The specific allegations with respect of those who have made protected disclosures - I cannot interfere in a protected disclosure.
TDs / Micheál Martin
Micheál Martin
Taoiseach
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I cannot interfere.
The Deputy knows that. The Deputy has asked me to override, just now, the entire whistleblowers Act. That is what she has done.
What is she asking me, so?
The Deputy is trying to make it political-----
She is trying to land it-----
as she always does.
The Deputy is interfering again and interrupting me. This is what she always does. I think the first thing we should do-----
With the greatest of respect, if we had a bit more whistleblowing in Sinn Féin a long time ago, we would have all been better off.
But could I just make the point, I think the first thing that has to happen-----
No, sorry, it is not actually, but the first thing I want to say is we need to watch the programme this evening. I will watch it in its entirety. That is the first thing. I worked with previous whistleblowers. I worked with Maurice McCabe extensively, but I think it is important. It is also important to get a response from An Garda Síochána. What is An Garda Síochána's response to the programme this evening? That has…
The energy crisis is fundamentally a global, external situation in terms of war in the Middle East, particularly the war in Iran and now the situation in Yemen with the Houthis gaining control of key ports and potentially a key waterway. It is compounding what has happened in respect of the Ukraine crisis and the massive increase in inflation and energy prices that arose from that.
In the first instance, the scale o…
Of course it is immoral to exploit any emergency such as that we are experiencing right now. It is absolutely immoral for any part of the supply chain, be it a wholesaler, retailer or anybody else, to exploit the international crisis to extract more from people. In respect-----
Take it handy. There is no evidence that putting on a windfall tax would reduce any prices. We did it during the last crisis and prices did not reduce. However, its merit is in bringing some revenue back to the Government in terms of any windfall gains that were made. It does not have wide prevalence in respect of who in this country we could hit. We are not blessed with massive oil or energy companies. We also have …
The Deputy knows what happens when a protected disclosure is made. It does not go to the officeholder. It does not go to a Minister and it does not go to An Taoiseach. The Deputy knows that well. Why try to distort it? Let us get to the truth here; that is fine. It is reprehensible for any whistleblower to be intimidated or punished. I have no time for any of that. If the Deputy is serious about and honest in what sh…
That is dishonest politics.
I have not seen the programme and I have not met the whistleblowers. The Deputy has.
Of course, and here we go again. Let us change the legislation because it is not tenable that we - all of you, with Government - put into law that we have to have confidentiality around the process. That gets broken in certain ways, whatever way you want and people might feel so frustrated that they have to.
I did and the legislation was changed subsequently. Whoever was in the Dáil in 2022 amended the legislation. It seems to me to be an untenable framework now where, on one hand, if a protected disclosure goes in, it is meant to be dealt with independently and separately from Government, which I think is proper actually. It is proper that there is not political interference one way or the other in a protected disclosur…
There absolutely are serious questions but, again, you have to differentiate clearly with regard to a protected disclosure. If a person makes a protected disclosure, it has to be investigated. Would the Deputy accept that? If it has to be investigated, Ministers cannot interfere-----
Ministers cannot interfere in the investigation of the protected disclosure. What the Deputy is really implicating and insinuating here is that Ministers should. She is basically saying Ministers should interfere.
Yes, the Deputies are. They are basically saying that the Minister should find-----
If the Deputies allow me to finish, what they are saying is the Minister should find out what is going on-----
Again, Deputy Kelly, shouting does not get you everywhere.
You tend to shout almost to prove the veracity of your case or your position.