{"head":{"counts":{"debateCount":3,"resultCount":3}},"results":[{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-10-22T16:54:33+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-10-22","counts":{"contributorCount":53,"divisionCount":0,"debateSectionCount":37,"questionCount":30,"billCount":0},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Semi-State Bodies","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_3.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Will the Minister give us an update on the semi-State companies which have received approval to deliver pay increases for CEOs?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Deputy Jack Chambers) I thank Deputy Farrell. I will set out the number of salary proposals approved by the relevant Ministers to which I have consented. I have consented to 23 proposals following the approval of the relevant Minister. There were 11 proposals from the Minister for Transport, in relation to Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann, Bus \u00c9ireann, Bus \u00c1tha Cliath, CI\u00c9, the Dublin Port Company, the Shannon Airport Group, the Port of Waterford, the Port of Cork, the Dublin Airport Authority, the Irish Aviation Authority and AirNav. There were three proposals from the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, in relation to Uisce \u00c9ireann, Gas Networks Ireland and the Land Development Agency. There were two proposals from the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine in relation to the Irish National Stud and Coillte. There were two proposals from the Minister for Climate, Energy and Environment in relation to Bord na M\u00f3na and the ESB. There were two proposals from the Minister for Culture, Communications and Sport in relation to An Post and TG4. There was one proposal from the Minister for Health in relation to VHI. There was one proposal from Drogheda County Council in relation to Drogheda Port. In addition, consent has been granted for Shannon Foynes Port Company; however, the approved increase has not yet been implemented. The matter is being progressed by the Department of Transport. It is important to note that the senior post remuneration committee, SPRC, was established in a context where no systematic review of the pay of CEOs of semi-State commercial bodies had been carried out since 2011. In April 2024 the SPRC was requested to perform a review of the remuneration arrangements for the CEOs of commercial State bodies. In doing so, the Government was conscious of the scale, complexity and commercial responsibilities associated with leading major State companies, and their role in the management of critical national infrastructure and the delivery of investment programmes. The review was extensive, independent and evidence-based. It involved broader consultation with national and international experts and other stakeholders. The review was published at the time. The SPRC was required to have regard to the need to recruit and retain individuals with the necessary skills and experience to lead major State organisations, the need to act in the public interest and provide value for money, remuneration in comparable public and private sector roles and the impact in terms of the agreements. We have published the context in which this was decided upon by the SPRC."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Last week, the CEO of Uisce \u00c9ireann was in front of the Committee of Public Accounts. There was a discussion about his \u20ac118,000 bumper pay hike. An awful lot of people thought that his wage increased to \u20ac118,000, not that it increased by \u20ac118,000, to \u20ac392,000 - an extraordinary sum by any measure but in the context of the cost-of-living crisis and ordinary workers being forced to go out on strike just to get anything that might meet inflation, it is absolutely outrageous. What is the Minister's view? The rhetoric we hear every time people get huge bumper pay is about the need to make sure we can compete on an international stage. We also need to look at ordinary workers in hospitals. Newly graduated nurses cannot get full-time contracts in University Hospital Galway."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers The context here is that the proposals are submitted by the board of a respective commercial State body to the relevant line Department, setting out the proposed new salary and supporting rationale. This is robustly interrogated by the relevant line Department, which undertakes an assessment of the proposal. Then the relevant line Minister subsequently considers the board's recommendation, the Department's analysis and also input from NewERA before making a final decision. Following this process, recommendations by the relevant Minister are submitted for my consent. We have published an extensive analysis and evaluation around this, which was undertaken by the independent SPRC. It sets the context and rationale and the banded structure in respect of different commercial State bodies where no change was made since 2011. Different Ministers have proposed different points on the scale in respect of different CEOs. There is robust oversight of that within each Department."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell My question remains: does the Minister think it is appropriate? Does he think a \u20ac392,000 salary is appropriate? Does he think that an increase of \u20ac118,000 is appropriate? Is it appropriate at any period in time, but in particular is it appropriate when we have a situation where the Government literally refused to sit down with the representatives of the workers who keep this State ticking? It refused to sit down with them because the first thing that they wanted to talk about was pay. Then we have a situation where the CEO of Uisce \u00c9ireann gets a \u20ac118,000 pay rise. A number of people said to me \"God, \u20ac118,000 is a lot of money as pay\" and I had to tell them \"No, that is what he got as an increase, not his base salary; \u20ac392,000 is his base salary.\" I understand that these things are done through an independent process. I understand that things then go through the line Minister and then it ultimately goes to the Minister, Deputy Chambers. In the context of everything, does he think that is appropriate?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers The Deputy is conflating different issues. The facts speak for themselves in terms of the public pay talks. We did have engagement with trade unions in June and we wanted to sit down around the table. I am not going to go over all of that now except to say I welcome the fact that we are engaging at the WRC. This was a systematic review. It was undertaken independently of the Government. It proposed a structure of up to 120% of the market median. The Government decided to keep it at 100%, and then it provided a banded structure with respect to different remuneration committees of boards for making proposals to the Government. There has been robust oversight of that within each Department. As I said, it is well documented and transparent about how the process is undertaken with respect to each CEO."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Semi-State Bodies"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Expenditure Policy","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_4.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash The Minister announced in the budget two weeks ago that he plans to establish a public spending efficiency task force. Will he place on the record of the House the terms of reference of that task force and when it is intended to start its work?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I thank Deputy Nash. Public expenditure must be managed to maximise value for money for the taxpayer and support the delivery of Government priorities within the voted allocations. Achieving value for money in public expenditure is a key Government priority. Over the past two years, a number of initiatives have been introduced to strengthen the focus on value for money and to drive efficiencies across the public service. This work is underpinned by the Government's objective of ensuring that investment in public services and infrastructure improves living standards for the people of Ireland, both now and in the future. To support this objective, my Department has developed robust guidance and comprehensive frameworks. These are intended to ensure that every public body and official treats public funds with due care and places financial responsibility at the heart of their public duties. Value for money is achieved through the efficient and effective use of public funds and resources to deliver better public services and improved outcomes. In July 2025, my Department published a circular entitled Value for Money Obligations. It outlines the key mechanisms and guidance in place to help civil and public servants to meet their value-for-money obligations. It also makes clear that value for money must be placed at the forefront of decision-making in all projects and programmes involving public funds. Earlier this year, my Department published a circular which introduced an expenditure control and escalation process to strengthen expenditure management across the Government. It provides greater clarity on the accountability and responsibilities of Departments in managing public expenditure. It also sets out the different phases of escalation and the corrective actions available where expenditure pressures emerge. Budget 2026 placed greater emphasis on reform, efficiency and the outputs and outcomes supported by public spending. This ensures a clearer link between investment and service levels being delivered for the population. As the Deputy knows, in September 2026 I wrote to all Ministers asking them to identify efficiencies and reforms in the context of the Estimates process for budget 2027. Reforms and efficiencies were published and are set out in the budget 2027 documentation. Building on this work, as the Deputy has said, it is my intention to establish a new public spending efficiency task force whose mandate will be to scrutinise day-to-day public spending. The task force will identify key areas across the public service where there is scope to achieve greater efficiency and will recommend specific actions to improve service delivery and secure better value for money. I will come back with more detail."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash This seems to me to be an admission that the Minister's Department is simply not working. Clearly, one of the core objectives of his Department should be to drive efficiency in public spending and to drive accountability on public spending. If this is an admission, I welcome the Minister's candour that the function of the Department simply is not working. As Minister, he needs to take responsibility for that. We have the circular from 2025 and we have the circular from earlier this year. Can I assume that the fact that the Minister is setting up this task force is a further admission that those two circulars do not have their intended effect? We know that voted expenditure has increased by over \u20ac50 billion since 2019 and much of that has been unplanned. I suggest that a starting point in terms of looking at public spending efficiency would be for the Minister to properly monitor and measure the size and scale of the public service. Does he have a size and scale of a public service in mind? My view is that it may in fact be too small to service the needs of this economy and society."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I reject the conclusion the Deputy has come to, except to say that the work of the task force is to complement rather than replace the wide range of policy and expenditure analysis undertaken and published annually by Departments. Departments will remain responsible for conducting detailed policy analysis and expenditure evaluations within their respective sectors. I have asked officials to establish this task force with terms of reference to be finalised and work to commence within three months, as I said on budget day. Further details will be announced in due course when decisions have been made with respect to it. The work of this task force will inform the approach to budget 2028 and subsequent budgets over the lifetime of the Government, supporting greater economy, efficiency and effectiveness across day-to-day public spending. There was a lot of rhetoric in here on budget day. My sole objective is to build an effective and better system of public services for all of the people we represent. There is always room for improvement everywhere. My objective here is to support that objective in a positive way and not in a divisive way, as has been remarked in terms of international comparisons, and to build better public services. We have well documented analysis from the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service of where we can improve outputs across the existing base of spend. It should always be an objective to do more and to do better. That is the context in which it has been established."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash It should be one of the Minister's core objectives to do exactly that and to have value for money and accountability in public spending. As I said in my earlier contribution, public spending has increased significantly over the past six years. Much of that has been unplanned. The Minister and his predecessors need to take some responsibility for that. The Minister said in the expenditure report for the budget that he wants to examine \"a small number of key areas where there is scope for improvement\". Will he outline to the House where he believes there is scope for improvement? Specifically, what are those \"key areas\" he referred to? We all know that in expenditure in the health service, for example, the excessive reliance on agency staff and outsourcing is a false economy. We would all be better off if people were engaged on permanent contracts as whole-time equivalents to deliver the services on which we all depend. Does the Minister have a view on the correct size of the public service and its scale for a country this size and with our ambitions? As part of this, will we actually have that analysis once and for all? Who will chair this task force? Will it be somebody from the private sector or someone working in the public sector?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I will set out all of the detail when that is concluded within my Department. As I said, it will be established within that three-month period. The Deputy referenced the health system. Of course there are examples of opportunities, such as the work that the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is doing on agency banks to get conversions by having staff banks. That would be a better use of public money than some of the agency costs we have. There are countless examples. That speaks to the need for a proper structure and system of additional oversight which challenges different Departments and agencies across every element of government on how we can deliver more across the existing base of spend and how that can inform the Estimates conversation for budget 2028. This is being done with the sole focus of delivering and building a better State, not undermining different areas of public services. I want to ensure that when the people we all represent hear about an increase in an allocation to a given area, they will have confidence that it will result in an improvement in waiting times and delivery. That is what this task force is designed to do."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell) Thank you, Minister."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers We will set out and be transparent about the terms of reference and membership when they have been decided."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Expenditure Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Budget 2027","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_5.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Can the Minister update the House on how public expenditure within budget 2027 will impact on workers and families struggling with the cost of living? I noticed that he used the term \"a better State\". I like that term but I hope it is something we can achieve. I know it is a bit off topic. I am concerned it will not be if everyone is struggling with the cost of living, as they are."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers Budget 2027 builds on the sustained investment provided by the Government over recent years to support household living standards. It focuses on providing a package of permanent tax and expenditure measures, including broad-based and targeted changes. This will deliver sustained improvements in living standards, greater certainty for households and enhanced supports for more vulnerable households. In relation to social protection, budget 2027 provides an additional \u20ac2 billion, bringing the total allocation to \u20ac30.9 billion in 2027. The main measure is a \u20ac10 increase in weekly social protection rates for more than 1.6 million recipients. This will maintain the adequacy of welfare rates against inflation. The fuel allowance will increase by \u20ac5 per week, helping more than 460,000 households. We have also increased the living alone allowance, benefiting older people and others living alone. The budget also provides for a new cost-of-disability payment of \u20ac500 to support 238,000 people in receipt of long-term disability payments. These measures reflect the value of targeting support through the social protection system and directing resources towards households where they can have the greatest impact. Overall, this funding will reinforce Ireland's strong social safety net, which is one of the most effective in the EU at reducing the at-risk of-poverty rate. It also provides a range of additional supports to ease pressure on families. Increasing the higher rate entry burden of income tax by \u20ac2,500 and increasing tax credits will reduce the tax burden for many families. The \u20ac30 per week increase in the working family payment income threshold will support lower-paid families. Higher levels of investment in childcare will support enhanced affordability for parents. Maximum childcare fees will fall from \u20ac735 to \u20ac550 per month, saving families over \u20ac2,000 a year. There will also be a permanent reduction in the student contribution fee of \u20ac150. These measures are complemented by wider investment in public services and infrastructure to support households and address living costs. This includes investment in housing and measures to improve energy efficiency, with more than \u20ac750 million being provided to address specific housing needs including the retrofitting of social homes and \u20ac655 million in capital funding for SEAI residential and community energy upgrade schemes."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell I was there on budget day when the Minister went through the measures. There was an expectation on budget day that something would shift and there would be a change for people in terms of the immense pressure they are under. I do not recall in my few years in the D\u00e1il there ever being quite as much focus on what would come out of budget day in the hope that it would help people. People were let down. They felt genuinely disappointed. A key example is in relation to home heating oil. In the run-up to the budget, it was promised that the Government would get the balance right on home heating oil. There was an announcement of \u20ac43, which is just nothing in terms of the actual impact of the cost-of-living crisis. Since the start of the year, a fill of home heating oil has increased by \u20ac713 or 75%. Does the Minister feel that perhaps the Government did not get it right in finding a genuine shift for people on the cost of living?