Leaders’ Questions

Before I begin, I want to welcome to the Dáil the members of the Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition who are in the Gallery. Fáilte romhaibh go léir inniu. They come here at a deeply concerning moment for their community because a fresh application has been made for an Orange march along the Garvaghy Road in Portadown this Sunday. That is an issue that can reopen issues residents believed were settled for nearly three decades now. It is raising real fears, real concerns and renewed division and tension in that area. It should not be allowed to happen. Tá teaghlaigh atá ag obair faoi bhrú ollmhór ó gach treo. Tá na billí siopadóireachta ag ardú, tá costas tithíochta ag dul in airde ar ghnáththithe, agus tá costais breosla ag ardú go gasta. Anois díreach, agus muid ag tabhairt aghaidh ar an ngeimhreadh, tá billí leictreachais agus gáis ag ardú arís. Taobh istigh de choicís, tá SSE Airtricity, Bord Gáis agus Energia le gnáthbhillí leictreachais a ardú do níos mó ná milliún teaghlach. Tá géarghá le creidmheas leictreachais. An athróidh an Tánaiste a intinn agus gealltanas a thabhairt inniu go gcuirfidh an Rialtas €400 i gcreidmheasanna leictreachais ar fáil do theaghlaigh fud fad na tíre an gheimhreadh seo le déileáil leis na hardaithe praghais seo atá in ann dóibh? There is no doubt that people are being ripped off from every direction. The weekly shop, fuel and now electricity and gas prices are all going up and up. More and more of people’s hard-earned wages are being swallowed up just to cover the basics. In just 11 days' time, one day before the budget, there is going to be a wave of increases in electricity prices. SSE Airtricity will increase its prices, Bord Gáis will follow and Energia will follow after that. Together, these increases are going to affect 1 million households out there. For families using gas and electricity, the increase will be more than €300 a year. This is something the Tánaiste could have seen coming. At almost exactly the same time last year, energy suppliers were announcing increases and the Government was withdrawing energy credits from families. It did that despite the energy regulator warning that without those credits, arrears could increase significantly. The Government went against that warning, and that is exactly what happened. By February of this year, more than 300,000 electricity accounts were in arrears. The numbers were significantly higher than the previous year. By June of this year, more than 500,000 electricity and gas accounts combined were in arrears. We warned the Government that this was going to happen. We have consistently raised the issue of energy credits and the supports that families need. We have raised it over and over again. The Government simply does not understand the pressure that people are under. Now, we are back here again. Prices are rising and winter is coming. People want solutions. I cannot understand the Government’s hands-off approach to big energy companies that is allowing this to happen. It must intervene to help people. It must realise the scale of the problem that is out there. There is a solution. We have put forward the solution to the Government time and again. We have consistently called on it to deliver €400 in electricity credits this winter, and do the heavy lifting in terms of the solutions that Sinn Féin has put forward that would permanently see a reduction in electricity prices across the State. We have repeatedly called for these credits to be restored. Will the Tánaiste give any certainty to people today? They know that their electricity will increase in just 11 days' time. One million households out there are going to see nearly a double-digit increase. What certainty will the Tánaiste give them? Can he tell them that the Government decision to withdraw the energy credits has resulted in more people falling into arrears, which is a fact? Can he tell them he has learned that lesson and will now commit to them to introduce a €400 energy credit to help them pay these bills? Will he stop taking a hands-off approach while these big companies are ripping off their customers, left, right and centre?

