{"head":{"counts":{"debateCount":6,"resultCount":6}},"results":[{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-07-06T12:07:26+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-07-02","counts":{"contributorCount":134,"divisionCount":0,"debateSectionCount":40,"questionCount":32,"billCount":3},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Humanitarian Aid","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_3.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  At the outset, and on a separate manner, I take the opportunity to condemn strikes on Kyiv last night resulting in the loss of over a dozen citizens, and perhaps more. It is another example of the war of aggression that is taking an enormous human toll.  The first question I have is in relation to the blockade of Cuba. The humanitarian situation there escalates by the day. The impact that it is having on the ordinary people of Cuba, particularly children and those who are sick, is profound. Clearly, a resolution is needed. The Government needs to make statements. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Helen McEntee)  I, too, condemn the attacks last night. It makes it all the more important - in terms of our focus and priority during the Presidency - to ensure that we do everything possible, not just to support Ukraine but also to maintain pressure on Russia. That is something we very much communicated and engaged directly on with President Zelenskyy yesterday.  I thank the Deputy for raising this question. As a country, we are monitoring the humanitarian situation in Cuba.  I very much echo the UN Secretary General's concern at the growing humanitarian crisis in the country. Our position on the embargo imposed by the United States on Cuba is long-standing and clear. We have consistently voted for UN resolutions calling for the ending of the embargo, most recently last October at the UN General Assembly. Restricting the flow of basic goods, and particularly fuel, to Cuba heightens the suffering of ordinary Cubans. The Deputy's colleague discussed this last night. Due to the lack of fuel, we can see the impact it is having on the ability of farmers to be able to tillage, plough and deliver food. The impact that is then having on cities and people more generally is becoming more profound and something that we are extremely concerned about.  Ireland provides ongoing humanitarian assistance directly to Cuba through funding to global positioned humanitarian funds, which work with local partners to deliver assistance. These include the United Nation's central emergency response fund, the International Federation of Red Cross, IFRC, and the Red Crescent Societies' disaster relief emergency fund and the START Network. In the past year, the central emergency response fund has allocated \u20ac6.4 million to UN agencies in Cuba. The IFRC has allocated \u20ac1 million and the START Network has allocated \u20ac270,000 to Care International for its work in Cuba. Ireland has also committed \u20ac100,000 through the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations to support Cuba to build capacity and develop a strategy to respond efficiently to extreme events, such as hurricanes. Ireland will continue to engage with its humanitarian partners to assess needs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Like other issues, the humanitarian aid is necessary but more than that, a political solution is needed. It is clear that US sanctions are pushing the people of Cuba to the brink. Children are dying because doctors cannot access essential medicine and supplies. This is not just what I have said but UN human rights chief, Mr. Volker T\u00fcrk, and the UN have called the immediate lifting of the United State's sanctions against Cuba. Mr. T\u00fcrk said, \"The fuel restrictions imposed since early 2026 and the recent tightening of sanctions, taken together, are directly harming Cubans, especially the most vulnerable.\" The daily blackouts are now exceeding 20 hours. Conditions are rapidly deteriorating. The UN Human Rights Office has cited frightening figures. Infant mortality has doubled to 9.9% per 1,000 births. Childhood cancer survival rates have fallen from 85% to 65% and essential medicines are available at only 30% of normal supply levels. The key point is that although the Government is voting for these resolutions, how is it raising this in international forums to ensure movement? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  As time previously did not allow, I wish to stress that the European Commission is providing financial support. For all the reasons the Deputy outlined, it is important that humanitarian aid and support is provided. There is \u20ac2 million in aid in response to the crisis currently. That follows \u20ac4 million of EU funding approved as a regional allocation to the Caribbean, which was primarily allocated to the response in Cuba. In 2025, almost \u20ac6 million was provided for disaster preparedness and emergency response. A twin approach is needed. As the Deputy said, it is about providing that direct humanitarian assistance but also making sure this does not fall off the political or international agendas. I understand Cuba has requested an additional debate at the UN General Assembly on 7 July next week due to the escalation of measures that have been taken by the US in recent months, as well as threats of military action. While this is strictly procedural and it is to vote on whether there will be a further debate on this, we will be voting in favour on 7 July that we would have a wider discussion on this, so we can discuss and assess the current humanitarian situation and that we can use our position within the UN and our voice to call for this type of embargo and these types of sanctions to be lifted. As the Deputy said and we all agree, the main people who are suffering here are civilians and citizens who cannot access medicines, cannot get food to those who need it and cannot go about their daily business in the way the Deputy or I can. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  While there are commitments in terms of humanitarian aid, the difficulty is that the current blockade means that even with access to cash, the international payment systems have, to a substantial degree, been blocked off and, indeed, supply of energy is not being facilitated. Countries that would have previously supplied energy, including Mexico and so on, have now substituted to other forms of aids but, ultimately, the fuel is not getting through and, therefore, the system is grinding to a halt. Deputy Farrell said last night that there is food rotting in the fields because there is not the energy to harvest it. Ultimately, as well as cash, there is a need to ensure there is the ability for Cuba to receive energy, fuel, petrol and gas. At the end of the day, the international community has broadly taken a clear enough position with some exceptions. Ultimately, it is the United States that is responsible for this blockade. Has the Minister directly raised her concern in relation to this issue with representatives from the United States Government ? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  There are two things here. We need to make sure the European and international community are very clear in our view and position on this. Ireland has been very clear and taken a very clear position. Over a number of years, although we are discussing the fact things have escalated further, we have had ongoing dialogue and contact with the US on a range of international issues. That includes Cuba. We have relayed and conveyed our concerns directly with them. We have communicated our position on the US embargo, the impact of the embargo and the international response to the humanitarian crisis but also the importance of maintaining diplomatic engagement. Earlier on this year, there was progress made between the Cuban Government and the US. However, that then shifted and changed. This continuing approach has not changed. What we want to do is ensure that the dialogue and the structure are there. We have an EU-Cuba political dialogue and co-operation agreement. There are some calls for that to be reviewed or changed. We need to look at the structure that is there now. We need to engage directly with that government.  There have been concerns around human rights, democracy, government concerns and how we work directly with the government to address those concerns while at the same time engaging directly with the US. This is about dialogue. The only way this is going to be resolved is through dialogue and through the US engaging directly with Cuba but also the Cuban Government addressing and responding to some of the significant challenges that been identified by the international community. Our position through that co-operation agreement should be to ramp up and enhance that dialogue and engagement, particularly at a time where we are seeing devastating consequences for many people because of the sanctions or the blockade that has been imposed. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 2 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Humanitarian Aid"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Foreign Conflicts","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_4.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  We have often discussed the appalling conflict in Sudan - the greatest humanitarian crisis on the planet at this moment in time. Millions of people are displaced and hundreds of thousands have been killed. It is a situation that continues to escalate, particularly now in the Kordofan and Blue Nile states. There is a need to address the humanitarian crisis and to ensure the protection of civilians and humanitarian workers. Ultimately, what is required also is pressure to ensure that the ongoing flow of weapons, which continues to this day, and finance in relation to fuelling this conflict are addressed. It is important that this be a priority in terms of this theme of the Presidency. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Neale Richmond)  I thank the Deputy for consistently raising this issue in questions and debates and shining a light on what is the greatest humanitarian disaster currently happening on this planet.  The conflict in Sudan continues to have a devastating impact on the Sudanese people, particularly women and children. I am particularly alarmed by the Rapid Support Forces' offensive of the city of El Obeid. Following their appalling attacks in El Fasher last year, there is a grave risk of the RSF committing further mass atrocities. The warring parties must adhere to their obligations under international human rights and humanitarian law, including the protection of civilians and humanitarian workers. Civilians must be able to leave the city safely and all parties must ensure rapid, unimpeded and sustained humanitarian access.  On 23 June, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, signed a joint ministerial statement from Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway and the UK on the situation in El Obeid. The Ministers stressed that external support continues to sustain the conflict and called on those fuelling the conflict to cease. Those with influence must exercise it now to avoid further bloodshed. Ireland also continues to advocate for the expansion of the UN embargo to the whole country. The critical issue of humanitarian access and the need to remove bureaucratic obstacles to aid are at the heart of Ireland's diplomatic engagement on Sudan. I attended the International Sudan Conference in Berlin on 15 April. The EU and its member states, including Ireland, pledged over \u20ac812 million in humanitarian assistance to support the people in Sudan and to respond to the regional refuge crisis. Ireland will significantly increase our humanitarian assistance this year from over \u20ac14.3 million provided in 2025 to \u20ac21 million this year. Our funding will be channelled through trusted partners to reach the most vulnerable.  On 12 June, we launched a call for proposals from Irish agency partners working on the ground in hard-to-reach areas in Sudan. My Government colleagues and I are determined to ensure that this devastating crisis is not sidelined or forgotten. We will continue to ensure a sustained focus on Sudan during our Presidency. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  I am glad the Minister of State referenced El-Obeid. The moment in which the world paid most attention to Sudan was at the end of the siege of El Fasher when RSF arrived into that city and literally struck people down in the street with machetes. It was the kind of slaughter that was redolent of what happened in Rwanda. Tens of thousands of people were killed. It is difficult to get a clear sense of the loss of life, but it was absolutely enormous. Unfortunately, the world has begun to look away again at a time when, potentially, we face the same type of circumstances at El-Obeid. The latter is a significant city. Hundreds of thousands of people live there, many of whom are already internally displaced. Many of them may have left places such as El Fasher. It is vitally important to do whatever we can do to put pressure on to prevent a recurrence. I have referenced the role of the United Arab Emirates, UAE. The UAE is not the only country involved, but it is clearly a crucial one in terms of the supply of weapons to those involved in this conflict. That needs to be called out at both an Irish and a European level. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  In reference to El-Obeid, on 19 June, Fr. Youhanna Al-Amin, a Roman Catholic priest, was killed in an attack on Holy Cross parish church. On the same date, in another attack on an office and warehouse of a partner organisation of Tr\u00f3caire in South Kordofan, a guard working for the organisation was killed and a colleague wounded. The warehouse, which contained UNICEF medical and nutrition supplies, was looted. Tr\u00f3caire is an organisation familiar to all of us. We know that the work of Tr\u00f3caire takes place on a worldwide basis; it is not just located in Maynooth.  The depravity that happened in El Fasher and to which the Deputy referred is unfortunately spreading. We see that in terms of what is happening at El-Obeid. We also see the continuing need for a strong humanitarian response, which Ireland certainly has not been found wanting on, the need to expand the UN embargo, which we have talked about before, and the need to consistently raise this matter with partners.  I note the Deputy's reference to the UAE. As he knows, I have raised that matter with the Minister a number of times. I raised it with the Ambassador again just yesterday. I will continue to raise it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  The Minister of State might have seen a very troubling report in The Guardian in recent weeks regarding Nathaniel Raymond, an American human rights investigator from Yale University, who alleged that representatives of the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office in Britain told him there was significant private pressure from the UAE which meant that the UK would not publicly divulge information linking Ethiopia and the Emirates to support for the RSF, which was responsible for the atrocities in El Fasher, and that there had been an attempt to downplay the scale of death and human rights abuses. Obviously, I have no way of establishing the this, but the concern is that similar pressure and reticence exists across countries within the EU. I asked the Minister of State, and he has broadly agreed, that during its Presidency, Ireland needs to continue to raise this issue. Does he sense any movement or any greater willingness on the part of European countries to ensure that greater pressure will be exerted, particularly in the context of the supply of arms? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  Absolutely. Let us not mince our words. What is occurring in Sudan is the worst humanitarian disaster on the planet. There are acts of pure depravity being perpetrated. Rape is being used as a weapon of war on a scale that has not been seen for a long time. The Irish Government is absolutely committed to continuing to keeping Sudan at the top of the agenda. We have done this consistently at European Council meetings. We have done this through the UN, particularly at the UN General Assembly high-level week. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, has included it as an item for the upcoming Foreign Affairs Council meeting. I raised it at the most recent meeting of the development ministers. It will be discussed at the informal meeting of development ministers to be held in Dublin in October.  Unfortunately, Sudan is often a forgotten crisis for too many people. We know how what is happening is spreading across to the entire region and of the sheer scale of the numbers of those affected. Hundreds of thousands of people who have died, millions are being displaced and millions are facing hunger. This crisis is simply too grave and too big for Ireland not to use every diplomatic tool at its disposal to continue to highlight what is happening and to continue to exert pressure. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Foreign Conflicts"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Humanitarian Aid","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_5.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  The Democratic Republic of Congo has suffered incredible humanitarian situations, conflict and atrocities over the course of several decades. Millions of people have been killed in war. Unfortunately, on the back of multiple wars, civil wars and invasions, we are now seeing a deadly Ebola outbreak that is spreading quickly and that is also affecting Rwanda This is all happening against the backdrop of the conflict to which I refer. Does the Minister of State agree that there is a need for a ceasefire in order to ensure that there can be humanitarian approach to mitigating the impact of the Ebola outbreak on the region? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  I am very grateful to Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire for raising this issue. The Government remains deeply concerned by the security situation in the eastern part of the Democratic Republic of Congo. Some progress has been made in the peace process facilitated by the United States, Qatar and the African Union, but the situation remains a matter for very serious concern. We join calls on all parties to respect ceasefire agreements and engage in a process to attain a sustainable peace. All sides must respect their obligations under international humanitarian law and ensure unhindered humanitarian access. These are critical factors in enabling an effective response to the Ebola outbreak in the eastern part of Democratic Republic of Congo.  In the context of the Ebola outbreak, to date far in 2026, Ireland has provided \u20ac3 million for the WHO general programme of work. A sum of \u20ac2 million has been approved for the WHO contingency fund for emergencies, which released \u20ac3.3 million to support government responses in Democratic Republic of Congo and, crucially, Uganda. Ireland\u2019s NGO partners have also drawn down contingency funding and accessed items from our humanitarian stockpiles. Democratic Republic of Congo is one of the top recipients of Irish humanitarian funding. Between 2020 and 2025, Ireland contributed over \u20ac30 million in humanitarian assistance for Democratic Republic of Congo.  The Minister, Deputy McEntee, discussed the conflict and the Ebola outbreak with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Democratic Republic of Congo, Ms Th\u00e9r\u00e8se Kayikwamba Wagner, during her visit to Ireland in May  Ireland recognises the importance of the EU\u2019s voice being heard in respect of this grave security and humanitarian situation. We support efforts to agree further EU action to respond to the crisis. EU Humanitarian Commissioner, Hadja Lahbib, visited the region in February for meetings regarding the conflict and in June to discuss the Ebola outbreak. Again, we will closely follow these issues during our Presidency of the Council of the European Union. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  The scale of death and suffering in recent decades in the Congo has been very under-reported. Some estimates suggest that about 6 million people have died since 1998 due to conflict. Conflict in the region has rarely been in abeyance, but it spikes during certain periods. The conflict currently is between the Congolese Government and the Rwandan-backed M23 rebel group. It is primarily taking place in Kivu state in the east of the country and in surrounding regions.  Ebola is a horrific and highly transmissible disease. It has already claimed hundreds of lives. It will claim thousands of lives if it continues to spread. The concern is that it will escalate further and that, as a result of the conflict, the authorities will struggle to get to grips with it. Will the Minister of State outline the Department's assessment of the current situation in terms of the outbreak and the extent to which the conflict is adding to it? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  We can all agree that the history of this part of Africa, from the pillaging days of King Leopold, to the decades after, to the time when Irish peacekeepers lost their lives there and to the days of Zaire and beyond, has been absolutely horrendous and has been marred by conflict, disease and cruelty. To be quite frank, there was cruelty on the part of western partners as well as domestic actors. Unfortunately, this is the latest chapter of a very vicious conflict that is compounding the escalation of an outbreak of a disease that many people cannot fathom the severity of.  The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control assesses the infection risk for people living in Ireland and elsewhere in the EU to be very low. However, as of 28 June, Democratic Republic of Congo had reported 1,274 confirmed cases, including 360 deaths. In Uganda, 20 confirmed cases have been reported, including deaths. One confirmed case was reported in France on 24 June. This outbreak continues to spread.  The deteriorating condition of health systems due to the removal of development assistance is certainly having a serious impact and gives rise very real concern, not just on the part of the Irish Government but also among many of our partners. The CEOs of Oxfam Ireland and Tr\u00f3caire have written about this very recently. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  That brings me to my next question. In his reply to the previous question on Sudan, the Minister referred Tr\u00f3caire's connection to Sudan. Is he aware of any Irish aid agencies which, either directly or through sister organisations, have a presence in Congo and whether they are affected by or involved in this in any respect? The violence that is currently happening has displaced hundreds of thousands of people and forced them to leave their homes. Obviously, that is disrupting access health care. Humanitarian workers and officials need access to provide that support now more than ever. A ceasefire is a medical necessity and is urgently needed in order to support the provision of life-saving care, protect health workers and strengthen security, especially in hard-to-reach areas like the Ituri province and other remote areas.  We are asking the Irish Government to do all it can at diplomatic level and through the EU to make all efforts to ensure that an immediate ceasefire is brought about. Is there an Irish connection with or presence of any kind in the region. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  I am very grateful to the Deputy for referring to the very real Irish connection, not just with Democratic Republic of Congo but also with the wider region, including Uganda and neighbouring countries that are often responsible for many of the impacts of these crises, be they conflicts or humanitarian crises. There are over 2,000 Irish citizens in the broader region. Most of them work in the aid sector. Tr\u00f3caire has a significant presence there. The CEO of Tr\u00f3caire was due to travel there until very recently. He was in Rwanda during the Easter period. Oxfam has a very real presence in Democratic Republic of Congo as well. It is one of Ireland's largest humanitarian partners outside of our programme countries. Within Irish Aid, we have a very strong history of working in this region.  I referenced the role of Irish peacekeepers - missionaries also played a part - over the period. This is a conflict and a humanitarian disaster that we absolutely will continue to keep to the fore at European level, at bilateral level and, more broadly, through our work with the United Nations. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 5 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Humanitarian Aid"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 6 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Middle East","counts":{"speechCount":9,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_7.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  The questions in this grouping are in the names of Deputies O'Gorman, Heneghan, Gould, Neville, \u00d3 Murchu, Gibney, and O'Hara. We will start with Deputy O'Gorman and then see who turns up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  As this House prepares to consider Report Stage amendments to the Government's version of the occupied territories Bill, with the Green Party and other Opposition parties seeking to include services within the Bill's ambit, is it not time for the Government to be frank and admit that the barrier to the inclusion of services is not a legal one but, rather, is based on a political decision taken by the Government? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 8, 20, 38, 60 and 65 together.  I thank the Deputies for tabling these questions. The Government approved the text of the Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2026 on 26 May. The Bill was published on 29 May and was introduced in D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 10 June. It is very much my intention that the legislation will complete the parliamentary approval process by the summer recess. I thank Deputies for working with me to ensure that we achieve that outcome. I am very conscious of the strength of not just interest but the feeling and the desire among members of this House when it comes to this Bill and what it is that we all want to achieve. I think we are all united by a desire to take action in response to the actions by the current Israeli Government that breach human rights and the unilateral actions that completely undermine the viability of the two-state solution. This has been evident during the debate in this House and when Committee Stage was debated at two meetings of the select committee last week. We will debate the Bill further next week and the following week.  The Bill fulfils our commitment as set out in the programme for Government. Most importantly, it will contribute positively to our compliance with our international legal obligations. This was identified in the ICJ's advisory opinion of 2024 in which it very clearly stated that obligation on states to take steps to prevent trade or investment relations that assist in maintaining the illegal situation created by Israel in the occupied Palestinian territories. There are now almost 1 million illegal settlers in the occupied territories. These are not small villages or settlements, as we often think. There are almost 1 million people that have been placed illegally in settlements. This is absolutely impacting any possibility of a future two-state solution.  On the issue of services, I have set out, most recently on Committee Stage last week, that the Government has a responsibility to ensure that any legislation introduced is legally sustainable, enforceable in practice and capable of withstanding challenge. I was asked last week who would possibly challenge legislation like this. The answer is that simply anybody can. There is an obligation to ensure that any legislation that I or this Government introduce is not open to challenge immediately. This is particularly relevant in relation to services.  The Government sought and received advice from the Attorney General regarding the legal permissibility of an EU member state introducing restrictions relating to trade and services with a third country or a territory. There are two principal issues in relation to services, namely the legal basis under EU law and the practical challenges relating to the implementation and overall enforcement of this legislation. In the case of goods, a public policy exemption exists within the relevant EU framework governing imports. This was highlighted in the ICJ's ruling in 2024. It allows member states to adopt restrictions for public policy reasons. However, there is no equivalent broad public policy basis in EU law in relation to external trade in services.  Trade in services also differs fundamentally from trade in goods. Services are digital, they cross borders, they are intangible in nature and operate across multiple legal and regulatory frameworks, creating significant implementation and enforcement challenges. Introducing legislation that lacks clarity as to how it may be implemented or enforced is not something that Government does. We need to be conscious of that.  The Government must also ensure also that measures adopted are not only politically meaningful but also legally defensible and practically enforceable, as I have said. For those reasons, the Government's approach is to proceed with measures that can effectively be implemented and sustained in practice. I have made no secret of saying that we have also taken into account the possible implications for our own economy here, but that is not the main factor. I want to be very clear on that. We have had clear directions or indications from the US and other states. However, that would apply to any legislation being brought forward. I am very clearly bringing forward legislation. I want to ensure that this is enacted before the summer recess. Most importantly, I want to ensure that we can fulfil our ICJ commitments more broadly by ensuring that the EU moves as one.  I believe that the EU has not done enough and I do not believe that we have been strong enough in our response. That needs to change so I have been advocating for a number of months now that the Commission would bring forward stronger proposals than those on the table, but also proposals that we know might actually pass a vote. The suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement was proposed by the Commission last year. Unfortunately, there was very clearly not a consensus, which is what is needed to vote specifically to suspend the agreement. What I and my counterparts from a number of member states have advocated for is that there should be a ban on trade within the illegal occupied territories. This is something that can be voted on through the Trade Council , by means of qualified majority voting, QMV. For those who are not aware, QMV requires 55% of the overall population of the voting member states. Depending on what way states vote, it can differ depending on the matter being voted on.  I advocated for the Commission to bring forward these proposals and am pleased to say that at the most recent Foreign Affairs Council meeting, a commitment was finally given by the Commission to bring forward proposals before the next meeting. For our first Foreign Affairs Council as President of the EU Council the Commission has agreed to bring forward proposals, which we will discuss, and my objective is that we would debate them.  The reason services are not included in the legislation is because the legal basis is not the same as that relating to goods, and how it would be implemented is not clear. All of us believe that for the EU as a whole to respond collectively, we would legally have that basis. It would also have a greater effect in actually changing the Israeli Government's actions. Ultimately, that is what we are trying to achieve here. Whether it is recognising Palestine, whether it is the case that we are taking with South Africa in respect of the genocide, whether it is the work we have been doing to provide support in respect of the humanitarian catastrophe or whether it is the situation in Lebanon and the West Bank that we have raised time and again, everything that we are doing is to change the actions of the Israeli Government. The Israeli Government is heading in one direction and one direction only. By taking action at EU level, we will have a greater impact. That is the objective.  I fully appreciate the position of all Deputies present. I feel as strongly as they and other Deputies do about this matter, having visited the region and spoken to so many people and families on the Israel-Gaza border - I was not able to get into Gaza when I visited - who were on the outside and who wanted to get back in to see family and friends. I also spoke to those delivering aid and food.  The situation on the ground is not acceptable. It is not acceptable that the EU has not responded in a strong enough way. That is why we need the EU to respond collectively, which is what I have been advocating for while at the same time tabling the legislation that is going through the Houses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  The Minster spoke about the House being united by a desire to act, and that is true, but it is united by a desire to act effectively. The deep concern is that what is being proposed and what we will be voting on next week is not effective. When the Attorney General's original advice came in July 2024 on foot of the ICJ opinion on Frances Black's Bill, no distinction was made between goods and services in that detailed piece of legal advice. That distinction only arose in the programme for Government that was signed in January 2025.  The argument that there is a public policy justification to limit goods but not services does not stand up. There is a clear provision within EU law where member states can make decisions in relation to third states on foot of public policy. That distinction does not stand up and is not based within case law. It is a weak argument and deeply unconvincing, and we will investigate it further next week. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I have to agree with Deputy O'Gorman. Everyone in this House accepts the fact that Israel has been involved in genocidal and criminal actions that are unforgivable, whether we are talking about Gaza or the continuation of huge settlements that will break any possibility of a future Palestinian state. I have stated it many times that this is obviously what Benjamin Netanyahu wants to do, Sometimes, there can be an over-focus on Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. They are who they are and what they are, but he is the guy who put them in government.  The fact is that it is hard to see not including services in the occupied territories Bill, OTB, as being anything other than a sop to some of the pressure from America. We have to follow it further. In relation to the EU-Israel Association Agreement, will there be a vote at the Foreign Affairs Council? Will we be able to deal with the trade element of the EU-Israel Association Agreement, which is beneficial to Israel and utterly disgraceful at this point in time? I accept that the Government has been forcing this issue, but we need to see action. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I disagree with Deputy O'Gorman when he says that it is not effective because over the last number of months, I have seen a number of member states advocating for a stronger response. Last year, when there had not been any kind of a ceasefire, more member states had started to change their positions, and that is why we had the suspension of the association agreement put on the table by the Commission as a possible option for member states to vote on. At that stage, a ceasefire was agreed, but we all agree that the ceasefire is somewhat in name only. While it has provided some relief, there are still people being killed every day and the humanitarian catastrophe has continued to worsen.  The effect it is having is that a number of other member states are now bringing forward legislation. I regularly engage with my colleague from the Netherlands. My colleague from Belgium is bringing forward legislation and we know that Spain has. Slovenia was on that path, but with a new Government, it is unfortunately now moving in the opposite direction. Norway is also bringing forward legislation. All of this, and the response from the Commission, is having an effect.  While not bringing forward legislation, other members states are asking me about what we are doing and engaging with us on what we are doing and bringing forward. It is building momentum, and that is the objective here. When we were recognising the State of Palestine, we said that we wanted to do it with other member states because it would have a greater impact. The same approach is being applied here and that is why we have taken this decision now.  In terms of the legal basis, the 2024 ruling had not taken place at the time. Since then, it has given ground to the public policy argument when it comes to goods. Deputies can say that they do not believe that, but if it were the case that the US was the only reason that we were not doing this, then we would not be bringing forward legislation, full stop, because the US has been very clear that it does not support any legislation. That is not what I am doing here and not what the Government has agreed to do. We are taking a twin-track approach to this. We are bringing forward our legislation, which sets out a clear message that we do not agree with and are completely opposed to the Israeli Government and its actions, that we are working to comply with the ICJ ruling, and that we fully comply with it by making sure that Europe responds in whole. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  In her first set of remarks, the Minister said that there was a clear indication from the US in terms of its opposition to what we are doing, even the more minor approach that the Government is taking in the Bill. It is important to remember that, as well as changing in Europe, opinion is changing in the United States. This matter is not a fixed matter any more. You cannot win a primary in the Democratic Party now if you get funding from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, AIPAC, and if you take a pro-Israel line. We saw a long-standing congresswoman lose in Colorado earlier this week because she was seen as too closely aligned. Even in the Republican Party, things are changing as well.  My concern is that this Government is allowing fear of Trump's position on Israel to dictate our approach to the OTB. In many ways, the Government is fighting yesterday's war, and it is going to allow a weaker piece of legislation through this House on foot of that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  What we are looking for is quite simple, namely, that the occupied territories Bill be as strong as it can, which obviously includes services. Given what Israel has done and continues to do, be it in Palestine or Lebanon - those who want a greater Israel seem to be at the forefront of politics there at this point in time - we can all see that it is a matter of us ensuring that we play our part.  It is good to see that others who should have moved faster are now moving or considering moving. That is what we have always spoken about. We talk about apartheid and Mary Manning, and we all accept that what was technically a small move by not handling South African goods and forcing it on Dunnes Stores and then others changed things because it was part of a wider movement. However, we need to see an occupied territories Bill that is as strong as possible and that we take as many people as possible from across Europe and beyond with us.  I want an update on where the Minster sees the EU-Israel Association Agreement, which is a blemish on the European Union as we take up the Council Presidency. It is vital that there be movement there and that we play our part in maximising the chances of dealing with it, even if it is only with the trade element. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I want to outline where we are at the moment. The Commission already has a proposal on the table that would suspend the EU-Israel Association Agreement. That was put on the table last year, but it has never been voted on. This is a vote that would require unanimity within the Foreign Affairs Council and, being honest, I do not believe there is that unanimity. There are a number of member states that have clearly said that they will not vote for this. That does not stop me or Ireland continuing to advocate for a vote on this or for member states to vote to suspend the association agreement.  We have also advocated for the trade element of the association agreement to be suspended at the very least. This would be far more significant than anything we, on an individual basis, would be able to do to impact and change the Israeli Government's actions. It would impact billions of euro worth of trade, and this is something that I advocated for.  What is also not on the table is a banning of goods within the occupied territories. I have been advocating, as other colleagues have, for this particular proposal to be put on the table for member states to vote on. This is a vote that could be put forward at the Trade Council because it is a trade matter. At our last Foreign Affairs Council meeting, the EU legal services gave us a clear legal direction that this was possible. There had been suggestions that we could not vote on this in terms of trade because of different reasons.  The EU legal services have been very clear that this is possible and that we could vote to suspend trade in the occupied territories. Following that discussion, I, along with at least 17 member states, if not more, asked the Commission to bring further proposals beyond the one that was currently on the table, which we know does not have a consensus. That includes the banning of trade in the occupied territories. The Commission gave a clear commitment that it would put forward proposals before the next Council meeting, which is on 13 July and is the first meeting that we will chair as President. I expect that we will get those proposals before then. There is no point in us getting them at the meeting when we have not had a chance to look at them, examine them and debate them ourselves, even within my Department and within the Government.  It is my ambition that we will be prioritising this during our Presidency, and I have spoken extensively to Kaja Kallas, the High Representative, about it. At every single Foreign Affairs Council, this will be on the agenda. We want to make sure that progress is made during our term and that we take stronger action. I cannot say this enough. I do not believe the EU has been strong enough on this. I do not believe that we have taken strong enough action. I believe that while we all agree that the only peaceful resolution for Israelis and Palestinians, and for the wider region, is the prospect of a two-state solution, that is becoming less and less likely the more we allow the Israeli Government to introduce illegal settlements into the occupied territories. I am advocating for this. I hope that by the next meeting, we will be able to take a stance or position on this. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Middle East"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Events","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_8.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  I believe these games should not go ahead. There has been a call to stop the games. The Palestinians have said that there should be a ban on all sporting engagements with Israel. There should be an outright boycott until such time as the people of Palestine are given the freedom, respect and rights they deserve. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I thank the Deputy for raising this issue, which follows on from the discussion I have just had with Deputies O\u2019Gorman and \u00d3 Murch\u00fa. National governing bodies, NGBs, of sport and international sporting federations, including the FAI, are independent, autonomous bodies responsible for the governance of their own sports, including the organisation of sporting fixtures. The Government and Sport Ireland have no role in determining or supporting the organisation of such fixtures, and I have not had meetings to discuss Israel-Ireland soccer matches. We respect the decision made by the FAI and will continue to work closely with it, through the Minister for sport, and engage with it on any matters of concern.  Of course, we continue to have significant concerns about the worsening humanitarian situation in Gaza, with intolerable conditions that are only getting worse. Israel must immediately remove restrictions on aid access and facilitate essential supplies and services to reach people across the Gaza Strip. More broadly, it must completely cease the actions it is taking in the West Bank and Lebanon. We are deeply concerned by the sharply deteriorating situation in the West Bank, in particular the massive expansion of settlements and the rampant and escalating settler violence, which continues in an atmosphere of impunity.  Our voice has been consistent in our calls for appropriate actions in response to Israeli breaches of human rights and democratic principles, and we are trying to use all the tools at our disposal - political, legal and diplomatic - to advocate for peace, accountability and an end to the Israeli Government\u2019s devastating policies in Gaza and the West Bank. In addition to supporting an EU-wide prohibition on trade, our long-standing position is that the EU-Israel Association Agreement should be suspended or, at a minimum, that the trade elements should be suspended. A number of member states have called for stronger collective EU action. I welcome the commitment by the Commission to bring forward a list of options for consideration at the July Foreign Affairs Council, which will take place on 13 July. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  The Minister said that Sport Ireland and the Government had no part to play. That is not accurate. In 1999, the then Government put off a match against Yugoslavia. The precedent has been set, and the Government should step in. It is very unfair of the Government to put all the blame on the FAI and let it carry the can. The FAI has previously made clear its position on playing matches with Israel, but now it has been pushed into a corner. The manager of the team has said: \u201c[I]t's unfair for the players to be in this position and us to be in this position.\u201d Seamus Coleman, one of the longest serving and most decorated Irish footballers, a man who leads by example, said:  My views are very clear on the fact that Nathan and the younger players, and Ireland, the fans, the manager, it should not have landed on our toes to answer questions about this. It should have been dealt with above us "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  The Deputy is right in that sense, but \u201cabove us\u201d is talking about UEFA. I fully accept that the FAI has pressed for the exclusion of Israel from UEFA, and it is its right to do so. However, there is a lack of consensus among UEFA members beyond that and, indeed, among international sporting bodies more generally in relation to the exclusion of Israel from international sporting competitions. Similar to the Council, where there is a very clear view from a number of member states, including Ireland, that we need to take stronger action and go as far as suspending the EU-Israel Association Agreement, there are other member states that do not agree with that. For that reason, we have not been able to reach a consensus.  I know that other countries, such as Russia and Belarus, have been excluded from international sporting events, but this is because there was a consensus among the international sporting bodies. I believe it is for the organisations, working with their parent bodies and the international organisations, to raise concerns and to be able to discuss this and vote on it. What is very clear, though, is that there is no consensus.  I believe views and positions are changing, given what we see from the Israeli Government with the introduction of the death penalty, which is very clearly targeting Palestinians; the worsening humanitarian situation; and the continuing escalation of settler violence. Even with the discussions on the ceasefire in Lebanon, there is clearly still activity happening on the ground, where citizens are not able to return home. I believe that things are changing and that the view of many countries, including the US, as we have heard, is shifting. However, we cannot as a Government tell UEFA or the other sporting organisations what they should be doing. I fully respect and take into account the position of our own sporting organisations and the view that they have expressed. I fully support their actions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  I will finish the quote from Seamus Coleman when speaking to Tony O\u2019Donoghue of RT\u00c9. He said: \u201cI am a dad, I am a husband, I've got a heart, I know the difference between right and wrong.\u201d The Minister said that the decision was with the FAI, not the Government. It is not. Deputy McEntee is the Minister. She is in the Government. It is up to the Government to make the decision and to take it away from the players and the FAI. A precedent has been set, but it should happen even if there was no precedent.  The Minister mentioned Russia and Belarus. That shows the double standards. She said that we had to have agreement between all of the other countries. No, we do not. The Irish Government needs to say \u201cNo\u201d. We are against genocide. We are against people in the West Bank being driven from their homes and murdered. As the Minister said in response to a previous question, there are over 1 million illegal settlers in the West Bank. There is a genocide in Gaza that continues to this day, with over 70,000 people killed, yet we are waiting for consensus. Consensus from who? The Israeli Government has so much power in its lobby that there will never be consensus. Ireland needs to lead the way. Ireland needs to say that these games must stop, and all games with Israel must stop. We should not be involved in any sport or any economics. We should say to them that unless the genocide stops and the Palestinians are given their rights, Ireland will not take part with Israel. We should do everything to ensure that no other European country, or any country in the world, does that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  Ireland has led. The Deputy might not agree with me, he might not believe that, but Ireland has led and we are leading. I would say that the FAI is leading in that regard as well. It has made its position very clear, and I support the position that it has taken. I support the views that it has, but that is the position it has taken. It is not the position that UEFA as a whole has taken. It is not for the Irish Government to decide what matches happen, where they happen or whether they are cancelled or otherwise.  That is a decision taken by the governing bodies. My colleague, the Minister for sport, will continue to engage with those bodies and organisations. Our objective as a Government is to make sure that the action we take at Government, Council and European levels has the effect we all want. Of course we oppose genocide. Any suggestion to the contrary is so off the mark----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  I did not say that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  Of course we oppose genocide and what is happening on the ground. I do not think we can be any clearer about what is happening. We have joined the South African case. There is a court process and international legal process when it comes to recognising genocide. We have joined that because we believe that is clearly the right thing to do. One only has to look at the UN report on children, which was very clear that children were being targeted. We want to ensure that the actions of the Israeli Government are changed and we do everything we can in that regard.  I have made my view on the position taken by the FAI very clear. There is no consensus at European level that would ban or stop Israel from competing in these games. It is then a decision as to whether our teams would pull out. It is not for me as Minister to tell a team that it should not play or what it should do. That has to be a decision taken by the sporting body and players in the organisation. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Events"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Irish Prisoners Abroad","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_9.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Daniel Tatlow-Devally faces trial in Germany due to allegedly being on the site of a German subsidiary of an Israeli arms manufacture, Elbit Systems, and allegedly damaging property. I raised this issue with the Minister's predecessor. The conditions of the trial and detention are of huge concern, not only to Mr. Tatlow-Devally, but also his co-defendants. He is subject to 23-hour lock-ins, has been denied phone calls with his family and has limited access to lawyers. There is huge concern about the safety and fairness of the trial and the conditions of detention. It is important that the Government be vocal on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 11 together.  This matter has been raised on a number of occasions by the Deputy and other colleagues. At the outset, I assure the Deputies that my colleagues across our consular teams and I are closely following the case and engaging with Mr. Tatlow-Devally and his family on a regular basis. My Department, in particular our Consulate General in Munich, supported by our embassy in Berlin and the consular directorate in Dublin, has been providing consular assistance since September 2025 when we were first notified of the case. Furthermore, I have raised this issue directly with the State Secretary at the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy, Dr. Thomas Steffen, when I met him in May.  A dedicated consular officer in the Consulate General in Munich has been assigned to provide consular assistance and support Mr. Tatlow-Devally and his family. Staff in the consulate, including the consul general and deputy consul general, have undertaken six consular visits to him in prison. The most recent visit was earlier this week on Tuesday, 30 June. These visits are an important opportunity to assess the conditions of the detention. I fully appreciate that the prison has a 23-hour lock-up. It is the same for all prisoners in the prison. At the same time, that is a substantial amount of time. The visits provide an opportunity for Mr. Tatlow-Devally when meeting with our team to raise any concerns about his treatment with us.  In turn, we have kept his family informed about these visits and remain in direct contact with them. I am not aware that he has been denied phone calls with his family. My last understanding was that there had been regular engagement and opportunity for engagement. Officials in the consular directorate of my Department and Munich are working to facilitate a visit to Mr. Tatlow-Devally by a number of Deputies. We have been advocating for and supporting him in whatever way we can in respect of engagement not just with the family, but also with others who wish to visit. We are liaising with the relevant German authorities with a view to obtaining the necessary visit permissions and will engage directly with Deputies in that regard. The decision as to whether to permit visits is one for the German authorities. It has been made clear to us that this is something that should be possible. We hope this would be followed through on.  My Department will continue to provide all appropriate consular assistance to Mr. Tatlow-Devally and his family. As I previously outlined, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations defines the parameters of consular assistance in international law, which is, in turn, reflected in my Department and our consular assistance charter. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and its embassies and consulates are precluded from intervening in the judicial and legal process of another country. However, when a citizen is on trial abroad, their rights and interests have to be represented, including by their defence lawyers, as I know is the case in this instance.  A number of trial dates have been set for the coming weeks. The last time we spoke about this in the House, dates had not been set and there was concern about that. Two hearings have taken place this week and further hearings are scheduled for tomorrow, 3 July. There will be subsequent hearings on 22, 24, 27 and 29 July. There are further dates out to January 2027.  My officials will of course continue to follow developments very closely. I have asked that they continue to keep me updated while ensuring that regular engagement continues with Mr. Tatlow-Devally and his family, whom I appreciate are under huge stress. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  At the heart of this is an increasing trend, not just in Germany, but in other countries as well, of using legislation initially intended for organised crime to prosecute climate activists and Palestine activists and, in several respects, dampen down political criticism and protests. There is a similar situation in Britain with regard to Palestine Action. When the relevant legislation was introduced 15 years ago, people raised concerns and asked whether it could be used to prosecute Greenpeace and so on. Those concerns were dismissed out of hand by the Ministers at the time. Lo and behold, political organisations are now being targeted by that legislation. We see the same here.  The conditions in which Mr. Tatlow-Devally is being held are not acceptable. I am sure the Minister will agree with that. There is a knee-jerk assumption that European countries will have fair trials, and that is fine - that is the baseline assumption in these institutions. At the end of the day, there is a concern about a fair trial. The Minister said she had raised this matter with the state secretary. What response was she given? What is Germany going to do to ensure there is a fair trial and decent conditions in advance of that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  All of the evidence suggests that an Irish citizen, Daniel Tatlow-Devally, along with four others, is being denied a fair trial by another European state. I believe the Minister has a letter from a senior counsel. The letter refers to the fact that no audio recording of what is happening is permitted or provided by the court, there is no official stenographer, and the defendants cannot bring their own stenographer and have been refused permission to engage a professional note-taker. The letter went on to say that interpretations were electronically transmitted to the accused in a way that prevented their representatives and the court from hearing what was being said and that these communications were not merely secretive and kept from lawyers during the hearing, but were not recorded, so they could never be subsequently checked by anyone. The letter also stated that there was no way for prosecution or defence lawyers, the court, human rights monitors or the Government to check for translation accuracy and no way for the defence to correct mistakes at any time. There are limitations in terms of the communication of the defendants with their lawyers. At the very least, will the Government send legal observers to the trial tomorrow and on 22 July? The State needs to be represented there to observe what is happening to an Irish citizen. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire will appreciate that it is not appropriate for me to comment on the type of legislation or charges that are being taken in another member state. We expect that any other European country would follow fair procedures and rules. That has to be a given and is exactly what I have raised directly with my colleague.  Concerns have been raised with us. In terms of the response, my colleague, the Minister, has said he would engage and relay our concerns or raise the fact that we had raised this particular issue. I appreciate that the conditions in the prison are strict. The rules apply to all prisoners, not just the individual whom Deputies have mentioned or those who were arrested with him. They are all confined to their cells for 23 hours a day. I am told he has access to a gym, prison library and reading materials, as well as there being televisions in prisoners' rooms. I appreciate that this is not an ideal scenario for anybody, but he is in a prison and the conditions are strict and apply to everybody.  I am very clear that we are keeping a very clear focus on the trial and engage regularly with the family. Our consular teams have also regularly engaged with Mr. Tatlow-Devally to make sure that the conditions he has been kept in our, insofar as is possible, are appropriate.  Obviously, when someone is in prison, there will be strict conditions applying, but we want to ensure he is being treated in the most humane and fairest way possible. That engagement will continue.  In terms of legal representation, any issues that may be raised directly relating to the trial are a matter for the legal team to raise. That is what is happening and there is a legal team working to support Daniel. I am keeping a close eye on the situation and have asked my officials to engage regularly with me on it as the trial, which is only starting, proceeds. We will continue to keep in regular contact with the legal team. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  The Minister said all prisoners experience the same conditions. In regard to telephone calls, I outlined my understanding of the situation. If it is not the case, I accept that. My understanding is that calls are constrained in terms of times when they can happen and there have been occasions when they have been denied. I will double-check that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I am happy to get back to the Deputy on that if it is the case. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  We can engage in correspondence. I might be mistaken but that is my understanding of the situation.  In relation to prison conditions and the situation for other prisoners, the question is for what reason those other prisoners are detained. Is it appropriate that Daniel Tatlow-Devally and his co-defendants are in a prison of this kind for damaging property? That is fundamentally the charge at hand but it has escalated because the authorities are using legislation that was intended for use against organised crime. That is the context, and the question is whether his detention under those conditions is appropriate.  The Minister said it needs to be a given that there be a fair trial. So many things hinge on that assumption. The question of whether countries have a fair trial system is part of the assessment process for new EU member states. Many regulations hinge upon it. However, what if it is not a given? That is the fundamental point. That is why having a State representative in place to monitor the trial is important. Will the Minister agree to that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Fundamentally, I do not accept that the denial of the right of an Irish citizen to a fair trial is a matter just for his or her legal team. I just do not accept that. It is a concern of the State if an Irish citizen is, in effect, being railroaded through a show trial. The State needs to be represented by an observer at that trial to see what is happening. Deputy Boyd Barrett has been organising a delegation of representatives to go there on 22 July. Deputies Farrell and Duncan Smith are going, as are Lynn Boylan MEP and Senator Stephenson. I hope others will join them.  However, the State itself, and the Minister, need to be represented there in an observer capacity. The senior counsel I mentioned states in the letter I referenced:  It does not strike me from what I have seen that the trial is in conformity with either EU law or the European Convention on Human Rights. Obviously, the Government can take a different view but I do not see how that view can be properly formed other than on the basis of a first-hand observation since there is no independent record being created of what is happening. We need observers for the Irish State on the next occasions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I stress again that it is not appropriate for me as Minister to suggest or dictate where somebody should be detained. I appreciate that people have a view on the prison this individual is in and the conditions under which he is being kept. It is the same situation for all prisoners in that particular prison. It is not for me or anybody here to dictate or decide whether somebody is appropriately placed or otherwise, and nor is it appropriate to comment on the type of legislation under which the person is being charged.  If there is a sense or a view that the trial is not being conducted appropriately, we will respond accordingly. My officials, whom I have asked to engage directly with me on this, are keeping a very close eye on the situation. We are engaging directly with Daniel and his family. As we know, he has direct engagement with his legal team on this matter and a trial is due to start soon. I will monitor the situation and engage directly with my officials on it as things progress. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Irish Prisoners Abroad"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"EU Membership","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_10.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  In congratulating the Minister as she embarks on our six-month Presidency of the European Council of Ministers, my question seeks to establish what she feels can be done to expedite Ukrainian and Moldovan membership of the EU. I ask this while welcoming the fact President Zelenskyy was front and centre at the celebrations of Ireland's accession to the Presidency yesterday. However, we must remember that Moldova cannot be left behind. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I acknowledge the colleagues who attended the opening ceremony yesterday. I hope President Zelenskyy's presence has shown not just our own citizens but the rest of Europe and the world that we fully support Ukraine and intend, through our Presidency, to do everything we can to continue that support and to put pressure on Russia. That includes supporting Ukraine on its accession path. I believe, as I think we all believe, that it is the only trajectory for Ukraine. The country is already defending every single one of us in its defence of itself. In so many ways, Ukraine is already part of our European community. It is about making sure we do everything we can to support the process for enlargement. We had that discussion at our bilateral meeting with President Zelenskyy. We discussed a number of things but particularly Ukraine's accession and how we can work towards that over the next six months.  Enlargement is a priority for us during our Presidency. We all know the benefits Ireland has experienced from membership. It is important that we support through the accession process other countries that want to join the European community and the EU. Moldova and Ukraine are two of the current candidate countries. They both applied for membership in 2022 and opened accession negotiations in 2024. Last year's European Commission annual enlargement report indicated that Moldova made the most one-year progress of all candidates during the reporting period. The same report described Ukraine's progress as remarkable. The Commission has confirmed that both countries are technically ready to open all the negotiating clusters.  It was very welcome that the first clusters opened for both Ukraine and Moldova two weeks ago. I acknowledge our colleagues in Cyprus and the work they have done to ensure that progress was made. From my visit to Ukraine earlier this year and from meeting representatives of Moldova, I am conscious of the very serious efforts both countries have been making to meet the challenge of aligning their laws with the EU acquis under unprecedented circumstances. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  It is no wonder that Cyprus would be very sensitive to territorial integrity. As the Minister said, Ireland is committed to facilitating the opening of all remaining negotiating clusters with Ukraine and Moldova in the next six months. Enlargement is a merit-based process and, as recognised by the Commission, both Moldova and Ukraine have met the technical conditions for the opening of negotiations.  However, there were reports last week that, faced with renewed resistance from Hungary, the EU has been forced to change its plans and now aims to unblock two, rather than five, accession clusters with Ukraine and Moldova before the summer break. The suggestion is that the Union has scaled back its ambitions for Ukraine's accession talks and is now targeting the opening of just two negotiating clusters, not five, in July. That would be regrettable. The Minister fully appreciates how vital progress is to Ukraine in the context of the current conflict. She will also appreciate how equally vital it is to Moldova, which really reminds me of Ireland in the 1950s, that it not be isolated, that it move forward in tandem with Ukraine and that its membership be actively expedited. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  As I was saying, great efforts have been made by both countries, particularly by Ukraine in what are unimaginable conditions, to make the changes they are making. That is why we want to support them in the best way we can. It is why, when I was in Ukraine earlier this year, I met with civil society groups that are playing a key role in advocating for and bringing forward those changes as quickly as possible.  The Deputy rightly pointed out some of the challenges we will face. For some time, under the Government of Viktor Orb\u00e1n, we had significant challenges in reaching consensus to move forward on a number of supports for Ukraine, not least the \u20ac90 billion loan that was previously agreed by the Council leaders. That blockage has been removed and, thanks to the new Government under P\u00e9ter Magyar, we have had the opening of the first round of clusters. Unfortunately, a potential blockage or issue has now emerged in regard to the opening of the remaining clusters. We are ambitious to open all five during our Presidency. That might not be straightforward but it just needs engagement and political dialogue. We need to work closely with all 26 member states to make sure issues of concern can be addressed and that we work towards opening all the remaining clusters.  I would, of course, like to see both countries moving together. They started this process together and they have worked together on getting to where they are now. We want to work closely with both of them in order to open the remaining clusters.  As we all know, once the clusters are opened that is the start of another process and obviously that takes time as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  I think we are disappointed that the new government in Hungary is still causing some difficulties. I appreciate the need for sensitive negotiations with that new government so that it bring Hungary fully in line with European values, which would be very much supportive of this integration. The other matter is that there is a new government in Moldova, which has worked assiduously and has achieved great progress in preparing for EU membership. The issue of Transnistria, the occupied territory there, is a problem. Will the Minister assure us that she is and her fellow foreign ministers are conscious of this? Will she assure us that by continuing the occupation of Transnistria, the Russians are not going to be enabled to in some way frustrate the progress of Moldova moving towards full EU membership? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I am very conscious of the issue the Deputy has raised. Unfortunately, when we look at any of the countries on their path towards accession, nothing is straightforward for any country. Unfortunately, there are issues with individual member states and issues among those accession countries as well that still need to be resolved. That is why it takes as long as it does for a lot of countries. When I was in this role in European affairs ten years ago we were talking about Montenegro, Albania and other countries nearly being there. Now, ten years on, we hope to get Montenegro over the line later this year. We are working on the accession treaty. We hold the pen now for the next six months. We hope to close as many chapters as we can with Albania. Obviously, with Moldova and Ukraine we want to make as much progress as possible. We do have to work in consensus, and with all other countries to address concerns they may have, while at the same time supporting progress on the ground. Just because clusters have not opened, it does not mean the governments of Ukraine and Moldova cannot continue to make the reforms, whether in rule of law, civil areas and other areas, that need to happen, so that they are as ready as they can be. We will work to open as many of the clusters as we can, if not all of them, during our Presidency, and we will do that through consensus, working with all 26 member states and working closely with Moldova and Ukraine.  In terms of what this means for them, it is absolutely essential. In terms of our overall security and sending a very clear message to Russia that we fully support Ukraine and that it is part of our community, this is an important step in the process as well. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"EU Membership"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Northern Ireland","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_11.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  I thank Deputy Gould sincerely for bringing forward this very timely issue. Supporting the all-island economy is a priority for the Government. This continues to grow, with figures for cross-Border trade now at over \u20ac17.2 billion. The institutions of the Good Friday Agreement help us co-operate with and understand one another, North and South, east and west, for the benefit of all the citizens of these islands. Since the restoration of the institutions in 2024, the North-South Ministerial Council has met 49 times across different formats to facilitate practical North-South co-operation in a breadth of areas. The Department of foreign affairs also continues to engage with business and stakeholders on North-South issues.  The all-island economy is also supported by the Windsor Framework, which protects the gains of the Good Friday Agreement and provides certainty for people and businesses across the island of Ireland. It ensures that Northern Ireland retains access to the EU\u2019s Single Market for goods, and, crucially, avoids a hard border on the island of Ireland. The Government also invests in the all-island economy through the shared island initiative which is enhancing co-operation, connection, and mutual understanding. Since 2020, over \u20ac 1 billion has been allocated to a range of major cross-Border projects and programmes. Last week, the Government announced \u20ac377 million in shared-island funding, including for major infrastructure investments in transport, energy and health. The shared island initiative engages with all communities and traditions to build consensus around a shared future, regardless of whatever shape future constitutional change may take on the island, or between these islands.  The Government has always stated that in the event of a future referendum, within the consent provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, it will make all necessary preparations in accordance with the terms of the Constitution and the principles and procedures of the agreement. I look forward to working through some of these issues with the Deputy over the next few minutes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  The Minister of State spoke about all the necessary preparations if there is to be a referendum. It is nearly 30 years since the Good Friday Agreement. Now is the time to honour and commemorate the 30th anniversary by having these conversations. While I welcome Fine Gael's announcement about a blueprint for a unified Ireland, it is not a united Ireland. I recognise, however, it is a step in the conversation. Bringing forward a united Ireland is not just Sinn F\u00e9in's job; it is the job of all political parties and none. It is the job of all aspects of society to come forward with solutions. We want to engage with everyone - with unionists, loyalists, people of all different faiths and different politicians on the whole island. To move forward with a referendum on a united Ireland, we need to have the citizens' assembly. We are asking the Government to bring this forward. We will have Private Members' business in the D\u00e1il next week and that will be a vital part of it. We are asking to engage with all members of the Government to bring that forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  I will try to answer this as much politically as well as from a departmental and ministerial point of view. I acknowledge the Deputy's comments in relation to the T\u00e1naiste's announcement in recent days. The name of my party is Fine Gael, or The United Ireland Party. I have been speaking about this for my entire political career. I go back to Dr. Garret FitzGerald's book Towards a New Ireland from 1972 and his work on bringing about an Anglo-Irish Agreement over 40 years ago that gave Dublin a say. I participated at many meetings of Ireland's Future. Just last week our former party leader and iar-Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, spoke at an SDLP conference, which was very well attended.  I do not disagree with the principle of a citizens' assembly. I believe that we will not oppose the Sinn F\u00e9in Private Members' business next week. There were two motions in the last calendar year in the Seanad and the D\u00e1il that the Government did not oppose.  I believe a citizens' assembly should be held after the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has deemed that a poll is necessary. In that window, where the Secretary of State says a poll is needed and before that happens, we should have the citizens' assembly. We would use the workings of that citizens' assembly to make sure that when people go to vote in the referendum, there are two clear objectives. I am not looking to be confrontational or political about it but I fear that if we had a citizens' assembly now, there would 50% attendance and we would not have the richness of conversation as opposed having a citizens' assembly where people knew there would be a legally binding referendum and a vote. People would play their part and would know what they were voting on. That is my opinion on it but I would welcome a conversation on it, if that makes sense. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  Our Private Members' business next week will move forward the conversation on unity. It will provide that the Taoiseach publish a Green Paper on the means of consultation with the people on the entire island. This would mean the Government setting out ideas on our vision for health, education, public service and the economy. What it would really mean would be the Government outlining the steps we would see for a united Ireland and what it would mean to people, North and South. We are not trying to impose this on people. We are trying to start a conversation and we want people to engage.  I hear what the Minister of State is saying in relation to waiting for the Secretary of State but if we were to wait on the British, we would not be where we are now. We need to move forward, not in an adversarial way but to lead. This needs to be led by the Government. I hope the Secretary of State will come forward but if we are waiting for the British to announce a poll and then react, that is too late. We need to be working in advance. If we work in advance and have these conversations, we hopefully will bring people together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  I will finish on this. I know we will never get everyone to agree but if everyone feels they have been listened to and they are part of the conversation, they may think there is an opportunity to move forward. I believe the vast majority of people want a united Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  Just to clarify, it is not a matter of waiting for someone. It is the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. Ultimately, the responsibility to deem whether a border poll is necessary lies with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. That is just a legal fact. Deputy Gould and I might not like it but we cannot fight it. It is not a matter of waiting. In my opinion, it is a period to use those two years to learn from the lessons of Brexit and the Scottish independence referendum and identify the issues.  I look forward to speaking on Sinn F\u00e9in's Private Members' Bill next week from both a personal point of view and a ministerial point of view. The conversation has long since started - we all know that - but since the post-Brexit years it has stepped into a very different space for a lot of individuals on this island, who perhaps were not at that stage and have been facilitated in more non-confrontational aspects to do that. From my party's point of view, that is certainly what we want to bring forward. Our vision of unity will probably be different from Deputy Gould's vision of unity but that is okay, and that is something people need to realise in due course.  To go back to the key point of the all-island economy and the here and now, that is where the Government has the immediate responsibility to develop those very tangible links such as when Senator Conor Murphy, as the then Minister for the Economy of Northern Ireland, and I set up the first all-island trade mission. These are the sort of things we need to work on in the here and now. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 14 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Northern Ireland"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Overseas Development Aid","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_12.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  I have just returned from a visit to Nepal. It was my second visit to that absolutely wonderful country. However, it is a country afflicted by dire poverty, where 20% of the population live below the poverty line. We have seen in March of this year the election of a new Government that promises to bring radical change to a country where there has been an unsettled political situation for quite some time. It strikes me that Nepal is one country where leprosy still exists as an indication of real and dire poverty. What can we do to help? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  I am very grateful to Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl for raising an issue and a country that, perhaps, never receives the sort of attention it deserves.  The Government's international development programme, Irish Aid, works globally to support the furthest behind first, focusing the major part of our official development assistance on the world's least developed countries. Nepal is classified as a least developed country. We have a number of multi-annual commitments in place for assistance in Nepal, and funding levels are expected to stay largely stable for the duration of these commitments.  Through the main funding mechanism for Irish-based international development organisations, Ireland's civil society partnership for a better world, we are providing \u20ac270,000 annually for Action Aid Ireland\u2019s work in Nepal. This work addresses the structural causes of gender-based violence, promotes women\u2019s empowerment and leadership and helps address the impact of climate change.  Through the civil society fund, we are providing \u20ac300,000 to support the work of smaller Irish organisations active in Nepal. These include the Irish Red Cross, the Nepal Leprosy Trust and the Social and Health Education Project. I have met two of those in very recent months when we brought the organisations specifically working on leprosy together at the Irish Aid offices in Limerick. Their projects focus on promoting social inclusion as well as improving health and well-being for the most vulnerable, including people affected by leprosy. Capacity-strengthening supports are also provided.  Through our partnership with Misean Cara, which supports missionaries working to empower those left furthest behind, Ireland also provides support to education. In 2025, just under \u20ac94,000 in Irish Aid funding was allocated by Misean Cara for projects seeking to address school dropout rates among marginalised communities and children with disabilities in one of the most isolated districts of Nepal, as well as providing education on non-communicable diseases.  Through the embassy in New Delhi, which is accredited to Nepal, support was also provided to five smaller projects. These were focused on empowering people with disabilities, mental health, women and girls, and promotion of local economic growth through environmentally sustainable work. In 2025, total development assistance to Nepal through these channels amounted to \u20ac700,000. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  I thank the Minister of State for his response and sincere interest in this matter. It struck me when looking at this that 2,300 people migrate from Nepal every single day and 30% of the GDP of the country comes from remittances. There has been political chaos for a long time in a country populated by people of incredible dignity, who have an interest in education, who are committed to progress and peace, and there is a serenity about the people of Nepal that is quite something to behold.  Balendra Shah is the new Prime Minister. He is a young man of 36 years of age and a former mayor of Kathmandu. He promises to bring change but he will need support from countries like Ireland. Turning to our Presidency, I would appeal to see Ireland play a leading role during the course of our Presidency in encouraging Europe to do more. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  It is really important to mention that over the last number of years Nepal has, unfortunately, been the victim of a number of very serious natural disasters. In 2023, a 5.7 magnitude earthquake struck, killing 153 people and injuring 400, at which time Ireland, through the Red Cross and Red Crescent, contributed to an EU aid package of \u20ac2 million. In April 2015, a more devastating earthquake of 7.2 magnitude struck just north west of Kathmandu. It was the worst in 80 years and over 8,700 people died. In response, Ireland directly provided \u20ac1.6 million in humanitarian response.  I note the Deputy's comment that, following very real youth protests and what was a sort of Gen z movement, we saw in March the election of 275 members and a new Prime Minister, a man younger than me, from the national independent party. I actually met his predecessor this week last year in Seville. The undertaking, regardless of who the leadership comprises in Nepal, is that Ireland will continue to be a partner at a bilateral level and also, crucially, at a European level and there is a great opportunity for that in due course. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  I am delighted to see the Minister of State has such a sense of youth about himself. The thing that struck me as well about that recent election, when I was there to participate in a training programme organised by INTER PARES for new parliamentarians, was the huge number of young people, even younger than the Minister of State, who have been elected to that new parliament. The deputy speaker of the parliament is a 25-year-old lady who has never held any political office before.  To go back to my original question, can we please use our good offices to create some sort of system within Europe whereby Europe offers more genuine support to this wonderful country to help it make the progress that it is capable of making but which it needs support in achieving? Let us remember that this country still has the plague of leprosy in its diverse communities. They are living in the Himalayas, in valleys and mountains and in very dispersed locations. Can we please, through Europe, do more to help? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Neale Richmond  This will bring me to a broader section but I want to very much keep Nepal in the mind's eye because it is a key partner of the EU and one of the main areas where the EU provides supports is in the area of good governance, which would be of great support to the new, young parliament. Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl described issues in relation to migration, remittances and poverty. There are over 3,000 Nepalese citizens here in the Republic and only 40 Irish citizens in Nepal, who are mainly doing voluntary and missionary work in the aid sector.  It comes back to the whole area of development co-operation, which is an area completely under attack. We are living at a time when the EU and its member states represent over 50% of global development co-operation and if we throw in Britain and Norway, that rises to two thirds. That is due not just to the decision of the United States but to many other actors and that is having a direct consequence. Over the next number of months, there is a real weight on the shoulders of Ireland to develop huge progress on agreeing an EU budget, the multi-annual financial framework. Key to that is making sure that the ring-fenced commitment to development co-operation and humanitarian aid is supported and that that, in turn, will support countries like Nepal. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Overseas Development Aid"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Middle East","counts":{"speechCount":3,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_6","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_13.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  Despite Palestine fading somewhat from the headlines, the UN independent international commission of inquiry has found that Israel continues to commit genocide in Gaza by targeting children. All states have a positive duty to act to prevent and stop genocide, so what is the Department doing in reaction to this report and its findings? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Helen McEntee  I propose to take Questions Nos. 16 and 40 together.  Like the Deputy and everybody else who has seen this report or heard about what it contains, I am beyond concerned. The elements and the findings of the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory are absolutely appalling. I stress that because I know there have been attempts to suggest that this is some kind of targeted job, that there is an attempt here to undermine the Israeli Government or the Israel Defense Forces, IDF, or that facts have been made up. This is a completely independent inquiry on the Palestinian territory. It is the first such commission of inquiry report to focus specifically on children and it adds new evidence and analysis to previous reports. It is a significant piece of work and something we take extremely seriously. I want to stress that. I think all member states do and all countries should take it extremely seriously.  As I said, the findings are disturbing, in particular the finding that the Israel Defense Forces have deliberately targeted children. We have all probably seen footage or clips or heard accounts from doctors in particular, where there are children coming in with very specific injuries and where the view is very clear that they have been targeted directly. Importantly, and more horrifically, it suggests that post ceasefire, this action is still happening. It is absolutely devastating and has to be investigated further. We would fully support any further investigation by the UN or any other independent commission of inquiry in this regard.  Israel must respect international and humanitarian law, and this report very clearly shows that it is not doing so. Clear obligations exist, as set out under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. They must be adhered to. All state parties have to uphold the rights of children in armed conflict and this report very clearly says that is not the case. The report was the focus of a side event on 26 June hosted by the Palestinian mission in Geneva with Save the Children during the ongoing session of the Human Rights Council. We co-sponsored this event alongside Spain and South Africa.  The commission of genocide is ultimately a matter of law that must be determined by a court or a judicial body. South Africa has taken the case. I mentioned earlier that under the Genocide Convention, we have filed a declaration of intervention in that case specifically with the ICJ. We continue to follow the case very closely. We have also filed a detailed written submission with the ICJ as part of the advisory proceedings concerning the obligations of Israel in relation to the UN and other international organisations, as well as states, in the occupied Palestinian territories. We have vocally and consistently called for appropriate actions in response to Israeli breaches of human rights and democratic principles. We use all the tools at our disposal - political, legal and diplomatic - to advocate for peace, accountability and an end to the Israeli Government's devastating policies in Gaza and the West Bank. We fully support accountability for Israel's egregious breaches of international law.  To that effect, I have made it very clear in my engagement on this matter - and not just with the EU High Representative, Ms Kaja Kallas - that during our Presidency, this matter will remain firmly on the agenda. This is a matter in respect of which I believe the EU needs to do more. Our credibility is completely at stake, if not already somewhat on the floor, regarding this matter. We need to be stronger in responding to what are very clear international human rights violations. There is a report here that says children are being specifically targeted in a conflict and in a post-conflict environment. If this does not make other countries stand up and listen, then I am not sure what else will.  I have no doubt that at the meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council which Ireland will host as part of its Presidency on 13 July other member states will reference this. It is something I will be strongly highlighting in our discussion with the Commission, when it brings forward - and I am assured it will have them before that meeting - proposals on how the EU could potentially respond collectively to what is happening. I know it is specific to the West Bank but, as far as I am concerned, any of the actions we take are in response to the West Bank, the situation in Lebanon, the disastrous humanitarian situation in Gaza and all of these reports that suggest what we thought and somewhat knew was happening prior to the ceasefire is unfortunately still happening on the ground. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  Unfortunately, we are out of time. That concludes oral questions to the Minister for foreign affairs. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Middle East"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3 Roghchoiste - Message from Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  The Select Committee on Enterprise, Tourism and Employment has completed its consideration of the Industrial Development (Amendment) and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2026 and has made no amendments thereto. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3 Roghchoiste - Message from Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Technological Universities","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_16.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  Will the Minister carry out a full review of technological universities to ensure that they are reaching the targets set out for them when they were established? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy James Lawless)  Advancing the technological university, TU, and institute of technology, IoT, sector is a major priority for Government, and for me. This is evidenced by significant targeted investment over many years and demonstrates our commitment to balanced regional development, building research and innovation capacity and with it, Ireland\u2019s global competitiveness, all while increasing access to university education for more students and delivering it on a regional basis as the TUs are doing.  My Department has provided extensive funding and support to aid the TUs that are undergoing extensive and complex transformation programmes. Most recently, I announced allocations of up to \u20ac65.8 million under the targeted enhancement fund, TEF, to support the continued transformation and strategic development of higher education institutions in the technological sector and publicly funded specialist colleges. That TEF funding is to enhance that offering in terms of capabilities and everything from information technology, IT, systems to project management and human resources management, and make sure they are fully strengthened and given the capacity-building supports they require.  At this point, legacy management structures in the IoTs, have transitioned to new cross-campus executive university management structures in four of the five TUs. The predecessors in the IoTs have been amalgamated into cross-campus executive teams. The final one, South East Technological University, SETU, is in transition and is currently being assessed. These roles are critical in supporting the TUs to deliver the strategic missions.  Additionally, I expect to see further progression now that I have sanctioned a new professor grade for TUs, which I secured Cabinet approval for just last December. That will support the TUs in their engagement, education, research and innovation capacities. I have also distributed over \u20ac223 million in capital funding to the sector across a variety of programmes over the past term, and I continue to work on the metrics under the TU Act, working towards the ambitions to make sure they are an absolute success. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I am not sure if the Minister is familiar with the recent report published by two Munster Technological University researchers. When asked if Irish TUs are failing, they concluded that the Irish TU project has been characterised by financial pressure, the death of regional provision in higher education, mission drift and confused policymaking, and that it has failed to meet any key targets. I acknowledge a lot of this was carried out before the Department of further and higher education was even established but it is still important to reflect on the success or failure of the concept.  Reading the report, the Higher Education Authority, HEA, was set on forcing IoT mergers through impoverishment of smaller institutions, and that there was a drop of 38% in State funding. Academic staff issues were largely ignored. There was very little meaningful engagement. In their applications for TU designation, all consortia stated that they expected increased student numbers and all except Technological University Dublin, TUD, stated that they expected an extra increase over the short term due to TU designation but this bounce never came to pass. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I am aware of the report. I have read it. I should say that has not yet been peer reviewed. It is a draft report by two academics in, I think, Tralee that is in circulation . I am open to all feedback and suggestions, but I add the caveat that it has not yet been peer reviewed. Other academics I have spoken to do not think it will pass the peer review process, but that is open-ended.  It is a curious report in many ways. One of the claims it contains is to the effect that the planned amalgamation between Dundalk Institute of Technology, DKIT, and Queen's University Belfast is a system failure. I find that quite extraordinary, because I think that is a great, ambitious and exciting all-island university project. It depends where you are coming from and I think those academics may have a particular axe to grind. They are entitled to have that - it is their prerogative - but I certainly would not share all of the report's findings. There may be hitting some points but I think it is a curious perspective they have taken.  More generally, I would say that TUs are not failing. The number of students, including research students, at the TUs continues to grow. There might be ups and downs, as in any sector, but, widely, they are growing, and they certainly they continue to invest.  We have a number of exciting, new courses. For example, the new professional veterinary course will be offered in both Atlantic Technological University, ATU, and South East Technological University, SETU, from this September. I might come back on this point in the next round. There are many new courses coming on stream. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  As I said, this all started before this Department was created but there are a few outstanding questions. There is a difference in the salaries of TU graduates compared with those from the university sector. A total of \u20ac363 million was spent. Does the Minister think that represents value for money?  The Minister talked about research students, but there is a difference in this regard. Smaller institutions seem to be losing out while the larger ones seem to be gaining in some cases. That causes implications for the balance of power within the university sector and poses significant challenges to regional provision.  There are questions around fees for consultants. It is a massive issue, particularly when some consultants were appointed outside the procurement process. Some of them were former senior Government authorities, appointed to the very institutions they were responsible for regulating. A report on the whole needs to be looked at. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I am always open to feedback. The academics and authors of that report are entitled to their views, as are others. I just do not share all of their conclusions. As the Deputy said, the consultant spending was before my time. A lot of it was before the Department even existed. The TU sector on the whole has been an enormous success, however. We now have TUs up and down the country. We have regional universities in Letterkenny, Tralee and Waterford, places which never had university status before. There are many other locations as well. It is exciting for those regional areas and towns and their hinterlands.  I mentioned the veterinary course in ATU. That means that we now have veterinary students coming through from Donegal, Sligo and the north west who do not have to travel to Dublin or, even worse, Poland for their professional education. I was in Waterford recently launching the new SEAM lab, which is a material science facility as part of SETU. It will engage in exciting, leading-edge and enterprise-focused research. The TUs have been a tremendous success already, providing world-class university education in the regions, along with investment in research.  In respect of reviews, spending controls etc. the HEA has commissioned a review of both the technological university transformation fund, TUTF, and the technological sector advancement fund, TSAF. There are reports under way. We always have to ensure we are getting value for money, spending competitively and getting resources to meet our approach. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Technological Universities"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Third Level Fees","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_17.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  The summer break is ahead. I am sure many leaving certificate students are relaxing on a beach somewhere. Others have got jobs and are planning the year ahead. They are trying to figure out what they are going to do next year, how they are going to do it, where they are going to live, etc. However, what they want to know the most is the level of fees next year and whether it will be reduced. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I thank the Deputy. I wish all students sitting examinations the very best of luck, as well as all those students who are coming to an end of their secondary education, whether they are going to college, further education or elsewhere. Like the Deputy, I will not get much of a break. While this House breaks up in two or three weeks\u2019 time, I will host the European research Ministers the week after that. There are a number of engagements over the summer as part of the Presidency. We will all be busy in our constituencies as well. I hope those in this House get some break, however. It is important to get a chance to recharge.  While there are several hundred commitments in the programme for Government, every year, this budgetary measure seems to be the one that gets asked four or five months ahead of the budget process. No more than any Minister in any Department, I simply cannot write the October budget in June or July. However, I will engage with the Ministers in the Department of Finance and the Department of public expenditure on this. A budget Estimate package is being put together in my Department. I am working with my officials to devise it. It will focus on the cost of college and supporting students in every way I can. That can be multifaceted. While it can include fees, it may also include areas such as SUSI, student accommodation, cost of travel, cost of materials and a variety of other things, such as placements. We will be engaging on all of those areas. Certainly, it would be premature for me to make any prediction, good, bad or indifferent, as to the content of my budget package four months out.  I will recap on some of the measures I have introduced already because it is important to put them on the record again. In the previous budget, I was pleased to introduce the first ever permeant fee cut for students since free fees were introduced almost 30 years ago with a \u20ac500 permanent reduction. It replaced the transient, previous cost-of-living measures, which were only ever temporary and could not be relied upon year to year. The \u20ac500 reduction is here to stay. It has benefitted an estimated 108,000 undergraduate students and 14,000 apprentices. That reduction cost \u20ac55.4 million this year. It is baked in at the baseline. While I may well do more every year, that reduction is there to stay. It is not temporary like previous measures. As I said, going into the budget ahead, I will again be engaging on fees and many other items. While fees are extremely important for anyone who is liable to pay them, many families and students do not pay them at all because they are subsidised, either in full or in part, by the SUSI grant system. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I know people were happy with the reduction. It is swings and roundabouts as to whether the total level went up or down, but it is what it is. No one in this House can deny the challenges students face. Of course, there are students who do not pay because of SUSI. I appreciate that the threshold for SUSI increased, but there are students stuck in the middle. This is the challenge. We have heard of students sleeping in cars or dropping out because they cannot afford it. Some students are working almost full-time jobs to get through their college course. This is not what we want. As I have said before in this House, the love of learning is why we want students to go to third level, whatever course they decide to do.  Students who have just finished the leaving certificate or the leaving certificate applied have been under huge pressure. They need time to figure out who they are and what they want to do and discover what the future might hold for them. However, if they are under massive pressure during this time, they will not be able to do that. That will cause students to leave third level education, which will affect their self-esteem and all the different parts of their life. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I am committed to continue to reduce the cost of college and support measures, including fee reductions, wherever I can. Let us talk to the two cohorts the Deputy mentioned. Students sleeping in cars is an appalling vista. Of course, no student should be in that situation. If those students are paying fees, something has gone badly wrong. The only students who should be paying full fees \u2013 they are \u20ac2,500 because they have been reduced by \u20ac500 on a flat rate \u2013 are those students in households with an income above \u20ac120,000. If a student has a household income of \u20ac120,000 and is sleeping in a car, something is not adding up. I invite any student in that situation to engage with me. Alternatively, they can engage with the Deputy and she can bring it to my attention. We can then see whether something is slipping through the cracks because that should not be happening.  When it comes to students working full time, I have increased the student disregard for SUSI eligibility to ensure that students\u2019 part-time work is not counted against them when they are applying for their grants.  I have also taken a number of other measures as well as increasing the threshold to \u20ac120,000, which brought more and more students into the system. When it comes to the non-adjacent rates, I increased the grants for any student who has to travel 30 km or more to college. There is also more funding for students with disabilities or mental health challenges. A variety of packages have been introduced in the last budget. I hope to do a lot more in the coming budget but four months out is too early to outline exactly what it will contain. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  The Minister is right about students sleeping in their car whose parents earn over \u20ac100,000. While \u20ac100,000 is a huge amount of money, the difficulty and challenge are when there are several children in the family also in college or doing things. That puts pressure on family budgets. We have also spoken in this Chamber about students who are alienated from their parents but cannot access SUSI grants because their income is based on what their parents earn. We need to iron that out. While we are talking about a small number of students in this situation, we need to iron it out completely to have an education system inclusive of everyone.  Of course, it is not just young people struggling with fees. Older people who decide to go back to college are also affected. It is a huge strain on them. I am aware of a mother who is under huge pressure. She is a lone parent and has to pay fees on top of paying rent and trying to get her kids through things. It is a challenge. We need to be as supportive as we can. It is not just about those aged 17 and 18 going to college; it is also about the older person who decides to go back to college or go to college for the first time. They need to be supported as much as we can. Broadly, it may work for most, but it does not work for everyone, and we must focus on including everyone. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I agree with what the Deputy said. For the record, it is \u20ac120,000 rather than \u20ac100,000. I increased the threshold last year. Indeed, the T\u00e1naiste, when he held this portfolio, increased it before me. We have continued to increase that threshold to the level that up to 70% of Irish households now qualify for at least some form of fee subvention. In fact, all benefit from the universal measures but 70% of households are now eligible for other supports.  The Deputy mentioned the scenario of multiple children from a household attending college. These are the cases I would like to look at in a bit more detail in order to see how they might be dealt with by means of targeted measures as opposed to taking a one-size-fits-all approach, which we may well do also. We must consider whether there are particular courses that are missing out at the moment and on which we could focus? The Deputy mentioned the alienation scenario, which is always raised with me and which I am taking a good look at in order to identify what we can do.  There are a number of other measures. The student accommodation strategy is up and running. Some results have begun to emerge already and some proposals emanating from the strategy in terms of greater accommodation provision. I hope to see that being accelerated as fast as possible. We have invited all colleges to make submissions in respect of the strategy. There are a number of different facets to the cost of attending college and making life easier for students. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I call Deputy Kenny. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  There is a question in my name, but Deputy McGettigan's question is the next to be taken. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Third Level Fees"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Transport Infrastructure Ireland","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_18.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  Will the Minister initiate a discussion around commuter student terminology? Will he recognise the poor experience of the many commuter students in the higher education system? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  For some students, commuting to college may be a practical choice if they live close to campus. For many others, however, it is not a choice; it is a necessity. This is not about preferences; it arises as a result of accommodation shortages. Two of my daughters recently commuted to college, so I understand it gives rise to an additional burden and can be an impediment in terms of full participation in campus life. One of the things I have said is that it is an absolute goal of mine to allow students to have the full college experience, which means experiencing broader education, taking courses outside of their core disciplines, taking part in the whole networking experience, participating in student societies and doing all of the things that are part of college life. The provision of high-quality student accommodation at scale on campus is a lever to unlock that. It is critical that we deliver this.  In the context of those students who are commuting for their own reasons, including with regard to the distance they live from campus or for family reasons, it is important to recognise that we want to support them in terms of their need to commute and what we can do in each case. We provide student accommodation for those who want to live on campus or adjacent to it, but we also want to support the commuter student experience in other ways.  The national student accommodation strategy published in March found that in 2024, the most recent year for which data are available, 18% of students living at home experienced commutes that are considered to be excessive. That highlights the ongoing need for suitable accommodation, and that is central to the planning in the student accommodation strategy. One of the reasons I increased the level of grants in the most recent budget was to recognise the additional costs for students who are commuting and travelling long distances. People also have access to the student assistance fund, student accommodation systems and 1916 bursary. An additional \u20ac10.5 million has been made available this year to support those students, and 30,000 or more undergraduate and postgraduate students have benefited as a result. Collectively, those measures recognise the additional burden faced by students who are commuting to college and should go some way towards assisting them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I take this opportunity to mention a study by Professor Liz Thomas that was informed by a commitment to institutional change rather than just expecting commuter students to fit in with unreformed higher education institutions, HEIs, which states:  This would be facilitated by an institutional enabling environment which involves aligning institutional policies, processes and organisations, and engaging with stakeholders from senior leadership to staff and students around a shared goal of an inclusive experience and equitable outcomes ...  I have spoken to students about this. I spoke to students at Jigsaw yesterday who informed me that they feel that nobody seems to be talking or speaking to them about this and that they want to be recognised as a group. They said it is a burning issue for them. One of the issues they spoke about was having to get public transport at times that do not match up with their lectures. They get to college very early and do not get home until late at night. They have to leave early. The Minister says he wants them to enjoy the whole college experience, but they are not able to do this. Because of the issue with buses, some of them are missing lectures. There is a poor outcome in some data which shows that those making long commutes are suffering. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I talk to students all the time. I have almost daily interactions with them. I also meet formally with AML\u00c9 on a regular basis. I sad down with its representatives very recently and had a good chat. That is an ongoing conversation I am involved in.  In terms of what initiatives can be taken, I welcome the Deputy\u2019s reference to Professor Thomas's report. If she wants to share it with me, I will be to look at it and see if we can action some of the recommendations it contains. One thing we are actioning is a new pilot initiative to bring together the higher education institutions, the National Transport Authority, NTA, councils and transport operators to look at a pilot scheme to improve sustainable commuting for students and to consider the different routes and timetables and the journeys that students make in order to see if can we make sure they are all aligned and synchronised to support the student experience. The Government has supported young people with the young adult Leap card, which complements the student Leap card and which offers a 50% discount on travel fares across the Transport for Ireland network. That is practical assistance. My children use the student Leap card, which is a very helpful and practical support. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I very much welcome the NTA, local councils and students being brought together. That is going to be very positive in terms of helping those who are commuting. The TU students' union also brought out a report. It states that approximately 25% of students say they have to commute for two hours or more. When I spoke to students about having to commute on buses for that length of time, we discussed whether they could use it as study time. However, it emerged that travel sickness would prevent some people using it for that purpose. That is on top of everything else. It will be great if that group works out and if helps students, because then will then be able to enjoy some of the overall college experience. At the end of the day, however, as the Minister mentioned earlier, the lack of student and affordable accommodation is an issue, particularly when it comes to trying to resolve the situation in its entirety. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I used to commute by train and would try to get a bit of work done, but it depends on the nature of a person's journey and whether they suffer from travel sickness or whatever. This goes back to the core point I made at the start that while some students might find it convenient and preferable, it would be really unfair to suggest - and I would never do so - that students are doing it by choice in all cases. Some people just have no choice and would prefer to have accommodation close to campus. That is why we have a pilot scheme.  I have engaged with the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Brien, in the context of our Departments working together on this matter. I am looking to drill down into the detail of smarter travel plans and of aligning matters. When we are meet representatives of colleges, they will inform us that there is a pattern of issues, including no bus stops outside lecture halls, students having to walk a mile down the road or whatever to get a bus or timetables not being aligned with lecture times. There are quick wins that we can identify by means of the pilot scheme. We can also look at ways to pull everything together in a way that works better for students and colleges. There may well be some relatively easy changes that we can make. If there are, we will certainly make them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I apologise to Deputy McGettigan for getting the call wrong earlier. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Transport Infrastructure Ireland"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Apprenticeship Programmes","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_19.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  There is a positive aspect to this question. In the context of the way in which apprenticeship provision is funded through his Department, does the Minister expect the funding in question to be used to increase administrative and support staffing in line with the growth in apprenticeship numbers, for the recruitment of additional lecturing staff, technicians, and heads of trades, given that some institutions have recorded an increase in apprenticeship registration of up to 72%, without any corresponding increase in administrative staff. We have seen an increase in the number of apprenticeships people are taking up. In lie with that, the number of administrative staff and those teaching apprentices must also be increased. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  As the Deputy said, very fairly and positively, investing in Ireland\u2019s apprenticeship system is a central priority for me, as Minister, and my Department. Investment in the apprenticeship system has more than doubled, from a base of \u20ac184 million in 2020 to more than \u20ac415 million this year. That is very significant increase in investment in the apprenticeship sector. It reflects the Government's focus on the apprenticeship system and includes support staff, administrative staff and staff in other roles.  I am not aware of the specific case the Deputy referenced. He mentioned that there are some cases where support and administrative staff to go with the apprentices have not been provided. I am very open to the Deputy coming to me with the details in that regard. I will then be happy to interrogate the matter a little further if there is an issue in a particular location.  Higher education institutions are autonomous bodies with responsibility for managing their own staff and resources. My Department provides them with significant funding, but, to an extent, how they manage that in terms of staff hires or otherwise, is within their own control and remit.  This year, my Department is providing \u20ac113 million in apprenticeship funding to the HEA. That money will be suballocated to the higher education institutions. It covers the full costs of delivery, including operational costs like those relating to staffing. For craft apprenticeships, funding is provided by means of block grants, with a set amount allocated to each apprenticeship training block delivered by individual providers.  That allocation covers all apprenticeship costs, including teaching, technical and administrative staff costs. For consortia-led apprenticeships, the Higher Education Authority agrees a unit cost with providers that covers the full cost of delivery, including staff costs. Decisions on recruitment, deployment and internal resourcing are matters for the institution themselves, but notwithstanding that, I am happy to have a look at the individual case. I might refer it on to the relevant HEI or education and training board, ETB, as appropriate. If the Deputy likes, he can bring it to my attention and I can do that.  More broadly, SOLAS has been tasked with working through the apprenticeship system and making sure that we address any backlogs that have arisen and fast-track the creation of more places. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  That is appreciated. Institutions have come to me directly to say that, although they understand that they are the ones that deploy staff to the busiest departments of their institutions, they feel that there is not enough funding coming to them to do so, given the increase in apprenticeships in all of their institutions.  While I thank the Minister for giving me the opportunity to focus on one particular institution, there is a broader aspect to this question. We have seen a significant number of people taking up apprenticeship roles in this country, which is positive and I thank the Minister and his officials in the Department for that. Is the Department looking at giving additional funding for the institutions to provide them with the opportunity to employ more staff, including technicians and administrative staff, so that they can keep pace with the number of students coming to them looking for help with their apprenticeships? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  A few recent recruitment drives have been undertaken. SOLAS launched a recruitment campaign in late 2024 for new further education and training, FET, instructor staff nationwide. A campaign was run in the national media looking to recruit those personnel. One of the outputs of that saw the Dublin and D\u00fan Laoghaire ETB in Loughlinstown fill a number of electrical instructor posts through a radio advertising campaign. Another five training centres in the City of Dublin ETB were also supported through that. There were various different recruitment campaigns looking to fill other posts. Some 135 posts were filled as a result. It started with the electrical instructors but it spread right across to carpentry and joinery, plumbing, motor mechanics, pipe fitting, heavy goods vehicles, HGVs, metal fabrication, advanced manufacturing, hairdressing and much more. I will not go through every single area. There were a couple of dozen different disciplines that had increased recruitment as a result of the campaigns. We are certainly trying. In some cases, the difficulties may not be due to a lack of budget, but a lack of available staff. That is why we are trying to do recruitment campaigns to bring in instructors, support staff and people for other such roles. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I am sure that the Minister is aware of this but I want to put it on the record. The figure of 72% came to me through Munster Technological University, MTU, in Tralee, which the Minister is very familiar with and has visited. It is important to put that on the record, but it is also important to outline the broader aspect of it. We hear a great deal about the need to build more homes, deliver major infrastructural projects and strengthen Ireland's competitiveness. None of these ambitions can be achieved unless we invest in the people who train our apprentices. Investment in apprenticeships is not simply an education issue, but an economic necessity. I know the institutions where staff have worked tirelessly to accommodate record numbers of apprenticeships, like MTU in Tralee. It is important that we continue to put this on the record.  Over the last 18 months in the Chamber, we have had robust debates about apprenticeships. There are a lot of challenges facing apprenticeships. I will specifically mention pay and conditions for apprentices. I know that is being worked through with the Department, albeit perhaps through a piecemeal approach. I again want to put on the record that the number of people taking up apprenticeships in every sector is positive, and has been so for the last 18 months. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I entirely agree. I thank Deputy Kenny for his support and the support of his party on the broader policy initiative. What he says is true. I have visited MTU in Tralee. I have visited all of the different technological universities, TUs, and their components at least once, if not a few times. I recently held a construction skills roundtable event in UCD where we brought together the employers in the construction space, the trade unions and the training agencies - SOLAS, the ETBs and the HEA for a conversation on exactly that.  The Deputy touched on our ambition as a Government to build housing and infrastructure at scale, be it the metro, the DART+ projects, the roads network, renewable energy or the energy grid. We are investing significantly in all of these under the national development plan, with a budget of over \u20ac200 billion over the lifetime of the Government. To meet infrastructure, housing and other needs, we must have the capacity to build this out. That requires multiple craft apprenticeships coming on stream and being supported, and having that pipeline of talent coming through. I am committed to driving that on. It is a key part of our national initiative. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Apprenticeship Programmes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Third Level Education","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_20.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I am sure the Minister is aware of it but I want to draw his attention to the open letter signed by more than 2,300 academics and researchers, which rings the alarm bell about Research Ireland's 2026 to 2030 strategy. The letter states, \"The new strategy is structurally, rhetorically and materially focused on commercially translatable research and economic impact rather than supporting bedrock, fundamental, discovery research and research for the public good.\" Will the Minister take this on board and meet the petitioners? Will he intervene? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  As the Deputy is aware, Taighde \u00c9ireann - Research Ireland - was established in 2024 with the legislative remit to promote excellence and research across all activity fields and disciplines. Its first strategy was published this March following extensive consultation. I am satisfied that the strategy meets the legislative remit of the agency. The strategy and the publicly available programme plan accord with my own central philosophy, which applies just two very simple criteria to all disciplines: research should be excellent and impactful. What \"impactful\" means is not defined narrowly, but very broadly. It can mean many things. It can be societal resilience, economic impact or a long-term, slow-burn project that manifests in an entirely different way than how it was first conceived, as with all basic and frontier research. Impact is not a narrow metric at all; it is quite a wide one.  I have also codified into my Department's strategy as one of its four central pillars that curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge are a public good, which speaks to the benefit of discovery research a priori without any particular exit conditions or targets at the start. The strategy has a balanced portfolio across all disciplines and career stages, with funding across different areas of study, from the arts, humanities and social sciences, AHSS, through to science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, STEM - and across the spectrum of funding.  I am very familiar with the letter. Obviously, I have read it but I also met the petitioners and the lead authors of it very recently. I am engaging with them. The Deputy quoted one line from the letter. I think they have actually resiled from that line because when we met, they refocused their attention on one or two particular items. I dare say there is a level of rhetoric or subjectivity in the letter - that is their prerogative. Some of the arguments do not stand up to scrutiny but others have more merit and I am engaging with them on those. I was open to engaging with them on all of the arguments but a number of those are perhaps a little bit political or subjective. Having said that, there certainly are some very good people involved and I have been engaging with them. I have asked Research Ireland to have a structured engagement with the group going forward to ensure the petitioners' concerns are heard and reflected in the new plan. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  It seems to me that what has happened is effectively a corporate or partially corporate capture of our research programme. If it continues, this is going to be to the detriment of all of us and the detriment of our education system and society, which will lose out on research that does not have an immediate commercial application and, therefore, is not being prioritised under the new strategy.  The petitioners emphasise that there was a lack of participatory process in the development of this strategy. It was not based on evidence. They emphasise that what we see here is industry-centred, commercially-focused, profit-seeking priorities at the expense of arts, humanities and social sciences. In particular, they warn about the dismantling of the current PhD scholarship and postdoctoral fellowship programmes. That is what is being proposed, with a prioritisation of research that is profit related and commercially driven by corporations. This would be to the detriment of us all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  There were seven bullet points in the letter. I think six of them have been accepted as perhaps not being of the same level of concern as they were. The engagement was helpful in that regard because of the engagement with the authors on a number of those points.  I strongly reject the assertion of a corporate culture. Again, maybe it is a little bit political and subjective.  I appreciate that the Deputy is entitled to say it but I do not think it is a fair characterisation. There is no requirement whatsoever that there be an immediate, or any, economic impact. In fact, the strategy is very wide-ranging and allows for significant funding of discovery research, which I have always argued for. There are no metrics tied to corporate outputs, as the Deputy might have suggested. That was probably more than a little unfair.  I take the point on the Government of Ireland scholarship. That is the one that we agree needs to be revisited and examined. There are certainly merits in the proposed new approach but I also accept that there are legitimate concerns raised as well. There is engagement under way, facilitated by myself but ultimately between Research Ireland and the research community. I have had a number of meetings on that in recent weeks and will continue to do so. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Just to confirm, the Minister is saying that he is open to changes continuing to take place to this strategy. That would obviously be welcome. I ask the Minister to commit to prioritising research that is for the public good. \"Research on economic inequities, democratic participation, mental health, housing injustices, climate justice, education, and the full range of human experiences and societal processes must be valued on its own terms\". That is a quote from the petition, which I think is very important. The current proposal suggests that non-applied research has to demonstrate its future economic utility in order to qualify for funding. That is precisely the problem with a short-term economic utility focus, which then leads to a downgrading of humanities, social sciences and so on in favour of those that have a more immediate commercial application, which would be a real problem. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I do not think it actually does say that. I say that in a genuine spirit of partnership. I am not trying to catch the Deputy out or correct him. If he can find where it says that and bring it to my attention, I would welcome him doing so and we will have a look at it. I know the letter makes those claims but I do not think they are borne out in a detailed study of the strategy. If they are, it is not something I would support. I have been on the record of this House for many years saying that we need to support research across the full technology readiness level, TRL, spectrum from discovery and frontier research right through to applied. Of course, applied research has a really strong place in economic engagement and driving our enterprise and our knowledge economy is at the core. That creates jobs, talent and knowledge that can support both our economy and our society. Equally, discovery research is ultimately at the heart of all knowledge. Most of the leading, significant progressions of society and civilisation have come about through discovery research.  In terms of funding for the arts, humanities and so on, that is ring-fenced within the strategy. It is proportionate to international comparisons and benchmarks, and certainly on a par with the historic funding of arts, humanities and so on through different research agencies such as the Irish Research Council, Science Foundation Ireland or the previous organisations. There is no reduction in that at all in the strategy or elsewhere. In fact, it is actually a ring-fenced fund. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 86 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Third Level Education"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Apprenticeship Programmes","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_22.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  The number one reform that would make the most difference is ensuring that apprentices at least get the national minimum wage from the start. That is not a radical demand. I was previously on the committee and this came up with everybody we spoke to - apprentices having to pay loads of money for tools and so on and not even getting the minimum wage. At the very least, let us give apprentices the minimum wage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  As I said to Deputy Eoghan Kenny a few moments ago, craft and construction apprenticeships are central to delivering vital infrastructure, including housing, and sustaining economic growth. As Minister, I have prioritised annual investment in apprenticeship delivery, which has more than doubled since my Department was established, going from \u20ac184 million in 2020 to over \u20ac415 million in 2026. Our apprenticeship system has, accordingly, continued to grow. Overall registrations increased by 78%, from just under 5,500 five years ago to just under 10,000 today, with craft registrations in particular rising significantly in that period.  We have a programme for Government target of 12,500 new registrations by 2030, with two thirds in craft and construction-related areas. I have recently secured Cabinet approval for a new action plan for apprenticeships to support further growth in the apprenticeship sector, attract more young people into careers through apprenticeships, and pivot more people towards the apprenticeship route as an equal alternative to the CAO path and the traditional higher educational route, one that can lead to a very satisfying, rewarding career in many ways.  On the Deputy's particular point about the wage of an apprentice, I take the point on board that is often raised. It is significantly more than any student will receive, which is zero. A student does not get paid at all and an apprentice does get paid as they progress through. It is not unique among occupations to receive no or little funding by way of payment during training. When I trained as a barrister - as a devil - we were not paid either. It is not unique to apprentices. There are many professions where this happens to people who go in at the early stages.  Typically, it begins to surpass the minimum wage after second year. By the time someone is out working in the economy post qualification, the median wage is about \u20ac915 within two years of qualification, which compares very favourably with alternative pathways that other students and young people might follow. I would again stress to anyone thinking about it that it is a very attractive and rewarding career option for many to go into. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  That is a bit of a hard case to make to young people who are looking at their options and see that they will be getting paid \u20ac7.67 an hour in the first year, or just over half the national minimum wage. I am in favour of an increased student grant and so on, but the difference is that these people are working. They are creating value for their employers. It is a real obstacle. According to Mr. Ben Friel, who was at the Joint Committee on Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science when I was a member, many apprentices dropped out in the first year because they could not afford the tools and were expected to pay big upfront costs. The low pay, along with the fees and the price of tools, was creating many barriers to entry.  We introduced a Bill to scrap the exemption for apprentices to ensure that everyone would get the minimum wage. I was contacted by multiple apprentices saying their situations were not doable and they could not exist. These are often people with kids - we heard statistics on that. Many of them are in their 20s or older. They are not young people. This is not a bit of pocket money. They deserve to get the minimum wage at the very least. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I think that is fair. We are trying through Government policy to encourage people at different life stages to enter the apprenticeship journey. I agree that it is not just young people coming out of school and going into apprenticeships any more. There are people crossing over. I met a number of apprentices, including people mid-career and at mid-life stages, some of whom had families and other commitments, so I get that. It is true, though, that if you take the usual alternative scenario of a full-time higher education course, you could have a flat with four people sharing together - two apprentices and two students - and the apprentices will be getting \u20ac7 or \u20ac8 an hour while the students will not be getting anything per hour. If we look at the alternative pathways, apprentices are being paid something as they go through and that increases in line with their training. There is a balance as well, because the employer has to be incentivised to take on the apprentice. For any trainee, they are probably costing more at the start than they are giving back in terms of useful output, given that it takes a while for them to become productive in their workforce.  We engage with the trade unions all the time and have a framework in place where the trade unions sit down and set rates in partnership with the employers and the educational framework. That is the model we have followed to date. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  An apprentice - a first-year motor mechanic - contacted me after we introduced the Bill. He said:  I am currently working a 40-hour week at \u20ac6.20 an hour. I am expected to pay for my own tools. To be fair, the employer I am with gives a tool allowance of \u20ac250 but that would barely get you much. To even get into an apprenticeship in Ireland it is a minimum requirement across most trades you must be able to drive and hold a licence. As a first year, I am expected to pay the extortionate prices of insurance on top of loan repayments for the car.  Even if we forget that point for a minute - I rarely forget the issue of workers' rights and people getting less than the minimum wage - if we are serious about addressing the housing crisis and getting people into apprenticeships, then this is an immediate measure that could be taken and would have a significant impact in terms of people coming into the trades. The committee on higher education produced a report in February that recommended that a minimum wage floor be introduced, which was obviously informed by all of those apprentices who were saying this was a big issue for them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  There is a framework in place where the trade unions and employers engage together on setting rates. The relevant legislation falls under the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment as opposed to my own Department. The minimum wage laws are part of the Industrial Training Act 1967 and the Labour Services Act 1987. All apprentices are, of course, employees. During the on-the-job phase of an apprenticeship, they are paid a wage by their employer. Neither SOLAS nor my Department is responsible for setting the rate of pay.  In the case of craft apprenticeships, minimum rates of pay are typically determined through that collective bargaining arrangement, subject to the normal dispute resolution mechanisms and are often underpinned by sectoral employment orders. We have well-established mechanisms engaging in partnership with the representative bodies to set these rates. That is the practice that has been there for some time. Perhaps there is a conversation that has to happen across the partners in that system. Certainly, it is beyond the remit of my Department exclusively or even at all in some cases. I hear the point the Deputy raises, and it is fair one. It is a balancing act. All the parties are at the table already setting those rates and agreeing sectoral employment orders. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Apprenticeship Programmes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_23","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Apprenticeship Programmes","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_23.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  As I have mentioned already during these questions, given the growth in apprenticeships in Ireland, is the Department considering plans to introduce a CAO style type of application process to secure an apprenticeship? We all know there is a significant number of people who are waiting and trying to get an apprenticeship and trying to get a company to take them on for their apprenticeship. There is the CAO system and an application process for students who are going into further and higher education from sixth year. Is that going to be brought in for apprenticeships? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I thank the Deputy. The CAO processes applications for undergraduate courses in higher education. Unlike higher education, apprenticeships are different. They are employment-led programmes that start in the workplace. The apprentices are employed, registered with SOLAS and training is a combination of on-the-job work experience and structured off-the-job training. Part of the process of starting an apprenticeship is finding an employer and arranging with that employer to take the apprentice on. It is a little bit more direct and deliberative than the CAO process where a student applies to a course and sees what availability there is. In the case of an apprenticeship, they start by going through an employer, come to an arrangement locally and then they commence their training. It is the other way around. For that reason, apprenticeships are not historically advertised on the CAO rather employers advertise apprenticeship vacancies directly. They can do that in many ways. They can use - and I encourage them to do so - the Generation Apprenticeship website and apprenticeship.ie. If the Deputy goes onto its website, as he probably has done, and I have done as well, he can look through it. I looked through my own county out of interest to see what was available. I was surprised to find that many were not available. When I looked into it further, I found they were being provided but the employers had not signed up to the apprenticeship.ie website. The response I got was that they did not need to because they are getting apprentices coming to them anyway. There is a gap there. I encourage more employers to utilise the available machinery and frameworks we have put in place to allow that kind of matching take place between the apprentice and apprentice employer.  Of course, my priority is to ensure learners can access clear information on all pathways and tertiary pathways. A new apprenticeship action plan will be published later this year. A big focus of that is improving the communication and access to opportunities. People cannot apply for something if they do not know it exists or know where to start. One of things we have done is that we have included apprenticeship information on the CAO website. It is not quite a CAO process but it is on the CAO website. Ultimately, I would like to get to a point where we have a one-stop-shop students, apprentices, learners and all young people can come into and begin their journey. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  In relation to apprenticeship.ie , I ask the Department to promote this more strongly and more to career guidance teachers in our secondary schools who are probably aware of it but I am not necessarily sure how many parents or young people are aware of apprenticeship.ie. It is a simple fix. It probably would not need a lot of funding to promote that. The main focus of the question is on the fact they are no longer confined to the traditional trades anymore where they approach a local plumber or carpenter to take an apprentice on. It is covering areas like ICT, finance, biopharma, logistics and engineering. They are providing young people and career changers with excellent opportunities to earn while they learn. It is an opportunity so employers have more of an understanding of how to get the apprenticeships but also apprentices would be able to access local employers or national employers. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  The Deputy is right. We need to continue to promote this pathway. My Department is very industrious and engaged on that front. Among a number of things, we launched the careers in construction action plan and relaunched it recently with a number of actions. There are over 20 actions related to the promotion of training opportunities and activities to make students and would be apprentices aware and to encourage greater gender balance across the apprenticeship sector, particularly craft apprenticeships. On International Women's Day, I attended an event with my colleague, Deputy Dempsey, in Trim, attended by students from all-female secondary schools and at which we highlighted the ability of that as a path. At a time when we have great construction challenges and ambitions, we cannot afford to leave one half of the workforce outside of that conservation. That was strongly welcomed. We have the building heroes campaign which is running at the moment. It has 12 young people sharing their stories about working in construction. Among them, there are four outstanding female young apprentices who are sharing their stories. That is a strong tool to attract people into the pathways as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I am willing to work with the Minister on this. Our objective should be to remove barriers and not create them. If Ireland is to meet its future skills need, we must make apprenticeships as visible, accessible and attractive as every other education pathway. I welcome the Minister's views. This CAO style application system for apprenticeships is not going to happen overnight but that is the ambition the Department should have. It is the ambition we should have in this House as policymakers and public representatives. There is an opportunity to give every young person across the country, no matter what pathway they want to go down, the best possible opportunity to access that pathway. That includes a centralised application system like the one we have for those who are heading into undergraduate programmes to provide them, as the Minister said, with a one-stop-shop. That is the level of engagement we must have with those young people who are seeking apprenticeships but also with career guidance teachers, employers who are willing to take on apprenticeships and the higher institutions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I wish to take the opportunity to thank the higher and further education committee for its work on the report on apprenticeships, which I received in February, led by Deputy McGreehan and supported by Deputy Kenny and others in the House. There are 48 actions in that which will be considered. I will action as many of them as I can in the next round of the action plan. We are engaging in second level schools. There is a documentary on careers that has been circulated. The National Apprenticeship Office has done some very good work around the promotion of apprenticeships and options and trying to remove any barriers that may exist and raise awareness. The Deputy is also correct that second level is the key point. That is where people make choices about their future career paths. Engagement with career guidance counsellors and secondary schools more broadly is something we certainly look at more. I will work with the Minister, Deputy Naughton, in the second level system around pathways there and look to promote that. We will continue to try to centralise information to have a one-stop-shop, whether a person is going down a university path, apprenticeship path or tertiary path, to ensure we have a place we can point people to and where all the information is freely available. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Apprenticeship Programmes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_24","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Education and Training Provision","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_24.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  We are all very aware of what is happening in the AI space and the rapid pace it is taking over our lives, both at home and in businesses. What progress is being made in expanding lifelong learning opportunities to support people in upskilling and reskilling throughout their working lives? I am specifically referencing AI and the business requirements and businesses needs companies have at the moment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I thank the Deputy very much for raising this important issue. Just this morning before I came into the House, I attended an event in the Accenture offices in Dublin, sponsored by IBEC, where it had a conversation on AI and future skills needs. It was a wide-ranging conversation. It has published a report. It is publicly available. I was attending the launch of that report but there was also a panel discussion on the impact of AI on the workforce and on employers and employees. There was a general finding that while many SMEs are aware of the challenges and opportunities it provides, they may not necessarily have confidence that they have the capacity to take it on at the moment. That is something I am determined to address.  The expansion of lifelong learning opportunities is a central priority for me and the Department. Most people accept and agree it is not just about the one point in life education, when a person comes out of school or college, but it is about ongoing lifelong learning, as the Deputy rightly raised in his question. We are making significant and sustained investment across a number of initiatives to make sure workers, jobseekers and employers have access to flexible high-quality learning opportunities. Skillnet Ireland plays a big part in that in terms of enterprise-led upskilling. Springboard+ and MicroCreds are two programmes I have for learning in the workforce and learning while one earns. The skills to advance programme provides further as well. I recently committed another \u20ac4 million to short MicroCreds courses employees can take while in work.  They control those now so there are subsidised voucher schemes for short-cycle courses that are provided through the Springboard+ programme.  We then have the new aiready.ie website, which I launched about six weeks ago. As of this morning, 7,500 users had signed up to that and were using it on a regular basis. The intention of that platform is to continue to drive that on, to add content and to add to it. It started off as an entry-level demystifying exercise to take away the fear of AI and promote it, but the intention is that the website will continue to grow to become a more advanced user portal, including gateways to other courses, such as the likes the ETBs are offering, in that space as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  I commend the Minister and his Department on the priority they have placed on lifelong learning. It is something we should be very proud of. We now have the highest level of third level education attainment in the European Union, with over 65% of young adults holding a third level qualification. We are also performing strongly in the lifelong learning ranking, at sixth in the European Union for adult participation. However, while sixth is a strong position, we should always aim to be number one. As technology evolves and careers become more dynamic, lifelong learning is no longer simply an education issue; it is becoming an economic necessity. When I say that, I am talking about the business requirements and the jobs that will be lost. We have to be very cognisant of the opportunities that are there with AI but also be willing to make sure we achieve and keep the jobs we have already in the economy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  We will see a period of change and of flux. There are challenges but there are also opportunities. Some jobs may well be lost but other jobs will be created, including different types of jobs. An example was given during the conversation this morning that when the Excel spreadsheet came into widespread use about 25 years ago, there were predictions there would be no more accountants and that they would become obsolete as a profession. In fact, there are probably more of them and more accounting firms than ever. What accountants have done is move up the value chain in terms of offering strategic financial advice as opposed to being calculators. My own view is that as technology continues to evolve, we as a training system and State must remain ahead of and on top to it and embrace it in some cases.  One initiative I recently launched which may be of interest to the Deputy is the national skills round tables. I am bringing together employers, employees and the training agencies in different sectors to ask what they need from the training agency, how technological change impacts them and how other developments and demographics impact them. We had a construction skills round table in UCD recently. I had a technological round table event last week at the Vodafone office. Later this month, I will bring together professional services including accounting, legal and consultancy-type firms to ask what changes they are seeing in their workforce and how the training system education systems can respond to that proactively. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  One of Ireland's greatest competitive advantages has always been the quality of the people. Increasingly, however, international investors are looking at not only educational attainment but how quickly a country's workforce can adapt to technological changes and acquire new skills. With AI, as we talked about earlier, transforming almost every sector of our economy, lifelong learning is becoming an increasingly important factor in attracting and retaining foreign direct investment. Countries that can rapidly upskill and reskill their workforce will have a significant competitive advantage and I strongly support the work the Minister is doing in this area. Will he outline how his Department is working with employers, higher education institutions and enterprise agencies to strengthen Ireland's culture of lifelong learning and ensure we will remain one of the most attractive locations in Europe for investment now and in the years ahead? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  A bit of shorthand I often use, and I know a number of State agencies also use, to talk about the pace of change is the four Ds - digitalisation, decarbonisation, demographics and deglobalisation. All four of these things are happening quickly and we are living in a fast-changing world. The Deputy is right that we need to be adaptable and flexible. Some of the ways in which we are responding to that include, as I mentioned, the skills round tables in which I am engaging, where each month I do a different sectoral dive with employers and training agencies around the table to understand their needs.  We also have the national skills council, which was created last year and is headed up by Dr. Kevin Marshall. A number of my officials are involved in it. It looks at the skills needs that are emerging. We have a skills observatory, which is effectively a database that provides real-time information about skills gaps, skills needs and what types of vacancies there are. There are some new occupations coming into being and some occupations that perhaps are no longer as much in demand. To get ahead of that, we need to ask if we have the people, and in many cases it is the same people, who can be skilled up for those.  I mentioned the AI ready programme. We are also exploring a number of national skills academies, which are sector-specific partnerships between colleges, employers and industries to make sure we can provide the type of training in real time that they and their industries need. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Education and Training Provision"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_25","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Education and Training Provision","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_25","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_25.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  We know we have environmental targets. We know we want families to live in warm, fully insulated homes. That has never been more important, when we look at the geopolitical climate we are living in. However, there are real concerns as to whether we have the workforce to deliver warm, insulated homes - both new builds and retrofittings. How many do we currently have in training in the industry? What steps is the Minister taking to increase that to make sure that we not only meet our climate targets but help families to live in warm, insulated homes? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I propose to take Questions Nos. 90 and 117 together.  The Deputy is absolutely right that this is a really important area of focus. I mentioned earlier the broader need for construction skills across every sector to meet the ambitions the Government has set out in terms of infrastructure delivery, be that transport, the metro project or DART+ - I know the Deputy\u2019s constituency is in line for some benefits from the public transport programmes - the housing needs we have, which are central to the Government's ambition, and the retrofit and green energy revolution that is at our fingertips. In the energy space, that includes a commitment of \u20ac10 billion to enhance the grid capacity, because we need to be able to transit the energy as well as generate it, the workforce and the talent to do that - everything from retrofitting to green energy technicians and renewable energy engineers.  I was in Munster Technological University, MTU, in Tralee recently and visited the centre where offshore wind turbine mechanics are being trained up on a new course there. We also have a centre for maritime skills in National Maritime College of Ireland, NMCI, in Cork. Right around the country we see similar types of courses being created. We also have the nearly zero energy building, NZEB, and retrofitting specialty. We have a couple of NZEB centres of excellence operated by Tipperary ETB, Kildare and Wicklow ETB and Cavan and Monaghan ETB. These are creating centres of excellence for these NZEBs and the idea is that they can then have specialist training provided in areas like plumbing, electrical, heat pump installation, site supervision, renewable energy installations and so on. In some cases we have courses available for people who are already in construction or already have a qualification or familiarity in order to allow them to reskill very quickly, sometimes as quickly as three or four days. In other courses we have full apprenticeships and full programmes over a number of years to deliver those.  More broadly, and this is something I think there is great potential to do more on, we are also promoting modern methods of construction, MMC, so we can embrace 2D or 3D models where they are either partially assembled off site and then brought to the location or almost fully assembled and the finished kit is brought into place. If we can fully embrace MMC, we will have a potential 40% dividend in productivity, which means we can do more with less. That will enable us to more quickly and efficiently meet many of our needs in that area. There is a great opportunity there. Mount Lucas in County Offaly is a demonstration site I have visited a number of times with Deputy McCormack and others. That is a really good example but we have others. Wexford County Council had a project under way as well and 12 homes are being built out using MMC.  There are a number of ways we can do this. We are also implementing an action plan, which I launched last year, that contains 58 actions coming from the expert group on future skills needs. They are looking at the wide-scale adoption of MMC and how we can enhance this more and provide more training and more skills to ultimately deliver on the ambitions we all share. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  It is good to hear that work is under way. What I did not hear is whether we know the numbers we need to get to. As the Minister said, a broad range of skill sets are required to deliver these homes. Is there co-ordination between the Minister's Department and the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment? We know the targets we want to get to for 2030. Do we know the numbers of skilled workers we will need across the broad range to get there? Is the Department supporting that to ensure that there are sufficient programmes to deliver the numbers of skilled workers?  I just did not hear that in the answer. It is really important that we have co-ordination. The Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment has substantial money, which should be used to support having a skilled workforce in place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  If there is substantial money there, the Deputy can point me to it because it is all accounted for in my budget. It would be great if I did have more money but that will be something for the Estimates process when we go through that.  In terms of the numbers that are required, a recent independent report I commissioned from Indecon, which I brought to Cabinet, looked at our future construction workforce needs. It found that we have a shortage of skilled workers projected over the next ten years if we play out all of our national missions such as the infrastructure and public transport projects, the grid renewal and meeting the housing demand. My Department and the agencies will absolutely ramp up output to the maximum possible while preserving quality in the systems, and will examine a number of ways that we might be able to do that, one of which is by using modern methods of construction but there may be other methods we can utilise as well. Ultimately, as a society we have to examine whether there will be an enduring gap. Skills migration is going to be part of that solution. Value-added migration is something we will have to be alive to, particularly when workforce needs cannot be met domestically alone. There are other areas we have to look at to help fill those gaps but first and foremost the priority would be producing the skills, the talent and the educated workers through our training agencies, universities and apprenticeship systems. As has been mentioned, we will have to reskill many workers. There are many people with particular skills who are already in working in construction and who, with a light enhancement to their qualifications such as the three- or four-day courses that are already available in places like Mount Lucas and elsewhere, can actually skill up and get to the stage where they are proficient in emerging technologies and moving with it.  As I said in response to an earlier question, change continues to come at us. We need to embrace and anticipate change and move ahead of it. That is exactly what we are doing in this area with the likes of those green energy courses, renewables and the wind turbine maintenance course that is provided now in Tralee, and many others, which are fundamental to fulfilling that training need. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  I thank the Minister. This is a point I made to the Secretary General of the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment at the public accounts committee. There is money there and we absolutely need to invest in ensuring that we have retrofitting, and do everything we can to meet our climate targets, not just because of the financial consequences that might arise but because it is the right thing to do. We want people and families to be living in warm and fully insulated buildings. I would like to see the Minister's Department co-ordinate with the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment, and with his colleague the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, to make sure we are doing everything we can to make sure we have the skilled workforce to meet our climate targets and deliver for families.  The Minister, Deputy Lawless, has alluded to the awareness at second level of the importance of these various apprenticeship programmes and trades. We really need to be doing everything we can to encourage people into the sector. I would like to see the Minister continue to do his work in that space. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I can absolutely assure the Deputy that I am doing all I can in that space. We have a number of courses in plumbing, electrical, heat pump installation, site supervision, offshore wind turbine maintenance and many others. There is also the adoption more widely of MMC.  Specialist and technical skills are very important but other skills are equally important. The plans we have adopted to date aim to promote skills transferability and include transversal skills. This is something that has emerged from the skills round tables I have been holding with sectors, including the construction sector, very recently. It is coming through from all sectors that while it is desirable to have a technical ability in particular areas, it is even more desirable to have the ability to have portable or flexible skills, leadership or communication skills, teamwork abilities and many skills that transcend one discipline and are multidisciplinary. We have a wider project to ensure that all those kinds of competencies are instilled in all courses, regardless of the discipline undertaken. At the heart of this, and at the heart of the Deputy's question on the courses under the green skills agenda, is making sure that the workforce is equipped to deliver the retrofit programmes and the next generation of energy efficient homes, and of course to take the full opportunity that renewable energy presents to us here in Ireland. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 91 to 94, inclusive, taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"  "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 96 and 97 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Education and Training Provision"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_26","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Research Funding","counts":{"speechCount":9,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_26","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_26.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  Will the Minister give an update on his discussions with the European Research Council, ERC, in relation to the multi-annual funding framework for science? Ireland has built an international reputation for excellence in scientific research. Our universities and research institutions consistently compete successfully for European funding and Irish researchers have made significant contributions in areas ranging from health and pharmaceuticals to climate science, artificial intelligence and advanced manufacturing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I thank the Deputy for his interest in this area. It is a critical area. The Deputy asked about the ERC and I think he may also want me to talk about the Horizon Europe programme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  They are two separate but complementary activities so I will speak to both in my answer. The European Research Council is one of the key instruments in the EU research and innovation framework programme, Horizon Europe. It was established in 2007 and is the premier European funding organisation for excellent frontier research, funding researchers of any nationality and age. Ahead of the Irish Presidency, just last week, on my invitation the ERC's scientific council came to Dublin. They are an independent group of top researchers who guide the ERC programme. They visited Dublin to hold their plenary meeting and stakeholder engagements. I addressed the council and spoke on the re-election of the president of the European Research Council. I emphasised the importance of supporting bottom-up and curiosity-driven fundamental research, and excellence in research. The Taoiseach also attended and spoke at the same event, which I hope speaks to the high-level Government commitment to supporting this area of excellence and research across all disciplines.  The Horizon Europe programme funds the European Research Council and is the EU's key funding programme for research and innovation. The current programme runs until 2027. In July of last year, the Commission published its proposal for the next Horizon Europe programme as part of the EU budget package for the period 2028 to 2034. Following intensive negotiations the Council, made up of the 27 member states including us, agreed its position on the next Horizon Europe programme just last week in the last week of the Cypriot Presidency. That is a very significant milestone and I congratulate our colleagues in Cyprus on leading out in that agreement. It now falls to me to chair the European Research Council over the next six months during our Presidency. We will now enter what are called trilogue negotiations. Having got the agreement in the Cypriot Presidency, the Irish Presidency will now engage with the Parliament to bring that forward. Chairing it is an honest broker role, so it would not be appropriate for me to get into Ireland's specific interests, although obviously we have made those known in the past. We will now move to chair the debate in an honest broker fashion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I thank the Minister. The EU Presidency obviously gives us a greater opportunity to work with our European counterparts and, as the Minister is the honest broker chairing that, it is essential that we gain significant experience from the amount that we can invest in scientific research.  It would probably be remiss of me not to mention University College Cork in my county, which does a significant amount of scientific research. I am very proud as a Cork man that we do such fantastic scientific research.  One of the biggest issues raised repeatedly by researchers is the need for greater certainty around long-term funding. Scientific research cannot be planned on a year-to-year basis. Major projects often take many years to develop, requiring sustained investment, international collaboration, and the ability to recruit and retain highly skilled researchers. This is not simply about supporting academia. Research and innovation underpin Ireland's future economic success. It is good that the Minister referenced the Horizon Europe programme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I could not agree more. It is something that I have put front and centre in my Ministry since I took up this office. Fundamental research is absolutely key to driving Ireland as a knowledge economy, as a society and civilisationally more broadly. It is the key to future knowledge creation, economic growth and societal resilience. It is why I created, for example, the INSPIRE research infrastructure programme, with a \u20ac750 million commitment over the term of the Government to roll out research, equipment and facilities right across every higher education authority in Ireland.  In terms of Horizon Europe and Ireland's Presidency, the Deputy rightly said that it is not just about academics. Of course, they are fundamental to it but it is also about wider society and the wider economy. I have adopted an Horizon Europe action plan for the remaining two years of the current programme. From an Irish perspective, one thing we are seeking to do is ensure that SMEs take full opportunity of the participations available to them to draw down. We have drawn down \u20ac1 billion in funding from that programme to date just in the current term but there are opportunities to draw down a couple of hundred million more within the current programme even before we get to the new one.  An action plan in respect of Horizon has been published. We partnered with Enterprise Ireland on that. I encourage SMEs that are not already involved to get involved now and make sure they draw down whatever is available for their research activities. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  On the broader aspect to this, we invest significantly in educating talented scientists. We must ensure that, having provided funding to educate these talented scientists, we do not put them in the position where they feel they must leave Ireland because they cannot see a stable research career here. I do not have statistics on that but if we are going to engage with and fund young people to become fantastic scientists, we must ensure we provide the funding to make sure they can have a stable research career here, if they wish to have one and if it is possible. Has the Department examined ways to complement the European funding model that we have alongside more predictable national investment? I do not expect him to go into that in detail. There is a budgetary process involved there. There has been significant investment in scientific research but we have to ensure that we match European funding with national investment across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  As well as matching European funding, we have surpassed it because while we drew down \u20ac1 billion in Horizon Europe funding in the current term, I have committed over \u20ac2.45 billion for research funding from State funds, so we are doing far more.  I mentioned the INSPIRE research infrastructure programme, which is a \u20ac750 million commitment to research infrastructure. I launched seven new Rinn centres, which are the Research Ireland centres, just last week. That was a \u20ac460 million investment, and those centres include things like advanced computing technology, artificial intelligence, quantum computing and big data AI. They also include things like semiconductors, biotechnology, material sciences and health informatics. There are programmes there across societal resilience and economic growth as well as the creation and pursuit of knowledge, which are fundamental goals. Those are the seven latest centres and they complement the existing centres. Overall, over 50% of the Department's national development plan, NDP, allocation has been allocated to supporting research and innovation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Grace Boland)  Before we move to the next question, I welcome the service users from St. Aidan's Services in Gorey and in particular Nicole, Ian, Donnchadh and Caroline, who are here with Deputy Brian Brennan. They are all very welcome. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 99 to 105, inclusive, taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Research Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Technological Universities","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_27.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  During the early negotiations to establish a university in the south east, Kilkenny played a key role. I was associated with those negotiations, many years after which South East Technological University, SETU, was established. What steps are being taken to expand the courses offered in Kilkenny city relative to the university? Does the Minister consider a Norman museum as something appropriate that could be championed and provided? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  Before I respond, I wish St. Aidan's Services in Gorey well. I know the organisation very well because Gorey was my hometown before I ever lived in Kildare. My sister-in-law, Laura Walsh, is a service user in St. Aidan's. I do not think she is in the group today but if she is, I say \"hello\" to her and all of the other service users. The staff do a great job, and I thank them for everything they do. I am very familiar with the organisation's work.  I thank Deputy McGuinness for the question on the campus in Kilkenny city. He raised this directly with me before and I appreciate that. It is something he has championed, and I see the merit in the Norman concept, particularly as we are coming to The Year of the Normans later in this term. That is something that would be appropriate for the commemoration of that period. Kilkenny as a city with its great tradition would be a very suitable home for it.  In terms of how we organise capital projects and support them from within the Department, my Department works with the higher education institutions and education training boards, ETBs, to develop capital projects, along with their master plans. Capital investment is then allocated through a competitive process. Successful projects progress through different stages of planning, tender and construction but ultimately it is a bottom-up process. The institutions come to me with projects as opposed to me going to them to tell them what to do.  The NDP published last July includes the capital ceilings for the next four years, and that is complemented by the tertiary sector's capital investment plan. The capital funding envelop available to me is the mechanism through which I fund these projects, which is significant with \u20ac4.55 billion allocated across my Department for capital projects.  SETU is the relevant institute in the south east, and it has multiple campuses, including a presence in the Xcelerate Centre at St. Kieran's College on College Road in Kilkenny. It has an action to enhance key strategic partnerships, as well as the establishment of a working group with Kilkenny County Council and Kilkenny Chamber of Commerce to explore opportunities for further development in Kilkenny. I am sure the Deputy is probably involved in that already but that seems to be an appropriate grouping to maybe advance this project through because if it was to put together a proposal or master plan, it could come up the chain to me thereafter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  The reason that I raise it directly with the Minister this morning is that in those early negotiations, it was clearly stated that Kilkenny would have a significant role in the context of the south-east university, now SETU. I want to see that delivered on because Kilkenny was part of the agreement to establish the headquarters and so in Waterford and the other various activities under SETU. I want to see the commitment that was made to Kilkenny as part of that south-east university honoured. I suggest to the Minister that in honouring the commitment, SETU should be encouraged to discuss the possibility of a Norman study centre.  Kilkenny is associated with animation, thanks to Cartoon Saloon and so on. There is also Kilkenny Design. I am sure there are many other activities and courses that could be arranged in Kilkenny. I am trying to develop the idea and while I understand that the funding request must go from SETU to the Minister, I hope that by reminding the Minister of the commitment that was given, he might encourage discussions to advance what I suggested. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I certainly will, and I am open to proposals coming in from SETU on that. In fact, more than that, the next time I meet with SETU, I will inquire about the status of this proposal and what its intentions are regarding it.  Regarding SETU investment in the region more broadly, one of the most significant enhancements planned for Kilkenny is the development of Kildalton Agricultural College. It will accommodate the new veterinary programme roll-out, which will have 40 student vets attending in the south east for the first time. This will complement the 40 students that will attend the Atlantic Technological University, ATU, in the north west. That is a really exciting programme that specifically includes anatomy and pathology training facilities at Kildalton for the practical side of the training. That will go live this September with 40 new students signed up for that.  As the Deputy suggested, I see the merit in the Norman study centre, and I will raise it when I next meet with SETU. However, in the first instance, it falls on it to come forward with the proposal.  The Deputy was with me when I visited Kilkenny recently to launch the college of the future project. That is moving ahead, and I encourage it to get ready to appoint the design teams. I expect that project to progress rapidly in the near future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  I welcome the development in relation to the ETB and acknowledge the significant contribution it is making in terms of apprenticeships and so on. Regarding the veterinary college at Kildalton, those 40 vets will certainly make a difference. I also believe that Kildalton college can be developed at a rapid pace to bring the numbers up in terms of veterinary students, and it is an excellent site beyond the veterinary designation that it now has.  I come back to the point that it was the goodwill of all concerned many years ago that brought about the establishment of SETU, and the different political players there were given certain commitments and that is why I am pressing the Minister. I know there is investment taking place and that there are different activities, courses and so on but I am simply anxious, as the Minister will appreciate, to ensure that it continues to grow and expand. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I share that ambition. It is important that it has a footprint across the south-east region.  To be fair, we met with Kildalton. We are seeing this at other locations across the south east. I take the point about that particular project, which the Deputy would like to see being advanced more rapidly. That is a fair ask. Kilkenny is a growing city with really strong employment. I worked there with VHI for a number of years, so I am familiar with the potential that the city has in the wider region and how it is already a hub for really strong employers, both domestic and international. There is FDI going into Kilkenny at Purcellsinch business park and other places. That can only continue. The veterinary college that the ETBs are putting in place and that I am supporting will be helpful to that ambition also. I understand that further investment of the type the Deputy proposes will be welcome also. I am certainly happy to take it up with SETU, and I am sure the Deputy will also do so through his own offices. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Technological Universities"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_28","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Further and Higher Education","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_28","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_28.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  The Minister will have heard me many times in this House, at committees and at meetings of the Fianna F\u00e1il parliamentary party advocating for closer collaboration on the delivery of education on an all-Ireland basis. There is fantastic potential, especially in the further and higher education sector. I warmly welcome the Minister\u2019s initiative, along with Dundalk Institute of Technology, DkIT, and Queen\u2019s University, to develop a new partnership that will enable DKIT to become a university college of Queen\u2019s. That is a great all-Ireland development. It is a landmark decision and is of particular value for the entire north-east region and much farther afield. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I thank Deputy Smith for his constant engagement in respect of this matter. I know it is one that is very dear to him. Through his chairmanship of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, he is advancing ties between our jurisdictions all the time and looking to extend cross-border and all-Ireland relationships. I very much share his ambition in that regard.  My Department is engaged in extensive collaboration with the Northern Ireland Executive and the relevant agencies to enhance further and higher education across the island of Ireland. In April, I secured approval from the Cabinet to enable DkIT to join with Queen\u2019s University to enter into a new strategic partnership, the first ever all-Ireland university. It is a really exciting project. We are advancing the legislation, and the drafting is currently under way. I thank the committee for its work on the pre-legislative scrutiny and for engaging with it so proactively. It is a landmark initiative that is fundamental to our shared, all-island missions. It will also enhance research and innovation in the north-east and along the Dublin-Belfast corridor, and provide new opportunities for students and employers.  More broadly, my Department continues to work with the Department of Health to expand cross-border healthcare training, including an agreement with Queen\u2019s Belfast to support 50 Irish-funded undergraduate medical places across the intakes of the last two years. Of course, we have the Creating Futures document, which is the new further education and training strategy that was published a month ago. It looks to strengthen all-island collaboration and foster joint initiatives between ETBs and FET schools here and their equivalents across Northern Ireland.  I worked recently with Caoimhe Archibald, the Northern Ireland Minister for the Economy, to launch the first-ever all-island apprenticeship in the area of accounting technician. We met as part of the Government summit at Farmleigh. We launched that initiative having worked together on it for several months beforehand. We have a number of other initiatives that we are looking at that are along the same lines. Both Departments have secured \u20ac50 million through PEACEPLUS for skills development, which we will continue to roll out. We also have five new online projects being delivered, and there is much more that we can do on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  I thank the Minister for his reply. I must say that members of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, across all jurisdictions, were very strong in their praise of the Minister\u2019s contribution at our plenary meeting in Surrey, where he spoke about the opportunities for all-Ireland developments and also east-west developments.  At a recent meeting of the further and higher education committee, we had the leadership of Queen\u2019s University and the leadership of DkIT. They are very anxious to drive this partnership forward in a positive manner. They very much appreciate the leadership the Minister has shown. One of the great messages that came out of that meeting was the willingness of both Queen\u2019s and Dundalk to work with the other education colleges. They already have a partnership with colleges whereby people can commence a course in a college of further education and then complete their degree course in either Dundalk or Queen\u2019s. They are anxious to intensify that collaboration between the higher education institutes and the further education colleges across Cavan and Monaghan, and in our neighbouring counties north of the Border. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  One project that I did not mention in my initial response is the digital creative industries programme, which is a \u20ac10 million, all-island project supported by shared island capital. It will enhance collaboration with the creative and digital industries in areas like graphic design, movies, the arts and digital arts across both jurisdictions. It is a project that is now live. It was one of the shared island projects in my Department.  Regarding the ETBs and the options for further education and training to work on a cross-border basis, my Department is working with SOLAS to develop a detailed implementation plan for the new Creating Futures FET strategy. One of those actions is to advance all-island collaboration through specific all-island linkages and partnerships to engage with education, training, enterprise and industry stakeholders in Northern Ireland. Of course, we have the Queen\u2019s-DkIT partnership, and there are a number of ancillary projects now coming into being under that, which I look forward to supporting strongly as they come through. In fact, I am inviting proposals for that. I know the Deputy has worked closely with the ETBs in Cavan, Monaghan and elsewhere. If there are projects that he wants to bring to my attention, I would welcome that input. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  As the Minister is aware, we are very anxious to progress the Cavan college of the future. I sincerely hope there will be further developments on that over the summer months. We are anxious to have that major new extension to the existing college constructed on Cathedral Road, right in the centre of Cavan town, where there is a demand for new accommodation. The Minister saw first-hand the work that goes on at the institute. It draws students from a wide area. It has a huge success rate for students fulfilling career choices, following the careers chosen before they went into college and going on to attain further higher education qualifications. It is very important that we move that project along as quickly as possible. The accommodation is needed, and the Minister can be assured that the people, the director of the college and his staff will ensure that the students who attend will get the very best options across all courses, and the best in learning and teaching as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  I thank the Deputy for his invitation to visit that day, along with the Minister of State, Deputy Niamh Smyth. We had a very good engagement in Cavan and then visited the institute. I share the Deputy\u2019s desire to see the college of the future advance at pace. I hope to have a positive announcement on that in the near future. I will certainly be keeping Members apprised of that. It is my intention that the institute would be able to appoint a design team in the coming months, and that we are able to progress with that project, which is much needed. I could see that myself when visiting the site and speaking to learners and educators while traversing the school that is already there. They are doing great work, which will be enhanced by the provision of a capital project for the further training centre, which I hope to be able to support strongly in the coming months. That is a very important project on which I will continue to work.  More broadly, as part of the shared island initiative, there are other projects that fall under the ambit of the Queen\u2019s-DkIT partnership that I intend to support. I also intend to further advance the collaboration on a North-South basis. As I mentioned already, we recently launched the first all-island apprenticeship for accounting technician, and there are a couple of others that are being considered. Where possible, I intend to roll that out and increase the capacity. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Further and Higher Education"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_29","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Third Level Education","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_29","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_29.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  Has the Minister met with the Irish Universities Association regarding gaps in higher education funding? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  The short answer is that I have. I engaged with the Irish Universities Association, IUA, as recently as this morning, when I met Paul Johnston, the director general, at an event. I am very aware of the association's asks. It is something that we are working through with it with regard to future funding. There was a commitment through the national training fund to continue to support the core funding allocation for Irish universities. I sat down with the IUA and we reviewed its pre-budget submission, which has a number of worthwhile asks within it. I am continuing to engage with the IUA on a very regular basis, and also with the Technological Universities Association and other stakeholders within the space. I am very much aware of their asks. We have met their funding requirements for the last couple of years through a new framework emerging from, first, the Cassells report and then the Funding the Future study. That funding is now being committed on a multi-annual basis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  The request from the Irish Universities Association is for \u20ac250 million over the next five years in capital spending to upgrade digital infrastructure in the seven universities, and \u20ac475 million over four years in capital spending to decarbonise universities and create fully sustainable campuses.  We regularly hear about Ireland's ambition to be a global leader in innovation, research and skills. We want to attract investment, develop indigenous enterprise and prepare our workforce for the industries of the future. None of these ambitions can be achieved if our universities are expected to do more each year with increasingly stretched resources. I ask the Minister to continue engaging with them through the budgetary process. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  As I mentioned in response to earlier questions, we have a commitment of \u20ac4.55 billion to the sector more broadly in the capital envelope available through the national development plan, which is record investment and strong support for research and innovation in the higher and further education ecosystems.  I have taken receipt of the IUA's pre-budget submission. I have to go through it. I understand the challenges the sector faces in terms of decarbonisation, digitalisation, globalisation and demographics, something we often speak about in the House. I am very much engaged in that. It is one among many pre-budget submissions that I have received. I will assess it with my officials. There are a number of competing demands on the system, as the Deputy will be aware. We will be able to appraise ourselves and other Members of the House on exactly where they fall in October's budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I want to focus on students. They rightly expect access to modern facilities, smaller class sizes, adequate academic supports and quality learning environments. These expectations become increasingly difficult to meet when institutions are under a sustained financial strain. Ireland has an international reputation for the quality of its higher education system. Protecting that reputation requires investment. It is far more cost-effective to invest now than to allow standards to decline and attempt to rebuild capacity later. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Lawless.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Lawless  Exactly. That is why we have a record \u20ac4.5 billion commitment across the sector. Regarding student facilities, there is the likes of the bundle 2 PPP programme which enhances student facilities on university campuses across the country. I mentioned the targeted enhancement fund, which supports technological universities in their continued growth. The results are coming through. In the last 100 top university rankings, Irish universities were back in the top 100 having fallen out of the list over the past decade or so. We have seen significant progress in terms of international comparators. More fundamentally, student numbers and outputs are growing and many qualifications are being pursued. There are now many diverse pathways through the tertiary education system, including, of course, apprenticeships, which we discussed earlier. It is a success story and we want to make sure it continues to be so. We will continue to invest in and support the sector. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Third Level Education"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_30","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":39,"speakerCount":8},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_30","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" A Deputy","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  T\u00e1 n\u00edos m\u00f3 n\u00e1 \u20ac50 milli\u00fan curtha am\u00fa cheana f\u00e9in ar ch\u00f3ras bainist\u00edochta tr\u00e1chta Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann, c\u00f3ras a theip ar na t\u00e1st\u00e1lacha s\u00e1bh\u00e1la agus t\u00e1 n\u00edos m\u00f3 n\u00e1 dh\u00e1 bhliain taobh thiar de sceideal. Gan dabht, is teip ioml\u00e1n \u00e9. Anois, t\u00e1 s\u00e9 foghlamtha againn go bhfuil na c\u00e1in\u00edoc\u00f3ir\u00ed ag \u00edoc suas le \u20ac100,000 i gcaitheamh le seachtain mar nach bhfuil cinneadh glactha ag an Rialtas n\u00e1 an NTA ar cheart deireadh a chur leis an choradh seo ar fad. Anois air sin, t\u00e1 an Rialtas ag caitheamh \u20ac200,000 eile le fiosr\u00fa c\u00e9n d\u00f3igh a tharla an tubaiste seo ar an ch\u00e9ad dul s\u00edos. Beidh, agus t\u00e1, an pobal ag fiosr\u00fa c\u00e9n uair a gcuirfear deireadh leis an chur am\u00fa ama agus cur am\u00fa airgead poibl\u00ed seo.  Once again, the public is asking who is taking responsibility for the extraordinary waste of taxpayers' money that has become the hallmark of the Government. The latest revelations surrounding the failed Irish Rail traffic management system are absolutely staggering. More than \u20ac50 million has already been blown and written off on a project that has failed safety testing, is more than two years behind schedule and, by any reasonable measure, has been a complete and utter failure. Incredibly, the waste does not end there. We now learn that taxpayers are footing a bill of \u20ac100,000 every single week while a decision is made on whether the contract relating to the project should be terminated. In addition, the Government is spending a further \u20ac200,000 simply to find out how this debacle happened in the first place. Members of the public are rightly asking when the waste of public money under the Government will stop. While tens of millions of euros have been squandered on this failed project, commuters are being told that there is no funding to deliver new bus, rail or rural transport services this year. That is the cost of the Government's waste. Every euro squandered on failed projects is a euro that cannot be invested in better buses, better rail services and better public transport for people who rely on it every single day.  We know from Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann's briefing papers that it asked for the contract relating to this project to be terminated a year ago. The company warned that it had lost confidence in the contractor's ability to deliver the project and recommended that the contract be terminated. The Department was told last October that there were risks relating to this project and that red flags had been raised. Surely the Minister should have been doing his job and should have intervened to try to find out what was going on. The Government has allowed this to continue. A year after Iarnr\u00f3d Eireann's request that the contract be terminated, over \u20ac50 million has been written off and taxpayers are still losing \u20ac100,000 every single week, and there is no end in sight.  This is not simply about one failed contract. It is also about a culture of waste that is tolerated and an absence of accountability. Nobody in government ever appears to carry responsibility for the millions in public money that are squandered. I have lost count of the number of times I have stood here and asked what the Government is going to do to end the constant waste of public money. I will again ask the question again on behalf of the people who are frustrated about the continuation of waste. Fifty million euro is not a small amount of money. It has been completely written off. We are now told that \u20ac100,000 is being paid every week, with no indication as to when this will end. That is the definition of public waste. Who is going to be held responsible for this latest fiasco? Why are taxpayers still being forced to pay \u20ac100,000 every week while this drags on? What immediate steps is the Government going to take to stop further public money being poured into a project that has already become one of the most expensive failures in the history of our public transport system? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  How the Deputy characterised Government spending does not tally with the reality of the situation. More than \u20ac10 billion has been allocated for public transport projects across the country. The overwhelming majority of those projects are on budget, on time and making a real and meaningful difference. The list of projects delivered on time and on budget by this Government includes the national broadband plan, which the Deputy's party actively opposed. Sinn F\u00e9in did not want broadband rolled out to rural communities in Donegal and right across the country. We rolled it out. Sinn F\u00e9in opposed it vigorously. That is true. My party, Fine Gael, was the only party which supported it. We delivered it on time and on budget. Other projects include Rosslare Europort, Luas cross city, Woodbrook train station, the new platform at Kent Station in Cork and the Bray transport interchange. There are countless examples of public money being well used and resulting in projects being delivered on time and on budget. We are investing more in public transport, as we should and as we can, as a result of the strength of our economy.  The Deputy is right to highlight a specific issue regarding the traffic management system, however. The national train control centre building was delivered on time and within budget. Let us acknowledge that. It is currently in use by Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann and by approximately 100 members of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. The new traffic management system to oversee signalling and other railway systems has been delayed beyond its completion date. That is factually correct.  The Minister for Transport met the National Transport Authority, NTA, and the contractor, Indra. The Deputy asked what the Minister is doing. He is engaging intensively. He met the representatives of both entities last year and had further meetings in January of this year regarding the delivery of the traffic management system as soon as possible. A baseline programme has been agreed between Irish Rail, the NTA and the contractor, Indra. Quite rightly, an Oireachtas committee scrutinised this issue yesterday.  I do not accept the Deputy's characterisation that the Government is accepting that the \u20ac50 million gone and that the taxpayer must foot the bill, and neither does the Government. The reality is that the Irish Rail accounts have been submitted for consideration to the Department of Transport. They will also be scrutinised and considered by NewERA, which looks at all these issues. As the Deputy knows and as he would expect us to do, there will be a contract in place. We need to work through the issues. We should not jump to any conclusions about when and where the bill will fall due. I expect the Minister, Irish Rail and NewERA to perform their roles in terms of ensuring that the terms of the contract are delivered upon.  I want to assure people that there are contingency plans in place from a safety point of view. From a railway safety perspective, there is not an issue here. The project is taking longer than it should. No decision has yet been made regarding the approval of the annual accounts. They will be reviewed by the Department and NewERA and then published. There is a way to go in terms of working through this issue.  The Government's record of delivering projects on time and on budget in communities right across this country is there for all to see. When things go wrong and projects are delayed, it is quite right that Oireachtas committees, on a cross-party basis, scrutinise the issues involved, as happened yesterday. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  This project is not just delayed. Does the T\u00e1naiste not know what is going on here? A sum of \u20ac50 million has been written down in the accounts. Irish Rail has formally recommended ending the contract. It has been saying that since last year. It has no confidence that the project can be delivered. This is not just a project that will be delivered in a couple of months' time. The problem is that along with the \u20ac50 million that has been written down in terms of the accounts, \u20ac100,000 is being paid out on a weekly basis because a decision still has not been taken to end this contract. The NTA is telling us it will take months of engagement between it and the Department to make a recommendation.  I say to the T\u00e1naiste very clearly that this is taxpayers' money. The NTA was very clear that there will be no new bus services, no new rail services and no new rural services this year and, yes, the \u20ac50 million could have funded some of that. The NTA representatives were very clear about that yesterday at the committee. I will again ask the T\u00e1naiste some specific questions. Why is the taxpayer on the hook for \u20ac100,000 every week for a project that is not going anywhere? Does he accept that Irish Rail has asked the Government to end the contract? When will the Government ensure that this type of wasting of public money will no longer happen? Crucially, as everybody asks me, who will be held accountable for this? It is not good enough for the T\u00e1naiste to come in, shrug his shoulders and just brush off \u20ac50 million of taxpayers' money being wasted, along with another \u20ac100,000 every single week. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputies  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Of course, it is not and, of course, that is not what I am doing but it will make a great clip on the Deputy's Instagram. It is not the truth. I hope he plays the full----- "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  This is a serious issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  It is a very serious issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Deputies, please allow the T\u00e1naiste to answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  When I am asked about a serious issue, it is nice to be allowed to respond without a cacophony trying to shout me down, as happens every time in this House. I have made a very serious point that Deputy Doherty should not come into this House and make the point that \u20ac50 million is lost to the taxpayer when the State is doing its job in making sure that terms and conditions of contracts are scrutinised, that NewERA, a body we set up to make sure we derive value in the delivery of projects, is doing its jobs and that Oireachtas committees are doing their job as well. We should allow that process to work its way through. That is all I am saying.  I am also making the point that the Deputy's categorisation of Government spending on public projects is not borne out by the facts. He asked about \u20ac50 million. Would he get as exercised if it were \u00a3140 million? In the Department his party runs in Northern Ireland, \u00a3140 million was spent on road projects that have not even started. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine  How boring this is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  That Department is led by a Sinn F\u00e9in Minister and it has wasted \u00a3140 million. Thank God the SDLP highlighted that terrible waste of money. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Are you getting upset? There was the \u00a3300,000 as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  You are pathetic. Do you practise that in front of the mirror every night? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I do not need to, Pearse. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Do you stand there saying, \"I wonder how this looks\"? Honest to God, do you consider even for a minute what the public thinks of it? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Deputy Doherty, please resume your seat. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Sinn F\u00e9in wasters. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  T\u00e1naiste, please stop provoking him. I have called Deputy Cian O'Callaghan. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  You have wasted public money and do not care what taxpayers feel about it. You can go on with your gimmicks all you want. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Deputy Doherty, you are out of order. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Do not point your finger at me, T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  You are out of order, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":" A Deputy","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" A Deputy  TikTok props. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  You are a serial waster, T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I have called Deputy O'Callaghan. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I was waiting for both of them to stop.  President Zelenskyy's visit to Ireland yesterday was cut short due to another deadly attack on Ukraine. At least 17 people were killed and more than 50 injured overnight after missiles rained down on Kyiv. As we speak, emergency workers are at a collapsed nine-storey apartment searching for survivors in rubble. This is the biggest attack on Kyiv since the war began. The mayor has declared a day of mourning tomorrow to remember those killed.  This has been the reality of life in Ukraine for more than four years now - death, destruction and devastation from attacks by Russia. According to an independent investigation, some of the weapons used in those attacks are made with raw materials manufactured in Ireland. Yesterday, President Zelenskyy said as much. He criticised the EU's failure to sanction companies still under the effective control of Russian oligarchs. He said: \"Every tonne of raw material that ends up in Russia is used against us in this war.\"  In March, The Irish Times published details of an extensive investigation it carried out with the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project. It revealed that alumina produced in Ireland is being used by Russia to manufacture weapons that are killing Ukrainians. The Government is fully aware of this but has refused to act on the evidence. Instead, it has commissioned its own inquiry into the matter. How much evidence does the Government need? What exactly is it looking for?  The foot dragging by the Government is in sharp contrast to the actions of the Australians. They did not need to conduct any investigation before they acted back in 2022. As soon as Putin invaded Ukraine, they banned all exports of alumina to Russia. They did not want to be complicit in the murder of men, women and children in Ukraine. More than four years later, exports of alumina from Ireland have at least doubled and the Government is still burying its head in the sand and refusing to do what everybody knows is needed. It needs to ban the export of alumina to Russia.  These delaying tactics are not just immoral and damaging to Ireland's international reputation. They have made the risk to the almost 500 jobs at Aughinish Alumina much worse. When Putin invaded Ukraine more than four years ago, 23% of exports from the plant went to Russia. That figure has at least doubled since then, if not tripled. If the Government is scrambling around trying to find alternative markets for the company, that work is now much more difficult.  The Government cannot keep beating its chest about support for Ukraine in public while, in private, it knowingly facilitates the export of alumina to Russia, which is ending up in weapons that are killing Ukrainians. I ask the T\u00e1naiste to be specific in answering my questions. When will the Government's investigation be completed, what kind of evidence is it looking for that it does not already have and when will it stop this pretence and ban the export of alumina to Russia? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank the Deputy. The first thing we must do here is be very careful in our language. There is no pretence from the Government of Ireland to the people of Ireland or any party in this House in relation to the horrific, illegal and brutal war Russia is carrying out on Ukraine. President Zelenskyy certainly did not feel any pretence when he was here yesterday; quite the opposite, in fact. We decided as a country, as we decided as a Government, that we wanted to be joined here in Ireland by President Zelenskyy on the first day of our Presidency of the Council of the European Union, which we were, to show solidarity with the people of Ukraine and support for his courage and the inspiration he is providing to his own people and, indeed, to all Europeans.  This country and this Government have acted in support of Ukraine and the people of Ukraine at every opportunity. We need only look at the number of people we have supported in terms of refuge, with the opening of homes and hearths, the amount of financial assistance we are giving and the support we provide to Ukraine in terms of its journey towards European Union membership. While there is a legitimate issue of importance here, it can in no way muddy the waters in terms of the very clear, consistent and unequivocal stance taken by the people of Ireland and the Government of Ireland, which, I think, reflects the political consensus in the Oireachtas, in terms of support for Ukraine. I join the Deputy in condemning the horrific attack on Kyiv last night. It is just another reminder that Putin has no interest in peace and, therefore, we must continue the process in terms of sanctions and hurting the Russian economy where it matters by applying maximum pressure to Putin and his regime to end this brutal and illegal war.  In relation to Aughinish Alumina, the first thing to say is that it is the European Commission, not EU member states, that proposes sanctions. The Commission proposes sanctions and member states ultimately vote on those packages of sanctions. The Government has supported every single package of sanctions. We believe in sanctions. We have had 21 packages of sanctions in regard to Russia and I hope we can see the development during our Presidency of a 22nd package of sanctions.  We need to establish the facts in respect of Aughinish Alumina. I think President Zelenskyy understands that. Indeed, I think he appreciates the work that is being carried out in that regard. This issue would have been discussed when he met yesterday with the Taoiseach and the Minister, Deputy McEntee. The European Commission is being kept fully plugged in to the information coming out of the investigation. My understanding is that the investigation is nearing finalisation. I do not want to cut across that process. I again make the point, which I made this morning, that I do not think it is a binary choice, which the Deputy is not suggesting it is, between supply chains and sanctions. We have seen time and again that Europe has had to diversify and find workarounds and other ways. We are very clear in our minds and in our position that we cannot cherry-pick when it comes to sanctions.  What we are doing is establishing the facts. We have received information from a variety of sources, including the Ukrainian Government. We are plugged in with the European Commission. That information is now being stress-tested and I expect the process to come to a conclusion very shortly.  We will keep the European Commission fully briefed. Ultimately, it will be the European Commission and not the Irish Government that will decide whether to propose sanctions or not on a company or individual. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  Australia acted more than four years ago, as soon as Putin invaded Ukraine, because it did want to have anything to do with the supply of raw material to Putin's war machine. It was abundantly clear to Australia that it needed to act and it did so. More than four years later, the Government has not acted. That is despite the growing evidence staring the Government in the face. Exports of alumina from Ireland since the invasion began have at least doubled, if not tripled. According to Swedish tax authorities, the plant in Aughinish is controlled by a Russian oligarch who is a supporter and close ally of Putin. We had the independent investigation published in March showing that alumina going from Ireland was being sent to Russia to smelters where it was making aluminium that was then being used by the Russian military. What more evidence does the Government need before it acts? When will it act on this? When will it stop these exports? When will it take the kind of action that is needed to show that we actually do as a country stand in solidarity with Ukraine in everything we do? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Australia is obviously not in the European Union, so it has taken its own decisions on measures and sanctions imposed on Russia. We have imposed sanctions as part of the European Union, not on one, two or three occasions, but on 21 occasions. We have been very clear that, during the Irish Presidency of the Council of the European Union, we want to work with other member states on developing further sanctions. Be it from a defence, security or economic point of view, the best way of having impact on Putin is through financial sanctions. We remain absolutely committed and resolute on that. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, will be working with her colleagues through the Foreign Affairs Council, FAC. The Taoiseach, everyone else and I will be working to continue to maximise the pressure on Russia.  Alumina has not been classified as a dual-use product. There has been on many occasions, as the Deputy will remember, information around the plant in Limerick. On many occasions, it has been assessed by Europe and the US and the assurances given have been satisfactory at the time. The Deputy is right that new information has come into the public domain. That is not an investigation in itself. It has to be investigated and facts have to be established. We, as a member state, are providing the maximum amount of information and facts to the European Commission. It will be the European Commission that will decide whether sanctions should be imposed on any company. Let not the word go out in any way contradictory to this from this national Parliament: the people of Ireland deplore the actions of Putin, as does this Government, and we will take every step we can to support the people of Ukraine for as long as it takes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  The EU Presidency gives Ireland the opportunity to set the agenda, lead discussions and influence decisions that will be felt across Europe, including Ireland, in the coming years. We should use that opportunity ambitiously. Over the next six months, there will be hundreds of meetings and countless headlines, but for the families struggling with the cost-of-living crisis here and with issues like accessing childcare, none of this will matter unless we can deliver results that work for them.  The Government has identified priorities, including strengthening competitiveness, enlargement, security and delivering an EU budget. The decisions taken over the coming months will shape Ireland and Europe more widely for years to come. A major objective is advancing EU enlargement, and President Zelenskyy coming yesterday underscored that. Ireland, rightly, strongly supports Ukrainian membership. However, enlargement must be accompanied by reform. We must streamline how the EU institutions make their decisions. We have repeatedly seen how a single veto can paralyse the European Union. If Europe is to become larger, it must also become more effective and make decisions faster.  The most important challenge that the Government may face is the multi-annual financial framework, MFF. There are growing demands to increase funding for security, research and competitiveness, all of which is understandable, but with that comes pressure to divert funding from agriculture and cohesion, which Ireland has often pulled from. As a significant net contributor, Ireland has influence. We must use that influence wisely. The Government must insist that new priorities be funded through new EU revenues, not through cuts to the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP. Ireland must place food security firmly on the agenda. This means protecting agricultural land, supporting family farms and ensuring that Europe remains capable of feeding itself. Food security is no longer a future issue. This summer, Europe is once again experiencing prolonged droughts and extreme weather events, damaging harvests and reducing output. Europe cannot allow itself to become increasingly dependent on imports of food while simultaneously reducing its own capacity for production. Ireland must firmly stand against attempts to weaken the CAP and undermine investment to protect Ireland and Europe's long-term food security.  I have four questions. Will Ireland support institutional reform of the EU to ensure that decisions on issues like Palestine and enlargement of the EU bloc can happen quickly? Does the Government support the EU having new revenue sources to fund new priorities? Will it ensure that the next EU budget continues to fund food security? Will the CAP be protected? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank the Deputy for the question. Let me assure him and the people of the country that while the Government is very pleased that Ireland has the Presidency of the Council of the European Union for the next six months, we take seriously the Deputy's point about the domestic agenda. I would make two points on this. Governments have to do more than one thing at a time. There are 97 days until the budget, if anyone is counting. We are continuing to work on a budget that will address many of the cost-of-living issues that were highlighted, namely, a personal income tax package, childcare and how we can make structural progress on issues that are of concern to the Deputy's constituents and mine.  The second point I would make - in fairness, the Deputy has acknowledged this - is that the work at European level is not decoupled from the important impact on our own citizens. We are of Europe and in Europe. We are at the heart of Europe, so having a successful Presidency on issues such as competitiveness and budgetary matters will have an important and positive impact on people in this country.  Regarding the multi-annual financial framework, it is a commitment of the European Council that Europe would seek to agree its multi-annual budget for 2028 onwards before the end of this year. That is an important thing to do. At a time when there is a lot of uncertainty in the world, we have to look at what certainty we can bring to it. In the European Union, it is entirely within our gift to agree a budget, so why not do that and provide that certainty to our citizens and businesses and to those who wish to invest when there is so much uncertainty in the world? Ireland's job will be to intensively engage with member states as an honest broker, hear their views and, ultimately, publish a negotiating box - a new compromise proposal, so to speak - towards the end of September, but more likely the start of October. At that point, it will get sent to the European Council and fall to the President, Ant\u00f3nio Costa, to work with European leaders to seek an agreement.  There are different views on the budget. Some members think that the proposed size is too large and some that it is too small. It is not too dissimilar to a domestic budget - everyone has ideas on new things to spend money on. It is often harder to find agreement on how to fund those things. There is a need to continue to fund important programmes like the CAP and the social cohesion funds. We are also living in a new world in terms of defence and security, the green transition and the digital transition. Ireland's job, which is not easy, is to try to find a balance among all of those things.  On the issue of institutional reform, Ireland is always open to exploring ways for the European Union not to have to work at the pace of the slowest member state. However, at the same time, our diversity is our strength and we have to operate within the treaties. We are always willing to have those conversations.  The point about new money for new initiatives was a fair one. During our Presidency, we have been tasked by the President of the European Council to look at the issue of own resources. Any decision on own resources has to be something that can pass the European Council and be deliverable in terms of having a real impact by 2028. I do not underestimate the significance of that. We have to act as an honest broker by not prejudicing the budgetary process. However, issues such as food security, agrifood and protecting the agricultural sector, not just in Ireland, but across the European Union, are core, vital issues for any MFF. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  We both know that Europe works by consensus and that there is only so much we can do to facilitate as an honest broker. While competitiveness is incredibly important, with the capital markets union and the 28th regime coming forward, workers' rights were not mentioned once yesterday at the event in Dublin Castle. This gives us an opportunity to bring the Irish people with us rather than this Presidency just being felt within the bubble of Leinster House. I am not sure if people outside these walls understand its importance or understand it will directly affect them. This question is at national level rather than supranational level, but what concrete milestones does the Government have in mind for us to achieve during the six months we have the Presidency that will benefit Irish people outside the walls of Leinster House? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  That is a very fair question. Europe can often seem something remote, so it is our collective job to do as the Deputy said and bring it home in terms of the real impact it makes. I think workers' rights were mentioned, but if they were not, they should have been because they are very much a core part of competitiveness. We cannot make our economies more competitive and grow our wealth without the workers who run the industries and deliver that productivity.  There is a whole load of areas where Irish people can expect to see benefits. To give the Deputy one, the whole issue of online safety for children is a core concern for parents right across this country and, I would argue, right across this Union. There is a very clear commitment in our Presidency's priorities to make progress on that. We have always been of the view that it is most impactful if it can happen at an EU level. If it cannot, we reserve the right to take our own action here. Listening to the comments of President von der Leyen, there is a real chance that we could make progress on that during the Irish Presidency.  In terms of providing access to funding and investment for Irish businesses, including SMEs, getting an agreement on a savings and investment union and on deepening our capital markets union will benefit Irish businesses. Of course, reaching an agreement on the MFF will provide certainties for farmers and fishers. There are many more examples, too.  As the House continues to reflect during this six-month period, we should look at making the work being done at Presidency level relevant to people, because it certainly is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Today, I am raising the issue of wind farms and their health implications. A number of weeks ago, I was copied into a serious letter from the Communities and Environmental Protection Alliance, CEPA, to the Minister of Health. I am informed that there has been no response, not even an acknowledgement. Representatives from five counties are in the Public Gallery today. They are from Limerick, Mayo, Kilkenny, Wicklow and Offaly, including members of the Stonestown community in County Offaly who live beside the Cloghan wind farm. For more than three years, that community has raised noise complaints with the local authority, the HSE and the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA. The crucial point is that the HSE environmental health service examined the matter, visited the community and requested a public health investigation into the complaints. The public health section denied it. One part of the health service was looking for an investigation but the Department's public health section denied it. I want to understand why. The HSE is our expert public health agency. If its own environmental health service believes a matter warrants further investigation, what justification does the Department of Health have to refuse its request?  This is not an isolated issue. In Limerick, there are long-running complaints relating to turbine noise and shadow flicker in Kilmeedy and Morristown. In County Clare, the HSE investigated a wind farm following complaints and at the request of the local authority. I have a copy of that investigation.  The T\u00e1naiste and I met CEPA a number of years ago and we discussed these complaints. The Taoiseach is on the record 13 years ago saying that there are health implications to wind farms. There is something that I want the T\u00e1naiste and all other Members sitting around the House today to do. There are two children sitting in the Public Gallery with their parents, a 12-year-old and a ten-year-old. I want the T\u00e1naiste to tell them that he is going to sit there and not investigate the issues and hide things until 2030. Their parents get complaints that they have to come to school because their children are falling asleep in class. If it was the T\u00e1naiste's child, how would he feel as a parent? Would he deny this for 13 years? Would he deny it for ten minutes if it was his child?  It has been proven without doubt that there are health implications to wind turbines in certain areas. I am not against wind turbines in areas where they do not have health implications, but this one does. So, when the T\u00e1naiste is giving his reply, I want him to think of the children and families this is affecting. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy O'Donoghue. It is not the first time he has raised this issue. I acknowledge his genuine interest and active involvement in this issue.  I am consistently on the record on the importance of publishing new guidelines in relation to wind energy and wind farms. I am a believer, as I believe the Deputy said he was, in the switch to renewable energy. It is really important. We have seen what happens when we live in a country that is too reliant on fossil fuel. We all know that. We can have debates about how to make that transition but our country is still addicted to fossil fuel. The impact of that on consumers and citizens in the Deputy's constituency and mine every time somebody makes a decision thousands of kilometres from here is not an abstract thing any more. It has happened not once, but twice in the last five years and plunged us into challenges like the cost-of-living crisis and real difficulties for people. We all accept that point and are not rowing on that point or debating it.  What the Deputy is saying is that it is important that there be guidelines that are clear, evidence based and published. The Deputy will remember the Planning and Development Act, which passed through this House at the end of 2024. That replaced ministerial guidelines with a new structure of national planning statements. It is a more robust and better process. Work is nearing conclusion on a national planning statement in relation to this issue. That needs to provide certainty and clarity on who can and cannot build a wind farm, where they can be built, the distance, the flicker and a number of the other issues the Deputy has raised.  I hear different things. I am not getting into a row or dispute with anybody, but I am told that in Offaly, for example, the council has been extensively engaging. Perhaps people have different views but that is what I have heard from my engagement with Deputy Clendennen on this. It is important that people engage. It is important that the planning authority engage and take on board the views of local communities. It is most important that we have clarity, as we need renewable energy. We need to make that switch with a sense of urgency. In fairness to everybody, including the children, communities and constituents the Deputy referenced, settling the question once and for all and having clarity as to what an appropriate distance is will be useful. We had Private Members' legislation on this matter from, I believe, Deputy Stanley. The Government took the decision not to oppose that but to have a timed amendment to provide that space for the new national planning statement to conclude. On foot of Deputy O'Donoghue raising this matter, I have asked the Minister, Deputy Browne, and the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, to revert to him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  I thank the T\u00e1naiste. The issue here is the inconsistency. In the D\u00fan Laoghaire\u2013Rathdown area, all noise complaints received by the local authority are investigated by the HSE. Residents in Offaly and Limerick are wondering why this other approach is being taken in their case and why it depends on what county one lives in whether one gets investigations. It is inconsistency that is going on here. Why should access to a health investigation depend on the county where somebody lives? We can see that it is different in D\u00fan Laoghaire.  It has been more than two years since the T\u00e1naiste met CEPA and the people with the wind farms. I want the T\u00e1naiste to meet them and the people in Offaly. I will attend as well. I would also like to have the Minister for Health there to meet these people and to see if we can relieve concerns and meet young people and their families' entitlement to a night's sleep. This cannot go on for more years. We have been talking about this for years. We must think of the health implications and how we can help. Will the T\u00e1naiste agree to meet CEPA and family groups with the Minster for Health and me? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I am at this long enough to know not to start making diary commitments on the floor of the D\u00e1il. However, the Government will continue to engage with communities on this issue. Indeed, the Deputy has referenced some of my own constituents. Obviously, I engage with my own constituents. I am happy to do that also.  I am not across the level of detail the Deputy has just given me - let me reflect on that - but the point he makes around inconsistency in general is an issue we want to stamp out. A planning system does well when it is consistent. That is one of the reasons we changed the rural planning guidelines this week. It is one of the reasons we are changing the exempted development guidelines. Particularly in a small country, we should not have a different approach to planning from one place versus another above and beyond normal norms that local authorities may wish to have.  The purpose of moving to national planning statements is to move away from those inconsistencies. I accept, and it would be wrong and disingenuous to suggest anything to the contrary, that it has taken a very significant period of time to get to the new wind guidelines. It is true. I know it is a cause of significant frustration for communities, as it was when Deputy O'Donoghue and I had that meeting. However, I would point out that a lot has changed since, including the Planning and Development Act. It is really important that these new standards be up to date with the best possible information, and----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Will the T\u00e1naiste meet us? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  -----I expect that to happen this year. I will certainly arrange for a meeting to take place with the Government in terms who the appropriate people are. I will revert to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  In April and May, members of the Irish Defence Forces' 1st Armoured Cavalry Squadron travelled to the Fort Benning in the US, where they achieved historic success at the 2026 Sullivan Cup, becoming the first non-American team to win the competition since it began in 2012, and this while using fighting vehicles with which they had no previous familiarity. We frequently speak here of the pride we have in the Defence Forces, but this is yet another example of how the men and women of the Irish Defence Forces continue to distinguish themselves internationally.  I come, as the T\u00e1naiste knows, from a constituency where the Defence Forces are at the heart of every aspect of our community. I have watched as the strength of our Defence Forces has declined over the past decade or more, and while recognising something of a stabilisation and upturn in recruitment in recent years, I have to say that I am profoundly concerned at the current strength of our forces, standing, as it does, at just 7,741 personnel across the three services - Army, Naval Service and Air Corps.  It is a disappointment that, as we take the EU Presidency and rightly commit to spending more on defence, we have not succeeded in boosting our force numbers to what could be considered an acceptable level. The establishment figure stood at 9,739 personnel in 2025, with a target to move towards the Commission on the Defence Forces' recommendation of 11,500 personnel by 2028. However, by having a policy of 400 recruits per year, it means it will take us ten years to get to the establishment figure.  I accept that the Government has acted to significantly improve pay and conditions but much more needs to be done. I acknowledge that the Government accepts that there is a structural deficiency in the cadet pay system, which is a real disincentive to young men and women joining the officer corps. A return to the traditional pension scheme and a total abandonment of the single pension scheme would also help.  At a time when we can be happy to boast of full employment arising from the diligence of the Irish population and the sound economic policies pursued by successive Governments, we have to ask ourselves where the new recruits are to come from. The Government needs to be creative in how it approaches this challenge, but it needs to be approached in a far more resolute manner than it has to date. If the required level cannot be achieved because the population is already at work in other areas, a question arises as to whether there are people in the State not at work or in education who could be encouraged, via some form of voluntary national service to sign up with our Permanent Defence Force.  Let us look, if we can for a minute, at the health service. I recently reviewed stats that revealed that 40% of all practising doctors in Ireland were foreign trained. The same set of stats indicates that 54% of practising nurses in Ireland trained abroad and a staggeringly massive 78% of new nursing registrants in 2024 came from abroad. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl and I join with him in congratulating and commending those involved in the Sullivan Cup and the success they brought to themselves and our country. I acknowledge not just Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl's interest in our Defence Forces, but his long-standing advocacy on behalf of them, which is coloured in part, I am sure, by the community and constituency in which he lives and, therefore, the knowledge he has in regard to that lived experience in County Kildare.  I am proud of our Defence Forces. Every day, I am proud of the men and women of \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann and how they serve our country with distinction. I was particularly proud of them yesterday and they do an excellent job on ceremonial and security occasions for this country. I was very proud of them when I visited them in Lebanon in the not-too-distant past. I saw the incredible contribution they made to peacekeeping in some of the most dangerous and troubled parts of our world and the hope they gave to the people of Lebanon of one day seeing a brighter, peaceful future. The links they have built with communities there and the trust they have of the local people are quite inspiring.  The Deputy is right to say we should be proud of them. He is also right to say that we all need to do a hell of a lot more. We are absolutely committed to that - the Minister, Deputy McEntee, the wider Government and Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl. We need to increase the numbers and strengthen retention. It is positive to see, after years of this going in the other direction, that we are moving back into a period of growth in regard to the numbers in our Permanent Defence Force. I believe there was growth of nearly 200 last year, with 790 inductions. There is a target of 850 inductions for this year. Overall application numbers for careers in the Defence Forces continue to grow. There were - this is quite a staggering figure - 16,510 applications received in 2025 and more than 10,000 received to the end of May 2026. That tells us something. It tells us that at an initial moment of time, there are a hell of a lot of people interested in serving in \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. What we need to do, and what the Defences Forces need to do and are doing, is work out how they can convert that high level of applications into a much higher level of inductions. I acknowledge the work that the Defence Forces are doing in preparing a new strategic workforce plan. I believe it has been submitted to the Department, which has a number of recommendations and modelling tools as well. The aim of this process is to provide that pathway to achieving a strength of 11,500, inclusive of civilian personnel.  There has been progress in regard to cadets and pay. Upon commissioning, an officer's starting salary ranges from \u20ac46,823 to \u20ac52,265, depending on whether they join as a school-leaver or a graduate. The Minister has had discussions with the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, agreeing to give further consideration to the issue of cadet pay prior to commissioning. That process is ongoing, which is important. We have the current public service pay agreement as well, which members of the Permanent Defence Force are part of, too.  I take the Deputy's point. We need to significantly increase the numbers further and, at the same time, we need to increase the capabilities. Indeed, increasing capabilities without the personnel to utilise those capabilities will not be adequate. Therefore, we are looking at ways of turning that very significant level of interest in applications into a faster level of induction. That work is ongoing and the new workforce plan will assist. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl  People with far greater knowledge than I have are deeply sceptical about the number of applications that are being shown, but anyway. I want to go back to that comparison with the health service because, for me, it raises the legitimate question of whether we should be looking overseas to secure recruits. If we were to do so, we should be looking at countries where Irish Aid is active and where we could recruit members to the Permanent Defence Force on fixed-term contracts to allow us achieve the strength level required in our Defence Forces to fulfil their mandate.  Many national armed forces make formal or informal provisions to recruit non-nationals. Reasons vary, including historical regimental practice, manpower shortfalls, diaspora links or pathways to citizenship, but the result is the same: foreigners in regular state militaries. The French Foreign Legion, for example, offers a five-year contract, I understand. It would be of dual benefit for such a foreign recruitment process, delivering, as it would if linked to Irish Aid, necessary numbers for our own forces and providing a degree of financial support for families coping with war and the ravages of climate change in disadvantaged countries. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I take that point because I hear it often. You see it in Garda numbers as well - the number of people who initially apply and how \"serious\" the applications are if only a very small percentage turns into inductions. There must be something in it, in the sense that the gap between the level of applications and inductions is very high. The Defence Forces is working through its strategic workforce plan to seek to make improvements on that.  My own sense, for what it is worth, is that there can be people who apply at a moment in time. There are a lot of opportunities out there for people now and if you do not strike while the iron is hot and get them in while the interest is there, you can lose them. Faster processing and processes are important. Regardless of applications, inductions are thankfully rising. The size of the Permanent Defence Force is growing again.  The issue the Deputy raised about recruiting from abroad is one I do not want to give a knee-jerk response to on the floor of the D\u00e1il because it deserves policy consideration and the views of the Minister for Defence, but I will certainly ask that she revert to the Deputy on it.  Technology is also going to change security and defence, the skill sets that we will need in our Defence Forces and the roles of people in \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. The opportunities that may exist there and the careers that may present are also worth considering, but we will keep in touch on this. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation","counts":{"speechCount":42,"speakerCount":20},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter Roche","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-Roche.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-Roche.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  For months, the Government has tried to present abolishing the triple lock as a reasonable and necessary change. Yesterday, however, the Taoiseach made the implications of that decision crystal clear. He argued that Ireland must be free to participate in EU military missions without a United Nations mandate.  That marks a profound shift in Irish defence and foreign policy. It weakens one of the key safeguards underpinning Ireland\u2019s military neutrality. As the Government today rolls out the red carpet for Ursula von der Leyen amid the EU\u2019s increasing militarisation, those safeguards matter now more than ever. Why is the Government so determined to remove one of the fundamental protections of Irish neutrality? Why should the Irish people accept that abandoning the UN safeguard is in Ireland\u2019s national interest? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  When the Deputy uses phrases like \u201crolls out the red carpet\u201d for the President of the European Commission, the mask kind of slips. It is a sharp reminder that Sinn F\u00e9in has opposed every single European referendum, including the one to join the European Union. It is a Eurosceptic party; it has been since its foundation. If it were up to Sinn F\u00e9in, Ireland would not be in the European Union because it opposed joining it. It is nothing to do with the colour of the carpet, but more to do with Sinn F\u00e9in\u2019s politically inward-looking ideology.  In relation to the triple lock, this is an act of sovereignty. We do not believe that the British Prime Minister, the US President, the Chinese President or the Russian President should decide where we send the men and women of \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. As someone who has stood with our troops in Lebanon - I do not think Deputy Doherty has - I believe they should be able to continue doing their excellent peacekeeping work there but they cannot because people who are not the Deputy or me have made that decision. If other European countries came together to continue peacekeeping in Lebanon, I would like Ireland to have been involved in that conversation because I am proud of the decades of tradition of the men and women in \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. However, other people - not me, the Deputy or the Oireachtas - have decided that is not possible.  Removing the triple lock is in the programme for Government. It should not come as a surprise to anyone on any side of the House that we intend to change this legislation because it was voted through as part of the programme for Government. The Minister will take the legislation through this House in the course of this year. It is an important reform. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  Last Wednesday, the Traveller committee published a damning report on Traveller health inequality. The statistics show extreme levels of inequality due to systemic discrimination, racism and neglect by the State. The statistics speak for themselves. Suicide rates for Travellers are six times higher and infant mortality three and a half times higher, while life expectancy is over a decade shorter for Traveller women and 15 years shorter for Traveller men. These statistics are alarming, but all we have gotten is silence from the Minister for Health, the HSE and the Department. Has the Government considered this report? Was it discussed at Cabinet this week? What is the Government going to do about it?  The report calls for a radical and urgent change of direction from Departments, State agencies and public services. It calls for the introduction of an ethnic identifier across every public service, as called for as far back as 2010 but not implemented. It also calls for an annual parliamentary account mechanism whereby the Minster for Health comes to the D\u00e1il every single year and reports to us on what he or she has done on these recommendations. This cannot be allowed to sit on the shelf and gather dust like all the other reports. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I reject the idea that any report has sat on the shelf and gathered dust. I have had many engagements with the Traveller community in a whole variety of roles, most particularly in the education space. Indeed, it was my party in government that recognised Traveller as an ethnicity, which was an important moment for members of the Traveller community.  The report is a valuable piece of work. It highlights stark inequalities and discrimination that still exists in this Republic. Certainly, I and the Government as a whole will give it consideration. I will also ask the Minister for Health to come back to the Deputy directly on what is quite a damning report in terms of the level of progress that still needs to be made in our country to improve outcomes for Travellers across a whole variety of areas. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  The Minister for justice, as part of his long-running campaign for the Fianna F\u00e1il leadership, is in the process of critically undermining our system of criminal justice. He has introduced a new fee structure for District Court criminal legal aid without proper engagement or consultation with the practitioners involved. The Minister is asking criminal law solicitors to run entire cases for the same amount that he would have charged for one hour of his own time as a commercial law senior counsel. The Minister now refuses to publish the underlying data being used to justify the move to a flat fee. If the evidence is as the Minister says, why will he not publish it? I would have thought he would be familiar with the concept of discovery, whereby the other side in a case can test the evidence being relied on.  Solicitors are resigning en masse across the country from legal aid panels. It is awful to see. Will the T\u00e1naiste intervene? Is Fine Gael happy to see criminal prosecutions being put at risk? Will he ensure there is a pause to allow for engagement and consultation? Will he ensure the underlying data informing the Department\u2019s report is published? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Ahern for that colourful intervention, but on an important matter. The Minister for justice has introduced an 8% increase in criminal legal aid fees payable to solicitors and barristers in both the Circuit Court and High Court from 1 July. This is now a total restoration of criminal legal aid fees cut under the financial emergency measures in the public interest, FEMPI. He has also proposed, and is trying to bring about reform with, a move to a flat-fee model. I would also point out that he has moved on the level of that fee. The figure represents the current fee paid for five appearances in the District Court, plus an 8% increase. The weighted average of appearances by a solicitor in criminal cases legally aided is five, but many cases obviously require fewer appearances to be concluded.  Everyone wants to see progress on this. The Minister is pursuing a reform agenda. No one wants to see justice in any way delayed or disrupted. I am informed that no solicitor has formally resigned or withdrawn their name from the criminal legal aid panel, but I have certainly heard media commentary to the contrary. I think three solicitors wrote to the Department indicating they would be seeking to withdraw from the panel, but I hope a resolution can be found. I understand and support the reforms the Minister is trying to bring about. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  Last week, I asked the Taoiseach when homeowners could expect the review of the remediation of dwellings Act, following the publication of IS 465, to be completed. His response was that it could take approximately three months to report to the committee and that the homeowners already know this. Will the T\u00e1naiste provide a clear timeline as to when the necessary amending legislation will be published, enacted, communicated and commenced? Given that the science is now clear, the Government must ensure long-outstanding appeals for downgraded homeowners are determined without any further delay. They have been waiting over 18 months.  Replies to parliamentary questions suggest that homeowners who were recommended remediation measures under the original scheme, such as outer leaf replacement, may be entitled to a review under the new IS 465. However, I have yet to receive clarification on this. Can the T\u00e1naiste confirm that those homeowners will be entitled to a technical review? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I may have to ask the Minister to come back on some of the specifics, but I know that the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 sets out a clear process for what should happen when a new standard is made available. It requires that a review of the operation of the Act commences within three months of that standard being published. The Minister for housing now intends to commence a review of the operation of the Act in the coming weeks. I will ask him to keep in close contact with the Deputy on that.  In the meantime, the scheme can continue to operate and fix homes for many homeowners who have already received a determination and a grant amount under the former scheme. I will ask the Minister to come back to the Deputy specifically on those questions. We hope the review will be under way within weeks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  Scoil Padre Pio in Churchfield, Cork, is a DEIS plus school catering for five special needs classes. They are operating in prefabs installed in 2005. The prefabs are now costing the State roughly \u20ac110,000 per year to maintain. Additionally, despite the energy grants, it is costing the school about \u20ac34,000 per year to heat those prefabs with storage heaters. The school has been stuck at stage 2 for the last three years. It has not been accepted onto the list for 2026-27. I invite the T\u00e1naiste, along with the Minister, to visit the school. It is an absolutely fantastic school. It is a treasure. People from all over the city try to get access to the school because of the tremendous work it does with children with special needs. I ask the T\u00e1naiste to come down on his next visit to Cork, perhaps with the Minister, to visit the school. Let us get the school moving along the line. Let us get the planning permission granted and over the line to the next stage so we can build this. When this was first announced, it was a \u20ac2 million project. We are now looking at a \u20ac7 million project and I am fearful that, if we let it go on, it will hit \u20ac10 million. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I would be happy to visit Scoil Padre Pio. If the Deputy wants to liaise with me, I will make arrangements to do that in due course in the new school year. I thank the school, based on what the Deputy has told me, for the leadership role it is playing in the provision of special education. I will certainly speak with the Minister, Deputy Naughton, about the school building project.  What I would say all Members of this House, including Deputy O'Flynn, is that while we have announced a significant increase in capital funding for schools, it is not the final word on the matter. There will be a requirement for additional capital funding for school projects. There are quite a number at stage 2b. The Government has additional capital to allocate as part of our medium-term fiscal plan and we will work our way through that in the time ahead. I am happy to engage and I will ask the Minister to look specifically into the building project. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Erin McGreehan  The T\u00e1naiste might have heard that there is a bit of excitement in Louth at the moment. I do not know if anyone has missed it, but Louth is into its first All-Ireland football semi-final since 1957. This is not just one brilliant season for Louth GAA, however. Louth GAA is on the rise and, thankfully, so too is our stadium. We have a valid application under the large-scale infrastructure fund for phase 2 of our project. Phase 1 is being built and is nearly finished. We are ready and we need to keep this funding going. Where projects elsewhere are not in a position to draw down their allocation, will the Department consider reprioritising funding towards projects that are ready to proceed?  There is little point in having money sitting idle when communities are ready to deliver. Our stadium is becoming a field of dreams for all of us Gaelic lovers and sports lovers in County Louth. The county board, players and supporters are all doing their part and we ask the Government to finish the job. Louth has shown we are ready to compete with the best on the pitch and I want the Government to help us build a stadium that matches that ambition and success. Who knows, if we keep winning we might come back here and ask for more money for a bigger stadium, but we will be happy with the money for our current plans. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  That contribution made me smile to see the positivity, infectiousness and county pride the GAA can bring. I look forward to attending that game because, of course, what the Deputy did not say in her contribution, is that County Wicklow is in the Tailteann Cup final on the same day, just before that match. Wicklow will beat Down and then Louth and Mayo I am not getting involved in, but I wish everybody well.  I take the point about the large-scale projects. Indeed, I had an opportunity quite a while ago to meet with some of the Louth county board members while I was in Louth, and I know how serious this project is. It is the county that has the outstanding need for those county grounds. I have spoken to the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Donovan, about it before. On foot of the Deputy raising it today, I will talk to him again and ask him to come back to the Deputy directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  Dublin is buzzing with headline gigs, from Katy Perry and Calvin Harris to CMAT and many more, as well as many sporting events. However, what we do not have is a national major event transport planning framework. We really need this. It is impacting on people's decisions on where to go. People from Skerries and Balbriggan simply will not go to Marlay Park any more because getting home is too difficult. Will the T\u00e1nasite please talk to the Minister for Transport and instruct him to require the NTA to pull together a planning framework? If necessary, it needs to be a condition of licensing that a transport plan, bringing together event organisers, venues, local authorities, An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the transport operator, is co-ordinated by the NTA so that people know how they can get home. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  This a great round of Questions on Policy or Legislation. We have gone from GAA pitches to concert events. The Deputy raises a very important point. It is great to see the level of activity and the concerts going on right across the country and particularly the city and county of Dublin. Deputy Boland is right; the joy can be somewhat taken out of that if there are real challenges in terms of traffic, congestion and a lack of co-ordination. I know that is an issue that can affect her own constituency of Dublin Fingal West, particularly during the summer months. As she said, the NTA is the organisation with statutory responsibility for pulling all of this together. There is significant collaboration between the NTA and all public transport operators, but I think she is right. There is an issue that needs to be resolved. On foot of the Deputy raising it, I will engage directly with the Minister for Transport and others, and we will come back to her to see what more can be done. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Johnny Mythen  The primary care service operators in County Wexford are creaking at the knees. Occupational therapists, OTs, in the community health organisation, CHO, 5 south-east area are burned out and under enormous pressure due to the current workload from a long list of clients waiting for appointments and treatment. The integrated health area, IHA, in County Wexford has a total of 1,643 children on waiting lists, almost double that of any other area. There are 132 children aged five or under waiting over 12 months, while 434 five- to 17-year-olds have been on the list for over two years. Nineteen five-year-olds, along with 305 17-year-olds, have been waiting for over three years. The list goes on. There are 252 children, to be exact, waiting on primary care occupational therapy services for between four and five years in total. Will the T\u00e1naiste investigate these unacceptable delays and seek an explanation as to why this is happening? These are children who require an immediate intervention. The longer the delay, the more they will regress. The sooner the treatment starts, the sooner they will progress. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Mythen for raising this issue in relation to primary care services in County Wexford and the impact it is having on children waiting longer periods on waiting lists. I will certainly raise this issue with the Minister for Health and ask that she discuss it specifically with that CHO and the HSE to see what more can be done to make progress. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, to come back to the Deputy directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Carol Nolan  There are serious and ongoing concerns regarding the lack of access to occupational therapy for elderly people. I am dealing with a situation where an elderly man of 90 years who worked all his life and paid his taxes cannot get access to an occupational therapy appointment despite at least eight separate medical referrals. I have followed up myself and sent an email to the HSE and the local primary care centre and also the Minister because it is simply wrong, and this man is not the only elderly person I am dealing with who cannot get access to occupational therapy, which is a very basic service. He urgently needs an assessment and it is causing him great distress and frustration that he cannot get this basic assessment despite, as I said, having worked all his life. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Nolan for raising this issue in relation to access to occupational therapy for older people. I will speak to the Minister about that broader issue but also specifically the issue she has raised regarding that elderly gentleman who is seeking an assessment and has a number of medical referrals. If she wants to send me the information, I will ask the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, to engage with the HSE and come back to her. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  I welcome the continued success of IDA Ireland in attracting foreign direct investment at a time when global competition for investment has never been more intense. Today, companies are looking for countries that can provide certainty, speed, skilled people and investment-ready sites. Offaly is well positioned to compete in this. IDA Ireland has already demonstrated its confidence in the county by acquiring a strategic site for future industrial development. However, the land alone does not attract investment. Companies need sites that are fully serviced and ready for development. Will the T\u00e1naiste support prioritising the enabling of infrastructure needed to bring this site to market as quickly as possible? The race for investment does not begin when a company contacts IDA Ireland. It begins years earlier when the Government ensures that strategic sites are ready to compete. If we are serious about balanced regional development, counties like Offaly must be equipped to win the next generation of investment and the high-quality jobs that come with it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I think Deputy McCormack for raising this issue. I will discuss it with the Minister, Deputy Burke, and ask that he revert to the Deputy. More broadly, the IDA is continuing to deliver very successful results in a very challenging environment and is securing more sites that, as the Deputy said, are able to be accessed because they have the enabling infrastructure to try to keep ahead of the curve. The world is getting more and more competitive. It is more vital than ever to have that joined-up approach to securing sites but also to ensure they are functional and ready to rock. That is an absolute imperative. I will speak to the Minister and he will revert to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Daly  I wish to ask if the Government has or is developing a policy for the development of industrial hemp production in Ireland. Industrial hemp is a remarkable plant. It is a recognised crop grown largely in France, Belgium and Germany and is governed by an EU regulatory framework to keep the active tetrahydrocannabinol, THC, content lower than 0.3%, which is important because it is part of the cannabis family. I think it is prejudiced because of that.  We had farmers, processors, building industry representatives and construction academics at the agriculture committee last night. This remarkable crop has over 70 recognised uses, including hemp concrete, insulation, textiles and building blocks. It is grown quickly, with immediate carbon sequestration, and is sustainable and profitable for farmers, with an estimated profit of \u20ac250 per acre. It is a most suitable building material for Ireland with our damp climate. However, it requires a co-ordinated approach by Government to support it as an industry. Does the Government have a policy on industrial hemp production and will it encourage the Departments of Health, agriculture and enterprise to progress this, because at the moment it is licensed by the Department of Health and not by the Department of agriculture? In my constituency, a \u20ac20 million investment in a hemp production factory was turned down because we could not get the funding from the just transition programme. Part of the reason for that was the prejudice against this plant because of its association with cannabis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I do not honestly know the answer to the question of whether we have one. I have not seen it if we do, so I presume we have not. On foot of the Deputy raising this, I will ask the relevant Ministers to take a look at it because I am conscious he is a doctor as well as a Deputy and there is a very clear differentiation between what he is trying to achieve from an economic point of view and the broader discussion in relation to cannabis and the likes. That idea of the industrial use of hemp and the good that could come of it is certainly something that should be explored. I will perhaps ask the Minister, Deputy Burke, in the first instance to come back to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  There is a commitment in the programme for Government to enhance driver training but this has not been of much comfort to learner drivers who cannot get an appointment for a test. Numbers on the waiting lists for driving tests continue to climb and waiting times grow longer. Several weeks ago, the Road Safety Authority, RSA, pulled the plug on a proposed new driving centre in Sandyford, despite the Minister saying it was mere weeks away from opening. This would have relieved the enormous backlog affecting in Tallaght and D\u00fan Laoghaire tests centres, which are permanently at the top when it comes to the waiting lists.  There are 17,000 on the waiting list for the centre in Tallaght. That represents 10% of the State's total number in a network of 60 test centres. I have raised this on a number of occasions, including with different Governments. Could the T\u00e1naiste give the people who rely on the Tallaght and D\u00fan Laoghaire test centres assurances that a new test centre will be opened in south Dublin in 2026? This is something that needs to be tackled. At this stage I have raised it with a number of Governments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Crowe. I can hear his frustration. From memory, I think the waiting time for driving tests is falling, albeit from a very high place. I take the point that there can be geographic differences in relation to that too. I am not sure of the situation in relation to the Sandyford test centre but on foot of the Deputy raising it, I will speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, who has responsibility for the RSA and road safety to see what can be done. More broadly, we are having a conversation about the role of the RSA. I will come back to the Deputy directly and see what can be done for the people in Tallaght and D\u00fan Laoghaire on those wait times. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I am trying my absolute best to find out what has happened to the 119 bus service from Glendalough, through Roundwood to Bray. It was meant to start last September, as the T\u00e1naiste is aware. One month ago his office told constituents that the service was financed, sanctioned and overdue and that it would come into operation very soon and that there should be a firm date in the next week. That was a month ago. As recently as yesterday I had confirmation from the National Transport Authority, NTA, that there is no money for that service and that is why it has not begun. The Minister for Transport told me a couple of weeks ago that he hoped it would start early in 2027. It was meant to start last September. Similar bus routes in Ennis and Mullingar did start when they were meant to start. I am not sure why the 119 has not started. Is there funding for this service? If there is not, could the T\u00e1naiste ensure that funding is provided? I think it would cost approximately \u20ac80,000 to get that really vital service up and running from this coming September until when the longer term funding comes into place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I genuinely thank Deputy Whitmore for her work on this. I know her work to get this bus service up and running is sincere. I very much support it. This is where State agencies have to stop with the codology. Deputy Whitmore and I did not make up that this bus was coming to Wicklow. This information flowed from the NTA. She is right that certain bus routes have started and certain other ones have not. I watched back some of the NTA's contribution in response to the Deputy. Deputy Whitmore and I, as a Wicklow TD, were given assurances that this bus service was to be delivered within the timeline. I expect State agencies to keep to the commitments they give and not to go into Oireachtas committees with measly words and try to suggest that somehow the idea just dropped from the sky. It came from the NTA. I am very happy to meet the NTA with Deputy Whitmore in relation to this and to try to get this bus service up and running as quickly as possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  If we wait around long enough in here, two opportunities can come in a day - much like the 33 bus, which I am going to again raise in regard to its reliability. I acknowledge that the Minister's priority is to make the route more reliable rather than increasing the service this year. I also recognise that recruitment challenges and traffic congestion have contributed to cancellations across the 33 fleet. However, these are not new problems, and this is not the first time I have raised these concerns. I continue to receive emails from frustrated constituents about buses that are simply not turning up on a daily basis.  We need to improve the integration of our public transport network across the north county. The 33 bus timetable should be aligned with train services, and the location of Rush and Lusk train station, which is not in Rush or Lusk remains a significant barrier to people accessing public transport on the northern commuter line.  A dedicated Local Link service connecting surrounding communities in Rush and Lusk to the station would greatly improve access and encourage greater use of public transport. I am hoping these issues can be resolved so that my constituents in Dublin Fingal West can have a public transport system they can rely on. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Deputy O'Donoghue is having a busy day. I thank him for raising the issue of the 33 bus again. I take the point that there is always a balance between the reliability of the service and increasing the frequency of it. I know the Minister's aim in the first instance is to improve reliability.  The Deputy has put forward some suggestions as to measures that could be taken that would pass the common-sense test in terms of helping get people to and from train stations and the likes. I am very much aware that he represents a constituency with a growing and young population where investment in public transport is crucial. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, to come back to the Deputy in the first instance. I hope we can focus on public transport and bus provision in the forthcoming budget because it has been a challenging year for Local Link and the likes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  The T\u00e1naiste will be well aware that last night SNAs overwhelmingly voted to reject the proposed SNA workforce development plan. I understand F\u00f3rsa's education divisional executive committee will meet next Wednesday, 8 July. I accept what the Minister, Deputy Naughton, said about there being significant stakeholder engagement on the creation of this workforce development plan but the reality is that SNAs do not accept it. One of the core issues is the 72-hour obligation on SNAs. I suspect that this issue forms part of the reason for the rejection of the plan. My question is fairly simple. What now? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Kenny. First, I respect the outcome of the ballot because it is important that processes are respected. I know F\u00f3rsa opened a consultation ballot. It is important to say that the union representing SNAs did recommend acceptance of the plan but the members rejected it. That is a statement of fact too and that is how democracy works. In terms of what happens next and what now, F\u00f3rsa has said it will consider the outcome carefully. I understand, as the Deputy outlined, that its education divisional executive committee will meet next Wednesday to consider the outcome and determine the next steps. We, as a Government, and the Department await the feedback from F\u00f3rsa's engagement with its members. We are respectful of that. The Minister, Deputy Naughton, and the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Moynihan, and their officials are ready and willing to constructively work and engage with F\u00f3rsa and all stakeholders to address any concerns or issues. We all want to get agreement on this. In fairness, I know the SNAs want to get agreement on it. They have waited a long time for it. This was seen as an important step forward. We need to hear what was behind the outcome of the ballot to see if we can tease through some of the issues. We look forward to hearing from F\u00f3rsa after the meeting next Wednesday. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  What plans does the Government have to reform Uisce \u00c9ireann, which is totally out of control, given its continued failure to deliver on its core responsibility of providing a safe, secure and reliable water supply. Last week alone 28,000 homes and businesses across south Tipperary, from Carrick-on-Suir right up to Tipperary town, were affected by boil water notices. That is simply unacceptable in 2026. These notices, along with repeated unplanned outages, are not just an inconvenience, they force businesses to close, disrupt farming operations and place huge pressures on families and small businesses and undermine confidence in Irish Water-Uisce \u00c9ireann. People are asking how these failures can continue while Uisce \u00c9ireann executives continue to receive generous top-ups and bonuses. Where is the accountability? I think it was Einstein who said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again. Not a week goes by without Deputies from all over the country raising this issue here. We, as public representatives, have literally no access to Irish Water. It is a complete farce. Tipperary town is on a boil water notice since February and it is likely to continue until October. Absolutely no information is coming to public representatives or to the public. How long can this madness continue? Uisce \u00c9ireann has been a failure since it was set up by the then Minister, Phil Hogan, who was in the T\u00e1naiste's Government. It must be stood down or massively reformed because it is just not fair. A soft drinks company in Clonmel has a bill of \u20ac40,000 for buying clean water and it has got no satisfaction from Irish Water. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  The Deputy should conclude. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  That is not acceptable. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy McGrath. As is often the case I agree with some of what he says and disagree with some of it also. The establishment of Uisce \u00c9ireann, to have one national body for co-ordinating and directing a very significant level of investment in water quality, water services and the water supply we need for housing, is a good thing. I genuinely believe that and I stand over that decision.  However, the Deputy raised two other issues. One is the boil water notices in his constituency and the very significant impact they have had on his constituents. I will raise that with Irish Water and ask that it comes back to him directly. The second issue is the accountability of Irish Water. I am only one Member of this House - it is for the House to consider this - but it is my very clear view that Uisce \u00c9ireann should be accountable to D\u00e1il Eireann through parliamentary questions. I do not understand why it is not. It was intended to be set up in a different way. Deputy McGrath will remember those battles. He referenced my former colleague, the then Minister, Phil Hogan, but it has not been established in that way. Therefore, I think it should be covered. I do not think it is acceptable. I do not blame the Ceann Comhairle or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle - far from it - but at the moment if a Deputy asks a question about Uisce \u00c9ireann, it is ruled out of order. If we ask a question about the HSE, the Minister answers it and refers it to the HSE. We need to do work in whatever the appropriate committee is - the Committee on Members' Interests or the Oireachtas Commission - on how we are going to bring accountability. This is an organisation with vast sums of public money. Deputy McGrath's frustration is shared by Deputies across the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  It is not the Leas-Cheann Comhairle or the Ceann Comhairle; it is the legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Absolutely. We should work it out together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I just want to make it clear. I agree with the T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I defended the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's honour but we need to seriously look at this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Murphy  While I welcome the supports available to older people, there is a growing concern that the social welfare system does not address the additional costs associated with advancing age.  What I am asking the T\u00e1naiste to examine, in the context of budget 2027, is additional supports for older people, particularly those over the age of 80 and 90. I am particularly thinking about the fuel allowance. We have 189,000 people over the age of 80 and 29,000 over the age of 90 but not all have an automatic entitlement to the fuel allowance. It is those cohorts of people who are particularly vulnerable to fuel poverty. As I said, only 29,000 people are over the age of 90. Most of them are already in receipt of the fuel allowance but there is a small cohort who are not because they are above the financial threshold. It would be a great step by the Government to consider an automatic entitlement for those people over the age of 90, perhaps first, and then extending it to those over the age of 80. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  As is often the way, there is a lot of logic in what the Deputy is suggesting. We have to consider these matters as part of the budgetary process. I am proud that we are in a Government that has significantly expanded the fuel allowance and made sure that more homes and more people than ever before are receiving it. We have increased the amount of the fuel allowance and took the decision to extend the fuel allowance season this year when the energy prices went in a very bad direction globally and in Ireland. The Deputy is making the point that there is a certain cohort of people of an age who still do not qualify and he would like that examined. On foot of his raising this, I will ask the Minister, Deputy Calleary, to give it consideration and come back to the Deputy directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter Roche","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-Roche.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-Roche.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peter Roche  I want to put the spotlight on the primary medical certificate and the very rigid rules there are with regard to eligibility. It is fine if a person has a very physical disability; they will qualify. Those who lose eyesight, for example, would not be eligible. The appeals process is also quite complex. Is there any prospect of a review of the scheme? On the backlog of appeals, is there anything to speed up the numbers who are waiting on decisions? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Roche for raising this issue. I will reflect on what he says in respect of the actual process itself. Specifically on the issue of the length of time for appeals, I acknowledge the appeals board is independent but the board does run regional clinics on occasion where appropriate facilities can be sourced and where there is sufficient demand and attendance. For instance, over the past 12 months, it held these regional clinics in Cork and Galway and I think that helped somewhat with those delays. I am advised that the location of alternative regional clinics is kept under review by the board. This is very welcome. On foot of the Deputy raising the matter today, I will ask that his views are conveyed to the board as well. Those regional hearing centres could make a real difference in speeding up those times and I know it is something the board is open to as well. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_33","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/78","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/78\/dail\/1","houseCode":"dail","stage":"1","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Prevention of Energy Wastage Bill 2026: First Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Prevention of Energy Wastage Bill 2026: First Stage","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_33","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I move:  That leave be granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to amend the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Act 2021 to provide for the utilisation of curtailed and constrained renewable electricity in order to support the achievement of the national climate objective and carbon budgets, to advance a just transition, and to reduce energy poverty by facilitating access to lowercost renewable electricity for eligible electricity customers; and to provide for related matters.  This Bill has a very simple objective. It is to stop the wastage of renewable energy and help people reduce their electricity bills. One in seven households is in arrears on their electricity bills and, as of yesterday, electricity has gone up again, with Electric Ireland, the State\u2019s largest energy provider, putting its prices up by 8%. For the average household, this will add \u20ac138 to their electricity bill. Electric Ireland has about 1.1 million customers across the State, so a huge number of people are going to be impacted by this price hike. At this point, it is well known that Ireland has the highest electricity prices in Europe, with us paying 40% more than the EU average. This usually costs around \u20ac480 per year for an average household. People across the country are really struggling to make ends meet and, considering these figures, it is not hard to see why.  Yet, at the very same time, huge amounts of renewable energy are just being wasted. There are wind turbines all over this country that are being switched off because our electricity grid cannot manage the energy that they would be producing. In some cases, this is due to limitations on the grid while in others it is because the wider electricity system cannot absorb the energy safely. No matter the reason, renewable energy that could be used is being thrown away. This costs us approximately \u20ac500 million per year and, amazingly, some of that actually ends up being paid through individual electricity bills. While people in Ireland are in arrears on their bills, struggling to make ends meet, and faced with the highest electricity prices in Europe, they are also paying to switch wind farms off. There is something really wrong with a system where renewable energy is being wasted while people struggle to heat their homes, and I think that is something we could all probably agree on.  Now, there are ways of dealing with this. We could have every immersion in the country programmed to switch on at night and use that energy. We could do it the way Germany does it, by using electric vehicles as quasi batteries to store the energy. We could indeed just put large-scale batteries on every wind farm to store that energy rather than wasting it. The technology is there but the Government, for some reason, is stubbornly refusing to actually consider it.  The Prevention of Energy Wastage Bill 2026 seeks to address this issue and prevent that electricity wastage from happening. This Bill amends the climate Act to provide a statutory basis for the utilisation of renewable electricity that would otherwise be wasted due to electricity system curtailment or constraint. In short, this Bill would force the Minister to do something with that energy, such as to provide it to households at low cost or to people at risk of energy poverty for free. The Bill itself prioritises vulnerable households, those at risk of energy poverty, and community benefit projects. This is not a new idea, nor is it the first Bill to come to the D\u00e1il on the issue of renewable energy wastage. Two Fianna F\u00e1il TDs brought one forward about two years ago, the Energy Poverty Reduction (Use of Surplus Renewable Energy) Bill 2025. This issue is clearly recognised across parties and there are even provisions for it in the programme for Government. I really hope this Bill will receive cross party support but not just support. I want to see this Bill actioned. I want to see people's electricity prices come down and I want to see us using the renewable electricity we can produce for the benefit of people in this country.  EnergyCloud has examined this issue in detail, of the scale of surplus electricity on the grid. It has proposed mechanisms through which the wasted energy could be redirected, and its work has formed the basis of much of this Bill. I would like to thank EnergyCloud for its advocacy on this really important issue and for its support in the development of this Bill.  This Bill is really an opportunity for us all as legislators and as representatives of our communities to support households, to tackle energy poverty, to reduce waste and to make better use of the renewable resources that are available to us. I really hope that will be recognised across the Oireachtas and that this Bill will be supported. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Is the Bill opposed? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Deputy Frankie Feighan)  No. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Since this is a Private Members' Bill, Second Stage must, under Standing Orders, be taken in Private Members' time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I move: \"That the Bill be taken in Private Members' time.\" "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 1.28 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 2.08 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Sitting suspended at 1.28 p.m. and resumed at 2.08 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Prevention of Energy Wastage Bill 2026: First Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_34","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/75","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/75\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage","counts":{"speechCount":18,"speakerCount":17},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_34","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy John Cummins)  I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\"  I am pleased to bring the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2026 before the House. The main purpose of this Bill is to support the smooth commencement of the remaining provisions of the Planning and Development Act 2024 later this year and to provide clarity and further policy direction on a number of matters that have already commenced in Part 3 of the 2024 Act, including: the timely introduction of ten year county and city development plans; speeding up the implementation of the new procedural rules for planning judicial reviews that were introduced in the 2024 Act by applying them to any remaining Acts or decisions to be made under the 2000 Act; and completing a number of actions that were assigned to my Department following the Government's approval of the 2025 accelerating infrastructure plan to enhance the timely delivery of critical infrastructure projects.  Members will recall the scale of the Planning and Development Act 2024, which was enacted in October of that year. This body of legislation is the third largest to be enacted in the history of the State and was underpinned by a 15-month review led by the Attorney General, informed by dozens of key stakeholder voices in the planning arena, while also subject to considerable scrutiny when it passed through the Houses of the Oireachtas.  Given the scale of the 2024 Act, it has been necessary to commence and implement it on a phased basis in order to facilitate the transition from the arrangements under the current legislative framework to those under the Act. The ongoing implementation of the Act is a key priority for me, as Minister of State, and for the Government. A considerable volume of the legislation has already commenced, with the remainder on track to be commenced by the end of this year following the enactment of the Bill before the House. I assure Deputies that my Department is finalising revised regulations to accompany the 2024 Act and is working closely with local authorities and a range of other key stakeholders to ensure that the system will be ready for full implementation.  As already stated, the main purpose of the Bill is to support the smooth commencement of the remaining provisions of the Planning and Development Act 2024, which is due to take place later this year.  The amendments in the Bill can be broken down into five key areas. First, the Bill amends Part 3 of the Planning and Development Act 2024 to speed up the move to plan-making under the 2024 Act and to ensure that the transitional measures already provided for will operate as originally intended in line with the hierarchy of plan-making. Part 3 of the 2024 Act was commenced at the end of last year and is already being operated by planning authorities. We recognise that the ongoing practical implementation of the transition to the 2024 Act presents a challenge for the current system from a capacity and prioritisation perspective.  The amendments in this Bill take into account the ongoing engagement with the sector on how the legislation is operating in practice and will provide clarity and further policy direction on a number of important matters, including the Government's expectations around the timely introduction of ten-year county and city development plans under the 2024 Act. The approach has been discussed in detail and worked through with all key stakeholders including the Office of the Planning Regulator and our planning authorities. This engagement has happened at all levels across all organisations, including the oversight group chaired by my Department that was established to oversee and help manage the sector through the ongoing commencement of the 2024 Act. This Bill will ensure that the review of the three regional spatial and economic strategies will be completed in a timely manner through the introduction of a deadline of 31 December 2027. It will also allow for planning authorities to amend the expiration dates of their current development plans for a defined maximum period between February and December 2030. This new expiration date will act as a trigger for the adoption of new ten-year development plans under the 2024 Act and will mean that planning authorities must begin the process of making their new development plans under the 2024 Act in the period beginning in July next year and running until July of 2028 at the latest. It will also make it clear that since the commencement of Part 3 of the Act at end of 2025, all development plan reviews must be carried out under the 2024 Act only.  Second, the Bill extends the judicial review provisions in Chapter 1 of Part 9 of the 2024 Act to acts done or decisions made under the Planning and Development Act 2000. We are all aware that a number of planning proposals are delayed due to judicial review proceedings, which is why changes to judicial review processes were introduced under the 2024 Act and brought into operation in August 2025. Given the lead-in time before there could be a formal decision made or action taken under the 2024 Act that could be subject to a challenge, it would likely be several months after the commencement of Part 4 of the 2024 Act before the new planning judicial review rules could have an impact on proceedings. To further expedite judicial review processes going forward, it is now proposed to extend the judicial review provisions in the 2024 Act to decisions made or acts done under the 2000 Act. This change will speed up the transition to the new rules and will mean that they will have an earlier impact in the second half of this year. The processes being updated include the removal of the requirement to apply for leave to apply for judicial review proceedings which reduces the time required for such proceedings, removes unnecessary additional legal costs to all parties and amends various procedural rules relating to proceedings. These changes will mean that the expected benefits of the new judicial review processes will have an earlier positive impact on the planning system later this year.  A range of measures are proposed in the Bill to enhance the delivery of critical infrastructure projects and complete several actions that were assigned to my Department in the Accelerating Infrastructure Report and Action Plan, which was published last year. A number of actions were already in train, but the relevant timelines have been brought forward and included in this Bill to ensure completion within the ambitious timelines set out in the report, which was approved by Government and published in December of last year. This includes the introduction of a definition of \u201cmaterial contravention\u201d of the development plan which should assist in the timely development of critical infrastructure and housing projects by providing clarity and certainty for the decision-making process and thereby avoiding the potential for additional legal challenges. It also includes a number of other amendments to streamline certain application processes for critical infrastructure projects, including those by or on behalf of statutory undertakers. This includes the change set out in section 35 of the Bill which make it clear that landowner consent is not required when making a planning application for development undertaken by statutory undertakers in the performance of their statutory functions, such as ESB Networks when they are seeking to develop critical electricity infrastructure, including across multiple properties. This amendment makes it clear that the application may be made by or on behalf of the statutory undertaker in the first instance, but does not alter the requirements or predetermine the outcome of the planning process itself. All relevant parties, including landowners, will still retain their existing rights to participate in the planning process.  Another example is section 53, which makes an amendment to help speed up the delivery of critical electricity infrastructure. It provides additional flexibility so that an application for the distribution of electricity infrastructure may be made under Chapter 3 of the 2024 Act, thereby having the development treated as standard development and considered first by the planning authority, rather than under Chapter 4 of the 2024 Act, where it is considered only by An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, as may otherwise be applicable.  The Bill will also make amendments to allow for the modification of an existing permission in accordance with appropriate apartment design standards. The agile application of these criteria to permissions already granted including, where relevant, the development of a greater numbers of dwellings in apartment complexes, will help support the viability of the development of such apartments in the immediate term. The amendment being introduced sets out specific circumstances where such a modification of an existing permission is non-material for the purpose of the 2024 Act, noting that any such modification is still subject to the requirements of the environmental impact assessment directive and the habitats directive, where applicable. The Bill sets out the specific criteria for the applicability of such a process. Those criteria will only apply where work has not yet commenced and if the modification is made within two years of the enactment of this Bill.  Following a comprehensive internal review of the legislation that took place in early 2026, and engagement with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Government, OPC, on the drafting of corresponding provisions, a number of amendments are proposed to clarify the competent authorities and related screening obligations for both appropriate assessment and environmental impact assessment. The amendments have been drafted on a no-policy-change basis and will support the smooth commencement of the remaining provisions of the 2024 Act later by ensuring that the provisions operate as was originally intended when they were enacted.  The Bill includes a large number of amendments that make up over 50% of its sections. These amendments are technical in nature and are proposed to correct cross-references and typographical errors and to clarify the existing text without changing the intent behind it. The Bill also includes amendments that provide for the formal repeal of the vacant sites levy provisions in the Urban Regeneration and Housing Act 2015, which have been superseded by the residential zoned land tax.  Amendments to the Housing Finance Agency Act 1981 are also proposed in order to increase the statutory borrowing limit of the Housing Finance Agency from \u20ac13.5 billion to \u20ac15 billion. The Housing Finance Agency provides low-cost finance to approved housing bodies, local authorities and higher education institutions for social, affordable and student housing. This amendment will enable the Housing Finance Agency to continue to fund social and affordable homes up to June 2027 and ensure there is no interruption in their housing pipeline.  I will now outline the main provisions of the Bill, which consists of 149 sections set out in 4 Parts. Part 1 comprises sections 1 to 3, inclusive, and contains provisions of a general nature, including definitions, citation, commencement and repeals. Part 2 comprises sections 4 to 139, inclusive, and amends the Planning and Development Act 2024, referred to as the Principal Act. Part 2 is split into 18 Chapters, with each Chapter providing amendments to specific Parts of the 2024 Act.  Chapters 1 and 2, which comprise sections 4 to 8, inclusive, amend Parts 1 and 2 of the Act of 2024 primarily to correct typographical errors and cross references. Section 4 includes a transitional clarification in the definition of \u201cexempted development\u201d to ensure that planning exemptions under the Act of 2000 can continue in force under the Act of 2024, as provided for in section 627 of the 2024 Act, until such time as they are repealed and replaced by regulations made under the 2024 Act.  Chapter 3, which comprises sections 9 to 31, inclusive, amends Part 3 of the Act of 2024. Alongside typographical corrections and minor amendments, Chapter 3 provides for: the designation, in sections 9, 13 and 20, of towns with populations of 10,000 or more as key towns; a 90-week deadline for the completion of a regional spatial and economic strategies review in section 14, which means it should be completed by 31 December; the amendment of the expiry date of the current county and city development plans in section 27; and a trigger for the review of development plans in section 19. The revised expiry dates are grouped in batches, separated by two-month intervals, and depend on the expiry of the current development plans. These amendments will operate in such a way that the planning authorities will be obliged to begin the process of making their new development plans under the 2024 Act in the period from July 2027 to July 2028 at the latest, and conclude the processes in the period between February and December 2030 at the latest. In line with the hierarchy of plan-making, these amendments should provide for the timely introduction of ten-year development plans.  Chapters 4 and 5 comprise sections 32 to 78, inclusive, and amend Parts 4 and 5 of the Act of 2024. Alongside typographical corrections and minor amendments, they provide for: a definition of \u201cmaterial contravention\u201d in relation to development plans in section 32; eligibility requirements for the making of planning applications on behalf of statutory undertakers in section 35; flexibility for applications for the distribution of electricity to be made under Chapter 3 of Part 4 and to be treated as standard development in section 53; the removal of the requirement to have a maritime area consent prior to entering into the pre-application consultation process in section 54; and the alteration of an existing permission for apartment developments that is in accordance with appropriate apartment design standards in section 62.  Chapters 6 and 7 comprise sections 79 to 114, inclusive, and amend Parts 6 and 7 of the Act of 2024. Alongside typographical corrections and minor amendments, these sections clarify the competent authorities and screening obligations for both appropriate assessment and environmental impact assessment in respect of: retention permission; retrospective consent; local authority development; State authority development; planning schemes; and development schemes.  Chapter 8 comprises section 115 and amends Part 9 of the Act of 2024. It inserts a new section 303A in Chapter 3 of Part 9 to apply the new procedural rules for judicial review set out in Chapter 1 of Part 9 to decisions made or acts done under the Act of 2000. This applies to a range of specified procedures, where those procedures are initiated after section 303A comes into operation.  Chapters 9 to 18 comprise sections 116 to 139, inclusive, and amend various Parts of the Act of 2024. These mainly consist of typographical corrections and minor amendments. Section 129 amends section 588 of the Act of 2024, which requires a declaration to be signed with planning submissions and appeals. The amendments in this Bill will provide for exclusions from the application of section 588 for specified bodies that are entitled to be given notice of certain planning applications and are invited to make observations due to their specific functions.  Part 3 comprises sections 104 to 148, inclusive, and amends the Planning and Development Act 2000 and other enactments. The amendments to the Act of 2000 are consequential to the Part 9 judicial review amendments. The amendments to the other enactments correct typographical errors in references to the Act of 2024 in those other enactments.  Part 4 of the Bill comprises section 149 and amends the Housing Finance Agency Act 1981, providing for an increase to the statutory borrowing limit of the Housing Finance Agency, from \u20ac13.5 billion to \u20ac15 billion.  I emphasise that the measures included in the Bill as proposed deal with a number of important and time-sensitive matters that are relevant to the planning system. They will provide clarity and further policy direction on a number of matters that have already commenced in Part 3 of the 2024 Act, including the timely introduction of ten-year development plans under the Act, before the end of 2030. The Bill will also speed up the implementation of the new procedural rules for planning judicial reviews that were introduced in the 2024 Act by also applying them to any remaining acts or decisions made under the 2000 Act. The Bill contains a number of measures that will enhance the timely delivery of critical infrastructure projects, which I am sure all Members support. The substantial majority of the provisions in the Bill are technical and their timely enactment will enable the remaining provisions of the Planning and Development Act 2024 to be brought into operation later this year.  As the House is aware, the ongoing implementation of the 2024 Act is a key priority for Government and we want the remainder of the 2024 Act to be commenced as soon as possible. With the support of both Houses and with your co-operation, I hope to have this Bill enacted before the summer recess. These changes will provide legislative clarification for the planning sector, including planning authorities and An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, in order that they can finalise their preparation for implementation. The timely enactment of this Bill will make sure that the smooth commencement of the 2024 Act can take place in the autumn.  I will seek to respond to various matters that Deputies may raise. I look forward to further engagement next week during the Committee Stage debate on this important Bill. In the meantime, I commend the Bill to the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  I would like to start by thanking the officials from the planning section of the Department who facilitated a detailed briefing for members of the Oireachtas committee on Monday. I am deeply disappointed with what I consider to be the disrespectful way in which the Government has introduced and intends to proceed with this Bill.  The Minister of State said \"With the support of both Houses and with your co-operation, I hope to have this Bill enacted before the summer recess.\" We will have no say in that enactment. The Government has already decided that the Bill is going to be railroaded through the Houses in a matter of days. Given the complexity of the legislation in front of us, its impact on our planning system and, on foot of that, the impact that will be felt by hundreds of thousands of people, I have to say that what is proposed is wholly inadequate. The Government has allocated four and a half hours for the Second Stage debate. That is fine, but two hours for Committee and Remaining Stages next week to scrutinise a Bill that runs to 83 pages is wholly inadequate.  The Bill was published on Friday last. As the Minister of State outlined, it is very technical in nature. The amendment deadline for Committee Stage it was 11 o'clock this morning, before we even had the benefit of the Second Stage debate. Earlier, the Business Committee agreed to the tiny amount of time allocated for the debate next week. This means that those sections of the Bill that were subject to pre-legislative scrutiny will not be subject to any meaningful committee scrutiny next week. That, in itself, is problematic, but there are considerable sections of this Bill that are new, that were not included in the general scheme and that were not subject to pre-legislative scrutiny. They will be the subject of no scrutiny whatsoever.  We want to get the opportunity to bring in impacted parties, professionals and other experts to give us their views. The problem with what is happening is that we have a long history in this House of Government rushing through technical and complex planning legislation at the tail end of D\u00e1il terms. Because we do not take the time to scrutinise such legislation, mistakes and errors are made.  Substitute consent is the best example of that. The legislation had to be revisited and reintroduced a year afterwards because of the mess that was made.  When I say \"mess\", I want to very clear. I am not in any way criticising officials in the planning section of the Department because they work hard and do their job very professionally, but when they are put under unrealistic timelines by the Government, when they and the Members of this House are not afforded the opportunity to scrutinise and hear other opinion, bad legislation is made, bad outcomes arise and legislation has to be revisited. I say this about a Bill many aspects of which I am not opposed to. Not only is it disrespectful to this House, but it is deeply disrespectful to the members of the Oireachtas housing committee, of which the Minister of State was previously a member, because we are not being afforded the opportunity to undertake the job to scrutinise legislation from the Government, a job that we take seriously.  There is also the irony that when the then Minister, Deputy O'Brien, announced in 2022 that he was going to do a once-in-a-generation reform of planning legislation, one of the primary reasons was because, in the 20 years following the passage of the planning Act in 2000, there had been so many amending pieces of legislation that the Act was unwieldy. It was too complex, cumbersome and difficult to navigate.  He then undertook process whereby he took a Bill of 700 pages that ended up at 1,000 pages long, with all of the amendments during 2024. If I am not wrong, this is now the second piece of amending legislation of that \"once-in-a-generation\" rewrite of our planning law, the purpose of which was to do away with the need for constant revisions and amendments. Are we going to get one of these amending Bills every year? We had one last year. It passed through the House and was much shorter than this one, which is more substantive. Sure, some of the sections of this Bill are corrections, but not all. There are lots of substantive elements in this Bill, which I am going to deal with now, and it is not lost on people, particularly the professional planners out there who have to make and adjudicate on applications, that the system is probably more complicated and cumbersome today as a result of the then Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, and his successor, Deputy James Browne's poor efforts.  I will run through some of the key general concerns I have with the Bill. The proposed amendments to Part 3 relate to plan-making, which was one of the areas of the 2024 Act that we were generally in agreement with. We wanted to move to more plan-making, including ten-year plans, to create a consistency between regional, county and local plans. The real issue here, however, is that unless there is a proper multi-annual workforce plan to give our planning authorities the staff that they told the Government back in 2023 they needed, all of these new provisions will fall foul of the inability of our local authorities, through no fault of their own, to have the dedicated staff to do the plan-making.  In my local authority area, we are dealing with the city edge project, which the Minister of State's officials know very well because they were before our local authority previously. We have just made some very ambitious decisions in terms of substantial extensions to Adamstown through material variations. There are new master plans on the cards for the coming years for Adamstown south and west, and Grange Castle.  How are we going to get our planning authorities to move into the space where they have sufficient time and capacity to develop these kinds of plan when the number of additional staff sanctioned so far has been substantially less than what the County and City Management Association, CCMA, told us in 2023 they needed? There is no multi-annual plan not just to employ, but to recruit the planners whom planning authorities need.  While I have no objection to the sections of the Bill that propose to amend Part 3 of the Act, in the absence of a parallel and clear multi-annual workforce plan to train, recruit, attract and employ the planners that we need, it is going to be very difficult to achieve these objectives.  With respect to the amendments to Part 9 on judicial reviews, and as I said when the Act was making its way through the House in 2023 and 2024 and during the pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of this Bill, I am concerned that there is a real risk that this could lead to increased litigation and project delay. I hope I am wrong, but the only way we are going to know is if there is regular reporting by the Department to the Oireachtas housing committee to demonstrate the outworking of this legislation. I invite the Minister of State to discuss with the Minister, James Browne, and the officials introducing some reporting mechanism, perhaps every six months, to the Oireachtas housing committee so that we can track the progress. This means that if the Bill does what the Government intends it to do, we could congratulate the Government and say \"Job well done\". I would have no difficulty doing that, rare and all as such a thing occurs. However, if it leads to increased litigation and delays, as some of us fear but none of us wants, we would be able to highlight that.  The amendments also ignore the fact that the biggest obstacle to the timely expediting of judicial reviews is that we only have three judges in the Planning and Environment Court. We need at least six. Given the resources available to the Government, it is not within the realms of impossibility that the number of judges could be doubled, they could be provided with some additional back room staff and support, and, crucially, the good practice guidelines of the court would be put on a statutory footing so that we would have statutory timelines for judicial reviews depending on size and complexity. We have statutory timelines for some elements of our planning process, although not as many as there should be. There should be for judicial reviews, too.  With respect to the amendments to Part 4 on the infrastructural task force, this is one of those areas where our committee could have played a useful role in inviting in external experts, such as the utilities, our planning authorities, the Irish Planning Institute and others, to give their views on these proposed changes to the Act. All of us want to see increased and accelerated delivery of critical underlying infrastructure, which these amendments broadly deal with, but also of public amenities and public services like transport, schools and health facilities, all of which are sorely lacking in those parts of the State where there is increased residential development.  One of the big disappointments of this Part is that it does not deal with the thorny issue of parallel consent. We raised this with the Department's officials during the course of our briefing. The utilities have been crying out for parallel consents to speed up the process for years. Whether they require foreshore licences or Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, licences as well as planning consents, there should be a single standardised format where those consents and grants can be applied for in parallel rather than consecutively, which is the case currently and adds considerable periods of time to the process.  In principle, I am not against the definitions of material contraventions here and elsewhere in the Bill, but our committee did not scrutinise them and there was no public airing to examine whether those definitions were correct or would cause difficulties. That is a missed opportunity. I am not against the idea in principle, but the Government is doing itself and the State a disservice as a consequence.  I am fundamentally opposed to the amendments to Part 4 dealing with alterations to existing apartment planning permissions. As the Minister of State knows, I was a strong critic of the revised design standards when they were issued as section 28 guidelines last year and as draft planning policy statements this year, in part because they had all the same pitfalls and challenges of the former Minister, Eoghan Murphy's previous section 28 guidelines. They are not good standards for the development of good urban environments or good and well-planned communities. That is not just my view. That is the view of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland and the Irish Planning Institute, as well as many professional architects and planners.  As we heard in the housing committee only a couple of weeks ago, the irony is that the alleged savings that were to be introduced as a consequence of those inferior design standards have already been taken over by inflation. Despite the fact that renters are going to get smaller and darker apartments with less storage and communal space, the savings that were meant to be provided are gone and because the Government has decided to remove any protections on rent controls between tenancies, those tenants will be paying ever greater rents. This is a retrograde step that will come back to bite the Government badly in the time ahead, but as is always the cases with these matters, it will be renters who bear the burden of that.  Notwithstanding all of those criticisms, and the Minister of State was not surprised by any of them, there is an obligation on the Government to periodically report back to our committee on the operation of these particular sections in terms of the number of alterations that are sought, the nature and detail of those alterations, whether they actually result in commencements of new homes, and the types, quality and price of those.  I suspect the Government will not do that because it is going to be nervous about proper public scrutiny of the negative outcome of that particular policy proposition that it introduced last year and is advancing further here. The argument is going to be that this measure will help to activate apartment developments that otherwise would not be built. Let us wait and see. I genuinely do not believe it will have that impact, and even where it does have that impact, marginal and all as it is, it will have very negative impacts on renters in terms of size, quality and, crucially, cost.  I would like the Minister of State, whether today or on Committee Stage next week, to talk in more detail about the provisions of the Bill that deal with the derelict sites levy and its interaction with the residential zoned land tax. That would benefit from some public airing.  With respect to the Housing Finance Agency, HFA, that was on the cards and is very welcome. Here is the problem. The additional funding from the Housing Finance Agency is only of benefit if approved housing bodies, AHBs, through the capital assistance scheme, CAS, the capital advance leasing facility, CALF, and the cost rental equity loan, CREL, can scale up the delivery of social and, crucially, affordable homes in the time ahead. I am strongly of the view that there is an increasing crisis of viability in the operation of the cost rental equity loan. It was badly designed at the outset and, increasingly, delivering projects is proving difficult under it. What we also know is that the projects it is delivering are far too expensive for the overwhelming majority of people for whom cost rental was originally designed, those just above the thresholds for social housing and unable to access market housing. On average, for example, 29% of the applicants for Land Development Agency, LDA, schemes are refused solely on the affordability grounds, and for the three-bed units, in many cases, it is as high as 50%. The figure is similar for the AHB sector. I urge the Minister of State, in the context of the increase in the lending ceiling for the Housing Finance Agency, to fix the problems with CREL.  CAS and CALF have a separate problem, which is the inadequacy of the payment and availability agreement, or the management agreement in the case of CAS. That is going to become an increasing constraint on the ability of the AHBs to develop additional schemes and draw down the HFA funding that the Government is making available today.  Of course, the crazy thing is that for cost rental, local authorities can borrow from the Housing Finance Agency at a lower rate of interest than AHBs, so much so that when the former chief executive of the HFA came in front of our committee, he indicated that the difference in borrowing could result in a lower rent of at least \u20ac100 a month. Yet, despite the fact that local authorities could deliver larger volumes of lower priced cost rental, the borrowing cap that has been placed by the Department of housing and, ultimately, the Government on the local government sector is hampering it beyond belief. For example, Dublin City Council is working on the cost rental project at St. Michael\u2019s, but that is going to blow its ability to borrow for any other schemes at any other stage. There has to be a sensible conversation. I am not talking about reckless borrowing or no limits, but there has to be a conversation in government and with the Oireachtas committee about changing that ceiling and giving greater flexibility to local authorities to borrow.  With the indulgence of the Chair, I will make two further comments. Yesterday, the Government published the draft planning policy statement for rural and Gaeltacht houses. Many of us had been waiting for that statement to be published for a long time. It is noted that, unlike the publication of the draft policy statement for design standards, the Government has not announced any formal public consultation or invitation for sectoral organisations to make submissions while it is doing the strategic and environmental assessments - the appropriate assessment - and before they are incorporated into the city and county development plans. Nor is there any indication of whether the Government is going to request the Oireachtas housing committee to give its scrutiny to these matters.  I urge the Minister of State to talk to the line Minister. Between the assessments and the reworking into the development plans, these rules are not going to come into effect until the end of this year, at the earliest. A shortened, time-bound, formal consultation with the sectors and our committee could help to strengthen them. There are some very real concerns about aspects of these. The Minister of State will know of these through his own backbenchers and because sectoral organisations are raising them. We want to get these planning guidelines right, and consultation is required.  Today, the Department issued the circular to local authorities on the new transfer protocol for victims and survivors of domestic and gender-based violence to be able to move from one local authority to another and take their years on the waiting lists with them. This is something we have been calling for over many years, and I warmly welcome it. However, there is a problem. It only applies to households on local authority housing waiting lists and does not apply to households in receipt of housing assistance payment, HAP, and the rental accommodation scheme, RAS. Almost half the potential households that will desperately need this vital protection are excluded from the protocol. I understand that there are some challenges because those people are on the transfer lists of their local authorities, but there are no grounds on which a woman and children who are today experiencing domestic or gender-based violence, and who are in HAP accommodation, should be precluded from availing of the protocol.  I see the Minister of State has a quizzical look on his face. I have checked this. It has been confirmed to me today that it does not apply to women trying to escape domestic and gender-based violence who are on HAP or RAS. The only reason I am raising it is to urge the Minister of State to act. This is a valuable move. It is one of those rare occasions where I want to be able to commend the Government, but if half of the potential households that need this are being excluded, the Government needs to go back and fix it very quickly.  There are times when we come in here and it does not matter how much scrutiny or how much debating time there is because we are not going to agree with the Government. There are also times when legislation is brought forward on which there is very little politics to be played and very few votes to be got. Planning legislation is typically that kind of legislation. I cannot emphasise enough, and I think I speak for all colleagues in the Opposition who take our scrutiny role in committee very seriously, that to allow two hours for Committee and Report Stages for a Bill of 83 pages is wholly unacceptable. In that time, we have to try to discuss the Bill and invite the Minister of State to explain, clarify and, in some cases, justify elements as well as consider reasonable amendments. It is frustrating that every year, at the end of a term, this is what we are left with. I urge the Government to reconsider, although I do not think it will. Then we will decide as we go through the Bill next week how we proceed on Final Stage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  I echo what Deputy \u00d3 Broin has outlined, which is the Opposition\u2019s extreme disappointment at the pace at which this Bill is being rushed through. It does not take seriously the role of Parliament. It is also extremely frustrating that the Government gives out and complains that the Opposition does not come forward with solutions when the key point - the only point, really - at which we have a real opportunity to engage with Government policy in a meaningful way is on legislation, amendments and discussion at committees. With this Bill, we have two hours for 86 pages. This shows me that the Government is afraid of something here. It is unwilling to engage in serious debate and discussion on what is in this Bill. If it were not concerned, it would give the Bill the time.  Is the Government rushing just to try to be seen to be doing something, given that it is not taking substantial time to look at this Bill? There are very significant changes in the Bill. In particular, the one that I am most concerned about is the change to apartment sizes. This has the most impact on my constituency. New apartments are being built in places like Santry and Whitehall, and will be built in places like Ballymun. It is all apartments that are being built in my constituency.  These are going to have profound changes for the livability of those apartments. It feels like the Government is simply ignoring the Opposition and is not taking our concerns seriously or giving us the time to scrutinise the Bill and discuss it with professional bodies.  I want to highlight what the Irish Planning Institute said about the changes being made to apartment guidelines. It stated very clearly that professional planners not only recognise the gravity of the housing crisis, they welcome meaningful evidence-based reforms but the institute is not convinced that the announced changes to apartment sizes and standards would achieve what is intended. It said the erosion of unit mix requirements presents a market-led approach to housing that is fundamentally at odds with the significant work undertaken by the Department of housing to create a plan-led system with high-quality long-term sustainable outcomes. That is the major concern.  What we are building will not provide sustainable communities and homes. A significant concern is that this is about cramming as many units as possible into a site for two reasons. The first is for viability, which is profitability, and the second is so the Government can say it is delivering whatever number of units but are they actually homes?  I also want to read into the record an article by Dr. Lorcan Sirr on the implications of the changes to apartment sizes for climate change. He referred to the real issue, namely that apartments with windows on more than one side, known as dual aspect, have a considerable advantage over those that do not as windows can be opened to cross-ventilate the dwelling. Single aspect apartments can get stiflingly hot and have limited capacity for ventilation. The point he made was that new apartment standards introduced by the Minister will now make apartments smaller and reduce the amount of dual aspect apartments required in any one development, the requirement for balconies and floor-to-ceiling heights, all in the interest of increasing financial viability for developers. The viability of being able to live in these apartments, in particular with more frequent hotter summers, has not been given as much ministerial attention.  I ask the Minister and his officials to give the committee some clear detail next week on how these apartments will be livable, in particular in the context of climate change, and what impact climate change is likely to have on these changes and the livability of the apartments. I am concerned that the apartment standard size changes the Minister is about to make are about reducing standards and the livability of apartments to achieve what the Government calls viability but which we should call profitability. The term \"viability\" is a politically safe word.  The Government will not state the truth, namely that this is about reducing housing standards so they are sufficiently profitable for developers and institutional investors who are already making hundreds of millions in profit. They are doing so because the State is dependent on the private sector to build. It is funnelling, and will funnel in the coming years, millions of euro in public money into private developers and investor funds and reduce the livability of homes at the same time in order to increase their profitability so that they will build more units which are not actually homes. This is about increasing units, not providing homes.  IRES REIT and the developers and investors have been very clear that they are delighted with the changes and being given open access to a public sector ATM slush fund, which is effectively what we are doing rather than expanding our public sector and councils and developing a State construction company that would build affordable homes. The reality is that more expensive built rent units will not solve our housing disaster or provide any more new homes for people to buy that are affordable. Just a tiny fraction of what is being built in Dublin, including in my constituency, will be available for sale. No apartments are available for sale. Nothing is being sold at a reasonable price. Of course, this adds to house price inflation because everyone is trying to buy existing built homes and there is no supply of homes to buy that could reduce house prices. The lack of affordable homes to buy being delivered in our cities, in particular Dublin, is the fundamental problem.  The Minister spoke about the justifications for these changes, which are outlined in the Bill. He said it is about addressing homelessness and providing residential supply. He spoke about what is changing. The reality is that the housing disaster is happening right now. What is the Government is doing about it? It will not put in place a ban on evictions, which it could do and would solve people being pushed into homelessness. Instead, it is making changes that institutional investors and developers want. It is deeply unfortunate that the Government is taking this approach.  I want to highlight a case that came to me. There is a human reality to all of this which I have raised in the House again and again and which the Government is completely ignoring. There is a human cost to the housing crisis. A constituent who was in touch with me highlighted that they have been in homelessness for year. Prior to that, they were in homelessness for three years and got a HAP property for a year but were made homeless when they were evicted. This family, with three children aged 16, 12 and four, have been homeless for four out of the past five years. The mother described how stressful it is for her older kids. She said they have been in this situation and have seen no normal life. She said no child should have to deal with this and they are stuck in extreme conditions, living in rooms together. She said they have no family to visit because her mum and dad passed away. They cannot get a break. She said it is distressing and embarrassing for the children.  This is something that frustrates me. The impact of homelessness on children is not being taken into account. It is extremely damaging for children, even if a child is homeless for a short period of time, such as a week or two weeks - we know it is often much longer. One could argue that this is not related to the Bill but it is directly related to it because it claims to address homelessness. The Bill will not address or solve homelessness. It will not provide homes that people can live in because the changes to apartment sizes and standards are about increasing profitability so developers and investor funds build more units that nobody can afford to buy or rent. As we have seen in reports from the Central Bank and others, institutional funds increase rents overall.  The Government's claim that this is about increasing supply and will eventually reduce rents is untrue. The Department repeats the same mantra, namely that increasing supply will reduce rents. There is no point in the near future when that will happen. Rents will simply increase, which is pushing more and more people into homelessness.  I support some aspects of the Bill, such as giving the Housing Agency increased borrowing capacity. It is important to increase that. Unfortunately, other aspects of the Bill make it very difficult to support it as a whole. I will continue to engage with it and I hope the Minister can address some of these issues in committee. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  The Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2026 provides another opportunity to address long-standing failures in how we plan and deliver our communities. While legislation can amend processes and procedures, it must also confront the reality experienced by families across the country, in particular in rapidly growing counties like Meath.  For too long, our planning system has treated community infrastructure as an afterthought. I am not convinced this legislation will improve things. Houses have been built in huge numbers but the parks, playgrounds, pitches and other community facilities that make places liveable have too often been delayed, downsized or simply never delivered. The people of Meath kept their side of the bargain. They bought homes, raised families and built communities, yet local and central government failed to ensure that the essential public amenities those communities depended upon were provided. That failure has left children without places to play, sports clubs struggling for facilities and growing communities without the green spaces they deserve.  The fundamental problem is that our planning system remains fragmented and reactive. The Bill before us does little to address that. Too much depends on informal arrangements between developers and local authorities, with little accountability when commitments are not honoured. Developers receive permission to build, houses are occupied and all too often the promised community infrastructure never materialises. That is not good planning. It is a system that places private interests ahead of the public good.  If the Bill is to make a meaningful difference, it must strengthen the planning framework to ensure community facilities are delivered alongside housing, not years later or, worse still, not at all. Mandatory sequencing should become the norm, with legally enforceable requirements linking residential development to the delivery of parks, playgrounds and sporting facilities. Earlier today, I welcomed a wonderful group of women from Teach Mn\u00e1 in Ashbourne to Leinster House. They highlighted other infrastructure deficits, including in transport. They are absolutely right.  Development levies must be protected and ring-fenced for the infrastructure they were intended to fund. Local authorities need both the certainty of funding and the statutory powers to deliver projects without unnecessary delay. Sinn F\u00e9in has consistently argued that community infrastructure, including green spaces, should be recognised as a core element of every development plan, not an optional extra. Through our Delivering Liveable Urban Spaces policy and our proposed ciste beithe, we have outlined practical measures to accelerate investment in pitches, playgrounds, public parks and open spaces while ensuring communities have a genuine voice throughout the planning process.  The same applies to transport, education and other community, public and critical infrastructure. I welcome the recent GAA report No One Shouted Stop - Until Now, which highlights the enormous pressure demographic growth is placing on sporting facilities. Its call for a strengthened planning framework and an all-island strategy for sports infrastructure deserves serious consideration. We should also maximise the use of existing facilities by supporting greater community access to school sports grounds.  Planning legislation should not simply facilitate development. It should create sustainable, liveable communities where families have access to the facilities they need from day one. That is the standard the Bill should meet. It is the standard that communities in Meath and across Ireland have every right to expect. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire St\u00e1it as a bheith anseo inniu. I thank him and his officials for the detailed briefing we received on the Bill. It is a long and technical Bill. One aspect of it is that it seeks to raise the borrowing limit of the Housing Finance Agency, which is fine. However, the other aspects are quite technical and detailed. Deputy \u00d3 Broin alluded to a recurring theme across Departments, not just the Department of housing, whereby the deadline for Committee Stage amendments to Bills is given before the Second Stage debate. I do not appreciate that and it does not set a good precedent. In many cases, Second Stage allows us to tease out queries, issues or concerns and have the Government respond to them. It allows us time to consider what amendments we might table.  This Bill, which has 149 sections, is being rushed through the D\u00e1il two weeks before the recess. I have been a TD for only a year and a half and this is the second time I have debated one of these amending planning and development Bills. I was not a Member of the previous D\u00e1il but I was told that the huge 2024 planning Bill, which had 900-odd pages, was a panacea and that we would not need to revisit these issues. The Planning and Development Act 2000 was fundamentally good legislation. The issue was all the amendments that followed, which turned it into a unwieldy dog's dinner of an Act.  I have a number of concerns about the Bill before us today, mainly relating to section 115, which inserts a new section 303A into the principal Act. These provisions deal with the judicial review changes. The Government would have us believe the planning system and judicial reviews are the biggest obstacles to housing delivery. That is not true. In fact, the biggest obstacles remain a lack of serviced land, inadequate infrastructure, soaring construction costs, labour shortages and the chopping and changing of Government policy. I support efficient planning. Nobody benefits from unnecessary delay. However, achieving greater speed cannot become an excuse for weakening transparency, accountability or access to justice.  The proposed judicial review changes are troublesome. Judicial review exists for a reason. It is not there to frustrate development. It is there primarily to ensure public bodies follow the law. If the Government really wants to reduce delays, it must properly resource the courts and ensure planning authorities have adequate staffing - I will say more about that presently - to improve the quality of decision-making in the first place. Codifying the restrictions placed on public participation and potentially breaching our international legal obligations under the Aarhus Convention is not a road I want us to go down. The convention provides that environmental judicial reviews must not be prohibitively expensive or overtly restrictive. I have concerns that the stricter limits being placed on judicial review could breach that requirement. There is also a risk that removing the automatic right of appeal to the Court of Appeal, leaving only redress to the Supreme Court, could be unconstitutional. My concern is that instead of speeding up infrastructure delivery, which is the intention, we could end up with a wave of satellite litigation and spend years in court arguing over procedural technicalities.  There are other aspects of this that are concerning. The whole idea of forcing courts, in effect, to police the corporate governance rules for volunteer-led community groups is a bit strange. The notion of shifting the responsibility of micromanaging community group governance to the courts system, thereby consuming valuable judicial time, does not make sense. The Government would have us believe planning is the principal obstacle to housing delivery, but it is not. Blaming judicial review for housing backlogs is a distraction. Data from the Law Society shows that the number of judicial reviews brought by individual citizens was already falling while the number of cases taken by commercial developers was increasing.  I have concerns about the new section 138A, to be inserted in the principal Act by section 62, which deals with the relaxation of apartment standards. I fundamentally believe it is a race to the bottom to allow developers to shrink floor sizes, lower ceilings and reduce natural light. In effect, this is calling for smaller and darker apartments. I am concerned as well that these new lower standard apartments will disproportionately affect social housing tenants and renters, who are transient dwellers, by locking them into long-term inferior living conditions while developers maximise their profits.  I also have a concern about the erosion of democratic oversight.  By classifying these structural reductions as non-material modifications that only require a local authority certificate, the law effectively locks out the public. Neighbours and community groups have no right to review, object to or appeal these down-sized designs. These were, of course, rammed through. By eliminating minimum or maximum requirements for specific bedroom mixes, this policy actively incentivises a monoculture of small studio and one-bed units, again pushing families out of urban cores. The State committed a severe error by failing to conduct a strategic environmental assessment before introducing these lowered guidelines. The Government's constant changing of legal mechanisms to bypass court challenges has created massive regulatory uncertainty and delays in apartment delivery.  I also want to talk about sections 21 and 42, which refer to adjusting the time for local authority development plan reviews and outline what will occur when elected officials fail to make a plan. The shift from six-year to ten-year development plans is a good idea but it is complex. This Bill allows current local development plans, made under the 2000 Act, to remain legally active on a transitional basis. I have concerns here regarding local government and the role of councillors. Handing ultimate power to central government, if councillors fail to make a plan, is again reducing the power and democratic influence of locally-elected representatives over zoning decisions.  I want to move on and talk about planning in terms of planning posts and resourcing our local authorities. I would argue there are potential resourcing issues here because moving the goalposts for plan review simultaneously across multiple local authorities is logistically very complex. Through the CCMA, local authorities have voiced concern over the severe shortage of qualified planners to meet these compressed transitional deadlines. Replies to parliamentary questions I have received in recent months tell me that a fairly significant number of planners who have been reassigned to, or have been recruited from local authorities by, An Coimisi\u00fain Plean\u00e1la. We need clarity from the Department as to how these critical vacancies will be back-filled at local authority level. I raise this because I have asked a number of parliamentary questions about planning posts. I cannot find out from the Department how these posts will be back-filled. The Department cannot tell me the workforce data for the local government planning sector because of section 159. It cannot tell me the percentage of current or senior executive planners who are eligible for retirement. When we look at the action plan on planning resources, the LGMA said a number of years ago that it needed 541 planning posts. Two hundred and forty four were sanctioned, which is not even half. When we look at phase 1 in 2023, that is fine but phase 2 did not actually come until 2025. The fact remains that a significant majority of council planning positions approved over the past two years remain unfilled due to a lack of available graduates and retention issues due to the fact that, in many cases, the local government sector cannot compete with the private sector on salaries.  I have concerns about potential bottlenecks around the fact that a local development plan cannot be finalised until the regional spatial and economic strategy, RSES is complete. There is a 90-week deadline on regional reviews. I hope there is not any delay at regional assembly level because that will set off a domino effect for local authorities.  I want to talk about section 149, which has to do with the increase in the Housing Finance Agency, HFA, borrowing limit. I have no issue with this; I support it. It is also the second time we have done it in the past year. I would argue that it does not go far enough and that the State needs to invest more in the direct delivery of social and affordable housing. Given that we only extended the borrowing cap in quarter 4 of last year, I would like the Government to take a longer-term review of the remit of the HFA and its borrowing ceiling and to look at the borrowing cap of all 31 local authorities, which is far too low.  As I said, I support efficient planning. I do not think anybody benefits from unnecessary delay but we must have proper planning and that is a fact. I cannot support apartment changes that make developments cheaper by making homes smaller and reducing amenities and design standards. We have already paid the price for poor planning decisions in relation to apartments, when we consider that virtually everything built during the Celtic-tiger period is in some way defective. Every apartment built today should be a home that somebody can comfortably live in permanently.  We, in Labour, have consistently argued that once again, the State must become a major builder of housing. We cannot continue to rely on a volatile private market to solve a crisis that the market itself has failed repeatedly to solve. We need to empower local authorities more. We need to better support the AHB sector, and I will go into that. We also need to look at establishing a State construction company. We need to invest more in modern methods of construction. We need a stable, predictable and properly resourced planning system.  In some of the time available to me, I want to talk about the issues with the cost rental equity loan, CREL, scheme. I have had a decent bit of engagement with the AHB sector, as I am sure the Department has, around the 40-year repayment period. Due to soaring construction costs, many in the AHB sector are saying that this is making cost rental unviable for them. We have AHBs that are pulling the plug on cost-rental developments because the are saying they are not viable. However, at the same time, the way the cost-rental system was designed here means that it is not proper cost rental; it is market discount. We now have a situation where rents in the cost-rental sector are far too high. Yes, they are 29% lower, on average, than on the open market but they are still too high and they need to come down. In the first instance, the Government needs to look at the equity element of the CREL to make sure more cost-rental developments do not end up being pulled.  As I said, I will engage constructively with this Bill. Where there are measures in it that I believe will accelerate housing delivery, while protecting the integrity of proper planning, I will support them. However, where the Government seeks to weaken safeguards, reduce standards and continues to not address the real barriers to housing delivery, then I will continue to challenge that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Clendennen  I welcome this Bill. It will ensure the planning code works effectively when the remaining provisions commence later this year. If we look at the tone and sentiment of this D\u00e1il term, it has been all about delivery across all types of infrastructure while maintaining public confidence in the planning system. If we consider some of the representative bodies, there is a changing view regarding how the pace of progress is increasing.  Over 35,000 homes were delivered last year, an almost doubling since the start of the decade. Some of these measures will ensure that we will have a viability rather than a profitability argument around home development. Sometimes people lose sight of the difference between those two. In reality, we need to ensure we have viability for these projects so that income can cover costs. You can be profitable but have a very unsustainable business model. It is important that with this Bill and its planning guidelines we will see a level of certainty and ensure that the sector can invest. Far too many contractors and developers have moved overseas in recent times because of delays in the system. In fairness to the Minister of State and the Department, they have worked to iron out those challenges and ensure certainty can be given.  Judicial review reform has been critical. We have had several debates at the Oireachtas Committee on Infrastructure and National Development Plan Delivery. In this country, judicial review is seen as the norm rather than the exception. It is part of the planning process. We have five times more judicial reviews than the UK. That is simply not acceptable. If we want to see large-scale projects delivered and certainty for further investment, we have to ensure that the planning system works rather than the judicial system having to work in relation to planning development.  The Minister of State has talked about An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la and some of the measures there to introduce statutory timelines for applications. They are very necessary. However, I am concerned that where a timeline is given, the applicant hears back at the eleventh hour from An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la. There should be some means by which it identifies a problem early and remains engaged with the applicant in the best interests of time and, where possible, it could discuss concurrent issues over time to ensure the challenges are mitigated.  In respect of the development plan, the ten-year period is a welcome step. Again, it gives certainty and we have to be cognisant that any piece of land in this country that is serviced should be in a development plan, regardless of the size, the population or the current demand. We need to be very ambitious about that. With land that is zoned because it has been serviced, an onus has to be put on the landowner to ensure that land is made available for development. Utility providers, such as Irish Water, need to show a greater element of transparency as to what capacity they have in every town and village right across the country and keep that updated with potential developments.  The interpretation of standards around the country can vary. I have seen this in my constituency with the over-the-shop grant that has been introduced. There seems to be a level of complication there and the whole purpose of what the Minister of State and the Department are doing is to iron out those challenges and ensure we make these more seamless.  Housing delivery is key and I fundamentally believe that ensuring planning permissions that are already in the system can continue without unnecessary delay will be an important part of this Bill. The Government is making a commitment for increased funding. I have seen in my county what the land activation scheme has done to unlock 2,000 new homes and rely not just on public sector development of housing but on the private sector as well. There is a commitment here that will go down well with the construction industry to ensure we can see a greater level of development.  We are committing almost one in five euro to the likes of energy in the current infrastructure plan for the country. That is a monumental change to our commitment to infrastructure. It will give the confidence to ensure we see the housing, transport development and water development.  In relation to modern methods of construction, a company in County Offaly, Banagher Precast Concrete, specialises in precast concrete and exports it all over the world. Recently, from a transport perspective, the Design Manual for Urban Roads and Streets, DMURS, was introduced to ensure more footpaths and narrower roads. However, there is then an issue with these oversized vehicles being transferred along the roads of Ireland. We have to get that right. We cannot have the construction industry moving to more prefabrication and more consistency in quality by moving to in-workshop manufacturing and transporting it on the road while roads are being narrowed.  I want to touch on the area of resources. Planners and the Office of the Planning Regulator are going to play a key role in this. I get a sense of concern from planners on the front line about this and about how it is going to be interpreted and implemented. The one thing I call for today is that if the Office of the Planning Regulator is currently committed to engaging with senior planners in relation to that training and roll-out, they might ensure it goes further down through the organisation so planners at all levels are aware and can share on-the-ground issues that senior planners, no disrespect to them, may not be aware of.  Overall, this Bill is very positive and constructive. It sends out a very important message that we want to deliver, deliver, deliver. I thank the Minister of State for bringing it forward. I will share the remainder of my time with Deputy Devlin. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  I thank Deputy Clendennen. I welcome and support the Bill, which implements the reforms agreed by the D\u00e1il in 2024 and will accelerate the supply of housing. The housing crisis is the defining challenge facing this country and we all see the impact in our weekly clinics. The Planning and Development Act 2024 was the largest reform of our planning legislation in a generation. I want to focus on three elements of the Bill. The first is the judicial review. The Bill applies the new procedural rules for planning judicial review, introduced in the 2024 Act, to remaining decisions made under the 2000 Act. That means the removal of the separate leave stage. It also means a case can be remitted to the point where a procedural breach occurred, rather than an entire permission being quashed. It means an end to further appeals to the Court of Appeal in those cases.  Each of these measures cuts time and unnecessary legal costs for all parties concerned. It is worth being clear about the impact. This is not about shutting anyone out of the courts. Judicial review remains available to any person with a genuine case. What these changes remove is duplication, cost and delay. Of course, delay serves nobody.  On the second point, strategic planning, the Bill sets a 90-week deadline for the review of the three regional, spatial and economic strategies so that they will be completed by the end of 2027. It allows current development plans to remain in force on a transitional basis until a fixed date no later than the end of 2030. That gives local authorities the space to complete their reviews properly and to introduce a ten-year development plan on time. Ten-year plans give certainty for communities, for councils and for those delivering homes and the infrastructure that serves them.  Third, on infrastructure, the Bill delivers on actions assigned to the Department under the Accelerating Infrastructure Taskforce Report and Action Plan 2025. Homes need water, they need power and transport, and the Bill streamlines the consenting process for the critical projects that make housing possible. It also allows existing apartment permissions to be modified in line with updated apartment design standards. These measures can unlock sites that are permitted but stalled. Permitted but stalled is the worst of all worlds, and we have too much of that.  I want to address public participation directly, because it matters. Streamlining and participation are not opposites. Under the Bill, public consultation on development plans remains. Submissions on planning applications remain, as do appeals. What changes is the speed and the certainty of the process, not the right of people to have their say.  In my constituency of D\u00fan Laoghaire, residents engage seriously and constructively with the planning system. I will always defend their right to do so. A faster system must also be a fair system. Every month that we take out of the planning process is a key turned in a front door a month sooner. That is what this Bill is essentially about.  I ask the Minister to publish a clear commencement timetable for the remaining provisions and to ensure that local authorities, such as D\u00fan Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, are properly resourced for the transition to planning under the new Act. Housing is the priority and this Bill helps us deliver it. I support the Bill and look forward to its implementation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Carol Nolan  I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Bill. There are certainly constructive and long-overdue elements within this legislation, particularly the reforms proposed around judicial reviews. For far too long, communities, local authorities and applicants have been trapped in cycles of chronic delay - delays that frequently extend into years. We all know of cases where judicial review has been used not as genuine oversight but as a tool for procedural abuse of the courts.  Anything that brings greater clarity, tighter timelines and more predictable outcomes is certainly welcome.  I also want to address the multiple sections of the Bill that amend the Planning and Development Act 2000 to introduce a new planning designation of key towns. As I read them, these sections appear to outline how certain towns will receive prioritised treatment in development plans, investment strategies and planning decision-making. While the concept may have merit in regard to balanced regional development, I must raise a very direct concern on behalf of many small towns and villages across my county of Offaly and the wider midlands area. We cannot allow a situation where preferential treatment for designated key towns ends up diverting resources, planning capacity or infrastructural investment away from the smaller communities, communities with populations under 10,000 that already struggle to secure basic services and development certainty. Will the Minister of State provide clarity? Will these sections create a two-tier planning system? We certainly do not want to make our planning system any more frustrating, bureaucratic or unfair than it already it is.  Will smaller towns and villages be disadvantaged in favour of the key designated towns and what safeguards will be put in place to ensure rural communities are not left behind? Counties like Offaly depend on balanced development, not concentrated development. These sections must not become a mechanism that unintentionally sidelines rural Ireland or disadvantages rural Ireland in any way.  While the Bill seeks to reduce delays in planning processes, I must contrast that ambition with the massive and escalating backlog within Tailte \u00c9ireann, an issue I have repeatedly exposed through parliamentary questions. We are all given an Oireachtas email to correspond with Tailte \u00c9ireann, but, as far as I can see, it is an absolute waste of time. In the past few weeks, I have sent at least four issues to Tailte \u00c9ireann. These were genuine issues relating to businesses, in the context of their registration, and to elderly people who want to sell their properties and move into a town. Both process are affected by delays. The stock response seems to be to get the lodging party to expedite their case. If a TD is already informing those involved of the circumstances and outlining genuine reasons relating to an elderly person's well-being and health and stating that they want to get their registration finalised, what is the point of telling us to go to the solicitor again? Is that not creating more of a maze and a bureaucratic mess?  I am fed up contacting Tailte \u00c9ireann. I ask the Minister of State to intervene urgently with it. I am not happy at all with the responses I am getting. I feel I am being fobbed off. What is happening is a cop-out. Registrations should not take three years to complete. There is something seriously wrong if they are taking that long. What is happening is totally unacceptable. I have several cases, as I said. I was approached by a business that needs to expand as a matter of urgency. It is tied up in this. I have several elderly constituents who are also tied up in this. I am asking for urgent intervention with Tailte \u00c9ireann because, in my view, it does not seem to be fit for purpose.  This Bill seeks to reduce delays I welcome that, but if we are serious about doing so, we need to improve efficiency as well. That is why I feel that the reins need to be taken and that action taken in respect of Tailte \u00c9ireann. The data provided to me also confirm a rapid and exponential build-up in property registration delays, as I have already outlined. I have confirmed already that for 2025 alone, over 50,000 applications remain pending. That is disgraceful. What message is that sending out to businesses or even companies looking to come in here to invest. What sort of a message is that sending out? That is a logjam that should not be there.  Across the years, arrears now exceed 90,000 applications. This backlog has seriously delayed property transactions, agricultural transfers, conveyancing and housing delivery and has had a direct impact on market efficiency across Ireland. It is also damaging our reputation in respect of companies or businesses trying to expand or invest, when they see this. This has to be sorted out. I accept that some steps have been taken in regard to fully staffing Tailte \u00c9ireann registration team and accelerated recruitment, but I, as a TD, I am not seeing the benefits. There is no point in giving us an email address for Tailte \u00c9ireann if it is not going to give us proper responses. There certainly needs to be change in that regard. The figures speak for themselves. They are the facts. The backlog that has escalated dramatically and that continues to impose uncertainty and delay on families, farmers, solicitors and businesses is totally unacceptable. There should not be a backlog. If we are serious about tackling delays in our planning system, then we must also be serious about tackling delays in the property registration system. One cannot function without the other.  While we are discussing planning reform, I have to take the opportunity to highlight the deeply distressing situation facing families in Stonestown, Cloghan, County Offaly, in terms of a wind farm development. Those families have been living through what can only be described as mental and physical torture arising from excessive wind turbine noise, vibration and operational practices. I raised this issue here in the D\u00e1il a number of times. Those families need to be listened to. Their health is suffering. I met the families involved. They are young couples, and they and their families are suffering terribly as a result of what is happening in the context of a wind farm that was imposed on them and that they did not want.  I have reviewed the noise diaries kept by the affected families. To say that they are harrowing is an understatement. They provide a harrowing record of the families' suffering, The constant humming, a heavy vibration throughout their houses and nights of relative quiet while testing equipment is present, followed by a sudden return to a roaring noise once the equipment is removed. That seems to be what is happening. These families are enduring sleep deprivation, physical pain, emotional distress and severe disruption to their lives. They have been left waiting almost six months for a basic communication from Statkraft's contractors. It is not good enough. There should be respect given where, if there are health issues and concerns, then immediately a wind farm should be told to stop its operation. There are serious health concerns. I call on the Ministers to intervene in that case. It really is a public health failure that has been enabled by weak enforcement and inconsistent monitoring. I will continue to raise this matter on behalf of the families of Stonestown in Cloghan with the Minister, the EPA and Offaly County Council. No family in Ireland should be subjected to what these families are being subjected to in Stonestown.  While I welcome aspects of the planning Bill, particularly the judicial review reforms, I must emphasise that planning reform cannot be selective. It has to be cohesive and ensure that proper practices, procedures and agencies are operating efficiently. I refer, in particular, to Tailte \u00c9ireann, which is not fit for purpose. There needs to be something done there.  The Bill cannot focus on one part of the system while ignoring others. It cannot prioritise key towns while leaving small towns and villages in rural Ireland behind and it cannot claim to reduce delays while thousands remain stuck - in what should be a simple registration process - in a backlog that has totally spiralled out of control. We need a planning system that is fair, efficient, transparent and responsive, and that also collaborates properly with TDs. We are sick of stock answers. I will not be accepting any more stock answers. We need a registration system that is a properly resourced and functional system and we need an enforcement system that protects people.  I look forward to the Minister of State's clarification regarding section 11 and its implications for rural Ireland in the context of the priority towns. My county of Offaly has been disadvantaged. We have not seen enough investment or balanced regional development, and, no more than any other county in the State, we need to be treated fairly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Deputy \u00d3 Broin spoke about how the Planning and Development Act 2024 was meant to be the be all and end all and that there would be no need for all these updates.  That is not the position we find ourselves, however. I echo the complaints made by Deputy \u00d3 Broin and others about this legislation being rushed. While we can accept that there are technicalities that need to be dealt with, this is just not the way to do it, particularly in circumstances where Committee Stage amendments needed to be submitted prior to Second Stage commencing.  I recall talking to some planners about the Planning and Development Act. They spoke about the issues they had with and fears about the initial iterations of that legislation. Those issues and fears came from a perspective to the effect that what we were doing was simply creating, on some level, a large piece of legislation that would be taken apart in court cases. Unfortunately, we still do not have a fit-for-purpose system to deliver sensible and sustainable planning, while also allowing for all the necessary inputs.  At some level, we welcome the fact that we have seen something in respect of rural and Gaeltacht housing. We have all been waiting for guidelines on one-off houses in rural areas for a long time. We need to deal with the issue of the Gaeltacht. We must facilitate people from the Gaeltacht to live there. We must also take into account the rights of Irish speakers. I am not entirely sure that is going to happen, however. We have worries that we could be looking at a circumstance where this could mean fewer homes being built for Irish speakers within Gaeltacht areas. That needs to be addressed.  We have seen a bit more flexibility when it comes to one-off rural houses. I do not think there are too many in this House who come from rural backgrounds or who have huge rural areas in their constituencies who have not had to deal and have conversations with planners about what constitutes backland and ribbon development. We always look for that level of flexibility, while accepting that health and safety issues, particularly sight lines, are sacrosanct. At times, we have seen planners in different areas and those operating in the same areas come down differently on particular issues. We must ensure we see that flexibility on backland development and rural rightsizing.  We must also consider the wider idea of economic need and include the likes of teaching as a service, rather than simply those who work directly in agriculture. We all need to see that because we have seen the difficulty those who want to live in the area where they were born have in this regard.  In the context of infrastructure, there are huge issues with Uisce \u00c9ireann. I am looking a follow-up meeting with Uisce \u00c9ireann in respect of my constituency. I would welcome if the Minister of State would add his voice to that. I am seeking to ensure that we have sustainable planning. There is currently a big planning application in Louth around C\u00fa Chulainn\u2019s Castle. I would like to think all necessary stakeholders have put in their observations. We must ensure we look at this from a point of view of housing, heritage, history, etc. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important Bill. I echo what the previous speaker, Deputy Nolan, said regarding Tailte \u00c9ireann and the email address we were given. Like me, the Minister of State is from a country area and will, therefore, have heard the saying, \u201cPlaying handball against a haystack\u201d. That is what trying to deal with Tailte \u00c9ireann is like. The registration system is simply not working. I have cases, as other Deputies will have, where there are delays with registration. I would like the Minister of State and his officials to take note of this, because there is a real problem. I have a case of a young farmer who has to change the plot of land the farmhouse has been on for the past 200 years. The title is in the name of a previous landlord. That landlord is long gone, and the title has to be changed into the farmer's family name. He farms the land around it. He owns that 90-acre farm, but he has to live in a town eight miles away. He is living in private rental accommodation with his young family. He is a young, active and progressive farmer, but there are constant delays with this. Solicitors are even on to us inquiring whether we can do anything about it. Something has to be done.  I will provide an example. Ten years ago, whenever I had a case in Laois where there was a difficulty with registration and I needed to contact the Land Registry, I phoned the office on Cork Road in Waterford and asked to be put through to the Laois section. The phone was always answered, which was fantastic. I gave the folio number and if the staff were not able to solve the issue there and then, they came back to me within 24 hours. They never failed in that regard. They did their best. I understand that there are procedures to go through, such as the notification of interested parties or parties who may have an interest in property, but this email system is like trying to play handball against a haystack. I ask the Minister of State and his officials - it comes under the Department of local government and housing, as far as I know - to sort this out. Someone needs to do something.  There are some good things in the Bill. Of course, there have been concerns about judicial reviews. We cannot have a situation where project after project is delayed unnecessarily, particularly by people who are not affected and who may be objecting for other reasons. However, I defend the right of affected parties to have the option of taking a judicial review as a last resort. That may include people who own adjoining properties but who do not live in the relevant area. More particularly, it is about those who live in the area. I support tightening this up and ensuring that it does not unduly delay projects that are badly needed.  The concept of having key towns is good and makes common sense. Obviously, we do not want to see smaller towns and villages suffering as a consequence of what is being done in this regard. I will come back to that point before I finish. If we are going to designate key towns, they must have essential services, including jobs, health and educational services, school places and sports and leisure facilities. They cannot be just a series of housing estates dropped in fields around the edges of towns. That is important.  Some Deputies indicated that they welcome the certainty with the county development plan process. While I definitely do not want to be delaying these things for too long, I have concerns about the ten-year duration. I was on the council for the makings of a couple of county development plans. One problem I see with this - it could be an unintended consequence - is that we could end up with variations to county development plans. We will have material contraventions, which can be carried out within the period of county development plan while awaiting a new one. I have been there for those. Two weeks ago, Laois County Council implemented a variation. I have the new plan in my office. The variation is as big as the plan. Effectively, it is a new plan. This is something that the Minister of State needs to take on board.  The other thing is the role of the councillors. The briefing note from the Department outlines the engagements it had in this regard. It states, \u201cThe Department and the Minister engaged with the County and City Management Association [fair enough], the Planning, Environmental and Local Government Bar Association [that is all right too], the Irish Planning Institute and the Construction Industry Federation\u201d. Engagement with councillors is not mentioned. There was no engagement with the representative body of local government. Why was the Association of Irish Local Government not contacted? The Local Authorities Members Association was not contacted either. Year after year, with every issue and piece of legislation that has anything to do with local government, councillors are never contacted. I remember raising this kind of nonsense with Phil Hogan when he was Minister 15 years ago. Councillors were forgotten about. No one, not senior officials or anyone at a senior political level in government, thought it fit to speak to councillors.  That is what it says in the briefing note and that is an omission. That is the other concern I have with ten years. I see the need for certainty. It is a six-year process at the moment. Fair enough, we could go to seven or eight years but ten years is a lot. It is a long time. We will finish up with an unintended consequence of material contravention to the plan having to be brought before the councils on a regular basis, as well as variations. The variation made in County Laois is a positive one. It was needed. The Department and the Government requested it and the councillors and management obliged. The councillors got it fairly right. They put a lot of work into it along with the planners. I want to highlight that.  Regarding apartment sizes, what are we going to do? Are we going to keep going until we have people living in shoe boxes? Before I came in here I measured 32 sq. m in my office, so I know what it means. Part of my office in Leinster House is 32 sq. m. That is lunacy and it is really unfair. I know the developers wanted it and the Construction Federation of Ireland has been hammering on the Minister's door for a few years to try to extract more profit. The Minister of State will say a lot more apartments are being built now but there are a lot of other reasons for that and we all know what they are. This means more profit, less space and the position of renters and people trying to buy their first home being diminished. Some 32 sq. m is awful. Some 76 sq. m for three-bedroom accommodation is awful. Has anyone here ever lived in a house of 76 sq. m? I lived in a house that was 57 sq. m and it was very small. It is 32 sq. m for a two-bedroom house. A three-bedroom house of 76 sq. m is awful. It is not fair to people. We have to start thinking about quality of life. Profit has won out in this country over everything else.  On the rural planning guidelines, in general I welcome what has been announced this week by the Minister. We do not have all the details yet. We need to be careful that we do not end up with scatters of housing all over the place. People who genuinely need to live in a rural area for work reasons or who have a family connection should be allowed to do so, subject to considerations such as environmental and planning regulations, etc. Laois County Council has operated close to that model over the years.  However, it is a missed opportunity, and the Minister of State may tell me he will come back to this. If we want rural development done properly, we need to build up, along with the changes in the guidelines. As I said, we need to be careful. We do not want a turbo-charged bungalow blitz, although we want to facilitate those who genuinely need to live in a rural area. If we want to do rural development properly, we must build up and consolidate the cores of our villages. If we want to create and strengthen rural communities, we must have living villages.  The Minister of State knows that in his constituency as in mine, there are many villages which are not living villages. The shop is closed and the post office, service station and Garda station are gone. If we want rural areas to play a significant role as well as address the housing crisis, we must have strong village structures. That has to be part of and central to any housing policy.  I support genuine efforts to speed up the delivery of and to facilitate housing. Too many of our villages have been hollowed out due to a lack of new housing and opportunities to live in them. There are huge benefits to living in a rural village. Young people can walk to school and people can walk to the local pub, church or sports field. In nearly all villages, there is now a bus link and that is important. If we can consolidate the cores of villages and get people living in them, children can walk to school and people can walk to the local shop, pub, church or sports field. As I said, most villages have at least a limited bus service and that reduces the need to always use a car. In villages people have neighbours and family support, often nearby. If a person needs home help services when they get elderly, it is easier to provide it in villages than it is way out in the countryside. Importantly, in villages people also have access to utilities, which also reduce a person\u2019s carbon footprint about which we are all concerned. One-off housing does not have that. I am not against one-off housing. In general, I support what is being done in relation to the policy on those who genuinely need to live in a rural area. However, we need to be careful not to cover the whole place with unnecessary rural housing. I am arguing instead to consolidate the cores of villages.  This needs the councils to zone land close to the centre of villages. There cannot be leapfrogging. There are too many examples of leapfrogging over the years where ten fields have been missed and then half a mile up the road there is a new housing estate with no footpath, no public lighting and a long distance to connect sewers. It is expensive to do that and the car is still used to get to the local shop. That is not the way we should be doing it. These houses should be close to the centre of the village. This means zoning land for private and public housing close to villages and local authorities building, where needed, small clusters of social housing. There are some good examples of that but we need more of them.  I suggest that councils develop serviced sites, and there are a few good examples in County Laois. Castletown is one example and Ballyroan is another. Sites, roughly a quarter of an acre on the edges of the village, are sold at cost-price to people in the area who want to build their own modest house and have a reasonably-sized garden. The Minister of State knows that many people in rural areas are self-employed, and they might have a van, a trailer, JCB or something like that. A person cannot bring that into a housing estate but if they are living on the edge of a village and have a quarter of an acre of a site, that is the problem solved. This fits in with the lifestyle. I ask the Minister of State to take the example of Ballyroan in County Laois, which has ten serviced sites developed by the council. Since we zoned land there in 2006, the Cross of Newtown, the Glenbrook estate and Gleann na Glaise, which is a council estate, have been developed there, along with the ten council serviced sites. Everything is in three or four minutes walking distance to the school, church, the pubs, all of which are open, and to the GAA and the soccer clubs. The other day a fantastic new playground opened. That is the type of development we need to see. I can show the Minister of State villages where that has not happened and where the whole village has been hollowed out. Many of the villages need a small wastewater treatment system or what the one they have to be upgraded. Some of that will come by way of development levies but some of it will not and will need funding. My point is that is one way of doing it.  I argue that if we are serious about rural development, along with making it possible for people who have to live in a rural area to build a one-off property, we have to build up our villages and connect them with public transport. A start has been made and it is working well but there is more work to do. Every county has a network of villages, which could help us to solve the housing crisis.  I accept that the vacant property grant is working reasonably well. We are not getting any complaints. That is how I know it is going all right. If it was not working well, people would be complaining about it. It is bringing houses, including some in rural areas and villages, back into use.  I mentioned Tailte \u00c9ireann. I would say it is like playing handball in a haystack. It is absolutely frustrating. The Minister of State is a Waterford TD. Ten years ago, if there was a problem with a registration or property and a constituent or their solicitor were getting nowhere with it, they would contact me to see if I could do anything about it.  I would ring the Land Registry in the Minister of State's constituency, on Cork Road in Waterford, and ask to be put through to the lease section. Someone would answer the phone, if not the first time then I would get them an hour later and they would address the problem immediately. They were very helpful. Now we have an email address and we might as well be doing something I will not say in the Chamber. That is the point I am making. There are some good things in the Bill, such as the judicial review measure, but we need to be careful with people who are living in the locality.  The change to apartment size is the one I have a real problem with. I measured 32 sq. m in my office to see what is involved before I came to the Chamber. It is tiny. It is not fair to ask people to live in accommodation of that size. Three-bedroom accommodation of 76 sq. m is awful. We need to start thinking about people's quality of life. At the same time we are doing away with the common spaces. We cannot have it every way. There is not going to be any storage or common area, yet a family is going to be confined in a three-bedroom apartment of 76 sq. m. That is not good enough. That is the piece I have a problem with. Everybody has got their way - the Construction Industry Federation, CIF, the investors, the developers and everyone else but tenants and purchasers who are paying big mortgages and high rents are the ones that are suffering. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  Cuirim f\u00e1ilte aireach roimh an mBille seo. N\u00edl m\u00e9 cinnte go bhfuil gach rud at\u00e1 sa Bhille i gceart. T\u00e1 roinnt fadhbanna agam leis freisin. I give a cautious welcome to the Bill. I recognise what it is attempting to do but I want to raise a couple of issues with the Minister of State. The first one is something I raise in general about legislation, which is a drafting issue. It is not specific to planning legislation. When the Bill becomes an Act, if a citizen tries to read it, almost every single section describes an amendment to either the Planning and Development Act 2000 or the 2024 Act, which means that this Act will not be legible without also having copies of those two Acts. That makes it very difficult for any citizen to penetrate. It is not unique to this legislation. It is something that we do as a matter of course in this House but I think it is bad practice. We should be able to pick up the law and read it and have an idea of what it says. Even in the description of the sections it does not tell us what the amendment is supposed to do. It just says it is an amendment to section 38 of the 2000 Act, or whatever it might be. It would be much more constructive, in the first instance, to say what that amending section is supposed to do but, second, to take the section that is being amended, repeal it and restate it in the legislation so it is there for everyone to read. It is a simple thing that we could do as a general practice in this House but we do not. That is obviously a drafting point that will get exactly no traction with anyone outside this House but it is pertinent to this legislation because one of the aims here is apparently to improve clarity, if the explanatory memorandum and the bumpf around this is to be believed. It is a simple thing.  Generally speaking, the aims of the Bill are clear and well placed. It makes perfect sense to me to increase the Housing Finance Agency's statutory borrowing limit to \u20ac15 billion. I do not have a difficulty with that. I wonder if maybe we should index link these limits rather than coming back every few years to change them in an amending piece of legislation. We could save ourselves the hassle if we just linked the limit to an index that allowed it to increase accordingly every year.  I also agree with the comments that have been made about apartment sizes. We cannot win on this in some respects because on the one hand we have people telling us that in order to make projects viable, they have to reduce the unit size in order to make them easier to build. I get that but I honestly find it difficult to understand how developers cannot make a profit in the current environment with house prices and rental prices where they are. It is difficult to understand how when it was profitable to build the same thing a number of years ago, even taking into account the increasing cost of materials, etc., it cannot be built in a profitable way even at the standards we had before. I am not sure that the reduction in building standards and the size of apartments is the answer.  I live in an apartment of less than 80 m sq. It is not a bad place to live or anything like that but the more we reduce the size the less livable the space becomes. That is increasingly true if we have families in that space, especially larger families with more children. Irish people have not got their heads around the notion that we can live in apartments perfectly comfortably. One of the mistakes we have made in this jurisdiction in terms of apartment living is that in a three-bedroom apartment, for example, there is only one reception room or one living space. If you have in that space two or three kids - anybody who has two or three kids will be familiar with this notion - one space can be very difficult and it is not built for harmonious family living. Maybe changing the attitude to what a family dwelling looks likes in terms of the layout of it will be an important thing.  I also welcome the move to ten-year county development plans. The existing structure means that almost as soon as the last one is finished, we are looking at preparations for the next one so I think a ten-year period is more reasonable. I would favour much greater powers for elected councillors. Again, this is something I have complained about to the Minister of State. I complained about it to him when we were both councillors, never mind when he became Minister of State in the Department of housing. We do not give nearly enough power or credit to councillors. They are the hardest working elected people in this country, yet they have no resources but worse than that, they have no powers. The reality is that most councillors around the country, be they city or county councillors, are effectively local ambassadors to the chief executive of a given local authority or the director of services. In real terms, decisions are made at local government level by unelected officials who are not accountable to the local population, who will never knock on the door of a local resident and ask them what they think about the development plan or whatever issue it is, and who do not actually have their feet on the ground the way councillors do. Councillors are doing this all the time. They are knocking on doors. They are at residents' meetings and public meetings. They are available to people and they hear people's views all the time. In my view they are much better equipped to make decisions for the people they represent than officials who are answerable really only to the Custom House or to the Department of local government.  We have the least powerful and most centralised local government system in the whole of the European Union. We should change that. Changing it is a vote of confidence in the fact that at local level, we have genuinely competent, capable, responsible, hardworking elected representatives and we should be devolving power to them, particularly when it comes to planning. We all know that in the 1990s, there was a certain small cohort of councillors who misbehaved and acted in a criminal fashion in some instances. I understand why when we got to the year 2000 that the law had to be changed to take planning decisions out of the hands of councillors because they had been misused and we had to re-establish confidence in planning decisions but the world has changed a lot since 2000. The level of accountability, scrutiny and regulation of councillors has massively changed. It was our party that set up many of those changes in how we require people to be accountable, in terms of their behaviour, their conflicts of interest, moneys they receive, donations, fundraising, all of that stuff. That has been completely changed. We now have the Standards in Public Office Commission whose sole job is to regulate politicians in terms of that behaviour. It is important to have this debate in the context of this legislation. We should now be looking at returning to a situation where we are giving decision-making powers about local planning back to councillors rather than constantly leaving it in the hands of officials who are not accountable.  At the moment we have a massive democratic deficit in terms of planning decisions that is unique in the context of the European Union because councillors are not making planning decisions. In fact, when I was a councillor, I avoided ringing planners about issues because I did not want to be seen to be interfering in that process when, actually, I should have been the one making the decision. I am not a professional planner but we used to have planning committees that were advised by professional planners and we had the benefit of all that expertise. If the decision to be made is to be a democratic one, it should be made by democratically elected people and should reflect the democratic will of the people in a given area. That is a broader point than the legislation before us but it is important given this is planning and development legislation.  I will turn to what I think is probably the main impetus of this legislation, which is about the reform of the judicial review in the planning process. Again, in broad terms, I welcome this. I recognise that Gabriel Makhlouf, the Governor of the Central Bank, said last year that the number one problem in housing development delivery was planning - not financing or other things but planning for the provision of local amenities and utilities. That is a fair criticism. It is far too slow. I recognise also that in Dublin, for example, at the moment there are 9,562 houses being delayed by judicial review. That is an astonishing figure given where we are in the current crisis and what we have to do. That is also about 16.5% of all the development in Dublin, so it is a shocking figure. It does merit being dealt with and a situation where we actually address that problem.  However, there are ways we can address it other than trying to put a stricture on judicial review. Judicial review is a constitutional right that is afforded to Irish citizens. It is built into our Constitution and is a really positive thing. It is something that we have beyond most European countries, in fact. We have this right as a citizen to challenge an administrative decision made by a State agency, Minister or whatever it might be, go to an independent High Court judge and say we think this decision has not been made correctly, there is a flaw in the process and we want the judge to examine it. That is a right that we have given the people of this country since the 1930s. I understand that it is frustrating. Sometimes, the exercise of rights is inconvenient. I also understand that the Minister of State has to do something about it because he cannot allow the situation to continue where there is delay in the construction and delivery of housing for the people who need it. I accept all of that. Faster decisions and faster delivery are aims we must all strive for. However, we can look at the way we do it.  For starters, one of the reasons judicial review is slow is because of the resources allocated to the courts. We do not have enough judges, courtrooms or staff in the Courts Service to process these decisions. We had this problem many years ago in relation to corporate cases. We stepped in and changed the way they were dealt with. There was a specific, highly managed list created within the High Court for cases involving companies and cases that were worth more that \u20ac1 million. One judge was responsible for saying what the timeline was once a case came to court, including the deadlines - side A would present their submissions in two weeks' time and side B would respond in four weeks' time, there be an opportunity in six weeks' time to come back, and there would be a hearing to deal with the case in eight weeks' time. There were severe penalties built in for people who did not comply with that timetable. There was an order of the court to move it along. That could be done with judicial review but there is a resource issue with doing that.  Equally, the penalisation of fees is essentially an attack on those bringing judicial reviews. I do not think that is the answer either. I wonder about access to justice and whether this is the right road to go down. There is obviously the locus standi issue as well, which I know is being addressed. The notion that I could live in Letterkenny and object to something in Wexford town is an absolute nonsense. In very few other areas of law is somebody with no standing allowed to make an objection the way they are in planning cases. That is something I favour removing. You should be able to demonstrate some interest in a decision or some reason as to why you are affected by it before you are entitled to start to interfere, delay or review it. That is common sense. It is what normally applies in all other areas of law.  In terms of what this Bill is actually trying to achieve, if we could come at it in a slightly different way, it would be better, fairer and more transparent. We should not be afraid of judicial reviews or of the High Court stepping in to look at a decision openly and transparently. In a court, everything is done in public and a decision is usually written and delivered afterwards where it is set out in clear terms why the decision has been made one way or the other. We should not be afraid of that. We should be resourcing reviews so that decisions can be rendered quickly rather than delayed, as is currently the case. While I appreciate the end point we are trying to get to and the fact that nearly 10,000 houses in Dublin cannot continue to be delayed where a judicial review is partly responsible, let us look at this in the round and see if there is a better way.  I give a cautious welcome to the Bill. I hope I am wrong about this and that it is going to deliver things and there will not be any ancillary problems. I look forward to its passage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine  Before I start, the Housing Agency was tasked with researching and monitoring housing-based interventions that sought to strengthen social cohesion. I am wondering if that report informed this Bill, or if there is yet to be a report.  If you ask the people of Dublin South-Central, they will clearly tell you that affordable and social housing is key in addressing the fragmentation and displacement of their communities, as vulture funds, student accommodation and transient accommodation smother their area. Swathes of high-rise, transient accommodation have been imposed on their communities. The historical community of the Liberties is choked with eight-to-12-storey blocks of student accommodation that have forever changed the small streetscape and skyscape of Dublin's oldest settlement. Likewise, the aparthotels that cater for this, the premier tourist trail in the country, have resulted in what we call a tourist paradox, a phenomenon that is growing worldwide where tourism and transient visitors destroy the cultural environment that is necessary for tourism activity in the first place. The recent protests at Thomas Street's aparthotel development proved to the be tipping point for locals, who are furious at yet another planning permission for a bland, featureless and cheapening development while their community is scattered to the wind, along with the exodus of home-grown businesses and community facilities. Unaffordable housing is divisive. Tensions are rising and discontent is wholly understandable.  The affordability crisis represents a social challenge that must be addressed. It must be front and centre and the cornerstone of Government policy. Access to affordable housing enables broader social cohesion and strengthens communities, something we desperately need to encourage, support and nurture in these days of sometimes turmoil across our cities and Europe. This legislation should include and encourage site visits so as to give a helicopter view of the context of what is being proposed when assessing large developments, or at least a real-time video of the area and a virtual walk-through to gain a perspective on and understanding of the visual impact, scale and impositions of developments of this nature in the inner cities. They have swallowed up and bulldozed a lot of traditional streetscapes, and with them a lot of our communities in the inner city. Those streetscapes are our urban gems and they are being diluted and dismissed regularly. This has been concentrated in inner cities over the last decade.  Affordable housing is a linchpin that sets the groundwork for a stable living environment for families. It is crucial for personal and communal growth. Stability nurtures people and protects their well-being. Government policy must prioritise this and not be an indifferent bystander to the experience of inner city communities that have long encountered deliberate neglect, disinterest and abandonment. The Minister, Deputy James Browne, got some insight into this when, albeit pushed, he visited the Liberties. That visit was welcome and propelled the decision to answer to the locals and replan the generation that was parked. The State must invest in our people, our families and our working-class communities. That is the priority. We deserve better. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Before calling Deputy Michael Collins, I would like to welcome to the Gallery Joe, Lorraine and Miche\u00e1l Croke, who are visiting from Lowertown in Schull at the request of Deputy Collins. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I concur with the welcome you made to the Croke family, a Cheann Comhairle. They have been so helpful to the people of Lowertown and Cross Barry for many years on a voluntary basis, helping people with local gardening and all the works that need to be done there. They are a great addition to be here in the D\u00e1il today.  Independent Ireland supports the objective behind this Bill. We all know that our planning system has become too slow, complex and bureaucratic. Delays in planning are delaying homes and infrastructure and frustrating communities right across rural and urban Ireland. There are a number of positive measures in this legislation. The extension of existing development plans provides certainty, while local authorities prepare the new ten-year plan. The measures aimed at accelerating electricity, gas and other strategic infrastructure are welcome. Without adequate infrastructure, we simply cannot deliver the housing that people desperately need. We also recognise the potential benefits of allowing approved apartment developments to be modified more easily. If sensible changes can help deliver more homes and improve viability without unnecessary delays, that is something we should support.  However, faster planning must never mean less accountability. One concern for Independent Ireland is the growing centralisation of decision-making. The Bill allows regional directors and chief executives to take greater control where deadlines are missed. We must ensure that elected councillors and local representatives are not sidelined in the process. Local democracy matters and local communities deserve to have their voices heard. We also need assurances that rural Ireland will benefit equally from these reforms. Faster infrastructure delivery cannot be confined to major urban centres.  Rural roads, water services, electricity networks and community infrastructure must receive the same priority if balanced regional development is to become a reality.  The Government says that these changes will reduce delays, increase housing supply and improve legal certainty. Those are worthwhile goals. However, the real test will be whether more homes are built, infrastructure projects are delivered faster, and whether the public continues to have confidence in the planning process. Independent Ireland will engage constructively with this Bill. We support cutting red tape and removing needless obstacles, but we will also need to insist on protections for local democracy, ensuring that rural communities are not left behind, and the maintenance of safeguards.  Communities have concerns. There is one thing we have to be careful of. I met a group from Wexford last week. Its members want clarity. The Minister of State might be able to give it to me today or at a future date. Precisely what grant of planning permission exists for new railways overbridge at Park-Carcur just outside Wexford? I have been told that the CEO of Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann and the Minister for Transport claim that this bridge is covered by a planning application from a third-party developer, but it seems that that is not the case. The bridge appears to have been constructed with taxpayers\u2019 money without planning permission. I would appreciate if the Minister of State could clarify that issue in the days ahead.  In this Bill, we have to look at the current situation. We are talking about county development plans lasting longer, but my concern is that mistakes are being made. The mistake in the county development plan is that the local representatives are being squeezed. I know it from my time from 2014 to 2016 on the local authority. We had a hell of a lot to say in relation to county development plans. Now, I find that my councillors have very little say. It is from the top down. We need to change that.  There was a village nucleus. We want to look after the survivors of rural Ireland. Urban areas are hugely to Independent Ireland, too. They put a village nucleus into areas where there was public transport, a local church and a local shop. You build around that area. They withdraw that in the next county development. That was a negative move to make because it was killing rural Ireland. There are communities out there losing their post offices, little creameries and churches because communities are dying. They are losing GAA clubs, which is a very serious concern, and their soccer clubs. We need to put the focus back on how we build small rural communities. That is how we do it. If there is a local school bus service or local rural transport service passing these doors, that is how you build around a community and that community grows. That is an area that the Department needs to look at and have a very serious focus on. County development plans are from the top down. That is not the way it should be. The local authorities need to have a stronger say.  We have to look at issues like housing, roads and transport. Money is being spent on infrastructure. It is hugely important. Uisce \u00c9ireann has become unaccountable. One cannot talk to it. When I send correspondence to it, it is like I am talking to old Jack the dog at home, but the dog would waggle the tail at least. Uisce \u00c9ireann is unaccountable. Imagine, it is getting billions of euro from the State and does not have to account for it to anybody. I know people who are willing to invest in infrastructure to build local communities. I spent months looking for a meeting with Uisce \u00c9ireann - the local person is willing to put the money into building infrastructure that Uisce \u00c9ireann should be doing but cannot do - but cannot get one. It is not just me. Everybody else comes in here saying the same thing. There is no accountability. The Government seems to be forking out money without accountability. That needs to change. I ask the Minister of State to stand up to Uisce \u00c9ireann. A lot of TDs came in here and showed a lot of concern about Uisce \u00c9ireann, and it came across the road and met us, but it has not met us since. It has not followed up on the queries that we had. That was just fake, a bit of box-ticking to get rid of us again for another couple of years. All Uisce \u00c9ireann needs to do is ask for another billion or million euro. It does not matter. It just ticks a box and it will get it. We need to make changes in here so that there is accountability and we can go back and say that there is somebody willing to pay this out. It happened in my own community down in Durrus. The construction company of a man who is dead now built the wastewater treatment plant there. That town has been thriving fairly well since and able to build houses since. It does not seem to be happening in the rest of the country. Look at the Shannonvales, the Dunmanways, the Rosscarberys, the Ballydehobs and the Goleens. What is happening? For Shannonvale, there is now a promise that something is going to happen. In Dunmanway, a TD told the D\u00e1il six or 12 months ago that 50 houses were going to be built. Now, I have heard that there are only going to be 15 houses. Imagine, 15 houses for the next 20 or 30 years. That is a disaster for a growing town like Dunmanway.  We are not moving with the times. We are way behind. The more rural you are located in this country, the worse things get. The N71 from Rosscarbery to Owenahinch is so dangerous that it is impassable. Regarding the road in Ballydehob, I am continuously raising concerns that might save lives. If there were passing bays, it would bring people into our community in west Cork. We have every right to fight for our constituents. That is why we were put into D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann.  I spoke to young Miche\u00e1l Croke, who is above in the Gallery. He talked to me about the concerns at Cross Barry regarding a footpath there. I stay out in Bray when I am here in Dublin. I saw that a lovely, safe, concrete footpath was built in one its areas, but a beautiful wooden one was also put in just to add to the area. It is lovely. Down in Cross Barry, there is an incredible amount of danger in walking the bridge there, given the number of lorries and other traffic. They need an inside timber bridge, metal bridge or something to save lives, yet nothing happens year after year and promise after promise. Lorries keep striking the wall there and people are within inches of losing their lives, but nobody is accountable and nobody cares. Obviously, something has to happen, then everybody will start running and shouting.  We are talking about speeding up plans in relation to Gaeltacht areas. We have to look at the islands. I represent eight islands. I talk about Cape Clear, Sherkin Island, Long Island, Dursey Island, Bere Island, Whiddy Island and Heir Island. When was the last time a house was built on any of those islands? The Minister of State will not be able to answer because I will tell him: there has been none. They cannot even get planning there, never mind being able to afford to build. When was there a social house built? People have every right to live on their islands. It is the same as those who cannot afford a house being entitled to get social housing. Why cannot the people of those islands at least included in a social housing programme the same as every other community? The living life has been squeezed out of islands. As public representatives, we meet the islanders. They want their young people. They want their schools to survive. Their schools are closing down because people cannot get a home. They have to go back down to the mainland. There is a rush or race to send people away from rural areas.  Planning permission can be very frustrating. Deputy Ward talked about, for example, a person from Donegal objecting to something in west Cork. That is outrageous and has to stop. There is only one way to do so, and that is to put legislation in to make sure that things like that do not happen. People will say to me that they have a right to object, but there is a proper way to do it and an improper way to do it.  It is often pointed out to me how a local person could not get planning but somebody with a lot of money ended up with a house down the road. That is hard for me to explain because I am not on the inside when it comes to planning, but we have to ask questions about how that happened. I am not saying that it happens very often, but it does happen. It is frustrating for the people who have lived all their lives there and are refused when someone they do not know does get planning permission. That happens quite a lot. It is an area of frustration that the Government needs to look into further.  There is a vacant home grant, and it is very welcome. A lot of people have availed of it and I could not fault it, but there is a bit of a concern that money sometimes does not get out to the people fast enough. That is beside the point, though. It is building up in rural areas. One planning matter that the Minister of State needs to look into is where people find a ruin. They think that this great - a ruin in a rural community falling asunder - and this is going to be built. The first thing they will be asked for is to have a conservation repairs document prepared. Then there will be a bat report, an invasive alien plant species report and a nature impact statement report. It is \u20ac20,000 before they put a block in the ground. I recall how, when I was growing up, I built a house at home. It cost me \u00a322,000. It was a six-bed dormer bungalow. Now, people cannot even get a project off the ground for that money. The paperwork has to be finished. There are all these reports. Somebody is making a hell of a lot of money out of this. At the same, when people come into my constituency office - I presume it is the same for the Minister of State - and I look at it, it is a ruin. It is falling down. Would the Government not be delighted to encourage these guys to build and start a new life for themselves? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  I know of a family in Mayo. The mother attended the local primary school in the parish. Her father attended the same local primary school. Her children are now attending the same local school. She sought planning permission to build in the catchment area of that primary school. She was denied on the basis of local planning need. Three generations living in the same area and she was refused planning permission.  That is how discriminatory and unfair the planning system is in Ireland. I very much welcome the fact there have been changes and progress is finally being made on this. It is welcome and I support it. I will absolutely fight to make sure the changes will accommodate as many people to live in rural areas as possible, because it was wrong. For too long, we had a planning system that prevented people living. We have a situation in the planning system where families have to go through report after report for bats and environmental report after environmental report. There is no report done, however, on the council's or Government's side to see whether this family need a house and what the impact is on this family and all of the families across Ireland who want nothing from the State except to be left alone and be allowed to build in their local areas. I welcome the progress and I urge the Minister of State to get on with the implementation of that.  In respect of the auxiliary units, the modular units, this was first spoken about over a year ago in the D\u00e1il and I welcomed that at the time. I am still waiting for the legislation and the guidelines to be published. We talk about delays, and I welcome some aspects of this Bill because the Minister of State is trying to address the delays, but we have been waiting for this to be published for over a year now. We know, broadly speaking, that the units may be 40 sq. m but there is no insight. People are ringing me, families are phoning me and builders are phoning me asking me what is happening and we do not know. There has been delay after delay. This is a crisis and I believe it is time that Deputy Cummins, as the Minister of State who is working in the Department of housing, actually realised it is a crisis.  I want to talk about the Bill in relation to the county development plans and the ten-year timeframe. I understand there is some value to this in terms of processing time and speeding up the timeframes. However, I have concerns and I want to register them here on the floor of the D\u00e1il. I will give an example. A council term lasts for five years and if we are now moving to a situation where county development plans will last for ten years, then obviously that plan should be in line with the new council and the new mandate. If the people of a local area vote out the councillors because they are not happy with the work they are doing or with the development plan, then the new council should have the mandate to change that plan. That is a big concern I have. What is the point in having an election if there will be no impact? The truth is that local government has been downgraded to such an extent that councillors have virtually no power. Now we will see the power they have in terms of development plans being pushed further out and that is a big concern. I ask that changes, flexibility and amendments be allowable. In Mayo, we have a county development plan that was produced in 2022, before I was elected to the council or the D\u00e1il. My understanding is that this plan was supported by all of the councillors in Mayo at the time. It was ratified on 29 June 2022. Now we are stuck with this development plan until 2028. The big problem with this plan is that it classifies huge parts of the east, south and north of the county as being preferred for wind turbine developments. Now the councillors have realised that they no longer support the plan and want to see changes to it. My fear is that if we elongate the duration of county development plans, it will prevent councillors making changes. I urge the Minister of State to ensure councillors have the flexibility and ability to make amendments and so on because that is important. A new council should have the ability and flexibility to change the plan significantly.  In relation to key towns with a population of under 10,000 for the purposes of development, funding and so on, the problem is if there is a ten-year plan and the population grows beyond that. There should be a level of indexing within that plan whereby if the population goes above 10,000, it should still be considered a key town.  I was going to talk about wind turbines as well but my time is up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  The Bill is another piece of omnibus legislation. It tidies up the 2024 Act and is designed to fast-track the judicial review changes, clarify and firm up the ten-year development plan timelines, look at the critical infrastructure and increase the Housing Finance Agency's borrowing capacity. There is a lot contained in the Bill, on one side, but nothing on the other, to be quite honest, because it is primarily enabling legislation, at least in the areas I would like to focus on, namely the critical infrastructure measures and the development plan process.  On paper it is important to facilitate the planning system where development plans, regional strategies and infrastructure delivery can be aligned. I say \"can be\" because while the Bill mentions and strengthens the transition to a ten-year development plan cycle, which I am agnostic about, it sets the deadlines for regional spatial and economic strategies and allows the Minister of State and his colleagues to designate key towns, which I hope will include suburban areas like Lucan, Clondalkin and a joined-up Rathcoole, Saggart and Citywest so that the corridors between them can be planned in a coherent way, unlike the fragmented housing conurbations we see around these historic villages.  However, there is no guarantee that all of these tie-ins will be provided. There is reference to accelerating infrastructure delivery and the Bill streamlines the process and implements recommendations of the accelerating infrastructure task force. We have had references to the size of apartments and how the Bill allows existing apartment permissions to be updated without restarting the entire planning process. If we are putting people into boxes, and I call some of these apartments \"boxes\", we have to have something on the outside. What has happened is we have taken away parking spaces. We have provided insufficient playing pitches, gathering spaces, community halls and leisure facilities. There is no tie-in with public transport.  I have said before that we are potentially creating what will be ghettoes in ten years' time. I say that having spoken to developers who are creating very high-quality housing in terms of the BER rating and the framework they were given. However, the framework is not sufficient, whether it relates to people being able to charge their EVs on their domestic tariff or having parking spaces because sometimes people need to be able to get from A to B in a car even if we are trying to encourage a modal shift by making it more difficult for those short journeys when people should be walking or cycling. In areas like Seven Mills, parts of Adamstown, Citywest and Kilcarbery, we do not have that infrastructure. When this legislation is passed, there will be no guarantees. We need to see a firm commitment to providing that; otherwise, we will be creating bad planning. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy William Aird  I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Bill and support its passage on Second Stage. Ireland faces a housing infrastructure challenge that is well known to every Member of this House. Families are struggling to access affordable housing, communities need vital infrastructure to be delivered and businesses require certainty within our planning system. Good planning must always protect public participation, environmental standards and proper oversight but it also must be capable of making timely and effective decisions. The Bill builds on the reforms already introduced. Its main objective is to ensure those reforms can be implemented smoothly and effectively by removing barriers that have caused delay, uncertainty and unnecessary costs throughout the planning process.  I welcome the measures relating to judicial review procedures. Planning decisions must always be open to challenges where genuine legal issues arise, but we must recognise that lengthy and complex court procedures can delay housing, public infrastructure and investment projects for years and years, as the Minister of State can see himself. I welcome the reforms in the Bill intended to streamline procedures, reduce unnecessary delays and provide greater certainty for all stakeholders.  One of the most important aspects of this legislation is the clarity it provides around transition to ten-year county development plans. Moving to a longer term planning scope is a significant and necessary reform if we are serious about meeting Ireland's future needs. The Bill provides certainty that local authorities will move to this new ten-year cycle. That clarity is essential for local authorities, communities, developers and our infrastructure providers. A ten-year planning framework will help ensure that we maintain an adequate supply of zoned land for housing over a much longer period. Too often we have found ourselves planning for immediate demand instead of anticipating future need. By extending the lifespan of the development plans, the local authorities will be in a better position to zone sufficient land, co-ordinate infrastructure and investment, and create the pipeline of housing delivery that our growing population requires. Long-term housing supply demands long-term planning, and this reform represents a very important step in that direction.  Another welcome measure in this application of the revised Department standards is to the existing planning permissions. This is a practical and sensible reform that has the potential to unlock housing delivery in the short term. By allowing those updated standards to apply to existing permissions, the Bill will improve the viability of a large number of schemes and help turn permissions into homes. I also welcome the increase to the borrowing limit of the Housing Finance Agency. At a time when the delivery of housing remains a national priority, we must ensure that the agency has the capacity to support housing investment. Access to finance is a critical aspect of housing delivery. This measure strengthens the State's ability to support local authorities, approved housing bodies and wider housing initiatives.  Of course, legislation alone will not solve our housing challenges. We must continue to address issues relating to infrastructure provision, the servicing of lands, construction capacity and the availability of skilled workers. However, an efficient and modern planning system is an essential foundation for all other housing measures. It is also important that as the Bill proceeds, we continue to engage constructively with local authorities, planners, communities, environmental groups and the legal profession. Effective planning reform requires public confidence. The public must be sure that transparency, accountability and environmental protections are at the heart of the decision-making. Ultimately, what people want is homes built more quickly, infrastructure delivered more efficiently and decisions made without unnecessary delay. They want certainty, fairness and common sense.  The clarity provided on the transition to ten-year development plans and the measures to improve the viability of apartment developments are practical reforms that will directly support housing delivery. I acknowledge the work the Minister of State and his Department have done on this to try to ease the burden that is on people out there. We are talking about rural development as well as urban development. When we talk about urban development, we must include, or else have it separated, all the villages we have throughout all our counties. I am a firm believer that if we can get the infrastructure into our villages, then people who come from there and want to build in a rural area and who are looking to buy a site there will consider moving to the village. I will give an example from my own area. If somebody wants to build in Camross, perhaps they would prefer to build in the village rather than go 2 miles or 3 miles outside the village, where there might be problems that the Minister of State and I know about as public representatives, and where they might not get the planning. At least they could live in the rural village. If we do not adopt that attitude, and I am thankful this Bill will do that, I will have to come back and stand up here and criticise the Minister of State, which I certainly do not want to do. I believe this is our opportunity to ensure we give viability and oxygen back to all our small villages throughout our counties, for the people who left those villages because they could not get planning.  I do not ever talk myself up as a representative, but I will tell the House one thing here. I have probably been involved in more planning applications in my county of Laois than any other public representative ever. I gave over 40 years in Laois County Council and a lot of my work went into planning issues. It was awful to see that people could not live in an area in which they had gone to school in, been reared, played football and where they were members of the community. They could not live in that area because they could not get planning. I assure all those people here today that this Bill, once enacted, will give them an opportunity.  I will take this opportunity to thank all the people involved in planning, not alone in County Laois but throughout the country. They had a very hard job. They never wanted to refuse planning but they were forced to do so under what we would call the very famous county development plans. I will argue all my life about county development plans. County development plans were supposed to be plans of the public representatives of the county council at the time they were being drawn up. While plans were always presented to us in the county council chambers, however, and while we could put observations in and vote on the plan, which we did several times, a message would come back to the local authority. In respect of what we the public representatives were asking of the chief executive about the plan that he had produced, and which we were not agreeing with, we would be overruled by a Minister. Whose plan was it at the end of the day? I am delighted that I am getting an opportunity to stand in the Houses of the Oireachtas and to repeat what I have said for many years. When we did our county development plan every five years, I would inquire as to which Minister had said we were not to zone the land or that people from a rural area could not live in that rural area, but I could never get a copy of the letter from the Minister who had sent it to the local authorities.  With regard to the county development plans going forward, I ask one thing of the Minister of State. Will he allow the public representatives who are elected throughout this country and who engage in county development plans in their own local authorities to be provided with the same advice that the executive staff can get when they are preparing the plan to present it to the councillors? This is not a big ask. The Minister of State and every public representative who sits in this House will at some stage make representations to their local authority and to their planners. What will the planners say to them in return when they are making that observation on behalf of a constituent who wants to live in a particular area or wants to get planning permission? In my time the planners would hold up the piece of paper and say, \"That's the bible; you drew up the plan.\" This is why I ask the Minister of State to ensure that every possible advice is given to local authorities as well so that they will have a throughput into the make-up of a county development plan.  I will move on to the type and quality of housing that the Minister of State will preside over in the Department of housing. I ask him to please look at the size of the houses being built. I do not have a problem with apartments but I do have a problem with the size as a family grow. At the moment in our local authority, I will make representations, as I have done and always will do, for people who need a one-bedroom house. Again, the officials in the housing section of Laois County Council go on what is presented to them and the plan they have to work off. I will be told that where two people cohabitate or whatever, they would maybe get a two-bedroom house. A person with one child would get a two-bedroom house. As time progresses, however, all these people should be given the opportunity to move up to a three-bedroom or four-bedroom house, or whatever the case may be.  With regard to the housing we are building, I am very concerned about the amount of recreational space that is left available. I ask the Minister of State in his own good time, and maybe he knows it, to go back sometime and look at what happened in the Marian year in this country. The Government of the day took the initiative and thousands of houses were built. I would say that there is not a person in this House who does not have a \"Marian something\" in their area. The Minister of State should look at the quality of the houses. A green area was built around them, and if there was misbehaviour or anything, the lady of the house would knock on the window and say something.  I want to take this opportunity to thank the Minister of State and all his officials who have worked on the new plan. This is oxygen that has been given to people. I thank the Minister of State for the very good job he has done. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy John Cummins)  I thank all of the Deputies for their engagement in the discussion on this Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill. As I stated at the outset, the commencement and implementation of the Planning and Development Act 2024 is a key priority for this Government.  While I appreciate some of the concerns that have been raised about the length of the debate, we are going to conclude this debate ahead of the time that was allocated to it, and I am speaking to a practically empty Chamber. I suspect that this is not lost on most people who might be looking in.  It is my priority as a Minister of State to ensure that we have the timely commencement of the 2024 Act. That is why we need to ensure that the transitionary provisions that are provided for in this Bill are enacted before the summer recess. As I stated at the outset, I certainly hope that all Members will support those endeavours as we take this Bill through the Houses over the next couple of weeks.  I want to address some of the points that have been raised throughout the debate by Members. One area of concern that was raised by a number of Members relates to workforce plans and ensuring that we have sufficient planning staff within our local authority system. It is important to note that under the ministerial action plan on planning resources, 244 planning staff have been approved over the past number of years, including an additional 45 intern positions and another six members of staff for our regional assemblies, and I will continue to support the increased provision of staff within our local authority system and within our planning system overall. However, what I am trying to do as Minister of State is remove red tape from the planning system by introducing the likes of exemptions, and I know that provisions for modular housing were mentioned by one of the Deputies earlier. It is my understanding that these provisions were laid before the House today and will go to the Oireachtas committee on 14 July 2026, and I will sign those provisions shortly thereafter. I know they have been eagerly awaited by many people.  Removing red tape from the planning system will free up resources within our local authority staff, as well as the provision of the eplanning system, through which 80% of all applications are now being made, which is very welcome.  Section 138(a), on apartment standards, was mentioned and many Members spoke about the viability of apartment development. It is important to understand the difference between the construction of regular housing units and apartments. When a developer goes into the ground to develop an apartment complex, they have no out. They cannot release apartments in phases. They all have to be completed before they are ultimately approved, certified and released to the market. The changes and provisions that are provided for within this Bill ensure that we have a viable apartment sector. It is not about profitability. It is about ensuring that we delivery in terms of the apartment space.  In addition to that, we have made available the likes of the cro\u00ed c\u00f3naithe cities scheme. I note that one of the Deputies who raised viability measures also opposes the provision of the cro\u00ed c\u00f3naithe cities scheme, which is specifically intended to provide apartments for sale to individuals and families across our cities.  Parallel consent were raised by a couple of Deputies. It is, of course, the priority of this Government to ensure that we have parallel consenting permissions across Departments. It requires that technical work across all Departments. It is contained within the accelerating infrastructure task force recommendations and we are working on ensuring that they are in place before the end of the year.  A number of Members raised the judicial review process. I do not propose to reopen the discussion on this matter, which was dealt with in the 2024 Act. Many long debates were had at the Oireachtas joint committee, which I was a member of at the time, and in both the D\u00e1il and the Seanad. Importantly, the provisions in this Bill are about providing for decisions made under the 2000 Act post the commencement of this part of the Bill. It is taking what has already been legislated for under the 2024 Act and applying it to decisions that are going to made post the commencement of the provisions within this Bill.  On the move to ten-year development plans and the transitionary provisions provided for within this Bill, I spent 11 years on Waterford City and County Council and I respect and understand the importance of the role of local government. A local democracy task force implementation plan will be coming to Government shortly following the work done by the task force over a period of a year, and I thank its members for the work they put into that. The provisions of the ten-year development plans are important in ensuring that we have sufficient land zoned across this country and to ensure the transitionary provisions provided for are contained within this Bill. It puts a deadline of the end of next year in terms of the regional spatial and economic strategies. That is a hard deadline to ensure that there is alignment for the first batch of local authorities that will be progressing the reviews of their development plans by July of next year.  In terms of the key town provision, and I am sure this is something Deputies will take up on Committee and Report Stages, it is not about creating a two-tier planning system. It is merely about reflecting the number of towns that have populations above 10,000 and are not currently reflected in the regional spatial and economic strategies. They are key growth towns that have the capacity to provide further housing and opportunities, but certainly not at the expense of rural villages and towns. Members mentioned the rural national planning statement, which I published on Tuesday following Cabinet approval, and I thank people for their support in that respect.  Affordable housing was referenced. We have gone from a standing start a couple of years ago to having over 6,000 cost-rental units in the country.  The provisions relating to the Housing Finance Agency and what is provided for in this Bill will ensure the continuation of the funding provision arrangements that are in place. The purpose of the vacant site and RZLT provisions is to ensure that we do not have a double taxation element, and that in repealing one, we have the RZLT in place.  I agree with Members when they say that timely decisions are important. There are statutory timelines for decision-making within the 2024 Act. This Bill will allow the transitionary provisions to be brought forward in order to bring those statutory timelines into force. I acknowledge the significant work that has been done by An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la in reducing the number of cases on hand from over 3,600 to fewer than 1,300 cases last month. That is significant progress. Of course, we need to continue that, and the statutory timeline provisions are important.  I commend the Bill to the House and look forward to the Committee and Report Stage debates next week. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_35","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_35","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case:  Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa - To discuss the ongoing industrial action at Oberstown.  Deputy Tom Brabazon - To discuss consolidation of leases from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine to Howth Yacht Club.  Deputy Ruth Coppinger - To discuss the sudden closure of an English language school in Limerick.  Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss the development of Bunclody Community College, County Wexford.  Deputy Louise O'Reilly - To discuss the need for the provision of bus transport to the Flavours of Fingal show.  The matters raised by Deputies Louise O'Reilly, Tom Brabazon, Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa and Ruth Coppinger have been selected for discussion. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_36","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_37","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Bus Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  Ireland's largest summer festival will take place this weekend at Newbridge House and Farm in Donabate. The Flavours of Fingal is in its 14th year. It has been a hugely successful festival. It is one that I really enjoy going to every year. Many of my neighbours and people from my community also really look forward to it. It is a fantastic opportunity for local vendors such as cheese makers and craftspeople to showcase their wares. It is a big event in their calendar and of huge importance to our local economy, as well as just being a good day out for families and people in general.  Between 65,000 and 75,000 people attend, which makes it one of the biggest summer festivals. Part of the success of Flavours of Fingal has been the shuttle bus service that operates all around the Fingal area. It brings people from Rush, Lusk, Skerries, Balbriggan, Swords and the surrounding areas, and means they can get to and from the festival with ease. I do not expect the Minister of State to be familiar with every aspect of north County Dublin. Donbate is situated on a peninsula, which means one road in and one road out. It is very tight. What we do not want to see is people having a bad experience on their way to the festival. Also, from a sustainability and environmental perspective, I am scratching my head trying to understand why this money was pulled. I would love to know where the money was reallocated to, but more importantly, I really want people to be able to get to Flavours of Fingal easily and to get home easily. I know the vendors and the people who are there to showcase their products want that as well. This is a huge event and a huge day in their calendar. It is a day when people get the chance not just to make money, but also to showcase local talent and local produce.  Thousands of extra cars on the road means extra pollution, as the Minister of State knows, but it also means that people are less likely to get in. It is a real bottleneck. We have had trouble with traffic there, which is part of the reason the shuttle bus service was such a success. It is fine for people who live along the train line. The Minister of State will know there is a train line that runs right through my constituency. They will be grand because they are getting the train anyway. However, the vast majority of people who attend Flavours of Fingal do not live on the train line. As a result, they will find themselves in a situation where they have to travel by other means.  Added to this is the eye-watering cost of parking a car, which is \u20ac40. That is a lot. If someone is bringing a couple of kids, they will want to have a few bob to buy them an ice cream and to fully experience all the delights of the show, but they cannot add \u20ac40 on top of that. It is a real ask for families. We really want the Flavours of Fingal to continue to be the success story that it is, but without the shuttle buses, there is going to be traffic chaos. I do not want our big summer festival getting a name as a place that people do not want to go to because of traffic congestion.  I am not sure what can be done at this late stage. This matter raised previously in the D\u00e1il by my colleague Deputy Ann Graves. The Taoiseach told her, \"I will talk to people to see what can be done there.\u201d He also said, \u201cI will talk to the Minister and see what can be done.\u201d Perhaps the Minister of State has a message from the Taoiseach for us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Deputy Frankie Feighan)  I thank the Deputy for raising this important topic, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Deputy O\u2019Brien. I would like to clarify that the Minister has responsibility for policy and overall funding in relation to public transport, but neither the Minister nor his officials are involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services.  I am familiar with Loughshinny, Donabate, Rush and Portrane. My grandfather was the sergeant at Rush back in the 1940s, and my mother grew up there and went to school in Dublin. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  In that case, the Minister of State will know what I am talking about. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Frankie Feighan  The National Transport Authority, NTA, has statutory responsibility for securing the provision of public transport services nationally, working with the public transport operators that deliver the services and have responsibility for day-to-day operational matters. In this regard, while it is the NTA's priority to provide scheduled public transport services on the Transport for Ireland, TFI, network, it works with event organisers, operators, local authorities and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to provide additional transport supports where possible to do so. Its focus regarding events is providing additional transport to support large-scale events where required and where operators are in a position to provide additional services.  In the context of this specific event, Flavours of Fingal, which is arranged by Fingal County Council in Newbridge House in Donabate for this Saturday and Sunday, 4 and 5 July, the council has provided a private bus shuttle operation each year of this event, which was run by Marathon Coaches to Blanchardstown, Rush, Balbriggan, Swords and the Naul. However, this year, the NTA was informed that Fingal County Council withdrew from providing this bus shuttle service, which is outside the control of the NTA. This was a decision taken by the council, and it was fully removed from the NTA.  The NTA\u2019s priority this weekend will be to cover major events at Croke Park and the Aviva Stadium. If capacity on the rail network allows, Irish Rail will support Flavours of Fingal. The bus operators do not have any capacity to put on additional services to Donabate because they will be servicing other, larger events in the city centre. As the Deputy rightly said, there will be between 65,000 and 75,000 people there, so a shuttle bus would be needed. It has to be noted that all TFl operators, including Irish Rail, Dublin Bus and Go-Ahead Ireland, have just serviced nine concerts in Malahide Castle, which concluded on Tuesday, 30 June, last, in circumstances where they all provided significant additional resources for each of the concerts in the series. The NTA is not in a position to provide any further services at this time due to resource availability.  The NTA has a dedicated team that attends pre-event meetings in order to plan what additional transport can be provided. Co-ordinating transport across events in different local authority areas can be very challenging, especially at this time of year. For example, last week there were large events at the Aviva Stadium, Croke Park, Malahide and Marlay Park, all on the same day, which put constraints on services. Therefore, the challenge facing the NTA and the transport operators is the number of large-scale events being scheduled concurrently. The resources simply are not available to support them all because support for such events requires vehicles, drivers, support staff, site personnel and security teams, all of which have limited availability due to the normal workload associated with the scheduled services.  The Department of Transport requested that the NTA be included as a prescribed body in the draft regulations under the Planning and Development Act. This should assist the NTA in working with local authorities, event organisers and transport operators to ensure a more co-ordinated approach to event licensing and management of transport to and from events.  In addition to the specific transport provided for events, as part of the BusConnect's network redesign, the NTA has introduced 15 24-hour bus services across the city, significantly enhancing late night and early morning travel options. This has allowed more people to avail of public transport services. In addition, there are 12 Nitelink services running from the city centre to suburbs on Friday and Saturday nights, providing extra capacity during late-night demand periods. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I thank the Minister of State for the reply. He will forgive me for saying it is an incredibly disappointing reply. Donabate is in the constituency of the Minister, Deputy O'Brien. I am sure his constituents will be very interested to hear that the NTA has other priorities, including Croke Park, Lansdowne Road stadium and Marlay Park, none of which is in Fingal. I appreciate that the Minister of State is taking this on behalf of the Minister. The Minister told us about Nitelink but he should know that Flavours of Fingal is over long before the Nitelink buses start running. In any event, it would have been of absolutely no use to people going to Donabate for what is one of the biggest events of the summer, attended by between 65,000 and 75,000 people.  My concern is that there will be traffic congestion, in the first instance, and a reduction in numbers. I have had contact from quite a number of people who told me they look forward to going to Flavours of Fingal and they and their kids travel on the shuttle bus because it is convenient and means they do not have to worry about parking. It is disappointing that the attitude of the Minister is that people can pay \u20ac40 for parking and other major events are on, which are more important. I am sure his constituents would like to feel like they were something of a priority for him. They will get that message loud and clear. Will the Minister of State take back to the Minister a request that engagement starts now to ensure there is additional capacity through the NTA, or whoever it is that has to provide it, to ensure that people can get to and from Flavours of Fingal using public transport? Effectively, and contrary to what the Government has told us about its climate action targets, people will be forced into their cars, which is regrettable. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Frankie Feighan  I assure the Deputy that the NTA meets all public transport operators on a regular basis and advises event promoters about what, if any, additional public transport services are available for particular events. Some events are organised without any input or involvement from the NTA. As a result, the authority may not be aware of them until a very late stage. The NTA suggested that there may be a need for more scrutiny of transport availability when licensing such events, in particular when different local authorities licence events to take place concurrently or in close proximity to each other.  The Department has ensured significant collaboration is taking place with the NTA and operators so that sufficient public transport capacity is provided for major events. Again, I am not sure whether the Minister has a huge role in this. His job is to bring the NTA and various stakeholders together. For example, in the last week in respect of public transport we discussed Malahide, the Aviva stadium, Marlay Park and Croke Park. There have been many events in the city and the NTA has said it is difficult to service all of them.  The NTA is cognisant of the increased demand such events bring and is working to establish a co-ordinated framework that balances meeting demand and efficient co-ordination within existing resources. However, decisions by event organisers, such as in the case of Flavours of Fingal, is completely outside the control of the NTA and Department.  There has been huge growth in public transport use in recent years. The Government remains committed to ensuring that public transport continues to be affordable, reliable and an attractive option for all passengers, including those attending concerts and events. I will take the views of the Deputy back to the Minister.  Despite the council briefing elected officials, I have been told they were informed by management that hosting the full-scale Flavours of Fingal represented a significant cost to the council and cancelling the sprawling regional shuttle network was a direct measure to contain mounting festival expenses. It was stated that the events, transport and overall scale were being adjusted to free up funding for events elsewhere in Fingal following a request from other local councillors who wanted the festival budget to be distributed more evenly across the entire county rather than heavily concentrated on a single flagship event. The fight is never what the fight is about. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Bus Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_38","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Harbours and Piers","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_38","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  Howth Yacht Club caters for all types of people. One might think a yacht club is the preserve of the wealthy middle class but the club goes well beyond that and has ambitious plans to become an inclusive club catering for those less able and less fortunate than regular club members. Recently, the EPA granted a licence to dredge the harbour, which is a welcome development and the first time it will have been done since the 1970s. It is a great development for the harbour as a whole. It will necessitate the yacht club replacing its marine infrastructure, which is a very expensive operation. It will cost a large sum and the club will look to the State for grant funding from the large scale infrastructure fund.  Like all funding streams, one of the necessary proofs is having good title to the land that it occupies. The club has five leases from the Department of, Agriculture, Food and the Marine. To tidy up the title, the club hired a specialist solicitor to try to consolidate the leases to simplify the title in order to ease grant applications. The draft lease was sent to the Department in July 2024 and was forwarded to the Office of the Chief State Solicitor in August 2024. This work has still not been completed. We are two years on and the work needs to be finalised without further delay. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Frankie Feighan  I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. The Department owns, operates and maintains six designated State-owned fishery harbour centres, located at Castletownbere, Dingle, Dunmore East, Howth, Killybegs and Ros An Mh\u00edl, under statute. It also has responsibility for Cape Clear, Cleggan and some piers, lights and beacons. Fishery harbour centres are established under the Fishery Harbour Centres Act 1968 as centres in which to promote, develop and carry out sea fishing, including the production and sale of fish and fish products and related activities.  Responsibility for the fishery harbour centres transferred to my Department in October 2007 from the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. Each fishery harbour centre owns land and properties within its respective boundary. Such properties, which are vested in this Department under the 1968 Act, are to be used for such purposes connected with the improvement and development of the fish industry and the provision, improvement and development of services ancillary to, or connected with, the fish industry. Therefore, the harbours contain a diverse property portfolio reflecting their role as working fishery harbours and the locations for a broad range of other marine activities.  There are currently 265 properties in total, excluding pier infrastructure, across six fishery harbour centres, 83 of which are located in Howth Fishery harbour centre. Almost 30% of all properties are used by the Department in the operation of the harbours, providing facilities for net mending, pier service areas, storage for fishing gear and weighbridges, for instance. The remaining properties are occupied by a variety of public and private sector tenants under formal lease agreement and are vital economically and socially to the remote and coastal communities that the fishery harbour centres serves. Some of the properties operate as commercial premises, such as fish processing facilities, restaurants or clubs and, for example yachting, rowing, and scout halls. Other properties reflect more functional aspects of the harbour such as car parking, marina and boat houses.  The Department works closely with the Office of the Chief State Solicitor to progress the often complex and protracted legal aspects relating to property leases. A solicitor is employed by the office at the Department\u2019s request to deal solely with the harbours\u2019 property portfolio, the cost of which is met from the Department\u2019s fishery harbour centre fund. While it is Department policy to not discuss individual leases publicly or with parties other than those immediately involved, I assure the Deputy that the Department and its legal advisers are actively working through the details and the drafting of the lease terms for the tenant concerned.  Due to the complexity of the multiple leases and the level of detail involved, the Department is carefully considering each aspect to ensure the terms are properly reviewed, accurately reflected and reflective of the current advice of the Chief State Solicitor's office. The Department is committed to giving the time necessary to ensure all terms are thoroughly reviewed and correctly addressed. I am informed that the consolidation is progressing steadily, with strong engagement with all stakeholders involved in the process. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  I certainly would not be raising this issue in this public way in the Chamber if the matter were progressing in the manner the Minister of State has described. We have been waiting two years for the resolution of a consolidated lease in circumstances where the club's specialist hired solicitor has, in effect, done the work for the State. He has drafted the lease for the Department. It should take only a matter of hours for a competent solicitor to read through it and either approve it or suggest amendments. I would not be raising this issue on behalf of the club, two years on, if what the Department is claiming was factual. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Frankie Feighan  I thank the Deputy for his measured approach. The process taking two years is reason enough for him to raise this important issue here. It is welcome that the Department maintains an open and proper relationship with the tenant and is always available to provide an update on progress or to address any queries. As recently as 25 June, the Department provided an email update to the tenant on the current progress. This was in addition to in-person meetings at Howth Fishery Harbour Centre on 26 May this year and 27 November 2025.  These matters often move more slowly than the parties would like. It is important to recognise that all due diligence must be completed thoroughly for the safeguarding of all involved. This is a commercially sensitive issue and aspects of it cannot be discussed publicly. The consolidation involves four leases that were taken out at different times, on different terms and with different clauses. As discussed, this is a process that requires significant due diligence. The Department is progressing the matter appropriately. I assure the Deputy that the matter is in hand and there is no risk to the tenant as all leases are well within their term, with the earliest expiration being a few years away. The Deputy has made some very interesting points. I will convey them to the Minister. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Harbours and Piers"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_39","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Industrial Disputes","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_39","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I raise the issue of the industrial action being taken by staff at Oberstown Children Detention Campus. The facility looks after some of our most vulnerable children who have found themselves in a particular set of circumstances. Care is provided by social care workers and supervising officers both day and night. At maximum capacity, the centre can hold 42 boys and four girls. Since Thursday, 25 June, F\u00f3rsa members have been operating a work-to-rule measure after a ballot for industrial action received 91% support.  The easiest way I can explain the circumstances and situations that have led to the industrial action is to refer to statements from F\u00f3rsa. A union official has stated that the proposals put forward by management were \"not grounded in operational reality\" and did not adequately address the ongoing impact of staffing pressures on employees. It is all about safe delivery of services, including ensuring there is capacity and ensuring the safety of the people who work there and the young people detained there. F\u00f3rsa has stated:  Members have repeatedly raised concerns that staffing shortfalls are placing unsustainable pressure on services and increasing risks in a challenging custodial environment for children and staff alike. If it isn't safe for staff, it cannot be safe for the young people in their care.  That really is the crux of the matter. A union official has said: \"Members have previously reported serious incidents at the facility, including assaults on staff and injuries requiring hospital treatment, in circumstances where staffing levels were stretched and operational demands intensified.\" That is the situation with which we are dealing.  I am sure the Minister of State will talk about the State's industrial relations infrastructure and framework. However, the underlying issue at Oberstown arises from the problems with staffing capacity and the safety of those who work there. We have all heard about assaults that have happened previously. Like many others, I have heard from people working in the facility that there are huge issues that were not being addressed. It was no shock whatsoever to me that we got into a set of circumstances whereby we now have industrial action. What frightens me is that the industrial action continues and the issues have not been addressed. We can all talk about going through the correct protocols and procedures but we know there is the possibility of having conversations. If the underlying issues that caused the industrial action were dealt with, we would not be in this set of circumstances.  I have to hand figures for legal fees and associated State Claims Agency payments in recent years. The figure was \u20ac132,806 in 2020, \u20ac901,590 in 2021, \u20ac482,454 in 2022, \u20ac845,645 in 2023, \u20ac826,541 in 2024 and \u20ac861,807 in 2024. That points to the serious issues that need to be addressed. This is not good enough. I hope the Minister of State can provide a helpful answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Frankie Feighan  On behalf of the Minister for children, I thank the Deputy for raising this very important issue and affording her the opportunity to respond. The Minister would like to make clear at the outset that the safety and well-being of the children in the care of Oberstown, and of the staff who support them, is and will remain the highest priority. The Minister notes that Oberstown, as the employer, is engaging directly with staff representatives through the appropriate industrial relations mechanisms, including conciliation under the auspices of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC.  The industrial action is ongoing and has not been stood down but there are efforts to maintain open lines of communication to resolve the matter. Engagement via conciliation at the WRC remains open to the parties. I understand that local engagement is scheduled for this coming Monday in an effort to find a way forward. The Minister respects the rights of workers to take industrial action. At the same time, continued engagement by all parties, including through established dispute resolution mechanisms, is encouraged in order to reach a resolution that is practical, sustainable and centred on safety.  Oberstown is the State's only national facility for the detention of children and, as such, it operates within wider pressures in the youth justice system. Demand for places has increased. In February 2026, the Minister informed the Oireachtas of her intention to increase the capacity for boys in Oberstown by four to 44 during the course of the year. At the end of March, she increased the capacity for boys at Oberstown to 42 from 40, at the same time reducing the capacity for girls from six to four. No decision regarding capacity is taken without a clear understanding of its implications for staffing levels, safety conditions and the overall care environment for the children. The staff and management of Oberstown have handled the change in the certified capacity with the professionalism and care that have become the hallmarks of the facility.  The Department has increased funding to Oberstown in recent years to support service delivery, strengthen operations and enhance the overall care environment for the children. That sustained investment reflects the Government's commitment to ensuring the campus is properly resourced. The Department is working closely with Oberstown management to ensure staffing levels are aligned with operational demands, workforce planning is strengthened and staff are appropriately supported in what is a highly challenging role. The Government provided \u20ac2.176 million in additional funding for Oberstown in 2026 to increase staffing levels, including funding for 11 additional whole-time equivalent staff posts. That includes additional day supervising officers, who are support staff, and assistant unit managers.  In the first six months of 2026, Oberstown has been successful in recruiting the majority of those extra staff despite tight labour-market conditions.  The safety and well-being of staff and young people in Oberstown Children Detention Campus is of the utmost importance to the Minister. The following details demonstrate how Oberstown cares for its staff. Staff in Oberstown are supported with access to an on-site psychologist, peer support workers, employee assistance services and structured after-incident reviews, forming part of a systemic approach to supporting well-being in a challenging workplace. All staff working with young people in Oberstown receive training in suicide prevention, self-harm mitigation and incident management. Oberstown has adopted the ISO 45003 certification on psychological health and safety at work. Furthermore, Oberstown maintains an ISO 45001 health and safety management system on campus. The health and safety officer in Oberstown works closely with all the staff and all incidents on campus are followed up as soon as possible. These measures demonstrate a commitment to ensuring the highest possible standards of staff safety, well-being and professional support. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I ask that the Minister of State go to the Minister, Deputy Foley, and reiterate the point that this issue, first of all, should not have got here. This is abject failure. We all accept that it would be a difficult place to work and there would be very difficult situations. We are talking about children whom a determination has been made to detain. It frightens me when we hear about assaults on staff and insufficient safety for those who work there and the children detained there. This is not working.  The only the only piece of positive news - and that is a bit of a stretch - is the fact that local engagement is scheduled for this coming Monday, in an effort to find a way forward. I ask that maximum effort be put into finding a solution to this and ensuring that we have a safe level of staffing and that we have the correct protocols for dealing with issues where there may be the possibility of violence and that we have the correct protections. We all know that on some level it is a societal failure when we are looking at children being detained in the first place. We all know that we have to put an awful lot more work into those early interventions and help for children and their families that could avoid if not all, then at least some of this. However, we need to ensure that we protect those who are working in what are very difficult circumstances. If they are not safe, it will be impossible for the children in their care to be safe. I have brought up this issue with the children's committee. I requested that there would be a site visit, but beyond that, there are many questions to be answered. We need to ensure we have the correct protocols for dealing with issues of assaults and ensure there are sufficient staff and protection for those working there and that we ensure safety in Oberstown. I ask the Minister of State to bring this back to the Minister. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Frankie Feighan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Frank-Feighan.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Frankie Feighan  The Minister and I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue, which is a priority for the Department and I will bring his concerns back to the Minister. In the medium term, there has been a significant increase of \u20ac5.75 million in capital funding for Oberstown under the National Development Plan 2026-2030. This sustained investment reflects the Government's commitment to ensuring the campus is properly resourced and projects are under way that will alleviate occupancy pressures. However, in terms of the current dispute, the Department remains committed to supporting efforts to resolve the matter as quickly as possible and urges continued engagement through established industrial relations channels.  The safety and well-being of young people and staff at Oberstown remain the overall priority of the Minister and Oberstown management. In the context of the work-to-rule action, the Minister wishes to reassure the Deputy that the management has put in place contingency arrangements which will be monitored closely to ensure that essential services continue and that standards of safety are upheld. Since the certified capacity of Oberstown was amended in March, Department officials and Oberstown's management have been engaging intensively, including holding weekly meetings to monitor progress. The welfare of children in detention is a priority for the Oberstown management, who will ensure that children continue to receive appropriate care, supervision and support. They will also ensure that staff are protected and supported in their roles and that the campus always operates within safe parameters. I will end by wishing the parties well ahead of their engagement on Monday. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Industrial Disputes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_40","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Language Schools","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_36","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  Student Campus college in Limerick suddenly closed last week, leaving hundreds of international students and staff in limbo. I was contacted by people in Limerick to raise this issue. Approximately 250 students were already studying in the school, with reports that over 300 additional students had paid fees before travelling to Ireland. Students were left with uncertainty regarding their education, tuition fees and immigration status. Student Campus college on the interim list of eligible programmes, ILEP, approved providers list. This list is provided by the Minister for justice for approved programmes. The school stated it had learner protection through an academy-plus arrangement with the trade organisation Progressive College Network. This is a type of insurance that if the school fails to offer courses, alternative arrangements will be made. There have been reports indicating that a plan is under way for the school to reopen under new ownership or management, with the aim of allowing students to finish the courses they have paid for. I do not know if the Minister of State has clarity on this. The school lost its PON status in June and no learner protection has been issued since May. It is unclear, going forward, how that will operate under new ownership. It is simply being stated that there is an emergency fund that existed from previous owners and a reliance on insurers doing the right thing.  Teaching staff have reportedly been offered their positions back if they teach under the temporary arrangements. Already, there are unpaid wages owed to teachers since the closure and there is a distrust from teachers about this school, with teachers saying they do not trust the organisation. There is still no clarity on the reopening date either, and whether all students will be accommodated or what options will exist for students seeking refunds and transfers.  There are broader issues here. Oversight of English language schools has been an issue for a long time, particularly regarding the adequacy of the learner protection arrangements and the safeguards for international students. These types of schools are invariably privately owned, with a lack of regulation in the sector. In May, 250 students in Monaghan were still asking for refunds from one of those schools after their reapplications for visas were rejected. What immediate steps is the Government taking to protect the students affected by the closure in Limerick? How exactly will the Government improve the English language school sector to ensure that international students are protected? The issue is not about this being a back door, which the Minister made a statement about recently. The implication was that some use the language schools to get visas. It is about ensuring that international students can be protected. God knows, many of their families will have scrimped and saved for them to come here to learn English and improve their lives.  What about the staff working in these schools? I know Unite The Union was making attempts to unionise staff following on from a previous closure. I would certainly encourage all workers to get involved in a union so that they have protection. What is the Government doing to stop this uncertainty for students and staff happening in the future? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Catherine Ardagh)  I thank the Deputy for her question. The students, prospective students and teachers are in a very difficult situation. What is really important now is that we have a clear information stream going to the students so they know what is going on. The Department is aware of the current issues regarding Student Campus college in Limerick. Officials in my Department and the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science are monitoring the ongoing and evolving situation. They will provide information in relation to the status of any affected students' immigration permissions in due course.  I can advise the Deputy that in order for a non-EEA national student to register for a stamp 2 immigration permission, they must enrol in and commence a course of study from the interim list of eligible programmes. Education providers such as Student Campus college are required to have met certain standards and requirements to have their programmes included on the ILEP and be accredited by recognised Irish awarding bodies. All providers must remain in compliance with the relevant criteria to retain a listing on the ILEP. Instances of non-compliance may, and have, resulted in the removal of schools from the ILEP.  When a provider is listed on the ILEP, they are required to notify my Department of matters such as, but not limited to, any changes to the ownership of the school, any change in locations or additional centres, changes to their academic management or teachers, and student capacity numbers. It should be noted that the relationship between a student or agent and any education provider is private and contractual. My Department has no function in relation to disputes between students, agents and their education providers in seeking refunds, course transfers or other rebates. Having said that, I understand that the Department of further education is very much aware of the situation and I note from the Deputy's contribution that the standard of English-language courses and our reputation as a provider of such courses is of concern.  Additionally, I can inform the Deputy that the ILEP is being superseded by TrustEd Ireland, the international education mark launched in September 2024 by Quality and Qualifications Ireland and our colleagues in the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. TrustEd Ireland is a new statutory quality mark and part of a suite of legislative measures designed to further protect international learners. Once the ILEP is discontinued, only education providers granted authorisation to use the TrustEd Ireland mark will be eligible to recruit students from outside the EEA to English-language programmes, foundation programmes and higher education programmes leading to awards within the national framework of qualifications. The new mark will be awarded to higher education and English-language education providers that have demonstrated that they meet national standards. This will ensure a quality experience for international learners from pre-enrolment through to the completion of their programme of education and training. Applications are currently being reviewed for the first application cycle and we expect decisions to issue in the coming months. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  Maybe it is time that the State get involved in this rather than leaving it to any private individual or private company to set up a language school, take money off desperate people who want to come here and learn English, and then just go away with that money. The Minister of State has said there is no function for the Department here. I only got this answer handed to me as the Minister of State started reading it. It really would be helpful if we could get these replies in advance.  People were happy to take fees from international students and the moneys international students bring here, which is a significant amount. They pay rent and so on. However, there does not seem to be any checks of whether these schools have reserves of funds - for example, to pay staff wages - or whether there is something like a sinking fund. Are there no checks and balances that can be done?  This is not the first time. Student Campus college is not a new offender. There was a report that an Algerian man is owed \u20ac2,137, has been waiting 14 months and still has not gotten it back. What does the Minister of State's Department do when complaints like that are made? The school is allowed to continue to operate and advertise itself as a provider. As the Minister just said, Ireland has this great reputation for English-language tuition.  There seems to be light-touch regulation again and again by this Government. The way the system is structured is leading to this as well because we know people have to register at a school and then apply for the visa. There is an incentive there. I am not saying this is the case with Student Campus college, by the way, to quickly clarify that. However, people who are not honest brokers could set up a business, get money from people and then exploit them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  I note the Deputy's points. We cannot allow profiteering on foot of students whose families have made huge sacrifices to send them to Ireland to learn English. The new TrustEd Ireland quality mark will hopefully provide a better regulated environment for providers so that when people are coming to Ireland they will be able to come here with the assurance that their college will be well accredited and from that will flow the stamp 2 visas in the correct format.  Obviously, my Department has responsibility for immigration matters solely. Any sort of contractual disputes in relation to providers would have to be dealt with in a different forum. I fully appreciate that any students affected are seeking certainty at what is undoubtedly, especially for students already in Ireland, a very difficult time. I assure the Deputy that my Department is continuing to monitor the situation closely.  As I have outlined, all education providers with programmes listed on the ILEP are required to have learner protection insurance arrangements in place as part of their criteria for inclusion on the list. These arrangements are intended to provide protections for learners where a provider is unable to deliver a programme as planned.  More broadly, the transition from ILEP to TrustEd Ireland represents a significant strengthening of the quality framework for international education in Ireland. As this new framework is implemented over the coming months, it will further strengthen confidence in Ireland's international education sector while ensuring that students can continue to choose Ireland knowing that appropriate quality assurance and learner protection measures are in place. I thank the Deputy again for raising this matter today. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Language Schools"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-02\/debate\/dbsect_41","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2020\/26","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2020\/26\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Hare Coursing) Bill 2020: Second Stage [Private Members] (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Hare Coursing) Bill 2020: Second Stage [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":39,"speakerCount":10},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_41","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\"  It is an honour to finally be moving this at Second Stage after the Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Hare Coursing) Bill was first introduced in 2020. It has been a long road getting to this point. This section of the road will finish next Wednesday with a vote. I will start and finish with an appeal to the public to get on to their TDs and demand they reflect the big majority opinion in this country that we should take this opportunity to ban hare coursing.  This road has been going on for a very long time. This is the third Private Members' Bill to attempt to ban the barbaric practice of hare coursing. Tony Gregory tried over 30 years ago. Maureen O'Sullivan introduced her Bill in 2015 at First Stage and it was voted on at Second Stage in 2016. Now, here we are again, ten years later in 2026 as one of only three European countries that still allow this annual torture of the hare to continue.  In the last 15 years, more than 65,000 Irish hares have been captured from the wild and forced to participate in barbarism all because a relatively small number of people enjoy watching animals being absolutely terrorised and some want to make money through gambling on this torture. The Irish hare is a unique subspecies of mountain hare found only on the island of Ireland. We do not have many unique animals but the hare is one of them. Its cultural status was cemented for many decades on the old Irish three pence coin. It is iconic across Irish folklore where hares were often seen as spirits of the dead, leading to a taboo against eating them. We could do with renewing and broadening that ancient taboo by banning hare coursing too.  We would not be here at this step of the road, debating this today, without the tireless and Trojan work of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports, the National Animal Rights Association and the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Some of their tireless activists are in the Visitors Gallery today. Countless dedicated individual activists have stuck with this day in, day out over many years. They are the best of humanity. They know what empathy is. Those who support this cruelty do not.  In the last while we have seen Elon Musk, JD Vance, and other leading figures on the US far right denouncing empathy and declaring war on empathy. Musk has claimed that \"the fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy\" and suggested that there is an \"empathy exploit\". Others are going so far as to talk about the sin of empathy. The vast majority of ordinary people will rightly think that this is bananas, and that we have plenty of empathy because empathy is a fundamental part of what makes us human.  It allows us to feel solidarity with other human beings, including people we do not know, who we have never met or do not look like us, and to empathise with animals, like the Irish hare. Empathy is our natural reaction when we see videos of greyhounds ten times the size and weight of hares smashing into terrified hares, throwing them up into the air, pinning them to the ground and hurting them. Instinctively, we feel for the hare. All of the waffle we have heard in the debates in the media and that we will presumably here today from the Government benches about rural pursuits is to try to cover up and suppress that instinctive human response. The Government and Sinn F\u00e9in TDs know that in their heart of hearts too. I know many of them would vote to ban this barbaric practice if they were not being whipped into voting for it to continue.  We saw with Sinn F\u00e9in a few months ago on the issue of fox hunting that TDs were whipped to vote against a ban and then shortly afterwards, thankfully, the Sinn F\u00e9in Ard-Fheis voted in favour of a ban. I suspect the same breakdown of a vote at a Sinn F\u00e9in Ard-Fheis would happen now in a ban on hare coursing. Sinn F\u00e9in members would vote in support of a ban on hare coursing. There are very few people who would support fox hunting and oppose hare coursing or vice versa . If that is the position, and we will see what the position is, that is not a position that would please anybody. Sinn F\u00e9in needs to stand up and make the right decision, which is to ban hare coursing here, just as it is already banned in the North. There should be no more partitionism on this. Hare coursing in this country is a legacy of British colonialism introduced here by the British Army.  To all those TDs who privately support a ban on hare coursing but will troop through the voting lobbies or, more likely, press the buttons at the seats to vote against a ban, all they really have is the coward's defence. They are just following orders. I hope that, at the very least, they will try to persuade their party leaderships that these orders go against public opinion and that a free vote should be granted. The public out there is overwhelmingly opposed to hare coursing in both rural and urban areas. There is not an urban-rural divide on this issue despite the attempts to turn it into some sort of culture war issue. In fact, the Red C opinion poll on hare coursing, which found that 77% of people were opposed to hare coursing, actually showed a slightly higher percentage of people in rural areas opposed to it than those urban areas. It was some 78% in rural compared with 76% in urban. Support for a ban in Munster, the supposed stronghold of hare coursing, was 77%, compared with 76% in Dublin.  The Minister of State should not come out and tell me that rural people are the only ones who know about coursing and that they want it to continue, when the evidence suggests that, yes, they do know about it but precisely because of that, they want it to be stopped, because they have been more personally exposed and know the realities of the horrors of this so-called sport. The truth is, the vast majority of Irish people want hare coursing banned. Only 9% in the Red C opinion poll opposed a ban, or fewer than one in ten people. It has been banned in the North for over 20 years, since 2003, on conservation grounds as well as the appalling cruelty. The Assembly then voted to make the ban permanent in 2010. The National Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, NSPCA, supports a ban. The Irish Wildlife Trust supports a ban. The NSPCA is the foremost authority on animal welfare in this country and it should be listened to by the Government.  The supporters of hare coursing may prove to be a majority in this House but they are a tiny minority of the population. It speaks to how out of touch this place is with public opinion. What is happening here is the same thing that has happened with fox hunting. A well-connected minority that wants bloodsports to continue, that enjoys making animals suffer and making money out of it, is the tail that is wagging the dog and the result is all sorts of spurious arguments that we will hear. One of those is that because coursing has gone on for a long time, it is somehow all right. The same was true of badger baiting, wild animals in circuses and fur farming, all of which have been rightly banned in this country. We do not have to accept a lazy appeal to tradition for one minute.  It is worth noting, again from that Red C poll from 2019, that over 85% of over-65s supported a ban, higher than the average support for a ban of 75%. Any notion of a generational divide rooted in tradition is complete nonsense. Just because this cruelty has gone on for a long time does not make it right. In fact, it makes it all the more outrageous because it means the scale of the suffering caused to these beautiful animals over decades is truly enormous.  Another baseless claim put out by the Irish Coursing Club and its supporters is that coursing areas have significantly higher hare populations than other areas and that this means, somehow, that coursing protects hares. The mechanism through which this causative link happens is not really explained but, somehow, capturing a load of hares from the wild, putting them into captivity and terrorising them is apparently good for hare conservation. The origin of this claim is a tiny sample of 135 hares taken in a small area of east Donegal way back in 2003, which was then compared with a sample of hares in another part of the country four years later in 2007, and then extrapolated to the whole country to say that hares are 18 times more common in coursing areas than non-coursing areas. To be blunt, this is junk science.  Coursing advocates also claim that coursing does not really hurt because the greyhounds now wear muzzles. This is also fake news. First, there is the stress of being hunted with nets, captured and put into crates and held in captivity for months. Unlike rabbits, hares are solitary animals, so being kept in confinement with multiple other hares is extremely stressful and unnatural for them. During those months, they are trained, which causes them more stress and terror. Then, you have the coursing meeting itself. Two dogs race to see which is the fastest to turn, pin or catch the hare, within which more than 4% of hares are killed. Many more are seriously injured. If they survive all of that, they are much more likely to die after being released back into the wild than hares that have not been coursed.  A study funded by the National Parks and Wildlife Service, although used by the supporters of hare coursing, followed up coursed and uncoursed hares. The bottom-line finding was that after six months, it could find only one out of 20 coursed hares alive, compared with eight out of 20 uncoursed hares. Even if you are one of those rare psychopaths like Elon Musk, who is devoid of human empathy and does not care about the suffering of other living creatures, it is possible, although perhaps unlikely, that you might still care about biodiversity and the survival of the ecosystems upon which we all depend to survive. That is unless you are Elon Musk and you are planning to head off to Mars.  For anyone concerned about biodiversity, the impact of coursing on the Irish hare population----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  Deputy, can you refrain from describing people as psychopaths, le do thoil? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Even Elon Musk? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  Even Elon Musk. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I cannot call Elon Musk a psychopath. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  You can keep saying it over and over again but I have asked you not to. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  If you cannot say that, what can you say? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  I have asked you to keep in line with the Standing Orders. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Thank you. I will keep going. For anyone concerned about biodiversity, the impact of coursing on the Irish hare population should be a major concern. A National Parks and Wildlife Service study indicates an eight times lower survival rate for hares after they are released from coursing. That is a significant additional stressor on wild hare populations, which are already in decline, along with most of our other native species. Those involved in the practice of coursing and capturing the hares each year know that. Every year, they are capturing fewer and fewer hares to be terrorised. When I first introduced this Bill, I was talking about over 5,000 captured per year. Now it is over 3,000 captured per year.  One report of a coursing meeting in Roseberry, County Kildare, in December 2024 said that only two hares ran, with hare stocks low that year. Data from the Irish Coursing Club show this steep decline in the number of captured hares. Ten years ago, 5,348 hares were caught, compared with 3,124 in 2025 and 2026, a fall of 41%. Coursing was first halted in the North in 2002 because of evidence that hare populations there had declined by 25%, yet here in the South, it is allowed to continue seemingly no matter what.  Of course, there are lots of reasons hare numbers are falling. The intensification and industrialisation of agriculture has increased the use of heavy machinery that can kill and injure hares. There are also much greater numbers of dairy cattle in particular and a reduction in the natural variety of grasses for hares to eat, due to the limited varieties of grasses being sown to increase milk yields. On top of that, rabbit haemorrhagic disease, RHD, has ravaged rabbit and hare populations across Europe, with a new, more deadly strain, rabbit haemorrhagic disease variant two, RHD2, first detected in England and Wales in 2014.  One would think that all of that might have prompted at least a temporary ban to protect this supposedly protected species. That is one of the ironic things about this - the law says that hares are a protected species but, in turn, it goes on to say that people can get a licence to capture and chase after them with big dogs. Of course, the gambling, coursing and greyhound industries took precedence. They will be the final nail in the coffin for many hares.  I have heard today for the first time the claim that the industry is worth \u20ac70 million annually to the Irish economy. I am intrigued about that. This may come up in the debate, but I will ask it in advance. Where does that figure come from? I looked online but could not find any source for it. The greyhound industry is usually said to be worth \u20ac120 million, and there is creative accounting happening with that figure, too. I do not understand where this figure of \u20ac70 million comes from or what study is being referred to. I suspect there is more creative accountancy that takes no account of the damage caused to families and communities by the scourge of gambling and gambling addiction.  I point out that the Bill is explicit in allowing lure coursing, which is where there is a mechanical hare, as happens in Australia.  I will finish with two points. The first is an appeal to Members of this House to put pressure on their parties to fight for a free vote and, in any case, to vote with their conscience. They should not vote to allow this cruel practice to continue. Second, I appeal to those outside of this House, namely, the ordinary, decent people, both rural and urban, who oppose this practice. The vote will be next Wednesday. We have time to build more pressure on TDs and parties to take this opportunity to stop hare coursing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Niall Collins)  I convey the apologies of the Minister, Deputy Heydon, who is unable to attend. I am taking the debate on behalf of the Government.  I wish to clearly state at the outset that the area of animal welfare is of the utmost importance to me, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the Government as a whole. Our Department devotes considerable resources to protecting the well-being of animals and dealing with breaches of animal welfare legislation. The Government remains fully committed to promoting good practices that respect the welfare of all animals.  The Government fully recognises the strong views on both sides of this debate and policy area, which have been the subject of extensive debate over the years. On behalf of the Government, I am opposing the Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Hare Coursing) Bill 2020. I will now outline the reasons. During the passage of the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013, a detailed debate was held in this House on the issue of hare coursing. The D\u00e1il voted overwhelmingly to allow the continuation of hare coursing in accordance with certain rules. The 2013 Act in particular states that the hare can only be coursed in a space from which it has a reasonable chance of escape. If a hare is chased in a space where it has no reasonable chance of escape, it violates section 12 of the Act and constitutes a criminal animal cruelty offence. Where a specific case of animal neglect or cruelty is identified, offences may be prosecuted under the 2013 Act. When the Act was enacted, it significantly increased the penalties. On summary conviction, this may include a class A fine of up to \u20ac5,000 and, in some instances, a class A fine and-or up to six months' imprisonment. On indictment, it may include a fine of up \u20ac250,000 and or imprisonment up to five years.  I will now turn to the existing legislative and regulatory framework. Regulated muzzled coursing, operated chiefly by the Irish Coursing Club, exists under a significant and overlapping statutory framework that includes: the Wildlife Acts 1976 to 2018, the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013, the Wildlife (Wild Mammals) (Open Seasons) Order 2005, the Greyhound Industry Act 1958, and Irish Coursing Club rules, directives and guidance notes. Coursing licences carry 44 separate conditions overseen by the National Parks and Wildlife Service. Coursing meetings are supervised by the National Parks and Wildlife Service to ensure compliance with the 44 conditions associated with section 32 and 34 licenses issued by the Minister of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Browne. A panel of pre-coursing inspectors, selected for hare expertise, inspects every club in advance of a meeting and issues a certificate to course only where standards are met, with hares examined by a veterinary surgeon before, during and after every meeting. A monitoring committee on coursing is in place, comprising officials from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the Irish Coursing Club and the National Parks and Wildlife Service, to monitor developments in coursing. In that regard, the situation is kept under constant review to ensure that coursing is run in a controlled manner.  Hares are legally protected under the Wildlife Act. Catching and tagging of a hare requires strict adherence to conditions. It is illegal to catch and tag hares outside of the licensed coursing and tagging season. Additionally, hares cannot be caught using unapproved nets or within restricted areas. No hare must be coursed more than once on the day. Hares that appear sick, injured or pregnant while in captivity may not be coursed.  With regard to the scientific evidence, a 2023 study commissioned by the National Parks and Wildlife Service on survival, movements, home ranges and dispersal of hares after coursing found no significant difference in observed mortality, movement patterns, home range sizes or dispersal distances between coursed and uncoursed hares released back into the wild. A separate population study found 18 times more hares in areas managed by coursing clubs than in the wider countryside, which is direct evidence that coursing clubs' habitat management has a measurably positive effect on hare populations. The current hare casualty rate at coursing meetings is below 0.5%, down from 15.8% prior to the introduction of muzzling in 1993. In the 2025-26 season, 99.38% of the 3,020 hares netted were released back into the countryside. The Irish hare is currently assessed by the International Union for Conservation of Nature, IUCN, as being \u201cof least concern\u201d. The most recent EU habitats directive report in 2019 found the conservation status of the species to be favourable and stable, comparing favourably with the majority of the other 68 protected species assessed.  I will comment on the economic and social contribution to rural Ireland. In 2022, an independent economic analysis estimated that coursing contributed approximately \u20ac70.7 million annually to the Irish economy, the vast majority of which directly benefited rural communities, with \u20ac37.9 million attributable to the life cycle of the coursing greyhound itself. The sector receives no State funding and is entirely self-resourced through club fundraising, membership and voluntary effort.  Coursing provides a strong social function for rural communities, particularly for older members during winter months. A ban would remove this voluntary activity and community infrastructure without replacing it. Regulated coursing under the Irish Coursing Club has continued for over 100 years, with individual rural coursing clubs operating across generations and membership often passed down through families and communities for well over a century. Coursing provides a structured introduction to animal care and responsibility for young people. Training a coursing greyhound and looking after hares exposes young people to the practical realities of animal husbandry on a consistent and daily basis.  We are opposing the Bill. We do not do government by referendum or opinion poll findings, as quoted by Deputy Murphy. We take a structured and regulated approach to this and other issues. While it is a minority pursuit, it does not mean it cannot continue. Under this Government, it will continue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  I thank the Minister of State. I call Deputy Aird. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy William Aird  I have listened with interest to the debate. I hear exactly what is being said but I stand here as a person who has a great interest in the hare. The hare has been a part of our heritage since long back, as both speakers said. The hare was on the old threepence coin. It can be seen in many pictures in many places throughout the island of Ireland. As a person who farms and likes land, and loves all kinds of animals in the wild, what I have observed with the hare is illegal hunting by people who have no concern for its preservation and are using new devices. A debate like today\u2019s is one-sided against people - the only ones out there besides conscientious people - and I take umbrage when farmers are mentioned as sowing grass seed which is affecting the hare population. That is totally untrue. The eating of grass does not affect the hare and I can be a witness to that; I have seen it. With my leisurely pursuits whenever I get the time I love to be in the countryside. We fail to mention the natural habitats which are there for the hare, such as bogs where hares really thrive.  Many is the time I stood to watch the hare. It is a beautiful animal to see running. There is nothing I see with the hare more than the pleasure of a hare when it sees a dog when people are out walking. If the dog pursues it, any owner who is ever in the countryside will see it has a natural route out of its habitat and what it will do is take the animal pursuing it - it does not have to be a dog, it could be a fox \u2013 around the place and exhaust it. The hare goes out to its natural footpath and then it will stand up on its hind legs and look back, as if to say \u201cI have you finished\", and off it will go. The animal pursuing it could be lying flat on the ground exhausted. I have seen that numerous times. The Deputy is laughing but I would like to know how many times he has been in the rural parts of Ireland - his rural pursuits - watching this.  If it was not for the people looking after the hares there would be far fewer of them because of the illegal netting going on. They illegally pursue with specially-bred dogs which have speed and follow hares, sometimes under the cover of darkness. I have seen it. I have witnessed it. These are not people who look after the hare, who go out and make sure when nobody else is interested that illegal hunting is not taking place and report it to the garda\u00ed when they do see it. Only recently there was a big article in the paper stating that fines are only \u20ac250. What deterrent is that for anybody who is going out intentionally to kill a beautiful animal like a hare?  I would like the people putting this Bill forward to look at this issue. There is a preserved bird called the buzzard. I personally have nothing against the buzzard. It is lovely. For people who might not know it, it spreads its wings and you can hear it calling. However, I have witnessed on at least ten occasions the buzzard dropping down and picking up a little leveret, which is a young, small hare. It is able to catch it with its eyesight. No-one else could. A person could be walking beside a leveret and it will not move but the buzzard is able to catch it. It will swoop to the ground. I have seen it, it is awful. It picks the little leveret up, goes up like a rocket, and drops it. When the leveret goes down it is either stunned or dead. This happens in a couple of seconds. The buzzard picks it up and it is gone. I do not want to see that but I have seen it a few times. I would like those involved - and they do great work, those who list birds and animals which cannot be hunted so they do not become extinct \u2013 to look at the buzzard. While we want to preserve it and I want to preserve it - I do not know enough about the buzzard - it is wreaking havoc in the countryside on the small, young hare. That is all I can say.  I have no problem saying I acknowledge the work those clubs do in preserving and watching the hare. They are watching because they know they are looking at an animal that is in this country for as long as we have existed. There are fewer of them, but why? I would like an answer. We can see that less than 1% is due to what is happening in the debate being presented here today. I ask somebody to please look into the overall picture and find out the real reason our hare population is going down. I acknowledge that is happening and I support all the studies which go into it. We find ourselves seeing fewer and fewer of the curlew, corncrake, and all of the other birds which at one time we saw frequently. We come along and ask if it is because we are building houses in rural areas. I saw a debate one night about that. It has nothing to do with that. We need to go back and see what the root problem is when animals like that go extinct. If we are going to have a debate we should not have one where the issue is being blamed on one particular set of people who, in my opinion, are looking after the hare. We should look at the wider picture and then come back to a debate when there is proof. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Kenny  I thank Deputy Murphy for bringing this Bill forward. It is important that we have a debate on these issues. It is an issue that needs further scrutiny and we need to look into it, but from a Sinn F\u00e9in perspective, we will not be supporting the proposal. While we recognise that there are of course always issues when it comes to sports of this nature where there can be abuse and animals can be the victims of cruelty and we need to ensure that does not happen, hare coursing is highly regulated. We recognise that as well. Those regulations are well-adhered to and people look after the animals very well.  On keeping greyhounds, people mentioned it is not an urban-rural issue, and it certainly is not. There are many people in urban Ireland who keep greyhounds and have a huge interest in this area as well, but this is specifically about the coursing of the hare. I hear stories of hare coursing in my community going back many years where people have had an interest in this particular pursuit or whatever people want to call it. I do not particularly have an interest in it but there are many who do and are very aware that one has to be very careful to ensure the animal is not hurt on either side, whether it be the greyhounds or other dogs involved, or the hare.  We also recognise - this is a big part of it for me - that when we ban something like this or have a situation where we try and stamp it out completely, it goes underground and would continue in a way that was not regulated with no vets involved and no assurance that there would be any sense of making provisions so that cruelty could not happen. Hares, when caught, might not be treated and released properly. These things would not come under regulation. That is one of the fears I have. In other jurisdictions where there are bans in place, there are huge problems with underground and illegal hunting and coursing. That is a big issue we also need to bear in mind.  That said, the Minister of State mentioned it was 2013 when there was previously a substantive debate on this issue. It is time for the Minister and the Department to look at having a commission to look at this issue and examine how effective these regulations are, how well they are working, and whether there are issues which need to be dealt with, if improvements can be made, and if so, whether recommendations can be made.  In the context of the debate we are having here, while I absolutely understand where this particular Bill is coming from, it is not appropriate at this point to do that without having a proper examination of the situation. The big danger is that if we ban something, we will drive it underground and make the situation far worse, both for the animals concerned, namely, the hares, but also for the greyhound industry as well. That would be a detrimental thing to happen. From that perspective we will not be supporting the Bill but we will encourage the Minister to consider putting a commission in place to examine it and have the relevant expertise in place to ensure that we can perhaps make changes to the regulations if necessary. I do not know whether they are necessary or not.  I take on board that the issues that have been brought forward by Deputy Murphy and others need to be listened to. If there are people out there who have strong voices and opinions in this regard, we need to listen to them. I am sure also that on the other side of it we will have people who are engaged in these particular activities who will have equally strong views as to how well the regulations are working. It is probably time that we looked at having some kind of proper independent examination of how this is working, or not working, as the case may be. If changes or some level of improved regulations need to be put in place they should be considered. A ban is not the way forward to deal with this situation.  In many of these situations, these things fade away in many areas. In some rural areas they were a big pursuit 30 years or 40 years ago and they are not any more. They still are in some areas of the country and in those areas we need to examine it and ensure that we have adequate regulations in place and that they are adhered to and properly enforced. We all have a responsibility to ensure that animal cruelty does not happen. At the same time, we also have a responsibility to ensure that we do not create situations that make animal cruelty worse. Bringing in a blanket ban of that nature could give rise to such a danger. That is why I would encourage the Minister of State to consider speaking to the senior Minister in respect of it, and that we would look at having a commission in place to examine this and to report back and to see if recommendations are required. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Some 77% of Irish people favour a ban on hare coursing. The reason they want to see a ban on hare coursing is, simply put, that it is cruel. It is completely unnatural to pull a wild animal from their environment, to cage it for weeks and put it out in front of a greyhound and essentially let it run for its life. To do that and to call it a sport is probably one of the things that I have most difficulty with. We need to have a conversation about it. I have been listening to the debate. We need to have a conversation about natural, ecological processes in this House versus human intervention and using wild animals and being cruel to them for entertainment. The reason we have buzzards hunting hares is because they are meant to. They are part of the system. They are part of the food web. The buzzard plays an equally important role in that food web as the hare plays. We do not want, if at all possible, to interrupt that process. What is not part of the natural ecological process is for humans to go out and pluck these hares, which are solitary beings, and to cage them with a number of other hares in a completely unnatural environment and then to stress them by getting them chased by dogs and have them fear for their lives.  Earlier on it sounded like Government TDs were saying that the hare actually enjoys this; this is what they were built for; they love it; they really enjoy going out onto the course and trying to avoid the dog. That is just a ridiculous concept. Of course they do not enjoy being chased and fearing that they are going to be eaten. In this House we need to really start thinking about what should happen naturally and what should not happen; what we accept as a country and what we are going to stand up and say we do not accept. We do not accept a situation where, for the entertainment of a very small minority of the population, we are going to allow this cruel activity to happen. It is unnatural and it is unnecessary. The sport can continue if we put in an alternative, such as the lure. If people want the greyhound industry to keep operating and people to be able to go down and enjoy seeing greyhounds chase something, let it chase the lure. Why does it need to be a live animal? How can anyone possibly get pleasure or entertainment from that?  I had a quick look at the Facebook page of the Minister of State, Deputy Collins. I really appreciate that he was sharing posts about protecting our dogs in this heat and making sure they have enough water. Would he be happy if his family puppy or cat were being chased around by greyhounds so that other people could bet on them? These are living creatures. The Minister of State is laughing at me now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niall Collins  I am not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  That is ultimately what it is about. As Deputy Paul Murphy said earlier----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niall Collins  That is a nonsense comparison. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Why is it a nonsense comparison? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  Just stay quiet and listen. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Why is it a nonsense comparison? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  The Minister of State should allow the speaker to continue. There is no space for back and forth here. He should please allow the speaker to continue without interruption. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niall Collins  Through the Chair, it is a nonsense comparison. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  This is what it comes down to - it comes down to empathy, as Deputy Murphy said earlier. It comes down to whether we can look at a wild creature and feel that we should not torture it or inflict any level of pain or stress where we can avoid it. I am not talking about hunting for food purposes or any of that. I am talking about hunting for sport. For creatures like the hare, I just do not understand how anyone can be happy that their entertainment is worth more than putting a creature like that through a level of pain. I do not think it is a ridiculous argument to compare it to a domestic animal. I really do not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niall Collins  Well I do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I know the Minister of State does. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  The Deputy should be allowed to speak without interruption. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  What it all comes down to is a level of empathy and what we consider to be acceptable in society and what we do not.  I also want to respond to the argument about driving it underground if we do not allow it to continue. It is incredible, but in no other circumstances do we hear the argument that something is wrong but we are going to allow it to continue because if we do not, criminals will continue it any way. That is essentially what Deputy Kenny is saying. That makes absolutely no sense. If it is wrong, we deal with it; we ban it. We do not say we are not going to ban it because then we are just going to force it all underground.  I completely agree with Deputy Aird. Illegal hunting is awful. Yes, we absolutely should deal with it, but let us deal with it. We do not say we are going to allow this to happen but this is awful activity on this side because it is illegal, while the legal activity is okay, because it is not. It is all cruel. He seems to enjoy his environment and appreciates looking at it but what is missing is the piece where he can connect with what an animal is feeling and whether we are inflicting pain or terror on the animal. As a nation I wish that we would start to put our principles at the forefront of what we do and ensure that we just do not tolerate any cruelty. That is what the public want. That is what voters want. I can never understand how issues like this, the fox-hunting Bill or the legislation on puppy farms get the support of the Government. It is not a rural-urban thing. There is a very small minority of people in this country who want those kinds of activities to be going on  For some reason, the Government has their back and continues to fight for that small minority, when governments all over the world are recognising that this is not something that modern society should be involved in. The Government and, unfortunately, Sinn F\u00e9in in opposition are also supporting it. I honestly do not know who is in the Government's ear or how their lobbying is so strong that it continues to defend the indefensible when it comes to animal cruelty. I really hope that over the next week every person out there, the 77% of the population of the Republic who oppose this, writes to their TDs and expresses their voice on this. What we need is for that voice to be heard in this Chamber, and not the voices of the very small minority of people who are making money from this or gaining whatever benefit they gain - I do not understand it - and that it is not those people dictating what happens in this Chamber and dictating our legislation. The majority of people want to see reforms in this area and want a Government that has empathy and will not tolerate animal cruelty. I hope that those people make their voices heard and that the Government listens.  I know there are some TDs in Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael who do not agree with hare coursing and I ask that they be given an opportunity to express their opinion, to represent their constituents and their values. It would be very unfair to expect someone to vote against this Bill when it goes against every grain of integrity or every principle they have when it comes to animal cruelty. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Is as an gcathair dom. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 sin soil\u00e9ir. Tr\u00e1th d\u00e1 raibh, \u00e1fach, bh\u00ed giorriacha in Dollymount Beach. When we look back at the hare and how it has evolved on our island since the Ice Age, with the retreat of the ice caps, giorria, fia, the small deer, it is intrinsically linked to our culture. The hare featured on our old currency. It is a beautiful animal but, sadly, there has not been any on Dollymount Beach in my constituency since 2017 or 2018, due to illegal lamping and the illegal use of vicious dogs. The two golf clubs on the island loved the hares, as opposed to the rabbits, because they did not burrow on the golf courses.  I thank Deputy Paul Murphy. I fundamentally disagree with him a lot of the time but I do agree with him on this issue. I welcome the fact that he mentioned an Independent TD. It is good to see that he thinks some of them are good. Tony Gregory was a proud Dubliner, a man who raised this issue back before there was lobbying and an online world, and before the survey was done showing 77% oppose coursing. He also understood the power of being inside the tent, so I recommend that. He was also sadly defeated when he brought this issue up. Some 33 years on, we are still here. I thank Deputy Murphy for raising it, too. We hear Deputies from across the House say we should allow Teachta\u00ed D\u00e1la to express their opinion on this matter, this barbaric killing of one of our beautiful native species. Thousands of wild hares are netted, I believe. Am I correct in saying it is 65,000? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  They are crowded together, bringing and spreading disease at a higher rate than they would naturally in the wild. They suffer broken legs and dislocated hips - some of the footage I have seen is quite gut-turning, to be honest. I am a man who has always loved my animals, from growing up. I cannot imagine that being done to one of my pets. This practice is cruelty with a licence.  The species, the Irish hare, is one of the few mammals that is uniquely our own, as well as the red squirrel and other native species. It is woven into our culture. I would love to see the Irish hare back in the places in my constituency that it never should have disappeared from. It actually was reintroduced. I only found this out recently. It was reintroduced to Bull Island but, sadly, it was brought out again by illegal lamping. There is a real opportunity for that reintroduction to happen. For us in the constituency of Dublin Bay North to get out to Dollymount Beach, is tearmann agus \u00e9al\u00fa \u00ed \u00f3n saol gn\u00f3thach. B\u00edonn muid i gc\u00f3na\u00ed ag breathn\u00fa ar \u00e1r gcuid sc\u00e1ile\u00e1n ar l\u00edne. Nuair a th\u00e9ann daoine amach chuig \u00e1it mar sin, \u00e1fach, feicfidh siad giorriacha, sionnaigh agus na hainmhithe n\u00e1d\u00fartha ar fad. It is something that can get people out of their heads. I will continue to work with the Government to have the Irish hare reintroduced in my constituency. I spoke to my granny before she passed about being a young girl from the area, going down collecting bottles. That was back before we got rid of the bottle deposit scheme, although I know it is back now. She was collecting bottles with her family, and there were thousands of hares. There is not one now. It is very sad, and this is a UNESCO heritage site.  I thank Deputy Paul Murphy for introducing this Bill, which I support. I am committed to the programme for Government and to financial matters but this is something that I fundamentally believe is wrong. None of this happens on its own. I thank all the campaigners, the National Animal Rights Association, the Irish Council Against Blood Sports and the ISPCA for everything they do. I thank the National Parks and Wildlife Service, everyone who has met and spoken to me, year after year and decade after decade, about a cause that should not have to be argued at all.  In other European countries and in Australia we can see how people are changing their outdated laws. We need to protect our wildlife. I urge everyone, at home and in this House, to look at what once was and what we can still protect. We still have a lot of the great species on Dollymount but I look forward to bringing the Irish hare back. This barbaric practice is out of step with all of the EU countries and it is well past time it was ended. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I thank Deputy Murphy for bringing this Bill forward. It is so important. Hare coursing is called a blood sport. That is where we should start. In what world is that acceptable, a blood sport? Think of what that actually means. What previous contributors have said has really landed with me today. We need to look at anything that is called a blood sport and realise that maybe in 2026, we are a little bit outdated.  We are constantly talking about improving the lives of animals in this country. I am a city TD, as everybody knows. However, I have very firm roots in the countryside. I have explained before my love of tractors and the countryside. I miss the time I spent as a child in the countryside. I caution that this should never be a divide. A conversation about this cannot be divided between city and country. We are all people. It is not a judgment on country by city or vice versa . We need to work together. In other countries where this used to happen, it has been banned. That is why we need to look at it now. Things evolve and it is an evolution of that. We cannot stay static just because it is tradition. I do not like that divide between city and country because it creates division, which is not helpful.  As previous speakers have said, hares are recognised in Irish law as a protected wild species. It is beyond me as to why we would have a protected species and then round them up, keep them in captivity and put them out to be chased by dogs. It does not make any sense. We would not accept that for a horse, our pet or anything else, to round up something that is protected and then use this as a way of entertaining people.  I was struck by the Minister of State's comment that things had changed and evolved in the Act of 2013. I think 13 years on we might change, evolve and move to banning it altogether. We have a biodiversity crisis. Native species like hares are vital to the continuation of biodiversity.  We have to look at the climate crisis that we are in at the moment and see what we are doing to preserve our future. People might say that it is only a hare. This is a balance. It is a very fine line. Deputy Aird spoke so well about how there is that line of animals, where they fit in and how it is the natural part. As Deputy Whitmore said, when we come as humans and interrupt that balance, that is where the problem is.  As others have said, a free vote is important on this issue. The reason for that is people need to vote with their conscience on this. I am sure others are getting emails about hare coursing and asking us to support Deputy Murphy's Bill. I ask that each party has a free vote and that we are able to vote with our conscience. I ask Deputies to think about it deeply. What does this mean? If we are not protecting an animal, which is a protected species, what does that say to us? If we were explaining this to a young child, how would we explain that? If we cannot explain laws in simple English like that to a child and it does not make sense, then it is not making sense and it needs to move on. If we were explaining to a young child that hares are protected but we are going to let them be captured, and we then run them around and get a dog to chase after them, but then hopefully they will know how to get out and off they go, and thank God the dogs have the muzzle because then the hares will not be mauled to death because we have evolved from 2013 and evolved to moving that on, that child would look at us and say, \"What? That makes no sense.\" Again, when we are looking at how we treat things that are more vulnerable than us, we need to be able to stand over that. There is no standing over that.  I do not wish to use all my time because I am probably saying stuff that other Deputies have said. I am conscious that it is a Thursday evening and people are busy. Ireland needs to show a little bit of leadership in animal welfare. I am sure that other Bills are going to come forward in the next little while about many different animals. This is something that other countries have banned. It used to happen in Australia. New Zealand, India, England, Scotland, Wales and the US used to all have hare coursing and they do not now. We should not have it either. We should follow the example of people who have evolved. We should move towards that. I would be concerned about it going underground and the illegal coursing that might happen but then let us make sure we have enforcement, and the garda\u00ed making sure they are doing it and all the agencies are put there to make sure that it does not happen. If it is illegal it is illegal, but that does not mean we should not go after those people who are doing those illegal things. That is not a reason not to move on from 2013 to now in 2026 to banning hare coursing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  Enclosed hare coursing, like we have in Ireland, was banned in Britain in 1914. It was deemed unsporting. It is so contrived and unnatural. Those were the words that were used by the coursing clubs that agreed with it being banned. Ireland is becoming a complete and utter outlier on animal rights. I am embarrassed at some of the things that I am about to talk about here. If anybody is listening from any other country, it is the idea that some of these practices are continuing in 2026. We have seen other countries banning greyhound racing, such as Wales, Scotland and New Zealand. This is way worse. We had a debate on fox-hunting here a few months ago. In many ways, this is worse because it is taking a wild animal, capturing it, putting it in cages for weeks on end, making it do something completely unnatural and then it is allowing greyhounds in to chase after it in a very enclosed space, although I know there are escapes. I noticed that the Minister of State kept using the word \"muzzled\" in his answer. The hare does not know that the greyhound is muzzled. It does not make any difference. They are running for their lives in terror. They can still have damage done to them, including injuries and so on. The fact that the hare is protected but licences are given to capture it and treat it in this way is beyond belief.  In 2019, a poll was done showing that 77% wanted a ban on hare coursing. The Minister of State said that we do not run the country by poll, apparently. I am in favour of minority rights, but the point of these polls is to show how unpopular these practices are and how out of touch this Government is in maintaining them. They are backward, medieval and barbaric. That is why people do not agree with them. Unlike foxes hares are protected, yet we are allowing them to be licensed to be captured. The Minister grants these licences to specific clubs; I understand there are 89. The NSPCA is the national body - a very respected authoritative body - in relation to animal welfare. This is what it had to say about hare coursing: it is a \"cruel, outdated, and barbaric practice, which is currently permitted to satisfy just a small minority of Irish people.\" That is an official animal welfare organisation.  Hares can be held for 12 weeks before being released to be chased by dogs. They are not on their own but are in with many other animals, which is against their nature. The NSPCA is supporting this Bill and asking TDs to be allowed to vote for this Bill. It is asking for a free vote. The Minister of State mentioned a couple of things. He said that it was so well-regulated and inspected that there was no difference in the outcome for coursed and uncoursed hares. I have a summary of the study that he referred to. There were 40 hares that were GPS tracked and, across all cohorts, nine out 40 animals were confirmed alive at six months and three confirmed dead. The remaining 28, or 70%, were lost to the study. Their fate was never determined. In other words, we cannot have a credible study with this lost 70%. The assumption by the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, is that they survived and went on their merry way. It is like saying that cancer patients could not be found and, therefore, they are all still alive. It just does not make any sense. On the outcome for coursed and uncoursed hares, one of the 20 coursed hares could be relocated alive six months after release compared with eight of 20 of uncoursed controlled hares. There was a massive difference in the outcome.  I emphasise that this is cruel to dogs as well. It is linked with the greyhound industry. Often, dogs only last one or two seasons. The Minister of State is particularly affiliated and has a liking for this industry, but that is the reality. Greyhounds live a very short amount of time if they are raced in this way.  I will mention the financial aspect. We are hearing incredible claims about millions being made from this. The Minister of State said there was a study in 2022, but he did not give any source. Maybe the Minister of State can give us the source for that. Unless he is talking about illegal gambling or something, there is no verification of \u20ac70 million anywhere. It is true that all these blood sports are linked with gambling, which is something that we should striving to eliminate completely in society and certainly not be encouraging. The damage that it does is untold. That is the only way in which it is being maintained. The Minister of State also said that it does not get any State funding. However, according to figures that I have seen, Greyhound Racing Ireland gives money to these coursing clubs. A total of \u20ac500,000 was given to the clubs between 2017 to 2022, which came largely from the Government funding that is voted in this D\u00e1il every year.  I will move on to the political aspect of this. We are calling for a free vote. Free votes have been given in the D\u00e1il when it comes to women's bodies and women's health.  If you like, they are given to things that are demonised. This should be demonised and I think there should be a free vote., Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael have for far too long stood over these really bad animal rights practices. I cannot believe Sinn F\u00e9in is coming back again with exactly the same arguments recycled from a few months ago in relation to fox hunting. They are probably word for word: regulated, set up a commission, etc. This is completely out of touch with the population and its base. Sinn F\u00e9in had a debate on fox hunting and this is exactly the same. It is a blood sport and I do not understand how anyone would stand over it. It does not augur well for what Sinn F\u00e9in would do in government if it is not willing to move on these issues in opposition.  In relation to some of the arguments made by Deputy Aird, I live in a place called Buzzardstown. A buzzard is a bird of prey. The Deputy stood over there telling us what a bird of prey does and I do not know what the linkage was with this issue. As has been said by other Deputies, it is constantly recited in here and happened with fox hunting, that when a fox does something that is completely natural to a fox, therefore foxes are bad. There is no justification for what was cited by the Deputy.  I reiterate that this argument that it is regulated and there are more hares in areas where there is coursing and therefore we should keep hare coursing as to ban it would drive it underground is not an argument against changing a law to outlaw something. According to the Minister of State, there are loads of inspectors right now going around the coursing clubs, so those inspectors could look after the illegal, underground coursing. The reality is that a study done by The Journal found there were 200 coursing events and four inspectors between 2019 and 2024, so there is very little inspection taking place.  I will finish by asking whether the Minister of State is in favour of cockfighting because, to me, it is exactly the same. It is unleashing two animals for one to damage the other for the entertainment of human beings. It is absolutely embarrassing that anybody would stand up in a parliament in this day and age and justify it but that seems to be what the Minister of State is doing. He spoke about nonsense arguments. I do not see any difference between a domestic pet and a wild animal. They all deserve to be protected. I do not see any difference at all; I do not think they should be treated differently. Maybe that is where we differ in that some animals are more important than others. There is this argument we should treat wild animals in a certain way and capture them for our entertainment. We have to lose these notions and actually decide that animals have their own integral rights to be on the planet without being used for our entertainment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I am happy and pleased to support Deputy Murphy's Bill today on behalf of the Green Party. This is probably the fourth substantive debate we have had on animal welfare related issues during the term of this D\u00e1il. We are discussing hare coursing today. We discussed fox hunting, puppy farms and greyhound racing. I recognise the work of those Deputies who have brought these issues forward as Private Members' Bills or motions. I welcome the focus during the term of the D\u00e1il on these issues. It is indicative of the fact that people have moved past where the bigger parties are on issues of animal welfare.  Unfortunately, for progress to be made and for laws to be changed, we need a majority across this House. In 2020, I was part of programme for Government negotiations on a wide range of issues. I remember being in the room when we debated issues of animal welfare and our party was not able to change the minds of the two other coalition parties at that time. We know from the speeches given today already, that when a vote is taken on Deputy Murphy's Bill, there is not a majority right now for this change and there is not a majority for some of the other changes that have been debated. It will be interesting when the Government's Bill on puppy farms comes forward. I welcome the fact the Government is advancing legislation on that but it is not strong enough and I hope we will be able to see the Government listen and be willing to make amendments to improve that legislation.  The challenge here is that the larger parties in this House are not where the people are at. I welcome the recent decision of the membership of Sinn F\u00e9in to change party policy in respect of fox hunting. Muzzling of coursing greyhounds was introduced in 1993. It was brought in for the coursing meets themselves. It is not done for training, of course - there is no law around that - but I do not believe the introduction of muzzling justifies this blood sport. I do not believe you can muzzle cruelty. While the coursing itself may no longer result in a live hare being torn apart, we still have to consider the trauma a hare experiences in terms of its capture, a wild animal being held in captivity for a period of time, the trauma of release from captivity if it survives the coursing meet, but most significantly the trauma that comes from violent exposure to two far larger animals, even if they are muzzled, and all of the risks that creates. We know the Irish hare faces a variety of threats. It faces threats from hunting, probably most significantly from the destruction of a large amount of its habitat, from infectious diseases such as rabbit haemorrhagic disease and European brown hare syndrome, and it faces competition from other species as well.  The Minister of State made a point about the risk, if Deputy Murphy's Bill is passed, that hare coursing will be driven underground. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niall Collins  I did not say that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Apologies. I know the point has been made about the risk of hare coursing being driven underground. First, it is important to recognise that illegal hare coursing already takes place underground. It is probably the biggest cause of mortality among hares right now. I do not believe the existence, and continued existence, of an illegal practice justifies the continued State support for a practice that is currently legal. While it is important the State takes those steps to deal with illegal coursing as it happens at the moment, I do not believe that should be linked to the continuance of hare coursing in legal meets.  I see hare coursing as an issue that is interconnected with the wider issue of the greyhound industry in this country. I have a real concern, from responses to multiple sets of parliamentary questions I have submitted to the Department and the greyhound racing board, about what the traceability system that has been put in place is actually showing us. It is worthwhile to talk about one year, 2021, when 11,600 greyhounds were born. Of those, only 450 are still actively racing, five years later. Of the rest, 1,500 have been rehomed, something I welcome, but 3,300 of those dogs born in 2021 are dead. These are dogs that did not get past their fifth birthdays. A further 5,300 have been exported to countries where we have no control over the animal welfare standards they face. Those dogs may have been re-exported subsequently as well. The State provides significant funding to this industry - \u20ac20 million of taxpayer's money every year. It is my view that funding should not be provided any more. I know in the previous D\u00e1il, my colleague, former Deputy Neasa Hourigan, brought forward Private Members' legislation to decouple the funding of greyhound racing from the funding of the wider equine industry.  Ultimately, the point we will be voting on is the specific issue of hare coursing. I and my party do not believe the trauma caused by this practice, even in the muzzled context, is justified. I think Ireland should adopt the change, the evolution in thinking on this matter, that has been seen in many other countries.  The introduction of the muzzle in 1993 was a reflection of the fact that the Irish people no longer believed it was morally justifiable for a live hare to be torn apart at the end of a coursing. In terms of their opposition, the Irish people's views on hare coursing have changed, evolved and have become more trenchant. The vote on this matter will demonstrate a House that is out of step with where the Irish people stand. Unfortunately, Deputy Murphy's Bill will not pass Second Stage, but I do think this matter will come before the House again. We have not seen the end of it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Niall Collins)  I absolutely respect everybody's opinion in relation to this or any other issue. People are perfectly entitled to take a position on this or any other issue, to articulate that position and to exercise their mandate to debate in these Houses, as am I doing as both a constituency TD and a Minister of State at the Department of agriculture. It is wrong, however, to try to misrepresent what I have said and the factual position in relation to how highly regulated the activity of coursing is. There was not one iota of acknowledgement on the part of any Opposition speaker in relation to the fact that there are 44 conditions attached to the licences that are issued to coursing clubs. There is a robust and thorough inspection regime before, during and after coursing events take place. Again, that was rubbished. There was also an attempt to demonise people who are involved in coursing and those who have a view in support of coursing. That is very regrettable. Yes, it is a minority pursuit. The fact that an opinion poll shows a particular point of view among people does not mean that the Government has to follow a course of action based on that view. As stated earlier, if were to follow the utterances of some people on the Irish political stage, everything would be the subject of a referendum. We would be having referendums on the triple lock and the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement. We would be having referendums every day of the week. People would probably want a referendum on this issue also.  I have set out quite clearly why we are happy to support hare coursing. I know a lot of people who oppose it, and I respect their point of view. I do not have an issue with their point of view. Equally, I know a lot of people who are very involved in, supportive of and invested in coursing. I do not mean they are invested in a financial way. Again, there is an attempt to try to demonise people who are involved. I regret that, because they are very decent people. I know people right across my constituency and the entire country who are involved in coursing clubs. Coursing is an activity they engage in. It is very important to put on the record again that for people who are involved in coursing, animal welfare is their top priority. The supporters of this Bill to bring about a ban on hare coursing seek to try to dismiss that and to rubbish it. All I can say is that they are wrong. The people involved in coursing have to ensure that the highest standards of animal welfare apply to the greyhounds involved and that the hares associated with coursing are the subject of the highest standards of animal welfare. The latter is the case, particularly in the context of the input from the National Parks and Wildlife Service, its wildlife officers and the veterinary people who are associated with the regulation and inspection of coursing.  I reiterate what I said at the outset. We are opposing the Bill. We do not do government by referendum, by opinion poll findings or by any such approach. We are taking a structured approach and a regulated approach to this matter. It is fair to say that coursing has evolved over the years. It has done so in a highly regulated and structured environment. It has moved with the times. While coursing is a minority pursuit, that does not mean that the Government cannot continue to support it. We are absolutely continuing to support it. Under this Government, there will not be any change in relation to that approach. There will not be a free vote either. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I thank all the Deputies who participated in the debate. I will start on the point about hare coursing being highly regulated, and that we do not give that more credit to that and to the idea that animal welfare is a top priority. Let us consider what hare coursing is in essence. You can regulate it all you like - and we are in favour of more regulation - but the essence of it involves going into the wild and capturing hares who are out there living their lives. They might sometimes be brutally short lives because of nature, which is fine, but they are out there living them. You go out, you make a lot of noise, you capture them in nets and you terrify them. You put them in little crates and then you put them in enclosures with a bunch of other hares. Then you allow dogs to chase after them. Some are injured and some are killed as a consequence. That is what hare coursing is. Unless you regulate the hares out of hare coursing, which is what our Bill proposes to do, then I do not see how the Minister of State can claim that animal welfare is a top priority. The Minister of State can make the case that he is concerned about animal welfare. If animal welfare really was a top priority, however, people would not be capturing hares from the wild and allowing dogs to run after them. Let us get real about what sort of regulation we are talking about and what hare coursing involves.  I want to emphasise a point. I do not know if Deputy Aird really intended to suggest that the hares enjoy it, but that is what it sounded like. Obviously, they do not enjoy it. They are not running for the craic. They are running because they think these dogs are going to kill them. They do not volunteer to be captured. They try to get away. That is why nets have to be used to catch them. They are not happy to stay there. That is why they have to be in enclosures. It is very clear that if we could ask a hare about this, it would say \"No. I really would prefer if you do not engage in setting dogs on me\".  This brings me to the point about nature being brutal and so on, which it often is, but the difference is that humanity has evolved. We are highly evolved. We have evolved to the point of having empathy with each other, and, hopefully, with other living creatures. That is why, on a philosophical level - and I recognise that there are people with different, genuinely held opinions - it is fundamentally cruel and wrong for us to put animals through difficult, damaging and sometimes deadly situations purely for our own entertainment. I believe this to be the view that is held by the majority of people in this country. That is why, philosophically, there is something fundamentally different with regard to engaging in and supporting the continuation of hare coursing and a hare being killed in the wild.  It was also pointed out that you have to be very careful to make sure that the dogs and hares are not hurt. It was good that people referred to dogs being hurt, but hares are also hurt. One can go through the reports from the National Parks and Wildlife Service, and we can see how many letters I received just in respect of last season. I will go from A to Z. In Abbeydorney, four hares were hit by dogs and one was pinned to the ground. In Abbeyfeale, seven hares were hit and three were pinned. One of the pinned hares was not examined for injuries until the following day. In Ardpatrick and Kilfinnane, three hares were hit. A few days before the event there, individuals entered the hare park in an attempt to steal hares. In Balbriggan, at least one hare was hit and pinned to the ground. In Ballyduff, one hare was pinned to the ground and was examined for injuries. In Ballyheigue, four hares were caught and pinned to the ground by dogs. In Borrisoleigh, three hares suffered hits and three were pinned. One hare was found dead. In Cappoquin, six hares were hit by dogs and two were pinned. One hare died from its injuries.  In Cashel, a hare suffered bruising after being pinned to the ground by a dog. In Castleisland and Millstreet, two hares were hit by dogs, and another hare was pinned with such force that an ear tag came off. In Cavan, Dungannon and Westport, five hares were hit and one was mauled into the ground. The hare that was mauled was found to have a graze on its back. In Charleville and Mallow, three hares were caught by dogs and pinned to the ground. The reality inherent in hare coursing is injuries to hares and some hares getting killed.  I want to address the rural-urban divide. The Government does not have to rule by opinion poll and it does not have to go with what every opinion poll says, but we have an opinion poll says quite definitively that there is not an urban-rural divide on this issue. It says that people in rural areas are more opposed to hare coursing than people in urban areas. What is this all about suggesting that this is coming from a bunch of city slickers who do not what it is like to be in the countryside where a tiny minority of people engage in hare coursing? It is an attempt to defend the indefensible by creating a culture war barrier by saying that what is really going on is an attack on rural life.  The vast majority of people in Dublin are not as separated from rural life as the Minister of State might think. Neither of my parents was born in Dublin. They came to Dublin and then they had children. I am a first-generation Dub. I spent plenty of time on farms in my childhood. I have plenty of connections to my cousins who continue to live in rural Ireland. Ireland is a small place. We are not so distant from each other.  A related point is that unless someone has been to hare coursing, he or she does not really have a right to have an opinion about it. If we think about that logically, we do not apply that to other things in the world. We can know a lot about hare coursing by reading about it and watching videos of what happens on YouTube. People do not have to go and see it. I made this point on the radio earlier. I am opposed on principle to the death penalty. I have never watched an execution take place, but I know that humans killing other people with the death penalty is wrong. It is correct for people to not go to hare coursing because they do not agree with what goes on there and still have a right to have an opinion on it, including putting forward legislation to ban it.  In relation to the arguments raised by Sinn F\u00e9in, the main argument seemed to be that it would drive it underground. That is interesting because it seems to accept that this is a bad thing and something that should not be happening, but that there could be more of it if it was driven underground. There is illegal hare coursing in Britain, but there is much less illegal hare coursing than there was legal coursing before, so we have some evidence of what happened. It seems unlikely that by criminalising something, we are going to create more of it. The point was also made that it would be a question of enforcement. As Deputy Coppinger pointed out, there was the call for a study and so on. The irony is that everybody knows that if there is a Sinn F\u00e9in Ard-Fheis in a few months and there is a vote on hare coursing, as there hopefully will be, and it changes its position and it supports a ban on hare coursing, all of the calls for this new independent study and so on will quickly be forgotten and its members will vote the correct way, if that happens, because the membership will push them to do it. It is really about finding justifications for not going in line with the party's membership, assuming that the vote on fox hunting and hare coursing would be very similar and not in line with the majority of Sinn F\u00e9in's voters and people who are looking to the left and who want a society based on human empathy and decency, which includes animal rights.  I want to quickly address a few of the arguments that the Minister of State made. In terms of the 2023 study from the NPWS, Deputy Coppinger demolished the argument that it any way suggests that hare coursing is positive for hare populations. The reality is that only one of the coursed hares was found alive. A reference was also made to the study in Donegal from 2003, which was based on a tiny population group.  I want to finish with a question for the Minister of State. The 2022 independent economic analysis that found that coursing benefits the economy by \u20ac70.7 million. I cannot find reference to it anywhere. There have been plenty of debates in the D\u00e1il about hare coursing between 2022 and now and lots of parliamentary questions have been asked about what the economic benefit of hare coursing is. No one has ever referenced this study before. I heard it today from Deputy Peter \"Chap\" Cleere. It is obviously part of a speaking note and a briefing. I would like to see this study. I have Googled it, and I cannot find it whatsoever. I would genuinely be interested in this study being published and for it to be referenced.  Finally, I want to encourage people to keep up the pressure, and I thank the campaigners in the Gallery. We have the benefit of almost having a full week between the debate and the vote to maximise pressure on TDs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  That concludes our debate for this evening. I thank everyone for their contributions. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Louise O'Reilly)  In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time on Wednesday, 8 July 2026. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 7.16 p.m. go dt\u00ed 2 p.m., D\u00e9 M\u00e1irt, an 7 I\u00fail 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 7.16 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 7 July 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Hare Coursing) Bill 2020: Second Stage [Private Members]"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-07-02"},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-07-06T13:22:09+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-07-01","counts":{"contributorCount":123,"divisionCount":0,"debateSectionCount":31,"questionCount":14,"billCount":0},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aindrias Moynihan)  I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case:  Deputy Martin Daly - To discuss plastic and reconstructive surgery services in Roscommon University Hospital.  Deputy Erin McGreehan - To discuss longer opening hours of the X-ray department at weekends in the minor injury clinic in Louth County Hospital.  Deputy Colm Burke - To discuss actions to reduce the risk to children who require MRI scans under anaesthetic.  Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne - To discuss the protection of historical and generational rights to seaweed on the west coast.  Deputies Gary Gannon, Daniel Ennis - To discuss the procedures governing planning application decisions in Dublin 7.  Deputy Sorca Clarke - To discuss staffing allocation at a Gaelscoil in Mullingar.  Deputy Michael Murphy - To discuss the decline in Garda roads policing unit numbers.  Deputy Thomas Gould - To discuss the number of schools in Cork currently at stage 2A for a prolonged period of time who desperately need new accommodation  Deputy Danny Healy-Rae - To discuss plans to review the current age limits for school bus drivers.  Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire - To discuss the failure to provide necessary supports for children with additional needs in the summer programme.  Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss the development of Bunclody Community College, County Wexford.  Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan - To discuss the reimbursement of a drug and implementation of the drug reimbursement system.  Deputy Albert Dolan - To discuss the introduction of a farm succession scheme.  Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath - To discuss the building project proposed for the amalgamation of Shanbally and Ringaskiddy National Schools, County Cork.  Deputy Louis O'Hara - To discuss supports for households affected by the ending of the cessation of turf cutting compensation scheme.  Deputy Maurice Quinlivan - To discuss funding for the roll-out of Bus Connects in Limerick city.  The matters raised by Deputies Erin McGreehan, Martin Daly, Gary Gannon and Daniel Ennis, Se\u00e1n Kyne, Colm Burke, Maurice Quinlivan, P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan, Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire, S\u00e9amus McGrath and Thomas Gould have been selected for discussion. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Hospital Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Erin McGreehan  It is great to have the Minister in the House this morning. I very much welcome the opportunity to have a discussion of a practical nature that will solve this issue and have really positive impacts on patients, staff and the wider health service across the north east.  The minor injury unit in Louth County Hospital, Dundalk, is one of the best services in the country. It serves the people of Louth well and we are immensely proud of it and grateful for it. I have spent many a Saturday there when my sons have been injured. We are very grateful that we do not have to go to Drogheda. Day after day, patients receive excellent care from dedicated doctors, nurses, radiographers, administrative staff and support staff. They are professional, effective and really efficient. I want to recognise all of them in this House. The unit's reputation is such that people regularly travel there from well beyond Louth. There were lots of Dublin accents to be heard in the accident and emergency department when I was there last Saturday. They did not even know that Louth was playing on Sunday. It was all about Dublin. People are travelling from north Dublin to County Louth because our minor injuries clinic is so good. As the Minister will know, the unit opens from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. seven days a week. It provides a really vital alternative to a really busy emergency department for patients with fractures, sprains, burns, wounds and other minor injuries. It is exactly the type of service we should continue to invest in. It has the same goal as many of us, which is to deliver the right care in the right place at the right time.  There is one significant limitation, however. That is why I am speaking here this morning. It is slowing down or delaying some of the excellent work that is being carried out. At weekends, the X-ray department only operates from 12 noon until 8 p.m. As a result, people who attend in the morning can face unnecessary delays while waiting for imaging. Those delays inevitably increase waiting times, creating frustration, and place additional pressure on staff who are doing everything possible with the resources available to them. This lack of service before 12 noon has a negative knock-on effect. This is not a resourcing issue. I hope it can be looked at and addressed.  We all know that weekends are a really busy time for injuries units as a result of sporting events and family activities. Every patient who can successfully be treated in Dundalk is one less patient for another hospital to treat. Extending X-ray availability across the entire opening hours of the minor injuries unit seven days a week would improve patient flow, reduce waiting times, enhance the patient experience and further reduce the pressure on the emergency department in Drogheda. For that reason, I ask the Minister to examine the recruitment of an additional radiographer to allow full radiography cover throughout the unit's opening hours every day of the week. This is not about creating a new service. It is about strengthening and extending a service we already have. Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Minister. I hope her response will be positive. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)  I thank Deputy McGreehan for the opportunity to discuss this very practical issue, which is of huge importance to the people of Louth and wider north-east region.  As she stated, minor injury units are a really practical response to an identified need to deal with small injuries away from hospital settings. This is a key part of Sl\u00e1intecare. As the Deputy also stated, these units are particularly busy at weekends when kids are playing sport and so much activity is taking place. That is even more the case during the summer when people are out and about and getting injured as a result of being involved in sporting or other activities.  The development of injury units is a key part of our hospital avoidance strategy. They provide a safe, convenient way for non-life threatening injuries such as broken bones, sprains, burns and all of those things that just happen as part of life to be treated. Crucially, they deliver the same level of care in respect of those conditions as emergency departments, but much closer to home and with much shorter waiting times. We cannot encourage people enough to attend injury units. Nationally, we have seen a great increase in attendances at injury units, reflecting, I hope, the high public confidence and the convenience of local access. Last year, for example, there were 222,000 attendances at injury units. That was a 5% increase over 2024.  As the Deputy knows, the minor injury unit at Louth County Hospital in Dundalk provides treatment for patients aged five years and older in respect of suspected fractures, sprains, minor burns, wounds and other injuries that do not require treatment at an emergency department. It is open from 9 a.m. seven days a week, including on bank holidays, with the last patient seen at 8 p.m. It is one of the busiest units in the country. It is the fifth busiest of the 14 units nationally.  The most important thing for the Deputy is increasing capacity at the unit at weekends. She is completely right, because that is exactly when it is needed. I have discussed this matter with the HSE and been informed that the minor injury unit has access to two digital X-ray machines, which is fine, and that radiology services are available 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. Monday to Friday. At weekends, however, those services are only available from midday to 8 p.m. The plan is to extend weekend availability. There is a plan to recruit additional resources to do precisely that. I expect that the resources to extend the radiology services to a fully operational model will be put in place during quarter 3 of this year, which is not that far away.  I am glad to have this opportunity to discuss the matter with Deputy McGreehan and to outline the very real plan for the extension of this excellent injury unit. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Erin McGreehan  It is very rare one gets a really positive response like that in the House. This is great news for everyone in the entire north east. As I said, the minor injury clinic in Dundalk is an incredible resource for all families and people who live in the area. This is really positive news which shows that the work of the staff in Louth County Hospital in Dundalk has been seen to be successful. The HSE and the Minister are going to invest in that success in order to make sure that the clinic can maintain and expand its excellent services at weekends. I very much appreciate the Minister's work in this area and thank her for it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  I am delighted. I again thank Deputy McGreehan for raising this matter. Deputy Paula Butterly also raised it with me but in a different way. I just want to compliment the region in general and the hospital management in Louth, particularly Priya Madhu, who is the hospital manager there and who has done so much. Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda, which the minor injury unit supports, has done phenomenal work. There are zero people on trolleys there today. For the past ten days, the hospital as been completely within the green threshold in that regard. As a representative for County Louth for so long, the Deputy knows how that was very much not the case a year and a half ago or two years ago and that the emergency department in the hospital was really challenged. There were no people on trolleys in the hospital yesterday. I checked that at 8 a.m. this morning, and it is only just after 9 a.m now. There were also no people on trolleys on Saturday. As indicated, all week long, the hospital has been within the green threshold, which is the accepted safe level.  We have given Drogheda hospital additional resources for a virtual ward that has 12 beds. I am pleased to say that Drogheda hospital is using that ward. There were eight people on the virtual ward yesterday. The figure for the ward has been in and around that each day. They could put a few more on because there are 12 beds on the ward. The point is that the hospital is using the resources it has been given intelligently, well and in a way that serves the people Deputy McGreehan represents in County Louth. I am so pleased to champion, highlight and promote what Priya Madhu and her team have done. It is absolutely fantastic. The Deputy is aware what has happened is a turnaround for both the hospital for the people she represents. We are so pleased to be able to do more to support that really excellent level of care. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Hospital Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Hospital Services","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aindrias Moynihan)  Let us keep the momentum going. An Teachta Martin Daly is next. His matter relates to plastic and reconstructive surgery services at Roscommon University Hospital. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Daly  I thank the Minister for being here. This is a success story that the Minister will be glad to hear about. The question is how we are going to support and expand the service that exists at Roscommon University Hospital. The reconfiguration of the hospital, which caused huge controversy at the time, has turned out to be a great success, with many innovative departments and many new services for people, especially the elderly, being developed.  In the past 15 years, a plastic surgery unit that uses a see-and-treat model has been developed under Dr. Deirdre Jones, who is a plastic surgeon. In 2025, the unit received 8,000 GP referrals from Donegal, Leitrim, Sligo, east Mayo, east Galway, Westmeath and Offaly. The unit developed a photographic referral system in order the GPs could take photographs of skin lesions include them with referral letters. That happened during Covid. Of the 8,000 referrals, 2,000 were able to be triaged and referred back to the relevant general practitioners for appropriate treatment without the need for the patients involved to be seen by the unit. Of the remaining 6,000 patients, 2,000 have had surgery. The unit is also involved in screening for, diagnosing and treating skin cancers. The 2,000 surgeries to which I refer were carried out by one plastic surgeon, one part-time plastic surgeon and eight advanced nurse practitioners working over different periods. This unit is hugely productive. It is located in an area where there is a high prevalence of skin cancer. The west of Ireland has one of the highest prevalences of skin cancer, not just in Ireland but internationally. There is no plastic surgeon from the tip of Malin Head in Donegal right down to Roscommon. We have patients travelling from Sligo, Donegal and the other areas to which I referred to this unit in Roscommon, which is providing an exemplary service. In addition, 10% of all cases of melanoma, which is a deadly skin cancer, are treated at the unit.  The problem for the unit is that it is treating approximately 50 patients per week. From a staff point of view, it has the capacity to treat 150 per week. This is really important, because those in the unit are constrained by the environment in which they are working. They are working out of two small treatment rooms and they have an area in which they assess patients. Will the Minister urge the HSE and the Department to consider the expansion of the physical infrastructure in which this unit operates in order that it can operate with maximum efficiency and to its maximum potential?  As already stated, this is a success story. It is a story of productivity. It is a story of Sl\u00e1intecare. It is a story of a hospital which has reimagined itself but which needs ongoing support. The hospital also has a tremendous endoscopy unit, which serves the region, and has developed services for elderly patients. We know that the population is getting older and that, as a result, there will be a need for frailty clinics, falls clinics, memory clinics and a range of outpatient services. This really is something worth supporting. I urge the Minister and her Department to intervene with the HSE to support this unit in any way it can. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  I am so glad to have the opportunity to discuss this matter with the Deputy. I want to compliment the work of Dr. Deirdre Jones and that of the hospital manager, Marie Doorly, who has transformed Roscommon University Hospital into an enormously important part of the infrastructure of the north west. The hospital is doing great work, and we want to see it doing more great work.  Roscommon is a level 2 hospital. The Government is pleased to have been able to increase its budget by 63%, from \u20ac28 million in 2020 to \u20ac46 million in 2025. Staffing has grown by 31%. In-patient bed capacity has grown by 5%. As Deputy Daly is aware, what we are trying to do at the hospital is so much about day-case procedures. He referenced the endoscopy suite, which I am going to go to see. I think that unit could run harder in the evenings and that we could do more there. Where we see really efficient practice is what we want to support.  As the Deputy stated, the clinic in question is run by Dr. Deirdre Jones. There is a lot of advanced nursing practitioner support within the clinic, which is a real example of what is good about and what is possible with Sl\u00e1intecare. There is no reason for people from Roscommon to have to travel to Galway for this service when it can be and is being delivered so capably in Roscommon. The service is led by a consultant and provides day-case and outpatient care.  Of course, it has the ancillary benefit of reducing pressure on the acute hospital in Galway, which does not need to see these day case procedures that can be supported so well elsewhere.  What I really admire about this treatment process and the way the hospital is running it is that it is a direct access model. It is a \"see and treat\" service, which is fantastic for patients because they do not have to come back again and again. It also runs a skin cancer surveillance service under the national cancer control programme, which has been in operation for 15 years. It ensures that all patients who have had any sort of cancer diagnosis are kept actively under surveillance and monitored. In the past three years, it has introduced a photo triage element of the service, which is fantastic. It means that GPs can send in a GP referral as requested but also include a photo, so they are getting ahead of the question all the time. The clinical nurse manager reviews that in conjunction with the consultant. It is a really streamlined pathway to the correct model of care. In many cases, the patient may not need an appointment and the GP is advised as such. Therefore, it is a very efficient, productive and caring model, where patients are prioritised on the basis of clinical need.  Roscommon hospital has excised twice as many skin cancers - 1,200 in 2024 - as benign lesions, and has also treated 10% of Ireland's melanoma patients. That is quite an output for the work in a model 2 hospital. We will continue to invest in the plastic services, and the opportunities for expansion of the services can be reviewed. I happen to be in Roscommon in July, and I might drop in and have a look. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Daly  I thank the Minister for her comprehensive answer, which I appreciate. The important thing is the innovation that has happened at this particular unit in terms of the \"see and treat\" model, where patients are referred for photo triage before they attend. The service is led by a consultant but delivered by specialist advanced nurse practitioners, ANPs, in dermatology, who are trained in the screening and diagnosis of skin cancers and other skin lesions. These may not turn out to be skin cancers but it is important that this work is done. We need to support the advanced nurse practitioner model in this unit and develop it further. It needs more physical capacity. I have spoken to the HSE. I spoke to Mr. McCallion last week after the health committee meeting, and he said the HSE is going to look into that. It is worth supporting.  The whole issue about Roscommon is that the public in the west, in particular in Roscommon and east Galway, were promised that with the reconfiguration of Roscommon University Hospital, it would be supported in all its endeavours to provide appropriate services, such as day services. It is important that we keep an eye on the replacement acute psychiatric unit, the car parking services and the outpatients unit, which does not have disabled toilet facilities or a ramp for disabled patients to use. We need to develop the endoscopy service. If the Minister can expand that, we would be delighted and would support her in that.  There are so many good things happening in Roscommon University Hospital but it takes commitment. For example, Roscommon University Hospital was promised a neurological rehab unit in 2015, with an attached budget of \u20ac8 million. That was taken off the capital plan twice, and only after an intervention by me and my office has it been placed back on the plan. There is a dearth of neurological rehabilitation places in the west of Ireland. I urge the Minister to support Roscommon University Hospital in every way she can. This is an exemplar for the reconfiguration of that hospital. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  I had the opportunity to see that for myself when Marie Doorly came to our regional meeting for the north west and presented on behalf of Roscommon hospital. It was clear to me. I have huge respect for Roscommon hospital and the role it is playing in the health architecture in the north west. As the Deputy knows, the local injury unit is highly regarded, with people coming from all over the north west - from Mayo and elsewhere - to that unit as an alternative to going to Castlebar. I am pleased to say there will be another injury unit in Ballina, which hopefully will take the pressure off Roscommon somewhat, because it has been filling that role. I know what it is doing in terms of endoscopy and helping with stepdown beds for the other hospitals to ensure the appropriate flow.  What the Deputy is talking about is the excellent \"see and treat\" model of care, delivered away from acute hospitals in an excellent model 2 hospital for the people of Roscommon and beyond. It is an exemplar of Sl\u00e1intecare. I compliment Marie Doorly, Dr. Deirdre Jones and all of the people working there who have delivered this. I will do anything I can to support that kind of committed Sl\u00e1intecare focus they have had. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Hospital Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Planning Issues","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I thank the Minister of State for joining us. Let me be clear. I am not looking for the State to intervene when it comes to planning decisions. That is not our purpose in coming in here today. However, we are conscious that the senior members of Government have made observations publicly on issues in Dublin city centre, most pointedly the dereliction and vacancy. Deputy Ennis and I want to bring forward some very significant anomalies and contradictions in planning, particularly in the Dublin 7 area, that have an impact on local businesses.  I want to focus on two businesses in particular, the Cowtown Market and the Stay With Us caf\u00e9 in Dublin 7. Before they opened, their locations were the site of dumping and antisocial behaviour. They were places where the aesthetic quality left a lot to be desired. These businesses then invested in their community. One built a little caf\u00e9 with wooden seats, where every morning in Phibsborough, you will see people going in, bringing their dogs and sitting there. It is a lovely little space, and it absolutely adds to the community. The Cowtown Caf\u00e9, just off Stoneybatter, also took a place that was previously the site of dumping and antisocial behaviour, and invested in it. It now has little caf\u00e9 stalls and saunas there.  Inexplicably, Dublin City Council has told them that they have to remove the infrastructure they have built, which has added to the community. I am dealing with issues in Dublin 7 where there is an absence of enforcement at very significant conservation buildings, yet these two businesses have been told they are outside the planning. As they have not met planning standards, the whole business has to go, rather than Dublin City Council simply working with them to help them get to the right side of planning. I am raising this to the Chamber with Deputy Ennis not because we want the Minister of State to intervene but to raise the issue and see what we can do to work better. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  To follow on from Deputy Gary Gannon, the Cowtown Market is a space that is so much more than an outdoor food market. It is a space that was once a derelict site. We have seen serious levels of antisocial behaviour at that end of Prussia Street and the Stoneybatter area. It opened since Covid and has been thriving ever since. It creates local employment and has strengthened relationships with the local pub, the City Arms, and other local businesses like Tesco and the shops across the way. It has really brought life and vitality to that area.  Dublin City Council wants to return that to a derelict site. It is a complete contradiction. It contradicts some of the work that Dublin City Council is trying to do around the city centre with regard to meanwhile use and everything else. Not only has this business strengthened local businesses but it has strengthened local community networks. It is complementing an already amazing community spirit in Stoneybatter.  The Stay With Us caf\u00e9 is a small local independent caf\u00e9 that is not only very important and a community hub for the local community in Phibsborough but because there is also an emergency homeless hostel next door to it, it is a hub for the people living there.  Both spaces are at risk of being lost. We are crying out for derelict spaces to be turned into community hubs. We are not asking the Minister of State to intervene. We are asking him to open up a dialogue with Dublin City Council, as we have also done. Again, these spaces are not only very important to local independent businesses but they are vital community hubs. We cannot lose them because they will fall back into dereliction, and we know what that dereliction brings. We are doing everything in our power to save these spaces. We are asking the same of the Minister of State. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan)  I thank the Deputies for raising this issue. I congratulate Deputy Ennis on his recent election. What a day for his family, friends and supporters. It is an incredible achievement. It is great to see the two constituency TDs from the same party working so closely together. It is not that common, by the way. I am grateful that they have raised this issue.  I appreciate that there is a sense of vibrancy in Stoneybatter.  I am familiar with it. There are some great food locations and cafes, so I understand where the Deputies are coming from with this.  The response that I am going to read out was drafted not knowing what angle the Deputies were coming from, but I might come back to it in the supplementary response.  This gives me an opportunity to update Members on the current procedures governing planning application decisions in general, noting the restrictions on my ability to comment on individual planning decisions. I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Browne. I wish to explain at the outset that the role of Minister in relation to the planning system is primarily to provide a policy and legislative framework for the planning authorities, An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la and the Office of the Planning Regulator, OPR, in performing their statutory planning functions.  Under section 30 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shall not exercise any power or control in relation to any particular case with which a planning authority or An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la is or may be concerned. This means that the Minister is explicitly prevented from intervening in such cases, which is of utmost importance to maintain the independence of the planning authority or commission. In fairness, Deputy Gannon already alluded to how he was aware of that.  All development proposals require planning permission, unless they are specifically exempted under the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, or the supplementary Planning and Development Regulations 2001, as amended. Where any person is unsure if planning permission is required, they may seek a declaration from the relevant planning authority under section 5 of the 2000 Act as to whether their case \"is or is not development or is or is not exempted development\" within the meaning of the Act.  When a person submits a planning application under section 34 of the 2000 Act, irrespective of whether the proposed development is located in an urban or rural location in any county, the relevant planning authority, in making its decision, shall have regard to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area. It is a matter for the relevant planning authority to consider each application on a case-by-case basis and to decide, in accordance with the provisions contained in the legislation, whether to grant the permission, subject to or without conditions, or to refuse permission.  Where an individual has participated in the planning process or is directly affected by a planning decision of a planning authority, they may lodge an appeal to the commission in accordance with section 37 of the 2000 Act. Furthermore, any person who has participated in the appeals process, or shows that they have sufficient interest, may seek a judicial review of the relevant decision of the commission. In addition to the appeals process, if any person has a planning issue that is systemic in nature, they can refer the matter to the OPR or a referral may be made to the Office of the Ombudsman if the issue relates to an individual matter, such as the way a local authority has carried out its administrative functions.  The response goes on in the same vein. I take the Deputies\u2019 point, and they will understand how limited the Department and, by extension, the Minister and I as a Minister of State in that Department are in relation to commenting on individual cases. The Deputies made a point about the standard application of enforcement across the city. That should be same when it comes to dereliction. I know that there are beautiful Georgian buildings on that side of the city and that Deputy Gannon has been raising the issue of dereliction for a long time. He may perceive that there has been a lack of attention to that issue and all of sudden there is attention on this particular issue that the Deputies are referring to. I take the Deputies\u2019 point and I might come back to it in my supplementary response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I thank the Minister of State for his response and his understanding of the situation. There is a frustration. We spend so much time talking vacancy and dereliction in Dublin Central that the potential for losing two businesses that have added to the vibrancy and improved the aesthetic quality is grating to the point that it is nonsensical.  For a small independent cafe like Stay With Us, if it is to make an appeal to An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, that is going to cost over \u20ac4,000. It is a small independent cafe that is being held to the same appeals standard as a large company. It just does not make sense. As a community that is trying desperately to add to its area, support our local independent businesses, and engage with the parts of the community that are really investing in improving Stoneybatter and Phibsborough, it is so frustrating that Dublin City Council can just tell people to take something down and then it is gone. We know what comes afterwards. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  I thank the Minister of State. Consistency is key, and that is what is letting us down with our local authority in this instance. Communities do not expect every planning application to succeed, but they do expect consistency in how planning is enforced. We are not asking for weaker planning rules, but for a planning system that is proportionate, consistent and capable of recognising the wider public good when local people invest in their communities and turn once-derelict sites that were not only eyesores, but causing antisocial behaviour and other nefarious activities, into thriving local community hubs. It is hard to take. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan  Just to respond in general without commenting on specifics, we have to take a balanced view of this. There may be a business within an area, whether it is a cafe, a commercial enterprise or shop of some sort, that will have gone through the step-by-step planning process and been successful in getting its planning application approved. There may be a sense of unfairness if others do not go through that same process, if the Deputies know where I am coming from.  That said, in my limited experience of Stoneybatter, it is obvious to someone like me that it is starting to rejuvenate itself in many ways. The Deputies live there and are aware of this day to day. There is a real sense of entrepreneurship and a growing association with it becoming a really good place to eat, with a lot of restaurants and cafes popping up. It is fair to say that there is an onus on the planning authority to take into consideration the direction of travel when an area within a city like Dublin is starting to reimagine or rejuvenate itself. Other than that, I cannot say much more, but I take the Deputies' point.  We have a lot of work to do, certainly within my Department and section in terms of heritage funding, to ensure that we invest in the incredible built heritage in that part of the city. They are throughout the city, but particularly in that part of city there are some absolute gems that we have not invested in for far too long or perhaps paid enough attention to from an enforcement point of view to ensure that the owners of those properties are bringing them back to life and protecting them.  That onus is on us, but there is also an onus on us to ensure that where rejuvenation is happening naturally, we support it rather than being a hindrance to it. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Planning Issues"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Seaweed Harvesting","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne  I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for selecting this Topical Issue for debate this morning, and I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Dooley, to the Chamber. As he knows, I raised this matter in the Upper House on 18 March, and due to its importance for coastal communities, I wanted it to be the first issue that I raised as part of a debate in this House.  This is, as the Minister of State knows, a classic big guy versus small guy issue. As it stands, small harvesters are providing seaweed product to big and smaller processors. Smaller processors are on record as saying that they are quite happy with the status quo , but bigger players want to control the licensing.  In March, the Minister of State indicated that the marine planning policy statement, MPPS, was being finalised and was expected to be brought before the Government in April gone by. What is the status of the MPPS? What is it proposing regarding seaweed rights?  In September 2023, the then Minister of State with responsibility for local government and planning, Deputy Kieran O'Donnell, stated in the House:  ... there also exists the right of individuals to harvest wild seaweed, namely those who hold appurtenant rights and profit-a-prendre rights. Their rights to harvest wild seaweed may be related to a property known as a folio or appurtenant right or built up through harvesting from the same area over a period of time known as a profit-a-prendre rights. The process of registering seaweed harvesting rights on a property folio is matter for the Property Registration Authority of Ireland [Tailte \u00c9ireann].  Advice provided by the Attorney General\u2019s Office in 2018 to my Department was that these rights were to be respected.  There is a cost and a burden on harvesters to register those rights. What thoughts does the Minister of State have in relation to a simpler, less costly procedure to allow harvesters to once and for all register their traditional or generational rights that are handed down but are not on existing folios? Something simpler than engaging with solicitors and going through Tailte \u00c9ireann is in order.  T\u00e1 s\u00e9 r\u00e1ite ag an Aire St\u00e1it go gcaithfimid cearta na mbainteoir\u00ed a chaomhn\u00fa agus a chosaint. D\u00fairt na hiarAir\u00ed St\u00e1it ag an am, an Teachta O\u2019Donnell agus iarTheachta English, go gcaithf\u00ed na cearta sna f\u00f3ili\u00f3nna agus na cearta traidisi\u00fanta eile a chaomhn\u00fa agus go bhfuil r\u00f3l ag Tailte \u00c9ireann maidir le cearta feamainne at\u00e1 leagtha s\u00edos \u00f3 ghl\u00fain go gl\u00fain ach nach bhfuil scr\u00edofa ar f\u00f3ili\u00f3nna a chl\u00e1r\u00fa. Ach t\u00e1 costais ag baint leis seo. An bhfuil aon bhealach go bhf\u00e9adfa\u00ed \u00e9 sin a dh\u00e9anamh tr\u00ed phr\u00f3iseas n\u00edos simpl\u00ed agus ar chostas \u00edseal? C\u00e9ard iad smaointe an Aire St\u00e1it air seo?  T\u00e1 r\u00f3l ag Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, MARA, agus t\u00e1 a chuid oifigigh den tuairim nach bhfuil cead\u00fanas ag teast\u00e1il le haghaidh baili\u00fa n\u00f3 baint m\u00e9id beag feamainne ar bhonn neamhthr\u00e1cht\u00e1la le haghaidh \u00fas\u00e1id phearsanta. De r\u00e9ir MARA, m\u00e1 t\u00e1 daoine ag baint agus ag baili\u00fa feamainne le haghaidh \u00fas\u00e1id tr\u00e1cht\u00e1la, n\u00f3 m\u00e9id m\u00f3r le haghaidh \u00fas\u00e1id pearsanta, n\u00ed m\u00f3r d\u00f3ibh iarratas a dh\u00e9anamh ar chead\u00fanas \u00fas\u00e1ide \u00f3 MARA. T\u00e1 na ruda\u00ed seo f\u00edorth\u00e1bhachtach. N\u00edl s\u00e9 soil\u00e9ir c\u00e9ard at\u00e1 ag teast\u00e1il \u00f3 bhainteoir\u00ed feamainne. This is an issue that has been going on for many years. While there was some certainty provided in the Attorney General's advice back in 2018, there are still licence applications being lodged that I presume are not being dealt with by MARA. MARA is a new agency and it has a role in deciding on those licences, but it is important that there be clear direction from the Department in relation to this. Is there a simpler process whereby, once and for all, we can deal with the generational rights of seaweed harvesters to control their product and rights? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Timmy Dooley)  I thank the Deputy for his question. I know of his particular interest in this area. I have met with him and some seaweed harvesters. Indeed, he and I have discussed this in the Seanad previously. I thank him for his advocacy on behalf of those people who are particularly impacted by this and I congratulate him again on his successful election back to this House, where I have no doubt he will make a significant impact as he has in the past, not least on this issue.  Ireland's first non-statutory MPPS for all marine planning aspects was published in November 2019, pending the introduction of the national marine planning framework and the enactment of the Maritime Area Planning, MAP, Act 2021. In 2019, the MPPS outlined existing components of the marine planning system and its future vision. It set out the high-level priorities of the enactment of the marine planning system in Ireland. Ireland's national marine planning framework, NMPF, was subsequently adopted in May 2021. The NMPF brings together all marine-based human activities for the first time, outlining the Government's vision, objectives and marine planning policy for each marine activity. All public bodies and consenting authorities are required to have regard to it in exercising their statutory functions. This is intended to ensure that consistency, precautionary and evidence-based decision-making across all Departments and agencies. The objectives of the NMPF in relation to seaweed harvesting are: to support the sustainable harvesting of seaweed, having regard to the important economic and social contribution it makes to coastal communities; develop and maintain a fit-for-purpose regulatory framework that supports sustainable harvesting, ensures that key seaweed species that support multiple vital ecosystems are safeguarded and respects existing formal and informal rights to harvest - I think this last is the nub of where the Deputy is coming from - and support ongoing research to build on available data to support sustainable seaweed harvesting.  The Deputy has asked for my view on that, which I have made known to the officials. It is that where people have rights that are established, either by way of documented evidence on folios and other means or through a significant tradition that can be verified insofar as possible, their rights should be respected. We see this from an historical perspective. Coming from a small farm in the west, I am very conscious of parcels of land not always being documented in a manner that would be sufficient to address the ownership or the title deeds, etc. We have to find a methodology of addressing that. Our officials are working on that.  The enactment of the MAP Act in 2021 subsequently provided a statutory framework for marine planning policy statements, and following a consultation on a draft statutory MPPS in 2025, that policy statement is currently being finalised and is expected to be brought before the Government in the coming weeks. We had intended and hoped it would be ready for April but it has lagged a little bit.  I am aware of the complexities involved in relation to traditional seaweed harvesting, having met and engaged with representatives of the industry, as I did with the Deputy. The Maritime Area Regulatory Authority has also engaged with representatives of the industry and is engaging with the Department in relation to the existing regulatory framework, because that has to be clarified to some extent. In that context, it is important to note that, since the establishment of MARA, applicants may apply to the regulator for a licence to harvest seaweed in accordance with Schedule 7 of the 2021 Act, which provides for maritime usage that may be undertaken pursuant to the granting of a licence. MARA shall, before granting a licence, have regard to any environmental impacts arising, and any Government policies that may affect or relate to the functions of MARA. That is a critical component of this discussion. I would also note that departmental officials are examining the regulatory framework to ensure that it is appropriate to adequately safeguard holders of traditional seaweed harvesting rights. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne  I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive response. I welcome the fact that he expects the MPPS to be brought to the Government in the coming weeks. May I assume, therefore, that MARA is not granting licences pending the MPPS? Is that in abeyance? Is there a formal process? Is it involving itself in consultation on the best way forward in relation to the harvesting of seaweed and the licensing thereof? It is a relatively new agency. It is an issue that no licences have been granted for a number of years.  The Minister of State has said that departmental officials were working on a simplification or a process to allow this. Have we any timelines in mind for that? The most important thing is that there would be a simpler process before any licences would be granted by MARA. It is key that MARA would not grant licences until we have a clearer system, the MPPS and a policy from the Department and that MARA was aware of this. I hope that MARA is sitting on these licence applications and is either rejecting them because of lack of a policy, or else just not dealing with them, and that the Minister of State would be given time to ensure that the traditional rights of seaweed harvesters were protected via whatever process or simplification could be done. It is important - the Minister of State has an opportunity in this - to ensure that this issue is put to bed once and for all, that these traditional rights would be registered in some fashion at no great cost to the harvesters themselves, and that these rights could be handed down to the next generation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Timmy Dooley  I want to make the Deputy aware that MARA has a statutory function. It is an independent regulatory authority. I would not be in a position, nor would the law permit me, to influence the work it does. In the adjudication of any licence application, it will have to follow the legislation as it stands and would not be minded to consider what we might be discussing in this House or what any future proposal might be. However, as I indicated to the Deputy, we want to bring forward proposals that would, insofar as possible, provide support to those traditional harvesters in recognition of the rights that have been established over a prolonged period of time. I want officials to pursue it insofar as is legally possible so that we can provide assurances, give recognition of those rights even in circumstances where documented rights are not established on folios, etc., and find a registration process that would comply with the law. In line with the law since MARA's statutory establishment, applicants may apply to the regulator for a licence to harvest seaweed in accordance with Schedule 7 of the 2021 Act, which provides for maritime usage that may be undertaken pursuant to the granting of a licence.  Before granting any licence, MARA shall, of course, have regard to any environmental impacts arising. As I said, MARA is within its rights. MARA has a large volume of applications relating to matters right across its remit, whether it be in respect of offshore renewables, Irish Water applications or seaweed harvesting. There is a large volume of work has yet to be concluded. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Seaweed Harvesting"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Hospital Services","counts":{"speechCount":9,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  Concerns have been raised in Cork regarding access for children to MRI scans in circumstances where a general anaesthetic is required. My understanding is that there were outside people coming in to do this work. That all stopped last year. The waiting list has grown substantially and, as a result, there is a concern. Eight consultants signed a letter advising of their concerns. The question now is how we are going to resolve this issue.  Planning was granted for a new paediatric unit at Cork University Hospital, CUH, in 2022. Work on that project has not commenced. Access to certain procedures for children is being restricted as a result. My understanding is that people from outside were being employed to do some of the work involved but that this has stopped.  The other issue that is of concern relates to the outpatient unit that is due to open at Curraheen and whether there will be sufficient staff to operate it. What happened in this instance was that external firms were brought in to do the work. That has stopped, but no additional staff have been taken on to do the work that was being done previously. I have no problem with work being stopped in circumstances where outside contractors were doing it. However, I do have a concern about waiting lists growing substantially.  There is also a question in relation to paediatric services in Cork. There is now major concern about how long a child will have to wait if they need an MRI scan in circumstances where he or she needs a general anaesthetic in order for the scan to take place. The letter to which I refer states that the waiting time could be as long as four years. That is really not acceptable at this stage. What can be done to make sure that there is not an unreasonable waiting time when it comes to getting access to these scans and to resolve the other issues the consultants involved have raised? I hope those issues can be resolved by the HSE, the management at the hospital and the people working at the coalface, namely the consultants, general doctors and nurses. That needs to be looked at. When will action be taken on this matter? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  I appreciate the Deputy raising this matter. I feel as though I may be operating in something of a vacuum here. I might follow up with the Deputy in order to discover who exactly are the people who signed that letter. It is not a letter I have seen. It may have been sent to my Department, but I have not seen it yet. I certainly want to discover who they are and see the issue they are raising. Due to the fact that I am operating in a bit of a vacuum, I have to rely on information on what is happening at the same time.  As the Deputy knows, we ceased third-party insourcing as of yesterday, 30 June. He stated three times an external group of people were coming in to CUH to do some diagnostic work, which is exactly what we were seeing with third-party insourcing. I can fairly infer that what the Deputy is describing may be a consequence of the ending of third-party insourcing of the kind that those on the health committee found so problematic. I do not know if it is the case that this was a third-party insourcing arrangement that has ceased. The Deputy is not sure. We can follow up and check the names. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I will reply to the Minister in my next contribution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  Sure. What I would point out is that the south west has a more than ample number of ample staff at the moment. It has recruited 617 people this year alone, which is a nearly quarter of all the people who have been hired by the HSE this year. The HSE has recruited 2,700 people overall. As stated, 617 of them have been appointed in the south west, which is one of six regions. Those in the south west have dramatically increased their recruitment. They are still very high when it comes to agency staff and overtime, which means that there has been no lack of people available to work in the south west.  As already stated, third-party insourcing ceased yesterday. I am not suggesting that this is directly related, because I do not have that information. However, some of that third-party insourcing in CUH related directly to diagnostics. The letter to which the Deputy referred relates to a diagnostic concern. That must be sorted out because the people who must not be prejudiced by what is happening in this regard are children who are awaiting diagnostic scans.  The issue around the letter and the timing of everything certainly raises more questions for me to interrogate and investigate. As I said, the south west has recruited many more people than other regions. Dublin Mid-Leinster has recruited about 300 people, so the south west is well advanced in terms of its recruitment and the availability of people to do this work. We must figure out exactly what has happened and how that may be managed, but this does raise quite a number of new questions for me to investigate.  The Deputy asked about developments relating to paediatric care at the hospital. The Government has invested significantly in paediatric care in CUH. Phase 1 of the paediatric department has been operational since 2017. Phase 2 will focus on the paediatric inpatient unit and will deliver 82 much-needed new and replacement inpatient paediatric beds. We continue to invest in and support that. It is very important that we get to the bottom of the situation relating to MRI scans. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  My understanding is that the eight consultants signed the letter. It was sent to the head of the HSE. They expressed serious concerns to the effect about delays and about the consequences of those delays. The headline of the article I read, and in respect of which I did some further checking, was \"Doctors at Cork hospital call for 'immediate action' to mitigate risk of 'preventable paediatric deaths'\". A headline like that will cause serious alarm for parents of children who are waiting. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  I could not agree more. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I raised this matter in order that assurances can be provided and that people can get access to care in a timely manner.  A question still arises as to why, previously, there was outsourcing or there were people coming in to do this work privately. That practice has now stopped. The argument being put forward by the consultants is that no additional staff have been taken on to deal with the vacuum that has been created and that, as a result, the list is going to grow and people are going to be waiting longer.  In relation to MRIs, where a concern is expressed by a GP or a medical consultant in relation to a child's health, if there is any delay, there may not be any going back because the treatment was not provided in a timely manner. Eight people at senior level would not sign such a letter unless there are genuine concerns about the waiting time. Whatever the issue is when it comes to providing care for children, it needs to be resolved. I fully understand that we are putting a huge amount of money into the new national children's hospital, and rightly so, but it is important that areas outside of Dublin are not left in limbo as regards people getting access to the care that is required. As a result, I ask that this issue be looked at. The Minister may not have all the answers this morning, but she might come back to me on the matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  I certainly will, and I could not agree with the Deputy more regarding the importance of resolving and identifying the issue and of making sure that children are getting the diagnostic scans they need. I could also not agree more with him regarding the importance of investing in paediatric care outside of Dublin. That is very important, and it is important to articulate it here this morning. I am in agreement with the Deputy in every possible way in relation to this matter.  I just want to figure out exactly what is going on and how this has come to be.  I should have said earlier that there are 269 children currently waiting for an MRI under general anaesthesia at CUH. Having an MRI under general anaesthesia requires a nurse and an anaesthetist as well as a radiologist. It is a more complicated team. I am aware that the south west has recruited ahead of everyone else. If there is a challenge in terms of where the resources are, it is one we have to figure out. Certainly, that area has recruited more than anybody else, so there should not be this issue. It may be that deployment is more the issue than availability. It is for me to figure that out and to get back to the Deputy. He is correct to raise the issue here today because we do not want children discriminated against in this way.  CUH has invested in a Smileyscope distraction system, which works to develop children's tolerance - where possible; it is not always possible - of MRI without anaesthetic. Instead of sedating children, two play therapists distract and keep them occupied during the MRI. We do not want to have to sedate children where it is possible to avoid it. Eight children have successfully completed the MRI through that approach without the need for general anaesthetic.  I thank the Deputy for raising this really important issue for children's care, including as it relates to resource deployment. I assure him that I will figure out what is going on and get back to him on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I thank the Minister. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Hospital Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Cost of Living: Motion [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":32,"speakerCount":24},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Guirke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Deputy Cian O\u2019Callaghan","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan. The Minister for Climate, Energy and the Environment has tabled an amendment to Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn's motion, as have Sinn F\u00e9in Members. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  I move:  That D\u00e1il Eireann:  notes that:  \u2014 Ireland is an outlier regarding the spiralling cost of living, and a Eurostat report this week showed we are the most expensive country for housing, health, energy and alcohol, overall prices are 36 per cent above the European Union average, with health costs in Ireland being 85 per cent higher than the European average;  \u2014 a study by Barnardos found that more than one-third of households went into arrears on energy bills in the last 12 months, with the Commission for Regulation of Utilities showing half a million people are behind on gas and electricity payments, and electricity prices are to rise from next week by 8 per cent, while gas goes up by 7.7 per cent;  \u2014 rents are also at record levels, as are evictions, in the wake of the Government's rent reforms, and a two-bed accommodation in Dublin is now almost \u20ac2,700 a month, while nationwide it is \u20ac2,176, which means it costs approximately \u20ac30,000 a year to rent here;  \u2014 the cost-of-living crisis is now mainstream, and families with two incomes are finding it hard to cope, with very little left over for emergencies;  \u2014 in the past five years grocery bills increased by 40 per cent, and that adds up to approximately \u20ac3,000 extra a year, for the same goods;  \u2014 since 2021, energy costs are up 57 per cent, diesel is up 60 per cent, a pint of stout is up 28 per cent, beef cuts for home-cooked stew are up 50 per cent, butter has risen 42 per cent, chicken breasts that were \u20ac5 in 2022 are now \u20ac12.98, steak has doubled in that time and eggs have gone up 35 per cent;  \u2014 this year, the Nevin Economic Research Institute found that Irish households pay around \u20ac360 more per year than the western European average for electricity, and it identified Ireland as a significant \"cost growth outlier\", as overall consumer prices have risen by 24 per cent over the past four years; and  \u2014 families across the country are working hard, yet barely keeping their heads above water;  recognises that:  \u2014 the Government has implemented measures that add to inflation and household bills;  \u2014 the Government refuses to halt the punitive increases in carbon tax and the M50 tolls;  \u2014 the Government collected \u20ac1.17 billion in carbon tax last year, the highest ever;  \u2014 carbon tax was supposed to be ringfenced for climate projects, but Aont\u00fa parliamentary questions found that a quarter of a billion euro of carbon tax revenue, nearly one fifth of it, went back into the State coffers in three years;  \u2014 39 per cent of the carbon tax either was directed to other non-climate projects, or went back to the Exchequer, proving it is not needed for its stated purpose;  \u2014 the National Oil Reserves Agency levy for the climate action fund found that \u20ac278 million, 70 per cent of it, was left sitting in the Government's bank account from 2020 to 2024;  \u2014 the Government took in \u20ac4.3 billion in fuel taxes last year alone;  \u2014 the Government seeks to increase diesel prices by 32 cents, and petrol by 27 cents, a litre on the 1st August;  \u2014 Irene Tinagli, Italian MEP, Economist and Chair of the European Parliament's Special Committee on the Housing Crisis, categorised Ireland's housing crisis as the \"most severe and complicated in Europe\";  \u2014 this year, the Government removed the rent cap for new builds and new tenancies for the objective of making the housing market more lucrative to investors, and the move failed to increase supply, but it resulted in increased rents and record evictions;  \u2014 the M50 has paid for itself 30 times over, yet toll fees were still increased this year, as it has taken in over \u20ac2.2 billion in revenue since 2008, and is now a tax on work;  \u2014 there is no reprieve for burdened customers with the ESB, as despite the semi-State company making supernormal profits of \u20ac650 million last year, half a million people are in energy arrears;  \u2014 the Deposit Re-turn Scheme was introduced in 2024, adding 25 cent and 15 cent per can and bottle onto consumers' shopping bills upfront at the till, and it is an amount in excess of most other European countries who have the same scheme;  \u2014 the scheme has put extra costs on the taxpayer since its inception, such as the half a million-euro cost of cleaning up Dublin from the scavenging it has caused, while the introduction of bottle holders around the bins to try and stop it cost \u20ac155,000 before being scrapped;  \u2014 the Government's waste is at levels never seen before, including the Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann \u20ac50 million Information Technology system failure that was written off, the recent \u20ac127,000 Health Service Executive (HSE) Kerry bike shed, following on from the infamous \u20ac336,000 Oireachtas bike shed, and another cost overrun is the National Children's Hospital that has seen its original estimate of \u20ac650 million increase to \u20ac2.24 billion and counting for the hospital, with no opening date;  \u2014 there is the \u20ac10 million being spent on Dublin City Council's Wood Quay offices, which are planned to be bulldozed in three years' time;  \u2014 the Metrolink, that started in the mid-2000s, should have cost \u20ac2 billion but is projected to cost \u20ac15.8 billion, and Ireland is the world leader when it comes to squandering public money, bad budgeting and bad planning;  \u2014 Government spending overruns have averaged \u20ac5 billion each year since 2023, and the International Federation of Accountants has strongly criticised the State for year-to-year budgeting, using unrealistic forecasts, and ignoring these overruns; and  \u2014 health accounts for more than 40 per cent of total current spending overruns, and capital infrastructure overruns hit \u20ac1.6 billion in one year; and  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 cancel the planned increase in fuel taxes on diesel of 32 cents, petrol of 27 cents, and green diesel of 2.4 cents per litre;  \u2014 remove the Value-Added Tax (VAT) from construction for a three-year period, as removing VAT from construction would reduce the average price of a house by an estimated \u20ac50,000 per house, and this is also a market activation initiative, as it would improve viability;  \u2014 reduce profits at semi-State ESB to zero, allow it to wash its face, cover its costs and invest, as this would save every household \u20ac300;  \u2014 reform the Deposit Re-turn Scheme, as the not-for-profit company running it has \u20ac103 million in unredeemed deposits in its accounts;  \u2014 bring in a solar panel grant scheme that is accessible for all, increase the grants for solar panels to 50 per cent for low-income families, and reduce it on a sliding scale to the current grant level for high income families;  \u2014 reintroduce the rent caps for new build and new tenancies, as rent caps should be set at the rate of inflation or 2 per cent;  \u2014 scrap the M50 toll;  \u2014 end increases in carbon tax;  \u2014 publish the profits in the grocery sector, as mandating the biggest supermarkets to publish their profits would not interfere with the market, but would bring transparency to the industry and benefit customer choice;  \u2014 introduce a \"heads will roll\" clause for senior civil servants, if they spend money in an irresponsible fashion, as there has to be a cost to their careers, up to and including losing their job;  \u2014 appoint a Minister of State in the Department of the Taoiseach, whose responsibility is to make sure, in real time, that capital projects are not overrunning in cost;  \u2014 audit non-governmental organisations that are being funded by the State, to ascertain if they are providing a benefit for citizens, and cut Government funding to those who are not providing a benefit for citizens;  \u2014 end the \u20ac5 billion of Government budget spending overruns;  \u2014 reduce the processing time for International Protection Accommodation Services applications, to reduce accommodation costs;  \u2014 introduce a 2-year recruitment moratorium in administration within the HSE, to rebalance staff numbers towards the front line;  \u2014 introduce output payments within the HSE, to ensure that the health service gets paid for the consultations, treatments, engagements and operations that are delivered to patients, as this would save money, incentivise hospitals to reduce the length of hospital waiting lists and reorientate staff numbers towards the front line; and  \u2014 increase the price of electricity to new data centres, as this would reduce household electricity prices.  Today, we in Aont\u00fa are using our Private Members' time to try to ease the burden on families throughout the country and make life affordable for them again. The primary aim of our motion is to stop the Government from increasing the price of petrol by 27 cent and the price of diesel by 32 cent between now and 1 December. Incredibly, it is the Government's plan to increase the price of petrol and diesel five times before the end of the year. It is a startling plan for any government to implement in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, when so many families are to the pin of their collar. One of those increases will be a carbon tax increase, which will likely be imposed after the budget. Aont\u00fa's motion seeks to stop the Government from increasing carbon tax. It is absolutely incredible that any government would raise fuel prices by so much during a cost-of-living crisis.  Much of the increased prices we pay in this country are as a result of Government actions. The Government is an architect of the cost-of-living crisis. It is implementing measures that are adding to inflation and household bills. I will give examples. The Fianna F\u00e1il-Fine Gael-Independents Government collected \u20ac1.17 billion in carbon tax last year, which is the highest ever, in the jaws of a cost-of-living crisis. This tax, which is now the biggest fuel tax in the country, hardly existed five years ago. The Government took \u20ac4.3 billion in fuel taxes alone last year. It is eye-watering stuff. The citizens of this country are being shaken down by way of these taxes.  Carbon tax was supposed to be ring-fenced for climate change projects. However, replies to parliamentary questions from Aont\u00fa show that in a three-year period, \u20ac250 million of carbon tax revenue, or nearly a fifth of the total, went back into the State's coffers. Over those three years, that amount of carbon tax money was directed to non-climate projects or went back to the Exchequer because it was not needed for the stated purpose.  The National Oil Reserves Agency, NORA, levy is another example of the Government assaulting consumers. Aont\u00fa has found out that \u20ac278 million, or 70% of the total revenue from the levy, was simply left sitting in a Government bank account between 2020 and 2024. The Government was collecting hundreds of millions of euro from hard-pressed consumers in this country for four years and simply could not find anything to do with the money. It is an incredible admission.  The M50 toll is another tax on workers. The bridges cost \u20ac53 million to build and the Government has collected billions of euro in tolls from drivers. The M50 has paid for itself 30 times over, yet the Government seeks to increase toll fees year on year.  Before the current excise cuts, the Government was collecting 60% of the price of petrol and diesel by way of taxes. It was collecting more in taxes than the total cost of drilling for that oil, extracting it and pumping it to the surface, taking it from the North Sea to a refinery, refining it and then taking it on a ship to Ireland, transporting it to a petrol station and selling it to consumers. All of that cost less than the Government was extracting by way of taxes on that fuel. We have a rip-off model in terms of the Government's approach to this issue, and it is wrong. The plan announced yesterday is simply to return to that rip-off model in the form of high levels of fuel taxes. The Government is tax-gouging families throughout the country, especially those in poverty and in energy arrears.  In relation to electric vehicles, EVs, the ESB, a semi-State company, is hiking up the price of charging at public charging spots. The figures are eye-watering. It will cost 73 cent per kWh to charge an EV in a public space, while drivers can charge their vehicle overnight for 7 cent per kWh. It will cost one tenth of the price to charge an EV at home. The Government says these taxes are designed to move people away from carbon usage and into sustainable types of transport systems. In this case, however, the ESB is incentivising petrol and diesel as fuel sources for travel. It is incredible.  Ireland is an outlier in terms of the spiralling cost of living. This week's Eurostat report showed we are the most expensive country for housing, health and energy in the EU. That damning finding is worth repeating: Ireland the most expensive country in the EU for housing, health and energy. Overall prices here are now 36% higher than the EU average. Health costs are 85% more than the European average. Indeed, Ireland now has the second most expensive electricity market on the planet for domestic users. The Government is achieving world records for all the wrong reasons in terms of the price of electricity. Barnardos has found that one third of Irish households went into arrears on energy bills in the past 12 months. That is astounding. According to the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, 500,000 Irish households are in arrears on gas and electricity bills.  What is the answer from the Government? It is to put electricity prices up today. A total of 1 million householders will pay \u20ac300 more on their annual electricity bills because of today's rise. The Government might say that ESB, including its Electric Ireland division, is a semi-State body. However, semi-State organisations operate on the basis of Government policy. In the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, this semi-State body is putting up the price of electricity today. The Nevin Economic Research Institute has stated that the average household in Ireland is paying \u20ac360 more for electricity than householders in other western European countries. That is because of the Government. The ESB is a semi-State body that operates on the basis of Government policy. Last year, it made \u20ac650 million in profits.  Can the Minister of State see the disconnect here? A semi-State body operating under Government policy made a profit of \u20ac650 million during a cost-of-living crisis that has seen 500,000 families go into arrears on their electricity bills. Does he not understand how morally wrong it is for a Government to operate on that basis? The situation is getting worse. Despite the extent of arrears, the electricity companies are raising their prices today. Tone-deaf semi-State bodies, blind to the hardship of customers, are operating on the basis of Government policy. The ESB is making a \u20ac300 profit per household, which is roughly the same as the difference between average electricity prices in Ireland and those in the rest of Europe.  The whole electricity market is a mess. The grid is creaking and unable to deal with the levels of renewables coming online at the moment. The data centres the Government is incentivising are sucking up all available electricity. We have bottlenecks, constraints and dispatch down notices, which mean we are now actually paying for wind farms in Ireland to switch off electricity output.  It is mind-bending stuff. We are paying for electricity companies not to produce electricity at certain times of day every single day.  Grocery bills are up 40%. It adds approximately \u20ac3,000 extra per family per year for exactly the same goods they were purchasing ten years ago. Families are paying, for example, 50% more for beef cuts, butter has risen by 42%, chicken breasts, which were \u20ac5 in 2022, are now \u20ac12.98, the price of steak has doubled and eggs have gone up 35%. This might seem small beer to Ministers on big wages but for many families struggling to provide nutrition for the children, this is a major mountain they have to climb daily.  The Government is simply adding to that. All of this cost-of-living crisis is happening at a time when the Government is incinerating money. This is the key point, in that we in Aont\u00fa have been very careful to show where the Government is wasting money and where money can be saved to pay for a reduction in certain taxes to make life easier for people. We have seen an incredible waste of money recently with the Re-turn scheme, which added 25 cent and 15 cent to cans and bottles. That is now leading to a \u20ac500,000 cost annually for clean-up in Dublin as a result of the scavenging from bins it is causing. Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann incinerated \u20ac50 million of taxpayers' money on an IT system that failed to work.  In the second part of my contribution, I will list all of the places where this Government is wasting money, where that money can be saved and where there is a facility to then reduce the price of energy for hard-pressed customers. There is absolutely no way this Government should proceed with five petrol and diesel price increases before the end of the year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  I am the Chairperson of the budgetary oversight committee. We have had many witnesses in over the past number of months. Yesterday, we had witnesses in who agreed with exactly what I and Independent Ireland have been saying. The Department of Finance does not talk to the Department of enterprise. The Department of Finance is responsible for divvying out the moneys but they all work separately. When it hands out bits and pieces, which it says is targeted, it does not cover everyone. The conclusion in our meeting yesterday, which was very good and informative, was if you keep doing the same thing over and over and there is no change, it is a sign of madness. The Government has got to learn from the sign of madness. It is doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result - vulnerable people suffer and the Government does not make change.  We have been talking about the carbon tax and protests. Five years ago in November 2021, I brought a truck up here when truckers were protesting about fuel costs. That was five years ago yet a few months ago not only truckers but farmers, businesses and homeowners all protested and the Government still has not listened. That is after five years. The Government has got it wrong. What does it pay its Departments for, if they do not know how to react to problems? The Government is reactive, not proactive. That is its biggest problem.  I have stood at Limerick Junction and at the Tipperary and Charleville shows - I stand at shows every year meeting people. Of all the shows I have gone to, I have never seen as many people coming to me with their concerns. They were all Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael all their lives. It is not only young people coming to me but it is all age groups, even people who have retired. I was at a mass at the graves of deceased family members. The last man who came up to me as I was leaving was in his eighties. He said, \"Richard, what are they doing up there?\" If the Government has lost all those people who stood beside it all the years and they can see the Government is getting it wrong, why can it not? They see their children and grandchildren suffering because of the people they put in here and now they are embarrassed because the Government is not learning. Why is it not learning? Why is it targeting the most vulnerable people in this country?  The Government made \u20ac1.7 billion extra this year in fossil fuel taxes. The vehicles in this country are mostly from between 2010 and 2018. People are lucky to keep the vehicles they have on the road but the Government has no problem bringing in inferior food from other countries and wants the quality to stay the same here. This is what the Government has done in this country - it has forgotten the very people who put them here and put their trust in them and it is taxing them out of existence.  The most badly off people are the squeezed middle, the working people, people who get up every morning and go to bed late at night. The Government does not look after them. It penalises them for working rather than giving them some bit of a reward. The harder they work, the more they are penalised by the Government. If two people in a household work, they are penalised twice as much as are their children. That is what this Government has stood for. The people are changing in Ireland and it is now showing on the ground. I thank them for that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  When we discuss the cost-of-living crisis, we need to move beyond the headlines and focus on the reality facing households. The Government points to falling inflation rates as evidence the crisis is easing but inflation measures the speed at which prices are rising. It does not mean prices are returning to previous levels. According to analysis of CSO data, the reality is that overall consumer prices are approximately 24% higher than they were five years ago. Families carry the cumulative impact of five years of rising costs. The increases have been most severe in the areas people cannot avoid. Electricity prices are up 62% since 2021, natural gas prices have more than doubled and home heating fuels have increased by over 60%. They are not luxury expenses; they are basic necessities of life. Food prices continue to increase year after year. Food inflation reached 5.1% in 2025 while the price of many everyday grocery items increased substantially. Families see these increases every week as they pay for their shopping. At the same time, the Government continues to speak about economic growth, strong tax revenues and budget surpluses. If the public finances are so healthy, why are so many working households struggling to get ahead? That is the question the Government cannot answer.  One area where relief can be provided immediately is through the abolition of the universal social charge. Independent Ireland has consistently argued that the USC has outlived whatever purpose it may once have served. Just last week, Councillor Danny Collins tabled a motion before Cork County Council calling for its abolition. His point was straightforward - the USC was introduced in 2011 as a temporary measure. Fifteen years later, workers continue to pay it despite repeated promises it would be reduced or abolished. The State collects between \u20ac4 billion and \u20ac5 billion every year through the USC. Meanwhile, families deal with rising housing costs, childcare and fuel costs and energy bills. Independent Ireland believes workers should keep more of the money they earn. That starts with the abolition of the USC. Independent Ireland believes in rewarding people who work but this Government and some in opposition believe in punishing those who work or create employment.  The same principle applies to carbon tax. For years, many of us warned carbon tax would increase the cost of everyday living. We were told we were wrong yet today we see the impact. Motorists pay approximately \u20ac1.85 per litre for petrol and \u20ac1.88 per litre for diesel. More than half what motorists pay at the pumps consists of tax, levies and charges. Taxes account for approximately 58% of the price of petrol and 52% of the price of diesel. That is why communities across Ireland witnessed fuel protests. Ordinary hardworking people took the streets because they believed Government policy was making life more expensive and they could not afford to continue. They were not asking for special treatment; they were asking for common sense.  Housing remains another major contributor to the cost-of-living crisis. The Government will point to more than 36,000 homes being completed in 2025. While that increase is welcome, affordability remains the real issue. Residential property prices have increased by 7.3% in the year to October 2025, with a median dwelling price reaching \u20ac381,000. For many young couples and single workers trying to purchase their first homes, those figures place home ownership further out of reach. The Government talks constantly about supply, but people judge housing policy by whether they can afford to buy a home or pay their rent.  Childcare is another example of the gap between promises and delivery. Families are repeatedly promised affordable childcare. Parents were told that costs would reduce significantly, yet many families continue to pay hundreds of euro every month simply to go to work. The aspiration was commendable; the delivery has been lacking.  I wish to address what has become one of the worst examples of public sector mismanagement in the history of the State, the national children's hospital. The Minister for Health recently stated on Gavan Reilly's programme that there should be between 500 and 600 workers on site at the project, but when she asked to see all these workers, she said, \"They declined.\" You could not make it up. Let us consider that for a moment. This project began with an expected cost of less than \u20ac1 billion. It is now projected to cost well over \u20ac2 billion. It has become the most expensive hospital project in the history of the State and probably the world.  Electricity from Electric Ireland is going up by 8% today. We have not been able to bring the electricity companies to task in this country. They can just put up the electricity to any price. For those who have solar panels, and some are lucky enough to have them even though the grant is shockingly bad, tell me that what they are getting from Electric Ireland is not going to rise. Electric Ireland will put up the charge if we are using the electricity, therefore, but it will screw over the ordinary hard-working person who has put money into their home and put up solar panels. We are not fighting for renewables and to give people that opportunity or bonus by having renewables in their homes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan)  I move amendment No. 1:  To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:  \"notes that the Government:  \u2014 remains deeply concerned about the conflict in the Middle East and Gulf region;  \u2014 is acutely aware of the impact on households and businesses of the recent increases in the cost of living, and is actively monitoring the current geopolitical situation and its impact on costs;  \u2014 affirms that affordability is a priority for this Government; and  \u2014 has taken action to help households and businesses with the cost of fuel and energy, by introducing one of the most comprehensive support packages in the European Union (EU);  affirms that:  \u2014 the Government is deeply aware of the pressures placed on households and businesses by cost-of-living pressures;  \u2014 the National Energy Affordability Taskforce (NEAT) was established in June 2025, to identify, assess and implement measures that will enhance energy affordability for households and businesses, while delivering key renewables commitments and protecting security of supply and economic stability;  \u2014 in recent months, the Government introduced a \u20ac750 million package of fuel supports, which is among the largest per capita of any EU state;  \u2014 these measures have been further extended until 1st September, 2026, at an estimated cost of \u20ac270 million;  \u2014 the Value-Added Tax (VAT) rate on electricity bills has been reduced to 9 per cent, until 2030;  \u2014 enhanced social protection payments have been introduced, including an increase to the fuel allowance rate, and an expansion of the eligibility rules;  \u2014 successive budgets have provided targeted support to help households with cost-of-living pressures;  \u2014 the NEAT continues to work intensively on an energy affordability action plan to be submitted to the Government in quarter 3 of this year;  \u2014 this action plan will be focused on short-, medium- and long-term measures, to support households and businesses to meet energy costs;  \u2014 the action plan will be built on four key pillars:  \u2014 addressing the price;  \u2014 sustainable demand and enhancing flexibility;  \u2014 addressing energy poverty and customer protections; and  \u2014 energy affordability for businesses;  \u2014 this will be a crucial element of the Government's work to improve competitiveness, complementing the current Action Plan on Competitiveness and Productivity;  \u2014 a range of protections are in place for customers experiencing difficulties in paying their bills, including through the Department of Social Protection, who can provide support through the Additional Needs Payment, to help households meet expenses, including those who face difficulties with fuel bills;  \u2014 a record capital budget of \u20ac640 million, including \u20ac558 million from carbon tax receipts, has been allocated to the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, supporting 73,000 home energy upgrades to make homes warmer, healthier and more comfortable, with lower emissions and lower bills;  \u2014 the allocation also includes a record \u20ac340 million for the Warmer Homes Scheme, which provides fully funded upgrades for those in energy poverty and is targeting 11,500 upgrades this year;  \u2014 Ireland has legally binding targets for the collection and recycling of polyethylene terephthalate (PET) bottles, and the Deposit Re-turn Scheme is ensuring we meet those targets;  \u2014 the fully refundable deposit amount balances affordability with incentivising consumers to return the empty container, and the return rate of nearly 77 per cent shows that this is working;  \u2014 under the EU accounting framework, reporting and disclosure obligations are determined primarily by the size of a company, with different requirements applying to micro-, small-, medium-sized and large undertakings, reflecting the principle that reporting obligations should be proportionate to the scale of the business, and is applied consistently across the EU;  \u2014 accordingly, grocery retailers are subject to the same accounting and disclosure requirements as other companies of a comparable size, and companies operating in Ireland, including those connected with other EU member states, are subject to harmonised reporting frameworks under EU law;  \u2014 any proposal to introduce additional reporting obligations, for a particular sector, would therefore need to be considered in the context of Ireland's obligations under the EU accounting framework, and the existing size-based system of corporate reporting;  \u2014 Budget 2026 reduced the VAT rate for the construction and supply of qualifying apartments and apartment blocks, from 13.5 per cent to 9 per cent, until the end of 2030, as part of a social policy to deliver higher density housing;  \u2014 a 0 per cent VAT rate may be applied to a maximum of seven of any of the categories included under Annex III of the EU VAT Directive, however, as Ireland already applies the 0 per cent rate to the maximum number of categories, there is no scope to expand this to the construction of new housing;  \u2014 the national housing plan, Delivering Homes, Building Communities 2025-2030, contains a suite of measures to support domestic and international investment in the delivery of new rental properties, in particular, the supply of new apartments;  \u2014 the recently enacted Residential Tenancies (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2026, provides improved security of tenure for tenants, while also encouraging more private investment in the rental market; and  \u2014 the Act, effective from 1st March, 2026, introduced a national system of rent control, with rent increases to be capped by inflation, measured by the Consumer Price Index, and in times of high inflation, rent increases are capped at a maximum of 2 per cent; and  further notes that:  \u2014 the latest Eurostat report, comparing electricity prices across the EU, outlines that Ireland had the 5th highest for household electricity prices in the second half of 2025, when adjusted to take account of the 'Purchasing Power Standard', i.e., practical affordability, taking account of household income and so on;  \u2014 the most recent report from the Commission for Regulation of Utilities shows that 319,000 (14 per cent) of domestic electricity customers were in arrears in March, unchanged since December, and that a much lower 8 per cent (184,000) of domestic electricity customers were in arrears for over 90 days, approximately the same level as May 2025;  \u2014 the four biggest energy retailers have confirmed that hardship funds and focused measures are in place, for any customers in difficulty;  \u2014 switching energy supplier or plan could save the average electricity customer up to \u20ac500 annually;  \u2014 the Government has also established the NEAT, to identify, assess and implement measures that will enhance energy affordability for households and businesses, while delivering key renewable commitments, and protecting security of supply and economic stability;  \u2014 the Government remains committed to ensuring that low-income households benefit from Ireland's renewable energy transition, and will continue to explore how best to integrate solar and other technologies into our energy poverty retrofit programmes;  \u2014 carbon tax funds are allocated for expenditure on measures including the continuation of a national retrofitting programme, investment in community energy efficiency measures, and funding for greener farming practices, as part of Ireland's climate policy and our aim to reach net-zero by 2050;  \u2014 the temporary deferral of the 1st May carbon tax increase will result in lower carbon tax revenues of \u20ac22 million in 2026;  \u2014 neither the Government, nor the Minister for Transport, have a direct role in the setting of M50 toll rates, as these are instead governed by statutory byelaws, and are managed by Transport Infrastructure Ireland;  \u2014 additionally, toll revenues from the M50 are fully reinvested in the operation, maintenance, protection and renewal of the national road network, and abolishing the M50 toll would cost the \u20ac250 million in revenues that would instead have to be raised from general taxation;  \u2014 recruitment within the Health Service Executive is complex and has been devolved to regional structures, who are best placed to assess service needs and prioritise posts, and a recruitment pause would directly undermine this approach and could result in increased reliance on agency staff, ultimately driving up costs rather than reducing them, and thereby restricting the funding for hiring more front-line staff;  \u2014 the Government is already progressing a significant reform programme, to link healthcare funding more directly to the level of activity delivered to patients through implementation of Activity Based Funding (ABF), which represents a fundamental shift in how hospital budgets are set;  \u2014 a structured implementation plan is in place, with shadow ABF processes being rolled out across 2026\u20132027, allowing funding models to be tested and refined before full implementation from 2028;  \u2014 achieving value for money must be sought at all stages of policy formation, and it is the responsibility of every Minister, public and civil servants within all Departments;  \u2014 earlier this year, the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation published Circular 21\/2026 Expenditure Control and Escalation Processes, this sets out the various phases of an expenditure control escalation process for use across Government, and the corrective steps that may be implemented where expenditure risks and overruns are identified, and this new escalation process will strengthen effective budget oversight through enhanced governance and a focus on value for money, ensuring that expenditure ceilings are credible and deliver effectively on Programme for Government commitments; and  \u2014 this builds on Value for Money Circular 18\/2025, which highlighted the roles and responsibilities in the delivery of value for money, as well as the robust guidance, codes of practice, and circulars underpinned by legislation, and informed by best practice in the pursuit of value for money, and it is the responsibility of the Accounting Officer for each Department to ensure that they manage expenditure sustainably, and in accordance with this allocation.\".  I speak on behalf of the Government on this wide-ranging motion regarding the cost of living. I reiterate that the Government opposes this motion and puts forward its own countermotion. The proposed countermotion outlines and affirms that energy affordability is a priority of this Government and highlights the significant supports that have been provided by the Government to help households and businesses with the cost of fuel and energy, including the introduction of one of the most comprehensive support packages in the EU. The conflicts in the Middle East and Ukraine have caused significant disruption to global energy markets. The Government is also very aware and concerned about the pressures placed on households and businesses while high energy costs are rising due to the conflict. Providing supports to alleviate this pressure has and will continue to be a priority. We have taken action to help households and businesses with the cost of fuel and energy, such as the expanded fuel allowance, tax reductions on energy and significantly expanded retrofitting programmes.  On 12 April, the Government agreed a \u20ac500 million package of fuel supports. This is in addition to the initial \u20ac250 million in targeted supports announced in March. These packages are among the largest per capita interventions in any EU member state. Key measures introduced include a reduction in excise on petrol, diesel and marked gas oil, MGO. When taken with the reduction in the NORA levy, that means 32 cent off a litre of diesel, 27 cent off a litre of petrol and 7.4 cent off MGO. There is a deferral of the planned increase in carbon tax scheduled for 1 May until the budget and an increase in the maximum repayment amount available under the diesel rebate scheme for qualifying road haulage and bus transport operators from 5.7 cent to 12 cent per litre for quarter 1 and quarter 2 of 2026. We have also developed a new \u20ac120 million road transporter support scheme, as well as supports for coach operators providing Local Link services. A \u20ac100 million fuel subsidy support scheme for farmers, agricultural contractors and fishers has also been opened. These measures were introduced on a temporary basis to provide some relief from fuel price inflation.  As stated at the time of the interventions in March and April, the Government reserves the right to review and alter the policy approach, as necessary. Accordingly, the Government has continued to actively monitor all relevant strands of information, including global energy market dynamics and domestic retail pricing trends. Following this review, the Government announced an updated approach on 30 June. This approach is informed by very significant reductions in crude oil prices, as well as retail fuel prices, over recent weeks. It is therefore appropriate to begin the process of reversing the temporary reductions in mineral oil tax. It is important to emphasise that there will be no cliff-edge effects for consumers; rather, the restoration of pre-March 2025 mineral oil tax rates will be done in a gradual and phased way.  The motion also calls for an end to increases in carbon tax. However, as Deputies will be aware, carbon tax is a core part of Ireland\u2019s climate policy and our aim to reach net zero by 2050. The need for society and the economy to decouple from fossil fuel dependence is even more apparent now given the volatility of international fuel markets. The best way of insulating our economy and society from fuel prices shocks is to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Carbon tax funds are allocated for expenditure on measures that will achieve this, including the continuation of a national retrofitting programme, investment in community energy efficiency measures and funding the greener farming practices. The benefit of carbon tax is obvious, with 2026 seeing a record capital budget of \u20ac640 million, including \u20ac558 million from carbon tax receipts, allocated to the SEAI residential and community energy grant schemes. This allocation will support 73,000 home energy upgrades to make homes warmer, healthier and more comfortable, with lower emissions and lower bills. The allocation also includes a record \u20ac340 million for the warmer homes scheme, which provides fully funded upgrades for those in energy poverty and is targeting 11,500 upgrades this year. A total of 53% of the allocation for SEAI residential and community schemes in 2026 is for the warmer homes scheme.  It is important to note that the fuel supports announced this year build on the suite of measures to assist households with cost-of-living pressures announced as part of budget 2026. A total of \u20ac28.9 billion will be spent on social protection in 2026, including over \u20ac1.15 billion of new measures targeted to assist households. The measures contained in the budget are designed to support the most vulnerable in our society with the cost of living and there is a particular focus on tackling child poverty. The package includes the largest child support payment increase in the history of the State, with a weekly increase of \u20ac16 to \u20ac78 for children aged 12 and over, which is a 26% increase, and a weekly increase of \u20ac8 to \u20ac58 for children under 12 years, which is a 16% increase. This brings the total annual value of the child support payment to \u20ac3,016 for each child under the age of 12 and \u20ac4,056 for each child over 12.  Record increases were announced in respect of the carer\u2019s allowance income disregard, with an increase of \u20ac375 to \u20ac1,000 for a single person and an increase of \u20ac750 to \u20ac2,000 for a couple. The income limit for carer\u2019s benefit will also increase by \u20ac375 to \u20ac1,000 per week. This change will take effect from this month. Also included in the budget package were across-the-board increases of \u20ac10 per week to maximum personal payment rates, benefiting people such as pensioners, people with disabilities, carers and lone parents, with proportionate increases for people receiving a reduced payment rate and qualified adults. These changes took effect from January.  The budget package also provided significant supports to help householders with the cost of heating and other energy bills. The fuel allowance increased by \u20ac5 to \u20ac38 per week and, for the first time, families receiving the working family payment now qualify for the fuel allowance. In addition, people moving from disability allowance or the blind pension to take up work will retain their fuel allowance for five years. The budget also included an extension of the 9% VAT rate that applies to gas and electricity. The wide array of measures clearly demonstrates the huge focus the Government has placed on assisting ordinary people and families with the cost of living.  In addition to the wide-ranging support already provided by the Government, we recognise that more needs to be done to help households and businesses that are under pressure as a result of increasing energy prices. The cross-government national energy affordability task force, NEAT, will play a key role in that regard. The task force is preparing an energy affordability action plan as well as co-ordinating the national response to the energy shock arising from the conflict in the Middle East. This structure will ensure a co-ordinated and coherent response to the energy crisis that is aligned with the programme for Government commitments and longer term action on energy affordability.  The report of the task force, which included measures for consideration in budget 2026 including those I mentioned earlier, was published last November. The task force is now working intensively on the preparation of an energy affordability action plan, which will be completed in quarter 3 of 2026. The action plan will examine cost drivers in the energy sector and identify short-, medium- and long-term measures to enhance the affordability of energy for households and businesses. The action plan will be built on four key pillars: addressing the price of energy, sustainable demand and enhancing flexibility, addressing energy poverty and customer protections, and energy affordability for businesses. Intensive work on the action plan by NEAT subgroups, for example those on energy demand and grid financing, assisted by external advisory support, will continue over the coming weeks.  This work will be supported by a process of engagement with relevant stakeholders. This will ensure that EAAP priorities are shaped by public and stakeholder input and remain responsive, inclusive and grounded in lived experience. A targeted stakeholder consultation has taken place on tackling energy poverty. This follows on from a recent meeting with representatives from the community and voluntary pillar such as Age Action Ireland, the National Women's Council of Ireland and the environmental pillar in respect of their proposals on energy poverty.  Consultation sessions with business groups and the Electricity Association of Ireland, EAI, and retail electricity suppliers have also been held. In addition, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, has engaged with the four biggest energy retailers in recent months to ensure that hardship funds and focused measures are in place for any customers in difficulty. It is important to note that the Department of Social Protection can also provide support through the additional needs payment to help households to meet expenses, including those who face difficulty with fuel bills.  The Government has introduced substantial support during this volatile period. Supports are timely and necessary and we will continue to monitor the situation closely. In the remaining minute I will add, because very little was alluded to on this in the initial contributions from the Opposition, that the key most fundamental way we can reduce energy prices for the people of Ireland is by ramping up renewable energy. It is as simple as this: the higher the proportion of our energy needs or fuel needs that are met by fossil fuels, then the higher our prices will be. It is simple maths. Our fuel and the cost of electricity, the cost of energy, is directly linked and tied to the cost of a barrel of crude oil. We have to step away from that. We have to ramp up solar and wind generation. However, we can only do that if people get behind it. The Deputies who are contributing and criticising the Government for energy prices are the same Deputies who will object to renewables and to solar and object to alternative forms of energy. It is a fact. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  The data centres are doing that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan  The Opposition would prefer to lead us down a path that we cannot come back from and tie us into fossil fuels forever which is only going to continue to lead to increased energy prices. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  I thank my colleagues in Aont\u00fa for their work on this motion and thank the Deputies for their contributions today. The fact is that the point raised by the Minister of State a few moments ago is actually untrue. This Government has a policy of increasing the number of data centres. For every new wind or solar development the vast majority of that additional capacity is going to data centres. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan  Says yer man with the laptop. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  Let us not mislead the House here. It is important that we say that from the outset. The truth is that Ireland is an outlier in terms of the cost of living in the country at the moment. We are the most expensive country in Europe for housing, health, energy and alcohol. Is the Minister of State going to blame the Opposition for the disasters of health and the cost of housing? The Government has presided over this. It is time the Minister of State owned this. Overall prices are 36% higher in Ireland than in the rest of the European Union. Health costs are about 85% higher in Ireland than they are elsewhere in the European Union. One third of households went into arrears in the past 12 months. That equates to more than 300,000 people. Since 2021, energy is up 57%. During that time there has been an increase in renewables. Can the Minister of State explain that? Diesel is up 60%. Much of that increase is due to geopolitics but there is also the fact that the Government is gouging in terms of taxation, which accounts for the majority of what we pay at the pump. That is the truth. We are being overcharged. A significant amount of what we are being overcharged is as a result of Government policy on the high cost of energy. Built into the carbon tax is that very policy. The Government wants to increase the cost of fuel, increase the cost of diesel and petrol, irrespective of the cost at the pump. That is what the Government voted for. We in Aont\u00fa did not. In 2021 we did not support the climate action Bill because we knew what it would lead to.  In relation to carbon tax, last year the Government collected \u20ac1.1 billion in carbon tax, the highest tax on record. This year the Government is on track to take in \u20ac200 million more in carbon tax, despite the fact that there has been a reduction in tax due based on the price increases that were due to take place. The Taoiseach constantly outlines that we need this tax for retrofitting and for climate measures. However, the numbers state that between 2020 and 2023 half a billion euro in carbon tax was unspent. It was returned to the Exchequer. Meanwhile, the Government is continually increasing the carbon tax, despite the fact it cannot be spent.  I have spoken to so many families who applied for and were approved for SEAI grants but because there is such a constraint in terms of labour, they are waiting for two or three years for that work to take place. A significant conversation needs to be had in relation to the constraints in terms of the labour force and the effect it is also having in terms of the development of homes.  The National Oil Reserves Agency, NORA, levy is another tax on fuel and it goes into the climate action fund. Since 2020, the climate action fund has been in surplus by almost \u20ac300 million. Since the start of this crisis the Government has been misleading us all. It is time it was called out on this. When it was first announced, the Government rolled out a package. At first, it was a \u20ac500 million package, then it was a \u20ac700 million package. The cost of this was not cost in terms of income forgone. It was a hypothetical figure. All the additional costs being brought forward, the increases in carbon tax, were added to it. Then the Government went to the people and said we are great and wanted a clap on the back. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I acknowledge Aont\u00fa for tabling this motion in good faith. It names a crisis that is biting every man, woman and child in this country. Families with two incomes are working harder than their parents ever did and having less to show for it. Grocery bills are up 40%, energy bills are up nearly 60% and rent is at a level unthinkable ten years ago. The diagnosis, like much of this motion, is correct. However, the correct diagnosis followed by the wrong prescription does not cure the patient.  The hard truth this House must face is that the policies that brought us into this mess are the wrong ones to sort it out. For 15 years, we have been governed by an economic instinct that treats the citizen's wallet as the State's first resort and last reserve. Tax it, levy it, surcharge it, toll it and then families buckle under it. Government members will scratch their heads and wonder why. It offers a one-off cheque for Christmas and call it some sort of compensation. That is not compensation. It is a Government picking your pockets and handing you back the bus fare. That is what the Government has done on a regular basis.  Let me offer two solutions to get to the root of this symptom. The first is the universal social charge, USC, which was introduced in 2011 as an emergency measure, brought in from the wrecking and crashing of the economy by the Fianna F\u00e1il Administration and sold to this country as temporary. Now, 15 years later, the emergency is well and truly over but the tax remains. It is the most cynical levy in our system because the tax credit cannot touch it. It is charged at almost the top gross income on the first euro. A worker earning \u20ac50,000 hands over more than \u20ac1,000 in USC alone. The self-employed, who are the drivers of our economy, who take the risks, who create jobs and who, when something happens to them or they are sick, are not entitled to any social welfare, are taxed at a rate of 11% on top. Independent Ireland's answer is plain: abolish the USC. Do not tinker with a tax band or two, do not shave half a percent off a rate here and there and issue a press release. Abolish the universal social charge and let every worker in this country keep what they earn. That is a real payment structure relief - money in the pocket of every nurse, every electrician and every shop assistant every week of this year.  For those in this House who will ask how we will pay for that, I would say look at your own motions, the things that have been brought to this House: MetroLink, costing \u20ac15.8 billion; and a children's hospital that has quadrupled in cost to \u20ac5 billion in overruns since 2023. You do not fund a tax cut on the back of workers but by ending wasteful spending. Wasteful spending is something the Government is very good at doing.  The second solution is energy, and the Minister of State mentioned that himself. The contradiction he failed to mention is the Irish policy laid before us. We have some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. In 2021 the Government legislated for a ban on all new oil and gas exploration in our waters. It chose deliberately to keep the resources in the ground. We are aware that the Corrib gas field is running dry. By 2030, the Government's own figures have told us that the country will import over 90% of gas, almost all through pipelines from the United Kingdom. We are one of only a handful of EU states that has no gas storage of its own.  The Minister of State is talked about renewable energies and how important they are. Nobody on this side of the House, and certainly in Independent Ireland, objects to renewable energy but we realise the importance and the reality that we are going to be dependent on fossil fuels for another 20 to 40 years. We can face the facts and deal in reality, unlike the Government. The Government chose not to open or explore Barryroe, knowing there are hundreds of millions of barrels of oil there. It will not even allow the exploration of it and has chosen not to look at it. The Government intends to import energy from France and Spain. That is not renewable energy, which the Minister of State knows as well as I do. He is denying that. His environmental policy is dressed up as virtue. That is the reality of it. He can talk and virtue-signal about renewable energies all he wants, and nobody is objecting to that, but he has to realise there are other energies as well that we are heavily dependent on in this country. The Government has to lift the ban and look at our energy security. Energy security is national security. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I move amendment No. 1 to amendment No. 1:  To insert the following after \"expenditure sustainably, and in accordance with this allocation\":  \"; and  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 recognise that increasing diesel by 34 cents and petrol by 29 cents a litre before the end of the year will put unjustifiable pressure on workers and families already struggling with the cost-of-living crisis;  \u2014 rule out any increase in excise duty prior to budget day and conditional on a review of the market conditions at that time; and  \u2014 introduce energy credits of \u20ac400 per household in direct response to the record number of households unable to pay their energy bills.\".  Cuirim f\u00e1ilte roimh an r\u00fan seo ar an chostas maireacht\u00e1la. T\u00e1 leas\u00fa curtha s\u00edos ag Sinn F\u00e9in ar an m\u00e9id at\u00e1 curtha chun tosaigh ag an Rialtas. T\u00e1 an Rialtas ag iarraidh orainn taca\u00edocht a thabhairt don mh\u00e9id at\u00e1 curtha chun tosaigh aige, is \u00e9 sin, go n-ard\u00f3far praghas an d\u00edosail 34 cent agus praghas an pheitril 29 cent idir seo agus an Nollaig. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 dodh\u00e9anta. Nil glacadh ag gn\u00e1thdhaoine na t\u00edre leis seo mar t\u00e1 a fhios acu go bhfuil br\u00fa millteanach orthu. Ba ch\u00f3ir don Rialtas faoiseamh a thabhairt do dhaoine at\u00e1 ag streachailt amuigh ansin, in \u00e1it a bheith ag cur n\u00edos br\u00fa agus ualaigh ar a gcuid guaill\u00ed. Is \u00e9 sin an rud at\u00e1 ag tarl\u00fa inniu. Seasann Sinn F\u00e9in go huile is go hioml\u00e1n ina \u00e9adan sin. N\u00edor ch\u00f3ir go mbeadh praghas an pheitril agus d\u00edosail ag ard\u00fa le linn an tsamhraidh agus n\u00edor ch\u00f3ir go mbeadh s\u00e9 ag dul suas an m\u00e9id is at\u00e1 an Rialtas ag iarraidh.  Today households across the State are hit with blow after blow. This has been a continuous situation for the past number of years with costs rising, whether in our supermarkets, for rents, for insurance or the costs of the basics, just to get by. Today is a dark day for people because over a million households will see their electricity rise. I heard the Minister of State say that his Minister sat down with the electricity companies and energy generators. What was the response? It was double-digit increases in gas and electricity, kicking in today. That is going to really hurt people.  Today is the day the European Commission decided that the Irish people should pay more tax. Every single person who now buys a product from outside the European Union will be hit by a \u20ac3 charge as of today, another ridiculous situation and disastrous policy introduced by the Commission, which our Government has refused to stand up against despite them now taking on the prestigious position of the EU Presidency.  Today is the day the Government has come forward with its amendment and asked us that we pat it on the back for the job it thinks it is doing. More importantly, the amendment asks us to support the idea that it would increase the price of diesel by 34 cent between now and Christmas and the price of petrol by 29 cent between now and Christmas. Are the Minister of State and the Cabinet Ministers who sat around the table yesterday morning and decided this was a good idea not listening to people? I ask that genuinely. Are they not talking to people in their own constituencies? Do they not hear the concerns of people who cannot pay their electricity bills and the concerns of those who work every hour that God sends them yet still find it tough to make ends meet at the end of the week? Do they not hear people talking about how the shopping trolley has got more expensive? How under God can they sit at a Cabinet table and decide to bring forward a proposal that will increase the price of diesel by 34 cent between now and Christmas? It is simply outrageous. It should not happen. It is absolutely tone deaf to the concerns, frustration and worries of the Irish people right across the State. That is why Sinn F\u00e9in has tabled an amendment to the amendment to demand that the Government does not proceed with these increases at the scale and timeframe it has proposed.  We do not have to be like this. Ireland does not have to be the country that has got the highest taxes on petrol and diesel across the European Union. Ireland does not have to be the country that charges the highest electricity costs across the European Union. Ireland does not need to be the country where we charge some of the highest rents in the European Union. A different type of Ireland is possible. It requires a Government that listens, understand and takes action to meet the needs of ordinary people. A Government's responsibility at a time of pressure on its citizens is to lift the burden off them, not do what was decided yesterday at Cabinet, namely to place more burden on the shoulders of ordinary Irish people over the next four months when it will get away with it. It is simply wrong.  The Government is kicking the can down the road but the end result is the same. The end result we are being asked to support here is a 34 cent increase in diesel, pushing the price of diesel well beyond \u20ac2 and the price of petrol up another 29 cent. The Government is not even finished at that because it plans to increase it again next year and in the years after that. It is absolutely reckless and bound by this notion that if we increase the price of diesel and petrol, if we make it so hard and so expensive for people just to get into their cars and drive up that road, they might all go and buy an electric car. People in my constituency do not have the \u20ac40,000 or \u20ac50,000 to buy new electric cars. The Government needs to get real here. This cannot go ahead. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  The cost-of-living crisis is hitting my constituency of Galway West incredibly hard. In this Chamber I have raised countless examples of families in Galway under unbearable pressure from the cost of living. Working people cannot make their wages stretch to cover soaring rents, crippling energy bills and the ever-increasing cost of their weekly shop. Crucially, rents are now up in Galway by 18%. That means that rents are rising more than four times faster than wages. This Government knows that this is completely and utterly unsustainable. Even the Taoiseach admitted that very few people can afford rents in Galway but still he refused to act. The Government votes against every single proposal we put forward to ease pressures on renters. If the Government were serious about tackling the cost-of-living crisis, it would ban rent increases effective immediately. It would end no-fault evictions and ramp up housing supply by actually building social and affordable homes.  No matter how many stories are raised in this Chamber of working people, struggling families and fractured communities in desperate need of help with the cost-of-living crisis, the Government fails to act. The Government should be listening to these families and communities who are the backbone of our economy. Instead, it takes its advice from a select few economists who pat it on the back and tell it that it has built a strong, booming economy that is performing very well for the wealthiest in our society.  Two weeks ago, some of our most senior economists sounded the alarm bells. The Central Bank published a quarterly bulletin. Its revised forecast shows that the cost-of-living crisis will go up even further than it expected this year. These forecasts show that prices are not just going up, they are going up faster than wages. The Central Bank is crystal clear. Under this Government, people are getting poorer. The Central Bank is telling us that real wages are dropping. That means people are going to struggle even more than they have been up to this point.  There is no point in everybody coming into this Chamber during the winter months to talk about this at a time when parents cannot put food on the table or heat their homes. When that happens, everybody cries out and says, \"Oh my god. Isn't that terrible\". We told the Minister of State that this would happen. It is not only that we are telling him it is happening; statistics constantly show that people are falling into poverty because of the political choices being made.  This is on the Government. Rents and the housing crisis are getting worse. That is a direct result of the Government's policies as opposed to anybody else's. It is high time that the Government started listening to the other people in this Chamber, because what it is doing is terrible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn  It is not lost on the Irish people that the electricity credits were removed as soon as the general election was over. People received those credits as they prepared to vote. The cynicism behind what was done was off the scale. The Government only decided to reduce excise duty when there were strong protests across the State. The people I saw protesting in Donegal are the salt of the earth. They are responsible for delivering goods and producing food . To quote Leo Varadkar back in the day, they are the people who get up early in the morning and keep the country running. It was those people who were out protesting in desperation. Only after that did the Government introduce cuts to excise duty. It now proposes to increase excise duty again - to sneak it back in - while the D\u00e1il is in recess. People who are trying to get by in this country face being charged \u20ac2 per litre for diesel and petrol. You can imagine what we will face in the winter if that is where the Government goes with this. I ask it to reflect very hard on what is proposed.  People who say that carbon tax should not be increased are attacked by the Government. The reality for those living in a place like Donegal is that, in the main, they do not have the option to drive electric vehicles. People are not choosing to purchase petrol and diesel. Those in a place like Donegal have to have it in order to get by, to get to college and to get to work in order to earn a living. People are being penalised for choices they are not in a position to make. People do not have the resources to retrofit their homes because the costs involved are huge. Older people in particular cannot afford it. That is why there is heavy reliance on home heating oil in places like Donegal. The Government should stop talking about this in a way that makes it seem that people are backward when they say that those who live in rural communities should be penalised for living there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I thank Deputies for bringing forward the motion. My constituents pay some of the highest energy costs in Europe. They would love to be able to re-register their households as data centres in order to avail of some of the Government's cheap electricity, but they cannot do so. As a result, they get screwed every single day of the week for the crime of wanting some hot water and a hot or warm home. People with disabilities feel that even more acutely.  Some 320,000 household accounts are in arrears with their electricity bills and 180,000 are in arrears with their gas bills. This is the inevitable consequence of the Government withdrawing energy credits, which were a little treat in the run-up to the election and which then disappeared very quickly. Those in arrears are having prepaid meters installed in their homes. The Minister of State should know, but I fear he does not, that prepaid meters have some of the highest rates for electricity. A data centre that is sucking the life out of the grid pays cheap electricity rates. However, a lone parent who lives in Balbriggan, Rush, Lusk, Skerries or anywhere else in my constituency and who gets behind with their bills is punished by being put on a higher rate of electricity. When they cannot pay, a buzzer starts to go off and people know their energy is going to run out. They then have to go to the local Intreo office where they are told to fill out a form and wait. People are being cut off, but this is not recorded as their being disconnected. They do not have the energy to heat their homes. The Minister of State should reflect on the impact of the Government's policies on the people who are at the business end of them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Ward  The cost of living is one of the biggest issues that people raise in my constituency office. People are struggling to make ends meet. Workers are handing over more than half of their wages in rent. They can barely cover their bills, put diesel in their cars, food on the table or pay for childcare and ever-increasing insurance costs. The cost of fuel is crippling people as they go about their daily business. Sinn F\u00e9in has pushed every step of the way for the Government to do the right thing. While other parties, including the sponsors of the motion, were sleeping away last week, Sinn F\u00e9in, through Deputy Doherty, put forward amendments to the Finance Bill to reduce the cost of petrol and diesel at the pumps. We have also submitted an amendment to today's motion to improve it.  Last week, we had to listen to what I can only describe as a rant from Independent Ireland regarding Sinn F\u00e9in's policy on carbon tax. Independent Ireland was caught out in its misrepresentation. The D\u00e1il record does not lie. Here are the facts. For those down the back who may struggling with what I am going to say or who hear what they want to hear, carbon tax was brought in by Fianna F\u00e1il in 2010. Sinn F\u00e9in opposed it. Some Independent Ireland Deputies were members of Fianna F\u00e1il when it introduced the carbon tax in 2010. Sinn F\u00e9in opposed the carbon tax in 2012, 2013, 2019 and at every opportunity since. The climate action Bill had absolutely nothing to do with carbon tax. Carbon tax is not mentioned in the Bill. Independent Ireland and others having a different opinion about Sinn F\u00e9in on policy matters is great and is called having political differences and engaging in political discourse. I am happy to argue with them any day of the week, but they should not make things up because people will see through them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  People are struggling. Sometimes I ask myself whether the Government has any idea what is happening. The Minister of State is from west Cork. How do people who do not drive a car or van in west Cork get to work, school, college or hospital? People cannot depend on public transport.  The Government is behaving in a sneaky way. It will put up the price of diesel and petrol while the Government is on holidays. The Minister of State should stand up and be a man. If the Government is going to increase the price, it should increase it. The Government should come in here and do it rather than when its members are out sunning themselves. Why will the Government not accept that and stand over its decisions? Is it afraid of doing so?  The price of petrol and diesel will increase on 1 September. The Government will not even be here to stand over its decisions. Parents with children who are home from school cannot afford summer camps or the cost of extra food. People are struggling when they go to the shops. They wonder what they will feed their kids. This is the reality for families and ordinary working people. The Irish League of Credit Unions has said that one in five families will not be able to afford a holiday. How is it right that people can work all year and do everything right but cannot afford to take a trip? We are not talking about going to Dubai or America. One in five people cannot afford a short family holiday. People cannot afford to pay their energy bills. They cannot afford diesel or petrol and are struggling to put food on their table. What is the Government doing? I do not know what it is doing, because it is letting people down. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Guirke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Guirke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Johnny Guirke  Extending the temporary reduction in excise duty on petrol and diesel is welcome, but it needs to be extended until budget day and then reviewed. In my county of Meath, public transport options are limited and cars are necessity. For families, fuel is an unavoidable expense, whether for a car or to heat a home. Ordinary families are stretched to the limit with high mortgages and insurance costs. One in four households cannot pay gas bills. Some 308,000 people are arrears on their electricity bills. Grocery prices are at an all-time high.  A report from Barnardos last week found more than half of parents are worried that they do not have enough money to put fuel in their cars. Real people and families under real pressure. People with disabilities are choosing between heating and eating. Rents are at an all-time high. People are struggling right now. They cannot wait any longer. That is why Sinn F\u00e9in has called for an emergency budget to put \u20ac500 back in the pockets of workers, electricity credits worth \u20ac400, a \u20ac500 payment for people with disabilities and other measures.  Going back to the D\u00e1il record for March, Aont\u00fa, including Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn, and the Independents group did not cover themselves in glory when voting for the Government's shamefully inadequate measures that triggered the fuel protests. Sinn F\u00e9in stood almost alone. Only one left Independent, Deputy Charles Ward, stood with us in opposing those shamefully weak measures that directly led to fuel protests. In April, after weeks of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael refusing to listen, ordinary people rose up in protest and took to the streets. They forced the Government to reduce the cost of petrol and diesel. They had to fight hard for the little relief they got. Workers have never worked so hard but they have so little. People need a break and they need it right now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  One in seven households is in arrears on its electricity bills. Many have been in that position for months and cannot see any way out of it. Today, 1 July, bills are going up again. Electric Ireland, the State's largest energy provider, is putting up its prices, which means average households will pay an extra \u20ac138 on their bills. Some 1.1 million customers will be impacted. Everyone knows we have the highest electricity prices in Europe. We pay 40% more than the EU average and that amounts to around \u20ac480 per year for an average household. It is an incredibly large amount of money and we can see why people find it so difficult to make do. All the while, there are wind turbines all over the country being switched off at night or when there are constraints on the grid because the grid cannot take the electricity they would produce. This costs approximately \u20ac500 million per year and much of that is being paid by the very people who struggle to pay their bills. It is going onto individual homeowners' bills. It is a crazy situation.  I will tomorrow bring a Bill before the D\u00e1il that will prevent that electricity wastage from happening. It would force the Minister to do something with that energy. It needs to be provided to households at low cost or to people at risk of energy poverty for free. It is being wasted otherwise and we are still paying for it. The UK is doing something in this regard and I ask that the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, look into it. It is really important that we address this issue and stop the wastage of renewable electricity.  We have heard a lot of discussion this morning about the high cost of petrol and diesel. Those prices are skyrocketing because of what is happening in Iran and what happened prior to that in Ukraine. We need to move people away from fossil fuel cars and towards electric vehicles. Many people are making that change. In 2025, there were record sales of electric cars in Ireland and the figures to date in 2026 seem to exceed that. That is a good news story. We are moving people towards a more sustainable and affordable means of transport. However, at the same time that the Government is encouraging people to move to electric vehicles, EVs, and has a target of 1 million EVs by 2030, the prices people pay for a fast-charging or public-charging system are skyrocketing to the point where it is more expensive than running a car on petrol or diesel. It makes no sense. Those public chargers are essentially unregulated. Ionity charges 85 cent per kilowatt hour for fast charging and the ESB has put up its prices to 72 cent. Many people are being locked out of electric car ownership because they live in apartments, do not have on-street parking or are renting. We have a two-tier system whereby many people are unable to avail of the benefits of electric vehicles. It makes no sense. I ask that the Government begin regulating these fast chargers. We cannot have a situation where they charge whatever they want and there is no indexing to domestic or business rates. It is an incredible system and disadvantages the people we need to get into electric vehicles. Will the Minister of State do that and ensure that there is no price-gouging at EV charging points? It seems to me that there is considerable price-gouging going on now because they know they can get away with it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Deputy Cian O\u2019Callaghan","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O\u2019Callaghan  I thank the proposers of this motion for giving us the opportunity to raise important issues around the cost of living. The Social Democrats have said time and again that the Government needs to introduce, as an emergency measure, targeted energy credits. The Government seems to have no interest in doing that. It has no interest in the fact that people on low incomes across the country are struggling to pay their electricity bills and keep food on the table. Even before Iran was attacked, people on low incomes were feeling the pressure. To ignore that time and again and to pass a budget that took supports away and did not replace them with targeted measures for people who needed them most was nothing short of cruel.  When I think back over the past year, one of the memories that stands out is when I visited the Irish Wheelchair Association in Clontarf in my constituency and met with disabled people after the budget. They were horrified that the Government had decided to reduce their incomes by about \u20ac1,400. They were aghast and asked why they were being targeted with those cuts by the Government. Why was the Government being so cruel to people who were already struggling to heat their homes and get by day to day?  On top of the emergency measures, namely, the cost-of-disability payment and targeted energy credits, we need investment in permanent measures to bring down the cost of living. My colleague, Deputy Whitmore, spoke about that. It makes no sense that we live on a windy island on the edge of Europe yet are so far behind on wind energy and solar energy. We have put forward proposals to increase the grants for solar panels to help households permanently reduce their electricity bills. Those are the kinds of measure the Government could and should take, would have a long-term effect and would get us out of needing emergency supports. We need emergency supports now because the Government has not done that but we also need to invest in permanently reducing households' energy bills. That has to be a key part of the conversation.  It is unbelievable that, after years of talking about the need to electrify and decarbonise, the Government cannot even get EV charging right. It is a basic bit of infrastructure and it is not regulated. There was news today of charges on the public network being more expensive than using petrol or diesel. We are in 2026. How is the Government not able to get something basic like that right? It has not been able to address EV charging for people who do not have driveways and only have on-street parking. Years later, it just has not got around to that.  That is before we talk about the inability to develop wind energy. There is no one from Fine Gael in the Chamber but it is 15 years since Fine Gael took office and we have no offshore wind energy in the country. We actually did have one wind farm when it took office. There is an incredible inability by the Government to deliver and to listen to people on lower incomes who are crying out and need support. Our continued reliance on fossil fuels means we are one of the most exposed in Europe, which means our electricity costs are highest and we are most exposed to shocks. There is no excuse for the inability to move towards renewable energy. That has to be the approach.  The Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, has examined the grants that the Government has given out and has shown it has pursued a two-tier strategy. It has given grants to households with means and locked out households that are just above the thresholds for full costs. The latter cannot avail of the grants because they do not have matching funds. These are low--to-middle-income households struggling with bills but unable to avail of retrofit grants or grants for moving to EVs because the Government has designed those grants in a way that is accessible to people on better incomes while those on squeezed incomes without extra money to match the grants are forgotten about.  They are faced with higher and higher prices. The Government has created a two-tier system. Of course, this is being driven by the Government's overall economic strategy. We have a two-tier economy. Some companies are able to afford high rents and high fees and to pay high wages but others are being squeezed out. Everybody else in the country is being squeezed out. They are not able to afford ever-increasing housing costs, an ever-increasing cost of living and ever-increasing electricity costs. The Government just forgets about them. The Government could and should be investing in renewables in a way that makes them accessible to low- to middle-income households. That would result in a permanent reduction in the cost of living and in the costs facing smaller businesses while also helping us to meet our climate targets so that we would not have to pay out billions of euro in fines in the coming years. That is the trajectory we are on at the moment and it needs to be reversed immediately. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  The Minister of State sits across from us practically every week to deal with motions from various Opposition groups so he will know only too well the challenges that families and small businesses across this country are encountering as a result of Ireland being simply unaffordable for far too many people in 2026. This is the umpteenth motion to be tabled in this House since the general election. We like to call this challenge a cost-of-living crisis but it is not a crisis because the word \"crisis\" suggests something temporary that will pass. This is a permacrisis, for want of a better description. It is a structural problem in our economy that is affecting our society.  The reality is that, outside of thinking that throwing money at problems is a solution, the Government has no solution to the structural problems facing our economy and our society. For example, if the Government thinks that the structural problems in the hospitality sector can be addressed by throwing an inefficient and stupid tax cut at hospitality businesses, it has another thing coming. That simply will not work in the way we would all like to see. It makes no sense. In reality, it reflects a paucity of thinking at Government level, a lack of imagination and a tired managerialism at the heart of this Government. The Government has run out of ideas and has no mission or ambition to change this country for the better for the majority. It is simply picking winners.  Edgar Morgenroth said in the media yesterday that fiscal policy in this country is now run by lobbyists. We may regard ourselves as advocates of the people and - dare I say it - lobbyists for the people of this country but there are very few people in this House who are standing up for the taxpayer. The days when Fine Gael would have said it stood up for the taxpayer are gone because of stupid tax cuts like the one introduced yesterday, which makes no sense whatsoever and actually comes at the expense of working people.  Working people are paying for this because the resources available for some basic tax relief for working people last year was swallowed up by one of the stupidest in a long line of stupid tax cuts this Government has introduced since 2020. In fact, I will go as far back as 2016. The Government has wasted a boom, is reckless with the economy and is imprudent with the public finances. It is working people and people who depend on the State for their incomes who are being affected by this. Those chickens will come home to roost. The people who will pay are those who depend on the State for their income and working people, including public servants, who the Government has decided not to talk to about a successor to the current public sector pay deal, which ran out yesterday. That goes to show where this Government's priorities are.  I will make some basic points on the motion. There is much to be welcomed, although I would quibble with many aspects. There is no reference to the need to restructure our childcare and early years system to make sure that childcare is affordable for families. The motion leans extremely heavily on charges associated with fossil fuels. We are not going to make energy cheaper in this country if we continue to rely on fossil fuels and just keep chasing the price by reducing excise duty and carbon taxes. What we need is a radical approach, a revolution of renewables. That means doing the necessary on offshore wind, realising that moonshot moment the former Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, spoke eloquently about a number of years ago before doing very little about it in reality. It means making sure that undertaking deep retrofits of our homes is not merely a pursuit for the middle class and the wealthy. We need to make sure that SEAI grants to retrofit our homes and introduce renewables are affordable and income-based. We need a fossil fuel-run car scrappage scheme to ensure the electric vehicle revolution we need. As others have said, we also need the reintroduction of targeted energy credits in the next budget to ensure that heating our homes and businesses is more affordable in the interim, as we make that move to renewables. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I thank Deputies T\u00f3ib\u00edn and Lawless and Aont\u00fa for bringing forward this very important motion. As every TD will tell the Minister of State, we are meeting people across our constituencies who are doing everything society asks of them. They get up early in the morning, go to work, pay their taxes, raise their children and contribute to their communities. However, despite doing everything correctly, they are still struggling to make ends meet. These are families sitting around the kitchen table trying to work out which bill can wait until next week. They are the parents wondering how they will afford school uniforms in a few short weeks' time. They are the workers whose wages disappear within days of payday because the rent or the mortgage, the groceries and the electricity bill leave them with little or nothing to spare. These people are not looking for handouts. They are looking for fairness.  At the beginning of May, the Labour Party put practical and fully-costed proposals before this House and before the Government in the form of a mini budget. We proposed measures to help PAYE workers keep more of what they earn, targeted energy supports, a summer double social welfare payment, the restoration of the \u20ac100 cut to the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance, additional support for families through child benefit, and a range of practical measures to ease the pressure on households. The Government voted down these proposals.  In recent months, we saw fuel protests across the country. These protests highlighted the very real financial pressure many people are under. I supported the measures brought forward by Government because those people needed relief. I voted for that package. Fuel is only one part of the cost-of-living crisis, however. There are thousands of people who will never organise a protest. There are families quietly struggling behind the front door of their home. If I am a mother or a father trying to find the money for school uniforms, I cannot park my worries on O'Connell Street and hope someone notices. If I am trying to keep up with the mortgage, the rent, childcare costs or the weekly grocery bill, I am fighting that battle around my own kitchen table. Those families deserve the same urgency.  If Government accepted that one group under financial pressure deserved immediate action, why did it reject the Labour Party's proposals to support the thousands of other workers, families, pensioners, carers and those living with disabilities who are under just as much pressure every single day? The Government cannot pick and choose whose cost-of-living crisis it responds to. Relief cannot depend on who is most visible. It must reach those who are doing everything right, working hard and paying their taxes, and yet are still wondering how they will get to the end of the month. The people of my constituency are not asking for special treatment. They are asking for fairness and practical action. The Labour Party has put practical solutions before this House. Families cannot wait until the next budget. They need action now.  I will touch on some of the stuff my colleague, Deputy Nash, has said. He has given these costed proposals to Government to implement for families across this country. He has spoken about the fact that we use the word \"crisis\", which makes it seem like this is a short-term issue. This has been a crisis in this country for many years now. Many families and individuals right across Ireland are genuinely struggling behind their own front door. During the week, we saw huge fanfare for the VAT rate being cut to 9%. My aunt has had a hair salon for the past 25 years.  On the face of it, the VAT cut is acceptable and seems workable but will the person get the cheaper cup of coffee or a cheaper haircut? They do not have any relief when they have to pay \u20ac1,000 for school uniforms and no relief when they have to pay \u20ac700 for an iPad that has really disregarded the free book scheme in this country. While the 9% VAT cut favours large business and corporations, it does not favour hard-working families who are struggling behind their own front doors.  We speak about the retrofitting of homes. These retrofit grants are only applicable to the majority of people who have huge incomes in this country. Ordinary, hard-working people cannot afford to make up the extra funding needed for these retrofitting grants. There was huge fanfare for the EV scrappage scheme and the \u20ac8,000 people would get, but how are people supposed to pay \u20ac30,000 extra for the EV? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  The cost of living is rising at an alarming rate right across the board. Middle- and low-income households cannot keep up, particularly households on below \u20ac75,000. Those on \u20ac50,000, \u20ac60,000 and \u20ac70,000 used to be counted as being well-off. They are not now. Rents, mortgages, electricity, gas, motor fuel, food, health insurance and much more have all increased, not by single figures, but by double-digit figures on every hike. Meanwhile, wages and incomes have increased by 1% or 2% or not at all.  In the case of housing, rents are skyrocketing due to Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael's decision to remove the rent pressure zones, however meek they were. A lot of us on this side of the House wanted them nailed down tighter. The fact is their removal means double-digit increases are happening. Rent for a two-bedroom unit in County Laois has gone up by 34% in one year. Mortgage repayments are now higher because the overall capital sum being borrowed to keep up with galloping house prices is increasing. In Laois, there has been an increase of 12%, 13% or 14% in one year.  Electricity and gas prices are increasing today by 8% on top of all the recent increases. Home heating oil is up 50% or 60%. Motor fuels have increased. We had better not forget about health insurance. Health insurance, which families, households and individuals are forced to get because we have not got Sl\u00e1intecare yet, is going up two and three times a year. These are huge increases of 6%, 7%, 8% or 9% each time.  At the same time, public money is being wasted. State projects have cost overruns. That needs to be curtailed. I will always argue for projects but we have to get value for taxpayers' money. We have IT systems that do not work. Construction projects that finish at double their budgets. There are layers upon layers of management and bureaucracy in public bodies that should be rationalised and streamlined. All of this and much more needs to be history.  The Department of education has framework agreements for school projects, including school extensions. To provide an example, a two-classroom autism spectrum disorder, ASD, unit with an all-timber outside finish cost \u20ac2.7 million. Another unit 30 or 40 miles away, which I can show the Minister of State and have brought to the attention of the Department today, cost \u20ac2.05 million. It is completed in brick, is a bigger unit and has the ancillary rooms and everything else in it. These framework agreements need to be re-examined. I hope that the Minister of State and the senior officials are listening to what I am saying because this is an important issue and I hope it is brought to the attention of the Department of education. These framework agreements need to be looked at.  There are a whole lot of measures that we need to take, but an immediate step would be to extend medical card cover until we get Sl\u00e1intecare. Sl\u00e1intecare, and the public health system it envisions, has to be prioritised. In the short term, we need to extend medical card cover to ordinary workers and families who cannot go to doctors to get medical treatment because they cannot afford to. That will help all of those who do not have medical cards but cannot afford health insurance.  We need to bring in a windfall tax to be imposed on the large energy companies, including the wind farm owners where there are high profits, once profits go over a certain amount. That money should be used and ploughed into retrofitting for middle-income families who do not qualify for the free scheme and cannot afford to match the funding for the other schemes. There is an opportunity here. The people in the middle are caught. If someone is on social welfare, they rightly get the free scheme for fuel allowance. People under \u20ac75,000 are caught because they cannot afford the retrofitting or the electric car.  The minimum wage needs to be increased to a living wage. We need to reintroduce the rent caps for each county. We need to speed up the retrofitting of households, including with solar panels. We need to scrap the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, as it stands or else reform it. In my time here, I have heard and seen reports from it and it is a toothless tiger. It has turned out to be useless.  Last year, \u20ac9.5 billion in excess was given out but nothing happened for workers. Nothing happened to the taxation of middle-income workers, those people on between \u20ac20,000 and \u20ac70,000. They got zero. The Government should not forget about them this year. It should adjust the tax bands to favour those low- and middle-income workers and not miss the opportunity again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  The reason we have a cost-of-living crisis in this country and across the world for working people is because of the greed of billionaires, multimillionaires, warmongers and the governments that back them. The personal fortunes of Donald Trump and his mate, Elon Musk, sum it all up. This year, while ordinary people across the world are crushed with a cost-of-living crisis and some people are being bombed to bits by Musk and Trump's allies in Palestine, Iran or Lebanon, Musk's fortune has gone past $1 trillion. It is massively increasing. He is the world's first trillionaire. As for Donald Trump's fortunes, shame on anybody who ever echoed a word of support or praise for this guy. Since he got into power, his personal fortune has nearly tripled from $2.3 billion to $6.5 billion by ripping off working class people in the United States with his mate Musk. The billionaires and the trillionaires. Then they start wars. They support a genocide, they bomb Iran, they bomb Lebanon, and the cost of living goes up for working people in this country because of these billionaires and trillionaires.  We have our own version of that in this country also benefiting from all of that. There are 11 billionaires in this country and the number is increasing. The Collison brothers, Denis O'Brien, John Dorrance and all these people have \u20ac46 billion in personal wealth. The richest 1% of Irish society have between them 35% of all the wealth, which adds up to about \u20ac400 billion. These people are creaming it. The more they charge in rents and the more they speculate on property affecting ordinary people affected by the housing crisis, the richer they get while ordinary people are crushed with the cost of living.  I cannot help pointing to the fact that while all of this is happening and ordinary people are being crushed by the cost of living, they want to double arms expenditure across Europe because Donald Trump has told them to do it, to the benefit of the international arms industry. Money that should go into addressing the cost-of-living crisis and into housing, health and childcare is going to go into the pockets of the arms producers to make the billionaires and trillionaires even wealthier while ordinary people are bombed to bits, sent out to fight and crushed with the cost of living increases.  Contrast that with, for example, the postal worker who came in to see me the other day. The starting salary for a postal worker is \u20ac27,000 and the top of the scale is \u20ac41,000. He is in a housing assistant payment, HAP, tenancy with one bedroom but he has four children who have to come and stay with him, so they sleep on camping beds. Since An Post pays so poorly, they have not got enough postal workers, so he has to do a lot of overtime. However, if he gets too much overtime, he is going to go over the threshold for social housing and then he will not even be able to afford a home because there is absolutely no way he could afford private rents on his own salary.  It is the multimillionaires who are charging these rents that he cannot afford. What is the Government doing to assist or address that situation? Is it introducing wealth taxes? Is it stopping the speculation on land and property? No, it is rezoning land and making more property millionaires overnight. All this wealth is not a victimless crime. It is coming out of the pockets of people in unaffordable rents and unaffordable house prices. That is where they are making their fortunes, and we have a Government that is facilitating them in doing it while ordinary working people are being absolutely crushed.  Profits in this country have gone up by 400% since I came into the D\u00e1il. Have workers\u2019 wages gone up by 400%? You must be joking. In real terms, workers are probably worse off because their pay increases have not kept up with inflation. Unless working people get organised, fight and take to the streets against the hikes in the cost of living and the unaffordable cost of housing and accommodation, and demand wealth taxes to redistribute wealth, we are not going to address the cost-of-living crisis in this country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Healy-Rae  This motion is timely because, with the massive increases for people running their homes and businesses, people who are working have never been at more of a disadvantage because of the high cost of going to work, childcare and fuel. What we need is a more targeted approach by the Government. It will never be more important or timely than in the upcoming budget to make sure that the supports that will be made available for energy and the general cost of living are targeted to help people who are really struggling.  From dealing with people every day, it seems to me that it mostly affects those who are working. Everybody can be struggling, but for the people who are going to work every day, who have the high cost of loans on cars and mortgage or rent payments, everything is piling up on top of them. It is the same for businesses. In County Kerry alone, the number of businesses that are closing weekly is frightening. These businesses are owned by people who have been in business for many years, who are very much valued in our communities and who create local employment, but they are closing their doors. It can be small shops, public houses or gift stores. These are people who were able to manage before, who are involved in different types of personal services, like hairdressers. We have to do something to arrest it.  I want to focus on one issue in particular, the high cost of energy. Why is it costing us so much to provide electricity to people's homes? When we look at the profits being made by the likes of the ESB, we have to look at what we are doing. That is why I welcome, for example, what is being done regarding Shannon LNG. We should be doing more about providing our own energy, and doing more in a forward-thinking way to try to ensure that these types of measures will help us to reduce the cost of energy. When energy costs are higher, and we are all well aware of the statistics on exactly how much fuel and energy have gone up in price, we have to be forward thinking about how we are going to deal with that in the coming years.  The measures we take, such as those that were voted on in the House last night to support an LNG facility in this country, are very important. I believe we need to have more debates about this matter in the coming weeks in a pre-budget type of way. We have all met with the different groups and sectors that have come here over the last weeks and months to make pre-budget submissions. However, at the end of the day, the people that we always have to consider are people on low incomes, people who are working and people who are struggling. We have to try to help them in every way we can through targeted approaches.  We have to look at the bigger picture, like the high cost of fuel and the tax take on fuel. The figures are mind-boggling. Again, why is fuel more expensive here than in any other part of Europe or the world? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I thank Aont\u00fa for bringing forward this motion and giving me the chance to speak on it. I have spoken about the cost of living multiple times, including when speaking to my constituents. I have spoken 41 times in the D\u00e1il and committees about plug-in solar, and I want to bring it up again. As we know, Ireland is one of the most data centre-dense countries. I brought in a Bill three weeks ago regarding the Electricity Regulation Act, and I look forward to working constructively with members of the Opposition and the Government on this. I believe we need to change how we are dealing with energy. It was one of the things I was elected to do, and I will continuously bang the drum of common-sense solutions.  Speaking of my constituents, I have continuously pushed for home heating oil to be addressed in the next budget because of the homes in my constituency that rely on it. They cannot switch, so they are completely exposed to the global oil price volatility  Regarding plug-in solar, this is something that we need to do. It is the quickest solution that I have seen. The UK has just done it. I want to explain that it is for everyone. It is for anyone in an apartment who does not have access to the roof. It is for anyone in a heritage building who cannot put solar panels on their property. It is for anyone who wants to buy a kit in their local supermarket for a fraction of the price of the initial investment because, with the current energy price, this will have a payback period of two years. If we allowed Fingal County Council and Dublin City Council to roll these out with a modest investment of \u20ac500 million, the payback period would be two years from that investment. If we allowed it in conjunction with batteries, it would be more. Those were calculations that I did on the back of an envelope, so the Minister of State will excuse me if my current calculation is wrong. The average savings in Germany and the UK are estimated at \u20ac260 to \u20ac300 a year, and the kits cost \u20ac500.  If the sun keeps shining the way it is, this will help those single mothers in my constituency who want to put money back in their pockets. It will help those children who have just moved out of their parents\u2019 home and bought an apartment, only to be told they cannot get solar panels because they do not have access to the roof. Some of the people who commented on my video said that a solar panel on a balcony could fall on your head. So could a flower pot, but a flower pot is not going to save you \u20ac260 a year off your electricity bill, is it? Germany has 700,000 of these systems with zero reported incidents. The UK legalised it earlier in the year.  I want to acknowledge where there has been movement because progress has been made, and I give credit where credit is due. The ESB has responded and confirms that it wants to look at the 800 W system. It has committed to building a simplified online registration system and adopting the German safe standard. I thank the Department officials who have worked on this. Regarding the 2024 consultation with Electric Ireland, Bord G\u00e1is, Energia, the Electricity Association of Ireland and ESB Networks, some of their consultation documents to the Department were very good, and I read every single one of them. The German standard needs to be adopted. The remaining question is: when? We need to change the ISO standard and bring this in immediately. If the worry is the danger, let us bring it in as a pilot scheme for new-build social and affordable housing and apartments delivered by local authorities and approved housing bodies, and allow people to save money immediately.  Again, the issue of home heating oil must be addressed in the budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I thank the proposers of the motion. I am delighted to get the chance to talk about the cost of living. The increased cost of living is in everyone's mouth, and everyone is saying that their wages are being eroded by the cost of living. I believe the main driver is the cost of fuel and energy. For every litre that is purchased, more than half of the cost, approximately 95 cent, is going to the State coffers. There is room for manoeuvre. It is time to get rid of carbon tax, full stop. Fuel is dear enough.  I want to talk about rents. People are out of their minds about the cost of rent. In most cases, the Government is taking 52% in tax out of each person who is renting a property just to provide a roof over their head.  Businesses have to deal with the cost of electricity. I have stated in the House several times that there is no sign of a regulator.  Every day since Bord na M\u00f3na closed, the cost of electricity has gone up. People in Kerry are outraged at the amount of money they are paying for electricity. Especially businesses cannot keep going and with commercial rates on top of that, people are being driven out of their long-standing businesses that have been operating even in Killarney and in places like Castleisland, Currow and Cordal. In all of those places, shops that were there forever, going back ages, are closing. They are gone now and more of them are set to go because the rates have gone mad. The demands that people are getting for commercial rates are totally outrageous altogether.  I will say it again to the Government; it is taking in more and its expectations regarding the tax take have doubled over the last number of months. At the same time, it was so slow to react to the protestors and the people who were outraged that the prices at the pumps were going up each day. I told the Government that in this House on 24 March, when it offered 3 cent on green diesel and home heating to the people. It offered 3 cent and 2 cent per litre, when it was costing people 70 cent or 80 cent more per litre. At the same time, it was able to give \u20ac40 million to Ukraine and \u20ac125 million to Zelenskyy when he came here. The Government put the country down for the almost \u20ac2 billion that it borrowed for that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  That is where taxpayers' money is going, not back to taxpayers, who are giving the Government the money. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Robert Troy)  I thank all of the Deputies for raising these important matters and for giving all of us an opportunity on all sides of the House to discuss the pressures households are facing regarding the cost of living and the actions the Government is taking. It is fair to say that some people on the far side of the House have been positive in their commentary in highlighting some of the issues that are faced and providing some potential solutions. Most recently, Deputy Heneghan proposed a solution regarding plug-in solar panels. The Government needs to learn that when decisions are to be taken, if we take them more swiftly, the solution will then obviously be implemented more quickly. A lot of people did not acknowledge the real reason we have such a huge energy cost currently, which is the conflict in the Middle East. To be fair to Deputy Boyd Barrett, he acknowledged it and the impact that it is having on the cost of living, not just in Ireland but right throughout the globe, and how governments are responding to that issue.  One thing I will take issue with Deputy Body Barrett on is when he demonised people like the Collison brothers, who started off by winning the BT Young Scientist award and went on to be global players in the fintech place, creating thousands of jobs not just in Ireland but across the globe, and whose innovation in technology is supporting so many Irish SMEs in their ability to trade not just domestically but internationally. If we demonise people like that, who are creating opportunities and employment and paying corporation tax, which enables us to make decisions in relation to investing in services and social welfare, I really do wonder sometimes. We should be celebrating the success of people like that rather than demonising them on the floor of the D\u00e1il.  Given all that is happening in the Middle East, the Government is continuing to monitor the situation and continues to provide the necessary supports to alleviate the pressure. In recent days, we witnessed more evidence of that when the Government extended the supports to ensure that the actions are there to help households and businesses with the cost of energy and fuel. Despite what people in the Opposition try to portray, this was always going to be the case. It is right and proper that the Government keeps a watchful eye over what is happening on the international market in terms of the cost of fuel and responds accordingly. People on the Opposition benches tried to build up fear by leaning into people's anxiety in relation to the excise reductions ending at the end of July. Deputy Nash mentioned how I have been in this House many times taking similar debates. During every debate, we reassure people that the supports will be monitored, evaluated and, if needed, extended, and that is just what is going to happen. We are acutely aware of the issues facing people. We also have to remember that the price of a barrel of oil is $73 today and when the supports were introduced it was $120, so it would be wrong if we did not keep this situation monitored.  The most recent supports are also coupled with supports the Government introduced in budget 2026 to help households with energy costs. These included an extension of the 9% VAT rate currently applied to gas and electricity, saving households up to \u20ac100 per year; enhanced social protection payments, including an increase in the fuel allowance rate to \u20ac38 per week and an expansion in the eligibility rules, with 40,000 additional households qualifying for it after the most recent budget; and a record allocation of \u20ac640 million for SEAI retrofit schemes, allowing us to target up to 73,000 home energy upgrades this year, including \u20ac340 million for the warmer homes scheme, which provides fully funded upgrades for those in energy poverty.  I agree, however, with many of the speakers, who identified that budget 2027 needs to include taxation measures and supports for people working. We need to send a strong message out from Government that work is rewarded and recognise that people are making a contribution. That is something that we will see in budget 2007 when it is announced later this year.  On energy supplies and the increases in energy costs, I would strongly encourage people who are difficulty with the cost of energy to engage with their supplier. There is a commitment by all suppliers not to disconnect any customers and to engage with them. In addition, for people who are finding it hard, there is a means-tested payment, the additional needs payment, through the Department of Social Protection for people who cannot afford to pay their energy bills. It is important that all of us identify that this service is there for people who need it.  Many Deputies referred to the high price of energy for households. It is important to note that structural factors also impact on our energy prices. As a country, we are import-dependent for energy, making us particularly vulnerable to price volatility in the wholesale market. Our isolated island location, low levels of interconnection, widely dispersed low-density population and reliance on fossil fuels are also important price determinants.  Retail prices are also influenced by factors other than wholesale prices, including supplier hedging. This is the practice of purchasing energy in bulk ahead of time, protecting consumers from the day-to-day volatility of the energy markets but also having long-run effects on retail prices. This, as well as the current conflict, highlights why Ireland must reduce its reliance on imported fossil fuels, accelerate the deployment of renewables and expand interconnection with trusted European partners. We are also working to ensure that households benefit directly from the renewable energy transition.  Retrofitting is one of the best measures a household can take to reduce its energy bills. For instance, a deep retrofit can reduce energy bills by up to \u20ac1,100 per year. That is a permanent saving. Applications for SEAI grants so far this year have doubled on last year.  When people say people are not availing of it, they have doubled in the past year. That is 55,000 applications processed to date in 2025. Since 2019, over 268,000 home energy upgrades have been completed, thanks to Government funding of \u20ac1.8 billion, including 36,300 fully funded under the warmer homes scheme. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, has significantly expanded the retrofit measures, something a lot of Deputies called for earlier today, to ensure they are more accessible and affordable for households. Key measures include stand-alone window and door grants, increased heat-pump grants and increased cavity wall and attic insulation for first-time buyers and households eligible for the warmer homes scheme. In addition, a rooftop revolution is under way across Ireland. Over 112,000 homes have received solar PV grants since the scheme began. SEAI has received over 15,000 applicants for solar PV up to the end of April 2026, and that is a 72% increase on total applications since 2025. Again, people are responding to the supports being provided by the Government. The numbers simply do not lie.  I conclude by reiterating that the Government is aware that people are grappling with rising costs as the geopolitical situation continues to evolve. We will remain focused on ensuring Ireland's energy security remains robust while endeavouring to assist those experiencing real and immediate financial pressures. No Government throughout the world can fully insulate its citizens from the impact of the Middle East but we are doing better than most. We will continue to monitor the situation and to make the necessary interventions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  The Aont\u00fa Private Members' motion is designed to reduce the cost of living for families. It is designed to reduce the pressure on families across the country. The Minister of State is right to some extent. There is no doubt that the wars in Ukraine and in Iran, for example, have increased the cost of living for families. However, this Government is the main architect of the rip-off Ireland that is hurting this country at the moment. The Government can list a range of different supports it is giving to families, such as child benefit and fuel supports, but most people would rather it stopped taking the money out of their pockets just to give it back to them in another support. That is the key issue here. The Minister of State mentioned supports for energy costs. The truth is that most of middle-Ireland is considered too rich by the Government for those supports but they are actually too poor still to pay for electricity and fuel. As a result, half a million of those families are currently in energy arrears.  We, too, want Ireland to decouple from fossil fuels. We want Ireland to become self-sufficient in terms of energy. Energy independence is as importance as fuel independence. Being dependent on the Middle East and on Russia is a major exposure for this country. However, the way to do it is with a carrot rather than a stick. I am the chair of the Meath on Track campaign. We have been campaigning since 1994 for a rail line. The earliest possible time that will arrive is 2036, that is, if nothing stops it, and there is likely to be another slip in relation to that. We want to see solar panels put on the roofs and increased supports for retrofitting in this country. Most families would give their right hand to get out of fossil fuel dependence and to have the public transport solutions they need but the Government will not provide it for them.  This Government has also spoken about renewables. The biggest brake on renewables is this Government. We have been told for years that Ireland is going to become the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy - of wind energy. Yet, in recent times, we have become a net importer of electricity. We are going in the opposite direction to the rhetoric that the Government is using in these terms. We have been told about offshore wind. Forgive me if I am cynical in relation to this. This Government has had six offshore wind conferences since 2021. We have no offshore wind energy generation. Not one turbine is operating in this country. The Government is brilliant at developing conferences, brochures, plans and policies. Sticking a turbine in the sea does not work for the Government though. That is the major problem with all of this. Dysfunction in the system is holding back renewable energy.  We have, at the moment, marginal pricing in energy pricing in this country. That means the price of a unit of electricity is priced at the last unit that is added on to the system. If we keep adding data centres in this country, we are never going to get out of the grip of gas. We are never going to run fast enough to get free of gas being the marginal unit of electricity produced. The Government is going in the opposite direction in terms of freeing this country from renewable energy. The grid is creaking. It is grinding to a halt. Dispatch down, constraints and bottlenecks are all brakes to the addition of renewable energy. Every single turbine that is added has a diminishing return. We are paying \u20ac500 million a year to renewable energy providers to stop producing electricity. The dysfunctional system means the network costs and the stabilising costs of the network are actually now more than the wholesale cost of producing electricity in Ireland, and that is adding to everybody's bill.  I want to talk about Sinn F\u00e9in's contribution. Sinn F\u00e9in Members spent their time attacking Opposition TDs on this while letting the Government off the hook. Let us be clear about this. Aont\u00fa voted for the excise cuts that helped people over the past few months. Incredibly, Sinn F\u00e9in was the only Opposition party that voted against the excise cuts that helped people over the past few months. Incredibly, Sinn F\u00e9in is now arguing against those excise increases, having voted against them being cut in the first place. Deputy Guirke spoke about the fact that Aont\u00fa did not speak on the Finance Bill. That is rubbish. Incredibly, Deputy Guirke, the stone-thrower, did not speak on that Bill; we in Aont\u00fa did. In 2024, Deputy Guirke had the lowest speaking contribution in the D\u00e1il. He spoke for one hour in a whole year in total. Deputy Guirke is the Fr. Stone of Irish politics and he thinks being a TD is a remote job. It is not. Those who turn up here make the decisions, and not turning up and staying silent does not help the people of Meath.  It must also be said that the Government was pulled kicking and screaming to reduce these costs, and the reason for this was people power. It was because of ordinary people taking to the streets of this country and demanding help. Ordinary people, whose businesses, families and jobs were falling around them, took to the streets in desperation and this forced the Government's hands. If we are honest, the major reason this Government is not increasing excise until September is that it is fearful the protestors are going to come back onto the streets on this issue and it does not want these protesters to put bad luck on this EU Presidency. That is the biggest issue here.  The frustrations people have about the level of tax on fuel at the moment is because the tax they are paying is ending up in waste. That is a major issue. Most people do not mind paying taxes as long as they get value for money in the services those taxes are producing. We can look at the level of Government waste that is happening. Some \u20ac50 million spent on an Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann IT system that never worked. When we asked the Taoiseach about it, he did not know the answers. Some \u20ac300 million has been spent on metro north and not a shovel has been put in the ground. When it was announced 20 years ago, the price of it was \u20ac2 billion but now the price is edging towards \u20ac16 billion. There is the 100 electric buses that were bought that never moved an inch because somebody forgot to provide an electricity charger for those buses. There is the recent \u20ac127,000 for the HSE Kerry bike shed, following on from the \u20ac336,000 D\u00e1il bike shed, and the \u20ac10 million that is going to be spent on the Dublin City Council offices in Wood Quay that it plans to knock in three years' time. Then we have the \u20ac2.4 billion on the national children's hospital, which is basically a monument to Government waste at the moment. There are so many examples of taxpayers' money, which is extracted from their pockets, being incinerated by Government over and over again.  One of the most insidious levels of Government waste that never gets looked at in this country are the overspends on an annual basis.  From 2021, the Government has been overspending by \u20ac5 billion a year and it has come under pressure from IFAC in relation to it. Health accounts for 40% of that overspend and capital infrastructure overruns saw \u20ac1.6 billion in one year.  At the heart of the cost-of-living crisis in this country is the Fianna F\u00e1il-Fine Gael-Independents Government tax gauging the people of Ireland and allowing for dysfunction to reign in terms of the infrastructure and the spend in this country.  Ireland has the highest electricity prices in the whole of Europe and the second highest in the world. Incredibly, ESB made a profit of \u20ac3 billion just in the past four years. ESB is a public company operating on the basis of Government policy and that company is now looking to increase electricity prices today. Does the Minister of State not see the problem here? How can he stand over a Government company making \u20ac3 billion profit in four years and then in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis jack up the cost of electricity? The fact the Government is allowing that to happen is a major problem.  Last year there was \u20ac4.3 billion in fuel taxes and \u20ac1.2 billion in carbon tax, a tax that hardly existed five years ago. These are excruciating costs for families. They are hurting and damaging families. They are damaging businesses. These high energy costs are bad for the economy. That is never discussed here, that jobs are going abroad and businesses are closing because the Government is a high energy cost Government. The Government must gets to grips with that and realise what levers are in place. One of the levers is excise costs. Over the next six months, the Government wants to increase excise five times in a cost-of-living crisis. I am asking the Minister of State not to do that and to back the Aont\u00fa Private Members' motion. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment No. 1 to amendment No. 1 put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The division will be postponed until the weekly division time next week. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 12.03 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 5.30 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Sitting suspended at 12.03 p.m. and resumed at 5.30 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cost of Living: Motion [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Bus Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_10","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maurice Quinlivan  In recent years, there have been some improvements on the bus transport in Limerick city, with routes such as the 310 from Annacotty to the city centre being rolled out. These new routes and improvements have to be welcomed, but significant gaps remain in the provision of bus services across Limerick city. Condell Road in Limerick is an example in this regard. Hundreds of new homes, which were built in recent years and in which families and workers live, are located on this road and in the surrounding area. The road itself is well laid out and has a significant amount of bus infrastructure, including a bus lane, yet there is no local bus services in the area. I do not understand how such a densely populated area with the necessary infrastructure in place does not have an active bus service.  The Kilteragh estate in Dooradoyle, where hundreds of homes are also located, has no bus service. The nearest bus stop is located outside the Crescent Shopping Centre, which is 2 km away. Another area that is lacking a bus service is that which lies between St. Mary's Park, the most deprived area in the whole city, and the Garryowen area. While the area has a bus route, the service ends at 6 p.m. The latter is due to a legacy issue dating back a number of years and that needs to be resolved in order that we can see the return of a proper bus service. The area in question has the lowest level of car ownership in the city, with an estimated 57% of householders not having access to cars. In addition, the population in the area is ageing. Having their bus service end before nightfall is absurd in this day and age.  We have faced major challenges in making the Limerick city centre a liveable and enjoyable place. Efforts have been made to improve the city and make it a more attractive place to visit and enjoy. We have had some great success with the promotion of King John's Castle as a music venue, Thomond Park and the annual Great Limerick Run. In light of the need to revitalise the city, it seems extraordinary that the residents of St. Mary's Park and Garryowen cannot avail of public transport to visit the city centre.  We are also trying to promote a more sustainable future. The use of public transport is crucial in this regard. Not everyone has the luxury of their own vehicle, yet there are populated areas of Limerick that do not have access to a properly functioning transport system. To date, BusConnects has achieved some progress, particularly in the context of services on new roads, and there has been an increase in passenger numbers. In Limerick, however, the BusConnects project has been marked by shortcomings in planning, funding and delivery. It is nearly a decade since the announcement of BusConnects and the projected completion date of 2027, but the timelines across the area to which I refer have been pushed out to 2030. The project has been plagued by delays and postponements. In Limerick, frankly, it has not been delivered. The costs relating to the project have spiralled, with an estimated increase in cost from the initial \u20ac1 billion to between \u20ac2.6 billion and \u20ac3.4 billion. We have already seen a four-year delay in the delivery of BusConnects, which has impacted the economic development and liveability of Limerick.  When raising the issue of University Hospital Limerick on many occasions, I have spoken about the growing population of Limerick and the wider mid-west region. The growth in population also makes the delivery of a functional, affordable and viable public transport system critical. Limerick BusConnects has the potential to transform connectivity within the city and between its suburbs, thereby improving access to employment and education, reducing congestion and delivering on commitments relating to sustainability. I see no desire to provide this urgently needed funding for BusConnects in Limerick in order that it can progress. This must change. The Minister of State needs to ensure that the necessary funding is provided promptly.  BusConnects across the State is yet another example of the Government's consistent failure to meet target delivery dates. Of course, it has failed, with costs in excess of initial estimates. I urge the Minister of State to get onto the National Transport Authority, NTA, to tell it to end the delays relating to BusConnects in Limerick, to get the project back on track and to get bus services delivered for the people who need them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht (Deputy Jerry Buttimer)  I thank Deputy Quinlivan for raising this matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Transport. I commend the Deputy on raising the matter because it gives us the opportunity to provide an update on BusConnects in Limerick. I will take this opportunity to highlight some sustainable mobility developments in Limerick more generally. I will bring the comments the Deputy made regarding the gaps and deficits, as he sees them, in the service back to the Minister and the Department.  The Limerick-Shannon metropolitan area transport strategy has been developed by the NTA in the context of delivering an accessible, integrated transport network that will enable the sustainable growth of Limerick up to 2040. I take on board some of the comments the Deputy made about Limerick being made liveable in the context of the redesign of the city centre. The latter includes the development of the bus system and the Limerick BusConnects programme. It is fair to say that good progress has been made in delivering the strategy, including BusConnects Limerick.  In 2023, the NTA carried out an extensive review of the Limerick bus network. This review was conducted in collaboration with Limerick City and County Council, Clare County Council and Bus \u00c9ireann, and was supported by the specialised expertise of the transport system designers Jarrett Walker and Associates. Following public consultation, the NTA published its final new bus network for Limerick in December 2023. The redesign of the bus network is one of the nine key elements of BusConnects Limerick that aims to transform the city\u2019s bus system, making public transport more useful and accessible to more people.  I take the Deputy's point that not everybody has a car. People should not have to own cars, particularly in cities like Limerick or Cork. The new bus network will enable more people to avail of public transport resulting in increased access to a greater number of schools and workplaces across Limerick city. Limerick is a college city. That is part of the whole network system. Overall, 41% of residents will live within 400 metres of a high frequency bus route, running every 15 minutes or better. Limerick is the first city in Ireland with a fully electrified bus service, with two phases of charger installation works coming on stream at Roxboro bus depot during 2024 and 61 zero-emission buses in active service today.  Regarding future phases of BusConnects Limerick, and the BusConnects programmes across the cities more generally, the NTA will publish its detailed national development plan implementation plan later this year, which will set out the elements of the programme to be progressed in the coming years within available funding to 2030. This follows on from the publication of the national development plan, NDP, sectoral investment plan by the Department of Transport last November, and the publication of the NDP review last July. In addition, the NTA is also preparing a BusConnects programme progress report. This report will set out the latest position across the programme, including developments in relation to network redesign, infrastructure delivery and overall programme progress.  In addition to bus-based improvements, the Limerick-Shannon metropolitan area transport strategy also recommends a number of improvements to rail infrastructure, including a new rail station at Moyross. Planning permission for this station was received from Limerick City and County Council in October 2025. The project has progressed into the detailed design phase, with procurement preparations under way. It is currently planned to commence construction later this year. Other rail interventions include increasing the frequency of services on the Ballybrophy line to up to two trains per hour, double-tracking the line from Limerick Junction to Colbert Station and upgrading Colbert Station, a project that was successfully completed in November 2024. People are now benefiting from the improved facilities at the station, including the new car park, ticketing facilities, bus concourse and set-down area.  The NDP sectoral plan also contains an allocation funding for the delivery of a number of priority rail projects by 2030. I will pass that back to the Deputy, particularly as has received a copy of the Department's response.  I will take the Deputy's points regarding the areas he mentioned back to the Minister. I again thank him for raising this very important matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maurice Quinlivan  As stated, good progress has been made regarding transport in the mid-west, but we still lag way behind other areas across the State. Last year, I published a report on bus infrastructure in areas on the north side of Limerick City. It clearly showed that working class areas lack basic services and that they had no bus stops, signage or bus shelters. Some work was done on the back of that report. Some of the signage has been put up in the Ballynanty area where I live and where was no bus stop or signage previously.  I want to mention the 303 bus route that runs from Ros M\u00f3r to Kileely to Moyross. There is a very good and reliable bus service on that route, with buses leaving every 15 minutes. We are doing an active travel scheme in the area at the moment. What they have done with the route, with buses coming onto O\u2019Callaghan Avenue from Kileely and then onto the High Road and Thomond at Johnseys shop, is very dangerous. The road has been narrowed so much that buses have to mount the footpaths on both sides. Somebody is going to get seriously injured unless something is done. The engineers involved in the active travel scheme have told me that they will look at what has happened when the project is finished. We cannot wait for that. The other day, someone walking on the footpath was nearly killed. That because buses cannot turn the corner without mounting the footpath on one side or the other. Buses often bypass this area, which they are supposed to serve, on their way to Moyross.  In the absence of BusConnects being done, I call on the Minister of State to ensure that the bus service in the St. Mary\u2019s Park and Garryowen areas is extended and that a proper service is provided. There is a bus service in place, but it comes to an end at 6 p.m. each day.  We also need a bus service for the Condell Road. We cannot wait for that. There is potential for the bus that serves Pineview Gardens to also serve Condell Road. When the Knockalisheen Road is opened, this problem could be solved. If we really want people to use bus services - I do and I use buses when I can - they have to be safe, reliable and affordable. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jerry Buttimer  The Deputy is correct. Bus services need to be safe, reliable and accessible. I will take the points he made about the areas he mentioned back to the Minister.  The Deputy referred to active travel. There needs to be collaboration between the NTA and the city and county council with regard to the issue to which he referred, particularly in the context of safety. If we are doing active travel, it makes no sense for it not to be safe for road users, pedestrians and, in particular, bus users. I take the Deputy\u2019s point in that regard and commend him on the work he has done.  The ambition is that there will be a 70% increase in bus services in Limerick. It is about accessibility. I genuinely believe that those who offer bus services across the country do not discriminate on the basis of eircodes or people's location. It is about ensuring that the have shorter waits and more direct routes and about making the network simpler, with a schedule that meets demand. It is also about the out-of-hours time, as the Deputy said, and about having additional services available, whether that is at weekends or in the evening. As Minister of State with responsibility for rural transport, I have seen the success of rural transport. People will use it if it is provided.  Limerick has been leading the way in some areas, including in the context of electric buses. It has 61 zero-emission buses. The NDP to be issued later this year will outline in more detail the aspects of BusConnects Limerick that will be advanced in the period to 2030.  I will take the points the Deputy has made back to the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Brien, and the NTA. It was the issue of the 303 route that he highlighted most, and I will bring that back.  Limerick has been leading the way in some of the areas including electrified buses. It has 61 zero-emission buses. The detailed NDP later this year will outline in more detail the aspects of BusConnects Limerick that will be advanced in the funding to 2030. I will take the points the Deputy has made today back to the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Brien, and to the NTA. It was the issue of the 303 that he highlighted most and I will bring that back.  The Leas-Cheann Comhairle referred to bus services in Kilkenny at Question Time last week. People want to use public transport. We have provided it. The Ministers in the Department work with the NTA. It is about an implementation plan or a roadmap to ensure the new network, in Limerick, in Deputy Quinlivan\u2019s case, is not only being worked on but that new services that can be rolled out incrementally on new routes will be delivered. It is also about staffing and resources being available, particularly drivers. Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire, who is seated behind Deputy Quinlivan, will know that in Cork we have an issue with staffing in the context of mechanics and drivers.  I will certainly bring Deputy Quinlivan\u2019s remarks back to the Minister. I again thank him for raising the matter. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Bus Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Medicinal Products","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_10","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan  I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, for coming in to take this matter, which relates to the drug Pluvicto. This drug is for men suffering with prostate cancer. It was granted European Medical Agency, EMA, approval back in 2022. The HSE received an application for reimbursement on 9 January 2023. A rapid review was commenced shortly thereafter, on 10 February 2023. It was decided in March 2023 that a full higher technical assessment, HTA, was required in order to assess the efficacy of the drug. That assessment took the best part of 15 months to complete. A final HTA was completed in August 2024, when it was recommended that Pluvicto not to be reimbursed. That recommendation went forward to the drugs group, which followed through with its decision on the basis that it believed the therapy does not represent optimal use of limited HSE resources. That negative recommendation went forward to the HSE senior management team, which, as one would expect following a negative recommendation from the two subcommittees under it, followed through with its own refusal.  In the period that followed, 40 specialist consultants in oncology and radiology wrote a letter to the then chief executive of the HSE, Bernard Gloster, pleading with him to make the drug available to men suffering with prostate cancer. It has the potential to prolong their lives and has been described as a significant breakthrough. The consultants in question also highlighted that similar drugs are available to other men with similar prostate cancer conditions, which just deepened the inequitable situation whereby some people were able to avail of drugs while others were prevented from doing so.  The Minister of State is probably fed up with me coming in here looking for various drugs to be reimbursed. In that context, this drug is available in ten other European countries. I just checked my phone and discovered that it is available in France, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Czechia, Slovenia, Greece, Spain, Germany and Great Britain. It is not just big countries, because Switzerland, Austria, Belgium and Slovenia have made it available.  I am here again beating the same drug. I commend the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, regarding the review she instigated. To be fair, she put her money where her mouth is. I look forward to that review being completed. I believe it has gone out to tender and will happen by the end of this year. Nevertheless, here we are again. I do not want to hear that what is happening in this instance is the fault of the drug company involved, the HSE or the National Centre for Pharmacoeconomics, NCPE. That drug was approved by the EMA in 2022 and an application in respect of it was made in January 2023. Fast forward three and a half years, and people still do not have access to a cancer drug that could save their lives and that is widely available in other European countries. Here we are again, talking about Ireland being behind the curve.  There will be a litany of reasons given as to why it has taken this long to get to this point. Ultimately, the drugs group and the HSE senior management team have decided not to reimburse the drug. Over the past few years, this Government and that which preceded it have approved more of these rare disease drugs than was the case over the previous decade. In the past three years, more of them have been approved than ever before. That is down to money. I am not asking for extra money. I am not trying to bankrupt the HSE, blow its budget or to do any of the other things I am being accused of. What I am asking for is a fairer apportionment of the existing drugs budget in this country. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the Minister of State will know that we are working with Friedreich\u2019s ataxia patients who are undergoing a similar process regarding reimbursement of the drug Skyclarys, which, I understand, will be deal with by the drugs group shortly. Still, here we are again. How many more patients' groups or cohorts of people will have to plead for much-needed access to quality drugs? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor)  Since I have known him, the Deputy has consistently come to the D\u00e1il and raised issues relating to rare diseases. He has worked so hard not just in respect of this particular drug but also in respect of several others. I thank him for his commitment and his hard work on this. I know he is constantly meeting the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill.  The State acknowledges the importance of access to medicines. This Government is committed to providing timely access to new and innovative medicines and has made considerable investments in recent years, with annual expenditure on medicines now almost \u20ac4 billion. This means that nearly \u20ac1 in every \u20ac8 of public funding is being spent on health. This level of investment is unprecedented in supporting patients through the availability of new and innovative medicines.  The budgets for the period between 2021 to 2025 included dedicated funding of \u20ac158 million for new medicines.  Budget 2026 allocated an additional \u20ac30 million of funding for new drugs out of \u20ac217 million in additional funding for drugs. This has enabled the HSE to approve reimbursement for 276 new medicines or new uses for existing medicines, including 110 for treating cancer and 75 for treating rare diseases. The HSE has statutory responsibility for decisions on pricing and reimbursement of medicines and medical items, in accordance with the Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Act 2013. In line with the Act a company must submit an application to the HSE to have a new medicine added to the formal reimbursement list. I know the Deputy is aware of this. Pluvicto is a medicine used to treat prostate cancer. It is indicated for certain adult patients with prostate cancer who have previously been treated with AR pathway inhibition and taxane-based chemotherapy.  The medicine was granted marketing authorisation by the European Medicines Agency in September 2022, following a positive opinion from the Committee for Medicinal Products for Human Use. The centralised procedure results in a single EU-wide marketing authorisation valid across all EU member states. On 9 January 2023, the HSE received an application from Advanced Accelerator Applications, a Novartis company, for pricing and reimbursement of the drug. The drugs group is the national committee the HSE has in place to make recommendations on the pricing and reimbursement of medicines. The membership of the HSE drugs group includes clinical experts and public interest members. The HSE drugs group considers all of the evidence and makes a recommendation to the HSE senior leadership team. The clinical and economic evidence for this treatment was comprehensively and extensively reviewed by the drugs group at the April 2025 meeting. Evidence considered included a HTA report from the NCPE, a patient interest group submission, two additional clinical representations, and advice from the national cancer control programme technology review committee, an expert group whose membership includes clinicians specialising in oncology. The decision-making authority in the HSE is the HSE senior management team, which decides whether it can fund a new medicine. The senior management team supported the drugs group recommendation not to reimburse this treatment. The HSE corporate pharmaceutical unit issued a formal written notice of proposal to the applicant on Tuesday, 5 May 2026. The applicant has since met with the CPU, and it has submitted a commercial offer that remains under consideration. The HSE cannot comment on potential outcomes of this application. That information is important. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan  I have asked many parliamentary questions on this over the past few years. Very little has changed. The only thing that gives me hope is that the company has since met the CPU and submitted a commercial offer that remains under consideration. I am not asking for special treatment for any drug. These are all subject to commercial sensitivity. I am asking for fairness. This process started in January 2023, so we are here three and a half years later. They should be given a final response one way or another. That is all I ask for, good, bad or indifferent at this stage. People need to be put out of their misery. We can go on about the savings achieved in that timeline because this drug was not made available. That is probably because people have died because of the lack of access to it, truth be told. Those are the facts.  I am not asking for special treatment. I have spoken consistently in the House about systems change. I hope to God the review the Minister commissioned brings the systems change I would like to see. Dozens of other countries do this in a better way than we do. We can continue to put up the front that we are one of the best at negotiating and we get the best price and the best value for drugs, but ultimately as a society we have to ask ourselves at what cost. Unfortunately, in this case it is at the cost of lives. I made a comment about the Skyclarys campaign. I know the Minister of State has to be careful what she says because it is due before the drugs group. I again make the case that these people just want a hearing as expeditiously as possible. Like I said, nine other European countries have approved that drug apart from the United States and a few other countries internationally. When are we going to step up to the plate with drugs like Skyclarys for Friedreich's ataxia patients? I know the Minister of State has constituents of her own and it is close to her heart. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor  Two new frameworks are agreed with Medicines for Ireland. This is the Irish pharmaceutical healthcare association on the supply and pricing of medicines. These have been successfully reached following extensive negotiation with the pharmaceutical sector. These two new framework agreements will change things. A tender for conducting this review was published on Monday, 15 June. Once commenced, the project timeline is between six and nine months. Together these measures will enable faster access to medicines for patients in Ireland. I thank the Deputy for this.  I will talk about my own constituency. I have met with a lot of families in Carlow affected by Friedreich's ataxia, particularly Emily and Ois\u00edn. As the Deputy said, it is important. The next HSE drugs group is meeting on Tuesday, 14 July and that will be discussed. Skyclarys is on the agenda for that meeting. It is important because I have met with so many families in Carlow-Kilkenny and with constituents who need this drug. These families are waiting to get it urgently. Like everything, there is due diligence and funding is always spoken about. It is important that we know we have the date for it. The meeting is on Tuesday, 14 July with the drugs group and Skyclarys is on the agenda for that group meeting.  I will bring all of the Deputy's important issues and concerns on timing to the Minister, Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill. Unfortunately, she could not take this Topical Issue. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Medicinal Products"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_10","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Last night we had a debate on childcare. During the course of that I made the point that July and August can be stressful times for parents as they try to figure out a patchwork quilt of different types of care as school finishes and there are camps and things like that. The stress of that is multiplied by two, three and ten for parents of children with special educational needs. The Topical Issue I submitted is about the summer provision programme.  While the summer provision scheme obviously cannot be precisely the same as school, it is meant to offer a certain amount of continuity for children, staff and families in terms of the support, care and education those children get during the course of the summer. Unfortunately, despite the fact that this is an annual debate, there still seem to be huge anomalies, discrepancies, things that are difficult to understand and shortfalls in time, hours and provision.  I was prompted to raise this in the context of an issue in a particular school. I was contacted by a parent and a teacher about a school where two children who had visual impairment were not going to be allowed access the programme because of a lack of SNA support. Trying to get that addressed was something the school had been chasing over the course of two or three weeks, and it received no response from the Department. In the interim, I have learned since submitting this matter that some additional resources have been allocated, but the fundamental point in terms of structure is that this school found it difficult to get answers. Time will tell whether the provision is adequate for those particular children. It still speaks to a fundamental point with regard to the programme as a whole.  I will give a number of examples. There seems to be a big issue with special schools in particular. Some parents have told me there was a delayed release of funding, which has led to some schools struggling to ensure staff are provided. There is a particular frustration with the reduced length of the day for special schools for 2026, continuing for the past number of years. The Department's position is that this is from stakeholder feedback. A lot of parents say that this really has not changed since Covid. The kind of feedback that might be talked about could go back that far. There is obviously a discrepancy with the special schools.  For them, it is from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m., whereas mainstream schools with special classes or units attached to schools do full-time hours in many instances. Not every school does, but they are in a position to offer the full four weeks with full hours. The guidance for special schools seems to be that there is no scope for the provision of that.  There is also an issue with the window, which was shorter this year than last year - only ten days, when previously it was two weeks. It was opened quite late this year, towards the end of June, whereas last year it was open in May. A lot of parents who are looking to avail of summer provision do not have the opportunity. They are being offered a home-based programme, but that is only for ten hours per week for four weeks compared to either 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. in the special schools or for the full hours in some of the mainstream schools with special classes attached. There are different anomalies affecting different categories of parents, leading to an awful lot of parents not getting the support they ought to get. It was very late when they found out what would be available. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Education and Youth (Deputy Michael Moynihan)  I thank the Deputy very much for raising the summer programme. I will set out the details of the scheme in the first instance and then I will respond to the specific points raised.  The summer programme is hugely valued across the Government and by families and school communities. It is a vital and targeted intervention for the education of children with special educational needs and those affected by educational disadvantage. It is delivered during the summer months to ensure that children with additional needs or who are disadvantaged have continuity. There is an emphasis on different things in each of the schools.  Since 2021, the Department of Education and Youth's inspectorate has evaluated the summer programme and the findings consistently highlight the positive impact on many children and young people who have taken part. Parents, staff and children themselves report improvement in confidence, attitude and readiness to return to school in September. The continued emphasis on the summer programme is to mitigate against the impact of learning loss on those children while schools are closed. An increase in the educational needs prevalence rate, particularly in autism, and the presentation of children with more complex needs has meant that the summer programme is now more important than ever.  The details of the summer programme were communicated to stakeholders, including the schools, in May of this year. While acknowledging that the details of the programme are technically announced earlier, the Department has continually kept in touch with the educational stakeholders querying when the programme might be announced. This ensured that the schools understood that it would be forthcoming and that they could start their preparation. As a result, and as the Deputy said, the online portal was open for ten days. Following feedback from schools in particular in relation to that, the portal was opened again to allow more schools to apply and get on board with the summer programme.  We have more school-based schemes this year than in 2025. That is hugely welcome and means that more primary, post-primary and special schools are engaging in the summer programme. The applications for home-based programmes also significantly increased on last year. A number of schools, including one cited by the Deputy, went back to the Department looking for extra staffing and resources. I understand that a lot of those requests have been met at this stage in terms of giving the resources.  In response to the points the Deputy makes, I understand the value of the summer programme. It is a hugely valued piece. It is vital that this valued resource be targeted at children with additional needs and those who are in disadvantage. While we have expanded the numbers quite considerably in recent years, we must ensure that we are targeting those who are most in need. I agree that we need to have the programme opened earlier and for a longer period. We had engagement between the Department and the stakeholders right through the year to say that the programme would be forthcoming but we need to make sure that there is a timeline for the schools because school communities are working extremely hard, in particular when it comes to the year end. Many school communities refer to it as \"mad May\". I take that point, which was made very clearly.  If it is okay with the Deputy, I might come back to a number of the points he raised about special schools and so forth in the closing remarks. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Will the Minister of State take away a couple of points? While the issue I raised was resolved ultimately, that does appear to have been after the last minute, as it was after the provision had already begun on Monday. It was only today that I learned that additional resources were provided yesterday. It should not have come to that. It should not have been the case that two sets of parents were faced with a situation where children with visual impairments were potentially not going to be able to avail of the summer provision because of a lack of SNA supports.  Parents of children with special educational needs constantly feel a number of things: first, that they have to fight for absolutely everything; and, second, that there is a constant cycle whereby every spring there is a debate on special classes and every summer there is a debate on summer provision. That is despite the fact that the planning for these should be improving all the time, yet for parents it seems as if the same debate repeats itself and there is not any advance.  I want the Minister of State to take away in particular the point about special schools being able to offer full-time hours. Not every special class attached to a mainstream school offers full-time hours but the school has the option. However, it is not part of the guidance available to special schools, which operate between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. Those children and their parents need the support the most, as the children struggle the most with the change in the pattern of their day.  I want to briefly raise the matter of children with special educational needs. Gaelscoil U\u00ed Riada serves the Bishopstown and Wilton areas in the south-west of Cork city. Its application for two additional classrooms for special classes under the additional school accommodation, ASA, scheme was rejected. Will the Minister of State push for that within the Department? The Department keeps talking about modular units rather than an extension but there is not the space for them. It is a tight, city-based site. It is crucial to ensure that the school can offer additional special education classes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  I will take the points back in relation to the Gaelscoil.  Some 1,800 schools and 71,000 children are participating in the scheme this year. Going back five years, there were 545 schools with 23,000 children. We have seen a 210% increase in participation. That gives a sense of the Government's commitment to the scheme. There are issues in regard to the special classes, schools in disadvantaged areas and special schools. The teams that work in special schools are superhuman beings because they work with the most vulnerable children, who sometimes have a very high dependency. They work extremely hard.  I have had lengthy engagements with the special school community in recent weeks. We met the principals of all the schools who spoke about the challenges they had within their schools and communities. We will reflect on those points. As well as that, we want to make sure that the summer programme is a hugely important and embedded piece in special education and disadvantaged education now and into the future. We must be open to an evaluation of it and to how we are going to roll it out over the coming years to make sure that we are targeting the resources to the people who need them most. There are a number of points ongoing in that regard.  While we engaged with the school communities and the stakeholders on the scheme, which we said would be open \u2013 there was no question but that it would be running this year \u2013 we need to make sure that we start earlier. Schools and school communities are working extremely hard right up to the year end. We need to reflect very carefully on that.  I will give due reflection to the piece about the hours. A number of parents contacted me about that as well. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Schools Building Projects","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_10","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I thank the Minister of State for being here to take this Topical Issue debate. I want to raise the matter of the proposed amalgamation of two schools in the lower harbour area of Cork. These are Ringaskiddy national school and Shanbally National School. This is a project that has been in the pipeline for many years but, unfortunately, remains effectively stalled and has been so for the past number of years. There is very little progress to show.  I thank the Minister of State for visiting the school in Shanbally in recent months and seeing at first hand the condition of the school building. It is a school with nine classrooms, six of them prefabs. Many of these prefabs are old and in very poor condition with sagging ceilings, collapsing floors, dampness, electrical issues, and health and safety issues. Similar significant issues arise in Ringaskiddy. Neither school got much investment in recent years because this amalgamation was proposed and supposedly happening. The teachers, principals, students, parents and communities have to put up with two schools that are simply not fit for purpose in terms of the educational needs of today. In terms of size, Shanbally National School has just under 200 students and Ringaskiddy national school is smaller, with about 60 students.  Despite all I have outlined about the conditions of the buildings, they are fantastic schools that provide an outstanding educational service. They provide a very strong emphasis on special education, also. They are wonderful schools for any child to go to despite the issues with the physical buildings. The teaching staff are outstanding and the school communities, atmospheres and learning environments are second to none.  As I have outlined, the project seems to be stalled. It is to be delivered under phase 2 of the Department's accelerated delivery of architectural planning and tendering, ADAPT, 4 programme. A project manager was appointed in the third quarter of 2023, which is more than three years ago. This person had the task of preparing documentation for the tender process and the appointment of an integrated project team. I am anxious to get an update on the tender process. As the Minister of State can appreciate, there is deep frustration that it has taken so long after the appointment of the project manager to progress with the tender phase of the project.  When I raised this matter as a Topical Issue just over six months ago in December 2025, the reply at the time was very much focused on the fact that there was an issue with the site. I reiterate that there is absolutely no issue with the site. To give the history briefly, a site was acquired a number of years ago but it was then acquired for the M28 project and the construction of the motorway. A different site has now been identified and IDA Ireland is in the process of transferring it to the council, which will then transfer it to the diocesan office. This is at an advanced stage and the council is finalising the acquisition of the site.  I have it in writing from the council that it will fully co-operate with any planning application and any design work. The site itself will not be an issue and there will not be a delay. I really do not want the Department to use the site as a delaying tactic because there is no reason whatsoever that the project cannot proceed through the design and planning phase. The school site will be fully acquired and in the possession of the diocesan office so that it can progress with this project.  I would like an update on the overall project. The Minister of State visited the school in Shanbally and saw at first hand its condition. He will accept that the schools are not acceptable, given the standard of education we expect for our children and the standard of the environment and school buildings they attend. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  I thank Deputy McGrath for his question. I visited the school in Shanbally and saw the condition of it. I saw the excellent work being done by the school community - the teachers, the SNAs and everybody involved - and the commitment those people have to education. Both schools are co-education primary schools catering for boys and girls from junior to sixth class. Both schools have agreed to amalgamate, with a new school building to be constructed. The new school is expected to be located on a six-acre site that is privately owned. If I understand it correctly, this will be transferred to the council and then to the diocesan trust. This is a very important element and I will certainly relay the comments of Deputy McGrath back to the planning and building unit. A lot of the time, technical transfers are slow and cumbersome. When the transfer is made to the diocesan trust, we can make the decisions; we will have the site and we can move on to the next level.  Both schools are in separate buildings and Deputy McGrath understands all of this quite well. What we need to do today is make sure that we have the pieces together to move it on. I saw the condition of the school in Shanbally. Something needs to be done in the Department. We have project managers and others in place for this project. From what I have heard from Deputy McGrath today, the transfer of the site is progressing through various stages. If there is further documentation or information that Deputy McGrath can bring to the table, I would appreciate it in terms of the timeline, as we could then put it on the table and say that the site was moving forward. We could then move to the next stage.  With the best will in the world, there are a number of stages to go through, including planning and design. I know that Deputy McGrath will work with the local authority to ensure it passes through this stage. The local authority is very open to it and it understands it. The site has been earmarked. Without going through all of the detail, the brief is for 16 classrooms, as Deputy McGrath is well aware. This is about the amalgamation of both schools. Deputy McGrath indicated that there were about 200 pupils in one school and 60 in the other. This is very important for education, not alone now, but in future. If I could get sight of the transfer documents, I could then take them to the planning and building unit and we could ensure that a speedy response is given as fast as possible. We often talk about delays and legal issues but we have to try to cut through this. I have seen for myself the situation and I will certainly do what we can in the Department to move the project on. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I thank the Minister of State. I want to put on the record my appreciation for the Minister of State taking the time to visit the school. He visited Shanbally National School and heard about Ringaskiddy national school and the conditions there, and about how critical this project was.  I want to be absolutely clear about the land and I can furnish documentation to the Minister of State. A response from a senior person in Cork County Council states that, while finalisation of the acquisition is taking place and in advance of the formal transfer of land subject to section 183, Cork County Council will support any planning application submitted in respect of the new school and will also provide a letter of consent to accompany the planning submission at the appropriate time. There is no reason whatsoever that the land issue should cause any delay.  I notice from the reply this evening, which is deeply disappointing, that we do not appear to have progressed in the tender process since December last year. It is the exact same update, stating that the project manager was appointed in the third quarter of 2023 and was in the process of preparing documentation for the tender process for the appointment of an integrated project team. That is the exact same language as in the reply I received in December 2025. This is deeply frustrating and it is very difficult for me as a public representative to go back to the communities, principals, parents and teaching staff and say that this project has not moved forward. I do not want to be disingenuous, and I hope work is progressing on the tender process, but the reply seems to be the exact same, which is very frustrating.  To reiterate, the project is vital for these two school communities. The conditions they operate in at present are not acceptable. It has been promised for many years. This project has been in the pipeline for in excess of 15 years. There was an issue with the original site not being available because of the motorway project, which was facilitated. I plead with the Minister of State to go back to the Department and ensure that we progress the project once and for all and that the school communities - students, parents, families, teaching staff, principals and everyone else - have buildings that are suitable for the educational requirements of these children. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  I accept that.  The Department is very committed to this. It has carried out a survey and the reports are very clear that this project must go ahead. There were delays over 15 years. The frustration in relation to a project like this is sometimes about it taking so much time. The point is, though, that we need to have sight of the exact legal situation because to progress the project to the tender documents and planning stages, we would have to be 100% certain. I would appreciate if I could get the document the Deputy read from, because I would like to try to get that in and to try to start moving.  This is a fundamental aspect. I am referring to the site, the land and the history with other sites and so forth. We have to have that information as the underpinning that will allow us to move forward. If we go to planning, tender and other stages, we must make sure that we have ownership of the site. This is the fundamental aspect to moving the project to the next stage. There is a lot of work ready to go. The specification in terms of what is being designed there - the 16 classrooms and all of that - exists, but we need to have certainty about the site.  I will take that document from the Deputy and any other supporting documentation he has. I will raise this issue and push it as hard as I can with the planning and building unit in the Department. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Schools Building Projects"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"School Accommodation","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_10","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Topical Issue Debate (Resumed)"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  The Minister of State will have received the letter this week requesting a meeting between him and the TDs from Cork North-Central in relation to Scoil Padre Pio. We had a very important meeting on Monday with the principal, Ms Sin\u00e9ad Elliffe, where she outlined that the school had been waiting and was now caught in limbo. The school\u2019s extension was approved in 2019. The school has now gone through the whole design process and has gone back and forth with the Department, and as far as the school is concerned, it is done. It has, though, not been able to get anyone to sign off on that design.  Scoil Padre Pio, then, is one of the schools stuck in the dreaded stage 2A. It is like a wasteland for schools. They go away and do the work, and then they are caught there. This is not the situation of Scoil Padre Pio alone. We also have Gaelscoil Pheig Sayers, which got approval for a new school in 2022, but it has been unable to get a response from the Department for the last 12 months. We have Scoil Chro\u00ed \u00cdosa stuck at the same stage. Then there is St. Killian's Special School, Gaelscoil an Chaisle\u00e1in and Le Ch\u00e9ile Secondary School. A 15-acre site was purchased in Ballincollig in 2024, and there has still been no progress. Ballincollig is an area that is expanding hugely. There is a desperate need for school places, but once again this is stuck in limbo. There are ten schools in my constituency on the list for large-scale building projects and another 21 on the list for additional accommodation. Not one large-scale building project has been delivered in Cork North-Central since 2020. There have been 11 smaller scale accommodation projects.  We have seen other schools that cannot even get onto the list. These include Scoil Barra, Clogheen Kerry Pike National School, Scoil Eoin and the Convent Primary School in Mallow. Despite the huge efforts made by their principals, these are schools that cannot even get on the radar of the Department, whatever that is about. I have visited some of these schools and seen the holes in the floors and the roofs and the dangerous steps that cannot be used by children. I am speaking about brilliant principals, teachers, SNAs and kids. These are kids who are being failed by Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael in government because they are being educated in rooms and prefabs that are not fit for education. On one hand, the Government is recognising the needs of these children. On the other hand, it is letting them remain in accommodation that is unsuitable for children.  I will give the Minister of State an example. Scoil Padre Pio was one of the first schools in Cork to take on additional autism spectrum disorder, ASD, classes. It led the way. It was seen to do unbelievable work. Prefabs went in there 21 years ago. I met a man who told me he was educated in those prefabs and now his son is being educated in the same prefabs. Does the Minister of State know that the Government is after spending \u20ac1.5 million on those prefabs? Almost \u20ac100,000 is being spent each year. What a waste of money that is. This project could have been delivered for \u20ac2.5 million in 2019. Does the Minister of State know what the cost is now? It is \u20ac7 million. The longer the Government delays, the more the cost goes up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I thank Deputy Gould. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  We have a brilliant school that is dealing with some of the most vulnerable kids, both mainstream and special classes. They are being failed by this Government. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  I thank the Deputy very much for the question. He mentioned a number of schools, and I definitely will go back over them. The Deputy's question, though, was on the numbers of schools in County Cork at stage 2A. The Department has a strong track record of delivering the school building programme, with over \u20ac6.9 billion invested in the last six years. This has delivered approximately 1,400 completed school building projects and over 4,000 smaller improvement projects. Over \u20ac796 million in capital funding has been invested in County Cork schools since 2020. In this period, a total of 168 schools in County Cork have been upgraded either through the provision of a new school building, a large-scale extension or the provision of modular accommodation. There are also currently 18 school projects in County Cork under construction. In late 2025, 35 schools were approved to undergo works as part of the climate action summer works scheme. In addition, since 2020, a total of 375 special classes have been sanctioned in Cork, of which 69 were sanctioned for September 2026.  Under the national development plan, NDP, sectoral investment plan for education and youth, \u20ac5 billion is allocated to project roll-out to modernise and expand school infrastructure. A first tranche of 105 school building projects has been published to proceed to construction or tender in the 2026-27 period. These projects were already at tender or advanced detailed design stage 2B, thereby prioritising urgent capacity pressures and special education needs. This list includes 12 projects in County Cork, which represents just over 10% of the projects within the first tranche.  Prioritised projects continue to be progressed through earlier stages of the design pipeline, with a focus on special schools; schools fully in interim accommodation with an urgent requirement for permanent accommodation; projects delivering significant special education capacity; additional accommodation required to cater for demographic growth in an area; and projects dealing with the most significant condition issues.  As part of the Department-led prioritisation process that is under way for 2026 and 2027, consultation with school patrons began this month. A further tranche of priority projects is targeted for publication in 2027, informed by departmental analysis, engagement with the patrons and schools, funding parameters and, where relevant, the Department\u2019s energy and condition inventory of the school estate, and this is due for completion by year end. Projects will need to be at an appropriate stage of readiness to be considered. In particular, projects already at stage 2A are well positioned for inclusion in the next tranche.  There are currently 47 projects progressing through stage 2A of the architectural planning process in County Cork, reflecting solid momentum within the county\u2019s school building pipeline. All projects continue to undergo detailed technical and cost assessment in line with Government infrastructure guidelines, with progression managed carefully across the wider capital programme. Departmental officials have recently intensified engagement with schools whose stage 2A reports have been under examination for some time, ensuring that each project is fully considered within overall prioritisation and programme management.  I must say that there is huge engagement within the Department. I take the points the Deputy made in relation to the schools he mentioned and the prefabs. I take that issue in relation to prefabs very seriously because I see this right across the country. The Deputy mentioned a number of schools and I will follow up in regard to them. There is, though, solid investment in the city and county of Cork. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  I have the printout of the schools here.  They include St. Killian\u2019s Special School, stage 2A, Gaelscoil Pheig Sayers, stage 2A, Scoil Chro\u00ed \u00cdosa, stage 2A, Gaelscoil an Chaisle\u00e1in, stage 1, Col\u00e1iste an Phiarsaigh, stage 2B, and Scoil Mhuire, stage 2B. Then there are Cork Educate Secondary School and Le Ch\u00e9ile Secondary School, Ballincollig, stage 1, and Col\u00e1iste Choilm, stage 2B. When are these to move on to the next stage?  The Minister of State came in here and gave me a list. I have a list, too. All these schools are crying out for support and funding to move on to the next stage. I also have another list. I care about the two lists because they contain the schools in my area, Cork North-Central, which I was elected to come in here and speak for. There are four capital projects in Cork North-Central, none of which is large scale. Where are the large-scale projects that the Minister of State outlined for my community and for the children in my area? There are two new schools in Cork South-Central. What we are looking for on the northside are four small-scale projects, four extensions, but where is the commitment from the Department to move them on from stage 2A or stage 2B?  Scoil Padre Pio has waited for seven years. Is that acceptable? Deputy Moynihan is the Minister of State. I am asking him a straight question because I do not believe the wait is acceptable. Gaelscoil Pheig Sayers has been waiting for years. Is that acceptable? These are schools in my area and they are crying out. St. Killian\u2019s Special School, one of the best schools in the country, is crying out. Will the Minister of State give a commitment here today to ensure all these projects progress? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  The only way we can give a commitment is by allocating sufficient funding within the Department. There has been a huge amount of continued investment in the school estate. There are literally billions of euro being spent across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  Not in Churchfield. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  To be fair now, the question I was asked to respond to was in relation to investment in County Cork. There has been considerable investment right across the education system, and the Department of education has full sight of it. I acknowledge the frustration of schools that urgently need to progress to the next stage, but there has been serious engagement over recent weeks and months on how we are going to prioritise and make sure our investment in 2027 addresses the most critical points, such as the condition of buildings. We have also prioritised ensuring special education is put at the centre of capital expenditure across the education system. We are building capacity for special education at both primary and post-primary levels, and indeed in special schools.  It is not true to say the Department is not spending money. There is a huge investment commitment in the national development plan. That is cold comfort for the communities the Deputy mentioned, one of which has been waiting for four years and another for seven. We should be targeting our resources to ensure that the condition of buildings does not deteriorate to such an extent that we have to do massive jobs on them. We should be investing earlier. Under the national development plan, we have committed serious money for the coming years, and we will be working with the schools. The Deputy mentioned a number of schools. I certainly will reflect on those and on the special schools. We have 20 of them open. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"School Accommodation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"Ireland's EU Presidency: Statements","counts":{"speechCount":22,"speakerCount":22},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Helen McEntee)  I mo ch\u00e1il mar Aire Gn\u00f3tha\u00ed Eachtracha agus Tr\u00e1d\u00e1la, is geal liom go bhfuil deis agam inniu aitheasc a thabhairt os comhair na D\u00e1la, ar an gc\u00e9ad l\u00e1 d\u2019ocht\u00fa hUachtar\u00e1nacht na h\u00c9ireann ar Chomhairle an Aontais Eorpaigh. As Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, I welcome the opportunity to address the D\u00e1il today, the first day of Ireland\u2019s eighth Presidency of the Council of the EU. I thank colleagues for attending the opening ceremony but particularly wish to use this opportunity to thank the wonderful choir, Defence Forces band, artists and singers, in particular those who contributed today. They really added to the sense of occasion and gave people a sense of what was to come in the months ahead.  We take on the Presidency role at a crucial time for Europe. Why do I say that? The EU is navigating its most turbulent geopolitical era in decades, defined by Russian aggression in Ukraine, escalating conflicts in the Middle East and a volatile global trade environment. We are facing an environment where economic interdependence is frequently weaponised, challenging our traditional reliance on a strictly rules-based international order.  Across the Union, we are responding by strengthening our economic resilience, advancing the green and digital transitions and reaffirming our commitment to democratic values and the rule of law. Our Presidency provides Ireland with a platform and an opportunity to lead member states in this response, seeking to build consensus on how we respond to the challenges facing Europe, how we deliver practical progress on behalf of all European citizens and how, importantly, we seize the opportunities available to us.  Ireland brings to this role a strong track record as a committed and constructive member state of the EU. Our experience, values and diplomatic tradition equip us well to navigate the complexities of the Presidency. For me, this is not just an institutional obligation; it is a profound personal responsibility. The Irish Presidency will be guided by the old Irish proverb \"N\u00ed neart go cur le ch\u00e9ile\", and our guiding star will be just that: strength in unity. As holders of the Presidency, we will lead a collective effort, and we know we can depend on the support and co-operation of our fellow member states as we work together in the interests of people, communities and businesses right across Europe.  We will build on the excellent work of the Cypriot Presidency, which has guided the agenda of the Council so effectively throughout the first half of 2026. It has achieved significant progress in many areas. I again thank it and my colleagues for the huge amount of work done over the six months. In turn, we will seek to lay strong foundations for further progress in important areas of policy during the Presidency terms of our Trio partners, in other words working closely with Lithuania and Greece. The Irish EU Presidency will focus its efforts on enhancing the competitiveness of our economy, safeguarding the values of our Union at home and abroad, and providing for the security of our citizens.  These core themes \u2013 competitiveness, values and security \u2013 are closely interlinked. They are mutually reinforcing. They will guide our work across all dimensions of our Presidency role. We will also strive for progress in a number of important areas which link all three of these thematic pillars. These include the Union\u2019s ongoing support for Ukraine and our global engagement and relationships with key partners. This was reiterated in our engagement today with President Zelenskyy, who was very welcome here as part of our opening ceremony.  As Members will be aware, the specific objectives we will pursue in our Presidency are set out in detail in the policy programme we published last month. In order to deliver a secure economic future, one that meets the needs and expectations of its people, Europe must act urgently to enhance its competitiveness and productivity. The Irish Presidency aims to make decisive progress in strengthening Europe\u2019s competitiveness, focusing on the blueprint for action that was agreed by the Council, the European Parliament and the Commission in the One Europe, One Market roadmap. This will be a core priority for our Presidency. Given the urgency of the task and the fact we have discussed and debated many of these issues for some time now, the targets, while ambitious and challenging, are ones we are certainly ambitious in wanting to achieve. Success will require all member states and each institution to work purposefully together in a spirit of co-operation and compromise in the interests of every citizen and business right across the Union.  Our work will be guided by five strategic building blocks. First, we will work to simplify rules to ensure a smarter, more coherent regulatory framework for citizens and businesses and reduce unnecessary administrative burdens. This is not about reducing or getting rid of regulation; it is about better regulation overall.  The Single Market is the foundation of Europe\u2019s economy and prosperity. Under our second strategic building block, the Irish Presidency will work to eliminate barriers, tackle regulatory burdens, boost Internal Market trade, drive digital transformation and ensure a level playing field for businesses operating across the EU.  Third, we must match our global diplomatic strategy with a bold, enterprising economic vision. Faced with rising trade uncertainty and fragmentation, we need to be more driven and adaptive than ever before.  Our Presidency will pursue an ambitious, open, rules- and values-based trade policy agenda that supports European competitiveness, resilience and economic security, and strengthens our trade relationships with reliable global partners. I will take responsibility for driving this in my role as chair of the meetings of EU trade ministers, including the informal meeting in Dublin in October.  We will work to strengthen our trade relationships and diversify our markets, advancing trade negotiations with important partners and looking to new markets in Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand and the United Arab Emirates, in line with commitments in the One Europe, One Market roadmap. I will start that engagement next week when I travel to the Gulf to meet with our partners in the region.  We will seek to build an ambitious EU-US trade and investment relationship, building on the work that has been done to date, including the ongoing implementation of the EU-US joint statement, which benefits all of us. We will ensure that the work around the digital dialogue that needs to happen will continue. That is a matter I have been pushing with my colleagues.  Fourth, and crucially, we must step up all efforts to respond to the exceptional energy crisis facing Europe. Geopolitical instability has laid bare our collective vulnerability, making it an absolute diplomatic and economic necessity that we act. We will prioritise work to enhance Europe's security of supply and the development of sustainable, affordable and secure energy systems. During our Presidency, we will support and advance all EU efforts to strengthen economic resilience. Guided by the promote-protect-partner principles that support our economic security, we will work to bolster our supply chain resilience. Through all of these actions, we will lead the way in phasing out dependence on fossil fuel imports and securing long-term economic sovereignty for our partners and our people. We have in the past few months alone seen the impact that the closure of the Strait of Hormuz has had. We saw the impact on fuel prices, commodities and prices more generally. We need to phase out our dependence on external fossil fuel imports.  Fifth, we must look to the horizon and work towards systematically building Europe's digital and technological sovereignty. We are living through an era of unprecedented transformative change. To secure our future, our Presidency will seek to strengthen the EU's capabilities and capacities in cloud computing and artificial intelligence, AI, while firmly advancing the Union's position as a global leader in responsible digital governance. The Irish Presidency will convene governments and global stakeholders for an international AI summit, which will be the flagship business event of our Presidency. This landmark forum will focus on a clear double objective: harnessing immense digital opportunities while empowering our people to thrive in a digital society. Economic leadership in the 21st century requires absolute resilience in our physical and regulatory infrastructure.  Our Presidency will advance work on digital networks, focusing critical investments on subsea telecom connectivity and the security of subsea cables. We will work to create an innovation-friendly regulatory environment that drives strategic sectors, including semiconductors, biotechnology and new technologies, while simultaneously prioritising support for our traditional competitive farming and fishing industries.  The Irish Presidency will continue to advance educational mobility through the Erasmus+ programme, ensuring our workforce is highly skilled and adaptable. Healthy societies are fundamentally productive and competitive. Health innovation is not a secondary concern but a central contributor to Europe's technological leadership. Accordingly, we will prioritise and advance vital legislation on biotechnology and medical devices, driving the long-term innovation, resilience and competitiveness of this indispensable sector. We will also continue to advocate, as I have in recent months, for the development of a task force to set out a more strategic framework for the life science sector - looking at not just the pharmaceutical sector but also the medical technology sector - to ensure we are planning for the future of those importance industries not just for Ireland but for the EU, and doing so in a strategic way. To put it bluntly, we want to ensure that through our competitiveness agenda, in all of the priorities I have outlined and all the actions, policies and legislative files that we progress, we are making it easier for people to do business. It is about removing some of the bureaucracy that we know has come to the fore in recent years. It is about getting rid of duplication. It is about making it easier to access money. It is about supporting business to grow and innovate to allow people to prosper. That is the overall objective and there are many ways in which we intend to do that.  The values that we share are the foundation of our Union. They are part of what makes Europe a good place to live and work, and they underpin our competitiveness and security. Fundamentally, they are the very bedrock of who we are. Our Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities, as enshrined in Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union. These values, mirrored in the UN Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, are the foundation that makes Europe a safe, prosperous place to live and work. They do not weaken us; they underpin our competitiveness and our security. Now more than ever, the EU must defend and vindicate these values.  Our Presidency will make the safety of children online a central priority. We will advocate for an EU-level decision on the digital age of majority, champion robust, privacy-preserving age verification measures, and listen directly to children's views on their own safety.  As Ireland takes on the responsibility of the Council Presidency, our values will be central to our policy. Ukraine continues to endure brutal, illegal Russian aggression against its people and its territory. The war has caused profound human suffering and systematic destruction of Ukraine's infrastructure, economy and environment. During the Irish Presidency, we will work tirelessly to enhance the Union's steadfast support for Ukraine and maintain pressure on Russia to end its brutal war. Continued political, humanitarian, military and financial support for Ukraine, alongside robust sanctions to pressure Russia, remains an absolute priority. We will continue to demand a just and lasting peace, upholding the fundamental principle that borders cannot be changed by force. It is time for Russia to agree to a ceasefire and to engage in meaningful negotiations towards peace.  The Irish Presidency will work to maintain the EU's deep engagement with the United Nations, consistently promoting human rights, women's rights, gender equality and the rights of LGBTIQ+ persons worldwide. We will promote active diplomatic engagement to support lasting peace and security in the Middle East, reaffirming the EU's commitment to a two-state solution. We will continue to work with key partners to address the worsening humanitarian situation in Gaza. We will also not lose sight of the sharply deteriorating situation in the West Bank, where massive settlement expansion and rampant and escalating settler violence continues in an atmosphere of impunity. Alongside the situation in Lebanon, these developments demand a serious response.  Reflecting our commitment to upholding international law and in response to egregious Israeli breaches of human rights and democratic principles, the Government has taken the decision to advance the Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill. The Government\u2019s preference remains that collective action would be taken at EU level. This would have greater impact and is the strongest and most effective route. We continue to actively pursue this. The Commission will bring forward proposals as regards trade with settlements before our first, and my first, Foreign Affairs Council on 13 July. We take on the Presidency today. I will again press for action on an EU-level ban on trade with the settlements. We will also support EU efforts toward stability in Lebanon, Syria and the wider Middle East. We welcome ongoing negotiations between Iran and the United States to end the conflict in the Gulf. We must ensure that this brings real and sustainable peace to the region. We must reopen the Strait of Hormuz to international shipping, which will bring much-needed relief to the global economy and to our societies.  The situation in Lebanon remains extremely concerning. It is important that the EU continues to support the Lebanese Government in its efforts to bring peace and stability to the country. We do not approach the challenge of peacebuilding from a purely theoretical standpoint. The experience of peace on the island of Ireland illustrates the profound importance of dialogue, partnership and sustained international support. The success of the peace process in Northern Ireland, achieved through the commitment of communities and institutions, and heavily backed by the European Union, reflects the unique history of our island. Ongoing EU support, notably through the PEACEPLUS programme, continues to underpin our efforts to strengthen reconciliation, deepen understanding and foster a shared, peaceful future together.  