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers My colleagues and the T\u00e1naiste in the Department of Finance made the decision around what was possible in the taxation of home heating oil. One has to look at all the measures in the round, including the interventions we made on fuel allowance and all the other rate changes targeting the cost of living as a specific issue, in particular for low-income groups. My Department and the Department of Finance model the impact of budget measures through the ESRI SWITCH model. It offers a robust view of the distributional effects. It shows that the lowest two income deciles had the strongest improvements, ensuring that investment is targeted towards households most in need. That has to be critical to how we make decisions as we moderate day-to-day spending. I know Deputy Farrell has a different view on that. She wants to exponentially increase spending but that is not sustainable, affordable or something we can deliver in the medium term. We have targeted investment and supports. We know the distributional impact is best concentrated in the lowest two income deciles and rightly so."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell The Minister can talk about my priorities but I will talk about his. The ESRI was in front of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight this week. A key thing it speaks about is child poverty. We keep hearing that child poverty is a core objective of this Government. If it is one of its core objectives, it is failing miserably on it because 22.7% of children live in poverty once housing costs are included. That is an outrage. It is quite shocking that there is not more outrage about it. We should be caring for our young people and children. Not only that, the ESRI said in relation to this budget that child poverty is at a standstill. Although it is apparently a priority and apparently this budget did all these wonderful things for the cost of living, the reality for children - we are talking about children - is that it was a standstill budget in terms of child poverty. If the Government cannot look after the children, there is something fundamentally wrong with how it views how a budget should be done."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers We did make progress and specified a lot of priority in the social protection package for child poverty. The child support payment and the working family payment have increased. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, has taken measures with respect to early invention for youth mental health services. Youth diversion programmes have received increased funding with respect to the Department of education and the Department of justice. We have early intervention programmes in terms of new family resource centres. Additional support has been given by the Minister for education with respect to DEIS plus and home school liaison. Equal Start measures are also being continued with an expanded roll-out. We prioritised child poverty not only in the Department of Social Protection but also in other Departments as part of a collective approach led by the unit in the Department of the Taoiseach. This will continue to be a priority over the next series of budgets."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Budget 2027"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Sector Pay","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_6.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell I ask the Minister if he can give an update on the public pay deal. I understand he is not going to be able to give us the intricacies of what is happening but perhaps a broader overview would be helpful. Obviously, this question was submitted with a deadline of last Friday when we were unsure as to what would happen with the public sector pay deal."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I thank Deputy Farrell for the question. The Government remains fully committed to collective bargaining as the established mechanism for addressing pay and related matters in the public service. This approach has provided an effective basis for engagement over many years and has supported agreements that balance the interests of public servants, service users and the wider public. The contribution made by public servants across all sectors is recognised and valued. Their work plays an essential role in supporting communities, delivering key services and underpinning social and economic well-being throughout the country. A group was appointed by the Government on Friday to undertake a focused and intensive exercise with the parties aimed at constructing a basis for formal negotiations at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC. Following positive engagement between representatives of the Government and the public services committee of ICTU over the weekend, a basis for negotiations on a new public service pay agreement has been established. Following recent engagement between Government representatives, arrangements have been put in place to commence discussions on a successor pay agreement. Those discussions began on Monday under the auspices of the WRC. I thank Kevin Foley, who chaired the group, as well as Owen Reidy and Oonagh Buckley for their work. This group enabled the parties to progress into formal talks. The Government's objective is to secure a new public service pay agreement that provides stability and predictability for public servants while supporting the continued delivery of high-quality public services. The commencement of formal talks represents a significant development in the process and provides a framework within which different issues can be examined. It is hoped that engagement in this setting will facilitate meaningful discussions and assist efforts to identify a mutually acceptable way forward and a new agreement. As discussions are taking place through a confidential industrial relations process, as the Deputy said, it is not appropriate to comment further on the matters under consideration while negotiations are ongoing."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire. I would not expect or want him to break that confidentiality. The fact that we are having talks now is to be welcomed and is extremely important. It has been on my mind for some time to ask the Minister what shifted for him. Why did he decide now to take the action to meet with these unions? On a broader point, one of the narratives that was out there was always in relation to the unions and the Government, but let us not forget the workers who are central to this. There are over 300,000 workers who were forced onto strike action, and who lost a day's pay last week to go on strike, because of the refusal of the Minister and the Government to sit down with their representatives in the union. What changed for the Minister in order to be willing to sit down and talk about the key issue, which is pay?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers What the Deputy has said is not correct. It is well documented publicly that there were two engagements between officials in my own Department and trade unions in June, in advance of the previous agreement concluding, at which we sought to construct a new agreement. Following those discussions, trade unions made a decision to ballot for industrial action. As they were balloting for industrial action, a process that continued for a period of weeks, we sought to have engagement again. We were publicly seeking that. As is their right, they continued on the course which resulted in the particular action taken last week. I am glad we have a process and a framework, following the process we stood up, that has allowed for the different issues to be discussed and a framework to be discussed this week. I share with the Deputy the view that we need to ensure public servants are remunerated fairly and equitably and have predictable pay for next year. They make a huge contribution. We are a Government that has invested in public servants and in public servants' pay. The public pay bill has increased significantly because of the expansion of public services that we have made in health, education and disability services."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire. I am glad he changed his mind. I was looking at this from the sidelines, but it did not seem to me that there was a shift in his views. At the eleventh hour, two hours before the strike was to begin, it seemed that he committed to pay being the first item in the negotiations. The following day, we had Government spokespeople out on the airwaves who were contradicting that. However, I am glad he now recognises that pay should be the first item in these negotiations. I want to raise one thing with the Minister. I have been raising it for some time but I hope he may be able to intervene. He spoke about our healthcare workers and all of that. We are waiting in Galway University Hospital for newly graduated nurses and midwives to get contracts. We know how important they are. I am not expecting the Minister to have an answer now, or even to mention anything in relation to that, but maybe behind the scenes he could take a look at what is going on there. As he knows, Galway University Hospital urgently needs these staff."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I thank the Deputy. I appreciate her remarks on that. I have seen some of the concern reflected by the INMO and by the student nurses who are graduating. My understanding is that many student nurses have actually received contracts and have been employed. I do not have the latest data on how many are still awaiting a contract. It is important to say that when we set up regional structures, they plan for the recruitment of particular nurses or doctors in the following recruitment cycle. They need to ensure that is reflected in their pay and numbers and in their wider budgetary allocation. The discipline that is required within the regional structures is that they plan for a pipeline of students that they know are due to graduate. Obviously, we have a structure now with the Department of Health with the regions with respect to managing recruitment overall. I will reflect on what the Deputy has said. I have been monitoring this because I have had contact from others as well. I know the Minister for Health is working on this in respect of different graduates."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Sector Pay"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Civil Service","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_2","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_7.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland Over the coming decade we are going to invest billions in housing, water, transport, energy and digital transformation. That funding really matters but the capability to deliver also matters. Has the Department assessed whether we have the specialist skill sets? What gaps exist to deliver on the Government's ambition? Do we have sufficient career paths to encourage value and retain specialists in the civil and public service?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers In line with the Better Public Services transformation strategy 2030, the Department recognises that access to specialist expertise is essential to a high-performing civil and public service, particularly as we respond to increasingly complex challenges in areas such as policy development and evaluation, economics, infrastructure, procurement, digital and data, and major project delivery. Our focus is on ensuring that the civil and public service has the right mix of professional, technical and specialist expertise to meet current and emerging needs, and that we can attract, develop and retain those skills in a competitive labour market. A range of work is under way across the system to strengthen capability. This includes specialist recruitment, investment in learning and development, and strengthening professional expertise in key areas. An important element of this is our work to establish the Institute of Public Administration, IPA, as the centre of excellence for learning and development in the public service. It supports a more strategic and co-ordinated approach to building capability across the system, ensuring public servants have access to high-quality development opportunities throughout their careers. Alongside this, we are continuing to strengthen capability in priority areas such as policy and evaluation, through the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service; digital and data, with the establishment of a new digital academy for the public service in the IPA; human resource management; procurement; and the delivery of major infrastructure projects. My Department will continue to work across government to identify priority capability requirements and ensure our recruitment, learning and development, and professionalisation arrangements respond to those needs."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland I very much recognise the value of the IPA. My mother is a graduate of it, so I have been very aware of it since a young age. The digital academy is welcome. First, does the Minister's Department track the uptake of the courses offered by the IPA? Second, as we know, consultants are engaged right across the public service and the Civil Service. In some cases that is right, but do we assess whether we should be insourcing some of those skills that we have been outsourcing for many years now?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I will give a tangible example. There is a lot of tracking going on. There has been significant uptake of digital and AI training. We have a lot of data, which I can send to the Deputy. I am particularly monitoring the digital and AI piece, where we know the numbers going through the IPA because it is a priority to upskill and reskill within the public service. I agree that we need to better utilise our internal workforce with respect to our reliance on consultants in some areas. That is why we are using the National Development Finance Agency, for example, in terms of infrastructure development. The work the Minister of State, Deputy Feighan, has done in the context of procurement expertise and specialisation has been a priority in our new procurement plan in order that we develop better procurement specialties within the public service. Deputy Boland has seen what we have done with respect to economic evaluation, with a significant staff across the system in economic evaluation, again evaluating the outputs across the system. On digital and ICT, there has been significant growth in specialist expertise and capability across the public service over recent years, again to mirror our digitalisation plans."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland I very much welcome all those reforms. When I look at our generalist model, and our Civil Service has been built around such a model, I wonder whether it is still fit for purpose in particular policy areas. For example, you could be a civil servant who has developed a huge expertise in the area of transport - and we know major transport projects that we really want to deliver - yet, in terms of promotion, your only option, really, is to move outside of that Department. Are we losing too much corporate expertise? Do we have sufficient specialist models within key policy areas to retain that corporate knowledge that is very much needed to deliver projects like the metro, DART+ North and the various other DART+ projects that we need to deliver as well as BusConnects? We have the issue of the huge congestion within Dublin city, the traffic in and out of Dublin city coming from all the commuter areas, and we really need a focus on areas such as transport."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers That is a fair question. I was previously a Minister of State in the Department of Transport. When you see the organisational structure of both Transport Infrastructure Ireland and the National Transport Authority, there is a significant bank of expertise and specialisation in those agencies, which were stood up at the time not only to provide that specialist expertise to advise the Government but also to provide that delivery capacity and capability in many public infrastructure projects. There are also within the Department of Transport various sectoral experts in transport. With respect to each Government Department, there is a need to assess capability, as I have said, and as the Deputy has said, and to ensure, as they see it, that their sectoral investment plan is being delivered and that they align their skills needs with that so they can manage those, whether it is on financial oversight and governance or on specialist expertise. They should be using the significant increase of whole-time equivalents in the public service to ensure that there is a specialist component to that in order that we reduce our reliance on consultants. The use of the National Development Finance Agency, in the context of infrastructure, has been a priority there as well."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Civil Service"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Office of Public Works","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_9.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation (Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran) The Office of Public Works has responsibility on behalf of the State for managing and maintaining a substantial and complex estate. This diverse portfolio includes office accommodation for all Government Departments, the property estate of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the properties of many State agencies. The portfolio also includes specialised spaces such as public offices, laboratories and cultural institutions, as well as warehouses, heritage properties, visitor centres and sites. As part of the management of the estate, the OPW is occasionally required to purchase property to respond to an expanded service provision or to take advantage of commercial opportunities. These purchases can be broadly broken down into a number of different categories, including properties that enhance the heritage portfolio, such as the recent purchase of land at Castletown House in Celbridge, County Kildare; add to wider urban regeneration developments, which includes the purchase of sites in Limerick and Dublin that are now seeing large-scale redevelopment projects; take advantage of strategic real estate purchases in the commercial office sector, which has included the purchase of a number of office buildings; and protect the integrity of the estate. In total, 24 properties and sites have been acquired to date since 2022, comprising two in 2022, five in 2023, four in 2024, nine in 2025 and four so far in 2026. A small number of property acquisitions are under way; however, these purchases have not yet been finalised. The issue of whether we buy, build or lease property is a complex matter and subject to a number of variables, including the availability of capital funding, the availability of sustainable buildings or sites, prevailing market conditions at the time and the urgency and the scale of the request. To give a recent example that the Deputy will be aware of, the OPW and the Department of foreign affairs are concluding work collaborating on the delivery of new office accommodation for the passport service in Cork. This project will see the passport office relocate from a poor-quality and outdated premises to a new, modern and energy-efficient location, in keeping with infrastructure guidelines. All viable options were considered to advance the purchase of this location."