2026-05-13

There is a lot of talk at the minute and a shared desire across all sides of this House to ensure we invest in our Defence Forces. The Defence Forces have been profoundly neglected and that needs to be addressed. As far as I am concerned, Ireland should be strong in neutrality and strong in defence; both things go together. We hear a lot of big announcements from the Minister but, unfortunately, the reality is that big talk is not going to put feet inside the barracks door. Referring back to the last debate the Minister of State had on the various targets being set and Government's desire to hit those targets, the reality is there is not a hope in the wide earthly world that the Defence Forces will meet the target of 11,000 permanent personnel by 2028. That is under level of ambition 2. It is not going to be reached. At the minute, we are almost 4,000 personnel short of that. There is not a hope that this gap will be made up. We will be lucky to reach the established strength of 9,400. We will be extremely lucky to hit that target. There is not a hope we are reaching 11,000. The reality is that for all the big announcements and so on, the ultimate test of whether we are going to be able to recruit and retain enough personnel is whether we are showing enough respect for the greatest asset of the Defence Forces, that is, the men and women of the Defence Forces. Against the backdrop of these big announcements, the European Committee on Social Rights has found that the Irish Government is in breach of the European Social Charter because of failing to implement the working time directive. The central point of that is that the Irish Government is refusing still to define what the working day is and what it means in terms of hours and duties. It keeps telling us this is complex but it has been dealing with it for years. If you refuse to define what the working day is, that has obvious implications for ensuring that overtime is counted, recorded and paid. We can go through the findings of the European social committee in relation to this, which found against the Irish Government. There are serious issues in respect of rest periods, ensuring that men and women in the Defence Forces get the daily rest period they are entitled to, that the average working time including overtime is not meant to exceed 48 hours, as well as various other issues. This is ultimately leading to Defence Forces personnel not getting enough payment for the work they are doing. They are being underpaid for their overtime. There are also very simple things that could be resolved in respect of when people are in barracks and on rest periods. Basic things such as gym equipment, TV subscriptions and Wi-Fi are meant to be in place in all of these 24-hour duty locations. They are simple things that the Government could easily resolve at very limited cost. These items need to be addressed. There has been some progress on the implementation of the working time directive, but until the working day is defined, until we get to grips with that, and the Government has been dealing with it for over three years, we are still going to have issues of people being underpaid and their overtime not being recognised. This is leading to Defence Forces personnel not feeling valued. They are working in challenging circumstances, with very lengthy periods of work and lengthy and onerous periods of duty. If they are not shown the respect they ought to be in ensuring this is properly compensated, this will contribute to the recruitment and retention crisis that continues in the Defence Forces.

I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter. The Minister for Defence is at the annual PDFORRA delegate conference today. Bringing the Defence Forces within the remit of the Organisation of Working Time Act has been a key issue for the Defence Forces representative associations for a number of years. The inclusion of the Defence Forces under the Organisation of Working Time Act required careful consideration and extensive consultation in getting here and recognises the unique nature of the work carried out by our Defence Forces members. A particular consideration was of course those military activities which, due to their nature, continue to be exempt from the Act. As the Deputy will be aware, it is over 12 months now since the blanket exemption from the Organisation of Working Time Act for Defence Forces personnel was removed in January 2025, and the majority of Defence Forces personnel now enjoy the protections of the Act, including daily and weekly rest and maximum weekly working time over a 17-week period. I have mentioned that, due to their specific nature, a number of military activities continue to be exempted from the provisions of the working time directive. However, it is important to point out that a number of health and safety protections for those involved in such tasks have been agreed, including prescribed compensatory rest periods, which are now incorporated into Defence Forces regulation. This body of work is rightly seen as a significant step forward in the extensive transformational journey already well under way in the Defence Forces. A range of additional health and safety measures were also agreed, with a number of them already implemented, including the provision of one return commercial home-reunion flight to Ireland in respect of an operational tour of duty of six months, where the security assessment by the military authorities determines that the individual cannot avail of leave in-theatre. In addition, enhanced Wi-Fi services in UNIFIL have been put in place. Upon the removal of the blanket exemption last year, the Chief of Staff was clear in communicating the responsibilities of Defence Forces management on the implementation of all aspects of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 across the entire Defence Forces. This included ensuring that commanding officers are fully aware of their management responsibilities with regard to both activities coming within the scope of the directive, and for those activities which are exempt. Military management is continuing to progress the implementation of a number of remaining health and safety protections and a Defence Forces working group has been convened for this purpose. Some of those measures requiring additional funding beyond existing resources are to be addressed in line with the normal Estimates process. The military authorities have advised that in the intervening months, numerous briefings have been undertaken across the Defence Forces in addition to the availability of an instructional video. In addition, an instruction document from the Chief of Staff providing guidance to commanders and their personnel on all aspects of the implementation process, coupled with the Defence Forces' non-financial labour budget system, which is now in place, both provide important management tools in ensuring that the provisions of the directive are correctly applied. The Defence Forces are also leading on the development and implementation of a permanent electronic time and attendance system which is expected to be in place later this year. In the meantime, an interim time and attendance system has been put in place. I am assured that all necessary measures are being taken to ensure the protections of the working time directive are implemented fully on the ground. In that context, the working time directive subcommittee through the conciliation and arbitration scheme continues to meet on a regular basis. Using this forum, any issues which have arisen which pertain to the practical implementation on the ground of the protections set out in the directive have been brought to the attention of the Defence Forces management.

The Minister of State will be aware that the Defences Forces are a significant part of the life of Cork city. I believe it is similar in his own county. Many personnel are stationed in Haulbowline, Collins Barracks and even in Kilworth in Liam Lynch camp. When I talk to people in the Defence Forces, they see a huge discrepancy and a gap between the kind of ambition that the Minister talks about and the manner in which the Defence Forces operate. They say the same that I have said, that the men and women of the Defence Forces are the greatest asset the Defence Forces have. They see a huge gap between that rhetoric and the reality on the ground. There are some positive elements in the Minister of State's response but it still does not really nail down that key issue. When are we going to get a clear definition of the working day? How are we going to ensure that overtime is properly paid? If people are going to leave their families and their responsibilities at home, and be on campus for 24 hours or more, they deserve to properly compensated. They deserve that respect. That is what they would get in other jobs. They recognise that this is not the same as any other job. Of course there will be extenuating circumstances. However, there has to be a definition for what is appropriate overtime and how that is paid. Those issues in terms of on-campus are easy fixes. None of them are very expensive. I also want to briefly raise an issue that has come out of the PDFORRA conference. We wish the delegates the best in their deliberations and I am looking forward to attending later this evening. More than 6,000 personnel are waiting to be paid €3.7 million under claims under local bargaining agreements. Those are agreements already made, reached and owed. The Department of Defence and the Defence Forces are backing the personnel in relation to this. Some senior technicians are owed up to €5,000 each. About 6,000 personnel are down money because the Department of public expenditure has refused to honour agreements that are already made. In the same vein and out of respect for the Defence Forces, will the Minister of State raise the need to release those funds with the Department of public expenditure?

I thank the Deputy for raising the issues he has raised. I am sure the Minister, Chief of Staff and management of the Defence Forces are following this discussion very closely. Any of the outstanding issues which the Deputy has raised and indeed any of the issues which will be raised at today's delegate conference will receive maximum attention over the coming weeks and months.

Will you bring it back to the Department of public expenditure?

I will.