The international security environment has changed radically in the past decade. The need for measures to enhance European security and to build our resilience has never been more evident. We know that no country acting alone can address the entirety of existing and emerging security challenges. The Irish Presidency will contribute actively to the ongoing development of our security and defence. As I mentioned, Russia's ongoing war of aggression against Ukraine, the devastating conflicts across the Middle East and the Gulf, and the rapid evolution of hybrid threats and new forms of warfare, including cyber and hybrid threats, present profound challenges to our Continent and have revealed vulnerabilities that all EU member states, including Ireland, must confront. These crises have made one thing unquestionably clear: Europe must invest heavily in all dimensions of its own security and rapidly develop its defence capabilities. As we take up the Presidency, Ireland will work tirelessly to advance concrete measures that strengthen our security, resilience and defence. As I have said before in this House, it is imperative that the EU and its member states continue to provide Ukraine with the support that it needs but that we actively work towards our own security strategy to ensure that the Union can respond dynamically to today's challenges.  The Presidency will advance the measures set out in the White Paper on the future of European defence, the associated defence readiness roadmap 2030, and vital new initiatives on joint defence procurement. True security requires us to address critical capability gaps. We will support deep collaboration to build European resilience, particularly in the face of sophisticated hybrid threats which affect all member states, including Ireland. We will continue to highlight the central role of the EU\u2019s Common Security and Defence Policy, CSDP. The CSDP framework provides an invaluable contribution to our collective safety and the Irish Presidency will actively promote its development and evolution.  To secure our borders and networks, we will advance work on the proposed regulation on military mobility, tackle pressing maritime security challenges, safeguard the security of critical infrastructure and strengthen the Union's collective cybersecurity defences. During our Presidency, Ireland will support the mid-term review of the EU maritime security strategy while focusing on the work we are doing at home, identifying and increasing maritime domain awareness, combating the shadow fleet, and increasing member states\u2019 co-operation on maritime domain awareness, particularly through mechanisms like the common information sharing environment, CISE.  Russia's shadow fleet continues to pose a threat to European maritime security so Ireland will encourage and promote co-ordinated EU monitoring and surveillance measures targeting shadow fleet activities in European waters. Greater information-sharing between member states, the implementation of EU sanctions and the reinforcing of the legal framework underpinning our maritime domain are ways to address this threat.  I say all this being clear that our constitutional situation and our prerogative and position as a neutral country are not in conflict with everything I outlined. We need to and can work more closely with member states, invest in our economic security and security more broadly, protect critical infrastructure and respond to emerging threats. This is something we must do as a country to make sure we protect, not just our citizens, but also our critical infrastructure while working closely with member states across the EU.  I look forward to hosting a dedicated maritime security conference in Dublin in October 2026 where we will bring together owners and operators of critical maritime infrastructure, maritime security policy and legal experts and EU defence policy representatives. Ireland has delivered effectively on our responsibilities in our Presidency of the Council on seven previous occasions, from our first Presidency in 1975 to our most recent term in 2013. I am confident that we will do so again on this occasion. I look forward to working closely with colleagues across this House, with our European partners and with all stakeholders to ensure that Ireland\u2019s Presidency is a success, and most important, one that delivers for people in Ireland, people in Europe and for our shared future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment (Deputy Alan Dillon)  As Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment and at the Department of Climate, Energy and Environment, I am pleased to join the Minister, Deputy McEntee, in welcoming the opportunity to address the D\u00e1il on the first day of Ireland's eighth Presidency of the Council of the European Union. This is a significant responsibility for Ireland and a moment of real opportunity for us to shape the European agenda at a time of profound change and challenge. Our Presidency priorities have been developed through broad consultation with people and organisations across the country and with our European partners. I strongly believe that these priorities reflect what Europe needs to do to deliver effectively for people across the 27 EU member states.  From today until 31 December, Ministers and officials from across the Government are fully committed to serving in our roles as honest brokers to ensure positive outcomes for all of the Union\u2019s 450 million people. We will chair the Council across its formations, anchoring every negotiation in our core priorities of competitiveness, values and security. By setting clear agendas, building consensus and brokering compromises, we will achieve a critical legislative programme in the interest of all 27 member states. The scale of the task we face is huge, but we are ready.  In Brussels and Luxembourg, our Ministers will chair dozens of formal Council meetings. On the ground, our exceptional diplomats and officials will steer the vital day-to-day work of more than 170 Council preparatory bodies. Irish Ministers and Ministers of State, including me, will also lead on our engagement with the European Parliament across numerous complex policy areas, while leading and co-ordinating the work of the EU in major international negotiations, including significant United Nations conferences. By working with our partners across Europe to deliver an effective Presidency, we will ensure that Ireland\u2019s position, influence and reputation in the EU is maintained and enhanced.  We want to ensure the EU can respond effectively to the needs of citizens, communities and businesses across the 27 member states. One area that will be of particular importance during our Presidency will be circularity and the circular economy, which ties directly into the themes of competitiveness and resilience. At our upcoming informal meeting of environment Ministers, we will discuss the role of circularity as a critical component of resilience against external shocks and global supply chain impacts. Recent developments, including the conflicts in the Middle East and the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, have highlighted the far-reaching consequences of supply chain disruptions, extending well beyond energy security.  Turning to small businesses, which is an area I feel particularly strongly about, Ireland comes into this Presidency with a clear commitment to co-operation, ambition and delivery. We want to work constructively with our European partners to strengthen our economies, support workers and ensure Europe remains competitive in the long term. The Department will host the SME and Clusters Assembly in Dublin in November. This flagship Presidency event will build on our core theme of competitiveness, bringing together more than 600 entrepreneurs, business representatives, experts and policymakers from across Europe. The assembly will focus on practical measures to strengthen the SME sector, including improving access to finance, promoting entrepreneurship, accelerating digitalisation and supporting businesses to expand into new export markets. Through our work in leading negotiations and building consensus across the competitiveness agenda, we will help to deliver practical outcomes that enhance the competitiveness, resilience and long-term growth of Ireland\u2019s and Europe\u2019s small businesses.  I will turn to space policy, which might seem a bit removed from day-to-day concerns, but is not. It is becoming increasingly important for Europe\u2019s economic security and technological leadership. During our Presidency, we will advance work to enhance Europe\u2019s economic resilience, ensuring the European Union is well positioned to compete and prosper in an increasingly complex and rapidly changing global environment. This ambition also extends to the space sector, which is becoming ever more important to Europe\u2019s economic security, technological leadership and strategic resilience.  The Irish Presidency will prioritise measures to strengthen the competitiveness of Europe\u2019s space sector by unlocking the potential of the Single Market for space, fostering innovation, supporting the growth of SMEs and enabling European space enterprises to scale and succeed. We will also work to ensure that the EU\u2019s ambitious space agenda is underpinned by a sustainable long-term framework through progress on the EU space services agency regulation. At the same time, we will seek to advance the EU Space Act to help to maintain safe, secure and sustainable space operations as activity in space continues to grow. Through these efforts, Ireland will help to reinforce Europe\u2019s open strategic autonomy, strengthen our collective security and resilience, and support the European Union\u2019s position as a global leader in this strategically important sector.  When we talk about competitiveness, it is important to say it is not just about business; it is about people too. A competitive Europe must also be a fair Europe and we will strike the right balance between supporting businesses to grow and innovate and protecting workers and maintaining strong social standards. As highlighted by the Draghi and Letta reports, Europe faces significant competitiveness challenges, including an innovation gap, slower productivity growth and the need to deepen the Single Market. Our Presidency will support the European Commission\u2019s competitiveness compass by promoting an environment where SMEs can grow and scale, emerging technologies can flourish and investment can drive sustainable economic growth.  A key priority during our Presidency will be advancing the European employment agenda, including work on the forthcoming quality jobs Act and the fair labour mobility package. These initiatives will help to shape the future of work across Europe by supporting quality employment, fair working conditions, skills development, social dialogue and labour mobility. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  I will start with the logistical side of things. I acknowledge that this is a project which many hundreds if not thousands of people in the Department of foreign affairs and other Departments will work very hard on. I am always very aware of the professionalism of the Department of foreign affairs. I commend it on its work today and on the work it does on an ongoing basis. I have every faith that it will deliver, from an organisational point of view, a very successful Presidency.  The other part of the logistical side of things to register again the concerns we have raised in the past about security. The anti-drone technology that was supposed to be procured and put in place last autumn is only just about coming into play now, just in time the Presidency. Our reliance on other member states, which has been reported, reflects the fact that for many years successive Governments failed to invest in defence. The priority for the Irish Government should be to be strong on neutrality and on defence. The two things need to go together. Ultimately, a failure to invest leads to a reliance on others that has been demonstrated in the context of this Presidency.  On the political side, this should be a Presidency that leaves a mark. If we get to a stage at the end of the Presidency where the Commission is happy that all its priorities were shepherded through by the Irish Government to the Commission's satisfaction, I am sure that will lead to praise for the Government and its Ministers. Ultimately, however, that is not what the Irish people need. They need a Presidency that is assertive, that shows leadership, that is proudly Irish and that is willing to highlight and advocate on behalf of our interests. Of course, there is a balance to be struck. We must acknowledge that we hold the Presidency now but that this is a role that only comes around every so often. In that context, we need to take this opportunity and show assertive leadership.  In our submission on the Presidency, we highlighted six key priorities, namely Irish unity, the promotion of peace, the cost-of-living crisis, workers' rights, overseas development aid and fair play for farmers and fishers. On the first of these, it is extraordinary that we are going to go into a Presidency at a time when the Irish Government seems to have no ambition whatsoever to talk about Irish unity. It is incumbent on those who support Irish unity to take opportunities such as this to advocate for it. I am not saying that this is going to be the number one priority for Slovakia, France or Greece, but the EU, as an institution, will have a role to play when and if reunification is achieved. That is very clear, and previous Irish Governments have made engagements to ensue that the North can, in the event of Irish unity, access the EU. However, in their contributions, the Minister and the Minister of State said more about space than about Irish unity. Investment in space is important, and I appreciate that it has knock-on impacts for research, science and so on, but this is the Irish Government and it should be using opportunities like this to advocate for Irish unity.  The next priority is the promotion of peace. The shameful record of the EU on the Middle East in recent years has been frequently outlined in this Chamber. We cannot allow a situation where all the focus is on the humanitarian side, which is important, and not push for a sustainable political solution for the Middle East, including in Lebanon. I wish to flag the issue of Sudan. Too often, Sudan has been allowed to slip off the agenda. However, the conflict there is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, conflicts in the world.  The cost-of-living crisis is next. The cost of energy and reform of the energy markets are crucial.  Workers\u2019 rights are another priority we highlighted. I and many trade unionists across Europe are concerned that this Ireland Inc. proposal will lead to forum-shopping and to companies registering in countries with the weakest labour laws. We can all work towards simplification if workers\u2019 rights and the environment are not made victims, but I am concerned that they will be sacrificed for this.  On overseas development aid, unfortunately, many countries are walking away from their track record. There will be people, especially in Africa, who will suffer because of cuts to medical and public health programmes. We need to keep that matter on the agenda.  Last of all, fair play for farmers and fishers in the context of the Common Agricultural Policy.  The Presidency should, to the greatest extent possible, ensure there is Six Counties representation and engagement with them. That does not seem to be prominent enough in the programme as things stand. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  Mar a d\u00fairt an tAire, Ireland's Presidency of the Council of the European Union comes at a defining moment for Ireland and Europe. Communities across the Continent are facing soaring living costs, deepening inequality, housing crises, climate change and growing international instability.  The Presidency presents Ireland with an opportunity not just to just chair meetings or hold photo opportunities but also to provide leadership rooted in equality, solidarity and justice. Our Presidency must place ordinary workers, families and communities rather than corporate interests at the centre of Europe\u2019s agenda. Ireland must champion a pro-social Europe that delivers for working people. Across the European Union, families are struggling to afford basics like housing, childcare, healthcare and energy. Economic growth means little if it fails to improve people\u2019s lives. Climate action remains one of the defining challenges of our generation, but the transition to a greener economy must be a just one. Workers, families and rural communities cannot be expected to shoulder the cost while large polluters continue to profit. The European Union must invest in renewable energy, public transport and sustainable agriculture while ensuring jobs with fair pay and conditions are created across every region.  Ireland must also use its Presidency to defend peace, international law and human rights. Ireland has a proud tradition of military neutrality and supporting peaceful conflict resolution. At a time when international law is being violated with impunity, Europe must apply the same standards consistently. Ireland must be at the heart of drafting Europe\u2019s new strategy for security and defence. We need to ensure that the core principles of European foreign policy include accountability for breaches of international law and meaningful international efforts to secure just and lasting peace in many conflicts just beyond our borders.  Our Presidency should also challenge the growing concentration of wealth and corporate power. Multinational corporations must pay their fair share of tax. Workers\u2019 rights must never be sacrificed in the pursuit of competitiveness. Public services should never be weakened by privatisation or austerity. The European economy must work for citizens not financial markets. Ireland should also advocate democratic reform within the European Union. Decisions affecting people\u2019s lives must be transparent, accountably made and subject to meaningful democratic scrutiny. Smaller member states must have their voices respected and citizens must have confidence that Europe acts in their best interests.  Ireland\u2019s Presidency should reaffirm the values of solidarity that lie at the heart of the European project. That means standing with workers, supporting struggling communities and defending human rights. Ireland has an opportunity to demonstrate that leadership is measured not by military strength or economic power but by our willingness to stand up for fairness, equality and justice. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  Ireland's EU Presidency is a significant opportunity for the country that must not be missed, but it has to be for the whole island. I was really glad to see our First Minister, Michelle O\u2019Neill, at today's event, because we cannot talk about any of the issues we are going to talk about during the Presidency without taking an all-island approach. We have a chance to demonstrate leadership, advance Ireland\u2019s interests, address the democratic deficit within the EU and to help shape Europe\u2019s future at a very pivotal moment. While we must make the most of this opportunity, we must recognise that it comes with huge responsibility. The Presidency carries a substantial cost to the taxpayer, and the Government must ensure that every euro spent delivers lasting value for Ireland and for Europe.  One of the Presidency\u2019s central priorities must be to restore Europe\u2019s competitiveness. European businesses and innovators continue to face unnecessary red tape, duplication and bureaucracy. In that context, simplification must not mean deregulation. The Minister said that earlier, but it must be meant. We do not want deregulation. We are paying a price for deregulation in the form of the almost \u20ac9 billion that it will cost to resolve the problems caused by defective concrete blocks. Those problems arose as a result of light-touch regulation.  We need a Europe that supports enterprise, encourages innovation and allows businesses to compete globally, but we must protect workers' rights, consumer rights, environmental rights and human rights. This Presidency has also shone a spotlight on Ireland's own preparedness in an increasingly uncertain world. While Ireland remains militarily neutral, neutrality cannot mean vulnerability and, for decades, the Minister will know that the Defence Forces have been neglected. Despite years of warnings and ample time to prepare, we still lack basic capability to protect our own skies and seas against modern threats and we are, unfortunately, relying on others to fill the gaps. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in  Many Irish people have mixed emotions on the European project. It is a love-hate relationship of sorts. I spoke in the European Parliament recently as part of the Erasmus programme. I certainly love the element of mutual co-operation and cultural exchange with countries with which we have had links since the time of the monks shining a light into the dark Continent. However, many people dislike the increasing militarisation of a federal superstate that appears to prioritise the interests of corporations over communities. Ireland should be a voice for peace.  Only today, we saw how hard-pressed consumers were hit with a charge of \u20ac3 per non-EU product, which should have been passed on to billionaire corporations that produce the products and flood the market with them. There are also double standards whereby we strongly sanction Russian aggression in Ukraine but adopt a kid glove approach to the maniacal State of Israel, while we watch the world's first live-streamed genocide yet do very little about it. That represents rank EU hypocrisy. The sovereignty of national parliaments can be superseded by a federal superstate, such as with the EU migration pact, if a government rolls over and kowtows to Ursula von der Leyen and hands control over to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. There has undoubtedly been much progressive legislation coming from Europe, such as the area of workers' rights and other dimensions. However, there is no reason that any national parliament should not be capable of enacting the same legislation.  I attended and enjoyed today's ceremony in Dublin Castle. It was very well run. I compliment those involved. There was a big emphasis on EU enlargement, which will allow 36 million and, eventually, 136 million from non-EU countries to have free movement into Ireland and elsewhere. Have we considered the practical implications of all this in terms of Ireland's infrastructure and people's access to housing, healthcare and education? We need to. Unfortunately, I do not hear much emphasis on EU enlargement into counties Fermanagh, Armagh, Tyrone, Derry, Antrim and Down and the use of our Presidency as a unique opportunity to garner support for Irish reunification, just as we did with German reunification. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  The European Presidency gives Ireland the opportunity to put the interests of the Irish people firmly on the EU's agenda. First, Irish unity should be front and centre of that agenda. The Presidency is an opportune time to advance structured discussions on preparing for a united Ireland within the EU. Second, the cost-of-living crisis demands an EU-wide response centred on energy and food affordability and security.  Finally, this Presidency should be in support of peace and international law. It is within that context that I would like to raise the ongoing political situation in Cuba, which demands a strong humanitarian response both from Ireland and the EU. As the Chamber will be aware, Cuba has been suffering the result of 65 years of a US blockade and, of late, a complete sanction on the delivery of oil to Cuba. Schools and universities are closed as they cannot function without electricity. Food produced in the countryside is rotting in the ground because farmers do not have fuel to deliver it to the towns and cities. The urban people are suffering food deprivation. Hospitals cannot function due to lack of electricity either. The entire island is asphyxiated. There is no public transport. Sanitation is compromised, disease is everywhere and fresh water is hardly available. Their economy is completely compromised as most hotels are closed, causing even more unemployment and poverty. My heart breaks for the Cuban people when I see the reality of what is happening to them. I realise it is probably unique to raise it in the context of this, but I do think we have a unique voice here. The role that Ireland plays on an international level is an incredibly strong one and now we have this Presidency. We should use it to amplify our views and, indeed, amplify a moral voice within an increasingly difficult international context. We need to do everything that we can so there can be a free flow of fuel, medicines and essential supplies to the Cuban people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I welcome the opportunity to speak today. Well done to the team involved on a very successful launch in Dublin Castle today. I genuinely wish the Government all the best in the EU Presidency. I know it is a big undertaking. However, I also urge it to listen to what is being said today from the Opposition benches. I believe there are a lot of insights that could be well used by Government during these coming six months.  Being a proud European means being an active voice, and we in the Social Democrats are proud Europeans. However, that pride is not based on blind loyalty. It is based on a commitment to the values that are supposed to form the bedrock of the European Union - peace, social justice, solidarity and human rights. We are an influential voice within a group of 27 nations and we need to stand by those values when others seek to turn their backs on them. As Ant\u00f3nio Costa said earlier today, Ireland is not just at the heart of Europe, but a decisive actor. When we refuse to call out the abandoning of those values and when we view constructive and valid criticism of EU actions as taboo, we feed anti-EU sentiment and the erosion of our democracies, here and abroad.  N\u00ed mhotha\u00edonn formh\u00f3r na ndaoine nasctha leis an m\u00e9id a tharla\u00edonn sa Bhruis\u00e9il.  People in this country do not see Ireland meaningfully defending environmental regulation at EU level. They do not see Ireland fighting for better digital protections at EU level. They do not see their Government defending their rights. Instead, the State approach to this EU Presidency seems to be about prioritising deregulation and collapsing social cohesion spending, while building war machines across our Continent with taxpayer money. We cannot and should not sacrifice Europe\u2019s social values in the name of competitiveness and simplification. These buzzwords will not deliver the positive change our citizens need. The multi-annual financial framework has expanded both cohesion and competitiveness funding to include military spending and defence industry support, respectively. This will have the effect of benefiting our most developed member states, which are home to the arms factories where this funding will be funnelled. This is all while small businesses operating outside the military space will find it harder and harder to access supports.  We in the Social Democrats argue that our best defence against interference and propaganda from foreign powers is a strong and socially cohesive Union of democracies. Courage means leading the way. It means not allowing inaction in the face of genocide and aggression. So many people in Ireland feel let down by the refusal of the EU to act on Israel's genocide in Gaza. They are angry that in the face of blatant violations of the human rights clauses of the EU-Israel Association Agreement, we have seen no action. I welcome that we took decisive action against Russia for its illegal war of aggression in Ukraine. We need those values to be upheld consistently, no matter the perpetrator. We need companies and people who support and fund wars of aggression and genocide sanctioned and held accountable. The words of our treaties, the promises made to our citizens and international law mean nothing if we do not see those things enforced.  In the words of Volodymyr Zelenskyy, speaking earlier today in Dublin Castle, \"it's so important to keep promises\". These are not optional extras. They are not a gift or an act of charity. These are our legal and moral obligation to act, and Europe has utterly failed in that legal and moral obligation towards the people of Palestine, instead continuing to be complicit in occupation and genocide. The refusal from this Government to ban services in the occupied territories Bill was blamed on Europe. Now is the chance to lead. If the Minister means what she said about pushing for action at EU level, we need to see that urgently and completely. We need a Europe that is based on decency and shared humanity and Ireland now has a responsibility to champion that. Instead of dealing with refugees as human beings, the European Union plans to pour billions of euro into our own version of ICE. The Commission has proposed to spend nearly \u20ac12 billion on Frontex in the next multi-annual financial framework. We know Fortress Europe policies push people into the arms of traffickers, push people into boats in the Mediterranean and push people to their deaths by drowning, while Europe then tries to imprison people doing search and rescue in EU waters, like our own Se\u00e1n Binder. This is coming at a time when MEPs are being refused access to see conditions in migrant centres run by EU member states in third countries, like in Albania, where six people have attempted suicide since mid-May. These practices, where lives are being destroyed and people are being treated as disposable, and attitudes we are allowing to take hold and grow exponentially across Europe have a real impact.  The migration pact, championed by Fine Gael's party colleagues in the European People's Party, EPP, was also welcomed by the far right of the same chamber with chants of \"Send them back\", a chilling moment for our European Parliament. When we refuse to stand up unashamedly for decency and for the humanity of every single person on our shores, this is the Europe we create. We in the Social Democrats believe we can create a better Europe, but only if those in power stand up for a better Europe, a decent Europe. Ireland must lead that fight during this EU Presidency. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I congratulate the Minister, her Department and, indeed, all of the artists and designers involved in the new passport design. It is a beautiful document. It clearly shows the importance of nature to the Irish people. Fifteen thousand people were engaged in the process of designing this document. The reality is we as a state have not been kind to many of the species that were illustrated in that new design. Our Atlantic salmon populations have decreased by 90% in the past five decades. One third of our bee populations are facing extinction. Whales, dolphins and our sea birds are still waiting for this Government to bring forward marine protected area legislation. We kill thousands of badgers every year, we hunt our foxes with dogs and we course our hares for sport. It is clear that the illustrations are beautiful but we need to do a lot more for those particular species. I hope that when the Minister, all the other Ministers and all the officials are flying back and forth to Europe over the next six months and are flicking through their passports, they will be reminded of their responsibility to protect nature and the importance of nature to the Irish people, they use this next six months to fight for nature, environmental protection and funding for the nature restoration laws, and they do not allow the continued watering down of environmental protections that we have seen over the past number of months. We need to keep the environment on the agenda. Unfortunately, it has clearly fallen right off it. Even the speeches tonight were a demonstration of that. What we do not want is that the next generation of children will only experience the species that are in that document through the pages of that document. They need to be able to experience them in the wild and that will happen only through an Act of protection that the Minister can afford them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  I will raise two issues. The first is the issue of policing. It is deeply disappointing that there has been a reduction in Garda resources across the country as a result of the EU Presidency. In my own constituency, Ballymun and Finglas Garda stations will see a reduction in the coming months as a result of garda\u00ed being allocated elsewhere in relation to the Presidency. There is a feud ongoing in Ballymun and shots fired yesterday. We cannot have a situation whereby the EU Presidency results in a reduction in safety in communities, particularly our most disadvantaged communities. I would like the Government to give a commitment to ensuring that that will not be the case.  Second, on the issue of housing, it really is incredible. Housing, as the President of the European Council, Mr. Ant\u00f3nio Costa, said at the ceremony today, is one of the biggest issues facing Europe today, but yet when you look at the Government's plans for the Presidency, there was not a mention of housing in the 13 pages of the two speeches. It is incredible.  Across Europe today, there is a generation who cannot afford to pay the rent. They cannot afford to buy a home. They do not see a future where they can start families. They are facing record rents and record house prices because governments have failed to build social housing and have turned housing into an investment asset for landlords. We see the latter in AirBnB. The fundamental failure is that, across Europe, housing as not been treated as a human right.  You would think that we in this country, which has the worst housing crisis in Europe, would use the opportunity of the Presidency to put solving the housing crisis in Europe at the heart of what we are doing, yet there was not a mention of it. What a wasted opportunity. We talk about threats to Europe and to the European project, yet young people feel completely excluded and alienated from Europe when they cannot get the basic need of having a home met. That is not a social Europe. It is not the Europe that was envisioned by the founders of the European Union. It is not the European Union that we want to see where people can have a decent life - a life with dignity. That starts with having a home. I would ask the Government to reconsider, put housing central to what it is to do in the next six months, and use this as an opportunity to bring European governments together and bring a resolution to the housing crisis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Clendennen  I will start by acknowledging the Minister and her officials for the event that took place in Dublin Castle today. It showcased the best of every facet of Irishness, our identity and how we had evolved since we joined the EU all those years ago. It was a day when I was proud to be Irish and proud to be European. It shows our strong affinity with Europe and how we have evolved over the past 50 years.  I am very much proud to be a member of Fine Gael and of the EPP, one of the leading parties in Europe, but one of the things that we should try to look at as part of this Presidency is ensuring that future generations recognise what it means to be part of Europe. One of the key parts of that is engaging at community level with our schools and communities. I met the Belgian ambassador, H.E. Mr. Nicolas Nihon, today. My county is paired or twinned with Belgium and we have ambitious plans to bring the European message to every corner of the county. There is a lot of work being done in relation to the likes of the Blue Star programme in primary schools but I think that this is an opportunity for local authorities to engage and maybe look at a European community day, where, led by local authorities, we could encourage every community to embrace this and get involved. Otherwise, I am concerned that a lot of this will be in Dublin. It will be in Dublin Castle and around the M50. Will it get out into rural communities? Will it be regionally balanced right across the country? We should be looking at initiatives to try to determine how that can be done better.  I do not believe that there is any facet of Irish society or the economy that has not benefited from Europe, from students, workers and farmers to families and entrepreneurs. When we look at all of the different initiatives since the turn of the century, we have got a common currency in the euro, a common travel area, interrailing for students, European health insurance cards and Erasmus. Those sorts of change have given Irish students and every element of the Irish people a real sense of opportunity beyond our shores. We are a country of 5 million but when we see what it opens us up to in terms of hundreds of millions of people, it has given us a new outlook, not only on Europe, but on the world. When we see our investment overseas and the employment that we create right across the globe today, it shows how confident we have grown as a country and how we have invested and delivered, not only here at home, but overseas.  It is a proud day for me as well when I see the logo of the EU Presidency and its connection to Offaly in that the whirlpool nebula, which was identified in the 1840s through the great telescope at Birr Castle. There is another reason to try to bring this EU Presidency on the road and explore such venues as Birr Castle.  I look at some of the funding that comes through the EU and wonder where would we be as a country without it, including most recently the European Structural and Investment Funds, Erasmus and the just transition. We have been critical in one sense of just transition in my own county but at the same time it has provided a foundation or platform to go forward and ensure that we can see the transition from an overdependence on fossil fuels to looking at renewables through a whole different spectrum. That is something that needs to be reflected, not only in my county, but nationally.  The LEADER programme is a scheme that came about as a result of Europe and I would hope that there will be a commitment, through this Presidency, to ensuring that it is protected and maintained. It makes a significant difference to rural communities. I look at some of the challenges that we face in terms of small businesses and their investment. LEADER has been a significant player in giving businesses in small rural areas an opportunity to diversify, expand and bring new economic activity to areas.  When I look at the slogan of the EU Presidency, \"N\u00ed neart go cur le ch\u00e9ile\", I think back to a former leader of our own party, Garret FitzGerald, who regularly referred to how membership would protect our national sovereignty through the sharing of sovereignty with other EU states. Now that we are a leading net contributor to Europe, it is something we need to be conscious of to ensure we do not take it for granted that opportunities for funding are no longer there. That is where EU funding officers, potentially through local authorities or regional assemblies, should be explored by Government and looked on as a potential way of ensuring we keep communities alive in order that we see that continual economic and social progression.  In respect of the three pillars we are looking at in our own objectives - competitiveness, values and security - these are fundamental and something we live by daily. We have seen the cost of doing business in Ireland and the challenges around it, but we have to stay innovative and connected to that Single Market, and we have to advocate for entrepreneurship. If we can do that, we will be competitive and we will continue to see businesses flourish. From a values perspective, we can all be confident in the democratic system upheld in Europe today. We see how transparent the recent elections in Hungary have been, but also here at home. Going into a count centre and observing how our elections unfold through the counting of ballots, this is not something we should ever take for granted. It is a significant part of where we are at as a society and country.  Sometimes in this Chamber, defence is something we take for granted on several different levels. Like it or not, there is a threat to the European border of our Union and we need to stand by our fellow member states and the likes of Ukraine to ensure we are united together. A strong message was sent from a European perspective today, with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in attendance as well as Ant\u00f3nio Costa. However, we cannot take it for granted and we need to invest in it and support the Union as a whole. I heard some of the debate earlier about a decision between drones and homes. We have to protect our country and ensure we have the necessary and adequate defence while also investing in our future infrastructure. We need to ensure that as we continue to work with member states as a Union, we also have our own independence. From a defence perspective, we need to ensure we continue to see that investment and not necessarily have to rely on our neighbours.  The same applies to energy. We have had some difficult debates over the past couple of weeks in this House with regard to gas reserves and the strategic need for security, with others proposing we just rely on our neighbours. What happens if there is a challenge with our neighbours? We need to have that independence and security, and we need to ensure we pass on over time to the people and to businesses that affordability in the cost of energy, while also reducing our emissions in fossil fuels.  Overall, this is a very proud day, and it was a real honour to have been present. I wish the Minister and Government well, and I look forward to seeing how the next six months unfold. I am sure it will be through a very positive lens. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  Ireland's EU Presidency is not an exercise in mere administration; it is a significant political opportunity, and this Government must not squander it. A Presidency that prioritises optics over action would be an abdication of our responsibility to the Irish people and to the future of our Continent.  As we mark a decade since the North voted to remain in the EU, our Presidency must be anti-partitionist in word. The Brexit process was imposed on the people of the North against their democratic will. The Good Friday Agreement provides for Irish unity, and the EU Council confirmed that a united Ireland would automatically rejoin. The Irish Government must weave the preparation for reunification into the heart of its Presidency, and we must begin the groundwork for a smooth and democratic transition. The North should be represented, and Government must ensure the active participation of the Assembly and Executive in events and advocate for observer status for Northern representatives.  This Presidency must be a force for peace. The EU has lost immense credibility in its response to the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Ireland must use its leadership role to build alliances and move the EU. We must push for immediate recognition of the State of Palestine, an EU-wide arms embargo on Israel and the full suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement. The EU must be a beacon for peace, not a bystander or active participant in atrocity. Crucially, this must be a social Presidency. While Brussels talks of deregulation and competition, Irish families are crippled by the highest energy prices in Europe. The Government must demand action to restructure the energy market and draw a line in the sand against any proposals that roll back workers' rights or environmental standards.  Ireland is a neutral country. The EU was not imagined as a military alliance. Our Presidency must draw a clear distinction between EU and NATO business, and there must be no meetings of any military alliance on Irish soil. This must be an active, ambitious and proudly Irish Presidency, one that champions unity, defence and neutrality and fights for a social Europe. To do anything else would betray the trust of the Irish people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  As we assume the EU Presidency, it is important we set out the context we now face globally. To one side of Europe, we have an aggressive Russia which, to this day, continues to take the lives of Ukrainians in its illegal war, while to the other side, we have the United States which, for the first time since the Second World War, has an outwardly aggressive tone towards its dealings with Europe. We have a bloc of countries that, despite the huge market we command, are falling behind competitively when it comes to the US and China. Ultimately, as we assume this Presidency, Europe is scrambling - scrambling to increase defence spending, scrambling to tackle a housing crisis that is felt more acutely in Ireland, and scrambling to reduce our reliance on the United States as it moves toward an isolationist economic and foreign policy. Post Brexit and post tariffs, there is no doubt Europe is bruised.  We have an opportunity over the next six months to turn the tide. This Government, which has been known to keep the handbrake on when coming to any decision, can choose to take it off. The Irish Presidency will have three key priorities: competitiveness, values and security. The worry is that when it comes to those priorities at home, this Government has kept the handbrake on and, because of this, it has failed. Why should people believe our Presidency of the EU will be any different, and if it will be different, why has that same effort not been shown at home?  With security, we know defence and security are the focus of Brussels, and in many respects, they should be, but how can we be leading that conversation? This Government is more interested in debating the triple lock than providing real investment in the State\u2019s own defence. We sit bottom of the EU table in terms of defence spending, and no matter how impressive the men and women in our armed forces are, we are not equipping them with the tools to do their job as effectively as possible. It is why we continue to rely on the RAF and, now, the French military.  President Zelenskyy, who I am glad was able to return to Ireland today, was put at risk in December by this State\u2019s underinvestment in our own defence capabilities. We have also still not got real answers to the drone incursion. Neither the Members of this House nor the defence committee know the exact details of what happened that day, and that is hugely concerning. As we discuss air defences in committee over the next week, I request again that the Minister would brief the committee properly on those drone incursions. If we are going to be steering conversations on defence, Ireland needs to get more serious on its own. This is not a call to waste money or to start buying up tanks. It is, however, a call to pay members of the Defence Forces better so that we can improve recruitment and retention. It is a call to invest in drone technologies, as suggested by President Zelenskyy earlier, to move away from our reliance on the RAF, to invest in our navy to move away from our reliance on the French navy, and to invest in Army barracks across the country and more.  I welcome the Government's willingness to double down on European support for Ukraine, including its accession to the EU and the ongoing accession of Moldova and other countries. The more nations that want to join the EU, the more it shows that while Europe might be bruised, it is not beaten.  We sit at a window of opportunity now that this State has to deliver not just in security, which is a key component, but also, as the Government has outlined, on our values. What are those values, and will we apply them universally? The EU is rightfully vocal when it comes to Russia and its illegal invasion of Ukraine, but that conviction disappears, certainly in many member states, when it comes to criticising Israel and the genocide it has committed in Gaza. Will Europe pressure the US to stop the blockade and the subsequent starving of the Cuban people? I am a proud European, but we need to acknowledge the hypocrisy the EU can display, and the need for a new direction. A Cuban life should not be worth any less than a Ukrainian or Palestinian life. All life is the same.  Our values are on display on the international stage while we hold this Presidency, but our values at home and how we bring them to the Presidency are equally important. The website that has been set up for the Presidency states, \"We will work to support a socio-economic model that emphasises societal resilience, inclusion and cohesion, and will take forward initiatives on employment, supporting quality jobs within modern labour markets.\" Societal resilience comes from equity in opportunity, so I ask that as part of the values portion of our Presidency, Ireland focuses on housing. There is no equity in opportunity between the older and the younger people living in Ireland. Thirty-year-olds are stuck living in a box room at home, or paying \u20ac2,500 for a studio apartment in Dublin. We have a generation who according to the ESRI will be worse off than their parents and because of that, as sure as night turns to day, we will continue to see a breakdown in societal resilience, not just in this country but across Europe.  We need a radical reset, and that means State intervention in the housing market and State building, but more than that, and this Presidency gives us the opportunity to say this, we should be looking at the EU taking a much bigger role in housing across Europe. Supply is the only way that we will drive prices down. We need big institutions to be playing bigger roles. Ireland has the opportunity now to get the ball rolling in that direction.  This needs to be a Presidency that is prepared to be bold and dynamic and to rip up the rules that the EU has in place where the US and China have pulled away from us economically. The Government is saying a lot of the right things on the competitiveness front - simplifying rules, a more integrated Single Market, accelerating the energy transition - and if all these happen, I will be the first to put my hands up and say well done, but nothing this Government has shown in running this country gives me confidence that it can drive these objectives at a European level. The Government does not have a history of simplifying rules. Just look at the new rural housing policy or the new rental rules - the list goes on. We are the furthest away from achieving an energy transition. We are missing targets, embracing LNG and ignoring opposition on it to boot, and we have an energy grid that is falling apart from years of underinvestment. On both those fronts, the jury is more than out on whether this Government can deliver. The next six months will be vital with regard to the direction Europe takes. I urge the Government to push Europe beyond what it is, and towards what it can be.  With my remaining time, I would like to address another challenge the Presidency faces, which is the multi-annual financial framework, MFF, and the realities of the tightness of the European budget. Let us be realistic about the resources at our disposal. The MFF is arguably the most demanding task that the Government will face over the next six months. The Minister of State knows that. We are facing a paradox: the demand for shared European investment in security, economic competitiveness, the CAP, cohesion funding and myriad other competing areas. This demand has never been higher, yet the overall budget remains intensely constrained. As impartial chair of these negotiations, Ireland must balance our desire for traditional cohesion funding and agricultural support with new, critical industrial investments. The reality is that we are looking at increased and competing demands while not increasing our spending. Frankly, no group is going to be happy with the outcome. There are a number of potential areas, long mooted, that we can examine at an EU level, including levies on online gambling, on digital services and big tech, and financial transactions or capital gains from crypto assets. An expanded Union cannot survive on solidarity, pretty speeches and well wishes.  During our Presidency, we must push the conversation forward by integrating the practical, financial realities of expanding the Union into our MFF discussions, and we must seriously look at how we simplify decision-making across the bloc. Ireland knows first-hand how the EU can transform a nation from a peripheral, economically depressed state into a thriving, globalised hub. We understand the immense mutual benefits of this project, but with that privilege comes a profound responsibility to lead. I hope that we will. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  On a 13th century site in Graiguenamanagh, County Kilkenny, stands one of the last remaining textile mills, run by a family since 1778, the Cushendale Woollen Mills. It was successful in the procurement process to provide a corporate gift of a scarf for those who will participate in the EU Presidency. I mention this because it is of significance to how a family-owned Irish company can benefit from a procurement process that will now bring its product to the attention of countries within the European Union. It is proud of the fact that it goes from fleece to fabric. It is a wonderful family and I am delighted to have the opportunity to mention it in this House. I wish it well in the markets it will engage with through trade within the European Union and beyond.  Like other speakers, I acknowledge the very positive role that was played within the European Union, the positive benefits to Ireland from that participation, and how we have successfully managed to develop as a country within that European Union, but when that Union started out, it was about more than trade. It was about the importance of the European citizen within that Union. An effort was to be made to ensure that the citizens of Europe would be better off as part of that membership. That, in my mind, has faded away to an extent. For example, why is it that within the European Union, you can get a very cheap mortgage, but you cannot get it here? It is a simple question but it is fundamental to the rights of Irish citizens to be able to get what citizens in other parts of Europe can get, which is a cheap mortgage. Why is it that the insurance industry within Europe is not open to the citizens of Ireland for them to benefit from cheaper premiums? Why is it that Sparkassen banks in Germany cannot be part of the banking system here? These are questions that need to be asked by the Government during the time of this Presidency.  I listened to the Minister, who referred to simplifying rules, which is a good statement, but it is not what is happening in the European Union. The bureaucracy of the European Union has run away with itself and it has become more important than European states, and it has put the citizen in a second-class place. That has to be corrected and that is what I hope will happen during the Irish EU Presidency. The Minister referred to eliminating barriers. There are barriers to Irish farmers farming.  That barrier is bureaucracy and red tape. It is putting farms as we would know them, small farms that make up the bulk of the country's farming families, to the pin of their collar to make money and to make a profit. It is only that profit that is going to keep them there. They are saying that they will be given a grant, and then tying so much red tape around that grant that it is not worthwhile for them to get it, but still they want to farm. It is making it difficult for them to protect the environment, in which they acknowledge the role that they play in that protection, and making the grant system impossible for them again. That has to be simplified.  We talk about enterprise then. I am trying to highlight the imbalances that are there in Europe, some of the positions taken, the hypocrisy of them and, simply, the fact that maybe it is Ireland's fault that we do not stand up within our European Union and do what other countries do. For example, Taiwan has a population of 21 million people. It is a massive market. We have no place in that market, yet 16 individual European states have trade offices in Taiwan. Ireland does not have one. It did have one. It closed it down. It cost the State \u20ac50,000 a year, but we closed it down back in the downturn in the economy. It should be reopened. It is not interfering with our One China policy. It is doing what 17 entities from Europe and 16 member states are doing in Taiwan. They are trading and using that as an access point to China and Asia, yet we hide behind what is historically an outdated policy statement from China. We are not going to offend them. The other 16 countries that are out there do not offend them. Members of this House have travelled out there. Members of the Government have travelled out there when they were in opposition, but there are different standards now because they are in government. Yet, the European Union is leading the way in terms of the numbers that are out there. I want to see that changed.  I want to see a student exchange, which the UK benefited from when it was in the European Union, between Taiwan and Ireland. I want Irish students who want to go out and see how the semiconductors are made to do so. I want to allow them the opportunity to be able to educate themselves on that issue, on AI and on technology. Taiwan is the leading producer of semiconductors. In fact, it opened and invested in Germany. It built a factory out there. Why is it that Ireland could not be at the table fighting for that investment, the same as every other country? These are the issues that I see in terms of enterprise.  Social justice and the rights of people are a big thing. There was a group of whistleblowers in the Gallery a few weeks ago on World Whistleblower Day, some of whom went to try to have their rights vindicated within the European Union. The European Union fines us for not doing stuff, yet when it does not do stuff like protecting the rights of those whistleblowers, everything goes silent. Julie Grace, Noel McGree and Lorraine Morris and so on were out there. I want to see the European Union take on the role of defending those who had to go out there to vindicate their rights and perhaps to tell Ireland it should start doing its business at home rather than what it has turned a blind eye to, ending up in Europe to be sorted out. There is a mishmash here of all sorts of things happening in Europe that happen in Ireland where we do not fulfil the rights of individuals. Dan Brennan is another one I can think of. I want to see the citizens of this State being placed in the centre of any policy that is being developed or any action that is being developed whereby the citizen can benefit - not big corporations, vulture funds, banks or anyone like that.  By the way, in relation to the banks, we were short-changed in a big way by the European Central Bank during the crash. That was never really addressed. We had big issues in terms of Covid and we want to investigate that. That was not addressed. Surely one rule for one country within the European Union should be the same in every other member state.  The EU provides grant aid for all sorts of projects in Ireland. Essentially, what is happening with that funding is every city, town and village is starting to look the same. They have the same big cycle tracks, the same narrow roads, the same lights and the same everything. We should tell the European Union that everyone is not the same; we are different, and that should be celebrated. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  First, I stand in solidarity with the staff and students of UCC who have been locked out of their college and workplace because of the visit of Ursula von der Leyen. Why there was a need for this extreme when people just want to go to work and college, I do not know but it goes to the over-the-top way that Europe and this Government are treating the citizens. Once again, the elites are being prioritised over ordinary people. There will be a gridlock in Cork. There will not be a gridlock for the elites. For the ordinary man or woman trying to get to work, college, school or to collect their kids, there will be. I have serious concerns after hearing comments in the past few days about the State's ability to guarantee security while we have the Presidency. The Taoiseach, Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael have rolled out the red carpet to the Europeans. I am a proud Irishman and a proud European. I think you can be both. At the same time, however, we cannot have a situation where millions upon millions are being spent while children grow up in hostels and hotels. Millions and millions are being spent while children with disabilities cannot get access to school places, school transport or July provision. People with disabilities cannot get them. Our priorities have to be here.  We have a Passport Office in Cork. Everyone will be travelling now into Ireland but Irish citizens cannot get passports because of delays in the Passport Office. In Cork, there was supposed to be a new Passport Office in August. Now that is being delayed until next year. The joke of this is there will be no passport printer in a brand-new office that is being set up in Cork. How crazy is that? People are having to get emergency passports. People are facing delays. I dealt with a lady who could not fly out on Monday because her passport was delayed. She had to fly out on Tuesday and book new flights, with the cost of that. If we are going to spend millions, we need to spend it where it needs to be spent. The EU Presidency should be a source of pride. The Taoiseach has an unbelievable opportunity now to make a real difference. Number one, we have to call out how Europe threw us under the bus during the financial crash and how the Irish people paid more than anyone else because of bankers and speculators and how they destroyed our economy. Fianna F\u00e1il must take the blame for that. That lands clearly at its doors.  We need the occupied territories Bill to include services. There is an opportunity now for Europe to lead and say that there is a genocide in Gaza. We should stop supplying the Israeli army with weapons. We should stop letting bonds being sold for money. Settlers are driving people from their land in the West Bank and people are being killed. There is a genocide in Gaza. We have an opportunity now that the Taoiseach must grab. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  The jamboree of propaganda for the EU has started with the beginning of the Irish EU Presidency. The bit that concerns me is confirmed in the Minister\u2019s speech:  The [Irish] Presidency will advance the measures set out in the White Paper on the future of European defence, the associated defence readiness roadmap 2030, and vital new initiatives on joint defence procurement.  The paper she is referring to is the paper ReArm Europe. That is what this is about. That is what Zelenskyy\u2019s visit is about and what von der Leyen is about. It is about doubling arms expenditure in Europe from the current level of \u20ac400 billion to more than \u20ac800 billion \u2013 just a little under \u20ac1 trillion. To put that into perspective, how much has Russia, which is an aggressive imperialist power that has illegally and brutally attacked Ukraine, spent on military and weapons? \u20ac190 billion. Europe is already spending twice that but it wants to double that again. NATO in total spends 53% of all global arms expenditure, which is now above \u20ac3 trillion; in other words, \u20ac1.5 trillion \u2013 ten times what Russia spends. Spending lots on weapons does not stop war, does it? It does not stop the killing. What does it do? The European Union exports \u20ac800 million worth of armaments and weapons to the State of Israel while it is massacring and engaged in a genocide against the Palestinian people. It is profiting from genocide. It gives the state that is committing genocide favoured trade status. Yes, we are looking for a suspension, which we know we will never get. Ireland is a major trading partner. The European Union as a whole has \u20ac43 billion worth of trade with a state that is in the dock for genocide. Ireland is one of the biggest of those trading partners at \u20ac5 billion worth of trade and the Government guts the Bill to impose minimal sanctions with the Occupied Territories Bill. In the midst of the genocide, we discovered \u20ac20 million in one year goes in dual-use exports to the Israeli military. That is to the Israeli military while it is committing a massacre. At the same time, the Government is going to get rid of the triple lock, which removes some barriers to the Government deploying troops in a European military project which Ursula von der Leyen has spelled out when she was speaking about the Strait of Hormuz, which the Minister mentioned. She said we must open the Strait of Hormuz. Who closed them? Israel, who we are arming and the United States. Donald Trump closed them by attacking Lebanon and Iran yet this is what von der Leyen said in April:  A threat to a merchant vessel in the Strait of Hormuz is a threat to a factory, for example, in Belgium. So today I propose that we move beyond reactive crisis management.  She went on to say the EU must consider expanding the scope of missions. She said together we should \u201cbuild a region where peace is not merely the absence of war\u201d. To me, peace is the absence of war but that sounds like she thinks peace is war. Peace is European military action in the Strait of Hormuz \u2013 not defensive action but sending troops to the Strait of Hormuz to deal with the problems created by a war started by the United States and Israel, to which we are providing the weapons to conduct that war while they are slaughtering Palestinians.  I appeal to people; we have to protest against this madness. Money that von der Leyen wants to put into weapons should be going into housing, health, education and dealing with the cost-of-living crisis faced by working people. That should be our priority. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Competitiveness, security and values are the key themes of Ireland\u2019s Presidency. Each of these themes should be intertwined with our goals for a decarbonised, energy abundant, peaceful EU and peaceful world but, as we have seen from some Government pronouncements, these values are open to interpretation. I think we should be competing to have the most energy-efficient buildings, to have the fastest public transport; that real security means energy security through actioning renewables and that our values should be to protect those suffering from the depredations of war in Gaza. I hope the Government will agree with those points but some of the announcements that has come from the Government in recent days lead me to question that.  These values demand a commitment from our politicians at both a national and a European level not to allow populism to strip away our empathy or to keep us from making our societies more climate resilient. I worry that as part of a broader headlong rush into that deregulation agenda, the Government will favour profit ahead of people and ahead of planet in our Presidency\u2019s plans. While the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade was talking up competitiveness earlier this week, she failed to mention that the European Commission has opened infringement proceedings against Ireland for not meeting our climate deadlines. The Irish Government has missed its 31 December 2025 deadline to submit its draft building renovation plan to the European Commission, which is a core requirement under the energy performance of buildings directive. With the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council warning that a failure to take climate action could cost the State \u20ac13 billion, it is crucial that the Government prioritises climate in its EU Presidency plans. The Irish Government needs to get its house in order and it needs to get our housing stock in order at the same time. We need to ramp up renovations, particularly for those living in food poverty. Energy costs for householders have spiked and the crisis in the Middle East, coming on the tail of the Ukraine war, shows that sadly this will not be the last time an energy crisis of this nature takes place. Well-insulated homes save householders money, are more comfortable and help us meet our climate goals as well. Without a plan, too many households will face a choice of food or heat this winter. As new weather records are set across Europe, the Government has an opportunity to act on both climate and household costs but they must not be found wanting.  We need to use the time this evening and the time of our Presidency to speak out against the Israeli establishment\u2019s destruction of Gaza and continued oppression of the Palestinian people. The Government has outlined that it wants to take further measures in regard to sanctioning Israel to be taken at EU rather than national level for greater impact. The Taoiseach is on record as saying he intends to push for concrete EU action and urgent discussion on this but the time has come for the Government to step up and put meaning behind these words. We now have six months before us when Ireland will have the potential to have huge impact on this issue. We should be aligning with allies in Spain and Slovakia to put Palestine firmly on the European Union\u2019s agenda. This involves not only highlighting the issue of the EU-Israel Trade Association Agreement and humanitarian aid for Palestine but also calling on the European Union itself to finally recognise the State of Palestine and all the rights that come from that. The Green Party was proud to be part of the Government when Ireland first recognised the State of Palestine in 2024. Since then, and because of the leadership shown by Ireland, many other member states have followed suit: France, Luxembourg and Malta. We not only have an opportunity but also a responsibility to use the Presidency to promote the dignity and the rights of this oppressed nation over the next six months. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  I might start by recognising a very strong European who was a former Member of this House and who passed away on Monday. David Andrews was a TD for D\u00fan Laoghaire and was somebody who showed on a number of occasions as Minister for Foreign Affairs his commitment to the European project and his commitment to the ideals of Europe. He is a great loss. I wanted to pay tribute to him. I have not had an opportunity in the House to pay my respects to his family, to his wife Annette, his sons David and Barry, and his daughters, Mary, Sinead and Claire. D\u00e9anaim comhbhr\u00f3n leo as ucht an chaillteanais at\u00e1 acu an tseachtain seo. I wanted to mark that because I thought it was important in the context of this debate.  I thought this debate was about the EU Presidency which we took over today rather than an opportunity to criticise every aspect of the European Union. Listening to the debate, I think some people have seen it in those terms. I do not for a moment suggest Europe is perfect or that it does not have its flaws or areas where we have an opportunity to correct the problems with Europe but what we saw today with the opening at Dublin Castle was an extraordinary event that did reflect our uniqueness but also our uniqueness within the context of Europe.  I congratulate those involved in organising the ceremony. I want to mark the extraordinary contribution that Carrie Crowley made as MC of the event and the extraordinary musical talent of Cormac Begley and Iarla \u00d3 Lion\u00e1ird who really showed the depth of musical talent and culture in this country. There was also the recitation of Seamus Heaney's poetry by Ruth Negga. It was a lovely event. I was on radio this morning and one of questions asked was whether we will have the opportunity to make our own mark on this Presidency. We have started down that road. The opening ceremony today was a triumph for everyone involved. It is also a reflection of the level of organisation and preparation that have gone into the Presidency. As Chair of the Joint Committee on European Affairs, I know we have had a lot of dealings with officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade who are involved in preparing for the Presidency and the level of preparation is extraordinary. It has not happened in the past week or two. It has been in the making for over a year, and credit is due to those officials for what they have done and the Ministers who will coming into play chairing meetings. I know from speaking to colleagues that they are so prepared. They have a map of where they want to go during the Presidency and who the personalities are on their Council and how they will achieve what they have to achieve.  Although it is not an officially announced theme, one of the things we have to look at is expectation management in the context of the Presidency. There is an enormous weight of expectation on Ireland. It is not just because this is our eighth Presidency. We sometimes forget that we were part of the first enlargement of the European Union in 1973. We are one of the older members of the European Union so there is a breadth of experience and understanding of the European Union within the Civil Service and the body politic in this country that does not exist in most countries. Cyprus, before us, is a younger member and a much smaller country that faced enormous challenges with what happened with Iran and attacks on their own soil during their Presidency. That made it incredibly difficult for them to move the agenda they had set out for their Presidency. We can only hope that will not befall us during our Presidency. Lithuania also joined the European Union, like Cyprus, in 2004 so is a relatively new member. They will take over from us next year.  As I look at our Presidency, we exist in a gap in the foreseeable potential political turmoil. There is an opportunity for us to achieve great things through this Presidency but also an expectation that Ireland will deliver an excellent Presidency. I fully expect we will but so much of what we could achieve during that time is outside our control. It depends on the co-operation and ambition of the other 26 member states who will share those meetings with us during the Presidency. We do not know if something will happen to us like what happened to Cyprus. We do not know what complication or what attack there will be. When the French had their Presidency, they did not expect war to break out in Ukraine. When the Croatians had their Presidency, they did not expect Covid to hit. There will be unforeseen events that will interrupt our ability to get things done. We have the best chance here because in 2027 there will be all kinds of elections in Europe that may change the political landscape and make it much more difficult to get things done. When we look at what has to be done, there are some really important things within that Presidency. We have set our priorities as competitiveness, security and values but the MFF looms large as well. That seven-year budget is a constant battle between the frugals who want to cut and cut,and those who want to expand spending. Ireland, as an honest broker, running this Presidency has to be the middle ground that can bring those two sides together and that will not be an easy task. It will not be easy to broker a deal on the MFF. If we can do it, or substantially do it before the end of this year, it will put Europe in a much stronger position. I am grateful we have the opportunity to do that and we have a strong team in place at official and political level. However, in the context of the MFF and the changing political and diplomatic landscape of the globe, it is really that we do not cut back on the external action service in the European Union. We have to maintain the European footprint. We have to do so in a way that does not cut our aid budget. Only Ireland and Spain, as members state, have increased their overseas development aid budgets and that is a challenge. When I have said that to colleagues around Europe, they feel that because their countries have cut their ODA budgets, Europe cannot do it. I hope that will be borne out in the MFF negotiations.  More important than just diplomacy, we have also have consider our relationship with other countries, particularly in the global south and Africa. We have to move away from a situation where we just see them as recipients of aid but instead as partners for natural resources, trade and development. It is not just because the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, is here that I want to pay tribute to Irish Aid. The manner in which Ireland provides aid to the global south is beyond compare because it does not come with strings attached. We invest in particular countries and identify particular projects. The money and resources are diverted into them but not with strings attached. Even though USAID has been slashed and burned under the Trump presidency, in the past the Africa Acts meant that aid would be delivered but it had to be spent on American products. It came with strings attached. Irish aid and foreign policy do not do that. It is worth recognising that as well.  It is also important in what we have identified as our priorities is values. I listened to my colleague criticising Europe's reaction to what is happening in Gaza. I agree with a lot of what he said. I have been consistently disappointed by the European approach to this. Contrary to what he said, I have not been disappointed by the Government's reaction. In fact, Ireland has led the charge in recognising what is happening in Gaza. Never is credit given on the opposition benches to people like Leo Varadkar who was the first western leader to call out Israel for what they did, or the T\u00e1niste who was in the Department of Foreign Affairs when we recognised Palestine as a state, or the Government for building an alliance of states at European level that is beginning to approach this in a different way. Spain, Malta, Belgium, Slovenia and the Netherlands are changing their attitude to what is happening there. If we can build that coalition at European level, we might be able to make a change in the way Israel is treated by the international community. Ireland cannot do it alone and this is why being part of the European Union and having the Presidency is so important at this pivotal time. We can build those alliances at that level that might actually make a difference in a way that we, as a solo country, cannot do.  Enlargement is part of the values priority. We have such a close relationship with enlargement, not just from when the ten accessions states joined in 2004 but going back further. We were part of the first accession. It was largely during our Presidency in the first half of 1990 that German reunification was debated. Ireland's experience of being part of the European Union has been almost universally positive. For all of its flaws, we have benefited significantly and not just from Structural Funds, motorways, infrastructure and things like that. We were a postcolonial society and country that grew up for its first 50 years in the shadow of Britain economically. Even in terms of the courts, before we became a republic, decisions made in courts in London were binding on Irish courts. There was a monetary union, and we were dependent on the British exchange rate and its currency. In 1973, for the first time we sat around tables in Europe as equals with other European states. We should aim, to the greatest extent possible, to encourage any country that wants to share that experience of true independence and taking their place among the international community. Over the past number of months as Chair of the European affairs committee, I have met with representatives from Montenegro, North Macedonia, Albania, Moldova and Ukraine. These are all countries that have bent over backwards to become part of the European Union. Some of them still have work do. We have to use our Presidency to give them every opportunity to deliver, to recognise the work they have done and to allow them to become part of what is the most progressive union on planet and the biggest trading bloc, that genuinely stands up for human rights, the rule of law and the perseverance of the right of everybody to enjoy life equally. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Kenny  We are here because of the Presidency of the European Union. It is a great honour for Ireland to have the Presidency and to be in that position for the next six months. It also brings a lot of responsibility. From my perspective and the agriculture portfolio I hold, it is a critical time because we have the negotiations on the CAP budget. We see there are proposals to cut that budget considerably. That is something Ireland will have a key role in over the coming months. I hope we are able to bring about a situation where we recognise agriculture and European farmers are central to European security because food security is as important as any other aspect of security across the European Union. That is why the CAP budget needs to be restored and expanded and grown, if at all possible. That is exactly what we need to be doing. The Minister of State nodding in agreement, and we all need to work together to make that happen.  We need to recognise that farmers in every part of the European Union contribute hugely not just to the wealth of the Union in regard to the food that they produce but also to the public good that they do and from an environmental perspective as well. That also needs to be borne in mind. We have a climate crisis across the world. We have certainly found some element of it in Ireland in the last couple of weeks. We have had record temperatures and I understand there are more record temperatures to come. We have had record storms and all of these things are having consequences. What we do with our land, how we farm and how we how we develop our agricultural systems will have an impact on that, but farmers cannot change and adapt unless adequate provision is put in place. In other words, they need to be paid for the public good they provide. That needs to be central to the CAP negotiations.  I want to turn to one other aspect of it. Strength with unity is the motto of the Presidency. The previous speakers spoke about a previous Irish Presidency when German reunification was an issue. Irish reunification is something we all need to look to at the moment because a couple of miles from me in County Fermanagh people who voted to stay in it are now outside of the European Union because of Brexit. The region wanted to stay part of the European Union. We have an obligation to ensure that over this Presidency we work towards developing a critical mass of European nations to recognise that the reunification of Ireland is also something that would hugely benefit the European Union. We have a region which was part of the European Union before, which could immediately go back into the European Union if it became part of a unified \u00c9ire. That is something we need to work together to try to develop. We must work with people across this island, but also across all of Europe so that we can see what kind of funds and resources we can put in place to integrate two parts of this island which have been divided by an artificial border for far too long, so that they can come together and be part of a new united Ireland within the European Union. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Mar a d\u00e9arf\u00e1, t\u00fas maith leath na hoibre. Even if it is only the start rather than half the work done, today's launch of the Presidency of the EU Council in Dublin Castle was, if Members can pardon the pun, a real \"Ode to Joy\" - from the band of the Defence Forces and the National Youth Choir who heralded the hanging of the Irish, EU and then the Ukrainian flags, to all the other performers, it was indeed a hugely positive occasion from an artistic and cultural perspective. \"Samhradh Samhradh\" was performed by a collection of musicians, including Laoise Kelly on the harp, Cormac Begley and Christina Polycarpou on the lyra, which segued nicely from the Cypriot Presidency. As someone who likes to sing and has written songs, I was blown away by the depth and variety of all the talent on display - from The Gloaming to the sean-n\u00f3s, Iarla \u00d3 Lion\u00e1ird and the ensemble, Francesco Turrisi and S\u00e9amus Ong. Cormac Begley performing \"O'Neill's March\" with Stephanie Keane doing the sean-n\u00f3s style dancing was absolutely amazing. Ruth Negga did a great reading of Seamus Heaney's \"Beacons at Bealtaine\". Tol\u00fc Makay did a fantastic rendition of The Cranberries' \"Dreams\". I noticed that a lot of the diplomatic corps from other EU member states were swaying to it. They knew the song and it really got them going. All in all, it was a great start and as Deputy Barry Ward just said, Carrie Crowley did a fantastic and very dignified job as master of ceremonies.  Then we had the politicians. In fairness, the Taoiseach and the T\u00e1naiste were very strong in outlining our vision both in terms of Ireland's role within the EU and also the direction of the EU, as were all the Ministers. Everyone batted very well for the team. It was good to see the European Council President, Ant\u00f3nio Costa, make reference to Palestine, Lebanon, the Strait of Hormuz and the war in Ukraine. It was great - I also thought it was touching - that the Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, was able to visit these shores so soon after his official State visit when he addressed D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann. This again afforded him the opportunity to call on the EU to keep its promises. That is what I took out of his contribution. He pointed to Ukraine's future as part of the European Union and sounded further warnings about continued Russian aggression and how Putin is not going to stop unless strength and unity are shown. That is the theme of the Irish Presidency - n\u00ed neart go cur le ch\u00e9ile.  I will reference the themes which have been referenced already: competitiveness in terms of strengthening Europe's economy, boosting innovation and productivity in the Single Market and supporting prosperity and jobs across the EU; values in terms of upholding democracy, human rights and the rule of law and defending these values not just in the European context but also globally; maintaining the foundational principles of the EU going back before we joined the European Economic Community in 1973; and security in terms of protecting EU citizens, strengthening stability and addressing the geopolitical challenges such as the aforementioned war in Ukraine and other global conflicts, and in terms of building resilience and defence capacity, which President Costa mentioned as well.  On a related note, I mentioned at the EU affairs committee of which I am a member the need to really get involved with our young people and young people across Europe and to engage with them. It is great to see that this will form a good part of the local engagement and interaction process over the coming six months.  That is all well and good - t\u00fas maith, mar a d\u00fairt m\u00e9 - but Ireland is only going to be judged on tangible achievements. It can be a steady-as-she-goes Presidency where we just keep it ticking over until the next country takes over, or we can try to get some tangible achievements. Obviously any country has to be realistic, especially a small country like us on the periphery, in terms of what we can do in six months given the real need for continuity, but it would be nice to see little bit of progress.  On competitiveness, we have to focus on practical outcomes. That means focusing on cutting the barriers for SMEs, reducing energy costs and supporting innovation. It is about getting the balance right between regulation and enterprise. In terms of AI and social media companies, while the EU is quite strong in some ways, I notice a little bit of a dilution.  I also notice a dilution on the measures to tackle climate change. Maybe there will be a redoubling during this Presidency. I hope there will be because we still have the naysayers saying that this is just a repeat of the summer of 1976. Our continental cousins are being absolutely devastated by the record global temperatures. We need to have energy self-sufficiency, which will have to be renewable, but also interchangeable across the grid between the French nuclear, the Irish wind and wave, and the solar, especially coming from the Mediterranean states. We have to show real leadership on this, and not just kind of keep things ticking over.  On the values side, Ireland has to prioritise concrete action. We can talk about supporting the rule-of-law mechanisms, humanitarian leadership and maintaining a clear and principled stance in Ukraine, Gaza and other global conflicts like Sudan but what President Costa said today is only lip service when other EU member states refuse to stand up to the Israeli genocide because of their historic guilt or their geographic proximity. We are only talking the talk unless we use our leadership over the next while to put more pressure on Germany, Denmark and the likes of Cyprus to get tougher with Israel. We can still be friends, but we have to draw the line at some stage, just like we have in many ways drawn the line and risked the ire of the Trump Administration with our fairly modest occupied territories Bill. It would be great to see the occupied territories Bill passed during this term, and also for the Government to try to stretch it out to services. Let the legal eagles come in and show why it cannot be done, but let us push the boat rather than saying we are not even going to try it. We have to show true leadership in this context and maybe put a few noses out of joint among our partners because that is what you do when you are showing leadership - you tell it as it is. We are no longer trying to play the national card for the next six months; we are trying to play the European and the global card.  On security, we again have a constructive role to play in strengthening EU co-operation on all sorts of security - energy security, which relates to the conflict in Ukraine; and cybersecurity, because again there are many malicious elements out there trying to attack European member states, be it from Russia, troll farms or other as yet unmentioned terrorist organisations or countries. We can lead without compromising on our long-standing policy of military neutrality. I take it from the Government's statement that we will not, but I just want to say anyway that we must not hinder the closer defensive co-operation of those other states which want to get involved. We know all too well, especially those in eastern Europe, Poland and the Baltic states, the dangers of being unprepared.  On the wider delivery front, the Government has to focus on getting agreement across the line. Rather than just talking, let us see what agreements will be passed during these six months and what EU legislation will be further advanced and ready to sign off. It should not be a holding Presidency or just a thematic Presidency; it should be a tangible and transformative Presidency. I know this is a big ask in six months but we only get it every now and again and we have to use this time. I urge the Minister of State to be as firm, blunt and forceful as possible and, as I have said, put a few noses out of joint if needs be and we can repair the collateral damage afterwards. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I am delighted to get this opportunity to contribute to the debate. We know there are huge opportunities in relation to the European Presidency. We know we are in a very volatile world with an awful lot of circumstances changing by the minute and hour. It is fair to say that for all of the positives of the European Union, there are failings. There has been much talk about the failures of Europe, and we can go back to the financial crash and the fact we were not necessarily shown the solidarity we should have been shown. This is accepting the improvements during Covid and the huge solidarity shown to us during the Brexit disaster, the Brexit negotiations and all that was required in that regard.  We all accept there has been a huge hit to the body politic and people's trust in politics, and to people's very financial being across Europe and the western world. When Europe talks about issues of security, and I am not even getting into the arguments about rearming the EU, we all know the Irish people are absolutely committed to an independent foreign policy, non-alignment and military neutrality. That goes without saying. If we are going to talk about security, we also have to talk about the security of our people and the fact there has to be a rebuilding of trust and relationships. This is about addressing the financial crisis that people are in. I accept we have our own issues here, where health meets housing meets the cost of living and the cost of fuel. The EU can facilitate us and we can work alongside each other on delivering on the big idea of dealing with the issue of the changes we need to make on where we get our supplies of fuel and power. We keep talking about wind power but we know there are huge possibilities. We could be talking about strategic autonomy for Ireland and strategic autonomy for Europe across the board but this is where we need to go.  I agree with everything that has been said as regards overseas development aid and the fact USAID has cut to bits many necessary projects. People might care from a point of view of the issues they are worried about, whether this is the impact across the world of how people are being treated, the lack of fairness and equality, even in relation to trade, and also the impact it has on immigration to this country.  The Minister of State will expect that I will finish by saying that we need to see proper movement on the EU-Israel Association Agreement. We need to do work on what we can do. As difficult as it is to push the Europeans, we need to see movement. I welcome the T\u00e1naiste's foray into the issue of Irish unity, following the route map of the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond. I also welcome what I have heard from the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan. We have to have a conversation with our European neighbours on the importance and necessity of doing our own preparations but then their facilitating us in delivering Irish unity, which could really change things positively, North and South and across Europe. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Neale Richmond","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Neale-Richmond.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Neale Richmond)  I thank all of the Deputies who have contributed to this very timely and pertinent debate as we embark on the eighth Irish Presidency of the Council of the European Union since our accession in 1973, following the first Presidency in 1975. My dear friend Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa has laid out his concerns about the supposed failure of the European Union, to be expected from a party that has opposed every European referendum and Europe in its entirety until Brexit showed up. I appreciate the comments he has made. It is really important in this context to look at how Ireland has changed since we first joined the EEC in 1973. The average income of an Irish worker was two thirds that of the EU average then and it is now more than double the European average. At that time my mother was the victim of the marriage bar. She married in 1971 and was sacked from Ulster Bank, and I can give out about it now that it is no longer in the jurisdiction. In 1973, she had my considerably older brother and was sacked from a supposedly more progressive bank. It did not change until 1976.  In 1972, the year we voted to join the EEC and Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa's political movement, of course, opposed that referendum, 55% of exports from Ireland went to Britain. Today it is in and around 10%. We were wholly reliant on our former colonial administrator to be the customer for our products and, in many cases, the receptive home for so many of our people. Our biggest export on paper may have been butter, beef or whiskey but really it was people. The era of mass emigration was in full flow and continued for many years, perhaps only starting to stem off when the EEC became the European Union.  We were an economically lacking, socially regressive country whose water and air quality standards do not bear thinking about. Deputy Kenny very eloquently provided the muster as to why we need a strong Common Agricultural Policy as part of the MFF. The reason we have the CAP is for the very basis of food security, an issue that has returned to European shores in light of Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine, the breadbasket of Europe. Food security must, of course, come back to being a central argument in budgetary negotiations.  Deputies Gogarty and O'Donoghue very eloquently talked about the need to make sure that we do not just pay lip service to security and that security is one of our values. The fact it is one of the three value points in our Presidency is not just a matter of words. I take very seriously Deputy O'Donoghue's criticism and I take it on the chin but, of course, what he failed to include is that the retention crisis in the Defence Forces is starting to reverse. In the past two years, we have seen more people joining and that is a good thing. The average numbers are turning around. The investment in naval vessels and radar technology is real and it goes to the heart of what the European project really is in its iteration and creation. It is a peace project and it is the most successful peace project. We have had the largest continuous period of peace between what are now EU member states in the history of mankind, and certainly in the history of the nation state.  The Minister, Deputy McEntee, in her lengthy intervention, supplemented by the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, in addition to the various speeches today, set out that our policy agenda for the latter half of this year is ambitious. To support this policy agenda we will host an extensive programme of Presidency meetings, with more than 270 events including a European Political Community summit, where the Heads of Government of at least 47 countries will come to Ireland. We also look forward to the informal meeting of the European Council here in Dublin in November. Alongside this, we will host 22 informal ministerial meetings. This is why the Government has been determined from day one that the Presidency belongs to the entire country and not only the capital, a concern laid out by Deputy Clendennen. By hosting six of our 22 informal meetings and approximately one quarter of all of Presidency events outside of Dublin, stretching into every part of the State, we are ensuring the Presidency leaves a truly national footprint. I had the honour of working on our previous Presidency with the European Movement in 2013 and it very much had a Dublin focus. There were only 11 informal meetings compared to the 22 we will host this time, and none of those took place outside of Dublin. Of course, there were no other summits.  I will go back to the point concluded on by my friend Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa, and alluded to by Deputies O'Rourke and Kenny, on making sure the North is part of this. I was cheered to see the likes of the First Minister, Michelle O'Neill, and the leader of the SDLP, Clare Hanna, at the event today. Crucially, one thing left out by Deputies O'Rourke and Kenny was that the reason the European Council agreed unanimously that a united Ireland would be automatically part of the European Union was due to the advocacy of the former Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, at one of the first European Council meetings after Brexit.  Deputy Gould raised the issue of costs. This is an important issue of misinformation that needs to be tackled. An article is going around the national press, amplified by a number of elected representatives at local and Oireachtas levels, claiming that this Presidency is going to cost us \u20ac400 million and that it is, somehow, multiples of the cost of other Presidencies. I do not know how this figure has been arrived at. The exact cost, excluding security, will be \u20ac168 million. The cost of the Presidency in France was \u20ac145 million, in Sweden it was \u20ac121 million and in Spain it was \u20ac170 million.  Deputy Gould is also outraged that there will be limited access to UCC tomorrow as we host the entire College of Commissioners. The Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach and I know that we are not in term time now. While there are staff members in UCC, one day and a couple of hours of limited access is not somehow an attack on people by the elites. We need to have a bit of relativity and reasonableness in these debates.  A successful Presidency is about two things. First, it is about making real progress on important legislative and policy proposals that will help to shape Europe\u2019s future. I do not intend to repeat the areas led out by the Minister, Deputy McEntee, or the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, but I will touch on two points raised respectively by Deputy Ward and Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa. Crucially, there is also the importance of the multi-annual financial framework, MFF, which was also touched on by Deputy O\u2019Donoghue.  I appreciate Deputy Ward\u2019s desire to highlight expectation management, but in the very same period, in the grips of the financial crash, this same responsibility landed on the last Irish Presidency in 2013. I have no doubt that we will be able to move budgetary proposals into a position where we will be able to hand them over in a very good condition to be agreed under the Lithuanian Presidency.  I really want to underline, as the Minister of State with special responsibility for international development, as Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa laid out, that the abolition of USAID puts the focus on Europe. The European Union and its member states now account for over 50% of global development co-operation. Throw in Norway and Britain and we account for over two thirds of the world\u2019s development co-operation. When it comes to budgetary discussions, Europe cannot fail the Global South. Irish Aid has stood tall. We are one of two member states, the other being Spain, to have increased our development budget. I look forward to seeing all-party agreement on that again in this budget. It is why we want to make sure that it is at the heart and the soul of the process when we have the first development informal meeting in 18 months in Dublin on 8 and 9 October. I thought of bringing it to Leopardstown Racecourse and maybe having a night at Johnny Fox's, but common sense prevailed.  The second aspect in this context is really important. It is about communicating effectively with people so they understand what these decisions mean in practice and how they affect their communities, jobs, opportunities and daily lives. This is why it is important that everybody across Ireland has the opportunity to engage with the Presidency. Our Presidency provides a valuable opportunity for reflection on what it means for Ireland to be a member of the European Union in 2026 and what our enduring place within the Union means. This is why we have had serious levels of extensive consultation and outreach across the State. I was delighted to hold a development consultation on 8 December. The views we heard all contributed towards an ambitious policy programme that we can and will absolutely deliver on. It is also reflective of the shared priorities and aspirations.  Deputy Clendennen also highlighted the need to make sure this is used as a template for re-engagement. This is why we see a children\u2019s version of our Presidency policy programme. The Blue Star programme that he referred to was born out of the 2013 Presidency. I had the honour of working on the pilot project in that year. We also see the county pairings with member states. Dublin is tied with Greece, and I am delighted that the Greek ambassador could join me for Europe Day in St. Brigid\u2019s Boys National School.  Deputy Gogarty, also known by his stage name, His Sweet Surprise, in reference to his singing abilities, rightly championed the breathtaking cultural performances we heard in Dublin Castle today. Throughout this Presidency, we will see a real focus on our cultural offering as a nation and a people. This is also the first time where Gaeilge will be an official working language of the European Union under an Irish Presidency. This gives us a great opportunity.  In conclusion, we have an immense challenge in front of us, which is coming at a stage when the world is in flux. We have a great opportunity and a great responsibility, and we are absolutely blessed to have a diplomatic and official team of over 500 individuals in Brussels and hundreds of people around our network who will drive an ambitious policy agenda and, crucially, a smooth Presidency that will be inclusive and welcoming and will get the job done. I look forward to all Members of the Oireachtas contributing to that and not just using these annual debates or the Europe Day debates to air whatever local grievances they have. Go raibh maith agat. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ireland's EU Presidency: Statements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Legal Aid","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_18.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  As predicted by many, we now have a chaotic situation in the courts, and in the District Court, in particular, due to the Minister\u2019s new criminal legal aid scheme. It would be helpful if the Minister would outline to the House the assessments he carried out beforehand in respect of the risk of the changes to the criminal legal aid scheme, any potential for reduced participation by solicitors in this work and the implications of any such reductions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I thank the Deputy for his question. I also thank him for organising the meeting of his committee yesterday and for inviting me to it. I thought it was a very useful and effective meeting. It gave me an opportunity to put out the reasons I am introducing this new scheme in respect of the District Court. Obviously, it also gave other persons whom the committee invited, members of the legal profession, an opportunity to appear before it as well.  In terms of what has happened since yesterday, the first thing I should emphasise is that the 8% increase in criminal legal aid fees, which has long been due and should have been restored a long time ago, has commenced as of today. As the Deputy knows, I said that would happen and it has happened as of today. It applies across the board, including in the Circuit Criminal Court and in the Central Criminal Court. In respect of the \u20ac520 flat fee I have put in place for the District Court, as I explained yesterday, that has also had the 8% added to it, on top of the five appearances. I think the Deputy also wrote a letter inquiring about the report. I want him to know that the report has been published on the gov.ie website today in the section with criminal legal aid.  The Deputy\u2019s concern is, I think, whether this is going to lead to an exodus of criminal law practitioners from the legal aid panel. I do not believe it will. Approximately 825 solicitors are on the criminal legal aid panel. This number has gone up significantly since 2023, when there were only 672 solicitors. This means there is a significant number of solicitors there.  Obviously, it is very early days and I do not want to say anything that is going to aggravate the situation. As of today, however, no solicitor has resigned from the panel. Three emails came into the Department from solicitors stating that they would be resigning. As the Deputy knows, however, in order to resign from the panel, solicitors have to contact the section of the Courts Service that deals with this area. I will be keeping a very close eye on this issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  My question was not about whether the Minister thinks this will have an impact but, rather, whether he carried out an assessment prior to introducing this scheme. I have to take it from the Minister's answer that he has not carried out any such assessment. I welcome the Minister's statement that he does not want to aggravate the situation. It would have been helpful if he had given himself that advice a number of days ago. Many solicitors I have spoken to feel the Minister made an allegation of widespread abuse of the current system against an entire profession. There is deep, deep anger and hurt that has been palpable. The Minister said I know about the system. I do not pretend to know the intricacies of this system. However, I can tell the Minister that people I know and trust, whom I have contacted in respect of dealing with vulnerable cases in the past, have told me they now feel their work is being undervalued, underappreciated and underrecognised by the Minister. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  As I mentioned yesterday, I am not here to prioritise the interests of the legal profession and neither is the Deputy. My task is to focus on the administration of justice, people who are brought before the courts, people who are accused of criminal offences and the effective operation of the administration of justice in the criminal section of the District Court. That is my focus. If we look at the fees available, if we want to just leave this as a discussion exclusively about fees, last year, in 2025, the cost of the criminal legal aid scheme was \u20ac120 million. Of that, \u20ac40 million was attributed to the District Court. Obviously, the significant majority of that money, two-thirds, was attributable to the Central Criminal Court and to the Circuit Criminal Court.  I do not believe there is going to be an evacuation of people from the criminal legal aid scheme. It is still a very profitable scheme for solicitors. It is very well paid. Many people have put down parliamentary questions asking about the amount of money that is paid out. Of the 825 people, those at the top receive in the region of \u20ac950,000 per annum. At the bottom, the figure is small, namely a couple of hundred euro. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I have engaged with a large number of those from the legal profession regarding these changes to the legal aid scheme, and I really do believe it would be helpful if the Minister took the opportunity to apologise for the manner in which the remarks have been interpreted. It is being generous to him to say he castigated an entire profession and suggested there is widespread abuse of the current system. The representatives of the legal profession have challenged him to provide evidence of that. I certainly have not seen that evidence yet.  Does the Minister accept, for example, that custody cases, children\u2019s cases, psychiatric cases and probation-linked sentencing cases cannot reasonably be run within five hearings? This relates to the evidence and testimony our committee received and that I have heard directly. If the Minister accepts my point \u2013 I am told that anybody who understands the District Court and how it operates would \u2013 does he also accept that there is genuine potential that solicitors will withdraw from the scheme in the same way as they withdrew from the civil legal aid scheme because it simply was not viable for their businesses to continue? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  The basis upon which I referred to unethical practices is in the report that is now up on the website, gov.ie . In fairness to the Deputy, I do not believe he has seen it. It is in the criminal legal aid section of the website. I refer to the review of the criminal legal aid system in the District Court.  The Deputy mentioned a whole series of cases, including custody cases. I have changed what was originally proposed as a result of my interaction with the Law Society. Any case that now moves forward to a higher court, whether it is the Circuit Criminal Court or the Central Criminal Court, will attract the full fee in the District Court as well. Once a serious case, whether it is a murder case or an assault case, goes to the Circuit Criminal Court, it is going to be subject to the fees that apply in the Circuit Criminal Court and Central Criminal Court, which are very generous and to which, today, I have added 8%.  It is a fair scheme. As I said to the Deputy yesterday, my primary focus in doing this is to try to reduce the number of adjournments in the District Court so that we can have more efficient administration of justice in that court. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Legal Aid"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Substance Misuse","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_19.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I want to ask the Minister about the recommendations of the Joint Committee on Drugs Use, particularly as they refer to the decriminalisation of drug use. I had not intended to ask this question so quickly following the release of the report, but it is important to seek clarification on some statements the Minister made in the media. I am looking forward to addressing them because I see that they are also in the response that has been sent to me right now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy for his question and, indeed, for his work chairing the drugs committee and the work on its report. I have had an opportunity to read the report. A very significant amount of work went into it. There are 161 recommendations in it. I agree with very many of them. There are parts in the report that are excellent, especially the section that refers to sports, well-being, combating addiction and trying to divert children through the use of sport. As we all know, sport is the most effective diversion project there is in trying to protect children.  I want the Deputy to know I agree with a huge amount of what is in the report. However, in fairness to him and to the media, the one issue everyone wants to address and ask me questions about concerns what he has described as the central recommendation, which is to decriminalise all drugs, full stop. I will give the Deputy my straight answer or my personal view, if he wants. Alternatively, I could say the Department will consider the matter. I have concerns about decriminalisation. The reason relates to what is set out in the report and it is also based on my own views. One of the findings in the committee\u2019s report is that if there is decriminalisation of all drugs, it is likely there is going to be increased public use of drugs in public areas.  I want to consider situations that might arise in my area or the Deputy\u2019s. If, for example, somebody was taking heroin outside a school or smoking joints in a park or another public area, there would be nothing the Garda could do. At present, if that is happening, a person can be moved on. Garda\u00ed can, because there is criminal activity, apprehend a person and seize the drugs because the activity is contrary to what is set out in the criminal law. If there were decriminalisation, I fear that what happened in Oregon and British Columbia would happen here. We would see an increase in public disorder and the public use of drugs. I just want to be conscious of the impact it would have on society more broadly, particularly children. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire for his response. I was coming in here for a fight, but he has disarmed me somewhat with his response. What he has in his written reply is different from what he has said in that he said we went beyond the recommendations of the citizens\u2019 assembly. I wanted to read the recommendation of the citizens\u2019 assembly as presented on 24 October:  The Citizens' Assembly has recommended that the State pivots from the status quo to a comprehensive health-led response to drugs, including decriminalisation for people found in possession of drugs for personal use. The details of how decriminalisation can be legislated for is a question that the Oireachtas should determine following detailed legal scrutiny.  That is what the citizens' assembly states on its website.  We also considered the matter and were quite fearful. I represent the inner city. We examined the Oregon model in detail. What we found there was that Oregon failed on a number of fronts, but for one, it did not have the assets that we have. We use the word \u201ctherefore\u201d in our recommendation when we acknowledge the potential for substance misuse or increases on the street. We state we should empower local authorities to have by-laws similar to those on the use of alcohol on the streets. We recognised that after our scrutiny and we would empower the Garda to go further than what Oregon or any other jurisdiction, including Lisbon, was able to include. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  This is an interesting discussion. I am very happy to have a policy discussion with the Deputy. We obviously have different views. My concern is what happened in British Columbia. The Minister of Health there is a social democrat, a member of the New Democratic Party. British Columbia introduced decriminalisation about three years ago and is reversing out of it now because, it says, it has led to much public disorder and much public taking of drugs.  I have great empathy for people who have addiction problems. Addiction is a huge challenge for anyone in life, but the Deputy and I also have to consider what the impact is going to be on other people, people who are not taking drugs, if you can openly take all drugs. It is not just cannabis the Deputy is talking about. We are talking about heroin and crack cocaine. If people can take those drugs openly without the Garda being able to say they cannot do that, it will have a very negative influence on people, especially children. If they see this happening, it is going to be normalised. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Does the Minister honestly believe I would stand over a policy decision that would enable an increase in open drug dealing? Does he actually believe that a committee that had representation from members of all parties, including his own and including incredible members such as Deputy Brabazon, whose views differ from mine on this, and Senator Mary Fitzpatrick, would do that? We examined the matter and what we established quite clearly was that the Oregon model failed because wraparound services were not present there. It was the same with the British Columbia model. What we also established was that we have one of the highest numbers of drug-related deaths in the EU. We have several provisions in the Statute Book \u2013 sections 15, 22 and 23 \u2013 that enable the Garda to go after those who are dealing the drugs. The section of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 that criminalises possession for personal use actually prevents people from coming forward to seek treatment.  To ensure there would be no public consumption of drugs, we recommend clearly that council by-laws be passed to enable garda\u00ed to move people on in that scenario. Also, we recommend that if they do not move on, public order measures would enable the Garda to arrest them. I assure the Minister that neither I nor anybody else on the committee would enable or support a situation where public consumption of drugs would even potentially increase. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I am not in the slightest challenging the Deputy's bona fides or genuine beliefs. I just have a concern that a policy advanced by people who are legitimately motivated by the best intentions may have a negative consequence.  There is one thing we agree on, namely, that there is and should be a health-led approach. Under the Government at present, there is a health-led approach to drugs. The health referral scheme, which will be in operation shortly, will provide an opportunity for someone who has, by statute, committed an offence to engage with health services and, as a consequence, avoid a criminal sanction. In this way, we are taking clear health-led steps to tackle the misuse of drugs.  I am concerned about the matter. I want to be frank with the Deputy and I do not want him to think I am sitting on the fence. I disagree with him. I fully respect the opinion he has come to. Just because I disagree with him does not mean that I am right and he is wrong.  I may be wrong but my view, and it is a strong view, is that the decriminalisation of drugs is going to increase the public use of drugs and, as a consequence, also increase the use of drugs generally. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Substance Misuse"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"International Agreements","counts":{"speechCount":12,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_20.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I will return to the issue of a bilateral returns policy with Britain. The Minister and other Ministers have put on the record of the House on numerous occasions their belief that between 80% and 90% of international protection applicants are travelling here via the common travel area. It would be useful if the House could get a report on any progress that has been made on securing a bilateral arrangement with Britain. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy. Since the previous occasion that the Deputy and I engaged across the House on these questions, the International Protection Act has commenced. It commenced on 12 June. These are very early stages. We are not even three weeks into it but the statistics I am seeing show that the number of asylum applicants coming to Ireland is down considerably. I do not want it to be understood that will inevitably continue, but that is the case in the very early days of the scheme. I believe the reason it is happening is because of the increased powers in the International Protection Act, including the ability to search the baggage and luggage of individuals who come here to find documentation. We have found a lot of documentation, such as UK driving licences and passports. It is a much more vigorous system. Notwithstanding the fact that the Deputy opposed it, it is improving the situation for us at present.  On the situation with the UK, it was the case that 90% of applicants or more were coming in directly at the port and coming over the Border. That has reduced according to the figures over the past two and a half weeks but, again, it is very early stages. It is in the region of 78% of much smaller numbers. It is going in the right direction. I spoke to the Home Secretary on 15 June after that appalling attack in Belfast and the appalling racist riots afterwards. I emphasised three things. There needs to be greater data sharing between the UK and Ireland. The UK wants that. It wants to get data that we have access to in the EU. We said that we need to have more policing operations on the Border. That will happen. As the Deputy knows, and I keep asking Sinn F\u00e9in to emphasise this, the common travel area is only for the benefit of the citizens of Ireland and the UK. We also discussed the issue of returns. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  The question was what progress has been made on a returns policy and only in his last four words did the Minister mention \"the issue of returns\". "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I will come back to it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I would appreciate if the Minister would outline what progress has been made. He outlined that individuals have had British passports and driving licences in their possession when they have applied for international protection. The Minister has no power to do anything about that because there is no bilateral returns policy in place. I love the Minister's confidence that international protection applicants have been following the passage of his legislation through the Oireachtas and awaiting the President's signature. The truth is that he knows there will be periods of time when the system comes under pressure. That is how the international protection system has operated to date and will likely operate again. The Minister has said in the House on numerous occasions that the vast majority have come across the Irish Sea using the common travel area. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  That is true. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  How is the Minister going to deal with that if he does not have an agreement in place on a returns policy? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  There were examples where UK driving licences were found. The passports were not UK passports. The great benefit of the legislation, which, of course, transposed the pact, is that it does make returns much easier - not to the UK because we do not have an agreement with the UK but to other countries in the EU. That is the big advantage of it. Under the Dublin III regulation, as the Deputy is aware, we would have to get the permission of, say, Germany to send somebody back if they had applied in Germany. Now we do not need its permission. It is already agreed that we will send people back to Germany and the airport in all the countries is designated.  On the UK agreement, I have designated the UK a safe third country. I want to see operationalisation of an agreement between the UK and Ireland for returns. However, I cannot force the UK to recommence an agreement or to start accepting people back if it does not agree to do so. I have limited powers in what I can do. I can say I want to do it but I cannot force the Home Secretary or the British Government to enter into an agreement with us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  The Minister knows that I and Sinn F\u00e9in support the returns regulation. The big contradiction in everything that the Minister has said is that the returns regulation is important in the context of the EU, but we will manage if we do not have it for the source of 80% or 90% of arrivals. I do not know if the Minister is willing to give a percentage now because a lot of it is pure conjecture and speculation on his part.  The Minister says he cannot reach an agreement if the British Government is not willing to agree. Is that the state of play? I have asked for an update. Is the update that the British Government is refusing to enter into negotiations----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  No. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  -----or is holding back? If the Minister wants it and says that the British Government is not refusing, where is the delay in securing a bilateral arrangement? Does he accept that designating Britain a safe third country is pointless if we do not have a returns agreement in place? What proviso or mechanism in law will the Minister use to implement returns if there is no bilateral agreement? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I do not believe it is pointless designating the UK a safe third country. That is what it is. The Deputy is aware of the politics of the United Kingdom probably just as well as anyone else in this House. There are considerable issues of sensitivity in the UK around accepting returns from other countries. The Deputy knows that. It is an issue of political sensitivity. I have spoken to the Home Secretary. I invited her to the informal meeting of the ports alliance on 16 July. We spoke shortly after the riots in Belfast. The reason that was of particular interest to her was because the suspect in that case was somebody who had landed at Dublin Airport, coming from Luxembourg, claimed asylum in Dublin and then left Dublin the very same day for Belfast. The next day in Belfast, he claimed asylum there. I said to the Home Secretary that this is an example of why we need a returns agreement in place. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"International Agreements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Road Safety","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_21.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  The question relates to the issue of static speed cameras on the national road network and whether divergences between the number of fixed charge notices for speed detections at individual locations are compared and reviewed by officials and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. The Minister will perhaps be aware of the massive disparity in the number of fines issued at various different cameras. One has issued 30,599 notices while another has issued 397 in an 11-month period. The Minister might make a statement on the matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy for his question. There are fixed cameras, average speed cameras and GoSafe vans. That type of technology is vital in ensuring that we keep our roads safe. Road safety cameras are intended to be a tool to support safety, prevention and behaviour change across the road network. They are not about catching people out. They are about trying to ensure that we keep our roads safe.  Nine static speed safety cameras have been in operation across the country since 2024. The locations of these cameras were selected based on fatal and serious injury collision data from the preceding seven years and speed data, as well as feedback from stakeholders. We have seen an increase in the total number of fixed charge notices issued for speeding in recent years. In 2024, 137,806 fixed charge notices were issued and in 2025, that went up to 168,882. In terms of analysing any divergences in fixed charge notices generated by particular cameras, I understand that the Garda analysis service supports all functions of the Garda national roads policing bureau. This includes providing the evidence base for roads policing operations, reviewing and analysing operations and providing ongoing support to external stakeholders in the area of road safety.  Further action is being taken in respect of making better or more effective use of static speed cameras.  The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, who is centrally involved in this, published Ireland's first national safety camera strategy in April this year. Officials in my Department were represented on the working group that developed the strategy. The strategy sets out a partnership approach to camera deployment and enforcement between An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, Transport Infrastructure Ireland and the National Transport Authority. This strategy seeks to define the optimal structures and partnerships across State agencies for delivering camera-based enforcement systems on Irish roads going forward, thereby reducing unsafe driver behaviour. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  I thank the Minister. I wholeheartedly agree that these cameras are essential, vital and necessary and play an important role in road safety but we need fairness. We need these cameras to be operated fairly. The Minister cannot tell me there is not a problem when one camera in Glenmore, County Kilkenny is reading speeds for 30,599 fines, another camera read 3,000, some cameras read approximately 1,000 and one in Galway read 397. A person does not need to be a detective to understand that 30,599 fines from one camera indicates there is a problem. Can we have an independent review of this to investigate and interrogate why this is the case? People have said all along that they do not have a problem with the cameras but the signage is the problem. They are being captured and entrapped by these cameras. There is a major problem and it needs to be investigated. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  It is hard for me to contest that the figures indicate there are aberrations in different parts of the country. When the figures were presented to me, I asked the Department why a greater number of fixed charge notices are being issued by two particular cameras and one list of cameras than by others. I do not have an answer for the Deputy at present but I have asked officials to inquire into it. Maybe there is a road people speed on consistently. I do not know the answer but I will look at it and I will ask officials to inquire into it because there is a significant deviation between the notices being issued by cameras in one area and those in other areas. I do not have an explanation for the Deputy but I heard what the Deputy said and I have already asked officials to look at it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  I welcome the Minister's comments. I am not campaigning for people who are speeding to have their fines rescinded. There is a problem with the signage, particularly in Glenmore. People who are driving in a 100 km\/h zone arrive at an 80 km\/h sign and are almost immediately captured by the camera and not given a chance to obey the law. People who were driving below 100 km\/h and were captured by this camera, many of whom were decelerating, should be fairly treated. This one camera generated \u20ac4.9 million in revenue in 11 months. It is off the charts. It needs to be seriously investigated. Court cases are being taken because people have lost their licences as a result of this camera in Glenmore in particular. It is beyond the pale to think we are penalising people unfairly. They must be treated justly and if it comes to it, their fines and points must be rescinded. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I assume people who receive fixed charge notices for speeding are speeding, - hear me out on this - but it may be the case that they are given insufficient time for the change of speed limit from one area coming into another area. I will look at that. I cannot give the Deputy a categoric answer about the reason for this at present but being frank, looking at the data, it seems unusual that two cameras seem to have so many more fixed charge notices emanating from them than others. I do not think it is because people are safer drivers in one area than in another. I suspect the reason is the positioning of the camera, perhaps coming out of an area that permits a faster speed limit into an area that is perhaps very close, with a slower speed limit. That could be the reason for it. I have asked because the figures jumped out at me when I saw them. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Road Safety"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"EU Presidency","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_22.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Ward  It is apt for me to ask this question on the day that is in it. It is particularly about DMR west, which includes Clondalkin and Lucan Garda stations. I have a particular interest in the availability of Garda cars and the Garda community bus. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  Today is an important day for Ireland. It is the first day of the EU Presidency. It is an important function for Ireland. We want to do it well. As I am sure the Deputy will appreciate, it is a big security challenge for An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. Today, the President of Ukraine was here. A huge amount of security was required for his arrival. The Deputy will permit me to take the time to commend the Commissioner and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na on their work today. It is challenging when a figure with as high a profile as President Zelenskyy arrives.  At present, the Garda fleet is the largest it has ever been. There are 3,680 vehicles distributed throughout Garda divisions and specialist units. However, in the months leading up to the Presidency, An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na scaled up its overall fleet capacity. We have moved up fleet capacity for the purpose of the Presidency. It is not as though the fleet is being dispersed because of the Presidency. The scaling up has been the addition of 78 cars, 75 motorcycles and 12 mini-buses.  With respect to vehicles assigned to the Deputy's region, 125 vehicles are currently assigned and available to DMR west. This allocation has increased in recent years, as only 101 vehicles were assigned to the division in 2021.  At the end of May, there were 772 garda\u00ed assigned to DMR west. Some 75 probationers have been assigned from the two attestations held this year. That is the most for any division in the country. If other Deputies were in that position, they would be very happy, because, as the Deputy will be aware, most of the time when people ask me about Garda probationers, they are looking for them. Some 75 have gone this year to DMR west and a further attestation is coming later in July. These garda\u00ed are supported by other national specialist units and by the 63 Garda staff assigned to the division. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Ward  I thank the Minister. DMR west is a huge area. It covers Blanchardstown, Clondalkin, Lucan, Saggart, Rathcoole, Brittas, Palmerstown and the junior Minister's area, Ballyfermot. It is a wide area so we need more than 125 cars. I would like to see that scaled up.  I raised a situation here last year that despite having these 125 cars, on one occasion last year, only one Garda car was available to cover the Clondalkin, Rathcoole, Newcastle, Saggart and Ballyfermot area. On that particular night, there was a serious incident, because of which the car was tied up, and that meant that calls in that area went unanswered. The Garda car did not call out. I have concerns about that.  I asked in the question - I know it was not in the written part - about the availability of the Garda community bus to residents in DMR west during the EU Presidency. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  The Garda community bus will not be used for any Presidency activity so there will not be any impact on it.  On what the Deputy said about the evening where there was only one car, that may have happened but the resources there now are significant. As I said, 125 vehicles are assigned to that division. The Deputy mentioned it is a large division. There are Deputies here representing Kerry and Donegal. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Ward  It is about population size as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  They look at the different sections of Dublin and wonder why they are not getting more of the fleet as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Ward  It is about population. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  The most important thing is that we have resources. I got a lot of good resources for An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na under the national development plan. A huge amount of money is available. I want to see it spent. I want to see the fleet increase and we are seeing it increase. That will be of benefit to the people in the Deputy's area and throughout the country ensuring they can see garda\u00ed in their communities. The most important thing the Deputy and I want to see is garda\u00ed out in communities because it gives a great sense of confidence to people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Ward  I respect that I only mentioned the Garda community bus at the end of my question. I got a response this week from the Garda station saying the DMR west Garda community bus will be unavailable from the end of the month for the rest of the year due to the requirements of the EU Presidency. I met two groups in the area recently, the Quarryvale Butterflies and the Rowlagh women's hub, which are campaigning for an additional bus. The bus that was available was in Blanchardstown, across the River Liffey, and we have managed to get a new bus for that area, which we will use and share. The women were delighted and are still going to campaign for the additional bus.  They are really disappointed with the response I had to send to them this week indicating that the new bus we were getting for the whole of the DMR West was going to be taken for the EU Presidency. We are back to square one with no bus available. This bus is vital for community groups but also for building good, positive relationships with the Garda. I ask that the Minister do everything in his power to restore this bus and also look at funding for an additional bus for the area. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I am sorry that I was not aware of that. I will certainly follow it up. I do not know why a community bus is needed for the Presidency. I do not see the Commissioners going around in a community bus. It is something I will look into.  On the funding, the Deputy might agree it would be preferable if the community had its own bus as opposed to having to use the Garda bus. As he will know, applications can be made to the community safety fund. The Department or rural and community development also has funds available. We will look into the matter and I will raise the issue of the bus. If it is not available for the six months of the Presidency, I am disappointed to hear that. I hope an alternative mode of transport can be provided for that period. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"EU Presidency"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_23","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_23.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  I raise again the issue of scramblers. We all know responsibility for this is across the Minister's Department and that of the Minister, Deputy O'Brien. We need to get to grips with this problem. We need to take back our streets from scramblers, which are being deployed by criminal gangs as a method of muling drugs and intimidating communities. I warmly welcome the enactment of Grace's Law but, on its own, it is not enough. We need to follow up with enforcement of this law. In that context, will the Minister consider implementing a professional licence or a statutory indemnity for garda\u00ed who act reasonably in the pursuit of scramblers? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I agree with everything the Deputy said about scramblers. We need greater enforcement, and I believe that is happening. The tragic death of Grace and the enactment of Grace's Law was a seminal moment that really changed the attitude of this House and the body politic to how we deal with scramblers.  Already in 2026, over 1,000 scramblers and e-bikes have been seized by the Garda. That is considerably up on the figure for last year. I want to see that continue. I have spoken to the Commissioner. He has said to me, and emphasised publicly, that he wants to see a much more robust response from An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, and we are seeing that. Obviously garda\u00ed need to use their discretion when it comes to whether to pursue a scrambler. The most preferable way of dealing with this is through technology. Drones would be a great mechanism to identify where somebody on a scrambler is going. There may be occasions when it is appropriate for garda\u00ed to start off in pursuit but if something goes wrong and an innocent bystander is injured, very serious questions will be raised about why that happened.  I agree with the Deputy on the proposed changes to legislation. As a brief entry into it, I remind him, though I am sure he knows, that in the UK, under the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, there is a separate protection for police officers when it comes to dangerous and careless driving. The provision included there is that a police officer will only be liable for the offence of dangerous driving if \"the way the person drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful constable who has undertaken the same prescribed training\". It is something the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and I are looking at. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  I welcome the Minister's response in that regard but the suggestion made is only one of a suite of measures to combat this reckless carry-on. We need more accountability from importers of scramblers, more Garda pursuit training, more intelligence gathering and more community involvement in handing over intelligence to Garda authorities. Police services in other jurisdictions are provided with training on scramblers to pursue and apprehend people riding scramblers. This Government must urgently support the Garda, not just with legislation but with the wherewithal to pursue, apprehend and prosecute those involved. The courts must also take a very serious view of this behaviour and back our garda\u00ed in their work. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I agree with the Deputy. This requires a multifaceted response. It requires a policing, criminal justice and youth diversion response to ensure we get kids and teenagers away from scramblers and involvement in criminal activity and divert them towards sport or something that is positive for them. Last Friday, I was in East Wall in Deputy Gannon's constituency to see a place where there is a proper scrambler course. That is where they should be used, rather than on the roads or other public places. The message is getting through but the most important thing is strong Garda enforcement, so people who are in public places on scramblers have their bikes seized and retained. I hear what the Deputy said about importers as well. That is something that needs to be looked at. There are trade policy issues in respect of that but it needs a whole-of-government response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  I thank the Minister again. We must act with a comprehensive suite of measures, as he said, and we must make rapid progress on this. I know what he said about thousands of scramblers being seized by garda\u00ed but there are still many on our streets endangering the public, so we must act with speed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I agree with the Deputy. There needs to be enforcement and there is more enforcement. That is why we are seeing more scramblers and e-bikes seized. There needs to be more of that. People need to be aware that if they are using a scrambler on a public road or in a public park, it will be seized. That is the great advantage of Grace's Law. If garda\u00ed see someone in a public place on a scrambler, they know they can seize the bike because it is unlawful activity. I am constantly talking to the Commissioner in respect of this. He is very strong on ensuring we do not permit communities to be terrorised by young people on scramblers. Those bikes need to be seized. We also need to strengthen our legislation. The word is getting out there, though I have no doubt it is still happening, that enforcement is up. We also need a societal response to it that says it is socially unacceptable, as well as unlawful, for people to be on scramblers in public areas because they are endangering their own community. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 7 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_25","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Prison Service","counts":{"speechCount":12,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_25","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_25.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I commend the Minister on his visit to the Alfie Byrne Road on Friday. It was a source of great annoyance to me that he left such a great impression on the lads down there, so well done to him on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  Very good. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Back to the fighting. I want to speak to him about our prison services and the fact that we do not have any specialist dedicated addiction nurses within the Prison Service, despite over 70% of the prison population having addiction needs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy. I had a very good time in his constituency and I also got a present of a Troy Parrott jersey----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I hope he declared it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  -----which is going to be hung in the Department of justice, I am pleased to tell the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Brilliant. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  We have not hired people known as addiction nurses since the mid-2010s. I do not want the Deputy to think - I know he does not think this - that because of that, there are no services. There was a change in how we deal with addressing the addiction needs of people in custody. To use a word that is sometimes overused, the Prison Service adopts a multidisciplinary approach to it. This includes nurses, general practitioners and psychologists, supported by in-reach mental health services and addiction counselling services delivered by Merchants Quay Ireland. Merchants Quay Ireland plays a huge role in the context of the role the addiction nurses used to play. It currently provides 19 addiction counsellors, with one vacancy in Cork Prison. In addition, Merchants Quay Ireland has recently introduced six project workers and two prison recovery educators.  To support rehabilitation, reduce reoffending and facilitate successful reintegration into society, people in custody have access to a broad range of clinical and rehabilitative interventions. These include opioid substitution treatment, counselling, harm reduction initiatives, peer-support programmes and psycho-educational services delivered through prison education units and the prison television channel. Merchants Quay Ireland also delivers the national treatment and rehabilitation programme, which is based in the medication unit at Mountjoy Prison. The Irish Prison Service also works closely with Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous, which provide ongoing support across the prison estate.  As I said, the Prison Service has not employed addiction nurses per se since the mid-2010s. The historic approach of having a narrow and focused resource has been superseded by the prison primary care team and supporting agencies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I am correct in saying that the programme for Government includes a commitment to recruit addiction nurses. The last addiction nurses left in 2016. We have a problem in our prisons. People are going in there with addictions. Over 70% of the prison population, or 4,000 people, entered prison with some form of addiction. The Minister knows our recidivism rates. Almost exactly seven out of ten people who go into prison will reoffend within three years. A large part of that is precisely because the addictions with which they went into prison are being compounded, in many instances, and there are certainly no recovery options. I do not doubt for a second that Merchants Quay Ireland is doing good work within our prisons, but its representatives have also said continuously that, actually, the supports available are not commensurate with the needs they are meeting while they are in there. There are also any number of reports that call for specialist addiction nurses going in, which are different from general practice nurses because the skill level is different. Comprehensive addiction assessments, and management of withdrawal and medication, can be offered by an addiction nurse. All of these are specialist skills. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I have been to 12 of our 13 prisons. I am aware, having spoken to prisoners, prison officers and prison management, of the issues of addiction in prison. However, I also want the Deputy to be aware that there are some success stories as well. There is a lot of good work being done in the prisons in training and getting people off addictive substances. There is success there. The real difficulty is with people who are in for short terms. Even if they get a certain amount of recovery in prison, when they get out they get back on to the appalling vista of addiction. There were six addiction nurses employed by the Prison Service in 2006. However, they had all either left the service or moved into general prison nursing posts by 2016. As I said, the role of addiction nurses has now been superseded by the prison primary care team and supporting agencies. The Irish Prison Service actively reviews the need for addiction nurses. However, there are no plans in the short term to recruit dedicated addiction nurses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  The Minister might want to check the programme for Government in terms of the plans in relation to that, but okay. We have a profound problem when it comes to our prisons. I do not doubt for a second that there are some success stories, but that is by no means the norm. That is actually a failure of opportunity because we talk about the people going into prison for absolute reasons, but while they are there, there is an opportunity to ensure that when they come out, they do not continue the hurt that led them there in the first place. That does require intensive treatments for addiction. At the moment in our prisons, clearly, that is not being met. I do not doubt the work the Minister mentioned by Merchants Quay Ireland. However, that is the moment of intervention when we can actually prevent the follow-on hurt that is coming from a recidivism rate that is extraordinarily high because the addictions are not being dealt with in there. I can reference any number of reports that talk about the need for addiction specialist nurses, the most recent being the Crowe report on prison healthcare in 2022. We need to reflect on the absence of those specific specialists in our prisons. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  There are a lot of services there providing assessments and care planning, evidence-based interventions, including support for opioid substitution treatment, detoxification and overdose prevention and helping people to access community services on release to reduce relapse and reoffending. There is a good amount of work being done within the Prison Service. There is obviously more that needs to be done. I fully appreciate that. Merchants Quay Ireland is doing a very good job. There is a real challenge in the prisons in terms of trying to deal with people's addiction. I would love to see more resources available to ensure that people can be weaned off addictive substances while they are in prison. The truth of the matter is that there is an opportunity. We do have to use it. I do not mean this facetiously, but there is a captive audience when somebody is in prison. We can try to work on them in the hope that they will not gain access to drugs while in prison. There is a lot of good work being done in keeping drugs out of prisons. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Prison Service"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_26","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Provision","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_26","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_26.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Murphy  Following on from the decision to withdraw from State-contracted commercial accommodation for beneficiaries of temporary accommodation, to what extent has a review been undertaken of the long-term role and cost-effectiveness of modular accommodation centres, of which there are 11, including whether alternative future uses for such facilities are being considered in light of that change in accommodation policy? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy for his question. He is referring to developments in Clonmel. The Deputy has spoken to me before about that. I know it is an issue of concern to him.  The rapid build modular units, including those in Clonmel, were built to accommodate beneficiaries of temporary protection fleeing the war in Ukraine. In total, we have 654 units across 11 locations across the country, accommodating 2,640 people in family units of four with children. The long-term use of these units has always been an important aim of the rapid build project. These homes are durable units with an expected 60-year lifespan and are highly energy efficient. They were all developed in an environmentally friendly way.  The Office of Public Works, OPW, is undertaking a post-project completion report to which my Department has contributed. It is still being drafted and is not yet available. To determine the long-term strategy for the sites post temporary protection, we are starting a process of consulting stakeholders. That started back in March 2025 and is chaired by officials from my Department, including people from the OPW and the Department of housing. In tandem with the consideration of the feasibility of potential future uses, this work involves exploring planning regularisation at each site. There has been no final decision made yet on long-term future use as discussions are ongoing. We will explore all potential options within the local areas. These options include social housing and lower-cost affordable housing, such as cost rental. Obviously, the residents there will not be required to vacate this accommodation until March 2027. To meet the conditions of the scheme, they can apply to the new temporary protection transitional scheme. I do not know if they will come within that, but that is an option for them. To date, full occupancy has been maintained with over 90 units relocated since the sites were first occupied. We have not reached a final decision on what will happen after March. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Murphy  I thank the Minister. I want to focus on Clonmel. As he said, there are 654 units at the national level, of which 82 are in Clonmel. From the very outset, not all, but the vast majority of people understood that these modular homes were built as an emergency response to the war in Ukraine. They accepted that such extraordinary circumstances required extraordinary measures. I am somewhat concerned, though, that there is no final decision on the future of these sites despite that multi-agency process the Minister referred to, which has been under way since 2025. What I am really looking for is an assurance that consultation will take place with the local authority, the locally elected representatives and, in particular, local communities living close to the development. I would really welcome the assurance that engagement and consultation will take place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I think that has to happen. These have got the support of the Deputy, other local representatives and the community. There needs to be engagement, and that engagement needs to continue. There are also units that can be used. As I said, they could be used for social housing or other purposes. Obviously, we will also take into consideration any suggestions the Deputy or other local representatives have in respect of them. There is uncertainty at present because of the ongoing temporary protection directive. It looks like it will be extended; it may be extended on terms, but it looks like it is going to be extended beyond March 2027. I do think, and I agree with the Deputy, that there needs to be a plan as to what we are going to use these very valuable and useful units for. Certainly, I believe there should be, and I want to see, consultation with the community before any decisions are made by officials within Government Departments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Murphy  I welcome confirmation that these are durable homes with a 60-year lifespan. Indeed, I further welcome the Minister's suggestion around social housing or perhaps cost rental. It would be helpful as well if that Office of Public Works post-project completion report is published, particularly in the interests of transparency.  The units in Clonmel were built at an average cost of \u20ac436,000 each. Taxpayers have invested many millions of euro. I welcome confirmation from the Minister that the people of Clonmel, together with Tipperary County Council local elected representatives, will have a genuine opportunity to shape the future of the Heywood Road modular unit site. That is key. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  They did cost the State a lot of money. They are a valuable resource that we own and we want to see them used effectively.  The Deputy talks about Clonmel. There are 82 units in Clonmel accommodating potentially up to 328 people, but there are ten other sites around the country as well, some of which are even bigger than that in Clonmel. We need to have a plan for what we will use this valuable resource for. They have a good lifespan. They are something that will be of great benefit, I would have thought, to local authorities or, indeed, the Department of housing for the purpose of providing accommodation for those who are in need of accommodation because they clearly are very suitable as medium-to-long-term accommodation units. I will certainly keep in close touch with the Deputy in respect of the matter. The Deputy can always come to me and raise the issue. I will certainly insist that there is engagement on it before any decision is made. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 10 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Provision"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Family Reunification","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_27.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aindrias Moynihan  Family reunification for people recruited here for critical skills is an issue I have raised here previously and it still has not been addressed adequately. I am constantly getting people into my office raising their situation with me where they are waiting for their spouse and children 18 months and more. It is very difficult on families. What immediate action can be taken to reduce those delays? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  As the Deputy will be aware, Deputy Brophy has ministerial responsibility for this, but he and I have a close and shared view in respect of this issue. Obviously, we both fully recognise that so-called join family visa applications are very important for the people involved. I understand that people are eager to have their families join them in Ireland and I can appreciate why Deputy Moynihan, as a hard-working Deputy, or, indeed, any other Deputy in the House, is asked frequently by persons who have such occupations as to when they will be provided.  My Department operates seven overseas visa offices, as well as the visa office in Dublin. Processing times for these join family applications can take time. They can vary between visa offices. Most visa applications receive a decision within our published target times. Some applications can take longer, depending on the circumstances. Processing times are influenced by a number of factors, including the complexity of the application, the volume of applications received, and the quality and completeness of the information provided. It is important to recall these applications are screening processes. They require careful probing in order to establish that the person has a legitimate reason to come to Ireland prior to travel.  A critical skills employment permit holder, as I say, can apply for a join family visa at the same time as their employment visa. These applications can then be processed together and typically receive a first instance decision within the ten-to-12 week business target. People who make join family visa applications separately, will generally receive a first instance decision within the 12 month business target. In December 2025, the immigration service of my Department introduced online payment functionality to my Department's online visa system. This allows applicants to pay visa fees as part of the online application process. The initiative is being rolled out on a phased basis and is currently live in 40 countries. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aindrias Moynihan  First, I acknowledge the headway that is being made on it. On the idea that most are within target, for many that is not their lived reality. To put it in context, these are the people who are caring for our elderly in our nursing homes, caring for us in our hospitals, maybe doing the NCT on our cars and maybe even cultivating our food on our farms, and they are not able to have their family around them. Many of them, Indians and Filipinos, who have been in contact with me on it are telling me of experiences of 18 month and more. That is a big stress and pressure on families. Is it a capacity issue to clear the backlog that is there? Can people who are waiting longest be prioritised? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  Last year, I and the Minister of State, Deputy Brophy, introduced a new non-EEA family reunification policy. It sets out the rules that apply in respect of it. Every country in the world has a regulated system in respect of family reunification. It has to involve a system where there are rules in place. If you fit within the rules and you have the resources to bring family members over, it is permissible.  Part of the reason, I suppose, is that there are so many visa applications being received in the Department of justice. For instance, last year we received over 206,000 visa applications. That was an increase on the previous year as well. There are a lot of join family visas issued as well. In 2025, there were 14,599 join family visas. That was down on 2024. It was 17,000 that year. They have to be probed carefully. I cannot just say, \"Give out the family visa\". "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aindrias Moynihan  It is right and proper that there would be proper checks and verification and a thorough examination of all of the different applications. The experience that I am hearing from my constituents is that it takes approximately 18 months or more. I understand that there is a target of 12 months. Even that target seems lengthy, and it is difficult for families. Is it the case that it is slow because there are not enough people to deal with the backlog? Is there a need for additional staffing to clear a short-term backlog and to prioritise people who have been waiting the longest? It is a pressure on those people who have been hired to do critical work in our communities. That pressure will often put them thinking on whether they should be going back home and leaving a skills gap that we need to fill here as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  A critical skills employment permit holder who applies for a join family visa at the same time as their employment visa typically receives a first instance decision within the ten- to 12-week business target. For stand-alone join family applications and those linked to general employment permits, the current business target for a first instance decision is 12 months. I know they can be frustrating. I assure anyone who has made an application for a join family visa that my Department is doing everything possible to progress these as quickly as possible. It is not an issue of resourcing within the Department. There are a lot of staff in the Department of justice working on this but it requires a lot of information to be procured, to be examined and to be assessed before a decision is made in respect of it. Through advocacy by Deputies such as Deputy Moynihan, the message is coming loud and clear to me and I will pass that back to officials in the Department that I want us to try to see the process expedited. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 12 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Family Reunification"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_28","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Visa Applications","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_28","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_28.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  Will the Minister to provide an update on the Department's progress in establishing a single application process for employment permits and visa applications, the progress that has been made to date by the interdepartmental group established to review this process, and will he make a statement on the matter? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  As the Deputy will be aware, the Minister of State, Deputy Brophy, is centrally involved in this. Government approved plans in May 2024 to introduce a single permit for people coming to Ireland to live and work. Currently, employment permits, visas and residency permits are processed separately. This is a significant technical project involving the integration of two IT systems. In the short term, we are streamlining the existing process by removing duplication, aligning online information and introducing a single payment model. These improvements will make the system simpler and more efficient.  In recent weeks, the Minister of State, Deputy Brophy, had a very productive meeting with the Minister of State with responsibility for employment, small business and retail, Deputy Alan Dillon, and his officials on this project.  The project is progressing through a phased development and scoping process, with ongoing cross-departmental engagement to support the design and testing of the proposed model prior to wider implementation. A pilot is also currently being scoped out to test the proposed new approach to delivering the single permit directive.  Changes introduced in 2024 also mean that spouses and partners of employment permit holders can now take up employment without requiring separate employment authorisation. These initiatives support the long-term sustainability of our economy while recognising the important contribution that legal migrants make to our society.  My Department is also leading the development of Ireland\u2019s first whole-of-government migration strategy, which I and Minister of State, Deputy Brophy, are working on intensively, and we hope to publish this strategy later this year. There is progress being made in respect of this. The Ministers of State, Deputies Brophy and Dillon, are centrally involved in it and I hope to be able to provide the Deputy with further progress reports on final timelines in due course. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I raise this because one of the areas where I have had many people on to me is for those who are working in nursing homes. There seems to be a huge problem between work permits and residency permits. For instance, I had one case which I sent a parliamentary question on to the Minister, where the person made an application for an IRP card on 6 March and by 30 June - 16 weeks later - it still had not issued. I am concerned there is a lack of information for both employers and employees about the process. I have had cases where applications should have been made well before the card expired, but many people are not doing that and there needs to be more information sent out by the Department.  However, I am concerned about the 16 weeks for an IRP card application that still has not been issued as of today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  That is a concerning period, but people sometimes leave applications until the very last moment and that is not good practice. It will create difficulties for them, so we need to encourage people who are applying for renewals to apply early.  As I said, an implementation team has been established jointly between my Department and the Department of enterprise to commence implementation of the single permit model. This is really the solution to the issue, Deputy. The programme is being delivered on a phased basis in the short-term and officials are examining how best to re-engineer processes to remove duplication and scope possible technical solutions. A single approach to how work permits and visas can be processed is also being developed, with changes to include a single payment model.  I understand the Deputy's concern in respect of the delays, and obviously, this can apply to anyone in the House, but if there are issues with respect to applications they think merit bringing to my attention or that of the Minister of State, Deputy Brophy, they may feel free to do so. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  Where it really affects my constituency is, taking Apple computers for instance, which is the biggest employer in the constituency, there are people from 90 different nationalities working in that facility and it is important that this information gets out to employers. The problem arising is the delays in the processing now. I outlined the case of 16 weeks, which should not be happening, but people are being advised they must apply and that it will take 12 weeks. There is then the whole issue of the period in which people can continue to work even where the card has not been renewed on time. That also needs to be looked at.  Until such time that we streamline the system and make it far easier for people to have both the work permit and residency permit and all the processes sorted, we will have people - and I have had several of them - who will be laid off work until the issue has been resolved, which is now causing problems. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  It is a challenging task from the point of view of the Department. I have been to the section of the Department dealing with visa applications, and there are huge numbers of people there; you realise the extent to which each application has to be considered and appraised individually. There is a significant number of applications coming in and they need to be considered individually.  I hear what the Deputy has said about Apple. Obviously, we want to ensure people who are here believe and feel they get an effective response from the public service in Ireland. In general, I believe they do. However, one of the consequences and downsides of being a TD is people only ever come to us problems. People who are happy with the systems in operation do not contact us to commend us on the service we provide. We only really see things when issues have arisen and there are failings in the system, but there are many successes also. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Visa Applications"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_29","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_29","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_29.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Catherine Ardagh)  The Garda Commissioner is responsible for the management and allocation of Garda resources. We are assured by the Commissioner that, when allocating Garda resources, consideration is given to commitments and undertakings outlined in the annual policing plan. The requirements of all Garda divisions nationwide are also taken into account, which include local and national crime trends and workloads, policing arrangements and operational strategies, local population and trends, and geographical area and size. Transfer applications, including welfare, personnel issues and concerns, are also taken into account.  Under budget 2026, the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Callaghan, secured funding of \u20ac2.74 billion for An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to support recruitment and staffing. This will support recruitment of up to 1,000 garda\u00ed, 200 more Garda staff and additional members of the Garda Reserve. Significant initiatives have been taken to boost recruitment, which have been reflected in the numbers entering the Garda College, which was just under 800 in 2025.  As the Deputy will know, recruitment into An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na has gathered real momentum and we are determined to ensure we have a steady pipeline of new recruits into the Garda College so that we can see more garda\u00ed assigned all around the country. Interestingly, the most recent recruitment competition, which closed on 3 June 2026, attracted 4,115 applications. This brings the total number of applications received to join An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to over 15,000 since February 2025.  We are informed that as of 31 May 2026, there are 561 garda\u00ed assigned to the Meath-Westmeath division. This includes 323 garda\u00ed assigned to the Meath south and Meath north community engagement areas, which include Ashbourne, Kells, Navan and Trim. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  As regards those figures, it is 323 garda\u00ed in Meath compared with 335 in 2020. The current figures are up a little bit on last year but, compared with 2009 and 2010, we have seen practically no increase. At the same time, we have had a very significant increase in population. The Minister of State outlined the type of consideration the Garda Commissioner makes in terms of allocation of resources, and one of them is local population and trends, and geographical area and size. There must be no weight on that consideration, if County Meath is anything to go by.  What efforts will the Minister of State make to bring County Meath up the ranking tables in terms of the number of garda\u00ed per population, so that it is at least commensurate with other counties of a similar size? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  Obviously, population trends are monitored on a continuous basis, but looking at what we are doing to ensure overall community safety in County Meath, the Department is pleased to secure \u20ac8 million in budget 2026 for the national office for community safety to ensure the office carries out its functions, including its support for local community partnerships and the work on the national development of a national strategy for community safety.  Much of the Deputy's constituency is obviously rural. One of our success stories is Operation Thor. Several Garda operations are already supporting the plan, such as Operations Thor and T\u00e1irge, which tackle burglaries and theft from homes and retail crime, respectively.  In recent years, An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na has had unprecedented success in reducing and preventing burglaries through Operation Thor. In the ten years since Operation Thor began, burglary and related offences have declined overall, and the number of residential burglaries during the winter months of October to March have fallen by a remarkable 75%. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  There are 220,000 people in County Meath and there are 323 garda\u00ed. Whatever way we cut it up, rural or urban, and the division between them, that is nowhere near enough. I have two specific points. Some of it is the responsibility of the Garda Commissioner. The resource allocation model has to be reflective of the growing population and of the demands in the community. One of the issues is the number of training stations. The number of stations that new recruits can actually be deployed to is limited. That has to be reviewed. The Minister of State has a target set out, and she referenced the annual service plan, of 14,820 sworn garda\u00ed by the end of the year. Will she hit that target? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  I take the opportunity to commend the garda\u00ed on the street. We are seeing huge effort being put in garda\u00ed, not just in Dublin city but on a nationwide basis. We can see the number of people going through Templemore and the standard of the garda\u00ed coming out of Templemore is really noticeable. Population trends and community trends are always under review. We are using census data to ensure that populations are represented according to increases in the local population. This will be reviewed on a continuous basis. The Deputy's point is well made and I thank him for asking this question. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_30","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Domestic Violence","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_30","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_30.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I am taking this question on behalf Deputy Bennett. It is to ask the Minister for a timeframe in which we will see domestic refuges open in Cavan and Monaghan. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I recall when I started as Minister, Deputies Carthy and Bennett, the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, from Fianna F\u00e1il, and their fifth colleague----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  David Maxwell "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  David Maxwell as well. The issue is that there were no plans for Cavan and Monaghan. As Deputy Carthy now knows, the Cavan-Monaghan region is listed as a priority area for refuge development under zero tolerance. The capital assistance scheme, CAS, stage 1 application for a refuge site in Monaghan was approved by the Department of housing last October. Work is ongoing towards submitting a stage 2 application, which will include further detail and costings on the full extent of works that will be required. The CAS process, I regret, takes on average 75 weeks, with construction typically taking 15 to 18 months. Safe Ireland is the lead approved housing body on this development. This new refuge facility will include 12 independent units of refuge accommodation, along with essential ancillary services, thereby strengthening domestic violence support in the region.  Developments have been progressed with the support of Cuan. An interim refuge with five family units will open in Monaghan this year. Cavan and Monaghan county councils will allocate three units, to deliver three safe homes in each county this year, which will be run by Safe Ireland. All key stakeholders are working together to ensure there is a substantial increase in service across the Cavan-Monaghan region. Safe Ireland is working with the stakeholder group to create a solid infrastructure and a coherent connected response across both counties. An interim refuge with five family units will open in Monaghan this year. It will be run by Safe Ireland. It is being put in place in order to strengthen domestic violence supports in the region. I am conscious that we did not have plans a year and a half ago. There are now plans in place for Cavan and Monaghan. Progress has been made in respect of them. I cannot give the Deputy a date but he knows that an interim refuge will open in Monaghan this year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I welcome that there has been progress. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  When I was first elected as a TD and raised this issue, the Minister at the time disputed that there was a need at all. There has been quite significant movement. In fact, after the horrendous killing of Ashling Murphy, there was unanimous agreement in this House that every county should, at a minimum, have one refuge. I am holding Government to that. The process for delivering refuges needs to be speeded up drastically. The suggestion that from the beginning of planning to final completion stage could be three or even four years is far too long to deliver what should be a simple infrastructure project.  The second point I want to emphasise relates to the geography of Cavan and Monaghan. The distance from Blacklion at the far end of Cavan to east County Monaghan is a third of the width of the island of Ireland. It is unfeasible to suggest that one centre would cater for the entire two counties. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy for acknowledging the progress that has been made. I want to ensure that we speed up the process. It is important that we have a good geographic spread of refuges and safe homes throughout the country. It probably will be the case that every county will have one but I am cautious about trying to adopt it as though it is just a county thing. It needs to be spread out in areas where, demographically, refuges are needed. I also repeatedly emphasised, and I am sure that the Deputy will agree, that refuges are short-term solutions to deal with women who have been subjected to domestic violence and need immediate short-term accommodation. The ultimate solution is that the person who is the abuser is the person who should get out of the house as opposed to the woman having to get out of the house and end up in a refuge for lengthy periods. That is legislative measure I am working on too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  The difficulty when dealing with gender, sexual and domestic violence is that there is not a neat provision. That is why refuges are required. There is not a neat one-size-fits-all approach. I am aware, as I am sure colleagues are, of situations where it is not feasible and certainly not in the victim's interest to return to her home, and it is predominantly her home, particularly in rural areas. Peculiarities about the homestead or home parish need to be taken into account. We know there is demand from Women's Aid and all the organisations. In fact, Men's Aid tells us there is a need for men's refuge spaces too, although much fewer. We know there is a critical need. Women's Aid, Rape Crisis Ireland and all the front-line organisations have told us that there needs to be much greater capacity in terms of refuge spaces. As well as looking at demographics, we have to look at geography, particularly when dealing with counties like Cavan and Monaghan, where the public transport network is so deficient. We need a refuge in each centre. The timeframes we are talking about mean that we need to advance the second refuge now as opposed to putting it on the long finger. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  Safe homes are very important too and local authorities are providing safe homes, which are places that can be used as safe accommodation for women fleeing violence. Monaghan County Council have promised three safe homes. It is the same with Cavan. There is a need for refuges. If we have more time to have a debate on this, we really need to look at the root causes of these issues as.well. One thing that we will try to do in the Department for the next strategy is to do more research on why certain men get involved in domestic violence. I know people might say that we do not want to spend money on dealing with the perpetrators but we do need to research the perpetrators and find out why certain men are getting involved in violence in a domestic arrangement. People repeatedly tell me that online extreme violent pornography is having a distorting impact on young people. I am fearful about how that will develop in the future. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 16 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Domestic Violence"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Crime Prevention","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_31.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I ask the Minister for an update on the work of his Department to counter money laundering in the State. I am sure that, no more than me, he has been contacted by many people, particularly parents, where kids have been stupid, got messages on the Internet and fallen stupidly into being a money mule, or even other scenarios where they have fallen in with their friends and been used and abused to a degree. In some cases, it is small numbers but still significant, but in others, huge sums have been put through people's accounts. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy. He asks an opportune question because last week, along with the T\u00e1naiste, I launched Ireland's third national risk assessment on money laundering, terrorist financing and proliferation financing. Risk assessments are key in identifying the risks from money laundering and terrorist financing. There was a report that contains a lot of useful information. One of the things I was trying to do last week, and it is important that we emphasise it again, is that there are many commercial enterprises which are not fulfilling their money laundering obligations. If somebody comes into a shop with \u20ac10,000 in cash and they want to buy a handbag, piece of clothing or something like that, it should trigger immediate concern. There are statutory obligations on the part of the shop owner. That is an area that An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is concerned about, that a lot of money laundering is being done by purchasing expensive products. There was the introduction of a ban on cash payments over \u20ac10,000 and the extension of anti-money laundering laws to new sectors, including football clubs.  My Department's anti-money laundering compliance unit is engaging with the Central Bank on the establishment of the EU anti-money laundering authority, which will be vital to maintaining the stability and transparency of the EU financial system. On Monday, I signed the Criminal Justice (Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing) (Administrative Sanctions) Regulations 2026 into law, providing the anti-money laundering compliance unit with the power to impose administrative financial sanctions on trust or company service providers for breaches of the Act.  The Deputy mentioned the issue of money mules. People need to be aware that if something looks too good to be true, it generally is not true. They need to be really careful and cautious, because they will find themselves before the courts getting a conviction for doing something that is very serious. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  The Minister is right. It is about getting the message out there that as much as somebody might stupidly fall into this, the ramifications for their future life can be serious, as they should be. It is not only kids who are involved in this. We are talking about some highly sophisticated operations. There is huge money in the drugs business. We know the huge impact it has on individuals and communities. The impact on communities is the reason the Committee on Drugs Use came up with the recommendations that it has. We know what is happening at the minute is insufficient and is not dealing with the issue. That is the reality, no matter what the Minister's view is on decriminalisation. We have to get serious. We need to make sure we have the capacity to deal with everything from businesses to small operations that can build into big operations, where people were taking control of people's bank accounts, putting huge money through them and leaving them open to prosecution and whatever else. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na has a good record when it comes to organised crime. I was at an event last Friday to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the murder of Veronica Guerin. If we think about that, in terms of the organised drug gangs in Ireland, many of them have been taken out of action by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. They went to Spain. They were then chased out of there. They went to the United Arab Emirates and they are being chased out of there. You cannot get away from the consequences of your actions. It is inevitably the case that somebody is going to take over. For as long as there is a demand for drugs, there is going to be a business in drugs. We also need a strong message to go out that people who get involved in serious crime, in terms of organised crime, are going to face serious sentences. There are lots of people in prison for organised crime and drug dealing. They have been given lengthy sentences. I urge anyone who thinks they can make money easily by allowing their accounts to be used by others to reconsider. They will find themselves before the courts and, potentially, in prison. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  We all welcome the action that was taken after the death of Veronica Guerin. It is a pity it took that. I do not think there is anyone who has not welcomed the action taken against the Kinahans. We need to see more of it - quicker, better and faster. It is as simple as that. I have seen many instances of the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, taking houses or vehicles off people. Unfortunately, that is just the cost of doing business and they are back in operation the next day. As much as we are not going to police our way out of this situation, we need to deal with those serious criminals who are involved in violence and using vulnerable and younger people to clean their money. It is vital we get the message out there. There will have to be action against those who are doing this. The fact is that we need a huge level of support, including early family supports to deal with the underlying issues in some of these cases. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  The Criminal Assets Bureau has a good record. To go back to Veronica Guerin, her murder inspired the enactment of the proceeds of crime legislation and the establishment of CAB. The bureau has a strong record. Other European countries are interested in the fact that one can have a non-conviction based seizure process. People have assets taken from them which are the proceeds of crime, but it is on the balance of probabilities. We do not need to establish in front of a jury. Strong evidence is put forward by a chief superintendent. I commend CAB on the outstanding work it does. It is seizing a lot of assets. At the end of each year, there is a CAB auction online and one can see the types of products that have been seized, including watches, expensive handbags and clothing. The money that CAB generates as a result of the auctions is significant, although obviously it is just a fraction of the money that was spent on these goods. It shows the level of money that is involved in drugs. That is why we need a consistent message in respect of drug gangs, that the State will stand up to them and take them out. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 18 and 19 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Crime Prevention"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Child Protection","counts":{"speechCount":9,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-07-01\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_32.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  It is appropriate that we move on from discussing the successes of CAB and the evolution of how we target the drugs gangs. That has consequences in terms of how the gangs have tried to innovate. One callous activity they have engaged in is the coercion of children into crime. I do not believe eight- and nine-year-olds were being used as drug smugglers 30 years ago. Today, the prevalence of that is substantial. I want to talk about the coercion of children into crime. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  The Deputy, the Minister and I all represent inner-city Dublin constituencies and we know very well the devastation the grooming of children into criminality has on all our communities. I have delegated responsibility for youth justice, and it has been a priority of mine since before my appointment to the Department of justice. I am very glad to take this question today.  The Government\u2019s Youth Justice Strategy 2021-2027 creates a whole-of-government framework to address the challenges around children and young adults' involvement in the criminal justice system. It assesses how we can stop young people from becoming recurring adult offenders, as the Deputy described. Among the key actions within the strategy is targeting harder to reach groups, including those subject to grooming and coercive control by criminals.  An interesting programme the Deputy may be aware of is the Greentown programme, which aims to disrupt the grooming of children into network-related criminal activity by adults and provides children with meaningful and practical routes out of these networks. It is made up of four strands, namely, an intensive family programme to help with parenting and general family functioning; providing young people with pro-social opportunities; supporting communities to withstand gang and network influences; and targeting groomers and disrupting their networks. The first Greentown programme progress report from 2023 found that there have been notable improvements in reducing the influence of criminal networks in the trial site communities, including that children and families are better enabled to withstand the powerful attraction of network membership and to make pro-social choices. I am hoping the Greentown project will be rolled out across our communities in the future. Support is provided from An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and expert youth justice services specialising in family support and engaging with hard-to-reach young people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  I can hear the Minister of State's passion for this area. The problem is that in 2017 or 2018 the Greentown project, in its first national survey, found that at any one time over 1,000 children in the State were being coerced into crime. Between 2018 and 2026, every metric has got worse. I have to assume the coercion of children into crime has got worse. The Greentown project has good outcomes but it is very small and geographically based. I would like to see a national programme that is funded, seeks to prioritise prevention and recognises that the factors that make a child vulnerable to be coerced into crime are often the conditions in which they are born, with poverty foremost among them.  Even today we are talking about young people on scramblers, which is very dangerous and we need to cut it out, but a lot of those young people have been coerced into using those scramblers to sell drugs. Only 17 charges have been made so far under Fagin's law. What are we going to do to improve how we go after people who are targeting children? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  As the Deputy knows, we are coming up to the end of our youth justice strategy and we will have a new strategy as of the end of 2027. The Greentown project has been extended. The extension of the programme has reduced the influence of criminal networks on children at risk of involvement in crime and improved the likelihood of pro-social outcomes for children who are already involved in criminal networks. We know that investment in these programmes does work, albeit in pilot and smaller models. I agree with the Deputy that this will have to be rolled out across the country, especially across large urban areas. We know, because we represent those areas, that that is where we have the problem.  The Criminal Justice (Engagement of Children in Criminal Activity) Act 2024 makes it an offence for an adult to compel, coerce, direct or deceive a child for the purpose of engaging in criminal activity or induce, invite, aid, abet, counsel or procure a child to engage in criminal activity.  On CAB and----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Minister of State. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  Sorry. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Minister of State will be back in. Deputy Gannon, finally. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  The Criminal Justice (Engagement of Children in Criminal Activity) Act 2024 was welcome but there are flaws in the legislation in that it has the expectation built in that a child would be the witness to their own coercion. Too often we do not see children and young people who are being coerced into this as victims even by the very fact that we talked about the recurring offences. We separate ourselves from the fact that these children are literally being coerced into crime. Sometimes we assume it is through money or financial gain but it is often through the threat of violence to them or their parents.  This is a national problem. It extends beyond urban areas into more rural parts. Much of the anecdotal evidence we have on the level of drug-related intimidation in the State involves children being used to carry out the violence. It is at a level where it has to be an extensive national priority to prevent this, to convict those who do it and to stop a network of young people being dragged into this through violence and coercion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  I agree with the Deputy. Words like \"multidisciplinary\" and \"multidepartmental\" are often used very flippantly but education has a piece, as do criminal justice and the HSE. We, as legislators, have a piece. Supporting our local community is a part of the puzzle. We all must play our part in it.  On what we can do from a community point of view, I have been to many of the projects in Ballyfermot like skate parks. The Deputy will be aware of the community safety fund, an annual grant fund that supports short- to medium-term projects which allow for the proceeds of crime to be directed back into communities. We have seen some really successful projects around the country where we use ill-gotten gains to fund innovative local projects aimed at building stronger, safer communities. I know Deputies from across the House welcome this. Since the fund launched in 2022, it has supported 127 community safety projects nationally. Over successive years the community safety fund has expanded in both reach and impact, supporting projects addressing youth engagement, domestic and gender-based violence, restorative justice, substance misuse and antisocial behaviour. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 10.24 p.m. go dt\u00ed 8.47 a.m., D\u00e9ardaoin, an 2 I\u00fail 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 10.24 p.m. until 8.47 a.m. on Thursday, 2 July 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Child Protection"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-07-01"},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-07-06T12:48:57+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-06-30","counts":{"contributorCount":173,"divisionCount":9,"debateSectionCount":13,"questionCount":32,"billCount":11},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":72,"speakerCount":9},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-Burke.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Peter-Burke.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Before I call Deputy McDonald, I take this opportunity to welcome Councillor Alison Field, who is in the Public Gallery and who became deputy Lord Mayor of Dublin City Council last night. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Tomorrow is an important day that will provide a serious test for the Government. More than 1 million households will be hit with hikes in gas and electricity prices. Customers of Electric Ireland, the country's largest electricity supplier, and Yuno Energy face increased bills. These sharp increases range from 8% to 11% and will heap more pressure on people. The hikes will kick in as households deal with rising rents, increasing food prices and expensive back-to-school costs. That is before we mention the sky-high cost of car insurance and childcare. The bills keep coming. They keep going up and up, and people are fed up with being ripped off.  I want to remind the Taoiseach of something, which is that Irish households already pay the highest electricity prices in the European Union. On average, we pay more than \u20ac500 more per year than our European neighbours. As the Taoiseach knows, we already have record numbers of people who are unable to pay their energy bills, with more than 500,000 household accounts in arrears. That is the context and the backdrop. That is what families are facing as these new hikes come at them tomorrow. The hikes will hit hard-working families. These are people who work every hour they can and who do everything they can to build a good life for themselves and their families. No matter what they do, however, there seems to be a constant uphill battle and a constant rip-off. These are the families that are squeezed and squeezed.  Here is the worst of it. The Government has known these hikes were coming for weeks, because the increases were announced at the end of May. It has had more than a month to act and to step in to protect people, but, true to form, it has done nothing at all. Energy has to be affordable for people. We need to get costs under control and end the rip-off. We have to support people while costs are so high. The Taoiseach should rein in the energy companies, which are making massive profits. He should see to it that energy credits are reinstated, because his job is to take action to ease the pressure on people and families. Why is the Government allowing this scandalous profiteering to go unchecked. Why is it content to sit back and allow more than 1 million households to take the hit? The uncertainty, stress and pressure people are being asked to live with is not right and is not fair. People deserve better.  \u00d3n l\u00e1 am\u00e1rach, beidh bill\u00ed leictreachais agus g\u00e1is ag m\u00e9ad\u00fa go g\u00e9ar do n\u00edos m\u00f3 n\u00e1 1 milli\u00fan teaghlach. Cuirfidh s\u00e9 n\u00edos m\u00f3 br\u00fa ar theaghlaigh at\u00e1 ag streachailt go dona cheana f\u00e9in. Cad at\u00e1 an Rialtas chun a dh\u00e9anamh faoi seo?  This comes down to choices. The Government should choose to step up, have the backs of households faced with these energy price hikes and take action to rein in the energy companies. It should provide people with the support they need here and now. That means intervening directly and providing the energy credits that households need. Will the Government make these choices? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I dt\u00fas b\u00e1ire, admha\u00edm go bhfuil deacrachta\u00ed ann agus go bhfuil teaghlaigh faoi bhr\u00fa maidir leis an gcostas maireacht\u00e1la, go h\u00e1irithe de dheasca an chogaidh san Iar\u00e1in. Is l\u00e9ir go raibh drochthionchar ag an gcogadh sin ar phraghsanna. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 sin soil\u00e9ir. T\u00e1 an-chuid d\u00e9anta ag an Rialtas, \u00e1fach, chun an br\u00fa sin a \u00edsli\u00fa agus chun cabhair agus taca\u00edocht a thabhairt do dhaoine. Faoi dheireadh na bliana, beidh suas le \u20ac1 billi\u00fan n\u00edos m\u00f3 curtha ar f\u00e1il againn do mhuintir na t\u00edre i gcompar\u00e1id leis an m\u00e9id a chuireamar ar f\u00e1il i gcomhth\u00e9acs na c\u00e1inaisn\u00e9ise is d\u00e9ana\u00ed i m\u00ed Dheireadh F\u00f3mhair seo caite.  Families have been under pressure in respect of the cost-of-living issue. The latter has been exacerbated by significant events in recent years, not least the exit from Covid, the supply chain inflationary crisis and the spiral that followed that, the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and the energy that followed that, the tariff situation relating to the United States and the war in the Middle East between the United States and Iran, which led to the largest ever supply shock in terms of fuel and to consequential increases in fuel prices.  In the first instance, budget 2026 provided a lot of significant supports. First, we had the increase in the core rates. We also had the significant increases in child support payments, which helped families that have children and that are on the lowest incomes. Record allocations were made in respect of those payments, including, for example to the fuel allowance. What was done meant that a lone-parent family with one child saw an increase of nearly 9% or \u20ac1,800 in payments from the Department as a result of our budgetary decisions. A two-adult household received increases in payments of up to \u20ac2,300 as a result of those decisions. Other measures we took include free hot school meals and free schoolbooks in primary schools. We took a lot of charges out of the health service to facilitate families in particular. These measures were all with a view to helping families deal with the crisis. We reduced VAT and have kept the VAT on electricity charges down to 9%. That will continue out to 2030.  Deputy McDonald said we did nothing. We introduced a special package of between \u20ac755 million and \u20ac771 million at that stage in order to alleviate the pressures on people and on the transport and food production sectors. We took 32 cent off the price of diesel, 27 cent off petrol and 7.4% off marked gas oil. We also deferred the carbon tax increases until 14 October.  These are substantial measures. We have now taken a decision to extend those and to reduce them on a graduated basis. The cost of that will be about \u20ac255 million, so we are looking now at an intervention, above and beyond what was in the budget, of close to \u20ac1 billion. That is not doing nothing. That is a significant intervention by any yardstick \u2013 probably one of the highest across the European Union. We want to introduce further measures in the forthcoming budget that will alleviate the pressures on families and on workers, particularly in terms of the tax burden on them. We also want to support pensioners, carers and those with disabilities. We want to use our resources in a focused and targeted way in the budget, which we will do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jerry Buttimer  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  It is not enough simply to agree that households are under incredible pressure. Far from intervening to assist people with their energy bills, the Government took away the very thing that was a support to households when it removed energy credits.  Rather than intervening to assist, it intervened and made things worse. It has failed to rein in the energy companies that are turning huge profits. People work very hard and will pay their way, and everybody realises that this has to happen, but they are simply fed up with being constantly ripped off. They ask themselves why everything here is so much more expensive and why this is the case. Why is it that Irish households and families consistently have to pay more for their energy? I am putting the question to the Taoiseach today that more than 1 million households will be asking themselves tomorrow when they face yet another hike in their electricity and gas prices and bills. They will ask what the Government is doing to put a stop to the gallop of the energy companies. What is the Government doing to step in and assist these households as they struggle, as the Taoiseach has acknowledged? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The energy companies were quite quick to put up the prices at the time of the issues in the commodity markets arising from the war between the US and Iran. We will have to see comparable decreases as commodity prices reduce and as this feeds into the Irish market. We have had significant reduction in terms of energy prices but they need to go much further than they have. We have nominally the highest EU electricity prices and about the fifth highest when adjusted for affordability. We have a heavy gas dependency. This is a significant factor in the pricing of our energy. We have grid isolation and small market scales. The fundamental problem we have is an over-reliance on fossil fuels, and on gas as our source, and we need to move more decisively to renewables. Through the warmer home schemes and retrofitting schemes, we are empowering people to deal more effectively on a long-term basis with the costs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  Carmel Cantwell's brother William died in Bessborough mother and baby home. Speaking at a vigil on Sunday she said, \"The land itself holds the truth. These buildings, these fields hold stories and secrets and the remains of our family members\". That truth now lies buried. If planning permission is granted next week, this Government has a big decision to make: do its State apologies mean anything or are they just performance?  Until this point, every time I have raised it with the Taoiseach, the current Minister and the former Minister, they have all said the same thing, which is that an investigation of the site would be too big and too expensive. For one, is anything too big when we are talking about the gravity of 829 disappeared babies? Leaving that aside for the moment, no one is asking the Government to go in tomorrow and excavate the entire site at Bessborough. Before that there would need to be geophysical surveys, test excavations and soil samples. The commission of investigation did not do any of that. It did not properly investigate the site. Even leaving that aside, the first thing the Government has to do is CPO land. This was unanimously agreed by Cork City Council and it is the number one ask of survivors for the State to protect the site and to give survivors breathing space and time to discuss what should happen next, without the looming pressure of diggers rolling into the site.  Another argument the Taoiseach puts forward whenever I raise Bessborough is that he cannot intervene in the planning process. Everyone understands and agrees that in normal circumstances the Government should not intervene but does the Taoiseach think these circumstances are normal? A total of 923 children died at Bessborough between 1922 and 1998 when it finally closed, and 1998 is not that long ago. This is the Taoiseach's constituency and he was on the local authority at that time. Burial records exist for only 64 of these children, meaning 829 children are disappeared, presumed dead, but nobody knows. These are not normal circumstances.  Under the European Convention on Human Rights, ECHR, the State has a legal obligation to protect this site for proper forensic investigation and to deliver truth and justice for survivors. The only way to do that is through compulsorily purchasing the land. What survivors want to know is what this Government is going to do if the planning decision is upheld. Is it going to do nothing? Will it sit back while survivors chain themselves to the gates, or is the Government going to do what it should have done a long time ago, which is the bare minimum of compulsorily purchasing the land? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, the pain felt by survivors and families connected to Bessborough is profound. It is enduring. Neither I nor the rest of the Government has ever minimised that reality. I would argue that the last Government did more on these issues than any previous Government for a long time. It was not just about performance. I think it is unfair of the Deputy to put that insinuation across in the manner that she has, given the profundity and deep sadness of this issue. The most fundamental pursuit for quite a number of years was unhindered access to all birth records. That was the most significant issue over two decades, and various arguments were used around the constitutional this and that. The last Government and the Attorney General advised that there should be no hindrance to access to information. That has happened and it has been very comprehensive. This is not, therefore, some empty gesture or performance, as the Deputy suggested it was. No one has a monopoly on compassion or concern about this issue.  Equally, I would say that the redress scheme - people could argue its merits or demerits - has been a significant one. About 7,000 people have applied to date. My understanding is that up to 6,000-plus have had positive outcomes so far and the rest are being produced. This is along with many other initiatives undertaken by the last Government, and the former Minister, Roderic O\u2019Gorman, in particular as the Minister responsible at the time for that issue.  The legal position and the law as we currently have them, as the Deputy probably knows, prevent further intervention on the site due to the absence of evidence on burial locations. Robust safeguards are in place and the Government remains fully committed to survivor engagement, memorialisation and accountability. We still do not know where the children who died are buried, including at Bessborough. As the Deputy said, the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes examined the Bessborough site extensively, including using cartographic and archival research, site surveys and public appeals for information. The commission concluded that, while it was likely some children were buried on the grounds, it found no physical or documentary evidence locating burial sites.  There have been different calls at different times, and there is not unanimity on this among survivors in terms of how the site should be treated or protected. It is a large site of approximately 60 acres at the moment. It was previously over 200 acres, so it has already been partially developed over the decades. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Excavation without evidence of location at the moment is not lawful nor feasible. I will come back in again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  Can the Taoiseach imagine what it must feel like to not know if your baby, your sibling or your niece or nephew is buried at the site in Bessborough or, potentially, was sold abroad? Like Carmel Cantwell said at the weekend, the truth lies in the grounds. We are talking about some of the worst human rights violations and some of the worst crimes imaginable. We are talking about forced family separation. We are talking about disappeared infants. We are talking about human trafficking. We are then talking about the potential. Can the Taoiseach imagine apartments being built on top of that uninvestigated, potential mass grave of disappeared babies? It is unbelievable.  I asked the Taoiseach if the Government would compulsorily purchase the land, and he stood up and simply did not answer the question. He spoke around the issue for the entire reply, talked about how great the Government's scheme was, which excluded people who spent less than six months in an institution, and talked about the size of the site again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  Is there a site that is too big to warrant----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Taoiseach to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  -----the investigation of the disappearance of over 800 babies? "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Deputies: Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  In my view, the local authority should have purchased the site compulsorily a number of years ago. It chose not to. Governments, by definition, do not just go in and purchase sites compulsorily. There are issues regarding how to how to protect and treat sites, without necessarily having to purchase it compulsorily.  The history is a bit more complex than was articulated by the Deputy. It is much more so. It is not so simple. I will not say any more than that. I will put it this way to the Deputy: even within the context of the laws that have been passed and in terms of the planning application, she has not specified to me how the Government should intervene with An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la. She must know the law, just like everybody else. It is a great thing to say----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  I said the Government should purchase land compulsorily. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Is it not a wonderful thing to say that we should interfere with An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la? Just intervene. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  No, I do not find it a wonderful thing to say. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Please, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Sorry, but it is a very simple thing to say we should intervene in the planning process----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The time is up. I thank the Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----without any consequence, without even a question of----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We now move to Deputy Ivana Bacik. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Government will await the outcome of the planning appeal next week, and then we will see how to respond to that decision by An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  For most children across the country, this is the first week of the summer holidays, an exciting and positive time. For hundreds of families, however, this is the first week of a final countdown they have long been dreading because, as of this week, far too many children with special educational needs are still officially without school places for this coming September. What a disgrace in a republic that claims to value education.  In desperation, many parents have been forced to go public about their children's situations. One such parent is Labour Councillor Alison Field, who is in the Gallery today. On her Instagram account, one will find posts about her work providing support for people in her Dublin community every day. As of last night, one will also see posts about her work in her new role as Deputy Lord Mayor of Dublin city. I congratulate her, and I hope the Taoiseach will join me in congratulating her and, indeed, his own party colleague, the new Lord Mayor of Dublin, Daryl Barron.  There is another running theme to Ali's social media posts. She has had to use her profile to highlight the ongoing failure of the State to provide her son James with a school place. Recently, James received rejections from two more schools. That brings the family's grand total up to 18. James, a vulnerable child, has been rejected 18 times, refused care and refused an education. In Ali's words, he has been on the Department's books since he was five. He is 12 now. The Department of education has had seven years to provide him with a secondary school place and to plan for this. Now, with mere weeks to go, his mother has again had to resort to social media to plead for answers. The family is banking on one last school, hoping for what Ali describes as a miracle.  Families like Ali's should not need a miracle. What they are asking for is something that most children can take for granted. In a wealthy country in the 21st century, an education should be a given, but so many children have been abandoned by the State. I refer to children like six-year-old Kristian Walsh, who is autistic and non-verbal, and for whom this September will mark his third year without a primary school place. His mother says that most of her days are now spent fighting for a basic right that every child should enjoy.  The Minister, Hildegarde Naughton, and the Taoiseach have repeatedly assured parents that every child will have a place. Is that true, though? Parents have heard these promises before. Many have had to become experts in advocacy and public policy because all they are getting are delays, confusion and copy-and-paste refusal letters. Many now say that they have no hope left. What can the Taoiseach say to someone who has lost the hope of providing their child with an education? When he knows there has been a shortage of places and that demand is rising, why are parents and children now entering the summer holidays without any certainty?  Now that schools are closing for the summer, how many children are still without a school place for next year and when is the Government going to treat this as a national emergency? For many parents like Ali and many children like James, this is a personal emergency. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The scale of demand for special education places and our response to it over the past six years have been exceptional. I think that balance and perspective are required here. Thousands of children are being provided for every year and additional places are being found.  The Deputy knows herself that when the portal was opened earlier last year, which was a good thing, the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, received applications from about 7,860 children for special placements.  That was more than twice the number who did so ahead of the current school year. Let us acknowledge that. Of those 7,860, 6,000, or 75%, were already enrolled in a school but were seeking special provision in addition to the placement in a given school.  Every child who requires a special school placement and who has notified the NCSE will have a place in September. That is the target. We have already announced 580 new special classes - 378 at primary level and 202 at post-primary - that will open this September. In addition, there are 60 new inclusive special classes, with the latest tranche of five additional classes announced yesterday by the Minister of State, Michael Moynihan. The number of primary special classes has grown by 99%, from approximately 1,319 to 2,629 today. Post-primary special classes have grown by 115%. That is from 517 to 1,122 over the past five years. The number of special needs assistants, SNAs, has increased by 45%. We will have more than 26,000 SNAs working in schools by the end of the year. There will be almost 22,500 special education teachers in place by year end. Sixteen new special schools have opened in the last number of years. Four more were recently announced in Balbriggan, Citywest, Bray and Monasterevin. Special school enrolments are up by 20%. Over 40% of special schools have benefited from new or upgraded buildings. Clearly, the Minister, Hildegarde Naughton, and the Minister of State, Michael Moynihan, and the Ministers and Ministers of State before them have been very active on the issue. We have more to do.  I fully accept the anxiety, stress and trauma that a family, and parents in particular, can experience when they are finding it extremely difficult to get a school place. We have put in place provisions for the NCSE to be more proactive and act as advocates for children in securing an appropriate and suitable place for the child.  Changes occurred prior to this school year. Some 6,000 additional students who were already in school have sought special accommodation. It is fair to say that the Department has been stretched but has moved at pace to provide the additional places, teachers and SNAs to meet the need that was out there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  We certainly acknowledge that places have been found for many children. Of course that is welcome, but it should not be remarkable or something to boast about. There are still children, parents and families left waiting and left without certainty. I welcome the Taoiseach's commitment - I think he did give a commitment - that every child who needs a school place will have one this year, but parents are losing hope that the Government will fulfil these promises because they have heard this before and there is still no certainty.  After February's debacle, when the NCSE told 200 schools that they would lose SNAs, we thought there might be progress and certainty for special education. We have been here every year. Every year, we have heard from parents that their children, such as Kristian and James, are being left without a place. They and their families are paying a terrible price for this failure. We know that, for every period of time that a child is left without a place, it impacts negatively on their development.  The Government already found hundreds of millions of euro for special education this year. Indeed, it had to bail out the Department of education earlier this year. Parents were told the resources would be there but we still do not know how many children, such as James and Kristian, are left without places. Can the Taoiseach guarantee those places will be available this September? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  There are about 30,000 students now who are supported across special schools and special classes. The Deputy is correct that we allocated an additional \u20ac646 million to education. That is helping in terms of special education provision. Opening the portal early last year led to far more applications than perhaps was anticipated by the Department. The number of applications almost doubled, even though last year we delivered approximately 2,700 new special education places and well over 450 - close to 500 - special classes. This is growing exponentially. The bigger question for all of us in the D\u00e1il and so on is how this evolves over time.  More critical analysis and evaluation is required. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  There are 26,000 SNAs. The number has increased dramatically over the last five to six years. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Taoiseach. Time is up. Deputy Boyd Barrett. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Provision is being provided and resources are being allocated. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  As the Taoiseach knows, Ireland will take over the EU Presidency for six months as of tomorrow and the Taoiseach will host a launch event in Dublin Castle to commence the six months of the Irish EU Presidency. I will be joining a demonstration outside Dublin Castle with anti-war and peace groups, pro-neutrality groups and Palestine solidarity groups, because they and I are concerned that, rather than using the position of the EU Presidency to defend our tradition of neutrality and reflect the views of the majority of Irish people, who want to protect that tradition of neutrality, the Government will cave in to the agenda of Ursula von der Leyen and the European Union to ramp up in an enormous way the militarisation of Europe and the arms industry in Europe, and that it will do this at a time when the European Union is deeply complicit in the horrific genocide Israel is committing against the Palestinian people.  The background to that is a policy document of the EU titled, tellingly, ReArm Europe Plan, which was published in the middle of last year - ReArm Europe. I am sure the Taoiseach is familiar with it, and if he were not that, would be a serious abdication of his responsibilities. It is a document which proposes to dramatically increase arms expenditure in Europe - about double it - from approximately \u20ac400 billion per year to \u20ac800 billion per year. This is money that could be spent on addressing the cost-of-living crisis, the housing crisis, health and education, but Europe is proposing to double arms expenditure. This is at the same time that Europe is exporting about \u20ac800 billion worth of arms and military components to Israel while it commits a genocide against the Palestinian people. My fear is that the Government will use this as a propaganda jamboree to justify what we know it has committed to, which is getting rid of the Irish triple lock, removing obstacles to the deployment of Irish troops where there is no UN mandate, while Europe is pushing for greater militarisation----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  -----greater spending on weapons and arming a genocide in Gaza. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Taoiseach to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  Will the Government stand up for neutrality? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Taoiseach will respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  Will it oppose the EU militarisation agenda and complicity with genocide or will it cave in to that agenda? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Ireland will assume the Presidency of the European Union. The three fundamental pillars of our Presidency will be competitiveness, values and security.  On competitiveness, we are looking for a capital markets union. We will try to advance that agenda to enable Irish small- and medium-sized companies to get access to a far greater degree of venture capital in Europe. We hope we can establish - Commissioner Michael McGrath is pursuing this - the 28th regime or European Inc., which would basically mean that SMEs would be established on a pan-European basis from day one. We want to deepen the Single Market because Irish workers and people have benefited from it. We also want to simplify regulation to enable economic growth across the European Union.  The European Union has been transformative for Ireland since we voted to join in 1972 and joined in 1973. It has been a transformative experience economically for Ireland and, among most populations across Europe, Ireland has enjoyed probably the highest pro-European Union sentiment on a consistent basis over the years.  Many on the left have opposed the European Union and every treaty to do with it. That is their right and entitlement, but Europe is a far broader story than the one the Deputy painted.  Fundamentally, we will be endeavouring to see if we can help the agenda of making Europe more competitive on the industrial front and technology front to create jobs for people and to protect the jobs Irish people already have. Many of our companies export to the European market. We export a lot of food to the European market. We export a lot of medical devices to the European market. We export a lot of pharmaceuticals to the European market. They are real jobs. Real Irish people depend on those jobs and depend on that market. The Deputy ignores all that and he has consistently ignored it in the context of the European agenda.  Let us come to what he claims is rearming and militarisation. What is happening? What happened in the past five years? Can the Deputy recall? Ukraine was invaded, violently, by Russia and without any provocation. It was a total violation of the UN Charter. What has that created across the eastern flank? How does the Deputy think Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland and Estonia feel? They do not have the geographic isolation we have here; we are far removed. They have a far greater existential fear of Russia than the Deputy or I have, even though we should be concerned in terms of technology and cybersecurity as well as subsea cable and gas connector sabotage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-Burke.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Peter-Burke.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peter Burke  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The world has become much more complex but the Deputy ignores that all the time. There are parts of Europe that feel under existential threat. They do not believe the US will be there for them----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----when the time comes and therefore they are----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you. Deputy Boyd Barrett to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----enhancing their military expenditure and defence expenditure. It is because of what happened in terms of Russia's behaviour. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  I spent much of last night conversing with a young man from Ukraine who fled here because he did not want to be conscripted into the disastrous Ukrainian-Russian war and is fearful he is going to be sent back there because Zelenskyy is asking that people of his age now be sent back to fight on a front line where tens of thousands are being slaughtered. That disastrous war was, of course, started by Putin but young men like him do not want to fight in it.  The Taoiseach did not refer to the document I mentioned. It states \"The moment has come for Europe to re-arm. ... [we need] a massive increase in European defence spending ...\" That is what is being urged by Ursula von der Leyen and the EU at the moment, namely, to double arms expenditure from about \u20ac400 billion to \u20ac800 billion at the same time as Europe is exporting about \u20ac800 billion in arms to Israel to commit genocide. We are a neutral country. That is about opposing militarism, war and so on. Is the Taoiseach going to speak up against that? Is he going----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  -----to oppose the militarisation agenda----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Taoiseach to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  -----oppose the shameful complicity with the genocide----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy. The Taoiseach to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  -----and do an about-turn on the question of the triple lock----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Taoiseach to respond now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  -----which is about dismantling our neutrality? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Taoiseach, please. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, we will uphold Irish military neutrality. There is no issue with Irish military neutrality. There has been no attempt to undermine Irish military neutrality by Europe or by anybody else, for that matter, and the Deputy should stop scaremongering in respect of it. We are not joining NATO anytime soon. We are not militarily aligned and we have no intention of joining any military group or bloc. That is Irish military neutrality. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  That is all it is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Sorry? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  No. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  That is all it is for you. As long as we are not in NATO we are neutral. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am sorry but you do not get to define it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  And you do not get to interrupt. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  You do not get to define it. If you had your way you would not have an army at all. You said that to me one day here during question time when I asked you straight out if you believed we should have a military at all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I did not. Check the record. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  A bit of respect, please. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Okay. I am glad you maybe accept we might need some sort of military or defence capability. In any event, there is not unanimity across Europe - there is disagreement on Palestine - but Europe remains the biggest donor to Palestine globally. It is the biggest donor to Palestinians in terms of----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----supporting Palestinians across the board from the PA to the ordinary Palestinians in terms of the vital essential services they require. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Before I move to the Order of Business, I welcome Tina and Killane Shine from Cork who are in the Gallery with Deputy Collins. Everybody I met today was from Cork and you are all very welcome. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jerry Buttimer  We are the best county, a Cheann Comhairle. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"orderofBusiness","bill":null,"showAs":"An tOrd Gn\u00f3 - Order of Business","counts":{"speechCount":67,"speakerCount":24},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler)  I move:  Tuesday's business shall be:  - Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 30 and 31] (back from Committee) (without debate, to moved together and decided by one question and any division claimed to be taken immediately)  - Motion re Thirteenth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately)  - Motion re Restoration of Seller\u2019s Legal Pack for Property Buyers Bill 2021 (without debate)  - Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 2 hours)  - Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 2 hours)  - Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 2 hours)  Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Childcare, selected by Sinn F\u00e9in.  Wednesday's business shall be:  - Statements on Ireland's EU Presidency (not to exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes)  Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Cost of Living, selected by the Independent Technical Group.  Thursday's business shall be:  - Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2026 (Second Stage) (to conclude after the first round, not to exceed 3 hours and 34 minutes and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage)  Thursday evening business shall be the Second Stage of the Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Hare Coursing) Bill 2020, sponsored by Deputy Paul Murphy.  Proposed Arrangements for this week\u2019s business:  In relation to Tuesday\u2019s business, it is proposed that:  1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders:  (a) the time allotted for Government Business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business, and the D\u00e1il may sit later than 10.48 p.m.;  (b) the Order of the D\u00e1il of 23rd June 2026 referring the Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026 to the Select Committee on Transport is hereby discharged and Third Stage of the Bill shall be taken in Committee of the whole D\u00e1il;  (c) private members\u2019 business shall be taken on the conclusion of proceedings of the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026;  (d) Questions to the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration pursuant to Standing Order 47(1) shall not be taken, and shall instead be taken on Wednesday, 1st July, 2026, without any change to the allocation of priority Questions to the Minister and not otherwise affecting the current sequence of Ministers or the rota for priority Questions as ordered by the House; and  (e) topical issues pursuant to Standing Order 39 shall not be taken, and shall instead be taken on Wednesday, 1st July, 2026, and the D\u00e1il shall adjourn on the conclusion of private members\u2019 business;  2. the following arrangements shall apply to the Motions for Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Votes 30 and 31]:  (a) the motions shall be moved and decided together by one question;  (b) the proceedings thereon shall be taken without debate; and  (c) any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately;  3. the proceedings on the Motion re Thirteenth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately;  4. the proceedings on the Motion re Restoration of Seller\u2019s Legal Pack for Property Buyers Bill 2021 shall be taken without debate;  5. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 2 hours by one question, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Climate, Energy and the Environment;  6. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 2 hours by one question, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Transport; and  7. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 2 hours by one question, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Enterprise, Tourism and Employment.   In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:  1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders:  (a) the D\u00e1il may sit later than 9.30 p.m. and shall adjourn on conclusion of Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration;  (b) Leaders Questions and Other Members\u2019 Questions pursuant to Standing Orders 38 and 38A shall not be taken;  (c) there shall be no Questions on Policy or Legislation pursuant to Standing Order 36;  (d) on conclusion of private members business, the sitting shall stand suspended until 5.30 p.m. whereupon business shall resume with Topical Issues pursuant to Standing Order 39;  (e) Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration shall be taken for 96.5 minutes on the conclusion of Statements on Ireland\u2019s EU Presidency; and  (f) there shall be no weekly division time pursuant to Standing Order 34; and  2. the Statements on Ireland's EU Presidency shall not exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply:  (a) the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the sequence contained in the table immediately below (to be read across);  (b) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and  (c) members may share time.          Gov      SF      SD      Gov      SF       Mins    25    15    10    10    3           Lab      Gov      SF      IPTG      Gov       Mins    10    10    3    9    10           SF      ITG      Gov      SF      OM       Mins    3    9    10    3    5                           Total: 2 hours 15 mins       In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:  1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. with consequential effect on the commencement time for Second Stage of the Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Hare Coursing) Bill 2020, and on the time for the adjournment of the D\u00e1il; and  2. the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at the end of the first speaking round and the following arrangements shall apply:  (a) the first-round speeches, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the table below (to be read across);  (b) on conclusion of the first speaking round, or where speeches conclude before the 3 hours and 24 minutes have elapsed and no other member is offering, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion; Provided that any division claimed on the Second Stage proceedings shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage; and  (c) members may share time.          Gov      SF      SD      Gov      SF       Mins    20    20    20    12    4           Lab      Gov      SF      IPTG      Gov       Mins    20    12    4    20    12           SF      ITG      Gov      SF      OM       Mins    4    20    12    4    20                           Total: 3 hours 24 mins      "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Are the proposed arrangements for the week's business agreed to? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  They are not agreed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I call Deputy Doherty. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  The Government, in response to the outrage in relation to the cost of excise on petrol and diesel has decided to kick the can down the road.  In doing that, it has made the decision that before the end of the year, it will increase the price of diesel by 34 cent. Everybody knows what they have been paying at the pumps. This will push the price of diesel well above \u20ac2. It is simply unacceptable at a time when so many people are feeling the pinch. This cannot go ahead. I ask that there is a full debate in relation to this and that Government sees sense and recognises the pressures people are under at the pumps at this point. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  In today's Irish Independent we read of the devastating number of women, 1,872, who fled abuse and tried to get a refuse space but could not. The Istanbul Convention states that we should have 500 refuge spaces but we only have 172. Safe Ireland's report outlines that we do not have enough to support women who are fleeing. When a woman has made up her mind to flee abuse, it is the most dangerous time. We need to do more. We need an urgent debate in this House about this topic. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  We have an epidemic of male violence against women in this country. Nearly 1,900 women were turned away from domestic violence refuges in the final six months of last year. The Government is failing these women. We need the Minister to come in and take questions on this issue this week. Women fleeing domestic violence need support and they need safe refuge. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Two Bills are being guillotined this evening, the airport cap Bill and the liquefied natural gas, LNG, Bill, each of which will have major impacts on our climate targets. Not only are they being guillotined, but Committee Stage and Report Stage of each are being run together so the two Bills can be rushed through this House. There are 58 detailed amendments across the two Bills that will not get proper consideration because of this process. I ask the Chief Whip to please withdraw the use of the guillotine and allow these two Bills to get the consideration they deserve. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  We need time for a debate on the mandatory retirement age for retained firefighters, who are currently required to retire at 62 despite meeting the same training and medical fitness standards as full-time firefighters. Given that full-time firefighters and other emergency services personnel can now serve until 65, there is a strong case for reviewing this anomaly and bringing the retirement age for retained firefighters into line with their full-time colleagues. I call on the Minister to come before the D\u00e1il to discuss this issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Chief Whip to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Butler  I have noted all the comments made. We have a really busy schedule to get through this week. We have a lot of legislation, so the Order of Business stands. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Are the proposed arrangements agreed to? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputies  Not agreed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Lou McDonald  Almost 1,900 women were turned away from domestic violence services in the last six months of last year because there was simply nowhere safe for them to go. Almost 1,900 women found the courage to escape abuse only to be told that there was no safe refuge, no home, and no place of safety for them or for their children. SAFE Ireland now says that the housing crisis is the single biggest barrier preventing women and children from escaping abuse. That is an extraordinary indictment of the Taoiseach's Government. What positive action will the Taoiseach now take to guarantee women fleeing domestic violence immediate access to refuge and safe accommodation? How will the Taoiseach ensure that no woman seeking safely is ever again turned away because the State has failed to provide for her and her children? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Government is very conscious of this issue. We are accelerating the delivery of safe accommodation and significantly strengthening capacity nationwide. There are currently about 241 safe accommodation places, with 181 domestic violence refuge units and 60 safe home units. At the end of the year, it is envisaged that there will be 193 domestic violence refuge units completed and 94 safe homes, bringing total safe accommodation to 287. There is a further 50 refuge units under construction. We have allocated resources. It is now an issue of the timelines to getting these buildings constructed and completed. We will continue with this over the next number of months and years. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Tomorrow, in the Taoiseach's home city of Cork, every single solicitor is removing themselves from the legal aid scheme. Imagine that. It is not just Cork. It is Dublin and all over the country. Thousands of cases have had to be adjourned, undoubtedly leaving so many victims of crime awaiting justice. This flat fee proposal that has been brought in is causing chaos. Solicitors have rightfully said that there has been a level of consultation. The analysis which the Department released is deeply flawed and that will be discussed in the justice committee shortly. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"We now need a more mature approach to this fundamental principle of legal representation and the cost of it. We cannot continue with this chaos that we have seen over the past week."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Again, I think that should not happen tomorrow. I do not believe people should withdraw their services and I do not think it is the correct or appropriate action. Department officials have been engaging sensitively with the relevant stakeholders and the Law Society. That includes legal professionals and their representative bodies on the proposed changes. That discussion has been ongoing for quite some time. There is no reduction in resources. If anything, the resources have increased significantly. Discussions are ongoing within the Department and so forth. Again, there is a need for reform. I am sure the Deputy would accept that. That should not affect the ability of legal professionals to engage in criminal legal aid work. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  In 2019, I started working with the INTO to address the issue of the impact of early pregnancy loss and fertility challenges on their women members who told me about their experience of having to come into work after losing a pregnancy before 22 weeks or after going through rounds of IVF and not being able to take time off work. After hearing their stories, I drafted a Bill to provide for 20 days paid leave for early pregnancy loss, up to ten days of leave for reproductive healthcare - leave when it matters most. Our Bill passed all Stages in the Seanad. It was delayed by the Government in the D\u00e1il, pending a report from UCC. Only now is our Bill going to an Oireachtas committee. At the weekend, the Government announced it will move on proposal for reproductive health leave but it will only be providing five days for women suffering the loss of a pregnancy early in term. The Taoiseach delayed further debate on the Labour Party Bill on the basis that the report from UCC would provide important information in drafting amendments. We want to see this Bill become law. The many women and couples who contacted me about this want to see reproductive health leave brought into effect. Will the Taoiseach say when that will be? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First, the Government in good faith, in terms of the Deputy's legislation, proposed a timed amendment to do further work. The Minister, Deputy Burke, and his officials have been developing a policy to provide pregnancy loss leave to women in the workplace, particularly women who have suffered a pregnancy loss before 23 weeks. The Minister met with the Oireachtas cross-party group on pregnancy loss in January. He will have heads of a Bill before the summer recess. Obviously, that will have to go to pre-legislative scrutiny in the Oireachtas. The draft heads of Bill are more or less ready. They were submitted to the Attorney General's office. He continues to work with the officials and across government on these proposals. He hopes to bring them to the Government before the summer recess. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  The waiting times for driving tests in Laois for a lot of applicants are not improving. A local woman sought a driving test back on 21 May. She had to seek an invitation. She was told that it would take ten weeks to get onto the waiting list, which would be the end of July. That has now been extended to the end of August, which is 14 weeks. She applied for the waiting time. According to the RSA website this morning, there is another 11.5 weeks on average to wait. That brings it to a total of 25 weeks, if the two periods are counted. The two stages from requesting a test to getting a test is misleading. I am asking the Taoiseach to do two things. This long wait is creating a difficulty, particularly for workers in rural areas like Rathdowney, Clonaslee, Vicarstown, The Swan, Ballinakill, Borris-in-Ossory and all those areas. It also means higher insurance costs. I am asking the Taoiseach, along with the Minister for Transport, to do something about these waiting times, to shorten them and to scrap the two-stage process. It is a misleading process. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I will talk to the Minister for Transport and the Road Safety Authority in respect of this. I cannot operationally run the Road Safety Authority. There had been some progress in terms of reducing----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  It is a misleading process. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  ----- the timelines. I will talk to the Minister and ask him to engage with the Road Safety Authority to continue to work on getting waiting times for driving tests down. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  At present, there are 14,621 garda\u00ed.  There are 621 in training at the moment. The problem is that 180 are resigning outside of retirements. Why does the Taoiseach think this is a problem? It is recurring. We have that amount in training but 180 are resigning every year. That trend has been there over the last two years. Why does the Taoiseach think that is? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Sorry, about 14,500? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  There will always be people who will leave a job or occupation. I think there would have to be a survey done of the 189 specifically to ascertain why they decided to leave An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. The good news is we are oversubscribed in terms of applications and there are very healthy numbers going into Templemore on a regular basis now to qualify to become a member of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. Those coming out of Templemore are then being allocated in fairly sizable numbers. It began with Dublin two years ago. Cork secured a good few, and also Limerick and across the country. Over time, I think there will be a significant increase because of the resources we put behind recruitment to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. Equally, on retention, we increased the retirement age significantly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Young garda\u00ed----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  That is a matter that the Garda should evaluate and do a survey to see whether there are underlying reasons. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  I raise again the urgent need for improved services for children with additional needs in Cavan and Monaghan. Specifically, I wish to refer today to the need to provide after-school services, including summer camps and Saturday clubs, in County Cavan for children with additional needs.  Enable Ireland is the children\u2019s disability network team, CDNT, in County Cavan. Due to staff shortages, it has been under extreme pressure to deliver the services it wants to provide for children with disabilities. I understand from parents that there is a proposal from Cavan CDNT with the HSE or the Department to establish after-school services in County Cavan. Parents also believe that there is the relevant expertise and capacity locally to provide these essential services. This proposal must be progressed and approved without further delay. Parents with children attending such a service in County Monaghan speak in glowing terms of the importance and value of the supports provided in that centre for the progressive development of their children. These supports are vital over the summer months and at other times for the overall development of children with autism and complex needs. That includes their education, communication and daily living skills. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank Deputy Smith for raising this matter. I want to acknowledge his strong commitment to ensuring that children and their families in Cavan who need early intervention and therapy services can access that support in a timely way. My understanding is that there is no after-school school support provided by Cavan CDNT, but Enable Ireland apparently advises that it is planning on putting in an application to provide after-school and respite. I need to get underneath the bonnet of that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  Enable Ireland is the CDNT. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  No, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  In any event, it says here that it is planning to put in an application. I will follow up with the Minister and see if we can get to the bottom of that in terms of getting it progressed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy  I want to raise a query on behalf of a constituent about sarcoidosis, a disease that affects the lungs, heart and nervous system. We have one of the highest rates of it in the world in Ireland, even higher than cystic fibrosis, but it is not very well known. It is not on the long-term illness list. Not everybody suffers from it long term, but some do. There are extremely high costs associated with it for those who will have it for the rest of their lives. I would ask that the system and the long-term illness specification be looked at and that it be considered that those who suffer in the long term benefit from the long-term illness scheme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The long-term illness scheme is under review at the moment. It has not been added to for a long time because other provision has overtaken the practice of having the long-term illness scheme. The condition that the Deputy raised has very severe and profound impacts on patients. We have taken a variety of other measures to alleviate the cost of medication, for example, long-term medication, for people and so forth. I will alert the Minister for Health that the Deputy has raised the issue and ask her to engage with him on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  I have been trying to find out for some time the number of members of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na who have criminal convictions. I cannot get anywhere with the Minister or the Garda Commissioner. The latest response I got was that this information was not held centrally and would require a disproportionate amount of time and resources to address. Does the Taoiseach think that is acceptable? I think it is absolutely shocking. The public expects garda\u00ed to undergo rigorous vetting. Will the Taoiseach tell me if the law currently provides sufficient powers to dismiss Garda members convicted of criminal offences? If not, will the Government introduce legislation to address this gap? People will be quite shocked to hear that and to hear that the information is not available to us. That is critical information. Women who are going in to be helped by a member of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na need to be sure that that Garda member is not already convicted of a crime of domestic violence themselves. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I did not get the specific question asked, but I agree that there should be a centralised system whereby if a garda is convicted of a criminal offence, that should be collated, recorded and collected by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na just as the Defence Forces are now devising a system to do that in respect of Defence Forces members who may have committed a criminal offence. That level of data and knowledge is required centrally and should be known centrally from a proper management perspective. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  I want to share the story of the scrambler scourge that is plaguing parts of Dublin city. In particular, I share the story of Jayden, a child with additional needs who was on the way to the shop at the Five Lamps to buy bread and was knocked down by a scrambler. Not only was the incident horrible and there was a serious injury, but it was also a hit and run. However, the scrambler came back as part of a group of scramblers, and they circled the family as they were tending to Jayden on the ground. It is horrible stuff, and it shows the sheer sense of lawlessness and the failure to address the scrambler scourge on the ground. When Grace's Law was passed, it was a step forward, but without that legislation being enforced and policed on the ground, it does not matter to these lads. These lads are running amok terrorising parts of Dublin. Deputy McAuliffe spoke of Finglas, the north inner city and Cabra. You are not seeing it in Foxrock. This needs to be policed. Will the Taoiseach support our call for a dedicated policing unit to address the scrambler scourge before we see more people----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, I appreciate the Deputy raising this issue. That incident was shocking, but there are too many shocking incidents in relation to scramblers. I know that Deputy McAuliffe has been working with the Deputy and others to deal with this issue. It does need enforcement. About 1,000 scramblers have been seized over the past number of years, but we need a full-on focus on this. The law is now there. It needs enforcement on a continuous basis, whether through a unit or a proper system operated by the Garda.  This is absolutely unacceptable. These are a major threat to life in Dublin in particular. It is rampant in certain areas and needs to be targeted and dealt with. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  I hope the Taoiseach will join me in condemning the awful arson attack on the Muslim prayer hall on Talbot Street on Monday night. I will not comment on the individual circumstances because I know a man has been detained, but representatives of the Muslim community have said that this followed weeks of scaremongering and anti-Muslim targeting of the people in that prayer hall. We know that there are elements that are really whipping up fear over people from Muslim backgrounds, immigrants and so on. As Irish people have suffered racism for generations, it is important that we stand up and oppose any kind of targeting of people because of their religion, ethnic background or race. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, I understand that a person has been arrested but I cannot comment, as I do not want to prejudice the outcome of this. We just need to be careful that we do not draw conclusions that might be the wrong conclusions in respect of this specific case. There is a zero-tolerance approach to racism generally, but we have to wait and see what emerges here first before drawing the kinds of implied conclusions that the Deputy is suggesting in respect of this specific incident. We have to await the outcome of the investigation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  Today, I raise the issue of personal security on greenways. We have been strong in Ireland about investing in our greenways. We have seen huge benefits and increasing use around Leixlip and Maynooth. There is also a greenway in Sallins and Kildare. I know that in Dungarvan and the rest of the country, greenways have been successful. At the same time, though, we need to make sure that they are safe for vulnerable users like women and children. They are people we should not have to be thinking about in these situations, but all too often, they feel at risk. We can put in place things like CCTV and regular entry and exit points. This is a national security framework for greenways that has not been thought of in this way. It is something we really have to consider in their design. There should be public lighting where possible. We should not necessarily have to be focusing on these issues, but at the same time there are real concerns for people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I think there has been huge expansion of greenways and huge investment by Government. It is an area I am particularly interested in myself. I think it has been transformative over the last five years. The level of investment that has taken place across the length and breadth of the country has created greater socialisation, which enhances security as well. In terms of the initial design, safety and security dimensions should be built in when greenways are being designed by the National Transport Authority, NTA, or Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII. That should be an automatic part of the designing of greenways, walkways and so forth. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Cahill  I welcome the publication today of the draft national planning statement on rural and Gaeltacht housing, which represents the most significant reform of rural housing policy in over 20 years. As a rural TD for Kerry, I know at first hand the frustration, inconsistency and uncertainty that many families have faced when trying to build a home where they were born and raised. I was glad to engage consistently with the Taoiseach and our Fianna F\u00e1il colleagues, the Ministers, Deputies Browne and Calleary, throughout this landmark policy, ensuring that the voices of rural communities like those in Kerry were heard at every stage. I have repeatedly raised the issue of rural depopulation in this House and called for the establishment of a dedicated rural depopulation task force. Too many of our young people have felt they had no option but to leave because they could not secure planning permission in their own communities. Today, I am delighted to be in a position where I can say I have helped positively influence these landmark reforms.  Will the Taoiseach confirm the timeline for the completion of the environmental assessment and public consultation, and reassure rural families that the final national planning statement will be in place before the end of this year? How quickly does he envisage the new draft planning statement being incorporated into county development plans? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank Deputy Cahill for raising this issue. It is fair to say that he has been a persistent advocate and strong voice for rural Ireland in respect of this issue, particularly advocating for young couples and young people generally to be in a position to build houses in their localities, very often on their land. This will be of significance in helping to sustain rural communities across the western and south-western seaboards, particularly in Kerry, the area the Deputy represents. There are, of course, the Chorca Dhuibhne Gaeltacht and others, which are of significance to him. I think that the Gaeltacht provisions will facilitate one-off housing in those areas, particularly in villages and towns across south Kerry and the Kerry area more generally. This will be significant.  On the timeline, I hope that it will not take too long after the screening. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  This Friday is the closing date for objections to the disgraceful plan to demolish the historic old Cork prison site and to build two new prisons in the middle of a residential area in The Glen and surrounding areas. Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael are determined to strip away our history and destroy working class communities. They are using questionable legislation - a loophole - that means objections must be sent to Longford by post. I posted my objection last Friday and it still has not arrived. It took nearly a week for my objection on environmental grounds to arrive and by the time it had arrived, the closing date had passed.  Will the Taoiseach give a commitment to instruct the Irish Prison Service, IPS, so that any objection that arrives after the closing date of 3 July will be accepted? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  The people of The Glen have enough with one prison. They do not deserve to have three prisons on the northside of Cork city. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Deputy's time is up. I call the Taoiseach to respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank Deputy Gould for raising the issue. I am not clear as to why, if he posted it last Friday, it did not get there quicker, but in any event, there is a huge challenge with overcrowding at the moment. Colleagues in the Deputy's party have been raising the overcrowding issue with the Minister. The Minister is under huge pressure in terms of capacity constraints in our prisons and the resulting challenge faced by those who work in our prisons and so forth. He is endeavouring to do the very best he can in terms of providing additional spaces as quickly as he can. It is arising out of that pressure that the use is being made of that site. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  Why not a greenfield site? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  No, it does not work like that, Deputy. I thank the Taoiseach. His time is up. I call Deputy Graves. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Thomas Gould  The Taoiseach knows The Glen well. It is in the middle of the community. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Deputy knows that the rules are the rules. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ann Graves  Ireland's largest summer festival is on this weekend in Newbridge House and Farm in Donabate. Flavours of Fingal is in its 14th year and has been very successful. Between 65,000 and 75,000 people attend over the two days. Part of its success has been down to shuttle buses that bring people to and fro. This year, however, due to cost cutting by Fingal County Council, there is to be no service, which is a real blow to businesses, vendors, etc. Thousands of extra cars on the road mean extra pollution and add to the existing traffic chaos. It clearly questions Fingal's commitment to sustainability and tackling climate change. It makes no sense whatever to have people travelling by car and paying \u20ac40 for parking----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Deputy. The Taoiseach will respond. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, I wish that everyone attending the festival enjoys it. Sixty-five thousand is a huge number. It is obviously a very successful festival. I am not familiar with the council's arrangements but the implication was that the council was providing the transport. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ann Graves  It was subsidised. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Yes. That is kind of unusual, but in any event that is what happened. Maybe the council was hoping to get it off the ground and that it would then sustain itself. I am not familiar with the background as to why the council pulled back on that aspect of it but I will talk to people to see what can be done there. Normally, Governments do not support transport to festivals. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ann Graves  I was hoping the Minister could help. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I will talk to the Minister and see what can be done. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I am sure that the Taoiseach will join me in welcoming the Mayfield chit chat group, which is celebrating its second birthday in Leinster House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Its members have been very quiet. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  My ladies from Mayfield. As the Taoiseach is aware, 54% of submissions made to the European Commission from all member states regarding the EU whistleblower directive came from Ireland. That is a huge and unusual amount. We had 15 whistleblowers in Leinster House last week. A number of them outlined that they were still not happy with whistleblower law in this country. They made submissions on that to the Taoiseach.  What training is now given to the Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na? Have garda\u00ed received training? The previous Minister was not able to explain that to me in terms of the Protected Disclosures Act and the criminal offence of penalising and retaliating. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  In the aftermath of the Charleton inquiry, for example, there were significant awareness levels in relation to whistleblowing more generally. I will raise the issue with the Minister. Operationally, the Garda Commissioner and, indeed, all workplaces have responsibility for ensuring that any whistleblower who provides a disclosure in accordance with the Act is not penalised. There are very clear strictures in that regard both in the public service and in the private sector. We have fairly robust legislation in place on protected disclosures. It is efficient. That is shown by the fact that so many have engaged with the European issue. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"An tOrd Gn\u00f3 - Order of Business"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Estimates for Public Services 2026","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I move the following Supplementary Estimates:   Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Supplementary Estimate)   That a supplementary sum not exceeding \u20ac100,000,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 2026, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, including certain services administered by that Office and for payment of certain grants and subsidies and for the payment of certain grants under cash-limited schemes.   Vote 31 \u2014 Transport (Supplementary Estimate)   That a supplementary sum not exceeding \u20ac120,000,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 2026, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Transport, including certain services administered by that Office, for payment of certain grants and certain other services. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Votes put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Estimates for Public Services 2026"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Thirteenth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection: Motion","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann, pursuant to Standing Order 33, and with effect from 1st July, 2026, approves the Thirteenth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection, copies of which were laid before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 26th June, 2026. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Thirteenth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection: Motion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2021\/150","event":{"uri":null,"houseCode":null,"stage":null,"isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Seller's Legal Pack for Property Buyers Bill 2021: Restoration to Order Paper (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Seller's Legal Pack for Property Buyers Bill 2021: Restoration to Order Paper","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I move:  That, pursuant to Standing Order 205, the Seller's Legal Pack for Property Buyers Bill 2021, which lapsed on the dissolution of the 33rd D\u00e1il, shall be restored at Order for Committee Stage and notice shall be published pursuant to Standing Order 37, and Deputy Barry Heneghan be designated the member in charge of the Bill. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Seller's Legal Pack for Property Buyers Bill 2021: Restoration to Order Paper"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna - Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Cabinet Committees","counts":{"speechCount":21,"speakerCount":12},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_11","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_12.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 20, inclusive, together.  The Cabinet committee on health last met on 30 April 2026 and is due to meet again shortly. The Cabinet committee oversees implementation of programme for Government commitments in relation to health, receives detailed reports on identified policy areas and considers health reforms, including Sl\u00e1intecare, the reform of public health and health system preparedness for future health threats. It also receives reports in relation to programme for Government commitments in the areas of mental health and drugs policy. In addition to me, it is attended by the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Finance, the Minister for public expenditure, and the Minister for Health.  Sl\u00e1intecare 2025+, our latest Sl\u00e1intecare strategy, published in May 2025, aims to forge the way towards accessible, affordable, high-quality healthcare for the people of Ireland when they need it and where they need it. For the fourth year in a row, Ireland has the highest self-perceived health status in the EU, with 80.4% of males and 79.9% of females rating their health as good or very good. Our life expectancy is continuing to increase and is above international averages. Life expectancy in Ireland has increased by two years for males and one year for females since 2015. We are treating more people, with better outcomes than ever before. We continue to reduce mortality rates from cancer, circulatory system diseases and respiratory system diseases, and report positive trends in preventative health. Our overall mortality rate has fallen by 16.1% since 2015. The Government will continue to invest and reform, changing the way health services are delivered this year and into the future.  The Waiting Time Action Plan 2026, published on 30 January, represents the Government's continued commitment to improving access to hospital care. Since the commencement of the multi-annual action plan approach, significant progress has been made in reducing the length of time hospital patients are waiting.  The new regional structures within the HSE have been established, with six new health regions and 20 integrated healthcare areas, IHAs. Health and social care services are planned and delivered around the specific needs of local populations, leading to better co-ordination of care and access to services.  The public-only consultant contract, POCC, is central to the transition towards a more consultant-led public health service and represents a significant structural reform in the delivery of public hospital services. The POCC was introduced to strengthen clinical decision-making capacity within the public system and to improve patient access to timely care. It also aims to ensure access to treatment is based on medical need, not ability to pay, in line with the Sl\u00e1intecare vision.  I will read the rest of the reply into the record. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  One of the biggest health issues that arose in this country related to Children's Health Ireland, CHI, scoliosis and child surgery. Now we find that four out of the eight groups have withdrawn from the scoping exercise that was to draw up the terms of reference for the inquiry.  It includes the spina bifida and hydrocephalus paediatric advocacy group and many others. Another group has also reportedly left but not yet publicly. The reason for this is 12 unpublished reports to do with CHI since 2017, including the Dixon report. The groups are afraid that the issues in these reports will not be investigated by the inquiry. Parents are being asked to participate in these groups but they are not being given all of the information in order to allow them to participate. How will the inquiry function when half of the groups involved are having nothing to do with it? When will they get the information they are asking for? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Daly  Once again I want to ask about Roscommon University Hospital and the promised neurorehabilitation unit. It was promised in 2015 with an attached budget of \u20ac8 million. It was twice removed from the HSE's capital plan without any discussion and twice put back on after lobbying by me and my office. Now there is a real lack of urgency about providing those places. Neurorehabilitation looks after acquired brain injuries, stroke, traumatic Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, motor neurone disease, spinal injuries and a host of other things. There is a dearth of beds in the HSE west and north-west region and this is recognised. It is something that is needed and desired and has been promised with a budget but there seems to be lack of urgency by HSE to progress this unit. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Cahill  I want to raise again the chronic shortage of respite for children with profound disabilities in County Kerry. Families are waiting seven or eight months for one or two nights' break and they are at breaking point. The same applies with regard to adults with profound disabilities in Kerry. The issue of respite for these individuals and their families must be of the very highest priority. There is a wonderful centre at St. Mary's of the Angels in Beaufort that should be developed into a centre of excellence for respite. There is also the excellent St. Francis Special School along with many services located there. I wish to avail of this opportunity to invite the Taoiseach to visit the centre, which is just outside Killarney. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan  I want to raise with the Taoiseach once again the issue of rare diseases. It is something on which we have made considerable progress in recent months. We had the very effective campaign run by Senator Costello and others on the reimbursement of givinostat. On foot of this, the Minister has also ordered an end-to-end review on drug reimbursement as a whole. These are very much welcome. In relation to comments made by a member of the NCPE over a week ago on RT\u00c9 radio, does the Taoiseach think is appropriate that a member of the NCPE was on the airwaves disagreeing with the Minister's direction, insofar as he admitted he was against an early access scheme? Is there an update on the next drugs group meeting? Ordinarily it is on the second Tuesday of every month. Is there any possibility of bringing the meeting forward? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  There is still no PET scanner operating in the public system in Galway or across the wider western region. We are being told it will be at least 2033 before a PET scanner will be provided for University Hospital Galway. This is completely unacceptable because this imaging technology is vital for monitoring cancer patients for cancer diagnosis. Patients are being forced to travel long distances to access these scans. They are often referred to private operators at significant cost to the State. They cost millions of euro each year. Patients in the west should not have to travel for essential diagnostic services that are available on-site in other major hospitals. We should have equal access to care across the country. We need a PET scanner, and we need the promised new cancer centre at UHG as well as other infrastructural improvements. Will the Taoiseach intervene to expedite the delivery of this critical infrastructure and equipment for the west to ensure there is equality of care for cancer patients across the State? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  Today nurses and midwives are protesting at University Maternity Hospital Limerick. The HSE pay and numbers strategy cut approximately 30 to 35 front-line nursing and midwifery posts, imposing new staff ceilings, recruitment limits and pay spend caps. Many areas of the hospital are running rosters at 50% below safe levels. The neonatal unit is beyond safe capacity while awaiting HSE approval for service expansion. The labour ward has a daily deficit of midwives. This has been raised repeatedly with management. A HIQA review found the situation to be unsustainable. The HSE must uphold the agreement on staffing from 2015. The neonatal unit expansion must be funded. Safe staffing is needed and the hospital needs to be protected from the HSE pay and numbers strategy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Endometriosis impacts more than 300,000 women in Ireland, with 30,000 of them being very complex cases. This is a condition that is absolutely crippling for any woman who has it. There have been efforts by the Government to bring in a new framework to deal with endometriosis but access is still very difficult. A treatment abroad scheme was set up but a number of countries are not included in it, namely, Greece, Romania, the UK and France. There were plans to look into expanding it to these countries. I also want to raise the fact that in many instances women have to fund this treatment upfront. This would exclude an awful lot of women from accessing the treatment abroad scheme for endometriosis because it is a considerable amount of money. Will the Taoiseach and the Minister look into this? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peter 'Chap' Cleere  For people living with Friedreich's ataxia time is something they simply do not have. Every delay means more mobility lost, more speech lost and more independence taken away. Families such as Emily Felix and her family in Kilkenny, Ois\u00edn Pollard and his family in Carlow and many others have campaigned with huge dignity and courage for access to Skyclarys, the first treatment approved for this condition but unfortunately they continue to face delay and uncertainty while the disease continues to progress. Will the Taoiseach update the House on what the Government's position is on reimbursing Skyclarys? What message does he have for the young people and families who feel they are being asked to wait while an irreversible disease takes more and more from them every day? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  In the past there was a system of phased dispensing that was paid for by the State. It evolved into patients getting blister packs. In disadvantaged areas and areas of low income many people who had blister packs had the cost covered by the Government. The Government recently brought in changes to the way this is to be paid for. It did this without discussing it with pharmacists on the ground and there was no consultation with doctors or patients. Now there are no payments for phased dispensing or blister packs for those receiving one on a weekly basis. A lot of home help providers do not deal with medication unless it is in a blister pack. All of this adds to the massive increase in the cost of living that families are enduring at the moment. It means people coming into the system will pay between \u20ac20 and \u20ac30 extra on a monthly basis for this. Will the Taoiseach delay the process that is costing so much money? Will he ensure the process is reviewed? Will he listen to doctors, pharmacists and patients on the ground? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  The Taoiseach was in Mayo recently and I hope he enjoyed his trip. There are major issues with the hospital, however. Recently a young man was waiting three days for emergency surgery following breaking his leg. This was a result of a lack of staff. The theatre was ready, as was the consultant. Everything was ready but the nursing staff to facilitate the surgery. This is causing major difficulty. It is happening as a result of an over-reliance on agency staff. It is very important that we prioritise recruitment in the HSE for staff and pay them the wages they deserve. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank all Deputies for raising the various issues they have raised. Deputy Coppinger raised the issue of the Children's Health Ireland inquiry. This is a scoping inquiry in the first instance, essentially to scope out the terms of reference and what will be covered by an inquiry, and to look at the statutory format the inquiry will take. I would encourage all groups to participate and engage with Remy Farrell.  In terms of the issues raised concerning unpublished reports, it would be my assessment that any statutory inquiry would get any report it would need. Given the powers that would be given to a statutory inquiry, it would obviously have the power to procure documents in the possession of CHI. In the context of this scoping inquiry, the independent facilitator, Remy Farrell, has written to all involved. He wrote to the Minister for Health last week requesting an extension to conduct his scoping exercise and, in particular, to attempt to further re-engage with stakeholders. The Minister has granted this request until 18 August.  I understand that the facilitator will be engaging with the advocacy groups over the coming days regarding this extension of time and seeking to re-engage with them. He has also been engaging with CHI in respect of those unpublished reports or any particular material that might be in those reports. It is very important that engagement would continue to enable us to get to a position where the Government can have a decision presented to it to establish a statutory inquiry. Otherwise, it could get delayed unnecessarily, in my view. Having had a lot of experience of establishing various inquiries, I urge everyone to engage with the facilitator.  Deputy Martin Daly raised, not for the first time, the issue of the promised rehab unit in Roscommon University Hospital and the lack of urgency attending to it. I will talk to the Minister again and to HSE estates to see if we can progress this, and I will come back to the Deputy. One of the values of Roscommon University Hospital has been the degree to which it can provide a range of services outside of the acute tertiary centres. That makes life far easier for people in the region to access these services. Rehab is so important, particularly for neurological issues or accidents and so on. It can do an awful lot in enabling a person to get back into participating in society and work, depending on the circumstances governing an individual who requires access to a rehab unit of that kind.  Deputy Cahill spoke about the chronic shortage of respite, which is more of a national issue but is an issue in Kerry. We have placed this very high on the agenda of the Cabinet subcommittee on disability. There has been good development of late between the Minister for housing and the Minister for disability, who have come together. The Minister for housing has undertaken to build housing for people with disabilities. This is so we will not be dependent on waiting for the HSE but can get on and instruct every local authority to build a quota of units and to reserve a quota of any new builds in local authority housing to be made available for people generally with disabilities and particularly for those adults with disabilities. Respite is perhaps a separate issue to some degree although we believe housing can have a role there, too, with provisions. I will take the Deputy up on the offer to visit St. Mary of the Angels. I would be interested in doing that. I do think there is an issue with how we are progressing what is called decongregation. We are trying to get new places and allocate resources for new respite and residential places, yet a lot of resources have gone to decongregation, which takes resources from new places. I think there needs to be a more balanced approach about that, particularly where people are satisfied with the level and quality of care. I made this point to the HSE already at the Cabinet subcommittee, and we are working on that issue.  Deputy P\u00e1draig O\u2019Sullivan spoke about rare diseases. Generally speaking, I am not comfortable with people disagreeing with the Minister in respect of decisions that ultimately get taken in respect of an end-to-end review. Personally, I think it was long required and not before its time. We do need a more fundamental look at rare diseases generally, because more and more companies are producing orphan drugs, as they were once called, to meet the needs of rare diseases. That will create challenges for funding for for health services - there is no question about that - but we need to look at this issue in its entirety in terms of how we provide for rare diseases in future.  Much of this is positive. There was a time when companies were not producing drugs for rare diseases. They were going for the blockbuster drugs. Now that they are producing drugs for rare diseases, it is positive for the patients and cohorts involved. It is giving them hope that there is some prospect of moderating the disease or even ultimately getting to a cure. It is only when you are on a journey of medical discovery that you can get medicines that ultimately can achieve significant and transformative results. On the next drugs meeting, it is due in July, but I know the Minister was trying to bring it forward a bit, in particular in consideration of key drugs such as Skyclarys and so forth.  I will raise with the Minister the issue Deputy O\u2019Hara brought up in respect of a PET scanner for University Hospital Galway. I do not have the specifics behind that. A PET scanner is about more than just a machine, of course. It is about the entire team needed to support that machine. That is a critical issue there. These are substantial investments in people, technology and so on. I will get the background to this issue and see where we are in respect of access to it in terms of University Hospital Galway.  Deputy Sheehan raised nurses and midwives and the particular issue in University Maternity Hospital Limerick and the neonatal unit there as well. Again, we have been through a period of significant workforce growth in the health service, with the addition of about 30,257 staff from January 2020 to the end of May 2026. That is about a 30% increase in the number of staff. It includes over 11,000 extra nurses and midwives, which is an increase of over 32%. There are over 5,100 more health and social care professionals, which is an increase of over 40%. Over 4,400 doctors and dentists have been added, which is an increase of over 40% in the last six years. It is quite substantial. We do have to ask questions in terms of how people are being deployed. There is an issue with the use of agencies. The Deputy raised that. There is no question about it. The Minister is very focused on that issue as well, regarding the use of full-time employees instead of agency staff.  Turning to Deputy Whitmore on endometriosis and the new framework, to be fair to the Ministers, previously Stephen Donnelly and now Deputy Carroll MacNeill, there has been progress on this issue but we are not there yet, of course. Is the Deputy talking about the cross-border directive or the treatment abroad service? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  It is the treatment abroad service. There are a number of countries that are----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We do not really do this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  On treatment abroad, that applies to the entirety of the European Union. It is meant to. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  No. No. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Again, I will talk to the Minister in respect of that. Generally speaking, across the board, treatment abroad has not had an issue in terms of its funding. That has never proved to be a problem in the past. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  There are three more Deputies to go. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  This is a specific treatment scheme for endometriosis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I will come back to the Deputy on it.  Deputy Cleere's question was on Friedreich\u2019s ataxia. I think I referenced this earlier. I fully appreciate what the Deputy said. I think he mentioned Emily Felix and Ois\u00edn Pollard. I have met quite a number of people as well. It is very distressing, difficult and challenging for the families and for Emily, Ois\u00edn and their contemporaries who want access to Skyclarys as quickly as possible. Early on, there were issues in getting the material from the company and so on, but all that has been overcome. I would hope that we will get a decision on that. Obviously, the Minister is trying to progress it as quickly as possible. I will come back to the Deputy after I talk to the Minister on this issue.  I do not think the way Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn presented the issue regarding blister packs was probably as accurate as the real story behind it. I think the Minister has been quite robust and has revealed a lot in terms of her own work on this issue. I will put it this way. There was a different practice in many different areas. There were different patterns of behaviour and different things being done by different pharmacists in that respect. It is not all as the Deputy articulated. We want to help those who need help, and the Minister will continue to target resources. The Minister already had an agreement with the Irish Pharmacy Union, IPU, in respect of this issue.  Regarding Deputy Lawless's question, I had a very good day in Mayo. It is a great hotel. Two pharmaceutical companies are doing very well in Mayo, namely, Vantive and AbbVie in Westport. Huge investment is under way over the next while in Castlebar further education and training college. In terms of the hospital, I do not have the specifics on that individual surgical experience of the person who broke their leg. That three-day period is not good, but I do not know what the background to it is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cabinet Committees"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements","counts":{"speechCount":24,"speakerCount":9},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_11","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_13.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I propose to take Questions Nos. 21 to 32, inclusive, together.  I undertook a four-day programme of engagements in the United States, visiting Philadelphia and Washington DC to celebrate St. Patrick's Day. My programme began in Philadelphia, where I met Irish community and business representatives, as well as Congressman Boyle, with whom I participated in the St. Patrick's Day parade. While there, I laid a wreath at a statue of Commodore John Barry, who founded the US Navy, and visited Independence Hall, where the US Declaration of Independence was signed 250 years ago. I also attended a gala dinner of the Friendly Sons and Daughters of St. Patrick, and I cut the ribbon on the Irish Diaspora Center's new premises, which carries out excellent work on behalf of the Irish community in Philadelphia and is supported by the Irish Government's immigrant support programme.  In Washington DC, I attended the embassy's St. Patrick's Day reception, which was attended by a large number of people from political, business, diplomatic and community backgrounds. I also attended the Ireland Funds' annual gala dinner. The Secretary of Transportation, Sean P. Duffy, was an honouree at this year's event.  On St. Patrick's Day itself, I met Vice President JD Vance and his wife, Usha, who hosted me and my wife, Mary, for breakfast in his residence. I met President Trump for a bilateral meeting in the Oval Office, where we discussed the contribution of Irish and Irish-American people to the development of the US, current bilateral relations, including our strong economic ties, and global issues. The meeting was also attended by Vice President Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Energy Chris Wright.  I also presented President Trump with the traditional bowl of shamrock to mark St. Patrick's Day at a ceremony and reception in the White House. The attendance included a number of senior representatives of the Administration, including members of the Cabinet, with whom I had the opportunity to engage.  I attended a Friends of Ireland lunch on Capitol Hill, hosted by Speaker Mike Johnson, with whom I also had a bilateral meeting at which we discussed bilateral relations, political developments in the US and international issues. While on Capitol Hill, I also met the Friends of Ireland Caucus, co-chaired by Representatives Richie Neal and Mike Kelly. The meeting was attended by a number of other representatives, including Mary Gay Scanlon of Philadelphia.  While in Washington, I also had a programme of economic engagements, including a breakfast hosted by Enterprise Ireland and a business leaders' lunch hosted by Ireland's enterprise agencies, at which I presented the Research Ireland academic and enterprise medals. I met the Strategic Economic Advisory Panel and discussed recent trade and economic developments. I also attended an event hosted by Stripe. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  We already debated the issue of the Taoiseach's St. Patrick's Day meeting with Donald Trump, a misogynist, homophobe, transphobe, genocider, funder of genocide in Palestine and convicted rapist but----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy, please. That is in the Deputy's opinion. I ask that----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  That is an actual fact. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  He is still a world leader. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I am going to go on because I am not having my time cut short.  The Taoiseach now seems to find and be able to separate out reasons why he should do these things. The latest is that he says sport and politics should not mix, and he has said that in relation to the Irish team playing Israel. Yet four of his MEPs obviously do think sport and politics mix because they have signed a complaint about Gianni Infantino, the FIFA president, and the farce of a World Cup that is being held right now, where a Somali referee was turned away, the Iranian team had to go to Mexico and three other teams were refused entry into the country and had to locate elsewhere because of the travel bans.  The US is descending towards fascism. That is the reality of it. I do not know if the Taoiseach has any regrets about his visit. Nobody has any issue with him meeting the diaspora - we are all in favour of that - but there is an issue with normalising somebody like Donald Trump in the current climate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail  A few weeks ago, we saw the AI company, Claude, switching off its Fable and Mythos models after engagement with the US Government. We are particularly vulnerable in Ireland because many of the public services are aligned with, and using, Microsoft and Copilot, which is AI software. There is a fear that something like what I have mentioned could happen with the likes of Microsoft in the future. I am not saying it will but it could. What we need to be considering from a European perspective, and I ask that the Taoiseach consider this during the EU Presidency, is the development of sovereign AI between the EU, Canada and the UK, with which we have shared values. That is a way we can move forward on artificial intelligence, particularly in a European context. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  As part of his visit, the Taoiseach visited Villanova University, a critical university in terms of Irish athletics. For the past number of years, I have had an intern from Villanova working with me. Part of the success has been around the exchanges that have happened over many years.  There had been a threat to the Fulbright programme. I am glad to say it is back on schedule. Recently, as the Taoiseach knows, the de Chastelain programme allowed for exchanges with Canada. I hope we can continue to build long-term relationships with the likes of the Fulbright and de Chastelain programmes. Would the Taoiseach consider extending some of the programmes to second level schools in the same way as schools in Ireland can exchange with European schools under the Erasmus programme? I refer to extending the possibilities to North America as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Daly  I welcomed the Taoiseach's visit to the US. He represented Ireland's interests extremely well. He reminded America that it is a two-way street in terms of economic collaboration, with Ireland being the fifth largest source of foreign direct investment, FDI, in the US, investing close to $390 billion in the American economy, with 200,000 people directly employed there, and $476 billion in FDI coming from the US.  The Taoiseach defended the EU and European values, and he countered the false narrative that Europe was being overrun by migrants. He won respect for his defence of Keir Starmer, who has done so much to restore UK\u2013Ireland relations after a very difficult UK\u2013EU Brexit negotiation process. In saying all that, he also identified the fact that the EU needs to develop indigenous new technologies such as in AI, social media and pharma, and increase competitiveness to enable research and growth to develop self-reliance and resilience. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  The Taoiseach originally told us the occupied territories Bill could not be enacted because of legal constraints. More recently, he admitted that the real obstacle, in his eyes, is the fear that American companies might abandon Ireland. This is despite the fact that his own party not only voted for this Bill in 2019 but actually introduced it to the D\u00e1il on behalf of Senator Frances Black. He promised voters during the general election campaign of 2024 that he would enact it.  Is there any level of mass murder, State terror, forced displacement or land theft visited upon Palestinians by the Israeli state that would move him from words of condemnation and appeals for a unified European approach that may never materialise to meaningful trade sanctions and the proper enactment of that 2019 D\u00e1il vote? What exactly is he asking us to believe? Is it that companies operating in Ireland for commercial advantage, access to talent and access to the EU market and tax purposes will forfeit all of that just because Donald Trump might throw a tantrum about Ireland refusing to facilitate illegal settlement trade with a genocidal apartheid state? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  The vast majority of data centres in Ireland are owned by American technology multinationals. As the Taoiseach knows, data centres are swallowing up increasing amounts of our electricity. They are putting the grid under enormous pressure. The costs in relation to constraints and bottlenecks are so high now that energy companies have to switch off their turbines and energy users have to pay those energy companies to switch off their turbines. Network stabilisation is now one of the biggest elements of electricity bills.  Data centres' insatiable thirst for gas means that we are always pushed into the marginal pricing that gas increases. The Government's policy is part of that problem. Tomorrow we will see massive hikes in the cost of electricity. Will the Taoiseach ensure that the price of electricity for data centres is increased so domestic users will get a reduction in price? Have data centres played any part in his discussions with Donald Trump or the American regime in terms of foreign direct investment? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Over the past week or two, we have seen a fast-tracking of the liquefied natural gas, LNG, Bill through the D\u00e1il.  This is a big mistake. There are still a lot of questions about the rationale for this particular project. I understand that when the Taoiseach met with Donald Trump in the Oval Office, he said, \"... I'm hopeful that we'll soon reach a deal to sell American liquefied natural gas - and that\u2019ll bring down your deficit a lot - so I think you have to make this deal with us, you better do something.\" Did those comments by Donald Trump have any impact on the speed at which the Government is putting through the liquefied natural gas, LNG, facility? Have any of the Taoiseach's Ministers or officials had any conversations with US representatives in relation to an LNG deal with the US? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy Coppinger put words into my mouth. I did not use those specific words about sport and politics but I did say that I do not think the Irish football team should be disadvantaged by the issue of the Israeli-Ireland game. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  It could have been one of the Taoiseach's Ministers. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I did not use that phrase so let us be clear about that. I do not want Irish football to be the victim. There are issues with FIFA, as we know. It would not cost FIFA a thought the Irish football team were to be relegated or whatever, and if there were consequences for seedings and if Irish football was set back by potentially a decade. That is an issue.  On the visit, the relationship with Ireland is significant for a number of reasons. In terms of the economic relationship, it is extremely important. It puts a lot of bread on the table. It is very important for Irish jobs. President Trump is the democratically elected President of the United States. Whether the Deputy likes that or not is beside the point. He is democratically elected. Successive taoisigh have visited successive presidents of the United States as a way of symbolising the historic and deep relationship between our two countries. The 250th anniversary coming. America will celebrate the Declaration of Independence. Three of the signatories of that declaration were born in Ireland. Approximately 12 had Irish connections. Our relationship is deep and familial, diasporic, economic, cultural and artistic. Visiting the White House and the President is a symbol of all of that, and is an important moment. All the agencies of the State are engaged that week in particular, right across the United States and right across the world. That has strong outcomes for Ireland in job creation, tourism and investment globally as well as in the United States.  Deputy \u00d3 Cear\u00fail raised a significant issue about the decision about Fable and Mythos and the restriction put on it. There is an issue around sovereign AI. I met representatives of companies in Canada who made that point to me. There are issues about how we deal it because it is not simple. There is a real issue coming down the tracks if that practice were to continue. I discussed it with Prime Minister Carney. It could lead to a two-tiered scenario, which could have negative implications globally. It is a very significant and serious issue.  Deputy Malcolm Byrne is correct about the importance of scholarship programmes between the United States and Ireland. I visited Villanova University. The head of coaching at Villanova is a former schoolmate of mine, Marcus O'Sullivan. He is a world champion from Turner's Cross. He was the year behind me. I saw him as a young guy running in Corca Dhuibhne when we were down there for a month with Col\u00e1iste Chr\u00edost R\u00ed. I did not realise he subsequently became a world champion but he did. He now heads the coaching operation in Villanova University. I met a chap called Charlie O'Donovan, an ex-Col\u00e1iste Chr\u00edost R\u00ed youngster, who has run a sub four-minute mile. The Villanova connection with Ireland is long-standing, with Eamonn Coughlan, Ronnie Delaney and all the milers, in particular. It has been phenomenal in its impact on Irish athletics, so it was very good to visit. It is famed in song and story and in athletics, in particular.  On extending it to second level schools, that is a very good idea. I will talk to the ambassador and others to see how we could progress that. I have always looked for legal channels of engagement with the United States. I would never recommend that any young person should go to the United States illegally. It is not a journey that a young person should even contemplate because its lifelong implications can be difficult and challenging. We should open as many legal channels of engagement as possible. I was involved with the former deputy Secretary of State, John Negroponte, in doing the graduate working holiday agreement back in 2008 or 2009. I would certainly look at that second level exchange.  I thank Deputy Martin Daly for his affirmative comments in respect of my visit to the United States. The economic relationship, as the Deputy outlined well, is enormous. Sometimes it almost amuses me the degree to which it is simply dismissed by certain Deputies in the House as something of no value and that should not feature at all in our consideration of what we do on occasions such as 17 March every year. Thumbing your nose at people and ignoring various people elected to office on the basis of their politics, and not taking on board the damage and consequences for Irish people, is another form of irresponsibility. I appreciate the comments that the Deputy has made. We used the occasion, as the Deputy said, to affirm Europe, European values and the European lived experience, which some in the United States continue to decry. Europe is a good place in which to live. It is a very positive place in its diversity, multiculturalism and freedom of speech. We should never be afraid to champion the positives of what Europe has to offer.  On our side, our companies and SMEs are doing well in the United States. Those who engage or scale up in the United States are doing particularly well and many of our companies are exporting and creating jobs in the United States.  Deputy Quaide ignored completely the significant work the Government has been doing over recent years, at a European level and globally, on the question of Palestine and the appalling Israeli war on the people of Palestine. The Government recognised the State of Palestine, along with Spain and then Slovenia. We were the only EU member state, although Spain eventually joined, to participate in the South African case. We joined that case, which went for judgment in the International Court of Justice, ICJ. We have moved resolutions at the United Nations. The Deputy ignored all of that. He asked how much more murder it will take. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  How about enacting a Bill that you voted for? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I mean no disrespect but what a horrible way to put it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  What about enacting a Bill that you voted for? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Deputy has had his time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  It is as if the Deputy has a monopoly on moral rectitude in respect of this. The Irish Government is known internationally for its strong stance in defending Palestinians and self-determination. The occupied territories Bill is the latest issue that has arisen. It will not be of any consequence in actuality and will impact less than \u20ac200,000 worth of goods. However, it is symbolic. That is largely its import and impact. That is the reality. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Liam Quaide  The Taoiseach voted for the Bill and then gutted it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Minister is bringing the legislation forward. It is going through the House at the moment and I presume it will be passed. It is another advance on ten to 15 decisions we have taken. Ireland was foremost in defending the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA, for example, when it was under real threat from some within the previous European Commission at the time. We intervened to stop the haemorrhaging of funds from UNRWA. We doubled down by doubling our contribution to UNRWA. We have done a fair bit. Most Palestinians accept that, and not only just accept it, they thank us every time we meet them. What is happening is still horrendous. The killing of innocent children and women is shocking. We cannot get agreement at European level. Different member states have different positions, and still do, in respect of the atrocities that are occurring, and continue to occur, in particular with the prevention of humanitarian aid getting into Gaza and the lack of proper implementation even of phase one of the recent peace deal and cessation of violence.  Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn raised data centres. Over the past five years, we have slowed down the development of data centres a lot. Data centres are vital for the digital world in which we live. That is just the reality. We have to develop significant capacity on the energy front to be able to deal with the AI revolution and further growth of any data centres.  The CRU has produced a large energy user policy. It creates a framework to allow for further data centres to be built in circumstances where they use 80% renewable energy. We are some distance away from where we were in the growth of data centres, but they are not the great evil that people, including the Deputy, portray them to be.  I did not have any discussions with President Trump about data centres. America is just ploughing ahead and getting them done in six to nine months. It is a very different scene in, for example, Texas. We have to measure this. Data centres use up a lot of electricity - the Deputy is correct about that - and there are issues, but they are also an important part of the broader technology area and in the growth of investment in the country. They cannot be dismissed. Moratoriums on their own would not be positive, but we have to proceed in a measured way from here on.  For Deputy Whitmore to conflate the LNG Bill with the visit to America----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Where he told the Taoiseach to buy LNG. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Deputy is scraping the barrel with that one. Excuse the pun.  The LNG facility is an energy security issue. It was raised under the last Government and documentation exists from the Department warning the last Government that if anything were to happen to gas interconnections with Britain, our economy would be in trouble within ten days. It would be totally irresponsible of any Government not to act on that advice. This is not a climate issue; it is an energy security issue. There is a need for honesty in the House about this matter. People in the Opposition keep saying it is an anti-climate measure, and deliberately so. That is not the case. We are not deliberately doing this to be anti-climate. We are doing it because we will need an alternative storage facility in the event of any disruption to the gas supplies to the country. Deputy Whitmore would be the first Deputy to attack the Government, if anything were to happen, for not attempting to provide for this.  It will take time, even at the pace we are going, to get this facility in place to give us the security we require. We need it. There is no other way out. It has been recommended by officials with responsibility for energy security. That is the context for it. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/72","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/72\/dail\/3_sub","houseCode":"dail","stage":"3_sub","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages","counts":{"speechCount":52,"speakerCount":14},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin Hayes","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-Hayes.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoin-Hayes.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Section 1 agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"SECTION 2"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment No. 1 not moved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  I move amendment No. 2:  In page 7, between lines 22 and 23, to insert the following:  \u201c \u201cemergency use only\u201d has the meaning as defined by the N-1 infrastructure standard defined by EU Regulation 2017\/1938 only. A Strategic Emergency Gas Reserve under this Act and all future Acts relating to its construction, operation, maintenance and decommissioning cannot be used for management of day-to-day energy demand;\u201d.  What we want to do is provide a definition of \"emergency use only\" and insist on it. This is a simple----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Climate, Energy and the Environment (Deputy Darragh O'Brien)  That is a different amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I should have sai thatd we are dealing with amendments Nos. 2, 3, 5, 9 and 18. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Is it section 2 or amendment No. 2? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  It is section 2, amendments Nos. 1 and 12. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  No. We are dealing with amendment No. 2 to section 2. That is because the relevant Deputy was not here to move amendment No. 1. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Amendment No. 12 was grouped with amendment No. 1. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Yes, it was. We can come back to amendment No. 12 when we get to it. At the moment, we are on the grouping that includes amendment No. 2. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  T\u00e1 br\u00f3n orm, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  That is okay. The Minister is forgiven. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Should I move amendment No. 12 then? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  No. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Will I continue on amendment No. 2? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Yes. Amendments Nos. 2, 3, 5, 9 and 18 are related and may be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  As I said, this is a simple, but critical amendment. It is because \"emergency use only\" must and should be clearly defined in law and a strategic gas reserve such as the one proposed should be a measure of last resort and a limited, emergency tool rather than a permanent fossil fuel lock-in. Therefore, we hope that this amendment will put clear legal boundaries on what the reserve is, as defined by the EU's N-1 standard. That matters because, without these definitions, the emergency reserve risks becoming business-as-usual gas infrastructure. Ireland is already reliant on fossil fuels for 81% of its energy. This Bill cannot deepen that dependency.  The amendment proposes that the reserve be a backstop and not a crutch. It cannot be used to address localised network constraints or routine increases in gas demand. It should not be for day-to-day use. It is for emergency use, as outlined when it was proposed initially, and the Bill must not be used to construct infrastructure for business-as-usual operations. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  What we and the Minister need to try to do is bring a level of transparency to this debate and try to engender a level of trust. Trust has been broken between the public and the Government in this regard. When the Minister has talked about all the different elements of this facility, the key thing he mentioned is that it is to be a strategic, State-led, State-owned, State-run non-commercial facility to be used in limited circumstances. These amendments speak to those limited circumstances. It is important that the Bill be explicit regarding in what circumstances this facility can be utilised. That is why I and others tabled amendments.  I will talk about it being a State-owned and State-led facility because that is another very important safeguard. I was surprised to see that is not discussed or mentioned in the Bill the Minister brought forward, despite the fact that in every discussion we have had in this Chamber and committees and any debate, including when the Minister has spoken about it on the radio, the key thing he says is that it will be a State-owned, State-led non-commercial facility. That is the key message he is trying to get across, yet the Bill does not even mention that. There is a major gap here and it brings about a question of trust and transparency and whether the public can really believe the intentions behind this facility.  I tabled a number of amendments to the Bill, including one to deal with the fact the operation of the birds and habitats directive was essentially removed from the Bill. I put in an amendment that called for a review of alternatives to how we can meet the energy security needs through batteries, interconnectors or by forcing companies to have alternative fuels on site.  I also tabled an amendment on analysing the impact that this was going to have on domestic bills. For some reason, all of these amendments were ruled out of order on the basis that they were in conflict with the principle of the Bill, which is incredible. I question why they were ruled out. A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I have never seen an instance where amendments were ruled out of order - there is no money message here - because they were in conflict with the principle of the Bill as read a Second Time. I imagine an awful lot of the amendments that go through this House are trying to improve Bills and through that may be in conflict with the Bills' fundamental principles, but I have never seen any amendments being ruled out of order on that basis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  You can take that up with the Ceann Comhairle's office. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I am taking it up here as well because it is clearly wrong----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  They were ruled out of order. The ruling is made. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  It is clearly wrong to rule out of order amendments that have no money message on this basis. It completely undermines the Opposition's ability to improve, or put safeguards into, this legislation. It is really important that we have safeguards in it and that when Deputies are making decisions in here or when the public is making up its mind about this LNG facility, they are doing it on the basis of full and transparent information. I am aware that the Minister has said that there are energy security risks associated with any potential impact on the interconnectors with Scotland and the gas intake from them, but the security reviews conducted did not look holistically at alternatives. They did not look to see whether they could pull together a plan that would deal with battery storage, alternative fuels and forcing companies to ensure that they had sufficient storage of fuel on site. That is a real flaw and undermines the whole premise of this debate. The information and evidence are not there to support what the Government is trying to do with this Bill.  I will get back to the amendment. It is important as part of that that there be a definition of \"emergency\" on a statutory basis that outlines exactly when this facility can be used. There is a fear that this facility will become a de facto gas intake facility that will end up being run on a commercial basis or, even if it is done on a non-commercial basis, that it will increase our gas usage. I therefore ask that this amendment be considered. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I echo a lot of the points made already about the temporary nature of this and what we have been promised. I am looking at a briefing from the Department of energy on 4 February. We were given numerous briefings by the Department about this. The Minister tried to avoid pre-legislative scrutiny and our committee had to fight for it. We have a report with 43 recommendations, all of which seem to have been ignored in this Bill. This briefing, which was given to us by the Department as part of our pre-legislative scrutiny, talks about this being \"a state-owned gas storage facility\" that will be \"an emergency reserve\" and that it \"is not intended for commercial use and will not act as a new entry point for gas into the system\". It talks about the reserve only being used \"in the event of a major disruption to sub-sea gas pipelines\". I do not understand, given everything we were told beforehand, why none of this is in the Bill. What is the Minister afraid of? As Deputy Whitmore has said, it gives rise to a lack of trust for those of us who are trying in good faith to scrutinise this legislation and spending huge amounts of time at the committee and in here putting forward proposals if all of that is simply going to be ignored. If the Minister's belief is that this is to be used in emergency circumstances only, then why not say that explicitly in the Bill? Why not have a definition of what an \"emergency\" is, as the committee recommended?  Our fear is that this is just going to add to national gas demand. It is going to facilitate the importation or additional gas, not just gas to be used in emergency circumstances. That is why I am very supportive of this amendment and the other amendments on the emergency nature of this facility and the temporary nature of the reserve.  There is a lot of money being invested in this infrastructure. It was \u20ac1 billion last time and it will most likely be more at the next estimate. This is long-term fossil fuel infrastructure that is being built.  We want to believe that the Minister that this is only going to be used in emergency circumstances and is not going to be commercially driven but there is nothing in this Bill to give us any confidence in that. That is the problem. That is why we are proposing these amendments and I am supporting them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Amendment No. 18 in this grouping is in my name. Before I get into the substantive issue, it is important to again raise the process that is being followed here. This is important legislation and there are fundamental disagreements over the extent to which it will contribute to our country's energy security, but it is being rushed through both Committee and Report Stages in two hours. There is no need for this Bill to be rushed in this way and I think it is unprecedented, certainly in this D\u00e1il, to see this Bill and another one coming in in two hours' time being rushed in this way. This particular Bill is going to lock us into the use of LNG in our energy mix. It will have long-term consequences. The consequences of this Bill will be felt up to 2050. For a Bill that has a 25-year timeline, we are getting two hours of debate. It is important to put that on record.  There is a large set of amendments. This is not filibustering, as these are detailed, researched amendments being put forward by the Opposition. Some them were drawn up with the advice of environmental groups. Those groups wanted to meet the Minister and engage with him on this Bill but he was not available. This is the ability for legislation to be strengthened and we are not getting that. When Committee and Report Stages are banged in together, it shows a Government not taking the issue seriously. It is important to put that on record. In particular, the idea that a brand new piece of fossil fuel infrastructure would be exempted from the application of the climate Act makes a mockery of our country's statements that we take climate action seriously.  On the grouping, my amendment proposes that section 7(1) state:  The designated strategic gas reserve, including any terminal, infrastructure, or facility developed under this Act, shall remain exclusively in public ownership and under State control and shall not be transferred or outsourced, in whole or in part, to any private commercial entity.  It proposes that section 7(2) state:  The facility shall be operated solely by a designated public body for emergency energy security purposes and shall not be utilized [sic] for commercial trading of gas supplies by any private enterprise.  My amendment is trying to copper-fasten into the Bill the things the Minister has been saying throughout the debate on this legislation, namely, that it will be a publicly owned entity and will only be used for emergency purposes and have no commercial element to it. That has been said throughout this process but it is not in the Bill anywhere and we are trying to put it in. We are trying to bring in a reasoned amendment on this particular point. It is essential that the facility, if it goes ahead, does not contribute to additional net use of gas in the system. In order to secure that, the facility needs to be highly controlled. How do we do that? We ensure that, in the legislation, the gas that would be stored in this reserve would not be traded or sent out to any other body.  This supply of gas should be solely for emergency purposes and it should only be an extreme emergency. It should be for that doomsday scenario that is spoken about time and again, that is, an attack on the undersea gas pipeline between Scotland and Northern Ireland. We must also ensure that in a case like that, in such a large energy emergency, it is not the large energy users, which seem to get so much precedence in the Department these days, which are going to benefit. They should be asked to cut their consumption in the case of an emergency like that. In order to achieve these objectives, the legislation needs to be changed to clearly articulate that it is State-owned and State-run and that there are clear controls put in for the Commission for Regulation of Utilities. By accepting this amendment, my amendment or some of the similar amendments proposed by other Deputies, the Minister could go at least some of the way to addressing the concerns raised by Opposition Deputies and NGOs that have raised these issues about the operation of the facility. He will actually be guaranteeing the political points he has made throughout this argument, which is that it is going to be publicly controlled. If it is, he should say it. It should be stated in the legislation. If it is not going to add to the overall supply of gas, he should state it, and put it into the legislation. We will listen to the Minister's response to this group of amendments but I cannot see why these basic levels of protection would not be codified within the Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I am speaking in support of the Sinn F\u00e9in amendments. The Minister has failed in his job to guarantee the energy security of our people. He cannot guarantee that the lights will stay on. Now we are in a position where the Government intends to spend \u20ac1 billion to facilitate the development of a liquefied natural gas, LNG, terminal, as a so-called strategic gas reserve in County Clare, where I am based. That is wrong for our communities and wrong for energy security and climate obligations. Even the Minister's own energy package is clear that the best way to support energy security and meet climate commitments is to build a renewable-led energy system, not a fossil-led system, and prioritise reductions in gas demand. More gas is not the same as more security.  Dependence on imported fossil fuels is precisely what has left us exposed. Ireland is among the most fossil fuel dependent countries in Europe and we have fallen behind because too many Government plans exist only on paper. We might look at offshore wind. We have an incredible untapped potential. We have 640 GWs, yet how much is being delivered? Absolutely nothing - zero. Instead of harnessing that massive natural resource, the Government is rolling out the red carpet for commercial LNG, disapplying the planning Acts, carving out exemptions from normal conditions and, as we have seen in County Clare, failing to properly engage with local communities. That is not democratic participation. It is bypassing the very people who have to live with the consequences. While hundreds of thousands of people struggle to pay their energy bills, which are the highest in Europe, those with disabilities cannot reliably charge vital machines. This LNG plan will drive bills up even higher. The estimated \u20ac60 million annual running costs will be socialised through an additional levy on household bills. Ordinary people should not be forced to foot the bill for Fianna F\u00e1il's and Fine Gael's energy security failures. The Government should be bringing prices down, not adding new hikes. Any State-led facility must be subject to full democratic oversight and scrutiny, not exemptions or shortcuts. Real energy is energy for homes and businesses delivered by accelerating renewables, modernising the grids, prioritising storage and energy efficiency and insisting on proper community benefit and ownership. It is planning with communities, not against them. It is ending the stop-start short-term fixes and finally delivering the long-term infrastructure this island needs. That is why Sinn F\u00e9in supports greater public investment and public ownership in renewables to achieve genuine Irish energy dependence. It is critical for our security and it is the surest way to bring down costs for households and small businesses. We want expanded public local community and domestic ownership so that our vast natural resources become a national wealth for all. Community engagement must be real and respectful, not to stymie progress but to ensure fairness and accountability and that is not what we have seen in County Clare.  The choice is stark. The Government can double down on imported fossil fuels and higher bills or it can choose a renewables-led system, rapid offshore wind delivery and grid upgrades. It can demand side measures that cut bills, partnerships with communities that give people a stake and a say, transparent Government and value for money. Sinn F\u00e9in chooses energy sovereignty and common sense. We choose to invest in Ireland's future, not in yesterday's fuels and lower bills over levies.  I am saying clearly that we need to oppose the LNG terminal as a so-called strategic gas reserve, end the exemptions, respect communities in County Clare and across the island, redirect the \u20ac1 billion to help accelerate offshore wind and grid resilience and deliver an energy system that is clean secure, affordable and Irish. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  Amendments Nos. 2, 5 and 9 are in my name and Deputy Pa Daly's. This Bill is a bit of a Trojan horse - I think most of us in the Opposition see it as that - around getting commercial LNG and more fossil fuel into the system. Amendment No. 2 inserts a provision to make sure this is for emergency use only. Amendment No. 5 attempts to provide a definition for \"temporary\" in the Bill. The Minister dropped \"emergency\" from the Title of the Bill and that really shows that the cloak is falling from the eyes here. People used to say, \"Build it and they will come\". That is certainly what we think this is. Amendment No. 9 seeks to insert a provision for \"Temporary emergency use\".  This Bill is supposed to be a temporary measure to keep the lights on in an emergency. The only reason we need this Bill is due to the short-sightedness of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael which made sure we were left in this situation where we now need this in an emergency. The Minister can throw his eyes up to heaven but if I had been in government for the past 100 years, I would be embarrassed too, so there you go. We cannot use these kinds of things as an excuse for a day-to-day operation. That is what we are worried about. The signs the Minister has given us so far are certainly making us realise that we cannot be relying on fossil fuels. We were here last week talking about this. I never saw as many Members waiting to speak come in early. They were enjoying the air conditioning in the Chamber. Climate change is real and we have to be ready for it.  We had amendments ruled out of order. I will take it up with the Ceann Comhairle but we did offer alternatives around battery storage. We knew we were facing these energy emergencies and the Government did nothing other than bring forward this Bill, which only ties us into more fossil fuel use.  Our amendment provides clear legal definitions of \"temporary\". We have to outline what \"temporary\" is. \"Temporary\" could mean ten years to one person. We are proposing a ten-year limit on operations with a review every three years and with a clear expiry clause renewed by the Oireachtas. Our amendment No. 9 also seeks plans for maintenance and plans for decommissioning the unit if it is going to be temporary and for emergency use only. We want the Minister to bring a report to the Houses of the Oireachtas every year, so that we can make sure this is temporary. We have to focus on temporary and emergency use of the emergency reserves. They cannot become a permanent feature of our energy supply. We have to prevent the normalisation of the use of fossil fuels to keep the lights on. Our amendments will guarantee that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I thank the Deputies who put forward their amendments. First, to restate what the Ceann Comhairle said, I have nothing to do with whether amendments are ruled in or our of order. Deputy Whitmore, in particular, made that case, and Deputy Cronin less so. That is a matter for the Ceann Comhairle's office and completely independent of me.  Can we just put in context why we are here? In March 2025, the Government approved the development of a State-led strategic gas reserve. That is critical to securing our energy security as we continue that transition to indigenous clean renewable energy, which we are doing, and this is not instead of that. In the first four or five months of this year we have seen about 50% of our electricity generated through renewable resources, which is good. We want to see that accelerate further.  This legislation is in line with a programme for Government priority. It builds on what was the Energy Security in Ireland to 2030: Energy Security Package report. That genuinely cannot be ignored. That was again approved by the previous Government, of which Deputy O'Gorman was a member, back in November 2023. It is consistent with our climate plan because that speaks to energy security and is a transitional measure, reducing the risk of stranded fossil fuel assets. It is for emergency use only and does not support increased gas demand. The approval of this approach represents a culmination of extensive independent research analysis and engagement, all of which have been published.  There was four weeks of pre-legislative scrutiny done at committee, and a good job was done there.  This reserve will be in the form of a floating storage and regasification unit, which will be owned on behalf of the State by the system operator, Gas Networks Ireland. GNI is written into the legislation. The location of the reserve is written into the legislation, so it certainly is not about commercialisation of LNG in the Irish mix.  This Bill is one of two. This Bill, in particular, provides the process for the direct application to me, as Minister for Climate, Energy and the Environment, for the development consent, with specified accelerated timelines for each stage of this bespoke consenting process. That is the case because this is urgent. There is a critical risk, which has been identified independently of Government, that if there was disruption to the gas supply that we receive - only 20% of our gas is produced domestically and the remainder is imported - or if, God forbid, something was to happen to the imported gas that we receive while we are still using gas within our energy mix, we would have serious difficulties here, not only from an economic perspective but from a societal perspective as well.  We are, right now, dependent on interconnection. We are building further interconnectors on the electricity side. We are building the Celtic interconnector. We are investing heavily in our grid. Renewables are accelerating. Today, I intended the Energy Storage Ireland national conference. We are number three on energy storage. Many people have referred to long-duration battery storage. I agree we need to do more of that. We are actually ranked third in the European Union, behind only Germany and Italy. We have 1.3 GW of installed long-duration battery storage, with a major pipeline of projects to come through.  On the amendments in the grouping, this legislation deals with the consenting process. It does not deal with the operation of it. The operation of it will be by way of separate legislation that will specifically state that this will be State owned, State led and State managed, used in extremis , not to increase gas usage in this country whatsoever. It is a risk that has been identified, that cannot be ignored and that needs to be address. We need to ameliorate that risk to our country as we continue to accelerate renewables. We have reached over 8 GW of renewable capacity integrated into our grid, with a significant pipeline of projects.  Offshore renewables were mentioned. Our focus is on getting them into development by the end of this decade. I do not control the planning process. We are expecting two decisions, hopefully this year, in that regard. I do not know whether they will be objected to. I have, by the way, engaged with environmental groups in the environmental pillar on their views in relation to this legislation.  It is necessary. It is urgent. That is why we need a bespoke planning approach to this. It is why the Deputies will see within the legislation that GNI is mentioned. The location of the site itself is mentioned specifically in the legislation. This is not about building gas terminals all over the country - anything but. This is a strategic reserve, State owned and State led, that is required and this legislation deals with the consenting process itself.  With that said, I cannot accept the amendments tabled by the Deputies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Arising out of what the Minister said, if he does not have a problem with it being temporary or emergency, he should accept the amendments.  The Minister mentioned renewable energy and the progress that, he says, has been made with offshore wind. However, in our view and in the view of some Government people also, the Government and previous Governments have been sitting on their hands in relation to offshore wind. We have untapped potential of 540 GW and by 2030, we will find it difficult to match 5 GW.  The Minister also mentioned that he has no control over the planning process but, in fact, while he might not be making the decisions, he would have had the power to appoint more High Court judges and appoint more staff to an coimisi\u00fan, and previously to An Bord Plean\u00e1la, but that was not done. Most of the delays can be attributed to the lack of staffing in those organisations. This is all important. In the amendments about temporary use, which Deputy Cronin had moved, it is important that it actually be temporary use. The Government itself has said that it will probably take five years to create it and then it will be in existence for approximately ten years after that. Is that temporary then? Certainly, it is more medium to long term than a short-term solution to a potential problem that has been outlined. We have asked for a definition of temporary, whereby it should not become permanent by default, with a ten-year limit on the operation, regular reviews every three years and a clear expiry clause unless it is renewed by the Oireachtas. Critically, we want a requirement for a decommissioning plan, also within 12 months, because you cannot build infrastructure such as this without planning an off-ramp or out-clause at the end of it. If it is truly an emergency measure, it should not become an permanent feature.  On a broader level, energy security is a fundamental responsibility of Government - keeping the lights on - and this Government has failed in that regard. Instead of delivering a secure, independent, all-island affordable and sustainable energy system, what we have is the first part of a Bill, which is rushed and flawed, repeating the exact same mistakes that have got us here in the first place, with ordinary people asked to pay the price and fork out.  As the Minister himself said, we are exposed to geopolitical conflict. We import 80% of our energy. That was never a pathway to energy security but we are still vulnerable because of the failure to invest over the years in offshore wind, in renewables and in our energy future. As we move towards a united Ireland, we need to have an energy system that is destined to be used by the whole of the island. Rather than fixing these structural failures, this Bill is doubling down, locking us further into fossil fuel dependence. It would never have been suggested a number of years ago that we would have to bring in fracked gas, on which there was a ban, but in the immediate aftermath of the last election, it was trumpeted that the ban on fracked gas had been removed by this Government. That is why we have brought forward our comprehensive set of amendments, not to obstruct but to help and to protect households, the public interest and our energy future. We will get to some of them later when we are talking about the potential increase to household bills. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I have a couple of points on what the Minister said. As part of our pre-legislative scrutiny, we looked at the energy security review that this is all based on. The review was conducted a number of years ago. The international situation has changed markedly since that review was conducted. Even the price of LNG on the markets has increased massively since Trump's war on Iran. We had asked for that review to be updated in light of the most recent massive market instability in the fossil fuel market.  We also believe that review was flawed in terms of the solutions it offered or the potential solutions that it looked at. It seems to have looked at solutions in isolation. We have gone through all of this previously. It looked at this sort of reserve versus an interconnector or the reserve versus a battery, whereas it does not seem to have looked at this strategic LNG reserve versus batteries, interconnectors and wind, or whatever, in a mix like that. We had asked at pre-legislative scrutiny for that to be reviewed prior to this Bill being put forward here, and that just has not been done. Therefore, I do not necessarily accept the Minister's arguments that this is the only way. We all understand that energy security is necessary, just not that this is the only way to achieve that, and that seems to be what the Minister comes back to repeatedly.  Something else the Minister mentioned is that the Bill before us today is about the consenting process and that we will see another Bill in due course in relation to the operations of the reserve, but it seems that is an arbitrary distinction and that there is a lot of overlap, and you would imagine there would be a lot of reference points in this Bill that would relate to the operational aspect of a reserve.  The Minister has used a lot of strong language, which I welcome, in his commitments regarding how this reserve is going to operate. He said it is not going to increase our State's gas use whatsoever and that it is not going to be commercially run but State owned and temporary. Again, however, we have not seen the heads of the Bill yet. At this point, we have to take all this on trust, with nothing else to refer to, including the decommissioning at the end of this process, when the time comes for the State to decide we do not need this any more.  We are taking a lot of things on faith here. As I said, we gave many recommendations to the Minister by the climate committee in its pre-legislative scrutiny that we do not see here or anywhere else. That is why we are taking some of these positions today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  This is a bespoke piece of legislation and a bespoke consenting process for this particular facility. It is a complete exception to our planning process, so it is not good enough for the Minister to say the Government will deal with the issue of public ownership in the second, subsequent piece of legislation. There is absolutely no reason the public element that has been articulated by the Minister throughout could not be reiterated in this legislation. We are doing something entirely new and novel here, and clarity on the public ownership and operation could absolutely be built into this legislation. This would at least alleviate that concern in advance of the second piece of legislation. I do not think the Minister's point on why he is rejecting amendment No. 18 and other amendments holds water.  On the wider question of the strategic decision that I and others believe the Minister is taking, this will result in us being locked into LNG well into the next decade. It means focus, resources and money. Let us not forget this is costing us \u20ac900 million now and no doubt will be more when the time comes. This strategic decision to spend money here means money will be taken away from the energy transition. The Minister regularly speaks about his accelerating renewable electricity task force and all the great things it has been able to do, but I wonder what that task force says the barriers are when he meets with it. Both he and the Minister, Deputy Chambers, come in here and say the barriers are the planning process, the climate Act and this and that, but when we meet the renewable energy organisations, the first thing they all say is there are not enough staff in An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la and that its decision-making time has increased over the past six months. That is what they tell us; maybe they are wrong, but I do not think they are, to be honest.  An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la's size has grown, but it is still not enough. It is still not enough for the level of work it has to do, which is everything from offshore wind to a planning appeal about an extension beside my house. It all ends up in An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la and there is not the capacity or bandwidth to get those decisions done. I do not understand this absolute fixation the Ministers, Deputies O'Brien and Chambers, have about not putting the resources into the one intersecting point of so much of our transport, electricity and infrastructure decisions. Trotting out this line about the Government having doubled it over a certain period is not good enough. The bodies in industry representing wind, solar and battery storage all say it to us, and I have no doubt they are saying it to the Minister in his electricity task force.  I have no doubt that when the Minister was meeting with the energy storage groups today, they also brought forward the blockages they see, namely, no clear total amount of electricity storage requirement for the country, one of the key things set out in the task force report published in July 2024; and no clear renewable energy support system for battery storage, putting it at a disadvantage when compared with other forms of renewable energy. This also puts Ireland at a disadvantage compared with other member states, where they are putting in place those supports. The people who have planning permission for battery storage here in Ireland but have not built out yet will move. The money will move if other member states are putting in that financial support.  I think it was in April that 18% of the renewable energy in this country was wasted because we did not have the battery storage there. We may be third in Europe but we are still wasting large amounts of renewable energy that can help us make this energy transition and help cut bills for households across this country. That is where the Minister's Department and political focus should be, rather than locking us further into LNG. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin Hayes","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-Hayes.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoin-Hayes.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin Hayes  This Bill is an admission of failure. It is an admission of failure on energy policy and energy security. It is an admission of failure of several Governments' inability to plan properly for energy in Ireland.  I had to stop myself for a second and think that, yes, it is 2026 - that is what is written on the Bill - but we have climate goals to 2030 and we have to get to net zero by 2050. Does the Minister know how long it takes to build an LNG terminal and to develop these gasification units? It takes years. I expect the Minister might be at the ribbon cutting ceremony for the LNG terminal when it is commissioned, which might be in 2030, when we are trying to hit climate targets. That is a huge problem. This is a huge step backwards.  When I was born in October 1987, the number of parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was 346; it is now 431. We are going in the absolute opposite direction. With one of the first energy bills it has brought forward after the Critical Infrastructure Bill has been passed, this Government has decided on one on gas - not on wind, accelerating solar or ensuring we have alternative or sustainable fuels but instead for us to import fracked gas from other parts of the world. That is a huge admission of failure and a huge problem.  They say one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. We have seen what gas prices have done to our economy and what the reliance on fossil fuels has done to our economy, first with the invasion of Ukraine and second with the war in Iran, yet we are going to say we want more gas. Is that the answer here? Is that what the Government's policy is here? I absolutely appreciate there is an energy security issue - 100% - but why would the first Bill we bring forward under climate or critical infrastructure not be on renewables rather than fossil fuels? It does not make any sense, and it certainly does not make sense under these timelines, when Government is trying to hit climate goals by 2030 and get to net zero by 2050. This terminal will be operational by 2050, if the Government goes ahead with it. Of course it will. Why would it not be? The Government is giving no rationale as to how it will hit these climate goals by 2030. In fact, it has already admitted failure, and we are four years out from it.  In some ways, it feels like we have lost our minds here. We have lost a sense of what we are trying to do with climate change and the energy mix. The idea of building gas infrastructure, even emergency gas infrastructure, seems like the direction entirely opposite to where we should be going. I have to agree with my colleague Deputy O'Gorman. The idea that this, probably one of the most significant energy infrastructure interventions in the State that are going to be considered in this D\u00e1il, is being guillotined after two hours and that we are spending two hours debating it at the last three Stages of the D\u00e1il process, is outrageous. It is unconscionable. The Government is also not accepting any of the very well-crafted amendments from colleagues, including my colleague Deputy Whitmore, to ensure it is in public ownership and to determine whether it is actually temporary or emergency.  For many people outside this Chamber, it feels as though we are going in the opposite direction and that climate change is not a priority for this Government. It is going to continue to do the same thing it has always done, which is to rely on fossil fuels, which will not bring us energy security and will not allow us to fulfil our climate goals or live up to the promise of climate action and its great opportunities. If we continue with this, it is going to be absolutely devastating. I implore the Government for its next Bill to please bring forward something that is going to incentivise renewables to be built. We have no operational offshore wind farms in this country. We had more 20 years ago. It is outrageous.  I am very disappointed with this Bill, but I am far more disappointed by the Government's reaction to the very worthwhile amendments from colleagues here and the guillotining of this debate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Today is 30 June. It should go down as the day of the bonfire of our climate targets. In this one swift afternoon, we will make real the Minister's softly saying just after Christmas this year that we would not reach our energy targets. What does that look like in reality? It looks like ramming through measures, with no parliamentary oversight, no proper debate and, in the case of the next Bill we will discuss, no economic impact assessment, which will mean we are not coming close to meeting our climate targets because they are being ignored. We now have this climate change legislation. Every time we raised previously, whether we would reach our climate targets, the answer was not to worry because we have legally binding targets and, therefore, we will meet them because it is the law, and we have to meet the law. Now we are just disapplying the law to anything to do with climate. We are disapplying the law from LNG, data centres and Dublin Airport. If anything is actually polluting, we are told the climate targets do not apply to that and not to worry about that. It is a joke.  We are all expecting the world to go along with the idea that we are all following the science and doing what we need to do when the Government is absolutely in hock to fossil fuel companies, the big airlines, Donald Trump and the people who are responsible for destroying our planet and hoping that people just stay asleep. That is what this two-hour debate is about, what the next two-hour debate is about and what I would say the two-hour debate after that, with respect to AI, is about too. It is about avoiding a real airing of the issues here and hoping that people do not notice that this Government is utterly abandoning all climate commitments, in this case basically in order to satisfy Donald Trump.  Who will pay for that? Our children and grandchildren will pay for it. We see the impact of climate change, even in Europe, where people are dying as a result of extreme heat. In a more immediate sense, people will pay with euro from their pockets. This thing will cost \u20ac1 billion or more. Who will pay for that? The public will pay by a household levy on energy bills. The public will pay for this LNG development. The Government is locking in fossil fuels. That is the consequence of investing in fossil fuel infrastructure. We should not be investing in any fossil fuel infrastructure at all. It flies in the face of the science. The Government is locking in not just any fossil fuel infrastructure but the dirtiest possible fossil fuel infrastructure because, ultimately, this is about fracked gas coming from the USA.  The Climate Change Advisory Council told the Government that further expansion of fossil fuel infrastructure through an LNG terminal will commit Ireland to further fossil fuel lock-in. It told the Government and it is simply ignoring the council. This is not dealing with the issue of energy security. It is making us reliant on Donald Trump for energy security, or the next US Administration.  The consequence is devastating. I put on the record now the hazards that are present here. I quote Stop Shannon LNG, which stated:  The importing of LNG is associated with hazards such as gas explosions, threatening local communities.  A key risk in LNG facilities is an uncontrolled release of a cryogenic, toxic, or flammable fluid. This can include liquid releases that form a pool on the ground or water and ignite, creating a potentially long-lasting pool fire.  That is on the Minister of State and this Government. The disastrous effects of locking us into fossil fuels and tearing up all of our targets is also on the Government. I think energy security is the Trojan horse. The Government wraps up LNG and says it is energy security. We were not originally told and people will not understand this. The whole terminal has to be emptied six times a year, so a large portion of the gas currently used in this country will end up being fracked gas. It is a Trojan horse. The Government is not excluding commercial developments in this Bill. The original argument was not to worry because it would only be this one emergency reserve, and it would just sit there. That has moved to being something that will sit there and be emptied six times a year, and the Bill is open to it being moved even further. If the Government was serious about the issue of energy security, it would be investing in battery storage, interconnectors, and different forms of renewable energy that work in different weather conditions, including wind, solar, hydro and so on.  What is this about? It is about being friendly to Donald Trump. This is a key ask in terms of the tensions between US imperialism and the EU. He basically had two asks. One was to buy more energy and the second was to buy more of our weapons. This is about appeasing Donald Trump. It is also about a matter related to not the next Bill but the one after that, the AI Bill, which is saying to big tech companies not to worry about all the energy usage, that they have a green light to go and use as much energy as they want for their data centres and that we will burn more and more fossil fuels to facilitate data centres. The idea that we can continue on this track of expanded energy usage, in the best case scenario simply uses up the extra renewable capacity that we are adding, or in the worst case scenario, the vista that is being opened here for commercial LNG and what is happening in many data centres around the country that we will burn gas. In this case, we will burn fracked gas as a consequence.  I am interested in the Minister of State's response. The main thing is that we can agree or disagree on any of these arguments. That is fine. It is a disgrace not to allow us to debate the Bill, not to have a Committee Stage that can go through it properly, not to give proper time on Report Stage and not to allow us to get through the vast majority of the amendments that we have before us. It is a disgrace and it is a conscious and cynical move by the Government. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I am glad to get the opportunity to welcome that Shannon Energy has got approval to bring in and store gas, and to give us another option. We have a duty to the taxpayers and the people in every county, including Kerry, to deliver energy to them at the cheapest rate possible. I have said here to the Minister of State on many occasions that since we closed Bord na M\u00f3na, the cost of electricity has gone up each day. The worst mistake that any Government made was to close it down in one go before we were assured that we had enough energy options, such as more wind turbines or whatever it is. We could be deriving more energy from our rivers. We are deprived of and stopped from doing that. The Sweeney's in Kilgarvan generated their own electricity back in the mid-1930s, and the O'Shea's in Kenmare generated it for the town of Kenmare around the same time. We are not allowed to go near a river to do anything like that now. We cannot do anything like that now.  What is happening here in case people do not know is that for the past number of years, we have been buying gas at its dearest price, because it is only coming from one route, from north east of us. That is why we are paying more for electricity. The other reason is that we have an energy regulator that is not accountable. Talking about climate targets, I know and many people know, although they are afraid to say it, that no matter what we do on this Earth, we will not change the weather.  The weather has been changing for centuries. In the 12th and 13th centuries, it changed from warm to cold. In the 15th and 16th centuries, massive amounts of rain fell. In the 1740s, we had a famine. A third of our people were wiped out because it never stopped raining for two years. There were no combustible engines at that time. There were far fewer cattle. In 1896, 12 acres of bog were washed down 12 miles into the lakes of Killarney from Gneevgullia and blocked every bridge on the way down. In the 1890s, there were 11 men in a field in the Clydagh Valley making up hay. Before they knew what they were, they were all washed down the river in a flash and into the lakes of Killarney. Those are true facts. There have been storms and nights of big winds at all those different times. I have the dates. They are facts. There was no human intervention at that time. Humans could not be blamed for the activity that changed the weather. A lot of people would want to realise that.  A report has come out from some scientist in Europe. I do not see the Government coming forward with it. It depicts that a lot of what the climatologists are saying is wrong and that the figures they are going on are totally and absolutely wrong. I will bring that report to the House as soon as it is put into my hands.  I do welcome, after many false dawns, that Shannon LNG will get the green light to move ahead. That will mean a lot for Kerry, especially the northern part of the county. It will also mean a lot for parts of Clare that the Minister of State represents. It will mean a lot of employment and help to encourage people to stay in Kerry and Clare and, more important than anything else, to stay in our country and to vote confidence in it by staying here.  We need other options for energy. Until we have enough wind power and ways of storing the energy that is created by wind turbines, we need an alternative in the meantime. People are under savage pressure. Members of this House cannot say, on the one hand, that the cost of living has gone up and, on the other, ask what the Government or anyone else is doing about it. The cost of energy is the cause of all the trouble. People on the roads are buying petrol and diesel. People at home are buying home heating oil and gas to keep themselves warm. People are entitled - this generation is as entitled as any to stay warm.  It is a fright to God to think that old people are afraid to put sods of turf on the fire. At the same time, bombs and drones are going off every day and lighting up the skies in the Middle East, Ukraine and Russia. We are telling people here that it is wrong to be burning or cutting turf. We have gone stone mad out of our minds altogether when we are telling the people those kinds of stories.  In case that the Deputies do not know it, people are talking about climate change and all the money that is going into it. We are narrowing roads for the sake of climate change. We are widening footpaths and building cycleways. No one is cycling because after they travel a few hundred yards or a mile on these cycleways, they must go onto an ordinary and narrow road to get to their homes. That does not make any sense. We narrowed a national secondary road a while back. As Councillor Johnny Healy-Rae said at a recent meeting of Kerry County Council, we have made a bohereen out of the national secondary road that starts off in Killarney and goes around the Ring of Kerry. Two vehicles of any kind cannot pass each other on that road now without their wing mirrors striking each other. That is what we have done in the name of climate change. These are the ridiculous things.  I especially want to recognise the fact that Shannon LNG has been given the green light after so many false dawns. Many individuals and companies have put so much money into that over a number of years. Those involved invested \u20ac60 million in it. That was money that people were prepared to put into it and that they had worked hard for. They saw that this was a way of helping our country. At least we will have it. If people can come forward with other ideas for creating energy, they should please do so. No one here is stopping them from doing that, but do not make people pay any more for energy than what they are paying for it at present. It is going up by 16% and 18%. Then, just to prove that there is no regulator, some other company dropped it by 12%. There is no law or order in the regulation of the cost of electricity at present. The poor people who go on the road in the mornings are paying a massive amount as a result of carbon tax being added to the cost of fuel. Those people go out on the roads to get to work or to deliver stuff in lorries, whether it is materials for housebuilding or foodstuffs for supermarkets, and it is costing them massive money.  We could be doing a lot better and a lot more in respect of the cost of energy. We have oil off of west Cork and gas off the Kerry coast. We are not being allowed to tap into either. If we bring it from the nearest point, the poor people at home will pay for it. It is time we copped on and listened to other people, because there are things other than climate change that need to be addressed. It is fine if everything else is sorted out, but people are being driven into the ground with the cost of living. No matter how much they earn, they have nothing left for to pay for houses and for the energy to heat them or for the costs related to getting to work. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  An Teachta Healy-Rae should correct the record. It was not a bit of rain that caused the Famine. The failure of one crop did not cause the Famine that decimated----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I said the 1740----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  ----- our population. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I am sorry; I must clarify this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  Shame on you. You are a disgrace. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I said 1740, not 1840. There were two famines. There was the second one that the Deputy is talking about with the potatoes. The 1740 famine was created by rain that never stopped falling for two years. Those are the facts and that is the truth. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  Deputy Healy-Rae can support our next amendment, because it is relevant. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  The Deputy can support me when I am right. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment (Deputy Timmy Dooley)  I am thankful for the opportunity to respond to the strongly held views of many Opposition Members. There is a bit of divergence between some of them, and I must respect that. People's views are strongly held. We might argue over the detail.  What I want to reflect about this Bill that the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and I have brought forward is that it is purely about energy security. Maybe we do not all accept it, but a lot of people in this House and in society generally accept that we need to transition away, for a couple of reasons, from our dependence on imported fossil fuels. There are the climate emissions targets. The latter are recognised as an important aspect of this. I must also reflect on what Deputy Healy-Rae has just said. We might have a difference of opinion about how we get there, but I know what he is talking about in terms of the cost of energy. It is my strongly held view and that of the Government that if we bring more renewables onto the grid from our own resources - from wind and solar within our remit - we will reduce our dependence on imported fossil fuels. That will ultimately reduce the price and benefit everyone across the country.  For those who are looking at it from a different angle in terms of the reduction in carbon dioxide emissions and the impact that is having on climate change, I refer to the fact that this is not going to be gas traded into the marketplace. It is a storage facility that will be there in the event of a rupture or a disruption to the supply through the interconnectors from the North Sea via the UK and Scotland. Principally, it is storage. It will be a State-owned and State-controlled facility. It is not a market initiative. It is not an attempt to use LNG as a price lever to compete with the supplies that are already there. It is not aimed at creating a market tension that would reduce prices and, therefore, make us more dependent. It is really just about storage. I understand where Members are coming from, but it does not and will not add one extra element of carbon dioxide emissions. In the event of there being a disruption, it will replace gas that would already have been provided into the market.  This is about critical infrastructure and ensuring that our hospitals and other key facilities that are dependent on gas, principally for heat, will be able to remain in operation for whatever length of time it might take to repair the supply line.  I also take the points made by Deputies Murphy and Ahern on why this legislation is being rushed through in an emergency way. We are already making significant headway in relation to our plan-led approach to the capture of wind off our shoreline. We had the recent designation through the designated maritime area plan, DMAP, process off the south-east coast. We had a very successful auction. Where other countries that are attempting to capture wind off their shorelines or in their seas have been unable to get bidders, we had three or four bidders for the auction in December. Some 900 MW have been secured. The process is now going through the final permissions aspect. It is working really well. There are three other suitable locations within that overall designated area. They will go to auction soon. There is interest from other companies in this regard.  The Government is working really hard. The Minister, Deputy O\u2019Brien, myself and others are in regular contact with the marketplace to encourage investment and to show that Ireland has a long-term plan in place. We are working on a national DMAP or designation of more suitable sites around our coastline that have the capacity to generate up to 15 GW of electricity out to 2040. That is the kind of approach we are taking. I understand the politics of it, but it is unfair to say that we are ignoring the opportunity regarding renewables. In recognising that it is a slow process, we are derisking it for those investors who are going to come in. We are doing the mapping and collecting the data ,and we will be providing it to those entities as part of the auction process.  Unlike what happened with the phase 1 projects, which were effectively developer led, we have moved to take control. That work is already done and we are working through it but it would be foolhardy to just say that because we have a plan to capture effectively 20 GW of wind energy, and some additional solar on shore out to 2040, we can somehow ignore the necessity to store gas as we transition away from the use of fossil fuels. I understand what Deputies Ahern and Murphy said about battery storage. It is there but it will not be sufficient in the short term. They also spoke about other liquid fuels. The Department and the Government are working on a hydrogen strategy, so we are working towards identifying other solutions. The ESB recently published a report which effectively said we cannot get to net zero by 2050 by renewables alone. We have to use liquid fuels, and hydrogen would be the obvious one in that regard. That creates huge opportunities, because we will have a quantum of electricity generated from renewables. Generally, the wind blows better at night when demand is less. Rather than grounding or not utilising that electricity, it can effectively be converted to hydrogen or ammonia in a more stable way. There are opportunities for exports as well as storage in that regard. That is the longer term plan. Work is being done on that.  I accept that there is an investment in infrastructure, but I do not accept the point that we are locking ourselves in. If we had put this out to the marketplace and asked for outside investment in a market-driven initiative where you would be building hard infrastructure, that accusation would stand up. In this instance, however, I cannot accept it because we are talking about a piece of floating infrastructure. There will be some onshore infrastructure to be built, which will be relatively minor in both overall and cost terms. The big element is the ship and its location. When we get to a point where we do not need that back-up storage and we either have enough batteries in place or are generating enough electricity to be able to look to hydrogen storage, we can move that piece of fossil fuel kit on to another location, dispense with it or sunset it.  Another thing I would like to mention in more general terms, because I think will arise in respect of some of the other amendments, is that this Bill is about getting moving really quickly on the permissions that are necessary to get the infrastructure in place. As stated on Second Stage, the operation will be dealt with in another Bill. What the Deputies\u2019 are trying to stitch in here by means of their amendments might be better addressed in the context of that legislation. This Bill is just about permissions. Hopefully, that will give Deputies an understanding of what the Government is doing. We are not in a position to accept the amendments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I want to bring the Minister of State back to something specific which matters more than the amendment I tabled. During pre-legislative scrutiny, the joint committee made a recommendation which states:  The Minister shall authorise a transparent and publicly available cost-benefit analysis not less than 60 days prior to any decision which shall inform the approval process of the proposed development.  It recommended that this analysis should have regard to the adopted carbon budgets and sectoral ceilings under the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Acts, the most recent climate action plan and the Government-approved electrification pathways. I had the backing of the committee on this. The Minister of State indicated that the Bill is just for planning. Why not put this into the Bill now in order that we, as legislators, can see a cost-benefit analysis done, particularly as the only publicly available one was done in 2023? In the context of a \u20ac900 million investment, it would be of much more benefit if we could see how many more GW or MW might possibly be added at multiple ports. We know Belfast is one of the only ports on the island that can handle large-scale offshore renewable energy, ORE. I urge the Minister of State to bring this to the Department. We have not seen that, so it is difficult for us to go in blindfolded. All the committee members received a letter saying that while the Bill before us will provide an expedited planning consent pathway, the next Bill will, as the Minister of State outlined, set out the operation, use and potential cost.  With a \u20ac900 million piece of energy infrastructure, we need to know what is in scope and how much could have been done by means of an alternative approach. I am familiar with the argument about energy security and lower cost energy- and the Minister of State can correct me if I am wrong \u2013 in the first 24 hours of the Iran-US war, global LNG prices rose by 43%. If we are looking to secure energy, surely having our own low-cost ORE batteries would help. I like the fact that other Deputies mentioned my batteries. I would have loved for all of them to have come to my meeting in the audiovisual room. Some did not attend. Representatives from Energy Storage Ireland were there. They spoke about the difficulties the company is having at the moment. I welcome the announcements by the Department in relation changing the cost of battery chargers. That is brilliant. Sodium batteries are the best batteries. These will be how we can decentralise our grid. They need to be looked at as part of any cost-benefit analysis. That is not a radical ask, it would hold us to a correct standard.  Will this matter be given the serious consideration it deserves? The members of the climate committee deserve to see this information. It was noted that while it will be taken into consideration, it is not relevant to this Bill. I am not opposed to the Bill in principle, but I would urge that we get a cost-benefit analysis because we are being asked to approve a framework that cedes significant planning and environmental disapplication powers worth hundreds of millions of euro. The estimated cost is \u20ac900 million, but other things were estimated at \u20ac900 million previously and ended up costing \u20ac2.5 billion. In that context, I ask that we take a good approach and that a cost-benefit analysis be carried out. It could strengthen the case. I might welcome this with more open arms if a cost-benefit analysis were done. I asked about this and was informed yesterday that Annex IV C is the most up-to-date analysis which considers the estimated cost of this Bill in comparison with the alternative mitigation options considered.  There was no more detailed cost-benefit analysis publicly available, beyond the one conducted and the preliminary business case. I ask that it is issued to us as legislators as we are making a huge decision on the infrastructure of our country. I would like if that could be taken back to the Department. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I will try to be swift, so we can move on. We have heard the same speech from Deputy Danny Healy-Rae on a number of occasions, effectively denying human-caused climate change by saying we have had storms and extreme weather events in the past. Yes, we have had storms and extreme weather events in the past. That is not evidence against human-created climate change. The evidence is very clear. There is a clear scientific consensus. Deputy Healy-Rae says he has heard that some paper exists that proves the climatologists and climate scientists are all wrong and when he gets his hands on it he will bring it here. He obviously has not read the paper. He knows it exists somewhere out there in the ether, and he trusts it because it tells him what he wants to hear, which is that climate change is not happening. People know themselves. The past 11 years have been the 11 hottest years on record. We know that decade after decade, for six decades now, each has been hotter than the one before it. We know the oceans are heating up and that they are becoming increasingly acidic. We know, and people know from their own experience, that we have more and more extreme weather events. It is not just people's own experience. It is also tracked. You could go on and on but this is the settled scientific consensus.  To be honest, I am less concerned about the climate denialism of Deputy Healy-Rae. He is entitled to his opinion. I think he is wrong, and I think the scientific consensus really says that there is no basis for what he is saying. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  You are entitled to your opinion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I am less concerned about that. It is fine.  The main thing I have a problem with is that we have a Government that did not really make an effort there to object to the climate denialism but will, on occasion, object to climate denialism and will say it recognises the science. We have a Government that says climate change is real and accepts that climate change is caused by fossil fuels. It accepts that climate change is a consequence of the greenhouse gas emissions. It says we are going to sign up to legally binding climate targets because we take this seriously and care about the future of our planet, and then it totally ignores it all. That is worse in a way. If Deputy Healy-Rae were in charge and said he did not believe in any of this climate change nonsense, that it had nothing to do with human activity, that we were going to go full steam ahead for fracked gas and were going to drill for fracked gas here and asked what the problem is with more fossil fuel usage, that, in a way, is logically coherent. If fossil fuels are not the problem, then what is the problem? However, the Government accepts that fossil fuels are the problem but nonetheless says full steam ahead for LNG. It nonetheless says full steam ahead with expansion of Dublin Airport and full steam ahead for data centres and AI. I really think that is worse. It knows what it is doing is going to destroy the planet and hurt people in the pocket here and now but nonetheless it is going full steam ahead and will not even allow a proper debate on these issues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  I move amendment No. 3:  In page 7, between lines 22 and 23, to insert the following:  \u201c \u201cemergency\u201d means a situation where the State is experiencing a significant and protracted physical disruption of gas supply, or other catastrophic deterioration of the supply situation, and where\u2014  (c) all relevant market-based measures have been fully implemented, exhausted, and proven insufficient to meet gas demand, and  (d) non-market-based measures must be introduced to safeguard gas supplies to protected customers, in accordance with the criteria for an Emergency Level under Article 11(1)(c) of Regulation (EU) 2017\/1938.  For the avoidance of doubt, an emergency does not include localised network constraints, or routine seasonal increases in gas demand where physical supply remains available;\u201d. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 4, 16 and 19 are related and will be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I move amendment No. 4:  In page 8, after line 39, to insert the following:  \" \"hydraulically fractured gas\u201d means liquefied natural gas, or natural gas in any other form, that has been produced, in whole or in part, by means of hydraulic fracturing within the meaning of section 5A of the Petroleum and Other Minerals Development Act 1960;\"  This amendment is about fracked gas, which is not something we have spoken about yet in the debate. The amendment has been tabled with a view to trying to be constructive and to building more safeguards into the use of this facility. It relates to consenting, in that this is the type of product that will be going through a licensed or designated facility and the Government should be cognisant of what is going through, and the State needs to be cognisant of what is being used, in these facilities. If this facility is going to exist, we want the gas being used in it to be the least destructive gas possible.  We know that LNG, particularly when sourced from the US as we suspect the LNG for this facility is going to be, is usually derived from fracking but this practice is not defined in the Bill before us. This is why I have included a definition of \"hydraulically fractured gas\" as meaning \"liquefied natural gas, or natural gas in any other form, that has been produced, in whole or in part, by means of hydraulic fracturing within the meaning of section 5A of the Petroleum and Other Minerals Development Act 1960\". That Act defines hydraulic fracturing and, as we know, an amendment to that Act in 2017 banned the practice of fracking in Ireland, although not the importation of fracked gas. At the time, the Minister of State spoke of Fianna F\u00e1il's well-known opposition to fracking and acknowledged the detrimental environmental impacts.  Unfortunately, a subsequent Government policy statement introducing a de facto ban on the importation of fracked gas was overturned for the purposes of developing this LNG facility. The Government is willingly enabling an incredibly destructive environmental practice so long as others have to deal with the cost. One of the issues we had with the overturning of the ban on the importation of fracked gas was that it was not restricted solely to this facility, which we understand to be a State-led and operated facility. It has essentially created a free-for-all for other commercial operators to import fracked gas as well.  We know just how destructive fracked gas is. While burning it produces less carbon dioxide than coal, the extraction processes release enormous amounts of methane, a greenhouse gas that is up to 86 times more potent than carbon dioxide over 20 years.  Deputy Danny Healy-Rae said earlier to stop talking about climate targets when we are talking about these types of facilities. Okay, but then let us talk about something else. Let us talk about human health and human rights when it comes to fracked gas. We know that North American fracking operations for oil and gas are driving the current surge in global levels of methane. We know that methane has contributed approximately 40% of all global warming to date. We know that fracking is so damaging to the environment. It releases toxic air pollution, contaminates water and results in earthquakes, as well as significant other public health impacts. It is an environmental injustice, with injuries not borne equally by all.  There is a reason we banned it here. It is more than a little hypocritical that we would ban it in our own country and for our people but then allow its importation from other countries from where maybe the effects will not be felt so keenly as they are here. We also know that the liquefaction and transportation of natural gas as liquefied natural gas, LNG, raises its greenhouse gas emissions even further, by another 30%. This is because of the need for evaporative cooling and venting and because flaring is used to control pressure during regasification.  Just today, the UN Secretary General, Ant\u00f3nio Guterres, released a call to action on methane. This all relates back to the imported fracked gas. I am referring to the methane being released. The Secretary General said that methane has been responsible for nearly one third of global warming to date and that it remains significantly underprioritised in climate action and political decision-making. He also said that, \"Cutting methane emissions is one of the fastest, cheapest and most effective opportunities to slow global warming in the near term while delivering cleaner air, stronger crop yields, improved health and major economic benefits.\" The UN wants countries worldwide to make methane more measurable, reportable and verifiable. It is looking for transparency and empirical data in relation to reporting methane emissions and so on.  All this goes back to this being a regressive move by the State to be facilitating the import of this highly damaging fracked gas, which releases so much methane. At the same time, we are disapplying section 15 of the climate Act from all of this. This means there is even less transparency and less counting of the emissions that this facility will generate. We know that the CEOs of LNG companies would not live beside the facilities their companies build. We can talk about jobs and the economic benefits of all these facilities but they do, worldwide, have serious human health and human rights consequences that I do not think this Government is taking seriously enough. This is why I am proposing this amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  After the last general election, there was almost an unseemly rush to be out to congratulate the Government by some people for its change of mind in relation to fracked gas. It comes down to the basic issue of fairness and a just transition. We have heard about the issues in respect of destroying communities in the United States. Affordability of energy is also fundamental and is something that should be prioritised. Unfortunately, however, it has often been treated as an afterthought by this Government and previous Governments.  When the strategic gas reserve was first announced, it was said that ongoing operational costs would be paid for through the introduction of a new levy or by being integrated into an existing one. In other words, ordinary people will foot the bill, or it is the intention that they will foot the bill, for the Government\u2019s failure to guarantee our energy security over many years. Families across the State are already dealing with some of the highest energy prices in Europe. I do not need to go into this topic again today. Ordinary people paying their bills, ordinary householders, did not design this broken system. They should not, therefore, be forced to pay for a solution and a problem that the Government has created.  The amendments that we brought forward, and the subsequent amendments, are clear that the Government must guarantee there is no socialisation of costs into the bills of households or SMEs. There should be a requirement for the regulator to assess the full cost of the impact on households. We have had other legislation giving more power to the regulator to hold energy companies to account, for example. There should also be an obligation on the Minister to mitigate the costs because energy security cannot come at the expense of affordability, given how tardy the Government has been with offshore and renewable energy over many years. The Government is supposed to be a safety net for people and not the other way around.  This infrastructure, if it is strategic, must be State-led. Unfortunately, this State has less investment in offshore wind in our own waters than the French state and the Norwegian state. There should be more public involvement to move towards energy affordability, because private companies are obviously going to have to make increased profits year after year. If this infrastructure is State-led, publicly owned and operated in the public interest, that could go some way to reducing energy bills. Otherwise, it is hard to guarantee it. Without the guarantee of this being State-led, it could - and we have seen it in the previous amendments - risk opening the door to commercial LNG development and private profit. Energy security is not a commercial venture. Energy security, keeping the lights on, is a fundamental responsibility of the State. While this reserve has been justified as an emergency measure, it is important, as we have seen in the last amendment, that any strategic gas reserve should be for emergency use only. It should also not become permanent by default, and this is why we proposed the ten-year limit. The reserve must not be used to drive further fossil fuel lock-in. As we mentioned earlier, and as was discussed, we use 80% imported fuels.  We also have an amendment to require annual reporting to the Oireachtas. Without this, the infrastructure creates its own momentum. We see that it will take five years to build this facility and that it will be in operation for ten years, at least, so that is 15 years in total, so there is a very big danger of lock-in.  This Bill, as we said previously, is being rushed through without proper scrutiny, and this is unacceptable. Our amendments require independent assessment that this approach is necessary, proportionate and the best available option, and that there be an ongoing biannual review. Crucially, a future assessment of alternatives, including renewables, interconnections, storage and demand-side measures, should also be included in the Bill. The legislation is being rushed through, however, so the reality is that this is unlikely to happen. It is not good enough. Communities are being sidelined, and public consultation and democratic accountability, it seems, have not been used and are not going to happen. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I wish to speak in favour of Deputy Ahern\u2019s amendment. It is important that we focus on the issue of the use of LNG through this facility and, as such, into Ireland\u2019s energy network. Liquefied natural gas is about two thirds more carbon-emitting than traditional natural gas. We are introducing it into our system now, as a number of speakers have already pointed out, in a context where liquefied natural gas was banned through the ban on fracked gas brought in by the previous Government in 2021. This ban applied to the use of fracked gas in all circumstances, whether by State infrastructure or by private infrastructure. That ban was important. One of the first things this Government did was to remove that ban, which my colleague, Eamon Ryan, introduced. That ban was removed on fracked gas being used by either State infrastructure or private infrastructure. We heard Deputy Danny Healy-Rae celebrating the consequences of the removal of that ban on fracked gas.  Not all LNG used in the world is fracked but the vast majority of the LNG that comes from the US, which the Government has indicated it would regard as its primary supplier for the facility in Clare, comes from the fracking process, which makes the carbon emissions from LNG even worse. We are tying a new source of energy, LNG, into our energy system. This is a system that was shown not to give security of supply, as demonstrated by the closure of the Ras Laffan gas terminal at the start of the Iran war, and shown not to result in affordability. A 46% increase in the cost of LNG in one day was prompted by that war. LNG is one of the most carbon-intensive versions of gas that exist in the world right now.  We are achieving this in the exact same legislation where we are disapplying the analysis of the climate Act to LNG infrastructure. Section 33, which I and others are opposing, will disapply the tests and analysis under section 15 of the climate Act. To think that the newest piece of fossil fuel infrastructure built in this country will not have basic climate analysis applied to it \u2013 climate analysis that almost all parties in this House agreed on only a couple of years ago \u2013 shows how far the Government has retreated on the issue of climate. A fundamental gap in this legislation is that a new piece of fossil fuel infrastructure will not have this analysis applied to it.  By creating this exemption, we are actually building a norm. That norm will be seen in the legislation we will be debating in a couple of minutes, which also has the exemption. That norm was seen in the Critical Infrastructure Bill that this House passed a number of weeks ago. Time and again, this Government is exempting some of the biggest fossil fuel-polluting proposals from an analysis under the climate Act. It is killing the climate Act with 100 or 1,000 small exemptions. It is a very deliberate process, a process we have seen repeated many times. For this reason, my party and I cannot support the legislation before us. It does not give us the energy security we deserve. It does not give us the energy affordability that families need, and it dramatically undermines the decarbonisation agenda that the Government should be following. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Timmy Dooley  I reiterate that there is very little between our understandings of the negative or harmful impact that gas, whether it be natural gas, LNG or any form of methane, has on our climate and on the environment. As I set out in response to the other amendments, the Government has made it abundantly clear that we have to pivot away from the use of fossil fuels. We are doing so and have a strategy for doing so. It would be foolhardy in the extreme if, while pivoting away, we failed to recognise that we need a backstop of energy security. Deputy O'Gorman, who performed very well in a previous Government, knows that in November 2023 there was recognition that we had to have an energy security component in place for the future. It was accepted at that stage and we are building on that. I refer to Energy Security in Ireland to 2030.  All sides of the House are fully in agreement that fossil fuels are damaging and bad and that we have got to wean ourselves off them quickly. We are working very hard to capture renewable energy, whether wind or solar, and we are doing it in a plan-led and strategic way so that we can, from climate change and emissions perspectives, rid ourselves of fossil fuels while also putting in place a means of controlling our own energy mix into the future. The State will control it and it will be within our own ambit, so that we will not be dependent on regimes outside the normal zones of Europe. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  The time permitted for this debate having expired, I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the D\u00e1il of this day: \"That in respect of each of the sections undisposed of, the section is hereby agreed to in Committee, the Title is hereby agreed to in Committee, the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without amendment, Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.\" "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Bill will now be sent to the Seanad. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/70","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/70\/dail\/3_sub","houseCode":"dail","stage":"3_sub","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages","counts":{"speechCount":36,"speakerCount":13},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Section 1 agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"SECTION 2"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 1, 12 and 13 are related and may be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I move amendment No. 1:  In page 6, between lines 29 and 30, to insert the following:  \u201c \u201cinternational connectivity\u201d means the range and frequency of scheduled passenger and cargo air services operating to and from Dublin Airport, having regard to\u2014  (a) the number of direct routes available from Dublin Airport to destinations outside the State,  (b) the number of carriers operating such routes, and  (c) the frequency of services on those routes;\u201d.  There are a number of references to international connectivity in this Bill. I raised this on Second Stage last week and the Minister thought it was amusing that I did not understand the definition of \"international connectivity\". I understand a plain English reading of it but the phrase permeates the Bill and it is used by the Government as a justification for the lifting of this cap. The Government says the Bill is to increase our international connectivity. With 32 million or more flights already leaving the country to international destinations, the question is what is enough international connectivity.  With amendment No. 1, I propose to insert a definition in the Bill. We are told all the time that connectivity is key to our success as a nation and that, as an island nation, we cannot leave ourselves stranded and we need international connectivity. However, it strikes me we already have quite a lot of international connectivity with 30-odd million flights going through Dublin Airport already. If we are going to increase flights on this basis, it is important we have metrics by which we can measure international connectivity and it is important to define it because the level of emissions associated with higher or lower levels of international connectivity should be determined by the metrics used.  This falls under the transport brief but it has a massive climate consequence. It is worth noting that only 5% of the population of the entire world has ever taken a flight. We are in an incredibly privileged position here. This relates to climate justice and our obligations to others in a world where 95% of people on the globe have never been on a plane and the Minister is now proposing potentially to double the number of flights from Dublin Airport. Therefore, throwing around a phrase like \"international connectivity\" gives the Minister carte blanche to continually increase the number of people going through the airport and the number of flights being taken and that is not necessarily a good thing.  We need to talk about demand management in international aviation. There is no such thing as sustainable aviation fuel. It is never going to happen and the airline industry acknowledges that, so we have to try to have some metrics for and control over the number of flights in the country.  Furthermore, this is specifically for Dublin. There is no talk here about balanced regional development. This is all about Dublin Airport. The Minister talks about sustainable development but there is nothing sustainable about not having any cap. It is not as though the Minister is replacing the current cap with another level of cap. This will just be an absolute free for all.  