Other Members’ Questions

Ba mhaith liom inniu ceann de phríomhchuspóirí oideachais an chláir Rialtais a ardú; is é sin an gealltanas an cóimheas dalta agus múinteora a laghdú agus plé a dhéanamh ar an deis atá ann tús a chur leis an ngealltanas sin a chomhlíonadh i mbuiséad 2027. I wish to discuss one of the key educational commitments of the programme for Government, specifically the one to reduce the general pupil-teacher ratio in primary schools to 19:1. The opportunity afforded to Government to contribute to fulfilling that commitment should be utilised as part of budget 2027. As I said, the commitment aims to bring the general pupil-teacher ratio down to 19:1 over the lifetime of the Government and it is time we started looking at that given that we are now in the second budget of five of this Government. The primary staffing schedule furnished to schools for this current academic year, 2026-27, advised schools that they will operate on the basis of a general average of one classroom teacher for every 23 pupils. We know that there are schools where there are children in classes of greater size. Yesterday I spoke to a parent of a child in senior infants where there is a class of 29. While the trend is going in the right way, Department of education statistics highlight that in the last academic year some 39,000 school children were in classes of 30 or more. I acknowledge there are local-based factors that contribute to that and it is not all simply down to the primary teaching schedule. However, in comparing 23:1, as it is for the next academic year, and 19:1, where we hope to get to, we have some distance to travel in the fulfilment of the commitment. I think everyone can appreciate the benefit to a pupil's learning to be in a class of a smaller size. My own professional experience was that within the schools where I was privileged to work, wherever we encountered a challenge in the progression of a pupil, be that an academic challenge, behavioural challenge, social challenge or communicator challenge, the best resource that we could make available to try to meet those challenges and to work with the pupil was to increase discrete pupil-teacher time. That is at a premium and it is at even more of a premium when we consider the broadened curriculum, the new curriculum framework that is going to introduce new subjects. This is an issue that is pressing and pending. Schools are inundated with people selling online tools, schemes and programmes to try to help with the issues that pupils encounter. However, without a shadow of a doubt, all of those fall into insignificance when compared with the progress that can be made by providing additional discrete pupil-teacher time. The Minister will be aware that more children are undergoing NEPS and, indeed, non-NEPS psychological assessment. The outcomes of these assessments are generally the formation of a report where a number of recommendations will be provided to the class teacher that they should incorporate into their teaching for the benefit of a specific pupil. It is simply impossible for a teacher to do that when they are teaching a class of 25 or 26 pupils. The issue is pressing. It is a commitment of the programme for Government and I hope that we will start to try to fulfil that commitment in the upcoming budget.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. At the outset, I commend the fantastic job that all of the teachers and staff within our schools do. While I take the opportunity whenever I can in my role, particularly last year as Minister for education, I had an opportunity to travel right around the country to meet with many teachers, SNAs, secretaries, principals, caretakers and assistants - everybody who plays a significant role in the education of our children. The work they do is absolutely phenomenal and I want to acknowledge that here. That is why Government is investing a record €14.1 billion in education and the intention very clearly is to continue that investment. We can look at the number of people employed in our schools, which is important for the question the Deputy has asked. Teacher numbers at primary level increased by almost 6,000 between 2019 and 2025. We have seen a massive increase in the number of teachers who have been employed. During that time, we also saw a massive increase in the number of SNAs and the number of assistants who have been employed. Over 24,000 are now teaching in our schools, supporting our teachers and most importantly supporting our children as well. In terms of the overall staffing schedule and the overall ratio, based on that investment we have gone from 26:1 five years ago down to 23:1 for the current school year. When the number of SNAs and assistants within a classroom is taken into account, it brings the overall number down. At the same time, I appreciate that for some classrooms the numbers are much higher. I appreciate that for some schools, while they might be around the average, some classes are much higher and we want to try to bring the numbers down as quickly as possible or in the most stable way possible. There is a clear commitment within the programme for Government that we would bring that 21 number down to 19 and it is a commitment that we have said we will reach within the lifetime of the Government. The Minister for education will obviously be engaging with the Minister for public expenditure and reform. How that is decided and what priorities are set this year are matters for the Minister, but I know that she will be seeking to get as many resources as possible and to provide as much support as possible to our teachers and importantly to our children as well. As the Deputy knows, we have more favourable ratios implemented for the DEIS urban band 1 schools. We have again seen the highest level of investment in our DEIS schools, making sure that those who need our help the most, particularly because of perhaps their family background, because of where they are from or because of instances that have happened in their lives, are provided with as much support as possible. I fully agree with the Deputy. My own little man went off to school this year and I see the impact that a teacher can have on the environment in a classroom. That can have a long-lasting impact on a child, whether they like school, whether they want to go to school, the dynamic in the classroom, but also how they learn and how that then sets them up for later in life. We need to do what we can do to reduce the numbers to provide as much class time as possible between students and their teachers, their SNAs, their assistants. That is our objective and our goal. It is why the money allocated to education has increased and why I hope in this year's budget we will see a further increase again.

The last point the Minister made is relevant today in particular. This morning, we heard and read of a new ESRI study produced in partnership with Tulsa that highlights that school attendance rates are dropping. In recent years, we have seen a decline and it is pertinent that there is concern about that. In schools with higher levels of disadvantage, attendance rates are not as good as in schools that do not have that same level of disadvantage. However, it is important to point out that there is a level of deprivation in every school. Certainly, in DEIS and DEIS plus schools, there is a greater concentration of that deprivation but all schools have pupils whom staff will recognise as being deprived. As the Minister pointed out, one of the things that increases the chance of that child attending school is a good relationship between the pupil and the teacher. That is easier to build when there are fewer pupils with whom the teacher has to work. That is a very pertinent point the Minister made. The Minister is right in saying that in recent years the Government has significantly increased the number of teachers. They have not all been applied in the mainstream setting, and I am talking specifically about the mainstream setting. We have also seen an increase in the diversity of pupil profiling and an increase in pupil needs. It is important that we try to achieve that 19:1 ratio and that we start to work on that as soon as possible.

I fully agree there are lots of things we need to focus on to make sure children are going to, staying in and progressing in school. When I was Minister of the Department, following on from the work of the previous Minister, Deputy Foley, before me and work the Minister, Deputy Naughton, is now carrying on, there was an action plan put in place specifically looking at attendance and how we can ensure children come to school, particularly where the levels within DEIS bands and primary schools were increasing at an astronomical rate. I think one in four was missing more than 20 days throughout the year, not including weekends and bank holidays and everything in between. There is a huge amount of work we need to focus on to ensure children are going to school and that parents are supported. In particular, for those who need that extra bit of help, the hot school meals are essential to that. It is making sure children have food and are able to focus and concentrate in school. The books we have introduced take an additional cost off of parents when they start school or at the beginning of any year. We also provide funding and supports to make sure uniforms can be bought, that the resources can be provided and that schools can get what they need. I appreciate that is something else in the budget that we need to keep increasing to ensure schools have the resources they need. Again, I appreciate there is a lot of work we want to be able to do, but we have fantastic schools and teachers in this country. Our objective as a Government has to be to continue to invest in both.