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\u00c9ireann","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail"}}},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il 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Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aidan Farrelly)  I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case:  Deputy Michael Cahill - To discuss a ban on pair trawling.  Deputy Catherine Ardagh - To discuss the need for all special schools to accept children at different levels on the autism spectrum.  Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss the level of preparedness for a major cyberattack on the State.  Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail - To discuss ongoing road safety issues on the Celbridge Road, Maynooth.  Deputies Pearse Doherty, Pat the Cope Gallagher and P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn - To discuss Letterkenny University Hospital being overlooked as a location for a surgical hub.  Deputy Pat Buckley - To discuss the flood relief programme for Rathcormac, Castlemartyr, Killeagh and Mogeely in County Cork.  Deputy Louis O'Hara - To discuss the urgent need for updated wind energy development guidelines.  Deputy Colm Burke - To discuss the need for a national nursing home care policy.  Deputy David Cullinane - To discuss funding for capital developments at ports and fishery harbours in Waterford.  Deputy Donna McGettigan - To discuss issues affecting students, including fees, the accommodation crisis and cost-of-living crisis.  Deputy Erin McGreehan - To discuss making Louth County Hospital a location for a surgical hub for the north east.  Deputy Eoghan Kenny - To discuss a review of the policy on the provision of incontinence products by the HSE.  Deputy Thomas Gould - To discuss the closure of the tenant in situ scheme in Cork city.  Deputy Darren O'Rourke - To discuss the current and estimated future shortage of GPs.  Deputies Paul Donnelly, Ruth Coppinger and Roderic O'Gorman - To discuss provision of places in ASD classes in St. Mochta's National School, Clonsilla.  Deputy Maurice Quinlivan - To discuss the crisis of capacity at University Hospital Limerick.  Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire - To discuss the need for Cork Educate Together secondary school to have a new building progressed.  Deputy Danny Healy-Rae - To discuss planned changes to roads infrastructure in Killarney.  The matters raised by Deputies Malcolm Byrne, Danny Healy-Rae, Eoghan Kenny, Pearse Doherty, Pat the Cope Gallagher and P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn, and Paul Donnelly, Ruth Coppinger and Roderic O'Gorman have been selected for discussion. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Cybersecurity Policy","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I thank the Minister for taking this critical issue. As he knows, we all live in a digital world. It is one where computing in general has made our lives better and easier and we are far more interconnected. Artificial intelligence, quantum computing and other technologies have the potential to deliver ever more effective and efficient public services. However, as cyberspace becomes more critical to all of our lives, the risks and threats are also increasing exponentially.  Our society depends on a free, open and secure cyberspace. Ireland should do everything to support those values at a global level. In our engagement in multilateral efforts, we need to ensure international law applies in cyberspace as much as it does on the ground. In that regard, we have to support the work of the United Nations, the European Union and others in this field. Like other countries, there are challenges to Ireland in the cyberattacks we face, including those from other states or malign actors aligned to those states, as well as those who want to hack State infrastructure systems for financial, political or ideological reasons.  I commend the work of the National Cyber Security Centre, NCSC. As the Minister knows, it needs to continue to expand. In one of its most recent reports, it talked about 2023 as being its busiest year. At that time, it received 5,200 cyber reports and while many were minor, it identified 721 cyber incidents that represented a threat to a network and required a response. The National Cyber Security Centre has now found there is enough evidence and information in a number of those cases to attribute activity to specific foreign intelligence and security agencies.  We know that businesses are regularly hit by cyberattacks, but I want to talk about the potential impact on critical State infrastructure. Everyone will remember May 2021, when the HSE faced a major ransomware attack. We know that the costs to date have been more than \u20ac150 million, not to mention the many lives that were undoubtedly lost as a result of the attack, as well as delayed appointments and the impact on people's health outcomes.  For security reasons, we often cannot discuss cyberattacks. When I put a question to every Department as to how many cyberattacks they faced in recent years and how much they were spending on cybersecurity, a lot of them replied that they could not answer for security reasons. Interestingly, some of them were able to provide details on how much they were spending on cybersecurity. Given the amounts involved, it shows most are taking it quite seriously.  It is important that we know the State has a plan in place to combat any major cyberattack we face in the future and to address situations where critical infrastructure may be brought down. This could be in health, transport, financial services, Government payments or energy. We need to have an all hands on deck approach if this is to happen, similar to what we have seen with major weather events. I hope we have learned from the experiences of the HSE attack and that we are constantly learning from efforts to attack critical State infrastructure.  The Minister will also be aware of the risk of destabilisation to the State when there is a malicious cyberattack. The spread of misinformation and disinformation represents a threat to democracy. Trust in Government and our provision of services can also be damaged when critical infrastructure is brought down. Our sense of freedom to enjoy certain rights can also be under threat. This issue needs to be taken seriously and I am glad the Minister is here today to take the question. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I thank Deputy Byrne for raising this important issue. The reason I am here is because of the importance of it.  Deputy Byrne is well aware that cybersecurity threats pose a major risk to essential services and critical sectors in Ireland and throughout the world. One of the consequences of being a modern, successful economy is that this is the type of threat to which the country is exposed, I regret to say. I therefore welcome that Deputy Byrne has raised this issue. It is important for me to outline, not just to Deputy Byrne, but to the House, the measures taken by my Department to ensure the State\u2019s cybersecurity resilience and preparedness are where they should be.  Deputy Byrne referred to the 2021 ransomware attack on the HSE. That was a very significant event from the point of view of the country and our preparedness for such cyberattacks. Since then, the National Cyber Security Centre has had a significant increase in its resources. It is essential that those resources have increased very significantly. Back in 2011, the NCSC only had four staff. At the end of 2024, it had 75 staff and an annual budget of \u20ac12 million. There is also a commitment in budget 2025 that the number of staff will increase by a further 30, bring it to more than 100 people working in the NCSC. The continued growth of the NCSC reflects the constantly evolving threat landscape and the importance of a resilient national network.  It is appropriate, and I welcome the fact, that the NCSC has come within the jurisdictional control of the Department of justice. Considering the threat posed to the country, it is appropriate that the Department of justice should have departmental and ministerial responsibility for issues concerning cyber threat attacks.  Deputy Byrne will also be aware that the European NIS2 directive also provides a major step forward for overall European cybersecurity and resilience. It will enhance cyber risk management in Ireland, including generating significant improvements in our capacity to protect against and respond to major incidents. Last July, the Government gave its approval to the priority drafting of the national cybersecurity Bill, which is currently being undertaken by my Department. That Bill will transpose the NIS2 directive into Irish law. It will also enhance the role of the NCSC, which will include national cybersecurity monitoring, resilience building, information sharing and the national incident response. It will give the NCSC specific powers to engage in a range of scanning-type activities to identify systems vulnerable to specific exploits.  The national cyber emergency plan was published in May 2024, and it sets out the national approach for responding to serious cybersecurity incidents that affect the confidentiality, integrity and availability of nationally important information technology and operational technology systems and networks. The NCSC is currently working on the national cyber risk assessment for 2025, which will take into account the changing international threat landscape.  As Deputy Byrne mentioned, it is regrettably the case that some of the attacks taking place on national cybersecurity networks are emanating from malign state actors. It is important that we be prepared in order to respond to and deter that.  Deputy Byrne referred to a number of international agreements. I am pleased to say that Ireland is an active participant in a number of UN and other international processes where issues of cybersecurity arise. Among these is the UN open-ended working group on security of and in the use of information and communication technologies, which was established to develop norms, rules, and principles for responsible state behaviour in cyberspace.  Ireland also participates in the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, in particular as regards cybersecurity, conflict prevention and crisis management.  It is important to emphasise that we are prepared, but this is a constant risk and it is inevitable that we will be subject to further attacks in the future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  Like the Minister, I welcome the fact that the NCSC is now within the remit of the Department of justice. I welcome the fact that he is giving priority to the cybersecurity Bill, but he might provide an outline as to when he envisages it coming before the House. While I welcome the fact that the NCSC regularly carries out assessments of cyber risk, I wonder if an assessment has been carried out as to exactly how vulnerable some of our critical infrastructure happens to be. For instance, how easy might it be for a malign actor to knock out the traffic lights in Dublin, with the ensuing chaos that would result, or stop all bank payments to public servants or social welfare recipients? What systems do we have in place to seek assistance from or offer assistance to like-minded states if a cyberattack were to happen here? We need to co-operate, particularly with our EU partners. Similar to Storm \u00c9owyn, where we sought assistance from overseas, I believe we will need to seek and offer assistance where like-minded countries are attacked.  This is a global issue and, therefore, when it comes to overseas aid, we should be offering to help developing countries to build their cyber resilience, given the expertise in this country. They are often subject to attacks by some of the rogue states in this area. We need at an international level to start demanding accountability, particularly from the four states most responsible for cyberattacks around the world: Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. They are engaged in or sponsor cyberterrorism, cyberespionage and the spreading of misinformation and disinformation, which represent threats not just to this State, but to others that share our values. In the same way we rightly hold countries to account for actions in wars on the ground, we need to hold them to account where they act in a malign way in cyberspace. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I have had frequent meetings with the Garda Commissioner and the head of the NCSC in respect of the threats to which this country is exposed as a result of malign actors seeking to attack our cyber technology. It is important that I am updated on a continuing basis.  I regret to say that the Deputy is correct, in that the threat does exist. It is a threat not just to our national State-owned infrastructure, as he has indicated, but also to private enterprise within the country. The NCSC is to the forefront in this matter, as am I. There is an obligation on State agencies to ensure that each State agency has measures in place to ensure that it can withstand whatever form of cyberattack is forthcoming. I know it will be impossible for all cyberattacks to be withstood, but if we have preparedness and measures in place in State agencies, that at least will increase and strengthen our resilience.  The Deputy also indicated issues in respect of private sector companies. They all have an obligation to ensure, particularly if they are providing services to the public at large, that they have measures and protections in place so that, be they banks, communications providers or other agencies, their customers are protected in this respect. One of the reasons Ireland is an attractive location for malign State actors or persons who are involved in trying to extract data from private and public enterprises via ransomware is the important link between Europe and the United States. That is a very significant role, one that is now more apparent because of the success of the Irish economy, and we really need to defend it.  The cybersecurity Bill was approved for priority drafting and I hope it will be introduced in the not-too-distant future, but I will get back to the Deputy specifically on that. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cybersecurity Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Road Projects","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I am glad to get the opportunity to raise this matter in the Chamber. First, I have to explain the present setup. The national primary road coming into Killarney from the Cork side is a very busy road as it is. It goes through what we know locally as Daly's roundabout and then carries on to the old bypass, which has been built for over 50 years, to Tralee, Killorglin, all of mid-Kerry and wherever you want to go after that. Approximately 40,000 vehicles go through that roundabout each day, maybe 18,000 or 19,000 into Killarney town and 21,000 on to the other places I mentioned. The roundabout itself works perfectly. Most times when people reach it, they may have to queue to get from one side to the other. Then they get relief when they go through the bypass. It works perfectly. I never see it clogged or blocked. Even at that, the queues can be 3 miles or 4 miles backed up on either side coming in from the Cork Road or coming in from the Tralee Road into Killarney, or indeed coming up to Dr. Hans Liebherr Road if people are coming from Killorglin.  Now, under active travel, which the previous Government had in place, the present Government proposes to take away the roundabout and instead put five or six sets of traffic lights there on either side of the road and down to the Ballycasheen junction, where people come in from the Cork side. Two sets of cycleways and footpaths are also proposed - there are footpaths there already - and it is proposed to narrow the carriageway to 6 m, which I contend is not wide enough for the vehicles we have today. A suggested \u20ac3 million, TII locally and the council say, is to be spent on it. I suggest it will cost a lot more.  It is premature. What we need now is to build an outer bypass, which we have been campaigning for for 24 or 25 years. We have been promised \u20ac3 million for this year to progress that and to bypass the town, starting outside at Lissivigeen, going northwards west through Kilcummin and coming out in Farranfore, bypassing the whole lot. All of what is proposed now would be fine if that were done first, but it must be remembered that the roundabout to be taken away is on the N22, the national primary road into Killarney and the rest of Kerry.  Before this project goes ahead, I ask that temporary traffic lights be placed at every point where it is suggested there will be traffic lights, and at the roundabout especially. Temporary traffic lights should be put there for a week or two - it should be two weeks - to ensure that they will work and we will not have a complete disaster. We are bad enough with traffic in Killarney as it is. A similar project has been carried out in Fossa, where they narrowed the road. Two large vehicles when they meet there cannot pass each other without stopping up altogether and trying to inch their way past each other, what with mirrors and everything sticking out. It is not right to do that. That is the N72, the national secondary road. What we are talking about here is the national primary road, and to do this is very serious. Maura Healy-Rae has asked for the temporary lights to be placed before the work is undertaken. I am asking the Department of Transport go down, talk and look at this project with the officials, if they are involved, and----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aidan Farrelly)  The Deputy will have a chance to come back in. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  All right. Sorry, a Chathaoirleach Ghn\u00edomhach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)  I thank Deputy Healy-Rae for raising this matter. I am glad to take it on behalf of the Minister for Transport, who, as the Deputy knows, has responsibility for overall policy and Exchequer funding relating to the national roads programme. Once funding arrangements have been put in place with Transport Infrastructure Ireland, under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2015 and in line with the national development plan, the operation and management of individual roads is a matter for TII, in conjunction with the local authorities concerned.  Transport Infrastructure Ireland ultimately delivers the national roads programme in line with Project Ireland 2040, the national planning framework and the national development plan. The Government has earmarked \u20ac5.1 billion for capital spending on new national roads projects from 2021 to 2030 as part of the NDP. This funding will enable improved regional accessibility across the country as well as compact growth, which are key national strategic outcomes. The funding will provide for the development of numerous national road projects, including the completion of projects already at construction stage and those close to it, as well as the development of a number of others. An additional \u20ac2.9 billion was allocated for the protection and renewal of the existing national road network.  As the greater portion of this funding becomes available in the second half of the decade, this means there is a constraint on the funding available for new projects in 2025. However, approximately \u20ac502 million of Exchequer capital funds has been provided for national roads through Transport Infrastructure Ireland to local authorities this year. It is important to point out that the programme for Government commits to continued investment in new roads infrastructure to ensure that all parts of Ireland are connected to one another.  This year, approximately \u20ac3 million was allocated for the construction of new national roads in Kerry, with an additional \u20ac10.2 million allocated for the improvement of the existing network. With regard to Daly\u2019s roundabout in Killarney, which is the substance of the Deputy's question, I understand from Transport Infrastructure Ireland that Kerry County Council engaged consultants to review safety and capacity issues on the N22 and its approaches and to introduce improved active travel facilities at the N22-Park Road junction. A proposal for an active travel-friendly Park Road roundabout with reduced lane lengths was not considered the optimal solution for the location, with a signalised junction identified as the preferred solution recommended by Kerry County Council. Details of the traffic assessment work undertaken in relation to the signalised junction proposal can be requested from the county council. As part of the scheme, it is proposed to reallocate some of the existing road space on the carriageway between Daly\u2019s roundabout and Ballycasheen junction to provide space for a new active travel facility. This would reduce the width of the existing carriageway down to 7 m to provide space for the construction of a 2.5 m cycle track. This is in keeping with the commitment in the programme for Government to continue to invest in dedicated infrastructure for walking and cycling. Transport Infrastructure Ireland did not allocate funding for this scheme in 2024 or 2025. Having regard to Kerry County Council\u2019s recent approval of the scheme, it will be considered for funding in the 2026 funding allocations. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I thank the Minister of State for his reply. He referred to roads that were under construction or near it. This is not under construction. Planning has not yet been granted. It is at the planning stage at present. Anyone who wants to make a submission needs to make it before Friday evening. The people of Kerry need to know what is happening because this will create chaos.  The Minister of State spoke about narrowing the road to 7 m. We have been told 6 m. As I said, this went through Kerry County Council at an earlier stage. Maura Healy-Rae was the only councillor who voted against it and she will continue to do so. Perhaps the others will see now, because they are getting a second bite of the cherry, that this is wrong and the wrong time. When the outer bypass is built, this will be fine. We must prioritise to ensure lorries, buses, commercial vehicles, cars and all the vehicles going through this roundabout at present continue to use this road as they have to the best of their ability. We are very worried that traffic lights will impede this. We all know if you change the system from a roundabout to traffic lights, you slow the whole thing down. Instead of being backed up three or four miles out the Cork road and three miles out the Tralee road, it will be much farther and complete chaos will ensue. I ask that whatever consultants were being dealt with put in temporary lights for a week or two - preferably two - to see how the thing manages before they remove the roundabout. When they remove the roundabout, it will be too late. We will not have the other bypass for six or seven years yet, with everything going well. We hope and expect it will go well. I ask that the \u20ac3 million proposed for use on this roundabout and these changes be added to the outer bypass. If it cannot be spent there, spend it on the 650 local improvement scheme applicants waiting for ten years or more. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  I will relay to Transport Infrastructure Ireland that the Deputy has raised this matter in the D\u00e1il. As I said, this has been strongly considered locally through Kerry County Council. It engaged consultants to review safety and capacity issues on the N22 and its approaches and to introduce improved active travel facilities at the N22-Park Road junction. Coming out of that proposal and consideration by Kerry County Council and those assessments, it made the decision that this was the best approach to address the issues. It is always appropriate and correct that these issues be given as much consideration as possible at county council level in terms of the work and professional assessment by engineers and transport engineers, also engaging thoroughly with local authority members in consideration of the matter. From the information I have, that is what happened regarding the proposals currently under consideration. The Deputy indicated they were at planning stage and there was an opportunity for people to participate and give their views in relation to that. It has come as a result of significant engagement, consideration and assessment as to the optimal approach to address the issues at Daly's roundabout.  I will pass on the matter the Deputy raised today. It will continue to get significant consideration locally through the county council and local consultation process. I know the Deputy will stay actively involved in its consideration. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Road Projects"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Medical Aids and Appliances","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I wish to address the provision of incontinence products by the HSE. Although the Minister of State is not the line Minister, I wish to raise this serious issue for families across the country. Incontinence products are essential. They are used daily. I wish to speak specifically about incontinence products for children. I refer to a specific case raised by a parent with me in relation to her son. I will read out some of her correspondence to me, with her permission:  My son was born prematurely before 26 weeks in May 2021. In his first few weeks, he suffered a lung haemorrhage, two brain haemorrhages and a bowel rupture that led to a stoma for a year. He also experienced significant eye issues and has since been discoursed with cerebral palsy. Every step of the way has been a fight, and I have had to pay privately for nearly every service he is entitled to under the CDNT system. I have remained quiet until now, but the latest development has left me utterly shocked and disgusted. Now that my son is four, he qualifies for HSE-provided incontinence pads. However, he has yet to receive any. He currently weights 21 kg and still wear Pampers size 8 - the largest I can find - despite them no longer fitting properly. Pull-ups in size 9 are available, but they're unsuitable as he wears and AFO. The most infuriating part of this situation is that I have been told he will only be allocated four pads per day. He routinely goes through at least eight nappies a day - and that's while I'm still paying for them myself. To be told by a district nurse not to change him if he is only wet - with the implication that he must sit in it to conserve supplies - is not only medically unsound but dehumanising. After all he has been through, particularly with his bowel and stoma history, I will not stand by while his dignity, comfort, and skin integrity are compromised to meet a quote. Only last week, a doctor speaking on a documentary about nursing home care highlighted how unacceptable it is to leave people sitting in wet nappies. Why should it be any different for a four-year-old child with complex medical needs?  The Minister of State will appreciate the distress, anger and disappointment felt by this mother.  Her word \"dehumanising\" puts it lightly.  I tried to resolve this issue through a parliamentary question but the HSE response to me was quite unclear. It stated that, based on a clinical nursing assessment, a public health nurse may prescribe containment products to assist with the management of incontinence and that the provision of containment products is subject to parent-client engagement in a toileting programme. It added that the clinical nurse specialist for continence in north Lee is currently working with the child and his family. Furthermore, it stated the prescription of containment products is in line with the child's assessed requirements and that these will be monitored or adjusted as necessary by the clinical nurse specialist. I am sure that is probably in the response the Minister of State has.  Does the Minister of State know what the policy on incontinence product provision is? How many products may be allocated to children with complex needs? This mother has been told four is the limit; however, it has increased to six. The mother told a nurse she was lobbying local TDs. Will the Minister of State provide clarity on the number for me?  The nurse the parent is engaging with in her community has met her only once and has never met her child. That does not align with the clinical nursing assessment and the policy on the prescribing of incontinence products as outlined in the parliamentary question. In the response, the HSE highlighted engagement with a toileting programme. Of course, the mother wants her son to be toilet trained at some stage, but that will not happen overnight. I ask the Minister of State to engage on this specific case or ask his colleagues in government to do so to ensure the child will be provided with the number of incontinence pads required per day. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  I thank Deputy Kenny for raising this matter. I am answering on behalf of the Minister for Health.  I have the details and response on the guidelines and policy around incontinence pads. I will give the Deputy these as part of my response but I assure him that I will be following this case up further, on the back of his contribution, with the Department of Health and the HSE. The guidelines and policy are focused on the fact that the approach has to be person centred. It has to take into account the needs of the individual person, be it a child or adult, and has to be appropriate. I will certainly be taking this up following on from the Deputy's engagement on the floor of the D\u00e1il this morning.  The HSE provides a wide range of medical products and services under the community-funded schemes to eligible persons in accordance with the Health Act 1970, as amended. These are provided following assessment by a relevant health professional. The HSE oversees the provision and supply of incontinence wear products for eligible persons across the country. Provision is based on an appropriate clinical assessment and the determination of the most appropriate products that will meet the individual's needs.  The provision of clinically appropriate incontinence wear products to eligible persons is administered within each health region under a national tender arrangement. The HSE advises that this is a person-centred delivery system which allows the individual or their carer to vary both the time of delivery and the amount of product delivered according to their specific needs. It is also possible to alter the location for a particular delivery should the need arise.  The HSE also utilises the service provided by public health nurses and continence nurse advisers to assess individual patient needs to ensure the supply of incontinence wear products is appropriate.  As part of the national service improvement programme for the community-funded schemes, the HSE has completed and implemented national guidelines in respect of incontinence wear products. These are published and are available on the HSE website.  Governance arrangements have been strengthened through the implementation of an integrated electronic management system to support the ordering, supply and distribution of incontinence wear products across all healthcare settings, including the home delivery service.  The HSE advises that in circumstances where a person does not hold full eligibility, such as through a medical card or a long-term illness scheme card, reimbursement support for incontinence wear products is provided under the drugs payment scheme, DPS. This scheme provides for the refund of the amount by which expenditure on approved prescribed medicines or medical and surgical appliances, including incontinence wear, exceeds a named threshold in any calendar month. The DPS is not means tested and is available to anyone ordinarily resident in Ireland. The scheme threshold is \u20ac80 per month. While there are no set limits on the quantity, the DPS claim must be supported by a valid prescription for the products.  That outlines the policy, oversight and guidance. At the core should be appropriate care and supply for the individual. I will certainly take up the case with the Department and the Minister for Health following the Deputy's contribution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I thank the Minister of State. I appreciate that.  When I offered my sympathy to the family, including the parent, the parent told me directly she did not want it. I appreciated that because, from a public representative's point of view, it was quite difficult for me that a parliamentary question did not outline specifically whether the child would be provided with the necessary incontinence products he so needs. At four years old, the child, along with his mother, has gone through so much, as outlined in the mother's email that I read in my opening statement. The Minister of State knows himself that when an email like that comes into your inbox, you directly engage on it because it is the on-the-ground issues that are directly affecting people. Often they go unnoticed because parents are afraid to speak up about them. They try to buy the incontinence products themselves. The Minister will have noted from the email that the mother has paid for all CDNT provision from her own pocket. This points to a systemic failure in our CDNT system.  What the Minister said about person-centred policy and further engagement is very welcome but, as he will have noted from my opening statement, the clinical nurse has never even met the four-year-old child. That is the disappointing thing here. Perhaps there are several boys and girls of the same age under the nurse's remit but the fact that the nurse has not even met the child is an issue. This is why I do not understand how a clinical assessment could have taken place. It cannot just be a conversation between a parent and a nurse.  I cannot see on the HSE website the policy that the nurse has outlined to the parent, namely, that four incontinence products is the maximum number that can be provided. The number increased to six after the parent told the nurse that she had been lobbying local TDs. I ask the Minister of State to ask the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, to engage with the parent on a one-to-one basis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  Certainly, I will. Obviously, the parents have been through several challenges and the child has had a very difficult and challenging start to life. It is really important from the point of view of the State that the health service we provide be appropriate to the child's needs. It is important that incontinence pads be appropriate to and sufficient in number for the child to meet all his needs. I will certainly engage with the Minister for Health and her Department on this case and ask that it be fully considered and responded to.  The Deputy raised the child development network therapies and teams. I am aware that there have been recruitment challenges in various parts of the country, including my county and the Deputy's. The challenge has primarily been the availability of therapists. The Department of Health, the Department of education and the Department of further education have been working to ensure additional staff are trained to meet the needs. They have been seeking to recruit and there have been improvements over the past year to two years in regard to increasing the size of the team. There is significant demand that is not being met but the objective is to have more people coming through who can take up the positions and meet the needs. This is essential to affected children, and supports are essential to families.  I thank the Deputy for raising this. I will ask the HSE to engage further. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Medical Aids and Appliances"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Hospital Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  There are only two of us raising this matter. Deputy Gallagher sends his apologies. He got called away yesterday.  As the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, knows, the surgical hub is a key issue in Donegal. The hub has to be delivered in Letterkenny. It is not just a case of trying to ensure we have the resources in the county. We have heard from an unprecedented number of doctors, surgeons and consultants in Letterkenny hospital and they have told us that without the surgical hub there, they are at serious risk of losing accident and emergency services and maternity services within a short period. That is why they and all the politicians in Donegal have come together and made it very clear that we need to see a surgical hub delivered in Letterkenny. This would not be to the detriment of Sligo \u2013 we believe the north-west region has been left behind for far too long \u2013 but there has to be a location in Letterkenny.  Last Friday, on local radio, we had the Minister for State, Deputy Harkin, who, as we know, was part of the grubby deal with Deputy Lowry to put this Government in place, stating on Highland Radio with Greg Hughes that she secured the location of the surgical hub in Sligo as part of that deal. That is news to us, the TDs who sat across the table from the Minister for about an hour and a half making the case for the surgical hub because the Minister will eventually be the person who decides on the location. It is news to us, having sat repeatedly in meetings with the HSE arguing the toss about why the surgical hub should be in Letterkenny. I am sure it was news to the 160-plus surgeons, consultants and doctors who signed the letter making very reasonable medical arguments for the locations.  I want the Minister of State to come clean today. Has the Department ascertained whether there is any secret deal in respect of the location of this surgical hub? That clarity is needed. Has the Minister approached Deputy Marian Harkin to get clarity in this regard? I would like the Minister for Health to listen to the concerns of the TDs here. As I said, Deputy Gallagher would have liked to have been here as well. This is a cross-party issue because the issues in Donegal are so important. As I said to the Minister, if she makes the decision based on the facts, there is no doubt that the surgical hub will be located in Letterkenny. We need that decision urgently but, most importantly, we need the right decision. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn  All we are asking for in Donegal is fair play. We are not asking for special treatment; we are asking that our citizens do not have to travel long distances for care that should be provided in their own community. We are asking that our emergency services not be allowed to collapse and that we have the necessary number of surgeons and consultants in Letterkenny University Hospital. If there is to be only one surgical hub for the north-west region, a huge region extending from the top of Donegal down into Roscommon, I imagine, and that hub is not in Letterkenny, it will be a disaster for County Donegal and our services. Those are not my words but those of the consultants. A presentation made to TDs was extremely concerning. The Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is very aware of that and I thank her for engaging at the meeting last night. We need to have absolute clarity today that no deal has been done on this.  To be clear, in Donegal we are not into divide and conquer. We want Sligo and Letterkenny to have a surgical hub. We want all of the people to be treated the same. We want equal services for all of our people. The HSE has pulled services away into Galway and neglected Donegal for a long time but we are not turning this into a Sligo versus Donegal issue. We want a surgical hub and equal access for all our people. We want clarity, following the intervention from Deputy Harkin, that a deal has not been done, there will be fairness for the people of Donegal, all of the doctors and consultants will be listened to and the facts and evidence on the ground about population numbers and demand will be listened to.  The final message is this. We, in Donegal, will not be neglected anymore. This is a cross-party matter now. We will not accept second-class citizenship. This issue has united us like no other health matter has done before. It needs to be sorted out. We need clarity today that we are going to get fairness in all of this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Education and Youth (Deputy Michael Moynihan)  I thank Deputies Doherty and Mac Lochlainn for raising this issue. I understand the apology made by our colleague, Deputy Pat the Cope Gallagher. I recognise the Deputies' dedication to the people of Donegal and to the issue.  I will first address the issue of locations for the surgical hubs. The programme for Government commits to establishing six new hubs, in south Dublin, north Dublin, Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford, and exploring the provision of an additional surgical hub for the north west. The programme for Government also committed to developing new elective treatment centres in Cork, Galway and Dublin, significantly increasing our capacity to deliver elective care and driving down waiting times for everyone. Developments at the named surgical hub sites are well under way. Building on the success of the Reeves day surgery unit in Tallaght, the Minister for Health opened a new surgical unit in Mount Carmel in south Dublin in February and we expect the rest to become operational over the next 18 months.  The Minister is clear that no matter where these new facilities are located, everyone should have access to sufficient and appropriate elective surgical capacity. The hubs, along with the new elective treatment centres, will form a national network of elective care. This will enable the delivery of care for all patients, not just those living in a particular location or catchment area. No decision has yet been made on the location of the north-west surgical hub and the Minister is taking time to consider and understand the situation in Donegal. This includes engagement with local representatives, doctors and consultants. I know she was due to meet some of them last night. She remains committed to positively engaging with everyone who is interested in delivering the best healthcare for the people of Donegal.  Turning to Letterkenny University Hospital in particular, the Government is committed to the ongoing development of the hospital and has allocated significant resources to meet the needs of patients there. This has included an increase in the hospital's budget by 57% over the last five years. In that time we have also seen staffing grow by 25% and 28 new beds have been opened. Recent capital projects completed at Letterkenny University Hospital include an extension to the laboratory and works in the acute mental health unit. Several capital projects are under way, including the expansion of the renal department, a pharmacy aseptic unit, a new heating centre and a range of projects to increase capacity. Construction is also under way of a 110-bed community hospital in Letterkenny, representing an investment of \u20ac52 million for the enhancement of services for older people.  Letterkenny University Hospital has also expressed plans for four key infrastructural projects, which form part of a development control plan within the HSE west and north-west health region. These projects include bed expansion, emergency and urgent care capacity, critical care capacity and an ambulatory care block. We understand these plans are being developed by the hospital and will need to be further considered by the HSE before a decision can be made on their inclusion in the capital programme. I hope the Deputies can see we are committed to the people of Donegal. I look forward to continued engagement on these issues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I thank the Minister of State for his response. He says no decision has been made yet. Will he give clarity in his response? It is not just Deputy Harkin who has gone on local radio to say this; the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae has also gone on and said she has secured this. We now have two Ministers of State who make up the formation of the Government saying it. Does one hand know what the other is doing? Has the Minister for Health or the Department clarified with Deputy Harkin whether a deal exists - as she claims - or not? Is this just the Minister of State suggesting that he has no knowledge of a deal within the Department? They are two different things. We would like clarification on that. Outside of a deal or not, this decision has to be made on the merits and the facts. As Deputy Mac Lochlainn has said, there is absolutely no way we are going to allow this to happen. The surgical hub not being delivered in Letterkenny is not just about resources not coming to Donegal. It is about the accident and emergency department closing down in the future, maternity services closing down and our hospital being downgraded. Those are not my words; they are the words of those on the front line. We will not accept it. That is why the Minister of Health must make the right decision on the basis of facts. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn  This could not be more serious. As the Minister of State will know from his Government colleagues, we have been told this very clearly. These doctors and consultants have said publicly on local radio that our emergency services could be lost. Imagine us losing an emergency department in Letterkenny University Hospital. That is how serious our surgical services have gotten to. We are down to three permanent surgeons; it was six not that long ago. We cannot attract the level of surgeons we need. If the Minister decides the surgical hub for the north-west is in one place, Sligo, it is just a death knell. It is extremely serious. I have never seen 171 doctors, consultants and GPs, sign a letter. I do not know anywhere in this State where this has happened. That is how serious this is. I will reiterate that we are not playing the game of divide and conquer. Sligo, the north west, Donegal and all of us deserve this. There is an absolutely unique case now for a surgical hub in Letterkenny and Sligo to be delivered at exactly the same time to have the quality of services our people deserve, to protect what we have and to protect our emergency services. This is where it is at. We need that clarity between the Minister for Health and Deputy Harkin and a public statement of clarification. If it is two surgical hubs that is fine but the Government should not play divide and conquer. It needs to get its act together on this issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  Again, I thank Deputies Doherty and Mac Lochlainn for raising the issue. I will take back exactly what they have said regarding Letterkenny University Hospital.  The information I have is very clear. No decision has been made on the location of the north-west surgical hubs. I understand meetings were held and there was engagement with the Minister last night on this issue. I hear what the Deputies are saying about the challenges in Letterkenny and Donegal, and I will bring that back to the Department and the Minister. I cannot be clearer than what was in the statement I have in front of me from the Department. I understand the issues the Deputies have raised. Without labouring the point, I will take the points the Deputies raised back to the Department and seek clarification for them. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Hospital Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Donnelly  I know the Minister of State is aware of the issue in St. Mochta\u2019s National School and the two special classes. First and foremost, we should express our concern for the parents and children involved in this situation.  St. Mochta\u2019s agreed to open up two classes after long discussions and much dialogue with the NCSE - one in temporary accommodation in the library and the other in December when two modular classes were to be delivered. The principal then informed the parents they needed to make the NCSE aware of their children, which all parents did. They were issued letters of eligibility by the NCSE. In fact, one parent had already done so around October 2024. The principal and patron were told they would be exempt from the 19 February deadline that was imposed with regard to special classes for 2025. Unfortunately, they got an email last Friday afternoon, the last day of school, from the NCSE saying that 11 of those 12 places have been allocated, but not one of those allocations had been given to those six students who are in St. Mochta\u2019s school, including that one child who had a letter from October 2024. We have 17 to 18 parents who are deeply worried about how this is going. We need clarification from the NCSE as to how it will resolve this for all of those parents. Every child, as we have always said, deserves a place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  To clarify, St. Mochta\u2019s school in Clonsilla has 900 to 1,000 students. The management agreed to take on a huge cohort under pressure of school places in Dublin West. Six pupils enrolled in that school have approval from the NCSE for special or autism class provision, but they were not on the list that was sent to the school last Friday. We have a bizarre situation where these parents would not have autism classes in the school that they actually attend. That has to be rectified. We do not know how this happened because at a meeting that was convened the other night, the management of the school told TDs that they had verbal approval from the NCSE that these parents would be facilitated. It makes sense because the classes are not even ready yet. It would make sense to remain where they are and then move in when the classes are ready. There is very little time to raise this. We are now in that situation. The parents would have had legitimate expectations from the NCSE that they would receive a placement in the special classes when they opened, and that was the understanding of the principals.  I spoke to parents this morning in Dublin 15 who still do not have school places. One parent has twins and another was campaigning with us last year. We still have a crisis of school places. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I thank the Minister of State for attending. I understand the NCSE is attempting address the crisis we have for places in special classes, and I know it is acting quickly. However, the way it has acted in the context of St. Mochta\u2019s is not the right solution. St. Mochta\u2019s has agreed to open two special classes - two ASD classes - in September for 12 students. It currently has six students on its books attending the school, each of whom is known to the NCSE. They also have letters with the clear recommendation they should be in an ASD class attached to a mainstream school. The school has now been allocated 11 students \u2013 every one of those deserves a place as well \u2013 but if the six students who are in St. Mochta\u2019s have to wait until those 11 students have moved on through the system, they will never receive a place in a special class in St. Mochta\u2019s because the new students are all across the age groups. They are from junior infants all the way up to fourth class. The 12 new students - the students St. Mochta\u2019s has given the names for \u2013 are junior infants and senior infants students. They are just starting their time in St. Mochta\u2019s.  Every child in Dublin 15 deserves an appropriate place in the right school. We can address and fix this in St. Mochta\u2019s. It is important that the Department and the NCSE engage with the school and resolve this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  I thank the Deputies for raising this issue, and I fully accept and understand the genuineness with which it is raised. I fully accept the Deputies' bona fides in respect of this issue.  The Government is fully committed to supporting all children with additional needs to achieve their full potential. It is a core priority of the work of the Department of education that every child should receive a school place that meets their needs. There is a significant body of work being undertaken to ensure that this is the case. This includes the creation of more than 2,000 new special school classes in mainstream schools and 16 new special schools established since 2019. Both the Minister, Deputy McEntee, and I meet with Department of education officials and the NCSE on a weekly basis to track the progress of the provision of special classes and special school placements.  An additional 399 new special education classes have been sanctioned for this school year. Of these, 287 are at primary level and 112 are at post-primary level. These will be added to the existing 3,335 special classes nationwide, increasing the number of special classes by 103% since 2020. In addition, I also directed a school in County Kildare to open two new special classes under section 37A of the Education Act 1998. In total, therefore, from the next academic year, there will be more than 3,700 special classes and 129 special schools in operation throughout the country.  In recent years, the NCSE has advised the Department that after it had sanctioned new special classes, some of the children being offered places in these new special classes were not known to the NCSE. This was having a significant impact on the NCSE's ability to forward plan for the provision of new special classes. To address this issue, the Department of education issued a circular to all schools in October 2024 advising that parents of children seeking special classes or special school places for the 2025-2026 school year would need to notify the NCSE by 1 February. Schools were also asked to ensure that parents of children with special educational needs in mainstream classes who may require a special class were aware of the need to register with the NCSE by 1 February. This circular letter was developed after consultation with school management bodies, special education advocacy groups and the National Parents Council. The NCSE has advised that just under 3,300 valid notifications were received by mid-February last via their new parent notification system. The priority for the NCSE and for the Department has been to ensure that these children and young people are prioritised for enrolment in special classes and in special schools.  Sixteen new special classes have been sanctioned by the NCSE in schools in the Dublin 15 local school planning area for the coming school year. These are part of the overall 98 new special classes being provided across schools in Dublin. This is the single largest provision of new special classes in both Dublin 15 and across Dublin. Two of these new special classes have been sanctioned in St. Mochta\u2019s in Dublin 15. As the Deputies know, this is a large primary school serving the needs of the community in Clonsilla and the surrounding areas.  These are the first special classes to be established at this school and they have been warmly welcomed by all in the local community. I commend the school leadership, the board of management and the school patrons on working closely with the NCSE and my Department to provide these much-needed classes. Regarding the admission of children into the new special classes, the NCSE continues to work closely with the school to try to progress the matters. The Deputies here, as well as Deputy Emer Currie and the Minister, Deputy Chambers, have been highlighting the issue.  As highlighted by the Deputies, an issue has arisen where students already enrolled in mainstream classes in the school but who may require a special class place were brought to the attention of the NCSE after the 1 February timeline.  I can confirm that the Department and the NCSE are making arrangements to meet the school and the school patron bodies today on this matter. I will refer to other matters in my supplementary response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Donnelly  The last paragraph is slightly worrying because in the presentation that was given to us on Monday evening by the principal and the patron of the school, it was stated that the SENO gave a verbal commitment to the school that the deadline of 19 February would be waived for pupils in St. Mochta\u2019s as classes were not sanctioned on this date. The principal met with all parents on 5 March 2025 to advise the parents of the next steps and share commitments from the SENO to waive the deadline of 19 February. All parents contacted the SENO and received eligibility letters from the SENO on dates ranging from 14 March to 7 April 2025, and all parents had a legitimate expectation that they would be offered a place. We are unsure about where the truth lies. There are two different versions of what is going on and that needs to be resolved. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I am glad a meeting is taking place today and, hopefully, things can be resolved. However, I would be extremely concerned if other parents were offered these places and would then have to be told they do not have alternatives. It is a real problem situation. The issue is that, according to the school, it did not have sanction for these two classes by the February deadline and, therefore, it only got the sanction in April and there was an agreement that the February deadline would be waived. That is what we have been told. Hopefully, this can be addressed at the meeting. I repeat that it is good that 16 classes are sanctioned for Dublin 15 but while that sounds like a lot, when we take in the population of the area and the age profile, it is not. We need those classes opened as soon as possible. We still have 12 children waiting for Danu places since last year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I noticed that in the Minister of State\u2019s reply, there is a focus on the 1 February deadline. As colleagues have said, there were no plans to open an ASD class in St. Mochta\u2019s on 1 February and the only agreement on that opening came in April. In April, when the school did agree to open these two classes, it received a verbal agreement that the deadline would be waived for the six children who were in St. Mochta\u2019s. A commitment was given and that commitment has to be realised and fulfilled. I am glad a meeting is taking place. There is now an opportunity to make sure that the six children in St. Mochta\u2019s are able to avail of an appropriate school place and get the support they deserve within the school. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  There is a meeting taking place today with the school and school patrons to try to resolve the issue. Without putting words in anybody's mouth, I know the school authorities and the Department have been in contact and they will have a meeting today. Let us see what happens with that. I would be only too delighted to bring back any information to the Deputies by email or otherwise when we have that information to hand. I accept the seriousness of the issue the Deputies have raised, and there are a number of other issues across Dublin 15 regarding school places and school classes.  There is one thing that I would ask the Deputies. The new circular has set 1 October 2025 as the date for the 2026 school year. I ask the Deputies to get the message out there that we need the information early in the school year in order to plan properly, so we are not in a situation next year where we are heading into the school holidays and do not have places. We need the information earlier. All of the Deputies are working on the ground and know the families. I ask them to get the message out there that the NCSE has to be notified of the information early so we can carry out proper planning and ensure that families are not in a stressful position.  To go back to the issue of St. Mochta\u2019s, a meeting is taking place today. I give an undertaking that, subsequent to that meeting, we will keep all the Deputies informed of how things are progressing. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Nursing Homes: Motion [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":35,"speakerCount":27},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:  notes that:  \u2014 investigative journalism by RT\u00c9 has again exposed distressing and unacceptable practices and conditions in private Irish nursing homes, 20 years on since the Leas Cross scandal;  \u2014 the failure of the State to provide sufficient public long term residential care places has led to the growing privatisation of nursing home care, while the State picks up the majority of costs through the Fair Deal scheme;  \u2014 30 per cent of nursing homes were privately owned 20 years ago, rising to nearly 80 per cent now, with Emeis Ireland one of the largest operators, with 27 nursing homes;  \u2014 research by the Economic and Social Research Institute, since the Covid-19 pandemic, outlines the consolidation of the sector into larger operator groups, and the decline of independently owned, family run nursing homes;  \u2014 there are serious shortcomings in the inspection and enforcement regime by the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA), with inadequate regulatory oversight, ambiguity in the application of existing powers, and a lack of appropriate powers beyond the power to stop admissions or remove a license;  \u2014 there are no minimum staffing levels required in nursing homes, or binding guidance provided to operators;  \u2014 there is no sectoral pay agreement in place, and the 2023 PwC report entitled \"Challenges for Nursing Homes in the Provision of Older Persons Care - Private and Voluntary Nursing Home Sector\", documents a staff turnover rate in the private nursing home sector of up to 38 per cent for nurses, and 54 per cent for healthcare assistants; and  \u2014 the Ombudsman's Wasted Lives: Time for a better future for younger people in Nursing Homes report, updated in 2024, documents that over 1,200 people under 65 remain in nursing homes due to a lack of appropriate alternatives;  recalls that:  \u2014 the French parent company of Emeis Ireland, formerly known as Orpea, required a State-led bailout in 2022, after the publication of Gravediggers, a book exposing the mistreatment of care residents, where the company maximised its profits and dividends to shareholders, based on a complex strategy of drastic cost cutting and the maximum use of public funding; and  \u2014 the Law Reform Commission published a comprehensive report on A Regulatory Framework for Adult Safeguarding in April 2024, and the Programme for Government commits to a new national policy in the health and social sector;  recognises that:  \u2014 the nursing home sector has become dominated by big business, and a for-profit model will not provide the standard of care demanded by families and carers;  \u2014 with an increased role for home care support for older persons in future years, the profile of nursing home patients will become more complex, more dependent, and in need of greater levels of specialised care in the future;  \u2014 increased powers and resourcing for HIQA alone will not resolve concerns about a profit-led model of care;  \u2014 the Covid-19 pandemic exposed the vulnerability of residents in private nursing homes; and  \u2014 the Commission on Care for Older People is examining the provision of health and social care services and supports for older people; and  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 take clear steps to ensure the State takes over the 27 nursing homes controlled by Emeis Ireland;  \u2014 prioritise the quality and safety of care of older persons in overhauling how nursing homes are funded and regulated, and provide HIQA with stronger enforcement powers;  \u2014 fundamentally reform the Fair Deal funding model for nursing homes \u2013 public, private and voluntary, starting with an end to the individualised negotiation process between the National Treatment Purchase Fund and provider, the introduction of service level agreements, ringfencing of funding for labour costs, and the introduction of specific rules relating to the control of the nursing home property and operating company;  \u2014 legislate to ensure minimum safe staffing levels, and implement the outstanding recommendations in the Covid-19 Nursing Homes Expert Panel report, and the 2022 Report of the Strategic Workforce Advisory Group on Home Carers and Nursing Home Healthcare Assistants;  \u2014 require nursing home operators, in receipt of public funding, to recognise trade unions and engage in collective bargaining, to ensure competitive rates of pay, terms and conditions;  \u2014 ensure nursing home operators provide professional development education for staff within working hours, including mandatory safeguarding, infection prevention and control, and dignity at work training;  \u2014 limit all new nursing homes operations to 84 beds, and set out a schedule for all existing nursing homes to transition to an agreed appropriate size with HIQA;  \u2014 ensure the revised National Development Plan includes a funded programme to develop new public long term residential care, through community nursing homes, to meet the needs of our aging population;  \u2014 implement the Law Reform Commission report, by passing the required legislation as a priority in the autumn and establishing an independent national agency;  \u2014 introduce a new Fair Deal for care by implementing the long delayed statutory Home Support Service for Older People scheme, to support older people to age positively in their own home and community;  \u2014 adequately resource the home care sector, to deliver more care in the community and introduce a Fair Deal one-stop-shop, to support families and reduce red tape; and  \u2014 finally implement the recommendations of the 2021 Ombudsman's Wasted Lives: Time for a better future for younger people in Nursing Homes report, and commit to fully funding the under 65s programme office.  We have spent considerable time in recent weeks talking about nursing homes and I want to move that conversation on today. I do not doubt for a moment the personal commitment of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, to reforming the nursing home sector. However, when I read the amendment that was put down to the Labour Party motion, a motion that we designed to improve the nursing home sector, frankly, the amendment is disgraceful. It is completely devoid of any sense of urgency. It is complicit in endorsing a model of care run by big business in Ireland that we believe has to change.  Everything about the response to nursing homes in recent weeks since the \u201cRT\u00c9 Investigates\u201d revelations screams of painfully slow caution. The kid gloves have to come off. We owe it to the older people in this country. I have spoken before about the very difficult decisions that families make to put a loved one into a nursing home. It is an admission that the needs are too great and the capacity in the home or the community is too small. As one woman said to me, for many families, it feels like it is an admission of failure.  Our motion, which I am proud to be proposing on behalf of my colleagues in the Labour Party, seeks to do a number of things but, principally, to mandate the Government to respond with a sense of urgency to the frightening issues that we are now seeing in a number of Emeis nursing homes. I will speak shortly of what was published last night. We want fundamental reform of the fair deal pricing scheme. To be frank, how that scheme is structured and the loose controls around it are driving some of the appalling practices that are currently going on in our nursing homes and in the care of the elderly in this country. Critically, we need legislation to ensure safe staffing levels and protections for staff in nursing homes.  I will ask the Minister of State a question. He has read HIQA\u2019s final report into the 27 Emeis nursing homes and, by the way, he knows that the report is incomplete because a number of reports still have to be progressed. He knows that HIQA had previously found things were fine when they were not. He has seen the alarming findings for Blainroe, The Residence Carton, Brentwood, Kilminchy and Athlunkard. What is he going to do? With all of the information at his disposal, all of the information about the protected disclosures that have been sitting there for two years and all of the information that HIQA effectively failed in its duties, is he prepared to sit around and wait for the nursing homes to transform themselves? The safety and welfare of residents should not be made to wait.  It is worth recalling that protected disclosures were made two years ago about nursing homes that were not covered in the \u201cRT\u00c9 Investigates\u201d programme, where residents were made to sit on commodes unattended for a significant period of time, where kitchen staff were let go and home care assistants diverted into the kitchens away from their tasks looking after residents, and where there was an increase in the number of admissions and no proportional increase in the number of staff. All of that was effectively ignored, and I do not know what happened with HIQA, but it was not addressed. There were failings.  If we are to be honest, if we had a doubt about the care of any of our family in a nursing home, we would not stand around and wait. We would do something immediately. There is a precedent in that the HSE went in to directly operate and manage 13 nursing homes during the pandemic. It was possible then and it should be possible now that the Minister would direct the HSE to go in and directly manage those Emeis nursing homes that have given rise to serious concerns. If we are serious about affording dignity and respect to older people, and providing assurances to them and their families, we need to see decisive action from the Government.  The pedestrian pace of the response from the Government speaks to a wider issue of the gaping holes in how the nursing home sector is regulated and inspected, gaping holes that are no accident. Our parties differ in that we in the Labour Party believe there must be no role for big business in the running of nursing homes in this country, no role for prioritising profit over resident safety and care. Few other sectors have a guaranteed source of income, a regulator that gives a wide berth and the certainty that demand is going to grow enormously in the coming decades. This sector gets \u20ac67.5 million from the State in the fair deal nursing home scheme and it is demanding hundreds of millions extra, with very few conditions attached.  The reality is that we have little or no oversight because many of those companies are unlimited companies. It is a sector where almost half of the beds, 48%, are now in the hands of just 15 operators, seven of which are Irish, four French and the rest German, Spanish, Dutch and Chinese. They are not here for the good of their health.  They are here because they see a serious investment opportunity. They were the figures in 2023 according to CBRE. The situation would be even more concentrated now. This is a sector that saw 26 nursing homes close between 2020 and 2023, the vast majority of them with fewer than 40 beds, while the growth is now in nursing homes with 100 beds or more. Of the 16 nursing homes under construction in 2023, nine had 100 beds or more. Three had 146 beds, 150 beds and 151 beds, respectively. That is not a nursing home; that is a warehouse. All of those have no minimum staffing levels.  This is a sector where the business model has profoundly changed over the last number of years and become increasingly financialised and where REITs will own the building and leech sizeable rents from the operating company. Then we wonder why there is no money for incontinence sheets, gloves and the basic resources to provide some degree of dignity to people in their old age. This is not the type of sector we want to have caring for older people in this country. The State absolutely has to step in and drive the growth of nursing home places, but we cannot take our eye off the ball with regard to private operators. We in the Labour Party believe there has to be a fundamental overhaul of the fair deal pricing scheme. The opaque non-transparent negotiation between operators has to end. We need service level agreements specifying the precise level of care. We need tight restrictions on who owns and controls the operation and building of nursing homes, and we need legislation on minimum levels of staffing care.  In some ways, nursing homes are a misnomer. They are not staffed by nurses. The care is provided by healthcare assistants, yet there are people working in nursing homes who do not have QQI level 5 qualifications. I could rock up to a nursing home in the morning, start work there and then get my qualifications accordingly. That has to change. There are recommendations from the Leas Cross report going back to 2006 that have yet to be implemented. I believe this could be a watershed moment with regard to the revelations we have seen relating to Emeis. This needs to be a watershed moment in how we dramatically and fundamentally overhaul how nursing homes are run in this country. It is within the Minister of State's gift. An awful lot is riding on his efforts. We need, for the dignity and respect of older people in this country, to see a dramatic change in how they are regulated and inspected. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  We need a fair deal for care. This means ending the privatisation of nursing home care and giving older people the choice to age in their own homes and communities, with a statutory right to home care. This right to home care has long been promised by successive Governments since 2017, but we have yet to see any real progress on this. Instead, the only option that older people and their families are faced with is nursing home care. The average length of stay in a nursing home is around three years. This reflects the level of decline that many older people experience due to privatisation, where shareholders are more concerned with profits than the care and well-being of older people. We have seen a small number of multinational corporations and foreign investment funds take a stranglehold on the nursing home sector over the last 20 years. Some 30% of nursing homes were privately owned. That has risen to nearly 80%.  Emeis Ireland is one of the largest operators in this country, with 25 nursing homes, six of which are in my own county, Kildare. The \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme shone a light on the distressing and unacceptable practices of Emeis Ireland. Our motion seeks to address the failures of big business to implement effective measures to provide quality care and basic compassion to older people. As a society, we must accept that the privatisation of care cannot work. It is already a failed model. We need a radical reform of the nursing home sector, with minimum staffing levels, giving stronger enforcement powers to HIQA, and delivering adult safeguarding legislation.  This motion is the start of a national movement where we want to end corporate care and move towards care in the community. We have an ageing population and the demands on healthcare and services will only increase. We must therefore look at our changing demographics and expand the continuation of care for older people through developing infrastructure, implementing a statutory home care scheme and increasing staff to support care in the community and in the home. I note the Minister of State's bona fides from his contributions in this House and the Seanad and that he is determined to facilitate people to \"live in their own homes\".  I have dealt with a number of cases over the last couple of weeks and a huge issue at the moment is where people are waiting for housing adaptation grants from local authorities, yet they cannot move into their homes because those housing adaptation grants have not been sanctioned. Surely an intervention from the Minister of State would allow those people to go back to live in their own homes and allow that bed to be freed up for somebody else. I will allow my colleagues to come in. I hope the Minister of State will listen to this motion today because unfortunately what we have seen in the Government's amendment to the motion is not a Government listening or caring, but a Government promoting privatisation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  The failures of care exposed by the media in recent weeks are not just a failure of one private nursing home operator. This is a failure by our State, a failure of public policy, a failure of regulation, and an abject failure to uphold the dignity of those who have no option but to put their care into others' hands. It would be naive of us to think that we have seen is anything other than the tip of the iceberg. Just look at Aoife Hegarty's reports today. The abuse, the poor care, the corners cut and older men and women lying alone in their own waste are because the company that operates the nursing homes that they call home will not employ the staff they need to appropriately run the places that aligns with the fluffy PR, what we see on their websites, and what they expect to see.  This is the conclusion of two things. One is the calculated and deliberate crowding in of private operators over the course of 25 years, propped up by our own money and a regulatory regime that is hands-off and is not feared by a sector that owns almost 80% of all nursing homes in the State. Combined, this is a recipe for disaster. The perverse irony is that it is those vulnerable, ageing citizens, who paid for the tax incentives to develop a slew of private nursing homes in the 2000s, who are now paying the price themselves in the very homes built on their backs, paying on the double now with their dignity. We have an industry that constantly has its paw out for additional resources from the State. At the very least, if the Minister of State is to sign off on additional fair deal money, the industry should be expected to engage in a joint labour committee, JLC, employment regulation order arrangement for a fairer deal for their workers. This is what the State demands, for example, of the childcare sector, using the JLC system to ensure that State money is properly used to improve the pay and conditions of staff. The same should apply in the nursing home sector.  If we learned anything from the scandalous deaths at Dealgan House Nursing Home in Dundalk in 2020, it should be that there should be a national clinical governance programme, operated by the HSE and applying to all nursing homes. In the other words, in the interests of all older people and all residents, there should be HSE oversight. That should be standard and applied right across the board, whether the nursing home is public or private. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  As someone whose family is lucky enough to be in a position to keep their mother in her home while she requires care, with the help of some wonderful carers and my sister living with her, the spectre of what we saw on our TV screens a number of weeks ago was truly appalling. Families across the country looked on in horror as evil appeared on our screens. I do not need to rehearse all the condemnations that have been rightly chorused, but seeing the footage was a chilling catalogue of all that is bad about the private sector takeover of the care of the elderly in this country. We have a situation where the care of the elderly in some, not all, but a considerable number of units is far from being either caring or considerate.  Yesterday, I listened to an amazing, articulate and well informed woman on my local South East Radio, Dr. Margaret Kennedy. She is part of a campaign called Equality Not Cruelty. Its campaign is focused on the urgent reform of HIQA and ensuring that ill-treatment and violations of dignity, respect and care in residential nursing homes never happens again. This amazing 72-year-old woman, who lives with a neuromuscular disease, succinctly and articulately summed it up for so many in her situation. She said her group spoke for disabled people and older people in its campaign. She said when she saw the images on her television screen, it was clear that older people were being commodified. She said that older people were being warehoused in these places and that money was the root of all the difficulties. Who could disagree? She went on to say that these places are called nursing homes, but nobody should call them homes of any kind, because that is certainly not what they are. She had listened with interest recently to a discussion at an Oireachtas committee where someone from HIQA spoke about a care deficit.  I agree with her that this is an extraordinary phrase to use when describing criminal offences whereby people have been assaulted or criminally abused. That is not a care deficit; it is criminal activity. How can there be 198 abuse reports about Beneavin Manor in Dublin and 40 reports regarding The Residence Portlaoise, but it takes the work of an RT\u00c9 investigative team before we talk about it here in the Oireachtas?  Our motion calls for the nationalisation of the 27 nursing homes controlled by Emeis Ireland. That is the least we can do to send a signal to those sailing close to the wind that we are sick to the teeth of profit driving their motives in looking after some of the most vulnerable people in our society. Like every public service that is overrun by the greed of boardrooms, this sector has once again shown that when it comes to the provision of essential services in the State, greed always trumps the good. The ideology we have seen over the years absolutely fosters that approach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I second the motion. I thank my Labour Party colleagues, particularly Deputies Wall and Sherlock, for their work on it.  I do not for a minute doubt the Minister of State's personal view on this issue but what we saw in the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme proved there absolutely are systemic issues within HIQA. The fact HIQA took more than four months to investigate issues identified by RT\u00c9 is beyond belief. We are talking about care of our much loved older people, who deserve dignity and respect as they age.  Following the programme, staff members of private nursing homes in my county of Cork made contact with my office to inform me of very serious concerns they have raised with management and, in some instances, directly with HIQA. Often, those concerns go unnoticed and receive no response. Accountability is crucial when it comes to care of older people. Families and staff members across the country have spoken about HIQA's failure in its statutory remit to investigate and resolve issues when they arise locally. Ensuring procedures and processes are in place to protect the vulnerable in society is the job of HIQA but it is not happening.  The motion calls on the Government to provide HIQA with stronger enforcement powers. Its staff must have the ability to perform unannounced inspections and see for themselves what the reality is. If we are real with ourselves for a minute, we will acknowledge that HIQA announcing that an inspection will take place makes no sense. The polish is out, the forms are signed and appropriate settings are put in place. If inspectors go in unannounced, they will see for themselves what is actually happening in organisations across the country. It is important to recognise that there are genuine, caring and hard-working care assistants, nurses and doctors working in nursing homes. However, that is not the case across the entire sector.  The motion has a specific focus on the fair deal scheme. That scheme is not fit for purpose. We must introduce a statutory home care scheme that allows our old people to live with dignity and respect in their home and community. The overall focus is on the care being provided to older people.  In a nursing home in my home town of Mallow, as Deputy Sherlock referred to, the kitchen staff are being given the option of redeployment or they will be got rid of completely. The job they have been doing will now be the job of the care assistants. A complete line of work is being taken out. Care assistants may now have to feed people who cannot get out of bed, a job which was previously done by the kitchen staff.  This is one of a number of serious systemic issues. As I said, I do not doubt the Minister of State's personal opinion on this but he has an opportunity, within his Department, to change what is ongoing and to address the systemic failures in care for our older people. HIQA's role in that care must be made an absolute priority for him, his Department and the Government. Families across the country are calling on him to do that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kieran O'Donnell)  I move amendment No. 1:  To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:  \"recognises that:  \u2014 a national policy on adult safeguarding will be introduced for the health and social care sector, as set out in the Programme for Government, and this policy will commit to the development of adult safeguarding legislation for the sector, including nursing homes, and will build on the range of existing legislation, policies, and procedures already in place in the sector for preventing, reporting, and responding to abuse;  \u2014 a framework for safe nurse staffing and skill mix will be developed for nursing homes, and this framework is a systematic, evidence-based approach to determine the number of nurses and Health Care Assistants required to provide safe and quality care, based on patient need\/dependency; and  \u2014 the remaining provision, Section 68 of the Patient Safety (Notifiable Incidents and Open Disclosure) Act 2023, will be commenced, providing additional powers for the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA)\/Chief Inspector with regard to serious patient safety incidents in nursing homes, and the Chief Inspector will have the power to carry out a review of an incident which may have caused an unintended or unanticipated death or serious injury to the patient, and which occurred in the course of the provision of care to that patient;  notes that:  \u2014 a review will be established of the effectiveness of the Chief Inspector's inspection and monitoring processes, and this review will include such elements as how to further strengthen the monitoring of leadership, culture and governance in designated centres, how to better capture indicators of staff culture and other areas of service delivery, which is critical for safe and good quality support for residents;  \u2014 a plan for additional public nursing home bed capacity will be published, and the Department of Health, alongside the Health Service Executive, is currently developing a new public long-term residential care additional capacity plan, which will be published in 2025, and the delivery of additional public long-term residential care capacity is required to deliver on Programme for Government, Sl\u00e1intecare, and Project Ireland 2040 commitments;  \u2014 new design standards for long-term residential care settings for older people across all sectors will be created, describing what good building design looks like for long-term residential care settings for older people, and providing a common benchmark against which the standard of these settings can be measured, and the Department of Health report entitled 'Design Guide for Long-Term Residential Care Settings for Older People Public Consultation Report', was published in January 2025;  \u2014 ownership structures will be reviewed to enhance transparency and strengthen accountability in the long-term residential care sector, and carrying out an evaluation of the implications of complex corporate ownership structures against current regulatory powers will identify opportunities for regulatory reform;  \u2014 the Government has reiterated its well-established commitment to the development of the statutory home care scheme in the 2025 Programme for Government, and the first element in delivering this is the Health (Amendment) (Licensing of Professional Home Support Providers) Bill 2024, which will establish a licensing framework for professional home support services and provide for regulation by HIQA;  \u2014 the Programme for Government commits to strengthening the nursing home sector, by increasing funding for the Nursing Homes Support Scheme, also known as Fair Deal, while investment in Budget 2025 was \u20ac67.6 million, and this followed on from an increase in 2024 of \u20ac45 million; and  \u2014 the Government established an independent Commission on Care for Older People, which is charged with examining the provision of health and social care services and supports for older people, and with making recommendations to the Government for their strategic development, including long term residential care; and  further notes that from 2021 to 2025, the Government provided funding of \u20ac21.4 million, to enable people under the age of 65 to transition to an alternative community-based placement and provide in situ supports as appropriate.\".  I welcome the opportunity to address the House on matters raised in respect of nursing homes in the Private Members' motion tabled by the Labour Party. I do not doubt Members' sincerity in bringing it forward. We all want to get to a point where we have a better, fitter nursing home service for the elderly.  I again acknowledge the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme that was broadcast on 4 June. That hard-hitting and harrowing programme highlighted a litany of poor care standards in two nursing homes, namely, the Residence Portlaoise and Beneavin Manor in Glasnevin, and showed clear neglect and abuse of older people. The welfare of both the residents and their families was obviously at the forefront of my concerns following the RT\u00c9 programme. I am very conscious of the impact the programme will have had on the residents, their families and the staff in the nursing homes featured in the broadcast. I am also conscious of the impact it will have had on the nursing home sector more generally, including residents and staff. It is important to acknowledge, as all speakers have, the committed, compassionate and dedicated providers and care staff operating in nursing homes across the country.  Like everyone else watching the programme, I was shocked and deeply concerned at the level of non-compliance with care standards in evidence from the distressing footage that was aired. I again state categorically that every nursing home resident deserves, and should expect, the highest standards of care at all times. Poor care, mistreatment, neglect or any other form of abuse of any person living in a long-term residential care centre is completely unacceptable. I expect the highest standards of care to be upheld by providers for every resident in every nursing home across the country. Anything less than that will simply not be tolerated. I welcome the confirmation that referrals have been made to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na.  I have had significant engagement with HIQA and with key stakeholders in the nursing home sector, including the HSE and representative bodies from the sector. I am continuing this engagement with an immediate focus on delivering the highest quality of care to the residents of nursing homes in Ireland. Responsibility for the safety and care of residents ultimately rests with the individual provider of each nursing home and its staff. The governance and management of nursing homes is a critical aspect in ensuring the safety and welfare of all residents. Staff must be equipped with the tools and supports they need to provide those in residential care with person-centred care.  As the national independent regulator of nursing homes in Ireland, I expect HIQA and its chief inspector to utilise all powers available to them to ensure rigorous oversight and accountability in nursing home care. HIQA's role is to ensure the systems, structures and processes put in place by a nursing home work to ensure safe and effective care and support for those in residential care. Department officials and I met with HIQA on 4 June to discuss regulatory activity relating to the nursing homes featured in the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme. At the meeting, HIQA's chief inspector confirmed its continuous intensive engagements with the two nursing homes in question.  On 13 June, as requested, HIQA furnished me with an interim report on its engagement with the two nursing homes featured in the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme. That interim report was published on 17 June. It details HIQA's inspection of the two nursing homes since the programme was broadcast and its ongoing work in this regard. It also provides a brief overview of the Emeis Ireland group. HIQA has completed a series of unannounced inspections of both nursing homes, in the evening, in the early hours of the morning and during the day, to ascertain the level of care being provided at all times. Both providers were issued with an official warning of cancellation of registration should they fail to implement significant improvements in the care of residents.  On 20 June, as requested, I received a further report from HIQA giving an overview of the 25 nursing homes in the Emeis Ireland group. The report provides a comprehensive overview of regulatory history, including, but not limited to, regulatory compliance, escalating enforcement actions and any additional conditions of registration. That report was published yesterday.  The Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and I, together with Department of Health officials, met with HIQA on 17 June and on 30 June to discuss both reports. At those meetings, HIQA advised it is continuing its intensive engagement with the Emeis Ireland group of nursing homes. The contents and findings of both reports are being considered, including the need for additional regulatory powers in respect of nursing homes, with actions in this regard to be taken as a matter of priority. I cannot emphasise enough that this is an absolute priority for me and the Government.  HIQA has acknowledged the importance of examining its processes and methodology. It is essential that they are continually reviewed to find ways to improve the inspection and regulation of nursing homes. HIQA is undertaking a review of the effectiveness of the chief inspector's inspection and monitoring processes.  This review will include such elements as how to further strengthen the monitoring of leadership, culture, governance and management in nursing homes, how to better capture indicators of staff culture and other areas of service delivery that are critical for safe and good quality care for residents.  I have requested that, when compliance issues are identified in a nursing home, HIQA monitor more closely the corrective actions taken by the nursing home towards achieving compliance and that this information be included in HIQA's published reports. This makes common sense. When a report is published at present, it deals with what happened on the day of the inspection. I want the report not to deal with the day of the inspection but the compliance actions required to be implemented and whether they were implemented. A report is in real time. When people read inspection reports on the HIQA website, they will see not only what happened on the day of the inspection but also what has happened since. When they are looking for a nursing home for their loved ones, they will know what the situation is now. That is very important. I have asked HIQA to implement this and it will do so.  It is acknowledged that the nursing home sector has evolved in Ireland over the past 30 years from a predominantly State-led service to a situation today where approximately 80% of nursing home services are provided by the private sector. I am fully aware of the investment trends in the Irish long-term residential care market, the growing consolidation of the sector and the complex investment and ownership structures that now exist. Deputies have referenced that in almost all of the contributions. It is, therefore, important that all aspects of the nursing home sector be scrutinised over the coming period to ensure that service delivery and configuration meet the needs of service users in a sustainable and safe manner.  This scrutiny includes a review of ownership structures to enhance transparency and strengthen accountability in the long-term residential care sector. Carrying out an evaluation of the implications of complex corporate ownership structures against current regulatory powers will identify the required regulatory reforms. As it stands, HIQA can regulate the individual company that is the service provider but does not have jurisdiction over the parent company or the umbrella group. I want that changed and we will implement that.  The chief inspector of HIQA will soon have additional powers with regard to serious patient safety incidents in nursing homes when section 68 of the Patient Safety (Notifiable Incidents and Open Disclosure) Act 2023 is commenced. The chief inspector will have the power to carry out a review of an incident that may have caused an unintended or unanticipated death or serious injury to a patient and occurred in the course of the provision of care to that patient.  The Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and I are fully committed to introducing an adult safeguarding policy for the health and social care sector, including nursing homes. The policy will commit to the development of adult safeguarding legislation for the sector, including nursing homes, and will build on the range of existing legislation, policies and procedures already in place in the sector for preventing, reporting and responding to abuse. The policy is at an advanced stage and our intention is to bring it to the Government as a matter of priority. The Government has included a health (adult safeguarding) Bill in its current legislative programme to facilitate this, and it is recognised that this will be an important further development in protecting vulnerable adults from abuse.  I would also like to advise the House of ongoing work by the Department of Health to develop a framework for a safe staffing and skill mix for long-term residential care settings for older people. The framework is a systematic evidence-based approach to determine the number of nurses and healthcare assistants required to provide safe and quality care based on patient need. This work is nearing completion, and I expect to receive recommendations for how it can be implemented shortly. Furthermore, in my discussions with HIQA, I have asked it to ensure that, where there is a change in the staff profile in a nursing home, there be a requirement to notify HIQA. This is a very important point. It is a practical measure that can be taken by HIQA.  The Government is committed to continued investment in healthcare infrastructure that supports the highest quality of care for our older population. It is recognised that long-term residential care will continue to be a crucial part of the overall continuum of care. The programme for Government commits to building more public nursing home beds and, in this context, the Department of Health, alongside the HSE, is developing a new public long-term residential care additional capacity plan, which will be published in 2025. The delivery of additional public long-term residential care capacity will deliver on programme for Government, Sl\u00e1intecare and Project Ireland 2040 commitments. This plan will be informed by the HSE capacity review report on future capacity for older people, which was published on Monday by the ESRI.  We have spoken about the built environment. It is of paramount importance that the built environment and location of long-term residential care settings support high-quality care and positive experiences for our older population. The Government is, therefore, committed to creating new design standards for long-term residential care settings for older people across all sectors, providing a common benchmark against which the standard of these settings can be measured.  Statutory home care is a priority for me. I am working on the legislation for home care providers, which will be the first step. I will look to bring it to the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and the wider Government as a matter of priority. We are increasing funding for home care. With regard to the age profile of the population, we have set up the Commission on Care for Older People and it will shortly publish the first module of the work it has done.  I, as Minister of State with responsibility for older people, the Minister, Deputy Carol MacNeill, and the wider Government are committed to ensuring everything possible is done so that the distressing scenes we witnessed in the recent \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme do not happen again in any nursing home in the country. I want to state clearly that every nursing home resident deserves and shall expect the highest standard of care. My abiding concern is older people in nursing homes. Everything is about improving care and safety for them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  What was shown on the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme - well done to those who made it - was disgraceful. We have many fine private nursing homes, but when we allow the development of a for-profit model for investors - there are large-scale investors in a large proportion of these nursing homes, as the Minister of State knows - that have borrowed money at low interest rates and there is no sectoral agreement on workers, we are looking for trouble.  We have a lax regulatory regime whereby HIQA simply does not have the powers in respect of this sector that it should have, as the Minister of State has acknowledged, to be fair. The \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme happened because we let it happen. HIQA was in nursing homes not long before the programme was made and it took a significant period of time before it reassessed one. This is when things fall through the cracks.  We have a real problem in this country when it comes to managing nursing home care and care for the elderly. We need a complete reboot of the statutory home care scheme to support people to stay in their homes. There is the scandalous issue of the thousands of under-65s who are left in nursing home care.  There are practical measures we need to take. In the new national development plan, we need massive public investment in public nursing homes. We need one in Roscrea. It has been promised for decades. To be fair to the people of Roscrea, I do not think there is any town in Ireland that is more deserving of a proper nursing home to replace the Dean Maxwell. We need them all over the country.  We also need to start giving consideration to our demographics, in particular how many people will be over the age 65, 70 and 80 in the years to come. We are not prepared for this. I speak with a lot of knowledge on this. We are not preparing for issues relating to more and more people living longer and having dementia.  The type of care we provide also needs to change. Many public nursing homes have to take high-dependency patients purely because private nursing homes cannot, in some cases, take them or, perhaps in a minority of cases, will not take them, something the Minister of State knows. I know this because I have tabled parliamentary questions, the replies to which show that, in many cases, people are left in hospitals for months, if not years.  Collectively, we need large-scale public investment in nursing homes. We need a sectoral agreement to pay workers properly. We need a regulatory regime that ensures these people are not let down and nursing homes and the standards they have to maintain do not fall through the cracks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I commend my colleagues, Deputies Sherlock and Wall, for tabling the motion. All of us in the House were outraged by the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme, which showed the appalling levels of abuse and malpractice in older people's care settings. These are some of the most vulnerable people in our society. They depend on the help of others to meet their basic needs, as any one of us here might well need some day.  To see the conditions these older people were living in, and the routine violation of their human dignity, was shocking. It is incredibly upsetting to consider that any of our relatives living in long-term residential care could face the same indignities and abuse. These abuses are widespread and long term. We have heard the pleas of care champions and other relentless campaigners who continue to call for a statutory inquiry into the mistreatment and neglect in our nursing homes, which had particularly devastating effects during Covid.  The proliferation of private providers is at the heart of this issue. For me, the key takeaway from the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme was that the State's failure to provide sufficient care for older people through home care and residential care has enabled the ever-increasing privatisation of the nursing home sector. We can clearly see that a model of profit maximisation above all else will never provide adequate and dignified care to those who need it.  In almost all cases, people who require care and personal support, including older people, would prefer the care to be delivered in the comfort of their own home and community. The Irish Longitudinal Study on Ageing and the ESRI have both reported that institutionalisation is being imposed on many older people and disabled people who should, and wish to instead, be enabled to live at home and be included in their community. This is their right under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.  As a State, we have institutionalised people as a default social care response. From the Magdalen laundries, to psychiatric institutions, to direct provision, to congregated care settings in nursing homes, again and again these systems, profit making and the lack of State regulation involved have been shown to cause serious abuse.  Our current home care system is not fit for purpose either and this needs to change if we are to get out of this never-ending cycle of coercive and neglectful institutionalisation. Much of our home care system is privatised yet we have been speaking about statutory regulation of home care and a statutory entitlement to home care for decades. These promises were included in the programmes for Government in 2016 and in 2020. Now, the current programme for Government commits to designing a statutory home care scheme. After all this time how are we just getting to a design stage? We are now in the third successive Fine Gael Government that has committed to statute-based home care. Is it hoping for third time lucky?  We know the best outcomes for older people in terms of their health and well-being are when they can remain in their own homes and communities and receive the care they need there. Home and community-based care, and residential care that is embedded in and open to community participation, is best for all of us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  I thank my colleagues, Deputies Wall and Sherlock, for tabling this important motion. The care system is increasingly in crisis. From cradle to grave, we have seen care farmed out to private investors who think of profits and not people. The current crisis is driven by two factors in particular. These are the natural ageing of the population and the State's hands-off approach to providing care. We have seen a shift towards privatisation in the commodification of care and the outsourcing of our own social responsibility. While the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme was shocking, unfortunately many families who have placed loved ones in care knew this was inevitable. Many complaints have gone unanswered or uninvestigated. There are serious shortcomings in HIQA's inspection and enforcement regime. The high staff turnover rate creates a damaging cycle that compromises the quality of care that people receive and this alone demands urgent attention.  Care for older people must be reframed as an essential part of our social infrastructure, on a par with education, health and housing. Nursing homes should not be the default solution for ageing. Instead, they should be reserved for situations where end-of-life or intensive medical care is genuinely required. They are certainly not for people under the age of 65 due to a lack of appropriate alternatives. The priority should be on delivering care in the community, allowing older people to thrive and live with dignity and independence in their own homes for as long as possible.  Just yesterday, a journalist outside asked how much this was going to cost. That question is everything that has gone wrong with how we do care. We should be outraged that the first concern is the price tag and not the person who needs the care in later life. We cannot and should not put a monetary figure on dignity, well-being or the rights of older citizens. Caring for older people is not a cost to be calculated; it is a fundamental responsibility of any decent society. We owe them care not because it is profitable but because it is right.  We have seen a shift in the valuation of care economically and socially. Mainstream economic thinking often treats care as a cost rather than a vital investment in people and society. The commodification of care has prioritised cost efficiency over individualised high-quality care. This is also evident in the treatment of our care workers. Care provision is predominantly delivered by the private sector, even though it is largely funded through the public purse. This work remains low paid, insecure, under-regulated and undervalued. Many workers lack basic protections and benefits. If private nursing homes are to be funded by the public purse, they should not block trade unions organising to make sure they have decent pay and conditions. We need a new approach that resets care as a public good and not a private commodity. The future of care lies in public investment, community-based services and the priority of people over profit. It is time we moved away from a nursing home default model and towards a system that truly supports older people to live full and dignified lives. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan  I thank the Labour Party for tabling the motion. All of us here at some stage will have to think about whether our parents will be in need of nursing home care. It is a very difficult and uncomfortable conversation for any family. It is something we would all like to think our parents will not need but this simply is not how life goes.  We put immense faith in these nursing home providers that they will show love and compassion to the people who raised us as they reach a vulnerable stage of their lives. The \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" report has shattered this faith. It showed that despite more than 200 complaints being made about one nursing home, no action was taken against it. The HIQA report showed clearly this nursing home was not only non-compliant but repeatedly non-compliant, with little evidence it was even trying to improve its standards. There were residents with bedsores and bruises. Calls for help went unanswered. There were incidents of starvation, deprivation of liberty, a lack of dignity, a lack of respect and a lack of care. How did the operator get away with it? There was not a single cent in financial fines. Where is the accountability?  How did it take an \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" report and not the concerns of family members and loved ones for action to be taken? What kind of message does this send out to families who have concerns about the care being provided to their loved ones? How upsetting and distressing these past few weeks must have been for the loved ones of residents in that nursing home is unimaginable.  The consequences of successful Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Governments are being laid bare. There has been a complete and utter failure by Governments to put in place robust and effective policies and regulations. There has been a push for a model of privatisation, with fast and loose regulations, and a failure to provide HIQA with the powers it needs to effectively police the sector. We have seen scandal after scandal exposing these failures and neglect but what we have not seen is action from Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael.  There is still no adult safeguarding legislation in place. This legislation must establish an independent safeguarding authority with real powers and resources to act on individual clinical concerns. There must be mandatory reporting of concerns of abuse and neglect. HSE safeguarding teams should be brought under the remit of this authority and these teams need to be significantly expanded to do their job. Safeguarding teams and social workers must be given a legal right of entry and be permitted to investigate concerns, unannounced, at any time. Furthermore, where management and corporation leadership make decisions that lead to poor quality care and the loss of the health or life of residents in the care of the service for which they are responsible, there must be accountability.  We need to see a step change in Government policy, one that will invest in building capacity in public nursing homes and residential homes. Sinn F\u00e9in has proposed a home first approach to care, backed by a statutory home care scheme that forces the system to redirect resources to home care. The current laws are clearly not working, and for almost 20 years everyone has been telling the Government that they are not enough. It is now three weeks since the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" report. What will it take to finally see some action from the Government?  More than 80% of nursing home beds are provided by the private sector. This is the Government's answer to everything but it is simply not working.  What we have seen on RT\u00c9 is just the tip of the iceberg. I certainly would not like to end up in one of these nursing homes, nor would I want one of my loved ones to be treated like an animal. If I treated the animals on our farm badly, with dirty beds, starving them, etc., I would be prosecuted. Why are people treated with such neglect, calling and pleading to use the bathroom and left to lie in their own urine as punishment? Is this where our Government is at, letting big business make huge profits by mistreating our older people?  Speaking as a carer, this is not what we want. I was in the public sector. HIQA had the authority to come into our place. There were two HIQA inspectors for three residents. We cannot expect two HIQA inspectors to go into a nursing home with 90, 70 or however many patients. There have to be more. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  When I think of HIQA, I am often reminded of an article about the British royal family that stated that they believed that everything outside of Buckingham Palace smelled like fresh paint. HIQA is probably the same. Announced inspections are not working and give people far too much time. There have to be unannounced inspections. HIQA needs to be better resourced. None of us wants our loved ones to be treated in such a manner. That is a given and we do not need to see it. However, HIQA is sometimes all that stands between a vulnerable person and mistreatment. The Government - I was about to say \"we\", but I am taking no responsibility for this - should give HIQA the powers it needs.  In 2004, the Rostrevor nursing home was investigated by the health board. On one occasion, bed sores on an elderly incontinent patient were found to have been contaminated by faecal matter. Before prosecutions even took place, the health board went to the High Court to try to have the home shut down. There was evidence that staffing, training and drug administration rules had all been breached. One nurse had been rostered for 72 hours in one week. No fire drills were carried out, despite residents smoking in their rooms. The owners at the time, the Lipsetts, argued that they had resolved the problems. There were no powers to shut the home down at that stage. The owner was struck off the nursing register because she failed to act on sexual abuse allegations. That happened between 2004 and 2005. Miche\u00e1l Martin was the Minister for Health and Children for part of that time. In 2011, I had occasion to be in that nursing home when it was eventually shut down. If I live to be 1,000 years old, I will never forget what I saw and heard from the people working there. The way in which the residents were treated shocked me to my very core. I did not think it was possible that people could be treated in that manner. It was very shocking. The workers were treated every bit as badly as the patients and residents in the nursing home.  Two weeks ago, I sat in my constituency office for well over an hour with a woman whose dad had been a resident in the Beneavin Manor nursing home. She detailed to me the litany of complaints she had made on behalf of her father. She had brought them to the attention of HIQA, the owner and the upper people in the nursing home. It was during Covid. Her dad was only allowed to have one visit, but he got that one visit every single day. Hard and all as it was for her to live it, it was hard to hear about it as well. I thought afterwards about the people who did not have anybody to speak up for them. She was in every day to see her dad and she could still see he was being mistreated. What about the people who do not have anyone to speak up for them? That is why HIQA is supposed to be there. That is why we need the adult safeguarding legislation. We need the Government to stop talking about it because talking about it is interfering with the Government actually doing something about it. We really need to see that legislation, not just a \"strong commitment\". We need to have a conversation about privatisation. When profit motive is introduced into the care of vulnerable people, this is the inevitable consequence. Privatisation is Government policy; it needs to be reversed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Johnny Mythen  I thank the Labour Party for bringing this important motion to the floor. The statistics alone tell the true story of long-term residential care in our country. More than 80% of nursing homes are now owned by private bodies, with Emeis Ireland being by far the largest operator, owning more than 27 premises in total. When private companies are driven solely by profit, whose solidarity and loyalty only lie with their shareholders and their main goal is to increase dividends, there is a high level of risk that the residents themselves will become a secondary element in such a financially motivated model. This explains why the system is subject to bad conditions, bad-quality service, cutting corners such as staff shortages, low wages, and unavailable medical devices and supplies, as was exposed by the recent \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme on 4 June. What is needed is the State to assist and fund smaller community nursing homes and to invest in public nursing homes and community beds. Many of these small homes provide excellent-quality services to their residents. More often than not, they personally know the residents and their families as well.  Unfortunately, in my hometown of Enniscorthy, the Moyne Nursing Home recently closed, with the loss of 30 jobs. The management, the Earle family, stated: \"For the past nine years we have put our blood, sweat and tears into making Moyne Nursing Home the home from home that it is today.\" The family stated: \"Since we took over the running of the home back in 2013 we have prided ourselves on providing the highest standards of care to our residents\". The family also stated that adequate funding was not provided by the Government to ensure adequate standards set by HIQA were met.  Safeguarding legislation must be introduced and an independent safeguarding authority established, as our spokesperson on health, David Cullinane, has advocated for many years now. The reporting of concerns about abuse and neglect must be made mandatory and whistleblowers must be protected. The Government must act now. More than 820,000 citizens are older than 65 years of age. With the prediction of a steady and substantial increase in the next two decades, this must ring alarm bells. A comprehensive social policy to support independent living must be implemented. A sea change in the State's current policy of privatising nursing homes must be radically invoked or we will be facing many more scandals in the near future like that exposed by RT\u00c9. The State must bear a duty of care to our ageing population. I ask the Government to please support this motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  In recent years, I have had the privilege to work with Pat Coyle and the Care Champions, a group that came into existence because of what happened to their loved ones during the Covid pandemic and how badly they were treated. Their stories are heartbreaking. I have witnessed the guilt and the hurt they feel because of the way their loved ones were treated. They feel their loved ones were abandoned. Care Champions and Pat Coyle have tried to engage with the Government in a constructive manner. They are not about pointing fingers of blame. They want to ensure that what happened to their loved ones will never happen to anyone again. They want to be positive and constructive, not negative.  The Care Champions just want to work with the Government and the Opposition so that people in nursing homes or hospitals, vulnerable older people and vulnerable sick or disabled people are not let down the way they were let down. To listen to their stories and hear how they feel about what happened to their families was just heartbreaking. They have made freedom of information requests, they have looked for meetings, and they have looked for the Government to implement the changes that were supposed to come about after what happened during the Covid-19 crisis. This has not happened. The Government is now talking about an inquiry. There will have to be a proper, full, open and honest inquiry, not an inquiry that is going to pay people, but an inquiry to get to the facts of what happened so that these people can have their stories and voices heard.  The \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme was horrendous. Care Champions told us the organisation is not surprised but, based on what it has found out in its own investigations, it is surprised that other people are surprised. The scenes in the programme were absolutely disgusting. Some 200 complaints were made against one nursing home, yet it took RT\u00c9 to highlight the issue, and fair play to it. RT\u00c9 can be criticised at times, sometimes rightly, but in this case its journalists did really important work to try to protect vulnerable older people when the State and HIQA were letting them down. Action needs to be taken.  How many other nursing homes are operating in the same manner? One of the hardest decisions a person or family can ever make is to put someone into a nursing home. Recently, a member of my family who is sick had to go into a nursing home while recovering. We could only visit between 2 p.m. and 4 p.m. That is no good for anyone who is working. I am lucky we have a good family and people are flexible and able to manage things. In the hospital, we were only allowed visits from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., so there were no visits during the day. We should encourage more people to visit vulnerable people, not reduce access to them.  All of this is coming about because of a privatisation agenda that Fine Gael, supported by Fianna F\u00e1il, has driven for decades. We see money and profit being put before people. How can that be right?  A nursing home owned by the State, Heather House at St. Mary's health campus in Gurranabraher, had a brand new dementia unit built and it has been lying empty for over a year because of a lack of resources and staff. At a time when people are crying out for dementia places in nursing homes the Heather House dementia unit is lying idle. The Minister of State needs to act on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  It is hard to believe we are back here again. It is 20 years since the Leas Cross case, which led to a commission of investigation and the establishment of HIQA. Like many of my colleagues, I believe HIQA needs to be given some of the powers it has requested. As Deputy O'Reilly said, we need some facility for unannounced visits of a particular type. We cannot be utterly reliant on \"Prime Time\" to safeguard our older people. We have huge levels of failings. It is crazy to think that 200 complaints were made about a particular nursing home and nothing was done about it. Everyone has said we have an issue with privatisation, accepting that there are good private and public nursing homes. We need to make sure all of them are good. The Government has walked away from the public system. In everything this Government touches, there is an overreliance on the private sector. In the nursing home sector, 81% of homes are private and 19% are public. This is not good enough and it means the likes of Emeis Ireland are a major part of home care. Without safeguards, there are huge questions to answer.  Any time I talk about nursing homes I find it difficult not to deal with Dealgan House and the 22 families who lost loved ones in the early period of 2020 during Covid. They, like Care Champions and many other advocates, are not impressed by the Government's approach to that. I do not even know what the term is because it is hardly an inquiry. It is a review of the period of Covid-19. We need some sort of compellability. We have heard the Taoiseach and many others speak about what they do not want to see in relation to commissions of inquiry or commissions of investigation. That is fine but it is not fine to be a commentator. The Government has the power to decide what type of inquiry can be initiated, with whatever checks and balances are required. That is what we need.  We really have to get real about delivering a home first policy to facilitate those in their own home to be helped by their families. This will require a statutory support scheme that is up to scratch. We need to see the adult safeguarding legislation delivered. This has been necessary for a long time and has been spoken about for far too long in this House. We need to make sure all those necessary pieces are put in place.  When we are talking about residential care----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell)  Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  -----there is still a particular issue with the capital assistance scheme. I spoke to the Minister for housing about it. It needs to be delivered. It is creating an issue because those who should be getting disability housing in St. John of God services and other services cannot get it because the councils are not able to deliver and the funding is put in with the tenant in situ scheme and the rest. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell)  Your time is up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Apologies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  I commend the Labour Party on its motion. We fully support it. It has been an honour to meet in recent weeks with Safeguarding Ireland, Care Champions, and the Irish Association of Social Workers to discuss adult safeguarding and systemic problems within our nursing home sector and other care facilities. I look forward to engaging with Inclusion Ireland, Sage Advocacy and others to this end in the coming weeks and months.  There is consensus among the advocacy groups that the Law Reform Commission report into adult safeguarding, published last year, is the roadmap that we need to follow to implement comprehensive adult safeguarding legislation and to establish a national safeguarding authority. It is worth mentioning that, following the Farrelly commission report, a lot of commentary reflected on the fact that the commission of inquiry was extremely expensive, did not produce clear recommendations and was very unsatisfactory in many ways. If we had a national safeguarding authority, it would greatly reduce, if not entirely eliminate, the need for these commissions and tribunals. It would have a safeguarding focus in how it conducts investigations.  Safeguarding Ireland has highlighted that the Bill currently proposed by the Government in its legislative agenda is too narrow in scope and would be a missed opportunity if pursued. It is vital, therefore, that we go back to the Law Reform Commission's report.  The recent \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme, which brought adult safeguarding back into sharp focus, documented appalling standards of care at two nursing homes that form part of one of the largest private for-profit care providers in the State. It was chilling and terribly sad to witness the casual neglect of and repeated insults to the dignity of those nursing home residents. Profiteering and the care for some of our most vulnerable citizens do not go hand in hand. A major overhaul of our care system is needed.  The \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme documented abject failures to respect the basic care needs and dignity of nursing home residents as an everyday occurrence. These are yet more examples of how our care system is failing vulnerable adults and is subject to poor oversight, a lack of mandatory reporting structures and weak enforcement powers. While the content of the programme was shocking, many people were not surprised by these patterns of mistreatment. These patterns are likely not isolated to this particular nursing home provider. For me, a stand-out moment of the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme was when the more experienced care assistant advised a colleague that she too had notions of a better system at the outset of her career. She said:  I know you feel sorry and I feel sorry for everybody here. They do not go out, the activities are shit, all this system is shit, you understand, but this is how it is, you know. Ours is just to do our job and to go home. I wouldn't put my mother here, even if it was my last breath.  That exchange captured how basic empathy can gradually break down in a service that is under so much strain, where there are not enough staff to share the workload and where items for attending to the basic care needs of residents are not provided. We cannot let a sense of inevitability set in that this is just how it is now for elder care.  The need for comprehensive adult safeguarding legislation has been repeatedly raised by the interest groups I mentioned.  It has been highlighted in particular following the Leas Cross scandal 20 years ago, the \u00c1ras Attracta scandal in 2014 and the Brandon, Grace and Emily cases, and the Government has failed to act. Unlike with child protection, there is no single, comprehensive adult safeguarding law in Ireland. Instead, adult safeguarding relies on a patchwork of legislation, policy documents and fragmented departmental responsibilities. There does not appear to be an ideological barrier that I can identify to explain why the necessary legislation has not been pursued. The only conclusion I can draw is that successive Governments have neglected this area because they have not felt sufficient political heat on the matter. It is incumbent on all of us to ensure that it retains the focus it currently has. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  I thank the Members of the Labour Party for bringing forward such an important motion. I thank the Minister of State for his opening statement, which is comprehensive, but it is unfortunate to see the Government amendment and what is contained in it. We have spent a considerable amount of time speaking about this since the TV programmes aired and the experiences highlighted. Profit can never be the guiding principle for care. If we use that as a starting point when we discuss reform, we will all start to see we agree with each other much more than we differ in terms of ideology. Over the past 30 years, we have allowed the sector to move from being a public good to a profit-making endeavour for the majority. How this manifests itself is in the experiences highlighted by the \"Prime Time Investigates\" programme and many more.  I have spoken to staff in those settings. They have spoken about their hurt as the weeks and months have gone on. For many, it misrepresented the love, care and compassion they have for the work they do. They have also highlighted concerns in relation to the response and we have seen that now in terms of admissions being stopped. It is said there is an element of window dressing in settings now where we are seeing staff numbers being considerably increased in the last weeks and months as a response. Why it took such revelations is beyond me. Why businesses are allowed to operate relatively free of control is a starting point that we should consider.  Profit cannot be the guiding principle for care. The Minister of State will agree with me on that. I think we all agree with that. If that is the starting point, then we acknowledge that reform is needed through HIQA and the HSE. It starts with us considering a move back from the 80% private dependence to a much more publicly-funded and publicly-regulated sector. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  Trust in nursing homes has been lost. With everything that has come to light in recent months, the one overwhelming response, which really concerns me deeply, is that people are now afraid of nursing homes, or perhaps more afraid, because revelations like these have been coming out for decades. Old age should come with a security and a certainty that a person's needs are met, they are safe and they treated with dignity. It is the duty of policymakers to not only address the issues raised by the recent abuses which have come to light, but also to rebuild this broken trust. We need a system that is both safe and trusted. Without both, we are not delivering that vital security to people and their families.  Unfortunately, as we have heard from many today, this is the natural product of privatisation of care. When care work is conducted on a for-profit basis, we encourage the work to be done to as close to the bare minimum of standards as possible. I have worked in both the private and public sectors - not in the care sector - but it is a simple fact that in a for-profit environment, the bottom line is it. Everything that is done in such an environment is for profit; it has to be because that is what the organisation is set up for. The public sector is a very different environment, where there is either a mandate or a job to do that is not driven by money. We have to get our heads around that when we are thinking about the provision of care in this State.  People who work in nursing homes around the country tell us about the chronic short staffing, the lack of oversight and the lack of resourcing. These conditions are a recipe for disaster for people living in nursing homes who are then vulnerable to that poor treatment. We did not need an RT\u00c9 programme to tell us this. Any healthcare assistant around the country could do exactly that.  As this motion points out, 80% of nursing homes in the State are now in private hands. Without addressing the failure of the State to provide nursing home care, to provide for safe staffing levels and to take responsibility for the care of older people, we will not see the change that we need.  I have mentioned one piece of legislation in previous debates and I want to raise it again. The Inspection of Places of Detention Bill has been delayed multiple times. It provides for what many people have talked about here today, namely the unannounced visits. The Bill has the remit and jurisdiction to potentially deal with nursing homes. I encourage the Government to look at that as something that could bolster the remit of HIQA and give it the powers it needs.  We will be supporting this motion. I commend the work of the Labour Party on bringing it forward. As with other Deputies, I share a real rejection of what the Government has put forward as a countermotion, because it simply fails to recognise the urgency and the importance of this issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  I thank the Labour Party for putting forward this very important motion on nursing homes. I support it and its calls to prioritise equality and safety in the care of older people. Overhauling nursing homes is what we need to look at. As someone who has worked on the ground and worked for the company involved in the documentary, I am not surprised. To say that 80% of nursing homes are now in private hands and are profit driven is beyond a joke at this stage. I have worked in nursing homes and I can safely say that every aspect of those homes is profit driven. It goes from the food people are given to the deodorant and the soap they use. It is a shocking indictment of society that everyone has to go around their nursing home smelling the same and looking the same. If it comes to it, they have to buy clothes for people. That is how bad it is. If their clothes are damaged, the nursing home may not provide them with clothes. The person's relatives might be in another part of the country. That company in the documentary would not necessarily be just looking after old people. It could be a mix of people in the home. It is profit driven. We need to emphasise that we have lost humanity when profit comes before our elder citizens.  Like my colleagues, I found the \"Prime Time Investigates\" programme extremely difficult to watch. In the documentary, we saw older people not being treated like humans. The documentary demonstrated consistent patterns of neglect and lack of care in nursing homes across the country. It is deeply concerning. We have been getting phone calls over the past few weeks about certain issues within private nursing homes all over the State. I was a healthcare worker prior to being elected. I know exactly what is happening on the ground.  HIQA has an issue here. It is coming in and doing inspections after this is not good enough. HIQA coming in is like the old analogy of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. We find ourselves in a ridiculous situation. We are revisiting this 30 years after previous investigations and TV programmes. No lessons have been learned and profit is allowed to be the driver.  The average age of the population is now higher than it has ever been before. The number of people aged over 65 in Donegal has increased by 19% since 2016. We have to start properly and publicly investigating care of our growing population. It is clear we can no longer rely on private companies to deliver care. The current service providers are only motivated by profit, which is evident in the constant cost-cutting measures that are used. We need serious investment into the creation of public nursing homes with community beds.  I support this motion's call to ensure the national development plan includes a funded programme to develop new, public, long-term residential care, through community nursing homes, to meet the needs of our ageing population. We need to engage in long-term thinking and strategic planning. People cannot be expected to rely on their families any more to take care of them as they get older, given the number of young people who have been locked out of home ownership and forced to emigrate. We need to ensure that we have enough residential homes to cater for our ageing population and that these homes are well-staffed, comfortable and safe.  I also highlight the fact that residential homes are not covered under the Government's defective concrete scheme. We know of a few residential homes in Donegal that are affected by defective concrete. This must be taken into account. Families with loved ones in a nursing home have more than enough on their plate and they should not have to worry whether the building a family member is residing in is safe or structurally sound. However, this is a worry being forced on many family members in Donegal, on top of the worry about whether their loved ones are being treated with the decency and respect they deserve. Some of these families might have been forced to put their loved one into residential care because their home was unsafe due to defective concrete. I know this for a fact. Mould is always an issue in such a home and if someone living in it has respiratory problems, there is no choice as they have to be got out of the house to prolong their life.  The defective concrete crisis has its tentacles in every aspect of daily life in Donegal. What the Government is not seeing on the ground is that for people impacted by this crisis, it is a constant presence in every aspect of our life, including in nursing homes and community centres. It goes right across the spectrum of every aspect of our lives. Cr\u00e8ches and schools are also affected.  The Government underestimates just how much this crisis is a part of everyday life in Donegal. For example, there is an estate in Mountain Top in Donegal where every house in it has defective concrete. There is a nursing home and an office block at the entrance into this lovely estate, which is no longer lovely as it is decaying, and both of them are defective. The families of the residents in the nursing home are stressed and worried, but there is no scheme in place for them.  I will return to the subject of nursing homes. I worked in a nursing home up to my election. The staff in nursing homes are extremely caring people. There were a few bad people. Former staff members called me to say they feel uneasy at work and that they are being watched. HIQA can show up at 6 o'clock in the morning. It is meant to do that. However, HIQA is responsible here too. If a member of staff is taking a resident, who is mobile, to bed, HIQA can watch every aspect of that in the hallway but as soon as the staff member takes the resident into his or her room and closes the door, HIQA is not allowed into the room. A HIQA inspector can only observe staff and residents in public doorways. He or she cannot go into a room and watch a member of staff put a resident to bed. That is wrong. We do not know if best practice is being taught. If a resident is being put in a hoist, if the door to the bedroom is closed then the HIQA inspector cannot see him or her because they are in the hallway.  I will give another example while I am at it. The residential place where I was working is a high-security locked unit. It is a circular building with a walkway around it and rooms off the walkway. People were in sections and staff looked after a section. HIQA decided that was not right. It said we should open up the whole place and let people wander around. Staffing levels were at a bare minimum. We saw the fall rate and transfers to hospital go through the roof. The decision was made by a HIQA inspector as to what should happen, so what worked for the previous 15 or 16 years was discontinued and we went on a different route. It is unacceptable that residents are left in dangerous situations because of staff shortages, which is an everyday occurrence.  One can see the faults when one has one's feet on the ground. HIQA must also take responsibility and look at the way things are done. It is fine to have 6 a.m. inspections, but let us put it where there is best practice. For example, when people can train online as a healthcare assistant at FETAC level 5. They can spend \u20ac1,800 on it, walk into a nursing home and get work experience and also get a job. Whereas, I trained for two years' part time to up my skills with Elspeth Vaughan in the ETB, one of the best training courses one could get. We did everything to a very high standard. When someone with this standard of qualification goes into a private nursing home, straight away he or she gets calls from the HSE with offers to join it and promises to give us this or that. I would not be moved. I worked for the minimum wage, but I would not be moved because I cared for the people. That is what is missing. The fact is that we no longer care for the people we look after. It is profit driven. We need to get back to a place where the elderly people are the most important ones. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I thank the Labour Party for bringing forward this very important motion today. I am sure there is not one person in the D\u00e1il who saw the documentary who was not disgusted by the way our elderly were being treated. If big businesses are treating our elderly in such a terrible way, we must ensure we do all we can so that this does not continue.  That said, we cannot tar everybody with the one brush because there are some great nursing homes. We must make sure the bad are weeded out but the good are secured and looked after. I meet Tadhg Daly from Nursing Homes Ireland fairly often and we discuss the lack of funding. I have gone to a lot of nursing homes. They tell me straight that there is a massive lack of funding.  We all know the great community hospitals that are out there that are funded to within an inch of their lives. If HIQA walks in the door and improvements have to be made, they are funded by the State. The situation with nursing homes is that if HIQA walks in the door and says improvements must be made, the funding must come out of their coffers. I am very seriously concerned because while nursing home staff and management are doing everything they can to make sure everything is right, it is impossible to do that if the budget is tightened beyond belief. That is the situation here and the Government have let things slip.  I also have very serious concerns about care of the elderly going forward as the elderly population is rising. I know a lot of the hospitals in my constituency, and I never heard of an extension being proposed for any one of them. When I ring to inquire about bringing in a patient I am told, for example, that 15 or 20 people are on the waiting list and the person does not have a hope of getting in there. They might pass away before they get the chance.  One stunning hospital we have is in Schull. I would be delighted if the Minister were to get a chance to come and see it because it is a perfect example of what a community hospital should be. In fairness, there are other similar places throughout the country. The hospital has 21 beds. As far as I know, there were 21 beds there 100 years ago. Something has got to change. Somebody must have the vision to say the hospital in Schull and in other places need an extension of 25 or 30 beds, so that people will have a home if they need it. That is a very big issue for me.  I also talk about Aperee Living nursing home, which had serious issues some two years ago. We lost the facility in Belgooley. At that time, I said in the D\u00e1il that the nursing home in Belgooley should be taken over by the State because there were enough people in need of a nursing home. One can imagine old people losing their nursing home and having the living daylights frightened out of them, yet nobody stepped in. The nursing home was let go. It was the same with Aperee Living in Bantry and the nursing homes in Conna in Fermoy and in the Mallow area. They all went into liquidation. People are living in fear that they are going to lose their home, which is basically what can happen. The State must have a mechanism to step in, as outlined in the motion, and to take over the running of a nursing home if it is badly run or someone has been found guilty of serious infringements. That is the road we must travel. It did not happen in Belgooley and the patients were herded out like cattle.  They were shoved everywhere and anywhere. There was no respect shown. They were told a nursing home would be found and that if they did not take it, they should be taken home. That is not good enough. We need to wake up and understand how to respect our elderly. If the State had stepped in and put the money into that nursing home that it needed, and that the owners did not seem to have or did not want to invest - I did not know what was going on there - it could have taken up to 80 people. It could have taken pressure off nursing homes in west Cork.  Dementia units are also badly needed. We need to invest and ensure there are more carers and that there is not a means test for carers. We need to invest in home help. However, the biggest problem I have with home help, which keeps people at home - we do not need people going into nursing homes every day of the week - is many of the older home helps are walking away. They were fantastic and mainly women. The problem is they have to carry around tablets and computers to do their job. That is not what they should be doing. They should be in the house looking after the patient. Unfortunately, it has gone to another level which they might not be capable of reaching but they certainly were the world\u2019s best at looking after the elderly person in the home. Unfortunately, I am hearing of private companies being brought in because staff cannot be found as they are walking away. They were willing to stay had they been allowed to work rather than going home to spend an hour tapping on a tablet or on a computer, sorting things out. Their work was on the ground; delivering for and looking after people. That is the area the Minister of State needs to return to as well as carers and the means tests. They are important areas.  The recent increase in the means test for carers is a positive step. It is imperative that the means test is completely abolished to better support families to care for their elderly parents at home. Additionally, there is a critical need to expand the availability of home help services. One of the most pressing issues is the insufficient provision of home help for individuals transitioning from hospital care. This shortage often results in elderly patients being placed in nursing homes. By significantly increasing home help services, we can reduce the necessity for sending our elderly population to nursing homes, thereby allowing them to remain in the comfort of their own homes.  Last week in the D\u00e1il, we in Independent Ireland brought forward a motion with 23 points on how to fix the housing crisis. While making my contribution on it, I showed those in the Chamber a picture of Jennifer Marley who is 88 years of age. She was becoming homeless. She had no home. Her next move, unfortunately, was to a nursing home. She did not need a nursing home as she lived independently. There is no social housing in west Cork. I have been on choice-based lettings, CBL, for the past ten weeks and I believe once in ten weeks a couple of houses came up in west Cork. That is an astonishing situation west Cork finds itself in. There are no council houses available. A local housing body - the Government needs to invest money in housing bodies - that had received money from the State and had built a number of houses, thankfully, stepped in and looked after that lovely lady, and deservedly so. The problem is I am in the same situation this week. I am holding up another picture of a 77-year-old man, Gus Dempsey, who asked me to do this. He is homeless as of today. His house burned down six months ago. A neighbour gave him a house to move into but he is now in a situation where he has no home tonight. He does not know if he will have to sleep on the street. His neighbour was brilliant and kind but told him his family was coming home and he had to leave by a certain date. The man is in a desperate situation. Will he end up in a nursing home? This is the crisis we have in this country. Our elderly people are being abused one way or another. We have completely taken our eye off the ball in respect of their future and what will happen in this country.  If these people become homeless, will they be rammed into a nursing home when they do not need to be in one? They need a home they can call their own. It is a simple thing. I thank all the housing bodies. I am involved in two of them and we have approximately 20 to 25 people housed in 16 houses in Schull and Goleen. They are absolutely thrilled. They have all the services they need at their door. The medical centre is right beside them. We opened 12 of these houses recently. This is a fantastic service and we need to spend more time looking at that.  