First, I join with the Deputy in welcoming residents of the Garvaghy Road to Dáil Éireann today. I am very much aware of the concerns of residents in the area. I am also very much aware of the very painful and traumatic history in relation to that community and what they endured. I want to assure the Deputy that Government officials are monitoring the situation closely. Like him, I am mindful of the role of the Parades Commission. Again I very much welcome the residents to Dáil Éireann today. I am extremely conscious, as is the Government, of the pressure that people are under when it comes to energy costs and energy prices. I want to say to people in this country that help is on the way through the budget in 12 days' time. There are a number of issues that we are actively endeavouring to advance to provide assistance and certainty to people when it comes to energy, while also being honest with people that there is no government in the world that can absorb all of the impact of a global energy shock. There simply is not, and it would be untrue to suggest that there is, but there are things we can do and things we will do. The first is providing certainty in relation to excise for the winter period. I heard Deputy Doherty earlier this morning on a radio programme. Beyond weeks, certainty for the winter period on excise is something that we can and will provide. Second, looking at the issue of carbon taxation in terms of how it applies to certain products, the Deputy will recall that my officials did a piece of work in the summer through the Tax Strategy Group, and they published a paper in July, I think, which looked at the idea of different products and how they could potentially be considered in the context of carbon tax. I am particularly concerned by the home heating situation and the gas situation, which the Deputy referenced. Similarly, we have to be honest with people on this. There is a limitation to how much you can do on that without bringing yourself into a challenge with the European system, and we do not want to tip that balance wrong, but this is certainly something we are going to actively look at. Third, there are decisions we can make in terms of parts of our society and sectors within our economy that are most at risk of fuel poverty or most dependent on fuel. I am thinking of lower income households and those who qualify for the fuel allowance. The fuel allowance season will start on Monday, with more than a quarter of households in the country, 500,000 households, benefiting from that. I am also thinking of our farmers and hauliers, who are particularly dependent on fuel, and our supply chains are dependent on them. Fourth, we need to help households and businesses with the actions that they are already trying to take to reduce their electricity and energy bills. Whether it is through solar panels or retrofitting, we know households and businesses are doing things in the here and now, and we need to make it that bit easier for them to do that. Deputy Doherty will have heard the Minister for energy talk about his plans for a scrappage scheme for boilers, and there has been a significant and widespread welcome for that from experts this morning. In addition to this, the budget will need to be viewed in the round. There are certain measures we can take on the energy side. There will be a temporary package of measures in relation to energy, and the Deputy made some suggestions on that this morning. The composition of that is for the Government to decide in the days ahead. I would also say to people that they will need to look at the budget in the round. Families and businesses do not view things in the kind of Government Department or agency silos that this place sometimes discusses. They view this in terms of what it means for their families. If we can reduce the income tax burden and look at the challenges and costs that families face around childcare and the like, that too can help. In 12 days' time, the budget will be delivered. Energy will be a big part of the Government’s budgetary package but a cost-of-living theme will be weaving through all of the various levers at the disposal of the Government across a range of areas.

When I stood here this time last year, raising these questions with the Tánaiste, he was giving the same type of mantra: this would be a cost-of-living budget, and this had to be looked at in the round. People know their real-life experience in the last year. They feel worse off. They feel under more pressure. They have seen their grocery bills increase and their petrol, diesel and home heating oil increase. They have seen their rent increase. They have seen their mortgage increase. They have seen increases that the Government has brought forward in relation to student fees and other things that have put pressure on those families. They know the pressure that they are under. They are also looking at a government that is talking about billions of euro in surplus, and they are asking that some of that is used to support them now. We have put forward a proposal time and again to the Government. We told the Government that it was absolutely wrong to withdraw those energy credits. There is a direct connection between what happened in households right across the State and the decision the Government took. When it decided to end energy credits, more families fell into arrears - that is just fact. The Tánaiste can shake his head all he wants. Let me tell him the facts. In February of this year, 316,000 households were in arrears. In the previous year, it was fewer than 60,000.

That is a fact. The question I am asking is, will the Tánaiste commit to giving certainty to families and reintroducing energy credits to help people to pay their electricity bills?

Hear, hear.

The Deputy has been at this for a long time. A very long time, in fact. Let us not rewrite geopolitical history as to why energy prices have risen. It is not due to any decision taken in Dáil Éireann. It is because the Strait of Hormuz is closed. It is because there has been bombing of Iran.

It is not funny.

It is not funny. The Tánaiste should not laugh about it.

