2026-06-09

120. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Minister for Defence if she will withdraw legislation to abolish the triple lock pending a referendum to let the people decide; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [44192/26]

122. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Defence whether public consultation has been undertaken in relation to any proposed changes to the triple lock; and whether the Government will commit to a referendum should any fundamental alteration to Ireland’s neutrality arise from such changes. [44028/26]

The Minister wants to scrap the triple lock. She wants to be able to send Irish troops abroad on international missions outside of the framework of international law. She wants to be able to send Irish troops on NATO-led or US-led missions. That is her political position. I believe that equates to getting rid of neutrality but that is a question for the Minister. My question is whether she will allow the people to decide. Opinion poll after opinion poll has shown public support for neutrality and the triple lock. Will the Minister allow the people to decide on this question rather than making the decision herself?

I am going to answer this question on behalf of the Minister. I propose to take Questions Nos. 120 and 122 together. As the Minister has already outlined, this legislation is a key priority for the Government. The commitment to undertake this necessary reform of the triple lock is set out in the programme for Government. The triple lock is a statutory mechanism. It is established under statute and is not a constitutional mechanism. Any change does not require a referendum. The Deputy has criticised NATO leadership of missions. He completely ignores the fact that our troops have been under NATO command in Kosovo for the last 25 years where they are on a NATO-led mission that has a UN mandate. The Deputy says that we are going to participate in missions in breach of international law. The exact opposite is the case. Everything that we do has to be in accordance with international law, the United Nations principles and our Constitution, which sets our very clearly that this is a peaceful country and that we want friendly relations with people. We are a country that does this. The truth is that if the triple lock continues, there will be no more peacekeeping. That is the reality because the UN has not mandated any new missions. The Minister has already given the example of Operation Irini. That is a really important mission. Irish troops left that mission on Monday of last week. That mission continues in accordance with UN law, international law and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Our people had to come home, however. The impact is not just on the mission. They had to come home. They did.

It is not continuing under UN law. That is the whole point.

It is continuing.

It is not continuing under UN or international law. It is outside the framework of international law.

It is continuing and most of the member states are part of it. That is the reality. It is continuing to do really important work-----

Most of the members states were involved in the invasion of Iraq.

-----to enforce a UN arms embargo in relation to Libya. By the way, it is also doing very important humanitarian work. That is really important but our people had to leave. We are losing the experience they were gaining on these missions with all of their European colleagues. Their European colleagues are all still out there doing that work today. We are not and that is all the triple lock is about. There is no other country, in the EU or otherwise, that requires the same triple lock we have. This weekend, Dermot Ahern, who was the Minister when this was a big issue, said that was then and this is now and that times have changed. We believe the triple lock is no longer fit for purpose and that it must change. That is the reality because UNIFIL is ending this year. The Lebanese Government may well invite countries to participate in a peacekeeping mission there. That may well happen. I do not know whether it will. There may well be discussions about that. However, under the triple lock, we cannot be there. We cannot be there under the current legislation. All we are trying to do is to reform this so that we can continue to be involved in peacekeeping. That is really important. We have had extensive public consultation in this area. The Consultative Forum on International Security Policy was convened. It was open to the public. The forum facilitated a broad national conversation on Ireland's foreign, defence and security policy. It brought together a wide range of stakeholders including civilian and military experts, academics, current and former members of the Defence Forces, representatives of international institutions and members of the public. It was held over four days in Cork, Galway and Dublin. Approximately 1,000 people attended in person and 10,000 people watched online. Some 850 written submissions were received. When reforming the triple lock, we will do so in a manner that remains fully consistent with our legal principles and moral values as a nation. In fact, our Constitution specifies that. We will act in accordance with our obligations under international law. Ireland's continued commitment is to multilateralism, peacekeeping and the principles of the UN Charter, which are seen in the work UNIFIL will continue to do until the end of the mandate and the very work Operation Irini continues to do, although we can no longer take part. Our people came out that day. Nobody else was affected. The proposals to reform the triple lock are consistent with our policy of military neutrality. There are neutral countries participating in Operation Irini today. We are focused on ensuring that Ireland has the capacity to act responsibly and effectively in the service of international peace.