The future is bleak for a person who is elderly. It is bleak right now but what will it be like in ten years\u2019 time? There is no planning here and I said that to the Minister of State. I have not heard of any planning permission from any community hospital or nursing home in the whole of County Cork for an extension of rooms. We need to look at this issue and not have someone like Gus Dempsey at 77 years of age worrying whether he is going to sleep in Ballinspittle on the side of the road, on the street or under a bus shelter. That is a situation we find ourselves in between last week and this week with two different people aged 88 and 77. We resolved the 88-year-old's situation and my office is frantically trying to resolve that of the 77-year-old. Any help the Minister of State can give would be greatly appreciated.  We need to look to the future, which is not happening. The fair deal scheme is an unfair deal for farmers in regard to nursing homes. The promises made here over a number of years are being broken. I have two or three pages on the areas of unfairness. If one is leasing land, one is murdered and caught in a system that is part of the assessment.  I know time is tight. I am very passionate about certain areas here. I do not want to tar everyone with the same brush. The community hospitals and nursing homes I know of are running fantastically and are doing great work. It is upsetting for many of them and for their staff to think the finger is pointing at them when it should not be. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  This is a timely and sensitive motion. The programme on RT\u00c9 shocked everybody. Many people knew of the many changes in nursing care and the methods of care in our nursing homes. I salute the many hundreds of small nursing homes and some quite big ones in Tipperary, in particular St. Martha\u2019s and Bramleigh Lodge in Cashel and the many others I could name. They do an excellent job but they are under fierce pressure. There is discrimination against them.  The HSE-owned nursing homes have bigger subventions than the small private nursing homes. We have commodified healthcare and nursing care. I have seen that with my own two eyes. We were waiting on a 60-bed HSE nursing unit in Cashel at St. Patrick\u2019s Hospital. Former Deputy, Martin Browne, and I were told at a meeting a year and a half ago that site was not suitable. I do not know why it took so long to come up with that. We are now looking for another site for a 60-bed unit. We should look at the pressure that would take off nursing homes and people who need nursing care. I salute the nurses, attendants and management of community and small family-run nursing homes and some of the bigger ones as well. I visit them quite often and the standard of care is very good. Where there is wrongdoing and abuse taking place not only the management but the persons perpetrating it should be prosecuted. It is elder abuse of the worst kind.  Tipperary used to have Tipperary District Hospital and St. Brigid's in Carrick-on-Suir until two years ago when it was unceremoniously closed. It was taken over during Covid mar dhea before it was closed down. It had 15 beds and three lovely hospice suites. It was a very functional and practical place and should be reopened. The people of south-east Tipperary, east Waterford and south Kilkenny all used it. It had excellent management and staff. As for St. Theresa\u2019s in Clogheen, I cannot say enough about it. It was a district hospital and has been expanded and upgraded. It has two fabulous hospice suites where many people go at the end of life and have dignity. Families are also looked after there. It is under the care of matron Anne Walsh, director and manager, and the excellent staff. I have many friends and relations, including my own mother, who were there. They got the best of care and treatment. That model works rather than the model of allowing big conglomerates to expand and expand at the expense of others.  A lot of blame rests with HIQA as well. I remember a lovely nursing home in Carrick-on-Suir when I came in here first in 2007. It was a flat building with no steps. The owner-manager did her best but HIQA was down on her like a tonne of bricks even though another nursing home was built in the same town and was never visited. I heard reports again this morning that HIQA is saying it does not have the power to deal with bigger companies and conglomerates. It must have the power to do so. It is the same care and people need to be looked after. What did it do to that woman? It kept criticising this, that and the other and began restricting the number of beds. It eventually closed six beds. When she needed to get a loan from the bank to upgrade the nursing home to what HIQA wanted, the books did not add up because of the closures. HIQA closed the nursing home by stealth. It forced her to close. Lo and behold one day two inspectors took a tour and had dinner to taste the food and said the food was quite bland.  I do not know what they expected. Was it the Gresham Hotel they were going to or some place? The food was excellent, but that nursing home is no longer in business. It was unceremoniously closed down by HIQA, which was an utter disgrace. I raised it in this House at the time. Now HIQA seems not to be able to touch these big sacred cows. We are told it does not have the power. If it has the power to do it with a small nursing home, why should it not have the same power for these? We are talking about human beings; individuals who are not able to be at home, where they would prefer to be, and who need care. We are all facing that.  I remember when my kids were small, buying a sticker for the rear window of my car that said \"Be nice to your children. They pick your nursing home\". That sticker was there for many people. Unfortunately, there is not much choice nowadays, but speaking for myself, I am heading to that period of life. It is sad we have commodified this to such an extent. As I said, we are talking about people, human beings. Our parents, grandparents, friends and neighbours deserve respect. HIQA is not fit for purpose. It should be disbanded, but above all it should be made to account for why it can close small nursing homes while allowing the conglomerates to do what they like. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  First, I thank the Labour Party for giving us the opportunity to talk about this important topic.  It is an emotive subject when families have to make the decision to put someone into a nursing home. I vividly remember when my father was not great and a decision had to be made. I am glad we were able to keep him in his own home with Kathleen Fitzgerald. I thank all the people, including Noreen Sullivan, Jackie Ahern and William Leary. I will leave people out and I am sad about that but I thank all the people who helped him in his final days. He died in Tralee hospital and I thank the staff there and the staff in Killarney district hospital for the great attention and care they gave him every hour and day he was there. They are wonderful people and we want to thank them. We will never forget them.  He said a nursing home was kind of a departure lounge and that when people go into one, there is not much hope of coming out again. That was one of the things he felt and said. For many people, when they are not improving, not getting better but getting worse, families have to make the decision. Many people keep their loved ones at home and they should get more help to do so. The Denmark model is that there are hardly any nursing homes in Denmark. We should strive to better our home care system and it would save us a lot of money.  At present, I am hurt by what we saw on RT\u00c9. There are a lot of great nursing homes, including family-run nursing homes. We have them in Kenmare, Killarney and other places. We are lucky enough in Kerry that we did not have them, but I worry about the big business companies that own a number of nursing homes. They have a different model. They have to make the thing pay. They are not like Mother Teresa. I worry about the system where public nursing homes are getting more funding than private nursing homes. It costs the same to operate the bed or room. They should get the same funding. There should be no excuse at any time to mistreat or treat badly elderly people. They are the people who got us to where we are today, people who strived day in and day out to rear families, keep employees going, provide homes for their families and so forth. Surely they deserve the Government's best to ensure they are properly looked after by carers and home helps.  There is another dimension that is valuable and is not appreciated enough. It is where people come to sleep with elderly people, not in the beds with them, but in the house to be there for the whole long night and stay until the morning. They should be rewarded better than they are. Families have to pay for that themselves. The State should intervene. We are talking about people who are trying to stay in their homes for as long as possible.  We should strive to develop a system like the model in Denmark, where people are looked after in their homes. We see too often when people are awarded home help - on leaving the hospital, they are told they qualify for home help - that then there is no home help available. The staff are not to be found. That is an awful time for families. The help should be there the minute they land at home or the following days. They should not have to wait. What happens in a lot of cases is that these people have to return to hospital. That is another reason our beds are full in our hospitals. That happens because the home helps are not in place and it is terrible.  One of the reasons I decided to support the Government is that it said it would get rid of the means test. I am looking forward to that and to helping the carers of Ireland, because they are the massive people who do Trojan work----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell)  Go raibh maith agat. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  -----to keep people----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell)  Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta. Your time is up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  -----looked after. All right. I am sorry. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)  I thank Deputy Healy-Rae for his comments on abolishing the means test for carers. We are systematically trying to get to the point where it has been abolished. I recognise the changes that have been made because what we want to see, as the Deputy said, is people staying in their own homes for as long as possible for their dignity, comfort and connection with their families and because that is the model we want to have. There is a substantial body of work on that, which the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell is leading. I thank him for his work on that.  This is an exceptionally important time to discuss this issue again in the House, recognising our collective focus on making sure that people can stay at home for as long as possible, that those who are in nursing homes are safe and have dignity, and that we see a significant change to what we saw in recent weeks. I thank the Labour Party for bringing forward this motion to give us the opportunity to discuss it. To clarify, in opposing the motion, we do not claim there are no challenges in the sector or anything of the kind, but rather we are taking the opportunity to set out the pathway for which we should be held to account in the next number of years.  It is fair to recognise that nursing homes in the public, private and voluntary sectors play a critical role and will retain a critical place in the provision of long-term care and other services. They will remain a vital part of the continuum of care into the future and we have to make sure all the other services are in place so that it is an appropriate part and not an over-indexed part of the continuum of care for older people.  I also need to acknowledge the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme that was broadcast on 4 June. I echo the words of the Minister of State with responsibility for older people, Deputy O'Donnell, by stating in the strongest terms possible that every nursing home resident deserves and should expect the highest standards of care and dignity at all times. Poor care, mistreatment, neglect or any other form of abuse of any person living in a long-term residential care centre is completely unacceptable and cannot be tolerated, nor can it be tolerated in any other setting.  I do not wish to repeat what he said, but I acknowledge that in his opening speech the Minister of State outlined a range of actions the Government is taking, which we hope will contribute significantly to improving the nursing home sector and care of older people. I thank him for his always forensic approach to the data he has and for his interrogation of what he believes needs to be done. I have witnessed and, I hope, supported him in that forensic analysis with HIQA and others about the work done to date and what is yet to be done. A fit-for-purpose regulatory regime for the sector is of paramount importance. As the national independent regulator for nursing homes, HIQA and the office of the chief inspector need to use all the powers available to them and to communicate with us about how we can enhance and develop those powers. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, outlined that he and I have met HIQA a number of times in recent weeks to try to further those ends. HIQA has acknowledged the importance of examining its processes and methodology and will undertake a review of the effectiveness of the chief inspector's inspection and monitoring processes.  One of the things the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and I identified in particular is the need for more real-time reporting of how that may be done. The update must also be provided in March, for example, if a report is published in March for an inspection concluded in October. There should be a follow-up measure to check what may be outstanding at that point.  I would also expect the same in respect of hospital inspections, a number of which I reviewed this week. Where there are points that need to be followed up, I would prefer to have a real-time assessment of those. We have very strong confidence in HIQA, notwithstanding what has happened over the last number of weeks, because of its institutional experience and the role it has played to date. It is always going to be the case in any developed liberal democracy that we have to assess strongly the institutions we have, even those that have worked very well, and continue to work to improve them, particularly as the circumstances around them change. That is especially the case in respect of the ownership of nursing homes and how that has evolved over the last period.  The Government is fully committed to introducing an adult safeguarding policy for the health and social care sector, which will provide a framework for strengthening safeguards across all private, public and voluntary services. The policy is at an advanced stage and our intention is to bring it to the Government as a matter of priority. My hope is that would be before the August break. To update the House, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and I met the Law Reform Commission in respect of that yesterday and we looked at some of the detail, thinking and analysis that went into its report as it considered various models of how to get to the point of achieving a policy that is going to be effective, independent and capable of being introduced quickly. We had a good opportunity to tease through some of those issues. I respect the work of the Law Reform Commission, the very considerable effort it has put into developing its policy and the draft Bills it has produced. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and I had a good opportunity yesterday and we will reflect on that as I bring the policy direction to the Government over the next number of weeks.  The policy will set out, at a high level, proposed new legislative provisions for the sector. It will also set out a wide-ranging programme of non-legislative measures across our sector to achieve a culture of safeguarding that is fostered and embedded at all levels. More broadly, it is important to reiterate that investing in services for older people is a Government priority and has been. There has been an increase of approximately \u20ac1 billion in funding for services for older people since 2020. This year alone has seen an increase of approximately \u20ac350 million on the amount secured under budget 2024, bringing the total figure to almost \u20ac3 billion in budget 2025. A figure means nothing without a context but, of course, that is \u20ac3 billion out of an overall budget of \u20ac25 billion. There is significant investment but that does not mean we do not need to continue to do better, particularly at a time when there is a growing and ageing population. Deputies are already familiar with the measures in the nursing home support scheme known as fair deal. That fair deal scheme will receive Government funding of in excess of \u20ac1.2 billion this year, and the programme for Government commits to strengthening the nursing home sector by increasing funding for fair deal. It is important that we continue to work on that.  The programme for Government also commits to building more public nursing home beds and that is an absolute priority for this Government. The 2025 programme for Government is, I hope, dedicated, among other things, to the vision of creating a caring society, a compassionate State and one that is funded to be able to do those different things. We are trying to advance a range of actions that will genuinely advance the social care model, and support older people to live a full and independent life in their own homes and communities with appropriate wraparound supports.  Another element of that, which is so important, is our increasing use of virtual technology in the healthcare sector more broadly to enable people to get appropriate care as close to home as possible, always with a view to keeping people in their own homes and spaces for as long as possible, recognising all of the different challenges that people have. While our commitments in respect of Meals on Wheels, nursing homes and a range of different issues are challenging, I believe they are achievable but I have to reiterate to the House the scale of the demographic challenge that is ahead. We are going to have to think about and work together on it in every possible way.  Our population is growing rapidly and it is ageing. That is an extremely good thing. It is fantastic that people are living longer lives in Ireland and that our life expectancy is increasing but it will bring a different challenge for all of us here to be able to support and represent people in an appropriate way. We will have to recognise that people are going to be diagnosed with more illnesses as they age. Again, this is a good thing, as opposed to the alternative. Nevertheless, the intersection of those illnesses with where they live and how they are supported is something we are going to have to concentrate our minds on, while making sure we are using every lever in both the healthcare and social care sectors to support people at home. That is a good thing for people's dignity and for the economics of supporting people, which must also be there. Very happily, these things coincide. I look forward, over the period of this D\u00e1il, to working with all Deputies to try to achieve those different goals.  In conclusion, let me go back to the essence and purpose of this debate, which is prompted by the desperate and dreadful scenes we witnessed in the recent RT\u00c9 programme, which highlighted appalling deficiencies in care and with respect to people's dignity in some long-term residential care settings in Ireland. Of course, primary responsibility absolutely lies with the individuals who committed those actions, and the organisations that worked in a way that enabled or facilitated them, or did not intervene or address them. It is also the case that we have to improve HIQA's processes and standards but we must never lose sight of the fact that everybody has a choice about how they turn up to work and how they treat people on a day-to-day basis. Those choices were very wrong in every instance we saw on that RT\u00c9 show. It is simply unacceptable and I think we are absolutely unanimous in our perspective on that.  The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and I have a range of work to do, on which we will continually update Deputies, and they will hold us to account on that. I thank Deputies for the opportunity to discuss this today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  Two weeks before the \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" programme, a man in his 80s came to my clinic. He makes a bare minimum of 14 trips a week to the nursing home in which his wife is living. He visits in the morning to make sure his wife's day can begin with care, dignity and love. It is not the nursing home's job to provide love but it is its job to provide care and dignity. He goes again at night to make sure her day ends with care and dignity. He visits a number of additional times during the week when his children cannot make the trip. He stopped short of saying there was abuse but what there is in that nursing home is neglect. There is neglect because there are not enough staff, and the staff are not there to provide the work that is needed to care for his wife. He is in his 80s; his wife is older, she is unwell and she is being let down by this system.  This system for older people and their care is almost completely broken. There are elements performing better than others. One element that is performing better and has done for the last number of years, though not perfectly, is our HSE-run and publicly owned and funded care homes. We need to be reinvesting in a public model of care. We need to be taking over private homes such as the 27 Emeis nursing homes that are performing so poorly.  What these private nursing home conglomerates will welcome is our money. They will welcome the Minister's money and the State's money but what they will not welcome is trade unions. They are not welcome. They will not be allowed into their facilities to organise their staff to ensure there are safe staffing levels, proper pay and proper terms and conditions. I thought Deputy Charles Ward's contribution as a former worker in this sector was really interesting. He highlighted the tensions between private and public staffing and how the HSE, when it finds out that a staff member is performing well and has a good reputation in a private nursing home, will go in and hire them. More often than not, that worker, for understandable reasons such as pay, pension and standards of care, will move to the HSE. Deputy Ward mentioned his own case, where he would not be moved because he cared for and was committed to his residents.  This model is broken. I reject the fact that the Minister felt she needed to put a countermotion down in order to set out a charter by which she would measure her own progress. As Minister, she has many opportunities to do this. She should be supporting our motion and what Deputies Sherlock and Wall, on behalf of the Labour Party, have put forward here today. We will continue on this. It may not be on the front pages of the newspapers every day anymore but it will be front and centre of what the Labour Party will be pursuing in the health and care agenda for the lifetime of this D\u00e1il and beyond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  My grandad was actually in one of these affected nursing homes in 2024.  The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, would know this nursing home very well. It backs onto our constituency. My grandad was there for over a week when he was discharged from hospital. He said the staff were lovely, and they were, but there were not enough of them evidently. He was often left to go to the toilet on his own. My mum, who is his primary carer, said that when she collected him from the nursing home, the main thing that she took away from it was that he was not washed at all while he was there. He had been there for over a week.  The creeping privatisation of elder care, the warehousing of people and the complete disregard for their basic human rights is one of the worst things that we have done in this country. We have the most private nursing home beds in Europe. In 1990, public nursing homes provided nearly 50% of all beds. By 2023, that had plummeted to 16%.  My sister is a nurse. While in college, she worked in many private nursing homes as a healthcare assistant. I remember vividly - it has never left me - her saying to me once that, during the pandemic, she would not have been shocked if nearly every single patient in a private for-profit nursing home in which she worked had died of Covid-19, such was the shortage of staff and the lack of care. We know the difference a good, well-run public nursing home makes to a community. In our own city, we have the recently redeveloped and enlarged 75-bed St. Camillus's nursing home. This was announced in 2015 by the then Government, representing \u20ac450 million of a capital injection into publicly owned nursing homes. Since 2009, we have spent \u20ac15 billion subsidising private for-profit nursing homes through the fair deal scheme. Much of that money would have been better spent on investing in building capacity in the public system. Public nursing homes have higher staffing levels and a lower turnover of staff and are generally better run.  I feel that HIQA is failing people here. It is nothing really but a report-writing, box-ticking entity. It is time now for the State to step in and to step up where these private nursing home providers are failing. We need to pass adult safeguarding legislation as a matter of urgency. We have the template. The Law Reform Commission has drafted two Bills. We need to do this before the summer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Bacik will appreciate that it is time for Leaders' Questions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  I thank all those who spoke in support of our Labour motion on nursing homes and care. I thank in particular my colleagues Deputies Marie Sherlock and Mark Wall for leading on this motion. We in the Labour Party have put this forward with one key purpose, namely, to ensure dignity for those of our citizens who are ageing. Everyone in Ireland should be supported to age with dignity. We have set out a series of constructive steps to achieve that dignity that we speak about. In particular, we speak about three things: we want to see a breaking of the hold of big business on the nursing home sector; we want to empower HIQA and ensure minimum standards of care are required in the sector; and we want to see the rapid passage of long-promised adult safeguarding legislation.  Of course, home care should be the gold standard. Everyone wants to be supported in his or her home. However, nursing homes will always be needed when a higher level of care is required. Sadly, we know from Aoife Hegarty and her excellent team in RT\u00c9 that abuse and neglect across nursing homes is all too often the case for our older citizens. This is not limited to Emeis nursing homes, albeit we saw some egregious examples of abuse and neglect. In our motion, we call for these nursing homes to be taken over by the State. We stand by that.  According to those who work in private nursing homes, we see denials of dignity every day. One care worker spoke to me about the cheapest of facilities and materials, the limits on numbers of staff and no human touch in the care provided. What is the root cause of this? It is due to the for-profit motive that unfortunately lies at the base of our nursing home sector.  Our motion seeks to tackle what is a systemic ageism that has allowed this creeping privatisation, this commodification of care. That has resulted in the diminution of standards and in the sort of neglect that we have seen all too often. We need to ensure that the constructive steps we have outlined are now taken by the Government with urgency so that we can see a return to the sort of dignity that our older citizens expect and need. We must ensure older persons have a voice in the process. That is why we have placed an emphasis on the need for the Government to take the steps that Safeguarding Ireland and the Law Reform Commission have set out so clearly. I welcome the Minister's indication that the Government will bring forward the safeguarding legislation before the August break. I very much hope she will. We will certainly welcome and support that if it is done. This is about ensuring a reset of our care model, ensuring that we move from commodification to compassion and from the disrespect we are currently seeing across the system to a model where the dignity of our older citizens is paramount and nobody has to suffer the awful indignities that we saw far too many people suffering in those nursing homes that were under the spotlight in the RT\u00c9 programme.  We will work with the Minister on this. We are very disappointed at the amendment. We believe the Minister could have supported our motion, which is a constructive one. We think the amendment does nothing to reassure older people and their families that this Government is going to tackle the scandal in nursing homes with the urgency it requires. The amendment is derisory and we ask the Minister to withdraw it and enable us to unite across this House in the support of our older persons and dignity in older age. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time this evening. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Nursing Homes: Motion [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":76,"speakerCount":11},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I apologise to the leaders for us running late. On that basis, a precedent is not being set by allowing the Labour Party to conclude its motion. However, we will try to be on time for the future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Before I begin, I want to say how very sorry I am to hear of the death of Brother Kevin Crowley. I offer condolences to everybody who loved him. Brother Kevin's work at the Capuchin Day Centre is the stuff of legend. He really was a champion for the poor and for everyone who fell on hard times, without judgment and without exception. He lived for others and he absolutely changed lives. We will all feel his loss very greatly. Ireland has lost a great son. Indeed, his beloved Cork has lost a true legend. Ar dheis D\u00e9 go raibh a anam d\u00edlis.  Yesterday, I was contacted by a mother at her wits' end. She has two daughters in college. She told me that she and her husband were just about able to cover the costs of that. She talked about the pressure they were under to pay for the accommodation. She likened it to a second mortgage, so this mother could not believe her ears when the Minister, Deputy Lawless, announced that the Government would hike up student fees by \u20ac1,000. She asked where in the name of God did the Government think she and her husband would find an extra \u20ac2,000. Thousands of students and their parents are in the same position with the worry, stress and uncertainty of having to come up with that money.  Yesterday, my colleague An Teachta Pearse Doherty twice asked the Minister a very simple question about what students and their families would be asked to pay. Will it be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? Twice, the Minister refused to answer. When asked by reporters yesterday whether a fee hike was coming, Miche\u00e1l Martin was dismissive. He talked about budgeting processes instead of being upfront about the bills students and their parents would face in a few weeks. He was clear on one thing, namely, that there would be no cost-of-living package. Obviously, the fees are going up.  The T\u00e1naiste, Simon Harris, could not have been more cavalier. He said that if he was the parent of a child going to college today, he would do what happened last year, the year before and the year before that. He would pay in instalments and see where the budget brought us to. How out of touch can you get? We are not talking about a few quid here. We are talking about \u20ac1,000 per student. That is a lot of money for families. Parents cannot take a wait-and-see approach. They and students need to know now what they will be paying. The Government is making the choice to hike student fees at a time when working people and families are under pressure with soaring prices, hit left, right and centre with increases in the cost of food, energy bills, childcare, petrol, diesel and, as the Government well knows, rent. Prices are through the roof, yet now the Government wants to add a \u20ac1,000 hike in college fees into the mix.  That is the flippant and casual attitude of a Government that has no problem reinstating big pay packages for top-brass executives at bailed-out banks or doling out cushy pay increases for its record number of Ministers of State, but pleads the poor mouth when it comes to students and their families. It is a tale as old as time when it comes to Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael.  Caithfidh an Rialtas a bheith ionraic le mic l\u00e9inn agus lena dteaghlaigh. Cad a bheidh mar th\u00e1ille col\u00e1iste acu i m\u00ed Mhe\u00e1n F\u00f3mhair? An mbeidh costas \u20ac2,000 n\u00f3 \u20ac3,000 air?  The Minister needs to be upfront with students and their families. Dancing on the head of a pin, dodging and refusing to give a straight answer is, frankly, not acceptable. I will again ask the straightforward question and I would like an answer, please. When students are paying their fees for the 2025-26 academic year, will the cost be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Deputy Jack Chambers)  I thank the Deputy for her question. I first want to echo what she said about Brother Crowley. Ireland has lost a wonderful person, someone who brought incredible care, humility and service to support the most vulnerable in our country. We thank him for his tireless work. May he rest in peace. I offer condolences to all of his family.  In response to the Deputy's question, I acknowledge there is still pressure in the daily lives of many families and costs are still high. What we said at the time of the formation of this Government was that, as part of the process around budget 2026, changes would be made in a sustained and permanent way. That covers all policy areas across government. In the context of further and higher education, the Minister, Deputy James Lawless, has engaged, and will continue to engage, with students and the stakeholders in that sector. That will form the basis of the options paper on the cost of education, which will inform his work and the negotiation as part of budget 2026. That specific detail will inform him about what is possible and how he wants to prioritise the different measures that can be taken on a permanent and sustained basis.  The Deputy referenced the measures that were taken last year or the previous year. Those measures were taken on a one-off temporary basis as part of a cost-of-living package. We are approaching budget 2026 by trying to take measures that can be made on a permanent basis. Work around that is happening across the Government, with different Ministers setting out their priorities in the context of the budget negotiation process. I will be engaging with the Minister, Deputy Lawless, in that context following the summer economic statement and the publication of the national development plan.  One element of the cost for students is the student contribution fee, but other elements can help the affordability for students. Those include the grants from Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI, income thresholds and reckonable income when it comes to the wider grant system we have across the further and higher education sector. The work the Minister is doing now in developing the options paper on the cost of education and considering what are the best measures he can take in the context of budget 2026 to support students and households will form the basis of his discussions on the budget.  We have said that the work over the coming weeks will inform the overall allocation, which will be made available in the context of current expenditure. However, we have had a series of interventions over recent years. The average rate of expenditure increase has been 9% in recent years. We have uncertainty around us and need to be careful about the broader economic and budgetary context. That is why we are undertaking careful work within the Government to set out what is possible in terms of the interplay between current and capital expenditure and the changes we will make from a tax perspective.  As a Government, we are saying that the measures we will take for 2026 and onwards will be taken in a budgetary context. We are not taking ad hoc decisions in early July when there is a process to be undertaken. That goes for all my Government colleagues, across the board.  We are cognisant of the pressures that families face, including in respect of third level fees but also in respect of the cost of education at primary and secondary levels, the continuing cost of childcare and the cost of a whole range of services. We want to strengthen public services and make them more affordable. That is the medium-term expenditure framework that we will set out in the coming weeks. That will form the basis of the broader negotiation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  The Minister said a lot there but did not answer the question. He is the Minister for public expenditure and this is a straightforward question. Will the cost be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? On the basis of what he is saying and according to the logic of his presentation, I assume the cost will be \u20ac3,000. The Minister, Deputy Lawless, has announced an increase in student fees to \u20ac3,000. The Minister, Deputy Chambers, needs to stand up and confirm that. People are waiting for confirmation. Will it be \u20ac3,000? People have to budget for that. They cannot just produce it out of thin air.  The kind of logic presented by the Minister strikes me as particularly perverse. In order to bring down the cost of education, the Government is going to hike the cost of student fees. That makes no sense. What does the Government have against students? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  The Government is going to hike up the cost of their rent----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy McDonald. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  -----and is now going to hike up their fees,----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Please, Deputy, time is up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  -----but the Minister does not even have the decency to be clear about it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Minister to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  I ask the Minister to confirm----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy, please, you are way over time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  -----if students will pay \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  What I have said very clearly is that the outlook will be informed by what we agree as part of budget 2026. This is the hypocrisy of Sinn F\u00e9in when it comes to third level fees. In the North, the then Minister, Caoimhe Archibald, was not at the time ruling out hikes in student fees. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  There are no increases in the North. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  She then said that she had to work within the context of the financial position. It is the same for this Government when it comes to budget 2026. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Will it be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  When it comes to all policy----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Jesus, surely the Minister can answer a question as basic as that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy, please. There is hardly any need. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Mother of God. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  All decisions we will make for next year will be made in the budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  The Minister does not know the answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  So, in September. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputies, allow the response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  They will be done and concluded in the budget process. That is the same as has happened in previous years. That is the context. That will inform the outlook for 2026. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  That is most unhelpful to families and students. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  That is the same for all policy measures. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  That is very unhelpful. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  It is decided in the budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  Students are coming back in September, not next year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  They get the message. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  I join others in expressing condolences on the death of Brother Kevin Crowley of the Capuchin Day Centre. I had the pleasure of meeting Brother Kevin, witnessing the immense work that he and his colleagues were doing and experiencing his great sense of humour. He will be sadly missed.  When the idea of a housing tsar was announced some months ago, the question on everyone's lips was the same: what can a tsar possible do for housing that the Minister cannot achieve? The bizarre tsar proposal appears to have been quietly shelved. It has joined a pile of other U-turns on the cutting room floor of Government Buildings and the Custom House. It has become increasingly clear that the Minister cannot take the necessary action alone and needs help. Nearly six months since taking office and in the midst of a severe housing crisis, he has nothing to show for himself other than two Bills. One is to undo the hames he made of those deeply misguided plans to end the rent pressure laws. The other, to be taken next week, is a Bill to amend the huge new planning Act that itself is mostly not yet in force. It is worse than a mere failure to ensure the necessary radical reset. The Government is allowing existing safeguards to fail. It may now have extended rent pressure zones, but it has hollowed them out so that the protections are limited. Rents and evictions will go up.  Speaking of evictions, the Government is starving the tenant in situ scheme so that it has become ineffective. That scheme was the key measure designed to protect renters and keep families out of homelessness. Last Friday, the homelessness figures told of an appalling new record. Some 15,747 people were in emergency accommodation, including 4,844 children, each one a personal tragedy for that child and family. One would think that in the face of this, the Government would ramp up the tenant in situ scheme, but instead it is depriving it of adequate funding and the scheme is failing. We hear it is being curtailed or paused in Dublin, Cork city, Kildare and elsewhere. The Minister has said it will be very difficult to avoid crossing the shameful threshold of 5,000 children in homelessness.  We would think he is a commentator and not the line Minister overseeing an apparent winding down of the tenant in situ scheme and harebrained changes to rent pressure zone laws. All of this has consequences. In 2024, the tenant in situ scheme accounted for two in five homeless preventions in Cork city alone. This meant 100 children were kept out of homelessness. What will happen to families like those now? Increasingly, our TDs and councillors are experiencing hopelessness and despair when they are seeking to advise families facing evictions because there is nothing we can offer. When are we going to see a radical reset from the Government? When are we going to see emergency measures to keep the tenant in situ scheme working and ensure families are kept out of homelessness? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputies  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I absolutely reject what Deputy Bacik set out there concerning the Minister, Deputy Browne. If we look at the series of actions and reforms he has undertaken in recent weeks, I think a significant difference will be made in driving housing supply, private and public, in our economy. He has reformed and streamlined the approval process for new-build social housing projects this week, making a real difference in respect of streamlining the process to try to drive the approvals for social housing across our economy. He has brought through significant reforms and an expansion of the remit of the Land Development Agency, which is to drive the supply of social and affordable housing right across Ireland. He has established An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, three-year planning permission extensions are being made in certain cases and he has revised the national planning framework to ensure we have more zoned land to try to increase the supply of homes across our economy. The heads of the Bill on reforming short-term lettings has been agreed. This will help to release thousands of units for long-term use. He has also extended the first homes scheme to 2027, agreed the new housing activation office to try to co-ordinate the supply of homes across local authorities and secured \u20ac750 million in additional funding for more social, affordable and cost-rental homes, alongside a significant programme of acquisitions. Therefore, I absolutely reject what the Deputy said relating to the series of measures that the Minister, Deputy Browne, has taken and that will cumulatively make a difference in driving the supply of housing across our economy.  In terms of the issue of homelessness, all of us in government are disappointed by the increase in the figures we have seen, but we know that the real solution to trying to reduce homelessness is to increase the supply of social and affordable homes. It is in this context that there has been a concentrated effort on preventions and exits. This has been reflected in the figures from quarter 1 of 2025. Nationwide, 642 households, including 850 adults and 369 families, were prevented from entering emergency accommodation by way of a tenancy being created, for example, in quarter 1.  Turning to the question regarding the tenant in situ scheme, one of the first measures we took as a Government was to provide \u20ac325 million in 2025 for local authorities to buy second-hand properties, with a particular focus on tenant in situ acquisitions. This is an important part of the overall allocation for 2025. Separately, I am working with the Minister, Deputy Browne, on the national development plan. Central to that will be a focus on housing supply in our economy. It will not only be concerned with providing direct subsidies for housing, but also with how we can invest in our water and wastewater infrastructure, in our grid and in our transport infrastructure to drive the overall supply of homes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Minister. He can come back in. I call Deputy Bacik. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  If we look at the series of reforms the Minister has taken, it will make a difference. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  The Government seems to be content to express disappointment and say that the measures it is taking will have an effect. The reality for people across the country facing eviction is that there is no hope and no lifeline. The Minister said that increasing supply was the key priority. Of course it should be; that is right. Instead of seeing a ramping up of construction activity, though, we have seen delays and pauses in the building of social homes. In the last week alone, we have seen further delays announced. We have seen the filleting of the tenant in situ scheme. Councils, including Cork City Council, are telling us that they are curtailing the scheme, which was supposed to offer a lifeline for families facing homelessness to keep them out of homelessness. Far from energy, what we are seeing from the Minister, Deputy Browne, and the wider Government is inertia,----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  Lethargy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  -----a failure to act, a lethargy that leaves people in despair. People are telling us they have no hope of any prospect of owning----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Deputy. I call the Minister to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  -----or even of being able to rent their own homes because there is so little out there. What is the Government offering now to people facing eviction? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Deputy, but she is over time. I call the Minister to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I have referenced a series of actions being taken,----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  No----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Raising rents. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  -----including the strengthening of the Land Development Agency, continuing to support the increased supply of social and affordable homes----- "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  -----and the measures the Minister, Deputy Browne, has taken to cut through some of the bureaucracy that exists around the four-stage approval process and reform that. He has taken a series of measures that will increase the supply of social and affordable homes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  When? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  Central to the new national development plan will be an increased allocation that is all focused on housing. Our central and number one focus as a Government is driving the supply of thousands of new homes right across our country, but this requires reforming how systems operate. The Deputy is just asking for additional allocations, but we need to change some of the systems that are currently----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  We talked about them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  Well, credit has not been given to the Minister, Deputy Browne, for some of the measures he has taken in recent weeks that will make a difference in the context of social and affordable homes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  They will make matters worse. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Please, Deputies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  On the tenant in situ scheme, we have provided an additional \u20ac325 million in 2025 for local authorities to buy second-hand homes. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Time is up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  This will make a difference to families facing homelessness. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I extend our sympathies to all the family and colleagues of Brother Kevin Crowley. He is someone who gave his life to serve others.  The Minister did not tell people during the general election campaign that a vote for Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael would be a vote to increase college fees. The Minister has been asked twice about this issue. I will ask him a third time. What fees will students have to pay in September? Will it be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? It is a simple, straightforward question that the Minister has been asked twice. I have asked him a third time and I ask him to answer the question and to give a straight answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  There is now complete disarray and open revolt in the Government over student fees. Last night, the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, announced he was not happy about this mess. He said he signed up to a programme for Government that clearly promised to reduce fees. He described the threat to increase them by \u20ac1,000 as a scud missile nobody was expecting. Can the Minister stop the pretence that what is going on is part of the normal budgetary process? Nobody is buying that spin, not even the Ministers of State in government. The Government promised to continue reducing student fees, but it is now threatening to break that promise and increase them by a whopping 50%. This is what is happening here. I ask the Minister to answer the question on this issue and to clarify this is not what is happening.  The Minister does not have to lecture us and the public on budgetary planning. There was enough of that yesterday. What we are talking about here is trust in politics and promises broken within months of them being made. The Minister has repeatedly cited economic threats as a reason to ditch commitments to students and their families, but the programme for Government was written only a few months ago at the end of January. We are not talking about the dim and distant past. Is the Minister really telling us that commitments made a mere five months ago are now to be on the chopping block?  It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the Government just does not get it. It does not get the immense pressure on students and families from soaring costs. It does not get the level of rising panic at the thought of having to find an extra \u20ac1,000, or even more for families with multiple students in college. The Minister spoke at length about the Government's budget process, but what about family budgets? Does he understand household budgets and that they relied on the Government's commitment to reduce student fees? Families made plans on that basis, but the Government is now ripping up that pledge and those household plans. This is at a time when every penny has to be counted to make ends meet. This is causing great levels of stress and anxiety. Where are families and students meant to find that extra \u20ac1,000? I am really struggling to understand what the Government is doing and why this fiasco is continuing to run and has not been sorted out. Is it because the Taoiseach is away and nobody else is capable of making decisions on this issue? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  We have heard enough bluster on this issue. The Government made a commitment in writing, in black and white, to reduce student fees. Will the Government uphold that commitment? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The time is up. I call the Minister to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  Will the Minister answer the question concerning what fees will be in September? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  The Deputy cannot just dismiss budgetary planning as if it is not a proper part of how the Government operates and how politics should operate as part of----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Is breaking promises how the budgetary process operates? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  The Deputy just dismissing this and saying we should have ad hoc decisions on measures taken every week is not the appropriate way to run the budgetary process. What I said very clearly yesterday and again today was that we acknowledged the pressure many families and students faced. That is absolutely understood by everyone in the Government.  What we have said we will do around the budgetary process in the coming period is examine the cost-of-education paper, on which the Minister is working. This will inform the ongoing negotiation as part of budget 2026. In that budget, we will take decisions on how we can support continued affordability of public services. A key part of that is further and higher education. We are saying that we will do that within the confines of what we set out on budget day. This is the way annualised budgeting has worked for many years and the Deputy should not dismiss that.  What we have said very clearly is that we will move away from one-off temporary measures. What that meant last year was the measures taken relating to third level fees were temporary. We are approaching it this year in the context of seeing how we can provide continued and permanent changes for next year. The Minister, Deputy Lawless, is looking at that in the context of SUSI grants, reckonable income and the student contribution fee. That is what we are saying to people. It is around budget 2026 that we will set out what measures will be taken for next year. That is how we are engaging in this. It is unfair to just dismiss that by referencing politics and whatever else the Deputy said. That is unfair on the budgetary process. It is important, across every measure in Government, that we set out the overall allocation that will inform tax and expenditure policy for next year. We will engage in good faith with all our ministerial colleagues around their priorities. Obviously, affordability in education is one of them, which is understood fully by everybody in Government. It is through the budgetary decisions we take that we will set out what the fee threshold will be next year. That was the same in previous years when we had a cost-of-living package and a permanent package. What we are saying this year is that we want the measures we take to be taken on a permanent and sustained basis. It is on that basis that we are engaging in budgetary negotiations. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  What will fees be in September? Will they be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? This is the fourth time the Minister has been asked that question so could he give a direct answer to that question? What will students and their families be hit with in September? Can the Minister answer that question? In terms of dismissing things, it seems as if this Government is dismissing what it promised students and their families it would do in the programme for Government, namely, to reduce student fees. It seems the Minister is dismissing the concerns of families in terms of their household budgeting. Anyone reading the programme for Government in black and white and seeing the commitment to reduce fees would reasonably have thought that fees would be going down and not up. The Minister is dismissing that and the concerns of households and families. They need certainty and clarity. The Minister has been asked four times today to provide certainty and clarity on this and he has failed to do so. I am giving him a final opportunity to clarify whether fees will be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000 this September. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  The programme for Government is centrally important and informs all Ministers in how they negotiate in any budget. What is referenced in the programme for Government relating to students and third level will inform the Minister's budgetary negotiation. What happened in previous years when temporary one-off measures were taken was that they were taken in the aftermath of the start of an academic year. Whatever decisions are made in the context of the budget around reducing the cost of education will be deducted through an academic year if a decision is made on that. This is what has happened in previous years when it came to temporary one-off or cost-of-living packages. What we are saying is that the budget will inform what measures are taken relating to student contribution fees, SUSI grants and reckonable income. Affordability for students is a key priority for the Minister as part of the budget discussions that will take place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  T\u00e1 an deis \u00e1 tap\u00fa agam anois c\u00f3ras iarnr\u00f3d \u00e9adrom do chathair na Gaillimhe a ard\u00fa. T\u00e1 an cheist seo thar a bheith t\u00e1bhachtach. Is \u00ed an cheist i nd\u00e1ir\u00edre n\u00e1 an bhfuil an d\u00e1nacht agus an chr\u00f3gacht san Aire ceannaireacht a thaispe\u00e1int agus glacadh leis an gcoincheap seo chun c\u00f3ras iarnr\u00f3d \u00e9adrom a shol\u00e1thar do chathair na Gaillimhe. I am seizing the opportunity today to raise this matter with the Minister as Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, although I would have dearly loved to have raised the issue of Gaza as well.  The decision to roll out a light rail system in Galway requires courage, vision and leadership. Does the Minister have the courage to embrace this project and roll out a light rail system for Galway as part of the solution to the chronic traffic congestion in the city? The provision of a light rail system perfectly aligns with the national policy objectives in the revised national planning framework. I refer to objectives 10 and 97 on the requirement for a transport-orientated development approach served by high-capacity public transport in the metropolitan areas of the five cities destined to grow, with Galway being one of them. Moreover, section 2.1 of the revised national planning framework clearly sets out that the four cities, including Galway, will require the potential of all four cities to be realised at an unprecedented rate to create viable alternatives to Dublin. We have any number of policies with which the provision of light rail complies but I will look at climate action and climate change where light rail will actively help to reduce our emissions.  Regarding the cost of not doing something, the Department of Transport very helpfully published a report titled \"The Economic Cost of Congestion in the Regional Cities 2022-2040\". It states that, at a minimum, on an annual basis, traffic congestion in Galway is costing \u20ac35 million. This figure will rise to an estimated \u20ac107 million and more in 2040. We are not talking about the cost of fines, lack of productivity, travelling and so on. That report clearly stated that we need a proactive deployment of sustainable transport for the growing traffic congestion in Galway. I am saying clearly on the record that a significant amount of work has been done on this project. A feasibility study has been published stating that it is eminently doable. Regarding light rail on the ground, I collected 24,000 signatures in 2018 begging the Government to do this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I am familiar with the serious congestion in Galway city and the broader Galway region. As the Deputy knows, the National Transport Authority, NTA, has been developing the Galway metropolitan area transport strategy to inform what is possible for the future in the context of public transport but also road infrastructure in the Galway region, in conjunction with Galway City Council and Galway County Council. Part of the development of this metropolitan area transport strategy necessitated the mode-specific analysis being undertaken for a light rail feasibility study and the strategic roads feasibility study. The light rail feasibility study was published by the NTA on 30 October 2024. The backdrop is the ongoing consideration of the ring road, with which the Deputy is familiar.  I know the demand within Galway city for light rail. What we are doing in the NDP is prioritising transport infrastructure more generally. This will involve a serious uplift in investment in transport infrastructure over the next five years and the setting out of a longer term position to provide confidence in the development of public transport infrastructure in our cities, between our towns and within our regions. The metropolitan area transport strategy will help inform what is possible in the short to medium term. I know it is being progressed by the two relevant councils. I am open to that engagement as Minister.  Light rail in Dublin and other parts of the country has been of a stop-start nature. It is an effective way of delivering public transport in urban areas and we need to have a better pipeline of light rail over the longer term. The NTA and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, need to work on that in terms of the respective metropolitan area transport strategies.  There is a lot of interest in the development of the ring road in Galway for its citizens and the people Deputy Connolly represents. There are also people in Galway who want to see light rail developed as an option in the urban sphere. Congestion is a serious issue. When I canvassed in Galway on many occasions last year, public transport and the ring road accounted for probably 50% of the issues raised on the door by the many people I engaged with. As a Government, with our prioritisation of transport infrastructure, we want to make real progress on some of the projects that can be started quickly but also to set out the longer term position on transport strategy and what can be delivered for Galway and the broader west of Ireland region over the coming period. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  I welcome that the Government will prioritise transport in the revised plan. There is no sense of urgency when it comes to Galway city. Its growth has been hampered. It simply cannot develop. I do not have time to go into the lack of infrastructure when it comes to basic sewerage facilities. That is for another day and I have raised it before. I am sticking with just one issue today as one part of a sustainable solution. In 2018, 24,000 people signed a petition appealing to the Government to carry out a feasibility study. That took until last year. We cannot grow Galway. It is just a pretence and a mockery to say Galway can grow. It cannot. There is a lack of infrastructure. We then have obligations under our climate action plans. One of the easiest ways, the straightest way, to comply with those obligations is to roll out a public transport system with light rail and park-and-ride facilities. Park-and-ride was provided for in the city development plan in 2004, 21 years ago, and it still has not been rolled out. What we need from the Government is vision and boldness in the best sense of the word to give the thumbs up for light rail. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy, you are well over time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  I will finish on this. The Government should put light rail in the revised national planning framework. There will be a presentation on light rail in the audiovisual room at 3 p.m. I invite everyone to attend. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I think we all share the objectives of significantly improving transport infrastructure for Galway city. The work that has been undertaken around the feasibility study for light rail is important in that context. The National Transport Authority is considering that with the two relevant councils. There has been significant investment in Ceannt Station, as the Deputy knows, to try to improve connectivity for commuters. In Oranmore and elsewhere, there has been investment and upgrades and significant work has been undertaken related to BusConnects in Galway.  I welcome the work that has been undertaken around the feasibility study for light rail in particular. As I said previously, we need to build more momentum to have more light rail in some of our urban areas compared with recent years where its development has been of a stop-start nature. It is an effective way of delivering public transport, as we have seen in Dublin. It will be considered in the context of the national development plan. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul McAuliffe  I express my condolences to the family of Brother Kevin Crowley and in particular his colleagues who he worked with. As a freeman of Dublin city, he was a Cork man who made a huge impact on our city. I want to acknowledge that today.  I raise bundle 3 and the Minister\u2019s decision not to proceed with the tendering process related to that bundle. I served on Dublin City Council for ten years and for the best part of those ten years, we had public sites on which we wanted to build homes. We wanted to do that in a way that provided mixed communities. In recent years, Housing for All has given Dublin City Council the ability to build those mixed communities on those public sites through cost-rental, affordable and social housing. Across my constituency, many sites are proceeding on that basis, Oscar Traynor Road being the largest. People are delighted to see construction taking place and homes being built.  It was with some disappointment that we saw the Minister decide not to proceed with bundle 3. That bundle included nearly 500 homes, 200 of those are in my constituency, at Shangan Road and Collins Avenue. That has an impact on the broader bundles that are outstanding, bundles 4 to 7, inclusive, because of the 4,500 housing units across the whole country, over 1,000 are in my constituency. I am, therefore, particularly concerned about the future of these bundles and their delivery.  These bundles do exactly what local authorities should be doing. They involve taking sites with complex issues, resolving those issues and putting them out to tender for construction. The Shangan Road site, for example, is a dedicated older persons\u2019 complex. The Collins Avenue site is the Port Tunnel site which many people will have driven past. On the Church of the Annunciation site, an old church was demolished in partnership with the parish and we were able to identify potential for housing on that site. On Wellmount Road, we had a green space that was the subject of antisocial behaviour and we were able to put in place a solution. On the Collins Avenue bring centre, the DCU site, we relocated an old Dublin City Council depot, created a new one and created a site in the city. In Balcurris, we brought a number of sites together as a bundle. These are all measures the local authority has taken, on which solutions have been brought forward using the tools available in Housing for All.  We are very concerned. While we have to have value for money, we also want to see some of these sites, which have full planning permission, proceed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  The Department of housing, with the Minister for housing\u2019s approval, decided not to proceed to award the contract for social housing bundle 3 through a public-private partnership. The basis for that decision was that the cost per unit was more than \u20ac1 million and almost double the cost of similar units delivered in 2020. Unit costs at that scale would not be compatible with the overall delivery of what we need in our social housing targets. The Government and the relevant local authorities remain absolutely committed to delivering the social housing that the bundle was being designed to provide for. The Department of housing is now working with its programme leaders, the National Development Finance Agency and the four local authorities, to urgently advance these projects through an alternative procurement and delivery strategy. The Department is also initiating a review of future social housing through bundles to consider all options and determine the optimal procurement and delivery strategy for the Exchequer.  I acknowledge the need in the Deputy\u2019s community and the fact that these projects have received planning permission. However, when the cost per unit escalates to \u20ac1 million per home it will have knock-on consequences for other social housing projects down the line, both this year and in future years, in the context of the overall allocation for social housing. We need to maximise the delivery of supply in how we manage the social housing allocation in total. Part of that has been reflected in the Government's response of making increased provision for social and affordable homes as an in-year budgetary decision this year. We are cognisant of the local need. That is why there is an urgency in the Department of housing to work with the delivery partners on how we can identify an alternative procurement and delivery strategy to deliver much-needed homes in the Deputy\u2019s community. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul McAuliffe  I thank the Minister. As I say, when people see sites under construction they have some hope and belief that things are changing. When planning went out for these sites they saw the designs and plans for them. There is an expectation. I welcome that the Minister is taking this seriously and urgently. I also agree with the Minister. As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, I will not stand over the Government spending more than \u20ac1 million per unit. I can understand the difficulty. Just because a developer puts in a figure does not mean the Government has to pay that amount to deliver. I accept that but what we cannot accept is any significant delay. I ask the Minister for public expenditure and the Minister for housing to ensure the Dublin local authorities and the other local authorities impacted are presented quickly with a solution----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  They have been cancelled. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul McAuliffe  -----and the sites with full planning permission are given priority so we can get shovels into the ground and these homes can be built. They are the way forward for how we provide housing. That is what Housing for All is all about. We have hit a speed bump. We cannot pay any figure that is presented to us but we also have to act with urgency to find an alternative. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I acknowledge the urgent local need to advance these particular projects and also the fact that they have full planning permission. The Department of housing is now working with the National Development Finance Agency and all the local authorities to see how we can advance these projects through an alternative delivery strategy. They are also reviewing future public-private partnerships bundles so that we can deliver social homes at a better unit cost and deliver more of them with the overall Exchequer allocation that is made in the medium term.  I will reflect on what the Deputy said and pass on his comments to the Minister, Deputy Browne, who is keen to advance these units with the delivery partners and local authorities. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation","counts":{"speechCount":56,"speakerCount":24},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Willie O'Dea","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Willie-O'Dea.D.1982-03-09","memberCode":"Willie-O'Dea.D.1982-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  There are 18 Deputies offering and unless Deputies co-operate with time, there will be four who will not get in. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  The Minister came to the Chamber this afternoon with big folders and is surrounded by his colleagues, including the Minister for higher education, Deputy Lawless, but could not answer a straightforward question. It is not acceptable, smart or clever to come to the Chamber and refuse to answer a very straightforward question that students and their families need clarity on. Will their fees be set at \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? The Minister, Deputy Lawless, started this debate. He volunteered the information that fees would increase. I again ask the Minister to have the decency to be clear with students and their families and state the position clearly when he takes to his feet. If he cannot, the Minister, Deputy Lawless, should avail of the opportunity to make it clear whether students and their families will pay \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac,3000. It is a very straightforward question. Surely to God one of you can answer it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy James Lawless)  I thank Deputy McDonald. She has been in the House longer than I have, but she will understand that the budgetary process takes place in October, not June, July or August. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  It does not take place in a studio in RT\u00c9. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Have the respect to listen, please. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  The budgetary process is under way. I am fighting within the resources available for students and their families for the best possible outcome across the board in all of the measures the Minister, Deputy Chambers, outlined, including SUSI grants, fee thresholds and the student contribution fee, along with the cost of accommodation----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Will the fees be \u20ac2,000 or \u20ac3,000? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Allow the Minister to answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  No figure has ever been produced ahead of the budget in any area of Government spending, and that will not change this year no more than any other year. That has always been the position. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  The Minister has put the heart crossways in families. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  Ireland has long and historic ties with the US. Some half a million Irish residents visited last year and more than 30 million Americans claim Irish heritage. However, increasingly an authoritarian Trump government is causing real concerns, in particular for those who are undocumented Irish in America. We think about 10,000 such people are there. This is placing a strain on the relationship.  Last week, I raised the alleged unlawful detention of a Norwegian student by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE, in this House. I have heard from many Irish families who are concerned about their children, including students and young adults, travelling to the US and being detained or picked up. I have heard of worrying experiences since I raised this issue in the D\u00e1il, including from Irish citizens. There have been allegations from an individual who said they were detained by ICE for a period of months without charge and with no access to a lawyer or mobile phone for overstaying their visa by a couple of days. Irish residents need guidance and reassurance before making plans to visit the US. Families need to know that their children will be safe over there. Will the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade review the safety of the US for Irish citizens? What representations is the Government making to the US Government on this? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Deputy Jack Chambers)  I will allow the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to set out the specific representations that have been made at official or ministerial level. As the Deputy knows, a new ambassador arrived this week. The Minister met him this week and will be able to comment on his direct discussions with the US administration. The Ireland-US relationship is and continues to be important. I acknowledge the plight of residents and Irish citizens who live in the US and we are continuing diplomatic efforts for the undocumented Irish who live in the US. That is part of our wider engagement with the US Administration. I will ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to respond on the specific diplomatic efforts that have been made regarding what the Deputy referenced today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  My question relates to the insourcing and outsourcing of public healthcare. Yesterday, the Minister for Health published the HSE review of insourcing and outsourcing, which I welcome. The report confirms that the health service is over-reliant on these arrangements to reduce waiting lists. Despite the huge sums of public money involved, proper oversight has been severely lacking, leading to alarming and shocking abuses of the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, and clear conflicts of interest. While it is welcome that insourcing arrangements are to be phased out by June 2026, we also need to end the over-reliance of the health service on outsourcing to private hospitals and other external companies.  This aim is referenced in the review, but there is no timeline or action set out. Obviously, this cannot be done overnight. If it is to be achieved, we need to accelerate the delivery of Sl\u00e1intecare reforms. By 2028, four new elective hospitals were due to be delivered, but no planning applications have been submitted nor have business cases been approved. In May 2023, the then Minister for Health announced the delivery of six new surgical hubs within 18 months, but only one new hub has been opened 25 months on. Can the Minister commit to accelerating the elective care reforms and, crucially, funding them so that the dependency on outsourcing can be reversed? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)  It was very important to conduct the national assessment of insourcing, which I commissioned at the beginning of April because of my concerns, and to publish it. The Deputy has had an opportunity to consider it today. We have to use every lever to implement Sl\u00e1intecare, including rostering for five over seven days, the public only consultant contract and making the best case possible for as much investment in health infrastructure as this Government can do collectively. That includes elective hospitals and surgical hubs. I understand the surgical hub in Mount Carmel has seen over 1,000 patients; that is my understanding from the CEO of St. James's. I have asked for detailed information on what exactly has been happening and when. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I want to raise the inexplicable decision to cut SNA hours at Firhouse Educate Together National School. The school is already struggling to cope, with only eight SNAs catering for more than 90 children with additional needs. One parent wrote to me to tell me that her son started in the autism unit and with the amazing support of his teachers and SNAs was able to transition to a mainstream class and is proof of how early intervention and the correct support can help a child to integrate with his mainstream peers. She said the school needs an increase in SNA hours to give every child equal access to education as a basic human right, yet the Department is proposing to cut the SNA hours needed for inclusion and mainstream classes.  I raised yesterday how the Government is simultaneously trying to push children with mild general learning disabilities out of special schools and into mainstream education, which creates a need for more rather than fewer SNAs. This makes no sense. Will the Government consider it and ensure that SNA support is increased rather than decreased? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  As the Deputy can appreciate, I am not familiar with the specific school he referenced or what has occurred relating to SNAs, apart from stating that the overall number of SNAs will continue to increase nationally, along with the support we are providing for special education through the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, around school buildings, teachers, SNAs and other supports in schools. I will ask the Minister for education to respond to the Deputy on the specific case he referenced. There are review mechanisms, through engagement with the NCSE and others, on SNA allocations. I will ask that the engagement take place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Part of Citywest Hotel is now a holding or detention centre for those awaiting deportation. Is there a coherent policy? Are those awaiting deportation at IPAS centres allowed to roam free or are they locked into hotel rooms 24 hours a day? If detainees are held pre-deportation or pending prison transfer, that means the role of the centre is not purely accommodation; it is quasi-detention. Is using an hotel as a detention centre legal? It likely falls outside of the hotel emergency reception exemption and will be considered an unauthorised development unless retrospective planning permission is granted.  We also know for a fact that there has been no public consultation on safety and security protocols or an impact assessment on Citywest and, I presume, around the country. What is the plan for these situations? Obviously, it is inhumane to send families who have been in Ireland for a very long time back to other countries. This is why we need to dramatically speed up the process. Equally, there are people who do not have leave to remain who will forcibly resist any efforts to get them to leave. Should these people be roaming free in local communities? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  As the Deputy knows, the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, is committed to significantly improving the processing times for international protection applications and bringing the appeals component back to the Department of justice in order to streamline the process. Next year, progress on the EU migration pact will make a difference in terms of the timeframes around processing. I cannot comment on the specifics the Deputy referenced in terms of Citywest. I will ask the Minister for justice to respond on the specific circumstances the Deputy referenced. It is obviously a sensitive matter. I will not pre-empt what he says. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Connolly  In the aftermath of Storm \u00c9owyn, the Government committed to a full review of the response of the State to the impact of the storm. As we recall, across the west and north west, there were extensive periods of outages of water, electricity, broadband and communications services.  It has had a large impact on the minds of people in that part of the country. Even today, constituents have reported to me an increase in the occurrence of intermittent electrical outages as a result of Storm \u00c9owyn, which happened on 21 January. I am asking that we consider the publication of the report prior to the summer recess. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  There has been ongoing work across government relating to the lessons from Storm \u00c9owyn and the recovery efforts. The Minister, Deputy Calleary, who is here, has been prioritising the outcome of this in terms of his submission to the national development plan and how we build more resilience into our public infrastructure, whether that is in communications, community infrastructure or energy infrastructure. Every Minister has been extensively engaged on the specific lessons from the impact of Storm \u00c9owyn. I will ask some of the Ministers who have been centrally involved to respond to Deputy Connolly on what actions they have taken. It has been a constant focus of work since the storm occurred in late January. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Callaghan  I speak today about the cost of third level education in Ireland. The programme for Government states the Government will reform SUSI to better meet the needs of students and their families. This is something I welcome and I urge the Government to take action on it from this year onwards. My question today relates to the discontinuation of the reduction in the student contribution fee. Since the Minister, Deputy Lawless, made the announcement at the weekend, my phone has been hopping with parents and students throughout my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny worried and anxious about how they will find an additional \u20ac1,000 to put towards their student contribution fee in two months' time. Making education more accessible to hard-pressed parents is something I campaigned very strongly on during the general election. I know for a fact it is something that we in Fine Gael negotiated to be in the programme for Government. Now is not the time to row back on commitments made during the previous election and by this Government. How can the Minister justify increasing the student contribution fee for hard-pressed parents? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I thank Deputy Callaghan and I appreciate the question she has raised. As she has heard from the Taoiseach and the T\u00e1naiste, this will be considered in the context of budget 2026. All of us as a collective Government - Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael and the Independent Deputies - will work on strengthening the affordability of public services as a core priority. We want to make permanent changes to some of the costs that exist for students throughout the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  It is like an episode of \"Love Island\". "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  It is not your question, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  This work is ongoing. The Minister, Deputy Lawless, will publish the report on the cost of education and this will inform the budgetary discussion that will take place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn  As the Minister knows, the victims of the pyrite scandal in the east coast of Ireland, comprising 3,000 families, rightly received 100% redress. In the west of Ireland we did not get this. Worse, nine months ago the Government looked at the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland rates and increased the cap but this was for people who were new entrants. Hundreds of families are being denied more than \u20ac40,000. They cannot make the final payments to their builders. This has been going on for nine months. The Government said it would sort it out nine months ago. Every week I am told we will have the legislation. Will the Minister please promise us now, prior to the recess, that the legislation to allow for all homeowners in the scheme to avail of the increase in the cap, so they have a fighting chance of at least making up something towards 100% redress, will happen? There are two more weeks to go. It is absolutely essential that the legislation is introduced. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I thank Deputy Mac Lochlainn. I know the Minister met various stakeholders in Donegal in May, including representatives from the action group and many representatives on the council. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Browne, to set out the specific timeline relating to legislation and give Deputy Mac Lochlainn a specific answer to his question. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  I am glad to see the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, is here. Cluain Training and Enterprise Centre in Clonmel is a wonderful institution for young and old but mainly for adults. It has pottery-making facilities, a workshop that repairs tools and many areas of art and design. It is a fabulous centre for young people and I congratulate the board, under Seamus Leahy and Gerry Flynn. They are brilliant people. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, was good enough to visit recently. We need to have secure and continuing funding for the centre from the mental health and disability budgets. We need a dual or hybrid model to secure this centre. It has been there for decades. Many of the participants suffer from mental health issues and they get great solace from this great outlet. The Minister of State saw this when she met people there and engaged, and I thank her for it. We hope to have a dual funding model that will be secure. The board is doing its best and it needs support. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)  I thank Deputy McGrath for raising this issue and for attending the Cluain adult training centre with me and Councillor Siobh\u00e1n Ambrose a few weeks ago. It is an excellent facility which provides a range of services for those with disabilities, acquired brain injuries and mental health challenges. It supports people who might fall between the cracks otherwise. I was very impressed by the fact that the centre identifies the needs of trainees and tailors the supports to suit them. I have asked mental health officials to engage with the disability officials who attended on the day to come up with a comprehensive plan. We will try to work out a service level agreement. I understand the majority of the funding is being provided through the disability budget but the mental health budget also must step up and I am committed to doing so. I will keep Deputy McGrath up to date on developments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Frankie Feighan  I want to bring to the attention of the Minister for Health an issue raised by my colleague, Senator P.J. Murphy; namely, the revelation that sick certificates are being provided through some online platforms with no consultation between patients and doctors. From the point of view of medical practitioners, employers and patient safety, there are serious issues and concerns here. When it comes to someone's health, it is vital that a consultation between the doctor and the patient takes place. I understand the Minister for Health was in touch with the Medical Council recently and I welcome this. I hope some action will be taken. There are many waiting lists for GPs and primary care centres. I understand this is not the answer. I do understand there are genuinely people who become ill and are not in a fit position to work. On the other hand, this online service is wide open to abuse. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  This is an issue for enterprise, social protection and health. GPs are private practitioners. Many of them have contracts with the HSE to provide public services. Services provided outside of these are a private matter. The Medical Council is there to protect the public. Part of this is registering doctors as quickly as may be, and part of it is making sure that doctors operate to a very high standard. I encourage the Medical Council to reflect on the issue Deputy Feighan has correctly highlighted, recognising the impact it may have on employers, particularly small businesses. I assure him that everybody in government takes a strong interest in this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  It is scandalous that there are children with special needs today whose parents do not know whether they will be able to start school in the new term because the necessary SNA support is not yet in place. To give one example, there is a rural school in County Monaghan which has one SNA and one pupil who depends full time on this support. Another pupil is due to start at the school next month, who will also need a full-time SNA. This is the position of the school, the position of the preschool which the child is attending at present and the position of every professional who has worked with the child. The NCSE and the Government have not yet sanctioned the extra SNA at the school. In fact, the advice being given to the school is that the SNA who is already there should be shared between the two students. All of the evidence suggests this would be an extremely dangerous situation. It would not be an exaggeration to state that such an approach would present a significant risk to both students. Will the Government engage urgently with the NCSE to ensure this issue and the hundreds of other cases like it are urgently resolved? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I thank Deputy Carthy and I appreciate and agree on how essential an SNA is to any individual with additional needs in the classroom. I am not sure whether the school Deputy Carthy has referenced has appealed the particular allocation this year to the NCSE. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I will ask the Minister, Deputy McEntee, as I did with regard to Deputy Paul Murphy earlier, to respond on the specific case Deputy Carthy has referenced. Budget 2025 provided for 1,600 SNAs, the largest number ever allocated, which will bring to 23,000 the number of SNAs in our schools. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  That is no comfort to this family. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I appreciate that. We are committed to continued investment in special education in terms of staffing and, in many instances, the need for new buildings for special classrooms. I will ask the Minister, Deputy McEntee, to respond to Deputy Carthy on the specific case. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Carol Nolan  I want to raise the issue of TB. I want to make the point that farmers are key to our communities. They are also key to our economy.  I attended a very successful tractor run on Sunday. Large numbers were out raising funds for two local schools, Roscomroe National School and Coolderry National School, as well as a local charity called Living Links. There is huge concern regarding the TB proposals. We need to bring farmers with us and we need to protect and support them. I will quote from some of the farming organisations that have expressed concern. The deputy president of the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association, Eamon Carroll, has said he believes that the proposed measures will involve all of the TB burden being placed on farmers. The IFA's animal health chair, TJ Maher, has pointed out that the TB proposals are \"crude\" and suggested that the financial burden will be laid at the feet of farmers. Does the Minister accept the justified criticism? Will he go back to the drawing board and devise solutions? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I am acutely aware of the financial and emotional trauma associated with a TB breakdown and the associated hardship, as the Deputy said, for many farm families. TB disease levels in recent years have continued to increase. Over a 12-month period, a herd incidence of 6.43% has been recorded, with more than 43,000 reactors. That is a serious deterioration in the situation which we cannot allow to continue. That is why the Minister, Deputy Heydon, met with all of the key stakeholders in recent weeks and held a further meeting with farming bodies. He wants to advance proposals to try to address this in partnership with farm families and farm organisations. I can ask him to send the Deputy some of the detail regarding the additional measures he proposes to take with regard to the bovine TB programme to try to tackle the current rates of TB, which is a serious issue across the farming community. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  As the Minister knows, many settlements in east Cork were devastated by flooding during Storm Babet in October 2023. I met with the Midleton and East Cork Flood Protection Group last Friday, alongside my colleague, Councillor Eamonn Horgan. There is growing concern and frustration within the community about the rate of progress of flood relief works. We have had major delays with the installation of floodgates on homes and businesses and there are questions about their quality. The Midleton flood relief scheme is making its way very slowly towards the planning phase. However, smaller scale projects that would protect villages such as Mogeely, Castlemartyr, Killeagh and Rathcormac appear to be in limbo. Their residents are increasingly worried for the future. The flood risk that is particular to Whitegate, Ballinacurra, Ladysbridge and Youghal needs to be addressed. It is vital that the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, visits all the settlements in east Cork as a matter of urgency for an in-depth engagement in order that we have a clear roadmap on all aspects of flood relief for the months ahead. It would also be good to see the Taoiseach there because this is a huge issue for east Cork. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I appreciate the urgency of this for residents in Midleton and throughout east Cork. I was there with Deputies O'Sullivan and O'Connor after the storm nearly two years ago. A priority for the Government with regard to broader infrastructure more generally and for flood relief schemes in particular is how we can shorten the project life cycle. In many instances, flood schemes are taking far too long. The Minister of State, Deputy Moran, is leading on that work, but is also seeking to prioritise flood relief schemes around the new national development plan review, which is being undertaken. I will ask him to respond to the Deputy on the specifics relating to the schemes he mentioned. It is an absolute priority. The Minister of State is trying to advance and commence some of these schemes, which I know are of pressing need to communities that are worried, particularly as we enter the winter period when there will be a considerable concern about rainfall. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Willie O'Dea","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Willie-O'Dea.D.1982-03-09","memberCode":"Willie-O'Dea.D.1982-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Willie O'Dea  Last year, the Garda Commissioner finally gave his seal of approval to the provision of a new Garda station in the very heavily populated suburbs of Castletroy, Monaleen and Annacotty in Limerick city. I understand that the Government has set aside capital funding and approved capital funding for the project. Unfortunately, the task of identifying a site has been given to the Office of Public Works - this was more than 12 months ago - and the OPW, moving at its usual ponderous haste, has not yet identified a site. In the meantime, the people of that area have been subjected to a tsunami of crime because the area is not being properly policed. Will the Minister, his Department or another relevant Department intervene directly with the OPW to bring this matter to a conclusion? The 18,000 people in the area deserve no less. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I regret that crime has had a serious impact on the local community in the last 12 months. I engage with the OPW regularly and I will ask for an update on Castletroy Garda station. I will revert to the Deputy on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  At last Thursday's meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts, the Garda Commissioner confirmed that he had reported to the Minister for justice on the controlled delivery operation that related to the late Evan Fitzgerald. The Commissioner went on to say that he took note of the comments made in the Seanad by Senator McDowell with regard to what was or was not said in the currency of a live bail application, and that he had referred those comments to the ombudsman for consideration. On Sunday's \"This Week\" programme, the ombudsman's office confirmed that there is nothing further to be considered by it. Does the Minister for justice consider the matter concluded regarding what was or was not said in that District Court bail application? Does he intend to carry out any further inquiries on the matter? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  First, what happened was a shocking incident for everyone present in Carlow. I am limited in what I can say relating to these matters, some of which continue to go through the legal process. I can ask the Minister for justice to respond to the specific question the Deputy raised following the \"This Week\" programme. He will be in a better position to give the Deputy any detail or informed information on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan  Throughout Kilkenny, there are major ongoing issues with the school transport scheme. In Gowran, the Department advised last year that another school bus be added due to the increase in the population, but still no additional bus service has been allocated. In my own area of Ballyhale, families like my own have been pushed to send children to school outside of their parish, despite the school bus collecting their neighbours. There needs to be a parish rule in order that children can attend the primary school in their local community. Year in, year out we face the same challenges with the school transport scheme. Something is clearly not working. Will the Minister step in to ensure that bus services are in place for the coming school term? It is just mayhem at the school gates. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I appreciate the urgency of forward planning when it comes to school transport. Extensive work has been undertaken between the Department of education, Bus \u00c9ireann and other delivery partners to support that in communities across Ireland. I do not know the specifics behind what is happening in the Deputy's own constituency----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan  Bus \u00c9ireann needs to engage with people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  -----but I will ask the Minister and Bus \u00c9ireann to respond to the Deputy's specific needs. There is an ongoing engagement through the summer to ensure they provide the appropriate school transport services, which are of huge importance to counties across Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  As the Minister may be aware, some schools throughout the country have told parents that they have to buy specific tablets up to the value of approximately \u20ac600. Some of these parents have been speaking to me. Those who have three children in secondary school have had to go to credit unions so that they can pay \u20ac1,800 for these specific tablets. The schools are sending out the information telling parents that the tablets have to be a certain make, model and particular type of brand. For a lot of people, it is not affordable. This is happening despite the introduction of the free book scheme, which was intended to reduce the financial burden. It seems to be in contradiction of what was described last year when the Government was coming up with \u20ac9 million for pouches to reduce screen time. Will the Minister provide some clarification on why this is happening? It is not just happening in one school in Cork; it is happening across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  As the Deputy is aware, the Department of education fully appreciates that costs and funding can pose an issue for schools. It is constantly working to address this with enhanced financial supports which were advanced in budget 2025 for this year. Schools in any financial difficulty are asked to engage with the financial support services unit. I know that a priority for the Minister, Deputy McEntee, is to continue to improve the capitation grant in schools, for example. That is something that we worked to improve over series of years and is something that we will engage with over the coming weeks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I want to raise an important issue with the Minister. Cork City Council has sent a business case to the Government regarding the establishment of an integrated services hub.  Across our towns and cities we are seeing more and more needs arising for individuals, particularly adults who are homeless. Across Cork we have charitable organisations offering beds for people to sleep, groups providing food, and many other amenities as well but what do people do during the day in terms of services? They need to be provided with a service like this, which would be the first of its kind in Ireland. It would provide food, shelter, activities, supports and any additional information people need. In the long run this venue could be the location for the provision of a supervised drug injection centre for the city. Is the Minister aware of this business case? What is the Government's stance on it as an integrated services hub for Cork? Will a business case be signed off? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  I know we cannot have an over and back on this. I am not sure who it has been sent to. Is it the Department of housing? I assume it is. To what Government Department has it been sent? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I am unsure who it has been sent to. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jack Chambers  We will try to find out who within government has received the particular business case, or which Government Department, and indeed under what funding scheme it is proposed to support that particular project of an integrated services hub. We always welcome any initiative of local authorities, or indeed local communities, to provide rounded supports and services for vulnerable people in our community. We have countless examples of it happening in Dublin and it is positive to see such initiatives being proposed in Cork. I will ask whatever line Department to which it is being submitted to evaluate it and come back to the Deputy with a position. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Minister. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 1.21 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 2.20 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Sitting suspended at 1.21 p.m. and resumed at 2.20 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"All-Island Strategic Rail Review: Statements","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":7},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pat Buckley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney, for statements on the recommendations of the all-island strategic rail review. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney)  I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and Deputies. I welcome the opportunity to address the House this afternoon to update Members on the all-island strategic rail review. Rail represents a particularly enduring form of infrastructure. Rail lines built in the 1800s are still carrying passengers today. The decisions and investments we make for rail in this decade will similarly benefit the Irish people, economy and the environment to the end of this century and beyond. This is why it is so important to plan our rail network in a holistic and strategic manner looking at the impacts and benefits across all the regions of Ireland. This is the key strength of the all-island strategic rail review.  Before I discuss the review I would like to provide an update on the progress we are already making on processing rail projects across the country. The last few years have seen significant progress on investment in our national rail network to create a more efficient, safe and better service for the people of Ireland. Most recently, the opening of the new through platform at Kent Station represented a landmark day in the delivery of the Cork area commuter rail programme. I visited this project a couple of weeks ago. This platform will facilitate commuter trains to travel through Kent Station from Mallow to Midleton or Cobh without requiring passengers to change services. This will support a better rail service. This platform is just the first element of the programme to go live. Works are well under way on two other work packages, namely the twin tracking of the Glounthaune to Midleton line and the significant signalling upgrade. These elements of the programme are on course to be delivered by the end of next year and together with the new platform will lay the foundation for further enhancements of Cork commuter rail services. This will help to deliver a more frequent, efficient and reliable rail service to the people of Cork. These works all represent phase 1 of the programme, which received \u20ac164 million in funding from the EU recovery and resilience facility, and represents the largest ever investment in the Cork rail network in the history of the State.  I am happy to say that design has also commenced in relation to phase 2 of the programme, which can deliver eight new stations and provides for electrification of the Cork rail system. This will be advanced following the completion of phase 1 works subject to funding and relevant approvals. On 18 June a public consultation on phase 2 of the Cork area programme was launched, which will give the public a more detailed look at the proposals and an opportunity to share their views on the plan. The opening of the new platform at Cork's Kent Station is part of a series of train station upgrade works that are being progressed across the country. Works are progressing at Ceannt Station in Galway in addition to planning for a new station at Moyross and the development of a new Plunkett Station in Waterford. Planning permission for the additional train platform and a passing loop at Oranmore Station was also granted in February and works on this project should commence early next year. These station upgrades will provide enhanced passenger experience and improved accessibility. Crucially, they will enable increased capacity on the networks, helping us to plan for the future. For example, the upgrade of Ceannt Station in Galway will increase the number of platforms from two to five, which will support a growth in frequencies envisioned under the all-island strategic rail review. Another good example of progress being made is the reinstatement of the Foynes rail line. This project will bring back rail freight services from Limerick city to Shannon Foynes Port next year, supporting a broader vision for the expansion of rail freight services across the network. Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann also announced the purchase of 100 new freight wagons in May. These wagons will replace the end-of-life rolling stock and will enable movement of rail freight at faster speeds across the rail network. This purchase acts in support of our goals to increase the modal share of rail freight.  In the Dublin region DART+ is the most significant expansion of the electrified commuter rail service since the introduction of the original DART line in 1984. The DART+ programme will bring electrified DART commuter trains west as far as Maynooth and the M3 Parkway, south west to Hazelhatch and Celbridge, and north to Drogheda. It will double the rail city centre capacity from approximately 26,000 to 52,000 passengers per direction per hour, and it will triple the electrified network from approximately 50 km on the existing DART line today to 250 km in the future. We have seen positive news emerge from the planning system with the conditional planning for the DART+ West project, and full planning approval for the DART+ South West project in 2024. In addition, a planning application was launched for DART+ Coastal North last year. It is on the northern rail line from Connolly Station to Drogheda and the public will get to experience the first element of the DART+ programme with new battery electric DART carriages, which are currently undergoing testing and will go into service next year. These new carriages are significant not just because they will provide greater capacity and a better passenger experience but also because they are helping us to meet our decarbonisation goals. European Union funding has also been provided under the REPowerEU programme for the installation of battery electric train charging infrastructure at MacBride Station in Drogheda as part of the DART+ programme to support our national and European decarbonisation goals.  There have also been recent improvements in the cross-Border Enterprise rail service between Dublin and Belfast. The Enterprise rail service is the only cross-Border rail service on the island of Ireland. It is a well-known symbol of North-South co-operation and provides an important public transport link operating between Belfast and Dublin. The current Enterprise rail fleet will reach the end of its standard design life later in this decade and an Enterprise fleet replacement programme is now well advanced. Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann and Translink Northern Ireland Railways have successfully applied for funding of \u20ac165 million for the project under the PEACEPLUS cross-Border EU programme, which is managed by the Special EU Programmes Body, a North-South implementation body established under the Good Friday Agreement. The balance of funding for the project will be provided jointly through the Department of Transport and the Department for Infrastructure in Northern Ireland on a 50:50 basis. This project will build on the introduction of an hourly Enterprise train service in October 2024, which is supported by the Shared Island Fund. The Enterprise fleet replacement programme will support a significant increase in rail passengers on the Dublin-Belfast corridor compared with today, with annual passenger numbers on the Enterprise services expected to reach 2.5 million in 2032.  With regard to the all-island rail review, the programme for Government is clear on the need to continue investment in our national rail network, noting that we will work collaboratively to act on the recommendations of the all-island strategic rail review to improve connectivity across the island of Ireland. The review, which was published in July of last year, was led by my Department and the Department for Infrastructure in Northern Ireland. The groundbreaking report set out a strategic vision for the development of the rail system across the island of Ireland over the coming decades. By taking a holistic and strategic review of the rail network across the island of Ireland rather than looking at one region or another, the review not only encourages balanced regional development but also looks at how individual lines or projects fit into and strengthen the wider network in its entirety. The review considered how the rail network on the island of Ireland can be developed to contribute to decarbonisation, promote connectivity between cities, enhance regional and rural accessibility, and support balanced regional development with a particular emphasis on the north west of the island, among other goals. The review examined existing, disused and potential new lines on the network, and also considered the future role for rail freight. The final review sets out 32 strategic recommendations to enhance and expand the rail system over a period to 2050, aligning with net-zero carbon emissions in both jurisdictions. The recommendations set out to transform the quality of the rail system to the benefit of passengers and the wider society on the island through additional capacity on the rail network, increased service frequencies, and developing new rail lines. These investments will support higher frequency and more efficient passenger and rail freight services.  On this basis, the report\u2019s recommendations envisage huge benefits being created for rail on the island. Upgrading much of the single-track rail network to double-track, with four-track in some areas, will provide additional capacity. New 200 km\/h intercity trains will provide faster services, with rail journey times between cities significantly reduced and, in some cases, halved. There will be higher frequency train services, at least hourly between cities and at least every two hours on regional and rural routes. In line with Ireland's decarbonisation goals, there will be a carbon net-zero rail system achieved, primarily through the overhead electrification of intercity routes and new electric trains.  On creating wider connectivity, the rail review recommends that the rail network route length on the island should increase from approximately 2,300 km to almost 3,000 km, with the reopening of former and new rail lines, including the previously mentioned western rail corridor. Wider access will be facilitated by new rail routes in the north midlands and north west, meaning 700,000 more people would live within 5 km of a train station. High-level economic analysis conducted as part of the review indicates that the benefits of the package of recommendations broadly equal their cost, indicating economic feasibility.  I am delighted to say that included among these 32 recommendations is the reinstatement of the western rail corridor between Claremorris and Athenry. The reinstatement of this line has the potential to support both passenger and rail freight services, allowing a direct route for freight services from Ballina and Westport to ports on the south coast to avoid the more congested lines of the rail network around Dublin. This route would also reconnect Tuam to the railway and enable direct passenger services between Galway and Mayo, supporting regional development in the area. This project serves as an example of the types of benefit that interventions proposed under the rail review can provide right across our rail network.  My Department is currently working with the European Investment Bank, EIB, and rail stakeholders north and south of the Border, including the National Transport Authority, NTA, and Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann, to consider how best to sequence and implement the recommendations of the rail review with a view to optimising their development for passengers and society. This work includes the preparation of a project prioritisation strategy. This strategy has been broadly agreed by the project steering group and will be published later this year. It considers how best to optimise the sequencing and implementation of the review recommendations, including both short-term interventions and longer-term projects. The early interventions identified in the strategy encompass investment across regions of the rail network aimed at adding capacity and resilience through improvements works that can be made relatively easily and quickly and without the need for planning permission. It should be feasible to deliver them in the short term, subject to funding.  In relation to major interventions, the strategy identifies a series of major projects for completion or substantial completion over the medium term. These projects will provide for capacity enhancements and electrification of the network to help deliver on the vision set out in the all-island strategic rail review. For major projects, work is also progressing with the EIB on conducting a more detailed analysis. This analysis will support the preparation of documents required as part of the appraisal process as set out under the infrastructure guidelines, which should help expedite their approval.  Ireland has used funding from the European Union to advance a number of rail projects over the decades, and as I previously noted, we are currently using funds from the EU to advance works as part of the Cork area commuter rail programme and install charging infrastructure at Drogheda to support the roll-out of a battery electric fleet, and we have applied for funding to support the purchase of new rolling stock for the cross-Border Enterprise rail service. Leveraging EU grant and other funding opportunities can play an important role in advancing the interventions set out in the rail review. For this reason, work being supported by the EIB will also include an examination of potential funding sources available to advance these projects.  My Department is using this strategy as an input into our engagement as part of the review of the national development plan, NDP, which is currently well under way. As a Department, we are actively engaged with our colleagues in the Department of public expenditure on reviewing the current NDP and seeking to deliver improved transport outcomes for citizens across the country. I hope that this NDP will build on the successes that we have seen since publication of the last NDP.  While there is a renewed focus on improving delivery, it is also important to acknowledge the delivery that has occurred since publication of the last NDP in 2021. In public transport, new bus and train fleets are already in service, with new DART fleet in testing for service entry next year and an order for a new Enterprise train fleet expected to be signed later this year. On the rail network, charging facilities are being constructed in Drogheda to support those new battery electric units already mentioned, a new station opened at Pelletstown, another is under construction at Woodbrook and yet another new station is under construction in Waterford, forming the centre of a new city quarter on the North Quays.  There is also the largest ever investment in Cork\u2019s rail network under way with the new platform in Kent already opened, signalling upgrades under construction, and double tracking from Glounthaune to Midleton well under way. In Limerick, Colbert Station has been redeveloped with a modern, integrated bus, rail and public realm project completed and open for use, and the disused Foynes line is being brought back into service as a freight line. In Galway, Ceannt Station is being redeveloped and is expected to be finished later this year, with the Oranmore station expected to start next year.  With all of this infrastructure being designed with accessibility in mind, significant progress has been made in improving accessibility for all. This year, we have increased funding by 67% from 2024 for the retrofitting of legacy infrastructure to make it more accessible, particularly for disabled people and older people.  I look forward to working closely with the NTA and Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann in the coming weeks, months and years to make these investment plans a reality. Today, I met representatives of the north-west city region from Donegal, Derry and Strabane. We discussed the all-island rail review. It is important to emphasise that this review is an all-island one and we have to work together to ensure that we deliver it. I had a very positive meeting with the representatives and their officials. I look forward to engaging with them on an ongoing basis.  My principle with public transport is that if we provide a good service with frequency, we will provide an attractive, alternative mode of transport to the car. We have to make sure that, when we develop lines and add capacity, we also put the carriages in place to meet the demand. Previously, a Deputy on the other side of the House mentioned the Athenry to Galway line. The passing loop there will help frequency in the short term. In the longer term, we will be looking at the double tracking of the line. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  The all-island strategic rail review sets out a vision for the development of Ireland's rail system to 2050. It was jointly commissioned by the Department of Transport and the Department for Infrastructure in the North. The review aptly demonstrates the advantage of taking an all-island view, which the Minister of State hinted at. Appropriately enough, it has 32 recommendations. These aim to enhance connectivity across the island, with high-speed trains, an expansion of the rail network, double-track upgrades, new intercity trains and increased frequency. We have all seen that, when new trains are put on, the frequency of use doubles or triples. We hope for a tripling of passengers using the rail system.  For decades, successive short-sighted Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Governments have systematically dismantled the rail lines and services. Services were run down and then abandoned or ceased. Rural Ireland, particularly in the west and north west, has suffered immensely from this. For example, the northern and western regions rank in the bottom 20 of the EU's 234 regions for transport infrastructure. This is incredible in a modern, progressive country. All this did was strip away some of the essential building blocks of well-connected, efficient and sustainable transport systems. Short-term economic thinking often took priority over long-term infrastructure and planning.  We must not repeat the same mistakes.  Our network is nearly 200 years old and it is an essential strategic asset that must be planned beyond short-term economic cycles. The review is an important step in correcting some of the wrongs of the past and will help us to prepare for a unified Ireland in future. If we get this right, we can benefit all of the people of the island into the next century. We must correct the regional imbalances created by decades of bad planning.  This review could also help to unlock housing along the lines through transport-oriented development. There is also potential for Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann to develop unused sites in town centres for affordable housing, perhaps for their staff or the general public.  It is important to note that a year has passed since the review was first published and it is two years since the draft review was published. It is all well and good to have plans on paper but we must ensure they are put into action.  It is also worth noting the record of Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann under Jim Meade. It is doing a fantastic job and delivering projects on time and on budget. It can continue to do this if the Government gets serious and ensures that the pipeline of projects is sanctioned and resourced effectively. The Minister of State mentioned the western rail corridor. There is no doubt that should be progressed all the way to Sligo as soon as possible. If Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann is given the job, it will do it. We must invest now in Ireland\u2019s future. I implore the Minister of State to ensure there are proper services on the network.  There is only a trolley service on one or two train routes. One cannot get so much as a bottle of water, which is unacceptable in this day and age. I urge the Minister of State to do as much as he can to ensure directly employed staff, ideally, operate such services on all routes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  The differences are striking when we look at a map of Ireland's current rail network compared to the network of 100 years ago. I refer in particular to the absence of infrastructure from the west, the north west and Border counties. The reality is that we have gone backwards in recent decades. Plans are one thing but we need implementation to progress new projects in a timely manner and to address the imbalance in regional infrastructure.  The western rail corridor is critical to the region. It has been talked about and put on the long finger for years. If the Government is serious about regional development, this project must be progressed. We must get a move on. The project is shovel-ready and can be delivered in the lifetime of this Government. We cannot have the same debate in five years' time.  The benefits of rail are well known in terms of taking cars off the road, reducing congestion, enhancing freight potential and delivering a sustainable transport link for the people of north Galway and Mayo into Galway city and ultimately on to Sligo as well. There cannot be any more delays on this project, which must be commenced as soon as possible.  The double-tracking of the Athenry to Galway line is critical. Athenry is at the crossroads of the Ennis and future Claremorris sections of the western rail corridor and the Dublin to Galway line. Double-tracking is needed to ensure we have a proper commuter service between Galway city and county and to cities right across the country.  As the Minister of State outlined, the passing loop at Oranmore and the redevelopment of Ceannt Station are very welcome, as is the capacity study on the Galway to Dublin line, which was announced in recent days.  Similar to the western rail corridor, the current issues and the benefits of implementing improvements are well known. Reports are one thing but delivery is another. That is where the Government has always been lacking. Commuters are sick and tired of overcrowded services, delays and restrictions because of the single track and the total absence of infrastructure, as is the case in north Galway and Mayo.  We need ambition and to future-proof the rail infrastructure and, crucially, get projects delivered. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Investment in rail infrastructure in the north west is crucial if we are in any way serious about balanced regional development. Donegal is one of the few counties on the island of Ireland that does not have a rail network. That is simply unacceptable. The rail review has proposed linking Derry and Letterkenny, which is crucial for the north-west city region, as well as connectivity with Belfast and a spur to Dublin.  I would love to see a direct line from the capital city, Dublin, to the fourth largest city on the island, namely, Derry. It is my ambition to achieve that. It is appalling and shows the effects of partition that, in this day and age we simply do not have a connection between those two cities. What we deserve is a fully costed commitment from the Government on a Letterkenny to Derry line, the other potentials that exist, how we deliver the project, and the timeframe for it. We must make sure that Donegal is no longer a forgotten county. It is not acceptable anymore, in particular when we talk about all the challenges, including regional development and climate change. Donegal has simply been forgotten in regard to rail and that cannot continue any longer. I seek commitments from the Government to push this forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I thank Deputy Doherty. I congratulate him on finishing on time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maurice Quinlivan  Fittingly, the all-island strategic rail review contains 32 recommendations across six headings. I welcome the all-Ireland nature of the document and its commitment to increasing rail coverage across the island.  I commute to Leinster House most weeks on the Dublin to Limerick train. I acknowledge the staff who service Colbert Station in Limerick city on this route. They are always friendly, approachable and very informative. However, there are significant gaps in railway coverage and a lack of regional balance on the current lines. The strategic review is timely and necessary, as far too many lines have been closed by successive Governments in recent decades. I hope this review and the more localised transport strategies will be the spur that allows lines to be reopened and rail services across the State to be enhanced.  The report recommends an increase in frequency on regional lines, including Galway to Limerick, Limerick to Cork and Limerick to Ballybrophy. The Ballybrophy line, which contains the Castleconnell to Limerick route, operates only three times per day and it is important for this frequency to be increased. It is bonkers that we do not use this line more because it would bring hundreds of people to the city every day.  The report notes the limited local rail services in Limerick. I welcome that construction is anticipated to begin next year on a train station in Moyross. This should be the start of a more complete service within Limerick city. In Limerick, we have existing lines that can be developed into a comprehensive suburban rail service to serve local journeys. We all want to see fewer cars being used for short journeys and sustainable intracity transport options could be a fantastic alternative.  In examining transport options for Limerick, the strategic rail review highlights the case of the city of Exeter in the UK. The city has a similar population size and geographical layout to the Limerick-Shannon area. The suburban rail network in Exeter delivers a two-train per hour service to eight stations within the city and a further 12 that fall outside the boundary of the city. This could easily be replicated in Limerick.  In the short time remaining, I want to mention the rail spur to Shannon Airport, which is critical for the future of the economy in the mid-west region. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pat Buckley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pat Buckley  Many Corkonians have happy memories of taking the train to Youghal on a summer day. The train might have 14 carriages but we would be lucky to get a seat on the train from Midleton. Sadly, the train service between Cork city and Youghal has not been in operation for almost 30 years, when passenger services were withdrawn. An online petition has received more than 6,000 signatures, which shows the hunger among the people of Youghal to have this train service back up and running. Irish Rail owns the land, and a space has been kept alongside the new greenway that could easily accommodate a new twin-track or light rail line. Every five years, there is a review to assess the demand and viability of a potential route connecting the city to Youghal. Irish Rail has indicated that it is willing to look at reopening the line, if it receives the funding to do so. Regrettably, the reopening of the line from Midleton to Youghal is not included in the all-island strategic rail review.  I have raised the issue with TII and the NTA approximately three times every year for the past seven years. I have asked for a park-and-ride facility in Youghal to service the rail station but, unfortunately, it has not been forthcoming. If the Cork to Youghal rail line is restored, it would reduce carbon emissions, improve air quality, decrease traffic congestion on the N25 and contribute to a more sustainable environment.  I met F\u00e1ilte Ireland this morning. We discussed Youghal and Cobh, but especially Youghal, where the congestion on the N25 is holding back tourism and the growth of business. The bridge at Belvelly in Cobh is affecting the Port of Cork and housing. A rail service would deliver significant advantages to commuters, tourists, businesses and the environment. It would make a valuable addition to Ireland's rail network. I urge the Government to please support the reopening of the historic Cork to Youghal line and ensure it is included in any future transport planning and investment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"All-Island Strategic Rail Review: Statements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Visit of Peruvian Delegation","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  The Peruvian ambassador and officials from the embassy are in attendance in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery. They are very welcome to our proceedings. I thank them for their visit. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Visit of Peruvian Delegation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"All-Island Strategic Rail Review: Statements (Resumed)","counts":{"speechCount":24,"speakerCount":23},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Keira Keogh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor D. McGuinness  The all-island strategic rail review is a positive step.  We have to acknowledge that, but only if it leads to real delivery across the whole island and not just around Dublin. As Sinn F\u00e9in spokesperson for rural and community development, I have to say the current approach to transport planning is failing our regions. The national planning framework in inadequate. It continues to prioritise the capital while neglecting infrastructure for rural and regional communities. The review cannot become another glossy document that locks in underinvestment west, south and north of the M50. We need rail to connect communities not just to Dublin, but across the regions. That means serious investment in regional rail, frequent and reliable services, and the reopening of disused lines where there is demand. A functioning balanced rail network is essential for rural sustainability, economic development and regional balance.  The Youghal to Midleton railway is a community-led project that deserves Government backing. There is a wide campaign in east Cork, but also in west Waterford. Somebody might ask why a TD from west Waterford is supporting an additional rail line stretching from Midleton to Youghal. It is crucial, not just for east Cork, but for west Waterford and the wider region, as it will take cars off the road, assist commuters travelling into Cork, including Little Island and Cork city, for work, and provide options to people for either park-and-ride at Youghal or to drive on less congested roads. Reopening this line would allow those travelling from Waterford to Cork to get to work on time with minimal stress. It would take cars off the road. The physical corridor is intact and runs beside the existing greenway. The community is on board. There is broad support across business and communities for this. Once again, however, we see no plan, no funding commitment, no engagement from the Government. That is not good enough. This is exactly the kind of strategic investment that could deliver real change for regional communities. I am calling on the Government to support the extension of the Cork-Midleton rail line into Youghal. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  I support my colleague. I well understand why Waterford people might want to come to Cork. I do not think we should deprive them of that opportunity at all.  Any time there is a debate on rail infrastructure, there is a fair bit of interest right across the country. That reflects a significant shift in people's mentality in the last 20 or 30 years. If we go back 50 or 60 years or even more recently, rail lines were still being closed. There has been a shift. It reflects that people want the opportunity to use rail and if it is there, they will take it. Anywhere rail lines have been reopened or new rail lines have been initiated, they have been a success.  I acknowledge the work that has been done in Cork by Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann, led by A.J. Cronin's team, including Kieran Murphy and Stephen Hackett. A lot of progress has been made and there is more to come. There will be decisions in the forthcoming period about electric carriages and where they will go. We want to make sure that they are everywhere. If they are delivered to Cork on time, it will ensure some of the new routes being talked about become viable at the frequencies that are necessary.  I will briefly touch on the issue of a Luas for Cork. It is a vital piece of infrastructure. I welcome that we are now talking about it in real terms. We need to learn from the mistake in Dublin, where there were two routes that were not connected. We need to move the Cork plan from one route to two so that most of the city is served east to west and north to south. There is a gap for places like Douglas, Rochestown and into Carrigaline. They are big, populous areas with heavy traffic. We should be connecting the north of the city as well. It is an area that is often neglected in terms of infrastructure. Due to the way the Dublin Luas is set up, we imagine that such operations have to be run through private contractors. I do not believe so. I do not see any reason a public body should not be able to run the Cork Luas, and who better to do that than Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann? Clearly from the public point of view, it is the agency that could do it. That needs to be considered and is something I would support. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I am delighted to speak on the all-island rail review. We need to see a major modal shift in how we get ourselves from one place to another on this island so that we are not so dependent on our cars. Rail will obviously play a huge role in that. We have a somewhat sorry history in this country when it comes to rail infrastructure. What was once a fairly comprehensive rail network in the early parts of the 20th century was progressively ripped up as time went on. There are a number of reasons for this but it was mainly due to the proliferation of private car use. With that, rail infrastructure made way for road infrastructure, not least in Dublin city, where our tramlines were ripped up.  I want to get us back to where we were previously in terms of coverage and to restore that once great rail network. I hope that this strategic review can provide some of the impetus and a template to do just that. I have concerns, though. They are not necessarily about what is included in the review, but what is omitted. I am conscious that this is not a policy document, but something to inform policymakers. I encourage this and future Governments to implement the recommendations that have emerged from the review but also to go beyond it and fill in those gaps that have been missed.  Others have raised and will raise their own concerns and mention where they think improvements could be made. I will come back to mine and begin with the positives. There is a lot to be positive about in this document. As the Labour Party's spokesperson on climate, energy and environment, as well as our transport spokesperson, I welcome the fact there is a strong focus on decarbonisation in the review. The DART remains the only electrified heavy rail line in the country and the last significant project undertaken here, in terms of electrified heavy rail, was the DART extension to Greystones 25 years ago. We need to do so much better than this. Rail has a big part to play in helping us reduce our transport emissions and the electrification of our rail lines will be key to that. I recently met Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann CEO Jim Meade and I know he is very keen on this element. I left that meeting with Jim Meade thinking he should be running the country, to be honest. I also welcome the focus on improving frequency and efficiency for service users. That would be key to encouraging people to use our rail systems. That is something we could really do with in the short term.  Broadly, we need to be more strategic and flexible in our timetabling. We could be doing better around facilitating more frequent services during peak demand times or when big events are happening. The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, will be aware of the situation with the DART services following the recent Charli XCX concert in his constituency.  I appreciate the focus on interconnectivity between our major cities. This is crucial to regional and balanced economic development. However, regarding emissions, I question why a direct line between Cork city and Limerick city has not been included. I also question why the western rail corridor has not been extended to Donegal in this review. The north west has been abandoned in terms of rail infrastructure and the proposals in the review do not rectify that to any great extent. If we do want to achieve balanced regional development, that needs to be looked at.  Staying with the west, I will raise a matter on behalf of my colleague, Senator Nessa Cosgrove. The review mentions reinstating the Athenry to Claremorris line but not the Claremorris to Collooney line. We would like to see that line reinstated.  I have not spoken about MetroLink, as I am sure my colleague, Deputy Duncan Smith, is going to cover that. However, as a TD for Dublin South-West, I reiterate my call for an independent feasibility study for a metro out to there. It was included in the programme for Government but is nowhere in the strategic rail review. We would like to see that. There are more than 350,000 people living in Dublin South-West with no access to rail infrastructure unless they live on the very edge of the constituency. All I am asking for is a fair assessment of the case, given the issues identified with a previous feasibility study. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  I welcome the time to speak on this topic. The northern commuter line is one of the most stressed lines in this country. The plan in the all-island strategic review, which is a long-distance project, aims at four-tracking that line. That is a must for towns like Donabate, the population of which is going to increase by up to 5,000 people in the next couple of years, or 25%. It is the first stop outside the DART line and the last stop on the northern commuter line coming in. They are unable to get on the train at peak times. Where this Government is building houses, it needs to put infrastructure. There is a plan for a spur from Clongriffin to the airport. In the context of the MetroLink examinations, it was proven that would not work unless there was a four-track provision along the northern commuter line all the way into Connolly Station. We need MetroLink. We expect a decision very shortly. It is the most vital transport project for Dublin, particularly for the northside of Dublin. I hope we will have a positive outcome for the planning process soon and we can get building that.  There is an awful lot to welcome in this all-island rail review, but the northern commuter line needs massive upgrading and investment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I want to talk about my hometown of Athy. I have been dealing with Irish Rail over the last period about increasing the frequency of rail services from the commuter town of Athy into Dublin. I was pleased with a recent response from Irish Rail that told me the imminent DART+ fleet coming on stream would free up additional carriages. We are looking for an hourly service from Athy and also on the Waterford line. That would definitely benefit the huge increase in the population of Athy but also the commuting towns right down to the city of Waterford. Unfortunately, Athy has an overreliance on private transport. Having an hourly service from the town into Dublin would be most welcome.  Irish Rail's reply stated that it would be based on demand and the NTA's approval.  In the past three or four days, I put a petition online and it already has 2,000 signatures, which I will share with the Minister of State at the end of the day. There is demand for an hourly service from Athy to Dublin for all those commuting. As part of this review, I hope the Minister of State will consider that hourly service from Athy and other commuter towns along the Waterford line to Dublin and providing the additional carriages on the line to accommodate it. The demand is obvious from the petition I put up online recently. I hope the Government will give the people the necessary services they deserve. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  I will cut to the chase. North Drogheda objectively needs a train station. It should already be in place. I was on Louth County Council more than 20 years ago when we masterplanned the provision of 5,000 new homes. Half of those homes have been or are in the process of being built. These plans included a site for a train station, but then came the crash. Up to half of those homes, as I said, have been built or they are in process and we still do not have a new station.  The profile of the new residents of that area suggests that a high proportion of them are commuters. Getting from that side of Drogheda, which will be Ireland's next city, Ireland's smallest city, to the train station can be a real challenge in the morning. DART+ will create capacity issues. As Deputy Smith said, we need four-tracking and suggestions have been made for a four-tracking initiative parallel to the M1 up to Clongriffin. It is an intriguing suggestion and absolutely makes sense.  Let us get to the point where we can establish the Drogheda east station. That is how it is referred to in the plan. Let us get it up and running, even with a limited service for now to relieve congestion and provide those commuting opportunities from north Drogheda for the thousands of people who live there at the moment. Will the Minister commit to including the provision of the Drogheda east station in the policy initiative that I understand will be developed later this year based on the rail review proposals? The review does not mention Dunleer station at all. It was closed a few decades ago. Will the Minister confirm whether, if there is no mention in the review of a station reopening, it means the prospect of opening it, that is the station in Dunleer, is buried or gone once and for all? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  As a public representative from the west of Ireland, I want to talk to the Minister of State as another public representative from the west of Ireland about the need to connect Shannon Airport to the rail network. This can be done within five years. It needs to be included in the NDP review. What a testament it would be to the Minister of State and what a legacy he would leave if he was the person to deliver it and get it over the line. It could even be named \"the Canney train\".  There is existing commuter rail infrastructure in Limerick. The line from Limerick to Ennis and on to Galway works well. It was said the western rail corridor would be a flop. It is not a flop. It works so well that on trains from Athenry to Galway people are like sardines at the moment. We need to deliver a direct train from Limerick to Cork and get the rest of the commuter rail network in Limerick activated again. The plan is there. It needs to be included in the NDP review. It is the solution to all our traffic problems in Limerick because none of this infrastructure was ever taken away. The rights of way are there. There is no compulsory purchase order, CPO, involved. It has been transformational to see how quickly Limerick to Foynes has gone from being a litany of derelict sites to the point that signalling equipment is being put in, which is happening at the moment. That can be done with the rest of the network. Let us get the suburban rail network in Limerick, as is being done in Cork at the moment. I imagine there is some political pressure there because of the Taoiseach being a Cork man. I want to make the case strongly for rail in the NDP. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I have listened in envy to some of my colleagues talk about the wonderful rail services they have and how much more they need, because in this rail review the Rosslare line was an afterthought. Hardly any consideration was given to improving the services south of Wicklow town. While I welcome that we are talking about extending the DART services to Greystones in Wicklow, it is intended in this review to force passengers south of that line - those who get on in Rathdrum, Arklow, Gorey or stations further south - to change trains in Wicklow or Greystones. That is not going to happen on any other line. On a cold wet morning, commuters will have to change trains and no consideration has been given to those with disabilities or mobility difficulties.  There is talk of doubling the number of lines from two to four on the northern line. Can we also consider doubling it on the Rosslare line from one to two? We hear colleagues talking about the services that are provided. Let me look at the services for commuters in areas around the country that are equidistant from Dublin. For those coming from Dundalk or Drogheda, as Deputy Nash does, there are 16 services available every day. From Portlaoise, which is also the same distance from Dublin as some of the areas I represent, there are 32 services. From Carlow, there are 11 services. However, if you are travelling from Rathdrum, Arklow or Gorey to Dublin there is a maximum of six services on any day and we are served by the worst rail carriages in the country. When I raised this recently with Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann, the promise for improving carriages was that, when it puts all the new carriages on all the other tracks, it will give whatever is left over to Rosslare.  The problem is we are not seeing improvements to the M11. I raised this when Eamon Ryan was Minister for Transport. The M11 is the spine that runs through Wicklow and Wexford and links us with the capital. If we do not see improvements on that route, one would expect us to be trying to get people onto the trains, but the rail service serving the east coast is not fit for purpose.  Part of the challenge, especially when coming in from Bray, is there are six level crossings that delay some of the services. Can they be removed? Equally, commitments have often been made around areas to allow the trains coming from Rosslare to pass the DART on the southside of Dublin. All we are asking for is that we would go some way towards providing a service for counties Wicklow and Wexford to match the services in other parts of the country. I will quite happily call it \"the Canney train\" if the Minister of State delivers it. We might even go so far as to call it \"the Canney line\". "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  No pressure. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Keira Keogh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Keira Keogh  I thank the Minister of State for being here. I will address the all-Ireland strategic rail review from the perspective of its profound significance to County Mayo. I am lucky to have a door-to-door service from Westport to Dublin, but if I want to go to Galway, which is the nearest city, I would have to go to Athlone and then back to Galway and if I want to go to Sligo, I have to drive or take the bus. It would be fantastic if students in particular were able to get from Mayo to Galway by train, especially as we are struggling with the housing crisis. We want a more connected and more equitable Ireland.  Some 32 strategic recommendations came out of the review. One of the lines to be reinstated has to be the western railway corridor between Claremorris and Athenry. Deputy Sheehan spoke about the success of the new route in Limerick. Lots of compliments have been thrown out, but if we got a train all the way to Ireland West Airport, we could call it \"the Canney Express\". We are all bidding for the Minister of State's attention.  In all seriousness, the Claremorris to Athenry line is a vital piece of railway. It would be a lifeline for regional development and would restore a vital link between Mayo and Galway, offering new economic, tourism and commuter opportunities. Reconnecting the rail line from Claremorris to Athenry would enable students from the west to more easily access third level education in Galway and Limerick. It would be an equaliser and would also ease pressure on some of the urban housing hotspots if people could travel from rural areas in the west into cities such as Galway.  Ballina also plays a regional key role as a freight hub that connects Mayo to industries in Dublin Port. With strategic investment, that link could be strengthened, making Mayo a logistics leader. As I said, if we get the train to Shannon Airport and the train to Knock Airport, just imagine the industry we could support. It would also reduce the number of freight trucks on the roads, lowering our emissions and supporting our climate commitments.  I acknowledge a huge increase in the number of services on the Dublin to Westport route. There are now five services from Monday to Thursday and six on Fridays. However, it is recommended we have a train every two hours. As a new TD, I tried to take the train to Dublin to reduce my emissions.  Three times I took the train to Dublin and three times I had to rent a car to get back to Mayo in time for meetings. Increased services would help our students, workers coming from the west to the east and families and tourists alike.  I will finish on this note. We need to bring the trolley back on trains from Dublin to Westport. It sounds like a nice-to-have but it is a journey of three and a half hours for some people. Many members of the older population and tourists get on the train without realising there is no trolley service. There is not a bottle of water available if there is an emergency. There are no vending machines. I consistently receive emails from my constituents about this. Having raised the issue with the NTA and recently with Irish Rail, I feel the promise to bring the trolley back is going backwards, not forwards. Mayo cannot be left behind. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Erin McGreehan  I am very pleased to contribute to these important statements on the all-island rail review recommendations. This is a chance to make a generational change, transform people's lives, connect people and communities across the island, strengthen our economy and, importantly, reduce our carbon emissions.  Fianna F\u00e1il welcomes this work, which was undertaken by the Department of Transport and the Department for Infrastructure in Northern Ireland. The Belfast-Dublin line highlights the shared ambition to deliver a decarbonised, modern rail system by 2050. The 32 recommendations are comprehensive. They envision faster trains, new and reopened lines and, ultimately, a tripling of rail journeys. It is essential that all of us here, as public representatives, make sure that no community is left behind.  That brings me to County Louth, which occupies a unique and pivotal position in the conversation around rail investment and connectivity on the island. We are the bridge between Belfast and Dublin and the gateway to the north east. The region has been experiencing enormous demographic change and economic growth and dynamism. Louth is the fastest growing county in Ireland. Drogheda is now the our largest town, with Dundalk a very close second. We will soon eclipse some of the regional cities. Mid-Louth communities like Dunleer are expanding rapidly as well, as is that town's need for housing. Dunleer is close to both Dublin and Belfast, and also close to the economic hubs of Dundalk and Drogheda. The Enterprise service has been increased and is so much of a success that we need more services and more carriages on the line because there is standing room only in the trains.  We have to be very clear when we are implementing this review. We need to make sure the specific needs of Louth's communities are at the forefront. The Department of Transport and Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann need to increase the rolling stock on the Belfast line, strengthen existing demand for train services and make sure there is capacity to deal with a surge in the number of people moving to Louth over the next couple of years. It is also time to make sure we have footprint stations and extra stations in the county. The growth in north Drogheda means there are thousands of new homes and thousands more people in the area. They need to be able to access rail more easily. There is potential to open the line at Dunleer and open a new train station in north Drogheda. We need an extra station in Louth given the growth in the population growth and the importance of the county.  I look forward to working with the Minister of State. I have worked with Irish Rail and raised concerns with it about resourcing and expanding the rail services from Dundalk to Dublin and Dundalk to Belfast. I wish the Minister of State luck in his new role. He has our support in the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Kenny  I congratulate the Minister of State on his appointment. It is good to have someone from the west in this role. I know he has always had a strong commitment to the development of the western rail corridor. It always strikes me that the western rail corridor only extends halfway up the west. We need to bring it the rest of the way. It is clear from the map produced with the proposals in the rail review that there is a massive gap. From north Mayo upwards, there is nothing. We need to ensure that changes. A fundamental change that needs to happen is to open the western rail corridor all the way to Sligo and beyond. It needs to go right up the west coast to ensure we can develop and open up the whole region to meet its potential. The places on our island with the most potential are those that have had the least investment. If they got that investment, they would flourish and rail is key to that happening. We have a lot of work to do in that respect.  The rail review was an all-island review, which was very welcome. It looked at all parts of the entire island. It talked about the need for decarbonisation and developing alternative modes of transport that are less carbon-intensive than those we are currently using. An awful lot of freight is moved by road on trucks. Much of that could be moved on rail. Our public transport services need to be enhanced. Most Deputies from the west, including me, drive up and down to Dublin every day. If I came from Sligo by train, the train home would be long gone by the time I was finished here. That is the problem. The last train leaves at 7 p.m. That need to change. I know Mr. Jim Meade and the people in Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann are working towards greater frequency and better planning in respect of all of that but that will require investment. I hope the Government will see the dividend that would pay. Investment is not spending money but investing it for a return that will have a multiplier effect for the regions in which it is invested and for the economy and ecology of the country. That needs to be made very clear.  In many parts of the country, including Mullingar and Athlone, additional train tracks and more double-tracking are needed. We need greater frequency of train services, which can only be done with investment in double-tracking.  With regard to the key airports, one of the strange things about this island is that our airports do not connect to rail. Shannon Airport has been mentioned by some of our colleagues. Clearly, a rail line to Shannon Airport needs to be a priority but so too does a line to Dublin Airport. The metro line has been baked in the oven for a long time. An awful lot of money has been expended so far but nothing has been built. Alternatives need to be looked at. A DART service to Dublin Airport could be done from the north line. This needs to be done much faster. That is not to say that the metro should not proceed. It certainly should because our capital city needs proper transport infrastructure and an underground put in place.  There is a lot of work to be done. The rail review has put a template in place but it does not go far enough, particularly when we look at the space left vacant in the north west. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I welcome the all-island strategic rail review. It is a vital step towards connecting the unconnected throughout the country. Ultimately, however, it is a missed opportunity because it is not ambitious enough. Even if it were fully implemented, the review would still leave us behind the Ireland of 1906. It is not often that we look back at the country 100 years ago and say, \"Jesus, if we were only there now with all those railway lines and rail services.\" That fact alone is damning.  Fermanagh has been entirely excluded from the review, Donegal is barely included and towns with a population of under 10,000 are ignored. This really limits future growth and opportunity. It is shocking that there is no mention of coastal erosion in this document. We are developing a 25-year plan while ignoring the rising sea. Abandoned lines like Claremorris-Sligo are being left untouched. One of the biggest issues is that the plan has no deadlines, urgency, ambition or accountability. We need a transport system that meets climate targets and serves communities, and we needed it yesterday.  This is not just about having rail in place. It is also about the experience of using it. I have contacted the Minister on this because it is not just about where the train goes but what it is like to be on that train. That is why I am calling for quiet carriages on all intercounty trains. These carriages support our neurodiverse passengers and create a calmer space for people with anxiety, PTSD or sensory issues, and they ensure equal access to public transport for all, which is really important. They also serve commuters, patients, students and remote workers - anyone who needs a bit of quiet space to rest or work in peace. They make travel time more productive, reduce stress and support the flexible workforce. It is a low-cost, simple measure that could be put in place, and is already in place on the Cork-Dublin line, on which it works very well.  When I contacted the Minister, and I am not sure if it was the Minister of State or the line Minister who responded, apparently they are not going to be rolled out across all lines. They are being considered for the Dublin to Belfast route. However, there are no plans to expand quiet carriages beyond that because of capacity concerns. Instead, passengers with sensory issues are being offered a pair of sunglasses, headphones and a fidget spinner. That is not inclusion; that is tokenism. Where we could quite simply roll out these sensory carriages, I ask the Minister to look into it. That is the least commuters deserve.  I will take a moment to talk about my own constituency of Wicklow. It has been raised here already but the train services in Wicklow are beyond bad. We have seen improvements year after year on all the other routes but for some reason, despite Wicklow's increased population and the fact so many people commute, we still have a single line and only six trains going from Wicklow town to the city. It is not acceptable. There have been promises of a battery electric DART to Wicklow town. Previous Ministers said that was going to happen in 2025, but then it was 2026. It is now targeted for 2029. At the same time, carriages that could have been applied to that Wicklow line have been set aside and are going to Drogheda. When that system and those carriages go to Drogheda, it is making an already good line even better. Whereas Wicklow, which has an incredibly poor line with absolutely insufficient rail services, should be brought up to some level of standard. That should have been the priority and not an already well-serviced and functioning line. I ask the Minister to look into that because people need to have proper rail services available to them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I represent Dublin South-Central which is a densely populated area. A huge amount of building is going on, particularly in areas like Bluebell, Inchicore, Ballyfermot, Park West and around that area. Our access to rail is actually quite limited. The Luas goes through it but it is constantly jammed. Bus services are being re-evaluated at the moment in terms of BusConnects and people are quite unhappy about that.  I love that DART+ is going to come out. Kylemore and Ballyfermot are future-proofed but when I did the research, I realised that will be in 2050. I will be 75 years old then. That a long time off. There are many things that need to happen over the next while. It is great that we are future-proofing it, do not get me wrong, but I spent quite a lot of time in Europe where the rail service is excellent, and in a capital city such as Dublin there is no reason for us not to have that here, particularly in Dublin South-Central with so many tourist destinations and people coming to visit. It is really important.  We also have a climate crisis at the moment. We really need to make sure that our rail services reach every part of our city thereby removing people from their reliance on the car. For such a short distance coming into the city, Dublin South-Central really should be very reliant on rail, bus and other active travel methods. It is great that there are going to be expansions but I would love the NTA and Irish Rail to make sure Dublin South-Central is not forgotten when it comes to the rail service. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  There have been some exciting developments in east Cork rail over the past 16 years. The return of the Midleton to Cork line in 2009 has been hugely progressive for the region and the number of passengers is increasing year on year. Ten-minute frequencies from 2026 onwards will be a game changer as will the proposed new stations for Water Rock and Carrigtwohill west. Cobh, Carrigtwohill, Glounthaune and Midleton are all very well connected with the city by rail. However, Youghal has been totally left out of these advancements and is suffering in several key respects as a result. The quality of life of students and workers travelling to Cork city on what is a primitive bus service through congested roads is severely impacted by the lack of a train service. We are not seeing the density of new housing development and associated population growth in Youghal, which would occur around a functioning train station. Our increasing population demands the return of the rail link. Despite the epic investment into Dunkettle interchange, journey times into Cork from Youghal and Midleton remain unpredictable in duration and are prone to significant delays. Some \u20ac215 million later we are probably seeing reduced traffic flow at peak times coming into the Dunkettle interchange.  We have a crisis of traffic congestion on our roads in east Cork that is eroding away precious family time every day for people caught up in it. There is such a sense of futility about this. Our car dependency means our carbon emissions are increasing, our air pollution is worsening and it is also leading to more accidents and more fatalities.  Returning the Youghal to Midleton line would be a challenging project in light of the greenway development. However, we have reopened closed lines before and we can do it again. The Limerick-Foynes line is already being reinstated. Let us bring this ambition to Youghal. When this service is eventually linked up with light rail in the city it will be transformative for the region. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Connolly  I welcome the outcome of the rail review study. I particularly welcome the outcome as it pertains to the recommendations it makes for my own constituency and for the west in general, especially the doubling of the rail track to Athenry and the proposed reopening of the western rail corridor. I know the Minister is familiar with this. However, I go back to the publication of the national planning framework about a month or six weeks ago. In the national planning framework for each of the regional cities of Cork, Limerick and Waterford and Galway, a number of key enablers were outlined as to how these cities can be developed and what infrastructural projects will be required for these cities to develop. For Limerick, Cork and Waterford, the key enablers all included some reference to rail transport or rail projects. However, there was no reference in the national planning framework to reopening the western rail corridor or to doubling the rail track between Galway and Athenry as part of the key enablers for Galway city. That was regrettable given the strong sense that came from this review of the all-island strategic rail review to include both projects into the future. Other Deputies mentioned their own constituencies but when Galway and Cork are compared, Cork has a double track to Mallow and a double track to Cobh. In Limerick work has started on progressing the double track between Limerick and Limerick Junction. Yet, I do not see the same intent arising from this report.  I put down a number of parliamentary questions as to how we are going to move from this report towards the implementation of both of those objectives in terms of doubling the track to Athenry and reopening the western rail corridor and I am finding it difficult to see real intent and to be able to say purposely and specifically that this project is going to progress. As I said at the time of the publication of the national rail review, I hope the national development plan reviews it in terms of rail infrastructure for Galway and clearly highlights that both the doubling of the track to Athenry and the western rail corridor are part of the national development plan.  It was mentioned earlier in the D\u00e1il today and it is worth reminding ourselves of the recent cost of congestion report in Galway city which showed that the cost of congestion in Galway city is going to double between now and 2030 and is going to reach a level of \u20ac107 million. Clearly, that report is saying we need to do more in terms of infrastructural development to tackle congestion in Galway city. The two moves included in this report will go some way towards reducing the congestion in Galway city and reducing the cost associated with that.  There are just one or two operational matters regarding rail services in the city I want to draw people's attention to as well. There is a very positive project at the moment in terms of the redevelopment of Ceannt Station. However, Ceannt Station will now have five platforms, yet we will only have a single track into the station. It is going to be very difficult to make the most of the redevelopment of Ceannt Station without doubling the rail track to Athenry. That should be borne in mind.  I recognise and welcome that there is the project to develop a second platform in Oranmore and a passing loop. It is a start but I would like to see greater intent as to how we are going to progress the recommendations in this study as they relate to Galway and rail infrastructure in Galway.  One other operational matter I will mention is that I understand that Galway County Council is soon to progress the enhancement of the carpark at the Oranmore railway station which will make it more amenable for people who want to use the station there to park and ride between Oranmore and Galway city.  I ask Irish Rail to look specifically at the car park in Athenry and to do something similar there. It should be opened up for the public to use. We should reduce the cost of using it and increase the flow of people using rail services from Athenry in Galway. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan  I am sitting here kind of amused though I probably should not be. There is obviously a regional disparity in the investment in rail services. I listened to the contributions of the Social Democrats and there is obviously a Cork bias because the Cork representatives, even within my own party, seem reasonably happy with the level of investment we are receiving. Things in the west are starkly different from what is happening in Cork, where it is predominantly a good news story. We are getting massive investment not just in heavy rail but also in the light rail system for the future. There is much to be hopeful about. Speaking strictly geographically and with a geographical bias, it is clear that in Cork anywhere up to 11 new stations are planned. I am being told that at least three, if not four, of those can be delivered by the end of this decade. That will predominantly benefit my constituency. We are looking at the possibility of an additional station at Tivoli. There will definitely be additional stations at Dunkettle and Blackpool and there will possibly be another at Blarney. That is without mentioning the stations that Deputy Quaide referred to in east Cork. For us, that allows travel every 15 minutes. We also benefit from the double-tracking to which Deputy John Connolly alluded. To be fair, it has been transformative for people on the eastern line, in particular, where I am living in the Little Island area.  In conjunction with that, we are also looking at the additional park-and-ride facility. At the new Dunkettle station, in an area called North Esk, there is due to be a park-and-ride facility. We have spoken about that facility for 20 bloody years at this stage but I am hoping that the National Transport Authority, NTA, will finally give Irish Rail the funding to deliver it and to alleviate some of the traffic problems Deputy Quaide spoke about, particularly at the interchange.  A bugbear of mine is that even though we talk about the increased frequency from which we are all going to benefit, lazy people, such as me, still opt for the car. It is partially out of laziness, and I hold my hands up in that regard, but the timetable can be very rigid. I hope when we have the full benefit of electric lines and double-tracking that we will be able to move having a train later at night. We are talking about the late-night economy in Cork city centre, in particular, but to facilitate that, we will have to put on extra buses through BusConnects and extra trains on the newly developed electric lines. That needs to be scrutinised.  I know that light rail is not exclusively covered under this plan, but we have a problem in Cork that is similar to the problem in Dublin. There is talk of bringing the metro to Dublin Airport. People might consider the heavy rail option of connecting Clongriffin station to the airport in Dublin. That could be achieved in a relatively quick time compared to the plan for the metro. The situation is similar in Cork. We have no plans to connect light or heavy rail to the airport. It is about providing connectivity and giving people the option. That needs to be reflected in the review. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I thank the Deputy and very much welcome this debate. As my colleague, Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan, has set out, a major plan, the Cork metropolitan area plan, has been set out and was published on 18 June. Public consultation is currently taking place and it is important that people engage. We are not just planning for the next five or ten years but for the next 50 or 60 years. One of the things that will happen in Cork is a growth of population. The most recent census reported that Cork had a population of 581,000. It is now well over 600,000 and will continue to grow because of the growth of jobs in the area. It is interesting that Apple is going to increase its workforce by over 1,500 people. The company is now running a bus service from the train station in Cork because many of its workers live outside Cork city and use the train service to get to work. Apple runs buses from the train station to those workers' place to employment. We must work with businesses to ensure that more people who are working in the city or in the outskirts of the city can get access not only to the train service but to the follow-up bus service without having to use motor vehicles.  My colleague has set out the development in Cork, including the Cork to Mallow rail line and the stations that can be built along the line. That opens up the opportunity for a greater number of housing developments and a higher level of employment in those areas. It is important that people are able to travel from Charleville and Mallow into Cork city, but also on down to Midleton or Cobh, wherever they may be working. We need to fast-track all of these proposals. The metropolitan plan prepared by Cork City Council, Cork County Council, Irish Rail, the NTA, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, and Project Ireland shows that everyone is working together to deliver a really good transport infrastructure. That will, as a result, reduce the number of people who have to travel to and from their places of work, or wherever else they are travelling, because they have access to public transport and rail transport, in particular.  It is important that the light rail proposed for Cork does not take 15 to 20 years. It is important that we fast-track that project. The population of Dublin is now well over 1.3 million. In 1841, Cork had a population of over 854,000. We are currently at 600,000, but that shows the potential for growing the number of jobs and businesses in Cork. At the same time, we must ensure that we build adequate housing and allow people to travel from their homes to the services they require and their places of work. I welcome the debate and the forward planning that is now in place in the Cork region. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in  We must do far better for the people of Wicklow and Wexford. For years, I have raised the issue of the inadequate rail network in these counties, including most recently last week at a meeting in Buswells Hotel with representatives of Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann. My hopes were briefly lifted with the all-Ireland strategic rail review when the Wicklow and Wexford rail line was mentioned. However, unfortunately, this optimism was very short lived. The report suggests that solutions for this vital region on the east coast and in the south east would be \"costly and ... unlikely to be justifiable\". According to the review, the rail line could not be expected to have more than one or two trains per hour in each direction. How can we accept such a conclusion when over 4,000 people are crossing the Wexford-Wicklow border on their commute every morning?  In the region that contains Carlow and Kilkenny, 46% of students and 69% of workers commute to Dublin. These are real people. They are workers, students and families who struggle through gridlock every morning and evening. They rely on a transportation system that fails to meet their needs. Only 11% of them are using public transport, including coastal rail and bus services. A staggering 70% are forced to use their cars. Is this the future we want for our communities and for the island of Ireland?  In 2021, it was reported that we need to reduce car journeys by half a million per day under the Government's climate action plan. In 2019, Irish Rail announced 41 new carriages but not one for the Wexford-Wicklow area. If you live in Gorey, there are only six services per day and the latest leaving Dublin for Wexford is just after 6.30 p.m. There are trains from Arklow at 6.03 a.m. and 6.57 a.m. They are full by the time they reach Wicklow town. We wonder why only 11% of people use this service and we have gridlock on the M11 every day. I experienced it this morning.  If we are serious about reducing car dependency and protecting the environment, we need to commit to investing in the rail network. Wicklow and Wexford are beautiful counties that hold immense potential. They connect the capital to the gateway to Europe, which is Rosslare Europort. The port is currently expanding due to the evolving trade arrangements between Ireland, the UK and the EU. The two counties have a population of over 300,000.  We are at a pivotal moment. This is our chance to transform the role of rail along the beautiful east coast of Ireland. Enhanced rail connectivity would not only improve people's quality of life because they are not fighting traffic gridlock every morning but would also boost tourism and benefit the environment. The time to act on the Wicklow-Wexford rail line is now. Let us invest in the Dublin to Rosslare rail line and leave a legacy for future generations. I will leave the Minister of State to ponder those points. I hope he can have an input. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  A map of Ireland's railway network in 1906 that is often shared online provokes passionate debates about the state of our current rail network. We used to have 5,000 km of railway and more than 1,000 stations connecting all corners of the island. Today, the network is just a fraction of what it was at its peak. These debates show one thing very clearly: people want to see increased investment, increased capacity, the reopening of stations and the return of rail to every corner of our country. For the first time, we now have an all-island strategic plan agreed North and South for the development of rail on this island over the coming decade. It is a realistic and costed plan, and offers a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reshape how we move people and goods around our island.  Bold ideas, though, have to be backed by bold action and guaranteed capital investment. The public deserve clear answers. When will the Government publish a detailed, phased implementation plan for the all-island strategic rail review so we can track progress and hold people to account concerning what they said they will do? What projects are first in line? When will construction begin? Given the scale of investment, which is estimated at \u20ac35 billion up to 2050, how much will be committed via the review of the national development plan due to be published this month? Delays would not only threaten our climate targets but also the economic and social gains this plan offers. I therefore urge the Minister of State to commit to publishing the full implementation plan and to publish it without delay. I also urge him to redouble his efforts to secure the necessary capital funding in the NDP review. Without this money, this vision of the all-island strategic plan will never be more than a pretty graphic. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  The year 2024 was the hottest on record. Temperatures were 1.6\u00b0 above the historical average. Europe is now in the grip of another heatwave. In France, 300 people have been hospitalised, and two people have already died from the heat. They will not, unfortunately, be the last to die this summer across Europe. We urgently need to stop pumping more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Fossil fuels must be completely phased out as fast as possible. This is what the science demands. We know transport is our second biggest emitting sector, contributing 21.5% of total emissions in 2023. The EPA predicts this will increase to 21.6% by 2030 with the existing measures. It is doubtful, however, that the target for those existing measures will even be reached. It is based on getting 560,000 electric vehicles on the roads by 2030, when there are currently around 73,000 such vehicles. Between 1990 and 2021, passenger car numbers increased by 178% and transport emissions more than doubled.  To reverse this situation, what is needed is a massive modal shift away from car dependency, whether fossil-fuelled or electric, to public transport and active travel. In light of this, the target in the review to increase the tiny 3% share of rail in passenger journeys to a slightly less tiny 6% is unambitious. Yet, this Government is unlikely to come close to this target. This Government is allergic to public investment on the scale needed to provide fast, free and frequent public transport for all. It continues to force more and more people into long, car-dependent commutes because this is the only way they can find semi-affordable housing. It is greenlighting and subsidising new domestic flights to Derry rather than building the railways we need. The programme for Government promises to act on the recommendations from the all-island strategic rail review. Which of the recommendations will actually be implemented within the lifetime of this Government? What share of rail in passenger journeys will result? When will we see new railway lines like metro south west? At the very least, will we see simple, obvious things done by 2029, including new train stations on existing lines in Ballyfermot and Cabra and more trams on the red line?  Another way of encouraging a modal shift to public transport is reducing fares. These were cut by 20% in 2022 as a temporary cost-of-living measure and then kept, just like student fees. In light of the Government saying we will not have another cost-of-living package, is it also saying transport fees are going to increase, just as is threatened in terms of student fees? Can the Minister of State give a guarantee that public transport fees will not be increased in the coming budget? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  There are many rail issues in Dublin West. I will briefly mention them and then make some general points. In Ashtown, there is just development after development and high-rise apartments flying up regularly. It is happening at such a rate that the rail service the area does have is jam-packed and dangerous, according to many residents. Either a stop will have to be put on planning permissions granted, which none of us wants because we all know there is a housing crisis, or the transport issues will have to be addressed. There are also many issues further out in the Dublin 15 end of Dublin West. There are no lifts and no disability access in Castleknock train station. This is not acceptable in this day and age. Regarding seating in the Navan Road Parkway station, it has been pointed out by several workers that pregnant women have nowhere to sit.  On the Dublin West and Dublin 15 area more generally, we frequently hear TDs from rural areas talking about people in Dublin having a train or a bus outside their doors. There is no such thing. Huge chunks of Dublin 15 are badly served by public transport. Most of Dublin West is reliant on buses. The 39 bus is known as the \"coffin ship into town\" because every time there is a new development, it is just added on to the 39 bus route, rather than a new bus route being created. It takes one student trying to get to UCD from Ongar three hours to get in at peak time. You could get to Greece in three hours. Turning to ghost buses, I refer to the 37 bus, the Go-Ahead Ireland buses in Tyrrelstown and disappearing bus stops for people in the area. Workers who work in St. Vincent's Hospital and UCD had their journeys significantly added to by changes made by Irish Rail last year. It has meant their journey times to work were severely added to.  We need a Luas. We need a light rail system in Blanchardstown. It is just so obvious. We have every multinational out there and a massive number of workers. The Broombridge station is nearby. We need that extended from Broombridge to Blanchardstown. It is quite a greenfield site at the moment and it could and should have been provided. We have had Taoisigh and Ministers, but none of them have ever provided Dublin West with the transport system we need. We now have to say, \"Enough\". The misery of people's lives now trying to get into town or across the city in built-up urban areas of Dublin is outrageous. This is especially the case at a time when we want people to use public transport because of climate change and just a better quality of life. We are actually making it impossible for people. It must be addressed. It is so obvious we must invest in public transport in large, extremely built-up urban areas. Essential workers cannot get to their place of work and students cannot get to college. The situation is really eroding people's quality of life. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James O'Connor  I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, Deputy John McGuinness, for allowing me some of his time. I wish to speak on this issue because Cork East is receiving the largest single investment in an active rail project anywhere in the country now, with a \u20ac1.6 billion investment into the Cork area metropolitan transport strategy. I note Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan from Cork North-Central is in the Chair. Both our constituencies are beneficiaries of this investment. The project is advancing at a rapid pace. I was lucky enough to be down on the site more recently with the appointed contractor and Irish Rail's project manager, A.J. Cronin. Phenomenal work is being done and I commend it.  It would be remiss of me not to bring up the restoration of the railway line further east towards Youghal and the restoration of the train stations at Killeagh and Mogeely. It goes without saying that a state-of-the-art greenway investment has been put in place costing a very significant amount of money - shy of \u20ac20 million. It is heavily utilised and has been quite successful but members of the public constantly raise this with me as a TD representing east Cork. I feel obliged to tell the House that I have done some research into what the cost of restoring that railway line would be. I am told by the appointed contractor of the Cork area commuter rail programme rail improvement scheme, involving double tracking to Midleton, that it would cost around \u20ac300 million. It is important to put on the record of the House that the cost of restoring the line and having a fully equipped electrified rail connection back to Youghal would probably come in at around that amount, which is a very substantial sum of money for the catchment area of east Cork that I represent. Ultimately, this should happen but in consideration of the fact that the greenway is in place, assessing the economic success of that greenway and the impact it has on the tourist economy in Youghal. I want to add my own two cents to the argument because I am a believer in investing more in public transport, especially when we are expecting a significant increase in the population in east Cork with the development of residential housing at Water-rock, and the further expansion of housing stock in the Carrigtwohill-Glounthaune area. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  Like most Members of the House, I met with Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann recently when it gave a presentation and made its officials available to Members to put their case and highlight the issues in their constituencies. I will get directly to the point. The south east, particularly Carlow and Kilkenny, has very poor connections. Regardless of whether one is en route from those locations to Dublin or down to Waterford, not enough times are available. I can get to the Oireachtas at one time but I cannot get home at the time when we might conclude. That is very unreasonable in terms of what we are trying to achieve in the economy and the challenges we face regarding climate action. That people cannot get trains at the appropriate times to suit them is also unfair to those who work in Dublin or along the route of the train service. If we are going to change as a country, there is an opportunity for us to introduce a dynamic rail structure to accommodate the communities that are anxious to use the train rather than the car, and to allow those who do not have a car to commute properly and efficiently to a job, school or college. We have to think of those who are studying or working in Dublin and need that transport timetable to meet their needs.  I wish to raise another issue relating to infrastructure, namely, the fact that the railway stations in Kilkenny and Thomastown need investment. The property held by Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann in Kilkenny city is in a disgraceful condition. People, including tourists, arrive there on the train and see nothing but a derelict building with an asbestos roof, a building that is falling down and a very poorly maintained station. I ask the Minister of State to intervene with Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann and ask it to upgrade the station buildings that are lying derelict. I would like the Minister of State to ask Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann to bring them up to a standard that will meet that of the neighbouring properties such as MacDonagh Junction or the hotel that will be built there. It is not right that a company like Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann would not invest in its property and try to keep the image of the city in which it is located to the standards to which we are accustomed.  I ask the Minister of State to tell Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann to approach the problem at O'Loughlin Road railway bridge and deal with the wall for which it is responsible. It is creating a problem for those who are driving or walking the footpaths. It has gone on for decades. Engineers have visited while the Minister has been down there as well. Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann must take the first step to provide the safety that is required. I am asking the Minister of State to intervene and demand of Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann the action that is required to make that part of O'Loughlin Road railway bridge safe and to provide us with the times to facilitate those who wish to travel on public transport to and from Dublin or the locations along the route. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"All-Island Strategic Rail Review: Statements (Resumed)"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"Middle East: Statements","counts":{"speechCount":36,"speakerCount":31},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Denise Mitchell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pat Buckley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Simon Harris)  I welcome this opportunity to set out the Government position on the situation in the Middle East. The region is experiencing a period of significant jeopardy and instability with multiple crises playing out, many of which are interrelated and all of which threaten further escalation, further destruction and further devastating loss of civilian lives.  I will turn first to the appalling and deteriorating situation in Gaza, where we continue to witness the unending horrors of a brutal onslaught - a clear genocide. More than 56,000 people are reported killed and over 132,000 injured. Behind these stark numbers are scenes of almost unimaginable suffering, both physical and psychological. In the first instance, let me recall Ireland\u2019s position, which has been considered, consistent and compassionate. We have stayed true to our values of upholding human rights and international law even when it has sometimes been a lonely place to take leadership positions, which have subsequently belatedly gathered consensus.  We have strongly condemned and continue to strongly condemn the continuing Israeli activity in Gaza and we have called it out for the genocidal activity that it is. We strongly urge the Israeli authorities to call a halt to these military operations. We need an urgent end to hostilities. I unequivocally condemn the terror attacks by Hamas in Israel on 7 October 2023. I unequivocally condemn the unconscionable taking of hostages by Hamas and have repeatedly called for their release. I repeat that call here today. Hamas has brought nothing but death and destruction to Palestinians and Israelis. I urge all involved to support and engage in the efforts that are under way to reach agreement on a new ceasefire and hostage release agreement. Today, I met with the Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Qatar, which is one of the key interlocutors in terms of trying to bring about a ceasefire. I now believe based on that conversation that there is a real window of opportunity to get a ceasefire, to get humanitarian aid flowing and to get the hostages released and people need to seize this opportunity. Let us take this window of opportunity and let us see an end to the unimaginable suffering. I also reiterate that the Israeli response in Gaza is a despicable and clear breach of international law.  The current volume and pace of aid deliveries into Gaza under Israel\u2019s so-called partial easing of its blockade remains critically insufficient and is an affront to any accepted understanding of the operation of humanitarian aid. It is a drop in the ocean compared to the vast and urgent needs of Gaza\u2019s entire population for food, water, medicines, shelter and fuel - the very basic items necessary for daily life and items denied to the civilian population by Israeli restrictions. The assessment by the IPC global hunger monitor in May found that the entire population of Gaza was facing high levels of food insecurity with half a million people facing starvation. We are now in July. Two months have passed without adequate action. The humanitarian situation remains catastrophic. The Qatari Prime Minister and I were remarking today that no matter how unimaginably horrific the situation appears to be through what we see in the media, it can only be much worse on the ground, if that is possible to comprehend. We continue to see mass casualty incidents at distribution centres run by private contractors under the new Israeli-approved model of aid delivery. This model has rightly been described by the head of UNRWA as \u201ca death trap\u201d. Food distribution has been chaotic and has resulted in multiple violent incidents and people have been killed while queuing for food. Over 400 people have been killed and over 3,000 have been injured.  I join the UN Secretary General\u2019s condemnation of this situation and call for accountability. Perpetrators must be held accountable. These are people who shoot others dead while they queue for food for themselves and their starving children. We must be clear. Life-saving aid must never be weaponised. Humanitarian principles must be followed. Hospitals must never be militarised or targeted. On 5 June, the World Health Organization warned that the denial of aid and restricted access had systematically dismantled the health system in Gaza. This, also, is unacceptable.  At every possible opportunity, Ireland has called on Israel to allow unimpeded access of humanitarian aid at scale into and throughout Gaza. The announcement last week by Prime Minister Netanyahu that he had ordered that all humanitarian aid once again be halted from entering the Gaza Strip was more than deeply concerning. It was disgusting, despicable and illegal. It was yet another example of the weaponisation of aid.  I again implore Israel to facilitate the UN and humanitarian partners to deliver aid in accordance with international law and humanitarian principles. Time and again, UNRWA and other UN agencies have demonstrated their capabilities as humanitarian responders. This is the most sickening thing - we know how to get the aid into Gaza. It could happen today if UN agencies were allowed to do their job. We recall most recently, during the January to March ceasefire, how they were quickly able to feed and provide aid for more than 2 million people. Ireland has provided over \u20ac88 million in support for the people of Palestine since January 2023, of which more than \u20ac75 million has been provided since October 2023. This includes \u20ac58 million for UNRWA. At the EU level, I continue to advocate for our partners to increase their support to UNRWA, and I welcome the EU\u2019s payment of \u20ac52 million to UNRWA last month.  In June, we saw some progress on issues where Ireland had been at the forefront. I welcome that the review of Israel\u2019s compliance with its obligations under Article 2 of the EU-Israel association agreement has been finalised. Ireland and Spain first called for this step in February 2024. I have always been clear that any such review can only reach one conclusion, namely, that Israel is in breach of its obligations under that agreement. This is a significant finding. Now that it is there, it cannot be reversed. That finding exists. It is a finding of fact. The High Representative has said she will communicate this clearly to Israel. I have also been clear with my EU counterparts that we now need to see options for follow-up actions. A country cannot breach an association agreement with the EU and it be consequence free. The EU\u2019s credibility depends on what it does next.  While the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza is rightly at the forefront of our minds, it is important not to forget or gloss over the extremely worrying developments in the West Bank. Since January, Israel\u2019s military operations have displaced at least 40,000 people and caused widespread destruction of civilian infrastructure and homes. Refugee camps in Tulkarm, Nur Shams and Jenin have been rendered uninhabitable. The scale, speed and severity of displacement is unprecedented. This is in addition to a rising trend of settlement expansion and settler violence prior to 7 October, conducted within an environment of impunity.  The West Bank Protection Consortium, a coalition of humanitarian organisations and international donors, now estimates that 58,000 Palestinians across 195 communities it monitors are at direct risk of forcible displacement. We are all alarmed by the recent announcement of the approval of a further 22 new settlements in the West Bank, an action openly described by the Israeli defence minister as \u201ca strategic move that prevents the establishment of a Palestinian state\u201d. The implications of this are clear for all to see. The UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process has warned that if this trajectory is not reversed, it will make the two-state solution physically impossible. In her words, the two-state solution is on life support. We call on Israel to immediately halt these activities, and we continue to press the EU to urgently take forward further sanctions on violent settlers.  A shared priority with both our European and regional partners at this time is the UN High-Level International Conference for the Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine and the Implementation of the Two-State Solution. Regrettably, the conference has been postponed as a result of developments in the region. It is important that the rescheduled conference go ahead when conditions allow. I have discussed this with my Saudi and French counterparts, who are co-chairing this initiative.  Ireland will continue to use every lever at our disposal - political, diplomatic and legal - in our response to this situation. We are delivering on the commitment in the programme for Government to progress legislation prohibiting import of goods from the settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories following the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice of 19 July 2024. As members of the House are aware, the Government approved the general scheme of that Bill last week. I have referred the general scheme to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade for pre-legislative scrutiny, which has commenced this week. I note the presence of the Chair of that committee, Deputy Lahart. I look forward to hearing the deliberations of the committee when it has completed its work. I know it is endeavouring to do so in a time-efficient manner and I am eager to work with the committee.  I have been honest about this from the start, but we must continue to press for EU action in parallel with this. It is disappointing, although that is too weak a word, to note that, over a week since we published our Bill, we are yet to see any other member state do likewise. I reiterate my call across parties for all of us to use our political contacts in other member states to see if other countries would consider doing what Ireland is doing. Ireland believes it is possible for member states to move forward on this as a result of the ICJ advisory opinion. If we want to maximise the leverage to bring about the conditions for a ceasefire, it would be extremely helpful if other member states also produced legislation.  Last week, I joined nine other EU foreign ministers in asking the High Representative to call for the EU to undertake a detailed review of its own compliance with the advisory opinion of the ICJ. I am pleased that this review will now be taken forward and that the High Representative will seek legal advice. The European Union must make sure it is in compliance with the International Court of Justice. I will follow this closely and will call for concrete proposals for action for member states to discuss.  Much attention and activity in recent weeks has been expended on the conflict between Iran and Israel. This was a highly dangerous situation, in which two major powers in the region directly attacked each other, in which nuclear facilities were directly attacked, as well as cities and infrastructure, and in which there was a great risk of other states in the region being drawn in. Our most urgent focus in Ireland and the wider EU was in seeking de-escalation and a step back from the brink, urging a return to dialogue and diplomacy to solve these issues, and also in trying to assist our own personnel and citizens caught up in the situation. I want to thank our diplomats in the region and other EU states that helped us in assisting our citizens at that time.  I discussed the situation with my EU colleagues at an emergency virtual Foreign Affairs Council on 17 June and attended in person a meeting of the regular Foreign Affairs Council on 23 June. I had bilateral calls with my counterparts in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE. I also spoke with the deputy foreign minister of Iran, where I made the same points.  Our missions in Tel Aviv, Ramallah and Tehran were in close contact with Irish citizens to offer consular support and assistance in difficult circumstances where airspace was closed. My Department assisted 24 Irish citizens and dependants to leave Israel and Iran by overland routes. Our teams in the region stayed in close contact with those who remained in place and continue to provide support and assistance. In view of the security situation, I took the decision to temporarily relocate diplomatic personnel from our embassy in Tehran. The embassy to Iran is now based temporarily in the Department of foreign affairs here in Dublin.  I very much welcomed the ceasefire agreed last week. It is fragile but seems to be holding. We remain clear that only a negotiated diplomatic solution can properly resolve the many concerns around Iran\u2019s nuclear programme. However, we must also recognise reality. Iran\u2019s threats against Israel are unacceptable. So is its support for militant armed groups around the region, such as Hezbollah and the Houthis. Many states in Europe have experienced security issues with Iran\u2019s activity on their territory and with Iran\u2019s long sustaining of the brutal Assad regime and its supply of weapons to Russia for use in its illegal war in Ukraine.  A great many states were alarmed at Iran\u2019s apparent efforts to, at the very least, put itself in a position where it could acquire nuclear weapons. Ireland shares these concerns about Iranian policies more generally and its nuclear programme in particular. Put simply, there are aspects of the Iranian nuclear programme that are inexplicable in terms of civilian nuclear power. However, we believe strongly in negotiation to resolve these issues. This had succeeded in the 2015 JCPOA agreement with Iran, which offered an agreed path to addressing Iran\u2019s nuclear programme. Regrettably, that agreement was undermined before it was able to achieve its full objectives.  As we know, there were nuclear talks between Iran and the US, which were still ongoing when Israel decided to attack Iran. We were not privy to those talks or to the positions either side was advancing. Perhaps they could have succeeded, perhaps not, but the idea that there were talks going on that were then disrupted and ultimately ended by Israel\u2019s attack on Iran was extraordinarily escalatory and unhelpful.  We must recall that the JCPOA was achieved by international sanctions after many years when progress was not achieved at all. It is my hope that the ceasefire now in place will continue to hold. The effect of military action may have been to set back Iran\u2019s programme. I urge all involved to now return to diplomacy. There are some indications that the US and Iran may return to talks.  The EU can make a positive contribution through the work of the High Representative and France, Germany and the UK. It is important that we keep all channels open to Iran and encourage a return to diplomacy.  It is important for Iran to maintain co-operation with the IAEA, and I greatly regret its decision today to move further away from that. The IAEA has an extraordinarily important role to play.  I said earlier that only a diplomatic solution can properly resolve this issue, and this is even clearer after military action has taken place. I believe a diplomatic solution is not only necessary, but is entirely possible. The possibility for a peaceful solution rests largely with the choices Iran now makes. It must turn away from seeking its own security through the intimidation and destabilisation of its neighbours and the threat of a nuclear weapon. If it does so, I believe it will find a ready response regionally and internationally. Above all, we need to see a reassertion of international law and the peaceful resolution of disputes between states. Attacks on nuclear facilities are deeply concerning and extraordinarily dangerous and should always be avoided.  In the time available, I would like to mention two further issues, namely, Lebanon and Syria. Our connection and commitment to Lebanon remains strong. Lebanon faces many serious difficulties, but it has made much progress in the last year in electing a new president and government. The weakening of Hezbollah may make it possible for Lebanon to gain full control of its territory, including in the south. This is crucial for the long-term security of Lebanon, Israel and the region. I urge all involved to work towards this and to refrain from actions that undermine this, including continuing actions by Hezbollah and Israel. I hope also that it will become possible for Israel to withdraw its remaining presence from Lebanon and for displaced communities to return to their homes in security on both sides of the border. UNIFIL has been central to our commitment to Lebanon, and we strongly believe that the force plays a valuable role. I was able to see at first hand the important contribution of the men and women of the Defence Forces serving in UNIFIL when I visited Lebanon in March. In my meeting with my Lebanese counterparts, they impressed on me the important role of UNIFIL in supporting the Lebanese armed forces, but also in implementing the ceasefire agreement. Discussions are now ongoing at the UN about the renewal of the UNIFIL mandate. Ireland will use its voice to support an outcome that supports the Government and people of Lebanon and ensures the safety of our peacekeepers.  Syria has tentatively emerged from a terrible civil war and brutal regime. Its new Government faces many questions and challenges, but broadly speaking we can say it is trying to construct a new Syria, a Syria that must be more open and inclusive, in which the human rights of all Syrians, regardless of their faith or ethnicity, are upheld and the rights of Syrian women are protected. The new Government is trying to do that in the context where many of the armed groups that emerged during the war are still in existence, including remnants of the former regime and violent fanatics. Ireland supported the EU's speedy removal of most economic sanctions on Syria and we wish to work positively with the new Syrian authorities to give them every chance to succeed because the people of Syria deserve that chance.  Finally, although recent events have commanded our attention, it is important that this is not the sum of Ireland's engagement with the Middle East. Much of it is more positive. Our Government adopted a strategy for Ireland's engagement across the Middle East and North Africa in October 2024, focusing our developments on bilateral links, economic relations and people-to-people contacts. We enjoy good relations with Middle Eastern partners and many Irish people have gone to live and work there, notably in the Gulf. We operate joint economic committees with Saudi Arabia and agreed this year to the establishment of that process for the United Arab Emirates. Large numbers of students from the region study in Ireland, many of them on scholarships from their governments. There are regular political visits in both directions.  Earlier today, I met the Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Qatar, who yesterday collected on behalf of the Emir the Tipperary Peace Prize, recognising Qatar's long role as a mediator. It was a welcome engagement as Qatar is one of the lead negotiators behind the potential 60-day ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. While the situation remains extremely volatile, I very much hope we have now reached a point where the killing can stop and both sides can negotiate a meaningful and lasting ceasefire.  In my conversation with the Prime Minister of Qatar today, it was clear that there is some cautious optimism that a ceasefire may now be possible and we must seize this window of opportunity. We have to do so if there is a window of opportunity for the cessation of violence, an end to the genocidal activity, the release of hostages and a surge in unimpeded humanitarian aid. In the hours and days ahead, there will be a renewed effort to bring about that. I thank my Qatari counterpart for the engagement and update today and wish that process and talks well. I thank Qatar and others in the region who are playing an important role in that regard.  Today I met the president of the International Criminal Court, ICC. It is an international court that is under active attack. In this House, we must speak up and speak out for the work of the ICC. We are continuing to provide financial assistance, but the world needs international courts now more than ever. The sanctions the US has put in place against individual judges and the arrest warrants that Russia has put in place are deeply regrettable and seek to undermine the work of the ICC. I want to be very clear on the record of the House that the Government of Ireland and Ireland stands firmly in support of the ICC. I intend to raise this matter with European counterparts in terms of how we can do more to support an international court system that is clearly being threatened by efforts to undermine its work.  I thank the Members of the House for the continued focus we keep on issues in the Middle East. I look forward to working with Members to pass our occupied Palestinian territories Bill. I ask that we continue to work with all our contacts through our political groupings at a European level to seek to maximise the leverage that Europe can bring about in terms of playing a positive role in ending the violence, killings and genocide in Gaza and that we stand ready as a country to do all we can to help the people of Palestine create the state they desperately deserve and have every right to in order to enable Palestine and Israel to live safely and securely side-by-side. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Like most political representatives, one of the first things I do when I get up in the morning is to check the news headlines. It is a grim reality that on any given day for the past year and a half it is almost a certainty that we will wake up to fresh horrors from Gaza and Palestine. One could nearly set one's watch by it, it is that deplorably consistent in terms of the horrors we are seeing. Even today, I read that 40 have been killed overnight in Gaza.  The relentless nature of the conflict is almost without precedent in the past 20 or 30 years. It is very difficult to think of anything comparable. There has been slaughter upon slaughter. In the past few days, children have been killed simply for collecting aid for their families. I do not know how people manage to live their lives against this backdrop, and manage to do the basic things that any family would need to do on any given day in terms of collecting food, making sure there is water and looking after somebody who is sick amid the chaos, rubble, carnage, slaughter and risk of death on a daily basis.  I have put on the record in the past, and will do so again, my revulsion at the events of 7 October and the killing of innocent people. I deplore the taking of hostages and they need to be released. However, what has happened since then, in terms of proportionality, is that we are witnessing a genocide. I welcome the fact the Government has begun to use that language. It is strong language and should not be used lightly, but as it is absolutely valid in this instance. It is important that the people in Palestine and the Israeli Government hears western governments using such language. Israel needs to understand that it is completely beyond the Pale. Breaking international law does not even begin to cover it. It is breaking every kind of moral compass that one can imagine. That is the situation we are in.  One of the primary issues is the weaponisation and deprivation of aid. There is plenty of food and medical care surrounding the Gaza Strip at this moment in time, but it is prevented from entering Gaza by a government that is determined to use food and aid as a weapon of war against a defenceless civilian population. There is a difference between what happened under the aegis of UNRWA and the sort of puppet organisation that is currently providing aid, the chaos that ensues and the targeting of civilians on the back of that. Historically, by any legal or international standard aid should be beyond and above the fray, but that does not seem to be the case this moment in time.  It is vitally important that the Government and other western governments continue to raise their voices. There are developments at this moment in time. It is important the Government is vocal on the two-state solution conference that is forthcoming. There is a proposal for a reconstruction conference hosted by Egypt. Reconstruction is a long way from where we are at the moment. We all hope for a ceasefire.  I know there is some talk about that at this moment but, as ever, things develop at the rate of hours and hope on the horizon can, unfortunately, be quickly extinguished. We hope for a ceasefire but it is important that we not simply frame what is happening in Gaza in the context of a humanitarian situation. We also need a political solution and it needs to be hinged on the two-state solution, something that is under severe pressure.  I have spoken for longer than intended, but I will take this opportunity to thank our peacekeepers in Lebanon for their service. They are there under very difficult circumstances.  To comment briefly on what is happening in Iran, it is very clear that what is required is dialogue, diplomacy and de-escalation. The attacks by Israel on Iran were reckless and dangerous and risked destabilising the entire region. To be clear, the region and the wider world do not need more nuclear weapons. Ireland has led the way on this historically, and we do not want to see Iran possess nuclear weapons. Avoiding this requires a negotiated settlement of the kind that existed in the past and can exist again. We urge dialogue and de-escalation.  We will have discussion on the occupied territories Bill but, in my view, there is no legal obstacle to the issue of services. There is a noble desire on the part of Irish people to assist and show solidarity. There are issues regarding solidarity trips to Ireland with visas, such as the Ireland GAA trip and the Lajee Center cultural association. I will correspond directly with the Minister to ensure they can be facilitated. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  One state stands apart as a uniquely dangerous nuclear rogue state run by a wanted war criminal facing charges of genocide before the International Court of Justice. It is a state engaged in acts of terror throughout the Middle East, including illegal occupation, settlements, apartheid, annexation, ethnic cleansing, the use of starvation as a weapon of war, the use of aid distribution centres as locations for massacres accounting for 80% of the casualties in the past two months, the bombing of hospitals, refugee camps, residential areas and schools, the targeting of journalists, acts of aggression in contravention of United Nations charters, attacks on neighbours, piracy on the high seas and even shooting at Irish soldiers.  In Gaza alone, 60,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel and more than 130,000 have been wounded in the space of 20 months. Israel is, without question, the principal source of regional instability in the Middle East, yet European Commission President von der Leyen, in her phone chat with the war criminal Netanyahu, signalled that the EU agreed that the state that Israel had just attacked - Iran - was the principal source of regional instability. The EU treaties are clear that utterance by the Commission President on foreign and security policy must be consistent with positions agreed by the Foreign Affairs Council, which means the Irish Government. Shockingly, I have not heard the Minister yet say whether von der Leyen acted outside of the EU treaties unlawfully, eroding our sovereignty.  Article 3 of the Treaty on European Union commits the EU to contributing to the strict observation of international law. Central banks are obliged, under Article 127 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, to contribute to achieving such objectives. Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael and our Central Bank say it is against EU rules to have regard to international law and that it must continue to facilitate Israeli war bonds, which, in fact, the report last week of the UN special rapporteur, Francesca Albanese, stated had bankrolled the devastation. Her report outlines in detail how corporations are making a killing from the industry of death and occupation, including tourism services such as booking.com and Airbnb. The occupied territories Bill must include services. The EU-Israel association agreement must be suspended, as I have called for in the House for more than a decade, particularly now that Israeli breaches have been confirmed by the EU's own review. The genocide planes flying through Shannon Airport and over our heads, with bombs destined to calculatedly kill innocent Palestinians, must be stopped and inspected. We must do all we can to stop the slaughter. Saoirse don Phalaist\u00edn. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Donnelly  Last Sunday in Dublin West, I attended the anniversary of the genocide of 8,372 men and boys, some as young as 12 years of age, who were murdered by Serb forces. This year is the 30th anniversary. I will give a brief synopsis. Between April 1992 and 1993, Srebrenica and villages in the area held by Bosnian Muslims were constantly subjected to Serb military assaults, including artillery attacks, sniper fire and occasional bombing from the air. Each onslaught followed a similar pattern. Serb soldiers and paramilitaries surrounded a Bosnian Muslim village, called on the population to surrender, and then began indiscriminate shelling, shooting and killing. They expelled or killed the population, which offered no significant resistance, and destroyed their homes. Srebrenica was subject to indiscriminate shelling from all directions daily. In particular, Poto\u010dari was a daily target because it was a sensitive point.  Why do I mention this? It is because the world said \"Never again\". So-called upholders of western democracy, the stalwarts of human rights and international law, said \"Never again\". The hypocrisy of the West is breathtaking and we will have international repercussions for decades to come. Not alone has it allowed this to happen in Gaza, but it has actively participated in these war crimes. This country also passively participates because we allow the American military carte blanche to deliver whatever it wants through Shannon. There has been in Gaza the destruction of homes, hospitals, schools, universities, community facilities, water infrastructure, electricity, sewage facilities and everything that society needs to function. They have been systematically destroyed by the Zionist genocidal apartheid regime. Food and water are now weapons of war. One simple fact is that it could not have done this without Biden and it could not have continued without Trump, alongside the support of Britain, France, Germany and other EU countries. All of them have supplied military equipment, intelligence or flyovers from aeroplanes over Gaza.  Iran is the latest country to be attacked by Israel and the United States. It appears that the rationale was nuclear weapons. Ironically, Israel has somewhere between 40 and 400 nuclear weapons. Nobody knows but nobody cares. Can we imagine the fake horror, hand-wringing and pearl clutching if it were the other way around and Iran had pre-emptively attacked the Zionist regime with missiles because Israel held nuclear missiles? Can we imagine if Iran had targeted Israeli nuclear scientists and killed their wives, children and families? That is what Israel did. Imagine the outcry in the West at this horrific use of collective punishment for the families of those Iranian scientists and military leaders. We do not support that regime, and I certainly do not support the proliferation of nuclear weapons, but the hypocrisy across the world and, particularly, those who claim to hold western values, is astonishing.  The worrying part is that very few people around the world now will listen to the hollow claims about western values, democracy, international law and human rights because they are broken on a daily basis by those same people who proclaim them. The world is a much more dangerous place due to the genocidal acts of this apartheid regime.  Just like with Bosnia, Israeli war criminals, like all war criminals, must be brought to justice to ensure there is a long and lasting peaceful transition. The western former colonial governments must end their ongoing military involvements in the Middle East and elsewhere. This is the only way we will have a peaceful and democratic end to these conflicts.  I heard the Minister's statement on Syria. I saw a video clip the other day. Six months ago, the new President of Syria had a $10 million price on his head by the American Government. He is now f\u00eated in the White House. I find this incredible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  This week, we read more reports of starving Palestinians in Gaza being fired upon and murdered by the IDF as they made their way to Israeli and US-run aid centres for food. It really is the lowest of the low and I cannot think of another conflict where this has happened on a daily basis, with no consequences for the perpetrators or any real possibility of consequences. Israeli officials sought to shut down the pre-existing aid system run by 15 UN agencies and 200 NGOs and partners, and introduced the US and Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. There is nothing humanitarian about it.  It goes against common sense, best practice and the lived experience of genuine humanitarian workers and agencies to set up aid centres away from the population and then to tell civilians to come and get the aid. The same report quoted unnamed IDF soldiers who said they were ordered to shoot at unarmed civilians near aid distribution sites to drive them away or disperse them. The Israeli Government disputes this, but we are in the 21st century and there is ample video evidence and witness testimony to show it is lying about deliberately murdering innocent, starving and desperate civilians on a daily basis.  Israel has weaponised aid. Those words should never go together. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation aid system has been condemned by the UN agencies. UN Secretary General Ant\u00f3nio Guterres branded it inherently unsafe. Even if I welcome that statement, it is a gross understatement. Israel has conducted thousands of attacks on five countries, namely, the occupied Palestinian territory, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and Iran, in the last two years. It is militarily occupying the sovereign and internationally recognised territory of Syria and Palestine and makes regular incursions into Lebanon, which have also endangered Irish peacekeepers there.  The latest aggression was against Iran. In 2013, a news report in the Times of Israel quoted a study by the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security that stated Iran could have a nuclear bomb in a month. We are hearing the same rhetoric 12 years later from the world's warmongers as justification for Israel and its chief weapons and finance supplier, the US, attacking its neighbours. Iran does not have a nuclear weapon, nor is it close to developing one. If it had one, the US and Israel would not have attacked it as it would have meant mutual destruction. That is a polite way of saying the end of the world. Israel does not confirm it has nuclear weapons, but anyone with a knowledge of history will remember reading about the Apollo affair, where the CIA believed that Israel's first bombs may have been made with the highly enriched uranium stolen in the mid-1960s from the US Navy nuclear fuel plant in Pittsburgh. Great friends they are. Israel has not signed the treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, which is an international treaty. We know Israel does not abide by international treaties or laws unless they are of some benefit to it.  The International Criminal Court has issued warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel. The International Court of Justice has stated Israel should stop settlement activity in the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza and end its illegal occupation of those areas as soon as possible. Scores of UN resolutions have condemned the Israel Government's and the IDF's actions, yet none of these are being acted upon. Do we really want a world where international law is meaningless? We can take a stand in Ireland. We can pass the occupied territories Bill and include goods and services. We can use our voice in the EU to end the EU-Israel association agreement. We raise our voices against an apartheid state engaging in genocide and ethnic cleansing. Our history will judge us all if we continue to remain silent. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor D. McGuinness  What we are witnessing in Palestine is the systemic destruction of a people, their land, homes and children and their very future. Israel has been emboldened by decades of impunity. It is armed by the United States, Germany and Britain. This is not confined to Gaza. In the West Bank, the expulsions, land theft and apartheid continue. In Gaza, Israel has turned an open-air prison into a graveyard of children and humanity. More than 80,000 people are dead. Starvation is being used as a weapon. Hospitals have been bombed to dust. Orphaned children are emaciated and amputated. Mothers are giving birth in tents under fire from one of the world's most sophisticated militaries. A nuclear armed power has been unleashed on a besieged civilian population.  The IDF is not a defence force. It is a terrorist organisation led by war criminals. This is an army that has fired at Irish peacekeepers and endangered our diplomats. Yet it is funded, armed and defended by nations we call partners. The Irish people have not been silent. Their solidarity with Palestine is deep, instinctive and unwavering. Intellectually, we stand for justice and international law, but instinctively, we know what this is. We recognise it. Israel's presence in Palestine is our past - a brutal colonial regime, collective punishment, starvation and brutality. A people should not need to have lived through colonialism to see that it is wrong. All they need is a conscience. Yet some of our EU partners - I use that word with the bitter irony it deserves - provide not just cover but weapons. Germany, a country with which I have deep personal connection, has a particular responsibility. It is failing catastrophically. A country does not atone for its crimes by backing those of another. The past cannot be cleansed with more blood. Guilt cannot be outsourced. Germany must stop. The world is watching. The hypocrisy and moral cowardice of the German Federal Republic must be called out forcefully.  Ireland must do more. The D\u00e1il must enact the occupied territories Bill in full and include services, not just goods. The Government drags its feet, asking whether it is legal to include services. The right question to ask is whether we are in contravention of international law by not including services. Let us talk about the shameful decision by Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael to block legislation that would have prevented the Central Bank of Ireland from facilitating the sale of Israeli genocide bonds, financial instruments issued specifically to fund the slaughter. That was a choice made in this Chamber and it was the wrong one. There is credible evidence that Irish airspace is being used to transport weapons and military components to Israel. That cannot continue. The Government must act, investigate and put a stop to it.  Our neighbours in Britain, a totally normal island, are at it again. Artists are hounded for chanting \"Death to the IDF\", while Ministers turn a blind eye to the literal death dealt out by the IDF every single day. We cannot be neutral in the face of genocide. Ireland stands with Palestine. The Government needs to catch up with the people. History will remember the countries that failed to take action. The Government must ensure that this State is not among them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  We cannot equivocate on this issue. The volatility in the Middle East has been caused by Israel's ongoing decades-long genocidal campaign in Palestine and by its recent aggression against Iran. Israel is acting with impunity as the world watches on. Nearly 100,000 people are dead, with many more left permanently disabled or as lone survivors. As Mo Chara said, \"The Palestinians have nowhere to go. It\u2019s their ... home and they\u2019re bombing them from the skies\". Babies and toddlers have had multiple limbs amputated before they have even learned to walk. Orphaned children are calling out for their parents. Toddlers are on the brink of death because they have been systematically starved to death by Israel. Journalists have been burnt alive and medics have been executed in mass graves.  Palestinians are not just being exterminated with US-supplied bombs. The more insidious killer is now disease and starvation. Israel's denial of aid since March has put all of Gaza's 2.1 million people at risk of famine, with more than three quarters of them at catastrophic or emergency levels of food deprivation according to the World Health Organization. The headlines have reported this as an aid blockade, but this is not an aid blockade. Language in this war has been colonised and distorted. Organisations that should know better, and whose judgment may not be as great as we thought it was, such as the BBC, have frequently reported it as a conflict. It is clearly not a two-sided conflict; it is a starvation campaign. Gaza has been reduced to rubble. It is not possible to produce enough food there. A recent analysis found that more than 90% of cattle had died and 70% of land for crops had been destroyed. Following the cut-off of the electricity supply in March, Israel has also turned electricity into a weapon of war.  To make the situation even worse, Israel is ramping up its genocidal campaign by transforming aid distribution sites into killing fields. As my colleagues have already said, Israeli soldiers have admitted this. According to one report, one IDF soldier admitted that commanders ordered troops to shoot at crowds to drive them away or disperse them, even though it was clear that they posed no threat. When asked about it, they say they have had learnings, but they continue the killing. At least 583 Palestinians have been killed at the so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation since May. The level of callousness and cruelty on display is unspeakable. Another soldier said \"Where I was stationed, between one and five people were killed every day. They\u2019re treated like a hostile force \u2013 no crowd-control measures, no tear gas \u2013 just live fire ...\".  To use Keir Starmer as an example, he is clearly distracting from cutting fuel allowances for older people and his \"nation of strangers\" speech. He continues to spend his time recommending who should and should not perform at festivals rather than dealing with the ongoing killing campaign by Israel.  While all of this is going on, other countries such as the US and Germany turn a blind eye. Speaking out about dead Palestinian babies can land a person in prison or on a deportation list.  I want to raise the case of Jordan Devlin who is an Irish passport holder. He has been held in Wormwood Scrubs prison since August of last year. He is one of the Filton 18 activists, along with others. His father has said that his conscience could not stop him. They are charged with offences, including violent disorder and trespass that are not terrorist offences and being held on remand for more than the necessary time because the authorities are using counter-terror legislation to hold them. Jordan's trial will not be until later this year, in November, but some of his co-accused are not going to have trial dates until 2026. These are all people with no previous convictions. Some have offered bail of up to \u00a350,000 and they have been refused. All 18 of them are being held in custody. I ask the Government to take up the case of Jordan Devlin and his co-accused with the British Government at their next meeting. Arguing that international human rights law should be respected can put a person at risk.  Israel is a rogue state. I ask the Government to use its powers to stop Israeli war planes flying through our airspace and enact the war bonds legislation and occupied territories Bill to include goods and services. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  Given the slaughter, the genocide and the last 20 months of horror, to wake up to the news, as we did this morning, that perhaps there will be a 60-day ceasefire will be welcomed by most people. Of course we will welcome it if it happens but for a number of reasons it is hard to have confidence in a ceasefire in this conflict. One reason is that the person who announced it this morning, Donald Trump, has a poor record in foreign policy. I will come back to that a couple of times.  Let us consider the comments and reaction of Israel to this announcement. They are highly qualified. Is this actually going to happen? If there is to be a ceasefire, what will happen in that space? Will there be a ceasefire with negotiations to take place for a longer term ceasefire and proper peacebuilding? Are we going to see moves towards a two-state solution or recognition of the Palestinian State, as Ireland has done, and for that to become real? That sounds fantastical in the current context.  What will happen in relation to aid? The naming of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is almost to troll the people of Gaza and the rest of the world. It is anything but a humanitarian foundation. It is a new departure in the provision of so-called aid. The weaponisation of aid to Gaza by Israel and the United States has been one of the foulest elements of this crisis. If there is to be a ceasefire, will we see the re-establishment of the traditional aid organisations? Will UNRWA be allowed to do its work again? Will the World Food Programme and other UN agencies and NGOs be able to go in and deliver aid and services as they have done for decades in Gaza? It would seem not, or at least it is unclear.  What we do know is that since March and the ending of aid into Gaza by Israel, we have seen a degree of psychopathy that is seldom seen in conflicts throughout history. It is the slaughter and murder of civilians while they are queuing for the meagre amounts of aid, food and medicines that are being offered. It is absolutely abhorrent. When we felt we could not be shocked any more, it was, I believe, the slaughter, murder and shooting of people queuing for aid that was key in turning the international mood music against Israel. It has not done enough. We have not seen real action from the big powers such as the United States or from the United Kingdom or Germany, the countries that are arming, and have been arming, the Israel Defense Forces, IDF, during this war and for decades previously. We have seen some shifts in those countries and Israel may have felt that. Perhaps this is what caused Israel to become concerned again about the Iranian nuclear programme as a way of trying to convince its traditional allies that Israel is somehow on the side of good, democracy and righteousness in the Middle East. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we know is that 50,000 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF and thousands more continue to be starved by the Israeli blockade.  We must always be clear that Israel has committed a genocide on the people of Gaza. I welcome that the T\u00e1naiste has used that language consistently, including in his statement today, that Israel has committed a genocide. When we use that language the people and the regime that commit genocide must face consequences down the line. Cities in Gaza have been flattened, hospitals and schools targeted and destroyed and access to food, water and medical supplies cut off. It is not just access. The infrastructure to deliver water has been destroyed, as we in the foreign affairs committee were briefed on a couple of weeks ago. It will take many years to rebuild that. Ireland helped with funding and expertise to build that infrastructure in Gaza over the last number of years. This is another element of Ireland's commitment to the Palestinian people and the people of Gaza, of which we are proud, that is being destroyed by the bombs of Israel.  The coverage of Gaza and the war in Gaza has been subject to much criticism. I do not necessarily agree with all the criticism that has been heaped on various news organisations in this respect. I have, however, been disquieted by what has happened to the arts community, including Kneecap and Bob Vylan and what happened at Glastonbury. Moving to try to silence artists and how they express themselves, whatever our own opinions may be and whether or not we agree with what they say, is a dangerous space to be in. As Kneecap said, this is not the issue. They are just giving voice - one voice, their voice - to the suffering of the people of Gaza and if media and journalistic bodies continue down the route of following these artists around and picking apart every little thing they say or do, it will result in less coverage being applied to the conflict, war and genocide in Gaza. While this is happening, we are not focusing on the 30 people in Gaza that were killed in a caf\u00e9 by Israel or the more than 400 people murdered in cold blood queuing for aid in the last weeks. Our focus needs to be absolutely steadfast. The people of Gaza and the Palestinians have faced unending devastation from the Israeli Government.  It is another disgrace that Israel and the United States have created their own private body to control aid distribution in Gaza. I remember studying the proliferation of private security and military companies. The Iraq war was when we had an explosion in the number of these private security companies, which emerged as a big economy in the 1990s. Obviously they have existed for centuries. The Iraq war was when the proliferation of these companies exploded. What has changed now is that these private security companies have become systemic in the provision of aid. This is a departure that none of us ever contemplated. None of us who study private security companies and their role in active warfare and logistical support ever contemplated that these companies would, in such a big way, replace the United Nations, the World Food Programme and other trusted aid agencies and multilateral organisations that provide aid to people. It will be a hugely concerning and worrying departure if this template is used for any future conflicts. We will have the weaponisation of medicines, basic foodstuffs and aid. We in Ireland hold aid very dear. I am proud of the fact that Ireland is one of the few countries that have not cut aid.  Many European countries have cut aid or have put increased restrictions on aid, or in the case of the United States, have stopped aid. Ireland has increased aid, which we, the Irish people, are very proud of. The fundamental principle of humanitarian aid is that it must be neutral, impartial and based solely on need. International humanitarian law mandates unfettered access to civilians in conflict zones. Israel is stopping this unfettered access. Israel is conducting a siege and a bombing campaign, backed by the United States, which has made unfettered access impossible. Nowhere is the failure of the IDF-controlled aid system more stark than in the ongoing killing of civilians. Reading about the slaughter taking place in the queues for aid is something that I cannot get out of my head. I do not think many of us can. We have seen this throughout history, where the most vulnerable are lined up in condensed settings, set upon by psychopaths, and killed in cold blood. Israel must never be allowed to forget this and the country must be brought to justice for it.  What we have seen in Gaza is not a humanitarian response; it is an illusion of one. We hear from IDF spokespersons that the IDF does not target civilians, but we know that it does. We hear that Israel provides aid to the people of Gaza, but we know that it does not. Anyone listening to \"Morning Ireland\" this morning would have heard exactly the meagre rations people have to try to eke out survival in Gaza.  Israel has spread complete chaos in the Middle East in the past 20 months. The renewed conflict with Iran is just the latest example of a state that is completely out of control. To be clear, there is no good guy or bad guy when it comes to Iran and Israel, but Israel did start by launching missiles into Iran, even though all intelligence reports indicated that Iran was still some years away from developing a nuclear weapons programme. We know that Iran has been less than transparent about its nuclear weapons programme. It is clear to me that Iran is seeking to develop a nuclear weapon. We know that there was a successful plan, orchestrated by the former US President, Barack Obama. This was the joint comprehensive plan of action between Iran, China, France, Germany, Russia, the United Kingdom, the United States and the European Union. It was successful between 2015 and 2018 in getting rid of all the medium-enriched uranium in Iran and reducing the low-enriched uranium to negligible amounts. Then, in 2018, in what is the greatest foreign policy blunder of the past ten years, President Donald Trump, in his first term, abandoned the plan. This allowed Iran to renew its nuclear programme. Iran has remained inside the nuclear non-proliferation treaty regime, albeit not totally transparently and not always allowing weapons inspectors in. It has been a contentious relationship over many years but at least the country is in the regime. Israel is not in the nuclear non-proliferation treaty regime. The country has had nuclear weapons since the 1960s and is outside any weapons inspection programme. It acts as a law unto itself, not just regarding nuclear weapons, but in all aspects of international policy and relations.  The successful agreement with Iran allowed the IAEA huge amounts of access to ensure Iran was co-operating. This has now ended and now we hear that Iran will not be co-operating with the IAEA. This is hugely disappointing and hugely concerning for the long-term stability of the Middle East. We also hear from leaked intelligence reports that the damage to Iran's nuclear facilities was not as complete as President Trump would like us to believe. The probability of further conflict, instability, missiles and death and destruction in the medium to long term is quite likely.  We have huge concerns about a ceasefire in Gaza, because we have no commitments that real aid will be delivered by trusted organisations that know how to deliver it. We are not seeing any plans for a high-level recommitment to a long-term peace strategy for Palestine and a road to statehood for the Palestinian people. This is Irish foreign policy and the belief of the Irish people. I think it is the belief of the large majority of people in Europe, even if many of our partner governments in the European Union have been too staunchly supportive of Israel.  When it comes to nuclear disarmament, Ireland has proud role in promoting it. Ireland was the first signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and it can continue to play a role in striving towards a nuclear-weapon free world. The instability in the Middle East has many causes but the biggest impediment is the State of Israel. It operates outside so many international conventions, treaties and norms. It is inflicting a continuous genocide on the people of Gaza. It kills in cold blood Gazans who are queueing for aid. It launches unprovoked attacks on states such as Iran, and the Iranians are no angels either. I am sure that Iran will continue to fund and arm its proxies, Hezbollah, the Houthis and Hamas.  While I welcome the opportunity to speak on this topic, it is utterly depressing that we, here on the western edge of Europe, remain commentators on what is the biggest tragedy on the globe at the moment, namely, the regional conflict in the Middle East. This is being most acutely felt by the civilians of Gaza, who face death, slaughter and genocide on a daily basis. It must end. There needs to be a road to a true, viable, Palestinian state and long-term sanctions need to be imposed on the State of Israel. It cannot be allowed to continue to act outside of international norms. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Michael Healy-Rae)  Of all the subjects and all the issues that we talk about here, when we see the horrific videos and images of people, and children in particular, starving and the inhumanity and the senselessness of it all, it really would make one think that man's inhumanity to man is beyond belief. We are all rightly outraged by what is going on. That being said, Ireland is a leader in the world on Palestine. The Taoiseach, the T\u00e1naiste and the Government have been very strong on this issue. I do not like to see divisiveness in this House when it comes to an issue as serious as this. Everybody has very good intentions, but sometimes the divisiveness by the Opposition is unhelpful to what we are all trying to achieve. At the end of the day, we all want what is best for the people who are oppressed and who are being so hard done by and whose lives are being torturously affected by the horrible events of the last months and years.  I have listened to the Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach speak very strongly on this issue. We are all trying to achieve the same thing, at the end of the day. We were among the first in recognising the Palestinian state. Enacting the occupied territories Bill has been a major concern for the Government. It has been treated with urgency and importance, but with something as important as this, it has to be got right. Imposing sanctions on trade and goods from Israel are issues we are all of the one word on. It is not than any of us are disagreeing with each other fundamentally on what we want to do. I recognise and appreciate the concerns of each individual and each party in this House. Historically, we have been a very strong advocate and we have placed a strong emphasis on standing with Palestine, by being the first EU member to call for Palestinian statehood. Ireland and Spain have both called for a review of the trade relations with Israel.  When we are talking about the politics of this, we cannot ever forget that every minute, every hour and every day, torture and other awful things are happening there. We think back on what happened during the two world wars. We speak historically about those and how horrible they were and we saw what happened to the Jews in the concentration camps and we watch films and read books about it.  We just have to wake up and think, my goodness, in the modern world today we are living through and witnessing the same thing happening again. We cannot say it is worse or anything like that, but it is the same thing affecting innocent lives - people and families, who have done nothing wrong. How could any child be guilty of doing anything wrong, yet their lives are being taken? The most basic necessities are being denied to them: clean water, shelter - a place to call home with heat, comfort and the basic needs for life. All of those bare necessities are being taken away.  Ireland is doing its part every day but we must question what other larger, stronger superpowers are doing, or should I say maybe what they are not doing. There should be political outrage from everybody in today's world, no matter what side they are on, no matter who they represent or what their party is - the basic inhumanity of this is so outrageous that we should all be going out through the eye of a needle and going in the same direction at the same time. We should all be saying the same thing: this is wrong. We must go down every avenue and do everything that can be done to stop it, and to provide humanitarian assistance in every way that we can. The EU, America and other places all have to work together.  We should all support what the Irish Government, the T\u00e1naiste and the Taoiseach have been doing. While we cannot agree on everything, at the same time we want to travel on the same road, that is, the road of peace.  When I look at what happened in Ireland, I see the way everybody came together - from parties, religious people and non-religious people. Everybody played their role, no matter who they were, be it Sinn F\u00e9in, Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael or religious people. Everybody worked together because we wanted to bring peace to the island of Ireland. That was the result. Thankfully, every day in the North of Ireland people are going about their work. Families are no longer losing their loved ones. On this very small island we had a situation where we would wake up in the morning and hear that a bomb had gone off on whatever side and innocent people were killed. Now, we must use the bit of influence we have and the bit of say that we have. We must stand up and be counted. We must put our shoulder to the wheel on this most serious issue at a most serious time in everybody's life. We must think of the innocent people and what we should do, and can do to support them.  Divisiveness in this House on the issue is wrong. We should all be singing off the same hymn sheet and say that we want to help in every way we can. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Catherine Connolly)  There were two speakers in that slot. One speaker indicated. With the consent of the House I will let that speaker come in later. We will preserve the seven and a half minutes that has not been used. Rachaidh m\u00e9 ar ais ar\u00eds go dt\u00ed Sinn F\u00e9in. Glaoim ar an Teachta Denise Mitchell. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Denise Mitchell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Denise Mitchell  When it comes to the Middle East, we cannot allow a nuclear-armed rogue state to spread chaos throughout the region. That is why Israel has to be stopped.  Chants from a music festival are not the story, the daily mass murder of civilians by Israel is the story. Since Tuesday morning, more than 100 Palestinians have been murdered by Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip. Yesterday, Israel bombed a caf\u00e9 that it knew was being used by journalists \u2013 killing 24 people. This morning, Israel continues to lure starving men, women and children to their so-called aid points, where Israeli troops and mercenaries are gunning them down.  We saw the Israelis force doctors and patients out of a hospital in north Gaza at gunpoint, leaving premature babies to die alone in the intensive care ward. They murdered ambulance staff and medics and buried them in a mass grave. They even went so far as to crush the ambulances and to bury them too, to hide their crime.  This is a genocidal regime that is out of control. Its leader is a fugitive. He is wanted by the International Criminal Court on war crime charges. Israel holds thousands of hostages. They are not prisoners because they have never been charged or convicted of any wrongdoing. It is a regime that has attacked and bombed four neighbouring countries since the start of this year.  The cowardice of many western governments to hold this lunatic state to account is making the world a more dangerous place for everybody. Why would anybody bother to adhere to international law when it is clear that it does not apply to countries that have the superpowers backing them up? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I was lucky enough to be in Roe River Books in Dundalk on Friday night. If it were not for the subject matter, I would say Fintan Drury provided a great show. He was there to talk about his new book, Catastrophe - Nakba II . It starts with a quote from Benjamin Netanyahu on 29 December 2022: \"The Jewish people have an exclusive and unquestionable right to all areas of the land of Israel \u2026 Galilee, the Negev, Golan, Judea and Samaria.\"  We should not be surprised by what we have seen. While it depends on what figure we look at - whether it is 58,400, as it was about a week ago, or if we are now talking about something far closer to 60,000 - the figure is widely contested, but we know that the death toll is astronomical in the modern age. We all believed that things like this could not happen. Some people even bought into the idea that Israel sold itself as the friend of the West in the Middle East.  In fairness, the author finished the book with an acknowledgement:  My hope is that Catastrophe \u2013 Nakba II will be a credible and readable account of Israel's determination to wipe Palestine from the map and how it was sponsored in that endeavour by powerful nations in the West.  I do not have a lot of time to deal with the next point. Omar Khalil Al-Balawi was a teacher who was killed in northern Gaza by an Israeli drone on 7 October 2024. He wrote:  After a year of this ongoing crisis, we ask: Who is listening to our plight? Who cares enough to intervene? Who will stop this war and prevent further loss of life? Who will hold Israel accountable for these actions? Who will ensure our survival in the midst of this catastrophe? Despite everything, we remain resolute. As the indigenous people of this land, we will stay. This is our home \u2013 Palestine. WE WILL NOT LEAVE!  That is the disaster that they face but it is also the hope. That is why we welcome what this Government has done in recognising the State of Palestine. We also welcome that we are on the right side of the argument in regard to the EU-Israel association agreement, but we need to see movement. The occupied territories Bill must be delivered with services. We must ensure that we no longer allow the Central Bank to facilitate Israeli war bonds. We must ensure that we are that voice, that we are part of that voice, and that we provide a voice to others so that the Palestinian people know that people are with them but, beyond that, that Israel is held to account. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Catherine Connolly)  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  What we are talking about here is very small, but we need delivery. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Catherine Connolly)  I thank the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  It might need to be small before we see greater because we have seen failure from Britain, America, Germany and many others. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I welcome the opportunity to speak to the incredibly problematic situation in the Middle East. Over the past 18 months, violence has erupted across the Middle East. However, today I wish to speak about the Middle East before October 2023 - the violence at the hands of Israeli colonists in occupied Palestine; the systematic functioning of Israeli apartheid; and how Palestinians are constantly facing state-sanctioned violence.  We also need to consider the impact of the carte blanche which has been given to Israel in its acts of military aggression across the region.  In 1948, Palestine was partitioned by the UN. This plan gave Israelis, who made up less than 30% of the population, more than half of the land of Palestine. This injustice led to the first Arab-Israeli war. During this period mass expulsions of Palestinians were taking place at the hands of terror organisations such as the Haganah and the Irgun whose members formed the new IDF. This event is known as the Nakba as hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were expelled from their land and those who chose to stay were murdered. The Nakba, meaning the catastrophe, was the destruction of Palestine upon which Israel was founded. More than 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed as people fled to refugee camps - some now famous, such as Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza, which has since been levelled and its residents killed, missing or ethnically cleansed.  When we discuss the current ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the genocide in Gaza, we must remember the precursors to current events. These actions have been done in the name of an ancestral claim to the land of Palestine as a 2,000-year-old promise. What about the Palestinians who lived there 70 years ago? We must show that human rights and the enforcement of the rules-based international order are felt by real people and are not simply concepts for discussion. We must ensure that nations who perpetrate, support or are silent in the face of genocide face consequences for their complicity.  In Israel as well as occupied Palestine we see time and again the use of an apartheid system to ensure Israeli domination over Palestinians. In Israel, any Jewish person can immigrate to Israel and claim citizenship immediately, while Palestinians are refused the right to return to their family homes. Israeli citizenship law places far more restrictions on Arabs in obtaining Israeli citizenship. People from the vast majority of the Middle East such as Iraq, Yemen and the occupied territories are barred from gaining Israeli citizenship.  The education system in Israel is split between Jewish, Jewish secular and Arab schools. Arab schools are systematically underfunded. Palestinians in Israel cannot leave even if they do not have citizenship as they can be barred from ever returning. Palestinians in the occupied territories may not drive or walk on certain roads and they have different coloured registration plates on vehicles. Many Palestinian political parties have been banned as they refuse to recognise Israel as a Jewish state. In 2018, the Knesset passed the Jewish State Act, which allows for the creation of segregated spaces. This Act results in legal segregation which we all witnessed in apartheid South Africa. The legal status of Palestinians is determined purely on where they were born. In Acre in Israel they must be tried in a civilian court. In Ramallah in occupied Palestine they can be tried in a military court with no legal team to defend them or a translator. Many human rights and civil liberties advocacy groups describe this as a fundamental aspect of Israeli apartheid.  The constant and systematic use of violence to maintain Jewish supremacy has created an environment of militarism which has spilled out across the region. Most recently this has been targeted at Iran on a spurious justification of a pre-emptive defensive strike. We must be clear that the Iranian regime is oppressive. However, people cannot be bombed into freedom. Nor can liberty be enforced through the use of arms.  The dangerous action of Israel and its ally, the United States, to bomb Iran has made the Cold War of the Middle East searingly hot. The choice to bomb nuclear facilities was a failed mission, but the ecological and human cost of this operation had it been successful would have been utterly catastrophic. This jingoistic mindset is a relic of the past and yet we see the Trump and Netanyahu Administrations use military action to bolster their domestic popularity.  Again, we should remember how the Iranian Ayatollahs gained power. It was after a puppet regime was installed by the US and Britain. This brutal regime was deeply unpopular and collapsed in the face of such discontent. The puppet regime led by Mohammad Reza Shah was installed after the democratically-elected leader of Iran, Mohammad Mossadegh, attempted to form a sovereign-wealth fund by nationalising Iranian oil production. We must call out the human rights abuses on all sides of the current conflict and recognise that only through dialogue and multilateralism can we secure peace for the people of the region who have suffered through bombardment due to the political choices of their governments.  The European Union's response to this crisis has been completely lacking. Senior members of the European Commission recently declared sympathy with Israel despite the fact it had chosen to bomb Iran seemingly out of the blue. Ireland has a special status. As a member state of the European Union which has uniquely experienced a great deal of violence at the hands of a foreign power in our history, we have a corresponding duty to stand up for people who face such violence and war. A report published just this week by Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur on the situation in Palestine explicitly states:  ...where corporate entities continue their activities and relationships with Israel, with its economy, military and public and private sectors connected to the occupied Palestinian territory, they may be found to have knowingly contributed to  a. violation of the Palestinian right to self-determination  b. annexation of Palestinian territory, maintenance of an unlawful occupation and therefore the crime of aggression and associated human rights violations and  c. crimes of apartheid and genocide.  The Minister of State spoke earlier about divisiveness in this House and that we should all be singing off the same hymn sheet. The difficulty I have with that sentiment is that those in government have the power to take the actions we need to see. Those options are to pass the occupied territories Bill in full, stop the facilitation of Israeli genocide bombs, end the endorsement of the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, sanction Israel and use our diplomatic power as a member state at the EU level to end the EU-Israel association agreement and to introduce sanctions at the same level as Russia and to push for EU-level recognition of Palestinian statehood. These are not moral choices anymore; they are also legal necessities. The people of Iran and Palestine have been targeted with a militarist agenda which has only increased the instability of the entire Middle East region. We must stand against military unilateralism no matter the perpetrator and end this onslaught of violence. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Every day without fail when we turn on our televisions or open our social media accounts, we are met by death on a horrific industrial scale, inflicted by the IDF on the people of Gaza, including on children, healthcare workers and UN workers. There is no line it has not crossed or hospital it has not bombed. The Irish State has been stronger than most. It has verbalised our horror, tried to enact change at an EU level - only recently but it is no less welcome - and is now moving towards enacting some parts of the occupied territories Bill, although we will push for this State to go further. Ireland\u2019s contribution has been good but we can do much better. However, we have not been passive observers. That is absolutely fair and I want to acknowledge it. However, that does not mean we have done all in our power to prevent what we and the Government have now referred to as a genocide.  The obligations that come with the recognition of genocide are not just to call it out, but to do everything within one's power to prevent it. There are two very significant ways in which the Government and Irish State are failing in those most serious of obligations. Shannon Airport has become a key node in the transit of US military planes. These carry munitions, personnel and equipment, many of which ends up in Israeli hands to be used more broadly in bombing campaigns across the Middle East. That is not speculation or rhetoric in Parliament; it is documented by Shannonwatch and it is visible in flight logs and on the tarmac. The Government said it does not know for sure what is on those planes and cannot prove direct delivery of arms to Israel but the reality is we refuse to inspect them. We have abdicated any serious oversight and in doing so allowed our neutrality to be quietly eroded. We have allowed Shannon Airport to be turned into what is essentially a military backdoor for the United States. In recent months, people throughout my own party and the Chamber have raised this issue.  My colleague in the Seanad, Senator Patricia Stephenson, has raised issues formally and I wish to speak to some of those. Senator Stephenson wrote to OLAF, the EU's anti-fraud body, to raise concerns that Ireland is potentially facilitating VAT fraud and violating EU customs rules by not inspecting private aircraft and military-linked flights refuelling at Shannon Airport. That letter is now on record and OLAF has been notified. Senator Stephenson wrote to the Attorney General, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance and at this point we have received silence. Let me be clear that it is not about the VAT or breaches of customs regulations but it is about trying to find an angle by which this State can do the right thing. Yet, we have received silence.  Ireland's complicity in what is happening in Gaza does not stop at Shannon. We are facilitating the approval of Israeli state bonds through the Central Bank, which raise money for the Israeli state. That is the same state that is currently under investigation for genocide by the International Court of Justice and we have now aligned ourselves to that case. In doing so, we are providing a financial pipeline for EU-wide legitimacy.  The question is not just whether we are horrified. It is whether we are serious because we have options. We could suspend military overflight and refuelling permissions as Costa Rica and other states have done. We could inspect aircraft at Shannon. We could block approval of sovereign bonds of states that are under investigation for the gravest of crimes. The State has told us it does not have a role so it is incumbent on us now to determine that through the courts and we are hell-bent on doing so because, when a genocide is happening, we are obligated to do everything in our power to stop it. Our history demands that of us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  I echo my colleagues' sentiments and statements on this. The people of Gaza do not have time left for this Government's dithering and delaying on the implementation of the occupied territories Bill. Seventeen thousand children have been murdered in Gaza by the Israeli genocidal regime. Right now, millions of people in Gaza are being starved to death. They are being shot and murdered while trying desperately to reach food to feed their families. Each day that passes while Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael drag their feet on implementing the occupied territories Bill is another day of lost opportunity for Ireland to be a global leader for humanity by sanctioning Israel. Each day the Government makes more excuses, waters down the Bill and fails to implement it in full, including services, is another day lost when Ireland could be taking real action.  Real action would be passing the occupied territories Bill in full. This would send a strong clear message to Israel. It is a message it has not heard, that there are consequences for the war crimes and the genocidal hell it is unleashing on the people of Gaza. This is the problem. We fail to see countries having the courage to stand up to Israel and it is a shame and a stain on our collective humanity that Israel has not been sanctioned by any European country for its mass murder of women and children in Gaza. What a collective failure of the European project of peace and solidarity.  Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael committed in their programme for Government 160 days ago to progress legislation on the occupied Palestinian territories. That is 160 opportunities they have had to implement the Bill and they have not done so. This is despite the people of Ireland giving them a clear message in the election and every day outside the D\u00e1il and on our streets that they want Ireland to stand up for peace and humanity by sanctioning Israel. We cannot wait for our European partners in this. We must stand up now for the people of Gaza. Ireland must be courageous and sanction Netanyahu's murderous, genocidal regime. Ireland must give hope to the idea of universal human rights, that every person on this planet has an equal right to a dignified life. Palestinians, the people of Gaza have as equal a right to life and dignity as everyone else on this planet.  What have the people of Ireland made clear? When asked whether Israel's ongoing military action in Gaza amounts to genocide, 86% of people polled said \"Yes\". When asked whether the EU should suspend trade with Israel, 76% of Irish people polled said \"Yes\". When asked whether the occupied territories Bill should be passed, 74% of those polled said \"Yes\". The Government's mandate is there and this is a critical juncture in our international humanity's history. The Government needs to pass the Bill before the summer recess. The latest United Nations report names hundreds of corporations, banks, technology firms, universities, pension funds and charities that are profiting from the Israeli occupation and genocide. The report details how Israel's economy has transformed from an economy of settler occupation to an economy of genocide. Ireland can no longer participate, engage with, legitimise or fund this economy. It is time to pass the occupied territories Bill in full. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Daly  The ongoing conflict in Gaza risks igniting a much wider regional war, an outcome that would be profoundly tragic and destabilising. Gaza remains an open wound festering and poisoning relations, not just between Israel and Palestine, but also between Israel and much of the international community.  Ireland has made the situation in the Middle East a central foreign policy priority and we remain firmly committed to advocating for a sustainable peace through the realisation of a two-state solution. That a population can be bombed or starved into peace is both morally indefensible and practically impossible. It entrenches a deep collective memory of trauma and persecution among the Palestinian people, which will guarantee that the cycle of violence continues. We in Ireland understand from our history that violence begets violence. When a population is brutalised, the next generation inherits a legacy of grievance and defiance.  Let me be clear that the attacks on 7 October were abhorrent but the Israeli military response has been grossly disproportionate and counter-productive. It has not secured the release of hostages. It has not brought long-term security to Israel. Instead, it has deepened the suffering, radicalised a new generation and pushed peace further out of reach. Israel's ongoing operations in Gaza and the West Bank appear to be a systematic rejection of the two-state solution.  In Gaza, relentless bombing, forced displacement and starvation are creating a humanitarian catastrophe. Conditions are now both physically uninhabitable and psychologically unbearable. In the West Bank, government-sanctioned illegal settlement expansion further undermines the viability of any future Palestinian state. This cannot be justified on security grounds. It appears to be ideological. A war is being prosecuted against a largely defenceless population. More than 60,000 people have been killed, including a shocking proportion of women and children. Civilian infrastructure such as schools, hospitals and UN premises have been repeatedly targeted. A recent Israeli strike on a seafront caf\u00e9 which served as one of the only public Wi-Fi hubs left in Gaza killed 20 people. It was one of the last functional windows for local journalists to report on the crisis. Foreign press access to Gaza remains banned. When witnesses are silenced, truth is removed.  The ceasefire and hostage deal brokered in January offered a fragile, but real, hope to both Israelis and Palestinians and I am glad to hear the Government is calling on all parties to return to serious talks to secure a comprehensive agreement. The United States has now reported that Israel has agreed in principle to a 60-day ceasefire. President Trump has urged Hamas to accept it, but detail remains uncertain and Hamas has yet to respond, although it has indicated willingness to free hostages under the right terms. For its part, Israel has previously insisted that the war will not end unless Hamas is dismantled. These positions must be reconciled if peace is to have any chance. I urge Hamas to respond constructively. Lives depend upon it. A ceasefire is not a surrender. It is a lifeline. It is also an obligation under international humanitarian law when civilians are suffering on this scale.  The humanitarian situation in Gaza is beyond desperate. The Red Cross has warned that Gaza's remaining public hospitals are either shut or gutted after months of hostilities and supply shortages. UN and other humanitarian workers must be protected at all times as they carry out their life-saving work. Civilian infrastructure, including schools, medical facilities and UN premises, must never be military targets. There must be an immediate large-scale resumption of humanitarian aid. The trickle of aid currently getting in is a drop in the ocean. People are walking tens of kilometres in search of food, only to be met with gunfire. Israeli soldiers quoted in a Jewish newspaper, Haaretz , claimed they were ordered to fire on aid seekers even when they posed no threat. The IDF denies this but the allegations are credible and deeply concerning.  The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which was hastily created to replace the respected UNRWA, has failed. More than 170 NGOs have called for it to be dismantled. It lacks the experience, transparency and infrastructure to deliver aid safely. The death toll from Israeli attacks at Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, GHF, distribution sites now surpasses 500 people. These were innocent people queueing for food. They died not in battle, but in desperation. I support international calls to dismantle the GHF and reinstate reliable humanitarian channels like UNRWA. We must have experienced, effective, secure infrastructure to deliver aid.  I am proud of the stance Ireland has taken. Since January 2023, we have provided core funding to UNRWA. We formally recognised the State of Palestine on 28 May 2024. We have evacuated sick children and families to Ireland for medical treatment. We have deployed significant diplomatic resources to push for peace and the restoration of international law.  We will soon introduce legislation under the occupied territories Bill reflecting our obligations under international law.  This crisis has been further complicated by the escalating tension and war between Israel and Iran. I fully support the Government's view, and that of the EU, that Iran must not develop nuclear weapons but this must be achieved through negotiation and not confrontation. Iran asserts the right to peaceful nuclear energy. Israel has a right to security. They are not mutually exclusive. I deplore the repressive regime in Iran and its abuse of human rights, particularly against women, but we must not let this distract from the catastrophe in Gaza.  Prime Minister Netanyahu has warned for over 30 years that Iran is on the brink of developing a nuclear weapon, yet that threat has never materialised. We must be cautious of rhetoric that fuels endless war. It would be deeply regrettable if the Israeli Prime Minister's motive in prolonging hostilities in Gaza and Iran was contrived to avoid legal prosecution in Israel.  I urge the United States to adopt a more assertive role, not just in brokering a ceasefire, but in guaranteeing it. The world cannot continue to look away. The suffering of Gaza's civilians, the ongoing displacement and the deliberate targeting of essential services all point to a man-made disaster, a disaster that in the eyes of many, including our Taoiseach's and mine, meets the definition of genocide. Ireland's voice alone will not end this war. We are a small country but we speak with moral clarity, guided by our history, values and commitment to international law. I stand by those calling for peace, justice and the protection of innocent lives. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  Like many colleagues in the House, I rise today with a heavy heart. The situation in the Middle East, particularly in Gaza and the West Bank, is an ongoing humanitarian disaster that demands our attention, our compassion and, critically, our action. Let me begin by recalling the horrific events of 7 October, the appalling attacks and murders of innocent people. I reiterate what the Taoiseach and T\u00e1naiste have said: all hostages must be released unconditionally and without delay. Their prolonged captivity serves only to deepen suffering and delay peace but we must also recognise what has followed in the months since.  The military response in Gaza has gone far beyond self-defence. What we are witnessing now, day after day, is the collective punishment of a civilian population. It is a breach of international humanitarian law and is causing immeasurable suffering. Over 500 people have been killed while trying to access food. Hospitals and UN facilities have been bombed and children are starving. The Red Cross and M\u00e9decins sans Fronti\u00e8res speak of total collapse. The UN has described the situation as \u201cweaponised hunger\u201d. Pope Leo XIV echoed this, decrying the \u201cweaponisation of food\u201d in our time, describing it as a moral outrage and a betrayal of basic human decency.  I welcome the clear stance taken by the Government in calling for full and unimpeded humanitarian access. The T\u00e1naiste has rightly insisted that the role of UN agencies, including UNRWA, must be protected and respected. This is not just a humanitarian issue; it is a test of whether international law means anything.  I am proud that Ireland is one of the few countries to have backed up our words with concrete action. Since January 2023, we have provided over \u20ac88 million in support to the Palestinian people, including core funding to UNRWA and emergency evacuations of sick children from Gaza for care in Irish hospitals. This is solidarity in action. I also strongly support the Government\u2019s decision on the recognition of the Palestinian state in May. Recognition matters. It reaffirms our belief that peace must be built on the equal dignity of both peoples. However, recognition is not enough on its own. It must be part of a broader, co-ordinated effort to revive and implement the two-state solution, a vision that is being eroded every day by the current reality on the ground.  Let us be honest: the long-term viability of a two-state solution is hanging by a thread. The continued expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank, the deepening occupation and the violent displacement of communities are not just violations of international law. They are actions that make a future Palestinian state less and less feasible. The recent announcement by the Israeli Government of 22 new settlements in the West Bank is particularly alarming, and we are now seeing the single longest Israeli military operation in the West Bank in two decades. Combined with record levels of settler violence and movement restrictions, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that facts are being created on the ground to block any return to meaningful negotiations.  That is why I support the Government\u2019s decision to advance the Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory (prohibition of importation of goods) Bill. This is not about boycotts; it is about the alignment of our trade policy with international law. The ICJ\u2019s advisory opinion has made it clear: states have a duty not to aid or recognise illegal situations. The Bill gives that principle legal force. It is modest, practical and principled, and I hope colleagues from across the House will support it as it proceeds through the pre-legislative scrutiny stage.  We are not acting alone. Many other EU states share Ireland\u2019s view that the EU\u2019s trade relationship with Israel must be consistent with its own humanitarian rights commitment. I commend the T\u00e1naiste and his counterparts who wrote to the High Representative calling for a full review of the EU-Israel association agreement under Article 2. That review is now under way and I hope it leads to real accountability.  Ireland\u2019s role in the world has always been rooted in our own experience. We know what conflict looks like and we know how difficult peace can be. We also know that it is possible, if people are willing to engage, to compromise and to put human lives above political gain. There is no military solution to this conflict. Only a negotiated settlement can deliver peace and security for Israelis and Palestinians alike. That settlement must be based on a two-state solution, with full respect for international law and the right of both peoples to live in dignity and security.  Until that happens, as violence continues, suffering will deepen and the prospect of peace will fade further. That is why we in this House and those across the EU and the international community must keep the pressure on for an immediate ceasefire, the release of hostages, full humanitarian access and a return to diplomacy. The stakes and the continued impact on civilians could not be higher. The time to act is now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail  The situation in the Middle East, specifically in Gaza and across the occupied Palestinian territories, is beyond tragic; it is catastrophic. Ireland must speak with moral clarity and courage. As I have said before, and as many people in this House have said, what is happening is clearly genocide.  Ireland has long supported the two-state solution and advocated for peace but peace without justice is not peace at all. What we are witnessing today is the collapse of humanitarian protections. Gaza has become a place where children go hungry, hospitals are bombed and families are being deliberately targeted and murdered. This cannot go unchallenged.  More than 400 people have been killed and over 3,000 injured while trying to access food at militarised distribution centres. Aid is barely trickling in. The UN has rightly called it a teaspoon of aid where a flood is needed. The decision by Israel to take control of humanitarian aid through private contractors is weaponised hunger. We also cannot ignore the findings from the EU review of the EU-Israel association agreement. The conclusion is clear: Israel is in breach of its human rights obligations under Article 2. We now need to act on that. The occupied territories Bill is a welcome step forward but if we are to make real progress and meaningful differences, the suspension of the EU-Israel trade agreement must be prioritised. That is the most effective economic lever we have, and Ireland has been and is at the fore of pushing for it across the European Union.  Beyond the policy level, we are seeing extraordinary solidarity here at home. In Kildare and across Ireland, families are contacting me daily asking how they can help families in Gaza. Irish people are in WhatsApp groups with families in Rafah and throughout Gaza and the West Bank. They are co-ordinating donations and desperately trying to bring Palestinians here to safety, particularly those with acute medical needs, but the barriers are immense. Applying for asylum through the normal processes is next to impossible for those in Gaza. Internet access is patchy or non-existent, documents are destroyed or unobtainable, and travel outside of the Gaza Strip is almost impossible. Yet, these families continue to try. They do not want to be forgotten.  Ireland must respond with compassion and leadership. Today, I call for the creation of a special scheme for Palestinians seeking refuge here in Ireland.  This should be akin to what we provided for Ukrainians, namely, a humanitarian route grounded in urgency, dignity and practicality. We cannot ask people trapped under bombardment to wait months for paperwork that they cannot even access. This scheme would allow Irish families who are willing to sponsor and support Palestinians to do so legally and securely.  Ireland has a proud record of humanitarian responses, but now is the time for a bolder and more tailored approach. Gaza is not just facing a humanitarian crisis. It is facing annihilation. Ceasefires must hold, hostages must be released and aid must flow.  Beyond the emergency, we need to ask ourselves what role can we play in ensuring this never happens again. It starts with consequences. The EU-Israel trade agreement should be suspended until full compliance with international humanitarian and human rights law is restored. Words alone are not enough. It is action that gives meaning to our principles. I would go as far as to say that a mere suspension of the EU-Israel trade agreement is not enough. A review of any possible reapplication of it should be considered very seriously in light of what we have seen, not just over past two years, but over the past number of decades.  I commend the work of our diplomats, the Taoiseach, the T\u00e1naiste, the Minister of State, Thomas Byrne, and our civil servants who continue to work through international channels, often quietly and diligently, to help families, build pressure and support peace-building efforts, but we need to go further now. Our voice matters. In terms of how pushing for suspension of the EU-Israel trade agreement and the recognition of the Palestinian state, Ireland, Spain and a few others have stood out for a long time. Through those diplomatic relations, we have been able to bring other countries along with us and let them see our perspective. More countries in Europe now have their eyes far more open to what is happening. It has taken far too long but it shows that diplomacy - working with other countries, trying to bring them along and not just being an outcast standing on our own - works. How we make a real, thorough impact is by hitting Israel where it hurts, and that is through the EU-Israel trade agreement. That is the strongest tool we have at this moment.  Let Ireland continue to lead as it has, not only with words, but with our actions, our heart and our hope. What we did when the war broke out in Ukraine in allowing Ukrainian refugees to come here with special protections we need to consider for the people of Palestine. Not everybody from Palestine will want to leave as refugees but for those who do, we should be in a position to allow them. Trying to get visa documents and trying to get online is quite difficult, so we should be looking at ways to care for them and help them to come here if they so wish. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pat Buckley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Pat-Buckley.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pat Buckley  I came across a quote today that said a sane state did not wage war against civilians and did not kill babies as a hobby. That is a very strong statement. What has been happening, particularly in Gaza, over the past number of painful months has been atrocious. It makes me nervous that people in the western world - in the whole world - are looking at what is happening Gaza and war and death have been normalised. This shows that, while not all of us, a lot of people in this world have lost their souls and humanity.  I cannot imagine what the people who have been bombed every day are going through. What the people of Palestine are being subjected to is absolutely and utterly horrific. Millions of people face starvation. We have spoke about it. If nothing else, we have to lift the blockade on the aid and allow in what we would call impartial organisations into Gaza to distribute that aid.  Let us be honest - Israel has trampled over international law and is getting away with it. I have to be very careful with my words because, like everyone else, I can get angry. There is no crime that Israel has not inflicted on the Palestinian people, yet the international community has done nothing. We have named them, namely, the US, France, Germany and our own European Union. I thought a union was meant to help and look after one another and have strength in numbers, but I have lost faith in that. How can a lasting peace be built when Benjamin Netanyahu is not held to account? The regime acts with impunity and gets away with everything. That drives me crazy.  I ask the Government to listen to everybody here and play its part in passing the occupied territories Bill. From a tiny little acorn grows a mighty oak tree. Let us start with every small thing we can do to get us to the big oak tree and help the Palestinian people who are suffering.  Ordinary people in their tens of thousands have come out onto the street throughout the country to give voice to how angry they are at Israeli war crimes and the inaction of the Irish Government and others. Please, listen to everyone. Look at the people all over the world who have come out in support of peace and the Palestinians.  To say it is shocking, but Israel does act with impunity. That is because it has never been held to account, not for one of its actions in killing thousands upon thousands of civilians - unarmed mothers, children, fathers, you name it. Professional people who have a right to go there and report what is happening are just massacred without any consequences. It is genocide - there is no other word for it - and it is being normalised. We are not doing enough to get this right. Israel has violated every single part of international law and got away with it. We are human beings, and if we get away with something the first time, we will chance it again, regardless of what it is. That is what we have seen with Iran.  I wish to mention the band Kneecap and others who have given Palestinians a voice. It is shocking to see more time being spent trying to silence people who are giving the Palestinians a voice. If half that effort was spent trying to have peace in Palestine, we may not be in here talking about it. Please, work together and do whatever is possible to pass the occupied territories Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  It is another week of unspeakable horror in Gaza, with scores of people killed every single day, many of them - maybe most of them - while queuing for food. Another week of aid being used as a weapon of war against starving Gazans by the Israeli, US-backed, so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Another week of distraction, reframing and excuses by most of the western establishment who enable, fund and arm this genocide. \"Death, death to the IDF\". That should be a statement of good sense. Dismantle the army that is responsible for this slaughter. Support Palestinian resistance to genocide and occupation.  It speaks of the upside down world in which we live that Bob Vylan chanting this simple slogan was treated as an outrage. It provoked more investigations into artists speaking up against genocide and more attempts to conflate protests against genocide with antisemitism. In the US and across Europe, Ireland included, we are seeing the spread of authoritarianism to shut down, oppose and prevent criticism of and opposition to Israel. There has been a crackdown and criminalising of peaceful protest. It will only be a few more days before Palestine Action will likely be officially proscribed as a terrorist organisation in Britain.  Last week, many of the peaceful activists I was with for the global march to Gaza were in Brussels to demand that the EU suspend its trade association agreement with Israel. They were violently suppressed. Irish activists were arrested and carried away for simply singing a Palestinian rendition of \"Bella Ciao\".  I will finish with some other words of Bob Vylan that have not received the same coverage. He said:  We, like those in the spotlight before us, are not the story. We are a distraction from the story ... We are not the first. We will not be the last. And if you care for the sanctity of human life and freedom of speech, we urge you to speak up too. Free Palestine. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  I have only two minutes so I hope I will pick my words effectively and usefully. Since dawn this morning, 43 Palestinian people have been killed by Israeli attacks. On Monday, 74 people were killed, 30 of them at a seaside caf\u00e9 used by journalists, activists and local residents. More than 600 starving Palestinians have been killed like moving targets at a fairground. Some 4,186 were injured while waiting for food at the obscenely titled Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.  We are offering our few words today. Doctors Without Borders has told us that the aid distribution sites are \"slaughter masquerading as humanitarian aid\". Before 7 October, there were 400 such sites across the Gaza Strip. That is down to four now. Under this abomination, Gaza has gone from 400 to four, with Philippe Lazzarini the Commissoner-General of UNRWA.  I am looking at the T\u00e1naiste's 23-page speech. I see the narrative continues from the Government. Despite the good steps that have been taken, the narrative utterly fails to condemn Israel for the genocidal state it is. We talk as if history started on 7 October; it certainly did not. We condemn without hesitation what happened but no context or history are given at all. I read what the T\u00e1naiste said, and if this is what we are talking about, we have no credibility left at all. He referred to \"the conflict between Iran and Israel\", as if Iran was not attacked in an unprovoked fashion by a genocidal Israeli Government. Our Government calls that a mutual conflict whereby the countries attacked each other. That is the type of narrative that makes me very angry and deals a terrible blow to our credibility as an independent sovereign state and a Republic with a duty to speak out. We have a duty to call out the abuse of power no matter where it is. At this stage, it is Israel and absolutely Israel. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  \"War is a relic of barbarism only possible because we are governed by a ruling class with barbaric ideas.