Neither the Deputy nor I took a decision. Let us not blow up the egos of people in this House. There is a geopolitical energy shock going on. It is the greatest energy shock in the history of the globe, according to the International Energy Agency. This has nothing to do with energy credits in the last domestic budget.

Of course it has. Does the Tánaiste think that taking away the energy credits did not have an impact?

If they made no difference, why did the Government introduce them?

Come on, Deputies.

May I answer the question?

That is just silly.

I know the Deputy likes to blame me for everything but the closure of the Strait of Hormuz is a stretch.

Nobody is blaming the Tánaiste for that.

That is what has happened with the global energy market. The Deputy asked whether the Government would use some of the surpluses to assist the people. We have the largest intervention in the European Union. It is eight times larger than the intervention in France.

That is one of the reasons, when we look at petrol and diesel prices across the European Union, that Ireland is not in the top ten. Help is on the way. There will be more help in 12 days.

Hear, hear.

I welcome everyone to the Public Gallery, and give a special welcome to the fifth and sixth class students. There are now more than 500,000 households in arrears on their gas and electricity bills. That number has never been higher and it is continuing to soar. Thousands of people all over the country are facing a cold and bleak winter and feel a rising sense of dread every single time a bill comes through their doors. Many of these people have never had problems paying bills before but now, despite scrimping and saving, they are simply unable to make their budgets go any further. At the same time as more people go into arrears on their bills, the profits of energy companies are booming. Just last week, the ESB announced its profits for the first half of the year: they were up by €100 million. Its CEO is in line for a pay hike of an eye-watering €161,000. This gives some indication of the bonanza that energy companies are enjoying. This is all happening while their very own customers are going cold. This is not sustainable, it is not fair and it is not right. It is time that the Government stopped hand wringing and actually did something about it. A windfall tax on the superprofits of energy companies needs to be introduced now to stop this immoral profiteering. This is money that could be used to provide support for those who need it most, a €400 targeted energy credit for low- and middle-income earners to give them some immediate relief from skyrocketing bills as they face into a very difficult winter. However, the budget needs to go much further than that. We all know that Trump caused the war in Iran and the global energy shocks that arose from it but it is the Government that has left households so exposed to these energy price shocks by failing to invest and to support them to become resilient and move away from fossil fuels. The Government has failed to invest in solar to the extent it should have. We should be front-loading investment in solar panels, which can be installed quickly and easily and bring costs down immediately. That would mean at least a saving of €450 on bills this year, next year and every year after. The Social Democrats have a solar for all plan that we are asking the Government to adopt. It would double the grants for solar panels, introduce a grant for battery storage and make solar panels free for households most at risk of fuel poverty. Finally, please roll out plug-in solar. That is what we need to see, namely, some ambition from this Government instead of the usual tinkering around the edges. Does the Tánaiste agree that it is immoral for energy companies to make windfall profits during an energy crisis? Will the Government introduce a windfall tax on their superprofits?

Will the Government introduce a €400 energy credit for low- and middle-income families and radically ramp up solar?

I join Deputy Whitmore in welcoming our constituents from Blessington Educate Together National School. It is good to have them all here. There are a couple of points I want to respond to. I believe there is significant merit in a windfall energy tax. This is not just me commenting on it, as I chaired a meeting on it in Dublin Castle last week with all of my European counterparts. We have tasked the European Commission with doing a body of work and reporting back to the Economic and Financial Affairs Council, ECOFIN - the meeting of European finance ministers - which will take place, from my memory, on the Thursday and Friday of budget week. It is best to approach these issues at a European level. That is how we approached it in the past when the Deputy will recall that we legislated for a framework and put in place a tax at the start of the Ukraine situation after the brutal, illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine. There are some companies that are benefiting very significantly from profits, not because they are enterprising or innovative, but just because the Strait of Hormuz is shut. Therefore, there is a compelling case. Working at a European level is important, but that is not a long-term comment. The Commission is due to report back to ECOFIN on the Thursday and Friday of budget week. Deputy Whitmore's party has put forward proposals on how to help people through this winter period and beyond with their energy costs. There will be an energy package in the budget. There will be some temporary measures to help people with the here and now and this winter. However, I agree that there also need to be some measures to help people more permanently. The details of that are for budget day but the Deputy heard the Minister for energy yesterday giving an indication of a number of proposals that he intends to bring forward on battery storage and a scrappage scheme for boilers. Quite frankly, we are seeing people go gangbusters on solar panels and electric vehicles, EVs. We see it in our own community and in the data that is coming through. However, we still need to see if there is more we can do to help accelerate that because people are trying to make decisions in the here and now in their own lives to reduce their bills. People are full of common sense. We need to make it as easy as possible for them to make those decisions too. There are things we need to do in the here and now. I know the Social Democrats also voted this way on temporary excise reductions and what we do on home heating. I would make the point that the fuel allowance is already a targeted energy support. It will kick off from next Monday. We accept that, going into this winter period, energy prices will probably be the number one concern on the minds of people in this country and we will come forward with a comprehensive package of measures in the budget in 12 days' time.