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould The OPW spent more than \u20ac31 million last year nationally renting office space. In Cork, the OPW spent \u20ac20 million in rent in the past five years. Included in that is over \u20ac1.6 million on a probation and welfare office while the Probation Service in Cork owns an empty building. Does that make sense to the Minister of State? He raises the issue of the passport office, and to listen to him, it sounds great, but the OPW will spend hundreds of thousands of euro to rent the passport office. The lease is \u20ac635,000 a year. It started in January 2025. It will not open until the end of 2027. That is nearly \u20ac2 million spent renting an office that is closed. This is bonkers stuff. At the same time, that passport office will not have a printer and will spend \u20ac700,000 a year on maintenance and parking charges. It is crazy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I understand what the Deputy is saying but, as I have outlined, the issue of whether we buy, build or lease property is a complex matter and subject to a number of variables, including the availability of capital funding, the availability of sustainable buildings and sites and prevailing market conditions. The money is not always available to build or to buy, as I outlined to him. We have always examined in detail everything we purchase, buy or lease. We work with the markets and different Departments to deliver the service for the people in Government buildings."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould It is mind-boggling to people out there, after the Government drove families and workers out on strike last week, that now we are in here talking about the Government wasting millions of euro. The OPW in Cork alone has 14 empty properties. RT\u00c9 Investigates found that the OPW has numerous properties on derelict sites registered right across the State on which it is not paying the derelict sites levies. Paying them is the law of the land under the Derelict Sites Act 1990. The OPW is breaking the law by not paying those levies. I will give one more example. Kilmainham Gaol brings in \u20ac1 million a year from visitors and people attending. That is brilliant. In Cork, we have an old prison, the old Cork detention barracks, and this Government is looking at knocking it. We could turn it into a tourist attraction like Kilmainham Gaol to bring people to Cork. The Government spent millions of euros getting the Thornton Hall site ready to build a prison. It put in the infrastructure, bought the land and everything else and now it wants to knock one of the most historic buildings in Cork to build two more prisons in the Glen. It is shocking."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran The issue the Deputy has just raised with me is a matter for the Department of justice. He mentioned the people who were on the streets last week. I think he would acknowledge that the 300,000 people in the public service right across the country have to be accommodated. It is my job in government to deliver that accommodation for those people. The Deputy has outlined that a number of properties are vacant. I do not have a list of vacant properties in Cork that belong to the OPW. If the Deputy has one, I ask him to pass it on to me and I will have the properties examined. However, I assure him that what we are doing is delivering a service for the people of Ireland and for the public sector in particular."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Office of Public Works"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Flood Relief Schemes","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_10.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran The Office of Public Works and Galway County Council are working together on the development of the Gort lowlands flood relief scheme in south Galway. Galway County Council is acting as the lead authority. The Gort lowlands catchment area is a karst landscape that features a combination of river water, groundwater, swallow holes and turloughs. It is internationally unique from an ecological perspective. Due to the complex nature of the area, Trinity College Dublin and Geological Survey Ireland have been contributing to the development of the scheme's design. They are working alongside the engineering and environmental consultants who were procured to develop a viable scheme design. There has been a significant amount of public and stakeholder consultation on the scheme. Galway County Council and the OPW are presenting the emerging preferred option. When completed, this scheme is expected to provide protection to 115 properties, 50 of which are residential and 65 commercial. Environmental assessments are being undertaken for the preferred option, which involves a mechanism to move water through an overflow channel across the turloughs in the area. Assessments have been informed by discussions with the National Parks and Wildlife Service. The timeline for the planning consent submission depends on the results of the ongoing environmental survey and the outcome of the National Parks and Wildlife Service engagement. However, it is hoped a submission will be lodged in the third quarter of 2027. Should planning for the scheme be granted, Galway County Council and Transport Infrastructure Ireland will again engage on the matter of culvert capacity. This matter came to light when the M18 motorway was under construction. Since 2009, the OPW has approved funding of some \u20ac314,000 to Galway County Council under the minor flood mitigation works and coastal protection scheme for nine projects in the scheme area. I encourage Galway County Council to seek additional funding under the revised minor works scheme I announced in May of this year. This may assist with additional interim measures that could help mitigate the flooding risk in this area."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara I have raised the issue of this scheme with the Minister of State on a number of occasions. As he knows, it is a critical scheme to protect communities and homes across south Galway. It has been in the works for a very long time. While I appreciate that it is a very complex scheme, it needs to be delivered because we are now heading into yet another winter with people's homes at risk and left exposed to potential flooding if we experience another severe weather event. That is obviously a huge concern for local people. It causes them a lot of anxiety and worry. The local flood relief committee has been following the progression of the scheme very closely and has been documenting the different steps it has gone through. It has been informed that the possible date for the final public consultation is now the end of March. The Minister of State said we are talking about a planning submission being made in the third quarter of 2027. Is he confident that timeline will be met, because this has been pushed back a number of times and people in the area want certainty?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran Working with Galway Council and others, my team is doing its living best to get this scheme delivered. As the Deputy has said, it has been going on for a long time but it is a very technical project. A lot of environmental issues are involved when moving water, particularly from turloughs. A great deal of work is going into delivering this scheme. That can be seen in the number of different bodies involved in bringing the scheme forward. I know that a lot of residents, landowners and other people in the area have been waiting some time for this project. I will work with the Deputy, as I work with everyone in the House, to ensure that we meet the timelines for the delivery of this project because people have been waiting some time. As the Deputy has said, we are going into the winter months. From speaking to people in certain parts of the country, even last night, I know that when they hear about a storm or severe weather, they have sleepless nights. I am fully aware of that. Since coming into office, I have made changes to try to help local authorities with interim measures. Some people have criticised these but we have seen from the work done in Enniscorthy and other places like it that they have been taken on board. I encourage the Deputy and every other representative in the House to look at those measures, which may be a help."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara I thank the Minister of State. I do understand but, of course, there is still frustration at the slow pace of the scheme and at the reviews that have now been ongoing for a very long time. I understand that we need to get this scheme right and that it has to be effective in preventing flooding in the area but I am sure the Minister of State also understands the urgency of the matter. He outlined a timeline. It is welcome to have a timeline for the progression of the scheme because we did not have one before, but it needs to be met to reassure the residents of the area that this is going to progress in the near future and that, while it may not be possible to protect their homes this winter or the following winter, that protection will be in place for future winters to ensure that threat is no longer hanging over them. Anything the Minister of State can do to progress this scheme will be very much welcomed by the local community."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran As the Deputy has rightly pointed out, there is a timeframe. Since the last time the Deputy raised the issue, we have set a timeframe, which we will all work to meet. However, we are talking about turloughs. The Deputy will probably know the area better than I do, although I have visited the area on two occasions and am well attuned as to what it is like down there. It is very complex. It is not just a river coming at you. The underground water and everything else associated with turloughs also contributes to the problem. As I have said, I will work with the local authority and keep the pressure on to deliver this scheme because I know how important it is. As I have said, there is another mechanism to draw down funding to help people who are in need. I ask the local authority to investigate interim measures to see what we can do to help those people while we wait for the completion of the scheme."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Flood Relief Schemes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Flood Relief Schemes","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_11.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aindrias Moynihan I acknowledge the remedial and interim flood relief works that have been undertaken in communities such as Inchigeelagh and Ballingeary. There is continued pressure in those communities. There is a continued threat of flooding from the Lee and the Bunsheelin. There is a need to advance a long-term project. There are plans in place that would give protection from flooding. Will the Minister of State outline the timeline for advancing the second tranche of this project?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran To establish which communities are at risk from significant flood events, in 2018, the OPW completed the largest study of flood risk ever undertaken by the State. The OPW catchment-based flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, programme was undertaken by engineering consultants on behalf of the OPW, working in partnership with the local authorities. The CFRAM programme studied 80% of Ireland's primary flood risk and identified solutions to protect against 95% of that risk. The Government has committed \u20ac1.3 billion to the delivery of flood relief schemes over the lifetime of the national development plan. These schemes will protect approximately 23,000 properties in communities that are under threat from river and coastal flood risk. Since 2018, as part of a phased approach, the delivery of funding under the national development plan has allowed the OPW to treble work on flood relief schemes through partnerships with local authorities. As a result, some 100 flood relief schemes are at the design, planning or construction phase at this time. In 2025, over \u20ac100 million was spent on delivering flood relief schemes. This is a record high in annual expenditure and reflects progress in delivering flood relief schemes nationally. It is not feasible to deliver all flood relief schemes concurrently due to constraints on specialised engineering skills in the OPW, local authorities and the consultancy market. As such, the flood relief delivery programme was divided into two tranches. The initial focus was on tranche 1 schemes and those already in the delivery pipeline. The prioritisation of the first tranche of scheme was based on three criteria: the scale of the project, the capacity to deliver a national programme and the maximised return on investment by reference to property numbers. Work will soon commence on a plan for progressing these tranche 2 schemes. A number of initiatives are under way, including the OPW piloting a new delivery model for flood relief schemes through tranche 2 schemes in counties Kilkenny and Donegal, which is referred to as the tranche 2 pilot. While it is anticipated that works to progress tranche 2 schemes will commence in the lifetime of the national development plan, the implementation of the scheme will continue post 2030. Ballingeary and Inchigeelagh are projects within tranche 2. The CFRAM programme identified a viable project for Ballingeary, which will protect 46 properties, and these will benefit from the implementation of the flood relief scheme. Similarly, CFRAM identified a viable project for Inchigeelagh, which will protect 28 properties."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aindrias Moynihan Both Inchigeelagh and Ballingeary did interim works such as vegetation clearance along the river banks and other maintenance along the river, and they will take a certain amount of the pressure off. There is ongoing overall concern, however, about what will happen if we have more weather like what we had this week, and there have been other incidents when the flood came up either from the Lee or, in Ballingeary's case, from the Bunsheelin. There is a need for the longer and wider programme to be done. On top of the flood pressure, there is also the anxiety that people and the council feel whereby if they do interim works, it might in some way or another deprioritise the bigger project or that it would slip down the radar. Can we get reassurance that this will not happen and that Ballingeary and Inchigeelagh will be a priority project for tranche 2 of the works?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I fully appreciate the Deputy's sentiments, and he has outlined the money we have provided to the local authority to do work in both of those areas. The change I have made to the minor works scheme, increasing the figure from \u20ac750,000 to \u20ac2 million, allows local authorities to come in under the scheme, but I have also made changes to allow interim measures. The Deputy asked whether, if local authorities look for funding from the Department through either the minor works scheme or the interim measures scheme, it will interfere with the overall delivery. No, it will not. I hear that a lot from local authorities. People ask whether, if they draw down funding, it will interfere with the delivery of the overall scheme, and it will not. The idea behind interim measures, while we are awaiting the completion of an overall scheme, is to help local authorities, but most important, to protect the community that is affected. I announced this year that every local authority is to receive funding for river blockages and vegetation clearance. I know the Deputy's county has done extremely well and has done work in the areas that he referred to, but I need every local authority to step up to that mark. Money is available for interim measures. I need the local authorities to come in and draw it down."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aindrias Moynihan Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire St\u00e1it. Ar an gc\u00e9ad dul s\u00edos, t\u00e1 roinnt oibre d\u00e9anta ar an Laoi agus ar Abha Bhun S\u00edlinn cheana f\u00e9in leis na g\u00e9aga a ghearradh anuas agus an abhainn a ghlanadh. Is faoiseamh \u00e9 sin ach t\u00e1 g\u00e1 le m\u00f3robair i mB\u00e9al \u00c1tha an Ghaorthaidh. Is \u00e1bhar buartha \u00e9 do mhuintir an bhaile. Teasta\u00edonn uathu go mbeadh an dul chun cinn \u00e1 dh\u00e9anamh leis an obair seo. An f\u00e9idir soil\u00e9iri\u00fa a thabhairt ar c\u00e9 chomh tapa n\u00f3 cathain a mbeidh an obair sin ag teacht chun cinn chun faoiseamh a thabhairt do mhuintir Bh\u00e9al \u00c1tha an Ghaorthaidh \u00f3n tuile? I want to focus on Ballingeary and the wider tranche 2 works that could be done there. The interim works have been helpful and do relieve some of the flood threat as well as the pressure and stress felt by people locally. Is there any indication of a timeline? How soon will tranche 2 be progressed to make the bigger flood defences available for the people of Ballingeary?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran Again, I am working on a plan to deliver on tranche 2, but the change I made to increase the \u20ac750,000 figure to \u20ac2 million allows local authorities to advance works to help while we are waiting for this to come on board. For the last two years, I have heard in this House that the \u20ac750,000 was not enough and that local authorities were breaking the schemes in twos and threes. I changed that threshold to allow them to come in. Regarding the two areas the Deputy is talking about, it is on the local authorities to come to my Department. We will facilitate them, but we need them to come in first. We are working on a plan to deliver on tranche 2 schemes. I hope to work on that over the next number of months because it is important to people out there. A lot of people have been calling and looking for tranche 2, but in order to bring it forward, I have made the changes to allow them to come in for funding for interim measures."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question No. 9 taken with Written Answers."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Flood Relief Schemes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Sector Pay","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_12.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Brian Stanley My question to the Minister relates to what is budgeted for public sector pay increases over the next couple of years. Is the \u20ac1.2 billion in budget 2027 sufficient when the inflationary pressures that are out there are taken into account? Does the Minister believe it is adequate to reach a sustainable settlement with the public sector unions?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I thank the Deputy and the other Deputies who have submitted questions. I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 12, 16 and 18 together. As the Deputy knows, a group was appointed by the Government on Friday to undertake a focused and intensive exercise with the parties aimed at constructing a basis for formal negotiations at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC. Following positive engagement between the Government and the public services committee of ICTU over the weekend, a basis for negotiations on a new public service pay agreement has been established. I thank Mr. Kevin Foley, Mr. Owen Reidy and Ms Oonagh Buckley for their work, which has enabled the parties to progress into formal talks on a successor public service agreement. These talks began on Monday under the auspices of the WRC. This marks an important stage in efforts to advance discussions on a new agreement. It creates an opportunity to move discussions forward in a focused and productive manner. Continued constructive engagement through dialogue will be important in supporting progress in the period ahead. There are issues of importance to both sides that they wish to discuss as part of these negotiations, and the process should facilitate a genuine exchange on those matters. The Government considers that agreeing a new public service pay agreement is the best way to provide clarity, predictability and certainty for our public servants, and we are also committed to our system of collective bargaining in the public service. We see the value in continuing a system that has successfully delivered fair and balanced outcomes for public servants and taxpayers alike while supporting sustained improvements in public service pay. We greatly value the work carried out by public servants across the country. Through their efforts in front-line and public-facing services as well as in supporting roles, they make a massive and significant contribution to the well-being of individuals, communities and the wider economy. Given the confidential nature of the process, it is not appropriate to comment on specifics of any of the issues raised during the negotiation period. We have allocated the figure referenced in the Deputy's questions and made significant provision for this in budget 2027. That is in the context of many other measures that will help to make a difference, particularly with the cost of living, for all workers in the economy, but I cannot get into specifics today. I know people respect that because, as we speak, discussions are ongoing at the WRC."