2026-05-20

I move amendment No. 1: In page 7, between lines 25 and 26, to insert the following: “Insertion of section 12B in Principal Act 8.The Principal Act is amended by the insertion of the following section after section 12A: “Exchange of public service data 12B.(1) A person specified in subsection (2)— (a) may, where he or she considers that it is necessary and proportionate for the performance of his or her functions pursuant to this Act, request any other such person to supply him or her with such information as the first-mentioned person may reasonably require for the purposes of those functions, (b) shall, if her or she receives a request under paragraph (a), as soon as practicable thereafter comply with the request in so far as the information requested is in his or her possession (c) may, of his or her own volition, disclose to any other such person information the disclosure of which appears to the first-mentioned person to be necessary and proportionate for the performance by the other person of his or her functions pursuant to this Act. (2) The persons referred to in subsection (1) are: (a) the Authority; (b) the Health and Safety Authority; (c) an inspector for the purposes of the Workplace Relations Act 2015.”.”. The point of the amendment is essentially that it would provide a basis for the exchange of information between HIQA, the Health and Safety Authority and the Workplace Relation Commission, WRC, inspectors. If, for example, HIQA found that workers employed by a home-support provider were working unlawful hours or perhaps not being paid correctly, or if there were other breaches of their employment rights and other matters that would be outside of HIQA’s remit, it would be allowed to and there would be a basis on which it could provide that information to the WRC inspectorate. The Minister of State knows that State agencies across the spectrum routinely share information in relation to compliance on a range of matters, whether they be taxation or social protection matters and so on. We believe this particular proposition merits the Minister of State's consideration.

I thank Deputy Nash for taking this amendment, which was tabled by Deputy Sherlock. The proposed amendment from Deputy Sherlock seeks to provide HIQA and the Health and Safety Authority inspectorates under the Workplace Relations Act 2015 with the powers to request information relevant to the performance of their functions, as set out under the Health Act 2007, and allows each organisation to share such information where it appears to it to be required for the other body to carry out its functions as set out under the Act. Neither the Health and Safety Authority nor the Workplace Relations Commission have any functions assigned to them under the Act, rendering the proposed provisions-----

A Cheann Comhairle, I am finding it difficult to hear.

It is a Public Gallery, and we love to have visitors, but the noise comes through and we have to concentrate on what is being said. I ask the Minister of State to continue.

I will go back over my contribution for the sake of clarity. I thank the visitors for their patience and welcome them. Neither the Health and Safety Authority nor the Workplace Relations Commission have many functions assigned to them under the Act, rendering the proposed provision inoperable for either body. Additionally, the established legislation for the Workplace Relations Commission, under section 27 of the Workplace Relations Act 2015 and section 72 of the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005, includes powers to request information in respect to their functions. Chief inspectors are provided with similar powers under section 69W inserted in the Bill we are discussing today. It is important that public bodies are able to share information with each other. The Data Sharing and Governance Act 2019 provides a framework for how public bodies can share data and the necessary requirements for doing so. The framework helps to ensure personal data is shared in a consistent manner with full transparency in the way in which data is shared. Consequently, on the basis of what I have just outlined, I will not be accepting the amendment.

Does Deputy Nash wish to respond? No.

I move amendment No. 2: In page 9, to delete line 21 and substitute the following: “(a) the person provides a home support service to fewer than 2 persons, (ab) the person has been granted an exemption by the chief inspector from the requirements or conditions imposed by or under this Act,”. On Committee Stage we discussed the piece in relation to the number of clients. The current Bill exempts home support providers with fewer than four clients from regulation. The Minister said on Committee Stage it was decided on a proportional basis that people who do one-to-one sessions and might be personal assistants - a profile distinct from those doing just home support - would not be governed by the legislation. We agree with this in principle but the Social Democrats have concerns with the approach taken as unscrupulous employers could create a series of small providers to shirk their regulations. There is also the possibility for the Uberisation of home care providers with introductory agencies matching clients with home carers who are not subject to the regulations and will not be required to have the same standard of training or experience. Our amendment would still allow for single operators to continue working on a one-to-one basis, including personal assistants, and protect the right of an individual wishing to employ their own carer directly. However, if support is provided to more than one client, the amendment would require them to seek an exemption from HIQA. The purpose of this is to ensure the exemption is not taken advantage of by some companies and to prevent a black market of unregulated home care developing. It would also ensure HIQA has a record of the existence of single operators and is alert to any suspicious activity.