I thank the Tánaiste and I welcomed hearing the Minister talking about battery storage. It would have been better if the Government had not removed the battery storage grant in 2022 when Ukraine was invaded. That would have assisted. A lot of people have put in solar, but there are many hundreds of thousands of people who cannot afford to do it. It is those people who are really struggling. It is the low-to-middle-income earners who are finding it hard to move away from fossil fuels because they are not getting enough support from the Government. Rather than throwing good money hand over fist at these short-term, emergency, temporary measures that are incredibly costly and leave us with nothing to show for them at the end of the day, it would be better if all those billions of euro given in energy credits previously were actually doing their job and we did not have nearly 330,000 people in arrears on their electricity bills or 188,000 people in arrears on their gas bills.

They do not work. We need to insulate homes. That entails a long-term strategy and long-term investment.

I agree, and then I have a point of difference. I agree that there are lots of people out there who want to make the transition in their own lives and are still finding the gap too large. I was at the ploughing championships and met representatives of the Irish Farmers Association, IFA, in the IFA tent on this. Often, farmers are pitted against climate action but there are many farmers saying they want to put solar on their buildings and they need more support through the targeted agriculture modernisation scheme, TAMS. These are active issues we need to look at. We need to do both, though. We need to help with the here and now, too. I will say to people right across the country that the measures we help them with, albeit they are classified as temporary in terms of trying to somewhat suppress the growth in energy prices, have a positive inflationary effect on the economy. Officials and economists in my Department estimate that the measures we have put in place to help reduce energy prices somewhat with excise reductions and the like have not been wasted measures and have actually kept down inflation by approximately 0.6%. Officials and economists in my Department estimate that the measures we have put in place to help reduce energy prices somewhat, with the excise reductions and the likes, certainly have not been wasted measures but, rather, have actually kept down inflation by approximately 0.6%. When someone is shopping in the supermarket tonight with their basket of goods, that food would have cost approximately 0.6% more had we not taken these measures. We need to do both. However, I fully accept that we are facing the second energy shock in the European Union in half a decade and we need to transition much more quickly.