\" That was said by James Connolly as he looked at the conflagration that was the First World War. How apt it is now. We have been here previously. People are saying this is something new but, unfortunately, it is a feature of history, including the world wars, the Holocaust, Srebrenica, the 30th anniversary of which is coming up shortly, and Rwanda. Colonialism and genocide go back centuries. The indigenous native Americans had genocide committed against them, as did so many others.  The barbaric ruling class in this case comprises the US, which is funding Israel's barbarism; the EU, which is actively sending arms to the Israelis and turning a blind eye; the UK; and the so-called Gulf and Middle Eastern Muslim states that have been completely complicit in what is being done to the Palestinian people.  The UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer says Glastonbury is the problem. Apparently, \"Death, death to the IDF\" is a shocking thing to say but it is not a shocking thing to say when kids are being killed for sport. Naturally, you do not want that army to continue. I offer solidarity to those artists who are using their platforms, potentially suffering commercially and facing terrorism laws in the UK. They are risking sales. I remember Sin\u00e9ad O'Connor, who was somebody else who took a part.  I do not have time to make all the points I want to but I will mention oxycodone. That it now seems that the Israelis are deliberately putting opioid drugs into flour is disgusting.  I also want to put on the record Francesca Albanese's list of companies that have blood on their hands by profiting from this barbarism. Any TD going to 4 July celebrations has a lot to answer for in rewarding the US for what it is doing. I do not have time to name all of the relevant companies, but I will mention Palantir, IBM, Google and Facebook, which have tax-free status in Ireland. Shame on the Irish Government for not taking them to task. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Yesterday, I took part in the pre-legislative process for the Government's occupied territories Bill, or the OTB-lite. Like others, I focused on the Government's exclusion of services from the current draft. The officials from the Department of foreign affairs were able to give me a clear answer on one point I raised. One of the conclusions in the ICJ opinion, delivered last year, was that states should \"abstain from entering into economic or trade dealings with Israel concerning the Occupied Palestinian Territory\". I asked the officials if it was their legal opinion that the term \"economic or trade dealings\" in the ICJ opinion referred to trade in goods alone or referred to trade in goods and services. They were clear that the legal advice received by the departmental officials was to the effect that the ICJ was referring to trade in goods and services. As such, if Ireland passes a Bill that excludes services, we will not meet the requirements of the ICJ advisory opinion regarding our engagement with the Palestinian territories.  I also asked the officials how we could defend the occupied territories Bill against a possible challenge under EU law. To do so, we would have to use the public policy justification in Article 36 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It has been noted that the European Court of Justice scrutinises and is very strict about how that particular treaty article is used. A member state must show that it is advocating a genuine and sufficiently serious threat to a fundamental interest of society. I raised my concern that there was a risk that passing a Bill that only covered trade in goods from the occupied territories and not trade in services, which was a very obvious gap, undermined Ireland's argument before the European Court of Justice that the restriction in the Bill represented a genuine manifestation of Irish public policy. The officials were unable to give me a convincing argument on that point. I believe that by proposing a Bill that omits services, the Government is setting it up to fail a legal challenge. This weakness can be solved by including services in the Government's Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  The terrorist state of Israel continues its campaign of horror, genocide, starvation and every war crime imaginable. Civilians queuing for food because they are desperate and starving are being slaughtered. Refugees in tents are being bombed. Only one of more than 20 hospitals is now able to operate, and with great difficulty. Water supplies are being cut. Medics and journalists are being murdered. That is not to mention what is going on in the West Bank with settlers and the Israeli militia.  The State of Israel continues to act with impunity. Many governments around the world, including EU governments, are assisting and should hang their heads in shame. They are colluding with Israel. The British Government is one such government. Meanwhile, Kneecap becomes the issue for singing and shouting slogans. Nothing is said about the Government of that state supplying Israel with weapons, etc.  The State of Israel, with the assistance of the US, targets Iran. I do not like the regime in Iran. Israel targeted it with bombs, supposedly to stop its nuclear programme, despite the fact that until recently, the US Government's position was that Iran was not developing nuclear weapons. A negotiated outcome with Iran should be the priority.  What can be done?  The hostages must be released, but this must include Palestinian hostages, the thousands of young boys incarcerated in the jails of Israel and being tortured and horribly treated. We in this State must pass the full occupied territories Bill to include services. We must pass measures in the D\u00e1il to end the practice of the Central Bank issuing and approving the prospectuses for Israeli war bonds. The Taoiseach and the Government said they cannot do it. The Governor of the Central Bank has said it can be done if we put forward the measures here in this House. Gabriel Makhlouf has said this and contradicted the Government on this point. We should follow through on it. We should continue to work with EU states to try to get the suspension of the EU-Israel association agreement. I welcome the work done on that by the Government, but we must continue with it. Regarding the stopping of the slaughter of civilians queuing for food, this must be brought to the International Court of Justice and added to the case there. We must continue to use all our diplomatic resources to press for a ceasefire and negotiations and to work towards a two-state solution for Palestine and Israel. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  Over the last few weeks, I have been looking at the emails and telephone messages I have received from constituents. A lot of the names would be familiar to me. I have never heard from them previously and never thought they would be as animated about this issue as to come forward and to put in two pages of an email what they felt about it, but they did. Over time, those numbers have grown significantly. It is not that we cannot ignore them anymore, but that they are telling a truth we do not want to listen to.  Last year, on the finance committee, we dealt with the Central Bank and the bonds. We also dealt with several other issues concerning Israel. It has taken from before the last general election until now for the Government to be brought to the point where it is using words it did not use before, even though those words are meaningless and not strong enough at all.  One of the things that came across in the course of all the emails I read was the failure of Europe to deal with this situation and the failure of Ireland - even though we are a small country in that Union - to convince those in Europe that there is a serious issue here for the country and Europe to deal with. I condemn the European Union for some of the actions it has taken and for not taking some of the actions it should have taken. What is required now is a huge effort on the part of Europe, and on the part of Ireland within Europe, to convince others that action is being demanded by the people we represent.  Nobody can condone what we see on our televisions and in the print media every day of the week. It is horrendous to think that in the modern world we can have that type of murder and mayhem going on, that we are reluctant to call it genocide and that we are reluctant to take action against another country by highlighting our views simply because we may lose economically. There are times when one has to put aside any economic advantage or consideration of any economic disadvantage and do the right thing. At the weekend, I met a lady who was upset about this whole issue, about the Government and the European Union not doing what is expected of them and that the genocide and murder continues. I do not know what it takes for this House to come together with one voice and state exactly where we stand, without any dressing up or political packaging, just to say it clearly and to encourage others to take the same position as us.  The occupied territories Bill has gone around and around. I commend Senator Black on her work in this area. We have left the legislation and long-fingered it for far too long. Services need to be included in the Bill. Let it be taken to whatever court anyone might want and challenged in whatever way it has to be, but we need to make this very definite statement as a country to ensure our voice and the voices of the people we represent are heard. I read deep disappointment in the emails and communications to me. People feel they are being overlooked and not being heard and that we are playing to the gallery in relation to the bigger group within the European Union. The time has come; people would like to see democracy in action. They would like to see the European Union listening to them, for once, and they would like to see the Members of the European Parliament coming together with the countries they represent and making this statement that is now urgently required.  It is shocking to think the great powers in this world - bigger powers than Ireland certainly - and the collective power of the European Union have not achieved a free track of supply of humanitarian aid to where it is most needed. We can argue about who is right and who is wrong in relation to what is happening, but the bottom line is that it is not the fault of the women, children and men we see being murdered on our television screens. Whatever is going on, it should be put aside. Permission should be given for the humanitarian aid to pass freely to where it is needed. Because we are not getting that direction from America, the European Union needs to take that strong hand. While there is still time to do it, I hope that Ireland will correct its pretty weak position, take a strong leadership role within the European Union and do the right thing on behalf of the citizens of this country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Callaghan  To echo what all the speakers have stated today, the ongoing genocide in the Middle East is abhorrent. Innocent civilians are being starved to death. Parents have no baby formula for their infants. This is happening in our world today. While I acknowledge the Government's work so far, we need to keep the pressure on. I hear from concerned people every day across counties Carlow and Kilkenny who are, quite rightly, horrified by what is happening in Gaza. They are urging us, as a country and a Government, to do more, to push harder and to pass the occupied territories Bill - now called the Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill - and include services in it, which I am not opposed to. What is paramount is that we ensure this Bill is enforceable and the most effective legislation it can be. Adherence to any advice from the Attorney General is of critical importance. We are the only country in Europe to draft legislation of this type, and I am hopeful, once it is passed into law, that other countries across Europe will be inspired to do the same. I support the Taoiseach's call on all parties in this House to work with their equivalent parties across Europe and encourage them to speak with their governments to do as we have done and enact domestic legislation to place sanctions on Israel in response to the genocidal acts it is committing.  We need to keep making our voice heard in Europe so that our European counterparts can add their voice to ours and ensure we are heard and that we as a group of European countries together call on Israel to immediately lift its blockade of humanitarian and commercial supplies for Gaza and allow the resumption of unimpeded humanitarian aid. I share the UN's concerns that Israel's new model for delivering aid into Gaza through private contractors - the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation - is not operating in accordance with humanitarian principles. Hundreds of people have been killed while trying to collect food. UNRWA has described the model as degrading and humiliating and said it is putting lives in danger. We need European countries to join us and urge them to act to call out what is happening in Gaza for what it is - genocide.  I cannot speak about the Middle East without talking about the fragile security situation in southern Lebanon, including ongoing Hezbollah activity and the continuing Israeli strikes and infringements of Lebanon's airspace in defiance of UN Security Council Resolution 1701. All sides must meet their commitments under the ceasefire agreement. Ongoing Israeli attacks in Lebanon also undermine the legitimacy of President Aoun and Prime Minister Salam as they continue to assert the primacy of the Lebanese State. It is important to commend the Lebanese Government on its efforts to deploy the Lebanese armed forces into the south and exert a monopoly of force throughout the country. Israel's continued occupation of parts of Lebanon breaches international law. It is important that Ireland encourages the steps being taken by the Lebanese Government to reform Lebanon's economy and to continue the reconstruction of Lebanon. I am glad to see that Ireland and the EU are committed to supporting this work.  I am deeply concerned about the safety of our troops in the region. Speculation about UNIFIL's mandate renewal is not helpful and potentially endangers our troops, particularly in the context of heightened tension in the region. While it is true that in May, the Irish Government approved the continued participation of the Irish Defence Forces in UNIFIL for a further period of 12 months, if UNIFIL's UN mandate is not renewed when it expires on 31 August, which is by no means guaranteed as the US has a veto it could use if it so wishes, as Irish law stands, our Irish troops will have to immediately depart the UNIFIL mission. This is solely due to the requirement for Ireland to request permission from the US, the UK, France, Russia and China regarding where our peacekeeping troops are deployed. Meanwhile, the other troops that are part of the UNIFIL mission can continue. They may decide to continue and remain in a different capacity as peacekeepers in Lebanon with the consent of the host nation of Lebanon. Their presence will continue to provide the much-needed stability that is required in that very fragile security situation in southern Lebanon.  Bilaterally and at a multilateral level, Ireland has repeatedly called on Israel to comply with international law, stressing the universal applicability of international law, including international humanitarian law. In that way, the deliberate targeting of UNIFIL personnel or installations is a violation of international humanitarian law.  Ireland, the EU and our international partners have been clear that there can be no forced displacement of the civilian population in Gaza or occupation of the strip by Israel. We need to keep pushing. We need to hold firm and work together as a House and in the European Union to demand a lasting ceasefire, the flow of humanitarian aid, the return of hostages and the passing of the most effective occupied territories Bill and that we work towards a two-state solution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan  So far today, over 40 Palestinians have been slaughtered by Israeli airstrikes. In the past two days, over 250 Palestinians have been killed. A large number of these people were murdered while seeking aid from aid stations. Even Israeli media is reporting accounts from soldiers operating near these stations that they are being ordered to shoot civilians seeking aid. In the West Bank, Israeli forces are evicting Palestinian families and demolishing their homes to make way for more illegal Israeli settlements. International law in the Middle East has been ripped to shreds by the Israeli Government.  War crimes are taking place daily, yet this Government and our EU counterparts have failed to find any backbone or take a stand against Israel. Worse, Ireland and the EU continue trading and doing business with Israel. The Government will not even stop arms being transported via Ireland. We saw decisive action against Russia over its illegal invasion of Ukraine and war crimes but even now, after all the slaughter of Palestinians, the EU still cannot unite to say enough is enough.  Tomorrow, the UN will publish a report naming companies that play a vital role in Israel's genocide in Gaza and its brutal apartheid system across Israel and the West Bank. Microsoft, Alphabet and Amazon give Israel, through their database, free reign to maintain surveillance across the police state. These companies have all eagerly recruited staff from Israeli military intelligence. Global insurance companies like Allianz and Axa have invested heavily in shares and bonds linked to Israel's occupation. These are household names in Ireland. As usual with large corporations, profit reigns supreme. They show little or no regard for human rights violations in business partnership.  The public stands with us. The overwhelming majority want the occupied territories Bill enacted. Even Government Members agree. Find some backbone, do what is right, enact the Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill and not the Government's watered-down version and put an end to arms being transported to Israel via Shannon Airport. People in Gaza are risking their lives to retrieve food. Israel is weaponising starvation to lure them in to kill them. Do they just sit in their tents and starve to death or die trying to get food? It is like putting cheese on a mousetrap. There is only one way it is going to end.  This morning, I listened to a paediatrician on the radio. He spoke of women having children and how the children were born starving. The mothers are lucky to get fed once a day. The most natural thing for a baby is to get its mother's milk. The mothers cannot provide milk for their own children. These children and their parents are dying from starvation. They cannot even get the basic necessity - baby formula - in to save them. They have enough fuel to cook once a day if they are lucky enough to get something to eat. Imagine one's own children begging for food. Imagine what that is doing to people's mental health. It is shocking.  Albert Einstein said \"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.\"  That is what is happening. We are not doing enough. Children are owed so much more than another day of this war. It is time to act. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  We have seen horrific scenes of the destruction of people in Palestine. It is difficult to pick any single moment but I was struck by a Palestinian paediatrician, Alaa al-Najjar, who fell to her knees with the pain and devastation of witnessing her own children arriving into her emergency department. Her nine children were killed by an Israeli airstrike. They were between the ages of two and 12. To think of such young children being killed is heartbreaking and then to think there is such starvation happening in Gaza as thousands of people are in search of food, yet there is a blockade on humanitarian supplies. Hunger is being used as a weapon of war. This is genocide.  Yesterday, I listened and watched Department officials being questioned at the joint committee on foreign affairs. It was painful. As many members of the Opposition asked important and poignant questions, I was particularly struck by Senator McDowell\u2019s contribution. He raised the point that between member states of the European Union, there is a treaty entitlement that allows member states to prevent the importation of goods on public policy grounds. Has the Irish Government engaged with the European Union to see if this entitlement is available in respect of a country outside the EU? It seems implausible to think that this provision is available within the EU but we cannot enact the same legislation for a country outside the EU, for example, Morocco or Israel, when we could do it for Spain. It is very frustrating.  I have watched conversations and debate here for weeks and this issue has been passed around like a parcel. All the while I have watched the leaders of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael, the Taoiseach and T\u00e1naiste, respectively, moralise as if we have achieved something. Talk is cheap, and all that has happened has been months and years of conversation and moralising. The time for action is now. What is happening in Gaza is deeply distressing. I would like the Minister of State to take back to the Cabinet the message that we should be doing much more within the European Union to put forward the Irish position and that of the people in Gaza. Right now, we are bystanders on this. We have talked a good game here in this House but that is it. Now is the time to take the lead in the conversation across the European Union and take a more proactive role. We have a history of persecution by a foreign power in this country and we have a key competence in peace negotiations. We should be engaging with the European Union, Israel and, indeed, the Palestinians to work out a solution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  As so many speakers have said, the war and the scenes taking place out there are horrific. Nothing hits an Irish person more than to see millions of young people, or any person, facing starvation. It could not hit a deeper note in the mind of any Irish person because we have had this in our own history. It is something that will never be forgotten in the history of this country and what is happening to the Palestinians now should never be forgotten either.  I will not be critical of the Government. We have to be very careful. Much of the Opposition thinks we should shout and roar, expel ambassadors and do all sorts of dramatic things. While that sells to the public, it could have serious implications in the long term. I have concerns that Europe seems to be hand-tied against speaking out more strongly and advocating for peace. That is why every politician in this House should advocate for a peaceful solution.  Ireland is a neutral country. I am very much a believer that we should always advocate for peace. I think the Government has been doing the best it can in a very difficult situation because if the EU, which is a stronger body, is unable to do something, how is Ireland going to be a superpower?  I listened to different speakers, one of whom mentioned going to meet the US ambassador on 4 July. I would be delighted to meet anyone if it meant bringing peace to the countries that are fighting. This country wants to lead on peace abroad. Shouting over fences and screaming and roaring are not going to deliver. We need to be able to talk to the American ambassador and others in this country and sit down around the table, regardless of the occasion, when we get the chance. We will never get peace if we keep roaring. We will only adding to the problem. I will take every opportunity I get, whether it is this week or next week, to meet anyone, anywhere to try to speak about peace and push the US Government, which has a strong influence on Israel, to advocate for peace through that channel.  One of the first things I heard was the Social Democrats calling for us to expel the Israeli ambassador. We have Irish citizens over there. I would have serious concerns for the welfare of those citizens if we were to go ahead and jump at that. That shows the immaturity that is out there. Of course, it is a great soundbite, it looks good and people get lots of likes on their social media for coming out with a statement like that but common sense must come into play here. We must do everything in our power to advocate for peace. Every hour of the day, we need to seek to meet the ambassadors. We need to bring them here, talk to them and see if we can advocate for peace. Rather than engage in dramatics, maybe we need to do the ordinary everyday things that bring peace to countries and bring people together.  There is some peace in Iran at the moment, which is absolutely needed. I support any peace efforts going on there. Bombing a country, whichever country it is, is not a way forward for peace. As a neutral country, we should stand strong and do our best to make sure the powers that be in Europe are working towards peace and the powers that be in this country, through our ambassadors, should be pushing very strongly for peace.  I see a lot of protests outside the House on this issue. I believe in democracy and it is important that people voice their concerns, but the protestors out there should be careful. I have gone out there a few times. I could have been talking in the Chamber for ten or 15 minutes on the issue and the next thing is I go outside and get roared at that I do not speak about anything or any of the issues. That is not the way to bring people with you. You have to respect what they are saying and understand that they are on the same side, the side of peace. Independent Ireland is on the side of peace and making sure, first, that there is no more massacres of innocent people, second, that the starvation of people has to stop immediately and people have to get food and, third, that immediate aid be provided to the hospitals that are being bombed and they at least be allowed some safety. There are innocent people who have gone out there to give their time to help people.  Another Deputy said he was getting a lot of emails.  We are all receiving a lot of emails about this issue, some of which are extremely genuine. I have also received a lot of phone calls on this issue. I spoke to a gentleman two or three days ago who said he never rang a politician in his life, but rang all of the politicians in Cork South-West. I spoke to him at length and he was in bits over what is going on. Much of what people see on social media today probably upsets people, but they are upsetting scenes. There is no point in anyone being in denial and no one on our end will ever condone what is going on.  We should be diplomatic in our way forward and seek peace through any channel possible. We should not condemn anyone who has a different way of trying to get peace. Some believe in shouting and roaring; more believe in sitting down around the table. I am a believer in sitting around the table and trying to see whether we can bring peace to the country. If that involves meeting our ambassador from America tomorrow, I would do it. I am not one bit afraid to say that. I will not stand behind others who think that is the wrong idea. No one will insult anybody, but we need to talk and open up the channels. That is an opportunity everyone should take. People should speak peacefully to others because we will never create peace when we are throwing stones from the other side and looking over the ditch. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I thank the Minister for being here to facilitate the debate on the Middle East. All of us in the House can agree on how horrified we are by what we are seeing on our televisions day in, day out in terms of the atrocities that are taking place in the Middle East. The massacre of human life is absolutely atrocious. A number of years ago we would not have expected to witness this in the year 2025. We had hoped the world had matured to a point whereby this type of hard military action would not be taking place.  Obviously, the only way forward is discussion, negotiation and reaching a ceasefire to allow room and scope for a proper discussion and a long-term settlement to be put in place. I by no means underestimate the task involved. The problems in the Middle East, in particular Gaza and the West Bank, are decades old and there are deep rooted and very entrenched views, but we have to find a solution. Ireland can speak loudly on that issue because we had our own issues on this island. Thankfully, we managed to navigate our way through a peace process which has endured and lasted. In that sense, it gives us a sense of authority to speak on this issue.  As a country, we propose a two-state solution, which is the only way forward as far as I am concerned. As I said, we have an authority to speak on that. It is only through discussion and agreement that we will find an ultimate solution. There has been criticism of Ireland's position to the effect that we are not strong enough. A previous speaker mentioned the scores of emails that we are receiving from constituents. I fully understand that as a TD. The vast majority come from a good place and are heartfelt and genuine. People, like ourselves, are horrified by what they are seeing day in, day out. They are reaching out to their public representatives, which is what people do in a democracy. We all fully accept and understand that. Like others, I have received emails from people who ask how we can let this happen. I ask myself how we can stop this. That is a question that we, as public representative, need to ask ourselves.  Ireland has a choice to make. Do we remain a strong voice in the large powerful block that is the European Union and try to bring about progress in that forum or do we stand apart, become an outlier, be more extreme in our views and lose the powerful voice we have within the European Union? Staying in the European Union and being a strong voice is a choice because there are voices and views on Europe that are very different from ours. Other countries take a different position and have a different stance. That is why we as a country need to be strong and stay within the European Union so that our voice is heard.  Becoming an outlier and being outside the tent as a small country on the periphery of Europe will not contribute anything to a solution. We can take a stand and make ourselves feel better about what we have done on various issues, but if we want to make a meaningful difference, something we have done in Europe, we have to remain within the European family and try to make progress in that way and through that forum.  Ireland, as a whole, has been very strong in our position on the Middle East. Ireland has provided over \u20ac88 million in support to the people of Palestine since January 2023, which is a significant sum of money for a small nation such as ours. More than \u20ac75 million has been provided since October 2023. Ireland has provided \u20ac20 million in core support to UNRWA this year alone, which brings our support to \u20ac58 million since 2023. In May 2024, Ireland recognised the State of Palestine, along with Spain, in the European Union, which was a very brave decision for us to take. We have been strong in our support of the South African case in the International Court of Justice. In 2024, we facilitated the evacuation of up to 36 children from Gaza for treatment and care. All of these measures are very important.  The Palestinian authorities praised Ireland for the position we are taking. From some of the correspondence I have received, one would think we were at the other end. We are not. The Palestinian authorities have praised us. Israel and its associates have been highly critical of Ireland in terms of the position we have taken on these issues.  It is about staying the course in terms of our position in Europe, doing everything we possibly can to bring about a long lasting settlement and working the diplomatic and international channels. I again repeat that Ireland has a strong position and a lot of authority in respect of a peace process and trying to bring about an ultimate solution. I urge our political leaders, despite everything I have said, to be as strong as they possibly can when they meet their European colleagues and counterparts at various meetings and engagements and interactions across Europe and beyond. I ask that they be as strong as possible in their voice of support for a proper settlement and bring about what is needed to stop the carnage we are seeing day in, day out and the unfortunate massacre of men, women and children on a daily basis. It is simply not good enough in the world we are living in today. Surely working together collectively we can end this as soon as possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  I welcome the O'Regan family from Dublin via Cork and thank them all for coming to the Gallery. It is good to see them.  We are speaking about the Middle East which is obviously a complex issue, as outlined by Deputy McGrath. The Government has done a huge amount of work internationally, from a diplomatic perspective, and has put a huge effort into discussing and raising the issue in a way that has not happened elsewhere in the western world. We have shown leadership as a Government. Indeed, our leaders have shown leadership to the rest of Europe. In fairness, a lot of Europe is now following. Other countries, such as the UK, may be slower, but they are beginning to view things as we have done.  As Deputy McGrath outlined, the issues have been raised with us. We receive emails and see social media posts. It is often pitched that we are on the other side of this fight, for want of a better term. There is a view that we may not stand as aligned as we should, but I would argue that the people of Palestine know exactly where Ireland stands. The leaders of Palestine know exactly where we stand. The leaders in the Middle East know exactly where we stand. We stand against what is happening in Gaza and what is happening to all of the people there, especially the children, and how they are being killed and their lives destroyed. Not only is destruction happening now, what is happening will sow the seeds of destruction for future generations. That is what we in Ireland have highlighted.  Constituents in Kildare North have reached out to me over the past couple of years, especially since I have been elected to the D\u00e1il. I have received emails from people who are horrified and distressed. Their views mirror my own and those of the people beside me. People might ask why I would speak as a TD about the Middle East and ask who cares what a TD in Ireland says about the Middle East. The only reason we discuss it is that we have to discuss it and highlight what we see on our TV screens and what is going on. If we do not, the world will be silent about what is going on.  Although we are not the strongest militarily or economically, what we do have is a history of standing proudly neutral and fair behind what is right. We know that what is happening in Israel and Gaza is not right, and this is what we are calling out.  The Irish Government has always been clear on its support for Gaza. As Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath outlined, we have committed significant funding in our own way to the people of Gaza, as highlighted by the \u20ac58 million to UNRWA, among other moneys. We have repeatedly called for a ceasefire with the immediate release of hostages. We recognised the State of Palestine when other countries did not do so. We have shown the way across Europe, along with Spain and Norway, in this specific regard.  The Government will continue to make the case throughout Europe and at the UN. Let no one in this House be in any doubt about where the Irish Government stands. The country of Israel is in no doubt about where this country stands. Sometimes when I am taking part in debates on RT\u00c9 or Newstalk, the Opposition, which is not here at present, would like to label us as not being as pro-Gaza or Palestine as we should be. This goes against the view of everyone else. The Opposition is completely wrong in how it is portraying the Government. We want not only to make the case now but we have made it previously and we will continue to do so.  This debate is about the Middle East and we have seen what has happened in recent weeks with Iran and Israel. We had issues back and forth between the two countries. I hope that now they have come to a resolution and the guns have been silenced. Ultimately, an escalation of any conflict does no good to anyone. It just sows the seeds of future distrust which will continue for future generations.  Ireland remains fully committed in all of this. We remain fully committed to promoting peace throughout the world, and especially in the Middle East where we feel we have a role. The T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Harris, has been at the forefront of leading this, as has the Taoiseach. The Minister of State, Deputy McConalogue, is here representing the Government in this debate and all Ministers have been to the forefront in representing it. Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath and I may be backbench TDs but we also speak for the Government. The Government speaks with one voice and it is important that the Opposition and the people of Ireland know with what voice we speak. We speak on behalf of fairness. We speak on behalf of peace. We speak on behalf of all of the people who are struggling in Gaza and other areas of the Middle East and throughout the world. We speak for them because we speak for freedom.  This House came out of war and we have prospered in the freedom we have found since. As a country we have had our difficulties. Many of our families were involved in the War of Independence. We do not have to go back too far for all of those stories, or for the battles that raged around Europe. We have seen peace and now we want the same freedom, peace and future for the people of Gaza. This is why I am making this statement. I am with the Government and what it is doing. I call again on Israel to have a ceasefire as soon as possible so we can start to rebuild Gaza with what is required for the future peace and prosperity of the people of the area so they too can live as we do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)  The images we see from Gaza and the horrifying humanitarian situation are truly appalling. The trajectory of displacement and disenfranchisement of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank is unfathomable. More than 56,000 people have been killed in Gaza. These are the ones whose deaths have been verified. Many more bodies lie beneath the rubble. Behind each number is an individual, a loved one, and a person who had ambitions, dreams, hopes and talents.  I am also acutely aware of the situation in the West Bank. It is clear that Israeli authorities are taking measures designed to bring about the displacement of Palestinian communities. I am deeply concerned about the mass demolition of homes, buildings and infrastructure in camps across the West Bank. It marks the erosion of Palestinian life.  Against this backdrop, Ireland's position has been clear and considered. We have not been afraid to use our voices and to take action. Over the past week the T\u00e1naiste spoke with a number of his counterparts in the Middle East about the escalating hostilities. They all thanked Ireland for our consistent and principled position. Let me set out this position again. Ireland strongly condemns the continuing Israeli military operations in Gaza. We urgently need an end to hostilities and a permanent ceasefire. We unequivocally condemn the terror attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October 2023. The taking of hostages is unconscionable and I call for the immediate release of the remaining hostages. A return to diplomatic talks is imperative.  The entire population of Gaza is facing high levels of food insecurity. One in five faces famine. By mid-June, 93% of households also faced water insecurity, exacerbating public health risks. Israel must immediately lift its blockade and allow the full resumption of unimpeded humanitarian aid in line with humanitarian principles.  Ireland has used every lever at our disposal to respond to this terrible conflict, and we are continuing to do so. At the Foreign Affairs Council last week, Ireland was not alone in wanting to keep the focus on Gaza and the West Bank amid the wider regional instabilities. The EU is united in calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, the unconditional release of all hostages and immediate unimpeded access to, and distribution of, humanitarian aid in Gaza. Ireland has been at the forefront of member state initiatives to press the EU to take further actions in the face of such appalling scenes. We have paved the way for many of the policy advances we now see play out.  At the Foreign Affairs Council in May, it was announced the EU will conduct a review of the association agreement with Israel. Ireland and Spain first called for such a review in February of last year. A clear majority of member states agreed on the need to send a strong signal to Israel to reverse course, halt its military operations and lift the blockade on life-saving aid. I welcome that the review of Israel's compliance with its obligation under Article 2 of the EU-Israel association agreement has now been finalised. It is clear from the review that Israel is in breach of its human rights obligations. This is a significant finding and the human rights Vice President of the Commission has said that she will communicate this clearly to Israel. We are moving the dial. There must now be concrete options for follow-up action to the review, which will be discussed at this month Foreign Affairs Council.  Ireland has consistently called for an adequate response at EU level to the July 2024 advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice, notably as regards trade with Israeli settlements. Together with eight of our EU counterparts, the T\u00e1naiste wrote to the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Kaja Kallas, on 19 June calling for the EU to undertake a detailed review of its compliance with the advisory opinion. This review will now be taken forward in parallel with the review of the association agreement. It is essential that the EU abides by its commitments under international law.  Action at EU level is our preferred option. Our voices are always louder together, and the EU can play an important leadership role and must take action now. Pending an appropriate response at EU level, last week the Government approved the general scheme of the Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory Bill. The scheme delivers on the commitment in the programme for Government to progress legislation prohibiting the import of goods from the settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory, following the International Court of Justice's advisory opinion. The scheme has been referred to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade for pre-legislative scrutiny and the first meeting on it was held yesterday. I thank Senator Frances Black for her continuing work on the issue.  We need a ceasefire and a hostage release deal. We need a permanent solution for peace and security for Israel and Palestine and the wider region. Ireland is also working at UN level on measures to push the dial forward. On the 12 June the UN General Assembly voted on a draft resolution that demands an immediate unconditional and permanent ceasefire in Gaza. The vote took place during the tenth emergency special session of the UN General Assembly as part of the uniting for peace initiative. Ireland was proud to co-sponsor this resolution.  Another shared priority with our European and regional partners at this time is the UN high-level international conference for a peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine and the implementation of a two-state solution.  Regrettably, the conference has been postponed in response to recent developments in the region. When the rescheduled conference takes place, it will provide an important opportunity to advance discussions on concrete initiatives toward implementing this two-state solution.  The importance of recognition of the State of Palestine and support for full UN membership for the State of Palestine is crucial for achieving a parity of esteem between Israel and Palestine, underpinning political pathways to peace and countering extremist narratives that serve to undermine these pathways. This is something Ireland knows from our own peace process. Our experience in Northern Ireland demonstrates that peacebuilding and conflict resolution work, if supported by political commitment at national and international level. We remain convinced that the implementation of the two-state solution is the only viable path to lasting security and a sustainable peace for Israelis and Palestinians and the wider region.  Similarly, with regard to Iran, the recent conflict has certainly been a shock and a moment of real danger. Along with others, we used our voice to call for de-escalation, dialogue, diplomacy and for both sides to step back from the brink. We are relieved that a ceasefire is now in place and that it continues to hold. Although both sides were targeting military objectives, many civilians were killed or injured in both Israel and Iran. Attacks on nuclear installations raised the spectre of the release of radiological material, although the IAEA has reported that this was ultimately limited to the sites in question. We must also recall the attack on the territory of Qatar by Iran even though the US military action on Iran did not originate there.  Deputies will also be aware, as we have discussed many times, that there is a number of other concerns with Iran's policies which make better relations very difficult. These include internal repression, support for violent groups around the Middle East, support for radicalisation, attacks on Iranian exiles in Europe and significant assistance to Russia for its brutal and unjust war against Ukraine. There may be an opening now to reach a lasting solution to these issues. Iran has choices to make. The Iranian Government elected last year has said repeatedly that it wishes to reach less confrontational relations with its neighbours and the outside world. To do so, Iran will have to accept that its security lies not in threats and intimidation, but in positive relations with those around it and in negotiated solution to the concerns of many regarding its nuclear programme. Iran must embody that understanding in real changes to the course which has led it to its current isolation. If it does, we will be among the many states ready to engage positively with it.  Ireland is committed to supporting dialogue to achieve diplomatic solutions for a lasting and sustainable peace across the Middle East. It is clear that military responses cannot bring lasting security to any of the conflicts that afflict the region. What is needed is sustained diplomacy and negotiation, with the support of the international community. We will continue to use every option we have at domestic, EU and multilateral level to facilitate such an outcome. We look forward to continued dialogue with partners in the Middle East as we pursue this objective. I look forward to the continued co-operation of Members across this House in this pursuit and thank them for their contributions to this important debate this afternoon. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Middle East: Statements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Message from Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  The Select Committee on Enterprise, Tourism and Employment has completed its consideration of the Employment (Contractual Retirement Ages) Bill 2025 and has made amendments thereto. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Message from Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Estimates for Public Services 2025: Messages from Select Committees","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  The Select Committee on Social Protection, Rural and Community Development has completed its consideration of the following Revised Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending on 31 December 2025: Vote 42.  The Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach has completed its consideration of the following Revised Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending on 31 December 2025: Vote 13. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Estimates for Public Services 2025: Messages from Select Committees"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"billReport","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2024\/67","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2024\/67\/dail\/4","houseCode":"dail","stage":"4","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Defamation (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Defamation (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report Stage","counts":{"speechCount":56,"speakerCount":7},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I move amendment No. 1:  In page 5, line 17, after \u201cJustice\u201d to insert \u201c, Home Affairs and Migration\u201d.  I welcome the fact that we are doing Report Stage of the Defamation (Amendment) Bill now. This is a straightforward amendment because all it will do is reflect the change in the title of the Department and my ministerial office from the Minister for justice, to the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration. That came into operation on 5 June 2025. This amendment proposes to reflect that change. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 2:  In page 5, lines 19 and 20, to delete \u201cof section 34C into the Principal Act\u201d and substitute \u201cinto the Principal Act of different provisions of Part 4A of that Act effected by section 17 \u201d.  This is an amendment to section 1(2) of the Bill, which provides for the commencement of the Act. Amendment No. 2 simply clarifies that different provisions of Part 4A, which deals with transposition of the EU anti-SLAPP directive, can be commenced at different times. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 3:  In page 5, line 22, to delete the comma after \u201cAct\u201d and substitute the following:  \u201c\u2014  \u201ccause of action\u201d, \u201cdefamation\u201d and \u201cdefamation action\u201d have the same meanings as they have in the Principal Act;\u201d.  This amendment seeks to include different references to \"cause of action\", \"defamation\" and \"defamation action\", which were not in the original Bill. The amendment ensures that certain terms used in the transitional provisions introduced by amendments Nos. 11 to 17, inclusive, amendments Nos. 19 to 22, inclusive, and amendment No. 37, which we will be looking at presently, are understood in line with the definitions in the Defamation Act 2009. It is a technical amendment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  T\u00e1 leas\u00fa Uimh. 4 in ainmneacha na dTeachta\u00ed Gannon agus Carthy. Amendments Nos. 4 to 9, inclusive, are related. Amendments Nos. 5 to 9, inclusive, are physical alternatives to amendment No. 4. Amendments Nos. 4 to 9, inclusive, will be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I move amendment No. 4:  In page 6, to delete lines 18 to 35, and in page 7, to delete lines 1 to 9.  I will also speak to amendment No. 6. Amendment No. 4 is a simple but substantive amendment. We have spoken about this previously. Our principal objection to this legislation is the abolition of juries in all cases. I believe the Minister would privately accept that this is a bad, dangerous and nonsensical position to be adopting. I have not met a single person in the legal world who agrees with this move. This is one of those times when the Government has wanted to be seen to be acting as opposed to actually doing anything that will have a meaningful impact in respect of the operation of the media, the costs awarded by courts and the timeframe that these cases take.  All this will do is remove from High Court defamation cases a fundamental pillar of our legal system that is older than democracy itself in many states. Any defamation case involving anybody should have at least the option of being heard by a jury. Matters of defamation are by their very nature about the value and esteem of one's name. It is Sinn F\u00e9in's contention that the ultimate arbiters of that should be a jury of one's peers. They should be entrusted with weighing the balance of rights and harms.  We appreciate the procedural concerns and the risk of disproportionate awards but we do not feel that, as presented by the Minister and his predecessors, they are sufficient justification for curtailing the right to due process. If anything, any of the logic that was in place or could have been put in place has since been discounted. We have had the Higgins judgment, which shows there is now a formula for dealing with substantive awards. All the conventional wisdom would suggest that we will not see the types of excessive award being granted into the future.  I find it deeply regrettable. A number of Members from across the Opposition spoke at length on Committee Stage. We set out very clearly that this was, in essence, the only provision of the legislation that prevented unanimity on its passing through the House. With a bit of humility on the part of the Government by accepting that it had got this wrong, we could have had the Bill passed through the House unanimously. Virtually every other amendment apart from this one is technical in nature on Report Stage. We would have been here for a short number of minutes and got the Bill passed, and the Minister could have said that he had addressed many of the concerns that existed within our defamation laws, particularly the potential use of SLAPPs, through one of the first Bills he brought through the House and that he had the full support of the House in so doing. Instead, the Minister has done something that goes against everybody who has entered into this debate, apart from a few mega-wealthy media owners who want to just simply curtail the rights of anybody to vindicate his or her good name at all costs. The Law Society of Ireland, the Bar Council and the Oireachtas' own pre-legislative scrutiny, with its cross-party report, urged the Government not to go down this line. A previous justice spokesperson by the name of Jim O'Callaghan made a very impassioned case in this House not to go down this line, yet here we are.  I will make a final appeal to the Minister, although it appears that it will fall on deaf ears, to do what he knows is right and not proceed with this provision. The current legislative process for juries in High Court cases is sufficient, but I have gone further and moved half way. In the expectation that the Minister will whip to reject amendment No. 4, we have tabled amendment No. 6. The Minister may rule out the deletion of those sections that delete the role of citizens entirely, but let us take the process of pre-legislative scrutiny and move to an all-Ireland model on this issue. I know it is an area where the Minister shares my views in many respects. Where we can have all-Ireland harmonisation, surely that is a good thing. Why not have the same system in the North where upon application, it would allow a judge to rule that a jury may or may not be suitable for a particular case? Our amendment goes a little bit further, in that it would allow for the provision for the judge to step in on the determination of costs, one of the stated reasons for the inclusion of this provision in the legislation in the first place.  The Minister has options. He can roll back on this daft idea of eliminating juries from High Court defamation cases in its entirety and support amendment No. 4, but if he is not willing to do that, he can meet us half way by supporting amendment No. 6, which allows for the use of a jury to be determined by a judge on application. I believe that would be a sensible middle ground. It is not as far as I would like the Minister to move, but it would be a positive and welcome step if he were to accept it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  I believe it is a very retrograde step to remove a jury from this situation in the High Court. Juries have proven their worth in the justice system over time. The Minister had a different opinion himself when he was on the Opposition benches. I would be very concerned at what he is doing here.  We all know that defamation is very serious. I was a victim myself of it one time and it is a frightfully expensive process to engage with. For a person who is defamed by a media outlet or something like that is frighteningly expensive. My case was short and brought to a cessation statements that were untrue. I wanted nothing for myself only to clear my good name and have a donation given to a charitable cause, namely, local district hospice units. I was shocked by the cost of the case. There was no hearing. It was just a number of emails back and forward, and maybe one or two phone conversations, but it was a phenomenal bill. When I queried it, I was told that representation to challenge defamation was frightfully expensive. The legal eagles make the money. We have juries who will give of their time, so we must support them 100%. They sit in a voluntary capacity, but it is the legal eagles who get all the money. The cost should not be so prohibitive for the person who is nakedly and blatantly defamed. People should be able to have recourse. The best form of recourse to justice is having the case tried in front of one's peers in the form of a jury, with a judge presiding. That should be a basic requisite in legislation. I do not know why the Minister has changed his mind since he was the spokesperson in opposition. It is funny how people change when they move to that side the House. The system here is too powerful and maybe it does not allow Ministers to have the views they want to have. I am aware the Minister is privy to advice from the Attorney General and everything else. Nonetheless, the removal of a jury at any level is a retrograde step. People have been willing to serve and have served, except for the Special Criminal Court. In the case of civil litigation, juries are necessary and should be kept. I appeal to the Minister to accept the later amendment if he will not accept this one. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Once again, I will table an amendment today to retain juries. They are vital in defamation cases in the High Court. I want to be clear about why I think they are important. There is a lot in this Bill that deserves support, such as the anti-SLAPP measures, which are welcome and necessary. Protecting people who speak out in the public interest is a step in the right direction, but a provision in Part 3 is very serious, namely, the decision to scrap juries in defamation trials entirely. Section 4 removes the right to a jury in every future defamation case brought in the High Court - not in some cases, but in all of them. From the day this provision kicks in, that right disappears. We should not sugar-coat what that means. It is the removal of a long-standing public safeguard from the justice system.  A few weeks ago, I met the former High Court judge Bernard Barton. Mr. Justice Barton had previously come to Leinster House, sat in the audiovisual room, presented to TDs and Senators and laid out a very clear warning about the dangers of removing juries from cases. The advocacy to retain juries has come from those without an agenda. They have spent their entire working lives in the courts and have told us in no uncertain terms that removing juries is a dangerous mistake. We know that judges tend not to get involved in debates like this, so for them to step forward, write to us and come in person says something and we would be foolish not to listen.  We keep hearing the argument that jury trials cause delays or lead to unpredictable results but that is simply not true anymore. Whatever problems existed were addressed in the Higgins case where the Supreme Court laid out clear guidance on how juries should operate in defamation trials. The idea that this is still a problem does not reflect reality.  We are also told that removing juries will make the system more efficient, but there is no data to back this up. When juries were removed from personal injury cases in the UK, it did not speed anything up. In fact, some cases took longer. If delays are the issue, let us talk honestly. Ireland has one of the lowest number of judges per head of population in Europe. This is the problem, not juries.  Beyond logistics and efficiency, this comes down to something deeper, namely, public trust in the justice system. Juries are one of the last remaining ways ordinary people can actually take part in legal decisions. They bring their experience, perspective and values into the courtroom. In defamation cases, when someone's good name and reputation are on the line, this clearly matters now more than ever. The truth is that the Judiciary still does not reflect the full diversity of Irish society. That is just a fact. Until this changes, juries provide balance. They make sure that people are not judged solely by a professional class that does not always reflect the country as a whole. Jury trials in defamation cases go all the way back to Magna Carta. They still exist in the UK, the US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. If we get rid of them here, we will not be catching up. Rather, we will be stepping outside the line of comparable legal systems.  It is pertinent to point out again that the Minister himself spoke in the past about the abolition of juries in defamation cases. I agreed with that stance at the time and I still do. Supporting this amendment, which many of us are supporting, would reflect that same principle. The Bill already brings in some reforms, including the anti-SLAPP protections, clearer defences and a more structured approach to damages. These are really good changes and will make a difference, and they should be given the chance to work. However, there is no good reason to push forward and remove juries on top of that. This is not some tiny, procedural tweak. It is a major shift in how justice is done, and once juries are gone, they are gone for good. That part of public involvement in justice will be gone, too. We will have handed over total control of these cases to a judicial system that, however skilled or fair, does not represent the public in the exact same way. We will have done it with no real justification and no evidence to support it.  I am asking the Minister and other Members to think hard about this, not just about the headlines or the briefings but about what kind of justice system we are building. This is not about speeding things up. Rather, it is about fairness, so I want to support the amendments that maintain jury trials in defamation cases and all cases. We need to keep juries and keep the people at the heart of democracy.  There is much in this Bill that is very worthwhile and there is a lot that I would like to support. However, once we push beyond the line of removing juries from cases, what is next? A trial by one's peers is a fundamental part of all democracies. Removing it is a step that goes beyond the line that most of us are willing to tolerate. I would love to support many aspects of the Bill, as it has many worthy parts. Oireachtas committees have commissioned reports and people across the political spectrum have spoken about the ideal of maintaining juries. To remove them at this point is unfair. It is unbecoming of a modern democracy. It is not in keeping with where we have developed from, going on from the Higgins case. This is something the Minister can do that would make a real difference. I understand that we have had this debate previously and I understand the position the Minister took on the programme for Government, but I also think there is a time for leadership and a scenario like this will demonstrate it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank Deputies Carthy, McGrath and Gannon for their contributions. I will start on where there is agreement in what they have said. It is correct to say that the contentious part of the legislation before the House is Part 3, which concerns the abolition of juries. I acknowledge that the colleagues who have spoken are generally supportive of the legislation, notwithstanding their opposition to Part 3. As the Deputies mentioned, we had a very thorough discussion on this issue on Committee Stage. I stand over everything I said at that time.  I will respond to a couple of points that were made by the Deputies. We are discussing amendments Nos. 5, 7, 8 and 9, which are Government amendments, and amendments Nos. 4 and 6, which are in the names of Deputies Carthy and Gannon. I propose to deal with all of those issues in my response. I will get the amendments that are not contentious out of the way.  Amendment No. 5, which I will move, amends section 4 to remove the word \"the\" because it appears twice. This is simply a technical issue and a typographical error. Amendments Nos. 7 and 9, which I will also move, substitute the word \"instituted\" with \"brought\" to provide consistency with the terminology used in the 2009 Act. Amendment No. 8 deletes section 5(1)(c), which removed the definition of \"court\" from section 26 of the 2009 Act. That is the section that deals with fair and reasonable publication on a matter of public interest. As colleagues will know, amendment No. 15 proposes a change to that. That is why amendment No. 8 is necessary.  I will now turn to the two amendments proposed by Deputies Carthy and Gannon. Amendment No. 4 proposes to remove the section that deals with the abolition of juries. Amendment No. 6 proposes to substitute a different wording so that there would be a sort of a hybrid process in which a jury could be used to determine certain aspects of a case but a judge would determine other aspects. I will make two general points in response to the issues raised by Deputies Carthy and Gannon in particular. The majority of civil cases before the courts are not determined by a jury. They are determined by a judge sitting alone. That has been a fairly constant progression. From the time of the Courts of Justice Act 1924 onwards, we have seen circumstances where all the personal injuries actions up to 1988 used to be heard by juries in the High Court. These were abolished because it prolonged the hearing of the action and it was too inefficient for the purpose of determining the increasing number of personal injuries actions. The latter argument does not apply here, but the former does in terms of trying to speed up the process.  Very many defamation cases are heard on a daily basis without a jury. In the Circuit Court, damages of up to \u20ac75,000 can be awarded, which is a considerable sum of money for damage to reputation. Anyone who takes an action in the Circuit Court does not have a right to a jury. A defamation case in this court is heard by a judge, sitting alone, and individuals get justice there. Similarly in the High Court, many defamation cases are heard without a jury. This can happen if somebody brings forward a claim for defamation and, say, a claim for breach of privacy. The latter claim cannot be determined by a jury and, consequently, many plaintiffs opt to have a High Court judge, sitting on his or her own, determine the action. Any experiences I have had of judges on their own hearing defamation cases have indicated to me that there is not some lesser form of justice. There is no lesser vindication of the rights of the individual when a case is being heard by a judge sitting alone.  I note the points made by Deputy Gannon that sometimes judges come from a certain perspective in society and that juries bring a broader assessment. The purpose of juries is to ensure that they will deal with questions of pure fact in respect of issues that are before the court. This has happened in respect of defamation actions. However, anyone who has ever attended a defamation action will be aware that there are many occasions when the jury has to rise and leave the room so that the questions of law can be dealt by the judge, sitting alone. It is fairly clear that a defamation case heard by a judge sitting alone will be faster than a defamation case heard by a judge and a jury sitting together. This is a matter of common sense. I am also not fearful that it will result in miscarriages of justice or individuals being deprived of the opportunity to vindicate their good name.  I will now deal with amendment No. 6 in more detail. This is being put forward by Deputies Carthy and Gannon. If amendment No. 6 was accepted, it would divide roles between a judge and jury in cases that may involve substantial damages. It is noteworthy that the term is not defined in the proposed amendment. In those cases, juries would have a role in the determination of questions of fact, but would have no role in respect of the assessment of damages. As I noted on Committee Stage, it would be inappropriate to divide functions between a jury and a judge.  Deputy Carthy made the point on the previous occasion - I listened carefully to it - that it happened in criminal proceedings, where a jury determined guilt or innocence and the court then imposed a sentence. In a criminal prosecution, it is not feasible to suggest that, at the end of a determination of guilt, the jury would then proceed to set the sentence. The reason we do not do that is because of the necessity of ensuring consistency in the types of sentence imposed on individuals convicted of similar offences. Similarly, the objective here is to achieve some form of consistency in the damages awarded. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I do not know if the Minister realises, but he has undershot the entire premise and logic put forward for this Part. If I am right, he dismissed the costs that might be incurred but he said there might be an impact on the time. I would argue that the time saved would be minuscule. The Minister seems to accept that we are now in a situation following the Higgins case where there is a parameter and that is being adhered to by the courts and by juries. We had a very high-profile case involving the former president of my party and awards were given precisely in line with the standards that have now been set.  The Minister has not addressed something that arose in conversations, private and otherwise, with legal professionals, including judges. Has he considered that what will happen as a result of this move is an increase in the length of time and the costs because the likelihood of appeals will be substantially higher? The reason for that is because people are less likely to appeal a jury verdict because they know that higher courts are very reticent to overturn a jury decision. Very particular points of law must be made in that respect. They are not as reticent about overturning a decision of one of their colleagues in the Judiciary. That is a matter of fact.  My estimation is that, far from the stated rationale he presents, this Part will do the exact opposite because we will see increased pressure on the overall court system. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I listened intently to the Minister's contribution in response to the points made by the speaker to my left, Deputy Carthy, and the speaker behind me, Deputy Mattie McGrath, but I did not hear him refer to what happened following the Higgins case. I have a simple question: why is he proceeding with the abolition when the law on which the proposal is based has subsequently been swept away by the Supreme Court in the Higgins case and replaced with guidelines on damages, which we clearly know are working? There have been genuine improvements. There has also been a Court of Appeal case based on the Supreme Court judgment in the Higgins case. To be honest, I do not get a sense that the Minister is committed to this change himself.  The Minister has referred to the fact that juries are often asked to leave the courtroom for discussion to take place on a point of law. Nobody is seeking to change that. There are often contested points of law and it is fine for them to be discussed between the legal teams and the judge. Juries can still leave on those grounds, but where it matters is when it comes to a judgment by a jury of one's peers. Could the Minister speak to the determination of the Supreme Court on the Higgins case? How has that not impacted on his own assessment? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  First, I will deal with Deputy Carthy's point about time or costs. The point I make is that if a case takes longer, it will cost more. Individuals will have to pay more for a case if it goes for six days rather than four days. The two extra days will add extra cost to it.  Both colleagues referred to the Higgins decision. It was an important Supreme Court decision that set out the bands that should be awarded for defamation awards. The Higgins decision will still apply whether there is a jury or not. When it comes to the award of damages, a High Court judge sitting on his or her own, hearing a defamation action today, must apply the parameters of the Higgins judgment. The benefit of the Higgins case is not going to be lost, but it is not the sole reason for the abolition of juries. The main reason advanced is in order to ensure that the process is expedited, resulting in a reduction in costs.  Deputy Carthy referred to the fact that there would probably be more appeals. He is correct that a jury determination is generally more sacrosanct and hard to overturn than the finding of a judge. One of the deficiencies that exists in respect of the area of defamation that will be improved should it be determined by judges is that we do not have any reported first-instance decisions on defamation cases in the High Court. We seldom get that because what happens here, as happened in the case of the former leader of Deputy Carthy's party, is that we just get a result from a jury that the plaintiff succeeds and the damages are a sum of money. Whereas if we have a decision of a judge, we get an explanation as to why the plaintiff was defamed, the defences that were put forward and why they have or have not succeeded, and a justification for the award of damages coming within the Higgins parameters. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I feel the Minister is chasing his tail trying to find reasons to support this provision when he knows in his own heart, and with his own legal experience, that there is no credible reason to do it. This was a move on the part of a predecessor of his, predominantly pressed by large-scale media outlets and owners, to address one particular issue and then a number of other issues were thrown in, including the abolition of juries. When the abolition of juries was put forward, it was a surprise to a lot of people, including the Oireachtas committee that was dealing with it. The entire logic that was presented by the Minister's predecessor and the Department was down to the cost of awards. That is the reason that was provided and that reason has now been put in the dustbin. The Minister has acknowledged that through the Higgins judgment. When there is a rationale for a law \u2013 not that I ever agreed with it, but I ask the Minister to bear with me - but that rationale clearly stops existing, does he not agree that it amounts simply to pigheadedness to pursue the law regardless, without any consideration of the consequences? I do not want to put words in his mouth, but if I am correct, the Minister is on the record as saying his mind has been changed on this. Previously, we know that he was very cautious and warned these Houses about abolishing juries in this instance. Now, he is advocating the exact opposite of that.  How would the Minister feel if, upon further reflection in a number of years' time when he is out of office, he realises he made a real mistake and undermined the judicial system? I ask him to reflect on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 5:  In page 6, line 21, to delete \u201cthe\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I move amendment No. 6:  In page 6, lines 22 to 24, to delete all words from and including \u201ca\u201d in line 22 down to and including line 24 and substitute the following:  \u201cthe court may, on the application of any party to a defamation action in the High Court, or a question of fact or an issue arising in such an action, order that the action or any issue of fact in the action shall be tried without a jury if it is of opinion that such trial\u2014  (a) will require any protracted examination of documents or accounts or any technical, scientific or local investigation which cannot conveniently be made with a jury,  (b) is for any special reason (to be mentioned in the order) unsuitable to be tried with a jury.  (2) The court may, on the application of any party to a defamation action in the High Court, order that in matters which may involve substantial damages\u2014  (a) issues of fact shall be tried with a jury, and  (b) the quantum of any damages which may arise be adjudicated by the presiding judge.\u201d. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  It will be at least 10 p.m. before we reach the voting block. We do not know how many more votes there will be in between. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 7:  In page 6, line 25, to delete \u201cinstituted\u201d and substitute \u201cbrought\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 8:  In page 6, to delete line 32. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 9:  In page 7, line 9, to delete \u201cinstituted\u201d and substitute \u201cbrought\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 10 to 14, inclusive, 17 to 22, inclusive, and 37 are related and will be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 10:  In page 7, line 19, after \u201ccorporate\u201d to insert \u201cthat is made on or after the date of the coming into operation of section 6 of the Defamation (Amendment) Act 2025 \u201d.  This group consists of the transitional provisions included throughout the Bill. Before I address those amendments, since we are on section 8, I will refer to the section. It deals with the provision of a new defence for retailers in circumstances where they are accused of defamation by persons who allege they were defamed by the retailer because they were stopped to check whether they had paid for goods or services. This provision, which is contained in section 8, remains completely intact from the time it was introduced by my predecessor, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, on 2 August last year. The reason I make that point is there has been some ill-informed and very inaccurate commentary suggesting I have in some respect changed or amended section 8. That is completely incorrect. It remains exactly the same.  This is a vigorous and very powerful defence I hope retailers will use. The reason the Oireachtas is unanimously giving them this power is to ensure they are not subjected to unnecessary defamation actions. However, if they do not avail of the statutory provision we are giving them, they cannot subsequently complain about the fact that it is insufficient. It is a very sufficient and powerful protection and they should avail of it. Any commentary to the contrary, suggesting I have in some way changed or amended it from the way it was introduced, is simply false.  Amendment No. 10 provides that the serious harm test introduced for bodies corporate by section 6 will apply with respect to statements made about bodies corporate from the date of the commencement of section 6.  Amendments Nos. 11 to 14, inclusive, 17 and 37 concern the new and updated defence provided for in the current sections 7 to 11, inclusive, and section 20. The amendments provide that the defences will apply to causes of action which accrue on or after the date those defences come into operation. For example, the defence of live broadcasting introduced by the current section 11 will come into operation for broadcasts made after that section commences.  Amendments Nos. 17 to 22, inclusive, relate to procedural changes provided for in the current sections 12 to 16, inclusive. The amendments made by these sections come into effect only in respect of proceedings brought on or after the date those sections come into force. For example, section 16 provides for certain requirements regarding the making of correction orders. Those requirements will apply to defamation actions brought after that section is commenced.  Clearly, this group of amendments comprises transitional provisions. They all provide the same with regard to providing that the defences only come into operation after the commencement of the legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I will make a couple of points. On the retail defamation, as it is called, and section 8, as I have indicated before, it is incredibly important that we have this defence. It is equally important that this defence is not abused. There is clearly a communication issue. I met a retailer in the House today, a member of a representative organisation, who expressed real concerns that this section will not actually do what the Oireachtas wants it to do. Prior to Committee Stage in the Seanad, perhaps the Minister would be willing to engage with representative organisations to clarify this or to get a sense of whether there is a need for further clarity within the section.  I did not move any amendments with regard to the so-called corporate provisions and the test that is to be incorporated. I think this will be the first section of the legislation that could very well result in a return of the D\u00e1il to amend this legislation further. As I mentioned on Committee Stage, there is real potential to have what might be described as corporate entities - they could be charitable organisations, as I said in the debate, or they could be political parties - that could suffer from malicious articles or publications and while they might not meet that test, the damage could be very real. I reiterate that I have a concern in that respect. Nevertheless, we will not oppose any of the amendments in this section. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I will reply to the point Deputy Carthy made about section 8. It got some publicity as well around the fact that it was suggested I had deliberately changed the provisions of section 8 to suit myself, or for some purpose that was not in the public interest. As Deputy Carthy knows, that is not correct because he was here on 2 August last year when the Bill was introduced and there has been no change to section 8 since then.  I am happy to sit down with retailers. This is a very powerful defence but like any defence, it has to be used.  There is no point in the Oireachtas drafting defences, putting them into legislation and enacting them if people for whose benefit they have been enacted decide not to use them and take the easy option out by saying they have been advised that they should just pay over \u20ac5,000 to see off a claim. They should fight claims. Part of the reason claims are encouraged is when a tendency develops not to contest claims. If people contest claims that are not valid, then the message will go out to litigants that there is no point in taking those claims because defendants have the statutory power to stand up to them. People need to avail of the statutory power that, ultimately, we are going to give them. I am happy to discuss it with any retailers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 11:  In page 8, between lines 4 and 5, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendment effected by paragraph (a) of subsection (1) shall apply only to causes of action accruing on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 12:  In page 8, between lines 31 and 32, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendments effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to causes of action accruing on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 13:  In page 9, between lines 3 and 4, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendment effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to causes of action accruing on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 14:  In page 9, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendment effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to causes of action accruing on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 15 and 16 are related and will be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 15:  In page 9, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following:   \u201cDefence of publication on matter of public interest   11. (1) The Principal Act is amended by the substitution of the following section for section 26:   \u201cPublication on matter of public interest   26. (1) It shall be a defence (to be known as the \u2018defence of publication on a matter of public interest\u2019) to a defamation action for the defendant to prove that, in all the circumstances of the case\u2014  (a) the statement in respect of which the action was brought was on a matter of public interest,  (b) the defendant reasonably believed that publishing the statement was in the public interest, and  (c) the statement was published in good faith.  (2) Subject to subsection (3), a court shall, for the purposes of determining whether subsection (1)(b) is proved, have regard to whether the belief was arrived at after the making of such enquiries  and checks as it was reasonable to expect of the defendant.  (3) Where the statement in respect of which the defamation action was brought was an accurate and impartial account of a dispute to which the plaintiff in the defamation action was a party, the court shall, in determining whether it was reasonable for the defendant to believe that publishing the statement was in the public interest, disregard any omission of the defendant to take steps to verify the truth of the  imputation conveyed by it.\u201d.  (2) The amendment effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to causes of action accruing on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d.  As colleagues will be aware from Report Stage amendments, what is being proposed here is that we will amend section 26 of the Defamation Act by providing for a much simpler and concise defence of publication on a matter of public interest. Colleagues may be aware that since the 2009 Act was enacted and came into force on 1 January 2010 there was a statutory defence in line with what was referred to under the common law as a Reynolds-type defence. Section 26 gave effect to that and the whole purpose of that section when it was enacted in 2009 was to provide a statutory defence for what we can refer to as responsible journalism. That would operate in circumstances where a journalist or a publisher made a factual error in the publication that was broadcast or published in a newspaper or online, but the factual error would not expose them to a claim in defamation because it was a reasonable publication on a matter of public interest.  Since that legislation has come to be enacted section 26 has been pleaded on many occasions but there are very few judgments or, indeed, decisions of juries where section 26 has been successfully invoked. Understandably, persons who seek to rely upon this statutory defence are thereby concerned that there is not a sufficient understanding of the section on the part of judges or juries, or it is not effective enough for the purpose of availing of what was previously a statutory defence.  What this amendment is seeking to do is to try to simplify it. As I said, section 26 was intended to facilitate public discussion on matters of public interest. This facilitation of public discussion is in line with Ireland's obligations under Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, ECHR, and it plays a vital role in safeguarding democracy. However, feedback received from stakeholders was that the existing section is overly complex, lacking in clarity and sets too high a hurdle. Particular concern was expressed in relation to the onerous checklist in section 26(2) which provides for ten factors which the court may take into account when determining whether publication of the statement was fair and reasonable.  Section 11, therefore, puts forward a simplified defence which seeks to facilitate public debate in the public interest while safeguarding the right to a good name. The new defence requires a defendant to demonstrate first that the statement was in the public interest, second, that they reasonably believed publishing the statement was in the public interest and, third, that the statement was published in good faith. When considering whether a defendant reasonably believed publication to be in the public interest, the court must take into account whether the belief was arrived at after the making of such inquiries and checks as it was reasonable to expect of the defendant.  If the statement in question consists of an accurate and impartial account of a dispute to which the plaintiff and the defamation action was a party, the defendant is not required to demonstrate that they took steps to verify the truth of the imputation conveyed by it in order to demonstrate reasonable belief that publication of the statement was in the public interest. This provision recognises that in some instances there is a public interest in the neutral reporting of allegations in circumstances where it is clear that the publisher is not standing behind those allegations. In other words, it may sometimes be in the public interest to know that an allegation has been made in respect of an individual before that allegation can be investigated.  However, that does not give a freeway to individuals to say they are just publishing an allegation that has been made elsewhere. It has to be in the public interest and there has to be a certain reasonable belief that the publication was in the public interest and there also needs to be a recognition that there is a responsibility on the publisher to take reasonable steps to inquire into the veracity of the statement.  Amendment No. 16 adds a new section 26A to the Bill. This provision abolishes any defence which may have existed at common law on the basis of the decision in Reynolds against Times Newspapers Limited in which the United Kingdom House of Lords in its judicial capacity recognised the existence of a defence for responsible public interest journalism. The purpose of section 26A is, therefore, to make it clear that where a claim for defamation arises after its commencement, any defence on the basis that the publication is in the public interest should be based on the newly inserted section 26 only. This avoids any confusion or duplication with pre-existing defences.  The purpose of these amendments is to ensure that there is a more concise, comprehensible and usable defence of reasonable publication on the matter of public interest. In the second amendment I just discussed, it seeks to make it known that any other type of Reynolds-type common law defence has been abolished.  There is some uncertainty at present as to whether or not the Reynolds common law defence still exists at common law. My own view is that it has been abolished by the enactment of section 26 but certainly the courts will take a decision. Mr. Justice Collins in the Court of Appeal has recognised that there is some uncertainty about that issue. If it is the case that we are going to enact a statutory defence of fair and reasonable publication, what we do not want to happen is that there is going to be a parallel and corresponding common law defence emanating back to the Reynolds decision. The Reynolds decision was a very interesting decision, in that it recognised for the first time that you could have a public interest defence in respect of publication to the world at large. Prior to that it was very much a qualified interest defence that was based upon duty and interest of individuals. An individual had a duty to confer information and another individual had an interest in receiving it. They tried to apply that to publications to the world at large because they recognised the importance of trying to defend responsible journalism that was in the public interest but which may have been inaccurate in one factual respect.  In order to deal with that they had Reynolds in England for many years. We then adopted Reynolds here even before the enactment of the 2009 legislation, the Blom-Cooper decision here recognised that Reynolds operated here. However, the net effect for it is that once we enacted section 26, it is fair to assume everyone thought that the Reynolds defence had ceased to exist. There is, as I said, uncertainty as about it. This legislation and this latter amendment will ensure there is no parallel common law defence alongside the new section on reasonable publication in the matter of public interest. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I thank the Minister for his remarks. Most people will welcome the clarification that these amendments bring. However, we need to be very clear as a House in terms of setting out precisely the need for this, if you want simplification of the defence of public interest. My position on this matter is fairly straightforward: media organisations or anybody who is publishing information pertaining to individuals and entities should not tell lies about them. They should not publish things that are not true.  If they do, then people have a right to vindicate their good name through the courts, I would argue, adjudicated by a jury of their peers. I absolutely agree with the provisions in this Bill. If people maliciously use the court system to intimidate people from speaking truth to power, so-called strategic lawsuits against public participation, SLAPP, it is absolutely right that they would be held to account. That is why we will be supporting the provisions in that regard.  I also think we should reflect on the reason the public interest defence has not been used or cited too often. Usually if there is a very strong argument for a public interest defence, the case would not come to trial in the first place. As I mentioned previously, I have a concern around the narrative of this whole issue. The Minister acknowledged on Committee Stage that Ireland does not have a big issue with SLAPP. We have had an issue in the past in respect of high awards. The awards were substantially too high. This sense that newspapers or other media organisations are living in fear because of defamation laws has been exaggerated. I do not think that the media sector does itself many favours. I cited earlier the recent Adams case in the High Court. Clearly, what was published and broadcast about Gerry Adams was not true. Anybody could see it was not true and was highly defamatory, yet it went to the High Court at obscene cost to the BBC, a public body. Immediately afterwards, the loser in the case, the BBC, doubled down on what in my view was an unsustainable position. Other media organisations and representatives talked about a chilling effect. I will put on the record that there should be a chilling effect on media outlets to stop them publishing things about people that are not true. If that is the case and it is one of the reasons the public interest defence has not been used regularly, so be it.  Everybody acknowledges that every organisation and person can make mistakes for the right reasons. That is why this particular section of the Bill is important. There should be no get-out-of-jail-free card for people who cite the public interest but are really on witch-hunts or following their own agendas, whether political, personal or financial. We need to be very clear in that respect.  It is always a bit archaic to consider that a decision of the British House of Lords became de facto common law that is applicable in Ireland. As I say, I welcome the clarification of that issue in this legislation.  Above all, we need to be clear that truth matters, particularly in the modern world. There is now a broad array of broadcasting vehicles, including anonymous Facebook pages, personal TikTok accounts and multibillion euro media enterprises. There is an obligation that if you are publishing something to the world at large, you make due effort to ensure you are publishing the truth and facts, and are not demeaning somebody's good name or character.  In all of this debate, we must acknowledge why defamation laws exist in the first place. It is a legitimate reason. It provides the balance between free speech and the right of a person to vindicate his or her good name. There is also the public interest provision that needs to be there and that is why I will not be opposing these amendments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I will be brief in response. I note what Deputy Carthy said about the provenance of the Reynolds defence, which emanated from the British House of Lords. I am not trying to open up old wounds, but the jury system came from the British system of justice that operated in Ireland. I will not go back on that.  Deputy Carthy said that people should not tell lies. Everyone agrees with that. However, most defamation actions do not involve a defendant who has deliberately told lies. Most defamation actions that arise are as a result of an error that has been made. The whole purpose of the legislation we are introducing here, the new statutory provision, is to recognise that there are circumstances where, for responsible journalism, broadcasters or newspapers could be doing a story that is very much in the public interest, whether it is about exposing wrongdoing in nursing homes, cr\u00e8ches or politics, and could have taken responsible steps to ensure the story is in the public interest and has been investigated. However, there may be a factual error within the story. The error may be that the story identifies me as opposed to, say, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Does that minor error mean they have no protection?  The purpose of what was originally the Reynolds-type defence, what now is in section 26 and what is going to be proposed in this new provision, was to recognise that there will be occasions when a responsible journalist may have made a mistake in one or two details but because the general story was in the public interest and because the journalist had gone out of the way to verify the truth of what he or she published, and that he or she sought a response from the individual who subsequently becomes the plaintiff, all those factors taken into account can, in certain circumstances, give them a form of defence. However, this defence only kicks in where there is a mistake. It is not always the case, but sometimes can be, particularly online where most defamation happens now, that in an orthodox defamation action against a media defendant, the media has gone out of their way deliberately to tell lies. My experience is that does not happen. Mistakes happen, and in certain instances where there has been public interest journalism and the media have abided by certain ground rules, they should be able to avail of a defence. It is up to the court to determine whether they get it, but they should be entitled to avail of it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I do not argue with the Minister about any of that and that is why we are not opposing this section. I will make one point. The Minister suggested that the media never go out of their way to lie about someone. Can I suggest that he is saying that with the luxury of being a Fianna F\u00e1il representative? If he were a representative of my party, he would not be able to say that. There have been instances where media outlets have published downright lies about my party. They have done so knowing they were lies. No defamation case was possible because it was the entity of Sinn F\u00e9in, rather than individual members, that was defamed. So be it. I will defend to the last the right of the media to do their job of holding power to account. I accept there will always be instances where genuine mistakes are made. I do not in believe in penalising a media organisation or an individual journalist when mistakes have been made, provided that they have made every effort to ensure the truth was the basis of the information that was published.  We are agreeing on the outcome, but perhaps the Minister and I are coming at this with different experiences. As he rightly said, and this is important when we deal with all of this, the real threat to people's good character is not coming from a daily broadsheet or the evening news anymore. It is coming from anonymous actors who have, in many cases, malicious intent. They are publishing material that can be published much more widely than any traditional media could, and much faster. It is important when we are discussing these matters to be conscious of all of that. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 16:  In page 9, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following:  \" Abolition of Reynolds defence  12 . The Principal Act is amended by the insertion of the following section after section 26:  \u201c Abolition of Reynolds defence  26A . (1) Any common law defence known as the Reynolds defence that, immediately before the commencement of section 12 of the Defamation (Amendment) Act 2025 , could have been pleaded as a defence in a defamation action is abolished.  (2) Subsection (1) shall not apply to causes of action accruing before the date of the coming into operation of section 12 of the Defamation (Amendment) Act 2025 .\".\". "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 17:  In page 10, after line 37, to insert the following:  \"(2) The amendment effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to causes of action accruing on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\". "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 18:  In page 11, between lines 8 and 9, to insert the following:  \"(2) The amendments effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to applications under section 28 of the Principal Act made on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\". "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 19:  In page 11, between lines 11 and 12, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendment effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to actions for damages for defamation brought on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 20:  In page 11, between lines 25 and 26, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendments effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to defamation actions brought on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 21:  In page 11, between lines 28 and 29, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendment effected by subsection (1) shall apply only\u2014  (a) in a case where a defamation action has been brought, where the defamation action is brought on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section, or  (b) in a case where a defamation action has not been brought, to an application under section 33 of the Principal Act made to the High Court on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 22:  In page 11, after line 32, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendment effected by subsection (1) shall apply only to defamation actions brought on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 23 and 24 are out of order. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendments Nos. 23 and 24 not moved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendment No. 25 arises out of committee proceedings. Amendments Nos. 25 to 33, inclusive, are related and will be discussed together. Amendments Nos. 28 to 33, inclusive, are consequential on No. 25. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 25:  In page 15, between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following:   \u201cOrder for damages in case of section 34F or 34G declaration   34H. (1) Where\u2014  (a) the court makes a declaration under section 34F or 34G that the defamation proceedings concerned or part thereof amount to abusive court proceedings against public participation (in this section referred to as the \u2018declaration\u2019), and  (b) the defendant in those proceedings (in this section referred to as the \u2018defendant\u2019) makes an application to the court, whether before or after the making of the declaration, on notice to the plaintiff in those proceedings (in this section referred to as the \u2018plaintiff\u2019), for an order for the payment of damages by the plaintiff to the defendant under this section,  the court may, in addition to the making of the declaration and in its absolute discretion, order the plaintiff to pay damages to the defendant as a result of injury, loss or damage suffered by the defendant consequent upon the bringing of the proceedings or part thereof the subject of the declaration.  (2) In deciding whether to make an order under subsection (1), and, where applicable, in determining the amount of any damages to be paid, the court shall have regard to all of the circumstances of the case and the interests of justice, and may take into account the following matters as it considers appropriate:  (a) the nature of the public participation concerned;  (b) the purpose or purposes for which the defamation proceedings or part thereof the subject of the declaration (in this subsection referred to as the \u2018proceedings\u2019) were brought relating to the defendant\u2019s engagement in public participation;  (c) the conduct of the proceedings;  (d) any other factors leading to the making of the declaration;  (e) whether the declaration has been made under section 34F or 34G;  (f) whether the declaration relates to all or part of the proceedings;  (g) the injury, loss or damage suffered by the defendant as a result of the bringing of the proceedings (including, where appropriate, the threat of such proceedings) and any mitigating factors.  (3) Where an application for an order for the payment of damages is made under subsection (1)(b)\u2014  (a) the plaintiff and the defendant may make submissions to the court and adduce evidence, and  (b) the court may direct that evidence be given, in relation to the application.  (4) Where the court makes an order for the payment of damages to a defendant under this section, the court may, if it considers it appropriate to do so, apply the provisions of section 34F(2) or 34G(2), as the case may be, to costs incurred as a result of an application made by the defendant under subsection (1)(b).  (5) The damages recoverable under this section in the Circuit Court shall not exceed the amount standing prescribed, for the time being by law, as the higher of any limit of that Court\u2019s jurisdiction in tort.  (6) The Personal Injuries Assessment Board Act 2003 shall not apply in relation to an application under subsection (1)(b).  (7) This section shall not affect the operation of sections 31 and 32.\u201d.  Amendment No. 25 introduces a new section, 34H, into Part 7 of the Bill. Section 34H empowers a court to award damages to those who have been subject to abuse of court proceedings against public participation. This transposes Article 15 of the anti-SLAPP directive, which requires member states to make provision for effective, proportionate and dissuasive penalties or other equally effective appropriate measures, including the payment of compensation for damages or the publication of the court decision on the party that brought the SLAPP proceedings. Section 34H provides that damages may be awarded only where a court has declared the proceedings in question to be abuse of court proceedings against public participation under section 34F or section 34G of the Act.  In determining the amount of damages to be awarded, the court must have regard to the circumstances of the case and the factors set out in section 34H(2). These include the injury, loss or damage suffered by the target of the proceedings as a result not only of the bringing of the proceedings but also, where appropriate, the threat of those proceedings. This recognises that the purpose of SLAPP proceedings is not to gain access to justice or to genuinely exercise a right, but rather to intimidate those engaging in public participation, creating a chilling effect on public debate.  The court must also consider the conduct of the parties, the purposes for which the proceedings were brought, the factors leading to the making of the declaration and any mitigating factors. The court may seek evidence before making a determination as to damages and the parties may make submissions to the court on the issue. This is a significant provision that recognises the impact of SLAPPs, including psychological and financial impacts. It provides a remedy to compensate victims of SLAPPs for harm suffered and adds significant weight to the existing safeguards contained in Part 4A of the Bill. It also strikes an appropriate balance between the right to public participation and the right of access to the courts. It does this, first, by providing that damages are only available where a declaration has been made by the court that the proceedings are abusive and, second, by directing the court to take into account, among other things, any mitigating factors and the purpose for which the proceedings were brought, when considering the amount of damages to be awarded.  Amendment No. 26 replaces the previous section 34H, which provided for the publication of judgments and orders of the Circuit Court. The purpose of providing for the publication of judgments and orders in SLAPP cases, as set out in the anti-SLAPP directive, is twofold. On the one hand, it acts as a deterrent to the bringing of such proceedings while, on the other hand, it provides a source of learning and awareness in relation to SLAPP cases. With those objectives in mind, this amendment seeks to expand the requirement to publish SLAPP judgments beyond the Circuit Court to any court that makes a finding that proceedings are abusive proceedings against public participation in a defamation action.  Additionally, it clarifies that the requirement is to publish written judgments, and, where there is no judgment, to publish the relevant court order. This is a very appropriate provision contained in amendment No. 26 and consideration should be given to using it outside the area of SLAPPs. It is something I am considering in other areas as well.  Amendment No. 27 provides that the provisions of Part 4A of the Defamation Act 2009 relating to SLAPPs will only apply to defamation proceedings brought on or after the date on which those provisions come into operation. Amendments Nos. 28 to 33, inclusive, renumber provisions, which is necessary following the insertion of several new sections by the amendments proposed today. Amendment No. 29 removes reference to the fact that the current provisions of section 34J are without prejudice to the Mediation Act 2017. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I support these amendments. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 26:  In page 15, to delete lines 24 to 30 and substitute the following:   \u201cPublication of certain judgments and court orders   34I. Where a court finds in the course of defamation proceedings that the proceedings are abusive court proceedings against public participation, the court shall direct that any written judgment of the court or, in the absence of a written judgment of the court, any order of the court, related to that finding, shall be published on the website of the Courts Service where practicable and as soon as so practicable.\u201d.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 27:  In page 15, between lines 30 and 31, to insert the following:   \u201cTransitional provisions relating to provisions of Part 4A of Principal Act   18. Where a provision of Part 4A of the Principal Act comes into operation on a particular date, it shall do so only in relation to defamation proceedings (within the meaning of that Part) brought after that date.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 28:  In page 16, line 4, to delete \u201c 34I. \u201d and substitute \u201c 34J. \u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 29:  In page 16, line 15, to delete \u201c 34J. (1) Without prejudice to the Mediation Act 2017, a\u201d and substitute \u201c 34K. (1) A\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 30:  In page 17, line 6, to delete \u201c 34K. \u201d and substitute \u201c 34L. \u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 31:  In page 17, line 27, to delete \u201c 34L. \u201d and substitute \u201c 34M. \u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 32:  In page 18, line 13, to delete \u201c 34M. \u201d and substitute \u201c 34N. \u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 33:  In page 18, line 14, to delete \u201c34L(1)(a)\u201d and substitute \u201c34M(1)(a)\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amenadment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 34 to 36, inclusive, are related and will be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 34:  In page 19, line 33, to delete \u201cintermediate\u201d and substitute \u201cintermediary\u201d.  These amendments make changes to the definitions contained in the proposed section 45 of the Defamation Act 2009 introduced by section 19 of the Bill. Section 45 provides the Circuit Court with jurisdiction to make identification orders. This allows a person who has been subject to defamatory comments by anonymous posters online to seek information identifying those posters. Amendment No. 34 corrects a mistaken reference to an \"intermediate\" rather than an \"intermediary\" service provider. Amendment No. 35 adds wording to the existing definition of \"information society service\" to clarify that although such services only include those provided for remuneration, this remuneration may be received by the service provider either directly from the user of the service or indirectly through advertising or other means. Amendment No. 36 adds a further definition of \"recipient of the service\", a term used in the existing definition of \"intermediary service provider\". The definitions of \"information society service\" and \"intermediary service provider\" align with those contained in EU law instruments, most notably the Digital Services Act.  When looking at the amendments we have just discussed, particularly those dealing with section 45, these really take into account the fact that we are going to see an opportunity here for people being defamed online to bring applications before the Circuit Court to secure identification orders. We have been talking here about defamation in the context of defamation taking place in what is the traditional format, where the media - a newspaper or broadcaster - publishes something false about an individual. Fortunately, that happens very infrequently. The vast majority of defamation that takes place now is online, where anonymous people publish to a large number of individuals defamatory material about an identifiable person. In most instances, it is extremely hard for the person defamed to get any remedy because it is not possible to identify who the publisher is and it is difficult in the context of trying to hold social media companies liable for it. The real benefit of this legislation is that we now have a statutory mechanism provided in the legislation in section 45 for the purpose of enabling somebody to go to the Circuit Court and to apply for an identification order that will compel a social media company to tell them the identity of the account holder who has published the defamatory material.  Deputy Carthy spoke earlier about members of his party being defamed. No political party in this House - and it certainly does apply to Fianna F\u00e1il - has not been defamed. I think it is fair to say, however, that politicians should have a thick skin when it comes to publications put out there in the traditional media. We should perhaps also have a thick skin when it comes to false and defamatory comments made about us online, although that is a matter for each individual politician. I refer to a situation, however, where egregious defamatory statements are made about individuals, falsely accusing them of the most heinous and serious offences.  That does merit a statutory response. The constitutional right to one's good name means something. Sometimes I am concerned that the debate on defamation focuses very much on the right to freedom of expression and the organised campaign that can be put forward by the media, as it is entitled to do. However, as legislators, we must take into the account the individual - the citizen - who does not have an organised group campaigning to ensure his or her right to his or her good name is protected and defended. That is why it is so important that provisions like this are included and that is why it is so important that the Defamation Act respects the balance between conflicting rights: the right of an individual to his or her good name, and the right of an individual or corporate entity to freedom of expression. Our job in the Oireachtas is to try to balance those rights. I suspect that the most egregious development in the world of defamation in the past 100 years is the development of social media and the ease with which individuals can make false defamatory statements about persons who might not even be well known - private individuals who have no recourse. I hope this statutory provision will give them some recourse. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I also hope these provisions address the issues the Minister outlined. I do not dispute anything he said, including the argument that politicians should have thick skins. I endeavour to live up to those standards daily. I am a passionate advocate of freedom of speech. I believe it is essential in a functioning democracy that people can feel to say things - even nasty things or critical things - about politicians or others in power, particularly those in power.  There is a distinction between free speech and anonymous speech whereby somebody can hide behind a computer and not have the guts to reveal himself or herself when he or she publishes what can be abhorrent material about a person or entity with no consequences. In that vein, I mean it when I say that I hope that the provisions outlined by the Minister do their stated job. It is a high bar for a lot of people who might find themselves in that position. As the Minister said, there has been an evolution of defamatory comment. Due to the multitudes of mediums by which people can publish assertions, it is probably people who do not have access to a solicitor or recourse to or understanding of the law who are likely to become victims in all of this. I hope that we will reach a point where not only will this mechanism work but the fact that the mechanism is there will give social media companies the freedom to divulge the information early on when it is requested by people seeking to find out who is behind these anonymous accounts that in many cases are causing significant societal destruction in terms of the malicious agendas they pursue. This is notwithstanding everything I have said about the right to free speech. I believe in it passionately but if somebody wants freedom of speech, he or she should also avail of the freedom to reveal himself or herself and have the guts to stand over what it is he or she wants to say. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 35:  In page 20, line 7, after \u201cremuneration,\u201d to insert \u201cwhether such remuneration is provided directly by a recipient of services or indirectly through advertising or other means,\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 36:  In page 20, between lines 32 and 33, to insert the following:  \u201c \u2018recipient of the service\u2019, in relation to an intermediary service, means any natural or legal person who uses an intermediary service, in particular for the purposes of seeking information or making it accessible;\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 37:  In page 21, after line 19, to insert the following:  \u201c(2) The amendments effected by subsection (1) * shall apply only to causes of action accruing on or after the date of the coming into operation of this section.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Bill reported with amendments."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defamation (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"billReport","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/7","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/7\/dail\/4_sub","houseCode":"dail","stage":"4_sub","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Social Welfare (Bereaved Partner\u2019s Pension and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025: Report and Final Stages (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Social Welfare (Bereaved Partner\u2019s Pension and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025: Report and Final Stages","counts":{"speechCount":39,"speakerCount":8},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 1, 2 and 21 to 23, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I move amendment No. 1:  In page 5, between lines 17 and 18, to insert the following:  \u201c(3) Before this Act comes into operation the Minister shall publish a report which outlines the following:  (a) the degree of financial dependence that families with divorced or separated parents have on those parents;  (b) an overview of the legal issues with not providing the same level of access to social protection payments for some children\u2019s families based on the marital status of their separated or divorced parents.\u201d.  I am speaking on amendment No. 1. This is a very important amendment, in particular given that our key amendments have been ruled out of order. That is bizarre because we should have a right to debate the changes being made to the Bill by the Government. We should have the right to vote on them, but the Government is using the so-called additional costs reason which, in this case, is inappropriate because the Minister, it could well be argued, is removing a cost. We have no control over this.  The lack of attention this Bill has received is very unfortunate. It is very unfortunate that despite all of the political correspondents hanging around the D\u00e1il, none saw fit to write an article on the Bill. The changes the Minister proposes to make on the back of the O'Meara judgment are completely against what the Supreme Court ruled. The Supreme Court wanted to equalise the situation, whereby cohabiting people would have the same entitlements as married, separated and divorced people if their partner died. Instead, the Minister will apply the legislation to cohabiting people while excluding separated and divorced people.  My amendment calls for an assessment to be carried out in advance of the financial hardship that will occur for so many families arising from this change. The Free Legal Advice Centres, FLAC, One Parent and Treoir, key organisations that deal with lone parents, women and all sorts of one-parent families, have all opposed these changes. The Minister is setting his face against them.  I will provide a couple of examples. This is an attack on a universal payment. On Committee Stage, I asked what alternative the Minister was providing for separated or divorced partners who had maintenance arrangements in place with a deceased partner and may have been co-parenting and sharing parental costs with their partner, such as getting help to pay their mortgage or rent or to fund their children's education, if they had children. What the Minister said in respect of one-parent families was completely disingenuous because he knew the change would not apply to most people. Payments are means tested. If people work, etc., they do not receive the payments. Families will be plunged into poverty as a result of this. People who have maintenance agreements and support will lose all of that, along with emotional support. The Minister is fine with that. It is quite shocking.  This is a breach of faith. The statements made by Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael, the two main parties in respect of the divorce referendum, included a promise that people would not suffer if they were divorced or separated. However, the Minister is now introducing discrimination against people who are separated or divorced.  The worst aspect of the Bill relates to children. The Minister is creating a new discrimination against children. I hope the Ombudsman for Children takes this up. I know for a fact there will be legal cases taken in the future on this.  I want to highlight another issue, namely, funeral costs. When my partner died last September, I, along with my daughter, organised the funeral. I shared parental responsibilities with my late partner. I paid for the funeral because he did not have any other family. If this were to happen next year, I would pay for somebody's funeral, lose maintenance and be in a really difficult situation, regardless of being a TD. This happened before I was elected. I am talking about people in ordinary jobs who are trying to keep their families going. The Minister is okay with this. There is a grant of up to \u20ac8,000 for funeral costs, which will be gone for many people. Treoir and other organisations, such as FLAC, which took the case that brought about the change, have asked the Minister not to do this. Its representatives have met the Minister and spoken at briefings. Unfortunately, the Minister has not changed his mind.  The Minister is trying to make out the O'Meara judgment said we had to do this. The O'Meara judgment did not say he had to do this. It made it very clear that all children and partners should be treated equally. We have a bizarre situation now. I know somebody who will benefit from this and I am delighted. I have been briefing them about this Bill for months because they are a single cohabiting person with no children. Somebody who is cohabiting and does not have any children will get this, but somebody who has three, four or five children with their partner and was in receipt of financial support will get nothing. How does the Minister justify this? It is seriously beyond belief the way he is doing this so blithely. It is wrong that the Minister is pushing ahead with this despite all of the cases being made.  The Minister hates putting ideas into people's minds but he has now opened the way for private pension companies to discriminate against separated people. I know this for a fact because, from experience and from having spoken to solicitors, separated people are treated exactly the same way as married people in terms of getting death in service benefits and other pensions their partner may have had. The Minister is now opening it up to profit-hungry insurance and life assurance companies to change that situation. They will decide that they can do so because the Government has done so. It is absolutely disgraceful.  I ask that the proposed change not be brought in until the Minister has reported on the financial implications of doing so. The legal implications are huge. I have cited pension companies and cases that definitely will be taken to the High Court, Supreme Court or whatever on behalf of separated and divorced people. They should not have to do that because we are telling the Minister now that there is a problem and he is just not listening. He is trying to make this cost neutral and does not seem to recognise the impact it will have, primarily on women, by the way, because it is women who are lower paid in general and have living arrangements involving children. It is a real attack on women as well, and that has been said by all of the organisations. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I am on the record as having welcomed this legislation. I understand its intention and to respond to the judgment was very necessary. It is important, however, when we have the opportunity, that we make the legislation as good and decent as it can be and ensure that it reflects the judgment.  We must remember the Chief Justice placed an emphasis on the rights of all children and the obligations of their parents, irrespective of the status of their parents. We are not talking about large numbers. There are no floodgates, as FLAC has pointed out. As Deputy Coppinger said, and rightly so, FLAC took the case. It has been immersed in this. FLAC, One Family and Treoir all ask the same thing, which is, if possible at this late stage, will the Minister try to include all children.  Most of our amendments have been ruled out of order. This is very regrettable. The Bill has come before us in order to rectify legislation that treated the children of cohabiting parents less favourably than the children of married parents. That was declared unconstitutional, and rightly so, but it is hard to see any justification for the introduction of legislation that treats the children of separated or divorced parents less favourably than children whose parents are married, in a civil partnership or cohabiting.  The amendment being proposed is very sensible. It is simply about the compilation of data and the examination of the potential financial implications. I genuinely do not believe it is the Minister's intention to exclude these people but it is hard to come to any other conclusion. We are standing here telling the Minister there are people and children, not in large numbers, who will potentially be discriminated against. The Minister is creating another class of child, which flies in the face of the judgment. I encourage the Minister to support the amendment and do this work before the Bill is enacted. The intention here is to right a wrong but the Minister will not right that wrong by creating another category, layer and group of children who are excluded.  I know, not from my own personal experience \u2013 touch wood \u2013 but from experience in my very close family, how important this money is to people at a time in their lives when there are expenses such as funerals and kids to be cared for. It is very tough time and the money is very much needed. It is also a recognition of the children, and this is worth saying. This represents a levelling down. The Bill creates a category of children and a category of family who will be excluded and treated less favourably. Before the Minister presses ahead with this, it is right to support the amendment and take this opportunity to review the financial implications and the potential for hardship for a very small number of people. I want to really stress there are no floodgates about to be opened. We are talking about small numbers but, nonetheless, for every single one of them this is a very important amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I want to be associated with the case made on amendment No. 1 and I wish to speak in support of amendment No. 2, which is grouped with amendment No. 1. Amendment No. 2 proposes a report that includes the examination of estimated savings by excluding those who lost a partner before that date in January 2024. For a number of years in the House I have raised the need to extend the widows pension to unmarried couples where a partner is lost, particularly where there are children. Accessing supports based on marriage is a very outdated, old and ancient rule in social welfare. Of course, when it comes to the means test and everything else, it does not matter whether people are cohabiting. Marriage is irrelevant and everyone's means are taken into account. It is one rule for one thing and another rule in other cases when money is paid out.  I have been raising this issue for a number of years because of a constituent close to my hometown who lost her fianc\u00e9 in December 2021. They had three very young children and he died suddenly. They were due to get married but, unfortunately, because of Covid the wedding had to be cancelled. It was postponed and then he died suddenly. If he had died in December 2024 she would have been entitled to the widow's pension but based on the date she will not be entitled to it. I had promised her, as I sought this change, that I hoped it would be for everyone who has lost a partner, regardless of the date. There are not that many people in this category. I feel obliged, now that legislation is going through, to make the case on her behalf. She is not the only one but I feel obliged to do it this evening. It is something that has been asked of the Minister, and he has said it cannot be done, but I would like him to take the opportunity this evening to advise us on what he has done on the extension of this and why it is not possible.  We will have people who will access the widow's pension because their partner died after a certain date, and we will have widows in the exact same position but based on the date they will not be able to access it. This is deeply unfair. We should never base laws on a certain date or time. It should be for everyone, and it should be equal no matter what date someone lost the person they love, in many cases the father or mother of their children. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I welcome the fact we are on Report Stage of the Bill. I put on record my thanks to John O'Meara, and I recognise his late partner Michelle, and I also thank my colleague, Deputy Kelly, who has put tremendous work into this, as the Minister has acknowledged.  The Minister might clarify the point Deputy Kerrane raised in her contribution. My understanding is that anyone would be entitled to the pension after January 2024 and, therefore, in the case Deputy Kerrane mentioned, the person would be entitled to it after January 2024. I ask the Minister to clarify this. This is the understanding that I have taken to many people. It is a big issue and if this is not the case we will need to revisit the Bill very quickly.  I support amendment No. 1, as I did on Committee Stage. Since we started this discussion, and Deputy Kelly brought it to the Labour Party, a number of separated or divorced persons have come to us. They have relied on the income, particularly for the children of the relationship. As I said the other day, the emphasis of the Bill, through the Supreme Court, is on the children. I ask the Minister, as the other speakers have done, to reconsider this part of the Bill and put something into it that will acknowledge the fact that many people in such a relationship will be out of pocket.  As has been said, the number of people who have contacted us is not large. There are no large numbers in this but it is significant that these people will find themselves considerably out of pocket in some cases. In one case I am aware of, when the children were going to college there was a substantial cost. I ask the Minister to reconsider this. Treoir, FLAC and One Family have highlighted this to us. It is important that we acknowledge this, as has been outlined by the two previous speakers on amendment No. 1.  On amendment No. 2, we want to see how effective the Bill is, which is why we have proposed a report three months after the passing of the Act. It is to ensure we are taking care of the greatest number of people possible. This is what Johnny O'Meara wanted to do. It is what FLAC and Treoir wanted to do when they got behind the Bill, and what Deputy Kelly wanted when he got behind the Bill. We do not want to leave anyone behind. This is why we have asked for a report to be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas after three months.  There is an issue with amendment No. 1, which was outlined on Committee Stage. It is something on which we need to hear from the Minister again. The number of people involved is not large but there are people involved. I put the emphasis on the children. With regard to amendment No. 2, which we have tabled, we need to know the Bill is fit for purpose and that all the great work done by John O'Meara and his family, and by Deputy Kelly in assisting them, was worthwhile in the end, and that the Bill will cover the greatest number of people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  I support my colleagues Deputies Coppinger, O'Reilly and Wall in respect of amendment No. 1. I appeal to the Minister, in the spirit of meaningful collaboration on the Bill, to take on their very reasonable arguments, which have been very well articulated. If clear unfairness is identified in a Bill, it is very important that it is acknowledged and that there is not a default Government position of pushing it through without having a very reasoned response.  I appeal to the Minister in that regard. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Thomas Byrne)  A number of my constituents will benefit from this Bill. I pay tribute to John O'Meara for going to the Supreme Court and acknowledge the circumstances in which he went to it. I know the Minister, Deputy Calleary, will take on board what the Members have said today. I sympathise with Deputy Coppinger as well. It is awful. I acknowledge the officials in the Department under the Minister who brought this Bill forward. We would have liked to have had it quicker, but bringing forward a Bill this quickly after a major constitutional case is tremendous work. This Bill will be of significant benefit overall to many families throughout the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Dara Calleary)  I thank the Deputies for their remarks. I will speak to the amendments first and then speak to some of the queries that were raised, which were dealt with on Committee Stage. Amendments Nos. 1 and 2, and 21 to 23, inclusive, are grouped together.  As I said during the Committee Stage debate, it is not appropriate to include commitments to producing reports in primary legislation, particularly legislation that is as complex as the Social Welfare Consolidation Act. That is my view in respect of all of the proposed reports and reviews within this grouping. The social welfare system provides for annual reviews through the Social Welfare Acts and through the monitoring of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social Protection, Rural and Community Development. I made commitments that I would engage extensively with that committee on this Bill.  With respect to specific issues regarding reports being sought through the amendments, as is clear from the Bill and as we all want to do, the intention is for this legislation to become operable on enactment. This is important for those who will become eligible for the pension for the first time. It would be impossible to produce the report sought by Deputies Coppinger and Murphy through amendment No. 1 before the Act comes into operation, unless the suggestion is that the payment to surviving qualified cohabitants is delayed until such a time as the report, which is unlikely to be feasible, is produced. I do not think that is the Deputy's intention. Some of the information sought in the report and in the reviews sought in amendment No. 23 does not come with the information currently available to my Department and is unlikely to be publicly available at all. My Department does not hold information on the degree of financial dependants that families with divorced or separated parents have nor could it determine the financial arrangements that exist between divorced or separated parents or the impact in the case of a death. It would be wrong for me to commit to something in legislation that cannot be produced.  Deputy Wall seeks a report through amendment No. 2. I will provide clarification to Deputy Kerrane on this case. Deputy Wall's amendment tries to quantify the financial cost of providing payments to those who suffered a bereavement before 22 January 2024. In recognition of established legal principles, it is proposed that the payment of the bereaved partner's contributory pension will commence only from the date of judgment in the case of a death that occurred prior to that date. To clarify, in the case Deputy Kerrane mentioned, the person will be entitled to the payment, but the payment will be from 22 January 2024, when the legal entitlement was actually made in the Supreme Court judgment. They will be entitled. If the application is successful, the payment will be from 22 January 2024, when the existing law was found inconsistent with the Constitution.  To go back to Deputy Wall's amendment, while a report may, subject to the information provided by the claimants, give a clearer indication of the quantum in respect of pre-2024 payments, it will not change the legal position on the effective date of the payment. Legislation is typically only applied prospectively, hence any retrospective conferring of entitlement requires a strong legal justification to avoid creating unwanted precedent which could affect other schemes. To pick another date prior to this could be considered arbitrary and potentially expose the State to further claims.  The more general reviews sought by Deputies Coppinger and Murphy in amendments Nos. 20 and 21 were debated on Committee Stage. It may be appropriate to build reviews into some legislation, but I do not agree that such reviews are appropriate in this legislation. As I said, social welfare legislation is focused and is subject to ongoing review annually through the Social Welfare Acts, the social welfare joint committee and the day-to-day operation and experience. I assure the House that I am asking my officials to review the impact of the changes, including those who qualify and any issues that may arise. I do not propose to provide for this in primary legislation, but I gave a commitment to the committee and I am giving one to the House this evening that we will monitor the impact of this legislation and the changes. If changes and issues arise, I will deal with them in the appropriate way.  The Supreme Court judgment did not make a general finding that the payment of a widower's or widow's pension was in respect of children. Mr. Justice O'Donnell did, however, note:  Furthermore, WCP is increased when there are dependent children, and quite substantially. This is not in any sense to suggest that, as a matter of law, WCP is a payment to or for the children. It is an established principle in the field of social welfare more generally that the payment is made to the beneficiary ... and may be used by them for any purpose.  The Supreme Court did not make findings on the definition or the protection of different types of families. We are addressing one very serious anomaly through this legislation. To continue with other anomalies and not address them, particularly when they have been highlighted, would be wrong as well. As I said, other supports are available in this situation that have been referred to this evening. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I am sorry; what are they? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  We will come to that. I call Deputy O'Reilly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  The Minister referred to universal payments, which are available to everybody. I am not sure they cover what we are looking for. He said he will review the impact of the changes. He has given that commitment in this House. Will he also commit to publishing that review? From my perspective, I will submit a case. There are cases that exist. We will submit cases that will be excluded from this and excluded unfairly. It is our intention to forward those cases to the Minister for examination.  I spoke to one woman who was six months pregnant when she was bereaved. I am glad that the Minister has an answer for me on that because she is concerned that she might potentially be excluded in some way, shape or form. We have highlighted to the Minister what we believe - I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - to be the unintended consequences of this for children. The judgment related to children and the judge did refer specifically to children. My concern is that a category of child will be created that will be excluded. That is not a good thing. I will certainly forward cases to him for examination in which I believe people will be treated unfairly as a result of this. I would appreciate his answer in relation to the woman who was bereaved when she was six months pregnant. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  Amendment No. 1 is different from the others in that it is asking for due diligence to be done before a Bill is brought in. It should be the norm. The Minister is acting as if it is unusual to ask for a report on the impact of a Bill. He should have done that previously. TDs from Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael and other TDs will troop into the House tonight without having a clue what they are voting on. We had a briefing yesterday and most of them acted very shocked. They will line up and presumably go with the party Whip, but people down the line will go to claim this and then ask them why they voted for it. I would not be too quick to do so if I were them.  The other issue is marriage. Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael are the two parties in particular that wax lyrical about marriage, how important it is and what a central place it has in the Constitution. In fact, they are actually taking away one of the many reasons people get married, namely, that the other person will be looked after if anything happens, legally, financially and so on. If they separate, they usually make a separation agreement. The Government is throwing that out the window.  I want to mention the O'Meara judgment.  I will not say \"lying\", but the Government is absolutely fooling people because in the O'Meara judgment the Chief Justice placed an emphasis on \"the rights of all children, and obligations of their parents, irrespective of the status of their parents.\" The Chief Justice made it very clear. He highlighted the importance of this pension in addressing the financial impact the death of a parent may have on families. He was absolutely adamant that there should be equal treatment of all the people affected. The Government has decided to make this cost neutral, but that is basically to include a group and take out another group. We are going to see litigation in the future. It is very hard to see why people would not litigate, especially people who have children and then see other people who are cohabiting and do not have children, something I would fully agree with. It is completely unbalanced. It is very disappointing that the Minister has not listened to the professional organisations or to the Opposition. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I just want to clarify what I said. If my constituent's partner had died in December 2024, she would have got that payment from then on. Because he died in December 2021, she will of course be able to apply for the payment and I welcome that but she will not get it because it was in 2021 and, therefore, it is not backdated. My point is that the date should not matter, but it is going to matter. I do welcome the difference this payment will make to her and to others, although I want to reiterate what my colleagues have said about amendment No. 1. It is very important. The judge was very clear with regard to children, and that is what this is supposed to be about. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dara Calleary  This is an area the Leas-Cheann Comhairle has also expressed an interest in. On Deputy O'Reilly's comment about the lady whose partner passed away while she was expecting, we have based the qualifications on the 2010 civil partnership Act and the issue from the Department of justice. I am writing to the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, to highlight this case and also on the points reflected in Deputy Wall's amendment, which was ruled out of order, in relation to civil partnerships outside the jurisdiction. I have just highlighted those two issues to the Minister and asked him to consider them in the context of any review of the 2010 Act he may be planning. Both cases that were highlighted are stand-out cases that grabbed me. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle was also in touch with me about a similar case. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I move amendment No. 2:  In page 5, between lines 21 and 22, to insert the following:   \u201cReport   3. The Minister shall, not later than 3 months after the passing of this Act, make a report in writing to each House of the Oireachtas on the estimated number of persons affected and the estimated savings to the Exchequer achieved by the provisions of sections 4 and 8 to the effect that an entitlement to a pension under this Act can arise no earlier than 22 January 2024.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put and declared lost."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, have been ruled out of order. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendments Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, not moved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 7, 8 and 14 are related and may be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I move amendment No. 7:  In page 8, to delete lines 4 to 8.  To be fair, this definition is really only relevant as a test of whether the couple was living together in an intimate relationship. It is related and consequential to the other amendments, and those ones which were, unfortunately, ruled out of order. I look forward to hearing the Minister's rationale on this. Given that it is related to the other amendments, I am happy to discuss it and hear from the Minister. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  Like Deputy O'Reilly, I am prepared to listen to what the Minister might say in reply. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dara Calleary  I thank Deputies O'Reilly and Wall. I do not propose to accept amendments Nos. 7, 8 and 14. To accept them would remove the ability of any future Minister for Social Protection to make regulations to clarify the circumstances where a couple may be living apart for more than two years due to medical circumstances. This definition is linked to the regulation-making power inserted into section 123A of the Act, for the Minister to consider time spent living apart due to medical reasons as not bringing the relationship to an end. The normal provisions in the Bill are designed to apply where a couple are effectively separated but have not formalised the breakdown of the relationship after two years by either divorce or judicial separation or dissolution in the case of a civil partnership. This reflects current legal practice in family law and in other cases where relationships have broken down. This is a belt-and-braces provision to ensure there is no doubt in a case where a couple are living apart because one of them is in a medical institution, for instance, a nursing home. The relationship still exists and, consequently, there should be no loss of eligibility for a couple in this scenario. The removal of this definition would impact on the operation of the ability to prescribe such circumstances.  There were discussions before the joint committee recently to the effect that the underlying provisions would give rise to an interrogation into the nature of a married relationship at the time of death. Once again, I assure the House that this is not the case. These provisions are designed to apply where a couple are effectively separated but have not formalised the breakdown of the relationship after two years by either divorce, judicial separation or the dissolution of a civil partnership.  My Department will not be seeking proof that a married couple were in an intimate and committed relationship at the time of death. Applicants will be asked whether they were still living with their spouse at the date of death, and nothing further, unless there is evidence to the contrary. This means that a couple who are no longer living together in an intimate and committed relationship would not be entitled to the payment. The provisions in the Bill set down how these matters are defined, based on existing family law legislation for where a marriage has broken down, which includes the fact that a couple can live in the same dwelling but no longer be in an intimate and committed relationship. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  Could I get clarity on what the Minister said? He said that it will be accepted that a couple are living together, which is welcome, but then he said \"unless there is evidence to the contrary\". That then brings in the test. I am happy to be corrected if I misheard him. It is fine and appropriate if the Department is going to accept their word but what the Minister just said is slightly different to what was said in the committee, namely, \"unless there is evidence to the contrary\". Could he explain to us what that would mean and how that evidence would present itself or how it would then be tested? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dara Calleary  If one part of the couple said something different to what had been signed up to, for whatever reason, there would have to be further investigations. I assure the Deputy that I would not want any intrusion into a relationship and the Department does not intend to intrude. If evidence was presented by a member of the couple that contradicted what the other member of the couple had said, that would have to be checked. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  But what would happen if it was presented by a neighbour? Does the Minister see where I am going with this? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dara Calleary  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I fully respect the intention here but again, I am concerned about the words the Minister used, that is, \"evidence to the contrary\". I accept what the Minister said in the case of a couple but I am asking about a situation where a neighbour is involved. Does the Minister see where I am going with this? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dara Calleary  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I understand the Minister does not think that is going to happen but it is our job to make sure that it does not happen. It is a case of wanting to be sure to be sure \u2013 belt and braces - as the Minister said himself. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dara Calleary  I am pretty sure. It is a standard provision in such legislation. I assure the Deputy that the Department is not going to stick its nose in where that is not necessary. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  This shows part of the problem with the changes the Minister is making to the Bill. When he says that the Department is not going to carry out investigations or be intrusive, I do not mean any offence but the Department does carry out investigations into other aspects of social welfare.  We debated a lot of the issues in the groupings of amendments. I am a bit perplexed as to why the parties of marriage are not in here jumping up and down, parties like Aont\u00fa and Independent Ireland. They have not opened their mouth in this entire debate, which is a bit surprising because this is undermining marriage, if one likes, as per the point about the previous amendment. This was said by FLAC for example. Assurances were given to people before the divorce referendum that there would not be any impoverishment of women. Do Members remember the big threat that was made? I remember the divorce referendum. It was said that women would be turfed out of their houses. We have an example of that now. Somebody who may have been abandoned, for example, a victim of domestic violence, who was separated \u2013 perhaps not even by their own choice - but who had children with an individual will be in a much worse situation as a result of this change. The likes of Aont\u00fa and the Christian gang are not even in here making a peep about it. I just thought that was interesting. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment, by leave, withdrawn."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment No. 8 not moved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 9 to 13, inclusive, have been ruled out of order. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendments Nos. 9 to 13, inclusive, not moved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I move amendment No. 14:  In page 11, to delete lines 39 to 42, and in page 12, to delete lines 1 and 2. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment, by leave, withdrawn."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 15 to 17, inclusive, have been ruled out of order. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendments Nos. 15 to 17, inclusive, not moved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 18 to 20, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together. Amendments Nos. 19 and 20 are physical alternatives to amendment No. 18. Amendments Nos. 18 to 20, inclusive, may be discussed together. Is that agreed? Agreed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I move amendment No. 18:  In page 13, to delete lines 3 to 41, and in page 14, to delete lines 1 to 5.  Again, like with amendment No. 7, I would like to get the Minister's comment on the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dara Calleary  I thank Deputy Wall for the amendment. Amendments Nos. 18 to 20, inclusive, are grouped together. I do not propose to accept these amendments, which are possibly irrelevant owing to other related amendments being ruled out of order.  I wrote to Deputies Wall, Quaide, Coppinger and O'Reilly on this issue after Committee Stage. There are provisions in the Bill removing the eligibility of divorcees to the bereaved partner's contributory pension. The legislation adopts the policy whereby, insofar as possible, an individual has an entitlement to a bereaved partner's contributory pension on the basis of one person only. As I stated, this is being done in an attempt to treat each cohort equally, as far as is possible. That means eligibility for the bereaved partner's contributory pension would end upon divorce, similar to the loss of eligibility due to remarriage or on becoming a qualified cohabitant again. The Bill contains a saver clause within the legislation for anyone affected by the rule changes who is already in receipt of the payment.  The effect of this amendment will be to remove the saver provided for divorcees already in receipt of pension before enactment, which would be unfair to those currently in receipt of the payment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment, by leave, withdrawn."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendments Nos. 19 and 20 not moved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I move amendment No. 21:  In page 23, between lines 30 and 31, to insert the following:   \u201cReview of provisions of Act   20 . The Minister shall, not later than 12 months after the commencement of this Act, carry out a review of the operation of this Act, and in particular the impact of the definitions of \u201ccivil partner\u201d, \u201cwidow\u201d and \u201cwidower\u201d in this Act.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put and declared lost."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I move amendment No. 22:  In page 23, between lines 30 and 31, to insert the following:   \u201cReview of provisions of Act   20. The Minister shall, not later than 12 months after the commencement of this Act, carry out a review of the operation of this Act.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put and declared lost."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  As the time permitted for this debate has expired, I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the D\u00e1il of this day: \"That the Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Dara Calleary)  It is important to acknowledge this Bill came about as a result of Mr. Johnny O'Meara and his family in memory of his partner and their mum, Michelle Batey. I thank Mr. O'Meara and Deputy Alan Kelly who stood and worked with him along with other organisations throughout this process. I thank all Deputies for their contributions to this debate and look forward to bringing the Bill to the Seanad. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Social Welfare (Bereaved Partner\u2019s Pension and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025: Report and Final Stages"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_37","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/34","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/34\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Second Stage (Resumed) (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Second Stage (Resumed)","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I must now deal with a postponed division relating to Second Stage of the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025, taken on Thursday, 26 June 2025. On the question, \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time\", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Second Stage (Resumed)"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_42","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/34","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/34\/dail\/motion\/referral","houseCode":"dail","stage":"motion","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Referral to Select Committee (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Referral to Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_42","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I move:  That the Bill be referred to the Select Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration pursuant to Standing Orders 103(2)( b ) and 188(1). "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Referral to Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_43","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2024\/90","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2024\/90\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Transparency and Social Value in Public Procurement Bill 2024: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members] (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Transparency and Social Value in Public Procurement Bill 2024: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_43","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell on 26 June 2025: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\""},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To delete all words after \u201cThat\u201d and substitute the following:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u201cDail Eireann resolves that the Transparency and Social Value in Public Procurement (Bill 2024) be read a second time this day 24 months, to allow for consideration of the complex legal issues in the Bill and how they interact with the Companies Act 2014 and the EU\u2019s eForms (electronic procurement notices) Implementing Regulation; and also to allow for the European Commission to have completed its revision of the Public Procurement Directives, which the Commission have timetabled to commence in early 2026; and for such considerations to be taken into account in further scrutiny of the Bill\".\""},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, Deputy Emer Higgins)"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I must now deal with a postponed division relating to Second Stage of the Transparency and Social Value in Public Procurement Bill 2024, taken on Thursday, 26 June 2025. On the question, \"That the amendment to the motion be made\", a division was claimed, and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Motion, as amended, agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Transparency and Social Value in Public Procurement Bill 2024: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_48","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"GPO and Moore Street Regeneration as a 1916 Cultural Quarter: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_48","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh on Tuesday, 1 July 2025:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the sacrifice of the men and women of 1916, who fought and died in the General Post Office (GPO), Moore Street, across Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland, so Ireland may be free;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the status of the GPO as a national monument, the headquarters of the 1916 Easter Rising, and the place where the Irish Republic was proclaimed on Easter Monday, 24th April, 1916, and defended in arms in the following days;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the central role of the GPO in delivering postal services to the people of Dublin for over two hundred years, since it opened in 1818, as an early home from 1928 of 2RN, which pioneered broadcast media in Ireland and evolved into RT\u00c9, and as the historic heart of a communications network connecting communities across the nation; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the consistent, widespread and negligent destruction of Ireland's republican revolutionary history presided over by successive Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Governments;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"expresses:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 dismay at the failure to deliver the promised 1916 Commemorative Centre at 14-17 Moore Street, nine years after it was meant to open for the centenary of the Easter Rising; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 alarm at the plans announced by An Taoiseach Miche\u00e1l Martin this past week, to turn part of the GPO into retail and office components;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"agrees that any plan involving the GPO must include the entire 1916 battlefield site, of which it forms a part, and that therefore, Ministerial consent must not be given to the current plan by the private developer Hammerson, which would demolish much of the Moore Street 1916 battlefield site around the National Monument 14-17 Moore Street, and the promised 1916 Commemorative Centre at 14-17 Moore Street must proceed without further delay; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"calls on the Government to ensure that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the GPO remains in full public ownership and control, and that no part of it be made available for private commercial profit;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the GPO continues as a public office of An Post, a function it has fulfilled since its construction, and its reconstruction following the 1916 Rising, and which it still fulfils successfully today, enhancing O'Connell Street and the North Inner City;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Moore Street in its entirety, including the terrace at 10-25 Moore Street, should be conserved, and sensitively developed as a cultural historic quarter, cherishing its 1916 Rising heritage and its street-trading tradition, in line with the vision of the Moore Street Preservation Trust;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 no more of Ireland's republican heritage is allowed be subject to wanton destruction for private profit, and that the full heritage and cultural potential is honoured and realised; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Ceathr\u00fa Chult\u00fair 1916 Bill 2021, is enacted without delay."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following amendment No. 1 was moved by the Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\"notes:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the ongoing commitment of this Government to honouring the men and women of 1916;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the hugely successful and inclusive Decade of Centenaries programme, and the Government's investment in key capital projects in that regard, including the seminal 1916 Museum and Exhibition at the General Post Office (GPO), and the purchase by the State of the National Monument at 14-17 Moore Street; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 its affirmation of the status of the GPO as the headquarters of the 1916 Easter Rising, and the site at which the Proclamation of the Republic was read on Easter Monday, 24th April, 1916;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"acknowledges the central role the GPO has played since 1818 in delivering postal services, and its historical significance as an early home for the predecessor of RT\u00c9, 2RN;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"recognises the enduring role of the GPO as a hub of communication, connecting communities across the country;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"further notes:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government has approved the overall approach as outlined by the Interdepartmental Group on the recommendations of the proposed Roadmap for Delivery: Dublin City Taskforce Report;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the accelerated delivery of several landmark capital projects in Dublin's core area, forming part of a broader strategy to drive urban regeneration and sustainable development as a result of the work of the Interdepartmental Working Group and the Dublin City Taskforce;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that this commitment will be reflected in the review of the National Development Plan (NDP) and aims to help build delivery momentum across priority projects;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the NDP 2021-2030, published in 2021, included the GPO redevelopment and clearly sets out the intentions relating to the GPO that the building will remain in public ownership, and the rich cultural heritage of the building will be preserved through continued operation of the historic post office and the museum on the ground floor, and, sympathetic to development elsewhere on O'Connell Street, the upper floors will be refurbished to provide office accommodation for civil servants; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that a detailed proposal for the future use of the GPO will be developed by the Office of Public Works (OPW), and submitted for approval by the Government in due course, and it is acknowledged that there will be a need to consult on design, and that the consultation would be wide ranging given the emblematic importance of the GPO, not only to Dubliners but also to the public all over Ireland;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"endorses the intention to reflect the national historical and cultural significance of the GPO in any development plans, creating a dynamic and respectful reuse of a key historical civic landmark; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"furthermore, notes:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the acquisition by the State of the National Monument at 14-17 Moore Street;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the significant stabilisation and weathering works undertaken by the Government to preserve and save the buildings from further deterioration, and, in particular, the preservation works relating to the historic tunnels;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the extensive engagement with relevant stakeholders, including political parties, through, inter alia, the work of the Moore Street Advisory Group and other fora; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the more recent progress made by the OPW on the restoration and conservation of the National Monument at 14-17 Moore Street.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Debate resumed on amendment No. 1 to amendment No. 1:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To insert the following after \"restoration and conservation of the National Monument at 14-17 Moore Street\":"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\"; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"commits to:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 respecting the heritage and legacy of the leaders of 1916;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 ending the destruction of key National Monuments such as the O'Rahilly Home and Moore Street;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 implementing the Moore Street Preservation Trust plan for Moore Street;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 developing the GPO as a national cultural museum of the national struggle for independence; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 purposing part of the GPO to pursue implementation of the Proclamation of the Irish Republic across the 32 counties of Ireland.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn)"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding GPO and Moore Street Regeneration as a 1916 Cultural Quarter. On Tuesday, 1 July 2025, on the question, \"That the amendment to the amendment to the motion be agreed to\", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"GPO and Moore Street Regeneration as a 1916 Cultural Quarter: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_61","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Nursing Homes: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_61","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Marie Sherlock on Wednesday, 2 July 2025:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 investigative journalism by RT\u00c9 has again exposed distressing and unacceptable practices and conditions in private Irish nursing homes, 20 years on since the Leas Cross scandal;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the failure of the State to provide sufficient public long term residential care places has led to the growing privatisation of nursing home care, while the State picks up the majority of costs through the Fair Deal scheme;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 30 per cent of nursing homes were privately owned 20 years ago, rising to nearly 80 per cent now, with Emeis Ireland one of the largest operators, with 27 nursing homes;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 research by the Economic and Social Research Institute, since the Covid-19 pandemic, outlines the consolidation of the sector into larger operator groups, and the decline of independently owned, family run nursing homes;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 there are serious shortcomings in the inspection and enforcement regime by the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA), with inadequate regulatory oversight, ambiguity in the application of existing powers, and a lack of appropriate powers beyond the power to stop admissions or remove a license;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 there are no minimum staffing levels required in nursing homes, or binding guidance provided to operators;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 there is no sectoral pay agreement in place, and the 2023 PwC report entitled \"Challenges for Nursing Homes in the Provision of Older Persons Care - Private and Voluntary Nursing Home Sector\", documents a staff turnover rate in the private nursing home sector of up to 38 per cent for nurses, and 54 per cent for healthcare assistants; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Ombudsman's Wasted Lives: Time for a better future for younger people in Nursing Homes report, updated in 2024, documents that over 1,200 people under 65 remain in nursing homes due to a lack of appropriate alternatives;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"recalls that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the French parent company of Emeis Ireland, formerly known as Orpea, required a State-led bailout in 2022, after the publication of Gravediggers, a book exposing the mistreatment of care residents, where the company maximised its profits and dividends to shareholders, based on a complex strategy of drastic cost cutting and the maximum use of public funding; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Law Reform Commission published a comprehensive report on A Regulatory Framework for Adult Safeguarding in April 2024, and the Programme for Government commits to a new national policy in the health and social sector;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"recognises that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the nursing home sector has become dominated by big business, and a for-profit model will not provide the standard of care demanded by families and carers;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 with an increased role for home care support for older persons in future years, the profile of nursing home patients will become more complex, more dependent, and in need of greater levels of specialised care in the future;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 increased powers and resourcing for HIQA alone will not resolve concerns about a profit-led model of care;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Covid-19 pandemic exposed the vulnerability of residents in private nursing homes; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Commission on Care for Older People is examining the provision of health and social care services and supports for older people; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"calls on the Government to:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 take clear steps to ensure the State takes over the 27 nursing homes controlled by Emeis Ireland;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 prioritise the quality and safety of care of older persons in overhauling how nursing homes are funded and regulated, and provide HIQA with stronger enforcement powers;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 fundamentally reform the Fair Deal funding model for nursing homes \u2013 public, private and voluntary, starting with an end to the individualised negotiation process between the National Treatment Purchase Fund and provider, the introduction of service level agreements, ringfencing of funding for labour costs, and the introduction of specific rules relating to the control of the nursing home property and operating company;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 legislate to ensure minimum safe staffing levels, and implement the outstanding recommendations in the Covid-19 Nursing Homes Expert Panel report, and the 2022 Report of the Strategic Workforce Advisory Group on Home Carers and Nursing Home Healthcare Assistants;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 require nursing home operators, in receipt of public funding, to recognise trade unions and engage in collective bargaining, to ensure competitive rates of pay, terms and conditions;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 ensure nursing home operators provide professional development education for staff within working hours, including mandatory safeguarding, infection prevention and control, and dignity at work training;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 limit all new nursing homes operations to 84 beds, and set out a schedule for all existing nursing homes to transition to an agreed appropriate size with HIQA;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 ensure the revised National Development Plan includes a funded programme to develop new public long term residential care, through community nursing homes, to meet the needs of our aging population;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 implement the Law Reform Commission report, by passing the required legislation as a priority in the autumn and establishing an independent national agency;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 introduce a new Fair Deal for care by implementing the long delayed statutory Home Support Service for Older People scheme, to support older people to age positively in their own home and community;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 adequately resource the home care sector, to deliver more care in the community and introduce a Fair Deal one-stop-shop, to support families and reduce red tape; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 finally implement the recommendations of the 2021 Ombudsman's Wasted Lives: Time for a better future for younger people in Nursing Homes report, and commit to fully funding the under 65s programme office."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\"recognises that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 a national policy on adult safeguarding will be introduced for the health and social care sector, as set out in the Programme for Government, and this policy will commit to the development of adult safeguarding legislation for the sector, including nursing homes, and will build on the range of existing legislation, policies, and procedures already in place in the sector for preventing, reporting, and responding to abuse;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 a framework for safe nurse staffing and skill mix will be developed for nursing homes, and this framework is a systematic, evidence-based approach to determine the number of nurses and Health Care Assistants required to provide safe and quality care, based on patient need\/dependency; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the remaining provision, Section 68 of the Patient Safety (Notifiable Incidents and Open Disclosure) Act 2023, will be commenced, providing additional powers for the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA)\/Chief Inspector with regard to serious patient safety incidents in nursing homes, and the Chief Inspector will have the power to carry out a review of an incident which may have caused an unintended or unanticipated death or serious injury to the patient, and which occurred in the course of the provision of care to that patient;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 a review will be established of the effectiveness of the Chief Inspector's inspection and monitoring processes, and this review will include such elements as how to further strengthen the monitoring of leadership, culture and governance in designated centres, how to better capture indicators of staff culture and other areas of service delivery, which is critical for safe and good quality support for residents;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 a plan for additional public nursing home bed capacity will be published, and the Department of Health, alongside the Health Service Executive, is currently developing a new public long-term residential care additional capacity plan, which will be published in 2025, and the delivery of additional public long-term residential care capacity is required to deliver on Programme for Government, Sl\u00e1intecare, and Project Ireland 2040 commitments;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 new design standards for long-term residential care settings for older people across all sectors will be created, describing what good building design looks like for long-term residential care settings for older people, and providing a common benchmark against which the standard of these settings can be measured, and the Department of Health report entitled 'Design Guide for Long-Term Residential Care Settings for Older People Public Consultation Report', was published in January 2025;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 ownership structures will be reviewed to enhance transparency and strengthen accountability in the long-term residential care sector, and carrying out an evaluation of the implications of complex corporate ownership structures against current regulatory powers will identify opportunities for regulatory reform;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government has reiterated its well-established commitment to the development of the statutory home care scheme in the 2025 Programme for Government, and the first element in delivering this is the Health (Amendment) (Licensing of Professional Home Support Providers) Bill 2024, which will establish a licensing framework for professional home support services and provide for regulation by HIQA;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Programme for Government commits to strengthening the nursing home sector, by increasing funding for the Nursing Homes Support Scheme, also known as Fair Deal, while investment in Budget 2025 was \u20ac67.6 million, and this followed on from an increase in 2024 of \u20ac45 million; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government established an independent Commission on Care for Older People, which is charged with examining the provision of health and social care services and supports for older people, and with making recommendations to the Government for their strategic development, including long term residential care; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"further notes that from 2021 to 2025, the Government provided funding of \u20ac21.4 million, to enable people under the age of 65 to transition to an alternative community-based placement and provide in situ supports as appropriate.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kieran O'Donnell)"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding nursing homes. On Wednesday, 2 July 2025, on the question, \"That the amendment to the motion be agreed to\", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Motion, as amended, put and declared carried."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar [ www.oireachtas.ie ] ."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 10.43 p.m. go dt\u00ed 8.47 a.m., D\u00e9ardaoin, an 3 I\u00fail 2025."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 10.43 p.m. until 8.47 a.m. on Thursday, 3 July 2025."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Nursing Homes: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2025-07-02"},{"debateRecord":{"date":"2025-07-01","house":{"houseNo":"34","chamberType":"house","houseCode":"dail","committeeCode":"","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","showAs":"34th 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\u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-06-17T02:09:28+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2025-05-08","counts":{"contributorCount":131,"divisionCount":0,"debateSectionCount":52,"questionCount":54,"billCount":0},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Road Network","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_3.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  What measures is the Minister for Transport taking to ensure that regional and national roads in County Kerry are adequately maintained? Has he considered conducting a review into the state of the regional and national road networks, particularly in Kerry? Will he make a statement on the matter? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Transport (Deputy Darragh O'Brien)  I thank the Deputy for his question. I am pleased that the Government has earmarked \u20ac5.1 billion for capital spending on new national roads projects from 2021 to 2030 as part of the national development plan, NDP. For the information of the House, we have commenced our review of the NDP. I will seek additional funds for the capital side of my Department. As it currently stands, a further \u20ac2.9 billion has been earmarked for the protection and renewal of the existing network.  In addition, I can confirm that approximately \u20ac600 million of Exchequer capital funds were provided to Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, for national roads in 2025. Kerry County Council received \u20ac10.2 million for protection and renewal of national roads and \u20ac3 million for the construction of new national roads from this overall allocation. The protection and renewal budget will allow for the progression of numerous road improvement works, such as pavement renewal and measures to improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians on the national road network in Kerry. Allocations have also been provided to upgrade the N86 between Tralee and Dingle, and, as the Deputy knows, to continue the development of the N22 Farranfore to Killarney project. A number of new national roads projects, which are included in the current NDP have been delivered, including a bypass of Listowel.  With regard to regional and local roads, each local authority has statutory responsibility, in accordance with the provisions of section 13 of the Roads Act, for the improvement and maintenance of their regional and local roads. Works on those roads are funded from local authorities' own resources and are supplemented by State road grants. Of these grants, the vast majority, approximately 90%, are targeted at the maintenance and renewal of the network with approximately 10% of the remaining funding invested in new roads and bridges.  In 2025, Kerry County Council was allocated \u20ac33.36 million for the maintenance and improvement of their regional and local roads network, which is an increase of more than \u20ac3.2 million, or 10.7%, on its 2024 allocation. Of this, \u20ac28 million was allocated to road protection and renewal. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  I thank the Minister for the reply. There is a danger with Government announcements and there was such an announcement on 28 March. Those announcements often include a boast about funding but when the details are checked, it does not seem that there is enough there and there is no delivery. Many people feel they are only being codded. While I recognise that some progress has been made, the reality is that progress has been too slow.  The Minister mentioned the N86. It came up recently at a meeting of Kerry County Council that all that will be done for the N86 will be the provision of some extra fencing. There is money allocated for fencing on that road.  There are other issues in Kerry. I am regularly contacted by constituents about Listry Bridge, which is on one of the main tourist routes in the county between Killarney and Dingle. This very busy tourist route suddenly narrows into one lane over a bridge. There have been multiple collisions on that bridge over the past few years. There are also concerns about the tightening of the road in Fossa. It seems there is good funding available in the plan but delivery on the ground is causing concern. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  In respect of Listry Bridge and other specific issues in the Deputy's constituency, we will take a note as he raises them. I assure him that the figures I have given are real. There are significant increases in funding for new roads and for maintenance and renewal. I agree with him that speedy delivery is key.  The funding provided for the N86 from Tralee to An Daingean is not just for fencing. A total of \u20ac1.25 million will be available in 2025 and it would want to be a very expensive fence if that were all we were doing. I assure the Deputy that is not all that we are doing.  As I mentioned, we are advancing the review of the NDP and hope to have it concluded by July or early August. We will have a significant roads programme for the remainder of this decade and 2026, in particular. I can see the funding that is coming along the way. I agree that delivery is key and critical. We want those improvements delivered and our budget expended, which I predict it will be. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  There are concerns among engineers in Kerry. One concern is that they had tender documents available for the bridge near Glenbeigh National School and between Ballinclare and Ballinasare on the Dingle road. Tender documents were available and all the work was done but suddenly the funding that was believed to be available was cut.  I also raise the issue of local improvement schemes, LIS. As far as I can tell, their funding has been slashed for 2025. I raised the matter with the Deputy's colleague, the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Calleary, in March but am still waiting for an answer. People from all over Kerry, including Listry, Asdee, Ballyconry and Dromod, have raised the issue. It seems there was kite-flying by local Government-supporting Ministers. It seems that funding has been slashed by 52%. When we received the figures, the allocation for 2024 and 2025 was \u20ac2.6 million, but the 2024 spend was \u20ac1.7 million. When we subtract one figure from the other, we are left with \u20ac821,000, which is a decrease in funding. Will the Minister confirm there was a decrease for LIS roads? What was the thinking behind that? Another version of events has been given to the people of Kerry. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  The LIS falls under the remit of the Minister for Rural and Community Development. It does not fall within my Department.  I have given the funding figures and have used Kerry as a good example. We are looking at a 10.68% increase in funding for roads this year. There is a total allocation of \u20ac33.36 million for maintenance and improvement, which is on top of the funding for new roads. That is significant.  There is always more to do. We have the plan of work programme. The Deputy might ask the engineers in Kerry what they are referring to when they say tender documents have not been submitted because a project was cut. We have not cut any projects. In fact, we must prioritise projects. Much of the work in respect of the allocations for this year was concluded late last year. We are looking at schemes and the key will be what can be delivered. We will certainly be looking at that in detail for the 2026 allocations. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Road Network"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Departmental Policies","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_4.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  I raise the issue of aviation policy. Will the Government consider reviewing aviation policy in light of the fact that aviation policy has not been reviewed since 2015? I raise the matter in particular as a member of the cross-party Shannon Airport Oireachtas group. Shannon Airport is one of the most underused pieces of infrastructure in the State and we need to make much better use of it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I thank the Deputy for the important question. A number of Deputies have asked about national aviation policy. We are dealing with the 2015 national aviation policy, NAP. It established a policy framework for the development of the aviation sector in Ireland, which is critical. It is designed to create an environment that encourages the sector to enhance Ireland's connectivity, to foster the growth of aviation enterprise and maximise the contribution of aviation to Ireland's sustainable economic growth and development.  While the principal goals of the 2015 NAP remain valid, and it continues to guide decision-making, my Department has commenced preparatory work, at my request, on a review of the NAP with a view to bringing forward a new NAP. We will be engaging with the transport committee on that policy. The review will update existing policy in the context of developments in the sector in the period since 2015. Much has changed since then.  The Deputy referenced Shannon Airport, where we are seeing good growth. I agree with him that there is headroom and more capacity there. Shannon Airport can take up to 10 million passengers. In 2024, there were 2.1 million passengers. We are projecting approximately 2.21 million this year. It is also good to see significant growth in Cork Airport and all our other airports. We are seeing further growth in Ireland West Airport and the airports in Kerry and Donegal.  The update of our NAP is critical. The work has commenced. There will be detailed stakeholder engagement. Importantly, there will also be engagement with transport spokespeople across the House and with the Joint Committee on Transport. There is a fair bit of work to be done and I do not expect this to be concluded this year. I want input. We need to grow connectivity. As a country, we are successful in the whole area of aviation. We need to see how we can update that further. I agree with the Deputy that the policy needs to be updated. We have started the work and I am happy to engage specifically with the Deputy on the matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  I thank the Minister and tentatively welcome his reply. I am from the west of Ireland, as is the Minister of State sitting beside the Minister, and Shannon Airport is critically important to us in the mid-west. It is not something I agree with, but we know that the Government is going to try to lift the passenger cap. It is a fact of life. We need to gain some additionality for regional airports. Will the Minister look at expanding the regional airports programme to allow access to airports such as Shannon Airport? It is a matter the CEO of the Shannon Airport Group, Ms Mary Considine, has raised and will raise again when she meets the Minister. We need to wean the country off Dublin Airport, although not in terms of the key point-to-point connectivity. At the moment, there are 16 flights per week from Dublin Airport to Amsterdam Airport Schiphol. We could do with two flights per week from Shannon to Schiphol. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I had a good meeting with the Shannon Airport Group. It was one of the first meetings I had when I took over as Minister. The group has raised the issue of regional airports and how it might be able to access funding. There is a passenger cap to access that funding at the moment but we are considering that. Shannon Airport can stand on its own two feet. It is doing very well. We need to encourage airlines to use the other airports. We have been clear, however, that the Government cannot direct an airline to fly out of any airport. The airports need to be competitive and hungry for business, as I know Shannon and Cork airports are. The passenger growth at Cork Airport has been significant.  I might come back to the Deputy on the passenger cap during my supplementary response. We have committed to working with stakeholders to remove the passenger cap at Dublin Airport. That commitment was included in the programme for Government. However, that will not happen instead of anything else. We need to consider how to grow all our airports. There is capacity in Shannon and Cork airports that should be used.  I have met with DAA officials, who operate Cork and Dublin airport and I have also met with Shannon representatives. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  It is not about being anti-Dublin or anti-Dublin Airport. It is about giving us more options outside of Dublin, both in the mid-west and Cork, to avoid having to travel up the motorway to fly to key European destinations. I welcome the fact the Minister said he will examine the regional airports programme. While Government cannot force airlines to fly from a particular airport, it can create policy levers and incentives to make it more attractive for airlines to fly out of the likes of Shannon, Kerry and Knock airports. That really needs to be examined. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  Looking at where we came from, there was 7% year-on-year growth between 2023 and 2024 in our regional airports. That growth is happening. Shannon is profitable. I do not think anybody is necessarily looking for subsidies or additional funding \u2013 capital funding, maybe - to improve facilities. I want to see more routes flying out of Shannon and Cork and that is happening. There has been about a 17% increase in passenger numbers in our regional airports since 2019. That is good but we can build on it. We have headroom. There is capacity in Shannon and Cork and I would like to see it utilised. The airports need to be hungry for business too. They need to go out and fight for business and for airlines to have additional routes flying out of their airports. Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Ireland West Airport in Knock are all important parts of our infrastructure. Allowing people to fly to other destinations from closer to home makes a lot of sense. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Departmental Policies"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Transport","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_5.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  What efforts is the Minister making to improve the experience of commuters on public transport? The performance of public transport operators is closely monitored by the National Transport Authority, NTA. The Minister previously said on certain routes buses were late and even not turning up at too great a frequency and that the NTA was carrying out a review of the incidents that had taken place. Has that review been completed? Does he have it? There are concerns across the country about the transport system and its difficulties. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I thank the Deputy. The review is not concluded yet. I have not received it. He is right to highlight the importance of the passenger experience. When we think of our public transport system, passengers and customers have to be central to it. Public transport is not just about moving from A to B \u2013 it is a vital service that connects individuals to work, education, healthcare and their communities. That is why I am firmly committed to ensuring our public transport system offers services that are accessible, reliable, affordable and, in particular, safe.  On reliability, we have major infrastructure plans under BusConnects for each of our five cities, as well as introducing improvements to the vehicle location system for the fleet, which will improve the reliability of the real-time passenger information system. That remains a frustration for passengers on some routes. Real-time information is key. We need to see construction start on the BusConnects corridors in Dublin and roll that out to the other cities. Most of those projects are through planning. Three are not subject to judicial review, so we can start them; others are held up and there are objections. BusConnects, particularly in our cities, will be critical to improving the passenger experience.  We are supporting accessibility through our commitment to expand the availability of public transport across the country. This commitment is supported by both international and national frameworks, including the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and our national sustainable mobility policy, which promotes a whole-journey approach to mobility and inclusive access for all. All new infrastructure is designed with accessibility in mind and significant progress has been made in improving accessibility. This year, my Department has increased funding by 67% for the retrofitting of legacy infrastructure to make it more accessible, particularly for those who have additional needs or are disabled and our senior citizens.  Equally important is the safety of passengers and staff across the public transport network. The NTA\u2019s 2024 passenger security report shows that while reported incident rates remain low at 2.2 per 100,000 passenger journeys, incidents are being raised. Even one incident is one too many. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  I thank the Minister for the reply. We have seen that, where services have been provided, the increase in passenger numbers has been up to 50% on some routes. People want services to be affordable, accessible and reliable. I spoke recently to some students from UL who travel up and down to Kerry. On a Friday, the Dublin coach regularly does not turn up and they are left to get the next bus or even the bus after that. What is the Minister doing to address the situation? Is he monitoring the scourge of ghost buses, not only in Dublin but in the rest of the country as well?  In the recent revision of the national planning framework, there was an opportunity to address the infrastructural deficits. As has become the hallmark of this Government, another opportunity was missed because there is no national policy objective to address regional connectivity and transport specifically.  People who want to get public transport up the west from, say, Kerry to Sligo and beyond have to change buses a number of times. Even students, if one bus is late, are punished and have to buy another ticket, even though they are relying on the same Bus \u00c9ireann service to continue on that journey. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I understand that. People need to be certain and sure they can rely on their public transport system. In the main, they are and our public transport operators operate very well. We saw record passenger numbers on public transport last year. People are responding because fares are affordable but there are issues from time to time, particularly in relation to our bus fleet and buses not turning up. That is why I have met the NTA on a number of occasions and charged it with reviewing the phenomenon of buses not turning up. I assure the Deputy that is not just focused on Dublin. To be fair to my predecessor in the previous Government, the availability of public transport in rural areas has been transformed. We need to go further, unquestionably, but we see the success and expansion of, particularly, rural link. The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, will know that well. I have met many of the groups myself. There is a real opportunity to do more but there has been great improvement over the past four or five years and we want to build on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  I have two final questions. First, the last time we debated on Oral Questions I asked the Minister to explicitly rule out public transport fare increases. Has he come to a decision on that?  The second question has been rumbling on since Covid. It seems that in the transport plan, there is a policy to have a food and drinks ban on train services to the west. For people travelling, students, old age pensioners, everyone - even five or six TDs get the train up from the west - they cannot get any food or drink on those trains. The Minister will say it is a matter for Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann but he is Minister for Transport. We have received assurances in recent years. That the tender would be awarded in early 2024 was mentioned. A response from Irish Rail said that though the tendering process was in its advanced stages, the NTA had yet to make a funding decision on it. People get up early in the morning and have to wait four hours without even a glass of water on the train. We received responses in February and May but the service is still not restored. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  On fares, my focus is on investing in our fleet and infrastructure. That will be Government's focus. This five years to the end of the decade can see a step change in our infrastructure. We have seen some significant projects in Ceannt Station, Galway, and Kent Station, Cork. In Waterford, there has been significant investment in a new bus depot and in the train station. We are looking at how we can do that better. Affordability in public transport is key. We have to be mindful of the levels of fares. The decision was made to bring in free travel for five-to-eight-years-olds. We want to see what we can do for students also and there have been fare reductions. I am not ruling out anything because we need to be able to fund investment in our fleet as well.  On the food and beverage matter, I will have to follow it up for the Deputy. I do not have an answer on that. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Transport"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Transport","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_6.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I ask the Minister to introduce a policy to ensure there is no increase in public transport fares until we are at least on track to meet our transport-related carbon emissions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney)  The Deputy is no doubt aware of the considerable amount of research, both domestically and internationally, on what drives increased passenger numbers on public transport. I am happy to report there has been strong growth in passenger numbers in recent years, with numbers trending at plus 9% in 2024 versus 2023. In October 2024, public transport surpassed 1 million PSO passengers a day for the first time ever, with an average of 1 million passenger journeys recorded daily. This growth continues in 2025, with a recent 9% increase in passenger numbers in the last period compared to the same period last year.  The Deputy is right to highlight the importance of ensuring more people are incentivised to make the switch to public transport and also the challenge we face in meeting our transport-related emissions targets. The main drivers are fundamentally around issues such as the availability, frequency and reliability of transport, as discussed earlier. I am pleased to say that progress is being made on each of those issues but, equally, I acknowledge that while the work is well under way, much remains to be done.  On availability, we are rolling out new services across the country under initiatives such as BusConnects in the cities, the town services in the bigger towns and Connecting Ireland in rural Ireland. We need to continue this progress in the years ahead. In terms of frequency, we are supporting the rollout of increased service levels on existing services and ensuring enhanced frequency on new services as they are rolled out. Again, we need to build on this progress in the years ahead. On reliability, we have major infrastructure projects under BusConnects for each of the five cities, as well as introducing improvements to the vehicle location system and real-time passenger information, all of which will improve the reliability of the system. We need to see construction start on those BusConnects corridors in Dublin and roll that out to the other cities too.  Of course, I acknowledge that the affordability of public transport is also important, particularly for certain cohorts of society. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell)  The Minister of State should conclude. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I will come back in with a supplementary reply. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I find it interesting that, literally, the only mention of affordability came in the last sentence of a two-minute contribution, and my question was about fare pricing.  I know we have seen an increase in the number of people using public transport, which is fantastic, but we need to see more of it. Our emissions are stubbornly high in the area of transport and while we have seen a slight reduction, it is nothing like what we need to see. There has been a 6% increase in public transport emissions and as there are a lot more people in Ireland now, that is projected to continue to rise. We need to see a 12% reduction in public transport emissions this year to meet our targets for 2025 but that is clearly not going to happen.  Disincentivising people from using public transport by putting up fares is not the way to do it. We have seen increases in train fares for people in Greystones, Kilcoole, Sallins, Kilcock, Balbriggan and Skerries. That is the wrong way to go about trying to encourage people onto public transport. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  On the last point regarding the increases in some areas, there have also been massive decreases in other areas because the new ticketing and fare system for Dublin has created a fairer way of dealing with this.  To go back to the affordability of public transport, it is important to state there have been many fare changes in recent years. For example, the Government is expanding free child fares and maintaining the young adult student leap card at 50% off, and there is also a 90-minute fare. These are initiatives to try to incentivise people to use public transport, which is happening. However, we also have to ensure that the frequency is put in place. For example, to take the rail line from Athenry to Galway as a typical example, we are putting in a passing loop to make sure we can get additional trains in and out and make the service more frequent. We are trying to do that across the country and there is huge investment happening in Dublin. Improvements are happening all of the time. Public transport is a good news story. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  If the Minister of State were to talk to my constituents in Greystones and Kilcoole, they would not be particularly in agreement with him about public transport being a good news story. They have seen an increase of 30% in their fares and children have seen an increase of 200%. It is very hard to sell that as a good news story to people in those towns, particularly when the train service for areas like Greystones, Kilcoole and further south in Wicklow is essentially a part-time service as we do not have services on the majority of bank holiday weekends.  I also want to mention that the services south of Dublin are due for major disruption on the bank holiday weekend of 2 June, which is the VHI mini-marathon weekend. The majority of women who go into Dublin for that mini-marathon and all of the charities that rely on them will be severely impacted by these service disruptions. I ask the Minister of State to directly contact Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann to ask it to reverse the decision. I understand the need for maintenance but on such a major event weekend, it is ridiculous that Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann is cancelling services south of Dublin. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I understand the Deputy\u2019s frustration in terms of lines having to be taken out of service but that is a health and safety issue for passengers. Maintenance has to be done. I can guarantee the Deputy that no matter what day of the week or hour of the day it is done, it will not suit everybody. It is a reality in public transport. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Tens of thousands of women will be travelling in. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  Absolutely. In general terms, a huge amount of work has been done in the area of public transport, be it BusConnects, Local Link or the train network right across the country. We have a huge amount yet to do. We have to make it more efficient and more attractive. In particular, we have to give young people the experience they need so when they are going out into the workforce, their first project will not be to buy a car but to use public transport, which they have had a good experience of.  I look forward in my ministerial role, with my two ministerial colleagues, to continuing to develop the system, removing the parts of the public transport system that are not working and replacing them with a more efficient system for everybody. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Transport"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Departmental Policies","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_7.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  I ask the Minister to provide an update on the new State aviation policy and also provide more information on the process of the review that he mentioned earlier. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  As the Deputy said, this has already been raised by Deputy Ahern. I am happy to say, first, that we are committed to reviewing and updating the national aviation policy, which will bring about a new policy. That will involve stakeholder consultation. Effectively, we will publish a draft in the coming months. The draft will go out to public consultation and consultation in the House, and I would expect Deputy O'Hara and all interested Members to have an input into that. We have also committed in the programme for government to a new regional airports policy, the regional airports programme 2026-2030, and the preparatory work on that is being done.  That does not stop what we are already doing in the sector. We want to see continued growth in aviation and I have already referenced some of the numbers across all of our airports. We are projecting some 40.39 million passengers for 2025 across all airports, although that is a projection and it comes with a bit of a health warning. That is at or about what it was in 2024. We are seeing growth in our regional airports and we want that to continue. As referenced earlier, we have seen Cork and Shannon grow and the projection for Ireland West is a further increase in passengers.  The national aviation policy needs to support that and we have committed to reviewing, updating and publishing a new national aviation policy. I am very happy to engage with the Deputy and colleagues across the House as we put that new aviation policy together. It will go in front of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport at the appropriate time and I expect the committee will more than likely hold hearings with stakeholders to get their views. This will be a piece of work to be done across the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  As has been said, it is ten years since the State aviation policy was updated so I hope it is something that can be progressed as quickly as possible. The national planning framework, which came before us recently, made very limited reference to the role that the State\u2019s regional airports will play into the future. The development of these airports must be a clear strategic priority, especially in the context of balanced regional growth. When we consider that over 84% of all flights in the State are processed through Dublin Airport, there is clearly underutilisation of our regional airports, which are predominantly in the west and include those at Shannon and Knock.  This means less tourism in the west of Ireland. It means our infrastructure continues to lag behind the rest of the country. I cautiously welcome the comments of the Minister on the review but I ask him to provide a clear timeline on when this will be finalised. We do need the review as soon as possible. It is most important that it rectifies the current imbalance and ensures greater utilisation of these airports. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I cannot give Deputy O'Hara a timeline, and I am not at all being evasive, because we have commenced the preparatory work for the review. There will also be an updating and there is a clear commitment in the programme for Government on updating the regional airports programme. There will be a new programme for 2026 to 2030. This means we would need most of the work concluded this year or by the end of quarter 1 next year. This very much depends on stakeholder engagement and engagement from all members and on how the Oireachtas joint committee operates.  There is capacity in our regional airports and I want to see it used but the Government cannot direct airlines to fly out of other airports. Airlines decide where they fly. Our airports need to be hungry to go after this business also. We saw this in Cork last week, when the Taoiseach and the Ministers of State, Deputies Buttimer and Canney, were there, with regard to a \u20ac200 million capital investment in Cork Airport. We have also seen investment in Shannon Airport to be able to grow its numbers. This is something we want to support our airports to do. It is not one or the other. It is not Dublin Airport or the regional airports. We can grow all of our airports "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  I thank the Minister. I met representatives of Shannon Airport recently. I am also on the cross-party Oireachtas group. Obviously every airport wants more airlines but they also want support in terms of policy from the Minister. They want the State aviation policy to reflect the need to develop regional airports.  I want to raise the issue of bus and rail links to airports, in particular Shannon Airport and Knock airport. It is key to supporting their development. Will bus and rail links to regional airports be considered as part of any review? On this issue, it was raised with me recently that additional Bus \u00c9ireann Expressway services between Galway and Shannon Airport this summer are being outsourced to private operators. Before this decision was made the NBRU in Galway drafted two comprehensive operational plans that would see existing Bus \u00c9ireann resources and personnel deliver these required services but Bus \u00c9ireann has not engaged with the NBRU's proposals and has maintained its decision to outsource the services. Will the Minister outline the Government's view on the privatisation of bus services, especially in the context of the services I have mentioned? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  Public transport connectivity and services to our airports are obviously critical. They are served relatively well. This can always be improved. I would expect it to be part of the input into our national aviation policy. While the existing policy from 2015 needs to be updated, it is not redundant at all. If anything, if we look at the growth in numbers in our airports throughout the regions and focus on our regional airports, particularly over the past five years, it has been significant. New routes are required. I have met the Shannon Group myself. I had a very good meeting with it. I know my colleagues have also met it. It has some specific asks which we will consider as part of updating and reviewing the national aviation policy. Every Deputy in the House and other stakeholders will have an input into it through the Oireachtas joint committee.  With regard to servicing of airports by our bus fleet this is happening now. I am not familiar with the matter raised by Deputy O'Hara relating to Bus \u00c9ireann. If he wants to correspond with me on it I will have at look into it for him. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 6 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Departmental Policies"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Transport","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_9.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  I have already wished the Ministers of State, Deputies Canney and Buttimer, well in their roles but this is the first time I have been here when the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, has been in the Chamber and I want to wish him well. I found him very approachable as a Minister when I was a councillor and I am looking forward to the continuity of service as a TD. What are the Minister for Transport's plans to expand free public transport access for children and will he make a statement on the matter? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.  The National Transport Authority has statutory responsibility for the regulation of fares charged to passengers in respect of public transport services provided under public service obligation, PSO, contracts. Obviously this statutory responsibility supports the implementation of agreed Government priorities.  I assure the Deputy that the Government is committed to delivering an accessible, reliable and affordable public transport system for all our citizens, including children. Under the programme for Government, our commitments include the roll-out of contactless payments, keeping fares affordable and examining the further expansion of free public transport for children.  Specifically, budget 2025 included a measure to extend free child fares on PSO services to children aged five to eight years old. The NTA is working to develop and implement this change, with the new scheme expected to launch in quarter 3 of this year. This targeted initiative is designed to help with the cost of living for families and to encourage children to start using public transport from an early age.  The Government is also continuing funding supports to allow for the continuation of other fare initiatives, such as the 90-minute fare, the young adult and student Leap card, and 20% discounted fares on PSO services, all of which help make public transport more affordable.  Furthermore, the NTA recently introduced a new distance-based zonal fare structure for the greater Dublin area. This move aims to makes fares equitable, more consistent and easier to understand, with significant reductions for many commuting from outer areas, aligning prices more closely with distance travelled. Obviously, I acknowledge that while the new structure is fairer for all, it does mean that some people are now paying a little bit more. I assure the Deputies that I am committed to making public transport as accessible and affordable as possible, while also ensuring that our system remains financially sustainable in the long term. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  I thank the Minister of State for his response. It is good that we have contained in the programme for Government a commitment to expand free public transport for children. It is very welcome that the measure announced in the budget to extend the age from five to eight years and then to nine years of age, will be introduced in quarter 3. There is a certain practicality to all of this. I regularly use the S4 bus route with my seven-year-old and five-year-old. To be fair, the service relies on the honesty of the passenger getting on the bus to identify whether their kid is six, seven, eight or nine years of age. No bus driver looks for ID from nine-year-olds or eight-year-olds. We should face up to the policy, which is that it is a good thing we are giving children of primary school age access to public transport and that it does not cost the State that much. The measure itself in the previous budget cost approximately \u20ac8 million. It is very worthwhile. We know it is a measure that will work well and I look forward to its continued expansion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  As we have discussed, in budget 2025 which was announced last October my colleague, the then Minister for Transport, Eamon Ryan, secured funding to roll out free public transport across our public transport network for children aged under nine. This initiative had a number of purposes. It was aimed at reducing congestion by providing commuters with a cheaper alternative. It was also built around creating the habit of using public transport among young children. Very importantly, in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis it was designed to save commuters money. It builds on the other public transport initiatives the Green Party introduced, which the Minister of State referenced. In 2023 there was a 20% cut to all public transport fares. These were the first cuts since the 1940s. There was also the introduction of the young adult travel card. Will the Minister of State give us a bit more detail on when in quarter 3 he expects to see this new initiative rolled out? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I thank both Deputies. I, too, acknowledge the work done by the former Minister for Transport, Eamon Ryan, in developing and bringing forward more public transport initiatives and services and making them more affordable. I want to acknowledge this in the House. Coming back to the question on quarter 3, I do not have the exact date but I will meet officials and I will come back to Deputy O'Gorman with a date when we have it. It is important to say that universal free transport for all, and not only for those under 18, would require an additional \u20ac786 million in Exchequer funding annually, before considering increased demand. A large amount of money would be required to provide free transport for everybody.  The Government is expanding the child fares, and maintaining new adult fares and the student Leap card 50% off. It is important for students and for young people, as the Deputy said, to get a good experience in terms of reliability, safety and punctuality and to have it at a reasonable price. If we can continue to give that experience to young people, they will continue to use public transport for the rest of their lives. The aim of all these policies is to encourage people to use public transport, take cars off the roads and avoid the congestion. We will have a better society and a better life as well. This comes at a cost and we cannot do it all at once. We have to bring in measures which will be effective, which we can afford and which will be rolled out.  With public transport, we have seen a huge increase in numbers right across the different services. It is good news. It is a good story but we need to continue that to incentivise people. My two colleagues and I will continue to push the policies to make sure we see the results on the ground. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  One of the issues specific to Dublin when it comes to children taking public transport is, of course, the Luas. The Luas is a very busy tram, particularly at peak times. As we have seen, when we expand and invest in the Luas, we grow the passenger numbers. In that context, I would ask the Minister of State to support inquiring into getting the Luas extension from the Point to Poolbeg into the national development plan review. Obviously, the Finglas Luas application has already got planning permission. It is important we demonstrate that there is a continued flow of work that will be made available to the contractors who will ultimately build that extension. It would be excellent for Dublin if, in the context of the national development plan review, we got that Luas extension to Poolbeg included in that as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I thank the Minister of State for his commitment to come back with a more specific date. Now that we are in May, we should be giving commuters specifics in terms of when this funding that has been put aside will be used and when they will get the benefit.  One issue the Dublin Commuter Coalition has raised is whether there be a requirement for identity cards. Generally, identity cards are not used, but if some bus driver or operator decided to insist on them, will children under nine years of age need an identity card to prove their age? The Minister of State might clarify that.  On the wider issue, all Departments are starting to collate their budgets. Is reducing public transport fares a priority for the Minister of State and the Department in this budget? The Minister of State set out the cost for free public transport for everybody. No one is expecting miracles from the Minister of State in this budget, but is he looking to reduce some of the public transport fares in budget 2026? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  Again, I thank the Deputies. I would say, first of all, when we talk about the national development plan, there will be huge competing asks within that plan. Of course, the three Ministers here will be putting forward our best foot in terms of projects within transport, be it roads, public transport or whatever. It is important the Deputies understand that we will be putting in plenty of projects that need to be done which the Department and the officials have been working on.  There is a huge ask within the Department of Transport for funding for capital projects but the capital projects are to enhance our services. If you take Ceannt station in Galway, what is happening in Kent station in Cork and the fact that we are now looking at putting in the passing loop in Oranmore to create additional frequency into Galway city where we have huge problems with traffic congestion, we are doing these works. There is a pipeline of works to be done. The all-island rail review, which was commissioned by the previous Minister, Eamon Ryan, is now the basis for investment in rail across the country.  On Deputy O'Gorman's question about identity cards, I am not so sure we need to be using identity cards. Discretion is there to be used. Nobody should be not allowed onto public transport but, of course, there has to be a limit. Fair play by consumers in the use of the system will keep it viable.  At the end of the day, what we need to do is to take more cars off the road. We need to make sure the public transport is there. The other issue in relation to all of this is that we have residential settlements close to train stations so that you can walk to the train station. If you look at what is happening in Ceannt station in Galway, it is linking the development to the pedestrian accesses around the city which is putting it all together. There is a lot of forward planning going on. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 9 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Transport"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Rail Network","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_10.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  This is to ask the Minister what actions his Department is taking to address capacity issues on InterCity and regional rail services, particularly in the context of increased numbers of people using public transport, as the Minister mentioned. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I thank the Deputy for his question. There is no doubt that the very strong passenger growth in recent years poses some challenges at certain times for the public transport network, including the InterCity rail network.  Like the Deputy, I am eager to see improved rail services rolled out across the network. We know that when people are offered reliable and frequent services, they are more likely to choose public transport. Higher frequency also helps ease capacity issues.  The Government is, therefore, supporting this shift through significant infrastructure investment, which will be critical. This includes funding for key initiatives such as the DART+ programme; the new DART+ fleet, which is being tested in Inchicore and which I expect to be tested shortly on the northern line, in particular; the proposed replacement of the Enterprise fleet; and the introduction of 41 new InterCity railcars.  Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann has experienced strong post-Covid growth in passenger demand, matched by record investment to expand services. Capacity and service delivery continue to be considered in every decision we make.  To meet demand, Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann is deploying all available fleet during peak times. In 2024, 41 additional InterCity railcar carriages were introduced, boosting capacity on key routes, in particular, Sligo, Galway, Westport and Belfast. Its DART+ fleet investment will deliver 185 electric and battery-electric carriages in the coming years, with more planned. We have taken possession of the first order of them. The first units have begun arriving and will enter service in 2026, following testing and approval. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  The issue of overcrowding on services, particularly at peak times in and out of Galway city at stations such as Athenry has been raised with me. I have met Irish Rail to discuss this. For example, we have only two carriages on the first train arriving into Galway city at 8.10 a.m. every day. We have seen serious overcrowding and it has been a safety issue.  As the Minister mentioned, there are new carriages arriving in Dublin. They will not become operational until 2026. Irish Rail has informed me that once these new carriages become operational in Dublin, the diesel carriages that are currently being used there can be moved to regional routes but that will be dependent on the new stock passing testing, etc. There is no real guarantee for commuters experiencing delays and capacity constraints right now that the position will improve. The passing loop at Oranmore will allow for more regular services but that is further down the line. We have a serious issue in the interim. Is the Minister looking at a solution to that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  The new InterCity railcars are being tested right now. We have received them. As the Deputy correctly said, Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann mentioned to him that once they come into use in 2026 additional railcars will then be provided to other routes.  Two carriages on a train at peak times is, I would suggest, insufficient. I am sure the Deputy has raised that specific issue about that train service with Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann. On the basis of the Deputy's intervention here, we will too.  The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, has already referenced in response to previous questions the very significant work that is happening around Oranmore station redevelopment and track works. There will be a new platform and a passing loop at Oranmore station. That was granted planning permission last February and construction is expected to start by the end of this year. That will greatly increase capacity and frequency, in particular, on that service.  It needs to happen. We are being told it will commence by the end of this year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  I welcome the Minister's commitment to raise this issue with Irish Rail. I will also raise the lack of early morning services into the city. As I have mentioned, that first train arrives at 8.10 a.m. Again, there are restrictions with the single track but is that going to be looked at? There are issues with morning services being late. I ask the Minister to engage with Irish Rail on that and on the need for more services later into the evening for commuters returning home.  Will the Government look at fully double-tracking the line from Athenry to Galway? The passing loop at Oranmore is very welcome but it will not future-proof our rail services against increased demand. We have growing towns and villages. If the western rail corridor is to be reopened and if we are to build a proper commuter rail service, we will need full double-tracking. I urge the Minister to progress that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, has direct responsibility for the all-island rail review. I expect that matters such as the double-tracking the Deputy has mentioned will be considered as part of that. On timetables, punctuality and reliability, the management of timetables is a matter for Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann. Where specific matters are raised in questions here, we note them and feed them back to the company. I am sure the Deputy does likewise for his constituents. The reliability of the train service is generally very good across all of our routes. Where issues arise, they certainly need to be addressed. The previous Government embarked on the most significant investment in our rail network across the country we have seen in decades and this Government will accelerate it. It takes time to build that infrastructure. I have already given the examples of Kent Station, Ceannt Station and Waterford. I have visited the rail line at Shannon Foynes Port, which is under construction and being tested right now. Good things are happening. The NDP gives us the opportunity to seek additional capital to do more things. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Rail Network"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Transport","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_11.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  In April of last year, the National Transport Authority awarded a comprehensive framework contract to the Spanish firm Indra Sistemas. This contract is for the design, supply, installation and operation of a new multi-modal ticketing system. Will the Minister give us an update on the roll-out of that scheme? When does he believe passengers will be able to tag on and off using a credit card or phone? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  As Minister for Transport, I have responsibility for policy and overall funding for public transport. The NTA has responsibility for the development of public transport infrastructure including ticketing and technology projects. The next generation ticketing project is very significant and will provide a transformative upgrade to the ticketing system for public transport passengers in Ireland. The project will facilitate a variety of payment methods on public transport services. This will involve a new-generation account-based ticketing scheme that incorporates both mobile and card-based payments for passengers.  As the Deputy outlined in his original contribution, a competitive procurement process was concluded in April of last year. The NTA awarded an overall framework contract for the design, supply, installation and operation of the new multi-modal ticketing system to a Spanish information technology company, Indra Sistemas, which has designed, installed and operated similar systems internationally.  Implementing such a major and complex system across multiple transport operators requires pretty significant co-ordination. The project involves ensuring that all payment processes adhere to the highest security standards to protect customers. Comprehensive cybersecurity verification and testing will be conducted to safeguard the system against potential threats and to ensure that customers are charged correctly. In addition, the operation of the new ticketing system will involve the introduction of new financial management processes and customer support systems and the establishment of maintenance, logistics and operational teams. All of this has to occur while the current ticketing systems continue to operate.  I put all of this on the record because it shows the breadth of work that needs to be done to bring this into operation. The NTA is making great efforts to ensure this transformation and beneficial project for public transport passengers is delivered as effectively as possible. I have asked for target dates for delivery and we are probably looking at the year after next, 2027. That comes with a health warning because the ICT system must be tested to ensure it is robust. This will be transformational for public transport passengers across all transport modes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Notwithstanding the complexity of the problem, I am disappointed that we do not have more clarity as to when we will see the actual roll-out. I know it will take some time but this contract was signed a year ago and I would have hoped that, after a year of preparatory work, the company, the NTA and the Minister would have been able to give us clarity as to when we will actually see roll-out. This is a big project costing \u20ac100 million. It is a lot of State investment. After a year, I believe we are within our rights to expect more clarity as to when we will actually see this. We are a long way behind other European countries. The Leap card is great. I use it every single day. However, if you leave it behind or if you are a tourist or in Dublin on business, not being able to tag on and off with a phone or card is a real disadvantage. That puts us far behind other European countries. I ask that the Minister go back to the NTA to get more clarity on the timeline for roll-out. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I am also very anxious to see this. The Deputy is right; the Leap card is great. That is fine but, if you go to London or other parts of Britain, you can tap on or off with a debit card or credit card, which works fantastically well. When we bring in our system, it will be ahead of those in Britain and most of Europe because it will also involve account-based ticketing. I have asked for a timeline and I have engaged with the NTA. To inform the Deputy and the House, while I do not have an exact timeframe, we are aiming for 2027. In advance of questions this morning, I again met officials last night to try to get a more specific timeline for delivery because this will make a very significant difference to the passenger experience for residents and visitors alike. This is a big project. As the Deputy has said, it is \u20ac100 million of investment. It needs to be done correctly. The Deputy will understand that there are many checks that need to be carried out in advance of the roll-out of the ICT system. Work is well under way. I will come back to the Deputy with a firmer timeline but, to give him an indication, we are looking at 2027. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I understand that a scheme of this scale and complexity will take time but, when you are working with a private sector company, if you do not give it a clear deadline, it will take all the time it can. It is very important that we get that timeline. I am glad to see the Minister is taking such a hands-on approach and has been engaging with his officials on this. He can rest assured that I will be asking him about the issue regularly because it is very important.  Will the Minister talk a bit more about this idea of an account-based system, what that actually means and how it will put us ahead of the approach adopted in the UK? Will people who do not have accounts such as tourists or people who are here on business be able to use this system or will people have to register an account before tagging on and off? An account-based system is good but we also need a system that is flexible for tourists and people who are here on business who just want to use public transport on a once-off basis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I know the Deputy will be raising this issue regularly and he is right to do so because it will make a very significant difference. We will certainly be putting as much positive pressure as possible on to ensure delivery. I will be watching the timeline very closely and, as it becomes firmer, I will keep the Deputy informed. It will not be necessary for someone who is visiting to have an account to tap on and tap off. Account-based ticketing will be very useful for residents. It will allow them to see what is being spent. If you go to England and are tapping on and off with your debit card, you do not see that automatically. This is for residents who regularly use rail, bus or Luas services. It will be across all modes of transport. It is complex. I am not using that word to excuse any delays. I do not envisage delays. As I have told the House, the best date I have for delivery is 2027. We will certainly be keeping a very close eye on this because it will make a very significant difference to customers right across the country. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Transport"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Rail Network","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_12.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Albert Dolan  One of our greatest assets in the town of Athenry is now becoming one of our greatest pain points. Train services into Galway city are wholly inadequate. We need to see significant investment in additional carriages arriving at Athenry.  As mentioned previously, there are only two carriages going in on the first train in the morning. To put it bluntly, people are packed in like sardines. It is a complete disaster and it is very unfair on the people who are using this service. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I thank Deputy Dolan for the question and I share some of his frustration as well, no more than the earlier comments from Deputy O'Hara. I know the Deputy is intensely interested in this issue. As we said earlier, there is no doubt there has been very strong passenger growth in recent years. It does pose challenges at certain times on the public transport network, including on the Athenry to Galway corridor. That has been recognised by Irish Rail. The good news is that a range of measures is being examined to address the issues raised by the Deputy, but to be clear some of these measures have short-term, medium-term and longer-term time horizons so I cannot promise to fix all issues at the one time.  With regard to the short-term measures, last year a revised timetable was introduced that saw an increase in services for Athenry, resulting in total daily services increasing to 39 per day. The changes also increased the number of pre-9 a.m. arrivals into Galway from Athenry from two services to three services every weekday morning. These measures were assisted by the entry into service of 41 additional intercity rail carriages last year, which has helped with capacity issues on the network generally. More, however, needs to be done.  In addition, the upgrade works at Ceannt Station are scheduled to be completed next year. These works, along with the new passing loop at Oranmore station, are vital short-term measures to create additional frequencies getting in and out of the city. Permission was granted in February and construction is expected to commence by the end of this year. These infrastructure projects will deliver additional capacity and efficiency to the rail network.  On medium-term measures, the Deputy is aware that the new DART+ fleet is currently being tested and will begin entry into service over the coming year. While this new fleet is DART-specific it will have a knock-on benefit of allowing the release of existing fleet for deployment elsewhere including from Athenry to Galway. The question of where these are to be deployed is currently being reviewed by the NTA and Irish Rail. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Albert Dolan  I agree that the passing loop is welcome but it points out a huge issue with how we manage infrastructure in this country. Galway County Council was granted urban regeneration and development fund, URDF, funding in March 2021 for that passing loop. It was March 2024 before Irish Rail submitted a planning application for the passing loop. I welcome that it is to commence construction this September. If it has taken three years for Irish Rail to go for a planning application, what does that say about how urgent and how big this issue is in the minds of the country and the State? I want to see increased capacity and increased frequency in Athenry to ensure the people of Athenry who are using public transport and trying to do their bit have a good service they can depend on. I have had reports of people fainting and passing out on the train in the morning. It is genuinely that dangerous. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I share the Deputy's frustration about the length of time it takes to get projects delivered. This Government has been in place for three months. Our mantra is that we are a Government of implementation rather than a Government of strategising and that is the important thing. We will continue to work on that.  The passing loop will be very effective. It will be very important and construction is going to start on that towards the end of this year. I will be putting my shoulder to the wheel with the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, to make sure we get that started at the earliest possible date.  There is long-term ambition in the all-island rail review to ensure that we actually do a lot of passing loops right across the country as well as opening up existing railways again. It is great that we are talking about this because five or six years ago a lot of people were saying that we should be closing the line, especially from Athenry right down to Ennis because nobody was using it. Some 650,000 people are using that now. There is a statement in this that we have additional demand because the services are being provided. In the Department of Transport we are making sure that we not alone meet current demand but that we plan for the future as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Albert Dolan  Absolutely there can be no doubt that the economies of public transport have completely flipped the script over the last few years. We have seen fares come down and the cost of using a car has gone up. It makes more sense for people to use public transport. As the Minister of State well knows, Athenry is a booming town with huge growth potential over the coming years. We need to see a double track line all the way into Galway city. I do not know if this will come through the national development process or the all-island rail review but I seriously think we need to be looking at Athenry as the main connection point to Galway city and ensuring that people have adequate access to that public transport.  Recently we saw the announcement and now construction, with potentially thousands of jobs, of the Dexcom facility in Athenry. Athenry will be a hub and a connection point for the west. It is so important that there are adequate rail and bus services.  I must also raise the point that there is currently no bus serving Athenry into Galway city. Athenry is a town of 5,000 people and I hope the Minister of State would tackle that as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I am aware of the issues the Deputy has raised on the bus connections from Athenry to Galway. I believe a private operator was doing it but it was pulled. Basically I do not disagree with anything the Deputy is saying. It is important first of all that we look at the immediate steps we can take to start improving things, such as the provision of additional carriages and the installation of a passing loop in Oranmore. Double tracking is a more medium- to long-term project. It is part of the all-island rail review that I will be looking at. I am charged with the delivery of that rail review. We have lots of exciting projects on that. We need to just get them prioritised and get those done quickly that can be done quickly. We need to plan for doing the others in a way that ensures there is continuous work. There is no doubt that if we provide the infrastructure for public transport, people will use it. The fares are reasonable. All the time we are trying to get young people to think \"If I am going someplace, I will go on a bus or a train\". If people are living close to a train station, they do not need a car. We need to look at the planning framework for that as well. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Rail Network"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Departmental Policies","counts":{"speechCount":13,"speakerCount":5},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_13.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  We are looking for the new aviation policy to be reviewed. I have heard the Minister say it will be reviewed. I understand that we have to get this right but this clearly needs to be done as a matter of urgency. The Minister has not given us clear timelines on this. Perhaps the Minister could really push this and give us clear timelines. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I propose to take Questions Nos. 13, 51, 90 and 265 together.  A lot of Deputies have raised this matter. There are questions here from Deputies McGettigan, Cathal Crowe, Quinlivan and Pa Daly. It speaks to the importance, which all of us understand, of our aviation sector. Ireland has done extremely well from a connectivity perspective. For example, Dublin Airport is the fifth best connected airport in Europe. Dublin is being used as a hub and people can connect now through the UAE and via all the additional routes into the USA. That is a positive thing.  I referenced earlier the additional capacity we have in our regional airports. Thankfully we have seen quite significant growth in Shannon and Cork airports. A large investment of \u20ac200 million in Cork Airport was announced last week by the Taoiseach.  The national aviation policy that we operate under is the 2015 policy. After ten years it is appropriate that this is reviewed in detail and that we bring forward not just an update but a new aviation policy that would see us good for the next ten years. This is the cycle we are looking at. We have started the work on that. In a response earlier, I mentioned to Deputy O'Hara that we will do a review and an updating of the regional airports' programme for 2026 to 2030. This will encompass aspects particularly in relation to funding and other things we may be able to do there. I am anxious that we do that but I do not want to rush it either. We will need people's input here and we will need the Oireachtas joint committee to input into it also, so I cannot give the Deputies an exact timeline. I am not being evasive; it is just that the work has started. A draft will be prepared and we will publish a draft. I expect there will be input from the Oireachtas joint committee. Stakeholders will want to make an input into that too. What we receive back will also need to be assessed in advance of us actually coming forward with the completed aviation policy. I expect that is probably going to take the rest of this year and into early next year. I would expect that but I do not have a firm timeline on it. We are still growing our airports and the aviation sector. There are new technologies and new businesses coming in as well.  Ireland is highly regarded as a world leader in aviation. That still happens, but this is a process that we need to undertake. I have given a commitment to the House and to the Deputy today. That is something that has commenced and we will be seeking the input of all Deputies to that policy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I understand all of what the Minister has said with regard to what needs to be done. However, I believe the stakeholders would probably say they are already at where they need to be with it, so maybe it could be expedited. Many tourists visiting Ireland travel to the west, and many are brought in by bus. They are brought through Dublin Airport, take a bus to the west and take a bus back up. This is not helping the economy in the mid-west or tourism. It means they do not stay there and contributes to air pollution. In reality, they could have flown directly into Shannon or the west. The positive impacts of regional balance and a national aviation policy will play a part in Shannon Airport. It is a key gateway to the west of Ireland and the Wild Atlantic Way. Shannon Airport plays a vital role in promoting regional development by supporting balanced growth across the country. More regional balance will help ease congestion in Dublin and ensure the economic benefits of international connectivity are served nationwide. It will boost tourism, trade and investment in the mid-west, create jobs and drive local prosperity. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maurice Quinlivan  As my colleague said, these questions focus on when we can see a review. Does the Minister have any idea when the draft review will be done? When will the review be completed? Shannon Airport is one of the regional airports we will be championing. As the Minister knows, Shannon Airport is the gateway to the Wild Atlantic Way. It serves the mid-west region. As we have said in the past, it is the fulcrum of the prosperity that is in the area, and thousands of people are dependent on Shannon Airport. It is a fantastic airport and is under-used. It has the capacity for up to 5 million people but it does not get anywhere near that many, unfortunately. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathal Crowe  I am sorry; I have just run up Kildare Street and did not realise my question was part of a grouping. We want to know when the review will happen. Importantly, when someone applies for a landing slot at the moment, it is solely judged through the metric of \"Yea\" or \"Nay\". It is either approved or disapproved by the IAA. We could have a regional development criterion to that application. It is unfair that 12 flights a day go from Dublin to Schiphol whereas none goes from Shannon. Hopefully the Minister can review this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I thank the Deputy and will let him take a breath. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathal Crowe  A flight from Clare would have made it easier. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  It would have. He could have used the bike.  I have answered the Deputy's colleagues earlier. We are updating the national aviation policy and we will be bringing forward a new one, on which I will need all inputs. The Deputy and his colleagues have regularly championed Shannon Airport. Shannon is a fine airport. I raise the growth in the airport since 2019. In 2019, 1.72 million passengers travelled to Shannon Airport. In 2024, the figure was 2.1 million. We are projecting a further increase this year. The Government does not, and I say this respectfully, direct airlines as to where they go; the airlines choose where they go. I met with the Shannon Airport Group, which has a very good management team. It is very anxious to secure new business. The airports have to fight for that business too. We can support the airport through our investment in it. We will be bringing forward a regional airport programme for 2026-2030. The Shannon Airport Group in particular has put forward some specific asks in that regard, which we will consider. I expect the work on the regional airport programme to be concluded this year.  As I mentioned to Deputy McGettigan, we expect the national aviation policy to be published by quarter 1 of 2026. I do not have a firm timeline on it. It is not something that should be rushed, because this aviation policy will be for the next ten years and we need stakeholder engagement on it. It is an opportunity for us as well to look to see how things can be rebalanced. It is not Dublin instead of everything else. Dublin is the 5th best connected airport in Europe. People generally treat it as a destination as well. Shannon has the capacity to grow and accommodate 10 million passengers. Cork can grow further as well, and we want to see that happen. We want to support the airports in that regard.  The Government is committed as well, in the programme for Government, to the lifting of the passenger cap at Dublin Airport. There has been a stay on that, as the Deputy knows, with the ECJ case. That stay is in place for the remainder of this year, and probably the most of next year. We are working on legislative options in that regard. I use this opportunity in the House to continue to encourage DAA to engage with the planning authorities right now, and to engage in a positive way. Aviation is a major growth sector for us. It is critically important, as an island, that we improve our connectivity in what is an uncertain world. I will be looking forward to all interested parties and Deputies feeding into the national aviation policy and the new plan, which we will bring forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I welcome all that the Minister has said. I know he cannot make airlines land in certain airports, but I am sure he can help make the other airports more viable for these airlines to land in. We would welcome working with him in that regard. We have seen the chaos in Dublin Airport. This is not an anti-Dublin Airport statement at all. We welcome the lift on the passenger cap too, but the regional balance needs to be looked at. It is very unfair to have 86% of flights going out of one airport and not the others. As the Minister said earlier, Shannon Airport has seen an increase of 17%. There is room for a further increase; it can go up to 5 million or 10 million, as the Minister stated earlier. Therefore, we need to work on this together, and work on it soon. It is a matter of urgency. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathal Crowe  I do not know whether it should be a ten-year strategy for aviation given aviation operates on a seasonal basis. So much can change from a winter to spring period. New routes get set up and some get pulled. It would be better to have a five-year plan with a midway review. I was out of breath earlier as I ran up Kildare Street and did not realise this question had been grouped. I make the point that when an airline seeks to operate a brand-new route, it applies to the Irish Aviation Authority for a slot or a permit. When that permit is lodged, it is approved or disapproved in a matter of weeks. However, Project Ireland 2040 is the bible by which this Government has set out its goals for balanced regional development in healthcare, housing and a whole load of other areas and realms. However, there is no reference to aviation in it. It is wrong that Dublin has an 86% dominance in the aviation market and that airports such as Shannon, Cork and Knock are vying for everything else. It is also wrong that there is hub connectivity 12 times a day from Dublin to Amsterdam Schiphol while there is none from Shannon. Putting a regional development clause in that policy would be transformative in terms of bringing more flights to the west of the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maurice Quinlivan  Nobody is asking the Minister to rush the review or to do a review that would not be comprehensive, but as he knows, the last review was done ten years ago. People in the mid-west region and in Mayo and Galway are waiting for what the outcome of that review will be. Shannon Airport, as I said, has the capacity to handle 5 million passengers per year. In 2024, it serviced 2.1 million passengers and, therefore, has the capacity to grow. Four members of the Shannon International Airport Oireachtas Group are in the Chamber today. We met recently with the chief executive of Shannon Airport Group. From that meeting, I can verify that the chief executive and the wider group, as the Minister said, are ready and willing to expand their operations if they can get the supports from the Government. I worked in the travel industry for 19 years; I know we cannot tell airlines what to do. However, as my colleague, Deputy McGettigan, said, we can support the airlines and make it more attractive for them. That has to be what we do. We cannot go on with this situation. We are probably the only country in the world where 80% of the flights from the country go from one airport. That has to change. We have significant capacity for our airports to deal with those issues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  I want to talk to the Minister about the importance of Ireland West Airport, or Knock Airport. I am sure that will be no surprise to the Minister or Ministers of State. I raise the importance of it in terms of the development of the Atlantic economic corridor, particularly the SDZ scheme there. If that is built to its full capacity, it could deliver more than 95,000 sq. m of commercial business and enterprise space and create 4,200 jobs. In the whole geopolitical climate and challenges we are facing at the moment, it is critical that this is done sooner rather than later. I welcome the fact that a project manager was appointed last year, but I ask the Minister for a specific timeline. How does the Government aim to fast-track that development zone in order to enable the further development in the region? Obviously, that includes the western rail corridor, and the connectivity to the airport is hugely important. I know the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, is very familiar with that. I know the Government cannot dictate what flights go where, but will the Minister consider, when talking to Aer Lingus, whether it would be possible for a flight from Heathrow to the west of Ireland to be scheduled on Friday evenings and going back late on Sunday evenings to facilitate all the workers who are commuting to and from London and the region? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I thank Deputy Conway-Walsh for her contribution.  In response to Deputy Crowe, I want to see all our airports grow. I would like to see more flights out of Shannon, Cork and Ireland West. We see growth in all those airports as well as further projected growth this year in Cork, Shannon, Ireland West and Kerry and small growth in Donegal. For the information of the House, I am working on the preparatory work on the PSO for the Dublin-Derry route, which was a commitment in the programme for Government and one which got excellent support from the Taoiseach and the T\u00e1naiste, particularly through the shared island fund. We are working on that. A Dublin-Derry air route in 2026 is a commitment we would like to see delivered. On an all-island and an all-Ireland basis, it is critical. I have engaged with colleagues in the North on that.  I have met with Shannon Group. I have met with DAA, not just on Dublin but on Cork as well. I will meet representatives of the other regional airports shortly to go through their plans.  In response to Deputy Conway-Walsh, I am familiar with the potential investment there and we want to support that as best we can. Looking at the industrial zones or commercial zones around our airports, the on-campus jobs are critical but there are also the indirect jobs. Take Dublin Airport as an example. About 22,000 people are employed directly on campus, with about 135,000 indirect jobs. As airports grow, for every additional 1 million passengers there are about another thousand direct jobs. That is how important aviation is.  I will work with colleagues on this. The cross-party group on Shannon is earnest and very supportive of further growth in Shannon. I will support it in what it needs to do. As Deputy Quinlivan knows and as has been rightly said here, the Government cannot direct airlines where to fly, but I have met with our airlines. I have met with Aer Lingus and Ryanair. I have met with Airlines for America. We have discussions with them as regards Ireland as a whole. We see that Aer Lingus's and Ryanair's commitment to Ireland is very firm. Where it makes sense to add routes, they will, and I encourage them to do that.  As regards regional airports, that piece of work should be finished by the end of this year.  As regards national aviation policy, I take the point made and I am taking a ten-year view. That can be reviewed along the way. It is not set in stone. It should be a living document; a living plan. We have significant investment in our airports. I referred to the \u20ac200 million investment in Cork Airport, which is really significant. It will transform that airport. The three Ministers here - myself and the Ministers of State, Deputies Canney and Buttimer - are very supportive of our aviation sector and fully recognise the importance of the sector to our economy and our society. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Departmental Policies"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Driver Test","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":5},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Paul O'Shea","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_14.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Paul O'Shea","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Paul O'Shea  I ask the Minister for Transport, further to Parliamentary Question No. 312 of 1 April 2025, to provide an update on the number of driving test assessors currently assigned to Cork; the number if the projected doubling of testers at the end of April was achieved; and if he will make a statement on the matter. It is a serious issue nationally but particularly acute in Cork. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I propose to take Questions Nos. 14, 52 and 272 together.  I thank Deputy O'Shea for his question. As he knows, under the Road Safety Authority Act 2006, the Road Safety Authority, RSA, has statutory responsibility for the national driving test service. I have been advised by the RSA that, following a recruitment process, the number of testers in Cork has increased from nine to 16 and it is envisaged that this number will increase to 18 by the end of the year. I acknowledge that current waiting times for driving tests are far in excess of what is acceptable and I reassure Deputies that measures are being taken to address this issue. I met with the RSA last week to discuss this issue and instructed the authority to return in two weeks with sustainable proposals which will provide a faster resumption to the service level agreement of ten weeks' waiting time.  To support the RSA in increasing testing capacity and improving service delivery, in September 2024 my Department sanctioned an additional 70 permanent positions for driver testers. This increases the total number to 200, which represents a doubling of the number of testers from 2022. The recruitment process is under way, with the first tranche of new testers now being deployed into service. As additional testers enter the system, testing capacity will increase and progress should be seen on reducing waiting times in the months ahead.  As a condition of the sanction given in September, the RSA was required to put in place a plan to restore the ten-week waiting time target as soon as possible. When this plan was first put forward by the RSA, it envisaged a return to the target by November 2025. I have told the authority that this is not acceptable given the level of delay already being suffered by learner drivers. I have instructed the RSA to review the plan and identify further measures that will bring forward the date for achieving the target. The RSA has assured me that service will be restored to the target level in a reasonable time, and I am determined to ensure that this happens.  As I said, I will meet the RSA again next week. I want to see its plan, which I will monitor continuously. As far as I am concerned, this is a crisis that we need to get resolved as quickly as possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Paul O'Shea","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Paul O'Shea  I thank the Minister of State for his engagement on this matter and his public statement last week asking for the RSA to come back to him with further information on reducing these waiting lists. This is a particularly acute issue in Cork. We have more than 4,000 people waiting for a driving test in Mallow, 11,500 people waiting for a Wilton driving test, and more than 2,000 in Ballincollig and a further 2,000 people in Skibbereen waiting for a driving test. That is more than 20,000 people waiting. The Minister of State is right when he says we have young people who are on provisional licences and who need to have this test. One young fella came into my constituency office last week. He will start an apprenticeship at the end of September. He is really struggling to find this test in time because he will not be able to commute to and from his house to get that apprenticeship going. I am also dealing with a girl who sought and got a job for the summertime and unfortunately cannot travel. That is a real challenge. These are the real-life challenges that are there for these young people who are trying to get a test. I encourage the Minister of State to engage with the RSA again and to come back with a further update. I welcome the fact that there has been an increase in the number of testers in Cork but we need more. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I had two people on to me this week. One person got their appointment for 22 December in Wilton, in Cork. The other person's appointment is for 5 January 2026. That is an outrageous period of time that people have to wait for a test. I have parents on to me. One parent's son has to be dropped to work at 4 o'clock in the day and his other parent has to collect him after midnight every night because he is not able to drive to and from work. He has gone through training and has been driving for quite a while but still cannot get a date for a test. We are talking about over eight or nine months' waiting time. This has to be sorted far earlier. I fully understand that people were recruited, but the whole process seems to take forever as regards dealing with the waiting time and dealing with the young people who need to get the test done and get a full driving licence. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I thank both Deputies for their contributions. I think every TD has received correspondence from young people or parents in the same position. I received an email last week from a parent about their son, whose test has been postponed eight times since he applied for it. The dates have been shifted out. That is not acceptable to anybody.  My meeting with the RSA leadership last week focused on the need to reduce the current waiting times. I have instructed them to identify further measures that would bring forward the date. As I have told them, nothing is off the table as to how we address this. I will meet them again next Wednesday. They have given me assurances that the service will be restored in a reasonable time. I do not accept the wording \"reasonable time\"; I want to see specific dates by which that should happen.  I will say two other things, in fairness. Over the last two years, 8,000 people have not shown up for their driving test. That is not acceptable either.  People are not even notifying the driver testers that they are not going to be there, which would give an opportunity to somebody else. Over the past two years, we have lost 8,000 tests because of people not showing up. This needs to be highlighted as well. It is very selfish of people not to show up for their tests or to at least provide notification if they cannot show up. I accept an emergency can happen on occasion but to have 8,000 no-shows is not good enough.  The demand for driving tests has increased. The busiest year in history was 2024, when 253,000 tests were carried out. This was up from 196,000 tests in 2023. We know there is increased demand and people need to get their driver licences so they can go to work or college. Many people cannot find college accommodation so they have to commute some way, especially if there is no public transport access. We must deal with this issue. As I said, this is an emergency. I am in ongoing discussions in this regard. No idea is off the table in trying to reduce the numbers as quickly as possible. The Minister and the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, are working closely with me on this matter to ensure we deliver earlier times and get the ten weeks back as the acceptable norm, and to reduce it even further. If we can reduce it in the first instance, then we can keep reducing it. We also want to create certainty in terms of when a test might be happening. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell)  We only have two minutes left, so I will give each speaker 30 seconds. I call Deputy O'Shea. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Paul O'Shea","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Paul-O'Shea.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Paul O'Shea  I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, for his continued engagement. The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, who is also from Cork, is well aware of the situation in the county. I agree with the Minister of State that we have many no-shows and this unfortunate. It is important that the RSA comes back and offers young people the opportunity of late cancellation appointments. I know people who have cancelled in the past number of days and late appointments would have been accepted on that basis. That progress is encouraging and we must try to keep the momentum going to reduce the waiting lists. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I thank the Minister of State very much for his reply. What we need to do, however, is to set out a clear plan to try to get the waiting time back to ten weeks. At the moment, there appears to be no plan. There is a plan to recruit people but targets do not appear to have been set. This is extremely important. It will probably take three years, and a clear plan should be set out now for the next three years in respect of how we can get the waiting time down to ten weeks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathal Crowe  It appears there is not a shortage of driving instructors but there is certainly a shortage of driving testers. Some of the instructors could be brought over on secondment to do a day or two a week, perhaps in their own county or in the neighbouring county, so they could try to clear some of this backlog. That suggestion was made to me recently by the driver of a large vehicle, who said the waiting time was inordinate and has disrupted the company's logistics chain. Why not use some of these people and bring them in on secondment? I was a teacher for 14 years. When the Department of Education had a gap in a certain area, it would seek secondments to backfill the shortages. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  To respond to Deputy Crowe, as I said earlier, nothing is off the table. In the past, we have used private instructors to do testing, so nothing is off the table as far as I am concerned. Turning to Deputy Burke, what he said is exactly the point. I want to see what is going to happen on a weekly basis, how the numbers are going to be reduced and how the additional testers will be put in place. I need to see the workings of this process. I will not accept half-hearted programmes. I need to see this done clinically and we need to monitor it continuously. Hopefully, we will get the waiting time reduced, and we will start to do it straightaway. It is a big problem but in fairness we are working on it. I accept everything the Deputy said is true. It is shocking because we have front-line workers and young people in this situation and their lives are being disturbed so much. They lose confidence in everything if they do not get their driver licences. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Driver Test"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Departmental Bodies","counts":{"speechCount":12,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_16.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  This question is to ask the Minister to provide details for all agencies under his Department's remit of capital projects costing more than \u20ac500,000 that were either abandoned or materially failed to be delivered, and if he will make a statement on the matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (Deputy Patrick O'Donovan)  I propose to take Questions Nos. 91 and 93 together.  I thank the Deputy. Following my appointment as Minister, issues were brought to my attention regarding a failed ICT project in the Arts Council and an unused X-ray machine in the National Gallery. Both projects were funded directly from my Department. Given the serious nature of the issues, I wanted assurance in relation to capital expenditure in other areas under the aegis of my Department. I therefore requested the Secretary General to write to all the State bodies under our aegis in the culture, sport and media sectors seeking information with regard to expenditure on capital projects since 2020 to provide assurance to me and, more importantly, the public, regarding the management of the capital expenditure. Bodies were asked to provide budgetary information on capital projects costing more than \u20ac500,000 since 2020. In addition, bodies were asked to identify if there were other capital projects below this level that should be brought to the Department\u2019s attention for any other reason such as where there has been significant expenditure on projects that were abandoned or have materially failed to deliver on their objective.  I recently received a report from my officials in respect of this aspect. The responses received provide assurance that there are not widespread issues similar to those that arose at the Arts Council and the National Gallery. However, an issue was identified in the RT\u00c9 response relating to expenditure on one ICT project. I was concerned about this and I met with the director general on 8 April to discuss further the background to the project, the reasons for the failure to deliver and assurance that this would not happen again.  I asked for written confirmation of the measures in place to protect against such a project failure in the future. The director general subsequently wrote to me last week and his response noted that an external review of this project had taken place in 2023 and the lessons from that report have been incorporated into all major capital projects. RT\u00c9 has taken a number of steps over the past 18 months aimed at mitigating the risk of such an issue recurring. While it is disappointing this happened, it is important to note that it is in the context of a significant number of substantial projects delivered annually by the broadcaster. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  I commend the Minister on instructing his Department to initiate this exercise and on providing transparency regarding what may be a huge waste of public money by multiple bodies under the aegis of his Department. Unfortunately for him, these wastes of money seem to follow him. When he was previously Minister with responsibility for the OPW, there were issues with money being wasted, such as the \u20ac1.4 million spent on a security hut and the \u20ac330,000 spent on the Leinster House bike shed. He will say he is not responsible for this and I understand that, but what he must do is identify who is responsible and address it. This should not be with more window-dressing to ensure there is never the opportunity for this to happen again.  These constant financial scandals would bring down governments elsewhere but they are unfortunately par for the course here. With uncertainty in the world due to Trump's tariffs and not knowing what may happen with the Ukraine war, financial responsibility is of utmost importance. If our economy hits any bump in the road at all, it will fall flat on its face with all this public waste of money. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I do not know if there is a question there. There is certainly a big statement, and I have addressed that statement previously with regard to the OPW. The Deputy will appreciate the Accounting Officer for the OPW came before the finance committee and the public accounts committee and laid out in real terms what happened with regard to the Office of Public Works. No more than I did not know what happened in RT\u00c9, I had no detail with regard to the OPW. I know this predates the Deputy, but significant time was spent questioning RT\u00c9 officials in these Houses regarding its previous financial performances, the collapse of the licence fee and their contractual obligations as a broadcaster and everything else. This was never unearthed. The Deputy is right, and I appreciate that she has acknowledged that once I became Minister and realised there was a significant problem in the Arts Council and another in the National Gallery, I took it upon myself to ask if there were others. It is on that basis that I am addressing it. However, and I have addressed this issue previously, whether in the Department of Health, or with regard to expenditure in individual schools, in the Department of Education, Ministers cannot possibly be expected to know individual day-to-day expenditures. That is what Accounting Officers are for and that is why we have decision-makers in bodies. That is why I have taken it upon myself to ask those people responsible for this to come forward with explanations. That is what has happened in this case but I appreciate the comments the Deputy made at the start. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  The Arts Council's \u20ac7 million IT project failure and RT\u00c9's \u20ac3.6 million IT project failure are the headlines, instead of \u20ac10.3 million being spent wisely and well. Let us think of all the sports clubs, musicians and arts and cultural bodies that could have done so much with more than \u20ac10 million. It simply cannot continue, and I commend the Minister on his efforts to address it. Sinn F\u00e9in wants to see all semi-State bodies under the remit of the State auditor and I hope the Government will support that going forward. This is seen as international best practice. The Government could move to do that today if it were really interested in ending this constant waste of public money. Time will tell whether it supports that in the near future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  We have beaten the Deputy to it because RT\u00c9 has been put under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General and all State entities, including An Post and the other ones I will be taking responsibility for once there is a transfer of function order, come under the auspices of NewERA, which to all intents and purposes is a holding agency or accounting body to keep a watchful eye on the semi-State sector to make sure the public is properly represented. We are doing that. I go back to the central point. The Deputy is right that \u20ac10 million used by the Arts Council and RT\u00c9 would make a huge difference to individual sports clubs. What I am going through at the moment is an investigative process to find out what happened and who is responsible. I am sure the Oireachtas committees on public accounts and media, now they are up and running, will probably want to examine this as well. They may well unearth something we have not, and if they do, I will welcome that as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  I will come to this on a different path. This Minister and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, have acted as if some of this information about the Arts Council and RT\u00c9 is new. We know that Deputy Donohoe's former Department of public expenditure was aware of the issues relating to the Arts Council as far back as 2013, and Deputy O'Donovan's Department - even though he was not the head of it - was provided with a large volume of correspondence over the lifespan of the project in the Arts Council. It is so large in fact that the Minister has so far not agreed to publish it. That project was tracking red as early as 2021. I know the Minister has looked for other projects that are costing the taxpayer millions of euro. What other agencies are affected at this stage, other than RT\u00c9 and the Arts Council? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  At the moment there are none to my knowledge. That is not to say there will not be. I did not expect there to be three in the first place, and I certainly did not expect that we would be back to RT\u00c9 again after everything that happened, but we are. I turn to information that has been compiled and the investigative process under way. I would like to think Members support that immediately on becoming aware of this I asked Professor Niamh Brennan, one of the foremost authorities on corporate governance in Ireland, to carry out an investigation into this matter. I have given fairly wide terms of reference. There will be implications. There is no doubt about that, and I am as anxious as the Deputy to hear who said what when, and to whom. I do know it came late in the day to me, and when it did come, after my appointment, I dealt with it. Who knew what prior to that is something I want to get to the bottom of, which is why I have tasked Professor Brennan and the others on the investigative panel to do that body of work for us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  I am glad the Minister raised the issue of Professor Niamh Brennan. This is not a criticism but she carried out a report and review in the culture of governance in RT\u00c9 and she totally missed that this \u20ac4 million write-off had been discussed repeatedly by the RT\u00c9 board in 2023, and that there were issues in that project in 2019. Can the Minister in any way assure us in the reviews she is doing that she will not miss other flaws or gaps in the reports from either RT\u00c9 or the Arts Council? This is to ensure that when all of this is finalised, we are assured that the accounts are fully acceptable, but also that any project floundering - as were both IT projects in both organisations from early on - will be scrapped before the expenditure of huge amounts of taxpayers' money. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  There is one important thing to point out here, which is that the Department has no role in the sanctioning of capital expenditure within RT\u00c9. I know the Deputy knows that. With regard to Professor Niamh Brennan, the Deputy's assessment has been quite unfair. I know him a long time and I know he will reflect on that. The work she did on RT\u00c9 unearthed a serious culture that had failed the organisation, the employees, the licence payers and the Oireachtas, and has ultimately resulted in a situation where we now have a body of work under way in RT\u00c9 that will transform it into a far smaller, slimmer and more efficient organisation that is fit for purpose and in which the public has trust. The person who really drove that, by virtue of the report, was Professor Niamh Brennan. That is why, culturally, I also have to get under the bonnet of the Arts Council because that impairment or loss of money was lurking around for a long time. The Deputy is absolutely right, and the whistle was not blown on it. Once I became aware of it, I dealt with it, and the person in this country who has the greatest level of experience in that area is heading it up for us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  I did not mean to question her at all. I was just saying that she failed to see the hole in the accounts concerning that \u20ac4 million for IT. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I thank the Deputy. I know everybody is anxious to see what we will ultimately get to by way of a report and how quickly. What I do not want to do is put pressure on the group I have assigned to carry out the work for fear people will say I am in any exercising undue influence. I want a report I can stand over and present to the Oireachtas. I am sure it will be debated by committees and the people relevant to the information contained in it will come before them and will be accountable and co-operate with them in full. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Departmental Bodies"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Economic Policy","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_17.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  Will the Minister consider establishing a night-time economy commission or advisory group in each major city to provide expert guidance and recommendations informed by local research and consumer feedback, to support those operating in the creative arts and culture space, and to offer more people to enjoy the night time and help cultural institutions to extend their opening hours into the evening? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Since becoming Minister, I have been particularly interested in the amount of work my Department has been undertaking on the night-time economy. This has primarily been focused on supporting the development of safe and vibrant nightlife across the country. In 2022, the Department invited all local authorities to put in a night-time economy pilot initiative. The aim is to stimulate night-time activity supported at local level by the appointment of a night-time economy adviser.  An independent panel selected nine locations across the country to take part in the pilot, namely, Dublin city, Cork city, Limerick city, Galway city, Kilkenny, Drogheda, Sligo, Buncrana and Longford town. The Department has provided funding for a two-year full-time night-time economy officer in each one of these selected locations and in recent weeks, I confirmed funding for these posts until September 2026. Having established local committees in each of the locations, the advisers have been conducting local surveys to engage with the local community, gathering data to inform policy decisions, and have been consulting with their advisory committees to aid in the process of developing ideas for the night-time economy in their own locality. It is clear that the requirements vary from town to town and city to city, and following feedback from stakeholders, each adviser develops and publishes an action plan for their specific location.  This year, following a tendering process, we appointed Communiqu\u00e9 International to undertake an independent review of the night-time economy pilots to advise on possible options for the future of the initiative. The review will also critically examine the structures involved in supporting the advisers, the funding levels, the visibility of each in their respective areas and their impact on the economy in the local area. I expect the report from that review in the coming weeks and I look forward to the findings of the review. I will also shortly meet the national implementation group for the night-time economy to hear at first-hand from stakeholders across government and others about their priorities and how best we can continue to work together to improve the quality of night-time activity across Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  I welcome the Minister's actions and look forward to the review. I urge him to consider establishing the night-time economy commission or advisory group in each of the major cities. Our cultural life does not end at 5 p.m. as he knows, and neither should our planning. By grounding these commissions in local research and consumer feedback we ensure that we reflect on the unique needs and opportunities for each community, from live music to theatre to hospitality, and transport the night-time economy as a powerful driver of jobs, tourism and well-being. Cities that nurture it see not only economic growth but safer, more vibrant public spaces. The Labour Party is happy to support this so we can shape a more inclusive, creative and sustainable cultural future, one that shines after dark. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I thank the Deputy for his positive remarks. Any suggestions that will be made on this will be welcome. As I said a while ago, once I have had a chance to meet all the relevant stakeholders and also had the chance to review the documentation that is going to be submitted to the Department when it is done, I will have no problem in engaging with Opposition spokespersons on their suggestions. We are going to be heading fast into the budgetary cycle when we are going to be preparing for the Estimates for next year. I would like to hear the practical ideas of how people feel that town centres and city centres can be improved both from a cultural and social point of view but also in terms of practical measures the Department can help with and with which local authorities can also help. Many people often refer to things that are outside the scope of the Department in terms of arts and culture - it might be public realm - or it might be local authority-related matters - but there is no reason that our role cannot be used as a conduit for information to flow to the relevant agency in that matter. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 93 taken with Question No. 91. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Economic Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"An Ghaeltacht","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_18.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  Baineann mo cheist go sonrach le c\u00farsa\u00ed tith\u00edochta sa Ghaeltacht agus go h\u00e1irithe le m\u00edr 9 d\u2019Acht na dTithe (Gaeltacht) (Leas\u00fa), 2001. Faoin mh\u00edr sin, t\u00e1 cumhacht ag an Aire agus ag an Roinn airgead agus acmhainn\u00ed deontais a chur ar f\u00e1il do chainteoir\u00ed Gaeilge chun tithe a athch\u00f3iri\u00fa n\u00f3 tithe a th\u00f3g\u00e1il. N\u00edl an mh\u00edr sin \u00e1 h\u00fas\u00e1id faoi l\u00e1thair \u00f3 2009 ar aghaidh, \u00e1fach. Is mian liom soil\u00e9iri\u00fa a fh\u00e1il c\u00e9n f\u00e1th nach bhfuil s\u00ed in \u00fas\u00e1id. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Teachta. Mar is eol don Teachta, t\u00e1 c\u00faraim\u00ed na Gaeltachta agus na Gaeilge ag aistri\u00fa chuig an Aire, an Teachta Calleary, faoi l\u00e1thair. Bh\u00ed s\u00e9 le bheith anseo inniu ach n\u00ed raibh s\u00e9 in ann teacht go dt\u00ed an Teach inniu mar gheall ar ch\u00farsa\u00ed pearsanta. Rinne an Rialtas ord\u00fa D\u00e9 M\u00e1irt chun na feidhmeanna Gaeltachta a aistri\u00fa go foirmi\u00fail \u00f3 mo Roinn chuig an Roinn Forbartha Tuaithe agus Pobail, a bheidh mar Roinn na Gaeltachta amach anseo. Tiocfaidh an t-ord\u00fa i bhfeidhm ar an 1 Meitheamh. Is \u00e9 an tAire, an Teachta Calleary, a thabharfaidh freagra\u00ed ar cheisteanna na D\u00e1la as seo amach. Maidir leis an gceist seo, \u00e1fach, rinne an Rialtas ord\u00fa D\u00e9 M\u00e1irt feidhmeanna na Gaeilge a aistri\u00fa go foirmi\u00fail. Ar an \u00e1bhar sin, t\u00e1 m\u00e9 an-eolach ar na d\u00fashl\u00e1in at\u00e1 ann i gceantair Ghaeltachta tith\u00edocht a chur ar f\u00e1il ar phraghas r\u00e9as\u00fanta do dhaoine \u00e1iti\u00fala. Is d\u00fashl\u00e1n \u00e9 seo at\u00e1 n\u00edos leithne n\u00e1 an Ghaeltacht f\u00e9in ar nd\u00f3igh. T\u00e1 an Rialtas seo an-ghn\u00edomhach sa r\u00e9imse seo.  C\u00e9 nach bhfuil s\u00e9 i gceist ag an Rialtas sc\u00e9im na ndeontas tith\u00edochta Gaeltachta a re\u00e1cht\u00e1il ar\u00eds, t\u00e1 an Roinn ag obair go dl\u00fath leis an Roinn tith\u00edochta agus le \u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta chun taca\u00edochta\u00ed breise a chur ar f\u00e1il do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. T\u00e1 cainteanna ar si\u00fal idir an Roinn tith\u00edochta agus oifigigh na Roinne Gaeltachta maidir le plean\u00e1il i gceantair Ghaeltachta. T\u00e1 gr\u00fapa oibre bunaithe ag an d\u00e1 Roinn, mar aon le h\u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta agus \u00fadar\u00e1is \u00e1iti\u00fala, chun an cheist seo a scr\u00fad\u00fa. Mar chuid den obair seo, t\u00e1 an Roinn Tith\u00edochta, Rialtais \u00c1iti\u00fail agus Oidhreachta ag dr\u00e9acht\u00fa treoirl\u00ednte plean\u00e1la Gaeltachta faoi l\u00e1thair ag teacht le gealltanas a tugadh sa chl\u00e1r Rialtais. \u00d3 thaobh na Gaeltachta de, tabharfaidh an Bille um \u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta (Leas\u00fa), 2024 cumhachta\u00ed nua don \u00fadar\u00e1s talamh a chur ar f\u00e1il le haghaidh tith\u00edochta i gceantair Ghaeltachta. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire. Tuigim nach lu\u00edonn an c\u00faram seo leis. Tuigim a ch\u00e1s. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 ag seasamh anseo in ionad an Aire, an Teachta Calleary. Is c\u00fais d\u00edom\u00e1 agus imn\u00ed go bhfuil s\u00e9 r\u00e1ite go neamhbhalbh ag an Rialtas anois nach bhfuil s\u00e9 chun sc\u00e9im na ndeontas a thabhairt ar ais. N\u00ed thuigim c\u00e9n f\u00e1th mar bh\u00ed s\u00e9 sin ag feidhmi\u00fa go maith. In 2009, cuireadh \u20ac4 milli\u00fan ar f\u00e1il don sc\u00e9im seo. Mar is eol don Aire, t\u00e1 g\u00e9arch\u00e9im thith\u00edochta sna Gaeltachta\u00ed uilig. Is \u00ed an Ghaeltacht i nGaillimh an Ghaeltacht is m\u00f3 sa t\u00edr. T\u00e1 B\u00c1N\u00da ar an dtalamh agus i dteagmh\u00e1il le gach Teachta D\u00e1la go rialta le cur in i\u00fal c\u00e9 chomh deacair is at\u00e1 s\u00e9 tithe a th\u00f3g\u00e1il sa Ghaeltacht agus na himpleachta\u00ed at\u00e1 ansin don teanga. Is bealach \u00e9ifeachtach \u00e9 seo. T\u00e1 an reachta\u00edocht agus an mh\u00edr ann ach n\u00edl an Rialtas ag baint \u00fas\u00e1id astu. Seachas abairt amh\u00e1in le r\u00e1 nach mbeidh an sc\u00e9im ar ais, n\u00edl aon ch\u00faiseanna tugtha ag an Aire dom c\u00e9n f\u00e1th. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Tuigim go soil\u00e9ir c\u00e9 chomh t\u00e1bhachtach is at\u00e1 an cheist seo. Nuair a bh\u00ed me i Roinn na Gaeltachta, bh\u00ed an-suim agam san \u00e1bhar seo. Tuigim c\u00e9 chomh t\u00e1bhachtach is at\u00e1 s\u00e9 n\u00ed hamh\u00e1in do na ceantair Ghaeltachta ach freisin do dhaoine lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht a bhfuil suim acu sna h\u00e1bhair a bhaineann leis na Gaeltachta\u00ed timpeall na t\u00edre.  Maidir leis an Roinn, beidh cruinni\u00fa ag an Aire, an Teachta Calleary, agus ag an Roinn le h\u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta an tseachtain seo chugainn. Beidh m\u00e9 in ann, b\u2019fh\u00e9idir, iarraidh air teacht ar ais do na hurlabhraithe Gaeltachta agus Gaeilge sa Teach seo nuair a bheidh an cruinni\u00fa sin cr\u00edochnaithe. C\u00e9 nach bhfuil an tAire ann faoi l\u00e1thair, d\u00e9anfaidh s\u00e9 a dh\u00edcheall an cheist seo a fhreagairt an tseachtain seo chugainn. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire. Is maith an rud \u00e9 go mbeidh cruinni\u00fa idir an t-\u00fadar\u00e1s agus an tAire mar beidh an Bille um \u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta (Leas\u00fa), 2024 os \u00e1r gcomhair ar\u00eds an tseachtain seo. Bh\u00ed cruinni\u00fa le bheith ann idir B\u00c1N\u00da agus an tAire freisin. T\u00e1 s\u00fail agam go mbeidh an cruinni\u00fa sin ann sula dtagann an Bille os \u00e1r gcomhair ar\u00eds. Ar\u00eds, n\u00edl aon ch\u00fais tugtha ag an Aire n\u00f3 ag an Roinn c\u00e9n f\u00e1th nach bhfuil siad ag baint \u00fas\u00e1id as an m\u00edr seo. T\u00e1 s\u00ed ann agus t\u00e1 cumhacht ag an Roinn agus ag an Aire deontais a chur ar f\u00e1il chun daoine a chumas\u00fa chun athch\u00f3iri\u00fa a dh\u00e9anamh ar a gcuid tithe. N\u00ed thuigim \u00e9. T\u00e1 muid ag caint faoi \u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta, \u00fadar\u00e1is \u00e1iti\u00fala agus an Roinn. A fhad is at\u00e1 muid ag caint, agus gach duine ag obair i mbealach nach bhfuil tagtha le ch\u00e9ile, beidh g\u00e9arch\u00e9im tith\u00edochta againn. N\u00ed f\u00e9idir glacadh leis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Aonta\u00edm leis an Teachta. Tuigim c\u00e9 chomh t\u00e1bhachtach is at\u00e1 an t-\u00e1bhar seo. Tuigim c\u00e9 chomh fada is at\u00e1 muid sa Teach seo ag caint ar an \u00e1bhar seo. Maidir leis na ceantair Ghaeltachta, is \u00e9 sin an polasa\u00ed is t\u00e1bhachta\u00ed do na daoine a bhfuil c\u00f3na\u00ed orthu sa Ghaeltacht.  