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Brian Stanley Regarding the \u20ac1.2 billion, the feeling is that it is not sufficient. Will the Minister outline what headroom there is? I do not expect him to give details or figures from the negotiations because obviously, they have to be confidential. However, there are substantial pressures out there due to rising costs. Public transport, rent, fuel, home energy and mortgages have all seen double-digit increases. We no longer have single-figure increases in this country. They are double-figure increases. On productivity, public servants are doing great work, but we need to get speedier replies from Departments. I have received replies six months after a question or letter was put in to a Department, and I am sure other Deputies have too. That is not sufficient and would not be adequate anywhere. That should be a central issue in the context of productivity, but I recognise the good work done by public servants. If the Minister is reaching a settlement, and I am sure the unions are pushing this with him, those on middle incomes and at the very bottom, such as those at grade three, need a higher percentage increase."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa We have already had a fair interaction about how we ended up in the situation of having the strike in the first place. Like everyone else, the Minister saw huge solidarity for those public sector workers who were out on strike. Like many others, I engaged with them. These are the workers we absolutely depend on. We are talking about council workers, civil servants and those who work in our hospitals. I was at the \u00d3 Fiaich institute, DkIT and Bay Estate National school but I wanted to get to a lot more places. People wanted to talk and they were up for a fight. I am very glad we did not have a second strike day and that the negotiations are ongoing. It is about making sure we see a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. We absolutely know the pressure people are under. What flexibility is there in relation to being able to identify the wants and needs of those who do absolutely necessary work for us?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers Our record is clear. If you take the previous public service agreement from 2024 to 2026, we delivered cumulative pay improvements of 9.6% compared with cumulative inflation of 6.6%. That was achieved through the collective bargaining process and demonstrates the established framework can and does deliver real benefits for public servants. We want to ensure we have a new pay agreement that is fair and equitable for public servants. That is important. We also want it to be sustainable and affordable for the taxpayer. That is part of the broader negotiation process. Deputy Stanley raised the issue of productivity. In every public service pay agreement, the Government and the State as the employer seeks to advance and have a genuine and productive discussion with respect to wider issues and priorities around productivity and reform. That is understood by the trade union side as well. That is the process of collective bargaining. We want to ensure we have a pay deal. We are in the middle of a confidential process, so I will not provide any more detail except to say we have made significant provision for a public sector pay deal and prioritised it in the budget in the context of moderating day-to-day spending in 2027. We want to see a successor agreement happen. We have listened to public servants and what they expressed last week and the Government has been consistent throughout the past number of weeks and months that we want to have a successor pay agreement. With respect to Deputy Stanley's specific question, there would be key performance indicators in each Department as it stands in terms of replies. There may have been complexity with the particular issue the Deputy raised and that is why it has not been able to provide an answer. The Deputy should ask whatever line Minister is involved about it. The Deputy and his constituents should not be waiting months for a reply to an important issue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Brian Stanley I thank the Minister for his reply. I recognise some public servants do not have any more to give, particularly ones who are working on the front line. I am not saying it is in every Department but I have certainly had that experience and I have heard from Members on all sides of the House about delays in getting a response. I recognise that a lot of the front-line staff do not have anymore to give. The key point I would make is that we have to try to ensure that those who are on the lowest incomes in the Civil Service and in public service, whether in local authorities or wherever, benefit the most in terms of any pay increases. A percentage increase across the board can mean a lot for somebody on high pay but it can mean very little to somebody on low pay. That is very important. It is good talks are happening. Obviously, it has to be sustainable. I hope a fair outcome can be achieved. I ask the Government to keep its eye on that element of things and try to make sure we improve on what is there across the board in the public service."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa We all want to see this pay agreement delivering for the workers as they deliver for us. The Minister has spoken already about significant provision but I am still working on the basis, and we have seen some commentary around it, that there is further headroom. While I accept he cannot get into details, I would appreciate if he could just give an indication that is the sphere we are in. We know this whole process was held up by talk of productivity and reform. A number of those who were on strike spoke about the changed nature of the work they are in, they are constantly changing and there are constant issues with reform. If we talk about everything from teachers right through, the piece of work that has to be done from an administrative point of view is very different than it was before. That is absolutely necessary. I am never sure that in an overall pay agreement, you are going to get into the ins and outs of really specific reform and productivity, which we want to see. We do not need Croke Park hours where we just make up that something needs to be done because someone is getting a payment and where there needs to be some element of almost pretend productivity. People want to see people paid for what they do. If there are productivity issues that need to be addressed, they should be addressed but that is probably up to every individual Department."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I thank both Deputies for their comments. That was not what held it up. There were preliminary discussions and there was then a process of balloting for industrial action rather than continued discussions. I can only speak to the previous agreement and Deputy Stanley raised the issue of the lowest paid. That was an important piece of the last agreement and previous agreements too but talks are under way with respect to the most recent one. On Deputy \u00d3 Murch\u00fa's point, the State as the employer has to put forward areas, in a genuine and constructive way in respect to every pay agreement, of reform and productivity. It is in everyone's interest, both the service user and the many workers who have ideas or inputs about how they believe they can deliver a better system for everybody in terms of their own workplace. We should not just frame it in a negative way. It is done in a positive way to deliver better public services with an overall expansion of public services and asking how can they be reformed. Aside from pay agreements, we always need to keep the focus on reform and more efficiencies so the people we all represent see more from the overall level of spend. That is very much distinct from pay agreements, which are done in different calendar cycles. We need to ensure that is a constant focus and it is."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Sector Pay"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Flood Relief Schemes","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_13.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Cooney The flood relief scheme in Kilkee has been ongoing for many years. I would appreciate a detailed update on what has happened so far, when can the people of Kilkee expect construction to begin on this important scheme for the town and on when will it be completed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran Since 2018, and working with the local authority, the OPW has increased the number of flood relief schemes at design and construction by 100. This includes the Kilkee flood relief scheme, which is planned to protect 134 properties. The OPW is funding two staff members in Clare County Council to lead the delivery of flood relief schemes across the county. The county council is working in partnership with the OPW. Clare County Council submitted a Part 10 planning application for the first phase of the Kilkee flood relief scheme to An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la on 2 October 2024, which was granted planning approval on 20 August 2025. The Kilkee flood relief scheme is now completing the detailed design for the construction of the scheme. In conjunction with and informed by the detailed design process, Clare County Council will require compulsory purchase orders for the scheme to proceed to construction. Delays in finalising the CPO documentation arose due to changes in land ownership and difficulties in confirming ownership. The council is currently preparing the CPO application for the scheme involving 66 CPO schedules and plans to submit an application to An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la at the end of 2026. Subject to approval, Clare County Council expects that construction of the scheme will commence in early 2028. The scheme is expected to be completed in mid-2030. The scheme\u2019s total project budget is \u20ac8.5 million and to date, \u20ac1.4 million has been spent. To progress the scheme and management of overall risk in Kilkee as efficiently as possible, the project steering group decided to advance the project in two phases. The first phase will address the most significant flood risk to properties arising from the fluvial flooding from the Victoria, Well and Atlantic streams. The second phase will address the coastal flood risk and will require additional studies. Clare County Council is considering the tender documentation for the appointment of specialist consultants to undertake the necessary investigations and develop an appropriate coastal protection scheme. Clare County Council will continue to engage with landowners, stakeholders and the local community throughout the delivery of both phases of the scheme. Clare County Council has been approved some \u20ac178,000 through the OPW's minor flood mitigation works and coastal protection scheme for works to strengthen the sea wall in Kilkee."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Cooney I thank the Minister of State for the reply. I welcome progress that has been made so far, and I commend the staff of Clare County Council and the OPW on their approach to this project. The community engagement has been fantastic and is a best practice example. The scheme has taken more than seven years to get to this point, it might be nine or ten years before construction is completed, and in all that time, the homeowners in Kilkee have been at risk of flooding from streams and rivers. This is stressful for all those impacted and we really should be delivering these projects much faster. What is the average length of time to deliver these schemes and how does that compare to other countries? Has any work been done on what causes these delays and are there any processes that could be sped up to ensure faster delivery of these schemes?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I appreciate where the Deputy is coming from. The Deputy is on the ground and will be well aware that the delays with the compulsory purchase orders came about because of issues concerning who owns the land. In fairness to the local authority, it is working to deliver the planning to An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la. We will work towards that with the council. We are no different than any other country. I was in Australia for St. Patrick's Day and visited many areas, including ones that had flooded. While I was over there, Queensland flooded. It does things quite similarly to us. Sometimes, we are better. At other times, it is better. However, the issues delaying matters are the same. We have one chance to get these projects right, and while it has taken time, every scheme we have built so far has stuck with regard to flooding and protecting communities. I want to make sure that we do that for the people and area of Kilkee. I have to acknowledge the work of the local authorities. At the Deputy's request, I visited this year and we had a long discussion on how we could move things on. As I told the Deputy's colleague beside him, I have done that with the changes I have made. There is a mechanism now for councils to speed up processes and the delivery with interim measures while we wait for the commission. We have seen that in the eight local authorities that have provided that funding for flooding this year and the work they have done."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Cooney It is good to hear that. I would like to ask about the coastal flooding scheme for Kilkee. It is one of the country's best loved coastal resorts, as we are all well aware, with a history of visitors going back over 200 years. The beach, the seafront and the easy access to the ocean are all at the core of its offering. Of course, this brings with it the risk of damage from the more severe storms that we are seeing at present. Public property, roads and private homes all need to be protected, but it is also vital that whatever solutions are developed do not have a negative impact on the reason Kilkee has been so popular for so long. I hope that there will be the same openness and innovative solutions that have shown by the current project team in dealing with the flooding from rivers. It is critical that the coastal protection aspect be progressed soon. I would welcome a further update on when that might begin."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I have broken the scheme into two halves, which I have outlined. Having visited the local authorities, I know that the \u20ac750,000 was not enough to deliver on some of these bigger projects, such as the seafront the Deputy mentioned. I have changed that from \u20ac750,000 to \u20ac2 million. This allows the local authorities to come in and avail of that funding to help deal with issues while they wait for the long-term scheme. I have been very proactive in trying to work with local authorities on delivering these schemes and making it easier for them. I am even providing staff to every local authority in the country to help speed up the process of delivery. It takes 11 years to do a scheme. I am looking at ways to try to shorten that. At this moment, I might be able to shave eight, nine, ten or 12 months off a scheme, but I cannot give a commitment to that yet. We are working towards that, though. We have to get everything right once we go in for planning. We have seen in the past where other applications went in and failed and we had to go back to the drawing board again. That puts more frustration on people, so it is about dotting the i's, crossing the t's and making sure that we have everything before we go in."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question No. 12 taken with Question No. 10."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question No. 13 taken with Written Answers."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Flood Relief Schemes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Artificial Intelligence","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_14.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aindrias Moynihan When the guidelines for responsible use of artificial intelligence, AI, in the public service were launched in 2025, it represented an important step in ensuring that Ireland could embrace opportunities of AI while maintaining public trust and accountability. The public rightly expects the Government to modernise services, reduce delays and make interactions with the State more efficient, and AI has the potential to do that. Will the Minister outline how those guidelines are being embedded into the public service and what progress is being made?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers I thank Deputy Moynihan for the question. My Department is supporting the responsible and effective adoption of AI across the public service to enhance service delivery while safeguarding public trust. The guidelines provide public service bodies with a practical framework for designing, developing and deploying AI ethically, transparently and consistently with public service values. The guidelines are based on seven principles: human agency and oversight; technical robustness and safety; privacy and data governance; transparency; diversity, non-discrimination and fairness; societal and environmental well-being; and accountability. Responsibility for implementing the guidelines rests with each public service body, all of which are expected to incorporate them into the governance arrangements applying to relevant work programmes. As there is no one-size-fits-all solution, given the diverse range of applications that AI can be deployed in, implementation should reflect the nature, purpose and risk profile of each particular AI use-case. My Department has responsibility for a range of initiatives designed to support high-value AI adoption across government in line with the policy objectives and targets set out in the better public services strategy, the digital public services plan and the national digital and AI strategy. This includes the roll-out of generic AI capability across government over 2027 to ensure that all public service bodies can avail of shared, trusted AI digital building blocks. This will provide interoperable AI platforms and services that include tools for virtual assistants, summarisation and analysis of documents, as well as translation, transcription and efficient knowledge management. These technical tools will be supported by an AI advisory unit that will provide advice and expertise to guide effective deployment. As part of budget 2027, an additional \u20ac17 million was provided for the digital transformation fund to help design and deliver effective and efficient digital public services that utilise Al in a responsible and trustworthy way. This funding is in addition to the ongoing investment of \u20ac9 million in government digital infrastructure to support the transformation of public services to ensure the delivery of better public services. In addition, my Department is leading on the delivery of an updated public service data strategy, which will strengthen how data is governed, shared and used across the public service, creating the data foundations for Al adoption. I will go into more detail later."