Energy costs are the absolute top priority for people across the country. The October budget in a couple of weeks’ time will be all about the cost of living. It has been a busy few weeks for the Tánaiste and his Cabinet colleagues. Two weeks to the budget and Simon’s sieve gets leakier by the day. There will be indexation of income tax bands and credits for PAYE workers but nothing to address the hit they took last year when working people were made to pay for tax cuts for diners and developers. There will be a fiver in the fuel allowance but no commitment yet to the extra four weeks again next year. There will be an extension of the cuts to excise on motor fuels and, as the Tánaiste has said time and again, something will be done to reduce the price of home heating oil. These measures will barely make a dent in the real costs for families. The Government seems only to be concerned with certain sectors of society - only some energy users and only some road users. Electricity and gas prices are already going up by at least 10%. Public transport fares are to rise by even more. The price of diesel and kerosene will rise further and it is oil and energy companies that are profiting massively off the crisis caused by Trump. Why is the Government not taking a comprehensive approach to energy affordability? The impact of higher oil prices is already feeding into higher inflation. Input costs for construction, transport, fertiliser and so on will lead to even higher food and housing costs next year. Wages will have to rise but the Government is turning its back, for example, on public sector workers. Families are really struggling with soaring grocery bills and unaffordable rents. They need to know the Government’s plan on energy costs. The Tánaiste needs to front up with them now. Last week, finance ministers from across Europe met with the Tánaiste. They gathered in Dublin. Six of them wrote to the Tánaiste a number of weeks ago in relation to taxing the windfall profits of power companies. A week on, where does the Government actually stand? I know what the Tánaiste said earlier but will this happen? We know that carbon tax will be paused again but consumers are getting the price signal of higher oil prices and that will change behaviour. What we are missing is the ring-fenced funds to help families who were hit the hardest. A windfall tax is needed to support households with targeted energy credits and to fund retrofitting. It could help to plug the carbon tax gap too. The energy crisis has been rolling on for months - in fact, it has been rolling on for years - and we need a proper plan. In May, the Minister for energy updated the Cabinet on progress from the national energy affordability taskforce. An action plan was supposed to be submitted to Government by the autumn - we have heard little of it since - focused on short, medium and longer-term measures to support households and businesses. That is all this Government seems to be doing. I have three questions. Has the Government received the energy affordability action plan and will it be published before the budget? Will it put an actual windfall tax on power companies and when? On behalf of families throughout the country, I have a very clear question: will the Government finally commit to a €400 targeted energy grant for families across the country?

I am slightly confused. On the one hand the Deputy is chastising me for talking about what might be in the budget and on the other he is asking me to give it all out today. Those two things are a little bit contradictory even for me to justify in my own mind. I certainly make no apology nor do I need any permission from the Opposition to talk directly to the people of Ireland about the Government's intentions and not allow those intentions to be misrepresented by the Opposition. I want the people of Ireland to know and will continue to communicate directly with the people of Ireland in relation to our budgetary plans, in relation to our plans to deliver on our programme for Government commitments about making sure work pays and that people who work hard in this county can get ahead and not just get by. We are going to make progress in areas like childcare and there will be a significant package of supports for energy in the budget in 12 days' time. I know we have this debate regularly and the Deputy will not be surprised to hear me say this but I want to say it again: when he says our packages to date have just supported parts of society or some sectors of the economy, I have to push back on that. The economic advice available to the Oireachtas through the chief economist to my Department is very clear that the package of measures we have put in place has suppressed inflation in the overall economy by 0.6%. A PAYE worker, even one who does not drive a car, is actually benefiting from a lower rate of inflation than we would have otherwise seen. There is a direct correlation between the commodity price and general inflation in the economy. I want to make that point. I also want to push back on the idea that we do not want to do a deal with public sector workers. We want to sit down with them and for work to pay in this country for everybody in the public and private sectors. We value the role and contribution of our public sector workers. We have constructive trade unions in this country. I said that to them directly this week. They played a big role in this country in the darkest economic days. We want to get around a table and have a conversation about a new public sector pay deal. On the Deputy’s three specific questions, I have received, I believe, or certainly I am aware of the content in relation to the national energy affordability taskforce report. There are a number of proposals there that Government will be able to advance and bring forward. I need to seek clarity from the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, as to his intention in relation to publication and the likes, and I do not wish to speak for him other than to say there is good work being done there. I am taking the constructive, genuine way in which the Deputy wants to see it and consider what might be there, so I will speak to Government colleagues in relation to that. On the issue of energy in general, the Deputy is asking me to clarify what will be in the package and whether there will be certain proposals. I accept and acknowledge that the Deputy has made constructive proposals too. The final composition of the energy tax package has not yet been decided by Government. It will be decided in advance of budget day. There will be some temporary measures to help in the here and now. The fuel allowance scheme, which is permanent, opens on Monday. I reiterate that for people watching. There also need to be more permanent measures in terms of how we can help people transition. We will consider all of the constructive ideas we have heard in this House in the composition of that. On the windfall energy tax, given that we hold the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, Ireland has to play an honest broker role in trying to get people around the table to see if there is a consensus or majority view. That is what we kicked off in Dublin Castle the last week. We asked the European Commission to do a body of work and report back to ECOFIN on Thursday week.