My other amendment in the grouping, amendment No. 12, is to address a provision that essentially gives an open invitation to airlines to bully the Government and talk down Ireland if they perceive there to be some inhibitor of their commercial interests in Dublin. It gives licence to a Minister for Transport to change planning conditions where they are perceived to be potentially damaging to \" the international reputation of the State in respect of air transport\". It is extremely open-ended, entirely unfalsifiable and there is no objective standard for reputational damage. There is no evidence threshold or definition. The provision could be invoked on the basis of adverse commentary by Michael O'Leary, for example. We are essentially enshrining corporate bullying of the State in this law. That is why I want to delete that line. It gives carte blanche to airlines to talk down the country and say they are not happy that it is sufficiently internationally connected, so they will pull all their flights and that Ireland has a terrible reputation for international connectivity or whatever the buzzword is. It will essentially allow airlines to bully the State and Ministers to use that bullying as an excuse to raise the cap again and again, without heed to any of our climate obligations, either our domestic climate targets or international ones.  These emissions do count. Even though we do not count international aviation emissions, they do go somewhere and these actions have consequences whether the Government likes it or not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  The Minister is moving this with undue haste before the summer. It is absolutely wrong that a Bill of this importance is being guillotined after two hours and many of the amendments probably will not get a fair hearing.  I will comment on this grouping of amendments, which talk about connectivity. We made these points on Second Stage. Balanced regional development has gone out the window. We also have a duty to connect the west of Ireland and other airports, such as those in Cork, Shannon, Mayo and so on. The airlines are delighted with this because, potentially, everyone will fly into Dublin and then be ferried on another plane to an outlying area because most people visit locations in the west of Ireland.  The feeling of many residents in the area is that what is being attempted is to turn Dublin Airport into a European airline hub like Frankfurt, Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle and Heathrow airports. One of the principal reasons residents contest this is the lack of a night-time cap. All the main airline hubs have night-time restrictions. The combined total for the four airports I mentioned is less than that for Dublin Airport on its own and the night-time flight caps are not imposed at all in Dublin Airport. Planes do not make money when parked so the airlines are dying to get rid of the cap.  I spoke to residents earlier today. Turning to the second amendment in this grouping, there are international duties and laws under environmental laws. If airport capacity is being increased, one would imagine that a fund would be set up for things like sound insulation and relocation for those who want to move, as some do. I have been told - I would like the Minister to clarify this - that has not happened and that residents have been forced to go to court because he has not met them about this. That is the very least that needs to be done.  For example, the planning for real process was one of the initiatives that was set up. It was to get an expert planner to discuss it. The residents say they cannot get funding for it and that the Minister will not meet them.  There are people who will be impacted by this increase, should it go ahead tonight, who are willing to relocate. Thornton Hall is an area that has been mentioned. It was not developed in the way anticipated in years gone by, and it could be an area where homes are built to facilitate people who want to move. All of these are very practical things that need to be ironed out with residents if this goes ahead, which, of course, it should not. What about the best insulation and air conditioning? Mechanical ventilation is mentioned, but people are not able to open their windows any more. Think of the effect of the heat we had last week on residents who live near Dublin Airport who cannot open their windows. All those people should have proper air conditioning. Residents are considering a polluter pays fund. The airlines are going to be the polluters, and they should pay for these mitigation measures. This is standard under any international laws.  My area of Dublin West is obviously not the only part affected but Hollystown, Hollywoodrath and Portmarnock are going to have much increased flights. The Minister was on Fingal County Council at the same time as me when decisions were taken by local authorities to allow development at the outer limits of Dublin Airport. It is not that long ago. Now those people are going to find that the noise levels will be even more intolerable when the projected massive increase in passengers goes ahead. The night-time flights will be at least doubled. That is the estimate of many residents. Rather than 60, there will be 120. The aircraft noise competent authority is not fulfilling its brief.  What about all the arguments around us being in the middle of a heat dome? Europe is enduring the hottest temperatures it has ever had. We will probably be in the same situation with high temperatures again next week or the week after, and much more frequently. We should not be passing a Bill like this that increases the number of flights. We should be discouraging people from taking flights. We should be reducing the number of flights in light of the climate crisis. Instead, the Government is marketing Dublin Airport as a hub on a European scale. That is ludicrous because we do not have the transport infrastructure to facilitate such a thing. We do not have a light rail system. At the very least, the Minister has to commit to meeting residents in an open way and to cater for overall the impact that what is proposed will have on their lives if the Government rams the Bill through tonight. That is the very least that should be done. Residents are not even mentioned in the Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  My amendment No. 13 has been grouped with Deputy Ahern's amendment. I will not dwell on it, but the same point I made about the previous Bill also applies in respect of this one, namely the fact that only two hours have been provided for the Committee and Remaining Stages. Detailed issues have to be addressed, including climate, balanced regional development and the significant impact of noise pollution on people who reside in the vicinity of the airport. These are real issues in respect of which there is disagreement. Maybe if we had time to do this at the select committee, we could have found resolutions in respect of a small number of these issues. However, we have been denied the opportunity to do so on foot of the way this Bill is being rushed through the House. Again, this is the only example in this D\u00e1il of a Bill being rammed through on Committee and Remaining Stages. That is not acceptable, and it does not treat appropriately the issues so many TDs from all parties spoke about during pre-legislative scrutiny. Everyone was saying that it is terrible for the residents, that we are listening to them and that we want to help them. When a Bill is banged through the D\u00e1il in two hours, that is neither listening nor a genuine effort to help.  My amendment is intended to allow a future Minister to amend the passenger cap for pro-climate reasons. The Bill currently allows the Minister to intervene where the passenger cap is judged to cause serious economic or connectivity harm, but there is no equivalent situation should this Minister or a future Minister believe the number of passengers is causing significant environmental or climate harm. The purpose of my amendment is to recognise that there is a power, but it is a power that can be used in different ways. It recognises that there is a climate issue here. The Bill as drafted recognises one set of risks but not the other. It would be a reasonable compromise for the Minister to accept this amendment. In that case, the Bill would not be pro- or anti-cap; it would simply be future-proofed to allow a Minister to consider climate or environmental considerations in the same way as economic interests.  The question of how we deal with the 32 million passenger cap, which was put in as a planning condition initially, is of course central to what we are looking at here. Everybody recognises that flying is essential for an island nation, but how we deal with the situation caused by the 2007 planning application is what is at issue. Last year, just over 36 million passengers went through the airport in breach of the cap. The DAA has brought a planning application using the existing mechanisms in order to bring that up to 40 million. The Minister and his team floated the idea of 60 million passengers going through Dublin Airport in future, which would be equivalent to the numbers JFK Airport saw in 2024 and 2025. That is a huge scale. In this Bill, we are opening the door to any scale of development. It is not a planned or graduated increase; it is the removal of a cap to allow any number of flights to take place. Not even the DAA went that far in the planning application it submitted. That will have climate consequences, which will, no doubt, be addressed in later amendments, but it will also cause significant issues with increased noise in the area of the airport. Later, I will be talking about making reference to the noise abatement objective for Dublin Airport and including that in the Bill as one of the measures to try to provide some degree of reassurance to residents in the area.  The committee heard from the likes of Ryanair. In many situations, Michael O\u2019Leary has said that people knew what they were getting into when they bought houses in Swords, Malahide, Hollywoodrath and Dublin 15. That is an outrageous statement. People buy houses where they can afford to buy them. That is the nature of house purchasing in Ireland right now, and some people, if they could afford Kilmartin Grove or Hollywoodrath, chose to live there, whether that is in private purchase, affordable, social, cost-rental or build-to-rent homes. People do not have huge choice in where they have a home here right now because of the wider issues in our property market and sometimes people have to buy where the price matches their budget. That is an area which is already affected by a high number of flights and which is going to be further affected, especially if the exponential growth permitted under this legislation takes place. What is proposed is going to have a major impact, and it is not acceptable for the owners and beneficiaries of these large airlines to just dismiss people\u2019s very real concerns. This impacts my constituency. I have canvassed in the areas to which I refer and have heard the impact of noise on these households. That impact is only going to grow as a result of this Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Others have referred to the speed at which this legislation and the previous Bill on LNG are being fast-tracked through the D\u00e1il. There has not been sufficient time for debate or interrogation. Sufficient time has not been allocated to allow all Members to have input and, potentially, to make the legislation stronger and better, which is really what our job is.  It is interesting to see how quickly the Government can get certain legislation through the system. I wish there was an equal emphasis by the Government on getting other things delivered. Why are we not seeing similar speed, energy and focus to get additional battery storage up and running or the interconnector to France, which has been delayed, put in place? It has been repeated many times, but we have less offshore wind energy now than we did 20 years ago. I was on Brittas beach at the weekend enjoying the weather and looking at the seven pillars out in the Irish Sea. There are no turbines on them because they have been decommissioned.  The Minister spoke about the Government's priorities and where it spends its energy. It seems that this Government is spending its energy on pushing through solutions to problems that are being created because it has not done the work. The reason we are in this position is because it has not looked at the framework. It has not been strategic. Deputy Ahern referred to metrics in the context of his amendment. I absolutely agree with him. There is a similar thread going through this Bill and the previous Bill, and that is the need for robust analysis and strategic management.  We have a similar situation with data centres. Five years ago, I stood in this Chamber and asked for strategic management of data centres because the Government's approach of just rolling out the red carpet was going leave us in trouble. That has proven to be the case. We are there now. It is costing the State and domestic energy users a huge amount of money and is locking us into a very intensive, energy-reliant system. The position with LNG is similar. I do not think we have had a full analysis, review and evidence provided as to why we need an LNG reserve. Are there alternatives? Is there an alternative way to shore up our energy security? I believe there is.  I do not think there has been the necessary holistic analysis of the impact that lifting the cap will have. I do not believe that roads capacity was the correct mechanism to use in order to limit numbers at the airport. I do not believe that was ever the right approach. The question for us now is what is the correct metric to use to assess the airport. I do not think that level of analysis has been carried out. I mention that in one of my amendments. Has there been an economic analysis? Are we looking at regional development? Are we taking account emissions, noise pollution, the impact on residents or on housing in the area? When making long-term decisions of this nature, a level of work should go on behind scenes in the context of carrying out the relevant analysis and gathering the necessary evidence. I just do not think that has happened in this instance, and I do not believe it was done in respect of the previous Bill we discussed either.  I want to speak briefly to my amendment No. 13, which is in this group and which relates to our obligations. The State has obligations. The Minister signed up to them. He has agreed with our national obligations when it comes to climate. In fact, it was the previous Government brought forward the legislation in that regard. The majority of Deputies in the previous D\u00e1il supported that legislation. We all worked hard to make sure it was as strong as possible. We have European Union directives to which we have to adhere. We must also adhere to and be cognisant of international law. In the rush to get these major development investments over the line, the Minister is really just pushing aside all those obligations. Unfortunately, it should not and cannot work that way. We need to take these issues into account, because the Minister is not just making this decision for the next five years and keeping Michael O'Leary happy for the next five or ten years. This is something that will be with us for a long time. When it is done, the Minister needs to make sure that it is done right. There is an onus and an obligation on him to uphold all those directives and laws he has signed up to. It cannot be the case that he just closes his eyes and pretends he never did so or has workarounds, because it really just does not work that way. Essentially, it is stated in our climate objectives state that an authority has to have regard to them. I do not understand why the Minister is trying to override these basic measures and requirements that we have. This is something we will regret in the long term. I also want to raise point with the Minister that we need to be strategic about this. He has to have the analysis carried out. In this instance, he has not done so. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  It has already been said by others, but I am also struck by the pace at which this legislation has progressed and is progressing through the House to a point where it will reach completion this evening. It is fair to say that for the first 18 months of the lifetime of this Government, we have seen very little by way of legislation come through the House. Suddenly, however, we are under dramatic pressure to get this legislation through without any sort of real scrutiny. Providing such scrutiny is why we are all here. That begs the question as to who is writing this type of legislation and who is writing transport policy for this country. There are certain words in the Bill, which just reads like an advert for Ryanair. How does the Minister determine what connectivity is? What the amendment seeks to put in is a definition of that. Instead, we are going to have a situation where a future Minister will have to determine what takes priority and whether it will be connectivity or the climate. I have to hope that future Ministers will understand that an obligation is not a choice. An obligation is something that we must do, and to exempt what is proposed from the provisions of section 15 of the climate Act is quite preposterous.  Last week, I raised with the Minister the fact that the crux of this legislation, in the first instance, is not necessarily to do with climate; rather, it is do with local infrastructure. That remains the case. Yet, here we are knowing more. When we know more, surely we have to do more. In that regard, we now propose to place a level of power that is centralised in a ministerial order. That concerns me, and it should concern everyone watching. We have bodies in place that are statutorily responsible for land use the planning of infrastructure in Ireland. The Minister does not need me to tell him about how abject a failure the strategic housing development policy was in that it bypassed local authorities and went straight to An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la. The Minister is saying he got rid of it----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I did. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  -----and now we are looking to do the same thing by bypassing local authorities and An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, which are the bodies responsible for making very important planning decisions. They will never be perfect and neither will this House. However, their being bypassed is a matter of concern that I want to emphasise on the record of the House.  We are speaking about this in a context where the WHO has recognised that there have been 1,300 excess deaths in Europe in the past month due to the recent heatwave. Every conversation about aviation expansion must surely focus primarily on our future and our climate future. We do not record carbon emissions caused by aviation in our budgets. That is wrong, and it is something we need to really consider. I have spoken to many experts - I am sure the Minister is speaking to the relevant sectoral interests - who told me that putting more exemptions into section 15 of the climate Act will not help the situation. Actually, what it will so is dramatically undermine the importance of the Act. That is why I ultimately believe that we are guillotining this legislation. It is to stymie debate and undermine the pre-legislative scrutiny report, which was so comprehensive. Where are the recommendations made in that regard contemplated in this legislation? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  We went over that on Second Stage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  I will finish on this. What we are faced with in the context of this legislation is the potential for future Ministers to end up in court as a result of the State's duties under the climate Act not being fulfilled. I look forward to the Minister's comment on that.  It is unlawful that what we are trying to do is not only bypass the statutory bodies, but also not fulfil our obligations under domestic law when it comes to the climate Act. That merits further scrutiny, yet in approximately 60 minutes, it will all be done and dusted. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  The Minister was not here when I spoke earlier on the LNG Bill, so I will make the point to him now. What the Minister is doing tonight is disgraceful. This is, in six hours, a bonfire of our climate commitments. What we are seeing in action is the Minister's abandonment of targets that we were told many times were legally binding and, therefore, we did not need to worry and the Government would do everything. This is what this means. It is what the Minister has done in terms of LNG. It is what the Minister is doing now.  What the Minister is doing is a disgrace - the content of it - but the way that he is doing it is outrageous. It is utterly outrageous that we are expected to deal with a Bill such as this, the Bill we just dealt with and the next Bill we are dealing with in two hours' time, with Committee Stage and Report Stage all in one go. We will not get to a tiny fraction of the amendments. We will not have any sort of detailed engagement. It is not because we are under much pressure for time, but because the Minister does not want to debate this stuff. The Minister does not want the emperor to be seen, and said, to have no clothes and that, on this issue, the Minister has not even done an economic impact assessment even though he is proposing to disapply the climate obligations. It is such a joke to say that we have these climate obligations that are legally binding and we are never going to do anything that is bad for the environment even while disapplying the climate obligations that are legally binding. It makes them entirely worthless.  Aviation is now doing more climate harm in Ireland than cars. What the Minister is hiding behind is that aviation emissions are not counted in our climate targets, but as has been asked, so what? We are not in this only for where the emissions are counted. The climate keeps the score. The greenhouse gas emissions are counted where it matters in terms of the impact it will have on the world that our children and our children's children will struggle to live in.  Another outrageous feature of what is being proposed is the centralising of decision-making about removing the cap outright into one person, namely, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, the Minister. Unlimited expansion of Dublin Airport is effectively promised here. The Minister has previously referred to 60 million passengers a year, a number almost double the current cap. The Minister has done no evaluation of the climate or environmental implications this will lead to. He has done no evaluation of the economic, social and health costs of just letting Dublin Airport rip at the behest of Michael O'Leary. No climate or biodiversity experts were consulted by the Minister. The excellent group Children's Rights Over Flights tried to meet the Minister. There were numerous requests but no chance to meet him. There was no consideration of children's rights, including their right to a stable climate, even as very young children died from extreme heat in France, and local opposition to the airport for health, noise and environmental reasons was ignored, as was the recommendation of the committee after pre-legislative scrutiny stage \"that meaningful engagement is undertaken by the daa with local communities to mitigate the impact of noise from the north runway.\" No such thing has taken place.  Let the Minister be in no doubt that what is happening is that the profits of the likes of Michael O'Leary, Ryanair and the very big aviation corporations are being put before children's health. To avoid a proper light being shone on that, a proper debate being held on what is going on and a proper discussion of the various amendments we have, the Government just rams it all through, sandwiches it all together and does it in two hours. Presumably, Michael O'Leary would be very happy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  I thank Deputy Ahern for tabling this amendment. It makes sense that the Bill should include a definition of \"international connectivity\" to ensure that the Minister does not have free rein to cite international connectivity as a reason to get rid of the passenger cap and that there are some guardrails for citing this reason. Section 25 sets out the grounds on which the Minister can decide to revoke a passenger capacity condition, and this amendment would give a definition for one of the grounds on which the Minister can revoke it, since there is currently no definition of \"international connectivity\". We support the amendment.  Ireland is an island nation. We had a meeting in Cork Airport on Friday morning. While there is great work being carried out at Cork Airport, I am not sure that the long-term plan has been looked at properly by the Government to ensure that there is Luas connectivity, maybe down to Wilton, as well as easy fixes such as a bus lane up to the airport and a widening of the existing road. That needs to be looked at with some haste.  Our connectivity is not optional and our economy, our tourism sector, our diaspora and our ability to attract investment all depend on it. It is the linchpin for hundreds of thousands of jobs and there could be no question that we need a proper aviation strategy. Dublin Airport is fundamental to that, but the passenger cap has been outgrown and is really out of step with reality. Last year, there were 36 million passengers through Dublin Airport when, as everyone knows, the cap was at 32 million. A 4 million difference is not a rounding error. There is something going wrong. The passenger cap is not really realistic any more but we do not want to merely rubber-stamp the decision that is being taken by the Government.  With the cap, we must ensure that there is essential progress but this Bill exposes, if nothing else, the absence of any long-term coherent aviation strategy from the Government. As in Cork Airport, we must plan not only for ten years ahead, but 20 years, 30 years and 40 years and increase capacity in our regional airports, because they are a key to unlocking Ireland's potential. From Kerry to Cork, Shannon, Knock, Waterford, Donegal, Belfast, Derry and beyond, there is unlocked potential.  We must also engage with the fact that local communities have felt ignored, particularly in north County Dublin and Meath, and overlooked for years. Proper community consultation on, for example, night flights does not mean preventing progress. It can enhance proposals and plans. This Bill represents an opportunity to oblige the Minister, and the DAA most importantly, to do a better job. The amendments that we have put forward aim to tackle these issues.  There has been neglect of our national aviation policy. There is no doubt about it. A year later, we are still operating without a policy. Despite parliamentary questions, we still have not obtained clarity from the Government as to when this long-promised update will be delivered. How can we have any confidence in the Government's approach, particularly to the regional airports, with a policy framework that is more than ten years out of date? When we are lifting the passenger cap, the Government must place equal energy, ambition and investment into developing the regional airports because 80% of passengers are processed through Dublin. Cork gets a fraction, even though its numbers have increased by 63% over the past ten years. Shannon, Knock, Kerry and Donegal are all far below their potential and that is as a result of Government inaction. Regional airports are not only transport hubs. They support tourism, create jobs and provide a vital link to our emigrant communities, for example, in London, Manchester, Coventry and Leeds. Communities are also connected to Europe and beyond.  Funding, of course, remains piecemeal and is insufficient. Route development is limited, infrastructure investment is slow and there is no overarching plan tying it all together, which is a missed opportunity.  We propose a new national aviation policy be delivered within six months, one that reflects the realities of modern aviation and sets out a clear path for the future with clear targets for regional airport growth, annual reporting to ensure accountability and a regional aviation impact assessment, so that Dublin's expansion does not come at the expense of the rest of the country. Although the Government has the regional airports programme, it is essential regional airports are not treated as an afterthought but they should be viewed as a key priority. This task force should be specifically focused on growing passenger numbers in Shannon, Cork and Knock, supporting new international routes, such as a transatlantic route out of Cork, which would incentivise airlines to base aircraft outside Dublin and improve transport links to regional airports. If we are serious about balanced regional development, we cannot simply talk about it but we have to plan, invest and deliver it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  As Deputy Daly has outlined, we support the removal of the cap but there needs to be effective oversight and transparency in terms of the definitions and powers it gives the Minister when coming to the decision to give a ministerial order. This will ensure local communities are engaged with and listened to. This has to strike the right balance between ensuring our international connectivity while protecting local communities and local residents who will have to deal with the consequences of this. At the very least, there should be protections in place for them. We have several amendments submitted in that regard because, of course, there have been ongoing issues with flight paths, noise and much more.  The first amendment here speaks to our international connectivity. Air travel is, of course, essential for us as an island nation, whether that is work, study or opportunities to visit friends and family. It is absolutely critical for us to be part of the wider world. That is why this is an important Bill. However, in many ways, it is frustrating that Government is on the one hand lifting the cap at Dublin Airport while not putting the same efforts into promoting and supporting the use of our regional airports, such as Shannon, Knock and other airports across the country.  It is important to say airports like Shannon and Knock, which are the two most local to me, provide an absolutely fantastic service to people. They want to grow, expand and provide more flights. They are absolutely key to our regional economy in the west of Ireland, in terms of driving tourism into those parts of the country. However, the reality is that well over 80% of the State's air passenger traffic goes through Dublin Airport. That is an absolutely huge imbalance. It represents a policy failure to strike the right balance and to promote and support the use of those regional airports, which would also reduce the level of traffic going through Dublin Airport and support greater growth opportunities in the west of Ireland, particularly given that balanced regional development is something we talk about so much and to which Government often pay lip service. However, this is a prime example of where balanced regional development is not happening, where we are not supporting infrastructural development in the west of Ireland and where Dublin is outpacing the rest of the country significantly.  The investment has to be there from Government to deliver on all this. We need a specific task force put in place to focus on this issue to grow our regional airports and support their use. We have to start taking this issue seriously. It has been over ten years since the national aviation policy was published, and there is still no sign as to when that long-promised policy will be delivered. Without an overarching policy that reflects the developments in aviation and that is going to support balanced regional development in aviation, how can we have any confidence in Government's efforts to get this right?  I make the point regarding public transport and connectivity to our airports. The western rail corridor represents a huge opportunity for connectivity to Knock Airport. However, we have been lacking in even basic things like getting the bus service from Galway to Shannon Airport. These are very basic things we need to get right to improve and to support our regional airports.  There are several gaps and shortfalls in this legislation that need to be addressed, and the amendments are there, particularly in terms of the impact on infrastructure and the environment, which has not been evaluated. How will the Government mitigate the impact of flight paths? What will happen with night-time flights? There should be more extensive debate than just the two hours allocated. Going forward, I urge Government to finally start focusing on balanced regional development in aviation, and to do everything in its power to support regional airports right across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I specifically support amendment No. 12 which, along with several other amendments, aims to tighten up this legislation. It is a very frustrating experience for those who are part of this process and who are trying to contribute positively to it and to influence, shape and improve Government legislation. Many people engaged in good faith, not just in these Chambers but also communities and representative and stakeholder groups at pre-legislative scrutiny. I would say very many of them do not see their contributions reflected in the legislation produced. Many of them, myself included, wonder whether the legislation changed a jot based on the pre-legislative scrutiny contributions. Others have made the point regarding the two-hour debate in which we will get through only a fraction of the amendments. In his response the Minister might indicate whether he is going to accept any of the amendments or whether this is another exercise in futility.  I support amendment No. 12 in the name of Deputy Ahern, and I thank him for bringing it forward. It is indicative of the type of change that needs to happen in this legislation. As it stands, the line, \"the international reputation of the State in respect of air transport,\" is vague. It is unclear what counts as a risk to the international reputation of the State, so it could be used freely for any ministerial order. Removing the line ensures the Minister's power is not limitless. Recent controversies within the DAA were allowed to go on for months and years, causing significant reputational damage to the State's aviation sector, yet we did not see the Minister act to bring them to an end. It is an incredibly loose and vague line, is subject to significant challenge and is reflective of a real looseness within this legislation.  Regardless of one's position on the passenger cap, and I live in and represent a constituency that is not far from the airport, many people understand that it was of its time and maybe is not the most logical thing for road capacity. It is also ignored on an annual basis. People understand the logic of growing the airport in a sustainable way but they also live with what they would see as essentially an airport and airlines that are given free rein, with complete disregard of their neighbours, responsibilities and the types of obligations on individual households and other businesses and they wonder why there is a different set of rules for the DAA and several airlines.  I would have thought this legislation would be a good opportunity to address some of those concerns.  Instead, it looks like the Government wants to quickly lift the passenger cap, give significant powers to the Minister and march on regardless, paying no attention to flight paths that were never intended or provided for but have been questioned since the very second they came into being and that technically, in the words of the DAA not just at this transport committee, but the previous transport committee, are actively under reconsideration, although there is no timeline for that. It is similar with regard to night-time flights, compliance with planning, being a good neighbour, the operation of the Aircraft Noise Competent Authority, ANCA, and its independence, and noise monitoring and mitigation. For me, it is wholly unacceptable that none of that is being addressed in this Bill.  Practically all of the amendments, certainly from us in Sinn F\u00e9in, sought to address those weaknesses in the Bill but also concerns in the local community and more widely, including among people with an interest in the sustainable growth of Dublin Airport, in balanced regional development and in the development of the Irish economy. One of the amendments, which came up at a pre-legislative scrutiny hearing that I attended, was a very reasonable ask, one that is literally being done elsewhere. It was for a comprehensive assessment of what lifting the passenger cap at Dublin Airport - increasing the number of flights into and out of Dublin Airport - would mean for the island economy. A steady-state study was done of Schiphol Airport. It would be a logical step to take in advance of lifting the passenger cap. Our specific amendment was that such a comprehensive assessment would look at the wider implications. If the passenger cap is lifted but matters carry on regardless, there is potentially unsustainable development, impacts on the economy and the environment, and a compounding of regional imbalances. A number of others have mentioned that. That is something that I think the Minister needs to take away and consider again. Regardless of his position on the passenger cap and the need to lift it, there is a very strong case, as a matter of good practice, for carrying out a study such as that. The consultancy company that carried out the work relating to Schiphol Airport was CE Delft. The Minister needs to reconsider the idea.  We have proposed an independent assessment of the flight paths at Dublin Airport. The Minister will have heard, and I certainly have heard as a constituency TD in Meath East, that from the minute the north runway opened, there was an unmitigated disaster and a level of incompetence that I just find incredible, where houses were noise-insulated on the basis that planes would be flying over their homes, only to realise that the houses that were insulated were not on a flight path while the houses that were not insulated were on a flight path. That incredible, farcical, ridiculous situation continues.  There are really good people who are committed to the aviation sector who want to see Dublin Airport grow sustainably, who are employed in the aviation sector, and who have literally out how the situation can be improved. We have submitted amendments to call for an independent assessment of the flight paths. Regardless of whether the Minister accepts that amendment, that needs to happen. There is a wafer-thin commitment from the DAA that that will happen. It needs to happen. The DAA gave that commitment at the last transport committee and again during pre-legislative scrutiny. I call on the Minister to reflect on the amendments that have been submitted here and to understand exactly where they are coming from. They seek to strengthen this legislation. I strongly believe that there is significant room for improvement on this Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathal Crowe  I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this Bill. The imposition of a passenger cap was ludicrous and never worked. It is quite unique in world aviation. The removal of it was always inevitable. On the eve of the last general election, I remember the main party leaders, both Government and Opposition, saying that this would have to happen, with various promises being made in the lead-up to voting day about how this would happen through legislation were they in government.  I want to go through some of the concerns that I expressed at the committee. I am concerned about the imbalance of Dublin Airport in Irish aviation. In the past year, its market share of inbound and outbound traffic has been 86%. It is growing year on year. If one were to start all over again and plot out where there would be airports in Ireland, there would probably not be five airports down the western seaboard and just one on the east. There is an imbalance of where the airports are located and certainly an imbalance these days with respect to where the flights take off and land. I made a point at the Oireachtas transport committee, of which I have been a member in this D\u00e1il and in the previous D\u00e1il, that nearly all Government legislation and policy I have seen over the years makes a preamble reference to the national planning framework and to Project Ireland 2040, and references things at the very outset such as balanced regional development. I do not see that anywhere in this legislation.  Although it is not in the spine of this legislation, I think there need to be addendums and a new national aviation strategy brought in in the autumn, because the current one is outdated and deals with a time, pre-pandemic, when aviation was going well. It has floundered since and recovered since. It has been up and down, boom and bust for aviation. The national aviation plan is not up to date. It does not reflect where aviation is at the moment. It does not reflect the current difficulties that airlines face with respect to fuel crises. It does not reflect the fact that, to this day, only 1% of cargo coming in and out of Ireland moves by air. There are many opportunities. I want to speak for a few moments about some of the opportunities for the other airports of Ireland that I think can be addressed. If they are not in this legislation, there are other ways in which this can be addressed.  I acknowledge the Minister's inputs with regard to Shannon Airport. The Minister has included in the regional airports programme something that we have been advocating for a long time in the mid-west region. Shannon Airport had a very good year last year. It was its best year of the past 16 years. Passenger numbers were 2.3 million. There was 9% growth on the previous flying year. Things are going well there but there is a concern that, with the removal of the cap at Dublin Airport, it becomes somewhat open season and there will be a proliferation of flights to certain hub airports.  If I can illustrate what imbalanced regional development looks like in the aviation realm, tomorrow, starting early in the morning and right up to about 9.30 p.m., 13 direct flights will depart from Dublin Airport heading to Amsterdam Schiphol, which is recognised as one of the principal and most important European airport hubs. I did not check but I presume an equal number return at various times during the day. Not a single flight from Shannon will go that way. We will have connectivity to Paris-Charles de Gaulle and Frankfurt, but it is minuscule. Some of those flights have been pulled. I booked a trip to Paris for my family for a few days later this year. We were to fly out of Shannon. We got an email to say the flight was being moved to Dublin Airport. This is happening time and time again for people in the mid-west region. It is largely down to airlines trying to rationalise and pare back some of their costs for refuelling and so on, given the crisis that airlines face with overhead costs. It is not good enough because we want a service that operates out of our region. I make a conscious choice every time I book to fly from Shannon. It is a mantra we have.  I am chairman of an all-party Oireachtas group that deals with Shannon Airport. While this House is often defined by division, argument and divergent views, I am glad to say that the 19 Members who sit on that, including TDs, Senators, and Ministers, from Clare, Limerick City, Limerick County, Galway East and Tipperary North work collegially.  We meet in the airport boardroom. We meet with airport management, we deal with stakeholders and we try to represent the Shannon agenda in the Houses of the Oireachtas. The fact is that with Dublin's 84% to 86% market share - it varies year on year - the other national State airports are not being sweated fully. Without cutting a single blade of grass, without digging a new foundation or without laying a new concrete block, Shannon Airport has current capacity, without any changing of configurations, to double its passenger intake. Yet, this cap will allow Dublin to grow. It could put further pressure on the airports along the western seaboard. That would be a concern of ours.  I made the point earlier about Project Ireland 2040 and the national planning framework. In nearly every Government decision, whether it is on the provision of healthcare, housing, water or sanitary services, there is usually a reference to balanced regional development and other hubs outside of the capital. There is not in this legislation. That is why I would like to see it brought forward in the autumn-winter period as part of a new aviation policy. It must speak more to the regions. When we undertook pre-legislative scrutiny at the Oireachtas committee, IDA Ireland come in. It very much supports the Minister's legislation but it too cautioned that there should be strong regional airport growth. It must run in parallel to all of this.  Very often when legislation is brought before this House, the words \"miscellaneous provisions\" are added on at the end. There have been some major events in Irish aviation over the past four or five months while this legislation was evolving. I believe there was scope for those to be added in by way of miscellaneous provisions. Perhaps the Minister might bright other legislation before the House in due course.  What I want to principally reference is not in this Bill passed tonight but should be of major concern to all who value air safety. A major wind farm application was submitted in County Clare by Ballycar Green Energy. The Irish Aviation Authority and AirNav Ireland were involved. It was unprecedented and I and other TDs raised this issue in the D\u00e1il. They said that the erection of wind turbines in close proximity to a radar would distort the safe working of the radar. That ruling has been made. We now need to get to a point where Shannon Airport's and other airports' primary radar and secondary radar are protected by insisting that all wind energy zonings within a five- to eight-kilometre radius must be removed. It is not safe. It has been deemed that by the aviation regulator and by AirNav Ireland. It is wrong that our wind energy policy still aligns with something from ten years ago when people, who know about aviation safety, are now saying it is unsafe. That should have been included by way of a miscellaneous provision in this Bill and I hope it can be addressed in the autumn.  The legislation is important and needs to pass. Our national airport cannot be stifled. We must allow passengers to choose where they want to fly from. We must allow free markets to function. There is an imbalance here, and there has been for many years, between Dublin Airport in our capital versus the other airports in the west of Ireland. The national aviation policy needs to address that. The regional airports programme could be bumped up further. We need to reflect on that example I gave that tomorrow, 13 flights will leave Dublin for Amsterdam Schiphol. Not a single one will be flying out from the west of Ireland. That is the type of balance that can be addressed. I suggested it at pre-legislative scrutiny. We could have inserted somewhere into this Bill a provision for slot management. Slot management typically only happens in airports where they are under huge pressure and the number of flights exceed what the airport is able to cater for. The Irish Aviation Authority and the Dublin Airport Authority would start managing slots. I would argue that at the moment, when any airline in the world applies to run a new service into Dublin, it is only viewed through the lens of approval or disapproval. That is the only thing. The Irish Aviation Authority, by statute, is only allowed to appraise it on a \"Yes\" or \"No\" basis. We could impose a regional development clause in that. If 13 flights are going to Schiphol, the Irish Aviation Authority should be saying it has exceeded what we probably need as a country and more should be given to the regions. That clause could have been in there and it should be in the new national aviation strategy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Transport (Deputy Darragh O'Brien)  I thank the ten Deputies who have contributed to the debate so far. I will deal with the specific amendments first and a few of the other points. Some Deputies, such as Deputy Coppinger - not to pick her out - could have a look at the Second Stage speech. I outlined a lot of what we were talking about this evening on Second Stage. I will make a comment before I speak directly to the amendment but it is related. I know everyone in this House has an earnest and a well-held view about this. I think all of us agree that Dublin Airport is an important strategic asset for this State. That is the first thing. I will deal with regional as well because our regional airports are critically important for this country. By the way, it is not just those within the Republic. Derry and Belfast airports are on this island and are critically important. I will turn to regional development and the national aviation policy, which I clearly referenced in the Second Stage contribution.  If we take the airport as it operates right now, last year, 36.4 million passengers flew through Dublin Airport. A small percentage, approximately 1.7 million or so, transited through it. They are passenger numbers, not flights. That was said earlier on and I know Deputy Ahern probably misspoke on that. They were passenger numbers as opposed to flights. That is important too.  The ratio of passengers to jobs is about 1 million to 1,000. For every 1 million passengers, there are about 1,000 direct jobs. We have approximately 30,000 plus workers directly on campus and about 130,000 total between direct and indirect. I am speaking to amendment No. 1 to section 2, which is Deputy Ahern's amendment. Others have come into the House in a less constructive way, such as Deputies Murphy and Coppinger and others. We would be having a debate here, and rightly so, as to why we lost 4,000 direct jobs in the airport and 10,000 to 15,000 indirect jobs if we continued to operate it as it is now and did not try to address what is a legacy issue. To be fair, many Deputies recognised that as a legacy issue. There is an economic imperative here but there is a balanced approach.  There is the good neighbour policy that needs to be operated by DAA, the airport operator. I said that really clearly on Second Stage. I have grown up beside the airport. I represent an airport constituency. I know the benefits of living beside the airport by way of proximity. I know the challenges for members within my community and my constituency and other constituencies like Deputy O'Gorman's. That has to be done in a proper and appropriate way. I said clearly on Second Stage that this has not always been the case by the airport operators. On page 8 of the Bill, someone bemoaned the powers that may be given to the Minister. That might be a well-held view but it states, \"The Minister may give a direction in writing to daa for any purpose relating to this Act, including, but not limited to-\". I have said it clearly on a couple of things. I have written to the airport and intend for it to do things such as improving and expanding the noise insulation scheme. I do not think Deputy Coppinger knew about ANCA's decision at the time. That decision in relation to aircraft noise has been published for 14 weeks, which would have a significant bearing on the scale and the breadth of the noise insulation scheme.  I have put it on the record of the House here and directly to the DAA that the voluntary purchase scheme needs to be improved upon. There are people who have sold their homes under that scheme. It needs to be improved further. There are people, particularly on the western side, right on the airport campus, whose homes I visited. For others to make any suggestion that I have not met residents' groups is simply untrue. Again, that charge was made by Deputies Murphy and Coppinger. It is not true. Formally, I have had three separate meetings with three groups over the course of the past 12 to 18 months, listening to them directly. I represent residents and constituents who work in the airport as well as those who have issues with noise. I meet them and engage with them all the time, so what they said is simply not true.  There is a responsibility to balance sustainable growth at the airport, supporting the jobs in the airport and supporting the potential to grow further jobs and further routes.  On flight paths, I said very clearly on Second Stage - not on foot of a proposal from anyone else but I welcome the main Opposition party looking at this - that an independent assessment of flight paths will happen. We need it to happen because, as Deputy O'Rourke said, there are people, including in north County Dublin, who saw applications made for certain flight paths that were granted and were not adhered to. I will not say too much because that was a matter for a retention application as well. When you plan forward, you have to try to be very clear with people. Yes, I want the airport to grow. I want the good jobs that are in the airport to be supported and I want the reality of ensuring that happens in a sustainable way.  I think it was Deputy Farrelly who mentioned SHDs and going over the head of local authorities. I agree absolutely - that is why as housing Minister I got rid of SHDs - but this legislation specifically references that we are protecting the existing infrastructure application in there. We are not overriding the application that has still not been heard. I take the Deputy\u2019s point and am not dismissing it at all but, in line with the legal advice we had, fundamentally the policy direction that I wanted was to protect that application that is there because it has gone through a number of iterations by way of public consultation right the way through.  It is a complicated decision-making structure between the aircraft noise competent authority, ANCA, and Fingal County Council. I was in this Chamber in the Opposition debating this when it was the subject of a Bill in 2018. I actually supported the Bill but managed to get some changes to it - parts of it were a halfway house \u2013 and on foot of that we have commenced the review of where planning should sit for an airport into the future, as a strategic asset, how the noise authority interacts with the local authority and all those different things. There were people in the Fingal area at the time, as I am sure Deputy O\u2019Gorman will know, who were not happy with ANCA sitting within Fingal County Council even though it is an independent organisation. There were people who had concerns about that. I commend ANCA on the work it does. It operates very well and has protected the independence it has had.  I mention that because these were points that were made during debates, genuine concerns that may have been raised, that have not come to pass. That is not to dismiss any of the points that have been made here either, because this is just the first iteration of this. When I say it will protect the existing application, that application, if granted, would supersede any order I would make. Again, that is clearly set down in the legislation. If it is refused, my order stays in place. How do I make the order? This question has been raised by many TDs here, and especially Deputies Ahern and O\u2019Gorman have raised it in relation to environmental considerations. It is clearly set out in the Bill. I will not be doing the assessments. The full environmental impact assessment will be done in line with an EIA directive, which will identify, describe and assess the direct and indirect significant effects of making an order on several factors including climate. That will be independently undertaken prior to the making of the order. An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la will do that and I have set out a timeframe.  Any charge that we are setting aside any environmental considerations is absolutely not true. I will not prejudice the outcome of that assessment, which I will consider fully before making an order. I have made it clear that even though international aviation emissions are outside the scope of the climate action plan, which is a fact, we are taking actions that are aligned with the global approach to decarbonisation in the aviation sector. That is the element in relation to this. We are not setting aside climate obligations, climate assessments or environmental impact assessments. That is not correct. We are protecting the original planning application. That is being done and I have said that very clearly. It does give the Minister of the day the power to seek an application from the DAA for further increases.  I am glad Deputy Murphy is back. I referred to him earlier - not in a derogatory way, I might add - in relation to his comment that the Bill has been rushed or not considered. There were ten weeks of pre-legislative scrutiny. It is a planning condition going back to 2007 and 2008. It is something that has been kicked around for a long time and has never been dealt with. Those pre-legislative scrutiny hearings were open to any Deputy to go and make his or her case or point of view. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I was there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  Yes, Deputy O\u2019Gorman was there. I was not saying he was not but I am saying there are others who have contributed here this evening who did not go to that committee to put forward their case. They are entitled to do it here this evening but I am just stating that. I did say, now that Deputy Murphy is here, that I have met residents. Deputy Coppinger made the charge the last time that I had not done so but I certainly have.  On balanced regional development, national aviation policy has been rightly mentioned. Again, on Second Stage, I tried to be very clear on this. We have commenced work on the new national aviation policy, which is a commitment in the programme for Government. We will issue an issues paper on the new national aviation policy later this year. That will form the basis for stakeholder engagement and look at the balanced regional development of our airports.  All our regional airports are growing and that is good. Cork Airport is growing. Deputy Pa Daly asked what was happening with Cork. There is a \u20ac200 million capital investment happening in Cork Airport. I visited it only a few weeks ago. It is a great airport with further potential to grow and I want to see that happen. I was at the 40th anniversary of Ireland West, where I met the team and saw the new infrastructure that is in place, fire services training, new stands and its development plan. Hopefully, Ireland West Airport Knock will hit 1 million passengers by the end of this year. Shannon is growing. It grew by 9% last year. It not only has really good plans in place but there is growth happening. I think there are 41 routes out of Shannon now, which is the highest number it has had in maybe 30 years. Donegal Airport is servicing the north west and we have managed to protect that airport with the PSO changes we made. The Dublin-Derry air route will open in October through PSO funding we secured through the shared island fund. Kerry Airport in Farranfore is continuing to grow. Commitment towards regional growth is why I have changed the regional airports policy to ensure that airports can grow up to 3 million and still receive support from the State to grow. I want to see them grow. There are really good jobs there. Connectivity is important for tourism and for our wider economy as well.  If we were to stick to 32 million and a decision were made tomorrow that the cap currently in place would apply immediately such that we reduced the passenger numbers from 36.4 million to 32 million, we would be losing thousands of jobs in Dublin Airport. Deputy Coppinger would probably be the first to come here on that. She might not be the first but many Deputies would rightly come in here and ask what we were doing to support airport workers. What I am doing to support airport workers is making sure there are good jobs in the airport and making sure people can have good careers in the airport, not just in aviation itself and the airlines but in maintenance, repair and overhaul, MRO, leasing and all the other elements of the aviation sector in which Irish people are at the forefront right the way across the world. The airport has to grow in a sustainable way and it will. We are protecting the application that is before Fingal County Council. We have ensured that is the case with this legislation by specific reference to it.  On future growth, the application right now would raise the cap to 40 million. The assessments that have been done will back up that 40 million. Any future growth would be based on an order that would be made. An application would be made to the Minister for a further increase if that was required in the future but you cannot just grow the airport and passenger numbers without having the infrastructure in place. That is why you need the new stands at the airport and all the various things that underpin the growth of the aviation sector and, indeed, Dublin Airport.  To respond to Deputy Ahern, I was not being facetious the last day and I will not be facetious now either. It is very clear what international connectivity is and that is why I am not accepting either of the amendments he tabled.  I have also clearly covered our obligations with regard to environmental impact assessments and how they will be assessed through An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, so I do not intend to accept amendment No. 13 either. I think I have covered most of what was there, but I assure people that residents and those living in proximity are at the forefront of my mind in ensuring the airport can grow in a balanced way on the basis that it operates as a good neighbour, which it has not always done. I have reiterated my commitment to ensuring an independent assessment of flight paths. That will happen. We will continue to support and grow the jobs at Dublin Airport and everything else that relates to the other, indirect jobs that flow from smaller and larger Irish companies thousands of people derive their income from. That is an important consideration, I would say, and should be for everyone in this Chamber. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I thank the Minister for his comments and for listening so attentively to what people were saying. On my amendment, the issue I have is how much connectivity is ever going to be enough. We still do not have an answer on that. He mentioned a figure of 40 million passengers being the first application. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  That is the one in with Fingal now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  The Minister's assumption is that will be the first application. There is no guarantee anywhere here, however, that it is going to be a 40 million cap. There is presumably nothing preventing the DAA from applying for a higher figure. However, that is the Minister's understanding and that is fair enough. Our issue is that there are no limits anywhere in this Bill. There are no parameters for the number of passengers who will be coming through the airport. No real economic assessment has been done here. The Minister stated that there are 1,000 jobs attached to every 1 million passengers, and I ask where he got that figure from and whether it is a figure given to him by the airline industry. At least when it came to the expansion of data centres in this country and the Government's policy on that, it commissioned a report we could scrutinise. The Government acknowledged the need to back up the claims about jobs related to data centres with some hard data. Now, the data is questionable but at least it was put out there by the Government. We have not seen any of that for the claims being made about jobs and the international connectivity of Dublin Airport. Do not get me wrong, we value Dublin Airport. We completely understand that it is a strategic national asset. Part of our concern here relates to balanced regional development. It relates back to what Deputy Crowe was speaking about where flights from Shannon are being run from Dublin rather than Shannon. Will this policy now give rise to Dublin swallowing up everything else? Is international connectivity just a byword for a policy from large international airlines that want to use Dublin Airport as a hub and create an even bigger hub out of Dublin that will not necessarily serve Irish people or passengers but is going to serve these international airlines and passengers who are connecting here to move abroad? I have serious questions about that as well.  As a lawyer, I like definitions. Again, as Deputy Whitmore alluded to, we need some metrics to hold the Minister to account. There are emissions connected to every new additional flight that is going to come from Dublin Airport, and we want to have some accountability here. Huge power is being put in the Minister's hands in this Bill, and we want to put some guardrails and parameters around that. Unfortunately, he is determined to dismantle some of the climate guardrails the previous Government put in place through the disapplication of section 15 of the climate Act.  The Minister also mentioned that he is not setting aside climate considerations. There are other amendments that relate to this and some of his powers under the Bill. Those powers are contained in section 25 of the Bill, and they are his powers to make an order. I bring this up because the Minister raised it and said he has to consider any conditions that An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la sends to him. That is all true. A process is set out here whereby An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la does an environmental impact assessment, and it can make recommendations and put conditions down that they send to him as a Minister. Under section 25(3), he can decide to include that condition in an order he makes. He can unilaterally decide to vary that condition or he can refuse to include that condition in an order that he makes. That is a massive power for him to simply take as advisory anything that An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la says. I do not accept that he is not setting aside climate considerations here. It is up to him or a future Minister for Transport to say sod whatever An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la said and sod the climate because they will have an explicit power to ignore all of that, and to decide that is what they are going to do. That is a massive flaw in this Bill. If it is the Minister's position that he wants to take climate considerations seriously into account when it comes to our aviation policy, this section 25(3)(c) is a massive problem. We do not have any answers from the Minister on where the savings will come from to counteract the additional emissions coming from Dublin Airport when this airport cap is lifted. We are lifting the Dublin Airport cap, and we still have no other cap. We still have no climate action plan, and we desperately want to see that from the Minister as soon as possible.  Emissions from air travel are massive. I do not know if we all consider just how polluting our flights are. To put this in context, the Minister and certainly the electoral nerds among us will have seen last week that the Electoral Commission produced a report about the Irish obsession with posters during election campaigns. It estimated that the carbon emissions for all the posters used in the general election in 2024 had the equivalent of just two return transatlantic flights. That report interestingly said that Irish people hate posters and want to do away with them. If we did do away with election posters, it would simply have the same environmental impact as two full transatlantic flights. We are seriously increasing our carbon emissions here. There is a world in which I can support something like this, but we would need to see where the limits and the guardrails are, and where in the transport sector or elsewhere those savings will come from so we can comply with our legally binding carbon budgets and our international obligations. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I thank the Minister for his response. I want to come back briefly on two elements. The Minister has said that in advancing this legislation he is not setting aside our climate obligations. Just so it is on the record of the House, section 39 of the Bill is a modification of the application of section 15 of Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015. It is worth looking at what that actually does. Section 39 states:  The Minister and [An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la], in performing their functions under this Act, shall not be subject to the requirements referred to in section 15(1) of the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015, having regard to the likely consequences for the economy of the State and for international connectivity if an order is not made by the Minister under section 25(1) .  The Minister and the commission are not subject to the requirements under section 15(1) of the climate Act. What are those requirements? There are five requirements set out in law. They are that a relevant body shall, insofar as it is practicable, perform its functions in a manner consistent with the most recently approved climate action plan, the most recently approved long-term climate action strategy, the most recently approved national adaptation framework and approved sectoral adaptation plan, the furtherance of the national climate objective and the objective of mitigating greenhouse gas emissions and adapting to the effects of climate change in the State.  The word \"literally\" is overused, but the Minister is literally disapplying climate obligations by means of this particular Bill. Section 39 literally states that, so can we just move away from this idea that the Minister is not doing so. He is, because it says he is in section 39. It is everything from the annual - or what used to be the annual - climate action plans all the way up to the important national climate objective that the State has and that is the centrepiece of the climate action Act, as amended. These are being disapplied when it comes to the crucial decision on lifting the airport cap. They has been disapplied in other areas as well, including in the legislation on the decision relating to LNG that we dealt with earlier. They will possibly be disapplied in relation to many decisions coming through in respect of the critical infrastructure Bill. In some places, what is happening is actually going to make pro-climate critical infrastructure harder to defend in court. I raised that point already. Let us be very clear: the Bill is literally disapplying our climate obligations. That is the purpose of section 39.  I wish to comment on the point about the engagement with the process. The Minister mentioned the pre-legislative scrutiny process, which was lengthy. We got to hear in detail the impact of noise on residents and the attempt by certain US CEOs to bully us into making this particular change. We are looking at the detailed legislation at this point. When the ANCA legislation was going through, the Minister made the point that, following engagement with one of his ministerial colleagues, he was able to secure some amendments and improvements. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  The Deputy can table amendments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  We cannot do that tonight because we have not even had the opportunity to go through good amendments or to address some of the points in detail. After Committee Stage, most fair-minded Ministers would at least look at what the Opposition has said and make some changes or improvements. We do not have that opportunity here. I have a good amendment for the Minister. It is amendment No. 14. He recognised the work ANCA has done and the fact that it recently published a decision. Let us give that decision some teeth. Let us recognise the noise abatement objective for Dublin Airport in this legislation. Let us recognise that it is one of the considerations that An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la should use in the context of the recommendation it will make and in respect of which the Minister will ultimately make a decision. There are good amendments here. We just do not have the time to tease them out and, perhaps, bring forward other amendments. That is the process. We are helpless in terms of that now. There are good amendments here, and some of them should be accepted. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  I thank the Minister for his very comprehensive response to the many points made. As Deputy O'Gorman said, we have to be accurate in what we say. This legislation is exempt from section 15 of the climate action Act. It is of critical importance to acknowledge that in the first instance. Otherwise, we are beating around the bush and being quite disingenuous. Speaking of being disingenuous, we should not be dangling the prospect of 4,000 jobs being impacted during the debate on legislation of this nature. I do not think it is accurate to speak about this matter in that context. The Minister has insight from meeting with the DAA and everybody else involved, but, given the tight timeframe, to make a threat of that nature in respect of legislation does not help.  I listened with real interest to a DAA spokesperson commenting on balanced regional development and the importance of other regional airports. He said that airlines simply do not want to use the other airports and that is why the passenger cap needs to go. In that context, I reiterate the point I made in my initial contribution. This is legislation and the policy behind it are being driven by the market. The cost of that is yet to be determined.  The Minister reverted to me about the SHD legislation and how it differs from this Bill. On the face of it, however, it is undemocratic to bypass the local authority in the first instance. The Minister referred to the strategic importance of this piece of infrastructure. When he was a councillor - I was also a councillor in Kildare - he would not have been impressed by the idea that the local authority of which he was a member, in the context of the important function it plays in respect of the planning process, would be bypassed. I have a very fond memory of a colleague of the Minister's who served with me on Kildare County Council declaring a climate emergency. He put down a motion at a meeting of Kildare County Council, banged on the table and stated that we were in a climate emergency and living in that dystopian future that we were told to worry about when it came to severe weather events. That colleague of the Minister is now going to vote in favour of legislation, the consequences of which we simply cannot know because no calculation has been carried out. There is no sense from a numbers perspective what impact this legislation will have. The Minister cannot rebut that because it is factually correct. We have not done the assessment. We have not done the holistic calculation of just how damaging this will be.  There was a situation in Kildare about a month ago whereby the ESB threatened that it was going to flood one community because of excess water in the River Liffey. At the same time, another community 3 km or 4 km away had no water. That is testament to the ever-worsening and ever-more-extreme climate events our country faces and to our place in this world.  It pains me when colleagues declare that we are in a climate emergency at local authority meetings and then the Government bypasses local authorities with its decision-making structures. I wonder what will happen next. What other ministerial powers are going to come about? When we are talking about nuclear energy or other important projects, will it be okay to be undemocratic and not to put these through the formal planning process because of their strategic importance? I am worried. If we get that precedent wrong, it will be the start of a very worrying trend. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I want to press my amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  Am I allowed to respond? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Not really. If the Deputy is pressing the amendment, that is his prerogative. It is his amendment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Section 2 agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Sections 3 to 5, inclusive, agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"SECTION 6"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  I move amendment No. 2:  In page 8, between lines 27 and 28, to insert the following:  \u201c(4) The Minister shall, not later than 12 months following commencement, lay before both Houses of the Oireachtas a report reviewing daa\u2019s compliance with the directions of the Minister.\u201d.  This amendment seeks that the Minister should within 12 months following commencement, lay before both Houses of the Oireachtas a report reviewing DAA's compliance with the directions of the Minister because, as we all know, there is a lack of trust in the north County Dublin area in what the DAA has done. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  This amendment proposes that I lay a report before the Houses in relation to the DAA's compliance with any direction I give it under the Bill. I think this provision is unnecessary. Under the Bill, the DAA is required to comply with a direction that I issue. Typically, this will relate to the provision of reports to allow the environmental assessments to be undertaken. If that information is not provided and the assessments cannot be undertaken, no order can be made. As such, it is in the interest of the DAA to comply with a direction I issue. I do not envisage a scenario where the DAA does not comply with a direction I give, so reporting on compliance will be unnecessary.  In addition, it is open to Deputies to seek information by way of parliamentary questions. I again refer the Deputy to the powers of a Minister to give directions to the DAA. That will not be confined. We have discussed at length here too the importance of the DAA being a good neighbour. I think this has improved in the short term but it needs to improve further. In relation to things like flight paths, I have made this very clear. We are going to have an independent assessment of it. Additionally, as was referenced earlier in relation to flights, and the decision, in particular, that ANCA has issued for a 14-week public consultation, I encourage people to engage with it. It is a good piece of work and will feed into the planning application for 40 million passengers currently with Fingal County Council. That is why I was at pains to say earlier that we protect that current application because communities, individuals and other stakeholders have engaged directly with it. It would not be appropriate to set that aside, nor am I actually suggesting that happen. Furthermore, I have actually specifically protected it, and it is referred to in this legislation. In that instance, I am not going to accept this amendment for the reasons I put forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  How could the Minister not accept such an amendment? It is as plain as anything that there should be some obligation on the DAA to review how it works. We only have a minute or so left. I have two very quick things. One concerns a resident who sent this communication last week. I was making the point about the DAA and insulation. This person said that as they typed the message in their back garden, planes were flying directly overhead, every window in the house was open and their four kids under seven were in bed. This person added that their house has not been noise-insulated by the DAA and wanted us to know that the existing insulation scheme has not installed a single air conditioning system for affected residents in order to remove the necessity to open windows during the hottest and loudest months. The message continued by saying the scheme is not fit for purpose and that it is grossly unfair that the costs of expansion and of the airlines doing business are being borne by local residents. Unfortunately, that is the reality. During the hottest months, the flights are the worst.  I also want to ask the Minister about having said earlier that he had met residents. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I have. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I just checked, and residents in the St. Margaret's The Ward Residents Group have asked to meet the Minister in relation to their Planning for Real proposal. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I have met them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  They said the Minister has not met them since before last summer, so we have two conflicting statements then. I have to believe the residents. They have now gone to court because they have not been able to meet the Minister.  I also want to say something else because the Minister has used the issue of jobs to justify this. Nobody is saying that any jobs should be lost. This is actually about expanding the airport. We actually cannot have unlimited growth all the time. We have to take into account the impact on the environment and climate change and on local residents too. To talk about job losses is just really out of order in that sense.  We are very rushed again. We are not going to get to some of the other very important amendments that have been tabled.  The Minister needs to meet the residents. If he is saying he has met them, then he should agree to meet them. I definitely do believe we should call a vote on this Bill. It is an extremely important one. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The time permitted for this debate having expired, I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the D\u00e1il of this day: \"That in respect of each of the sections undisposed of, the section is hereby agreed to in Committee, the Title is hereby agreed to in Committee, the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without amendment, Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.\" "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_40","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy)  Seanad \u00c9ireann has passed the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill 2025, without amendment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_41","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/69","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/69\/dail\/3_sub","houseCode":"dail","stage":"3_sub","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages","counts":{"speechCount":45,"speakerCount":13},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_41","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"SECTION 1"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question proposed: \"That section 1 stand part of the Bill.\""},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment (Deputy Niamh Smyth)  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an gCathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach for his forbearance. I thank the House for facilitating Committee Stage today and for the constructive engagement on the Bill on Second Stage.  The Bill puts in place the regulatory foundation needed to build public trust in artificial intelligence, Al, so that Al develops as a tool for people and supports the wider goal of improving human well-being. With these aims in mind, the Bill is a technical implementing measure. It does not add to, nor alter, the obligations placed on regulated entities by the EU Al Act. The Bill establishes essential, domestic regulatory architecture for the supervision and enforcement of the Al Act in the State.  We are moving with agility now, as there is also a firm legal deadline. Enforcement of prohibited Al practices posing unacceptable risks, as set out in Article 5 of the Al Act, takes effect on 2 August 2026. Ireland must have the necessary national supervisory and enforcement infrastructure in place by that date. There will be a phased approach to implementation of the Al Act, so we recognise the need to be open to further measures as part of this work.  I also take this opportunity to say that I look forward to receiving the enterprise committee\u2019s pre-legislative scrutiny report. The recommendations contained in it will be considered as part of the next phase. All proposed amendments must be considered against this backdrop.  I will briefly address some of the issues raised on Second Stage. I have written directly to some of the Deputies who raised specific questions last week. I hope most of them had an opportunity to consider the correspondence. The important issue of resourcing was raised a number of times, and I fully agree that the resourcing of all competent authorities is vital to ensure the successful implementation of the Al Act in Ireland. For that reason, the Government provided funding in 2026 to support the establishment of the Irish Al office. Relevant competent authorities and market surveillance authorities will continue to be resourced through their existing governance and budgetary arrangements.  The EU Al Act continues to come into effect on a phased basis and will do so from August of this year to December 2028. This period provides an opportunity for competent authorities to further assess operational requirements for them to carry out their roles in the regulation of Al.  Colleagues raised points around the independence of the Al office. I want to be clear: I recognise the importance of this matter. The Al office is to be established as a separate statutory body corporate with its own legal standing. The Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill expressly provides in section 9 that the Al office \u201cshall be independent in the performance of its functions\". This is reinforced by its status as a stand-alone body; governance by an independent board rather than the Minister; a public appointments process for board members and the CEO; conflict of interest rules; and restrictions on political officeholders serving in the office. While the Minister retains a limited power to issue policy directions, that power is constrained and does not extend to the regulatory co-ordination functions of the office. The office will remain subject to appropriate statutory, funding and accountability controls, while its operational independence in core regulatory functions is protected by the Bill.  Deputies also raised points regarding the powers and role of the Al office and I welcome the opportunity to clarify these. I confirm that the Al office is to be designated as a market surveillance authority and Ireland\u2019s single point of contact for the European Commission and other member states, as required by the Al Act. In this role, it will increase organisational efficiency in Ireland to support consistent enforcement of the Act; facilitate co-operation between competent authorities and fundamental rights bodies; and act as Ireland's main interface with the EU and member states for Al regulation. The Irish Al office will act within a distributed regulatory model, under which a range of existing sectoral regulators and market surveillance authorities are responsible for supervising and enforcing the Al Act within their respective areas of expertise.  I confirm that no Government amendments are being brought forward this evening. I thank Deputies for their co-operation. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"SECTION 2"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy)  Amendments Nos. 1, 13 to 16, inclusive, and 20 are related and may be discussed together. Amendment No. 16 is a physical alternative to amendment No. 15. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I move amendment No. 1:  In page 11, between lines 15 and 16, to insert the following:  \u201c \u201cService\u201d means the Public Appointments Service;\u201d.  This first set of amendments speaks to the establishment of the board but first I wish to address the parliamentary scrutiny, or lack thereof, of this legislation, which is so disappointing. It is 11 calendar days since the text of this Bill was published. We have had four D\u00e1il sitting days and seven working days to scrutinise this absolutely crucial Bill. Providing 11 calendar days between publishing the text and enacting the law is not parliamentary scrutiny. That does not give us as members of the Opposition any opportunity to engage properly with this legislation and provide for amendments. It is a disgrace. I have valuable insights and I want to work on the governance of AI. I established a State agency, which is arguably the most independent State agency. I was its inaugural director between 2014 and 2016 and later I led it for four years as chief commissioner. I have knowledge I can contribute to this. I worked in the tech sector for eight years. I have a lot to add. I sit on the AI committee and the culture, communication and sport committee where we regulate the tech sector. I attended the pre-legislative scrutiny at the enterprise committee and I could even see, between those three committees, the gulf in understanding. AI is technical, complex and we have learned a lot on the AI committee but we were not given the opportunity to engage effectively with this Bill. Instead it went through pre-legislative scrutiny at the enterprise committee and now it is being rushed through the D\u00e1il even though the Government has known it is coming down the track for years. I am genuinely disgusted at how this is being handled. It is a travesty of democracy that this is all the opportunity we get to discuss it.  My amendments in this grouping are amendments Nos. 1, 15 and 20. They speak to the Public Appointments Service process for the appointment of the board. A lot of these amendments, especially in the first half of the legislation, are to strengthen the governance of this office to make it more independent. Although the Minister of State said in her statement she appreciates the independence of the office, that this is reinforced by it being a stand-alone body, etc., there are multiple clauses in the Bill that go against that. We will speak later to the fact the Minister gets to appoint the first CEO without any involvement by the Public Appointments Service and the fact the CEO cannot comment on government policy. Besides that, the appointment of the board itself should strive towards the greatest level of independence. These amendments try to essentially put in place a gold standard through the involvement of the Public Appointments Service, as distinct from the Department, so the office can act on its own.  I am familiar with the State boards process. I have issues with the process as it stands. There is a bang of window-dressing off it at times. Obviously it was moved and developed because there was criticism of the fact that Ministers in the past were cherry-picking appointments at board level across many State agencies. Regardless, it is better at least than direct appointments by the Minister. It is important we use the mechanisms that are available to us in the Public Appointments Service to appoint board members and these amendments set out to do exactly that and to make sure we can do that. Also, rather than the Minister having that oversight, other parts of the amendments in this grouping allow for the Government to do it rather than the Minister, which again allows for that increased independence.  I have been critical from the outset that the entire approach of this Government and officials in Brussels, and indeed the Brussels mindset, is that we regulate AI through the lens of industry and business. That is not good enough because it leaves out the competence we need to deal with the rights and protections that are under threat from AI. If we do all this with an enterprise lens, which is what this legislation does, we do not do that. We do not bake in the competence at the outset that we need to protect our citizens from the harms AI is going to inflict on us, which we see around us already. The algorithms we are all using, which are making us addicted to products and which are prompting chatbots to push people towards suicide, are the harms AI is wreaking on society. To treat it as an enterprise issue and the governance as an enterprise-informed operation and mechanism ignores all that. What we get from Government instead is it saying we have to protect rights. It says that at the end of the sentence after talking about balance and consideration but the issue is it is not doing it. These amendments try to strengthen that independence that will ultimately help with that balance and bring in the competence about rights and protections. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  I too wish to state, as I said to the Minister, how concerned I am about the short space of time we have had to really scrutinise something as important as this. The time is just too short for amendments with all the other legislation at this time of year that is piled on together. I take from the Minister of State\u2019s opening contribution that she will be taking on board the enterprise committee\u2019s pre-legislative scrutiny report and that is a positive thing. I agree with Deputy that we have a dedicated AI committee and it must have a role in making this the best possible legislation we can. There is the difficulty there between splitting the areas of authority and responsibility between those committees. Under any circumstances we would have needed extra time to be able to deal with this Bill in the way we needed to.  The independence of the AI office is critical to all of this and to everything that comes after it. I note that while the Minister of State said it is independent, there are things in the legislation that prompt me to question that independence, especially in relation to the ministerial powers. She has a lot to do to convince us of the independence of the office. I submitted amendment No. 16 because I believe the expertise and knowledge of the new members that will comprise the board must reflect the sections of society for which they will be regulating. That is why I have explicitly included the areas of AI, human rights, equality and law, trade unions and workers' rights, consumer protection and civil society engagement. Across the proposed seven members of the new board these are areas that should be represented. If those voices are not represented on the board I cannot see how there can be independence and expertise there in terms of the oversight and regulation we need. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  As I said on Second Stage of this Bill, I commend the Minister of State on bringing the Bill to these Houses. There are a few things I will mention before I get to the amendments. When the Minister of State said \"recommendations contained in [the pre-legislative scrutiny report] will be considered as part of the next phase\", what did she mean by the next phase? Is she talking about additional primary or secondary legislation? She might clarify that point. It was also a missed opportunity that the AI committee was not afforded time to scrutinise this Bill. Furthermore, two hours for Committee Stage of this Bill is an insufficient amount of time. I acknowledge the challenges Government has to get very important legislation over the line but if there was more time available and if this debate was ongoing, that should have been afforded.  As the previous speaker said, if it is the case that there are to be next phases and if that is primary or secondary legislation, whatever about the Standing Orders, which I do not dismiss, relating to a permanent committee and a non-permanent committee, we are ready and able in the Oireachtas artificial intelligence committee to afford the level of scrutiny I think the committee on enterprise would actually be quite happy with, if that were delegated to us in whatever form, whether it be a formal or informal way, to allow us more of an opportunity.  My amendments and similar amendments relate to the composition of the board. Put very simply, the AI office is different from Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n, the Data Protection Commission and the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, which Deputy Gibney was speaking about a moment ago, in the sense that the structure of a commission and commissioners is very different from that of a board. While I acknowledge the distributive model that is being formed under the AI Act and the one we are adopting here in Ireland and that there will be other entities and regulatory bodies that will have responsibility for the areas of regulating AI, ultimately, the technology sector will treat the AI office as part of a kind of three-way sandwich between Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n and the Data Protection Commissioner. Those three entities will have probably the greatest interplay when it comes to the development of AI products in this jurisdiction.  For those reasons, it is important that the Act would direct the composition of the board. If the Minister of State says that, for whatever reason, the type of composition of the board should not form part of the primary legislation, she might tell the House or give the House some comfort as to the types of experiences, backgrounds and professions that a person who is seeking to be a member of the board of the AI office would have to have. Ultimately, what we want to ensure in terms of a governance structure for the AI office is that it protects fundamental rights, but equally, that the board has an understanding of AI, the development of AI and an interest in the adoption of AI. What we know from this legislation is that the AI office will have a dual function. It will be a regulator but it will also act as a body that will advocate and promote the use of AI. It will regulate independently from the Minister and that is very clear in the legislation in terms of the enforcement of the EU regulations.  On the flip side of that, however, it will have a role for communicating to the general public, and hopefully to small businesses, how AI can support and develop. Therefore, I want to ensure, as I think everyone in this House does, that the board of the AI office would have relevant competencies and a relevant mixture of experiences that could deal with both of those issues. If the Minister of State says it should not form part of the legislation, she might be able to tell the House how that can be assured in the public appointment process that will be brought to bear for the appointments to the board. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  Like my colleagues, I would have serious concerns about the timescale with regard to this legislation and, as has been said, the notion that we have a dedicated AI committee and yet the only scrutiny, as such, was done by the enterprise committee. I sit on the enterprise committee. The AI committee has done a tremendous amount of work since its establishment and its members are really invested in this legislation, probably to a greater degree than the members of the enterprise committee. The notion that we would have a dedicated AI committee and its members would not be consulted in a meaningful way on this legislation leaves a funny taste. This is really important legislation given the context in which we are living and the almost daily intrusion of AI in all our lives, be it online or otherwise.  The Minister of State talks about the next phase. As Deputy Geoghegan alluded to, in that next phase, whatever it may be, surely there should be some role or function for the AI committee given the expertise it has built up since its establishment. This was established with foresight. People saw the need for an AI committee within these House. It is quite ludicrous, therefore, that when we bring a Bill or piece of legislation on AI before the House, the committee relevant to that legislation is not consulted. That is something we need to examine greatly. While the enterprise committee did have pre-legislative scrutiny and will obviously issue a report, it is a halfway house compared with what it should be in terms of scrutiny by a committee that was set up and established specifically to discuss, investigate and interrogate the whole issue of AI.  The amendment I propose states:  Without prejudice ... the Minister shall, in so far as is practicable, endeavour to ensure that among the members of the Board there is at least one person with demonstrated expertise in one or more of the following:  (a) fundamental rights law;  (b) data protection law;  (c) consumer protection law.  The Bill provides for a board but does not specify any expertise requirements for its membership beyond general competence. The amendment requires the Minister to endeavour to ensure that at least one member has expertise in fundamental rights law, data protection law or consumer protection law. This reflects the subject matter of the AI Act, which operates at the intersection of all three. The AI Act itself requires that national competent authorities have the necessary technical and legal expertise. Given that the office's function includes supervising high-risk AI systems affecting individuals' rights, the absence of any rights expertise requirement is certainly a gap. I do not think it is too big an ask to have the correct competent people sitting on what will be one of the most important boards to come before this House and, indeed, the country. The notion that we are asking for this is also a bit ludicrous. Given what is at stake and what is contained in it, it is not a huge ask that these three competencies, in particular, would be sought to serve on this board, however they may be appointed. As I said, however, this is indicative of the rushed legislation we see before us. As Deputy Gibney has pointed out, 11 days is simply not good enough. It is not good enough in the context of the decisions we have to make in this regard. Therefore, I urge the Minister to consider the amendment seriously. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I welcome the opportunity to speak on Committee Stage. The point has been made about the process. There are two issues, one of which is the rushed nature of it. It is not that long ago that we were speaking on Second Stage here and the Committee Stage amendments deadline had already passed at that stage. There are 74 amendments. There would have been more. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for the Government to rush through really important legislation. It is not even uncommon today. This is the third piece of legislation in the last number of hours that has been rushed through. That is the aspect about that process and the opportunity for scrutiny. In fairness, both the Government and Opposition are contributing to the legislation, which is not something we always see. There are amendments from Government TDs. It is reasonable to ask what, if any, pre-legislative scrutiny deliberations or recommendations are reflected in the Bill. At this stage, there are 74 amendments here. We will be lucky to get through five or six of them. Is the Minister of State going to accept any of them or is this exercise a fait accompli , as was the experience in the previous two Bills? What does that say? In fairness, all of us here are engaging in good faith. We recognise the importance of this legislation and we are trying to improve it. Members from the Opposition and the Minister of State's own Government colleagues are submitting amendments in the same vein, essentially making the same point that we need to strengthen the governance here and look at the expertise, or the range of interests and expertise, of board members.  The question has been asked, where to from here? Obviously, we have a rushed piece of legislation here now. It will go to the Seanad. The Minister of State might indicate in her response whether she has any intention of accepting any amendments or bringing forward amendments herself or whether there is more primary legislation to come. We are dealing with the legislation now. It has been on the horizon for quite some time. The Government should do a far better job in relation to it. The point that has been well made at this stage that the opportunity should have been provided, if the Minister of State and the Government were intent on providing the best piece of legislation, to hear from the AI committee and for scrutiny of the Bill through all of its Stages in these Houses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas as an deis labhairt ar an mBille seo inni\u00fa. As Chair of the AI committee, I think there is some frustration around it. It is mostly procedural. In fairness, the enterprise committee is the statutory committee and it is for that reason that the scheme of the Bill went there for pre-legislative scrutiny. If there was a way that any future Bills or primary legislation would come to the AI committee, that would be extremely helpful because, as colleagues across the House have said, the AI committee has developed an expertise there.  What is frustrating is that the AI committee members were not informed when the scheme of the Bill was being presented at the enterprise committee for pre-legislative scrutiny. It was only by chance that I was in a committee next door, the environment and energy committee, and saw that it was happening and managed to go in.  The reality of the situation, and particularly this point about rushing through legislation, is that when Government is not passing legislation, it is accused of being a do-nothing Government. When it does pass legislation, it is accused of rushing legislation. There has been talk of the AI Bill for a long time now.  The other reality of the situation that people are failing to recognise is that the AI office needs to be stood up by August. There are timelines here that put pressure on Government and, indeed, on the Minister of State to get this passed.  I thank the Minister of State. On Second Stage here this day last week, I would like to think I was constructive rather than critical. The Minister of State wrote to me responding directly to all of the concerns that I had raised. That is how good legislation should be made, with genuine engagement. There has been genuine engagement with the Minister of State in that regard and it speaks well of her stewardship of the Bill.  I particularly welcome the Minister of State's response on the single point of contact. Colleagues have raised it here. I raised it here on Second Stage and it relates to whether our single point of contact will sit comfortably with Article 72, which provides that the contact point should be a market surveillance authority. I am genuinely pleased that in her reply, the Minister of State confirmed that oifig intleacht shaorga na h\u00c9ireann is to be designate as a market surveillance authority through an amendment to the designated regulations that are being finalised. The Minister of State might inform us in her response when those designated regulations will be finalised and whether they could be shared with members of the AI committee and, indeed, with the House. It is a significant and welcome clarification. It gives the office real standing and ensures our framework is firmly aligned with the Act.  I also raised a question of co-ordination between the 15 authorities that will share this work and the role of the co-operation agreements under section 63. I welcome the Minister of State's assurance that the office will be actively responsible for co-ordinating the relevant competent authorities, that it will support joint investigation and enforcement and that it is already building practical protocols through workshops and a co-operation forum. That is reassuring. As Cathaoirleach of the Oireachtas committee on AI, I will follow how that co-ordination works in practice with great interest and see how implementation proceeds. Indeed, we will do that as a committee to ensure that it is working.  On resourcing, I had stressed that Article 73 of the AI Act requires our competent authorities to have adequate technical, financial and human resources. I welcome the Minister of State's agreement that this resourcing is vital, the funding provided in 2026 to establish the office and her assurance that where additional resources are needed, they can be met through the normal Estimates process. The Act comes into force on a phased basis out to December 2028 and that gives us time to get it right. Monitoring resourcing across all the designated authorities as those phases are rolled out is crucial because a framework is only ever as strong as the bodies that deliver it.  I would also ask about the independence of the office, which other colleagues have raised this evening and previously, given that the Minister of State has the power to issue policy directions. I welcome the Minister of State's confirmation that this power is limited and constrained and that it does not extend to the key adjudicative functions, the findings of the adjudicator, the determination of administrative sanctions or the role of the courts. That is an important safeguard.  The Minister of State spoke here already about the area of trust. We need to ensure that trust in this office is built up and that we can trust what is coming out of the office, the chief executive of the office and the board, notwithstanding some of the points that colleagues have made about board composition and expertise.  I believe this Bill will play a significant role in our preparedness for the technological changes we are seeing develop at a rapid pace and want to see it succeed, as I think we all do. The Minister of State has engaged constructively, openly and in good faith and I want to acknowledge that. This is a strong Bill, made stronger by dialogue. As it moves through these final Stages and into the work of implementation, I look forward to continuing to work with the Minister of State and my colleagues on the committee to ensure it delivers for the people we all serve. I commend the Minister of State on bringing the Bill forward.  Finally, on a procedural piece, we received the Bill on Friday and amendments were to be in by Tuesday. That was extremely time-limiting. We should review it in future because a significant piece of legislation takes significant reading to identify where there are issues. If that could be looked at, I would appreciate it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I commend the Minister of State on bringing the Bill to this Stage. Before I speak to the specific amendments, which are around the governance and the board structure, it is important that there has been general collaboration, both at the AI committee and, even more generally, around what we want to achieve with this transformational technology, because what we are debating and talking about here does not impact on merely one Department. It is impacting on virtually all areas of society.  On the collaborative cross-party approach, we will not agree on every issue but I think we agree in general on the principles and about what we want to achieve as a State. We want to support innovation, deepen our understanding of AI, upskill our citizens to be able to avail of and use it, and put in the necessary guardrails to ensure that we can continue to \"trust\" our institutions but also know that the institutions have the safeguards in place to protect us.  Given the nature and importance of the discussion, I would share colleagues' concern that there was insufficient time to consider amendments. Given some of the discussion that we are going through here in a two-hour period, I believe it will be relatively short, particularly because we will only get through discussion of the overall board of this body. That is a bit of a problem. I believe we will be constantly legislating for and examining this space, but the Minister of State in her response has to talk about how we as legislators will be able to have an input. I am very aware the technology is moving quickly. I appreciate we have to get the office up and running. I welcome the fact that the recruitment process for the CEO is ongoing and the Minister of State might update the House as to how that is happening.  Specifically on the amendments, when we talk about the board of any organisation, the most important thing is what the purpose of this organisation is and, therefore, who the best people to sit on that board are. I am always cautious about being overly prescriptive about the membership of the board. What is critical is that this AI office best serves our citizens. I strongly support the approach the Minister of State is taking with regard to a distributed regulatory approach. What we need to do, and colleagues have talked about this, is ensure that our regulators are sufficiently skilled to deal with this.  This cannot be another layer - a supra layer - of regulation on top of existing regulation. By that I mean that someone developing a financial product at present just has to go to the Central Bank for regulation, so if it is an AI-enabled product, the Central Bank should have sufficient regulatory power to be able to deal with this. Where there are gaps between those regulators, this office needs to be able to step in. This is where I think the role of the AI office lies. It is a co-ordinating role between our existing regulators. It also has a critical educational role and a role in building public confidence and trust in the use of AI by the State. It is in those very specific objectives that individuals will be appointed to this board, and it is critical they have that level of public trust and understanding.  While I get where colleagues are coming from, I am always cautious about being overly prescriptive. This is about the objectives of the office and whether the board will best be able to support the chief executive and staff in achieving that.  One thing I am concerned about, which is very important, is the issue of a youth advisory panel to ensure young people are heard in this and can influence the governance structure. The Minister of State and I were quite influential during the online safety legislation debate, as was Deputy Carrigy, on ensuring we had a youth advisory panel to work with the online safety commissioner in Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n. We see it in the Office of the Ombudsman for Children and in other areas. This is critical, particularly for children and young people, who are one of many vulnerable groups, to ensure their voice has input in this.  I would like to hear in the Minister of State's response a commitment to establish a youth advisory panel and an update on the CAO process, and get a clear understanding of what, if this is the board being appointed, the purpose of this organisation is and how those filling it will meet that purpose. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Being honest, I did not intend to speak on these amendments - I was going to wait until later - but when a substantial debate, which should go on for a long period in a committee room, is squeezed into two hours, it invariably turns into Second Stage speeches because it is our last chance to have a say on it. For me, this is the third leg of a bonfire. I know bonfires do not have legs but I am referring to whatever the wooden structures are that go around a serious bonfire. This is the third one we have had in one evening as we burn up our climate targets, the other two being much more obvious, namely, the Bills on LNG and the passenger cap in Dublin Airport. However, this is also part of it.  As regards the section we are dealing with here, the fundamental problem that some of the amendments, and I am assuming the Minister of State will reject them all, attempt to address is the fact that the AI office is not independent and is subordinate to the Department of enterprise. Even the location of the office, subordinate to the Department of enterprise, tells us everything we need to know. This is then fleshed out in the mandate of the AI office and so on. This tells us what the mindset of the Government is in relation to AI is. It is that this is an enterprise issue that is overwhelmingly viewed through that lens. Its view is that this is a train that is moving or has already moved and we all need to get on board, and given that all the companies seem to be doing it, we need to educate all our young people in using AI. That is the whole mindset. I fundamentally disagree with that, as my colleagues on the committee will know.  In general, from where we are currently standing, AI is a force for bad and not good in the world. It is accelerating genocide, climate change and mental health crises, and it is beginning to accelerate significant job loss and displacement. It is eroding workers' autonomy for those who still have jobs, and it is driving misogyny and hate. I do not deny some discrete, positive applications we have heard about for weather forecasting, healthcare and so on, but, as a whole, any objective look at the current impact of this technology will conclude that it is a negative thing. However, what we are seeing in the structure of this Bill, and we will get to the mandate in section 9 shortly, is green for go and doing everything we can to support and promote AI. It very much sees things through an enterprise frame, which is very problematic. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niamh Smyth  I thank all colleagues for their thoughtful contributions and well-placed intentions. I have an array of notes here to help me respond to them as best I can.  Deputies Geoghegan and \u00d3 Cear\u00fail asked questions about the next phase, primary legislation to go with the non-personal data Bill to cover the pre-legislative scrutiny report's recommendations and any amendments needed for the digital omnibus and levy provision for any regulation. The next phase is primary legislation. This legislation is not only critically important but we will need to keep changing it and come back to it many times in future, unlike much of the other legislation that is established and enacted here, for example, planning law, which may be in place for the next 20 years. I cannot imagine that being the case with legislation on AI. I genuinely believe it will develop organically, but we have to start somewhere and this is the somewhere. This is what we are attempting to do tonight. Deputy \u00d3 Cear\u00fail was right that we have a deadline to meet; there is no getting away from that. As regards the Bills and the process, I accept that and will do my best. Unfortunately, I have no authority over the process, as the Bills Office decides that. However, I accept that Deputies feel this is being rushed. I assure them that the next phase is primary legislation, and I will take on board any requests or suggestions. I am happy to work with them on this.  Deputy Gibney said this issue is being viewed entirely through an enterprise lens, and Deputy Paul Murphy said the same thing. I have said numerous times that I am very cognisant of the human-centred aspect. The Deputy might be throwing her eyes up to heaven, but the truth with regard to the AI Act is that fundamental rights are enshrined in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, including rights relating to democracy, the rule of law and environmental protection, which the Deputy called out. Member states must notify the European Commission of the designated authorities to ensure transparency and effective co-operation across the EU. Ireland's fundamental rights authorities include Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n, the Data Protection Commission, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, IHREC, and the Office of the Ombudsman for Children, none of which comes under the Department of enterprise. To be fair, there is a broad scope and I certainly do not come at this issue from that narrow prism of enterprise only. While I am a Minister of State in the Department of enterprise and the office is being created by my Department, I assure Deputies that its autonomy and independence will be absolute in the legislation and there will be an arm's length approach taken to the AI office.  I emphasise that this is a process and not a done deal; it will not be done and dusted tonight. I accept that Deputies would like to have more time. Two committees, the AI and enterprise committees, have responsibility in this regard. The enterprise committee has statutory responsibility for pre-legislative scrutiny. I have no authority over that, but I am always happy to go before the artificial intelligence committee to answer questions and engage in debate and discussion with Deputies. I am waiting on the enterprise committee's pre-legislative scrutiny recommendations and I will be happy to see how we can knit those into the next phase of the legislation. I hope that answers some of the calls that have been made.  The pre-legislative scrutiny process was watched closely by officials. Certain matters have been incorporated, including the carve-outs in section 2 and the inclusion of the requirement for the market surveillance authorities to share the fundamental rights impact analysis reports with the AI office.  However, we stand ready for the report and are eager to take the recommendations in the next phase. I hope that puts to bed concerns that people may have that are raised here tonight.  Deputy Gibney raised the CEO recruitment. I do not pick the CEO. There is a very public, transparent process there, which the Deputy knows full well, I have no doubt. The position was advertised through a Public Appointments Service competition. The competition is at an advanced stage. I can tell the Deputy that, but I do not pick the CEO, so please do not indicate that I do, because I do not. I thank Deputy Gibney for her amendment. However, I do not consider it necessary to introduce a definition of service for the purpose of the Bill. The references to the Public Appointments Service in the Bill are limited in number and are clear and unambiguous in their context. The provisions concerning the appointment of members of the board expressly refer to the Public Appointments Service. There is no difficulty in understanding those references as drafted. As a general principle of legislative drafting, defined terms should only be used when they are necessary to assist the interpretation or operation of legislation. In this instance, introducing a definition of service would not materially improve the readability or operation of the Bill. For those reasons, I do not consider the amendment necessary, and therefore do not propose to accept it.  Regarding amendments Nos. 13, 14, 15, and 16, I thank Deputies Gibney, Lawlor, Conway-Walsh and Geoghegan for their amendments in respect of the board members of the AI office. Deputy Byrne may have raised this too. I recognise the objective behind the amendments, namely, to ensure a highly transparent, merit-based appointments process and a broad range of expertise on the board. I agree with these objectives. Indeed, the Bill already provides for a Public Appointments Service process and requires that both initial and future appointments be made, having regard to the experience and capacity of prospective members in matters connected with the functions of the office. In other words, we will be looking to ensure that the expertise required as technology develops is there.  Many of the procedural requirements proposed in amendment No. 15 are already provided for under the Government's guidelines on appointments to State bodies. Those guidelines require open advertising of vacancies, publication of the criteria for the appointment, and the independent assessment process conducted by the Public Appointments Service. I do not consider it necessary to prescribe these operational details in primary legislation. However, the existing provisions provide the appropriate degree of flexibility for a newly established organisation. The office is being created in the context of emerging technology and an entirely new regulatory framework across the EU, with access to independent AI experts becoming available through the EU scientific panel. It is important that the appointments process can evolve in response to the practical needs of the organisation as it develops. I do not consider it appropriate at this stage to prescribe in primary legislation detailed requirements in relation to the appointments procedures, selection panels, or particular categories of expertise.  That said, I am sympathetic to the intention. As the office matures and gains operational experience, it is important to keep under review the mix of expertise and experience required for its effective and efficient performance, and to seek to adapt accordingly. In that context, matters such as the board's composition and expertise requirements could be considered in a future phase of the office's development, should experience demonstrate a need for additional statutory measures. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I have tabled a second amendment regarding the chief executive officer. It is clear on page 22 of the Bill, which states, \"The Office shall have a chief executive officer\". It talks about the Public Appointments Service recruiting the board, then states:  (3) Notwithstanding subsection (2) , the Minister may, before the establishment day, designate a person to be the first Chief Executive Officer.  (4) Where, immediately before the establishment day, a person stands designated by the Minister under subsection (3), the person shall, on that day, stand appointed as the first Chief Executive Officer for such period, not exceeding 5 years from the date of his or her appointment, as the Minister may determine.  The Minister then gets to appoint the first chief executive officer. My issue is that this is where the independence starts or does not start when an office like this is established. Once again, I have done this. The Government can outsource this to the Public Appointments Service. It can detach the hiring body from the recruitment process by strengthening the role of the Public Appointments Service in it, and it has chosen not to do that. In fact, it has done the reverse, and it has given the Minister more authority for the appointment of the first chief executive officer. In those first five terms, the Government is going to establish and basically set in stone how that organisation operates. The level of influence of that first CEO is heavy for the future of the organisation. The Minister of State has talked about this not being dusted tonight, but this is legislation. Of course it is organic and we will have to revisit it over the years, of which there is no question, but this is the shot. This is the time we get to do it. We are offering genuine, researched, evidence-based amendments and they are not being heard. The Minister of State is not interested and she is offering a tiny amount of time to discuss complex legislation and a set of complex amendments, which demonstrates to me that she has no interest.  It is great to hear that the Minister of State is sending letters out to everyone. I did not get a letter since Second Stage last week and I raised a number of concerns. I do not know if anybody else in the Opposition got any letters. It is great that Deputies \u00d3 Cear\u00fail, Byrne and Geoghegan all got letters, but I would have liked one too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  I did not get a letter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  Deputy \u00d3 Cear\u00fail got a letter. I did not get a letter. I have received no engagement in this process. My issue is that the Minister of State is not listening. She is not understanding what we are trying to say, and that independence is key. All of the other market surveillance authorities she is mentioning, and the fundamental rights bodies identified through the AI Act and the legislation as part of the structure are all well and good, but the AI office is the authority. By this legislation, it is essentially a part of the Department of enterprise. The Minister can interfere in it. The CEO cannot even come to a committee and comment on Government activities. That is not independent.  Deputy Geoghegan referred to the dual role of this office, which is on one hand supposed to be the regulator and, on the other, supposed to promote AI. That in itself is already a conflict, which I have a difficulty with. The AI office should be distinct. The Data Protection Commission has better independence than this body, which is being set up now. The Minister of State mentioned the Data Protection Commission, which is under the aegis of the Department of justice, and Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n, under the aegis of the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport, and now we have this one under the aegis of the Department of enterprise. The other two already do not work, because Grok happened and nothing has been done to combat it. We are now creating a third leg to this bonfire. It just makes no sense and it certainly does not strengthen any independence. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  To address what Deputy Gibney said, I do not think it is fair to say that the Minister of State is not listening. At the end of the day, the Minister of State is sitting in the Chamber and responding to the amendments that have been made. She may not agree with the amendments but she is listening. I would say that Deputy Gibney should at least acknowledge that when the Minister of State comes before our committee, she listens to us. She may have a different opinion but I do not think that is a fair charge to level against her. The Minister of State referred to another Bill which I did not catch fully. Is it the personal data Bill? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niamh Smyth  The non-personal data Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  Am I right that at one stage, there was a proposal that that Bill would be included in the Bill now before these House, and a decision was taken to split those Bills? Is it the Minister of State's position now that, when that Bill is brought before these Houses, it may also include amendments to this Bill, based on what was said in the pre-legislative scrutiny? I see lots of nodding going on, which encourages me. In fairness to Deputy \u00d3 Cear\u00fail, he highlighted the deadline for establishing the AI office, which is why the Bill is before us today, to meet that deadline. The EU Presidency starts tomorrow. It gives me some encouragement about when the next Bill, albeit not the AI Bill, comes before these Houses. I ask, specifically with regard to that Bill, that we create some kind of structure, although I do not know how would be created, where the Minister of State could come before the AI committee to have direct discussion of whatever form, be it informal or otherwise, if it is not done within the strictures of how Standing Orders are established.  Then, after the fact, maybe through the Chair and others, we could long at a more long-term structure for the AI committee to have a more formal legislative role. I acknowledge that would require changes to Standing Orders and engagement with the relevant internal committees. Ultimately, there is probably a recognition, even if the Minister of State looks around the Chamber, that most of the Deputies in the Chamber today are members of the AI committee. Even when we heard from members of the enterprise committee, such as Deputy Conway-Walsh, she acknowledged that the AI committee has an essential role and that we are building a level of expertise in this respect. Perhaps the next model could be this next Bill, and thereafter we might come back with a way in which this could be done. I hear what the Minister of State is saying in terms of being prescriptive about who should sit on the board. I understand the board and the Public Appointments Service, when it appoints people to the board, will ultimately reflect the overall goals of the Act.  I disagree with Deputy Gibney. I fundamentally believe that the AI office should have a dual role. We need a statutory agency in this State that has a role in terms of the delivery of AI literacy across the board, at least to provide direction, just in the same way that regulatory divergence is provided in terms of all of the relevant agencies that are going to regulate the implementation of the EU AI Act. It should also be the case that we have a central agency that can at least give pointers to the Department of education, the Department of enterprise, the Minister of State's own Department and the Department of further and higher education. We need that kind of umbrella, overarching view because we know that AI, at a governmental level, will be implemented and is being implemented and adapted through every form of policy in areas like health, education and enterprise. I think it is a good and positive thing that we would have a statutory agency that would have both of those functions. I do not see how it dilutes investigatory and enforcement practices. There are plenty of other examples within this State where an agency has an investigatory role, a regulatory role and an advocacy role. If the Deputy reads the legislation in full, it is quite clear that the two things are very separate, and that in the performance of its regulatory functions in terms of its enforcement activity, it would be entirely independent. On the flip side, when it comes to advocacy, it is right and proper that the Government would have a role in providing some level of direction that would reflect the AI policies that are being implemented at each departmental level and that the AI office could be supported within that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  It is unfair to say that the Minister of State has not been listening because I think she has. What I would say to Deputy Gibney is that the legislation provides for the formal appointment by the Minister following a process, which is pretty standard. In fairness, I recall this role being advertised on publicjobs.ie . LinkedIn actually recommended it to me at one stage. The closing date for this was at the end of March. It would be useful to assure the House, particularly if we are looking at this office being up and running within a month - the Minister of State said that the process is coming toward a conclusion - when we will actually know who the CEO-designate is going to be. The closing date for the process was three months ago. The Minister of State is expecting it to go through publicjobs.ie . I appreciate that the Minister of State's signature is the final signature that goes on that and she does not have a role in picking the individual, but Deputy Gibney and others have made the point that whoever takes that role, because they are going to be there for the first five years, will be shaping the direction of the office. In the context of this legislation, it would be useful for the Minister of State to give us a clear indication of when the name of that individual will be known and the CEO-designate will be appointed. Again, I agree with the overall context of not being overly prescriptive, as time goes on, when we are recruiting for board members. The Minister of State might outline when that recruitment process is going to start on the basis of this legislation. I accept the Minister of State's bona fides. I agree that we should not be overly prescriptive. In her response, the Minister of State might come back to the youth advisory panel issue as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I have two points. One is the point that Deputy Gibney made. The Minister of State denied that she gets to appoint the CEO. For now, until the establishment of the board, she has total power in appointing the CEO. That is the truth. That is what is set out in the legislation. Afterwards, she still gets to pick the CEO. She picks the CEO from a shortlist, which is done by the Public Appointments Service, but she does pick them. The Minister of State may feel free to correct me if I am wrong in that. I am not sure her strong rebuttal of Deputy Gibney really holds up.  My second point is that probably the worst thing in this Bill is the inclusion of the mandate of promoting and fostering AI innovation and literacy in the AI office. This is financial regulator stuff, where the financial regulator was promoting finance and simultaneously regulating finance. You cannot be poacher and gamekeeper at the same time. They point in opposite directions. If the Government wants to have a body whose job it is to promote AI literacy and so on, it can knock itself out, but it should not be the same person and office that is supposed to be regulating and ensuring this does not cause harm to society. That is the whole problem here. It will have both the good mandate and the bad mandate set up together in this one office. It is sitting under the auspices of, and not really independent of, the Department of enterprise, which is very much on one side of that equation. That is the fundamental problem. The Minister of State can make the case to have people advocating for fostering AI innovation and literacy and so on, but the idea that the body carrying out that function will also be the regulator is very problematic. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Artificial intelligence has made particular strides and jumps. It is in a place where we never anticipated being, if we are talking about two years ago. What we see across the board in the amendments is that they are about ensuring we have an AI office which has the capacity to be able to deliver whatever delivery looks like. A number of people, including Deputy Conway-Walsh, have said we need a huge level of skill sets. Obviously that includes technical skills, but skills are needed beyond that because artificial intelligence will cross every boundary we can possibly think of. The question around an element of independence is obviously vital, given the history we have with regulation in this State if we think back to the financial crisis, which Deputy Murphy and others have spoken about. I also highlight the other aspect of the issue. We have seen in the public domain that the Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy Lawless, had a roundtable meeting with Meta, OpenAI, Microsoft and a number of others. I think everyone welcomes the fact that conversations are ongoing with stakeholders, but we would also like to think that there will be an element of independence and that we will make determinations on what is best for Ireland, for the Irish people and more widely beyond that.  Nearly every time we speak about artificial intelligence, we talk about the dangers of job displacement, which we have seen recently. Covalen is an example. We have also seen it in the case of PayPal. As much as the Minister of State will get official denials in this regard, I think it is fairly straightforward. That is not taking away from the huge room for innovation that exists. It is not taking away from the huge realities of how this can have a positive impact on healthcare in everything from diagnostics to organisation. It is vital that we have a system, a framework and an AI office that can drive this on and is able to deal with all of this. It is going to be difficult to deal with the whole issue of regulation and the fact that we want to see maximum utilisation in relation to artificial intelligence. Unfortunately, we have all seen Donald Trump's attempts to curtail technologies within the American sphere that he might not want to necessarily share out without a huge price to be paid, which we may not be willing to pay. We are in the early days. We are talking about a technology that is going to move on.  It is making sure we also have capacity in that. We are discussing with stakeholders and big tech, some of whom have the ear of the American President and not necessarily in a positive way. I heard the timeline they are looking for will be much faster than what had been planned by the State. I ask that the Government does do everything it can to ensure that it has the best framework for delivering, notwithstanding there will be multiple changes because we can come up with any plan we like but it will change because this is a vastly evolving technology, which will encompass almost every facet of life. That means it is really important that we ensure we play our part in relation to regulation and seeing those dangers. We have seen the dangers related to social media companies in the recent past. This is about stating the protections we want to see, combined with the capacity, are contained in the AI office.  I would also add my voice to what many others have said. As much as we want to see strategies and a framework put in place quickly, nobody appreciates the rushed nature of legislation and the way that a number of Bills have been dealt with recently in this House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niamh Smyth  I thank everybody for their comments. On the AI office CEO appointment, I reassure Deputies that it is an independent process that is coming to a conclusion. I will inform them when that appointment has been made. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Erin McGreehan)  Does Deputy Gibney wish to press the amendment? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  No, I will move to the next one. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment, by leave, withdrawn."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Section 2 agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Sections 3 to 8, inclusive, agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"SECTION 9"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Erin McGreehan)  Amendments Nos. 2 to 10, inclusive, are related and will be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I move amendment No. 2:  In page 13, line 34, after \u201cfoster\u201d to insert \u201cethical and responsible\u201d.  These are examples of constructive amendments. Amendment No. 2 seeks to bring in a balance where by adding the phrase \u201cethical and responsible\u201d so that it changes the remit of the office from fostering AI innovation and literacy to fostering ethical and responsible AI innovation and literacy. That is an example of the kind of balance we are looking for and that we have lip service paid to all the time but that has never been demonstrated as a meaningful commitment by this Government.  Amendment No. 3 enhances the publication powers for the AI office. This is an issue with many State agencies that have a regulatory function. They are prohibited from publishing their findings. I cite the example of the Inspector of Prisons and IHREC, which has issues with codes of practice. There are so many ways in which the work of these agencies as regulatory bodies is hampered because the publication powers they have are not adequate. If we actually want a regulator with teeth who will be able to call out issues when it wishes to, we need to provide it with publication power to do so. Again, all it is doing is strengthening independence. If the Government actually wants an independent regulator that is able to deal with the responsibilities that it is trying to give it, then it needs to give it the powers to match. That is what the amendment tries to do. It simply enhances that publication power.  I hope these amendments can be taken in the spirit in which they are intended, which is constructive. These are simple amendments that can enhance this legislation. I am guessing by the tone of this debate so far that none of these amendments will be accepted by the Government. It is not just this debate but the whole evening - we are in the sixth hour of supposed debates - is just theatre for the Government. We get to discuss these amendments and, as Deputy Murphy said, it becomes like Second Stage because we are all just speaking in the knowledge that we will not get to the substantive amendments we want to deal with and engage with.  I put these forward in good faith and I hope the Minister of State will engage with them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  Amendments Nos. 4, 8 and 9 concern small and medium-sized businesses. They aim to expand the statutory functions of the AI office so that it not only regulates AI but also provides guidance, training and technical assistance support for small businesses, particularly SMEs, to comply with the AI Act and to adopt AI responsibly. The AI office should be more than just an enforcement body. It should offer an education and support function to help businesses to understand what is expected of them. These amendments attempt to rebalance the legislation by placing compliance support alongside enforcement. Most businesses that this legislation will impact will be SMEs. They will need clear guidance and accessible training if they are to comply confidently with the new regulatory framework. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  Amendment No. 5 speaks to the promotion of responsible adoption of AI systems in workplaces and protects the legal rights of employees. A lot of people out there are very fearful of AI and what it will bring to the workplace. The amendment is geared towards the protection of existing employees and ensuring nothing we are doing through the establishment of this office will undermine that. It also calls for monitoring the use of AI systems for the purpose of workforce management, not to hand over AI to management to undermine existing workers and their rights and obligations under this Act and under artificial intelligence regulations.  We also need to encourage and support the provision of training, reskilling and upskilling opportunities. This is vital in the current climate. There is a lot of fear among the entire population as to where AI is going in relation to the rights of workers and how this might be undermined unless there is strong legislation in place to ensure their rights and opportunities are strengthened.  Amendment No. 7 speaks to our national climate objectives. We have already seen legislation pushed through this evening that abandoned a lot of our climate objectives. This amendment seeks to insert the following subsection:  the need to ensure that the development and adoption of AI systems in the State is consistent with the national climate objective within the meaning of the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015, having particular regard to the energy consumption and environmental impact associated with the training, operation and deployment of AI systems.  We all know the impact AI will have on energy and water consumption in particular. We have to be cognisant of that in this legislation. I ask the Minister of State to do that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  To clarify, where amendments are grouped, is the order in which the amendments are proposed that Members are called or do we have to indicate every time? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Erin McGreehan)  The Deputy must indicate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  My amendments relate to section 9(1)(c), which sets out the function of the office to \u201cpromote and foster AI innovation and literacy\u201d and tries to provide more clarity as to what that will look like and mean.  Perhaps in her reply to the Minister of State might address the two subsequent provisions of the Act, namely, sections 10 and 11. One is about the Minister\u2019s ability to give an order to the AI office and the other is about the ability of the Minister to give a direction to the AI office. As I understand the provision, the Minister would have to lay before the Houses any direction that he or she might give and in respect of those directions, none of those can relate to the actual regulatory enforcement function. It is going back to the promoting and fostering AI innovation and literacy point.  My first question is what the difference is between a direction and an order and how those two elements will interplay. I also ask that as there is a statutory obligation in respect of directions, those directions would be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas. I ask now, in contemplation of this secondary Bill the Minister of State is promoting, that she might consider an amendment to the personal data Bill she referred to in terms of the amendment of this Act, whereby the relevant committee, that is, the Oireachtas AI committee, would be the committee that would get to view and examine these directions or at least have some form of pre-legislative scrutiny function in respect of those directions. That is down to the knitting and the weeds of what we are doing in the AI committee. We are examining policies across every Department as they relate to AI. Quite clearly, any direction the Minister gives to this AI office will concern the implementation and adaptation of AI policy across a world of areas from education to health and enterprise.  I acknowledge the logic of Deputy Murphy's point about the Central Bank at one point having a dual function of regulating and of promoting Ireland as a centre for financial services. After the financial crash that dual function was got rid of and the Central Bank solely had a role in respect of the regulating of financial services. However, while there is a logic to the argument, I view these issues as entirely separate. It boils down to two different philosophies present in this House and often in our committee in respect of AI. Ultimately, for Ireland to remain competitive we must examine how AI is being adapted and we must be ahead of others in how that AI adaptation is improving competitiveness. Separately, in an agile way we have to be extremely conscious of how AI is impacting young people in education at primary and secondary level and in further and higher education. We have to be agile in the impact AI is having on future jobs for graduates coming out of college, people trying to enter college and people who are not entering college at all, to know the types of jobs we are going to have in the future. We must be agile in order that we can mandate and direct policy to ensure that we can be responsive to the disruption that AI is causing and will cause and yet harness the benefits it is going to bring. I do not think there is a fair analogy between the two things, which are financial services and AI. AI has enormous risks and potential. It almost sounds cliched to keep repeating these phrases but as Members of the Oireachtas, we are being brought on a journey in our assessment of how AI is impacting society and the thematic approach we have adopted on the committee. The general public is using AI at some of the highest levels in Europe right now and yet they have equal levels of concern and mistrust. SMEs in Ireland at OECD level apparently are doing reasonably okay. We are a bit higher and yet there is still a low level of adaptation of AI.  There are whole areas of our society and country where we need to bring people on a journey. There needs to be trust and it needs to be done in a coherent way. The AI office in my view is the appropriate body to do it. Where there is this statutory function where the Minister can direct through a direction or order and where there is a role for the Oireachtas in respect of these directions or order, it would be helpful to know, even at this early stage, what kinds of directions the Minister or Minister of State might be contemplating giving the AI office. It obviously has to comport with the goals of AI literacy. Are draft directions already being considered or made? There is also the separate point I am making that if the Minister is accountable to the Houses of the Oireachtas in respect of the directions, a formal statutory role be given to the AI committee and that this be contemplated in the context of any provisions that might be put forward in the personal data Bill the Minister of State referred to earlier. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I am proposing amendment No. 6 but it speaks to the broader set of amendments. It is about what the purpose of the artificial intelligence office is. I might thread the contentions of Deputy Murphy and Deputy Geoghegan. I agree somewhat with Deputy Murphy that if the role of this office and the ecosystem we are creating is a distributive regulatory model, our critical point is about ensuring that the existing regulators are strong enough to manage their own sectors and that this body is a co-ordinating and enabling body. I would be worried if this starts to become a \u201cthou shalt not\u201d regulator because if it does, it will not support that agility in respect of Deputy Geoghegan's point about how we can help support business and enterprise. What it has to do is ensure that if you are an enterprise developing an AI product or service, you know you have an existing regulator that you deal with and are responsible to it. The role of this office, which is why I proposed this amendment, is that where the gaps may fall with those existing authorities, it will be in a position to identify the gaps and make the decisions. Part of how I see its role is that if an SME wants to look at deploying AI to deliver its goods or services more effectively or efficiently, this office will support and enable it in being able to do it. It will be able to have guided it through the process. It will make sure that the regulators are doing their jobs. It speaks to our vision as to where the office is. I see it as having more of a promotional and enabling role.  I know where Deputy Murphy is coming from on conflicts of interest and I think that could happen. However, I believe it will inhibit innovation if there are essentially two layers of regulation. That is something we certainly want to avoid. A lot of Deputy Gibney's amendments are well intentioned. I support the idea of including ethical and responsible in what we need to do. It is a culture we need to embed. I am one of those who sees the enormous potential of AI but it all depends on how we use it. Having an ethical and responsible framework is critical and we need to embed that in enterprise as much as in healthcare, education and other spaces. I think this speaks to all of the amendments. This office should be an enabling office. It should be able to help all of us as citizens and all enterprises around the country to know how best to responsibly, ethically and safely use AI to deliver better services for our citizens or our customers. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  It is appropriate that I speak at this stage because I think that gets to the point. I think the Government agrees with the Deputy that it wants to set up an enabling office. That is the wrong way to go. Fundamentally we need a \u201cthou shalt not\u201d regulating office to try to protect the citizens from the potentially negative impact of AI. I will speak to two of the amendments. I support Deputy Gibney's amendment on adding in the promotion of the responsible use of AI as opposed to the current proposal we have. It is amendment No. 2 and speaks of \u201cethical and responsible\u201d.  I presume we are going to hear that we are not going to get that, but it is really not too much to ask.  Second, Deputy Lawlor's amendment No. 7 on the climate impact of AI is extremely important. Last week we had Jennie Stephens and Hannah Daly in. It is funny and I have quoted this to a few people who have been in. KPMG has a report whereby it surveys chief executives of companies and asks what they think about AI and 95% of them say that AI is really going to help us deal with climate change. I do not know why we are asking the chief executives. Let us ask climate scientists if AI is going to help us deal with climate change. I have not found one yet that says yes. Everyone says this is really a problem in terms of climate change. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  A climate scientist was at the AI committee advocating for AI. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Erin McGreehan)  Through the Chair. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  Sorry. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Does Deputy Geoghegan mean the weather forecasting guy? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  His main thing was to say this is not like the large language models, LLMs. I did not disagree with anything he said but I do not think he was making the general case that is being made that somehow AI is going to help us to deal with climate change. If we roll out the argument that a combination of AI and a stable demand for energy is going to promote investment in renewables, and load management and so on will happen at a better scale, I really think it is magical thinking. I do not think we are going to find climate scientists to make that case. Instead, what we heard from Jennie Stephens was that AI is preventing the phase-out of fossil fuels. The rapid deployment of AI has led to a dramatic increase in fossil fuel exploration, extraction and burning. The thing that struck me is that AI is being used to make fossil fuel exploration and extraction more efficient in a sense. Professor Stephens also said, \"Tech companies are also collaborating with the fossil fuel industry to develop AI tools used to accelerate fossil fuel exploration and allow fossil fuels to be extracted more quickly and cheaply\". She argued \"AI promotes climate obstruction\" and denial, delay and distraction. I thought this point was very strong: \"Tech companies are now deploying many of the same strategies that the fossil fuel industry has used to squash public concern and block climate policy\", strategically squashing research, discussion and awareness about the environmental impacts of AI.  We also heard from Professor Hannah Daly about the reality many of us have been pointing out for a long time, which is that all the extra renewables we are adding to the grid are just being sucked up by the data centres over an extended period. For me, it did crystallise something and I felt our guests today were trapped in this a bit. Often, there is just the illusion that somehow adding more renewable capacity, in and of itself, is in some way dealing with climate change but it is not. We can add all the renewables that we want but as long as we keep expanding usage we are not getting any closer to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The climate does not really care if we have a whole load of renewables happening over here but we are still increasing or sustaining the same level of greenhouse gas burning. The amendment is good because it says that this should be central and that the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act has to apply here. We have had it disapplied on a number of occasions this evening. That is what we are generally doing this evening, but AI has to be consistent with our supposedly legally binding climate targets. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  We are all aware of the huge dangers, which I will reiterate. The big one at the minute is the number of people who are worried \u2013 not from a technical point of view \u2013 about losing their job. If we are talking about an AI office, we must ensure there is significant capacity and that it engages with the State and all of its agencies from the point of view of fostering the skill sets that are required to ensure we can deliver AI solutions to improve workplaces and innovation within companies and everywhere else. A number of the amendments relate to this.  We must make sure that we have an overall eye on the development of artificial intelligence and its dangers. We have seen issues with Grok, etc. We do not know where the new-found dangers will be. The fact is that we are talking about a huge amount of information and how it is taken from those who provide it, whether willingly and knowingly, and then how it is utilised. That is why it is absolutely vital that we have a framework that is ethical and responsible. I have not heard anyone speak against that. We hardly want it not to be ethical and to be irresponsible.  We all recognise and have spoken about where there are obvious wins from the point of view of artificial intelligence for companies. As much as there are dangers within education, huge wins are obviously possible. It is about ensuring that the AI office has capacity for a framework to provide training, due diligence and instruction where necessary. It might not necessarily be through the AI office. The Acting Chair, Deputy McGreehan, and I spoke before about the use of the likes of Skillnet. We know that this has to be something that is delivered across all the local enterprise offices, LEOs, Enterprise Ireland and the IDA. It is about ensuring that the capacity, ambition and remit is there within the AI office and that we make sure that those within the AI office, as the previous set of amendments proposed, have the skill sets and capacity.  In some respects we have had very little conversation. There has been talk about the need for the AI office to be up and running and the fact that primary legislation is needed, including to deal with issues that might not necessarily be addressed here and now, but I have heard little in relation to the AI strategy, how we develop that, and what sort of timeline we are talking about. I am going to return to the meeting with OpenAI, Microsoft, Meta and Dell. I assume there were many others there. We definitely do not want a scenario and situation where we are being directed by them. I do not think people will give out about the fact that there is a conversation but I assume it is also about making sure there is transparency in relation to that and what we are proposing around the timeline for the AI strategy. I accept that no strategy that we put in play is going to remain static right through. I am interested in seeing that.  I get that, to a degree, we are all talking in generalities because even when we talk specifically to amendments I am fairly sure that we are not going to see any amendments accepted. Could we have some indication of the trajectory of what is being sought by the amendments as regards an ethical and responsible framework, ensuring that the capacity is there within the AI office, that there is a sufficient amount of independence and that we can deliver a strategy that works? We all know the necessity of a feedback loop and the constant change that will occur. While there may be engagement with the likes of the companies the Minister of State met, we must not be directed by them. That piece is vital. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niamh Smyth  I thank colleagues very much for their amendments. I will try to go through each and every one. The purpose of section 9(1)(c) is to provide a broad statement of the office's function to promote and foster AI innovation and literacy. The Bill is intended to give effect to the EU AI Act and in doing so it is important that the language used in the Bill remains consistent with the terminology and objectives of the underlying regulation.  Article 1 of the EU AI Act states that its purpose \"is to improve the functioning of the internal market and promote the uptake of human-centric and trustworthy artificial intelligence (AI), while ensuring a high level of protection of health, safety, fundamental rights ... and supporting innovation.\"  The regulation, therefore, already embodies the principle that Deputy Gibney's amendment seeks to advance.  In addition, neither \"ethical\" nor \"responsible\" is defined in the AI Act or in the Bill. Introducing these terms in a single provision without definition and without corresponding usage elsewhere in the legislative framework could create uncertainty as to whether a different or additional standard is intended to apply to the office's functions. I consider that the existing reference to promoting and fostering AI innovation and literacy is sufficiently broad and that the wider framework of the AI Act already ensures that innovation is pursued in a manner that is human-centric, trustworthy and protective of fundamental rights. Accordingly, I do not consider the amendment necessary and I do not propose to accept it.  While I appreciate the intention behind the amendment, these concepts are already inherent in the AI Act framework, and the current drafting is clear and consistent with the language of the underlying regulation. Recital 8 of the AI Act states the regulation supports the objective of promoting the European-centric approach to AI and making the Union a global leader in the development of secure, trustworthy and ethical AI, reflecting the conclusions adopted by the European Council in October 2020. The same recital further notes that the regulation ensures the protection of ethical principles, reflecting recommendations made by the European Parliament in its October 2020 resolution on the ethical aspects of artificial intelligence, robotics and related technologies.  Moving to amendment No. 3, the Bill already considers a number of the provisions designed to ensure transparency and accountability in the performance of the office's function, including requirements to prepare a strategy statement and an annual report, both of which must be published. In addition, section 9(4) provides that the office shall have all such powers as are necessary or expedient for the performance of its functions.  Where research, analysis or the publication of reports is required to support the exercise of these functions, the office would already be able to undertake such activities. The proposed amendment would introduce a broad stand-alone function to prepare and publish reports on research undertaken, sponsored, commissioned or assisted by the office. It is not clear what additional legal effect this would have, particularly as the office would already be capable of publishing research or reports in support of the performance of its statutory functions, including but not limited to functions under section 9(1)(c) and 9(1)(d) to promote AI innovation and literacy and to enhance public awareness. I am confident the Bill already provides an appropriate framework and that the amendment is not necessary.  The Government is conscious that the office is being established as a new body and its functions may evolve as the AI regulatory framework becomes more established and operational experience is gained. For this reason, the Bill seeks to provide an appropriate foundation while avoiding unnecessary prescription in the activities the office may already undertake in support of existing functions. I am nonetheless sympathetic to the objective underlining the amendment. The role of research, evidence-gathering and public reporting in supporting effective AI governance will be kept under constant review by the office as it develops and as its work programme matures. Should there be a demonstrated need to place such activities on a more explicit statutory footing in future, this can be considered in light of operational experience. Accordingly, while I appreciate the intention behind the amendment and the value of research in informing AI policy and regulation, I am satisfied the Bill already provides the office with sufficient flexibility in this regard and I do not propose to accept the amendment at this time.  On amendment No. 4, section 9(1)(c) provides that the office shall promote and foster AI innovation and literacy and section 9(1)(d) provides that it shall enhance public awareness of the use of AI systems and the rights and obligations under the artificial intelligence regulation. These functions complement the range of supports that are provided for in the AI Act at EU level, including guidelines, codes of practice and a service desk, which are intended to support and reinforce consistent implementation of harmonised rules across the EU. I am satisfied that these provisions already capture the proposed paragraphs (h), (i) and (j), and reinstating them in granular subparagraphs would result in legislative duplication without adding substantive legal effect.  The Bill, through section 46, provides for the establishment of one or more AI regulatory sandboxes in accordance with Article 57 of the EU AI Act, with priority access to SMEs and start-ups free of charge, as mandated by Article 62 of the regulation. The sandbox function is the primary structural vehicle through which the office will support SME compliance, provide guidance and technical assistance and reduce regulatory barriers to AI adoption. The proposed paragraph (k) duplicates this as it is already embedded in the sandbox and real-world testing framework provided for in Chapter 3 of Part 3. Section 9(1)(f) already requires that the office is to provide advice to the Minister on any matter relating to its functions. The proposed paragraph (j) requiring the office to provide advice and technical assistance to the Minister, competent authorities, businesses and organisations is repetition of the existing function. Section 10 confers on the Minister power to assign additional functions to the office by ministerial order following consultation with the office and relevant Ministers. This ensures that the office's functions can evolve responsibly to align with wider national policy priorities.  While I understand the sentiment behind amendment No. 5, I am satisfied the protections are already guaranteed under the AI Act, which has direct effect in Ireland. Asserting them as part of the AI office would not strengthen them but merely duplicate what is already binding in law. The Act completely prohibits AI systems that infer employees' emotions in the workplace or educational institutions. It also bans biometric categorisations that infer sensitive traits. The AI Act imposes a binding obligation on employers as deployers of high-risk AI systems to inform workers' representatives and affected workers before putting such systems into use in the workplace. Similarly, AI-driven decisions on employment status must have meaningful human oversight. Workers have the right to demand human intervention, obtain an explanation for a decision and contest adverse outcomes.  The AI Act is very clear on its interplay with other EU and national legislation. It explicitly calls out that the harmonised rules laid down in the AI Act should apply across sectors and in line with the new legislative framework, they should be without prejudice to existing Union law, in particular on data protection, consumer protection, fundamental rights, employment, protection of workers and product safety, to which the AI Act is complementary. Recital 9 of the AI states that, in the context of employment and the protection of workers, this regulation should not affect Union law on social policy and national labour law. Further, it states the regulation should not affect the exercise of fundamental rights as recognised by the member states and at Union level. Worker reskilling and upskilling in the context of AI adoption is already a matter of active Government policy, addressed through the national AI strategy, SOLAS, Skillnet Ireland, the National Training Fund and the further and higher education system in its broad mandate. The office will complement this work and work in co-operation with the relevant State actors active in this area.  The point made by Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa is correct and it emphasises the cross-party and horizontal impact the Government is having on AI. The meeting he referred to is the round-table conversation the Minister, Deputy Lawless, had on enterprise, with many stakeholders around the table. It was specifically on the gaps we need to fill and whether they are widening or narrowing. Admittedly, there is a widening between SMEs and the bigger companies which have all of these systems in place. We were rightly taking a look at how we can address this with Skillnet Ireland, our ETBs, SOLAS and many other training agencies.  To respond to the point made by Deputy Lawlor, the Bill seeks to provide an appropriate foundation while avoiding unnecessary measures. I am satisfied the AI Act already provides appropriate safeguards in the workplace and I do not propose to accept the amendment at this time.  Turning to amendment No. 6, I agree that it is important that the emerging issues in AI regulation are identified early and that the regulators work together and effectively in responding to new challenges. The office is being established primarily to support the implementation and co-ordination of the AI Act in the State. Its functions include co-ordinating competent authorities, facilitating co-operation and information sharing, supporting enforcement activities and advising the Minister on matters relating to its functions. These functions already place the office in a strong position to identify emerging issues and share information across the regulatory system. The amendment would go further by assigning the office a potentially broad and undefined role in \"addressing [areas] where regulation may not be covered by existing authorities\". It is unclear what legal or operational action that would entail and how it would interact with the responsibilities of the Oireachtas, the Government, Ministers and sectoral regulators.  The creation of new regulatory frameworks, the allocation of regulatory responsibilities and the identification of legislative gaps are primarily matters for the Government and the Oireachtas. The role of the office is to support effective implementation of the existing framework established by the AI Act and this Bill. That said, I acknowledge the concern underlined in the amendment. As the AI ecosystem evolves, the office's practical experience and engagement with competent authorities will place it in a valuable position to identify emerging regulatory issues and advise the Government accordingly. Indeed, section 9(1)(f) empowers the office to provide advice to the Minister on matters relating to its functions.  Amendment No. 7 is provided for under the EU AI Act, which introduces the provisions concerning energy consumption and transparency. Providers of the general purpose AI models are required to document the known or estimated energy consumption of their models as part of their technical documentation obligations under annex XI of the AI Act. To support this, the European Commission is currently undertaking work to develop a robust and practical framework for the measuring of AI energy consumption and efficiency. Moreover, the Bill requires the office to have regard to the \"policies and objectives of the Government and any Minister of the Government insofar as the policies and objectives may affect or relate to the functions of the Office\". This provision is broad and captures wide Government policies, including climate.  The AI Act is clear and strong in its emphasis on its application in accordance with the values of the Union enshrined in the charter, facilitating the protection of natural persons, undertakings, democracy, the rule of law and environmental protection in the uptake of trustworthy AI. The Government is conscious that the functions of the office may evolve over time but it is important to avoid unnecessary duplication in relation to its function. The amendment is therefore unnecessary, and I will not be in a position to accept it.  While I understand the sentiment behind amendments Nos. 8 and 9, I am satisfied that the section, within its broad mandate, places obligations on the office to promote AI innovation, adoption and competitiveness. The Bill also requires that the AI office is established to supervise AI regulatory sandboxes in accordance with Article 57 of the EU AI Act. The sandbox framework is specifically designed to provide a structured environment for innovation and testing and development, practically benefiting SMEs and start-ups that may lack the resources of larger enterprises to navigate compliance independently. The EU AI Act's sandbox provision was deliberately designed with SMEs in mind and the Bill faithfully implements that framework.  In relation to the amendment regarding annual reports, the Bill provides a comprehensive accountability framework that achieves this purpose. Section 38 requires the office to prepare a strategy statement every three years setting out key objectives, outputs and strategies, including a review of previous performance. Section 40 requires that the office submit an annual report on the performance of its functions in such form and including such information as the office considers appropriate or as the Minister directs. I am satisfied that the proposed objectives of the amendment are captured within the core functions of the office. Reasserting them would merely restate what is there, maybe in more elaborate terms. Accordingly, I do not accept the amendments.  Amendment No. 10 would require the office to take such measures as it considers necessary to advance the objectives specified in section 9(1) and to report on those measures in each annual report under section 40. Section 9(1) already confers on the office a comprehensive range of functions directed at precisely these objectives while section 9(4) provides that, \"The Office shall have all such powers as are necessary or expedient for the performance of its functions\", which already encompass the taking of measures that the proposed section 9(6) would require. Imposing a separate, open-ended obligation to take such measures as is considered necessary to advance those same objectives offers nothing of substance while potentially creating interpretive ambiguity as to the scope of the office's existing powers and duties. As regards the reporting obligation proposed in section 9(7), section 40 already requires the office to prepare an annual report on the performance of its functions, which inherently encompasses reporting on the measures taken in respect of the section 9(1) objectives. A specific and additional reporting requirement is therefore redundant.  I am conscious that the office must be afforded appropriate flexibility and independence in determining how best to advance its statutory objectives, a point expressly recognised in section 9(5). The prescribing of further layers of mandatory consultation and reporting obligations of the kind proposed risks imposing an administrative burden disproportionate to any tangible benefit. Accordingly, I oppose the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  I thank the Minister of State. I ask her to clarify, hopefully before the clock runs out, what is contemplated by an order as distinct from a direction under sections 10 and 11. Does the concept of an order or the concept of a direction, and that level of flexibility afforded to the Minister in this Bill, derive from specific sections of the EU regulation that we are implementing or is this a domestic measure that we are adding? Is it the Minister of State\u2019s intention that an order or a direction would never be taken unless it was an action adopted at an EU-wide level? Does she contemplate orders or directions being issued that relate to domestic policy measures or would this happen only when it is done in concert at an EU level? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I agree with Deputy Geoghegan on that question. I appreciate the point the Minister of State made in response to my amendment but it is important to clarify what the role will be of the AI office when something falls between the designated competent authorities.  I am conscious that the clock is running down, and my next point speaks to the fact that we did not get to talk to a lot of the other amendments, but I did get to raise, once again, that the Civil Service seems to have chosen to discriminate against county councillors being employed by this body. That is very unfair. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I just had a quick search through the legislation. It has the word \"ethics\" in it five times and the word \"responsible\" twice. That is in different contexts but the point is whether \"ethical and responsible\" is such a novel phrase. I do not think so. The response from the Minister of State, which was essentially \"Computer says 'No'\", does not stand up regarding the idea of including \"ethical and responsible\" when, as she can hear, there is plenty of support for such a phrase. It would introduce the balance we are seeking. That is a shame.  I support Deputy Lawlor's amendment because the climate concerns relating to AI are very, very deep, and the text of this existing legislation does not account for it appropriately.  I am very clear that I want to see AI developed in society and I want to see the benefits it can bring to society. The only way that will happen is if we have public trust in the technology and the only way we will get public trust in this technology is with the appropriate regulatory framework. This Bill does not deliver it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Niamh Smyth  In response to Deputy Geoghegan, an order is specifically related to adding to the functions while directions are related to policy. We know that national and EU policies are generally aligned. I hope that answers his question. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The time permitted for this debate having expired, I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the D\u00e1il of this day: \"That in respect of each of the sections undisposed of, the section is hereby agreed to in Committee, Schedules 1 to 4 and the Title are hereby agreed to in Committee, the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without amendment, Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.\" "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026: Committee and Remaining Stages"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-30\/debate\/dbsect_50","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services: Motion [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":43,"speakerCount":34},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_50","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Denise Mitchell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aisling Dempsey","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:  acknowledges:  \u2014 the importance of affordable and accessible childcare for children and parents, neither of which are being achieved for many families across the State; and  \u2014 that there is no early years or childcare sector without the Early Years Educators and School-Age Childcare practitioners who work in it;  notes that:  \u2014 childcare costs remain far too high and are in excess of \u20ac800 per month in many parts of the State;  \u2014 access to childcare is now a major labour market issue affecting our economy;  \u2014 the need to ensure regulations for childminders are fair, and are aimed at growing the number of childminders, not reducing them, while acknowledging that less than 200 of an estimated 16,000 childminders have registered with Tusla;  \u2014 there are between 40,000 and 50,000 children on waiting lists for childcare places, many which do not exist due to severe shortages of childcare places, especially for babies under one year;  \u2014 there is no published plan, despite being promised, on how to deliver a \u20ac200 per month childcare service to parents;  \u2014 continued issues are being experienced by childcare providers with the Core Funding support; and  \u2014 the current mechanism for pay increases, via an Employment Regulation Order, is not working for professionals in the sector;  further notes the welcome introduction of State-led childcare facilities; and  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 immediately publish a roadmap to deliver \u20ac200 a month childcare, with a clear timeframe for the implementation;  \u2014 extend the Building Blocks Extension Grant Scheme, to allow for the purchase of existing buildings, not just new, to increase childcare capacity quickly;  \u2014 increase pay for Early Years Educators and School-Age Childcare Practitioners from September 2026, and begin work on examining the State taking over wages and associated costs in the sector, as a first step to a public model;  \u2014 extend Parent's Leave and Benefit, to ensure a baby can spend their first year with at least one parent;  \u2014 ensure the widest possible consultation with childminders on the Child Care Act 1991 (Early Years Services) (Childminding Services) Regulations 2024; and  \u2014 initiate an immediate and full review of the Core Funding supports, as committed to in the Programme for Government.  I am glad to have the opportunity to bring forward this motion on childcare and the early years sector. There are a number of significant issues in the sector that have been ongoing for some time, not least of which is affordability, but equal and almost more important is accessibility. Cost is totally irrelevant to parents who cannot find a place that will take their child. There are also ongoing issues with the workforce, in particular the educators, who year-on-year - this year, last year and the year before - are at the whim of a joint labour committee, JLC, which might give them 65 cent, \u20ac1 or \u20ac1.35. Once again this year, no increase will be in place in time for September. That is no way at all to treat these professionals. I met some who said to me that they find it difficult to do a four-year degree and come out to earn an amount of money per hour that they could earn in the local supermarket. That is no level of respect for these professionals, without whom we would have no childcare sector and would not have to worry about places or cost.  There is an ongoing issue with childminders. I note the Minister's amendment references having extensively consulted childminders on the regulations. I have no doubt those efforts were made, but the situation is serious for childminders and my question is, if they were extensively engaged with, why do we have a situation where well under 200 of them have signed up to the regulations and registered with Tusla to date, with the deadline of September 2027 looming? Approximately 160 of the 13,000 to 15,000 childminders in the State have signed up. There is clearly an issue. No matter how hard the consultation was in terms of its significance, it clearly has not worked. There is a major issue and there is a huge job of work to be done.  I bring forward the six requests in this motion in good faith and because I want to see a better childcare service. There are measures that have come along under the State-led model, which I welcomed, but I would like it to be expanded in the building blocks expansion grant scheme. I have raised this issue with the Minister many times. If we can develop State-led, not-for-profit childcare now under the new State-led model, why can we not expand the building blocks scheme to buy existing buildings instead of focusing solely on new builds and new purchases? That would be a way to build capacity and do so quickly.  I met a community childcare provider recently that has expanded its places and will be able to provide an additional 40 places in its childcare setting. There are 140 children on its waiting list. The provider knows that, as parents see the extension being built, they will hope and expect to get a place for their child, while capacity will not come close to demand.  Affordability continues to be an issue. The cost reduction in the maximum fees payable announced recently puts the cost today closer to \u20ac200 per week than \u20ac200 per month. It is incredible that we still have no roadmap for how we will get to \u20ac200 per month. That should be in place. The plan should be published. It was all the talk of the last general election.  The Minister's amendment also speaks about parent's leave and benefit, maternity leave and the leave available specifically to two-parent families. There is an ongoing anomaly, which I have raised many times, for one-parent families. It would cost a small amount of money. It is wrong that babies who grow up in a one-parent family have less time with their parent than children who grow up in a two-parent family. That should be corrected and it needs to be done. We want to see the extension of parent's leave and benefit to bring parents - in both one-parent and two-parent families - to being able to spend the first year with their children. That is important and we need to make far greater headway on it.  Lastly on the motion's requests, the Government needs to do its homework on the State taking on the wages. We have a crisis in recruitment and retention. In some counties, the turnover is up to 50% and it is actually 50% in some. We have to give respect and recognition to early years educators. Giving them 65 cent or \u20ac1.35 here and there and waiting to see what the Labour Court decides is no way to treat professionals in the sector. If we do not make a move as bold as I believe we should by taking on the wages, we will not have the sector, including the workforce. We will not retain them to ensure children see the same face every day, which is a positive benefit for children's development, but would also ensure we have a strong and resilient childcare sector into the future. That is not there right now as I bring this motion forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  Our motion recognises a simple truth. Affordable childcare is not a luxury. It is an essential public service, a service families must be able to access. Crucially, childcare providers and early years educators must also be properly supported. In Galway, the reality is very different from the picture painted by the Government. Parents contact me all the time because they cannot secure a childcare place. Many are forced onto lengthy waiting lists even before their children are born. Others are travelling significant distances because there simply is not the capacity in their local communities. That places a huge amount of pressure on parents who are trying to work and keep their families going while they are already struggling with the cost-of-living crisis.  Childcare fees are going up despite the Government giving us assurances that it had a plan, not only to stop this happening, but to reduce prices to \u20ac200 per month. That election promise was completely and utterly ignored. As childcare costs spiral out of control, families rightly ask what happened to these promises.  The truth is that providers are also under huge financial pressure. They are battling rising costs, recruitment difficulties and uncertainty about future funding. In recent years, we have had a situation where some providers have reached a point where they simply cannot continue. Every provider that closes means there are fewer places, longer waiting lists and greater pressure on those that remain. There is a knock-on effect on everyone, but I hear particularly from mothers. Many mothers have reached out to me to tell me they simply cannot get back to work. Women are finding it impossible to get access to childcare places within the first year of their child's life, while clearly the maternity entitlement in the State does not match that reality. Many babies just do not have a childcare space.  Many women say the child is on a waiting list without any other option afforded to them while they are looking to get back into work. These women tell me they need immediate action to get the support they need. This can only be achieved by making childcare affordable so it is within the reach of families, but also by creating the spaces necessary to accommodate all the children in a locality. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy David Cullinane  I support the motion and commend an Teachta Kerrane for bringing forward all the solutions, which I hope the Minister takes on board. I want to get to a point where we have the \u20ac200 per month childcare promised not just by a lot of parties before the last election but also by Government representatives. That simply has not been delivered. Even if we get to that point though it is not going to be of value to many parents because they cannot get access to childcare in the first place.  I attended a public meeting in Tramore, County Waterford a number of weeks ago. All the Oireachtas Members and local councillors were invited and it is a really good example, and one I ask the Minister to look at, of a town with a growing population that has not seen the investment in childcare facilities it needs. Parent after parent was talking about the impossibility of finding appropriate early education or childcare. It was a real barrier for some parents, especially women, getting back to work or finding full-time employment. There are new housing developments where the buildings allocated for childcare are empty and childcare providers say there is a real battle to provide services there because the subsidies do not exist or are not good enough. There is bureaucracy and lots of reasons and it is just not cost-effective - that is one of the issues. If we have new housing developments where there is a promise of childcare facilities as part of them but they are not being provided it is a failure of Government and Government policy. What the parents asked me to convey to the Minister is they want her to do a pilot project in Tramore of a State-led childcare facility and look at capital investment. The crucial issue providers and parents also raised with me is staffing. There is huge staff turnover. We cannot get the staff. There are obviously issues with pay. We have been asking the Government to deal with those for a long number of years. It is a major impediment to providing childcare places. Tramore is only one example of many towns, cities and rural areas where childcare is unfortunately non-existent or simply does not have the capacity it should. I am hoping the Minister will listen to what we are saying and take on board the solutions that are in our motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  T\u00e1 c\u00faram leana\u00ed r\u00f3-chostasach agus n\u00edl d\u00f3thain \u00e1iteanna ann. For far too many families childcare is no longer just a challenge but a barrier to having children, returning to work or simply making ends meet. I am aware of couples who have delayed starting a family because of the pressures bought about by the combined costs of childcare and housing. That is not their failure but a failure of Government. This is one of the wealthiest states in Europe. There is no excuse for parents still paying over \u20ac800 a month per child for childcare while also facing soaring housing, energy and commuting costs. In my constituency, over half of childcare services in Cavan have waiting lists while in Monaghan almost two thirds have. That tells its own story. Families are paying too much yet still cannot get a place.  Before the last general election Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael promised parents they would deliver childcare bills of \u20ac200 per month maximum. That promise has disappeared without any plan to deliver it. On the other hand, Sinn F\u00e9in has a credible roadmap to reduce childcare costs, expand capacity, improve pay and conditions so providers can recruit and retain staff, reform the funding model and properly support childcare. Deputy Kerrane has set out how these policies can be implemented and we need to take that advice. We need to give parents a real choice. Some want to return to work quickly and others want more time at home with their babies. Extending paid parental leave would recognise caring for our youngest children is valuable work that deserves the support of the State. Families in Cavan, Monaghan and right across Ireland deserve action on childcare, not more broken promises. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I thank an Teachta Kerrane not just for this motion but for all the work she has done because while the Government completely lacks a roadmap, an Teachta Kerrane has showed it how it can be done in terms of delivering for parents and children.  Access to affordable childcare allowed me to finish college, to work part-time and then to move on to full-time employment. Affordable childcare was a game-changer for my family. The best way to deliver affordable childcare, and the Minister knows this, is by delivering it on a not-for-profit basis yet in my constituency of Dublin Fingal West we see the Government attitude to community childcare laid bare. I represent the youngest constituency in this State. There is a huge need for affordable childcare. Parents are being made to pay huge fees. That is when they can even get a place, because a lot of the children in my constituency are on waiting lists. Parents heard the Government\u2019s promise of \u20ac200 per month yet they pay \u20ac800 and sometimes more. According to Fingal County Council the review of childcare that was due to take place in 2022 was abandoned. Now it is starting again, at the request of the Minister, to do another review. The Government does not need a review to tell it what is wrong. The statistics are there. All the while those statistics tell us a tale about the Government\u2019s attitude to parents, children and early years educators in my area. There are 63,000 kids living in Fingal and 15,000 of them live in disadvantage. There are 800 community or not-for-profit places. For every 100 children in Fingal there are 24 childcare places. Our community centres are full of for-profit childcare providers. There is no space and no interest from this Government in community childcare and the parents, the kids and the early-year educators in my constituency of Dublin Fingal West deserve so much better. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  Families who rely on childcare and those who work in the sector are being profoundly let down. I will speak about the families who rely on it first. For many that is \u20ac800 or \u20ac900 a month if they are relying on it full time. There are also many parents who rely on it for two or three children and for them the costs are crippling. This is true at all stages and we need to get to a place where we have wraparound childcare. This is quite a stressful time for parents because schools have finished. Parents up and down the country are trying to work a patchwork quilt of a few hours with a parent here, a summer camp there and a few hours with a childminder.  It all speaks to our never having got to grips with a public childcare model in this State and that has to be the direction. We need to treat this as a public good and it needs to be publicly provided. That is the direction we need to go in. While I recognise that in the moment we are in subsidies to the sector are necessary it seems the Government\u2019s strategy, just as with housing, is to rely on that. It is to constantly build it more into the system and add subsidy after subsidy while ultimately not building the public service we need. People who have to pay childcare fees while renting find there is nearly nothing left. That could be \u20ac2,500 just for those two costs alone. The other thing this place needs to get to grips with is it is not just the parents' problem but a problem for all of us. It is a problem for the whole of our society. It is a strategic problem. There are people who are prevented from being able to go out and get a job, keep a full-time job or stay in the workforce because they cannot get childcare. It is a problem for us all because there are people out there who are making the decision to put off having a second, third or perhaps even a first child because they cannot afford it. It is dictating where people live and many other things like that. We have to get to grips with the fact it is a problem for all of us we have to solve for the good of us all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Kenny  I commend Deputy Kerrane on bringing forward this motion. I remember five or six years ago Kathleen Funchion, the former TD for Carlow-Kilkenny, began a process of speaking to childcare providers and families around the country about this issue. It was an issue for everyone in every constituency in the country. We were meeting families who could not get childcare and when they could it was extremely expensive. Those working as early-years educators were in the very same position. They could not afford to continue to work in the sector after going to college and qualifying. They loved working with children yet they could not afford to continue to do that. We recognised something needed to be done and Deputy Kerrane continued to develop that policy until we clearly set out a goal that we wanted to see a wraparound childcare service that would be available for everybody, be affordable and that the State would stand over.  Then, before the most recent election, the Government party came along and said, \"This is a good idea\", so what did it do? Instead of actually adopting the policy we had, it adopted the announcement and said it was going to provide this. However, there was no plan to do it whatsoever and now we are in the situation where we continue to hear the Government talk about it but actually not deliver it. That is really the problem we have here. We have a situation where many people around the country have been waiting since the Government came into power for this \u20ac200 per month for childcare. There is absolutely no sign of it whatsoever. I speak to people in my constituency who are still paying through the nose for a service they can ill afford at the same time as every other cost has gone through the roof, and we still have the situation where the people who work as early years educators cannot get an adequate salary to ensure that they can continue to work in the profession. The Minister needs to recognise that what we are bringing forward tonight is a solution to a problem not just for the people who work in the sector but for thousands of people around the country who are being pushed out of a situation where they cannot go to work because they cannot afford childcare. It really needs to be examined and sorted out. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  What we need is a fit-for-purpose public system. I commend Deputy Kerrane on her work. Unfortunately, we had promises around affordability from the Government and at this point, we have neither affordability nor accessibility. It does not work for childminders. It does not work for childcare providers. It certainly does not work for those who work within it or the parents who are contacting all of us. A constituent wrote to me. She stated:  I am writing to ask for your assistance regarding an urgent childcare issue that is placing my employment at risk.  I am a Clinical Nurse Specialist in Mental Health ... in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda. I am passionate about my work and have worked hard to achieve my current position. My partner is an electrician ... and we have both invested years of training and dedication into our careers.  For the past year, I have been continuously contacting cr\u00e8ches throughout County Louth in an effort to secure childcare for our child. Despite my efforts, I have repeatedly been told that waiting lists are extremely long and that no places are available.  The only childcare place that I have been able to secure is in County Armagh. As a result, I am paying over \u20ac270 per week for just three days of childcare. ... The arrangement also requires a significant additional daily commute as I live in [north Louth] and work in Drogheda, meaning I am travelling in the opposite direction before then commuting back to work.  Unfortunately, the situation is becoming financially and practically unsustainable. I am now faced with the possibility of having to resign my job that I love simply because I cannot access affordable childcare closer to home.  Given the ongoing challenges facing mental health services and emergency care, I am deeply concerned that a lack of childcare provision could force experienced healthcare professionals out of the workforce. I am eager to continue serving patients in County Louth and contributing to mental health services, but I need support in finding a viable childcare solution.  I have spoken to the Louth childcare committee and I think it is straightforward. I am sure the Minister may be aware there are currently no childcare places allowed for children full-time or part-time, especially within the age range from zero to three years. That says it all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Children, Disability and Equality (Deputy Norma Foley)  I move amendment No 1:  To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:  \"welcomes the significant prioritisation by the Government of measures designed to:  \u2014 reduce out-of-pocket costs of early learning and childcare for families;  \u2014 better align the supply of State-subsidised early learning and childcare with demand; and  \u2014 increase the pay and improve the working conditions of Early Years Educators and School-Age Childcare practitioners, as well as develop career pathways and promote careers in the sector, in line with Nurturing Skills, the Workforce Plan for Early Learning and Care and School-Age Childcare 2022-2028;  acknowledges the unprecedented growth in State funding in the sector, which has increased from \u20ac707 million in 2022, to \u20ac1.52 billion this year, an increase of circa 116 per cent;  further welcomes:  \u2014 the publication of Shaping the Future: Early Years Action Plan Phase 1 Report, in December 2025;  \u2014 the extensive consultation process that has been designed to inform Phase 2 of Shaping the Future, including an online survey which has received more than 11,000 responses, 56 local consultation events, an art based engagement exercise with children and a national consultation event will also take place later in the year; and  \u2014 the commitment to publish Phase 2 of Shaping the Future by the end of 2026, which will deliver a pathway to achieving the Programme for Government commitment to 'Progressively reduce the cost of childcare to \u20ac200 per month per child';  acknowledges and welcomes the major achievements of, and new enhancements to, the Together for Better funding model this year, in line with Phase 1 of Shaping the Future, in particular:  \u2014 the continued implementation of the National Childcare Scheme (NCS), with approximately 277,000 children set to benefit from subsidies in 2026, including 47,000 children in lower income families who will benefit from increases in the income thresholds of the income-assessed subsidies, and from increases to the multiple child deduction component of the income-assessed subsidy for families with two or more children under the age of 15;  \u2014 the continuation of the Early Childhood Care and Education (ECCE) programme, that is benefitting more than 105,000 children in 2026, as the ECCE enjoys uptake rates in excess of 96 per cent and has removed barriers to accessing pre-school education, with data from a recent review showing that more than 40 per cent of families would not have been able to send their child to pre-school without this programme;  \u2014 the award-winning Access and Inclusion Model (AIM), which is supporting up to 9,000 children with a disability to access the ECCE programme in 2026, and which has now expanded beyond the ECCE programme, where ECCE children are benefitting from AIM support outside the ECCE programme hours, both in term and out of term, and AIM capitation increasing by 10 per cent to bring rates into line with new rates of pay for Early Years Educators under the updated Employment Regulation Orders (EROs), last October;  \u2014 the Equal Start funding model, and set of universal and targeted measures to support access to, and participation in, early learning and childcare for children and their families who experience disadvantage, with the number of settings being designated as priority settings, in receipt of targeted supports, reaching 824 in May 2026; and  \u2014 the Core Funding scheme, with the allocation of \u20ac393 million in year four of the scheme, September 2025-August 2026, set to rise by at least 23 per cent, or \u20ac90 million, in year five September 2026-August 2027, to \u20ac483 million, to support a range of important priorities, including:  \u2014 accessibility for families, through funding for growth in the sector at 4.2 per cent;  \u2014 affordability to support services to sustainably maintain fee management conditions, including new maximum fee caps benefiting parents facing the highest fees across the country, under the new maximum fee caps, the highest possible upfront cost for a typical full day place of 45 hours per week will drop from around \u20ac198 per week to \u20ac183.70 per week, with universal subsidies under the NCS, higher subsidies are available for many parents, depending on their level of income and the age and number of children in their family; and  \u2014 quality through support, with the costs of the new EROs that commenced on 13th October, 2025, through which approximately 67 per cent of staff working in the sector saw an increase in pay, and through additional ringfenced funding of up to \u20ac45 million, in year five of the scheme, which is contingent on updated EROs by the independent Joint Labour Committee, with these negotiations underway;  further acknowledges that:  \u2014 since Core Funding was introduced, its effectiveness has been subject to ongoing review, and the scheme itself has evolved year-on-year, with changes, including targeted measures and a fee increase assessment process informed by data from previous years, feedback from stakeholders, as well as an independent financial review of sessional services by Frontier Economics; and  \u2014 a review of the first year of Core Funding and the development of an evaluation framework for Core Funding is currently underway, and this review, which is being undertaken by the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service policy analysts, will be completed in the coming months;  further again, acknowledges and welcomes that:  \u2014 childminders were extensively consulted with and involved in all aspects of the development of the Child Care Act 1991 (Early Years Services) (Childminding Services) Regulations 2024, which were designed to be proportionate and appropriate to the home and family setting in which an estimated 13,000 childminders work;  \u2014 an independent external review of the draft Childminding Regulations by Dr Bill Maxwell, the former Chief Executive Officer of Education Scotland, former Chief Inspector in both Scotland and Wales, and Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development consultant, confirmed that the approach was proportionate for childminding in Ireland; and  \u2014 the independent review of the initial implementation of the Childminding Regulations launched on 19th June, with an open call for submissions, the review will include consultation with childminders and other stakeholders and will provide an important opportunity to learn lessons from initial experiences with the regulations, a consultation survey will follow the call for submissions, in addition to focus groups, stakeholder interviews, and case studies, the scope of the review is broader than initially outlined in the National Action Plan for Childminding 2021-2028, and will now also examine the effectiveness of supports made available to assist with the registration of childminders, as well as examining the barriers to registration and regulatory compliance, including financial and information barriers;  also welcomes the transformed Forward Planning and Delivery Unit, with ground-breaking work underway in that unit to develop a forward planning model, and introduce State-led services to provide high-quality, accessible early learning and childcare, to operate alongside private and community providers where there are shortfalls in capacity, supported by \u20ac135 million in capital funding over the period 2026-2030;  in addition, acknowledges and welcomes the latest data from a range of sources that shows capacity in the early learning and childcare sector is increasing in terms of the number of places and hours of provision that services are offering, the number of places opening, and the number of staff in the early learning and childcare workforce, with:  \u2014 a net increase in registered, centre-based services in 2025 of 255, compared with net increases of 30 in 2022, 129 in 2023, 226 in 2024;  \u2014 a year-on-year decline in the number of closures, with 138 closures in 2025, compared with 183 in 2022, 167 in 2023, 131 in 2024;  \u2014 a net increase of 40 in registered, centre-based services this year to date, January-April 2026;  \u2014 a 25 per cent increase in child enrolments between 2022 and 2025, from 197,186 to 247,011 children, against a backdrop of a 12 per cent decline in the under-five population; and  \u2014 a 23 per cent increase in staff working in the sector between 2022 and 2025, from 34,359 to 42,130 staff;  furthermore, welcomes:  \u2014 the major progress made on family leaves in recent years under the First 5: A Whole-of-Government Strategy for Babies, Young Children and their Families 2019-2028;  \u2014 the combined durations of Maternity, Paternity and Parent's Leave and Benefit now equate to 46 weeks' paid leave for a two-parent family, supplemented by an entitlement to 16 weeks of unpaid Maternity Leave, and 26 weeks of unpaid parental leave per parent; and  \u2014 the Programme for Government commits to examining the extension of Parent's Leave and Benefit and additional flexibilities; and  also acknowledges that:  \u2014 there continues to be evidence of some families having difficulty finding appropriate places at a cost that is affordable, and that despite progress in recent years, owing to intervention by the State, the workforce in the sector remains a low-paid one; and  \u2014 while noting that further developments and investment are required, recognises that there are many positive and progressive elements to the current early learning and childcare sector, and acknowledges the pathway for improving access, affordability and quality is set out in the new Programme for Government.\".  I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion and to contribute to what is an essential and timely debate on early learning and childcare. I would like to acknowledge the importance of this issue not just as a policy matter, but as one that directly affects children and families, educators and practitioners, providers and our wider society and economy.  For the information of the House, I have tabled an amendment to this motion. I do so not to dismiss the concerns sincerely raised but to ensure that this House has a full, balanced and evidence-based understanding of where early learning and childcare stands today and the direction in which we are moving.  While we have seen real and measurable progress in recent years with significant increases in State investment, reductions in out-of-pocket costs for parents, growth in capacity across the sector and improvements in workforce pay, the Government fully acknowledges the challenges that remain in early learning and childcare, particularly in terms of costs and availability of places for many families. However, I emphasise at the outset that this debate should not be framed solely in terms of affordability and accessibility. Quality must also stand as a central and interconnected pillar of early learning and childcare policy. That is why this Government's approach is not just to reduce costs or expand but to build a system that delivers high-quality experiences for every child, supported by a skilled and valued workforce. There are real issues and they are not being dismissed by the Government. They are recognised and they are being addressed: in a structured, multi-annual and evidence-based reform programme through Shaping the Future, the early years action plan.  As Members are aware, phase 1 of this plan was published in December 2025. It sets out concrete actions already being delivered in 2026 across affordability, access and quality. Phase 2, to be published by the end of 2026, will build on this with further medium-term reforms. It will set out a clear pathway to achieving the programme for Government commitment of reducing parental fees to \u20ac200 per month over the lifetime of this Government as is committed and reflected in the programme for Government. It will be grounded in evidence, stakeholder engagement and consultation. More than 11,000 submissions have been received through the consultation process, supported by 56 local consultation events right across the country. That is not the absence of a plan. This is a Government that is developing policy in partnership with children and families, educators and practitioners and providers to ensure it delivers real and sustained change. We must move forward, but we must do so in a way that is durable and supports the entire system.  On the issue of affordability, the motion asserts that costs remain too high and for many families, that is true. However, the motion fails to acknowledge the scale of progress already made. OECD data shows that between 2022 and 2025 o childcare costs for couples on the average wage fell from 23% to 12% of household income, while childcare costs for lone parents on the average wage fell from 23% to 13% of household income. Central Statistics Office, CSO, data show that since September 2022, the consumer price index for childcare has fallen by 37%. That is a remarkable and unprecedented reduction in a context of high inflation, which was achieved through the combined impact of consistent and sustained subsidy increases in the national childcare scheme and fee management measures under core funding. That is putting real money back into the pockets of families. We are not waiting for some future point to deliver affordability. we have already started the process of delivering it.  Budget 2026 builds on this progress by: increasing investment to over \u20ac1.5 billion, which he highest ever level of state support; expanding subsidies under the national childcare scheme to benefit hundreds of thousands of children; and introducing further fee caps to reduce the highest costs faced by parents. Under these new fee caps, the maximum cost of a full-time place is falling further, with additional support for families on low income available through increases in income-related subsidies under the national childcare scheme. However, I do know we have much more to do to make our programme for Government commitment of reducing parental fees to \u20ac200 per month over the lifetime of Government a reality.  Let me also address important issues on workforce. The motion raises concerns about pay and rightly highlights the importance of the workforce. The Government agrees; there is no early learning and childcare sector without educators and practitioners. That is why we are continuing to support the joint labour committee process, the formal and independent mechanism for setting pay levels. Although the State is not the employer, through budget 2026, up to \u20ac45 million in additional ring-fenced core funding has been provided to support further improvements, contingent on new employment regulation orders. This has been an effective approach. Negotiations by the independent joint labour committee are now under way to determine the pays of rate for what will be the fourth set employment regulation orders since 2022. Over the last three sets of employment regulation orders, wages in the sector have increased by 25%. The Government has supported employers in meeting the cost of these wage costs, notwithstanding the fact that employers are private operators and the State is not an employer in this sector.  At the same time, as articulated in phase 1 of Shaping the Future, we are examining through phase 2 of shaping the future where alternative mechanisms may better support long-term improvements in pay and conditions. This reflects a Government that is both acting now and planning ahead. The motion calls for a review of core funding. A review of the scheme is already under way. Since its introduction, we have ensured core funding has involved continuous monitoring, adjustment and refinement. A formal evaluation of its first year is currently being conducted alongside the development of a robust long-term evaluation framework. This ensures that the scheme remains effective, it evolves based on evidence and feedback and it delivers value for money.  The motion, relying on waiting list data, suggests that capacity is simply not there, despite the clear challenges with these data that I have articulated in this House time and time again. There is no centralised waiting list. Each waiting list is managed at service level and an individual child may well be on multiple waiting lists in different services. In fact, they may remain on one or multiple service lists after taking up a place.  Other data tell a different story. We are seeing strong and sustained growth in capacity across the sector, with a significant increase in registered services year on year, including a net increase of 61 more registered centre-based services between January and May 2026, a continued decline in closures, a 25% increase in child enrolments between 2022 and 2025 and a 23% increase in staff over the same period. This is clear evidence that capacity is growing.  Alongside this, the Government is investing significant capital funding to increase supply. The building blocks extension grant scheme is currently being operated by the Department and will deliver up to 1,500 places this year. A further building blocks extension scheme will operate in 2027.  The motion calls for Government to purchase existing buildings from existing providers. The Government has taken a clear position here. Our priority is increasing capacity. The Department is not offering funding to providers to purchase existing premises that would not increase existing capacity. Instead, the Department recently announced \u20ac135 million of capital investment over the coming five years for State-led services to provide additional high quality, accessible early learning and childcare. The process has commenced with investment in buildings in what will be a groundbreaking initiative.  Concerns have been raised about the childminding review. Let me assure the House that childminders have been consulted at every stage of the development and implementation of the national action plan for childminding and in the drafting of the childminding regulations. An independent expert reviewer confirmed that the approach is proportionate and appropriate to the home-based setting. Furthermore, a new review of the initial implementation of the childminding regulations has been launched, and involves: call for submissions, surveys, stakeholder engagement and detailed analysis of barriers to registration. This demonstrates our willingness to listen, to learn and to adapt policy where necessary.  The motion also calls for expanded family leave in the first year of a child's life. Through the Government's First 5 strategy, significant progress has been made. Parents now have access to up to 46 weeks of paid leave in a two-parent household, alongside unpaid leave entitlements. This reflects a strong commitment to supporting families in the earliest stages of a child's life. Further extensions will be considered, in line with programme for Government commitments.  What is being delivered by this Government is not a series of isolated measures, but a coherent reform programme, one that balances urgency with sustainability and ambition with delivery. The Government amendment put forward reflects that reality. It acknowledges the challenges but it also recognises the progress, the direction and the pathway that has been set out. That is the basis on which we should proceed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ann Graves  I acknowledge the work that an Teachta Kerrane has put in on this important motion.  Affordable childcare is a real challenge for families in my constituency, Dublin Fingal East, one of the largest and fastest growing areas. We are seeing large developments being built delivering thousands of much-needed homes but there is little effort being put into planning good quality affordable childcare facilities to meet the needs of families. Those childcare facilities that are being built are not fit for purpose. They are not viable and the costs are way too high.  Purpose-built childcare facilities are lying empty in Portmarnock and Swords. They are too small and cannot accommodate enough children to make them financially viable. In Donabate, a developer looked for a change of use to allow a cr\u00e8che to be turned into two residential units because there was no uptake. Meanwhile Fingal has the lowest proportion of community-based childcare in the State. The Dublin region average is 33%. The State average is approximately 23%. In Fingal, only 5% or 16 providers operate on a not-for-profit basis. The vast majority of these are in Dublin West.  This is creating a real crisis in Dublin Fingal East, where families, children and childcare providers need to see a radical shift in Government policy. I am contacted every day by parents who are anxious. If they are lucky enough to get a place in a childcare facility, they simply cannot afford it. In some cases, it is akin to a second mortgage.  The introduction of the new maximum caps does not go far enough and many people cannot avail of them. Childcare fees create barriers to using formal childcare facilities, female labour market participation and tackling childcare poverty rates.  Sinn F\u00e9in is determined to deliver childcare for \u20ac10 a day. We are committed to an early years model of childcare that is affordable, high quality, accessible and inclusive. There are immediate actions that the Government can take by providing a roadmap to deliver \u20ac200 a month childcare with a clear implementation timeline and by extending the building blocks extension grant scheme to include existing buildings. Something has to give because families cannot afford childcare. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  Childcare is no longer simply a family issue. It is one of the biggest social and economic challenges facing this State.  We heard earlier that parents are paying more than \u20ac800 a month in many parts of the country but in Dublin they would be lucky to get change from \u20ac1,000 a month. Even then, there are thousands who still cannot secure a childcare place. That is the impossible situation for many families who are trying to work, study and provide the best start in life for their children.  I constantly hear from people I am talking to that they cannot afford to have a child, particularly those who have a mortgage. They are putting off having a child until later in life. The figures even suggest that is the pattern. People just cannot afford it and it is an impossible situation for many families.  Families have heard promise after promise from the Government. They were promised childcare provision at \u20ac200 a month but there is still no roadmap. There is certainly no timeframe to get even close to that place. The core funding, we heard earlier on, must be reviewed so that providers are supported rather than buried in paperwork and bureaucracy. Every week, I get emails from parents where a childcare provider has pulled out of core funding and the costs of that family have skyrocketed.  The Government has made a mess of core funding to the point where it is not viable. Simply saying that childcare must be made cheaper is not enough. There must be investment in capacity, fair play and, above all, long-term planning. The Government hates to consider any project that will last longer than an election cycle because, God forbid, it will not get the credit.  Sinn F\u00e9in's motion sets out practical, achievable measures that will make a real difference for children, parents and childcare professionals. It is time to move beyond announcements and deliver meaningful action. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Denise Mitchell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Denise-Mitchell.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Denise Mitchell  One of the best ways we can address the cost-of-living crisis for families with young children is to bring down the cost of childcare and make it more accessible. In my own constituency of Dublin Bay North, we have a lot of new housing estates with young families and the waiting list for childcare places is simply huge. The fact is it is stopping many people from returning to work. The cost for those who manage to secure a place are still way too high. While I welcome the progress that has been made in this area, the reality is that parents are still paying the equivalent of a second mortgage every month.  When it comes to capacity, if it does not have the staff, the Government cannot deliver the places in the system. Therefore, we need to ask why is staff turnover so high and why is recruitment so difficult. It is very clear. SIPTU's report found that 86% of early years educators identified low pay as their biggest issue and two thirds also raised the problem of extra pressure due to staff shortages and stress.  Everybody in this House will agree that the people we entrust to educate and care for our children should feel valued and that starts with fair pay. If we really want to deliver a public childcare system, we need to grasp the nettle here and begin examining where the State could take responsibility for wages and associated costs in the sector. Investing in our young people and their education from an early age benefits society as a whole. We can get this right but affordability, accessibility and workforce issues need to be addressed to make sure we do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Johnny Mythen  Childcare is a cornerstone of society. It promotes and nourishes child well-being, gender equality and a sustainable work-family balance. Not many institutions or organisations can claim that. They are the backbone of our economy. If they do not operate tomorrow morning, the economy would collapse and half the workforce would not be able to go to work, yet childcare services are coming under enormous financial and structural pressure.  In most parts of the country, childcare costs are in excess of \u20ac800 per month, and in major cities, costs are reaching well over \u20ac1,200. Parents and guardians are at their tether, effectively paying a second mortgage for childcare services. Early childcare educators are poorly paid, with staff with bachelor's degrees at levels 7 and 8 not receiving proper pay in recognition of their qualifications. Providers themselves are under severe pressure, with many folding and others barely hanging on. That is why core funding supports must be reviewed to reflect what is happening on the ground.  There are up to 50,000 children on childcare waiting lists, and staff shortages are having an enormous effect on room closures and administration systems, such as rotas and holidays being disrupted, mainly due to low pay. Rural childcare services also play a vital part in rural communities. Those involved personally know the children and their families, and some have been operating for over 20 years, but many are pulling out of the core funding. In fact, childcare providers in the D\u00e1il last week stated that in September, 996 services would be closing and that, by the end of the year, that will reach 1,500. That is a lot of families with nowhere to go.  Childcare at \u20ac200 per month must be introduced and core funding needs a full overhaul. If proper funding for childcare services is not put in place now, society and the economy will suffer. Childcare must come first, public good must come first and I ask all TDs to support this motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  Families in Louth have heard multiple announcements from local government representatives, but no meaningful action to deliver the Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael election promises of \u20ac200 per month childcare in the first 100 days of Government has come. Childcare is not a luxury and it needs to be given priority in investment.  We have more than 29,000 families with children in Louth, and almost 7,000 of those families have a child under the age of four. In sharp contrast, we only have 113 childcare providers, with 46% of these estimated to have a waiting list. We have parents waiting for places that just do not exist. The Government claims that improving access to quality and affordable early learning and school-age childcare is a key priority for Government, but the reality for parents I meet is very different. Natalie told me she does not want to have to choose between her being a mother and working, and she is already significantly disadvantaged in the workplace with regard to income and advancement opportunities. Lisa told me she has no option other than to stay working full-time just to make ends meet, but childcare places locally are a huge barrier to that continuing. Another couple at their wit's end told me they are both teachers who depend entirely on stable, affordable and reliable childcare, and that it is shocking to see dedicated professionals like them being pushed to the breaking point by Government policy failure.  In January, the Minister announced a proposal to purchase buildings that will provide childcare facilities. When I asked what was proposed in these plans for County Louth and what additional supply was proposed for areas of disadvantage in the Drogheda and south Louth areas, the response I received stated that no final decisions had been made on specific projects, but that the Minister looked forward to sharing details of projects as they were agreed. It has been six months and there have been no details or additional places.  Stock responses and soundbites do not help parents sitting and waiting on this. They are an absolute insult to the dedicated professionals who are working and struggling to keep the lights on and doors open. I call on the Minister to get real when it comes to the burden this is having on families. We need to support parents and invest in childcare, both in its provision and in the educators who deliver this service to our communities. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  Affordable and accessible childcare is a vital provision that has fundamental impacts on both our society and economy. A well-functioning early childhood education and care system is key to the future of our children as well as our own success. A public model of early childhood education and care is the only way we can achieve a system that is affordable, accessible and which addresses the childcare needs of families across this country.  While we work towards that model, we must cap childcare fees at \u20ac200 per child per month. This fee cap is something we have heard a lot about this evening, and indeed in the 2024 election, but it is very important we keep reiterating this. It was promised to every parent in the country in the lead-up to this past election, and it was promised to them in the programme for Government. Yet, here we are, still without a clear roadmap or timeframe for when this will happen.  I often talk about how lucky I was and we were to be able to secure a childcare place for my daughter, Ren. It is lucky that I and my partner, Chloe, are able to work and continue our careers. We are lucky to have childcare costs that amount to a second mortgage. This is not the language we should be using or should have to use when it comes to childcare. Being lucky or blessed should not come into it, and it should have no bearing on your access to childcare; it should be a right. The average cost of childcare in this country is \u20ac850 per month. However, for many families, it is so much more than that, including my own. In my constituency, one parent got in touch with me to tell me they pay \u20ac1,800 per month for one child for childcare. That is absolutely shocking. How is that sustainable?  While the cost of childcare is impacting families across the country, lower income families are always the worst affected. Earlier this month, the Government announced a reduction in the weekly fee cap for childcare services under the core funding model. This reduction was less than \u20ac15 per week, a drop from \u20ac198 to \u20ac183.70. This is far from the \u20ac200 per child per month price cap that was promised. It is a bit scary. Price hike after price hike continue to affect families across the country. No parent wants to say they will not pay whatever they can for their child. As a parent, you want to give everything you possibly can for your children. No parent wants their child to go without, but we should not be putting them in that situation. We should not be making parents choose between their careers and their children.  This is not a reflection of the early years educators and school-age childcare practitioners who work tirelessly to provide a fantastic service for our children right across the country; it is a reflection of a broken system. We know this crisis disproportionately affects women, with mothers forced to put their careers on pause or give them up altogether. The national strategy for women and girls published last year put a strong emphasis on how unpaid care creates structural barriers that prevent women's participation in the workforce. A core part of these barriers is the lack of affordable, high-quality, early years and school-age care, as well as uneven pay for parental leave. These are factors that shape women's decisions on returning to work, access to full-time roles and long-term financial security. If our Government is serious about addressing the gender pay gap and improving gender equality as a whole within our society, it needs to start here. We need our Government to recognise that affordable, accessible childcare is fundamentally an equality issue.  Our European counterparts recognise that access to childcare is an equality issue. For instance, in Germany, children over the age of one have a legal entitlement to a childcare place. Portugal's national system of early childhood intervention works on a multi-departmental level to ensure an adequate system of social, education and health supports for young children. Ireland's childcare costs are nearly double that of the OECD average. We are now an outlier in Europe in terms of how poor our access to early childhood education is and how unaffordable it is.  I welcome the Government's building block scheme and the announcement that it will purchase eight properties for the provision of public childcare. However, this does not go far enough. As a councillor, I asked for an audit to be done of Dublin City Council-owned properties to establish if any such properties may be suitable for future use as childcare facilities. This is something I believe we should be asking of all our councils and their council-owned property across the country. Property should be examined for its availability for community hubs, including childcare facilities, as having access to these facilities in the core of our community is of vital importance.  Core funding also continues to cause issues, and we have all spoken about that tonight. A Montessori in my own constituency in Phibsborough that has served the local community for decades is unsure if it will be able to open its doors next year. The sector is also facing serious challenges in recruitment and retention of staff. It is vital our plan for a public model of childcare includes proper pay and working conditions for staff in early childhood education facilities. Urgent action needs to be taken to address this. The challenges of recruitment and retention of staff in the industry is a major problem.  We need to see a public model of childcare. Childcare should be seen as essential infrastructure rather than a private burden that is placed on parents to deal with. Childcare has consistently been treated as an afterthought by this Government, with a complete lack of thought to the design and implementation of a well-functioning system. We want to see what was promised to us by this Government. We want to see a roadmap for a provision of \u20ac200 per month childcare. Families across this country are struggling and we need to support them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this motion. I am always happy to speak to childcare because, particularly as someone who raised my daughter alone, I know how important childcare is for gender equality and for families across this country who are just gasping for it at this stage.  The other issue that stands out from my own experience is that having paid for childcare in the early 2000s for my daughter, who was a millennial baby and is an adult woman now, I see that the crisis has not improved and has, in fact, only deepened. It is yet another crisis that has been stood over by successive Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Governments. Back then, I was paying the equivalent of a second mortgage for my daughter's childcare, although I could not afford a mortgage at the time.  Today, my area of Dublin Rathdown has the most expensive childcare in the country. Since becoming a TD, countless parents have contacted me at their wits' end trying to find and pay for childcare or worrying about losing their child's place. Childcare providers in Carrickmines, Dundrum and all across my constituency of Dublin Rathdown have pulled out of the Government funding scheme because they just could not make it work with the cost of rent and other overheads. That means parents across Dublin Rathdown are not even able to benefit from the rates under the childcare scheme, which are a far cry from the \u20ac200 cap promised in the general election and the programme for Government. Instead, many are paying more than \u20ac2,000 a month to keep their children in cr\u00e8che, which is, in effect, a second mortgage.  This crisis is pushing parents out of the workforce, adding stress to their lives and pushing down their incomes in what is already a cost-of-living crisis. Even when they can gather the money they need to pay the exorbitant costs, closures and a lack of spaces have meant many parents cannot secure a place for their child. They are caught between a rock and a hard place. Without a public system, this is what we get, namely, a service with not enough capacity and that is hugely expensive.  We in the Social Democrats have been clear about what needs to be done. A public model of childcare must be delivered as a matter of urgency. We must see fees come down and certainty for parents that if they secure a cr\u00e8che place, they can rely on it being there next year and that they will not be hit with skyrocketing costs. A public model ensures costs are brought down and can be set at a genuinely affordable rate. This is not a radical idea. It is something most European countries have. However, the work does not stop just with costs. We do not just need a more affordable system; we also must invest in capacity. If we rely solely on private operators, we will be unable to ensure we have the capacity planning to provide enough spaces in the system to meet the need in our communities. Childcare is a public good. It is necessary to our society and it provides vital early years education to our children. We need to treat it as such. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  I thank Deputy Kerrane and Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this really important motion. It is very close to my heart as someone with children going through the early years sector. I thank the early years educators who provide an excellent and caring service and who are absolutely not treated properly. I completely support SIPTU's campaign for proper pay and conditions. I thank the Minister for coming to my constituency of Dublin North-West to visit childcare and early years services and see at first hand the need for investment. I ask her to support the investment in early years provision in Ballymun that is urgently needed.  People have raised the particular issue with me of young people in this country who can and want to have children but are deciding it is not possible because they cannot afford it. Alongside a cost-of-living crisis, we now have a cost-of-having-babies crisis in this country. Young people want to have children but they just cannot afford it. The cost-of-living and cost-of-housing crises have become so bad, our younger generations cannot afford children, or if they have one child, they cannot afford a second. We are one of the richest countries in the world on paper. The Government has record surpluses but it has failed to provide the most basic aspect of a functioning society, namely, the capacity for people to afford to raise children without living in fear and worry about being able to pay for the very basic costs. Barnardos has highlighted that almost half of parents are skipping meals to ensure their children have enough to eat. That is an absolute scandal. The cost of raising children in this country has increased by 60% in the past decade.  Childcare provision is a key area in which the Government has the power to reduce the cost of living. However, it has failed to deliver its promise of a cap on childcare fees of \u20ac200 per month. We in the Social Democrats have a plan for making childcare affordable through public affordable childcare provision and early years services. This would reduce the cost for parents, improve workers' pay and deliver childcare for all those awaiting it. T\u00e1 costas iomarcach ag baint le leana\u00ed a bheith againn. T\u00e1 c\u00faram leana\u00ed inacmhainne ag teast\u00e1il \u00f3n\u00e1r ngl\u00fain \u00f3g. T\u00e1 plean ag na Daonlathaithe S\u00f3isialta chun c\u00faram leana\u00ed a dh\u00e9anamh inacmhainne. C\u00e9n f\u00e1th nach nd\u00e9anann an Rialtas \u00e9? It is time to deliver public affordable childcare that provides decent employment for workers in the sector. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I welcome the Minister to the Chamber for this very important debate. I thank Deputy Kerrane and Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward the motion on childcare. We are all agreed on the importance of this issue, albeit it is somewhat ironic that we are discussing it after midnight. While it is positive to have this debate, it is the view of my party that the Government must go further to ensure there truly is delivery of public childcare provision. The current system of early childcare education and care is simply not working for providers, educators and, most importantly, working families.  Ireland needs a new and radical plan to fix the childcare system. I have spoken previously in the House about the small and medium independent providers that are the backbone of the sector. They feel they have been left high and dry by the Government. They are barely breaking even, with some on the brink of closure. According to the figures provided by the Department of children itself, there have been nearly 1,000 closures of childcare settings since 2019. Families simply cannot afford any more closures. The Government continues to pour money into a broken system that only benefits large corporations whose sole interest is profit, not providing quality childcare. No one in the Government will acknowledge that we are sleepwalking into a corporate takeover of childcare. If this continues in the next few years, there will be no small and medium providers left. Then the system will implode, just as it has done in Australia. What will the answer be then from the Minister and the Government?  As many contributors have stated, core funding is not the answer to fixing the sector. It simply does not work. Most independent providers cannot afford to stay in core funding and are left with no other choice but to withdraw. The knock-on impact of that is felt by working families as they face a massive increase in childcare fees. The Government cannot continue to pour money into a broken system. Childcare fees are one of the biggest costs facing working families, many of whom are paying close to a second mortgage, as the Minister has heard more than once tonight. All across Ireland, families are having to make difficult choices as to whether they can afford to pay for childcare, assuming they can even find a place.  In my constituency of Kildare South, places like Kilcullen, which I have mentioned in the Chamber previously, have become childcare deserts because of the chronic lack of places. In most cases, it is women who are having to reduce their work hours and, in many cases, having to give up their careers entirely. Childcare has become the modern-day family bar, with women having to choose between having a family and having a career. Critical jobs are being lost because of Government inaction. It is heartbreaking to hear the stories of these mothers, many of whom are having to give up critical employment. This is something the Government must address urgently.  The Government also must acknowledge that reducing childcare fees alone will not provide one additional childcare place. The Government must stabilise the sector by addressing the workforce challenges. The Minister must put forward a real and radical plan to set Ireland on a path towards a public system of early childhood education and care, not a State-led one. Educators are leaving the sector in their droves because the Government has failed to recognise and value them. Staff no longer feel they can make a career out of working in the sector. I agree that the State should be paying the wages of the educators in the sector. SIPTU has reported that many providers are struggling to retain staff, with an average turnover of 25%. Despite State investment of \u20ac45 million in pay from September 2026, no pay deal has been agreed. This year's joint labour committee pay talks only started in June and continue to prove difficult.  Pay proposals were published in July of last year but still ended up being six weeks late by the time they were signed into effect on 13 October, while funding was available from September. SIPTU has been calling on employer representative groups to start pay talks as far back as the start of the year to avoid any delays, but they only finally agreed to start these talks in June. As things stand, it looks like the situation will be delayed even further this year. This means funding not spent on pay will be returned to the Exchequer again, which is totally unacceptable for educators, and will only worsen the recruitment and retention crisis in the sector.  The Government must look at reforming parental leave in Ireland too. We need to ensure that parents are able to stay at home for the first year of their child's life, but we also need to ensure that more dads are involved in the care of their child. The current system does not support this. New dads are only entitled to two weeks of paternity leave at a flat rate of \u20ac299. That represents a nearly 75% drop in wages for dads who avail of this leave. That is why the Government must look at the Scandinavian model of parental leave. It must extend parental leave at a minimum for a full year and ensure that there are mandatory quotas in place for both mams and dads.  Ireland needs a plan that works in genuine partnership with independent providers setting professional wages for educators and, most importantly, delivering good quality and affordable childcare for families. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  I thank Deputy Kerrane for bringing forward this motion. While I support it, I do not believe it goes far enough. Again, we are skirting around the fundamental issue that is wrong with the early years sector. The truth is that this sector will never be properly fixed as long as we continue to rely on a private provision model. The Minister might point to the \u20ac1.6 billion and to the public that seems like a great commitment, but the reality is that this investment has also opened doors to corporate chains and private corporations.  The Minister has allowed these entities to operate school-age childcare in public school buildings rather than using those public assets to expand State provision. A public system would allow the State to build capacity while protecting the small and medium providers that are the backbone of the sector and communities across the country. This sector is not a private luxury. It is infrastructure. It underpins the economy. It is a cost-of-living issue. It enables children and families to thrive. It is a women\u2019s equality issue.  Many Members will be my familiar with my parliamentary assistant, who has been campaigning on this since 2019. She helped to organise the sector into a union, fought for the first two pay deals and was instrumental in the Together for Public campaign. Based on her years of work, I believe the sector can be fixed. The solution is straightforward. We need to build a genuine public system alongside existing providers, expand State capacity, properly value the educators and stop relying on the market to deliver what is essentially a public service.  The early years sector is fixable if the political will is there to do it. Unlike other major infrastructure, this does not have to take decades, nor does it have to cost a fortune. If we get it right, this benefits everybody. Early childhood education and care is a public good and we need to start treating it as such. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I thank Deputy Kerrane and Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this motion. The Minister will be well aware that every TD in this House knows that parents are struggling with childcare. In my constituency of Cork North-Central, I meet these parents regularly. They are doing everything right. They are working hard. They are raising their families. They are trying to get on with life, but they are being let down by a childcare system that simply is not working.  This is about far more than the cost of childcare. It is about a shortage of places, a workforce crisis and a failure to treat early years education as the essential public service that it is. Yes, fees have fallen for some families and that is welcome, but what good is affordable childcare if there is no place available? Parents need affordability and availability. Providers need certainty and early years educators deserve decent pay, secure careers and recognition for the skilled professionals that they are. For too long Governments have relied on schemes and subsidies to prop up a system that remains fundamentally broken. We need to stop asking families to navigate a patchwork of supports and start building a childcare system that they can rely on.  The Labour Party believes that childcare is not a luxury, nor is it simply a support for parents. It is an investment in our children, families, economy and future. That means expanding capacity, creating thousands of new childcare places, reducing costs for families and properly valuing the people who educate and care for our youngest children because every child deserves the best possible start in life regardless of their postcode or their parents' income.  We have long accepted that access to primary and secondary education is a public good. It is time that we recognise that high-quality early years education is too. The question that I pose for the Government is no longer whether we can afford to build a universal public childcare system, but whether we can afford another generation of children and families being failed by the one we have. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I thank Sinn F\u00e9in and Deputy Kerrane for bringing this important motion forward. For my generation and for young parents like me, or youngish parents anyway, childcare and housing are the crucial issues. Childcare and housing are both issues of accessibility and affordability. Both are also issues that have been left to the private sector for far too long and, in both cases, there is an urgent need for strong, direct State intervention.  In this House last week, I raised issues with the T\u00e1naiste regarding a local childcare provider in Knocklyon. Recently there has been a large number of last-minute room closures. Previous flexibility under a different ownership with summer hours or part-time after-school has disappeared, and parents have been left stranded with no childcare and no notice. Parents have had to take up to 20 annual leave days across May and June to cover room closures. They are scrambling to get family or friends to help to find and pay childminders, and it is all unbelievably stressful.  The next big fear, of course, is that the childcare provider will pull out of core funding and hike its prices, leaving these parents unprotected by the very welcome fee freeze announced earlier this month. Parents have no option to move elsewhere as childcare places in Dublin South-West are so scarce. Parents are excluded from Government childcare supports and have to somehow suck up the additional fees which can double overnight, as the Minister knows, or otherwise parents, and it is mainly mums, just stop working. This is all due to the for-profit, commercialised model that this Government has promoted.  We in the Labour Party have an ambitious, costed and revolutionary plan for State-provided, universal childcare in Ireland, where we treat it just like primary education, spaces are guaranteed for children, parents have certainty over costs and accessibility, and early years educators have decent terms of employment. Let us be clear: there is no issue with quality in the current system, but we have early years educators who go over and above every day only to be forced to sign on during the summer and we need to properly value these essential workers. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  Is d\u00f3cha go bhfuil an Teachta Ahern \u00f3g go leor. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  The whole issue of access to affordable childcare is becoming critical for many parents. Affordability is an issue, and it is putting huge financial pressure, including a whole raft of other increasing costs, on parents. In the case of Laois, the average cost, according to the childcare committee, is \u20ac800 per month, but I have come across quotations as high as \u20ac1,400 a month.  The shortage of places is the other issue and there are several blackspots across the county. In common with other counties, parents just cannot get access to childcare. According to the local childcare committee again, towns such as Portlaoise, Portarlington, Mountmellick, Mountrath, Graiguecullen, Rathdowney, Abbeyleix, Durrow, Arles and Ballylinan are short of all-day provision. Some have no all-day provision at all, and Mountrath is losing its ECCE preschool this month, which is unfortunate.  The Government wants a population increase in Laois, and that is fair enough. It wants a population increase in the county of 25% over the next four to five years moving to 35% over the next seven years or so. Laois County Council recently rezoned lands for an additional 8,200 houses to be developed over the next four years, and further increases are planned after that. As matters stand, there are already long waiting lists and a huge shortage of providers, so action is required to meet the growing demand.  Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael promised to reduce monthly fees to \u20ac200, but we are a long way from that. There is a planned reduction in September of \u20ac14.30 per month, but at that rate it would take 14 or 15 years to actually get to that reduction planned by the Government.  The budget in October must see significant progress on fees, but also improvements in core funding. Progress is also required on staffing pay levels.  I welcome the Government's plan for \u20ac135 million over four years to provide directly purchased, State-led buildings and childcare facilities. However, given the existing pressures in Laois and the massive population increase that is planned, at least one of these facilities needs to be put into the county each year over the next four years.  As I said, wages for staff and recruitment need to be addressed. A career in childcare has to be seen as a viable one for young people. It has to be made attractive. We need to reduce the bureaucracy and the volume of administration for the small private providers, while we have them. Overall, the State has to become the provider of childcare. We have to follow what is done is other EU states. We need a State-led system. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Seamus Healy  The provision of childcare services is an area in which I have had a particular interest and involvement for over 30 years. The Elm Park area childcare committee brought together community activists and parents from this area of Clonmel with the aim of providing a not-for-profit childcare service for the area. Clever Clogs, as we know it, is a community-based facility which provides a not-for-profit, quality childcare service in a purpose-built unit, supported by the local community. It has a local board of management, committee staff and parents. It receives exceptional support from the county childcare committee. As chairperson of the board of management, I express my thanks and appreciation to all those involved in Clever Clogs, particularly the manager and staff of the centre, the parents and my fellow board members.  There are huge challenges currently facing the early-years sector. They include serious deficiencies in capacity; thousands of children on waiting lists; some parents paying up to \u20ac800 per month for childcare costs; poor pay and conditions for staff; and serious problems in recruitment and retention of staff. The current situation is untenable in the long term. The only solution is the roll-out of a publicly funded and delivered service. This is increasingly the view of all those operating in the sector and of those observing it, including the citizens' assembly; the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child, UNCRC; the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women, CEDAW; and Together for Public, an alliance of over 40 organisations, including the National Women's Council of Ireland, trade unions, academics, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, early childcare educators and many other civil society organisations.  Childcare must be seen as a right for all and not as a commercial service. That means having a public childcare service similar to our primary schools. There should be a guaranteed legal right to affordable, accessible and universal early education for ever child. There should be better pay and conditions for early educators, who should be paid directly by the State.  Public childcare is also a key issue for equality. We know that where the public system operates, women are much more likely to participate fully in society, whether that be in work, education, the arts or even in politics. The biggest obstacles for lone parents entering the workforce are the high cost and lack of availability of childcare. A public childcare service would certainly help in this regard.  I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this motion, which I support. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  I thank Sinn F\u00e9in and Deputy Kerrane for bringing forward this motion on childcare, which I will be supporting. Ireland is in the grip of a serious childcare crisis which has been allowed to continue for far too long. Parents are not only struggling to afford childcare but they are also struggling to access it at all. Finding a cr\u00e8che in places has become an enormous challenge for families across the country, but particularly in Donegal where thousands of children are left without a place. The latest figures from Pobal show there were over 2,000 children on a waiting list for childcare places in Donegal, with childcare costing, on average, \u20ac180 per week. It is unacceptable that families are competing for just a handful of places.  The Government must finally deliver on its promise of \u20ac200 per month childcare and take the decisive action needed to fix this crisis. The T\u00e1naiste must also deliver on his promise to address early-years facilities that are impacted by defective concrete. We know there are over 25 childcare facilities in Donegal impacted by defective concrete. When the Minister was here she talked about urgency. There is absolutely no urgency coming from her regarding defective concrete in buildings with children in those buildings. Not only this, but we are forcing children and early-years educators to go into these buildings every year. This would not be allowed to happen in County Dublin but it is allowed in Donegal.  I have raised this issue time and again but still the Government refuses to do anything about it. These buildings will not be around in ten years' time. Even our President, Catherine Connolly, has taken time out in the past six months of her Presidency to visit many of these community facilities which have been impacted by defective concrete. Yet, not a single Minister has made it their priority to address this. Even the Minister for children has tried to wash her hands of the responsibility. She has refused to answer a question I submitted regarding children impacted by defective concrete. Multiple community playgroups in Donegal face closure because they have been affected by defective concrete. Yet, under the current redress scheme, these childcare facilities do not qualify for demolition. The loss of these vital resources throughout Donegal will have serious consequences. In time, there will be nowhere for these children to go if we do not do anything about it.  The loss of these facilities will have an impact on the population of Donegal. This will be only the beginning of the childcare crisis in Donegal unless the Minister steps up. We have been saying for years that 25 facilities are facing closure because of defective concrete, yet she does nothing about it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I thank Deputy Kerrane for bringing forward this motion. I will raise two discrete issues that have been raised by childcare providers with me in my constituency of Dublin West. The first is the concern about the time it is taking for Garda vetting of applications from childcare professionals. This vetting procedure has had a new element added to it in recent months, namely, the European criminal records information system, ECRIS. This requires a new set of checks to take place, which is increasing by up to 20% the time taken for a standard application. If the applicant has an EU address, it adds ten days to the application. If it is a UK address, it is an extra 20 days for an application. This is really problematic because, as the Minister of State knows, many childcare providers are operating close to ratio. If they go below ratio, they may well have to shut a room, which creates great disruption for parents. If they are not able to get new childcare staff into the setting quickly, this is a consequence.  Groups such as Early Childhood Ireland and the county and city childcare committees are supplying childcare providers with as much information as they can but this is a big change. I ask the Minister of State and the Minister to examine if additional support can be given by the State. I ask the Minister of State to sit down with the Minister for justice to see if there are any extra resources that could be given to the Garda vetting bureau to see if more can be done here. It is a big issue, and I am sure it is coming up in what the Minister of State is hearing as well. It is a significant extra burden, and while it is probably an important set of checks, if we can alleviate some of that burden for childcare providers, we ought to do so.  When I was Minister for children I was very proud to oversee the first two pay agreements for childcare professionals, guaranteeing them rates of pay backed by dedicated State funding. I very much support the vision of degree-led teaching in our childcare system and the premium paid to staff who have a level 7 or level 8 degree to encourage and support this. However, we have to recognise that many staff have not moved past a level 5 qualification but have years or decades of experience, which makes them the very best of people to care for and educate young children. A provider who is good to their staff may often have a lot of these long-term staff who have not gone beyond a level 5. They are amazing but the way in which the formula is worked out means that the provider in such cases gets less in the core funding allocation than a provider with many more staff who may be younger and will not have as much experience but have a level 6 or a level 7 qualification. This is a dilemma I was not able to solve in my time but I would have loved to have been able to. I believe in degree-led teaching but we also have to recognise the amazing staff who have huge experience and the providers who want to keep them. More could be done there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for tabling this motion. At this late hour, I thank most of the parties who have stayed in here to debate such an important issue. Last week when I raised these issues with the Taoiseach during Leaders' Questions, he outlined the level of Government investment in childcare, but investment is not the same as sustainability. The Taoiseach answered how much Government is spending; he did not answer whether providers can survive. All around the country and particularly in rural communities, childcare providers are telling us the current funding model places enormous pressure on them. Participation in core funding is not proof that providers are financially secure. Many remain because they have no realistic alternative. The real question is this: how many providers are operating sustainably under the current model?  Government points to growth in childcare services but families deserve to know how many additional early years places have actually been created, separate from school-age children. Growth in after-school services is welcome but it does not help parents who cannot find a place for a baby, toddler or preschool child.  There is also the ongoing unfairness of historic fee freezes. Providers operating under the same conditions can receive very different levels of income because of decisions made years ago. Government has county-average fee data, so why can providers not be brought up to the county average while wider reforms are examined?  Let us not forgot what families were told before the last election. Parents were promised childcare costs of no more than \u20ac200 per month. That might be one way of getting votes but for many families it has proven to be a promise that has not been delivered. People took the Government at its word. The sad reality is many children whose parents were promised that support will be well out of early years childcare before meaningful action is taken.  Families cannot keep waiting while Government points to spending figures and future plans. A sustainable childcare sector must be able to do more than keep the lights on. Providers need to be able to pay staff fairly, invest in their services, build for the future and expand where communities need places. This is one of the most serious issues today. A childcare system cannot be judged solely on how much Government spends or even by how much parents save. It must be judged on whether providers remain viable, educators are retained and families can access the early years places they need. That is the question providers and families are asking and it remains unanswered.  It is remiss that we have not thanked all involved in the early years childcare sector. They have been through the most enormous nightmare in recent years. I remember when they were outside the gate and the Minister would not even go out and support them on the day. Sometimes it is about standing with a genuine organisation like this. They were not standing out there for the good of their health; they were out there for to keep the doors open. The parents came out in their hundreds to support them. Unfortunately, we had an uncaring Government then and I think we have an uncaring Government now because the sector is still feeling the pinch.  I sat down with the sector's representatives over the last few weeks. I raised it very specifically at Leaders' Questions last week to the Taoiseach. He is not taking in the reality of the crisis they find themselves in. They are not shutting their doors because they want to but because they are given no choice in the matter. Successive Governments have ignored the crisis they are going through. The current Minister needs to step up to the mark and understand that.  We speak quite a lot about bills. This week Electric Ireland is raising the price of electricity. Providers have to pay these electricity bills from money they do not have. It is a serious crisis and we are not taking it seriously enough. The people have been promised \u20ac200 per month. They are not getting anywhere near it and we are not going to keep the promise the Government made at the rate it is going. I think it is in the programme for Government. The Government will not suddenly give a huge amount of money. It needs to look at and speak to the sector. The people who know are the people working on the ground. The Government does not seem to understand that if they are in crisis and closing their businesses, there is something wrong somewhere. They are not doing it just to pass the time. These are very committed people. The people I spoke to have given time, blood, sweat and tears to their jobs. They are giving it up and paying it out. Sometimes if the wife is trying to run the business and is struggling, she is dipping into her husband's income from another sector to keep the doors open. It is astonishing we have let things go that far and that there is so little between profit and loss and between an early years childcare provider surviving and not surviving. The Government must discuss this with them, thrash out the difficulties, get this sorted and nip it in the bud before the next election. It needs to be done. They are willing to sit down. Any time they are sitting down, nobody is listening on the other side. That has been going on for many years.  I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Higgins, to show interest in resolving this crisis if she really is interested in doing so. Everybody will then see there is a chance they will only have to pay \u20ac200 per month for childcare. It is all down to the hard struggling parents in this country and the early years childcare providers who have served the country with great distinction. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing this motion to the floor. It is one of the more important motions we have spoken on. It is 36 minutes past midnight in the House. That is a great testament to everybody who has stayed here to contribute to the debate and be part of the debate. Childcare is one of the biggest issues that hits us at the doorsteps, certainly at the last general election. As my colleague just said, I was listening to people who said with great hope that childcare would be \u20ac200. Those people feel extremely let-down and disappointed with this Government and duped by this Government, to say the least. That needs to be on the record of the House.  I respect the spirit behind the motion. I do not agree precisely with the measures within it but I plan to support it tonight.  I want to speak of a childcare model that I think Ireland would benefit substantially from replicating. Ireland has among the highest childcare costs in Europe, often well over \u20ac1,000 per month per child. I have a case in my constituency where somebody is paying \u20ac1,700 per month for a child. It is not unusual and if we went onto the streets of Dublin, Cork or Limerick, we would find similar prices. The Government's response to this has always been to funnel money and subsidies through a formal childcare sector via the national childcare scheme, which assumes every parent wants and needs institutional childcare. Many parents do not. Some would prefer to leave their child with a grandparent, neighbour, friend, uncle or aunt, and some would prefer to have one parent at home, at least while the child is small. The subsidy system only recognises a registered provider, which means the State has already decided for you what counts as acceptable when it comes to the care of your own child.  Finland in 1985 - 40 years ago - looked at that entire model and said it was not working for them. The Finnish childcare model developed in 1985 involved giving parents direct payments of approximately \u20ac340 per month if a child is under three and not in municipal childcare. There are supplements for additional children and local municipal top-ups. That means the parent gets to decide how to use the money and whether they stay at home, pay the money to a grandparent, uncle or aunt, hire a private childminder or make other arrangements as they see fit. The money follows the child directly and the family decides on what is best for the child. Almost 60% of the eligible population in Finland have taken this up. Denmark runs a similar system. Norway offers a similar scheme. There is nothing exotic or untested about what I am suggesting. The Finnish model trusts parents; our model in this country does not. In Finland, if a mother is happy to stay at home with the child, the state will support that. If a neighbour, friend or grandparent is willing to take care of a child, the state will support that. If you are a stay-at-home father, the state will equally support that.  In Ireland, we only subsidise institutional care. I seriously believe we need to be looking at that and at different models. The childcare policy in this country tells parents they are not qualified to decide on what is best for their own child. It should be a parent, not a civil servant, who makes that judgement.  My colleague mentioned viability and the situation in this country. I do not believe that. I am seeing cr\u00e8ches closing. I am getting calls on a regular basis, as I am sure are other TDs, - that there are cr\u00e8ches closing in Glanmire, Mayfield, Ballyvolane and Carrignavar. They just cannot keep the doors open. Then, there are people on the other side of it going into early childcare who are not getting paid a decent salary and cannot make a living out of it. They would love to be because that is their vocation. They would not have signed up for this many years ago but it is their vocation. They cannot afford to work in it and live and sustain a living today. We are just not getting childcare right in this country. It is not as if it is an illusion or a very difficult mathematical equation for us. We have an outdated model that is not working. We need to look at the best standards and practice across northern Europe that have been proven to work over and over again. The model has been working for 40 years in Finland and has 60% uptake. No other country is as expensive as we are for childcare. There is something radically wrong when we have parents who cannot afford to have a child because of childcare costs. That should be the last thing on their minds. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aisling Dempsey","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aisling Dempsey  Throughout this debate, not one person has argued that we do not need high-quality, accessible and affordable childcare. Everyone, including the Minister of State, agrees that we need it and need it now. The question is not one of need; the question is whether it is possible to deliver nationwide, high-quality, affordable childcare for every family overnight. If we are all honest here, the answer would be \"No\", unfortunately. That is why in our programme for Government, Fianna F\u00e1il has committed to progressively reducing childcare costs to a maximum \u20ac200 per child per month over the lifetime of the Government from 2024 to 2029. That is the commitment and that is the published plan and pathway to \u20ac200 per month. However, families are not being asked to wait until 2029 to see any benefit; far from it. We are reducing the maximum fees that parents and guardians can be charged year by year. In 2025, the maximum weekly fee was \u20ac295 and from this September, it will fall to \u20ac183. That is real progress, real savings for families and real money back in their pockets. Of course, there is more to do. Our commitment is not fulfilled but we are delivering on that commitment step by step and as Fianna F\u00e1il spokesperson on children, I intend to see that work completed.  Government investment in childcare has doubled in recent years and unlike in many other areas of public spending, families and providers can see the positive impacts of that increased investment. We know that recruitment and retention remain major challenges and for too long, early educators and care providers have not been recognised as the professionals they are, yet they care for, educate and nurture our children every day, often spending more waking hours with them than we do ourselves. Tonight is a case in point. The Government and our Minister recognise that. Although childcare is delivered primarily by private providers, the Department has provided ring-fenced funding specifically to support improved pay for staff despite the State not being their employer. The motion suggests that the Government should step in and take over the obligations of the private employer but that is unworkable. It is too much interference. Employers need to agree via the JLC the appropriate pay for their own employees. In saying that, the level of financial support is a clear demonstration of the Government's commitment not just to affordable childcare, but to building a high-quality sustainable childcare system that works for children, parents and those who dedicate their careers to caring for our youngest citizens. We are on the journey to providing a publicly funded State-led childcare model and we should take over private childcare facilities wholesale. We have very fine, educated, excellent private childcare providers out there who should be encouraged to stay within the industry. Running private and public models together gives parents a choice and gives them freedom and that is what we need within the sector.  Core funding has been lambasted in the House tonight and generally as well as not providing enough funding and supports to our early childhood care providers but the facts do not bear that out. Now at the end of its fourth year, funding has almost doubled and is now a staggering \u20ac480 million. At the end of last year, the Department undertook an analysis of withdrawals from core funding over the three years of its existence. Some 592 services withdrew from core funding but 415 of them returned, which is a 70% return rate. So far, only eight services have left core funding this year, with three of them already returning. That is 93% of all eligible services taking part in core funding. That speaks for itself.  I commend the Minister on the amount of reform that has been undertaken in childcare, but she is still seeking to extend existing schemes like the access and inclusion model to children aged three years and under. This model currently in operation can be a game-changer for our most vulnerable children. The earlier we get to our children with additional needs, the better their outcome. I thank the Minister and Minister of State for their foresight in this regard at the Department. I will continue in my role as spokesperson on children to advocate for as much funding as possible in the upcoming budget to achieve this and all our important goals in childcare.  Some parts of the motion before the House tonight appear contradictory. In one part, it is claimed that we need more childcare places for children aged under one and in another, the Minister is being asked to provide parental supports to allow parents to stay at home with babies aged under one. I actually agree with both of these policies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  That is up to the parent if he or she wants that "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aisling Dempsey","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aisling Dempsey  I beg the Deputy's pardon. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  That is up to the parent. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aisling Dempsey","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aisling Dempsey  The Deputy might let me finish. I actually agree with both policies. I hope to see them progress with relevant Ministers, like the Minister for Social Protection. More places for children aged under one is being addressed under schemes such as building blocks already. I hope we continue to make progress on this over the coming years. Parents should have the freedom to return to work as and when is right for their particular families. Unfortunately, I do not support the motion but despite that, I commend Deputy Kerrane on her work on this and her experience, knowledge and contributions to the children's committee on which we both serve. I thank the Minister of State and the Minister for their work in this area and commend their progress to date. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan  Initially when I saw this tabled by the Business Committee last week, I wanted to get in early to speak. I did not realise it would be 12:50 on Wednesday morning. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  It is early. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan  It is early for some people. On a genuine level, I am actually happy. I listened to people from Independent Ireland just before they exited the Chamber listing villages where, allegedly, closures of childcare facilities have happened in the past while. I think one was actually accurate. The rest of the villages were just thrown into the debate because it sounded good. That is not to say there are not problems in this area; there 100% are. It is not to say there is not a shortfall of places because there are. Trust me: I have been that parent with three kids under five looking for childcare and it is incredibly difficult living in an area like Glanmire, which is suburban. There are lots of young families. Glanmire is the only village that was named out of four or five villages in my constituency where closures actually happened in the past 12 months. I would like to place that on the record because the rest is not factual.  That said, that issue actually had a potential resolution, which I negotiated with the childcare provider and a nearby school and they sought not to proceed with that. Again, as I said, it is inaccurate to suggest that there are wholesale closures in Cork North-Central. It is not true. That said, it is generally recognised that there is a shortfall of 40,000 places nationwide. There is no point in belying that fact. It is it is true and it is difficult, as I said, particularly for younger children under the age of one. I have experienced it in my constituency where it is difficult to get baby rooms for a whole litany of reasons.  The reason I came in here tonight was to speak specifically about the State-led early learning and childcare capital programme, which the Minister announced a number of months ago. When I initially heard that announcement to \u20ac135 million over the lifetime of this Government, I was enthused. I brought a number of projects to the Department. Many of them are still being scrutinised.  None of them has received a final response regarding if they are going delivered this year, next year or in three years\u2019 time. I was initially enthused by that announcement. I understand that is part of a programme where we are targeting 800 places by the end of 2027 through that programme.  I wish to speak specifically about one such submission that was made on behalf of the people of Glanmire. This was done without identifying the property by a private building owner who has full planning permission for up to 150 childcare places. He is willing to sell the unit. He is willing to rent. The unit just needs to be kitted out, which would take approximately two to three months. It is something that could be delivered fairly quickly. The building owner is quite open to doing this with the State. When I read through the criteria, I was enthused by it because I know this can be delivered quickly. We are still awaiting an outcome or decision on that.  I want to speak about the area of Glanmire where I live. It has predominantly young families. It is a suburban environment. There are many people moving in from different areas and working in multinationals in nearby Little Island and the city. When I canvassed the doors in the recent local elections, and indeed going back to my election campaign in 2024, I will be honest with the Minister of State, there were issues around migration, the cost of living and the usual issues that we debate frequently in this House, but one of most the prevalent issues was access to childcare for those young families.  I am here at 12.50 a.m. to make the case for Glanmire. It is a very large area in the east part of the city with 20,000 people. I speculate that if we do not see this opened, all we are going to see is more and more people going into the likes of Mayfield and further afield into the city and city centre to access childcare. I am here to make the case. I hope to have a meeting with the Minister in the coming weeks in relation to this application. I am just hopeful that it will be viewed positively because for a relatively little return of that \u20ac135 million budget that she has over the next while, we could see real delivery of up to 150 places in the village of Glanmire.  I reference Cork Chamber which we get frequent briefings from. It has asked persistently that childcare would be recognised as essential economic infrastructure. When I look around my own constituency, there are people I know of my own age who are struggling to access childcare place. The necessity and importance that should be placed on childcare is obvious. There are many people either taking reduced working hours or trying to juggle work by working from home and having the demands of childcare placed on that is quite difficult. Again, some credence or scrutiny should be given to that request that it would be recognised as an essential economic infrastructure and resource it if the Government is going to make that commitment.  My final point is in relation to special needs education in the whole area of childcare. There is only a handful of childcare facilities across the country that deals specifically with children whether they are diagnosed or yet to be diagnosed in terms of early intervention and so on. It is pivotal that, particularly the future public funding of capital projects as part of the scheme that I mentioned with the \u20ac135 million, a portion of that funding should be ring-fenced specifically to cater for the needs of children with special needs who are struggling to either access childcare, afterschool care or whatever the case may be. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Children, Disability and Equality (Deputy Emer Higgins)  I welcome the opportunity to conclude this important debate on the Minister's behalf and reflect on the range of perspectives that have been shared across the House. As the Minister set out in her opening remarks, there are three central elements that guide the programme for Government's commitment to early learning and childcare. First, while significant progress has been made, we recognise that challenges remain and are committed to addressing them. Second, meaningful and measurable improvements have already been delivered. Third, that progress has not happened by itself. It is the result of deliberate, structured and evidence-based programmes of reforms being implemented by the Government.  This Government is confident that the commitment that we have made in the programme for Government will be fully realised over the lifetime of this Government. That includes ensuring that parents will pay no more than \u20ac200 per month for early learning and childcare. Early learning educators and school-age childcare practitioners will be remunerated at a level that reflects the importance of their work. State-led services will operate alongside private and community services, as well as newly regulated cohorts of childminders. Ireland will close the gap between its level of investment in early learning and childcare and the EU average.  In its motion, the Opposition suggests that there is no progress or plan to deliver quality, affordable or accessible early learning and childcare. We as the Government do not accept this. This evidence is clear. Costs are falling. Investment is rising. Capacity is increasing. A structured multiyear plan is in place through Shaping the Future. Through the Together for Better funding model, including core funding the national childcare scheme and the ECCE programme, the Government is already delivering tangible financial benefits to hundreds of thousands of families. This year's budget builds on the progress that has been made with State investment in early learning and childcare increasing to \u20ac1.52 billion. That represents an increase of more than 116% since 2020. This level of investment is unprecedented, but more importantly, it is about delivering real outcomes. More than 105,000 children will benefit from the ECCE programme this year with participation rates continuing to exceed 96%. Approximately 277,000 children will benefit from the national childcare scheme with growing numbers of families also accessing supports through regulated childminding settings.  As the Minister said at the outset, this debate must go beyond cost and access. It must be about quality outcomes and ensuring that every child who enters an early learning and childcare setting is supported to learn, to develop and to thrive. High-quality early learning and childcare can be transformative for children, supporting their development, reducing inequality and giving them the best possible start to life. Our task to ensure that every child has the opportunity to benefit from it. To realise those benefits fully, we must ensure that every child has the opportunity to experience them. From my perspective as the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, that means ensuring that our early learning and childcare system is genuinely inclusive. For children with disabilities or those with additional needs, access alone is not enough. What matters is meaningful participation, ensuring that every child is fully supported, included and enabled to achieve their full potential alongside their peers.  The Access and Inclusion Model, AIM, programme is central to that approach. Through AIM, a range of targeted supports are available to ensure that children with disabilities or additional needs can access and participate in the ECCE scheme within mainstream early learning and childcare settings. This year, AIM will support approximately 8,400 children with disabilities. It will support them to access and participate in the ECCE programme while improvements to the AIM level 7 application process will reduce the administrative burden, and it will make it easier for services to be accessed. Alongside AIM, the Equal Start initiative helps to ensure that children and families experiencing disadvantage can also access and participate meaningfully in early learning and childcare. The programme now supports more than 800 priority settings nationwide, delivering practical supports to help children thrive and to address the effects of disadvantage from the earliest years. This includes staffing supports, nutrition programmes, such as Bia Blasta, language development initiatives like Early Talk Boost and targeted measures to support the inclusion of Traveller and Roma children.  Taken together, AIM and Equal Start reflect the Government's focus on ensuring that quality provision goes hand in hand with equity and inclusion meeting the needs of every child. However, quality provision depends not only on the supports available to children, but also on the people delivering them every day. No early learning and childcare system can deliver high-quality outcomes without a strong skilled supported workforce. That is why this Government has been clear that improving pay and conditions across the sector remains a key priority. We recognise that the level of pay for early years educators and school-aged childcare practitioners does not yet fully reflect the value and the importance of the work they do for children, families, communities and the wider economy. While the Government is the primary funder of the sector, it is not the employer and cannot directly set wages or conditions for any staff in the sector. Instead, as Members will be aware, the Joint Labour Committee provides the established mechanism through which employer and employee representatives can negotiate minimum rates of pay, which are then set out in the employment regulation orders, EROs. Through successive EROs, minimum pay rates have increased three times in four years, delivering an average increase of 15%, as was referenced by Deputy O'Gorman who previously served as the Minister in this Department.  Most recently, the October 2025 ERO provided an average pay increase of 10%, benefiting more than 67% of the workforce.  In recognition of the importance of supporting these improvements, the Government has increased core funding from \u20ac393 million to \u20ac483 million, alongside an additional \u20ac45 million in ring-fenced funding to help services to meet the increased wage costs that will arise from employment regulation orders.  At the same time, through Shaping the Future phase 2, we are examining how pay and conditions can be strengthened further over the medium to long term, reflecting a balanced, sustainable approach that delivers improvements today while building towards lasting reform for the future. In addition, \u20ac135 million will be made available between this year and 2030 for the State-led early learning and childcare capital programme, which will provide high-quality, accessible learning and childcare services. This programme will commence this year with investment in buildings, marking a significant milestone for the Department. Capital funding will support the acquisition or fit-out, or both, of buildings as required, with the Department working alongside not-for-profit providers to design, operate and open services.  To access potential sites, a forward planning model has been developed within the Department. This model seeks to identify the nature and volume of different types of early learning and childcare places across the country and how that aligns with the number or children in the corresponding age cohorts at local area level. An extensive data analysis and cleaning exercise has been undertaken to map available publicly subsidised supply. Alongside this, a suite of appraisal criteria tools have been developed to assess potential projects against key performance indicators, KPIs, such as quality, inclusion, accessibility and affordability. The Department is now assessing project options in order to identify which ones are best placed to deliver on the goals of the programme.  Alongside investing in new capacity, we must continue to support the services already at the heart of communities across the funding. That is what core funding is for. It is designed to help to deliver affordability for parents through ensuring no fee increases, maximum fee caps and offering the national childhood scheme and the early childhood care and education programmes to all eligible children. It is designed to deliver quality through investment in the workforce, including improved pay and conditions and support for graduate leadership within services. It is designed to deliver sustainability for providers through substantial and consistent investment in the sector distributed on an equitable basis.  From its introduction, core funding has been subject to continuous evaluation and refinement and to ensuring that the scheme continues to evolve, respond to feedback and deliver value for money. For the fifth programme year, the Minister, Deputy Norma Foley, has announced an additional \u20ac20.6 million in new full-year funding, which will support services to maintain key fee-management measures, including the fee freeze and the minimum fee caps, supporting affordability for parents. This will help to ensure that the benefits of Government investment continue to be passed on to parents and families, while providing stability and sustainability for the sector.  I am conscious there is a number of other points in my speech but there are 44 seconds to go and it is 1.05 a.m. so I am sure people want this to be wrapped. Very quickly, I will mention that phase 2 of the national action plan for childminding is also something the Department is working on really closely with childminders and representative organisations. That will be part of the plan. The first five strategy, which is about families who now have access to up to 46 weeks of paid leave alongside unpaid leave entitlements, represents a significant investment in supporting parents as well. Taken together, these measures also help.  Ultimately, I thank everybody who works in this sector and the entrepreneurs who have invested and stood up businesses that are there to support families throughout the country. For everybody who works in this sector, it is a tough but really important job. It supports families, keeps our economy thriving and, most importantly, supports and educates children. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathy Bennett  It is simply indefensible that more than a decade after the media started referring to the cost of childcare as comparable to a second mortgage, the pace of action from the Minister of State's Government could be so lethargic. In 2024, my colleague and the Sinn F\u00e9in spokesperson on children, Deputy Kerrane, published a detailed costed plan outlining how Sinn F\u00e9in would deliver childcare capped at \u20ac200 per month. Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael, in advance of the general election in 2024, went on to cog Sinn F\u00e9in's homework. The problem is that while the Minister of State's party lifted the intended result in its promise to the electorate, it never showed any workings and it has not since. Now, the Minister of State says it is not about cost.  Despite Fine Gael having pledged to have a plan within 100 days, there are upwards on 50,000 children on waiting lists for childcare places, 50% workforce turnover in some counties and an employment regulation order process for setting pay that is simply not working. There is a dire need for urgency from the Minister of State's Government to finally publish a roadmap for the delivery of the \u20ac200 per month that Fine Gael promised in the election in 2024. With so many families continuing to pay over \u20ac800 per month, the Government's current policy - putting costs closer to \u20ac200 per week than per month - is simply not good enough.  Our early educators deserve better. Families and their children deserve better. I ask the House to endorse Sinn F\u00e9in's motion tonight and let us begin the work of actually delivering for early years educators, the people who both need and deserve this. People have been waiting 574 days now for a plan the T\u00e1naiste said he would bring forward in 100. How long is it going to take for this to happen for our parents, children and early years educators? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  The Government announced a \u20ac135 million investment in State-led early learning and childcare. It is an initiative that promises to deliver thousands of publicly owned places by 2030. The principle is sound and significant but it has to deliver. I want, tonight, to insist that this promise must be delivered in County Meath.  The Department's own analysis confirms that demand for childcare remains higher than available supply in certain parts of the country. Nowhere is this more acute than in County Meath. Dunshaughlin is a case in point. The Willows estate in Dunshaughlin now has more than 1,000 homes. When they first started selling houses there almost a decade ago, they did so with the promise of a community with essential services and amenities. Central to this was the provision of a cr\u00e8che. The land is there, ready and waiting. Private providers have come and gone but still, there is no building or cr\u00e8che. This is precisely the kind of gap that the State-led scheme is supposed to fill.  Recent responses were repeated by the Minister again tonight. The Minister said that capital funding will be used to acquire or fit out the building, or both, depending on requirements. In the case of the Willows, there is no building to acquire or fit out. I call on the Minister to work with local not-for-profit groups to deliver State-led early years services at the Willows in Dunshaughlin. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maurice Quinlivan  The cost-of-living crisis is impacting families of all backgrounds. The bite is being felt at the petrol pump, at the grocery till, in the utility bills and beyond. For working families, one of the most expensive monthly outlays is childcare fees. Families in Limerick with both parents working full time who are not fortunate enough to have additional family support are paying up to \u20ac300 per week on cr\u00e8che fees. For those availing of a childminder, the fee is closer to \u20ac250 per week, which is a significant expense, particularly during a cost-of-living crisis that has stripped families of available income.  These are, of course, families who have been fortunate enough to secure childcare places in the first place. Up to 50,000 children across the State remain on waiting lists for childcare places that do not exist. In one of the most disadvantaged areas of Limerick, Ballinacurra Weston, there are 214 children on a waiting list with no early childcare places from September at Our Lady of Lourdes Community Centre. The staff in the local facility are faced with prospect of having to tell parents that there is no place available for their child.  Childcare is not a luxury for families; it is a necessity that allows parents to go to work. While many parents struggle to find a place for their child, other parents worry that the childcare arrangements could suddenly end because of the difficulty faced in retaining early years educators and school-age childcare practitioners. It is abundantly clear from talking to those in the profession that the current employment regulation order is not working. The State must be prepared to work towards taking responsibility for employment costs and wages where necessary.  Cr\u00e8ches across the State are coming under huge pressure due to the lack of sufficient core funding.  One cr\u00e8che in a Limerick suburb faced the prospect of closing its kitchen due to the lack of funding, adding to the cost for families who must spend more to provide meals for their children attending the creche. The core funding scheme must be reviewed. It should be done with a view to indexing it to inflation. Cr\u00e8ches and childcare facilities throughout the State are functioning month to month due to increases in the costs they face. I urge parties to support the motion's objectives of increasing the number of early years places and school-age childcare hours in September, the immediate review of the core funding scheme and publication of the details on how the Government is going to deliver \u20ac200 per month childcare with a clear timescale on how it will be achieved. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  The lack of childcare facilities is truly reaching breaking point. In my own constituency in north Kildare I hear from families who are constantly frustrated in trying to find childcare for their child. In every town in north Kildare the population is growing rapidly but the critical infrastructure for childcare facilities is not being provided. I am dealing with one in Kilcock at the moment. The impact of this failure is devastating, especially for women, who bear the brunt of it. Every day women are forced to make the impossible choice to step away from their careers, ambitions and financial independence. I hear story after story of women who feel that the study and hard work they did to get a good job goes down the drain if they cannot get childcare. It is unacceptable that women are thinking like this in 2026.  During the last general election campaign, Deputy Kerrane outlined a detailed plan of how Sinn F\u00e9in would deliver early childcare for \u20ac10 a day while increasing the pay and respect for the workers in the sector. The Government, after scoffing at it at first, subsequently promised to deliver it for \u20ac200 a month, which is a roundabout way of saying \u20ac10 a day, copying the Deputy's homework. However, the Government still did not get it right because it has failed in its promise to deliver \u20ac200 per month childcare within the first 100 days of Government. Furthermore, the cost of what it is promising now is more like \u20ac200 a week, which is completely unaffordable for many families throughout the State. While affordability is key, accessibility is just as important because that is not there either. It is high time the Government finally delivered on its \u20ac200 a month childcare promise and increased the pay and respect for the professionals in early years education and childcare practitioners from September. It is mainly women who work in this sector. The women on both sides of this know that their Government does not seem to care about women. The Government does not need to copy Deputy Kerrane's homework tonight. She is handing it the solution, if only it would take it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  It is as though we are reading two different motions. Contrary to what both Ministers have said, the motion is not just about affordability and accessibility. In fact, in that first \u20ac10 a day childcare plan in 2024, I ensured it was not just about affordability and accessibility, as I have done with this motion. It is about our educators. Mostly, the motion is about paying them what they deserve. It is also about childminders, core funding and parents' leave, issues I have raised repeatedly since I became my party spokesperson on children in 2024.  The Minister cited an omission of high quality. Our educators and school-aged care practitioners are high quality. The problem is that high quality is not being recognised in terms of pay. The Minister said JLC is an effective approach to pay. There has not been one year where the Minister has not had to go out of her way to get the JLC to the table to actually deliver on pay. Most times, they end up in the Labour Court. I cannot fathom how that can be in any way called an effective approach to pay. There are educators who would earn more in a supermarket in many cases. They wait on the whim to see whether they will get 20 cent, 50 cent or 60 cent. That is no way to treat professionals. They are professionals at this level. We have had constant issues with core funding. The Minister said a review is called for in the motion but there is already a review. There is a review into year one. We are looking at costs from four years ago, which are totally irrelevant today, instead of looking at the core funding in its totality. When just 1% of childminders in the State have signed up for the regulations, she cannot say there has been excellent consultation and things are going well. Things are not going well. We need to look at child minders, look at our educators and at our providers. If we do not get pay right in terms of our educators, we can forget about costs and about childcare places; we will have no childcare sector at all. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  T\u00e1 an v\u00f3t\u00e1il curtha siar go dt\u00ed an ch\u00e9ad am v\u00f3t\u00e1la seachtaini\u00fail eile. In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until this week's division time. Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis na Teachta\u00ed go l\u00e9ir. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 1.15 a.m. go dt\u00ed 9 a.m., D\u00e9 C\u00e9adaoin, an 1 I\u00fail 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 1.15 a.m. until 9 a.m. on Wednesday, 1 July 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services: Motion [Private Members]"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-06-30"},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-07-01T02:12:52+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-06-25","counts":{"contributorCount":135,"divisionCount":0,"debateSectionCount":41,"questionCount":29,"billCount":2},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"State Savings Schemes","counts":{"speechCount":12,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_3.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  The Minister\u2019s Department led a forum for stakeholders for representative bodies and policymakers in relation to the savings and investment accounts scheme under design. These voices, no doubt, have a role to play and a place in the discussion. A scheme of this scope, however, would traditionally have had a public consultation process, and that was not the case here. What engagement has there been with the public? What research has been done by the Minister or his Department on public views of how to design a savings and investment accounts scheme? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Finance (Deputy Simon Harris)  I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 4 together.  I thank Deputy Doherty for his question. An Teachta O'Flynn also has a question. Ireland still does not have a sufficiently diversified savings and investment culture. This is something we largely agree on. Too much of people\u2019s hard-earned savings remains in low-yield deposits, where inflation can erode value over time. Deposit accounts are right for many people and for many needs but they cannot be the only practical option that we have available for many. Investment in capital markets can offer households another path to long-term financial well-being, while also supporting growth and competitiveness in the wider economy.  In recognition of the importance of encouraging retail investment, the last budget provided for a reduction in the rate of taxation on returns from Irish and equivalent investment funds and Irish and certain foreign life assurance policies from 41% to 38%. That budget, however, also included a commitment to publish a roadmap for the taxation of retail investment, and set out an approach to simplify and adapt the tax framework to further support retail investment in Ireland. This arose from a key finding in the funds sector report 2030, which included an extensive public consultation. The starting point for this process, then, was that report. The funds review was then included as established Government policy and set out in the programme for Government.  There has been extensive public outreach on the proposed investment account policy. On 31 March, at the first annual savings and investment forum, I announced that my Department is currently working on the development of an investment account. This forum brought together key stakeholders from across the financial services sector, policymakers and, importantly, consumer representatives, including the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, to support the continued evolution of Ireland\u2019s investment landscape. Together with the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, I recently convened a representative cross-section of the funds and asset management sector. I also convened a consumer round table, which I think was this week, to discuss plans for the introduction of a new investment account.  I and my officials have held over 30 meetings to date in relation to the proposed investment account. These have included meetings with financial services firms, consumer representatives, the European Commission and other member states and jurisdictions which offer such accounts. Officials in my Department are currently developing policy options regarding the investment account framework which will form part of the deliberations for budget 2027. The aim is to legislate for the framework in 2026 and to allow accounts to be offered from 2027.  I say sincerely to Deputy Doherty and all the Deputies in the House that if there are other people who wish to feed into this process and who feel they have not had that opportunity, I ask them to please come forward. We have had extensive engagement. This has already been an elongated process. There was the public consultation as part of the funds review but we are very happy to hear from as many diverse voices as possible. While there has not been a formal public consultation process at this stage, and I take the Deputy\u2019s point, I am very happy to hear any further views that are required for that we could benefit from to feed into the process. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  The T\u00e1naiste is right in saying there has not been a public consultation in relation to this issue. The funds review was separate. It looked at the taxation aspect but did not argue for this type of savings and investment scheme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Sure. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  That was not the consultation that was under review at that time. To tell the Minister the God\u2019s honest truth, we know very little because we are still in the dark in relation to what this scheme is going to look like. We are told it is going to be announced on budget day. There has been no consultation with the public. There has been consultation with stakeholders, other groups, with very wealthy asset managers and so on. The Minister has had extensive meetings with asset managers, wealth managers, financial planners, digital platforms, banks and insurance firms but there has been no real engagement with the public. This is concerning, given that this is going to be a major scheme that will impact the public. We know from media reports that, for example, the largest asset management firm in the world, BlackRock, has had extensive meetings with the Department and Ministers. That type of extensive lobbying behind the scenes by some of the largest financial companies in the world raises legitimate questions about whether the public interest is being served. Why has there been no time for a public consultation when discussions have been going on behind closed doors with powerful financial interests for three years now, as we have learned from media reports? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his reply to both of us. I appreciate what the T\u00e1naiste is saying. He has had 30 meetings, as he said. There are questions to be answered, however. While I agree with and welcome the entire scheme as it is important to get people, especially younger people saving and into that routine, it does need to be thrashed out by the Oireachtas. I suspect we may need legislation on it.  The questions I want to put to the T\u00e1naiste, and I think these are the questions on everybody\u2019s lips, are: what exact tax rate and threshold will apply to this scheme and will the deemed disposal rule be scrapped? I think the deemed disposal rule is very unfair double taxation. I do not think we have had enough conversation around this aspect. If there has been a conversation around it, it certainly has not been published in respect of the 30 meetings behind closed doors. I am not being facetious in saying that.  We then have to look at the existing investors who have already put their moneys away, and whether tax penalties will apply to them and, if so, what they will be. There is also the question of whether the scheme will be open to investors who have existing accounts to move over to. I ask the T\u00e1naiste to seriously look at what is done in the United Kingdom and how that tax system works very well to get people to open such accounts. I say this because I suspect we may have a problem if we just go with the old system of deemed disposal. It is not going to work and people are going to run away from it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I reject the assertion that the meetings take place behind closed doors. They are just meetings, the door is closed, but there are lots of people in the room. We have had meetings with the Central Bank, the European Commission, and the CCPC. That was a very public event and people will be well aware of it because it was covered widely in the media.  I do, however, take the point about getting this scheme right. I will make a few points. Obviously, this will definitely require legislation. The intention is to legislate for this in the finance Bill. There will, therefore, be ample time to properly scrutinise this proposal and, indeed, for the Deputy to have an input. I think that is important.  I take the point as well, although I disagree with it, in terms of how much we know about the scheme now. I would argue that we actually know more about this proposal now than we know about most budgetary measures because the budget last year gave a commitment to consult and engage on rates of taxation. Finalising issues in respect of rates of tax and amounts that might be tax free are, as all Deputies will know, matters for a budget day.  By the way, I am happy, at an appropriate point in advance of the budget, to provide a briefing to the Opposition on our thinking on this scheme. We will have different views on this issue but I do hope we can fundamentally agree with the idea that we should be offering a variety of ways for people to save and invest.  As Deputy Doherty said, we have met with lots of banks and digital platforms because they are the people who we require to provide the accounts. I wanted them to be ready to open accounts in 2027.  On the point about broader investment, I agree with Deputy O'Flynn on this point. This is not an either-or situation. I passionately believe that we need personal investment accounts in Ireland like they have in lots of other European countries. This is not my idea. Many other countries have already done this, and my view is that we need to get on board. That will not, however, be enough in and of itself. There are anomalies in the taxation system, and I think deemed disposal is one. Again, all these issues are matters for budget day. Reducing the deemed disposal taxation rate from 41% to 38% misses the broader point, which is whether this measure is fulfilling the policy objective it was intended to fulfil. I am not so sure it is. If there is a need for anti-avoidance measures, is deemed disposal the correct way to go about it? I am not convinced it is, by the way. Do we have a better way, as an Oireachtas, to overhaul this provision?  On the specific example of the UK, I met the Chancellor of the Exchequer on what the UK is doing. I also met Swedish representatives on what that country has done, and representatives from a number of other countries. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  We have discussed deemed disposal and how that could be changed, making sure it does not just benefit the ultra-rich and allow for the avoidance of tax on significant assets. There is a real question in relation to the public scrutiny of what is going on. The Minister said we know a lot but, in fairness, we do not. We do not know what the thresholds are going to be. We do not know what the rate is going to be. We do not know if there is going to be tax inside the investment. We do not know if it is going to be for investments in Ireland or investments internationally. There is a lot we do not know and there has been no public consultation. There is no opportunity for the public to actually formally feed in their views in relation to this proposal.  From the very start, we have said this scheme needs to meet two criteria. It needs to work for ordinary people. It cannot be a way for the rich to avoid tax and, effectively, get a tax cut. It also needs to have a public investment aspect. There are also, however, serious risks. The Central Bank warned about the bubble in artificial intelligence, AI, and inflated values in relation to some of the products in that area. Investment is not for everybody. Investment contains risks, so there are serious questions in relation to how this scheme will be designed and implemented, and it needs to have proper public scrutiny. I urge the Minister, therefore, to formally open a public consultation process to allow for ordinary people to give their views in relation to what is under consideration. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his reply. I appreciate he is going to open consultation with, and have a briefing for, the Opposition. I think there will be a lot of support across the House for that. I again ask the T\u00e1naiste to look at the UK\u2019s individual savings account, ISA, in respect of which a commitment has been given, in the wake of having met the Chancellor of the Exchequer.  There is a problem with taxation. At the moment, if a person invests \u20ac10,000, for example, and that person is being taxed on it every eight years, then the tax on that investment has already been paid. That is a serious anomaly. If I were a private citizen, I would probably be taking a challenge to the High Court regarding this issue because it does seem to be double or even triple taxation. What we are not taking into account is that the value of investments goes up and down. The other thing we are doing that also needs to be addressed is that if someone is a landlord and has a big mortgage, then they are being taxed on the rent they are receiving. Quite often, those landlords do not receive any of that rent because it is being paid directly to the mortgage lender. We need to close off those doors as well because it is unfair taxation.  Very often there are investment plans of 30 years that people have put together because they do not have a pension or a savings fund. I would like a broader conversation about this. I am happy to meet the Minister to give him a couple of ideas. This is not about challenging him; this is about getting the system right and getting people back saving again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I am happy to be challenged, and I will also be happy to meet because I do want to get this right. I really do because it is important. What we have done is laid out the principles. The details on specific rates of tax and the like would always be a matter for the budget. There is no Minister for Finance who announces tax rates in advance of the budget, as we all know; however, we have already made a number of clear, principled commitments on the design of the account. First, the obligation to ensure the tax is paid would lie with the account provider, not the person who opens the account. That is a game-changer in reducing complexity. Second, there would be an income-free threshold. Third, a person would pay one low flat rate of tax on anything above that threshold. Fourth, on Deputy Doherty's point, because this is not a scheme for the uber-wealthy, there will have to be a maximum amount that can be put into the account, either annually or over the lifetime period. Those are the four principles we have outlined.  The Deputy referred to the Central Bank. We are informed on this by the research of the Central Bank. The Central Bank carried out research called Retail Investor Participation in Ireland: Consumer Research and Analysis. It was published only last December. It examined and engaged with Irish households on how they save, invest and engage with financial markets. It shows that Irish households continue to rely heavily on traditional, low-risk saving habits, with 38% of all financial assets held in cash and bank deposits, a level significantly above the EU average. Direct investment in capital markets is very limited. Irish households hold just 2.3% of their financial assets in listed equities and debt securities. The EU average is 7.5%.  Irish retail investors also have a very distinct profile. They are more likely to be male and to be between the ages of 35 and 54, and are disproportionately drawn from higher-income, higher-educated ABC1 households. Some 73% are in employment and 65% hold higher education qualifications. Investors tend to be concentrated around the greater Dublin area. Therefore, there is not fair access today to investments. Lower-income people, people outside the Dublin area and women are all less likely to invest than men of a certain age living in a certain part of the country. These are some of the challenges and I look forward to grappling with them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  What about public consultation? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  We have had very significant public consultation. I reiterate today that if there is any group or body of groups, or set of individuals, with whom the Deputy would like further engagement, he should please let me know. I will provide him with a list of all the people who have been engaged with. I am also very happy to engage with the Opposition. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"State Savings Schemes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Central Bank of Ireland","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_4.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  Israel is still issuing war bonds across the EU and using the money to fund the genocide. While the role of approving these bonds has been moved to Luxembourg, Ireland remains the home member state for Israeli bonds. I am asking what steps the Minister is taking to ensure the Central Bank is acting in accordance with international law regarding its role as home member state for the Israeli bonds. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy O'Callaghan. As he will be aware, the Central Bank is the competent authority when it comes to the issuing of prospectus approval. It has informed me that it continues to keep under review its compliance with the applicable international legal and regulatory frameworks in relation to its mandates and engagements. Furthermore, the Central Bank, as the financial regulator, is independent in its functions from the Government, as is necessary in any well-functioning democracy.  The Governor of the Central Bank made the following clear in a reply to a letter from the Oireachtas finance committee on 24 November 2025:  The Central Bank is established by statute to fulfil legal responsibilities and obligations including in relation to the Prospectus Regulation. In carrying out these responsibilities we are at all times required to assess and understand the nature of our legal obligations and responsibilities. We do this on the basis of robust analysis relying on the legal expertise available to us. This takes the form of both internal legal and subject matter expertise and, where necessary and appropriate, of access to external legal advice.  We believe that further action \u2013 I believe the Deputy and I agree on this point \u2013 is necessary with respect to the EU's relationship with the State of Israel. This is why we are working with others to achieve co-ordinated action at EU level. Ireland will continue to call for and work for concrete EU action in response to the horrific Israeli breaches of human rights and democratic principles. This includes a call for a proposal to prohibit EU trade with Israeli settlements and to suspend the EU-Israel Association Agreement or, at a minimum, to suspend the trade elements of the agreement, as previously proposed by the President of the European Commission. It is expected that the European Commission will bring forward options at the Foreign Affairs Council on 13 July, including on EU trade with Israeli settlements.  The last time Deputy O'Callaghan raised this issue with me here, I think at the last Question Time, I undertook to engage directly with the EU Commission on this matter. I do not believe we disagree on the fundamental issue, but we can agree or disagree on how to resolve it. My very clear view is that this requires EU action in terms of the regulation. I directed my officials to engage with the EU Commission. Department officials subsequently liaised with their counterparts. We drew attention to the work of the Oireachtas, in particular the Oireachtas joint committee's recommendations that the prospectus regulation be amended. This engagement reflected my view that the Commission needs to act on those findings. I also undertook that I would raise the matter directly with the EU Commissioner. I spoke to Commissioner Albuquerque on this issue at the last ECOFIN meeting. I have also written to her as recently as the last couple of days, and I will give the Deputy a copy of that letter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I welcome any engagement the Minister has with the EU Commission on this but there are actions the Irish Government can take. It was very clear when the Central Bank officials were before the Oireachtas finance committee about a year ago that the bank was saying it would comply if there were any domestic law or instruction on this. Indeed, in the Minister's reply he spoke about the Central Bank following its legal obligations.  The key is that there are no national restrictive measures put in place by the Irish Government when it comes to this, and the Government could be doing that. Article 65.1(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union allows restrictions on grounds of public policy or public security. Clearly, there are public policy grounds here. The Irish Government has made its position clear in terms of recognising the State of Palestine, the submissions to the International Court of Justice and calling for EU action.  There is the ability for the Government to act and put legal restrictive measures in place on public policy grounds, and then the Central Bank would follow those. It is welcome that the Minister is engaging with the EU Commission, but who knows if anything concrete will ever actually come out of that? I am asking whether the Minister will take on board the measures called for by the Oireachtas joint committee for the Government to take action on restrictive grounds. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank the Deputy. I have been very clear in my view on this. Our clear advice is that even if domestic legislation were passed, it would not allow for the Central Bank to refuse a prospectus where the requirements of the EU prospectus regulation have been met, including the standards of completeness, consistency and comprehensibility. We have to respect EU law and the Central Bank has to abide by it. In my view, EU law needs to change in relation to this. That is why I agree with the Oireachtas joint committee finding. After I directed my officials to engage with the Commission, the Deputy asked me whether I would directly engage. I did. I spoke to the Commissioner in the past week or two. I have written to the Commissioner in the last few days, outlining the very clear view of this Oireachtas that the prospectus regulation needs to be amended.  I intend to continue to pursue this actively. I also hope this could be considered as part of the EU Commission's set of proposals, which it is due to bring to the next Foreign Affairs Council meeting. I will also send the Deputy a copy of the letter and keep him informed of any further engagement. My honest view on the matter is that domestic legislation cannot trump EU law in determining what the Central Bank can and cannot do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I support any engagement the Minister is having with the EU Commission on this. However, we have independent advice from the Office of Parliamentary Legal Advisers that Ireland could indeed take action to restrict Israeli bonds. It concludes that there is a case for unilateral Irish action on this if it is framed on public policy grounds. I have given the Minister the reasons it could be framed on such grounds, and I have also cited the relevant article of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.  The Minister has options on this beyond EU-level engagement. It would be great if something positive came out of that, but he knows well that it may not because achieving consensus at European level is very difficult. The Government has options to take domestic restrictive measures that would mean the Central Bank would then have a legal basis for taking restrictive measures regarding the Israeli war bonds. Will the Minister take these? It is imperative that the Government act owing to the ongoing killing of Palestinian people in Gaza, and also in the West Bank. Will the Minister do that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I agree with the Deputy's analysis of the atrocities happening in Palestine and that the actions of the Israeli Government are in breach of international law and despicable. There is a genocide happening in Palestine. The only area we disagree on, or are teasing through, concerns what is legally possible. I will look again at the independent legal advice of the Office of Parliamentary Legal Advisers but I do not want to mislead the Oireachtas. It is the clear view in the advice I have that we cannot do anything domestically to trump the EU regulation. I am certainly not suggesting the Deputy is endeavouring to do this, but we cannot be saying we are standing by international law and then passing legislation here that we know would actually breach our own legal obligations. We cannot progress legislation if it will not work.  I am a bit more optimistic on action being taken at EU level. It has been far too slow. It has been appallingly slow. Ireland has been advocating for action for such a long time on a cross-party basis. There are options that the European Council of Ministers can take that require qualified majority voting instead of consensus, but I agree with the Deputy on consensus being unlikely. There is an onus on the Commission to make proposals for the next Foreign Affairs Council, where there are measures that could be taken by qualified majority and not just consensus. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Central Bank of Ireland"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Fuel Prices","counts":{"speechCount":25,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_5.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I am trying to get to the bottom of what the Minister's intentions are for excise duty. Last week, he passed the Finance Bill in the House, and that Bill will see the price of diesel increased by 32 cent and the price of petrol increased by 27 cent. That is just a number of weeks away, on 1 August.  People are aghast at the idea that in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis prices would rise again. In some cases, prices will go up to \u20ac2 per litre, given where they are at the moment.  The Finance Bill is going through the D\u00e1il. It will go through the Seanad and then become law. Can the T\u00e1naiste rule out its taking effect on 1 August or is that still his thinking? People need a bit of clarity. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I welcome the opportunity to try to provide some clarity. For people at home who are watching in, let us be clear what the current Finance Bill is doing. It is giving primary legislative underpinning to the financial resolution; no more, no less. We in this House voted through a financial resolution to reduce the excise duty on diesel, petrol and green diesel. If there is a large gap between a financial resolution and the standard annual budget, you have to bring forward primary legislation to underpin that; no more, no less. The legislation we are bringing forward now is on a status quo basis providing an underpinning to something that this Oireachtas voted on many weeks ago. In that way, it is slightly peculiar that it has to happen, but it has to happen legally.  The total estimated cost of the support measures that the Government has introduced thus far is over \u20ac750 million. People know what that meant. It meant reducing petrol, diesel and marked gas oil, MGO, from an excise point of view. It also meant the deferral of the May carbon tax increase on home heating oil fuels and MGO, as well as a reduction in the National Oil Reserves Agency, NORA, levy. We have also had the diesel rebate scheme for licensed road haulage and passenger transport operators, the fuel income support scheme to assist farmers and farm contractors and the road transporter support scheme to help the road transport sector. The fuel allowance was extended by four weeks.  I acknowledge and welcome the current reopening of the Strait of Hormuz. We have seen positive responses on the commodity markets, in that there has been a reduction in oil prices. I accept they are still higher than they were. There does remain, let us be truthful, significant uncertainty over details of the agreement. We have been here previously. Let us hope for a positive situation. I am conscious that the situation is evolving.  Brent crude, the global benchmark for oil prices, as of 23 June stood at approximately $77 per barrel. This is down from a peak of approximately $115 in early May, but still above prices of around $70 per barrel recorded before the war. It is likely that there will continue to be disruption to supply chains and damage to energy infrastructure and it will, therefore, take some time for things to restore to pre-war levels.  We are continuing to monitor the situation closely and reserve the right to adjust our response. We have to get the balance right between solid budgetary management, which gives us an ability to respond in a timely manner, and making sure that people do not see some sort of immediate cliff-edge at the end of July. The Government will make a determination in the coming days. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I am well aware of the legislation, the 1920s Act which requires financial resolutions to be put into primary legislation within four months. The reality is that the Government last week voted against deferring the increase until budget day. As things currently stand in Irish tax law, diesel will go up by 32 cent and petrol will go up by 27 cent in August. The D\u00e1il is only sitting for another three weeks. There are people and businesses, including hauliers, that have to plan. They are wondering about the contracts and commitments into which they are entering. They are thinking that because the cost of diesel is going up, prices must go up. There are contractors, construction workers, who are taking on jobs and do not know what the price will be. Will the T\u00e1naiste rule out a 32-cent increase in the cost of diesel on 1 August? Is that his thinking at this point? Can he give some parameters? We know that things are fluid. We know that fuel prices are set by international energy prices, which themselves are reacting to geopolitical events. What I argued for initially was that there would be parameters there. For example, we could say that we would not want diesel to go above \u20ac1.80 or \u20ac1.85, or whatever. The law is saying that the cost will go up by 32 cent. That is worrying for people in the middle of this cost-of-living crisis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Let us not worry people unnecessarily. Let me be clear. There is legislation going through the Oireachtas now that is giving legislative underpinning to the reduction we put in place which is to end on 31 July. That has to happen. It is required legally. That is what it is doing; no more, no less.  There is another piece that it is important we say to people if we are concerned about them being worried, as the Deputy is. I am saying clearly that in the coming days, the Government will make a decision as to what happens post 31 July. It makes sense, and the Deputy can agree or disagree, to give it those coming days because the situation is fast evolving. It is, as the Deputy said, extraordinarily fluid. We need to monitor and make the best decisions. I will say, to be helpful, that I do not believe it is likely that there will be some sort of cliff-edge whereby everything will return to how it was before the packages. We have to think this through and see what is an appropriate and proportionate response beyond 31 July. The Government will make the decision in the coming days. As the Deputy said, this Oireachtas has approximately three weeks left and these decisions will be made in plenty of time to provide that clarity. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  First of all, that does not provide the clarity that is needed. This is not as simple as the T\u00e1naiste said, which was that this was putting the resolution into primary legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  It is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  It is not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  It is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  The Government voted against delaying this measure until budget day. It voted against not increasing costs on 1 August. That is what happened last week. The T\u00e1naiste was not here, was he? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy voted against cutting the excise, full stop. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Perhaps the T\u00e1naiste was not here. Let us be clear: that was what the vote was last week. Amendments were put down to defer this measure until budget day for consideration so that these increases would not happen when the D\u00e1il was on holidays. If the Government decides to increase the costs of petrol and diesel, even if it decides that they will only go up by 20 cent, we do not know what is going to happen the week prior to that and the D\u00e1il will not be sitting. The sensible thing to do was to accept what Sinn F\u00e9in put forward and not to have prices going up in the middle of the summer when the D\u00e1il is not even sitting. Defer it. I put that amendment down and the Government voted against it. The Labour Party and Social Democrats supported the Government in voting against it and I think that was absolutely wrong. I am now asking the T\u00e1naiste to commit that we will not see price increases in the middle of the summer, not knowing where the geopolitical issue will be, whether the Strait of Hormuz will be open or whether retail prices will be \u20ac1.80. \u20ac1.60 or \u20ac1.50. We will have no idea. Will the T\u00e1naiste give some clarity in that regard? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  The Deputy did not call for a vote on that amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  There was a vote on the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  On amendment No. 1, there was not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Sorry, Deputies, allow the T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I do not want to interrupt the united Opposition. To be clear, there is only one Deputy currently in the Chamber who voted against the financial resolution to cut the excise duty in the first place. His name is Deputy Pearse Doherty. Let the D\u00e1il record show that Deputies Cian O'Callaghan and Neville, the Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach and I all voted to reduce the excise duty but Deputy Doherty decided not to because he wanted to play party politics. He is now deciding that he wants to unilaterally run the Government from the Opposition benches. We are clear that we are going to take decisions. The Deputy has been doing a great job of riling everybody up, worrying them and trying to encourage protest again. He wants to get them all going again. Angry Pearse is not going to work any more. We are going to take a rounded, informed decision based on the evidence available to us as to what the most appropriate thing is. I do not know whether the Deputy is heading off for a long summer break but I am around if there is a need to respond to anything during the summer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Is the D\u00e1il going to sit? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy should not worry. The Government has----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Sorry, is the D\u00e1il sitting on 1 August? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Deputy, allow the T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Government has an ability to respond. The Deputy knows that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Perhaps the T\u00e1naiste will clarify. Is the D\u00e1il now going to sit? Is this the Government announcing that the D\u00e1il will be sitting on 1 August to respond? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Deputy Doherty, please. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Is that what the T\u00e1naiste is going to say? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  What I am announcing is that the days of the Deputy coming into this House and trying to shout people down and bully them are over. I am speaking and the Deputy stood up and interrupted me. The situation is very clear. Let the people at home who are worried about their bills know that there is plenty of time before this D\u00e1il goes into recess to make informed, evidence-based decisions. This Government acted to help people while the Deputy played party politics to rile people up. It has not worked. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 4 taken with Question No. 1. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Fuel Prices"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tax Code","counts":{"speechCount":25,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_6.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  The T\u00e1naiste has made it public that he plans to bring forward tax cuts in this year's budget after leaving workers worse off in last year's budget. That is according not only to Sinn F\u00e9in but also to the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI. In the election campaign, the Government parties promised to bring forward tax cuts every year and broke that promise to workers and families. The fact that workers were left worse off last year is why it is even more important that any tax package for workers is fair and works for all workers. Does the T\u00e1naiste accept we need a fair tax package? How does he see that being achieved? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank the Deputy for the question. The Programme for Government: Securing Ireland's Future contains specific undertakings with regard to personal income tax. It commits to implementing progressive changes in taxation if the economy remains strong, including indexing credits and bands to prevent an increase in the real burden of income tax while, in the event of an economic downturn or unexpected deterioration, there will be postponements to income tax credits or bands, as there were in budget 2021.  To ease the burden facing average and middle-income earners, over successive budgets the previous Government, of which I was a member, substantially increased the entry point to the higher rate of income tax for all earners by \u20ac8,700 or approximately 25%. The main credits have also increased by \u20ac350, or approximately 21%. In line with the Government policy of ensuring full-time workers on the minimum wage remain outside the charge to the top rates of universal social charge, USC, the ceiling of the 2% USC rate band was increased by \u20ac6,898, or 34%, from 2020 to 2025. Budgets 2024 and 2025 also cumulatively reduced the 4.5% rate of USC to 3%.  As the Deputy will be aware, Ireland has a progressive income tax system. It is estimated that in 2026 approximately one third of taxpayer units will be outside the income tax and USC net altogether and, therefore, due to the progressivity of our income tax system, account should be taken of this in any analysis or commentary.  A number of targeted measures were introduced in budget 2026, including mortgage interest tax relief, the rent tax credit and the 9% VAT rate on gas and electricity bills.  I published Ireland\u2019s medium-term plan last December with the Minister, Deputy Chambers. It sets out a binding path for net public spending for the lifetime of this Government.  In the coming weeks, the summer economic statement will be published, which will outline the parameters for budget 2027, including the size of the tax package. Following the summer economic statement, as part of the budget process, my Department will conduct distributional impact assessments to analyse the impact of budget measures on Irish households. We will use the ESRI's tax benefit microsimulation model, simulating welfare, income tax, childcare and health policies, SWITCH, to model proposed tax measures to ensure their fairness. However, it is our intention to have a personal income tax package in the budget. We will outline the size of the tax measures in the summer economic statement. I look forward to debating them on budget day. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  When Fine Gael has brought forward tax packages, they have always been two-tier tax packages, which means those on the higher end benefit more than those on the lower end. About half of the workforce benefits far more than the other half. A worker on \u20ac50,000 gets a tax cut multiple times larger than a worker on \u20ac40,000. I understand the challenges in adjusting tax bands and adjusting for inflation. It is not simple, but there are ways in which it is possible. For example, more focus on the USC and tax credits would make a far better impact for those on lower and middle incomes than simply dealing with the bands. Will the T\u00e1naiste ensure that the half of workers who earn \u20ac44,000 or less get a fair tax package compared with people who earn \u20ac50,000, \u20ac90,000 or \u20ac300,000? The packages the Government has brought forward have been unfair in the past, in that the half of the workforce that earns less than that level of \u20ac44,000----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  -----got far less than they should have. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I appreciate some of the Deputy's comments about the challenges that exist. We live in a country where one third of people pay no income tax or USC. When we talk about progressivity we have to acknowledge that fact. We can argue about whether it is a good or bad thing, but approximately one third do not pay any income tax or USC. That has to be factored into any comments on progressivity.  Second, the entry point to the higher rate of tax is still too low. I think it was \u20ac33,000 in 2015. It is now \u20ac44,000. It is still below the average. I look to colleagues in the Labour Party, including Deputy Nash. I have heard the comments of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, on this. It might suit Deputy Doherty to say \"Oh Fine Gael\", but it is ICTU that says the entry point to the higher rate of tax needs to be looked at. IBEC makes that point too. We need to make sure wage growth in the economy, and thank God we are seeing wages rise in the economy, does not get outstripped by the taxman taking all the benefit of it.  The detail of the package is entirely a matter for the Government to consider in the round. The Government has not decided it, but we should not dismiss - I am not sure the Deputy is doing so, in fairness - the threshold point. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I am not dismissing anything. What I am saying is that the Government has consistently brought forward tax packages that are two-tier. For example, the T\u00e1naiste talked about the entry point to the higher rate. If that is focused on instead of USC or tax credits, there will be winners and losers. The winners will be the half of the population who earn more than \u20ac44,000 and the losers will be those who earn less than \u20ac44,000. What is the better way?  When I talk to constituents who earn \u20ac60,000 and would benefit from an increase to the entry point to the higher band, they do not really care whether it is the entry point to the band, or USC or tax credits. All they care about and know is that they are paying too much tax for what they are getting back. They want more money in their pockets at the end of the week, better services and all that. The fairest way to do that is to make sure the Government does not spend a large portion of what is available for tax reductions just on the workers who earn more than \u20ac44,000. USC is the best way to make sure there is an impact for all people. We have said clearly in our policy----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  -----that the first \u20ac45,000 of income should be exempt from USC. That can be started in an emergency budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  It should be followed up in the October budget. These types of measures benefit all workers as opposed to a proposal that will benefit only some. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Another Thursday, another emergency budget. We cannot keep having calls for emergency budgets and mini-budgets every week. Come on. We just cannot. Will the Deputy please read the analysis from the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council and the Central Bank? To look for another budget every week----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I am not looking for another budget. I am looking for one. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy is doing it again. The budget will be in around 100 days' time. We need to get into an annual budget cycle. We should have a good, decent, robust debate about what the best composition of that is. I look forward to that very much, but we have to stop with this idea of an emergency budget. We have to run the country in a sustainable way.  We should not look at how we assist people purely through the tax system. When the Deputy talks about lower income people, he leaves out of the analysis the social welfare system we have in place, the significant safety net it provides and the many supports some lower income families receive, including the working family payment and the largest increase received. There are people today, who are not wealthy people, who got up at a ridiculous hour in the morning, sat in horrific commuter traffic and are looking for a bit of a break too. They are annoyed, as are their trade union representatives and employers, at the entry point to the higher rate of tax being too low.  We have not made any decisions in the round on this, but we should not be getting into divide and conquer. There is a legitimate policy debate about the threshold at which the higher rate of tax is paid. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Of course there is a legitimate policy debate. That is what we are having. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy is dismissing it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Now you are interrupting me. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Apologies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  That is the debate we are having. The reality is that some people win out more than others. That is also the reality. Let us not pretend that does not exist.  What I am saying is the best way to deal with it is through the USC. The people who earn \u20ac60,000 or \u20ac70,000 would benefit along with the people who earn \u20ac30,000 or \u20ac40,000, rather than if the Government overly focuses on the bands. I am not saying it should dismiss doing anything with the bands, but every time it has brought forward a package, it has been in that regard. That is why we need a fair budget.  I could stand here and remind the T\u00e1naiste of his campaigning. I campaign for an emergency budget, but not a different budget every day. People need a cost-of-living intervention right now. They cannot wait until 1 January for tax adjustments to happen. That is legitimate. Do not tell me what I can and cannot do. I represent people who are pushed to the pin of their collar because of the Government's decisions and broken promises. Does the T\u00e1naiste want me to remind him of them? One was that the Government would deliver a tax package every year for workers. It broke that promise. Remember the time the T\u00e1naiste and Fine Gael paraded around with placards saying, \"We will abolish the USC\". Remember the pictures of that. That is another broken promise. I could list all that out, but what this question is about is delivering a fair tax package for workers----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  -----to make sure the Government does not deliver the two-tier system it has previously------ "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  -----and to impress on the T\u00e1naiste that the USC and tax credits are the best way to deliver a fair package. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The good thing about this country is that we have elections. We had two recently and the Deputy went to Galway extensively - he was there a lot - and told people to send Fine Gael a message, back the Sinn F\u00e9in emergency budget and vote for the Sinn F\u00e9in candidate and Sinn F\u00e9in lost the election, badly. In Dublin Central, the Sinn F\u00e9in leader's constituency, it lost the election badly, because people do not believe in this sort of divisive politics, where only Sinn F\u00e9in represents hard-working people. Who the hell does Deputy Doherty think the rest of us represent? Who does he think Deputies Nash, Cian O'Callaghan, Ardagh, Neville and I represent? We were all elected to this place and we all represent people to the best of our abilities. The Deputy's angry man routine and dismissiveness of the bona fides of everyone else in this place is getting a bit tiresome at this stage. We are all doing our best.  We will deliver a budget this year that will have a personal income tax package. We took a series of other decisions last year. People will debate the merits and demerits of them. I am happy to debate them too. This year, there will be a personal income tax package. There will also be other ways of assisting people, through the social welfare system, the child poverty work around the working family payment and things like childcare. There are lots of steps we can take together. We have not made any decisions and I do not dismiss the idea of tax credits or USC or thresholds. I just do not accept the idea that the threshold idea is a bad one and I think the Deputy is open to considering that too. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tax Code"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Budget 2027","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_7.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  My question also relates to tax measures. I am conscious that one third of people luckily do not pay tax. We have been supportive of the most vulnerable in our society as well. Does the Department plan to review the current tax bands in the upcoming budget? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Neville for the question. The programme for Government contains commitments on personal income tax. We have been clear that if we saw a significant economic deterioration, we would not be able to proceed with personal income tax measures, but I am pleased to inform the House and the Deputy that we will be in a position this year to deliver a personal income tax package. It is more important, quite frankly, than it has been in a long time. The cost-of-living challenge cannot be dealt with solely through the social welfare system, though it is important.  We have had good engagement with the people who we used to call the social partners and the people we meet through the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF. There is widespread recognition that tax can play a helpful role in trying to assist people. We have made significant progress on income tax bands over the years. I think it was in 2015 that people paid the higher rate of tax at around \u20ac33,000. In most budgets over the course of the last Government, the threshold was increased and it is now \u20ac44,000. It is still below the OECD average.  That is a slightly crude figure because when you take into account our PRSI system it changes it a bit, but our entry point to the higher rate of tax is still too low. We will decide as a Government the tax package in the round. The next step will be the publication of the summer economic statement next month. That will outline roughly how much we intend to spend on public services and public expenditure and how much of a tax package we intend to do. There will be a real focus on a personal income tax package. The argument about entry points and thresholds is compelling. I am not saying it is the only thing to look at doing but it is compelling. There are a lot of people who feel if they get a promotion, work a few extra hours or get a pay rise - there is wage growth in the economy - the taxman is taking too much of that money back off them, which is not fair. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  I thank the T\u00e1naiste very much for his reply. We all know that luckily the country is going really well economically and we are all benefiting. Wages are increasing with that and therefore more people are getting captured at earlier tax levels than they could and should be. That is why I brought up the bands specifically. I am obviously very conscious of the increases in costs for every household. We need to ensure the bands, given the increase in wages, do not function like a stealth tax that means more people get captured before they should, and indeed end up with less money than they began with. I am a chartered accountant who worked on payroll and discussed salaries with many people, so I know the challenges people face. In my capacity I had a meeting with the Central Bank this week and IFAC last week, which brought home to me the requirement for the tax changes we might need to put in place in the coming budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Neville very much. To be helpful, we will see the tax strategy group papers published in the coming weeks and there will be the annual income tax paper from that group, which will set out information on the adjustment of income tax standard bands, including the estimated cost to the Exchequer. These publications are all based on the Revenue ready reckoner and are useful for all of us in this House to determine the different costs of different things. Based on Revenue's post-budget 2026 ready reckoner it was estimated that a \u20ac1,000 increase in the standard rate income tax band would cost about \u20ac230 million in the first year, so that gives an indication. Revenue will shortly publish its pre-budget 2027 ready reckoner. That, the tax strategy group papers and the summer economic statement will provide us all with an understanding of the space available for a tax package. We will then decide as a Government what the appropriate composition of that personal income tax package is and unveil it on 6 October. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for his reply. He gave extra detail about a \u20ac1,000 increase in the band costing \u20ac230 million. It gives us information about, to use a phrase that was used here previously, the fiscal space we have. That space is due to how the country has been well-managed economically by the T\u00e1naiste, this Government and previous governments. I am also conscious of what someone who previously sat in the T\u00e1naiste's seat said about supporting the people who get up early in the morning. That is something we really need to do too and increasing the bands would be of great benefit to those people. There are a lot of people who get up early, have their families and are busy. Obviously, people may be building a future for themselves outside their families. They are the people we really want to have the ability to support in the upcoming budget, through the Government's good governance. I look forward to that and to being in a position where we can do that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I agree with Deputy Neville. Sometimes, we have debates in this House on taxation measures versus spending measures but it is not an either-or situation. We can help people through the income tax system and we should, for all the reasons the Deputy outlined, and will do that. There are also other issues the public want to see us make progress on with respect to the structural costs they face in their lives, whether it is the cost of the energy bill, childcare, access to disability services or the cost of education. This budget will need to be viewed in the round and the people and the Opposition will view it that way. We should be trying to look at both the tax side and the spending side and seeing together how we can put in place real measures that help. As the Deputy says, they get called different things by different parties in different electoral cycles. Whether it is the squeezed middle or the people who get up early in the morning we are all know who we are trying to help; hard-working people who are doing their best and want to get ahead, not just get by. They need us to use all the levers on the spending side and the tax side to try to make those structural changes to the cost base they face. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Budget 2027"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Financial Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_9.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  There is a significant issue with the amount of criminal money laundering going through Europe. There is \u20ac647 billion in crime proceeds washed through Europe every year. We have \u20ac5 trillion in domiciled investment funds hosted in Ireland. The Garda has warned of an explosion in the recruitment of money mules. What is the Government doing to address dark money? I am aware of the action plan but there are significant gaps in it I wish to highlight, including on enforcement. What is Government doing to address that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I genuinely look forward to any discussion of how we do better and do more on this area, which is really important and of growing concern. It is important to note responsibility for various aspects of legislation and policy on combating money laundering, countering the financing of terrorism and the financing of weapons of mass destruction falls across a number of Departments, including mine as well the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, among others.  Notwithstanding this whole-of-government approach, my Department has a number of distinct but intersecting roles. It has a central co-ordination function through the national anti\u2013money laundering steering committee, which brings together relevant Departments, State agencies and the private sector self-regulatory bodies in the legal and accountancy professions. It also has responsibility for aspects of the relevant legislation, in particular the transposition of the sixth anti\u2013money laundering directive, in partnership with the Department of justice. My Department also co-ordinates Ireland\u2019s participation in the Financial Action Task Force which develops global standards for combating money laundering, the financing of terrorism and the financing of weapons of mass destruction. The Financial Action Task Force conducts periodic independent peer-based evaluations of countries to assess both their compliance with the task force\u2019s standards and the effectiveness of the measures a country has taken to combat money laundering, terrorism financing and proliferation financing. Ireland\u2019s next mutual evaluation will be in 2027 and 2028. In other words, we will be externally viewed starting next year to assess how we are getting on with this area.  Over the last two years, my Department has managed the preparation of Ireland\u2019s latest national risk assessment, which the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, and I jointly launched last week. The assessment is detailed. It includes 20 sectoral risk assessments, 12 of which are in the financial services sector, and in turn provides a basis to help inform our policy, regulatory and operational priorities. This is accompanied by a detailed action plan comprising 30 measures, which are being progressed across Government and other relevant stakeholders. Officials in my Department will lead delivery of 11 of these. These actions include progressing key measures such as strengthening frameworks on terrorism, enhancing sanctions, improving beneficial ownership transparency, etc. We have committed to reporting progress on these actions every six months to Cabinet and publicly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  As the T\u00e1naiste said, there are 30 actions in the action plan but none of them address the chronic under-resourcing of enforcement. This has been flagged for years and we have a situation where billions and billions are being funnelled through Ireland. The Garda has a backlog of tens of thousands of money laundering cases waiting to be examined. The financial intelligence unit and the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau are grossly under-resourced. It is fine to have the action plan and the aspirations but we have tens of thousands of unexamined cases. It is have been flagged that the area is chronically under-resourced but nowhere in the action plan does the Government commit to putting the resources into enforcement, so it does not add up to much. The resourcing of enforcement has to be looked at if the Government is going to take this area seriously. I have no reason to think it is not but if it does not put the resources into enforcement. then I can legitimately ask how serious it is about this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  It is a fair point. We have published an action plan with the 30 actions and the reporting structure every six months as well. We have to ensure that is adequately resourced. There are associated resource implications that arise from changes to Ireland's anti-money laundering and countering the financing of terrorism, AML-CFT, regime due to the sixth anti\u2013money laundering directive and also increased requirements from the Anti-Money Laundering Authority, AMLA. In recent Government discussions we highlighted some of these issues as well. Of course, these will have to form part of the annual Estimates process through engagement with the Department of public expenditure. In this context, law enforcement agencies, the Gambling Regulatory Authority of Ireland and the Companies Registration Office may also be in scope. We have literally just published the plan. There is a commitment to work across Government on it. Any additional resourcing can and will be considered in the context of the budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  The other key gap is the national risk assessment identified serious issues and significant risks with regard to crypto assets, yet the action plan only has two measures on such assets and misses a whole range of risks.  It misses, for example, any scrutiny of peel chains where criminals break large crypto amounts into small, tiny transfers to hide the trail. It misses any analysis of unhosted crypto wallets that are not tied to any regulated provider making transparency harder to trace, as well as any mention of the use of crypto to buy high-value goods, which is a common laundering method. It is fine to have the action plan and references to crypto but key crypto issues identified in the national risk assessment plan are missing from the action plan altogether. Why are they missing? Why are they not being addressed? Is the T\u00e1naiste not concerned about these things, which were seriously flagged in the national risk assessment? How come they are not reflected in the action plan? Why have them in the national risk assessment but not in the action plan? How did that happen and why? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  It is a fair point to which I will seek a decent answer for the Deputy. I will come back to him in writing on it. I am concerned about the issues relating to crypto and some of the issues the Deputy has highlighted. I will get specialist advice as to our level of satisfaction that the actions are robustly dealing with them, or not.  I am also concerned about other recent developments we have seen in this country, including the recent examination of developments that we saw around a recent by-election. I asked my officials to complete an analysis of the situation. There are discussions ongoing at an EU level to determine whether financial market regulation should apply to certain transactions. This is an area that we need to look at. There is no current evidence that any of this reported activity arose in this jurisdiction but the level of focus, with the greatest respect to the Dublin Central by-election, from forces outside our jurisdiction is a significant cause for concern.  This is a fast-evolving area in general. Our action plan is an honest effort to try to co-ordinate on it, but we also need to be humble in terms of any good or positive feedback that comes forward regarding areas we can look at further. I will engage with the Deputy in writing on crypto. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Financial Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Banking Sector","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_10.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  We have seen a number of media reports \u2013 I am sure the T\u00e1naiste has read them \u2013 about when the Government was approached with offers in relation to PTSB, and when that was communicated to the executive management of the bank. Will the T\u00e1naiste provide clarity to the D\u00e1il and clear this issue up? How many offers were made for PTSB prior to the launch of the formal sale process? Will the T\u00e1naiste outline the engagement with the executive management of PTSB regarding those offers, as well as the timeline? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Doherty for the question. The Department received a wide range of proposals in relation to the State\u2019s banking investments over the years, as the Deputy will be aware. As part of their normal functions, officials explore and assess such proposals.  On 5 September 2025, the Department received a non-binding and indicative proposal in writing from Centerbridge Partners to acquire the Minister's stake in PTSB. The Department was of the view that the indicative proposal undervalued the Minister\u2019s stake in PTSB and informed PTSB of its decision to reject the proposal. Following internal governance, the Department advised Centerbridge Partners that the proposal did not provide a basis for engagement. That was the offer. Indeed, it is the only one that I am aware of that took place in advance of the formal sale process.  Subsequently, the board of PTSB launched a formal sale process on 30 October 2025 which was, of course, public and open to all bona fide strategic and financial investors. It was conducted by PTSB in accordance with the Irish takeover rules. Centerbridge Partners was one of the parties in that formal sale process. The Department believes that the process was fair, transparent and offered the greatest opportunity to canvas broad interest from potential bidders. The formal sale process resulted in the board of PTSB recommending a cash offer from BAWAG to shareholders.  BAWAG has set out a long-term ownership approach, including maintaining a strong and resilient Irish banking franchise, investing in the business, retaining the headquarters in Dublin, a branch footprint and safeguarding existing employment rights and pension arrangements in line with applicable law. BAWAG has also indicated its intention to leverage its broader European expertise to strengthen the bank\u2019s competitiveness, including in areas such as SME banking, energy efficiency financing and operational integration. These stated intentions formed part of the overall assessment of the bid.  The State's investment in PTSB was made during the financial crisis to safeguard the stability of the banking system and protect depositors. Since then, PTSB has returned to profitability, increased its balance sheet scale and strengthened its capital ratios. A sale of the State\u2019s investment is consistent with the objectives of recovering taxpayer funds that were used to rescue the banks. Through a combination of fees, dividend income, the bank levy and disposal proceeds, the State has recovered around \u20ac4 billion from its investment in PTSB. On an overall basis, this means the State is around \u20ac1.3 billion above breakeven on its \u20ac29.4 billion investment in AIB, Bank of Ireland and PTSB from direct shareholding linked income and has recovered a further \u20ac1.8 billion from the banking sector since the introduction of the bank levy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Maybe the T\u00e1naiste will clarify that Centerbridge Partners only made one offer. I think he suggested it was on 5 September last year. The public and other shareholders of PTSB are looking at this sale and wondering why we are selling off a public asset on the cheap. When something looks like a bad deal, there is extra scrutiny on the process, and that scrutiny has led to journalists and shareholders looking back.  The CEO of PTSB, on an investor call last September, denied three times that there had been any approach, interest or conversations with potential buyers. He insisted three times that there had been no interest. It appears, however, that the T\u00e1naiste has confirmed there has been interest in the case. How is it possible that the CEO could not have been aware that the private equity firm Centerbridge Partners made offers, and that those offers were communicated to the bank? At what level was this communication from the Government to the bank? Has the Government resolved the issue of how the CEO was not informed of that, or that he informed investors this did not happen? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I am informed by my Department that there was one non-binding, indicative proposal received on 5 September 2025 from Centerbridge Partners to acquire the stake in PTSB. When the indicative proposal was received by the Department, it was assessed. The view was rightly taken that it did not adequately reflect the value of the State\u2019s shareholding in PTSB. The proposal was not pursued and, instead, the formal sale process was subsequently undertaken by PTSB in an open, competitive and transparent manner, which allowed a range of potential investors to participate, including Centerbridge Partners. That was the correct approach. It resulted in a recommendation from the board of PTSB in relation to the offer from BAWAG. That has satisfied the Government\u2019s ultimate objectives in this regard.  I am, of course, aware of media reports. Indeed, I have read them. I respectfully say that these are questions for the CEO of PTSB. I have found him to be an excellent CEO who has done an excellent job. From my Department\u2019s point of view, I am happy to account to the D\u00e1il in terms of the factual situation of that offer received on 5 September 2025. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  With respect, it is more than just an issue for the CEO of PTSB. We are the majority shareholder of the bank and the T\u00e1naiste is the person who holds the share on behalf of the Irish people. There is a genuine question here. Regardless of whether we believe that this has been sold on the cheap, it is a deal worth \u20ac1.6 billion. It is not a small amount of money. We have a situation where the State, as the largest shareholder, knew there had been an offer. The bank knew there had been an offer. There was an investor call in which investors asked whether there was interest or an offer. We are being told that the executive management of the bank knew about the offer but the CEO did not. That needs to be investigated.  As the largest shareholder, we also need to know whether staff of the Department of Finance listened in to that investor call in September or reviewed the transcripts when they were published. I have those transcripts in front of me. We need to know what action they took when they heard the CEO deny that there had been any interest. When he was asked whether there was any interest, communication or offer, the CEO, on three occasions, told investor after investor there was none. It appears that is not true. We need to get to the point of who knew what when. How could the CEO of a bank that is selling \u20ac1.6 billion of assets mislead, it appears, investors in that call? It appears the Government has not really done anything to follow up on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I truthfully do not know the answer as to whether officials in the Department of Finance were on that call or reviewed that transcript. I am happy to find that out for the Deputy. I truthfully do not know that. I also cannot account for why the CEO of the bank said that on an investor call. I genuinely believe that it made no material difference to the formal sale process and recovering taxpayers\u2019 money that was invested in PTSB. A full, transparent and open process was undertaken, which ultimately led to a board recommendation from PTSB. However, in the interest of transparency, if there is information that my Department can make available to the Deputy on the questions he asked, I am happy to do that and correspond with him in that regard. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Banking Sector"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tax Reliefs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_11.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Connolly  I observed the interaction earlier in the question session between the T\u00e1naiste and Deputy Doherty on this same issue. I very much welcome that the Government is going to bring clarity to this over coming days. It is as I expected because from the outset of the conflict in the Middle East, the Government said that we would observe the impact of the conflict on prices in Ireland and take the appropriate measures at the appropriate time. We have always said that we must be conscious that this conflict could prolong into the winter. As the uncertainty and volatility continues, this is prudent. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Connolly for his question and his comments, and that is the approach the Government is trying to take. None of this is easy for households or for businesses. War has caused havoc in the world and it has caused a shock to the global economy. Ireland, as a small open economy, is not immune from that. There is no government in the wide earthly world that can insulate its people, even if it wishes to, from the impact of that but what we have said from day one consistently across Government is that we will be nimble and agile in trying to respond to the issue and that we will always keep things under review.  I often get asked, and I can understand why, whether I will agree to this or that for a period of time and what I have always tried to say is that sometimes we have stop, take stock and decide what the appropriate action to take is. In the next couple of days the Government will decide what is now the appropriate thing to do.  We put a very large package of support in place. It is in place until 31 July. It is true that petrol and diesel prices are now lower than when we brought that in. As for whether they are lower by the 32 cent, they are not. As for whether we need to try to avoid a cliff edge, we do. As for whether we also need to be responsible for public money, the taxpayers' money, to give ourselves options for the budget, etc., we do too. This is a balance that we have to get right.  All the current legislation going through the D\u00e1il is simply giving legislative underpinning to decisions we took many weeks ago. We will then update that decision in terms of what excise looks like post-31 July. We will do that in the coming days. We will do it in plenty of time, before this House goes into recess. We will seek to avoid any sudden cliff edge for families and businesses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Connolly  I welcome that and I very much welcome the fact the T\u00e1naiste has forecast that we want to avoid a situation where there would be a cliff edge, where suddenly there would be a massive increase in price again, which would impact on households, in particular, and people who depend on their cars because, as we know, unfortunately, the transport system in many parts of the country is not at the capacity we would like to see and people are reliant on private transport. Obviously, the tax and excise changes on fuel have an impact.  I refer to the legislative work that would need to be done before the D\u00e1il rises on 16 July. We must ensure people are assured that throughout the period the D\u00e1il is in recess that we have made provision to ensure we avoid that cliff edge. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  It is a fair question. What I am saying is that it is not possible for somebody to absorb the full 32 cent. I get that point but I also have to balance that with the fact the Deputy, on behalf of his constituents, Deputy McCormack, on behalf of his, and all of us on behalf of ours, will be looking for things to be done in the budget too. I cannot ignore the fact that the price of oil is now falling and the fact the Strait of Hormuz is currently open. I cannot ignore the cost, in that on the way in today, I saw the cost of diesel is now below the cost of petrol. The situation is different factually to when we brought in the original package and we need to work our way through that in the coming days.  There is a number of different ways the Government can do that. It can decide to amend, at the appropriate point, the legislation going through the D\u00e1il. That might be the most efficient way should the Government decide it wishes to take action. The Government can decide to bring forward further financial resolutions and the likes, too. The cleanest way might be that before the legislation passes through both Houses of the Oireachtas, the Government makes a determination but that involves a whole-of-government conversation which I am currently engaged in with colleagues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Connolly  The final clarity I would seek is in terms of the figure the Department of Finance has put out consistently about the full cost of these measures as being \u20ac750 million. Are we making provision, given the fact there may be consequences and there may be a necessity to extend these measures? The T\u00e1naiste is talking about the prices having come down somewhat and maybe ameliorating the change but have we made provision? Are we contemplating what the full cost to the Exchequer might be if the necessity arises to continue these measures for an extended period, given the volatility that seems to exist in the conflict in the Middle East and the uncertainty it may continue to cause for some time? The T\u00e1naiste is correct. All TDs will be coming to his Department with demands for the budget but I want to make sure the Department is fully aware of what this potential cost might be in terms of budget provision. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  It is a fair question. Thankfully, as a country, we have had an ability to bring in a very significant package, one of the largest packages in the European Union, without having to borrow for it. Our nearest neighbour, the UK, brought in a much smaller package per head of population and had to go to the markets and borrow for it. I think it got charged approximately 5% for the luxury of that. The fiscal reserves we built up as a country - the surplus we are running in a growing economy - have enabled us to act but there is no consequence-free decision on expenditure either, as the Deputy and I both appreciate.  The current package has cost approximately \u20ac772 million. That is made up of \u20ac150 million for the original excise duties to the end of May; the \u20ac139 million when we decided to extend them to the end of July; \u20ac121 million from the further excise reductions we put on top of that; \u20ac22 million from the carbon tax deferral; \u20ac10 million for the diesel rebate; \u20ac40 million for the National Oil Reserves Agency, NORA, levy change; \u20ac70 million for the fuel allowance expansion; \u20ac120 million for the transport scheme; and \u20ac100 million for the agriculture scheme. That gets you to \u20ac772 million.  What we need to decide to do next needs careful consideration and a balanced approach to try to avoid that sudden cliff edge for people but also to try to be nimble and agile in our response. We will work through it all in the next few days. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tax Reliefs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tax Reliefs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_12.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  The hospitality VAT rate cut will be introduced from 1 July, next Wednesday. Of course, we all know that for every tax cut there is a consequent cost for the taxpayer. Can the T\u00e1naiste put on the record of the House his assessment of the full-year of this particular VAT cut? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  As the Deputy will be aware, the 9% VAT rate will be reintroduced for hairdressing services and for restaurant and catering services in the food-related hospitality sector from 1 July 2026. We have different views on this. I am very pleased that this is happening. The decision reflects the Government's commitment to supporting employment in sectors that are highly labour-intensive and form a key part of the domestic economy.  I am aware the Deputy and I have different views on it. In my view, it reflects a need that has been recognised in the programme for Government to support SMEs, especially those in the retail, tourism and hospitality sectors. The programme for Government notes the increased cost pressures on these sectors and states that the Government will bring forward measures that will entail changes to VAT.  The vast majority of businesses within this sector are small businesses. They are spread across the whole State. All of these businesses employ people whose jobs I and the Government are trying to protect and sustain in the time ahead and the most important thing at the moment in the global environment we live in is to protect and retain those jobs. The available Central Statistics Office, CSO, data for the food and catering and accommodation sectors indicate that over 99% are SMEs with over half of those businesses being microenterprises with less than ten employees.  The estimated full year cost for 2027 of the 9% VAT rate being applied to food and catering services is \u20ac633 million. The estimated cost of the hairdressing element is a further \u20ac48 million. The total full-year cost, to answer Deputy Nash's question, is estimated to be \u20ac681 million.  In making any decision in relation to VAT rates or other taxation measures, the Government must balance the costs of the measures against their impact. As outlined in last year's budget, the objective of the measure is to try to support businesses in services sectors, such as hospitality, who are facing increased cost pressures - they are even more increased now than at the time of the last budget. This measure is expected to support them and over 150,000 jobs they support and sustain across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  The T\u00e1naiste knows well and acknowledged that we have a difference of opinion on the best way in which we can support those jobs. I firmly believe, and I stand over the position, that this is not the best way to do that and is not the best way to allocate finite public resources in terms of supporting the subsectors of that sector that we are all concerned, that is, the small microenterprises that keep our towns and villages across the country going. In the Labour Party's view, the best way to do that is to target supports from the perspective of energy supports, training, staff retention and, indeed, a wholesale analysis and review of the commercial rates sector. We believe that is the best way to support those companies that we are all concerned about.  Of course, there is a consequence for every decision that we take. There was a limited amount of resources available for a tax package last year, and there will be this year and going forward. The impact of making this decision last year meant that there was no indexation of personal tax rates, bands and credits and the T\u00e1naiste has put on the record that is something he wants to address this year. That comes, of course, at a cost too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  While I vehemently disagree with the Deputy on this, and he vehemently disagrees with me on my position on it, I do not doubt his bona fides on it. Nobody, neither nor the Deputy, is suggesting that we have a monopoly on trying to support jobs. The Deputy wants to do it as do I. We all want to sustain employment. I accept that point but we have a difference of view on how to go about it.  I am very blunt and honest about this. I campaigned in an election and I stood in caf\u00e9s, restaurants and hairdressers and I told people that if they voted for me and put my party back in government, we would pursue this measure, as did my coalition colleagues. We are now pursuing the measure. That is important. There is a democratic link, I suppose, to the programme that we offered people in the general election and the composition of this Government as well.  There is a cost. There is a cost to everything the Government does. There is a cost to not doing things too. I cannot misrepresent the previous budget. In fairness, we did not know about the war in Iran at the time of the previous budget but the pressure on these businesses has got even higher since then. The certainty we can provide the caf\u00e9 owner, the restaurant owner and the hairdresser in our constituencies and communities that their VAT bill will, effectively, be permanently reduced from next week will, I genuinely believe, be a welcome relief to many of them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  Of course it will, and who would not want free money? However, that does not address the structural problems we have in the hospitality sector. We had a VAT rate cut of one form or another in place for the vast majority of the past 15 or 16 years. In fact, the Labour Party helped to introduce that back in 2011 to ensure we could generate some jobs in a sector that could quickly add them, and it absolutely did, as the evidence suggests. However, notwithstanding that there are subsets of the hospitality sector that are in difficulty, there is always churn in the sector more broadly. That is not me being callous about it; that is the reality of business. We cannot continue to permanently support the bottom line of every business. This is a place where we need to have hard conversations with businesses and workers about the finite resources we have. Is this the best way to use the resources we have?  We will have little change out of \u20ac2.5 billion between now and 2030 from this VAT cut. My only concern is whether this is the best use of public resources, given this is a sector that all the evidence suggests is, thankfully, adding jobs, not losing them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  The Deputy would not be doing his job if he was not scrutinising the decisions we make; that is his job. I believe it is a good use of taxpayers' money because the cost of this needs to be seen alongside the amount of income tax and other taxes these businesses and their employees are going to create. When I go back to my community and constituency and go into the local caf\u00e9, I know they will feel some sense of relief that some Bill is coming down the line. What annoyed me a lot about the 9% VAT rate in the recent period, though not nearly as much as it annoyed people in the hospitality sector, was this constant annual anxiety of whether the Government would roll it over for another year. At least, we are providing certainty now for a landscape. I believe this is the appropriate rate at which VAT should be levied in these sectors. There is much talk about the hospitality sector. Hairdressing probably does not get mentioned as much, but it is also an important cost base. There are lots of people working in these sectors, including part time, and there will be lots of young people getting summer jobs working in them as well. The hospitality sector, by which I do not mean hairdressers, is disproportionately represented in rural communities and the CSO data shows that those are overwhelmingly SMEs. The Deputy and I have a difference of view, although there may not be any differences between us about where we want to get to. That is my position. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tax Reliefs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Insurance Industry","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_13.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  The T\u00e1naiste and I will know that the cost of insurance for families and businesses is probably one the biggest costs every year, be it car insurance, home insurance or general business insurance. Can the T\u00e1naiste indicate when the Cabinet subgroup on insurance reform will next meet and will he make a statement on the matter? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I can indeed. I thank Deputy McCormack for his question. I see there are a lot of students in the Public Gallery. I am not sure what school they are from, but they are very welcome. They picked a lovely sunny day to come into the D\u00e1il. I thank them for being here and hope they enjoy their summer holidays, which are coming shortly.  As the Deputy will be aware, the programme for Government commits to maintaining the Cabinet committee subgroup on insurance reform to ensure insurance issues continue to receive strong attention, but also effective cross-government co-ordination. I chair that Cabinet subgroup, which meets on a regular basis to advance the action plan for insurance reform, but also to review progress made by each Minister in delivering his or her assigned actions. There is a responsibility on many Departments in this respect and the Cabinet committee provides us with an opportunity to bring people together.  The most recent meeting of the subgroup took place last month. Several priority actions have been set out in the action plan, which are focused on areas where the greatest impact on transparency, affordability and availability of insurance can be achieved. As part of this, a new motor insurance transparency code was launched on 2 March 2026. I thank my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, for his work on that. The code is designed to enhance trust, clarity, transparency and understanding. The idea is that people should get, with their premium, a piece of paper explaining the breakdown, composition and rationale behind it.  Legislation to safeguard access to mortgage protection insurance for cancer survivors is also progressing through the Oireachtas. The Bill has passed through all Stages of D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann and is making its way through Seanad \u00c9ireann. It is my intention, with the co-operation of everyone, that this be passed through the Oireachtas and signed into law this summer. This will be very important.  As the Deputy will be aware, this legislation builds on the voluntary code of practice that is currently in place and which was issued by Insurance Ireland in December 2023. The idea is that a cancer diagnosis should be disregarded, where the person has got through their cancer journey, for the purpose of mortgage protection. It sets out a reduction in the required remission period for cancer survivors from seven to five years, as well as an increase in the sum assured threshold from \u20ac500,000 to \u20ac650,000.  Work is also ongoing with the office to promote competition in the insurance market to enhance competition in the insurance market. We are also doing a lot of work on flood insurance and the flood insurance protection gap. The committee will meet again in formal session in September. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  I welcome the T\u00e1naiste's response and the work that has been undertaken on insurance reform in recent years. However, many businesses, sporting organisations, community groups and voluntary bodies continue to raise concerns with me and other TDs about the cost and availability of insurance. Will the T\u00e1naiste specifically outline the key priorities the Cabinet subgroup will consider in its next meeting? Will it examine whether the savings arising from the reforms already introduced are being passed on through lower premiums? What further measures are under consideration to improve affordability? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Deputy McCormack is right. We have introduced significant reform in this sector and we now need the industry to ensure the benefit of those reforms are passed onto the customer. We have seen some progress in some areas but, frankly, we have not seen enough. We are very carefully monitoring this in the Cabinet committee. We are often asked for a long list and told if we do A, B, C and D, the premiums will fall. However, as the Deputy rightly suggested, we need to show this is actually happening.  I am also conscious there needs to be greater transparency on this. The big priorities are seeing the motor insurance transparency code; passing the right to be forgotten Bill regarding cancer survivors; looking at the national claims information database regarding the cost of motor insurance and other trends; monitoring those trends in Ireland and internationally; making progress on the flood insurance gap; and, generally, driving delivery of our insurance reform agenda and the action plan for insurance reform out to 2029.  On foot of Deputy McCormack raising this issue, I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, to write to him with a comprehensive update on the delivery of that action plan. It might be of use to some of those organisations the Deputy mentioned. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  Small businesses are particularly vulnerable to increases in insurance costs. Unlike larger firms, they often have limited purchasing power and little capacity to absorb significant increases in premiums. For many, insurance is now one of their largest operating costs. Will the T\u00e1naiste outline whether the Cabinet subcommittee is considering any targeted measures to improve competition and affordability in the insurance market for small businesses, in particular the scope for additional reforms to ensure smaller enterprises benefit fully from the Government's insurance reform programme? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  This is a big area we are focusing on. I am conscious insurance costs are significant for all businesses, but they can have a disproportionate significance for smaller businesses, where a hike or an extra premium cost that was not expected could be the difference between viability or not. We have all met businesses in that place.  Attracting more competition into the market is very important and helpful, and we are actively seeing what can be done in that space. Obviously, those are commercial decisions but making sure we keep our environment correct so that it is good and transparent and, at the same time, competitive for people to come in is a key issue. We will continue to work very closely on the concerns of small businesses in this area. The Minister of State, Deputy Troy, will keep Deputy McCormack up to date. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Insurance Industry"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tax Exemptions","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_14.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Cahill  I raise again the issue of inheritance tax and the anomalies that exist for parents and their children, on one hand, and childless adults, their brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews, on the other. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Cahill for the question. This is an important issue on which I have had several meetings. Capital acquisitions tax, CAT, is a tax which applies to both gifts and inheritances, and is charged at a rate of 33%. For CAT purposes, the relationship between the person giving a gift or inheritance and the person who receives it determines the maximum amount, known as the group threshold, below which CAT does not arise. The group thresholds were most recently increased in budget 2025.  Deputy Cahill will remember the group A threshold increased to \u20ac400,000 from \u20ac335,000. This broadly applies to where the beneficiary is a child of the disponer. The group B threshold increased to \u20ac40,000 from \u20ac32,500. This threshold applies where the beneficiary is a brother, sister, niece, nephew or lineal ancestor or descendant of the disponer. The group C threshold increased to \u20ac20,000 from \u20ac16,250, with this threshold applying in all other cases.  Along with tax-free group thresholds, various reliefs and exemptions are available in relation to CAT, including agricultural relief, business relief, the small gift exemption, favourite niece or nephew relief and the dwelling house exemption. It is important from a tax policy perspective to maintain stability and certainty and to ensure that the CAT thresholds are appropriately set in the context of the range of reliefs available.  There is a significant associated cost with further changes to the group thresholds, whether it involves increasing thresholds or reforming the inheritance tax category system, for example, bringing those who are childless within the scope of the group A threshold. Department of Finance officials produced a tax strategy group paper last year which examined that as well. We will do this again as part of our tax strategy group papers this year, and publish information and costings.  