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aindrias Moynihan I thank the Minister for that. When the guidelines were launched, the responsibility for implementation was placed on the individual public bodies. Will the Minister give an outline of the engagement that has taken place between those public bodies and their implementation of it since publication? We have seen considerable change in AI growth, with it coming on several generations in the meantime. Has that required changes to the guidelines? Have the guidelines and their implementation within the various public bodies been able to keep up to date with the quick growth of AI over the past year and half? Will the Minister give an overview of that?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers It is interesting that the scope of the interest, activation and user uptake is very high. I am bringing a memo to the Government on this in the coming weeks, but to give an example, my Department is supporting the Institute for Public Administration's digital academy, which offers digital data and AI learning pathways for the public service in 2027. This will build significantly on the estimated 20,000 staff that have already participated in tailored AI training across the public sector. This is really significant when we think of the scale of uptake of training. It shows the breadth and level of interest that each public service body is taking to integrating the responsible use of AI guidance and using it in the service stream. To further enable the responsible and innovative use of AI, we will announce GovTech public service challenge areas and invite emerging technology providers to collaborate as well with the public service to accelerate innovative solutions to existing challenges. Work is also under way in my Department to determine the feasibility of a central AI procurement solution for the public service by the end of 2026. This is to give an integrated framework for greater adoption and centralised arrangements for the uptake of AI."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aindrias Moynihan When the guidelines were launched, there were already promising examples of AI use in different bodies. For example, St. Vincent's hospital was using it for ultrasound scans, the Revenue Commissioners for routing queries from taxpayers, and the Department of agriculture to look at grant application errors and improving processing times. Will the Minister give some examples of where AI is now being implemented to improve efficiency and to make public services more accessible for the public? Finally, given that current public service negotiations are under way, to what extent is the use of AI and any efficiency and streamlining it could bring about, part of the conversation?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jack Chambers","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jack-Chambers.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jack Chambers It is important to see it in a positive context. We have announced measures around AI skills, which the Minister, Deputy Lawless, is leading on but that applies to the public sector as well. We want to see opportunities for upskilling and reskilling, and that is happening, as we can see in the uptake with the IPA. There are some other cases apart from the ones referenced by the Deputy. There are huge opportunities in health transformation. The work the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is doing on digitalising our health system will have to have AI fully and properly integrated. It will bring huge opportunities for patient care, empowerment of patients around their health data, treatment and diagnostics. The opportunities are limitless really. I can give some examples. The Citizens Information Board has the AskCI chatbot, which verifies content for over 1,400 citizen information pages to help service users. The HSE nursing and midwifery renewable verification has robotic process automation technology for improved acceleration and verification of registrants licenses. Revenue uses an AI-assisted chatbot which is leveraging robotic process automation. The National Shared Services Office, NSSO, is using intelligent documentation process automation each month to validate medical certificates. In fact, we have countless examples of strong leadership and public service transformation happening across multiple areas. This is driving a better interface of the citizen with the State."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Artificial Intelligence"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"National Parks","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_8","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_15.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Emer Currie I ask the Minister to consider the acquisition of lands adjoining the Phoenix Park to facilitate the establishment of a Liffey Valley park. I am committed to the vision of a Liffey Valley park that was outlined 20 years ago in the Liffey Valley park strategy and somewhat in the 1987 establishment of the special amenity area order for the Liffey Valley. I am asking for further acquisition of lands by the State in the public interest to develop the vision for a Liffey Valley park."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 68 together. The Liffey Valley park strategy was published in 2006. It proposed a necklace of amenities along mainly public land by the River Liffey. These lands will provide recreational opportunities for the public and help to protect and conserve the biodiversity and the amenity value of the Liffey Valley corridor. This vision in the strategy for the outdoor recreational infrastructure would contribute to a healthy, active lifestyle. It would also support the heritage, economic and tourism potential of the area for the local communities and tourists and visitors. Fingal County Council, Kildare County Council, Dublin City Council and South Dublin County Council are the local authorities partners with the leading roles in delivering this strategy. Lands at St. Catherine's Park, Lucan were acquired by the OPW in 2006 with the view to forming a core of a Liffey Valley park. Responsibility for those lands at St. Catherine's Park and for the implementation of the wider Liffey Valley park passed to the local authorities. Lucan House and the demesne were bought into public ownership by South Dublin County Council in 2024 for use as a public amenity. The OPW continued to support the strategy. In 2024, the OPW purchased Donaghcumper House and the 18.6 acres of land adjacent to Castletown House. In 2025, an additional 235 acres and access road from the N4 into Castletown were acquired by the OPW. In relation to the future of the strategy, I can confirm that I convened a meeting on 30 July to discuss the strategy, which was attended by representatives of the OPW and the four local authorities. Progress to date by each of the local authorities and the OPW towards the objectives in the 2006 strategy document was discussed, and a further meeting is due to take place in early 2027. Acquisition of additional lands locally for the creation of a new regional park would be, in the first instance, a matter for the local authorities. They generally plan, design, fund, and develop the regional parks as part of their county development plans, local area plans, and associated green infrastructure network."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Emer Currie I thank the Minister of State for re-establishing that group and for meeting me about it earlier this year and for acting on his commitments. The Liffey Valley is an unrivalled green corridor in Dublin. It is an ecological and biodiversity treasure. As the Minister of State said, it has massive potential for recreation, well-being and amenity value. As per the special amenity area order, it is recognised as being one of the few areas of outstanding natural beauty in the country. However, it is a bit of a no-man's-land because the public do not have access to vast sections of it. I know how important it was to get access to St. Catherine's Park back in the 1990s because my father was involved in it. I really welcome the new acquisitions in recent years. There are opportunities closer to my constituency in Dublin West and that of the Minster, Deputy Chambers. I want to make sure that we are looking at that potential and those possibilities that will add to the Liffey Valley park vision. These opportunities should be taken before it is too late."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I thank the Deputy and the Minister, Deputy Chambers, for their activity in relation to these areas. I convened the meeting with the four local authorities in charge and asked them to come forward with their plans. We will meet early in the new year. As I said, the local authorities lead on this. I would like them to come back in. I was excited by the work that was done in the past and what they are doing now but they are excited to keep this project going and delivering more amenities. I will work with them, with the Minister, Deputy Chambers, and with the Deputy. To be fair to the Government, what has been done and what we have achieved with the land we have bought is impressive. We faced challenges to get all those lands and put a plan in place. If you take the core of this area right into Phoenix Park and across to Castletown House, a huge amount of money has been spent to provide a large number of amenities. The Deputy has requested we look at more lands and more amenities. I would like the local authorities to lead on this and we will work with them to develop plans going forward."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Emer Currie I acknowledge the Minister of State's hard work on acquiring lands around Castletown House. There has also been the acquisition of Lucan House over the years. In some cases, the pathway has not been smooth and there have been missed opportunities over the years. That is what I am saying that we need to be looking at those strategically positioned acres of land that are available now and which would give people more access to the Liffey Valley. The 1987 order stated that the council would look in detail at the need to secure public control over some of the lands, with a view to the development of Liffey Valley Park and access to the riverbank. We do not want again to be in a position whereby we are missing those opportunities. We need to protect, preserve and secure the future of the Liffey Valley. Dublin is expanding, as it should, with development and housing and we need to ensure we have the amenities and biodiversity there to support it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I hear everything the Deputy is saying. I would point to the meeting we convened recently. There is a need for every local authority, and there are four involved in this case, to look at their town and county development plans. It is in the interests of local councillors to zone the land and acquire a right to protect such amenities and areas for future plans or parks, going forward. Listening to the local authorities, they have all that in mind. The Deputy is rightly highlighting the issue. We have lost land in the past. However, I ask her to let the local authorities lead on their plans, going forward. Where the Government can offer support, we will, but let us work together."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy David Maxwell) I wish the ladies in the Gallery a good morning. We hope they enjoy their tour of Leinster House. There is also a group of people doing work experience with the Department of Education and Youth in the Gallery. They are welcome. We hope they enjoy their day."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"National Parks"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_16","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_17.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke I ask the Minister of State to provide an update on his plans to remove a diagnosis as an eligibility criterion for a special education placement; the extent of engagement with teachers and their representatives in developing his plans to date; the extent to which the impact such a change would have on demand for resources has been assessed and the approach taken to this assessment; and the practical steps he intends to take to advance and implement his plans."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Education and Youth (Deputy Michael Moynihan) As Minister of State with responsibility for special education and inclusion, I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak to this important issue and address concerns which have arisen in recent days. My sole focus and that of my Department officials is to ensure equitable and appropriate access to educational provision. The Minister for Education and Youth, Deputy Naughton, and I have secured a record budget of \u20ac3.8 billion for 2027 to build on the good work already happening in the system. I hear from families, parents and schools of the need for better access to supports as and when they are needed. I do not want to see a situation whereby an educational need is not met because a child does not have a diagnosis of a disability. In looking to make improvements in this area, it is building on significant reforms already implemented, including the introduction of a needs-based model for access to supports in mainstream schools in 2017 and similarly for access to SNA supports and summer programmes in more recent years. While these developments have strengthened access to supports, I recognise that diagnosis continues to play an important role for many children, young people and families. I cannot be clearer in saying that no decisions have been made regarding any future changes to eligibility arrangements for special education placements. The work referred to by the Deputy is at an early stage of development. Any proposals that may emerge will be informed by intensive engagement with education stakeholders, including school leaders, teachers and their representative bodies, as well as advocacy organisations and disabled persons' organisations. Ongoing stakeholder engagement has to be and will remain central to this work. Department officials are maintaining regular contact with stakeholders across the education and disability sectors to ensure their crucial feedback informs any policy development in this area. We all agree that children and young people should receive supports aligned with their educational needs."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke I am sure the Minister of State is aware, as he indicated in his response, of the level of concern. I have never seen anything like the reaction. The real concern, and the Minister of State has addressed some of it, was that consideration of the measure was at an advanced stage. The concern was that the measure was based on a New Brunswick model. New Brunswick has done a U-turn because the outcomes were not positive but the opposite. It is a failure when the resources are not put in place. I ask the Minister of State to respond to the following concern in his follow-up. There is a concern that this proposal is going to be wrapped up in the public sector pay talks and that a commitment will have to be given by teachers to secure increments or whatever else it might be. Is that the case? I ask for a \"Yes\" or \"No\" answer."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan It is crucial in our commentary to note that special education is important to all of us, including the Minister, Deputy Naughton, and me. We are at a desperately early stage of negotiation. It is vital that any movement on special education brings in all the education partners. We have no intention of going backwards in terms of providing for specialised education across the system. We have invested significantly. We have again this year invested more money in special education and we continue to do so. Any changes in the future will have to be taken with our educational partners. They are crucial people, including school leaders, teachers, SNAs and everybody else. We must engage with them, families and disability organisations. There is no point in raising fears and tying these issues into the pay talks. These are the fundamental decisions that we are looking at. I assure the Deputy that we will not be making any decisions unless we have everybody on board. It is important that we give the impression that we want everybody on board before any decisions are taken."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke I appreciate that response. I hope it will address some of the concern. As I said, there was some understanding that this negotiation was at quite an advanced stage and may be wrapped up in the public sector pay talks and, in other words, that the move was imminent. I hear from the Minister of State that negotiations are at an early stage. We would not have been in this position if we had real engagement up to this point. I call on the Minister of State to set out what that engagement is going to look like. I am conscious there is a forum and convention on education ongoing. It would seem appropriate that this would be a part of the conversation. Central to consideration of this are the issues of engagement and resources. Children will be failed if those two pillars are not in place. I ask the Minister of State to confirm that a move on this issue is not wrapped up in the public sector pay talks. I also ask him to set out how he will engage with all the stakeholders."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan As I said in my reply, the work referred to by the Deputy is \"at an early stage of development\". I cannot be clearer on that. It is vitally important. He talked about resources. We are talking about \u20ac3.8 billion in the special education budget this year. That is up from \u20ac3 billion. We are investing. We understand the need right across the Department to provide specialised education. We have had huge engagement and investment over the last while. The huge investment in specialised education has been built on the backs of the school communities, the school leadership, the teachers, SNAs and all who work in the school communities who have really stepped up to the plate and have transformed special education over the last number of years and again over the last year or so. There is no sense that there is some backdoor channel or anything else. This is upfront. We are engaging very honestly and very meticulously with all the stakeholders because it is only with everybody on board that we can make changes to ensure we have the best possible special education into the future."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_16","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_18.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jen Cummins I am just in the nick of time. I am sorry. I am just coming from the education committee and it is always a case of having to run up the stairs to get here. I am sorry for my breathlessness but I had to run up from the committee room. I want to discuss the redesignation of mild general learning disability schools. As the Minister of State knows, the assessment of need situation is going to change. How will that affect mild general learning disability schools?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank the Deputy. Does the education committee clash sometimes with the oral questions?