I will take Deputy Murphy's supplementary question and then Deputy Tóibín.

Do I not come in for the first 30 seconds?

I do not think so.

No, I do not think so. The Deputies will have a minute each and then the Minister will get two.

The idea that there has been any real public consultation here is a joke. Micheál Martin said we were going to have a citizens' assembly on neutrality. That was scrapped and replaced with a consultative forum packed with warmongers, NATO heads and academics with links to the military industrial complex. That was the Government's public consultation. What a joke. Allow the people to decide. Give the people a referendum. If the Government is so confident in its arguments, let us have it out and allow the people to decide. I will quote the Minister of State, Deputy Robert Troy. He said: Ireland's position on the use of force where there is no UN mandate or authorisation is well established and known. For fear that anyone is in any doubt, let me be clear: it is wrong and it is illegal. Does the Minister of State agree with Deputy Troy or does he not? All the triple lock does is ensure that any mission we go on has a UN mandate or authorisation. That is the whole point of it. Why did Operation Irini not get extended by the UN? It is because it is no longer just about Libya. Let us be honest; it is about Russia. It is about chasing the Russian shadow fleet. Why on earth should Irish troops be chasing the Russian shadow fleet in the Mediterranean? That would be a breach of neutrality. It is perfectly correct that we are not going to be participating in that.

The triple lock was created through the democratic decision of the Irish people. The triple lock was introduced in 2001 after the defeat of the first referendum on the Nice treaty. When that referendum was defeated, the Government noted that the main concern in the referendum was the issue of Irish neutrality and its erosion. The triple lock was an essential part of the passing of the second referendum on the Nice treaty. Every home in the country received a leaflet from the Government with the triple lock written into it, saying that if they voted for the Nice treaty in the second referendum, they would get the triple lock. While it is not written in the Constitution, it is morally and politically coupled with that democratic decision. The fact that the Government is looking to decouple it from that decision is profoundly antidemocratic. I do not think the Minister of State understands the whole issue of Irish neutrality. When large military blocs, such as the USA, Russia and China, are in opposition to each other, taking sides with either group is by definition military alignment. The reason the Government is going down this route is because of the changes in the European Union. Ursula von der Leyen has stated very openly that she wants to create an EU defence union. In reality, the Government is doing this undercover. I ask the Government to at least put it to a referendum. Do not be afraid of the people in terms of a referendum.

It is very clear to anybody who examines the reality of this situation that the triple lock is simply about maintaining our role as peacekeepers. The issue of neutrality is completely different. We are not taking sides with anybody. We enforce the shadow fleet ourselves, by the way, with other countries. Operation Irini continues to do excellent work in accordance with international law. It is enforcing international law in the Mediterranean and doing really important humanitarian work. The circumstances have changed dramatically. The mandate that I feel I have is the Fianna Fáil election manifesto. We had an election on that because things changed - all of this changed. There is no European Union defence union. There is no defence alliance at the European Union level. We cannot enter that. The people put that in the Constitution, and it cannot happen. It is very wrong to mix those things up. We cannot become part of a European common defence. There are no proposals for a European common defence. Our decision on the triple lock is simply about making our own decisions here in Ireland, in the Dáil, as to where our troops go. We make these decisions in the best interests of peace, the best interests of international law and the best interests of our military and its members. That is what this is about. The Members opposite seek to ascribe a conspiracy to the Government about wars. We have heard it all. In relation to Deputy Paul Murphy’s comments, briseann an dúchas trí shúile an chait. Once Russia is mentioned, he gets all agitated.

I mentioned Russia.

The Deputy mentioned Russia, and he became very agitated because this is about Russia. It is about Russia and other countries vetoing proposals at the UN Security Council. Because of that veto power, it was not possible to get a mandate renewed for Operation Irini. In any event, all of the other countries that were enforcing international law and peace and security did not need this mandate. The decision of the Security Council stands.