B\u2019fh\u00e9idir go mbeidh an tAire, an Teachta Calleary, in ann teacht ar ais chuig na hurlabhraithe Gaeltachta agus Gaeilge nuair a bheidh s\u00e9 ar ais an tseachtain seo chugainn, sula dtagann an Bille os comhair na D\u00e1la, chun d\u00e9ile\u00e1il leis an \u00e1bhar sin. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"An Ghaeltacht"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tourism Industry","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_19.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  I ask the Minister the ways in which his Department will work with officials throughout Government ensure that the vital tourism industry is supported across all regions and if he will make a statement on the matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. As I said to Deputy Connolly earlier, this is an issue that is on the way out of our Department. Last Tuesday it was finalised that my colleague, Deputy Peter Burke, will be answerable on tourism. Following the making of a Government order on Tuesday, statutory responsibility for the sector will transfer to the Minister, Deputy Burke, from 1 June. He has already had a number of engagements with key tourism stakeholders across a range of priority areas.  The programme for Government sets out a clear commitment to growing Ireland's tourism industry. Through support for Tourism Ireland and F\u00e1ilte Ireland, we want to showcase Ireland as a high quality and accessible destination for both national and international visitors. In addition, the Government will work with F\u00e1ilte Ireland to develop a balanced regional spread of tourism throughout the country, promoting and advancing the Hidden Heartlands, Ireland\u2019s Ancient East, the Wild Atlantic Way, and Dublin.  The Tourism Policy Framework 2025-2030 was published by the previous Government last November. I understand that the Minister has asked officials to consider how commitments in the new programme for Government align with the policy framework and to prioritise the finalisation of a new tourism policy which reflects the programme and other Government priorities. I would also like to note that F\u00e1ilte Ireland has put in place a set of regional tourism strategies out to 2027 which will be implemented by localised destination and experience development plans. These five-year plans follow a best practice destination stewardship approach, co-created and jointly managed by all key stakeholders in a destination.  In terms of ensuring that all regions benefit from overseas tourism, we know ongoing selling points for Ireland are our scenery, culture and history. Tourism Ireland will be launching a new slow tourism campaign in overseas markets in June, focused on helping people get around the regions and explore the island. In terms of the domestic market, F\u00e1ilte Ireland is continuing its investment in destination development, capital projects, marketing, and festivals across the country. Furthermore, the Minister, Deputy Burke, launched a new business events strategy on 29 April to promote the development of our world-class business events sector and realise the full economic benefits of business events for the island of Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  D\u00e9anaim comhghairdeas leis an Aire. N\u00ed raibh seans agam comhghairdeas a dh\u00e9anamh leis as a phost nua sa Rialtas.  I wish to raise a number of items, the first of which is the quality of tourism statistics. Good quality data is really important for tourism policy planning and for making progress in determining where Government resources should go in tourism. There has been an issue, as highlighted in the media recently, in this regard. The Central Statistics Office, CSO, does good work in this area but there is a bit of a dispute as to what is the right data in terms of tourism. The Government has a responsibility to try to resolve this. We should explore ways to enhance the quality of our tourism statistics. We need to get good quality data that we can act on. We also need to see better collaboration between the CSO and Revenue Commissioners which already collects data from tourism businesses. The Minister mentioned Tourism Ireland and F\u00e1ilte Ireland, both of which have a role to play there. Tourism is almost like an export business because it involves people from abroad, in the main, coming in and it is very important to reach into the regional economies in Ireland.  The second item is the tourist tax, a matter of quite a bit of debate at the moment as the Minister knows. A tourist or bed tax is becoming more and more common across the world. We have a report from the capital city taskforce which has to be funded and implemented and the tourist tax could play an important role in that regard. It is a common tool used across Europe in particular. On regional tourism, my area of Dublin Bay North has Howth, Bull Island, Dollymount, St. Anne's Park, the Casino in Marino and Fairview Park. It has lots of good, local attractions but the city of Dublin's tourism is very much events-based in the city centre. It would be useful to look at supporting suburban tourism around Dublin, not just around the country but in parts of Dublin and to develop strategies in that regard. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  There is a lot there. I thank the Deputy for his kind remarks as Gaeilge at the outset. The Deputy will be glad to know that in regard to the tourist tax, I have no role in that. That is a matter for the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, and the Department of Finance. I have personal views on a tourism tax. I do not think that levying a tax on people who are trying to get into the country is a good idea. I could be proven wrong by others but that is a moot point.  Regarding the CSO and the Revenue Commissioners, as a former Minister of State in the Department of tourism, I know that it is very important to have accurate data. There are always people who will dispute the numbers and how they are collected, especially for inward tourism. How do people get onto the island? Some arrive into Belfast Airport and drive down, some arrive by ferry and drive down and so on. It is a moot point but it is well made. There is probably scope for a greater level of collaboration between Revenue, CSO, F\u00e1ilte Ireland and Tourism Ireland. That is something that I will feed back to the Minister, Deputy Burke. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  On the tourism tax, I understand the Minister's point which, as he said, is moot but from my perspective, if I am lucky enough to have the opportunity to travel to a European capital, the fact that I am paying a tourism tax in that city to help with its infrastructure does not deter me. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  It does not deter people but one of the things that local authority members should look at first is their capacity to raise revenue from existing streams rather than levying a new tax on people. Often there is a rush, for instance, to reduce the local property tax, LPT. Some people are totally opposed to the LPT and have a fundamental objection to it but at the same time, they come up with the concept of a tourism tax. The two things do not sit well together, to be honest. The Dublin local authorities have the potential to look at their own internal revenue bases first before a tourism tax is foisted on people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  We should be looking to do both. We have a report to be implemented which needs new sources of revenue. A tourism tax and other options should all be on the table because it is important for the city. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I think we will leave that matter to the Minister, Deputy Donohoe. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tourism Industry"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 96 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Facilities","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_21.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I wish to raise an issue on which the Minister of State has engaged with me regarding Raheny Shamrocks Athletics Club and a development that the board of the club has been working really hard on. I welcome the fact the Minister of State has been speaking to the board. I ask him to comment on the fact that the northside needs more investment in this club and in running tracks across the board. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)  I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and I know that Raheny Shamrocks is a club to which he is very committed. His question today relates to the potential for a visit from me to the clubhouse, which is something that both Deputies Heneghan and Brabazon have raised with me. I received an invitation from Deputy Brabazon previously and I responded to the effect that I will be visiting the club on 20 May. I look forward to seeing both Deputies then and to meeting club members.  The club has a wonderful history and a great tradition. Raheny Shamrocks is an iconic athletics club, not just in Dublin but across the country. It is one of the oldest athletics clubs in the country, with former members, including Olympians Dick Hooper, Pat Hooper, Paddy McGrath, Mick Clohisey and most recently, Sophie Becker. The club is also very well known nationally for hosting the Raheny five mile road race which raises very significant funds for the local hospice and is one of the most anticipated five mile runs in the racing calendar.  As the Deputy knows, the Department runs two capital funding programmes for sport, namely, the community sports facilities fund, CSFF, formerly the sports capital and equipment fund, and the large-scale sport infrastructure fund, LSSIF. Over a quarter of a billion euro was allocated to over 3,000 community sports clubs and facilities in 2024 from the 2023 round of the CSFF. That represented the largest ever investment in sports facilities in communities across Ireland. Raheny Shamrock Athletic Club previously received funding under CSFF in 2018 and again in 2020. In 2024, the second round of the LSSIF was launched and received an unprecedented demand for funding of \u20ac665 million. Out of the 96 clubs that applied, 35 were successful, with \u20ac173 million allocated. Raheny Shamrocks submitted an application to that fund which was not successful. Should additional funding become available, we are assessing how that can be dealt with in terms of a reserve list.  I very much look forward to meeting Raheny Shamrock Athletic Club during my visit, seeing the proposals and meeting Deputies Heneghan and Brabazon and committee members on 20 May. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  It is great to hear that the Minister of State will be coming to the club. Raheny Shamrock Athletic Club has a significant history of producing Olympians not just for the northside but for all of Ireland, such as Dick Hooper, Mick Clohisey and Sophie Becker as well as paralympians Orla Comerford and David McNally, and Brian Fay, who I went to school with. With over 850 members, the club still has a waiting list for juveniles. There are way more running tracks on the southside. I believe the estimate is six or seven public tracks compared with two public tracks on the northside of Dublin. I do not know if this is because previous northside politicians did not raise it enough with the Department. Will the Minister of State commit to possibly looking into Dublin City Council adding a 400 m running track to St. Anne's Park to be used by future Olympians? More than 90,000 people live with 4 km of St. Anne's Park. Is there any chance that the Department would investigate that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  I know the club has done wonderful work there historically but also in terms of seeking to develop the club in recent years. It was supported in 2018 and 2020 through sports capital grants. I know it purchased a new building in Raheny and is considering how it can develop it having purchased the old Catholic church in Raheny village. I look forward to seeing how we can work with it in the time ahead. We will open sports capital grants next year. The large scale sports infrastructure grants first opened in 2019, with the second round in 2024. We will look at how that evolves over the next period. Of the \u20ac297 million allocated in the past year for sports generally, \u20ac79 million was allocated to athletics initiatives on a national scale. Under the large scale sports infrastructure fund, six projects were backed by Athletics Ireland and were awarded \u20ac25 million. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I welcome the fact that the Minister of State said that. Regarding the lack of running tracks and the number of Olympians, maybe northsiders are just better runners. I ask that the capital plan that, please God, will go to Raheny Shamrock Athletic Club not be a one-time investment. If Dublin City Council could do this, it could charge people, which would build revenue for the council. We would also prevent further use of hospital services because people would be fitter. Like the significant fines we are facing from the EU, a stitch in time saves nine. We need to invest in youth and our clubs. I welcome the fact that the Minister of State has engaged with me and I thank him from the bottom of my heart on behalf on all the parents whose doors I knocked on who are looking for this. St. Anne's Park needs the investment. Children still have to go into bushes to get changed or to use the bathrooms. Significant things need to be done. I thank the Minister for State for his engagement with this so far. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  I thank Deputy Heneghan, who is a former teacher, for raising this matter. This club has really deep roots in Raheny and Clontarf and further afield. It is well known throughout the country for its excellence but at its core, it has very strong community roots and really deserves our support. We look forward to seeing the Minister of State visit it. I hope we can work together to progress the club's case. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  I thank Deputy \u00d3 Muir\u00ed for his representations and support for the club. The challenge at a national level is the number of asks. If we look at the large scale infrastructure fund most recently, we can see that there were 96 applications nationally and, of these, 35 projects were successful. This meant that \u20ac173 million in total was allocated out of an ask in terms of the numbers that came in of \u20ac665 million. This is always the challenge but we have seen significant progress in backing the wonderful clubs across all our sports nationally. They all want to do more, we want to back them in doing more and we will be considering how we can do that in terms of additional funding. I look forward to seeing Deputies Heneghan, \u00d3 Muir\u00ed and Brabazon with the club when I visit in the coming days. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Facilities"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tourism Promotion","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_22.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  What specific measures is the Department taking to support and grow the tourism sector in County Offaly, including investment in local attractions such as Lough Boora, the Slieve Bloom Mountains and the Grand Canal greenway? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I propose to take Questions Nos. 98 and 120 together.  The Deputy will appreciate that tourism is now the policy responsibility of the Minister, Deputy Burke. Following the making of a Government order yesterday, statutory responsibility for the sector will transfer to the Minister, Deputy Burke, from 1 June. However, I can say that the Government recognises the central importance of the tourism sector to Ireland's economy and communities.  County Offaly is included in F\u00e1ilte Ireland's Ireland's Hidden Heartlands regional tourism development strategy 2023-27. This roadmap sets out a strategic approach to unlock the commercial potential of the region while ensuring development is sustainable and benefits accrue to local communities and protect our natural environment. Since its inception in 2018, Ireland's Hidden Heartlands has made a significant impact on the promotion of tourism while showcasing natural assets and local heritage and giving support to the surrounding communities.  F\u00e1ilte Ireland is also actively working on the ground in Offaly in 2025, meeting with communities across the county to help them understand the opportunities tourism can offer and also to guide them towards relevant F\u00e1ilte Ireland supports. F\u00e1ilte Ireland is working in alignment with other stakeholders in the county, including Offaly County Council, Offaly Tourism and Offaly Local Development Company.  The Slieve Bloom mountain biking trail was officially opened in April 2023 and is part of the international mountain biking project, which received an investment of approximately \u20ac13 million through the rural regeneration and development fund. The trail is the most extensive one built to date in Ireland, with more than 80 km of trail riding. It positions Ireland as one of the best international destinations for trail riding. A project is also under way to replace and upgrade pedestrian-cycle signs for Slieve Bloom trailheads in towns. This project has now moved to installation phase, which is due to be completed in 2025.  Under the just transition fund, Bord na M\u00f3na has been awarded \u20ac3.6 million towards the creation of up to 79 km of new walking and cycling trails across suitable parts of the Bord na M\u00f3na land bank, including the following areas of Offaly: Offaly east between the Grand Canal greenway and Mount Lucas; and Offaly west between Clonmacnoise, Ballynahown and Lough Boora. The Grand Canal greenway, a 70 km cycle and walkway connecting west to east Offaly, was officially launched in October 2024. This greenway offers an opportunity for tourism businesses to optimise their potential and improve the visitor experience and commercial performance in the area. As the Deputy is aware, greenways are under the remit of the Department of Transport, but I am advised that Offaly County Council is working in partnership with Waterways Ireland and Bord na M\u00f3na to support industry and communities to develop amenities and maximise the potential of the assets within the county. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  While investment in Clonmacnoise and progress on Birr's telescope are welcome, Offaly remains one of the most underpromoted yet richly endowed counties for tourism in Ireland. We have an incredibly varied and beautiful landscape, including the Slieve Bloom Mountains, lush farmlands, boglands, greenways, rivers and lakes. Our heritage is world class - Clonmacnoise, Birr Castle, Croghanhill and Durrow Abbey, which is the original home of the Book of Durrow, one of Ireland's most treasured manuscripts. We are also home to Tullamore Dew, which is a globally recognised whiskey brand, and vibrant waterways with towns like Banagher and Shannon Harbour. When I hosted New Zealand's ambassador to Ireland recently, he was taken aback by Offaly's natural beauty and untapped tourism potential. While I welcome all we have done, we need to concentrate more on smaller counties like Offaly to promote tourism in the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I will pass on the Deputy's remarks to the Minister, Deputy Burke, who is a neighbour of Deputy McCormack. I do not disagree with much of what the Deputy said. I was previously a Minister of State at the old Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and I also had responsibility for the OPW. I know one of the principal national sites of the OPW is Clonmacnoise. I met Offaly County Council when I had responsibility for the OPW to see what it wanted to do around the strategic use in a sustainable way of Clonmacnoise and how it could be of benefit to the surrounding towns and villages. I would encourage the collaboration between the OPW and Offaly County Council.  If it continues, there are probably opportunities through the schemes I have already referred to, such as rural regeneration and development funding, which falls under the remit of my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Calleary. There are opportunities for State agencies to be the lead agency with responsibility for making applications for that type of funding. I am sure from what I heard when I met representatives of Offaly County Council in the OPW, that it is their intention to use the strategic assets they have around the county, particularly those that are under the auspices of the OPW, to benefit the towns and villages in County Offaly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  I thank the Minister. While his continued support is appreciated, it is crucial that we move from potential to progress. The Offaly tourism plan is a strong foundation but it needs national-level commitment to truly deliver. The Book of Durrow, one of Europe's oldest illuminated manuscripts, deserves to be celebrated in its original home, yet Durrow Abbey remains closed. Sites such as Lough Boora and the Slieve Bloom trails are ideal for ecotourism but lack the investment and infrastructure to thrive. The EU just transition tourism regenerative fund sparked remarkable engagement from local businesses and community enterprises but its tight deadlines were a barrier for many. The appetite is there; we just need the tools.  Will the Minister explore a longer-term funding programme to focus on community-led regenerative tourism in just transition counties? Can we look forward to Offaly being prioritised for future pilot projects in sustainable rural tourism, given its diversity in assets and the strong local momentum? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  The Deputy has made some positive suggestions about areas in his county that he knows intimately. One of the best things to do would be to have direct engagement with the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, perhaps with some of the other Oireachtas Members from County Offaly. The county council has already done much of the preliminary work. As a man from the neighbouring county of Westmeath, I am sure that the Minister, Deputy Burke, is acutely aware of the potential of the Hidden Heartlands brand of F\u00e1ilte Ireland. That all came from the successes of the Wild Atlantic Way and the need for a similar brand in the midlands. It has proven to be positive.  The Shannon is one of the best assets the county has, and not just because it flows to Limerick. It is an amazing amenity. I have used the boats on the river during holidays. There is a lot going for the county. The best thing to do would be for the Deputy and the other Government representatives from the county to sit down with the Minister, Deputy Burke, and Offaly County Council to see what is the best way forward in terms of engagement with State agencies. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tourism Promotion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_23","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tourism Promotion","counts":{"speechCount":9,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_23.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  What initiatives are being implemented by the Minister to promote tourism in Kelly, County Meath, to enhance the town's appeal as a destination for visitors? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I propose to take Questions Nos. 99 and 111 together.  This is the third time I have said the following but I will repeat it for the record. Tourism is now the policy responsibility of my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke. Following the making of a Government order on Tuesday, statutory responsibility for the sector will transfer to the Minister, Deputy Burke, from 1 June. He has already had a number of engagements with key tourism stakeholders across a range of priority areas and the Government recognises the central importance of the tourism sector to Ireland's economy.  In addition, I note that the programme for Government provides that the Government will work with F\u00e1ilte Ireland to develop a balanced regional spread of tourism throughout the country, promoting and enhancing the Hidden Heartlands, Ireland's Ancient East, the Wild Atlantic Way and Dublin. County Meath is included in F\u00e1ilte Ireland\u2019s Ancient East regional tourism development strategy 2023-27. Ireland's Ancient East is not only internationally renowned for its rich heritage but also for the variety of tracks and trails by which the region can be explored and discovered. Its diverse landscape provides the visitor with a rich tapestry from which to unlock the living culture unique to the place and underpinned by 5,000 years of heritage and tradition evidenced by its many historical sites.  Under the strategy, the ancient destination experience development plan, DEDP, which includes Meath, provides a destination-wide tourism development focus, harnessing existing plans and examining new projects to create a world-class destination with \"ancient\" as the core development theme. A key project in the ancient DEDP for delivery in 2025 is the development of a place-making plan for Kells that will link the various cultural assets within the town as a collective visitor proposition. Examples include the Spire of Lloyd experience, the Kells Type Trail, the round tower and crosses, St. Colmcille\u2019s house and interpretative experiences.  The reimagined Boyne Valley drive has the objective of moving the existing Boyne Valley drive up the tourism value chain from a point-to-point journey between some of Ireland's most important and compelling heritage sites to a wider immersive visitor proposition that becomes a 5,000-year journey through time and is a key element of the ancient DEDP.  The key achievements in County Meath to date include the continued growth of the world-class P\u00faca festival, which has contributed greatly to an emerging tourism destination. The P\u00faca festival, developed by F\u00e1ilte Ireland in partnership with Meath County Council, plays a key role in attracting visitors who support revenue generation and job creation in local communities. The original Irish Hallowe'en was a time for feasting, gathering and storytelling as darkness turned to light and the shape-shifting spirits roamed the night. The P\u00faca festival is a vibrant and contemporary three-day festival strongly rooted in tradition with a programme of events centred around spectacle, music and food. The festival received national funding of \u20ac1 million from F\u00e1ilte Ireland in 2024 to deliver a high-quality cultural festival, contemporary and distinct from Hallowe'en events in other cities, all set against the backdrop of an historically authentic setting. With over 49,000 attendees, the P\u00faca festival has played a significant role in establishing this event as a must-see for tourists from local areas and abroad.  I am sure the Deputy is also aware of the work that has been carried out at the Knowth and Br\u00fa na B\u00f3inne sites. Knowth is a culturally significant site and a partnership between F\u00e1ilte Ireland, the National Monuments Service and the Office of Public Works has enhanced the experience for visitors in Knowth, encouraging more people to visit the site and wider County Meath.  F\u00e1ilte Ireland continues to work with the Slane estate to develop its visitor proposition. The strategy centres around the development of a master plan aligning the estate's key assets, namely, the castle and distillery, and other places in the wider estate property linked to the emerging greenway. The current focus is on developing a three-year business plan with specific short-term actions aligned to the master plan. F\u00e1ilte Ireland will continue to work with the representatives of Slane Castle, which is a key driver of tourism in County Meath, to oversee the implementation of the business plan.  Meath is also included in the Keep Discovering campaign 2025, with both TV and print adverts to raise the profile of the county and attract both national and international visitors. The campaign reminds Irish and Northern Irish consumers that while they think they know Ireland, there is always something new to discover and encourages everyone to keep discovering. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I thank the Minister for the response. I acknowledge the changeover of portfolios between Departments. I say to the Minister and his colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy McConalogue, that there is a real overlap between tourism product in Kells, for example, and arts, culture and sport. For example, the Hinterland Festival of Literature and Arts happens at the end of June and includes contributions from the Kells Type Trail. I encourage the Minister to come to the festival; he would be more than welcome. We also have the Samhain Festival of Food and Culture. Our preseason soccer tournament for kids is among the biggest in Ireland. It plays a significant role in encouraging people into the town. We also have a 36-hole golf course, which is an attraction. We also have the River Blackwater. The anglers in Kells do a fantastic job of maintaining and protecting that natural resource. We also have the likes of Girley Bog, which is just outside the town, as a natural amenity.  I appreciate the Minister's answer but the frustration among the community is that the town is working hard to put itself on the radar when the plans are not there to connect and draw people into the town of Kells. We must tap into the Book of Kells and the name of the town. Considerable numbers of people come to the Dublin area, for example, and there is potential to bring them on day trips to Kells. Is that immense potential being considered? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I entirely agree with the Deputy that the overlap between arts, culture, sport and tourism is enormous. I refer to the impact of Listowel Writers' Week in County Kerry, for example. All festivals, especially the larger ones, have an impact by bringing people to particular areas. The same is true for sporting events. Money is generated in Limerick by Munster Rugby, as it is in Dublin by Leinster Rugby. There is obvious synergy there and we are acutely aware of that and want it to grow. This year, for instance, we have a committed set of international sporting engagements, including an NFL American football game.  Government is also supporting the Ryder Cup in Adare in 2027 and there is a number of others that will generate not only people coming in for the weekend of the event but also legacy. Such an event generates a huge spin-off for the place it is on, like Adare in County Limerick, for its hinterland and for the entire country. I said to Deputy McCormack that local authorities are the best placed people to know a locality and get people into an area.  The advantage County Meath has that counties in the west and south of Ireland do not have is it has an airport on its doorstep through which millions of people transit per year. The marketing plans for that will have to be geared around, in many cases, short-term stays and - the Deputy is right - getting people out of Dublin. Other counties have done it quite successfully. Look at Wicklow and the impact Glendalough has. It is hugely successful. Kildare has the Japanese Gardens in Newbridge. There is a lot of potential for counties around Dublin to use Dublin as a staging post. That is probably the old Pale. Newbridge, Kildare Village, the Japanese Gardens and Glendalough have done it very successfully.  The heritage that is in County Meath is nowhere else in the world. There are places in the county older than the pyramids, which are all, thankfully, in the charge of the State under the Office of Public Works. We made significant investments there in my time. There is also the advent of a national park. The potential is enormous; it is just about bringing it together. In fairness to Meath County Council, it is doing very positive work in that space. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  The Minister is absolutely right. We look to the monastic settlements, the round tower, the high crosses, St. Columcille's House and the Spire of Lloyd. The Minister mentioned those. There are incredible sites of historic significance. The Minister will know, and I suppose it is the point he is making, that local individuals and communities through their effort and initiative have made so much happen, including GAA, soccer and other sports clubs. We have the best handball club in Ireland, I would say. It is a sport that is often under-recognised.  I draw the Minister's attention to a project supported by various Departments which taps into the type trail the Minister mentioned and the association of the Book of Kells with the creative art around type, lettering and font. It is the establishment of a printworks bringing old printers back. It would essentially be a print museum and it is hoped it will be launched and opened in the coming weeks or months. I particularly commend Mark Smith, who is a local community activist and working artist, including with the local authority and mental health organisations, on his role in that. I encourage the type of support provided so far by various Departments to continue, as well as the work with the local community in Kells, the same as in other areas, to ensure the potential that is there is realised. I invite the Minister - and will also invite the Minister, Deputy Burke - to come to Kells to see the huge potential that is there related to his role in the arts and culture and that of his colleague, the Minister of State, in sport. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  No doubt I will get an opportunity. The Deputy might send me the details on that and I will have a look at it. I have had many dealings with Louth and Meath tourism. I know they will set aside their collegiality for the Leinster final but it is great to see the Deputy sitting beside a Louth person. Hopefully, Louth will undo the wrong done to them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  No, no, no. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I could not agree with the Minister more. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I am just offering an opinion but I wish Louth the best of luck. I wish Meath the best of luck as well but I hope Louth make the breakthrough this year. Louth and Meath County Councils are cheek by jowl with each other and work effectively together. The River Boyne provides an obvious link between the two counties that both are adept at exploiting. There are an awful lot of State assets there. Oldbridge is in County Meath but is essentially a resource for the people of Drogheda and is a massive State resource owned and operated by the Office of Public Works. All the monuments in the Boyne Valley attract tens of thousands of visitors. The most important thing is to get them to spend money. You do not want to put them back onto a bus. It is one thing to get visitors when they are all straight onto a bus to the next place. You have to wonder what value that kind of tourism is to the locality. Getting people to stop and spend is the most important thing.  I had a fair bit of dealing with this in my previous role with responsibility for tourism and OPW and I know Louth and Meath tourism are working hard to get people to stay. In some cases, their proximity to Dublin is a disadvantage. They are within an hour's striking distance on the bus and visitors are back again to have dinner, a few drinks or whatever in Dublin that night. To reverse that is a big challenge. The road improvements made into Louth and Meath mean they become closer which is, in some ways, a disadvantage. They are fortunate to have two good councils working well in the space and I wish them both the best of luck on Sunday. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tourism Promotion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_24","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Funding","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_24.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  Will the Minister outline the amount spent by his Department in supporting sports clubs and organisations in Cork in 2024? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  I propose to take Questions Nos. 100, 105, 108 and 137 together.  I thank the Deputies for their questions. The programme for Government commits to supporting the sporting community across the country to ensure more people participate, reap the benefits of sport and fulfil their potential from grassroots right up to high-performance level. We are achieving this and will continue to achieve it through a number of measures, including maintaining sports funding to get more people participating at all levels of sport, particularly targeting cohorts in society where there are lower than average participation levels. This includes people with disabilities and older people.  The community sport facilities fund is the primary vehicle for Government support for the development of sports and recreation facilities. We had a round of that last year with significant investment and more than 3,000 community sports clubs and facilities received record funding under that. Under the large-scale sport infrastructure fund, significant funding of \u20ac173 million was announced in November last year, supporting 35 projects.  Cork is the particular focus of Deputy Burke's question. We saw \u20ac7.3 million paid to 130 sporting organisations, and allocations of \u20ac32.5 million were made to 367 Cork sporting organisations across the large-scale sport infrastructure fund and community sport facilities fund. That is \u20ac32 million in total for Cork. Since 2018, that figure is \u20ac77 million.  One of the largest projects funded to date under the first large-scale sport infrastructure fund was the Athletics Ireland and Munster Technological University, formerly CIT, community sport project on the Bishopstown campus of the university. The project was awarded large-scale sport infrastructure fund funding of \u20ac9.2 million in January 2020 and additional funding in December 2023 of just over \u20ac5 million, bringing the total for the project to \u20ac14.3 million for all three phases. To date, we have seen \u20ac4.1 million of that drawn down. That is significant support for Cork, as well as across the country. We look forward to continuing to support clubs to develop their sporting facilities through future rounds. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I thank the Minister and fully agree with him there was a huge amount of funding provided last year and over the past ten years. It is a huge initiative for sports organisations. I find that for every euro the sports organisations get in grants, they raise another \u20ac5 through voluntary effort. The facilities provided have been superb.  An issue I want to focus on is large-scale housing development and forward planning. We do not appear to be doing enough work in that area. I ask that the Department would look at that. There is an area in my constituency, Glanmire, which has insufficient areas available for young people.  In fact, the local GAA clubs are coming to the point where they will have to make a choice as to whether to admit everyone who wants to come in or put a limit on that because of access issues. Some 30 acres have been lying idle for the last ten years. I know the FAI had it and is leasing it back to the local soccer club, but that is a project that could come under the large-scale projects scheme. There were two very good projects in Cork in 2024, one at Castleview soccer club and the other where Cork County Council has been working with the athletic club in Mallow. There was \u20ac3 million in funding between those two projects, which are very significant. However, Cork only got \u20ac3 million out of the \u20ac173 million total for the entire country.  Glanmire is an area where large-scale funding needs to be put in place to develop the facilities that are required for the very young population in that area. There are very good sports organisations there, working hard to cater for the increased population. Throughout the country, the Department needs to focus on making sure that sports facilities are put in place and that it is not just housing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  It has been wonderful in recent years to see the strong increase in participation across many sports and how that has been driven forward and facilitated by the wonderful volunteer ethos at local level in terms of organising and facilitating so much sports activity through clubs on an ongoing basis. There is also great work in terms of leveraging sports capital grants and developing those facilities. That is something we want to continue to back, as a Government, and I know it is something the Deputy wants to see continue in Cork. We will be reviewing the criteria for how we do future sports capital funding grant applications to make sure we are leveraging those funds as much as possible. We also want to make sure different clubs are coming together as much as possible at municipal facilities, for example, so we make the maximum use of the facilities that are being built to benefit as many people as possible in the local community. We have seen significant progress in Cork, and the Deputy mentioned Glanmire as somewhere he would like to see further funding go in. We will be looking at all of those and offering future opportunities to see how we can continue the work that is under way and the significant progress that has been made to date. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  If the Minister of State is in Cork at any stage, he might come to my home parish of Inniscarra, which has 50 acres of sports grounds. The rugby club, the soccer club, the GAA club and the camogie club all have their own individual pitches, all of which were developed over the past 25 to 30 years. They are very well planned facilities and are all together in one area. We need to do that where there are large urban developments, rather than taking a piecemeal approach where this is done literally when many of the younger population have grown up and moved out of the area. It is an issue we need to address.  I thank the Minister of State and the Department for the work they are doing and the way they have delivered, in particular in the last eight to ten years. On Monday of this week, I was at a sports club which is undertaking a \u20ac200,000 development. While I was there, the club was doing a walk to raise the remaining money it needs. It has the sports grant but it needs to raise the additional money. It is a huge community effort. The Department is also doing a very good job. It is important to plan for major, large-scale urban development. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  I would certainly be delighted to visit because it sounds like one of the prime examples of what is possible and how, by collaborating, we can maximise the impact of this investment. That is something we want to see more of across the country and, anywhere there is an opportunity to do that, to back it. We are also looking at how we can work in as strong a way as possible through integrating and working with schools and school settings so those facilities that might not otherwise be used often during the day, where possible, can be available close to the schools. It is about taking a strategic approach, continuing to back the wonderful work that clubs are doing and making sure the investment they are making, and the State is making to support them, is delivering the best possible return on participation in local communities and giving opportunities for people across all ages and capabilities to participate in sporting activity. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_25","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Arts Policy","counts":{"speechCount":11,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_25","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_25.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  The question relates to the second research report on the basic income for the arts pilot scheme. When will it be completed and when will a decision be made on the continuation or otherwise of the scheme? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  The programme for Government commits to assessing the basic income for the arts pilot research scheme to maximise its impact. The basic income for the arts pilot research scheme began with the first baseline survey in October 2022 and will conclude in August 2025. The data from the pilot will feed into Government consideration of the next steps. The Department is currently working on a report examining the first 24 months of the scheme and this report will be available before the end of the pilot. A further qualitative research paper, written by an independent researcher, will be published in the coming weeks. This paper collects the experiences of 50 recipients who have been interviewed by a sociologist. A cost-benefit analysis is also being undertaken at present.  While the research phase of the pilot scheme is still ongoing, it is clear from evidence collected to date under the scheme that it is having a positive impact on participants. Two impact papers have been published to date and are available on the basic income for the arts website on gov.ie . This data shows that the basic income for the arts payment is having a consistent, positive impact across almost all indicators, affecting practice development, sectoral retention, well-being and deprivation. Artists in receipt of the support are typically able to devote more time to their art, produce more pieces of work and experience a boost to their well-being through greater life satisfaction and reduced anxiety, and are protected from the precariousness of incomes in the sector to a greater degree than those who are not receiving the support.  I assure Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh and the sector that I fully appreciate the importance of basic income support for artists. I know there is broad-based support for the basic income for the arts research project in the House. I will be meeting shortly with the National Campaign for the Arts to hear its views on the scheme in detail. My officials met with the campaign on 25 April. I am acutely aware that the pilot is due to conclude in August and it is my intention to make an announcement on the next steps in the coming weeks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  It would be welcome that there is some type of confirmation of where next for the basic income for artists. It is to end in August, which is strange because it is a month earlier than the full three years, given it did not start until October 2022. The real question is the timeline. These reports are needed before an assessment can be fully made as to whether to continue this or extend it. While these reports are due at some stage between now and, I presume, budget day, can we be assured there will not be a cliff edge where the scheme ends and the funding finishes altogether? If that happens, those on the basic income scheme will see it end within the three years and there will be no additionality for them or income for those who are expecting to go on another scheme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I am conscious of the concerns that people in the scheme have. I pay tribute to my predecessor in this area, Catherine Martin, who did a huge amount of work to initiate the whole concept. It was born out of a time when the country was bedraggled, with Covid and everything else, but it has proven its worth in terms of the qualitative and quantitative amount of work that can be produced by people who, as I said in the earlier part of the response, are protected from worry about the precarious nature of their finances.  There are a number of steps that we have to take. First, there are a number of hurdles that I have to jump. As I said in my earlier response, I will hopefully be in a position shortly to make an announcement with regard to the scheme's future. I know the month of August is not that far away and people want to see certainty. It is my commitment to try to make sure we get the best possible outcome for the scheme going forward. It was a pilot but, as the Deputy will appreciate given he is the Chairman of an Oireachtas committee, we have the upcoming budget negotiations with regard to the 26 expenditure ceilings. This is a priority for me and for the Department, and I want to use the opportunity in the D\u00e1il today to make that clear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  There is concern out there and the Minister will probably get that when he meets the National Campaign for the Arts. Both his own party's manifesto and that of Fianna F\u00e1il promised to continue it, yet the programme for Government looks to assess it. That assessment is to be done between now and budget day, which is a very tight timeframe. If it falls, potentially at the end of August, that means there will be no basic income for artists until the budget gives effect to a new one or to something else.  The concern is this very tight timeframe. In the initial roll-out of the basic income for artists scheme it took many months for new participants to be assessed. If it were to be rolled out again it would create a lacuna at the end of August rather than a continuation, a new round of another 2,000 artists or an extension of it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh is right that a number of different things have to be considered. As Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh has said, these include whether it is the same group, a new group, a wider group, or a smaller group. All of this has to be assessed. The engagement I hope to have with the campaign will also help to inform me on this. Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh is also right that as two distinct political parties in advance of the election we made commitments on this. I am sure Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh will acknowledge that this was a very good scheme. It was introduced at a time when people did not expect it or fully understand what it would do but now can see what it has done and the value of it. My basic premise is to get the scheme, a scheme, or a version of the scheme continued. It would be very regressive if we did not have it. It will have to form part of budgetary discussions in the Department. I have five distinct areas of responsibility - arts, culture, communications, media and sports - and this is a priority for me with regard to the arts element of our budgetary discussions. I look forward to hearing the suggestions of the Opposition and I will engage with spokespersons, including Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh, off-line and outside of the House on their views on this and how the scheme could be changed, altered and improved. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Before I call on Deputy Malcolm Byrne to speak on Question No. 101, on behalf of Deputy Keira Keogh I welcome the students from Sancta Maria College in County Mayo and their teachers Mr. Connaughton and Ms Keane. They are very welcome to D\u00e1il Eireann and we hope they enjoy their day. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  Specifically on Question No. 101, I welcome the fact the Minister has stated clearly it is a priority to continue with the basic income for artists scheme. I agree with Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh that we are coming very quickly towards August. As a first priority for the 2,000 recipients of the basic income for artists scheme there needs to be an indication as to whether it will be continued for the same 2,000 people. We also need to have certainty on whether the current scheme will be extended or will it be opened to many more artists. I acknowledge the Minister's praise for the former Minister Catherine Martin on this. I welcome the Government's commitment on it but there is an urgency for the Government to make clear what will happen with the scheme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  I join the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in welcoming the students from County Mayo to see the D\u00e1il and their people's house in live action. They are very welcome. With regard to Deputy Byrne's questions I covered most of them when answering Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh but I can go back over them again. It is a priority of ours and it is in the programme for Government to do an evaluation. It was in the manifestoes that we would proceed with it. Obviously we will have budgetary discussions from the summer onwards, in which I will engage with the Ministers, Deputies Chambers and Donohoe, on expenditure and taxation measures in the Department. On top of this we have an evaluation we must conclude. Both Deputies would agree that the basic thing the D\u00e1il would expect would be to evaluate the existing scheme before I give any commitment one way or the other on a new scheme, a modified scheme or a continuation of a scheme. This work is under way and as soon as I have formulated all of this and gone through all of it, it is my intention to make an announcement fairly soon on the future of the scheme. I hope to be in a position to do this in a matter of weeks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I appreciate the answers the Minister has given and I appreciate that he will make an announcement. I understand he is awaiting the second report but in the first report, as the Minister acknowledged, quantitatively and qualitatively the basic income scheme for artists was viewed as a significant success. It is important for those in receipt of it that some indication is given to them as to whether after August they will be in a position to be able to continue with the basic income for artists scheme or whether the Minister plans to broaden it or restrict it. We are speaking about a couple of months and primarily for those on the scheme it is important to at least let them know what will happen. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  This is why I am doing what I am doing. I am going to try to do this as quickly as possible. All Deputies in all parties on both sides of the House would say it would be foolish in the extreme for me not to at least evaluate all of the reports that are available and will be available to the Department before I make a decision. As soon as I can do so I will do it and I will be back to the House. I am sure both Deputies will be forthright in their views once I have made a decision. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Arts Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_26","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Funding","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_26","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_26.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  This has been a really great time for Louth football. We had the Leinster final win by the under 20s against Meath, the minors won last night against Dublin and are now through to their Leinster final and, hopefully, an historic injustice will be righted on Sunday against Meath. I would say there is much support around the House on this. It is vital that the GAA stadium in Dundalk is delivered upon. While there has been good news from Croke Park, it is about ensuring the Government is playing its part in it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  I thank Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa. I know of the great excitement in the county this week in the run-up to the Leinster final this weekend. It has been added to by the under-age success, which has been wonderful to see and is a great reflection on the great work done by Louth GAA at all levels. I look forward to seeing the game this weekend. If it is half as dramatic as the previous one, I am sure it will grip the entire country.  With regard to Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa's query on the large-scale sports infrastructure fund application made by Louth GAA last year for a new stadium in Dundalk, he knows the background to this with regard to the fact there was no funding in this particular round. I welcome and note the recent announcement by Louth GAA that it has agreed a funding package to commence development of a new stadium in Dundalk. The large-scale sports infrastructure fund application was for the second part, or phase 2, of the stadium, with phase 1 commencing with the potential for a 4,000-seater stand. We had approximately \u20ac680 million of applications to the large-scale infrastructure fund last year, with \u20ac167 million awarded to 37 projects throughout the country. We are now assessing whether additional funding can become available and how a reserve list could potentially operate for those who were not successful in getting funding last year, and Louth GAA will be considered in this context. It is certainly welcome to see the recent announcement on Louth GAA being able to commence and having the finances to develop the new stadium, which I know will be of great benefit to it. I wish Louth GAA well with it and I look forward to engaging further with it on its plans and its future potential. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  The Minister of State might have an interest in a particular game at the weekend, I would imagine. We will all be glued on Saturday to the match between Armagh and Donegal. It should make for a very good weekend of football. I commend the work done by Louth GAA and the teams under Fergal Reel, Ger Brennan and Johnny Clerkin. I wish them the absolute best of luck and we all hope for a great game of football. From a Louth point of view, death or victory is what we require.  We all welcome the engagement and the package agreed for the first phase of development of the Louth GAA stadium in Dundalk. It is \u20ac24 million. I am aware that Louth GAA is on the reserve list for the scheme and I would like to think that decent consideration would be given to this. Does the Minister of State have any further update on the timeline and how projects on the reserve list, such as Louth GAA, could get further?  Even beyond that, what timeline are we looking at for the reopening of LSSIF into the future? The idea is to make sure that we are talking about projects that are ready for the road, that are fit to be built straightaway and that there are no delays with. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  The LSSIF was first announced with a funding round in 2019. It is a relatively new fund in that regard, with the objective of trying to ensure that the Government can work to support the development of large-scale sporting facilities across the country.  So far, we have had two rounds, in 2019 and 2024. Between both of those, \u20ac297 million has been invested, which is making a significant impact on the development of really good facilities across the country. We had 96 applications in the most recent round, 35 of which benefited from funding. The demand was much higher than the level of funding.  The potential for additional funding is something we have to consider. That is very much subject to the budgetary capacity for that and, alongside that, the capacity for a reserve list as well for those applicants not successful previously.  I know the benefit it would be to County Louth. It is great to see the stadium progressing and Louth GAA moving forward with it. Certainly, we will consider it in the context of future funding opportunities as well in phase 2. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  It is necessary that LSSIF funding would follow through for the stadium in Dundalk. My understanding was Louth GAA and Drogheda United were on that reserve list. The argument that was made was shovel-ready projects would get first dibs but given what is happening, particularly with Louth stadium, the first phase of which will be under way, we have to consider additional funding. We have to make sure that happens.  I want to find out whether my understanding is the case. Are we talking about the LSSIF being opened more regularly, that is, on a two- or three-year basis, and that we know that is happening? We know the huge piece of work that needs to be done not only with Drogheda United but, hopefully, with an opening for Dundalk FC, which also needs to have huge works done at Oriel Park. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charlie McConalogue  It will be very much dependent on funding. That is something on which we will have engagement in the budgetary process to see what the potential is.  The opening and announcement of new funding under the sports capital grant and the regional grants under the sports capital facilities fund have generally been every two years. I expect in the first part of next year to open up the sports facilities fund.  On the large-scale funding, there have only been two rounds so far, in 2019 and 2014. The funding requirement for that is heavy. It will certainly be our objective to try to do it within a shorter timeframe in terms of a new round but that will be entirely dependent on the budget as well.  The focus for now is making sure that those who receive funding move forward and in the short term, assessing the potential for additional funding or, in relation to those that were not successful in the most recent round, additional capacity. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sol\u00e1thar Tith\u00edochta","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_20","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_27.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  C\u00e9n obair at\u00e1 \u00e1 d\u00e9anamh ag an Aire chun sol\u00e1thair tith\u00edochta sa Ghaeltacht a fheabhs\u00fa? Is g\u00e9arch\u00e9im \u00e9 seo. Ar nd\u00f3igh, t\u00e1 g\u00e9arch\u00e9im tith\u00edochta ann ach t\u00e1 g\u00e9arch\u00e9im tith\u00edochta ar leith sa Ghaeltacht. C\u00e9n obair at\u00e1 \u00e1 d\u00e9anamh aige ina thaobh? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Mar is eol don Teachta, t\u00e1 c\u00faraim\u00ed na Gaeltachta agus na Gaeilge ag aistri\u00fa chuig an Aire, an Teachta Calleary. Bh\u00ed s\u00e9 le bheith anseo inniu ach n\u00ed raibh s\u00e9 in ann teacht go dt\u00ed an Teach inniu mar gheall ar ch\u00farsa\u00ed pearsanta. Rinne an Rialtas ord\u00fa D\u00e9 M\u00e1irt chun na feidhmeanna Gaeilge agus Gaeltachta a aistri\u00fa chuig an Roinn forbartha poibl\u00ed agus Gaeltachta. Tiocfaidh an t-ord\u00fa i bhfeidhm ar an 1 Meitheamh. Is \u00e9 an tAire, an Teachta Calleary, a thabharfaidh freagra\u00ed ar cheisteanna D\u00e1la a bhaineann leis na r\u00e9ims\u00ed seo as seo amach.  \u00d3 thaobh c\u00farsa\u00ed tith\u00edochta de, tuigfidh an Teachta go bhfuil cusp\u00f3ir uaillmhianach ag an Rialtas seo 300,000 teach a th\u00f3g\u00e1il roimh dheireadh 2030. Rachaidh an cusp\u00f3ir seo chun tairbhe in gach cearn den t\u00edr, an Ghaeltacht san \u00e1ireamh. T\u00e1 cainteanna ar si\u00fal idir an Roinn tith\u00edochta agus oifigigh na Roinne Gaeltachta maidir le plean\u00e1il i gceantair Ghaeltachta. T\u00e1 gr\u00fapa oibre bunaithe ag an d\u00e1 Roinn, mar aon le h\u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta agus \u00fadar\u00e1is \u00e1iti\u00fala, chun an cheist seo a scr\u00fad\u00fa.  Mar chuid den obair seo, t\u00e1 an Roinn Tith\u00edochta, Rialtais \u00c1iti\u00fail agus Oidhreachta ag dr\u00e9acht\u00fa treoirl\u00ednte plean\u00e1la Gaeltachta faoi l\u00e1thair, ag teacht le gealltanas a tugadh sa chl\u00e1r Rialtais. Ina theannta sin, t\u00e1 \u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta ag fiosr\u00fa beala\u00ed faoi l\u00e1thair chun tac\u00fa le sol\u00e1thar tith\u00edochta sna ceantair Ghaeltachta. Cuirtear in i\u00fal dom go bhfuil an t-\u00fadar\u00e1s ag pl\u00e9 leis na p\u00e1irtithe leasmhara \u00e1bhartha ar fad maidir leis an gceist r\u00edth\u00e1bhachtach seo. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire. C\u00e9 go dtuigim gurb \u00e9 an tAire, an Teachta Calleary, a bheidh i gceannas ar na c\u00farsa\u00ed seo, t\u00e1 an tAire, an Teachta O\u2019Donovan, ag bord an Rialtais. T\u00e1 muid ag pl\u00e9 le g\u00e9arch\u00e9im thith\u00edochta sa Ghaeltacht le tamall fada. T\u00e1 m\u00e9 tar \u00e9is freagra ar cheist D\u00e1la a fh\u00e1il ar ais at\u00e1 ag r\u00e1 nach bhfuil muid cinnte c\u00e9n uair a fhoilseofar na dr\u00e9acht-treoirl\u00ednte plean\u00e1la Gaeltachta, c\u00e9 gur gealladh iad in 2021. C\u00e9 go dtuigim gur Rialtas nua \u00e9 seo, t\u00e1 an d\u00e1 ph\u00e1irt\u00ed, Fianna F\u00e1il agus Fine Gael, ar\u00eds i gcumhacht. Bh\u00ed siad chun an c\u00e1ip\u00e9is a fhoilsi\u00fa, ach n\u00edl s\u00ed foilsithe. N\u00edl aon am luaite anois maidir le c\u00e9n uair a bheidh na treoirl\u00ednte foilsithe.  T\u00e1 fadhb ollmh\u00f3r ann i gcomhth\u00e9acs na seirbh\u00eds\u00ed do su\u00edomhanna ionas gur f\u00e9idir t\u00f3g\u00e1il orthu. N\u00edl na serviced sites ann in \u00e1iteanna cos\u00fail le deisceart Chonamara n\u00f3 fi\u00fa don chomhairle contae \u00e9 f\u00e9in i nGaillimh. C\u00e9n plean at\u00e1 ag an Aire ina leith ionas gur f\u00e9idir tith\u00edocht a chur ar f\u00e1il? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Mar a d\u00fairt m\u00e9 leis an Teachta Connolly n\u00edos luaithe ar maidin, bh\u00ed an tAire, an Teachta Calleary, d\u00f3chasach go mbeadh s\u00e9 anseo chun na ceisteanna sin a fhreagairt ach t\u00e1 c\u00farsa\u00ed pearsanta aige faoi l\u00e1thair agus n\u00edl s\u00e9 in ann teacht go dt\u00ed an Teach ar maidin. T\u00e1 cruinni\u00fa aige an tseachtain seo chugainn le h\u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta chun an \u00e1bhar a phl\u00e9. T\u00e1 an-suim aige i gc\u00farsa\u00ed tith\u00edochta. T\u00e1 limist\u00e9ar Gaeltachta ina Dh\u00e1ilcheantar i gContae Mhaigh Eo freisin. T\u00e1 an-suim aige san \u00e1bhar sin. Tuigim c\u00e9 chomh t\u00e1bhachtach is at\u00e1 s\u00e9. Chaith m\u00e9 tr\u00e9imhse i m\u2019Aire St\u00e1it agus an Ghaeltacht faoi mo ch\u00faram. Tuigim c\u00e9 chomh t\u00e1bhachtach is at\u00e1 na c\u00farsa\u00ed seo. Ar aon n\u00f3s, beidh an tAire, an Teachta Calleary, ar ais ar\u00eds an tseachtain seo chugainn. Beidh cruinni\u00fa aige leis an \u00fadar\u00e1s agus beidh m\u00e9 in ann labhairt leis ar an \u00e1bhar seo le go mbeidh s\u00e9 in ann teacht ar ais chuig an Teachta chun an t-\u00e1bhar seo a phl\u00e9 l\u00e9i. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  Tuigim c\u00e1s an Aire. T\u00e1 s\u00fail agam go bhfuil chuile sh\u00f3rt all right leis. T\u00e1 c\u00fapla rud is f\u00e9idir leis an Rialtas seo d\u00e9anamh - ruda\u00ed gur ch\u00f3ir go nd\u00e9anfadh an Rialtas deireanach i nd\u00e1ir\u00edre \u2013 lena n-\u00e1ir\u00edtear na dr\u00e9acht-treoirl\u00ednte plean\u00e1la Gaeltachta a fhoilsi\u00fa l\u00e1ithreach ionas gur f\u00e9idir comhairli\u00fach\u00e1in poibl\u00ed a bheith againn agus na treoirl\u00ednte iad f\u00e9in a bheith againn ina dhiaidh sin. Chomh maith leis sin, bh\u00ed s\u00e9 r\u00e1ite againn i Sinn F\u00e9in agus ag mo chomhghleaca\u00ed, an Teachta \u00d3 Snodaigh, gur ch\u00f3ir go mbeadh ciste airgid i gcomhair maoinithe do thith\u00edocht sa Ghaeltacht mar t\u00e1 g\u00e9arch\u00e9im ar leith ann.  Chonaic muid an m\u00e9id a bh\u00ed r\u00e1ite ag Uisce \u00c9ireann an tseachtain seo nach bhfuil an t-airgead aige agus go bhfuil poll airgid aige i nd\u00e1ir\u00edre. M\u00e1 t\u00e1 muid d\u00e1ir\u00edre go mbeidh su\u00edomhanna agus na seirbh\u00eds\u00ed sa Ghaeltacht, i gceantair cos\u00fail le deisceart Chonamara, mar n\u00ed f\u00e9idir t\u00f3g\u00e1il muna bhfuil na seirbh\u00eds\u00ed ann, muna bhfuil an t-airgead ag Uisce \u00c9ireann lena dh\u00e9anamh, t\u00e1 muid i bponc agus n\u00ed bheidh muid in ann br\u00fa ar aghaidh. Is iad sin tr\u00ed rud a d\u2019iarramar. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Tuigim an fhadhb. T\u00e1 a fhios ag an Teachta, nuair a bh\u00ed m\u00e9 i m\u2019Aire St\u00e1it le c\u00faraim\u00ed na Gaeltachta agus na Gaeilge f\u00fam, rinne m\u00e9 mo dh\u00edcheall an t-\u00e1bhar sin a phl\u00e9 agus a r\u00e9iteach. N\u00edl aon amhras agam ach gur ceist dheacair \u00ed. T\u00e1 an-chuid oibre d\u00e9anta ag an Roinn Gaeltachta agus an Roinn Tith\u00edochta, Rialtais \u00c1iti\u00fail agus Oidhreachta chun an \u00e1bhar sin a r\u00e9iteach. Mar a d\u00fairt m\u00e9 n\u00edos luaithe agus m\u00e9 ag labhairt leis an Teachta Connolly, t\u00e1 s\u00e9 seo ar ceann de na point\u00ed is t\u00e1bhachta\u00ed don Aire. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 ag iarraidh \u00e9 seo a phl\u00e9 amach agus a r\u00e9iteach le h\u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta agus leis an Roinn nua an tseachtain seo chugainn. B\u2019fh\u00e9idir go mbeidh s\u00e9 in ann teacht ar ais chuig na Teachta\u00ed Farrell agus Connolly, agus chuig na Teachta\u00ed eile a bhfuil suim acu sa Ghaeltacht agus sa Ghaeilge, chun an \u00e1bhar sin a phl\u00e9. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  Go gairid ar an gceist seo, n\u00ed d\u00edreach na treoirl\u00ednte plean\u00e1la a bh\u00ed geallta d\u00fainn agus do Thithe an Oireachtais \u00f3 2021 ar aghaidh. T\u00e1 ceist mh\u00f3r ann maidir le tithe samhraidh agus Airbnb. I gcomhth\u00e9acs na rialacha nua at\u00e1 ann do Airbnb, n\u00ed rialacha nua iad mar n\u00ed bhaineann siad leo. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 sin ar cheann de na bunfhadhbanna. Fi\u00fa na tithe at\u00e1 sa Ghaeltacht, n\u00edl siad ar f\u00e1il do phobal na Gaeltachta.  Caithfear d\u00e9ile\u00e1il leis sin. N\u00ed g\u00e1 go nd\u00e9anfaidh na treoirl\u00ednte plean\u00e1la Gaeltachta d\u00e9ile\u00e1il leis sin in aon chor. T\u00e1 ceist eile ann maidir le ciste infreastrucht\u00fair ar leith do cheantair Ghaeltachta. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Patrick O'Donovan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Patrick-O'Donovan.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Patrick O'Donovan  Aonta\u00edm leis an m\u00e9id at\u00e1 r\u00e1ite ag an Teachta \u00d3 Snodaigh maidir le c\u00e9 chomh t\u00e1bhachtach is at\u00e1 an t-\u00e1bhar sin. Bh\u00ed ceist eile aige ar an \u00e1bhar sin ach t\u00e1 an t-am caite againn. Beidh ar an Aire, an Teachta Calleary, d\u00e9ile\u00e1il leis an \u00e1bhar sin sa Bhille at\u00e1 os comhair na D\u00e1la faoi l\u00e1thair. D\u00fairt s\u00e9 liom go mbeidh s\u00e9 in ann \u00e9 sin a phl\u00e9 le hurlabhraithe Gaeltachta agus Gaelainne na bp\u00e1irtithe uile sa D\u00e1il. Beidh s\u00e9 in ann an obair sin a dh\u00e9anamh tar \u00e9is cruinnithe a bheith aige le h\u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta agus leis na h\u00fadar\u00e1is \u00e1iti\u00fala a bhfuil suim acu san \u00e1bhar sin, mar shampla, Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe agus Comhairle Contae Mhaigh Eo, comhairle contae an Aire f\u00e9in. Beidh s\u00e9 ar ais ar\u00eds an tseachtain seo chugainn agus beidh s\u00e9 ag d\u00e9ile\u00e1il leis an \u00e1bhar sin. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sol\u00e1thar Tith\u00edochta"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_28","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":38,"speakerCount":8},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_28","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paschal Donohoe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paschal-Donohoe.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Paschal-Donohoe.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  T\u00e1 a fhios againn go bhfuil oibrithe agus teaghlaigh ag streachailt cheana f\u00e9in le costais maireacht\u00e1la. D\u00e9anann an chaint seo ar tharaif\u00ed dochar do ghn\u00e1th-theaghlaigh tr\u00ed phraghsanna a ard\u00fa. N\u00ed f\u00e9idir leis an Rialtas seo oibrithe a thr\u00e9igean. T\u00e1 na hoibrithe seo faoi bhr\u00fa cheana f\u00e9in. T\u00e1 imn\u00ed orthu agus iad ag cloiste\u00e1il faoi chogadh tr\u00e1d\u00e1la sna nuacht\u00e1in.  Later today, we expect the President of the United States to announce a trade deal with Britain. This will be the first deal struck since the American Administration unveiled aggressive tariffs on its trading partners across the world, including here in the European Union. Those tariffs were latterly partially suspended to allow space for negotiations. We all know that it is through negotiations and cool heads that this issue will be resolved. This major change in US economic policy, particularly in the context of a trade deal with Britain, brings unique challenges here on the island of Ireland for cross-Border trade and our all-island economy. The Government needs to be alert and to act to ensure that post-Brexit gains and the progress made are protected so that the all-island economy can continue to grow and prosper.  The European Union is also set to launch its suite of countermeasures to the US tariffs today. We have warned that a tit-for-tat trade war between the United States and the European Union would not be in Ireland's interest. The ESRI and the Department of Finance have been clear that President Trump's tariffs are damaging and that countertariffs from the EU would make things worse through a hit to the public finances and to jobs and through pushing prices higher for Irish consumers. I hope the T\u00e1naiste has made Ireland's unique position very clear in his discussions with his EU counterparts. We need an outcome that protects Irish jobs, livelihoods and the future of our economy and the all-island economy. As I said, that requires cool heads and calm negotiations. It also requires a willingness on both sides to have meaningful negotiations.  We know that nobody wins in a trade war but it is always ordinary workers and families who suffer the most. Although the Government would like to pretend otherwise, the tariff uncertainty is happening as working people are dealing with an unprecedented cost-of-living crisis. Households are hit by soaring grocery prices and energy costs and record rents, and we saw yesterday how motorists are being fleeced by sharp increases in motor insurance. It is all going in one direction and that direction is up. To add insult to injury, just last week, the Government, in its wisdom, heaped more pressure on those families by increasing carbon tax, making it more expensive for those families to heat their homes and cook their food. It is madness in the context of a cost-of-living crisis. Ordinary people are already struggling and cannot afford a tit-for-tat tariff war. With all the pressure on households, what the Government has done is to rule out a cost-of-living package in the October budget. It appears the message from Government is that working people are on their own.  If that was not enough for working people to worry about, they heard from the Fine Gael Parliamentary Party that the prospect of countertariffs from the EU means that the Government may need to take difficult decisions. The T\u00e1naiste talks about difficult decisions. Unfortunately, the Irish people are all too familiar with difficult decisions. They have seen them time and time again. Just last week, we saw the Government prioritised CEOs and political insiders on massive salaries while ordinary workers were asked to wait longer for pay increases to bring them to a living wage.  What assessment has the T\u00e1naiste's Department done of the impact on prices and jobs from increasing tariffs and EU countermeasures? Can he assure the public that their interests and Ireland's interests will be reflected in the EU response to be announced today and that the all-Ireland economy will be protected? Does he accept that Irish people are living through a cost-of-living crisis and that certainty is needed that there will be a cost-of-living package in this year's budget? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I will begin where the Deputy began on trade, tariffs and the all-island all-Ireland economy. This morning, I spoke to the Deputy's colleague, my counterpart, the Minister for the Economy in the Northern Ireland Executive, Dr. Caoimhe Archibald. I thank her for ongoing engagement with me and for the way she is going about her business. We have agreed to meet by way of video conference either tomorrow or Monday once we have clarity on what is in the UK-US agreement. I use that word loosely because, quite frankly, we do not know at this stage if it is a full agreement. I have heard speculation that it is the heads of an agreement or a framework. It is important that we see what comes from that later today.  In all my engagements with the British Government, including when I met the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland 11 days ago, and in all my engagements at the European level, I am very clear that the unique position of this island and the north of this island needs to be factored into all discussions at EU level and with the US and in our ongoing discussions with the British Government. Of course, we can all point to the Windsor Framework and different mechanisms but to do so is to miss the point. Tariffs are not a good idea, full stop. The trade that happens across this island, between these islands and between this island and the US matters. I am absolutely committed to working in good faith with the Minister, Dr. Archibald, and with the Northern Ireland Executive. I know the Minister is also committed to doing so.  A number of things are going to happen this afternoon. The EU's response or next steps must be seen through the prism of four measures. The first and most important to note is that the European Union, of which Ireland is a proud member, wants to negotiate. We do not want to be in a tit-for-tat tariff war. I agree with the Deputy on that. Tariffs are bad for everybody. There are no winners in a tariff war. I therefore believe the EU is right to have intensified its engagement with the United States in recent days and in the proposals we are making to find a way forward. The Deputy's question is a fair one: do we have interlocutors who are willing to do a deal? We have to keep working on that. We have to support the work of Maro\u0161 \u0160ef\u010dovi\u010d, the EU's Commissioner for trade, who is doing a very good job in this area. That is step one. We must reach out with proposals, engage in good faith, try to get an agreement and use the 90-day pause.  The second measure is countermeasures. I take the point that tariffs are not good for anyone. I get that. That is absolutely true. However, from a negotiating point of view, we do have to negotiate from a position of strength. Irish people get that. We cannot go into talks with our hands swinging and asking nicely for a deal. We have to say that we want a deal and want zero tariffs for zero tariffs but that the European Union is a market of 460 million people and will look at responding in other areas if we have to. It is important to say a couple of things about the list of countermeasures that will be published today. The first is that it is going to be a very long list. The second is that none of this will come in anytime soon. It will go out for public consultation until at least 10 June. Even when that public consultation closes, the Commission will need to do more work before it even reaches a decision-making mechanism within the European Union. We need to apply the \"cool heads\" the Deputy mentioned to our response to the countermeasures. Ultimately, I want to see the countermeasures list ripped up and never coming into effect because we have reached an agreement. The third measure the European Union should consider and that I expect it will is to take a dispute to the WTO. The United States is not in compliance with World Trade Organization rules. Rules matter and membership of the WTO matters. The fourth measure we have to take at European level is to continue to watch for what is often called \"dumping\", which is the idea that lots of extra goods may come to our markets from other parts of the world because of actions taken by the US.  I expect the EU to also monitor this very closely. Those are the four areas where we are likely to see monitoring.  I would like to offer Opposition parties a further briefing with the Government next week. We should continue to work hand in glove on this. I will also attend the meeting of EU trade Ministers in Brussels next Thursday. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I thank the T\u00e1naiste and we will definitely take him up on that briefing. There are two points here. We know that tariffs increase prices on consumers but even if there were no tariffs there is a cost of living crisis. I really think that the Government does not get it. Whatever way the Government dresses it up, last week it actually heaped more pressure on families through the carbon tax. It makes it more expensive for people to heat their homes. It makes it more expensive to cook their food. This is at a time when they are struggling with grocery prices, rent, insurance and so on.  With regard to the countermeasures that come from the European Union, I presume the T\u00e1naiste's office has been engaged with them or has had sight of them. Will he give us an early assessment of the impact of those measures in Ireland, if they were to come to pass? We all hope that they will never come to pass? However, the T\u00e1naiste told his parliamentary party meeting that we may face difficult decisions, so I am very concerned. In the past, the Government used the issue of tariffs in the context of low-paid workers having to wait longer while at the same time the Government is preparing to increase CEO salaries right across semi-State boards, and protecting the insiders such as we have seen in terms of Brendan McDonagh's salary and all of the rest. I want the T\u00e1naiste to answer that question. I presume he has seen the countermeasures coming from the European Union. Are they in Ireland's interests? From his initial assessment does he believe they protect the all-island economy or do they challenge it further? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  If we get to a place where countermeasures have to be introduced by the European Union, this will not be good for the European Union and it will not be good for the US. It will not be good for the economies in Europe or in the US because it is almost impossible to publish a list that does not have an impact in every single member state. The list will be broad, and it will include industrial products and a whole variety of issues. I expect it to run to more than 200 pages. I have not formally seen it and it will have to be assessed. It will take a period of time to assess it but there is the time. Unlike President Trump, we are not saying \"Here is the list and it comes in tomorrow or in 30 days\". We are saying that here is a list of measures we do not want to take, that we want to have them prepared in case, and that we want to consult and we want to engage. There will be consultation until at least 10 June so nothing will change in the here and now.  Yes, I did tell my parliamentary party what I tell the Irish people and what I did say during the general election, and what the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, says regularly too, that if we get to a situation where President Trump's agenda of high tariffs and protectionism takes hold and there is no improvement, that will have an effect on our economy. We do have to navigate that challenge. The Deputy asked what this effect looks like. In fairness, it is outlined in the progress report published by the Minister yesterday in terms of what the economic growth looks like, what job creation looks like and the different levels we would be at in that scenario compared to a scenario where there is a free flow of trade. We will keep working at this calmly and, as the Deputy said, with cool heads. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  The Israeli blockade on Gaza is now in its third month. No food, no water and no medicines have crossed into Gaza in that time. The only things that Israel has sent in are bombs and bullets. As it slowly starves the civilian population, it has continued its relentless bombardment. Yesterday alone at least 59 people were killed in air strikes on two schools. People huddling together in a school, terrified and hungry, were targeted yet again by this murderous regime and still the international community does nothing.  Netanyahu and his government have been clear in their words and deeds. Its expressed goal is the annihilation and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people, and they are not hiding it. They do not care how many innocent men, women and children are killed in Gaza. They do not view them as human and they do not care about their suffering. The genocide they are committing is not a secret. It is happening out in the open as world leaders stand by and do nothing.  We have seen nearly two years of relentless barbarism by the Israeli state in Gaza. No one can claim to be surprised anymore by the depths of its depravity. What is shocking though is the continued silence, hypocrisy and inaction from those in power. Last week the EU President Ursula von der Leyen announced the EU was sending help to the region. This, however, was not to assist children in Gaza who are starving or being burned alive in tents. It was to help extinguish forest fires in Israel. She said that this was EU solidarity in action. There is EU solidarity for forest fires but not for the men, women and children starving in Gaza.  On \"The Late Late Show\" last Friday the T\u00e1naiste said he did not believe weapons are being flown through Irish airspace on their way to Israel. On what basis did he make this claim? Recognising the gravity of what is happening in Gaza, he also said that we have to do more. Specifically what more will he do? He also confirmed that passing a law relating to the occupied territories is going to take place. Yet, the Government did not commit to passing the occupied territories Bill, which was our legislation with the same aims. We are now five months into this Government and no closer to enacting this crucial Bill. There are reports today that the T\u00e1naiste has not yet even sought approval from Cabinet for drafting the legislation and that when he does, he intends to exclude services from the ban. Enacting legislation to ban trade from the occupied territories was a key commitment of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael during the election. Why is the T\u00e1naiste dragging his feet on this? Why is he proposing to water down the Bill by excluding services? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I am not dragging my feet. Regardless of our political persuasion or whichever party we are in, or whether the people watching from home support Government parties, Opposition parties or neither, people in this country are sickened, appalled and disgusted by what we are seeing in what Israel has done in Gaza and what the Israeli Government, as the Deputy rightly said, is very openly and blatantly proposing to do in relation to Gaza. That does require all of us to do more and I include Ireland in that.  I do not share the Deputy's view of what Europe has done to date. The European Union, of which Ireland is a part, has provided very significant financial assistance to UNRWA on a multi-annual basis, only agreed a couple of weeks ago at the first EU-Palestinian high level dialogue, to help support the Palestinian Authority. Action is being taken on that but Israel is not listening. Nothing that has happened to date has changed the situation here in terms of Israel actually showing restraint, or issuing statements calling for restraint, when there is a government in Israel that plans doing the exact opposite.  What we are doing here at a national level is continuing to work at EU level. That makes sense. I said this to Senator Black yesterday. If this is about having impact and applying maximum pressure to help bring about a ceasefire, a cessation of violence and a two-state solution, the EU living up to its obligations under the human rights clauses of the association agreement is what has to happen.  I was interested yesterday to see the Netherlands join Ireland's and Spain's call for this to happen. In the hours ahead I intend to speak to counterparts to see if more countries will come on board and echo Ireland's call. The human rights clauses in trade agreements or association agreements are not there for padding. They are not there to make the agreement longer. They are not discretionary extras and they have to count for something. We are all pretty furious that they do not seem to count for something at the moment. We will continue to work at that.  Let me be clear that we are going to take forward legislation on the occupied Palestinian territories. The programme for Government is clear on that. We intend to honour that. I had a very good meeting with Senator Frances Black yesterday. She is a very good person and her motive here is to try to do some good. At that meeting I committed to going to the Government this month to seek a decision to move forward on that. We will have a longer time to discuss the contents of what is in that legislation but I will have to be honest in only being able to put something in the legislation that will stand up to legal scrutiny and that is in compliance with the laws by which we have to operate. There is a benefit of publishing a Government Bill and going to an Oireachtas committee. I will not speak for the Senator but I think she saw the benefit in this too, which is the opportunity to actually tease this out and to bring in people and hear different perspectives, to get the best legislation possible. I hope that in Ireland bringing forward legislation it might encourage and spur other countries to say, \"We could do that too\". If the EU refuses to act as a collective on this, why do a number of member states not do what we are proposing to do here in Ireland? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I put a couple of questions to the T\u00e1naiste that he has not answered. The key issue is that EU humanitarian aid is not getting into Gaza because the actions that need to be taken by the international community to ensure it happens are not being taken. People in Gaza cannot wait any longer; they need action now.  The Government must do everything it can to stop munitions going through Irish airspace. According to The Ditch ,  Israel's national carrier brought 1,500 kg of arms through Irish airspace last year labelling them as weapons in their paperwork.  Have these reports been investigated? Why is the Government not acting to stop the illegal transfer of weapons through Irish airspace? With regard to the occupied territories Bill, I ask specifically about the inclusion of services. The T\u00e1naiste knows very well that international trade is not just about goods; it is also about services. Why are services not being included in the proposed legislation? There is no legal basis for excluding services. It is a key part of trade. That is the commitment the T\u00e1naiste made during the election on the occupied territories Bill and trade. He did not exclude services. Why is he reneging on that promise now? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  It is not a matter of reneging on anything. I do not mind saying in this House, and I would be very happy to engage and share this more fully, but the legal advice available to me is that there is a narrow pathway - and it is a narrow pathway - under the ICJ advisory opinion for member states to seek to move ahead unilaterally, for want of a better phrase. We have not yet been able to identify the narrow pathway on services. That is the truth. It is not a policy position; it is a legal position. However, as I said to Senator Black, who has a different legal position, is that we are happy to engage on this. There is not a policy difference or policy objective differences; there truthfully is not. However, there is a need to make sure any Bill can withstand the inevitable challenge that this will face. I am happy to work through this.  Regarding the issue of Irish airspace, I did honestly say that it is hard to have the level of knowledge that I think we all need to have in terms of what happens in our skies. I do not just mean in our skies, but more internationally. I did say that we will have to look and consider whether we need to change domestic legislation and whether we need to work at an international level in terms of the legislation and covenants, many of which date back to the 1940s, that govern this as well. We have clear laws regarding what can and cannot go through Irish sovereign territory and the requirement to seek an exemption from the Minister for Transport, and that, of course, is the point of reference I was making. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  These are the T\u00e1naiste's words:  Children are starving. Basic painkilling medicine cannot be accessed. Hospitals are being bombed and the scale of death and destruction in Gaza is almost unimaginable. It is certainly unconscionable. Famine is a real risk for many Gazans and children are even dying as we speak ... We cannot and will not stand idly by and let this happen.  These are the T\u00e1naiste's words, but standing by is exactly what the Government is doing regarding the thousands of tonnes of weaponry flown through Irish sovereign airspace since October 2023 to the Israeli military, namely, F-35 combat jet components, munitions from Lockheed Martin and IMI Systems, missile launchers, Smith and Wesson handguns, ammunition primer, detonator, detonating fuses and teargas. I could go on. Multiple airlines are doing it repeatedly, namely, Lufthansa, Delta Airlines, FedEx, Challenge, Silk Way Airlines and EL AL. They are flown without permission from the Irish State. It is a criminal offence which carries a three-year prison sentence for the owner or hirer of the aircraft. The T\u00e1naiste is not just turning a blind eye to it; he is gaslighting us about it. He told the D\u00e1il last June that \"no ... Irish sovereign airspace is being used to transport weapons to the conflict in the Middle East.\" Last Friday, on \"The Late Late Show\", the T\u00e1naiste said he does not believe that Irish skies are being used to transport weapons to Israel. Now he tells the D\u00e1il that it is hard to have the level of knowledge that we need to have about these flights. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  That is what it is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  How could the T\u00e1naiste say these things? The Ditch has informed him, and I am very happy to pass over a folder of waybills from the airlines themselves. We do not need to investigate it; the airlines themselves are declaring that they are carrying weapons. These have been sent to the T\u00e1naiste repeatedly, not just after the fact, but in advance of the fact. One of the receipts I have here from FedEx clearly lists the tracking number and flags it as international traffic in arms regulations, ITAR, goods. On 23 October 2024, The Ditch emailed the T\u00e1naiste, stating:  We wish to advise you that FedEx flight FDX4 ... from Memphis to Cologne is carrying at least three munitions of war packages for delivery to Nevatim IDF Air Base in Israel. This aircraft departed Memphis just over an hour ago, and its flight plan indicates it will enter Irish sovereign airspace this afternoon.  [...]  FedEx has designated the three packages - which we understand are Lockheed Martin F-35 combat jet components - as ... (ITAR) goods. The F-35 is a weapon of war used by the [IDF] to kill civilians - including journalists - in Gaza.  The T\u00e1naiste knows about it. Why does he say he does not believe it is happening? Is he claiming he has not received this evidence? Or is he saying that he has received this evidence but that he thinks the airlines are somehow, for some reason, lying about having weapons and munitions on their planes? Is the T\u00e1naiste going to act? Will he keep saying the world needs to act, that we need to do more and cannot stand idly by, and then continue to precisely stand idly by while weapons go through Irish airspace to be used for a genocide? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor D. McGuinness  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I think this is probably the only Parliament in the world where Members of the Parliament stand up and suggest that the Irish Government's position is anything other than supportive of the people of Palestine. It is usually quite the opposite, in fact. Any of us who attend international meetings and forums will know that Ireland is usually seen as almost an outlier - worryingly, perhaps - in terms of our level of support for international law, for human rights, for the people of Palestine, for a two-state solution and in calling out, as our Taoiseach did, the war crimes being committed by Israel. Coming to this Chamber, I get a completely different representation. Ireland is not standing idly by. Deputy Murphy quoted my words, I think, of this Tuesday. Ireland is not standing idly by. Ireland has already outlined even more steps that this country intends to take, both domestically and internationally, with regard to supporting the people of Palestine, but more profoundly, in terms of supporting international law and human rights. We continue to do that and will continue to do that at every opportunity.  Deputy Murphy also said I said something earlier as though I said it for the first time. I also said it on Friday night in the interview to which he referred, that we do need to have a better understanding and knowledge as to what happens above our skies and indeed below our seas. I find it somewhat ironic that the Deputy who raises this issue is the same Deputy who would oppose any increase in defence spending to increase the capabilities of \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann in terms of monitoring what happens in our skies and below our seas, because that is exactly what we need to do. The Deputy can shake his head if he wants----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  They are on the waybills. I can give them to the T\u00e1naiste----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I know----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  They are admitting it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paschal Donohoe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paschal-Donohoe.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Paschal-Donohoe.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paschal Donohoe  Too busy standing up to journalists. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  We do not need aircraft to find out about it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  The T\u00e1naiste to continue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  They are telling the T\u00e1naiste that they are carrying weapons----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Deputy Murphy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  -----and he is not doing anything about it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Murphy for shouting me down again. I know his party is having difficulty this week as they will not take questions from some journalists if they do not like the questions. When he comes to the House, he asks me a question and will not allow me to answer it. He does not take questions from some and does not accept answers from others. Do not shout me down, please, on an important issue.  With regard to this situation, I have made it very clear what Irish law states. As a Government Minister and a leader in Government, we obviously rely on the laws of our land. The laws are very clear with regard to the Air Navigation (Carriage of Munitions of War, Weapons and Dangerous Goods) Orders of 1973 and 1989, that expressly prohibits civil aircraft from carrying munitions of war in Irish sovereign territory without being granted an exemption to do so by the Minister for Transport.  I have also made the point that it is one thing about what people wish to inspect when it is on the ground but, when a plane is at 30,000 ft or 35,000 ft in the air, I would be very interested in hearing from the Deputy his practical and implementable solutions in terms of what more we can do. I do not say that, by the way, in any flippant way, because, to be very clear, I think we need to do more on this and that we need to see change internationally regarding this. This being dictated from international covenants and agreements of the 1940s does not reflect the reality today. I also think we need to have better clarity and understanding around munitions and parts, and absolute clarity as to what needs to be declared, because the law of this country is clear and robust in terms of Irish sovereign airspace, but then there are also the practicalities in terms of the implementation. Work is ongoing in the Department of Transport. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, confirmed that to me again as recently as this morning, in terms of what more measures Ireland needs to take with regard to our own law or what more measures Ireland needs to seek to take internationally. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  We can see the T\u00e1naiste's studied, deliberate and false ignorance, pretending that he does not know what is going on and suggesting we need to have aircraft to inspect commercial airlines in the sky over Ireland. What is he suggesting? Again, it is very simple. I am really happy to give these waybills from the aircraft to the T\u00e1naiste that repeatedly show that thousands of tonnes of weaponry have gone through Irish airspace on the way to be used in a genocide in Gaza. This is not a mystery; the airlines admit it.  A few months ago, the previous Government had some sort of examination in the Department of Transport. What happened to that examination? The T\u00e1naiste wants to know my practical solution. My practical solution is that the Minister for Transport should prosecute the companies. It is the law. They are currently breaking the law. I will give the T\u00e1naiste another suggestion, which actually came from the now Taoiseach. Miche\u00e1l Martin said last September that there had to be consequences for airlines that do this, that they should not be allowed to----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  -----fly through our airspace if they violate these basic laws. Does the T\u00e1naiste agree with that? Is he going to act to stop----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy Murphy "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  -----Silk Way, Challenge, Delta and Lufthansa continuing to fly? We actually need action----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  You might observe the laws of the House, Deputy, please. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Would the T\u00e1naiste like me to drop these over to him, the emails and so on, in order that he has them? Does he need them? Would he like me to drop them over to him? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I will wait until the Deputy is finished. I thank him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I will drop them over to him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  He is coming over to me. I thank the Deputy for that but, obviously, the process through which the Government will go is examining the allegations. The Department of Transport is examining them. I agree that any breaches of Irish law must of course have a consequence. Irish law matters. I am very clear on that, as is the Taoiseach and the Minister for Transport. If there have been breaches of Irish sovereign law, decisions will need to be taken on the next steps based on clear and robust evidence. We also need to be clear - and this is the point I was trying to make - that if existing legislation does not provide for the implemention of a system of routine and random inspections but rather requires that there first be an appearance of intention or likelihood for a civil aircraft to depart from a point in the State in a manner that would contravene the legislation, for example, carrying munitions, it is a legitimate question for the Government. I will consider whether we need to amend our domestic legislation and whether more needs to happen internationally. I am very clear that any breach of Irish law cannot be consequence-free. I agree with the Deputy on that. The Department of Transport is carrying out a robust examination of all these matters and it would advise the Government on what next steps are required. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  I was at a presentation by Haven Horizons yesterday in the audiovisual room, as were others. This domestic, sexual and gender-based violence prevention centre does wonderful work - without proper State funding, I might add, something that needs to be looked at. At the discussion afterwards, an issue I was mulling over came up, and that was the contribution that social media make to such violent and coercive activity, where young boys especially are given unfiltered access to the most misogynistic material, where Andrew Tate and the self-proclaimed Irish patriarchal patriot Andrew Tayto and other pathetic excuses for real men become, through algorithms designed to entice and excite, the substitute male role models for an online generation. It is not just about boys; all our children are being sent the wrong messages about how to treat one another. They all want to be on TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram, Discord and other platforms and there is huge social media pressure - call it FOMO if you will - to be included with one's peers in the online world.  Social media are having a profound impact on the mental health of young people in Ireland, linked to an increase in anxiety and depression as our young people try to compare themselves with others. There is this unrealistic lifestyle perpetuated by celebrities and influencers which can affect the most impressionable in a very bad way. We have always been challenged by bullying behaviour in the real world, but it has been magnified by social media platforms where individuals can anonymously harass and intimidate the target or sometimes do it as part of a group pile-on, where someone is bullied or excluded, including, unfortunately, so many incidences where young people - and I have recent examples in my constituency - have been told bluntly to harm or even kill themselves. We have had sometimes tragic results in this country. We complain about how lack of regulation has turned social media into a cesspit for adults, but for children it is worse. We have vulnerable developing minds, in some ways, yes, more clued in than older generations to scams and spam, but at the same time less discerning as to how they access news content, what they share with their peers and what they learn from inappropriate access to adult content without any context or filters.  Calls for regulation have not worked so we need to move to the next level. At this point, as a legislator, I believe we should seriously explore what they are doing in Australia, a liberal country, where the world's strictest laws on social media have been enacted for under-16s, to come into being 12 months from now. They have to look at different ways of doing it. Is it not time we looked at doing something similar? It is not a panacea and there are drawbacks, but our children must come first, not the super-rich tech barons currently prostrating themselves before the Trump Administration. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Deputy Gogarty is right in pretty much every word he said. This is an area that requires a lot more action and, as we have said before, and we mean it by our actions at both an EU and a domestic level, the era of self-regulation is over. We were talking about trade and tariffs a few moments ago; let us talk about another thing - values. Our values in this country and our values as Europeans matter too. Regulating social media companies - companies that can do good - is really important. Getting this right is really important, as is not being browbeaten by anybody in any part of the world in terms of having a regulatory structure in place that protects our democracies, protects our people, crucially, and, most importantly, protects our children and our vulnerable citizens.  We are not where we need to be in this regard. Being a parent today is even more complex and challenging a job than it has been in the past. It always has been, no doubt, but that idea of your child having nearly a better knowledge of technology than you have and you running to try to keep up with them is a source of huge concern for parents right across the country.  The Deputy is right that we need to look at what other countries are doing. My colleague, the Minister, Patrick O'Donovan, beside me has asked his officials to do exactly what the Deputy suggests, to look at what other countries like Australia are doing. Australia deserve great credit for the steps they are considering. I have been looking into this recently. They have given themselves a bit of a lead-in period because they are working on how you practically implement some of the measures they would like to implement around age verification.  What is very clear is that we have a digital age of consent in Ireland and it is 16 and, in my view, there are what amount to workarounds that have been found that mean that while we say there is a digital age of consent of 16, there are so many kids now on social media well before that. CyberSafeKids alarmingly reveals that 84% of under-12s have their own social media accounts or instant messaging accounts, despite the minimum age restriction being 13 on the most popular apps, and around 93% of eight-to-12-year-olds have their own smart device. This is a ticking timebomb. We need to get serious in terms of empowering and supporting parents. We need to tackle that FOMO of \"I must do it because somebody else of my age also has a smartphone or is on social media\". Now, with the existence of Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n, and with, as the Deputy said, the experiences from other countries, this is an area that we should act on. Very serious consideration should be given to the idea of having to be 16 before you are on social media and aligning that with the digital age of consent in Ireland, which is also 16. We should work constructively across parties, perhaps through the new committee structures and the likes that will exist in this House, to really scrutinise this, to learn from other jurisdictions and to use the resources we now have through the European legislative infrastructure to take steps that will support our children. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  In early 2023, the Taoiseach, Miche\u00e1l Martin, said that parents know best when it comes to banning youngsters from social media or imposing phone restrictions. That was in response to touted legislation in the UK that was less stringent than the Australian model being touted. However, teachers, who see the impact first hand in the classrooms, will beg to differ. The T\u00e1naiste, the original TikTok Taois, as he has been called, said last year as well as today that the era of social media giants regulating themselves is over, so I understand how seriously he takes this, but let us regulate them. If we cannot protect our children adequately, we have to make sure they live safer lives by banning use. If you start at 16, it might help the 12- or 13-year-olds. Maybe a citizens' convention on this issue could be held. There are risks, of course, that some will go to the dark web or use VPNs to circumvent restrictions if what we do is not sufficient, but we need to show leadership rather than hide behind laborious EU initiatives. We brought in the smoking ban; why can we not get moving on a ban on social media as well? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Deputy Gogarty is not doing this, but sometimes we can blame the European Union. The European Union has given us pretty decent legislative infrastructure here. It is now up to member states, including Ireland, to decide how we wish to utilise that. The era of self-regulation is over beyond my just saying it in the sense that there are now codes in place and there is now an ability to fine companies that do not comply with the codes. I am genuinely concerned about the age verification piece. Of course, we must empower and entrust parents. Parents raising their children is something we all agree with, but we also know as parents that you can support parents through your laws. In my hometown of Greystones we brought in a voluntary smartphone ban in primary schools. Parents were delighted because you did not have to start having the conversation with the son or daughter about everybody else in the class having a smartphone. It provided cover and support for all parents to say, \"No, in this town we do not do smartphones in primary schools.\" That is now being rolled out to many other things. Getting that same culture in terms of the age at which people use social media is an interesting step. The Deputy proposed some very interesting ideas, I am happy that the Minister with responsibility here has heard them, and let us continue to engage on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I thank the T\u00e1naiste. On behalf of Deputy John Clendennen, I welcome a group in the Public Gallery from St. Brendan's Community School in Birr in County Offaly who recently won the European debating championships. They are here today with their teachers. I hope they have learned a lot from the debate here and I wish them well. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_29","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions","counts":{"speechCount":2,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_29","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  We now move to questions under Standing Order 38A, and Deputy Catherine Ardagh. As the Deputy is not here, we will move on to Questions on Policy or Legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  They fought so hard for those questions. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_30","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation","counts":{"speechCount":52,"speakerCount":20},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_30","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Guirke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  So much for backbenchers wanting so much time on Leaders' Questions. The Government did all this for Lowry and now its backbenchers do not even turn up for the thing it forced through. It is so embarrassing.  This week saw a historic vote in the Assembly in support of extending presidential voting rights to Irish citizens in the North. It is a powerful message from the Assembly, one that transcends political differences and affirms the principles of equality enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. It has been 12 years since the constitutional convention in Dublin voted overwhelmingly to extend the vote and nine years since Fine Gael committed in a programme for Government to holding a referendum. We have had three Governments since then but nothing has happened. The Government has a constitutional duty to uphold the citizenship rights of everybody born on the island of Ireland. This is about equality, recognition and democratic participation. We should not be facing into a presidential election where citizens in the North are again excluded. This must be the last time it ever happens. The time for excuses is over. Will the T\u00e1naiste's Government stop the delaying, set a date, act on this long overdue promise and allow for voting rights in presidential elections for citizens in the North as the Assembly democratically voted on earlier this week? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Doherty very much. I note with interest the debate that took place in the Northern Ireland Assembly this week and the outcome of it. I will engage with my Government colleagues, including the Taoiseach, in relation to this matter. I am supportive of the principle. I think there is logic in it in terms of a Government timeline and the likes. I will need to discuss that with Government colleagues and revert to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I thank the T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  The Green Party is only out of Government a wet week and we are already seeing----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  He is behind you. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  -----an increase in public transport fares. The new Leap card zonal fare is harshly and dramatically impacting commuters travelling through zones 2, 3 and 4 especially. This impacts the T\u00e1naiste's own constituency. I got a response from the NTA that said it is going to begin a scoping exercise of the impact of the new fare structure. I have schoolchildren in my constituency going from Donabate to Balbriggan who have to pay an extra \u20ac25 weekly due to these fares. The scoping exercise should be cancelled, the fares should go back to normal and an examination should be done before there is a change. This situation is having a major impact on families. We are trying to encourage people to use public transport and not to go backwards. In a previous response, the T\u00e1naiste said he would arrange meetings with the NTA and a response from it on matters relating to this fare structure. It has not happened. I really need some progress on this matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  As the Deputy can imagine, this is an issue I am very alert to and aware of in a very practical sense. My hometown is one that has seen an adverse impact from this change. Admittedly, many other areas have seen fares decrease. I do not think it is good that we are seeing one town nearly being pitted against another as a result of this fare structure. We have taken several measures to reduce public transport fares that I am proud of. We did that together in the last Government. I would like to meet the NTA regarding this issue. Perhaps those of us from constituencies impacted could seek to meet the organisation together to seek a timeline on when it intends to carry out the consultation.  While I am on my feet I join the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in welcoming the students and their teachers to the D\u00e1il. I welcome Ms Lavin and Ms Keyes and their students, \u00c9abha, Josie, Cillian and Jacek. I am sure they could all teach us many things about debating. I first learned how to debate back in secondary school too. I was told to do all the things I never do now, like locking your knees, looking up, speaking calmly, beginning with a quote and all that. I hope they have had very good success and I thank them for being here today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I also congratulate the students on winning the debating championship.  I welcome the emerging preferred route for the Cork Luas, but major questions remain. We do not know how much the Government intends to invest in this crucial project. We do not know if a second north-south route is planned. Crucially, we do not know when the Cork Luas will open. This project cannot be left like the Dublin metro, which has been delayed now by 25 years. There is a history of announcements of key infrastructure projects in Cork that are never delivered. These include the events centre, the new city library and the motorway to Limerick, and I could go on. Time and again, there are big announcements of infrastructure projects that are never delivered for our city. Cork urgently needs better public transport and we need it now.  I have three questions for the T\u00e1naiste. Does the Government intend to build a second line connecting the northside of the city to the southern suburbs and the airport? How much has been allocated for this key project? Crucially, when will we see passengers on a Luas in Cork? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Rice very much. I agree with him in general that we must come up with systems to drive forward infrastructure projects in a more timely manner. This is why we have set up the new infrastructure division of the Department of public expenditure and reform. I think we all hear this issue raised in our constituencies. To the people of Cork regarding the decisions we are taking, I would say that the Crawford Gallery is an example of a project that had been knocking around for quite a while. We took a big decision in that regard recently that I think is important. I will get specific answers for the Deputy concerning the three questions he asked regarding the north-south line, the allocations and the timeline. The next point in time is the national development plan, which is due to be published in or around July, and that will allocate capital for the next number of years. I will ask the Minister for Transport to respond to the Deputy specifically on those questions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Proposals were reportedly brought to Cabinet this week to criminalise people who wear face coverings on protests. Anyone wearing any type of face covering, be it a disabled person wearing a medical face mask or a religious person wearing a face covering, can be ordered to remove it by the Garda. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  No. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Okay. I am interested to hear the answer. What was reported is that if people refuse to remove a face covering they could then be arrested. It certainly seemed like an attack on the right of people to protest, particularly disabled people, who subjected the last Government to one of its biggest defeats in terms of a row-back on the Green Paper on disability reform. Many of them - people who are immunocompromised - have to wear face masks to allow them to be out in crowds. They need to wear face masks and should not have their right to protest restricted. This comes along with proposals for body cameras and facial recognition technology. Again, it is reported that this is in preparation for the EU Presidency when the Government expects protest from the \"extreme left\". "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I know we do not agree on much, but I thought one of the things we could agree on was our concern around the activities of some who are loosely termed the \"far right\" who turn up and intimidate and wear balaclavas and face masks. They stood outside your house and my house shouting and roaring and causing significant concern to people in terms of their safety. This is a sensible initiative in respect of a garda being able to direct a person to remove clothing that is being worn to make themselves unidentifiable. It is certainly not about anything to do with the immunocompromised, whom of course we much support. I will ask the Minister to provide the Deputy with clarity regarding the intent of this legislation in writing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I start by thanking Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy for bringing students from Scoil Samhthann in Ballinalee in County Longford to the Public Gallery here today. Many of them are there behind me, including my own cousin, who has very strong connections with west Cork. Aisling Hennessy is here with her fellow students and teachers. They are most welcome.  The private nursing home sector provides an invaluable service to the State with the provision of long-term, short-stay and convalescent beds to the older people in our society. We have a situation at the Aperee nursing home, formerly the Deerpark nursing home, in Bantry where a local private nursing home has gone into receivership. It cannot operate to its full potential as it seems HIQA has a difficulty with it being in receivership, even though negotiations with potential buyers are at an advanced stage. HIQA will not allow the admission of new clients. The nursing home has 18 empty beds and there are seven clients in Bantry General Hospital who wish to avail of these beds. Doing so would make seven acute beds available to Bantry General Hospital. Nine clients originally from the Bantry area are in other nursing homes in counties Cork and Kerry and want to move back to the Bantry area to be close to their families. Can the T\u00e1naiste ensure this situation is rectified speedily so the nursing home can operate to its full potential and beds are made available in the acute hospital that can be utilised for those currently waiting on trolleys? This is not an internal nursing home compliance issue. Simply put, it is a paperwork issue that needs to be resolved immediately. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Collins. I watched in admiration how he managed to bring a Longford school back to a Cork connection. It was nicely done and I join him in welcoming the students Deputy Carrigy has brought to the D\u00e1il today. They are very welcome and I hope they enjoy their day.  I thank Deputy Collins for his question and for raising this important issue. He and I know that HIQA is the statutory independent regulator. We all appreciate that and the role it has to play in ensuring nursing homes are safe and effective.  It is important that they always work closely with nursing home providers and that any restrictive conditions attached to a nursing home are resolved between HIQA and the providers. I join the Deputy in urging a speedy resolution to ensure our older and most vulnerable citizens can have access to services located close to their loved ones in the Bantry area. I will ask the Minister for Health to come back to the Deputy directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathal Crowe  I raise the issue of horse control. Legislation in Ireland largely falls under the Control of Horses Act 1996. I was sent a photo by an American tourist over the weekend who visited our county. They saw a horse tethered to a metal pole outside a supermarket. This happens all around the country and it is inexcusable. The law is robust, but the enforcement is not. Nobody in this country can claim to have a cultural or traditional entitlement to own horses. If you want to own a horse, buy land, rent land or pay for a livery, but do not tie them up outside a supermarket tethered to a pole or leave them to die in a ditch with a ribcage that is hollowed out. It is happening far too often. It paints a poor picture of our country, but more so it is a poor picture for animal welfare. I asked that it be dealt with. There is no cultural tradition. If we go back two or three generations, we will see that the families of every Member of this House, even the most urban Member, come from land where there were horses and carts at one point, but we moved on. No one has a god-given right to own an animal. Certainly, if they cannot control the animal or look after it, the animal should be taken from them. The State has to get far tougher on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Crowe for highlighting this issue. I take the issue of animal welfare seriously. Far too often in our country, we hear of the mistreatment of horses. We often see images on social media and elsewhere that can be extremely distressing. I think the Deputy's point is right. I have been asking about this for a while. The legislation on this is pretty robust, but perhaps there are issues relating to enforcement and how we can get better at enforcing it. In light of the Deputy raising this issue, I will ask the Minister for agriculture to consider the points he has made and come back to him directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Clendennen  I start by welcoming Josie, Jacek, Cillian and Eabha along with their teachers, Ms Lavin and Ms Keyes, and congratulating them on their outstanding achievement as European debating champions.  Reports this week from the national claims information database have highlighted further increases in motor insurance premiums. This is no doubt an added financial strain on motorists at a time when there are so many demands with the cost of living. Significant progress has been made on insurance reform, but premiums remain stubbornly high. In the best interests of reducing costs and premiums for much-pressed consumers, I have two asks of the Government. First, it needs to determine more ways in which the Injuries Resolution Board can be tasked as the fastest and fairest way to process claims. Second, it must reject the proposed recommendations of increasing personal injury guidelines by up to 17% and extending the current review period of three years, thereby giving certainty to the market and the sector. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank the Deputy for raising the important issue of the cost of insurance and the impact that can have on consumers, businesses and so many parts of our lives, our economy and our society. I know that the Government is working its way through that issue at the moment relating to the PIAB guidelines. The Deputy has made a sensible suggestion to look at the length of time for the reviews, which I think is probably too frequent. I know that the Government, led in this area by the Minister for Justice, will give consideration to whether there is a need to amend legislation as well. We are also re-establishing the Cabinet committee on insurance reform, which I will share with all relevant Ministers. We will certainly take forward the Deputy's suggestions through that forum as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  On 18 February last, the Cabinet approved funding for 3,000 social and affordable homes. Decisions on these applications from councils and approved housing bodies had been greatly delayed. At the time, we were told by the Department that within a matter of weeks, following due diligence, formal notification of the approvals would be passed on to the councils and AHBs. Some 11 weeks on, many of these schemes have still not been formally approved. I spoke with one builder-developer in Dublin. He has a turnkey project for one of the large AHBs of more than 50 units. He has had to close down the site because they are still awaiting CALF approval for the AHB. That application was submitted last July. I have spoken with builders in County Donegal and elsewhere who have completed projects, with homes built and empty that cannot be occupied because the funding has yet to be approved. Will the T\u00e1naiste tell us when all of the approvals for the 3,000 units that received financial sanction at Cabinet in February will be finalised and communicated to the AHBs and councils? Will he also ask the Minister to communicate to me directly how many other schemes and units are awaiting approval beyond that 3,000? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank the Deputy for bringing that issue to my attention. I will certainly speak with the Minister for housing and ask that he reply to the Deputy directly. As the Deputy has rightly said, the Government took a funding decision with regard to this. We are living through a housing emergency. We need to see these projects move, so I will ask the Minister to come back to him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ryan O'Meara  The Government must suspend the planned increase in the financial requirements for stamp 2 visa students from \u20ac3,000 to \u20ac6,700. This 120% hike was introduced without consultation, without data supporting it, and with no clear link to inflation, which was between 2% and 5%. Stamp 2 visa students can legally work in Ireland and earn up to \u20ac18,000 per year. Schools across the country are reporting that students are financially sound. The system is currently working as it is, but this sudden change is already causing damage to the industry. One school has already announced redundancies and it may have to close next week as a result of this. It is not a distant problem. It is happening now. The wider impact extends to hospitality and home care sectors that rely on these workers. I ask the T\u00e1naiste to pause this decision, properly review the data and engage with the sector. These people are coming to Ireland to study and to work. They are providing in our economy. People are employed in these schools. They are spending their money here, while also studying. The consequences of rushing are far too great. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. I undertake to speak with the Minister for Justice and the Minister for further and higher education about this. From my memory, I know changes were made in the regulation and oversight of that sector. I also agree that students who come here are making an important contribution with the part-time work they carry out. I know many businesses in rural and urban Ireland are reliant on those workers. I will raise the issue the Deputy has brought to our attention directly with the Ministers, Deputies O'Callaghan and Lawless, and ask them to reply to him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  When the current T\u00e1naiste was Taoiseach, he visited Castleknock village to hear directly from our local businesses about the cost of doing business. Since then, some of our vacant units have been sold or leased, and we look forward to them all opening. However, last Friday another business closed, which had been operating for more than 20 years. As a community we want our village stores, salons, caf\u00e9s and restaurants to succeed and thrive. The T\u00e1naiste is delivering on the commitments he made that day by reducing VAT for hospitality and hairdressing, and cutting the cumulative cost of business and regulations through the establishment of a cost-of-business advisory forum. I am asking him today to give those local business owners a prominent voice in that process, to include a three-week consultation period and to invite them to have their say. If he listens directly to local small businesses, they will tell him where the real cost pressures are, especially the many publicly imposed charges and levies that they face. Not all independent, enterprising local businesses are represented by industry bodies, but they are just as important for jobs and for vibrancy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Deputy Currie makes an important point. How do we make sure we are hearing all of the voices we need to hear when making policy decisions? How do we be as inclusive as possible? I remember well that visit to Castleknock and being in a relatively new coffee shop with the Deputy for a lovely cup of coffee. What was it called? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  Melo. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I remember being in Melo and meeting the young woman running it, and indeed her mother. As is often the case in family businesses, everyone was pitching in. I remember them talking honestly to us about the costs of small business. We have made a number of decisions recently as a Government, not all of which are popular, to try to recognise that when we come up with a good idea in here, it is not us who have to pay for it. It is often the small business, and we have to get that balance right. We are going to set up a cost-of-business advisory forum. This will look at all business taxes and costs and ensure that businesses are properly consulted before new legislation or policies that impact small businesses are introduced. On foot of what the Deputy has raised, I will ask the Minister, Deputy Burke, and the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, to give consideration, as I know they are, to the membership of that, and to make sure we get that balance right. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  We learned this week that the Government has again misled the public. The funding announced for Irish Water to support increased housing supply was not actually additional funding, but just a different way of funding the current programme. We have heard that directly from the chairman of Irish Water. I am sure the T\u00e1naiste will deny that, but he cannot deny the reality on the ground.  There are many towns and villages across County Galway, such as Corofin, Ardrahan, Monivea, Abbeyknockmoy and many more, where we cannot have new housing delivery because we do not have adequate wastewater infrastructure. We have constraints on capacity in towns like Tuam. Craughwell is getting an upgrade, but it will be years before that is built.  The Government's failure to invest is stalling the delivery of new housing. When is the Government going to take this seriously and deliver improved infrastructure to enable delivery of new housing? What is it going to take? Is it going to take all of our young people leaving the country, or another 5,000 children becoming homeless? It is time to wake up and invest in housing infrastructure. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  First, let me reject entirely the assertion with regard to the Uisce \u00c9ireann funding model. The full trawl of documents, which I have no doubt committees and others will look at, will show that the \u20ac1 billion was additional funding. Indeed, those of us who were in government at the time very much remember that. Of course, it is true to say that and also to say the next thing, which is the broader point the Deputy is getting at, that it is not going to be enough. There are towns and villages right across Ireland, rural and urban, that desperately need the water infrastructure and wastewater infrastructure as well. We have been very clear as a Government that we intend to allocate a lot more to Uisce \u00c9ireann. We have been very clear that the Apple fund, for want of a better phrase, does provide a once-in-a-generation opportunity to invest. We will make decisions as a Government shortly in terms of how to move forward on that investment.  We are also bringing Irish Water to the table in the new housing activation office, which we are going to get right, because water infrastructure is a key enabler of housing to keep young people in constituencies like the Deputy's and in our country too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  This week, both the T\u00e1naiste and Taoiseach have spoken powerfully against Israel's plans for the Gaza Strip, but their powerful words are not matched by their actions. The Government said it will write again to the European Commission regarding the EU-Israel Association Agreement. Is there anything to be said for another letter? In a few weeks, it is going to give us a timeline regarding when it will draft its watered-down occupied territories Bill. The Government's approach does not speak to the urgency of the situation we are seeing day by day, hour by hour in Gaza.  Israel has placed the entire world on notice that it intends to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip. Strong words simply are not good enough any longer. Ireland can take clear action here at home that will resonate internationally. The Government must pass the occupied territories Bill covering both goods and services. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy O'Gorman. I acknowledge that he put a real emphasis on this in the previous Government. It is not simply about strong words, although I do think words matter, and I do think speaking out and speaking up matters. Quite frankly, there are a lot of countries not speaking out and speaking up the way Ireland is. Find me another European country that has referred to the actions of Israel in terms of war crimes. We going to continue - and it is not a case of letter writing - to put pressure to build a coalition because the European Union has to live up to its obligations too. We are not just going to do that, however. We are going to pass a Bill with regard to the occupied Palestinian territories. It is going to have to be legally robust. I had a good dialogue with Senator Black in that regard. There are different legal opinions, let us be truthful, around goods and services and what can and cannot be done, and we are happy to thrash that out. That is what this Parliament is meant to do. It is not a policy difference from my perspective around covering services. It truthfully is not. I get the point about covering services. However, the legal advice available to me is that services are legally a different issue from goods. Let us thrash that detail out, however. I am happy to work through that with the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Seamus Healy  The Courts Service recently announced that with effect from 1 November, the court sittings will be transferred from Carrick-on-Suir and Cashel to Clonmel. The decision came completely out of the blue and without any local consultation whatsoever. There appears to be a policy of stripping towns and local communities of locally-based services. Youghal is also to lose its court service and, of course, Carrick-on-Suir has already lost its district hospital, which is a serious blow to the town and the local community.  The Courts Service has failed in its duty to properly maintain the courthouses in Carrick-on-Suir and Cashel, and it appears it is now using this failure to transfer the services from these towns. I ask that the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Justice intervene with the Courts Service and stop these transfers, and make sure that the Courts Service properly maintains the courthouses in these towns. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Healy very much for raising the matter. When a court sitting changes in a town, it is not just the convenience for people in terms of accessing the court; it is the general footfall that can come into a town associated with a court sitting. I see that in my county of Wicklow as well. I will ask the Minister for Justice to get an update and to discuss this matter with the Courts Service with regard to Carrick-on-Suir and Cashel and why the sittings are moving to Clonmel and to revert to the Deputy with an update. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  I wish to comment first on a comment by Deputy Doherty regarding my colleague, Deputy Ardagh, and her non-attendance in the Chamber. Deputy Ardagh is not here; we do not know why she is not here. I do not think anybody should be commenting on that. I have tabled a question for the T\u00e1naiste on defence in the afternoon and I cannot be here because I am attending my uncle's funeral. I do not, therefore, think any of us should be judge and jury on that.  I acknowledge the Government's continued efforts to meet housing targets and strengthen our national infrastructure. One key issue we are facing, especially in the midlands, is the need to upgrade our electricity grid to support new housing and developments. We know that transformers and other critical components are not necessarily in short supply right now, but they are being ordered and manufactured globally. If peace were to emerge in places like Ukraine and Palestine, as we hope, global demand for these infrastructural goods will increase sharply. Will the Government act now and secure orders to invest in future-proofing our grid? Can the T\u00e1naiste provide an upgrade on any promised legislation and policy to accelerate these upgrades in line with our housing ambitions? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy McCormack. I offer my sincere sympathy to him and his family on their loss.  The Deputy is so right to highlight the importance of the electricity grid, both from an energy security and from a housing point of view. We quite rightly talk in this House about the emergency that is housing - there is no doubt about that - but the key enabler to moving forward on that emergency is water, wastewater and energy supply. That is why the Government is very minded to invest significantly more funding through Uisce \u00c9ireann and into the grid through EirGrid and others. We will be looking at this in the context of the Apple escrow account and that once-off opportunity to make that investment. We will consider this in due course in the months ahead. We are determined to get that right and make sure there is bang for buck in terms of that investment leading to extra houses. I will keep the Deputy updated as that progresses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Deputy McCormack, just for clarification, no one is acting as judge and jury, certainly from the Chair anyway. I would like him to know that. I am obliged to call the Deputies from the list I have. It is just to note that.  I call Deputy Colm Burke. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  Blackpool suffered flooding damage in 2010, 2012 and 2013. It was agreed that a flood relief programme would be put in place. Environmental impact studies were carried out and presented by the Office of Public Works, OPW, to the Department of public expenditure. There was a judicial review in 2021, but the environmental impact study was left on someone's desk for 12 months in the Department of public expenditure, and by the time it came to act on it, it was out of date, so it was back to the drawing board.  A new report has been given to the OPW. My understanding is that the OPW has now sent it on to the Department of public expenditure. I do not want it to be sitting on someone's desk again for 12 months. In this area now people cannot sell property. They can only sell to cash purchasers because no bank will lend to anyone who wants to buy property in this area because they cannot get flood relief insurance. I ask that this project be given priority and that it is not delayed further. It is 12 years on from the decision being taken, and no action has been taken. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Burke for raising this issue and for vocalising very strongly the absolute frustration of his constituents in and around Blackpool. I know this has been going on for an extraordinarily long period of time. The Deputy is of course correct that on 17 April the OPW submitted the final supplementary information and those updated environmental surveys he referenced to the Minister for public expenditure, infrastructure, public service reform and digitalisation as part of the statutory confirmation that needs to take place to progress the scheme to construction.  I spoke with the Minister responsible for the Office of Public Works this morning in this regard. I was going to say he is as eager as Deputy Burke, although I am not sure anyone could be as eager as Deputy Burke, to move this forward and do so quickly. He is almost as eager as Deputy Burke. I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, to keep in very close contact with the Deputy. It is a statement of fact that all the necessary paperwork is now with the Department of public expenditure and we need to move this forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Guirke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Johnny Guirke  I want to raise with the T\u00e1naiste the issue of section 5. It probably had its uses, but when abused, as it is being at the moment, it is a very serious tool.  Anybody can make a section 5 application, even if he or she does not own the building, to check if it is exempt from planning for an IPAS centre. The owner of the building in a lot of cases does not even know that somebody has made a section 5 application, as happened in Trim last week. This is creating a lot of unnecessary problems for communities right across the country and needs to be urgently addressed. A 'For Sale' sign on a building is enough for some of these unscrupulous people to make a section 5 application, where they know they can make a lot of money overnight. They are looking for these section 5 applications on buildings that would never be exempt from planning like industrial units with no windows. According to the programme for Government, the only hotel in a town will not be taken for an IPAS centre. Will the T\u00e1naiste give a commitment today that this will not happen? It is hurting tourism and businesses in small towns right across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Guirke. I will ask the Minister for housing and the Minister of State with responsibility for planning to give consideration to the point he makes about the role of section 5 and the appropriate use of it in the context of what he has outlined. I would like to make two points on IPAS and migration accommodation. First, there has been too much discussion only on accommodation. We also have to discuss a rules-based system and making sure that if people have a right to be here, they are integrated, get on with their lives, get a job and make a good contribution to our country. If they do not have a right to be here, we must ensure they are asked to leave and to do so much more quickly. If they do not leave, we must ensure that they do leave. Second, we want to see hotels used for what they are meant to be used for, which is tourism. In the emergency situation, of course, that was not always possible but we have a very clear commitment to try to stay away from the use of the only hotel in a town. There can be cases where a hotel has been shut for many years but I am talking about active hotels. Certainly, that is the policy objective of the Government. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  When it comes to IPAS developments, the Government is treating people like mushrooms by keeping them in the dark and feeding them dung. That is what is happening right across this country. It has allowed a vacuum of information to develop whereby it is another day, another rumour. I refer to the Belmont Hotel, St. Mary's Secondary School in Ballina and, most recently, Belmullet. I got a call the other day from a construction worker who was due to price a proposed IPAS centre in the town. This is how people are finding out - by accident. That is what is happening. When will the Government remove the planning circumvention which was designed to ensure that the people have no say in relation to what is happening in their community? What is happening to the Belmont Hotel in Knock? Is it an IPAS centre or a hotel? I have raised this previously. I submitted a parliamentary question about St. Mary's school in Ballina and the reply was astonishing. The Department said that it is not being considered at the moment but may be again. When will the people find out? The works are continuing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I ask you to conclude, Deputy Lawless. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  Is it the case that the works are continuing for another application to be submitted? What are the Government's plans for an IPAS centre in Belmullet? It is totally wrong. The Government's policy at the moment is that people will find out when the scaffolding is erected or when people move in. This is unacceptable. It is no way to treat the people of this country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  That is, of course, not our policy. I thank the Deputy for raising issues in relation to Belmullet, the Belmont Hotel in Knock and St. Mary's school in Ballina. I will ask the Minister for Justice and the Minister of State for migration to come back to the Deputy on that. Broadly, on the issue of communications around migration, we need to do more. We recently discussed this very issue at a Cabinet committee meeting on justice and migration. We have good people doing their best to communicate and to keep communities up to date, but we probably do not have enough of them. We need to support those people who are doing very good work in trying to go out and engage with communities. We also need to listen to what communities are saying. Often communities just want to know what the impact will be on schools and health services. We need to be better able to respond more quickly to the resources that a community often needs. If a community sees a significant increase in the population, be that through IPAS or anything else, these are often legitimate questions that people are raising and we need to do better at providing more speedy answers. That is our work----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  What of the circumvention? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Sorry, that is a fair question. In relation to the issue of planning, I am truthfully not sure in relation to that but I will get an answer to the Deputy directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Crime is an incredibly serious issue that many of us are dealing with at the minute. Yesterday in my own constituency, 20 pipe bombs were found in a ditch behind a property in Ardee. This happened after great work by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na in relation to a significant drugs find. It shows the reality on the ground, particularly when combined with an incident last Friday in Ardee in the early hours of the morning between 4 a.m. and 4.40 a.m. Garda\u00ed are looking for information because a garda on routine patrol was injured in a hit-and-run incident. That case has moved on and our thoughts are with that garda. It shows the reality that garda\u00ed are dealing with at the minute. I would also like to bring up the issue in relation to assaults and arson in north Louth.  My question relates to the community safety partnerships. A lot of us like the idea of garda\u00ed, councillors and all of the necessary stakeholders being involved but there are issues relating to the membership and how the partnerships are going to operate. If action needs to be taken, it should be taken quickly in relation to how they are going to operate. That needs to happen as soon as possible. The problem is that the joint policing committees, as imperfect as they were, are not sitting in County Louth right now. We can all have ad hoc relationships with garda\u00ed and others, but at the end of the day these are necessary forums. We need to have an interim solution with the JPCs and then make sure we have a finalised, operating, fit-for-purpose system in the form of community safety partnerships. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa. While I am not aware of the specific details, I join the Deputy in sending my best wishes to that member of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. As the Deputy says, all of these incidents are harsh and real reminders of the dangers that garda\u00ed face when they put themselves in harm's way to keep the rest of us safe. I am very grateful to all members of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na for their service.  I am a big fan of the community safety partnerships for the reasons the Deputy has outlined. They bring everybody together and recognise that while garda\u00ed have a role to play, so too do the councils, the HSE and lots of other parts of society. They involve pulling everyone together to draw up a plan to make communities safer and to have that buy-in is important. I will ask the Minister for Justice to reflect on the particular comments Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa made today in relation to Louth, the membership and that interim gap and to respond to him directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Before we suspend, can I mention something on behalf of a number of Members? The T\u00e1naiste might mention to his Government colleagues that when further information is promised during Questions on Promised Legislation or parliamentary questions, or indeed from agencies, they should respond in a reasonable time or give Members a timeframe. Members have asked me to mention that and the quality of the answers to some parliamentary questions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Absolutely. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Perhaps you would not mind passing that on. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I would be delighted to do so. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 1.17 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 1.57 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Sitting suspended at 1.17 p.m. and resumed at 1.57 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Defence Forces","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_31","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_32.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  We all share a great deal of concern about the challenges faced by the Defence Forces in recruitment and retention. It is severe right across the organisation but it is felt most keenly in the area of specialist staff such as air traffic controllers, engineers and explosive ordnance disposals officers. This is a major challenge. There is a lot of competition from the private sector. We need to consider this and how we retain some of this crucial staff. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Defence (Deputy Simon Harris)  I agree with the Deputy about recruitment and retention. We can have all the investment plans, and we need to in the Defence Forces, but the men and women in the Defence Forces constitute its most important resource. Given that this is a country with full employment and very skilled individuals work in the Defence Forces, how we recruit in the first instance and then crucially retain them is a very fair question raised by the Deputy.  My Department has one service commitment scheme in place in respect of Air Corps pilots and these matters are always kept under review. Recruitment and retention of Defence Forces personnel is, and must be, a Government priority. There are challenges with recruitment and retention in the Defence Forces with particular challenges relating to specialist personnel. Our focus has been on ensuring that existing recruitment and retention frameworks are fully optimised and are responsive to the needs of the Defence Forces while at the same time introducing a number of new initiatives in this space.  While there is always more to do, there has been significant progress on a range of fronts, including pay, in recent years. Recruit pay on completion of training, which takes approximately 24 weeks, starts at \u20ac41,465 in year one rising to \u20ac42,875 in year two and \u20ac44,176 in year three. For officers, as of 1 March 2025, a school leaver cadet on commissioning is now paid \u20ac45,341, which is a second lieutenant position. In 2019, a school leaver cadet on commissioning was paid \u20ac30,884 so there has been quite a significant increase. In the past five years a cadet's pay on commissioning has increased by \u20ac14,457, or by 49%. Furthermore, after two years, they are promoted to lieutenant and their pay rises to \u20ac50,677. I say this because I am not sure whether these changes are fully known. There might be people watching and following this debate and we want to make it clear to them that pay issues in the Defence Forces have changed in recent years. Of course, there is more to do and I will come back on this in a moment. Other developments include the extension of private secondary health care to enlisted ranks, the restructuring of the patrol duty allowance paid to the Naval Service to encourage seagoing activities, a technical pay 2-6 review completed and implemented that is targeted at specialist and technical personnel and developments relating to the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Much of the T\u00e1naiste's response related more to the recruitment side of things. We have a significant challenge in that regard and we are not out of the woods by any manner of means. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  We are not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  My specific question primarily relates to the retention of highly skilled people. I have put to the T\u00e1naiste previously that much of the debate on this topic has been for an external audience. In truth, for all the big speeches, much of the substance of what is needed to ensure the sustainability of the Defence Forces is absent. The T\u00e1naiste has been talking about fighter jets while we have sent boats to sea in recent months without a functioning main gun because we do not have artificers to operate it. I understand that whole classes have come out of some of the schemes and all but two or three of them have been bought out by major private sector firms. I understand that in recent weeks, three or four people involved in air traffic control at Baldonnel have left the Defence Forces, which creates potentially significant difficulties for the Air Corps and the Government jet. If the T\u00e1naiste would comment on that, I would welcome it.  The problem I am identifying is in retaining staff. We need to consider schemes to ensure that personnel are retained and not taken by the private sector. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I was not talking about fighter jets but was asked about a question about them at an Army barracks. I said I want to get to level of ambition, LAO, 3, which talks about that degree of air cover. We need a better understanding of what happens and the capabilities in our skies and seas. The Deputy is right that the key to being able to activate any of this is having the personnel to operate any such infrastructural capabilities, and we can debate the merits or demerits of each of those.  I am not saying this is what he is saying, but it is not fair to completely decouple pay from considerations of retention. If pay is very low, personnel are not going to be retained in an organisation. The changes in pay are helpful. The extension of private secondary healthcare, restructuring of the patrol duty allowance and the extensive training and education opportunities that now exist in the Defence Forces, which are possibly unrivalled in many parts of the public service, are also helpful. Increasing the mandatory retirement age to 62 is a retention measure and increasing the maximum recruitment age to 39 also brings people in.  The Deputy asked if I will consider the introduction of service commitment schemes to retain key specialist functions. My answer is that we already have one and I keep under review whether we need to do more in respect of particular specialties that we want to retain in the Defence Forces. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  As I understand it, the scheme to which the T\u00e1naiste referred relates specifically to pilots. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  That is correct. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  The Defence Forces face challenges. If anybody is going to be decoupling the issues of pay and recruitment, it certainly will not be me. It is very much the case that they are linked. The point I am raising relates to the retention of existing staff and not recruiting new staff, which is also a challenge. Aside from the category that is covered by the service commitment, there are whole areas with significant problems. I will later ask the T\u00e1naiste a question about cybersecurity. How are we going to be able to retain people, particularly in Ireland, with the number of tech companies here? How are we going to be able to retain people with cybersecurity expertise with the competition we could face?  I have made a point about the issues relating to artificers. There are also issues in respect of explosive ordnance disposal officers. The cyber, tech, IT and pharmaceutical sectors are seeing staff members being trained by the State and the Defence Forces and understand the benefits of recruiting them. There is not enough in the Defence Forces to keep those personnel. These schemes have been used in the past. I encourage the T\u00e1naiste to consider them in advance of the next budget so we can retain staff. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Let me be clear that I do not rule out what he has suggested. I am not in any way naive. While I can point to figures that show marginal improvements in the numbers of Defence Forces personnel, I am also aware we are nowhere near the established numbers we need. That marginal improvement provides a degree of false comfort in some of the specialties where we need to continue to recruit and, crucially, as the Deputy said, retain in the Defence Forces.  As he referenced, there is the new service commitment scheme. I am always open to exploring options to continue to drive recruitment and, particularly, retention. I am open to receiving and considering any proposed initiatives and carefully assessing them against operational requirements. They need to work within broader pay policy. There is a broader issue about pay policy. We often talk about issues at a macro level. Within many organisations in the public service, and the Defence Forces is no different, there are particular pinch points in respect of a group of people or skills. There does not necessarily need to be a contagion effect so we see that spreading across all elements of the public service. How we tease through these issues is complex but important. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence Forces"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_33","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Defence Forces","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_31","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_33","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_33.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  It is a national embarrassment that we are without detection systems in our skies and waters and must rely on the Royal Air Force, RAF. We have outsourced that element of our sovereignty for a long time. The T\u00e1naiste brought a note to Cabinet on a radar detection system that he wants to bring on board. Will he provide to the House more details on the timelines and costs involved? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. When we look back at the Commission on the Defence Forces and everything else, radar and sonar are two key areas on which we must move. The Deputy and I can largely agree on that point. These are no-brainers. We must have a better understanding of what happens in our skies and seas. We need that capability.  It is a key priority for me to ensure that the operational capacity of the Defence Forces is maintained and developed in line with the decision the Government has already made to move to level of ambition 2, as defined by the Commission on the Defence Forces, by 2028. The commitment in the programme for Government states that when we have arrived at LAO 2, we will move to level of ambition 3.  The commission recommended the development of a primary radar capability to ensure that Ireland can maintain a complete recognised air picture, and that this should be a top priority. The commission also advised that in the absence of a complete recognised air picture, there are vulnerabilities which need to be addressed for various reasons, including the protection of our national sovereignty in the air for the purposes of civil aviation safety and the maintenance of co-operative relations with neighbouring states, which are also impacted by this capability gap.  On foot of this, a project team comprising senior civil and military personnel was established to progress a military radar programme. This programme of work is ongoing and I am pleased that good progress has been made. There are three elements to the military radar programme: land-based long range primary radar; ground-based air defence systems, to include a counter-unmanned aerial systems capability; and maritime or ship-borne radar. When fully addressed, the recognised air picture will incorporate this suite of military radar systems, which will have the capability to detect all aircraft traversing our airspace, including any that may be operating with their transponders turned off.  Full delivery of the programme will be complex but will be fully rolled out by 2028. That roll-out will start in 2026, which is sometimes missed in the discourse. In each month and quarter from 2026 onwards, we will start to see progress and the roll-out will be fully completed by the end of 2028. I will go back to Cabinet later this year with the recommendation so we can press \"Go\" for the roll-out in early 2026. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  I thank the T\u00e1naiste. We are so far behind in our capability. Is it envisioned that what is going to be provided and online for the State will be of the highest technical standard compared with other states? Will we be bringing in equipment to a specification that is perhaps ten or 20 years behind other states?  We must improve our national security. Only when we are minding our own shop can we promote our positive neutrality. State actors who were previously allies of ours are no longer trusted so we need to invest, though not at the cost of housing or health, in our national security. This is one basic element that needs to be done.  This issue can be decoupled, to use the word the T\u00e1naiste used in his response to the previous question, from debates around the triple lock and neutrality. This is basic, and is something we need to do to the highest standard. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I fully agree with the Deputy. I like, and will cog, the phrase \"positive neutrality\". That is what we should be talking about. I certainly have no plans to change Ireland's military neutrality. There is an overwhelming consensus in this House and significant support across the country for military neutrality. We should be proud of our neutrality. It is not just a cornerstone of our Defence Forces policy but also our foreign affairs policy. We need that vision of positive neutrality. There are many neutral nations that spend a lot more on their own security. In fact, one could argue that being neutral places a greater obligation on a country in light of its need to invest in its own national security because it is not a part of a military alliance and should not be able to rely on others to come to its aid. This is in the national security space.  Perhaps a benefit, if there is one, of being one of the last in Europe to get this right is that we have access to the best information about what modern, fit-for-purpose radar systems look like.  The Government has taken a decision to work government to government on procurement. That will involve the delivery of modern fit-for-purpose capabilities in this space. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  The provision of modern fit-for-purpose capabilities is important. There would be more trust from this side of the House if we were not having the parallel debate on the triple lock and what is coming down the tracks there. There are places we can land on in terms of the extraction of Irish citizens and ensuring that capability can be raised but the multilateral backup of the UN for peacekeeping missions is still vital. I am concerned that debate will impact on issues like this or investing in our cybersecurity. I do not want that to happen because these are things we have to do. These are the basics of national security. The fact the T\u00e1naiste is trying to do these in parallel will be politically difficult and harbour mistrust on this side of the House that we are moving towards military alliances, be it NATO or through the European Union. That is something we cannot countenance and we do not need to. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  We certainly do not and there is no proposal to join NATO or anything like it. I value military neutrality. Understanding and debating what it means, though, is very useful. It means being militarily unaligned but one can be militarily unaligned and still take national security and defence seriously. I accept there are very different views in the House on the terms, conditions and parameters on which we decide to deploy personnel abroad for peacekeeping. The Deputy is right that we have to get to a point. We are about to set up an Oireachtas committee on national security and I really welcome that. The Deputy's party leader, Deputy Bacik, makes the point - and I agree fully - that we need a much greater and more honest exchange among Government and Opposition. We do not talk about it enough. We should be able to have informed conversations that do not simply run into an alleyway because all we talk about is neutrality. We may all have different views but we all agree on military neutrality. I certainly agree military neutrality is important but we should enable ourselves to have the space to talk about it. We are militarily neutral but what do we need to do to give the men and women of \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann the equipment they need to keep this country safe and to have access to good information? We know about the shadow fleet. If, God forbid, anything ever went wrong, the Deputy would be asking me much more difficult questions on why we did not go down this route. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence Forces"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_34","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Military Neutrality","counts":{"speechCount":17,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_31","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_34","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_34.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  In the context of the ongoing discussions around the triple lock, which have been referenced, and the Government's proposal to dismantle it, I ask the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Defence whether a peacekeeping mission deployment has ever been unable to proceed due to the lack of agreement of the UN General Assembly since the introduction of the triple lock, which is a measure provided for in the Defence (Amendment) Act. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Are the Deputies happy to do them in this order? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Catherine Ardagh)  Apologies, I skipped Question No. 154 by accident. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  So we will do this and come back. Is that okay? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I propose to take Questions Nos. 155 and 156 together.  I thank Deputies Gibney and \u00d3 Laoghaire for raising this important matter. I accept we approach this from very different points of view. I do not doubt the Deputies'  bona fides  on this and ask that they do not doubt mine. I value military neutrality. I am not proposing Ireland joins any military alliances; I am proposing that the triple lock in its current form poses challenges and should change. We will have an opportunity to tease through legislation and vote accordingly. I welcome the opportunity to speak on this question. I know the questions are grouped but Question No. 155 refers to the roles of the UN General Assembly and Security Council.  Since 1958, Ireland has contributed to a range of UN missions across the world. I recently had the honour to visit our troops stationed in Lebanon and saw first-hand the vital role they are playing with UNIFIL, where many thousands of Irish soldiers have been deployed over a number of decades. The UN Charter unequivocally sets out the primacy of the UN Security Council with regard to all matters relating to international peace and security. In practice, peacekeeping missions are only ever deployed on the basis of mandates from the UN Security Council. Under the charter, it is the Security Council alone that holds the power to take decisions that member states are obligated to implement. The UN General Assembly cannot compel a peacekeeping operation. That remains the province of the Security Council. In certain instances, where a matter has been considered by the Security Council and has been the subject of a veto, the General Assembly may consider the matter and make a recommendation to UN members for collective action. The term \"recommendation\" is key here, however, with a recommendation being devoid of any binding legal force.  UN General Assembly resolutions cannot compel action, therefore. Only once in history has the UN General Assembly invoked the \"uniting for peace\" resolution and recommended a peacekeeping operation. This happened nearly 70 years ago, when it established the first UN emergency force in the Middle East in 1956, which proceeded with the consent of the parties involved. I have a lot more to say on this but we will have to go back and forth. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  My question is somewhat different from Deputy Gibney's, although hers makes an important distinction that needs to be made. People have been talking about the Security Council. There is no dispute that the world is changing. That is recognised. It is a question of what Ireland's place in this changing world is. If we remove the triple lock neutrality protection, we will potentially expose ourselves to significant external pressure to participate in missions that the Irish public does not wish to participate in and that, according to the T\u00e1naiste's bona fides, he does not wish to either. It is a rash approach and one not in our strategic interests.  Several of the examples given are not, in fact, covered by the triple lock. The triple lock was brought in in 1960 in respect of peacekeeping missions. The triple lock legislation and the defence Acts do not prevent the rescue of Irish civilians or prevent us participating in missions to intercept drugs or anything like that. To examples such as those given, we have no objection. The triple lock is the problem there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his answer. Once again he said he supports military neutrality but it appears not when we see the actions the Government is taking and this proposal before us. While he positions the change as something he has to do because he cannot secure the UN mandate, the facts do not justify it. I am left to assume he does not want to have that UN mandate applied to our peacekeeping missions and the human rights monitoring and transparency it demands. The reality is the General Assembly endorsement can satisfy our triple lock.  I will go through some of these facts. China vetoed the renewal of the Macedonia mission in 1999 due to its recognition of Taiwan. No peacekeeping mission has been blocked since. In fact, many UN peacekeeping missions have had their mandates renewed, including the Golan Heights, and UN mandates were given to Operation Sophia and the mission in Haiti established last year. The T\u00e1naiste mentioned the time the General Assembly was used. They based it on the \"uniting for peace\" resolution, which can be deployed. These are the facts and the T\u00e1naiste's answer does not adequately address them. Can he point me to when a peacekeeping mission has been prevented or even hampered because the General Assembly did not do its job? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Can I ask a question back? Does the Deputy accept there are countries in the world which are absolutely neutral militarily and there is no question of it, and which do not deploy a triple lock mechanism for their decisions around peacekeeping? I genuinely do not believe the issues should be conflated. There are a number of examples. The European Union peace operation in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia did not have a UN Security Council mandate and Ireland was unable to participate in that mission despite wanting to do so. In 1999, a permanent member of the UN Security Council vetoed the renewal of the United Nations preventative deployment force. The EU security mission in the Mediterranean - the then Operation Sophia - did eventually get a UN mandate until 2016 but Ireland could not consider contributing to the mission for quite a period because that mandate was not in place.  Let us take a very real one. I was in Lebanon recently. I also met the men and women in Renmore barracks who are about to go out to Lebanon. What would we do - this is up for renewal this year - if any member of the UN Security Council decided for budgetary or other reasons not to renew the mandate? There is not a person in Ireland who wants us to end the peacekeeping mission in Lebanon. I am not saying we are. We are very committed to it but, hypothetically, if that happened this year, if I was standing here taking questions and a permanent member of the Security Council had vetoed renewal of the mandate, would the Deputy want me to bring the troops home from Lebanon? That is what I would have to do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  There was not a person in Ireland who wanted us to withdraw troops from the Golan Heights or was in favour of that, and that was done for budgetary reasons. That was for budgetary reasons because of the Government. That was the primary obstacle.  The last time Irish troops were pulled out of a peacekeeping mission, it was entirely the decision of the Irish Government and it was not informed by anything to do with the triple lock. I do not think that particular example bears it out.  I would again make the point that it is not the case that there are some UN missions that will go ahead without us because of the triple lock that we would otherwise like to participate in. There are no UN missions without the UN mandate. The UN is imperfect but the point is that if we are talking about participating in UN missions without a UN mandate, we are talking about participating in non-UN missions. We are talking about participating in missions without knowing what kind of missions they are.  The Minister talked about conflating the two issues. The Irish public can be forgiven for that, given the context of the various referenda and the statements of successive Irish Governments, primarily made up of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael, which made that connection themselves during the course of referenda when arguing that the triple lock was a crucial protection for neutrality. That was the argument made then. I think the Irish people can be forgiven for remembering that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  In answer to the first of the two questions posed by the T\u00e1naiste, I am aware that, of course, there are other countries that are militarily neutral that do not have a triple lock. However, they did not arrive at their position of neutrality in the same historic pathway as we did with the Nice and Lisbon treaties, simple as that. The other question the T\u00e1naiste asked concerned whether the people of Ireland want those missions to be stopped, which once again brings us into the hypothetical - the \u201cWhat ifs?\u201d or \u201cWould you?\u201d - and the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, did exactly the same when we had a debate on this a number of weeks ago. This veto is posed as a \"What if?\u201d or \"Why are we there?\" It seems the Government wishes to justify this massive policy change with no examples of the actual issue arising for peacekeeping. EU missions have received UN mandates before. I mentioned, for example, Operation Sophia and, in that instance, the mandate guaranteed the human rights monitoring and other checks and balances that are vital to missions like these. We pulled out of the UN mission in Syria not due to a lack of mandate but due to a lack of troops. The reason we had that lack of troops was that we committed to a non-UN-backed EU battlegroup that is not accountable to either the European Parliament or the European Court of Human Rights.  If I genuinely believed that we were boxed in in the way the T\u00e1naiste describes, I would be with him on this, but there is no evidence to that effect. That is why I am left asking why we are pivoting away from human rights accountability and transparency in the deployment of our troops and jeopardising our long-held gold standard reputation for peacekeeping. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  We are not doing that. Any missions we participate in will have to be in line with the values of the UN Charter. In fairness to everybody in this House, we are having this debate before we all have a chance to scrutinise the legislation, and I accept that reality. I am looking forward to getting to tease it out line by line so we can all understand what we are being asked or not asked to do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  What is the timeline for that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The timeline is \u201cvery shortly\u201d, that is, I expect I will be in a position to publish it this month. Certainly, it will be published very shortly, but in and around that time.  I have a difference of view to Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire on this. I think people in Ireland do differentiate between military neutrality and the triple lock. I know politicians do not pay any attention to polls, definitely not, but if they did, they would know there is a significant gap between the number of people who absolutely support military neutrality and the number open to hearing how we change how we deploy our peacekeeping troops. In many ways, much of society is ahead of where this debate is.  The Deputy asked me for a simple example or to name an opportunity where Ireland wanted to participate in a peacekeeping operation and could not because of the lack of a UN mandate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  No, I asked when it was prevented by the UN General Assembly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  A specific example of where we wanted to participate was the European Union peace operation in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. When the European Union wants to deploy peacekeepers and the Irish Government and the D\u00e1il want to deploy peacekeepers, I do not think it is up to Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin or, frankly, anybody else to decide whether we can do that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Catherine Ardagh)  I will now go to Question No. 154. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Military Neutrality"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_35","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Air Corps","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_31","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_35","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_35.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Over the course of many years, it seems many Air Corps personnel, primarily young working-class people who took jobs in the maintenance department of the Air Corps, were exposed to very hazardous and dangerous conditions with very few, or effectively no, safety precautions, certainly nothing by way of masks, adequate ventilation and so on. There are huge concerns about the health implications this has for those former personnel, and I will detail that later. I want to specifically ask the Minister if he has engaged with any of those affected or their representative groups and how he intends to ensure their health is safeguarded and supported. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank the Deputy for raising the matter and for constructively discussing it with me at the last parliamentary questions session on defence matters. I have had engagement with my officials to try to tease through some of this since we last discussed this. As I set out on the last occasion this was raised in the House, and I feel obliged to repeat now, any discussion we have or certainly any comments that I make are necessarily restricted by the existence of ongoing litigation that is active before the courts. I want to see a resolution in this regard. I am advised there is currently active engagement between the State Claims Agency and litigants to determine if mutually agreeable resolutions can be found to their cases. I want to see that happen and I encourage the State Claims Agency to continue that approach, as I know it will. Trying to bring this issue to a resolution that works is important.  The ultimate priority for me and for the Defence Forces is the protection of the health and well-being of members of the Defence Forces in carrying out its essential service to the State. It is also important to me that, where possible, litigation of this nature can be concluded on reasonable terms agreeable to all parties to spare people having to take other routes. In the event that this cannot be achieved, the matter will fall to be determined by the courts but, again, I need to remain fully cognisant of my own position in that litigation.  It would be valuable in the engagement process that is now genuinely under way that it be allowed the opportunity to proceed without prejudice, and to see if we can get to a point where there is an achievable outcome that is acceptable to all parties. The question of alleged or potential historic exposure to chemicals in the Air Corps is a matter of considerable importance to me and I maintain an open mind in terms of future discussions and engagement. I have made the point that, in the past, there have been other areas where even if the State did not accept liability, people did try to meet the health needs of those impacted. I have asked that my officials continue to give thought to that issue and to keep me updated on the progress in relation to the State Claims Agency engagement and those further questions that I have asked it. I am saying in the D\u00e1il today that I would like time to be given to that process of engagement that I genuinely believe is now under way. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  I do not accept that for one second. Over many years, this House has dealt with many issues that have been proceeding through the courts and the State rightly did not intervene as between the two different parties or try to disturb the process of the courts. However, that is totally separate from whether the State itself identifies that there is a policy issue and a need for a policy response in relation to a category of people without interfering in the court process. That has happened numerous times, for example, with regard to the Magdalen laundries and different things like that where schemes were set up. There is nothing at this moment in time to prevent the Minister, without interfering in court cases, from engaging with representatives of those who were affected to ask what the State can do in terms of an examination of the health outcomes.  The best example, although it may not be perfect, is the one I gave from Australia, the Study of Health Outcomes in Aircraft Maintenance Personnel, SHOAMP, which identified the implications because personnel were facing serious issues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Maybe I was not clear but I thought I was saying something similar. There is a process ongoing in relation to the State Claims Agency trying to see if the legal cases can be resolved in a way that is to the satisfaction of both parties. In addition to that, I have also asked my officials, on the basis of the last exchange we had, to give consideration to other actions we may be able to take to try to meet the health needs of people. That is the point I am making. There is an engagement process under way now between the State Claims Agency, which has a delegated function from me, so it acts on behalf of the State and the Government, to see if we can get this to a position where those who have been impacted are satisfied and the State is satisfied too. All I am suggesting today, and I am constraining myself in not wanting to say anything unhelpful or that cuts across that process, is that I want to give it a little bit of time. I am happy to engage constructively on it and I have asked my officials to continue to think further on some of the points I have made to them, many of which have been influenced by the points made to me by the Deputy in this House some six weeks ago. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  I put the T\u00e1naiste on notice that I will be bringing this up again in six weeks and six weeks after that too. I am going to continue to pursue this. I would like it if we could bracket the State Claims Agency part and put that to one side because that is not what I am talking about. That needs to proceed and I hope it works out well, or as well as possible, for those affected.  One of the key points is that not everybody can afford to take the State to court. One of the organisations representing people is the Air Corps Chemical Abuse Survivors, ACCAS.  It does not comprise clinicians, and I am not a clinician, but it has identified 97 untimely deaths, and I believe it has used that phrase deliberately and carefully. It will take a health study to identify what can be connected or what is connected to chemical exposure but it seems to me, given that a direct connection was found in Australia and the Netherlands, these men, as it is almost exclusively men, perhaps with one or two women, were exposed to very dangerous chemicals. A lot of them are really sick. Many of them have died, and their families and friends believe they did so prematurely. This is very serious. I encourage the T\u00e1naiste to engage with the ACCAS and any other relevant people to try to find a policy solution, aside from the courts solution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire. The differentiation he has made between the two processes is useful. The point he is making to me is that a number of people are not involved in legal proceedings, and they never wish to be involved in legal proceedings for whatever reason, but there are health issues that either have impacted them or are impacting them and their families have concerns about this, and there is a need to examine the health cause and effect, for want of a phrase, and to examine what other jurisdictions have done. This is something I will undertake to do, and I will come back to Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire on it. I expect he will be asking me about this again. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Air Corps"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_37","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Cybersecurity Policy","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_37.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Inniu ba mhaith liom caint faoi rud \u00e9igin at\u00e1 i mb\u00e9al an phobail faoi l\u00e1thair. What steps are being taken to strengthen Irish cyberdefence capabilities, especially in the environment we are in at present? Cyberattacks are no longer hypothetical. They are a real and growing threat to our economy, our national security and our democracy. The T\u00e1naiste has spoken about this before but I want to know what steps have been taken since the formation of the Government to protect the Irish people and to protect our economy and our national security. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I propose to take Questions Nos. 157 and 165 together.  I can advise the Deputies that the Defence Forces have established a new joint cyberdefence command. This new command will be able to conduct full spectrum operations to robustly defend against cyberthreats and support Defence Forces operations at home and overseas, and enhance national cyberdefence resilience and contingent capabilities. Deputy Heneghan is right that this is a real and growing issue. Following the establishment of this unit, the Defence Forces cyberdefence strategy for 2024 to 2027 was published last year. This strategy sets out a road map to ensure our Defence Forces achieve operational capability in this new domain.  I am pleased to say the assignment of 19 specialist posts in the Defence Forces has been approved to kick-start the operation of this unit, which is headed up by an officer of general rank. In addition to this, the Department is engaging with the Public Appointments Service to recruit ten civilian cyber specialists who will be embedded in this new cyber unit, and we want to see these posts filled as soon as possible. They have been sanctioned and we want to get them started. To this end, the Public Appointment Service has launched a campaign to recruit for the role of principal officer, cyber lead. The closing date for applications for this post was 10 April. Additionally, competitions will be launched imminently to fill two additional roles at the level of engineer grade 1. These roles will be focused on cyberthreat intelligence and cyber resilience. I am pleased to say we are significantly expanding the number of people working in this area.  I should also mention that officials from my Department and the Defence Forces work closely with the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications and the National Cyber Security Centre. That Department is the Department with lead Government responsibility for cybersecurity in Ireland. We work collaboratively to support measures to address cyber challenges. I am satisfied that from a defence perspective we are on a much-needed positive trajectory to ensure the new cyber command unit is well positioned to meet the ambitions we have set out in the cyber strategy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an T\u00e1naiste. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 iontach le cloiste\u00e1il go bhfuil an obair sin \u00e1 d\u00e9anamh aige. It is great to see the T\u00e1naiste is working collaboratively with the Defence Forces to establish this new unit but we need to see our Defence Forces equipped, trained and empowered to meet these real threats. I ask the Department to meet the universities, one of which, DCU, I just left. They are developing new courses but to develop the talent in our population to work in these new Defence Forces offices we need to introduce new courses which are constantly evolving. As happened when the HSE was hacked, I ask the Minister to look into all Departments across the board to make sure they are running with up-to-date systems that are adequate and working. It is about building long-term resilience at every level of the State. I thank the T\u00e1naiste. I would like to see this being done quickly and effectively, given the emerging threats that are ever-growing in this climate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  This is clearly an ever evolving and growing area that will be of crucial importance to the Defence Forces and our security in the coming time. The T\u00e1naiste instanced the new committee and it is very important that it is given adequate briefings on these issues as they arise and develop. The T\u00e1naiste mentioned the cybersecurity command had been established. The most recent report I saw in The Irish Times was that it was to be established. Perhaps there is more up-to-date information than that. I understood the Department and the Defence Forces had advertised for a cybersecurity lead. Perhaps the T\u00e1naiste can inform me on whether the person has been appointed. I tabled my question to seek an update on the establishment and the T\u00e1naiste is saying it has been established. Perhaps he will give me a timeline on when it was established and whether the lead person has been appointed and when they took office. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I am checking the tenses in my answer, and my answer tells me the Defence Forces have established a new joint cyberdefence command. The truth is in what I said. We have seen the assignment of 19 Defence Forces specialist posts to kick-start the unit and it is headed up by someone of general rank. Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire is also correct that we are filling the principal officer role for cyber lead, which will supplement the ten civilian cyber specialists. The closing date for that post was 10 April. This post has not yet been filled. Additionally, a competition is about to be launched for two additional roles at the level of engineer grade 1. I will write to the Deputy specifically on when I intend to have those people in place.  I will come back to the point Deputy Heneghan made on skills. He is right on this. I am a former Minister for higher education. We have to work with our universities. We have great universities. It is about making sure our universities have a clear understanding of the pipeline of skills our country needs and that we have a clear understanding of what the universities are doing. There generally is good collaboration but I might look specifically at having Defence Forces third level engagement with the Minister, Deputy Lawless, and the relevant universities on this.  Deputy Heneghan asked more broadly, beyond the Defence Forces, how we make sure all Departments and agencies are secure. I remember the HSE hack and the hack of a number of universities, including MTU. The National Cyber Security Centre is responsible for advising and informing Government IT critical national infrastructure providers overall. It has the overarching role and it sits in the Department of the environment. It is headed by Richard Browne and we all feed into it through relevant Departments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I welcome the fact the T\u00e1naiste will engage with the universities. As I have seen growing up and going through the education system, mol an \u00f3ige agus tiocfaidh s\u00ed. If we do not invest in education and universities and give them the option, they will go. As the T\u00e1naiste mentioned, cyberdefence depends on highly skilled personnel. I welcome the fact the T\u00e1naiste has mentioned this. I have many friends in the Defence Forces and from speaking to them I know they would like to go down this route. An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na also plays a key role in this. It is not only international risks as we also face internal risks from crime gangs learning how to send fake texts and emails. A great deal of investment needs to go into this to protect our vulnerable, including the elderly who fall victim to these hacks. I welcome that the T\u00e1naiste has already mentioned this. I would like to see it being done as quickly as possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  This comes back to my earlier question a little bit. We will continue to have a significant challenge in recruiting and retaining key staff for an area such as this unless something significant changes. If we get things right, the Defence Forces can offer a very rewarding and interesting career for people who have the skills and capabilities in this area but I do not think we are in the right position at present. I did not take a note of the number of staff the T\u00e1naiste mentioned but we are speaking about a number of staff being recruited or seconded for the cybersecurity command. The long-term ambition is 100 additional staff under level of ambition two and up to 300 or another 200 additional staff under level of ambition three. Where are we at with regard to specialist staff?  I would also make the point, not strongly but as something that needs to be considered, that I would be somewhat of the view that we need to consider carefully the ecosystem around cybersecurity. We need to be careful about having too many cooks in all the different agencies that could potentially have a role. I am not saying they do not all have a role but that needs some consideration and thought over the next while. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy is absolutely correct. One of the issues the Government is giving consider to is that ecosystem. The Deputy will be aware that we have established for the first time a Cabinet committee on national security, chaired by the Taoiseach, in which I and the Minister for Justice participate. We are developing a national security strategy.  I agree cyber affects us. Deputy Heneghan asked me to look into all Departments and every agency, but where the buck stops and where there are clear lines of responsibility is important. We are clear in terms of the lead function being the National Cyber Security Centre but Government will give consideration to that overall national security architecture.  Coming back to the Deputy's point about the new Oireachtas Committee on Defence and National Security, which the Deputy's party colleague will chair, it will provide an important opportunity to try to make sure we can have, within the respective parameters of the importance of sensitive information, a good flow of information and briefings. I am willing and eager to co-operate with that new committee. We do not discuss national security issues and threats and cybersecurity nearly enough in the Oireachtas and I welcome the creation of the new committee.  The Deputy's numbers are correct. So far, we have 19 from the Defence Forces plus ten civilians. That brings us to 29 when fully populated, which is not yet. Obviously, that is to start the unit. We will obviously be seeking to grow that in the time ahead. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cybersecurity Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_38","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Defence Forces","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_38","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_38.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  I understand that at the end of February there were in excess of 7,500 personnel enlisted in the Permanent Defence Force. This is just over 4,000 short of the ambition outlined in the programme for Government. We need to increase enlistment by 50%, which is a substantial target to achieve. Would the T\u00e1naiste have any indication at this stage when he would hope to at least get the enlistment above the 8,000 figure because it is important that we get back to a critical enlistment across all aspects of the Permanent Defence Force? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Smith for the question. The Deputy is correct. Recruitment and retention have to be a key priority for Government because so much else of what we want to do, in terms of the national security space, the capability of the Defence Forces and the infrastructure we want to purchase and secure, relies on having men and women to operate and operationalise much of that.  Figures provided for 2024 give us some cause for hope in terms of a stabilisation in numbers. It was the first year in quite a number of years where we saw modest growth but we certainly saw a stabilisation in the number of people in the Defence Forces. There were 708 personnel inducted into the Defence Forces in 2024 and this is the highest number in over five years.  The current strength of the Permanent Defence Force, as at 9 April 2025, the latest date for which this figure is available, stood at 7,545 personnel. The Defence Forces have further advised that they are targeting 800 inductions at a minimum for this year.  The Deputy's question is a fair one. I suppose being able to predict the number is not an exact science because it depends on retirements, etc., as well. If we had 708 inducted last year and if we could get to 800 inductions this year, there would be a real clear trajectory of growth but it would also give us a great sense of confidence that the Defence Forces had the ability to ramp up their numbers in terms of inductions.  We need to step up the scale of ambition even further in terms of making greater progress and I have had good engagement and conversations with the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces and made him clear of Government's ambitions in that regard.  Recruitment to the Defence Forces and the positive trajectory has not happened by accident. It has happened because we have taken a number of decisions. We established a joint induction training centre in Gormanston, and the military authorities have advised that when fully operational, this will enable induction training to be provided to 900 recruits per annum. Recently, the largest recruit class of 72 recruits was welcomed into the facility.  In February 2025, my Department signed a contract for the construction of a new modern gymnasium, with multipurpose hall, as well as a purpose-built obstacle course at the Gormanston camp. This contract is scheduled to take 15 months to complete.  There has been significant progress on pay, which is also important. We need to make sure we get the message out that recruits on completion of training now start at \u20ac41,465 inclusive of military service allowance in year 1, which represents an increase of 49% over the past six years. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  It is good to know there is stabilisation. Hopefully, stabilisation and an increase in enlistment would give more momentum to recruitment and obviously to the important retention aspect as well.  The programme for Government has a welcome commitment to build on improvements in the recruitment process, including a nationwide programme for transition year and third level students and better representation of women at all levels of the Defence Forces. Are there particular measures being implemented this year to implement those commitments?  Also, there is a commitment to examine incentives and structural changes to make a military career accessible to a wider range of candidates and to encourage existing personnel to extend their military careers. Far too often, I have seen very young people leave the Defence Forces with the ludicrous situation a few years ago where some people had to leave after 20 years' service. There were young women and men in their early forties who were forced to retire. It made no sense whatsoever. Most of them have gone on to other careers. I made representations on behalf of many of them but they could not be kept on because of the contract they went in under. I sincerely hope that no organ of the State will ever introduce such a type of recruitment and terms of employment in the future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Smith. I may have a look at that. The point the Deputy makes is a fair one. We are seeing an increase, thankfully, in the number of people joining the Defence Forces. We want to see a greater increase in diversity within the Defence Forces, and most particularly in terms of female participation.  I am pleased to say that already a number of initiatives have been implemented to increase the level of female participation in the Permanent Defence Force. This includes the establishment by the Defence Forces of a female-specific recruitment team which co-ordinates attendance of tri-service female-specific recruiting teams at national, regional and local events, attendance by male and female representatives at all recruitment events, and a gender perspective incorporated in all advertising. The appointment of a gender adviser at senior military rank in 2024 was an important development. There are fitness-test requirements tailored for females. The recruitment office is also actively reaching out to female applicants in the recruitment pipeline in order to support them throughout the application process should they need any further support or advice because we often see here, and in the Garda as well, a high number of people who apply but that does not always result in the same number of people coming in. There is a particular focus where we see an application from a female in terms of reaching out and saying, \"You want to be in the Defence Forces. How can we work with you?\"  I am pleased to say we also now have a Defence Forces women's network established with the aim of increasing the participation of female personnel at all levels of the organisation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his further response. I genuinely believe that if we had a stronger Reserve Defence Forces, it would be a great conduit for enlistment in the Permanent Defence Force. I represented two Border constituencies during many bad years on this island. I saw the importance of the Reserve Defence Forces along the Border working in the communities that I have the privilege of representing and living in.  Over the years the Reserve Defence Forces recruited many young people who may have been vulnerable to other unsavoury groups. Many of those young people went on to have star careers in the Permanent Defence Force. We should have a strengthened Reserve Defence Forces. It can be an extra welcome ingredient in getting more people enlisted in the Permanent Defence Force.  The T\u00e1naiste will have the opportunity to talk to some of the people who would have served in the Border areas during the bad days. Unfortunately, that went on for many decades. I knew many Army personnel at all levels who I lived among and who I came across in my daily activities because their presence was needed in our communities. They will give the T\u00e1naiste a clear and positive message about the importance of the Reserve Defence Forces and what they could do in the future, not going back to the work that they did in the past but as a recruitment process to strengthen the Permanent Defence Force as well as carrying out their own important work. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I fully agree with the Deputy. When we talk about the Defence Forces, we need to talk about the total number of men and women who are available to come to the aid of the State, if and when that is required. Of course, an important component of that is the Permanent Defence Force but it is also important that there is inter-locking between that and the Reserve Defence Forces' men and women who can be called up and can assist in ways as the need arises.  I have had good meetings in recent weeks with the representative body in relation to the Reserve. I have had good conversations about how we can make sure we do more in terms of those constant connectivities and links between the Permanent Defence Force and the Reserve.  I am also very eager for advertising campaigns to be run and recruitment information to be disseminated about the Reserve Defence Forces. I would very much welcome an opportunity to meet with people who served in the Border region along with the Deputy to discuss that further. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence Forces"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_39","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Departmental Meetings","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_39","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_39.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  My question is very specific and relates to a specific organisation. It is about a specific series of meetings the Department of Defence has had with the Irish Defence and Security Association. This is my third time asking for the minutes of these meetings. On the last occasion, whoever was in the T\u00e1naiste's place told us it was his intention to publish these minutes. I have two notes here. To say they are opaque would be extremely generous. Will the T\u00e1naiste answer my question? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Deputy Connolly is referring to meetings between officials from the Department of Defence and the Irish Defence and Security Association. As she is aware, the IDSA was established in 2021. Its mission is:  to ensure Ireland develops appropriate, leading edge and trusted defence and security capabilities in the land, sea, air, space and cyber domains, in order to protect our society, create jobs, drive research and enhance Ireland\u2019s economic growth  National defence industry associations are the norm in most EU member states. They provide support to industry operating in defence markets in a number of ways. They create networks, disseminate information and assist contractors to find suitable sub-contractors. They are important for our small and medium-sized enterprises, particularly as I have been very clear about our ambition to increase our capabilities. I want Irish companies to be able to benefit from that.  In that context, the IDSA plays a role in enhancing awareness between Irish industry and my Department through periodic engagement. Departmental engagement with the IDSA is primarily around identifying opportunities to support Irish enterprise and research bodies in accessing EU funding streams and providing support and opportunities to companies, especially SMEs, to develop technologies to keep our Defence Forces safe whether they are on missions and operations overseas or undertaking a range of duties at home and abroad.  The minutes requested under Parliamentary Question No. 117 of 5 February 2025 refer to meetings the Department held with the IDSA. Minutes are available for meetings since October 2024, when scheduled meeting arrangements were put in place. The minutes of two meetings, which took place in October 2024 and December 2024, have now been published on the website of the Department of Defence. Officials from my Department held a subsequent meeting with the IDSA on 10 April and the minutes of that meeting will be published on the Department's website shortly. I have directed the Department of Defence to publish the minutes of all meetings held with the Irish Defence and Security Association on its website. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  I did not see those minutes. Perhaps we did not look properly. I do not know. I welcome that they are there. I will take back the word \"minutes\" because these are not minutes. What I have are two notes. To describe them as \"minutes\" is utterly wrong. In the notes of one meeting that was held in Newbridge, we see that a person took the notes in October 2024. We have no idea of the agenda or of the outcome other than that \"It was agreed that ... and some of his team\" and so on. It is vague and opaque and we have no idea of the purpose of the meeting. We also have a note dating from 12 December. Again, there is no agenda laid out. This one only tells us where the meeting was held when we go down into the text. They are very opaque as notes of meetings. It is like somebody wrote them up because the question was asked.  Let us look at this organisation. It was set up in 2021. Ben Tonra is a member. He is on record declaring that he had been volunteering to set up this organisation for some time. This is a man who has serious views on neutrality being selfish. He is part of this organisation that lobbies for the international arms industry. That is how I see it. The T\u00e1naiste can correct me if I am wrong. I am over time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I hope the Deputy will let me take a look at the minutes and let my office provide her with clarity as to where they are. I hope she will give me feedback on that. My note tells me that, in summary, the minutes of the meeting on 2 October largely refer to preparations for the Department's participation in an IDSA event held in November and that the minutes of the meeting on 12 December refer to enhancing communication between the Department and the association and scheduling future periodic meetings. There is also reference to a brief discussion on the European defence technology industrial base, EDTIB. I am told the minutes were published on the Department of Defence website on Monday, 7 April 2025.  We may have different perspectives on this. I believe transparency is important but that it is okay to talk to industry representative bodies. I have been very clear that we are going to be spending a lot more money on national security and defence. So are most European countries. We are doing it in the context of being militarily neutral. Irish companies need to be enabled and to have the information to benefit from that investment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  The arms industry is supplying arms for genocide to be carried out in Palestine. The T\u00e1naiste knows that. He has spoken about it. This group represents the arms industry, it lobbies for the arms industry and it has an open door to the Department. I know of a series of meetings. Is the T\u00e1naiste confirming that the minutes, or whatever we are going to call them, of all 11 meetings that have been held are available? He should be able to confirm that. He should be able to tell me the nature of those meetings, where they were held, how long they lasted, who attended and so on. None of that is apparent. It is completely opaque. If the T\u00e1naiste wants transparency, the least he can do is to give us an accurate record of the meetings and to tell us their purpose, who called them, their outcomes and so on. This is the arms industry. It has no moral conscience and exists for profit. Its weapons are being used to murder people and to commit genocide. As a neutral sovereign State, if our Department of Defence is meeting a lobbying group, at the very least it should be open, transparent and accountable about it. When the people who are involved are on TV shows or the radio, they should make declarations as to their background and interests. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I am not sure whether the Deputy would use that sort of language outside the House. It is quite an extraordinary thing to say about an association established with the mission \"to ensure Ireland develops appropriate, leading edge and trusted defence and security capabilities in the land, sea, air, space and cyber domains\". The Deputy has said the most extraordinary things about the association. I have never met with the association in my life and do not speak for it but it is entirely appropriate that the State interact with people who represent industry because----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  Does that include the arms industry? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy attaches to everything----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Catherine-Connolly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Connolly  It is not everything. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  -----that has to do with national security the arms industry. We are going to need to procure radar, sonar and uniforms for the men and women of the Defence Forces. The Deputy may disagree but the Government is clear that we are going to level of ambition 2 as set out in the Commission on the Defence Forces report. We then want to go to level of ambition 3. That is going to require spending money and Irish companies should be in a position to benefit. That is all it is about. We do not publish the minutes of every meeting that every Government official has with every agency on a Government website but, in this case, I am happy to do so because I believe the Deputy is right. The minutes were published on the website on 7 April. As I have said very clearly, those minutes refer to meetings that took place since October 2024. I have been very clear that I want meetings to be scheduled and structured and that minutes should be published after each of them. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Departmental Meetings"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_40","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Defence Forces","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_40.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  I ask this question on behalf of Deputy O'Meara. As the T\u00e1naiste will know, Uachtar\u00e1n na h\u00c9ireann today paid tribute to members of the Civil Defence. Ireland's Civil Defence has been in existence for 75 years. I am sure we all compliment them on the great work they do in our local communities.  I welcome the T\u00e1naiste's announcement during the week regarding instructor allowances for officers in the Defence Forces. The announcement of instructor payments for officer members who are heavily relied on to plan, supervise and deliver crucial training along with their non-commissioned instructor colleagues is a vital measure in recruitment and retention, which we spoke about earlier. Will the T\u00e1naiste let us know when this particular measure will be implemented? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I join with Deputy Smith and Uachtar\u00e1n na h\u00c9ireann in paying tribute to our Civil Defence volunteers. It is an incredible organisation. While lots of things did not go to plan during Storm \u00c9owyn, I was briefly in Monaghan in the Deputy's constituency while on the way back from somewhere else and met some of the Civil Defence volunteers and the work they did was incredible. I know that was replicated right across the country. I was in Roscommon opening the new state-of-the-art Civil Defence headquarters only a couple of weeks ago. Deputy Smith is right to pay tribute to the Civil Defence, particularly in the year of its 75th anniversary. All of us on all sides of the House thank the volunteers for what they do.  The Deputy will have seen my recent announcement confirming the introduction of a payment to officer instructors in the Defence Forces. Over recent months, my Department has engaged with the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform, with a view to recognising the upskilling of officer instructors through the introduction of a professional instructor payment. I thank the Minister, Deputy Chambers, for working with me on this. The security of the State and its citizens must be a key priority for any government. It is our most solemn obligation. In that context, this Government has committed to strengthening our Defence Forces. Of course, to strengthen the Defence Forces, we rely heavily on the expertise and experience of instructors, who deliver high-quality training programmes to new recruits.  These programmes act as a key driver to transform culture and to modernise the Defence Forces to ensure that the State has a professional Defence Forces capable of undertaking roles assigned by Government.  In order to achieve the necessary scale of change, the Commission on the Defence Forces report highlighted core areas that needed to be addressed, including the transformational change to modernise the organisation's culture through re-engaging in a different way with its core values, renewing its contract with its people, and with modern work practices. A higher level of education of specialism is, therefore, now required for officer ranks as well. Professional instructors will play a critical role in ensuring the training is carried out in relation to that culture. This is an important incentivising measure. The new measure will apply to nearly 100 officer rank instructors who must possess advanced education specialist expertise and substantial experience. It will be restricted to those officers serving as instructors in the Defence Forces training roles who have completed the required instructor courses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his reply. I will ask just one further supplementary question, given that other Members are waiting to ask questions also. The T\u00e1naiste will be aware of another issue of interest to Defence Forces' organisations, which is the finding of the defence sector arbitration board on 18 November. It upheld a ruling that the terms and conditions the director of military prosecutions should be amended to remove the prohibition on that officeholder holding membership of a representative association. I believe this issue may have not yet come to the T\u00e1naiste's attention. I do not believe that person should be barred from holding membership of a representative organisation if he or she so wishes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Smith for bringing that matter to my attention. I will, in consultation with my officials, reflect on that judgment, and no doubt in my engagement with representative bodies. I look forward to visiting a number of their conferences and we will have an opportunity to further discuss that. I am happy to come back to the Deputy once I have considered the issue. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence Forces"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_41","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Naval Service","counts":{"speechCount":14,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_41","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel McCarthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_41.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  Last October the then T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Defence, Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin, approved the berthing of the newly refurbished and purchased inshore patrol vessels, the L\u00c9 Aoibhinn and the L\u00c9 Gobnait, at D\u00fan Laoghaire Harbour. Will the T\u00e1naiste update the House on the timeline for these vessels being fully commissioned and fully operational, and the current status on discussions between his Department and D\u00fan Laoghaire Rathdown County Council regarding the berthing and their long-term presence in the harbour? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I propose to take Questions Nos. 161, 168, 184 and 188 together.  The Naval Service currently has a fleet of eight commissioned vessels. These eight vessels consist of two P50 class large patrol vessels, four P60 class offshore patrol vessels, and two P70 inshore patrol vessels. The military authorities have advised that three of the P60 class offshore patrol vessels are currently available for operations and conduct patrols on a rotation basis. The fourth P60 vessel is currently undergoing a planned maintenance period. The L\u00c9 Aoibhinn is fully operational and is regularly deployed on maritime defence and security operations within Irish territorial waters and the Irish exclusive economic zone, primarily along the east coast.  Taken together, this entails that at the moment there are two vessels actively operational at sea. The two P50 class vessels, the L\u00c9 R\u00f3is\u00edn and the and L\u00c9 Niamh are currently in operational reserve on the recommendation of the Naval Service.  Deputies will be aware of the challenges facing the Naval Service in recent years, namely around recruitment and retention. To that end, I am pleased to say that we have recently seen a positive uptake in the numbers of new recruits joining the Naval Service. This upturn, in my view, is attributable to a range of measures, including the doubling of the patrol duty allowance, which took effect in January 2024. The effect has been that no patrol days have been cancelled or lost during 2024 or to date in 2025. A total of 97 personnel were inducted into the Naval Service in 2024, consisting of 80 general service recruits, 13 cadets, two re-enlisted personnel, one direct entry electrical artificer, and one direct entry chef. To date in 2025, a further 37 personnel have been inducted into training in the Naval Service and the most recent strength figure available as of 9 April is 745 wholetime equivalent personnel, of an agreed establishment strength of 1,094.  In addition, we have invested heavily in improving the building infrastructure at Haulbowline, particularly focusing on improving the accommodation provided to serving personnel when on duty. To date, \u20ac13.5 million has been invested in providing additional accommodation. Since the inception of the Defence Forces infrastructure development plan \u20ac18.5 million has been invested in various projects across the naval base.  Extensive work is ongoing to oversee a turnaround in the level of operational activity by our Naval Service and to this end I instructed a team consisting senior military officers, led by our Chief of Staff, and my senior officials to conduct a detailed workshop with the Naval Service. We need an action plan now for the Naval Service. On foot of this three-day workshop, conducted in March, a detailed report from the military authorities is being prepared to include courses of action to increase the numbers of ships at sea.  With regard to contact with D\u00fan Laoghaire, I do not have the most up-to-date information on that but I know how important the issue is to D\u00fan Laoghaire. Having a presence on the east coast of Ireland, and particularly in D\u00fan Laoghaire, is an issue of concern for Deputy Devlin, and I see great wisdom in it too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his reply. The strategic positioning of those inland patrol vessels in D\u00fan Laoghaire would allow for increased patrol and coverage, particularly along the eastern and south-eastern coast, and would help address the ongoing pressures the Naval Service is experiencing. I raised this matter consistently in the last D\u00e1il with the T\u00e1naiste's predecessors. Until the former flagship, the L\u00c9 Eithne was decommissioned it had been twinned with D\u00fan Laoghaire throughout her long and distinguished career. I now formally request that the Government consider one, or ideally both, of the new vessels be twinned with D\u00fan Laoghaire Harbour again. This will not only continue a proud, local naval tradition but will also help to cement the harbour's future role as a permanent hub for the Naval Service. This is something the town and the wider hinterland would be very eager to support. I would appreciate a commitment to keep me briefed on this matter as it progresses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I will indeed keep the Deputy briefed on this matter. I am very happy to visit the harbour in D\u00fan Laoghaire with him and Oireachtas colleagues. I know this is an issue of real interest to people in D\u00fan Laoghaire, to the people on the east coast, and to the Naval Service. In addition to the operational benefits this could well bring, there is also a secondary benefit, which is the visibility of the Naval Service to the young men and women on the east coast who may wish to join and be recruited. There is a very proud tradition, of which we should be rightly proud, of the Naval Service in Cork as our national Naval Service presence in Cork. We are very proud of that and we are investing more in that. Imagine the benefit if the service also had a visibility and a presence on the east coast in somewhere like D\u00fan Laoghaire. Let me talk further to the Chief of Staff and to officials in my Department and we can arrange a follow-up discussion on this shortly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel McCarthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Noel McCarthy  Will the Minister for Defence outline the Naval Service current fleet complement, the number of ships that are fully crewed and at sea, and his Department's plans for further upgrading of the fleet? Will he please make a statement on the matter? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank my colleague, Deputy Noel McCarthy, and I thank him for inviting me to Haulbowline, which he has done for a number of weeks. I very much look forward to visiting it with Deputy McCarthy and with colleagues in Cork because I am pleased to say we are investing heavily in improving the building infrastructure at Haulbowline. We have had a particular focus in recent years on trying to improve the accommodation to support our serving personnel while on duty. We have spent \u20ac13.5 million so far in providing additional accommodation. Since the inception of our development plan \u20ac18.5 million has been invested in various projects across the Haulbowline naval base as well. My senior officials, the incumbent Chief of Staff and others were down there recently for that three-day workshop to see what more we can do to support the Naval Service.  In direct answer to the Deputy's question, on 9 April 2025 there were 745 wholetime equivalent personnel within the Naval Service. I am pleased to see an uptick in the number of people now signing up. New recruits joining the Naval Service is much needed and requires constant attention. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel McCarthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Noel McCarthy  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his response. I have huge respect for the Naval Service and the job it does. I have family members directly involved in the service. I was pleased to see the significant increase in funding provided to the Defence Forces in the last budget. I particularly welcome the Commission on the Defence Forces' recommendation of an accelerated programme of naval vessel replacement. In reference to this, how many of the current fleet have completed a mid-life extension programme to date, and how many are proposed to undergo such a programme in the future? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank the Deputy. I know that he and his family have a proud family history of serving our State through the Naval Service. I thank them and all families across our country who have proud traditions with \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. I welcome the fact we now have the largest Defence Forces budget that we have ever had in our country, but we have a long way to go in terms of investing in the capabilities we need, and in particular having a better understanding of what happens up in our skies and below our seas. Debate in this House often gets drawn down an alleyway into one about military neutrality. We have no plans to change military neutrality but that is not an excuse or a cop out for not properly investing in our national security.  On the Deputy's specific question on mid-life extensions, I will ask the Defence Forces for the latest information on that.  I will provide that to the Deputy in writing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his presence today.  Much of what I was intending to ask has already been discussed with regard to the number of vessels at the disposal of the Naval Service, the number in actual deployment and the number we are capable of resourcing and staffing to commission them into deployment. I am very fortunate to live within a couple of miles of the Naval Service HQ in Haulbowline and to represent the area nearby, and we are very proud of the great work that the Naval Service has done and is doing. As the T\u00e1naiste has said a number of times during this discussion, the importance of defence is an area that is increasingly becoming important for us as a nation. We all know the great work that the Naval Service does in protecting our territorial waters. My key question relates to the number of vessels available, the staffing requirements and where exactly we stand with regard to being able to deploy those vessels on a day-to-day basis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Deputy McGrath knows from his own community and constituency the importance of the pride within which the Naval Service is held across our country, particularly in the part of the country where he lives because people are so familiar with the service there. I look forward to visiting Haulbowline with him in the time ahead. The Naval Service currently has a fleet of eight commissioned vehicles: two P50-class large patrol vessels, four P60-class offshore patrol vessels and two P70 inshore patrol vessels. The military authorities have advised me that three of the P60 class are currently available for operations, and they are conducting patrols on a rotation basis. The fourth vessel is currently undergoing planned maintenance. Basically, it means there are approximately two vessels actively operational at sea at any time. The big thing we need to do for our Naval Service in addition to getting more ships at sea is to provide sonar capability. As the Deputy knows, we hear about suspicious ships from time to time near the part of the country where he lives. Having that sonar capability, as well as our radar capabilities, would make a real difference to the security of the State. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I welcome the T\u00e1naiste's response. As I outlined earlier in terms of the importance of defence and protecting our territorial waters, the role of the Naval Service has expanded quite a lot in recent years in terms of maritime surveillance, protecting our marine assets, deterring criminal activity and smuggling and so on. It is welcome that we have a number of vessels at our disposal. I heard earlier that the direction of travel regarding recruitment and so on seems very positive, even though we are a bit short in terms of our overall headcount. The priority this Government is giving defence is very welcome, and I welcome the T\u00e1naiste's role in that. I ask that he continues to prioritise defence, particularly the Naval Service, as we are an island nation and it is critically important for us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy is right. We have to invest more in defence. In fairness, a lot of work was done, much of it by my predecessor, the Taoiseach, in terms of the Commission on the Future of the Defence Forces. That was a very helpful and important piece of infrastructure. What we do not need to do, however, is every time we try to spend some money on defence, everybody asks about funding for another Department. We do not do that with regard to anything else. If somebody says we are giving more money to the Department of education, people do not ask about the Department of Health. Yet, any time we talk about spending more on national security, people ask why we are not putting more money into every other public service. National security is not just something that is nice to have. It is really important. If, God forbid, we did not invest more in this and did not have the capabilities and something happened off our seas or in our skies, we would be facing more difficult questions in terms of why we did not make those investment decisions. We are in a good place. We have a long way to go, as the Deputy rightly said, to get to where we need to be in terms of the numbers of people in \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. It is all a jigsaw and is interlinked; if people start to see more investment, increased capability, more operations and the likes, it makes the Defence Forces more attractive. The reverse is also true. We need to get all the pieces of the jigsaw together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his response. Will the items we discussed today, namely, the commissioning, operational timelines, berthing arrangements and twinning with D\u00fan Laoghaire, be actively considered? Will his officials engage directly with me on the next steps?  I express my own gratitude to the men and women of our Defence Forces for their continued service and bravery, both at home and abroad. Given today is the 75th anniversary for our Civil Defence, I congratulate it on its service here in Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  My officials and I will keep in close contact with the Deputy on those issues as well. I thank him for his words of tribute to members of the Defence Forces. I am very conscious that, this week, men and women who have served in the 125th battalion in Lebanon are beginning to return home. I was in Renmore Barracks, where the 126th battalion is getting ready to be deployed to Lebanon. I met very excited soldiers, and sometimes nervous mothers, grannies, wives, husbands and children worried about their relative being away from the family. The sacrifices that the men and women of \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann and military families make is something we should rightly pay tribute to and acknowledge. The Civil Defence in the Deputy's own community, my community and across the country makes an incredible contribution. On its 75th anniversary, Deputy Devlin is so right to rise and pay tribute to it today, and I join him in that. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Naval Service"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_42","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Defence Forces","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_42","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_42.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  Will the T\u00e1naiste outline his plans for investment at Gormanston Camp? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy O'Rourke for raising the question and the opportunity it provides to discuss some of the various investments and infrastructure improvements that are either currently under way, or are being planned, at Gormanston Camp in County Meath. As I know the Deputy will be aware, this training installation has now been designated as the Defence Forces\u2019 Joint Induction Training Centre. Its function is to accommodate the induction training of all future recruits into the Defence Forces. In February of this year, my Department signed a contract for the construction of a new modern gymnasium at a value of \u20ac7.8 million for a multipurpose hall, as well as a purpose-built training obstacle course at Gormanston Camp. This project, I am pleased to say, is now under construction, and the estimated date for completion is May 2026. Last month, my Department also signed a contract for the construction of a new locker block for enlisted personnel at Gormanston Camp, valued at \u20ac1.5 million. It is estimated it will take nine months to complete that.  In addition to this new facility, the following construction works and projects are also under way at Gormanston: the upgrade of blocks A and B and the provision of a new running track. These projects, with a combined value of \u20ac1.1 million, are due to be completed this year. In the coming years, projects which are at various stages of procurement design and planning will deliver new buildings for Gormanston Camp at a combined value of more than \u20ac14 million. The buildings in question are a dining hall and an accommodation block with capacity for 100 people.  All of the projects I have mentioned are part of and are included in the Defence Forces infrastructure development plan, which sets out a programme of project delivery up to 2027. The capital allocation for building works in military installations and barracks around the country for the last five years was approximately \u20ac170 million. This year the capital allocation stands at \u20ac50 million for capital investment, with a further \u20ac12.5 million for ongoing maintenance and running costs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  That investment is welcome. It was welcome news in February. It is also welcome that the work is under way. It will be this time next year when it will be ready. Does the T\u00e1naiste have an indication of when it will be operational or the numbers of people that will pass through it? I understand that it is for all units of the Defence Forces to use as a training camp. I wish to get a sense of the level of activity that might be there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I will read my note to give the Deputy the up-to-date figures. I am told that in 2024, 577 recruits were inducted, consisting of 451 Army, 46 Air Corps and 80 Naval Service recruits into the Permanent Defence Forces. As of 28 February, which is the last date I have for figures, 34 recruits were inducted so far this year. On 19 March 2025, Gormanston welcomed its largest recruit class at 72 recruits, and when fully operational, it will have the capacity to accommodate the induction of 900 recruits per annum.  The Deputy asked about timelines. As he rightly said, the works that were signed for in February - the multipurpose hall and the purpose-built obstacle course - are now under construction and are due to be completed by May 2026. That construction has started. I need to check the difference between when it will be completed and when it will be operational. I do not expect there is a timeline there of much significance, but I will come back to the Deputy directly on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I thank the T\u00e1naiste. As I said, it is a welcome investment. I recognise the security considerations and other considerations, but is there an opportunity for the local community to access, in some shape or form, the likes of those facilities?  We recognise that there are security considerations and other considerations, but if, for example, there were a transition period during which the facilities were not being used or some arrangement could be made, is it possible that something like that could be considered? Between Gormanston and Stamullen there is a growing population and a real shortage of amenities generally. Specifically, I refer to Stamullen FC, for example, the local soccer club. This is something we have tried to raise in the past. We would like to see this very welcome investment used to its full potential, notwithstanding the security constraints. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I am smiling because this is one of the questions I get asked most frequently when I go around the country. The Deputy is right that our barracks often have good facilities and communities ask if they can get in too. Obviously, there are requirements from a security point of view, but there is also the issue of wanting our communities to be familiar with them. There have been good examples. This comes up a lot in the context of Cathal Brugha Barracks. It came up in the context of Renmore when I was there recently. I met a local community group wanting to know. In general, I have found the position of the Defence Forces and the Chief of Staff to be one of wanting to work with local communities where possible. \"I do not know\" is the honest answer to the question about Gormanston, but I will talk to the Chief of Staff about it and I am happy to come back to the Deputy with a written update. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Questions Nos. 163 and 164 are to be taken together. Only one of the Deputies is here. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence Forces"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_43","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Defence Forces","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_43","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_43.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Could the T\u00e1naiste detail the plans this year as regards funding, resourcing, recruitment and retention at the Defence Forces? We all know that if we take this over a five-year period, we have had more losses than we have had recruitment. It is a huge issue. We are well away from reaching what is necessary for level of ambition 2. I think that at present we could be below the numbers required even for level of ambition 1. What is to be done? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I propose to take Questions Nos. 163 and 164 together.  It is a fair point. It is a matter of lies, damned lies and statistics. It depends on when one measures the point. I am going to say progress has been made in the last year and the Deputy is going to say, \"Actually, if you look back over a number of years\", and both could be true. The reality is that there are some encouraging signs of a stabilisation now as regards recruitment and retention, but I am also very truthful on this in that there is a long way to go to get to where we need to be, so there is certainly no room for complacency at all. What is interesting, though, is that we are seeing through the application process very significant interest in joining the Defence Forces, and that is to be welcomed.  As of 9 April of this year, as I said earlier today, we have seen 7,545 whole-time equivalent personnel in the Defence Forces. That is 6,074 in our Army, 726 in our Air Corps and 745 in our Naval Service. We need to continue to build on this. I am pleased to say that we had 708 people inducted into the Permanent Defence Force last year. That was the highest number in over five years. The Defence Forces - I meet them regularly on this; I spoke to the Chief of Staff on this recently - are hoping to induct 800 at least this year as well. That would be encouraging. In addition to that, we are seeing an encouraging trend gleaned from the discharges figure for last year. Last year, there was a discharges figure of 674. That was 81 fewer than the previous year and the lowest in four years. Therefore, last year saw the highest number inducted in over five years and the lowest number of discharges in over four years. We have to build on that. There are encouraging signs that this year will build on it, but let us keep the focus on that. I think some of this has happened because of some of the decisions we have taken and are taking and some of the work the Defence Forces have done. The points the Deputy's colleague Deputy O'Rourke just put to me are a part of it. Having that new joint induction training centre established in Gormanston was important. That will have really good facilities to train up to 900 recruits each year. As I said, the centre recently saw its largest recruit class to date, with 72 people go in the doors. We are putting the facilities in there, including gyms, multipurpose halls and purpose-built obstacle course. They are state-of-the-art training facilities. It is an example of our commitment to supporting people who join the Defence Forces. We now have the largest Defence Forces budget ever.  We have seen a very significant improvement in pay. The pay of recruits on completion of training now starts at \u20ac41,465 in year one. School leaver cadets upon commissioning earn \u20ac45,341 while in full-time education, and graduate cadets commence on \u20ac50,667, inclusive of military service allowance. It should be noted that interest in a career in the Defence Forces grew significantly in the last year. We had 13,384 applications, an increase of a third on the previous year. I am pleased to say this trend has continued this year with over 4,000 applications received by the end of March. We have increased the maximum recruitment age to 39. We have increased the mandatory retirement age to 62. We have extended private secondary healthcare to all Permanent Defence Force members. In addition, we have seen the patrol duty allowance payable to the Naval Service personnel at sea doubled, the Naval Service tax credit extended for a further five years and, very importantly, the provisions of the working time directive extended to the Defence Forces, subject to some exemptions but for the first time ever. There is a lot of work to do, but those are the plans for the time ahead and the progress we believe we have made to date. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I appreciate the answer, particularly the statement that we still have more to do. Obviously, we are starting from a point of view of legacy issues as regards pay and conditions.  Has any detailed study been done of the reasons for the discharges? As much as there was an improvement last year, and we hope for a greater improvement as regards recruitment versus discharges this year, we have a significant journey still to go. Then it is a matter of, on the basis of where we are at the minute, through forecasting, when we think we will have the numbers within the Defence Forces that we require even in relation to LOA 2.  The T\u00e1naiste mentioned earlier the national security framework. How exactly will it operate in relation to the cybersecurity framework? When will we have some sort of detail as to how that will look? I am always curious as to how the National Cyber Security Centre fits in with the piece of work the Defence Forces have to do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I am always conscious when speaking to this that people who are not friends of Ireland look in on these proceedings, so as regards national cybersecurity, let all of those who look in be aware that we have cybersecurity structures in place. We have an excellent National Cyber Security Centre. As Deputy Heneghan reminded us earlier, however, there is so much we need to do in this space. The Government will consider, through its national security strategy, the overall infrastructure and ecosystem, as I think Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa's colleague referred to it earlier. That is due later this year.  I do not have - I certainly do not have in front of me - an overall breakdown of the rationale or reasons behind people's discharges. What I can tell the Deputy from the paperwork on this that comes across my desk is that the reasons tend to be varied. His question has provoked a thought in my mind. I will ask - I would be happy to share with him the response - if there are three or four big issues and if there is anything we can glean further from that. I have asked the Chief of Staff and the Defence Forces to prepare for when I bring the updated implementation plan on the Commission on the Defence Forces to the Cabinet later this year, the roadmap as to how to get to the establishment figure we require for LOA 2. I think this year the test will be whether we can get to the 800 inductions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I would appreciate it if that information could be shared. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 165 taken with Question No. 157. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 166 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence Forces"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_44","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Official Engagements","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_44","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_44.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  My question is about Private Se\u00e1n Rooney. The T\u00e1naiste put in the public domain the fact that he was having engagements in Lebanon and that he was dissatisfied. The family and the rest of us all want to see justice. We have not seen that progress. I believe the T\u00e1naiste and the Government are dissatisfied. How did the engagement go there? Has he any update on the post-incident internal inquiry? I think there is a bit of time still to run on that. I ask particularly about the engagement with the UN from the point of view of ensuring that the information would be provided as was required by the coroner. I think there was an initial discussion on a framework, but we also want that information to be supplied to the family. I believe the family are also looking to travel to Lebanon. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I propose to take Questions Nos. 167, 182 and 203 together.  Let me first, as we always do when we speak about this, extend our deepest sympathies to the family of the late Private Se\u00e1n Rooney and thank him for his service. None of us can fathom the unimaginable pain and grief of his family. I want them to know that we think of them and are motivated every day by getting them truth and justice in relation to what happened to Private Rooney.  On the UN question specifically, on 6 August last year the coroner wrote to the UN requesting access to two reports on investigations that were carried out by the UN on 14 December 2022. The coroner has requested in her correspondence that the UN become an interested party for the purpose of the inquest, and my understanding is that the UN responded to the coroner's question in early March. We continue to apply absolute pressure and clarity of thought to the fact that Private Rooney deserves justice and that those responsible for his death must be brought to justice.  During my meetings in my recent visit to Lebanon I raised in the strongest possible terms our deep frustration at the slow pace of proceedings before the Lebanese military tribunal concerning those charged with Private Rooney's killing. I made clear the lack of progress is causing enormous distress, particularly to the family of Private Rooney. We remain in close contact with the Lebanese authorities and his family. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Will the information be supplied to the families? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I will engage on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Callaghan  My question is also about Private Se\u00e1n Rooney. As the T\u00e1naiste knows, I have a special interest in the Middle East and in peacekeeping as a former UN peacekeeper. I travelled that road from Tibnin to Beirut Airport as Private Se\u00e1n Rooney did. Can the T\u00e1naiste provide us with an update on his recent trip to Lebanon? He outlined it to Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa, but if he has something else to add, I would be very grateful to hear it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank the Deputy for her own service and the unique insight she brings to debates in this House having served in Lebanon with our Defence Forces. I very much welcome the opportunity to update the House on my recent visit to Lebanon. A central focus of that visit on 26 March was on my meetings with the Lebanese Ministers for foreign affairs and defence. At those meetings, my first with both individuals, I left the Ministers in no doubt with regard to the absolute determination of the Government to ensure those responsible for Private Rooney\u2019s death are brought to justice. During my meetings with both Ministers, I raised in the strongest terms our deep frustration at the slow pace of proceedings before the Lebanese military tribunal concerning those charged with Private Rooney's killing. I made it clear the lack of progress is causing enormous distress, particularly for the family of Private Rooney. We are mindful of the independence of Lebanon's judicial system but I reiterated that it is essential to see real movement and real accountability given the delays in the trial to date. I also noted the postponement of the most recent hearing of the trial on 12 February, with the next one not scheduled until 17 September.  The Lebanese Ministers acknowledged the seriousness of the case and assured me of the commitment of the new Lebanese Government in bringing the perpetrators to justice. They also took the opportunity to express their condolences to the family of Private Rooney and to Ireland and their appreciation for Ireland's long-standing commitment to peacekeeping through UNIFIL. I conveyed to both Ministers our strong sense of frustration and I also formally handed over a letter to the Lebanese Minister for foreign affairs further underlining the importance of seeing urgent and concrete progress on this issue.  While I was in Lebanon, I was delighted and honoured to see the men and women serving there, to see how they serve with absolute distinction, to see Camp Shamrock and to see a contingent that has spent so much of their time over there in bunkers. At that stage they had been there for approximately five months and the equivalent of one month had been spent in bunkers, just to give a sense of the volatility of the region. I was very pleased to see when I was there, though, that those serving there were back out on patrols and that the situation, while it can always change, was a little bit more stable. I know many of the personnel have served with distinction. They were beginning to think about coming home as well and looking forward to reuniting with family. I was honoured to be in Renmore Barracks for the review of our troops before the 126th Battalion heads off in the coming days. I take the opportunity again to thank everyone who has served with the UNIFIL mission. I thank all the men and women of \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann, including the Deputy, for their service. We should be very proud as a country of the great contribution our peacekeepers have made around the world and particularly in Lebanon. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar  www.oireachtas.ie  . "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Official Engagements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_45","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021: Motion","counts":{"speechCount":28,"speakerCount":8},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_45","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann resolves that the period of operation of sections 1 to 7 and 9 of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 (No. 14 of 2021) be extended for a period of 6 months, beginning on the 1st day of June, 2025 and ending on the 30th day of November, 2025.  Five years ago, we were all caught up in the events that arose from Covid. It had a remarkable impact, not just on the lives of Irish people but also in terms of the way business was done throughout the country. It also impacted the way business was done in this House. I do not look back on that time with any great enjoyment. It was a difficult time for the Irish people. It was also a difficult time for Members of the Oireachtas.  It will be recalled, however, that during that pandemic significant legislation was introduced by this House to respond to the real challenges faced. One group that faced enormous challenges were those in the hospitality sector. Owners saw their businesses closed overnight. The pandemic had very serious consequences for them in terms of profits and just in terms of keeping their businesses going. Fortunately, though, the State entered into the equation and provided significant and worthwhile supports that kept many of those businesses going. A year after Covid was identified, significant and decent efforts were made to try to get businesses back to normal and everyone's lives back to normal. One of the mechanisms by which we dealt with that effort was the enactment in these Houses of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021. It allowed the hospitality sector to continue to provide the sale and supply of intoxicating liquor in outdoor seating areas.  The pandemic meant that much of the legislation enacted at that time contained what were referred to as sunset clauses. They were included because no one in this House or outside it knew when the pandemic was going to come to an end and when we would be able to revert to ordinary life. As a result, it was decided that the clauses could be renewed every six months by the Houses of the Oireachtas. As Members will be aware, those resolutions were effected and carried by both Houses of the Oireachtas in November 2021, May 2022, November 2022, May 2023, November 2023, May 2024 and October 2024. I am here again seeking to have an extension to this sunset clause for another six months so the hospitality sector can continue to enjoy the benefits of outdoor hospitality. I hope this will be the last time that I or indeed any other Minister for Justice has to seek a resolution extending the sunset clause. It is probably the case that this will be the final or the penultimate extension sought by a Minister for Justice because earlier this week I secured leave from the Government to introduce and publish the general scheme of a criminal justice miscellaneous provisions Bill 2025. It will contain a provision that will in effect make permanent the provision we are seeking to renew here for another six months.  I am asking that this measure be rolled over for another six months because it will be to the benefit of the hospitality sector. It will also be to the benefit of people who engage and go to restaurants or pubs and want to sit outside having drinks or food. It has transformed very many of our towns and cities. It has been a positive development. It is not often we get great weather in Ireland, but in fairness to the Irish people when we do get good weather we prefer to socialise outside, particularly if we are enjoying a libation or some food. It is also important from the perspective of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na that its members know what is happening outdoors in terms of hospitality is lawful. This is why the renewed resolution is important as well. The Government considers it to be in the public interest to provide for the sale or supply of intoxicating liquor in certain circumstances in seating areas located outside licensed premises. It allows licensees of such premises to conduct business and to operate in these outdoor seating areas. It is important to extend this operational period for another six months so the hospitality sector and the Garda will have certainty. This is what I am here to seek. I am asking for the support of the House to roll over this resolution for another six months. As I said, I hope this will be the last time I am here. It is dependent on me getting the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill 2025 enacted by November. I cannot guarantee that but I hope it will be the case. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  As the Minister said, the motion seeks to extend the provision for the consumption of alcohol in relevant outdoor seating as provided for in the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act for another six months until the end of November. The Act introduced changes in the law to allow for the sale and consumption of alcohol in relevant outdoor seating areas where those outdoor seating areas had been permitted by the local authorities on public land or were on private land next to the licensed premises.  While Sinn F\u00e9in supports the extension of this legislation, there is something dysfunctional about the fact that five years on from the start of the Covid pandemic we are dealing with extending a provision of an Act that was effectively emergency legislation brought in during the pandemic. The simple fact is that the Government should have regularised the position in respect of outdoor seating areas on a permanent basis long before now. I know it has been indicated that this will be done but there is no good reason for it to have taken so long.  These provisions are good for the hospitality sector and should be supported. We have witnessed how outdoor seating in hospitality can breathe life into many streets and town centres. That is a positive thing without question, although we also have to be cognisant of other businesses in areas. It also gives us a glimpse of what might be possible if we do more to revitalise urban communities, rural towns and villages. The approach to this issue should not be taken in isolation. We need a wider plan for how we make villages, towns and cities better places to live, work and to visit; how we support a vibrant hospitality sector; how we ensure that villages, towns and cities are safer and more welcoming places; how we invest in public spaces and amenities; how we help small local businesses to get started and to thrive; how we ensure there are proper public services, including access to GP services, good public transport and enough garda\u00ed; and how we ensure that towns have amenities like swimming pools and youth clubs.  Unfortunately, the policies of successive Governments have hollowed out our villages, rural towns and city centres. This week I held a public meeting in my home town of Carrickmacross to allow local people air their concerns about community safety and other issues. Despite being invited, An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, council executive staff and other political representatives from other parties failed to take the opportunity to come to listen and respond to those concerns. Like many towns, Carrickmacross has been a great town and continues to have businesses and local community organisations doing their best to make the town the best possible place to live, work and raise a family. The town has some unique challenges but it also faces issues that are familiar to many areas. Local services have closed down. Local authorities have been underfunded. The abolition of the town council was one of the most stupid and counterproductive political decisions in modern times. Businesses have closed under the pressure of rising operating costs, including energy and insurance costs, and little or nothing has been done to address those rising costs. Small local shops have gone too, replaced sometimes by large supermarkets on the edges of towns. We had the closure of Bose, a significant employer in our area, and in 2019 to much fanfare, the then Minister for enterprise cut a ribbon and claimed credit for 60 new jobs that would come to that Bose site. Those jobs never came, and subsequent Ministers have hidden from any accountability since. We learned this week that factory is up for sale again. Some of the most prominent buildings in our town centre lie idle. There was a time when any good sized local town had a cinema, theatre and hotels. People lived in the centre of the town above shops, some family businesses thrived for generations and people knew their local garda\u00ed. This is no longer the case. It is crucial that our towns do not shut and just become departed after 6 p.m. In addition to ensuring people can actually live in our towns and villages, it means supporting a vibrant night-time economy. For this to work, people need to feel safe going into our towns and cities at night. That will not be the case unless we have enough garda\u00ed to police our streets and ensure there is a visible Garda presence.  Dereliction simply should not be tolerated nor should slum landlords. They damage the fabric of our towns and villages. Sinn F\u00e9in has been raising this for a long time. It should not be tolerated at any time but it certainly should not be tolerated in the middle of a housing crisis. If the Government values our communities and those people who hold them together, who coach our children's sports teams, who run our youth clubs, who organise local festivals, who are part of Tidy Towns committees, who care for the elderly and isolated, then Government must support them by investing in local facilities and amenities. People should not have to fight and campaign for basic amenities such as recreational or sports facilities and safe town centres. It is time for proper investment and rejuvenation of towns and villages. That includes investment in public spaces, tackling dereliction and ensuring proper services and facilities are in place. What that means for Carrickmacross and towns like it is supporting businesses that bring vibrancy and commercial activity back to the urban centres. In our town and lots of others we have too many vape shops and mobile phone repair shops. What we need is a proper mix of amenity and businesses in our town centres. They need support for that to happen.  There is a serious problem. If, for example, a local business team wants to bring a night club or another activity to a vacant business in Carrickmacross or a similar town, it will receive no support. It will probably receive blockages from the official system. However, if it decides to turn that same building into an IPAS centre, it will secure a substantial State funding package. That is not fair on anyone involved, except the beneficiary who is making a profit. That approach has to end. It is time to revitalise our town centres. That means more garda\u00ed, more amenities, more support for local businesses and less for those that do not have the interests of the community at the core of what they do. That is the message coming from Carrickmacross and all over Ireland. It is time that the Government heeded that message. It is time to invest in our town centres. This legislation is a small part of all that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  We will of course support this. It is kind of ridiculous that we are back here every six months, so hopefully it will be the last time. The Minister has committed to it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I did not guarantee it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  I know. He committed to it, but he kind of did not commit to it. He might commit to whether he is committing to it. Seriously, it has to be done because this is kind of ridiculous. To the public, outdoor seating and socialising is the norm now. We maybe need to slightly improve it because people have adapted. It is one of the few things resulting from Covid, where there was a positive, long-term consequence. There were of course other issues, such as work and so on. It was an outdoor consequence. In some towns around Ireland, it was actually transformative, in a positive way that would never have happened otherwise. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  It was great. There were some changes in my local town of Nenagh, which were positive, and I implored the council to do other works that were complementary, which was great. I hope we will not end up here again and that the miscellaneous provisions Bill being brought forward will deal with this and regularise the whole situation, so we do not have to be coming in here talking about the obvious every six months. I know my former colleague, Brendan Howlin, used to love coming in here every six months when he was spokesperson talking about this and about the fact that there were 650,000 people out on the streets of Wexford during fleadhs and stuff. This really has to be regularised.  While we have outdoor seating, it is important that those who operate in the hospitality industry have guidance from the Minister on the proliferation of non-alcoholic branded beers, which is a good thing. I spoke about this recently. Publicans and people working in the industry are selling non-alcoholic beers to adults with no issue. However, there are well-known alcoholic brands with a non-alcoholic version that is being sold to adults who are giving it to children. I asked the Minister a parliamentary question on this, and his response was: \"The prohibition does not apply to alcohol free alternatives.\" We know who the brands are so I will not mention them and give them promotion, but in zero-branded beer there is a tiny trace of alcohol. That is the first issue. The second issue is for those working in the industry. If this is allowed to happen, and a person walks in and orders two pints of the alcoholic version and one pint of the non-alcoholic version, there are indistinguishable once they are laid on the table or the counter. It is impossible. The person or people working there cannot then distinguish if the person under 18 is drinking the alcoholic or the non-alcoholic version. This is a significant issue. It is unfair on workers and on licensees. In a way, it is an unintended consequence.  My biggest issue with non-alcoholic versions of well-known branded alcoholic drinks is their cost. As a State, we need to examine how we can bring that down and how that can be encouraged. It is ridiculous. I can go down the street from this Chamber and it might cost \u20ac7 for a pint, which is ridiculous for a pint in the first place, but it will cost \u20ac6 or \u20ac6.50 for the non-alcoholic version of it. In my local pub the pint is \u20ac5.50 or less, which is still expensive.  However, to have to pay \u20ac6.50 for a non-alcoholic version of the same drink and try to encourage people to drive and be the designated driver or just not drink alcohol is absolutely ridiculous. What does need some guidance, however, is whether publicans and those working in hospitality in bars, restaurants and hotels should serve non-alcoholic branded beer to adults who are going to give it to people aged under 18. I do not necessarily think the Government can legislate for this. Guidance is needed here because people have been left in difficult scenarios where they did not know what the right thing to do was in this----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  What is the relevance to this debate? That is all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  The relevance to this is that a lot of these drinks----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  They are outside. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  -----are served outside, and do you know what? It is as relevant as Carrickmacross was. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  It is just to note. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  The issue is that we need to give some guidance because workers are left in a situation where they do not know. There could be scenarios where minors end up drinking alcohol, either accidentally or deliberately because of this. The vintners, in fairness, have come out and said they should not be served. They said under-18s should not be served and that adults who order it for them should not be served either. They should not be served the non-alcoholic version. Therefore, some guidance on this from the Minister's Department with regard to how the legislation will work in spirit would be really helpful to those who are obviously serving quite a considerable amount of this in outdoor settings. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I welcome the extension of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act and I will support it. However, we need to be honest here. This legislation has been extended multiple times and we must move beyond temporary measures. It is time to make it permanent. I sat on the Dublin City Council at the same time as the Minister, and to think then that we would be in the D\u00e1il discussing benches. This should be an issue for councils. We have all seen the positive impact that outdoor dining has had on our city. Capel Street stands as a testament to what can be achieved when we open our public spaces to people. What was once known as a transit route has been made more vibrant, energetic and inviting. There is no question that outdoor dining has played a vital role in that transformation. We can have the kind of outdoor culture we associate with many other cities, if not the weather.  This legislation enjoys broad support across the Chamber and across the city because it speaks to something simple and human: the right for people to gather, congregate, sit down and just enjoy each others' company over food and a drink. This legislation has broad support for that purpose but we must go further. Let us use this as an opportunity to have a conversation about what can make our city streets more welcoming, more inclusive and safer. What else can we do to create a city that truly belongs to the people who use it? There needs to be more recognition that the design of our cities and streets can bring people together or push them apart. The recent spell of good weather has brought into sharp relief just how few free, accessible public spaces there are for people to gather and enjoy free of charge. We have all seen the scenes on Drury Street, packed with people and with a gorgeous atmosphere, but one that is ultimately unsustainable. Business owners should not be placed in the impossible situation of asking people to not sit down outside their premises. That responsibility cannot lay with people who are simply trying to keep their doors open. We have placed a burden on commercial spaces to act as substitutes for public ones. We are a city with no shortage of derelict sites, vacant lands and underused laneways. What is lacking is imagination and the political will to take these spaces and reimagine them as part of a shared civic life. It would take just a fraction of imagination and investment to reimagine derelict of vacant sites as vibrant public hubs - places where people can sit, rest, meet and enjoy the city without having to spend money. I think about places in my own area like Talbot Street and O'Connell Street if they only had dedicated public seating and community spaces. Initially, eyes would roll, and people would say they are not safe. I do not agree for a second. I believe public infrastructure adds to the sense of safety within a community. We should not be allowing people to just exist in a city without needing to pay for the privilege and the benefit for local businesses would come from it too. This is not an either-or situation. We can support our hospitality sector and invest in public realm improvements at the same time. Both those things go hand in hand. Thriving cities across Europe understand this. When people are put first alongside commerce and community, they can flourish together.  Coming back to the legislation, however, we can support our hospitality sector. I will vote for the extension but let us not pretend this is a long-term solution. The fact that we keep continuing to renew what has clearly become essential city infrastructure is frankly a waste of legislative time and energy and resources that should be directed towards other crises and sectors across the country. Let us just make it permanent. Let us give local authorities the clarity they need, businesses the confidence to invest and communities the certainty that this transformation of public spaces is not just fleeting or conditional, but here to stay.  Finally, I echo and strongly support the points raised previously by my former colleague, Catherine Murphy, when she talked about accessibility in legislation and the broader public space agenda it supports that must work for everyone. We have heard multiple reports of wheelchair users and people with mobility challenges being blocked from footpaths by poorly placed furniture, signs and sandwich boards. That is not acceptable; it should not be acceptable. If we are talking about making our city more inclusive, that must include everybody regardless of mobility. That means proper regulations, proper enforcement and commitment to universal design in that public realm. Let us, therefore, be ambitious and intentional. When I speak about legislation such as this that deals with the public realm, my mind always goes to the city I love and operate in every day. However, let us imagine we were talking about some broader, bigger concepts. My eyes rolled into the back of my head a couple of weeks ago when I heard Fine Gael councillors and Ministers having a back and forth about whether we should have a tourist tax in this city; of course we should. We should be looking at how we generate revenues for a city not just like Dublin but like Galway and others. These are the conversations that would be substantial in this area. For the moment, however, I support the relevance of this legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  This discussion is centred on extending certain provisions of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act. This extension aims to allow the hospitality sector to continue providing outdoor seating areas for the sale and consumption of alcohol. Independent Ireland and I are in full agreement with this extension.  This is crucial for offering clarity and certainty to business, patrons, local authorities and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. As a politician, business owners speak to me on a daily basis about the costs of doing business in Ireland. They constantly ask me when the VAT rate will be reduced to make it somewhat easier to keep their doors open.  The Restaurants Association of Ireland, RAI, expressed significant concerns about the current state of the restaurant industry. It recently highlighted that 150 restaurants closed in the first quarter of 2025 due to soaring business costs. The RAI warns that more closures could follow if these financial pressures continue. The association is actively lobbying for changes in regulation and legislation to support the industry. It emphasises the need for Government action to prioritise tourism and hospitality, which are vital to the economy.  The association has put forward several key proposals to support the restaurant industry. Some of these proposals include decoupling VAT rates, separating the VAT rate for food services from accommodation and advocating for a reduced VAT rate for a food service while maintaining the current rate for accommodation. It emphasises the need for greater support for hospitality apprenticeships to ensure skilled workers and a five-year strategy for developing a comprehensive strategy to boost food and drink tourism in Ireland. These proposals aim to address the financial challenges facing the industry and ensure its long-term sustainability.  While we are talking about seating outside businesses, I fully support this legislation going through but I have serious concerns that businesses are being rated for having seating and tables outside, mainly for the few months of the summer season. This is another kick in the teeth for businesses that are struggling at this present time. Business owners in my community have told me that they are being rated. These businesses we are talking about are paying rates already, electricity----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Deputy might keep to the Department. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  However, it is all about seating, and the rates for seating are coming----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  That is what I mean; it is not this Minister's Department. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I know that, and I respect that, but I am only talking about the importance of having it there. The fact is that they now have it, but they are being punished for having it there by being rated. It is difficult for these business. In a few months, they are trying to turn over a profit and make enough to keep staff on board. These businesses are paying for rates, electricity, staff, VAT, PRSI, PAYE, telephones, Internet, purchase of stock, refuse, upkeep of buildings, maybe rent or a mortgage, and then they also have the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, and rightly so, keeping a very close eye and making sure they have everything right across the board. The whole point I am making is that, yes, this is very welcome, but I am afraid that, unfortunately, local authorities are taking advantage of this and seeing an opportunity to squeeze more money out of businesses that are already squeezed to within an inch of their lives. I was in west Cork last weekend at a fantastic fundraiser in The Fish Basket in Long Strand and there were maybe thousands of people there.  Fantastic food was laid out there and in other outdoor businesses in Ballydehob, Bantry, Bandon, Clonakilty and Kinsale but they certainly are feeling the pinch. I know that and while it is greatly welcome to have this extension on seating areas outside, legislation needs to be put in place to protect businesses so that they are not being fleeced by having seating outside their door. We must support them. They need supports at this time because the VAT rate is still at 13.5%, although it was promised that it might drop back down to 9%. They need an assurance that is going to happen. That will help in that area. It is a huge issue that needs to be addressed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  I welcome the proposal which has been a positive introduction for many businesses in the hospitality sector. However, like the previous Deputy, I would like to raise issues around local authorities rating outdoor seating. It is very unfair on businesses, particularly in the hospitality sector, which have been hammered in recent years. The increased cost of doing business has resulted in margins tightening and a reduction in tourist numbers. We need to seriously address issues in the hospitality sector before more businesses go to the wall. I held a number of constituency clinics in Mayo recently. Almost before I sat down, business people were my first constituents and what did they talk about? The VAT. It is crippling----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Again, Deputy, can you----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  This is a----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  He is the Minister for Justice. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  Yes, but he is at Cabinet. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  You must stick to the subject of the debate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  He has an important seat at Cabinet. I understand he is the Minister for Justice but he is at Cabinet and this is a significant issue. It is going to hurt many businesses across Mayo if it is not addressed. I welcome the proposal around the outdoor seating and its extension. It is a common sense, practical solution but placing rates on new facilities or new seating is not acceptable. I ask the Minister to consider working with the local authorities on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  As the Minister said at the outset, this is just repeat legislation that is renewed every six months. As others have said, primary legislation could have been enacted some time ago but I am glad the Minister is living up to his reputation as being a hands-on Minister so far and is moving on this. It is something that most people would very much welcome but I always include the caveat that we have a toxic relationship with alcohol in this country. Having alcohol in a context where one can sit down, have a chat and have something to eat is the appropriate way to do it. Covid led to some people drinking at home and we should be trying to encourage people back into the pubs, back out having a bit of grub and socialising with each other again. Something like this, out on the streets, is very welcome in this country, even though it is going to be raining half of the time. I support what Deputy Lawless said in relation to not overly oppressing the vintners and restaurants on this issue. Maybe there should be a licence to have outdoor seating at certain times of the year but it should not be included in the rates. We should then look at longer hours at night time, something that was touted about 20 years ago. I support the continuation of these provisions and I hope we get proper legislation in due course. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I thank all Deputies for their contributions. There is general agreement in the House that outdoor seating is a good development from the point of view of the hospitality sector and the people who go to pubs and restaurants and like to sit outside. It is also fairly clear that there is broad recognition, including from myself, that the process by which we renew this for six months needs to come to an end at some stage through permanent legislation. That is why, I repeat, I am pleased to say that I got approval from Government earlier this week to introduce a miscellaneous provisions Bill, the civil law aspect of which will put on a permanent basis the entitlement of the hospitality sector to have seating outdoors. Once this is extended today it will mean that the practice remains lawful until 30 November of this year. I hope to have the legislation that makes it permanent, the miscellaneous provisions Bill, enacted by that date. I cannot give a guarantee but I hope to have it enacted by then. As Members will be aware, there are all sorts of barriers, obstacles and requirements that have to be gone through in order for legislation to be introduced in the House and then to get through it.  I have listened very carefully to what Deputies had to say. I have no objection to Deputies raising peripheral issues. Indeed, there seems to be great expertise in the House in terms of the raising of peripheral issues. Deputy Carthy raised the issue of towns and villages in Ireland. He specifically referred to Carrickmacross and I want him to know that I am aware of that issue. I have spoken to my colleagues, the Minister of State, Deputy Niamh Smyth, and Senator Robbie Gallagher and this morning I spoke to Councillor P.J. O'Hanlon in respect of it. I have discussed the matter with the chief superintendent in charge. I am aware that there is going to be an increased Garda presence. We also need to start looking at more use of CCTV cameras in our towns and villages. If it is the case, as the Deputy said, that individuals are renting out properties that are not habitable or do not comply with regulations, the local authority needs to enforce the law and ensure that they are brought before the courts. I want Deputy Carthy to be aware that I am aware of that issue and have acted in respect of it.  Deputy Kelly, as well as expressing his support for the proposed renewal of this legislation, also referred to the issue of children consuming non-alcoholic beer on licensed premises. The answer I gave him is technically the correct answer, which is that the prohibition does not apply to non-alcoholic beverages. However, being practical and as a parent, I would suggest that it is not really appropriate to be bringing children into pubs and then buying them non-alcoholic beer. We have a problem in this country with underage drinking. I do not know how this is categorised in terms of underage drinking of non-alcoholic beer in pubs. However, childhood is very short and we should try to protect children from a life of going to pubs and getting acquainted with drinking non-alcoholic drinks at a time when they should not be in pubs. There is a benefit to non-alcoholic beers. They have transformed the drinking market. They have helped a lot of people who may have drink problems to be able to continue to socialise, to go out socially and drink non-alcoholic beer.  I also listened to Deputy Gannon and agree that there have been great developments in respect of this area. He is right about Capel Street and the same applies in respect of South William Street and Drury Street. It has transformed not just Dublin city but other cities and towns. They have become much better as a result of people, including young people, out socialising in those towns and cities during the summer months. Dublin and other cities are great places for people to grow up and socialise in and we should facilitate that.  I also listened very carefully to Deputies Collins and Lawless, both of whom raised the issue of making outdoor seating rateable. They also referred to the issue of VAT for restaurants. While both are significant issues, they are not issues to which I can respond or resolve but I note the comments of the Deputies.  Finally, Deputy Gogarty referred to the relationship that Irish people have with alcohol. It is certainly the case, unfortunately, that some people in Ireland have a toxic relationship with alcohol. We need to develop a more mature relationship with it and that is something that is increasing. In the context of the resolution that is going to be renewed, there is an opportunity for us to recognise that sunset clauses do have a particular benefit at times. The reason there was a sunset clause in the legislation was in order to ensure that we could see how things progressed over time. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021: Motion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_46","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Parental Choice in Education: Motion [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":28,"speakerCount":23},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_46","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:  notes that:  \u2014 more than 90 per cent of Irish primary schools are under religious patronage, while only 5 per cent are multi-denominational;  \u2014 a survey by the Irish National Teachers' Organisation found that just 4 per cent of teachers think preparing students for sacraments should be the responsibility of primary schools, while more than two fifths believe that faith formation should not take place at all during school hours;  \u2014 the Programme for Government: Our Shared Future of the 33rd D\u00e1il, contained a target of at least 400 multi-denominational primary schools by 2030, \"to improve parental choice\";  \u2014 in reality, there are approximately just 170 such schools, with only 20 changing from a religious to a multi-denominational ethos over the past decade; and  \u2014 \"Securing Ireland's Future\", the current Programme for Government, contains no target at all on multi-denominational schools;  further notes that:  \u2014 the previous Government had committed to holding a Citizens' Assembly on the future of education; and  \u2014 the current Government has downgraded this commitment and has pledged to hold a \"national convention\";  regrets that:  \u2014 despite successive Governments stated commitments to educational pluralism, the vast majority of schools remain under religious patronage, even as demand for multi-denominational options grows;  \u2014 the Government's Schools Reconfiguration for Diversity process lacks transparency, ambition, and community empowerment;  \u2014 patronage divestment is stalling due to poor community engagement, lack of clarity in the process, and no obligation on patrons to cooperate; and  \u2014 schools wishing to reconfigure face financial disincentives and logistical hurdles, creating systemic inertia;  recognises that:  \u2014 these ongoing delays directly undermine parental choice and the constitutional right to freedom of religion; and  \u2014 without decisive action, the goal of a pluralistic, inclusive education system will remain aspirational; and  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 reinstate the abandoned commitment to have 400 multi-denominational schools by 2030;  \u2014 adopt a policy that all new schools are opened under non-religious patronage;  \u2014 remove \"faith formation\" from the school day, with it to take place outside of school hours in line with the families beliefs;  \u2014 create a clear and independent mechanism for patronage change, via the establishment of a statutory framework for changing school patronage, with independent oversight to avoid conflicts of interest by existing patrons;  \u2014 repeal section 37.1 of the Employment Equality Act 1998, so teachers cannot face religious discrimination; and  \u2014 establish a Citizens' Assembly to make recommendations on the future of the education system, including how it might better reflect and serve a more modern, inclusive and diverse Ireland.  This motion speaks to the heart of our republic's promise of the right of every child to have an inclusive, respectful and equitable education. As a mother of four, an educator and someone who has dedicated her life to education equity, I bring forward this motion not just as a legislator but as someone who has witnessed at first hand the transformative power of inclusive education. I am speaking on behalf of many parents who are desperately seeking a multidenominational school for their child.  This is not the first time that Ireland has tried to have a multidenominational education system. Over 200 years ago, the Fourteenth Report from the Commissioners of the Board of Education in 1812 wanted to develop a national school system for children that would be free from even the suspicion of proselytising. The Stanley letter of 1831 is not just an historic document; it still underpins our national school system almost 200 years later. Schools would be established to unite in one system children of different creeds because at that time, denominational and political tensions were high. Children would receive four or five days of literary and moral instruction. On the remaining one or two days per week, there would be separate religious instruction given by clergy of respective persuasions, which could take place either before or after ordinary school hours. Unfortunately, the churches opposed a mixed denominational system and by approximately mid-century, the national school system had become a denominational system.  The Constitution was enacted in 1937. Article 42.1 states that the State \"acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children\". Article 42.4 states that \"the State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative ... with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation\".  The involvement of parents in education was strengthened in 1975 when parents were included on the boards of management of schools for the first time. At that time, two sets of parents were starting campaigns. In 1978, a group of parents in Dalkey, County Dublin, managed to get a multidenominational school opened - the Dalkey School Project. That school celebrated its 50th anniversary this year. This movement grew into what we now know as Educate Together.  At the same time, parents were battling to have their children educated through the Irish language. They established naonra\u00ed for young children and gaelscoileanna for primary school children. This movement grew into An Foras P\u00e1tr\u00fanachta, which is the patron body for Irish-medium schools that may be multidenominational, interdenominational or denominational.  In 2006, another type of multidenominational school emerged, namely, the community national schools. The first of these schools opened in 2008. These schools are managed by the education and training boards.  In 2011, the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector was launched to begin to respond to the need for appropriate forms of primary school patronage for Ireland\u2019s increasingly diverse society. There were four findings, of which three are relevant today. These are: divesting patronage in areas with stable populations; enhancing inclusivity in all schools; and that there should be curriculum and policy reforms. Yet here we are in 2025, more than a decade later, and these recommendations do not appear to be moving at any speed. There are only about 170 multidenominational schools today. This is a very far distance from where the Government is trying to get. Over 94.5% of our primary schools remain under religious patronage while only 5.5% are multidenominational. This imbalance does not reflect the rich diversity of beliefs and backgrounds in modern Ireland.  