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jen Cummins Every time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan That was one of the practices when I chaired the education committee 20 years ago. Apologies. I recognise the important role that mild general learning disability special schools have played in supporting children over many decades. I have visited a number of those schools and met the principals. These schools are long established, well respected and acknowledged for the work they do in supporting their cohort of students. As the House knows, there has been a significant expansion in the range of supports offered in mainstream schools since many of these schools were established. Some students who once may have attended an mild general learning disability special school now have the opportunity to consider mainstream instead, whether that is with SNA support or in a special class. It is positive that options exist for families to have a choice. This does not mean, however, that redesignation across the board is being pursued. There has been some discussion and engagement in recent years around children being able to access their local special school. There are situations currently where children with additional needs travel past special schools in their locality to attend a special school further away. I think the Deputy would agree that spending a long time on school transport is not fair on the children or their families. This is due to the fact that many children may not be able to apply for admission to their local special school because they do not meet the designation of that school. The Department and the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, have supported many schools around their designation and have afforded children with more complex needs the opportunity to enrol over the years. It is important to stress the importance of these schools and their designation. I wish to thank the schools that have worked to broaden their designation. Again, I state clearly for the House that this does not mean there is a broad plan for redesignation of all mild general learning disability schools."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jen Cummins I appreciate that the Minister of State has visited schools, including one in my constituency. The fear is that if we are moving to a model of inclusive education, and my understanding is that is the way the Department is moving, not all schools will be at the same space. The difficulty is we are moving in the direction of every school being inclusive, but we are so far away from that that there will be young people who are lost in our education system. What will happen with the removal of the assessment of needs is that schools will not know the need is for the child. How will they know? It seems we are putting the cart before the horse and running away with a version of how we will do it without taking into consideration what the level of need is. Recently, on foot of a documentary that was on television, I called for an audit of all the special schools and classes to see what resources they will need. We are not balanced in where we are going. We might be moving designation or saying we are going to do it in a certain way, but we are not bringing people along. That change of assessment of need is a big issue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan The work on the removal of the diagnosis, which was the subject of the first question I answered this morning, is at a very early stage. There is huge engagement right across the education sector on that. With any fundamental changes that are made on special education, we have to bring all the education partners \u2013 the school leaders, the schools and of course the families and children - on board because we have to listen to what they are doing. In the late spring and early summer period, I met many special school principals across the country at five different meetings. I heard the concerns they have and listened very attentively to what their concerns are and what the future holds. To meet the need that is coming forward in specialised education, we have to make sure we have our education system fit for purpose across the education system. As I said at the end of the debate on the last question, to be very clear, there is no broad plan whatsoever for redesignation of all mild general learning disability schools. It is important that is known."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jen Cummins Therefore, it is not all of them but perhaps some of them. That is fine because things change in some situations. On the removal of the assessment of need, the Department is putting forward plans, which it did at the end of September, about how that would work in schools. When will that be implemented? Will that be from next September? If I have a child and I apply to a school down the road, how are we ensuring that they will be able to provide for everything my child needs? Will they be able to assess that when my child starts in September, and then put it in place? What if there are significant needs that have already been identified? I am failing to understand how this will practically work. There is another thing I am very worried about. Teachers are experts in teaching and learning. They are not experts in clinical diagnoses or any of those things, so I am a little concerned that we are removing one level of support. There has been such a focus on getting an assessment of need to get the services that the child is supposed to get, but now we are removing it and shifting a lot more responsibility on the schools."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan First, the engagement on the assessment of need is at a very early stage. This is a fundamental piece that we are looking at. It cannot be changed unless we have the entirety of the education partners on board and they are satisfied that what we are doing is robust and is not putting pressure on any single aspect. I am acutely aware of that but I want to assure the Deputy that we are working very closely and are listening very carefully to the concerns in this regard. The parent notifier portal was opened in July this year for 1 September. The number of children who will need specialised education was notified to the NCSE on 1 September and we are continuing to receive that information. We have that. There is no change whatsoever. I want to reiterate that any changes that will be made will be made with the agreement of all concerned. It is crucially important that we get this message out."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_16","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_19.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Wall I ask the Minister of State to provide an update on the number of applications for a special school place in County Kildare; the age profile of the applicants; the number that have been successful; and, most importantly, the plans to provide a school place for those that were unsuccessful."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan An estimated 25% of the total student population, or 240,000 children and young people, have specialised educational needs. The majority of these children continue to access mainstream classes with their peers and are supported by their class teachers, special education teachers and special needs assistants as necessary. The NCSE's \"parents notify\" process provides a mechanism for parents to indicate a potential requirement for a specialised place. This information supports the NCSE and the Department in planning for additional provision. Applications for admission are then managed locally by individual schools. In 2026, a record number of new special classes and additional special school places were provided to support children and young people with complex educational needs. Some 587 new special classes were sanctioned by the NCSE for this school year and more than 500 new special school places are being provided. The vast majority of children taking up these places are moving from another school setting. In County Kildare specifically, 33 new special classes have been sanctioned for this school year. This brings to 180 the number of special classes available in County Kildare. In addition, work is progressing on the establishment of a new special school in Monasterevin. This will be the second new special school established in County Kildare in recent years. I continue to meet senior officials in the Department of Education and Youth and the NCSE each week to monitor the progress being made on providing new special education places. The NCSE advises that there are sufficient specialised places available for children and young people without a school place and it continues to work with a very small cohort of families to help them to access and apply for these places. My Department and the NCSE are also engaged in planning for 2027-28."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Wall I thank the Minister of State for his reply. Again, I put on the record my thanks to him and the Government for opening the new school in Ros Glas in Monasterevin. Unfortunately, as we discussed previously in this House, that school is already full, even before it has opened. The issue I raise again is the young children aged between 12 and 18 who will not have a school place in September and do not have one at the moment. Again, I mention Edel Murray and her son Jack. I raised their case with the Minister of State previously, but this family is just one of a number of families I am dealing with at the moment. It is not a small number of families; it is a significant number of families. I have been dealing with Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board on this, as I said to the Minister of State previously. However, what I need to hear from the Government today is what those families who do not have a school place for their loved ones in a special school setting are to do. The children need a special school setting, yet the families have applied to ten, 12 or 13 schools without success. Where are they to go?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank the Deputy for his comments. We continue to expand special education. We are working with a very small cohort of students and young people who do not have a school place and we are putting a huge effort into engaging with their families and school communities to find a resolution. The Deputy mentioned a case to me. I do not want to put specifics on the record, but I assure the Deputy that the NCSE and the Department meet every week to review the number of children and the options available for places. I assure the Deputy that the Department and the NCSE are aware of the challenges for a small number of families and we are working to try to find solutions for them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Wall I ask the Minister of State again whether he or the Government thinks this small number of families will have a school place for their children in the coming weeks and months. That is the question they are asking me. Some are currently homeschooling and some are trying to fit into other schools, but it is not working out and they need special school places. They tell me their children are suffering. Routine is important for these children. They need to be learning with their peers and need special school places. The Minister of State spoke about a \"small cohort\". I am dealing with more than ten families at the moment. That is a considerable number of families I am dealing with who have applied for a special school place in the new Monasterevin school and did not get a place. Will those families get a place this year for their children? That is all they want to know. All they have asked me to ask the Minister of State is whether he can guarantee they will have a place for their children."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan Whatever about guaranteeing things as a Minister of State, what I can say is that the NCSE and the Department are working with the families and relevant schools to continue to support them until we have found a place. We will continue to do that. We are aware of the small cohort of students who are without a school place. We are doing everything we can at the weekly update meeting and right through the week. The NCSE and the Department will continue to support the families until a place is found. I can assure the Deputy of that because we are really concerned about it and we will continue to liaise with families to find a solution for their loved ones."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_16","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_20.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Cooney I have heard from a number of constituents in County Clare whose children have serious difficulties with reading and writing. The impact of this is profound. I hear about children who have low confidence. They are teased in class and end up not wanting to attend a school as a consequence. I would like to get a better understanding of the scale of these issues in County Clare, the available supports and the plan for providing more in the future."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. I acknowledge that his question relates specifically to County Clare, but I will also touch on the national perspective. The mainstream class teacher is the person who leads on the teaching and learning for all children in a primary classroom, including those with literacy difficulties. We currently have the lowest ever pupil-teacher ratio at primary level. In addition, the class teacher is supported in this work by special education teachers, of which there are 15,200 allocated to primary and post-primary schools. This additional teaching support is provided on the basis of individual students' learning needs identified in schools, as opposed to being based on a requirement for a child to have a diagnosis or an assessment of a particular disability. Furthermore, there are four schools dedicated to supporting students with specific learning disabilities, SLD. There are also 14 SLD classes in 11 mainstream primary schools, including at two primary schools in County Clare. However, I recognise that more needs to be done. I am happy to advise that officials in the Department, in conjunction with the NCSE, are currently finalising a pilot programme to test whether additional supports to mainstream teachers could be provided effectively by teachers who have completed an existing postgraduate programme in DCU\u2019s institute of education. The literacy associates pilot programme will support up to 40 schools initially. Furthermore, I am pleased to say that we have secured additional funding for teacher training as part of budget 2027. A new accredited course in inclusive education will be rolled out across all 4,000 schools and will include a key pillar to support the development of students' literacy skills."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Cooney I thank the Minister of State for the update. I welcome the record investment in special education in the recent budget. The new courses to support the development of reading and writing skills are brilliant. I also welcome the pilot programme being developed, which the Minister of State mentioned. It is a fantastic idea and it is great to see that sort of innovation. While I note that it will support up to 40 schools, I cannot find any information on the number of children with these difficulties at county level. Without that information, how will the decision be made on which schools will be supported? Before the pilot programme is rolled out, will the Department consider collecting county level data on pupils receiving these supports to better assist the decision making about where the supported schools are located?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan One of the issues in special education I have met in the past year or so is dyslexia and reading and writing skills. In a lot of school communities we have visited, it has consistently been one of the issues raised. We have also met many families and communities who have grouped together to look for better resources and skills in this area. On the pilot programme we put in the budget, we wanted to get a better understanding of the challenges and how to address them because it is a major issue. Judging by recent comments made on the budget speech and the reaction from school communities and families across the country, I know it is a huge issue. Before we make any decisions, we want to make sure that the pilot programme is targeted such that we are accommodating the highest number of students to give them the best possible opportunities. Going back over many years, reading classes were hugely important aspects of it, but we have to ensure that we have the best possible across the country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Cooney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Cooney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Cooney The Minister of State said that of 14 SLD classes in 11 mainstream primary schools across the country, two are in my own county of Clare, which is welcome. There are approximately 13,000 primary school children in our county. Research estimates that between 5% and 10% of pupils experience significant difficulty with reading and writing. Somewhere between 650 and 1,300 children are impacted in Clare, served by classes in two schools. This reinforces my argument that the lack of local details results in a lack of adequate targeted support. If we do not know how many children are receiving support in respect of reading or writing difficulties, or how that has changed over the last three years, nobody, including the Department, can judge whether existing supports are keeping pace. We do not know whether they are effective or whether what is planned will be enough. I think we can do better."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan The Deputy is quite right. First, we have to understand the scale of the challenges being faced. Over the last year and a half or so, many of the communities I have met raised these issues with us. We are rolling out this pilot to get an understanding of what is needed across the country and how we can best equip our education system to meet that need. Education is the great ladder for life and it is hugely important enabler for life as well. We have seen statistics across the country on dyslexia, reading and writing, and the challenges that people face into adult life. I take the points the Deputy made on County Clare and will reflect very carefully on them. This pilot scheme is to address the need that has been very clearly demonstrated and how we can best empower our education system to meet that need, not just in County Clare but across the country."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Education Schemes","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_22.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke Will the Minister of State outline the amount spent on SCPA assessments in each of the past five school years, broken down by primary and secondary and by year? This is an interim measure but my sense is it is increasing spending, with not enough of the necessary National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, supports going to children."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan There are currently 242 educational psychologists employed in NEPS, who work across 4,000 schools. The scheme for the commissioning of psychological assessments, SCPA, supplements the capacity of NEPS to provide a casework service for children with the highest level of support needs. The scheme provides children and young people with access to a private educational psychologist on the SCPA panel for individual casework where a priority need is established. For schools currently without an assigned psychologist, requests for this support are discussed with a psychologist from the NEPS national advisory support service. While the SCPA provides very important additional support, the Department recognises that it is best if schools and students have access to a NEPS psychologist. This is why the Department has taken significant steps in recent years to increase psychologist supply through new professional doctorates in educational psychology programmes in Maynooth University and Dublin City University. The first graduates from the Maynooth programme will be available to work in NEPS from summer 2028, while the first student intake in Dublin City University commenced this month. To join the SCPA panel, private educational psychologists must meet qualification criteria set by the Department. The scheme is quality-assured by NEPS. My Department continues to promote the panel in order to recruit additional members. There are currently 53 psychologists on the panel, which represents an increase on previous years. In addition, in 2024, the fee paid to those on the SCPA panel was increased from \u20ac550 to \u20ac750. The specific information requested by the Deputy will be provided to him in tabular form."