Child Poverty

3. Deputy Louise O'Reilly asked the Minister for Social Protection the assessment he has made of the recent findings on child poverty (details supplied); whether he considers that the current system of income supports is sufficiently targeted at families experiencing poverty and deprivation; the changes he believes are necessary to ensure that children in the most disadvantaged households benefit from rising household incomes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [67549/26]

The ESRI findings on child poverty are a pretty damning indictment of the statements the Minister and the Government make. I think we will find it very hard to disagree with that. I am interested to know whether the Minister accepts the ESRI findings and its statement that "the Government is very far from meeting its target with regard to reducing child poverty". Rhetoric is one thing, and to be fair to the Minister's boss he is very big on that, but actual delivery is another. The statistics do not bear out what the Minister says in this Chamber. It does not seem to be translating. I want to know specifically whether the Minister accepts the ESRI findings. Does he accept that child poverty is rising?

I thank the Deputy. I welcome the publication of the ESRI report and the focus it puts on child poverty. The focus is very much aligned with mine and the Government's, including my boss, which includes the reduction in child poverty as one of his top priorities. Our determination to deliver this priority has been reflected in a number of major measures, which I have just discussed with Deputy Hayes but I will reiterate them for the House. We have significant increases in the targeted payments, namely, the working family payment and child support payment. That includes 26% in the over-12 child support payment in 2026, which followed on from a 15% increase in the 2025 payment. We have made successive increases of €60 per week in the working family payment threshold and, as I said, we have expanded access to the fuel allowance for nearly 50,000 families who are in receipt of the payment. These increases are in addition to the expansion of the hot school meals programme, the introduction of the free school books programme and the provision of free GP care for children. In the context of my Department, the total value in budget 2026 alone was €320 million. Many of these measures have not yet been reflected in the survey on income and living conditions, SILC, data on which much of the ESRI report is based. However, I note that while there has been an increase in the number of people living at home at risk of poverty, the core measure for consistent poverty, which is favoured by many advocacy groups, has improved. It was at 7.8% in 2025, down from 8.5% in 2024. That is too high and I am focused on driving that down. There are a number of proposals within the ESRI report. The proposal for a two-tier payment, which we just discussed, differs from the proposal contained in the 2025 edition of the report. That indicates that this is a complex challenge. It is complex to get a new payment structure that reaches more families at risk of poverty without disadvantaging those who are already in receipt of existing claims. We had 270 submissions in response to our public consultation and we will be including the work of the ESRI. We will be engaging with the committee in relation to this. My most important work here is to ensure that we do not disadvantage families by moving to a different model.

I do not think the measure the Government uses for poverty will in any way interfere with the people who are living with material deprivation. I genuinely think they do not care what metric the Government chooses to measure it by because they are in poverty. The ESRI tells us very clearly that there is a rise. Some 17.4% of children are living below the poverty line. After housing costs, that goes to 22.7%. In fact, we are going in the wrong direction when it comes to child poverty. That is not a failure of the systems that are used to measure it. With the greatest of respect, that is a failure of the Government and the gap between what the Minister says he wants to do and what he actually does. The Minister has spoken repeatedly about a second tier of child benefit. That is something he should look at because the families of those children living in those homes need in-cash transfers to be able to get themselves out of poverty. Rather than quibble about those figures from the ESRI, the trend, no matter what way we measure it, is only going in one direction. That speaks to the fact that there is a gap between what the Minister said and what the reality is and that gap is widening, not closing.

We also look at the measurement of consistent poverty. That is taken from the Central Statistics Office's, CSO’s, indicator of consistent poverty. Our child poverty target is based on the CSO figures. The CSO's Survey on Income and Living Conditions, SILC, 2025 showed a decrease in consistent poverty from 8.5% to 7.8%. It also showed an increase in children experiencing enforced deprivation from 21.2% in 2024 to 19.6% in 2025. The social protection measures in budget 2025 and budget 2026 are not captured in those figures because there is a lag in terms of how those figures are measured. We are again in negotiations with the Department of public expenditure for a substantial child poverty package in the context of budget 2027. They are in addition to the school meals programme - which, for a family with up to two children, can save up to €1,100 per year - the schools books programme and various other initiatives that are under way under other Departments. We are very focused on this. We are seeing progress. Is it quick enough? No, absolutely not. The second-tier payment will be part of that. I reiterate that some of those who are promoting models that are being discussed and endorsed at the moment would leave families on lower incomes worse off. We cannot allow that situation.

I do not think the Minister is in any danger of leaving people worse off just because he thinks the measurement might be off. With the greatest of respect, I think that is a bit of a nonsense argument. The Minister can see the trend and what way it is going. I do not want to get into an argument because there are people at home who, God love them, might be watching this wondering what we are talking about. This is about child poverty, yet they would see the Minister and me arguing about the figures. The measurement the ESRI gives us is a very important one, as is the fact that it gives its own narrative opinion, which is that the Government is very far from meeting its target. This is a fact. The ESRI is a very respected institution. Its estimation of what the Government and the Minister's Department are doing is that they are very far from meeting their target. There seems to be a huge gap between talking about an additional rate of child benefit and doing it. I sincerely hope the Minister does not wait until just before the next election before rolling out a package because people, and children in particular, need that support now.

I can assure the Deputy that we are not just talking. I reiterate the changes in last year's budget in the context of the child support payment, which included a record increase, particularly for over-12s, the full expansion of the hot schools meals programme and the expansion of the fuel allowance to working family payment recipients, with 50,000 extra families entitled to the fuel allowance. They will all make a difference on those figures. Yes, the ESRI is respected. I listen to it and I value its opinion but when I look at the figures from the Central Statistics Offices, CSO, which has access to live figures and detailed information, they are showing us going in the right direction in terms of a reduction from 8.5% to 7.8%, and from 21.2% in 2024 with regard to children in forced deprivation to 19.6%. All of that is happening in the context of a growing population. Is it fast enough? Absolutely not. That is why we continue to direct resources and time and inject energy into this. The consultation in relation to the second-tier payment has given us a lot of food for thought, with over 220 submissions that will be seriously considered. I will engage with the joint committee on these and we will bring clarity to this a lot quicker than the timeline I just outlined.