In fairness to Deputy Rice, this comes from a point of view of ensuring there is not any workaround. We have spoken previously in relation to this legislation and the whole point is ensuring we have governance, regulation, fair play and a system that works for those who work as home carers but also for those who employ them. That is absolutely necessary. I will also put on the record that, while we welcome that we are dealing with the issue of homecare providers, we need to ensure there is not a long delay in dealing with the issue of personal assistance, PA. I understand that the issue is that it falls between the Department of Health and the Department of Children, Disability and Equality. We need to ensure there is no loophole and that we see movement because we also need to make sure we do not have huge disparity between those who work in homecare and personal assistants. We must ensure we look after them, whether they work with older people or those with disabilities who need extra support.

I thank Deputy Rice for tabling this amendment. Section 69B(2) sets out the circumstances where a homecare support provider can seek an exemption to the requirement to register under the Bill. This ensures there is suitable clarity and transparency about when a person will be exempt from the requirement to register. Section 69B(2)(a) provides that where a person provides a homecare support service to fewer than four people, that person will be exempt from the requirement to register. This exclusion was carefully considered as part of the original general scheme to ensure the regulatory burden placed on providers was proportionate to the size of the service being provided. These small services are typically single operators working on a one-to-one basis with service users. These operators can be considered especially valuable in rural areas. This exemption also seeks to exempt PA services where a service user directly employs a personal assistant. These arrangements allow service users to direct the way in which their services are provided, which upholds the principles of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. International comparisons were also looked at when drafting the exemptions. Wales includes a similar exemption in its version of homecare, which is called domiciliary support services. When I visited Wales, and particularly Cardiff, on St. Patrick's Day, I met the Welsh minister responsible and her officials to discuss this aspect. The Welsh scheme exempts providers who provide support to four or fewer people at any time. The Bill exempts providers who provide support to fewer than four people, which is three or fewer. Northern Ireland, Scotland and England all exempt services where the care and support is provided by a single individual. Based on this proportionality, I cannot accept the amendment. I know the intent behind it. The legislation will be reviewed two years after it fully comes into operation and we will look at it. However, it was carefully thought about and we looked at international comparisons and at making it proportionate. I am not accepting the amendment, but I note its intent.

I ask the Minister that this issue be given due consideration in the review because it is important. We need to ensure there are no loopholes, no operators are getting around the regulations and that they are enforced in full. We have a concern about that, so I ask for a commitment that it will be included in the review.

I accept what the Minister said. It is about making sure we do not end up with an anomaly that allows for people to work in an unregulated system. There is also an absolute requirement to deal with the issue of personal assistants. It is about making sure that happens. All we want is a framework that works so the correct level of homecare and personal assistance can be provided to those who require it. I put a particular emphasis on those with disabilities, because it is sometimes forgotten about.

I thank Deputy Rice for his support for the legislation and assure him that all aspects will be covered in the review. In response to Deputy Ó Murchú, PA services are under the remit of the Department of children and disability. Our Department has been very open. The other Department has a review ongoing so PA is not included in the legislation at the moment, but we are open going forward in the process, once the other Department has concluded its deliberations. I thank the Deputies for their contributions.

Will the Ceann Comhairle permit me to make a final comment?

Yes.

I thank all the contributors to Second Stage, Committee Stage and Report Stage. This is an important Bill and I thank them all for their contributions. The development of this regulatory framework has been a key priority for the Government and represents an integral part of the ongoing development of the statutory homecare scheme as committed to in the programme for Government. I acknowledge the work of my predecessor in this role, the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, who is in the Chamber with us, and more particularly the great work completed by the officials in the Chamber and their colleagues. Officials from my Department, together with colleagues in the Department of Children, Disability and Equality, are considering the most appropriate approach to giving effect to the regulations needed to support this legislation. Should amendments be required to deal with this matter, I will bring them forward as the Bill moves through the Houses of the Oireachtas. I thank Deputies for their contributions. I look forward to working with them in the future on the area of home support and progressing statutory homecare, which was committed to in the programme for Government.