I recognise the burden of this tax. I have had some good meetings with groups which are concerned about this. The Deputy should note that capital acquisitions tax group thresholds are kept under review annually through the finance Bill and annual budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Cahill  I have raised this issue on a number of occasions. It is a huge issue and there are anomalies. We need to address this. Currently, children inheriting a family home from their parents are exempted from inheritance tax up to \u20ac400,000, which, considering the price of homes currently, is undoubtedly far too low. However, a major anomaly exists when it comes to childless couples and individuals, who often decide to leave their home and assets to their nieces and nephews, brothers and sisters. Unlike children inheriting from parents, nieces, nephews, brothers and sisters are only entitled to \u20ac40,000 tax-free, leaving them with a significant tax bill which often precludes these individuals from affording the property. At a time when this country is in the midst of a housing crisis, should we not be doing everything possible to ensure that families are able to afford to keep their homes, instead of penalising those who do not have children and those who are left assets by their uncles and aunts? I call on the T\u00e1naiste, in his capacity as Minister for Finance, to reduce inheritance tax, which is charged at a flat rate of 33% of the value of assets exceeding specific relationship-based tax-free thresholds, and to significantly increase those thresholds, of \u20ac400,000 in the case of a son or daughter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I appreciate this is a serious issue which causes stress, strain and worry to many people. I have had much engagement with colleagues and groups about this and continue to do that. We keep all these issues under review as part of the finance Bill each year. The tax strategy group will again look at these issues this year. We will publish data, information and costings that can help to inform the debate in these Houses. The only thing I have to say, to be honest with people, is that some of these moves are quite expensive. We will have to decide as a collective, whatever the size of the total tax package in this budget is, which we will publish in the summer economic statement, how we divide that, with all of the competing demands regarding tax. I am aware of the burden that this places on people. There were significant increases in thresholds under the previous Government. I hope that we can make some progress on this over the course of this Government. Whether it is in this budget or other budgets is a matter for the Government to consider in the time ahead. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Cahill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Cahill.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Cahill  I believe we should separate the limit on the house from any other inheritance. The \u20ac40,000 cap in the case of a niece, nephew, brother or sister is absolutely ridiculous and discriminatory. In the upcoming budget, I propose that the Minister increase the \u20ac40,000 cap and we separate the house from the inheritance. The bands are less today than they were 15 or 16 years ago, as they were reduced during the recession. If the value of the house and any other assets is over \u20ac600,000, a son or daughter is liable for a \u20ac66,000 capital acquisition tax on the very same inheritance. A niece, nephew, brother or sister is liable for \u20ac184,8000. Our parents, grandparents and their parents before them worked extremely hard and paid their taxes to provide for their families and build family homes. The same applies to our uncles and aunts and their people before them. They too worked extremely hard and paid their taxes. I believe this issue needs to be addressed urgently. It is also a huge issue for the farming community and farm succession. It is a form of double taxation. I have a huge issue with it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  Deputy Cahill certainly gives that very clear impression. I know this is a serious issue and I hear from colleagues on the Government and Opposition benches about it. I share some of that concern too. In the specific role that I hold, I have to be honest about balancing the competing demands. We will have a certain amount available for tax measures and we will have many things that different people want to do. Inheritance tax is one that is coming up. Personal income tax is also coming up. We will have to look at all of this in the round.  The Deputy and I have both been in government in the past, so we have made progress on this issue, including in the previous D\u00e1il. This Government has four more budgets to deliver, so the next budget will be one of four. How we divide up the tax package and what we can or cannot do to reform CAT this year will have to be decided and informed by discussions we have about the priorities. I am not ruling anything out today. I know people who have concerns about this will also understand that it is a matter for 6 October, when we unveil the budget, from a tax and spending point of view. I will continue to engage with Deputy Cahill. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tax Exemptions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Universal Social Charge","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_15.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Callaghan  I ask the Minister his plans for the reduction or abolition of USC in budget 2027, in particular, if there is scope to reduce the USC that is payable on occupational pensions for people aged over 66. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  As I know Deputy Callaghan is aware, the programme for Government and our party manifesto commit to making progressive changes regarding income tax. The aim here is to make sure that people can keep some more of their own money. People in this country still feel that when they work hard, play by all the rules and then look at the slip at the end of the week or month and see the take-home pay figure, they are left struggling to get by, let alone get ahead. We want to make progress on that over the course of the next four budgets. There was not a personal income tax package in the previous budget. There will be one in this budget. I expect and hope there will be one in each of the next four budgets. Over the course of those four budgets, we can make real progress. In the previous D\u00e1il, to give an example, we managed to get from a situation where people were paying the higher rate of tax at \u20ac33,000 and brought that up to the higher rate of tax being paid at \u20ac44,000. We also made some progress on the USC in the previous D\u00e1il when we saw the middle rate of USC, of 4.5%, reduce by 1.5 percentage points to 3%.  About a third of people are not paying any income tax or USC, which we need to factor in too. When people talk about progressivity, we need to balance that. The USC is an individualised tax, which means that a person's liability for the tax is determined on the basis of his or her individual income or personal circumstances. It is therefore seen by some as a more sustainable charge than those it replaced, and it is applied at a lower rate on a wide base. The USC yield for last year was \u20ac5.6 billion. For this year, it is projected to be \u20ac5.9 billion, so there is a significant yield. What we decide to do on personal income tax, whether on income thresholds, tax credits or the USC, will be considered in the weeks ahead. The ultimate aim will be to see how we can most help people who are either working hard or the people who, as the Deputy recognised today, have worked hard with respect to their net income. We will consider all the options in the round. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Callaghan  I acknowledge all the work that has been done to date. I am sure the Minister hears from his constituents as regularly as I do that the fact that the USC was first introduced in 2011 as a temporary measure but is still with us 15 years later has made this particular tax a point of contention. I absolutely acknowledge the reality that there are many major investments into public services and infrastructure projects across the country that were only possible because of this tax, which, as the Minister mentioned, will bring in \u20ac5.9 billion this year.  The medium-term fiscal and structural plan, which the Minister published in December, is a strong statement of the Government's intent and ambition to achieve key social and economic targets. Of course, it is essential that under this plan, our public finances remain stable, resilient and ready, which goes to the Minister's point that there is a need to decide how exactly we make changes in the upcoming budget. While the USC will play a key role in delivering on this plan, I wonder, as we continue to experience a budget surplus, if there might be room to alleviate the pressure this tax places on certain sectors. For instance, would the Minister consider measures to increase the income disregard for USC or to reduce the amount payable on pension contributions at this time? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I have to give the annoying answer that we will consider all of these matters in the budget. I do not want to rule anything in or out today, other than to say a couple of things. The Deputy is right to acknowledge the burden that people feel from taxation. She is also right to acknowledge, very fairly, the benefit that we see from the taxes that people pay. The USC is expected to bring in \u20ac5.9 billion this year. It would be a very different challenge if we did not have that almost \u20ac6 billion. The next staging post as regards the total amount available for tax measures will be the summer economic statement in July. That will outline how much we intend to put aside for tax measures. We can then start to have an informed debate about the best way to spend that money and the best policy options. In general, regarding the surplus, I am pleased to live in a country where we have an economic surplus. It comes with challenges, but it much better to have a challenge than a deficit. I am conscious that some of that surplus is based on a temporary windfall tax and, therefore, a more appropriate use of it is to put it into our investment funds to deliver infrastructure and deal with future demographics. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Callaghan  It is really hard to argue with that point of view. Above all, I know that the Government is dedicated to delivering on the commitments made in the programme for Government, which will work towards a fairer, more equal Ireland. One of the key components of the programme is a commitment to progressive changes to personal income tax, which I am glad the Minister has recognised will happen, and to ensure that, as we push forward and grow our economy, nobody is left behind.  In budget 2026, the Government lived up to those commitments. It is important that we note that. It raised the 2% USC tax band up to \u20ac28,700. This measure meant and means that a full-time worker on minimum wage will not be pushed into the higher 3% tax rate. That allows for a meaningful increase in take-home pay. Across the country and in my own constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny, there is an appetite for similar measures to be considered in this year's upcoming budget. Is further indexation planned? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Callaghan for acknowledging that there will be a personal income tax package. The aim is that it will deliver in line with the programme for Government commitments around progressive changes. We will look at the various options in the round. We will decide them on 6 October and will have plenty of opportunities to engage directly and to engage through this structure in advance of that. The point the Deputy made about the minimum wage increases not being gobbled up for low-income workers by USC is important. That is a principle that we have had for the last number of years and is certainly one that I would hope we could continue. There is another issue and I will say this honestly. Around a third of people are not paying any income tax or USC. I do not say that in a judgmental way but sometimes the some of the low-income workers we want to help have to be helped in ways other than the income tax system too. I said this earlier, but I really believe it. While I firmly believe a personal income tax package can play a role in assisting people with the cost of living and we will have one, it will also need to be supplemented by what we can do on the spending side to reduce structural costs that families face in areas like childcare, an issue I know the Deputy is passionate about with the carers' allowance. We will see the carers' allowance income threshold increase next month as an example. We need to look at all of this in the round. I look forward to continued engagement in the time ahead. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell)  We only have a few minutes left, but I will let Deputy Murphy ask his question and the T\u00e1naiste reply. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Universal Social Charge"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Tax Code","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_16.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Eleven Irish billionaires now own more than wealth than two thirds of the population. Half of the population owns less than 10% of the total wealth. It is time for a wealth tax. A wealth tax on the richest 1% could raise \u20ac9 billion. At a time when so many people are suffering in one of the richest countries in the world, is it not time to introduce one? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank the Deputy. As he will be aware, wealth is already taxed in a number of ways in Ireland. These include capital gains tax, CGT, capital acquisitions tax, CAT and local property tax. Stamp duty also acts as a tax on wealth, including that charged on the acquisition of shares, stocks and marketable securities of Irish registered companies, and on the acquisition of property both residential and non-residential. The revenue raised from a wealth tax, regardless of the form it takes, may not be additional to that raised by the existing forms of wealth taxation, as the revenues from those taxes could be impacted by the introduction of a wealth tax.  In looking at the question of wealth taxes, the Commission on Taxation and Welfare's 2022 report identified challenges that would impede the implementation of a wealth tax. Its conclusion was that a new tax on net wealth should not be introduced without first attempting to substantially amend Ireland\u2019s existing taxes on capital and wealth. The commission argued that, as an alternative to introducing a new tax on wealth, CGT and CAT could be re-examined. These are existing taxes on wealth that have well-established but distinct bases and are well understood in their operation. A 2024 report by the Parliamentary Budget Office entitled \u201cAn Overview of Taxes on Wealth in Ireland\" noted, among other things, that a specific wealth tax risks an increased concentration of overall tax receipts on a relatively small proportion of taxpayers. It proposed base-broadening measures to increase the number of taxpayers and to diversify revenue sources.  It is important to note that Ireland has one of the most progressive taxation systems and social transfers of any EU or OECD country, which contributes to the redistribution of income and the reduction of income inequality. In 2016, my Department worked with the ESRI to conduct a research project into the distribution of wealth in Ireland and the potential implications of a wealth tax. Recognising the passage of time that has elapsed since this research project was undertaken, the ESRI is currently conducting analysis under its joint research programme. This will include scenario and distributional analysis under a range of wealth tax scenarios. A draft paper will be completed before the end of the year and I will consider the analysis in due course. I do not plan on introducing a wealth tax in budget 2027. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  We heard this week from Barnardos that, in Ireland, one of the richest countries in the world, 30% of parents say they do not have enough food to feed their children. A total of 44% of parents - almost one in two parents - said they have to cut back themselves so that their kids have enough to eat. That is at one side of the pole of Irish capitalism. On the other side is the 11 billionaires who are richer than 66% of the population. Eleven people are richer than two thirds of the population put together - 3.5 million people. That is up from nine billionaires in 2024. The richest two billionaires have more wealth than the bottom 50%. That is an Irish expression of a global trend, where billionaire wealth grew three times faster in 2025 than the average annual rate of the previous five years. We now have the world's first trillionaire, although, because of the share prices, he may not be a trillionaire at this moment, but it speaks to the massive inequality. A wealth tax, a tax on assets of the multimillionaires and billionaires in this country, is one way to begin to tackle this inequality and to put money back into people's pockets. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I thank Deputy Murphy for his contribution. I have already outlined the Commission on Taxation and Welfare's 2022 report and the issues that it suggested would impede the implementation of such a tax, as well as the Parliamentary Budget Office report from 2024. I have also outlined how we have one of the most progressive taxation systems and social transfer systems in the EU and the OECD and the research work being carried out by the ESRI. I have no doubt that this is an issue Deputy Murphy will return to again when we have a longer time to discuss it and engage. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Tax Code"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Policy","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_18.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  Last Thursday, the Oireachtas housing committee published an important report on homelessness. At the centre of that report is the call for the introduction of an emergency package of measures to prevent families and single people from becoming homeless, but also to get people out of emergency accommodation more quickly. Now that the Minister has had at least a week to consider the report, will he set out his initial response to its 14 recommendations? Will he let the House know whether it is his intention to bring forward an emergency response to finally get to grips with the ever-deepening homelessness crisis? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy James Browne)  Supporting individuals and families experiencing or at risk of experiencing homelessness is an absolute priority for me, my Department and Government. I welcome the committee's focus on this important area. Indeed, many of the recommendations put forward are addressed in our new housing plan, Delivering Homes, Building Communities, and are being progressed by my Department in collaboration with other Departments, local authorities and their service delivery partners.  The report calls for a greater focus on prevention. There are many prevention initiatives already under way in the Department and across government, including the provision of social and affordable housing, HAP and homeless HAP, and our strong tenancy protection legislation. I recognise that more needs to be done and a co-ordinated approach is required right across government. That is why a cross-departmental working group was established to drive the development of a prevention framework. The first draft of the framework is being considered by working group members and the framework will be in place this year.  The report also recognises the importance of a continued focus on measures to address youth homelessness and calls for the development of a child and family homelessness strategy. Again, work is well under way in these two important areas as committed to in the housing plan. I am establishing a standing sub-group of the national homeless action committee to ensure a continued focus on youth homelessness and my Department, in partnership with Department of the Taoiseach, will shortly publish a cross-departmental child and family homelessness action plan.  Many other actions are under way that speak to the recommendations in the report, including the development of the of the housing delivery action plans, a review of the housing assistance payment and the continued funding of the second-hand acquisition scheme, including tenant in situ acquisitions.  Ultimately, increased supply is key to addressing homelessness, meeting need and addressing the challenges in the housing market. The new housing plan aims to deliver 300,000 new homes in the period to 2030, including 72,000 social homes and 90,000 starter homes. This means 12,000 new social homes will be delivered on average each year to the end of 2030. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  It is simply not the case that the Minister\u2019s Department is already undertaking the key actions recommended in this report. If that were the case, we would not have wasted our time producing the report. Month on month, the number of adults, children, single people and pensioners falling into emergency accommodation is growing. That means the core recommendation of the report that we now need an emergency response seems to be ignored by the Government. There is an explicit call to fully reinstate the funding for social housing acquisitions, including for housing first and tenant in situ, and to remove the restrictions, something the Minister has set his face against, which is why the number of such acquisitions halved last year on the year before, resulting in many more people becoming homeless.  Crucially, the volume of social homes that is being delivered is not meeting the need. In fact, on the basis of the most recent summary of social housing needs assessments, it will take 55 years to clear current and emerging social housing need. People are waiting ten and sometimes 14 years plus. I would really encourage the Minister to put in place a plan because if he is to have any hope of ending long-term homelessness by 2030 there needs to be a plan with clear targets. That is not in place at the moment and that is why our committee has recommended the 14 points in last week\u2019s homelessness report. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  We take the report very seriously and are giving it very serious consideration. Many of the recommendations in it are already in place or are being put in place. We are treating this as an emergency. I have already outlined many of the measures we are taking to make sure we address the situation where we have a very high level of homelessness. One person in homelessness is one too many. We have a very high number in emergency accommodation - I acknowledge that. That is why we need to do even more. I am treating it as an emergency. We are putting in emergency measures to tackle homelessness. Ultimately, we have to drive supply; that is how we will address all the key issues for people who are finding themselves in emergency accommodation and State-supported living as a result of not being able to have somewhere to live. In terms of homelessness, we cannot deal with everybody as a single group. There are those who need more targeted measures. Those suffering from trauma, mental health or addiction issues need very particular supports and we are putting those in place as well. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  The report called for the Minister to extend the youth homelessness strategy out to 2030. My understanding is that despite the fact the strategy expired last year, there is no intention to extend it. Yes, the Minister is working on the child homelessness strategy but there is no sight of it. Will it be out this year? Is there a clear timeline? Can the Minister confirm that?  On the housing action delivery plans, it is still not clear whether that will specify not just the number of one, two and three beds but also, for example, very clear targets for every local authority for people with physical and intellectual disabilities as well as right-sizing requirements. More crucially, those plans will not be based on objective need because they will ignore about half of the gross social housing need in the functional areas of the local authorities. There is no talk from the Department about better co-ordinating and ensuring the Minister\u2019s counterparts in the Department of Health and the HSE provide the wraparound supports to sustain tenancies beyond where they currently are. Yes, the Minister or the Housing Agency is reviewing HAP limits but we have no idea where that is at. Of course, two key recommendations, namely, the need for at least consideration of the re-introduction of emergency ban on no-fault evictions and a referendum on the right to housing, are not on the Minister\u2019s agenda. Again I ask when will he introduce an emergency response, above and beyond what he is doing, to start seeing the homeless numbers fall? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  We are dealing with it as an emergency response. Last year, we saw a 20% increase in housing delivery overall and the highest number of social houses built in a single year in the history of the State. We are putting in record funding to address the housing crisis. Many of the measures highlighted in the report are already in the process of being implemented.  I would remind the Deputy that, in his own housing plan, he proposes winding down the tenant in situ scheme \u2013 something he conveniently forgets every time he raises that scheme. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Policy","counts":{"speechCount":9,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_19.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  We are in a wave of evictions the likes of which the country has not seen since the Famine. There is such human misery going on. I am contacted daily by people facing eviction. These are elderly people, young people and families. It is absolutely scandalous. It is the highest rate of evictions. Since Deputy Browne became Minister, 27,000 households have been issued an eviction notice. Last week, the T\u00e1naiste came in here and said the majority of tenants are covered by a no-fault eviction ban. Will the Minister correct the record and say the truth? The majority of tenants are not covered by a no-fault eviction ban. We need an emergency no-fault eviction ban to prevent this wave of human misery. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  The Deputy is very fond of referring to the Famine. The Famine was a genocide in this country. A million people died and a million people had to leave the country yet the Deputy makes a political football out of it and uses it to come in here to engage in cheap political point scoring. It is very hard to take him seriously when that is the level to which he descends in order to make a political point instead of making a coherent, informed policy point or argument.  We are putting in record funding to address the housing crisis in this country. That includes the homeless crisis and high rents. We have brought in some of the strongest, if not the strongest, tenancy measures to protect tenants in the history of the State and the Deputy voted against them. That is a fact. Tenants entering new tenancies will have the strongest tenancy rights in the history of this State. The majority of tenants will have a no-fault eviction ban. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  They will. They do not currently. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  There will be much stronger tenant protections as well. For those who are in tenancies at the moment, both tenant and landlord entered into an agreement under what was the law at the time. They understood the law on both sides and they entered into a contract on that basis. That is the reason we are not making those changes.  The Deputy tries to have it both ways when he comes in here. He criticises the changes that were made and then he criticises that they not being applied to the past. As I said, we have brought in the strongest tenancy protection measures in the history of the State. They do apply to new tenancies. While notices to quit did peak, we saw a drop in March and I have no doubt that the drop will continue significantly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  The Minister talks about me making a political football. It is an absolute disgrace. The reason I am pointing out that we have seen the highest rates of eviction since the Famine is because the Minister and this Government are completely out of touch with the human catastrophe going on right now. I do not believe that he does not see it in his own constituency. We know there was a case of evictions. I want to raise one particular case. May Kelly and her husband Michael were in touch with me. Michael is a double amputee - he had both legs amputated recently \u2013 and is a wheelchair user. He is facing eviction. They are an elderly couple who have been in their home for 20 years. They are appealing the decision from Wicklow County Council which is saying there is nothing it can do for them. They had an income assessment in 2025 which said they were over the threshold for social housing. He is now retired. They are in absolute terror. Their notice to quit says they have to be out of their home by 10 December. Will the Minister look into this specific case and implement a ban immediately to ensure that no elderly couples are being evicted from their homes when they are in situations like this? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I am not going to speak to an individual case but I am happy to look into the details of the case if the Deputy wants to provide me with them.  We had an eviction ban in this country before and supply just dropped off a cliff. An eviction ban sounds very favourable to those who are currently renting but it creates a cliff edge. What is the Deputy going to do in two or three years\u2019 time when he brings an end to his eviction ban? Supply will only go down in the meantime, as we have seen that in the past. Who will invest in delivering houses in this country when they know there are eviction bans in place? Nobody. The evidence is there that it is not going to happen.  As Minister for housing, I have to look at everything in terms of how I maximise supply. When I am looking at delivering housing it is to help those people who are renting but also to ensure that we have the supply for those people who are living at home who need somewhere to rent so that they can get out of their homes and have somewhere.  We have a shortage of homes in this country. That is what is driving the housing crisis, the homelessness crisis and the high rents in this country. When we get higher supply, those issues will be addressed but you cannot address them without it. That is certain. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  Is it an emergency or is it not an emergency? It is not actually true that it is just about supply. These people are in homes. If the Minister put in place a ban on evictions, they could be kept in their homes until supply reaches the point where, if they are evicted, they will not be evicted into homelessness. Where are they going to be able to afford to rent? These are elderly people and other people in my constituency. Mothers with two children are contacting me in terror of being evicted and of not knowing where they are going to go. Couple after couple and family after family are in touch with me and I know they are in touch with politicians across this country. I cannot get my head around not just the Minister but the Taoiseach and the T\u00e1naiste referring to people as \"churn\", and saying churn goes on. People are just evicted, and they will find somewhere else. These are real human lives. People are suffering and are being traumatised and, yes, it is about prioritising these people right now over corporate landlords who are saying they do not want an eviction ban. This is a human catastrophe, and the Minister is ignoring it at massive human cost. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  Nobody is ignoring it. We are putting record funding into solving the housing crisis. Almost one third of all the capital being spent by the State is going to be spent on solving the housing crisis. It is reflected in the decisions we are making. We are treating this as an emergency and putting those measures in place. Instead of constantly coming in here using emotive language and pretending he has a monopoly on compassion, the Deputy should focus on policy solutions. It would serve everybody better to solve the housing crisis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  His policies are not serving these people. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Provision","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_20.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  As the Minister knows, a growing number of working people, as a result of very modest increases in their wages, are being removed from local authority social housing waiting lists when their means assessment comes under review. I know the Minister is looking at this matter and his party colleagues and backbenchers from Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael are raising it with him regularly. Will he give us an update on the review of social housing income limits and some indication as to whether it is his intention to act on it this year? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I thank the Deputy for this question about income eligibility thresholds for social housing support. Applications for social housing support are assessed by the relevant local authority in accordance with the eligibility and needs criteria set down in section 20 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 and the associated Social Housing Assessment Regulations 2011, as amended. The 2011 regulations prescribe maximum net income limits for each local authority in different bands according to the area concerned, with income being defined and assessed according to a standard household means policy. The baseline income thresholds are \u20ac40,000, \u20ac35,000 and \u20ac30,000 for bands 1, 2 and 3, respectively. These thresholds are net income, which is gross household income less income tax, PRSI, universal social charge and additional superannuation contribution. Income is defined and assessed according to a standard household means policy, HMP. The policy provides for a range of income disregards and local authorities have discretion to disregard income that is once-off, temporary or short-term in nature, and which is outside the regular pattern of a person's annual income. The income bands are expressed in terms of a maximum net income threshold for a single-person household, with an allowance of 5% for each additional adult household member, subject to a maximum allowance under this category of 10%, and separately a 2.5% allowance for each child.  My Department has been examining the existing income limits in the context of current market and household income conditions, including the suitability or otherwise of the current framework, having regard to the significantly changed landscape since the standardised income limits were introduced. This includes examining the findings of research commissioned by my Department and this work is ongoing. I envisage that the analysis will be concluded shortly to facilitate a final determination on next steps. I am also keen to put in place a more structured and frequent process for the review of these limits going forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  There really is an urgency to progress and conclude the work of the Department. I strongly recommend in the first instance that there is an immediate increase in the income eligibility thresholds. I am strongly of the view, and I know the Minister is considering this, that beyond an immediate increase there needs to be a more rational system of linking those thresholds to an index, whether that is net household income or some other independent index, so the thresholds track that in real time. There is a need to look at the disregards, and whether carers' allowance, disability allowance and certain other payments should continue to be assessed is a matter of some concern. There is also the issue of secondary earners. We increasingly have a case where adults are being forced to live at home because of the housing crisis. That is having significant impacts on eligibility. I also urge the Minister to look again at the three month look-back income assessment. It is far too rigid. When there are significant changes in circumstance you are not seeing those being taken account. Significant one-off payments can be but not changes of income circumstance or of employment and that is creating real difficulties. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I agree with the Deputy. The situation for a long time has been that as social welfare or other family support payments increase, average household incomes increase, and the Department of housing rightly faces calls to increase the limits. We go through this process and there is the opposite of a cliff edge where the numbers all go up. I want to not only increase the limits but bring an end to that kind of process, so people and local authorities have a better understanding of where we are going rather than the process there to date, which is not satisfactory for anybody. My intention is to have this in the near future. I am finalising the proposals for it in order that we can get the limits increased and put a procedure in place, so it is not this constant position where we are depending on the Minister and the ability of the Department and of the workload to see whether or not increases will happen. It is not an appropriate way to deal with it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  I again stress the urgency of this. The longer this takes the more families will lose their position on the list. I am dealing with a family in my constituency. Both are working and have had a modest increase in their income. They are currently homeless and in emergency accommodation through no fault of their own. They were recently given an offer of council accommodation but in the income reassessment, they were marginally above the threshold. We have had it reviewed, and the local authority has acted completely in compliance with the eligibility threshold. Those people are not only going to lose their more than ten years on the list but they now have no exit out of emergency accommodation because they simply cannot afford private rents from their own income. I am sure when the Minister talks to his own backbenchers he will hear that these real live cases are happening everywhere.  There are three other issues I would ask the Minister to consider. The first is to completely get rid of band 3. There is simply no reason to have a third band. It is an out of date concept. There is an argument in the larger urban areas and their commuter belts to have a higher rate than a second band but I do not believe a third band is needed. I also urge the Minister to publish the research as soon as he can and, if possible, to engage with our committee, to not delay anything and to get the experience of committee members on the ground before he makes his final decision. Crucially, that decision needs to be made as soon as possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I think we are very much in agreement on the general direction of where we need to go in relation to social housing threshold limits. The way I look at this is that there is a spectrum. Everybody needs to be able to get a home in their local community based on their needs. Whether that is purely private or with supports, affordable purchase, cost rental or social housing, it is about ensuring on that spectrum that people have not only an entitlement but availability so they can benefit and get a home in their local community. That will be to the front of my mind in the coming weeks, and I look forward to hearing the views of the Oireachtas committee when we publish these changes. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Provision"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Derelict Sites","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_21.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  I ask the Minister about the steps he and his Department will take to tackle dereliction in advance of the new derelict property tax and how he is going to mandate local authorities to collect the millions in outstanding derelict site levies in advance of that, and when the Government will introduce the new compulsory purchase order Bill. Will he examine the concept of compulsory sale orders to bring vacant and neglected homes back into use? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy John Cummins)  I thank the Deputy for the question. The Government's housing plan, Delivering Homes, Building Communities, aims to ensure that the activities and resources used to address vacancy and dereliction are co-ordinated and effective, and that legislative powers are used proactively to tackle dereliction and vacancy. The derelict property tax announced in budget 2026 is intended to introduce legislation providing for the tax in the Finance Act 2026. When it comes into effect, the tax will replace the derelict sites levy and will be collected by the Revenue Commissioners. Derelict site levies that remain outstanding when the new tax is introduced will remain as charges on the property and will be the responsibility of each local authority to collect.  In the context of the measures we have introduced to tackle the scourge of vacancy and dereliction, the vacant property refurbishment grant provides up to \u20ac70,000 for the refurbishment of vacant and derelict properties for occupation as a principal private residence or for rental. The vacant property refurbishment grant has been expanded as of 1 April this year to include a new \u201cabove the shop\u201d grant introduced to support property owners to bring these vacant upper floors over commercial units into use as homes. This provides unprecedented support of up to \u20ac135,000.  The CPO activation programme requires a proactive and systematic approach by local authorities to identifying vacant and derelict properties and engaging with owners to bring these properties back into use. This includes using their compulsory purchase powers under the Derelict Sites Act 1990 and the Housing Act 1966 when engagement with the owners of these properties is not successful. All 31 local authorities have full-time vacant homes officers and there is a range of schemes in place. The concept of a compulsory sale order has been examined by my Department and the Housing Agency. I will elaborate further in my follow-up response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  I thank the Minister of State for his response. There is \u20ac20.5 million in levies outstanding for derelict sites. I want to press the Government on what new measures there are and what it is going to do to make sure that local authorities collect that money, notwithstanding the new derelict property tax. I will also ask about the compulsory purchase order Bill. The Law Reform Commission gave very clear recommendations in 2023. When are we going to see that Bill?  Will the Minister of State confirm on the record that the derelict property tax will not be littered with exemptions? We have had cases before where measures like the derelict property tax were introduced, but they sound a lot better than they actually are because when they are finally introduced, they are littered with exemptions for this, that and the other. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Cummins  As the Deputy knows, all local authorities in the country are independently operated. It is their responsibility, and their responsibility alone, to ensure they collect outstanding levies, particularly the derelict sites levies. They are charges on properties, so it often takes time for a property to be disposed of and for the levy to come in. However, it is absolutely their responsibility. We are committed to ensuring that we have the derelict property tax, which will be collected by Revenue, in place as early as possible.  Regarding the compulsory sale order, which the Deputy referenced in his initial contribution, the Department, in conjunction with the Housing Agency, has examined this matter in other jurisdictions. On the basis of that evaluation, it is not intended to progress that measure. The focus will remain on the derelict property tax and the use of CPO powers as the stick for individuals and property owners who have not availed of the many measures put in place by the Government. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  The reason I raised the issue of compulsory sale orders is that this is something the Scottish Government had in a 2018 land reform report, although it has not been implemented yet. I am raising it not so much with the idea that the compulsory sale order would be punitive, but for it to be another framework by which engagement can be sought with the owners of problematic sites.  I have two follow-up questions. What is the rationale for the derelict property tax to be applied to towns with a population of over 4,000, given that we have significant issues with rural dereliction? When will we see the compulsory purchase order Bill? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Cummins  I am glad the Deputy mentioned Scotland because it is referenced in the report that has been done. As the Deputy knows, it has not been introduced in that jurisdiction. It is very difficult to get data on the effectiveness of this, although it has been examined.  Where local authorities are using the Derelict Sites Act to put derelict properties on the register, they have been successful in using their CPO powers. Other local authorities that have not been proactive in this space or have not put notices on properties seem to use the excuse, in my view, that there is an issue with CPO in this country. If that were the case, Limerick would not be able to CPO the number of properties that it has, nor my local authority or some of the other good, notable examples around the country. Where it is working, it is working well. Where it is not working, I do not think it is as a result of deficiencies, but as a result of a lack of focus and co-ordinated effort by some local authorities in this space. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Derelict Sites"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Water Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_22.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  There is a request, which I have no problem with, that local authorities in the wider Dublin catchment area zone land for a large increase in the population and the number of dwellings. That needs infrastructure. However, given the tight budgets that local authorities operate with, will funding be provided, particularly through Irish Water, for the infrastructure required for wastewater and water supply? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I appreciate the Deputy\u2019s question on water supply, wastewater systems and Uisce \u00c9ireann. Both our water and wastewater systems require substantial and sustained investment over a number of investment cycles to bring them up to the standard and quality required of a modern service to provide people with the necessary supports, ensure growth and build resilience in the face of climate change.  My Department is delivering a sustainable funding path to further enhance the ongoing significant improvements in our public water and wastewater services. Since its inception, Uisce \u00c9ireann has ramped up capital delivery capability for water services and infrastructure from a mere \u20ac300 million in 2014 to \u20ac1.4 billion as part of budget 2026. Under the national development plan, the Government is supporting Uisce \u00c9ireann with a record allocation of \u20ac11.7 billion in funding out to 2030. This funding will support the delivery of the wide range of projects in our cities, towns and regions required for housing delivery, safeguarding public health and the environment and, crucially, providing the capacity required to address the housing crisis in this country. This investment will deliver significant improvements in our public water and wastewater services and support improved water supplies right across Ireland, as well as a range of programmes delivering improved water quality in our rivers, lakes and marine areas, thereby making a significant contribution to addressing Ireland's needs.  Uisce \u00c9ireann has statutory responsibility for all aspects of water services planning, delivery and operation at national, regional and local levels. Therefore, the scope prioritisation and progression of individual projects are matters for Uisce \u00c9ireann, and are approved through its own internal governance structures. As Minister, I have no function in such matters. Uisce \u00c9ireann has established a dedicated team to deal with representations and queries from public representatives. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  Where does the responsibility lie? It needs to be clearer. There was a policy decision by the Department to zone these extra lands. In the case of Laois, as the Minister knows, substantial extra lands have been zoned in the last two weeks for an increase of over 8,000 houses, which will bring an increase of approximately 25% in the population in four or five years.  They cannot all be in Portlaoise. I understand, and I support it to solve the housing crisis, that we need to strengthen villages and smaller towns to provide an option for people to live in a village structure where they are close to pubs, shops, community centres and schools. This means upgrading the water system. Uisce \u00c9ireann earmarked four villages in Laois for its small villages and towns scheme. One has been done in Ballyroan and I welcome this but those in Borris-in-Ossory, Ballinakill and Ballybrittas have not. They were all earmarked by Uisce \u00c9ireann. Somebody needs to intervene to tell Uisce \u00c9ireann that these need to be upgraded. In the case of Borris-in-Ossory, 160 extra houses are planned for extra land. There are 56 planned for Ballinakill and 437 for Graiguecullen. These cannot be provided without the infrastructure. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  Deputy Stanley makes an important point. We are asking local authorities to rezone a significant amount of land to deliver additional housing. I encourage local authorities to complete this process. I am not happy with the time that many local authorities are taking in what is a housing crisis. I do not believe many local authorities have been treating it as such with the delays in delivering additional zoned land, which is essential to deliver homes and solve the housing crisis in this country so the houses can get built.  In relation to villages, we have introduced developer-led infrastructure to allow developers to be able to provide wastewater facilities in our villages, which is absolutely crucial. Deputy Stanley rightly points out using over the shop units. Using existing services and regeneration in our towns are also crucial.  With regard to Borris-in-Ossory, as Deputy Stanley is aware, Uisce \u00c9ireann commenced works to upgrade the Borris-in-Ossory wastewater treatment plant to support future growth and development, with works beginning in March 2026. This is a \u20ac4.1 million investment that will benefit homes. The works are expected to be completed in autumn 2027. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  I appreciate what the Minister has said about the ones being provided by developers. The T\u00e1naiste in reply to me said a lot will be provided by developers. It is okay if this can be done but the Minister and I know that Uisce \u00c9ireann is reluctant to take in charge infrastructure provided by developers. I can show the Minister an example in Laois which has been held up because of this. There has been a lot of back-and-forth with Uisce \u00c9ireann, local authorities and the Department on this. As far as I am aware, according to the most recent information I have, that nut has not been cracked yet.  The cases of Graiguecullen, Borris-in-Ossory, where I welcome the progress, and Ballinakill are all in the red. They have been labelled as red by Uisce \u00c9ireann in terms of wastewater; in other words, no development can take place. The lands and the extra houses in each of these areas that I mentioned are in addition to what is already under construction or what is already zoned. We need to strengthen our villages and towns. We cannot put everybody in Portlaoise. The Minister and Minister of State who visited Laois know what is happening with private, public and local authority housebuilding. They saw the figures for zoning in the plan two weeks ago. Laois is not behind the curve but we need input from the Government and Uisce \u00c9ireann. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  In terms of developer-led infrastructure, in any new process it will always be about who is going to be the first mover. When the first couple are delivered, others will see the pathway and move an awful lot more quickly. What we have said to Uisce \u00c9ireann, and it is doing this, is to work with local authorities and developers to try to get those first movers across the line as quickly as possible. This will then give confidence to other developers to follow suit. To be clear, these are not pilots - they are first movers. Any developer can move forward to provide these in local villages at the moment. That is happening with Uisce \u00c9ireann engaging with local authorities and developers. I am confident a number of these will come through. They have the support of the EPA. Deputy Stanley is right there is a reluctance in Uisce \u00c9ireann to take over legacy wastewater projects around the country, often because of the cost involved or legacy issues. These developer-led infrastructure projects have been worked out very carefully with the EPA and Uisce \u00c9ireann, which is why I believe there will be success and hand-holding at present to get the first few across the line. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Water Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_23","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_23.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maeve O'Connell  I would like an update on the review of the 2001 planning guidelines for local authorities on early learning and childcare settings. It is 25 years since they were set out and a lot has changed in our society, in our childcare needs and in best practice for childcare. Will the Minister of State provide an update on the review of these guidelines? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Cummins  I thank Deputy O'Connell and I also thank Deputy Currie for her work on this. The programme for Government sets out a number of priorities for Government on access to early learning and childcare services, including a commitment to review the 2001 childcare facilities guidelines for planning authorities to ensure childcare spaces are provided and put to use.  Further to the commencement of Part 3 of the Planning and Development Act 2024 in October 2025, provisions for national planning statements have been introduced to replace the provisions for ministerial guidelines issued under section 28 of the Planning and Development Act 2000. The timing of the issuing of national planning statements is based on Government priorities.  The current childcare facilities guidelines for planning authorities, which remain in place until revoked or replaced by a new national planning statement, set out the methodology for calculating an adequate provision of childcare places and ensure consistency in the approach to the consideration of land use planning and development management aspects of childcare provision. These guidelines set out a guideline standard of one childcare facility providing for a minimum 20 childcare places per approximately 75 dwellings, as appropriate to the particular circumstances of each development. Consideration of childcare facilities provision should be raised as early as possible in preplanning discussions for larger housing developments.  National policy objective 41 of the revised national planning framework 2025 also supports the strategic planning and alignment of planned population and employment growth with educational investment, and prioritises the timely delivery of childcare facilities and schools on well-located sites, within or close to existing built-up areas, to support the development of sustainable communities. I know this is an area of utmost importance and we are working with other Departments on a review of it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maeve O'Connell  As the Minister of State may be aware, and no doubt he is, the cost and availability of childcare are two of the biggest issues in our society. It is certainly an issue in Deputy Currie's constituency and it is very much an issue in my constituency of Dublin Rathdown as well. We have lost 64 providers out of core funding and, in Dundrum, the wonderful provider Once Upon A Time has also withdrawn from core funding. This is causing increased pressure on the system and highlights the challenges in the system. These guidelines date back over 25 years. We need to update them and bring them in line with the needs and demands of our local communities. Children have grown, gone to college, graduated and are having children of their own but the same guidelines are still in place. They are no longer fit for purpose and we urgently need them revised. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Cummins  I accept the points made by Deputy O'Connell. It is not just a matter of affordability but also of availability. As a new father who has started sending a child to cr\u00e8che in recent weeks I certainly know this. I acknowledge that the guidelines that have been in place since 2001 were a legacy of that time, when provision was attached to development. It is a cost on development. We do need to move, as I outlined, under national policy objective 41 to where it is more planned. This would be in line with what we do for educational facilities whereby where we have an existing community in a built-up area or a new community that will be developing, we would plan at development plan stage for adequate provision in terms of site-specific locations for childcare facilities of scale and not smaller piecemeal facilities that are often unviable for providers to take on board. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maeve O'Connell  I am glad to hear about the nature of the viability of facilities because, unfortunately, one of the issues that is occurring is that as developments are put in place they provide facilities for childcare but it is often an empty shell. It is not necessarily fit for purpose for that particular community. We also have the issue, particularly in already dense urban areas where apartment developments are going in, of increasing the level of the local population when we do not have the childcare spaces to meet the demand of the existing population.  In growing urban areas, in particular, having 20 childcare places per 75 homes is something we need to look at urgently. We certainly need to look at it in the short term and, in the long term, we need to build some type of flexibility into the system, an adaptation over time, if perhaps we do not need as many spaces in future. For now, we do need to be moving to a more realistic ratio of childcare places to homes as we increasingly urbanise. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Cummins  The Department of Children, Disability and Equality has established a working group in this area. It is chaired by that Department, in conjunction with our Department and the Department of education. We are reviewing the situation, and all the various points made by Deputy O\u2019Connell and Deputy Currie to me over a considerable period of time will be factored into this review. We are also reviewing development contribution schemes. This may have a role in how we address additional development in established areas. It may be more appropriate where a childcare facility is already operating, expansion is required and there is room for such expansion, that the more viable option may be to have such contributions supporting expansion of existing facilities rather than building smaller, unviable and piecemeal facilities. All these factors will be considered in the round. I thank the Deputy for her interest. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_24","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_25","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Provision","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_25","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_25.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  My question concerns the key issue of housing and all the different types of infrastructure that go with it. I ask the Minister for the information on all the housing projects currently under construction in Kildare North and those expected to commence before the end of 2026; and if he will make a statement on the matter. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I propose to take Questions Nos. 83, 106 and 169 together.  I thank Deputy Neville for raising an important question on housing projects currently under construction in Kildare North and those expected to commence before the end of 2026. My Department publishes data on residential commencement notices in each local authority every month. Commencement data shows commencement notices were lodged in respect of 2,099 new homes in May, more than double the 1,035 notices received in May last year. Commencement notices for 13,120 new homes were lodged from January to May this year, up 161% on the 5,033 notices received in the same period last year.  This progress is being mirrored across the country. In Fingal, some 1,623 commencement notices were lodged from January to May this year, over 11 times more than the same period last year. In Dublin city, 1,047 commencement notices were lodged, on par with the corresponding period in 2025. In Kildare, 439 commencement notices were lodged from January to May this year, up 40% on the same period last year. While it is not possible to predict when developments with planning permission will commence on site, some 1,406 planning permissions for new homes have been granted in Kildare in the last 12 months, to the end of quarter 1 of 2026, conveying an increasingly stable pipeline.  Increasing the supply of new homes is critical to alleviating pressures in the housing market, helping to moderate price growth and ease affordability challenges across the country, ensuring everyone has a range of housing options available to them, whether they want to buy a house, rent one, or are in need of social housing. In this regard, supply has increased significantly over recent years. Over the last five years, to the end of quarter 1 of 2026, almost 153,000 new homes have been delivered. This compares with 85,262 in the previous five-year period and just 29,278 in the five years before that. Delivering Homes, Building Communities seeks to build on this, and significantly accelerate delivery of new homes by focusing on activating land and creating the optimal environment to encourage housing activity, including regulatory reform, tax incentives and the largest ever capital investment in the history of the State, with \u20ac275 billion invested in infrastructure over ten years through the national development plan.  The Government is already implementing a host of actions to boost delivery. The recently revised national planning framework is a major step forward in this regard and will help to increase capacity and accelerate homebuilding across the country, while the new housing activation office, HAO, will work to address infrastructure barriers to housing delivery as a matter of priority. The HAO is taking a proactive and targeted approach to increasing housing commencements by focusing on the early identification and resolution of infrastructure constraints that can delay development and by co-ordinating investment across key delivery partners.  As part of this work, the Government launched the \u20ac1 billion housing infrastructure investment fund, HIIF, in January 2026, which is managed by the HAO and designed to ensure that essential enabling infrastructure is in place to unlock housing land. Under call 1 of the fund, I approved 82 projects last week. These projects have the potential to unlock land to deliver 86,000 new homes, with capacity for a further 113,000 homes over time. These projects range from local activation measures in towns and cities to larger strategic investments capable of supporting housing delivery at scale. The announcement I made last week represents the first step in building a pipeline of housing enabling infrastructure to support communities and housing delivery for many years to come.  Looking ahead, the housing activation office is actively developing future calls under the HIIF, building on the success of call 1 and strengthening the focus on strategic land banks and new communities aligned with public transport, along with broadening the range of delivery partners. Additionally, the Planning and Development (Amendment Act) 2025 is essential legislation to deal with expiring planning permissions and to encourage activation of housing. An enhanced Land Development Authority, LDA, is working to deliver more private housing, as well as social, affordable and cost-rental houses.  Increasing the number of new apartments being constructed is an essential component of the Government's housing ambitions, given the compact growth priority in the national planning framework. The new plan has taken decisive action to reduce the overall cost of apartment construction while increasing delivery in our urban areas. Budget 2026 introduced a suite of taxation measures aimed at stimulating the supply of new apartments, such as reducing the VAT rate on the sale of new apartments to 9%, and introducing an enhanced corporation tax deduction for apartment construction costs. My Department is also progressing the preparation of a draft national planning statement for the Government\u2019s consideration to replace the current apartment guidelines. The overall purpose is to strike an effective regulatory balance, ensuring that apartment development meets the needs of society in terms of standards and quality, while promoting an increased level of overall output. Sectoral feedback and preliminary data on planning permissions and commencements suggests that the sector is responding positively to the renewed environment for apartment delivery. My Department continues to systematically monitor investment, planning and commencement activity in apartments to examine the pipeline for new apartments and inform ongoing policy consideration in this area.  The programme for Government commitments relating to housing are well reflected in the new plan and, combined with the unprecedented level of investment the Government has committed, will bring about a very significant scale-up in the delivery of housing over the coming years, address the needs of the most vulnerable in our communities, make buying and renting homes more affordable and support the development of villages, towns and cities across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  I thank the Minister very much for his response. I will go through the specific statistics relating to County Kildare afterwards. I thank the Minister for the information.  I welcome the announcement last week from the housing activation office and the Minister\u2019s team. I also welcome the infrastructure we have in Kildare. The new bridge in Celbridge is an issue I raised when I was a county councillor in the context of the local area plan, and I have been pushing for the funding to be delivered since being elected to this House. It has now been delivered under the housing activation office. We also have the Maynooth outer orbital route, MOOR, the inner relief road in Naas and the roads in Confey. These projects are extremely welcome.  On the other hand, I am also conscious that we are struggling with Uisce \u00c9ireann, from the network perspective, to deliver water infrastructure. This is the case out around Prosperous, Robertstown, Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth, where we see regular burst water mains. While we are pushing for new houses, and I welcome that, at the same time, the infrastructure has to be able to meet that demand. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I agree with the Deputy. I thank him and all his Government colleagues for ensuring that County Kildare got a substantial amount of funding under the housing infrastructure investment fund that will, critically from the perspective of my Department and that of the Government, unlock housing. It will also, no doubt, help to unlock key community services as well. As the Deputy will be aware six projects in Kildare were approved. These include part of the Newbridge southern outer orbital relief road, the Naas northwest quadrant and canal quarter in Naas, the Naas inner relief road, the Captain's Hill upgrade in Confey, Leixlip, the Celbridge-Hazelhatch mobility corridor, and phase 1 of the MOOR at Crewhill in Maynooth.  The Deputy is also right, however, in relation to water infrastructure. In approving these types of funding under the housing infrastructure investment fund, we are using the housing activation office where we have Uisce \u00c9ireann and the ESB.  We are ensuring coherence such that where roads funding has been made available, we also have the electricity supply, water supply and wastewater treatment capacity to ensure housing is delivered in these key areas. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  I thank the Minister. We are broadly aligned on infrastructure. The other key element of infrastructure is the social element, be it from a sporting perspective or related to the sports capital grants that will assist local sports clubs, and indeed local community groups, in which I am heavily involved.  Housing is about the delivery of infrastructure but also about the delivery of the associated strands, with which the Minister's team is currently heavily involved. Being from north Kildare and having been a councillor there for so long, it is the area I am most conscious of. The issue in Kildare speaks to many of the issues we all have, specifically on the eastern corridor but also in the growth areas in many major towns across the country.  The country is doing really well economically. It is very well run from a Government perspective, and we can see that. At the same time, however, we need to consider population growth and push, as the Minister is doing, towards further growth in housing and the infrastructure required. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  Again, I thank Deputy Neville for raising important issues in County Kildare, particularly north Kildare, with which he is most familiar. The key infrastructure projects announced under the housing infrastructure fund are critical. It is also about working with ESB Networks and Uisce \u00c9ireann to ensure all the required additional capacity is put in place so the community facilities raised by the Deputy, be they cr\u00e8ches, sports facilities, schools or healthcare facilities, can also be put in place. We must have a co-ordinated approach. We are very much doing that through the Housing Activation Office. That is very important. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Provision"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_26","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Rental Sector","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_26","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_26.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  What are the Minister\u2019s plans to introduce measures to reduce cost-rental rents? Will he make a statement on this because cost-rental rents are too high and are locking thousands of people out of the rental market? The average rent for a three-bedroom house in Oscar Traynor Road is now \u20ac1,800. More and more applicants are being refused on affordability grounds. There are flaws in the model, which I will go into in my supplementary questions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I thank Deputy Sheehan for raising what is an important issue, namely, measures to reduce cost-rental rents. The cost-rental model was first introduced under the plan Housing for All and it has been continued and significantly expanded under the new plan, Delivering Homes, Building Communities. It is designed to provide secure, long-term homes for households on moderate incomes at rents that are significantly below private market levels.  The cost-rental support schemes in the new housing plan are key measures in seeking to address affordability challenges in the rental sector. This is why, under the new housing plan, the Government has committed to growing the provision of affordable cost-rental properties across the country.  What has been achieved in this area in the past number of years is significant. Cost-rental housing did not exist in this country five years ago. From a standing start in 2021, and because of the actions of this Government and the unprecedented level of funding provided in successive budgets, almost 6,000 new cost-rental homes had been delivered up to the end of last year and a substantial pipeline is currently in place. This is supporting people on moderate incomes who would otherwise struggle to afford rent to move into good quality homes at rents they can afford. It provides long-term security of tenure, provides a home and gives people who avail of the schemes a chance to plan for their future.  We are only getting started. I am not for one moment suggesting that we have done enough. We must do more. Clearly, we are not yet at the stage of supplying enough cost-rental homes to meet the demand. We have more work to do to ensure that units are made available at rental levels that remain affordable and sustainable. This remains a key challenge and one that is a priority for me and my Department.  While this is a real success story, I am not resting on my laurels. The homes that have already been delivered at heavy discounts to equivalent private rental market rates are meeting real demand, are incredibly popular and are providing much-needed secure and affordable homes in the rental sector. I am providing substantial funding to local authorities, the Land Development Agency and approved housing bodies to support cost-rental delivery. Since the introduction of the tenure in 2021, approximately \u20ac2.25 billion in departmental funding has been approved for cost-rental projects. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  I thank the Minister for his response. There are a couple of questions I want to ask. Has the Minister any plans in relation to all the fragmented subsidies that exist, like those related to the secure tenancy affordable rental investment scheme, STAR, and cost-rental equity loan, CREL, and the local authority funds. Does he have any plans to merge these?  I also want to ask about barriers to delivering cost rental at scale and whether consideration is being given to extending the repayment period of the CREL loan. This is something that has been raised with me by approved housing bodies, AHBs, because we have had incidents recently where some AHBs were pulling cost-rental developments. They are saying they are struggling because of the requirement for the rent to sit 25% below the market rate, yet rents are already high enough and need to come down. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I thank the Deputy again for his question on cost rental. As I have already pointed out, approximately \u20ac2.25 billion in departmental funding has been approved for cost-rental projects since 2021. In addition, significant loan financing is being made available through the State's Housing Finance Agency. Also, the reduction of VAT on new apartments to 9% under budget 2026 is playing an important role in reducing costs. All of these supports lower the net cost of delivery, enabling more cost-rental homes to be delivered and ensuring more affordable rents for tenants.  My Department's funding comprises non-repayable grants, equity investments and long-term loans at very low interest rates, which enable rents to be set below full cost recovery levels. As a result, cost-rental homes can be provided at rents that are significantly more affordable and considerably lower than comparable rents in the private market. Cost-rental homes provide a significant saving for the tenant, and I am aware that tenants who benefit are very appreciative of both the rents and the security of tenure the homes provide. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  To push back on that a bit, while cost-rental rents are somewhat lower, being on average about 30% lower than rents in the private rental market, they are still far too high. A market rent in Dublin of \u20ac2,300 still means \u20ac1,725 a month.  Will the Minister consider the length of time AHBs have to repay the CREL loan? That will answer some of the issues they have. Furthermore, will he consider decoupling our cost-rental model from the open market down the line and tying it entirely to underlying financial costs of delivery by amending the 2021 Act? When building costs and long-term maintenance rise, rents set at 25% below market rate cannot generate enough revenue to cover the actual cost of housing. This has forced bodies to scrap projects. We need to move away from the explicit linkage between initial cost rents and prevailing market rates. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  Again, I thank the Deputy for his question. If you have a pure cost model, you will have very significant variations in what the cost-rental rent will actually be. We have taken the approach of trying to ensure consistency below market rent values. A 30% discount below market rent value is a significant deduction, albeit in circumstances where rent is high, which I acknowledge. However, if we decouple and go purely with a cost model, based on the cost of providing the apartments, we could have apartments beside each other that could have very different rents based on very different costings. In some cases, there could be a reduction in the discount. That would provide a level of inconsistency and a lack of equity in the approach. That is where we have taken the view and approach we have taken, setting the rent based on the market rather than the cost inputs. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Rental Sector"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Rental Sector","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_27.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  What measures is the Minister taking to address rent increases in Kerry? We recently saw a three-bedroom house in the town of Tralee with an asking price of \u20ac2,400 per month.  In the public sector, increased rents are being asked for by local authorities. However, because services have been stripped from the local municipal district, in houses 11 to 16 in Mountain View in Balloonagh Estate in Tralee, sewage is backing up and coming into the houses and the local authority does not even have a jetting machine to allow it to address the issue. It is reliant on contractors who are coming in from other areas to address the issue. That is not fair when people are continuing to pay their rents. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I thank the Deputy for his question about addressing rent increases in Kerry. As he will know, the key to solving the housing crisis, which includes homelessness and high rents, is through increased supply. That is why the Government is providing record funding towards the supply of homes. It is also why we are taking emergency measures to address the delivery of homes.  We are also taking other measures. As the Deputy will be aware, under the housing infrastructure investment fund, we announced significant funding for County Kerry only last week for additional housing. My understanding is that those projects are shovel ready and will be ready to move quickly. The Lohercannon distributor road, L6715 Ashgrove Road and link road directly unlock lands for 450 residential units and indirectly unlock a further 788 homes, with an indicative cost of under \u20ac10 million. The Killarney strategic links and new transport link between the N22 Killarney and bypass and the R876 Park Road directly unlock lands for 500 residential units and indirectly unlock a further 581 residential units, at an indicative cost band of \u20ac10 million to \u20ac20 million. This shows our commitment to Kerry and to delivering additional houses in the county, not just through funding housing delivery but also ensuring the infrastructure is put in place, working with the ESB and Uisce \u00c9ireann, to ensure that the other capacity measures go through with it.  Affordability is central to the Government's housing policy under Delivering Homes, Building Communities, which targets the delivery of 300,000 new homes by 2030, including 72,000 social homes and 90,000 affordable homes. The Government is committed to tackling high rents and ensuring an increase in the supply, as I say, of affordable, high-quality rental accommodation through continued significant capital investment, including cost-rental, affordable purchase and social homes, in a manner that respects the security of tenure for renters by ensuring equity and fairness for tenants and landlords. On the topic of the delivery of more social homes, last year we built the highest number in the history of the State. That also frees up properties in the rental market to help control prices. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  There might have been the highest number built in the history of the State, as the Minister said, but it happened at a time when the population was way higher than it was in the 1960s and 1950s. The Minister said the answer is to increase supply but, unfortunately, what we have seen is an awful lot of extra houses in Adamstown and on the quays in Dublin. The supply in County Kerry is way behind. The result is that renters in Kerry have seen increases in the region of \u20ac3,000 annually, which is a 26% jump. It is a body blow for people whose rents are increasing when, unfortunately, their wages are not increasing by the same amount to match those increases.  If current tenancy trends continue, the average tenancy will be three and a half years, with 25% of tenancies being new each year. The vast majority of renters in the private sector will be swept into this market reset. The problem is that people in County Kerry are on waiting lists. They are waiting for supply for ten, 12 and sometimes 14 years. The town councils still have not been restored and the guaranteed increase in supply is not there. People are waiting and rents are increasing because supply is so low. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I thank the Deputy. We are making significant funding available to increase the numbers of social and affordable housing. I encourage the Kerry local authority to maximise the use of the available funding to deliver social homes and affordable purchase homes across County Kerry. The Department will not be found wanting in supporting an increase in the supply of homes. The key to challenging high rents is, as I say, supply. That is not just the supply of private homes. We must also ensure that more social homes are built. As I say, that moves people who are availing of the housing assistance payment, HAP, for example, into social homes and frees up properties in the private rental market. That will help to address availability and affordability. All of these measures are interconnecting.  I am conscious that rents are too high. I am conscious that people are struggling to find properties to rent and that is why the Government is providing record funding to address the housing crisis not just on the east coast but in every county across this country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Unfortunately, I have not heard the Minister say anything about what needs to be done. Does the Government have any plans to cut rents? Has it plans to ban increases or protect the renters who are faced with big rent increases? The Minister has not mentioned anything about students. They are going to have to pay the market rent from September. That is another tax on their education. We all know that Munster Technological University, MTU, in Tralee and other colleges around the country do not have the power to borrow and are not building their own accommodation, which could be more affordable.  The Minister mentioned the affordable homes scheme but there are practically no affordable homes in Kerry. It is ridiculous to talk about the affordable homes scheme in Kerry because there are none. There was practically zero emergency accommodation in 2011 but there are now huge amounts, catering for approximately 14,000 or 15,000 people. Since the town councils were abolished, there has been a concentration of emergency accommodation in Tralee, which is creating an imbalance.  Everywhere that the Government has tried to address housing it has made a hames of it, for people starting off in life and those at the end of their days in nursing homes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  We want Kerry County Council to provide more affordable purchase homes. The Department and Government would support it. Those homes are essential. I want everybody, across the spectrum, to be able to get the homes they need in their own local community, whether through private purchase, affordable homes or social housing. It is essential that everybody can access a home. Affordable purchase is essential for people who are on lower incomes but incomes that are above the social housing thresholds to be able to get that permanent home. I want the local authority in County Kerry to provide more affordable purchase. The Government is, as I say, providing record funding. We have built record numbers of social homes. We have also built a record number of cost-rental homes. All of this is about driving supply to address the crisis. Every home built helps to alleviate that, no matter what its tenure. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Rental Sector"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_28","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Schemes","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_28","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_28.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  I raise with the Minister the financial contribution scheme whereby local authorities acquire houses from over-60s at market value. In return, one third of the net proceeds of sale are given to the local authority and the senior citizens get a local authority unit and pay a differential rate on same. There are significant benefits for the economy and the overall housing situation. Those getting older who have empty nests get to offload significant responsibility and the cost of maintaining a house that has outgrown their needs. They usually move into a local authority senior citizens' unit which has the benefit of a liaison officer. Are there any plans to expand the scheme and put it on a statutory basis? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Kieran O'Donnell)  I propose to take Questions Nos. 86 and 99 together.  I thank the Deputy for bringing up this important issue. I do not know if Deputy Boland is here.  The Government's new housing plan, Delivering Homes, Building Communities, aims to deliver 300,000 new homes by the end of 2030, including 72,000 social homes and 90,000 affordable housing supports by the end of 2030. To achieve this, the largest ever housing budget in the history of the State has been secured in 2026, with in excess of \u20ac9 billion in capital funding through the Exchequer, the Land Development Agency and the Housing Finance Agency.  Delivering Homes, Building Communities includes measures which will increase delivery of housing for older people through increased delivery of social housing, increased delivery of more suitable homes, choice in private housing and increased choice to support voluntary rightsizing. Government is committed to increasing housing available to older people to facilitate ageing in place with dignity and independence, and to supporting rightsizing on a voluntary basis.  Delivering Homes, Building Communities also includes a commitment to develop an action plan on delivering housing for older people and this plan is currently under preparation. A number of local authorities are operating financial contribution schemes. However, these are non-statutory and there is no national scheme in place. In line with a commitment in the Delivering Homes, Building Communities, my Department is undertaking a review of the operation of existing local authority financial contribution schemes. Policy responses will be developed on foot of the findings of this review, which is currently under way.  The work under way at the moment is with the Housing Agency to advance a review of the financial contribution schemes operated by some local authorities.  As part of the Delivering Homes, Building Communities plan, which follows on from a commitment in the programme for Government, we have a specific action, that is, to review the operation of existing local authority financial contribution schemes. To advance that work, we have commissioned a body of work from the Housing Agency, which will specifically look at it. It will engage with the local authorities and come back to the Department with a report on this issue of financial contribution schemes.  Delivering Homes, Building Communities will also increase choice for older people who voluntarily right-size by advancing the availability of bridging finance to support right-sizing. As I already mentioned, this includes a review of the operation of existing local authority financial contribution schemes and supporting social housing tenants who wish to voluntarily right-size to more suitable accommodation. The Department is already progressing these actions to support older people who choose to voluntarily right-size, ensuring choice for older people seeking to move to more suitable accommodation or to right-size in place.  As part of the work being progressed, I am pleased to welcome the recent positive announcement by the Central Bank that it is amending the mortgage measures to exempt certain types of bridging loans from the loan-to-income limit that applies to lending for principal home purchases. This will assist in supporting voluntary right-sizing where older people choose to purchase a new home prior to concluding the sale of their existing home. I specifically met the Central Bank on a number of occasions with Department officials to ask it to look at this issue. It came back with this and I hope it will assist. In simple terms, if older people wish to move to a smaller, more suitable home of their choice and it becomes available prior to their home being sold, they will be able to apply to the banks for bridging finance and the issue of the loan to income ratio will not be a factor. It will be based on the asset and they will get the loan for up to 18 months, to allow them to move, if they wish to do so, on a voluntary basis.  From 2020 to 2025, the Department has provided almost \u20ac180 million of capital assistance scheme, CAS, funding for older people's housing, delivering a total of 592 units for older people, providing purpose designed, age-friendly homes. I look forward to Deputy Brabazon's response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  The scheme, as the Minister of State said, is non-statutory and it operates erratically. It is subject to funding being available in local authorities. Sometimes it is available and sometimes it is not and it is difficult as a public representative to be able to advise constituents who are in the over-60 age bracket on this, when the availability of the funding is intermittent and in some cases non-existent.  We are in a housing emergency. We should be putting the scheme on a statutory basis and resourcing it so it is available throughout the year. This would have the effect of providing an increased supply of available housing to the market, which is the stated aim of the Government and the Minister of State's Department. Along with the local authority and AHB supply of senior citizens' accommodation with planning for retirement villages, this could free up significant numbers of houses for private and social housing. This would help young couples to acquire freed-up housing. Therefore, I urge that whatever measures are being taken be expedited. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Kieran O'Donnell  I thank the Deputy for his considered response. It is a matter he has raised and is committed to. The measure is in the programme for Government. It is a specific action under delivering housing for older people. I committed to doing work on that even prior to the action plan being finalised. A review is currently under way by the Housing Agency on behalf of the Department of the financial contribution schemes operated by local authorities. It will interact with local authorities and, once the review has been completed, the policy response will be developed in response to the findings identified in the research. I want to do it on a structured basis. I note the points the Deputy raised. It is a priority in the older persons section of Delivering Homes, Building Communities to look at the issue the Deputy raised. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tom Brabazon  I thank the Minister of State. I welcome what he said but I ask him and his officials to light a fire under it and get it moving as quickly as possible so the new policy framework can be delivered as quickly as possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Kieran O'Donnell  Once again, I thank the Deputy for his contribution. A body of work is under way, as I stated, following on from defined actions under housing for older people section of Delivering Homes, Building Communities. We have committed to a review of the operation of the existing local authority financial contribution schemes and to have it as a real, evidence-based, substantive body of work. We commissioned the Housing Agency to look at it in great depth. As the Deputy said, some local authorities have been operating such a scheme, some have not and we want to look at it in the round. When we receive that research from the Housing Agency, we will consider it in depth in the Department. There is a reason it is in the new housing plan. It is because we want to look at it. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 87 to 90, inclusive, taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Schemes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_29","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Provision","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_29","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_29.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan)  I thank the Deputy for the question. It is good to see some focus on housing delivery in the rebel county. Increasing the supply of new homes is critical to alleviating pressures in the housing market, helping to moderate price growth and ease affordability challenges, ensuring everyone has a range of housing options available to them, whether they want to buy a house, rent one or are in need of social housing.  Data on new dwelling completions are published by the Central Statistics Office, CSO, on a quarterly basis. CSO data show overall housing delivery in Cork has significantly increased in recent years. Some 3,722 new homes were completed in Cork last year, an increase of 5% year-on-year and the highest annual delivery since the CSO data series began in 2011. This momentum continued into the first quarter of 2026, with 1,047 new homes completed, up 45% year-on-year, and again the highest first quarter completion figure since the CSO data series began.  While the Department does not forecast new housing completions in any given year, delivery in 2026 is likely to be strong. The Department is monitoring any headwinds to ensure we buttress supply into 2027 and 2028 appropriately as new measures under Delivering Homes, Building Communities bed-in over 2026 to enable delivery of at least 300,000 new homes by 2030. We will do this by focusing on activating land and creating the optimal environment to encourage housing activity, including regulatory reform, tax incentives and the largest ever capital investment in the history of the State, with \u20ac275 billion invested in infrastructure over ten years through the national development plan.  The unprecedented level of investment the Government has committed will bring about a significant scale-up in the delivery of housing over the coming years, while also supporting the development of villages, towns and cities. While it is important to acknowledge the significant challenges ahead, it is equally important to highlight that a continued level of intensity of effort will be ongoing to reach the scale required to meet our shared goal of 300,000 new homes by 2030. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  I thank the Minister of State. As the Minister of State will be aware, being from Cork, the reason I am raising this is that the number of new jobs being created in Cork is increasing every month and, therefore, the need for additional accommodation needs to be highlighted. We need to try to fast-track that housing. Cork City Council and Cork County Council are working hard with people making applications for housing and on developing and completing housing units.  In the areas outside the city, in the villages where there are challenges with sewage treatment, can some of those projects be fast-tracked so development can proceed? I am talking about such places as Courtbrack, Grenagh, Carrignavar, Glenville and Whitechurch. They cannot progress unless the services are available. What does the Department intend to do to highlight that issue? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan  I thank the Deputy. He makes a valid point on employment in the county, and it is a key challenge. If you take not just the tech and pharmaceutical sectors but also CUH, which is such a big employer, many of the incredible team of nurses, doctors and other staff need access to housing. That is a challenge we have to address but we are doing so. There are key ways that the Minister in particular has directed travel in the last number of months. The city and county development plans are being reviewed at the moment and going through their public consultation phase. That needs to accelerated so appropriate land can be zoned, and with that investment will come. The private sector is responding well to apartment buildings through the incentives there. Housing activation funding for Cork has been very generous.  On the question about villages and towns, Uisce \u00c9ireann, as far as I can see, is really building capacity and increasing investment in those villages and towns to deliver wastewater treatment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  On the issue of sewage treatment in villages, we still do not have a clear plan from Irish Water as regards access to services, including water services. For instance, in Whitechurch lorry loads of water have to be brought in every day because there is a well servicing the housing units there and it is not able to deal with demand during the summer months. It is likewise with Courtbrack. There has been a boil water notice in place there since September of last year and there is no indication from Irish Water as to when that issue will be resolved. Again, the situation is that a well is servicing all the housing estates there. Is there any plan to have a direct link between the main water schemes in the city or county to service those areas? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan  I thank the Deputy again. He raises a very important and relevant point, especially for our smaller towns and villages. This is where, as I was saying at the end of my last contribution, the significant investment announced by the Minister of almost \u20ac12 billion under the national planning framework and national development plan will allow Uisce \u00c9ireann to build capacity with respect to personnel and the funding of major infrastructure projects as well. Outside that there is capacity and we have heard of recent developments on the developer-led infrastructure that will allow developers to put in place their own wastewater infrastructure, where appropriate or up to a certain number of houses. That is obviously to be done in close collaboration with the EPA to ensure there are no legacy issues there. That is an exciting development for a few reasons. It allows a lot of those villages and towns where wastewater treatment is at capacity to expand and see people move in, which is key. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 92 to 98, inclusive, taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 99 taken with Question No. 86. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 100 to 105, inclusive, taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No.106 taken with Question No. 83. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 107 to 114, inclusive, taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Provision"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_30","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Local Authorities","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_24","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_30","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_30.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  I raise Kilkenny city and the status it has had since the 1609 charter, granted by King James, which established it as a city with a mayor. It survived Cromwell but it did not survive the recent local government legislation that reduced it from a city to a borough. That particular move has not worked fully for the citizens of Kilkenny city. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I thank Deputy McGuinness for raising the very important issue of strengthening local democracy and also seeking the reconstitution of boroughs or corporations similar to the structures that existed previously. The Local Government Reform Act 2014 dissolved 80 town councils, which represented about 14% of the population, including Kilkenny Borough Council. A lot of these were their own separate legal entities and this gave significant strength and control to local authorities and also allowed people to have a very strong say in what was happening in their towns and cities. The previous town council system, it is alleged, also led to duplication in administration and electoral terms, something I think is questionable. Instead, the Act saw the introduction of 95 municipal districts representing 100% of the population in 25 of the 31 local authorities at sub-county level, while area committees would operate in the three city authorities of Cork, Dublin and Galway, and the three Dublin county authorities. These local areas, of course, are not councils. Each municipal district can include several towns and villages and their hinterlands, with local matters dealt with at a municipal district level and wider strategic issues decided at the county level. The result is an integrated administrative structure in each county that maximises operational efficiency while ensuring devolved decision-making throughout the county.  Nonetheless, the Deputy will be aware of my view and that of the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, that councillors have seen a reduction in their powers. We want to see a rebalancing of powers towards them to ensure they can hold the officials in our local authorities to account and can ensure their towns and cities are being delivered for in a fair and equitable manner. That is why the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, and I established the local democracy task force, which was a key commitment in the programme for Government, in July 2025. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  If the Minister asks anyone in Kilkenny city or, I am sure, in his town of Wexford, he will be told the best structure of democracy they had - in Kilkenny's case since 1609 - was the corporation or the borough council. The stripping of that title is depriving people of a pride they had in that office, the office of mayor and the office of those who were elected to serve the citizens of, in this case, Kilkenny. I am asking the Minister to go back to the drawing board and to understand that a seven-person borough committee as part of Kilkenny County Council replacing the borough simply does not function and removes a huge positive connection between a city and its administration and the people they represent. It is not good enough that that would not be revisited and re-established. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  We have given this considerable consideration on the local democracy task force. The Deputy is right that my town lost its council and it diminished the representation at the time. The local government task force was established to build on the considerable body of work previously undertaken by the AILG - which represents councillors - the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities and Seanad \u00c9ireann. The local democracy task force presented its final report to me on 4 March 2026 and the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, and I will be bringing this to Government over the coming weeks. This will strengthen our local democracy and the powers of our local councillors. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  I wonder who the task force asked. I am aware it asked elected representatives, possibly, for their input and view but what about the people who are demanding it - the citizens we say we represent here? They are demanding something very different, not just accountability and transparency, which much be improved. They are asking for direct access to local democracy where decisions are made that affect their lives. They are asking for direct input through their public representatives about budgets that are passed, which also affect their lives. They are asking that history be examined and that the place for the likes of Kilkenny city would be acknowledged and that the role it plays in the lives of the citizens of that city would be acknowledged. I hope when the Minister reviews that document he will review the public demand in Kilkenny for the status of a city. I hope he will also have an input in the decisions and reflect on what I have said. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Browne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"James-Browne.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Browne  I agree that direct access to local democracy is absolutely essential and that is what the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, and I will be ensuring through the local democracy task force and our input. That connection will be reconnected through empowering our local councillors to hold the local officials to account. It will also mean that where representations are being made by local people, they can effect those changes and also be able to communicate those changes to people when they are happening.  We are fully in alignment in terms of re-empowering our local democracy by giving direct access to local democracies, local people and local councillors. Myself and the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, will achieve this through the local democracy task force and the implementation plan that will follow. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Local Authorities"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":20,"speakerCount":7},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  The T\u00e1naiste knows only too well the saga of Children\u2019s Health Ireland, CHI. Children with scoliosis and spina bifida were left waiting years for care. In many cases, they never received it. There were unapproved, non-medical springs implanted in children\u2019s backs, hundreds of unnecessary hip operations and mismanaged waiting lists. These are the so-called Crumlin orphans, children with complex needs who were ignored by the system and left with poor care. Promises were broken time and time again. There has been report after report showing mismanagement, a lack of transparency and our most vulnerable children being failed. Some reports have been published, some have been leaked but more are hidden or buried. Too often, families were the last to know, finding out through the media instead of from CHI. Broken promises have led to preventable deaths, lifelong harm, injury and disability. Trust between families, advocates and the system could not be lower. It is completely shattered.  The T\u00e1naiste\u2019s own broken promise that no child would be left waiting more than four months for scoliosis surgery is a very painful memory for these families. There are still 30 children waiting longer than six months for surgery, and the waiting lists are just as long as they were a year ago. It is because of those litanies of failures that families and advocates demanded an independent statutory inquiry, something the Government agreed to. We hoped it would be child centred, that families would be equal partners and there would be no hiding place for wrongdoing. This is what families and advocates say they were promised by the Minister and the T\u00e1naiste.  A group representing over 900 families affected by the scandals at CHI has raised serious concerns about the scoping exercise to determine the terms of reference. Despite promises from the Government that the truth and their children would be put first, advocates now say the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, has not remained true to her word and the process thus far has been anything but child centred or based on the needs of the families involved. They say documents are being hidden from them and unpublished reports are to be excluded. They say they are being stonewalled by a Minister who has not responded to their concerns. Families and advocates want one thing: to uncover the truth of what happened to their children and make sure it never happens again. That is something we should all want. There should be no hiding places, no fear of what may come out and no resistance to working with families and advocates.  This inquiry must be about truth, accountability and transparency. Any fit-for-purpose inquiry must also fully include families. It must have their faith and confidence. We can have that child-centred inquiry. It is not beyond us to get this right but it means the Government must listen to these advocates who have campaigned tirelessly for over a decade for their children and shown us the way forward. The only way to build trust is to work genuinely and in collaboration, with full openness and no attempt to limit, conceal or control access to information. The only motive should be to support these families and their children to establish the facts. My question today is simple: will the T\u00e1naiste listen to these families? Will he act on their concerns and make sure they can trust that this inquiry will not just become another broken promise? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Clarke for raising this important issue. At the outset, everyone on all sides of this House recognises the significant challenges, stress and worry that families face when they have a sick child, and the very significant challenges families face in relation to paediatric spinal services. There has been and continues to be ongoing additional investment in this area. A total of \u20ac30 million has been allocated to help tackle spinal waiting lists, including a ring-fenced theatre, additional orthopaedic surgeons, improved GP referral pathways and additional outpatient clinics. Indeed, I saw that a total of 556 patients attended Saturday clinics since the beginning of 2025. Opening up access at weekends is an important reform. When it comes to outpatients, we see now that the average wait time has fallen to 4.4 months, compared with 7.7 months in May one year previous. A total of 99.2% of patients are now waiting less than 12 months for their outpatient appointment. When we look at inpatients, 200 inpatient procedures have been completed so far this year and the average wait time has fallen from 5.3 months in May 2025 to 4.6 months in May of this year. The Deputy is entirely correct, however. The Minister and I, as well as everyone in the Government, knows there is a lot more that we want and need to do in this area.  There has been a number of concerning revelations over a sustained period of time in relation to CHI. That is why the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, has correctly taken the decision on the direction of travel in terms of replacing and subsuming CHI into the HSE. That is good from a governance point of view. It is an important step to take. The Minister has the full support of all in the Government in that regard. That is an important factor with regard to the issue of trust the Deputy raised. I accept that as well.  We have also seen recently the work the Minister and the former CEO of the HSE commissioned, whereby audits are to be carried out on waiting lists and concerns in this regard. We saw that published very recently. One of the things that is most striking when reading those audits is the poor communication time and time again. We agree fully with the Deputy that, often, issues in the health service can be added to or amplified by poor communications and families not feeling that they are at the centre of the information flow. That is why I welcome the Minister\u2019s decision to ask CHI to put in place a patient co-ordinator. So much can be improved when there are good, open and transparent lines of communication. I think the Deputy referenced that in her question.  The Minister and I have had sustained engagement with advocate groups. The Government agreed to establish a scoping inquiry. It is important for that work to be carried out. The eminent Mr. Remy Farrell SC has been appointed to do that work. He has been engaging with families, advocacy groups and consultants. I know he wishes to conclude that work shortly. The Government will also want to balance that with making sure that everyone has the opportunity to have their say and engage with him. I encourage everyone to engage. I say that respectfully. We have appointed an eminent and serious senior legal figure, without prejudice, in order for people to engage in that process and have their views heard. That will play an important role in shaping the terms of reference and the next step.  We all want the same thing, Deputy. We all want a situation where we have an inquiry that can examine the issues that have arisen and, as the Deputy said, ensure they do not arise again. We all seek to build a health service that can serve the needs of all of our children. We have that structure in place. The Government is committed to it. Mr. Remy Farrell SC is very committed to doing a good job. I encourage everyone to take the opportunity to have their say and input. The Government will respond in kind. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  What I find striking is the letter from the spina bifida and hydrocephalus paediatric advocacy group that states clearly, \"We feel we have no other option but to withdraw from this scoping exercise\". I find that deeply concerning. Trust is not built on promises; it is built on keeping them. These families were promised a child-centred, codesigned inquiry. Today, they say very clearly that promise has been broken. If the Government has nothing to hide, then let it hide nothing, honour the commitments that were made to these families and publish every unpublished report.  Every document and every unanswered letter sends the same message to these families that protection of the system matters more than uncovering the truth. Give families access to all the Children's Health Ireland, CHI, reports so that they can at least engage effectively. Let them see what happened. Let them see the truth and how it is that this came about because otherwise the T\u00e1naiste cannot say that this will never happen again. They want this to never happen again. It is not too late to do the right thing. This is one issue where the T\u00e1naiste needs to hold to his promises. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  To be clear, the Government is fulfilling its commitment to this House and the decision that it took to appoint Mr. Remy Farrell SC to carry out a scoping inquiry. There are a number of advocacy groups. There may be eight advocacy groups in this space in relation to children's paediatric spinal care and many are engaging with Mr. Farrell SC. I would encourage genuinely everybody to engage without prejudice to provide information, ask questions and raise concerns that they would like Mr. Farrell SC, as an independent external senior legal figure, to consider and to report back to Government. That is a good way to proceed.  We also extended the terms of reference to include the hip dysplasia group. This is not a question of Government. This is a question of getting to the answers in terms of CHI, the legitimate and important issues that people have highlighted so that the Minister is then empowered to take the appropriate decisions that she wishes to take to deliver a world-class children's health service, with a new national children's hospital, with all the additional resources going into children's health and with the reforms that she is leading on and the benefits we are seeing now around those additional resources, such as the Saturday outpatient clinics and the likes. We want everybody to engage here in good faith with Mr. Farrell SC. We want to make progress on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  Last week I raised with the T\u00e1naiste serious concerns about breaches of the public-only consultant contract in the Rotunda, Cork University Maternity Hospital and University Hospital Galway. I acknowledge the excellent work done by my colleague, Deputy Rice, exposing these systemic breaches - breaches that pose a risk for public patients.  A quarter of all work carried out a Galway University Hospital lab comes from the private hospital, Bon Secours. This extra work is overwhelming the system to the point that samples are being outsourced to private labs. This is done at enormous expense to the taxpayer. Due a service level agreement between Bon Secours and University Hospital Galway, private work is being washed through the public system. The taxpayer picks up the bill.  I raised the significant and dangerous delays this is causing for public patients in the D\u00e1il last week. A statement released by hospital management has since confirmed that there is a backlog of 3,449 samples waiting to be tested. These delays are not abstract. They involve people waiting for cancer diagnosis, people whose lives depend upon timely results, people who cannot afford to be pushed down a queue because 25% of the laboratory's workload is taken up by work from a private hospital.  These consistent delays resulted in the laboratory losing accreditation from the Irish National Accreditation Board. The lab does not meet nationally set guidelines for turnaround times despite the Trojan work of its dedicated staff. Galway University Hospital lab is one of the biggest in the country and in a major cancer centre and yet it has no official accreditation.  The Department of Health and HSE officials we in the Joint Committee on Health yesterday. The CEO of the HSE told my colleague, Deputy Rice, that they were completely unaware of the service level agreement between the hospitals. It is a remarkable statement from the very top of the health service. It raises serious questions about the scale of the issue and how many of these service level agreements are violating the public-only contract.  These contracts were signed in 2023 and were meant to be fully enforced by January of this year. Their entire purpose was to put an end to this kind of behaviour. Instead, we are discovering breach after breach and there is no evidence of any proactive monitoring from the Government to enforce this contract. My questions are: why has University Hospital Galway not immediately stopped this breach of the public-only contract? Is this happening in any other labs across the country? What has the Government done to check? What system has been put in place to ensure full implementation of the public-only contract? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy O'Callaghan for the question. I acknowledge this is an issue he has been rightly pursuing in this House for a period of time. The Deputy commended his colleague, Deputy Rice, the Cathaoirleach of the Oireachtas health committee. Deputy O'Callaghan will understand and appreciate I want to commend my colleague, the Minister for Health, because while I agree sometimes with Deputy O'Callaghan's analysis in terms of the destination we want to get to, it would be unfair to say that we have not seen an extraordinarily proactive approach from the Government since the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, took office. The Minister has shown very clearly to anybody down the back who did not hear that when you sign on the dotted line we expect you to do what you signed up to do.  The public-only contract holders are not permitted to engage in private practice within public hospitals. This position is unequivocal. There are to be no exemptions, no arrangements or no deviations. We would not accept it from anybody else working in the public service. If you sign a contract and you take the extra salary, you fulfil the terms of your contract. It is as simple as that. If you do not wish to sign the contract, that is also fine but you cannot have this each-way bet, as if to say, \"I will sign the contract, take the extra salary, and make me pure but not just yet.\" That is very simple. It is the Government policy. The Minister intends to implement it in full. It is, largely speaking, the policy of the Oireachtas across parties because, of course, it originated from the work of Sl\u00e1intecare.  I genuinely welcome, as does the Minister, the work being done at the Oireachtas health committee. It is helpful. It was very helpful in relation to the Rotunda. I believe, possibly next week, the committee may be due to see the Rotunda again and the HSE. That is a helpful opportunity for people who work for the public to outline the process that they are undertaking.  The Deputy used the word \"violating\". I can understand why but I would make the point that we are seeing the reform agenda being implemented here. What we are seeing now is getting to the phase of full implementation of the contract. I accept that the Government would have liked to gave seen us at this point earlier. The Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, has prioritised this since taking office.  Shortly the Cabinet Committee on Health is meeting with the clinical directors in each of the regions - the top doctors who are paid additional salaries to make sure this happens. The Taoiseach, the Minister and I will want to hear directly what is happening. There are also a number of regional meetings taking place across the country.  We are not for turning on this. The Minister made that clear. We are extraordinarily serious about this and health policy set in this building and in Miesian Plaza on Baggot Street, not set anywhere else. I hope everybody now working in the health service understands that fully.  In relation to the specific issue in University Hospital Galway, the Deputy is right that there is an issue here. The issue here is there is a histology laboratory in Galway. It processes on average 13,200 samples per month. The lab has been recently experiencing periods where demand exceeded available staffing resources and this resulted in a backlog of samples. The HSE has confirmed that urgent referrals will always be priorities. Samples are processed according to clinical priority but it has also advised now that the long-standing service level agreement that is in place with the local private hospital, the Bon Secours, to provide lab service is due to terminate this year. I think it may be due to terminate in September but it is certainly due to terminate this year. That is also an outworking of the reform agenda that the health service is currently undergoing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  The question I am asking here is: what exactly is the system to monitor and ensure full implementation of the public-only contract? Clearly, there is a number of breaches around the country. They are arising one by one. What system has the Government in place to ensure this contract is being enforced?  In relation to Galway, the T\u00e1naiste seems to be okay with the situation that this breach will continue for a number of months. The contract was signed. It was put in place in 2023 and meant to be fully enforced and fully implemented by January of this year. That has not happened. The breaches are continuing. Is the T\u00e1naiste okay with them continuing until later this year? Should the public-only contract not be enforced now? Is the situation where the management of the hospital is telling consultants on the public-only contract to continue to do private work where they have a backlog and where people's tests are being delayed? People are not getting the results in a timely fashion. The lab has no longer got national accreditation because it is not meeting the targets. That is not acceptable. Does the T\u00e1naiste agree that is not acceptable and the public-only contract needs to be adhered to now, not later in the year? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I fully agree with the Deputy. Let me be clear that the HSE has confirmed that any additional payments to consultants on that public-only consultant contract, POCC, contract relating to the service level agreement ceased at the start of the year. There are some consultants who do not work on a public-only consultant contract. It is important in winding down a long-standing arrangement and an agreement that that is done in a safe manner and that is the intention. However, it is ending because we are pursuing Sl\u00e1intecare. We are pursuing the public-only consultant contract. We are creating a public health service. The Minister for Health does not have responsibility for private health. She has a responsibility for delivering a world-class public health service. That is what we all want to do.  There is a number of activities under way. We have had the HSE audit from the last year. We have had the Minister putting in her own regional structure, engaging on a three-monthly basis in terms of each region over and over again, and the progress we are making as well. The Minister has also asked everyone in this House for their support.  She is working in partnership with the committee, which is a formidable combination and that needs to continue. I and the Taoiseach fully support these efforts, as does all of Government, and we look forward to meeting with the regional clinical directors too.  On a positive note, we have seen benefits with the public-only consultant contract already, whether that is the cardiology clinics on a Saturday and Sunday in Connolly Hospital, a Saturday hub in St. Vincent's hospital, weekend consultant cover in Wexford General Hospital, a minimum of 26 consultants now rostered at weekends in University Hospital Waterford, and the progress in Kerry, St. James's and Mullingar hospitals. We are seeing the benefits. This is a reform agenda. It is one the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is going to drive and it will make a big difference. We want to work in support with everybody across this House to get to where we need to. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  \"Isolated often at home, [my] child sees me constantly stressed and budgeting\/worrying about bills and arrears and going without [the] basics.\" Those are the words of one parent from the Barnardos cost of living survey published this week. One in five families is cutting back on food due to the cost of living. Nearly half have skipped meals or reduced portions so their children would have enough to eat - in a rich country. Thirty per cent felt that at some point, they did not have enough food to feed their children. Some parents said, \"Food for myself, I'm having to go without\" and that the \"Amount of food we buy had been significantly cut\". I could go on.  Today, we have more bad news for families up and down the country. The ESRI has warned that food prices will rise even higher because of second-round effects from the Iran war. Families already struggling will be hit again with higher energy bills and higher grocery costs in the autumn and winter. As the T\u00e1naiste will know, electricity bills are rapidly rising, with an 8% hike from Electric Ireland in July, which is an extra \u20ac140 a year on average family bills. Flogas plans to increase its prices by 10% and we have already seen PrepayPower up its prices in May. The Government has nothing to offer on energy costs, not since it bought its way in the last election.  I could ask the T\u00e1naiste what the Government has done to ensure lower food, energy and grocery prices, but the truth is it is a big fat nothing. There has been lots of talk about competition and the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, but nothing of substance has been done. Looking at last year's budget, we can recall what the Government did not do. There was no indexation of income taxes, no energy credits, no increase in children's allowance and there was a cut to one-off cost-of-living payments. PAYE workers and hard-working families were mogged - mogged by burger barons and the highly profitable hospitality sector.  The T\u00e1naiste's Government made the choice to give them a VAT cut, and we know where the T\u00e1naiste's focus has been for much of the past week. It has been on giving the red carpet treatment to influencers who came to the Department to talk to him about his wealth account plans. This contrasts with the carpeting received by PAYE workers in last year's budget. Let us not forget the endless reports and meandering to the media by various Ministers on inheritance tax cuts, when all the while parents are focused on feeding their children and making sure they do not go hungry.  Temperatures are rising, but so are prices. What will the T\u00e1naiste do practically to help lower food prices? Next week, the lower VAT rate kicks in and tourists will be arriving from all around the world to eat in our restaurants, which is a good thing. We will have EU diplomats from across member states descending on Dublin and having their takeaway coffees. Families who can afford to might be going out to get a burger this summer, if the good weather continues. Will they be paying lower prices? Will the T\u00e1naiste directly call on the hospitality sector to commit to passing on the VAT cuts he is about to introduce, through lower prices for customers across the country? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Deputy Nash really does not like burgers, but we will get to that in a second.  This Government has taken a number of actions in endeavouring to assist people. We should remind ourselves that in the country we live in, there are over 2.8 million people who got up and went to work this morning - the highest number ever. Figures from the CSO show the average weekly wage is now over \u20ac1,000. Yes, we are living in a time of huge global uncertainty but, thank God, we have resources as a country to intervene. The Deputy asked what the Government did to assist people with fuel and the likes. We delivered the largest or second largest package in the entire European Union for direct assistance. This did not just help specific sectors, although it helped them too. It helped hauliers, farmers, farm contractors and people working in road transport. It helped everyone going to work who needs to put petrol or diesel in their car but it also, and I have made this point before, reduced inflation by 0.6% per month on what it would have been. The cost of food would have been 0.6% higher, from an inflationary point of view, in Dunnes, Tesco, SuperValu and shops in Louth, were it not for the package the Government put in place. That cannot be overlooked. That is not my view; it is the view of the chief economist and the economic analysis of the package we put in place.  We increased the fuel allowance and, next week, something else is happening that is not just VAT being reduced. The carer's allowance is being expanded. There will be thousands of carers receiving the reduced rate of the carer's allowance who might now qualify for the larger rate, and there will be some who do not currently get carer's allowance who will qualify for the first time ever. That is happening next week.  As the Deputy knows, we also introduced the largest ever increases in child support payments, with over 330,000 children benefiting from these increases. The national minimum wage has increased since 2020 by 40%, from \u20ac10.10 per day to today's rate of \u20ac14.15. We have also reduced people's VAT to 9% on gas and electricity bills. We have reduced college fees and brought in free hot school meals, free schoolbooks, free GP care for under-eights, and we have extended the back-to-school footwear and clothing allowance to preschool for the first time ever. This Government has taken several actions to help people.  However, the decision to reduce VAT in the hospitality sector is a very important one, and do not forget the hairdressers----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  I did not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  -----with \u20ac48 million being the cost for hairdressers - the beard trimming. This will benefit. There are over 150,000 people working in the hospitality sector and, I will be very honest, this is not about reducing the cost of a cup of coffee. I am not going to lie to anybody here; it is not about that at all. This is about supporting employment. It is about saying to the coffee shop owner, restaurant owner and pub that might do a lunch in rural Ireland that we are helping them by reducing their tax bill because they are helping us in providing employment.  The Deputy mentioned the old beef barons or burger barons or whatever you call them. CSO data shows that 99% of those working in food catering and accommodation are SMEs, and half of those are microenterprises that have less than ten employees. This is an initiative that will disproportionately benefit rural and regional Ireland, small businesses and microenterprises. It is the right decision. I look forward to standing with coffee shop owners, caf\u00e9 owners, hairdressers and restaurateurs to say we took this decision to support jobs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputies  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ged Nash  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for going through some of his greatest hits in recent years, but the question is what will be done for working people this year? The T\u00e1naiste has acknowledged that as a result of the untargeted VAT cut for the hospitality sector, PAYE workers had to go without indexation last year, which means more of the money they earn this year - the small increase they get from their pay increase - will by and large go to the taxman. The T\u00e1naiste said earlier in the House that this was wrong and the Government has to make up for that. However, with all the promises made over the past few weeks by various Ministers going through the media rounds, the tax package for this year seems to be already swallowed up.  The T\u00e1naiste and I have a difference in opinion on how we can best support the small caf\u00e9s and restaurants around the country that we need to support. This expensive blunt instrument is not the way to do it. The way to do it is to introduce targeted energy supports and reform the outdated commercial rate system to address some of the structural cost issues in our SMEs across this country. A blunt instrument like this that is costly and will disproportionately benefit franchises and big chains is not the way to do it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I said to the Deputy earlier, and I am happy to say it again, that I do not doubt his bona fides or that of his party in wanting to support small businesses. I do not doubt that at all. We just have a different policy approach to this. I also made this point, and I will make it again, that we had an election. In that election, I stood in coffee shops, restaurants, pubs that served food and hotels, and I said to people that if they voted my party back into Government, and the Fianna F\u00e1il party did the equivalent, we would reduce their VAT rate. It was a promise we made to people right across this country and is a promise we are delivering on - promise made, promise kept, promise delivered. It is a permanent reduction in costs and taxes on employment that specifically impacts regional and rural Ireland, small businesses and microenterprises.  The Deputy knows well what we are thinking of doing in the next budget. We will have the summer economic statement next month, which will outline the amount we will have for additional spending and will allocate the amount we will have for a tax package. There will also be a personal income tax package. I believe we need to look at the budget in the round. Tax can do some things, which it should. There are too many people paying the higher rate of tax at too low an entry point, but there are other things we can do on the spending side to structurally reduce costs families face, including workers. The Deputy referenced childcare, which would be an obvious area too. We will be going through the budget and looking at that. The summer economic statement will be the next chance we will have to take stock next month. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I thank the T\u00e1naiste for that. I wish to welcome a group of students from Trinity going into their third year, who are accompanied by a very special member of Senator Sharon Keogan's family. I wish them well in their day here in Leinster House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I am sure the T\u00e1naiste will join me by offering his sympathies and the sympathies of the Government on the passing of Sr. Colette Hickey, who passed away at the age of 108. She was the founder of Edel House Cork and the first winner of the 1993 Cork Person of the Year Award for the tremendous work she did for our city.  This week, we have reports in the press of 265 people aged 65 or older living in emergency accommodation. A total of 146 of them live in Dublin alone. These are men and women who should be well settled into their retirements, not sleeping in hostels and hubs. It is not long ago that I brought up in this House a case in Mallow in my constituency, where we have a lady approaching 80 years of age who has been placed in homeless accommodation far from her network, neighbours and everybody who she associated with through her lifetime. Unfortunately, that is not an isolated case. This is just one of the human faces of the figures that I have given this House.  It is not the first warning that this Government has received. In January, the Simon Communities of Ireland, working with the Simon Community Galway, published a report a report on homelessness in later life. It found that old age homelessness had doubled in the past five years. It found that the assumption of older people owning their own homes or being in secure tenancies was no longer a reflection of the reality of the State. More often, it struck me that many of these people are in private rented accommodation with rapidly rising rents, watching their own security that they spent a lifetime building disappear in front of their eyes. Uachtar\u00e1n Connolly attended the launch of that report in Galway. She said it shines a spotlight on the growing number of older people experiencing homelessness, and particular attention should be given to the recommendations. When the President of Ireland says that this needs to be looked at, surely the Government and this House should pay attention to that.  The report sets out six clear costings in its policy recommendations, namely, stronger national leadership, better legal protections, increasing resources for homeless services, and a targeted strategy for expanding age-friendly housing. In fairness to it, that is not a radical ask. They are basic and achievable steps by any Government, I would have assumed. The report's authors said that Ireland has a window of opportunity to act before it becomes entrenched. Five months have passed since its launch and the numbers have not improved, as I laid out. The lady in Mallow is not the only one in homeless services, living at a homeless hub at the moment.  This is not being treated as a priority by the Government. We seem to have a problem in this State where we look at elderly people and think it is someone else's problem. How many of the six recommendations in that report has the Government adopted? Will it publish a timeline? Is the Minister for housing delivering on them? Has the report been welcomed by the Government publicly but shelved privately? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I join Deputy O'Flynn in extending my sympathy to the friends, family and fellow sisters of Sr. Colette Hickey. What an incredible age and, indeed, an incredible life of service and impact on people, particularly in Cork. Ar dheis D\u00e9 go raibh a hanam d\u00edlis. I thank the Deputy for extending his sympathy to her in the House.  I thank Deputy O'Flynn for raising this issue. I do not dispute that it is serious. One reason we decided that for the very first time the Minister of State with responsibility for older people should be based in both the Department of Health and the Department of housing is the recognition that we cannot just have conversations about older people from a policy perspective in the Department of Health. We also need to have conversations about health and well-being in the context of housing. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, is committed to this agenda and working extraordinarily hard on this. Compared with the previous one, the last census showed the scale of the challenge here. The Deputy is right to highlight that the number of people over the age of 65 renting had increased by a very significant amount.  There is a real policy issue here, which I do not doubt. That is why this year we will be producing a specific housing plan for older people. I will give the Deputy a flavour of some of the issues that we believe need to be addressed. Rightsizing is an important issue and the Department of Finance, with the Central Bank, has put in place a change to the bridging finance rules regarding access to mortgages, which is important for older people who need to rightsize for their own quality of life and health, and want to live in their own community. Not being prohibited by rigid mortgage rules is a positive development. It is why some of the tenancy protections are important, being able to provide six-year tenancies for people rather the uncertainty we have had in our country before. That is why we also need to work specifically with older people on social housing targets for every local authority, and in the new plan, we will be. I do not say this to be critical of Cork. In fact, it is a positive. A city like Cork could really help to lead the way here by becoming a local authority that decides to set targets. There is nothing to stop any local authority from doing this today but we will be mandating it as part of our plan for every local authority to set targets for the number of older people's homes they will deliver each year. Any of us who have been involved in public life have seen what used to happen in the past, where small clusters or estates of homes used to be developed for older people and-or people with a disability. I am not being critical of anyone but that stopped for a while and we need to really revamp and rebuild that.  We need better data collection processes regarding older people. We need our local authorities to enhance delivery through improved site identification, working closer with the approved housing bodies too. We need to and will recognise in the plan the increasing number of older people renting in the private rented sector and examine those affordability challenges for older people approaching retirement in the sector and how we, as a Government, need to help to address those challenges. We will be back as soon as possible this year, with our housing plan for older people. We will encompass these issues in that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I am looking forward to meeting Valerie O'Sullivan, our city chief executive, and informing her that the Government will make moneys available for housing plans for older people. There is another elephant in the room which I want to make the Government aware of, that is, people who lost their houses back in the 2008 to 2009 period. They are now in rented accommodation and back on their feet. Some of them have restarted businesses. Some of them are back working but they are renting. A number of these people are rapidly approaching 65 now. I predict that there will be a tremendous increase in people approaching local authorities throughout the country, saying they can no longer afford the \u20ac2,300 rent and need to be on a local authority housing list. I predict that will be a huge problem facing this country. I do not think we are accounting for it, thinking about it, or planning for it. Losing your home in your 70s is not just a housing problem. It is a health, mobility and routine problem, and people certainly lose their dignity when they lose their home at that age. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Simon Harris  I largely agree with the Deputy's analysis. We are still seeing the scars of that financial crash, where people who lost their home at a certain age are now ageing. We have to be prepared. That is one of reasons we are doing a specific body of work led by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, which will come to Government shortly. Alongside the reasons the Deputy pointed out, we are also seeing a significant increase in life expectancy, which is largely a good thing for society, but also a change in our demographics. We are expecting that the population aged over 85 will increase by over 140% in Ireland by 2040. There is very significant demographic churn. We are still one of the youngest populations in Europe but we are ageing fast. We are very committed to acting on this. We allocate a lot of money to local authorities. I would say respectfully that all of them need to start showing creativity with regard to the type of housing they are delivering, including homes for people with disabilities and homes for older people. Social housing is used as a kind of umbrella term. We need to start looking at the types of social housing that are required and that mixed tenure. I would be happy to meet Cork City Council about that at any time. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  As we are all in here in our suits, sitting on these leather chairs, the weather outside is gradually getting better, and people in my constituency will be going to the beach. Four young people from my constituency, 17-year-old Aoibheann Conlon, Laura Daly, and brothers Ois\u00edn and Gavin Weadick, Clontarf Sea Scouts, saved the life of a swimmer recently who was struggling to swim. I asked the Taoiseach to meet them and I am asking the T\u00e1naiste if he will meet them because these young people represent an issue, the uncomfortable truth that they were better prepared than we were to save someone's life. We know we are going into the best weather. We have the data to show that it is coming. The current swimming period is set monthly by the councils.  When we know the weather is going to be good, we need to have lifeguards on the beach. Tragically, last month, there was the loss of the life of a teenager on Burrow Beach in Howth. There was not a lifeguard on duty as they are not funded. We need to have more reactive lifeguards across Ireland and to be better prepared.  There were 80 drownings in 2025 and there have already been 33 this year. The UK, a country with 12 times our population, recorded 193. That is not comparable. It is not acceptable but it is fixable. A thousand swimmers and families across my constituency signed a petition last year calling for better services. We have seen a lot of investment but we need more.  With water safety comes water quality. Yesterday we had statements on it. The issue is that the EPA's report is showing that urban wastewater incidences are frequent and are causing bathing water closures. We are relying on water testing that is days old. However, real-time monitoring is standard across Europe in countries like Denmark. We need to be proactive rather than reactive. That cannot be a political soundbite. It needs to be put into action.  Thousands of people will go to Howth this weekend. The T\u00e1naiste saw the recent videos of people queuing outside the DART station. It was like they were queuing to see Santa. There was a giant line. I went in it myself. It took 40 minutes to get out of Howth.  While we are talking about beaches and preventative measures, I raise the issue of litter and dumping in Dublin Bay. An enforcement officer needs to be present on hot days. If someone can bring cans of Coke down to a beach, they need to be punished if they are littering on a UNESCO heritage site. An enforcement officer needs to be on site who can give a fine. It is not acceptable when someone brings down rubbish to a protected area with endangered species and leaves it there without any consequences.  I hope that the T\u00e1naiste will meet these heroes from my constituency but I also hope, ahead of the weather across Ireland, he will bring in proactive measures to fund councils and give preparation for these swimmers. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy for the work he is doing and for highlighting this. I welcome the people with us today and their heroic actions. I thank the Deputy for highlighting that too. I take seriously the point the Deputy made about lifeguards. I live on the coast as well, in Wicklow. In all weather, but particularly in this weather, people tend to flock to the beaches and flock to our seas. There is a legitimate issue around lifeguard numbers and the likes. I will certainly talk with Government colleagues in relation to that and I am happy to engage with the Deputy on it.  Dublin Bay is a beautiful place. I was at Raheny United last week. I met some young people in a coffee shop who said they were all friends with Deputy Barry Heneghan. I said \"I know him.\" It was good to be out in the constituency with my colleague, Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed. Dublin Bay is one of our greatest natural amenities. I welcome the ongoing work by the Dublin Bay task force, chaired by Dublin City Council, aimed at improving the bathing water quality further. The Department of housing, along with Uisce \u00c9ireann and the local authorities, are now funding UCD's Acclimatize 2 project to carry out a study identifying and targeting pollution pressures as well. The Dublin Bay bathing water task force - that is quite a mouthful - will work closely with the research team in UCD as well.  I recognise the point the Deputy made that people are swimming outside the summer season. The bathing water quality amendment regulations were published to allow local authorities to define the bathing season in their own area, which was meant to be an important step forward as well.  I take the point on the issue of public transport. People will flock to an area like Howth. I know the Minister for Transport is working with the National Transport Authority, with Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann and with the Deputy to increase DART capacity and reliability. We want people to have confidence that they can choose public transport and not have to queue for a significant length of time.  I join the Deputy in remembering the young girl who tragically lost her life at Burrow Beach. Any such loss is absolutely heartbreaking. Everybody in this House extends their thoughts to that family and community.  There is more we can be doing in terms of amenities and the point the Deputy made around that. We talked about water quality but also the visitor experience and things like public toilets and changing facilities, so that people have a more enjoyable, healthier day but also that the local community, when so many visitors come in, feel the area can cope in terms of the right amenities being in place. A lot of the issues here involve different agencies and levels and involve a bit of joined-up thinking. This is the approach we are trying to take. Perhaps what the Deputy might like to do is to outline to us from this conversation the various issues in Dublin Bay. I will undertake to liaise with the relevant Ministers and agencies on the Deputy's behalf to try to co-ordinate some of this response and come back to the Deputy and engage further. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I am delighted to outline my three key asks. I am delighted that the T\u00e1naiste has asked. It is good to see he was in Raheny with Deputy \u00d3 Muir\u00ed. Will the Government provide direct funding to DCC and Fingal County Council to extend lifeguarding cover? I was a swimming teacher for five years. I know I do not look like it now. This is something that we need to do. The summer is here and the warm weather is coming. Will he commit to real-time water quality testing? It is done in Denmark. As Deputy \u00d3 Muir\u00ed will know, I am very fond of Denmark's energy system, but I am also fond of how they cleaned up the port and made it safe for swimmers.  Will the T\u00e1naiste properly fund the Coast Guard and emergency services? These repair crews also worked hard this week when there was an issue on the northern DART line and they worked overnight. That is something that needs to be funded but ahead of this weekend, the Coast Guard team will be responding in Dublin Bay. These people are working with everything they have and they deserve proper resources. A total of 3,000 parts per million of E. coli in water is six times the safe amount. It is not acceptable for my constituents or anyone's constituents to be forced to swim in that water. N\u00edl s\u00e9 maith go leor. Le linn an ord\u00fa dianghl\u00e1s\u00e1la, bh\u00ed daoine ag athr\u00fa na ruda\u00ed a bh\u00ed \u00e1 nd\u00e9anamh acu, cos\u00fail le sn\u00e1mh agus na ruda\u00ed mar sin. Caithfimid an infhest\u00edocht a chur isteach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I do not want the Deputy getting the wrong idea that I went to Raheny and did not invite him. It was a Fine Gael members' coffee morning. I was not sure whether the Deputy was ready for that invitation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I was at a business event. I did meet one of the T\u00e1naiste's colleagues though. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  To balance my comments - what was the name of the----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  Conor. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I met Conor in a good coffee outfit outside Raheny United. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  It is called The Lab. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  They were very pleased to see the 9% VAT rate coming in next week. They spoke fondly of the Deputy too.  The issues the Deputy raised are serious and I take them seriously. We are seeing bathing water quality continuing to be high overall nationally. Around 98% of our sites are meeting or exceeding the minimum standard. That is good. They are EPA figures. It does not take away from the Deputy's point in relation to Dublin Bay. The work of the Dublin Bay task force matters to all of us. I look forward to the outcome of that UCD research project, which is trying to identify the main causes of pollution here and what we can be doing more proactively regarding that. I have huge respect for the work of the Coast Guard, as well as for the resourcing of it, including its facilities. I will certainly speak to the relevant Ministers on those three issues and ask that they come back to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_33","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation","counts":{"speechCount":69,"speakerCount":21},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_33","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel McCarthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Today, the ESRI warned that food prices will go up again this autumn. Ordinary families are under real pressure. They are working hard but are still struggling to pay their bills. They are getting crucified by rent, childcare and insurance. Now they read that the basics in their presses are going to go up. It will not just be them. The ESRI also said that those on fixed incomes, such as pensioners, those on disability payments and low-paid workers will be hit the hardest. It is chipping away at people's quality of life. Does the T\u00e1naiste accept that the delays and half-measures from the Government on fuel prices have made the situation worse? What action will he take to protect working families from another cost-of-living shock and ensure that there is real accountability and transparency in supermarket pricing and profits? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Clarke for raising the issue of the cost of living. I am slightly surprised she did because I was wondering c\u00e1 bhfuil Mary Lou this week. I happened to see online that she is over in the United States at a Friends of Sinn F\u00e9in talk tonight. You can pay $250 at 6 p.m. to be a champion for change and she will throw in a free T-shirt----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Is the T\u00e1naiste following all the female TDs around or is it just Mary Lou? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Pardon me? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Is the T\u00e1naiste tracking the movements of all the female TDs or just Mary Lou? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  No, I was just wondering where the Leader of the Opposition was. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James O'Connor  Sinn F\u00e9in is the only party raising money in America. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Can we stick to the question, please? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James O'Connor  From their Provo supporters. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  What a peculiar answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I was wondering where the Leader of the Opposition was this week----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  The ESRI. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  ----- to find out that when Sinn F\u00e9in is lecturing us in here in relation to the cost of living, it is charging $250 and throwing in a free T-shirt at a fundraiser. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Food prices, T\u00e1naiste. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  The leader of Sinn F\u00e9in should be in this House doing her job. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Supermarkets here. Fuel prices here. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  That is not the purpose of the question. We will move to the next question. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  The leader of Sinn F\u00e9in should be in this House instead of charging $250. This Government has a proud track record when it comes to supporting people. The package we put in place, which Sinn F\u00e9in voted against, reduced the cost of diesel and petrol and----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Which will go up again on 1 August. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  -----reduced inflation by 0.6%. We expanded the fuel allowance----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  To families who do not earn enough. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  -----with the largest or second largest package in the European Union, while Mary Lou is over charging people $250 and----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Who else's diary does the T\u00e1naiste follow? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  ----- giving out free T-shirts. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  The Dublin Simon Community's report this week showed a 20% increase in the number of women accessing its homeless services. We are in the midst of an unprecedented human catastrophe, with mass evictions taking place across this country. Families, children and the elderly are being evicted from their homes. A total of 30,000 households have been issued a notice to quit just in the last 18 months. One case I want to highlight is from the T\u00e1naiste's own constituency. We were contacted by May Kelly and her husband, Michael, who have been renting in Wicklow for 20 years. They paid their rent on time every month. They are an elderly couple. Michael, who is 67, has been hospitalised and undergone three amputations. They have to vacate their home by December.  They have applied to the council but it has said they are over the limit. He is retired and now the council needs discretion to address their issue.  What kind of society are we becoming when a 67-year-old double amputee is being evicted and facing homelessness? Will the T\u00e1naiste correct his statement from last week when he said the majority of tenants are covered by a no-fault evictions ban? That is not true. The majority of 250,000 rental households who are not covered by the new measures are still at risk of eviction into homelessness. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  As Deputy Hearne knows, because we discussed this at length when Sinn F\u00e9in raised this last week, my comments related to the new measures that were brought in and it is true that under the new measures new tenancies, the majority of people are covered on no-fault evictions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rory Hearne  Not the majority of existing tenants. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Obviously, measures you bring in are prospective. We brought in a whole package of measures in terms of longer tenancies, making sure the RPZ was nationalised and bringing in an effective no-fault eviction ban for the majority of new tenants as well.  I take very seriously the case the Deputy raised. I do not feel too comfortable about speaking about an individual case in the D\u00e1il but if the Deputy wants to sent me the details, or send them to my constituency office directly, I will work with Deputy Whitmore on this. We need to do better on that and I am happy to engage on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  The T\u00e1naiste will recall a couple of weeks ago I raised the issue of the Glenmore static camera where 35,099 fines have been issued in 11 months. There are about 80 cameras across the country which are exactly the same. I have the results for the other ones and it makes for interesting reading: Carlow - 15,880; Mayo - 11,476; Cork - 3,369; Donegal - 2,925; Limerick - 1,051; Gorey - 1,150; and Galway - 397. Bear in mind 30,599 fines were issued from Glenmore, which raised \u20ac4.9 million. This is grossly unfair. The staggering and unexplained disparity in fines issued from one camera to the next makes enforcement look inconsistent and deeply unfair.  People have lost their licences, their insurance is up and they are receiving multiple penalty points because of the appalling signage. These are welcome and much-needed cameras. Nobody is arguing against that but people must be fairly treated. With 30,599 from one camera in south Kilkenny, something is wrong. People must be treated fairly. These fines must be rescinded and the penalty points rescinded also. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  What people should do is slow down. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  There is problem. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I try to be constructive in this House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  There were 397 in Galway. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Allow the T\u00e1naiste to answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  The problem is lots of people are dying on our roads. I am serious about this. If the assertion is the camera is wrong----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  If the assertion is the camera is broken, then I would ask someone to please look into the broken camera. If the assertion is that people are speeding and should not be getting a fine, that is not it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  Signage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  Can someone please check this? I am not responsible for the operation of cameras but if the camera is not working, it should be fixed. I presume the Department of Transport can look into that, or the garda\u00ed. The broader issue here of these static cameras making sure our roads are safer is a really important one. If our cameras are catching people speeding, and penalty points or fines are being administered, that is Government road safety policy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Last week a UK report showed that girls who receive the HPV vaccine in their early teens have an almost zero risk of dying from cervical cancer but at a time when the research shows there is a chance of actually eliminating cervical cancer, uptake rates of the vaccine in schools is actually falling all over the country. It is down to 63% of girls taking it up in the Dublin North West region. In January, the Minister for Health announced a HPV vaccine catch-up programme for fifth and sixth year students. This was a really positive step, which I warmly welcomed as chair of the cross-party group on cancer. However, there is still a gap. There is no new catch-up scheme for young adults who missed the vaccine in schools. It costs \u20ac200 a dose for them. The national immunisation advisory committee, NIAC, recommends the vaccine for those up to the age of 24 years. When will the Government bring forward a new HPV catch-up campaign for young adults, so they can benefit from this protection as well? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I acknowledge genuinely Deputy O\u2019Gorman\u2019s long-standing commitment in relation to this. It is quite incredible that we have a vaccine in this country that can effectively eradicate a cancer that disproportionately impacts and kills young women in this country. Unfortunately, there have been campaigns, misinformation and disinformation. At times, not every Member of this House has supported the vaccine. I hope we have moved beyond those times because this is a vaccine that is highly safe and highly effective and everybody should support it.  I welcome the Deputy's thanks to the Minister for Health and the work she is doing on the catch-up programme. I know the priority here is to target the vaccine in the first instance at the age group where it is most effective - I think that is close to the age of 13 year - but we certainly do not rule out taking further actions; far from it. The Minister will continue to monitor this closely and I will keep in close contact with the Deputy on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I want to raise a very serious concern coming directly from front-line healthcare staff, particularly our advanced nurse practitioners. There is growing alarm at a proposal within the Department of Health to break the long-established pay link between advanced nurse practitioners, ANPs, and assistant directors of nursing, ADON. This is a link grounded in a Labour Court recommendation and one that recognises the level of responsibility involved. ANPs are highly trained masters-level technicians. They diagnose, prescribe and manage complex patient care every single day. In many areas, especially across rural Ireland, they are absolutely critical to keeping people out of overcrowded emergency departments and helping to reduce waiting lists. Yet, at a time when we desperately need more of these professionals, the Government is considering a move that would devalue the role and discourage experienced nurse from progressing into advanced practice. What kind of signal does this send to the profession? Will the Government now step back from the proposal and commit to protecting an established ANP-ADON pay link, so we can retain and grow this vital workforce? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  The Deputy will be glad to know the Minister for Health thinks he is entirely right and, therefore, I do too. I know the Minister spoke to this at the INMO conference because the work being done by the ANPs is as the Deputy describes. It is a key part of the delivery of healthcare. It is keeping people out of our hospitals as well. It is a very valued role in the health service. We have a piece of work under way in the Government across a variety of Departments, liaising with our colleagues in the Department of public expenditure and reform. The Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is fully committed to this as are we. We will keep the Deputy updated. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan  Another Thursday and another question on rare diseases. The Minister might want to answer this. Last Sunday, I was on my way to the Cork-Offaly match and I heard an interview between Paul Cunningham and a member of the National Centre for Pharmacoeconomics, NCPE. To say I was very disappointed with what I heard would be an understatement. I raised it at the health committee yesterday with Department of Health officials and the HSE. The programme for Government is explicit. It contains a provision for an early access scheme. The Minister has said it is something she is going to progress over the lifetime of the Government. The political class has endorsed it, as has the Department of Health, but for some reason somebody on the NCPE thinks they can have a contrarian opinion. The last time I checked that person was a civil servant. He is supposed to serve the State and implement the policies this Government decides are worthy of implementation. If the Minister heard the interview, what is her opinion on it? If she has not, I encourage her to listen to it. Does she think it is appropriate that somebody would express an opinion contrary to what the Government has decided to do? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)  I thank the Deputy. He is right. Not only is an early access programme a commitment in the programme for Government but my officials are already working on designing it and it will be implemented by the HSE. I also acknowledge the role of the NCPE and the independence that is important to preserve and protect. I appreciate radio interviews are one thing but we will strike a balance between protecting the independence and integrity of scientists and listening to them and ploughing on with Government policy that is well endorsed by this House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Callaghan  With between 4,500 and 5,000 Irish teachers now teaching abroad, it is really important that we facilitate any teachers who would like to return home to do so. I was recently contacted by a constituent who is teaching abroad and wants to return home but has raised serious concerns about how teaching experience is recognised on return which has a direct impact on their salary scales. There seems a clear inconsistency between primary teachers who often have their experience recognised while post-primary teachers do not. Likewise, experience is accepted by some schools but not in high-quality international schools that teach programmes like the international Baccalaureate. That means two teachers working side-by-side abroad can be treated very differently on their return with many forced to start again at the bottom of the salary scale despite their significant experience. This runs the risk of discouraging teachers who want to come home from coming home. Will the T\u00e1naiste commit to reviewing this system to ensure a fair and consistent approach to the recognition of teaching experience? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  As the Deputy said, there is an incremental credit scheme that does allow teachers to claim credit for other years of relevant service, whether within the EU or outside it. However, there are some issues the Deputy is right to raise in relation to schools which may not necessarily satisfy the current required criteria and then the service of the school cannot be considered towards that incremental credit.  The service of the school cannot then be considered toward that incremental credit. I think that is the nub of the issue we hear time and again. Through the Teachers Conciliation Council there is a subcommittee that looks at incremental credit. The teacher unions have now lodged a claim concerning the recognition of private post-primary teaching service outside the EU as well. The Department is examining this as part of the budgetary cycle. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Naughton, to engage with the Deputy directly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  I raise the commitment in the programme for Government to reach a 19:1 student-teacher ratio in our primary schools. In my area, Scoil Maelruain national school was stripped of a teacher because the school was one student short for the coming year. This resulted in four classes being turned into three, with numbers of 29 and 30 students. This flies in the face of the commitment and pushes the class size to the limit. The T\u00e1naiste knows that society and schools have changed. Children and pupils are more transient and not fixed to an area because of the housing crisis, through no fault of their own. This is placing stress on schools as regards class sizes because teachers are allocated for the year based on the rolls on a set day. Another school in my area lost out because Ukrainian families were moved to the west in the middle of September. This is practical stuff. Will the Government consider introducing flexibility in the allocation of teachers beyond the current cut-off of 30 September? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  The Government is committed to continuing to reduce class sizes. We have seen a significant reduction in pupil-teacher ratios over the past several years. However, the Deputy is right to say it is not an exact science, and I will not pretend it is. It has to be at a point in time. There are opportunities for schools to appeal, put forward information with regard to special circumstances or show they expect that numbers will grow again in the following year. I am not sure it is entirely as blunt an instrument as might be suggested. However, I will ask the Minister, Deputy Naughton, to give consideration to the point the Deputy has made.  On the point about Ukrainians, we have tried to minimise the movement of Ukrainian students during the school year. It has not always been possible, but we are conscious of the fact that when kids are settled in a school it is important to try to minimise that disruption. I will ask the Minister to come back to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  Family resource centres around the State do fantastic work but are under significant pressure due to rising costs and increasing demands on their services. The level of core funding is simply not keeping pace with their escalating overheads. Portlaoise and Mountmellick family resource centres are providing vital services to families that are making a real difference with services, including parenting support, youth intervention, early-year preschool services, counselling and a whole lot more. The centre in Harper's Lane in Portlaoise is providing 114 preschool places alone. However, without an increase in the forthcoming budget, family resource centres will be limited to crisis-driven reactive responses instead of more effective early interventions. The core operational budget for these centres is \u20ac180,000 per annum. It is simply not enough to pay three full-time staff. While I know there will be a lot of asks in the forthcoming budget, without these centres there will be a lot more costs. I ask the T\u00e1naiste to ensure they receive a substantial increase in core funding. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I accept that the return on investment in family resource centres is extremely good. I met with the one in Greystones recently and the national organisation came to see me also. It is due to come to see me for a pre-budget meeting in the autumn as well. Being truthful, over the past number of years, we have been trying to balance core funding for existing centres with trying to fill in the map because there are quite a number of communities where there have not been family resource centres. My colleague, Deputy Carrigy, has been making the case for Longford for a significant period. There has been that balance between new centres and making sure we are adequately funding existing centres. We have to check we get that balance right. I look forward to meeting the national group and if the Deputy sends me details on Portlaoise and Mountmellick I will engage with him on it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  This weekend, tens of thousands of people will march through the streets of Dublin for Dublin Pride. Dublin Pride is a really good party, but it is also a protest and a call for progress. Sadly, under the T\u00e1naiste's leadership, we have not seen any progress. We are now consistently ranked 14th in Europe in terms of LGBT human rights and policy protections year after year. I will give one example, namely, the commitment to ban conversion therapy and conversion practices. It was included in the programme for Government in 2020 and recommitted to in 2025, but we have not seen progress. Research commissioned by the Government describes conversion therapy as traumatising, horrendous and anxiety provoking. One person said, \"It left me with trauma, from which I am still attempting to heal, it destroyed my self worth \u2026 and my health.\" The College of Psychiatry describes it as unethical, harmful and not supported by evidence. Eight other EU states have already legislated and six years after a commitment, we are still waiting. When are we going to get this legislation? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Rice. As he said, Pride is a celebration and a protest, but it is also a public statement of intent about the importance of quality and inclusion. When I was Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade I met all of our diplomats in Dublin Castle and made the point that we have to live up to our own values test, and our values test is simple. If you are whispering something that you used to say loudly and proudly, you are not passing the Irish values test. There is a chilling effect at the moment. There are people who want us to shut up and be quiet about equality issues. We should not do that. Yesterday, I and the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, the Taoiseach, several other Government Ministers, including the Minister for equality, Deputy Foley, met with LGBTQI+ organisations in the Sycamore Room. We had a good conversation about the progress that had been made, particularly with section 232 of the assisted human reproduction Act, commenced by the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill in recent weeks. I share the Deputy's view and his description of conversion therapy. I am sorry I do not now have a direct answer to the question as to when that action will be taken, but I will engage with relevant Government colleagues and come back to him directly. We should seek to do this quickly together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Albert Dolan  The T\u00e1naiste will be well aware of the case of Carrabane National School in east Galway. I have no doubt that multiple representations have been made to him about it. While I do not expect him to have an answer today as to what the case is, I want to highlight the frustration that exists among the school community. Two months ago, I and all of the other public representatives in east Galway attended a public meeting at Carrabane National School. On the night, Councillor Moegie Maher had a letter from the Minister, Deputy Naughton, confirming that this project would break ground in 2026. We have now reached the summer and still have not heard the outcome of the tender process. All I ask is that the T\u00e1naiste engage with the Minister, if possible, and revert to the Galway East representatives as to the status of Carrabane National School. I would be grateful for that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank Deputy Dolan. I will certainly do that and speak with the Minister, Deputy Naughton, about that issue today and come back to Deputy Dolan and the Galway East representatives. I know Councillor Moegie Maher well and I will be in trouble if I do not go back to him too. As the Deputy knows, we have made the decision to significantly increase the funding for the Department of education. We also made a significant capital allocation and may make more in the time ahead because a lot of schools are stuck in stage 2B and we want to move them on. I will certainly make sure we see progress on Carrabane National School, and I will talk to the Minister, Deputy Naughton, today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  A childcare facility in Knocklyon in my constituency was recently taken over a by a new provider, which was recently bought by a UK group in a deal worth \u20ac75 million. Since the facility was taken over, there have been numerous room closures. Parents have effectively been stranded without childcare with no notice. The services have taken away flexibility in terms of reduced hours over the summer or attending part time in after-school care. The services are getting worse because they are now being run in the interests of the owners' pockets, and parents are afraid that this facility will withdraw from core funding. Obviously, the fee freeze announced in June will not apply to providers that have withdrawn. Parents have no option but to pay because childcare spaces are so scarce in the area. What is the Government going to do for those parents who are genuinely suffering because of a commercialised and for-profit childcare model? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  We will publish a roadmap on how we create the childcare system I think everybody in this House wants. We had a good meeting of the Cabinet committee on this in recent weeks. Fees are one element, and we have a commitment to get to \u20ac200 per child per month in the lifetime of the Government. However, fees without access will only frustrate parents. We have increased the childcare budget to the largest ever, at \u20ac1.5 billion, which is up by 12% on last year. That is the highest ever level of State investment. I take the Deputy's point about private for-profit, but we are now seeing for the first time public money being used to deliver public facilities. The Deputy can expect to see that roadmap from the Government around budget time, where we need to move a number of things in parallel. The one that often gets attention is when are we getting to the \u20ac200. We are committed to getting to that in the lifetime of the Government, but we have to move the other streams alongside that, which I think is at the core of the Deputy's question. If he sends me the details of the Knocklyon case, I will have the Minister, Deputy Foley, come back to him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  St. Vincent's special school in Lisnagry, County Limerick, has been without a routine dental service for months. It has been the bones of a year. The specialist dental post is still vacant. These are students who cannot tolerate routine dental examinations. There is a student who cannot attend school at the moment because she has large cavities in her back teeth, and she has to get these teeth removed. The waiting list for Nenagh is over a year. A lot of these children are on restricted diets. I have been in contact with the Minister's office about this.  If this situation is not resolved, the child could miss up to 18 months at school. She is not the only child at St. Vincent's who currently has these issues. Children with additional needs are being failed in many ways, but to see a child unable to attend school for up to 18 months due to a lack of dentistry is beyond comprehension. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  I have not seen that individual representation. The Deputy might give me the name on my way out of the House, and I will take care of it this afternoon. The Deputy is right. We have a programme for a two-year intervention in HSE dental services to make sure that the broad child catch-up programme is happening in schools. Of equal importance is the specialist dental service, particularly for children with disabilities, and we will have a programme of additional surgeries to focus on that. I will be announcing that in the coming weeks. I have a little work to do yet with the Irish Dental Association, but I am very aware of that. If the Deputy gives me the details of the individual case, I will have it sorted. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"James-O'Connor.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James O'Connor  I raise the issue of the new community nursing unit in Youghal, a 60-bed unit comprising two 25-bed blocks and, in addition, a ten-bedroom dementia care unit. This is very much needed in Youghal as part of the renewal of our infrastructure, particularly the replacement of the Cois Abhainn building and also Youghal Community Hospital. I would like to ask about the business case. The T\u00e1naiste and the Minister for Health are here representing the Government. Can they find out whether this is being completed? We were told it would go to tender for the award of a construction contract in the first half of 2026. As we are at the turn of the month, I would appreciate an update on the position for the coming months. I thank the Minister for her exceptional work and support regarding the local projects that have been advanced in recent months. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill  We are trying to focus on stepdown facilities and community nursing units, and we will be opening units in Letterkenny and Sligo later in the year. I would push back on the situation in the south west at the moment. I notice there were people on trolleys in Cork University Hospital in recent days while there were vacant beds in Mallow. We have made a very significant investment to increase that from 37 beds to 96 beds, yet there were still vacant beds in Mallow while there were people on trolleys in Cork University Hospital. The Deputy will forgive me if I am not racing to advance additional infrastructure in the south west until they make sure they manage the resources they have more effectively. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy  The first meeting of the board of trustees of the new family resource centre in Longford takes place next Monday. I put on record my thanks to Veronica Brennan, the chair, and the rest of my fellow members of the steering committee who worked on this project for the last couple of years.  The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Drugs Use recently published its final report containing a wide-ranging series of recommendations on how Ireland should respond to drug use and addiction recovery, including proposals on decriminalisation, treatment services, prevention, family supports and community safety. Understandably, there will be different views on some of these recommendations. Will the T\u00e1naiste outline how the Government intends to respond to the committee report? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I am delighted to hear of the progress with the family resource centre.  We need to be very careful here. Everybody wants to see people who have a drug addiction get access to healthcare - 100%. We are all very clear on that, and it has been the clear direction of travel in the Department of Health for many years. Everybody wants to see anybody who is involved in criminality and gangland criminality banged up, taken off our streets and met with the full rigour of the law. However, there is a group in the middle that we are not talking nearly enough about, and it is really annoying me. There is a group of people who are not addicted to drugs and not involved in gangland crime, but they are facilitating it by snorting coke, popping pills and smoking drugs. They are often in middle Ireland, or whatever we want to call middle Ireland. I do not support any idea that we would suggest that behaviour is appropriate. In my constituency or somewhere else, people might buy illegal drugs and not realise or care that they are funding absolute misery, criminality, threats to children's lives and everything else in other communities.  We need to be very careful here. We need to listen to the Garda and the Irish Medical Organisation. There are a number of complex issues. We will absolutely help people in relation to drug addiction, 100%, and absolutely lock up the gangland criminals. However, the gangland criminals exist because people are going around, taking illegal drugs and thinking it is a consequence-free activity, when it is bringing misery to many parts of society. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor D. McGuinness  I raise the situation of Kilrossanty National School in County Waterford. It is a rural DEIS school that is set to lose a teacher in September based on an enrolment snapshot taken at the end of last September that no longer reflects reality. The school had 102 pupils on that day in September 2025, but several more pupils joined the school after that snapshot. It has 111 enrolled for the coming year, well above the threshold, yet it is still losing a teacher based on that snapshot. This will mean class sizes of up to 31 in multigrade groupings, including three classes in one room with one teacher, and that includes children with additional educational needs. The school has appealed.  This points to a wider problem. Across Waterford and the State, schools are under pressure, and rural schools are at risk. One has closed in County Waterford, others are overcrowded and many lack staff. Does the T\u00e1naiste accept that relying on that one snapshot is not a good way to do business or make an assessment, and that the fixed reference date is no longer fit for purpose? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I accept that there can be rigidity, but I also balance that with the fact that there has to be some system in place. Is there a better way of doing it? I am open to considering that. I believe there are appeals mechanisms, and an understanding is meant to exist in the system. If the Deputy sends me the details of the school in his constituency, I will ask the Minister, Deputy Naughton, to come back to him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel McCarthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Noel-McCarthy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Noel McCarthy  I speak today on behalf of the pupils, teachers and parents of Carrigtwohill school campus in east Cork. The three new school buildings, Carrigtwohill Community College, Scoil Chl\u00edodhna and Scoil Mhuire Naofa, were opened in 2023. These schools have the most modern facilities but, unfortunately, do not have a green area for recreation. However, there is a green area immediately adjacent to the schools and owned by the Department of education. Planning permission has been granted by Cork County Council for an entrance and access way, but no works have yet taken place. While the scope of works and costs have been provided, the Department has recommended that a more cost-effective solution be considered. I am unsure why this could possibly be. As such, it cannot be guaranteed that the area will be made available by September, almost three years after the schools opened. I ask the T\u00e1naiste to engage directly with the Minister and her Department to ensure this green area is made available as soon as possible for the September back-to-school period. These are great facilities. The issue is there to be resolved. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I know it is one he has been working on for some time. The Carrigtwohill school campus project is the largest single school building project ever undertaken by the Department of education, and it will serve a school community of about 2,400 pupils. The Department tells me that it has had a positive and productive engagement with the three schools and the patrons through all stages of the project, and it will continue to support the schools on the new school campus. The project was completed towards the end of 2023, with a 1,000-pupil post-primary school, Carrigtwohill Community School, and two 24-classroom primary schools, Carrigtwohill Community National School and Scoil Mhuire Naofa. It includes 14 classes and three projects for children with special educational needs, three general purpose, GP, areas, a PE hall and 13 ball courts in total.  I am aware of this issue of the lack of a green space, given that Deputy McCarthy has told me about it. I understand the school has now sought to use a green area that forms part of the site. It is not suitable as a formal playing pitch because it is an attenuation basin under the flood management system, but the Department wants to work with the schools to see if they can get it as an informal recreation space. I undertake to work intensively with Deputy McCarthy and the Minister, Deputy Naughton, to try to get that in place for the new school year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peter 'Chap' Cleere  Like previous speakers, I raise the issue of teacher losses. I am asking for the intervention of the T\u00e1naiste regarding Our Lady of Lourdes National School in Slieverue, County Kilkenny, where the incoming junior infants class for September 2026 is expected to consist of 34 children taught by a single teacher following the loss of a teaching post. The school has successfully operated smaller junior infants classes in recent years. As the T\u00e1naiste knows, research consistently shows that the greatest benefits of smaller classes come in the very early years of education. Despite these concerns, the school's appeal to retain the teaching post was, unfortunately, unsuccessful. I ask the T\u00e1naiste to urgently engage with the Department of education to review this decision and explore any available mechanism to retain or restore the teaching resource needed to support these children. Every reasonable effort should be made to ensure that 34 junior infants are not required to spend their first year of school in a single class. It is obviously a national issue because I am the third and fourth speaker to raise a similar issue today. The intervention and help of the T\u00e1naiste would be much appreciated. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Simon Harris","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Simon-Harris.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The T\u00e1naiste  The Deputy is right. I always learn a lot, when I come in here on a Thursday, if a multitude of colleagues across the House are bringing up the same issue. I have to be blunt. We are increasing the number of teachers and SNAs working in our schools, we are increasing the number of schools that we have and we have a redeployment scheme in place. Obviously, we have to have criteria for the teaching allocations. That is all just true. We have seen the need to provide additional funding to the Department of education to meet a number of financial pressures that it has had. In relation to Our Lady of Lourdes National School, I will ask the Minister, Deputy Naughton, to provide guidance to the Deputy as to whether there are any other options or avenues open to that school. I will also ask her to come back to the Deputy directly. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 1.19 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 2 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Sitting suspended at 1.19 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_34","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/72","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/72\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026: Second Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026: Second Stage","counts":{"speechCount":15,"speakerCount":14},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_34","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications (Deputy Timmy Dooley)  I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\"  I am pleased to address the House on Second Stage of the Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill. As Deputies are aware, the main purpose of the Bill is to provide for a project-specific, bespoke consenting pathway for the strategic gas emergency reserve facility to be located at Cahiracon in County Clare. This will enable a development consent application to be submitted later this year, which is critical to achieving accelerated delivery of this project.  Before outlining the provisions of the Bill, I would like to speak on a number of key points relating to the development of the legislation. In March 2025, Government approved a State-led strategic gas emergency reserve. This is critical to securing Ireland's energy systems as we continue to transition to indigenous, clean renewable energy. Crucially, the strategic gas emergency reserve will also ensure Ireland's compliance with EU standards and regulation. A strategic gas emergency reserve is a State-owned gas storage facility that will provide the resilience required to support our energy transition. This State-led strategic reserve will store LNG for use only in the event of a disruption to gas supplies to protect Ireland's citizens, economy and reputation from the possibility of energy curtailments. It is not intended for commercial use and will not act as a new entry point for gas into the system. The final design will be scoped to provide sufficient supply to protect household and business customers in the event of a major disruption to subsea gas pipelines. Gas Networks Ireland will ensure appropriate contractual arrangements are in place to refill the floating storage and regassification unit throughout an emergency situation to provide consistent gas supplies via the floating storage and regassification unit for the duration required.  The introduction of bespoke legislation was agreed following advice from the Office of the Attorney General's to reduce the uncertainty of the timelines regarding planning decisions and to facilitate the request from Government to expedite delivery of the project. The ongoing phased commencement of the Planning and Development Act 2024 at this time prevents the project benefiting from the required expedited decision timeframe to deliver this project. The conventional planning route under the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, has been fully considered and it is proposed to disapply it given the need for an expedited decision timeframe necessary to deliver this project.  The legislation will allow for the next stage of development for the strategic gas emergency reserve. It is intended to submit the development consent application by the end of 2026 in order to achieve an accelerated project delivery timeline. It is intended to bring forward a memo for Government later this year requesting permission to draft the strategic gas emergency reserve (operational) Bill to provide for the operation of the strategic gas emergency reserve. This will be the substantive Bill addressing provisions related to the operation, use and cost of the reserve as well as a number of policy matters previously raised by Oireachtas Members.  The Bill contains 7 Parts and 38 sections, and I will give a brief overview of it now. Part 1 contains four sections containing standard legislative provisions that cover the Short Title of the Bill, commencement procedures, definitions of terms used in the Bill, a regulation-making power, as well as enabling the expenses of the Minister to be paid out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas.  Part 2 contains three sections relating to what comes within the scope of designated development. Section 5 provides for what constitutes \"designated development\" for the purposes of development and use of a strategic gas emergency reserve to be located at Cahiracon in County Clare. Sections 6 and 7 provide that the Planning and Development Act 2000, the Planning and Development Act 2024, and Regulation 2 of the European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats) Regulations 2011 are disapplied in relation to designated development, to facilitate the alternative consenting process set out in the Bill.  Part 3 contains four sections relating to the seeking of approval to carry out designated development. It provides for a mechanism for pre-application consultation. The required contents of an application are specified as well as the requirement to give public notice of an application and details of the public consultation procedure. It sets out who may submit an application for designated development under this procedure, being limited to Gas Networks Ireland or such other public bodies as may be prescribed.  Part 4 contains 17 sections relating to the environmental impact assessment and appropriate assessment procedures that will apply to an application for designated development. These assessments shall be carried out by An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la within specified, accelerated timelines. It provides for a period of 18 weeks for a decision to be made by An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la from receipt of an application to final decision. Time when An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la is waiting for a return of further information by the applicant will be disregarded towards this overall time period.  Part 5 contains three sections relating to the determination of an application for approval to carry out designated development. Part 6 provides for miscellaneous provisions relating to designated development granted approval under this bespoke process. Section 15 of the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 is disapplied to relevant bodies performing functions in relation to designated development. The Minister may also issue a direction to competent authorities responsible for the granting of relevant consents, to facilitate priority consenting of the project. The judicial review and access to justice provisions have been adapted from the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, retaining the well-tested framework that currently applies to a challenge to a planning decision in the courts.  Part 7 contains one section relating to a consequential amendment to the Environmental Protection Act 1992. I commend the Bill to the House and I look forward to the debate and the contributions from Members. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Energy security is one of the most fundamental responsibilities of any Government. It is the promise we will be able to keep the lights on and keep the country's energy system powered. In this increasingly volatile world, we are trying to meet our energy needs but the Government has utterly failed. What we are presented with is a rushed and flawed solution that is in danger of shifting the financial burden for the Government's failures onto ordinary households. The Government is rushing through the legislation without time for proper democratic oversight or scrutiny. The deadline for Committee Stage amendments was yesterday before Second Stage had been read. This is not about guaranteeing Irish energy security but about managing the failure of the Government to invest properly in offshore wind and to make the necessary progress to ensuring energy independence and energy security.  Despite being warned of the dangers of this for years, Ireland continues to rely on imports for approximately 80% of energy requirements, making us the fourth most fossil fuel import-dependent economy in the EU. We import nearly all of our oil and gas and over 80% of natural gas. In addition, under Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Ireland relies on fossil fuels to generate 81% of our energy requirements. This set-up was never going to deliver energy security. The risks were well flagged and vulnerabilities were well known, yet Fianna F\u00e1il and fine Gael did not make any progression.  For years the Government has failed to properly invest in indigenous renewable energy, and it has admitted this, failing to build the resilience of sufficient system. Now ordinary people have to step up. Instead of fixing the structural issues, the Bill doubles down on the same approach locking us further into fossil fuel dependency and charging the public. It is a fundamental breach of trust and families and workers are already struggling under the weight of the highest energy bills in Europe. We have more people owing on their bills for longer. They should not have to bankroll a Government that has failed to plan and invest and failed to protect our energy future.  The Government is supposed to act as a safety net for households and not the other way around. Ordinary people did not decide to leave Ireland dependent on imported gas, they did not fail to deliver on renewable energy and they certainly did not design an energy model that prioritises corporate demand over public need. Sinn F\u00e9in is clear there must be no increase in household energy bills to protect Ireland's energy security. Ordinary people must not foot the bill. We have introduced amendments to this effect and they go to the heart of fairness. We propose a legislative wording that prohibits the socialisation of costs across household and SME energy bills, which would mandate that the regulator carries out a full assessment of the impact on household bills and that the Minister would introduce measures to mitigate this.  I will turn to the changes the Bill proposes to our planning process. Unprecedented changes such as these require oversight, debate and scrutiny but the Minister of State has refused to engage on this. There are dangers associated with this potentially introducing further delays which could exacerbate the risks to Ireland's energy security.  If the public are being asked to consent, then the changes and impact must be made explicitly clear.  We wrote to the Minister of State and his officials to provide explicit clarification on the principal differences between the standard planning process for a strategic infrastructure development and-or a standard planning application under the Planning and Development Act 2024 and the Planning and Development Act 2000 and the alternative planning process as outlined. We have also requested this information be provided in advance of the remaining Stages, so that it can be properly scrutinised. I am waiting and hoping that it will be delivered before next Tuesday.  We have proposed an amendment to delete the disapplication of the planning Acts. Nobody here is arguing that Ireland\u2019s energy security should not be a priority. We have always said that it should be. Without those protections, however, we will never agree to rubberstamp any legislation to remove the safeguards without clarification and justification and robust safeguards. For example, this legislation fails to guarantee that the floating LNG facility will be explicitly and exclusively State-led. If it is truly strategic, then it should be State-led, publicly owned and delivered in the public interest. There should be no backdoor for commercial LNG. The legislation does state that Gas Networks Ireland, GNI, may apply to the Minister for approval but it does not explicitly rule out infrastructure being led by a commercial entity. Our amendments, therefore, will insist that any reserve should be fully State-led.  We are also moving to ensure that the reserve will only be used in genuine emergencies. We will define the reserve as for emergency use only, aligned with EU standards, and prevent its use for routine energy supply. Ongoing reporting will be required to ensure compliance. Without these protections, there is a real risk that the strategic reserve would become normalised and entrench gas dependency.  Our other amendments will ensure that such a facility is temporary, with a defined lifespan of ten years, subject to regular review every three years, has a decommissioning plan and is accompanied by independent assessments of whether it is necessary or proportionate and the best available option. If this is an emergency measure, then it should not become a permanent fixture by default. There is concern across the board that this could happen.  We are also seeking to reverse one of the elements of this Bill, which is the potential sidelining of community engagement. Our amendment will require meaningful public consultation, including access to information, impact assessments and public hearings, because communities in County Clare must not be cut out of decisions that affect them so profoundly.  We are also insisting on honesty about what is driving the energy crisis. Our amendments will require an independent assessment of the impact of data centres on energy demand and an analysis of whether this demand is driving the need for this reserve. We cannot have a situation where households pay more because the structural drivers of rising demand are left unaddressed.  We believe this Bill is flawed, unfair, regressive and makes ordinary people shoulder the potential costs. It risks locking us into further fuel dependency and prioritises the wrong interest. Our amendments are about protection. They are to protect households from higher bills, protect the public interest and protect our energy future because the simple truth is that we cannot absorb any more costs. We need a different approach to drive down costs and put the needs of citizens first. We will be opposing this Bill, and I urge the House to support our amendments that put fairness, accountability and the public good back at the centre of our energy policy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael have been in government for over a decade. They have had years to secure our energy future, yet they have failed. They have squandered our renewable potential and left us dangerously overexposed to volatile international markets and geopolitical conflict. We saw this during the invasion of Ukraine, and we are seeing it again now. Families and workers are left paying extortionate energy bills because this Government refused to plan.  Now, in a panic, it is asking us to spend \u20ac1 billion to fix a crisis of its own making. Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael cannot be trusted on energy security because they do not treat it as a public good; they treat it as a corporate commodity. Sinn F\u00e9in believes that the answer to Ireland\u2019s energy security must be State-led and guided by the public interest and not the corporate bottom line. This legislation is not fit for purpose. It disapplies the planning Act, strips local communities of their democratic rights and treats people with contempt. By removing normal planning safeguards, this Government is guaranteeing one thing: legal challenges and further delays.  The Bill rolls out the red carpet to commercial LNG. The 2023 energy security review recommended a State-led facility as a strategic reserve, and it set out specific conditions. This legislation ignores those conditions. It allows private commercial developers to bypass the rules to which everybody else must adhere. Why is this? It is to impress international developers and not to serve the Irish people. This Bill will hike up household bills. The estimated \u20ac60 million annual running costs will be socialised through a levy on energy bills. Ordinary workers and families are already struggling with the cost of living, and Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael want to add a new tax to their bills to pay for their failures. This is simply unacceptable.  The Government will tell us this is necessary for our N-1 gas reserve criteria but the reality is that we are in this position because this Government has failed to develop our indigenous renewable resources. Ireland has 640 GW of untapped offshore wind potential. How much of it has been delivered? The answer is zero. We actually have less now than we had 20 years ago, such is the level of incompetence.  The Government talks a big game but it is all hot air. Projects in the pipeline have not even broken ground. We are one of the most fossil fuel-dependent countries in Europe, importing 94% of our energy from fossil fuels. That is a strategic vulnerability, and this Government has entrenched it rather than fixed it. This move would further entrench it. Sinn F\u00e9in has a better vision. We want to achieve energy independence through renewables which are publicly-owned and community-owned, and serving the common good. We want to follow countries like Spain, Norway and Denmark, which insulated their citizens from crises through public investment.  If this facility must go ahead, then it must be strictly State-led, fully transparent and subject to democratic oversight. It must not be a backdoor for commercial LNG or an excuse to hike bills further. The State must lead and the people must come first. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin  This Bill is a damning indictment of this Government\u2019s failure to properly address our energy security, and this is absolutely essential in a functioning democracy. Two geopolitical events have landed and given us ample warning about the need for energy independence. Yet this is the Government's solution. It has done nothing else. The Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 and the American-Israeli war on Iran this year have shown us that we simply cannot continue to rely on imports to keep the lights on and our energy going. This is what is ultimately driving up the cost of our electricity bills, which are now the highest in Europe. A total of 80% of our energy is currently fuelled by imports. Realising that this is probably not the best way to guarantee energy security, the Government thinks this is a good idea to solve the problem. It is even more investment in fossil fuel and imported gas, and all to placate Trump. It is glaringly obvious to most people that the simple solution to our energy crisis issues is to invest in indigenous sources of energy, such as wind and solar, something that could have been ramped up immediately following the energy crisis in 2022. The Government failed to act then and this is the solution it has arrived at now.  The lack of intervention and meaningful attempts to try to get a handle on household bills means one in three is now in energy arrears. This is why Sinn F\u00e9in tabled amendments to the current Bill to ensure that ordinary people do not have to foot the bill for this daft attempt at protecting Ireland\u2019s energy security. It is the Government which has completely butchered our energy security. It is entirely its responsibility. Its solution is a double-edged sword, as proven by the two wars started by Russia and by America and Israel. Any form of gas that we import will be susceptible to market price shocks. An LNG terminal will be much the same. It will also further lock us into fossil fuel infrastructure and increase our emissions output.  This would come at a time when we are seeing some of the highest temperatures ever recorded. Just yesterday, France recorded its hottest day since records began in 1947, breaking the record of the previous day. As many as 40 people drowned in that country in the past few days as they tried to cool themselves down in the scorching heat. Today, we in Ireland expect to record historic highs in temperatures.  This must be a stark warning for us. We cannot keep going down the path of fossil fuels. Also, we cannot afford merely to develop our grid and ensure energy supply, as this Bill does, to keep data centres on stream.  As part of our amendments to the Bill, we ask that a fully independent assessment of the impact of data centres on energy demand and security be carried out. We cannot have a situation where households are asked to pay more, as they will be because of this Bill, while data centres suck up the energy that is vital to build the infrastructure we desperately need. As my colleague Deputy Pa Daly has previously outlined, we urge the Minister to consider the amendments put forward by Sinn F\u00e9in, support them and put the public good at the centre of our energy policy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  The incredible weather we are seeing across Europe and its significance are not going to be lost on anybody. France has recorded its hottest day, at 44.3\u00b0C. Tragically, at least 18 heat-related deaths have been seen in France and dozens of people have drowned as they tried to cool off. The UK had its hottest June day on record this month, at 36.1\u00b0C. We have seen red heat warnings issued across Europe. Indeed, here in Ireland it would appear we are seeing our hottest day on record.  It is clear that climate change is not something that is coming. It is not something that is going to be presented to us in the future. Climate change is here. Days like today really need to be warning signs for the Government because it has a very big job to do. That is not just to ensure that, as a country, we can adapt to the climate change that we are experiencing but also to do everything it can to stop it from getting worse and to work internationally in that regard.  Unfortunately, what we have seen from this Government is a rowing back when it comes to climate action and climate-action ambition. We have seen a repeated failure to meet targets, and even a failure to lay out the list of policies that would meet our 51% legal reduction target. Not once has the climate action plan specified enough policies to meet our targets. This is not even about implementing them. I am referring to the Government setting out what policies we need. Never once has the current or previous Government spelt out enough policies. That in itself is a very stark illustration that the Government is not taking this seriously enough.  The LNG facility has not just come upon us in the last week or two, the last month or two or, indeed, the last year. This discussion is happening because the current and previous Governments have failed to come to grips with our energy security and to put in place measures that will assist us to become energy independent. This LNG facility is a sort of emergency solution because all the hard work has not been done.  We have seen delay after delay regarding much of the major infrastructure we would need in order to deal with our emissions, but also to have a very strong renewable energy system. We have less offshore wind energy now than 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, we were a world leader in offshore wind. We had the Arklow Bank but that has been decommissioned. We have had delays in respect of our interconnectors. As I have raised repeatedly, I do not believe the Government has done enough when it comes to solar energy to make households resilient and to support people in this regard. I do not believe the Government has focused enough on battery storage and its potential. Over the past number of weeks, we have heard from some experts at meetings of the climate committee on the huge potential of, and the technological advances that have been made when it comes to, battery storage. Yet we have not had a Government that has focused on all those issues. Indeed, we have had a Government that has closed its eyes to the issue of demand management. At some stage, a tough decision is going to have to be made where we say we cannot afford to allow the continued incredible growth of large energy users like data centres, because that will ultimately make us more vulnerable when it comes to energy security. They are reliant on gas and they are pushing up our energy prices. They are the reason that we now apparently need the \u20ac1 billion LNG facility.  It is not to meet the needs of individual households or businesses, or people in hospitals or schools. It is not to meet those needs. The LNG facility is to ensure that if there is a problem with the interconnector or the gas line from Scotland, energy for the approximately 250 large corporates will be available. At some stage, we do have to start considering bringing our enterprise, climate and energy policies all together, because at the moment we are seeing far too much siloing of the issues.  The Government is in a position now where it is acknowledging there is a big problem, that we are at risk and that we need to come up with a solution. There are alternatives to what is being proposed. I really do not believe there has been enough examination of the alternatives. In the event that we lose connection with Scotland for a gas pipeline, which is highly unlikely but would be very problematic, what are the alternatives to the LNG facility? I really do not believe that has been given enough consideration.  I have spoken about demand management, battery storage, fast-tracking our interconnectors, district heating to provide heating to people, alternative fuels and requiring large corporates to have more alternative fuels on site. These have not been examined robustly enough. When I read through the energy security reports, it appears that the Government essentially got the answers it wanted from the questions put in the reviews. It is really important that the Government stall now. This is a major piece of infrastructure and it is costly. It will cost us \u20ac1 billion at least and it will be in place for many years. It will also be costly from an environmental perspective. The Minister of State needs to re-examine that. The Social Democrats have tabled amendments reflecting these views. We will be debating them when appropriate, but I ask that the Minister of State give serious consideration to looking at all the different pieces of the jigsaw and seeing whether there is a way that the various elements can be brought together to ensure we are energy resilient.  The other issue I want to raise with the Minister of State is one that very much surprised me. There is a general lack of trust in the Department and Government in this regard. I certainly was very sceptical and I was concerned that this legislation was a way of allowing for commercial LNG facilities to begin operating. When there was a pulling back on the fracked gas policy and when the Minister did not really engage on the planning issues in Shannon, my sense was that this was really a Trojan Horse to allow a commercial facility to operate. I do not know whether that is the case or not.  The one thing I have repeatedly raised with the Minister, and on which I have repeatedly received assurances from him, is that the LNG facility will be State-owned, State-led and not commercial, and that there will be sufficient guardrails in place to make sure that is the case.  I have had this back and forth with the Minister many times, as I did at committee. It has always been promised that it would be the case. I am worried as to why it was not mentioned in the Bill. The primary purpose of this LNG facility is to act as a risk-mitigation measure in a very limited fashion that can only be done by the State, run and managed by the State, and is not to increase our gas usage. That usage is to be very controlled. If that is the purpose of the facility, this why is that not stated in the Bill? It is not mentioned at all. I am sure the Minister of State will understand that it sets off alarms. It says to me that this process cannot be trusted. Now, when the Department or anyone makes any statements or comes forward with any advice, solutions or evidence, I and others are going to be questioning it because there is a fear that it is not being transparent. That is why the energy security, as the Department is looking at all the other measures, is also important. We want a transparent process. We want to ensure that the people who will be footing the bill for this \u20ac1 billion know why this has gone in and know that the Government looked at all these other measures and decided they were not going to work. It must be transparent. It is important that the Government gets that done.  I would like to make a similar point. I am hugely worried about the disapplication of the birds and habitat directive. As I said, there has been a rowing back on a lot of climate legislation. There has been fear that there would be a similar rowing back on legislation to protect biodiversity. There has certainly been a movement in Europe to do that so I was disappointed to see that also being applied in this Bill. I was also very surprised to see it because during pre-legislative scrutiny, we were told at that stage that we will not be exempting this facility from the habitats directive. That is what we were told in committee. Yet, this Bill disapplies the birds and habitats directive. That again comes back to the lack of trust about what the motives are here. That is another important consideration.  We have been far too slow in ensuring that Ireland can exist as an independent energy State. We have relied far too heavily on other countries to do the heavy lifting for us. We have not been innovative enough. We have really been quite lazy when it comes to our energy security and independence, and ensuring that we have an energy system that people in this country can afford. The lived experience of the people at the moment is that that is not the case. Ireland has the highest electricity prices. An official from the Department was in talking about the issue recently. The official was stressing that we have done so well when it comes to our renewable energies. We have but what are we doing with them? We are funnelling them back into these large corporates. The benefits from the renewables are not being felt by individuals and that is a problem. We want our citizens, domestic users and small businesses to have faith that when we move to a fossil fuel-free future, they will not be left behind. That is not happening because they are actually being left behind. Not only are they being left behind, they are having to foot the bill. They are footing the bill for data centres. They are going to be footing the \u20ac1 billion bill for this LNG facility that is only there to ensure that 250 large energy users can continue to operate if there is problem with the pipeline. Domestic users will be footing that bill. That not only has problems from an equity perspective. It is also a problem from a social and community perspective. We cannot allow people to feel that they are being left behind by this transition and that the people who are gaining the benefit and are being prioritised by this Government are the big boys and the big players. We want everybody to be able to benefit and to enjoy lower electricity prices and warmer homes. We want them to be energy independent. We want them to be able to drive electric vehicles and have solar panels on their homes. When they do need to access electricity or energy from the grid, we must ensure it is there at an affordable price. Unfortunately, the Government is far away from that at the moment.  However, it is not too late. There is now an opportunity to pause things and bring in that review. If the Government is so convinced that this LNG facility is the only answer to this energy security risk, it needs to spell it out for people. It should do the analysis and let everybody see it because it is costly and, as I said, not just financially but environmentally. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Clendennen  I welcome the Bill. It is legislation that we debated at length at the Joint Committee on Climate, Environment and Energy. As a member of the committee, I can say that we had open and frank encagement. Objectively, our goals are to be independent, secure and affordable and to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels but we also need to ensure that we have a backup policy in place.  I listened to some of the criticism about other projects taking too long to deliver and that we talk about them too much. On the other hand, we now want to talk about them further. There was pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill. It was to a shorter timeframe but we must highlight and emphasise that this is an emergency, this is a temporary measure and we need to ensure its delivery. Fundamentally, there is a responsibility on the State to ensure that we have security around our energy and that is the objective here, while also being cognisant of our client obligations.  This Bill came about as part of 17 actions highlighted by the Department's 2023 strategy, Energy Security in Ireland to 2030. I recently attended an EirGrid strategy launch where its representatives said that during the Covid-19 pandemic, demand was not peaking and we did not have the same level of economic activity that would result in spikes. However, since we have exited the pandemic, there is that additional demand and additional focus required to ensure investment. Considering current global volatility and international conflicts, how they weaponise energy supplies and how fragile global markets can be, we must have our own independence. In that context, it is unacceptable not to act when we can see clearly where our vulnerabilities lie. To that end, I support the Bill and the intentions behind it. This is an insurance policy for the State.  We also have a temporary energy generation facility at Shannonbridge in my constituency to ensure that we do not see mass blackouts. We must be fair and open to the public at large that we need that backup plan and energy security. We need a contingency in place to plan for the worst.  In terms of independence, we are going in completely the opposite direction when we talk about interconnectors. We cannot depend solely on our neighbours for our energy supply. We must have independence. That is another reason it is so important that we ensure this Bill proceeds.  To be fair to the debate at the committee, one of the items we debated comprehensively in terms of the provisions in the Bill was how we would allow development or operation by a commercial operator. Those concerns have been listened to, despite the shorter timeframe for pre-legislative scrutiny. Only public bodies will be prescribed by the Minister in relation to this operation.  If this is truly to be a strategic reserve, we need to prepare for the worst-case scenario and it must stay within the confines of State control as a result. We are seeing growing demand and growing economic activity and we need to ensure we proceed with this strategic gas emergency reserve in the form of the floating storage and regasification unit in Clare. It must be strictly an emergency reserve. It cannot become a backdoor for new commercial fossil fuel infrastructure, nor can it lead to an overall increase in our national gas consumption.  Our focus on the development of renewables must be steadfast. County Offaly has been to the fore. I hear other speakers here say we need to do more on renewables. Why do they not go back to look at their county development plans and outline more spatial areas for renewable development? That is what we did in Offaly and we have been successful with 30% of our landmass in the county. We are one of the highest producers of energy in the country. Rather than looking at national Government, Deputies should have a discussion at local government level to see how county development plans can be prepared and devised.  I cast my mind back to the national broadband plan and some of the commentary of the Opposition about that plan facing catastrophic failure and it being reckless to proceed with it. It is the same song with a different tune today. We need this. We need to ensure we remain competitive, that we see digital and tech advancements and that we keep our position on the global stage in attracting employment and making sure this is a good place to invest, work and live. This is not a decision of either-or when it comes to large energy users or homes. It has to be that they work concurrently and for the right reasons.  We cannot pause this. We have to proceed with it. It is an important Bill. It sends the right message that Ireland is working towards renewables, but is also working towards energy security. I commend the Minister of State on bringing the Bill to the House and look forward to seeing it pass. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I sincerely believe that from a climate perspective, this is perhaps the most regressive legislation produced by the Government. Any legislation or infrastructure that requires us to overturn a ban on fracked gas is just inherently bad for the climate.  I heard the Minister of State on \"Morning Ireland\" this morning and I sympathise with his desire to enhance our energy security, particularly in the current context. We all understand the vulnerabilities Ireland faces. We know the risks posed by geopolitical instability and our over-reliance on imported fossil fuels. Equally, we know the importance of ensuring households can heat their homes, hospitals can operate, businesses can function and that our entire energy system remains stable in times of crisis. None of us dispute that. Energy security matters, and there are lessons to be learned from the events of recent years when it comes to our energy system and energy security but it appears, based on this effort to import even more fossil fuel, that the Government is learning precisely the wrong lessons.  I would absolutely support genuine measures to strengthen Ireland's energy security. We raised these during pre-legislative scrutiny of this Bill. Other Deputies have raised them in this House today already. They include investment in renewables, energy storage, interconnection, demand management and grid improvements. This is the direction of travel we want to see, if we are serious about energy security and our climate commitments. Look at Spain. Following Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine, it rapidly scaled up investment in renewables and it is now largely insulated from the recent fossil fuel price shocks because it is not importing quite so much oil and gas. This is the sort of effort we want to see here and I would gladly support the Government in such efforts.  What I and the Labour Party cannot support is legislation that risks locking us into greater fossil fuel dependence, while simultaneously weakening planning safeguards, diluting climate accountability and concentrating an extraordinary amount of power in the hands of a Minister. It is frankly ludicrous that the plan the Government has landed on to strengthen our energy security is to import more harmful and increasingly volatile fossil fuels. I would have thought recent events might at least have given pause for thought. We were talking about having to ration oil and gas just a few months ago. The reality that is becoming increasingly apparent, and which the Government is refusing to accept, is that strengthening our energy security and continuing to rely on imported fossil fuels are incompatible.  As I have said on a number of occasions, the best and perhaps only way to genuinely secure our energy supply into the future is to urgently and significantly scale up our renewable generation and, importantly, our storage capacity. We have the potential to achieve genuine energy sovereignty and, crucially, we have the potential to do so from clean sources. The Minister of State could have brought forward a Bill that would inject much-needed urgency into the deployment of renewables, particularly offshore wind. He could have brought forward a Bill to speed up the necessary works that need to be done on our ports so they can handle offshore wind turbines, or he could have prioritised the long-awaited marine protected areas legislation to ensure the necessary environmental safeguards are in place. He would certainly have my support in doing so.  Instead of seeking to speed up the deployment of renewables, the Government is further entrenching expensive, harmful and unreliable fossil fuels in our system the supply of which, at the end of the day, is largely out of our control. We fundamentally cannot reduce our dependence on fossil fuels by importing more of them. This will lock us into fossil fuel use for decades and the infrastructure contemplated here - offshore moorings, the onshore terminal, pipeline connection to the existing gas network - represents capital investment with a multi-decade operational lifespan. There is a structural tension with statutory climate commitments that require a trajectory to net zero by 2050 and which include carbon budgets.  In our pre-legislative scrutiny report, the Oireachtas climate committee recommended a sunset clause be included in the Bill with a clear phase-out mechanism and explicit decommissioning requirements. All of that is absent. Sometimes I wonder why we bother. There is no sunset clause, no legislated end date and no statutory pathway towards closure of the facility. There is no requirement the facility cease operations once particular energy security or renewable generation benchmarks are met. While the Government presents this facility as a sort of temporary, emergency piece of infrastructure, there are virtually no safeguards against it becoming a permanent feature of our energy system. This is where the lack of trust in the Government's plans for this facility other Deputies have spoken about comes from. I and other members of the Opposition have submitted amendments to give effect to our pre-legislative scrutiny recommendations and I hope the Minister of State will genuinely consider these on Committee Stage.  The Minister of State is bringing forward this Bill on the back of an energy security review, but the landscape has changed completely since that review was carried. Even prior to the present fossil fuel crisis, during pre-legislative scrutiny, the committee heard extensive evidence suggesting the assumptions made when the review was conducted around demand, security risks, renewable deployment, storage technologies and so on, had evolved considerably in the meantime and the committee report recommended a new review be carried out on that basis. That recommendation has also been ignored.  Let us talk about the cost. It has been estimated that the LNG terminal will cost just shy of \u20ac1 billion over the next decade. How will that be paid for? It will not be through higher prices levied against large energy users like data centres. Last week, the Labour Party brought forward a motion calling on the Government to make data centres pay their fair share, but it was voted down. Ordinary household bill payers, who are already being fleeced, will foot the bill for this. The committee made several recommendations on the cost burden of the facility. The first recommendation of the report says the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, should have to carry out an assessment of the impact on household bills and justify the socialisation of LNG costs across households and small businesses. There is a also a recommendation that costs be weighted towards large energy users rather than households and another that an overall cost-benefit analysis be conducted. Again, none of these feature in the Bill. No protections for consumers against higher bills are included in the proposed law.  I would like to know whether any assessment has been carried out on the impact the recent crisis in the fuel markets has had on the Government's cost estimate. The European benchmark price for LNG soared by as much as 60% in the days following the start of Trump and Netanyahu's illegal war on Iran, after the shutdown of a major LNG facility in Qatar.  God knows when that war is actually going to come to an end and presumably the current extreme level of volatility is not priced into the previous cost estimate. The likelihood is the price we end up paying for this terminal over the next decade will far exceed \u20ac1 billion. This underscores the irresponsibility of going ahead with this proposal. We simply cannot secure our energy supply by further exposing ourselves to price shocks like this. We are already vulnerable to an increasingly unstable geopolitical arena and ordinary households and commuters are paying the price. Charging ahead with the introduction of even more fossil fuels to Ireland will only make matters worse.  One of the things that has frustrated me most in the conversation on energy security and this particular proposal is that energy insecurity and this LNG terminal are presented in binary terms as if it was a simple choice between building LNG infrastructure and energy insecurity, which I do not accept. There are alternatives, some of which I have mentioned, that strengthen security while simultaneously reducing emissions and that reduce our fossil fuel dependence rather than increase it. These alternatives have already been demonstrably successful elsewhere in Europe and I have already referred to Spain. It is incredibly frustrating this is being presented as our only option.  This Bill goes well beyond just being an energy security matter. It seeks to bypass not just our climate laws but also our planning laws which, funnily enough, were presented as the Minister's magnum opus in his previous brief. Sections 6 and 7 disapply both the Planning and Development Act of 2000 and the Planning and Development Act of 2024 to designated development carried out under an approval granted under section 29, which itself concentrates decision-making power in the hands of the Minister. Planning consent processes under those Acts would ordinarily require consideration of national planning policy, including the national planning framework and any climate-related material considerations. Their disapplication removes that layer of scrutiny entirely and channels decision-making exclusively to the Minister. We saw a similar arrangement in the passenger cap Bill earlier this week. It is true An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la has to carry out an environmental impact assessment and an appropriate assessment which the Minister must consider but he must also consider \"the urgent need to ensure and protect the security of gas supply in the State\". It is pretty obvious the latter will be given precedence.  Regrettably, despite the current extreme hot weather warnings and our abysmal record on decarbonisation, there is yet again no urgency when it comes to the climate. It is quite clear the only urgency the Government considers is facilitating more imported fossil fuels via an LNG terminal or essentially unrestricted additional flights from Dublin Airport. There is no real statutory requirement on the face of section 29 of the Bill for the Minister to give reasons for departing from, or accepting, environmental assessments beyond a few generalities. With this Bill the Government is trying to ram through approval of a hugely damaging piece of infrastructure by creating a bespoke planning route unavailable to other projects and certainly not ones that would benefit us from a climate and decarbonisation perspective. Like the passenger cap Bill, this is a significant departure from normal planning practice. It is a departure several stakeholders raised concerns about during pre-legislative scrutiny at the climate committee. Nobody is claiming our planning system is perfect - far from it - but public confidence depends on decisions being made through transparent and independent processes. When Government proposes to remove a project from the ordinary planning framework and place final authority directly in the hands of a Minister, it has a duty to demonstrate such extraordinary powers are absolutely necessary. I am not convinced it has done so.  The Bill goes further still. For the third time this term and the second time this week, the Government is proposing we abandon section 15 of the climate Act which requires public bodies to perform their functions in a manner consistent with national climate objectives and climate policy. Disapplying it removes a legally-operative constraint that would otherwise require those bodies to weigh climate considerations in discharging their statutory functions. This is a deliberative legislative choice to insulate the project from climate scrutiny at the decision-making level. By consistently disapplying section 15 when it is politically inconvenient, the Government is rendering it effectively meaningless but it exists for a reason. Climate and environmental considerations are not an optional extra. The climate crisis is quite literally existential and section 15 of the climate Act more generally is the legal framework through which we seek to meet our obligations. When Government starts carving out exemptions from climate legislation for fossil fuel infrastructure, it raises serious questions about the credibility of our commitment to our climate goals. If our obligations can be set aside whenever they become inconvenient, what confidence can the public have that climate legislation means what it says?  This issue featured prominently during pre-legislative scrutiny. Several witnesses voiced concerns about this provision, which will effectively deem LNG infrastructure compatible with our climate laws regardless of the emissions impact. Recommendation 13 of the pre-legislative scrutiny report stated \"The Bill should explicitly state that the Strategic Gas Emergency Reserve will be required to comply with Section 15 obligations under the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015\". The Bill does the exact opposite. The recommendations in that report were agreed on a cross-party basis. There were some recommendations that did not make it in because we voted against them and the Government voted them down but this report was agreed across parties. To see it ignored so thoroughly is very depressing.  This is the second aggressively anti-climate Bill we have seen from this Government this week alone. The Government is telling people that taking climate change and our biodiversity crisis seriously was a luxury of a previous era and something that is now preventing progress. I fundamentally disagree with that line of thinking. The climate catastrophe facing us requires progress but it is a different kind of progress to the one this Government is currently offering. There is huge opportunity for our country in tackling our climate crisis. There are huge numbers of new jobs to be created, new industries to be established and new futures to be forged. This Government can and should be treating decarbonisation and our climate targets with the same urgency it is treating the delivery of this LNG reserve, the removal of the Dublin Airport cap and the provision of critical infrastructure.  The Government is going to guillotine debate on both this Bill and the Dublin Airport cap next week. In the Labour Party, we have a vision for a different kind of Ireland which is a fairer, better future-facing country but the proposals and Bills being put forward by this Government lack ambition for that different kind of Ireland and a different world. This Government is all about simply continuing the status quo and going back to doing things the same way we always have done, that is, captured by fossil fuel interests. Those of us who want this to change are called Luddites. The guardrails put in place by the previous Government to finally force this State and its governments to face up to our climate obligations are being systematically dismantled. I, the Labour Party and others in opposition will continue to push this Government to live up to its responsibilities and to give some hope to our future generations, who badly need it. We will be putting forward numerous amendments to this Bill and I look forward to debating them in the House in the limited time that is being given. I really hope the Government will take them seriously and integrate as many of them as possible into the legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  I am pleased to speak on this Bill, which I support. Recent events in the Middle East have underscored the necessity of this Bill. The energy crisis caused by the conflict in the Middle East has seen record price hikes but, more importantly, raised questions over Ireland's energy security. This is an issue that I have highlighted on several occasions in the House in this term and the previous one.  We are an island at the end of the European supply line. We have no meaningful buffer and no gas storage. We are the only country in the European Union in that position. When a shock comes, it reaches us very quickly and it hits hard, so this Bill matters to us. The State-led strategic gas reserve in the form of a floating storage and regasification unit to be located on the Shannon Estuary, is a sensible, welcome and necessary measure. It will provide backup for our electricity supply at moments of low renewable output and it gives us a cushion in the event of a serious disruption to supply. I particularly welcome that it is designed as a temporary, State-owned, emergency-only facility. The Minister repeatedly said this was the plan. The scaremongering and disinformation we have heard has been disappointing but not surprising. The proposed structure matters. It reduces the risk of stranded assets, does not stimulate additional gas demand and it is compatible with our binding climate targets. This is energy security and climate responsibility working together, not against one another.  I also welcome the accelerated consenting framework in the Bill. The conventional planning route would have delivered this around 2031 and we cannot wait until then. The bespoke process here retains the essentials, namely, the environmental impact assessment, the appropriate assessment and public consultation, but within defined timelines. That is the right balance.  That is the right balance. It reflects a Government that has learned the hard lesson that infrastructure delayed is, too often, infrastructure denied. I want to be clear that this reserve is a safety net. It is not a strategy. A reserve is what we draw down in an emergency. It is not what keeps the lights on year after year.  I will use my remaining time to speak about the bigger picture. If the recent crisis has taught us anything, it is that we need to be far more ambitious about our indigenous supply. Corrib, which has served us well, is reaching the end of its productive life. When it goes, our domestic gas production goes with it and our import dependency becomes near total at precisely the wrong moment. I have long argued, including during my time on the climate action committee in the previous D\u00e1il, that we are dangerously exposed. I want to see us extend the productive life of the Corrib infrastructure where it is feasible and responsible to do so. The existing infrastructure off the Mayo coast is a national asset. There are indigenous prospects within tie-back range of it that could materially reduce our reliance on imported gas. That is gas that arrives with a carbon footprint many times higher than anything we would produce ourselves. It makes no environmental or strategic sense to shut down our cleaner production only to import dirtier gas through a single pipeline from another jurisdiction.  This is not a choice between fossil fuels and renewables; it is both, sequenced properly. I want to see us go faster on solar and far faster on offshore wind. The Minister of State is aware of my promotion of those renewables. Our offshore wind potential is among the best in Europe, but we have been far too slow to capture it. Ultimately, the renewable transition is the destination, but we will need a bridging supply to get there safely. We should be honest with people about that, rather than pretending otherwise.  I will mention households because all of this is abstract to families and households worried about heating bills. Oil prices have eased back in recent weeks from their crisis peak, and that relief must be passed on at the pump and on the bill. It cannot be absorbed quietly into margins. I ask the Minister of State to ensure the regulator and relevant authorities are watching this closely. Looking to the winter ahead, the Government must act to protect the most vulnerable. I ask that we increase the fuel allowance in the budget and seriously examine a further energy credit for households, particularly those in need. People have been through a challenging number of months and certain households will need support as we enter this winter.  With all that said, this is a Bill that is long overdue. The energy supply report that was published was referred to earlier. We have to use that as the basis. Any more time given to this will be time delayed to such a strategic infrastructural piece that this country needs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  I support this important Bill. Often, Government TDs assume things will go ahead and Ministers will lead the charge, but it is important that we stand behind them and explain the benefits.  When I was a councillor, I saw infrastructure in small, local ways, such as local bridges, roads or maybe a burst water pipe. In here, however, we are looking at the national issues. Coming into the national Parliament, we are so much more conscious of what is going on internationally. Deputy Devlin spoke about how energy has become key to the national conversation, but it is also key to the worldwide conversation. We often read about how energy is the key to national autonomy. If a country does not have access to energy, it is at risk of compromising its freedom. Obviously, I am not saying we are compromising our freedom but, at the same time, we need to ensure that we have opportunities for everyone. That is what this Bill is allowing us to do.  The Bill is not saying that we have to go in one specific direction. Rather, it is a part of a range of different targets and things we are putting in place to provide us with greater energy security. As Deputy Devlin outlined, it is not all about focusing on this specifically. This gives us the opportunity to seek other ways.  As someone who was a CFO of a solar energy company, I know the benefits of renewables. I would be the first to say that renewables are the way forward. I would put them on every roof in the country if I could. It is important to push for that, as well as ensuring we have offshore wind infrastructure. Those are important to do. In response to Deputy Ahern, no one on this side of the House is losing that focus. We are really focused on that. I can see that all across my party. At the same time, we are trying to put options and opportunities in place. It is about putting storage and back-up in place. Ultimately, we would all love it if we could just build wind farms and have it all done in the morning, with windmills outside our houses and everything solved, but it is honestly not as simplistic as that.  I listened patiently to Deputy Ahern for quite a long time. There is both good and bad in the different points he made. I agree with some of them and, obviously, I fundamentally disagree with others. I disagree with his description of the ethos on this side of the House. Ultimately, everyone in this Chamber wants what is best for the country and for the future of our children. We all want what is best for our families in many different ways, children or not. We are trying to secure their future. Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn will have different views, as will Deputy Cronin, but we are all coming here for the right reasons. We might have a different view of how those rules should be applied. Some say we should do less, while others say we should do more. I do not think anyone would be more aware of what the needs and requirements of the people in Clare are than the Minister of State, Deputy Dooley, who is sitting on the Front Bench. More than anyone else, he fundamentally knows the impact on the locality and, more importantly, the broad opportunities that exist in this situation.  To speak to the wider point, the infrastructure committee launched its latest report, a key part of which was the Critical Infrastructure Bill. The country and Government are doing well economically. No one needs me to say we are running budgets surpluses. We are an anomaly in the western world with the amount of money we have. We are very successful in that regard, but we must ensure we are investing it in infrastructure and the future of the country. This is one such step. I know Members might have a different view in this regard but if we do not put those templates in place, we will not be able to develop in the future. This is what this Bill is part of.  I want to make sure the Minister of State knows there is good support on this side of the House, rather than simply hearing the negative from the other side of the House. It is important we build that future because, ultimately, we are all here to do the best on behalf of the country. We may have slightly different ways of doing it but this is an important step towards energy security, which is a huge issue for the country. I welcome the opportunity to support the Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  This is the second Bill I will discuss this week which will act to tear holes in our country's climate ambition. It is doing that on a week when we are seeing the realities of the scale of climate change across Europe, with heat impacting on so many countries and making life intolerable for millions of people. The irony of this is lost on the Government, which is rushing through this legislation and the airport cap legislation with the minimum of debate. I will focus on that before I get into the substantive discussion.  I have heard other Deputies eloquently advocate for this legislation. There are clear, different approaches and views in this regard, and that is fine. However, if that is the case, let us test it. This Bill and the Dublin Airport cap Bill will be discussed on Committee, Report and Remaining Stages for two hours each next week. I cannot recall seeing such important legislation rammed through this House with such little respect. I have put a set of amendments down on each of these Bills and other members of the Opposition have done likewise. There is a difference in approach between the Government and the Opposition. Let that be tested on Committee Stage. It could be done on Committee Stage next week. We all know what the end result will be, but this could be tested on Committee Stage next week and the Bill could then proceed to Report Stage the following week. It would still be done by the end of this year. It is deeply disrespectful, but also indicative of the lack of seriousness with which the Government treats these issues, that it is simply ramming this through the D\u00e1il without the requisite opportunity to debate, amend or improve.  I will now turn to the legislation before us. My central issue with this Bill, the airport cap Bill and the Critical Infrastructure Bill is that all three seek a carve-out from the application of the climate action Act. With regard to this Bill, to be clear, no proposal to introduce new fossil fuel infrastructure into our country's energy mix should go ahead without a climate impact assessment.  That is exactly what section 33 of this Bill proposes to do. If an emergency reserve is needed, and it is a big \"if\", that \"if\" will be contingent on several factors. It will be contingent on how soon and how readily we can electrify our energy systems and support it with interconnection and support it with storage. Then it is critically important that a Bill that enables such a piece of infrastructure would take place within the framework of decarbonising our society. To do otherwise would create a situation where we develop a reserve which locks us in to further fossil fuel dependency well past its sale-by date. That, in my view, is what this proposal will do.  Every member of the Government who spoke on this said this is only for an emergency. If the Government is serious about that, let it help us achieve that by putting the relevant measures into this Bill, make sure it is time-bound and make sure it is compliant with our larger climate obligations in the Act and in the annual climate action plans. That is what would at least provide some element of reassurance that this is only emergency legislation. That could be done. I will be bringing forward amendments to allow that - other members of the Opposition will be doing the same - although they will not be accepted. That is why it is hard to hear this tale being spun that we are all in it together. There are two distinct views here about what this Bill could achieve and we will not even get the opportunity to tease that out over the next week.  Exempting fossil fuel infrastructure from the application of the climate Act sets a worrying precedent. It also makes a mockery of the efforts taking place all over the country, in households and in businesses in wide-ranging sectors of the economy, to reduce our emissions. What is happening with this legislation, taken in conjunction with the Critical Infrastructure Bill 2026 passed by the Houses, is the Government is creating a situation where our climate targets will undergo death by a thousand exemptions. Let us remember that where we exempt sections of society or the economy from the application of the Act, other sections of society have to meet the difference in terms of emissions. Therefore, we are pushing the burden onto households, small businesses and other parts of the economy.  We are exempting this liquefied natural gas, LNG, terminal but for every other public body in Ireland, the commitment to national mitigation plans and to the adaptation frameworks and the transition objectives all are legally binding. They are not only guidelines; they are legally binding. That is what happened in the Act all of us, all parties represented here, voted for in 2021. Now we have a major fossil fuel project that has been planned to work outside of the country's climate law and that will inevitably lead to calls for other pieces of infrastructure to be excluded too. We see that with the airport cap and the Critical Infrastructure Bill.  If the climate law applies to everything except the most carbon intensive projects, essentially, it applies to nothing at all. That is what we are doing in the three pieces of legislation that will be passed in this House over these two months.  Without the right guardrails in place in this legislation, we are putting ourselves at risk of creating significant fossil fuel lock-in within our energy system and doubling down on a higher cost of fuel for families and for homes. LNG terminals do not store LNG for long periods of time. They have to be continually topped off because of the burn off of LNG, even when there is no emergency. This creates a continual demand for the LNG gas in the energy system, sending the exact opposite message to what we should be sending right now.  We know that long-term use of fossil fuels is incompatible with our 2050 targets, which should take priority. Even if the terminal is built for security today, and let us not forget it will not be built today but will be operational in 2030 at the earliest, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, has recognised that LNG terminals will have to be phased out within ten-to-15 years. Then we will have this terminal as a stranded asset. It will become unusable and uneconomic. I note that this Bill does not require the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, to have a clear pathway to wind down and decommission the reserve while approving it, and that only adds to those risks.  If we are to have a gas reserve, it should entail the smallest possible amount for the shortest possible period of time with a clear exit strategy, all of which is underpinned by the mechanisms of the climate Act. The Bill we are debating today does none of those things. Instead, it leaves the use of LNG in our energy system as an open-ended question at a time when we know just how unreliable supplies of fossil fuels can be globally.  I will turn to that point of security of supply because that has been the central argument that the Government has put forward. I believe tying ourselves into LNG will do the opposite of providing security of energy supply in our country. We know that using LNG fails to deliver affordability. We saw the first day of the Iran war, the price of LNG shot up 46% in one single day. The world's largest LNG terminal, Ras Laffan, in Qatar, was closed on day two of the Iran conflict. Twenty per cent of the world's LNG comes from there. Much of the rest of the LNG comes from the United States, with all the risks of being dependent on the whims of the Trump Administration and whoever follows him. We are tying our economy into a substance, a highly-polluting fossil fuel, that is unstable as to both its price and its availability. That is not energy security. What will deliver energy security for Ireland is producing our own renewable energy here at home and that should be our priority. That should be where the Government is fixing its time and where the Government is fixing the huge economic resources - \u20ac900 million - that this particular project will cost.  We should not be relying on other countries to produce our energy for us, such as using Qatari LNG or US fracked gas. We need our own energy so that we can make our own choices. The solution is to rapidly build onshore and offshore wind, develop our solar farms, put in place the energy interconnection systems that will tie us into other grids and ensure the energy we create here at times of high production from renewables is stored through rolling out battery storage at scale, and I raised this issue with the Taoiseach earlier this week.  When my party was in government, as part of the Government, we put in place the frameworks that would enable the roll-out of offshore wind. We went from a situation where there was only a skeleton crew of staff working in the Department of energy on the issue of offshore to creating a new offshore wind unit in the Department. We brought together a task force, bringing in industry so that it could engage with the Department in terms of the barriers that existed there. As part of that Government, we worked with Ministers in other Departments to set up Marine Area Regulatory Authority, MARA, to get the marine planning legislation passed. That Government was able to advance five major renewable energy auctions in 2023. Three years on, there is still not one of those feeding into the grid. At the same time, every time wind energy industry representatives comes into this House and talk to TDs, they say An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la does not have enough staff to get the planning applications done in detail. The Minister, Deputy Chambers, will stand up and say that he doubled the number of staff in An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la and he is not giving any more. That is the barrier the industry experts have cited to us in getting our offshore wind energy system online. The barriers are lack of staff in An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la to undertake this scrutiny. It is not judicial reviews. It is not the climate Act. It is not environmental NGOs. It is a failure to address the substantive barriers to the delivery of offshore wind and of the wider electrification of our energy systems.  The Minister of State, Deputy Dooley, and I have spoken already about something small that will not change the world. In plug-in solar, even something small such as that, Ireland is behind because there is not that effort to bring those concerned, whether ESB Networks, EirGrid and the Irish standards authority, together to bring about a solution to allow more people enjoy lower cost energy from these solutions.  The Celtic interconnector, something that will guarantee significant energy security and enough electricity to support 450,000 households, is delayed by two years. These are the areas where the Government needs to focus. Instead, we have a grandiose project such as this.  We have Members on the backbenches touting nuclear fuel. We need to focus on the areas where we can actually deliver and have a track record but where there are clear barriers to the rapid delivery of the electrification of our energy networks. I wish the same passion and determination were put into the changes that would allow us to create our own energy in Ireland as have been put into driving forward this Bill and other Bills that undermine our climate obligations.  I will talk a little about the project itself because it is not going to deliver energy security in the short term. The best estimate we got in the committee was that it would take three and a half years - until 2030 - before this would be built, assuming there are no delays. There are few projects in this country where we can see that happening. It is going to cost \u20ac900 million in capital and running costs. This huge investment would pay for many of the solar panels Deputy Neville said he would love to see going up across the country.  We have to remember that by the time the terminal is open, climate targets will be higher, our carbon budget will be far more constrained and our reliance on fossil fuels should be declining, not growing. However, through this Bill and the facility that will be created under it, we will lock ourselves even further into a continued fossil fuel reliance, which could last for decades. This is completely misaligned with the climate goals the country agreed to. We should not be planning further fossil fuel energy infrastructure at the same time as we are trying to move away from fossil fuels as a core national policy. This creates a real risk that when this terminal is created, our energy goals and climate policies will have moved on. By 2030 and 2031, we will be in a different place. Hopefully, some of that wind power will be feeding into our system, but we will have invested \u20ac900 million in this infrastructure.  To take the example of Germany, in 2022, it invested \u20ac2.5 billion in LNG infrastructure. Since then, it has had to spend more than \u20ac4 billion extra in state aid to cover the losses, as these terminals' operating costs continue to rise. These rising costs can be attributed to Germany's decreased reliance on natural gas since the terminals were built. That question of having a stranded asset is not one that has been examined in sufficient detail. In years to come, there will be real questions raised about the wisdom of investing so much in a large piece of expensive infrastructure when our national policy is that we do not want to use this fuel any more.  This Bill is a clear effort to undermine and weaken our climate law, in combination with the other three Bills I referred to earlier. I passionately believe in energy security for this country. I remember my parents talking to me about the late 1970s and the oil crisis in that period. Four times in my time in D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann, our country has been struck by dramatic energy security incidents, generated by the wars in Ukraine and Iran. Those energy crises have impacted on families and caused misery and financial hardship all over the country. I passionately believe in delivering security of supply, but I am not convinced by the argument the Government is bringing forward. Tying ourselves to a polluting fossil fuel that has seen its price spike and its availability shrink in each of these energy fuel crises is not the solution to our security of supply. Security of supply for energy in Ireland is delivered by making our own renewable energy here in Ireland. That is where the focus of this Government's action, legislation and investment needs to be. Very importantly, the Minister and his civil servants, in creating policy, need to focus on getting through the blockages in our system. The industry groups supporting the electrification of our nation's energy systems are trying to get through those blockages. However, they are not getting help because the focus is on work like such as this, namely, legislation that requires a huge amount of work and is locking us into a system and energy source we need to move away from.  I look forward to the opportunity to tease out in detail my objections and the objections of others to the Bill. I look forward to bringing forward meaningful solutions to some of the issues I have raised. I appeal to the Minister of State to speak to his colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, about the time allocated to this Bill. It is not acceptable to have two hours for Committee, Report and Remaining stages. It does not do his or any of our arguments justice. This is an important matter, and it deserves more than two hours. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  I was going to say I welcome the Bill, but I do not welcome it; it is a necessary evil. Its purpose is to secure the provision of energy to this country in the long term, at a time when the provision of energy and resources to generate energy are tremendously volatile and precipitous in terms of our access to energy.  I listened to Deputy O'Gorman say security of supply should be achieved by domestic generation. I would fully agree with that statement, but for the fact that we are not capable of generating everything we need on this island. Thankfully, we have access to the UK electricity market through the North-South interconnector, and I look forward to accessing mainland Europe electricity in 2028, through the Celtic interconnector, a 575 km undersea cable that will connect us to Brittany. When that is completed, we will have access to the electricity there. That will be an important part of building energy security for this country.  Some of the electricity coming through the Celtic interconnector will come from electricity generated by nuclear power stations. I do not have a problem with that but I would distinguish myself from other Government backbenchers who were referred to earlier. I do not think nuclear is part of the solution to our problems here, by any stretch. For a start, the cost involved is enormous. Moreover, the time delivery for it is way beyond what we would need to put in clean solutions such as wind, solar and, hopefully, wave, which is not being used nearly enough. More importantly, the use of nuclear energy as a solution to the security of supply for Ireland would build up enormous problems for future generations, and I simply do not hold with that idea. I am not afraid of the conversation in that regard, but I do not think nuclear is part of the answer.  I understand why this Bill is being brought forward. As I said, I consider it to be a necessary evil. The reason for providing for an LNG terminal is to secure a supply of gas, if it is required and the supply of gas from elsewhere ceased. However, I am still not happy about that. For example, I am not happy that there are no guarantees in this legislation regarding fracked gas that might come here as LNG. There are not, and there cannot be, because it would create all kinds of other difficulties. It is, of course, important to build resilience into our system but I wonder if we will have missed the boat by the time we do so in 2030.  As of today, there is not a single operational offshore wind farm in this country. The Minister of State will agree that this is not just regrettable; it is disgraceful. I know the Arklow Bank wind farm has been decommissioned but may well come back into service in due course, with further applications and all the rest. I am aware of projects off the coast of my constituency. I welcome those and look forward to their operation but we are years away from seeing those generate electricity. We have other problems, including growing electricity demand. If the LNG terminal is not going to be available until 2030, as I understand it, that in itself creates a problem from the point of view of its real assistance in energy security for this country. I wonder about the efficacy of it in that regard.  There is always a balance to be struck to meet the requirements of the State. As bad as this might be, it would be a thousand times worse if, in a couple of years' time, there were rolling blackouts on our electricity grid or people were not able to avail of electricity for their homes and businesses or, worse, for essential services. We must do everything we can, as a Government, State, country and body politic, to ensure we are putting in place resilience measures so that we can compensate if there is a problem in this regard.  Security of supply is central. We should be moving towards becoming energy independent. That should the end point of all our energy goals. We have the natural resources to do it. We have the wind, and I am told we have the solar. Even though it might feel like it today, it does not feel like it on a cold Monday in November.  The point is that the natural resources exist and if we are to develop wave technology and other renewable technologies, we can do that. I recognise there is a long lead-in to that, which is far too long, in my opinion. The blocking and delays of offshore wind projects, which are even less problematic than onshore wind projects, are unacceptable. That is the kind of thing that we should target. If we are going to use a slot for controversial legislation, let us do it for that instead of creating an LNG terminal. However, I recognise the policy objective behind it.  There are other aspects of the Bill that I am a little unhappy with. The objections I have primarily relate to drafting. For example, at the end of the Bill, Part 7, section 38, creates a consequential amendment to the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992. This is something that I say about legislation all the time. If we expect legislation to be readable by ordinary citizens, the amendment should be contained in the amending section. Section 38 states that a section of the 1992 Act is amended by replacing paragraph (b) with the following words, which is no use to anybody reading this Bill when it comes law. They then have to go and get the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 and read the two of them together to understand what this legislation is doing. It is a consistent disservice that we do in this House to the citizens of this country that we cannot, in amending a section, essentially repeal the old one and restate it in this Bill so that it is easily read by citizens. It would be an easy thing to do, yet we never, ever do it. This is, far and away, not the worst example. There have been more than a dozen Road Traffic (Amendment) Acts, for example. The 1961 Act, the primary Act, simply does not exist any more because it has been amended so many times, yet we have no consolidated Act. It is a point I make all the time because we would serve people much better if we were willing to actually engage with something that they could read.  The other drafting points I wanted to make relate to the judicial review provisions in section 35 and elsewhere. The test for leave for a judicial review is amended in section 35(6). There is no need for that. We should allow the courts to do their job. Judicial review is a constitutional right that citizens have. We should not water that down. If they want to challenge it, let them challenge it. It is the same with the cost provisions in section 37(1). Why on earth would we need to put a cost provision in? The courts are managing that for themselves. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  As Ireland prepares to assume the Presidency of the European Union, the question of energy security has rarely been more urgent or relevant. While we are making real progress on the development of renewables, we must also recognise the vulnerabilities that remain in our system. With the risk of disruption to gas supply, whether through geopolitical instability or hybrid attack, our critical infrastructure underlying the need for a strategic gas emergency reserve, and I support that in principle. The recent global energy shocks have exposed just how fragile energy systems can be and how dependent we are on imported fuels. While the current crisis may have eased, with petrol and diesel prices coming down at the pumps, it would be a mistake to assume that those risks have passed. The reality is that we are entering a more uncertain and volatile geopolitical environment and our domestic energy policy must reflect that.  The Joint Committee on Climate, Environment and Energy undertook pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of this Bill. We heard from a range of witnesses and had a pretty thorough debate about the merits of the facility. The clear conclusions from that process were that while reducing gas demand and scaling up renewables would significantly strengthen our position, those measures alone are not sufficient to fully address the energy security risks that we face. Ultimately, a strategic gas emergency reserve, implemented on a transitional basis only, and used only in the event of supply disruption, represents the most immediate and cost-effective way to enhance Ireland's energy resilience. Importantly, the committee was also clear that this reserve must not distort the market or lead to increased gas consumption in Ireland. It is an energy security measure only and should solely be seen as a bridge to maintaining greater gas security and resilience. I urge the Minister of State that the Government recognise the importance of this and ensure that this legislation remains focused on that purpose alone, and there are clear measures for decommissioning the facility, and a sunset clause, on the basis that it will not be with us in the long term.  The debate also speaks to a more fundamental question about what energy mix we can expect to see in Ireland in the future. It is a topic that the Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach knows comes up at the committee frequently. While we are rightly committed to a system predominantly powered by renewable energy, there will still be a need for dispatchable power. Renewable energy by its nature depends on the weather. While batteries are improving and can manage short-term changes in supply and demand, they do not and will not, in the short term, be able to sustain electricity supply over long periods. Yesterday at the committee, we discussed nuclear power. Lots of people have been getting very excited about nuclear power, but the hard reality, as we heard yesterday, is that it will be at least 2040 and most likely 2050 before we can get it. It is very expensive. We have no regulatory regime in Ireland and no legislation to support it. Much of the technology is unproven. Small modular reactors, SMRs, have been talked about for so long. There are 64 projects in various guises at the moment worldwide. Only two are in operation to demonstrate the technology. It is just not ready at the moment.  Investment in our grid will alleviate some of the issues relating to power, providing a level of flexibility and interconnection with other markets which currently does not exist. Plug-in solar, as the Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach, Deputy Heneghan, has mentioned numerous times, and as mentioned by Deputy O'Gorman, is another thing we should do to distribute the load. Without these transformations, the ambition of a renewables-led system cannot be realised. However, even with the grid upgraded, Ireland will continue to require reliable, dispatchable baseload power. For the foreseeable future, that role will continue to be met primarily by gas. I wish it was different, but that is the reality. The strategic gas emergency reserve is a reflection of that reality. It is a pragmatic and necessary step to ensure that, in the event of a severe disruption, we have the capacity to protect households, businesses, and critical services.  When we looked at that issue, community groups came in from the environs where the facility is to be built. It is important that they are kept up to speed about what is happening. They have all sorts of concerns, from health to impact on the local community. It is important that the Government engages with those communities and brings them along on this journey as this facility is developed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  Ireland's energy system is a mess at the moment. We have the highest domestic electricity prices in the whole European Union. We are enormously exposed to shocks. Our grid is falling apart at the moment. It is not able to handle the electricity that is coming onto the system at all. It has happened as a result, in large part, of an absence of investment since the crash. We have had infrastructure capital depreciation at an enormous rate, which has not been filled with investment, as a result, in large part, of the Minister's Government.  We need gas storage in Ireland. Ireland is the only country in the European Union without a gas storage facility. That leaves us significantly exposed to changes in the supply of gas and the price of gas too. This came to light in its most severe manner during the onset of the Ukraine war, when the supply of gas through most of Europe collapsed. We saw a massive increase in the cost of gas. This crisis continues today, with the war in Iran, a situation whereby a quick change in the Strait of Hormuz has had knock-on effects on the price of gas in this country. These are not aberrations. We are living in an unstable world and the locations of the production of gas are often the most unstable on the planet.  Obviously gas is really important in the pricing and supply of electricity, because we have a system in this country, the Government's system, whereby we have marginal pricing when it comes electricity. That means the price of electricity is dependent on the last unit of electricity that is produced. In this country, it is typically produced by gas. This dependency is not going anywhere soon, for a number of reasons. One is the slow increase in renewable energy, and another is that the Government is significantly increasing demand because it is lamping on serious numbers of data centres. At the moment, about 24% of all electricity consumed in the State is being consumed by data centres, an outlier in Europe, where typically 4% to 5% of electricity in other countries is consumed by data centres.  This means, no matter how much sustainable energy that we push onto the system, we are never going to reach the end because gas will always be necessary because the Government is increasing the demand for gas at a serious rate. Gas will play a role in the production of electricity for a long time to come. Even if that were not the case, we have a system that is highly unstable if we rely just upon renewable energy. There are many days when there is no wind or sun. You will always need a backup of gas-produced electricity. There is no doubt that we need a gas storage system in this country.  I want to talk about the infrastructure for a start. The infrastructure in this country is so poor it is incredible. We have bottlenecks and constraints, and it is leading to a significant dispatch down in terms of electricity providers. We are actually paying wind turbine companies to stop producing electricity at certain times because it cannot be accepted onto the system. Of course, that is an extra price for the end user. Then we are paying for the backup of the gas systems to come on as well during that particular time. We have a strange system now whereby every extra wind turbine that we add onto the system has a diminishing return in terms of value to the system. I am not saying that they do not have a value or that it is not beneficial, but each extra turbine is less beneficial because the system is not able to allow for those turbines to come along.  I am old enough the remember the oceans of bumf that used to come from the Government that used to say that Ireland would be the Saudi Arabia of sustainable energy development. The Minister of State must remember that himself. There used to be brochures upon brochures telling people that we were going to become net exporters in terms of electricity. What has actually happened? The opposite. We are significant net importers of electricity. That is going to increase. The more connections we plug in to the rest of Europe, the more electricity that we will import. One of the reasons for this is Government incompetence and Government lack of investment. I will give the House an example of Government incompetence. Over the last 15 years, the Government has had five international conferences on offshore wind energy. The Government has paid for five conferences and invited Ministers from all around the world and experts in companies to those five conferences on offshore wind energy. On the other side of the equation, how many wind turbines do we have offshore? Zero. We have had more conferences on offshore wind turbines in this country than we have offshore wind turbines. You could not make this up. If you were to create a comedy show to lampoon the Government's incapability to deliver energy, you would not have the creativity to contrast those two elements in the manner that they are there. There is such a problem in relation to this. This issue is getting worse. There are no offshore wind turbines at the moment. Many of the companies currently engaging in the system to become wind energy companies are actually disengaging now as a result.  We in Aont\u00fa believe we need to build renewable energy in this country. We want to see a far bigger element of the electricity production come from renewables. We want to see this country become energy secure. We talk a lot in this Chamber about food security. Energy security is as important as food security in this country. The more dependent we are on other countries, the more insecure we are. We believe that we need more microgeneration. More homes need to become self-sufficient in electricity. We need more rooftop production of electricity. The way to do that is to make sure that those solar systems are accessible to everybody. They are not accessible to everybody because the grants that are available are still far too small for low-income and middle-income families. We want to see more farmers get involved. Energy should be seen as a crop for farmers to be able to make a living from. Far more use should be made of sheds, land and biodigestion. I went to the headquarters of the Belgium electricity provider a number of years ago. We were looking at the grid system. They were looking at the grid and seeing a reduction in the grid over a number of years. I asked why the grid was reducing. They said that electricity would be locally generated in the future, that we are not going to have the necessity for the massive grids to transport electricity across the country and far more electricity will be microgenerated and locally generated.  Another aspect of this is a spatial element. A lot of the wind generation is happening in locations where the industry is not and, as a result, that creates the bottlenecks and difficulties getting the electricity to these locations. We should be developing industry into the areas where the electricity is coming from. It is very similar to the whole debate on taking water from the Parteen Basin to send to Dublin and add more of a population to Dublin rather than adding the population to Limerick, and, as a result, not having to move that resource so far in that area.  We want to see a healthy environment. We believe in a biodiverse environment. We want to see this country grow strongly in making sure that we have a healthier environment. We also need to make sure that there is human balance in that discussion. There are European laws, such as the habitats directive, which make it difficult for human beings to live in certain parts of the country. The big problem in Enniscorthy at the moment is the floods. I love the pearl mussel. I want to see the pearl mussel to do well. Unfortunately, the pearl mussel is located right in the middle of Enniscorthy, which stops the building of these flood defences. As a result, Enniscorthy has flooded for the last 25 years. Midleton flood defences have waited 14 years for a planning application to be put in. One of the issues here is we have to have a realisation that human beings also share these locations. Laws that come from Europe, such as the habitats directive, need to take that into consideration too.  We also need to realise that one of the problems we have in energy production in Ireland is that we have the slowest planning, tendering, procurement, licensing and judicial reviews in the whole European Union. All of these tools necessary for the production of infrastructure are slower here than they are in most of the European Union. That is because of this Government's incompetence on those issues.  I have problems with this Bill that are important. LNG is likely to be the source of the gas storage. Fracked gas is a major element of LNG. Fracked gas is incredibly damaging for the locations from which it is fracked and it has a far higher emission rate in terms of methane, which is pushed out in the system too. Aont\u00fa is against fracked gas in Ireland. It would be hypocritical to support an energy solution that includes fracked gas from other parts of the world. I also believe that there has not been enough examination of the potential impact of the gas terminal on the communities in County Clare and their health. That is important. Local communities must have consent for the production of infrastructure. When I went to Belgium, I asked what the parameters and priorities were to plan for infrastructural projects for their electricity. Second on that list was the idea of community consent. Community consent is nowhere in the aspects of the development in Ireland. That lack of community consent and the lack of ability to achieve that community consent at the start slows down projects. The Minister of State will know that there is a Government plan to build a North-South interconnector for electricity. I was in short trousers when the Government came up with that idea. It is incredible. That project has been going on so long. It has gone through all the hoops and is still no closer to getting built. Why? Farmers along the curtilage of that particular route are refusing to allow the ESB and EirGrid onto their sites. They are not going to let them onto their sites. It is not going to get built as a result. The Government went bull-headed in relation to that particular project and, as a result, slow it down, instead of using the technology that is used between Aachen and Li\u00e8ge in relation to the movement of electricity, which is to underground it.  It is really important that community consent is worked out at the start.  At the back of all this is the issue of data centres. Data centres are significantly pushing up the price of electricity for individuals. It is causing problems with the energy system being on a knife-edge at all times. We need to stop data centres. They need to pay the same electricity costs as domestic households. That would do two things: it would decrease the price of electricity for domestic householders in Ireland and it would reduce the incentive for data centres to come here.  There is a lot in the process that we are yet to look at. We will wait until the committee has looked at the Bill. We probably disagree with many of the Opposition parties in that we believe we do need a gas storage system. Whether this is the gas storage system remains to be seen. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  It is funny, for all the talk about speaking rights, to see a lot of Opposition not turning up to speak. This is a giant infrastructure project. I am not here to wreck this Bill - energy has always been a priority for me, having studied it before I had the honour of being elected \u2013 but we really need to look at it. I understand we need energy security. If, God forbid, there was an issue with one of the interconnectors or there was an energy disaster, critical services, hospitals, homes and people who really need it would lose access to power. That needs to be addressed. A more accurate cost-benefit analysis of this project should be carried out and compared with the option of decentralising our grid with more distribution system operators, DSOs, energy sharing and battery storage. I welcome the recent announcements on storage and how it is being looked at. I held a meeting in the audiovisual room with Energy Storage Ireland which was attended by a lot of Deputies and Senators. It was looking at changing the current regulations in the area.  I second what a lot of Deputies have said about data centres paying the same price as domestic energy users. Possibly, they should pay more. One way they could reduce the cost would be by using on-site renewable-generated electricity. I hope my Bill will enable them and other high-energy users to do so.  The \u20ac900 million cost of building the facility could be put into more renewables or enabling people to use plug-in solar. I thank the Department for publishing the consultation on plug-in solar from 2024. I read the five reviews \u2013 I think it was EIA, Bord G\u00e1is, ESB, EirGrid and ESBN and the Electricity Association \u2013 and a lot of them were very happy with it so I do not understand why the Department was saying it would be dangerous. The UK made a recent announcement on plug-in solar. We should run a pilot scheme and allow people in Fingal or Dublin City Council or any other county council with new-build social and affordable housing to have plug-in solar installed and show the savings to the State and the council through these systems. Some 3% or 4% of German electricity is generated from plug-in solar systems. That is no small feat for a system that can cost \u20ac300 or \u20ac400 from a Lidl or Aldi and the person can take it with them if they move. That is something that can really help. There is \u20ac900 million for this project. I know a plug-in solar system cannot power a hospital but an on-site best battery system which was charged up at night rate from the grid, stored for those emergencies at multiple locations in these systems, is another option we should be examining. We could also store HVOs for hospitals and use them for generators if there was to be an energy disaster. We are putting ourselves in a clear demand response. LNG cannot be stored for long periods in this system. It needs to be used. I welcome the work that has gone in by the Department. I also want to acknowledge EirGrid and ESB Networks - I generally do not do so but they do deserve some credit - as renewable sources supplied 49% of Ireland\u2019s electricity. I know the hard-working men and women in these companies are doing the best they can. Our grid was very old and they had to do everything they could but, as the Minister of State knows, in this House we rarely congratulate people. It is something we should do more in politics.  The CRU has approved up to \u20ac18.9 billion in green investment, which is a genuine step. However a recent article said it would not be able to take on external staff. It needs to take on external staff because it needs to be a regulator and to do its job. I welcome the engagement I have had with it and the Department.  I said I would not go over five minutes but now I have got going. Serious engineers are doing serious work. Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn mentioned the interconnectors. We are on an island which is politically divided, sadly. That is something I would love to see change during my time in this House. When that happens we will have people in a single government on this island of Ireland. However, when it comes to the interconnectors, we are seeing repeated cases of nimbyism where local politicians object to an overhead cable. I understand Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn referred to undergrounding the cables but induction means it will not be viable for long distances. I understand that it might be used in parts and it might be brilliant in some cases. Farmers should have the right to ask for the cables to go underground on their land rather than above it.  We were told this reserve is needed to bring about energy independence but I would again ask how adding one more single point of failure brings more energy independence and security. Surely multiple points of failure would bring that? If, God forbid, there was an attack on our energy infrastructure, on one of the interconnectors, for example, surely having one large LNG terminal would make it a big bullseye for someone who wants to take out our energy infrastructure. Multiple underground energy storage units would be energy independence and security in my opinion. Maybe the Government is doing that and it just does not want me to say that on the record of the House.  On ports, Ireland has only 44 ha of planned offshore renewable energy space. Belfast has a backlog of bookings and is the only port suitable for large scale ORE. We are missing an opportunity. I have welcomed the investment into Cork Port many times and I also welcome the work the Department is doing with port marshalling to allow more investment into port.  I will have two amendments to the Bill which I look forward to discussing.  I have said before that Churchill tried before to limit coal coming into Ireland to force de Valera\u2019s hand. The UK Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, resigned recently. Looking at the polls, we do not know who will be in power in UK after the next election. Making our country dependent on an interconnector when we do not control the energy coming from the other side is not energy independence. I know this would but I am talking on the broader scheme. The Bill should be amended to include a clause to re-examine that.  I support the principle of the Bill. It is a necessary evil, as Deputy Ward said. A lot of work could have been done by a previous government, when the Green Party was in coalition, to prevent this. I can only do what I can do when I am in this House since my election. I ask the Minister and the Department to look at my amendments and consider the discussion I hope to have about the future-proofing of our grid.  I will ask once more about plug-in solar. I welcome that we are having discussion on it at the climate and energy committee. It is a quick fix, it is low cost and will save people in the constituency I represent money. I welcome the engagement the Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Brien, have had.  That only took me eight minutes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Timmy Dooley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Timmy-Dooley.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment (Deputy Timmy Dooley)  In line with the Deputy\u2019s comments, I congratulate him on being so succinct in his points. He managed to do it in a relatively quick time.  I will make a number of general comments. We have had a good debate across a lot of areas, many of which are not part of or subject to this legislation. This Bill is the first stage in addressing the energy security deficit that we have.  It is an enabling piece of legislation to allow for the procurement of the necessary permissions. It sets out a timely way to do that by setting aside certain pieces of existing legislation in order to get it done at the haste it needs to happen. Everybody recognises, and there has been a broad consensus, that we need energy security. Others have pivoted to saying what we should be doing is addressing the renewables issue, which of course we are. Bringing forward this piece of legislation in no way distracts from the Government's agenda to move towards and reach our climate change targets in relation to the reduction of CO2 emissions, the electrification of our economy and generation of that electricity from renewable resources within our own ambit. It is the right thing to do from a climate change perspective. It is the right thing to do from an energy security perspective. It is the right thing to do for our citizens and businesses into the future, from the perspective of competitiveness. It guarantees us costs. It allows us to reduce costs and not to be vulnerable to the kinds of shocks that everybody has talked about. I know we are in a political Chamber but if you strip away a lot of the politics, there is little between any of us in this House about where we need to go.  It is the case that we are all aligned on renewables but to get renewables at scale and reach the capacity to power our economy when the wind is not blowing or the sun is not shining, we need something else to power our electricity generation. We will require greater amounts of that as we move heating, transport and more components of our economy onto the grid and we need to invest in our grid. We are doing that. I know there is some criticism that we do not have any turbines in the water at the moment. We were ahead of others, and we have fallen behind for sure. However, the plans we have in place and the projects at different stages of permissions were not mentioned at all. We have to work them through, and we expect by 2031 or 2032 to have between 3 GW and 5 GW of electricity generated from offshore renewable sources. We are at about 8 GW on land at the minute, between solar and wind. That is a significant quantum of electricity.  The previous Government changed the strategy for the development of offshore renewables. Rather than having it being developer led, identifying sites and responding to various options, we now have a planned approach in place. The DMAP for an area off the south-east coast of Ireland has worked well. The bid went through last December. Some 900 MW of electricity has been procured and that is now working its way through the planning system. The State has derisked projects like that by capturing the subsea data and providing it to the bidders. There was a caustic comment about the number of conferences we have had. I have participated in those. I have travelled to encourage international developers to participate in those auctions. That is to the long-term benefit of Ireland. There is a recognition among the large companies that take on these projects that Ireland is a good place to invest, and they are following through on that. There were three or four bidders for the auction off the south-east coast. They are still interested in Ireland and there are three other opportunities in the same designated zone, which will be going to auction over the coming months and year. In addition, the State has undertaken a national designation for such sites, and we will have all of those sites identified by the end of 2027. That strategy is working towards our commitment out to 2040, so we will have identified all the necessary sites to generate an additional 15 GW of electricity. That will far surpass our domestic demand. It opens up opportunities if we can get the right interconnectors in place. We have the Celtic one coming on board. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, on behalf of the Government, recently signed a memorandum of understanding with Spain to look at the possibility of interconnection there too. We are travelling at significant pace and scale now to reach our renewable targets.  We are also developing a strategy for hydrogen because we identified that getting to 2050 and reaching net zero, particularly with regard to our electricity generation, will not be possible without hydrogen or some component thereof, be it ammonia or whatever. Ultimately, if we get to a point where we are able to use the electricity for the purpose of generating hydrogen at times where the demand is not on the grid, we will have effective storage of clean energy in a molecule format that can be stored. It will either be that or through ammonia, whatever is the safest method of doing it as technologies develop. That ensures you are not grounding electrons or doing dispatch downs.  Some seem to suggest, from a critical perspective, that the Government was not talking a strategic approach but of course we are. We are planning it now in a long-term strategic way, recognising where our targets are and what we have to achieve. In the here and now, today, and beyond 2030 as we head towards 2040, we will still need fossil fuels to fill that gap in our energy mix. It would be foolhardy of any administration of whatever hue in this House to somehow walk away from its responsibility to provide insofar as it can a back-up storage plan in the less likely but still possible event of some disruption to the two gas interconnectors out of Scotland. For years gone by, we were drawing a significant amount of our gas from the Corrib gas field. As that is petering out, and the level of gas coming from it is reducing significantly, we have to move on this. Frankly, I think we should have moved sooner. That would be my criticism. This should have been in place. We are doing it now. Others then suggested we were baking in or locking ourselves into fossil fuel infrastructure. Had we allowed some of the commercial operators who sought to do this to build a gas terminal, then yes we would be locking ourselves in. This is a mobile piece of kit. There will be some hardware on the ground but, in essence, it is a ship storing gas connected to our pipeline. When the Government gets to a point that it no longer requires that level of storage, the asset moves on.  A lot of questions were raised today that do not really relate to this Bill. This is just about the permission and setting aside certain elements of existing planning legislation to get the fast-tracked approach through. Another Bill will come forward later this year that will effectively be the operational component, and which will address the costs and the kinds of commitments that have been sought with regard to the length of time, usage, access for private capital and all of that. All of those elements will be in a later Bill. The issues were raised and there are amendments. I have had a quick look at them and have been briefed on a number of them. They are more likely to relate to the next Bill rather than this Bill. Some of the concepts and discussions we were having today and the issues raised have more application in the operational piece of legislation rather than just on the planning side. Deputy Whitmore raised a number of issues she was concerned were not in this Bill, and I want to assure her and many others that those elements will be addressed or, if they are not, Members can discuss them with us. We will happily look at them. I obviously make no commitment in advance of a piece of legislation that has yet to be published. The heads of Bill probably still have to go to Government to clear but we have a broad plan here and we want to implement it. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and declared carried."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026: Second Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_35","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Message from Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_35","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Barry Heneghan)  The Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade has completed its consideration of the Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2026 and has made no amendments thereto. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Message from Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_36","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Barry Heneghan)  I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case:  Deputy Shane Moynihan - To discuss delays in reimbursement under the cross-border healthcare directive.  Deputy Jen Cummins - To discuss the arts and humanities Research Ireland funding.  Deputy Tom Brabazon - To discuss the loss of staff at a school in Priorswood.  Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss the development of Bunclody Community College, County Wexford.  Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan - To discuss the reimbursement of a drug and implementation of the drug reimbursement system.  Deputy Pa Daly - To discuss delivery of a new building for a school in County Kerry.  Deputy Colm Burke - To discuss actions to reduce the risk to children who require MRI scans under anaesthetic.  Deputy Barry Ward - To discuss steps to ensure that LGBTQI+ people who are victims of hate-motivated incidents have confidence in reporting offences to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na.  Deputy Gary Gannon - To discuss the proposed reforms of the criminal legal aid system.  Deputies Se\u00e1n Crowe, John Lahart, Paul Murphy and Ciar\u00e1n Ahern - To discuss the timeline for completion of the Sancta Maria College school building and sports hall project.  Deputy Darren O'Rourke - To discuss the urgent need to address the deficit of playing pitches, playgrounds and public green space in Meath.  The matters raised by Deputies Jen Cummins; Darren O'Rourke; Se\u00e1n Crowe, John Lahart, Paul Murphy and Ciar\u00e1n Ahern; and Barry Ward have been selected for discussion "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_37","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_38","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Research Funding","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_37","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_38","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I wish to raise the issue of the growing concern in Ireland's academic community with regard to the future of funding for arts, humanities and social science research under the new Research Ireland strategy. Before getting into the details, I note that I come from an arts background. My primary degree was in history, sociology and English, my next was in sociology and I have a doctorate in education, so I am clearly a little biased on this. I really feel the value of the arts, social sciences and humanities in terms of how we are as a country and how we conduct ourselves. That is not to say that I am anti-STEM at all. To balance that off, my husband works in that field, and my son is now doing it in college, so I think we can have a balanced conversation.  It is important that we are not pitting one thing against the other. That is the nub of the issue here. Research Ireland has a finite amount of money, and it can only fund a certain number of things, but value needs to be put on both STEM and the arts, humanities and social sciences. If we look at the background of this, I am bringing it forward because almost 2,000 academics from universities across the country wrote an open letter to The Irish Times expressing the concerns they have with regard to what Research Ireland's current direction appears to be, and that it is towards more industry-focused research, which they feel is undervaluing the arts, humanities and social sciences.  Of course, it is important that we have research that is able to grow the economy and that looks to the technological innovations we will need to have in the future. I have stood in this Chamber several times to talk about what we need from a science perspective because I am also the spokesperson for further and higher education, research, innovation and science - the shortest title of any spokesperson role, I would say. That is not to say that it only has to be that way. We need to make sure that when the industry is funding and leading what we want, it does not take over the other things that are necessary as well.  When people look at the arts and humanities, they think that they are just subjects that you do - they are nice but you will never get a job from that. I note there was a debate recently about getting rid of arts programmes, and I would argue absolutely against that. A lot of the time, when young people leave second level and go to third level, they do not know what they want to do, so a firm basis in general sciences, general arts or other more general degrees is beneficial for them to discover themselves.  To bring that back to the level of research, we need to be able to look, from a social scientific point of view, at what our future world is going to bring to us, what we need to know and what we know now about what is going to happen in the future, so we can build schools, homes and all of those things. That comes from social science. It is not just statistical analysis from a STEM perspective.  The fear of the Postgraduate Workers' Organisation, IFUT and others is that Research Ireland and the Department made these decisions and kind of let them know along the way how things were going to go. That is not consultation; that is just letting someone know. It is a concern that I also have. It is important when things are changing and evolving that people are brought along, not just left to the side and told a couple of weeks beforehand that this is what the changes are going to be. There needs to be a right to be able to challenge that. That is why the open letter has happened. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kieran O'Donnell)  I thank Deputy Cummins for raising this issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy James Lawless. I welcome the opportunity to update colleagues on how the arts, humanities, and social sciences will be supported through the Research Ireland strategy and the progress on implementation to date.  Research Ireland was established as the national research and innovation funding agency to promote and continue developing excellence in research across all disciplines, including arts, humanities and social sciences, AHSS. The new agency strategy was published in March of this year. The strategy names AHSS as a distinctive national strength, with a role across all three impact themes: talent, society and the economy. The strategy safeguards AHSS funding through a guaranteed minimum floor, which will ensure continuity of funding for AHSS at or above existing levels. No cuts are proposed to funding or to the number of places being funded by the agency.  The dedicated society impact theme commits to investment in strengthening capacity across the breadth of disciplines and enabling interdisciplinary and transdisciplinary research to bring together diverse perspectives, expertise and cross-government support to tackle key societal challenges. The agency will be working to strengthen engagement and collaboration with wider research users and performers, such as not-for-profit organisations and charities, and the arts and culture sector, to drive and showcase greater benefit to society.  Basic, fundamental research is also firmly recognised and supported within Research Ireland\u2019s strategy. It has been a consistent goal of this Government to support fundamental and frontier research at all times, and this is set out strongly. There has been substantial consultation across the research system in developing the new strategy, and there is ongoing consultation on implementation. The agency has a remit to be more than a funder, and to also work in partnership across a more cohesive system with researchers, institutions and representative bodies to ensure that the strategy delivers for all disciplines. This work is ongoing. The agency also has a role in supporting higher education institutions in developing research and innovation strategies of their own.  A key action of the strategy is to review existing PhD funding programmes and develop an enhanced suite of programmes, with the ambition to make Ireland the leading location in Europe for PhD training, in partnership with the HEIs and the wider system. The agency is currently undertaking consultation on a proposed strategic institutional funding model, as an evolution of the Government of Ireland programme, which is intended to: reduce the administrative burden for students; provide more security and stability of funding across a course of research or study; address issues in relation to researchers accessing funding for materials or consumables, travel and networking funding; address maternity, paternity and adoptive leave supplements; and enhance long-term planning and institutional capability.  Since February 2026, Research Ireland has conducted more than 20 engagement sessions, including seven in-person AHSS-focused events across the country and two national webinars attended by more than 700 participants. The senior leadership from the agency have met with research leaders and researchers across the country, and with the representative bodies.  The proposed new model would bring the agency funding model for these awards closer to international best practice. The agency funding portfolio is split almost evenly, and it is intended to maintain this balance across the programme plan and agency funding portfolio. Other calls funded or managed by the agency now available to AHSS researchers include: public service fellowships; challenge funding, which is open to all disciplines; and international calls, such as the Research Ireland-UKRI Arts and Humanities Research Council joint call on creative industries.  The agency has prioritised growing investigator-led funding in planning, recognising the increasing demand for investigator-led research funding. The Minister, Deputy Lawless, is aware of these issues, and he met with representatives of the signatories earlier this week to examine the concerns raised. This has been a constructive and positive ongoing engagement, with insight from the research community informing the design of the new programme. There is consensus on what must be protected: excellence, transparency, mobility and disciplinary diversity. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I thank the Minister of State for his response. I appreciate it. I am very happy to hear that international best practice will be applied in this situation. I know from my engagement with PhD researchers that Ireland is not on a par with other countries throughout Europe or internationally. There are challenges with regard to the stipends, although I know they have increased over the past while. There is also the issue of employee status. I am speaking about PhD researchers as distinct from doctoral students, which I was myself. I am not talking about somebody who is a student but somebody who is a researcher. I am talking about a role advertised by an institution that states it wants a PhD researcher. With regard to their employment status, if they do tutorials or other work that needs to be protected for them.  The Minister of State briefly mentioned types of leave. It is very important this is embedded in the contract so they have the possibility of taking sick leave, annual leave or maternity leave. The future progression and careers of researchers afterwards can be precarious. It is very important to mention that when things are industry led or agency led, whether it is in the arts, humanities and social science or STEM, at all times this research has to be independent. Just because it is funded does not mean the research can be influenced by people looking for a particular outcome. Research has to have its independence. It needs to be verifiable and not just focused on only making more money.  I have mentioned previously that I do not think we should be using the word \"talent\" in our discourse. These are people who are researchers and who are valuable members of our community. We need to reduce the use of this word. I appreciate the Minister of State is reading from a script. I have mentioned it in the House previously and I want to say again that we should talk about \"people\" and not \"talent\". They are talented but I ask that the two words are used differently. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Kieran O'Donnell  I thank Deputy Cummins for raising this important matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Lawless. He will ensure her contribution will form part of the ongoing consultation. New opportunities are being created for AHSS through the Research Ireland strategy, supported by additional Government investment to deliver the strategy, including the development of the development of larger-scale initiatives. New opportunities have arisen for researchers through the newly established Global Talent Ireland and other strategic initiatives, such as the INSPIRE programme, to support infrastructure and the investigators programme.  The strategy commits Research Ireland to ongoing consultation and stakeholder partnership, including establishing a formal advisory council which will be predominantly comprised of academics. It will have representation across all disciplines with a focus on AHSS. The Minister, Deputy Lawless, looks forward to working with the agency on realising the ambitions of the new agency strategy for all disciplines, including AHSS, in the coming years. Deputy Cummins has raised particular points in respect of PhD students. It is obviously an area she is familiar with, having been one herself. These are matters that will be brought to the attention of the Department and the Minister. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Research Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_39","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Housing Policy","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_37","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_39","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for selecting this matter for debate. It is something I am very interested in and is something that communities across the State and in my constituency are very interested in. They struggle to understand why we cannot do better on it. It is about access to playing pitches, playgrounds and public green space. In my home county of Meath during the 20 years between 1996 and 2016 the population significantly increased and it continued in this vein until 2022, which is the latest census we have. There are thousands of houses but parks, playgrounds and public playing pitches did not materialise. The truth is that our communities were failed and continue to be failed. During the Celtic tiger developer-led construction and poor planning meant we got dense residential estates but zero public green space. The people of Meath lived up to their side of the agreement. They bought houses, raised families and built communities but local and central government failed to live up to their side.  The Minister of State in his response will likely point to the planning and development Acts, development plans, guidelines for planning authorities, the sustainable residential development and compact settlement guidelines and probably to other planning Acts because we have asked these questions previously. The fact of the matter is that it is not happening. The parks, pitches and playgrounds are not being delivered. The truth is when we ask who is responsible for making it happen we get pointed to somebody else or we get a blank response. We have a siloed planning system and communities right across the State - I am talking about my constituency of Meath East and I live in one of this communities - are being failed. We are being incredibly frustrated by the lack of progress. I am frustrated because this is an issue I am passionate about. It is one I have tried to make constructive contributions about but we are seeing no progress.  Along with colleagues, I launched Delivering Liveable Urban Spaces, Sinn F\u00e9in's policy document, alongside our proposal for a dedicated public park, green space and woodland fund, which we call Ciste Beithe. Our proposals are clear and practical and the Government should listen to them. We want the sequencing of developments, meaning playing pitches, parks, playgrounds and river walks must be delivered in tandem with houses and not put on the long finger. We want funding ring-fenced from development levies and we want green and blue spaces placed on an elevated footing in our county development plans. Most importantly, we want the voice of local communities heard at every step, from design to planning to delivery. If implemented, these proposals would transform County Meath and every other county. They would help us to build communities and not just houses. They would ensure that our children have somewhere safe to play and they would give us a fighting chance of dealing with the policy failures of the past. There needs to be a policy change and a step change to empower local authorities as a matter of priority to deliver on this vital community infrastructure. Will this happen? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Kieran O'Donnell  I take this opportunity to thank Deputy O'Rourke for raising this important matter and providing me with an opportunity to update the House. I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of Deputy James Browne, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage.  Under the Planning and Development Act 2024 local authorities are obliged to prepare and adopt development plans that may make provision for the delivery of recreational facilities and amenities. While the making of a development plan is a reserved function of the elected members of each local authority under the Act, the development plan guidelines for planning authorities of 2022 set out that when making zoning decisions, consideration must be given to the future availability of, or the capacity to provide, supporting local community and amenity services and infrastructure, including recreation and sports facilities.  The sustainable residential development and compact settlements guidelines of 2024 indicate that planning authorities should plan for an integrated network of well-designed neighbourhoods that can meet day-to-day needs, including sporting needs, within a ten- to 15-minute walk of all homes. In the case of larger settlements, the residents of less central neighbourhoods should have the opportunity to travel by public transport, and other sustainable modes such as greenways, to access higher order services and amenities at more central and accessible locations. Section 7.3 of these guidelines sets out that every development plan should include an objective for a community, social and cultural infrastructure audit for areas that are likely to experience significant new development and should have a clear evidence-based rationale for future requirements in order to maximise the social return and community benefit generated by public investment by State agencies and others.  Policy and objective 5.1 of these guidelines states that statutory development plans should include an objective relating to the provision of public open space in new residential developments and in mixed-use developments that include a residential element. The requirement in the development plan shall be for public open space provision of not less than a minimum of 10% of net site area and not more than 15% of net site area, save in exceptional circumstances. Different minimum requirements within the 10% to 15% range may be set for different areas. The guidelines state that public open spaces should be designed to cater for a range of active and passive recreational needs, including play, physical activity, active travel, cultural uses and community gardens and allotments, as appropriate to the context.  The Deputy may be interested to note that Sport Ireland is a prescribed body for the purposes of plan-making in accordance with the Planning and Development (Prescribed Persons - Statutory Plans) Regulations 2025, SI 458 of 2025.  The Office of the Planning Regulator, OPR, is carrying out initial research into sporting facilities and the planning system. As part of this, it is liaising with Sport Ireland and other sporting bodies to examine how local authorities can more effectively plan for the provision of sports and recreational facilities for their communities. With regard to the delivery of such facilities, responsibility for Government policy on sport and the funding and function of Sport Ireland lies with my colleague, the Minister for Culture, Communications and Sport. In accordance with section 63(3) of the Local Government Act 2001, local authorities are independent in the performance of their functions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I am aware of all that detail, and it actually spells out what the problem is. That is the current state of affairs and it is not working. The Minister of State knows this as well as I do. Anyone who is a public representative, and anyone who has an interest in sport, the outdoors or building communities, knows this is not happening at a local authority level or in county development plans. Too much is dependent on a deal being made between a local community and a local developer to provide a pitch as part of a housing development. It is a nonsense. Communities are being failed as a result. In many places, the community facilities never materialise because they are promised and when the houses are delivered, the developer has left. We have to get this right. Too many communities have been failed.  Along with Sinn F\u00e9in colleagues, I met representatives of the GAA. They spoke about the report published by the GAA, No One Shouted Stop - Until Now: The GAA's Response to Ireland's Demographic Shift. This is a document about rural depopulation and rural decline. It is also directly related to massive pressure in urban areas. The representatives spoke about the need for support for balanced rural development and its inclusion in planning policy frameworks. We need to strengthen frameworks. There was a reference to Britain having a 6-acre standard, which local authorities should deliver on. In regard to delivering facilities with the OPR, I welcome this aspect. There is a need to develop an all-island sporting facilities strategy, as is zoning for sport and recreation facilities, as well as funding for sport and recreation facilities.  There are two major issues. One is that the planning rules and guidelines need to be improved. We have 4,000 schools in the State, and there is an ad hoc arrangement for getting access to their sporting and green spaces. This needs to be addressed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Kieran O'Donnell  I thank Deputy O'Rourke again for raising this important matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne. In addition to the need to make provision for recreational facilities within statutory development plans, such facilities may also be funded by development contribution schemes, determined by elected members of each planning authority under section 48 of the Planning and Development Act 2000. Conditions attached to permissions requiring contributions to be made towards such schemes may include open spaces and recreational and community facilities.  The Planning and Development Act 2024 recognises that recreational facilities are best supported through meaningful public participation in local development planning and decision-making. Effective planning is not solely about technical assessments or infrastructure co-ordination; it is also about ensuring communities have a genuine opportunity to shape the future of the places in which they live, work and raise their families.  The Act strengthens the importance of engagement at all stages of the planning process, from the preparation of development plans and local area plans to consultation on individual planning applications and broader regeneration initiatives. As the provisions of the 2024 Act are commenced, meaningful community participation will remain a central element of a modern, democratic and plan-led system that seeks to deliver sustainable development and an improved quality of life for communities across Ireland.  I note the points Deputy O'Rourke has raised. Dare I say it, but they are not just related to one Department. I have no doubt that he will be taking these up with those other Departments as well. I will bring the points the Deputy has raised here to the attention of the Minister, Deputy Browne, and the Department. I thank the Deputy again. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Housing Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_40","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Schools Building Projects","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_37","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  I am joined by my constituency colleagues, from the Opposition and the Government, in relation to this issue. Sancta Maria College got approval for a new school gym and drama room back in 2001. That is 25 years, a quarter of a century, ago. Right now, the school has two half-built structures after the construction company went into liquidation eight years ago. Generations of students have come and gone without the facilities that were promised. Worse still, there are leaks in the roof and difficulties with the sewerage system.  The school has been waiting for more than a year now for a stage 2b report to be responded to by the Department of education. Without the Department's approval, the school cannot move to the tendering process and get the works back on track. The tender process takes long enough without the perpetual delays which dealing with the Department always entails. Will the Minister of State make a commitment to the pupils and teachers from Sancta Maria College that another generation of students will not pass through the school staring at a half-built extension? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Lahart  I thank my colleagues for joining me in bringing this question forward. We do this sometimes in this Chamber. Sancta Maria College is unfinished business. It is an unfinished school. A school without a sports hall is not a school. A school without performance facilities and space and creative space and facilities is not a finished school either. It is what we can call an incomplete school or an uncompleted school, giving, essentially, an incomplete education to the girls who attend there and have attended there for a number of years.  What a school it is, when we look at the students, teachers, the principal, the board of management and the parents council. Through no fault of their own, a building, as was explained earlier, is unfinished and incomplete, yet the school still seems to max out in terms of the success and education it delivers. It remains, however, an incomplete school delivering an incomplete education. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  The issue of a school not having a sports hall is one very close to my heart because I went to the boys' school next door to Sancta Maria College, Col\u00e1iste \u00c9anna, as did Deputy Lahart. For my entire time there, we had no sports hall. It means the school cannot offer PE, which is so important for children's mental and physical health. Even in the time since a sports hall was completed in Col\u00e1iste \u00c9anna, we can see that a basketball club has developed in the area. It is a case of if you build it, they will come. It is such an important asset, not just for the school but for the area too. As the other Deputies have said, this is something that has been completely out of the school\u2019s control. The building project started back in 2018. In 2020, during Covid, the developer, the builder, went bust. In the six years since then, nothing has happened. We now have a derelict site right beside a school. As Deputy Lahart said, we have an incomplete school with incomplete education, but we also have a fairly serious health and safety risk to the school community and the community at large. A small fire was started in that area. There are potential insurance issues for the school because of that. We are just looking for the school to get this building completed, as was promised 25 years ago, as Deputy Crowe said. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Kieran O'Donnell  I thank Deputies Crowe, Lahart and Ahern for raising this important matter on behalf of their constituents. I am taking it on behalf of the Minister for Education and Youth, Deputy Hildegarde Naughton, to outline to the D\u00e1il the current position in relation to the school project for Sancta Maria College, Ballyroan, Rathfarnham, County Dublin.  The completion project for the school referred to by the Deputy is currently at stage 2b, architectural planning-detailed design. The brief is for a completion contract for refurbishment works and a sports hall, following termination of the original contract. The design team completed a stage 2b submission which is currently with the Department for review.  The 105 projects prioritised to proceed to tender and-or construction in 2026 and 2027 represent a first tranche of large-scale extension and modular projects. However, further tranches will be prioritised to proceed at a later stage over what is a five-year national development plan, NDP, with a total investment of \u20ac7.55 billion. The projects selected for the initial tranche were already at stage 3, tender stage, and the most urgent projects at stage 2b, detailed design, that had planning permission. Projects not already at this stage of readiness were not eligible for consideration for the initial tranche. The stage 2b projects selected to progress were identified as meeting the most urgent requirements from a special education, demographics or building condition perspective.  As part of planning ahead for the next tranche of projects to progress to tender, a Department-led prioritisation process will continue over the course of 2026 and 2027. This includes engagement with key stakeholders, and this has commenced recently. The Department-led energy and condition survey of the school estate, which will be finalised later in 2026, will provide an additional evidence base for assessing priorities. A next tranche of projects to proceed to tender is expected to be announced in 2027.  Engagement with individual schools will also continue and will include the consideration of issues such as any interim accommodation requirements and, in some cases, advancing enabling works to facilitate smooth progress to construction at a later stage.  It is important to note that the 105 projects on the initial NDP priority list represent a subset of the overall school building programme. In total, there are 260 to 300 projects under construction at any one time. Over the course of 2026, some 1,000 school projects of varying scales will be under construction. In addition to large-scale extension and modular projects, the projects include climate action projects, summer works and repurposing of rooms for special education classes.  I will bring the specific point raised on behalf of the Deputies' constituents, and more particularly the pupils, staff, parents and wider community, to the attention of the Minister for Education and Youth, Deputy Hildegarde Naughton, and her Department. I can see that this is something of great importance to the Deputies in their representational roles and particularly to the people they represent. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  The big question we ask is why the school has not been prioritised. It is a half-finished school. The Minister of State has outlined the number of projects that are planned and the funding that is being allocated, but the question the parents, teachers and pupils are asking is, \"Why not our school?\" It is a fair question.  Children deserve the best and most modern facilities. We cannot live with a process that can last over 25 years. I again ask the Minister of State to go back to his ministerial colleagues and raise this. The school needs to be put on some list. What is happening is unfair and wrong and I do not think anyone could stand over it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Lahart  I thank the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, for that. I appreciate him bringing back our sentiments to the Minister. Before starting on a new project, why not finish the projects that are outstanding? What is happening is through no fault of the school itself. It is affecting how the school attracts students and how education is provided there. It is affecting enrolment and the school's ability to enrol. It is also affecting wider personal, physical, mental and well-being education. On top of that, the site is a building site. We really appreciate the Minister of State taking on board what we are saying, and we look forward to hearing from and engaging further with the Minister, Deputy Naughton, as the year goes on. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I thank the Minister of State for his comments. The project has been at stage 2B for a considerable period, for the last year in fact, and the school is just waiting to hear back from the Department. We know that another tranche of projects is going to be approved. As the Minister of State said, there will be new projects approved in early 2027. The school wants to know what it needs to do to ensure it is on the list for early 2027. If the Minister of State could arrange a meeting with the Department, it would be helpful. One of the issues the school is having is that it is just not getting anything back from the Department. Even facilitating some communication for the school and ensuring that it can do everything possible to ensure it is next in line for the next tranche would be helpful. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Kieran O'Donnell  Once again, the completion of the building project for Sancta Maria College in Ballyroan is a very important matter. It is currently at stage 2B, architectural planning and detailed design. The brief is a completion contract for refurbishment works and a sports hall, following termination of the original contract. The design team completed a stage 2B submission, which is currently with the Department for review.  As part of planning ahead for the next tranche of projects to progress to tender, a Department-led prioritisation process will continue over the course of 2026 and 2027. This includes engagement with key stakeholders, and this has commenced recently. The Department-led energy and condition survey of the school estate, which will be finalised later in 2026, will provide an additional evidence base for assessing priorities. A next tranche of projects to proceed to tender is expected to be announced in 2027. In the Deputies' follow-up questions, they requested a meeting with the Department. I will take that up with the Minister. I have no doubt that the three experienced politicians raising this matter will follow up with correspondence, directly with the Department and Minister, seeking such a meeting on behalf of their constituents to progress the school building project. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Schools Building Projects"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_41","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Crime Prevention","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_37","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_41","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  I thank the Minister for coming in to take this issue. It is important, particularly in this week of Pride, that we acknowledge there are still issues concerning the LGBT community and the confidence it might have in the prosecution of offences or the following up of allegations related to events that clearly have a hate motivation to them.  In June 2024, when I was a Senator, I raised an issue in the Seanad about two young men who were pursued through Phoenix Park with hammers and knives and who were very frightened, for understandable reasons, by an attack during which there were repeated shouts of homophobic slurs at them. I do not want to or expect the Minister to go into the details of that case because I do not know the status of the prosecution. People were brought before the courts in relation to the matter, and that is a matter for the courts. The point I wanted to make was that I raised that issue. I give credit to the garda\u00ed involved for acting swiftly. Somebody was apprehended, and that will follow due course. The point I am making is that in Ireland of 2024, or indeed Ireland of 2026, the kind of thing I have described is still happening.  In 2024, there was still hate crime, hate speech or incitement to hatred legislation before these Houses that was due to become law. It was essentially watered down before it did and it has been abandoned.  There are those people who think it is acceptable to behave in a way that threatens and frightens members of a particular community, not for any good reason but simply because they are members of that community, and they think they can do that with impunity. Of course, we have incitement to hatred legislation dating back to the early 1990s, which we know is largely ineffective because there has only been a sum total of about 50 prosecutions under it. Of course it is an offence to intimidate somebody anyway. It is an offence to threaten somebody. There were ancillary offences in that prosecution that were not necessarily based on the hate crime element of it.  My understanding is that very often in these cases, when people are brought before the Garda for interview or brought before the courts to account for what they have done, they will say their action was not hate motivated and was not because the victims were members of the LGBT community, for example. My concern is that the law is not equipped to address the hate element properly. Listening to members of the LGBT community, I have noted that they are concerned that garda\u00ed are either ill-equipped or unable to deal with these matters in a way that satisfies them that they are safe.  I know the Minister will agree that this is something we have to remedy. We cannot have a situation where ordinary, law-abiding, decent people are being persecuted by a tiny section of society that has some misguided belief that it should or can pursue these people, as I say, not for any good reason but simply because of who they are and, in this instance, because of their sexual orientation. It cannot be allowed to continue. It must be stopped.  The reason I am raising this issue with the Minister is not just because this is Pride Week, although it is and so it is appropriate. I would really like him to set out the steps his Department is putting in place to give confidence to the LGBT community, and to show them in a concrete manner that we are serious as a body politic about tackling this issue and sending out a message to anybody who thinks he or she can behave this way that it will not be tolerated, that there will be prosecutions, that there will be serious consequences from the courts, and that the Minister is satisfied that An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the criminal court system have everything they need to prosecute these offences, hold people to account and mete out the appropriate punishments that will be effective in stopping this kind of behaviour. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I thank Deputy Ward for raising this issue. It is appropriate that he raises it during Pride week. Part of the reason we have Pride week is not just for the purpose of people being able openly to celebrate their sexuality, but also to recognise that historically people who were gay were suppressed and were not able to express their sexuality within society in the way that other people could do. It is therefore very appropriate that Deputy Ward has raised this issue. I should also inform the House that I have just come from the Seanad, where I am very pleased to say that Committee Stage of the Criminal Law, Civil Law and Defence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026 has passed. It included, as the Deputy knows, and because he spoke very much in favour of it, a disregard scheme that is going to disregard historic convictions made against persons because of their sexuality.  It is shocking that any previous generation or the current generation would seek to discriminate against a person because of an inherent characteristic, whether it is their race or religion, or, in this context, their sexual orientation.  Not just from what the Deputy has said but from gay friends speaking to me, I am concerned about the fact that we seem to be regressing when it comes to abusive comments being made about individuals who are gay. In many instances, that emanates from individuals who are youths or children. As the Deputy and I know, it is founded upon ignorance and prejudice. In terms of the laws that are in place, however, the primary focus of concern the Deputy has raised is around what laws are there and whether I  am satisfied with what the Department and the Garda can do where that abuse becomes physically threatening, incites violence or leads to the commission of violence. As the Deputy knows, in 2024, the Criminal Justice (Hate Offences) Act was commenced. It was commenced at the end of 2024 and has put in place a separate statutory provision which provides that if somebody is convicted of an offence such as assault which is motivated by hate, as in the instance of somebody being assaulted because they were gay, that will result in an increased tariff that can be imposed by the court when that person is being sentenced. I very much welcome that legislation. We need to give it time to bed in. The Deputy will be aware that we are seeing circumstances where the hate factor is being taken into account by the courts or during the course of the prosecutions. That is one thing that is being done.  More important than that is the resources of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. Historically, the Garda, like many other police forces around the world, may not have been sufficiently sensitive to these types of offences or may not have recognised that they are offences that are motivated by hate. I must say that has now changed. The Garda now has approximately 666 diversity officers. They are very well informed. They recognise the need to ensure there is greater protection for individuals, such as gay people, who find themselves being subjected to a criminal assault. I am satisfied with the resources that are in place.  The Deputy also mentioned hate speech. We have incitement to hatred legislation in place and I believe it is sufficient. I also believe, however, that the origin of this prejudice and discrimination is ignorance. We need to educate people more about the inappropriateness of condemning, criticising or abusing people because of an inherent characteristic such as their human sexuality. There is a broader body of work that needs to be done outside of the criminal justice system, as I am sure the Deputy appreciates. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  I thank the Minister and appreciate the acknowledgment that this behaviour is ongoing. It is important to say clearly that there is a problem. I also appreciate what the Minister said about the legislation that was passed and commenced in 2024. However, I am not convinced that it is sufficient. What it does is to give greater discretion to a judge to consider a particular hate element to be an aggravating factor. There is certainly a part of me that would have thought it should not have been necessary to put that into law. I do not know, for example, what training is being provided to judges to deal with hate aspects of crimes that come before them for sentence.  My big problem is that we had much stronger hate legislation with the Bill that was before these Houses. It was watered down in amendments on subsequent Stages. There is not really the provision of a hate crime. It is probably unfair to ask the Minister on the hoof the number of prosecutions that involved an increased tariff on sentence because of a hate element. I do not know if the Minister would have those figures to hand. However, that is a matter we should be looking at because if it is the case that it is a very small number, that is a demonstration that legislation that is now on the Statute Book and has been operational for 18 months is not being effectively used to tackle these things. Of course, we have to give it time but an analysis after 18 months gives us a reasonable assessment of whether the legislation is being used.  I also acknowledge what the Minister said about disregard scheme. I absolutely agree with that, and it is overdue, but it is not relevant to this discussion. Of course we send out the message to people but the real issue in this Topical Issue I am raising with the Minister is that a lot of people who are members of the LGBT community either do not feel safe or feel that when something happens to them, which is demonstrably motivated by hate, there is not an adequate response from the system. That is something we have to tackle because if we fail to do so, it creates a much greater problem. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jim O'Callaghan  I thank the Deputy. It is worthwhile having this debate and discussion. My own view, as Minister for justice, is that An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, which is responsible for investigating the types of criminal offences to which the Deputy referred, is vigilant and aware of ensuring thorough investigations in respect of crimes that are motivated by hate. We see that in respect of people who are gay. We see it in respect of people because of their race. Once somebody assaults another person or commits a crime against that person, there must be an absolute commitment by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to ensure that the crime is thoroughly investigated.  I regret to say that many crimes such as these in Ireland are motivated by the ignorance and prejudice of the attacker. It is difficult to determine the best way to reduce and respond to ignorance and prejudice in any society. The criminal justice system obviously plays a necessary role and I believe by having the hate offences legislation in place, we have that criminal justice response. The policing response is also necessary. When you look at the fact that we have 666 diversity officers, and the Garda takes these offences extremely seriously, it shows there is a policing response to it. Ultimately, the most significant response will be ensuring that people who are drowned in prejudice realise their prejudice emanates from a position and a place of ignorance. We all have a responsibility to try to emphasise again and again that discrimination, harassment or criminal attacks upon individuals because of inherent characteristics, such as their sexuality, is wholly unacceptable. Once that is explained to people, and it should be repeatedly explained to them because they need to be educated about it, there will be a positive response. I assure the Deputy that there is a vigilant legislative and policing response to these heinous crimes. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Crime Prevention"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-25\/debate\/dbsect_42","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/79","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/79\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Against Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill 2025: Second Stage [Private Members] (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Against Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill 2025: Second Stage [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":11,"speakerCount":8},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_42","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\"  I am delighted to be moving the Second Reading motion for this important Bill. I am particularly moved to be doing so today in the presence of some important visitors in the Gallery. I acknowledge the presence in particular of Mr. William Gorry of the Residential Institutions Survivors' Network and Mr. David Ryan. I also acknowledge Mr. Ryan's late brother, Mr. Mark Ryan. They did so much between them to expose the reality of abuse in schools. I also acknowledge Ms Deirdre Kenny, CEO of One in Four. I acknowledge those visitors. I should also say that I have been working with many other survivors and their families. Many have come forward to me over recent days and many are watching the debate on this Bill on Oireachtas TV.  I will begin by saluting the courage of all those survivors who have spoken out, disclosed and shone a light on a dark and shameful chapter in the history of this country in highlighting the reality of their lived experience of abuse as children. Indeed, I acknowledge the many survivors who cannot speak out for other reasons and who continue to suffer. We all think of them and what they have endured.  It is in that context that I am glad to be moving the Second Reading of this Bill. If passed, it will be an Act to facilitate the bringing of child sexual abuse proceedings against unincorporated bodies of persons. It seeks to enable such a body to pay damages arising from such proceedings and from the assets of an associated trust, to extend the limitation period arising from claims of child sexual abuse and to provide for connected matters. This Bill creates what I have been referring to as an \"unblocking mechanism\". Its purpose is to unblock the process of seeking redress from religious bodies and associated lay-run trusts. It would facilitate the bringing of child sexual abuse proceedings against unincorporated bodies of persons, notably religious orders, and would empower survivors to recover damages arising from such proceedings, not only from the orders but also from the assets of an associated trust in certain circumstances. It would extend the limitation period provided for by the Statute of Limitations in respect of civil proceedings arising from claims of child sexual abuse.  This is a Bill I have been working on for some years. In a previous life as a practising barrister, I represented many survivors of abuse before what was then known as the Residential Institutions Redress Board, which operated in the 1990s into the 2000s, as the Minister will be aware. These were proceedings arising out of abuse perpetrated, in most cases, against children in industrial schools. I will never forget hearing about the experiences of the survivors I represented, the utterly chilling accounts of the terrible abuse they suffered at the hands of both religious and lay figures employed in industrial schools, many of which were run by religious orders. The experiences were shocking. Desperate damage, harm and hurt were caused to many people. Individuals spoke to me of suicidal ideation as a result of their childhood experiences, of their ongoing difficulties in sustaining relationships and of their fears of passing on the effects of the trauma they had suffered to their children. At the time, it was important that the State made attempts to ensure redress.  The Minister will recall, as I do, the difficulties with the Woods cap on the amount of redress to be paid by the religious orders in the 2002 deal. Quite apart from that cap, however, the scheme was also flawed in other ways, and victims were retraumatised by being dragged through lengthy and unnecessarily adversarial proceedings. In the context of the 2002 Woods deal and subsequent attempts to secure contributions to redress from religious orders, we have seen successive Governments - the State - bearing the vast bulk of the cost of redress. Of course, the State remains responsible. Religious orders were also responsible, but they have got away with paying nothing like their fair share. The Woods deal applied a cap of \u20ac128 million. The total cost of the Residential Institutional Redress Board scheme is now estimated at \u20ac1.5 billion.  I am working with a number of survivors groups to improve the State\u2019s response to dealing with the awful legacy of church-State collusion against some of the most vulnerable members of Irish society, particularly children. I am also working with groups like the Residential Institutions Survivor's Network, which I have spoken about and on behalf of which I recently wrote to the Taoiseach and the Ministers for education and Social Protection. That group has identified a litany of flaws in current State redress schemes and schemes to support victims. Survivors are often retraumatised by their exclusion through application of apparently arbitrary rules, inadequate redress processes or simply by unduly bureaucratic and insufficiently compassionate responses such as a helpline that does not deal in a compassionate and kind way with survivors who contact it. That is the kind of basic thing the State should be getting right.  We heard this week from 19 of the women who were abused by Leo Hickey in Dunderrow National School but who were excluded from redress schemes, so there is a great deal to do to ensure that the State\u2019s response to the legacy of child abuse is survivor led and that the State is kind and compassionate in its approach to those who are now adults but who were abused as children. Much of the work to deliver justice has also been stymied by the religious orders by means of obfuscation, delaying tactics and the deployment of entirely legal but unethical devices which have the effect of them avoiding paying their share of redress.  The Bill stems from my desire to do right by survivors. It is my belief and that of the Labour Party that no organisation, church or State, should be able to hide from or escape accountability. For many years, we have been aware of the practice whereby religious orders have shifted their assets into lay-run trusts that have no legal liability to survivors. The orders which have the liability have much fewer trusts that can be targeted. I hasten to add that the legislation I am proposing is not limited to religious orders. It would apply to all unincorporated bodies, including sports clubs, political parties and so on. Clearly, what we are seeking to address is the deployment of what we might refer to as lawfare, that is, legal tactics deployed with a detrimental effect. Such tactics are used by religious orders in particular. The orders are using the law to frustrate the efforts of those seeking redress for terrible damage inflicted on them in childhood. Lay-run trusts that hold the assets bear no legal liability and, therefore, the State lacks leverage when it seeks to recover a proportion of redress from the religious orders.  I spoke about the 2002 deal, but there have been numerous attempts since then by the State to recover a share of compensation or redress from the religious orders. There have been attempts to secure voluntary contributions from the religious orders. There was Sheila Nunan's process, but none of these processes have delivered anything like the share of redress we would expect from religious orders that are serious about meeting obligations.  Religious orders must answer serious ethical questions about how they have engaged with the State and with survivors of abuse. One of the first moral lessons any of us teach our children, regardless of faith, relates to the need for honesty when we have done wrong and the need to step up, admit we have done wrong and ensure accountability. We cannot say the response of religious orders to historical sex abuse of children has embodied that principle. These are sneaky tactics being used by institutions that purport to show moral leadership in our society. Appeals to the moral duties of religious orders have clearly not worked. I refer to the processes we have seen over the years in which religious orders have not stepped up.  A recent study in The Sunday Times estimated that \u20ac755 million in compensation to victims of abuse is still outstanding from religious orders. Meanwhile, EY compiled a recent study, which I understand was commissioned by the Minister's Department, which found that a sample of religious orders hold \u20ac1.3 billion in assets. The money is there and the assets are there, and we are talking about the most heinous of crimes perpetrated against children. It seems that religious orders are displaying more concern for their reputations and the bottom line than they are for victims. It is the job of the Government and legislators to make sure that religious orders cannot continue to deploy this indefensible practice.  I brought forward this Bill - I have spoken about it in the House on several occasions - in an attempt to be constructive and to ensure we do our bit to make sure that religious orders pay their share. I welcome that the Government has established a high-level interdepartmental group to advise it in respect of the funding of future redress claims in the same way that I welcomed the establishment of the commission of investigation into abuse in schools. It will be quite a long process before the commission reports, and we have heard that the interdepartmental group's report is not due until May 2027. I welcomed the Taoiseach\u2019s confirmation on Tuesday that he will make efforts to bring forward the date of the of the interdepartmental group\u2019s report, because May 2027 is a long way off. Survivors who have waited decades for justice should not be kept waiting any longer than is absolutely necessary.  That is why, while I welcomed the commitment by the Taoiseach to bring forward the date of the publication of the group's report, I was disappointed to hear him say that the Government will seek to impose a six-month delay on the Second Stage reading of this Bill. Not only am I disappointed, I do not understand it. I published this Bill years ago. It has been nearly two years since I was told that the previous Government had referred it to the Attorney General\u2019s office for consideration. I introduced the Bill on First Stage in December, and the Taoiseach has said it aligns with Government priorities. The T\u00e1naiste spoke just this week about the need to ensure that religious orders pay their share. Why does the Government need to delay the Second Stage reading for a further six months?  We in the Labour Party are happy to work with the Minister and his team to scrutinise the Bill in order to make sure that it passes muster and that the mechanisms in it to ensure accountability of religious orders and associated trusts are watertight. We are happy to accept amendments and to work with the Minister to see the Bill become law, but we do not believe another six months will be required before it can move to the Committee Stage.  I asked the Minister previously about bringing forward a Bill like this. He indicated that he would wait for recommendations from the Law Reform Commission. He will see that in the explanatory memorandum of our Bill, we refer to the consultation paper on unincorporated associations published previously by the Law Reform Commission. The report is still awaited, but we have used the consultation paper and what has been done already in drafting this Bill and can see no reason \u2013 legal or political \u2013 for the kind of can-kicking that a six-month delay represents.  I return to the matter of the courage of survivors. Over decades, extraordinarily brave people have come forward to expose this dark chapter. That disclosure comes at a personal cost. Survivors should not have to go public with their stories in order to see action taken. They should not have to go public only to be told to wait longer for recognition. The Dunderrow women spoke of abuse in respect of which a conviction was secured in 1998, yet they are still waiting for redress. Survivors have spoken out to ensure that the State will confront the appalling abuse perpetrated against them and other children in schools and institutions, many of which were run by religious orders.  We want to do more than praise and pay tribute to survivors. We want to ensure that they get justice. In many cases, survivors have tried to pursue justice through the courts but have found themselves thwarted by legal structures that frustrate accountability and that obstruct the taking of legal action through the use of unincorporated associations. There is no justification for seeking a further six-month delay.  We simply cannot support that and we will be challenging that attempt, if indeed that is what the Minister will propose.  I mentioned the 19 women who have come forward in the past few days to speak about their abuse in Dunderrow National School. We have also recently heard other terrible accounts of abuse of children in the past. We were reminded of this with the death last week of the notorious abuser Bill Kenneally. We were reminded by the RT\u00c9 documentary that highlighted the appalling decades perpetrated by Eamonn Cooke upon his victims and we heard this week of the conviction in the North of Jeffrey Donaldson. Again and again these stories of the abuse of power against children have exposed a deep trauma that exists in Irish society. We are all aware that when the commission of investigation reports - I think it is not due to until 2030 - it will provide another indication of the huge extent of the abuse that was perpetrated against children.  Fortunately, we have reformed procedures and processes and Ireland and Irish schools and institutions are much safer now. We have made this society safer for children but we must accept there is unfinished business. One such piece of unfinished is the shortfall in compensation left unpaid by religious organisations that have cash and property assets running into the billions. We are asking the Minister to do the right thing and ensure we can see this Bill go through to the next Stage. We will work with him through Committee and Report Stages to get it into law. It aligns with Government priorities, will not cost the State a cent and will indeed facilitate leverage for the State in negotiations with the religious orders where currently there is no mechanism to ensure they can be made to pay compensation. This will provide such a mechanism and that is why I speak of it as an unblocking mechanism. I am asking the Minister to do right by survivors and to pass this Bill rather than delaying it for a further six months. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I move amendment No. 1:  To delete all words after \"That\" and substitute the following:  \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann resolves that the Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Against Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill 2025 be deemed to be read a second time this day six months, to allow for the consideration of the legal and policy implications of the Bill's provisions to be undertaken.\".  I thank Deputy Bacik for introducing this Bill. Like her I welcome to the Public Gallery William Gorry, David Ryan and Deirdre Kenny. At the end of her contribution, Deputy Bacik referred to survivors and it is appropriate we, as legislators, recognise the very significant impact survivors can have on policy and legislation through their bravery in coming forward and providing further information in respect of the trauma they went through. Sometimes I do not think survivors and victims of crime recognise the impact and influence they have. They may not realise how influential they are when it comes to the consequences of their narratives but Deputy Bacik will agree with me when I say it is hugely influential from the point of view of legislators. I assure them also that from the point of view of a Minister, policy is very much affected by the narratives I hear from victims of crime and survivors of sexual abuse.  As Deputy Bacik indicated, her Bill seeks to facilitate civil proceedings in respect of child sexual abuse cases against unincorpororated bodies, such as religious orders, and to facilitate the recovery of damages awarded from any such body, including from any trusts associated with it. It also seeks - and this is a more complicated provision - to provide for a one-year window outside the normal limitation period provided for in the Statute of Limitations to enable any proceedings to which the Bill would apply to be brought within 12 months, if enacted. That latter provision is a significant one, as I am sure the Deputy appreciates, and is part of the reason there is a necessity for me to seek a six-month adjournment prior to the Bill moving to the next Stage. In fairness to the Deputy, I think she acknowledges most religious orders select a nominee to represent them in child sexual abuse cases but, unfortunately, this is not always the case. The refusal of some religious orders, or, indeed, any unincorporated bodies, to co-operate with or contribute to previous redress schemes is a matter of considerable trauma and distress for survivors of sexual abuse and their families. It is a difficult and concerning aspect of this awful legacy. I assure the House the Government and I share the dissatisfaction expressed by the Deputy about this issue and I also wish to inform the House this Government is actively looking at possible avenues to ensure those responsible for the running of the schools where sexual abuse occurred are accountable.  In that regard, I will give a brief overview of the work currently being undertaken in this area. A commission of investigation into the handling of historical child sexual abuse in schools has been established following the publication of the report of a scoping inquiry by Mary O\u2019Toole SC in September 2024. That is an example of the impact survivors have had on policy-making because it was as a result of the documentary made by RT\u00c9, inspired by the experience of David and the late Mark Ryan, that the aforementioned scoping inquiry was established, leading in turn to the establishment of a commission of investigation. The commission, which is chaired by Mr. Justice Michael MacGrath, is independent in the performance of its functions and is currently in its establishment phase undertaking essential preparatory work. The task of the inquiry is huge. Four commissioners have been appointed to join the chair in leading the work of the commission, namely, Ms Justice Mary Ellen Ring, Mr. Roddy Bourke, Ms Michele Clarke and Mr. Kieran McGrath.  The report of the interdepartmental group established to advise the Minister and the Government on the recommendations of the scoping inquiry was published in July 2025. This report was cognisant of the views of survivors in relation to redress as a measure of accountability. Recommendation 2 of that scoping inquiry stated consideration should be given by the Government to establishing a redress scheme for survivors of historical sexual abuse in day and boarding schools run by the religious orders. Not only was that recommendation given consideration by Government but we abided by it and followed it and as a result we have the commission of investigation in place. The interdepartmental group recognised consideration of a redress scheme may have far-reaching implications and advised a further phase of more detailed work was required to ensure Government is fully informed in any decision it may take. In considering this recommendation, an interdepartmental subgroup of the interdepartmental group was set up in November 2025 to examine the complex issues in establishing such a scheme, including how it might be funded. This subgroup comprises representatives from several Government Departments, State agencies and representatives from the Office of the Attorney General. The purpose of the work of this group is to examine and evaluate key legal and other potential measures to require that those responsible for schools where sexual abuse occurred meet their redress obligations to survivors. This is with a view to informing Government of its findings on possible mechanisms for redress. The subgroup aims to report to the Minister for Education and Youth, and subsequently Government, by May 2027. As Deputies can imagine, the issues to be considered in this area are extremely difficult and time-consuming. This work includes consideration of complicated administrative, legal, financial and other mechanisms, including how any potential scheme might be appropriately funded by those responsible. It also includes examination of international approaches to redress, including models in Ireland, other common law and EU jurisdictions.  The underlying aims of Deputy Bacik's Bill align in part with the matters currently being considered by the interdepartmental subgroup. Many of these complex legal, policy and operational considerations are relevant to those contained in the Bill. Given the intricate and challenging nature of these issues, many aspects of this Bill raise legal and constitutional considerations which must be thoroughly examined and approved by the Office of the Attorney General. By way of illustration, the Bill raises complex issues in respect of the apportionment of liability on unincorporated bodies, measures regarding the associated trusts of unincorporated bodies and trusts formerly associated with an unincorporated body. The area of unincorporated bodies and associations is exceptionally complex in law. To that end, in 2022 the Law Reform Commission published a consultation paper entitled Liability of Clubs, Societies and other Unincorporated Associations. It sought submissions from the public. The report of the Law Reform Commission will be important to the development of the law in this area.  To give the House a sense of how complex the issues regarding unincorporated bodies are, my Department understands that the Law Reform Commission\u2019s report will not be published before early 2028.  The Bill provides for the nomination of a proper defendant by an unincorporated body or, if no such nomination is forthcoming, for the court to appoint a proper defendant. The reason Deputy Bacik has included this is that if there is a legal person who can be sued, whether it is a corporate identity or an individual, that is the appropriate way to go. Unfortunately, in the case of an unincorporated body or a loose association of people, it is difficult to sue that identity unless a representative name is provided. In most instances, as I said, unincorporated bodies that are defendants or intended defendants will provide a representative name. However, as Deputy Bacik is aware, that is not always the case. It places a litigant who wants to institute proceedings in a difficult position if they are not given a representative name that can be used as the representative defendant in any proceedings. The effect is that people\u2019s proceedings are delayed and they may have to go through a complicated court application based on no statutory regime to grant them authority from the court to issue proceedings against an individual who may be identified by the court. The advantage of Deputy Bacik\u2019s Bill, if enacted, is that there would be a statutory mechanism that sets out a procedure for how the court can nominate or identify a person who will be the nominated defendant for the purpose of proceedings.  The Bill provides for the nomination of a proper defendant by an unincorporated body or, if no such nomination is forthcoming for the court, to appoint a proper defendant. The apportionment of direct liability on individuals, who have no knowledge of an allegation or may not have been associated with the relevant body at the time of the alleged harm, raises serious issues regarding constitutionality and fair procedures that must be thoroughly examined.  It is easier in circumstances where a partnership is being sued. While it itself is an unincorporated identity, if a partnership of solicitors or accountants needs to be sued, the appropriate mechanism is to name all of the partners. There can only be a limited number. However, the difficultly that arises, which is inspiring Deputy Bacik\u2019s Bill, is when it comes to an identity such as a religious order. To be frank, it is implausible to try to institute proceedings against every single member of that religious order, particularly when there is a requirement for the purpose of proceedings that court papers, whether plenary summons or statements of claim, are served on each defendant. It is clearly the case that there is a huge advantage in having a statutory mechanism available that allows the court to nominate an appropriate individual as the nominated defendant.  It is also important to point out, however, as I mentioned earlier, that the Bill raises practical and legal concerns regarding prospective knowledge of awards of damages and issues in relation to the retrospective effect of the legislation, including for cases already initiated and live before the courts.  More importantly, the Bill proposes a one-year window outside the limitation period provided for in the Statute of Limitations to enable any proceedings to which the Bill applies to be brought within 12 months of its enactment. It would also appear to revive expired causes of action. Reform of the Statute of Limitations would have implications for the State, not just the cohort identified in the Bill. In effect, one of the complicating and complex issues raised and provided for in Deputy Bacik\u2019s Bill is that cases that are, at present, statute-barred would no longer be statute-barred in certain circumstances because of this one-year extension provided to the statute, pursuant to the terms of this Bill. As Deputy Bacik will appreciate, this is a complex legal and constitutional issue. Given the legal policy and constitutional complexity of the issues contained in the Bill and those currently being examined by the interdepartmental subgroup, the views of the Office of the Attorney General were sought again. It indicated that there are significant and complex policy and legal issues that require further in-depth analysis.  Deputy Bacik inquired what the reason is for a six-month timed amendment. For the purpose of individuals in the Gallery, a timed amendment means there is a vote on the Second Stage of the Bill, and I am proposing a timed amendment of six months. The effect of that will mean that the legislation will pass Second Stage on the 25 December 2026. It puts a time period on it and ensures that Second Stage will be passed. While that time will pass quickly, it provides my Department and the Office of the Attorney General with an opportunity to consider the complex legal issues identified here. I know Deputy Bacik will be anxious to ensure that this legislation proceeds promptly. Certainly, it will pass Second Stage by the end of the year. During that period, I will have an opportunity to secure further advice from the Office of the Attorney General and internally within my Department. I was the person who proposed at government on Tuesday that we have a timed amendment. In general, as colleagues will know, timed amendments generally operate for a period of a year but I sought six months in this instance. Having that time period will enable me to get the necessary advice that I require. I assure Deputy Bacik that if there are mechanisms to advance her legislation, I will have no difficulty in advancing them or adopting the Bill and trying to reformulate it if some changes are needed.  I conclude by saying that I brought the memorandum to Government seeking approval for this Bill be read a Second Time on this day six months to allow for consideration of the legal and policy implications of provisions of the Bill. I confirm this was endorsed by Cabinet. I thank Deputy Bacik and commend her on the legislation. I recognise its importance. Although this measure may only be necessary in limited circumstances, it is nonetheless a statutory provision that should be in place to enable people to bring proceedings. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I begin by saying how proud I am that the Labour Party and my colleague, Deputy Bacik, are bringing forward this Bill today. I also welcome the visitors to the Public Gallery. This is a Bill about fairness, accountability and justice. It is a Bill that is rooted in the bravery of survivors who have refused to be silent and simply roll over and take whatever paltry offers come their way.  This country\u2019s history during the last century was, for far too many of its citizens, one of abuse and failure. We are all too aware of the many revelations that have emerged and continue to emerge in recent decades. We have all heard the horrific stories of what was inflicted on innocent children and women behind the high walls of religious institutions in cities, towns and villages across this island. We will never know the real extent of the lives destroyed by institutional abuse during those dark decades. There is a moral obligation on this State and us, as legislators, sitting in our national Parliament to do by right by survivors. Successive governments have recognised that moral imperative. That is what led to the redress schemes that followed the Ryan report, the report on the mother and baby and county homes and other reports. Many of those schemes have been deeply flawed and have, at times, retraumatised victims and their families. Indeed, my wife, Maeve O\u2019Rourke, and her colleagues in Justice for Magdalenes Research and the Clann Project have been to the forefront in advocating for justice for survivors of Magdalene laundries and mother and baby homes. They advocate for redress schemes that are not exclusionary and that live up to the promises of the reports and recommendations that proceeded them.  The redress schemes introduced have at least showed an understanding on the part of the State that there was a wrong to be righted. The attitude, meanwhile, of certain religious orders has fallen short of that. We have seen the reports of mixed engagement from religious orders on redress. We have heard the stories right from the mouths of the brave survivors who have had to go through the difficult retraumatising experience of the courts to get the redress they are owed. We know that many of the orders that facilitated, enabled and covered up child sexual abuse for years and years continue to hide behind the legal fiction of lay-run trusts to escape accountability for the horrors they caused.  There is a veil of fog around the financial affairs of these orders that is troubling. The total value of assets held by religious congregations, orders and institutions is unknown, despite a number of official processes that sought to estimate these resources. After the mother and baby homes report was published, negotiations with eight religious bodies involved in those institutions sought to secure financial contributions.  Only two organisations responded to requests for specific financial information and five did not offer any contribution. We know these are wealthy organisations. An analysis of the financial returns provided by a sample group of religious congregations to the Charities Regulator has shown that collectively they have had approximately \u20ac1.3 billion in cash and other assets.  What we are really talking about here is impunity. These are wealthy, powerful groups of people who protected abusers in their ranks and now protect themselves from the consequences. I have to say, having gone to one of their schools, the Christian Brothers, CBs, are notorious. It seems that as a policy they do not nominate a defendant to a court case. They use their unincorporated status to avoid accountability. It is sickening to see.  This Bill is about saying, \"No more.\" We should not have to accept this. Survivors should not have to accept it. We clearly cannot rely on any spirit of Christian charity from these orders. It is time to get tough and to get survivors the redress they deserve. We can start to legislate for that here this evening if the Government chooses to support this important Bill. The Bill will enable the recovery of damages from these religious orders and the lay-run trusts into which they have moved their assets. No longer will the grubby practice of lay-run trusts shielding orders from providing redress be possible. In short, it would deliver accountability at last.  I welcome some of the comments made by the Minister and the encouraging noises from the Taoiseach earlier this week about Deputy Bacik's Bill and how it aligns with Government priorities. This day six months will obviously be Christmas Day. I put it to the Minister that in deferring the Bill for six months, he is acting as the anti-Santa. He is delaying justice. I appreciate it is a complex issue but we have been talking about this for a long time. I urge the Minister to put all his resources into getting the complex legal issues at the heart of this Bill sorted as quickly as possible, and deliver accountability and justice for survivors at long last who just cannot keep waiting. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill and thank Deputy Bacik and the Labour Party for bringing it forward. Sinn F\u00e9in supports this legislation and any step towards ensuring that survivors of institutional abuse can finally access the justice they have been denied for so long. I welcome the visitors to the Gallery.  For decades, survivors have shown immense courage in their fight for recognition and redress. They have campaigned tirelessly to break the silence of a shameful chapter in our history. Sinn F\u00e9in has consistently stood with them, as we did when we brought forward amendments to the Supports for Survivors of Residential Institutional Abuse Bill to provide for a contributory State pension, a full Health (Amendment) Act, HAA, medical card and other supports to reflect the intergenerational trauma suffered. Another amendment I proposed at that time was commensurate compensation from religious orders, that \"Within 6 months of the passing of this Act, the Minister shall prepare a comprehensive plan to deliver commensurate compensation from Religious Orders, this to include a consideration of every avenue of recourse and a timeline of engagements and actions, in pursuit of the public good.\". That was an amendment that we proposed, but the Government had other plans. Those plans serve only to delay and deny.  I listened to the Minister. I do not know if he was going for a record in terms of mentioning the word \"complex\" in one D\u00e1il statement. I am not legally qualified. I think I am the first person to speak on this so far who is not legally qualified. I recognise that these issues are complex but when I hear complexity, I hear a bureaucratic governmental language that serves only to delay. Let us act with haste here and pursue these issues aggressively to deliver justice. That is not to do a disservice to the complexity of them at all.  The Bill before us is a direct response to repeated failures by the State to compel religious orders and other unincorporated bodies to pay their fair share. It is a further stain on this Government that it has taken so long to act. Successive Administrations have failed to hold these institutions accountable, leaving survivors to navigate a labyrinth of legal obstacles while religious orders engaged in legal and financial manoeuvring to shield their assets, which, I believe, is a deliberate conscious decision on their part.  The core of this Bill is about ending that evasion. It will allow civil proceedings to be brought directly against unincorporated bodies and remove the absurd legal barrier that has prevented survivors from suing organisations directly. Importantly, it provides a mechanism to access the assets of associated trusts, preventing orders from hiding behind complex structures to avoid their responsibilities. This aligns with Sinn F\u00e9in's stated position that everything must be on the table, including legal action and the seizure of assets, to ensure these institutions, orders and organisations contribute to redress.  For too long, the Government has offered only tea and sympathy. The State has failed survivors in their early years and has continued to fail them in their later years. Today, we have a chance to right a wrong. The Government should allow this Bill to progress, with no six-month delay. If there are technical concerns, they can be addressed in committee. What cannot be countenanced is further obstruction or delay. It is incumbent on the Government to facilitate the Bill's scrutiny through the relevant Oireachtas sectoral committee. This is a reasonable request.  The interdepartmental group, IDG, is examining redress for historical sexual abuse in schools. In recent responses to me, the Minister for education said that the IDG is examining the mechanisms that can be brought to bear to ensure that any future redress scheme is appropriately funded by those who were responsible for the schools where child sexual abuse took place. These mechanisms may include any administrative, legal, financial or other processes that can assist Government in its consideration of the issue of redress and how any scheme to be considered might be funded by those responsible for schools where sexual abuse occurred.  We do not know what will come of this review but time is of the essence and we cannot countenance any unnecessary delay. Most importantly, this cannot be a case of tinkering at the edges. This has to be ambitious and aggressive in its pursuit of what is right; that those who perpetrated these harms are held accountable. It is a matter of justice.  Any future redress scheme must be funded properly by those responsible and this Bill is a helpful tool to achieve that. I urge all sides of the House to support its passage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  First of all, I thank my colleague and party leader, Deputy Bacik, for bringing this Bill forward. I also welcome the visitors to the Gallery.  This Bill is timely for two reasons. It is timely because it addresses one of the most disgusting and hideous aspects of our shameful past, namely, the abuse perpetuated by religious orders and facilitated by the State. Many religious orders hold substantial wealth, particularly in terms of property and land, yet many refuse to engage and refuse to pay compensation for the horrendous damage they inflicted on poor innocent undeserving people. This Bill is also timely because in the week in which it has come up for debate, we have seen the conviction of two vile paedophiles who were two men in positions of authority and influence - Leo Hickey and Jeffrey Donaldson.  For decades, the State has grappled with the dark, painful and deeply stained legacy of institutional abuse. We have sat in this Chamber and listened to statements. We have listened to apologies and we have all read reports. We read the reports into the mother and baby homes. Some of us read the Ryan report. Time and again, we have seen brave courageous survivors stand up, recount their deepest traumas and ask this country to do one simple thing, which is to get them accountability. Yet, on many occasions they have been met with a State redress scheme that is cold, bureaucratic, adversarial and forces them to repeatedly prove they are not lying.  If the State's failures are cause for deep concern, the utter moral bankruptcy of certain religious orders is worse. We need to call this out for what it is. This is a masterclass in corporate evasion by institutions that claim they are Christian, but whose actions, in reality, are anything but.  Culpable religious orders are actively dodging their responsibilities. They are using grubby, dirty, cynical legal tactics to place their vast wealth and considerable assets completely out of reach. They move properties and millions of euro into lay-run trusts, drawing a legal curtain between their riches and money, and the victims they broke, bruised and failed - vulnerable people who were, in many cases, in their care. The recent scoping inquiry noted \"mixed engagement\" from the orders on redress. In my view, \"mixed\" is a laughable term to use. It is almost a euphemism for literally whacking the door shut on survivors.  We cannot continue the same failed approach of asking religious orders to, effectively, appeal to their better nature. That approach has failed us for nearly 30 years. It is time for the State to force their hand. I want to read an excerpt from an email I received from a constituent of mine who is a survivor of Sean Ross Abbey, which outlines eloquently the core of the issue:  If the State truly understood the lifelong damage caused to women and children by mother and baby homes, it would never have designed the redress scheme as it did. Women entered these institutions at one of the most vulnerable times in their lives, and many arrived frightened, alone and ashamed, often having already been rejected by their families and communities. Instead of compassion, proper maternity care and support, women in Sean Ross Abbey experienced fear, humiliation and inadequate care. Women have spoken about being left in pain during childbirth and being told to offer up their suffering for their sins. Many mothers left these institutions without their babies. Many children grew up not knowing who they were, where they came from or why they had been separated from their mothers.  This trauma did not end when the doors of these institutions closed because women and children continue to live with the physical and emotional consequences today, and many still require counselling and support decades later. No amount of money can compensate mothers and children for the trauma, abuse and lifelong consequences of what happened in mother and baby homes. However, the State has effectively decided what that suffering is worth. The redress scheme tells its own story, with the arbitrary cut-offs and medical card eligibility issues once again reducing lifelong trauma and its consequences to a simple calculation of days. Recently, two survivors successfully challenged their exclusion from the redress scheme through the courts. The Government's response was not to accept these decisions; it was to appeal. Only weeks after the Minister stood in the D\u00e1il and apologised to survivors, the State is once again forcing survivors through the courts. Survivors are looking for justice, for accountability and for religious orders to pay what they owe.  It is shocking that in 2026, mothers out there who are survivors of these institutions have no clue - and may never have a clue - where their dead children are buried. When survivors consistently seek answers about what happened, information remains unavailable and important questions remained unanswered. Apologies have been made, reports have been published and legislation has been introduced, but for many people time is running out. I note with deep disappointment the Minister of State's amendment providing for a six-month time delay, because some of these survivors may not have six months. The Bill my colleague has introduced provides the legal teeth to break through these trusts and recover the damage that is rightfully owed to survivors. No survivor should have to resort to dragging themselves through an adversarial court system to fight for their dignity. If an institution facilitated, enabled and covered up the horrific sexual abuse of children, that institution must pay what is owed. We have given the Minister of State a mechanism to act; please use it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I thank Deputy Bacik and the Labour Party for this Bill. I welcome the visitors to the Public Gallery. I am sure it is not easy for them to listen to the back and forth on something that should be an easy and straightforward thing to do. The Social Democrats welcome this Bill. We are disappointed in the Government for the six-month delay. As has been said, perhaps some people do not have six months, and have waited a very long time for redress.  As I have listened to this debate, it has struck me how many debates are had in this Chamber on this topic. I am sure previous speakers have said this already, but when people contact me to tell me what happened to them as a child, it is absolutely horrific to read the words, to hear people on the phone and to try to understand what a child experienced at the hands of an adult in this country. I am also absolutely certain this is not historic. I know we are talking about historic at present, but this is going on now.  The reality is that they were alone as children. They were scared and vulnerable, but we do not seem to be able to understand that. When that person receives redress, that does not mean it wipes away the pain, the hurt and everything that happened to them as a child. Redress does not wipe that away. It is not an erasure, but a recognition that the wrongs that happened to that child were not and are not acceptable. It does not take away the pain, but it is a recognition.  Going back for a moment, \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" had a very interesting documentary, which I am sure people have seen, that explained very clearly how the religious orders use these unincorporated bodies to hide their assets. To be very clear, these religious orders are still running schools. They are called something different; they are not called the Christian brothers but something else. They are still running schools, and have all these unincorporated bodies and resources.  At the time of several redress schemes, the religious orders said they did not have the money to contribute as much to them. They did not have the money, yet over a 35-year period they sold 800 properties. They got rid of them; they had the money, so they were able to generate it. We were talking about dereliction earlier this week. The Department of education owns a huge amount of vacant properties that would have come originally through religious orders, so there are plenty of resources. However, these are organisations that successfully hid paedophiles in every nook and cranny of every institution and educational building. They were able to hide them so well, and now they are hiding in every nook and cranny any piece of property, cash or resources they have so that they do not have to feed back into the redress system. That is their responsibility. Yes, it is the responsibility of the State, but it is the responsibility of the people who perpetrated these horrific crimes on children to pay for that.  The \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" documentary reported that there were members of the Christian brothers organisation who were not only paedophiles, but were also responsible for setting up the structures and making sure the resources were not able to be used. That is something that came as a shock to many people. This is a State failure, but we cannot pass the buck to others. We need to ensure mechanisms of the State are able to reach into those orders and get behind the red tape.  It is fixable. I suppose I am a little frustrated because if you think if there is a problem, you fix it. There is a solution here; Deputy Bacik is giving a very clear and easy solution. We are able to tackle these unincorporated bodies. I had somebody contact me by email - I am not going to give his name because I do not have permission - who told me he has to sue 120 Christian brothers. That is in the High Court. It is not acceptable to hide behind this. For people who maybe do not understand, trauma has a way of incorporating every part of your body - sorry for the pun there. It takes over your whole body and mind. To be able to deal with sexual abuse trauma and then have to navigate a system that is set against you is absolutely cruel and is totally avoidable.  Going back to the survivors for a minute, it is utterly heartbreaking. I keep saying \"heartbreaking\". I am a mother. I have children. I keep thinking of how the survivors were failed, but we are continuing to fail them. We keep coming back in here, talking about it, proposing things and then delaying it. I do not understand why we are delaying it. Maybe that is how survivors feel. They do not understand why so many barriers and blockages have to be put in their way, when the State is saying it sees them, hears them and will do redress, but it will only do redress if they lived in the mother and baby homes for more than six months. I do not understand what the difference is between living there for five minutes or six months. It is a trauma that continues for the rest of their lives. How do you measure those things?  When we stood in this Chamber, when Helen McEntee was Minister for Education, and discussed what would happen with regard to sexual abuse in schools in Ireland, so many people said that had to be a trauma-focused, survivor-focused way of approaching it. It needs to allow people to speak, not to speak, to find a space and to not be retraumatising, yet here we are again, having this conversation, and there will be a delay. The Government has said several times, on so many Bills over the last year, that the Opposition never comes up with any solutions and only criticises it. The Labour Party is giving an excellent solution here, yet the Government's new thing, and I say new as if I have been here for years when I have not, seems to be to put a delay on things. I ask the Government to please not do that. It is unfair to the victims, the survivors and those people who suffered in our schools. When education and health is outsourced to organisations, that does not mean the responsibility for it can be outsourced.  