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke If the Minister of State has them, I would like the headline figures for recent years. My sense is that the cost is increasing. This is an interim service that is availed of in the most serious of cases. It is reflective of a system that is under-resourced. Will all of the NEPS psychologists who are qualifying through the schemes come to work in the public system? Is there an attrition rate? To what extent is the Government increasing the number of NEPS psychologists in training?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan This year, Dublin City University commenced enrolment for the first time. There are now two programmes, at Maynooth and Dublin City University. This work was done to ensure that we have enough educational psychologists across the system. We recognise that we need more educational psychologists across the education system. Private assessment is used when we cannot meet that need within the system, but our predominant aim is to make sure that we have the psychologists within the system to meet the need within it. These assessments can enable students and school communities to make the best possible decisions across it. On the other point the Deputy raised, we need to ensure that all trained educational psychologists and other graduates work within the education system and indeed the overall public service system. We have to work very hard and very carefully to make sure that we are recruiting all of those and retaining them within the public service."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke When I speak to principals in my county of Meath, they tell me they cannot get access to NEPS, or to SCPA because it is heavily booked. There is a level of bureaucracy involved that puts a huge amount of responsibility on school principals and school leaders in identifying the psychologist, ensuring the paperwork is in order for payment and that type of thing. There is significant opportunity to address that. The education well-being practitioners in schools pilot is positive and has potential, but there is concern that that is where resources will be redirected in the future. Will there be sufficient psychologists in place? Has that been factored into the Department's planning for the expansion of schemes such as the education well-being practitioners in schools programme?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan In each of the schemes being expanded across the education system, one of the first issues is whether we can meet that need with professional support for school communities. As the Deputy knows, school leadership and school communities across the country are working extremely hard. They are very conscientious in terms of how they meet the needs of their pupils. In expanding any of the schemes, we always have to determine whether we can meet the needs of that scheme by having the professionals on board in it. The Deputy mentioned principals he had spoken to. Our aim is to make sure that we have enough within the Department to support the school communities. That work is ongoing in expanding the supply. It is a hugely important piece not just on this but right across the Department of education to increase the supply of psychologists within the system. There is precious little reason to announce new schemes without having the supports available. We ensure that we work across government to do that."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Education Schemes"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_23","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Education Policy","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_23.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ryan O'Meara Will the Minister consider expanding AI literacy in schools, including the teaching of the safe, responsible and age-appropriate use of artificial intelligence in primary schools and curriculum-based AI literacy modules for students at junior cycle and senior cycle? We cannot ignore the number of students in this country now accessing AI every day of the week. How are we preparing them to use AI responsibly?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank the Deputy. I can assure him that both the Minister, Deputy Naughton and I are conscious of both the opportunities and the challenges presented by artificial intelligence within the education system. The Minister was in Estonia recently looking at their approach to developing AI literacy and the early implementation of its national AI Leap programme. The visit reinforced the importance of ensuring that pedagogy leads and technology follows, and that teachers and students are supported to develop an age-appropriate understanding of how AI works, to recognise its capacities, capabilities and limitations, determine when its use is appropriate, and use it safely, responsibly and effectively in support of teaching and learning. In addition, an AI in schools external advisory task force has been established to support the Department in the further development of a coherent national approach to the safe, responsible and effective use of AI in schools, which will consider AI literacy as part of its programme. It should be noted, however, that existing curricula at all levels already provide multiple opportunities to develop digital skills and digital literacy, including AI literacy. Ongoing curriculum reform across primary and post-primary education is further strengthening this provision to ensure young people are equipped to use digital technologies responsibly and to recognise misinformation, disinformation and Al-generated content. AI in education is also a priority during the Irish Presidency of the Council of the European Union. Today, the Department is hosting the high-level conference Education in the Age of AI: Building Europe\u2019s Digital Future in Galway. The conference will bring together policymakers, education leaders, researchers, practitioners, industry experts and international stakeholders to advance a shared understanding of AI literacy and to support inclusive, ethical and future-orientated approaches to integrating Al into teaching,"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ryan O'Meara I will start by acknowledging the positives of AI and the huge benefits for students and young people in gaining access to information. My concern relates to a personal example. Twelve or 13 years ago, when I did my leaving certificate, I did history. Part of that was a 20% component for the research study report. I was taught by Amanda England in the CBS in Nenagh for five years. I loved the subject. It was probably my favourite subject. I did my research study on the Modreeny ambush. That component is all about research skills, critical thinking and analysis, and finding and evaluating primary or secondary sources. They are important skills, particularly for anyone going on to further academic research or third level education. That critical analysis and research component of the research study report in history foster really important skills in one's education. With access to AI and the information that is out there now, I worry that this is just one example of how AI could negatively impact on the ability of children and young people to access the important parts of their education."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan The Deputy's points are well made. This is crucially important. Like many technological developments over the decades, AI is presenting challenges. Within the Department and in society in general, we have to ensure, regarding the developments that are happening, that in parallel the Department is equipping its educators and those within education with the tools to ensure we are meeting them. Last October, we published guidelines, which we are updating. The information the guidelines relate to is travelling at speed. It is not a case of just updating the guidelines such that they will last for five, ten or however many years. The technology is advancing so fast. The Deputy made a point about projects at leaving certificate level. All of that is taken into account. Huge work is being done within the Department and throughout the examination system to future-proof that and protect the integrity of our education system."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ryan O'Meara I will touch on the research study report again because it is a good example. When I was researching that, I had to find the literature myself. I was lucky that I had two uncles. My uncle Se\u00e1n had a book on the history of Kilruane and Cloughjordan parish, and my uncle Martin had the book Raids and Rallies by Ernie O'Malley. Both had important pieces of information on the Modreeny ambush that formed part of my research. Before I stood up to speak here, I told ChatGPT to write a 1,000-word essay for me on the Modreeny ambush, with the key facts, the key dates, who was involved and the importance of it, to produce a bibliography and to fit the style of the research study report. It produced that in seconds. Skills you learn in school, perhaps from doing the research study report, include critical analysis and actual research, finding the information yourself and evaluating it. We have to teach young people that while AI is useful, positive and a big part of our future, the skills we learn in our education cannot simply be replaced by telling a chatbot to give you the information you want and skipping the actual work in the process."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan The Deputy's point is well made. Just over a decade ago, the research was being done with hard copies of books. Students or anybody doing research would have had to do that. Now, you can put that information together within seconds. That is leaving aside the ability of students or the young person to engage meaningfully with it, equipping them for life. Education at all levels is about equipping people for life. We have to be mindful of the new reality of AI and how we are dealing with that within the school community and within society. It is an important piece. I assure the Deputy the Department is taking it seriously and is constantly mindful of the changes taking place to ensure that our education system is fit for purpose in the new year."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Education Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_24","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"School Attendance","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_24.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank the Deputy. School attendance is a key priority for the Minister for Education and Youth and me, and across government. Regular attendance is fundamental to educational achievement, well-being and personal development. It provides children and young people with the opportunity to learn, build friendships, develop confidence, and achieve and feel a sense of belonging within their school community. Too many children and young people across Ireland are missing a concerning number of school days each year due to casual or persistent non-attendance. The latest data published by the Tusla education support service, TESS, in September 2026, relating to the 2024-25 school year, shows that one in five of our children and young people is absent from school for more than 20 days a year. A day missed here and a day missed there can quickly accumulate over the course of a school year. As those days add up, so too does the risk that a child will fall behind in their learning, become disconnected from school life and from their friends, and miss out on those vital opportunities school provides every day. TESS has been under the remit of the Department since 1 January 2021. It operates under the Education (Welfare) Act 2000, legislation that emphasises the promotion of school attendance, participation and retention. TESS has three strands, including the statutory educational welfare service. The primary role of the educational welfare service is to ensure that every child either attends school regularly or otherwise receives a certain minimum education, to ensure and secure every child\u2019s entitlement to education. In 2023, TESS launched a five-year plan to improve school attendance. This plan focuses on policy, practice, implementation of the Anseo model, that is, the multidimensional multitiered system of supports, and the expansion of TESS services to schools and families, employing innovative ways to meet the needs of vulnerable learners."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke This is a major issue in education. We hear lots about how much the Government is spending on education and the international measures of outcomes and performance, but huge and increasing numbers of children are being failed by the education system. I wonder about some of the response to school absenteeism in posters and radio advertisements. It feels like a government that does not adequately understand the issue and the drivers behind non-attendance. I am also concerned about the language. It does not use the terminology of emotionally based school non-attendance and absenteeism. Is there a commitment to roll out Anseo to all schools? It is another pilot but it needs to be expanded if the Government is to take direct and meaningful action on this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I assure the Deputy that the Government, the Minister and I are acutely aware of the challenges in terms of school absenteeism. The report that was recently launched is hugely important because while the various metrics used by the Department of education on the level of education being provided in this country are very positive, we must also make sure that we are reaching everybody. Having students and children in school and getting a full education leads to better outcomes for their lives as well. That has been documented right across the board. We very much understand that. The success of the Anseo model is being evaluated and looked at to see how we are going to roll it out. I have had various engagements on this with the school communities, as I am sure the Minister has too. Even yesterday with a number of schools with which we were engaging, they talked about the level to which they go to encourage students and young people to attend school. We understand the importance of it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke In the first instance, I call on the Minister of State to expand Anseo to all DEIS schools. There is a major issue in DEIS schools. I have heard from parents and school leaders that some of the advertising on this is specifically targeted at casual non-attendance. For parents and families who are dealing with something far more significant than that, it has landed completely wrongly. To them it feels like the Government does not understand what they are dealing with daily. We need to address those issues. The training on a lot of this for school leaders is webinar-based and outside of the school day. This means the take-up rate is not anywhere near what it could be. Will the Minister of State look at that to ensure that as wide an audience as possible can avail of the training?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan A huge amount of work is being done by school leaders to understand the challenge and how best they can meet it daily. The school leadership is looking at it. They know their students and the ones who have been absent for several days and the issues they have. I have heard from school community leaders about the level to which they go to ensure that people are coming to school and what issues are causing school avoidance and so forth. The Anseo model has been very effective. It is hugely important that we evaluate that properly. There is a huge uptake from school leadership in terms of the information we are providing, but that information must be provided in a meaningful way so that we can target a lot of vulnerable people and keep them in school for as long as possible because if do, we will have fewer problems for society down the line."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"School Attendance"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_25","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"School Staff","counts":{"speechCount":11,"speakerCount":4},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_25","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_25.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louise O'Reilly Three weeks ago, I raised with the Minister of State the case of St. Patrick's Junior National School in Skerries. At the time, I told him that it was going to go from having three classes of 22 to having two classes of 33. I am not trying to put words in his mouth but I think he agreed that 33 students is not ideal. That is as far as he would go; I would say it is an absolute, bloody disgrace. It is not feasible that there would be two classes of 33. It is not fair on the students. It is particularly unfair on the students who have additional needs. It is not fair on the school community and the staff who work there. That teacher is due to be lost tomorrow. I have raised the matter with the Minister of State and my constituency colleague Deputy Robert O'Donoghue, who is here, has raised it with him, as has Deputy Boland. We are at one on this. There is one day left to fix this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank Deputy O'Reilly very much for the question. We discussed this across the Chamber a number of weeks ago as well. The Government is investing a record amount of money in education through budget 2027. This record level of investment includes funding of \u20ac646 million to place education and youth services on a more sustainable footing. The Department's staffing schedule is a long-standing feature of the primary school staffing allocation system and is designed to ensure fairness, transparency and consistency in the allocation of mainstream teachers across all primary schools. The key factor in determining the level of mainstream teachers allocated to individual primary schools is the school's recognised enrolment as of 30 September of the previous year. The Minister, Deputy Naughton, is aware of the concerns expressed by parents and the school community in relation to staffing arrangements at St Patrick's Junior National School in Skerries, and the importance of maintaining appropriate supports for all pupils, including autistic children and those with additional educational needs. Class sizes in schools are affected by a variety of factors, including enrolment fluctuations and available accommodation. Schools are best placed to determine the appropriate numbers in any class, so the configuration of classes and the deployment of classroom teachers is done at the local school level. The Department's guidance to schools is that the number of pupils in any class should be kept as low as possible, taking all relevant factors into account. School authorities should also, where possible, use the autonomy under the staffing schedule to implement smaller classes at the junior class level. In recognition of the anticipated growth, the school successfully applied under the projected enrolment process and was granted provisional sanction for an additional temporary mainstream teacher for the 2026-27 school year. The school is aware that the enrolment of at least 272 pupils is required to retain the projected enrolment post on a permanent basis."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle I thank the Minister of State."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I will come back to the other point in my follow-up reply."