We know the decisions taken in last year's budget, where PAYE workers were simply ignored by this Government, have made things much more difficult for ordinary working families throughout the country to absorb even small increases in food and energy prices. The Government needs to make up for that in this budget. The Tánaiste knows that himself. In my view, that is a decision that will haunt this Government and its relationship with PAYE workers for the duration of its term. We know that energy costs will absolutely dominate the political discourse. It is what everybody is talking about on the streets, at football matches and in our offices and clinics. It is of huge concern. We cannot keep making up energy policy and interventions on the hoof. I ask again: why is the energy affordability plan we were told to expect by the autumn to enable us all to plan for the budget in a comprehensive way being hidden? Why is it being concealed? What is the Tánaiste's position on energy credits? He is prepared to tell the media what his view is on excise cuts, carbon tax, kerosene and VAT and so on, but not on energy credits. We need to know.

If you had come into Government when you had the chance, we would be able to tell you now.

I have direct responsibility in government for taxation policy, excise tax, and the application of tax on carbon. Therefore, when I am asked a direct question, I answer it. The issue in relation to energy credits and energy supports in general is a matter for the broader Government to consider in the round. I genuinely believe, and I think the Deputy does deep down too, that people are less concerned about the modality by which we help people and more concerned about help. What I am saying very clearly to people is there will be a number of ways we will endeavour to help people with the cost of living. They do not quite think in the way we think in this structured bureaucracy we work in, sometimes. They want to know if they are going to be helped to get through the winter, if they will have more of their take-home pay, if their childcare bill is going to come down and if somebody is going to do something in this global chaos of energy to try to suppress Ireland's exposure to it to some degree. The answer to all of those questions is "Yes". The Government will come forward with a range of measures. I acknowledge the constructive suggestions from some Opposition parties. We will take them on board. We will consider all of these in the round and we will bring forward an energy package on budget day, which is just 12 days away.

The Tánaiste has said budget 2027 will prioritise workers who get up early every morning, yet the hundreds of thousands of workers who get up early every morning to catch a bus, train or Luas find they are being targeted by the Government to pay more. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have made a choice. In the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, they have chosen now as a good time to hike up public transport fares - not by the rate of inflation, which is 3% or 4%, but by an average of 15%, and far more for some journeys. For example, standard fares in Limerick, Galway and Waterford are going up by 26% under the guise of simplification. Child rail commuter fares in Cork are actually increasing by 130% because of new rules around standardisation. For a short hop journey on Dublin Bus, the fare is rising by 33%. So what does that actually mean? It means that if you take the bus to and from work in Dublin city, you are paying an extra euro a day, an extra fiver a week, an extra 250 quid a year. That is a real impact on people's incomes at the best of times but to put that on people in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis is cruel. The Tánaiste has made a huge political play about the income tax changes that are due in the budget, which will deliver hundreds of euro to workers. Yet if those workers take public transport, he is going to reach into their pocket and take hundreds of euro back. Budget 2027 will punish people who take the bus to work. The only promise that commuters have to look forward to is that he is going to do it the same time again next year with another fare increase. All we are talking about is €70 million. If €70 million is provided to the NTA in this year's budget, it would remove the need for these public transport fare hikes. It would protect low-income workers from this hit. Why do the financial struggles of workers who take the bus and train not matter to the Government? It found the money to support motorists and hauliers when they needed it. In fact, it found 20 times the amount of money that would be needed to stop these fare hikes. Why is the same concern not being shown to people who take public transport? They are struggling too. They are struggling with the cost of energy. They are struggling with the cost of heating their homes and now, from January, they are going to be struggling with the cost of public transport as well. This is the Tánaiste's first budget as Minister for Finance. He should not use it to punish people who take the bus and train. He should provide €70 million extra to the NTA to stop these fare hikes. He should treat public transport users with the same concern as everybody else who gets up early.