This motion calls on the Government to do some very simple things that would have a significant impact on the education landscape. The first is to reinstate the commitment in the programme for Government in 2020 that called for 400 multidenominational schools. This seemed to have disappeared in the programme for Government 2024. Parental choice is a constitutional right and this must be upheld. The glacial pace of change means the Government will fall well short of meeting this target. This is bearing in mind that 400 multidenominational schools will not address the massive demand for school places every year. A total of 60% of parents who were polled said they would prefer to send their children to a multidenominational school, as opposed to 10% who would prefer religious schools, yet 94.5% of schools are religious.  Although no new primary schools have opened in recent years, the Social Democrats are asking that any new primary State-funded school opened should be multidenominational to provide parents with real choice - exactly what is at the heart of this motion. There is no need to open any more religious schools; there are enough of them.  The removal of rule 68 for primary schools was a positive one. It was a rule that saw religion as being the most important part of school. It saw that religious education and spirit permeated every part of the school day. A further step would be to remove faith formation in school time. This would mean that those who want sacramental preparation would do it outside school time and it would be the responsibility of parents and their respective religious bodies to organise this. In 2025, it is absolutely not acceptable that any child is excluded from part of the school day because they are not participating in faith formation. A recent survey by the Irish National Teachers Organisation found that just 4% of teachers believe that preparing students for sacraments should be the responsibility of primary schools. More than two-fifths of them believe that faith formation should not take place at all during school hours. The removal of religious discrimination is important to ensure that no child is an outsider.  The Government's schools reconfiguration for diversity process lacks transparency, ambition and community empowerment. Patronage divestment is stalling due to poor community engagement, lack of clarity in the process and no obligation on patrons to co-operate. Schools wishing to reconfigure face financial disincentives and logistical hurdles, creating systemic inertia.  No worker should be discriminated against on the basis of their religion or lack of religion. Teachers and education staff currently face religious discrimination because they are not protected under section 37 of the Employment Equality Act. This needs to end. There is no excuse for this in 2025. We must also remove the need for student teachers to have to do a religious certificate to teach in State-funded schools. This is divisive.  The Government need to establish a citizen\u2019s assembly, which is the gold standard for discussing topics that are complex and multifaceted. A convention, which is what is being offered, is not what we are looking for. We are looking for a full citizens' assembly.  To recap, simply put, the Social Democrats are looking for the Government to reinstate the abandoned commitment to have 400 multidenominational schools by 2030, to adopt a policy that all new schools are opened under non-religious patronage, to remove faith formation from the school day with it to take place outside of school hours in line with families' beliefs, to create a clear and independent mechanism for patronage change via the establishment of a statutory framework for changing school patronage with independent oversight to avoid conflicts of interest by existing patrons, to amend the Employment Equality Act and to establish a citizens' assembly to make recommendations on the future of the education system, including how it might better reflect and serve a more modern, inclusive, and diverse Ireland.  Every child deserves a school that respects their family's beliefs. It is time to make education in Ireland truly inclusive. I urge all Members of this House to support this motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I thank Deputy Jen Cummins for the great work she has put into this. I oppose the Government's amendment, which is so disappointing given that these are really practical and strong recommendations that we believe can bring to life the parental choice we are all seeking in the education system.  This is a rights issue for me. I was in Geneva in 2016 in my previous work in the human rights space at the examination of Ireland under the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. In between sessions, one gets a chance to talk to the committee members. The jaws of these experts were literally on the ground when they heard about the figures for school patronage in this country - that there was so little choice for people who simply did not wish to have education provided to their children in a Catholic setting. This is something I have carried with me into this role.  My constituency of Dublin Rathdown has nearly 3,000 children in multidenominational primary schools out of a total of 13,500, which is nearly 20%. For comparison, about 1,500 are taught through Irish, which is about 10%. That choice level is way above the national average and yet still I receive constant calls from parents who are so frustrated that they cannot find an educational setting that matches with their values, ideologies and choices. I will talk about my personal experience in this regard. When I raised my daughter as a single parent, I came to second-level education choices with two clear asks. I wanted her to remain in a coeducational setting, which she had enjoyed in primary school, and I wanted her to enjoy multidenominational or interdenominational education. We are both atheists.  I had two options available, one fee-paying and one non-fee-paying. We applied for both, but it did not look like we were going to be accepted to the non-fee-paying option so we signed up for the fee-paying option. We bought uniforms, picked subjects and planned everything. Three weeks before the start of school, my daughter was accepted to the non-fee-paying school. That changed our lives. It was the reason I was able to leave the corporate sector. As a single mum who was paying a mortgage, the crippling fees I was expected to pay to one of the highest fee-paying schools in the country would have meant I was unable to leave that job and pursue what I wanted, which was public service and human rights and equality work. Parents and children should not have to lobby and campaign for schools that meet their needs and provide that choice.  Le fada t\u00e1 an Roinn Oideachais tar \u00e9is an dualgas a chur ar thuismitheoir\u00ed a chruth\u00fa go bhfuil \u00e9ileamh do scoileanna l\u00e1n-Ghaeilge agus troid ar son oideachas d\u00e1 bp\u00e1ist\u00ed. Is c\u00fais d\u00edom\u00e1 \u00e9 dom go bhfuil an dualgas c\u00e9anna \u00e1 chur ar thuismitheoir\u00ed at\u00e1 ag iarraidh oideachas neamhchreidmheach  We have a clear target to meet of 400 multidenominational and interdenominational schools by 2030. We are behind, but it is not too late. Parents and children should be free to seek an education which aligns with their values. That must become a reality for parents and children who do not want religious education in school. As my story shows, and as is the case for many parents up and down the country, having choices opens up lives to new possibilities and options. They must be real choices. We cannot limit those options through a lack of availability, means or action from those making educational policy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  Every family in Ireland has the right to have their children educated in a school where they feel included regardless of their family's culture, background or beliefs. We have a situation whereby many families have no choice but to send their child to a school which does not align with their beliefs. Through the leadership of my colleague, Deputy Cummins, the Social Democrats are bringing forward proposals that would uphold the right to an inclusive education for all children in this country that is consistent with the beliefs of the child's family.  Polling of parents from across the country has shown that our current patronage system does not meet the needs of much of the population. Some 60% of parents would prefer to send their children to a multidenominational school. Only 10% prefer religious schools, yet 90% of schools remain under religious patronage. Throughout the country, parents have extremely limited choice in where they send their children. This is particularly true in rural areas and in my own constituency of Cork East, where, for example, we have only two Educate Together national schools and no secondary schools. We also have Carrigtwohill Community National School, which is multidenominational. This leaves many families in east and north Cork, of different religions and none, with no choice but to send their children to a Christian school to ensure they have a school place. In Cork East, we urgently need the Government to prioritise the growth of nondenominational schools, as we do throughout the country.  I also raise the long-standing issue of classroom space, which significantly impacts the students, teachers and special needs assistants, SNAs, of Fermoy Educate Together National School. The school has been in regular contact with the Department of Education since at least 2021 highlighting these concerns. The building has major space restrictions that have placed a cap on the school's growth when the demand in the area for school places is far exceeding the school's capacity. Two of its four classrooms are considerably smaller than the size the Department's guidelines recommend. One class is only 24 sq. m and another is 33 sq. m. The Department's recommended size is 80 sq. m. The school is being forced to use hallways to accommodate extra classes for children with learning difficulties. It has not been sanctioned an autism class because it does not have the required space. The school has identified, with the Department of Education, room upstairs in its building that could be converted into two appropriately sized classrooms. This situation cannot continue and the Department needs to intervene.  Fermoy and its surrounding area has a significant demand for nondenominational school places and autism classes. I ask the Minister, and the property management section within his Department, to meet representatives of Fermoy Educate Together National School to resolve this issue as a matter of urgency.  The Social Democrats today bring forward a motion that would help to achieve a more modern and equality-based educational system, and I hope the Government will support us in those aims. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I unreservedly support the motion and thank Deputy Cummins for bringing it forward. I want to say clearly that the current system is failing to reflect the Ireland of today. In 2021, I stood in this Chamber and said the Government was paying lip service to the idea of a truly inclusive education system, flagging that there was no clear roadmap to providing 400 multidenominational primary schools by 2030. Four years on, the facts show that little has changed except that the gap between political promises and reality has grown even wider.  We know the figures. Over 90% of primary schools are still under religious patronage. Just 5% are multidenominational. There are just 170 multidenominational primary schools in the country despite a programme for Government commitment in 2020 to deliver 400 by 2030. That target has since quietly disappeared. Let us be honest with ourselves: we are nowhere near where we need to be and the current approach simply is not working.  We are a modern, pluralist and diverse Republic, yet our educational system is operating like it is still 1955. Families today, many of whom no longer identify with any religion, are forced to baptise their children just to access the local school. Teachers still face the threat of discrimination under section 37 of the Employment Equality Act simply for being LGBT in their own workplace. Students are being taught relationship and sexuality education through the lens of religious ethos, where puberty is described as a gift from God and same-sex relationships are either ignored or treated as lesser. That is not an evidence-based, modern, inclusive, progressive education and has no place in schools funded by the Irish taxpayer.  In 2021, I introduced a Bill to guarantee fact-based inclusive relationships and sex education for every student in every school regardless of its ethos. That Bill came in response to, among other things, the disgraceful Flourish programme developed by the Irish Catholic Bishops' Conference. The programme suggested, among other things, that the church's view of marriage between a man and a woman must not be omitted. That is not objective or inclusive, and simply should not be acceptable.  We were told that change would come, the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment was working on it and the Government was serious. Here we are in 2025 and we are all asking similar questions again. This motion presents a pathway forward, which is welcome. We must reinstate the target of 400 multidenominational schools by 2030 and publish a roadmap to get there. We must remove faith formation from the school day, respecting the constitutional right to freedom of religion and freedom from religion, if one so wishes. We must have independent mechanisms for school patronage change and with proper oversight and transparency. We must finally repeal section 37(1) so no teacher is ever again made to hide who they are for fear of losing their job. Crucially, we must have a citizens' assembly on the future of education. This is about more than school buildings and patronage models. It is about what kind of society we want. We want one where schools are places of learning and not places of exclusion, and where children of every background and belief can feel like they belong. We cannot keep deferring this conversation. We cannot continue outsourcing the values of our Republic to institutions that do not represent the entirety of its people.  Change is not only overdue but is demanded by the families and teachers in the communities we serve. Let us be clear that parental choice is not about pitting religions against one another. It is about recognising that one belief system should not dominate our public education system, especially not one that excludes, shames and adds silence. This motion is a call for courage, leadership and progress. I support it wholeheartedly and urge the Government to match its words with meaningful, immediate action. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Education and Youth (Deputy Helen McEntee)  I move amendment No. 1:  To delete all words after \"Dail \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:  \"notes that:  \u2014 the Government recognises the importance of parental choice; and  \u2014 the Government is committed to seeking to increase choice for parents by ensuring that families can access both multi\/non-denominational and faith-based education, in line with the Programme for Government commitment;  further notes that:  \u2014 enrolments in mainstream multi-denominational and inter-denominational primary schools rose by 87.5 per cent (from 23,721 to 44,476) over the 10-year period from 2013\/14 to 2023\/24;  \u2014 there are 172 primary schools with a multi-denominational or inter-denominational ethos (2024\/25 school year), this includes 32 multi-denominational primary schools which transferred patronage and\/or changed ethos to multi-denominational and schools established under the patronage divesting process;  \u2014 51 of the 52 new primary schools established to cater for increased demographic demand since 2011 have a multi-denominational ethos;  \u2014 the Programme for Government, includes a commitment to 'increase choice for parents by ensuring that families can access both multi\/non-denominational and faith-based education';  \u2014 as part of delivering on the Programme for Government commitment, the Minister for Education and Youth has indicated that she intends to launch an online school specific survey of parents and school communities on what type of education they would like to see for their child and their school;  \u2014 in tandem with the proposed survey, the Department of Education and Youth will be providing clear information for parents and guardians to enable them to make an informed decision in relation to the different types of primary school patronage options;  \u2014 denominational schools have played an important role in primary education in Ireland for over a century, and they, along with other primary schools, have a strong history of inclusivity in serving their local communities and accept children of all faiths and none;  \u2014 under the Constitution, the provisions of article 44 recognise the rights of children to attend school without attending religious instruction at that school, the Education Act 1998 also provides that a school shall not require a student to attend instruction in any subject which is contrary to the conscience of the parent\/guardian of the student or in the case of a student who has reached the age of 18 years, the student;  \u2014 for historical reasons, most primary schools are State-aided parish schools, with the local Bishop as patron;  \u2014 it is recognised, including by the Catholic patrons, that more diverse provision is required to cater for our changing society;  \u2014 the Schools Reconfiguration for Diversity process has been developed in order to accelerate the delivery of multi-denominational schools, and this process supports transfers of schools to multi-denominational patrons, in response to the wishes of local communities;  \u2014 when a school transfers from the patronage of one patron to another, the school remains open with the same roll number, operating from the same school property and with the same school staff and pupils;  \u2014 all State-funded primary schools follow a common national curriculum and are subject to the same Department rules and regulations;  \u2014 the Programme for Government commits to holding a convention bringing together all stakeholders in education; and  \u2014 nationally, at post-primary level, 48.6 per cent of students are enrolled in multi-denominational or inter-denominational schools, 47.6 per cent are enrolled in schools with a Catholic ethos and 2.9 per cent are enrolled in schools with a Church of Ireland ethos, and the remaining 0.9 per cent is accounted for by post-primary schools with an ethos other than Catholic, Church of Ireland, inter-denominational or multi-denominational; and  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 take any necessary steps to ensure that patronage transfers are facilitated, where parents and school communities support this;  \u2014 establish the level of parental demand for the primary school their children attend now or will attend in the future to change to a multi-denominational ethos by commencing the planned survey of primary school communities;  \u2014 continue to progress the reconfiguration process, with the goal of establishing a strong process, that has the support of patrons and local communities, and which will enable us to continue to increase the number of multi-denominational primary schools across the country;  \u2014 ensure that the Department of Education and Youth continues to engage with key stakeholders on the reconfiguration process; and  \u2014 continue to support school communities when schools are transferring patronage.\".  I thank the Social Democrats for tabling the motion and enabling this important debate. It is important that the issue of parental choice and multidenominational primary school provision is discussed. I understand the issues that are being raised in the Private Members' motion tonight.  School communities are reflective of the rich and diverse society in which we live. Parents decide on the school to which they will send their children for a wide variety of reasons and, of course, ethos can be an important factor, if not the main factor for some. Currently, 88.3% of primary schools have a Catholic ethos. Catholic patrons have indicated they are supportive of an educational landscape which will reflect the reality of the increasingly diverse society in our country. Of the remaining 11.7% of primary schools, 6.2% have a religious ethos other than Catholic, mainly Church of Ireland. These schools are catering for minority faith communities and add to the diversity of the primary school landscape. The remaining 5.5% of primary schools have a multidenominational or interdenominational ethos. Multidenominational schools provide choice for parents. They provide primary schools which are under the patronage of non-religious patrons to allow children to learn about all faiths and belief systems through a multidenominational programme.  In our programme for Government, we clearly commit to seeking to increase choice for parents by ensuring families can access multidenominational, nondenominational and faith-based education. This work is a priority for me and the Government. As Minister and as a parent whose children will attend school in the coming years, I recognise the importance of increasing choice for parents when it comes to the education of their children. The number of children attending multidenominational schools has increased, albeit not as quickly as people might have liked, from just under 24,000 to over 44,000 students in the past decade, while 51 of the 52 new primary schools established to cater for increased demographic demand since 2011 have had a multidenominational ethos. There are currently 172 mainstream primary schools with a multidenominational or interdenominational ethos out of the total of 3,082 schools. A number of counties have no multidenominational schools and many others have only one option available for parents. For me, this certainly does not equate to choice for parents. Society has changed and continues to change. It is important that we reflect on what those changes mean for the education system. For example, just over half of people getting married now do so in a religious setting. While this is not a direct proxy for what type of school parents may wish to send their children to, it requires us to discuss and consider the type of school provision we have and how we meet parents' expectations and demands of us as policymakers. It is important we understand what demand actually exists and, crucially, what parents want for their children, which will allow me and all of us working together to plan accordingly. It is recognised, including by Catholic patrons, that we need more diverse provision to cater for that changing society and meet the expectations parents have for themselves and their children.  The schools reconfiguration for diversity process has been developed in order to support the transition or transfer of schools to multidenominational patrons in response to the wishes of local communities. When a school transfers from one patronage to another, it remains open, has the same roll number and operates from the same property with the same staff and pupils. All State-funded primary schools follow a common national curriculum and are subject to the same departmental rules and regulations.  While progress has been slow, it is important to say that progress has been made towards increasing the number of multidenominational primary schools, with the number of multidenominational or interdenominational schools increasing by 65 in recent years. This has been driven by two factors, namely the opening of new multidenominational schools in response to demographic needs and the reconfiguration of schools from a denominational ethos to a multidenominational ethos in response to parental choice. The opportunities for the establishment of new multidenominational primary schools have declined. Demographic trends and projections at primary school level nationally have peaked, so the focus has to be on maximising the use of the existing school estate. That means transferring from one patronage to another. The school reconfiguration for diversity process allows us to do that. It is designed to maximise the use of the existing school estate, as it involves the transfer of patronage of existing schools. Any changes in this area should be done hand in hand with parents and school communities. In that regard, I intend to publish a framework and action plan on multidenominational education shortly.  In order to make progress, it is important to know what the demand is. That is why central to the plan is a survey of primary school communities. The survey will give my Department a greater picture of parental preference to enable it to plan into the future. It will ask parents or guardians of children in primary school or of children who will start primary school in the coming years for their preferences on important aspects of school provision and choice, including the future patronage and ethos of their school.  As well as parents, the voice of teachers and staff is important in this conversation. We have heard, and it is referenced in the memo, that the INTO did a survey recently and the results of that were clear. It is important that a separate survey will be made available to staff and boards of management. I will announce details of the survey, the framework and the action plan in the coming weeks. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of parental preference in any conversation regarding patronage. The Government and I will support the transfer of patrons of schools where this is supported by the school community. We can pick a figure of 400 but most important is whether there is a lower or higher demand and where that demand is, as well as how we identify that and how we go out to those communities, say it is clear there is a demand, engage with the school and the patrons and get involved in the process that is already there and has worked for other schools. If that is what people want, we will bring about that change. If the survey shows in certain areas there is not a demand or requirement, then I do not think it is for any of us to make that change or force it on anybody. It is important we get the survey right and everybody supports it and encourages people to take part in it because the better the picture we have and the more people engage in the survey within a community, the easier it is for us to make those choices.  Denominational schools, including Catholic schools, have played an important role in primary education in Ireland for over a century. Along with other primary schools, there is a strong history of inclusivity and of serving their local communities, accepting children of all faiths and none. I can attest to that from looking at the local community schools and primary schools in my area. They have been welcoming to students with special educational needs and those who suffer from educational disadvantage. That is down to the leaders in the schools, the teachers, the management bodies and all the staff. That is clearly reflected across the thousands of schools in this country. Article 44 of the Constitution recognises the right of children to attend school without attending religious instruction at that school. It is expected that this right will be upheld by schools on foot of a parental request. The Education (Admissions to School) Act 2018 requires that where schools provide religious instruction, they must clearly set out in their admissions policies arrangements for students where the parent has requested that the student attend the school without attending religious instruction.  On the education convention, the programme for Government sets out clearly that we will hold a convention bringing together all the stakeholders in education. The last conversation of this kind happened about 30 years ago. It was a hugely inclusive conversation and resulted in many of the agencies and bodies that now support our schools being established. It was an important step at that time but I want to go beyond that and have a larger conversation on education that will include school communities, the wider public and all the voices of stakeholders in education. The convention will deliver that and I intend to launch this early in the new school year later this year.  As we speak today, let us remember that just over 900,000 children and young people are in 4,000 schools being taught by 70,000 teachers, special needs assistants, special education teachers and many more. They are looked after by school secretaries and caretakers and many are looked after by special needs assistants. That is close to 1 million people involved directly in our schools. They have friends, families, grandparents and neighbours. Hardly a day goes by where a group of people are not talking about a school, preschool, college, university or apprenticeship. Education matters to every person in this room and in this country and it matters to our nation's social and economic well-being and progress. As we enter our second century of independence, it is only proper that we give all of our citizens a chance to talk about education for themselves and to be involved in this, not just now but for those who come after us as well. That is why I believe the convention will reflect the Ireland of today, incorporate all of those different views and make sure everybody, particularly children, have a say in what education looks like in the future.  I consider progress has been made but I accept and fully support the need for greater change and increased parental choice in education. Increased options need to be made available in order that a greater number of parents can choose the patronage at primary level that suits them and their children. Key to this work is the survey and I look forward to working with colleagues and school communities across the country to make sure we get a clear picture of what parents want, where the need is and how we take the information, because information is key, and we provide choices in the places where they are required. I look forward to working with colleagues as we start this progress in the coming weeks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I am sharing time with a couple of colleagues. I thank my colleague, Jen Cummins, for all her work on this motion. I also acknowledge the huge work done by parents across the country who are campaigning to get an education without religious instruction for their child. Parents should not have to campaign to get the basics for their child. I thank the Minister for attending and for her contribution. She said parents choose the school they send their child to but, of course, many parents cannot choose the school for their child. I meet parents all the time in my constituency who wanted to send their child to a school without religious instruction but did not have that option. Numerous parents who are atheists have to send their children to religious schools. Then they are left with an impossible choice as to whether they remove their child from religious instruction.  They are sitting at the back of the room and are excluded. What parent wants to have their child excluded or to have to go through religious instruction that is completely contrary to the parent's values and beliefs? I have been talking to parents in my constituency who say their child comes home having been taught things in religious instruction that they absolutely do not agree with. That is very distressing for parents and is not what they should be put through, given their belief systems. I have massive respect for people of all religions and people of no religion. This is about ensuring that parents, families and children who do not want to receive religious instruction are not put through that and are not denied their rights.  The Minister said she has no targets. The previous Government had targets that it was nowhere near to meeting. The reason the Minister has no targets is that she wants to find out information, find out what the picture is and then act on it. Unfortunately, this is what has been said for years, with Government after Government saying they need to do surveys and find out what the picture is. At least the last Government had some level of targets. If there are no targets in an area and no level of ambition, then we have no ability to measure progress or hold to account the Minister and the Department regarding progress.  The education system in Ireland today should reflect the Ireland of today. That is what this motion is about. There have been huge changes in Ireland since many of us went to school but that is not reflected in our education system or in the choices that parents and their children can make. In my constituency, one of the things that parents point out to me is that there are areas with higher house prices that have a level of choice in terms of schools and denominations, but in areas with more average or lower house prices, given many families cannot afford the areas with higher house prices, they do not have the same choices. People are being put at a disadvantage due to their economic status regarding where they can send their children to school, which is relevant to their religious education. Of course, this leads to children having to travel further to a school that meets their family\u2019s values. In terms of building communities, that does not work for reasons including traffic congestion and segregation.  I have talked to many teachers in my constituency who feel deeply uncomfortable that they are forced to teach religious instruction they do not believe to children whose parents do not believe in it. They really want that hypocrisy to end. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I thank Deputy Cummins for her work on the motion and also over many years on this issue and wider education issues. The pace of change is far too slow. We heard during the week in the audiovisual room from a parent who said, \u201cI wonder if I am doing this for my children or my grandchildren.\u201d That is how frustrated parents are about the pace of change. Across County Cork, there are 350 Catholic schools but only 13 multidenominational schools. There is no real choice or option for parents when there is that level of difference and that lack of choice.  I fully support the removal of faith formation from the school day. I was talking to a teacher who said that communion and confirmation erode teaching time and take up a huge amount of the school day. I think back to my own time in school and the hours spent on things like confession and going to mass. As somebody who is not religious, I sat there thinking this was such a waste of precious school time that could have been used for English, maths or learning other things. It should be done outside of the school day if that is the choice of parents and young people.  With regard to the allocation of time, I was talking to a primary school teacher at the weekend who said that at present, the school is spending two and a half hours a week on religious education, an hour on PE and only half an hour on SPHE. A disproportionate amount of time is being allocated. I know that this is subject to change and that there is a new framework. However, even under that new framework, for first and second class, the patrons\u2019 programme is going to get eight hours a month, which in most schools is religious education, whereas science only gets four, so science education is only getting half the time that we are allocating to the religious programme. There are huge issues with regard to the amount of time that is being allocated. We also know that this religious ethos filters through the whole day and it is not just the teaching time. Part of that goes back to the education of teachers. Most teacher education has a very strong religious ethos and there is an issue to look at there as well.  One area I care about is that of relationships and sex education. I had members of BeLonG To in Leinster House yesterday and they were talking about some of the research they have done. It was very worrying. They conducted a survey of primary school teachers in 2024 and found that two in five felt the school's ethos had impacted on LGBT inclusivity, and one and four said they never teach SPHE or RSE in an LGBT-inclusive way. That is one in four teachers not including a portion of students in their education, and that stems back to the religious ethos and the lack of knowledge among teachers. We need to see real change in that regard. It will be good to see the convention happen and, hopefully, we will get some change. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I thank Deputy Cummins for her work on this motion and I also thank the Minister for being present and engaging with the debate. This is a very important motion. Some 60% of Irish parents have expressed a preference for multidenominational schools and it is broadly acknowledged as the way forward in education. When we consider the level of oversubscription for Educate Together schools, the demand for this education is undeniable. These parents have a right to choose an education for their children that aligns with their values.  In my own constituency of Dublin North-West, there is just one Educate Together secondary school, Clonturk Community College. My son attended that school. I remember queueing up to try to get a place in the school and remember that some parents had to queue overnight to get a place. It is a wonderful school, with dedicated staff, yet they are stuck in unsuitable temporary facilities and need a new school building. In the wider area, there are three primary schools, the North Dublin National School Project in my own constituency and Grace Park and Glasnevin Educate Together national schools. Parents from all over Dublin North-West send their children to these primary schools yet they have only one option for a secondary school, Clonturk Community College, which I mentioned.  The barriers to accessing multidenominational education are numerous and real. This motion is about changing that. It highlights that the programme for Government in the last D\u00e1il contained a target of at least 400 multidenominational primary schools by 2030 to improve parental choice, yet the current programme for Government contains no target for multidenominational schools. It appears that the previous Government\u2019s commitment to multidenominational schools and parental choice in education has been written out of the new programme for Government.  It is also important to acknowledge and highlight that with new housing developments and the planning for that, in particular in the national planning framework, there is a need for schools to be developed alongside housing. It is a major issue that where we have housing development, we are not seeing schools being invested in and provided for along with that. In particular, if there is new State funding for schools, it should be on a nondenominational or multidenominational basis. Parents need to have that education provided for them. The Government is doing these parents and children an injustice by not providing access to the multidenominational education they want. What the Social Democrats are putting forward today is an opportunity for the Government to right the wrong, correct the exclusion of multidenominational education from the programme for Government and acknowledge this is what parents and families want for the education of their children. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We move to Sinn F\u00e9in. I call Deputy O'Rourke. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I wish to share time with colleagues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Is that agreed? Agreed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I thank the Social Democrats for bringing forward this motion. Sinn F\u00e9in has a long-standing policy on choice and diversification within our education system. We reaffirmed that position in our 2024 general election manifesto and I do so again now. Children have a right to an education in a school that matches their and their family\u2019s values.  Sinn F\u00e9in firmly believes in the provision of high-quality inclusive education for all, which includes a range of school patronage models. Currently, over 90% of Irish primary schools operate under religious patronage while, at the same time, access to multidenominational schools remains extremely inadequate. Previous commitments to deliver 400 multidenominational schools by 2030 were a step in the right direction but progress has been glacial and the current programme for Government drops that target altogether.  This in and of itself is very concerning. In my opinion it does not in any way reflect a lack of interest or demand from parents and communities. The opposite is the case. Instead, it reflects a failure of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael to prioritise the needs of parents and children seeking alternative educational environments. It is clear that the current situation created by the Government and its lack of political will towards this matter undermines parental choice. Therefore, we call on the Government to recommit to the target of 400 multidenominational schools by 2030.  We acknowledge the Government's intention to conduct a survey on parental preferences regarding school ethos. However, we urge the Minister to expedite this process and ensure its findings are acted upon swiftly. Furthermore, we believe the Government must address the systemic issues hindering patronage investment. The lack of transparency, community engagement and clear mechanisms for the change are unacceptable. Schools wishing to reconfigure should not face financial disincentives or logistical hurdles. The survey must happen soon. The Government's countermotion and parliamentary replies to me on the matter do not inspire confidence in this regard. We need concrete commitments and timelines. The survey must be confidential and it must be comprehensive. When the survey is ready to go, it must be accompanied by an information campaign for parents and school communities.  We need movement in this regard because it is clear the school reconfiguration for diversity process has failed. A tiny number of schools have been transferred from religious to multidenominational patronage since 2013. The reconfiguration process as it stands lacks ambition. It lacks transparency and it lacks any real power to compel change. Patron bodies have no obligation to co-operate and communities and parents are left in the dark. The Minister should establish a clear process for school patronage change and it needs to be adequately resourced. I do not see the need for a large budget for this but there is a definite need for financial support to help with the transition.  Equality in education means that all students should have the same opportunity to succeed. This includes equal access to resources, fair treatment and a supportive environment. It is not right, fair or proper that children are left to feel isolated or excluded when faith formation or sacrament preparation is going on, for example in a Catholic school when a child is not Catholic. I say this as my party's spokesperson on education and as a father whose children are Catholic and attend a Catholic school. It is not fair that their friends are hived off into a corner during the school day. I understand there are constraints, challenges and conveniences for some in the existing system, and speaking for myself, we have to look at the system as a whole as a public service for the public good and at treating children fairly.  I thank the Social Democrats for bringing forward this motion. I have to say the Minister's countermotion is completely lacking in ambition or impetus. For this reason, Sinn F\u00e9in will not be supporting it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I thank the Social Democrat Deputies for tabling the motion this afternoon and giving us a chance to have this discussion. Similar to Deputy O'Rourke, as well as being a parliamentarian I am a parent. It is a long time since I had a child in primary school but in order for her to be able to attend an Educate Together school I had to fight very hard simply to get her a place. This is the experience of parents who want a choice outside of the Roman Catholic model. Not everybody wants their kids in such a school. Even people who are Roman Catholic are quite happy to have their kids get their religious instruction at home. It is a private matter and that is possibly the best place for it.  For any parent who does not wish their children to participate in what we might call the older or more established model of schooling, it is always a battle. The Minister knows this herself from her constituency. It is always a battle. It is always a fight. People always feel they have to fight the system simply for the opportunity for their children to be able to attend the primary school of their choice and, having attended the primary school of their choice, to be able to attend the secondary school of their choice. This is something that is a constant source of amazement to me as there is nothing more certain on the day a child starts primary school than that the child in all likelihood will need a secondary school. If their parents have chosen nondenominational or multidenominational education for them at the age of five we do not need to be at genius to figure out it is unlikely to change by the time the child reaches the age of 13. Therefore, a similar type of education will be wanted for secondary school. Multidenominational or nondenominational education is not just a primary school thing; it is also a secondary school thing.  I want to raise with the Minister an issue of concern in my constituency. In Skerries we have an Educate Together primary school, and there is also one in Rush and Lusk. There is no Educate Together secondary school in either of these places, unfortunately. This means parents have to ensure their kids can get to school. I have corresponded with the Department on this and I have submitted parliamentary questions. I am told that eligibility for the school transport scheme will have regard to ethos and language. To be frank with the Minister, it does not seem to have regard to the ethos when it is one of a non-religious nature. This is something that needs to be looked at urgently. In the response from the Department there was mention of a number of pilots in operation. I would like to know when they will conclude and when we will know what the outcome is. More importantly, I urge the Minister to take a look at the criteria to ensure that parents who want their children to continue in the education system they started in primary school can do so. They should have the right to continue it through secondary school. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor D. McGuinness  Education is the foundation of any progressive society. It shapes our children's futures, reflects our values and must adapt to the needs of a changing Ireland. For too long our education system has failed to keep pace with the diversity of modern Ireland. We need real diversity in school patronage which respects freedom of religion and finally puts parents and children at the heart of our education system. The facts speak for themselves. More than 90% of our primary schools remain under religious patronage and only 5% are multidenominational. Meanwhile a recent INTO survey found that only 4% of teachers believe sacramental preparation should be the role of the schools.  I speak today as the parent of children attending a Catholic school. I am very happy with the school, and with the patronage and ethos, but this is not to say there should not be choice for families and parents. Despite these realities the Government has downgraded its commitment, replacing action with a vague national convention. Worse still, patronage divestment has stalled, not because of a lack of demand from parents and school communities but because of poor engagement, unclear processes and no obligation on patrons to co-operate. This is an attack on parental choice and the constitutional right to freedom of religion.  Sinn F\u00e9in has long championed real choice in education. Our 2024 manifesto committed to a new strategy for diversification, supporting multidenominational and Irish-language Gaelscoileanna. When new schools are being created, and we all understand there is a need for new schools in most of our communities, they should be nondenominational by default to provide this diversity. This would ensure no family is forced to send their children into a system or ethos that does not respect their values. We should prioritise Gaelscoileanna. Irish-medium education should be part of this diversification and an important part of this conversation.  Meaningful consultation with parents is needed because communities should decide what is best for their children. The evidence is clear, with 61% of adults preferring multidenominational education compared to just 9% who favour religious-run schools. Teachers themselves demand change. However, the Government refuses to listen to the people who matter the most. This is about equality, choice and respect. No child should feel excluded in their own classroom. No parent should be forced to send their child to a school that does not align with their beliefs. I thank the Social Democrats for bringing this issue to the fore and forcing this debate in the House. I will support the motion and oppose the Government's countermotion, which rips the heart out of the proposal we are here to discuss. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  I am glad to have an opportunity to speak on this motion. Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis na Daonlathaithe S\u00f3isialta as ucht an r\u00fan seo a chur faoi bhr\u00e1id na D\u00e1la inniu.  Multidenominational and nondenominational schools reflect our increasingly diverse population. Their purpose is to ensure every child feels they belong when they walk through the gates of their local school. Year on year I hear from parents in north Kildare who want to send their children to multidenominational and nondenominational schools. Others want to have the choice of sending their child to a school that is not dominated by a particular religious ethos.  Naas Community College and North Kildare Educate Together School in Celbridge, among many others, are shining examples of this. Only today, I heard that we have a waiting list of more than 20 children for Maynooth Community College, another multidenominational school in north Kildare. Such schools are increasingly popular and with school places at a premium, we have to build the schools so that they are available to the children who need them.  N\u00ed hamh\u00e1in sin, ach Gaelscoileanna chomh maith. T\u00e1 n\u00edos m\u00f3 tuismitheoir\u00ed ag iarraidh a bp\u00e1ist\u00ed a chur go Gaelscoil. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 de cheart ag p\u00e1ist\u00ed oideachas a fh\u00e1il tr\u00ed Ghaeilge. Gaelchol\u00e1iste Mhaigh Nuad, which is both a multidenominational school and a Gaelchol\u00e1iste, demonstrates how we can support children from all religious backgrounds and increase the number of daily Irish speakers in the country. However, this school needs a permanent building now. If the Minister is checking up on her parliamentary questions, she will see I have raised many parliamentary questions on this matter over the past few years.  Parents of children with additional needs are also crying out for appropriate school places for their children. I look forward to meeting members of the Kildare SEN Action Group tonight, with an Teachta Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh, to see how we can help them in securing proper, adequate and resourced spaces for children with additional needs in Kildare. Their struggle highlights the complete failure of the Government to provide educational rights for all the children of the State. The Government needs to get serious about education for all our children.  I will be supporting the Social Democrats' motion. I congratulate Deputy Cummins on her first motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ann Graves  The education of our young people is hugely important. We need to ensure it is carried out in a supportive and inclusive environment.  Sinn F\u00e9in has a long-standing policy on choice and diversification in education. In our manifesto in 2024, we committed to developing a new strategy to support existing and emerging demands for diversification of patronage in school. This includes State co-education, multidenominational and community schools based on the provision of high-quality and inclusive education.  The Government has said it will conduct a survey of parents on their preferred ethos for schools. In a recent response, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, indicated she intends to launch a survey of primary school communities shortly and that further details regarding the survey would be announced in due course. We need to know the details. We need a timeline for when this will happen. It needs to be rolled out as a matter of urgency.  The Government has not delivered on previous commitments. The Minister must ensure adequate availability for students seeking to attend a multidenominational or non-denominational school. Engaging with parents, staff and pupils has to be a priority. The results of a recent INTO survey show that our education system must evolve to reflect Ireland's diversity and multiculturalism.  Teachers urge the Government to speed up the divestment process and to actively invest in the growth of inclusive schools. The Government must immediately expand the number of non-denominational and multidenominational schools to reach its previous target of having 400 such schools by 2030. It is deeply concerning to parents that this target was dropped from the 2025 programme for Government. We need to see some real progress.  The Government should improve the pilot programme intended to facilitate the transfer of school patronage in cities, including Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick. There must be greater engagement with stakeholders and the community. The process relating to divestment must be established to retain the confidence of all stakeholders.  Students must also have the right to be educated through Gaeilge. It is hugely important that the Government provide full access to education through the medium of Irish. I applaud the Sord Mullach \u00cdde Gaelscoil campaign. It is striving to provide education through Irish in Fingal east, Swords and Malahide. At present, we have four Gaelscoileanna but we have no me\u00e1nscoil for the children to progress to. Children have to commute outside of the area to attend secondary school in Irish and the school transport system does not pay for them to do so. The Minister needs to look at progression from Gaelscoileanna into me\u00e1nscoileanna. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Teachta Cummins for bringing this motion to the D\u00e1il. It is a topic I hold dear to my heart.  In my personal experience with my own children, I had little choice when I lived in Belfast prior to the Good Friday Agreement. I sent my children to the local Catholic school, particularly for protection at that time, given what was going on and the attacks on schools. It was for safety purposes. When I returned to Dublin with my young family, I wanted a more diverse education for my children. A group of us parents went about setting up the Griffith Barracks multidenominational educational setting. It involved a lot of hard work and some novel actions being taken by parents who just wanted a different approach. I shout out to them. I am very proud of that school, which has grown enormously. There is a great sense of safety in the school and a great sense of creativity.  In my party's manifesto in 2024, we commited to developing a strategy to support existing and emerging demands for increased diversification of patronage in schools. The Government's 2020 programme for Government committed to having 400 non-denominational and multidenominational schools by the end of the decade but this commitment is curiously missing from the 2025 programme. The Government is out of step with our communities in this respect. I am disappointed by the proposed amendment, which dilutes everything.  Yesterday, Deputy Jen Cummins presented a session with Educate Together, which has opened 50 multidenominational schools since 2013. No new Educate Together schools are planned, however, despite extremely high demand. In Dublin South-Central, the constituency I share with Deputy Cummins, the Educate Dublin 8 group has been working towards the objective of establishing a new secondary school in Dublin which is inclusive and multidenominational. However, due to lack of availability in the area, nearly half the children in the area are taking a bus out of their area to ten schools elsewhere. They need a school in their own community.  A survey by the Yellow Flag Programme found that a quarter of post-primary students feel their ethnic or cultural identity is not reflected in the classroom. Multidenominational schools can help address the deficiency of inclusivity. The Ombudsman for Children, Dr. Niall Muldoon, for whom I have a great respect, stated, \"Having children and young people driving inclusion ... is the secret of changing society over the long term.\"  The Minister has said she intends to launch a survey of primary school communities shortly on parents' preference regarding the ethos of schools. We cannot afford to delay this any longer. It must be undertaken immediately in order to implement desperately needed changes for the children of Ireland.  I will be voting for Deputy Cummins's and the Social Democrats' motion and against the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  I thank Deputy Cummins and the Social Democrats for bringing forward this important motion. They have a long track record in this area.  From a Labour Party perspective, I wholeheartedly welcome this motion. It addresses an issue that was close to the heart of our former education spokesperson, Aodh\u00e1n \u00d3 R\u00edord\u00e1in, who very much championed it in a cold place when his was a lone voice calling for greater divestment of school patronage in this country.  Before I talk to the frustrations, and the motion presents the frustrations felt by many parents very well, it is important to state that there has been some progress in some parts of the country, particularly in my constituency of Dublin Central where, in recent years, two new Educate Together schools were established on the border between Dublin North-West and Dublin Central, Grace Park Educate Together National School and Dublin 7 Educate Together National School. We have a new Gaelscoil, Scoil \u00c1ine, under the patronage of An Foras P\u00e1tr\u00fanachta. We have a ground-breaking secondary school, a product of a collaboration between Educate Together and the education and training board, in Clonturk Community College, of which I was proud to be a board member. It is important to note that that took a long time and the leadership of a small number of fierce parents. But for their tenacity and persistence - I am thinking of Anne Phelan and others - we would not have that school today. Cabra Community College, which is a different type of school, also came out of a grassroots campaign in 2019, of which I was part.  This was a small number of parents who were utterly dismayed at the lack of co-educational secondary school offerings within Dublin 7. They wanted a co-educational school that was also multidenominational, if possible. Cabra Community College had a very long and proud tradition in Cabra but had very small numbers. We ultimately saw this school transformed into the school it is today. The numbers coming in are growing and the ETB and Educate Together are in an effective partnership to grow the school. There has been some progress but it is critical to understand and acknowledge that there is great frustration in many parts of this city of Dublin and right across the country.  When talking about choice in the context of education, we have typically associated it with the call for divestment and more multidenominational education but it is important to say we should also consider choice in the context of co-educational education, an teanga Gaeilge in the context of bun\u00fa Gaelscoileanna agus Gaelchol\u00e1ist\u00ed, and children with additional needs. There are children across this country who should be in reading schools, who are in the first percentile and who are eligible for such schools but who are being told by the Department of Education that they need to remain within mainstream schools. A number of parents have come to me to say they believe their child would thrive in a special reading school but is being denied that choice. My colleague, Deputy George Lawlor, spoke last week about how there is only one special school in the whole of Wexford. The area of additional needs is very complex. That is why there is an issue in trying to match children to places. However, there is far too little choice with regard to additional needs and ensuring those needs are met.  Maidir leis an teanga Gaeilge, t\u00e1 an t-\u00e1dh againn i mBaile \u00c1tha Cliath L\u00e1ir go bhfuil dh\u00e1 Ghaelchol\u00e1iste, Scoil Chaitr\u00edona agus Col\u00e1iste Mhuire, i mBaile \u00c1tha Cliath 7 agus Baile \u00c1tha Cliath 9 ach is amhlaidh go bhfuil an-\u00e9ileamh ar Ghaelchol\u00e1ist\u00ed nua a bhun\u00fa trasna na t\u00edre, go h\u00e1irithe i Baile \u00c1tha Cliath 6 agus 8 agus in \u00e1iteanna eile trasna na t\u00edre. Taca\u00edonn P\u00e1irt\u00ed an Lucht Oibre leis an bhfeachtas chun n\u00edos m\u00f3 Gaelchol\u00e1ist\u00ed a bhun\u00fa in \u00e1iteanna eile sa t\u00edr because there is now great demand for education tr\u00ed theanga na Gaeilge. Frankly, that demand is not being met across the country.  When talking about choice with regard to denomination, I am very clear that this motion calls for multidenominational education and to effectively take denomination out of the school system. That is a position I wholeheartedly support. In the spirit of a true republic, there should be no denomination within any school and we should have community national schools, as we see in many other countries, where religious instruction takes place outside of school hours. However, under our system and the Constitution as it was set out, the logical conclusion is that choice should allow for denominational, multidenominational and non-denominational education. I think of the parents who have chosen to send their kids to the North Dublin Muslim National School in my constituency of Dublin Central. There is obviously also a whole raft of Catholic schools but there are also Jewish and Protestant schools out there. It is important that they have a voice and a say in this conversation. While much of the conversation has been about divesting Catholic schools, there is no doubt but that minority faiths wish to have a voice in this conversation.  There has been a long-standing call for a citizens' assembly on education. My colleague Aodh\u00e1n \u00d3 R\u00edord\u00e1in spent many years calling on the previous Government to introduce a citizens' assembly on education. However, we now need a convention. I know the programme for Government refers to a convention on education but we need to see something very bold and imaginative. Some 30 years ago, Niamh Bhreathnach established the first convention on education. That was groundbreaking at the time and very significant reforms came out of it. We should go larger than the citizens' assembly model and ensure that all stakeholder voices, the voices of children and youth themselves and the voices of randomly selected members of society are part of that conversation. We need a convention on education but it must be much bolder and more imaginative than anything we have heard the Government propose so far.  We are here because of the enormous frustration of parents. There is also great discomfort on the part of many teachers, as reflected in the INTO survey published this week. The reality is that progress in education has always been painfully slow. I was looking back today and I believe it was in 2012 that the infamous section 37 of the Employment Equality Act was amended. This effectively exempted schools from equality legislation and allowed them to discriminate against LGBT teachers, unmarried parents and divorced teachers on the grounds that they might undermine the ethos of the school. It is just over ten years ago that this appallingly discriminatory legislation was repealed. Progress is tortuously slow in the education space.  I am reminded of the forum on education that ran from 2011 to 2016 and the campaign for divestment that came out of it, which was spearheaded by Ruair\u00ed Quinn. Progress has ultimately been way too slow and insignificant, as we see reflected in the motion. The reason is that most of the power remains with the patrons. The approach the Department of Education has taken to the divestment process has been far too hands-off. For as long as the Department of Education takes that approach to the running of schools in this country, we will not make any progress.  I am reminded of an issue I dealt with in respect of a school in Donegal a number of years ago. A Catholic school wanted to become co-educational. It was as simple as that. The board, the staff and the parents all wanted it but the Bishop of Derry was opposed to it and delayed it for a long period. Section 62(4) of the Education Act makes provision for the board to eventually effectively overrule the patron but the Department of Education provided no support to the school at that time. It is not a widely known part of the Act. The Department needs to take a much more active and robust approach to divestment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  The Social Democrats have tabled a motion in the D\u00e1il that calls for the Government to increase the number of multidenominational schools and to phase out religious patronage in special education. I have listened carefully today to all the reasons we should remove church patronage. There are also those of us who oppose these statements and who argue that religious institutions play a significant role in the community and that their influence should be preserved. Along with many others, I worry that phasing out religious patronage could disrupt existing school structures and community ties. Independent Ireland will stand firmly against this motion and I urge the Minister to consider the numerous benefits religious patronage brings to our schools and communities. Catholic schools and other religious institutions provide an education grounded in strong moral and ethical values. These values, such as respect, compassion, integrity and service to others, are not just taught but woven into the very fabric of the school environment. They help to shape well-rounded individuals who are not only academically proficient, but also morally grounded and socially responsible. Religious schools foster a strong sense of community and belonging for many families. These schools are more than just educational institutions. They are an integral part of their communities' cultural identity.  The shared values and traditions create a supportive environment where students and family feel connected and engaged. Many religious schools are known for their high academic standards and commitment to educational excellence. They often achieve outstanding results, not just because of rigorous curricula but also due to the dedication of teachers who view their work as a vocation. This commitment to excellence benefits all students regardless of their religious backgrounds. Religious education focuses on development of the whole person's mind, body and spirit. This holistic approach nurtures students in a way that prepares them for all aspects of life. It encourages them to be thoughtful, reflective and compassionate individuals who contribute positively to society.  Religious institutions often provide significant financial support to their schools. This can include subsidies, fundraising and donations that help to maintain and improve schools' facilities and programmes. This financial backing ensures that the schools can offer high-quality education while keeping tuition fees affordable for families.  In a diverse society it is crucial to offer parents and students a variety of educational options. Religious schools provide an important choice for families who wish to have their children educated in an environment that aligns with their values and beliefs. Removing this choice would not only limit education diversity but also infringe on the rights of parents to decide the best education path for their children. I talk with experience on many fronts and with a clear understanding. I spent 20 years on a board of management in a Catholic school. I am not ashamed of that and in fact I am very proud of that. I spent ten years as the chairperson of that school board. I never once as chairperson of a board of management in any way shape or form, nor did the principals, ever pick on them and I believe that Deputies here have insulted quite a lot of principals and their teaching in Catholic schools. We have been as fair to children who came in whether they had a religion or did not have religion. They were treated with the respect they should have been treated with. The way some Deputies have spoken in here, mother of God, one would think that the students are getting an awful time altogether in these Catholic schools. They are not. Stop. Stop this nonsense for God's sake.  A total of 93% of schools in this country have a religious patronage. I feel that this motion should not be able to attack the religious. It should be attacking the Department for not funding schools properly. For example, in Dublin recently a school was almost faced with closure. This is happening the length and breadth of the country. I can only talk on behalf of the school where I was chairperson of the board of management. When we were stuck and the Department failed to step in it was the church that stepped in to look after the children's needs and the school's needs. The church stepped in there. That is an incredible situation that nobody wants to acknowledge. Good God we would be afraid to acknowledge that in case we would upset the minority up there. The whole point is that the church is very strong and in some cases it has actually pulled out a cheque for the local parish priest to keep the electricity going in the schools. This is an astonishing situation that the Department should be covering and be looking after, and it is not doing so. We will not support the motion. We will certainly oppose it all the way. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  I wish to start by congratulating the new Pope. I believe there is white smoke in the Vatican. I congratulate the new Pope. It is great news.  I read the motion and I listened to the Social Democrats' contributions. To be honest I am quite surprised. They talk about pluralism and choice but it seems that the only choice they want to provide is the choice of those people who agree with them. There are thousands of families who are happy with the ethos of their school and who support the ethos of their school. Yet the motion seeks to deny parents, principals, teachers, and boards of management the ability to decide the ethos of their school. There is nothing pluralistic about this motion. I believe that pluralism is about inclusion and supporting the diversity in our culture. This is what we should be doing.  On the support for divestment, we believe that parents should have a choice. The choice must acknowledge and must recognise that where parents decide they support the ethos of their school the Social Democrats should not overrule or override that. This is what choice and pluralism actually means. Today's motion seeks to ban new schools in terms of faith patronage and to ban faith instruction. There is nothing pluralistic about that. What other countries in the world have sought to ban education pluralism? North Korea and Cuba. Those countries are not something we should be following. Politicians should never try to enforce their own rules on the public. We should celebrate the differences in our society and allow culture to be supported. I come from a teaching background. All children should be supported and families who wish to have their children in a school that is similar to their ethos should be supported. I am really disappointed that this is not captured in the motion.  Article 42 of the Constitution states that parents are the primary educators for their child. In that sense I do support the Minister's contribution earlier today around the survey that would seek to acknowledge that and support this in the education system. It is curious that the Social Democrats advocate for the removal of faith because of its perceived lack of evidence and yet they have no problem supporting a gender ideology in schools and puberty blockers, which have no basis in education at all.  The Minister referred earlier to a recent survey from the INTO at the conference. It stated that 60% of teachers voted against removing faith in education in our schools. They did so because parents actually do not support its removal. This is the case in many schools, I am not saying all. That is our perspective and that should be supported. Where, as the survey dictates, parents are happy with their school ethos then we should support that. The Irish Times also found that 70% of parents want their children to receive faith-based instruction. I ask the Minister to consider this contribution as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  In the minute I have it will be very hard to say much. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mattie McGrath)  T\u00e1 n\u00f3im\u00e9ad go leith ag an Teachta. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach. I agree with a lot of what the Social Democrats are trying to do. We do need to recognise the diversity we have and possibly take religion out of schools. It is an issue for parents to decide. Religious instruction being done outside school time makes a lot of sense. What we have in Ireland, however, is an Irish solution to an Irish problem where all the new schools - or most of them, 50 or 51 - are multidenominational.  The Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach has given me an extra half a minute. If we held the referendum tomorrow, and remember the Catholic Church owns most of the schools in the State, I would hazard a guess that for noble reasons and for less noble reasons people would vote against taking religion out of schools, but we should have that discussion and we should put it up to the people. We do not want to end up like Australia with elite Catholic schools.  The minority religions in this country do feel very strongly about having their ethos and the way they are tied up in the community. I do take on board some comments about how schools and churches are very much linked but in urban areas I definitely think that the closest school is always the best school for the child, irrespective of ideology. Maybe we should be taking religion out but let us have a wider and proper discussion on it and put it to the people, maybe through a citizens' convention. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Aonta\u00edm go m\u00f3r leis an r\u00fan seo. When we speak about education we do not just speak about education, buildings or the boards of management. We speak about values, choice and identity. I can understand a lot of the stuff behind the motion. I agree with the spirit of the motion but I also signed up to support the programme for Government. I did not do so blindly and uncritically. I had a good look at the programme for Government and there is a clear thing that is not mentioned in this debate. On page 66 it says the Government will \"Hold a convention bringing together all stakeholders in education.\" Will the Minister tell us when this will be done? We need to bring in all the stakeholders. Have communication. Hundreds of parents in north Dublin have spoken to me who want the choice.  I want to be able to hold the Government to the commitments that other Independents, the two parties and I have signed up for. It is a document that we all agreed would say this was what we were going to do. Some 90% of primary schools in Ireland remain under religious patronage, as has been said by everyone in this Chamber, with fewer than 6% being multidenominational. The parents I speak to in my constituency tell me that they do not have the choice. Some parents want non-religious education while some want coeducational schools. The numbers bear this out. As Deputy Gogarty just said, 51 of 52 new schools have been multidenominational. However, the overall pace of change remains too slow for the parents who want that choice.  The previous programme for Government committed to \"400 multidenominational primary schools by 2030\", a target that has vanished from the current document, similar to other targets in much of this document. It is one of the first programmes for Government to omit this. I understand why, as it means the next Government would otherwise be held accountable. However, if we believe in pluralism and inclusion, we must show it in writing and show a clear commitment to how much we are going to do.  The Government amendment rightly acknowledges parental choice and increasing enrolments, but it fails to mention in its amendment key commitments, such as the promise to expand opportunities for students to attend Gaelscoileanna and Gaelchol\u00e1ist\u00ed. This is something that I am hearing consistently. I am in a group chat - the Minister is well aware of it - of 450 parents who are still banging on the door. I have asked already but will do it again: will the Minister get the Department to reach out to Gaelchol\u00e1iste Reachrann before the end of this term? North Dublin needs to be shown that the Gaeilgeoir\u00ed in the constituency have the right to a school building. I was very lucky to have a sister who taught me the Irish language, but there are children attending that school whose parents do not have the language. If we want to revitalise the Irish language, we need to give them that choice. Is \u00ed \u00e1r dteanga dh\u00fachais \u00ed, agus caithfimid a bheith br\u00f3d\u00fail as \u00e1r dteanga dh\u00fachais agus an t-airgead a chur isteach inti. Mura bhfuilimid \u00e1 dh\u00e9anamh sin, t\u00e1 s\u00e9 uaf\u00e1sach do na daoine \u00f3ga at\u00e1 ag f\u00e1s an\u00edos ag iarraidh \u00e1r dteanga dh\u00fachais a fhoghlaim.  Let me say this clearly: we cannot talk about parental choice and diversity in education while ignoring Irish-medium schools. This is not pluralism; it is selective silence. I asked the Minister to go to Gaelchol\u00e1iste Reachrann, not for a photo op or TikTok video, but as a show of respect and seriousness, because they are the generation who sustains and grows the Irish language. We must fund and support the schools that do the work every day and show the teachers who are in a staff room in a prefab that we are committed to supporting them.  I wish to speak directly to the parents, especially those campaigning for change, whom I met in the audiovisual room recently at an event held by one of the Minister's party's members. I have listened to them and I am hoping to push from the inside. I am not turning my back on their campaign. I am using this to insist that the commitments made in the programme for Government are kept, crucially, the commitments to Irish-language education, Gaelscoileanna and Gaelchol\u00e1ist\u00ed, reflecting both parental choice and our national identity.  There is a short line in the programme for Government. It is easy to miss, but it is essential, \"Hold a convention bringing together all stakeholders in education\". Cathain at\u00e1 an tAire chun \u00e9 sin a dh\u00e9anamh? We need to have the convention and the clear choice. I apologise if she has already announced it and I missed it. The future of Irish education cannot be decided behind closed doors. It should be co-created openly and transparently and with all people involved.  I support the amendment, but I will not be supporting the motion. Let us honour the programme for Government and show the people that we mean what we said and what we all signed up for. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Justice (Deputy Colm Brophy)  Today's debate has been beneficial. I have listened carefully to contributions made by all Deputies, each important and warranting consideration. The Minister, Depute McEntee, who was in the Chamber until just now, has given particular updates and outlines of current work happening within the Department and the planned work to increase the number of multidenominational schools where parents and school communities want this.  In response to the issues raised, and adding to the earlier contribution made by the Minister, it is clear that parental choice is key. It is recognised that more diverse provision is require to cater for our changing society. I am conscious that, as well as parents and guardians, teachers and school staff in our schools are a reflection of modern Ireland. At post-primary level nationally, 48.6% of students are enrolled in multidenominational or interdenominational schools; 47.6% are enrolled in schools with a Catholic ethos; and 2.9% are enrolled in schools with a Church of Ireland ethos. The remaining 0.9% is accounted for by post-primary schools with an ethos other than Catholic, Church of Ireland or interdenominational or multidenominational. Progress has been made toward increasing the number of multidenominational primary schools.  As the Minister set out, there has been a large increase of 87.5%, albeit from a relatively low base of just under 24,000, to more than 44,000 in student enrolments in mainstream multidenominational and interdenominational primary schools over a ten-year period. There are currently 172 primary schools with a multidenominational or interdenominational ethos. This represents 5.5% of primary schools. However, at primary level, we need to do more. This is why I very much welcome that the Minister has set out that she and her Department are developing a framework and an action plan to increase the number of multidenominational primary schools to meet parental demand and the commitment in the programme for Government. As part of delivering on the programme for Government commitment, the Minister intends to launch an online, school-specific survey of parents and school communities on what type of education they would like to see for their children and schools. A separate survey will be made available to school staff and board of management members. In tandem with the proposed survey, the Department of education will be providing clear information for parents and guardians to enable them to make an informed decision about the different types of primary school patronage options.  As the Minister has set out, the schools reconfiguration for diversity process has been developed to support the transfer of schools to multidenominational patrons in response to the wishes of local communities. That is key. The wishes of local communities are what matters here. When a school transfers from the patronage of one patron to another, the school remains open, retains the same roll number and continues operating from the same school property with the same school staff and pupils. It is recognised, including by Catholic patrons, that more diverse provision is required to cater for our changing society.  Patrons have a legal right to design their own programmes in accordance with the ethos of their schools. Religious education is one of the seven curricular areas of the primary school curriculum. However, unlike other subject areas, the content of the religious curriculum provided by primary schools is not set by the Department of education. Section 30 of the Education Act provides that time will be made available in the school day to teach curriculum that arises from the ethos of the school. This means that the content of a religious instruction programme in a particular primary school is determined by the patron of that school.  Denominational schools have played an important role in primary education in Ireland for more than a century. They, along with other primary schools, have a strong history of inclusivity in serving their local communities and have accepted children of all faiths and none. As the Minister referenced, the provisions of Article 44 of the Constitution recognise the rights of children to attend school without attending religious instruction at that school. Furthermore, the provisions of section 30(2)( e ) of the Education Act 1998 provide that a school \"shall not require any student to attend instruction in any subject which is contrary to the conscience of the parent [or guardian] of the student or in the case of a student who has reached the age of 18 years, the student\". It is expected that this right will be upheld by schools on foot of a parental request. The provisions of the Education (Admission to Schools) Act 2018 requires that where schools provide religious instruction, they must clearly set out their admissions policies and the \"school's arrangements ... [for] student[s], where the parent ... or in the case of a student who has reached the age of 18 years, the student, has requested that the student attend the school without attending religious instruction\". The manner in which any school ensures that right to not attend religion instruction classes is upheld is a matter for the school concerned. Each school must determine the particular arrangements that are appropriate in its individual circumstances, having regard to local issues such as available space, supervision requirements and how the school concerned organises classes.  The Department of Education and Youth is working with education partners to assist schools to strengthen their approach in providing for diverse enrolments in a changing society. Guidance for good practice is available to schools in the follow-up paper to the report of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector, which was published in 2014. The paper provides an overview of the different types of arrangements that schools have put in place to facilitate parents who do not wish for their children to attend religious instruction activities. The paper encourages school authorities to consider their policies and practices and to review whether they are taking the steps necessary to welcome all pupils and make them feel included. The Catholic schools partnership has also published guidelines for Catholic schools on the inclusion of all pupils. This also contains suggestions on how such schools can manage requests to attend school without attending religious instruction.  The Government has committed to holding a convention that will bring together all stakeholders in education. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, has committed to ensuring the convention will reflect the Ireland of today in all its diversity and, in particular, the voices of children and young people, their parents, their guardians, education stakeholders and the voices of wider society. It is also important we reflect on how best to provide for what is working well in education, what challenges are beginning to emerge and what actions we need to take to address these challenges and examine what needs to be changed. The Government's goal with the convention is to develop an ambitious vision and programme of work for education that will deliver both over the coming years and in the medium-term future.  The Government recognises the importance of parental choice and is committed to seeking to increase the choice for parents by ensuring families can access both multidenominational and nondenominational and faith-based education in line with the programme for Government commitment. We will therefore establish the level of parental demand for primary schools their children attend now or will attend in the future and to change to a multidenominational ethos by commencing the planned survey of primary school communities. We will take any necessary steps to ensure patronage transfers are facilitated where parents and school communities support this. We will continue to progress the reconfiguration process with the goal of establishing a strong process that has the support of patrons and local communities and which will enable us to continue to increase the number of multidenominational primary schools across the country. We will also ensure the Department of Education and Youth continues to engage with key stakeholders on the reconfiguration process and to support the school communities when schools are transferring patronage.  The focus of the Department of Education and Youth is on maximising the use of existing school estate by facilitating the transfer of patronage of existing denominational schools rather than establishing new multidenominational schools where that is the preference of local school communities. This provides the most cost-effective method for delivering on the programme for Government commitment to increase the choice for parents by ensuring that families can access both multidenominational and nondenominational and faith-based education. As the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has stated, the Government recognises the importance of parental choice and we are committed to delivering an education system that is of the highest quality and where every child and young person feels valued, actively supported and nurtured to reach their full potential.  I thank everyone for their contributions to today's debate and I ask the House to support the Government's countermotion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  I thank the Minister of State for his contribution. I commend the work of my colleague Deputy Jen Cummins - or, of particular interest and of importance in this debate, Dr. Jen Cummins - who has dedicated her professional life to education, both formal and informal. I say that just to add even further credibility to the validity of this motion. This is evidence-informed and it is important that we are discussing this. I ask the Minister of State to reflect on the contributions we have made and their content.  I have been a youth worker for about 15 years. The Education Act stipulates that youth work is complementary to a young person's formal and academic qualifications. We have heard other contributions today about some of the key ethical and value-based interventions that formal education can make. Youth work does similar but it is also stipulated that it is complementary to the full-time education that children and young people experience. What is so powerful about youth work is that young people choose to engage. Ultimately, this debate boils down to choice: choice for children and young people, choice for their parents, choice for communities and choice for the staff in communities. What we hope to achieve and the purpose of this motion is that our entire community has an inclusive opportunity to be engaged in our full-time education system.  The Minister of State will be aware that we have a capacity issue in many areas when it comes to education. Many parents would simply accept any offer of an education place at this point. That is no compliment of the system. The system is fractured when that is the case. I reiterate my call for the forward planning teams in the Department to really engage with community leaders where there are issues of capacity. We need to work together. Rather than asking parents who are already under so much pressure to have to campaign themselves for the opening of new schools or extensions, we should get our forward planning in tandem with our population growth.  Before giving way to my colleague Deputy Cummins, I implore the Minister of State and the Government to consider withdrawing this amendment. All we have asked for in this motion is for the policy ambition of previous Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il governments to be continued with regard to a target. We are not asking for anything that has not been in previous programmes for government. With that in mind, the motion gives assurances to communities that we can seek consistency in our policy, in our planning and in what we hope, whether it is for our children or our children's children, that there will be a level of ambition there and that there is choice, to come back to that word.  I accept the amendment. There is a culture here whereby, irrespective of the Private Members' business, it is changed and amended and we go with what the programme for Government says. This motion actually just seeks to reiterate what the previous programme for Government had committed to. With that in mind, I ask while we have time between now and the voting block that the Government might consider withdrawing that amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I thank everybody who participated in today's debate. More importantly, I thank all those parents, educators and campaigners across the country who continue to fight not for privilege but for parity and not for special treatment but for choice. This has been going on for 50 years. I have been a campaigner for multidenominational schools since 2007. As a family of a minority religion as well as strong believers in that religion as a private matter, we needed a school where we would be welcome. Griffith Barracks Multi-Denominational School was that school. I became involved with the patron of that school and the board of management of the school and then I became a director of the board of directors of Educate Together. I served as chair of that board of directors for five years. In the course of that time, we opened up 40 new multidenominational schools. We saw the 40th anniversary of Educate Together. We also saw schools through the Covid-19 pandemic. As an employee of City of Dublin ETB, I saw first-hand the establishment of community national schools and I have worked with many schools that are multidenominational and religious patrons throughout this country.  Yesterday in the audiovisual room we heard from a parent who went to a multidenominational school 30 years ago. Now she has twins and unfortunately does not have a school place that represents her family. She is still fighting. Her parents fought, she is fighting, and we are all continuing to fight.  In my constituency, in Dublin 8, the Educate D8 campaign is fighting tirelessly to ensure that they have a multidenominational school in their area. We brought forward this motion because the current system is dominated by religious patronage and no longer reflects the reality of the Ireland we live in today. It is a diverse and modern Republic, yet over 94.5% of our primary schools are under religious control. It is not balanced, not inclusive and not a choice.  Our motion is not an attack on denominational schools at all, and I want to make that very clear. It is about providing choice, and that includes if you want to send your child to a multidenominational, nondenominational, interdenominational or denominational school. That is okay by our motion.  The Government's amendment gestures towards progress. It recites statistics, restates old commitments and assures us that things are moving, but it also avoids a central truth that everyone in this Chamber knows: change is happening far too slowly and families across Ireland are being left behind. Despite all the carefully worded acknowledgments in the amendment, families are still struggling to access schools that reflect their beliefs, communities that want change are still being left in the dark and year after year the Government promises more diversity but delivers more delay.  We welcome that there are now going to be two surveys. We are a little bit concerned, however, that there is just constant talk of surveys but the surveys have not gone out. They were meant to go out in September 2024. It was the same in January 2025. The school year is nearly over. Ask any school principal and they will tell us the year is going to fly by and they have a load of work to do. Surveys need to happen immediately or it will not be possible to collect the data. This D\u00e1il term will be over by the time the data is collected and put into effect.  We heard a lot today about choice and diversity but we cannot achieve either as long as we cling to a model that puts religious patrons in charge of our children's schools and does not give choice to every parent. We welcome and acknowledge that denominational schools have served communities. We know this. There is a very strong history of denominational schools being excellent for the children in those schools but there are still children sitting in classrooms who are being excluded every day. Parents are being forced to send their children to schools that do not reflect their values. Teachers are still being asked about their religion in job interviews, to teach things they are not comfortable with and to do a certificate at university so they can teach in a State-funded school.  This motion does not ask for anything extreme. It simply calls for a real and deliverable target of 400 multidenominational schools by 2030 and for any new school being opened to be a multidenominational school. There are already quite a number of denominational schools, as we and several other Deputies outlined. It also calls for faith formation to happen outside core school hours and respects all beliefs. There should be an end to religious discrimination in hiring so that merit and not belief determines who teaches our children. There should be a transparent and community-led mechanism for school reconfiguration and not one controlled by the very patrons who benefit from the status quo . There should be a citizens' assembly on the future of education because a system-wide reform must belong to the people.  These are reasonable requests and reflect what parents want across the country. People supporting this motion will see if the Government does support it. I know it has an amendment submitted. I echo what Deputy Farrelly has said in urging the Government to withdraw the amendment. Not removing the amendment will demonstrate that the Government is not accepting our motion. We are trying to reflect what the parents around the country are asking us for. They are asking for more spaces in schools and for more choice. We are saying that we hear and believe them and we are with them. Voting against the motion will dilute the proposals. There will then be excuses. We do not accept that and we do not believe the public will either. It is time to stop managing expectations and to start meeting them. Let us build an education system that reflects who we really are and aspire to be.  We are asking the Government to withdraw its amendment and support our motion so genuine choice for parents in their child's education is truly acceptable. We have a wonderful education system but it can be better. I have said this so many times on the floor of this House. We really have high-quality education. We have excellent schools and excellent teachers, SNAs and people working in them, but we need more choice so that people do not feel excluded. No child in 2025 should be sitting at the back of the classroom excluded. No child should feel they are not part of their school community because they have different beliefs. In a multidenominational school, everybody is equal, everybody is treated with respect and all beliefs and none are respected. This is simply what we are asking for. Go raibh maith agat. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mattie McGrath)  In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is deferred until the weekly division time next week. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 5.55 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 5.57 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Sitting suspended at 5.55 p.m. and resumed at 5.57 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Parental Choice in Education: Motion [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_47","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_47","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mattie McGrath)  I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case:  Deputy Michael Cahill - To discuss the disparity faced by school secretaries in terms of leave entitlements and pension rights.  Deputies Rose Conway-Walsh, P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn, Pearse Doherty, Donna McGettigan - To discuss the increase in the cap for the defective block grant scheme.  Deputy George Lawlor - To discuss progress on the new Wexford campus of the South East Technological University.  Deputy Paul Murphy - To discuss a public inquiry for conduct in care facilities during Covid.  Deputy Dessie Ellis - To discuss funding for An Saol Foundation CLG's plan to relocate to a new campus in Ballymun.  Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice - To discuss driving test wait times in Cork.  Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath - To discuss an application under the additional schools accommodation scheme from Scoil Ballinora, County Cork.  Deputy Pat Buckley - To discuss waiting times for hip operations.  Deputy Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in - To discuss the case of CJ Gaffney  Deputy Mattie McGrath - To discuss the decision of the NCSE to halt special education classes in south Tipperary.  Deputy Aidan Farrelly - To discuss the introduction of the new fare zones to the public transport system.  Deputy Marie Sherlock - To discuss a review of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015.  Deputy Roderic O'Gorman - To discuss the need for greater support for Irish aid agencies working abroad.  Deputy Martin Kenny - To discuss the implications of the Good Agricultural Environmental Condition GAEC 2 following recent EU approval.  Deputy David Cullinane - To discuss the funding requirements for the Waterford Airport extension  Deputy Matt Carthy - To discuss the provision of disability services in County Monaghan.  Deputy Emer Currie - To discuss regulation around the commercial use of drones in Ireland.  The matters raised by Deputies Emer Currie, Marie Sherlock, S\u00e9amus McGrath, Mattie McGrath and Roderic O'Gorman have been selected for discussion. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_48","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_48","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Mattie McGrath)  Before we start, I would like to express on my own behalf and that of the House good wishes to our new Pope elected this evening while we were doing the session. I wish him well. Our hearts and prayers are with him. I thank everyone who supported the cardinals for their diligent work. It was a speedy process. Go n-\u00e9ir\u00ed go geal leis an bP\u00e1pa nua. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_49","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Air Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_48","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_48","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_49","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  We have seen the rapid growth of commercial drone activity in Ireland, especially in my constituency of Dublin West. Manna Drone Delivery has been piloting a delivery service from a local base in Blanchardstown Shopping Centre and another site in the vicinity at junction six at the M50, which is the subject of some dispute. The company completes more than 300 deliveries daily within a radius of 3 km. The company has stated that by this summer its services will expand to cover around 500,000 residents across Dublin, with plans for ten drone bases citywide by the end of the year. Potentially, these will serve up to 1 million people.  This is no longer a trial or a novelty. It represents a significant modal shift in how goods and services are being delivered in our communities. It looks like it is here to stay and therefore demands our attention from a planning and regulatory perspective. While business innovation is welcome, as are the potential reduction in carbon emissions and the timely delivery of medicine and medical equipment, it brings to the fore issues we cannot ignore. These include protecting the public's privacy, ensuring safety and managing the day-to-day impact on people's lives, especially in densely populated areas. It is important that we support innovation while addressing the very real concerns of local communities, like noise pollution. The noise levels of drones in Dublin West can reach 60 dB to 65 dB above WHO recommendations for daily noise exposure. There are flight paths over residential areas. When we knock on the doors of houses like we do when we are canvassing and spend a significant time in an estate, it is possible to experience a snapshot of what residents inside that 3 km radius are now living with. It is a near continuous hum of drones overhead. Some liken it to the noise of a lawnmower. It is fine every now and again right beside you, but not all the time above you. We are used to the noise of passing traffic or a passing train during the day.  Rather than asking them, are we really telling residents that they must accept this change in their environment, this disruption and, to some, this intrusion without debate or public consultation? Currently, our planning and regulatory system does not support that. The first-hand experience of nearby residents must be taken into account as we move forward with developing a clear framework for commercial drone operations. It is essential that we do not let innovation outpace regulation. Some have that said drones are completely unregulated, but that is not true. Two EU regulations currently apply. One governs how drones are operated by weight and the other sets technical and safety standards for the drones. However, they focus on aviation safety and risk and do not take into consideration the needs of communities and residents who do not know who to contact to raise concerns or make a noise complaint. In addition, they do not know what their rights are. The national policy framework for unmanned aircraft systems currently in development needs to be launched. A national public awareness campaign on the role and responsibilities of the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, and the rights of residents is necessary. We also need a clear distinction between the role of the planning authority and the IAA, and the establishment of a U-space, an unmanned traffic management system. This would allow authorities to define controlled flight zones, schedule flight times over residential areas and ensure that drones are safely and responsibly integrated into shared airspace. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Justice (Deputy Colm Brophy)  I thank Deputy Currie for raising this matter which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Transport. From the aviation safety perspective, the regulation of the recreational and commercial use of drones, or unmanned aircraft systems as they are technically known, is provided for under European Union regulations that are directly applicable to Ireland. Two drone-specific EU regulations ensure that drone operations across Europe are safe and secure. In that context, Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2019\/945 and the Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) 2019\/947 set out the common rules for the regulation of drones and drone operators, including training, licensing and registration. Regulation 2019\/947 sets out the operational rules that apply to professional drone operators and those flying drones for leisure. Regulation 2019\/945 sets the common EU-wide technical requirements for drones, which are the features and capabilities that drones must have in order to be flown safely. This regulation also seeks to foster investment and innovation in this sector through a harmonised framework across the European Union. The aim of the EU drone regulations is to achieve the same level of safety for drone operations as manned aviation.  The Irish Aviation Authority, the civil aviation regulator, oversees the implementation of the EU drone regulations and standards. The drone regulations are operation centric and focus on the risk of drone operations, so regulation is lighter on low-risk operations and more demanding on higher risk operations. Under the EU regulatory regime, drone operations are classified into three broad categories - open, specific and certified - with different regulatory considerations applied across each category. Commercial drone operations may fall into any one of these categories depending on the risk associated with the operation. Low-risk commercial drone operations, such as aerial photography, may fall in the open category where regulation and oversight of operations are lighter. Other commercial drone operations, including drone delivery operations, are more closely regulated. These types of commercial drone operations may fall into the medium-risk specific category, which may require specific authorisation by the IAA. This type of authorisation is recognised in all EU member states. To obtain operational authorisation, an operator must provide a comprehensive safety portfolio which includes assessing and addressing both ground and air risks with appropriate mitigations. These might include, for example, co-ordination with air traffic control and fitting the drone with a parachute and flight termination system.  At national level, SI 24\/2023, Irish Aviation Authority (Unmanned Aircraft Systems (Drones)) Order 2023, which replaced an earlier drones order, came into force on 2 February 2023. It states the investigative and enforcement powers of the IAA and provides for arrangements between An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the IAA in relation to enforcement of EU drone regulations. It also includes a section on privacy rights, which draws the attention of drone operators to the need to prepare a data protection impact assessment where required, in accordance with the EU general data protection regulation. In addition to complying with EU drone regulations, drone operators must also comply with national laws, including environmental, planning and, as mentioned, privacy laws.  In addition to the two EU drone regulations to which I referred, there is also a European regulatory framework, comprising Regulations (EU) 2021\/664, 2021\/665 and 2021\/666, which allows for the safe development of the drone services market, including drone delivery and the integration of drones into airspace. The U-space regulation - Regulation (EU) 2021\/664) - emerged to support commercial operations with drones, especially those entailing greater complexity and automation, to provide for the safe integration of a number of drone flights in a volume of airspace. Essentially, U-space is an area of airspace where drone operations may only occur with the support of U-space services. At a minimum, these must include network identification, traffic management, flight authorisation and geo-awareness. U-space full services are not envisaged to happen until 2030. The establishment of U-space in high-density drone use areas may mitigate some concerns related to privacy and security. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  The Minister of State's response proves my point. I thank him for it. This is heavy on regulation rather than on the rights of residents and communities. The language used is not at all consumer-friendly. Meanwhile, we are seeing the fast development, growth and expansion of these deliveries and services and they are impacting communities. We have to make sure the regulations and public information are keeping pace with that innovation. The national policy framework currently in development needs to be launched. This framework needs to be consumer-friendly. U-space services are the critical part of this because it gets down to the nitty-gritty of flight paths over housing estates. The Minister of State indicated that he does not see this as being fully envisaged until 2030. That will be too late. The IAA is collaborating with Maynooth University and Dublin City Council on a drone innovation partnership that will inform the development of an unmanned traffic system in the Dublin city region. Fingal County Council needs to be part of that. Other councils should be part of it too. The U-space approach needs to be prioritised.  This is not about curbing innovation. It is about building the right regulatory foundation so that innovation can grow with public confidence and local support. However, that is not happening. We need to take a consumer-friendly approach to engaging with and consulting the public on issues like this in order to make it relatable, relevant and explainable to residents who have legitimate concerns about noise and intrusiveness. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  Aviation is obviously a highly regulated area, but I agree with the Deputy that the rapid pace of drone innovation and its commercialisation have created a challenge. The Government is aware of the impact of that and of the growing drone sector, particularly in the context of the increasing volume of operations. The programme for Government includes a commitment to finalise and implement a policy framework to guide high levels of strategic planning and the development of the drone sector in Ireland through supporting its growth and innovation but also ensuring other aspects, including safe and secure operations and managing environmental concerns.  A public consultation seeking feedback from the public on several key areas, including how to respond to public concerns about the increasing use of drones, how to position Ireland as a potential front runner in this emerging sector and the responsible development of the drone sector, was held in 2024. The policy framework seeks to strike a balance, as the Deputy stated, between those concerns. I will take her comments back to the Minister as I know she will. As someone who represents a constituency that is similar to hers, some of her concerns have been raised with me on an ongoing basis, particularly in relation to noise impact of continuous drone operation in residential areas. I very much hear what the Deputy is saying. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Air Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_50","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Legislative Reviews","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_48","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_48","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_50","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  I am calling for an urgent and speedy review of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015. Many of us recognise and applaud the intent and ambition of the Act in supposedly giving greater power and autonomy to vulnerable individuals and to significantly increasing the numbers registering enduring power of attorney, EPA. The reality has proved very different, however. I want to relay to the Minister of State the enormous frustration among many people with the operation of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act. This is not about one single piece of the Act but about the operation of both the enduring power of attorney and the operation and bureaucracy around that, the decision-making representative and the process of registration. The frustrations relate to access to the system of registering for an EPA, the cost, the length of the procedure and who recognises it. It is supposed to be a legal document and yet I have accounts of banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions that are refusing to recognise an enduring power of attorney. The anger relates to the decision-making representative piece as well where parents are forced to go to court just to represent the needs and well-being of their adult children or siblings. They have very serious concerns about how onerous the bureaucracy is around all that and the costs, but also in terms of the balance of rights and responsibilities. I believe there are four key concerns.  A number of families told me they have spent thousands of euro trying to complete the process of registering for enduring power of attorney. One family spent \u20ac4,800. That is the very opposite of what the Act set out to achieve. It is downright exclusionary of the very people we are seeking to try to help here. We have confusion about the role of the solicitor. Obviously, we have the 2024 practice instruction from the Law Society of Ireland with regard to engaging only with applicants from start to finish as opposed to just for the legal practitioner statement. The Decision Support Service, DSS, told one constituent of mine there are only three solicitors in the country who are willing to do that single piece of the legal practitioner statement. That is contradicted by the replies to parliamentary questions I have received. We need clarity between what the DSS is saying and what the Department of Justice is saying.  Then, we have difficulties with recognising an enduring power of attorney. In one case, a woman had to battle with a fair deal office, then AIB and then Aviva just to have the enduring power of attorney recognised in terms of dealing with her dad's affairs. The Decision Support Service was of zero help in this regard. The process as she described it was absolutely tortuous. Is it any wonder we have seen a reduction in numbers in the EPA process over the past two years?  The other critical point is with regard to the wardship system. By 26 April next year, all wards of court are supposed to exit the system and yet we have seen a very small number of those voluntarily exiting the system. What is going to be done in that regard?  I want to cover the significant issues with regard to the decision-making representative, DMR. I know of one gentleman who went through the courts process, which legal aid did not fully cover, by the way, because he had to pay for the capacity assessment for his sister. He went through all that and then he came to us when he had to submit the initial report, and then what will come up next year is the annual report. It is 34 pages long, it is not downloadable, and it is tortuous in terms of filling out.  I have had parents come to me with very serious concerns about the care of their adult children now within certain institutions in this country because of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act in terms of the level of autonomy in decision-making that is being given to their child, which may actually go against their health and well-being. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  I thank Deputy Sherlock for raising this important issue and for offering me the opportunity to respond.  The Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015 was commenced in 2023, and it represents a landmark legal reform in this country. The Act replaced the 1871 Victorian-era wards of court system with a rights-based model for tiered decision support arrangements. It is a key component of our compliance with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, UNCRPD, and has positioned Ireland as a leader on capacity law internationally. The 2015 Act was developed in close consultation with a wide range of stakeholders and was welcomed by disability groups, advocacy groups and safeguarding groups alike. A review of the Act not later than five years after its commencement is required under the legislation itself, and the programme for Government also commits to a review.  In assessing the operation of the Act, it is important to bear in mind that the Act represents ambitious and systemic reform of a system that predates the Irish State. We need to distinguish teething pains and the adjustment of sectors and professions to significant change from the areas where the Act itself must be improved. Legislative review can only be approached with the insights of a sufficient period of operation. Where improvements to the Act may be necessary, they will be made. In that regard, the operation of the Act is continuously monitored to ensure its effective operation. Issues arising are examined and addressed, as appropriate, and co-ordinated by an interdepartmental steering group chaired by the Department.  The Minister has been paying close attention to the operation of the Act and is pleased to see that the available data shows significant and increasing numbers of people engaging positively with the new system. To date, the Decision Support Service has registered almost 4,000 decision support arrangements, including more than 2,300 enduring powers of attorney, indicating a robust uptake. Ensuring the accessibility and efficiency for decision supports is vital. While some aspects of the Act relate to court processes, within the Minister\u2019s direct remit is the availability and quality of DSS services. Both the Department and the DSS have engaged with a wide range of stakeholders to understand the experiences of the Act and to identify and address any difficulties that may be arising.  In the main, experiences have been extremely positive, but action has been taken to address barriers to accessing services and supports. This has included engagement with the legal profession in respect of their role in the EPA application process and the establishment of a dedicated EPA helpdesk to ensure individuals who require additional assistance in completing an online EPA application are supported in doing so. Individuals who are unable to utilise the online portal, for a variety of reasons, are facilitated in making an EPA application manually. Officials in the Department will continue to monitor and review the operational issues as they arise. In all aspects, the Minister\u2019s primary concern is that the Act delivers appropriate, safe and rights-based supports. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  I thank the Minister of State for that. It is important to understand and listen to the experience of those who have the working knowledge of how this Act has operated. Five years is simply too long a period for a review of this legislation to take place. I want to relay to the Minister of State some of the views of the Huntington's Disease Association of Ireland, which talks about how the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act upholds a person's right to refuse services, but that robust checks are required to ensure a person's disability does not lead to a violation of their human right to health and social care, welfare entitlements, family relationships, social engagement, protection from exploitation, nutrition, housing, etc.  At the heart of the UNCRPD, which has been ratified by Ireland, is that we obviously want to promote and move away from the paternalistic attitudes towards those with intellectual and physical disabilities in this country to ensure they have their human rights and fundamental freedoms. However, we also have to consider when those disabilities may actually impact on their decision-making. I believe the legislation as currently drafted is too blunt in that regard and that there is confusion within the providers of care in this country. I will give the Minister of State one example.  I met a couple in February who talked to me about their daughter. She is in her 40s, and she has a particular condition where she has to be careful about the sugar she takes because of the various impacts. In the care home previously, if that woman wanted to have three slices of chocolate cake, she would be warded off that and told it is going to have a negative and adverse impact. Now, however, that family is telling me they are powerless to intervene. If this adult wants that, she is going to get it. The reality is we have to have a much better balance between looking after the welfare and well-being of these individuals, while absolutely recognising their right to make decisions where it is possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  I reiterate that the Minister\u2019s aim is to ensure the most effective operation of the assisted decision-making (capacity) legislation and to ensure that its principles are upheld and that its objectives of promoting and enshrining the rights of those with capacity difficulties to retain as much autonomy as possible are realised. We must always make sure that our laws are working for the people they are intended to serve. For this reason, the Act itself has a built-in review of its operation after a five-year period following commencement, recognising that with any significant change some issues will need to be addressed with the benefit of a period of operation and hindsight. Critical to the forthcoming review will be the experiences of stakeholders and, in particular, of service users. The role of the interdepartmental steering group that I mentioned earlier, which has been monitoring implementation since the commencement of the Act, will also be critical. The Minister will continue to work with all stakeholders to ensure that the required review of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act captures the lived experience of people with capacity difficulties and ultimately ensures that people in Ireland are supported in retaining their autonomy and dignity in circumstances where they lose the capacity to make certain decisions and require appropriate, accessible, safe, and rights-based support. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Legislative Reviews"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_51","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"School Accommodation","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_48","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_48","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_51","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I thank the Minister of State for being here to answer this question. I wish to raise the issue of an additional accommodation scheme application from Ballinora National School in County Cork. I previously submitted parliamentary questions on this issue and the responses indicated that a decision was awaited. I understand that a positive decision has been issued to the school that funding will be made available. The question now relates to the timing of this. We are now in the month of May and need to have this ready for the new school year. The school community, parents and school management are very concerned about the time available to them to get this up and running, to secure temporary accommodation and so on. I ask that every effort be made by the Department to ensure that the school will be assisted in ensuring that it can have this additional accommodation for the new school term. This essentially will allow the school to have a second junior infant class. The demand is there. As a public representative, I have had a lot of parents contact me who are deeply concerned about the uncertainty relating to the provision of this second class. They need to be sure that they can send their child to this particular school in their local community, which is what they want to do. Unfortunately, the decision from the Department was slow in coming. When it did come it was very welcome but there is huge concern about timing and the ability to make this happen for the new school term. I seek reassurance from the Minister of State that every effort will be made by the Department to work with the school to ensure that this will be up and running so that parents, school management, staff and the principal can have a degree of certainty. I will not use all of the time allotted but would appreciate whatever level of assurance the Minister of State can give on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  I thank the Deputy for the question and for giving me the opportunity to reply on behalf of the Minister for Education and Youth and to outline how the Department is working to ensure that there is appropriate school accommodation in place to meet the school place needs of all children. I stress that enabling students to receive an education appropriate to their needs is an ongoing priority for the Government. To plan for school place needs, the Department divides the country into 314 school planning areas and utilises a geographical information system, GIS, to anticipate school place demand. Information from a range of sources including child benefit data, school enrolment data and information on residential development activity is used for this purpose. Additionally, Project Ireland 2040 population and housing targets inform the Department's projections of school place requirements.  While the Department is aware of enrolment pressures and demand for additional school places in some areas, it is important to note that where enrolment pressures arise, it may not be as a result of lack of accommodation but may be driven by the following factors: duplication of applications, school of choice, single sex schools and external draw. Notwithstanding the aforementioned issues, in some areas demographic pressures and other factors are driving a requirement for additional school places. Where demographic data indicates that additional provision is required, the delivery of such additional provision is dependent on the particular circumstances of each case and may be provided through the utilisation of existing unused capacity within a school or schools, extending the capacity of a school or schools, or the provision of a new school or schools. The expansion of existing schools is typically delivered by means of the Department's additional school accommodation, ASA, scheme. It is open to all school authorities to make an application for additional accommodation through the ASA which is available at www.gov.ie.   Since 2020, the Department has invested more than \u20ac5.9 billion in our schools throughout the country, involving the completion of more than 1,350 school building projects. Between projects currently under construction and projects moving to construction in the coming months, investments by the Department are adding in excess of 610,000 sq. m of new and modernised capacity to the school estate. This is a record level of investment in schools. It will expand the number of school places, significantly increase provision for special education and upgrade and modernise our school infrastructure. The impact of this will be felt in communities right around the country. The programme for Government recognises the importance of strong capital investment in the school building programme and supporting this with enhanced allocations through the national development plan process.  With regard to the school referred to by the Deputy, I can confirm that the Department of Education and Youth received an application under the ASA scheme for temporary accommodation for the upcoming school year. The assessment of the school's ASA application is complete. I can confirm that departmental officials have engaged with the school in recent days and have approved temporary accommodation to facilitate the intake of a second junior infant class at the school. This engagement will continue over the coming weeks with a view to delivering permanent accommodation solutions to the school and its community. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I thank the Minister of State for his response, which I welcome, particularly the section towards the end where confirmation is provided about engagement with the school in the past few days and the positive funding decision for the provision of temporary accommodation. I particularly welcome the commitment to engagement over the coming weeks with the school. It is important that active engagement takes place to ensure that this can be put in place for the coming school term starting at the end of August. That is where the concern lies. I will leave the Minister of State with one request, which is that he relays that concern back to the Department. There will be a need for active engagement to make this happen in time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  Again, I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. I reassure him that I will convey that concern back to the Minister to ensure that continued engagement takes place. I have no doubt that the Deputy will continue to raise it and engage on it himself too. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"School Accommodation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_52","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_48","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_48","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_52","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to raise this very serious issue. A number of ASD units were approved for three secondary schools in south Tipperary. Three principals and their staff, boards of management and parents of children with special needs were waiting for places and expected them to come on stream. In fact, the SENOs asked them to generate space and accommodation and all of the resources needed to deal with an extra class this year. However, they got shocking news from the Department a couple of days ago to the effect that the classes would not go ahead because the number of special classes in the national tally have been rolled out, which is a total of 399 classes. This is a shocking indictment. To think that some civil servant or some person in the NCSE has decided that we have met a target, the job is done and the box is ticked. This is a body blow to the parents, the children with additional and special needs and the principals of these schools. One of the schools affected is Col\u00e1iste D\u00fan \u00cdascaigh and I have permission from the principal to mention the name. The school has worked with the SENO and the Department and the needs are there. It has pupils with additional needs who are being catered for in mainstream classes. There was real energy and synergy from the whole body of the school to have extra room and an additional six pupils catered for. These people had the clear impression they were being enrolled and were thoroughly delighted, so arrangements were made. This is a body blow.  The Minister of State with responsibility for special education is not here. I am asking him to go back to the NCSE and literally instruct it to not renege on the commitment it made to these children - not to the building, board of management or principal, Mr. Peter Creedon in Cahir, but to the families and particularly to the children. Are we going to allow a situation to develop where, because we have reached a certain quota, it becomes a box-ticking exercise, the quota is met for this year - 399 special classes - and it is a case of \"sorry, tough\"? This is supposed to be about the person. Under the Constitution, every child is entitled to an equal education and every opportunity in life. To think that we could even send out that kind of bland email saying that we have met the quota so it is a case of tough, we are not going ahead with those three classes in those three schools in south Tipperary, is wrong. There are probably many more around the country. In this case, the groundwork has been done and ploughed and many arrangements have been made. The parents are exhausted from trying to get a place and were definitely very pleased to have the knowledge heading into the end of the school year that their children would have a place next year. It is just not acceptable that a bureaucratic system can make a cold bland statement saying that we have reached a quota. It is about people. We are talking about human beings. I believe the Minister of State is committed so he needs to go back to talk to the NCSE, see if that body is fit for purpose and get it to change its decision in this case. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  At the outset, I stress that enabling students with special educational needs to receive an appropriate education is an absolute priority for this Government. It is the Government's priority to ensure all children have an appropriate school placement and that the necessary supports are provided to our schools to allow children with special educational needs to flourish and prosper. There continues to be an increasing need to provide additional special school and special class places to support children with complex needs. To meet this need, 16 new special schools have been established in recent years and capacity has been expanded in a number of others. As the Deputy is aware, five of these special schools have been established for the 2025-2026 school year in counties Cork, Dublin and Monaghan and in Nenagh in County Tipperary.  As the Deputy is aware, the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Moynihan, visited a number of schools in Tipperary in recent weeks, so he knows first-hand the wonderful work being done in schools in the county as well as the need to bolster provision. Of the 400 new special classes places provided for in budget 2025, 399 of these classes have been sanctioned for the 2025-2026 school year. These new classes have been confirmed earlier than previous years. A total of 17 of these are in County Tipperary, which will provide just over 100 new special class places. These will be added to the 3,335 classes already in operation in the country, of which 138 are in Tipperary. The NCSE is engaging with another school to open two more classes, which will bring the number of new classes to 401. For the coming school year, there will therefore be a total of 155 special classes across County Tipperary supporting more than 900 children. The location of these classes has been decided based on known local demand, and schools that have capacity to expand have been approached in the first instance to accommodate the classes.  The NCSE actively encourages expressions of interest from schools to open special classes, and the efforts taken by boards of management in expressing their interest are to be commended. However, it is not always possible to open a special class in every school that expresses an interest. When assessing the needs in the local area, the NCSE identifies schools in the neighbouring vicinity with available special class vacancies or capacity and assesses their capability with consideration to demographic and statistical data. At a local level in County Tipperary and nationwide, the NCSE examined which schools had capacity to expand and focused on medium and larger primary schools with available accommodation and no existing special class to open a new special class for the 2025-2026 school year. This consideration will continue to factor in planning for the 2026-2027 school year. This will ensure classes can open quickly as existing accommodation can be reconfigured in a more streamlined and efficient manner. It also ensures new provision is established in as many schools as possible. This not only provides parents more options when deciding which schools to apply to but ensures provision continues to grow in a diverse number of schools across regions.  As in other years, however, where schools have no available accommodation, especially at post-primary level, and there is known demand in a local area, the Department will continue to provide additional classroom accommodation to provide necessary places. I know that both the Minister and the Minister of State, in keeping with the commitment in the new programme for Government, will be working to secure further funding in the upcoming budget to provide further special class and special school places in 2026 in County Tipperary and throughout the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  I appreciate it is not the Minister of State's reply - he is reading it out - but it is not about quotas, deadlines and systems like that. It is about ordinary children with needs. It is not fair on the schools that expected to open these schools to now have to wait to see if the decision will be reversed. By the Minister of State's account, I do not think it will be. We are approaching the end of the school term and principals have already been including the expected allocation in their numbers. One such school is Col\u00e1iste D\u00fan Iascaigh in Cahir, which was approached by the SENO to consider accepting an additional ASD satellite class. I commend the principal, Peter Creedon, and Ms Fiona Greene, who is the co-ordinator, on their work to ensure the needs of all students are met, but this is increasingly difficult. There are a number of students with a diagnosis of special educational needs in mainstream classes with no supports, and a number of children with complex needs do not have a place in the special class. Many principals like Peter Creedon have taken time to engage with the NCSE over recent months and have made plans for these new classes but have been told they cannot now proceed, not because of a lack need but because the Government has reached its target regardless of need. This is so cruel. We are talking about human beings. Schools across my constituency are affected by this. If they have to wait another year to open these classes, it will create an even greater backlog as there will be even more students driving the list next year and students will be taking up places in the school without the support they need. That is the important thing. This is a retrograde step. Do not get me wrong. It is hugely welcome that the Department has put in 399 new classes this year, but the demand exists for more and we need to provide those places, particularly where those commitments were made and those expectations were created. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  I restate that in excess of 28,000 children are now being supported in special schools and classes. The number of special classes has increased by 100% since 2020. It is the statutory responsibility of the NCSE to work with schools to provide sufficient special education provision each year. As I outlined, budget 2025 provides funding for 400 new special classes - up to 300 additional special school places. The NCSE has announced the location of 399 of these in April, which is much earlier so as to give information at an earlier period in the year. This has provided much-needed clarity to parents as a result. Any schools not sanctioned this year will remain as potential options for future years when demand requires classes to be established. The Department and the NCSE are looking to the 2026-2027 school year and will continue to monitor the need for additional special school provision based on demand. If the Deputy has any particular query about the specific school or children, the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Moynihan, will be more than happy to follow up directly with him as he is not here today. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_53","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Overseas Development Aid","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-08\/debate\/dbsect_48","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_48","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_53","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I want to raise an issue that is of significant concern to me, the Green Party and many Irish people, namely, the impact of the highly politicised attack on overseas aid by the US Government. All of us in this House will be aware of the extreme and really quite extraordinary steps taken by the US Administration, in particular the almost slapstick efforts by Elon Musk to shut down wholesale entire federal agencies or strip away funding from what is deemed to be ideologically opposite to the Administration's agenda.  We saw how fabricated the whole casus belli was when we heard Karoline Leavitt single out a programme here in Ireland, supposedly funded by the United States Agency for International Development, USAID, as a \"DEI musical\", as if it funded actors to sing on stage about equality themes. I spoke at that event in the US embassy and, of course, it was in no way similar to what Ms Leavitt described.  Political theatrics aside, there are the most serious life and death consequences to what is happening. We in Ireland and the European Union should not be standing by impassively. The effective shutting down of USAID and the freezing of its significant aid and development budget has put hundreds of thousands of lives at risk, including the lives of many children.  To give a few examples, the freeze in humanitarian assistance in Sudan has led to the shuttering of over 1,100 communal kitchens that were set up to help those who have been left destitute by the civil war in that country. In Congo, the aid group Action Against Hunger will stop treating tens of thousands of malnourished children from May. The charity has said that will put those children in mortal danger. In Senegal, the biggest anti-malaria project has closed. It distributed bed nets and medication to tens of thousands of people. In Yemen, 220,000 displaced people will lose access to critical maternal healthcare, protection from violence, rape treatment and other lifesaving care, according to the United Nations Population Fund.  There are thousands of similar USAID programmes that have been paused indefinitely and the impact for the world's poorest communities cannot be overstated. USAID has effectively shut down and 80% of its operations are suspended indefinitely. Some \u20ac8.2 billion in funds remain frozen and are likely to remain so. Regardless of the outcome of legal challenges, even if the executive order is overturned and the exemptions for lifesaving programmes are carved out, with a Republican Congress in power for the next two years, it is fair to say that these cuts are here to stay.  The impact is being felt here, too. GOAL received \u20ac103 million annually from USAID, which was its largest donor. It has had to lay off 930 people, which is 30% of its global workforce. Concern received \u20ac53 million annually. It has had to make 400 staff redundant. Tr\u00f3caire received \u20ac1.3 million each year and Self Help Africa received \u20ac300,000 per year.  We are faced with this appalling and utterly unnecessary impact. In light of that, the Irish Government must step up. We must urgently signal that we are prepared to increase our overseas development aid, ODA, budget significantly to try to offset some of the impact. We know that hundreds of thousands of lives are being put at risk. We must work closely with our EU neighbours to try to scale up an emergency fund that can have a truly global reach and ensure the impact of the US retreat from supporting the most vulnerable on our planet is lessened. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I have a reply to read on behalf of the Minister but the Deputy knows what the Minister would say. I want to talk as someone who held the job. There is only one disagreement I have with what the Deputy has said. He said that hundreds of thousands of lives are at risk. I think it is millions. I have seen these issues at first hand. I have travelled across Africa. Irish Aid and our NGOs do an incredible job. The scale, breadth and depth of what USAID was doing on the ground was one of the largest operations in the world, if not the largest. It was unmatched. The absolute devastation of USAID, and the impact it will have on the countries the Deputy so eloquently mentioned in his contribution, cannot be overestimated. It is one of the harshest cuts that the US Administration has introduced. It does not receive enough attention on a global basis because of what else is happening but it goes right to the heart of those people who will pay the price. They are the poorest children and people in the poorest countries across the world. The Irish Government is conscious of that. We are going to work with our NGOs and the UN partnerships we have.  We are not in a position, and very few countries in the world are in a position, to make up the damage that has been done by the cuts to USAID. However, I know the commitment is there, having worked in the Department and seen that commitment in the staff and people within the Department, on the Irish Aid side, and in the incredible work being done by our NGOs. As the Deputy rightly mentioned, many people give tirelessly of their time, lives and careers to work in this space that includes some great agencies, including Concern and GOAL, etc. To see those jobs being lost and wiped out is devastating. I hope that collectively, on a European and international level, through UN involvement, and in working to see what we can do within our own Government commitments, we can, in whatever way possible, work with the agencies to have an impact on what is happening. As I said, I do not think any country would ever be able to compensate for the devastating impact of what has happened to USAID. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I thank the Minister of State. I am pleased he was able to bring his own experience within the Department and his passion for this issue to his answer. Around the world, people are deeply disturbed by the callous actions of the US Administration in cutting support for the most vulnerable. Bill Gates today accused Elon Musk of killing the world's poorest children by leading this set of actions.  There are knock-on consequences. We see others emboldened by this. We have seen the disappointing decision of the UK Labour Party Government to retreat on its own aid commitments.  We know it is not a matter of filling in the money that has been lost. Ireland has a structured ODA system. We support particular countries and types of projects. I am not proposing we interfere with that in any way. However, the scale of the impact of the cuts mandated on USAID is so severe that we cannot just wait until next year's budgetary allocation. It is not that Ireland can make up that difference of $8 billion. We cannot do that. However, we can, working with the European Union, look to start a fund to try to bridge some of that gap. We need to look at those projects that are most essential. We must look at the diseases that are going to spiral out of control because the teams that are currently funded by USAID have had to withdraw. I urge the Minister of State to work with the European Union and like-minded countries to bring together the necessary funding so we can go some way towards bridging the gap. Let us lead by example by putting additional money on the table and do what we can to protect the most vulnerable on our planet. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Brophy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Colm-Brophy.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Brophy  I thank the Deputy. He makes the valid point that while what has happened with USAID is the most impactful, we have also seen impacts in the range of countries that have reduced their aid budgets, including the UK. At the heart of what we do has always been the process of reaching the furthest behind first. We target our ODA on that basis. The Government is committed to that approach and I reaffirm that it remains at the heart of our approach. There have been annual increases to our ODA. We are working towards a target of achieving 0.7% of gross national income. That commitment remaining at the heart of where we are and our approach to our development aid programme is welcome and important. I know that involves an ongoing determination on our part to ensure we maximise our relationships with our European and international partners and our NGOs to ensure we can get the best benefit from spending our money. We commit to increasing our support for our own programme and working towards that 0.7% target. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 6.49 p.m. go dt\u00ed 2 p.m., D\u00e9 M\u00e1irt, an 13 Bealtaine 2025."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 6.49 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 13 May 2025."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Overseas Development Aid"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2025-05-08"},{"contextDate":"2025-05-07","debateRecord":{"debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2025-05-07\/debate\/dbsect_2","containsDebate":true,"counts":{"speakerCount":7,"speechCount":29},"debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' 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