The State has had to pay a significant amount of money in redress, and rightly so. The religious orders, the other organisations and other unincorporated bodies, of which there are so many that I will not be able to name them all, need to be able to pay back and should be paying back, but they are not, because they are smart and they are moving their money around. Maybe this is possible because maybe a really rich organisation is able to move its money around, and I am just naive. What I am not naive about is the fact that people who have been educated in this country and have been in institutions deserve better, and we have to try better. The Government needs to catch up with the rest of us with regard to empathy and a trauma-informed way of looking at things, because this is not it, and putting that delay on this Bill is a disgrace. I would like the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, to take that back to Government and ask Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael and all the other people who make up the Government to please discuss it. We are now looking at a situation where there is a solution which will help people. It will never ever wipe away the pain that those children, now adults, have endured, but it may do something to help, and it will perhaps be less traumatising and less retraumatising. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas le gach duine a labhair ar an \u00e1bhar t\u00e1bhachtach seo. I commend Deputy Bacik on bringing this Bill before the House. I acknowledge those survivors and welcome them to the Chamber. They worked to raise awareness of this issue, often at considerable personal cost, long before it reached the floor of D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann. This issue was brought to light because of the litigation strategy adopted by the leadership of the Congregation of Christian Brothers, as mentioned by other Deputies who have spoken before me. While the current leadership may not be directly responsible for the acts or the abuse themselves, they are undoubtedly accountable for how they choose to respond to that legacy. Their choices have had a direct and profound adverse impact on victims and survivors, not only in the past but continuing right up to this present day. I welcome again the survivors this afternoon. This Chamber cannot even begin to comprehend how distressing it is for them to have to deal with this order's leadership.  In late 2022, this matter was referred to the Law Reform Commission. I would appreciate if the Minister of State could update the House on whether there has been any commission progress to address the legal loophole whereby unincorporated bodies are not obliged to nominate a person to accept service of legal proceedings on behalf of their organisation. Like Deputy O'Rourke, I am not from a legal background. For context, in 2017, the leadership of the Christian Brothers order chose to introduce a litigation strategy that has had the effect of obstructing survivors' access to our civil courts. This is secondary abuse. Survivors speak of years trapped in procedural disputes, unable to progress their cases. They describe being suspended in a legal limbo that delays healing, impedes meaningful engagement with therapy and causes ongoing retraumatisation.  Survivors describe the litigation strategy as a continuing exercise of power and control over their lives. For many, it echoes the powerlessness that they experienced as children when they were abused by members of that same order. Survivors are often isolated and initially were not aware that their treatment was part of a broad litigation strategy. They campaigned tirelessly to raise public awareness and provided evidence, examined in the mentioned and award-winning 2023 \"RT\u00c9 Investigates\" documentary. That programme revealed the litigation strategy, the extent of which we all know now. It brought national attention to the efforts being made by the Christian Brothers order to prevent survivors from pursuing their claims through civil courts.  In seeking symbolic justice, survivors also commenced a campaign to rescind the freedom of Drogheda, previously awarded to an individual who, in 2017, presided over the introduction by his order of this litigation strategy. This message was difficult to articulate as the freedom recipient was not directly responsible for those acts of primary harm, and some public representatives spread misinformation and many refused to listen and to allow survivors to express their views. Numerous individuals and organisations, including One In Four, publicly supported the campaign and articulated the legitimate concerns underpinning it.  In order to engage with public representatives, survivors of childhood abuse, rape, and torture, whom this Bill is designed to support, experienced little empathy or compassion, blanket refusals to engage, abusive text messages directed at supporters, and complicity by some public representatives as lawful motions were removed or interfered with by non-elected actors. There were extremely hurtful personalised attacks and misinformed victim-blaming in local as well as social media, and conflicts of interest resulting in victims of rape being refused the service they were entitled to by a rape crisis centre, for which Cuan, Ireland's statutory agency for tackling sexual violence, was notified.  Arguments being made in media that it was the choice of survivors to be subjected to the religious orders' abusive litigation strategies were akin to 1970s and 1980s Ireland. Public representatives revealed and exercised deference to powerful religious leaders whose choices continue to harm victims. Most hurtful of all was that many public representatives ignored or refused to hear the harm which this choice of litigation strategy was causing. Seventeen victims who travelled to Drogheda to meet public representatives, paid for a meeting room, gave nine days' notice and paid for uneaten sandwiches at that meeting were largely ignored by those invited. Most of them did not even have the courtesy to RSVP and the request was very basic. The survivors wanted to be listened to and treated with dignity. I regret to say that most of these experiences involved elected representatives of the Labour Party at local, national and European level.  However, it would be wrong to suggest this problem was confined to one political party. This reflected a broader systematic and political failure rather than a series of isolated incidents. I understand that these concerns were brought to the attention of Deputy Bacik in 2023 and 2024, including requests that concerns regarding the conduct of certain representatives were to be examined, but no responses were forthcoming. These events occurred in 2023 and are relevant to the forthcoming Commission of Investigation into the Handling of Historical Child Sexual Abuse in Schools. If survivors feel unable to secure a hearing from elected representatives today, it is understandable some may be fearful participating in the State process tomorrow. I therefore ask Deputy Bacik to meet these survivors and listen to their experiences. The survivors request that One in Four support them in this meeting.  This legislation can mark a new chapter. I commend Deputy Bacik again. Survivors are grateful to her for bringing forward this Bill. They acknowledge her past work with survivors and believe that she will be willing to bring transparency, learning and accountability.  Survivors have asked me to put on the D\u00e1il record their eternal appreciation for the broadcast journalism of Michael Reade. Ar dheis D\u00e9 go raibh a anam d\u00edlis. Without Michael's extraordinary work ethic and his compassion, they believe that we will not be debating this Bill today. I look forward to engaging with this Bill on Committee Stage and subsequent Stages. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan)  I apologise, as I had to step out for a number of minutes to meet a group that I had a long-standing arrangement with. I thank Deputy Bacik again for putting forward this legislation. As I indicated earlier on, it is important legislation that aligns with Government policy but there are areas in respect of it that I need to give consideration to. I also want to speak in general about how we get justice. It is important from the point of view of survivors that we emphasise and recognise that justice in Ireland can only be delivered through the courts. The courts are there to deliver justice. In the first instance, when people are survivors of sexual abuse or rape, the first port of call, hopefully, is a criminal court where the perpetrator of the heinous crime can be held to account. That is the primary way that liability and criminal responsibility is apportioned and individuals can be held liable before criminal courts for their heinous crimes and attacks upon survivors. In order for that to occur, however, it involves a significant amount of effort on the part of the person who makes the complaint and proceeds and pursues the claim through the courts. We all saw it recently in terms of what happened in another jurisdiction north of the Border recently when you look at the process that had to be gone through in order for the complainants in that trial to achieve justice before the criminal courts.  The criminal courts are where justice is provided in terms of the apportionment of criminal liability. However, justice can be delivered and administered through the civil courts. That is the mechanism that this legislation seeks to engage with. Even though an individual may be criminally responsible for the heinous act of sexual assault or rape, there may also be others associated with that individual who have a broader responsibility and a fiduciary duty that results in them have a liability for the actions of that person. That is why, in so many instances, in situations that arise where people are abused and assaulted by persons who are part of an institution, that institution can be held liable if it can be established that the institution did not take the necessary steps to protect individuals who are vulnerable, such as schoolchildren, who are within the responsibility of the person who carried out the criminal act. That is why, in many instances, it is necessary and appropriate for people to institute proceedings in the civil courts against unincorporated bodies that have a responsibility and liability for the actions of an individual.  I know Deputy Bacik is not saying this, but there are many times when people do things on their own and the entity has no responsibility for it. If a member of a political party does something on their own without anyone within the political party being aware of it, the political party should not have responsibility for it. Where there are circumstances which are apparent that the unincorporated body is aware of the actions of the individual or has reports made to them about the dangerous actions of the individual and they do nothing about it, or, even worse, they move the person elsewhere in the knowledge that these serious allegations have been made, in that context, there is a liability before the civil courts that will fall upon the unincorporated body. In those instances, victims who come before the civil courts who want to institute proceedings should be able to institute those proceedings in a readily accessible manner.  The purpose of this legislation is to ensure that in circumstances where the unincorporated entity will not give a representative's name or will not nominate an individual to be a representative defendant, the court should step in by directing an individual who will be the nominated representative and defendant. The reason that is a form of justice is that justice does provide that damages are a remedy that are to be payable by a wrongdoer in respect of the offences that were committed by that wrongdoer or for which that entity is responsible for. I will conclude by recognising the important role that survivors play in terms of legislation. I have no doubt that this legislation was inspired by the narrative of survivors. I will be back here considering these matter in the Houses in due course. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  In the first instance, I thank my own Labour colleagues, Deputies Ahern and Sheehan, and the representatives and speakers from other parties who supported this important Bill. I thank the Minister for his engagement on the Bill too. Listening carefully to what he said, he spoke in encouraging terms about the principle behind the Bill. He spoke about the need for people to be able to access the courts and secure redress in a readily accessible manner. He spoke earlier with great clarity about the current difficulties that arise for anyone who seeks to pursue an unincorporated association through the courts. Indeed, Deputy Cummins gave a pertinent example of somebody seeking to pursue the Christian Brothers. Deputy Ahern referred to the Christian Brothers too and having to name 120 individual members. That is the difficulty. The Christian Brothers, through the establishment of the lay-run trust, the Edmund Rice Schools Trust, divested a great deal of assets into that lay-run trust. That is precisely the mechanism that we are seeking to address in this Bill. I thank all of those survivors with whom I have spoken and who have been so courageous in coming forward over the years to disclose about the impact of abuse upon them. I thank the Minister for acknowledging the impact survivors can have on shaping policy. We are seeing that with the debate today on this Bill. It is important to acknowledge.  Deputy O'Rourke commented that the Minister used the word \"complex\" quite a number of times. The Minister used it again in his response. I am disappointed that this is used as the device to justify the six-month delay. I was disappointed also to hear the Minister's reference to the likely publication date of that long-awaited Law Reform Commission report into unincorporated associations. I think the Minister said it is not due until early 2028. That will be six years after the consultation paper was published. My concern is that will then become another - the Minister was referencing it today - pre-emptive delaying device and that, in fact, the Minister will not be able to support any Bill until after that date. He did not indicate that the interdepartmental group report might be brought forward. The Taoiseach indicated on Tuesday in his response to me that this publication date would not be as late as May 2027 and that it might be earlier. I would welcome some clarity on that. I can speak to the Minister afterward about that.  I want to come back to that point of complexity. Yes, there are complex matters here, but, at its core, this is straightforward. We are talking about a mechanism or legal tactic being used by religious orders. I have referred to it previously as a sort of \"developer's wife\" tactic, where the religious order bears the liability, as typically a male developer would.  It transfers its assets into the lay-run trust as the developer would have transferred assets to their spouse - in a gendered way, typically to the wife - and the owner of the assets is therefore beyond the reach of legal accountability, given that the spouse does not have the liability whereas the person liable no longer possesses the assets. That is the simplest way to describe what this mechanism is. Our Bill is a way of getting around that and lifting the veil, lifting the obstruction and making it easier to sue because, as the Minister said himself, and I made a note of his word, it is implausible currently that you have to sue every member of a religious order in order to pursue religious orders as unincorporated associations. I should say I have some experience: I was taken to the courts as a student union officer, indeed threatened with prison, many years ago for providing women with information on abortion but we were pursued as individuals through the courts because we were officers of an unincorporated association and the union could not be sued as a students' union at the time. Therefore, I am well aware of the mechanisms behind this. Our Bill is very carefully drafted to make sure that it only applies in narrow circumstances. Under section 2, which sets out the circumstances where the legal curtain can be lifted, the wrongdoer is a member of the unincorporated association and the plaintiff was sexually abused as a child. Section 5 sets out how the court appoints the proper defendant. I thought the Minister quoted approvingly the device we put in here. We have set out very careful criteria for when an associated trust can be pursued. Therefore, the Bill is carefully drafted and narrowly focused.  The Minister put particular focus on section 8 and the lifting of the proviso around the Statute of Limitations and indicated that that was particularly complex. I acknowledge that, and I acknowledge that we are looking to provide for a sort of retrospective effect. That, of course, has consequences, but I am very happy along with Labour colleagues and, I think, colleagues across the Opposition to work with the Minister and the Attorney General\u2019s office to address any issues in this regard on Committee Stage.  The Minister proposes to defer this until Christmas Day, which Deputy Ahern described as the anti-Santa approach, although it is more like a Scrooge approach really. My concern is that that will delay our ability to confer with the Attorney General or move to Committee Stage. No doubt we will then be told to wait until May 2027 for the IDG report and then to wait until early 2028 for the Law Reform Commission report. That is just delaying justice and delaying redress for survivors. That is really important because it will mean that survivors will continue to face obstacles and obstructions in looking to pursue religious orders through the courts, because they will have to go through this crazy process where you have to name all the individuals, the orders may or may not provide the nominated name and so on. Survivors should not have to go to court.  The other purpose of the Bill is to provide a leverage for the State in negotiating with the religious orders to get the fair share of redress paid. Currently, State bodies, and the Department of education in particular, are at a huge disadvantage in seeking orders to come forward and pay their share, as Sheila Nunan discovered. Deputy Sheehan referred to the difficulties and complexity in trying to get the religious orders to come forward. I think the language used was \u201ca mixed response\u201d from religious orders when they were asked to make voluntary contributions to the State. It was mixed because the State has no sanction. The State cannot say to religious orders that if they do not pay up voluntarily, then it will compel them, as there is currently no power of compulsion.  At its core, this Bill is simple. It is about trying to unblock the current obstructions that lie in the way of pursuing religious orders. It is about lifting an obstruction to justice for survivors. So many survivors have come forward and asked that this Bill be progressed and that we see a speedier and more urgent response from the Government. Just yesterday, I heard from a mother whose son, who is non-verbal, was physically and sexually abused while in the care of a particular religious order. She asked what prospect there was for non-verbal children. That is a specific question and one of many that have been put to me. I submitted a parliamentary question on that particular issue. There are many heartbreaking stories of the distress, trauma, deep hurt and damage, and life-long consequences of abuse upon many survivors yet there is a failure to be able to secure accountability from the religious orders that were responsible in many cases.  Others have referred rightly to the bigger picture here, that being, the immense power that the church and religious orders wielded for many decades through the State, and the sort of shadow welfare state that the Catholic church operated in running industrial schools, mother and baby homes, Magdalen institutions and many other institutions in which vulnerable persons, women and children primarily, were incarcerated for many shameful decades. The church and the religious orders continue to wield enormous power in our education system through the patronage model. Ninety percent of our primary schools are still under the patronage of the Catholic church and the religious orders, so that power remains. This Bill is one small attempt to get behind the power and the wealth, let us name it, of these religious institutions. The report that others and I referenced earlier noted \u20ac1.3 billion of assets held in cash and property by eight religious orders. That is an enormous sum of money. It should be accessible to survivors of abuse and to State bodies that are seeking to do right now by survivors whom they failed for so long.  This Bill is aligned with stated Government policy and priorities in seeking to pursue and make accountable religious orders that have escaped accountability for far too long. The scale of this is astounding.  I welcomed earlier the movements made on the commission of investigation into abuse in schools but look at the scoping inquiry of 2024. What does it tell us? There were 2,400 allegations of abuse in 308 schools, with more than a quarter originating in facilities for children with special needs. It is absolutely shocking. There were 884 alleged abusers in 42 religious orders. We only know what is the tip of the iceberg. We have relied so much on the bravery of individual survivors to come forward but clearly there is an enormous mountain of undisclosed trauma that is still there among many people who were abused. Listen to the accounts from Dunderrow and those women who are still reliving the trauma of being abused in a systematic, calculated fashion by Leo Hickey. That is the sort of trauma that we are now beginning to uncover. As the oppressive Catholic church doctrine is lifting from the laws of the State, and the Minister reminded us about that with the disregard law this week, which we welcome, we know now how much we have to do to do right by survivors. This Bill represents just one way that we can do right by survivors. I urge the Minister to drop the six-month delay. We have to oppose it. We want to see this Bill pass into law as swiftly as possible to do right by survivors. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until next week's division time. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 6.38 p.m. go dt\u00ed 2 p.m., D\u00e9 M\u00e1irt, an 30 Meitheamh 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 6.38 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 30 June 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Against Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill 2025: Second Stage [Private Members]"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-06-25"},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-06-30T02:11:49+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-06-24","counts":{"contributorCount":170,"divisionCount":6,"debateSectionCount":24,"questionCount":37,"billCount":4},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aindrias Moynihan)  I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case:  Deputy Sorca Clarke - To discuss access to neurology services in the Midlands Regional Hospital, Mullingar.  Deputy Shane Moynihan - To discuss delays in reimbursement under the cross-border healthcare directive.  Deputy Aindrias Moynihan - To discuss the need to advance bus services for people living west of Cork city.  Deputy Joe Neville - To discuss the national semiconductor plan.  Deputy Danny Healy-Rae - To discuss funding for rehabilitation repair works for bridges in Kerry.  Deputy Ruth Coppinger - To discuss the announcement by a company of the suspension of its drone delivery service.  Deputy Pat Buckley - To discuss the lack of school transport for children with intellectual disabilities at a school in Cork.  Deputy Tom Brabazon - To discuss the loss of staff at a school in Priorswood in the context of its new DEIS plus status.  Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss the development of Bunclody Community College, County Wexford.  Deputy Albert Dolan - To discuss the pricing of train tickets between Athenry and Galway.  Deputy David Cullinane - To discuss the severe childcare services deficit in County Waterford.  Deputy Gary Gannon - To discuss data collection and sentencing guidelines relating to unprovoked \"one punch\" fatal assaults.  Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan - To discuss the reimbursement of a drug and implementation of the drug reimbursement system.  Deputy Pa Daly - To discuss delivery of a new building for a school in County Kerry.  Deputy Colm Burke - To discuss actions to reduce the risk to children who require MRI scans under anaesthetic.  Deputy Rory Hearne - To discuss community safety and policing issues in Ballymun and Finglas in the context of the upcoming Presidency of the Council of the EU.  Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa - To discuss the planned industrial action at Oberstown.  Deputies George Lawlor, Sin\u00e9ad Gibney and Richard Boyd Barrett - To discuss mass redundancies at a company and other job loses associated with AI.  Deputies Darren O'Rourke and Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire - To discuss the need for redress for survivors of historical abuse at a school.  Deputy Michael Cahill - To discuss and address the concerns of advanced nurse practitioners in the pay review process.  Deputy Marie Sherlock - To discuss the status of the reception class programme.  The matters raised by Deputies Sorca Clarke, Aindrias Moynihan, Ruth Coppinger, George Lawlor, Sin\u00e9ad Gibney, Richard Boyd Barrett and Marie Sherlock have been selected for discussion "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Hospital Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  Go raibh m\u00edle maith agat. I welcome the opportunity to raise the issue of the lack of a dedicated neurological service at the Regional Hospital Mullingar. It is not that we have an under-resourced service or a service that needs expansion; we simply do not have any dedicated neurology service at all. Instead, there is a limited outreach arrangement with another hospital in another county. For perspective, it will take one of my constituents from Moyne 90 minutes, each way, to travel to Tullamore. It is 105 km.  The national model of care for neurology services, published in 2016, clearly states that all model 3 hospitals should have a dedicated neurology service. A decade later, the people of Longford-Westmeath are still waiting for their service. The consultant neurologist in Tullamore Hospital is not on a full-time basis. The service delivers three 90-minute telephone clinics per week and one in-person clinic every second Thursday. For a catchment population of over 200,000 people across Longford, Westmeath, Offaly and surrounding counties, are we really expected to believe that this constitutes an acceptable neurology service? Does the Minister of State believe that this is safe? Does he believe it is sustainable? Does he believe it is a clinically appropriate level of care given the demand?  Neurological conditions are now the leading cause of disabilities worldwide. In Ireland, one in six people is now living with a neurological condition. People are living with Parkinson\u2019s disease, multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, acquired brain injury, motor neurone disease and numerous other conditions that require specialist assessment, diagnosis, treatment and long-term management. The consequences of failing to provide local services are felt every day by my constituents and their families in Longford-Westmeath. People are being forced to travel to Dublin for appointments that should be available closer to home. They are being forced to travel to Tullamore for appointments that should be available closer to home. We know there are thousands of outpatient appointments in St. James's Hospital every year for people in my area, based solely on the addresses they provide to that hospital.  For many patients, particularly those with progressive neurological conditions, these journeys are not a minor inconvenience. They need time off work, suffer a loss of income, incur transport and parking costs, must arrange carers and family support and endure lengthy travel times, while dealing with what can be debilitating symptoms. There have been reports and press releases about healthcare being delivered closer to home. Neurological patients have every right to ask where that care is for them in Longford-Westmeath.  The Neurological Alliance of Ireland, NAI, has highlighted significant regional inequalities in access to neurological care. A recent report found that people living in regional and rural areas face longer waits, greater travel burdens and poorer access to specialist services than those living in major urban centres. One woman I met, a patient, summed up the problem perfectly when she said that Ireland is policy rich but implementation poor. That phrase stuck with me because, in this instance, we have policies, reports and models of care but what we do not have is delivery. The national model of care clearly states that every model 3 hospital should have a dedicated neurology service. The programme for Government commits to improving neurological care. Yet in the midlands, people are being left behind.  Added to that concern is the fact that Ireland still does not have a national brain health strategy. This is a time when neurological conditions are increasing, our population is ageing and demand is rising. The absence of that coherent national strategy is becoming increasingly difficult for the Government to justify. It is not simply about staffing numbers and waiting lists. This should and must be about equity. A person's access to neurological care should not depend on their address and their ability to travel to Dublin. People across Longford and Westmeath deserve the same access to specialist neurological services as people living elsewhere in the State.  I ask the Minister of State to first acknowledge the reality that there is no dedicated neurological service in the Regional Hospital Mullingar and to commit to delivering one because ten years after the report, my constituents deserve it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment (Deputy Alan Dillon)  I thank Deputy Clarke for the opportunity to address the House today on an issue that I know is of real importance to her constituents and to the midlands.  I am taking this Topical Issue debate on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill. The HSE recognises the vital importance of timely access to neurological services for patients across the midlands and acknowledges the significant impact that delays in accessing specialist care can have on patients and their families. The HSE has advised that, currently, neurological services for patients in the midlands are provided through a combination of local services at Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar and specialist regional neurological services. While there is currently no onsite specialist neurological services at Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar, it is important to be clear that access to specialist neurological options for patients in the midlands is available through the established referral pathway to specialist services at the Mater Misericordiae University Hospital.  The HSE continues to monitor demand for neurological services in Mullingar and across the midlands and is working with clinical teams to maximise available capacity, improve patient pathways and ensure that patients are prioritised according to clinical need. Patients requiring urgent assessment continue to be seen as a priority through available referral pathways while every effort is being made to reduce waiting times for routine appointments. Indeed, the challenges facing neurological services are not unique to the midlands. The national clinical programme for neurology has acknowledged that demand for neurological services has grown significantly in recent years. To address this, the Minister for Health allocated significant investment in 2025 to expand regional neurological services. This included \u20ac4 million in funding for the recruitment of five additional consultant neurologists and six clinical nurse specialists specifically to support services in model 3 hospitals, including Mullingar.  A further 16 neurological nurse specialist posts and three health and social care professional posts were funded across a range of specialist neurological services. The HSE anticipates that these positions will be filled during 2026, helping to address some of the service gaps identified and improve access to care for patients. This service development is supporting progress on the implementation of the HSE's model of care for neurology.  The focus of the neurology initiative is aimed at improving access to appropriate neurological services; improving safety and quality in the delivery of patient-centred neurological care; and improving value for both patient and health services across neurological services. More broadly, the national clinical programme for neurology is actively working on a hub and spoke model to guide equitable neurology services across the country. This aligns with the health regions and aims to tackle the gaps in neurology services nationally. The model will include one model 4 hospital hub per health region, catering for the most complex neurological care. These sites will support model 3 spoke sites, including Mullingar, which will provide services for people with less complex needs.  Many hospitals already have well-developed neurological services, but funding received in 2025 is enabling the delivery of phase 1 of the hub and spoke model. It is expected that this proposed hub and spoke model will enable a reduction in waiting lists and timely access to diagnosis and treatment and thus improve quality of life and prognosis for people with neurological symptoms. This will cater for people with all neurological conditions and will deliver on the Sl\u00e1intecare principle of delivering care closer to the patient's home. Improving access to specialist care remains a priority for this Government and the HSE is continuing to work with the national clinical programme for neurology to strengthen neurological services. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  I want to return to the evidence, because the facts contained in the Neurological Alliance report are stark. Mullingar hospital is a model 3 hospital. The national model of care says that it should have a dedicated service. The first fact is that one in six people in Ireland are living with a neurological condition and it is now the leading cause of disability worldwide. Yet, despite the growing demand, Mullingar hospital still does not have a dedicated service. The second fact is that the Neurological Alliance report specifically highlights concerns that Mullingar remains dependent on an outreach service and does not have a dedicated service as outlined in that model of care. The third fact is that demand has outstripped capacity. The Neurological Alliance briefing note says that more than 160 people are currently on a waiting list for neurology services in Mullingar alone. The fourth fact, which we know from various other areas outside health, is that regional inequality is a national problem. People living in regions and rural areas face greater travel burdens, longer waits, and poorer access to specialist expertise than those living in centres. That is a system where access to care is being determined by geography rather than need.  The Neurological Alliance found that consultant neurology staffing remains below recommended levels nationally. Specialist nursing numbers remain significantly below recommended levels. Major gaps exist in multi-disciplinary supports and neurorehabilitation services. These are not my figures or Opposition speaking points. These are the findings of a report from a national umbrella body representing almost 40 neurological organisations and more than 860,000 people living with neurological conditions. The evidence exists, the need is highlighted and the recommendations are outlined. When will the people of Longford-Westmeath get a dedicated neurology service in Mullingar Regional Hospital, which they were promised a decade ago? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Dillon  Again, I thank Deputy Clarke for raising this important issue. I fully acknowledge that too many patients are still waiting far too long for appointments and treatment. I recognise the real strain that is placing on individuals and families. As outlined, neurological services in the midlands are delivered through a combination of local supports in Mullingar and specialist regional services. Urgent patients continue to be prioritised and every effort is being made to reduce waiting lists for routine appointments. It is important to recognise that significant investment has been made to expand neurological services, which will help to address the service gaps and improve access to care for patients right across the regions.  As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the implementation of the model of care for neurological services, including the hub and spoke system, is a key part of this, because this will focus on reducing waiting lists, ensure early diagnostics and also deliver timely treatment for patients. It will also improve the quality of life and outcomes for those living with neurological conditions. Regarding Mullingar itself, strengthening services, reducing delays and delivering care close to home is a key priority that the Government wants to achieve. The Minister remains fully committed to improving neurological services right across the country, including for patients in Mullingar and across the midlands, with regard to reducing waiting times, expanding capacity and ensuring patients can access neurological care closer to home when they need to. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Hospital Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Bus Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aindrias Moynihan  I need to raise with the Minister of State the need to improve bus services on the western side of County Cork, from Cork city, up the Lee valley towards Ballyvourney, the upper Blackwater valley over as far as Millstreet and along the Bandon Valley too. Students need to be able to get to college on time. People need to be able to get to work on time and to use public transport to do that, and to be able to get back home again in a timely way as well. These are growing communities west of Cork city. Large numbers of houses are being built, or are already built, with construction happening in places like Millstreet, Ballyvourney, Macroom, Coachford, Cloghduff, and Ovens. They need that infrastructure to be able to get to and from work and into Cork city.  I acknowledge that progress has been made on public transport locally with the installation and building of bus shelters, and the new improvement of the No. 40 route, with the stop on the western side of Macroom, as well as the recently approved planning permission for Macroom bus station. Macroom bus station, after the bypass has been built, offers a real opportunity to act as a hub, so there will be buses coming in from the likes of Killarney, Bantry, Millstreet, Bandon and Cork, and an opportunity for people to switch services there.  One service which I want to draw particular attention to is the 256. This is coming from Bantry. Currently, two local transport initiatives operate back to back, Bantry to Ballingeary and Inchigeelagh to Macroom. The NTA has been examining this option, which is advanced, fully planned and ready to go.  It is joining the dots, putting together the two services to have one continuous service operating from Bantry through to Macroom. However, they are held up waiting for PSO funding. The new service is not a far-off concept. It is ready to go. The NTA needs to get the PSO funding up and running.  The 257 is planned to run from Millstreet to Macroom to Bandon. Half of that is done, so the next stage, from Macroom to Bandon, needs to advance. There are also plans fairly well advanced with BusConnects to serve Ovens. Things need to advance for Crossbarry and Donoughmore. Many of the projects are already under way or fairly advanced in planning, but they are stuck waiting for PSO funding. The NTA is very clear on that. Really what we need to do is bring them along to that next stage.  If the Minister looks, for example, at that 257 that I gave as an example, the council is already planning bus stops and bus shelters along part of that, including, for example, in Crookstown. The actual bus part needs to be advanced. The NTA is adamant that it has done its planning and is now waiting for PSO funding. Cork North-West needs delivery, certainty and fairness, not further delays. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney)  I thank Deputy Moynihan for giving me the opportunity to address the issue of bus services for people living west of Cork city. I want to clarify from the outset that the Minister for Transport has responsibility for policy and overall funding in relation to public transport but that neither the Minister nor his officials are involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services. Statutory responsibility for securing the provision of public passenger transport services nationally rests with the NTA. The NTA works with the public transport operators who deliver the services and have responsibility for day-to-day operational matters.  That said, I reassure the Deputy that the Government is strongly committed to providing all citizens with reliable and realistic sustainable mobility options, and public transport plays a key role in the delivery of this goal. To support this objective, in budget 2026 the Department of Transport secured \u20ac940 million in funding for PSO and TFI Local Link services, an increase from \u20ac650 million in 2025. This will go towards funding and subsidising existing public transport services across Ireland by maintaining targeted fares, including initiatives such as the recently introduced free travel for all children up to the age of nine and the young adult card for those aged from 19 to 25 as part of the NTA\u2019s national fares strategy. The Department continues to engage with the NTA to ensure existing levels of service, resilience and driver shortages are considered, and to ensure that planning and strategic decisions are informed by both operational and resource considerations.  A sum of \u20ac31 million has been secured for continued investment in our rural transport service in 2026, a 38% increase on last year\u2019s funding. This funding ensures the continued delivery of vital transport services across rural Ireland, building on the significant increase in recent years. In County Cork in particular, funding increased by 47% between 2024 and 2025, boosting passenger numbers by 95%.  A great example of this continued investment can be seen on route 519, introduced in July 2025. This new route provides passengers travelling from Charleville to Cork with a morning service at 7.05 a.m. and a service from Cork to Charleville at 5.45 p.m., Monday to Friday. This new route is part of the Connecting Ireland rural mobility plan, a major public transport initiative. Since 2022, 185 new and enhanced services have commenced. Over 240 towns and villages are now linked into the public transport network. Thirty-six of these new and enhanced services were delivered in 2025. These services, introduced under Connecting Ireland, now provide new transport connections to 41 higher education facilities and 61 healthcare facilities, as well as offering 71 connections to rail services, allowing passengers to continue to connect to the wider TFI network.  Approximately 600,000 people now have access to these new services. Increased services have led to exponential growth in passenger numbers, with more than 8 million passenger journeys recorded across services in 2025. This represents an increase of 70% when compared with patronage in 2023.  The expansion of rural bus services has brought life back into villages and towns. Under the Connecting Ireland initiative, the NTA plans to extend the 320 service to Charleville rail station and extend the frequency of services connecting Charleville town centre to the station, as well as Limerick city, Patrickswell and Croom, subject to the availability of funding and operational readiness. I assure the Deputy that transport connectivity is very important for people who live and work in rural Ireland, including in west Cork. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aindrias Moynihan  I thank the Minister of State for outlining the various works under way. I readily acknowledge that there is headway being made in different places. In this regard I have referred to bus shelters, including for the No. 40 route. Time and again, I have raised here the need to advance the 233 bus service. It is a vital service that goes up and down the Lee valley, serving the area from Macroom to Cork. However, it does not serve those settlements alone as it also services a huge number of people in growing communities in between, from Kilmurry to Crookstown. Cloghduff is growing dramatically, as are Aherla, Killumney and Ovens. On the other side of the Lee, over in Carrig, there are Dripsey and Coachford. Large numbers of houses have been built in this area and people are moving in. They want to be able to get to and from college on time. They want a bus that will give them an opportunity to get to work.  The background work by the NTA is under way on these routes. Its plan is to have three strands of the 233 service, for example in the north, centre and south, to serve the various communities. Again, the NTA is coming up against the roadblock I have described. It was very clear when we raised the matter with them that, as much planning as it has done, it is held up waiting for PSO funding to be able to advance the routes. The 233 is an essential service to serve communities right down the Lee valley.  Can the Minister give an indication of when the NTA can expect to get the PSO funding to have the routes in place? Cork North-West needs delivery, certainty and fairness, not further delays. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I thank the Deputy. I reassure him again that the Department, its Minister, Deputy O\u2019Brien, my fellow Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, and I are fully committed to delivering a more sustainable, inclusive and accessible transport system for the benefit of current and future generations. In the Programme for Government: Securing Ireland\u2019s Future, the Government committed to the continued roll-out of the Connecting Ireland rural mobility plan. Investment can be seen in the enhanced route 521 between Newcastle West and Charleville. This enhanced service now includes the addition of an early-morning service and higher frequency services from Thursday to Sunday. It operates seven daily return services from Monday to Wednesday, nine daily return services from Thursday to Saturday and four daily return services on Sunday. The route also provides late-evening and peak-time services for commuters and improved connectivity to Limerick city.  The NTA has stated a number of new routes and route enhancements under the plan have yet to be implemented. The Deputy mentioned route 256 between Bantry and Macroom. This is at an advanced stage of planning and commencement is subject to funding. Discussions are ongoing between the Department of Transport and the NTA. Currently, they do not have a definite timeframe, but I can assure the Deputy that route 256, and the 257 and 233 he mentioned, will be raised with the Department and the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Brien, and the other Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer. We will see where we can get with them.  I appreciate the Deputy\u2019s passionate plea. Coming from a rural constituency myself, I see the growth in demand for public transport. It is up to the Government to deliver on that. I thank the Deputy. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Bus Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Planning Issues","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  This is not the first time I have raised the issue of commercial drone fast-food deliveries in residential areas. Last week, we had the announcement from Manna Air Delivery, which was the company operating in Dublin 15 and Cork, that it is suspending and pulling out of Ireland.  Residents who were suffering as a result of the noise and lack of privacy, and who had wildlife concerns, etc., but who particularly suffered as a result of the noise, peace and quiet in their back gardens and neighbours having been lost, are celebrating. This technology was very invasive. It was brought in without any proper consultation. The company seemed to operate without having to go for planning permission. When it was forced to do so by community action and by communities getting organised and challenging the way the company was operating, the council started to take notice. The local authority started to act.  I have a list of issues that residents have raised with me and I am directly using the words they have sent me. How is it that commercial drone delivery operations were permitted by this Government to roll out without prior public consultation and without environmental or health impact assessments being done? For two years, Manna Air Delivery was granted a licence by the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, and was able to bypass public consultation. It provided its own statements without any objective evidence concerning noise and environmental impact. It took a year-long effort by communities, certainly in Dublin 15, including the residents' group Drone Action D15. Public meetings in Dundrum were well attended. It makes no sense. Every piece of technology that comes along does not have to be embraced. It should depend on its social usefulness. One hundred people suffer unbearable propeller noise for one person to get a cup of coffee flown over to them. Who said we needed that? As a journalist said, this was answering a question that was never asked.  We now need to look at the fact that the noise of drones in residential areas make them an unacceptable technology. There are loads of good uses for drones, and I am all for their use in topography, photography, emergency medicine and many other areas. Flying burgers, takeaways and coffees in residential areas is not a good use. We need to ensure that commercial drone deliveries are not allowed again in residential areas. The national drone policy that will be drawn up must reflect that. Commercial drone companies must be required, like everybody else, to apply for planning permission for bases they are setting up and for the impact they have.  Manna Air Delivery was operating in a regulatory vacuum. There is now a framework whereby the public are considered stakeholders and must be consulted. It seems that was something this particular company did not like. It did not like the fact that the public had to be consulted. It had strong opposition in Cork and Dublin 15. That it was mooted to go into Dundrum and Dublin city brought a huge reaction from residents. We now have a framework and we must ensure that the IAA is not lagging behind and enforces it, not just on behalf of the people it regulates, such as the drone operators, but also on behalf of the general public. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  I thank the Deputy for raising this matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien. I note Manna Air Delivery's recent statement that it will for now cease deliveries by drone in Ireland. The Minister recently met with representatives of Manna Air Delivery and we welcome the company's continued commitment to operating significant research and development and manufacturing bases in Ireland, where it will test, design and build drones. The company will continue to pursue international opportunities with the Irish bases central to that strategy.  From an aviation safety perspective, the regulation of both the recreational and commercial use of drones, or \"unmanned aircraft systems\", UAS, as they are technically called, is provided for under European Union regulations that are directly applicable to Ireland. Two drone-specific EU regulations ensure drone operations across Europe are safe and secure. Regulation 2019\/947 sets operational rules that apply to both professional drone operators and those flying drones for leisure. Another regulation sets the common EU-wide technical requirements for drones and the features and capabilities that drones must have in order to be flown safely. This regulation also seeks to foster investment in the industry.  The Irish Aviation Authority, the civil aviation regulator, oversees the implementation of the EU regulations and standards. The drone regulations are operation-centric and focus on the risk of drone operations so regulation is lighter on low-risk operations and more demanding on high-risk operations. Under the EU regulatory regime, drone operations are classified into three broad categories, open, specific and certified, with different regulatory considerations applying to each category. Commercial drone operations may fall into any one of the categories depending on the risk associated. Low-risk commercial drone operations, such as aerial photography, which the Deputy mentioned, may fall into the open category where regulation and oversight of operations are lighter. Other commercial drone operations, such as drone delivery operations, are more closely regulated. These types of commercial drone operations may fall into the medium-risk specific category, which may require specific authorisation by the IAA. This type of operation is recognised EU member states. To obtain an operational authorisation, an operator must provide a comprehensive safety portfolio, which includes assessing and addressing both ground and air risks with appropriate mitigations. Manna Air Delivery holds such an authorisation from the IAA. In addition to complying with the drone regulation, drone operators are also subject to national laws, including environmental, planning and data protection laws.  While there is a comprehensive regulatory framework in place from an aviation perspective, there are areas where the rapid pace of expansion of UAS operations has resulted in gaps and uncertainties. The Government, aware that the impact of the growing UAS sector needed further consideration, included in the programme for Government a commitment to guide high-level strategic planning and the development of the sector in Ireland. The national policy framework for UAS, agreed by the Government, was published by the Minister in August last year. The policy framework aims to guide high-level strategic planning and development in the drone sector in Ireland through support, growth and innovation, while ensuring safe and secure operations. It seeks to identify and address any policy, regulatory or legislative gaps that may have arisen due to the pace of the expansion of the drone operations. These include areas such as planning and noise regulation where the rapid pace of expansion of drone operations have resulted in gaps and uncertainty. The policy framework proposed a number of structures and actions that aim to address concerns in relation to UAS usage and operations in balance with the realisation of the economic and societal benefits from the emerging sector.  There is also a need for clarity on areas outside aviation safety and in respect of the roles and responsibility of bodies. Since the launch of the policy, the Department of Transport has also established the national policy monitoring group and this group will support and monitor progress on the implementation of the framework. I will continue with the rest of my response later. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I urge that the framework specifically rules out these drones operating in residential areas. They cause considerable physical and mental health damage to residents who are suffering under them. The Minister of State said in his reply that the drone companies must comply. They are \"subject to national laws, including environmental, planning and data protection laws\". How come Manna Air Delivery was not so subject for two years? How come it was operating in bases that had no planning permission? Its representatives came in front an Oireachtas committee and told the residents that they could have a no-fly zone over their homes. When residents wrote to the company asking for that, it was never implemented. The company has been operating with impunity. It was funded, by the way, by Enterprise Ireland.  I want to comment about jobs. Nobody wants to see any jobs lost as the result of a business closing. Manna Air Delivery has stated that 10% of its 200 employees will be affected, so 20 jobs are potentially at risk. That is the fault of an employer for establishing a company without proper planning. It is extremely antisocial. It had no consultation. There was no assent or buy-in from the community. It is estimated that the company had approximately 1,000 customers. The population of Blanchardstown is 150,000. There was not huge enthusiasm for this technology. It replaced delivery riders on e-bikes. It replaced delivery drivers, too. I would imagine that the balance in jobs will even out.  There were also environmental claims. The delivery had to be driven to the drone base from the takeaway.  Huge claims were made about the benefits of this technology to society. The game is up now because residents got organised in various communities. I see this as a victory for communities over big tech. Tech is not inevitable and we do not have to accept every single thing that is foisted on us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney  Implementation of the policy framework is tracked and reported on through a series of annual action plans and progress reports. An implementation action plan for 2026, which sets out actions and corresponding timelines, is available on the Government's website. It is important for the public to know that.  I am aware that the rapid pace of expansion of UAS operations has resulted in challenges and generated real concerns and uncertainty among communities, as the Deputy explained, particularly around the issues of noise, intrusion and privacy. The policy framework seeks to identify and address any policy regulatory or legislative gaps. The framework proposes a number of structures and actions to address concerns in relation to UAS usage and operations. It proposes 16 actions under three main areas: the use of airspace and planning; compliance and enforcement; and enterprise and innovation. Actions in the policy framework include the establishment of a national working group on UAS geographical zones to develop transparent processes and procedures for the designation of these zones; the safe management of the integration of UAS into our airspace; the impact on society and the environment; the establishment of a national u-space steering group to develop a national plan for the implementation of the u-space; a set of specific procedures designed to ensure safe and efficient access to and coexistence in airspace for the high volume of UAS; and the establishment of a UAS enterprise and innovation leadership group to foster the development of a robust ongoing policy on innovation.  Implementation of the policy framework relies on cross-governmental structures, and the continuation of engagement and support from various Departments, agencies, the UAS sector and most importantly the public. I encourage the public to keep engaging on this particular matter. I again thank the Deputy for raising such an important matter. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Planning Issues"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Job Losses","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  The issue of mass redundancies in the tech sector is very live at the minute. One of the companies we are speaking about this morning is Covalen. The actions of this company have been far from savoury in terms of the treatment of the employees it is making redundant. It has rejected calls for better severance packages and declined a request to start the process of voluntary rather than compulsory lay-offs. The tech industry faces major structural issues mainly as a result of AI. We have seen it across the board. However, the actions of Covalen are particularly sinister in the treatment of its employees. It is making bonus payments available as a gesture of goodwill, but these bonuses had already been earned by the workers.  Given the pace of change in the tech industry, what new or expanded reskilling programmes, particularly in the area of AI, cybersecurity and advanced digital skills, will be funded to help displaced workers transition quickly into high-demand roles? I know my colleagues will speak in particular about Covalen but the tech industry is under attack from AI. While AI may have many benefits, the Department needs to seriously look at redundancies in that industry. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I have been working with this particular group of Covalen staff since January when the initial threats of redundancies were mooted. Since then, we have seen much larger redundancy numbers hitting this group. It has been an inspiring experience to work with them. They are a newly mobilised part of the workers' sector where tech and data workers are realising how precarious their jobs are right now in the context of artificial intelligence.  Rather than going over what has already been discussed in the Chamber, I will pick up from an exchange last week when in response to questions from Deputy Pa Daly, the Minister of State said that Ireland has a strong robust legal framework in place to protect workers experiencing redundancy. I really want to question and interrogate that today. Although these workers have been mobilised, because we have a voluntary system they have found this new understanding of workers\u2019 rights but then they have been faced with the fact that the company does not have to meet them there. One of the workers who emailed me stated, \"Currently a majority of impacted staff do not meet the criteria for the statutory redundancy entitlements - it is crucial that the department intervene to demonstrate that AI related job cuts of this magnitude are not allowed to have such disproportionately negative consequences for workers\" "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  Covalen is a window into the future for hundreds of thousands of workers in this country and across the world about AI replacing their jobs and then being made redundant by companies that have made enormous profits off the back of those workers and then leave those workers high and dry. In the case of Covalen workers, nearly 1,000 workers have lost their jobs over the last year, 720 recently, almost halving the workforce. They trained the AI to replace them and then they got left high and dry. As Meta has said they cannot work for another six months for any other company, what are they supposed to do to pay the rent?  Covalen, a wholly owned subsidiary of Cpl, an Irish company which has contracts with the Government, is refusing to even talk to the workers\u2019 trade union. These are people who protect us from the toxic disgusting content of social media as content moderators. They do an important job in our society and are being treated like dirt. Many of them will walk away with nothing or minimum statutory redundancy while Covalen has made enormous profits for Cpl and for Meta. The Government should not allow this and should use the leverage of Cpl contracts with the Government to say it will not get any more Government contracts if it treats workers like dirt like this. It is in the interest of every worker to support Cpl workers because this is the future for other workers if Covalen gets away with this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Dillon  I thank the Deputies for bringing this important matter to the floor the D\u00e1il. As they are aware, on 27 April 2026 Covalen informed its employees of its intention to reduce its workforce. My understanding is that the company has been impacted by a shift in client demand, resulting in a reduction in the volume of services required and a requirement to adjust operations accordingly.  My first and most immediate concern, and that of the Government, is the potential impact on employees and their families during this uncertain time. In response, the IDA has been engaging at a senior level with the company to ensure it is aware of the full range of IDA supports available at this time and will continue to do so. IDA Ireland has established an internal process for managing potential job-loss situations with its client companies. In respect of impacted employees, the IDA is proactively engaging across its client base to identify potential redeployment opportunities where there is a skills match. The IDA has also facilitated connections between interested companies and company representatives, and this work is ongoing.  On the broader comments, I will talk to Deputy Gibney\u2019s point regarding the Government\u2019s publication of the action plan on collective bargaining, which has been welcomed by the social partners. That is currently being implemented to ensure that employees\u2019 and employers\u2019 voices are recognised. The situation also raises a broader issue which was mentioned - the impact of artificial intelligence and technology on the changing labour market and on jobs. I think we need to be clear and honest that artificial intelligence is a transformative technology with significant potential for Ireland's economy and competitiveness.  Equally, there is a challenge in that we are all trying to predict how work will evolve. We recognise the very real concerns about job displacement but the evidence suggests that AI is more likely to augment jobs than replace them. We will see some displacements, which is natural, but the nature of work will also change significantly. That is why Government policy is very much focused on preparing workers for that transition. We have published the national digital and AI strategy which is very much focused on how we can invest in upskilling and reskilling, and how we can support workers to adapt and ensure Ireland continues to remain competitive in a changing global economy.  We must deal with the immediate impact of job losses while also preparing for the long-term transition of work. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  The treatment of the Covalen workers has been absolutely toxic. We have workers who have been involved in a company that has made millions as a result of their work, including moderating, as Deputy Boyd Barrett alluded to, yet this company is treating its workers with such disregard by offering two weeks statutory pay and saying they are getting bonuses as a goodwill gesture. They have already earned these bonuses, which were due to them anyway. The notion that we would allow a company to act in this manner, given the profits it makes, is absolutely disgraceful. As a Parliament, we have to do something about this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I cannot think of a better description than \"head in the sand\" for the Government's response to AI and labour displacement. To tell us that labour is going to be augmented and not displaced because of AI is genuinely shocking to me. When I raise AI and labour displacement, this is what I get - we are focusing on reskilling and retraining, jobs are going to improve and we are going to have better jobs. There is no recognition of the massive transformation that is happening in society and there are no efforts to deal with it. If this is the Government's canary in the coalmine and an example of what is happening, and this is its response to what is happening to Covalen workers, then we are doomed because there is so much more of this coming down the track. To pretend that it is just going to make jobs better is so ridiculous. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  AI potentially threatens to do to hundreds of thousands of workers what is being done to Covalen workers. That is why we have to act now. AI aside, there are mass collective redundancies where companies refuse to talk to trade unions - as is happening in this case - do not consult with workers, dump workers and leave them high and dry, even though they have made big profits. We have seen that before with Debenhams and in many circumstances, yet the Government continues to allow it to happen. The Government must demand that these companies engage with workers and their trade unions, and use the Government's leverage with Cpl to tell it - an Irish company - that it cannot treat workers like this and if it does, it is getting no more Government contracts. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Dillon  I thank the Deputies for their contribution. The Government fully understands the impact jobs losses have on workers, their families and communities. In the immediate term, we are very much providing the supports, which are being mobilised. We are also engaging with the IDA, the State agency, in terms of redeployment. That is actively being pursued. Engagement with the company is ongoing.  Looking beyond the immediate situation here, we have recognised that technological change, in particular AI, will certainly reshape our labour market. We have been very clear on that. My Department continues to monitor this very closely and the impact it will have on our labour market. We have engaged with the research from the expert group on future skills needs, which very much highlights the rapid growth of AI adoption in Ireland, the strong demand for AI-related roles and the robust pipeline we have in terms of skilled workers that are emerging. It is important to re-emphasise that notwithstanding the adaptation that will be required and the significant challenges that will present in terms of how that transition is managed, that is why we have funding for research which is very much focused on future skills needs.  We are also supporting lifelong learning in terms of reskilling and monitoring the labour market in real time. We are not being passive in this space. We are very much engaging with the Department of further and higher education and many industrial sectors. Our responsibility is twofold: to support workers affected today but also to ensure that workers are equipped for the jobs of the future. Ireland's workforce is ready to grow and thrive in an AI environment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Job Losses"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Early Childhood Care and Education","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  My question relates to the reception class in St. Joseph's Co-Educational Primary School in East Wall in Dublin 3. A reception class has been running there since 1984. It is in its 43rd year. It is a pre-junior infants class, so effectively there is a three-year infant cycle. It was one of four pioneering schools that has run such a class. Now there is only one school in the country providing such a reception class. The fantastic thing about this reception class is that it is not like preschool or a cr\u00e8che . It is about the first step in adapting to the school environment in disadvantaged communities, such as my own in Dublin Central and particularly in East Wall, which is a really diverse community that has had many decades of disadvantage. That reception class is critically important in affording children the ability to access supports for language development, school readiness and transition into junior infants.  We know that not every child going into junior infants in this country goes in as an equal. There is no level playing field. Some children, particularly in more advantaged families go into primary school with far greater social and educational skills, but it is different in other areas. In particular we know there is uneven access to literacy and numeracy for preschool-going children. The reality is that this is a very important class that has worked well for many decades in St. Joseph's Co-Educational Primary School. Earlier this year, the school was told that it was going to lose the post that allows it to continue running that class, which would have a devastating impact for many across the community.  The reality is we do not have many preschools in the East Wall area. We have two preschools, and then you have to go as far as Se\u00e1n McDermott Street to access the next preschool. There is a huge gap in the area, but that alone is not a justification for holding on to the reception class. The reception class does amazing work. The Holy Child Pre-School in Rutland Street, which started as a pilot, has performed a similar and brilliant role over many decades but it has been left in limbo by the Department. There has been a reduction in the early intervention classes being run out of primary schools in recent years. I passionately believe these classes have a very important role particularly in disadvantaged communities.  Will there be ongoing certainty for St. Joseph's in East Wall with regard to the continuation of that reception class into the future? It has certainty for the coming school year but not beyond that. There is an enormous appetite and demand within the local community to ensure that the reception class, albeit that it is unique across the education system, continues long into the future to support children to adapt to the primary school environment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Education and Youth (Deputy Michael Moynihan)  I thank Deputy Sherlock very much for raising this matter. As she rightly said, a reception class has been in operation in St. Joseph's Co-Educational Primary School, East Wall, since 2002. This class operates as a preparatory infant year for four-year-olds. The reception class was one of a small number that operated prior to the establishment of the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme, to provide pre-junior infants education in certain communities. With the wide expansion of the ECCE scheme, this is now the only reception class that operates in the country. The Department has engaged with the school in respect of its teaching allocation for 2026-27 and has sanctioned a teaching post for the reception class for 2026-27. The Department will continue to engage with the school early in the 2026-27 school year with regard to the reception class. The early childhood care and education programme is a Government-funded, universal preschool programme designed to give children their first formal experience of early learning before primary school. It is funded by the Department of Children, Disability and Equality.  To cut to the chase, back in 2002, this class was sanctioned and it has been operational within St. Joseph's Co-Educational Primary School for quite some time. I have no doubt what Deputy Sherlock has articulated this morning are the facts. It has been a huge enabler for children prior to going into primary school and has given them certainty in it.  Sanction was given for this year and, as it is one of the only ones operational in the country, we continue to engage with and monitor it. A lot of investment and funding has gone into the education system and we continue to do that in urban and rural Ireland. The commitment I can give the Deputy today is that there will be early engagement with the school authorities in the next school year because we understand the value of it. It has been articulated in various documentation through the Department and extremely capably by the school authorities.  As the Deputy mentioned, it targets a particular cohort in a challenged community and has been a great enabler for it. We have sanction for 2026-27 and we are serious about engaging early in the school year in the forward planning for it. When it has been in operation - if my maths are correct, it is going into its 25th year this year and it has a long-established tradition - generations of students have benefited from that year. However, we have to evaluate it because we continue to invest in trying to upskill all school communities. The school community there has done amazing work and has taken advantage of the extra year to make sure the students coming from disadvantaged areas benefit fully from it, as the Deputy articulated.  Our commitment is for this year, 2026-27, and we will engage early with the school authorities again. I will take the valid points the Deputy made strongly on board as we prepare to engage with the school authorities early in the next school year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  My request is that the Department show ambition, particularly regarding communities where not every child goes to school equal at the age of five. The role and value of the reception class is critical, not just for the East Wall area and it should be looked at in other areas.  It is also important to say, as I understand it, this is not the first time there has been a wobble in the Department about the reception class for St. Joseph's. The class started 43 years ago. It was terminated around 1999-2000 but the Department reinstated it in 2002. That is the critical thing. This class has worked for generations of people in East Wall. It has worked for other schools as well. Unfortunately, it was taken away in other schools.  The Department needs to seriously look at and build on the work of DEIS plus and all that, by looking at particular schools and the transition into the primary school system. While the early childhood care and education, ECCE, programme is fantastic, it is a one size fits all and that is not good enough, nor should it be the height of ambition for the Department of education. Particularly in disadvantaged communities and diverse fast-growing communities like East Wall, it is critical we hear from the Department that it is willing to continue funding the post and this class long into the future. The teachers tell me they can see the results when a child goes into junior infants and that has to be recognised and broadened out in the education system. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Moynihan  There has been a huge amount of investment at Department of education level in terms of disadvantage, including in DEIS and so on. We are not blind to the fact that there are massive challenges in some communities with disadvantage. We are applying the resources to make sure we give every child the best possible chance in disadvantaged areas and across the education system.  In parallel, the early childcare scheme has been hugely funded. The funding that has gone into it in the past quarter of a century to bring it up to standard has been quite amazing. There are two pieces. One is the early childcare scheme to make sure we are giving two years - it is not long ago that it was just one year - and to make sure children are as prepared as possible to go into primary school.  We are constantly looking at where patterns and initiatives have developed in communities. The Deputy is right that this goes way back, beyond the 25 years since 2002. It was to capture a particular cohort of students. We continue to invest in the DEIS programme and to monitor it. This programme has been operating in the school for quite some time. We continue to monitor it and engage with the school and the outcomes. We have to be mindful of the investment going into the education system and the most important measure of that is to make sure children have positive outcomes when they go from primary school to post-primary school and on to adulthood. We have to constantly evaluate that to see whether we are targeting the right resources at the right communities, and to make the best possible choices for children into the future. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Early Childhood Care and Education"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aindrias Moynihan)  Seanad \u00c9ireann has passed the Health (Amendment)(Home Support Providers) Bill 2025 without amendment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"State Responsibility for Foundation Retention Risk in Defective Concrete Homes: Motion [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":29,"speakerCount":28},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aindrias Moynihan)  Leanfaimid ar aghaidh leis an gc\u00e9ad \u00e1bhar eile, an tairiscint maidir le freagracht an St\u00e1it maidir le coinne\u00e1il priacail i leith bunsraithe i dtithe le coincr\u00e9id lochtach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:  notes that:  \u2014 thousands of homeowners affected by defective concrete have spent years living with uncertainty regarding the safety of their homes, the adequacy of available remediation options and the long-term security of their families;  \u2014 many affected families have experienced repeated changes in engineering advice, evolving scientific understanding and revisions to the redress scheme throughout that period;  \u2014 for homeowners undertaking remediation works, decisions regarding whether existing foundations should be retained or replaced are among the most significant and irreversible choices they will make;  \u2014 the Defective Concrete Blocks Grant Scheme permits the retention of existing foundations in affected dwellings in accordance with the updated National Standards Authority of Ireland I.S. (Irish Standard) 465:2026;  \u2014 research underpinning I.S. 465:2026 has identified pyrrhotite and other sulphide minerals in the concrete foundations of affected homes, with evidence of oxidation and early-stage internal sulphate attack in some cases;  \u2014 the scientific basis underpinning I.S. 465:2026 remains limited in duration, scale and longitudinal evidence, and does not conclusively establish long-term foundation performance;  \u2014 as a result, I.S. 465:2026 operates in circumstances of acknowledged material scientific uncertainty regarding long-term structural durability; and  \u2014 affected homeowners are being required to make decisions about retaining or remediating foundations in conditions of that uncertainty, with significant financial, legal and psychological consequences;  recognises that:  \u2014 the State is relying on I.S. 465:2026 as the governing technical standard for remediation decisions, despite acknowledged scientific uncertainty in its underpinning evidence;  \u2014 where the State adopts a Standard in conditions of uncertainty, it must bear responsibility for managing resulting long-term structural risk and not transfer it to individual homeowners;  \u2014 homeowners should not be exposed to future liability or repeated remediation costs arising from limitations in the scientific evidence base underpinning the Standard; and  \u2014 in circumstances where failure mechanisms may be latent, progressive and not fully observable within assessment timeframes, policy must err decisively on the side of homeowner protection; and  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 commission an independent international review of the scientific basis of I.S. 465:2026, with specific focus on sulphide-related deterioration mechanisms in foundation concrete and their long-term behaviour;  \u2014 publish in full the evidential basis, assumptions and uncertainty ranges used to justify foundation retention under I.S. 465:2026;  \u2014 amend the operation of the Defective Concrete Blocks Grant Scheme to ensure that no homeowner is required to retain foundations where there is material engineering uncertainty regarding long-term durability;  \u2014 provide an explicit entitlement for homeowners to opt for full foundation replacement where reasonable doubt exists as to future performance;  \u2014 ensure that responsibility for residual long-term structural risk arising from application of I.S. 465:2026 remains with the State and not individual homeowners; and  \u2014 report to D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann within six months on the implementation of these measures and on any revision required to I.S. 465:2026 in light of emerging scientific evidence.  I thank all those who worked on this motion, particularly my staff and 100% Redress party councillors who work every day on the ground dealing with owners of homes with defective concrete. I thank Dr. Chris Brough and Professor Paul Dunlop for their extremely important research on this topic. I also thank all the Opposition TDs and their parties for supporting this motion.  The motion is about the State making decisions about people's homes in circumstances where its own technical standard accepts the science is not fully developed in certain foundation cases. These decisions determine remediation, housing security and the level of uncertainty families are left carrying for decades. At the centre of this is a simple question. When the science is not complete and the State must still act, who carries what remains unresolved? Is it the State or the homeowner?  I should inform the House that I am directly affected by this matter and I deal with it every day. I am living with a defective concrete crisis. I am not relying on this at this stage of the argument but I mention it because it requires me to examine engineering reports and technical matters in great detail. What these reports make clear is not a disagreement about whether the risk exists. It is how the uncertainty is defined in the system and how it is carried into decisions that affect homes, finance and long-term security. The real issue is how known limits in technical knowledge become policy decisions. The governing standard says that the state of knowledge relating to foundations is insufficient to provide guidance for certain combinations of aggregate and active internal sulfate attack, ISA, risk factors. This is the precise limitation written into the standard. It acknowledges there are defined foundation conditions where scientific knowledge is insufficient for decision-making. The standard continues that undertaking sampling, testing and analysis of foundation concrete is expected to strengthen the knowledge base and inform future editions of the document. Therefore, the framework is not final. It is expected to evolve as more evidence becomes available.  Since tabling this motion, I hosted a scientific briefing in Leinster House attended by researchers directly involved in investigating defective concrete deterioration mechanisms across Ireland. The purpose of the briefing was not to challenge the science. It was to listen to the science, which was presented. It reinforced a point already acknowledged in IS 465, that is, that understanding continues to evolve as more testing is undertaken and long-term evidence becomes available. The research highlighted that the scale of the affected properties will continue to expand significantly as testing progresses and deterioration becomes visible on properties that may not yet exhibit symptoms.  This is precisely why this motion matters. When an evidence base is still developing, public policy must be designed to accommodate the reality, rather than assume all future outcomes are already known. It also states the purpose of foundation concrete testing is to identify, first, aggregate types, second, deleterious materials, and, third, potential future deterioration. Testing identifies risk factors but it does not resolve how these factors behave over time in every case. Importantly, foundation testing does not provide a full evaluation of a foundation's current conditions, which would necessitate more extensive sampling for inspection. Even after testing, there are recognised limits to what is known about the structure. This is a technical engineering standard and is not designed for conveyancing or property transactions but, in practice, it is now influencing mortgage assessments, insurance decisions and property values in affected areas. This is not theatrical. This is already reflected when homes are valued, financed and traded. In places like Donegal, defects and uncertainty are already visible in the housing market.  The House should reflect carefully what was presented at the scientific briefing. The research did not present an estimate for all homes in Donegal. Analysis indicated a minimum of 12,000 homes in Donegal alone may ultimately fall within the high-risk category. That does not include social homes, of which there are 2,400, or community buildings, of which there are hundreds. It does not include commercial premises or mixed-use buildings. The distinction is extremely important. When we hear a figure of 12,000 homes, we are not looking at the full housing picture. It is a baseline. We are looking at only one segment of it. For years the State has pointed at figures of approximately 10,000 affected homes nationally, yet we have scientific analysis to suggest Donegal alone will exceed that figure. If that analysis is proven correct, the scale of this crisis has been profoundly underestimated.  We must ask ourselves whether future risk has also been underestimated. The position is clear. The science is incomplete in defined areas. The standard acknowledges this directly. Decisions are still required within a framework. When that happens, uncertainty does not disappear. It is carried forward by the system and, in practice, the homeowners. The classification approach in the standard reinforces this structure. It states that foundation concrete should be classified in accordance with samples of foundation concrete from the highest risk classification. That would be the core sample taken with the most damage. Where multiple indicators exist, the highest classification must apply. Risk is not averaged. In determining the strongest identifying factor, where uncertainty is not fully resolved, it is not eliminated at the point of decision. It is deferred. This is the issue. Deferred uncertainty returns later as further remediation works, higher public costs and increased complexity as scientific understanding develops over time. What is not resolved does not disappear; it re-emerges later on. It will be more costly.  This motion is not a criticism of the scientists, engineers or researchers who have worked on and informed IS 465 - quite the opposite. Good science identifies not only what is known but also what is not yet known. The research has been transparent about the limits of current evidence. We need ongoing testing and expectations that understanding will continue to develop. The question before the House is, therefore, whether we trust a science. The question is whether policy is responding appropriately to what the science is telling us. We have remaining uncertainty. This policy question is not a scientific one. This motion does not challenge the standard. It accepts what it states. It asks straightforward questions of policy coherence.  Where the State accepts scientific knowledge is not yet complete in certain foundation conditions, should the consequences and uncertainty be carried by the homeowner by default? If the answer is \"Yes\", then this is a clear policy choice. If the answer is \"No\", the system must adjust to reflect the reality of what is going on. This matters because the decision before us is not simply about foundations; it is about the consequences of being wrong.  The State has got this badly wrong once already. We are 14 years into this. Poor quality materials entered homes across affected counties and families are still paying the price today. We are being asked to make long-term foundation decisions in circumstances where the Government standard acknowledges limitations in current knowledge, where the evidence base continues to evolve and where there is uncertainty regarding long-term performance of retained foundations. If the scale of defective properties is significantly greater than previously understood, then potential consequences will be enormous.  Saving money today by retaining foundations where reasonable doubt remains may reduce immediate expenditure but if those assumptions are proved incorrect in the years ahead, the cost will dwarf any short-term saving. The cost will not be simply financial; it will be measured in homes requiring further remediation, families forced to go through a process for a second time and properties that become difficult to finance, insure and sell. In a housing system already struggling to meet demand, the State's first failure contributed to this crisis. It would be unforgivable if, in attempting to resolve it, we were to spend public money in a manner that risked creating an even greater housing crisis.  When uncertainty remains, caution is not an expensive option. Caution is a reasonable option. It is important to be clear what this means in practice. These are not abstract issues. They affect a home and whether a home can be sold, remortgaged or insured. They affect whether families can rely on their homes as stable, long-term assets. They affect financial security and the housing market in Donegal and all affected counties. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  I thank Deputy Ward for tabling this important motion and for his diligent attention to detail on this issue. It is about making sure the Government cannot get away with just burying the issue and saying it is now dealt with - it is definitely not dealt with. This has fundamentally been the approach of the past number of Governments in terms of trying to bury this from the very start of the scandal.  The campaign started in 2011. Affected households were fobbed off for nearly ten years, forced to campaign strongly, forced to protest and forced to organise in an extremely impressive way that put huge pressure on the Government before finally getting a remediation scheme that may turn out to be based on faulty scientific evidence. I pay tribute to the campaigners who got us to this point and who continue to push. I thank them for their generosity with their time and solidarity in assisting us when we were getting the campaign of redress for those affected by apartment and duplex defects off the ground. They had plenty of things on their plate but were willing to come to big meetings and small meetings to talk about their experience and how a campaign could be built on an issue that fundamentally has the same foundations, in the sense of a lax approach to regulation by the Government and various corporate operators operating like cowboys to maximise profit at the expense of ordinary householders.  The problem is the remediation scheme we now have may be based on faulty scientific evidence. We heard from Deputy Ward how IS 465:2026 may not stand the test of time. It acknowledges that itself by admitting there is uncertainty about the scientific evidence. That uncertainty might not be anyone's fault but it is certainly not the fault of affected households. We know that for a fact. That has to be the guiding principle in this. None of this is the fault of affected households. They should not be the ones to suffer the consequences. Unfortunately, they have been the only ones to suffer any real consequences to this point. Pending the outcome of legal cases, it is not clear Donegal County Council, the National Standards Authority of Ireland or the block suppliers and quarry operators will be made to pay. Cassidy Brothers Concrete Products Limited, Cassidy Brothers Topmix Limited and Cranford Concrete Products Limited are all being taken to court by affected households. The scale of the scandal remains huge.  We heard a lot of scientific evidence and detail in the briefing organised by Deputy Charles Ward and the 100% Redress Party yesterday but I have to say the thing that stuck with me most was the evidence suggesting that we are not even at the middle of this scandal yet; we are only in the early phase of this scandal. The broad public outside the counties which have the most affected households up to this point would be shocked to realise that we are only at the start of this process. I think the Government may be shocked to realise this but the evidence presented was very strong. The latest scientific evidence is that 20,000 houses in estates in Donegal, Mayo, Clare and Limerick are affected. That does not include one-off housing, which we know there is a lot of in those counties, social housing, business premises or community buildings. We also know that defective concrete is not confined to those four counties and that it is a problem in other counties as well but we do not have sight of the sort of numbers that would be involved there. The 20,000 households is not the whole picture but only part of it.  The central problem with IS 465:2026 is that it allows the retention of concrete foundations in certain circumstances - circumstances that may turn out to be based on faulty scientific assumptions. The evidence presented yesterday was absolutely compelling. Geoscientists Professor Paul Dunlop and Dr. Chris Brough told us about sulphide oxidation, internal sulphate attack, long-term deterioration mechanisms in defective concrete that can affect retained foundations. That is a huge problem because the foundation of your house is exactly that. It is the foundation upon which everything else rests. If the foundation is faulty then your whole house, your whole home and your whole life is insecure - you are literally resting on faulty foundations.  No matter what happens above ground, if your foundations are faulty you have a very big problem. Imagine the psychological impact of that for a moment. We have all seen the pictures and heard the stories and you can talk to Deputy Charles Ward about the reality of living in such a house. You have gone through the heartache of your home falling apart and potentially the massive stress of campaigning to fight for some sort of justice for yourself, your family and your local community, you have gone through the hassle of applying for remediation and the disruption of having the house substantially rebuilt and now it could turn out that the foundation is still faulty. In a worst-case scenario the whole thing may need to be demolished and rebuilt again. That is an unthinkable prospect for people. It is enough to drive anyone over the edge. Even if demolition is not needed in future, the fact that uncertainty remains about the long-term durability of the foundation creates massive issues for homeowners. Their remediated house is still not the same as another house. If there is still a bad smell around it for prospective buyers, banks and insurance companies, they may face difficulties remortgaging or if they need to sell for whatever reason \u2013 if they need to move somewhere else in the country or out of the country or any other reason \u2013 they simply cannot sell their house and so they are stuck with this. To add insult to injury, all this can then be passed on to their children after they die, turning what has been a nightmare for one generation into a nightmare for the next. It is an inter-generational nightmare for which responsibility fundamentally rests with the State and the various companies.  The underlying issue underpinning all this is that the State is still refusing to take full responsibility for this crisis even though it was the State that created the flawed standards and failed to police them and that came up with flawed remediation schemes which we were warned about at the time. Let us remember this is not just glorious informed hindsight but we had some of these arguments at the time. None of this is the fault of the homeowners yet they are still paying for this every single day. We would not be here debating this today if the ordinary people affected had not got organised, demonstrated and forced the Government kicking and screaming to take action but now we have to say that the action has to be appropriate and measure up to the latest scientific evidence and be adaptable to the latest scientific evidence.  In the water charges movement we had a slogan, probably the most popular slogan of the movement, which was \"No way, we won\u2019t pay\". That should be the guiding light here as well in terms of the cost being put on individual homeowners who bear no responsibility whatsoever. It is not their fault; they must not be forced to pay financially, emotionally, psychologically and in the massive disruption to their lives. It is not right for all this to be put on them. It is the State and the private companies who are responsible and they should pay not ordinary homeowners. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan)  I move amendment No. 1:  To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:  \"notes that:  \u2014 the Defective Concrete Blocks Grant Scheme (DCB Scheme), which provides grants to help those affected by defective concrete blocks to remediate their homes, is underpinned by the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 (2022 Act);  \u2014 over 3,500 homeowners are now at various stages of the DCB Scheme, and will be supported with grants for 100 per cent of eligible expenditure up to a maximum cap of \u20ac462,000 per household, and this represents a 10 per cent increase in the maximum cap since the DCB Scheme launched in 2023;  \u2014 more than \u20ac336 million has been spent on the DCB Scheme to date, with a commitment to more than doubling the level of funding for 2026 to \u20ac175 million, and to continue higher investment levels over the entire period of the National Development Plan 2026-2030;  \u2014 the DCB Scheme is actively helping homeowners to rebuild their homes, allowing them to move on with their lives;  \u2014 over 500 homes have been fully remediated to date, with approximately 750 more currently at various stages of construction;  \u2014 additional counties continue to be added to the DCB Scheme, clearly showing the Government's commitment to help all those affected by the legacy defects caused by defective blocks;  \u2014 the legislation refers to I.S. (Irish Standard) 465:2018, the Standard which provides for the assessment, testing and categorisation of damaged buildings incorporating concrete blocks containing certain deleterious material, which was published in November 2018, and the 2018 version of the Standard did not require any testing of foundations as there has never been any evidence of damage to foundations, and the DCB Scheme and the underpinning legislation make no provision for such testing;  \u2014 in November 2021, as Ireland's official standards body, the National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI) was tasked by the Government with a special review of the concrete Standard, this review started in March 2022, and has been conducted by the TC 63 Concrete Blocks Committee of the NSAI, membership of this Committee included representatives of the concrete industry, Engineers Ireland, the Geological Survey Ireland, homeowner action groups, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Housing Agency; and  \u2014 a new revised Standard, I.S. 465:2026, was recently published by the NSAI on 2nd June, 2026, and the revised Standard is based on new research in the area, it entails quite significant changes from the previous Standard in that, under the new Standard, almost all houses with defective concrete blocks would be demolished, and furthermore, the Standard provides for the testing of the foundations of each house in case they may be found to be affected at some point in the future, notwithstanding that there are no current cases of damage to foundations; and  agrees that:  \u2014 aspects of the changes entailed by the new Standard require detailed consideration in terms of the DCB Scheme, and could entail significant financial implications for the State if adopted under the DCB Scheme;  \u2014 the 2022 Act requires that the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shall, on the publication of the revised Standard, undertake a review of the legislation, the Act also requires that, not later than three months after the completion of the review, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shall make a report to each House of the Oireachtas of their findings and conclusions resulting from the review, and it is intended that this formal review of the DCB Scheme will be initiated by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shortly;  \u2014 existing DCB Scheme participants who have already received their determination under I.S. 465:2018 will have the choice to continue with their works;  \u2014 the review will focus, as per the provisions of Section 51 of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022, on the operation of the Act in the first instance, with all matters relating to the introduction of I.S. 465:2026 and its interaction with the DCB Scheme being considered as part of the review, and this will include the matter of foundations; and  \u2014 the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage will consider all implications of the new I.S. 465:2026, and make recommendations to the Government on any proposed changes to the DCB Scheme as soon as possible.\".  I would like to thank the group involved in bringing this motion to the House today. The case is well made by Deputy Charles Ward, in particular. No one has lived this experience the way he has. No Member of this House can say they have lived and breathed this issue the way he has, having personally experienced it, so I completely appreciate the points and sentiments made. That is no disrespect to Deputy Murphy, in that his point is made as well but I wanted to say at the outset that Deputy Ward has lived this and can speak about it with authority.  The standards were just revised on 2 June. We have to rely on the science that we have. There are mixed messages. On the one hand Deputy Murphy is saying the science is faulty. Deputy Ward is saying he has full faith in the science and the scientists. We have to decide whether we trust the science and the evidence we have as per the revised standards or not. If I can give a shred of comfort, despite the fact we are proposing an amendment, the Minister has committed to reviewing the Act as quickly as possible. I do not have an exact timeline for that but it will be reviewed as quickly as possible because, as the Deputy said, new evidence is always emerging.  Today's motion sets out a number of matters relating to the recently released national standard. I will do my best in the time I have to address as many as I can. As the debate progresses, I am sure there will be time at the end to address further issues during the time allocated for concluding remarks.  First, I would like to emphasise the Government recognises the distress experienced by thousands of homeowners caused by the use of defective concrete blocks in their homes. My Government colleagues and I are absolutely committed to ensuring that all such homeowners are provided with the right assistance to remediate their homes to allow them to move on with their lives.  The publication of the new standard is welcome. The Deputies will be aware that in November 2021 as Ireland's official standards body, the National Standards Authority of Ireland was tasked by the Government with a special review of the previous standard. This review started in March 2022 and has been conducted by the TC63 concrete blocks committee of the National Standards Authority of Ireland.  Membership of this committee included representatives of the concrete industry, Engineers Ireland, the Geological Survey Ireland, homeowner action groups and the Housing Agency. The Department also participated in this group during the full period of its deliberations on the revision of IS 465: 2018. The State also funded the required independent research that contributed significantly to the review of the standard. My Department remains in regular contact with those affected and we continue to work to listen to homeowners as we keep the scheme under review to identify where we can improve how it operates.  The level of commitment shown by this Government to affected homeowners is clearly shown by our actions over the past few years. Principally these relate to the funding we have provided and the way we have extended the scope of the scheme as and when needed. Finally, there is the very real and practical way in which we monitor how the scheme is working within the framework of the legislation set down by the Oireachtas and how we adapt to changing circumstances to improve the scheme for homeowner participants on a continuous basis, including making amending legislation in the Houses last year.  Over 3,500 homeowners are now at various stages of the DCB grant scheme and will be supported with grants for eligible expenditure up to a maximum cap of \u20ac462,000 per household - this represents a 10% increase in the maximum cap since the scheme launched in 2023. More than \u20ac336 million has been spent on the scheme to date and Government funding for this work continues to be provided as and when required on an annual basis, with a record \u20ac175 million allocated to fund the scheme in 2026 - that is more than double the amount allocated to the scheme last year and reflects in the increase up take in the grant scheme.  Over 500 homes have been fully remediated to date, with approximately 750 more currently at various stages of construction.  When the current grant scheme launched in 2023 it contained four designated local authority areas. In 2024 Sligo County Council was added to the scheme and this year parts of Fingal County Council and Wexford County Council were added to the scheme. Parts of Meath County Council and Carlow County Council will also shortly be added to the scheme. Following the commencement of various parts of the defective concrete block (amendment) Act 2025 , the Minister, Deputy Browne, adopted regulations in February and June that provided welcome improvements to the grant scheme. The February regulations allowed homeowners who had suffered construction inflation to apply to the scheme for an increased grant, which resulted in them receiving additional funding to remediate their homes. The June regulations operationalised further improvements, including a key change to allow certain homeowners apply to the scheme to enable them to build a new property adjacent to their defective home and remain in it until the new home is completed. This has provided welcome relief for families who have homes adapted for the needs of members of the household. These regulations also recognised that there are many affected homes that are attached to other affected homes, such as semi-detached properties. Prior to this change, if one of the two attached dwellings did not meet the scheme damage threshold, it could not proceed to obtain a determination from the Housing Agency. The regulations provide a route for this cohort of applicants and provide a pathway for them to receive a determination under the grant scheme. The point is there have been adaptations and amendments since the grant scheme was first introduced.  The current grant scheme was designed in accordance with the prevailing scientific evidence available at the time. With the publication of IS 465:2026 we have the most up-to-date science available that will help shape changes to the grant scheme following a review of the operation of the 2022 Act. This requirement is contained in section 51 of the Act. It requires the Minister for Housing must initiate a review within three months of the completion of the review of the national standard, I.S. 465:2018, and that within months of the completion of the review he shall make a report to each House of the Oireachtas with his findings and conclusions of the review. I understand the urgency of this review for homeowners. Officials in my Department have already begun preparation work that will assist the review. A request for legal advice was submitted to the Attorney General's office and it has provided initial advice on the implications of I.S. 465:2026 for the grant scheme, with further advice expected in the coming weeks. The initial advice has indicated current scheme participants can continue to proceed with their works under the determination given to them. I emphasise that the review will focus, as per the provisions of the 2022 Act, on the operation of the Act in the first instance.  All matters relating to the introduction of IS 465:2026 and its interaction with the grant scheme will be considered as part of the review of the 2022 Act. This will include the matter of foundations. I appreciate that naturally there has been significant focus on the foundations issue arising out of the publication of the revised standard. My understanding is that there were a range of views submitted to the NSAI regarding the impact or otherwise on foundations in the medium to longer term. Until this important review is complete it would be premature for me to speculate on exactly what changes may be required to the grant scheme with regard to foundations or indeed any other aspect of the scheme. I want to ensure that, as we now have the most up-to-date science, proper time and consideration is given to understanding how this new knowledge impacts the scheme and how we can best use it to assist applicants to the scheme.  I am very much aware also of the very real concern out there among homeowners who wish to have clarity and certainty about how their sometimes unique sets of circumstances will be catered for going forward. A balance will have to be struck between a robust and comprehensive review and the need to have this done in a timely manner that pays due respect to the real concerns of homeowners. My Department has been working closely over the past few weeks since the publication of IS 465:2026 with the designated local authorities, the Housing Agency and the homeowner liaison officer. A number of meetings have taken place to assess the potential immediate impact of the revised standard on scheme participants. Communications will issue shortly from my Department to update homeowners in detail, where appropriate, on where they stand following the IS 465 revision.  This Government has always committed to following the science when it comes to the defective concrete blocks scheme. The approach I have outlined in my speech is once again clear evidence of this. I conclude by thanking the National Standards Authority of Ireland for the time and effort that went into the new standard. I specifically acknowledge the efforts of the committee members and acknowledge that this voluntary work was time-consuming and difficult. That outlines the current situation. The new standards have just been published. The potential impact is still being realised but, as has been the case since the grant scheme was introduced, we have always amended and adapted it and introduced new measures and provisions. If it is necessary to do so again, we will do that, but the Minister has committed to reviewing the Act as quickly as possible and bringing that report to the Houses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I have huge sympathy for the people affected by this in Donegal, Mayo, Clare, Limerick and other areas because I live in an area where we had the blight of pyrite. So many housing estates in our area were affected because the quarry was situated there. It did not regulate itself and there was a lack of Government regulation. Thousands of people were impacted by this and I campaigned on it and held public meetings on it over the years. This is slightly different but the principle is the same, namely, developers have been allowed to do whatever they want. Any time there are building defects they are not made to pay and it is often the State that pays. That is a political decision by Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael and the other parties that have been in power with them.  This is quite a technical motion but the basics of it are that people are in a situation where they do not know whether what the Government is providing is going to work and whether it will be enough. They cannot be the people who are left paying for this because of a lack of government regulation of developers. We know the history of the Minister of State\u2019s party in particular, including the Galway tent and all that. The lack of regulation stems from that. Since the last motion was put on this issue I understand the number of homes affected by the defective blocks could rise to 20,000. That is up from the 9,500 mentioned at the housing committee last year. Only 435 houses built with defective concrete blocks, or 13% of the homes, have had remediation works and the State-funded scheme to address the situation has not been sufficient. At the time of the last motion the standards that were used to determine remediation under the scheme were being revised and reviewed. People are essentially being asked to make a decision on retaining or changing a foundation based on uncertain grounds and a complete absence of long-term knowledge. This motion is asking for a full independent review of the standard and in particular wants the remediation scheme to acknowledge this uncertainty. The State has a responsibility to these homeowners. It cannot be a one-and-done situation. The State must provide long-term supports for those affected and it requires a long-term commitment from this Government.  I will mention the experience of people of with pyrite in their houses in many counties. The Minister might clarify something about the Pyrite Remediation Board. It was going to finish this November. That cannot happen. As recently as yesterday I was in a home in my local area. The woman who lives there is a teacher and has owned it for 20 years. She bought an affordable home and it is still cracking. There are cracks appearing in the walls and ceilings and there are holes. There is movement of the home. The assessment she had done \u2013 this is a real problem \u2013 indicated the house had pyrite level 1, which is not enough to be fixed under the remediation scheme, whereby a house must have at least pyrite level 2. There are thousands of people in this situation where there are homes that are not going to be fixed by the scheme. What are they meant to do? Obviously they cannot sell the homes. The engineer who did the assessment also said there were huge levels of shoddy workmanship and shoddy building practices. The company that did those homes has moved on, with a new name I believe, as they do. It is building away and profiteering from the housing shortage. I do not know the figure but I know people in my local area who have been - diagnosed is not the right word - assessed as having pyrite level 1.  They have not been able to avail of the scheme. Somebody has to fix their houses. It is the fault of the developer and the State for not having the building regulations in place that pertain in most advanced capitalist countries. They are just not in place in Ireland.  According to the reply to a parliamentary question that I asked, the pyrite remediation scheme has fixed 2,932 homes. That was due to campaigns by residents. It was not the Government waking up one morning and saying, \u201cWe should do the right thing.\u201d It was a campaign of public meetings in my own area, petitions, meetings with the council and meetings with politicians. That was the case in other areas as well. There were protests outside the D\u00e1il before I was ever a TD. It was the residents who had to campaign. In fairness, the pyrite remediation scheme worked very well for the residents I spoke to, who were at level 2 and were able to get their whole home fixed and accommodation sorted out. Kudos for that, but it is leaving out people whose homes were said not to be sufficiently damaged. However, those homes are still heaving and there is still movement. It should not cost as much as it would to fix a house from scratch, or anything like that, but they need to be fixed.  I also want to raise the other building regulation issues that have arisen. I have been contacted by people in apartments in Ashtown who have had a levy put on their management fees in order to pay to fix fire safety defects. The residents, who probably paid hand over fist for the apartments, are being levied to pay to fix fire defects. They have applied to the Housing Agency under the statutory remediation scheme, but they had to go to TDs to ask if we can also push to see if they can get any reimbursement. What is the story? It is bad enough that they have to raise the money to get it fixed and that they are having difficulty getting reimbursed. I am sure there are several schemes that the housing Department is involved in, but the fact there are schemes like that shows that there also has to be some scheme for the possibly hundreds of homes that did not have sufficient pyrite for it to be fixed fully under the remediation scheme.  I want to send my solidarity to all of those affected by the defective concrete blocks issue. I have seen first-hand the impact it has on people's health. Where there is damp and dust, anyone with an asthmatic or respiratory condition could testify that it has made it much worse, but there is also the issue of dealing with a crumbling home. The home is the one safety and security people have in their lives. To see this constantly happening to the adults, children and teenagers affected is unbelievable. When are we going to hold building companies to account in this country? Light-touch regulation or no regulation at all is what happened here. It led to these situations where quarries were not regulated and, therefore, mica, pyrite and all of these issues have developed. To allow builders to build and move off, and to then have the residents themselves pay for safety issues in apartments, is completely out of order. It is beyond time that this was dealt with. I fully support the motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn  When you read the book Defects written by my colleague, Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin, you realise that the decisions that led to this absolute disaster emanated from this Chamber. Again and again over the years, Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Governments and Ministers were challenged about the regulation of the building and construction industry. Again and again, they failed to properly regulate and oversee that industry, and we will pay a devastating cost for generations. As has been said, last night, we learned from Chris Brough, the head of Petrolab, an expert who is testing these concrete blocks, that he estimates the number of houses that will be affected is going to be over 20,000. I believe that is a very conservative estimate. The cost to the Exchequer will not be what the Taoiseach, Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin, said, which is \u20ac3.6 billion. It will be over \u20ac9 billion, and I believe that is a conservative estimate. We are going to be haunted by this for generations because of the utter political failure. Where we are at now is on a scale with the bailing out of the banks and the bondholders. That is the impact this will have.  It goes deeper. I live in the epicentre of this. My friends, my family and my neighbours are utterly devastated. Can we imagine it? The biggest purchase of your life is your home, the roof over your head. You commit to it with a mortgage for years and years. It is your castle, your pride and joy. All your memories, everything, are built around that. For a long time, I have seen the utter devastation of the impact and cost of the decisions that were made in this Chamber, the neglect that took place in this Chamber, and the relationships that people who are in this Chamber had with people who were building and manufacturing. It reached its apex during the Celtic tiger. That is when so many of these homes were built utterly recklessly.  I want to be very clear, although it has been said already. The Government wants to move on. It wants to say that it is on top of this: \u201cSee that protest with 20,000 people. We have all moved on from that now.\u201d To be very clear, it is just the beginning of the realisation of the scale. There are housing estates in Donegal near my home area where only 10% or 15% of the whole estate is being rebuilt. All of those houses will have to be rebuilt. Tens of thousands of properties will have to be rebuilt. It will be a massive amount of money that will impact us for generations, thanks to people in this Chamber who made those decisions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin  I thank Deputy Charles Ward for bringing forward this enormously important motion, but also for inviting Sinn F\u00e9in and other Opposition parties to co-sign it, which we did with enormous enthusiasm. It is deeply disappointing that the Minister has tabled the amendment. In fact, what it says to me is that he is not listening to homeowners in the affected counties. What Deputy Ward and others have put in the motion is eminently reasonable. It is to encourage further scientific clarity to support homeowners.  The gap between the Government's rhetoric on the scheme to date and the lived reality of affected homeowners is growing ever wider. The numbers do not lie. It is eight years since the Government took a decision to introduce a defective concrete blocks scheme, six years since the first applications were received, four years since deeply problematic, controversial legislation for a renewed scheme was rushed through this House and three years since that scheme opened for applications. How many homes have been fully remediated in that time? According to the Department, the most recent update from May is 527. In eight years, only 3,500 homes have applied, and about half of those have been approved.  Why? This motion goes to the very heart of it. It is because of the uncertainty underpinning the science and the fact that it is not 100% redress. I spoke to a woman with a modest home in County Clare that needs a full demolition and rebuild. She had to find an additional \u20ac80,000 to cover the cost of her home, and that is not an unusual case. Of course, there is the ongoing bureaucracy and delay in decisions.  I am also deeply disappointed that the Minister is not able to give us a timeline for the review. This review is crucial to fix the many aspects of this broken scheme. We need the Minister to tell us when the review will be, who it will be led by, what the terms of reference will be and what the outcomes will be. Without a timeline, we are going nowhere. This motion is sensible and reasonable. The defective concrete blocks scheme is utterly broken and needs urgent reform, but there is simply no urgency whatsoever from the Government. That is not a surprise. The entire history of the Government dealing with building defects has been a lack of ambition and urgency.  A case in point is that we still do not even have the underpinning legislation for the redress scheme for Celtic tiger era building defects.  We were promised it would be introduced at the start of this year and be passed before the summer, with the Minister saying he hoped people would be able to apply for that scheme by the end of 2026. The legislation has not even been written yet. Deputy Coppinger is right; the two schemes for interim fire safety works and retrospective repayments are not working. Not a single retrospective payment has been paid to date, and only three schemes out of approximately 200 have got into the interim fire safety. It is utterly broken and needs change but this Government is not listening. However, I commend this motion to the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I welcome Deputy Ward's motion and am delighted to be able to sign it. There is no doubt that huge credit is due to people like Professor Paul Dunlop and his colleagues at Ulster University, as well as Members of this House, including members of my own party such as Deputy Mac Lochlainn and others who have led the charge along with Deputy \u00d3 Broin in relation to this area here.  The reality is that the Government has got this wrong. For many years, we have stood in this House and in committees and told the Government it is analysing the wrong problem and that, as a result, it is coming up with the wrong solutions. Now, the penny has dropped. The international evidence has been accepted and the standards have been updated. However, there are now many people in my county and other counties who have been told the remedy was something flawed. Outer leaf was nonsense, partial demolition was nonsense and downgrading of the assessments was absolute nonsense, but the Government refuses to listen over and over again.  In the middle of all this, as we are talking about blocks in houses and costs and all the rest, there are human beings and families who are living in these situations. The Government continues with the misery, pain and hardship because it still will not recognise what needs to be done here. We need a full 100% redress scheme - an end-to-end scheme such as the one we in Sinn F\u00e9in put forward to the Government many years ago. For six, seven or eight years, we have been telling Government that the people of Donegal, Clare, Mayo and right across the west coast and beyond deserve the same rights as those who had it on the east coast, who got 100% redress and an end-to-end scheme.  The reality is that the Government wants to put its head in the sand and hope this will go away, but it will not. No matter what tinkering the Government does with this scheme, it is not going to work for many people because they do not have \u20ac50,000, \u20ac60,000 or \u20ac70,000 under their mattress; it does not exist. There are people at an age in life who should never be asked to manage rebuilding their home. Why? Because it was not their fault. It was the Government's fault. As Deputy Mac Lochlainn said, it was the Government's fault because it cosied up to builders and developers and filled its pockets down in the Galway tent, allowing for no regulation. That has caused havoc in my county. It has destroyed the lives of people.  Now that the Government has finally seen sense with regard to the standards, it should please listen to the experts, the people on the ground and the Opposition when we tell it to stop with the tinkering. We need a 100% redress scheme, we need an end-to-end scheme and we need to end this misery once and for all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputies  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  I thank Deputy Ward for bringing forward this motion. It is no surprise that I and my colleagues are very happy to support it. It is very important we all work together to tackle this.  However, the Government is still not listening; it is not hearing what is being said. That is the great tragedy of all this. Since we started this nearly 12 years ago - or more than that - on the Erris peninsula in Mayo, the Government has not listened. If it had listened, we would now have a 100% redress scheme and many people would have their homes and lives rebuilt. I cannot understand why it is inflicting this cruelty on people through no fault of their own. This was negligence of Government; it was a lack of regulation. Now, we see all kinds of other things where we are told regulations are too strict and we need to deregulate things. My God, there is a human cost to this as well as the monetary and opportunity costs.  Yesterday, Dr. Chris Browne and Professor Paul Dunlop - I do not know where we would be without them and their colleagues in Ulster University who have brought forward the science on this, because the Government has not done it - presented the cost as being estimated at \u20ac462,000 per property for 20,000 properties, which will be at least \u20ac9.2 billion. That is what is coming out of taxpayers' pockets to do this. There has not been any proper attempt to recoup some of that money from anywhere else, as was done in Wales, as Dr. Browne explained to us yesterday, where there was a division of the responsibilities and how the redress funds were set up. It has not been set up like that here but the decisions have to be based on the science.  The other very important thing which came up yesterday was foundations. We have said all along that foundations have to be tested. For God's sake, Engineering Ireland has told the Government that. It cannot sign off on properties where the foundations have not been replaced. People cannot afford the gaps that are there. Deputy Doherty spoke about the gaps of \u20ac80,000 or whatever, but there are gaps of up to \u20ac100,000 that people are asked to find to pay for the Government's negligence on this.  The off-ramping situation also has to be looked at in order to be able to speed up the testing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  Thousands of homeowners affected by defective concrete have spent many years living with uncertainty in their homes. They have constantly worried every time there is a storm whether their house is going to survive, and I have helped some of them as they navigated the inadequate remediation options. I have watched as they have become experts in what is destroying their homes. When they finally get approval for a scheme, they are left with decisions on whether the existing foundations should be retained or not, or whether they can even afford to get the foundations removed on top of all the other costs involved in a so-called 100% redress scheme.  In the Minister of State's amendment, he states that 3,500 homeowners are now at various stages of the DCB scheme and will be supported with grants for 100% of eligible expenditure with a cap. In his opening statement, there was no mention of 100% redress, and I have yet to meet anyone going through this scheme who has not had to pay tens of thousands out of their own pockets to fix or rebuild their homes.  The Minister of State also said the DCB scheme is actively helping homeowners rebuild their homes, allowing them to move on with their lives. Has he gone out to meet these people? The process they have had to go through on a rebuild is not that simple. I have met them and they actively cannot just move on with their lives; it is not that simple. They have had to spend years fighting the system and many hours learning what it is that is destroying their homes, and they have had to beg and borrow in order to rebuild their homes. The mental scars they have been left with mean they cannot just simply move on.  The Taoiseach promised 100% redress and he has let the people down. The Government talks about changes and that a new standard could entail significant financial implications, but those who are actually responsible should be held to account. The homeowner should never have to be the fall guy when they are already the victim, but of course, it is easier to lay it all in the hands of families who just want to live in a home that is safe and secure. Does the Government even care that they have to borrow? Some couples I have met are in retirement and cannot get a loan. At a time in life when they should be enjoying the time they have, they are spending it in constant worry.  There are families out there living in crumbling homes and homes affected by fire safety regulations who have no choice but to continue living there until they fall down, because of the failure of this Government to make them feel they can rebuild with a 100% redress scheme and move on with their lives. We have repeatedly raised this issue with successive Governments for years now. I have attended protests over the years with those in Clare who are affected. The light-touch building regulation, poor oversight of construction products and the reckless practices of some manufacturers, builders and developers have left thousands of homeowners with the devastation of crumbling or unsafe homes.  They did not ask for this, and it is time the Government gave a genuine, 100% redress scheme delivered by the State from end-to-end. The standard IS 465:2026 is welcome and should be included. Professor Paul Dunlop has to be commended for this. I commend Deputy Ward on the motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Kenny  I commend Deputy Ward on bringing forward this motion here today. The reality is that we are here because of the light touch regulation of Government and the practices of quarries and those who developed the concrete products used through the boom across many parts of the country. In my own constituency in Sligo, we have hundreds of houses that have been affected, and it has also spread to other areas. It is not just the counties on this list.  It is important to recognise there are houses outside of it and people in other communities that are also affected.  I spoke to some people in a housing estate. They can see the issues, they are talking about them and they have spoken to the county council. They are afraid to tell their neighbours they have this problem because everybody is frightened of what impact it is going to have on the value of their home and that of the other houses built around them. The worry all this causes is devastating. That worry is compounded by the Government having refused to put in place a scheme that will actually give 100% redress.  I welcome the changes in the new regulations, where we now see that there is at least a recognition it may not be mica or pyrite in some of these houses. It may be other minerals causing these issues. I know of a number of cases where tests were done. I am thinking of two houses in particular. The first test said those houses had mica, while the second said they had none. They are going off now for a third test to see what the situation is. If the result again states there is nothing, then these people will be back in a situation where they do not comply with the standards. We have got serious issues here with many people who have serious problems.  The other issue is that it is not just blocks in many cases. It is other concrete materials, including the foundations. I welcome that this aspect is now going to be examined and will be part of the scheme. For years, however, we have been saying this, and the Government has refused to listen. The reason the Government has refused to listen is because it wants to continue to back away from the problem it created. The Government created this problem through light-touch regulation and the cosy relationship there was with the people who provided these products. The builders, who in so many cases are innocent, bought the products in good faith and put them into the houses. Who was left to foot the bill? Only the householders. We need to see a proper scheme put in place to give people at least some sense that the Government has their backs in these circumstances. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I thank Deputy Charles Ward for bringing forward this motion and for giving us the opportunity to co-sign it, which, as my colleague said, we were more than pleased to do.  I have been dealing with the legacy of the Government\u2019s soft touch or, indeed, non-existent regulation since I was elected. The core point here, and this is the thing that is very often lost, most especially on Fianna F\u00e1il Ministers but also on the Government in general, is that my constituents in north County Dublin did absolutely nothing wrong. They bought their homes. They made what is the biggest investment of their lives in good faith. They are not engineers. When the builder told them that the house was up to scratch, they expected that it was going to be up to scratch. For decades, thousands of them have endured their homes crumbling. Can you imagine the trauma of not feeling safe in your home? It is the one place where you should have a right to feel safe and secure. While the lads who were in the Galway tent will sail away off into the sunset, happy, rich and benefiting from the sale of those homes, the people they left behind will deal with the trauma for generations.  Homeowners in Lusk are now being told they will have to pay for another test to get a green certificate, when they were told back in 2013 that they had to wait three years and would then get their green certificate. They are not getting it now. They have to get another test that is, potentially, going to cost them \u20ac2,500. This is never-ending. These people have been dealing with this situation now for 20 years. They bought their homes in 2003 and, within a couple of years, those houses started to crumble. The problem is never going to end unless the Government is prepared to deal with it. Likewise, Fingal was only admitted to the new scheme this year and already people are being told that this scheme is not fit for purpose.  I ask the Minister of State to please withdraw the Government\u2019s obnoxious amendment and listen to the people, and their representatives, who are dealing with this issue. I also ask him to acknowledge the role of his party, the Galway tent, its cosy relationship with developers and all that has happened, and to have the decency to say sorry to people and to make proper amends. A 100% redress scheme should mean 100%. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  On behalf of the Social Democrats, I am very happy to speak to this issue today. I commend Deputy Charles Ward on the work he has done in bringing this motion to the floor of the D\u00e1il and for his tireless work on this issue. We are very happy to co-sign this motion. I will also mention that my colleague, Deputy Rory Hearne, is unavailable today, which is why I am stepping in. He remains, as we do as a party, 100% committed to 100% redress and to communities, particularly along the west coast, so horrifically impacted by this issue.  I also thank Deputy Ward and his team for the new research we were briefed on yesterday. Key to what we learned from that briefing, and it has come up a number of times already today, is that the County and City Management Association, CCMA, previously estimated at an Oireachtas committee that the number of homes affected by defective concrete blocks stood at 9,500. Members heard yesterday, however, that there could actually be up to 20,000 homes, and that is just the figure for private estate homes. This estimate excludes data from social housing, businesses and community buildings.  In relation to the Government\u2019s amendment, it is significant that a new revised standard, I.S. 465:2026, was published on 2 June. This new standard does allow for the testing of foundations, which is a key point of today\u2019s motion and for the campaign to date, but the ball is now very much in the Government\u2019s court. It now needs to review these new standards and make recommendations regarding any proposed changes. People will be postponing works while they wait on the outcome of these changes, and these are works which, in some cases, may have been in train for ten years.  I also wish to speak about the administrative issues associated with the scheme. Deputy Ward has brought a number of cases to the floor of the D\u00e1il. He has discussed how some constituents of his were assessed and, subsequently, their remediation options were downgraded from full demolitions. If the guiding principle of these assessments is I.S. 465:2018, and this is causing people to have to stay in unsafe homes or is not providing sufficient remediation for the demolition needed, then the standard itself must be re-examined. The State cannot allow people to stay in unsafe homes due to an outdated standard applying to assessments. As of April, only 13% of applicants had completed the remediation process, with 87% stuck in administrative limbo.  This is where we now see the massive human cost of this scandal. Homes with defective concrete blocks are linked to a severely high prevalence of mental health conditions. Rates of depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, complex post-traumatic stress disorder and suicidal ideation were \u201ccomparable to those seen in disaster-stricken and displaced populations\u201d, as noted by one researcher in 2025. Researchers from Ulster University called for immediate, targeted mental health interventions for those affected by the issue of defective concrete blocks. There is extreme trauma in these communities and families that will have knock-on effects in these communities for years and generations if adequate supports are not provided to people in tandem with the appropriate and accessible redress schemes.  People living in these homes have described their lives as existing and not living. I have had conversations with people living in homes affected by this issue. I have previously mentioned their names here in the Chamber; Ms Marti McElhinney and Dr. \u00c1ine Sperrin. They spoke about how frustrating the process of getting redress is, how families are unable to finance a demolition that has been approved, and how they are unable to find somewhere to stay in the meantime, while their towns are dotted with short-term lets. They told me stories about engineers telling families that their houses needed to be knocked, only for the scheme to only approve partial works. They told me how all these costs have to be paid upfront by families who simply do not have the money, how the communities affected by this crisis are some of the most impoverished in the country, how their houses are literally falling down around them, how the knock-on impact means that children suffer health issues connected to living in unsafe conditions, and that those with disabilities are stuck in crumbling buildings because they cannot get temporary accommodation that is accessible. As has been raised time and time again, the mental stress and strain of this impacts every single aspect of people's lives. We are not only letting them suffer; we are denying them the basic rights of health equality and adequate standards of living.  Picking up on one of the points raised by those contributors, there is a dearth right now of alternative housing. This is because there has been stagnant social housing delivery for decades. There are estimates that 12,000 homes in County Donegal will need to be replaced. These people will need to be housed but, as is the case up and down the country, there is nowhere for them to go. There are very few homes to rent and fewer again of these are affordable homes. It is welcome that the scheme will be expanded to those who need it, but the problem of where people will live while works are ongoing will follow this scheme wherever it is available.  This brings me to my next point, which is that side-by-side building should be allowed under the scheme. Currently, side-by-side building is not permitted under the defective concrete blocks, DCB, redress scheme. This would have allowed for families to remain on site and not bear the burden of rent or storage costs while works are ongoing. In the last five years, 300 homes have been built, and over 3,000 people currently trying to go through the scheme are stuck in this process.  For children with additional needs, the disruption of moving home for the duration of the rebuild has been raised by parents as an issue. Finally, I want to speak to accountability because lax regulations and a hands-off approach from successive Governments has allowed cowboy developers to wreak havoc in communities across Ireland and essentially sowed the seeds for this scandal. Now, these cowboys are facing no consequences. These are builders who used defective materials, built dangerously, and then walked away, leaving families and children to suffer the consequences of their carelessness and pay for it with their homes. The vast majority are still building. A number of them are getting very high-profile public sector contracts. It seems there are no consequences. There is remediation in this scheme but it is not close to justice.  I want to pick up on one line in the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan's statement, before the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, arrived. He said, \"The level of commitment shown by this Government to affected homeowners is clearly shown by our actions over the past few years.\" It just does not ring true compared with every contribution that we are hearing here today. The countermotion the Government has put forward needs to be withdrawn. The Government needs to support this motion. It is a detailed, technical motion, put forward by an expert and the community he represents, who are experts in their own lives and their own situations. We need 100% redress. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I support this motion. I am thinking of the thousands of families across Ireland whose lives are absolutely devastated by the defective concrete blocks crisis. I pay tribute to Deputy Charles Ward for his relentless work on this issue. Since he came in through this door, he has gone at this issue every single week. He could not have worked harder on this. The people who elected him to D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann must be very proud of the work he is doing, so well done and keep going. I have no doubt that the Deputy will keep going. I know he is trying to secure justice, accountability and full redress for the people who he represents in Donegal and throughout the country, so well done to him.  I do not think this is just an issue in housing. It also has community-wide and education effects. As education spokesperson, I am aware that there are 16 schools in Donegal that we know of affected by this crisis, with seemingly a new report every week of it happening elsewhere throughout the country. If there are children in those schools who are living in a home that is affected by the defective blocks, then they go to school and it is the same situation, there is no let-up for that child. As my colleague said, this is affecting people's mental health. The foundations of their life are literally crumbling beneath them. If that is at home and at it is at school, it is utterly heartbreaking for those people.  I am aware the Department of education has confirmed that it is engaging with the schools. I do not know if it engages with every single school because it did not give me that number. If we are spending State money on State buildings and they are defective, it is an utter waste of money and an utter disgrace. This is creating untold anxiety for parents, staff and the children in those buildings. This whole scenario showed a lack of oversight, regulation and accountability. Families have spent years campaigning for their experiences to even be understood and believed. The Government is quite slow on this. I would say people feel a little bit gaslit. I do not think that is good enough. I think it is a shame, when an expert tables a motion, that the Government comes with a countermotion. It is a waste. Why does the Government not just believe what is being said and why does it not listen and get this sorted? As my colleague said, cowboy builders have gone off, not a bother on them, and the State is left to pick it up. Do pick it up and do make it better for the people who are affected by this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  I welcome the visitors to the Gallery. As others have said, I pay tribute to Deputy Ward on the work he has done. Last October, my colleague, Senator Nessa Cosgrove, and I went to Donegal to visit some of the people who are affected by this humanitarian disaster. I thought I knew about defective concrete and that I could quantify in my head the actual scale of the humanitarian disaster but I cannot. I cannot help thinking, every time I think of defective concrete, of putting my hand on someone's house and feeling the wall come away like dust. I cannot help but think of the smell of the black mould in the kitchens we went to visit, the fact that the lights and electricity keep tripping because water is ingressing through everything, and that chimneys fall off people's houses and that is considered to be not that big a deal. I met somebody else who was concerned about their safety and their children's because the walls were crumbling so badly on their house that they are afraid that the roof would come down and crush them.  The Government's amendment to the motion is tone-deaf. The amendment states that the scheme relies on IS 465:2018, which does not require testing of foundations. What is the point of pouring a brand new house onto a cracked foundation? It does not make any sense. The motion notes that 500 homes were remediated. Five hundred homes is a fraction. It is minuscule compared with the true level of need. We had a very informative presentation in the audiovisual room by Professor Paul Dunlop, who is an expert in this area. He quantified that at least 12,000 homes could be affected in Donegal at home. We have this in Limerick too. It is not just an issue in Donegal and the north west. We have this in Limerick city. I have had people in my constituency office in tears because they are living in semi-detached homes in Limerick city. As Professor Dunlop pointed out yesterday, defective concrete takes a lot longer to actually show up in areas like Limerick. A woman who came to see me, who is involved in the defective concrete campaign in Limerick, only had the defective concrete show up when she got an SEAI grant and got the walls pumped. When she got the walls pumped, that effectively showed all the cracks.  The core issue remains, that the people who are suffering this humanitarian disaster are being treated as second-class citizens in comparison to the people who were equally devastated by pyrite in Fingal and on the eastern seaboard of the country. That is a fact and the core of the issue here. The legislation is too narrow. I cannot believe that people are still talking about mica, when the fact of the matter is that this is not just something that affects defective concrete blocks in houses but affects poured concrete and other building material. The core issue, as always in this country with anything during the Celtic tiger period, is the lack of any accountability because we know that, as well as the quarry owners, the political system was up to its neck in this. We have had a total regulatory failure. We have quarries which have and are manufacturing defective concrete and getting away with it.  How has the State responded? It has responded, as it always does to victims of injustice, by forcing blameless citizens to prove that they are not lying, by bureaucratically downgrading their applications at the click of a mouse, and by passing the long-term risk back onto them. The State is effectively telling homeowners to rebuild their lives on top of foundations that we know contain pyrite and other sulphide materials, and it is absolute madness. You are talking about being penny wise but you are really being pound foolish. The standard that the Government is relying on is operating under conditions of material scientific uncertainty. There is no long-term evidence that these foundations will hold up over the next 30, 40 or 50 years. You cannot tell a family to build a home on a questionable foundation and just leave them to hold the legal and financial bag if the foundation fails a decade or more from now.  We need an independent review of IS 465:2026, specifically considering how sulphites and pyrrhotite destroy foundations over time. We need to amend the defective concrete block scheme so no individual is ever forced to retain a foundation where engineering uncertainty exists.  Homeowners must have an explicit, fully funded right to opt for a complete foundation replacement if there is reasonable doubt. We need to ensure that all residual structural risk remains with the State. If the State standard fails, then the State is going to have to pay because the homeowners cannot.  This crisis was caused by a catastrophic failure of government regulation and a total lack of oversight in the quarrying sector, particularly from the Fianna F\u00e1il Government of 1997 onwards. The State completely failed to protect the affected people. It is now time for the Government to stop the ducking and half measures and actually deliver the 100% redress the families fundamentally deserve so that they can have peace of mind.  I welcome every opportunity to speak on this issue. I commend Deputy Ward on his motion because what he is seeking to do is ensure the State assumes accountability for the risk of defective foundations in concrete homes. It is imperative that this burden does not fall on homeowners who cannot afford to pay the difference.  We have a duty as legislators to listen to and reflect the views of the people we represent. The poor families who have been affected should not be expected or forced to bear the responsibility and cost required to remedy the problem when they have gone out of their way to secure a home for their family and made that purchase in good faith, with an expectation that the home they live in will not fall down on top of them.  Homeowners should be able to feel safe in their homes. They should have confidence in the structure of the dwelling they live in. These are relatively basic things. Invariably, when homeowners like these poor people are forced into some sort of rebuild, they have one shot to make it work. They must not be forced to put blood, sweat and tears, and an insane amount of money, into rebuilding their homes only for them to be rebuilt essentially on quicksand. Forcing them to do so is absolutely bananas because once a decision has been made to rebuild, one cannot turn back the clock on it. That is why this is really important.  Through detailed scientific research, it is now known that the problems with defective concrete can be traced to an internal sulphite attack. It is clearly apparent that, with the distribution of this defective and highly damaging concrete material, numerous EU and Irish concrete regulations were violated. It is of critical importance that these regulations be enforced to prevent the status quo from continuing.  As other speakers said, we do not just have defective concrete in homes. There is defective concrete in secondary schools in Limerick. We need the Government to address this by commissioning an independent international review of the scientific basis of IS 465:2026 because we need a greater understanding of how and why this entered the market in the first place.  In my city, Limerick, we reckon 2,500 properties may be affected by concrete defects and deterioration. We need a different approach to this, and that is why I am really disappointed by the Government amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  I thank Deputy Charles Ward for all the work he has done on this. What is the Government guilty of? I sat on the housing committee last term. It is on the record of that committee that I highlighted to the Minister, and all the various witnesses and so-called professionals brought in by the Department, the issues with blocks, foundations and the weight loads on foundations under the new regulations that you try to meet when rebuilding a house. How much has it cost to bring in all the people who have given the Minister the information? We brought in professors and people from all the different sectors to inform the Minister.  Deputy Ward is like me. I am a block layer by trade. I have 35 years\u2019 experience with something that none of the Minister\u2019s professionals could actually even answer questions on when asked at meetings of the housing committee. I was able to do weight loads for them. They could not answer.  Why has it taken so long and why have people been suffering? The Government is guilty. It takes so long to build houses in this country and so long to bring in redress. That is what it is guilty of. It cannot manage anything. It does not take advice from the people who can give it and who can speed things up. If you look at the record, you see the knowledge is available. For God\u2019s sake, will the Government wake up and look at the facts? The information has been available for five or six years but the Government allowed all the families to be put through stress and anxiety, with them not knowing whether their houses would crumble down around them. The Minister sat on that committee with me, so he was present to hear what was put on record. Therefore, I do not even need to verify it. The minutes are available. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  I congratulate Deputy Charles Ward on tabling this motion in the House. I am aware of the tremendous work he has done on redress and I want to acknowledge that here today.  This motion goes to the heart of trust between the State and the homeowners affected by defective concrete. The defective concrete grant scheme allows foundations to be retained under IS 465:2026 but the research behind the standard has already found that minerals have been discovered in concrete, with early signs of internal oxidation and sulphate attacks. The State\u2019s own evidence admits it does not know how these foundations will perform over time. The Government is asking families along the western seaboard, from Donegal down as far as Limerick, to take an irreversible decision to retain something that may have to be replaced in 15 to 20 years\u2019 time. If the State sets a standard, the State must take ownership of the risk.  Deputy Ward\u2019s motion calls for three fair things: the publication of the evidence base behind IS 465:2026; homeowners to be given a clear right to opt for the full replacement of foundations, which is fair and the right thing to do; and the commissioning of an independent international review of the science. That is the right thing to do. I ask everybody in this House, even though Fianna F\u00e1il has not attended the debate and only two Donegal TDs are here, to support this motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I thank Deputy Charles Ward and his group for putting forward this motion. Would anyone in the D\u00e1il like to be one of the people living in the affected homes? That is the reality we are asking families to accept.  We all know that buying a home is the biggest purchase most people will ever make. It is the biggest expense they will carry in a lifetime. More than that, a home is supposed to be a place of comfort, a place where, after a long day\u2019s work, one can walk in the door and feel safe, secure and at peace. For many of the homeowners, that is not the case. Instead, they are going home to houses that are literally falling apart around them, with cracks in the walls and floors and shifting foundations. These are homes that no longer feel safe. While the physical damage to these homes is bad enough, we can only imagine the toll this is taking on people\u2019s mental health, the stress, anxiety, sleepless nights and constant fear of what lies ahead.  On top of all that, we are asking the families to make a permanent decision based on standards where even the science is still evolving. That is not fair and it is not right. Families did not build these homes incorrectly. They did not create the defective materials and they certainly did not write IS 465. The State chooses the standard. The State is asking people to rely on it and, if it is asking them to do that, it must stand over the standard completely. That means that where there is doubt, the benefit must go to the homeowner. It means that if there is any risk in retaining foundations, that risk cannot and must not rest on the shoulders of ordinary, hard-working families. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  Gabhaim m\u00edle bu\u00edochas leis an Teachta Charles Ward agus leis an bhfeachtas at\u00e1 ann mar gheall ar defective blocks, agus de bharr an r\u00fain at\u00e1 os \u00e1r gcomhair faoi l\u00e1thair. Communities have been battling for years in relation to the very basic premise that the house they have paid for should be of a standard that they can live in and that can stand.  Communities have been battling for years in defence of the basic premise that the house they paid for should be of a standard they can live in and that can stand. Aont\u00fa has been solidly behind the campaign over the past decade. I have visited many homes in Donegal with Mary T. Sweeney and witnessed the devastation. We have held public meetings in Donegal about the issue. We have marched and spoken at demonstrations in Dublin. The truth is that families' lives have been absolutely destroyed by what has happened. Local authority buildings, public buildings and schools have been left in a situation where the blocks are crumbling around them. This has happened because of light-touch regulation by previous Governments. The fact that nobody has ever been held to account is at the heart of the problem. We have a system whereby the Government allowed light-touch regulation and then did not provide for any enforcement of any regulation. Therefore, there is a responsibility on the Government to ensure there is proper compensation and these homes are brought back to proper physical standards.  I have no doubt but that there is a spatial element to this. If those defective blocks were in south Dublin, there is no doubt in my mind that the Government's approach to the issue would be significantly different. It would make sure that proper standards were in place and the proper financial supports were in place as well. There is definitely a Dublin regional bias in respect of this issue.  The Government talks about 100% redress but house owners will tell you that there is a significant difference between the redress that has been achieved and delivering the change in the buildings themselves. This legislation is still making it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for many people to come up with the necessary finance to pay for the work that is being done.  It is not just happening in Donegal. It is also happening in Mayo, Clare and Limerick, and now Meath and Cavan have been brought in too. I ask the Government to sit down with the families and not to draw out the situation any further. I ask it to ensure there is proper investment and that the standards being used in rebuilding and redress are the standards that are scientifically appropriate, as ascertained by the campaigners. That is not the case at the moment and as a result, it is creating serious difficulties for families. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  I thank Deputy Charles Ward for tabling this latest motion on behalf of families who are living in defective homes and who have waited years for help. They have got some assistance but not anything near what is needed. As I have said previously, the Deputy is meeting his mandate 1 million times over and I am happy to support him.  This motion is important for families on the western and north-western seaboards but also for those in other counties, as we have increasingly found out. The motion references the lack of redress, but also specifically focuses on the scientific gaps in IS 465:2026, such as the lack of long-term evidence on sulphide-related deterioration and the impossible decision this places on homeowners when they are asked to make what are going to be irreversible decisions about the nature of their foundations and the works required when they have no way of knowing.  The Government amendment attempts to pass the buck or put it down the road. It does not address the issues. It lists the spending commitments and the process reviews, but is still placing the burden on the families to carry the long-term risk of failures that they clearly did not cause. This has, as we know, nothing to do with snag lists or anything like that. It is about woeful incompetence that was not monitored by the Government. The review required under existing legislation is not the solution but a delaying tactic. We had years of weak oversight and a regulatory system that did not police the standards. Others have mentioned the cosy relationship between the State, sectors of industry and developers, which allowed the defective blocks to enter the market unchecked. We cannot put the burden on families when the coffers were filled for the companies and businesses, some of which have gone bankrupt. That money has long since been spent. The Government failed to enforce its own rules. This motion demands tangible action, an independent review and full transparency and that homeowners be allowed to choose the foundation replacement where uncertainty exists. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Gabhaim m\u00edle bu\u00edochas leis an Teachta Ward. B\u00edonn s\u00e9 i gc\u00f3na\u00ed ag caint faoin \u00e1bhar t\u00e1bhachtach seo. B\u00edm ag \u00e9isteacht leis agus cloisim an br\u00f3d at\u00e1 aige as T\u00edr Chonaill. I have visited some of them in my own capacity since we last spoke about the issue in this Chamber. Some of the houses in the northern part of my constituency have faced concrete defects and other issues. I welcome the Deputy's motion, particularly in respect of IS 465:2026. Irish standards were set to protect Irish people. They should not be punishing them.  We must also ensure full and fair redress and ensure that it keeps happening. What happened in my constituency, and as too often happens, was that developers and construction companies walked away, leaving areas that could not be taken in charge by the council and houses that were unreliable from a fire safety perspective to fall into degradation. After going into liquidation, such companies reopened under another name. It is not acceptable that these developers are off the hook while Irish families are paying the costs. Those responsible for the defective building work must be held accountable and stronger protections must be provided.  I looked at the amendment to the motion. It refers to a review, but a review has been done. This is not new. I urge that the review come into action.  I welcome the Minister of State's work on this issue. I hope that the Government will do that and help Deputy Charles Ward to fulfil his mandate to his constituents. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Healy-Rae  I sincerely thank Deputy Charles Ward for bringing forward this important motion. It is a reasonable motion. I acknowledge the work that has been done by people from the Government and the Opposition in securing the situation with IS 465:2026. Large sums of money have been put forward to help the affected families. I have spoken to many of them over the years. The one thing of paramount importance is the case-by-case study. In other words, I note that the motion brought forward calls for \"an explicit entitlement for homeowners to opt for full foundation replacement where reasonable doubt exists as to future performance\". That is reasonable. I have read the countermotion by Government. Of course, it states \"notwithstanding that there are no current cases of damage to foundations\" and then goes on to state the Government's position. If you look at this, it makes no sense whatsoever to not make allowances where foundations are deemed to be unsafe or unsure. It does not make sense to be giving people assistance to build a house on top of a foundation that might in the future weaken and not be of a proper standard. That is why this motion is reasonable.  I highlight at this stage that tonight I am facilitating a Minister by pairing with him to allow him to do his work but only for that fact, I would be supporting this motion. It is a reasonable motion but I am unable to vote because I am facilitating a Minister in his work.  I highlight the concern among people who find themselves in this awful situation. It is like leaving the handle go with the hatchet. The Government has recognised that this is a problem. Ignoring the fact that the foundations could also be a problem is inherently wrong. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  I, too, compliment Deputy Ward, an Teachta Ward, for bringing forward this motion and for all the work he has done since he was elected and before he was elected. I also compliment na daoine in the Gallery, including Councillors Denis McGee and Joy Beard. Indeed, I also compliment the staff of Deputy Ward and the people and families who are affected. How many more times must they make the major journey to Dublin, Baile \u00c1tha Cliath, with their plastic bags? They come with knobs of concrete and they are like sawdust. It is quite obvious.  The previous Government made efforts, but I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone could decide to have a redress scheme for the blocks, mortar and walls, and forget the foundations. I have some experience. I am a plant hire contractor in foundational work and site work and everything else. The foundation is the most important part of anything, including the foundation of the families. This is so distressing to the families who have had to put up with this for so long now. It is distressing that the foundations are not included.  It is just pure lunacy. We have standards and regulations, as we have in so many other areas in this country, but they are ignored. We have regulators for everything. They have fancy offices with a brass plate outside, a CEO and staff, but they do nothing. They are toothless, useless and fruitless in my opinion. There are many of them; we appointed another one last week. We appoint them every week and there are thousands of them now.  What about the families? It is a noble intention for any person to build their own house and have a house for their family. It is the noblest intention in the world. Now people are forced to replace their homes because of the incompetence and blackguarding of a big company, which has been fined hundreds of millions in Canada, America and all over the world. However, we will not fine it here; not at all. We will put a 5% levy on the ordinary man trying to build a house to pay for this, instead of making the company pay. Everybody knows which one it is. I would be nearly afraid to speak the name, even with privilege. It is CRH. There are different names on the lorries going in and out, but CRH owns the lot because it has a monopoly. It is disgraceful and despicable. I have attended its AGMs here in Dublin a few times, not to cover mica issues but to cover countless other issues where it got away with blatant corruption. This is a shocking case of big business in the pockets of the big parties. I was in a party for long enough and I know how it works. That is the holy all of it. The families are left thrown to the wind. We will have investigations, more reviews and a motion here. It is just pass the parcel. We need to think of the families sleeping in their houses in fear.  My daughter, Councillor M\u00e1ir\u00edn McGrath, was in Donegal. Her colleagues up there brought her around and showed her the houses. They showed her housing estates that were empty, gan aon duine ansin. They had to move out. If this happened in Ukraine, we would be talking about it. No doubt we will find hundreds of millions to rebuild Ukraine and there will not be a word about it. There will be no questions asked, no reviews, no tests of the concrete and no anything else, but our own people do not matter. We know that our own families do not matter to this Government. I am not putting this personally to the Minister of State, who I know is a hard-working Minister of State, as is the Minister, Deputy Browne. However, what is going on is just not acceptable. It is time to lay it nakedly out there and support the families who home themselves; they did not ask anybody to home them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I am glad to say a few words in support of Charles Ward's motion. He has raised it many times inside here since he was elected, as others have done. I cannot understand how this is taking so long to resolve. There has been quibbling about the foundation. It is only a day's work to put in a foundation. Often it is done much quicker than that if the concrete came - proper concrete - and it is organised on time. Something must have been lacking with Government regulations or if there was a regulator. Like all the regulators, maybe he did not want to be seen at all. For any regulator we are depending on, there is no account of him. He is either asleep or gone missing because all of the regulators we have are being paid for doing absolutely nothing.  Building a home is the biggest venture that a young couple will ever put themselves through given the cost and worry involved in getting it up. It is terrible for people to find their homes are falling asunder like they are. The faster this is remedied, the better. I welcome the people from Donegal to the House. I know they have plenty of other things to do. It is a priority for them to ensure that the people with defective homes in Donegal are sorted out. When Bridie Gallagher sang a song about the homes of Donegal, we never envisaged that this would be happening to the homes after she sang that song that so many people were glad to listen to.  The Minister of State should not put the people through having to come in here again. If it is down to the foundations and that is all that is at stake, just dig them out. It would not be a day's work to dig them out and order concrete and a few steel bars to build them up again. They will go off in a couple of days and people can start afresh. A house has to have good foundations when starting out. There is no point in taking chances and saving that amount of money. There is more time spent talking about them inside here and in that time a lot of them could be fixed. The people are worried. They have children and they are worried what will be the end of all this. Some of the houses have been done, but there are a lot more to be done. For God's sake, will the Government come out and sort it for once and for all? It is no bother for me to support the people of Donegal, but we should not be having to do this day after day. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy John Cummins)  I thank all Deputies for their contributions and for their genuine advocacy and work in this area. I recognise the real hurt and anger right across the country of homeowners who have been impacted by legacy defects as a result of defective concrete blocks. I want to put that on record.  As the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, and the Minister, Deputy Browne, have said previously, the Government is committed to assisting homeowners who have been impacted by defective concrete blocks. We have provided significant funding to the scheme and we will continue to do so. We have also kept the scheme under review and have made changes to it as and when required to try to assist more homeowners. The statutory obligation placed on Government by the 2022 Act, arising from the publication of the new IS 465:2026 standard, will now be actioned as soon as possible and a review of the Act will get under way shortly. Importantly, the very large number of homeowners who have already received a determination and grant amount can continue with their works.  The current enhanced defective concrete blocks grant scheme has been open for applications since 2023. The Government put it in place to assist homeowners to remediate damage caused by the use of defective concrete blocks. Notwithstanding that the current grant scheme contains improvements on the previous scheme, the Government has been mindful that the scheme requires monitoring and when changes are needed, they have been actioned. When it was recognised that construction inflation was presenting difficulties for homeowners, an increase in the grant scheme cap and rates was legislated for. This brought the overall scheme cap from \u20ac420,000 to a maximum of \u20ac462,000, along with an increase in the associated grant rates.  The Government is committed to funding all eligible expenditure under the scheme. Originally, the estimated cost was more than \u20ac2.2 billion, excluding inflation, with an estimated 7,500 households impacted. I note the comments from Deputies here as to the scale of the challenge ahead. A review is ongoing, with the local government sector, of the numbers and of the impact of the new standard IS 465:2026. Furthermore, the changes to the scheme that the standard might necessitate could add further cost to the scheme. Therefore, Deputies will appreciate that the approach now being taken by Government to review the Act is a logical one.  The publication of the revised IS 465 is the culmination of years of work in a complex and sensitive area that has real meaning and importance to thousands of households in many parts of Ireland. The Government is mindful of the very real concerns of affected homeowners who deserve the chance to be helped to fix their homes and to move on with their lives as much as possible.  As the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, has said, the Department, in partnership with the local authority sector and the Housing Agency, will update homeowners in the near future in as clear and comprehensive a way as possible regarding what this new standard might mean for them. From listening to the debate, it is clear that one of the primary focuses is to address the issue of foundations. While the focus on foundations is absolutely understandable, the Department's communication will address a wider suite of issues raised in the weeks since the publication of IS 465:2026.  Notwithstanding some of the genuinely articulated and personal cases that have been highlighted by Deputies, it is important to point out that the scheme is working for many. As of today, over 3,500 homeowners are at various stages of the grant scheme. Over 500 homes have been remediated, with another 750 at various stages of construction having notified the relevant designated authority of commencement. The Government realised at an early stage that homes affected by defective concrete blocks may not be limited to Donegal, Mayo, Clare and Limerick, and the 2022 Act provides a pathway for additional local authorities to seek designation under the grant scheme. Since 2023, Sligo and parts of the Fingal and Wexford County Council areas have been designated under the grant scheme.  As the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, pointed out earlier, parts of Meath County Council and Carlow County Council will shortly be designated under the grant scheme. I am sure this will be welcome news for householders in those areas that have homes impacted by defective concrete blocks.  At the end of 2025, the Minister, Deputy Browne, brought forward very important legislation, the Defective Concrete Blocks (Amendment) Act 2025. This Act contains numerous beneficial changes for homeowners in the grant scheme. The Minister operationalised the majority of this Act in February and June of this year. These regulations provided for additional funding to homeowners who were previously unable to avail of the uplift in the scheme cap and rates, which was a particularly important issue for many. Crucially, the regulations also provided for homeowners where either they or members of their family live in a home affected by defective concrete blocks that has been adapted for the needs of the resident living there.  The Minister is aware that since the publication of the new standard, homeowners either already in the grant scheme or intending to apply to the scheme will have questions on what the new standard means for them. I emphasise that homeowners already in the scheme and undertaking works can continue with those works. Grant payments will continue to be made by local authorities so homeowners can complete their works.  As some Members are aware, officials in my Department met members of the implementation steering group last week to provide an update regarding the scheme and the new standard, noting that the Department will issue guidance for local authorities and the Housing Agency on various categories of applicants to the scheme. At this meeting, members were brought up to speed on the review process and what it will entail. The group includes officials from the designated local authorities, the Housing Agency and the homeowner liaison officer, all of whom can assist homeowners with their queries. The Department met again yesterday with the group to focus on how best to keep homeowners informed of ongoing developments in a timely manner.  Allowing the review to be undertaken and completed will be key to the success of the grant scheme. The 2022 Act, as set down by the Oireachtas, clearly identified the need for this review. The review will focus, as per the provisions of section 51 of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022, on the operation of the Act, in the first instance, in all matters relating to the introduction of IS 465 and its interaction with the grant scheme will be considered as part of the review. On completion, the Minister will make recommendations to the Government on any proposed changes to the defective concrete blocks scheme. Ensuring homeowners are treated fairly under the grant scheme has and will continue to be the focus of the Government. The Minister is well aware of the urgency of the review. He and his officials are working hard to ensure it is prioritised in a timely fashion.  I will circle back to what I said at the outset. I totally understand and appreciate the impact defective concrete blocks have had on homeowners who have been impacted. Very real stories have been articulated by Members of this House. Of that, there is no doubt. I acknowledge everybody involved and their advocacy and work in this area. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  I commend Deputy Charles Ward on his diligent and relentless campaigning on behalf of the tens of thousands of people affected by defective blocks. He is one of those people personally affected, along with tens of thousands of others. I commend all of those who work with him in the 100% Redress party, and all of those who have been affected by this issue, on their campaigning and their refusal to take this lying down. I am very glad to support the motion.  In a way, I am also very glad that I do not have the expertise Deputy Charles Ward has. I have been trying to get educated by him on the issue. It is not something that has emerged in my constituency, at least so far, but I am aware of the consequences of the willingness by Fianna F\u00e1il in particular, but also Fine Gael, to allow developers and people in the construction industry not to be properly regulated or controlled and for that to have devastating consequences on homeowners and renters, in particular with fire safety issues. Many tens of thousands of people are affected by buildings that were not built properly and have fire safety issues, which imposed costs and hardships on them. Some of that stuff is not over. I recently came across a new social housing development where, within months of moving in, people have damp, mould and so on all over the place and are having to fight to have those things addressed. This stuff is still going on, so there is a lot at stake on these issues.  It is shocking that at least 20,000 householders are living in homes that are crumbling around their ears and which are now worthless. They worked hard for those homes and they are worthless. They cannot sell them. The Government seemed to be crowing about its redress scheme, but if I understand this correctly, the reason only slightly more than 3,000 people have applied for it is that the scheme is so inadequate, and the gap between the cost of remediating a home and what the Government is willing to give means that for huge numbers of people affected by this issue the scheme the Government is proposing is completely inadequate and will not allow them to remediate their homes. That means they are stuck in crumbling homes unable to deal with the consequences of something that was basically the responsibility of the Government and its failure to regulate cowboys - profit-driven, unscrupulous people - in the construction industry.  On top of that, where people may try to rebuild their homes with an inadequate scheme, the Government is forcing them to build on foundations that may crumble in the future. Where people know that the material that could lead to that crumbling - the defective substances or substance that lead to these defects - are there but we do not know what will happen in the future, rather than giving those people the option to fully replace the foundations, the Government is insisting they build on foundations that could crumble. Why would the Government do that? First, the people have gone through having their homes crumble around them and become worthless and they have to rebuild them. Then they are being made build on foundations that could crumble again in the future, causing them anxiety, concern and all the hardship that would involve, in addition to the cost of doing that.  It defies belief that the Government will not take on board what Deputy Ward is saying here, namely, that people should have the option to fully replace those foundations and, more generally, that the Government should be providing 100% redress from end to end to resolve this for all of those who have been affected by this terrible issue of defective concrete. The amendment the Government has put forward is extremely disappointing. It should withdraw it and take on board what Deputy Ward is very reasonably asking for to help the many tens of thousands of people affected by this scandal. There may be a lot more affected. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  I thank my colleagues who stood with me today and those who took the time to go beyond the briefing material and the political framing and had the empathy to understand what families are living through on the ground. Before we vote, I want to speak plainly, not in a language of schemes, standards or reassurance, but in a language that explains what is happening to people on the ground. I have sat in homes where families are in this crisis, and I have heard things that have never appeared in reports. People are lying awake at night wondering if their home is safe. Parents are trying to hide this fear from their children. Families are trying to hold ordinary life together while carrying on in an uncertainty that they did not create. This is the reality. There is no data and there are no summaries and no briefing. It is reality.  No homeowner or child caused this crisis, yet they are the ones that are carrying it. We are told the scheme is improving. We are told progress is being made, but uncertainty is still in people's homes. It is still at the kitchen table, and it is still in their lives. I ask the House one question. Who is carrying the uncertainty? It is not being carried in here.  It has been carried elsewhere by the families, by the children. People who stood should never have been asked to carry this burden at all. Never should this have happened.  I recognise that many Members will vote under party instruction, but this Chamber has also seen Members break that. I ask that safety and security, and the future of children and their families, be on Deputies' conscience when they are voting. They have to go back to their constituents when it is in their area, and tell them why they did not vote to help. I hope Deputies will realise in the years to come what has gone on and that we have a catastrophic situation on our hands. The responsibility for this cannot be ignored. The time is now. We have to address this. There is a choice before us, it is a responsibility we cannot keep avoiding: families or system. I am clear. The uncertainty does not belong in family homes. This belongs now to the State. It is the State that has a responsibility to carry this burden, not the families, the people who did nothing wrong or the children growing up underneath the shadow of the defective concrete. When the bell rings for the vote this evening, this House will decide something very simple: where the burden sits. That decision does not end with this vote; it begins there. I stand with the families, like all my colleagues in opposition today who have stood. I say to the homeowners that we are fighting for them night and day and we will not forget. I will not move the burden onto those who did not create it. I am asking this House to remember where the weight of this situation has occurred. The Government and the State have a responsibility. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time this evening. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"State Responsibility for Foundation Retention Risk in Defective Concrete Homes: Motion [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Message from Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Select Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage has completed its consideration of the Housing and Residential Tenancies (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026 and has made amendments thereto. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Message from Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":37,"speakerCount":7},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  An tseachtain seo caite, v\u00f3t\u00e1il Rialtas an Taoisigh leis an dl\u00ed a athr\u00fa chun praghsanna peitril agus d\u00edosail a ard\u00fa \u00f3n 1 L\u00fanasa. Mar gheall ar chinnt\u00ed an Rialtais, ard\u00f3idh praghas an d\u00edosail 32 cent agus praghas an pheitril 27 cent. N\u00ed f\u00e9idir leis an Rialtas lean\u00faint ar aghaidh leis na harduithe seo ar pheitreal agus ar dh\u00edosal. Caithfidh s\u00e9 a aithint go bhfuil bot\u00fan m\u00f3r d\u00e9anta aige agus r\u00e9iteach airgeadais a chur os comhair na D\u00e1la l\u00e1ithreach chun stop a chur leis na harduithe seo agus na praghsanna seo ag dul in airde an m\u00e9id sin \u00f3n 1 L\u00fanasa, rud a chuirfidh br\u00fa ar ghn\u00e1th-theaghlaigh fud fad na t\u00edre.  In the past year, soaring fuel prices have put huge pressure on ordinary households that are struggling to keep up. That pressure came to a head in April. After weeks of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael refusing to listen, ordinary people rose up in protest. They were forced to take action and they also forced the Taoiseach to take action to reduce the cost of petrol and diesel. They had to fight for what little relief they eventually got from the Government. Imagine their reaction last week when the Government voted to pass the Finance Bill, a law that will see the cost of petrol and diesel increase from 1 August. The Taoiseach voted against Sinn F\u00e9in's proposals and, as a result of his decision, diesel will go up 32 cent and petrol will go up 27 cent. What does that mean for ordinary folks out there? In just a matter of weeks, they will once again be hit with rip-off prices at the pumps, if the Taoiseach does not act now to stop it. Diesel will shoot up to over \u20ac2 and petrol will hit something similar. It is clear that the Government has not learned anything from the fuel protests or the pressure that ordinary people are under.  Did the Taoiseach not see the Barnardos report that was released just yesterday? It told us very clearly that more than half of parents are worried that they do not have enough money to put fuel in the car. Real people, real families, real pressure. Sinn F\u00e9in was the only party here last week that stood up to challenge the Government and stand against its decision. We proposed amendment after amendment to stop the fuel hikes because we understand those hikes are going to heap further pressure on ordinary families. The Government kept on going down the track it has set and it is going to make things even harder for families. It is going to increase the price of diesel by 32 cent and petrol by 27 cent. While the D\u00e1il is in recess and Ministers are off on their holidays, these price increases kick in. That is what the Taoiseach voted for last week in the Finance Bill. Unless he acts now, ordinary people are going to pay the price. We cannot have a repeat of what happened in April. It was only after those who keep Ireland moving rose up in protest that the Government was finally forced to act.  The Taoiseach needs to recognise the pressure that is increasing on people. It is not easing; it is increasing. The Government cannot go ahead with these petrol and diesel increases on the scale outlined. There is still time to change course. The Taoiseach needs to listen, and he needs to make it clear that this pressure will not be placed on families at the pumps in just a number of weeks. He needs to realise that he made a big, big mistake in voting against Sinn F\u00e9in's proposals last week. Will the Taoiseach urgently bring forward a financial resolution to stop these huge increases in petrol and diesel taking effect in just a number of weeks? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Is l\u00e9ir gur tharla ard\u00fa an-ard ar fad ar phraghsanna peitril agus d\u00edosail de dheasca an chogaidh san Iar\u00e1in. Bh\u00ed br\u00fa faoi leith ar mhuintir na t\u00edre agus ar an ngeilleagar agus t\u00e1 f\u00f3s. Rinne an Rialtas cinneadh faoi leith suas le \u20ac750 milli\u00fan a chur ar f\u00e1il chun an br\u00fa seo a laghd\u00fa do dhaoine. D'\u00e9irigh linn. Mar aon leis sin, rinneamar i bhfad n\u00edos m\u00f3, go h\u00e1irithe \u00f3 thaobh c\u00farsa\u00ed talmha\u00edochta, iascaireachta agus iompair de.  The Government reduced petrol excise and diesel by 32 cent and 27 cent. We did not increase it. Clearly, the Deputy is all about politics and not about policy. He played politics last week with this and he is playing politics this week with it. Sinn F\u00e9in cleverly put in a few amendments last week. They get voted down, and then the Deputy turns it around and says the Government is voting for increases. It is a game he is at. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  So much for legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The pressures on people have been very significant because of the increase in fuel prices arising out of the war in Iran between America and Iran. On the Hormuz strait, there has been a cessation of violence and war, but there has also been at least a resolution which has given some respite to the situation. We took significant measures to try to help people. I will come back to that in a moment. Brent crude, as a result of what has been happening in recent time, oil prices currently stand at around $75 per barrel. That is down from its peak closing price of $115 per barrel in early May, but still above prices of around $70 per barrel recorded before the war.  We have seen stability domestically in recent weeks, with steady declines in the prices for kerosene, auto fuels and marked gas oil. We are closely monitoring the international domestic fuel prices. This will inform our decision-making process. The latest Eurostat data shows that Ireland experienced one of the largest reductions in diesel prices across the European Union in May, reflecting easing international energy pressures and improved conditions in global markets. The recent increases as a result of the war are beginning to unwind. Irish diesel prices fell by 8.1% in May; I do not have June figures yet. That is the fourth-largest reduction in the European Union. Petrol prices in Ireland also declined by 2%, with Ireland among the countries seeing reductions when many others continue to experience increases. Wholesale energy prices fell significantly month on month following the sharp spike recorded in April.  In terms of the measures we took, we took 32 cent off diesel, 27 cent off petrol and 7.4% off MGO. We deferred the carbon tax increase to 14 October. Some \u20ac40 million per month was allocated to transport over three months and a \u20ac100 million fuel scheme for farmers, contractors and fishers was introduced. The diesel rebate increased to 12 cent per litre. We increased the fuel allowance to \u20ac38 per week and expanded eligibility, with about 470,000 households supported as a result of that. In the budget proper we did the core budgets. The Deputy seems to be making assumptions. The end of July is more than a month away. The Government will keep this under review. We have said this repeatedly. The Government will take a decision in respect of the diesel and petrol situation before the D\u00e1il recess. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I am assuming nothing. Last week I put forward an amendment that would see those increases not taking effect. The Taoiseach accused me of games. This is nothing to do with games. How dare you? When I give voice to the concerns of people right across the State about the Government putting up the price of petrol and diesel by 32 cent, which it voted for last week, that is not a game for them. When people tell me they do not have enough money in their pockets to pay for the bare necessities in this Ireland of 2026, that is not a game for them. I am doing my job when I stand up and represent the people right across the State who are put to the pin of their collar because of decisions the Government has made. The Finance Bill has passed the D\u00e1il. On 1 August, these prices will increase. I have asked the Taoiseach a clear question. The Government does not need more reports, reviews or anything bar getting its head out of the sand and recognising that putting up the price of diesel by 32 cent a number of weeks from now is reckless. It will put huge pressure on ordinary families. I asked the Taoiseach whether he will bring forward a financial resolution without delay or whether he will stick to his position, which is that these increases will go ahead. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, we did not, as the Deputy said, vote last week to increase anything. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  There was. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy Doherty just wants to look after the oil companies by giving them whatever. He does not even want to monitor what is going to happen over the next number of weeks. It makes sense that one watches the market - of course it does - otherwise one is just filling the pockets of the oil companies which will benefit from the decline. We are talking about taxpayers' money. As I said, we have some distance to go before the end of July. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  You think there was no vote last week. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I did not interrupt you. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  No, he did not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Okay. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Deputy put the amendments down last week so he could then make the allegation that we are increasing prices and try to engineer protests. That is what is going on. I have seen the Facebook pages. I have seen it all. The Government makes a decision, there are going to be protests. That is the game. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Does the Taoiseach think we should pat him on the back----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  No, no. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  -----when he pushes up the price of petrol? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Deputy is entitled to raise the issue, but that is----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Is that what he wants? Does he want a pat on the back for pushing up the prices? Not a chance. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----the political agenda. I did not interrupt the Deputy. He has an awful habit of doing it. That is his political agenda. The Government has not made a decision in respect of the end of July. Is that clear? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you. Time is up. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  You voted for it last week. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Government is going to keep it under review and act accordingly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Taoiseach, the time is up. Thank you very much. I now call on Deputy Holly Cairns. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  Someone dies from a drug overdose in Ireland almost every day. Drug deaths in this country are almost three times the EU average. The Taoiseach has a big decision to make. The Government can keep on doing what we all know is not working - criminalising people who struggle with addiction, failing to fund the services that could help them and cramming people into overcrowded prisons where drug use is endemic - or it can be radical and brave. It can opt to change its policy approach so that it is evidence-based and health-led. It can address the underlying causes of drug addiction. It can save lives.  That is what the cross-party report from the Committee on Drugs Use has recommended today. The decision was unanimous. Its key recommendations are that the possession of drugs for personal use be decriminalised and that we introduce a comprehensive health-led approach to the use and misuse of drugs. The committee did not pull these recommendations out of thin air. It listened to a wide variety of experts, community groups, people with lived experience of drug use and recovery and families affected by addiction.  The committee also heard comprehensive evidence about other parts of the world where this approach has worked, such as Portugal, which decriminalised drugs 25 years ago and has seen a significant reduction in drug-related deaths with no increase in drug use. The committee also heard about places where decriminalisation was introduced but not done properly, such as Oregon, where drugs were decriminalised but there was no increase in resources for treatment. What is clear is that decriminalisation must be accompanied by increased investment in health services. It will not work in isolation. That is key to the committee's recommendations.  Treatment options for drug use are threadbare. This is especially true in prisons, which are dangerously overcrowded. It is estimated that 70% of people entering prison have an addiction or substance abuse problem. That is about 4,000 people. How many addiction nurses are employed in Irish prisons? Zero. This is not a health-led approach; it is killing people. It is, quite frankly, inhumane.  The Oireachtas gave the members of the drugs committee a job. They have done that work and issued a unanimous report with cross-party support. The national drugs strategy will be finalised next month. If the recommendations of the committee are not included, it will have little credibility. Will the Taoiseach ignore the report or will he make a commitment today that its recommendations will be included? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I welcome the final report of the joint committee. I have not had an opportunity to read it in its entirety. Senator Mary Fitzpatrick, who is a member of the committee, made a presentation to the Fianna F\u00e1il Parliamentary Party last evening on the report's core recommendations. Fundamentally, over the past 20 years we have moved to a health-led approach in terms of drug addiction. It has not been a criminal response, in the main. Rather, it has been health-led, going back to the methadone clinics for heroin in an earlier era. The focus, generally speaking, has been a health-led one.  A significant number of cases present for treatment for problem drug use. In 2025, the figure was about 15,422, a 16% increase and a 73% increase in the annual number of cases entering treatment since the commencement of the current national drug strategy in 2017. Communities continue to experience harm because of drug use. In some areas, the level of harm in communities is acute. The increase in treatment numbers reflects increased investment. There has been a lot of investment. We can continue to increase the level of investment, but we also have to be rigorous. That is why the Oireachtas report is important. It is also important that investment sees a return. Cocaine was the most commonly treated main problem drug in 2025, accounting for 42% of all cases. There has been an increase in investment in treatment services as a result of that.  In terms of diversion, the Government had agreed to divert those found in possession of drugs for personal use to the health services, in line with the health-led approach. The Minister responsible for that has agreed that will commence on an administrative basis for the time being. Obviously, the Government will assess the Oireachtas report in terms of the broader issues, including the decriminalisation proposal. About \u20ac170 million was provided last year to the Department of Health and HSE for drugs services, an increase of about \u20ac54 million over the past seven or eight years. It is all about treating addiction and having more drug treatment services. We will continue to expand that side of the equation. There has been an increase in recurring funding and so on. Addiction treatment is extremely important and the education side is extremely important, as is the health-led approach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  The Taoiseach said the Government is taking a health-led approach to this issue. Respectfully, the Government is not taking a health-led approach. A citizens' assembly was established and issued its findings. A cross-party Oireachtas committee did the same. Both of them found that we need to change to a health-led approach. That includes decriminalisation among a range of other health-led approach methods.  From the Taoiseach's reply, I take it that he plans to continue with more of the same and he thinks we have a health-led approach. I really urge him to reconsider that. He highlighted that a lot of funding is going into different things. It costs a lot of money, too, to put people in prison. Crucially, the most important figure in all of this is the number of lives it is costing, which is equivalent to nearly one person every day in Ireland. It is hard to articulate the impact that has on those people's families and communities and on everything. The Taoiseach has an opportunity to do something that will save lives. I ask him again whether the recommendations in the report will be included in the drugs strategy next month. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Government accepts and has accepted that possession of illicit drugs for personal use is fundamentally a public health issue and not just a matter for the criminal justice system. That has been the position for quite some time. The Government will shortly introduce a health referral scheme for those found to be in possession of illicit drugs for personal use. The report has just been published. As is necessary, both the Department of Health and the Department of justice will examine it. There are some 160 recommendations in it. The mental health dimension will be examined as well. We are going to give it very serious consideration.  However, having been a Minister in the Department of Health and having experience of dealing with this issue, I can say the approach has been predominantly health-led but that does not guarantee that consumption goes down. It does not actually quite guarantee it. There are different experiences in different jurisdictions. We need to examine the report and keep working on this. There is more than just one recommendation; there are 160 recommendations and we have to implement them all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  When IS 465:2026 was introduced, I welcomed the intent behind it but had reservations about how it might be interpreted by engineers. Reading several reports tells me I was correct. I reference one report where a house was given a group 4 classification, indicating the worst possible level of structural damage, with widespread deterioration and a clear finding of evidence of chemical damage. There is evidence of sulphate attack gypsum replacing binder secondary eclogite formation, mobile sulphates within the concrete system and full carbonisation of the concrete metrics. This describes concrete systems that undergo significant internal change and ongoing failure. Yet, despite this, the home in question is excluded from remediation. The conclusion drawn was that the sulphates are likely externally sourced and not linked to defective blocks.  This is where the core issue is now arising, with decisions driven by a heavily focused but narrowly presented one-day snapshot of sulphate content. The most recent research, by Leemann, M\u00fcnch and Dunlop in 2026, demonstrates that internal sulphate attack, ISA, can occur even where sulphate content is low because the sulphates have consumed, transformed, distributed and leached over time. The damaging chemistry does not remain static. It evolves, which means a low sulphate reading today does not mean sulphate-driven damage was never present. It may simply mean the reaction has already run its course and the sulphates have been used up. It is like arriving at a house that has been burnt out. Flames may no longer be seen and there may be little smoke remaining but the damage to the structure is still there. It cannot be concluded that there was no fire simply because the active stage has passed. There was a fire once upon time.  This raises deeper concerns. Should decisions under IS 465 rest mainly with engineering interpretations and threshold readings or should they be grounded in a full materials science analysis of how these chemical systems evolve? There is a risk that homes are being judged on what chemical traces remain rather than the scientific reality of how the damage actually developed. Will the Taoiseach ensure that interpretation of sulphate-related damage under IS 465 is led by independent materials science expertise in order that evolved internal chemical deterioration is properly recognised, rather than leaving decisions to be based primarily on scheme engineers' assessments of present-day sulphate readings? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. Clearly, the defective concrete blocks issue has evolved. It is a very complex issue, which the Government is addressing in the first instance by agreeing and allocating very significant amounts of funds to the affected homeowners to enable families to rebuild their homes and get on with their lives. I believe in a multidisciplinary approach to issues. The Deputy's basic query is whether IS 465 should be led by independent materials science expertise or by engineering. I think perhaps it should be both. There always have to be inputs.  The grant scheme is underpinned by the national testing standard. We have agencies, including the National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, and so on to determine the standards. IS 465 was revised on 2 June and that revision now needs to be examined in more detail. The Government remains committed to following the science when it comes to homes affected by defective concrete blocks, as per the provisions of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022. The Minister for housing intends to carry out a review of the operation of the Act as quickly as possible. That is provided for under the legislation. The issue of how damage interpretation is dealt with under the revised national standard will be addressed as part of that review.  In the meantime, the scheme can continue to operate to fix homes for the many homeowners who have already received a determination and a grant amount under the former standard. Since the Government commitment of 2020, more than 3,500 homeowners have been progressing through the defective concrete blocks grant scheme, with grants covering 100% of eligible costs up to \u20ac462,000 per household. That is a 10% increase since 2023. Over \u20ac336 million has been spent to date, which shows the scheme is really ramping up, with a record \u20ac175 million allocated this year. More than 500 homes have been completed, with 750 currently undergoing remediation. Approximately 80% of the affected homes are in Donegal. This is a significant scheme by any yardstick. I do not think it has any precedent in terms of its scale.  The issue the Deputy raised is a technical issue, albeit a significant one, arising from recent changes to the national standard governing the scheme. The changes have to be assessed and a review process is required under the legislation. IS 465 is the national standard currently used to assess damage caused by mica or pyrite in affected homes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  The reason I raised this issue is that right now, as we speak, there will be people going in with foundations with levels of ISA in them. They will potentially be building on top of a foundation that may fail in the future. I am talking about being fiscally responsible. As the revised IS 465 has been published, there is now a trigger. Can the Taoiseach give me dates for this? I do not want people to be building on top of foundations that contain an ISA and then, in a year or two years' time, the foundations on which their brand-new home is built are tested and shown to be damaged. It is about fiscal responsibility and doing things right. Is it possible to get some kind of timeframe for when this will happen? As the Taoiseach said, there are homeowners progressing through the scheme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  For what is the Deputy seeking a timeframe? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Charles Ward  I am asking for a timeframe for when this decision will be implemented. The trigger is off now with the revision of IS 465. When will the Minister for housing review and adapt to these changes? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The revision to IS 465 was made on 2 June. Under section 51 of the Act, the Minister must review the scheme following that revision. The review will examine several aspects of the scheme, including treatment of foundations. Findings must be reported to the Oireachtas within three months of completion. That is the timeline. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  Is the Taoiseach aware that parents of children with additional needs are now facing the prospect of being unable to access early years childcare services because of the Government's failure to support the childcare sector? In 2021, the Government made two clear promises, namely, that childcare costs would be reduced to \u20ac200 per month and that providers would be supported through a new core funding model. The reality is that it has failed on both counts. Childcare providers honoured their side of the agreement. When core funding was introduced, they accepted fee freezes because they believed the Government would work with them to address the mounting pressures facing the sector.  Instead, providers were left carrying rising costs, increasing regulation, staff shortages and growing financial burdens while Government Ministers sat on their hands. Today, we are witnessing the consequences. Children with additional needs are at risk of losing access to vital services. Parents who rely on childcare to remain in employment are facing impossible choices. Many will have to reduce their hours, take unpaid leave or in some cases leave the workforce entirely to care for their children. That comes at a huge personal cost to families and significant economic cost to the State.  This crisis did not appear overnight. It is a direct result of Government inaction. Every week another childcare provider closes its doors. Since 2021, 137 cr\u00e8ches have closed in the Taoiseach's county alone. Nationally, 977 early years childcare services have shut down in that time. That represents childcare places for between 32,000 and 35,000 children disappearing from communities across the country. At the same time, approximately 40,000 children are now on waiting lists, with rural Ireland being hit hardest. Families in towns and villages are finding that there are no places available. Yet, when challenged on these figures, the Government points to the opening of 579 new services since 2021. What the Government fails to tell the people is that these are predominantly after-school services and do little or nothing to address the collapse in early years provision.  Once again, we see the Government massaging figures to suit a political narrative rather than confronting the reality facing families. The most vulnerable children in our society need support, their parents need support and childcare providers need support. Instead, they have been ignored. The solution is neither complicated nor unreasonable. Providers are calling on the Government to reverse the funding freezes and introduce a sustainable funding model that reflects the real cost of delivering childcare. They are asking to be treated as partners rather than an afterthought, but that respect has never come. Instead, it is the same old story. The men and women who get up early every morning to go to work, pay their taxes and try to provide for their families continue to be squeezed from every direction. Childcare providers are being choked by costs and parents are being left without options. This sector is on the brink. The warning signs have been there for years. How many more closures, how many more waiting lists and how many more families must be pushed to breaking point before the Government finally acts? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We need a sense of balance and perspective here. The Deputy's assessment is way off the mark, in terms of painting a picture of where childcare is today compared with where it was even five years ago. We have delivered more progress on childcare in five years than in the previous 30 years. Costs are down by 36%, investment is at a record high and now, for the first time in the State's history, we are beginning to directly build childcare facilities. New measures announced this month will reduce fees further from September 2026. Childcare will be a central priority in budget 2027. We will really focus on it. I know that the Minister, Deputy Norma Foley, has significant proposals which will be part of the budget preparations and negotiations. We are very conscious of the essential role that childcare plays, first of all, in the development of the child. We always have to keep the child centre stage in respect of childcare provision and child development, and then in terms of parents and to facilitate people to access the workplace.  Core funding participation is at its highest level since the scheme began, despite what the Deputy has said. As of today, over 4,590 services have signed up for the 2025-26 programme, making this the largest number of partner services in core funding since the launch. Some 177 services left core funding at some point over the lifetime of the scheme and currently operate outside of it. A total of 415 services left at some point but later rejoined and are now participating in year 4. Over 70% of services that had exited have returned. This demonstrates the scheme's underlying strength and stability. More than 92% of eligible providers remained engaged across the first three years of core funding, showing sustained sector-wide participation. We increased core funding again this year to about \u20ac480 million. That is an increase of \u20ac90 million on the current year.  We are just 16 months into a five-year term for this Government. We are focusing on reducing the fees and core funding is a mechanism for doing that. We have made significant progress in relation to that. For a typical full-day place, the maximum fee drops from approximately \u20ac280 to \u20ac183 per week, after the universal national childcare subsidy scheme. This is a saving of over \u20ac600 per family since we froze price levels in 2022. We are also increasing income thresholds from September. About 25% of children in the national childcare scheme are now already paying under \u20ac200 per month. We will make continued progress on increasing the number who will be paying \u20ac200 or less and we will make a significant move on that in the forthcoming budget. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  My assessment is not way off the mark. I have sat down with early childcare providers and they are telling me this. They are the people who are on the ground. They know the crisis that is there. This is no longer a crisis but an implosion that is unfolding before the Government's eyes. The truth is that the Government has allowed the sector to drift from crisis into collapse. It is jeopardising the future of thousands of children, particularly those with additional needs, who depend on these services. What makes this even more astonishing is that after years of rising costs, soaring inflation and relentless financial pressure, the Government's response was to increase the base core funding rate by just 9 cent per child per hour. In what world does a 9 cent increase even begin to address inflation, wage pressures, insurance costs, energy bills and the wider cost-of-living crisis? It is completely detached from the reality facing providers on the ground. For once, stop kicking this issue down the road. Stop hiding behind future budgets and long-term reviews. The sector needs action now and not another promise, not another consultation and not another excuse. If the Government does not act urgently, the damage being done to children, families and childcare providers will be felt for years to come. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Budget 2026 invested almost \u20ac1.5 billion in early learning and childcare, which is a 12% increase. Going back a decade, that figure was \u20ac260 million. Numbers speak for themselves in terms of the funding. A total of 277,000 children will benefit from the national childcare scheme in 2026. That is 27,000 more than last year. That is not collapse; it is expansion. Childcare prices have fallen by 36% since October 2022, with fees held at 2021 levels while the rest of the cost of living has risen. Some 105,000 children accessed two free preschool years under ECCE.  The access and inclusion model supports a record 8,400 children with special needs or disabilities. That figure is up from 7,900. A total of 806 services receive equal start targeted supports, reaching 38,000 vulnerable children. For the first time in the history of the State, the Government is directly building and acquiring childcare facilities. Up to eight facilities will be delivered in 2026. That is not collapse; that is expansion. Yes, there are challenges. We will do more again in the forthcoming budget to copper-fasten, consolidate and expand services and reduce the price that people have to pay for childcare. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gillian Toole","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gillian Toole","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gillian Toole  I hope I have the correct question because I submitted two. There are four issues that are separate and significant but share a common thread. Last November in Kells, County Meath, there was an important Samhain festival and food symposium. It was an excellent symposium attended by Darina Allen, where a lot of topics around food security, food safety, biosecurity, health and soil health were discussed, including the school meals programme, the possibility of sourcing these meals as locally as possible and integrating local suppliers, chefs, shops such as SuperValu and Centra, etc. There were excellent books on the issues of ultra-processed food and the production of food. All of that was linked in to chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease and diabetes, which are on the increase. That is the first issue.  The second issue concerns a family of seven brothers - seven sons and three generations of succession farming in action. They are all tillage farmers and acknowledge the excellent support of the tillage support payment that was made. However, grain from 2025 is still in storage and we have imports from other markets with genetically modified components to them.  The third issue is a land-use plan, which we are still waiting on, and the implications for renewable fuel and solar production. The tillage farmers are having difficulty accessing land to lease or purchase to produce the native grains and legumes that we require.  We know we have the cost-of-living crisis and the issues around the cost of fuel. They are all linked. There is then the point of defending ourselves and biosecurity and the food that we eat, whether it is imported or we produce it ourselves. With the balance of land availability to produce the food we need but also to produce renewable energy, we have possibly a defence situation.  My condensed question stems from Canadian Prime Minister Carney's presentation last week at Trinity College. It is something he also said, I think, at the World Economic Forum, and that is the question about sovereignty. There is much debate and discourse on social media and in the media on the interpretation of sovereignty vis-\u00e0-vis borders, migration etc. However, I am going to link sovereignty to our ability to feed ourselves, fuel ourselves and defend ourselves along the lines of the remarks from the Prime Minister of Canada. What specific steps are being taken to ensure we can feed, fuel and defend ourselves? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank Deputy Toole for her thought-provoking question and the ideas that emanate from it in terms of looking at security through a much broader lens than tends to be the case where people look at it more conventionally as military or defence capability. Food security, in my view, is a fundamental part of both economics and a nation's security and it goes to the very heart of sovereignty.  Ireland, in respect of food security, has to be looking at a European context, given our membership of the EU, but also because we export to about 180 countries. It is an extraordinary story. It is about \u20ac21 billion in exports. A lot of that is in dairy, beef, lamb, poultry, pig meat and so on and the added value products deriving from those.  There is more work we can do on the horticultural front because we import a lot as well on the vegetable side and fruit side. The Government is always open to it. We have supported horticulture and continue to do so. Over the past number of years there has been a strong investment in organic farming, in particular over the past five years. I think there has been a step-change in our approach and attitude to organic farming both within the Department of agriculture and culturally within the agricultural community. That has continued to grow.  I have received correspondence from Darina Allen in respect of the issues Deputy Toole has raised. They are pertinent. We do need to make sure we create the environment to facilitate the continued growth of healthy foods because there is a connection to cardiovascular health and health more generally in terms of fresh sourced food. That is something we will continue to work on.  The land use study will be published shortly. That will create its own debate. We will publish it and invite society generally to reflect on it. Obviously, various stakeholders will come back in respect of that.  Deputy Toole mentioned the family with the seven sons who are all tillage farmers and the access to land issue. It is an issue for tillage because they can be at a disadvantage to others who might have greater access to resources and land access is a significant issue.  Climate change is the other big factor here. Climate is going to dramatically impact food production. We can see it through drought or excessive rain and floods. We saw it all across Europe and the world in the past number of years and it is happening here too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gillian Toole","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gillian Toole  I welcome those tentative updates. Could we firm up timelines for the publication of the land use study and particularly the timelines for the issuing of solar farm guidelines? Land use in general is particularly important because a lot of local authorities are currently preparing county development plans or variations on county development plans. If we are to really have a macro-consideration of all the elements of sovereignty and of security - yes, we are part of the greater Union - we have to begin from our home standpoint. There is great value to be achieved in transportation costs, with a shorter route from farm to fork, and in terms of the reduction in additives to food if it is produced as close as possible to home. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  When I mentioned Europe, I meant Ireland will be feeding a lot of Europe. That is my point. We are. In fact, I was reading Ronan McGreevy's work on Se\u00e1n Lemass recently. During the war a lot of our foodstuffs went to Britain. That is an aspect of war and security that rarely gets documented or referenced but it was a significant contribution in its own way. Even globally, the work we do in Africa, particularly in terms of climate resilience advice and product and so on in terms of crops is quite strong because of our experience of famine. The point I am making trying to make is that we have a global role in terms of food security and we should maintain our own production capacity as a result of that.  Regarding the solar farm guidelines, there are many guidelines falling due. Solar is growing very fast. It is now the third fuel. When we look at all the debate we have about war in Iran and fossil fuel volatility, we need a broader debate in the House on the balance here----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----because we need more renewables so we are not subject and exposed to volatility on fuel prices into the future, which derails our economy very quickly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you. You will have to talk to the Chief Whip about that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Sorry? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  You said we need a debate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I will ask her on the Order of Business. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation","counts":{"speechCount":75,"speakerCount":21},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Brennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Women's Aid has recorded the highest level of domestic abuse disclosures in history. The organisation's annual report is a stark reminder for us all that, for many women and children, escaping domestic abuse is made harder by failures that are within the Government's power to fix. Victims are trapped by the housing crisis, delays in the family court, inadequate access to civil legal aid and a family justice system that often fails to recognise the realities of domestic abuse and coercive control.  For many women, leaving an abusive partner does not mean the abuse ends. Ensuring safety after leaving an abusive partner requires the enforcement of protection orders and ensuring a consistent approach, particularly around bail conditions when they are breached, is implemented. For example, the Government commissioned a review of bail laws that recommended that breaches of domestic violence court orders be made an offence under the Bail Act. I am going to ask the Taoiseach something, in particular in light of this report. There is a simple fix. Will the Taoiseach implement this simple but important proposal that came from the Government's own commissioned review? It could mean a lot for so many people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  This is a societal issue. Blaming Government for what is going on alone is not a sufficient response. The impact report is quite shocking. It reported 62,275 disclosures of domestic abuse. That is an increase of 33%, including 4,755 involving children. This is a shameful and shocking indictment on Irish society.  We need, and there has been, a significant criminal justice response. The Minister for justice has progressed Jennie's law and Valerie's law, the first of which relates to a domestic violence register and the second removes guardianship rights of those convicted of killing partners. We have the national strategy. We are now heading towards a fourth strategy and I invite submissions from the House and different parties in respect of this issue. We have the O'Malley report in terms of the journey of a victim through our courts system and a lot of that has been implemented. Cuan was established, probably the most significant development in the past number of years, which is a national agency to try to pull things together. There is more investment in refuge. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  What about my question? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  It is going to need more than that, I think. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Thank you, Taoiseach. I call Deputy Jen Cummins. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We need to stand back, read the report and reflect on it. We will follow up on that proposal. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I thank the Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  I also want to raise the Women's Aid annual report for this year. It shows a 33% increase in domestic violence disclosures and a significant proportion of those - almost 5,000 - are children. A long time ago I worked in the UK with a domestic violence project. What I see is that it is just getting worse. I do not want to play politics with this.  Every single person in this House has a responsibility to work together to make sure we increase the supports to women and increase the punishment for the people who are perpetrating these crimes.  We were delighted, as Social Democrats, that Senator Patricia Stephenson's Bill went forward to support women and people who are escaping domestic violence. I refer to the free travel scheme. We were thankful to the Government for supporting that. We need to work together. This is an epidemic of massive proportions, not just in Ireland but throughout the world. However, we are responsible for here. I really want us to work together. Will the Taoiseach work with us? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Absolutely. I agree 100% with the Deputy. We do need to work together on this. There are many factors here that we have to address. The Minister for justice, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, has been very proactive in terms of quite a range of legislative measures that he has introduced. I referenced Jennie's law and Valerie's law. The fourth strategy on domestic and gender-based violence is perhaps one we can structure an all-party approach to and input into as well. My understanding is that by the end of the year, we should have about 94 safe homes and about 193 refuge units, with 50 also under construction. There is a multifaceted response required here. It is a very shocking situation. We have to stand back and see how we can input further on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  I welcome the report today from the Oireachtas committee, which has recommended decriminalisation of possession of drugs for personal use. I commend the work of the committee's members, including our Labour Party Deputy Marie Sherlock. This follows from the recommendations of the justice committee some years ago. I was a member of that committee, which also recommended decriminalisation and took, in particular, the Portuguese approach as a model. This is long-standing Labour Party policy led by our now MEP, Aodh\u00e1n \u00d3 R\u00edord\u00e1in, who as a Minister of State some years ago, brought in facilities for injecting centres, which we have now seen put in place.  The evidence from around the world is increasingly clear. Prison is no place to treat the sick and criminalising addiction has not worked. The war on drugs has not worked. Addiction is a public health issue, not a criminal justice issue. The Labour Party brought forward a motion on decriminalisation of drug users in 2025 and the Government told us then to wait for the report. It has been launched today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The question, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  Have we a timeline for implementation of the recommendations of this report? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Government will have to examine it. There are 160 recommendations. We will examine them. Much of the thrust of that report in terms of the health diversion programme, which will be introduced by the Department, is in that direction in any event. The de facto reality on the ground is that we are implementing a health-led approach. We have been adopting a health-led approach for the past 20 years, fundamentally. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  Not in the courts. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We more or less have in reality. That is the situation but we will examine the report. There are 160 recommendations. I welcome the fact that the committee has unanimously agreed those recommendations and we will certainly examine them. Senator Mary Fitzpatrick, as I said, presented to us last evening very briefly on it and we will come back again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Workers at Castolin Eutectic have been out on strike for three days now. They are due to go on strike again next week for five days. This is about eight workers being made redundant. The company agreed to go to the Labour Court but has since refused to implement the Labour Court's recommendation of 1.5 weeks per year of service on top of statutory redundancy. The cost of this to the company is minimal. It will be \u20ac30,000 or so. This is a company generating over \u20ac300 million annually in sales. It is owned by a venture capitalist company, Paragon Partners, which manages about \u20ac2.4 billion. Does the Taoiseach agree that this very wealthy company should at the very least abide by the recommendation of the Labour Court and pay the workers a half-decent redundancy? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. I do not have the specifics of the Labour Court recommendation but where people participate in and engage with the Labour Court, or the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, acceptance and implementation of awards should follow that engagement and participation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  Each week, thousands of mothers face the worry of not knowing when court-ordered child maintenance payments are going to arrive, or if they will arrive at all. Their ex-partners can drive their flashy cars, go on loads of holidays, sometimes gamble the money away and often live extravagant lifestyles while the women are forced to take out multiple loans just to pay the mortgage, buy food and pay for fuel. This deliberate non-compliance is basically a malicious form of coercive control and financial abuse but the courts system tends to largely ignore it, especially if you are broke. It is great that the Government has brought in some social welfare updates to help people but we also need real enforcement to tackle the shysters abusing their children in this way, such as automatic deductions at source tied directly to personal public service numbers, PPSNs, Revenue refunds and even assessing inheritance payments, because people get big payouts and no one knows about them. When is the Taoiseach going to bring in the tough enforcement legislation that is needed to make sure people pay up? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank the Deputy for raising what is a very important issue. In many instances, he has accurately reflected the experiences of people out there around the volatility or unreliability of child maintenance payments being delivered on and paid. I will talk to the Minister for justice and others in the Department of Social Protection to see what we can do, particularly on automatic deduction at source. These are proposals that have been around for quite some time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eamon Scanlon  The Taoiseach will be aware of the devastating situation now facing two major festivals in the north west following the collapse of Tickets.ie over the June bank holiday weekend. The Rory Gallagher International Festival in Ballyshannon is owed \u20ac283,000 and the Cowboys and Heroes festival in Leitrim is owed \u20ac130,000 in revenue that rightly belongs to them. These festivals are not just annual events. They are significant cultural and economic drivers for communities in Donegal and Leitrim and attract thousands of visitors every year. Organisers are determined to pay their suppliers but without intervention they will be left with crippling debt and may struggle to survive to 2027. What is urgently needed is Government assistance to ensure the revenue can be recovered. Beyond that, we need robust legislation to compel ticketing agents to ring-fence client funds so this kind of collapse can never happen again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The question, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eamon Scanlon  What support can we give these people? Legislation should be introduced to make safe clients' funds, as is the case with solicitors and estate agents. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank Deputy Scanlon for raising this issue. They are both very significant festivals - the Rory Gallagher one in particular. Even in Cork, I have always admired the Donegal capture of Rory Gallagher in terms of its wonderful festival. In a serious vein, this is a serious issue for them. It is----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eamon Scanlon  It is \u20ac283,000. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----\u20ac283,000. That is huge. There is need for a legislative response but I also think we have to work to see if we can help those festivals in the short term. I understand the Minister, Deputy Burke, has been examining this but I will talk to my colleagues to see what assistance we can provide or what we can do here because these are important festivals in those localities. I will revert to the Deputy on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Brennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Brennan  I am looking for an update in relation to the Taoiseach's plans on dealing with inheritance tax in the upcoming budget. It is believed that approximately 1 million people in Ireland do not have children. That is for many reasons - maybe life choice, medical or simply their personal choice. Under the current inheritance tax threshold, if a parent leaves a property or investment, there is a threshold of \u20ac400,000 but if an aunt or uncle leaves their property or investment to their niece or nephew, their threshold is 10% of this amount. This is simply unfair and is actually discriminating against people who do not have children. Since the boom in 2007, there has been no change to the threshold despite property prices increasing by 25%. As society changes and property prices increase, and as people have already paid their taxes to build their homes and invest, can we look at a fairer and more equitable scheme to address these fundamental issues? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am very conscious of the issue, particularly in regard to those without children who have worked hard all their lives and want to leave an inheritance to nieces, nephews or family members. The Government, in the last budget, increased the thresholds by about 20% across the different categories. We will examine this again in the context of the budget to see what we can do, particularly on that issue of those without children who want to leave an inheritance. The costs are significant as well.  We also have an income tax package to frame. There are many demands on the budget, both on the tax side and the public expenditure side, which the Government, over the next while, has to try to reconcile. Various TDs and Senators from different political parties, including the parties that make up the Government, have also brought forward ideas and solutions on tax, including this one. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Members of the F\u00f3rsa trade union working at the Oberstown Children Detention Campus will commence industrial action, including work to rule, tomorrow, 25 June, on the basis of issues with staffing and safety and capacity concerns. We have all heard about them. Reports of assaults are in the public domain. I have spoken to a number of people who work in Oberstown. What is the Government's response going to be? We need this place of detention to be safe for those who work in it and, obviously, for the children who are detained there.  I will quickly deal with legal fees and associated claims for State claims payments for the last three years. In 2023, the figure was \u20ac854,645; in 2024, it was \u20ac826,541; and last year, it was \u20ac861,807. Obviously, there is a particular issue here. It needs to be dealt with and we need a Government response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Oberstown is the State's only dedicated detention facility for children, providing care, education, health and rehabilitation supports. Children with complex needs are often referred to Oberstown by the courts. There is always a very difficult balance between safety and care. The latest available information shows that 129 children were detained in Oberstown in 2023, 120 in 2024 and 119 in 2025. I pay tribute to all those who are working there because HIQA found strong provision in Oberstown in education, health and aftercare planning. The Council of Europe committee for the prevention of torture, CPT, report in 2024 showed that young people spoke positively about staff and their approach. I hope this matter can be resolved through the industrial relations machinery. Work is perhaps under way to resolve it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  In the base of the redress scheme and the different grades that people get in redress, there is an issue turning up at the moment----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Which redress scheme? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  The scheme for pyrite. There are different grades. People might get grade 1 or grade 4 or 5. One of the grades is where people are told their roof is okay but their block walls have to come out. What people are being asked to do is prop up the house and take out the walls down to the foundation level, which means the footpaths and floors collapse. It is specialised work. When we work out the economics of it, we do not have enough specialist contractors in this country to do this. There are not enough of them here and those who are here are trying to build houses. There is a cost to doing this and it also means people will be out of their houses longer. The realistic thing to do is demolish and rebuild the house. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We have spent about \u20ac317 million on the mica scheme alone. Increasingly now, we are working through a specialist, standard-based approach. We have agencies. I am not going to argue to and fro on the specifics. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  It is common sense. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Yes, but D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann cannot----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  We have experience. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Do not----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We have legislation----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  We have 35 years' experience. Come on. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  That is enough, Deputy. Allow the Taoiseach to answer. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am not going to arbitrate in terms of professional advice and expertise on how to operate various schemes. Everybody is coming in now with solutions to every single issue from a technical point of view. We have established agencies to deal with standards, technical aspects and the remediation of the homes. This is a legislative assembly, not the national building standards agency. The agencies have work to do and we have to resource and improve them. We have appealed for common sense in terms of how people deal with issues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  This week, people around the country will be enjoying the good weather that is currently forecast. However, hot temperatures can be a real challenge for some in our communities, such as the elderly, the very young and people with underlying conditions. Once again, we are seeing record-breaking temperatures around Europe, with red alerts being issued in many countries and temperatures of over 40\u00b0C expected. Sustained heat in summer is here to stay. Over the last year, I have been seeking information from the Department of Health and the HSE on how Ireland records the impact of heatwaves on vulnerable populations. The HSE has admitted that heat-related deaths are simply not recorded and the Minister has acknowledged that more needs to be done to improve recording in this area. If we do not measure a problem, we cannot bring forward a real solution to it. Will the Taoiseach commit that the Government will bring forward clear measurements about how heatwaves are impacting vulnerable communities, particularly in the area of mortality? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  An evidence-based approach is always to be recommended, and we should measure. People should begin to measure the impact of severe heat. We have not had too many heatwaves. That is the sense anyway. People are amazed this week by the heat. It is a serious matter. We are looking at 40\u00b0C across the water tomorrow. That is very serious from a health and climate point of view. We need to start adjusting because climate change is here. We also need to start changing our systems to meet that reality. From a health and public health perspective, ordinarily the focus is on the cancer front and using sunscreen and so on, but there is a very real health issue in terms of such high temperatures - dehydration and so on. Therefore, it does demand and command a response. Maybe I will talk to the Health Research Board and ask it to do some research on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  Two cases in my constituency concerning farming families have been dealt with in the course of the business of this House and the committees. Dan Brennan is one of them. It was agreed that an expert, Dr. Se\u00e1n Brady, would be appointed to provide the Department with a report. Dan Brennan is an excellent farmer. He has been waiting for the outcome of this since 1990. I have been told, through a response to a parliamentary question, that the Department cannot say when it will be concluded.  The second case relates to a family and serious health concerns affecting horses. Again, the Department of Health has been on site. However, a report that was issued in 2016 dropped off significant recommendations and findings that did not come to light until 2024. The Minister will not meet this family who have written to the Taoiseach about the matter.  Will the Taoiseach intervene in those two cases and ensure the rights of those two farming families are acknowledged and vindicated? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I presume we are talking about the Department of agriculture. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am not familiar with the first case but it seems extraordinary that a report would have been started in 1990 and it is now 2026, so that is 36 years that a report has not been published. I will check that and get a response from the Department of agriculture as quickly as I can.  On the second case, I will check in terms of correspondence. It is not ringing a bell right now. It may have, but we have a lot of emails and so forth. The Deputy said a report issued in 2016 but that certain recommendations, if I heard him correctly, were dropped off or not included in that report. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John McGuinness  A number of them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Deputy can follow up in correspondence. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I want to get the information so people can check this. I will obviously have to check the provenance of the correspondence and try to get a response. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Deputy can have further engagement. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Donnelly  I met with the parents of Grace Lynch. I commend them on their advocacy on road safety and tackling scramblers and illegal e-bikes and scooters. On Monday, hundreds of residents in Hartstown marched around Hartstown Park to highlight the issue of antisocial behaviour, scramblers and illegal e-bikes in the parks. People are saying there are a couple of things that can be done. The first is a change in legislation to allow garda\u00ed to actively pursue those on scramblers. The second is that resources be given to the Garda to establish a specialised anti-scrambler unit. I have called for this on many occasions. These units are in place in Britain, France and all over Europe. They are specially trained, specially resourced and equipped to deal proactively with people who are using illegal scramblers on the roads. They are a danger to themselves and other people on our roads. We know what the issue is at the moment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I have also met Grace's parents, who have been through a very traumatic and harrowing experience but have also articulated how communities are impacted by scrambling. The legislation is very clear. Scramblers cannot be on the public roads and there are significant additional powers there. There was a recent case in the courts involving a garda. My understanding is that the Minister is going to bring further legislation to amend that to make sure garda\u00ed will not suffer any negative repercussions from pursuing scramblers in the interests of public safety. On having an anti-scrambler unit, that is an operational decision for the Commissioner. However, I understand well over 1,000 scramblers have been seized. We want more activity. The Commissioner is adamant that he is going to focus very strongly on this issue. I will continue to engage with the Deputy on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  While I warmly welcome the announcement of the public consultation on the future of the GPO, I express my deep disappointment in the plans for the meanwhile use. There are 4,000 sq. m of enormous potential in the heart of Dublin, yet we are hearing it is going to be allocated to office space, with some vague notion of cultural and community space. We know there is a very sizeable office vacancy rate in Dublin. The OPW has also had empty office space for a considerable period. We know there is a massive shortage of artists' space in Dublin. I would love the OPW to show real ambition for the meanwhile use of the GPO space. The State's plans for an artists' campus in Dublin Port have been put on hold and we know there is a big gap in Dublin with regard to artists' space. I ask the Taoiseach to ensure the OPW shows greater ambition for meanwhile use of the GPO, so that it becomes a proper living and thriving institution for the next few years while we understand what its future use will be. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The steering group has been established under the chairmanship of my office and officials from my office will co-ordinate across all Departments. The cultural and artistic dimension will be the strongest dimension of the building itself and of the GPO. The Government approved this only yesterday, following a lot of work. We need to get it right. Sometimes what becomes interim becomes permanent too. We have to be conscious of that. This is an opportunity to really transform not just the GPO's impact but the wider area, with multipurpose functions on this site, while also being conscious of the remainder of the street to see what we can do there, as well as the work on Moore Street. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Healy-Rae  I urge the Government to outline its position on the EU lead ammunition proposal. This is the proposal to take lead out of ammunition, which could have a negative effect on 150,000 licensed shotgun owners in Ireland. There seems to be a problem in government in identifying which Minister and Department is actually going to be responsible for this. I would like a bit of effort to be made in that regard because rural stakeholders deserve to know what position Ireland intends to take before any decisions are made that could have significant negative consequences for firearm owners, farmers and sporting interests across the country. I know this is of particular interest to the National Association of Regional Game Councils of Ireland. These people represent real people on the ground. They are very responsible licensed gun-holders. What is being proposed by the EU is nonsensical. I would like to know what our position will be and which Minister and Department will be responsible for this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The proposed restriction on lead ammunition is being developed at the level of the European Union under the REACH regulation, which aims to protect human health and the environment from harmful chemical exposure. The proposal is intended primarily to reduce lead pollution from spent ammunition and to protect wild birds, hunters and their families from the harmful effects of lead exposure. The Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment participates in REACH processes through the Health and Safety Authority. Policy responsibility for matters relating to hunting, firearms and wildlife protection and environmental impacts rests with other Departments and agencies. The Department of enterprise has engaged with a number of relevant bodies. The Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment is engaged with the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of housing, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the Department of justice, and it continues to circulate relevant Departments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Healy-Rae  Yes, but the Minister seems to be saying it is not his responsibility. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  No, Deputy. That is not how this works. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I hear the Deputy. Having read the reply, I know what is going on in the sense----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The clock is not with you, Taoiseach. I call Deputy Heneghan. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I will revert to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  As someone who was recently diagnosed with ADHD, and as chair of the Oireachtas cross-party group on ADHD reform, I acknowledge the work done by the Minister of State, Deputy Butler. Continuing on from that, we had the ADHD Ireland strategic plan last week. I was lucky to have supports growing up when I had not been diagnosed with ADHD, but there are people in my constituency and across Ireland who do not have the family supports I have. When someone has ADHD they are more likely to engage in crime or experience addiction. Will the Government commit to ensuring the strategic plan is matched with real improvements in assessments, treatments and support for children and young adults living with ADHD? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)  I thank the Deputy for his advocacy in relation to ADHD, for the way he speaks openly about it and also for forming a cross-party committee on ADHD. As he knows, the model of care was launched in 2021 for adults with ADHD. We look after children with ADHD through the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS. There was a recommendation to have 14 funded adult teams. All 14 teams have been funded. Eleven are in place and we are working to get the last three under recruitment. However, when the model of care was devised we did not anticipate the number of referrals that would be made to it. It is under review again. I can talk to the Deputy about it. I thank him for his advocacy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We are nearly out of time. I ask Deputy McGrath to be as brief as he can. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath  I raise the offence of spiking. As we know, this is where a drug is administered to somebody, without their consent, in a drink or an injection in a busy night-time scene. It is a gross invasion of an individual and it can result in catastrophic consequences such as serious sexual assault. The programme for Government states that we will impose stronger laws in relation to spiking. Currently, spiking is dealt with under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act through an offence of poisoning. Stand-alone legislation is required to make this a dedicated and stand-alone offence. Will the Taoiseach take this matter up with the Department of justice to ensure the Government fulfils its commitment under the programme for Government? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  This is a very serious issue and I will take it up with the Minister for justice. I will talk to the Minister in respect of this issue and work to see if we can make progress on it, which I think we can. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  Last week, I had a meeting with two individuals, Sharon Lynn and Bryan Gallagher, which left a lasting impression on me. Both lost siblings individually in one-punch attacks. What they are asking for is structured sentencing guidelines for manslaughter cases, but also a national strategy on male-on-male violence. Is that something the Taoiseach's Department has considered? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I appreciate the work that Sharon Lynn and Bryan Gallagher are doing. Courts often respond negatively to mandatory guidelines from the Oireachtas but, nonetheless, it is something I will ask the Minister for justice to explore, in terms of manslaughter and male-on-male violence. More broadly, within our education system and the criminal justice system, we should focus on violence more generally. We had an earlier discussion on the shocking report from Women's Aid in respect of the number of terrible, violent incidents and domestic violence. There is an issue there that needs to be addressed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  I received a letter from Louth County Council, which I did not expect, requesting urgent support in securing Government funding to assist the council in addressing the extensive damage caused to the county's road and drainage infrastructure following Storm Chandra. The scale of the damage across the county is significant in both urban and rural areas, with the council recording 69 road closures and 81----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  A question please, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  -----road locations, with an estimated overall reinstatement requirement of \u20ac3.61 million. In all my years dealing with Louth County Council, it has always gone through the proper channels, but for the council to call on TDs and Senators to publicise the need for additional Government funding highlights the dire situation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I said briefly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  Will the Taoiseach explore this with the relevant Departments and Ministers, if he can? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  This is a general issue, not one that just applies to County Louth. What the Minister for public expenditure would say is that all county councils will have received funding that involved a provision for emergencies. That said, submissions have been made from county councils across the country, particularly those that were more affected than others by Storm Chandra.  The Government is giving consideration to that. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna - Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Cabinet Committees","counts":{"speechCount":55,"speakerCount":15},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_16.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We have two groupings, the first is questions Nos. 1 to 20, inclusive. The Taoiseach will have three minutes and I propose that Deputies will have 30 seconds each in order to accommodate the 20 Deputies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  Are there 20 in the room? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I am afraid I have to prepare on the basis that they will turn up. That is my job. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 20, inclusive, together.  The Cabinet committee on water quality oversees the implementation of programme for Government commitments in relation to issues affecting Ireland's water, including those related to agriculture, forestry, land-use change and wastewater treatment.  Water quality is vital to the well-being of our society, economy and environment. The programme for Government commits to improving water quality. The EPA recently published Water Quality in 2025: An Indicators Report, which signals annual changes and key indicators for water quality. In 2025, some improvements were recorded at a local level, although there had been no overall improvement in water quality nationally, with 54% of rivers recorded as having good or better biological quality. While the EPA analysis shows that significant challenges remain, it is important to recognise the progress that has been made. An example of positive improvement is the Ballyteigue-Bannow catchment in Wexford seeing the biological quality of a number of its rivers improve.  Last year's budget allocated almost \u20ac2.5 billion to the delivery of water services. That is an increase of \u20ac612 million on 2025. As part of this, \u20ac42 million in funding has been allocated to the 2026 water quality capital programme. Uisce \u00c9ireann is investing more than \u20ac2.3 billion in stand-alone projects at 108 wastewater treatment plans. This will deliver ten new wastewater treatment plant upgrades where current discharges place significant pressures on water bodies.  The water action plan published last year sets out over 150 actions to protect, improve and restore water quality. These include: the implementation and tracking of water action plan actions; the development of a stronger sixth nitrates action programme; the Farming for Water European Innovation Partnership project; and the national barrier mitigation programme, which will support fish migration and water quality.  The Minister, Deputy Browne, published the sixth nitrates action programme in December. It will run until 2028. This plan gives effect to the nitrates directive, which governs the management of nitrates loss from agriculture to water bodies. On foot of the measures included in this plan, in December 2025, the European Commission granted Ireland a three-year extension to its nitrates derogation. The Minister, Deputy Heydon, is working with his officials to address key conditions within the derogation decision. These include operationalising the environmental assessments to demonstrate enhanced compliance with respect to the nitrates derogation, the habitats directive and the water framework directive.  It will be important to safeguard the economic contribution of farmers in the areas most affected by the derogation while also implementing workable solutions for water quality. Last year, the Government published Water and Agriculture: A collaborative approach. This plan sets out a range of measures that address the twin objectives of improving water quality and building a convincing case for the maintenance of Ireland's derogation from certain aspects of the EU nitrates directive.   Additional information not given on the floor of the House    The Environmental Protection Agency recently released its report, Domestic Waste Water Treatment System Inspections 2025. This details the findings of septic tank inspections by local authorities in 2025. A total of 1,466 septic tank inspections were carried out in 2025, targeting areas of greatest risk from an environmental and health perspective. Of these, 59% failed inspection, with many posing a risk to nearby rivers and drinking water wells. Since 2013, 7,212 septic tanks have failed inspections, with 84% fixed by the end of 2025. Improved resolution of faulty septic tanks by homeowners has been aided by increased Government grant support.  The water quality Cabinet committee provides a focus to drive the improvement of water quality. The Cabinet committee met most recently on 30 October and will meet again in July. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  There are 20 questions and there are nine Members present. I will give them a minute each. They may risk not getting a fair answer if other Members join us. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peter 'Chap' Cleere  I am happy enough because I am first. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  You are still only getting a minute. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peter 'Chap' Cleere  As someone who was born and reared in rural Ireland and who lives there, I will highlight the very real challenges facing communities in my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny. In communities like those of Mullinavat and Inistioge, inadequate wastewater treatment capacity is becoming a serious barrier to future growth and future investment. People in these communities want to see homes delivered and young families supported. They want to see local businesses, sports clubs and schools given the opportunity to develop. However, without the necessary water and wastewater infrastructure, rural towns and villages around the country are being limited in their ability to reach their full potential. If this Government is serious about rural regeneration and balanced regional development, essential infrastructure must be delivered to deliver on those ambitions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  Last week, we read headlines such as \"No improvement to water quality standards in 2025 - EPA\" and \"Ireland\u2019s \u2018best rivers\u2019 continue to deteriorate in water quality\". I will raise the specific issue of combined sewer systems. In many of our urban areas, these are a particular contributor to deterioration in water quality. In these systems, wastewater and surface water are combined. The EPA has a programme to address this issue but it is not ambitious enough. Significantly increased investment is needed in the town of Kells in County Meath to rehabilitate its sewers through this combined sewer programme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Erin McGreehan  I ask that the Cabinet consider expanding eligibility for the septic tank grant scheme so that every household with a defective system can access support regardless of geography. If we do not take that step, we are asking people to protect water quality without giving them the means to do so. There are close to 500,000 septic tanks in use across the State. The recent grant of \u20ac12,000 is welcome but the scheme remains far too narrowly focused. Most of the time, people fall outside the criteria. In practice, households can only access support if they fail an inspection or fall within specific priority areas. If we are really serious about protecting water quality, we cannot rely on this reactive scheme. We want to be proactive. We need to take a preventative approach that supports homeowners before pollution occurs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I call on Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa. I am sorry; I did not see Deputy McCormack. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Tony McCormack  I am not that small. I welcome the progress being made on the Shannon water supply project, which is now before An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la. This project is about much more than supplying Dublin with water. It is also about creating opportunities in the future to develop spurs leading to Tullamore and Mullingar, which would create a counterbalance to Dublin and drive balanced growth within the midlands region. We all know that, when projects get done, the second phase can sometimes be left on the long finger, which can push them 20, 30 or 40 years down the road. Will the Taoiseach work with me to put pressure on Irish Water to ensure this second phase happens? It should become part of the first phase to provide more opportunities in Offaly, Westmeath and right across the midlands. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I will again bring up the issue of water infrastructure in County Louth, particularly in Hackballscross and Sheelagh. With regard to the reservoir in Dunbin, there have been telemetric monitoring failures and an issue with pumps being unable to contact these monitoring systems. For a number of weeks, families have not had water for days. Farms have gone without water and schools have been closed early. It is not good enough. We need to solve this issue. Locally, Irish Water has told me that it has some of the issues resolved but I need a meeting with Uisce \u00c9ireann at a corporate level. I request that the Taoiseach's office help facilitate this because I am having an issue with it. It is absolutely necessary. We should also look at an alternative water supply in the short term. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Connolly  I ask the Government to examine legislation and regulation in respect of the term \"bathing season\". The bathing season began on 1 June and will run until the end of September. The challenge is that local authorities will only sample water quality in bathing areas during the bathing season. This is despite the fact that people are now swimming outdoors throughout the year. This has developed in popularity since the Covid pandemic began. We do not know the quality of the water people are swimming in outside of what is considered the bathing season. Galway City Council only samples the water during the bathing season. Dublin City Council is the only local authority in the State that samples water outside of the bathing season. I know the Taoiseach himself enjoys a swim on Christmas Day. Everyone who enjoys swimming throughout the year needs to know the quality of the water they are swimming in. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy David Cullinane  I will raise an issue in respect of Woodlands, a housing estate in Portlaw, County Waterford. At the moment, water is provided through developer-provided infrastructure. This is costing the residents in this housing estate a lot of money. They obviously want to be connected to the public infrastructure. That will come at a cost. Catherine Burke, a councillor in the area, has been engaging with Irish Water on the issue for a long time. There does not seem to be a resolution. Will the Taoiseach make inquiries to Irish Water on my behalf? I have contacted it but I believe contact from the Taoiseach could make a difference. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  Met \u00c9ireann is saying that we are facing tropical temperatures tonight.  It is absolutely baking out there and people want, and should be able, to swim. However, all across D\u00fan Laoghaire-Rathdown there are warning notices saying people cannot swim. The reason - and I have raised this repeatedly - is because of the failure of Irish Water-Uisce \u00c9ireann to rehabilitate the water infrastructure and the fact that when heavy rains come down, rainwater mixes with sewage and it goes into Dublin Bay. The test results come three days later and there is a warning asking people not to swim. By the way, people are swimming despite this and endangering their health. I have raised this repeatedly. The only reason we have testing outside the bathing season, by the way, is because we fought for it in Dublin. We need same-day testing and the rehabilitation of this decrepit water infrastructure that is preventing people swimming. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  There are thousands of people already at our coasts or on their way to our coasts to swim but there are swimming restrictions in place across all of the closest designated swimming spots south of the city centre. The Half Moon, Seapoint, D\u00fan Laoghaire Baths, Sandycove and the Forty Foot have all been under an eight-day swim restriction notice since Thursday last. The notice warns of a possible increase in bacteria following heavy rainfall. In other words, there is a good chance you are swimming in faeces. The same notice goes up every time there is heavy rain, which means it happens a lot, because the sewage system is overloaded due to decades of underinvestment. The council is advising beach-goers to reduce the risk of illness by avoiding splashing or swallowing water. Tell that to the hundreds of kids swimming at beaches yesterday. Does the Taoiseach think it is acceptable for children to be swimming in faeces? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  One of the most basic responsibilities of a Government is to keep water in the taps and keep the lights on, yet in County Meath our water infrastructure is that of a developing country. County Meath towns are regularly without water and new housing estates are being delayed as a result of the water infrastructure. I know of one housing estate that has to wait more than a year for Uisce \u00c9ireann to connect it to the water infrastructure. Last month, Ballivor was without water for so long that the school had to close. Today, they are trucking water to Ballivor. Tomorrow, Athboy and Kildalkey will be without water. Water supply is cut regularly and the water is regularly discoloured, and vulnerable people are hurting. Can the Taoiseach confirm that the people of County Meath will have clean and consistent water within the next 50 years? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Did the Deputy say 50 years? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  The people of Newport have waited decades for a wastewater treatment plant that is fit for purpose. This is absolutely critical infrastructure. For them to hear now that it may be 2031 before they get this critical infrastructure is absolutely not acceptable for families, businesses or community groups in the area. This is a beautiful town that has waited too long. I am asking the Taoiseach to intervene so that it does not have to wait until 2031 for something as basic as a wastewater treatment plant. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  In 2024, 59% of Ireland\u2019s existing treatment plants failed to consistently meet the standards set out in their EPA licence. Nearly half of these, that is approximately 120 instances, were due to poor operational management, things like pumps not working and maintenance not happening on equipment. In fact, the EPA has prosecuted Uisce \u00c9ireann 35 times for failing to properly treat wastewater. Can the Taoiseach tell me why Uisce \u00c9ireann gave 47 of its best-paid employees an average of \u20ac21,000 in bonus payments for good performance in 2024, while at the same time there were 120 instances of someone, somewhere not doing his or her job when it came to treating our water and ensuring and protecting our water supply? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  I was swimming in D\u00fan Laoghaire this morning, so I am very worried. I have raised this multiple times. In the north Dublin coastal communities of Clontarf, Bayside and Howth, swimmers constantly get swim warnings. Se\u00e1n Dublin Bay Loftus, a former Independent TD in my constituency whose family endorsed me, fought to protect Dublin Bay from pollution. Other countries have cracked this. The Netherlands has restored millions of seagrass plants along its coasts, as well as oysters which can use natural means to clean the water. However, that is treating the problem. At the end of the day, we need to get to the root cause, which is more water treatment plants. The water treatment plant in north Dublin proposed under the greater Dublin drainage project needs to be brought in faster. The current overflow system in Poolbeg is not large enough and needs to be looked at for swimmers in my area. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I would love a swim now. I will not get one. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  The Taoiseach cannot go to D\u00fan Laoghaire, I am afraid. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am working too hard all day and will not get the chance. The Deputies have all made me very envious. Everyone is going swimming and we are in here. We should reflect.  Deputy \u2018Chap\u2019 Cleere made a very valid point in terms of Mullinavat and Inistioge. I have been saying this to Irish Water. As the Deputy knows, one of the outcomes of our discussions has been developer-led treatment plants. There were some decisions made on that, but it is in terms of naturally based water treatment processes which would then enable developer-led waste treatment to be put in for villages and towns, because Irish Water has said it will never get to them. It will be doing the bigger stuff and it will not get out to the villages and towns around Ireland. That has been decided upon. We need to do more than that, if I am honest. I am not quite satisfied that is sufficient, but it is a start. We have many towns which have basic facilities in terms of additional housing contiguous to the village and so on. I am with the Deputy on that one.  Deputy O\u2019Rourke spoke about Kells and the combined sewer investment. Again, I will talk to Irish Water. There is progress and work on that but I will certainly raise it with Irish Water.  Deputy McGreehan gave a very interesting presentation on septic tanks. She said the scheme is too narrowly focused. I will examine that. The EPA recently released a report on domestic wastewater treatment system inspections in 2025. It is interesting that 1,400 septic tank inspections were carried out and 59% failed inspection, with many posing a risk to nearby rivers and drinking water. Since 2013, 7,000 septic tanks failed inspections, with 84% fixed by the end of 2025. There is Government grant support, as the Deputy said. I will speak to the Minister. The Deputy is saying to broaden it out and have a more proactive approach. That is a very good idea and I will see if we can activate that as opposed to a reactive one.  I could not agree more with Deputy McCormack. It is the eastern midlands project. I did not realise that the midlands was the second phase. In my view, if we are going up along, we need to sort it out and do the midlands. By the way, it will be the best argument for the east as well. Some people are worried about it and opposing it but it is absolutely essential for the future of the country the that project gets off the ground and developed in terms of water supply and wastewater. It will have a negligible impact on the Shannon or ecology, in my view. It should have happened earlier. This Government has taken a decision in terms of a fundamental piece of infrastructure that simply has to happen. The midlands is a natural growth area that would take pressure off the east and whose time has come for a broader-based economic development prospect. Between the energy side and this project, that gives us the fundamentals to do that.  All politics is local but I note Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa wants a meeting at corporate level. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I have met locally. What I am looking for----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  My experience in life is that the engineer or person on the ground might know an awful lot more than the corporates in terms of specific pipes and so on. I will pursue it and I will raise the fact that the Deputy has raised it with me.  Deputy Connolly has a sensible proposal. The bathing season of June to September does not make sense any more. Particularly since Covid, an awful lot more people swim all 12 months round. I interviewed Professor Luke O'Neill some time back, before I became Taoiseach. Cold water is very good for you, apparently. It is very good for the immune system. People are swimming all year round. Deputy 'Chap' Cleere should try it some time. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  It makes absolute sense to carry out testing, particularly in rural towns and villages, during the festive season and the winter when there are many swimming events, such as on Christmas Day, new year's eve and new year's day. A lot of people gather in those areas for those events.  It is a very good point. I will get the Minister to send a circular to the local authorities on that.  Deputy Cullinane said to inquire with Irish Water about Portlaw and Woodlands. I hope he does not mind but I better inquire with the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Butler as well. She is from Portlaw, as the Deputy knows. I will try to sort out what is happening and what the county council is doing. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy David Cullinane  Just to get a response from Irish Water. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We have a number of areas where things are not taken in charge. These things should be facilitated by the agencies.  I got the message from Deputy Boyd Barrett but he went from tropical weather to torrential rainfall within one minute. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  It was within three days. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Within three days. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  That is precisely what tropical weather is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We have to be fair to everybody. The Taoiseach, please. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am trying to work out when the torrential rainfall was but the point is well made. There is a fundamental issue there and that is why we are putting \u20ac2.5 billion into this to do some very substantial wastewater infrastructure. Dublin is one of the areas that is probably most impacted because of the access to the coast, the huge population and so on.  Deputy Paul Murphy essentially made the same point in terms of the impacts on swimmers. This is a public health issue and we cannot take it lightly. When warnings are given we have to take them on board because it can result in significant illness for people who could be immunosupressed or whatever, which would be doubly dangerous for them.  Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  Fifty years. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  In 50 years. I would like to commit, yes, but I think we will do it much sooner. There is huge investment going in. The delivery and upgrading continues apace.  On the issue raised by Deputy Conway-Walsh, I am not sure of the background as to why there are delays until 2031. The project is under way, I take it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  Could the Taoiseach tell them to hurry up? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  No, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I will examine it with Irish Water. They make a very good black pudding in Newport as well, by the way. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Taoiseach, there are two more Deputies and one minute. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I will certainly look into it and check with Irish Water as to why. It might be an operational or planning issue. I do not know but I will check with them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Whitmore's question was next. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy Whitmore referenced 59%. This is a very serious point which I have raised with Irish Water. In my view, there should not be operational errors or non-performance which then leads to poor water quality. The Irish water authority should be the personification of excellence in terms of clean water. There has been some pretty poor evidence in some areas where standards have dropped. In fairness to the 47 best-paid employees, I would say they were not involved. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Someone at the top has to be. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy, we will be out of time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Collectively, there is a question about ethos here. We have had presentations from the EPA and Irish Water and this is an issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We are out of time, Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy Heneghan, too, raised the issue of water quality. You are looking okay but, that said----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Thank you very much. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  You are looking very well, actually. You are invigorated from your swim. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Time, Taoiseach. We have to move on. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  However, at the same time, we will----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  We will report further. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cabinet Committees"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"British-Irish Co-operation","counts":{"speechCount":57,"speakerCount":14},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shane Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_17.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I propose to take Questions Nos. 21 to 37, inclusive, together.  I note the announcement of the resignation of the Uniter Kingdom Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, earlier this week, and acknowledge the very significant role he has played in resetting the Irish-British relationship, as well as relations between the United Kingdom and the European Union, during his time as Prime Minister. Since Prime Minister Starmer took office two years ago, he has worked with us to set a new direction and depth in the relationship between Ireland and the United Kingdom for the benefit of all our citizens, North-South and east-west. Our two Governments also took an important step forward in dealing with the legacy of the past in Northern Ireland, publishing a joint framework on addressing the legacy of the Troubles. As I said this week, Keir is a person of great ability, decency and honour and I want to wish him, his wife Victoria and their family the very best in the next chapter in their lives. I have no doubt that his successor as Prime Minister will wish to continue to deepen and strengthen the relationship between the United Kingdom and Ireland, and we will continue to work in furtherance of that objective.  I hosted a United Kingdom-Ireland summit in Cork on 12 and 13 March. This was the second summit in a series initiated in Liverpool last year, at which Prime Minister Keir Starmer and I agreed a new comprehensive programme of strategic co-operation: United Kingdom-Ireland 2030. This year\u2019s summit was an opportunity to review progress on United Kingdom-Ireland 2030 and to identify further areas for co-operation and work to be taken forward across government in collaboration with United Kingdom counterparts.  The summit in Cork had an extensive programme over two days, reflecting the significant nature of this bilateral relationship. The opening engagement was a round-table event attended by businesses and business representative groups to explore issues related to trade and investment and what Ireland and the United Kingdom can do together to further our already substantial economic relationship.  The Prime Minister and I also had the opportunity to meet representatives of the Ireland-UK Youth Forum, established in January 2026 in fulfilment of a commitment made at last year\u2019s summit. The aim of the forum is to ensure that a new generation is involved in the strengthening of relations across these islands.  The summit programme also included a civic and cultural reception in Cork City Hall and a research- and innovation-focused visit to the Tyndall National Institute. Prime Minister Starmer and I also met over dinner on 12 March.  The summit plenary, held in Fota House, saw a wide-ranging discussion on achievements to date under United Kingdom-Ireland 2030, and on shared ambitions to see co-operation deepen and deliver to 2030 across a range of areas, including energy security and the transition to clean energy, protection of subsea infrastructure, cybersecurity, cultural exchange and competitiveness. We also discussed wider international issues, including the Middle East, the Gulf region and Ukraine.   Additional information not given on the floor of the House   We agreed a joint statement reflecting the overall theme of the summit, Shared Prosperity, Shared Seas, Shared Ties, which set out achievements over the past year and looked ahead to future work together to the mutual benefit of both countries.  I was accompanied at the summit by the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Finance, Deputy Simon Harris; the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence, Deputy Helen McEntee; the Minister for Climate, Environment, Energy, and Transport, Deputy Darragh O\u2019Brien, and the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, Deputy Jim O\u2019 Callaghan. Accompanying Prime Minister Starmer were Ed Miliband, Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero; Emma Reynolds, Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Peter Kyle, Secretary of State for Business and Trade and Hilary Benn, Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  There are 17 Deputies and the best I can do is to give those here a minute each. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  Now that we have the EU asylum and migration pact there needs to be particular recognition and consideration of the Border with the North and the common travel area. Has the Taoiseach discussed or considered how those asylum and migration systems will work North-South and east-west? Are there plans for improved co-operation? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  Some 85% of asylum seekers who come into this State are coming from Britain through the North of Ireland. It is by far the biggest pathway for the movement of people in relation to the asylum process. We enjoy a common travel area with Britain but there have been significant problems over the past number of years. That is because there are three separate jurisdictions and not a lot of sharing of information. It means Ireland and Britain cannot control the movement of people and we do not have accurate records as to who is where. The Traditional Unionist Voice, TUV, has indicated recently there needs to be a hard border but that is simply impossible. There are 270 roads going north and south. I got information on Operation Sonnet last week. This is where Border checks are placed North and South. They happened on 30 days last year and there were 184 detections. It is window dressing, in reality. What we need is an Irish sea border for the movement of people. That has been accepted by the Taoiseach, Europe and Britain for the movement of goods as the only real way to be able to track the movement of goods. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Devlin is next. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  It is possible to have an Irish sea border and still enjoy the common travel area----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Devlin is on his feet. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  -----just with the use of passports and driver's licences in relation to British and Irish citizens. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  Will the Taoiseach bring this up with the new British Administration, please? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Devlin. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  I join the Taoiseach in his remarks about Prime Minister Starmer and all of the work he has done in rebuilding the relationship between Ireland and the UK, including through the UK-Ireland summits that have taken place in Liverpool and Cork.  I welcome the \u20ac377 million announced overnight for the shared island initiative, particularly the \u20ac193 million for the Dublin-Belfast-Derry line. That is real all-island progress and the Taoiseach deserves credit as well for starting that initiative. Much of this funding rightly is for large infrastructure but some of the most lasting reconciliation happens at community level. On that point, in my own constituency of D\u00fan Laoghaire, local schools and sport links had been created between Shankill in D\u00fan Laoghaire and Shankill in Belfast. That is practical community relations.  Will the Taoiseach consider whether the shared island fund can support more of these people-to-people connections, be it sporting or community organisations, on both sides of the Border, alongside its investment in roads and the rail network? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shane Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Shane Moynihan  I associate myself with the Taoiseach's remarks about Prime Minister Starmer and I wish him and his family well.  One of the great things about our relationship with UK is the fact that we can still take advantage of the cross-border directive. However, constituents have been contacting me in recent weeks about significant delays in reimbursement under that directive. Some applicants are waiting five or six months despite indicative timelines of three months. In many cases, this is causing financial strain for patients who must pay upfront, including accumulating interest costs where loans are required. Will the Taoiseach intervene and see if clarity can be provided on whether these backlogs relate to staffing constraints and whether the additional interest that may be accrued will be reimbursed when processing times are exceeded? The cross-border directive is an excellent scheme and I would hate for it to lose public confidence due to operational issues. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brendan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","memberCode":"Brendan-Smith.D.1992-12-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brendan Smith  I welcome the establishment of annual UK-Ireland summits. These have the potential to strengthen further bilateral relationships and intensify collaboration in areas such as trade, business, technology, investment, energy and environment. Alongside these annual summits, the Government must also ensure that the potential of the institutions established under the Good Friday Agreement across our jurisdictions are maximised to the best possible extent. As well as that important work, legacy issues must get priority attention in all Irish-British discussions. I refer again to the heinous crimes and loss of life inflicted on communities in my constituency, crimes for which nobody has been brought to justice. I instance again the murder of two young teenagers in my own home area when Geraldine O\u2019Reilly and Patrick Stanley were killed in the bombing in Belturbet on 28 December 1972, and the dreadful loss of life in Monaghan and Dublin on 17 May 1974, when 34 innocent people, including an unborn child, were killed and 300 were seriously injured. Decade after decade has passed and families continue to grieve but there has been little if any progress on investigations into these murders. These must be addressed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  We have seen recently the T\u00e1naiste's foray into united Ireland politics. I would like to think that would lead to a change in relation to Government policy. We all welcome that infrastructural deficits will be dealt with as a result of the shared island unit. We all want to see the likes of the Narrow Water Bridge and we also want to see whatever relationships can be built, but let us be clear, the one thing that we do need to see is movement towards constitutional change. This means preparation. It is sensible to do preparation. Sinn F\u00e9in wants to see a Green Paper and a citizens' assembly. It does not have to be citizens' assembly, it just needs to be any kind of forum to have those discussions on what this could look like. That would be the best means of dealing with the issue that we constantly talk about as regards reconciliation and whatever else. I would like to think that we would see movement on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  Workers at Haldane Fisher in Newry, one of the biggest construction supply companies in the whole of Ireland, North and South, and in the UK, are on strike because Haldane Fisher, a very profitable company, is offering them pay increases that are significantly below the rate of inflation. The workers reckon that they have actually lost about 3% or 4% in real income terms over recent years. Haldane Fisher seems to be trying to break the strike and is refusing to negotiate with Unite the Union, which represents the workers.  I would say that one reason Keir Starmer is on his way out is because he failed working people on the cost-of-living crisis. That is something we should not do. It is important that a message be sent to Haldane Fisher. It should engage with these workers. These workers, and all workers, deserve pay increases that at least keep pace with inflation so that they are not losing income. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  You would not know it from listening to the British commentariat, but a key factor in the downfall of Keir Starmer was his complicity in genocide and, in particular, that infamous clip where he says Israel does have the right to block water, block food and block electricity from Gaza while engaging in very blatant war crimes.  Another man entirely complicit in genocide is Peter Thiel, the founder of Palantir, which is deeply integrated into the Israeli military structure and has played a crucial role in the slaughter of huge numbers of Palestinians. Peter Thiel is planning a sinister event in Ireland, organised by Dialog. It is a secretive event involving 200 people, with high-powered people and others with connections to genocide, including US Senator Ted Cruz, Secretary Scott Bessent and the NATO Europe commander. The topics are bizarre and include bringing back nuclear, navigating a third world war and battlefield technologies. Does the Taoiseach think the Powerscourt Hotel should be facilitating this event? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  The Taoiseach talked about Keir Starmer being decent and resetting relationships. If ever there was a Prime Minister who did moral bankruptcy, it is Keir Starmer. Here is somebody who got in with a huge Labour majority and proceeded to lean in to racism, anti-migrant sentiment, transphobia and every single thing you can think of. He inflicted austerity on pensioners and the disabled. Let us talk about Palestine. Deputies here are meant to be supporting Palestine and yet they are congratulating Starmer and wishing him well. What about the Palestinian families whose water he thought it was fine to cut off? What about the spy flights over Gaza which Starmer endorsed? He shared intelligence with the Israel Defense Forces, IDF, and exported military goods worth $169 million. He has jailed young people for committing non-violent crimes. He put them on a par with ISIS and jailed them as terrorists. That is not decent. It is absolutely reprehensible. To support a genocide is reprehensible. Good riddance to him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Erin McGreehan  There is a significant opportunity to place research, innovation, higher education and collaboration at the centre of any future conversations we have with regard to any UK-Ireland summits. The UK\u2019s return to Horizon Europe is an important and welcome development. Restoring those research links will benefit both our islands. It should also encourage us to think more ambitiously about what additional bilateral initiatives could achieve. I propose that between now and the next UK-Ireland summit we consider the establishment of a dedicated UK-Ireland innovation and research partnership to complement Horizon Europe and deepen collaboration between our universities, researchers and industries. Such a partnership could support joint research projects, research and mobility, doctoral training programmes and innovation-led collaborations in areas where both our countries share strategic interests, such as healthcare, climate action, food security, AI and advanced technologies. The academic relationship between Ireland and the UK took a hit during Brexit and this an opportunity for us all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Whitmore  Plug-in solar represents a huge opportunity to enable renters and those who live in apartments or in heritage homes to access the benefits of solar power and to make savings on their bills. The UK is powering ahead with this and I hope Ireland will follow suit. I have raised this repeatedly with the Minister and I know he is open to this. I understand the ESB is looking at it. I ask that the Taoiseach actually put a timeline on it because the Department has been looking at this for two years and we really cannot have any delays. This really needs to be fast-tracked. The benefits are huge and we are obviously in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. I ask that the Taoiseach speed up progress on this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Heneghan  Any upcoming legislation on clerical institutional abuse must have a cross-Border dimension. Catholic dioceses like Clogher span the Border and so do their school networks. We have evidence of clergy being moved between jurisdictions because of abuse concerns. Survivors of abuse in this State who sought refuge in the North found that the abuse continued there, and they are now dealing with both An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the PSNI. Will the Taoiseach commit to engage with the Executive in Belfast, or is he already doing so, to strengthen co-operation between the two criminal justice systems so that abusers cannot use jurisdictional gaps to escape accountability? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy O'Rourke asked about the EU asylum pact and the common travel area. The European Union asylum pact creates a structure that is positive, firm and robust. It has critics on the left and it has critics on the right. One side is saying we are not going far enough and the other is saying that we are going too far in terms of the returns aspect. We need to protect the common travel area because it is of enormous value to our citizens. Equally, as others have said, it creates challenges in terms of migration flows, particularly with people coming from the UK into Northern Ireland and over the Border. That is reality. The Minister for justice has been in touch with the home secretary. There was a call last week. We discussed this during the UK summit.  I do also believe, in terms of Operation Sonnet and other operations, that there is strengthened monitoring of traffic and people coming across, and that there is checking of public transport and other areas. There will never be a hard Border. There cannot be a hard Border. Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn also raised this issue and made a claim of 85%. I do not have a precise figure on that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  Nobody has the precise figure because of the movement of people. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Everybody needs an answer, so do not interrupt. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn then went on to give a precise figure. I will just leave it----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  I am only telling the Taoiseach what the Minister said. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I do not care. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The point is I think it is high. I am not arguing the figure, but the point I would make is there is a need for data on this. There are also less and less coming in through airports because of controls and so on that have been implemented over the last two to three years. There is an issue, but I am not clear. Could the Deputy flesh out his proposals and send me a paper on the Irish Sea border, and how that would operate and could be implemented? That is challenging as well and we need to be honest with people when ideas like that are floated. We do need more monitoring and controls so that we understand what is happening in these flows, as well as to deal with traffickers. I came across some terrible cases when I met Women's Aid in Northern Ireland recently in terms of women who were trafficked and horrifically abused in the course of the trafficking. Trafficking is a significant driver of migration also, and that does not get captured enough in the debate and the narrative.  I appreciate Deputy Devlin's reference to what is a very significant allocation from the shared island fund. It is more than just infrastructure. It is about people and the shared island initiative has put more research into systems North and South, such as health and education, than anything that has been done since the foundation of the State. I also direct that to Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa. Under the shared island initiative, there is facilitation for people-to-people supports. The shared home place programme is one potential area, and the Department of foreign affairs, under the shared island initiative, has a community-based funding scheme and programme. We have a dialogue strand which is bringing people together and then we have a research strand. The funding strand deals with research between universities, collaboration on cancer and issues of mutual concern to communities. If the Deputy has particular ideas, please talk to us. The connectivity that is happening now----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Nine Deputies. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----is particularly important. In that respect, I would make the point that in terms of the Narrow Water Bridge project, a lot of people were talking about it for a long time and nothing was done----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  True. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----both in the North as well as the South, including members of Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa's party, but the point is that this Government has done it and we have put a scheme in place to enable that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Moynihan. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy Moynihan raised the cross-Border directive. We are going to do more work on that. We have identified that as an area generally under the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, and also in terms of North-South relationships. We are asking Departments about tax, treatment of workers and so on. Have I picked up the Deputy's issue correctly? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shane Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Shane Moynihan  It was in reference to health procedures and reimbursements. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  That is not fair to other Members. There is no interaction. The Taoiseach has eight Members to respond to. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am going to get everyone done. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Taoiseach has three minutes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Anything is possible. In response to Deputy Smith, I want to say that legacy issues remain a very top priority, particularly with a new Prime Minister coming in. The legislation is in the UK and they need to implement it. We will pursue the Monaghan and Dublin bombings, although we are waiting for Operation Denton to perhaps bring more clarity to that.  In response to Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa, the amount of research that has been done under the shared island initiative is revealing. It is extensive and it is pointing up issues that we are trying to deal with and are dealing with. Where is the Deputy's Green Paper? There is nothing stopping Sinn F\u00e9in from producing a Green Paper. It is my view that Sinn F\u00e9in----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  He is the Taoiseach. He has the power of the State. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We are working. We are working flat out. I am substance all the way. I am not about slogans. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Do something on unity. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am not saying someone else give me the solution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I am saying the State. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy, please. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Sorry, the Deputy is always saying that Sinn F\u00e9in's view is that \"Everybody else must do the Green Paper except ourselves\". That is the bottom line. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Boyd Barrett. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  In any event----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Boyd Barrett. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  In response to Deputy Boyd Barrett, again, I do not have the specifics on the strike. Industrial relations mechanisms are there to resolve issues between companies and workers and they should be utilised.  In response to the Deputy Murphy's comments on the British commentariat, to suggest that Prime Minister Starmer committed genocide, as Deputies Murphy and Coppinger did, is outrageous. He did not commit genocide. I do not know much about the event the Deputy is talking about. We are a democracy in this country. If people are meeting, so long as they are not doing any harm to anybody else----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  They are planning to do a lot of harm. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  There are three Deputies, that is not fair. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  There is a tendency on the far left and on the far right to say that no one else can meet but themselves. I have no truck with these people. I have no interest in whatever is going on there, but----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Five deputies, Taoiseach. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  -----citizens of different countries are entitled to come to Ireland. If they get visas, they are entitled to meet and organise. We have a very good democracy here. In the international transparency index, by all measures, we score very highly because of our approach to these issues. That is generally a positive, and we should not try to undermine that either.  I disagree with Deputy Coppinger's remarks on former Prime Minister Keir Starmer. I would not have agreed with all his views on Palestine and the Middle East, but I would not make the assertions and allegations that she has in respect of him.  In response to Deputy McGreehan's question on research and education, the idea of an innovation partnership with the UK is one that we will next pursue for the next summit. We endeavour to try to bring industry and businesses together more, but the idea of an academic collaboration, which has an enterprise dimension to it around new ideas, products and services, is definitely something we could and will pursue to see if can put flesh and bone on that in preparation for next year's summit. Again, the combination of universities, companies and State agencies, like Enterprise Ireland and InterTradeIreland, with their UK counterparts, is something that is very positive. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Taoiseach, please be quick. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  We recently endowed a chair for history in Cambridge university to try to strengthen the academic partnership in the humanities between the UK and Ireland.  In response to Deputy Whitmore, I will actually go the Minister and ask him for a timeline. He is committed to plug-in solar. Deputy Heneghan has spoken about this quite a lot as well. The Minister is worried, and he is getting feedback that we have to make sure that domestic capacity exists and we do not unintended consequences like fires at particular houses and so on. He is concerned about that, and it is real concern. I will put it to him that we need a timeline, if he does not have one already.  In response to Deputy Heneghan, there is ongoing co-operation between the PSNI and the Garda, but also in terms of abuse North-South, we will work with the Executive on issues of that kind. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 2.08 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 3.10 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Sitting suspended at 2.08 p.m. and resumed at 3.10 p.m. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"British-Irish Co-operation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Message from Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  The Select Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration has completed its detailed scrutiny of the Victims of Sexual Violence Civil Protection Orders Bill 2025 and, in accordance with Standing Order 185, has recommended that, for the reasons outlined in its report, the Bill should proceed to Committee Stage. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Message from Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"Pride: Statements","counts":{"speechCount":37,"speakerCount":33},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Hildegarde Naughton","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","memberCode":"Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  We commence our debate with a statement from the Minister, Norma Foley, followed by one from the Minister of State, Emer Higgins. The 25 minutes are to be shared, I think. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Children, Disability and Equality (Deputy Norma Foley)  A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, ba mhaith liom mo bhu\u00edochas a ghabh\u00e1il leat as ucht an deis seo a thabhairt dom. I welcome the opportunity to speak to the House on Pride. It is a time of celebration, a time of reflection and a time of renewed commitment. Pride is not merely a festival; it is a living reminder of courage, resistance and the enduring pursuit of dignity for LGBTIQ+ people. It acts as a reminder of the work still to do to allow the LGBTIQ+ community to live openly and freely without fear of discrimination or hatred.  Throughout Ireland, many events will take place for Pride throughout designated days in June and July and, as always, I look forward to those events in my home constituency of Kerry in the coming weeks. However, the impact reaches far beyond just one singular day in any part of the country. It is inspiring to see the expansion of Pride festivals across Ireland, particularly in rural areas, and I warmly welcome their continued growth year after year.  In Ireland we often speak of progress, and rightly so. We have travelled a remarkable distance in a relatively short time. The marriage equality referendum in 2015 changed Ireland in so many profound ways. There is so much to celebrate in terms of the path to equality for the LGBTIQ+ community since that remarkable day. Ireland has in many ways become an example of what social change can look like when driven by compassion, activism and active engagement with the Government.  Last year I launched the national LGBTIQ+ inclusion strategy 2024-2028 and its associated first two-year action plan. The strategy aims to promote and respect the right of LGBTIQ+ people to live their lives safely, free of harassment and free of violence. This is by means of several prevention and protection measures. The strategy incorporates a stronger outcomes-focused approach and a transparent implementation structure. It features achievable actions and clear performance indicators. It has adopted a more focused approach to ensure that actions are realistic and achievable while still being ambitious.  The pillars on which the strategy is built are: safety; health and well-being; participation and inclusion; and equality and non-discrimination. These pillars seek to directly confront the continuing challenges faced by LGBTIQ+ people today. The actions through which the strategy is being implemented reflect the determination of the whole of government and State agencies to work together to that end. Since the launch of the strategy in June 2025, Departments and agencies have been advancing a range of actions set out in the first action plan. While progress takes time, important and promising work is taking place under all four pillars.  As my colleagues will be aware, I submitted a memorandum for Government for information to Cabinet on 23 June in relation to the inaugural national LGBTIQ+ inclusion strategy. The report marks an important milestone in our shared commitment to building a more equal, a more inclusive and a more respectful society, a society where every single person can live with dignity, safety and full participation. The drafting of this inaugural report not only provides an opportunity to reflect on the progress achieved over the past year but also strengthens our determination to address the challenges that remain.  The safety pillar includes several prevention and protection measures to promote and respect the right of LGBTIQ+ people to live their lives safely, free of harassment and, as I have said, violence. Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n's online safety code came into full effect in July 2025, thereby strengthening protections against harmful content, including harassment and abusive remarks directed against LGBTIQ+ people. An Coimisi\u00fan has also made strong progress on sector-wide equality and diversity supports and the development of gender equality, diversity and inclusion standards.  Local community safety partnerships were established under the Policing, Security and Community Safety Act 2024, which commenced in 2025. These partnerships represent a significant step towards a more collaborative, responsive and locally driven model of community safety.  An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na has continued to invest in its network of Garda diversity officers. These officers are trained and supported to actively engage with and attend to the concerns of minority, diverse and hard-to-reach communities. They aim to provide reassurance, build trust and extend the accessibility of the Garda service. A review of the Garda diversity officers' network took place in November 2025, and workshops were carried out for 12 Garda divisions. This added an additional 150 officers to the network, bringing the current number of Garda diversity officers to 666.  Progress under the health and well-being pillar shows increased investment in strengthening mental health supports for LGBTIQ+ people. The Mental Health Commission developed a guidance document for staff working in mental health services on the care and treatment of LGBTIQ+ people and launched it in 2025. This progress is essential because research has shown that LGBTIQ+ people can face higher levels of depression, anxiety and stress.  A key achievement under the national inclusion strategy was the establishment of the LGBTIQ+ community services fund. This fund provides vital funding for initiatives that promote inclusion, protect rights and improve the quality of life and well-being for members of the LGBTIQ+ community. It helps them to participate fully in Ireland's social, economic, cultural and political life. The fund supports the establishment and enhancement of safe spaces in their many forms across the country. The importance of these safe spaces cannot be overestimated. They allow for the creation of connection, solidarity and a sense of belonging. Today I was delighted to announce that 52 projects are to receive funding under the 2026 community services funding call. Through the fund, a total of \u20ac1.8 million will be made available to support organisations to deliver projects at national, regional and local levels. This support will help ensure that LGBTIQ+ individuals across Ireland can access these vital services and continue to flourish within their own communities. Successful projects include assisting LGBTIQ+ people living in rural communities to access safe spaces, providing supports to older and disabled LGBTIQ+ people and strengthening community and counselling supports. Since 2020 over \u20ac9 million in funding has been provided to 231 projects. The amount of funding available under the fund has increased annually since 2020, indicating the importance of this funding both to the Government and to the wider community. I thank the community for its continued engagement with the community services fund over the past six years.  Notable achievements have been made under the participation and inclusion pillar. This reflects strong efforts to ensure that LGBTIQ+ voices are heard as part of the relevant strategy and policy development and are embedded across national youth engagement structures. LGBTIQ+ people are now represented within Youth Ireland's governance structures, and work is ongoing to ensure their inclusion in wider Government consultations.  Under the strategy, the first annual LGBTIQ+ forum was successfully held in April of this year. The event brought together representatives, organisations, civil society, public bodies and colleagues from across Government Departments. The forum was established to showcase examples of best practice, provide an opportunity to ask questions on implementation of the strategy and to feed back directly to the steering committee that oversees the strategy. I acknowledge the importance and the value of the forum. It brings together people with lived experience, community organisations and public bodies to talk openly about what is working and, importantly, what still needs to change. Personal insights and experiences are essential to shaping better outcomes.  The strategy only works if it leads to real change, manifest change in people's lives. That is why the work done at the forum discussing the implementation of the strategy as it relates to the community and identifying the most important actions for the second action plan was so valuable. It illustrates how we in government remain committed to working in partnership with LGBTIQ+ people. We know that progress requires listening, respect and genuine collaboration.  As we approach our Presidency of the European Union, we have chosen to showcase and uphold the values of the Union, values founded on the respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights. This choice once again confirms our Government's commitment to creating an equal society. Now more than ever, the EU needs to defend and vindicate those values within Europe and globally. The Irish Presidency will seek to strengthen the EU's approach to equality, social inclusion, non-discrimination and the protection of the rights of minorities in line with the renewed Union of equality strategies. Ireland will use the EU Presidency to advance LGBTIQ+ equality and inclusion.  The Department of Children, Disability and Equality will host a high-level conference on non-discrimination on 6 October 2026. The conference will offer an opportunity to highlight achievement across key policy areas while considering the varying levels of progress towards advancing more and more equality across the EU, ensuring there are areas of interest for a broader audience. The policy areas considered at the conference will align closely with the Equality Strategy 2026-2030. One area that will be explored is LGBTIQ+ equality across the lifecycle, looking at supporting young LGBTIQ+ people and their families, with a particular emphasis on the digital environment, and examining the challenges faced by older people. The event will gather national governments, EU institutions, international organisations and LGBTIQ+ civil society representatives among others to discuss progress and challenges. A meeting of the expert group on LGBTIQ+ equality will follow the conference. The expert group is composed of government experts nominated by member states to support and monitor progress and the protection of people's rights in the member states. Ireland is also supporting a further conference in October as a Presidency-associated event. The ILGA-Europe annual conference is the largest gathering of LGBTIQ+ activists, organisations and allies in Europe and central Asia. It brings together around 400 participants each year for several days of strategy-building, networking, knowledge-sharing and decision-making.  We must be mindful that equality is not a single destination; it is a continuous journey, and one that we must remain committed to. As a Government, we must continue working to build an Ireland where diversity is embraced, where equality is not an aspiration but a lived reality for all citizens. Pride is a moment to look forward, not just a moment to look back, to reflect on the work still to be done to combat discrimination, to ensure our schools, services and workplaces are inclusive for all and, most importantly, to show the LGBTIQ+ community that we stand in solidarity with them and that we will rise to meet the challenges they continue to face. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Children, Disability and Equality (Deputy Emer Higgins)  I want to start by wishing everybody a really happy Pride and a really happy Pride month, especially those who are heading out to celebrate this weekend. Hopefully, the weather stays as fabulous as it has been the past couple of days for the Dublin Pride parade. Every year that I attend the Dublin Pride parade, I am struck by the sense of community, inclusion, fun, colour, energy and positivity. It brings the streets of Dublin to life and I wish everybody participating in it this year the very best. I think we can see that same feeling reflected in celebrations right across the country. Those celebrations are taking place right throughout this month, and that is something we can all be proud of. Pride is a really important month and a really important moment in the year, a time to celebrate and a time to reflect, as the Minister, Deputy Foley, said. It is a powerful expression of visibility, dignity and joy for the LGBTQI community but it also reminds us why it is so important that we speak up, stand together and show our solidarity and support. It is really important to recognise how far we have come as a country when it comes to supporting and including LGBTQI+ people. There is a lot to be proud of but Pride is also a reminder that it all started as a protest and that part of it is still really important too. There are still people who experience discrimination and online abuse. We are seeing more and more of that online, unfortunately. It can be incredibly damaging. It has a real impact on people, on their confidence and well-being and on how safe they feel to just be themselves. While Pride is a celebration, it is also a moment to remind ourselves to keep standing up for each other, call out hate when we see it and keep working towards an Ireland where everyone feels respected, supported and free to be who they are.  It is through that continued commitment that we are seeing real, tangible progress in our policies, our services, and in how we support people in their day-to-day lives. One area where we are seeing that progress is in transgender healthcare. Work is well under way to improve services for both adults and young people, including the development of an updated clinical model of care for gender healthcare which we expect to be completed later this year. A national clinical programme for gender healthcare working group has been set up to develop this, bringing together expertise from across the system with a clear focus on delivering more joined-up, accessible care linking primary care, community supports and specialist services in a way that works better for people.  We are also continuing to focus on challenging stigma and raising awareness. The You, Me and HIV campaign is back again this year across TV, radio and online channels. It is sharing a really clear message that effective treatment means HIV cannot be passed on. Through real life stories, this campaign is helping to build understanding and create a more supportive and informed society. We are beginning to see some impact from the campaign and recent figures point to a modest downward trend in discriminatory attitudes, with levels decreasing from 54% in late 2024 to 49% at the end of last year. We still have a way to go. More people are also saying they feel comfortable with someone living with HIV in their everyday lives, whether it is a family member, friend, neighbour or colleague. That is clear progress but it is gradual and the level of stigma remains significant. While we are making some progress in the right direction, it is clear that we need to keep moving. Changing attitudes takes time and continued effort. That is essential if we are to achieve more meaningful and lasting change. That is why it is so important that we keep having these conversations and that we keep challenging the stigma and continuing to build a society where people feel fully accepted, supported and included.  We are also seeing really positive progress in our schools. Inclusion is becoming part of everyday learning. The updated senior cycle SPHE programme, which now includes LGBTIQ+ identities, is being introduced for students in the leaving certificate applied. This is being supported at primary level through the new well-being curriculum, including SPHE, which covers topics like diversity, gender stereotypes and tackling bullying from an early age. It is because of our core values, inclusion, respect, understanding and acceptance, and that really matters. As we all know, it is these early experiences that shape how we see and treat each other, as individuals but also as a society. More broadly, we are continuing to strengthen the legal protections that protect LGBTIQ+ people from discrimination, harm and hatred. While I know progress in this area can sometimes feel slow, it is important to take the time to get it right and to make sure the laws we introduce are strong and effective and that they make a real difference in people's lives.  It is in that context that there are very clear commitments in place, including a commitment in both the programme for Government and the national LGBTIQ+ inclusion strategy, to ban conversion practices. This goes to the core of protecting people's equality and dignity. Of course, turning that commitment into something meaningful in practice takes time and careful work. That work is already well under way, with officials developing the approach and working closely with the Office of the Attorney General. Alongside that work, we have also seen important progress in other areas. Just this month, the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, recommended that the Criminal Law, Civil Law and Defence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026 include an amendment regarding historical convictions for consensual same-sex activity. In practical real terms, this amendment will introduce a process where people can apply to have a certain historical conviction for consensual same-sex activity formally disregarded. This is particularly significant when we reflect on how recent these laws are in our history. Homosexuality was only decriminalised in Ireland in 1993 following a long and hard-fought campaign led by former Senator, David Norris, and many others.  For many people those convictions did not simply disappear. They were punished for relationships that were entirely consensual, something that should never have been criminal in the first place, and they have carried that burden for years, often quietly, through their everyday lives. While we have moved forward as a society, it is important to recognise that this is not the case everywhere. At an international level, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, alongside Ireland's diplomatic missions, continues to advocate strongly for the rights of LGBTIQ+ people, including supporting the decriminalisation of homosexuality where it still exists and opposing any attempts to introduce such laws.  It is in that context, recognising the progress we have made and the work that remains, that the legislation is important. It will provide a formal process through which individuals can and will apply to have convictions disregarded and effectively nullified. It also represents a sincere recognition of the violation of individuals' human rights and dignity and acknowledgement of the lasting harm caused by the criminalisation of LGBTIQ+ people and communities more broadly around the world.  That recognition matters all the more in the context we are in today. While we have made real progress, we are seeing that progress being challenged not just at home but influenced by wider international trends, including the more polarised debates that we are seeing, especially overseas. Those conversations, in particular online, can quickly take hold and contribute to an increase in negative rhetoric, misinformation and, in some cases, harassment directed at the LGBTIQ+ community. That is why steps like this are so important, not just in terms of addressing the past but also in reaffirming the kind of society we want to be and the values of equality, dignity and respect we all stand for.  Work does not stop there. Work on the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) (Amendment) Bill, as colleagues will be aware, is now at an advanced stage, with drafting being led by the Office of Parliamentary Counsel alongside relevant Departments. I am informed it is expected to be introduced to the D\u00e1il this term. Finalising the legislation, along with establishing the assisted human reproduction regulatory authority, will be key to enabling the introduction of surrogacy leave and ensuring that families are recognised and supported and treated equally. I commend Irish Families Through Surrogacy and all those who have advocated in this space.  All this work across policy and legislation, and across seas in terms of our international engagement, shows the direction we are moving in and reflects a clear and ongoing commitment to advancing equality at home and abroad. The Department of Children, Disability and Equality leads on a number of whole-of-government equality strategies, including the national LGBTIQ+ inclusion strategy. As the core, they are about addressing the barriers that people face and making sure that everyone has the opportunity to participate fully and equally in society, regardless of their sex, race, ethnicity, social origin, religion, belief, political opinion, disability, age, sexual orientation, gender identity or sex characteristics.  These strategies also give us a way to respond to the challenges that people face, many of which are shared across different communities. They are all designed to work together. That is where an intersectional approach becomes so important. It helps us to better understand and respond to inequality in a way that reflects people's lived experience. It is important to say that those lived experiences have been central to shaping our most recent strategies, including the national LGBTIQ+ inclusion strategy. At the end of the day, it is only by listening to people, trying to understand their experiences and putting people at the centre of our policy decisions can we develop policies that are truly meaningful and will make a genuine difference. This is about listening, learning and making sure that people's experiences are reflected in the decisions that we take.  While today is an opportunity to reflect on how far we have come, it is also a reminder of the responsibility that we all share to keep moving forward. Equality is not something that we achieve once. It requires commitment, listening and action. There is much to be proud of this Pride but there is much more to do. We are moving in the right direction. I thank everyone who continues to play a part in making Ireland a more inclusive and compassionate place for everyone, all of the NGOs operating in the space and everybody who is celebrating Pride this month. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine  I welcome the groups in the Gallery who have come to listen to this debate. I hope it proves inspiring from all of us to you.  Pride, or Br\u00f3d, month began with the bravery of a demonstration in Dublin in 1974. A group of men and women protested against the archaic laws of the 1800s that criminalised homosexual relations. It was not until 1993 that it was decriminalised, marking a significant step towards LGBTQI rights in Ireland. Another significant step towards equality was taken by ICTU in 1986, which produced and implemented a radical policy for the time regarding lesbian and gay rights in the workplace. This paved the way for progressive legislation, including the hatred Act, equality in all public sector employment, sexual orientation on the basis of equality in 1993, the Equal Status Act 2000 and many other laws. I am a member of the Oireachtas rainbow caucus and we are progressing plans to mark the 40th anniversary of ICTU's progressive role in promoting equal rights. It was the beginning of a safer work environment, which made a huge difference to the lives of LGBT people of the time.  Decriminalisation, led by the indomitable Senator Norris and others, including my pal, Kieran Rose, went on for 16 years but did not expunge prior convictions. My colleague, Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh, introduced legislation to do so, known as the disregard Bill. It has passed all Stages in this Chamber and is working its way through the Seanad. It will be enacted in the next few weeks before the recess. It is another milestone in righting wrongs.  The rise of hate crime and anti-LGBTQIA+ rhetoric worldwide by bad actors is calculated to reverse hard fought human rights gains. It is a hateful and destructive narrative, fed by some world leaders. It is divisive and damages the human spirit. The manosphere narrows the mind and seeks to regress human civil rights and dignity. It is amplified by the increase in online and offline hate. It is a mammoth task to counteract this as a global political shift to the right is happening. Homophobic and transphobic rhetoric is seeping more and more into the public domain. We can never let our guard down. It needs to be called out.  In 2015, marriage equality was a momentous and proud moment for Ireland, the first country to legislate for this by a referendum of the people. Those glorious days which were celebrated and embraced seem to have dwindled since then, with Trump and his cohort and Brexit and xenophobia playing their part as civil rights are being rolled back. Br\u00f3d has come a long way. June is the month of celebration and Pride continues its success.  More work is required. Nothing is ever done and dusted. Things evolve, damage is repaired and wrongs are corrected. Ireland's transgender healthcare is a mess. The National Gender Service is not fit for purpose. Trans people deserve care based on international best practice. Everybody has the right to safety, integrity of identity and happiness. Conversion therapy, which is abhorrent and has inflicted so much suffering, is another breach of human rights. The former Sinn F\u00e9in Senator, Fintan Warfield, introduced a Bill to ban it, as did Sinn F\u00e9in Minister of Communities, Deirdre Hargey, in the Six Counties. This legislation is the antidote to the barbaric and medieval practice of conversion.  There is much to be positive about. A debate was part of a Pride event on Monday. It discussed statistics showing that we have evolved from a dark place of fear to an LGBT community that is more accepted and we are up there with the top countries in Europe. There is an accepting and welcoming involvement by all of us in shaping our society and island and respecting an Ireland for all. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  As we mark Pride, we celebrate courage and resilience. However, Pride is not simply a celebration; it is also a call to action. For decades, LGBTQI+ people across Ireland were told they were less than equal. They were criminalised and excluded. Yet, through sheer determination and solidarity, they changed society for the better. We have come a long way. We have seen marriage equality become a reality. We have seen greater visibility and acceptance. We have seen countless people being able to live openly and in a way that is true to themselves, which is something of which previous generations could only dream. That progress belongs to those who fought for it, to those who marched when it was unpopular and dangerous to do so and to those who never lived to see the equality they helped to secure.  While we celebrate progress, we must also be honest about the challenges we face today. Across Ireland and internationally, we are witnessing a disturbing rise in anti-LGBTQI+ rhetoric. Online abuse and intimidation have become all too common. Both my son and I have personal experience of being at the end of such hateful attacks. Social media platforms are awash with hateful attacks directed at LGBTQI+ individuals, particularly young people and transgender people, and their families. Behind screens, some seek to spread fear and division. Words matter and hate has consequences. LGBTQI+ people have been subject to violent attacks and, tragically, lives have been lost. We remember those who have lost their lives through murder or suicide. We remember the people who felt they had no place in the world after experiencing rejection and bullying. Every single one of those lives mattered and is a reminder that equality on paper does not always mean equality in practice.  While we have moved forward in many respects, there are areas where we have gone backwards. Rights that many believed were secure are now being questioned. Across the world, we see attempts to roll back protections, restrict healthcare and target transgender people. Those developments should concern us all. The lesson of history is clear: progress is never guaranteed and rights won through struggle can be eroded if they are not defended. As proud republicans, Sinn F\u00e9in's position is unequivocal in that the rights of LGBTQI+ people are human rights. They are not a matter for culture wars and should not be used as a political football.  I stand firmly with LGBTQI+ individuals and families. We support equality and respect, strong protections against discrimination and the right of every person to live free from fear and hate. The hatred shown by those who seek to attack or intimidate people has no place in Irish society. We reject it. We cannot stand by while any community is targeted because of who its members are or whom they love. Pride is a positive force. It is about dignity, visibility and building a society in which all people can reach their full potential and live with respect and equality. When LGBTQI+ people thrive, our communities are stronger and our society is richer. Today, let us celebrate how far we have come, honour those who paved the way and, most importantly, remember those we have lost. Let us recommit ourselves to the work that continues. The struggle for equality is not over. Solidarity matters and an Ireland of equals must mean equality for everyone. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  I welcome the opportunity to mark Pride Month. It is a time to celebrate diversity and inclusion and also to reflect on the journey that has brought us here and the work that remains to be done. Ireland has made significant progress in recent years in advancing the rights and dignity of LGBTQ+ people, including, as my colleague Deputy Devine noted, through the work of ICTU. We welcome Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh's legislation and hope it will be passed by the House in the next couple of weeks. From the historic marriage equality referendum to the greater visibility and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people across society, these achievements are a testament to the courage and determination of the activists, campaigners, families and communities who have fought tirelessly for equality and basic human rights. We recognise the contribution of LGBTQ+ people to our families, communities, workplaces, our culture and our country.  However, progress cannot be measured solely by legislative change. Last week, I met with a member of the LGBTQ+ community from County Mayo who spoke really candidly and honestly about the challenges many people continue to face, particularly in rural Ireland. Despite the advances we have made, too many LGBTQ+ people still experience isolation, discrimination and barriers to accessing the healthcare, including mental health services, they need and deserve. People living in rural communities should not have to travel long distances or face lengthy waiting lists to receive appropriate and affirming care. Everyone deserves timely access to healthcare and services that recognise and respect their identity and to mental health supports that are responsive to their experiences.  We must ensure that young people feel safe, supported and valued at an early age. I commend our schools and teachers on the vital role they play in fostering understanding, respect and inclusion. However, it is the Government's responsibility to make adequate supports available at school level and within school communities to challenge discrimination and to ensure all young people know they belong and that they are not alone.  Pride reminds us that we must continue to stand together to challenge prejudice wherever it exists and to work towards an Ireland where all people can live openly, safely and with dignity regardless of who they are or whom they love. It is beyond time that we stamped out hatred and intolerance everywhere in our society. People cannot abuse others either online or in person and then call themselves decent. A person who does that is not decent. The technology and social media companies that are making money on the back of such abuse have a responsibility to ensure it stops. Some of the material we see online, particularly in recent times, should be of concern to all of us. It is not acceptable. LGBTQ+ rights are basic human rights. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh  It is more than ten years since marriage equality was achieved. It is an achievement of which we all can be proud but it is important that we continue to strive forward until equality is achieved in every aspect of life for LGBTQI+ citizens. As we make statements on Pride in this House and as thousands take to the streets for Pride festivals around the island, it is easy to miss how much inequality still exists.  It is important that we remind ourselves every June of where Pride really again, which was on the streets of Greenwich Village in New York. In Ireland today, in places like PantiBar and The George, gay communities are free to host and curate in spaces that are run by them and for them. That was not the case in New York city in the sixties. It was after the police raids at the Stonewall Inn in Lower Manhattan in 1969 that members of the LGBTQI+ community took to the streets to fight back against the persecution of sexual minorities and to affirm their rights as human beings in a world that was trying to marginalise and repress them. That is a burden that continues to be borne to this day with the rise of fascism and the far right and the efforts to erode rights that were hard fought for and won by the LGBTQI+ community. Those reactive elements also look to discriminate against and marginalise people of colour, women and anyone who comes from abroad. Marsha P. Johnson, a key activist for LGBTQI+ rights in New York city, once said, \"No Pride for some of us without liberation for all of us\".  While Ireland may be progressive on LGBTQI+ rights in comparison with some other countries, we are far from perfect. Last month, a constituent of mine in Kildare contacted me to tell me about an ordeal she and her wife faced when seeking passports for their young twins. While both mothers are listed on the children's birth certificates and both are recognised in law as the parents of their children, the Passport Office sought court orders to explain how it is possible for two women to be on the birth certificate, asking invasive questions about the circumstances of the children's birth despite their mothers' legal parenthood. When I asked the Minister for foreign affairs to confirm whether this is standard practice for same-sex parents, the response I received from her officials was that they simply did not know. A system of institutional suspicion and shame surrounding same-sex parents in this State still exists today, just as it did historically.  Caithfidh muid, mar shocha\u00ed, a bheith i bhfad n\u00edos tuisceana\u00ed ar an bpobal LADTIA+ sa t\u00edr seo. Tar \u00e9is na mblianta fada a bheith ag troid ar son chearta p\u00f3sta, sl\u00e1inte agus fosta\u00edochta, t\u00e1 gn\u00e9ithe den eite dheis ag iarraidh f\u00e1il r\u00e9idh leo. T\u00e1 siad ag iarraidh f\u00e1il r\u00e9idh leis na cearta sin n\u00ed hamh\u00e1in don phobal LADTIA+, ach do mhn\u00e1, daoine le dath agus imircigh chomh maith. Seasaimis go l\u00e9ir an f\u00f3d ina gcoinne le ch\u00e9ile. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I too welcome everyone in the Gallery, including many former colleagues of mine who work in LGBT organisations across the country. They do phenomenal work every single day supporting people in the community. I thank them for their work; it is greatly appreciated. Pride is an important time of year and a very good celebration. It is also a protest and a time to call for progress. Sadly, we have not seen the kind of progress we need to see on these crucial issues. Sometimes when I listen to the speeches of Government Ministers I think I live in a different country. It was painful to listen to the speech by the Minister of State in which she described as one of the achievements progress on trans healthcare. We have the worst trans healthcare in all of Europe. How can a Minister of State stand in the D\u00e1il and call that an achievement and say there is progress on it when the lived reality for trans, non-binary and intersex people in this country is awful in terms of accessing basic healthcare?  Similarly, the Minister spoke about progress in terms of the community service fund. That has existed for many years now. It is basic funding to provide basic services, but it is not enough. It is a drop in the ocean compared to the need.  The Minister of State mentioned progress on HIV and while the campaign is certainly good, the Government has given up on its target of ending HIV transmissions by 2030. It has admitted it is not going to get there. That is not an achievement. We are missing the mark. We could be ending HIV transmissions in this decade if we would just commit to putting in the services, doing the rapid testing and rolling out pre-exposure prophylaxis, PrEP. We know what needs to be done but the Government is not committing to doing it. It is deeply frustrating to have members of the Government come into the House and call these achievements when the Government is utterly failing to make progress on crucial issues.  Conversion practices were mentioned. There was a commitment in the 2020 programme for Government to ban conversion practices. That is six years ago. The Minister spoke about taking time but how much time does she need? It has been six years since the Government committed to a ban. Eight other countries in Europe have done. We do not have to reinvent the wheel here. We can look at what other countries have done and implement it here. We do not have to keep waiting. We should not keep waiting and we should demand more.  Assisted human reproduction was mentioned. It has been 20 years since the Commission on Assisted Human Reproduction produced its report. Twenty years we have been waiting. The Minister said we will have legislation this term. Does she mean before the D\u00e1il recess? We need to know exactly when. Families are waiting to have their rights vindicated and the gaps in family law closed. We need to know when that legislation will be before the D\u00e1il because we have waited far too long.  The disregard legislation was mentioned. It has still not been enacted and we are still waiting for it to happen. It should have happened 33 years ago when the State decriminalised homosexuality. We have been left waiting and it not good enough. Rainbow flags outside Government Buildings are nice but what we actually want to see is progress on LGBT rights. I could come have in here and given the same speech I gave last year. I could have said exactly the same, because we have not made progress. If the Minister does not believe me, she should believe ILGA-Europe, which is holding its conference in Dublin this year. It ranks every European country on LGBT human rights and policy protections. It has ranked Ireland 14th year after year and has told us we are not making progress on this crucial issue.  If the Minister needs to know what needs to be done, she should have a look at the policy platforms set out by the Social Democrats. We have listed the LGBT rights that need to be progressed. We need to see law reform, family rights issues addressed, the Equality Acts updated, legal gender recognition for non-binary people and a ban on infant genital mutilation. Ireland scored 0% on the ILGA-Europe rankings on the rights and protections for intersex people. We need a national action plan to ban hate crime. I could go on and on. We also need to address issues of mental health. We need better funding and services. We need to tackle HIV transmission and invest in community services across the country. We need to close the remaining gaps in the law and focus on the more marginalised parts of our community. A large number of people who are LGBT are homeless or seeking international protection. We need to ensure we have support and dedicated services in place for more vulnerable members of the community. We are not making the kind of progress we should be making on these issues.  We also need to stand up to countries around the world that are rowing back on LGBT rights. We need to get a stronger stance in international and foreign affairs on these issues.  I do not want to be back here next year saying again that we have not seen the kind of progress we need. I want the Government to make progress. I will cheer it on if it advances the law reform agenda set out by the Social Democrats and others, but the Government has not made that kind of progress. It has not done the kinds of things that need to be done to improve people's lives. During this Pride, we want the Government to make commitments to advance all of these issues and more. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  I wish a happy Pride to everybody, particularly those in the Gallery who are visiting today. I welcome everybody to the House. This month is a celebration of our queer community. I want to give a shout-out to my daughter Bella, one of my favourite members of the queer community, and maybe I can also mention Anna Nolan, one of my other favourite lesbians who is in the Gallery today.  Pride is also about its origins, which was about calling out the systemic ways in which the LGBT community are marginalised. We have to do that here in Ireland and recognise the ways in which we are failing those among us who are LGBT. My colleague Deputy Rice has just given a tour de force on how exactly that is happening. It is also important for us, as legislators, to acknowledge and recognise the ways in which we can fix this and the things we can do to make progress.  I will tell a short story to illustrate three things, namely, the pride we are celebrating, the ways in which discrimination happens and what we can do to fix it. I was contacted by Joe Caslin, who is a brilliant mural artist. In the coming days, he will be unveiling a new piece, which has a trans theme and celebrates our trans community. Joe's work is hugely celebrated; it is beautiful, thought provoking and prompting. I am sure many of here will remember his work, The Claddagh Embrace , which, in the run-up to the marriage equality debate, really helped to prompt public discourse and dialogue about how we were all feeling about that debate, and also for us to see a visual representation of gay men. It was beautiful and really well received, and it is something I think we all remember. Joe is an incredibly well-respected, internationally-reputed artist. It was unfortunate for me to hear his experience. He was commissioned to do this work last year and we are at the point where it is about to be unveiled in the coming days. Unfortunately, what he came across as a street artist was a framework, when he was engaging with Dublin City Council, which was totally opaque and which did not nurture that street art as a genre or the community he represents. Instead, he was made to jump through hoops. He was given no clarity as to how the decision was being made. He was forced into decisions that he should not have had to make. It looks like a lot of these decisions are made in the planning part of the organisation rather than where they should be, which is in the artistic part of the organisation. Unfortunately, what this results in is that this art, which is such an important part of who we are, is relegated to construction hoardings and electricity boxes. This art is challenging, as it should be, and that is why we have to celebrate it. It is why I give a commitment to Joe today that I will do everything I can to resolve that and to work with my colleagues in Dublin City Council to make sure we acknowledge street art for what it is. Street art is a crucial way for us to recognise all parts of society, prompt dialogue and celebrate our queer community. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  Why is Pride important and why do we march every year? I was contemplating these questions over the last while. For as long as people are being attacked for who they are, are not able to be who they are and are targeted for their sexuality or identity, we will need to continue marching. That is why. I look forward to Saturday.  Verbal abuse of the LGBTQ+ community is a daily, casual occurrence. It is a chipping away of safety, security and belonging. An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na said there has been a rise in hate crimes over the last number of years. Not all of these were aimed at LGBTQ+ people but sexual orientation and gender identity are among the monitored motivations. Belong To has recently opened a space for young people in town to make sure they feel welcome, they can be who they are and they can be with people who will accept them for who they are. I commend Belong To and its youth workers on creating that space for those young people. Belong To has found that one in four people has been attacked physically because of their identity.  I will talk about teachers since the Minister is here. The INTO's LGBTQ+ teachers group has said that about one in five teachers in primary schools is not out in their school because they know that it would not be accepted.  Even though there are protections in the employment equality Act 2015, the reality for so many teachers is that they do not feel they can be themselves when they apply for jobs, when they are in those jobs or when they are delivering the curriculum set out by the Department and the NCCA.  The Children and Family Relationships Act did not include all children. I am thinking particularly of the families in my constituency who contacted me and who are looking for that legislation to be fully implemented. It is so important for those families. They love their children as much as everybody else and they need to be recognised like everybody else is. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Hildegarde Naughton","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","memberCode":"Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Education and Youth (Deputy Hildegarde Naughton)  Ireland has made remarkable progress in promoting and protecting the rights of LGBTQI+ people. Pride offers us a valuable moment to reflect on that journey, to celebrate the diversity, inclusion and joy that define it and to stand in solidarity with the LGBTQI+ community.  I want to acknowledge those who campaigned for equality at a time when doing so required great courage. The freedoms we recognise today were hard won and Pride is both the celebration of that progress and a reminder that our work is not yet complete.  We must ensure everyone in our society can live openly, safely and with dignity, especially our children and our young people, who deserve to grow up in environments that are supportive, inclusive and free from fear. Our schools are guided by a whole-school approach that prioritises respect, belonging and inclusion for every student. This is regardless of their background, beliefs, their sexual orientation or gender identity. Well-being sits at the heart of this approach because we know that when young people feel safe and supported, they are better able to thrive both academically and personally. However, we must also be clear eyed about the challenges that remain. Some LGBTQI+ young people still experience discrimination, bullying and isolation, both in person and online.  There can be no complacency. We must remain vigilant in protecting that progress that has been achieved and in challenging any efforts to roll back hard-won rights. Throughout my Department, we are taking concrete steps to address these issues. The cine\u00e1ltas initiative provides a comprehensive framework for preventing and tackling bullying in schools. This includes bullying related to both gender identity and sexual orientation. The b\u00ed cine\u00e1lta procedures take a child-centred partnership approach. These procedures bring together students, teachers, staff and parents to create school communities that actively prevent and address all forms of bullying.  We also continue to work closely with organisations such as Belong To, supporting initiatives like Stand Up Awareness Week. This empowers schools to foster respect and inclusion. This partnership reflects our commitment to building an education system and a society where every young person feels valued and supported.  Pride is not only a celebration; it is a call to action. It reminds us how far we have come and of the responsibility we share to protect that progress and to extend it further. Together we can ensure that Ireland remains a country that is safe, fair and inclusive for all and one in which every person can be themselves without fear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathal Crowe  I am glad to have speaking time in this debate. I was born in 1982, so I spent much of the 1990s in primary school and secondary school, finishing up in 2000. During all those years the schoolyards were, I think, tougher places than they are now. I was a teacher before I became a TD and I think the school I taught in was quite soft and inclusive. However, certainly when I was in school, you shot insults from the hip like a gunslinger. Usually those insults were homophobic and they were thrown around the schoolyard here, there and everywhere, every single day of the year. To many, they were brushed off and were water off a ducks back but years later, I met some of my schoolmates who said how those comments hurt because during those teenage adolescent years, they were struggling with their sexuality.  It was not a time when people would just come out, although nowadays some people do not come out at all. They just grow up, meet people and form relationships. They do not have to tell mom, dad or their circle of friends they are gay. Coming out is not a thing but back then coming out was a colossal thing.  For these people to be struggling in those years and for everyone around them in the schoolyard throwing these insults, that was quite typical in the 1990s. I do not fault the school system, parents or anything. I think it was a cultural thing. It is a cultural thing that, to a large degree, we have overcome. I was delighted years later when holding electoral office that I and many more people of my era were able to atone for those schoolyard days when we went out and campaigned for marriage equality.  Naively, as an ally of the LGBTQ+ community, I thought that was it. I thought that was the moon landing moment, that there is marriage equality, that it is fantastic and that anything that went before, including the illegality of homosexual relationships and the criminalisation people who were in same-sex relationships was all behind us because we recognised, as a State, that marriage equality was a thing that was to be cherished and respected but not so, as it turns out.  What I increasingly hear when people come to my clinics and when I speak with the gay community in County Clare that life is not getting easier for them and, if anything, it is getting more difficult. They attribute some of this to the rise of the far right and an intolerance of people who might have different coloured skin, a different religion or who love differently. That kind of intolerance has no place at all in modern Irish life. It is 2026 and it has no place whatsoever in modern Irish life.  Like others, I am alarmed. I am an INTO member and a teacher and I am alarmed that one fifth of my profession who identify as being LGBTQ+ have only come out in the school environment with the employers, colleagues and the school patron. That is something we need to seriously look at. Someone should feel comfortable in their workplace to be who they are. In that staff room over a cup of coffee, they should be able to talk about what they are doing with their boyfriend, girlfriend, husband or wife and what their weekend plans are and what their relationship is. All of that is quite commonplace and it should not be the case that someone feels they have to hide something from their employer or their colleagues and it is quite perverse in that regard.  It is great that in this House we have had a Taoiseach who is openly gay as well as many Members of this House who are married and very open. Maybe they do not consider it day to day but they carry huge leadership roles within the LGBTQ+ community. However, as someone who follows sport avidly, it does concern me that in elite sport, we have very few people who have felt comfortable enough to come out and be able to share with fans and supporters. They share so much of their lives now. It is not just what happens on the field, on the court or on the running track. So much of their lives is now lived out on social media or on the back pages of the newspaper that have the sporting columns. Yet, within so many sports - I will not just single out one - they too feel the need to hide. I think some of that may be down to terrace chat. To some degree, it happens in Ireland but certainly in the UK when you go to soccer matches, the insults roared from the sidelines are not acceptable. We need to support athletes, in particular, because in music and in the arts there does not seem to be those same barriers and people can be who they want to be. In politics, thankfully, in 2026, any Member here who is gay is able to be, without any judgment. There are probably idiots online who give them grief but colleagues, from all political persuasions, would not.  We are coming up to the fifth anniversary of the awful attack in August 2021 on Olympian Jack Woolley in Dublin city centre. He is someone who has represented our nation at the top level. He stood many times on the podium in his preferred sport, taekwondo. He is an outstanding young man. He was on \"Dancing with the Stars\" as well. He is an outstanding role model for young people and yet he was attacked just a couple of hundred yards down the street in Dublin for being who he is. That is wrong.  To close on a positive note, I wish all who celebrate Pride, those who are part of the LGBTQ+ community - they will have to shorten that or make it easier for us to rattle off - and those who will march at the weekend a very happy Pride. As someone who grew up in the 1990s, with a bit of maturity and getting away from that schoolyard when the bell rings and all that happens in the schoolyard, I would be absolutely thrilled and delighted if any son or daughter of mine came out in years to come and said \"Dad, I am gay, I love someone the same sex as me\" but I hope they will not have to. I hope we get to that point. A lot of people are in inclusive families where they do not have to say that. Hopefully, that is the pathway forward for most.  Those of us who sit in government and in opposition have to make sure public policy reflects the kind of inclusive values we have. One thing that jumped out from a few contributors today is the idea that four fifths of teachers - my own profession - who are gay feel they cannot say that in their work environment. That is something we need to reflect on. I am Chair of the Oireachtas education and youth committee and working in tandem with the Minister, we need to do a body of work on that because it is not acceptable. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Before I go to the next speaker, I welcome the ladies from Ballybofey and Stranorlar to the Public Gallery. They are here with Deputy Pat the Cope Gallagher. I hope they enjoy their day in the D\u00e1il with him. I also extend a very warm welcome to all of those in the Public Gallery who are here specifically for this debate. They are very welcome. We will now move to our next speaker, Deputy Graves. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ann Graves  Pride has grown from a small gathering in Dublin to a nationwide celebration of diversity and inclusion. While it is very important that we recognise and celebrate progress, we must not become complacent. There are those who would roll back the progress and drag us back to the dark and less inclusive times.  Pride has its roots in the struggle for equality and human rights but now these human rights are under attack. According to Amnesty International, attacks and hate crimes against our LGBT+ brothers and sisters have significantly increased in recent years across Europe, Britain and the United States, with transgender and gender non-conforming people being disproportionately targeted. This is really concerning.  This wave of hate does not happen in a vacuum. It is encouraged by political rhetoric and the online spreading of misinformation and lies. Unfortunately, we in Ireland are not insulated against this. An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na recorded a 12% increase in reported hate crimes. A survey by Belong To found that, sadly, one in four members of Ireland's LGBT+ community has been physically attacked due to their identity.  As politicians, we have an important role in challenging this homophobia and discrimination and to provide leadership. Pride must be more than speeches. While it is great to have the opportunity today to make our statements, simple gestures are just not enough. They need to be seen as a rallying call to challenge hate speech and misinformation. It means standing up to those who spread lies. Sinn F\u00e9in condemns these increasing attacks. We reject transphobia and homophobia in Ireland and overseas.  I want to take this opportunity to congratulate Fingal Pride, which is part of Dublin Pride. Launched in 2021, its mission is to support people and their friends and families in Fingal by organising regular events and activities throughout the county and by increasing visibility and integration. This year, the theme is, \"Beat a drum for Pride\", with an event today in Clonsilla. I wish them very success. I would also encourage everyone to come along and join the main national Pride parade this Saturday at 12.30 p.m. at the Garden of Remembrance. Sinn F\u00e9in will be there front and centre on Saturday and I hope every other political party is well represented.  Now, more than ever, we need to send out a loud, proud message: we do not tolerate homophobia or transphobia here in the Oireachtas, on the streets of Dublin, in the workplace or anywhere it raises its ugly head. Sinn F\u00e9in wants to build an inclusive, all-Ireland nation based on equal rights for all, and we will continue to work actively with the LGBT+ community across the island of Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  I welcome the statements on Pride this week. Pride is as important as it has ever been. Pride is protest and it is a call on people to stand in solidarity with those who identify or whose way of life is under attack. I pay tribute to my colleague, Senator Laura Harmon, on her work and advocacy as cathaoirleach of the rainbow caucus.  Speaking up for trans healthcare is so important, given that Ireland ranks bottom in Europe for healthcare provision. It is vital that we discuss Pride and highlight the culture war on the trans community. Many colleagues in this House, in government and in opposition, are allies who stand up to the hate levelled at trans people and I thank them for their advocacy and decency.  We have seen the resignation of a Prime Minister in the UK in recent days. Starmer's Labour Government scapegoated trans people and painted them as an enemy to women. Rather than standing up for a minority group under attack, they furthered the misery and culture war on trans people. I know for certain that trans people in the UK will be happy to see the back of him. I genuinely hope his successor stands up for trans people and trans rights and changes tack from punching down on people who simply want respect and dignity - a bare minimum expectation from a leader who hoists the red flag.  For same-sex partners, the fight for equality continues for what is an administrative change on the State's part that has brought consequences for family life and parenting. I commend the advocacy of Irish Gay Dads. Gay dads still face significant legal inequality in family law in the context of parental recognition, where many male same-sex families cannot get both parents legally recognised on their child's birth certificate from birth. I put it to the Government and the House that we passed marriage equality and changed the law. That work does not end there and I believe we have the numbers in this House to right the wrongs that still exist. I call on the Minister for justice to meet with Irish Gay Dads and begin this work.  I only have a few minutes, so I cannot acknowledge every group or person but I would also like to commend Belong To, whom I have met with and regularly engage with, in particular on its research and advocacy in protecting young gay people online. I want to mention Cork's first LGBTQ+ inclusive GAA club, Na Laochra Aeracha, who have faced significant hurdles fielding their team due to the Ladies Gaelic Football Association, LGFA, strictly enforcing 2010 city limits rather than the expanding city boundary agreed upon by councils in 2019. Because of these restricted boundaries, the club cannot meet the minimum number of players required to legally register a women's team in competitive leagues. These matters can be resolved and I encourage the association to do it. I ask now that the Minister would engage constructively with the LGFA to do so. Having inclusive teams like this in our games only serves to grow our sports. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  The point we have reached today, with Members proudly speaking on LGBT Pride, does not just happen. It comes after decades of work, bravery, courage and consistent fighting by advocates. We can never forget this. We must always remember this fact and remember the many people who broke down the closed doors and made Ireland a much more welcoming place for our LGBT comrades. They did so because it was the right thing to do and, in many cases, they walked a long and lonely road to get Ireland where we are today.  I am proud to stand here as a member of the Labour Party, which has fought so hard over the years to achieve the social progress we enjoy in this country today. It was the Labour Party that in 1993 decriminalised homosexuality. We continued fighting for equality and, in 2015, delivered same-sex marriage, a defining moment in this country's history. In 2018, we secured an official State apology for gay and bisexual men, and I want to commend the work done by my Labour Party colleague, Deputy Ged Nash, who has tirelessly worked to ensure Government disregards these convictions.  Pride is more than a celebration. It is a march founded on civil activism and protest. Pride is a collective of pivotal moments in Ireland's history that lead us to where we are now. We must remember this and how far we have come as an island. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  I welcome the visitors to the Gallery. First of all, it is a real privilege to be a gay man because you are navigating a world that was not built for you. I think most LGBT people have a heightened sense of empathy because you know, for example, that many people around the world do not have the human rights which many of us - including myself, as somebody who is privileged enough to live in Ireland - take for granted. There are so many countries around the world where it is illegal to be gay. It was illegal to be gay here until 1993. There are so many men - and they are men - who are still living with convictions for same-sex activity. You are also free from the traditions, expectations and pressures that many of my straight friends have in relation to what I call the heterosexual normality of life.  However, at the same time, the world is getting more dangerous for LGBT people, including here in Ireland. Homophobia is on the rise again. Transphobia is, unfortunately, becoming more and more normalised. It has even come into this House. It has crept in, in ways. People whom I would consider totally reasonable on loads of issues have said things on the record in this House, jollied up as concerns, that are, in effect, transphobic and dehumanising. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor Sheehan  Furthermore, I look, for example, at Belong To and the work it has done, and the 87% of teenagers who have received online harassment for being LGBT. I can even look at my own social media. Any time I talk about any of these things, I get a plethora of stuff underneath the posts and, to be honest, it is horrible but it does not particularly bother me because I know there is some young boy or young girl out there in this country at the moment who probably thinks they are better off being dead than being LGBT. The fact of the matter is that while we have come so far, we have a much further journey to travel.  We need to see the full commencement of the 2024 Act in relation to the issues around surrogacy. I have one friend who is a parent and is, effectively, legally a stranger in the lives of their children. We need to move on trans healthcare. Thankfully, by having the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, in government, we actually have somebody who genuinely gets it and wants to make a difference and will make a difference. We need to make sure that all forms of homophobia, including transphobia and biphobia, are called out and that we have zero tolerance. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert O'Donoghue  I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on this matter today. This debate is particularly poignant for me because one of the members of my staff is a member of the LGBTQ+ community. Mark, whom I work alongside every day, is someone I value enormously - he is my friend and someone whose experiences remind me that these discussions are not abstract debates. They are about real people, real lives and real journeys. Every LGBT person has their own story. Some are accepted early on in life. Others spend years wondering whether they will be accepted within their families, communities, workplaces or society itself. Some even emigrate to find that acceptance.  As a party that was founded to protect workers, Labour can be proud of that achievement. We have always understood that equality is not simply about words or aspirations. The struggle for workers\u2019 rights and the struggle for LGBTQ+ rights are not separate stories. They are part of the same stories; the belief that every person deserves dignity, equality and fair treatment. With that in mind, I want to pay tribute to former Labour Party Minister Mervyn Taylor, who was at the forefront of the struggle to ensure that equality that meant having the right to work, earn a living, provide for one's family and live with dignity, free from discrimination.  To echo Deputy Crowe, not one person from any community, background or gender who walks into their place of work should feel bullied, isolated, ignored or discriminated against. No one should walk into their place of work with anxiety or have to take a circuitous route to get to their place of work to avoid someone who might make them feel like they are not good enough.  To Mark, my staff member, and to the wider LGBTQ+ community, I hope I have done you justice to bring your experiences to life in the Chamber today. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  I welcome the opportunity to speak on this debate and to mark Pride. Pride is at the heart about people. It is about recognising the dignity, worth and equality of every person in our society. It is about ensuring that people can live their lives openly, safely and authentically without fear of discrimination, intimidation or abuse.  Ireland has come a long way. Many people in this House will remember a very different Ireland. We have made enormous progress thanks to the courage of those who spoke up, shared their stories and challenged attitudes. That is progress we should be proud of, but we cannot be complacent and we still have work to do.  I echo Deputy Sheehan's call for the commencement of the provisions in relation to surrogacy. Across Ireland and around the world, we are seeing an increase in hate-motivated incidents and a hardening of public discourse. We see examples of people being targeted because of their sexuality, gender, race, religion or simply because they are perceived to be different.  Much of this is amplified online. Social media has brought many benefits but it has also provided a platform for those who seek to divide communities, spread misinformation and pit one group against another. Too often, bad actors deliberately exploit people's fears and frustrations for their own political, ideological or financial gain. We know this division generates clicks. Anger generates engagement. Outrage generates attention. However, the consequences are very real for the people on the receiving end. We saw that recently in Fingal when my colleague, Councillor Luke Corkery, who is in the Gallery, became the target of online abuse following his post on the gorgeous rainbow road crossing which was painted by Fingal County Council in Swords. People are entitled to have views on public policy. People are entitled to agree or disagree with decisions made by local authorities. However, what is not acceptable is the personal abuse, intimidation and hostility that can follow.  Nobody should be subjected to harassment for championing and supporting inclusion, nobody should be subjected to harassment for who they are and nobody should be afraid to participate in public life because of the abuse they may receive online. The reality is that we do not have to agree with one another. In a democracy we never will, and that is a good thing. We will have different views on social issues, economic issues, local issues and national issues. Robust debate is healthy and essential, but there is a fundamental difference between disagreement and disrespect. We can challenge ideas without attacking one another. We can argue passionately for our beliefs without dehumanising those who hold different views. We can stand firmly for our values while still recognising the humanity and dignity of others. That is true when discussing Pride. It is true when discussing immigration. It is true when discussing housing. It is true when discussing termination of pregnancy or any other issue that comes before this House. The tone we set here matters. The language we use here matters. The examples that we provide matter. Public discourse does not stay in this Chamber. It influences conversations in workplaces, schools, sports clubs, community groups and online spaces throughout the country. Young people, in particular, are watching. They are learning what respectful disagreement looks like. They are learning how we treat people with whom we disagree. We have a responsibility, in every debate in this House, to ensure that the example we set is one of decency, respect and empathy. Pride gives us an opportunity to celebrate diversity and inclusion but it should also remind us of something broader, which is that a strong society is one where people can be different, hold different views and live different lives while still treating one another with respect. That is the Ireland I want to live in; an Ireland where everyone feels they belong, where nobody is targeted because of who they are and where our disagreements never come at the expense of our common humanity. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail  I welcome the opportunity to speak today as we mark Pride and reflect on the progress we have made as a country and, more importantly, the work that still lays ahead. I want to acknowledge my friends, family members and, indeed, colleagues here this afternoon as we mark Pride. It has been said here a few times already but Pride is not just a celebration; it is a restatement or statement of values. It reminds us that equality is something we must continue to advance, protect and, indeed, demand.  Ireland's journey over the past three decades has been remarkable. In fairness, it has been slow but it has happened. The decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1993 was a foundation of reform that opened the door to a more equal society. The marriage equality referendum in 2015, which many people here were involved in, was another defining moment, not just legally but culturally. It demonstrated that the Irish people believe in fairness, dignity and the right of every person to live and love openly.  However, progress does not mean that the challenges have disappeared - far from it. Recent data have shown that 22% of people in Ireland have experienced discrimination in the past few years. For LGBTQI+ communities, the figures are significantly higher; 59% of gay and lesbian people, 55% of bisexual people and 46% of trans and non-binary people report discrimination. The workplace remains the most common setting for harassment and exclusion. These numbers are stark and they reflect lived experiences that we cannot ignore.  The Government is committed to building a safe, fair and inclusive society for all and the national LGBTQI+ inclusion strategy provides a whole-of-government framework to advance equality.  Its vision is clear: a society where LGBTQI+ people can live safe, healthy and fulfilling lives, and participate fully in every aspect of Irish life. The accompanying 2025 to 2026 action plan sets out concrete deliverables across safety, rights, protections, health and well-being. From an inclusion perspective there are several areas where continued focus is essential. The first area is education. Young LGBTQI+ people deserve to feel safe, supported and respected in their schools, be that primary, secondary or third level. We know that early experiences of exclusion or bullying can have long-lasting impacts. Strengthening teacher training, embedding inclusive curriculums and ensuring that every school is a welcoming environment must remain priorities for both the Department of education and the Department of further and higher education.  The second area is healthcare and mental health supports. LGBTQI+ people continue to face barriers in accessing appropriate care and many report negative experiences when seeking support. Improving cultural competency across the health service, expanding mental health supports and ensuring timely access to gender-affirming care are all vital steps in building a system that serves everyone fairly. Surrogacy has been commented on here on a number of occasions this afternoon, as has the full commencement of the 2024 Act. That must proceed. I have friends in same-sex marriages with children and they face difficulties day in day out, in terms of recognition. That needs to be prioritised by the Minister for justice.  The third area is safety and confidence in reporting. Too many people still feel unsafe in public spaces or are reluctant to report harassment or hate crime. Strengthening community policing, which has worked well in a lot of other areas, improving reporting mechanisms and building trust between communities and the State are essential if we are to ensure that every person feels protected. As we mark Pride, let us recommit to the work ahead. Let us ensure our workplaces our respectful, our public services inclusive and our society one in which every person, regardless of who they are or whom they love, can thrive. Pride, as I said at the beginning, is a celebration, but it is also a call to action. I believe that this House working together can honour both. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  I welcome these statements on Pride and the chance to talk of where it began in Ireland and where we are now. Pride began in response to the darkest of crimes. It has now grown into a beacon of light, positivity, progressiveness and inclusivity. Pride, a banner that previously criminalised and marginalised, is now one that cohorts of people can stand behind together full of colour and hope. The first Pride parade in Ireland was in 1983 in response to the homophobic murder of Declan Flynn in Fairview Park in Dublin. There were earlier smaller marches but this was the first Pride parade.  It beggars belief that it took another decade and a case at the European Court of Human Rights brought against this State in 1988 by former Senator David Norris for the 1993 Act that gave us the decriminalisation of homosexuality in Ireland. It is almost unfathomable to me that homosexuality was illegal in my lifetime. That is why these statements on Pride are important. Even though gay rights have come a long way in a truly short period of time, we must be reminded that it is, in fact, a short period of time. Just like in previous decades, there are those out there who would row back on gay rights, ban Pride like they did in Orb\u00e1n's Hungary - an EU country - and drag this State back to the Dark Ages. We must now and always speak up on Pride, support Pride, educate people on what Pride means and on what this State was like before Pride.  We still have work to do to heal some of the sins of the past. That is why the joint Opposition Bill, originally sponsored by the now President Catherine Connolly, the Disregard of Historic Offences for Consensual Sexual Activity Between Men Bill 2025 is especially important. It is an example of a broad church of Opposition parties working together to correct a historic wrong and a stark injustice perpetrated on the gay community. It is testament to Pride that this Bill is on our legislative agenda here in the D\u00e1il. However, it cannot and should not be left to this House to speak up for Pride and for gay rights. Pride parades in every county, city and town should be supported. As a straight woman, Pride is a movement that is close to my heart. In my first year as a Louth county councillor in 2016, I cut the ribbon to officially start the first Pride celebration in Drogheda and did so for many years afterwards. I have marched in Pride parades, I have attended events, and I was and am keen to show our LGBTQI+ family, friends and neighbours that modern Ireland is friendly, welcoming and accepting.  It has also been a great honour of mine to support the Dundalk and Drogheda Outcomers and the Drogheda LGBTQ Social and Support Group in many ways over many years. They do phenomenal work in supporting the LGBTQ community in Louth. Their hard work, along with huge teams of political and non-political canvassers, including us here in Sinn F\u00e9in, drove Louth to a 63.5% yes vote in the May 2015 marriage equality referendum. It was a proud day for the wee county, a proud day for this State, and a sign of our more positive and more progressive times. However, there are still many challenges facing the LGBTQI+ community such as youth homelessness, mental health, violence and healthcare. These are all things on which we need to redouble our efforts to address. Pride seeks to address those issues as an unbelievably happy and positive social justice movement. It is actually quite unique. Everyone who supports Pride should be proud of Pride. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  I acknowledge the presence in the Gallery of representatives of many of the LGBTQ+ groups around the country. I thank them for their work and I recognise that I, and queer people all over our country, enjoy rights as a result of their efforts.  Pride remains an empowering expression of community, visibility and celebration. It is a chance for LGBTQ+ people to gather openly and proudly. However, as many of the speakers have noted, while it is an opportunity for us to reflect on how far Ireland has come in recent years, it also has to be a truthful recognition of the challenges our communities still experience. I have made the point in this Chamber and elsewhere that the trajectory of progress in Ireland has not all been one-way. In particular, the level of abuse that gay, lesbian and particularly trans people receive online, and now regularly in person as well, has spiked in recent years. Most gay people have had to deal with homophobia at some point in their lives. We learn how to deal with it, we learn how to overcome it and sometimes we learn how to ignore it. That can be a very deeply personal journey for each person involved.  For a time in the afterglow of the marriage referendum, it was felt that we had turned a corner and that Ireland had settled a fundamental question about dignity and equality. I believe, as I know many in the community do, that there has been a change, and a change for the worse, in recent years. The biggest driver of that change is the poisoning of our online spaces. It is not right that harmful and hateful content can be posted and shared so widely. It is not right that an innumerable amount of bot accounts can spread this type of hate. It is not right that a person struggling to come to terms with their own sexuality or their own gender identity is bombarded with that content. In the past, at least you could be safe from verbal homophobic abuse in your own home space, but now through the ubiquity of platforms that abuse feel inescapable. It is not because there is suddenly more hateful people in our society but because social media platforms have built systems that reward outrage, division and fear. This is not a question about simply offensive comments online; this is a question about who feels safe participating in our public life.  There are bad actors out there who would like nothing more than to stigmatise us and drive us back into the closet. We will not allow that to happen. As Dublin celebrates Pride this weekend we mark how far we have come. Let us also be clear that we will not accept any push-back on our LGBTQ+ rights; not internationally and not here in our own country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Pride has always been a protest as well as a great party and a celebration, and unfortunately there is still a lot to protest about. The Government's record on trans healthcare is really shocking. It is the worst in the European Union with record waiting lists of up to 18 years for the only public gender clinic. You cannot talk about trans rights when you cannot access trans healthcare. It is eight years since the Government's own review of the Gender Recognition Act recommended non-binary recognition. Still, the Government has done nothing. I am pleased to support Deputy Coppinger who is introducing a Bill to recognise both non-binary and intersex people for the first time. I hope everyone in the House will support it.  The rise in hate directed at the queer community by the far right is absolutely frightening. You see it. It is not just online. It is in the real world as well, with a big increase of homophobic and transphobic attacks both verbal and physical.  All of that hate is being massively amplified by toxic social media algorithms designed to increase the profits of the big tech social media companies by pushing hate, whether homophobia, transphobia, misogyny or racism. Dublin Pride, Belong To, LGBT Ireland and TENI all want recommender algorithms to be turned off by default. They are not calling for under-16s to be banned entirely from social media, which can be a vital lifeline for young queer people who may be socially isolated. A survey of young queer people in Australia before the social media ban found that more than half felt they could more be themselves online than in person. A blanket social media ban on under-16s ignores that and lets big tech off the hook as regards cleaning up its act. This is why we introduced a Private Members' Bill months ago to require social media algorithms to be turned off by default. That now needs to happen urgently. It was a bad mistake on the part of the Government to vote it down. We need to turn off the hate against queer people that is being pushed by the likes of Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and the rest of the social media bosses.  I will also say a word about the disgusting attempt to create a provocation at Pride this Saturday. A far-right Dublin councillor who is known for promoting racism and anti-immigrant hate is hosting a so-called \"march for Ireland\", coincidentally just an hour or two after Pride stops. Given his previous comments about the rainbow flag, I suspect this is designed to be a deliberate provocation. We will see, however. We will see that many more people will turn out for Pride to stand for equality and respect than those who will turn up to call for hate and discrimination against gay people, trans people, people of colour and immigrants. I believe there is a big majority on our side. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  These annual statements are important. It had to be called out when they were not tabled in June last year. However, they also have to be real. We saw remarkable progress in 2015 with the same-sex marriage referendum passing after a grassroots movement. This was followed by repeal, the Gender Recognition Act and huge social progress. However, this is a completely different decade. Hostility, transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and racism are being unleashed. Within Ireland, while the Government is not doing that or anything like it, certainly not openly, progress has stalled. Promises the Government made in terms of non-binary recognition under the Gender Recognition Act, which were part of the programme for Government, still have not been fulfilled. I hope the Government and other Opposition parties will get behind my Bill to recognise non-binary and intersex people. Non-binary people are recognised in 17 other countries. Intersex people are also recognised in other countries.  I will talk about trans healthcare. As has already been said, we have the worst trans healthcare in Europe. It has got worse even since last year's debate. A UCD report found a 13% increase in discrimination against LGBT+ people and an increase in the waiting lists. Some 23% of trans people report spending over \u20ac2,000 on healthcare because of the Government's failure. We do not have an informed consent model but a gatekeeping model. In the North, the Executive signed off on a ban on puberty blockers for teenage trans people, leading to a ban on all Assembly parties in eight Pride parades in the North this year.  While there has been progress, we can clearly see that the influence of the far right and the anti-LGBT lobby is also having an impact. Belong To has talked about the experiences of young people. I do not have time to go into all of the details but rates of depression, suicidal ideation and so on are all much higher. We should be very clear. We need to correct some of the myths that are put out there. No surgery is done on young people in this country, with the exception of surgery carried out on intersex babies as the result of a push for a strong binary in our society. We need to turn these statements into action. We need to continue to support the LGBT+ community. We need to challenge the scapegoating of trans people. We need to stand rock solid against that and against the scapegoating of other minorities. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  I am very pleased to be able to speak on this issue. It is hugely important. There is so much to be said about Pride and the importance of expressing pride and of facilitating that expression of pride but I will focus on two particular issues.  The first is conversion therapy, which is not banned in this jurisdiction. This practice is there to \"convert\" or \"cure\" people of their sexual orientation or gender identity, or tell them that it is wrong, and essentially convince them of the opposite. It is appalling. The UN recognises it as a form of torture. It is done in the totally misguided belief that these things are a choice and can be changed when we all know they are inherent in people. Conversion therapy is banned in a number of European Union countries. Malta banned it in 2016. It has also been banned outright in Germany, France, Greece, Spain, Belgium, Cyprus and Portugal. The Dutch Senate has also recently voted to pass legislation to ban so-called conversion therapy. It is not banned here, however. It is still legal in Ireland. A landmark 2023 study by Trinity College Dublin confirmed that practices aimed at changing or suppressing sexual orientation or gender identity do occur in Ireland. That honestly surprised me. I thought that people's sexual orientation was just accepted in this country and that there were not issues with it. However, I have looked into this and it is still a major issue. Two successive programmes for Government have committed to a ban but it still has not happened. The then Minister, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman, announced research into a ban on conversion therapy in 2022 and reaffirmed the Government's commitment to legislating to ban the practice but it still has not happened. There is a gap there. It is something we need to fix. We need to bring in the legislation we promised we would.  