Micheál Martin

The Labour Party did not want to go into government because it was watching you. You are both watching each other. You are both nervous of each other, so therefore you did not come forward.

Sinn Féin did not have the numbers to form a government-----

-----and Independent Ireland had some issues that we did not find agreement with but at least its members came in and engaged with us in a substantive way. The Regional Independent Group said they wanted to support and facilitate the formation of a government.

That is not new, by the way. That is not new.

This has been a feature of our fragmented system.

Our electoral system has in recent times and will in the future create a fragmented result. The danger in what the Opposition is saying is-----

Say after the next general election in five years' time, a potential government is short three or four TDs. Why would three or four Independent TDs volunteer to facilitate the formation of a government?

Why would they?

Why would they do that if it meant-----

-----that the rest of the Opposition said, "We are going to deny you your rights as TDs if you dare facilitate and support the Government". Looking at it from my perspective-----

-----and from a constitutional perspective, it is quite an extraordinary thing you are trying to do here which will actually-----

-----undermine any potential for the formation of a government into the future.

You are now basically saying that no Independent in the future-----

You are not a leader yet, Deputy.

I did not get a chance to finish what I was saying.

Westminster.

Deputies, I am making the point in answer to the question - in fairness the Deputy has asked questions and I think I should be allowed the right to answer but other Deputies do not want me to because they do not like the answer.

What I would say to you is this; in the future, for example, there could be three or four TDs who could facilitate the formation of a Government. What the Deputy is now saying is that Independent TDs in the future attempting to facilitate the formation of a Government will have their rights diminished. That is the essence of the Opposition proposal.

Take Deputies McGrath and Nolan, for example, they are part of this group. They have voted against the Government three or four times already but the Deputy and others are taking it upon themselves to tell them they must be corralled in a certain part of the Dáil and can only be allowed to do A, B and C. That is unconstitutional. You have no right to do that. You have absolutely no right to do tha…

Such hyperbole is really stretching it. The bottom line is this-----

------that three of the Opposition parties gain more time in terms of holding the Government to account. That is the factual position, as a result of 20 hours of discussions and so forth between the Chief Whip and the Whips of the other parties and also in terms of the committee on Dáil reform. That is the mechanism we have established in terms of the committee on Dáil Reform.

I say to the Deputy, from his perspective he is not losing any time.

You are not compared to the last Dáil, you are actually gaining time and that is the bottom line here.

This was raised earlier. If you compare Dáil Éireann to any other parliament in Europe, you will find the Opposition has more time than any other Opposition in any other parliament across Europe. Certainly in terms of Prime Ministers across Europe, no Prime Minister is in parliament more than the Irish Taoiseach is in Dáil Éireann. This can be checked out and looked at in terms of other parliamen…

-----with eight minutes on a Tuesday or on a Wednesday. All this row, about the dark days of Irish democracy, is about eight minutes extra on a Tuesday and eight minutes extra on a Wednesday-----