The Minister of State claims he has a mandate. What does the Fianna Fáil manifesto say? It says it will continue to protect and promote Ireland's military neutrality, including sensible reform of the triple lock legislation. That is not what it is doing, is it? The triple lock is gone entirely. We look at the heads of Bill, which make it clear. The heads of Bill state that the Bill will provide for the removal of the triple lock. It is gone. Fianna Fáil does not have a mandate for this. We look at the presidential election, and we look at opinion poll after opinion poll. People are attached to neutrality, and they are not stupid. They know, just as Deputy Micheál Martin said, that the triple lock is at the core of our neutrality. Why? It is because it is the only thing that stops this Government or any future Government from sending Irish troops to participate in any sort of imperialist intervention anywhere in the world. It is the only legal thing that stops them. At the committee, it was said that without the triple lock, Irish troops could have been sent to participate in the invasion of Iraq. That was said at the committee by the top civil servant. The Government allowed them to use Shannon Airport. If it were not for the triple lock, the Government could have sent Irish troops abroad. That is what the triple lock is about. I ask again whether the Minister of State agrees with what the Minister of State, Deputy Robert Troy, said.

What we are seeing here is choreography. It is not a conspiracy. Ursula von der Leyen did not hide the fact when she ran for the European Commission Presidency that she wanted an EU defence union. She said it very clearly. She has stated clearly that her objective in the EU parliamentary term is defence and security issues. We have had an EU Defence Commissioner since 2024 whose objective is the defence of the EU. This is not a conspiracy. These are actions that are taking place. Very soon after that discussion, Deputy Micheál Martin said he welcomed the changes to the EU treaties that would reduce the power of nation states to determine decisions on issues such as defence, the military and security. Even the decision-making within the EU is to see a far more diluted influence over nation states. Large nation states fight wars for their national interests. Small nation states will not have influence over those decisions, but will have to send their young people to fight those wars. All we are asking the Government to do is put it to the people. This is the reason the triple lock existed in the first place.

The statements by Deputy Tóibín about fighting wars are outrageous and without any basis in fact. It is the timeworn theme from those in the opposition to the European Union, completely forgetting about and actually insulting those countries that, after the most devastating war, came together to make peace. This idea that big countries in Europe are going to be making war and we are going to join them-----

They are rearming, in case the Minister of State has not seen it.

It is not true, and the Deputy knows it is not true.

They are being attacked by the very country-----

The Minister is contradicting Deputy Byrne.

While it is nice to hear a socialist quoting the Fianna Fáil manifesto, and I certainly appreciate the Deputy’s examination of the manifesto-----

That is your mandate.

The Deputy has not quoted the Constitution, which governs everything we do. The Constitution states at Article 29: 1. Ireland affirms its devotion to the ideal of peace and friendly co-operation amongst nations founded on international justice and morality. 2. Ireland affirms its adherence to the principle of the pacific settlement of international disputes by international arbitration or judicial determination. That is what governs this Government, it governs the Dáil and it governs our military. That is what we do. We do peace, we do friendly co-operation and we accord with the principles of international law. That is what we will do. If there are peace missions out there that are going to take place, perhaps at the invitation of countries affected, maybe Lebanon, we would like to be able to make a decision properly here in the Dáil, maybe involving an Oireachtas committee to examine every aspect of it. We want to make the decision here. We cannot allow countries that some of the Members opposite castigate to have a veto over our foreign policy decisions.

It is called international law.

We are governed by the Constitution. We are governed by this Parliament. That is all we are trying to do here. Operation Irini continues. That goes on, but our people came home. That is the reality of the triple lock, and it is a reality that is wrong for this country. It is a reality that is wrong for a sovereign country. If there are discussions with the Lebanese Government about future peacekeeping missions there, it is wrong that we would not be involved in them because of the triple lock.