As I said, I was surprised. I am aware that it is a big problem in the United States and even elsewhere on this island. I did not think it was something that happened in this jurisdiction but, as I said, there is academic research showing that it does. Such a ban is therefore far more than symbolic. It is a real, practical and forceful measure that would prevent the genuine harm that is done to people who are subjected to this so-called therapy. It would also make an important statement to members of the LGBT community in this country, particularly young people who might be struggling with their identity or with something that is new to them, that they are as accepted as anybody else in this society by this State, that we stand with them, that they cannot be \"fixed\" and that they are valuable exactly as they are. I hope the Minister of State will take on board the need to move on that particular subject with a view to moving things along.  The second issue I will mention is hate speech. There was hate speech legislation before the previous D\u00e1il with a view to changing the law and updating the prohibition of incitement to hatred Act, which was so ineptly phrased that only 50-odd prosecutions have been taken under it. Again, you would like to think that in a modern Ireland, people who are LGBT or who present with a different gender identity would be safe from incitement to hatred and incitement to violence but they are not. Emily Bolger, who works in my office and who is incredibly valuable to us, tells me that she was abused on the street in town last night. Somebody across the street roared at her because of her sexual orientation. You would think that in 21st-century Ireland we would have moved beyond such absolutely craven nonsense but the reality is that it is still happening.  We had a Bill in these Houses that aimed to advance the prohibition of incitement to hatred and incitement to violence. That has fallen by the wayside. It shows a certain political cowardice on the part of these Houses that we cannot address this issue, which we know exists, and put in place measures that protect not just LGBT people but anybody from a set of vulnerable groups listed in the legislation. The fact that we cannot do that is a really poor reflection on the ability of this House to enforce laws that make a difference to people's quality of life. That is what it is really about. It is about the notion that members of the LGBT community or any other minority or vulnerable community would be entitled to enjoy their lives and have space to go about their business, their social lives and their work lives where they live with exactly the same entitlement to peaceable enjoyment as the Minister of State, myself or anybody else in the county has.  These two issues have been left on the table and we have not dealt with them.  The time has come to deal with them. Let us ban conversion therapies and get to grips with hate speech and actions which incite violence and hatred against people once and for all, so that everyone can feel safe and included. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peter 'Chap' Cleere  I am very grateful to be able to speak about Pride in the Chamber because it means so much to so many people. It is a celebration of love, identity, courage and hope. However, it is also a reminder of the journey that has brought us here and the responsibility we all share to continue to build a kinder, fairer and more inclusive society. I am proud to speak about Pride because it represents something much bigger that a parade or celebration. It represents the freedom to live openly, honestly and authentically, as well as the belief that every person deserves dignity, respect and the opportunity to be themselves without fear. Ireland has come a remarkable distance.  In 2015, the people of Ireland made history by becoming the first country in the world to approve marriage equality by popular vote. That referendum was about far more than changing our Constitution. It was about recognising that love is equal. It was about neighbours, families, friends and communities standing together and saying that everyone deserves the same rights, respect and opportunity to build a life with the person they love. It was one of Ireland\u2019s proudest moments, and showed the world what compassion, equality and hope can achieve.  School remains one of the toughest places in Irish life to be an LGBTQ+ young person, with three quarters of these students reporting that they feel unsafe, and half experiencing bullying. No young person should have to feel he or she has to hide who he or she is simply to feel safe. Pride gives hope to those young people and reminds them they are not alone. It tells them there is a community that accepts and values them, and believes they deserve every opportunity to live full and happy lives. Pride is equally important for parents and families because every parent wants his or her child to grow up safe, confident and accepted. Many parents of young children carry worries, not because they are anything other than immensely proud of their children, but because they know society can still be unkind at times and worry about bullying, discrimination, mental health and whether their child will be judged for simply being themselves. No parent should have to carry those fears.  One of the greatest challenges facing all young people today is social media. This has given many LGBTQ+ people the opportunity to find support, build friendships, and realise they are not alone. For many it has been life-changing but it does have another side. Too often social media rewards outrage instead of understanding. It can amplify division instead of dialogue, spread misinformation instead of truth and give a platform to abuse that would never be tolerated face to face. We are seeing, not just in Ireland but across the world, how online hostility can create a more divided society. If we want a more inclusive Ireland, we must ensure that the values we show offline are reflected online too.  We must not forget the excellent services that our youth services provide in our local communities, especially those in my own constituency, where we have the Carlow Regional Youth Services in County Carlow, and Ossory Youth in County Kilkenny. Their staff and volunteers do unbelievable work for our young people. Continued financial support for them is essential to continue to provide these irreplaceable services. The Pride festivals of counties Carlow and Kilkenny are taking place in July. They have fantastic committees of volunteers who do outstanding work to make the city of Kilkenny and county of Carlow vibrant, colourful and safe places to be.  When people march in Pride, they are not simply marching for themselves. The march for the teenager who is still afraid to tell his or her parents who he or she is, for the young person sitting in a classroom wondering if he or she will ever truly belong, and for those who still fear rejection because of who they love or how they identify. Their courage lights the way for someone else.  We must continue to work harder than ever to build a society that is truly inclusive and respectful of all those who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. Those who identify as heterosexual have an equally important role to play. Being an ally is not complicated, it means standing up against bullying, challenging prejudice, speaking with kindness and creating workplaces, schools, sports clubs and communities where everyone feels welcome. Equality is strengthened when everyone stands together. The Ireland we should strive for is one where no one feels they have to hide who they are; a country where every child grows up believing he or she belongs. It is a society where difference is celebrated rather than feared. The marriage equality referendum showed us what Ireland can be when compassion triumphs over division. Let us honour that legacy, not only during Pride month but every day of the year, because love is love and no-one should ever have to live that love in fear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  Cuirim f\u00e1ilte roimh an deis labhairt ag an d\u00edosp\u00f3ireacht seo. Pride, it is important to remember, emerged from repression, as a movement for equality. It is important that we celebrate all those who stood up and fought for change during periods when it was not easy to do so.  In Ireland and in this State, Pride emerged as a response to what was, for much of our history, a conservative and reactionary State that was hostile in the extreme to anybody who was perceived as different, particularly gay people but also often women, working-class communities, republicans, and left-wing activists. Pride emerged from the horrific, homophobic murder of Declan Flynn in 1983, which rightly caused widespread revulsion. The Sinn F\u00e9in Ernie O\u2019Malley Cumann from Drumcondra was part of that very first Pride protest in 1983, when activists marched to Fairview Park where Declan Flynn was killed. It was another ten years before homosexual acts were decriminalised and the Government only acted then having being forced to do so and having been dragged to the European courts. The reality, not always acknowledged, is that the reactionary Irish State was a harsh place for far too many people, particularly anyone who was different; as I said, gay people, single mothers, victims of abuse, those with mental health struggles and those from deprived communities.  From partition to 1983, the Irish State treated gay people as criminals and outcasts. Male homosexual acts were illegal under laws inherited from Britain. The pervasive influence of the Catholic Church hierarchy reinforced stigma, censorship and silence around homosexuality. Before decriminalisation, many gay people lived hidden lives under shame, isolation and criminalisation. This had serious mental health and indeed, often tragic outcomes. Many gay people, like others who faced discrimination, just left what they considered to be a suffocating State to build lives elsewhere. I remember when I attended my first Pride parade in Dublin in 1997, there was still a sense of repression and isolation. It is right then, that at Pride we celebrate how far we have come from the dark days when Government Ministers dismissed any suggestions of law reforms, to the point where we had a successful referendum on the recognition of same-sex marriage. At the core of that vote in that referendum was the humanity of the Irish people and an understanding of why equality matters - something that reactionary Governments had lacked in preceding decades.  We are proud of those who stood against discrimination during dark days and we are proud of those who continue to demand equality for all of our people today, including those from the LGBT+ communities. In particular, I welcome the fact that the Government has finally moved to provide for the disregard of historical convictions for homosexual activity. It should not have taken 33 years since decriminalisation to achieve this. It is further evidence that the work is not over and the aspiration of pride in, and equality for, all of our citizens remains unfinished business. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  Some 43 years ago, the killing of Declan Flynn shocked Ireland. There were thousands who marched through Dublin afterwards to refuse to accept violence against gay people. I speak today as a gay man and I am proud of the history and of the rights the gay and lesbian community has won over those years. That violence did not end in 1982. In 2022, Aidan Moffitt and Michael Snee were tragically murdered in County Sligo, because they were gay men. Their deaths are proof that hatred towards this community is not a thing of history but is indeed something of present tense.  I raise this not for sympathy but for honesty about this movement and what it was built to fight. That is exactly why I will say what many gay, lesbian and bisexual men and women say privately and that many in this House are too afraid to say plainly, that is, this movement has been hijacked. It no longer speaks for the people who built it or the people who are still at risk. We are told to make room and redefine same-sex attraction to fold into the ever-expanding list of letters that has grown so broad it has become meaningless. Does anyone in this House know at this stage what the plus even means or stands for any more? That is not progress. To my mind, that is erasure dressed up as inclusion.  I want to be direct about the flying of flags.  I truly believe that one flag should belong to all our State buildings and local authority buildings in this country and should be flown for 365 days per year. That is the Tricolour. It belongs to every citizen regardless of their sexuality, religion or political belief. State buildings should be there to unite the citizens. They should not be there to divide for competitive identity groups, each waiting for its day, week, month or turn. I remind this House that men and women died for that flag; they died in 1916. They died afterwards fighting for the right to fly that flag for a free Ireland, the flag that draped the coffins of Irish patriots and servicemen in the Defence Forces alike. They did not die so that a sitting Member of the Upper House of the Oireachtas could stand up generations later and call it a source of terror. That is not just an insult to me; it is an insult to every Member and every family who buried someone under that flag and called it a price worth paying. I will name the hypocrisy plainly. Senator Eileen Flynn told Seanad \u00c9ireann she feels terrified at the sight of the Tricolour. She is a public representative, paid for by this State and she said it in a State building that flies the flag every day. That is not principle; it is an insult to every citizen who has ever stood under that flag, and I will not pretend otherwise to keep the peace.  The people who marched for Declan Flynn did not march so that gay men and women could become a Government photo opportunity once a year. They marched for freedom to live without fear, not for the right to be paraded out as proof of what seems to be a progressive country, as it claims to be. We must not let their courage be reduced to press releases or photo opportunities. Their courage was not given so it could be borrowed by other people with other agendas. Lesbians, gays and bisexuals are citizens of this Republic, not props for other political uses. They marched once and, let me remind the House, they did not march so their fight could be handed over to others who shout the loudest. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  LGBT and Pride. Pride stands for \"respect\". I listen in this House daily and people say \"far left\" and \"far right\" and brand everything. What is wrong with just being yourself? Why do you have to be branded? Respect means that if somebody is gay, lesbian or trans, you give them respect and let them give you respect. I do not believe in all of this branding. They are people, human beings. That is what they are.  I have been attacked here and called far right and a homophobe and then people found out I have a son who is gay. Why should he be branded as gay? He is my son. He is a person. Why do we have to brand everything? Regardless of what you are or what you want to be, you should be treated with respect for whatever you want to be. If someone has a problem with that, it is they who have the problem, not the person who wants to be whatever they are. That is what it comes down to - simple respect.  As a father, grandfather and public representative, I am hopeful that, in future, regardless of what you are and how you identify as in this country or in this world, you will be safe and when you go out, you will not be targeted or identified for being different. For decades, people who had disabilities were hidden from the public. Now, and rightly so, they are part of our families, communities and workforce, where they were previously identified and hidden away. If anything can be learned from this today, it is that respect equals pride. Regardless of what you are or who you are, nobody should be labelled. You are a person, a human being, and that deserves respect from all sides, regardless of your beliefs or religion. It does not matter. I have my religion and other people have theirs. I respect theirs and they respect mine. That is what I stand for - respect. If you cannot respect other people and you have a go at other people, even down to religion, then you have the problem. I do not and it does not bother me any more. There is only one answer I have for people like that; in one ear and out two. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor)  I am pleased to join my colleagues today in marking Pride month. This is an important month to reflect on the role we each play in supporting equality and inclusion in Irish society. Pride is about visibility, dignity, respect and celebrating identity and belonging. As a Minister of State in the Department of Health, I am particularly conscious of the importance of inclusion services. Good public health policy must recognise difference and remove barriers to access. Members of the LGBT+ community can face more complex health challenges in relation to mental health, well-being and substance use. Our goal is for everybody to be equal. We want Ireland to be a place where absolutely everyone can live healthy and safe lives.  As Minister of State with responsibility for the national drugs strategy, I am determined our drug and alcohol services across the country are designed to be accessible, safe and responsive. That is why building capacity within services to understand and meet the needs of diverse communities remains a key priority for me. Our community services enhancement fund has previously helped expand access for groups which can face additional barriers, including women, minority communities and the LGBT+ community. We also know that tailored supports are important. Dedicated services for LGBT+ young people, developed through local drug and alcohol task forces, provide safe and non-judgmental spaces for support. These services focus on education, early intervention and harm reduction, empowering young people to make informed choices and to seek help when they need it.  The draft national drugs strategy for 2026 to 2029 places a strong emphasis on fairness and access and seeks to ensure services are responsive to the needs of all communities. We are also continuing to implement our national sexual health strategy and develop a model of care for HIV. This is alongside continuing to invest in PrEP and expanding access to meet demand. Every year, \u20ac6.5 million is invested in this and we also make sure we have the staffing there, which is hugely important.  Our Healthy Ireland framework is also being reviewed for the first time since 2013. I want to ensure the importance of promoting good health and well-being for our LGBT+ community is acknowledged in the framework.  Pride is a celebration of identity and community and I wish everyone who is celebrating this weekend in Dublin a happy Pride. I know Carlow is having its Pride parade on 12 July and Kilkenny's Pride celebration runs from 23 July but the parade itself will be on 25 July.  We have come a long way in Ireland in improving rights for the LGBT+ community and it is important to celebrate this. It is also important that we are mindful of those who would seek to take us backwards or say we have not done enough. I know we need to do more and we have to do so. I compliment my good friend John Paul Payne who is organising the Pride parade in Carlow with a load of volunteers. Well done to him. Carlow Regional Youth Services has a dedicated youth worker and a safe drop-in place. All these measures are important. Pride is important, not just as a celebration but as a chance to refocus our efforts on making Ireland a truly inclusive society. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I often wonder why are we having these statements on Pride? I reflect in many ways on my own political journey and I remember that, as a student and young person, I saw M\u00e1ire Geoghegan-Quinn decriminalise homosexuality. As someone who was very closeted at the time, that had a big impact on me in terms of challenging my own thinking.  My experience, even though I never hid my sexuality, was that I ended up being outed by the media in 2006. What struck home to me about that was the support I got from family, friends and my local community. I knew the real Ireland that existed then. In 2012, at the Fianna F\u00e1il Ard-Fheis, we became the second party to support marriage equality and, interestingly, the first to support same-sex adoption at the time. There was the joyous occasion of the marriage equality referendum in 2015. Now, we have a cross-party equality caucus here in Leinster House. I pay tribute to the leadership of the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, in that regard. In many ways, it is now unremarkable that we have so many Members of these Houses who identify as LGBT or as allies and no one really passes many remarks on it.  I also see this in my local community, in the likes of The Vault youth centre in Arklow, the Gorey Youth Needs group and FDYS in Gorey, all of which have LGBT support groups. I pay particular tribute to Creagh College, which has done an incredible amount of work with the LGBTQ allies' support group in the school. The school has now achieved the Belong To quality mark. Incredible work has been done by the teachers and students to ensure the school is an inclusive environment. So many schools are doing that.  I was at Gorey Library this week where, flying proudly outside the library, as indeed it is outside many libraries, is the Pride flag. It has a lot of books celebrating that and ensuring our libraries are inclusive spaces.  When I look at all that progress I wonder if we still need to discuss and raise these issues. I am certain, even hearing some of the comments in the House today, that we do. I have no intention of pulling up the ladder on my trans brothers and sisters. We still have a long way to go, particularly in areas like trans healthcare. There is a responsibility on those who have been on our own journey to be supportive of those who still feel that the State is not recognising their needs or being sufficiently supportive.  Reference has been made to social media. I am deeply concerned about Facebook. Meta is not taking sufficient action. Facebook used to be very much a community space for those who identified as LGBT to be able to come together. We are now seeing hate, particularly homophobia, discrimination and racism, being amplified. In the last year or two, in every single case where I have reported hate as being against the community guidelines that are set out, Facebook is upholding the content. There has to be a challenge made to Meta. If Facebook is taking part in the Pride parade in Dublin this weekend, it needs to look at itself and ask what it is doing as a company to be able to tackle this. Facebook, which was always an inclusive and welcoming space, has now gone nearly as bad as X in terms of fostering division and hatred.  While we are fortunate in this country that we have come so far, we need to look at what continues to go on around the world. It is abhorrent that there are still countries where same-sex relations are illegal, even where there is an assumption that one has a same-sex attraction. Not only that but there are also countries where same-sex relations remain punishable by death. We have a moral obligation to continue to call out those countries. They include Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and other parts of the world, including a number of regions in Nigeria where Sharia law is implemented.  With regard to our foreign policy, I commend the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. When it comes to making decisions on overseas development aid, we should include a requirement that citizens are respected, regardless of who they love or are purported to love. The European Union must be a union of values as well as interests. I certainly believe that we are now seeing progress in Hungary where we had seen a lot of discrimination against members of the LGBT community. For countries on the accession pathway, these values also need to be very clearly communicated. I welcome that the Pride parade in Kyiv last weekend was ten times larger than normal. There is in Ukraine a recognition that the country needs to adhere to the value of inclusiveness.  As others have said, this is a republic and we are judged by how we treat all of our citizens. For those who are LGBTQ, identify as LGBTQ or are our allies, I say \"Happy Pride\". "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Conor D. McGuinness  I am an Irish republican and I believe deeply in the principles of equality, solidarity and community. Those values shape my politics. They are also the values that exist at the heart of Pride. That is why I am proud to stand here today and every day as an ally of the LGBTQ community.  Pride is a celebration of people being able to live freely, openly, honestly and without fear. It is about recognising the dignity and worth of every person and building a society where everyone feels respected and included. T\u00e1 cearta agus comhionannas r\u00edth\u00e1bhachtach agus t\u00e1 s\u00e9 chomh t\u00e1bhachtach c\u00e9anna go dt\u00f3gfaimid pobal ina bhfeictear gach uile dhuine, ina gcloistear iad agus ina bhfuil gr\u00e1, cine\u00e1ltas agus meas mar chro\u00edl\u00e1r na beatha.  While we have made significant progress in recent decades, we know that the work is not finished. Many LGBTQ+ people continue to experience discrimination and isolation, and barriers to services continue to exist. We see this in areas such as mental health and housing in particular. Those challenges can be especially acute outside major urban centres. We know that visibility and representation matter. Knowing that you belong in your community matters. Every person, regardless of where they live, deserves to feel safe and accepted for who they are.  We should also remember that the rights enjoyed today were secured through the determination and courage of many activists. There is nothing inevitable about the progress that we enjoy today. The progress made to date was only achieved because people stood up, spoke out, demanded equality and fought for it. T\u00e1 cumhacht ar leith ag baint le saol a chaitheamh le br\u00f3d, le bheith mar chuid de phobal, le glacadh le daoine eile agus a bheith glactha ionat f\u00e9in. Is \u00e9 sin cro\u00edl\u00e1r an Bhr\u00f3id.  As republicans, we seek an Ireland based on equality and respect for all. We must continue working towards that full lived equality where every LGBTQ+ person is seen, heard, protected and valued. We know that Pride is about solidarity, community and belonging. Those principles are worth defending every single day of the year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jerry Buttimer","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Jerry-Buttimer.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht (Deputy Jerry Buttimer)  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas le gach ball a bh\u00ed p\u00e1irteach sa d\u00edosp\u00f3ireacht th\u00e1bhachtach seo. Gu\u00edm Br\u00f3d sona ar gach duine. Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an gCeann Comhairle as ceannaireacht a thabhairt do gach Ball den Teach an tseachtain seo caite mar gheall ar cheili\u00faradh Bhr\u00f3d.  I thank the Ceann Comhairle for her leadership as the custodian of the Chair of the House, for being impartial and for being a leader in building an equal and inclusive Houses of the Oireachtas. It does mean something and it is important. I thank all Members of the House for their participation in this important debate. It is not just a debate; it is an opportunity to participate in a discussion and look at where we have come from and where we are going to move to. I was struck by the varied contributions of the debate. Those people who know me will know that Harvey Milk has been a hero of mine. I was struck by these words of his:  It takes no compromise to give people their rights. It takes no money to respect the individual. It takes no political deal to give people freedom. It takes no survey to remove repression.  As we celebrate Pride and reflect on some of the contributions made in this debate, I am not being nostalgic in saying there are some key moments where we have jumped and made significant progress. This is Pride month, but not for everybody in the world, as we just heard. Just 12 months ago, in the European Union, people in Budapest were fighting a battle to have the right and ability to march, celebrate and protest.  I thank Deputy Roderic O'Gorman and the former Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, for their leadership, and the Mayor of Budapest for having the bravery to have that parade. I was in Budapest recently and people were looking forward to Pride this year. Deputy Byrne mentioned Kyiv as an example of a place where people do not just want to celebrate, but to advocate and protest too. That is what this month is about. It is about that opportunity to shine a light on the aspiration of equality for all people that was spoken about at our coffee morning and the diverse, rich lives that our Proclamation speaks about, of cherishing all of us equally. As we heard today, not everybody feels they can inhabit that space and be free to be who they are.  I thank the activists in the Gallery, those who are watching online and those who are back in the offices working to ensure we have people who will campaign, raise issues and hold us to account. I ask all Members of the Oireachtas to read this wonderful document by Transgender Equality Network of Ireland, TENI. I thank Daire Dempsey for putting it together. I also thank the Library and Research Service, which put together a comprehensive document for today's debate as well. I will come back to both those documents in a moment.  I read an article in the Irish Independent during the week by Kevin Penrose, a footballer from Tyrone. He spoke passionately about his life. He said that for a long time he resented the sport as he never thought he could truly be himself, whether it was his sexuality or a GAA player. If we take the example of sport, look at the transformative change that has taken place in our country. There is acceptance, progress and inclusivity in the GAA, soccer, rugby and athletics, and they are just examples of some sports. That shows us the progress we have made.  I also thank members of the Oireachtas equality caucus, which is led by Senator Laura Harmon, and our allies and friends. Deputies Devine and Byrne are here. These are meetings of people where there is little rancour. We have a lot of debate, we seek change and we work on a cross-party platform to deliver for people.  The backdrop to this debate has been against some of the briefings and engagements we have had. One of the questions posed in this discussion today was why we still have Pride. TENI speaks about the outstanding gaps in the law, policy and services that prevent people achieving full equality, and that is the tenor that has come through some of the debate here. Many people who do not understand and do not necessarily read about the issues think the marriage equality referendum put a roof on the house but, of course, it did not, as we all know. It was an important milestone and an extraordinary result, but we still have significant work to do.  For many of us in the community, and we heard it in the debate today, it feels like the world is in fire. Deputy Byrne listed a number of countries where no progress has been made and there is no recognition in any shape or form. I have had the privilege of being the Cathaoirleach and Leader of the Seanad, a Minister of State and a Member of the House. I have travelled the world raising matters and have been met with a frosty silence. In many ways, it reminded me of Bertie Ahern's image of playing handball against a haystack.  However, in the despair that we heard in some of the contributions, we have to be optimistic. We have to continue with our statements, which have the support of so many. If we are honest about it, there has been monumental progress and a sea change in opinion in all our political parties, which allows us to have that person-centred approach so that we can have the gender-affirming healthcare service we need to have for our trans community and friends. Deputy Byrne is right. We cannot and should never pull the ladder up. We must fight, advocate and stand with our family members, colleagues and friends because if we do not, we will fail them.  Building on the Gender Recognition Act 2015, it is clear that we need to reform and review our healthcare system, and inculcate the need not just a real pathway, but also the delivery of gender-affirming healthcare. We owe that to our trans friends, colleagues and family members.  We are thankfully in a Parliament where the majority of us are on the same page. We may be on different lines but we are on the same page, and that is a positive.  We have all met and spoken to representatives from End Discrimination in Inheritance Tax, EDIT, the reform group looking for a change to the inheritance tax. I pay tribute to James Sexton and his group on their campaign. It is an important point that it raises. Many of us who will not have children will be faced with that inheritance issue at the end of our lives. What we have or do not have is not the point. The issue is equality in the treatment of people. I hope the families EDIT represents will see a change in the policy around inheritance tax.  Reflecting on today, the theme of love, acceptance and inclusion has come across very much. I will single out two people before I conclude. Bishop Paul Colton has retired as the Church of Ireland bishop of Cork, Cloyne and Ross. At a time when it was not popular, he led. He brought people and his church along. Deputy Carthy made reference to the church earlier and I think he may have been reflecting on the leadership of the Catholic Church. Bishop Colton made a hugely positive contribution. I ask all of the churches to reflect upon their attitudes and doctrines. As a former seminarian and someone with a degree in theology, I hope they do so because language and words matter.  I also pay tribute to Kate Moynihan, who has retired as the chief executive of LINQ in Cork. A Kerry woman living and working in Cork, she did huge work building an inclusive and empowering society for women and all of us in the community. I thank her and wish her well in her retirement.  As we head towards Pride at the weekend, the flying of the rainbow flag is about visibility. It shows that we have come from Stonewall, where oppression was the order of the day, to liberation today. To the Members of the House and staff, thank you. To our friends watching and listening at home, have a good Pride. Without our friends in the Gallery, who have worked so hard and are working every day, we would be a poorer society. As we have said, Pride is a day of celebration and protest. It is a day to be enjoyed and to walk with pride. To everyone, I say \"Thank you\". Gabhaim m\u00edle bu\u00edochas, a Cheann Comhairle, for your leadership. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I thank the Minister of State. That concludes the statements on Pride. I add my own voice in wishing everyone a happy Pride weekend. May the sun continue to shine for them, so they can enjoy it all the more. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Pride: Statements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Messages from Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Select Committee on Transport has completed its consideration of the Dublin Transport Authority (Amendment) Bill 2026. It has made no amendments thereto.  The Select Committee on Transport has completed its consideration of the following Supplementary Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending on 31 2026: Vote 31 - Transport. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Messages from Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/69","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/69\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026: Second Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026: Second Stage","counts":{"speechCount":30,"speakerCount":23},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shane Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Keira Keogh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment (Deputy Niamh Smyth)  I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\"  I am very pleased to bring this Bill before the House today. The purpose of the Bill is to give full effect in Ireland to EU Regulation 2024\/1689 of the European Parliament and Council, and of the EU's Artificial Intelligence Act, which I will refer to throughout as the AI Act.  The Al Act is designed to provide a high level of protection to people's health, safety and fundamental rights and to promote the adoption of human-centric, trustworthy Al.  As with all EU regulations, the Al Act has direct legal effect across all member states. It aims to harmonise rules for Al systems across the EU, creating a single market and ensuring a consistent approach to risk, safety and fundamental rights. With those aims in mind, this Bill is a technical implementing measure. It neither adds to nor alters the obligations placed on regulated entities by the Al Act. The Bill establishes essential domestic regulatory architecture for the supervision and enforcement of the Al Act in the State.  A central feature of the Bill is the establishment of oifig intleacht shaorga na h\u00c9ireann, the Al office of Ireland, as an independent statutory body. Our new Al office will be designated as the single point of contact for our citizens at home, the European Commission and other member states. In this role it will support consistent enforcement of the Act and facilitate co-operation between competent authorities and fundamental rights bodies. The office will promote Al innovation and literacy and oversee the Al regulatory sandbox, which will foster innovation and support startups and SMEs in compliance with the Al Act.  The Bill also empowers our competent authorities and it creates a robust administrative sanctions framework. The Bill establishes a regulatory foundation on which to build trust in society for an evolution of Al that serves as a tool for people, with the ultimate aim of increasing human well-being.  Artificial intelligence is one of the defining technologies of our era. Its applications now reach into virtually every corner of the economy and society, from healthcare and financial services to the delivery of public services and much more. Al has brought remarkable benefits. It is accelerating scientific discovery, improving outcomes in medicine, expanding access to services and generating significant economic opportunity. Our national digital and Al strategy, Digital Ireland: Connecting our People, Securing our Future, sets out Ireland's ambition to be a global hub for applied Al innovation.  Al also carries real risk, however. Without appropriate oversight, it can embed and amplify discrimination, manipulate behaviour or exploit the vulnerabilities of people, posing threats to the health, safety and fundamental rights of our citizens. The Al Act, which entered into force in August 2024, is the first ever legal framework designed to address these concerns while simultaneously fostering innovation of responsible and ethical Al. The Al Act is a risk-based, horizontal regulation. It applies across all sectors of the economy, both private and public, with targeted exemptions for national defence, national security and purely personal use. Crucially, its measures are proportionate: most Al systems will give rise only to minimal risk and can be marketed and used subject to existing legislation, without additional obligations under the Al Act. This ensures that the EU and Ireland remain competitive for Al investment and innovation. The Al Act also takes into account the specific interests and needs of SMEs in terms of simplified obligations and tailored supports.  There are five main pillars to the Al Act, which set out obligations across a number of categories and uses of Al systems and models. Under prohibited practices, eight Al practices are prohibited due to the unacceptable risk they pose to European values and fundamental rights, including practices such as harmful manipulation, social scoring and real-time remote biometric identification. Given the rapid development of technology, the Al Act also provides for the list of prohibited practices to be kept under regular review. Stringent requirements apply to high-risk Al systems used in eight areas set out in the Al Act, such as biometrics and critical infrastructure. Under transparency obligations, specific requirements apply to Al systems that interact with users, generate synthetic content with risks of impersonation or enable deepfakes. Under the general purpose Al pillar, providers of general-purpose Al models face obligations to mitigate systemic risks. Enforcement will be led by the European Commission with member state co-operation. Under the enforcement pillar, member states are required to designate competent authorities to supervise and enforce the regulation of Al and to provide for significant penalties, with fines of up to \u20ac35 million or 7% of global annual turnover for the most serious infringements.  I will now speak to the importance and urgency of the legislation. Ireland has a key position in the European regulatory landscape. Eight of the leading providers of foundational Al models are established here. These are the companies at the frontier of Al development and deployment globally. Maintaining the competitiveness and viability of Ireland's digital economy is an overarching national imperative, as outlined in Programme for Government: Securing Ireland's Future, and is the driver behind a number of key commitments in the Government's recently updated national Al and digital strategy.  As Ireland assumes the Presidency of the Council of the EU, meeting our obligations under the Al Act will further strengthen our position as an EU centre of excellence and digital regulatory hub. It will also demonstrate our commitment to fostering responsible, human-centric Al innovation, both domestically and across Europe.  There is also a firm legal deadline. Enforcement of prohibited Al practices posing unacceptable risks, as set out in Article 5 of the Al Act, takes effect as of 2 August 2026. Ireland must have the necessary national supervisory and enforcement infrastructure in place by that date. I acknowledge the considerable complexity and pace of work required to reach that point. The EU allowed a comparatively short window between the Al Act entering into force and its application. The complexity of the Bill, combined with the parallel development of the EU's digital omnibus proposal, has required extraordinary efforts from my officials, the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel and the Office of the Attorney General. To them I am most grateful.  As I have noted, and as Deputies will no doubt be aware, the EU's digital omnibus on Al, a set of targeted amendments to the Al Act, was provisionally agreed in May 2026 and approved by the European Parliament in June. Ireland supports the agreed omnibus, which helps increase legal certainty and reduce administrative burden. Importantly, the omnibus extends certain implementation timelines, including for transparency obligations and high-risk Al system requirements. However, the omnibus does not extend the timeline for enforcement of prohibited Al practices under Article 5. The 2 August 2026 deadline remains firm, and this Bill addresses it directly. Any amendments to domestic legislation that may be required following formal adoption of the digital omnibus on Al will be addressed as part of phase 2 of this work in the autumn. The second phase will also provide an opportunity to further enhance Al regulation in accordance with the Al Act if required.  Having set out the context and the urgency of the Bill, I will now outline its provisions. The Bill is structured in ten Parts, with 139 sections and 4 Schedules. Its overarching policy objective is to ensure that the Al Act can be comprehensively and effectively implemented here in Ireland.  Part 1 of the Bill, comprising sections 1 to 5, inclusive, provides for the Title and commencement, key definitions, regulation-making powers, service of documents, and expenses, to provide that the costs of administering the Act are funded with the appropriate ministerial approval.  Part 2 is set out over sections 6 to 40, inclusive, and provides for the establishment of oifig IS na h\u00c9ireann and its governance structure, including appointment of its board, CEO and staff and its accountability, funding and functions. Sections 12 to 23, inclusive, are concerned specifically with matters relating to board governance, with provisions on board establishment and membership, appointment process, terms of appointment, membership of either House of the Oireachtas, remuneration, conflict of interest and others. Sections 24 to 33, inclusive, relate to the chief executive officer role and provide for the matters relating to the CEO's appointment, resignation, accountability and functions. Sections 34 to 36, inclusive, relate to the staff of oifig IS na h\u00c9ireann and confidentiality.  The appointment of staff is subject to the Public Services Management (Recruitment and Appointments) Act 2004 and the Civil Service Regulation Acts 1956 to 2005. Sections 37 to 40, inclusive, provide for funding and accountability, including the strategy statement, accounts and annual report.  Part 3, comprising sections 41 to 52, inclusive, provides for the practical operational infrastructure underpinning enforcement of the Al Act in Ireland. Section 42 designates the Al office as the national single point of contact in relation to the public and other counterparts at member state and Union levels, and to help increase organisational efficiency as required by the Al Act. Section 43 provides that the Al office will establish and maintain a national Al register, recording all instances of prohibited Al practices, serious incidents involving high-risk Al systems, and other required notifications. Transparency and public accountability are embedded from the outset. Section 46 provides for the establishment of Al regulatory sandboxes under the supervision of the Al office. SMEs and start-ups are to receive priority access. Sections 48 to 50, inclusive, make provision for real-world testing of high-risk Al systems in controlled conditions, subject to appropriate safeguards, oversight, and rights of review.  Market surveillance authorities are a key cohort of the national competent authorities required for the implementation of the Al Act and Part 4 sets out, at sections 54 to 62, inclusive, the general obligations and powers of market surveillance authorities, including the power to receive complaints from the public. Section 59 enables fundamental rights bodies to request the testing of high-risk Al systems where infringements of fundamental rights are suspected. Sections 63 and 64 are concerned with co-operation agreements of relevant market surveillance authorities. Sections 65 and 66 set out data protection matters for relevant competent authorities.  Part 5 provides market surveillance authorities with a comprehensive, structured, and proportionate enforcement toolkit, progressing from co-operative compliance measures through to coercive intervention. Authorised officers, appointed by each market surveillance authority under sections 68 to 70, inclusive, will have powers to enter premises, inspect relevant Al products and records, require the production of information, and take samples. Section 71 provides that contravention notices may be issued requiring an operator to remedy a breach. Section 72 provides that prohibition notices may be issued to stop an Al system from being placed on the market or put into service where it poses a risk or breaches the Al Act. Sections 73 and 74 provide powers for seizure, disposal, and forfeiture of unsafe Al products and, under section 75, in the most serious cases, for the removal of online content to eliminate serious risk. Section 77 provides rights of appeal to the District Court throughout.  Part 6 establishes, at sections 78 to 120, inclusive, the independent adjudication system for the imposition of administrative fines for breaches of the Al Act. Sections 79 to 86, inclusive, provide that where a market surveillance authority believes an infringement has occurred and an authorised officer has conducted an investigation, the matter may, with the authority's consent, be referred to an independent adjudicator. The administrative fines, set out in section 105, are substantial and fully aligned with fines set out under the Al Act. For public bodies, fines are capped at \u20ac1 million, in line with the data protection legislation. Section 114 provides that no administrative fine takes effect without confirmation by the High Court, which is a key procedural safeguard. Sections 107 to 109, inclusive, provide for the rights of appeal. Sections 116 to 117 provide for the nomination of adjudicators by the Al office and appointment by the Minister for Enterprise, Tourism and Employment. Section 118 expressly provides for the adjudicators\u2019 independence in the performance of their functions.  Part 7 of the Bill concerns penalties and miscellaneous provisions and, at sections 121 to 127, inclusive, sets out criminal penalties for obstruction of authorised officers, failure to comply with enforcement notices, and unauthorised disclosure of confidential information. Part 8, at sections 128 to 133, inclusive, amends the Central Bank Act 1942 to equip the Central Bank with the investigatory and sanctioning tools necessary for its role as a market surveillance authority under the Al Act. Part 9, at sections 134 to 137, inclusive, amends the Competition and Consumer Protection Act 2014 to equip the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission with the investigatory and sanctioning tools necessary for its role as a market surveillance authority under the Al Act.  Part 10, at sections 138 and 139, contains miscellaneous amendments, including consequential amendments to the Communications Regulation Act 2002, and the Freedom of Information Act 2014. Additionally, there are four Schedules governing oral hearing procedures, the assignment of adjudicators and the register of adjudicators.  In conclusion, establishing a credible and coherent Al enforcement regime in Ireland underscores our commitment to responsible Al development and is a core component of our international competitiveness offering. In this respect, the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026 matters to how Al will impact our society, our economy, our international standing and, of course, our future. It puts in place the enforcement structures that will protect people in Ireland from Al systems that pose unacceptable risks to their health, safety, and their fundamental rights. It provides the regulatory clarity and helps build the public trust that businesses, both indigenous and multinational, need to invest, operate, and grow with confidence.  As we assume the Presidency of the Council of EU, meeting our obligations under the Al Act demonstrates our commitment to responsible digital governance and to being a trusted partner in the EU. The implementing measures enabled by this legislation, including the establishment of the new Al office of Ireland, will provide an enduring foundation, strengthening our position as an EU centre of excellence and digital regulatory hub, and demonstrate our commitment to fostering and promoting responsible Al innovation and adoption both in Ireland and in Europe. It is imperative that the State has a comprehensive and robust legal basis for the full and effective implementation of the Al Act. I am confident this Bill achieves that objective in a balanced, proportionate and technically sound manner. I thank colleagues for their attention and commend the Bill to the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  Artificial intelligence is transforming our economy, workplaces and daily lives at an extraordinary pace. It offers enormous opportunities to improve public services, drive innovation and enhance productivity but it also presents serious risks that cannot be ignored. We all can recognise the benefits AI can bring to individuals, business and the public sector, be it through task automation, improved data analysis or increased efficiency and competitiveness across many sectors. However, AI is not an inherently positive force. It is a tool that can be used for good or bad, depending on the intentions of those who develop and deploy it. This is precisely why it must be properly and robustly regulated.  I welcome the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026, which will establish the national structures required to implement and enforce the EU AI Act in Ireland. It will provide the governance, supervision and enforcement framework necessary to ensure Ireland meets its obligation to have a fully operational AI regulatory regime in place by 2 August 2026. This important deadline falls during Ireland's Presidency of the European Union. As a country that has positioned itself as a major digital hub within Europe, it is important that Ireland demonstrates leadership and a clear commitment to online safety, accountability and the responsible use of emerging technologies.  The establishment of a dedicated national AI office is indeed welcome. However, its effectiveness will depend on whether it has the necessary independence, staffing and financial resources to carry out its functions properly.  It will be important that the board members of the new office collectively possess expertise in AI and computer science, human rights and equality law, trade union and workers' rights matters, consumer protection and civil society engagement. There must be no conflict between the State's deployment of AI and its role in promoting innovation and its responsibility to regulate and enforce compliance. The office must have sufficient authority and capacity to support other regulators and fundamental rights bodies. We in Sinn F\u00e9in support empowering enforcement bodies to tackle the misuse of artificial intelligence and protect citizens from harmful or unlawful practices. However, enforcement mechanisms must be matched by adequate resources, transparency and oversight.  While much of the debate around artificial intelligence focuses on innovation and competitiveness, we must not lose sight of its impact on workers. Technological advancement should improve people's lives, not undermine their livelihoods. AI should enhance human labour, not replace it. We are already witnessing the consequences of AI-driven restructuring. Recently, 720 workers in Covalen learned their jobs are to be made redundant as advances in artificial intelligence increasingly replace functions previously carried out by people. The Government cannot simply sit back and hope for the best as artificial intelligence reshapes our labour market.  A recent report by the ERSI and Department of Finance estimated that around 7% of jobs in Ireland could be displaced by AI in the short- to medium-term, the equivalent of almost 200,000 jobs. This should serve as a wake-up call that future displaced workers need meaningful protections and supports to be put in place. The new AI office must promote the development and deployment of AI systems that advance high-quality employment, regional development, social inclusion and the provision of public services. Workers must be supported to adapt to changing technologies, gain new qualifications and transition into emerging sectors. More broadly, I want the Government to develop a comprehensive national strategy to manage the impact of AI on employment and ensure workers are partners in shaping technological change, rather than casualties of it. The new AI office could contribute significantly to this work.  The Government has already stated that the Bill does not create substantive administrative obligations beyond those already contained in the EU AI Act. With this Bill we need to be careful not to over-regulate AI and add to the already large administrative burden of SMEs. It is a difference between the administrative burden and regulation that we need. We must also ensure Irish companies can access AI technology to the same extent as international competitors, otherwise, Ireland's competitiveness will be negatively impacted. Regulation must protect citizens while also enabling responsible technological development and economic growth. For Sinn F\u00e9in, regulation of AI must be guided by clear principles. Transparency is essential. AI-generated content and tools should be clearly identified where there is potential for public consumption. Copyright protections must be upheld to protect artists, designers, writers and those working in creative industries from having their original works replicated and exploited without consent.  Privacy rights cannot be compromised. AI systems must comply fully with the GDPR and all relevant data protection legislation. Personal information, including sensitive and biometric data, must be processed lawfully, fairly and transparently. Fairness is another key consideration. AI must never reinforce discrimination, inequality or social exclusion. I say that in particular in regard to access to vital public services by elderly people, people with disabilities and vulnerable people in our communities. Regular monitoring of systems is required to identify and eliminate biases, in particular where AI is used in employment decisions, recruitment processes or the delivery of public services.  We must also recognise the growing cybersecurity threats associated with artificial intelligence. AI has already been used by malicious actors to create increasingly sophisticated phishing exercises, deepfake scams and fraudulent communications. It can automate cyberattacks, identify vulnerabilities at scale and facilitate the spread of misinformation. As AI capabilities become more advanced, the potential for criminal exploitation also increases. The State must ensure that cybersecurity considerations are embedded in AI regulation and governance frameworks. Businesses, public bodies and critical infrastructure providers must be equipped to deal with these evolving threats. Therefore, public engagement and education are vitally important. The Government must be proactive in informing citizens about what artificial intelligence is, how it is being used and what risks and opportunities it presents. Public awareness campaigns, online tutorials and our education system all have a role to play in ensuring people can use these technologies safely and competently.  Particular attention must be paid to vulnerable groups in society, as I said. The rights of children and the elderly must come first and we must have meaningful engagement with people with disabilities to better understand their experiences with AI technologies. Artificial intelligence is evolving much faster than legislation. The Government must remain agile and capable of responding quickly to emerging risks and developments. Sinn F\u00e9in supports the principle of effective AI regulation. We welcome measures that protect citizens, uphold fundamental rights and ensure accountability, but regulation alone is not enough. The Government must ensure that workers are protected, citizens are informed, enforcement bodies are adequately resourced and innovation proceeds in a way that benefits society as a whole. Artificial intelligence should serve people, strengthen our communities and support our economy, while always remaining subject to democratic oversight, human judgment and public interest.  On SMEs, in particular small businesses and the use of AI, we see the use of AI in big tech. We need to be conscious of the supports that are necessary for small and medium businesses, including small retailers, in order to be able to avail of the opportunities of AI while also protecting their businesses. I want a front-loading of the supports and services that are available to SMEs. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026. It represents a significant step in establishing the institutional and enforcement framework for the EU AI Act in Ireland. It creates a new AI regulator as an independent statutory body and establishes the supervisory powers and penalty regime we need to meet our obligation to have an operational regulatory framework in place by 2 August. That deadline falls during our EU Presidency. As a digital regulatory hub, it is essential that we demonstrate our commitment to online safety.  Let me be clear from the outset. The Bill is the absolute minimum required. Meeting the deadline is not the same as meeting the moment. I ask that the Minister of State engage with the Opposition on the Bill as it goes through the Houses because there are opportunities for improvement to every aspect of it, to put it mildly. Fundamentally, I would argue that it prioritises economic competitiveness over the protection of fundamental rights. It is important that we get the Bill right.  There are systemic gaps in the regulatory architecture. The enforcement regime is not what it needs to be. The AI office needs to be more than a single point of contact. I know from different iterations of the Bill and pre-legislative scrutiny that some surveillance powers or duties were not included.  Regarding the enforcement regime and its funding and resourcing, there is a deep concern that we will end up with a regime that is incredibly fragmented and impossible to navigate. There are also very real concerns in relation to child protection. Children are a vulnerable group and there is concern to ensure their fundamental rights are protected.  It was frustrating for the members of the AI committee that we were not more central to the design of this legislation. However, we have an opportunity now to discuss it. Concerns were raised about the independence of the AI office and how it will be constituted. I am open to discussion on this but I still question the influence of the Minister, the role of the Department and the potential for executive overreach. Along with my colleagues in Sinn F\u00e9in, we will chart our own way forward on this legislation but I am flagging these issues at this Stage because they are concerns that immediately are apparent to me and I know others have raised, and will raise, similar concerns.  We in Sinn F\u00e9in recognise the immense potential of artificial intelligence. The benefits are there to see, including automation of repetitive tasks, improved accuracy in data analytics, enhanced healthcare outcomes and increased productivity. The potential at least is there for those outcomes to be achieved. However, we are equally, if not more, aware of AI's profound capacity for harm. Those aspects are very apparent and have already been seen. This is not a choice between embracing the future and protecting our citizens. It is our duty to do both and to do so with foresight and determination.  The Grok scandal some months ago, where generative AI was used to create non-consensual sexualised deepfake images of thousands of Irish women and children, was a watershed moment. It was not an event that could not be predicated. Rather, it was a direct consequence of a regulatory vacuum and the failure of successive Governments to act with the vigilance and urgency the situation demanded. The scandal exposed a profound failure to protect citizens from the predatory usage of AI. What happened was not a glitch or accident and it certainly was not acceptable.  Sinn F\u00e9in brought forward legislation to close the loophole in Coco's Law by explicitly criminalising the generation of non-consensual intimate deepfake imagery. While the Government did not oppose our Bill, it remains to be seen whether it will match our and others' commitment to this measure with meaningful action. The message must be made clear that creating such material is illegal. A zero-tolerance approach to violence against women and children means taking action when new threats emerge, not waiting for harm to be done before we intervene. The victims of such attacks deserve more than sympathy. They deserve justice. The State's approach to AI regulation cannot simply be reactive. The Government cannot afford to wait for a scandal to force its hand.  For Sinn F\u00e9in, the focus is clear. Safety, ethics and fundamental rights must be central to the design of our regulatory framework. We must ensure that technological advancement does not come at the expense of the rights and dignity of our citizens, particularly our most vulnerable and especially children. When we talk about vulnerable groups, we are talking about real people, including young girls whose images are stolen and manipulated, women whose career and reputation can be destroyed by a single malicious deepfake image and members of minority communities that are already disproportionately targeted by disinformation and algorithmic bias. These are not abstract risks. They are present dangers that require an immediate and robust response.  The Bill before us introduces enforcement powers. It will allow regulators to issue contravention notices requiring compliance, withdrawal, recall or destruction of AI systems. There is a need for improvement and enhancement of every aspect of the Bill. The Oireachtas AI committee has argued that the EU AI Act must be treated as the minimum legislative requirement, not the ceiling. As AI development moves much faster than legislation, the Government must be able to combat negative developments in a swift manner. We need regular monitoring of AI systems to ensure illegal activity, inequality, bias and discrimination can be detected and removed. That will protect citizens' rights where AI is used in decision-making, where deepfake images are circulated and when AI is used for the delivery of public services. It will ensure that racial, gender or socio-economic discrimination is prevented.  GDPR and copyright legislation must continue to apply to AI. New and stronger legislation may be necessary to ensure that AI systems process data in a lawful, fair and transparent manner. There must be proactive delivery of public information and education. We need to ensure AI is inclusive and accessible for everyone. Public campaigns, online tutorials and the education system must inform citizens about how to use AI in a safe and appropriate manner. The rights of children and young people need to come first. Operators must ensure their platforms account for child safety and protection. There must be engagement with people with disabilities and supports for older people navigating technological developments.  Adoption of AI comes with the danger of job losses, which we are already seeing in manufacturing, technology and finance. Sinn F\u00e9in advocates for strong protections to ensure technological advancements do not erode workers' rights, safety or employment security.  We must also look at the bigger picture. Sinn F\u00e9in has serious concerns about the direction of travel at EU level. The digital omnibus package significantly weakens broader AI regulations and I am proud to say our MEPs voted accordingly. We will not accept a future where safeguards are traded away in the name of simplification and where the primary focus is on facilitating innovation, profits or competition between tech bros to the neglect of fundamental rights. The drive for competitiveness cannot come at the cost of our citizens' safety. The Government must stand firm against any efforts to dilute protections. There are real questions in that regard. This Bill is an important step but it is really important to get it right. I appeal to the Minister of State to work with the Opposition to ensure that happens. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  Cuirim f\u00e1ilte roimh an mBille seo. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 thar a bheith t\u00e1bhachtach go mbeidh na dl\u00edthe cu\u00ed againn chun dul i ngleic le AI agus go mbeimid r\u00e9idh le d\u00e9ile\u00e1il leis an teicneola\u00edocht at\u00e1 romhainn.  On behalf of the Social Democrats, I welcome the Bill and the discussion on Second Stage on the regulation of AI, as provided for in the Bill. Before speaking more specifically, including on some of the amendments I have already submitted, I will comment more broadly on AI and how it is impacting on our society. That is the basis on which we are trying to regulate its use. It is what is prompting governments and regulators around the world to deal with it.  My first point concerns the definition of AI. I am a member of the artificial intelligence committee, where we obviously discuss AI, and the communications committee, where part of our role involves the regulation of technology platforms. I am my party's spokesperson on enterprise, which is the area within which regulation of AI currently sits. In addition, data protection comes within the justice sphere. We are already in a very complex arrangement whereby a lot of different bodies and different perspectives are informing the discussion. I highlight this because in some people's mind, there is still a separation between technology in the form of online platforms and social media, for example, and AI. There is an idea that they are separate but that is no longer the case.  In fact, AI is the only show in town. It has long been the case that it is powering the social media platforms. The use of artificial intelligence is why algorithms are becoming more and more effective at making their products addictive. I worked in the technology sector between 2006 and 2014 and I remember someone telling me that some of the operations in the company I worked at went from a 5% level of automation to 95% during that period.  It is the case that AI is powering the technology all around us and it is not just the robots, the more exciting stuff that people sometimes associate with it. It is powering so much of the technology that reaches deep into our lives and it really has such a broad range. Some of it affects us directly, some of it is hidden, some of it is clearly technology and some of it we do not even associate with that. For me there are three different categories of concerns this raises.  The first one is the existential risk that we do not talk about it a lot in this Chamber. It has to be acknowledged that there are ways in which the technology is developing faster than not only regulators but even the engineers themselves can keep up with. We have seen headlines recently about this tipping point that we are currently getting to where AI agents can potentially start making decisions for themselves. They can start doing things which essentially contradict the wishes of the engineers who have developed that technology but are of a self-interest basis. That is the kind of dystopian world we see in movies and TV programmes and we do not really think it is ever going to happen. That is part of what is happening now and really why we are at such a critical moment right this minute of getting a handle on this and really getting control of it.  The second huge category that artificial intelligence raises for me as a concern is in labour displacement. Only this morning I was speaking to the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, about the Covalen workers and the broader picture of AI labour displacement in Ireland. We are not dealing with this. In fact, it is for me the definition of \"head in the sand\" that when I raise this, the stock response from Government is that it knows AI is going to disrupt labour, but actually it has the potential to augment - I think that is the word the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, used earlier - it as well, that it will improve jobs and we will have better-quality jobs and more critical thinking within our roles because all the automation and more mundane and tedious tasks will be done by technology. There is nothing in the path that has got us to this point so far that gives me confidence that this will be the case. It is automation which has transformed industries around us, like taxi drivers and delivery drivers more generally as well. None of it has been good for job security, job stability or for pay and conditions of those workers. What automation has done so far is to turn various parts of our employment sectors into a gig economy and it is not to the benefit of workers. It might be to the benefit of innovation, competitiveness and profit, but it is not to the benefit of workers. Unless we acknowledge that there is going to be major labour displacement as a result of artificial intelligence and unless we are honest with ourselves as policy makers and the Government is honest with itself, then this is going to be an issue that will absolutely dominate the next ten years of politics.  Within that for me one of the most important parts is that we do not have the structures for workers' rights in this country which allow us to deal with a crisis of this size. This is the thing. It should not be a crisis. It should be that if labour is being displaced that actually we have more time as a species for leisure to actually get to do things and we get to value, for example, professions that are traditionally undervalued, like teaching or caring, which are things that cannot be automated and are predominantly done by women. That is an opportunity, but unless we acknowledge it and are honest about it, none of these things are going to happen. As is the case with so much of AI there is opportunity, but unless we are honest about the threats, we will not be able to harness that opportunity and I have major concerns about that.  The last of the three categories that I would see as being evoked in this is the harms one. Grok was an example of that. I know the Minister of State's response was to be horrified, and rightly so, at what happened earlier this year when that feature became available. However, the reality is that this feature still exists. People can access it on their phones in this country using the right technology if they wish to do so. People can still nudify images. They can still promote child sexual abuse material and image-based sexual abuse using the technology that is made available to them by a private company. Nobody has yet been prosecuted, no sanctions have been levied and nothing has actually happened. I know there is a range of different responses in terms of inquiries, investigations, prosecutions and so on. I keep being told that there is this overburdensome regulatory framework that people are trying to deal with and yet we have a clear scandal and this overly burdensome regulatory framework cannot seem to react to it in any level of real time. Maybe it will get there eventually but the reality is that we can still access these features. That is just an example of the whack-a-mole model the Government will be dealing with. Grok is one feature on one application on one platform. It abounds. We do not know yet; just like we did not anticipate nudification being the crisis that it became, we do not know where the next one is coming from. Adding to the digital omnibus, which is essentially what happened, the very specifics around nudification, is not enough, because it is not treating the fundamental issue around the business model of these tech companies and the control of power they currently have.  I agree with other speakers who have mentioned that, unfortunately, the view of this Government, which is absolutely mirrored from Brussels, is a very industry-focued lens for the governance of AI. Everything is done through the prism of business and industry, competitiveness, enterprise and innovation. Unfortunately, that is not going to work. Establishing our AI office in the Department of enterprise is, to me, the first mistake we are making in that lens being applied to the development of this governance. It does not balance effectively the rights and protections that we need to bake in to the governance of this technology. Every time I hear a Government spokesperson, they speak about those things and say that the Government has to balance it with the protections, but nothing that is being done is convincing me that this is actually happening. I am sorry but it is just not coming through in the Government's actions.  I mentioned power and this is really important. It is becoming more and more accepted that the control and power of this technology is in the hands of too few people and specifically in the hands of five or six tech broligarchs in the States. This group of people is pushing Donald Trump to lobby Brussels to deregulate so that they can have more access to the market. We have heard them say this. They do not hide this. This control and power means that we will always face this imbalance. We will always have to deal with a heavy regulatory framework to try to wrestle back that control, but there are other ways we can do so. We need to open that conversation and be honest about it.  Another thing we need to think about is the just transition. We talk about a just transition in relation to the climate but we need to add to that a digital component. We are dealing with a transformation in society because of the man-made climate change and we are also dealing with a transformation in society because of the technology we are developing. Beyond the governance, we also need to talk about it at that very fundamental, societal level. Here is the thing; if we trust AI and we actually build governance that is effective and good, there is so much to harness. There is so much benefit that we can bring to society that we can all enjoy. I have said before that algorithms are not bad things. Algorithms are bad at the moment because they are designed to keep our eyes on the screen and to addict us to the products, but they are just a maths equation. If we instead were able to repurpose those algorithms to promote well-being, equality, employment, whatever it might be, whatever the social difficulty is that we are tackling at any given time within a jurisdiction, we can actually harness these tools for good social impact. We will never be able to do that as long as the control sits in the hands of so few people who are entirely motivated by profit. Whatever the secondary missions of their companies might say, these are for-profit businesses with shareholders and all that involves. As long as that is the case, we will have issues with it.  I encourage the Minister of State and I will give her my copy of a brilliant book by Bruce Schneier titled Rewiring Democracy , which really helps to unpick this. It is a brilliant piece of work by a cybersecurity expert. I have quoted it a few times as it is such a helpful book. It is a very positive take on it and it says how this is technology that can be good in society but it will only ever work if we trust it. Otherwise, we will see a complete divergence between people paying to have technology they can trust and the rest of us swimming around in the cesspit that the Internet is increasingly becoming.  Before I go into specifics of the Bill, I want to touch on the AI Act and the digital omnibus because I do not support the digital omnibus. It has moved what could have been more promising legislation back towards light-touch regulation and that is a problem. I appreciate that there were a couple of carve-outs at the last minute, which meant that the digital omnibus was not as negative as it could have been. Nonetheless, I think it has cut the AI Act at the knees before it has even started to get going. That is a real shame. Specifically on the Bill, I want to talk about some of the amendments I have submitted, which we will get a chance to discuss further on Committee Stage.  While it is obviously welcome that we are legislating for artificial intelligence, I note it is disappointing that such vital and important legislation is being rushed because of what I can only call inadequate advanced planning. The EU AI Act applies from August and we have had years of lead-in time to legislate for that application but yet this 106-page Bill was published late last week and the deadline for amendments for Committee Stage was this morning at 11 a.m. We have to get legislation like this right and to do that we need proper parliamentary scrutiny in the establishment of new State bodies and a complex framework of regulation. We need a process that will create space and time to identify key improvements for this Bill. That is extremely difficult to do when legislation is rushed through these Houses in the manner we are seeing right now.  Governance and independence of the AI office is something I have commented on a lot. I will continue to work on it throughout the passage of this Bill and it pertains to the bulk of the amendments I have put forward. I have spoken at length about the importance of the AI office as a regulator having the appropriate independence and resources to operate. That means it can act appropriately in its functions and that it is insulated from potential corporate capture, like we saw with the environment agency in the UK, or pressure from those it seeks to regulate. It needs independence from the Government like other regulators in this country. Its board and leadership must be appointed in a transparent manner and we cannot have a situation where such a vital piece of our regulatory framework - a framework that affects all parts of Irish society - is shaped wholly by the wants and interests of the Department of enterprise.  I was the head of an independent State agency. I understand what that independence looks like and how it can make bodies so much more effective. I raised this in committee but I also encourage the Minister of State's Department to look into the Paris Principles as essentially a gold standard in independence. The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission is the only agency in the State that applies the Paris Principles and that is because it is a UN accredited body, but there is no reason we cannot apply those same standards to other bodies.  As it stands, this Bill suggests that the first board and CEO be appointed by the Minister for enterprise with little reference to any binding recommendations from the Public Appointments Service or procedures in the appointment to safeguard independence from the beginning. This is not for a caretaker or interim period before permanent appointments can be made; it is for the full five-year term. If we want independence, transparency and due regard for all sections of society that are impacted by the proposed remit of the AI office, we cannot have all that power and discretion over the people who will shape the direction and the governance of the office resting solely with the Department of, or the Minister for, enterprise.  I have concerns over that control within the Department because I have been reassured time and again by the Government that the AI office will be wholly independent. However, in my reading of this Bill I do not see how that can be the case because if we are serious about having an effective AI office and an effective administration of the AI Act, we need to address the gaps and deficiencies in this Bill and I hope we are able to discuss the constructively on Committee Stage.  The idea that the Minister can instruct the office to act as he sees fit, even with carve-outs for specific enforcement matters, undermines that independence. We cannot have an effective, independent State body that must provide clear and evidence-based views and guidance on the regulation of artificial intelligence that is not permitted to comment on Government policy when asked by Members of these Houses at Oireachtas committees. These are very basic and straightforward infringements on the potential independence of the AI office under this Bill. We have a myriad of examples of agencies and bodies in this State where these constraints are not applied and we see the benefit in ensuring accountability, boosting public confidence and giving us all clarity when it comes to legal and policy areas that need work. I want the perspective of those working in regulating AI to inform wider society, us included, but that is not possible if they are explicitly prohibited from sharing their perspective.  Next, I wish to speak to high-risk systems and ensuring that dangerous products are taken off the market. I welcome that we will eventually have a clear way of dealing with high-risk AI systems, but we need to be able to reflect reality. There are high-risk systems already in use that should not be there and waiting for legislation to catch up is just not okay. Under the digital omnibus plans that the Government has said it supports, we will be waiting another year until the regulations on these systems apply. That means we are essentially inviting companies to enter their products into an unregulated space within the next year before the regulation kicks in in 12 months' time when we will have rushed products and where developers' own safety processes will be rushed.  These are not simple, harmless products. They are explicitly the type of AI product which poses a high level of potential risk to our fundamental rights and safety. We, as a State, and particularly as a country where a lot of AI and tech companies are based, should be pushing for these safeguards for our citizens to be introduced and bedded in as soon as possible. With deepfakes, AI scams and more already affecting people, we cannot let these extremely powerful business interests have their way when it comes to the current status quo of no regulation, light-touch regulation and, in some cases, even self-regulation.  We also need to see clarity when it comes to the remit and co-ordination of market surveillance authorities and fundamental rights bodies because I understand and appreciate the reasons for adopting a distributed approach to the implementation of the EU AI Act but as others have mentioned, this approach is only effective when the national co-ordinating body, the AI office, can act as that co-ordinator effectively, that is, when it can mediate disputes between bodies where there are competing investigations and ensure smooth co-operation between the bodies involved. This is something that was flagged during pre-legislative scrutiny and which I am disappointed to see was not addressed in the Bill itself. I hope we can address this gap as the Bill proceeds through the Houses as it is absolutely vital to ensure that businesses, citizens and regulators have certainty on where they stand, how investigations proceed and who is in charge of those investigations in each case.  On that last point, it might be helpful for the Minister of State and her officials to have a look at the national preventive mechanism, NPM, structure. It is not actually legislated for here in Ireland yet. This is for the optional protocol to the convention against torture, OPCAT. It is actually quite a similar model where there is a co-ordinating body at the top and then that is co-ordinating sectoral inspectors. The legislation will eventually come in here in Ireland but there is a similar model in New Zealand that the Minister of State can examine. Basically it says that, because certain agencies will have greater powers in terms of independence, powers of publication and so on, they should then be able to co-ordinate bodies that do not have that same level of autonomy or independence. They may be further embedded into Departments, for example, but have quite specific roles to play because obviously, with the market surveillance authorities and the fundamental rights bodies identified within the Act, that is going to be the case.  As there will be a mixture of independence and autonomy within each of those agencies, making that co-ordinator as independent, autonomous and well resourced as it can be to do its job is absolutely crucial. Again, having been in a body where these functions are designated to you and assigned to you, rarely are they matched with the resources needed to do the job. We need to make sure that those fundamental rights bodies that are listed in Article 77 have the actual resources to do their job well. I have a range of amendments submitted and I look forward to discussing them on Committee Stage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail  Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire St\u00e1it as an mBille seo a thabhairt os comhair na D\u00e1la. I welcome this Bill and want to start by commending the Minister of State and her officials on the considerable work behind it. As a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Artificial Intelligence, I have watched this framework take shape and I want to state clearly that its arrival is good news. It puts our implementation of the EU AI Act on a proper statutory footing and it does so at a moment when certainty matters.  The Act requires member states to have their market surveillance authorities, MSAs, in place by August 2025 and the high-risk rules apply from August this year. Businesses, public bodies and citizens have been waiting for this clarity and this Bill begins to deliver it. There is a great deal to welcome. The establishment of Oifig Intleachta Shaorga na h\u00c9ireann will give us, for the first time, a national home for AI co-ordination, literacy and public awareness. The regulatory sandbox and the real-world testing provisions in Part 3 are genuinely pro-innovation and they give smaller Irish companies and start-ups a supervised path to develop responsibly. That balance of safeguarding people while supporting innovation is exactly the balance we should strike.  I also welcome the careful enforcement process in Parts 5 and 6 with proper notice, the right to make representations and appeals to District Court and confirmation of fines by the High Court. This is firm but fair and it respects due process. I welcome that the Bill names our fundamental rights bodies in section 53 with the Data Protection Commissioner, IHREC, Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n and An Coimisi\u00fan Toghch\u00e1in among them, with a clear route to test high-risk systems.  So, the foundations are strong and I support this Bill. I rise not to oppose it but to help strengthen it. In that collaborative spirit, there will be a need for some amendments, in my opinion, on Committee Stage and I want to set out some of those that I believe the Minister of State and her officials should be considering, and that we will consider, on Committee Stage with this House.  The first concerns the office itself. Under section 9, it is provided that Oifig Intleachta Shaorga na h\u00c9ireann co-ordinates, advises and promotes but it does not investigate, inspect or enforce.  Those powers rest with the designated sectoral authorities. I understand the logic of a distributed model and there is much to be said for drawing on the deep expertise of our existing regulators but there is a risk that the body the public will see as the national AI regulator will have no power of its own to act. There is a related point in section 42, which states, \"The Office is designated as the single point of contact\", yet Article 72 of the AI Act provides that the single point of contact is to be a market surveillance authority. I will bring an amendment to clarify the office's mandate in order that it can co-ordinate with real authority and our single point of contact will sit comfortably with Article 72. I would welcome the Minister of State's thoughts on that as well.  The second concerns co-ordination. Co-operation across several authorities and the Central Bank depends, under section 63, on voluntary co-operation agreements, and section 63(8) provides that a failure to comply with such an agreement does not invalidate the exercise of any power. Co-operation is welcome, but co-ordination that rests only on goodwill can become co-ordination on paper. Again, I will bring an amendment to provide a modest backstop so that where authorities overlap or a gap appears between them, there is a clear means to resolve it rather than hoping they agree it between themselves.  The third concern for resourcing is that Article 73 of the AI Act requires our competent authorities to have adequate technical, financial and human resources. The Bill provides for funding of the office but it is quieter on the capacity of the sectoral authorities that will carry out the enforcement on the ground. Again, I will bring an amendment for regular reports to this House on the resourcing of those designated authorities, which goes beyond the Minister of State's remit and, obviously, to the competent authorities.  I will add one further point. Section 9 provides that the office is independent while section 11 allows the Minister to direct it. I simply ask that, as the Bill progresses, we ensure such directions can never reach the operational or investigative judgment of the office.  I offer all of this in genuine partnership. This is a welcome and important Bill and I want to see it enacted and working well for the people we serve. I look forward to working with the Minister and my colleagues across the House and on the AI committee on Committee Stage, and to making the Bill even stronger. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  I commend the Minister of State on bringing this Bill to these Houses. I want to make one point about the Oireachtas AI committee. Unfortunately, as the Minister of State knows, this was a Bill that did not go to the Oireachtas AI committee; it went to the Department of enterprise committee. This is not within the Minister of State's gift but I do not believe this is the last time in these Houses that we will be regulating or legislating in the area of artificial intelligence. I think the work we have done on the AI committee demonstrates a level of knowledge and understanding in relation to these issues. In the future, we should look at making it a permanent committee that would have the role and function of scrutinising legislation like this.  Unlike some other speakers, I like the aspect of the Bill whereby the Minister can direct certain aspects of how the AI office would operate outside of the regulatory and enforcement level. I think we should be more specific as to what kinds of directions we are going to give the AI office. Right now, we know what the AI office is going to do. It is going to enforce the EU AI regulation and make sure that enterprises are compliant in relation to it. What we do not know is the role it will have in regard to advocacy. I would like to see the Bill reflecting an AI office that would work on AI literacy, for example, and would have a clear, stated function in the whole area of AI literacy for both enterprises and consumers.  Ultimately, the fears and apprehensions people have about AI are similar in industry and to people just living their daily lives. There is a great fear about what AI is going to bring and yet people, particularly in Ireland, have taken up its usage quite rapidly. In the OECD, we are even making improvements in respect of our small business adaptation, yet that fear remains and prevails. Quite clearly, this new AI office, perhaps working with Enterprise Ireland, could have a very strong role in delivering a wide literacy programme. However, AI literacy is more than just enterprise. It is in our primary and secondary schools. What role will the AI office have in respect of AI literacy everywhere?  What we are doing at a regulatory level with the AI office makes sense. We are going to have a number of competent authorities that are going to have a regulatory function as it relates to AI within their own specialist domain and yet we are still going to have this single, overarching AI office when it comes to regulation. Surely we should have the exact same thing when it comes to advocacy, understanding and AI literacy that while it might not be the AI office delivering AI literacy schemes in schools, it could be the AI office that advises and directs the Department of education. It could be the AI office - if perhaps not meeting with small business to foster greater understanding of their adaptation of AI - playing a role in working with Enterprise Ireland to ensure that Enterprise Ireland is sufficiently tooled up to provide those necessary levels of adaptation if we are going to remain competitive.  I might conclude with the wider context. It is a good thing that we are introducing laws in the area of AI. It should help grow and foster trust among the public as regards what we are doing but let us be real here. There are massive fears about the impact of AI in regard to unemployment. I know SOLAS is establishing a national skills observatory under the Department of further and higher education but there are even greater global fears. They talk about superintelligent AI being a global systemic risk. Even industry is now kind of saying the same things as people were perhaps previously in industry and are critical at the pace of growth among these frontier AI companies. They are talking about a moment similar to the nuclear arms race, where the world needs to come together and agree certain levels of norms.  Right now, the European Union, with 700 million people, has agreed certain levels of norms but if the United States, China, India and other major global powers are not all in agreement as to how we are going to regulate AI moving forward, if we are at a certain level of superintelligent AI, God knows where we will be in 20 years. If we do not deal with that challenge, everyone will suffer. I hope that in our hosting of the EU Presidency, the AI summit, our enactment of the laws today and the establishment of the AI office, that we can play some role in that major global decision and that we can use the Presidency to do that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Malcolm Byrne  I welcome this Bill and I thank the Minister of State and her officials for the work on it. I note that there was a fairly tight timeframe for amendments so I hope, on Committee Stage, there will be consideration of some of the issues here. While I commend the Minister of State on her understanding of the implications of AI right across society, I am concerned that there are certain Departments that have not yet got sufficiently up to speed and are not sufficiently invested in this area.  To speak specifically to the Bill, I welcome the fact that the AI office is, in a sense, positioning itself as a key hub and that it is going to be regarded not as a \"thou shalt not\" regulator but as an enabling body. I certainly welcome the distributed regulatory model that is proposed within this legislation. There is sector-specific expertise within all of our existing regulators and it needs to be supported to be able to ensure - for instance, if it is the Central Bank and it is dealing with a financial product but in these circumstances it is an AI-designed financial product - that it can regulate it in the same way as every other financial product. The legislation is quite silent on this and the Minister of State might respond on it, but that requires ensuring that those regulators and those who are identified within this legislation are adequately resourced both in terms of cash and, more importantly, personnel. That needs to be addressed.  In regard to some of the functions, it needs to be seen more as enabling. I welcome the provisions around the regulatory sandboxes but how this will enable businesses to safely use AI, certainly in respect of the educational role and the whole area of what I would call AI fluency, is essential.  There is one thing I would like to see in this. The Minister of State knows that when she worked with me in the context of the Online Safety and Media Regulation Act, we provided, when Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n was being established, that there would be a children and young people's advisory panel. That was established. The Minister of State knows that it worked very successfully as well with the Ombudsman for Children's Office. I think it is critical within this legislation. It should be put on a statutory basis that we have a children and young people's advisory panel and that they are very specifically identified as a vulnerable group but also people who are going to be very engaged with this technology. I ask that on Committee Stage there would be statutory provision for such a panel in the same way as we have seen with some other bodies.  I welcome the definitions in respect of the chief executive. I understand recruitment for the role is under way at the moment. On the appointment of whomever that individual will be, he or she will, in many ways, set the direction for this body. I appreciate the Minister of State will have certain roles in being able to direct how the office is going. The message that has to go out there is about how Ireland will balance support for innovation on the one hand with safe regulation on the other, and that this office will be an enabling one rather than an office that will seek to shut down the possibilities that AI provides. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Martin Kenny  The whole world has changed so much in the past decade. Certainly, the advent of AI has been a huge advance, in one sense, in respect of all of that. I recently spoke to somebody who has developed a business in the United States in regard to the whole issue of cybersecurity and AI is central to what they do in respect of all of that. We also, of course, know that it has the ability to do repetitive tasks without ever getting fatigued or tired or lazy. It can do all those things. It can assess vast amounts of data and zone into what is effective. It has huge potential and that has to be acknowledged as well. It is not a force for good only; it can also be a force for great harm. It depends on how it is used and who uses it. That is where human intent comes into play in respect of that.  That is why it is important that we have regulation. We often talk about the enforcement of regulation and enforcement to ensure that the negative is not enabled in respect of this but is disabled. It also has to have an element where the enforcement of that regulation has to be able to ensure that the positive is enabled and that there is a means by which people can easily access and bring forward ideas and prospects and that the means of using artificial intelligence are for the good and advancement of people. We must ensure we have better systems in place that can deliver for populations.  The big issue people often come up against is that it can have a very negative effect in that it will take away jobs and all of those things. That is always, of course, an aspect to it. However, there are so many of the tasks we cannot find people to do that artificial intelligence will never be able to do. I refer to healthcare and a whole range of areas where we absolutely will never be able to do any of those things without having human beings to do them who can show care and compassion and all those things. Artificial intelligence does not have that. That is what we need to acknowledge and understand.  While the whole issue and one of the big focuses in respect of this is safety and security, it is also about ensuring that the negative aspects of it are not allowed to overtake to become the dominant feature of it. So much of what we see and understand of the world of cyber and the Internet has become so negative. It has become so damaging and so evil, one could say, when we see some of the stuff that is going on there. We want to ensure that artificial intelligence is prevented from - it is already starting to do it - magnifying and exaggerating and pushing of those negative things even further. That is a big aspect of what to put in place here. Of course, there also has to be accountability, fairness and integrity around it. Having an office in place and having laws and regulations in place do not provide any of those things unless we ensure that we have the intent and we are absolutely sure we have the ability. That is about staffing. That is about funding. That is about making sure we can have the regulations but that those regulations are applied rigidly, particularly in situations where we have large groups in different parts of the world that can hide behind each other. We talk about the cloud. Where is the cloud? Where does it exist? How does one get access to it? There are big issues here that need to be dealt with. Artificial intelligence can actually be used to deal with those difficulties and that is where it needs to be done positively. The concept of this is welcome, but we have a distance to go. I am particularly concerned with regard to the funding and staffing of the offices. I am concerned that we may not have enough time to get into this race because we are in a race against very negative actors who are continually trying to undermine the very aspect of civilisation. They are trying to set us back into the past and we need to make sure that does not happen. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy George Lawlor  We in the Labour Party welcome the intent of this Bill. We are far from the first to say it, as the Minister of State knows, but the emergence of artificial intelligence could be the most significant societal and economic change we will see in our lifetimes. AI is already reshaping how decisions are made that affect people's lives - decisions about credit, employment, healthcare and policing. It is reshaping our economy, our jobs market, the way we work and, fundamentally, how we live our lives. The pace of change is only set to pick up. Sadly, we see AI almost on a daily basis attacking jobs, particularly in the tech sector. Governments around the world need to recognise the scale of the change and challenge here and respond. It is not enough to leave this transformative change in the hands of the tech giants whose sole priority will be the power and profits they hope to reap from this transformation. Regulation is essential. Democratic guard rails are essential. Governments are facing a choice, not between AI or no AI but between AI that serves the people or AI that serves the tech billionaires. The false dichotomy that some powerful interests would paint between regulation of AI, on one hand, and innovation on the other needs to be rejected. AI has the potential to deliver so much good in healthcare and how we deliver services and productivity but to unlock any of those benefits requires public trust. Securing that public trust requires effective regulation.  That is why the EU AI Act was such an important world first in beginning to put regulatory guard rails on how we use and develop artificial intelligence. It was pushed for by socialists and democrats in Europe who recognise that in the face of a new industrial revolution, we need to put the safety and well-being of citizens first. We need to keep humanity at the centre of AI policy. The EU AI Act is not perfect. There are issues around companies effectively self-designating as high-risk or otherwise and around how it fails to effectively safeguard copyright protections for creatives, to name but two. There are gaps in its definition of high-risk AI uses, such as chatbots used by children. It was, nonetheless, a hugely important step for Europe to take.  The Bill aims to implement some of the requirements on member states arising from that legislation as they relate to Ireland. That indeed is a welcome aim, and the establishment of Oifig Intleachta Shaorga na h\u00c9ireann is to be welcomed. However, we need to make sure this legislation is watertight. The regulation we put in place needs to be effective and workable.  It is in that light that while I support the ambition of the Bill, I want to raise a fundamental concern about one specific part of it. The Bill creates a system of very large financial penalties, fines that in some cases could run to tens of millions of euro or a percentage of a company\u2019s global turnover. It provides that these fines are to be determined not by a court, but by a person called an adjudicator who is appointed under the Bill and who operates within the regulatory system. The role of the courts comes late. By the time the courts are involved, the critical decisions have already been made. In Ireland, we have had systems of administrative fines in financial regulation, competition law and data protection for many years. This Bill pushes the model further than it has been pushed before. At some point, the model breaks, not as a matter of legal technicality but as a matter of basic constitutional principle. As the Minister of State knows, our Constitution is built on a separation of powers. The judicial function is reserved to the courts by Article 34 of the Constitution. It cannot be handed over to a civil servant or regulator or an adjudicator, however well-qualified and however independently they act. The reason is that the independence of the courts and the procedural protections of court proceedings are structural guarantees that protect the citizen from the power of the State. They are not formalities.  With that background in mind, let me set out the four concerns we have. The first concerns the nature of the penalties themselves. Our courts recognise that not everything attracting a financial penalty is a criminal matter in the constitutional sense. A fine imposed by Revenue for late filing of a tax return is not a criminal conviction. A penalty imposed by the Central Bank on a financial institution for a regulatory breach is not the same as a criminal prosecution. The courts have drawn a distinction, in broad terms, between penalties that are genuinely regulatory in character, aimed at securing compliance with a scheme that the regulated party has voluntarily entered and penalties that are, in substance, punitive, aimed at identifying, denouncing and punishing wrongdoing. These punishment cases require the full protection of a criminal trial before an independent court.  The difficulty with this Bill is that the fines it contemplates do not sit comfortably in the regulatory category. They can be absolutely enormous. The Al Act provides for fines of up to \u20ac35 million, or 7% of a company\u2019s total worldwide annual turnover, for the most serious of violations. For a large technology company, 7% of global turnover could be billions of euro. No court in Ireland has ever had to decide whether a penalty of that magnitude can be described as regulatory rather than punitive. I am advised that when looking at a fine that could put a company out of business entirely, the word regulatory starts to lose its meaning and the constitutional protections that attach to criminal proceedings start to apply.  There is also a difficulty with the consent argument that sometimes justifies administrative penalties in other regulated sectors. For banking and financial services, there is at least an argument that companies entering a licensed sector applied for a licence and knew what they were signing up for. That argument simply does not work here. The Al Act applies to anyone who develops, deploys or uses certain types of Al system. There is no licence to apply for. The consent justification, which has some logic in the banking context, is not available here.  I should also address directly the argument that because this Bill gives domestic effect to an EU regulation, our domestic constitutional concerns do not apply. That argument does not work in this case. The EU Al Act requires lreland to have a penalty regime, but it does not prescribe how that regime must be structured. The choice to use an adjudicator model with a court confirmation mechanism is an Irish choice, made by the Irish Government, and it falls to be assessed against the Irish Constitution. We cannot borrow the authority of EU law to excuse a domestic structural choice that EU law did not require us to make.  The second concern goes deeper and it does not depend on the penalties being characterised as criminal. Even if one accepted that these are purely administrative rather than criminal penalties, the process of imposing them may still amount to what the Constitution calls an administration of justice, and the Constitution permits only limited functions of a judicial nature to be exercised by non-judicial bodies. Our courts addressed this question directly in a case called Re Haughey in 1971. That case arose from proceedings before a D\u00e1il committee. The Supreme Court held that the label attached to a proceeding does not determine its character. What matters is the substance. Is a body making findings of fact about a named individual, with legal consequences adverse to that individual? If so, the proceeding has the character of an administration of justice. Then, the constitutional rules that govern the administration of justice apply regardless of whether the body is called a court, a committee, a tribunal, or, I would add, an adjudicator.  Applied to this Bill, the argument is straightforward. An adjudicator under Part 6 makes findings of fact on whether the company breached the Al Act and, on the basis of those findings, imposes financial consequences of enormous severity on a named legal person. That is, in substance, an administration of justice. The adjudicator is not merely advising, not merely investigating or not merely recommending; the adjudicator is determining. I am advised that a body that determines justiciable controversies with serious consequences for individual rights is administering justice, whatever it is called. Again, by looking to the size of the available penalties, it is very hard to see how this could be classed as a limited exercise of a judicial function.  The third concern arises directly from what the Supreme Court said in Re Haughey about the mechanism used in that case to involve the courts. The D\u00e1il committee in that case could certify a person for contempt to the High Court, which then had jurisdiction to punish. The argument was made that this saved the constitutional position. The committee investigated and certified that the court punished, therefore. the judicial function was exercised by the court after all. The Supreme Court rejected that argument, however. It said that what was being sent to the High Court was not a case to be tried. The trial, such as it was, had already taken place. What was being sent was effectively a person to be sentenced, and a sentencing hearing before a court that has not itself tried the matter is not an administration of justice. The court was being used as a rubber stamp, not as a decision maker.  We can compare that with the confirmation mechanism in this Bill. Under sections 110 to 114, when a fine imposed by an adjudicator is not appealed, the market surveillance authority must apply to the High Court to confirm it. The High Court must confirm unless there is a fundamental and manifest error of law or the fine is clearly excessive or disproportionate. The evidence available to the High Court is limited to what is before the adjudicator and the adjudicator\u2019s findings are binding. The High Court does not rehear the case and it does not make its own findings of fact. It reviews, on a deferential standard, a determination already made by someone else. The parallel with Re Haughey is exact. The adjudicator tries and the High Court merely confirms. The findings of fact are not revisited. The evidence is not re-examined. That is a sentencing hearing, not a trial. I am also advised that it is open to precisely the same constitutional objection that the Supreme Court upheld in Re Haughey, in that the court is being given a jurisdiction to endorse a determination made elsewhere and not a jurisdiction to determine anything itself. If the process before the adjudicator is constitutionally infirm for that reason, nothing the High Court does at the confirmation stage can cure it. A flawed process does not become constitutionally valid because a court subsequently endorses it.  The fourth concern is that constitutionally it is for the court, and the court alone, to make findings of fact in proceedings with serious consequences. A statute that requires a court to accept as established a fact found by someone who is not a judge, in proceedings that were not a trial, is removing the fact-finding function from the court and that, the Supreme Court said, is unconstitutional. I am advised that the confirmation mechanism in this Bill is open to precisely this objection. The High Court at the confirmation stage is bound to accept the adjudicator\u2019s findings of fact. It cannot go behind them. It cannot hear fresh evidence that contradicts them. It must treat those findings as established and proceed to confirm the fine on that basis, unless the error is fundamental and manifest. The facts have been found elsewhere by a non-judicial body and the court is required to accept them. The High Court cannot be given a jurisdiction that presupposes the facts have already been found.  Taken together, these four concerns point in the same direction. The confirmation mechanism is not a genuine exercise of the judicial function. It is a review of a determination made elsewhere, on a deferential standard with a closed evidential record, in respect of findings of fact that the court is not permitted to revisit. That is not what the Constitution means by the administration of justice. I am also advised that a court exercising that kind of jurisdiction is not curing whatever constitutional deficiency existed in the adjudication process. It is merely adding a judicial gloss to a process that remains, in substance, non-judicial.  I invite the Minister of State in her response to engage with the constitutional question directly. These are not peripheral concerns. They go to the central mechanism by which this Bill proposes to enforce the Al Act in Ireland. I appreciate the Bill has been carefully prepared, but careful preparation and constitutional validity are not always the same thing, and on this particular point the Bill, as drafted, is on genuinely uncertain ground. We absolutely need to get this right. Al, as we all know, is rapidly changing the world around us. Regulation is vital to ensure that ordinary people are protected and proper guardrails are in place. That idea is not in conflict with innovation or adoption; it is essential to it. Europe has led the way globally on this. When we are now looking to implement those regulatory guardrails in our own State, we need to be certain that we are on firm ground. It is too important to get wrong. As I said at the outset, we in the Labour Party welcome the intent of the Bill, but we simply need to get it absolutely watertight and right.  It is far too important not to. I look forward to the Minister of State's response. I commend the principles of the Bill to the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Erin McGreehan  I very much welcome the opportunity to speak on the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill. I commend the Minister of State on bringing forward such important legislation and congratulate her on all the work she does in her brief. I wish her continued success in this area.  As we all know, artificial intelligence is transforming how we live, work, learn and access services. It offers enormous opportunities in healthcare, education, scientific research, agriculture, and business innovation and productivity. However, those opportunities come with significant responsibilities. This Bill provides a necessary framework to implement and enforce the EU Artificial Intelligence Act in Ireland. It establishes the AI office in Ireland as an independent statutory body and ensures that appropriate oversight, accountability and enforcement mechanisms are in place. Importantly, it does not create additional burdens beyond those already provided for under EU law. Rather, it ensures that Ireland can meet its obligations effectively.  As Chair of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, I particularly welcome the establishment of the AI office. I believe its role should be extended beyond regulation alone. The office should become a national co-ordination hub, working closely with organisations like Skillnet Ireland, Enterprise Ireland, our local enterprise offices, higher education institutions, further education and training providers, schools and industry partners to drive AI awareness, adoption and skills development across our entire society.  The reality is that AI is not something for the future; it is already here. Our challenge is to ensure that individuals, businesses, public services and communities are prepared. We need to build AI literacy across the population so that people understand both the opportunities and all the risks. At the same time, we must ensure that workers, students and enterprises have the practical skills needed to harness the benefits of these technologies. If we get this right, AI could help us improve public services, support innovation, increase productivity and deliver breakthroughs in research, healthcare and education. However, those benefits will only be realised if we invest in people and equip them with the confidence and skills to engage with AI effectively.  We must ensure transparency, accountability and inclusion remain at the heart of all of our approaches. New technology must empower people and not exclude them. That means paying particular attention to accessibility, disability inclusion and equal opportunities as AI systems become embedded in everyday life. AI must always serve the public good. Innovation cannot come at the expense of public trust, child safety or the rights of vulnerable people. Technology companies must be properly regulated and high-risk AI systems carefully monitored. We must also ensure that workers whose jobs may be affected by AI are supported to retrain and adapt, including through greater use of the National Training Fund to provide flexible upskilling and reskilling opportunities.  Ireland has a huge opportunity. I am hugely ambitious about our role in this. We can be a leader not only in AI innovation, but also in AI readiness. This legislation is a really important step in building the foundations for that future. I am very pleased to support it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Clendennen  I welcome this Bill. It underscores Ireland's commitment, under EU direction, to a future where technological advancement will be inextricably linked to ethical governance and societal well-being. The commitment to implementing this through the EU AI Act is about protecting citizens and building trust around AI. More often than not, we hear too much doom, gloom and negativity around AI. We hear about the threats it poses rather than the opportunities it presents. We must focus on ensuring the regulations are robust in that regard. The context makes this Bill not a mere legislative formality, but our collective national response to artificial intelligence as we ensure that we implement the EU AI Act effectively and responsibly. I want to focus particularly on responsibility this evening.  We have discussed SMEs at length in the enterprise committee. Let us look at some statistics. SMEs are the backbone of the Irish economy, yet evidence shows a growing divide in AI adoption between larger companies and smaller firms. Recent data from the CSO shows that while 58% of large enterprises are using AI, only 17% of small enterprises are doing so. Ireland currently ranks only mid-table in Europe for business AI adoption. If we are serious about competitiveness, we must close that gap.  Should the AI office have a stronger statutory mandate than is currently provided for in the Bill? At present, the legislation contains extensive provisions regarding investigations, sanctions and enforcement. By contrast, there is no real focus on supporting businesses to adopt AI responsibly and successfully. The AI office should have a stronger enterprise support mandate. This would include providing practical guidance to businesses on compliance, delivering training and awareness programmes, advising Government and State agencies on measures to increase SME adoption, and promoting innovation, competitiveness and responsible deployment. We must be cognisant of the fact that regulation and innovation are not competing objectives. If implemented appropriately, they complement each other.  The Data Protection Commission could also have a greater role. It has protected citizens and their rights through the enforcement of the GDPR. However, as AI becomes more deeply integrated into business operations, organisations increasingly need practical guidelines and guidance on how to comply with both data protection requirements and emerging AI rules. Strengthening the DPC's mandate to include a clearer business support and guidance function would complement rather than diminish its independence as a regulator. I encourage the Minister of State to look at the amendments to strengthen the enterprise support mandates of the proposed AI office and the DPC.  I acknowledge our position globally. We will ensure that protections in high-risk areas such as biometrics, education and employment are robustly implemented by the December 2027 deadline. Considering our location and that Ireland is home to eight of the leading foundational AI model providers globally, we are uniquely positioned to be a hub for AI innovation. Implementing a functional, clear and effective regulatory framework will not only meet our EU obligations, but also strengthen our position as a leader in responsible AI development, which will, in turn, attract further investment and foster economic growth.  This Bill demonstrates our commitment to online safety and the promotion of trustworthy AI innovation. I commend the Minister of State on bringing it to the House. I very much welcome it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Before I call on our next speaker, I welcome all of those in the Public Gallery. I hope they are enjoying the debate and finding it informative. They are very welcome to Leinster House. I particularly welcome Peter and Briege Rust from Dundalk, who are here with Deputy McGreehan, and Deputy Cormac Devlin's friends and neighbours. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for that. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026. As the Taoiseach noted, the accelerating growth of AI is both a challenge and an opportunity. AI is here, being used daily by businesses and individuals, and it will continue to develop. It is not something we can ignore. AI-related economic activity is already beginning to materially influence the Irish economy.  I support the Government\u2019s ambition to make Ireland a global hub for applied AI innovation. The Bill implements European legislation in this area, establishing the AI office of Ireland, which will co-ordinate efforts to supervise the sector. In itself, legislation is insufficient. We learned that from the failures relating to the banking sector and social media policy. Given Ireland\u2019s position as a base for many companies, it is important that we support the sector, but it is also critical that regulators take an active role, proactively working alongside major providers to ensure algorithms and products benefit the public good and do not create undue risk.  More broadly, I will raise the issue of access. Together, the EU and UK comprise a market of almost 520 million people with a combined GDP of almost \u20ac24 trillion. We need to see a far more robust response from the European Commission to ensure businesses and individuals have access to the latest software to remain competitive. I hope Ireland will take this up as a priority for the upcoming Presidency. Europe cannot be allowed to fall behind or be locked out of essential advanced products and services. Together, the US, EU and UK comprise the largest global market by far. It is in everyone\u2019s interest that we work together, remain competitive and deal with the challenges and opportunities presented by the growth of AI. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Donnelly  I welcome the Bill and the opportunity to speak on it. It is critically important. AI is something we use every single day, whether we know it or not. Many of the applications we use have a major component of AI. In many areas it has a really useful purpose. Students and workers use it, and people in here use it on a daily basis. As I said, AI has a really useful purpose. I have watched a number of programmes on the use of AI in medical and pharmaceutical applications. This technology is driving real innovation and speeding up the time it takes to complete trials looking at different ways pharmaceuticals and medicine can help people. In that regard, it is really important and useful.  The genie is out of the bottle. AI is with us and it is not going anywhere. What we do with it is the most important issue. What this House does in terms of regulation and ensuring the companies driving all of this do so in the proper way and are monitored, with proper due diligence done on how AI impacts society, is very important. We know AI has positive impacts but it also has extremely negative impacts. We are talking about social media and how it impacts on young people, with different countries moving towards banning social media for young people. Sometimes we look at all of this in very simplistic ways. AI is deeply complex and something we are going to be learning about as it changes exponentially. It is moving at such a fast pace that what we talk about and think about today in relation to AI could be obsolete in a couple of months' time. That is how fast this is moving.  We need to make sure we have properly resourced structures in place. We are dealing with multibillion dollar companies which have vast resources and profits on a scale we have never seen. They have the capacity to tie up organisations such as the one we are discussing in legal issues. If we do not have the structures we are talking about in place and properly resourced and supported, our approach will not be effective. We will then be relying on the companies themselves to police themselves. That is the one thing we cannot do because we know they are driven exclusively by profit.  In relation to workers' rights, we are already seeing workers directly affected by AI. We need to make sure workers and young people are protected. We have talked about AI and social media use and the damage caused by algorithms and the lack of attention social media companies are giving to dealing with the harmful issues in relation to them. We need to make sure this body is regulated, well resourced and capable of taking on the big companies because we cannot trust them. That is the most important thing. We cannot trust these companies. They are driven by profit only. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy John McGuinness)  I extend a welcome to Deputy Heneghan's former teachers and class who are in the public Gallery. They have a lot to answer for. They are very welcome and I hope they enjoy the debate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maeve O'Connell  This legislation seeks to ensure that AI transformation is guided by key principles, namely, safety, accountability and trust. We must also ensure that we extend those principles to the transformation AI is having on higher education. AI can, of course, supporting learning but it can also produce essays and other assessments. Now we have AI tools to help us detect AI-generated assessments. This has resulted in a weird arms race, with increasingly sophisticated AI tools to generate assignments and increasingly sophisticated AI tools to try to detect its use. Meanwhile, the impact of AI is threatening the success in widening access to higher education because in many cases, information technology is now being removed from assessments entirely.  The only comparator I have to the impact AI is having on higher education is Covid, which resulted in everybody having to work from home and teaching going online. However, there is one key difference. With Covid, there was always the expectation that eventually we would return to campuses and more familiar operations. It is not the same with AI. There is no return to the status quo there. This transformation is permanent.  The higher education system is not designed to withstand this level of a systematic shock. It is designed for gradual change and structured review. Assessment methods are regularly evaluated but these are informed by industry, research and engagement with stakeholders before any changes are implemented. This protects academic integrity and ensures students are taught what they need to prepare them for their futures. It is a core element of the design of system. This is not a system designed for overnight transformation.  Covid prompted a rapid shift to promote teaching and assessment and staff very much rose to the challenge. They transformed how they worked to support the students they had. However, it required an enormous amount of staff effort and commitment, which were never really fully recognised. It was the same for many other people who had to change how they did things during that time. After only a few years, we are asking those exact same staff to once again transform how they work.  Another key difference is that this time we have no established play book. We have no experts out there who have already solved all of these problems. Research is still emerging and best practice is still evolving. Meanwhile, our lecturers and researchers are on the front lines, addressing these challenges in real time on a daily basis. They are redesigning curriculum, rethinking assessment methods, responding to the misuse of AI tools and helping their students navigate AI ethically, all the while maintaining high standards of teaching and research. They are expected to do this in a system that was never designed to be this agile. This is an unrecognised and unacknowledged extra workload and responsibility on our academic staff. This adds to the existing workforce issues, where we have one in five academic staff employed in temporary or short-term contracts. We are now expecting those staff to navigate this changing world of AI and engage in all that adaptation, not knowing if they will have a job next semester or year.  If we are serious about ensuring AI is well governed, we need to invest in a national approach to AI in education because there are no ivory towers in a post-AI higher education world. We owe that to our third level staff and students and to the future of our higher education system. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shane Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Shane Moynihan  T\u00e1 \u00e1thas orm bheith in ann labhairt ar an mBille seo trathn\u00f3na. Ba mhaith liom moladh a thabhairt don Aire St\u00e1it, an Teachta Smyth, agus an Teachta \u00d3 Cear\u00fail as ucht a gcuid oibre leis an mBille seo a chur le ch\u00e9ile.  I welcome the establishment of oifig intleachta shaorga na h\u00c9ireann, which will be a very important piece of the architecture to ensure the overall enforcement and monitoring of this legislation. My plea at this stage, as we establish that office, is that we staff it appropriately, get the appropriate talent and hire the appropriate professionals with the skills necessary to ensure we have strong and competent regulation in terms of how we engage with AI in Ireland. I emphasise that is not necessarily just saying we need to regulate. It positions Ireland as a very strong centre for companies and research centres that want to learn more about how to use AI. If we have the people and professionals in our regulatory and monitoring authorities who are able to watch, monitor and collaborate with that innovation, it will set us up to be a better centre for regulation, both in Ireland and across the European Union. Alignment with the European Union is extremely important in this instance.  The second point I make is with regard to the need to encourage innovation. LinkedIn data shows that Ireland is exceptionally attractive to AI engineers from all over the world. We have seen net positive migration of those individuals to this country over the past year.  That shows we have the skill sets and competence in this country and in that sense the oifig should be thinking about innovation. I encourage the Minister to consider whether there is scope to include in the Bill provisions to make oifig intleachta shaorga na h\u00c9ireann take the mandating and encouraging of innovation very seriously, not only in encouraging innovation around AI but also ensuring the regulation is fit for purpose. Often the criticism is made in this House and other places that regulation does not catch up with technology as it is developed. One solution would be to have the regulator sitting beside centres of innovation so it understands how that innovation takes place and how the resulting regulation can take account of that.  My third point relates to the need to ensure the oifig takes training and proficiency in AI skills as a core part of its mandate and in the roll-out of its work. All of the research on AI points to the fact that while AI technical skills are extremely important, human-centric skills, such as problem solving, team building and critical thinking, are also important. They are what makes AI such a powerful tool and it is important the oifig does not lose sight of that. I encourage those three points to be taken into account as the Bill proceeds to Committee Stage. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I am delighted to have this opportunity to speak on the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026. It has been said by many previous speakers that AI is just a reality we are dealing with. Even though some people worry about it, we are a long way removed from Skynet coming live, if anyone remembers the glorious days of \"Terminator\".  We all know the issues with the tech sector. When we talk about AI, we know about the part that crosses over into the issues we are having with social media. We know there is a requirement for regulation. It is obviously vital we have oifig intleachta shaorga na h\u00c9ireann, the AI office of Ireland. We need a body to co-ordinate this. I get that in some level it will almost work against itself, in the sense that the first part of its work will be regulation, which will be required given all the issues we have seen with the tech sector lately and the fact we are not even entirely sure where AI is at now, never mind where it will be in two weeks' or two years' time.  It is very easy to talk about ensuring we promote AI literacy and have the proper regulatory sandboxes - controlled and contained situations where we can actually try to test AI. Obviously there will be a huge amount of international co-operation. We know who the big players are, namely, America and China. We know there is a certain element of open source and we are not entirely sure who wins out here. We know the huge dangers there are. The very simplistic dangers are the ones we know only too well. People will talk about Covalen and the loss of upwards of 720 jobs there. I have said it for a long time in relation to some of the jobs I have seen being lost in the likes of PayPal. I get the point that can be an issue of machine learning meeting AI. We have to have a strategy to ensure we do not miss out on the benefits of AI but we also have to deal with the displacement of jobs and other risks.  I attended a Children's Rights Alliance event earlier. A major part of the discussion related to where AI meets recommender algorithms in social media. We can all work on the basis that social media and big tech companies are about keeping you online. They will show you whatever they need to show you to keep you online. It is about you staying online and them making money. It is as simple as that. We know we will have to see a hell of a lot more from the Government, but also from Coimisi\u00fan na Me\u00e1n, the European Commission and the Data Protection Commissioner, if we are going to see those companies brought to book properly. That needs to happen because we know of the huge dangers there are for children.  It was pointed out to me that, in dealing with this legislation, we have to make sure there is regulation of AI and protection and that we put in specific protections for children. The social media issue is about regulation. As others have said, as much as we want to see AI literacy, we also need to see digital literacy. We also need to see that people show a capacity and ability to critically analyse circumstances and situations. We need to ensure we teach----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  The time is up, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I could go on for a lot longer but I will not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I understand Deputies Michael Collins, O'Flynn and O'Donoghue are sharing time equally. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I do not think I will take the full amount of time I have. As a young fella growing up, AI had a totally different meaning in west Cork from what it means today. When we talked about AI, we were looking after animals and trying to bring a new type of animal into the world, but now AI refers to artificial intelligence. I do not know what they are going to call the artificial insemination man now. He was called the bull man down my way but they will have to call it some other kind of intelligence.  There is another aspect of artificial intelligence that we need to speak about plainly, that is, its misuse in everyday life. AI is a powerful tool when it is used correctly, or so I am told because I do not use it at all myself. It can help businesses to grow, improve services and make life easier for people. No one in this House disputes that. However, when it is misused we start to see real problems and ordinary people are the ones who pay the price. I am increasingly hearing from people who are on the receiving end of AI-generated communications, messages and letters that look like they have come from solicitors, are dressed up in legal language and are designed to put the fear of God into them. These are automated, often aggressive in tone and sent out in bulk. That is not professionalism; it is intimation by automation, and I have no time for it.  We are also seeing AI being used to waste people's time with endless, low-quality content, spam-type material and automated responses that add nothing valuable but create confusion and frustration. People are busy enough without having to deal with that kind of nonsense.  Then there is this issue of fake images and misleading content. AI can now generate highly convincing pictures that are simply not real. These are being used alongside exaggerated or completely false headlines. This is clickbait designed to grab attention rather than tell the truth. It undermines public trust, not just in technology but in information itself. Again, let me be very clear that I have no time for that either.  If we are serious about regulating AI, we cannot just focus on high level systems or large corporations. We must also recognise the everyday misuse that affects ordinary people, including the farmer, the small business owner and the pensioner who receives a threatening letter or sees a misleading image online. Regulation must send a clear message that AI is not a free licence to mislead, intimidate or waste people's time. There must be accountability when AI is abused. While we support innovation, we must also draw firm lines. AI should serve people, not frustrate, frighten or deceive them. That balance is what we need to get right. It is right, therefore, that we regulate AI. Independent Ireland accepts the need for clear rules, strong consumer protections and accountability.  However, supporting regulation does not mean giving the Government a blank cheque. The Bill creates a new State body with significant structures. The public deserves clarity on the cost and on whether we are duplicating existing regulators. We must also be honest about the burden on small Irish businesses. Large multinationals can absorb complex compliance rules. Local businesses in Cork and elsewhere cannot. We cannot create a system that suits big corporations while leaving Irish enterprises behind. The enforcement powers in this BiIl are substantial, including access to data and even source code. These must be exercised in a balanced and proportionate way to maintain industry confidence.  There are positives. The regulatory sandbox, AI literacy and the complaints system are all welcome but the key is balance. Ireland should be the best place in Europe for responsible AI innovation, protecting people while supporting enterprise. We support the objective of the Bill but we will press the Government on cost, proportionality and fairness for small businesses. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ken O'Flynn  My colleague has spoken about the positives and negatives of AI. I want to concentrate more on the technicalities of the Bill.  I want to be clear from the outset what this Bill is and what it is not. Whatever we are being told it is certainly not a modest piece of housekeeping. Indeed, it is a scaffolding for an entire, new, State-run, artificial intelligence regulator, a Bill which now has 139 sections and four schedules, a statutory body and a sanctions regime reaching \u20ac35 million, or up to 7% of a company\u2019s global turnover. That is what we are discussing here. Yet, this House is being invited to waive through this legislation on the understanding that it is just a little bit of housekeeping. That is the Government\u2019s own framing of this. We are told that these are technically implementable measures. We are told that the real law is going to be written in Brussels, and that we are just there simply to be the building mechanism and the machinery behind that, to enforce something that will be taken from Brussels legislation and which has not yet been fully written. For that reason, and for that reason alone, to rush this Bill through should tell this House that for the reasons I have outlined we need to scrutinise this legislation far more closely, have far more time on this debate, and look at the legislation and the Bill far more than we are.  When a Parliament is reduced to installing the plumbing for a law that it cannot amend, the least we can do in this House is make sense of that plumbing work. Here in this Bill it does not. The Bill requires a new AI office of Ireland to be operational by August of this year. The State has set up an entire institution, it has to staff it, it has to fund it, and it has to switch the lights on within weeks. Yet, at a European Union level, the very obligations this office are meant to enforce are being pushed back under the digital ombudsman agreement, which I do not believe has been mentioned in this House, reached in May and not yet formally adopted, but already agreed between the institutions. The high-risk rules at the heart of this regime to be set up and applied will not be this August but in December 2027. We are here in this House and we are actually building a referee, at speed and with cost, 16 months before the match even begins. I put it to the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, that we are legislating in the fog. That is what we are doing in this House at the moment with this information and this Bill. We cannot be told in this House the certainties and rules by which this office will finally have something to enforce. It is not coming in from Europe yet. We have not yet received that information.  Let us turn now to what is at stake for this country. I do not think we have played this out enough or thought enough about it. Ireland is not a bystander when it comes to artificial intelligence. We host it in American technology companies that lead the field and run their European Union operations from all across this country. They did not do this accidentally. The point, which the Government will not say out loud, is that last year corporation tax brought in the sum of \u20ac33 billion, which is a record amount. The top ten companies, overwhelmingly American multinationals, paid well over 50% of it. Around 75% of all corporation tax comes through United States firms. Those companies employ directly almost 200,000 people in the State, and another 160,000 indirectly in this State. That is not competitive advantage, or should be taken as casual trade. That is the single most concentrated precarious revenue stream in this State, and it must be protected and minded. With that in mind, what are we doing with it? We are volunteering to be the most diligent enforcer of a framework from the European Union that is imposed on an industry that it has failed to build itself. Europe has not built AI: America and China have. Europe is way behind when it comes to AI and AI firms. What are we doing here with the very firms we depend on for finance? Is the Minister of State aware that the independent Irish Fiscal Advisory Council has already said that tighter regulation in the sector will be a risk to the revenue receipts of the State? That is a very important statement and something we all need to reflect on in this Chamber. The Minister of State has met with these companies. They are mobile companies. They make location decisions every day. We should be giving them every reason to stay in this country rather than giving them reasons to exit this country. Instead, what we have decided to do through this Bill is implement and hand them a \u20ac35 million fine regime and 15 separate regulators to answer to. It seems bizarre to me to have 15 separate regulators to answer to.  Let me be straight with this House. I am not against oversight of technology in any way. No serious person in this House should be against oversight of technology, but artificial intelligence raises real questions and the public are entitled to real answers. A Parliament that truly cares about its citizens does not switch on an enforcement mechanism or an enforcement machine without knowing the rules around it first. It does not impose a cost on its taxpayers by putting at risk the very receipts that fund the Exchequer, that fund our social welfare, that fund our schools, that fund our third level colleges, that fund our hospitals and that fund our senior citizen homes.  To my mind, good governance has always been about sequencing. It means waiting until the European Union rules are there and settled upon before we build Irish machinery to enforce them. It means protecting the jobs of the State and the revenue that the State actually depends upon, and not gambling them to look busy in front of our lords and masters in Brussels in their shadow. For this reason, this Bill in its current form and in this timeline is an entire mistake. The Bill asks this House to legislate before Europe has done so. It asks us to put taxpayers' funds at risk 16 institutional months ahead of its own purpose. It firmly asks this economy to carry and absorb the cost at haste, and the firms that deliver so much of that tax revenue to us. Currently I cannot support the Bill. I ask the Minister of State to rethink it before she brings it to the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  AI in some instances scares me and in some instances it is good for different parts if it is used correctly. How many people go on their phone and then no longer know what is actually factual or not? My concern about AI is that we need to get on top of it fairly quickly. I was in the Central Bank on Tuesday for a visit with the budgetary oversight committee. There are concerns about AI in this country. Now we do not know if the Strait of Hormuz is open or not because we do not know what to believe on this or not. What kinds of decisions are being made when things are happening around this world and people have a knee-jerk reaction to something they think is happening but it is not? From that point of view, we need to do something with AI.  Children today actually look at their phones and everything they look at on their phone actually works on them whereby anything they click on is put in front of them every time they turn on their phone. Every time they flick up on something or look at something, regardless of what it is, it keeps a rota going on with that system because the algorithm knows this is what the child is interested in. So, what does it do? It brainwashes them. If you keep seeing the same thing over and over again, then you start following different paths.  When it comes to our children and our students, they go to school to learn but they now have systems put in place to see if they are using it for their homework. Now we have to put a system in place to see if somebody is doing their homework or not, and that is based over the four or five years that they are in school. They are actually using the system now to see if the are actually using AI as part of their homework system. Again, technology is good and it can help with research and so on, but now we have to put things in place to make sure it is actually the person who is doing the work. This does not just apply to children and students. A lot of people use it in their jobs at the moment and also the people in this House. How many of us are using AI? How many used AI to do their speeches today? I did not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  A pen and paper. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Good man, but paper does not mean that you have got it in front of you. If you have the pen in front of you, that is what makes the difference.  A lot of the time I do not come into this House with paperwork because I do not want it to be shown that it was AI-generated. What you are looking at when you look at me is me. What comes out of my mouth is what I researched myself. I have never used AI.  Something was sent to me during the week and the person who sent it said, \"Richard, you looked great at a function\". I was not even there. It was another me. This is the part that scares me. In a situation where we might have a terrorist issue or a financial issue, my concern is that we will have a knee-jerk reactions to something that is not actually there. How safe is our banking network? How safe are our identities when they can be used? With the stuff that is being put out at the moment, we cannot differentiate between what is real and what is not unless it is on mainstream media. That is a concern that I have with AI. We need to put whatever procedures in place to protect us, livelihoods, businesses and to stop people misusing AI for the wrong reasons.  There is no doubt that it will replace jobs. People read comments on social media. Most of the comments that are posted, if person looks at them and segregates them, are coming from bots. They are not coming from people; they are coming from bots. How many people were caught out by something that was AI-generated and put online? They then apologise and say that it was not them and was generated through AI.  When people look in at this House, they want to see real people delivering real results that they have researched themselves and that it are not AI-generated. That is my concern for the future and the here and now.  We are putting measures in place to try to counteract this, but we are also last on the field. The United States and China are on the field a long time. We are only playing catch-up. We are so far behind in stopping this from becoming destructive instead of something that can help. We are so far behind on that. We need to get on top of that for the protection and the governance of this country and all walks of life. If we are not careful, AI will take over and the simple part of our existence will be mirrored everywhere we go. I would like to see how AI will get on with me because sometimes I do not know what I am going to do myself when I walk out the door, so it will have a hard job with me. There are, however, a lot of people who are repetitive and it will screen them and know their next move all the time.  We need to put measures in place for the protection of everyone and the protection their finances from criminality so the sooner we get something put together the better. We also need to get it right. It needs to be researched correctly - not AI research. It needs to be researched properly for the protection of this country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joe Neville  Deputy O'Donoghue just spoke, and I have a west Limerick background. When I heard about AI when I younger, it was on the farm, and it was not artificial intelligence. It was artificial insemination, but things have changed over many years. That joke has been made many times but it always speaks to me about how we have to keep in touch.  Deputy O'Flynn spoke earlier, and I have a lot of the same concerns he has. He spoke clearly about them, and many people have the same concerns. We need regulation but we have to be careful. We do not want to over-regulate or over-instruct, but AI is an evolutionary change. We cannot have it becoming like the Wild West, so we need strong rules and regulations in place, and we need to harmonise them and make sure they are there because they have to be. That is why this is such a balancing act and why it is something that is brand new.  We all know that artificial intelligence is having an effect on all our daily lives in many different ways. Some people use it all the time. Some people use it for work. It is changing small companies, and it is really having an impact on large companies. Employee numbers are probably smaller. I started in PriceWaterhouseCoopers as a young auditor. I am sure that within the next couple of years, those numbers will be reduced over time, especially in the US. It will be first to embrace this and after that Ireland will, no doubt, follow the same path. Companies will no longer need people to go in and assess the basics. They will go in at a higher level.  Regarding the impact that AI will have, we do not know where it is going to end up. Those large companies that are in charge of it are working with other companies and getting in deeper. Ultimately, the risk is that people will be excluded and that is the larger existential AI risk in the workplace.  Previous speakers mentioned about a potential AI tax, a term I hate, on users and corporates, which is something I referenced before, because no one knows where it will end up. If workers, companies and smaller SMEs are going to be displaced then we have to have some way to monitor this. That is further down the field, but these conversations need to be had at the outset because we do not know the impact that AI will have. That is why I welcome the Bill in place and the office being established. We need someone to spot the gaps, differences and potential impacts because this needs to be monitored.  As was referenced earlier, Ireland is currently benefiting from AI through corporation taxes and even business. I was in with the Central Bank yesterday. Its officials spoke about how a vast element of the growth in the economy is related to AI and data centres. That is where we are seeing the benefits in many ways that other countries are not. I am not going to speak out of two sides of my mouth and complain and worry because we are seeing a real benefit from it. At the same time, it does not mean that we cannot look towards the future.  I welcome the Bill, and it is really important that we do this. We also need to ensure that we do not over-regulate and go too far. At the same time, we have to monitor it and that is the balance that we will have to get right out of this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Keira Keogh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Keira-Keogh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Keira Keogh  If Deputy O'Donoghue thinks that he has not used AI before, he definitely has. Even if he has not used a particular AI app, if he put a search into Google this evening, he would have got an AI summary whether he wanted it or not.  As a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Artificial Intelligence, I welcome this Bill and the work of the Department officials and the Minister of State. It is legislation that is hugely important and necessary to ensure that Ireland meets its obligations in overseeing the development and deployment of artificial intelligence systems. More importantly, this legislation aims to protect our citizens and uphold their fundamental rights. I welcome the establishment of the AI office, but I would like it to have more of a role in advocacy and literacy. It has the opportunity to be a one-stop shop with a cross-sectoral approach that will look at health. We know that people are turning to AI at the moment to get advice on health. Children in our education settings are using AI and they may not be aware of the hallucinations and the misinformation that it can produce. We have the risk to our SMEs and other jobs in business and enterprise. The disability space has a real concern that the bias that is already in place will unintentionally be reinforced by AI. The AI office could be a trusted one-stop shop to also engage in advocacy and literacy. I welcome the enforcement mechanisms and sanctions. It seems the Bill will give us robust oversight and significant penalties.  As the chair of the children and equality committee, I must examine this through the lens of children's rights, and I see where there might be gaps. Under the heading \"fundamental rights\", children will be protected but the issues relating to technology and social media have more consequences for our young people growing up in this new reality.  I have serious concerns about harmful chatbots. We know there have been times when people have been coached into suicide. I often talk about the fact that there was no Tinder when I was in secondary school and now there are Tinder babies and marriages. I am worried about the next generation. It might not even be Tinder. They might have their first relationship with a chatbot. What happens then when the company introduces a significant subscription fee for that chatbot?  Do they then lose access to their boyfriend or girlfriend, and where does that leave their mental health? I think children will face this concern more than others. We know they are facing deepfakes and having their videos manipulated for potential bullying. I ask that provision be made for the expertise of children and young people, perhaps through an advisory panel, which we have seen work so well in other areas, and to support the rights groups that are watch-guards in this space. This afternoon I was on a panel discussion with the Children's Rights Alliance, and this is something it and its members are passionate about. I believe there will be scope to address those concerns on Committee Stage or at phase 2 in the autumn. Children need named protection in this Bill. As I said, AI features are now embedded into almost everything they do, from daily Internet searches and their gaming to the educational tools within their classrooms. On every single screen a child touches, AI is now a feature.  The fundamental rights agencies will, of course, still play a role. They can make complaints, they will co-operate with regulators and they may channel decisions through legal mechanisms. We must continue our work towards a system that genuinely protects the rights of all those who might be most at risk. I have mentioned children in my role, but the disability community and our older people are also very much at risk of AI, aside from the jobs that could be lost in the enterprise sectors, an issue which has been very much covered.  As we approach the beginning of Ireland's Presidency of the Council of the EU, I really welcome this Bill and our obligations under the AI Act. I hope we remain steadfast as we continue to demonstrate our commitment to online safety in promoting responsible AI innovation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  I welcome the Bill. Regulation in this space is perhaps more important than any other regulatory Bill we will pass in this House this year. Any new technology poses problems, difficulties, challenges and threats and, undoubtedly, that is true of artificial intelligence. It does not mean we cannot regulate to protect ourselves and it does not mean we cannot put measures in place to protect ourselves and our children. There is a concern about the notion of over-regulation, that we will therefore stifle innovation or prevent people from coming up with new ideas or new technologies. In fairness, artificial intelligence represents one of the greatest achievements of mankind from the point of view of creating something that can grow itself, feed itself and inform itself. That in and of itself should not be overlooked. The danger that comes with that is that we do not control how it feeds itself or how it informs itself. We have already seen the many pitfalls where artificial intelligence will throw up results in a search online or through an artificial intelligence app that are patently false. As a lawyer, I can tell the House that I have seen many instances of that happen in the legal world, thankfully not in this jurisdiction but certainly, if the Internet is to be believed, and frequently it is not, quite a lot in America. You see lawyers in legal cases submit legal submissions which cite cases that never actually occurred. The danger is that artificial intelligence does not have the ethical framework that humans have. It does not have the understanding. It certainly does not have emotional intelligence or any of those things that we factor into human decision-making.  We therefore need to put in place regulation to ensure we do not have a raft of falsehoods being propagated by artificial intelligence. Now, that already happens. It happened with the Internet before artificial intelligence. It happens very often at the nefarious hand of humans with normal intelligence, but artificial intelligence can do it on a scale and at a pace we cannot match, so regulation is hugely important there.  I do not believe that regulation stifles innovation necessarily. It can, of course, and over-regulation can hold things back. However, one of the things we can say very proudly in Europe is that innovation and regulation are not mutually exclusive; we can have both. We can have regulations that protect us, protect our information systems and protect our children from exposure to these things online, but we can also have an environment that allows entrepreneurs, developers and the creators and the creative people in this world to constantly build new technologies. That is a good thing. Many of the criticisms that are made against artificial intelligence were made against the Internet and the computer and, before that, the machine that sliced bread, if proverbs are to be believed. I am not a Luddite. I do not believe we should not be progressing - of course we should - but we need to progress in a way that can ensure the protection of the citizenry's rights and the integrity of what they view, for example, on the Internet. Reference was made earlier to the fact that anybody who has done a Google search in recent times has used AI, whether they actively consented to it or not. I have an issue with that because nobody asked my consent to enter my search criteria into an AI bot or an AI application. This is the kind of thing for which regulation is needed. If people are to engage with artificial intelligence, they should do so in an informed way and actively consent to doing that. Otherwise they do not really know what is coming back or whether they can rely on the search results that come back. Perhaps what is most important is that, irrespective of what regulations arise from this legislation, people still have to check things themselves.  May I make just one point about the drafting? The Bill does not actually define what artificial intelligence is. In section 2, the interpretation section, it does make reference to the European legislative instruments, but it does not actually say what they say. That is a drafting difficulty that means people will have to look up that stuff elsewhere, which can be quite difficult for them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niamh Smyth","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Niamh-Smyth.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment (Deputy Niamh Smyth)  I thank everybody for their contributions, their helpfulness and their thoughtfulness in their statements, comments and observations. It has been a very wide and varied discussion. AI inevitably touches almost every aspect of society, from innovation and economic growth to public services and jobs. While these are important and wide-ranging issues, today we are here to introduce this legislation, which is focused on implementing the EU AI Act in Ireland and establishing the framework necessary for its effective supervision and enforcement. I have no doubt this House will continue to discuss and to debate the broader implications of AI in the months and years ahead. That is both necessary and welcome.  There were some comments that this is very rushed. Since I have come into the Department 16 months ago, these very smart and bright people to my right, the officials in my Department, have been working night and day on this legislation. They could in no way be accused of having rushed this without real and proper consideration and thought. While I do appreciate we are bringing it through the Houses quite quickly, I am certainly open to working with the Opposition on any aspect of this in the weeks ahead.  On the protection of fundamental rights, which came up quite a bit across the House, and the enforcement regime in the Bill, I point to the fact again that the EU AI Act has direct effect in Irish law and it sets out very clear obligations on providers of AI systems, deployers, importers, etc., that the Bill must be read alongside the EU AI Act. You cannot read or consider one without the other. Safety, ethics and fundamental rights are the key focus of the AI Act. The enforcement regime in the Bill is robust and builds on the strong market surveillance frameworks already in place. It enables the ramping up of enforcement, from contravention notices to encouragement of compliance to the larger fines. That is incredibly important to say about safety, ethics and fundamental rights.  There was some discussion about the labour market. I would be the first, and I think I always have been since I have come into this Chamber to discuss artificial intelligence, to put my hand up and say there will be labour disruption and displacement. There is certainly no putting our heads in the sand over that matter. The establishment of the AI office seeks to address that. The Government is committed to preparing Ireland for the inevitable transition that is happening within the workplace. Ireland has had its third highest level of STEM graduates. One of the biggest demands of qualified students coming here to Ireland is for AI-related jobs, even though I acknowledge there have been job lay-offs in certain companies. However, it is important to note that there is still huge and driving demand for those skilled in AI. The leading providers have established in this country, along with our strong education system, and we continue to attract that talent and investment. It was noted that we have some of the biggest AI companies here in Ireland. That is because we create the environment for that. We are in no way attempting to compromise that or compromise any of the jobs that are directly affected by that. The national AI and digital strategy provides establishment of OBAIR to monitor and provide insight into the evolving impact of AI on skills and the labour force. That is all done under the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. Within our own Department, we are also setting about to establish an observatory that looks at exactly that - the implication for jobs - and trying to mitigate that as much as possible.  The national AI digital strategy has been refreshed on a number of occasions to try to really be that agile blueprint that we can refer to and work with all the time. It is certainly not going to be stiff or stale, or sitting on a shelf. Again the officials are to be applauded for the incredible work on that.  Deputy Lawlor went into great detail on constitutional matters. I know he may not have been here for my introduction to this but all the provisions of the Bill have been drafted with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel, with constant engagement and consultation with the Office of the Attorney General on the legal and constitutional matters. However, I have taken copious notes, and I am sure my officials have too, on the matters he raised tonight. We will certainly do our best to bring peace of mind to that.  Another matter that was raised on a number of occasions was AI literacy. The role of the AI office is not just oversight of the regulatory market surveillance and regulatory bodies that already exist. As the general scheme recognises, effective AI regulation depends not only on enforcement but also on the appropriate level of AI literacy of those who develop, deploy, use or are impacted by AI systems. To support the development of AI literacy, the AI office has been given a very specific role around AI literacy, supporting awareness of AI-related risks and obligations; providing guidance and information to organisations and to public bodies; facilitating informed engagement with AI technologies and contributing to public trust in terms of the AI systems. It is not going to be a one-trick pony. It is a very broad, all-encompassing, across-the-board piece of legislation, which has been described to me as horizontal, that the AI office will bring to the fore.  I thank Deputy Conway-Walsh for being here until the conclusion of the Bill. She raised certain things and I assure her they are being addressed. I can provide her with further reassurance and notes. She raised independence and resourcing. I am certainly going to address that. I think I have addressed displacement already in my closing comments.  On regional developments, the Deputy is absolutely right that there is huge potential. She and I both come from very rural parts of this island, and I think that is one of the absolute benefits to AI deployment.  Simplification has come up quite a lot, with negativity about having another regulatory body. The Department and officials have been so cognisant of not bringing in more red tape or burying business and SMEs in more bureaucracy, to actually make things simple and not add another layer of time-consuming cost burden to business. I want to acknowledge that and state it on the record.  Deputy Conway-Walsh also raised transparency and the creative industries. As somebody who has come from the creative industries, I am very mindful around copyright and artists' work being mimicked or copied without their approval, their say or any remuneration. All of that is being taken into consideration and I can supply the Deputy with further information on all the matters she raised here tonight.  I hope I have addressed Deputy Keogh's piece on AI literacy in some way tonight, too.  I thank all the Deputies for their contributions to the debate and look forward to their support in this Bill and its further consideration on Committee Stage. I re-emphasise that the purpose of the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026 is to provide for the implementation in Ireland of the AI Act and EU regulation. This Bill is a landmark for Ireland's digital regulatory framework. AI is a transformative technology which offers extraordinary potential for our economy and our citizens, but realising that potential requires appropriate oversight and accountability. This Bill delivers exactly that. It fulfils Ireland's EU obligations, giving effect to Ireland's pioneering AI Act in domestic law by ensuring we have the national infrastructure in place to supervise and enforce it effectively.  The Bill establishes Oifig IS na h\u00c9ireann, the new AI office in Ireland, as an independent institution at the centre of our AI regulatory system, and empowers our competent authorities with the investigative and enforcement tools they need and, most importantly, the skill base that everybody has referred to, the skills that are needed in terms of scrutinising AI that will be available to the competent authorities.  Ireland has adopted a distributive model for the regulation of AI, levering the expertise and capability of the State's existing regulators and providing that expertise to them. This is speaking to the fact that we do not want to bring any extra regulatory burden. We must remember that regulation is the gold stamp of approval. The businesses I have talked to want that approval. They want to know what the safeguards and rules of engagement are around AI. That is going to bring confidence to this country, particularly to those in business and enterprise. It is not mitigation or putting a huge emphasis on enterprise and forgetting about the human centrepiece, which is being really considered throughout this work.  I would particularly like to thank the many Government Departments and their authorities, agencies and offices that have been involved in consultation on this Bill. My Department remains actively engaged with the competent authorities and their line Departments as preparations for implementation of the AI Act and enactment of the Bill continue. Again I note that the Bill is a technical instrument that will ensure that the rights and protections provided by the EU's AI Act will be rigorously asserted in Ireland for the benefit and protection of Irish citizens. It does not add to or alter the obligations on businesses under the AI Act. It is mandatory under the AI Act for EU member states to give effect to these national provisions by 2 August 2026. I thank all the colleagues around the House and most particularly the officials in the Department, who have worked might and main to bring this to fruition. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026: Second Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"billReport","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/36","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/36\/dail\/4_sub","houseCode":"dail","stage":"4_sub","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) (Amendment) Bill 2026: Report and Final Stages (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) (Amendment) Bill 2026: Report and Final Stages","counts":{"speechCount":16,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Amendment No. 1 in the name of Deputy Sherlock has been ruled out of order, as it does not arise out of committee proceedings. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I move amendment No. 2:  In page 27, to delete lines 5 to 39, and in page 28, to delete lines 1 to 7 and substitute the following:   \u201cRetail packaging of nicotine inhaling product and nicotine consumption products   32E. (1) Subject to Regulation 29 of the Regulations of 2016 and subsection (6), a unit packet of a nicotine inhaling product or a nicotine consumption product intended for sale by retail in the State shall comply with the following requirements:  (a) the outer surface thereof shall be a prescribed colour;  (b) the inner surface thereof shall be a prescribed colour;  (c) it shall not bear any decorative ridges, embossing or other embellishments;  (d) it shall not contain an adhesive that is coloured or non-transparent;  (e) it shall not contain any imagery such as cartoons or graphics, other than\u2014  (i) a single realistic depiction of the nicotine inhaling product or nicotine consumption product, which depiction complies with the requirements of sections 32C and 32D, or  (ii) any illustrated safety or usage instructions;  (f) where any text, safety or usage instructions or a trade mark is visible, such text, safety or usage instructions or trade mark shall be a prescribed colour;  (g) it shall not contain any affixed item or any item other than the nicotine inhaling product or nicotine consumption product itself and any inner packaging other than as provided for by law.  (2) A barcode or other identification mark or code may be printed once on a unit packet and, if so printed, shall be printed in a prescribed colour.  (3) Subsections (1) and (2) shall apply with all necessary modifications to any other form of outside packaging of nicotine inhaling products or nicotine consumption products.  (4) A wrapper that covers a unit packet or any other form of outside packaging for a nicotine inhaling product or a nicotine consumption product shall comply with the following requirements:  (a) it shall be transparent and not be coloured;  (b) it shall not bear any decorative ridges, embossing or other embellishments;  (c) where a tear strip is included, such tear strip shall be a prescribed colour;  (d) it shall not have any affixed item other than as provided for by law.  (5) Where a unit packet of a nicotine inhaling product or a nicotine consumption product contains a lining or inner packaging, such lining or inner packaging shall be of such colour and material as may be prescribed.  (6) Subsection (1) shall not apply to any warnings or identification marks (including health warnings) provided for by law.  (7) A person who sells by retail a nicotine inhaling product which contravenes subsection (1), (2), (4) or (5) commits an offence.\u201d.\u201d.  On the amendment that was ruled out of order, just to note that it deals with an important issue. Maybe it could be considered at a future stage. It is happening that they are being given out for free at festivals and I think Deputy Sherlock had a point there.  On my own amendments, I will speak about amendments Nos. 2 and 3 together because they are related. On Second Stage, I raised concerns about the exclusion of nicotine pouches from the packaging and flavouring restrictions. We should treat nicotine pouches and any other nicotine consumption products the same as we are treating vapes. It is incredibly short-sighted not to amend this legislation. If it is not addressed now, it seems inevitable that further legislation will be required. As I have said repeatedly, we should use our time effectively and efficiently in the D\u00e1il and we should legislate here while we have the opportunity instead of waiting, coming back with another Bill and doing this at a future stage. We should do this now.  The amendments I am putting forward today have been drafted in collaboration with the Irish Cancer Society and the Irish Heart Foundation, which support the calls here. I hope the D\u00e1il will endorse them. As people will know, nicotine pouches are small, odourless tobacco-free pouches that contain nicotine, flavourings and other ingredients. They are placed between the lips and the gum. You get between 15 and 20 pouches for around \u20ac5 to \u20ac7. They are available in various strengths and are designed to deliver high-concentration amounts of nicotine into the bloodstream. There is no smoke or vapour with these products, unlike cigarettes or vapes. At the moment these products are openly displayed in shops in bright, attractive packaging and in a wide variety of flavours. We have talked in the Social Democrats - my colleague, Deputy Whitmore, has raised it numerous times - about the rise in teens using these products and how they are being targeted in the advertising of these products. It is no longer just anecdotal evidence. We now have data which was financed by the Department of Health. In May 2025, the European school survey project on alcohol and other drugs found that 8% of 15- and 16-year-olds reported having used nicotine pouches at some point, while 4% currently use nicotine pouches. The use of nicotine pouches was significantly higher among male students at 9.1% and the most common age at which people started using these nicotine pouches was 15. It is important to note that this data is from fieldwork carried out between March and May of 2024. Given the noticeable surge in nicotine pouch use since then and the aggressive marketing of these products, we would have to assume that it is much higher now. We need to take action on this and I do not think we should delay, otherwise we will be back here again. If we do not accept these amendments tonight, we will be here in future with another Bill.  We will be trying to do it then. As I said, we should try to close all of the gaps now and be efficient in how we deal with legislation in the House. The Government should be open to taking amendments from the Opposition. These amendments were drafted in collaboration with the Irish Cancer Society and the Irish Heart Foundation. I encourage the Minister of State to accept them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor)  I thank the Deputy for tabling the amendment, which relates to flavours and packaging law being introduced in respect of vapes as a result of a nicotine consumption order. The Bill introduces measures relating to nicotine consumption products, including pouches or any other products containing nicotine, in order to protect our children and take action while the use of these products is low. The measures in the Bill include a ban on sale to minors, a prohibition on advertising in retail outlets and a display ban in mixed retail outlets. These are important measures to protect our children and because of their nature are not likely to fall under harmonised law.  While I understand the intention behind the amendment, if these amendments were accepted, they would require a new notification at EU level. The provision in the Bill in this regard has already been notified to the EU. If no issues arise from a member state or the Commission, the process will conclude on 7 July. As it stands, the Bill has gone to Europe. It is my intention that the Bill will be enacted before the end of the year. I hope to have it passed before the recess. A new notification at EU level at this stage would mean not only a three- or six-month standstill period, but also a risk that the Bill would be delayed by at least 12 months or more. This will happen if the European Commission determines that Ireland is proposing law on an issue that it has already announced its intention to legislate for at EU level.  In April, the Commission announced that it will publish a revision of the tobacco products directive this year. The evaluation of the latest framework for tobacco control documents signals the areas that a revised directive will target, namely new tobacco and nicotine products and the rise of digital marketing, which particularly targets our younger people. Accepting the amendments would risk delaying the Bill by a year or more. While the same measures are likely to be proposed at EU level later this year, the law would be more effective in harmonised form. If we were to change the Bill now, that would mean waiting another year or so to pass it.  The Department and I hope to be able to pass the Bill by the end of July. As the Deputy said, we will have to look at this. There is no question about that. We need to move quickly on this, and that is why I will not be able to accept the amendment. As I said, we need to move on this now and then consider other matters. All of this can be examined in a few months' time. We need to get this through. I understand the Deputy's concerns, but, as I said, we are awaiting word from the EU. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Does the Deputy wish to respond? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  If I understand the Minister of State correctly, what she is suggesting is that the Government did not think about this and neglected to address this part of the legislation, thereby leaving a hole in the law. We now have to proceed because if we address this, we will have to go to the EU to get permission to do so. There is clearly a gap in the Bill, and there is no explanation from the Minister of State as to why this was not dealt with in either the first draft or the original notification to the EU.  I accept the Minister of State's argument that addressing this could delay the Bill, particularly as it was not done in the first place, but that is a mess of the Government's making. It is not our mess; we are trying to fix the hole in the law. It is inevitable that we will have to deal with nicotine pouches, advertising and flavours. Our argument is that we should do so now.  On EU law, the Minister of State might clarify whether there is a suggestion that the EU might pass an EU-wide law or give direction at national level, meaning that we will be back here dealing with another Bill. Is an EU-wide law proposed for nicotine pouches? Why was this not included in the Bill in the first place? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor  Again, I understand. Pouches have been spoken about. We are all learning about pouches. Vaping was new to us a while ago. We are looking at pouches now, and that is why there will be a second Bill to deal with pouches, colours, flavours and packaging. There are directives from the EU. We moved very quickly on this. We feel that this younger people, and we need to move on pouches, colours, flavours and packaging. The Government will move as quickly as it can and will work with its European counterparts on the other matters. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Does the Deputy want to respond? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I am not convinced that we should not be doing this now. As I said, we will be back here trying to do it anyway. I do not see a reason for that, other than the fact that there would be a delay. That seems to be part of the EU process. It appears that we will have to legislate in any event and will be back here with another Bill.  I do not accept the argument from the Minister of State that we are only hearing about these matters now. My party and my colleague Deputy Whitmore have raised this point repeatedly in the media and in the House over a number of years. This is not new; it is not something we came up with last week. There has been concern about the use of nicotine pouches by teenagers in schools. We have flagged this concern, but it is clear that we are not being listened to when we make contributions in the D\u00e1il. Ministers and their officials do not listen to us. We then end up with legislation that is defective and that needs to be improved. It is not just me saying that; it is also the Irish Cancer Society and the Irish Heart Foundation. Very well respected national organisations which campaign on these issues have stated that there is a gap in our law and that we should proceed with our amendment. I would like to see these amendments being progressed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  For clarity, has the Deputy moved the amendment? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I have. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Amendment No. 2 arises out of committee proceedings. Is the Deputy pressing the amendment? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I move amendment No. 3:  In page 28, to delete lines 8 to 39, and substitute the following:   \u201cFlavour names of nicotine inhaling products and nicotine consumption products   32F . (1) Subject to subsection (2), a person shall not sell by retail a nicotine inhaling product or nicotine consumption product with a flavour name.  (2) Subsection (1) shall not apply to the sale by retail of a nicotine inhaling product or nicotine consumption product with a flavour name specified in the Schedule.  (3) Subject to subsection (4), the Minister may, by regulation, add flavour names to the flavour names specified in the Schedule or remove flavour names specified in the Schedule.  (4) When making regulations under subsection (3), the Minister shall, having regard to public health and to the objectives of reducing harm from tobacco products, nicotine inhaling products and nicotine consumption products and prioritising the protection of health of children, take the following matters into account:  (a) the need to limit flavour names that may disproportionately appeal to children;  (b) evidence relating to flavours for nicotine inhaling products and smoking cessation, initiation and continuation of nicotine inhaling product use, or harm to health relating to nicotine inhaling products and nicotine consumption products;  (c) the prevalence of smoking of tobacco and use of nicotine inhaling products or nicotine consumption products in both children and adults, and the demographics of children and adults who smoke tobacco or use nicotine inhaling products or nicotine consumption products;  (d) evidence of the effectiveness, and other impacts, of the restrictions concerning flavour names for nicotine inhaling products and nicotine consumption products contained in this Act.  (5) A person shall not sell by retail a nicotine inhaling product or nicotine consumption product with a variant name which implies that such product has\u2014  (a) a particular sensory characteristic, or otherwise contains references to temperatures, textures or oral sensations, or  (b) a flavour other than that described in the flavour name.  (6) A person who contravenes subsection (1) or (5) commits an offence.\u201d.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment, by leave, withdrawn."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy David Cullinane  I move amendment No. 4:  In page 34, between lines 5 and 6, to insert the following:  \u201c     Menthol     Miontal      \u201d. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The time permitted for this debate having expired, I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the D\u00e1il of 23 June: \"That Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.\" "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  The Bill will now be sent to the Seanad. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) (Amendment) Bill 2026: Report and Final Stages"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"billReport","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/48","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/48\/dail\/4","houseCode":"dail","stage":"4","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"National Treasury Management Agency (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026: Report Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"National Treasury Management Agency (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026: Report Stage","counts":{"speechCount":33,"speakerCount":5},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Amendments Nos. 1 and 3 are related and may be discussed together by agreement. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I move amendment No. 1:  In page 8, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:  \u201c Report on NAMA performance  7. The Minister shall, within 6 months of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before both Houses of the Oireachtas a report on the performance of NAMA including a specific analysis on the potential for higher returns to the State had the property portfolio been managed for longer rather than sold off.\u201d  We discussed this at length on Committee Stage and I want to put on the record again that I genuinely believe that NAMA has failed in its obligations, its duties and what this House set out for it in terms of the legislation, which I opposed and one of the Government parties opposed at the time. NAMA was to recover the assets of the State at that time. The book value of the loans was \u20ac74.4 billion. NAMA purchased those loans for \u20ac31.8 billion. That means it got a reduction of \u20ac42.6 billion. The job of NAMA at the time was to recover all of the money. The Ministers went on television and said that developers would be chased to the ends of the earth to secure that money.  If property prices did not recover then it could not actually manage assets and could not sell assets to realise values that did not exist, but the reality is that asset prices have recovered and, in some cases, have surpassed where they were at the time. That is not universally the case and there are portions of land that did not have planning permission, that were overvalued or where the loans taken out should never have been given. However, generally, property prices have recovered. Therefore, we should ask ourselves a question. How, if NAMA bought loans for \u20ac42 billion less than what the book value was and property prices have recovered over the ten years, when the job of the agency was to manage the assets and recover the full cost or as much as it could, it made a surplus of only \u20ac5 billion? That \u20ac5 billion sounds like big money for ordinary punters out there, but in the context of a \u20ac42 billion haircut and the context of recovering all of its assets, I believe it is a staggering failure.  It is a staggering failure because NAMA was also interfered with in terms of the direction of the Government. Michael Noonan made it very clear that he wanted to find a floor for the property market back in 2013 when he invited in the vulture funds. They made no bones about this. They were very clear that they rolled out the red carpet, welcomed the vulture funds for this State and pressed NAMA into what was, in my view, a fire sale of assets at the wrong time, incurring huge loses to the Irish taxpayer as a result.  NAMA did not just fail in that regard. The Comptroller and Auditor General has the unique task in this State to look at expenditure and value for money in Government Departments and also in respect of NAMA. The Comptroller and Auditor General in the 2024 report concluded:  NAMA did not achieve the residential output target. As at the end of 2021, it had delivered 11,049 units on sites in which it has an interest. This represents delivery of 55% of the target, a year later than originally projected.  A return of 55% of the target is appalling. That is really bad in the middle of a housing crisis. There is nothing to be writing home about regarding that. The C and AG went on to say:  NAMA estimated that sites sold by NAMA debtors\/receivers by end 2024 had the potential to deliver 105,000 residential units. By end 2024, an estimated 27,108 units had been constructed on sites sold. This level of delivery represents just 26% of the estimated overall capacity of the residential development sites sold by NAMA debtors\/receivers to end 2024.  Anybody who sat the junior certificate or leaving certificate last week and got a result of 26% got a big, fat \"F\". That is a failure, and that is what NAMA has done in relation to the housing part of it, never mind the billions of euro that could and should have been collected in the recovering-property scenario of its objectives. That is why the amendment before us is crucial. It is crucial that there is: \"a report on the performance of NAMA including a specific analysis on the potential for higher returns to the State had the property portfolio been managed for longer rather than sold off.\"  I argue the Irish people deserve nothing less. It is their money. It is their children who were forced to emigrate because of the policies of Fianna F\u00e1il at that time, because of how Fianna F\u00e1il wrecked the economy, because it cosied up to the bankers and developers and bust not only the banking situation but also the construction situation and had our public finances in such a weak position that so much damage was done. As we wind up NAMA in this legislation, it is important that the full truth is exposed and that everybody knows what the missed opportunity was here, what NAMA was tasked with and why it did not recover more than the \u20ac5 billion additional it did recover. That is the question.  I do not know what the Government is hiding from. I do not know why the Government does not want the Irish people to know that. Is it because the Minister of State knows, in his heart of hearts, that NAMA should have recovered a lot more, that there was political interference in relation to the strategy in terms of the vulture funds? I believe that is the case. Otherwise the Minister of State may surprise me, support this amendment and allow the public to have what we are asking for, a report. That is all we are asking for. Just show the public the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That is what we are asking for so please support the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Did Deputy O'Callaghan raise his hand? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  Yes, but thank you for the encouragement. My amendment No. 3 is very similar to amendment No. 1 from Deputy Doherty. There is a slight difference in that I am being move generous in the timeline being afforded to the Minister to make this report.  The fundamental point here is that the public has a right to know. They should get this information. I made the point on Committee Stage that, with NAMA there was a massive lost opportunity in terms of what could have been delivered in affordable housing for people. NAMA took on 60,000 individual assets, sites, land banks that should and could have been used to create affordable housing for the people of this country. That would have made a massive difference and would have meant we were not in the housing crisis that we are now. Instead, we saw land banks and in some cases housing almost completely finished and unfinished housing sold on at discount rates that was then often bought back by the State or financed by the State through long-term leases and so forth. It was a terribly bad use of money and terrible value for money.  I think a report like this would help shed some light on this and on some of the impact of this failure. As I have said before, it is not the individuals working in NAMA where the failing was here. The failing here was the political direction given to it by Government. Whatever about at the start, as prices were recovering and as there was a change going on in the housing supply conditions and prices, at that point, at the very latest, the Government should have intervened and redirected NAMA towards not just recovery in terms of price, but also in terms of making sure one of its key aims was affordable housing.  To this very day, while things are done in terms of affordable housing, if we look at our planning system and our housing system in general there is not enough of that at all directed at affordable housing. It should be one of the core aims we are trying to achieve. It should have been for NAMA and it should be something we are trying to do through the planning system and through our housing delivery system. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Robert Troy)  I thank the Deputies for tabling these amendments. While I fully appreciate and understand the intent behind them, I am not in a position to accept them. This matter has been considered in detail at pre-legislative scrutiny, Second Stage and Committee Stage.  I agree that scrutiny of NAMA's performance and of the value delivered to the taxpayer is both appropriate and important. However, I must again set out why this amendment is neither necessary nor feasible. First, NAMA's performance has been subject to extensive oversight throughout its lifetime. Its annual and quarterly accounts were laid before the Oireachtas and audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. The Department of Finance conducted statutory five-year reviews and the Comptroller and Auditor General has also taken independent reviews including one published as recently as last month. Taken together, these provide a comprehensive and independent evidence base on NAMA's performance.  Second, the available evidence indicates that NAMA has met and, in some respects, exceeded its objectives. It delivered a lifetime contribution of \u20ac5.6 billion to the State and eliminated a significant contingent liability through the early redemption of its senior debt.  The Comptroller and Auditor General estimates a lifetime return of 6.8%, compared to the initial expectation of 5%. More broadly, NAMA is widely regarded internationally as a successful example of a state-backed asset management agency.  Turning to the substance of the amendment, there are clear, practical and legal limitations. NAMA did not acquire property assets directly. It acquired and managed loans secured on property, with the assets remaining in the ownership of debtors or receivers. Once loans were resolved or the underlying asset disposed of, they exited the NAMA system. NAMA's mandate, as set by the Oireachtas, was to deal with its portfolio expeditiously. It was never intended to operate as a long-term asset holder nor would it have been appropriate to attend assets on a speculative basis in the hope of future price increases.  The recent report by Professor John FitzGerald provides useful context. It notes that despite the Government facing external pressure to accelerate disposals, NAMA adhered to its strategy and, in doing so, was able to maximise value. The report concluded that this was the right approach. As market conditions improved, many borrowers refinanced or repaid their loans. In such cases, loans exited the NAMA system and the agency could not, and should not, have prevented this. This is a normal feature of a recovering financial system. It is also the case that in the post-crisis environment, debt levels in many instances exceeded underlying asset values. In that context, agreed disposal strategies were a necessary part of deleveraging and reflected the financial realities of the time. As a result, NAMA does not systematically retain or control information on subsequent resale values or updated valuations.  Constructing such a database retrospectively would require extensive third-party data, much of which are not publicly available or are commercially sensitive. More fundamentally, even if such data were available, the proposal would be inherently counterfactual. It relies on assumptions about future market conditions, financing costs and risks that cannot be reliably reconstructed. It does not reflect the context in which NAMA operated - a distressed market, significant uncertainty and a statutory obligation to reduce risk and dispose of assets over time and not to speculate on future price movements. Subsequent valuations taken in isolation do not provide a reliable basis for assessing decisions taken at the time. In many cases, assets were further developed, restructured or invested in after disposal and any uplift in value reflects those subsequent actions. This is not unique to NAMA but a normal feature of property markets.  Crucially, only the property owner holds the full information on post-sale investment, including capital and operating costs. This information is essential to any robust comparison but is not accessible, even to the Department of Finance. Without it, any analysis would be incomplete and potentially misleading. There are also strict, statutory confidentiality obligations limiting the disclosure of debtor-specific or commercially sensitive information. These obligations continue after NAMA's dissolution.  It is important to consider the broader context. NAMA has delivered a strong return to the State, repaid its debt in full and substantially completed its mandate, and successfully managed a complex and high-risk portfolio by supporting financial stability. NAMA was established to manage impaired loans, not to hold assets indefinitely in anticipation of future gains. It operated within a statutory and state aid framework that required it manage and dispose of assets over time. A speculative holding strategy would have exposed the State to ongoing risk and delayed deleveraging and would have potentially hindered economic recovery. In that context, comparison with later market values does not provide a meaningful basis for assessing decisions taken at the time nor is it well-founded to assume that assets could simply have been held longer to generate higher returns.  While the objective of transparency is fully accepted, the approach proposed in this amendment would neither be feasible nor produce meaningful results. NAMA's performance has already been subject to extensive audit reporting and independent review and for those reasons, I will not accept the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  In regard to the reasons I outlined, I understand the Minister of State has to defend NAMA and his position but the facts speak for themselves. The Comptroller and Auditor General's facts also speak for themselves and for that reason, I am pressing the amendment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put and declared lost."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I move amendment No. 2:  In page 8, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:   \u201cReport on transfer of staff to NTMA   7. The Minister shall, within 1 month of the passing of this Act, prepare and lay before both Houses of the Oireachtas a report detailing all of the transfer of staff from NAMA to the NTMA, provide information on salary and if any existing vacancies were filled or new positions created within the NTMA in addition to the resolution unit.\u201d.  I also raised this with the Minister of State on Committee Stage. The bumper salary of the CEO of NAMA has turned into an ongoing saga and nobody wants to answer questions on it. The Government's fingerprints is all over this because, obviously, it wanted that individual to end up being in a wee cosy job it has earmarked for him as the housing tsar but that all fell asunder as well.  We have been stonewalled on this for months. Information should be available to the public as to whether the NAMA CEO is going to keep his \u20ac430,000 salary when he returns to the NTMA. That is a salary he has as a result of him being the CEO of NAMA. It was never intended for him to return from NAMA because the Government wanted him as the housing tsar until that fell apart, when the public was outraged that he would be paid so much to do what is essentially the Minister's job.  When that fell through, the section in the heads of the Bill that said all staff of NAMA, when it was wound up, would be transferred to the resolution unit of the NTMA to handle the residual activity was taken out of the legislation when it was published. We all know that the NAMA CEO will return to the NTMA but not to the resolution unit. What we do not know is whether he is going to keep his salary despite no longer being a CEO. What we also do not know if there is an existing vacancy at senior management team level or if that job is going to be created for him. What we are missing here is transparency, and I believe it is a disgrace in regard to transparency.  There should be no reason for secrecy or hidden information in this regard. We are talking about how public money is spent and how the Government is refusing to answer questions and has gone to great lengths to hide it from any real oversight. We are winding up NAMA. The Government produced legislation to say that everybody, including the CEO, was supposed to go into the resolution unit but it did not tell us at the time it published that legislation that it had another plan for the CEO. It wanted to second him and make him the housing tsar with a huge salary because it wanted its Minister, who was not up to the job, to have a dig-out from a housing tsar. Now, when that fell apart, the Government has had to create a new system and it will not give us any information on it.  This is not on because it is public money at the end of the day. The NAMA CEO is now going to go into a senior role in the NTMA. Is it being created for him? Is there a vacancy? Is one being created to justify him keeping a salary of \u20ac430,000? I have no idea because the Government will not give us the information and it is a scandal, in my view. It is a murky ending that is all too fitting for the role NAMA has played in our society.  Between Committee and Report Stages - because these questions were asked of him on Committee Stage - he should now know this information and he should put it on the public record in the House. I would be happy to hear that there is a vacancy with a reduced salary, that he will be taking that up, and that the Minister of State is transparent in giving us the criteria or the salary range. However, if it is just more stonewalling, what are we on the Opposition benches or the general public supposed to conclude from all of that? That is why we have tabled the amendment, which makes it clear that it is not acceptable that the Minister of State has made these types of arrangements and that we have within six months a report laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas detailing all the transfer of staff from NAMA to the NTMA, providing information on salary and whether any existing vacancies were filled or new positions created within the NTMA, in addition to the resolution unit.  Outside of all that, we do not need the report. What we need is just a bit of transparency and a bit of upfrontness from the Government. It was because of all this dodgy cageyness and not being transparent with the public that the Government's plans for the CEO of NAMA fell through. It created a wee job for him, somebody the public perceived as an insider who was already in a well-paid position. That is no disrespect to the individual himself but the Government created the situation and put him in that situation.  Now, the Minister of State is in a position where he is not being transparent. We do not know where the CEO is going. We do not know if there is a job being created. We do not know if a vacancy exists within the NTMA. This is all basic information that should be said in public. It should be said that there is a vacancy at senior management level in the NTMA, the salary range is between \u20ac150,000 and \u20ac250,000 for those types of management roles, and that is where he is going in because he was seconded from  it. That would bring transparency to this situation or it might be a case, because I do not know, that a position is being created for the CEO, he will retain his salary of \u20ac400,000 or maybe he will take a wee cut of \u20ac50,000 - he will still be on \u20ac380,000 - and we are creating a job for him because the job does not exist, but he was not supposed to go there because the job the Government had for him fell through because he has handled it arseways. Therefore, will the Minister of State please tell us what is happening with the CEO of  NAMA? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I will respond to the amendment that was put down, which is relates to the transfer of staff, not one individual staff member. I thank Deputy Doherty for bringing forward this amendment which proposes to amend the legislation to require us reporting on staff from NAMA to the NTMA, including salary information.  As outlined on Committee Stage, the legislation does not include any provisions relating to the transfer of staff from NAMA to the NTMA. The general scheme of the Bill, published in 2024, had included a standard provision to provide for the transfer of staff, reflecting precedents in other similar legislation. However, following further engagement with NAMA and the NTMA, it became clear that no statutory mechanism is necessary in this case. This is because NAMA does not employ staff in its own right. All individuals working in NAMA have always have been employees of the NTMA assigned to perform NAMA functions. Accordingly, there is no transfer of employment arising from the dissolution of NAMA and therefore the premise of the transfer of staff does not arise in fact or in law. In practical terms, a small number of staff will be assigned to a dedicated unit within the NTMA to manage the limited residual work that will remain following NAMA's dissolution. This is not a new statutory structure but a functional unit operating within the NTMA's existing operational governance and resourcing framework. The roles within the unit are aligned with the completion of the residual work and the work itself is simply being integrated into the ongoing operations of the NTMA. When operational, the unit's eight staff are expected to comprise a head of unit, two finance professionals, two operational professionals, two better case managers and one legal professional. The head of the unit will report to the NTMA's chief financial and operating officer and the unit will be supported by the NTMA's wider operational platform including IT, compliance, human resources and facilities. No additional stand-alone corporate infrastructure is required.  It is also important to recognise the broader organisational context. The NTMA is a large established State body with approximately 688 employees at the end of 2025, excluding those assigned to NAMA. While the dissolution of NAMA is a significant step reflecting the fact that it has largely concluded its operational work, the assignment of a small number of staff to a specific function within the NTMA is an internal organisational matter. While the Deputy does not specifically refer to the position of chief executive officer in his amendment, he does in his contribution. I again note that this role will cease on the dissolution of NAMA as the legislative basis for the position is repealed. The current CEO has been a permanent employee of the NTMA operating in a senior executive role before NAMA's establishment. He will transition within the organisation under his existing contractual framework. This does not involve a new appointment but reflects the normal reassignment of an NTMA employee following organisational change. As with all NTMA staff, matters relating to assignments, roles and individual contractual terms are managed within the agency. Neither the T\u00e1naiste, as Minister for Finance, or I have any role in such arrangements.  Turning to the remuneration, the NTMA operates within an established statutory and governance framework. It complies fully with the code of practise for the governance of State bodies and provides transparency through its annual report, including the publication of employee remuneration in bands of \u20ac25,000, beginning with those earning in excess of \u20ac50,000. This ensures appropriate public accountability at an aggregate level. It would not be appropriate to publish salary information relating to individual employees. Such information constitutes personal data and is subject to contractual confidentiality and data protection requirements. Staff assigned to the resolution unit will be captured within the existing NTMA reporting arrangements in the same manner as staff across all other functional areas of the NTMA. More broadly, the NTMA is an established State body with its own statutory functions, governance structures and accountability arrangements. Decisions related to staffing, organisational structure and the allocation of roles within the agency are matters for the NTMA itself operating within that framework. In that context, the additional reporting requirements proposed in this amendment are neither necessary nor proportionate. The amendment is predicated on a transfer of staff that does not arise as all NAMA staff are employed by the NTMA and there is no transfer of staff under the legislation. The information sought is also already either publicly available at an appropriate level of aggregation or relates to matters that are governed within NTMA's existing oversight and confidentiality framework. For these reasons, I am not in the position to accept the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  For the reasons that we are no wiser after the five-minute contribution from the Minister of State in relation to whether the CEO of NAMA is going to go into the NTMA on \u20ac430,000, whether there is going to be a vacancy there or whether a job is going to be created, I will press the amendment because, obviously, no light has been shone by the Minister of State on this issue. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Cathal Crowe)  Is the amendment being pressed? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I would like to come in. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Cathal Crowe)  The Minister of State may go ahead. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I would make the point that the current CEO of NAMA had been a permanent employee of the NTMA since before NAMA's establishment. The NAMA CEO position will cease on the dissolution of NAMA. At that point, he will continue as an NTMA employee under his existing employment framework and individual contract. This does not involve a new appointment or, indeed, any special arrangement but reflects his ongoing status as an NTMA employee. He has not been newly appointed or accommodated. Rather, his role is changing following the dissolution of NAMA, and any future role he takes within the organisation is a matter for the current CEO of the NTMA and he will report within the NTMA structure. He will not be the Accounting Officer. He will not be the CEO of the NTMA. As with all staff, his contractual rights as an employee continue to apply. Matters relating to individual contacts are the responsibility of the CEO and the NTMA and are not determined by the Minister. Neither I, as Minister of State, or, indeed, the senior Minister have any role in individual contractual terms and conditions or assignments within the NTMA. The CEO of the NTMA is appointed through an open competitive process and is accountable to the Committee of Public Accounts and the staff underneath him are accountable to the CEO. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I still have no more answers from what the Minister of State said. We still do not know what the salary scale is going to be, whether the job at senior level has been created, whether he is going to keep his \u20ac430,000 or whether the contract he has at the minute will actually be remuneration, which entitles him not just to \u20ac430,000 but a bonus of a portion of that. I think it is about 25% on an annual basis. In fairness, he has never accepted it to my knowledge. I stand to be corrected, but that is the case. Therefore, because we have no information and we are asking to wind up an agency where the individual will transfer, I am pressing the amendment. It is ridiculous that we do not have this information. It will come out sometime. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Cathal Crowe)  Okay. So, the amendment is being pressed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  We will have to wait for the publication of the annual report. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  It will not come out in the annual report because as the Minister of State said, he is not an Accounting Officer. Therefore, we will never have----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  In an aggregated----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  There is never a responsibility for him to publish what he is getting. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  In an aggregated format. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  He could go into the NTMA and he could be paid \u20ac1 million and we would never know. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Cathal Crowe)  The debate is finished. I am going to put the amendment. The question is that the amendment----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Hold on, with respect, the proposer of the amendment has three opportunities. I only took two. I am the only person who has a third opportunity. Is that okay? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Cathal Crowe)  Okay. Proceed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Let me make the point again.  This information will never come to light under the reporting, in the way the Minister of State suggests, because the former CEO of NAMA will not be an accounting officer. As CEO of NAMA, he had to disclose his wages, but now that he is going back into the NTMA, he does not. He is not an accounting officer, so it will not be reported. The issue here is that hypothetically he could be going back in on a million quid and we would never know. We would never know he would be paid that amount of money. We would have to deduce it was him, somebody else or whoever. The Minister of State is asking us to support legislation that is the transfer of his position into the NTMA. As I have said, the Minister of State has had two opportunities to address this issue. He has failed to address it. He has failed to tell us whether it is a new position or whether it is a position that is in vacancy. Again, if the Minister of State told me that there was a vacancy at senior management level and that the range of those senior management levels was X and Y, that would bring the issue to the conclusion. There is a huge issue around this here because this is somebody the Department never wanted to go into the NTMA. It wanted him to be the housing tsar on a huge salary. That fell through and now the Minister of State is not being transparent. I press the amendment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put and declared lost."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cian O'Callaghan  I move amendment No. 3:  In page 8, after line 34, to insert the following:   \u201cReport on NAMA managed properties   10. The Minister shall, within 6 months of the passing of this Act, lay a report before both Houses of the Oireachtas that provides a table outlining all NAMA managed properties, their value at the time of their sale, compared to their current or most recent valuation.\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put and declared lost."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Cathal Crowe)  We move on to amendment No. 4 in the name of the Minister. It arises out of committee proceedings. Amendments Nos. 4 to 8, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I move amendment No. 4:  In page 17, to delete lines 35 to 43, and in page 18, to delete lines 1 and 2 and substitute the following:  \u201c \u2018residual NAMA matter\u2019 means any asset, liability, right, cause of action, entitlement or obligation of any nature or kind, or legal proceedings, that immediately before the dissolution day was an asset, liability, right, cause of action, entitlement or obligation of any nature or kind of, or relating to, NAMA or a NAMA group entity and, in the case of legal proceedings, were legal proceedings to which NAMA or a NAMA group entity was a party or which were otherwise relating to NAMA or a NAMA group entity, and which on and after the dissolution day is an asset, liability, right, cause of action, entitlement or obligation of, or relating to, the Agency or a subsidiary of the Agency, as the case may be, or, in the case of legal proceedings, are legal proceedings to which the Agency or a subsidiary of the Agency is a party or which are otherwise relating to the Agency or a subsidiary of the Agency, as the case may be;\u201d.  I flagged on Committee Stage that I intended to introduce a small number of amendments to Part 4 of the Bill on behalf of the Minister for Finance. These amendments are technical in nature and are designed to ensure clarity and consistency in the drafting of the legislation. As Deputies will be aware, the Bill provides for the orderly wind-down of NAMA and for the transfer of any residual matters to the NTMA for management to completion, including the continuation of any ongoing proceedings. The Bill also facilitates the conclusion of the IBRC special liquidation, with provision for any remaining residual matters to transfer to the NTMA for management to completion by way of transfer agreement entered into between the relevant parties. A key element of that process is ensuring the seamless continuation of any outstanding matters, including ongoing legal proceedings, with provision for the substitution of the NTMA in place of NAMA and the IBRC as appropriate in such proceedings, along with the continuation of associated rights and obligations. In that context, the amendments being brought relate to the terminology used in Part 4 and ensure clarity and consistency in how references to proceedings are expressed across the relevant positions. This is simply to ensure that the provisions operate clearly and consistently in practice. These amendments are purely technical in nature and do not alter the underlying policy intent of the Bill in any way. The policy remains unchanged, namely to ensure the effective transfer of residual functions, assets, liabilities and legal matters to the NTMA, and to allow those matters to be brought to an orderly conclusion. I therefore commend these amendments to the House. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I move amendment No. 5:  In page 20, line 2, after \u201cproceedings\u201d to insert \u201cof any nature or kind (including legal proceedings)\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I move amendment No. 6:  In page 27, line 36, after \u201cto\u201d where it firstly occurs to insert \u201clegal\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I move amendment No. 7:  In page 28, line 12, after \u201cany\u201d to insert \u201clegal\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I move amendment No. 8:  In page 28, lines 25 to 27, to delete all words from and including \u201cin\u201d in line 25 down to and including \u201cmatters\u201d in line 27 and substitute \u201c, in relation to any relevant residual matter\u201d. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Bill, as amended, received for final consideration and passed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Cathal Crowe)  We will now proceed to the voting block. I thank Members. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"National Treasury Management Agency (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026: Report Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 and Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009: Motions (Resumed)","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Jim O'Callaghan on Tuesday, 23 June 2026:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann resolves that sections 2 to 4, 6 to 12, 14 and 17 of the Offences against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 (No. 39 of 1998) shall continue in operation for the period beginning on 30th June, 2026 and ending on 29th June, 2027."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"- (Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration)"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To insert the following after \"ending on 29th June, 2027\":"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\"; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 calls on the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration to bring forward legislation to give effect to the recommendations of the Independent Review Group without further delay.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"- (Deputy Matt Carthy)"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"An Ceann Comhairle: I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding the Offences Against the State Act. On Tuesday, 23 June 2026, on the question, \"That the amendment to the motion be agreed to\", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Motion agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Jim O'Callaghan on Tuesday, 23 June 2026:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann resolves that section 8 of the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009 (No. 32 of 2009) shall continue in operation for the period beginning on 30th June, 2026 and ending on 29th June, 2027."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"- (Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration)"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009. On Tuesday, 23 June 2026, on the question, \"That motion be agreed to\", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 and Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009: Motions (Resumed)"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-24\/debate\/dbsect_41","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"State Responsibility for Foundation Retention Risk in Defective Concrete Homes: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_41","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Charles Ward on Wednesday, 24 June 2026:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 thousands of homeowners affected by defective concrete have spent years living with uncertainty regarding the safety of their homes, the adequacy of available remediation options and the long-term security of their families;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 many affected families have experienced repeated changes in engineering advice, evolving scientific understanding and revisions to the redress scheme throughout that period;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 for homeowners undertaking remediation works, decisions regarding whether existing foundations should be retained or replaced are among the most significant and irreversible choices they will make;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014the Defective Concrete Blocks Grant Scheme permits the retention of existing foundations in affected dwellings in accordance with the updated National Standards Authority of Ireland I.S. (Irish Standard) 465:2026;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 research underpinning I.S. 465:2026 has identified pyrrhotite and other sulphide minerals in the concrete foundations of affected homes, with evidence of oxidation and early-stage internal sulphate attack in some cases;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the scientific basis underpinning I.S. 465:2026 remains limited in duration, scale and longitudinal evidence, and does not conclusively establish long-term foundation performance;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 as a result, I.S. 465:2026 operates in circumstances of acknowledged material scientific uncertainty regarding long-term structural durability; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 affected homeowners are being required to make decisions about retaining or remediating foundations in conditions of that uncertainty, with significant financial, legal and psychological consequences;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"recognises that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the State is relying on I.S. 465:2026 as the governing technical standard for remediation decisions, despite acknowledged scientific uncertainty in its underpinning evidence;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 where the State adopts a Standard in conditions of uncertainty, it must bear responsibility for managing resulting long-term structural risk and not transfer it to individual homeowners;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 homeowners should not be exposed to future liability or repeated remediation costs arising from limitations in the scientific evidence base underpinning the Standard; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 in circumstances where failure mechanisms may be latent, progressive and not fully observable within assessment timeframes, policy must err decisively on the side of homeowner protection; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"calls on the Government to:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 commission an independent international review of the scientific basis of I.S. 465:2026, with specific focus on sulphide-related deterioration mechanisms in foundation concrete and their long-term behaviour;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 publish in full the evidential basis, assumptions and uncertainty ranges used to justify foundation retention under I.S. 465:2026;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 amend the operation of the Defective Concrete Blocks Grant Scheme to ensure that no homeowner is required to retain foundations where there is material engineering uncertainty regarding long-term durability;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 provide an explicit entitlement for homeowners to opt for full foundation replacement where reasonable doubt exists as to future performance;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 ensure that responsibility for residual long-term structural risk arising from application of I.S. 465:2026 remains with the State and not individual homeowners; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 report to D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann within six months on the implementation of these measures and on any revision required to I.S. 465:2026 in light of emerging scientific evidence."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Defective Concrete Blocks Grant Scheme (DCB Scheme), which provides grants to help those affected by defective concrete blocks to remediate their homes, is underpinned by the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 (2022 Act);"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 over 3,500 homeowners are now at various stages of the DCB Scheme, and will be supported with grants for 100 per cent of eligible expenditure up to a maximum cap of \u20ac462,000 per household, and this represents a 10 per cent increase in the maximum cap since the DCB Scheme launched in 2023;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 more than \u20ac336 million has been spent on the DCB Scheme to date, with a commitment to more than doubling the level of funding for 2026 to \u20ac175 million, and to continue higher investment levels over the entire period of the National Development Plan 2026-2030;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the DCB Scheme is actively helping homeowners to rebuild their homes, allowing them to move on with their lives;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 over 500 homes have been fully remediated to date, with approximately 750 more currently at various stages of construction;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 additional counties continue to be added to the DCB Scheme, clearly showing the Government's commitment to help all those affected by the legacy defects caused by defective blocks;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the legislation refers to I.S. (Irish Standard) 465:2018, the Standard which provides for the assessment, testing and categorisation of damaged buildings incorporating concrete blocks containing certain deleterious material, which was published in November 2018, and the 2018 version of the Standard did not require any testing of foundations as there has never been any evidence of damage to foundations, and the DCB Scheme and the underpinning legislation make no provision for such testing;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 in November 2021, as Ireland's official standards body, the National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI) was tasked by the Government with a special review of the concrete Standard, this review started in March 2022, and has been conducted by the TC 63 Concrete Blocks Committee of the NSAI, membership of this Committee included representatives of the concrete industry, Engineers Ireland, the Geological Survey Ireland, homeowner action groups, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Housing Agency; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 a new revised Standard, I.S. 465:2026, was recently published by the NSAI on 2nd June, 2026, and the revised Standard is based on new research in the area, it entails quite significant changes from the previous Standard in that, under the new Standard, almost all houses with defective concrete blocks would be demolished, and furthermore, the Standard provides for the testing of the foundations of each house in case they may be found to be affected at some point in the future, notwithstanding that there are no current cases of damage to foundations; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"agrees that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 aspects of the changes entailed by the new Standard require detailed consideration in terms of the DCB Scheme, and could entail significant financial implications for the State if adopted under the DCB Scheme;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the 2022 Act requires that the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shall, on the publication of the revised Standard, undertake a review of the legislation, the Act also requires that, not later than three months after the completion of the review, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shall make a report to each House of the Oireachtas of their findings and conclusions resulting from the review, and it is intended that this formal review of the DCB Scheme will be initiated by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shortly;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 existing DCB Scheme participants who have already received their determination under I.S. 465:2018 will have the choice to continue with their works;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the review will focus, as per the provisions of Section 51 of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022, on the operation of the Act in the first instance, with all matters relating to the introduction of I.S. 465:2026 and its interaction with the DCB Scheme being considered as part of the review, and this will include the matter of foundations; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage will consider all implications of the new I.S. 465:2026, and make recommendations to the Government on any proposed changes to the DCB Scheme as soon as possible.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"- (Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage)"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I must now deal with a postponed division relating to State responsibility for foundation retention risk in defective concrete homes. On Tuesday, 23 June 2026, on the question, \"That the amendment to the motion be agreed to\", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 9.47 p.m. go dt\u00ed 8.47 a.m., D\u00e9ardaoin, an 25 Meitheamh 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 9.47 p.m. until 8.47 a.m. on Thursday, 25 June 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"State Responsibility for Foundation Retention Risk in Defective Concrete Homes: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-06-24"},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-06-30T02:11:57+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-06-23","counts":{"contributorCount":170,"divisionCount":1,"debateSectionCount":31,"questionCount":14,"billCount":3},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":21,"speakerCount":7},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  \"T\u00e1im ag iarraidh go nglacfaidh an Rialtas lena fhreagracht agus, ar a laghad, go dtabharfaidh siad s\u00edoch\u00e1in d\u00fainn ag deireadh \u00e1r r\u00e9.\" Is iad seo na focail \u00f3 bhean amh\u00e1in de chuid mhn\u00e1 Dh\u00fan Dar\u00fa. Is marthan\u00f3ir\u00ed iad a bh\u00ed tar \u00e9is m\u00ed-\u00fas\u00e1id ghn\u00e9asach uaf\u00e1sach a fhulaingt i Scoil N\u00e1isi\u00fanta Dh\u00fan Dar\u00fa i gCorcaigh sna seascaid\u00ed agus sna seacht\u00f3id\u00ed. An inseoidh an Taoiseach d\u00f3ibh inniu go nd\u00e9anfaidh s\u00e9 an rud ceart agus go gcuirfidh s\u00e9 c\u00faiteamh ar f\u00e1il sa d\u00f3igh at\u00e1 ceart agus gan tuilleadh moille?  The following are the words of one of the Dunderrow women:  I want the Government to take responsibility and to at least give us peace at the end of our time. I'm here suffering along with fellow victims who went to a school that was run by the State, and this was done to innocent children. It's totally wrong, totally unfair. I want justice.  These women are survivors of horrific sexual abuse inflicted on children by teacher Leo Hickey at Dunderrow National School in Cork in the sixties and seventies. They have now broken their silence in their quest for justice and for compensation for the State's failure to protect them.  The Taoiseach will recall how Louise O'Keeffe, one of Hickey's victims, spent years courageously battling for the State to take responsibility and provide redress. In fact, the Taoiseach was the Minister for education who fought Louise through the Irish courts back in 1998. She was forced to take her case all the way to the European Court of Human Rights and she won that case in 2014. The court found that the State had an obligation to protect children from sexual abuse in State-run schools and to provide redress to survivors.  The judgment meant the State had to pay compensation to Louise O'Keeffe but the Irish courts found it was not just her who was abused in that school. We are talking about women whose children were abused by the same person in the same school during the same period but, 12 and a half years on from the European Court of Human Rights judgment, these women are still waiting, still being ignored and still having to fight the State to own up to its responsibilities.  These women are told that they cannot access compensation because they have not previously taken a legal case against the State. Seriously, is the Taoiseach not going to do the right thing for these women who were abused because of some technicality? The State, true to form, wants to drag these women through the courts and wants to force them to take on expensive legal proceedings to get compensation. We have seen this all before, and we know it is cruel. These are women who are now in their 60s and 70s who suffered appalling sexual abuse at the time and whose children were catastrophically failed by the State. It is shameful what is happening to them. The women have suffered enough. They are being retraumatised and being forced into a position where they must sue the State to get what they are entitled to by law, and that is wrong and we all know that.  Louise O'Keeffe summed up the injustice perfectly when she said, \"I was abused by Leo Hickey in Dunderrow school. The Dunderrow women were also abused by Leo Hickey in Dunderrow school. It is time to give these women the redress that is theirs. It is time to do what is right.\" I am asking the Taoiseach today to bring this to an end. I asking him to tell them today that he will do what is right. I asking him to tell them that he will provide redress without any further delay. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The abuse carried out by Leo Hickey was evil, horrific and deeply harmful to many people who were children at the time that he was in Dunderrow National School in the 1960s. I do appreciate and I am fully conscious of the enormous trauma experienced by the survivors of sexual abuse in that school and abuse carried out by Leo Hickey. It is important that their voices are heard and listened to. In 2014, the European Court of Human Rights found that in respect of day schools the State failed in its obligation in specific circumstances to protect Louise O'Keeffe from sexual abuse by Leo Hickey. This was not the Irish courts but the European Court of Human Rights.  The key issue was the absence of any safeguarding advices or Children First guidelines. All of that was not in place at the time. That was not advised to what was a diocesan school at the time. That was the key underlying reason for the decision of the European Court of Human Rights. Since then, a number of measures have been put in place to implement the judgment, including an ex gratia payment scheme. That said, in 2015 the then Government established an ex gratia scheme of payments for victims of abuse by teachers and other school employees that was designed to ensure the implementation of the judgment. However, that scheme was not adequate at all, and it was reviewed in 2019 by an independent assessor, Mr. Justice Iarfhlaith O'Neill. This involves some who were in Dunderrow but others who were not in Dunderrow. The scope of the scheme was expanded following Mr. Justice O'Neill's conclusions and there was a more straightforward process. Some 193 applications were made to the revised ex gratia scheme and a total of \u20ac10.75 million has issued to about 128 approved applicants. The scheme closed to applications in July 2023.  Meanwhile, as Members know, the scoping inquiry into historical sexual abuse in day and boarding schools more generally run by religious orders published in 2024 recognised the significance of the issues for survivors and their expressed wish that those running those schools where sexual abuse occurred should be held accountable financially. An interdepartmental group was then established in the aftermath of the scoping report to work on each of the recommendations, particularly in the context of redress. The interdepartmental group recognised that consideration of a redress payment scheme, more generally, has far-reaching implications and it is doing further detailed work in respect of that.  The survivors of the abuse by Leo Hickey from Dunderrow, through their legal representatives, have sought mediation. As I have said, legal advice is that we would enter into mediation. We will enter into a mediation in good faith and we will engage constructively.  I said that earlier this morning. Admha\u00edm gur fhulaing na mn\u00e1 agus na dalta\u00ed go han-mh\u00f3r ar fad as ucht an m\u00e9id a rinne an m\u00fainteoir Leo Hickey. Bh\u00ed s\u00e9 uaf\u00e1sach agus go hainnis. Admha\u00edm go bhfuil tr\u00e1ma faoi leith ann do na daoine at\u00e1 f\u00f3s ag fulaingt as ucht an m\u00e9id a rinne s\u00e9. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  The plea from the survivors of the abuse at Dunderrow is: give us peace at the end of our days; we want justice. They are asking how long do they have to wait? This goes right back to 1998 when the Taoiseach was the Minister at the time. That is nearly 30 years ago. It is twelve and a half years since the European court made a judgment that the State was liable and we are hearing words from Ministers and taoisigh about mediation and about listening when the survivors are asking for peace at the end of their days and for justice. I am asking the Taoiseach a very simple question because he knows. Louise O'Keeffe had to win her case and fight her battles in the European court and have compensation paid to her but the Taoiseach knows that the Irish courts have made it very clear that other women were abused in that school by the same teacher at the same time. Will the Taoiseach say to these women that, yes, compensation will be paid to them, that we hear them and we see them and that we are going to set this right? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  To set the record straight, back in 1998 and 1999 the issue was industrial schools. I created a commission into abuse that happened in industrial schools. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire  The first proceedings were lodged in 1998. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I want to put that on the record. It was the first time ever any Irish Government established a commission of inquiry into abuse in schools and that was in the context of industrial schools. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  The Taoiseach was named in the Louise O'Keeffe case, in fairness. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I want to make that point. It was many years later when this particular case came to the Irish courts and then it went on to the European Court of Human Rights. That said, various ex gratia payment schemes were developed in respect of Dunderrow and others who were party to the case at the European court. As I said earlier, about 193 applications were made. About 128 were approved under the ex gratia payment scheme. We are going to enter into remediation at this stage in good faith. We have a wider issue which the interdepartmental group is examining in terms of both redress and the implications of all that for the State, for survivors and for religious orders in terms of their culpability and accountability in respect of contributing to redress. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  I want to read into the record the testimonies of two women who were sexually abused by Leo Hickey, their principal in Dunderrow National School in Kinsale. One said:  Sometimes while abusing me with his right hand, I would see him put his left hand inside the clothes on the lower part of the body of the girl beside me. Again, this could last for the duration of the class.  Another said:  I remember feeling something hard pressed against the small of my back and I remember wondering what this hard object was. I thought it was something in his pocket. This seemed to happen for a long time, but it probably lasted about ten minutes. I remember wanting to get out to play before the break would be over ...  These women and 17 of their schoolmates are, rightly, seeking redress for what was done to them as children. They were failed by every system that was supposed to protect them and they are still being failed today.  Leo Hickey was eventually convicted while the State managed to evade all responsibility. I spoke to Louise O'Keeffe today, who spent 16 years fighting to change that. The State fought her, in her words, \"tooth and nail\" every step of the way, pursuing her through the courts and aggressively seeking legal costs against her. In 2014, she finally won at the European Court of Human Rights, which found the State had failed in its duty to protect children.  That judgment should have been a turning point. Instead, in a textbook Irish Government approach to how it treats survivors of abuse, the redress scheme excluded the very people it was supposed to help. Incredibly, 19 victims of Leo Hickey - women whose evidence helped secure his conviction - have been denied redress. Their testimony was good enough for the criminal court but somehow is not good enough for the State. It is unbelievable.  In 2019, the Taoiseach stood on this side of the House and said that the O'Keeffe judgment demands that every child who experienced sexual abuse in a defective child protection framework in schools be compensated for that abuse. He also said that redress should not wait for the results of any commission of investigation. Survivors do not need another review, report or excuse. They need a Government willing to do what the Taoiseach himself called for.  I have two questions. Does the Taoiseach recognise the ruling of the European Court of Human Rights and if so, will he commit to providing fair redress to all survivors without arbitrary barriers? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First of all, I thank the Deputy for again raising this issue. As I have said, the abuse committed by Leo Hickey was horrific and unconscionable. The suffering and trauma people went through because of him has been life lasting. The Deputy is correct that in 2019, I advocated very strongly that the original redress scheme of 2015 was far too limited. That led to the appointment of Mr. Justice Iarfhlaith O'Neill to recommend an expansion of the ex gratia payment scheme. That is what I have already referenced; that opened it up to some degree back then to 128 people. Obviously, not all were in Dunderrow but I did not have the identities of all of them. I represented one or two people myself from outside of Dunderrow, who had come to me as a TD at the time because I was not in Government then. That person would have received compensation at the time but even that is at a modest level, if I am honest.  The legal representatives wrote to the Attorney General last week. As I said, we are going to engage in a constructive way and I do want to see a resolution of this. There are also wider implications in the context of what emerged in the last number of years in some religious-run secondary schools, which led to the scoping inquiry that recommended a full inquiry - which we have established - into abuse in primary schools and all schools across the country. There is also the issue of redress and how that would be handled. An interdepartmental group was established to deal with that, which will have far-reaching implications all round but also with regard to accountability and responsibility.  The established mechanism was that where schools were run by the diocesan authorities or by religious orders, it was those that were primarily culpable in terms of abuse that happened. In the context of Dunderrow, of course, in the 1960s, this was pre any official guidelines from the State or Government to these patron bodies in respect of safeguarding children and guidelines that we have today, like Children First. We have a far greater framework of laws and guidelines to try and protect children, which did not exist then. That is the area where the European court found the State culpable in respect of adequate safeguarding not being provided to schools at that particular time. We will take this forward and revert to the House in due course. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  What the Taoiseach has highlighted is the well-established practice of the State. At the hands of the State, people are seriously and systematically abused. They try to seek justice. There is delay after delay, an interdepartmental group, a commission of investigation, and a redress scheme that is blatantly cruel and excludes the people who need it, then the State does it all again with another redress scheme that also does not work.  It is delay, delay and consult. The Taoiseach said today he should positively engage and listen to these people. I spoke to Louise O'Keeffe this morning. She said she met the Taoiseach in March 2025 and he said he would get back to her in a month. She has not heard from the Taoiseach since. This is not engaging positively.  She went to the European Court of Human Rights after fighting the State for over a decade. She won. Eighteen other people were abused in the same school by the same man. Their testimony was used in the criminal court to convict him but the Taoiseach will not take that as good enough to provide the redress these people have been waiting over a decade for. The Taoiseach will delay more with another interdepartmental group and another redress scheme. Why will he not commit to giving these people what they are entitled to now and end this despicable practice of disregarding survivors and delaying, delaying and delaying? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputies  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  It is not delay, delay, delay in respect of the mediation that has been sought by the representatives of the survivors of the abuse by Leo Hickey. We will engage in that mediation. There is a wider redress issue that has to be examined in the context of schools in general across the nation over the last number of decades. That is the point I am making. This has been in a legal framework for quite some time as well. I have no issue meeting with people but the Government has to resolve this as well and come to conclusions in respect of it. I am clear on what we need to do, specifically in terms of these survivors of this particular abuse but there will be others as well. There will be other schools and a need for further responses in different contexts. That was the idea of the overall comprehensive inquiry and the idea of the interdepartmental group to examine how we deal with all of these issues, not just in one or two schools but the generality of where abuse has taken place. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  Over recent days, we have once again been confronted with some of the darkest chapters in the history of this island. Yesterday saw the conviction of former DUP leader Jeffrey Donaldson for horrific sex offences against children. Today, survivors of systematic sexual abuse, perpetrated upon them by Leo Hickey at Dunderrow National School, have come forward to share their harrowing ordeal. Still excluded from existing State redress schemes, they are calling for an effective route to recognition for the horrific campaign of abuse they suffered as children. Last night, we heard the final episode of RT\u00c9\u2019s \"Pirate Predator\" documentary, with renewed calls from survivors for an inquiry into the State\u2019s failures to apprehend the prolific and violent sex offender Eamon Cooke. Last week, we learned of the death of paedophile Bill Kenneally, whose crimes destroyed numerous young lives and many of whose victims are still seeking justice. I want to begin by paying tribute to every survivor of child sexual abuse. Survivors have shown extraordinary courage in coming forward. As they tell us, many are still fighting for justice and to be heard.  A common theme runs through these appalling cases of child sexual abuse: power and silence; abuse of power by monstrous predators; and silence from the institutions of both State and church that should have been protecting children. The church and the State have a duty to make amends for decades of their failures towards victims. We know the commission of investigation into abuse in schools is under way and that an interdepartmental group is examining options for future redress. That report is due in May next year. Its recommendations must be survivor-led. These may require significant legislative and policy reform, but there are things we can do now to deliver justice for survivors.  The first is in respect of the Dunderrow survivors. I spoke again today with a representative from the group of women. They want to see action. They heard what the Taoiseach said about listening to them but they want action and they want redress. Second, the T\u00e1naiste has said that religious orders must pay their fair share of redress - I agree with him and I welcome his comments. The Taoiseach will know that the Labour Party has a Bill before this House on Thursday in my name. It is a Bill to enable survivors of institutional child sexual abuse to pursue redress from religious orders, which have substantial assets. An analysis of finances from a sample group of congregations showed that collectively they had about \u20ac1.3 billion in cash and other assets. Yet, they owe the State \u20ac750 million in unpaid redress in respect of those who were abused in schools and institutions that were run by religious orders. Our Bill would end an indefensible practice from religious orders that purport to show moral leadership, yet are refusing to pay redress and are shifting assets to put them out of reach of survivors.  All institutions in both State and church that facilitated or enabled abuse of children should pay redress. We want to hear from the Taoiseach about justice and redress for Dunderrow survivors, and about what the Government attitude will be to our Bill on Thursday. Will it facilitate the Bill's passage? We have spoken before about it. The Taoiseach said he would refer it to the Attorney General and I know his interdepartmental group is looking at mechanisms to pursue religious orders for redress, but survivors cannot wait. The commission of investigation is not due to report for three or four years and the interdepartmental group in a year's time. There are things we can be doing now for survivors. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. If we look back over the last three decades, we have had numerous episodes or revelations pertaining to institutions both public and private in respect of child sexual abuse. It has been quite horrific. I refer to governments from about the late 1990s onwards and the 1999 period onwards when we first initiated the inquiry into industrial schools. I recall the anger when the State paid up close to \u20ac1 billion in redress. Everybody attacked the government of the day, of which I was a member, because the accusation was we left the religious off. I never accepted this fully by the way because I felt the State had culpability there too, in terms of inspectorial reports and so on. The State always had culpability in respect of its involvement in the industrial schools. As to the capacity to get money at the time, we did not want to put victims and survivors at that time through years and years of courts. Then, we had the swimming abuse inquiry. We had a series of diocesan inquiries, which the government initiated against Cloyne and against Dublin. I remember the Ferns inquiry, for example, and further abuses and revelations right up to the present day in respect of the Spiritans and of schools more generally.  We are now in a situation where we have a comprehensive commission of inquiry into schools, which we did not have before. The situation has evolved. There was a time prior to the nineties when the State did not habitually establish commissions of inquiry into abuse, but from the late 1990s onwards Irish society was opened up in many respects. It was not opened up completely, not comprehensively, but in many respects. A torrent of abuse has emerged in all aspects of life, it seems to me. We can look at the SAVI report going back along and the context in which it reported in respect of its estimations of the nature of abuse.  That said, on religious orders, the Government's position on the Labour Party's legislation will be a six-month timed amendment. We believe it aligns with Government policy. We are not in disagreement with the intent or purpose of what the Labour Party is proposing legislatively. We will support that. We are entering into mediation in respect of Dunderrow. We will try to progress that as quickly and as effectively as we can, while also knowing we have a broader issue to deal with, as the Deputy has said, in respect of the interdepartmental group. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  I certainly do not need a lecture on the vile history of child sexual abuse and State and church cover-up in this country. I represented survivors of abuse in the 1990s before the Residential Institutions Redress Board. I recall the flaws in that scheme, which I have spoken about before. I also recall the 2002 agreement, the shameful Michael Woods agreement, which capped the contribution of religious orders at a fraction of that \u20ac1.5 billion cost the Taoiseach rightly pointed out. Of course, religious orders should pay more, but given opportunities multiple times since 2002 they have failed to do so. That is why the Labour Party is proposing this constructive Bill. I welcome the Taoiseach's indication that the Government will support that Bill on Thursday and will look to see it brought into law as it aligns - as it absolutely should - with Government policy.  Over the decades since the Ryan report, with all of the revelations and all the bravery and courage of survivors, we have learned so much about church and State cover-ups. The practical steps we take now are what is important. I welcome the Taoiseach's comments on our redress Bill. It does offer a way forward. It gives the State leverage to pursue religious orders for unpaid redress. Second, I ask precisely what the Taoiseach means by mediation for the Dunderrow victims.  This group of 19 women are absolutely right to seek redress now in respect of the abuse they suffered at the hands of Leo Hickey. What does the Taoiseach mean by \"mediation\"? What is the timeline? Can these women secure redress before we see the very welcome further developments at a broader level through the interdepartmental group? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The legal representatives of the Dunderrow survivors have written to the Government and to the Minister inviting the Government to enter mediation with their clients with a view to resolving their claim against the State. That is what I said this morning. We will respond positively to that invitation. Those are the specifics of the request. This correspondence arrived in the past week or ten days. That is the factual and specific response to that point. On the broader issue, the interdepartmental group is due to report next year. We will see if we can bring that forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  In April of this year, 46% of our country's electricity came from wind and a further 7% came from solar. That 53% of our electricity or 1,300 GWh of clean renewable electricity in a single month. A key problem with the electricity system in Ireland is that we do not have the energy storage capacity to take full advantage of renewable energy when those conditions are right. At times, renewable producers are directed to create less energy than they have capacity to generate. The system uses technical language like \"curtailment\" or \"dispatch down\" for this but there is a simpler word, \"waste\". In the middle of a worldwide energy crisis, when Irish households' electricity bills are shooting up, renewable energy is being wasted at scale. According to EirGrid, in April 2026, 18% of wind energy was wasted.  This is why we need more energy storage in Ireland. The concept is simple. Battery storage captures renewable electricity when wind and solar production is high and releases it back onto our grid when demand is high. A significant number of battery storage systems have been granted planning permission here in Ireland. However, when Energy Storage Ireland presented to us in audiovisual room recently, the key barrier it set out was a lack of routes to market access. The last Government published the electricity storage policy framework in July 2024, almost two years ago. This included ten actions. Action 7 required the Taoiseach's Government to set a long-term target for the amount of battery storage needed in order to give an indication to the industry of how much battery storage is anticipated. Action 9 requires the creation of a market framework to incentivise energy storage technologies. Wind and solar electricity have the renewable energy support scheme. Energy storage needs similar financial certainty to incentivise development.  Two years after the publication of that framework, these two actions have not been achieved. As a result, millions of euro worth of renewable energy, renewable electricity, is being squandered. The problem here is not judicial reviews, gold-plated environmental regulations or the climate action Act. The problem is the failure of the Government to prioritise the detailed policy work that is needed to ensure that this technology can work for Irish consumers and for the Irish economy. Will the Taoiseach commit to his Government setting a clear target for long-term energy storage needs in Ireland by the end of this year? Will he also commit to putting in place a renewable energy support scheme for battery storage by the middle of 2027 so that this waste of renewable electricity will come to an end? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  What the Deputy said at the beginning is true. We are making very significant progress on renewable energy in this country. We have reached a record of circa 8 GW of renewable energy generation capacity, which is up from 4.8 GW in 2020. Onshore wind now provides very significant levels of power. Last year, we hit the important milestone of 5 GW of installed onshore wind capacity. We also reached the milestone of 2GW of installed solar capacity last November.  In terms of solar generated electricity, in April we reached a peak of 1 GW on the grid. That is enough power for around 500,000 people. Solar generation went from zero to replace coal as the third highest source of indigenous generation in less than a decade. This is the progress we are making. There is about 1.91 GW of electricity storage systems with planning permission and connection contracts pending fulfilment with EirGrid as of last December. As the Deputy knows, we are pursuing offshore wind capacity. Particularly in terms of the auctions that were concluded over the past two years, if we can get those developed, then we will be in a very significant position in terms of renewables powering the majority of electricity.  On the storage issue more generally, we will commit to setting a target. In terms of an incentive scheme or grants, as the Deputy has outlined, I will revert to the Minister in respect of that. Again, that is something that will be assessed. More broadly, the technology is improving all the time. There is a significant degree of private sector investment in the storage area, also. I have witnessed some of this at some of the openings we have been at. For example, in the midlands in particular, we will see further developments in that regard. However, we have made a lot of progress. We can make more progress. When the Deputy said it is wasted and so on, it is an issue of technology and technology catching up in terms of that storage area. That has been an evolving story for the past number of years. It is not quite there yet but it is making huge progress. We will do everything that we can to support it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  With respect, while the Taoiseach is right that it is an issue of technology, the solution is there. The solution is there in terms of battery storage and we do not have enough of it. What representatives of the industry told all Members of the Oireachtas from the Opposition to the Government when they were in with us is that the two key barriers to them are the lack of a national target for how much the Government thinks in terms of energy support that is needed and that support system to help them to deliver it. The Taoiseach is right that planning permission has been granted for plenty of battery storage units around the country but they will not get the financing if they do not see that there is a clear route to market access. The companies that are looking to set up here are mobile. They can support it in Germany or other European countries - the countries that actually have put in the work to put in those support frameworks to make it financially viable. What is needed is here is focus on getting through the policy blockages that exist and that can actually ensure that this technology that is available can deliver lower price energy for Irish consumers. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Minister is pursuing these issues across the board. We certainly we engage in respect of a support system. When any industry comes looking for a support system, it is reasonable that the Government approaches that in terms of value for money, representing the taxpayer and to make sure that we do it properly and right. I will engage with Minister in respect of the issues the Deputy has raised now and revert to him. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"orderofBusiness","bill":null,"showAs":"An tOrd Gn\u00f3 - Order of Business","counts":{"speechCount":60,"speakerCount":23},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler)  I move:  I move:  Tuesday's business shall be:  - Motion re Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Data Protection Act 2018 (Section 51(3)) and (Section 60(6)) (Commission of Investigation into the Handling of Historical Child Sexual Abuse in Day and Boarding Schools) Regulations 2026 (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately)  - Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026 (Second Stage) (to conclude after the first round, not to exceed 3 hours and 34 minutes)  - Motion re Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998  - Motion re Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009  Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Dental and Orthodontic Services, selected by Sinn F\u00e9in.  Wednesday's business shall be:  - Statements on Pride (not to exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes)  - Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026 (Second Stage) (to conclude after the first round, not to exceed 3 hours and 34 minutes)  - Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) (Amendment) Bill 2026 (Report and Final Stages) (to commence no earlier than 8 p.m. and to conclude within 30 minutes)  - National Treasury Management Agency (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026 (Report and Final Stages) (to conclude within 1 hour)  Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re State Responsibility for Risk in Defective Concrete Homes, selected by Independent and Parties Technical Group.  Thursday's business shall be:  - Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026 (Second Stage) (to conclude after the first round, not to exceed 3 hours and 34 minutes and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Tuesday, 30th June, 2026)  Thursday evening business shall be the Second Stage of the Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Against Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill 2025, sponsored by Deputy Ivana Bacik.  Proposed Arrangements for this week\u2019s business:  In relation to Tuesday\u2019s business, it is proposed that:  1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders:  (a) the time allotted for Government Business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business, and the D\u00e1il may sit later than 10.48 p.m.;  (b) Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 47(1) shall not be taken, and Government business shall commence at the time when Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach would normally be taken; and  (c) private members' business may be taken later than 6.12 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of proceedings on Motion re Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 and Motion re Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009, with consequential effect on the commencement time for the items following in the ordinary routine of business;  2. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Data Protection Act 2018 (Section 51(3)) and (Section 60(6)) (Commission of Investigation into the Handling of Historical Child Sexual Abuse in Day and Boarding Schools) Regulations 2026 shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately;  3. the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at the end of the first speaking round and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:  (a) the first-round speeches shall be in accordance with the table below (to be read across);  (b) on the conclusion of the first speaking round or where speeches conclude before the 3 hours and 24 minutes have elapsed and no other member is offering, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion; and  (c) members may share time; and          Gov      SF      SD      Gov      SF       Mins    20    20    20    12    4           Lab      Gov      SF      IPTG      Gov       Mins    20    12    4    20    12           SF      ITG      Gov      SF      OM       Mins    4    20    12    4    20                           Total: 3 hours 24 mins      4. the proceedings on the Motion re Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act and Motion re Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:  (a) the two motions shall be debated together, with separate questions put on proceedings thereon;  (b) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:-  \u2014 opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State \u2013 15 minutes;  \u2014 speeches by representatives of Sinn F\u00e9in - 12 minutes  \u2014 speeches by representatives of the Social Democrats, the Labour Party, Independent and Parties Technical Group, and Independent Technical Group \u2013 9 minutes per party or group;  \u2014 speeches by non-party\/group members \u2013 9 minutes in total; and  (c) speech in response by the Minister \u2013 8 minutes; and  (d) members may share time.  In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:  1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders:  (a) the time allotted for Government Business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business and the D\u00e1il may sit later than 9.30 p.m.;  (b) the SOS pursuant to Standing Order 25(1) shall be taken immediately following Taoiseach\u2019s Oral Parliamentary Questions pursuant to Standing Order 47(1), which shall be taken at the time when the SOS would normally be taken; and  (c) in the event proceedings on the Second Stage of the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026 conclude before 8 p.m., the sitting shall stand suspended until 8 p.m. when the order of business shall resume with the Public Health (Tobacco and Nicotine Inhaling Products) Bill 2026;  2. the Statements on Pride shall not exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply:  (a) the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the sequence contained in the table immediately below (to be read across);  (b) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and  (c) members may share time;          Gov      SF      SD      Gov      SF       Mins    25    15    10    10    3           Lab      Gov      SF      IPTG      Gov       Mins    10    10    3    9    10           SF      ITG      Gov      SF      OM       Mins    3    9    10    3    5                           Total: 2 hours 15 mins      3. the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Regulation of Artificial Intelligence Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at the end of the first speaking round and the following arrangements shall apply:  (a) the first-round speeches, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the table below (to be read across);  (b) on conclusion of the first speaking round, or where speeches conclude before the 3 hours and 24 minutes have elapsed and no other member is offering, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion; and  (c) members may share time;          Gov      SF      SD      Gov      SF       Mins    20    20    20    12    4           Lab      Gov      SF      IPTG      Gov       Mins    20    12    4    20    12           SF      ITG      Gov      SF      OM       Mins    4    20    12    4    20                           Total: 3 hours 24 mins      4. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) (Amendment) Bill 2026 shall commence no earlier than 8 p.m. and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes by one question, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Health; and  5. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the National Treasury Management Agency (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour by one question, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance.  In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:  1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. with consequential effect on the commencement time for Second Stage of the Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Against Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill 2025, and on the time for the adjournment of the D\u00e1il;  2. the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at the end of the first speaking round and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:  (a) the first-round speeches shall be in accordance with the table below (to be read across);  (b) on the conclusion of the first speaking round or where speeches conclude before the 3 hours and 24 minutes have elapsed and no other member is offering, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion; Provided that any division claimed on the Second Stage proceedings shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Tuesday, 30th June 2026; and  (c) members may share time.          Gov      SF      SD      Gov      SF       Mins    20    20    20    12    4           Lab      Gov      SF      IPTG      Gov       Mins    20    12    4    20    12           SF      ITG      Gov      SF      OM       Mins    4    20    12    4    20                           Total: 3 hours 24 mins       "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Are the proposed arrangements for the week's business agreed to? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  Not agreed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I call Deputy Carthy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  There is chaos reigning in our courts as thousands of cases are being adjourned due to the withdrawal of services by legal aid solicitors. The Government and the Minister are responsible for further backlogging the legal system and for creating havoc for many of the people involved in these cases, including victims. There should be a D\u00e1il debate this week on the proposed changes to the criminal legal aid scheme. Most importantly, the Government and the Minister need to immediately engage with stakeholders and then bring forward viable, workable proposals that deliver the value for money and that reduce the court adjournments but also ensures there is access to justice for everyone who needs it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Hear, hear. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I call Deputy Collins. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I wish to address the devastating case of 19 women who were sexually abused by the former school principal in Dunderrow National School and who are now being forced to take legal action against the State to seek redress. Given that Louise O'Keeffe successfully established before the European Court of Human Rights that the State failed in its duty to protect children, how can the Government justify a situation where other victims of the same abuser in the same school continue to be excluded from redress?  We need statements in the D\u00e1il this week in relation to that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  The proposed public inquiry into Children's Health Ireland is in a state of crisis. At the weekend, two of the advocacy groups representing 900 families pulled out of the scoping inquiry. They did this because they have not been provided with information they need to meaningfully engage with the terms of reference. We called on the Minister to provide this information in March; she has not done so. We need statements in the D\u00e1il this week from the Minister on what steps she will take to get this important public inquiry back on track. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  We are debating Committee Stage amendments to the occupied territories Bill this evening. There could also be another committee meeting on Thursday morning to continue discussion on the Bill. However, the deadline for Report Stage amendments is tomorrow, Wednesday. I ask that the deadline for Report Stage amendments be moved to late Thursday or Friday if Committee Stage goes to Thursday, so that everything is in order and we are not rushing this Bill any more than it is already being rushed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett  I also ask for statements on the issue of historical abuse in schools. The Taoiseach said he will listen to the women from Cork who suffered the most terrible abuse. I raised the case of a man some time ago in the Chamber. He is in 70s and was abused terribly. His whole life has been impacted as a consequence. Coincidentally, he was in with me yesterday. He asked where the redress scheme is, if he is going to be included in it and if he will still be alive when it happens. It is just not acceptable that people who are victims of this abuse and whose lives were damaged permanently do not know the answers to those questions. We need an urgent discussion to answer questions for many people who were victims of this kind of abuse in our schools and about the State's responsibility. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mary Butler  In relation to Report Stage amendments, I will have a word with the Minister after this session and we will look at that to see about the timelines. In relation to everything else that was raised, we can discuss it at the Business Committee on Thursday. We had a very solid Business Committee meeting last week. We have a lot of legislation to get through this week so the Order of Business stands. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Are the proposed arrangements for this week's business agreed to? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  They are not. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Before we take questions on policy or legislation, on behalf of the Government Whip, the Minister of State, Mary Butler, I welcome the Dolmen active retirement group from Waterford to the Public Gallery. I hope you all enjoy your day in Leinster House. You are very welcome. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  Families of children with additional needs are once again being let down by the Taoiseach's Government's disastrous mishandling of the summer programme, also known as July provision. Parents are still waiting for home tuition and hours to be sanctioned just days before the schools close. Schools are reporting reduced teacher and SNA allocations despite growing demand, while late decisions have made it really hard for people to recruit staff, putting programmes at risk. For children with autism and additional needs, this programme provides vital continuity and support over the summer months. Instead, families now face uncertainty and needless stress because of the Government's failures. This follows the utter chaos in relation to this year's application process.  The Taoiseach really needs to explain to parents, teachers and SNAs across the State why this has happened and what the Government will do to ensure that the summer programme supports children with additional needs and that it will be delivered on time and with the staffing and resources children and families need.  There is a programme in my own county and if they do not get the SNA it is not going ahead. These kids need this support. The programme is supposed to start on Monday. It is not acceptable. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Deputy paints a picture of a scheme that is growing and growing year on year but he does not articulate that in his presentation. Funding has grown from about \u20ac12 million back in 2016 to about \u20ac62 million this year, with over 70,000 students participating across 2,000 schools. We have gone from 8,000 students participating to 70,000. That is an enormous, exponential increase in students participating in the summer scheme. The funding has increased by \u20ac42 million. I am told here that no eligible child is being precluded from taking part in the summer programme this year, that all sanction letters to schools that applied to run a programme have issued, and that officials in the Department of education are engaging with schools on an individual basis in relation to the running of their summer programme and staffing allocations. Particularly for complex special educational needs, again, there is provision for SNAs and for teachers. In 2025, there were about 11,500 special needs assistants participating in the programme and similar numbers are expected to participate in this year's programme. For any specifics, I can revert to the Minister.  I would like to welcome the Dolmen group from Butlerstown and Portlaw. They are very welcome. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  In the run-up to the by-election, I knocked on close to 40,000 doors and the same issue came up time and time again, affecting constituents in every corner of the constituency: the cost of living. A new report from Barnardos today outlines just how much pressure families are under. It is absolutely shocking. Up to 80% of parents believe their children have been negatively impacted by the cost-of-living crisis. They are parents in every corner of the country, in all our communities, who are struggling and whose children are struggling. Thirty per cent of people said they did not have enough food to feed their children at some point over the last year. It is absolutely shocking. It also shows that more than one third of families went into arrears in their energy bills at some point over the last 12 months. Ireland is one of the richest countries in Europe and we are seeing record levels of homelessness and child poverty, all under the Taoiseach's watch. It is absolutely shameful. This is an emergency and it requires an emergency response. We need a targeted energy credit for low- and middle-income households to give them some relief. Will the Taoiseach commit to that? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Actually, I would disagree with the Deputy's solution. What we did in the budget was child support payments for the lowest income, not the middle but the lowest income, We dramatically increased it and have done for the last two budgets. That is how you tackle poverty. It did reduce in the budget by any yardstick and objective. Over the last number of years, we brought in free primary school books and post-primary school books for children, which is a huge help to families. We have expanded and extended the free hot school meals. There is a universal childcare subsidy. There is a \u20ac280 new baby grant. Hospital inpatient charges were abolished. We have expanded free GP care and free contraception and we have done much more than that. In the forthcoming budget, we are going to focus very much on the child poverty question, as we did in the last budget. It is recognised that increasing child support payments and domiciliary care allowance is a very targeted way of helping those most in need, and that is what we intend to do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ivana Bacik  I commend the makers of the RT\u00c9 Documentary on One, \"Pirate Predator\", for their chilling investigation into the prolific and powerful Dublin sexual predator and paedophile, Eamon Cooke, the owner of the pirate radio station, Radio Dublin. Cooke has been compared with Jimmy Savile, whom he knew and met on many occasions. The true number of children abused by Cooke is now thought to run potentially to hundreds. I pay tribute to the extraordinary bravery of the women who did come forward, two of whose testimony at last secured Cooke's conviction in 2007 after years of failed attempts to bring him to justice. We owe them gratitude but there is a glaring question outstanding about Cooke: how did he get away with this for so long? In recent days I have had the privilege of speaking directly with a number of the women whom Cooke abused. They have asked me to ask the Taoiseach that question. They are seeking answers as to how Cooke continued to perpetrate abuse for decades, and how he was able to use his position as owner of Radio Dublin and his influence to escape justice. It took more than 20 years after a complaint was first made to the Garda about his abuse before he was finally convicted. Survivors believe his malign influence extended into the Garda and the Church, as well as other powerful networks.  I commend Gerry Kelly in particular and other garda\u00ed who did investigate and enabled him to be brought to justice. Does the Taoiseach support survivors' calls for an inquiry to investigate the State's role in why justice took so long? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I have not seen the programme. I appreciate that the work that went into the making of that programme. Again, it is another story of horrific abuse as we discussed earlier in terms of the wide-scale prevalence of child sexual abuse in our society and by institutions as well. We have had a number of inquiries and a number of them are being contemplated again in respect of these issues. To a certain extent, the system is being fairly widely stretched in terms of the number of inquiries. I will ask the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration to examine this in greater detail and I will revert to the Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Seamus Healy  Last week, we had a presentation on stroke awareness and recovery. The session was led by Martin Quinn, a constituent of mine from Bansha in County Tipperary. He is a stroke survivor himself, a national stroke advocate and a lifelong community and voluntary activist at local and national levels. He is a former national president of Muintir na Tire, chair of the Citizens Information Service Network of Companies and an organiser of the Tipperary Peace Convention. At that stroke presentation, he acknowledged the improvement in treatment and rehabilitation in recent years but went on to say that more needs to be done, particularly in the area of additional specialist stroke units, rehabilitation services and support services. He is also the co-ordinator of the South Tipperary Stroke Communication Group, which supports stroke survivors and families and organises national conferences. There is a pressing need for support groups like this throughout the country and for financial support for these groups and I am asking the Government to include in the 2027 budget funding for groups like the South Tipperary Stroke Communication Group and other such stroke groups. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)  I am so glad the Deputy referenced the improvement in stroke care rising from the stroke strategy. We need to continue to drive on with that. It is also important to note the number of step-down beds that are necessary to help stroke patients step out of acute hospitals. I was recently in Blarney with Deputy Colm Burke and others where there is a step-down facility for neurorehabilitation and stroke in particular out of Mercy Hospital. There needs to be more of those community supports for people with stroke to enable their longer-term rehabilitation. The Deputy is correct. The stroke strategy has had very good impacts and I am grateful to the clinicians for that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I want to raise the deeply distressing case of the 19 women abused by a former school principal at Dunderrow National School in west Cork. These women suffered unimaginable abuse as children. One survivor described how you were not safe anywhere in that school - not in the classroom, not in the bathroom, not even the school grounds - yet decades later, many of these women remain excluded from redress despite the fact that Louise O'Keeffe successfully proved before the European Court of Human Rights that the Irish State failed in its duty to protect children from abuse. Today, these women are being forced to consider legal action simply to obtain recognition and justice. This cannot be right. They are now being told to wait for further reviews and an interdepartmental process when many of these women with whom I have spoken to have already spent decades seeking acknowledgement and justice. Does the Taoiseach accept that forcing survivors into lengthy legal proceedings risks further traumatising them? Will he commit to engaging directly with the women involved to seek resolution without the need for court action and if he engages, how soon these innocent women can be included in redress? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  As I said earlier to a series of questions on this issue, we will be responding in a positive way to correspondence from representatives of the survivors of Dunderrow National School in regard to mediation. The abuse was horrific - of that there can be no question - and the trauma experienced was equally life-enduring but there were earlier ex gratia payment schemes so mediation will be entered into in respect of the correspondence we received. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail  The Government prioritised critical infrastructure in the last budget and we are seeing the benefits of that in Kildare with water infrastructure. However, the management of the projects by Uisce \u00c9ireann is extremely poor from traffic to water outages. There have been particular issues in Celbridge, Maynooth, Leixlip and north east Kildare. The difficulty I and communities face involves holding Uisce \u00c9ireann accountable around timelines and particularly around traffic and water outages. What can we do in relation to Uisce \u00c9ireann because its responses take weeks and if we are fortunate, days.  There needs to be more accountability from Irish Water, particularly on these specific projects. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. There is a unit now within Uisce \u00c9ireann that is meant to be responding to public representatives in respect of issues. I do not have the specifics but I clearly can detect from the nature of the Deputy's contribution that he is irate at what has transpired in respect of a project in his area. I will talk to the Minister about it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Colm Burke  Will the Taoiseach outline when funding will be provided for the construction of the new paediatric unit at Cork University Hospital, CUH, given that planning permission was granted in 2022 and also taking into account that eight senior medical consultants have signed a letter expressing concern in respect of the current situation in the paediatric unit and stating there is a risk to patients? Can clarification be given as regards the emergency work that is required to be put in place immediately to deal with their concerns? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  My understanding is that under the current programme, the development is on track to go to tender for the main building works this year and to appoint a main contractor in quarter 1 of 2027, subject to the necessary approvals. As the Deputy knows, there was a phase 1 back in 2017. Phase 2 is the paediatric inpatient accommodation, which will deliver 82 much-needed inpatient beds, both new and replacement. It has taken time but, in parallel with all this, a substantial package of enabling works has been under way since 2024 to support both the paediatric unit and the wider redevelopment of the CUH campus. The paediatric unit forms part of the first phase of major CUH campus developments, which are significant in scale, cost and complexity. We will keep a weather eye on the project. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  Today's announcement regarding the empty GPO and the row-back from the wholesale commercialisation of the site is welcome. Maybe now the Taoiseach can row back on his endorsement of the Hammerson plan to destroy the nearby battlefield site on Moore Street, not just because that plan would lay waste to one of Dublin's most important historical heritage sites but also because of Hammerson's continued partnership with Allianz, which has been cited in a UN report as an enabler of Israel's genocide in Palestine with its \u20ac1 billion purchase of Israeli war bonds and more. Will the Taoiseach end his association with and support for Hammerson and Allianz and their plans for Moore Street? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  First, there was no reversal in respect of the GPO. You guys in Sinn F\u00e9in created a false controversy and made false assertions that we were turning the GPO into a retail outlet. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  They were your words. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Then your party ran a great campaign. It is the normal kind of behaviour you go on with. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  Your words. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Allow the Taoiseach to answer, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  It is terribly cynical politics of the worst kind but it is a great old technique to create an issue and send a hare up the field when actually there is no issue in the first place. Of course the GPO will be an iconic building by the time we are finished with it but, as the Deputy knows, there is a huge complex behind it. We are looking at the major iconic cultural aspect. There will be a post office there and there will be other elements there as well to create footfall. We hope to have either a State agency or a public service there also. It will take a lot of work.  Likewise, there is some very good work being done on Moore Street by the State but that has been attacked as well by your good selves. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  There is no work happening on Moore Street. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  It seems to me you want to keep the campaign going on forever. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  You are telling lies again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Deputy McDonald told the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, she was against it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  When is it opening? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh, please. I have called Deputy Cummins. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh  The Taoiseach should not mislead the D\u00e1il. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jen Cummins  In my constituency, there are a number of children at risk of deportation. They are too young to have known anywhere else and they are going to be ripped from the communities in which they have friends, classmates and all the people who care for and love them. This time last year, a number of children from my constituency were deported before the end of the school year, which was very traumatic for everybody. This year, I do not know whether the deportations will happen during the school year. I asked last year that they not happen during the school year. What work has been done since last year by Tusla and the Department of justice to make sure children who are being deported are treated with the utmost respect and dignity and that both their human rights and their rights as children are protected? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Everything will be done to uphold the rights of children and human rights. There also has to be a fair and firm migration system. The key to it is to have timely processing of applications so that children or families are not here an inordinate length of time, during which they put down roots and so on, before then, as a result of the application process, being found not to have proper status. Huge progress has been made in accelerating the timelines for the first phase of applications. Work is also under way on the next phase in terms of the appeals process. I think ensuring children are not deported during school time is a reasonable position. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Johnny Mythen  The recent severe storms have dramatically accelerated erosion around our coastline. The coastal erosion at Rosslare Strand has reached a critical level that is endangering the entire community in the area, no more so than at the well-known and well-established tourist destination of Kelly's Resort Hotel, which is a family business that was built up over decades. This is a thriving community that services the entire country. It is a natural beauty spot with easy access to beautiful white beaches. The Coast Protection Act 1963 includes a specific reference to a requirement that Rosslare Strand be maintained \"in proper repair and effective condition\". Under the Act, once coastal erosion is identified, as is the case right now, the State has a duty to act to protect the coastline. Will the Taoiseach ask the relevant Departments to consider prioritising the delivery of the coastal protection scheme for Rosslare Strand? Cosmetic repairs will not save this coastal community and its most valuable national tourist attraction. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  The Deputy has raised the specific case of Rosslare. More generally, we will have to put more resources to one side for the costs of adaptation to climate change. That change is here now. I understand the temperature in London, for example, will be 40 \u00b0C by the end of the week. That is an extraordinarily high temperature across the water. There has been too much complacency about climate change being something in the distant future. The impacts of climate change are here and now. We need stronger budget lines for the costs of those impacts. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  T\u00e1 go leor cainte faoi ch\u00farsa\u00ed infreastrucht\u00fair faoi l\u00e1thair. D\u2019ardaigh m\u00e9 cheana leis an Taoiseach na fadhbanna sa bhuninfreastrucht\u00far i gConamara. Cialla\u00edonn s\u00e9 sin an cine\u00e1l infreastrucht\u00far simpl\u00ed at\u00e1 ag teast\u00e1il ionas go mbeadh daoine in ann a bheith ina gc\u00f3na\u00ed in \u00e1it agus go mbeadh siad in ann obair ann freisin. Ceann de na ruda\u00ed bun\u00fasacha sin n\u00e1 c\u00farsa\u00ed leathanbhanda. T\u00e1 \u00e1iteanna ar fud fad Conamara nach bhfuil leathanbhanda iontu, ach t\u00e1 ceantair freisin at\u00e1 s\u00e1ch gar don chathair \u00e1it nach bhfuil leathanbhanda ach in \u00e1iteanna \u00e1irithe sna bailte sin. C\u00e9n uair a cheapann an Taoiseach go mbeidh an buninfreastrucht\u00far sin ann do mhuintir Chonamara, go h\u00e1irithe nuair at\u00e1imid ag caint ar ch\u00farsa\u00ed leathanbhanda d\u00f3ibh si\u00fad a bhfuil gn\u00f3lachta\u00ed acu, mar shampla? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  Aonta\u00edm leis an Teachta gur cheart go mbeadh muid in ann an buninfreastrucht\u00far sin a chur i bhfeidhm. T\u00e1 deacracht ann go h\u00e1irithe in \u00e1iteanna iarg\u00falta. Bh\u00ed s\u00e9 soil\u00e9ir le linn Stoirm \u00c9owyn, mar shampla, nach raibh an c\u00f3ras chomh l\u00e1idir is a cheap gach \u00e9inne go raibh s\u00e9. Cailleadh an c\u00f3ras go han-tapa ar fad. Beidh m\u00e9 ag caint leis an Aire, an Teachta Calleary, le f\u00e9achaint an f\u00e9idir linn n\u00edos m\u00f3 a dh\u00e9anamh \u00f3 thaobh \u00e1iteanna iarg\u00falta agus b\u2019fh\u00e9idir n\u00edos m\u00f3 taca\u00edochta a thabhairt don pobal n\u00f3 do na comhlachta\u00ed chun plean a chur i bhfeidhm ionas go mbeidh broadband ann don phobal. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Edward Timmins  The 132 bus service is the only bus to Dublin for most of west Wicklow. A year ago, I was told by the National Transport Authority, NTA, that the frequency of the service would be doubling. Nothing has happened since then. How do different Departments and Government bodies talk to one other? The NTA made that announcement without even having a timetable from Bus \u00c9ireann. How will communication be improved between Departments and different bodies? Second, the much-needed 199 bus service promised for last September from Glendalough to Bray was all ready to go before being canned at the last minute. How can we ensure Departments and State bodies talk and work better together? There seems to be a complete breakdown in communication. They are telling us different stories. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  There will be songs written about the 132 bus yet. It has been raised here on numerous occasions and I will talk to the Minister in respect of it.  There could be a few PhD theses written about Government agencies and Government Departments talking to each other. There is a human tendency to try to live in silos. We work extremely hard to break all of that down. The integrated approach of people working together is key. I will follow up with the Minister for Transport in respect of bus transport. There has been a significant expansion of bus services over the last number of years. There was some degree of consolidation this year, to be frank, and in terms of other expenditure items. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy John Clendennen  Earlier this year I received confirmation that an additional 12 therapists would be appointed to the midlands integrated healthcare area. This would benefit my own constituency with occupational therapy, physiotherapy and children's disability services. I fully understand the challenges around recruitment right now but this week another barrier was brought to my attention via a response to a parliamentary question. This is the whole area of Garda vetting, with the HSE referring to significant delays in the process in relation to recruitment. I have no issue with strict Garda vetting. It is necessary but when it becomes an additional barrier to recruitment we have to address it. There are too many families waiting on these services, on the likes of physiotherapy and disability services. Any delays that we can rule out, we should be addressing them. I ask the Government to engage with the Garda National Vetting Bureau and the HSE to ensure that we reduce these barriers as soon as possible. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  That is a reasonable point. I will talk to the Minister for justice on this to see if there are ways we can streamline vetting, particularly when someone has already been through a vetting procedure and process. If they apply for another job in parallel or some time afterwards, in a different area, apparently they have to go through the process again. Recruitment has been a considerable issue for us in the health service, particularly in the area of therapy. Anything we can do to speed that up is something we should do. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  The July provision summer programme exists for the most vulnerable children in this country. This year the government has made a complete shambles of it. First, the Government opened and closed the application window before many schools and families even knew it was open. Second, the Government significantly cut some of the teachers and SNAs allocated to schools. Third, effectively the late allocations arriving at the eleventh hour means that many schools do not know whether or not they can open on Monday morning. For example, Claremorris National School last year ran the programme with 15 staff members. This year, this allocation has been cut to just five. The fact that this allocation only arrived last week, days before the summer programme is due to commence, has left this programme under significant jeopardy. This is not just an isolated issue. It is happening right across the country. Children with disabilities are the most vulnerable. This July provision, in terms of the reduced allocation to schools, and the fact that the late allocations have arrived, means that many principals do not know whether or not they can open the door on Monday morning. Will the Taoiseach instruct the Department to review? Will he give schools the authority and the confidence to open on Monday morning with an appropriate staffing ratio? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am mindful of language but in ten years we have gone from about 8,700 students availing of the summer scheme to 70,000 students availing of it. How does the Deputy call that a shambles? That is nonsense. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  The application window opened and closed. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  That is across 2,000 schools and funding has increased by \u20ac42 million. The scheme has grown out of all proportion. In fact, it was a scheme that originally was meant to target children with additional needs or children in certain circumstances of disadvantage. Any review would need to keep a focus. It has grown exponentially. There has been a lot of interaction between the Department and the schools. We have a lot of SNAs appointed. About 11,500 SNAs participated last year, with a similar number expected this year. That is now a very significant resource, so let us have some balance and perspective. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  What about the late applications? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy William Aird  I want to raise the issue of Leprino Foods Company in Portlaoise. This was a joint venture between Glanbia and the Leprino family which is known worldwide for its mozzarella cheese. The company came to Portlaoise in a joint venture to manufacture stringy mozzarella cheese. The Leprino family bought Glanbia out of the project, so we now have a situation where Leprino Foods is exiting this country and moving to the North of Ireland and Wales. This factory is three minutes from junction 17. It is in our enterprise park, which I am delighted to say is completely full now. This factory cost \u20ac130 million to build. Roughly \u20ac7 million of taxpayers' money went into it and it is now for sale, as I speak here today, for \u20ac12 million. I ask the Taoiseach to use his good offices at this critical time and sit down with relevant Ministers to ensure that we get somebody in there because it is such a new factory. It is there available with all new equipment and is open, from my point of view, to many industries in the food sector. We have to compliment the likes of Tirl\u00e1n and Kerry Group that have invested huge money in this. I am asking the Taoiseach to please take a personal interest in it for the people of Portlaoise and County Laois. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" The Taoiseach  I am conscious of the fact that Laois needs investment in the industrial context. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, to engage with Enterprise Ireland and the IDA to see what their views on this are. It may sell private sector to private sector and another enterprise could come in there. From what the Deputy is saying it seems to be a modern factory, so it is a facility that potentially another company could utilise. I would have concerns that Leprino Foods is moving to Northern Ireland or to Wales. We need to understand the reasons behind that because that would be a concern. Maybe those areas are offering more supports but we need to have a full understanding as to why the move happened. I will talk the Minister to see if something can be done with the agencies in respect of that facility. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"An tOrd Gn\u00f3 - Order of Business"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/73","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/73\/dail\/1","houseCode":"dail","stage":"1","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Anti-Shrinkflation Bill 2026: First Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Anti-Shrinkflation Bill 2026: First Stage","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  I move:  That leave be granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to provide price transparency for consumers by preventing hidden price increases by way of quantity reduction, allowing consumers to make informed purchasing decisions.  When people go to the supermarket they deserve to know what they are paying for. They deserve to know if the product they bought last week has become smaller this week and if the quantity has been reduced while the price has stayed the same, or worse, gone up. Everyone deserves to be able to make informed choices about how they spend their money but, right now, too many people feel like they are being caught out. The weekly shop costs more than ever, and people know they are getting less for their money, but it is not often very clear why. That is because of a practice known as shrinkflation. This happens when a product is reduced in size or quantity while the price stays the same. It is a tactic used by manufacturers and retailers to maintain profit while giving the impression that nothing has changed. It is a hidden price increase and it can be very difficult to spot. We have all seen examples of chocolate bars getting smaller, cereal boxes with fewer grammes inside and fewer items in a multipack.  Consumer reports show everyday household essentials are shrinking while prices continue to rise. It is happening across every major supermarket chain in the country. The changes might seem minor - fewer biscuits in a pack or sheets on a toilet roll - but there is a reason these price increases are hidden. Increasing the label price by 20% would be noticed and would make people think twice about buying a product and go for something else. Shrinking the contents means people notice the change a little later, after they have made the purchase, opened the packet and finished the product and realise it did not last as long as it used to. People realise that they will now have to buy more earlier than they thought they would. It is part of the reason people often feel like their money just is not stretching as far as it used to even when, on paper, their shopping lists and shopping bills have stayed the same. We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis that is putting enormous pressure on households across the country. Pensioners are making difficult choices every week. Families are stretching every single euro. Workers are watching their wages disappear into rent, childcare, energy bills and, more and more, into food costs.  When every euro counts, transparency matters. That is what this Bill seeks to address.  This legislation would require large retailers to provide clear labelling on a product or a notice nearby to inform consumers when shrinkflation has occurred. Consumers would be clearly informed that the product costs more than it used to and contains less. It does not ban reducing quantity, impose price controls or tell businesses what they can charge. What it does is say consumers have a right to know if a product has become smaller and more expensive. This is a very simple proposal. The exact same regulations have been introduced in France and Austria. Both countries recognised something important, namely, that transparency builds trust and allows people to make informed choices.  The cost-of-living crisis is out of control and people often feel that the system is stacked against ordinary consumers. This Bill is just one small, practical step we can take to address that. Consumers should not need a magnifying glass, a spreadsheet or a photographic memory to work out whether they are getting value for their money. The information should be available to them clearly and openly at the point of purchase. Transparency should be the norm, not the exception. That is very simply what this legislation seeks to achieve. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Is the Bill opposed? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler)  No. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Since this is a Private Members' Bill, Second Stage must, under Standing Orders, be taken in Private Members' time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Holly Cairns","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Holly-Cairns.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Holly Cairns  I move: \"That the Bill be taken in Private Members' time.\" "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Anti-Shrinkflation Bill 2026: First Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Data Protection Act 2018 under (Section 60(6)) and (Section 51(3)) Regulations 2026: Motion","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Hildegarde Naughton","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","memberCode":"Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Hildegarde Naughton","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","memberCode":"Hildegarde-Naughton.S.2013-07-19","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Education and Youth (Deputy Hildegarde Naughton)  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann approves the following Regulations in draft:  Data Protection Act 2018 (Section 60(6)) and (Section 51(3)) (Commission of Investigation into the Handling of Historical Child Sexual Abuse in Day and Boarding Schools) Regulations 2026;  a copy of which was laid in draft before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on the 16th June, 2026. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Data Protection Act 2018 under (Section 60(6)) and (Section 51(3)) Regulations 2026: Motion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/70","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/70\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Second Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Second Stage","counts":{"speechCount":74,"speakerCount":29},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gillian Toole","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Transport (Deputy Darragh O'Brien)  I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\"  I am pleased to introduce the Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026 for the consideration of the House. The main purpose of this Bill is to address the passenger cap planning condition at Dublin Airport. The importance of addressing the passenger cap and its effects on Dublin Airport is recognised clearly in the programme for Government, which includes a clear commitment to work with stakeholders to achieve the objective of lifting the passenger cap at Dublin Airport as soon as possible.  I have met with a wide variety of stakeholders over the past 18 months, including local residents, airlines, business groups and industry regulators in relation to the passenger cap planning condition. The general scheme of the Bill has also been scrutinised by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport, which received a considerable number of submissions from a wide range of stakeholders. The committee held several hearings to ensure that the views of all interested parties were heard, and I have taken on board the recommendations of the committee insofar as possible in finalising the text of the Bill.  In drafting this legislative intervention, I have taken the views of all of these stakeholders into account. I have also obtained extensive legal advice throughout the drafting of the legislation, and I am satisfied that what I am presenting will allow for the continued sustainable development of Dublin Airport, while balancing the rights of local residents with the objectives of Ireland's national aviation policy and the needs of business and tourism.  I think we can all agree that, as an island nation, Dublin Airport is of strategic importance to this country. Over 36 million passengers travelled through Dublin Airport in 2025. As such, there are a number of recognised risks around the passenger cap planning condition remaining in place. First, if enforced, it would result in an immediate cut of over 4 million passengers per annum, impacting on existing connectivity and employment at the airport and in the wider aviation sector. Second, it would stifle continued growth, undermine our ambitious hub strategy for the airport and negatively impact on our economy in terms of business, trade and tourism. It will also very negatively impact on the jobs the airport underpins. There are about 130,000 direct and indirect jobs in Dublin Airport. Airlines need certainty to plan future schedules and the continued existence of the cap creates only uncertainty, which can be expected to continue to affect the choices that airlines will make about serving the Dublin Airport. Finally, the reputational damage for Ireland could be impacted if capacity is restricted at our main international gateway.  The 32 million passenger cap is a planning condition that was imposed by An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, then known as An Bord Plean\u00e1la, when granting permission for terminal 2 in 2007 and extension works at terminal 1 in 2008. The condition was put in place primarily to address surface access constraints at the time. However, there have been significant upgrades of local road access and public transport offerings to and from the airport since then. It is also very significant, as Members will know, that we have a full, clean planning permission for MetroLink, on which construction will start next year.  DAA has statutory responsibility for the management, operation and development of Dublin Airport and it is its responsibility to engage with the relevant planning authorities to ensure that planning permission is in place to facilitate the development of the airport. DAA submitted its infrastructure application to the relevant planning authority, Fingal County Council, in December 2023, seeking to increase the passenger cap to 40 million passengers per annum and seeking permission, importantly, for the development of a suite of infrastructure projects at the airport to facilitate growth.  This planning application is currently under consideration by Fingal County Council. As part of the process in place for development at the airport since the enactment of the Aircraft Noise (Dublin Airport) Regulation Act 2019, a draft noise-related regulatory decision was published by the Aircraft Noise Competent Authority, ANCA, last month and is currently subject to a public consultation for a period of 14 weeks. A final regulatory decision in relation to the noise aspect of this planning application is expected after that period ends. This decision will be incorporated in the planning decision by Fingal County Council, which is expected shortly thereafter. It is, however, likely that any planning decision by Fingal County Council may then be appealed to An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la and may also be subject to judicial review. This further highlights the need to address the passenger cap by way of a legislative solution to ensure clarity for all stakeholders and to ensure that connectivity to and from our country is not undermined.  I will now take colleagues through the main provisions of the Bill that will empower me, as the Minister for Transport, to make an order to amend or revoke the passenger cap planning condition. In Part 1, the first thing I draw attention to is the definition of \"passenger capacity condition\" under section 2 of the Bill. This definition makes it clear that the power to make an order relates solely to a planning condition that limits the number of passengers who use Dublin Airport for the purpose of travelling by air to or from another airport in any period. I know there were concerns raised during pre-legislative scrutiny that the power being provided to amend any planning condition in the general scheme was too broad, and that has been addressed. Under section 6 of this Part, I have a general power of direction to DAA for any purpose related to this Bill. I may use this power to procure information from DAA in relation to an application, ensure the preparation and submission of appropriate reports relating to the environmental assessments or initiate the application process, which is a very important provision. In such directions, I may specify the period and form in which information should be provided. DAA has a legal obligation to comply with such a direction.  Part 2 provides that DAA may make an application for the making of an order under the legislation. That application from DAA will propose the manner in which the passenger cap is to be amended or revoked, reasons for the application and a summary of the environmental impacts. I will consider the application and consult any person I consider appropriate. If I am satisfied there is justification to make an order, I will notify DAA of my intention to do so and direct it to prepare an environmental impact assessment report and a Natura impact statement. I have the power to accept, vary or refuse an application from DAA.  Part 3, covering sections 8 to 23, inclusive, provides for the environmental impact assessment and appropriate assessment that will be undertaken independently of me, as Minister. An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la will carry out the assessments under the habitats directive and the environmental impact assessment directive, which will include consideration of compliance with the water framework directive.  As part of these assessments, the commission will publish the material for the assessments and undertake a public consultation for a period of no longer than 30 days. There is provision, though, for a further 30-day public consultation should the commission seek and receive further information that is substantial in nature. I have included strict timelines within the legislation, and the commission will have 20 weeks to carry out the assessments and come to a reasoned conclusion in relation to the environmental impacts of making an order and a determination as to whether there will be an impact on the surrounding habitats. There is the ability to pause this timeline for a period of four weeks to allow for any requests for further information to be dealt with. The commission is encouraged, insofar as possible, to carry out these assessments jointly and to take all necessary steps to work in an expeditious manner, avoid any undue delays and ensure that appropriate resources are allocated to carry out its functions under the legislation within the timeframe provided. The commission will notify me of its findings arising from the environmental assessments and publish its reasoned conclusion and determination.  Part 4 sets out the parameters around the making of the order by me and that an order will be superseded by a planning decision on the DAA's infrastructure application. Under section 24, I am prohibited from making an order until the environmental assessments have been carried out. I believe that provision addresses some concerns raised during pre-legislative scrutiny about the public being excluded from the process. This is not the case. At least one period of public consultation in relation to the environmental impacts of making an order will take place.  Under section 25, I am empowered to make an order to amend or revoke the passenger cap, where I am of the opinion that the passenger cap is causing harm to the economy of the State, international connectivity and Ireland's reputation in respect of air transport. In making an order, I will consider and take account of the outcomes of the environmental assessments undertaken by the commission, and I have the power to include any conditions in an order that I deem appropriate to mitigate any impact on the environment.  In consultation with the Minister for housing, where appropriate, I can deem the conditions attached to an order as exempted development but only where they are not separately subject to environmental assessments under EU law. I will publish an order on my Department\u2019s website and in Iris Oifigi\u00fail and inform Fingal County Council, which is the relevant planning authority.  While it is critical that we deal with the passenger cap planning condition, it would be meaningless to do so if we did not have the infrastructure to accommodate that future growth. Therefore, in the preparation of this legislation, one of the key objectives was to protect DAA's live planning application. As such, the legislation I bring before the House today was crafted to allow that application to proceed through the planning process, notwithstanding the making of an order. Section 26 sets out the effect of an order as it relates to that planning application given that both deal with the same planning condition, namely, the 32 million passenger cap.  In short, once a final decision is made in relation to DAA's infrastructure application, that decision will supersede any order made under this legislation in this particular application. However, an order will remain in place through any appeal or judicial review, JR, of that planning decision and if that planning application is refused, then the order will also remain in effect. This will ensure consistency and certainty for all stakeholders while DAA's planning application proceeds to a final planning decision. I believe this also addresses a recommendation, which, again, arose from the committee, for a sunset clause to be introduced.  Part 5, which covers sections 27 to 35, inclusive, sets out the judicial review procedures. The validity of an order made under the legislation, or an alleged failure to carry out a function under the legislation, may only be challenged by way of judicial review. An application for leave to apply for a JR must be taken within eight weeks and the applicant must have sufficient interest in the matter.  Part 6 provides for amendments to the Planning and Developments Acts. Under these amendments, Fingal County Council and An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la are prevented from imposing a passenger cap as a condition in future planning decisions related to Dublin Airport. However, this does not apply in the case of the condition being imposed following a noise assessment by the noise regulator, ANCA, under the balanced approach and it does not apply, in this instance specifically, to the DAA's live infrastructure application.  This Part also provides for amendments to the Aircraft Noise (Dublin Airport) Regulation Act 2019. The definition of operating restriction has been amended to align with EU regulations on the establishment of rules and procedures with regard to the introduction of noise-related operating restrictions at European Union airports within the balanced approach. Two transitional provisions that are no longer relevant have been deleted and a provision has been inserted to clarify that the 32 million passenger cap is not an operating restriction within the meaning of the 2019 Act.  Section 39 provides a derogation from section 15(1) of the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015. I want to explain a couple of reasons this is the case. First, the passenger cap was not a targeted climate measure and, second, international aviation emissions are excluded from the climate action plan. As such, this provides clarity as to the application of that Act to the actions that are under this specific legislation.  As I mentioned, we are an island nation and we cannot ignore the strategic importance of Dublin Airport to our economy and the serious harm that would be caused to the economy, our people, our international connectivity and the international reputation of the State by failing to be in a position to facilitate not only future growth, but the current level of passengers and cargo at our main international gateway.  The legislation I am proposing will not only allow us to ensure the sustainable development of the airport, but will also ensure that any environmental impacts will be independently assessed and the views of the public will be heard as part of that process. As such, it is my view that the approach set out in the legislation represents the most balanced and reasonable way forward.  We are dealing here with a legacy issue. The Dublin Airport passenger cap does not serve this State or the people of the region well. I want the airport to grow on a sustainable basis and to operate as a good neighbour. I grew up beside the airport and have lived in the area my whole life. I know that tens of thousands of people derive income and good salaries from Dublin Airport. It is a critical part of infrastructure in this country and critical to our international connectivity. We have tens of thousands of people working there who not only derive an income there, as I said, but are at the leading edge of aviation, not just in Ireland but across Europe and the globe.  This legislation is critical to ensuring we can grow Dublin Airport in a sustainable manner. It ensures and enshrines public consultation within it but sets strict timelines in that regard. We have also ensured that the existing planning application that is with Fingal County Council is fully protected. There is a process within this as well, in that the Bill gives the Minister of the day the power to preclude the imposition of further caps but also to seek applications from the Dublin Airport authority in this instance to raise the cap further in that regard.  I am looking forward to the debate and the input from Members from across the House. I thank the members of the joint committee under the chairpersonship of Deputy Michael Murphy for the work they have done in this regard. We have reflected many of the recommendations from the pre-legislative scrutiny and the committee's report in the Bill. This Bill is of strategic importance. It is urgent that it be passed. For this reason, I thank the House for its consideration of Second Stage today. I look forward to moving the legislation to its conclusion next week. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  As an island nation, our connectivity is obviously not optional. Our economy, tourism sector, diaspora connections and ability to attract investment all depend on Ireland's connectivity. It is the lynchpin for hundreds of thousands of jobs. There can, therefore, be no question than an ambitious, forward-looking aviation strategy is essential. As Ireland's primary international gateway and a critical piece of infrastructure, Dublin Airport is fundamental.  Right now, the passenger cap is being constrained by a rule that no longer makes sense. The cap is outdated and out of step with reality. Some 36 million passengers passed through Dublin Airport despite the cap being set at 32 million. A difference of 4 million between the two is not a rounding error; it is proof that something has not been working.  We in Sinn F\u00e9in believe the Dublin Airport passenger cap should be lifted but we are not here just to rubberstamp the legislation. While the cap must be lifted in order that we allow for progress, that does not mean the Government's approach should be given carte blanche . First, the aviation strategy must move beyond the city and county of Dublin.  Rather than being treated as an afterthought, the Government must recognise that regional airports are key to unlocking Ireland's potential and to delivering balanced regional development. Therefore, Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael must move beyond their current narrow focus on Dublin and expand their horizons, supported by whatever Independent TDs are still currently supporting Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael.  From Kerry to Cork, Shannon, Knock, Waterford, Donegal, Belfast, Derry and beyond, Ireland's regional airports are awash with unlocked potential. The Bill must engage with the fact that local communities have felt ignored and overlooked for years. Proper community consultation does not mean preventing progress. When it is done properly, it can enhance it. The Bill presents an opportunity to make the Minister and DAA do a better job. There are amendments that Sinn F\u00e9in will be proposing because the outdated airport cap is holding Ireland back. The original 32 million cap, as the Minister said, was introduced as a planning condition at the time of the planning permission for terminal 2. As he said, it was primarily to address the surface access constraints at the time. It was rooted in very specific concerns about traffic congestion and local impacts but the world has moved on.  Passenger demand has outgrown the cap and the cap itself has become blunt and outdated. The infrastructure around the airport has changed since 2007. It is now creating uncertainty, not only for the airport authority but for airlines, workers, the wider economy and the stakeholders the Minister mentioned in his opening speech. There are ongoing legal challenges and looming regulatory decisions at European level that could force stricter enforcement of the cap if it remained in place and we could potentially see reduced flight slots or curtailed capacity and possible damage to tourism, trade and jobs. Legal and regulatory chaos could result from it. That is not a risk we should take.  Industry stakeholders have been quite clear that the cap was limiting growth and restricting connectivity, particularly on key transatlantic routes, and creating uncertainty that could undermine Ireland's competitiveness. Nowhere is this more true than the tourism sector, which is so important in my county of Kerry. Tourism supports almost 230,000 jobs across the country which is nearly one in ten jobs. These are jobs in every county, in rural communities as well as cities. Many of them are in sectors where workers are already under pressure. The sector is facing real challenges. In 2025, international trips declined and visitor spending fell. That is a warning sign we cannot ignore.  Connectivity is also critical to reversing that trend. Without sufficient capacity at Dublin Airport, we risk losing visitors to other destinations. However, growth and tourism must also be fair and balanced. Sinn F\u00e9in has consistently argued for a tourism strategy that delivers shared prosperity and supports communities right across the island, not just the stakeholders who are involved here. That means linking aviation policy to regional development, sustainability and decent working conditions for those who are employed in the sector. The Government cannot claim to support workers while failing to ensure the benefits reach them by delaying the living wage and leaving low-paid workers carrying the burden. It is about more than just lifting the cap. It is about ensuring that lifting the barrier to Dublin Airport's capacity means Ireland's true aviation potential is achieved in a fair and regionally balanced way. It is not just about lifting the cap and the problem is solved as nothing could be further from the truth. Lifting Dublin Airport's cap while continuing to ignore the potential of the regional airports will never produce the answer that Ireland needs and will continue to leave large parts of our island behind. Despite what the Government thinks, not all runways lead to Dublin.  This Bill presents us with an opportunity to address one of the significant failings of the Government; its lack of ambition when it comes to regional aviation. At present, Dublin Airport handles the overwhelming majority of passenger traffic at about 88%. By contrast, Cork Airport accounts for about 6% and others even less. That imbalance is not inevitable. It is the result of policy choices. The over-concentration is not strategy and it is holding back certain parts of the country. Regional airports have enormous potential to drive economic growth, support tourism and create jobs but they are not being given the tools or investment they need. Funding for regional airports remains limited, fragmented and overly focused on maintaining basic operations, rather than enabling growth and expansion.  Spread over years and across multiple airports, the sums allocated are not sufficient to transform connectivity or attract new routes. The result is a system that underperforms and leaves regional economies and airports, such as Kerry Airport, at a disadvantage. We need a fundamentally different approach that recognises the role of regional airports as engines of development and not afterthoughts. We need strategic investment and infrastructure, support for route development and airline partnerships, integration with wider transport networks and a clear, long-term vision for balanced aviation growth. We cannot continue with the model where Dublin expands without a strategy for the rest of the country. Ultimately, there has been an incoherent aviation strategy, no long-term plan for Dublin Airport, no serious roadmap for regional airports and, importantly, no all-island approach to connectivity. That is not good enough for a modern economy.  As part of its focus on regional airports, the Government needs to see beyond the partitionist approach. Ireland is a small island economy and our connectivity challenges do not stop at the border. An all-island approach to aviation offers real opportunities for tourism, trade and regional balance. We saw how fragile our transport links were when disruptions hit key routes and yet the Government refuses to think holistically about how people and goods move on and off this island. There is a clear need for resilience and co-ordination across the island. The Bill should be seen in that broader context; not just as a measure for Dublin Airport but as a wider strategy for connectivity across the island. Lifting the cap also requires the addressing of the very real concerns of communities that live around Dublin Airport. For too long, local voices have not been heard in a meaningful way. Residents have raised serious issues but they continue to be rebuffed and ignored. We will be bringing forward amendments that should give the Government the opportunity to take the concerns of the residents into consideration, which have not been heard in a meaningful way. There are also outstanding issues around flight paths, planning compliance and infrastructure commitments that were originally tied to the passenger cap. Many of these commitments, including road improvements, have not been fully delivered. We are now being asked to support legislation that will override planning conditions that exist without adequately addressing the failures. If we are to lift the cap, we must also strengthen protections for local communities.  The final key issue I will address is the scope of ministerial powers. The legislation gives the Minister significant authority to amend or revoke the passenger cap. While that may be necessary, it must be clearly defined, transparent and limited in scope. I see what the Minister has said about the power to make the order relating solely to a planning condition limiting the number of passengers who use Dublin Airport. That needs to be stated clearly. There is also concern and it must not extend beyond the passenger cap to other planning conditions. There are questions about oversight, accountability and the role of existing regulatory bodies. We need to ensure the powers granted are proportionate, clearly defined and subject to appropriate safeguards. The cap must go. We know it is outdated. We know it is damaging. However, lifting that is not alone a solution. If the Government thinks it can bulldoze this legislation through without fixing other underlying issues, it is mistaken because it is about protecting communities, supporting workers, delivering regional development and building a real aviation strategy for the future of island. Get that right and this Bill can work. If we get it wrong, we will be back here again dealing with the consequences of short-term thinking and missed opportunities. We will engage and we will propose solutions to work with. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  This legislation on the passenger cap must strike the right balance between ensuring our island's connectivity while also acknowledging the experiences and voices of local residents who live close to the airport. The \u20ac32 million annual passenger cap has been in place for many years now. However, in this time, passenger demand has far outgrown this limit and the cap has caused significant regulatory uncertainty for the aviation sector. Sinn F\u00e9in supports the abolition of the cap but we believe this should be done in a measured way which provides the opportunity for local residents to meaningfully engage in the future of the airport, especially in terms of the regulation of noise levels and flight paths. As Deputy Daly outlined, we have significant concerns surrounding the powers this Bill proposes to give to the Minister. We will be submitting a number of amendments across the many sections of this Bill.  While lifting the passenger cap for Dublin Airport is critical to our island's connectivity, the Government must place just as much energy into developing our regional airports.  Airports such as those at Shannon and Knock provide a fantastic service, especially for people who live in the west of Ireland, and are key economic and tourism drivers for our region. These airports have seen passenger growth over the last number of years but the reality is that the lion's share of traffic continues to be processed through Dublin, with well over 80% of the State's air-passenger traffic being processed there. Increasing the use of airports like Shannon and Knock would reduce the level of traffic at Dublin Airport while also supporting greater growth opportunities across the west. Developing and promoting the use of our regional airports is an essential tool to deliver economic growth to every corner of this island and to promote balanced regional development. However, investment from Government must be there to deliver on this. This includes investment in the likes of reliable public transport links, both bus and rail, to airports like Shannon and Knock, which is a recommendation from the all-island rail review, so that people can make the switch to using these airports. In particular, the full reopening of the western rail corridor would provide a significant opportunity to improve connectivity to Knock Airport.  I also raise that it has been over ten years since the national aviation policy was published. From parliamentary questions I have submitted, there is still no sign of when the much-promised updated policy will be delivered. Without an overarching national aviation policy that reflects the developments in aviation, how can we have confidence in the Government's approach to aviation development, especially for our regional airports, which I have outlined?  We have waited quite a while for this legislation but there are still significant gaps and shortfalls that need to be addressed. This legislation must be used as an opportunity to ensure the residents who live near Dublin Airport are engaged with in a meaningful way and to ensure the DAA is not given carte blanche to do what it wants. The work surrounding this legislation must also be used as an opportunity to encourage the use of our regional airports. We need to see an updated national aviation policy delivered as a matter of urgency, and we will be submitting a number of amendments to this legislation. These amendments will be an opportunity for the Minister and Government to ensure this legislation is fit for the transport needs of the whole island. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I welcome the opportunity to make a contribution this afternoon. I thank Deputies Daly and O'Hara for their work on this legislation and for their continued work in this area. I also commend the residents' groups, including the St. Margaret\u2019s The Ward group and other groups that represent the people who are living in the environs of Dublin Airport.  I wish to address two issues the Minister raised in his remarks and I hope he will be able to come back to them in his concluding remarks. I will try to get back in if I can to hear these, but I will look back on the recording in any event. The Minister referenced the programme for Government including \"a clear commitment to work with stakeholders to achieve the objective of lifting the passenger cap\". Will he outline, in terms of the residents, how that commitment will be achieved? He also told us that what he is presenting here today will allow for the continued sustainable development of Dublin Airport while balancing the rights of local residents. Will the Minister outline for me what the rights of local residents are exactly and how that balance will be achieved? The Minister will know, having represented this area for a long time - I have represented them for ten years myself - that sometimes the residents who live in the environs of the airport do not feel like they have been listened to or that their concerns have been taken on board. As the Minister will know, all they want is for the airport to be a good neighbour. They feel that they are good neighbours and they want the airport to be a good neighbour. However, when your neighbour is as big and noisy as Dublin Airport is, it is sometimes very difficult to see and feel that it is being a good neighbour.  The residents want to be treated fairly, which is not unreasonable. Many of the people who live in the environs of the airport do not want to relocate but, if they have to do so, they want to be able to get a settlement from the voluntary dwelling purchase scheme that will enable them to move on with their lives while maintaining as much as possible what they have in terms of their family, etc. There are people who live near the airport who are there for generations. The airport grew up around them. They were there first. The Minister will know these people well. If they are forced to relocate and cannot remain where they are, they want a decent settlement so that they can rebuild their lives elsewhere.  I am also conscious of those people who are employed in the airport. Again, many of them are constituents of mine. I know how important the airport is as an employer and also as a driver of business. More can be done in terms of regional balance.  There is also a real need for an independent review and an assessment of the flight paths. The changes to the flight paths that took place recently were shrouded in mystery. People who never had a plane go over their house before found themselves in flight paths and they found it very hard to get answers or to get to the bottom of it. They will say themselves that they felt like they were gaslit by the Government and the airport.  We will be bringing forward amendments, as has been outlined. Those amendments are intended to be constructive but also to ensure the voices of the residents will be heard. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Ward  As the Minister knows, Ireland is an island and, therefore, its connectivity to the rest of the world is essential. The passenger cap at Dublin Airport is simply not working. In 2025, the cap was exceeded by around 4 million. Not only is it not working, it is not being adhered to. The Government must be mindful that any increase in the passenger cap at Dublin Airport will put pressure on existing services.  As was said already, Dublin Airport is an important employer. I was contacted recently by a pilot from my area about car parking issues for staff at Dublin Airport. His employer is unable to provide staff parking due to limited DAA parking capacity, which means many airport workers are being pushed into paid DAA parking or private airport parking options that require pre-booking. He told me that pilots are regularly rostered for standby duties, which leaves them in a really difficult position. Either they pay in advance for expensive parking that they may not ultimately need or they risk having no parking available if they are called off standby and have only an hour to report for duty. As can be imagined, this is really far from practical. During the summer months, public parking is often fully booked, which adds further uncertainty. It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that lifting the passenger cap will mean more staff. More staff will mean more driving and more driving will mean that we will need more parking. I am calling on the Government to plan for this certain outcome when lifting any passenger cap.  Public transport is not a viable option for that pilot and many other people in Dublin Mid-West. I have raised many times with the Minister that there is no practical way to travel from Dublin Mid-West to the airport using public transport. The Airport Hopper was the most economical way for people in the area to get to the airport. People in Clondalkin, Lucan and Tallaght have been impacted by the decision to close this route. People in these areas have been left without a dedicated bus service to the airport for over a year. As the Minister knows, I asked him and the NTA to step in because when a privately run service stops, the State can take it over through a public service obligation agreement. My pleas have fallen on deaf ears so far. In light of removal of the passenger cap, I ask that any public service obligations are revisited and reconsidered because of the impact that will have on people in Dublin Mid-West.  I have a final point which I have raised numerous times as well. It is a national embarrassment that Dublin Airport does not have a current rail or metro link. MetroLink was spoken about in 2005. Fianna F\u00e1il crashed the economy. It basically crashed MetroLink at the time. Twenty years later, it was announced. Will the Minister fill us in on any update on MetroLink? Will we see it any time this decade? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  We start building next year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  It is my first opportunity to speak with the Minister since becoming the Social Democrats spokesperson on transport and I put on record that I am looking forward to working with him for the duration of this term. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  Me too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aidan Farrelly  The Minister does not need me to inform him just how important Dublin Airport is to this island. Directly, thousands of people work between both terminals every day and indirectly we have seen very impressive figures of the impact of the airport on hundreds of thousands of jobs. In 2025 alone, 36 million passengers went through Dublin Airport, a 5% increase year on year and a 46% increase since 2015. There were 215 days last year with more than 100,000 passengers. That equates to real, essential figures regarding tourism and employment opportunities. The 1.7 million transfers show us that Dublin can be and is a gateway to Europe and the rest of the world.  As the Minister will know, aviation accounts for 2.5% of global carbon emissions and close to 14% of transport emissions.  It is the second-largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in the transport sector. While we can see a rapid pace in decarbonisation in road transport due to alternative fuel sources, as Hannah Ritchie and Pablo Rosado suggest, the outlook for aviation is less clear. Some 1% of biofuel produced globally is used for air travel and less than 1% of aviation fuel is made up of biofuel. Globally, we do not have the infrastructure to supply the aviation fleet, even in the most optimistic of scenarios. As the Minister has said, the impact of aviation on climate and biodiversity should always be central to any discussion about expanding our aviation strategy.  I am very aware that this cap was first introduced largely as the result of local infrastructure deficits and legitimate concerns regarding congestion, noise and impediments to those who live in the area or under the flight paths. It is worth putting on the record of this House that these issues have not gone away. If you couple the significant population increases in many of these areas with the significant increases in the number of passengers since 2007, if anything, the local infrastructure is less capable than ever of dealing with the consequences of the proposed legislation. As a Minister in the constituency, I accept Deputy O'Brien's bona fides in telling us of the support he is receiving on the ground from many who say this cap should be lifted for the sake of employment opportunities. That is also a very important point to make.  If we are going to have a serious conversation about the future capacity of our national airport, it should not be based solely on the capacity of nearby roads to cope with passenger numbers. However, I must ask if there is appetite across government to deliver meaningfully for the communities most affected by this legislation. I remind the Minister that, during preparation of the pre-legislative scrutiny report, we heard that 8,000 homes were affected by the north runway under the current flight paths, compared with the 538 homes that would have been affected under the original permitted route. That is a 15-fold increase. Recommendation 5 of the pre-legislative scrutiny report is \"that meaningful engagement is undertaken by the daa with local communities to mitigate the impact of noise from the north runway.\" These are tangible actions that could be progressed alongside this legislation as it moves through the House.  We all know that Dublin Airport is not the only international airport on this island. Cork Airport has a capacity of 5 million passengers annually. Last year, 3.4 million people travelled through that airport. Shannon Airport welcomed 2.3 million passengers. That airport is also operating well below capacity. Ireland West Airport's passenger numbers exceeded 950,000 last year when it has capacity for 1.5 million. As the Minister is well aware, other airports exist in Kerry and Donegal. I am really not suggesting that they can collectively address the capacity issues that are before the Minister with regard to Dublin Airport but it is important that any aviation strategy include them as part of the conversation. It is this Government's obligation to ensure that legislation is evidence-based. What preparatory or exploratory work has been undertaken to see whether we are maximising the use of all airports on the island, while also addressing the capacity constraints at Dublin Airport?  On the pre-legislative scrutiny undertaken by the Oireachtas committee, I heard the Minister on the radio last week and I join him in commending those committee members who did such a thorough pre-legislative scrutiny report on this Bill. Those recommendations paint a very thorough picture for the Minister and his officials as to how they should proceed in terms of Government amendments. If the Minister did not know before, he now knows about the potential health outcomes associated with this legislation and its impact on people, particularly children. Their voices must always be more important than sectoral interests. What mitigations are in place now that we know more?  I will particularly highlight recommendation 12, which is:  The Government should commission a comprehensive economic assessment of Dublin Airport on the model of the Schiphol assessment conducted by CE Delft, which examined the full climate, health, congestion and community costs of different capacity scenarios.  This would be a very positive and worthwhile exercise. I ask the Minister to include all airports on the island in this exercise.  I will finish with one final recommendation, which is, \"Head 5 should be amended to ensure that the Minister's power to revoke or amend planning conditions is limited solely to the passenger cap condition.\" As the Minister will be very aware from his former role as Minister for housing and local government, we need a wider discussion within Cabinet about the role of local authorities. I understand how we got here on this issue but seeking to bring such comprehensive powers into the office of the Minister of the day potentially undermines the role of local authorities even further.  We will be proposing a number of amendments over the coming days. They will be tabled in a very constructive manner. I look forward to debate on the next stage with regard to the role of local authorities and the very important issues of climate and biodiversity. Again, I am grateful for the opportunity to debate this. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gillian Toole","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Gillian-Toole.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gillian Toole  I had not expected to speak yet but I will take the opportunity. Things have moved very quickly. The benefit of Dublin Airport to Meath East is unquestionable. The opportunities for employment, the increase in the number of residents or constituents in the area and the opportunities for travel are all to our advantage. However, in recent times, the residents of Meath East have, without consultation, been affected by the increased number of flights to and from Dublin Airport.  I will speak in particular about the north runway. My comments will be no surprise to the Minister, his officials or the Taoiseach as I have raised these issues previously. As I have said before, I try to focus on solutions. In that vein, I will read solutions into the D\u00e1il record, some of which were conveyed to the Committee on Transport. I am not a member of that committee. I am grateful to Deputy Michael Murphy for his indulgence in letting me speak there. As we know, there are many affected residents in Meath East. There are people who bought homes in the constituency who never anticipated being overflown. The impact of the noise preferential route on these communities was never measured. Consultation with Meath County Council was never considered. Consultation was not extended to that council. I welcome the consideration within the Bill regarding public consultation in respect of environmental impact assessments being extended to Meath County Council.  I will read something into the record. I hope it will come in under time. Parts of it have previously been read into the record. As I have said before, I am a solutions-focused person. This is a solution to the issues facing the St. Margaret's residents and the Meath East residents. It is provided by the North Runway Technical Group, a voluntary group comprising residents and pilots with technical expertise. There is a way out. It reverses a change rather than making a change. The 28R departure routes flown since 2023 have turned aircraft off the straight-ahead procedures for air navigation services-aircraft operations, PANS-OPS, default without the safety assessment that change required. Returning these routes to the default removes the unassessed change. Most of it can start this month with no loss to the capacity Dublin Airport operates today. Indeed, there is a possible opportunity for increased capacity. We currently have DAA and AirNav flying 28R departures straight ahead on the omnidirectional departure route DAA already publishes, operated using the dependent mode. That is the mode Dublin Airport already operates whenever there is a missed approach on the parallel runway. Given that the straight-ahead path follows the corridor the original assessment reserved for departures, every population count falls under this approach. The number directly overflown drops by nearly 80% and the number in the wider affected swathe falls by more than 40%.  This fix reduces the impact rather than moving it onto anyone else. That has been cited repeatedly. It stops the steep low-altitude turn and only needs procedures and a mode that already exist. It is a permanent and independently designed solution.  In this instance, the Government can commission a qualified procedure designer independent of AirNav and DAA with a proper published brief to design the durable solution, turning the 28L missed approach - the south runaway missed approach - rather than the departure and run it through a full four pillar balanced approach. Everyone wins - the DAA keeps its capacity and growth, the residents come out from under the routes and AirNav and the IAA get a defensible design. We are solving the problem ourselves and then moving forward with the Bill in the intended mode.  However, the affected residents are my primary concern. The Minister knows from the committee that there have been presentations on the health impacts to residents in the area, which is estimated at a cost of \u20ac800 million per annum. Again, this reverses a change rather than making a change.  I wish to raise the overflight of Meath. The current situation that we have is the 30-degree separation from the missed approach path of the parallel runway, 28L. That separation is a requirement of independent, segregated, parallel operations. It does not apply when the two runways operate in dependent mode. Dublin already operates in a dependent mode in this respect. The north runway already holds whenever there is a missed approach on the south runaway. The dependent operation is not something that AirNav would have to create. It is already there. It operates in constrained conditions, such as strong winds. It is the co-ordination process. Operating in dependent mode and releasing the north runway departures straight ahead on the omnidirectional procedure changes nothing except the direction of the turn. I repeat that it does not reduce the capacity that Dublin already operates.  I hate to sound repetitious but the solution is here in reversing a change and the impact on the 30,000 people. Without referring directly to challenges that exist, we are aware that there are legal challenges take place. In the spirit of offering a solution, it is to reinforce this. I apologise for my repetition but there is a solution to this, which then it allows moving forward without opposition.  Reversing the change reduces both the overflown and the affected population. The interim arrangement will deliver that reduction immediately. The North Runway Technical Group has published geographic information system, GIS, analysis. It has been measured on the published departure centre lines against the convention of an overflown swathe within 1.5 km based on the UK's department of transport track keeping norms and an affected swathe within 3 km of the track flown. It gives the total population within each corridor. Regarding the statistics in relation to Fingal and east Meath and the routes flown since February 2023, 13,923 residents have been overflown, and 30,540 residents are in the affected swathe. On the straight-ahead design based on the 2004 to 2005 environmental impact statement, EIS, for the 2007 application, the figures here are stark. This is where the solution focus is. A total of 2,888 residents are overflown and 17,481 residents are in the affected area. This is a reduction in the total impact, not a redistribution of it, which I can understand is a fear. I am somebody who would be living in the affected swathe where the straight-ahead mode be complied with.  In the spirit of being solution focused, I seriously ask for this consideration to be acted on. However, first of all, I wish for it to be analysed. I have requested the safety reports that relate to the current 30-degree departure, and the subsequent 56-degree turn on departure from 28R. I await those. This is something that can be implemented within a very short timeframe. In the spirit of being the good neighbour as per the Dublin Airport Authority's website, a good neighbour in this instance is about reducing the health impacts, recognising the benefits of the airport and recognising our island status but trying to factor in, plan and implement for a win-win situation for our residents. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Healy-Rae  The Minister knows my views on this whole matter. Like Deputy Toole, I would like to think that I am coming at this from a sound and sensible perspective, not like the motion we had here last week where we had people who were against economic activity, building roads and everything we are trying to do from a common-sense point of view. We need roads and houses. A term used in the motion last week was \"unsustainable housing\". I would love to know what an unsustainable house is. I would love to know how any politician could deem what the Government is doing with Dublin Airport is wrong from an economic point of view, from a bringing people into this country point of view and from a strategic point of view. When we look at people like Michael O'Leary, I am very glad to use Michael O'Leary's name in the D\u00e1il in a positive way. Usually, people like him are demeaned and downgraded in here because of their success, usually by a certain group of politicians who absolutely despite and hold a grudge against anybody who seems to create wealth, growth and employment. They seem to have a set against them.  I wish to remind people about County Kerry's airport, Farranfore, which is strategically very important to us. Michael O'Leary has continuously told us that it is money that he makes in places like Dublin Airport that allows him to provide us with the service we have and are very thankful for. While I am at it, I would like to put in a spoke for more flights in and out of County Kerry provided by good people, such as Michael O'Leary and Ryanair. If we could have an earlier service in the morning, and if it is deemed financially viable to do so, we certainly would welcome it with open arms because Farranfore is one of the most unusual places in Ireland. It has an excellent road service and train service. That is a great advantage to us in the heart of County Kerry.  Coming back to the whole idea of what the Government is trying to achieve in Dublin, it is very welcome. We need to remove this cap because, quite simply, we need to allow more business to come into this country. We need connectivity to the airport. There is no point in being retrospective about it but it is surprising that we do not a rail service to and from the airport after all of these years. Again, Rome was not built in a day. I refer to the way the Government is going and the removal of the cap. I have met with residents who outlined their concerns. Of course, there will always be concerns. One of the things that it always reminds of, and I would like the Minister to take this on board, is the person who applies for planning permission to build a house near another person's farmyard. When they are living in their house, they then complain about the farmyard. In other words, what was there first? Many of the estates----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Deputy----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Healy-Rae  Is my time up? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Healy-Rae  Sorry. Regarding many of the estates that are built there, the airport was there before the houses, and they knew where they were going to live. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  I call Deputy Danny Healy-Rae. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  Who is next? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  You. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle very much. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  The Deputy has three minutes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I am glad to get the opportunity to talk on this Bill.  There has been a lot of talk about Dublin Airport and the cap. I know residents are concerned about it but Ireland has to move on. We need to open it up a bit anyway, give some relief there and give the operators like Michael O'Leary, who has been making a lot of sense about it, a chance to keep their flights and their business going. Until Ryanair came along, it was very expensive to travel in and out of this country.  At the same time, I ask that Shannon and the regional airports not be forgotten, starting with Kerry Airport. It is very important to us. The more flights we can get in and out of Kerry, it would be a great help to people in Kerry who need to travel for work and many different things. For both Kerry and Shannon, which is a regional airport with a long and great tradition, more needs to be done to help the mid-west. Many of my uncles and aunts travelled through Shannon coming and going to America. Four of them made their lives over there - my father's brothers and sisters. It was through Shannon they had to go when they were coming and going to America. Likewise, we are very close to Cork Airport but Kerry is the one we support and we ask the best for it all the time.  There is an issue this weekend. Kerry people may be disenfranchised if the Minister does not do something about the trains to ensure - I hope he is listening to me----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  I am. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  -----that Kerry people can travel to this match. We are playing Tyrone on Saturday at 6.15 p.m. It is not a great time for Kerry people who will be trying to get home, maybe leaving Croke Park as late as 9 p.m. I ask that enough trains be put on for that event to make sure the people of Kerry can get up there and get back home again. I have to say to the Minister it is unfortunate Kerry people and elderly people cannot watch this massive game on TV when RT\u00c9 got millions of euro - it got \u20ac725 million - to keep it floating, the very same amount the people of Ireland got----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  Keep it relevant to the Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  -----to help them with the cost of diesel. Do not forget us, Minister----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  I told you to keep it relevant to the Bill, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  ------it is very important the people of Kerry can see the game, come up and get home again. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  I am happy to speak on the Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026 this evening. The cap must be lifted but there are fundamental questions. There are other issues besides Dublin; it cannot all be about Dublin. That is what it has been. There is huge investment in Dublin. We do not begrudge it one bit but we need a more balanced regional approach. While I support the lifting of the cap, for years policy and investment have been overwhelmingly focused on the capital while our regional airports at Cork, Shannon, Knock - Deputy Healy-Rae mentioned Kerry - and now Waterford. We welcome the investment there. There is great potential for people in the south east. They have all remained under-utilised despite being efficient, modern and easy to get to, and easy to grow as well. I compliment the staff there.  Passengers across the south and mid-west are paying the price. They face long journeys to Dublin, traffic gridlock on the M50, which I just came through in the past hour and a half myself, excessive costs for car parking at Dublin Airport, longer queues, bigger crowds and more stressful journeys. That is for sure - they are more stressful. Cork and Shannon airports serve vast regions, including County Tipperary, yet they are not supported in a balanced way. We must have more balanced regional development. It is imperative - we cannot not have it. The community wants to fly locally, and visitors to the south and south west do not want to face a two- to four-hour journey from the airport to wherever they are visiting in Ireland, yet they are given little choice with limited flights in these other airports. We must look at a better timetable for those airports and Waterford when it is completed. I compliment the private investor there and all who worked on it. My former colleague, Matt Shanahan, was a daily lobbyist here for Waterford Airport.  Instead of continuing to overload Dublin, we should invest in and promote regional airports as available alternatives. Everything in this country appears to revolve around Dublin, while the people in Dublin do not want an increase in passenger numbers. You cannot blame them - they have issues and problems. The DAA must answer a simple question: how can it justify seeking ever higher passenger numbers in Dublin while Cork and Shannon remain significantly underused? It is an obvious question. Any of us in business would look at that and see what we could do about it. A fair and balanced aviation strategy is essential for regional development as far the travelling public is concerned. I recall a debate here with former Minister Shane Ross who I met today at his book signing Clonmel. I wish him well. He was here for a debate so it is a while ago now. It is an ongoing issue. The Minister has grasped the nettle; it is no bother to him. He is a good man to take on issues. This has to be sorted out. Long term, we must be understanding of the regions of Ireland, the south east with Waterford and the south and south west with Shannon and Cork. Cork and Shannon airports are a doddle to go through. The staff are very helpful. You are in and out. You are not stuck in queues for hours or in traffic. You have to be there three hours in advance for transatlantic flights; it is way too much and it is frustrating. It is not a pleasant journey. That is for us to think about. If we expect investors to come here, we need seamless travel to get to the regions where we want industry without undue delay and being held up at airports and in traffic. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  As trains have been mentioned, I might take the opportunity to ask the Minister to engage with Irish Rail to make sure the 5.48 p.m. train from Drogheda Pearse to Malahide on Saturday evenings is a full eight-carriage train as the last two Saturdays with the gigs on----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  You might stick to the Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  -----in Malahide Castle have been half trains. They have left people behind in Donabate. I am sure the Minister will be concerned about that.  I welcome the steps being taken to remove the passenger cap at Dublin Airport. We are an island nation. We depend on connectivity. A cap on our capital city's airport, as the Minister said himself, is a cap on our growth. Dublin Airport is not only an employer of approximately 130,000 people; it is also a gateway through which Ireland does business, attracts foreign direct investment and connects to Europe and beyond. As a TD for Dublin Fingal West, or north County Dublin, it is a constituency I know to be the best in the country in which to live and work. It is also the constituency where the airport is located. I must raise a number of issues with the Minister.  The DAA has repeatedly said it is acting as a good neighbour to residents, community groups and sports and outdoor organisations affected by being close to the airport, in particular in relation to noise and traffic, but the Minister and I both know from our direct engagement with constituents that this is simply not the lived reality for many people. I urge the Minister to instruct the DAA to act fairly and genuinely invest in surrounding communities. That means widening the voluntary dwelling purchase scheme, offering fair and appropriate buy-outs to families most impacted and significantly expanding the noise insulation scheme so that homes receive high-quality, modern insulation that actually works. These measures already exist in principle but are too narrow and too limited in their application. They must be strengthened if we are serious about maintaining community trust.  The second issue is flight paths.  Following multiple engagements with the DAA, the IAA, Department officials and local residents, I have to say that I am none the wiser on flight paths. What I do know, however, is that something has changed in the last few years. That is obvious to anybody living in north County Dublin, to people working or playing outdoors, to families who were not previously impacted by noise, despite living beside the airport, but now are, and to anyone sitting on a plane departing Dublin Airport where aircraft frequently bank sharply after take-off. Adherence to safe flight paths that genuinely minimise the number of people impacted is absolutely essential. I am tired of hearing explanations that do not align with the lived experience of residents. I simply do not understand how this issue has not been resolved by now.  The third issue is traffic. A credible and detailed traffic mitigation plan is not optional; it is absolutely essential. Increased airport capacity will place additional pressure on the already strained M50 and M1 corridor. At the same time, as the Minister knows, Fingal is delivering much-needed housing at pace. That will further increase traffic volumes. We also have to factor in the disruption that will arise from the construction of MetroLink and the DAA's infrastructure development plans. The delivery of a western access road from the M2 is critical. We also need a fit-for-purpose and fully integrated transport hub at the airport, with practical measures such as sufficient ticketing infrastructure, including Leap card facilities, until such time as we have contactless payments.  I also raise a concern in relation to how the Bill is drafted. As it stands, it allows the DAA to apply to amend or revoke the passenger cap but it does not require that application to include concrete proposals on traffic mitigation, noise reduction, insulation, buyouts or any meaningful engagement with affected communities. Nor does it require those protections to be in place before the order is made. In effect, it creates a pathway for expansion without ensuring from the outset that robust and forceful protections are in place for those of us living close by the airport. I ask the Minister to look at that again and at what is included in the onus on the DAA in making this application.  Finally, I raise the question of the national aviation policy. When will we see it? If we are serious about balanced regional development, we must ensure that regional airports are also supported to grow and reach their potential. Dublin Airport cannot and should not carry the entire burden of national connectivity. I welcome progress on this important legislation but I urge the Minister to ensure the DAA genuinely acts as a good neighbour to those of us living and working in north County Dublin and to strengthen the legislation to make sure the DAA must demonstrate it is a good neighbour in any application to the Minister. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  This is serious legislation. The complexity involved in it is there for all to see. By virtue of the Minister's opening address and on any examination of the Bill, we can see just how complex this law has been in bringing it to the floor of the House. Understandably, there has been a lot of frustration among the sector owing to the delays in bringing a Bill like this to the House. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  There was no delay. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy James Geoghegan  Now the Bill is before the House. I am not criticising the Minister. I am talking about the past when the Bill was not brought to the Houses, and how long it has taken for a Government, that is, this one rather than the previous one, to legislate to address this issue. I compliment the Minister on bringing the Bill to the House and bringing us to this position.  As a small, open economy, we face intense competition for the foreign direct investment that has been the bedrock of our prosperity. We do not compete for this investment for the sake of it. Investment and growth are required to fund better public services, the construction of housing and a more just society. For too long, Dublin Airport, which is the gateway to this country for investors and tourists, has been constrained by a planning condition that no longer reflects the reality we face in today's world. Passenger demand has already exceeded the cap for consecutive years, but this outdated restriction has been used to undermine our broader economic objective and limit our national potential. In my view, the Bill addresses this problem. At its core, this legislation changes something very simple. It changes who should decide the future of a piece of infrastructure that is of national importance. Dublin Airport is not a local facility; it is the gateway to Ireland for tourists, investors and people bringing jobs to this country. It is a gateway to Europe and the world for our people, students and exporters. Ultimately, the airport is the critical node underpinning the trade, tourism and investment that are the foundations of Ireland's economic success.  Given that reality, it is entirely appropriate that the Minister for Transport have the power to amend or remove a constraint that is choking the airport's and the country's potential. There is nothing progressive about supporting a measure that constrains Dublin Airport's growth. Independent research shows that over 100,000 jobs are linked to the airport and that it contributes \u20ac9.6 billion in gross value added to the Irish economy. These figures show that the benefits of allowing the airport to grow are not abstract. It will create more jobs and investment in Ireland. That is what allows us to build more housing, improve public services and invest in transport, healthcare and education.  I accept fully that this Bill involves difficult choices. It removes some planning powers from the local authority and moves them towards the centre, but that choice is justified in this instance. The airport's growth is an issue of national importance and requires considerations beyond that level.  Environmental concerns have also been raised. It is clear that the Bill takes those concerns seriously. Too often, environmental-type arguments are used as a blocking tactic by those who fundamentally do not want to see Ireland grow, develop or attract investment. Again, that is not a progressive position to take and it is certainly not in the national interest. The Bill does not disregard environmental concerns. It provides for full environmental impact assessments, appropriate assessments under EU law, public consultation and independent scrutiny. These are robust and structured safeguards, so the notion that these changes represent a free-for-all is completely unfounded. The appropriate balance, in my view, has been struck by this Bill.  The important and notable issue of noise, which Deputy Boland, as a local representative, outlined, is clearly a sensitive one in respect of Dublin Airport. Nobody can dismiss the concerns of people living near or adjacent to the airport. Equally, in order to be proportionate, using the small number of concerns people have as a justification for a veto over the growth of critical infrastructure cannot be countenanced. Importantly, in this Bill the assessments indicate that noise impacts are limited and manageable. Aircraft technology is continuously improving and the noise levels will continue to reduce over time. A blanket constraint on growth is neither proportionate nor sustainable.  Overall, this Bill is a welcome and necessary measure. It recognises the central role that Dublin Airport plays in our economy. By providing the Government with the powers necessary to act in the national interest, it will allow Ireland to remain competitive in attracting the investment that funds social progress in this country, and it does this in a way that maintains robust environmental oversight. If we are serious about building a more prosperous Ireland for everyone, we must be serious about building the infrastructure that makes this possible. This Bill does that.  I compliment the Minister on the work he has done in bringing the Bill to the House and all the work underpinning that work. I look forward to its enactment. I also look forward to the benefits that signalling the enactment of this Bill will bring to this country. The more routes that come to this country, the more investment we will see. I welcome the Bill's introduction. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill. Dublin Airport is incredibly important strategic infrastructure for the island of Ireland. Sinn F\u00e9in does not oppose the lifting of the passenger cap in and of itself. We acknowledge the existing cap is no longer fit for purpose and we committed in our 2024 general election manifesto to address that. However, the Bill before us risks rushing headlong into expansion without a proper assessment or plan for the consequences. It fails to meet the basic test of sustainability and, very disappointingly, it seems to ignore many of the substantial recommendations from pre-legislative scrutiny. As a result, Sinn F\u00e9in will table amendments on Committee Stage. I will now outline three of these.  First, the Minister must ensure that the commencement of this Bill is contingent upon a comprehensive and independent assessment of the economic implications of lifting the cap, modelled on CE Delft analysis for Schiphol Airport. The model is there.  The assessment must look beyond balance sheets. It must consider the impacts on health, housing, education, water, transport and the social fabric of our communities. It must also look at the impact of lifting the cap on other airports and regional and local economies on the island, and aviation policy more generally. As the UN special rapporteur on the right to help the environment noted during her visit to Ireland, \"urgency cannot justify bypassing our obligation to undertake comprehensive ... assessments\". The Minister should not ignore that advice.  Second, the Minister should take the opportunity to improve aviation sector governance in the Bill. Sinn F\u00e9in will push for a review of the structure and operation of the Aircraft Noise Competent Authority to be completed within 12 months. If the airport is to grow, we need a regulator that is truly independent and robust enough to perform its duties and protect local residents. Currently, the body being regulated, the DAA, is responsible for collecting and collating data, including complaints data. This is an anomaly that has eroded public trust and it must be changed.  Third, and crucially, we need an independent evaluation of the airport's flight paths. This evaluation must be completed within nine months and present proposals for alternative routes. An essential goal of this evaluation must be to minimise noise impact on existing neighbours and nearby residents. Communities in places like Ratoath, Ashbourne and St. Margaret's and the Ward are being ignored and left in the dark. They are facing unauthorised flight paths, sleepless nights and, in some cases, worse. There is a better way to do things. Local experts have gone a long way towards spelling that out. The Minister must insist on action in this regard. That is what our amendment will seek to achieve.  Everyone can recognise that Dublin Airport is a vital national asset, but it cannot be treated as a law unto itself. Growth must be planned, transparent and mindful of the families who live in the airport's shadow. Sinn F\u00e9in will work constructively with the Government to ensure this happens and hold the Minister to account on these fundamental points. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan)  Ag bogadh ar aghaidh go dt\u00ed P\u00e1irt\u00ed an Lucht Oibre, glaoim ar an Teachta Ahern. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ciar\u00e1n Ahern","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ciar\u00e1n-Ahern.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ciar\u00e1n Ahern  I will share my time with Deputy Smith. This is an aggressively anti-climate Bill. This Government is making it clear to us that climate, environment or biodiversity considerations have absolutely no place when it comes to our aviation policy. It is ironic that we are debating this proposal to add potentially limitless additional carbon into our atmosphere on the same day that we are suffering with record temperatures, with hot weather warnings across Europe. We have heard that 40 people have drowned in France over the past few days due to the heat. Children are dying in cars, Europe is heating at twice the rate of the rest of the world and this is where our Government's priorities lie. This is the third Bill produced this term that seeks to disapply the climate Act. We have seen it with the infrastructure Bill, we are seeing it with this Bill and we will see it later again this week with the liquified natural gas, or LNG, reserve Bill.  Section 39 provides that section 15 of the climate Act will not apply, having regard to the likely consequences for the economy of the State and international connectivity if an order is not made. This effectively amounts to a legislative predetermination that economic interests and connectivity, whatever the hell that means, completely override climate considerations. Even our birds and natural habitats regulations are in the crossfire. The Minister will point to section 15 and assure us all that environmental impact assessments will be carried out and so on, but those provisions are rendered essentially meaningless by section 25, which states that, in effect, the Minister can just ignore or override an environmental condition from An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la following an EIA. Basically, the whole environmental assessment process in the Bill is advisory, at best.  Moreover, in cases where the commission determines there are likely to be adverse affects on habitats from a proposal to increase the cap, the Minister can unilaterally decide there are \"imperative reasons of overriding public interest\" in the proposal going ahead. There is no requirement on the Minister to engage in any sort of consultation in coming to that decision. He might opt to consult the housing Minister, An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, the DAA and other Ministers, but only where the Minister is already of the opinion that the public interest provision already exists. There is no obligation to consult any dedicated climate and environmental bodies, such as the Climate Change Advisory Council, the EPA or, indeed, the climate Minister at any stage in this process. For the record, not once is the climate and environment Minister mentioned in this Bill. References to the housing Minister appear repeatedly. Given that section 39 explicitly disapplies section 15 of the climate Act for both the Minister and An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, the absence of any consultation with the climate Minister is beyond concerning.  It is becoming increasingly clear that there has been a significant amount of corporate capture of this Government, whether it is this Bill, which could have been written by Michael O'Leary himself, the data centre drive or the LNG Bill, which is being brought through to ensure continuity of its ever-increasing gas demands. We will keep hearing an economic argument from the Government on removing the passenger cap, and I will come back to that, but we need to be honest about what this Bill will do. Scrapping the passenger cap at Dublin Airport means more flights, more pollution and higher emissions at a time when Ireland is already dangerously off track on climate action. Any hypothetical economic gains from removing the cap, and those are debatable, could be wiped out by the \u20ac26 billion in fines we might be facing from failing to meet our climate targets.  This Bill does not just raise the current cap of 32 million passengers, which, for the record, Dublin Airport has consistently broken in recent years, to some higher figure. It allows the Minister to scrap the cap altogether. There is no alternative ceiling proposed. The Minister has floated a figure of 60 million passengers a year, almost doubling the current limit. As per anything one might expect on climate from this Government, there is a clause exempting the Minister from having regard to section 15 of the climate Act when making this decision. If this expansion is sustainable, as the Minister says, why is the Government running scared of the climate action Act under environmental legislation?  The Minister and this Government are intent on compounding our already abysmal record on climate and are abandoning any pretence of caring or wanting to at least try to catch up on what we have legally committed to. Against the backdrop of our failure in achieving our climate and emission reductions targets, the Government is now proposing a policy change that independent analysis suggests will see flight emissions increase by 24% if passenger numbers rise to 40 million. That is almost 581,000 tonnes of additional CO2 by 2034, and 40 million passengers is a conservative scenario. As I said, the Minister suggested 60 million passengers, in time. However, it is fine according to the Government because international aviation emissions are not counted towards our national emission figures. Our emissions obviously impact globally, and in a world where only 5% of our global population has ever taken a flight, to suggest that because we do not count international aviation emissions means it is okay to expand exponentially betrays a total disregard for any semblance of global climate justice.  This Government is rapidly losing any credibility internationally and here at home when it comes to the climate crisis. That has consequences. It cannot, on the one hand, tell our workers, farmers, hauliers and households that they must bear the cost of our decarbonisation efforts and, on the other, wave through unlimited aviation growth with a legislative shield against its own climate Act. People will understandably start to question why they should bother when those at the top are not only allowed to continue to pollute on a massive scale, but are actually being facilitated to increase their emissions.  This is a bowing down to corporate interests and greed dressed up in the language of connectivity and competitiveness. This is not just a moral failing; it is a legal one too. Notwithstanding the disapplication of our own climate laws, under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, the State has a positive obligation to protect its citizens from the foreseeable harms of the climate crisis. I do not mean that in an abstract sense. The European Court of Human Rights found exactly this in the recent KlimaSeniorinnen Schweiz case against Switzerland. The Dutch Supreme Court found likewise in the Urgenda Foundation case and the International Court of Justice, in its advisory opinion last year, confirmed that states must use all means at their disposal to prevent harm from greenhouse gas emissions, including, expressly, emissions from fossil fuel consumption, which includes aviation fuel.  A legal analysis of the passenger cap removal commissioned by Opportunity Green and prepared by barrister Tim Johnston of Brick Court Chambers sets out plainly that Ireland, already behind in our own targets and comparable countries and already in breach of climate commitments, is exposed to a credible claim that lifting this cap, while simultaneously excepting the decision from climate scrutiny, constitutes a breach of Article 8 of the ECHR. I am sure a copy of that report has been shared with the Minister. Not only are we risking our climate, but the Government is also actively risking public funds in litigation that this analysis tells us is entirely foreseeable.  The Minister has relied on the environmental impact assessment provisions as a way of getting around the climate argument.  He knows well that this is a wholly inadequate framework for assessing the climate impact of this decision. As section 15 of the 2015 Act will not apply, any environmental impact assessment carried out under this Bill cannot properly account for the national transition objective or our greenhouse gas mitigation obligations. In any case, are we really to believe that an environmental impact assessment will throw up something that will make the Minister reverse course on this? It is literally written into the Bill that he can simply ignore such assessments. It is a fait accompli . However, we have clear jurisprudence from several different courts, including the ECHR and the UK Supreme Court, that environmental impact assessments for high-emitting projects must comprehensively assess downstream combustion emissions, must look at scopes 1, 2 and 3 emissions and must be grounded in the best available science. The cases in the rulings of these courts involve fossil fuel extraction but the logic applies equally to a project that will materially increase aviation emissions into the future. If this Government proceeds with an assessment framework that does not capture the full climate footprint of additional flights, arrivals and departures, carbon dioxide and non-carbon dioxide effects alike, it is inviting a legal challenge that, on the weight of recent European jurisprudence, it stands a real chance of losing. Exempting the Minister from section 15 of the climate Act does not make the climate consequences disappear; it defers them and it leaves even less room to manoeuvre for every future Minister, planning authority and local councillor, who will all have to find emissions reductions elsewhere to compensate for the growth this Bill will unleash. We are still waiting to hear from the Minister on where the equivalent emissions reductions will come from. Will it be farmers who are asked to pick up the slack, those in the transport sector or regular households, many of whom are already doing their best to be environmentally conscious? It is households in the Minister's own constituency who will feel the impact of this move most immediately by virtue of the fact that they live under the flight paths.  The consequences here are being pushed further downstream to the local planning authority, which can fiddle with planning conditions but cannot touch the one lever that actually matters: the number of aircraft flying overhead. We have seen where this can lead us. A ruling in the Hague District Court in 2024 stated that the Dutch Government had acted unlawfully in failing to protect residents near Schiphol Airport from noise pollution, breaching Article 8 of the ECHR, and ordered the Government to provide practical and effective protections to those affected. The same protections under Article 8 apply to residents here, and further protections apply under Article 40.3 of our own Constitution, which obliges the State to protect the property rights of every citizen. The assessment provisions in this Bill are unlikely to meet even the basic common law obligations to consult those whose rights are affected.  I referred earlier to the Minister making decisions on this cap based on economic interests and international connectivity. Can the Minister please define \"international connectivity\"? There is no definition in this Bill. Does it mean routes to specific destinations, frequency of services, the number of carriers or some other aggregate measures? We know we live on an island and we know we do not want to be stranded here but how much connectivity is enough? This approach to connectivity is just like the Government's approach to the unmitigated expansion of data centres. How much is enough? If the Minister is basing his decision on international connectivity, it would be helpful to know what the actual metric is.  On the economic case, I point the Minister to a study commissioned by the social council for Schiphol Airport. It examined what would happen to broad welfare under three different scenarios for the size of the airport in terms of flight numbers. Broad welfare, for the benefit of this House, is a framework that goes beyond GDP to capture economic output. It looks at employment, health, housing, noise, nature and climate all together, precisely the kind of holistic accounting that this Government has failed to apply to its own decision on Dublin Airport. The findings are instructive, and I seriously encourage the Minister to examine the report. The study found that even a substantially smaller Schiphol, with 250,000 flights, barely half of today's traffic, could still preserve a large majority of the connectivity that Dutch travellers actually use because the destinations that disappear are disproportionately sustained by transfer passengers rather than Dutch residents. The extra journey time imposed on the average traveller was measured in minutes, not hours. The most salient finding of this report, however, is that the aviation sector losses are dwarfed by the climate gains. In other words, restraint on flight numbers does not just reduce harm: on the Dutch evidence, it produces a net welfare gain once climate costs are properly priced in, even after aviation sector losses are accounted for. This study also acknowledges that capacity caps are not the only option. It refers to a cost-benefit analysis of the options available to Schiphol, tellingly titled \"Shrink or become sustainable?