2025-12-18

176. Deputy Pearse Doherty asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance the engagement he has had with other members of the Government in relation to defective concrete block scheme since taking office, including to ensure that all victims of the defective concrete products scandal are treated as equal citizens and are able to access financial products and services on the same basis as everyone else; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [73164/25]

Since taking office, what engagement has the Minister had with his Cabinet colleagues and the Central Bank to ensure all victims of the defective blocks scandal are treated as equal citizens and can access financial products and services on the same basis as everyone else? I ask this because the State's response to this crisis continues to be characterised by unfairness. If you live in Donegal, where I acknowledge the Minister has visited, you will know that families have been failed by the Government in such an unbelievable way. What the families face again this Christmas is horrible. What engagement has Deputy Harris, as Minister for Finance, had with his colleagues or the Central Bank?

I thank the Deputy. On an addendum, he raised with me on Report Stage of the Finance Bill a specific issue in relation to rental properties and their availability in Donegal. I undertook to engage with the Minister for housing on that. I sent him the information from our discussion and I will be engaging with him in January. I am happy to talk to the Deputy further about this. I am aware that this is a very difficult situation for homeowners. I do not need to tell the Deputy, of all people, about the many homes affected. The current and previous Governments have tried to step up and provide support to many households affected by defective concrete blocks, and this is reflected in the increased funding for the scheme in recent years. As the Deputy is aware, the overall Government response to problems associated with defective concrete blocks is led by my colleague, the Minister for housing. His Department is engaging with impacted households and relevant stakeholders and administering financial supports to help affected homeowners. The Department of housing has engaged with Banking and Payments Federation Ireland, BPFI, to emphasise the need for a fair and consistent approach by the banking sector in supporting customers with distressed mortgage payments caused by defective concrete blocks in their homes. I am due to meet BPFI early in the new year and I too will raise this issue with it. On the issue of access to financial products and services, the existing consumer protection regulatory framework fully applies to all consumers, including those whose homes are affected by defective concrete blocks. Lenders are strongly encouraged to engage constructively with homeowners affected by defective concrete blocks and assist them where possible in accessing the State redress scheme and remediating their homes. In particular, the Central Bank's consumer protection code requires all regulated entities to act with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers and without prejudice to the pursuit of their legitimate commercial aims. It does not, through its policies, procedures or work practices, prevent access to basic financial services. I will raise this issue at my next monthly engagement with the Governor of the Central Bank. If the Deputy wants to send me on any specific information in advance of that, I will be happy to consider it.

The banking and insurance focus group is doing tremendous work. In fairness to BPFI, it has really engaged with it and included other organisations such as Insurance Ireland, valuers and so on. The Department of housing has refused to engage with them, which is ridiculous, to tell the truth. They should be part of the working group, as should other Departments. These are very serious people who are working through issues like the mortgageability of houses. Houses remediated through the existing scheme are not mortgageable because the authorities will not sign off on them. The group made up of the parties I have referred to has made a submission on the new standards for defective concrete blocks, raising serious concerns. There are other issues also and they are major. I welcome what the Minister for Finance said about the Minister for housing, but what is really at the core of this is whether the Minister for Finance actually believes there are people in my constituency and elsewhere who, even with whatever support the State has given, have to find up to €80,000 to build the exact same house that has to be demolished because of defective blocks. If so, how does he feel it is fair?

I believe people. I believe them when I meet them. I believed them when I sat in their kitchens in the Deputy’s constituency and county. They have told me about some of the issues they are still experiencing regarding shortfalls, anomalies or issues with banks. They raised some of those issues with me quite truthfully when I was in Donegal, which I believe, from memory, was during the month of August. We are trying as a Government to continue to respond and evolve the scheme. We are seeing an increased uptake. That is also factually true. I do not like to hear from the Deputy that a Department is not engaging, because we need to continue to engage on this. The distress, worry and fear are real. There are other issues I have been trying to address through a variety of roles, including in respect of preschool facilities in the Deputy's constituency. There is one in Raphoe, as he will know. It is trying and there has to be a way forward in respect of this. I accept that we need to continue to work and engage on this further. I am pleased to hear that BPFI engagement has been good. I will still list this as an agenda item for my meeting with it in January. I am also happy to discuss the role of Central Bank of Ireland when I meet in January.

BPFI has been engaging for nearly two years now and it has done a huge amount. These are very serious people. The Minister mentioned the childcare facilities that I have raised with him. There are three childcare facilities that are community run. The Minister has been talking about State-run childcare facilities and all the rest but the three community childcare facilities in question – in Letterkenny, Raphoe and Ardara – are in buildings that are falling down. The one in Raphoe is already gone because the children are not safe in the building. With regard to the other two cases, it is just ticking away. There is no scheme to replace those facilities. Kids and parents depend on them. There are 12 schools in Donegal with buildings that are going to fall down. There are cracks and you can put your hand through some of them. There is no scheme at present, although the Department is going to inspect the buildings. Over 80 council houses in Donegal that should have families in them this Christmas are lying empty because they have defective blocks. There is no scheme to fix them. There are people going through the scheme but these are the people who have had to find €80,000, €90,000 or €100,000, and in some cases more. There are so many others who simply cannot do this. What does the Minister think is going to happen to them? He might know them. People of pension age have only their pensions. They do not have €70,000 or €80,000 to make up the shortfall. No matter what grant the Government provides, they cannot rebuild their homes under this scheme.

The Minister for housing, Deputy Browne, confirmed for me recently that Fingal County Council will be admitted to the defective concrete block scheme, which is very welcome. However, I need to highlight that a small number of very good, prudent homeowners in Skerries, Lusk and The Naul have already remediated their homes and consequently will not now be eligible to be supported under the scheme. I would very much appreciate it if the Minister for Finance worked with the Minister for housing to ensure those people, who were prudent and put themselves through financial hardship to ensure their homes would be safe and remediated, are not unfairly treated and disadvantaged because Fingal County Council is only now being admitted to the scheme?

Let me reflect on what Deputy Doherty said. While some of this is not within my direct remit, I am a leader in government and am not recused from responsibility. My sense from engaging with people in Donegal and other parts of the country is that the scheme is now working for more people than it was but that there are still some who have significant concerns that they cannot access the scheme, and that there are other areas, beyond privately owned homes, where people are still asking how they will resolve the issue. Up until now, the approach has been for the line Department to work its way through this, but we are going to need to give a more considered response as to how we proceed. Let me reflect on it. I will be happy to engage online or offline on this. I am pleased to hear that Fingal County Council will now be included in the scheme. That is a source of welcome relief for people in Deputy Boland's county and constituency. I will engage with the Minister, Deputy Browne, on those homeowners in Skerries, Lusk and The Naul who have already remediated their homes. I do not want to make any commitments because I am not across the detail but I will certainly talk to the Minister, Deputy Browne, and revert to Deputy Boland.

I welcome the women from Graiguenamanagh Women's Shed to the Visitors Gallery. I hope they have a lovely visit. I had better crack on now before I get cancelled.

Are they the Chair's people? Hello to them.

No.

Mine.

I will never be asked to chair again.