I thank Deputy O'Gorman very much. I understand that nobody welcomes a fare increase but we are making a choice here to continue the progress that we have made in public transport because a low fare is no good if there is not a bus. There are a hell of a lot of parts of this country where people are still waiting for bus routes, Local Link services, and where people want to see the roll-out of a better public transport network. I can understand why Deputy O'Gorman says it that it would only cost this to do that - what he says is factually correct - but of course this to do that has to be seen in the context of the other things we need to do as well, which is to provide more bus routes and better public transport. We need to invest in more frequent and more reliable services, and in enough buses so that there is a bus when somebody goes to get the bus. The only factor is not the fare but sometimes whether a person will get a seat or if there is a route. There are parts of this country where public transport is still very much in its infancy and we need to invest significantly in that as well. There is a context to this. Fares will still be approximately 8% lower than they were eight years ago. That is at a time when the cost of running the services has increased significantly too - that needs to be factored in - and when the network is expanding. The State is increasing its contribution to public transport substantially. It will continue to do so. That should not be dismissed. We are also maintaining a number of other things, some of which the Deputy and I worked on in the previous Government. Free travel for kids aged under nine will remain in place. Children do not pay for public transport in Ireland under the age of nine, which is something we introduced in the previous Government. There are 50% young adult and student fares as well. The companion pass has been expanded to everyone over the age of 70 who can now bring someone with them on public transport for free as well. Crucially, we are going to roll out 140 new and improved services. The fare money is going directly back in to more routes and enhanced routes too, so people using public transport will see the benefits of that too. Deputy O'Gorman did the thing that lots of people in this House do. Deputy Nash did it a moment ago. "Why do you like the motorists?" We have got to stop doing this. This is deliberately ignoring the economic facts available to this House, as is the House's right, but it is not a very honest thing to do. The advice available to the Government, economically, is that the measures we have taken to reduce fuel prices have helped suppress inflation in the Irish economy by an average 0.6%. Therefore, the person getting the bus, train or Luas has benefited in terms of the inflation in our country being around 0.6% lower. They have benefited from that decision when they have gone into the shop. We should not try to ask: "What about the motorist versus the person getting the bus? What about the person in rural Ireland versus urban Ireland?" The decisions that we have taken have had a positive impact on suppressing inflation growth in this country.

When the NTA came before us in the transport committee last Wednesday, it was very clear that this fare increase is not about delivering extra services next year; this is about providing the exact same level of service this year as last year. Public transport users are getting nothing extra.

They are wrong.

That is what they told us. That is what they said. The Tánaiste says they are wrong. None of the 145 extra routes he is talking about are funded. Again, that is all conditional on decisions coming up before the budget. The NTA did tell us the consequence of this decision. It is 4.5% fewer passengers using public transport next year. That is going to be the consequence and the legacy. The Tánaiste is right: this is about choices and priorities. In the previous Government, the Green Party chose to reduce fares and deliver more services. The Government is choosing to hammer public transport users.

Deputy O'Gorman is continuing his dogma of trying to pit one part of society against the other. The Government has to do more than one thing at a time. We have to continue to improve public transport and we make absolutely no apology for trying to help people in terms of excise cuts. If it was up to Deputy O'Gorman, he would not reduce the cost of petrol or diesel. In fairness, unlike some, he is very honest in relation to that. We believe people, including in his constituency, need assistance in the here and now as well. The reason the NTA is wrong is that it is not the sovereign Government of this country. We are. What the sovereign Government of this country will do in 12 days' time is provide clarity in relation to public transport funding for 2027. What I am telling the Deputy is we have made a decision that the fare changes that are being brought about by the NTA, which are effective from next year, will result in a sustainable level of funding that will enable us to significantly expand public transport routes in this country. The people have not chosen the Deputy to be in government. He is not going to misrepresent the record of this Government.