\". The analysis found that environmental and noise measures, including a higher distance-based flight tax, delivered considerably greater broad welfare benefits than a blunt capacity restriction does, precisely because pricing instruments let you target the noisiest, most polluting, longest haul flights rather than cutting capacity indiscriminately.  The lesson, then, is not that caps are the only available tool; it is that doing nothing and simply lifting the cap with no replacement mechanism, as the Government is doing here, is the worst of all options. Reducing flights or pricing their environmental cost properly can deliver a net gain for society. Unlimited expansion, on this evidence, risks a net loss.  What is more is that we have a persistent travel deficit in this country. Irish people spend more abroad than tourists spend here, so more flights actually takes more money out of the country than it brings in. Research shows this and it undermines the Government's claim that aviation expansion is an unqualified economic benefit. The serious international evidence shows that the relationship between airport size and national prosperity is far weaker than that assumption and that the environmental and health costs of unrestrained growth are not some marginal externality to be waved away. They are large enough, on a comparable European analysis, to turn an apparently pro-growth decision into a net loss for the country as a whole.  Finally - and this is frankly pathetic - this Bill provides an open invitation for airlines to bully the Government and talk down Ireland if they perceive that there is some inhibitor to their commercial interests in Dublin. Section 25 gives licence to the Minister to change planning conditions where they are perceived to be potentially damaging to \"the international reputation of the State in respect of air transport\". This is extremely open ended and essentially unfalsifiable. There is no objective standard for reputational damage, no evidence threshold, no definition. The provision could be invoked on the basis of adverse commentary from Michael O'Leary, a familiar noise to all of us. What do we think will happen here? We will have an airline lobby that is never happy and we will have incessant calls to expand and expand, with the airlines knowing that if they paint Ireland in an unsavoury light, they will get their way. We are enshrining corporate bullying of the State in our law. That is embarrassing and it is the cherry on top of what is fundamentally a regressive and bad policy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Duncan Smith  Last week the Minister accused the Labour Party and, by implication, myself of being anti-Dublin Airport and anti-growth. He knows me and the Labour Party better than that. This is a far more complex issue than he purports or presents it to be. I know where I stand on the airport, and my record stands up in terms of representing airport workers at all grades and all levels through the Covid pandemic and all the other difficulties. I want the airport to thrive but not at any cost. The values of the Labour Party, in terms of this Bill, are based on good planning and standing up for a good planning system. The implication of this Bill is that Fingal County Council, the local planning authority, is in some way unable to deal with the complexities, the needs, the desires and the implications of Dublin Airport in a planning capacity, that this has to be taken out of the airport's control because it does not have the expertise or the professionalism to deal with it, that this has to be taken in centrally and that only the Minister can determine what is right for Dublin Airport.  Nothing could be further from the truth. DAA, under previous leadership, has actively polluted its relationship with Fingal County Council. The planning application DAA put in in 2023 to raise the passenger cap was one of the largest planning applications ever submitted to Fingal County Council. The application was declared invalid by Fingal County Council, which said it failed to comply with various planning and development regulations and was misleading, inadequate and non-compliant with relevant regulations. In addition, DAA failed to ask for a series of pre-planning meetings with Fingal County Council. That is absolutely incredible for a planning application of that size and that import. By the way, it was not just about raising the cap; this was about 11 huge buildings, with tunnels under the aprons. It was a massive planning application. DAA put it in designed to fail because, ultimately, it wanted to get this matter here. It wanted to get its desires in the ear of the Minister on some amorphous definition of growth, which, as my colleague outlined, is difficult, almost impossible, to define. It is, however, a great weapon to throw at Opposition Members who have issues with this Bill: \"You are anti-growth.\" We are not anti-growth. We are pro-climate, yes, but we are also pro-good planning.  This passenger cap was brought in as a condition of the north runway through the planning system and it should have been dealt with and tackled through the planning system.  The fact that it was not is not the fault of the planning authority or the planning system; the fault is squarely on the DAA. This semi-State organisation rented trucks with loudhailers to drive up and down Swords Main Street in front of Fingal County Council's office, saying, \"Get rid of the passenger cap\". They sent them down to Croke Park when Dublin were playing in the all-Ireland last year, the loudhailers going, \"Get rid of the passenger cap\". This was childish, ridiculous behaviour, totally unbecoming of any organisation, never mind a State agency with such strategic importance as Dublin Airport Authority.  As for this whole thing that opposition to this is down to some NIMBYs in north County Dublin, we have to put that to bed as well. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae earlier was saying the airport was there before the residents. That is an absolute fallacy in terms of the reality of the situation. When it comes to aircraft noise, residents on an east-west trajectory were given insulation - some were - and the day the north runway opened, the planes took off and deviated 30% north and flew over Rolestown, Ballyboughal and other villages in north County Dublin which had seen big growth in housing and were not covered by noise insulation. They had done their due diligence when they bought their homes. They were told they were not going to be under flight paths. It turns out the wool was pulled over their eyes by the DAA and now they are being flown over every day and have no recourse.  These residents are airport people. They understand aviation and the airport better than the vast majority of people in this House. They do not want the airport to fail or aviation to fail, but they want a bit of fairness. They want the DAA to act professionally. I am not even going to get into the point about good neighbours and bad neighbours because that has been well made. They want the DAA to act professionally but how the DAA has acted over the last number of years and under the previous leadership has been an absolute disgrace.  We now have a Bill which is going to have untold consequences in terms of the planning system. It is a template for when a Government is unhappy with a planning condition or decision of any local authority; it will just bring in some primary legislation. My colleague, Deputy Ahern, has articulated incredibly well the setting aside of the climate action Act. It is a huge concern. The DAA has brought us here, the squeaky wheel is getting the oil and it is going to have huge impacts on our planning system and on our climate. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cormac Devlin  I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026. Last year, the airport saw 36.4 million passengers travel through it. It was the busiest year in the airport\u2019s history, up more than 5% on the year before. Passenger numbers there have grown by 46% in the last decade. The cap is set at 32 million, so last year the airport carried more than 4 million people above the limit that was imposed on it. The demand is real and the growth is real. The cap is the one thing standing against both. This is the heart of the matter.  We are not debating whether people want to fly to and from Ireland; they already are, in record numbers. We are debating whether the law should keep pretending they cannot. Dublin Airport is not just a transport hub; it is one of the largest pieces of critical economic infrastructure in the State. An independent study commissioned by DAA found that the airport contributes \u20ac9.6 billion in gross value added to the Irish economy. This is the equivalent of 2.3% of the entire national economy. It supports or facilitates over 116,000 jobs across the Republic. This is not a Dublin story alone. The same study found that 28% of the airport\u2019s economic contribution lands outside Dublin and the rest of Leinster, and that 31% of the jobs it sustains are across the rest of the country. When Dublin Airport grows, Wexford, Donegal and Kerry grow. The gateway is in Dublin and the benefit is of national importance. That is the figure that should focus minds.  The same independent analysis found that holding the cap at 32 million would cost Ireland an additional 17,800 jobs and \u20ac1.5 billion in economic value by 2030. This is the price of inaction, not a saving. It is a loss for the country. As an island nation with an open economy, connectivity is not a convenience for us; it is the condition of trade, tourism and investment. Research consistently shows that well-connected economies export far more than poorly connected ones. The cap works against every one of those elements, and it does so at our own expense. If a route cannot land in Dublin, it lands in another European capital instead. The connectivity goes elsewhere and so do the jobs. The cap does not protect Ireland, it penalises Ireland.  This Bill does not ignore the people who live around the airport. Their concerns, which were raised earlier, about noise and flight movements are legitimate, and they are taken seriously in this legislation. Before the Minister can make any order, An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la must carry out a full environmental impact assessment and an appropriate assessment, in line with EU law, with public consultation built in. The Minister must take account of the outcome. That is the right sequence: lift the cap, but do it lawfully, transparently, and with the environment properly assessed.  The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport did serious work in this regard. It received 136 submissions, held six public hearings, and made 16 recommendations. The Bill reflects that scrutiny. The Minister\u2019s power is confined to the passenger cap alone, an order falls away once a planning decision replaces it and the assessments are built into the process rather than bolted on after it. Some will ask why we cannot simply wait for the planning system. The honest answer is time. A planning decision on DAA\u2019s application to raise the cap to 40 million is expected later this year or early next. It is likely to be appealed, if not judicially reviewed. That could add another year of uncertainty. Airlines plan their networks years in advance. They cannot plan against a moving target. This Bill provides a lawful interim solution that addresses the cap while the planning process runs its course, and it protects that live application so nothing here delays it.  I welcome the Bill. It is a measure for jobs, connectivity and the economy. It is balanced and, on the evidence, it is needed now. I ask the Minister to confirm that the stakeholder forum planned for July will give the communities around the airport a clear and meaningful voice, alongside the airlines and the airport itself. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Barry Ward  I broadly welcome this Bill. It is, however, correctly contentious and controversial in circumstances where we as a country and as a planet face an extraordinary challenge in terms of reducing emissions and dealing with the consequences of climate change, which we see today as we all schlep around here in suits, sweating. I do have reservations about the de facto setting aside of the climate action legislation in the context of this removal of the cap, and also later this week in the context of the gas reserve Bill. It is problematic to entirely throw out responsibility in that regard. I would like to hear from the Minister what safeguards he has put in place to deal with that. Creating an open-ended situation is not the right answer, either.  I say that, however, conscious of the fact that Dublin Airport is the primary route to get people and goods in and out of this country, particularly from further afield. We are an island country and we do rely on air transport to get people on and off the island and to get goods in and out. I recognise the reality of the situation and the fact that steps have to be taken. Reference has been made by many speakers in this debate to the growth of over 40% in terms of passenger accommodation in the airport, and of over 36.4 million people in the airport last year. That is entirely predictable in circumstances where our population has grown by over a million in the past less than ten years. We know the country is growing. It makes sense, therefore, that the cap would also grow. You cannot have a situation where the population is getting bigger and bigger and, by extension, the demand for air transport is growing, and not reflect that in terms of the changes that are being made to the cap. I accept the necessity for this. When we look at air transport in other European countries, there is not the same restriction on airports in other European capitals as there might be in Dublin. It does not mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater or say that there should be no limit or control. I know the Bill does not say there is no control and there are procedures for orders by Minister and all the rest. I am just sounding a note of caution in relation to the complete removal of the restriction. I wonder about where the trade-off is. It does not remove our obligations in terms of meeting climate targets or emissions reduction targets. Where is the counterpoint?  Where is the point where we are going to enhance our emissions reduction if we are now de facto going to increase emissions from the airport? We know that emissions from the airport have increased with the increased air transport in and out. Again, I recognise it might be a necessity that comes with that but I also recognise that we have a necessity to act in terms of climate change and the level of emissions being produced here in Ireland, so what sector is going to have enhanced work to reduce emissions? Where are we going to counterbalance the effect of removing this cap to ensure that we do not let the situation with emissions completely run away with itself and leave ourselves and, by extension, everybody else on the planet in a very difficult position? I would love to hear a comprehensive answer to that question. I am not sure it is an easy question to answer, in fairness to the Minister of State, but I do think that we need to keep a check on our progression towards emissions targets and how we are going to manage that.  I do not have a difficulty with increasing air traffic in and out of the airport; I think it is a necessity. It is a reflection of the reality but, therefore, we must look at some other sector where we can reduce them. The Minister of State will be aware that there are other sectors where we are not reaching targets or making the emissions reductions we need to make. Let us have that grown-up conversation, recognising the reality, and decide what we are going to do in the other areas to ensure that we do not just let the whole thing get away from us, which is a real danger now. We can see the effects of climate change in real terms, not just with hot weather but also with stormy weather and the effects that global warming generally has on weather systems and the risk we face as a country and as a world in terms of what those emissions are going to do. That is my primary concern. In principle, I do not have a problem with this but I do have a problem with the notion that we just scrap a realistic attempt to meet our climate ambitions and our emissions reductions.  It is a very well put-together Bill but I do have some issues with it. The first is the use of \"daa\" in lower-case letters. That is a branding function of Dublin Airport. It has created it and trades as daa. In statutory terms, my understanding from looking at section 2 of the State Airports Act 2004 is that it is DAA - Dublin Airport Authority with a capital \"D\", capital \"A\" and capital \"A\". I do not see where that has changed anywhere in legislation - I am open to correction in that regard - but the use of lower-case letters, which is a branding function by Dublin Airport, is replete throughout this Bill. It is like what happened when the Child and Family Agency suddenly became Tusla. Nobody actually authorised that in statute. It is the Child and Family agency but is routinely referred to by its marketing name, which is Tusla. That is all very well but I just wonder about that in the context of a statutory piece of legislation going through these Houses. The reference to daa is defined in the Bill as the Dublin Airport Authority - the company, that is - but I do not think it is appropriate to refer to it using lower-case letters in the marketing term.  I will now turn to provisions later on in the Bill that relate to judicial review. Section 29 changes the test for bringing judicial review against any order or any decision made and requires the applicant in judicial review proceedings to establish substantial grounds, which is a much higher bar than is usually required for judicial review. Similarly, section 30(2) removes permission for the applicant to amend the grounds on which leave was granted, which is done as a matter of course in judicial review proceedings. Sometimes circumstances will change or information will become available that will require the change of the grounds on which leave is being granted. This is part of a broader Government attitude to judicial review. I understand that judicial review is a pain and that it obstructs things and can delay things but it is also a constitutional right of the citizens of this State to go to the courts to review the administrative decisions of the Government, Departments and other agencies. It is an important right and I do not know about the constitutionality of curtailing that right in the way that it is being curtailed in sections 29 and 30, for example. If we are concerned about the length of time it takes to bring judicial reviews, it would be much better to invest in speeding up the process of the courts, investing in something akin to what was done in the Commercial Court over 20 years ago. It would involve investing in more judges and more resources for the Courts Service so that people could still have their opportunity to challenge decisions and do so in a real and meaningful way under the Constitution, but it would be done in a faster and more efficient way. I recognise it is a problem but the answer is not to curtail the rights of citizens to challenge the administrative decisions of Departments and agencies. The answer is actually to facilitate it to a much greater extent and I wonder if the constitutionality of those specific provisions has been really thought through from the point of view that they curtail citizens' rights. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ann Graves  As a an island economy, Ireland's connectivity is essential and, to maximise the benefits to our economy, we need an ambitious aviation strategy. That does not mean that all roads lead to Dublin Airport, which is just as well considering the traffic mayhem there at the moment and the lack of a sustainable transport system. A successful strategy demands balanced, connected infrastructure that leads to sustainable rural and regional development.  There is an all-Ireland dimension that also needs to be addressed. Brexit demonstrated how important trade into and out of this island is. Dublin Airport has long been operating over capacity. The passenger cap is not fit for purpose and was never adhered to. In 2019, 2023, 2024 and 2025, the DAA knowingly ignored and exceeded the cap. Last year alone, the cap was exceeded by over four million passengers.  As this Bill is very light on detail, Sinn F\u00e9in will be tabling amendments to address this. We will propose amendments to mandate the Government to update our national aviation policy, ensure balanced regional development and set out a long-term strategy for Dublin Airport that includes an all-Ireland dimension. The lifting of the passenger cup must be done in an organised fashion that benefits not just airlines and big business but also the wider community. To ensure this happens, our proposed amendments to the Bill would ensure that residents, community groups and other stakeholders are fully consulted with. Despite what the Minister says, residents feel that they are being ignored. The lifting of the cap will also require that adequate and well-resourced infrastructure is put in place to meet the extra demands from increased passenger numbers. This was one of the reasons for the cap in the first place. It was a condition of planning for the north runway development. This means a better public transport system that includes delivering the long overdue metro north project.  The lifting of the cap cannot be allowed to contribute to worsening the traffic chaos that already exists in Swords and Dublin Fingal East. We will also be seeking wider investment in insulation, better buy-out deals, agreed flight paths and overall better protection for residents. I understand why local residents are frustrated and angry. The DAA's engagement with residents has been consistently poor. It is not a good neighbour. Residents have been forced to take court action to ensure that their voices are heard. The cap is now subject to legal challenge under EU law. If the cap is not lifted before the forthcoming European court ruling, this could force the IAA to enforce the cap more strictly. This would have a very negative impact on Ireland's economy, particularly on our tourism sector. Regardless of the court ruling, local residents must be heard and included in a meaningful way by both the DAA and Fingal County Council.  There are a number of important unresolved matters that must be addressed, including night flights, flight paths, noise and kerosene fumes from planes waiting to take off. Night-time flights are of particular concern, with flights permitted at the airport increasing from an average of 65 a night to 95 between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m. Long before I was elected to local or central government, I stood with the residents in St. Margaret's The Ward and the people of Swords who have sought a better life and I have continued to engage with the wider community in Fingal east. I live in Swords and I represent the people in Donabate, Portmarnock, Malahide, Portrane and Kinsealy - all of the areas that are worst affected by noise at varying degrees. When I was on the council, I had a motion unanimously agreed for the Fingal development plan that highlighted the need to tackle the serious health and safety issue of noise pollution for the local community. Unfortunately this motion was ruled out of order under the direction of the then Minister.  The proposed legislation does not effectively deal with residents' concerns, including in respect of health and well-being. I can assure residents of Fingal east that I have heard their concerns and we will work tirelessly to ensure they are addressed. Our priority will be to mandate the DAA to engage meaningfully with residents; to enhance community compensation, including for voluntary relocation, improved insulation and mitigation measures; and to address the variations in flight paths while protecting residents and staff. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  If there is anything we do not need during a climate emergency when we are literally having a heatwave right now - we had one two weeks ago and we will probably have many more over the rest of the summer - and when the world is literally burning, it is the Minister is coming in today to lift the passenger cap on flights at Dublin Airport. People are saying that we need this for growth. We need to do something about the climate emergency and we should actually be reducing flights rather than aiming to increase them in any way, shape or form.  It has been amusing to listen to the contributions of some people who normally jump up and down about Dublin being the fount of all evil. This proposal is really against balanced regional development. I am shocked that some of those who complain about Dublin getting everything are okay with lifting the passenger cap on Dublin Airport. Currently, Dublin gets ten times more passengers than Cork. Dublin is the capital city but it does not have ten times the population of Cork. After this measure, it is estimated that passenger numbers will increase by 22% by 2031.  Aviation accounts for approximately 6% of our carbon emissions, with Dublin Airport making up some 85% of that. What we have seen from the Government is that the environment just does not matter. Whether it is data centres or flights, the message is that we are open for business no matter what. A Fine Gael Deputy asked how this measure will be made up for elsewhere in the economy. No answer has been given but it seems that Deputy will line up to vote for the Bill. The other issue is that the Bill comes at the request of Ryanair and the American airlines. Ryanair's carbon emissions are now 50% higher than they were in 2019, which is the largest increase among the top 20 most polluting airlines worldwide.  There are real environmental issues associated with lifting the passenger cap. When so much is already going through Dublin, there are implications for balanced regional development. Is there any other airport without a rail line that would lift its passenger cap? It is absolutely farcical that people walking out of Dublin Airport have to get a bus or taxi. I do not know of any other capital where there is talk of enlarging its airport in that situation. There will be increased car traffic as a result. A metro line from the airport to the city is in the dim and distant future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darragh O'Brien  Construction starts next year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  There are issues for residents. An earlier speaker said that everyone living in a house near the airport knew this would happen. In fact, people did not know. There are lots of much older communities in the area that predate the airport. People certainly did not know there would be relentless growth of the airport. The impact of airport noise on people's sleep is being studied worldwide, including by Dr. John Garvey, director of the sleep laboratory at St. Vincent's hospital. His evidence shows that airport noise leads to more cardiovascular issues in affected areas and those statistics are backed up internationally. We do not know what impact the lifting of the cap will have specifically on night flights but it will mean many more flights and much more noise for those impacted. In 2024, 6,700 more people were affected by airport noise, which was a big increase on the previous year.  Another issue is the lack of democracy. Fingal County Council will have any controls in relation to the airport taken from it, and the Minister is happy with that. It is being done because elected councillors are much closer to communities and residents. It is anti-democratic. As I said, airport noise in the Fingal area leads to a huge number of health issues and the lifting of the passenger cap will make that situation worse.  The Minister is from one of the impacted areas. The lifting of a passenger cap in any airport during a climate emergency would have to be queried. Will he answer the question asked by a Fine Gael Deputy before he came into the Chamber as to how the increase in carbon emissions will be made up for elsewhere in the economy and in society? We should know that before we vote on this Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Roderic O'Gorman  Ireland is an island nation and we all recognise the necessity of airport connectivity for our people and our economy. We already have good air links and they will continue. The question before us today is whether this legislation is a proportionate and appropriate way to balance our commitment to a connected island with our obligations to meet climate targets, protect local communities and care for our environment. My concern is that the Bill does not even make an attempt at balancing those competing needs. Instead, we have legislation that is one-sided in its focus, was constructed entirely with the desires of one set of stakeholders in mind, ignoring all others, and creates a set of real risks.  The first and probably most glaring issue with the Bill is its direct effort to undermine the signature climate action legislation that is intended to keep Ireland on track to meet its climate obligations. Last month, the Environmental Protection Agency reported that Ireland is on track to significantly exceed its 2030 climate limits. With less than four years until we are supposed to reduce our 2018 emissions level by 50%, the Minister has already announced that we are far off track. Raising the passenger cap by just 8 million is likely to increase flight emissions by about 24%. Yet, the Minister has indicated in remarks he has made over the past year that he wants to double the numbers currently going through Dublin Airport. This is not about saying people should not fly. It is inevitable that people will fly out of and into Ireland. The question is whether it makes sense to have absolutely no upper limit on flight numbers going through Dublin Airport, with all the connected climate, environmental and community impacts of that approach.  Just as significant is the message the Bill is sending on national climate commitments. In recent years, the Government has tried to undermine the climate Acts in numerous ways, particularly by way of legislative mechanisms. The Critical Infrastructure Bill, the Development (Strategic Gas Reserve) Bill and this Bill each contain specific carve-outs to exempt the particular issue they deal with from scrutiny under section 15 of the 2015 Act. There is a sense almost of pre-emptive guilt on the part of the Government. The exemptions are an admission that it knows these legislative measures will not stand up to scrutiny from a climate perspective. It is seeking to forestall any opposition before it even starts. In essence, the Government is seeking to remove even any monitoring of some of the most carbon-intensive industries in our country at a time when we are significantly failing in our climate commitments.  This is not an abstract issue. It exposes us to serious environmental, social and financial risks. We know there is a cost to non-compliance that is in a range somewhere between \u20ac8 billion and \u20ac26 billion. The removal of the obligation to adhere to section 15 of the climate action Act in relation to the passenger cap does not remove the Government's wider obligations under national law, international law or, indeed, under the European Convention on Human Rights. A legal opinion that was sought on the Bill found the lifting of the cap without introducing any other protections will expose the Government to a credible claim that it is in breach of Article 8 of the convention, which concerns the right to protection of private and family life, by failing to shield its citizens from the health impacts of the climate crisis. The same opinion also found the State had a procedural obligation to conduct an environmental impact assessment, EIA, including of all CO2 and non-CO2 emissions from arriving and departing flights, or face significant risk of being challenged in the courts.  The Bill will not make our climate commitments go away but it does leave significantly less room for manoeuvre for all sectors of our economy that are not insulated from scrutiny in the way the Bill insulates the aviation sector. In effect, one sector will have no upward cap on its emissions, while others will have to constrain themselves even further to allow that to happen. The legal opinion I mentioned makes that point quite starkly: \"The disapplication of section 15 of the 2015 Act ... directly impacts Ireland's climate targets, as the significant emissions associated with the Cap Repeal will significantly constrain the margin of discretion of public authorities to make strategic decisions about future infrastructure.\"  In short, this Bill is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Any disapplication will push climate costs away from aviation onto other sections of the economy and other sections of our society. Future infrastructure projects will be increasingly jeopardised and constrained to mitigate the consequences of what I would say is the reckless deregulation proposed in this legislation. The justification for all this that we have heard from the Minister this evening is that this Bill is critical for economic growth for our country, when no cost-benefit analysis has been carried out and we know current activity levels at the airport are incurring health-related costs, as outlined by other Deputies. A recent report by the UK Department for Transport on the economic implications from the expansion of Heathrow Airport found that the positive gains were outweighed by the social and environmental impact, which for that airport was estimated at between \u00a358 billion and \u00a382 billion. An independent cost-benefit analysis of the impact of this expansion is necessary, and that should have been conducted in advance of legislation being moved forward.  Compounding the Government's unbalanced approach to the legislation is the attitude that has been taken to stakeholder engagement. In preparation for this debate, I asked the Minister via a parliamentary question to provide information about the companies and the lobbyists he had met to discuss this Bill. The result is quite stark. The Minister and the Taoiseach were very willing to engage with the airlines and their representatives and that is absolutely fine; they are lobbyists. However, no efforts were made to engage with the environmental organisations to get alternative perspectives on this particular area. I note in particular that a number of environmental organisations actively sought engagement with the Minister, including Children's Rights Over Flights and Friends of the Earth, and these meetings were not granted on this issue. This is not a balanced approach. It appears that in the drafting of this legislation that perspective about the environment was entirely absent from considerations.  Deputy O'Brien is the Minister for Transport but he is also the Minister with responsibility for the environment and climate. Yet, he seems allergic to meeting organisations representing those particular interests. This lack of consultation feeds into the way in which this legislation is likely to impact on local communities. It does not appear the key concerns that local communities have voiced throughout this process and in detail at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport, when we heard on this issue, have been taken into account in a meaningful way in this Bill. Since the north runway entered operation, local residents living close to Dublin Airport have already highlighted significant concerns around a range of issues, particularly the issue of noise. I know the Minister has constituents in his constituency who have undoubtedly brought this issue to his attention. Deputy Coppinger and I have heard from people in places like Hollystown, Hollywoodrath and Tyrrelstown, where the impact of noise is a regular issue and particularly the change in flight paths from what people were told to what actually was eventually permitted. Of course, all of this is taking place with the current restriction and current cap in place.  I understand the Minister met residents of St. Margaret's and The Ward last month. I think they provided the Minister with an economic analysis they have done of the costs to health, particularly from noise generated from the airport. Local residents are already being severely impacted by the current levels of activity at Dublin Airport but, again, instead of engaging meaningfully with those concerns, this proposal is to introduce potentially limitless increases in the number of flights on top of the existing problematic patterns. I know from FOI requests that there has been more correspondence between the Minister and Airlines for America than with local groups. In advertising this Bill on social media over the last week, the Minister said that people's concerns would be addressed in a substantive way that is respectful of local communities. I do not believe this adds up when I look at this draft right now. The Bill does not in any way anticipate an assessment-of-noise impact and it again pushes responsibility for noise mitigation back onto the planning authority.  The need for air connectivity in an island nation like Ireland is unavoidable. Again, nobody disputes that. What is of concern here is the ill-considered way in which this legislation has been brought forward, without any recognition of a balancing or any recognition that other considerations need to be taken account of in bringing a change like this forward. The hallmark of good legislation is a balanced approach between competing needs within our society. This legislation makes no efforts to do that. It is single-minded in its approach and offers no idea as to what a proportional approach to passenger numbers at Dublin Airport might look like. To achieve this, it undermines the climate action Act and ignores those key concerns of local communities that have been voiced to us all on many occasions. This is a reflection of the way that the legislation was prepared in close consultation with the aviation industry but with the concerns of those key environmental groups entirely excluded. Ultimately, it will be ordinary people who bear the consequences of this approach in the costs of complying with missed climate targets and in the impacts from increased noise for those living in the vicinity of the airport. Again, and it is unfortunate to say, the approach being adopted to this legislation is more and more replicated across the Government's approach to all issues to do with climate and the environment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Muir\u00ed.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed  I join my colleagues today in emphasising the importance of Dublin Airport as a key international hub and the crucial role it plays in driving economic growth, strengthening connectivity and supporting jobs across the country. As an island nation, our connectivity depends on aviation and seafaring. Irish residents travel more frequently and over longer distances than their European counterparts, with air travel per capita almost double the European average. For that reason, the passenger cap constrained our ability in this country to meet clear and growing demand and its removal is a welcome and necessary step. Dublin Airport is central to our economic success. In 2025, more than 36 million passengers came through the airport making it the busiest year on record. Those numbers have grown strongly in recent years reflecting Ireland's openness and international reach. That connectivity is a huge strength, with more than 190 destinations, over 2,600 weekly departures and connections to 130 cities across Europe. Dublin Airport anchors Ireland in the global economy. That is the economic reality the Minister and I live in.  As the only EU member state with English as a primary official language, this connectivity gives us a unique advantage in attracting investment and building strong commercial ties with countries and like-minded individuals abroad. The economic contribution is substantial. A 2023 study estimated that Dublin Airport supports over 116,000 jobs across the State, makes a \u20ac4.9 billion contribution in wages and contributes \u20ac9.6 billion in gross value added. That is 2.3% of the national economy, give or take. Each job created can be linked back to Dublin Airport and the role it plays.  Tourism is another major beneficiary. In 2024, over 4 million tourists visited Dublin. On Dublin's contribution to regional development, many of those tourists came through Dublin Airport but went on from the city to visit many corners of Ireland. Dublin Airport was again at the heart of that success. As visitors numbers go up, so do pressures on local services and I reiterate my support that we look at that tourism levy again as a Government. If we are to get greater numbers in through the airport coming to Dublin and beyond, the tourism levy is a key element of making sure that Dublin has a good offering and is well maintained, open and welcoming to our visitors.  This expansion also presents an opportunity to lead in the area of sustainable aviation fuel, SAF. Whether through advanced biofuels or synthetic fuels, we are well positioned to develop expertise in this area. There are very limited quantities of SAF currently available on the market and development and deployment will need to quickly ramp up, as by 2050 it is mandated that at least 70% of the fuel supplied to many EU airports will be SAF blended with conventional aviation fuel. This is a gap in an area that Dublin Airport can inhabit. As the sustainable aviation fuel policy roadmap published last year highlights, there is a real commercial opportunity for advanced biofuel production in Ireland in the medium term.  In this respect, the roadmap identifies the national biomethane strategy as an important policy interlinked with SAF policy development. There is a big opportunity in Dublin Airport to lead out in Europe on this area. There is also a broader benefit. That same expertise developed in low-carbon aviation fuels could help address a major domestic challenge, namely, the 750,000-odd homes that still rely on kerosene for home heating. Developing alternative low-carbon and liquid fuels could support households where electrification is not yet viable, providing a practical pathway to reduce emissions. Aviation sustainability is not just a challenge, but a real opportunity for Ireland to lead, innovate and reshape how we connect with the world. In an area defined by environmental responsibility let us lead out. Let us become a European centre for sustainable aviation fuel.  The expansion of Dublin Airport is a positive for the entire country. However, it must proceed in a way that respects local communities. I ask that the Minister urges the DAA to continue expanding its residential noise insulation schemes so nearby residents are protected and insulated from noise as the airport grows. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Maurice Quinlivan  As an island with a dispersed population, connectivity is crucial to our continued economic development. To continue this development it is necessary to lift the passenger cap in Dublin Airport while also focusing on delivering balanced regional aviation growth. That is something I suggest this Government and its predecessor have failed to do. Last year, Dublin Airport exceeded the passenger cap by more than 4 million passengers. The 32 million passenger cap must now be removed. If not, and due to legal challenges, there is a danger that the Irish Aviation Authority could be forced into enforcing this cap more strictly, which will negatively impact our wider economy particularly our foreign direct investment jobs and tourism economy.  While we in Sinn F\u00e9in are supportive of the Bill, we are not uncritical of it. We will be introducing amendments to address gaps regarding regional development and an absence of an all-Ireland aspect to the Bill. The very fact that Dublin Airport is exceeding the cap by 12.5% shows there is great potential to expand capacity at our regional airports, specifically at Shannon Airport. Balanced regional development is essential to ensuring prosperity across Ireland and, as such, we need to see more ambition when it comes to the development of Ireland's regional airports. With 88% of all passenger traffic coming through Dublin, there is huge opportunity to expand the performance of our regional airports. Simply put, there has been insufficient capital funding to our regional airports, with only \u20ac82.3 million assigned for the whole decade to 2030. This level of funding spread across airports and across years is far short of what is needed if we are serious about improving connectivity, expanding routes and developing sustainable regional economic growth.  Shannon Airport has been performing very well. In quarter 1 of this year, 427,655 passengers used the airport, which is an increase of 11% on the 385,000 who used the airport in the same period in 2025. Comparing these periods, there was an even greater increase in the transport of cargo through the airport, with 5,443 tonnes passing through in quarter 1 this year, which is a 53% increase on quarter 1 of 2025. Increasing the use of Shannon Airport is crucial to improve the regional balance. A 2023 report noted that operations by Shannon Airport Group contributed \u20ac4 billion to the Irish economy. The potential is there to deliver much more. Shannon Airport has been performing well but has the capacity to grow its numbers easily enough. Its terminal has the capacity to handle up to 5,000 passengers. The year 2025 was the airport's most successful in 16 years, with 2.3 million passengers using the airport. Today, while we talk about the necessity of lifting the cap at Dublin Airport, we must also give consideration to enhancing capacity at Shannon Airport, an enhancement that should coincide with improved public transport services to the airport.  The mid-west, where Shannon Airport is situated, is uniquely positioned to drive regional balanced development. Shannon Airport has been the fulcrum around which the economy of the mid-west has been built. Within Shannon we have an industrial estate not too far away and in my city of Limerick we have several large international companies across numerous industrial estates that would benefit greatly from increased capacity and an increase in destinations serviced by Shannon Airport. Further to this, the airport serves as a gateway to the Wild Atlantic Way and some of the best golf courses in the world.  Having worked in the travel and tourism industry for nearly 20 years, I understand the challenge of attracting additional routes and new airlines to airports outside of Dublin. The Shannon Airport Oireachtas group, of which I am a member, is a cross-party group of mid-west TDs and has met many times with the Shannon Airport Group. From those discussions there is absolutely no doubt that they are ready and willing to see an increase in the use of the airport for traffic.  The lifting of the cap at Dublin Airport is undoubtedly necessary but this Bill stands as a missed opportunity to deliver meaningful regional development. The level of support provided to regional airports has, so far, been insufficient. Quite simply, ambition is not matched by support. An opportunity exists to enhance the performance of Shannon Airport and this must be seized at the moment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  I welcome the opportunity to contribute on what is without question a significant, far-reaching piece of legislation. Independent Ireland recognises the critical importance of Dublin Airport to this country. It is our main gateway to the world. It underpins tourism, supports our exporters, connects families and plays a vital role in attracting international investment. There is no point in pretending otherwise. If connectivity suffers, the national economy suffers and we are where we are. The current passenger cap of 32 million put in place under very different circumstances is now widely seen as a constraint. Businesses are saying it. The tourism sector is saying it. The workers whose livelihoods depend on those sectors are saying it so, yes, action is needed.  However, the question before us today is not whether something should be done; it is how it will be done. This Bill proposes to give the Minister sweeping powers to override existing planning conditions, effectively allowing a single political officeholder to amend or remove the passenger cap even while the processes are ongoing elsewhere. That is a very serious step. It represents a significant shift away from our established planning framework and towards a model where central government can step in and bypass the usual checks and balances.  I understand the frustration with delays. We all do. Communities across Ireland are waiting years and sometimes decades for critical infrastructure. Planning has become, at times, painfully slow and overly complex but we must be careful that in trying to fix one problem we do not create another. Once a precedent like this is set, where a Minister can effectively overwrite planning conditions in the name of economic interest, it raises the simple question, where does it stop? Today it is Dublin Airport. Tomorrow it could be another major project and the risk is that local voices and communities who live with the consequences are gradually pushed further to the margins. That is not a road we should go down lightly.  Independent Ireland believes in balance. We believe in supporting growth but not at any cost. We believe in infrastructure but also in fairness, and we believe that communities, whether in Dublin, Cork, Kerry or anywhere else, deserve to have their concerns heard and respected. That brings me to the communities around Dublin Airport. For many years, residents have raised legitimate concerns about noise traffic congestion and the day-to-day impact of airport operations. I have met a lot of those residents. Those concerns cannot simply be brushed aside. They must remain central to any decision. The Bill provides for environmental assessment and that is welcome, but it also allows the Minister to proceed even where the impacts are identified, provided the mitigation measures are put in place. That will raise concerns and rightly so. We have to ensure that mitigation is not simply a box-ticking exercise but something really enforceable that actually protects people's quality of life.  At the same time, we must look beyond Dublin if we are serious about balanced regional development, which this Government says it is. We cannot put all our focus on expanding capacity in one location. Airports in Cork, Shannon and Knock are vital regional assets. They are engines of employment, tourism and economic activity in their own areas but they need support. They need investment and they need to be part of a coherent national aviation strategy, not an afterthought. There is a real risk here that continued expansion of Dublin Airport could further concentrate activity in the capital, drawing routes and resources away from regional airports. That would be the wrong approach. We should be growing capacity in Dublin Airport but alongside meaningful development in the regions, not instead of it.  Another concern in this Bill are the restrictions on further passenger caps throughout the planning system. That is a profound change. Planning authorities exist for reasons. They provide a level of oversight and accountability that is essential in a democratic system. Removing their ability to impose such conditions in future essentially rewrites the rules and we need to be very clear about the implications of that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  In 2021, the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Act was introduced by the Government. It was supported by Sinn F\u00e9in and introduced the carbon tax. Today, yesterday and the day before Sinn F\u00e9in were saying they are against carbon tax. Yet, they voted for it in the climate action Bill. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  You must not have been here last week, with the amendment. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  They are now coming out saying they are against these things. Every week they jump up and down here saying they are against it but last week they decided they were going to fight for it. Deputy Daly is right; I was not here last week for one reason----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  The Deputy must not have been paying attention for a few years now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathy Bennett  We were wondering. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  I was the first person to come to the D\u00e1il in a truck protesting against carbon tax. The Deputies must not have been here that time because they never came out to the truckers. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Keep clapping yourself on the back there, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  They never came out to the people on the protest but they came out the last day to support them. That is what they did.  Now, getting back to this----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathy Bennett  It is better to fight with us than with the Government, is it not? We are recommending----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  The Deputies love talking about other people but they cannot talk about themselves. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Can we have some order, please? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Exactly. There is no order. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Where were the Deputy's amendments? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  This is what Sinn F\u00e9in tries to do to the Government. It will not silence me because I know what I am talking about. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Put in the work and bring in amendments. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  What way is the wind blowing today for Sinn F\u00e9in? Hold on, I must check. Here they are; the wind is over here. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathy Bennett  The Deputy is getting good laughs. The Minister is having a good laugh at him. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Good. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  Do the work on the amendments, Deputy. You are sitting back. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  The Deputies are still talking. Look at this, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Go ahead, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Thank you very much. To get back to Dublin Airport, I am delighted the airport is doing well but as regards climate emissions, the climate action Bill was supported by the Deputies on my right. They brought in that Bill. Where are most of the people who are landing here going? They are not staying around Dublin, are they? They are travelling throughout the country. Where are the carbon emissions when the Government is talking about that? What about the cost of fuel, which it wants to increase by 32 cent per litre? Where is the Government going with this? On the one hand, it talks about carbon emissions, while, on the other, it wants to expand Dublin Airport, which is 6 million passengers over quota. Why did it not look at Shannon Airport, which could add another 2.5 million passengers without any infrastructural change? Why did it not look at Cork Airport? Why do people have to travel from all different parts of the country to come to Dublin? It is because they cannot get connecting flights due to the monopoly in Dublin.  The people who live around Dublin Airport are all complaining about noise pollution and traffic congestion caused by people trying to get to the airport. What do the Dublin TDs say? Let us make Dublin more congested, they say, and stop any person coming home to Dublin to live with their parents or grandparents. Let us stop them because we are going to make sure we have all our eggs in one basket. Ireland should be the basket where everything is shared, rather than just looking to Dublin. I have brought this issue up more times, even in the convention centre. When I was in the Central Bank today, I said we were in the convention centre for a year. I brought the issue up that time when the former Minister, Eamon Ryan, was talking out of both sides of his mouth about carbon tax. What is the Government doing? It is stopping people coming home by overdeveloping Dublin and not looking after the rest of the country.  This all comes back to carbon tax. The Government will take more and more carbon tax and stop families from looking after their young ones and building their own houses. It will stop infrastructure in this country because of inflation, all of which has been brought on by the carbon tax, but it has no problem in letting buses and trucks travel from the port in Dublin. Of the passengers coming into this country, 83% travel down the country. I would welcome them to Limerick but they could have landed in Shannon Airport and come into Limerick or gone to Kerry, Cork or Galway. They could land anywhere in the country and we would divide up the carbon emissions, but, no, the Government just wants to extend one place. It wants to put suffering on the people of Dublin, whose families cannot come home, and build houses in this area because it is overpopulated. The rest of the country is crying out for business, including the other airports. The Government could expand Knock airport or Kerry airport, which would lower emissions. As for most of the targets, we see all the buses travelling down west on day trips before heading back up to Dublin again. All of it is down to carbon emissions, which the Government says it is trying to reduce, but, at the same time, it is trying to accelerate them. Where is the Minister's explanation for that?  I am all for working together but I am also for equality for the other airports, which should expand at the same time. How can they go against a monopoly that has all the connecting flights? There are only a certain number of flights out of Shannon Airport because the connecting flights leave from Dublin. That is a problem. If the Government wants to do the right thing, it should connect all of Ireland and let all the airports develop together. Then it should look at increasing the cap if the quota is too low. It should look at the issue that way. Increasing the cap in one airport while not helping the other airports and people around the country is wrong. It is not forward planning; it is Dublin planning. The Government is destroying the future of the next generation who want to come back and live in Dublin. It is destroying the lives of people who live around the airport with the extra flights that are going out.  Aeroplanes taking off at Dublin Airport are supposed to bank at a certain time. Now the airport is asking how it is going to organise that. The planes are supposed to go out 3 km before they bank. Now, because there are so many flights coming in, they are banking at 1.5 km out. That means they are going over more residential areas, yet the Government wants to approve more residential building and allow more people to live there. The Government should look in the mirror when it is introducing laws because it is breaking the law. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn  There are serious spatial development problems in this country. The Minister is long enough around these Houses to recognise that, and he should recognise it. A demographic change that has accelerated in recent years has been one of population moving from the west coast to the east coast. Currently, 40% of the population lives in the greater Dublin area.  The GAA did a very good report recently on the demographic problem we are hitting. Two thirds of the population of the country, North and South, live in a very narrow band along the east coast. Most university-level jobs are being located in Dublin. Young people have to move to Dublin to work in those jobs but, obviously, Dublin is too expensive. They cannot afford to live in the city, so they end up living 40 km, 50 km and 60 km away in a commuter hell as they try to hold down those jobs. That commuter hell is obviously bad for their lives. Spending two or three hours daily in a car is bad for mental and physical health. For people with a young family, it hurts the children they do not get to see and creates anxiety for them. It hurts the community because those people do not get home until 8 o'clock in the evening, which means it is too late for them to be able to volunteer in their football, soccer and rugby clubs. People are commuting from Ulster, Connacht and Munster into Dublin on a daily basis. Disastrous, lopsided, city-state spatial development is happening under this Government, with absolutely nothing being done to mitigate it or push against it.  While this is happening, it is not good for Dublin. Dublin is becoming more congested, with people having less access to housing and education. Transport facilities are becoming harder to access while, at the same time, schools are being closed in rural and regional Ireland, which is emptying out its young people. The average age of the population in Killarney is now ten years higher than the average age of the population in Balbriggan. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy because the energy of development usually happens with the youth and because regional and rural Ireland is missing its youth, it is also missing that development.  Some 50% of the State's total income tax revenue is spent in the Dublin area. The vast majority of foreign direct investment is going to the greater Dublin area. There are significant problems. Ireland is an outlier here. Many people will say that London is too big for the rest of the economy, but 40% of the Irish population live in Dublin whereas about 20% of the British population live in London. We are an outlier, in European terms, with regard to how horrendously lopsided we are as a country. What is the Government's response to that? Its response to the water pressures in Dublin is to spend billions of euro to take water out of the Parteen Basin and bring it up to Dublin. Most logical and spatially aware Governments would say we should develop the Limerick region and get the population into the region where that natural resource is located.  The same is happening in regard to airports. Today, tens of thousands of people will have left areas right next door to another airport to travel three or four hours to Dublin Airport. Some 40% of the people who land in Dublin daily travel west, where there are other airports. Shannon Airport can take 5 million passengers. The current number is not even half that. Cork Airport could take another 2 million passengers and Knock Airport could take another 500,000 passengers. There is massive spare capacity in these airports, and using it would cause no difficulty at all.  Putting all your eggs in one basket is dangerous in terms of exposure for transport.  All of us can remember the images of the fuel protests when the M50 was blocked. We saw people having to walk, pulling their travel bags behind them, up a motorway to try to get to the airport. Making sure all of the growth happens in Dublin at the expense of the regional airports also creates a problem. There is no contingency plan for Dublin as a result of this.  I will touch briefly on the issue of noise, which is having a massive impact on the towns and villages in north Dublin and south-east Meath that surround Dublin Airport. The airport is currently in breach of planning permissions that were put in place to protect people. That is wrong. The guidelines on this are not being implemented. The DAA has been given eight warning letters and two enforcement notices and is still not responding to this. There are 65 flights at night-time. Places like St. Margaret's are dying. The IAA is not doing the necessary assessment on the two runways working in unison. We want to be accessible to the rest of the world. As an island nation, we need accessibility but I plead with the Minister to start to inject proper spatial development into his plans.  There is then the issue of carbon emissions. Telling people to make sure there is less water in the kettle before boiling it and turn off the lights, while, at the same time, pushing up this cap and putting so many data centres in the country makes a mockery of the Government's ask that people cut back their own emissions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  Knock Airport has been one of modern Ireland's biggest success stories. Monsignor Horan built Knock Airport on a hill. Everyone said it could not be done. When the Government cut funding, he went to America and Australia and raised the shortfall himself. Over the past 40 years, Knock Airport has been a lifeline. It has helped hundreds of thousands of families see their loved ones. It has been so important to Mayo and the broader region.  The focus on Dublin and the Dublin-centric nature of the Government is crippling Dublin. It is incredible to think of this conversation on the passenger cap and all of the difficulties that are arising as a result, while regional airports are crying out for funding and have the capacity to grow, with minimal investment.  In the region of 40 buses a day leave Galway city and travel to Dublin Airport. That is one operator, Citylink, which runs 40 buses. It is incredible. Galway city is actually in the catchment of Knock Airport. In many instances, it is easier for a person from Galway using public transport to access Dublin city and Dublin Airport than it is to access Knock Airport. That is a fundamental gap and fundamental issue. It is one of the reasons the full potential of Knock Airport is not being realised or utilised. In the region of 40% of people using Dublin Airport land at the airport and then travel west. The Minister's answer to that is to increase the passenger cap. Would it not make more sense for spatial development and to people's lives if we were to alleviate the difficulties in regional airports and address those issues? On so many issues, including infrastructure, traffic, housing and employment, the focus on Dublin has not only been detrimental to Dublin, the east and the next generation of families who want to build and live in Dublin, but it has cost the west and regional Ireland the sons and daughters of all of the families who had to leave to seek employment in Dublin. It has cost the people of Dublin and their children the ability to purchase homes in Dublin. We see this focus on Dublin and an instinct to put Dublin first playing out in this policy.  I urge the Minister to take the opportunities presented by Knock Airport and the other regional airports. They are there to be grasped. Knock Airport serves a catchment of 1.1 million people. How can those people access the airport? They do so with tremendous difficulty. That is the answer. We do not have rail to Knock Airport. The Minister for Transport has an opportunity to drive the western rail corridor, not just from Galway to Claremorris but on to Sligo and connecting to the airport via a shuttle bus. He should make Knock Airport the first airport connected by rail. These types of measures will help the people of Dublin but they will also help the people of the west. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathy Bennett  I will not take lectures from Independent Ireland which recently said sport should not become a tool about Israel playing Ireland. The Minister should have taken a stronger stance on that, but Independent Ireland should not accuse Sinn F\u00e9in of anything when we are only trying to help the public.  I welcome the legislation, which will encourage tourism on the island of Ireland. However, it is a blunt tool which is not fit for purpose and may well be legally unsound. That said, there is an absolute need for the Government and the DAA to recognise the outstanding issues that local residents have. It is disappointing that the Bill does not provide that recognition. I appeal to him to work constructively with the Opposition as we seek to address these issues. In particular, he should mandate the DAA to engage meaningfully with residents.  I am also deeply concerned about the impact maintaining the cap could have on our tourism sector, which supports well over 200,000 jobs, often in parts of the country that have otherwise suffered from a dearth of inward investment. The tourism sector, as the Minister knows, has not had enough attention from the Government in particular areas where it is needed. This is especially case with regard to the many workers in the sector on the minimum wage and the Government's decision to delay the implementation of the national living wage until the end of the decade. Crucially, the tourism sector has immense potential in terms of geographical spread and even greater again in terms of its ability to contribute to economic regional balance. I contend that has yet to be realised. Our regional airports are necessary components of balance, which has been lacking.  Galway and Sligo airports are closed to commercial traffic. Kerry, Knock and Waterford airports need far greater consideration, Waterford Airport in particular where positive development is being seen almost in spite of the Government. It is a positive thing that we can look to Dublin Airport as having even greater potential, but with 88% of passenger traffic passing through that airport, it would be wrong to think our regional airports do not have more to offer. We need to encourage more tourists to visit the untapped parts of the country beyond Dublin and the larger and more traditional destinations. There is not a county in Ireland that lacks the potential to draw great numbers of tourists. I was a member of the Sliabh Beagh Partnership Committee when I was a councillor. I was delighted to see the allocation of funding last year to develop the Sliabh Beagh area as an eco-tourism destination. I know that every county has similar potential. Investment is needed but so too is greater encouragement for tourists to travel to all destinations. All of our regional airports have a role to play in this.  Derry and Belfast also need particular consideration in the context of cross-Border tourism. It should be recognised that to maximise tourism potential on the island of Ireland, all airports on our island need to be considered. We should seek to remove the hurdles and recognise that Ireland is a single destination, one that has a diverse range of offerings in every corner of the country and the space in-between. In that context, I appeal to the Government to progress this legislation, but to do so in the context of a wider, considered aviation strategy in which balanced regional development, including tourism, are to the fore.  Ireland, as the Minister knows, has 32 counties. We need to encourage tourism to all counties and to increase flight caps nationwide, not just in Dublin. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Transport (Deputy Darragh O'Brien)  I thank all Deputies for the contributions they have made. I thank them for the constructive contributions that were made by most. It is unfortunate that the Members who were some of the most vociferous opponents and made the most impassioned pleas have not remained in the Chamber to get an answer to the questions or the points they have raised. I hope that will be what Committee Stage is for.  I will deal with regional growth and regional airports in a moment, but first, this Bill provides us an opportunity to deal with a legacy issue that is there and, frankly, to deal with some issues that DAA under previous management did not deal with. This condition was on two planning applications going back to 2007 and 2008. It should have been dealt with before this. It is unsustainable that it remains in place. This cap will be lifted through this legislation in a sustainable and respectful way to adjacent communities. To complement that is the draft decision of the Aircraft Noise Competent Authority, ANCA, which it just issued last month in relation to noise. There are real noise issues with some communities. I listened to Deputy Coppinger and Deputy Ahern of Labour, whose points I may speak to in a moment, but as I said earlier on in the debate, the reality of it is I live beside the airport. I represent an airport community. We know how important that airport is. We know that in some incidences that relationship between the airport and some local communities has not been as it should be and needs to improve further. The draft regulatory decision by ANCA will be a very important one. I have written directly to the airport in relation to expansion of the noise insulation scheme. We want to see that happen. The ANCA decision will allow that happen. We want to see improvement to the voluntary purchase scheme for those directly impacted. I talk about residents who I have met in St. Margaret's, the Ward and the wider area, but also residents in parts of Portmarnock for whom noise insulation needs to be addressed.  Deputy Toole and some others mentioned flight paths, which was valid. I am committing here that we will carry out an independent assessment of flight paths. There have been issues for residents where flight paths and planning permissions have been granted and they have not seen those flight paths operate as they were approved. That is not acceptable. A retention application went in on that. That is something I am committing to the House that we will have an independent assessment of the flight paths operated out of Dublin Airport.  Dublin Airport does need to continue to grow, and it is growing. It underpins jobs, as Deputy Daly said on behalf of Sinn F\u00e9in. It is recognised, as other Deputies said, how many thousands of jobs, livelihoods and families are sustained by the airport. I also refer to the international connectivity we derive from the airport as an island nation within Europe. I was surprised that the Labour Party spokesperson on transport needed a definition to try to understand what international connectivity is about.  I broadly welcome the input to the debate. Residents are to the forefront of my mind; as are those residents' jobs and people's jobs. That has been rightly raised here because some, like Deputy Richard O'Donoghue, have tried to paint it as some Dublin instead of any other airport thing. That is just not true. We are in the middle of a \u20ac200 million investment in Cork Airport at the moment. Let us look at the regional airports. Cork Airport is up 13% from 2024 to 2025 with 3.46 million passengers. Deputy Quinlivan mentioned Shannon Airport; I have been there on a number of occasions. It is up 9% in passenger growth on a full year basis to 2.3 million, with capacity to do more and a very good capital plan. We have now brought Shannon Airport into the regional airports programme. We have changed the regional airports programme to enable us to assist and fund Shannon. I want Shannon Airport to grow. It is growing. I want Cork Airport to continue to grow. It is also growing, thankfully. I want Ireland West Airport at Knock to continue to grow. Its numbers are up 13.5% year on year. I was at the 40th anniversary of the airport at Knock. It is a wonderful facility and it is touching on a million passenger journeys through there. Kerry Airport is at 440,000 passengers, up about 5.5% year on year. As regards Donegal Airport, also critical to the northwest region, we have made sure we are supporting the PSO service and the schedule there. That is really important. On an all-island basis, we are funding through the Taoiseach's shared island initiative, the PSO that will enable us to start the Dublin to Derry route again. That will also be great for connectivity in that area. We do have Belfast International Airport on the island as well. We have to look at this on an island basis.  Some have asked about a national aviation policy. We have committed to doing that. We will be bringing forward an issues paper later this year and will seek public consultation into a new national aviation policy. We are world leaders in aviation. Some people want to ignore that. We have the largest airline in Europe. Some of the CEOs of the top companies all the way across the world are actually Irish. We have great expertise and a great track record in this sector too. If we look at the area of leasing, over 50% of the aircraft that fly across the world are leased in this country. Aircraft engines are leased in this country. There is also the expertise that our MRO sector has, underpinning tens of thousands of other jobs. There is a new facility open in Knock airport where aircraft engines are being repurposed. Lots of really good things are happening here. We cannot have a situation whereby, through a legacy planning condition, the main international airport - I say the main, not the only - and an airport that is also an international hub is stifled in its growth. If we do not address this we may not only be looking at stifling its growth. Deputy O'Gorman seems to want that we go back to the 32 million cap. Some 34.6 million passengers went through the airport last year. If you cut those numbers you are cutting jobs, connectivity and routes. I do not think anyone can say with any degree of honesty that this is something the general public across Ireland would want. Even among many of my constituents, the vast majority of them support the move to remove the cap in a sustainable way. There are others who do not - let us be straight about that too - and I respect where they are coming from. A lot of that has been down to the way they feel and the way they have been treated over ten, 15 and 20 years. I want that to improve. The airport has to operate under a good neighbour policy. I can assure the House that the board that is there, the interim chief executive, the management team and the new chairperson who is coming in, are really clear about that and they want to that to happen. In many incidences they do. This is not just through community benefit funds and others. We need to see expansion of the noise insulation schemes and the other things I have mentioned. The new national aviation policy will be important in that regard to underpin this. I can assure Members that we will work on a constructive basis through Committee and Remaining Stages on this Bill. It is a very important piece of legislation. I am committing to the House on the independent assessment of flight paths that we will carry out.  To those who came into the House and said there is no environmental considerations in this Bill, that is not true. It is absolutely not true. It is clear throughout the Bill. Those assessments will be assessed by An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la; not by the Department or by me as Minister, and rightly so. I am just surprised the leader of the Green Party is not very clear on our obligations under the climate Act or our international obligations under climate agreements. The emissions of the aviation sector are not counted in that sector. As a small island nation, we do not have large industrials here. We are moving in the right direction in relation to emissions reductions. We also have to see how we connect with the rest of the world, how we continue to drive growth in that sector, continue to ensure technological advances in aviation continue where we are reducing emissions and fuel use, and that we look at alternative fuels. We have to do more than look at it but also look at how we can improve the blend, as Deputy \u00d3 Muir\u00ed was mentioning earlier in relation to the work we have done on SAF. We are one of the first European countries to come out with a SAF roadmap.  This legislation is urgent. It is priority and it is needed. I welcome the support from most of the House, though not from all, to look very clearly at what we are intending to do. We are not intending to rip up the planning Act in any way, shape or form. We are dealing with the legacy issue here in a way that is fully respectful of our environmental considerations. We are also ensuring that the airport operates under a good neighbour policy and improving the situation for the small number of residents who are very directly impacted. We want to operate and move this legislation through in an efficient way but in a fair and balanced way, which we will also do. I thank the Deputies for their contribution. I thank my own team from the Department who have been here assiduously taking notes of contributions, as have I. That will inform us as we go into the Committee, Report and Final Stages of the debate, which I understand we intend to have next week in the D\u00e1il. Then from there it will go to the Seanad.  I very much appreciate people's time here today and their input into this important legislation. Let us move on and get this done for the good of our country, of the Dublin region and of all of us by virtue of the jobs and economic growth it underpins. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Second Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/70","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/70\/dail\/motion\/referral","houseCode":"dail","stage":"motion","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darragh O'Brien","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Darragh-O'Brien.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Transport (Deputy Darragh O'Brien)  I move:  That the Bill be referred to the Select Committee on Transport pursuant to Standing Orders 103 and 188. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Dublin Airport (Passenger Capacity) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Leas-Cheann Comhairle  Seanad \u00c9ireann has passed the \u00dadar\u00e1s na Gaeltachta Bill 2024, without amendment. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Offences against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 and Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009: Motions","counts":{"speechCount":21,"speakerCount":12},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Catherine Ardagh)  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann resolves that sections 2 to 4, 6 to 12, 14 and 17 of the Offences against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 (No. 39 of 1998) shall continue in operation for the period beginning on 30th June, 2026 and ending on 29th June, 2027.  The two motions before the House seek the approval of D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann to continue in force provisions in the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 and the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009 aimed at combating terrorism and organised crime. Given the nature of these important provisions, the Houses of the Oireachtas have decided that they should be periodically reviewed. The Minister for Justice, Home Affairs, and Migration is required to lay reports before the Oireachtas on the use of the relevant provisions in the two Acts. Reports covering the 12 months up to 31 May 2026 were placed in the Oireachtas Library on 19 June.  Deputies will be aware that the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 was enacted in the aftermath of the Omagh bombing in August 1998. This was a necessary and proportionate response to an atrocious and barbaric act and the murder of 29 innocent people by the Real IRA. These provisions of the criminal law provide strong legislative powers to ensure that An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the courts are in a position to meet the challenge laid down by those opponents of peace. Section 18 of the 1998 Act provides that sections 2 to 4, inclusive, 6 to 12, inclusive, 14 and 17 must be renewed by the Oireachtas at least annually if they are to remain in force.  The report laid before the House includes information provided by the Garda Commissioner on the use of the provisions in question over the past 12 months and a table setting out usage figures for each of the years since the Act came into operation. It is notable that six of the 12 provisions to be renewed, those in sections 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, and 17, have not been utilised during the reporting period. Of course, the fact that a provision is not used in a particular year does not mean that it is redundant or unnecessary as the usage of different sections can vary from year to year.  It is clear that so-called dissident republicans, who have their origins in the Provisional IRA and INLA, continue to represent a threat. Despite the progress towards peace made over the years, they continue to seek to return to the fruitless violence of the past, as evidenced by two recent attempted attacks on police stations in Lurgan, County Armagh, and Dunmurry, just outside Belfast. We must continue to do all we can to deal with this threat. Let no one be under any illusion that these groups do not represent a threat, although we can be thankful that threat is lesser than in the past. These groups have remained resolute in their opposition to democracy, the rule of law and all that the Good Friday Agreement stands for. They remain wedded to brutality and criminality. It is also well established that these groups have links to, and operate hand in hand with, organised criminals.  North-South co-operation in this area is crucial and co-operation between garda\u00ed and their counterparts in Northern Ireland is strong. Indeed, it is automatic when needed most. In recent years, the benefits of that co-operation have been apparent from successful joint operations between An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the PSNI. There is a long shared history between the two jurisdictions in counteracting terrorism on the island. It is essential that we continue to build on this strong co-operation in the post-Brexit period. The joint Cross Border Policing Strategy 2025-2027 provides a platform for An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the PSNI to build on existing strategic and operational collaboration and to strengthen policing capacity and capability.  I pay tribute to the garda\u00ed and PSNI officers who continue to co-operate closely and work tirelessly together to keep their communities safe and to counter all threats from terrorism. It is our duty to ensure that those tasked with protecting us from this threat have at their disposal the appropriate measures to meet it. In that regard, I am firmly of the view that the provisions whose renewal I am seeking today are necessary to support An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na in investigating, disrupting and dismantling the activities of terrorists.  In addition to providing information on the use of the provisions in question over the past year, the report laid before this House notes the clear view of the Garda Commissioner that the Act continues to be an important tool in ongoing efforts to combat terrorism. While the 1998 Act was a response to a domestic threat arising from dissident republican terrorism, as an open democracy, it is very important that we do not lose sight of the threat from violent extremism and international terrorism. There has been a general deterioration in the international security landscape in recent times, in part due to terrible wars in Ukraine and in the Middle East. In its most recent terrorism situation and trend report, published in 2025, Europol sets out the threat situation at EU level. The report confirms that terrorism, particularly jihadist and lone actor attacks, remains a key threat to the EU\u2019s internal security.  Last year, the EU published its internal security strategy, ProtectEU. The strategy notes the changed security environment and evolving geopolitical landscape, where the links between the EU\u2019s internal and external security require more action against the range of threats faced, including: hybrid threats by hostile foreign states and state-sponsored actors; powerful organised crime networks; the ongoing threat faced from terrorism; technological advancements and more. In response to these threats, the strategy sets out a work plan involving a stronger legal framework, better information sharing and closer co-operation. Ireland is not immune from the threats arising in this changed security environment and we must have the capability to deal with the threats arising. Building on ProtectEU, in February 2026, the EU published its agenda to prevent and counter terrorism and online extremism, which reinforces Europe's collective response to evolving terrorist and violent extremist threats.  As I have said, the views of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na are clearly set out in the report. That view is that the continued operation of these provisions is required. It is my strong view, and the strong view of the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, that the relevant sections should be continued in operation for a further 12 months.  Section 8 of the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009 is also the subject of a motion before the House. It refers to a small number of serious organised crime offences that are set out in Part 7 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006. Section 8 of the 2009 Act makes these offences scheduled offences for the purposes of Part V of the Offences Against the State Act 1939, which is to say that trials for these offences are to be heard in the Special Criminal Court, subject to the power of the Director of Public Prosecutions to direct that the offences be tried in the ordinary courts.  The purpose of this provision is to guard against the possibility of interference with jury trial by ruthless criminal groups that seek to behave as though they are beyond the law. It was enacted as a response to a number of difficulties where the justice system was considered to be under serious threat from organised crime. Organised crime groups had shown a particular ruthlessness in their activities, including attacks on witnesses and intimidation of jurors. It was imperative that the criminal justice system was robust enough to withstand the assault launched upon it through intimidation and violence. I believe most Deputies will agree that imperative remains. The House will be aware of the threat that society and the criminal justice system face from groups that will stop at nothing in pursuit of their criminal activities. There is no disputing the damage they have inflicted upon communities throughout the country. Their willingness to resort to extreme violence and their flagrant disregard for communities is apparent.  Supporting the efforts of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to combat organised crime and to bring to justice those involved remains a priority for the Government. This is reflected in the record allocation of over \u20ac2.59 billion in budget 2026, which allows for sustained investment in recruitment, equipment, technology and vehicles. An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is working intensively to bear down on the criminals involved and deserves praise for its considerable successes in disrupting their activities, in making significant seizures of drugs, cash, and weapons, in bringing criminals to justice, and, most importantly, in preventing further loss of life.  I draw attention to a joint task force operation in April between An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the PSNI, resulting in \u20ac5.2 million of drugs seized in Larne Harbour, and a joint An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na operation with Revenue which seized \u20ac10.5 million in cocaine at Rosslare Harbour in October 2025. Deputies will also be aware of significant cases in which individuals have been convicted and sentenced in the Special Criminal Court in recent weeks. I acknowledge this important work and the brave garda\u00ed who persevere with it, day in, day out.  The report that the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, has laid before the House in accordance with section 8 covers the period from 1 June 2025 to 31 May 2026. It includes information provided by the Garda Commissioner on the use over the past 12 months of the provisions in question and details the relevant offences. It is clear from the report that An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na made a significant number of arrests in respect of the offences relevant to section 8 of the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009, with 33 charges laid before the courts. One of these was laid before the Special Criminal Court and three convictions were recorded during the reporting period. The view of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is clearly set out in the report and it is that the continued operation of this provision is required. It is my strong view, and the strong view of the Minister, that section 8 should be continued in operation for a further 12 months.  The House will be aware that the majority and minority reports of the independent review group were published in June 2023. The majority recommended the repeal of the Acts and their replacement with modern bespoke legislation. As part of this, the assessment of the majority of the review group was that there is, and will continue to be, an ongoing need for a non-jury court as permitted by the Constitution to try serious criminal offences in certain limited and exceptional circumstances. I take seriously that assessment in the context of safeguarding the security of the State and our citizens. The majority also devised a suite of proposals in relation to how the court might operate to uphold the rights of accused persons and to support transparency and maintain public confidence.  I and the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration are firmly of the view that the Offences Against the State Acts have served our country well in combating both subversives and organised crime and have fulfilled a vital role in our criminal justice system. The Special Criminal Court was established to respond to the threat to the State and its people from republican terrorism over the decades and it continues to deal with the threat posed by terrorism and the most serious organised crime cases. It serves to eliminate the very real risk to jurors and potential jurors by subversives and ruthless crime groups who place no value on human life. While it is, of course, my firm view that trial by jury should be preserved to the greatest extent possible, I have a responsibility not to ignore the threat posed by such groups.  I highlight the fact that, in accordance with that principle, the Special Criminal Court is only used in very limited circumstances. I am informed that there were 18 defendants brought before the Special Criminal Court last year on 104 charges. Indeed, the vast majority of scheduled offences continue to be dealt with in the ordinary courts and the DPP on her website has set out very clearly the decision-making process involved where An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na recommends that a case be tried in the Special Criminal Court. Last year, the Minister informed the Government that he accepted, in principle, the recommendations of the majority report. Accepting the recommendations of the majority report sets a clear direction for reform. Proposals for new legislation are currently under development and the Minister will return to the Government in due course with these.  In the meantime, and in conclusion, as set out in the two reports laid before the House, it is the clear view of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na that the provisions in the 1998 Act and the 2009 Act continue to be necessary and effective in ongoing efforts in the fight against terrorism and serious organised crime. On the basis of the information set out in those reports, and on the advice of the Garda authorities, I propose that the House should approve the continued operation of the relevant provisions of the 1998 Act and the 2009 Act for a further 12 months, commencing on 30 June 2026. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  I move amendment No. 1:  To insert the following after \"ending on 29th June, 2027\":  \"; and  \u2014 calls on the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration to bring forward legislation to give effect to the recommendations of the Independent Review Group without further delay.\".  T\u00e1 d\u00edom\u00e1 orm go bhfuil muid ag filleadh ar ais ar\u00eds anseo ag athnuachan cumhachta\u00ed \u00e9igeand\u00e1la agus reachta\u00edochta at\u00e1 as d\u00e1ta. Ba cheart go nd\u00e9ile\u00e1lfadh an Rialtas leis seo roimhe seo. It is disappointing that we are back here once again renewing emergency powers and outdated legislation. Promised proposals on this matter have not been delivered and it seems that Government is either incapable or unwilling to deliver them. Not only has there not been any progress, the prospect of movement to implement the proposals of the independent review seems further away than ever.  When the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, who, for the second year in a row, is not here to discuss this motion, first came into office we were told to expect some proposals to be brought forward by the end of last year. When I asked again recently by way of parliamentary question, no indicative timetable could be given. In the Minister of State's speech, she left it until the very end and, within that, there were just two paragraphs where there was any reference to the independent report that was commissioned by the Government at a large expense to the taxpayer. Now, she is saying that the Minister will return in due course. It is as clear as absolute mud. I am beginning to wonder if the Minister has any intention of dealing with this issue during his term of office. That is why it is disappointing that we are back here once again renewing provisions in an Act which we know, because the expert committee we established told us so, should have been replaced a long time ago.  Last year, the Government belatedly acknowledged that the offences against the State legislation had to be overhauled, but it is three years now since the publication of the independent review on the Offences Against the State Acts that was chaired by Mr. Justice Michael Peart. There has been absolutely no progress in the time since. In fact, we have probably moved backwards over the past 12 months. To remind the House, the independent review group publication in 2023 recommended that the Offences Against the State Act be abolished in its entirety, with a majority recommending that a new non-jury court replace the Special Criminal Court to try serious criminal offences for which a threshold has been reached. Sinn F\u00e9in has repeatedly called for the proposals of this report to be implemented and for legislation to be brought forward. As the Government has not acted and shows no sign that it is going to act, I wish to inform the House that I, along with my colleague, Deputy Mark Ward, will be introducing a Bill complied in conjunction with the OPLA to compel the Government to act on the independent review. That the Offences Against the State Acts are outdated is undisputed. That emergency legislation should not be used on an ongoing basis is without question. Just think about what we do here. On an annual basis, we renew emergency legislation. We have been doing that for decades. We need a modern legal framework to effectively address organised crime and to properly protect jurors.  There are serious issues in relation to organised crime that our courts and garda\u00ed must be empowered to tackle. We are all in agreement on that. Recently, we have seen activities in respect of the Kinahan gang. We saw the recent incident involving a Swedish contract killer who died in Limerick. We need a sophisticated modern legal system to deal with organised crime, not outdated legislation that needs to be renewed on an annual basis. These are circumstances and situations that bear no relation to the situation when the legislation was first introduced. We are approaching 90 years since the Offences Against the State Act was initially introduced. The legislation has moved significantly from its original intention.  These emergency power legislations were expanded with the creation of the Special Criminal Court in 1972 and then further expansions of the Act in 1998 following the Omagh bomb. The Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009 was enacted to put in place certain additional legislative measures to tackle organised crime. What we have had is successive Governments repeatedly dragging their feet on dealing with this issue, despite that there is widespread criticism, both domestically and internationally,of the continuation of the Offences Against the State Acts. Logically, the time to deal with this would have been in the immediate aftermath of the Good Friday Agreement. Many would have expected it to be the case.  To remind Members of the House what the Good Friday Agreement said, specifically referencing the use of emergency legislation, it said that the Irish Government will \"initiate a wide-ranging review of the Offences against the State Acts with a view to both reform and dispensing with those elements no longer required as circumstances permit\". Following the Good Friday Agreement, the Hederman committee chaired by a former Supreme Court justice conducted a review of the Offences Against the State Act published in August 2002. Its recommendations included new legislation and the repeal of existing legislation. Does that sound familiar? That was in 2002; here we are in 2026 and of course those recommendations were never implemented. That is the crux of the problem. There is little confidence based on the track record and on the Minister of State's statement today that the Government will actually deal with this issue. There is a real concern with the level of delay and inaction we have seen that the independent review will similarly end up on a shelf somewhere to be cited in 20 years' time by whoever replaces us in these Houses if there is a continuation of the go-slow Governments we have had to date.  In our submission to the independent review of the Offences Against the State Act, Sinn F\u00e9in called for a number of things, specifically, an end to the Offences Against the State Act, an end to emergency legislation and the replacement of the current Special Criminal Court with a new, non-jury human rights-compliant system. The independent review group recommended that the Offences Against the State Act be abolished in its entirety with a majority recommending a new non-jury trial replace the Special Criminal Court to trial serious offences for which a threshold has been reached. It is unacceptable we are not seeing any movement on the implementation of these proposals. I have said, and I will repeat, I want to work constructively with the Minister on this but we can only do that if we get some movement or real clarity of intention on the part of the Minister.  We in Sinn F\u00e9in have argued that the legislation should stipulate that the courts be provided with the power to decide on whether a non-jury trial should take place rather than the DPP as proposed in the majority report. The Special Criminal Court was criticised by the United Nations Human Rights Committee in 2001. Central to that criticism was the failure of the Irish Government to demonstrate that the decision of the DPP to certify that the applicant be tried by the Special Criminal Court was based on reasonable and objective grounds. The UN committee also pointed to the fact that the DPP was under no obligation to provide reasons for its decision. It is my view and Sinn F\u00e9in's that the legislation to give effect to the independent review should also include a higher bar than what was recommended in the majority report for a non-jury trial. The legislation should include a requirement of evidence of real and present danger that jury tampering would take place. Jury tampering is often cited as the reason for special courts. While it is a real concern, the argument is a little hollow if no action is taken to protect juries. The right to a trial by jury should be protected except in exceptional circumstances. To protect that fundamental right, we need to protect jurors.  The Law Reform Commission in 2013 recommended a number of steps that could be taken to give greater protection to juries, including the creation of a stand-alone offence of jury tampering. In our submission to the independent review group, Sinn F\u00e9in called for the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission in relation to the protection of jurors to be implemented and the practices of other jurisdictions to be examined with a view to adopting the best practice in line with international standards to protect juries. The independent review group on the Offences Against the State Act also called for this to be done. There is no reason for ongoing delays in doing so. I would like to see the Minister bring forward proposals on this issue in line with what the Law Reform Commission and the independent review group proposed.  The debate on the motions before the D\u00e1il today do not take place in a vacuum. While robust legislation is required to deal with the threat of modern, sophisticated organised crime, as I said earlier, the battle against such criminals starts in the community and on our streets. The criminal justice system must be adequately resourced and equipped to tackle organised crime. In addition to the failure to deal with the issue of the Offences Against the State Act since taking office, the Minister has done very little to deal with the recruitment and retention crisis in the Garda. The failure to tackle this crisis means we simply do not have enough garda\u00ed for crucial tasks which are the bedrock of crime prevention such as community policing. Interventions to prevent young people being dragged into crime, investing in communities and diversion and putting enough community garda\u00ed on our streets are all equally important. We know young people who get involved in organised crime are often groomed to be involved at a very young age. Preventable intervention at this age is crucial. We also need to ensure we have proper garda visibility in all communities.  What we have seen since the Minister, Deputy Jim' O'Callaghan, took office can give us very little confidence that the long-overdue overhaul of the Offences Against the State Act will be acted upon. If we are to take the Minister of State's speech today, this Government has no intention of moving on this area. The Government should be held to account to ensure the recommendations of the independent review group are implemented without further delay. That is why I tabled an amendment to the motions. I urge all Members of this House to support the Sinn F\u00e9in amendment. In time, Sinn F\u00e9in will introduce legislation to force the Government to act. When talking about the Special Criminal Court and Offences Against the State Act, it is noteworthy that this year marks the 50th anniversary of the Sallins case. It is way beyond time the people involved in that case received the truth and justice for which they have been campaigning for the past five decades. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Gary Gannon  This is the seventh year I have showed up to vote for something which I profoundly disagree with. I believe fully in a trial by jury. Ordinary citizens should be able to sit in judgment. When the State accuses somebody of a serious crime, one of the strongest protections we possess is the right to be judged by our peers. Yet, seven years in a row I have voted for something I disagree with. This year and last year, I have also been very conscious that if I was to take a stand and say I will not vote for it this time, I do not believe this Government and this State have the capacity to project jurors. That is a sad indictment of the system and a continuity of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Governments which have left us showing up and reaffirming a collective belief that the ordinary courts of this State are inadequate. That is not hyperbole; it is provided for in Article 38.3.1 of the Constitution which allows for juryless courts in the scenario that \"ordinary courts are inadequate to secure the effective administration of justice, and the preservation of public peace and order.\" That is effectively what we do every single year. We show up and say our ordinary courts are inadequate for the administration of justice. That should shame us all. As we talk about the various reforms and reviews such as the Hederman review in 2002 and the Peart minority and majority review, we describe the belief that our courts are not good enough to try the people who appear before the Special Criminal Court. That should be something we all take stock of. It is not a form of strength or a tough-on-crime position to try the worst of the worst in the Special Criminal Court. It is actually a concession; it concedes ground to these people who try to actively instil fear in communities like mine and yours that we do not believe the ordinary courts of this State are adequate or the State has a monopoly on violence for which we protect jurors within the State. That is a sad indictment on all of us.  Every year this House renews these powers, we acknowledge inadequacy. This is no longer 1972 or the darkest year of the Troubles; it is 2026. The people who have been responsible for our judicial system the entire time are solely Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il. The report laid before the House today tells us how many cases were tried in Special Criminal Courts last year and the year before.  One of the things it does not tell us is why the Special Criminal Court was deemed the appropriate court to try these individuals. I do not doubt for a second that some of the people who come before the court, recently and potentially in the future, are vicious criminals who would try to undermine our Judiciary and try to intimidate jurors and their families. All of that is absolutely true but nobody stops and tells me why we do not have the capacity within the State to prescribe the types of protections there are in other jurisdictions. We are an outlier. The Irish State is an outlier in the sense that we do not provide safety for our jurors. In Italy they have dealt with this with the Mafia. Lots of other jurisdictions have dealt with this. Ireland is really only comparable to Denmark at the moment. Everywhere else seems to make allowances in exceptional cases but we are saying that this exception is now becoming the norm.  Last year, the Minister said that he believed in the Peart majority report. I would disagree but where are we in terms of the actual legislation? There is an element of basic cowardice here that we continue to renew the Special Criminal Court without justifying the inadequacies of the Government and State as to why we cannot protect ourselves, or what we are bringing in with regard to reform. I would like to see that soon. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney  It is sad that we find ourselves once again standing up and making statements about the Special Criminal Court without any of the issues that it raises having been advanced by this Government. My colleague, Deputy Gary Gannon, has just mentioned the Peart review. As a party, many of our positions would align more closely with the minority report of the Peart review. Essentially, what we have here is a parallel system within our criminal justice system where people can, technically, be tried for the same crime in different courts that have vastly different conviction rates, one of which is not a jury court. If we want to experience equality before the law, one of the principles we should be upholding is that it is absolutely reasonable for people to expect to be tried by a jury of their peers. This for me is one of the huge issues, but besides that I believe the principle of presumption of innocence is undermined by the continuation of this parallel system.  Even if we park all of the principles around it, one of the biggest issues is the actual practical development. As long as we hive off the issue of jury intimidation and remove juries from certain courts so that we do not have to deal with jury intimidation from what we anticipate would happen, and rightly so, we will never actually deal with jury intimidation in our main courts. That is something this Government has to deal with. The Government has to lock horns with it and tackle it. There are a lot of ways in which juries need support in the existing system, never mind getting into intimidation, but right now we cannot get the data around it. We do not really know the grounds on which the decision is made to deal with jury intimidation by creating an entirely separate system for trying those offences. I need to see from this Government the research, the data and the consultation. Consultation was supposed to follow from the Peart review but this Government has not even dealt with the Hederman review, which was in the early 2000s. There is so much work that needs to be done to ensure we do not find ourselves year after year up on our feet talking about the lack of balance between human rights and what is absolutely and rightly preventing gangland crime. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I have very deep concerns about the operation of the Special Criminal Court. The right to a fair trial is a fundamental human right. The lack of juries and the operating provisions of this court are undermining that right to a fair trial. The Minister of State, Deputy Ardagh, and her Government are undermining people's human rights here. The Special Criminal Court was set up in 1972 as an emergency provision. Over 50 years later are we still saying that we are in a state of emergency in the State? There are clear examples in this court of mission creep and they should concern the Minister of State. They should concern us all. I urge the Minister of State to read the book Prophet Song by Paul Lynch. It will show the Minister of State how emergency powers are used against ordinary people. It should concern us all that these sit on our Statue Book.  In 2022, the co-leader of the Social Democrats, Catherine Murphy, called on the Government to implement reforms over the three-year period up to 2025. The Government absolutely failed to act on those recommendations and it failed to advance any of the reforms. Jury intimidation is not a uniquely Irish issue. Other countries deal with this. They have provisions and they have ways of doing it. The Government needs to look at ways other countries are doing it and implement them here. The Minister of State and the Government have absolutely failed to heed those warnings. They failed to heed the warnings from the UN, from the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, IHREC, from the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, ICCL, from Amnesty International, and from all of the human rights bodies who say they have deep concerns about this court. The Government's failure to change this has backed us into a corner and left us with no choice but to vote for these provisions. I think it is a disgrace. Our call is that in advance of next year's vote the Government would advance reforms to please give us other options here. My vote is not a vote for this court: it is a vote and an urgent call for the Minister of State and the Government to progress reforms. These emergency powers cannot stay on the Statute Book. Citizens in the State deserve a right to a fair trial and the Government is undermining that right. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Alan Kelly  As this is my first engagement with the Minister of State, I wish her the best of luck in her new role.  We will be supporting Deputy Carthy's motion again this year. It is just a few weeks since we debated the Bill to allow the State to support and participate in the work of the Omagh Bombing Inquiry. As we debate these motions again this year, it is vital to remember why we have these annual reauthorisations. We remember the victims of the Omagh atrocity and we think of their families, their friends and all those who suffered through the violence of the Troubles. We all know too well the impact of the sale of illegal drugs and the violence that creates and brings to so many communities around Ireland. As the State closes in on individuals hiding away in the Middle East, an issue I raised here in the D\u00e1il fairly directly with then Taoiseach Leo Varadkar on 11 June 2020, this legal framework while outdated and flawed in places provides vital tools to take on organised international crime.  While we in the Labour Party will still vote for the final motions, the Minister of State will know that the Labour Party has long argued for and supported the need for comprehensive reform of the law in this area. Others have spoken before about how jurisdictions in other countries deal with jury intimidation. It is long beyond time that we as a country dealt with this issue. That the State is not able to provide safeguards around jury intimidation is, frankly, unacceptable in modern times. To have this legislation on that basis is unacceptable and a failure of the State. Threats from crime and terrorism are constantly evolving and our legal framework must do so too. We said it last year, and no doubt we will end up repeating it next year given the way things are going, that there is no need for an annual vote on some of the provisions we will vote on in relation to this. These should be part of the permanent criminal code. Withholding information about the commission of a crime should be a permanent offence, and directing an unlawful criminal organisation should also be a crime rather than regarded as an emergency provision.  In the past, the Labour Party has also raised the absence of sufficient information to support an informed finding as to the adequacy or otherwise of the ordinary courts to secure the effective administration of justice and the preservation of public peace and order in relation to offences under the Act. Every year the D\u00e1il and Seanad are asked to declare that the ordinary criminal courts are inadequate and that a jury trial is somewhat not fit to deal with particular offences. This decision should be based on more evidence than we have ever seen provided when asked to make this declaration. We are never given any information as to the adequacy of the criminal courts or on the risk of intimidation of jurors. It is three years since the publication of the independent review of the offences against the State Acts. Last year, the Minister set out the direction he was going and that he broadly accepted the majority report recommendations to repeal and replace the Offences against the State Act. He indicated that new legislation would not be ready by now but failed to clearly set out what timeframe he would adopt for reform. Maybe in her reply the Minister of State might be able to give us some indication of same.  We have had the Hederman report in 2002, the Peart majority and minority reports, various other reports, reviews and recommendations, and the Law Reform Commission report on jury service in 2013. I could go on and on. The Oireachtas was called upon to repeal the existing Acts and replace them with a single consolidated Act containing significant reforms. The Peart review minority report went further and recommended the abolition of the Special Criminal Court. The majority report supported its retention but also recommended that there should be no blanket referral of offences to a non-jury court.  Instead, the DPP should use the power it already has to decide on a case-by-case basis whether there is sufficient threat to the administration of justice to justify sending a particular trial to a non-jury court.  Page 12 of the report states:  the current system of schedule offences under which certain offences are automatically or presumptively tried by a non-jury court should be abolished. Instead, the decision as to whether a non-jury court is used should, in every instance, be based on an assessment of the circumstances pertaining to the particular case.  The offence would remain in place and be triable in the ordinary way and the DPP would retain its discretion to transfer any particular trial to the Special Criminal Court. Looking to the minority recommendations, however, in a scenario where there is a permanent standing special court, the Labour Party would therefore support the minority recommendation that decisions on trial venues should be made by a judge and not the DPP. This should be based on clear criteria set out in the legislation that recognises the exceptional nature of a non-jury trial. This will provide an added layer of accountability and indeed, transparency.  The review group also recommended many other reforms and safeguards, including the repeal of many outdated provisions and offences. As the Labour Party set out in our most recent manifesto, we need to ensure non-jury trials are the exception and introduce measures to address concerns about jury tampering or intimidation. Modern technology has a crucial role to play in the implementation of reforms and could be used to facilitate such things as remote juries, like Scotland used not so Iong ago. That is why when the Minister and his Department eventually get around to publishing the heads of a Bill or a detailed framework for reform, it is vital that they carefully consider the proposals from the minority report. Significant issues around belief, evidence, prescription, disclosure and the publication of decisions will also need to be addressed in any reforms. This time next year when we come to debate these motions yet again, it would be far more useful for us to use the time to debate the merits of such published draft proposals if they come, and what further steps or reforms are still needed, or what changes collectively we as a Chamber or Oireachtas need to put in place. I also encourage the Minister of State to ensure that when her Department does get around to formulating more concrete proposals, it seeks the technical assistance of the UN Special Rapporteur on counter-terrorism and human rights to ensure the draft legislation is benchmarked against the best applicable international standards. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Before I call on the other Deputies, we are very lucky to have dancers from a prestigious, world-champion school of Irish dancing visiting, the dancers of the Cabe Academy of Castleknock, who are here with Deputy Emer Currie. I ask them to stand up and let us see their uniforms. Very well done to them. They are most welcome. I congratulate them at such a young age to be representing us on a world stage. I call on Deputy Murphy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Murphy  Fair play to them.  Here we go again with another one of these annual farces we have in this place. However, this one is pretty important. It is the nodding through of abolishing the fundamental human right to a fair trial by the Government and the vast majority of the Opposition. It is incredible that we do this on a yearly basis. Shamefully, it is again going to include Sinn F\u00e9in. For years, Sinn F\u00e9in has been using the promise of a slight reform of this diplock court as an excuse for not opposing it, after decades of correctly being against it. How much longer can Sinn F\u00e9in keep that up? The Government has been saying it needs these so-called emergency powers for 54 years now, so presumably this can go on forever. Most of the rest of the Opposition, including those on the left, also engage every year in this, the lowest form of respectability politics, afraid they are going to look bad if they defend the basic right to a fair trial by a jury of one\u2019s peers, even though every domestic and international human rights organisation from the Irish Council of Civil Liberties to Amnesty International, the State\u2019s own Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission and the United Nations unanimously oppose the Special Criminal Court.  The point of civil liberties is not so much to defend the rights of people we agree with, but to defend the rights of those we do not. The Minister said last year we would be here again in a year\u2019s time. Are we going to be here again next year? How much longer is this farce going to continue? The Minister of State has already told us that the only alternative to the Special Criminal Court is a slightly reformed and rebranded non-jury court. Shamefully, the vast majority of the Opposition, including Sinn F\u00e9in, is going along with that too, and supporting the idea of making non-jury courts permanent forever. The minority of the independent review group, which not surprisingly was a minority made-up of human rights experts, rightly saw no need for special, non-jury courts. The vast majority of democracies around the world see no need for them either. That is why I urge for a vote to be called on these motions every single year. People have a right to know where the Members of this House stand on fundamental questions of civil liberties. Do TDs believe that everyone has the right to a fair trial by a jury of their peers or do they support convictions in secret courts by a trio of judges based on the say-so of a senior Garda? If that had been the case with the seven Jobstown not guilty defendants, we would all still be in prison right now.  These types of draconian powers are always creeping. One day used against criminals which sounds reasonable, the next used against water charges protesters, Palestine protesters, striking workers or whoever else has been wrongly categorised as criminals or terrorists. Just look at the draconian measures imposed on peaceful protesters classified as terrorists in Britain and think that exactly the same thing could happen here and the Special Criminal Court could be used as a part of that cracking down on civil liberties. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  I welcome the opportunity to speak on this but it is a bit of a charade. It is my 16th year here and year after year, we come in here and it is renewed by Government. The Offences against the State Act was first introduced in 1939. There was an emergency then; there was the Second World War. The fact is that this is renewed annually now, 89 years later. That is a cause of great concern.  Numerous legal practitioners and the UN human rights committee, Amnesty International, and the Irish Council for Civil Liberties have all called for repeal or substantial reform of this legislation. The Government commission report by Justice Hederman in 2002, and more recently the Government\u2019s report of 2023, recommended changes, including the non-jury dimension. As I said, this is my 16th year for this. It should never be dealt with in this way. Emergency legislation is emergency legislation. I have stated before and I do so again, that the Offences against the State Act was at times used for political purposes. That is a fact. Refusal to answer loaded questions should never be used as a method of implying guilt, nor should the conduct of the accused during interrogation or at other times or by association. They have the potential to be abused, as has the word of a Garda superintendent.  The Minister of State\u2019s party trumpets - I was a supporter of it, maybe a reluctant supporter - the Good Friday Agreement, which referred to the Offences against the State Act. The Government stated it was committed to initiating \"a wide-ranging review of the Offences against the State Acts [1939] with a view to both reform and dispensing with those elements no longer required as circumstances permit.\" It is a different world now than 1939 or indeed 1970 or 1980. The Minister for justice said last year that: \"The main reason I believe the Act should be repealed is that the threats the State faces today...have reduced and significantly altered.\" I agree. Is it not time to confine this legislation to the history books or the dustbin?  While there is a problem with organised crime, there needs to be adequate legislation for that. There are suggestions around that. There is technology and methods for protecting witnesses. I understand organised crime and drugs cartels are a challenge for everybody, but all of those options should be utilised and we should confine this legislation to the history books. I hope we are not here next year. I welcome the Minister of State as a new Minister and wish her well in her job, but I hope we are not here around this date next year, renewing this outdated, draconian legislation. It has been abused in the past, I am not saying always, but it certainly has been used for political purposes and that has no place in the Ireland of 2026. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  Consistently, socialists who have been elected here have come in and expressed our opposition to these powers being extended. We are in agreement with the ICCL, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, the UN human rights committee, Amnesty International, and a myriad of legal experts and civil liberties campaigners.  The Irish Government likes to portray our country as a liberal democracy, yet it has this parallel legal system where there are no juries. The ICCL highlighted six defects in its submission on this issue, including lack of a jury; the dual role of judges as judge and jury; the extensive powers of the DPP; the claiming of privilege by garda\u00ed; and the acceptance of beliefs and inferences as actual evidence. Nowhere else accepts secret evidence from police officers as being sufficient to send somebody to jail.  I find it highly ironic that we were in here about two weeks ago talking about counselling notes and the Minister of State's colleague stood opposite me and told us there was no way in the wide earthly world their use could be outlawed because of the right to a fair trial being paramount in Ireland. One of the women made an excellent point: how come there is a Special Criminal Court then? You can now waive these rights when it suits you, but the Government could not intervene, for example, to do something that actually affects so many victims of crime. It is highly ironic.  We have seen in Britain in recent times things that we never thought would happen. Young people have been charged with terrorist acts, when the offence should have been criminal damage at most, for challenging companies that were producing weaponry to be sent to Palestine to kill people. They will be heroes in history in the future but now they are imprisoned as terrorists. This Government last year transposed an EU directive as to what constitutes terrorist acts. There is a definite movement in the direction of repressive legislation by so many governments. That EU directive includes grounds such as receiving training, travelling for the purpose of terrorism and public provocation to commit a terrorist offence - really dangerous stuff that can definitely be used against activists, including Palestine solidarity campaigners, environmental activists and many others in the future. It is time now to abolish the Special Criminal Court, to get rid of the Offences against the State Act and to stop using this as an excuse again and again each year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Deputy Gogarty's colleagues are not here, so he has the floor until one arrives or until the end of his speaking time "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  I will not use all the time. This is a mixed bag because we want to protect the citizens of this State from the wrong kind of people but, equally, we want to allow those who are not happy with the State to protest in a meaningful way without being lumped in with them. I support the motion if it is taken in isolation, in the absence of the real reform that others have been calling for, but I want to be entirely clear. As others have said, I do not agree that dragging it on year on year is right. I am very torn - there is no harm in saying you can be torn on weighing up legislation - because there is still a major threat to public safety, whether it is the gangland cartels or lingering dissident groups, some of which could be reactivated depending on how things are going. Obviously, there are also fundamentalists of various persuasions, some of whom are individuals with a propensity to violence. If they want to raise money for their cause through getting involved in robberies or if they want to maim and kill people because of their beliefs, these are individuals the Garda has its eyes on in this country and they are also a danger. They are not just people who want to have their voice heard in a peaceful protest. They are people who have shown time and time again that they are willing to intimidate witnesses and compromise juries. An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is often trying to deal with these groups with one hand tied behind its back, so we do need this kind of support in terms of the types of courts and the Offences against the State Act.  Equally, however, we cannot have a legislative vacuum and questions asked about which group is a peace-loving group and which group is a terrorist organisation. This annual event basically brings a sticking plaster in, with renewal under the emergency offences against the State legislation on an ongoing basis. I do support keeping security checks going while pointing out that the current cycle of these extensions is not a sustainable way to run a modern democracy. We need a credible alternative. The independent review group provided a roadmap. If that roadmap is flawed in some way, we can add to it but we need a draconian approach to those who pose a real danger. At the same time, however, we need a system that protects ordinary citizens and their civil liberties and the right to protest. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  Our local garda\u00ed are doing Trojan work and deserve the full backing of rural Ireland, including areas like west Cork. They are the backbone of community safety and they are out at all hours dealing with everything thrown at them, often with limited and stretched resources. They know their communities. That is their strength. That is how people keep safe, not just with legislation from Dublin.  Let us be honest about this motion. We are again being asked to roll over what are meant to be temporary emergency powers. Year after year it is the same thing. That is not good enough. Of course, there are real threats of organised crime, which is a serious issue, but supporting the Garda is not about giving the State a blank cheque. It is about giving garda\u00ed the resources, the numbers and the visibility they need on the ground. Strong community policing works. People seeing their local garda, knowing they are there - that is what makes a real difference. We will always stand up for our garda\u00ed and the work they do, but I cannot support the ongoing extension of laws like this without proper reform and accountability.  When I talk about garda\u00ed, I talk about the lack of garda appointments made to west Cork. I think it has been zero in the past number of years, or there have been very few if any new garda\u00ed into west Cork. That is a very unfair situation we find ourselves in because community policing is all about the number of garda\u00ed in the community. I am a big believer that garda\u00ed should live in the area in which they work, or as close as they can, because they get to know the people, they get to know who is right and who is wrong and they can nip crime in the bud. I have often said that. I see in my own area Garda Jonathan McCarthy in Ballydehob. He and his family live there and there is a very protective community there and care for the community. He is a Trojan garda. He knows when to be there and when not to be there, as such.  I see also the Garda Youth Awards. I praise garda\u00ed like Don Davis and Damian White and so many garda\u00ed out there who are really pushing the boundaries and are there for their community and for their people. It is great for young people too to see that and to get an award at the Garda Youth Awards. I refer to Garda Brigid Hartnett and all those who are involved in that initiative. It really sends a very different type of message from that which we hear sometimes hear throughout the country that maybe the long hand of the law is the right way to deal with young people. Sometimes it is to praise them, work with them and be supportive of them, and that is what we need to do.  There is definitely a lack of garda\u00ed in west Cork. I am worried about Drimoleague Garda station and places like that which have gone unmanned for months and months because there is a complete lack of garda\u00ed. The Garda cannot squeeze blood out of a turnip. When the appointments are made, no matter where it is, it must be done in a fair manner throughout the country. We cannot have one county like Dublin, which is a big county, with a lot of newly appointed garda\u00ed but west Cork left without. That is something we need to reverse. I have said that to the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, when he has been in here. That has to be looked at going forward if we are to make sure that people are living in a protected and safe area. A fair distribution of the new garda\u00ed when they are appointed should be spun out throughout Ireland, not just the capital. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  As we have no further speakers, I ask the Minister of State to make her response in eight minutes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Catherine Ardagh)  I am very grateful to the House for its consideration of these motions. I thank Deputies for their contributions, particularly those in support but also those who do not support the motion because their discourse is very important. Many issues have been raised. I know I have only eight minutes.  For the benefit of the House and for those watching, the independent review group carried out a comprehensive review of the law in this area and the majority and minority reports of the group were published in June 2023. The main recommendations of the majority report can be summarised as follows: repeal of the Offences against the State Act, with select elements reflective of current or potential threats being re-enacted in replacement legislation; establishing a new standing non-jury court to replace the Special Criminal Court to try serious criminal offences where the ordinary courts are inadequate; and consideration to be given to consolidation of all legislation dealing with terrorist offences.  A lot of Deputies raised the issue of the timeline of the implementation of the majority report.  I can say that my Department has engaged in consultation on the recommendations of the review group and it has examined the reports from a variety of perspectives, including policing, governance and legislation. It was after completing and considering this extensive consultation that the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, notified the Government that he accepts in principle the recommendations of the majority report. This sets a clear direction for reform. However, given the importance of the Acts over many decades, detailed proposals for reform must be thoroughly considered and approached with the utmost of case. These considerations, as we know, take time and the Minister intends to return to Government with detailed proposals in due course.  There is, as we know, significant legislative work under way to bolster our national security, with four Bills currently in the Houses. The Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Bill will address the foreign terrorist fighter phenomenon, which includes offences of travelling to commit a terrorist offence or organising or facilitating travel to commit a terrorist offence, and receiving training for terrorism. The Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na (Powers) Bill and the Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na (Recording Devices) (Amendment) Bill are before the Houses. The Criminal Law, Civil Law and Defence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill will confirm that legal authority of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to deploy radio frequency jammers for counter-unmanned aircraft systems purposes, where necessary to carry out its policing functions. I refer also to other civil security-related legislation. While work on proposals to replace the Offences Against the State Act is well under way, the threat from terrorism and organised crime very much remains. The renewal of these provisions is necessary today to combat this threat.  Many Members raised the issue of lack of information, asking why the ordinary courts are not sufficient. This was raised, in particular, by the Labour Party and Deputies Gibney and Gannon from the Social Democrats. Clearly the review group recommended on the basis of the best information available to it that there is, and will continue to be, an ongoing need for a non-jury court, as permitted by the Constitution, to try serious criminal offences in certain limited and exceptional circumstances where the ordinary courts are inadequate to secure the effective administration of justice and the preservation of public peace and order. It is up to the DPP in any individual case to direct that a trial take place before the Special Criminal Court. That decision is subject to careful consideration on the facts and circumstances of the case. I am conscious of the recommendation for more transparency around the court and the procedure in particular. In that regard, I note that the DPP has placed more information into to the public domain on how that decision-making process currently operates, for the purpose of transparency. The report laid also provides a brief assessment of the security situation. I should caution, however, that there are clear constraints on the detail of what is and can be reported, to ensure there is no longer a danger of prejudice to the investigation or prosecution of crime or the security of the State.  Deputy Paul Murphy raised issues in relation to fundamental human rights, as did Deputy Coppinger. Some argue that non-jury courts are contrary to fundamental rights of persons before the law and international principles of administration of justice. I respectfully disagree with that analysis. While jury trial is commonplace here, and is our very much preferred approach, it is not at all commonplace in the criminal justice systems of many other European states, for example, Sweden and Norway. The Special Criminal Court operates without a jury for sound reasons. Trials are heard there by three judges rather than one. The issuing of a reasoned judgment, which obviously would not be available in a jury trial, is one of the benefits of the Special Criminal Court and provides a basis for analysis and for parties to appeal a ruling should they wish to do so. While those judgments have always been available to the parties to the case, I welcome the plans of the Courts Service to facilitate their publication, should a judge so decide in a given case. The rules of evidence that apply in proceedings before the Special Criminal Court are the same as those applicable in trials in the Central Criminal Court. Anyone tried before the Special Criminal Court has a full range of procedural protections available to them, including appeals to the Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court.  Deputy Coppinger raised the issue of belief evidence. I want to clarify that belief evidence, which is permissible in trials for membership of an unlawful organisation by virtue of section 3(2) of the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1972, is not one of the provisions for renewal today. Rather, I am seeking the renewal of section 2 of the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act. That section provides that in proceedings concerned with the offence of membership of an unlawful organisation, it is permitted for inferences to be drawn by an accused's failure to answer any question material to the offence. It is important to note that inferences may be treated as corroboration of any evidence in relation to the offence, but a person cannot be convicted solely on the basis of inferences. The majority recommended that this provision be re-enacted in any legislation that replaces the Offences Against the State Acts, with the additional safeguard that provision be made in legislation to the effect that an inference drawn under this section should not be capable of providing the sole corroboration for belief evidence.  Many Members, including Deputy Carthy, raised the issue of our response to organised crime. The record budgetary resources of over \u20ac2.74 billion in budget 2025 allocated to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na have enabled the Garda Commissioner to assign extra resources to the specialist units involved in tackling organised crime. These include the Garda National Drugs and Organised Crime Bureau, the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation, the armed support unit and the Criminal Assets Bureau.  In relation to an explanation as to why we have this temporary legislation today, first, as we know, the Special Criminal Court is provided for in our Constitution. We have to remember that. Part V of the Offences Against the State Act 1939 provides for the establishment of the Special Criminal Court, and the legislation is clear that the Government was entitled to make a proclamation providing for the establishment of the court whenever it was necessary to do so. There is no provision in statute whereby such courts can only be of a limited duration, nor is there any sunset clause providing that the court only last any particular time. The Offences Against the State Acts are not emergency laws. They are complementary to our general criminal law and apply only in the most serious of cases.  In relation to a point raised by Deputy Paul Murphy on the minority report, while not endorsing the recommendation of the majority for a standing non-jury court, the minority report did accept that recourse to a non-jury court may be warranted in the interests of justice where there is a real and present danger of jury intimidation. Many Members, including Deputies Gannon, Gibney and Rice, raised the issues of the jury. I note the recommendations of the majority and also the minority in relation to examining the measures, short of non-jury trial, that can be taken to protect jurors. This is in both the reports.  In relation to Garda recruitment, the Government is committed to building stronger, safer communities and strengthening An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, and very much supporting An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na in that regard. The overall Garda workforce increased from 15,908 in 2016 to over 18,000 as of April.  Deputy Collins and others raised Garda resources. Over the previous few years, the focus has been on ramping up funding to provide the equipment, technology and facilities and fleet personnel for An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na so that it can keep our communities safe. The Government is committed to building stronger, safer communities.  At the heart of this debate, it is about protecting the public, supporting the rule of law and ensuring that those who seek to undermine our democracy and communities are met with a firm and effective response to the State. I commend the motions to the House. A Cheann Comhairle, could I get back to Deputy Carthy on Sallins? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  Go ahead. We are within time. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Catherine Ardagh  I know Deputy Carthy raised the issue of Sallins. The establishment of a public inquiry is something we can only proceed with in accordance with the legislation governing inquiries. The most important requirement is that the matter be of urgent public importance requiring investigation. In light of developments since 1976, the Minister is satisfied that it is not warranted. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  The Minister of State need not have bothered. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Amendment put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time on Wednesday, 24 June 2026. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Catherine Ardagh)  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann resolves that section 8 of the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009 (No. 32 of 2009) shall continue in operation for the period beginning on 30th June, 2026 and ending on 29th June, 2027. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time on Wednesday, 24 June 2026. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Offences against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 and Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2009: Motions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Dental and Orthodontic Services: Motion [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":36,"speakerCount":30},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dessie Ellis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy David Cullinane  I move:  That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:  notes that:  \u2014 there are more than 11,000 people, mainly children, on waiting lists for dental and orthodontic treatment with the Health Service Executive (HSE), including for braces and for dental surgery under general anaesthetic, and that more than 8,000 of them are waiting over a year for an appointment;  \u2014 half of primary school children are leaving school without ever having received a screening appointment, with average waiting times of four years for an appointment, and upwards of four and a half years in some areas such as Waterford City;  \u2014 access to dental care for medical card patients through the Dental Treatment Services Scheme (DTSS) has become severely limited, with less than half of dentists signed onto the scheme; and  further notes:  \u2014 the Joint Committee on Health report entitled \"Report on Dental Services in the Healthcare System\" published April 2026; and  \u2014 considers that the National Oral Health Policy Smile agus Sl\u00e1inte fails to prioritise the development of public dental services;  calls on the Government to:  \u2014 publish an action plan targeting an urgent reduction in years-long waiting lists for dental and orthodontic care so that children get the preventive and corrective treatment that they need, when they need it;  \u2014 invest in public dental services which will prioritise school screening and medical card holders, including the development of a public-only dentist contract;  \u2014 modernise the DTSS and integrate this with the GP Visit Card to widen access to preventative primary care services on the basis of need, and not the ability to pay;  \u2014 revise Smile agus Sl\u00e1inte to include the development of public dental services and publish a timebound implementation plan;  \u2014 establish a multi-disciplinary working group on the development of a public model of dental and oral health service provision;  \u2014 develop a strategic workforce plan for dentistry, including an increase in training places across all dental care professions;  \u2014 allow direct access to dental hygienists and dental nurses for appropriate care within their scope of practice without a referral from a dentist following the development of the necessary regulatory guidelines and oversight, and engage with professional societies on this;  \u2014 introduce a new Dental Act to update the out-dated legal framework of the 1985 Act, in line with the recommendations of the Dental Council of Ireland, which should also place new entitlements to access dental care services on a statutory footing; and  \u2014 improve the collection and publication of data on special care patients, which includes patients with intellectual disabilities, to ensure transparency and accountability for waiting lists in this area and ensure timely access to care under general anaesthetic for these patients who need it.  The public dental service in this State is absolutely shocking and clearly is not working. I have dealt with this now for a long number of years. I have tabled parliamentary questions. We have raised it in the Oireachtas Committee on Health.  We have had the Irish Dental Association in along with the HSE and the Department. I have written countless letters on behalf of constituents not just in Waterford but across the State whose children are waiting years on orthodontic and dental waiting lists for braces and treatment. Some of those children are in pain and yet are waiting so long for access to a dentist and an orthodontist. The HSE and the Department went as far as apologising to parents in letters, which I have received, and indeed at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health because they are simply not giving children the care they need. We have 11,000 children waiting for braces and tens of thousands of children waiting for access to an orthodontist. They are on an assessment list, they have not been assessed or they are waiting to see a dentist for all sorts of different reasons. The public system clearly is not working and is clearly failing patients.  To add insult to injury, despite a scheme the Government put in place, and which we should all value, encourage and support, to ensure children get proper screening in schools - the Government policy being that each primary school child would get two screenings over their journey in primary school - the majority of children are not getting those screenings. Some get one screening but very few, if any, get both. Again, it is a symptom of a system that is not working.  The public dental treatment service scheme has collapsed. Dentists have walked away from it because they do not think it is working. A number of dentists, including one from Deputy Doherty's constituency in Donegal, have contacted me to say that they get paid for extractions and can have an unlimited number of extractions under the current scheme but can only do two fillings. Yet in a lot of cases, fillings are actually the answer. If that is happening, that is, again, shocking. That scheme has collapsed for some time and only about 800 dentists out of about 2,200 private dentists are operating that scheme so, obviously, there is no confidence in it on the part of dentists.  An alternative needs to be put in place. I put forward alternative proposals and solutions to the Government on this time and again, including in a very substantial policy document I did in this area but also in similar debates in the D\u00e1il and elsewhere. We need to train more dentists. The reality is that a significant amount of international training takes place in our training colleges and dental schools. I have no problem with an element of that but when it gets to a point where more or as many international students come to be trained and we are not training as many domestic dentists as we need, who will actually stay here, work in the public system and treat patients, that is a problem. The first thing we have to do is to make sure we have enough dental training schools and enough training places and we clearly do not. We need to encourage more dentists and more orthodontists to come into the public system.  I have been dealing with parents for the past number of years and I have to say what they tell me when I deal with them is that their children are on waiting lists that are going nowhere. When one looks at the breakdown of how long children are waiting, one can see that there children who are deemed to be grade four or five - the most urgent cases - waiting five, six, seven and in some cases, eight years for treatment. How is that acceptable? How has that been allowed to happen? It is worse in some parts of the country. The Minister of State comes from the south east as do I. It is one of the worst performing areas. We have been raising this time and again with the Minister, the previous Minister, the HSE and the Department but every time we raise it, we are told there will be a new strategy and an updated plan and new measures will be put in place but it is not happening and it is not working. The facts speak for themselves. A total of 11,000 children are on waiting lists for braces of which 40% are waiting over two years; some of them are waiting as long as six, seven or even eight years; children in pain are waiting for treatment; and children with disabilities, who also have additional needs for dentistry, are often waiting. We have dealt with those issues on the floor of the D\u00e1il. The screening system has collapsed and is not working, which is not good for children.  The public system for medical card patients has not been working for some time. I have to be honest. I do not know if it is ideological coming from this Government but there is no will on the part of the Government to fix it. It has been a problem for years and public patients and medical card holders are simply told to \"Go whistle somewhere, do what you like, go private, we cannot do anything for you\". That is all I hear from the Government on this and it is not good enough. All of those problems need to be fixed, which is why we put forward not just this motion but the alternatives involving more training places, hiring more public orthodontists and dentists and fixing the problems with the dental treatment service scheme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pearse Doherty  I commend Deputy Cullinane on his work and advocacy on this and the proposals he has brought forward in this Private Members' motion. There is no doubt that dental care is no longer simply under pressure. It is in crisis. That is clear for everybody to see. Across the State, there are 11,000 people - mainly children - waiting on dental and orthodontic treatment while thousands of others are waiting far too long for routine dental care. That is why we are calling for urgent action. In counties like my own county of Donegal, the issue has been felt. It is really serious there. There 420 people in the north west - mainly children - on the HSE waiting list for dental and orthodontic treatment. This for braces, dental surgery and other types of interventions. Nearly one quarter of these people are waiting for over a year. That is disgraceful. The number of dentists participating in the dental treatment services scheme in Donegal and elsewhere has fallen in recent years.  Over recent weeks, I have been contacted by dentists in the Irish Dental Association who outlined the growing crisis facing patients in Donegal. They have told me that there is a significant and ongoing withdrawal of dentists from the medical card scheme. Everybody living in the county can tell you that. Long-established clinics are no longer accepting new medical card patients while others have withdrawn from the scheme altogether or have had to reduce the services they provide and there has been no response from Government. In rural counties like Donegal, this means that people are travelling significant distances simply to access basic dental care and some cannot get an appointment at all. One dentist in Donegal even told me that the system is designed to force dentists to go private. He also explained that on many occasions, dentists like him are being asked to extract teeth for free in emergencies and are constantly under pressure to provide fillings for free because people cannot get free care.  All of this exposes a system that is simply no longer working and it is having a real impact on older people, families with younger children and those living in isolated rural communities. Access to care increasingly depends not just on need but on where people live and whether they can afford to pay privately. The Government should be listening to those on the front line. Instead of allowing the system to continue to collapse and deteriorate, it needs to work with the profession to restore access and ensure that nobody is left without essential care. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pa Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Pa-Daly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Pa Daly  When one hears about the waste of Government money and about the people all around the State, but particularly the people to whom I listen in Kerry, who cannot access dental services, it makes one even angrier. Over the past couple of weeks, I have been speaking to people about this. One person told me her 19-year-old son has never been seen, another person said their children aged eight and 15 had never been seen while another told me of three children aged 17, 13 and ten who were never called. They speak of a chaotic dental service that is going backwards and that has been neglected and underfunded with no vision. Another person to whom I spoke said, and this is a common theme, their child had never been seen all the way through primary school and they were forced to pay thousands of euro for proper dental treatment.  We put down a parliamentary question on it and discovered the number of people in Kerry who are waiting because the medical card system has completely collapsed. In the Killarney and east Kerry area, 600 second class children are waiting to be seen. In Tralee in west Kerry, 912 are waiting to be seen. In sixth class, 466 in the Killarney area and 788 in the Tralee area are waiting to be seen and that is not to mention people in other parts of the county. While the Government is wasting money on one hand, there are children who are literally in agony waiting for dental services.  Across the State, we can see that there are 11,000 people on waiting lists. Half of children leave school without ever having received an appointment. In Kerry, the figure is way more than that because there is practically no chance of getting seen by a dentist if you have a medical card. Private dentists will tell you that it is not worth their while and that they actually lose money if they participate in the medical card scheme. This has been going on for years but the Government is sitting on its hands and is doing nothing about it. We need proper investment in public dental services, proper school screening, proper medical card services and a workforce plan for dentistry to get more people into the public service just to meet the needs of children who are going through the system and are not being seen. We also need direct access to hygienists and dental nurses to stop the agony of children across the county. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Matt Carthy  Sinn F\u00e9in has brought forward this motion because the Government simply refused to understand that dental care is an essential part of healthcare. Across the State, particularly in counties like Cavan and Monaghan, families are being failed by a dental service that is stretched beyond capacity. State-wide, as colleagues have outlined, thousands of people, mostly children, are waiting for dental or orthodontic treatment, with a significant proportion waiting well over a year. Many children are leaving primary school without ever receiving the dental screening to which they are entitled.  All of these numbers represent real children and families. In my constituency, parents contact me in utter desperation and frustration because their children are waiting years for orthodontic treatment. People feel they must contact local politicians because their child needs braces or other healthcare. This is the scenario that Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael have allowed to develop. Many people stretch themselves to access private treatment. A whole cohort of others just cannot afford that option and feel they are letting down their children. In fact, it is the Government that is letting them down. There are staffing issues in Monaghan, with vacancies in the local dental service for dental hygienists, general surgeons and dental nurses. All of those vacancies have been in place for a prolonged period. Then there is the situation at Dundalk hospital for the children who are referred there. We might as well tell them they will not receive the orthopaedic care they need.  This cannot stand. We need urgent action to reduce orthodontic and dental waiting lists. We need investment in public dental services, a dedicated public-only dental contract and workforce planning. We must ensure dental places in our universities are being utilised by those we can encourage to work in the domestic system, rather than being sold to international students to make up for the shortfall in Government funding for the third level sector. We need a dental treatment service that actually works for the people it is supposed to serve. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Darren O'Rourke  I thank Deputy Cullinane for bringing forward this important motion. We need action on this issue. A number of parents in my constituency of Meath East have written to me. I was told about a 12-year-old in Dunshaughlin who has never been called to the HSE dentist. One wrote: \"My daughter is 11 and has not been called for any HSE dental services at all.\" A parent wrote about a son, who is 12 this year, who has never been called. Another parent wrote:  My son is 12, nearly 13, just about to finish in primary school and has never been called to be seen by a HSE dentist. Obviously, I have gone private and paid myself but it is a totally different experience to my daughter, who is 12 years older and got all her checks through the HSE. I called about four years ago to see why he still hasn't been called and they said that due to Covid, everything was delayed. It's an absolute joke.  A parent wrote to me: \"My daughter is 13 and has never been called to see a HSE dentist and is starting secondary school in September.\" Another parent told me of a daughter who is 15 and had her first HSE check-up eight weeks ago. That is the pattern not just across my constituency but across the State.  The figures provided by Deputy Cullinane comparing waiting lists in quarter 1 of 2026 with quarter 1 of 2021 are absolutely stark. The number of orthodontic patients at grade 5 waiting more than 48 months, or four years, significantly increased between 2021 and this year from 180 to 250. We can only imagine the pain those children are suffering. The overall numbers waiting have more than doubled from 734 to 1,565. These are the most severe cases representing those most in need. The waiting lists are absolutely obscene. Will the Minister of State please do something about them? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh  I acknowledge the hard work done by my colleague Deputy Cullinane in this area. He has presented all the proposals and solutions to fix what is happening in dental services. Dental care is a critical part of the health and well-being of any human being but it is not treated as such by the Government, which has failed to address the critical shortage in this area of healthcare provision. Between 2019 and 2025, the number of dentists in Mayo providing care under the dental treatment services scheme fell from just 31 to 22. How can there be dentists available when the Government fails to invest in public services? All of those dental practices are full to capacity. The evidence is clear that we must introduce a public-only dentist contract in order to reduce waiting lists, ensure children have timely access to preventative and corrective care and prioritise school screening and medical card holders. Patients should have direct access to hygienists and dental nurses within their scope of practice to reduce the waiting lists.  A mother from Mayo contacted me about her seven-year-old son who had to attend a private dentist because he could not access public treatment. She was told he would need to be referred to Dublin because he needed two surgeries. Those surgeries would normally be done in Galway but the service was full to capacity. The treatment, she was told, would cost \u20ac4,000. That is completely unaffordable for the vast majority of parents. Another child is 12 years old and has never been seen by a dentist through school. One mother told me her child has been waiting three years for braces. Another mum described the ordeal of her autistic deaf son who needed urgent dental care. He had to be hospitalised before being sent to Oranmore Dental Care, then to the Hermitage Clinic and then to Dundrum. The whole experience was very traumatising for the child and it ended up costing \u20ac6,000. That is just nuts.  We need an action plan to improve dental care delivery and drastically reduce the waiting lists. We need a strategic workforce plan to address the skills shortages. The solutions are set out in the motion and the Minister needs to implement them. I am aware of an elderly woman for whom a dentist could not be found anywhere to provide the critical care she needed. The horrific cases that are coming forward must be dealt with. I am really tired of bringing up this subject and nothing being done. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Joanna Byrne  Week in and out, my constituency office is inundated with people trying to access dental and orthodontic services. The population in Drogheda and south Louth is growing faster now than it ever has before but vital services are not by any stretch keeping up with the population growth. In fact, they are getting worse under the Minister's watch. The number of dentists working under the dental treatment services scheme in Louth dropped between 2019 and 2025. There is huge population growth but the level of service provision is declining.  The number of children waiting for dental treatment under the primary school dental checks scheme can only be described as scandalous. One parent told me her daughter has been on the list for braces since fifth class. She is 20 now and has never received the public care she needed. That is a nine-year wait and it beggars belief. Half of primary school children are leaving school without ever having received a screening appointment. Consultant orthodontic vacancies have been unfilled since 2024 in Louth. The total number on school dental screening waiting lists in the county continues to increase year on year. A total of 2,800 children were waiting to be seen and 718 were waiting for orthodontic treatment at the end of 2025.  Although this is detrimental to the children in question, it is not just children who are affected. Miriam, a widow in her late 70s with a full medical card, needed to have her dentures replaced as they were too large for her mouth. She was in pain and could not eat properly. Facing exorbitant waiting times, she had to borrow money to the tune of thousands of euro to get the care she needed. Another constituent needed extensive dental work as a direct consequence of domestic violence. She was told that advanced restorative treatment is not provided to medical card holders and that no assistance is available to help meet the costs of private care.  Parliamentary question responses provided to me in recent months have stated that the capacity of the service is based on available resources. There are limitations to clinical capacity, we are told. Data shows ongoing service pressures, reduced staff levels and declining levels of oral health assessments. This is not news to anyone trying to access services or to those providing services. It surely cannot be news to the Government. This has not happened by accident. Rather, it is a direct result of underinvestment, failure to plan and a hands-off approach by successive Ministers. The Government's inaction on dental services leaves those languishing on waiting lists either in pain or in significant debt. Either way, they have been completely failed. The cost of the Minister's neglect of this issue will be felt for decades. Action is long overdue on the dental care crisis in this country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor)  I thank the Members for this very important motion and for giving me the opportunity to discuss dentistry services and to provide an update on the developments in the sector and the oral health action plan. The Government allocates over \u20ac240 million to the provision of public oral healthcare services every year across the Department of Health and the Department of Social Protection. This ongoing investment shows our commitment to delivering services, progressing reforms and addressing the challenges we know exist in dentistry services. We fully acknowledge that more needs to be done. The Minister for Health wants to do much more to improve oral healthcare services and to address access issues. The Minister welcomed the Joint Committee on Health\u2019s recent report on dental services and understands the frustration families and individuals are experiencing with the current services. In my own clinics I see this daily. The current position on public dental services is not good enough. Too many people cannot get timely care. We have to do two things, namely, take practical steps now to improve access and deliver lasting reform in the long term. The model of services we operate is largely from the 1990s, and it must be modernised. While that reform is progressing, we are determined to ease the pressure people are facing now. In practical terms, that means improving access through the public system, especially for children and adult medical card holders. The Department and the HSE are currently finalising a two-year action plan - and this is where a lot of work has been done - that aims to deliver meaningful impact in the short term while also making progress on the structural reforms outlined in the national oral health policy.  The salaried HSE oral healthcare service provides dental care to several groups of patients. In the January to April period this year, it provided care to over 56,000 adults and children. This includes over 16,000 emergency appointments to eligible patients, on a same-day or next-day basis. Those with additional needs who cannot receive care in a general dental practice may need special care services provided by the HSE. The HSE provides these patients with an oral health examination and where necessary, their treatment is provided using additional supports. This service provides care to many children and adults who would not otherwise have access to oral healthcare services.  Regarding access to public oral healthcare services for children, there are access issues in respect of the current model of service provided by the HSE. This service aims to offer the first of three appointments to children while they are in second class, or seven years old. Due to capacity challenges, the HSE needed to prioritise patient groups, to ensure emergency care remains available for all eligible HSE patients. Within the three childhood appointments, the sixth-class appointment is prioritised by the HSE. This is to ensure that children receive preventative treatment on their permanent molars and, for those children who require it, a referral for an orthodontics assessment. Some \u20ac4 million in additional funding has been provided to support the HSE to complete recruitment of 15 additional whole-time equivalents across dentists and dental nurses. The public oral healthcare services provided by the State includes orthodontic treatment. I know the Deputy spoke about how many are on the waiting list. The HSE provides orthodontic treatment to those who have the greatest level of clinical need and have been assessed and referred for treatment before their 16th birthday.  It is positive to note that 5,500 grade 4 patients have been removed from orthodontic waiting lists since the introduction of the waiting list action plan in 2020. This includes 392 patients so far in 2026. A further \u20ac2.85 million has been invested this year to support continued measures to reduce orthodontics waiting lists. However, despite additional capacity provided via private contractors under the waiting list action plan, waiting lists remain high due to staffing and recruitment challenges. I know Deputies are aware of this. The action plan seeks to address this and improve the current orthodontic waiting lists.  I am aware there are challenges in the provision of dental services under general anaesthetic. I know this is not acceptable for those who are on these waiting lists. This is why the action plan will consider initiatives such as using the emerging availability of capacity that the new surgical hubs will enable. This will help reduce the current waiting times for general anaesthetic access for both children and adults. An important part of this work will be to improve the collection and availability of data, in particular for our special care patients, which includes those with intellectual disabilities. We want to ensure timely access to care under general anaesthetic for those who most need it.  I want to turn to the dental treatment services scheme, DTSS. Last year the State provided care to over 300,000 medical card holders over the age of 16 under the scheme. In order to address contractor concerns regarding the DTSS, a range of measures came into effect in May 2022 to introduce and reintroduce elements of preventative care. The Minister for Health also increased the fees paid to dentists for most treatment items by from 40% to 60%. These measures are having an impact, with access to care continuing to increase each year since they were introduced.  In 2025, over 241,000 additional treatments were provided under the DTSS, with an extra 50,000 patients treated, when compared with 2022. Activity has continued to increase further into this year. Initial data from the first half of this year indicates that more than 4,000 additional patients have been treated, compared with the same period in 2025. These are important signs of progress and improved access, however, we have much more to do and I do understand the frustration. Reform of the DTSS is one of the actions in the action plan that my Department and the Minister have committed to. We look forward to working with relevant stakeholders in progressing this reform. A key enabler of successful reform and improvement of oral health services is ensuring that we have enough appropriately-trained oral healthcare professionals. In particular, we need to maximise the contribution of our hygienists, dental nurses and other oral healthcare professionals to provide the modernised, prevention-focused care we are developing. This requires changes to our educational and legislative frameworks which is acknowledged in the oral health action plan. We also need to consider educational models which enable students to experience providing care in a community setting, within our most vulnerable communities, equipping them with the experience and confidence needed to serve the entire population following graduation.  I am delighted to note that we currently have more dentists on the Dental Council of Ireland's register than ever before, with 3,962 as of June 2026. There has been a steady increase in the number of registered dentists. In 2019, there were 3,100 and therefore we have seen an increase of over 28% since the national oral health policy was published. There is also a need to increase the number of dental hygienists and other oral healthcare professionals. The Department of Health has commenced work on a draft strategic workforce plan for dentistry and oral health. This plan recognises and highlights the challenges in terms of data gaps in the dentistry sector. To address the gaps in data, the Department has designed an oral healthcare workforce census framework. The workforce census is intended to gather information, including the proportion of registered oral healthcare professionals who are practising in their registered profession, the services they provide, and the skills they have. The roll-out of the workforce census is expected to be a key action in the new dental action plan. The census data will provide information to support the development of the sector and to support workforce planning.  The Government is committed to ensuring our healthcare services are supported by a steady and sustainable pipeline of highly skilled graduates and one of the programme for Government commitments is to increase the number of healthcare college places, including for dentistry. We have achieved a lot in this area through collaboration with the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science and the Higher Education Authority, HEA. This work has led to the commencement of a new bachelor of dentistry degree programme in the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, RCSI, in September 2025. The RCSI model trains dental students in a community-based model of dental education. The RCSI has taken in 21 Irish and EU students in 2025 and has secured an agreement with the HEA to expand its intake of Irish and EU students to 35 places by 2027. This will significantly increase the number of dental training places available and will enhance the workforce capacity.  We know that more must be done in this area which is why we have engaged with Cork University Dental School and Hospital at University College Cork, UCC, and the Dublin Dental University Hospital at Trinity College Dublin regarding the expansion of dentistry training places. These engagements are ongoing, with a view to developing potential options to facilitate further expansions.  In terms of improving access to services and supporting reform, the Department of Health is progressing policy to introduce direct access for dental hygienists in Ireland.  This will allow dental hygienists to provide appropriate elements. I am sorry I did not have time to finish this statement. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  You will be back in. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor  I do understand the challenges that are there. I see them daily. With our new action plan, going forward, we want to make those changes. We are not opposing the motion. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louise O'Reilly  I commend my colleague, an Teachta David Cullinane, for bringing forward this motion, for his work on this issue and for the well-crafted solutions he has brought to the floor of the D\u00e1il.  I strongly encourage the Minister of State to engage with the solutions and proposals brought here this evening by Sinn F\u00e9in because it is very clear that what the Government is doing is not working. There are over 1,500 kids in north Dublin on waiting lists for orthodontic treatment having been assessed as grade 5. Grade 5 means they are already in pain. They have had the assessment and they need the treatment but they cannot get it. It is not hard to see what is needed. The Minister of State did not need ten minutes to tell us what is needed. We know what is needed. We need investment in our kids' dental health. The Government needs to treat it like healthcare because that is what it is.  I do not know if the waiting lists I deal with in my constituency office day in, day out result from indifference, incompetence or both but the parents who contact me day in, day out are at the end of their rope. Of course, because this is Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael, the private sector has moved right into this space. We now see that people can go to a private provider that did not provide dental care for kids previously but does so now. There is a price list on their website. It costs \u20ac77 for a filling and \u20ac40 for an assessment. That is \u20ac120. If parents do not have it, and plenty of them do not, does the Minister of State know what they can do? Buy now and pay later. That is getting important healthcare for children on the drip, on the never-never, on the buy now, pay later. They are getting themselves into debt. The private provider has brochures and leaflets it hands out. The incompetence of this Government has opened up that space for it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe  Access to timely, effective and affordable dental care is one of the most important guarantees of a good quality of life. Persistent pain from an abscess or tooth decay is one of the most unpleasant and debilitating things a child or adult can go through. A modern healthcare system should make it a top priority. Instead, the Government parties have long abandoned affordable dental services. It is almost entirely privatised now, as my colleague has said, with the number of dentists directly employed by the HSE dwindling every year.  This means more than half of children do not get a dental screening in primary school. This is just a basic check-up and we cannot even provide that. This Government does not even know how many dentists are practising in Ireland or how many dental clinics there are. It is completely detached from a vital aspect of healthcare provision in Ireland. The national oral health policy was published in 2019. We still do not have an implementation plan for that policy.  Access to dental care for people with a medical card has collapsed, as other speakers have said. More than half the dentists have withdrawn from the medical card scheme, leaving thousands of patients without the care that they need and are entitled to.  Successive Ministers for Health promised that a breakthrough to fix the scheme was imminent, but it is ordinary people in need of urgent care who are suffering. We must invest in a public dental scheme that will prioritise school screening and medical card holders, including the development of a public-only dentist contract. We must modernise the medical card scheme to guarantee access to care on the basis of need and not on the ability to pay. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Sorca Clarke  The Minister of State mentioned access issues nine individual times in her opening address. I am going to tell her what these so-called access issues really involve. A mother told me she had spent three weeks trying to contact the school-age dental team and when she finally got through this morning she was told nothing could be done, not even in an emergency, until that child's school was called, despite the case being referred to as \"urgent\" by a private dentist. The mother of a young girl with autism spectrum disorder, hypoplastic teeth and a severe 8.5 mm overjet was provided with documentation indicating that the girl would qualify under national criteria while simultaneously being told that she did not qualify under the modified regional criteria. Parents should not have to navigate contradictory and inconsistent rules to get dental care for their child.  The last aspect I will bring to the Minister of State's attention are medical card patients. They are really struggling. A constituent told me she had no option but to have a tooth extracted because she simply did not have the cash to stretch as far as a filling. They are what the Minister of State is calling \"access issues\". They are not access issues. That is an abject failure of this scheme.  The Minister of State cannot continue to ignore a shortage of dentists while failing to adequately address workforce planning. Sinn F\u00e9in has consistently called for more training places, a workforce strategy that retains graduates here and investment directly into our public dental service, rather than continuing to rely on crisis management.  It is an absolute shame that this Government stands over a system where half of primary school children leave school without ever having received a screening appointment. At the health committee we heard of children who, when they were finally called for that screening programme, drove themselves to their dental appointment. Where is that in the Government's two-year action plan? Is that going to be covered by the initiatives the Government will consider in surgical hubs that do not yet exist? That is why change is needed and needed now. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan  I commend my colleague, Deputy Cullinane, for his work on this motion. The numbers speak for themselves. Over 11,000 people, the vast majority of them children, are left suffering on dental treatment waiting lists across the country. The State is failing them, plain and simple, yet what do we see from Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael? The same attempt to normalise these shocking delays, just as they have done with the disastrous waiting list for the children seeking an assessment of need. These waiting lists are not just numbers; they are children left suffering. I have spoken to so many parents drowning in stress, feeling that their only option is to go private at crippling personal cost just to get adequate care for their child. All the while, those in the private sector continue to line their pockets off the back of the Government's incompetency.  This Government needs to accept a hard truth: the current system is outdated, chronically under-resourced and simply not fit for purpose. A child should be able to see a dentist when they need one, rather than having to wait until six years down the line. A family that contacted my office were told their child would be waiting six agonising years for dental treatment. With a bit of help, they finally got a notice in March to say he was on the priority list but just last week they were told the funding had run out. His booking was cancelled. They were told the patients on the list from January and half of those from February would be seen. How the money can run out that early in the year is beyond me. This family are absolutely devastated. God knows how long he is going to be on the list. This child does not smile anymore. This is not just about his physical health; this is about children's mental health also. A child should be able to smile. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Cathy Bennett  The Government has utterly failed in terms of dental services. It has especially failed every child, with more than 11,000 children waiting years to get braces and half of all children not getting their scheduled dental check-ups through the school dental scheme. The Government is especially failing children in my county of Monaghan, where, as of October last year, not a single child in the 2024-25 cohort had received their dental checkup. Not a single child out of 832. How do Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael account for this failure? When I submit questions to the Minister for Health, the excuse provided is that it is down to staff vacancies arising from maternity leave and retirement. If the Minister and senior HSE management are unable to implement adequate workforce planning to account for women having children or people retiring, that calls into question basic competencies.  Equally, at one point last year when I asked the Minister about access to orthodontic treatment for people from Monaghan, she told me that service was under-resourced, with three vacant orthodontic posts.  This is utterly unacceptable and I commend the Sinn F\u00e9in spokesperson on health, Deputy David Cullinane, on bring forward these very detailed proposals, which outline the solutions that seem to be needed for this ever-worsening crisis. I appeal to all Members of this House to endorse this plan because this is what the children of our nation deserve - not excuses that they will not receive the healthcare that is their right simply because a dentist has retired or is off having a baby. We need a workforce plan and complete reform of our access to dental care. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice  I welcome this debate and thank Sinn F\u00e9in for putting forward the motion. It is a really welcome debate and it follows on from the work done by the joint Oireachtas committee and the report we published on this matter.  I sometimes wonder if I live in a different country when I hear some speeches from Ministers talking about the money they have invested and that their ongoing investment shows their commitment to delivering services, progressing reforms and addressing challenges. From what we have heard tonight, none of that is happening. The Government is not showing commitment to services, progressing reforms and addressing challenges. The evidence sadly speaks for itself and it is not the rosy picture that is presented by the Minister of State, unfortunately.  There is a long history here of dysfunction when it comes to oral health policy in the State. Successive Governments have utterly neglected public dental services. The first clear statement of the State's aims and objectives for dental services was first published in 1994. That was called the dental health action plan. That plan led to the development of the dental treatment service scheme for medical card holders but it would take a quarter of a century for another dental policy to be published. In 2007, the then Minister for Health, the former Deputy Mary Harney, announced the development of a new oral health policy and although a draft plan was presented to the Minister in 2009, it was never published.  In the years between 2001 and 2017, aside from one mention of community water fluoridation, oral health did not feature in any of the national healthcare policy documents. That only changed with the publication of Sl\u00e1intecare. Then, in 2019, a new oral health policy was finally published, Smile agus Sl\u00e1inte, 25 years after Ireland's first and only dental policy plan had been published. What we see over the period and the history of the State is neglect of this area and a failure to plan and put policies in place. Even sometimes when policies are formed, there is a failure to implement, prioritise, publish and resource them. It is not just the current Government that is failing on this; there is a track record of failure from successive Governments that have led us to the state we are in today.  On Smile agus Sl\u00e1inte, in 2019 the oral health policy did not set out a roadmap for the practical delivery of its vision. It was developed without proper consultation with dentists and allied healthcare professionals. In 2024, the former president of the Irish Dental Association, IDA, Dr. Eamon Croke, said that the 2019 policy \"was launched from behind a veil of secrecy\". While Dr. Croke said that the IDA may share and support many of the 2019 plans and their aspirations, the Department of Health had yet to articulate how its vision would be enacted, a situation that prevails to this day.  In January of this year, the Department of Health told the health committee that a three-year implementation plan to progress phase 1 of the 2019 plan was in development. This is now seven years after the plan was put in place that we were still waiting for the implementation plan. The implementation has been described as imminent since 2024. We are led to believe that this implementation plan will finally be published this year. However, in January, the Minister said it was at an advanced stage, while in April, she said her goal was to publish it in the coming weeks. It is now the end of June and we still do not have that implementation plan for a policy that was published seven years ago - back in 2019. If that does not tell you how much of a priority this issue is for the Government, I do not know what will. In the Minister of State's speech this evening, she said it is currently being finalised. I would ask the Minister of State, in her closing address, to give us a solid timeline. We have been told for many months that it was coming to the end. We would like to know exactly when the Minister intends to publish that. We have been waiting, as I said, since 2019 for this. I do not think it is unreasonable to give the D\u00e1il a final date on when that implementation plan will be published.  On the Oireachtas health committee's report, which was published previously, this followed engagement with stakeholders. The health committee published its report on dental services back in April. This report included 19 recommendations, with the first three all relating to implementation of that 2019 plan. We found there had been no noticeable improvement in dental services since 2019. There was no noticeable improvement over a seven-year period. There had been no progress, according to the report produced across the parties, including Government members of the joint committee.  In fact, the situation has gotten worse and not better. Children are leaving primary school without being screened. The medical card scheme is haemorrhaging dentists. The laws governing dentistry are over 40 years old and they are putting the public at risk. The Dental Council of Ireland has been calling for a new Act and additional powers since 2008. It urgently needs powers to investigate, enter and inspect dental practices. Here are just some examples of instances in which it has not got the powers to act. There was an unregistered person convicted of sexual assault practicing as a dentist. There was an unregistered dentist offered dental treatments, including X-rays, from the sitting room of an apartment in central Dublin. Three unregistered dentists were operating pop-up clinics in Munster and Connacht. These are the kinds of patient safety issues we have here - people convicted of sexual assault practicing of dentists; clinics in apartments across the State; and unregistered dentists. We need regulatory reform that is supported by both the regulator and the regulated.  In regard to children's dental services, children should be screened three times before leaving primary school but some children are not being seen until transition year. If that is not a failing on behalf of the State, I do not know what is. This is because of understaffing and under-resourcing of the school screening programme. Check-up targets have been missed on a massive scale. In 2023, only half of the eligible population of children were screened. Half of the children who were entitled to this completely missed the screening. This is really important screening to check on children and it just being missed. They are being completely failed and neglected and it is utterly unacceptable.  We urgently need the strategic workforce plan, as recommended by the health committee. We need to know what the capacity requirements of a school screening programme are if it is to deliver a service that actually works for people. At present, the Department simply does not know how many public dentists are needed. All we know is that we do not have enough, and that the number of public dentists delivering the dental scheme has dropped by 30 since 2012. We are seeing a fall in the number. Despite what the Minister of State may talk about, investment in services and the number of dentists working in the public dental scheme is dropping. We need to make public dentistry an attractive option for dentists. That includes the development of new and attractive public dental contracts to support the public model. Outsourcing children's dental services to the private market is not the answer. Scaling up the public service is. That should be a priority and it should be a matter of real concern to the Minister of State that we have children in the State who are entitled to these screenings who are missing them. It being half of the eligible population, it is really utterly unacceptable.  The concerns we have do not just extend to children; they also extend to adults on the medical card and medical card patients. Under the medical card scheme, private dentists are contracted by the HSE to provide services to medical card patients but this scheme is haemorrhaging dentists and medical card patients are paying the price. In 2015, there were around 1,600 dentists participating in the scheme but, by last year, that had halved to 800. The scheme is no longer fit for purpose and the health committee, in our report, called on the Minister to enter immediate talks with the Irish Dental Association to replace it with a new scheme, one that allows dentists to provide medical card patients with the best care and not just emergency care. It is unacceptable in the current scheme that the number of fillings per year is limited but the number of extractions is not. As a result, people are having teeth removed when they could have had fillings and prevention. This is not the proactive, preventative type of care that should be provided in our public dental scheme. This scheme is a relic of the 1990s. It is no longer fit for purpose. We need modernisation and mere modification will not be enough. The scheme must be completely modernised.  In the health committee's dental report, we also called for the development of a strategic workforce plan not just for dentists but for allied dental healthcare professionals. We also recommended that the roles of those dental health professionals should be expanded, allowing direct access without the need for referral. In the context of the national oral health policy's aims to move from an outdated curative care model to a prevention first model, direct access from dental hygienists is particularly important. The Minister of State has already said that work is under way to develop a policy paper on direct access for dental hygienists. This needs to be accelerated. Unnecessary barriers to direct access must be removed. Allowing direct access for dental hygienists will increase capacity, enable earlier interventions, reduce waiting times and allow dentists to focus on more complex and high-need care.  This is already in place in the UK. A 2023 UK General Dental Council evaluation paper found no evidence of patient safety concerns associated with direct access to dental hygienists and therapist practices when their defined scope and appropriate referral pathways are in place. I met with the Irish Dental Hygienists Association earlier this year and it did excellent work in putting forward a case for direct access. Patients should have the option of accessing care from dental hygienists without needing to see a dentist first. Advancing this practical and evidence-based reform should not be put on the long finger any longer. It is a key reform and it will help dentists, patients and the public at large.  The Government is not doing enough here. It is not investing enough. The issue is not being prioritised. The reforms to the dental Act that are needed have not been progressed. I say this all the time when we have statements the House; we could be progressing reforms to legislation, including the dental Act. I have real concerns about the school screening programme and the number of children who are being absolutely failed, are not getting the appointments they need and are being completely neglected. We heard at the health committee that in some cases, people are driving themselves to their first screening when they should have been screened in primary school. It is not good enough. It is utterly unacceptable. I urge the Minister of State and the Minister to get a grasp on this issue.  For our part, the health committee has set out a series of recommendations. We have laid out clearly exactly what needs to be done step by step. I urge the Minister of State to engage with that report and the recommendations and progress the reforms needed because people deserve access to good quality public dental care. The least people should get in this Republic is access to good quality healthcare, particularly children, medical card holders and others who have been failed and failed by successive governments. The time for reform is now. I urge the Minister of State to listen to what we are saying and prioritise this issue because together, by working with the health committee and the recommendations we put forward, we can make real progress on this issue. However, it needs to become more of a priority for the Minister of State, her Department, her officials and the Minister. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Ceann Comhairle  I call Deputy Marie Sherlock, who is sharing with Deputy Kenny. Deputy Sherlock has ten minutes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marie Sherlock  I very much welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion and I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for introducing it this evening. The Labour Party will very much be supporting this motion. The Government has effectively watched our public community dental services collapse over the last decade. It is very clear that oral healthcare is very much the poor relation of the health service. It is almost a year to the day since we had a debate in this Chamber last year, with a motion then sponsored by Deputy Stanley. It is clear that almost little or nothing has happened since then. We are seven years on since the smile agus sl\u00e1inte national strategy on dental care was published, yet we have seen a deterioration and disregard for public dental services in this country.  One of the critical things we know about dental care is that prevention is as important as treatment. We know the one organisation that was set up 40 years ago to promote oral health awareness, the Dental Health Foundation, lost a massive chunk of its funding a number of years ago. We have to ask serious questions about the seriousness and intent of the Department of Health with regard to oral healthcare in this country. We know that so many people out there are now having to go abroad for cosmetic dental surgeries to make up for years of neglect by the public dental system. The size of your wallet should not determine your health, yet, in oral healthcare in particular, it absolutely is the case. People are no longer just afraid of the dentist's chair. They are terrified of the cost of visiting the dentist. We know that children in particular are not getting the dental care they need.  Along with anybody else who was contributing to the debate last year, we looked at the drop in the number of public dentists and those participating in the dental treatment scheme. It is devastating to see and was reflected in the cross-party report that Deputy Rice spoke about. It was from the Oireachtas health committee and was published a number of months ago. It very clearly set out what needs to happen. We have seen little or no response from the Department of Health since then. Earlier this year, the Irish Dental Association told our committee that more than half of dentists had withdrawn from the medical card scheme, leaving thousands of patients without the free care they are entitled to. If that were to happen within GP care, there would be absolute uproar and alarm - rightly so. Yet, we are not seeing that same level of attention or care for our public health service.  The reality is that as of April this year, there are just 232 whole-time equivalent dentists across the public health service. In 2009, there were 330. It is scandalous that we have seen such a decline. I know from talking to public dentists on the ground there are enormous challenges with regard to trying to get additional dentists recruited into the system. Business cases sit there for months on end. That is absolutely unacceptable if we are to take public dental care seriously. The reality is that those on medical cards and those who struggle to afford to see a dentist are the ones who are most disadvantaged by this. They are the ones suffering from real inequality. People are genuinely delayed for months, just to save the money needed to get basic treatment.  With regard to children, the number of children participating in targeted programmes and scheduled appointments within community dental services has significantly dropped. We know that across all CHO areas, the number of children in first and second class, or fifth and sixth class and other targeted groups, attending scheduled appointments has dropped dramatically over the past five years. Tens of thousands of children are leaving primary school without any basic checks. Last year, I relayed a story in this Chamber of a public dentist telling me that she had patients, who were no longer children because they were driving a car, driving themselves to an appointment they were supposed to get in sixth class but they were in fifth or sixth year by the time that appointment came through. That is absolutely unacceptable and the costs we are storing up for our health service further down the line because of those delays to care is frankly outrageous. We know there was a 30% drop in the number of children attending these scheduled assessments between 2019 and 2024. The reality is there is a bit of a ticking time bomb here. If we do not put the money in early to the preventative aspect of our dental healthcare system, we will end up with a health system that has much greater costs further down the line. Surely, the ambition and aim of all of us here should be to ensure we are looking after people's health as opposed to ill-health further down the line.  I very much welcome in particular the reference to general anaesthetic services in this motion because the reality is there are hundreds of children across this country who need general anaesthetic to receive dental care. Many are waiting over a year. There are children and special care adults left in excruciating pain with simply nowhere to go. We know people have to travel very long distances. In the south west, 310 people with additional needs are waiting more than a year for general anaesthetic. In some parts of the country, like my own area of Dublin north city and west, there is no special care service for children at all. We know children have to travel to either Louth or Kildare to get general anaesthetic if that becomes available and, of course, they are in the queue with everybody else from that area.  The reality with the dental treatment services scheme, DTSS, is that we have seen a drastic reduction in the willingness of dentists to participate in it over the last number of years. We must have a serious conversation with dentists about that. It is not good enough to just wave our arms in the air and say there are dentists going into cosmetic surgery and they should stay in dentistry. We need to have a serious conversation about the number of dentists who are currently in the private system and the number who would be willing to get involved with the dental treatment services scheme if the conditions were right. This is not about a free pass for dentists. This is about a serious negotiation. The other aspect of it that is critically important is what is actually available within the DTSS. It is frankly bizarre if you have had two fillings and require a third one in a particular year, you have to wait a further year but there is no limit on the number of extractions done. That is from the dark ages and we have to change how the dental treatment services scheme is designed.  It is also critically important to say the recruitment of dentists needs to be significantly looked at. We know there has not been any significant expansion or investment into our dental schools in decades. Barely half of the 70 dentists who graduate in Ireland each year opt to practise here in the long term. We know we need to add dental nurses and hygienists to critical skills lists. The other key issue for me is that notion of an apprenticeship scheme for dentists. I remember 20 years ago, which was a time dentists were coming out of college around the same time as myself.  Dentists were able to do part-time work with the HSE and part-time with a private practice. It was excellent training for that year after they graduated. Many dentists stayed in the private system but continued to provide that public care through the DTSS. Unfortunately, that system fell away in the intervening years and we do not have that nature of apprenticeship now within our dental services in this country. That needs to be restored. The plea is that we will not be standing here again this time next year talking about the same issues. We need to make sure the right investment goes into dental services and, in particular, there needs to be an absolute focus on prevention so that we are not storing up greater issues for our health service further down the line. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoghan Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Eoghan-Kenny.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eoghan Kenny  On this very important motion by Sinn F\u00e9in, I raise the significant issue of the dental treatment service scheme. Last year in the D\u00e1il, I, along with my colleague, Deputy Sherlock, spoke about this scheme and about how it is simply not working. I refer to the number of people who come to constituency offices right across this country who tell us they are medical card holders but they cannot get access to a dentist in their locality. It is just not acceptable that a medical card holder in this country cannot get access to basic services like dentistry. The people who often take the blame for this are the dentists themselves. I spoke to a dentist practising in my home town of Mallow today who told me she saw a medical card holder, a patient of hers, last week. The cost of the dental treatment was \u20ac333. She received \u20ac109 from the HSE through the service scheme. Why, if I was a dentist, would I stay in that scheme? I would not because I am not covering the basic costs. Dentists themselves also have to live. We are failing two cohorts of people here. We are failing the very dentists we have in this country who are doing their best to provide the care needed in the country, and we are also failing those who have medical cards who very much need the dentistry care.  I worked previously for former Deputy Se\u00e1n Sherlock who was a TD for 17 years, and year on year he would tell me about the significant issues being faced right across the constituencies by those who cannot access dentistry. If a constituent comes to me seeking my support in accessing a dentist who will take them on as a medical card holder, I have to ring around - and I do it because they are constituents of mine - different dentists across the county to ask them if they will take on a medical card holder. In the north Lee catchment area, which covers my constituency of Cork North-Central, 66 dentists have left the dental treatments service scheme in the past five years while just over 20 have joined the scheme. Give or take, about 40 dentists have left that scheme. That should speak wonders to those who are in charge of our health service. It should speak wonders to the HSE in relation to the system itself and the scheme being provided. It is simply not working and it is unacceptable for us, as politicians, to stand in this House and to speak about it year after year, from D\u00e1il term to D\u00e1il term, without actually fixing the problem.  We have a system that is not working. We must change it for the benefit of the people across this country who rely on this care and for the very dentists who provide it. It is a system that is not working and we must change it. It is as simple as that. We must provide effective dentistry care in this country for everybody. There is a socioeconomic issue here as well. People who are on medical cards may be those who are less well-off than those who can pay the all-out cost of dentistry care. There is a socioeconomic problem here as well. It is vulnerable people who are being left behind. We need to fix this dental treatment service scheme because it is not working. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Seamus Healy  Tipperary town, in my constituency, with a population of over 5,000 people and serving a further 10,000 in mid-Tipperary and east Limerick in its hinterland, has no dentist accepting public patients, medical card holders. That is absolutely and totally unacceptable. It is proof positive that the dental and oral health service in this country is totally in disarray and is failing patients very badly. In 2024, the number of dentists operating the dental treatment services scheme was 810. That was down from 1,452 in 2012; a drop of 642. Currently, the number in the scheme is believed to be less than 600. The very small number of dentists employed by the HSE in the public dental service is also reducing by 30, with 65 unfilled posts as of early this year.  The year 2019 saw the Smile agus Sl\u00e1inte plan for the dental service. That was a strategy that was supposed to move the outdated curative care emphasis to a preventative care and health promotion model. However, seven years later, in 2026 there is no implementation of that plan. There is no plan; it is still apparently under consideration. The service has deteriorated since.  Of the 208,000 eligible school children, only 104,000 were screened - 50% - and that figure itself was down by 31,000 on the 2017 figure. Between 2009 and 2023, there was an \u20ac800 million cut in the funding for dental care for PRSI and medical card patients. Under that dental treatment services scheme, there was a drop of 94,000 in treatments between 2012 and 2024. That was down from 395,000 in 2012 to 301,000 in 2024.  As other speakers said, there is a two-year waiting list for patients in pain but requiring general anaesthetics. That is totally unacceptable. Of course, there is also the six-year wait for orthodontic treatment. Parents are being forced into private orthodontic treatment costing literally thousands of euro, sometimes as high as \u20ac6,000, \u20ac7,000 or \u20ac8,000, or their children must suffer on. Orthodontic treatment, as we know, is time sensitive and should be available when necessary. Middle-income and low-income families suffer most due to the lack of the public orthodontic service.  Even in the private service, dentists tell us that 25% are not accepting new adult patients and 33% are not accepting new child private patients. The ratio of dentists to patients in this country is one to 2,160, therefore we are at the lowest quartile of OECD in that regard.  The dental services is in chaos. What we need is a fully-funded resourced and staffed public dental service, and that should be established as a matter of priority. That requires a determined focused and multifaceted strategy to retain the existing dentists and to recruit additional dentists into the public dental service. To do that, a significant number of additional training places for dental professionals at third level must be put in place. Currently, there are only 70 dentists qualifying each year. That will increase in the next academic cycle to 87 due to the new dental school at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland. However, because of the fact that these colleges use fees from overseas students, 44% of students in them are from overseas, so it is almost certain that up to half of the students will never practice in Ireland. We should also remove dental nurses, dental technicians and hygienists from the ineligible list for employment permits and add them to the critical skills list. That would allow recruitment from areas outside the EU. Direct access to dental nurses, hygienists and technicians should be introduced in a similar way that pharmacists can now prescribe in limited regulated circumstances.  The legislation in this area is well over 40 years old. It is absolutely outdated and requires urgent updating. I support this motion and compliment Deputy Cullinane and Sinn F\u00e9in on bringing it forward. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Brian Stanley  I welcome the fact that these proposals are before the D\u00e1il tonight. Only a few short weeks ago, I brought similar proposals to the floor of the D\u00e1il and to Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin and set out a lot of what is in this motion. However, it is good that we are here and that parties are getting behind this.  I have raised these issues with successive Ministers for Health: James O'Reilly, Leo Varadkar, Deputy Simon Harris, Stephen Donnelly and the current Minister. We have had four governments in that time. It is a major failure on the part of a relatively wealthy state that we do not have a good public dental system. We have actually gone backwards. In the case of Laois, the figures show that matters have deteriorated. Students should be getting their first examination in third or fourth class in primary school, just as the Minister of State probably got in Graiguecullen and as I got in Laois. Prevention is key. However, they are now not getting that first examination until third, fourth or fifth year in secondary school. That is according to the HSE. There are 6,600 waiting for their first examination and 800 of these are overdue by six years, according to figures I recently got from the HSE. Some 1,500 are overdue by five years. If prevention is key, untold damage is being done.  I will raise the position of children and adults with special needs. This is a really serious issue. Those who can only have dental treatment under general anaesthetic are really being neglected. I have dealt with a number of cases where people have waited years for hospital access. In one case, not 100 miles from the Minister of State's own house in Laois, a boy has been waiting six years for treatment under general anaesthetic. This child is non-verbal and has serious inflammatory disease. He is in constant pain. This is medical neglect and it is not good enough. After repeated representations, he finally received dental treatment in a hospital recently. He had extractions but the teeth that remain are in very poor condition. The family tell me there is advanced decay and infection. I am informed that he will lose those teeth but the child cannot have dentures. This is very regrettable.  The school dental scheme has to be the foundation of a public dental scheme. We have to catch people when they are young. When this fails, as it is clearly failing in Laois, the whole system fails. How it is failing in other parts of the country has been outlined but the Taoiseach has agreed with me that Laois is a black spot. He also gave me a commitment to take this up with the Minister for Health. I would like to see that followed through on.  The dental treatment services scheme is 95% non-existent. There is just one dentist from Carlow providing this service in a community centre in Killeshin on the Laois-Carlow border. It is impossible for 95% of medical card patients to get treatment under the DTSS, the scheme that is supposed to cater for them. No dentist will do it. No dentist will take on new patients. The PRSI-based scheme, the dental treatment benefit scheme, only provides workers and families with a cleaning and an examination. It does not cover treatment. The Irish Dental Association estimates that we need at least 500 additional public dentists immediately because, as has been outlined here, we actually have fewer public dentists now than we had five years ago. According to the Irish Dental Association, we need an extra 500 if we are to make a start in providing dental care.  The fact is that, as a State, we have failed. Successive governments have failed to put a public dental system in place. Those with special needs have been failed, as have those with medical cards. Workers and families making use of the dental treatment benefit scheme have been failed. Crucially, there has been a failure to provide a proper school dental scheme. All of this shows that we are way behind and have a great deal of work to do. We are supposed to arrive at the full implementation of Sl\u00e1intecare and a public health system within 18 months but, of course, we are nowhere near that. This should form part of that. I acknowledge that extra dental training places have been put in place but it is key that these students are recruited as public dentists and then retained.  There is work to be done. The Government needs to prioritise this with the HSE. We are putting money into the dental system. We probably need to increase that funding. I always argue for money to go into front-line services as much as is possible and for bureaucracy and the top layers to be reduced to make sure money is not wasted before it can be used to provide services. It is time for a major shake-up of how dental services are delivered. Other countries can do it. We should do it. We clearly need action and an action plan. We need to prioritise the areas I have outlined: the public dental scheme, the schools scheme, and children and adults with special needs, particularly those who are non-verbal and need to have treatment under general anaesthetic. Other countries can do it. Other countries did it years ago. We should do it. It needs political will. It is part of Sl\u00e1intecare. We should get to work on it now and waste no opportunity. As I said, I have raised this issue with five or possibly even six Ministers across four governments but we are still not there. We have ground to make up. As an Opposition TD, I would certainly support Government in this. We need to do it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Richard-O'Donoghue.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Richard O'Donoghue  Where has the Government gone wrong on dental and orthodontic services? I was here when this was being raised seven years ago. Where has the Government gone wrong? Why has it not learned and why has it not listened? There are 11,000 on waiting lists, most of whom are children. Some 8,000 have been waiting to see a dentist for longer than two years. Where has the Government gone wrong? All my colleagues here have said the very same things. They have said it is absolutely disgusting and a disgrace that people cannot get to see a dentist. Children are supposed to have at least three visits to a dentist before they leave primary school but they do not get to see a dentist at all.  How do we fix this? As we told the Government a couple of years ago, fixing it is very simple. You build a team. You try to retain the next generation within the country. You train them and get them into practices where they have regular hours. So many people are waiting for services that the dental surgeries are staying open and people are working longer hours. Dentists coming into these practices do not want to stay there because the hours are too long and they can get better hours in other areas. They may leave the country. We have to build a team and encourage that team to stay here working in practices, even local practices, to help people. The same thing happened with SouthDoc, Shannondoc and our doctors' surgeries. The same thing is happening all the time but the Government is ignoring it. The small practices cannot keep going. You see doctors retiring and nobody taking on their surgeries. The same thing is now happening in dentistry.  The Government still has not listened. I have been here listening to this for seven years now. It is the same thing over and over again. We are promised it will be sorted this year, next year or the year after. As this goes on, children and adults are left suffering. I guarantee that if the Minister of State himself had an issue with his teeth, he would not wait. He would go private because he is in a financial position to do so. A lot of people in this country are not in that position. They are watching their children suffer because the Government did not listen and did not build a team to ensure we would have dentistry into the future. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Michael Collins  If you want to understand the true state of a nation's healthcare system, do not just look at its emergency rooms or its hospital beds. Look at its smiles. Look at the teeth of its children, the stress lines of its working class and the growing bills on the kitchen tables of ordinary families. In 2026, Ireland is celebrated globally for economic prosperity, technological innovation and a soaring population but beneath that shiny surface lies a painful systematic reality.  Dental and orthodontic services in Ireland are in state of absolute crisis. There has been a 4% decline in the number of dentists employed by the HSE in the past seven years. There has been a 31% decrease in the number of dental surgeons employed by the HSE since 2005 despite population growth of 32%. There are 27% fewer whole-time equivalent dentists now compared with 2019 and 25.3% fewer dental nurse whole-time equivalents than there were in 2019, with 7.7% of those in the Cork-Kerry region. The crisis hits no one harder than our children. Our target primary school screening programme, once the jewel of preventative care, is broken.  Recent data reveals that over 100,000 eligible schoolchildren were completely denied dental screenings because the number of public HSE dentists per capita has steadily fallen, leaving dozens of vital roles permanently vacant. Only about half of our students are getting checked when they should. What happens when children clear that hurdle and need structural help? They enter the punishing labyrinth of HSE orthodontic waiting lists. Right now, more than 11,000 people, mostly children, are stranded on waiting lists for braces and jaw surgeries in some regions. Families face a six-year wait for public orthodontics. I ask the Minister of State to think about that. A child identified with a severe agonising bite deformity at age 11 might not see a specialist until they are nearly an adult.  The data from the Irish Dental Association also shows 979 children waiting in HSE South West, of whom 438 have been on the list for over a year, 277 waiting in the HSE Dublin and South East region, of whom 172 have been on the list for over 12 months, and 81 on the HSE Mid West list who have been waiting over 12 months for a general anaesthetic. Too many children are leaving primary school without ever having had a dental screening. In 2023, fewer than 104,000 children were screened out of an eligible cohort of 208,000. What we are witnessing today is what professional bodies, such as the Irish Dental Association, have rightly called a poor law service, a regression to an outdated, unequal system where decent, timely oral care has effectively become a luxury for those who can pay and a lottery of charity for those who cannot. The foundation of our public oral health network is crumbling for years. The dental treatment service scheme was meant to guard the most vulnerable, namely, our medical card holders. That scheme has fundamentally collapsed. Private practitioners are withdrawing from State schemes in droves because they are forced to operate under austerity era rules dating back to the financial crisis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Lawless  Families are contacting me regularly about dental care. The level of frustration and desperation is shocking. The truth is that in many parts of the country people cannot access their dentist. In parts of the country people with a medical card will not find a dentist. That is how bad the dental service scheme is.  In relation to the school screening programme, according to the Government, every child is entitled to see a dentist before they leave primary school. However, the vast majority will never see a dentist and get their teeth examined under that programme. The system is in such chaos and has such bottlenecks that thousands of students will continue to leave the school system without ever seeing a dentist. That is absolutely wrong. There are so many families in Ireland who simply cannot afford to go private. These children are suffering and that suffering will go on into adulthood because their teeth will no longer be baby teeth. That is the truth of it.  We need to look at the dental Act. At present, there are bottlenecks in the system. For example, a dental hygienist cannot be seen until a dentist refers a patient to the public system. The fact that someone cannot access a dentist means that, therefore, they cannot access a dental hygienist. That is a bottleneck that needs to be addressed.  Workplace planning is important. This Government is not planning for the future when it comes to dental care, as with many other services in this country. I submitted a parliamentary question to the Minister for further education. The data I received was alarming. It showed that 40% of students studying dentistry in Ireland are from outside of the EU. That is extraordinary. We are training so few dentists in the country, yet 40% are from outside of the EU. The remaining 60% are a combination of Irish, British and EU students. This Government is not even capturing that data. This is really important. We need to understand how many Irish students are in the system. At a time when dental care is in crisis and the Irish Dental Association has said we are currently about 500 dentists short, the solution to this problem is that the Government gives a significant number of the limited places to students from outside of the EU, the vast majority of whom will not be retained in the Irish system. This crisis is going to go on and on.  I have listened to Deputies from around the House outline how many years we are into this crisis. A crisis is temporary. This is now complete and utter gross mismanagement of the system. We need to address workplace planning in the system, expand the places and protect those places for Irish students. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty  I am not the first to say it, but more than 11,000 children are on HSE dental and orthodontist waiting lists. Over 8,000 have been waiting more than a year. Half of all primary school children now finish school without ever receiving even a screening appointment. In some areas, the waiting time is four and a half years. This is not acceptable. In CHO 7, which covers Lucan, Palmerstown, Clondalkin, Saggart, Rathcoole, Citywest, Newcastle, Brittas and Adamstown, it is one of the bottlenecks. The Irish Dental Association told the Committee on Health that dental services are in severe shortage, with multi-year delays for school screenings, and there are chronic vacancies that it was the HSE's job to fill, but it did not do so.  The dental treatment service scheme has collapsed in many places, including my constituency. Participation fell from 1,600 dentists to 600. Different parliamentary question replies have confirmed that some areas have had periods in which no dentists were available. At the same time, we have rapidly growing areas in my constituency, including Adamstown strategic development zone, SDZ, and Clonburris SDZ. It is one of Ireland's fastest growing urban areas, with tens of thousands of new homes and new residents. There has been no corresponding increase in public dental staff, if only to keep up with the low levels we already had.  Again, I am repeating points that others who spoke before me made. Of the children needing dental surgery under general anaesthetic, 3,500 are waiting nationally, of whom 40% have been waiting more than a year. As others noted, there are solutions. It is about training more people who are going work here. If we have to recruit internationally, we have to do it properly and effectively. HSE campaigns, for whatever reason, whether it is pay, the number of adverts or the targeting of people, have been largely unsuccessful, with many posts remaining unfilled and some regions receiving no applicants. This does not only apply to dental services, but it is relevant to this debate. There are persistent vacancies year on year, but we have not run a serious recruitment strategy.  We need more tied scholarships that would assist people doing these courses, while getting them to work in the public sector for a period of time. We need more large-scale recruitment campaigns to beat the Australians at their own game and expanded training places. Again, we need to tie this to people who will work in this country. That is what we should be doing because we are in a crisis. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  I commend Sinn F\u00e9in on bringing this motion forward. It is a shocking and alarming situation. The old saying is \"Mol an \u00f3ige agus tiocfaidh s\u00ed\" - praise the young and they will come. How can they come forward? The dental service is in crisis. In my constituency of Tipperary, we now face the shocking reality that Tipperary town, one of our major county towns, no longer has a dentist providing a service to public patients. This is not acceptable. The Government has repeatedly ignored warnings and pleas for changes to the dental medical card scheme. I have raised my concerns many times in the House and repeatedly with various Ministers for Health, yet we continue to see a complete failure to act. The Government has ignored the cost of dental inflation and expects private dentists to absorb the cost. That cannot happen and it simply will not happen. Anybody in business knows that, for very good reason, it cannot happen. The dentists cannot afford to do it.  The HSE pays a maximum of \u20ac109.96 for up to three repairs.  The laboratory fees alone for that work can range between \u20ac120 and \u20ac150. It is simple maths - it will not save your business if you do that. Before a dentist even factors in their own time, staff or overheads, they are already operating at a loss. These are substantial issues, which the HSE just will not listen to or engage with. A dentist is expected to absorb that and continue to treat public patients. It cannot happen - dentists are disappearing from the system and you cannot blame them.  Dentists simply cannot continue like this. As a result, many have a made the decision to withdraw from the scheme entirely. Others are limiting their services to basic pain relief only. A small minority of dentists are still trying to provide care under the scheme but they are at their wits' end. They are carrying the burden of an underfunded system without the support they need or deserve. It is just not acceptable. When you see a problem, you should try to fix it because this is getting worse year by year. Figures have been quoted on the thousands of children waiting. Children need treatment when they go into their teens or late teens. It is a big issue for them, especially young girls. We talk about mental health but these issues, when children need assistance with their teeth, should be sorted out.  I pay a full and special tribute to Dr. Daniel O'Connell, a Clonmel dentist working on the Quay. For nearly 40 years, he has served this community with professionalism and dedication. He has been sounding the alarm on this issue for years but, like so many others, his voice has not been listened to. Now, entire communities are left without public dental care. He has been warning about this but nobody was listening. I salute him and his staff, the dental technicians and receptionists. You could not find a finer practice.  The situation is untenable. The Government must urgently review reimbursement rates, engage meaningfully with the professionals and take immediate action to restore confidence in the public system. I received an email this evening from a mother about her son. It would bring tears to a stone. He was referred for attention. She asked if we can do anything. The son, whose first name is Noah, was approved by the HSE for publicly funded orthodontic treatment, his orthodontic issues being assessed as severe enough to qualify. When this was originally approved the parents were told Noah would be at least 18 before he was called for the treatment. Imagine that. Having discussed this with his orthodontist, who advised that 18 would be way too late for treatment to be effective, they made a difficult decision to begin private treatment at the end of February. On 5 March, the mother received a call from the orthodontic department of the HSE in Waterford, who informed her that the boy would move forward and receive funding beginning in November 2026. She explained that he had started treatment with a private orthodontist based in County Cork, the parents would be willing to remove him from that service and remove the wire that had been put in if Noah went back onto the public system. She was told that would not be a problem but, hey presto, it would be November 2026. On that basis, the wires were removed in anticipation of his public treatment but, sadly, on 12 June, two weeks ago, the parents received a further call informing them that the national oral health office had withdrawn the offer of funding and the boy, along with about 200 other children, would no longer be entitled to the treatment and would be placed back at the end of the waiting list. What kind of incompetence and disgraceful treatment is that to give a young boy who needs that treatment, was forced to go private, started treatment, got a call that it could be done publicly and later withdrew from that, having been told he would be get treatment in the public system----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Sorca Clarke)  Thank you, Deputy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mattie McGrath  -----and then the money was pulled again. It is a body blow. It is disgusting and someone should be held accountable. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Sorca Clarke)  Deputy, your time is up. I call Deputy Danny Healy-Rae. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Danny Healy-Rae  I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing this serious and important motion to the Chamber this evening. I have encountered many people looking for orthodontic treatment for their children as well as elderly people looking to get seen by a dentist when they only have a medical card. More than 2,000 people, mostly children, are waiting for dental and orthodontic treatment in the south-west region, Cork and Kerry. Deputy Michael Collins came at it from his side. Children are waiting for braces for more than two years. We all know if they do not get the braces when they need them, children can outgrow the possibility of the braces ever working or having the desired effect. I dealt with a number of young girls who lost confidence and would not leave their rooms. They barely go to school and after school they have no interaction with their friends. They do not go out in the evenings, at 16 or 17 years old. They felt they did not look right and they should look better. They were waiting for this treatment but they did not get it.  I do not know if the Minister of State is listening to me but he would want to listen to me about this. Maybe he will listen to other Deputies. We all have the same story. There is something wrong. Children are not getting the treatment they should get at 12, 13 or 14 years of age. When they go beyond that, they are gone beyond the time the braces and the work would have any genuine effect on their problems.  Not all parents can afford to pay for dental care. It is extremely costly and a lot of parents cannot afford it. This has life-long adverse effects on children. I cannot find any dentist in Kerry who accepts the medical card. It does not work because the medical card does not cover the cost. Is the Government giving enough to the HSE? Are we, as taxpayers, giving enough to the HSE to pay dentists properly? They cannot all be wrong. We have great dentists in Kerry, including Killarney, but they say it does not pay them and they have to put on more staff to cover public patients but the money they get to do it does not cover them. That question needs to be addressed. Does the HSE have the money? Is it going elsewhere with it like it is doing with a lot of other things? That question needs to be answered.  Many elderly people have to travel outside the county. I found two dentists - I believe they are both elderly - who would take patients and have taken the patients from Kerry. It is some distance from Kerry but I cannot say where it is because they would be overpowered with people coming to them and maybe then, they would not treat my patients. This is terrible. John Reilly, the publican across the road from us, was a great man to summarise things. Any of us know children have trouble with teeth coming but he used to say, they are trouble coming and trouble going, that is the story with teeth. People have a lot of pain. When a person is in pain and a tooth needs to be extracted, if they have a medical card and do not have the funds to pay for an extraction themselves, surely we should be able to do that for them. Any person in pain, whatever pain it is, it hurts them and drives them crazy. A toothache would drive you insane, out of your mind with pain when it goes on for days and days. I ask the Government to do something about funding the dentists properly to ensure these people can get treatment locally rather than travelling outside the county of Kerry. The Minister of State knows the effort to travel outside the county of Kerry and if you live in a place like Dingle or Cahersiveen, you have to travel two hours before you get to the county boundary to go to Limerick or Cork.  It is not right. We have great dentists in Kerry - very good, professional people - but they cannot afford to do teeth extractions, not to mind fillings, for what they are being reimbursed by the HSE. What is the HSE doing with the funding? Is the Minister giving the HSE enough funding? This is what we need to ask. If we are, then what is the HSE doing with it because it is not giving it to the dentists? There needs to be a re-evaluation. Every dentist cannot be wrong. They all have the same story - it is not paying them to do it. We are not coming in here and making this up. I am telling the Minister of State the God's gospel truth. Every day and every week, we have people in our office looking to see can they get a tooth pulled, but they cannot find a dentist who will take the medical card. That is the gospel truth. I am asking the Minister of State, for God's sake, to do something about it because it is time he did. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Robert Troy)  I thank all Deputies across the House for their contributions to the debate. I will not disagree with many of the arguments they made. While some progress has been made recently, it is absolutely fair to say that the current level of access to dental and orthodontic services is not where it needs to be. It needs to be improved. I know this from the various contributions that have been made tonight, having taken this debate on behalf of the Government, and from my engagement with constituents. It is important to recognise the challenges that many individuals and families are facing, whether they involve delays in accessing dental care, lengthy waiting lists for orthodontic treatment or difficulties accessing general anaesthetic. These issues are simply not good enough.  As has been acknowledged, meaningful reform is needed to address these long-standing issues. Work is under way in this regard. The Department of Health is working in conjunction with the HSE to develop a focused two-year national oral health action plan to improve access to oral healthcare services, while long-term reform is under way. Completion of the action plan, which is at an advanced stage, will also be informed, insofar as possible, by the recommendations made by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health in its report on dental services. The action plan will respond to sustained service pressures, workforce constraints and growing waiting lists, particularly for children, people with additional needs and other vulnerable members of our community.  The plan contains ten key action areas for implementation, including addressing waiting lists for the child dental programme and orthodontic services; a review of the dental treatment service scheme; support for recruitment, education and training for dental service positions; and support for innovation and new models of service. In the coming weeks, the Department expects to meet with the Irish Dental Association to further consult on the plan, with a view to finalising and publishing it shortly thereafter. Engagement is critically important but the publication and implementation of this plan are a priority and cannot come quick enough. I think we can all agree on this. The implementation of the plan will be overseen by an implementation oversight group jointly chaired by the Department of Health and the HSE. The Department and the HSE will continue to engage with key stakeholders to inform the delivery of the plan.  I acknowledge that the current school-based appointment service for children in second, fourth and sixth class is inadequate. Delays in early intervention can result in children needing more extensive treatment in later life. The action plan will address this by reducing the appointment backlog, with an initial focus on children in sixth class. While this is an important step, it is not a substitute for a service that provides early preventative oral health care for all children. This reform will be essential to improving oral healthcare services and is aligned with our national oral health policy, Smile agus Sl\u00e1inte.  The success of the action plan will be enabled through addressing workforce constraints. Without a significant number of trained oral healthcare professionals, we cannot deliver the service to the level that is required. While it is encouraging that the number of dentists has increased by over 28% since 2019, this is simply not good enough. We still need more dentists, as well as dental hygienists and dental nurses, to provide the oral healthcare services that the public needs, deserves and requires. At the same time, we must maximise the role of dental hygienists, dental nurses and other dental healthcare professionals, including through the introduction of direct access, where appropriate, to enhance the capacity of our workforce. In collaboration with the Dental Council of Ireland, the scopes of practice of oral healthcare professionals, including dental hygienists, are being examined by the Department of Health to ensure each oral healthcare professional can work to the top of their licence, which is aligned with Sl\u00e1intecare. Workforce reform must also be supported by a modern legislative framework. Updating the Dentists Act 1985 and introducing statutory continuous professional development are important steps in ensuring our oral healthcare services are fit for purpose and capable of meeting future demands. These reforms will help to support ongoing professional development across the dental sector.  I assure the Deputies that the Minister for Health will continue the ongoing work to address both the access issues that are affecting current healthcare services and to progress work on the implementation of the oral health action plan, which sets out a body of transformational reforms. These challenges are significant but we aim to address them across a multi-year programme of work. The first phase over the next two years will have a specific focus on short-term improvements to core services aimed at improving access and reducing waiting times. At the same time, this plan will support strategic planning and progressing the necessary structural reform required to build an oral healthcare service that provides care to people, with the right care in the right place at the right time. Along with the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, I again thank the Deputies across the House for their contributions and reiterate the Government's commitment to improving our oral healthcare services. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dessie Ellis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Dessie Ellis  Early childhood dental examinations are important because they identify problems before they become serious. Early assessments of a child's teeth, jaws and bite can detect developmental issues that can reduce the need for more extensive treatment at a later age. Early check-ups can detect other health concerns and dentists may note the signs of conditions that can affect the child's overall health, such as nutritional deficiencies, oral infections and so on. Preventative dental care and early treatment is more cost-effective and less invasive than treating advanced dental disease. Early dental examinations ensure healthy oral development and establish good dental habits into adulthood. However, children can often face years before orthodontic treatment begins. This can be a result of staff shortages as the HSE has recruitment and staff retention problems. This has impacted school dental screening programmes and caused significant delays in routine dental assessments for children.  The long waits for specialist orthodontic treatment and the fact that orthodontic treatment is not covered by a medical card have meant that parents and adults have turned to private care. The cost of private orthodontic treatment can be prohibitive and treatments can cost several thousand euro. Children requiring moderate orthodontic treatment will not qualify for free care as the HSE will only fund treatments for children with severe orthodontic problems based on strict clinical criteria.  There are significant backlogs in targeted check-ups in the school dental screening service. This is a result of the many children reaching secondary school before receiving dental assessments. There are also fewer dentists participating in State-funded schemes. Among the measures the Government plans could implement is to put in place a plan to reduce waiting times for dental care and to increase resources for the school screening programme. Our dental healthcare is a system beset by workforce shortages, underfunded State schemes and outdated legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in  Once again there is a crisis for families and primary school children in Counties Wicklow and Wexford and across the State. From Bunclody right up to An Bhearn Dearg, from Rathdrum to Kilmuckridge, children are waiting not months but years to have their teeth checked and attended to. My background is in primary school teaching and half of children at primary school level are not receiving dental screening appointments, something that was standard 50 years ago when this country was supposed to have been poor.  More than 11,000, mostly children, are waiting on dental treatment, with over 8,000 for more than a year. Some 40% of children are on a waiting list two years for braces. In counties Wicklow and Wexford, almost 900 young people are waiting between three and four years for orthodontic treatment. It gets worse. Following a parliamentary question I submitted last year, in 2025, the HSE admitted that the public dental service was still only targeting children who were in second or sixth class in 2019. That means many children in counties Wicklow and Wexford have simply been left behind, and could be in their leaving certificate cycle before being seen by a dentist, instead of having been seen in sixth class in primary school. This is unbelievable in a super-wealthy country in 2026. Meanwhile, the number of dentists available locally under the dental treatment services scheme has collapsed by 50% in County Wexford and 25% in County Wicklow over the past seven years. That is not an accident; it is a failure of planning, investment and political will.  Let us be clear about what needs to happen. The Minister of State needs to publish a real action plan to cut the waiting lists fast, modernise the DTSS, restart school screening immediately, integrate this with the GP visit card, invest properly in public dental services, expand access to dental nurses and hygienists and introduce a dental Act. I ask him to vote for our motion to bring about these changes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Johnny Mythen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Johnny-Mythen.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Johnny Mythen  This motion calls for major reform of dental care in Ireland because the current system is systematically broken. The HSE dental lists are evidence of this, with 11,000 people, most of whom are children, waiting for an appointment. Some 8,000 are waiting more than a year, while 40% of children are waiting more than two years. In fact, we had a well-known and reported case in my own county of Wexford, where a pensioner, Mr. Hayes, pulled out his own teeth because he was in excruciating pain and had tried in vain to get an appointment at several dental practices. This is totally unacceptable in a wealthy, modern country.  Only one third of dentists are providing public dental treatment services, and only one tenth of dentists work for the HSE. This is causing major financial hardship for working families and people with disabilities, especially those who require an anaesthetic. This type of treatment costs a small fortune. Many families have to borrow from their local credit union for dental treatment. This is wrong. The recommendations of the Dental Council of Ireland should be implemented and a new dental Act should replace the outdated 1985 Act. A workforce plan must be implemented and more places must be made available for our young trainee dentists. Sinn F\u00e9in is also calling for a digitalisation of data for special care patients and patients with intellectual disabilities to ensure transparency and accountability.  We have an ageing population. It is not rocket science. It is a global fact that people will have problems with their teeth and oral health as they grow older. This is why we in Sinn F\u00e9in are calling for a total overhaul of our current dental system, which is completely out of date, and a legal framework for dental practices. Every man, woman and child should have access to a dentist if they need one. A major reform of our dental care system must happen because the current one is creating a two-tier operation that is only serving those who can afford it and those who have expensive medical insurance, while the majority of citizens are left to wait for years for treatment. This is wrong and something must change. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  The Minister of State has accepted that dental care, especially orthodontic care in this State, particularly that provided by the public system, is not fit-for-purpose in any way, shape or form. I do not know how many times we have all been in here talking about the DTSS. The fact is a person is incredibly lucky on a medical card if he or she can find a dentist and avail of it, but we have all seen that even in those cases, a person may be offered an extraction at times instead of a filling, on the basis of how not fit-for-purpose the system is.  I do not know how long we are going to continue talking about this. It would make an awful lot of sense if rather than saying great strides are being made, the Minister of State was saying great strides have been made and the Government has delivered a system that works for the people. It is as simple as that.  Regarding orthodontic care and Louth County Hospital, in one of my recent parliamentary questions, I asked for an update and the response was:  At this time, the Department is under-resourced, with a vacant consultant orthodontist post. There is a 1.0 whole-time equivalent for the Louth-Meath region, and 1.2 whole-time equivalent vacant specialist orthodontist post in Dundalk clinic.  The specialist orthodontist position has been vacant since January 2024. In August 2024, a recruitment campaign was halted due to the pay and numbers strategy, leaving only one valid vacancy to fill. The latest update I received on this is the post has been readvertised. It does not matter about the closing date, we need to see somebody in position. I could say the same about the specialist orthodontist 0.2 WTE post which has been vacant since March 2025 and, again, \u201creadvertised lately.\u201d We need to see that filled. The consultant orthodontist post has been vacant since late December 2022. This is not working at all. I also have a letter from a company saying it offers cross-Border orthodontic health care for patients. It states that the contract that was offered to it has failed miserably and it cannot even offer a private, short-term solution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy David Cullinane  I thank all of the speakers for their contributions. It has to be said, among Government and Opposition Members, including the Ministers, there is a recognition that we have a real problem, and that children and adults, but particularly children, are waiting too long. The problem is that this is not the first debate we have had on this issue. It is not the first time that issues and problems with dental and orthodontic wait times have been raised in this D\u00e1il.  I mentioned that the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health had a number of sessions on this and published a report. I have been talking about this issue for the best part of ten years or more. I recall dealing with this issue when I was a member of Waterford City and County Council, many years ago. There is no part of the country about which it can be said a top class service is being provided but there are parts of the country where it is really bad, and the south east and Waterford is unfortunately one of the worst-performing. The Minister of State talked about the system relying on private contractors, and it is, but no public system should depend on private contractors. The problem is that we simply do not have enough dentists and orthodontists working in the public system. That is a reality. When the Government says it cannot hire or find them or get them into the public system, that is what workforce planning is about. The Government starts a plan and examines why something is the case, deals with those challenges, overcomes them and puts in place a strategy to enable us to train more dentists and orthodontists, recruit more and have them in the public system, but it is not happening, and because it is not happening, we are not treating children in schools or doing the screening. Children with disabilities are waiting too long for treatment and the vast majority of children waiting for braces or urgent care are waiting far too long.  It is simply not good enough. We have put forward solutions in this motion. This motion is not being opposed by Government but what I want to see is not just the Government not opposing it, but actually engaging with the solutions we have put on the table. Let us improve this service so that we are not here in a year or a number of years having the same circular debate with more children unfortunately waiting for care. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and declared carried."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Dental and Orthodontic Services: Motion [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Disabilities Assessments","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_16.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I ask the Minister of State to provide an update on the progress of the establishment of a new autism assessment service. We all know about the issue that exists. We are talking about more than 20,000 on the assessment of need waiting lists, many of them over the six months in which that should be provided legally. There are a huge number of parents out there who can get neither an assessment nor the therapies their child requires. We really need to solve this for the parents out there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Children, Disability and Equality (Deputy Emer Higgins)  I thank the Deputy for this question. On 26 May, the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality, Deputy Foley and I, along with the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and the HSE were pleased to launch the new autism assessment and intervention pathway protocol - the autism protocol.  The new protocol represents an important step in ensuring that children and adults have access to appropriate and timely autism assessment processes. The new protocol will, for the very first time, provide a standardised assessment process across children's disability network teams, primary care and mental health services.  Evidence tells us that some presentations of autism are easier to identify than others. Informed by this evidence, the HSE has designed a protocol that will introduce a three-tiered approach to autism assessment. It will match the intensity of assessment to the complexity of the presentation, as decided by the assessing clinicians. It is a pathway designed specifically for autism assessment, and this includes differential assessment and diagnosis, as required, as well as the development of a formulation to provide clearer understanding of the person's lived experience and the services and supports they may require.  The autism protocol has been developed over a period of five years, with input from people with lived experience, civil society and all clinical disciplines involved in assessments as well as managers and service leaders across disability, primary care and mental health services.  To support the implementation of this, my Department secured funding in this year's budget for the development of inreach teams. These will consist of a psychologist, a speech and language therapist, an occupational therapist and a case worker. These teams will work with the health areas to support and to build capacity within community services, including mental health and primary care teams as well as our CDNTs.  Implementation planning for the protocol within the regions will commence in quarter 3 of this year and will include relative briefing and training within the regional healthcare areas. We are providing training in the meantime, until that point. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I ask the Minister of State to give the exact timelines when she gets an opportunity again----- "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  Sure. I understand. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  -----because, obviously, it is vital that we see this. It is also a matter of knowing how these assessments will be made. Some have said they would be worried about how the assessment officer or whoever makes the clinical determination. It is about ensuring that there would be a sufficient amount of clinical backup. We all accept that if we were starting again, we would have to look at a different system as regards assessment of need and how therapies are provided. I have always had a worry about how we will try to ensure we have enough of a workforce as regards therapists, whether we are talking about the inreach teams, CDNTs or primary care. In addition, I ask the Minister of State to give the up-to-date figure for the assessment-of-need waiting list and how she sees this impacting that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  To be clear on the timelines, since the Deputy specifically asked, this is now launched. It will be rolled out in quarter 3 of this year. Right now, we are working with teams across the country to upskill and to train them on this new system of autism protocol and pathways. It is expected that when it is fully rolled out, each of the 20 integrated health areas will have one established inreach team. This year we will recruit 11 inreach teams. The final design and respective roles of the teams are being finalised. Recruitment for those inreach teams will commence in quarter 3 and quarter 4 of this year and they will be, as the Deputy referred to them in his remarks, the backup for the system. While it is not possible to quantify the exact impact at this stage in terms of assessments, it is anticipated that the successful implementation of the autism protocol will help to reduce demand for assessment of need, which the Deputy also mentioned. It will do that through the provision of a more direct and a clearer path to autism assessment for children and their families. To be clear, however, this does not in any way impact anybody's statutory right to an assessment of need. It is just a clearer access pathway through existing services such as primary care, our children's disability network teams and CAMHS, should people with an appropriate route to an assessment require one. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  I understand that your right to an assessment of need remains, but the fact is that these are attempts to reduce the waiting list. We all know that what parents want to see is a better form or means of assessment and provision of therapies. We need to ensure we have a proper framework that works. I will ask again about an aspect of this matter that I have asked about in a further question which I imagine will not get answered tonight. At this point in time, what are the numbers for the assessment of need waiting list and, as I said, specifically the number that is above the six months that are legally required to provide that service for families? We all know the issues that exist out there. The problem is that parents and children are really suffering from the fact that we have not put a proper framework in place to provide the therapies and the constant assessment, which is the best means of doing this, to provide something that works. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  I agree with much of what the Deputy says. This is an attempt to provide alternative means for assessments. There will be three tiers in this autism assessment and intervention pathway protocol. Tier 1 is for an assessment with clear presentations of autism, tier 2 is a more detailed assessment for unclear causes using structured tools and input from multiple professionals, and tier 3 is an assessment for more complex presentations involving additional specialists and further reports. I know the Deputy has a further parliamentary question. I think it is No. 19. The updated figure we have is that there are 21,782 applications overdue for completion. That was as at the end of March. The figures we have are on a quarterly basis, so that is the most up-to-date figure we have this quarter. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Disabilities Assessments"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_17.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  Affordable, accessible childcare provision is vital for the proper functioning of our society and our economy. What plans does the Minister have to publish a detailed timeframe, including milestones and key performance indicators, for the provision of \u20ac200-per-month childcare, as set out in the commitments in the programme for Government? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister for Children, Disability and Equality (Deputy Norma Foley)  I wish Deputy Ennis well in his new position as spokesperson for his party on all matters to do with children. I acknowledge his predecessor, Deputy Farrelly, who gave 110% to his spokesmanship. I wish him well in his new appointment. I think he is in transport now, is he? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  Yes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I wish him well regardless of where he has moved to. Anyway, I welcome Deputy Ennis.  In relation to the question he has asked, I have always been clear in communicating that the \u20ac200-per-month programme for Government commitment is to be achieved over the lifetime of this Government. Shaping the Future: Early Years Action Plan, Phase 1 Report, published last December, sets out measures to achieve key programme for Government commitments on the affordability, quality and accessibility of early learning and care and school-age childcare. The action plan adopts a phased approach that enables action to be taken in 2026 while allowing adequate time for a broad public consultation and analysis on longer term actions.  The consultation process has a number of channels designed to facilitate the participation of a wide range of stakeholders. It includes an online survey which has received more than 11,000 responses; 56 local consultation events right across the country; an art-based engagement exercise with children; and a national consultation event, which is scheduled to take place later in the year. Results of this consultation, and additional analysis, will inform phase 2 of the plan. Phase 2 will set out actions to be undertaken from 2027 right through to the end of 2029.  The fee freeze and maximum fee caps required for core funding have been key to the progress in recent years in making ELC and SAC services more affordable. The 2026 actions on affordability will include further reduction in some of the highest fees paid by parents by lowering the maximum fees that core funding partner services can charge. In addition, from autumn 2026, we will reduce out-of-pocket costs for lower income families through the national childcare scheme. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  In the lead-up to the last election, the T\u00e1naiste promised to cap childcare fees at \u20ac200 per month, and that was to do with the early stage of the Government. His words were exactly these:  I actually believe the cost bit we can deliver quite quickly. I believe it can be delivered in the early time of the government.  Not the end. Last week, on a podcast, he said that we would not get there by the next budget, that that was never the commitment - again, his words - and that the commitment was over the lifetime of the Government, as the Minister mentioned. Once again the goalposts seem to have moved. Timelines seem to have moved. The targets are moving yet again. What commitment is this Government giving such that we will not see broken promises before an election again? Not only are we so far from the \u20ac200-per-month reduction that was promised again in the programme for Government; we are yet to see a clear roadmap on how this reduction will take place. Again, the same roadmap was promised by the T\u00e1naiste. Goalposts are being moved.  In his words again, it was to be within the Government's first 100 days. We are now 500 days into the lifetime of this Government. It is just not good enough or quick enough for families that are struggling. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  In the interests of clarity, we must be clear that after any election there is a negotiation with various parties to make up a Government. As part of that, a programme for Government is written down and committed to. Those are the plans which will be committed to over the lifetime of the Government. I was involved in the writing of the programme for Government. When that was being done, the commitment was clear. This Government involves a number of parties and individuals. The programme for Government lays out that over the lifetime of the Government, the cap of \u20ac200 will be achieved. There is no deviation in that regard. There is no equivocation. It was made clear when the Government was formed.  As already stated, there has been progress in terms of a reduction in costs for low-income families. The lower income threshold for the income-assessed subsidy has been increased from \u20ac26,000 to \u20ac34,000 in order to ensure that families with incomes below the relative poverty income line receive the maximum subsidy. There has also been an increase in the upper threshold. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Daniel Ennis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","memberCode":"Daniel-Ennis.D.2026-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Daniel Ennis  I take on board what the Minister is saying. I do not hold out much hope. Time and again, the Government has treated childcare as an afterthought. As a father of two, this is something I live with every day. Childcare costs are crippling families. I knocked on close to 40,000 doors, and it came up quite a lot. We were not seeing it much in representations or emails, but it certainly came up in the one-to-one conversations. The Government has failed so many times in respect of this promise. We are talking about getting costs down. We are a long way from the \u20ac200 per month cap. The average cost of childcare is \u20ac850 per month. Ireland is an outlier in Europe. We are not moving quick enough with this. I hope to see this happening sharpish. Working with the Minister on the committee, we hope to do that. I do not hold out much hope, however. That was a promise before the election that I was hoping would be delivered for my family and many others. This problem is not just in Dublin Central, it is right across the country. Families are crippled. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I look forward to working with the Deputy at the committee. Just to be clear, 25% of families are already on the \u20ac50 per week or are paying less than that. I absolutely accept that there is much more work to do. In recent weeks, we have introduced the fee caps. The full cost for families availing of just less than 50 hours' service - this is the full day service that the vast majority of parents are availing of - is \u20ac198 per week. That is when the national childcare subsidy is included. That will now be reduced to \u20ac183 per week. We are seeing progress.  I already mentioned something that has been fought very hard for by so many different people in terms of children at risk of disadvantage, namely that the thresholds have been increased from \u20ac26,000 to \u20ac34,000 and from \u20ac60,000 to \u20ac68,000 in order to maximise people's access to the national childcare subsidy. Some progress has been made. There is more progress to be made, and we will continue that through phase 2 of the action plan. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_18.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I want to begin by wishing Deputy Ennis well. I look forward to working with him both in the House and on the committee. I congratulate him on his appointment.  I want to ask the Minister about the eight locations that will be chosen this year for the State-led childcare facilities, which is something I very much welcome. I would really appreciate an update on where we are at and when we will see those locations announced, particularly as we come to the halfway point in the year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I appreciate the Deputy's interest in this matter. She has advocated very strongly in respect of it. I can confirm that \u20ac135 million is being made available between 2026 and 2030 for the State-led early learning and childcare capital programme to facilitate the provision high-quality and accessible early learning and childcare. The process begins this year, with investment in buildings in what is a groundbreaking initiative for the Department of children. Capital funding will be used to acquire and-or fit out buildings depending on requirements.  The Department will work with not-for-profit providers to design, open and operate services. These will be not-for-profit services. To assess potential sites, a forward planning model has been developed. The model seeks to identify the nature and volume of different types of early learning and childcare places across the country, and how that aligns with the number of children in the corresponding age cohorts at local level. An extensive data analysis exercise has been undertaken to map available publicly subsidised supply.  As well as a forward planning model, a suite of appraisal criteria and tools is being developed in order to assess potential adjustment and alignment of projects with Department goals of promoting equality, inclusion, accessibility and affordability. The Department is assessing project options in order to identify which are best placed to deliver on the goals of the programme. Analysis of project options is advancing well. Project proposals can be brought to the attention of the Department through completion of a preliminary appraisal form, which is available from the city and county childcare committees. When a suitable project is brought to the Department, the forward planning and delivery unit develops a preliminary business case. The preliminary business case assesses the building and the location associated with the project against the programme's appraisal criteria, as well as analysing cost, value for money and the quality of the proposed building. The preliminary business case is considered by a capital steering group comprising senior Department officials and members from the Office of Public Works and the Department of Education and Youth. It can then be submitted for approval in principle. It is important to note that this is not a guarantee of funding for a project; it is, rather, another step along the way. Following approval in principle, a final business case is developed for the project which includes selection of an eligible operator, agreement of investment or purchasing a building, and detailed building design and costing work. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I welcome this, but we all know, and it is no secret to say, that eight locations will be announced this year to provide, I understand, about 800 places. We have to look at the level of need. We know there are between 40,000 and 50,000 children on waiting lists across the State. Ahead of the budget, I want to ask the Minister again about the next phase of building blocks, given the level of need and demand that exists. I met IBEC last week to discuss women in particular not being able to return to the workforce. They now see access to childcare as a major labour market issue. We have the impact, typically, on the mother but also on the family as a whole and the child. There there is the ability to work, pay tax, get out in the morning and have your child in a safe place where they are looked after and educated, in many cases for the entire day. I want to ask about building blocks and extending it to purchase existing buildings rather than just focusing on new builds, simply in view of the level of need. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I agree entirely in terms of what we are seeking to achieve in early years. It is equality of opportunity for children in the first instance. That is probably the most important element, but it is much more as well. It is also equality of opportunity for women in many respects in order to allow them, as the Deputy outlined, to go out and take up other opportunities should they choose to do so.  I want to comment on where we are at currently. The final business case is considered by the capital steering group prior to being submitted for approval. Only once a final business case has been developed, which provides full details of a project, can final approval for funding be sought. To date, four projects have received approval in principle and are being developed. A further five projects are being prepared for submission for approval in principle. No final decisions have been made on the specific projects, but I look forward to sharing the details of the projects as they are agreed. Local city and county childcare committees are supporting the development of projects. In that context, community early learning and childcare operators, local authorities, developers and others who might have suitable premises or projects should contact their local committee.  On building blocks, everything is being considered in the context of the budget. We will see how we go with that. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I know I am like a broken record, but it would be remiss of me not to mention Boyle in north Roscommon. The needs analysis, which was very well done, showed that the national benchmark is 20 childcare places per 75 households. In the town of Boyle and in the surrounding rural area, there are 20 childcare places per 1,043 households. There is a real need in Boyle, and that has been proven through the needs analysis I shared with the Minister and the forward planning unit, which very kindly gave us an extremely helpful briefing this morning on the model.  A former childcare facility on the outskirts of Boyle has become available again. It was available and then it was not. It is now available again. The childcare committee has passed on the information in that regard. We have a unique opportunity now. It is a purpose-built facility and is ready to go. That is a project that really needs to be looked at in terms of the eight overall projects. Again, I would love to see building blocks extended. We have so many empty buildings in the State. Let us use them for childcare and for communities. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I acknowledge the Deputy's advocacy on an ongoing basis. I get that from Deputy Martin Daly, from councillors and from everybody across the system. They are very well situated to advocate. I get it from my Fine Gael colleagues as well. We are very conscious of the fact that State-led is one element while Building Blocks is another. If we can pour more into both or, indeed, other initiatives, we are happy to do so.  It is a significant step forward in terms of State-led. We have never done this before and we are able to stand up eight this year. The Deputy specifically referenced buildings being made available. That is the purpose of State-led at this point, in that where buildings are readily available, we can access them quite quickly and move on to finding not-for-profit providers. Be assured that everything is in the mix for this forthcoming budget and we consider everything, including Building Blocks. We have had a scheme this year and in the previous year. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_19.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I wish Deputy Ennis the very best in his new role and look forward to working with him on childcare. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I have raised the matter with the Minister for Health. Indeed, I have forwarded the Deputy's question to her for her attention because it is a matter that is more directly within her remit. The Department of Children, Disability and Equality does not determine the use of buildings when it is not involved in funding them. The design of buildings and the designation of space within them, including for the purposes of early learning and childcare, is a matter for the owners of the building in accordance with the wider planning legislation. Individual planning decisions are a function of planning authorities and An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la is statutorily independent in the performance of these functions.  The 2001 planning guidelines for local authorities and childcare facilities were issued under section 28 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 by the Minister for housing. The guidelines are intended to ensure a consistent approach to the treatment of planning applications in respect of the land use planning aspects of early learning and childcare provisions. The guidelines propose appropriate locations for early learning and childcare facilities, including in the vicinity of concentrations of workplaces where significant numbers of staff are employed.  While the 2001 planning guidelines have contributed to the delivery of a substantial level of early learning and childcare infrastructure, I am also aware that there are challenges in implementing the guidelines. The Government is committed to reviewing the guidelines to ensure early learning and childcare spaces are provided and put into use. The Planning and Development Act 2024 and the revised national planning framework, along with the ongoing work on Shaping the Future, the phase 2 action plan for the development of the early learning and childcare sector, provides a strong basis from which to pursue this work.  Separately, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality has been liaising with Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage with regard to the planning process as set out in the planning and development regulations of 2001. The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has confirmed that the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality will be designated as a prescribed body to be notified by local authorities of planning applications that might give rise to a change in the demand from early learning and childcare provision. This is a really positive step forward for us in the Department. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  That is a very comprehensive reply. I have a couple of questions arising from it. The Minister sent my question to the Minister for Health. Has the Minister for Health come back to the Minister on this? Does the Minister, Deputy Foley, agree with us all that it beggars belief that, when we are spending so much money on the children's hospital, we are not spending any money within that hospital on childcare facilities, given what Deputies Ennis and Kerrane have said about the lack of childcare facilities right throughout the country and the fact that the Minister comes in here every month and tells us that she is doing her best? I have no doubt that she is, but we are spending up to \u20ac2 billion on the children's hospital when, as the Minister stated, we are looking at somewhere in the vicinity to have childcare facilities. Given the need for childcare facilities in such a facility and the fact that we want to ensure that consultants and all those employed in the hospital can actually get to work and increase the number of women in particular who can go back to work, does the Minister agree with us that this is a missed opportunity at the very least and somebody needs to come back to us as quickly as possible? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  To be fair to the Minister for Health, this has just been brought to her attention. She is going to look into it, she has a copy of the Deputy's question and I have no doubt she will revert. We would have to examine whether this the norm in hospitals across the country. Only the Minister for Health can confirm that.  I have to say that the guidelines themselves actually refer to within \"the vicinity\". I am not saying that these guidelines are perfect, and we have had discussions here before where we were looking for them to be updated. I have raised the matter with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and there is a piece of work ongoing on that.  I appreciate the Deputy's bona fides in raising this matter. It is outside my remit but I accept the goodwill of the Minister for Health, who has said that she will look at it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I will take up the Minister's second point, or maybe the other point that she made, about planning guidelines. Is she telling the House that she will now be consulted on all planning applications and that this is a first for the Department of Children, Disability and Equality? Has the Department never been consulted on projects such as this because if that is the case, it is worrying? It is an opportunity for us all to get involved in the planning process but, more importantly, her Department will now be involved in planning applications as we move forward, given the lack of childcare that we have all mentioned.  Will the Minister confirm that her Department was not previously involved in planning applications as one of the bodies that would be asked to comment on them and that that has changed? Obviously, that will be positive going forward. Is her Department now getting involved in such planning applications? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  The Deputy and anybody who has served in a local authority will be aware of prescribed bodies that are consulted in terms of what is coming before the local authority. The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage has consented and confirmed that the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality will now be one of the prescribed bodies to be notified by local authorities of a planning application that might give rise to a change in the demand for early learning and childcare provision. For example, I think we are all very aware that where permission has been granted for a childcare facility for whatever reason, a further application can be made down the line for a change of use, which is something that is granted by local authorities very frequently. This new departure will give us an opportunity to make our observations and make our case that this really should not be allowed. If it is designated as an early years and childcare facility, it should serve the community. That is what it is there for. This will be really helpful and I am appreciative of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage in this regard. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Children in Care","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_20.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I wish to ask the Minister about voluntary residential care services in our State in terms of looking after some of our most vulnerable children, namely, children in the care of the State. I recently visited a voluntary residential service and was really impressed. It was literally like walking into any other family home in the country. I want to ask the Minister specifically about investment in these voluntary, not-for-profit services. Targets have been set for increased capacity by Tusla but they have not materialised. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I know that the vast majority of Members will agree with me that the preferred option for children coming into the care of the State is foster care. It is the first option. This is where almost nine in every ten children in care are placed. However, Tusla operates in a very challenging and demand-led environment providing vital services to children, young people and families that often present with particularly complex issues, and foster care might not meet their needs. Tusla has acknowledged the need to increase its provision of residential placements, including those provided by community and voluntary organisations. Like the Deputy, I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge the incredible work done by staff in community and voluntary organisations to provide safe and supportive placements for children in care. I was really pleased to meet with representatives of the community and voluntary sector in January of this year to discuss matters affecting them and the children for whom they provide care.  It is important to note that the State has invested significantly in community and voluntary care provision, with the sector being allocated an increase in funding of \u20ac5.2 million in 2023 to ensure its ongoing sustainability. I was also pleased to see community and voluntary workers agree to a pay increase of 9.25% last year, ensuring that voluntary workers are better paid for their very valuable work.  I am conscious that Tusla is independent in its functions and it is a matter for the agency to manage and allocate resources, including voluntary residential provision, to address areas of greatest need while managing within its allocated budget. In 2025, Tusla reported that it had provided funding for community and voluntary residential provision of just under \u20ac30 million. The Department continues to support Tusla in the provision of the funding and resources needed to carry out its functions.  It is committed to ensuring the continuity of Tusla's work in supporting vulnerable children and families, as evidenced by the year-on-year increases in funding provided to the agency. In budget 2026, an overall increase of \u20ac177 million was provided, which amounted to a 14% increase in Tusla's budget over its 2025 allocation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  The committee on children will be writing to the Minister, if she has not already received our correspondence, asking that she seek a specific allocation for Tusla in the budget that would be used to expand residential places within the voluntary sector. I am really uncomfortable with the reality right now whereby we have voluntary residential services that have been in place for decades, are regulated to the hit, and rightly so, have to account for every red cent they receive and return any unspent moneys, while at the same time, we see millions of euro being given at the drop of a hat for special emergency arrangements, SEAs. That is a kick in the teeth for those voluntary organisations that do everything right and have to fundraise to keep their doors open. It seems lots of money can be given to organisations that are not regulated or inspected and which do not have to do anything in respect of those regulations. Will the Minister look specifically at money for expansion solely in the voluntary sector? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  To reiterate, there has been a significant year-on-year increase in Tusla funding, with a 14% increase this year, or \u20ac177 million, in the context of its overall budget of \u20ac1.4 billion for 2026. That will provide Tusla with the opportunity to increase the overall provision of residential placements for children in need to more than 800. The Deputy will appreciate that as the 2027 budget process is ongoing, I cannot give a commitment at this stage in respect of future funding. She can be assured that we have seen increases for Tusla year on year.  Work is already under way on Ireland's first national policy framework for alternative care. That is really important and will be to the benefit of children in State care. The framework aims to articulate a whole-of-government vision for the future of alternative care in Ireland, thereby delivering on a programme for Government commitment in this area. We have had excellent engagement from the community and voluntary sector through the consultation process. It is really important that it have a say in shaping the future of the care system in Ireland, including the alternative care system. The framework will provide the basis for future investment in the care system. I acknowledge all the contributions that have been made to support that process in recent months. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  The issue I am raising is that while funding to Tusla has increased, the question is where that funding is going. Given the crisis that exists for any child who is in care and while acknowledging that foster care is absolutely the number one option, I ask the Minister, where fostering is not available, to look to invest within the voluntary sector. I was really alarmed to see correspondence from America in a couple of instances recently looking to see whether people would be interested in setting up residential places in Ireland. International companies are looking to Ireland as a way to make money on the back of our care system. That is disgusting. What is more disgusting is that good, decent and proper voluntary organisations that provide homes to our most vulnerable children, and which are regulated, inspected and must account for every cent, are struggling to remain open. Some face closure and although we cannot give them the money they need to keep operating, we are looking at giving millions of euro to international investors that are not subject to regulation and inspection. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  To be clear, the additional funding Tusla was given this year allowed it to open an additional 38 residential care placements in 2025, with a prediction that a further 47 will be provided in 2026-27, which gives a total over the two years of 85. The overall budget increase will help Tusla to increase the overall availability of places for children in need to more than 800. Notwithstanding that, I hear the Deputy's point regarding special emergency arrangements being unregulated. I want to be clear that Tusla has done an awful lot of work to ensure all of those SEAs are now regulated. They are either directly under the remit of Tusla itself or are fully regulated themselves.  We are very conscious of the excellent work that is done by the voluntary sector. We want to ensure it continues doing that work. I will go into the budget mindful of the need to again seek the maximum funding possible for Tusla to allow it to support everything that falls within its remit, including the voluntary sector in this instance. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Children in Care"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Disability Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_15","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_21.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  As the Minister of State knows, the Fingal area is one of the youngest areas in the country and Balbriggan is the youngest large town. However, our CDNTs are creaking. Will she give an update on whether the vacancies that have been persistent for the past couple of years have been addressed and where we are in terms of staffing levels for the CDNTs in both Balbriggan and Swords? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  The Government is committed to ensuring that children with disabilities and their families who need early intervention and therapy input can access that support in a timely way. That commitment is reflected in the sizeable investment in disability services. In this year's budget alone, more than \u20ac3.8 billion has been allocated for disability services, which is an increase of \u20ac1.8 billion since 2020. As part of the budget process, funding was also secured for additional posts in children's disability network teams, with further investment to fund 150 posts for teams across the country. That investment builds on a 28% increase in staffing levels nationwide from October 2023 to October 2025.  Services in the Dublin north county integrated healthcare area, which is the Deputy's area, are delivered through the two CDNTs she mentioned, both of which are under the Central Remedial Clinic, CRC. To support service development and respond to increasing demand, additional staffing resources have been allocated by the HSE in recent years to the CRC. In 2026, the CRC received approval for development posts across both CDNTs, comprising 1.5 posts for Balbriggan and two posts for Swords. Two of those posts been allocated to behaviour support services, with the remaining posts allocated to speech and language therapy. The CRC was also allocated two full-time assistant therapy posts last year to support therapists and enhance service delivery across both teams.  The Deputy consistently advocates for the Fingal area. It is a fast-growing and young community. To drive further improvements, not just in Fingal but across the country, a dedicated disability workforce strategy is being worked on by the HSE and will be published this year. The strategy will help to meet growing service demands and address recruitment and retention challenges across specialist disability services, including CDNTs such as those in the Deputy's area. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  I very much welcome the investment in disability services, funding for additional posts and the allocation for behavioural supports and speech and language therapy. However, when I look at the raw figures, I see that every single post for Balbriggan is underfunded. We are supposed to have six occupational therapists but there are only five; instead of five speech and language therapists, we only have 3.6; there are two physiotherapists rather than four; and we have two psychologists instead of four. It is a similar picture for Swords, with only one psychologist in place instead of four. As the Minister of State knows, early intervention is absolutely key to addressing the issues we are discussing and to supporting children and their families. While posts have been allocated, we do not have people in post. As I repeatedly highlight, it is absolutely essential that Fingal be prioritised for posts at CDNT level. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  In Balbriggan, 81% of posts are filled but the figure for Swords is only 52%. That is why we are doing so much work on our recruitment and retention strategies. I pay tribute to the staff in both CDNTs for the huge progress they have made. In recent years, there has been a significant increase in the total number of CDNTs across the HSE Dublin and North East region, which includes north-west Dublin, north Dublin, Cavan, Monaghan and Louth. There has been a huge increase in the number of children on open caseloads, that is, the children being seen by our CDNTs. There also has been a reduction in the number of children on CDNT waiting lists. At the end of March, across the region, that number was down substantially from the previous year, from 3,672 to 1,908. The number of children waiting over 12 months on CDNT waiting lists is also reducing. We are focusing on delivering much-needed therapies to children in Fingal and across the region. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  I welcome the reductions. I really do not profess to know the science behind this but there is movement of children from CDNT lists to primary care and there is movement of children on CDNT lists from Balbriggan to Swords. I am not really sure why all of that happens, but I want to make sure that the children and families who need the therapies are getting them. While numbers look like they are reducing, I am not sure that the children have actually got the therapies they have sought.  The other thing I would like to raise is the fact of the allocations generally. I know the Minister of State said that some new posts had been allocated, but given the demographics and the rapidly growing area that Fingal is, will the Minister of State tell me how often the allocations will be updated and reviewed and are they sufficient for the demographics of the area? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  Now that we have a single point of access for the HSE, that will have a huge impact and it will mean that there will be no wrong door. If a child goes to primary care and should be on a CDNT list or vice versa , they will not be put back to the start of the list again. That is a whole-of-HSE approach. The strategy we are working on at the moment is our HSE resourcing strategy. This will be about making sure we are putting the right resources in the right places. It has been very positive for the Deputy\u2019s area in that 3.5 new roles have been created this year alone. That builds on the two new roles allocated last year. This year we have funding to deliver 150 new posts across the country in our CDNT teams and we are in discussions at the moment in terms of the Estimates for next year and we hope to be able to build on that. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Disability Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 7 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_23","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_23.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  In 2024, parties were falling over themselves, as we know, including the Minister\u2019s, promising parents \u20ac200 a month childcare. The latest Fianna F\u00e1il meeting was talking about \u20ac786 per month, possibly, later on this year, so it will be like \u20ac200 a week will be nearer the mark. However, the real problem we have is childcare provision. The private childcare model is simply not working for parents. With so many more providers falling out of the sector, we need a public model. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  Perhaps the Deputy was not in the Chamber earlier when we spoke about the progress that has been made towards the \u20ac200. As I said, we have published phase 1 of the action plan and phase 2 is under way. We have made some progress. For example, we made the announcement recently in terms of the maximum fee caps. For the vast majority of people who are availing of childcare services of less than 50 hours, and this is the cohort paying the highest fees, that payment will reduce to \u20ac183 per week.  We have also confirmed that 25% of families are already on the \u20ac200 or paying less than \u20ac200 a month, or \u20ac50 a week. We have also increased the thresholds to gain the maximum in terms of the national childcare subsidy. We are on the journey. We said it would be committed to and delivered over the lifetime of the Government in terms of \u20ac200, and we are on that journey and we are in the early stages of this Government presently.  Specifically in terms of the State-led model or, as the Deputy referred to it, the public provision, the Government is committed to undertaking a broad consultation and to publishing phase 2 of the action plan on an affordable, high-quality, accessible early childhood education and care system, with State-led facilities adding capacity for the first time, noting that the plan will enhance parental choice through ongoing support for public, private and community provision as well as childminders. Shaping the Future, the early years action plan phase 1, was published in December of 2025 and sets out measures to achieve key programme for Government commitments on the affordability, which I have already mentioned, quality and accessibility of early learning and care and school-age childcare over the course of 2026. This includes a broad-based consultation which has been under way during the first half of 2026. The consultation resulted in 11,000 responses initially to the online survey, with 56 local consultation events held across the country, engagement with children to ascertain their views and a national consultation event, which is due to take place later in the year. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  The problem is that the private childcare model is being heavily subsidised by the State, but even with these subsidies it is simply not working. Discovery Montessori in Castleknock has written to TDs, for example, in my area. It is the latest childcare provider saying that the core funding model cannot work for it. The fee freezes mean that it would not be able to meet its costs in wages, utilities, insurance, etc. I do not have a way of checking out all of those claims, but what I will say is that there is no way we can provide quality childcare with decent pay under the private model. The Minister used to be Minister for education. We need preschool to be provided in the same way that primary and secondary are, underpinned by the State, with childcare workers trained by the State and given decent pay and conditions to attract them into the profession. We know it is an horrifically unstable profession and very badly paid - female-centred, as usual. I know there is a consultation but the Minister needs to look at that long-term strategy. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  To be fair, I agree with the Deputy in terms of issues she has raised, such as that of pay, for example. It is for that reason that \u20ac45 million was ring-fenced last year and will be this year to improve the pay for workers, notwithstanding the fact that the State is not the employer here, and the Deputy has made that point very eloquently, However, the State is stepping in. How that is divvied up is independent of the Minister and the Department and that work is under way. Over two years, \u20ac90 million being put on the table by Government is a significant amount of money in terms of wages.  On the action plan and the State led model, this is the first time the State has ever stepped in to provide a State-led model. We have said that this year, for the first time, eight different facilities will be provided for across the country to meet demand in the area and they will be not-for-profit. We will learn a huge amount from this first year as to how we might be able to move forward, but this is an important first step. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruth Coppinger  I do get that it is the first step but it is a very slow process. It needs to be a lot more ambitious and radical. It took long enough for a realisation that the State needed to lead on childcare in Ireland. In other countries, it is par for the course. Things like training schools have to be set up where people would be guaranteed decent pay and conditions. It is appalling what many childcare workers are paid. It would be good if the State was able to underwrite it in the same way it does for education, by keeping electricity and insurance costs down, because that is what is breaking an awful lot of the private childcare providers. By the way, there are a lot of excellent private childcare providers. It is not their fault. A lot of them obviously love children, while others are just doing it as a big business. I hope that they could be incorporated into the system because obviously people would not be excluded. We cannot move forward unless there is a huge increase in the number of staff and buildings available. Schools can also be used much more than they are. After school hours the premises are all there. A lot of parents have raised that, and schools are saying \"No\" when they are asked. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  The Deputy is correct when she says it is about having the staff, the premises and a sufficient number of places available at costs that are affordable to parents. There are at least three key elements here that have to be achieved. There is no point in achieving one if we are not achieving the other two. I take the Deputy's point in relation to schools and she is right. I have worked the vast majority of my life in schools. It is part of the programme for Government that we would look at, for example, where new schools are being built, that there would be opportunities for childcare facilities to be included. I agree 100% about facilities that could be made available after school hours. These are State premises so there should be opportunities there as well and all of that is being looked at.  I acknowledge, as the Deputy did, that there are excellent private providers. The purpose of what we are doing here in the first instance with the State-led model is to work alongside where there is provision, and where nobody has stepped in and additional provision is required, the State would step in. It is not an either-or.  Eight buildings are being developed this year and next year we are hoping to go a step further. Where we may do so, we will build. We will have to see how we go forward, but it is an innovative and positive step forward. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_24","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aisling Dempsey","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_24.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  T\u00e1 an ch\u00e9ad cheist eile in ainm an Teachta Eamon Scanlon ach t\u00e1 s\u00e9 tar \u00e9is an Teachta Aisling Dempsey a ainmni\u00fa chun \u00ed a th\u00f3g\u00e1il. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aisling Dempsey","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aisling Dempsey  I want to ask the Minister to outline the current and future actions that are being taken to reduce the cost of childcare for parents across the country. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I thank Deputy Dempsey. I have always made it clear that the \u20ac200-per-month programme for Government commitment is to be achieved over the lifetime of this Government. We did discuss this earlier. Shaping the Future: The Early Years Action Plan, phase 1 report, was published last December and we have now moved on to phase 2 of the action plan report. That is very much focusing on consultation and drawing in the opinions, thoughts and lived experience of people who are in the sector, such as parents and others who have an interest in this area.  The consultation process has been really significant. We were really pleased that over 11,000 people engaged online with the survey. There were 56 local consultations held right across the country. They were on the ground, as it were. I want to acknowledge the work of the City and County Childcare Committees in that respect. There was also, very importantly, an engagement with children. It was done in art form but it was important that the views of children would be solicited and harnessed. There will also be a national consultation event which will take place later this year.  Results of this consultation, phase 2, and the additional analysis, will inform how we move forward from 2027 through to 2029. The fee-freeze and maximum fee caps required for core funding have been key to the progress in recent years in making early learning and care and school-age childcare services more affordable. The 2026 actions on affordability will include further reductions in some of the highest fees paid by parents by lowering the maximum fees that core funding partner services can charge. In addition, from autumn 2026 we will reduce out-of-pocket costs for lower-income families through the national childcare scheme, NCS.  The measures we are introducing include an increase to the lower base or income threshold of the income-assessed subsidy from \u20ac26,000 to \u20ac34,000, and on the upper end increasing it from \u20ac60,000 to \u20ac68,000, to extend income-assessed subsidies to more families. An increase to the multiple child deduction, MCD, component of the income-assessed subsidy is also being provided for where there are two children under the age of 15. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aisling Dempsey","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aisling-Dempsey.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Aisling Dempsey  I thank the Minister for that update. I really welcome the maximum fee cap the Minister mentioned that is coming in September and will cap those fees at \u20ac183.70. That is a real tangible step for families to achieving really affordable childcare. Families that are facing those highest fees will see the money back in their pockets. Where are those services that will benefit the most from that? Are there many of those families in Meath that will see a reduction in their fees? The Minister mentioned the \u20ac200-per-month commitment in the programme for Government. Like many people, I knew it would take the lifetime of this Government to achieve that. Is the Minister confident that in the next budget there will be more of a positive and significant change that will make childcare more affordable? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I want to acknowledge Deputy Dempsey's personal engagement with me specifically on the areas of early years and childcare and in particular the costs. She can be absolutely assured that we are going into this budget seeking the maximum funding we can to advance the ambition. It is a very clear ambition that is in the programme for Government around the \u20ac200-per-month cost, or the \u20ac50-per-week. Also part of that is ensuring there is sufficiency of funding that there are enough places available so parents are catered for and also that there are core funding supports available, whether that is for staff, providers or whatever the case might be.  I want to reference the maximum fee caps. That is very significant. These are the cohort of people who are paying the most fees. Once they have the national childcare subsidies included, it will reduce from \u20ac198 per week to \u20ac183.70 per week. Other elements we have already referenced are the thresholds for the income-assessed subsidy support. Again, that is very significant. The figures specifically for County Meath I will have to find separately for the Deputy but I will make sure she gets them. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_25","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Early Childhood Care and Education","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_25","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_25.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  The early childhood care and education scheme, ECCE, is transformative for children, particularly those from low-income families and disadvantaged backgrounds. The State now offers two free years of pre-school, 15 hours per week and three hours per day. Ninety-six percent of children take it up. The Government has said it wants to get that to 100%. Why are we allowing the imposition of commercial rates on ECCE services and on ECCE-only services, which could potentially close them down? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I thank Deputy Currie. She is correct when she says that 96% is regarded as a very high uptake of the ECCE services, but it is our aspiration to reach 100%. I am aware that a number of ECCE-only services have been receiving rates-payable notifications from their local authorities. The Department, and others, have previously advised the sector that ECCE-only services are exempt from paying commercial rates under paragraph 10 of Schedule 4 of the Valuation Act 2001.  Given the importance of early learning and childcare for children, families and communities across the country, I am giving this matter my full attention. I have engaged with my Cabinet colleague, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne, on a number of occasions. On foot of this engagement, the Department of children and the Department of housing have jointly sought formal advice from the Office of the Attorney General on this matter. As the Deputy is aware, this is not within the gift of the Department of children; we have no role whatsoever in relation to rates. It is a matter outside of our remit. However, I am very pleased that the Department of housing has agreed on a joint submission to the Office of the Attorney General.  The Office of the Attorney General is now looking at this particular issue and has informed the Department that it has sought advice from external counsel on this matter, very specifically. On receipt of this advice, I will continue to engage with the Attorney General and the Minister, Deputy Browne, with a view to achieving a resolution as soon as possible.  Deputy Currie is correct that it is really important we get absolute clarity on this matter. It is a concern and a worry to those who are providing the ECCE services here. We are giving this every consideration. I want to express my gratitude to the Attorney General who has sought this external advice. Officials in the Department are also engaging with colleagues in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage to explore the solutions that might be available to rectify this situation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  When Tailte \u00c9ireann was before the housing committee a couple of weeks ago, I raised this matter with the representatives. They said they had taken legal advice via the Chief State Solicitor's Office and the Office of the Attorney General and it was unequivocal that ECCE services are rateable and are inherently operating for profit. This means that all ECCE services, including 100% Government-funded stand-alone ECCE services that receive no parental fees, are fair game for commercial rates, which in turn means that commercial rates for ECCE services are coming to every county in Ireland. Three-hour preschool services that do not charge parents any fees are going to be liable for commercial rates. I do not believe they should be treated like commercial businesses. I fear this is going to close down services. It is going to reduce childcare places. ECCE-only services, I believe, are already in decline. Some of these services have reached out to me saying they are potentially closing in June and will not reopen in September. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  As I previously outlined, there was a clear understanding. The Department is very clear, based on correspondence and the understanding it had received previously from its sister Department, that ECCE-only services were exempt from paying commercial rates under paragraph 10 of Schedule 4 of the Valuation Act 2001. Notwithstanding that, it is not within the gift of the Department to set commercial rates for early learning and childcare service providers. However, I want to acknowledge that there has been an absolute openness from the Minister for housing to seek a resolution here. There has been a particular willingness from the Attorney General to engage in this matter. Indeed, the Attorney General has confirmed that he is seeking external advice on this. I want to be able to furnish at the earliest possible point information to the early learning and childcare sector and, indeed, this House on the update we receive from the Attorney General at his earliest convenience. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  I thank the Minister. I know she is not responsible for this and it is something that has really come to light. The legal implications of the valuation tribunal and a case in the High Court have had an impact since 2024 but there is an urgency about this. Legislation seems to be required. I have worked on legislation. Will the Minister consider working with me on that to deal with this in an urgent way? Part of that legislation also includes sessional services that offer 30 minutes of care to support parents with flexibility but they are being penalised for it. As part of that legislation, I have included that if they operate those 30 minutes at ECCE rates of \u20ac4.60 per hour, they too should be exempt. This is affecting services in four counties but it is coming to more counties. I have seen bills ranging from \u20ac1,000 to \u20ac10,000 for ECCE-only services. These services are 100% Government-funded. Why would the Government give them funding to operate and be viable and then, through another arm of the State, charge them commercial rates? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  It is important to confirm again that we need to take this step by step. We are currently engaging with the Department of housing, the Minister for housing and the Attorney General to see if there is any avenue to resolve this matter in the context of current legislation. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Currie  Okay. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  That is the first step. I appreciate what the Deputy is doing; I absolutely do but I will take it step by step. I will wait for the adjudication of the Attorney General. He has given it his personal attention. He is also seeking external advice and we will see what we can do within the current legislation.  I am also aware that a number of childminding services have also received rates payable notifications from their local authorities and that has also been a huge concern. I have also stated previously that under no circumstances do I believe childminders should have their homes assessed for commercial rates. We did receive from Tailte \u00c9ireann a positive response where it confirmed our previous understanding that childminders are only likely to be charged rates if they have space dedicated solely to their childminding business and that the large majority of childminders who use the normal family homes in the home for childminding are, therefore, unlikely to be charged any rates at all. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Early Childhood Care and Education"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_26","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Disability Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_26","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_26.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  I welcome the new autism assessment and intervention pathway protocol. It is an effort to bring greater consistency as to how autism is assessed across services. The success of this reform will depend on whether autistic people and their families feel that it reflects their lived experience. The Minister of State might please advise us as to what engagement took place with the autism community in developing the protocol. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  As the Deputy will be aware, on 26 May, the HSE launched the new autism assessment and intervention pathway protocol, or the autism protocol. Once implemented, it will apply to all HSE and HSE-funded providers, as well as private providers. I am delighted that extensive collaboration by Government underpinned the development of the autism protocol. My Department and I remain committed to ongoing engagement with autistic individuals, families and representative organisations to continue to improve access to services.  The protocol introduces a three-tiered approach to autism assessment, reflecting the evidence and lived experience that some presentations are easier to identify than others. It matches the level of assessment to the complexity of each case, as determined by clinicians. The pathway is specific to autism assessment and includes differential diagnosis where necessary, along with developing a formulation to better understand the person\u2019s lived experience and the support they require.  The autism protocol was developed over five years. It was developed with input from people with lived experience, civil society, clinicians across multiple disciplines and service leaders from the disability, primary care and mental health sectors.  The service improvement programme board for the autistic community is a national HSE governance body that provides oversight, leadership and accountability for autism assessment and intervention services, including the autism protocol. When the service improvement programme board for the autistic community was established, a national expression of interest ensured representation from individuals with lived experience, including young people, adults and family members. The board included senior operational and clinical decision-makers, academic support and representatives with lived experience as equal contributors.  As the programme progressed, two working groups were created. The assessment and pathways working group, which reports to the service improvement programme board for the autistic community, included three representatives with lived experience and clinicians from psychology, occupational therapy, speech and language therapy, public health nursing and social work. It also included senior managers, family members and leaders, and they helped shape it. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  I thank the Minister of State. In regard to going forward and making sure that the lived experience of autistic people and their families included and that we learn from the experience they go through in this new process, can she confirm that there will be that ongoing structured engagement around any reforms, changes or tweaks made to the protocol, as may be required from the process? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  Absolutely. I am completely happy to say that to the Deputy. As she said in her opening remarks, the success of this depends on people's lived experience. That is exactly what we have used to help shape it. We also had expert input from a clinical advisory group as well as that assessment and pathways working group within the service improvement programme board for the autistic community. That was to ensure there was also a clinical perspective on this.  The assessment and pathways working group produced a comprehensive report. It was over 250 pages long and it outlined the new assessment approach. There were two versions of that protocol that were shared through workshops and webinars. Two consultation sessions took place in March with civil society, advocacy groups and people with lived experience. Feedback was provided to participants.  To be really clear, our approach, that of the Minister, Deputy Foley and I, and of our Department and the HSE, is to include people with lived experience. \"Nothing about us without us\" is something we are very proud to stand over. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Grace Boland  I know the Minister of State touched on it earlier but my area has one of the longest waiting lists for assessments of need. What parents at home want to know is whether this protocol will help them get assessments and therapies? Will it make a difference to them? She might please help me give some comfort to families at home. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  Absolutely. This process is all about families, children and ensuring that we have appropriate and faster access to the most appropriate clinical decisions. This is also in response to the fact that 40% of assessments, of children who are going through assessments of need, are being diagnosed as autistic. As a result of that, through five years of collaboration, hard work and clinical expertise, this protocol has been designed as part of the response to that. That is not just in Ireland. The OECD finds that there has been, overall, almost a 10% increase in autistic presentations. This is to support that but to clarify, it is totally different, distinct and independent from the assessments of need process and there is no change to anybody's statutory right to an assessment of need. What we are trying to do here is provide a quicker and clearer access pathway through our existing services, whether it is primary care, CDNTs or CAMHS teams, for people who are presenting as potentially autistic. We have three tiers as part of that protocol. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Question No. 12 taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Disability Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_27.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  In line with the requirements of the Child Care Act 1991 (Early Years Services) Regulations 2016 and the Child Care Act 1991 (Early Year Services) (Registration of School Age Services) Regulations 2018, those wishing to operate an early years service or a school-age service are required to register with Tusla for the purposes of regulation.  As of the end of quarter 1 2026, there were 3,941 early years services and 3,032 school-age services registered with Tusla in line with these statutory provisions.  The Department is in the process of drafting revised regulations for school-age childcare services, building on the initial 2018 registration regulations. There is no regulatory requirement in relation to qualifications and health welfare and development of the child in the Child Care Act 1991 and the regulations 2018. Tusla currently only inspect school-age services where risks are highlighted or concerns raised.  In relation to early years services, there are important caveats regarding the data requested by the Deputy. In that context, the regulatory requirements for Garda vetting, staff qualifications and ensuring the basic needs of children in early years settings are set out in regulation 9, management and recruitment, and regulation 19, health, welfare and development of the child, of the 2016 early years services regulations. In the context of regulation 19, the health, welfare and development of the child relate to a range of practices, including basic and individual care needs, relationships between adults and children and providing an effective programme and an environment that supports learning and development. Due to the nature of the statutory instrument in which the 2016 regulations are set out, these requirements are outlined only as specific individual components of regulations 9 and 19, both of which comprise a number of additional components and regulatory elements, the number of which Tusla is aware. On this basis, the information I will outline relates to compliance non-attainment with regulation 9(2)(c), Garda vetting, and regulation 9(4), staff qualifications, and the entirety of regulation 19, health, welfare and development of child.  Separately, as the regulatory requirements for staffing ratios comprise all components of regulation 11, staffing levels, I will outline compliance non-attainment in respect of that regulation, which addresses this element of the Deputy\u2019s query. I will get to the specifics in my next contribution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I will yield to the Minister in order to allow her to conclude. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  Gorgeous. For ease of reference, a full copy of the 2016 regulations is available to download from Tusla's website. The data provided by Tusla is in respect of inspections as opposed to services. This is because some services may have been inspected more than once. That is an important consideration. The figures I am about to provide relate to inspections, not services.  Over 3,500 inspections of early years services took place over the period. The level of non-compliance by regulation at the end of the inspection process, post submission of corrective action and preventive action response from the provider, was as follows. Out of the 3,500 inspections, there were five non-compliant inspections relating to Garda vetting, 60 relating to qualifications, ten relating to staffing levels and 14 relating to the health, welfare and development of the child. That refers to care needs, relationships or effective programme and environment.  On Garda vetting, immediate action notices were issued in relation to all five services, and the registered provider committed to removing them from having access to children until vetting is in place. The inspectorate records all non-adherence to Garda vetting and follows up with the relevant service.  In relation to qualifications, there are a number of factors relating to non-compliance. I will explain those in my next contribution. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I tabled this question in order to find out what is going on with all of our childcare facilities and to ensure that best practice obtains right across the country. I am very happy to hear that after 3,500 inspections and in the context of the figures the Minister provided, we have a very low level of non-compliance. I am sure the Minister will agree, however, that even one instance of non-compliance is a concern. I know she will come back to me with further information on this.  When we get the figures and have time to study them, I am sure we will all have further questions. The reason for tabling this question was to ensure that there is some regulation of this important childcare sector. The fact that the number of issues identified is good in one sense. Without the detail behind them, however, we cannot comment any further. I am glad that the figures relating to the 3,500 inspections are on the low side. I again stress that one instance of non-compliance is one too many. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I will add some information in order to provide flavour. In the context of qualifications, there are a number of factors relating to why people might be non-compliant. Staff may have some component modules of a level 5 completed and may be in the process of studying further. Some staff from abroad may not yet have applied to the Department for qualification recognition. They may have a qualification but are in the process of applying for recognition. Some Irish staff may not have applied to the Department for qualification equivalency. They could be coming from a different background and may be looking for equivalency.  In the case of Kildare, as I know that is of interest to the Deputy, the level of non-compliance at the end of the inspection process, post submission of corrective action and preventive action response from the provider, was zero for Garda vetting, zero for qualifications and zero issues in respect of staffing levels. There was one issue regarding the health, welfare and development of the child. That could be for a variety of different reasons. The early years inspectorate requires registered providers to submit a corrective action and a preventive action, with supporting evidence, to address all instances of non-compliance identified in the draft inspection report issued to them. If the corrective actions and-or preventive actions do not address the non-compliance, the registered provider may be subject to the escalation and-or enforcement processes. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  That is why we need more childcare in Kildare. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  There you go. I thought it was a very good report. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  Absolutely. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_28","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Childcare Services","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_28","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_28.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I also want to raise with the Minister the issue of the childminding regulations. I understand that the review of the regulations is imminent. We need to ensure that we get the regulations right. That is what we all want. It is very much what childminders want. Can the Minister provide further information on when the review will take place? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  The Deputy has raised this matter consistently. I am very happy to confirm that the review of the initial implementation of the childminding regulations, which will be managed by an external company, launched on Friday of last week with an open call for submissions. The review will include consultation with childminders and other stakeholders and will provide an important opportunity to learn lessons from initial experiences with the regulations. In addition to hearing from childminders who have not yet registered, it is important that the review adequately captures and benefits from the experiences of those who have registered and been through the registration process and who have operated under the new regulations. A consultation survey will follow the call for submissions, in addition to focus groups, stakeholder interviews and case studies. This is the initial step where there is a general call for submissions. When that closes, further work that will involve stakeholder interviews, case studies, focus groups and a survey will be done.  The scope of the review is broader than initially outlined in the national action plan for childminding and will now examine the effectiveness of supports made available to assist with the registration of childminders, as well as the barriers to registration and regulatory compliance, including financial and information barriers. The National Action Plan for Childminding 2021-2028 set out a pathway for the extension of regulation to childminders. A key objective of the national action plan is to enable parents who use childminders to also benefit from State subsidies through the national childcare scheme.  The Childcare Support Act 2018, which provides a statutory basis for the national childcare scheme, specifies that only Tusla-registered childminders are eligible to participate in the scheme. The limitation of public funding schemes to Tusla-registered providers helps to ensure that public funding is provided where there is assurance of the quality of provision. The regulation of childminding services is critical to the safeguarding of children. Childminders acknowledge that too. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I thank the Minister. I cannot believe after all of my questions on this, the review began on Friday and I did not even realise. I thank the Minister for that important information. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  No worries. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  Obviously, I will follow up on that tomorrow.  It is very clear that there is an issue when you look at the number of childminders who have registered with Tusla. It should be of concern to all of us and that is why this review is so important. I do not know if the Minister has up to date figures. The most recent figure was, perhaps, 160. The Minister can correct me if I am wrong. Based on that figure, the review is important but it is really important there is some level of a communication campaign with clear information on exactly what the regulations look like and what they will mean. There is confusion and we need greater clarity, particularly clarity on the inspection. That is really what many, not all, childminders fear. Any of us would be concerned about a stranger coming into our homes. I ask for that to be looked at. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I agree with the Deputy. It is a cause for concern. It is for that reason I wanted to move it to the earliest point possible, accepting the Deputy has articulated that also. We are in a three-year transitioned period up to September 2027. The numbers are low. The exact figure is fewer than 200. The Deputy is right in that there is a body of work to be done. I want this to work for childminders. They are a really important element of service provision, along with all the other elements of service that are out there.  We will have a great opportunity to hear from those who have gone through the process, but also from those who have not gone through the process on why they have not and what the issues might be. I am really encouraging them to have their say and to participate in the review, either in the open call initially or through the stakeholder engagement, the case study, the online surveys or whatever the case may be. In the interim, if there are childminders who have specific questions, I ask them to engage with the city and county childcare committees. There is a designated person in each of the city and county childcare committees charged with the responsibility of supporting childminders. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  This is certainly an issue on which we are all very much in agreement, not least because we desperately need to retain the childminders we have and we need more of them. We have heard anecdotally, particularly through the media, about childminders who have decided to end providing that much-needed service. The Minister and I know the greater level of flexibility, particularly in rural areas, it provides over an 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. or 6 p.m. formal childcare setting. That is really important, particularly in rural areas where there may not be that level of capacity or formal childcare settings and, therefore, childminders become part of the family and such a significant part of a child's life. That is why it is special and we should seek to retain these childminders in as many numbers as we can.  How wide is the open call for submissions going to be? How are we going to ensure that every single childminder in the State knows that it is happening and knows they have a way to have their say? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  That call has been open since last Friday and will remain so until 20 July. There will be strong communication through the city and county childcare committees and we will do all that we can. To be clear, we are going to afford a number of different opportunities for engagement. This is the first. There will be focus groups, stakeholder engagement, online surveys and lots of other opportunities. We want the maximum engagement.  To reiterate, we are really keen that parents who avail of childminders will ultimately have an opportunity to benefit from the national childcare scheme as well. That would be a huge help to parents. Therefore, we need to have the childminders registered. They have nothing to be afraid of. They are providing an excellent service. They are rooted in the community. They are much loved, as the Deputy outlined, by the children who use the service and by the families. They are a very important additional element to the offering that is out there. I ask people to engage in this process. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Childcare Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_29","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Guardians Ad Litem","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_29","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_29.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  It is apt to raise this question on the national service now that it is under way. Does the Minister have any figures for the number of practising guardians ad litem , GALs, who have signed up and will now be part of the national service? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  The guardian ad litem national service has now been established following commencement of the Child Care (Amendment) Act 2022. This signifies a major step forward in delivering a high-quality, consistent service for children, grounded in children\u2019s rights. There is a 12-month transition period for existing guardians, as set out in the legislation. This means that the GALs already appointed by the courts can continue in their current roles. Of the 107 guardians currently practising, 95 guardians ad litem applied and were successful in their application to avail of the transitional arrangements. This means that they may continue as appointed guardians from 23 June 2026 for 12 months, as set out in the legislation. All of these continuing appointments have been subject to updated checks. This is to ensure that the best interests of all children requiring a guardian are the focus of such measures, as intended by the legislation.  The guardian ad litem national service has received approval from the Department of public expenditure for 92 posts, with 65 posts allocated as full-time employed guardians. Recruitment for these roles opened in December 2025 and the competition was conducted in partnership with the Public Appointments Service. There was strong interest in the role from both currently practising guardians and other appropriately qualified professionals. Thirty-five of the current practising guardians were successful in the selection process. Five employed guardians commenced employment with the national service on 22 June. A further 31 successful candidates are at contracting stage, of which 25 are current practising guardians. A further 25 candidates are going through the clearance stage with the Public Appointments Service. The objective is to have the 65 guardian posts offered in place by end of 2026.  The guardian ad litem national service has engaged with existing guardians ad litem around the management of existing court orders during the period of transition. This covered standards of conduct and reviews of cases. Newly employed guardians will benefit from training on similar material at the outset of their employment with the national service. The Child Care (Amendment) Act 2022 also provides scope for setting and revising standards and practice on the function, training, record-keeping and conduct of the guardians. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I thank the Minister. I am glad she referenced record-keeping at the end of her contribution because an issue has been brought to my attention about the records of children. The new service is not going to seek any existing records of children and is not going to hold any records moving forward, which I find very odd. There will be children who will grow up who will have GALs. They might have one or they might have a number of them throughout their time. When those children get into adulthood, they may seek their records, information or correspondence - a letter that they wrote to a judge of the day or whatever it may be. All of that information is really important to them, especially for children who, regardless of the reason they end up in the care of the State, have some level of trauma. That record-keeping by the national service is important and I do not understand why it cannot be retained and managed within the national service. That may be something the Minister will look at. It was new to me, certainly. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I thank the Deputy. The Act provides scope for, in the first instance, setting and revising standards and practice as regards the function, training, record-keeping and conduct of guardians in their roles. The national service will keep these issues under consideration as it completes its work during the first 12 months from June 2026. On records, it is my understanding that cards or any kind of correspondence of that nature would be kept by Tusla. Anything pertaining to the court case is a different matter. I can get the Deputy further clarification on that.  I acknowledge the great work of guardians. There is no doubt about it that they are advocates for the children. They speak for the children and first, last and always we want to the voice of children to be heard. This is a very positive step forward. I wish the director, the team, the guardians and everyone else working there every success with the work. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  I believe that the Minister would agree and acknowledge that legal representation has been a major issue and one that GALs themselves have brought forward. It is something that they are genuinely concerned about it and something I have raised with the Minister many times. Given that it genuinely has been an issue, will it be looked at and data kept in terms of where legal representation from a GAL is sought and either approved or not approved? I have asked many times and I still do not have an answer as to why we would remove the guaranteed legal representation for a GAL standing in a court of law in which they may never have stood before, usually against Tusla and its representation and a parent and their legal representation. A GAL who has never been in a court in their life could be standing there with no legal representation. When I put this to the head of the national service, she told me that if there was an issue one day in court, the service would look at it again. However, what are the consequences of that day in court? That child could be sent here, there or anywhere. Looking at it the next day really is not good enough, given the consequences that this can have on a child's life. Will data be held in relation to that legal representation, given that it genuinely has been an issue? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Norma Foley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Norma-Foley.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Norma Foley  I accept that queries have been raised around legal representation. I wish to confirm that I have met with the directorate and there is an in-house legal team of a number of very highly qualified individuals with the appropriate legal background who make themselves available at all times for any kind of legal advice that might be required. I have met the head of legal in that respect and she has ensured me that she and her team are available at all times.  There is also very specific legal representation available should a guardian ad litem be bringing a case, be party to a case or whatever the case may be. It is very reassuring that the legal team is available at all times. For the first time, there will be legal representation in each of the areas covered by the courts. That is also very important. If representation is needed at the last minute, it is available. I accept the concerns that have been raised but the directorate has worked hard to ensure those fears are allayed. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Questions Nos. 16 to 23, inclusive, taken with Written Answers. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Guardians Ad Litem"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_30","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Disabilities Assessments","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_22","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_30","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_30.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Well, we actually did make it to this question. I requested information on the number of children currently waiting on assessments of need for longer than the statutory waiting time in each regional health area in tabular form. I want to get a notion of where we are. We spoke about the new autism protocol earlier but the fact is that this figure is far too big. We need to deal with this. Parents are not getting assessments and therapies for their children. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  The Deputy is absolutely correct. The delivery of an effective and efficient assessment of need system is a priority for the Government. The Department and the HSE are working intensively to address delays in the provision of assessments of need to children and their families. It is important to reiterate that children do not require an assessment of need report to access health services, such as primary care, children\u2019s disability network teams or mental health services, or education supports.  Demand for assessments of need has increased significantly in recent years. This reflects both the increase in population and the increase in the number of families exploring all options to access services for their child. Over 13,000 applications for assessments of need were received last year, with over 3,800 applications made in the first three months of this year. This demand is absolutely outpacing the capacity of the system to respond. As a result, 21,782 applications were overdue for completion at the end of March. I gave the Deputy that figure earlier. To break that figure down by regional health area: the figure in HSE Dublin and North East is 6,608; in HSE Dublin and Midlands, it is 7,772; in HSE Dublin and South East, it is 3,204; in HSE South West, it is 2,004; in HSE Mid West, it is 595; and in HSE West and North West, it is 1,599. These numbers are really stark. It is really important to remember that behind every number is a child or young person. It is not acceptable that children and families have to wait so long for assessment of need applications to be processed.  This Government, the Minister, Deputy Foley, and I have made it very clear that change is needed. There has been progress in the past two years with a noticeable increase in the number of completed applications. Over 5,900 assessment of need reports were completed in 2025, which is a 43% increase on the previous year and an 85% increase on the year previous to that. This progress has been and will continue to be assisted by the assessment of need targeted waitlist initiative, which funds the procurement of clinical assessments from private providers to inform the assessment of need process. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  It goes without saying that the figure of 21,782 should be shocking. Unfortunately, it is not. The figure in my own area, HSE Dublin and North East, is 6,608. As the Minister of State has said, behind each of these figures is a child and a family. None of this is good enough. We sometimes come in here and talk about CDNTs and the number of unfilled positions. I will work on the basis that the number of vacancies is still in the high 300s. Even if we had double that number, I am not sure the CDNTs would be able to deal with the need that is out there. We have had many interactions in relation to this recently. Many people have bought into the idea of putting the resources where they are needed, which is to say, in school therapies. It is going to be very difficult if we do not look at the whole gamut from assessments right through to therapies. We are constantly trying to change little bits rather than looking at the overall picture and putting in place a framework that delivers for the children and families out there. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  The Deputy is right; the demand is increasing year on year. It has increased quite exponentially in the last five years. As a result, it has been difficult for us to keep up with demand. Our CDNTs around the country do absolutely incredible work not just with regard to assessments of need, but also, importantly, in the delivery of therapies. It is those interventions that parents and children want.  In response to an earlier question of the Deputy's, we spoke about the new autism intervention and pathways protocol. That is another Government investment to ensure we provide access to more timely assessments and more targeted interventions for children and young people across Ireland. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  We have the figures. None of them are good enough. Unfortunately, despite all the initiatives that have been taken, we have not drastically dealt with that figure. That is the frightening part. It is the one right that parents have. It is sometimes the only right they can vindicate through the courts and there is therefore huge emphasis on it. However, as we all know, it does not provide you with the therapies, which are absolutely necessary. I am going back to the idea of putting a system in place across the board. I am worried that, even if we were to recruit all the occupational therapists, speech and language therapists, and psychologists for which there are unfilled positions in the CDNTs, in primary care and in the in-reach teams, which is probably not possible to do without a huge increase in workforce planning, we would still not be able to deliver on the need that is out there. We have to look at this in a far more comprehensive way that relates to how we deal with disabilities across the board. At the UN conference, we discussed the idea of mainstreaming, making reasonable accommodations and allowing full participation for those with disabilities. We need to stop this failure. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Higgins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Emer-Higgins.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Emer Higgins  The Government is absolutely committed to ensuring that this is dealt with in a comprehensive way. Part of our response will be a series of improvements to the assessment of need process to make it more efficient and effective for children and families. Over time, this will lead to a reduction in the waiting time to receive an assessment of need. I thank the Deputy for his work on the Committee on Disability Matters. From that work, he will know that the general scheme of the disability (amendment) Bill has been published on the Department's website. The Deputy's committee has published a report following pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill. The Department is now considering the recommendations. I thank everybody who was involved in those committee hearings and in pulling together that report. A series of recommendations were made and we are now working on these to improve the proposed legislation. A document addressing frequently asked questions has also been published.  Legislation is only part of our response. We also need to enhance the processes, to improve training and to increase administrative support for our HSE assessment officers, who are responsible for the production of the assessment reports. The Department is working really closely with the HSE and with the working groups that are in place to ensure this happens. As the Deputy has said, we need to address the wider issues. That is exactly what was set out in this year's HSE national services plan. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa  Do we have any idea of the timeline for the legislation? "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":" Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Disabilities Assessments"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa)  I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case:  Deputy Pat Buckley - To discuss the lack of school transport for children with intellectual disabilities at a school in Cork,  Deputy Tom Brabazon - To discuss the loss of staff at a school in Priorswood in the context of its new DEIS plus status.  Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss the development of Bunclody Community College, County Wexford.  Deputy Albert Dolan - To discuss the pricing of train tickets between Athenry and Galway.  Deputy Eamon Scanlon - To discuss exceptional staffing pressures at a school in County Sligo.  Deputy Michael Murphy - To discuss the failure to recruit a consultant ophthalmologist in south Tipperary.  Deputy Shane Moynihan - To discuss delays in reimbursement under the cross-border healthcare directive.  Deputy Mark Wall - To discuss the ongoing illegal encampments in the Curragh, County Kildare.  Deputy Gary Gannon - To discuss data collection and sentencing guidelines relating to unprovoked one-punch fatal assaults.  Deputy Donna McGettigan - To discuss the potential loss of 87 jobs and the uncertainty facing 600 students at Carlow College.  Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan - To discuss the reimbursement of a drug (details supplied) and the implementation of the drug reimbursement system as committed to in the programme for Government,  Deputy Pa Daly - To discuss delivery of a new building for a school in County Kerry.  Deputy Colm Burke - To discuss actions to reduce the risk to children who require MRI scans under anaesthetic.  Deputy Rory Hearne - To discuss community safety and policing issues in Ballymun and Finglas in the context of the upcoming Presidency of the Council of the EU.  Deputy Roderic O'Gorman - To discuss health and safety concerns in a school in Chapelizod, Dublin 20.  Deputies David Cullinane and Conor D McGuinness - To discuss the severe childcare services deficit in County Waterford.  Deputies Louis O'Hara, Mair\u00e9ad Farrell and Claire Kerrane - To discuss the underfunding of Galway County Council.  Deputies Darren O'Rourke and Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire - To discuss the need for redress for survivor's of historical abuse at a school.  Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa - To discuss the planned industrial action at Oberstown.  The matters raised by Deputies Donna McGettigan, Eamon Scanlon, Mark Wall, Louis O'Hara, Mair\u00e9ad Farrell and Claire Kerrane have been selected for discussion "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_33","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Third Level Education","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_32","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_33","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marian Harkin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marian-Harkin.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Marian-Harkin.D.2002-06-06","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I want to talk about the job losses at Carlow College, St. Patrick's, and the severe impact on students and the regional workforce. The recent announcement of the phased wind-down and closure of Carlow College over a two-year period marks a devastating blow to higher education in Carlow.  Initially, staff and students expected that the college would merge under the South East Technology University, SETU, umbrella. I recently visited the campus and spoke directly to those affected by this decision. There is genuine shock and disbelief about the closure. There is an attempt from the Government to play down the reality that there may be 87 staff members facing redundancies with a phased termination process beginning as early as August. This decision has come as a shock to staff who were given absolutely no prior consultation or engagement.  There are many questions on this issue. On what date did the Department or SETU formally advise Carlow College's senior management that staff and programmes would not be transferring into SETU? At what point did the Minister notify Carlow College and advise that it engage with staff? Was formal notice given to the Central Applications Office that Carlow College would not be in a position to accept students for the coming academic year? Was an independent valuation conducted on Carlow College's lands and buildings? What were the terms of agreement transferring this multimillion euro asset to SETU? What exactly what the Minister's understanding of the original merger plan? Why did we have a complete pivot on that? Will there be transparency on staff layoffs in August to prevent operational disruption when the semester opens in September? Will there be ring-fenced funding for Carlow College's tailored student supports, which serve an exceptionally diverse and non-traditional student body? Will there be unnecessary duplication of expenditure involved in dismantling an established highly successful infrastructure just to recreate it at SETU? What will happen to those students who are expecting to do a four-year degree and come out with a level 8 qualification who will now only come out with a level 7 and have to do one year less?  According to replies at a meeting of the public accounts committee to Deputy Paul Murphy, there is an asset, which is the buildings, and this will be used to look after staff redundancies. What is the worth of this asset? Why can it not be used to integrate, or at least give the choice to integrate, staff into SETU? The Department claims that student welfare is paramount, yet redundancies will be announced in August - a week before the September term begins. I spoke to students who said that because of the nature and smallness of Carlow College, they were given a chance at the college. This closure is being felt by the neurodivergent community. The smaller class sizes and tight knit, friendly, personalised environment meant that many students with additional needs thrived. This small group learning meant that there was a reduction in sensory overload and academic anxiety compared with larger impersonal university settings. Where will these students find a place where they can thrive and flourish? The planned wind-down of Carlow College requires strict adherence to CORU regulations for students in the BA on applied social studies and the professional social care. This means that the degree programme remains fully accredited and recognised for statutory registration as long as the student completes it within a two-year period. Why are students not told of this sooner, so they may choose to not start in the first place? If a student is entering year two in September, this means that they face a very tight timeline because of the wind-down, which has to be done fully by 2028. A standard four-year BA track cannot be completed on the Carlow campus in its current form. What will happen to those students? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marian Harkin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marian-Harkin.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Marian-Harkin.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy Marian Harkin)  I thank the Deputy. As she will be aware, Carlow College is and has always been, a private and autonomous institution operating outside the publicly funded higher education system. Despite this, it has received substantial State support, including over \u20ac3.1 million in student fee grants, with an annual uplift of \u20ac750,000 in place since 2022. Following repeated requests for additional assistance, an independent review in 2024 identified a deteriorating and ultimately unsustainable financial position. It became clear that without intervention the college was at serious risk of imminent closure, with significant consequences for students, staff and the wider regional education landscape. Through the support of the Minister, Deputy Lawless, and our Department to prevent a disorderly shutdown, SETU agreed in 2025 to engage with Carlow College. An independent mediator was appointed to guide Carlow College through the process. The engagement included extensive analysis and due diligence, culminating in a detailed report delivered to both institutions. The resulting framework is, therefore, a joint proposal arising from sustained and transparent engagement between both parties with Carlow College fully involved throughout and reflecting the preferred option of Carlow College to teach out the existing students and programmes over the next two academic years.  Throughout this period, particular attention has been given to the position of staff. The Minister has consistently emphasised the need for clear and proactive communication with employees. This included direct correspondence in December 2025 urging the college's president to prioritise staff engagement in early 2026. In considering the proposed pathway forward, the priority has been to safeguard the interests of the college community while enabling a fair and transparent process for staff. The agreed plan provides for an orderly wind-down of academic activity over a two-year period finishing in August 2028. What has been agreed between the two parties is a structured and phased teach-out designed to minimise disruption to students and staff. The Minister has continued to engage. Most recently yesterday, he met both autonomous institutions and separately a staff delegation from Carlow College with their union. He is acutely aware of the impact of this announcement on Carlow College and its staff and has asked the college to support them through clear engagement in this process. All local representatives from Carlow and Kilkenny were invited to an online briefing last night to discuss these matters.  A key element of this framework is the planned acquisition and transfer of the college\u2019s land and buildings to SETU at the end of this period. In return, a significant level of State funding, based on an independent valuation, will be provided to Carlow College. This funding will be committed by Carlow College to support its teach-out and staff redundancy costs. These issues will be managed through established representative structures and trade unions. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Donna McGettigan  I hear that this a private entity and the State could not step in, but the State is about to get a multimillion euro campus for free. That is my understanding of this. That does not seem to be clear in any of these discussions. Does the Minister of State even know the cost of this campus? She said there was clear talking with the staff yet conditions were laid down regarding this campus that are not being met. One of the conditions was that staff would be integrated with SETU. That does not seem to be happening. Staff were shocked to discover this, so there was no clear conversation with staff. Losing this campus will affect many students in the future who depend on a small personal environment - a place that they feel they belong and a place for them to flourish. Facility and support staff will return in September with zero clarity regarding their exact workloads, module allocations or scheduling. The sudden exit of specialist experts right at the start of an academic year ensures immediate systemic disruption to lecturing, dissertations, supervision and placement mentoring. Carlow College serves a unique, non-traditional student demographic that the university sector regularly fails to reach.  In the social care cohort, over 80% are non-leaving certificate students. I was one these in a different college, Limerick College of Further Education. I was given a second chance through that college. Carlow College has tailored supports that face the acts. Students have succeeded because of the college's hyper-tailored specialised support staff. Redundancies targeting support personnel will directly trigger high drop-out rates among students with disabilities and those from marginalised backgrounds. The Psychological Society of Ireland and the Irish Association of Social Workers have repeatedly declared a crisis due to critical backlogs in health, education and mental healthcare. Winding down these specific programmes directly starves the south-east region of professionally trained graduates. It will worsen unacceptably long waiting times for vital mental and educational care for vulnerable service users. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marian Harkin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marian-Harkin.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Marian-Harkin.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Marian Harkin  I thank the Deputy.  I believe the framework agreed by the two institutions is a prudent and measured approach that protects the educational attainment and interests of students in the region. Every current learner in Carlow College will be able to complete their studies and graduate as planned without disruption or disadvantage. That commitment of continuity and fairness has guided every step of the process. At the same time, the framework provides the autonomy and responsibilities of Carlow College as a private institution and employer with a long history. Government has every confidence the formal discussions commenced by Carlow College with its staff and staff reps will be carried out in a transparent and forthright manner.  Of course we are concerned about the staff. Our thoughts are with all of them as they deal with the news of the closure of the college and the loss of their employment. Through future expansion and development of programmes in areas of demand, regionally and nationally, there will be opportunities for the highly qualified and experienced staff of the college to apply for job opportunities but, it is important to say, through open competition. The Deputy mentioned social care. The Minister, Deputy Lawless, and his Department are running a new expression of interest across disability therapies and social care to expand provision nationally.  In terms of opportunities for the enhancement of higher education in the Carlow region, the planned transfer of the campus to SETU creates a strong foundation for continued investment in Carlow, ensuring this historic site remains a vibrant hub of learning and opportunity. Under SETU's leadership, there is a clear pathway to strengthen provision, expand access and support regional development. SETU will preserve the use of the site for educational purposes. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Third Level Education"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_34","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"School Enrolments","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_32","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_34","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eamon Scanlon  I wish to highlight an urgent and exceptional situation facing St. Patrick's National School in Calry, County Sligo, which requires immediate and practical intervention to ensure children in this community can access the education they are entitled to. St. Patrick's National School is experiencing unprecedented staffing pressures for the 2026-2027 school year. The school has already pursued the appropriate channels and submitted an appeal to the appeals board for an additional teaching post. Despite presenting a strong case, the appeal was unsuccessful. The school met three of the four criteria required for consideration. The only unmet criterion was the requirement to have enrolled more than 30 junior infants in each of the previous two years. However, this single unmet condition does not reflect the reality on the ground.  The school has submitted substantial additional information to demonstrate the exceptional circumstances it now faces which cannot be addressed within the limits of the standard criteria. For September 2026, the school has already received 45 completed applications for junior infant enrolment. This is almost double the 24 pupils enrolled in the 2025-2026 cohort. No places have yet been allocated but the scale of demand is clear. The intake is far above the national average for a single-stream junior infant class. It also represents a cohort with early intervention needs in literacy, oral language, numeracy and social development. The board of management, the school's patron and the planning and building unit of the Department of education have all approved the opening of a second junior infant stream for September. The school has the physical capacity to accommodate this class. It has a vacant classroom ready to be used. Crucially, no additional capital investment is required. The nearest alternative school, which these children would not ordinarily attend, is already oversubscribed, operating a waiting list, and has no capacity to take additional pupils. The overwhelming majority of applicants for September 2026 are siblings of existing pupils. These are families who have already entrusted their children to St. Patrick's National School. The school has a clear obligation to meet this local demand.  What are these parents supposed to do now? The school currently has seven mainstream teachers and one unused classroom. Without an additional teaching post, it is simply not possible to split classes further or to manage the projected enrolment in a way that is safe, sustainable or educationally sound. The combination of sustained enrolment growth, a significantly oversized junior infant cohort and the need for a senior split class clearly constitutes an exceptional circumstance. It is also important to note St. Patrick's National School will meet the threshold for an additional teacher in September 2027. Based on current projections the enrolment will exceed 192 pupils on 30 September 2026 with a projected enrolment of 203 children. In other words, this is not a temporary spike, it is a sustained upward trend.  Given the scale and projected enrolment, the absence of alternative school capacity and the school's readiness to accommodate an additional class without any capital expenditure, the case for immediate intervention is compelling. For these reasons, I request urgent approval for additional teaching posts for September 2026. This is a necessary and proportionate response to ensure children in Calry can access the education they deserve in their local school alongside their siblings in an environment that supports their learning development. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Robert Troy)  I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Naughton, who sends her apologies that she cannot be here to today. I thank Deputy Scanlon for his strong advocacy on behalf of St. Patrick\u2019s National School.  The primary staffing schedule is a long-standing feature of the primary allocation system which ensures fairness and transparency in the allocation of mainstream class teachers across our primary schools, regardless of location. The key factor for determining the level of staffing resources provided at individual school level is the staffing schedule for the relevant school year and pupil enrolments on the previous 30 September. The staffing arrangements for primary schools for the 2026-27 school year are set out in Circular 0025\/2026. St. Patrick\u2019s National School has a current mainstream staffing of an administrative principal and seven mainstream class teachers based on an enrolment of 177 pupils as of 30 September 2024. The mainstream staffing of the school is due to stay the same for the 2026-27 academic year based on the returned enrolment of 182 pupils as of 30 September 2025. The staffing arrangements include an appeals mechanism for the school to submit a staffing appeal under certain published criteria. The school\u2019s staffing appeal was unsuccessful. The primary staffing appeals board operates independently of the Department and its decision is final. The staffing arrangements also include a projected enrolment process whereby schools experiencing significant increase in enrolment may apply for additional mainstream staffing.  I acknowledge what the Deputy said and commit to him that I have taken it on board. He mentioned that further information has been submitted in relation to the exceptional circumstances. There is capacity within the school with an existing free classroom that can be used, putting no additional demand for capital resources, and many of the additional students are siblings of existing pupils of the school. While I cannot commit to overturning any decision this evening, I will relay to the Minister the strong case Deputy Scanlon has made on behalf of the school and ask the Minister to reply directly to him as a matter of urgency. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Eamon Scanlon  I thank the Minister of State. I acknowledge the primary staffing appeals board operates independently of the Department and I understand from the response to my representation that its decision is considered final. However, what is at stake goes far beyond the numbers or technical criteria.  The decision not to allocate an additional teacher to St. Patrick's National School is, in practical terms, short-sighted and it risks having a deeply damaging impact on children, on families and on the wider Calry community. This is not an abstract administrative issue; it is about whether 45 four and five-year-olds have a fair, safe and appropriate start to their education. We have already seen comparable situations addressed differently. In March 2025 the Department sanctioned the opening of a second junior infants class at Dunshaughlin Community National School in County Meath. This intervention demonstrated that flexibility is both possible and appropriate when exceptional pressures arise. The circumstances now facing St. Patrick's National School deserve the same level of examination and the same fair treatment. The reality is simple. The school cannot absorb over 45 incoming junior infants without an additional teacher. Current projections show that significant challenges would place unsustainable pressures on teaching, learning and deployment of special education resources. The school has a classroom ready and it requires no capital investment. Based on projected enrolment, the school will qualify for an additional teacher in September 2027. The need is clear, the space is available and the demand is already at the door. Surely it makes sense to act now to prevent disruption, distress and the educational fallout that will inevitably follow if this situation is not resolved.  The current system of allocating teachers based on the previous year's enrolment is no longer fit for purpose. We need a model that uses projected enrolment so schools are not left scrambling when large junior infant cohorts arrive. Schools across the country are experiencing rapid growth. Relying on outdated figures only creates avoidable crises like the one we are facing now. For these reasons I urge the Minister of State and the Department to intervene and approve the allocation of the additional teaching post for September 2026. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  Teacher numbers at primary schools have reached the highest ever level in the current school year. Currently there are over 43,000 teaching posts allocated across the primary school system. This represents an increase of just over 5,000 teachers when compared to the 2019-2020 year. This has led to a steady improvement in the pupil-teacher ratio and to average class sizes reducing in this period. The Government has significantly invested in our schools and in our teacher workforce in recent years. Deputy Scanlon will be aware that the programme for Government commits to making further progress in this area with an aim to reduce the general pupil-teacher ratio at primary level to 19:1 over the term of the Government.  That is all very well but it does not answer Deputy Scanlon's point here this evening. The Deputy makes a very strong case in relation to the enrolment for this year, the projected enrolment next year, the high number of junior infants that will be in the school, and the challenges that presents. The Deputy said there is existing capacity within the school and there is no capital requirement for putting on additional space. I am taking on board all of these points here this evening and I commit to the Deputy that I will relay them back to the Minister, Deputy Naughton. I will ask the Minister to come back to the Deputy urgently with a reply to the points he has raised on behalf of his school here this evening. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"School Enrolments"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_35","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Defence Forces","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_32","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_35","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  The Minister of State is very welcome here tonight. I have often described the Curragh Plains in County Kildare as the jewel in the crown of the whole county. It is 4,870 acres of historic and, in the main, undeveloped land. It is home to our Defence Forces, the racing industry and a large number of sheep farmers, along with a number of magnificent sports clubs. As well as being home to those organisations and entities it is also home to many unique plants and bird species. The Curragh Plains conservation plan states that there are over 200 historic sites and monuments on the Curragh, with many more yet to be discovered. I will come back to the Curragh Plains conservation plan later.  Along with other Oireachtas colleagues over the last number of weeks, months and at this stage years, I have been raising concerns about the growing number of illegal encampments on the Curragh. In 2024, for example, the Department of Defence spent \u20ac186,000 cleaning up after illegal encampments on the Curragh. This is the Curragh of Kildare where there are currently two battlefield sites with no legal protection. The last Curragh of Kildare Act was in 1969, which is 57 years ago. That Act replaced the Acts of 1868, 1870 and 1961.  The Curragh Plains conservation management plan includes engagement with a number of bodies and runs to 161 pages. Its conclusion is that we need to review the Curragh by-laws. They were last reviewed in 1969. It also states that we need to look at the Curragh of Kildare Act, and form a dedicated agency. In 2021, along with a number of colleagues, I took part in consultation and that has developed into the particular plan I mention. As I understand it, that plan has been prepared for over a year and a half now, but in a recent reply I have seen the Minister states that she is still working on the implementation of that plan. Unfortunately, over the last number of weeks we have seen, once again, a large number of caravans in an illegal encampment. At one stage the numbers rose to over 100. We also saw the imposition of circus tents on the Curragh. The Curragh is a magnificent facility that is used by many people from the towns of Newbridge, Kildare town, Kilcullen and all the surrounding areas of County Kildare, yet we are being defined by illegal encampments. We are being defined by people who come here and do not respect the Curragh and by extension the people of Kildare.  What I am asking for tonight, and I hope the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, has some answers for us, is that the Government will finally realise the importance of the Curragh of Kildare, that the Government will enact the Curragh Plains conservation management plan strategy, and that we will see an entity such as a dedicated agency taking it over. In replies I have received in the last number of weeks, the Minister for Defence has told me that her Department has been in and out of the High Court trying to get injunctions against these illegal encampments. I hope the Minister of State has some good news for all of us who value the Curragh of Kildare as the jewel in the crown of our great county. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I welcome the opportunity to respond on this matter. I thank the Deputy for raising it. I pass on the apologies of the Minister for Defence that she cannot be here in the Chamber this evening. I acknowledge Deputy Wall's advocacy in this area. During his contribution the Deputy referred to the seriousness of this issue, which is demonstrated in the cross-party support for trying to get this addressed. I addressed this very issue with my colleague Senator O'Loughlin in the Seanad earlier today. Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl has also raised this point in the D\u00e1il. It demonstrates the seriousness of the issue and how we are working together to try to have it addressed.  Since earlier this year the Curragh has seen several different illegal encampments, including one containing approximately 100 caravans. This has caused a great deal of disruption and anxiety to local stakeholders. The Department of Defence does not accept that those occupying the encampments have any right to reside on the Curragh Plains and it has engaged regularly with the Chief State Solicitor's Office to ensure that all legal steps are taken to promptly protect the plains. The Department initiated legal proceedings in April for relief for trespass in the High Court, and in the preceding months a number of other parties were served with notices and added to the proceedings before the court. On 5 June Mr. Justice Jordan granted an interim court order against 35 named individuals and other persons unknown in occupation on the Curragh. These orders were served on the occupants by bailiffs on the evening of Monday, 8 June with orders to vacate, and the order was served on the occupants of the large encampment on the evening of Friday, 12 June. Further notices to quit were delivered to the encampment on Saturday, 20 June.  In terms of addressing these challenges in the longer-term, the Department of Defence is working to ensure that we move to a modern and sustainable regulatory model in managing this historically important landscape. In collaboration with Kildare County Council, the Curragh consultancy project was published in 2024, as the Deputy referenced, which identified the need for a review of the Curragh bye-laws and the Curragh of Kildare Act, and potential amendments to provide effective solutions to challenges faced. The report also identified the need to consider a dedicated agency responsible for the Curragh, or to assign responsibility for the site to an existing agency with the necessary expertise to maximise the potential of the plains.  This Government is committed to the implementation of these recommendations to address both the opportunities and challenges, as can be seen by its inclusion in the programme for Government. To this end, Department officials are continuing to engage with the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, which has undertaken an initial scoping of their likely requirements. I am informed that officials from the Department's property management branch met with officials from the NPWS on Wednesday last, 17 June, at the Curragh, and undertook a tour of the plains. I am informed this was a very positive engagement and that the appropriate next steps will be identified in the near future.  I thank the Deputy again for raising this matter and would like to assure him that it is the Department\u2019s intention to ensure that the Curragh Plains, as an important element of our shared heritage, are protected into the future, while also ensuring maximum benefit to the local population and to those who come to visit the area. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mark Wall  I thank the Minister of State for that comprehensive reply. He is 100% right. All the public representatives of County Kildare, particularly those of south Kildare, have continued to raise the importance of the Curragh Plains to everybody in County Kildare. I welcome the fact that a positive meeting took place on 17 June at the Curragh, because when anybody visits the Curragh - we will have thousands of very welcome visitors to the Irish Derby Festival this weekend on Friday, Saturday and Sunday - they go away with a sense of a place that is truly unique in many ways. It is unique in the fact that we can have sporting clubs, as I mentioned, that people can go walking, and that a person can bring pets, etc. There are sports clubs on the edge of it, and it is the home of the Defence Forces and, in the main, to the Irish racing industry. We cannot continue to see the destruction of the Curragh of Kildare and the Department of Defence paying \u20ac158,000 year on year to those who do not covet this great asset that we have in County Kildare. Imagine what we could do and what the Department could do with some of the dereliction I mentioned before, with the Curragh camp, if it could spend \u20ac158,000 a year on the Curragh rather than having to spend it on the cleanup of illegal encampment.  I hope the Minister of State will bring back my concerns, and I know he will, to the Minister for Defence. I have directly engaged with her on the Curragh, as he said, over many years, and with previous Ministers as well. All we want is to see the Curragh have its rightful place as one of the most important places in the whole country, not just in County Kildare. It is a unique place and everybody is welcome as long as they obey and leave no trace behind them. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I thank the Deputy again for his contribution. The Minister for Defence is the custodian and the guardian of the Curragh lands, pursuant to the provisions of the Curragh of Kildare Act 1961. Under that Act, the Curragh Plains are recognised as a working environment for the State's Defence Forces, as well as being a place of historical and cultural importance, as the Deputy alluded to. As I have already stated, the Minister remains fully committed to pursuing a modern and a sustainable regulatory model in managing the historically important landscape that is the Curragh. The Curragh Plains conservation management plan will provide the foundation for implementing the recommendations identified, including the progression of proposals for the future management of the plains. Any such proposals will be brought before the Cabinet to decide on a future management structure.  It is right and proper to say that the situation needs to be addressed. It is something that has been raised multiple times. As somebody who is not from the area but has heard it raised in the Order of Business both in the Seanad and D\u00e1il, I give the Deputy a guarantee that I will impress upon the Minister, Deputy McEntee, the urgency of this situation. Plans and proposals are all very important, but what is plain to be seen now is that public representatives who represent the area want to see the implementation and delivery of the plan. This is something that has gone on for too long. I will certainly impress upon the Minister, Deputy McEntee, the urgency of bringing those plans to Cabinet and agreeing an implementation plan as quickly as ever is possible. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence Forces"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_36","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"State Bodies","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-06-23\/debate\/dbsect_32","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  Galway County Council has been underfunded for years, and the figures are stark. Galway County Council receives \u20ac1,051 per person, while the average across the State is \u20ac1,534. If Galway County Council was receiving that State average, its annual budget would increase from \u20ac203 million to \u20ac296 million, an increase of almost 50%.  It is undeniable that we are not receiving our fair share in County Galway. This has an enormous impact on all of the services which are provided by the council, whether roads, environment, recreation, community facilities and especially housing, where we have serious issues in maintenance, homeless services, voids and much more. This underfunding means that key projects like Dunguaire Castle and the Craughwell wastewater upgrade are being left in limbo because the council cannot provide for them from its own resources. One of the most frustrating aspects of this is that we have never received any good reason or explanation from Government as to why Galway does not receive its fair share. I have asked parliamentary questions repeatedly, but the Department still will not disclose the formula as to how it is calculating the funding for local authorities and why Galway is losing out. That is not good enough. It is a serious lack of transparency. Why, Minister, does Galway lag so far behind other counties, and when will the Government rectify this unfairness? "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  Galway County Council continues to be underfunded to the tune of millions of euro. This is something that again shows the poor budgeting of this Government, the fact that it is unable to fund Galway County Council as is needed. This has consequences. This is something that the people of County Galway live every single day. It is seen in the state of our roads. If one looks at the state of the roads across Conamara, that is a safety issue. People do not have basic infrastructure.  If we take the health of the people of County Galway, if the Council does not have the maintenance funding to be able to conduct necessary maintenance on homes, that will have health implications for its people. Can the Minister of State tell us why the Government continues to underfund Galway County Council? Can he please give us an exact reason as to why, because this is not the first time I have raised this in this Chamber. Five years ago, myself and Deputy Kerrane raised it with the Minister at the time, and we have seen no resolution come as a result. It is high time for action. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  As my colleagues have said, the funding Galway County Council receives is below the national average, yet it is the second biggest county in the State. It makes no sense and it has a huge impact on every single person who lives in County Galway. It impacts council resources, and it has a significant impact and is really seen on the ground in terms of outdoor staff, who have been absolutely slashed across Galway County Council. I am very proud to represent east Galway, and in particular the town of Ballinasloe. It is regularly pointed out to me in relation to the maintenance of the streets, roads and homes across Ballinasloe and the towns and villages throughout County Galway. It makes no sense. When we look at the funding year on year for the second largest county in the State, it is typically second last or last in terms of the level of funding it receives.  This is stifling development across the county of Galway. We also see question marks over value for money where the outdoor staff are not there. With simple basic things like the litter that has to be gathered up, the services have to be contracted out. That is not value for money. We should have the staff and resources to do it ourselves. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I thank the Deputies for raising this important matter and providing me an opportunity to update the House. I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne.  The funding system for local authorities is a complex one, as authorities derive their income from a variety of sources, including commercial rates, charges for goods and services and local property tax, LPT, as well as funding from Government Departments and other bodies. Central government funding of local authorities is made up of transfers, both current and capital, coming from a wide range of Departments and offices for a variety of purposes. The Department is an important source of this funding, and it provided \u20ac99.8 million in 2023, \u20ac114 million in 2024 and \u20ac149.3 million in 2025 to Galway County Council across a number of schemes and funding sources.  The amount of funding provided under housing programmes and voluntary call schemes such as the URDF is largely determined by individual local authority ambition and activity. In 2025, a sizeable portion of funding to Galway County Council from this Department, almost \u20ac93 million, was in respect of a range of capital and current housing programmes. It is crucial to note that the Department does not provide specific funding allocations to local authorities for housing delivery, but rather recoups the relevant local authorities as projects advance and claims fall due for payment in line with the relevant scheme conditions.  With regard to the URDF calls 1 and 2, Galway County Council secured funding for the one project applied for, and under URDF call 3, Galway County Council secured \u20ac3 million. This is close to the average funding provided to all of the non-metropolitan area local authorities, of which the council still has \u20ac2.91 million available in its fund.  In respect of LPT funding, an important determinant of this allocation for Galway County Council is the baseline, which is the minimum level of funding available to each local authority from LPT. Following a review in 2023, the baselines for each local authority were adjusted in accordance with five criteria: population, area, deprivation levels, an authority\u2019s locally raised income and the achievement of national policy priorities. Galway County Council received the second largest increase of any authority. There has been a further increase in the overall baselines in 2026, in line with the expected increased yield from the revaluation. As a result of both of these changes, Galway County Council\u2019s baseline has seen a significant increase of over \u20ac7 million, or almost 50%, in a three-year period. While Galway County Council has the second largest area and the tenth largest population of any authority, on balance, this would appear to be fairly reflected by the fact that Galway County Council now has the fifth highest baseline in the country.  Apart from housing funding and LPT, in 2025, Galway County Council benefited from many other funding streams across the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, including allocations from the Local Government Fund to cover the impact of national pay agreements and the stranded costs associated with water transformation. While I appreciate the challenges faced by Galway County Council, I am confident that every effort has been made to assist the sector in recent years. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Louis O'Hara  The Minister of State's response does not address the key questions as to why Galway County Council is losing out and what specific formula is being used to calculate the funding to local authorities. It is important to say that Galway County Council has done everything that has been asked of it. It increased the local property tax - I did not support that, but it did it - on the specific promise that increased funding would be coming from central government in response to that. It also increased the rates, but the increased funding has not come. The Department threw the council a couple of million here and there previously, but we need a long-term, sustainable solution. We have lost out on an awful lot of funding over the years. The council executive has come to the Government with a specific ask for an uplift of \u20ac15 million. I call on the Minister of State and the Government as a whole to ensure that happens. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell  One thing I have learned in this Chamber is that if the Government does not want to explain something, it will say it is complex, and that it is a little bit too complex for us to understand. It is not too complex for us to understand. We are fully and acutely aware that Galway County Council has continuously been underfunded. How do we know that? It is because Galway County Council has been clear about it. It has been raised in meetings, including county council meetings. The council has been clear that the funding is not there to deliver the services that people need. The Minister of State might not be the Minister in charge in this regard, but he is a Minister of State at the Department of Finance. He fully understands that in order for things to function, they need to be funded. That is what we are asking the Government to do here. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Claire Kerrane  It is true to say that the level of funding is not adequate. Galway County Council, even with the recent uplifts in additional funding that have come from here and there, is so far behind due to years of underinvestment and not receiving an adequate amount that it is going to take some time to catch up. That is why the specific ask from the council should be heard by the Government and made available. The nub of the issue remains. There are smaller counties with smaller land areas and smaller populations that have more outdoor staff, more council resources and receive more money from central government than Galway County Council. That is the nub of the issue, and it has not been answered again this evening. None of us is any the wiser as to why that is the case for Galway County Council. "},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":" Deputy Robert Troy  I again thank the Deputies for raising this issue. As acknowledged by the Deputies across the Chamber, I am taking this on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Browne. I will conclude by acknowledging the current financial environment in which all local authorities, including Galway County Council, are operating and the pressures facing them in respect of general inflation and higher costs. I get that from my own local authority as well. Recently, the Department has received representations from the Galway County Council executive and elected members in relation to its LPT allocation and baseline. The baseline has been increased twice in just three years, as I mentioned in my earlier contribution. The intention is that baselines will be reviewed every five years in line with the updated census data, as well as periodic reviews in line with LPT revaluation cycles. It would not be appropriate or equitable to examine the baselines of individual authorities outside these sector-wide reviews.  Furthermore, it is important to note that the LPT allocation represents just 12% of Galway County Council's revenue income in 2025. It is a finite income source, being dependent on the level of LPT collected in Galway and across the State. Therefore, the scope for significant increases is limited. With this in mind, Galway County Council must ensure that it is effectively leveraging all funding opportunities at its disposal and identify where it can increase its allocation by seeking more funding for projects that are ready to be delivered from the range of available funding calls. It is important also to focus on locally raised income sources. I know the council has made significant progress in this area in recent years. "},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 12.08 a.m. go dt\u00ed 9 a.m., D\u00e9 C\u00e9adaoin, an 24 Meitheamh 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 12.08 a.m. until 9 a.m. on Wednesday, 24 June 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"State Bodies"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-06-23"}]}