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louise O'Reilly I raised this with the Minister of State three weeks ago and then, following that, I corresponded with the Minister for education's office. I got correspondence back on 8 October asking for an agenda and a list of attendees at the meeting, which we provided. We have not had any contact since, but we have tried to make contact. I think there were some telephone calls yesterday. Will consideration be given to the retention of the teacher pending the appeal process? The total number of students in St Patrick's Junior National School is 267, which is above the 258 threshold. I appreciate the advice on how to manage the classes, but the simple fact is that once that teacher is lost, there will be no choice and no other way to spread the resources. The class sizes will be two classes of 33. That is not acceptable. The average is 21.9. The Minister of State talks about the Government wanting to reduce class sizes. That is very good, but how are the teaching staff, the SNAs and the school community expected to manage with 33 children in each of the classrooms? It is not very fair, so I am asking whether the teacher can be kept on pending the result of the appeal and the meeting with the Minister's office."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert O'Donoghue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Robert-O'Donoghue.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Robert O'Donoghue I would like to back my constituency colleague Deputy O'Reilly. We stood on the picket lines with teachers last week and it struck me that the refrain over and over again was pressure, pressure, pressure. Pressure is coming from every direction. St. Patrick's school is at critical risk of losing a teacher. When we are counting numbers, the reality behind it is that children in larger class sizes are having their education affected. The teachers, who already have serious demands from the curriculum alone, are under immense pressure. Tomorrow is the start of mid-term, and before the children, staff and parents of St. Patrick's Junior National School in Skerries head off on their break, they need reassurance. I urge the Minister of State to please not leave this school community going into mid-term wondering whether it will have a teacher it needs and whether the teacher will return. We are asking to protect the teacher, support the school, put the needs of children first and retain the teacher pending the appeals process."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan As is the case for all schools approved under the projected enrolment process, the additional post is allocated on a provisional temporary basis pending confirmation that the required enrolment threshold has been met. In the 2025-26 school year, the enrolment decreased from 281 pupils to 249, a reduction of 32. The school has returned an enrolment of 267 pupils. I think the Topical Issue regarding this was on 28 or 29 September. We were waiting for the enrolment data to come in, if memory serves me correctly. Unfortunately, that falls short of the figure to retain the projected enrolment post provisionally sanctioned. However, St. Patrick's Junior National School has submitted an appeal to the primary staffing appeals board to retain this post. The appeals board is independent of the Department. I understand that the appeal is being heard these days. It is important that we acknowledge the process and leave the independence of the process."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louise O'Reilly I ask that the teacher be retained pending the outcome of the appeal. The Minister of State said the appeal would be heard soon. That is a good thing because the school is within the standard retention threshold of 258. As the Minister of State said, the number is 267, and 267 obviously being a higher number than 258 puts it within that threshold. I have just this minute received a response from the Minister's office to say that she cannot meet until after the appeal. I ask that the Minister of State address the direct request that Deputy O'Donoghue and I made, and I am sure Deputy Boland would echo, which is for the retention of the teacher pending the outcome of the appeal. It will be very disruptive for the pupils. All I ask is that the teacher be retained pending the outcome of the appeal and that the Minister of State step in and stop a class size increasing from the average, 22, up to 33. That is too many. It is not fair on the school community and it is most definitely not fair on the students."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I take the points that have been made. The long-established system of allocating teachers in the education system has been in place for many years. I understand that the appeal is being heard these days. The independent process of the appeal is important. It is also important to have the integrity of that appeal process not just for here, but for across the education system. It is right and proper that we wait for the outcome of the appeal. I assure the Deputy that the appeal is being heard these days. That is my information. We must wait until-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louise O'Reilly Is that today?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan As I understand it, it is being held this week. I do not have the exact date, so I do not know if that means yesterday, today or tomorrow. It is important that we wait for the outcome of that appeal before commenting further."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"School Staff"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_26","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_26","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_26.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl T\u00e1 m\u00e9 ag seasamh isteach do mo chomhghleaca\u00ed Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail ar an gceist seo. Deputy \u00d3 Cear\u00fail is anxious to establish how the current budget will benefit resources for students with special needs in north County Kildare in terms of special classes, special teachers and SNAs. He has a particular concern around the provision of funding for facilitation works for Stepping Stones Special School in Maynooth."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan For 2027, the Government has prioritised ensuring schools across the country, including in Kildare North, have the necessary resources to support children with special educational needs in the setting that best meets their needs. Since 2020, over 2,400 new special classes have been provided. There are now more than 4,300 special classes available in our primary and post-primary schools, with 180 special classes across primary and post-primary schools in County Kildare. In addition, of the 20 new special schools that have been opened, two are in County Kildare, bringing the number of special schools in the county to six. Budget 2027 will increase our special education teachers by over 1,300. Over 2,300 additional special needs assistants will also be funded to support children across mainstream and specialised settings. This will bring the total number of SNAs to over 28,000 by the end of 2027, the highest ever number of SNAs allocated in our education system. In total, there will be 52,000 dedicated staff to support the approximately 250,000 children with special educational needs in our schools. The NCSE's parents notify process provides critical information on children and young people who require specialised placements for the 2027-28 school year. An analysis of notifications received includes consideration of geographical factors and will focus on ensuring that there is local provision available for children and young people requiring placements. The NCSE and Department will use this information to work with schools in Kildare North and across the country to plan for special education provision for 2027. I will refer to the other points raised in the question in my supplementary response."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl The figures the Minister of State quoted are absolutely astonishing. They are hugely impressive by any objective yardstick. I commend him personally on his contribution. I see my colleague Deputy N\u00ed Raghallaigh, and Deputy Wall was here earlier. Despite that enormous provision, though, I am utterly flabbergasted at the number of people who continue to come to us at our clinics saying that they cannot access supports, resources or class places for their children. The situation is astonishing. I salute the NCSE for what it is trying to do and many of the special educational needs organisers, SENOs, who are very effective in working with families, yet the demand seems to be inexorable. Within the Department, is there an overview of when we will get to the point where we will be ahead of demand, creating a situation where parents will not be under the level stress they are currently dealing with?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan When one lays out the figures, by any yardstick, the amount of investment in special education is huge. When you drill down into it all and fight for the funding at budget level - both the Minister, Deputy Naughton, and I fought very hard earlier this year to increase funding - yet there is still a small cohort of students outside not getting the education they deserve, you challenge yourself to do more. Over the past number of years, particularly in October 2025 and again this year, the parent notify system has given a sense of the level of need across the education system. Outside commentators will say that there were different factors involved but when you drill down into the numbers of the parent notify system, the reality is those children have special education requirements. We as a country are trying to make sure we have the funding available."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl I would also like to raise the proper placement of students so that students can get a place in their local communities where they can attend with their siblings and neighbours. All too often, people criss-cross the county from one place to another to find a place, being sent to other locations by SENOs. I would like to ask about the relatively uncommon phenomenon of schools that will not play their part and refuse to take special classes and accommodate demand in their area. Is there a strategy in the Department to ensure that every primary school and post-primary school shoulders its responsibility and takes the benefits, let me say as well, that go with providing for children with special needs? Every student in those schools learns and benefits from that situation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan The Deputy mentioned Stepping Stones. I will get an update. On the Deputy's point about having special education across the system, I compliment Kildare in particular. On a visit we made to Kildare, including Maynooth, both of the second level schools in question were top of the range in this regard. There is commentary that we should look around the world at this, but those schools are leaders. It is no longer acceptable that any school or school community at primary or post-primary level is not engaging in the provision of special education. To have the provision of special education in the local community is important for the student, the families and the life outcomes. There can be no excuses. We have had challenges in relation to some schools but, by and large, that resistance has changed over the last year or year and a half. We have to ensure that every primary and post-primary school is providing special education. We will be reducing the criss-crossing. We will also be reducing the time that young students are spending on buses travelling across the county or the country. Those points are not lost on me at all."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_27.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Clendennen Will the Minister of State provide an update on the impact of these ad hoc changes?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank the Deputy. The school transport system is a significant operation managed by Bus \u00c9ireann on behalf of the Department of Education and Youth. The National Council for Special Education acts in an advisory role to the Department on the suitability of placements for children with special educational needs. Under the terms of the school transport scheme for children with special educational needs, the Department will consider a report from the SENO. Children are deemed eligible for transport where they have special educational needs arising from diagnosed disabilities and are attending the nearest recognised mainstream school, special class or special school or a unit that can be resourced to meet their special educational needs, as identified by the SENO. Where a service has been approved by the Department, Bus \u00c9ireann is required to tender that service in line with procurement guidelines and is responsible for the allocation and vetting of a contractor to operate it. The Department and Bus \u00c9ireann are very conscious of the sensitive nature of school transport requirements for children with special educational needs and the impact that any changes to these services can have on pupils, and they will always endeavour to ensure continuity for pupils where possible. However, there are times when changes to a service may occur. This may include a change in contractor due to procurement requirements, the addition of a new pupil on the service to allow them to attend school, the appointment of a temporary or new driver or escort due to absence, or the existing driver or escort leaving their current employment. In these cases, Bus \u00c9ireann will endeavour to advise the families of these changes as soon as possible. In some cases, the changes happen at short notice. Bus \u00c9ireann aims to provide all students with a reasonable level of service. Officials in my Department are available to assist with any specific queries that the Deputy may have."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Clendennen I thank the Minister of State. I fully acknowledge the work that has gone into improving our transport scheme in terms of school transport, with 180,000 children supported, 24,000 of whom are special education children. The budget, as outlined in response to a parliamentary question in September, has increased from \u20ac200 million in 2018 to \u20ac537 million. The Government has not been found wanting and I acknowledge that, but there are cases, particularly from a special education perspective, where these changes cause unnecessary stress for families. I have a concern about the level of co-ordination in the approach and ask that, whether involving the school transport provider, the SENO, the school or the family, there be a greater consensus arrived at before a decision is made, given that the impact is materially greater than it is in normal circumstances. Every provision needs to be made before that decision is made."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan It is important that, when discussing education for children with special educational needs, we are providing the most appropriate services. As with the previous question from Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl, we must consider the time that children with additional needs are travelling on buses. It is vital that we continue to reduce the time that they are on the buses or whatever transport that is provided for them. Children with additional educational requirements travelling over an hour to and from school is not acceptable. We have to make sure that we are reducing that. With Bus \u00c9ireann, we are putting a huge amount of resources into this. The Deputy raised a case with us recently. I may update him afterwards in relation to that. The fundamental issues that the Deputy has raised are not lost on me. We have to have all concerned making the right decision for the pupils."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Clendennen I fully agree. A safe, familiar and routine means of transport is important to these children. It is also important that we clarify the means of appeal in such scenarios so that we can give that element of reassurance to parents. In the last couple of seconds I have, I want to raise the importance of the increased budget that the Department has in 2027 for school transport provision and the need to provide for areas that have been affected. In my area, the likes of Shinrone, Mountheaton and Killavilla are served by the school in Birr but it is not necessary the closest school. Many pupils, by closest proximity, should be going to Roscrea. It is a different county and province. Birr is their natural fit. I ask that every measure be taken in the coming months to try to make provision for the children and the families of the Shinrone, Mountheaton and Killavilla areas to ensure that all of them are accommodated in their preference to attend the Birr school in September 2027."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan We are spending a lot of money on the school transport system. For the 2026-27 school year, it will be somewhere in the region of over \u20ac670 million. We have a number of flashpoints across the country that are very difficult to resolve or where we are unable to resolve issues for pupils and get them tickets for buses to mainstream classes and so forth. We are looking at how best we can integrate into the public transport system. The public transport system is not well served within rural Ireland, so we are talking about the school buses but also Local Link. Engagement has commenced between myself, the Minister, Hildegarde Naughton, the Minister for Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht and the Minister for Transport as to how best we can implement this. One arm is providing a transport system. We want to see whether we can have an overall transport system that gives everyone their choice and a route to school."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_28","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Youth Services","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_28","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_28.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide Youth services do important work, particularly with young people experiencing disadvantage, social isolation and mental health difficulties, yet these organisations operate with inadequate staffing levels and considerable financial pressures. My question concerns the additional funding for youth services in budget 2027. How many additional staff will be recruited and what is the timetable for filling those posts? Will the Minister clarify how much of the funding will actually translate into additional front-line youth workers?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I thank the Deputy. Both the Minister, Deputy Naughton, and I wish to acknowledge the outstanding work carried out by approximately 2,000 youth workers across the country. The youth sector delivers high-quality youth work and non-formal education opportunities to approximately 450,000 young people aged between ten and 24 years of age. Within this broader context, over 90,000 young people participate in the 258 UBU Your Place Your Space services nationally, supporting them to develop personal and social skills, strengthen well-being, and reach their full potential. In 2026, current funding of over \u20ac90 million is provided to support existing youth services. Building on this, budget 2027 increases current funding for youth work services by \u20ac7 million, bringing total current funding to over \u20ac97 million for next year. This represents an increase of almost 8% on 2026 levels. The overall increase in youth funding since 2020 is more than \u20ac34 million. It is important to note that the Department does not employ or fund youth worker posts directly. The Department provides funding to youth services and youth organisations to provide youth services. These organisations are responsible for determining their staffing requirements and deploying resources in a manner that best meets the needs of young people who use these services. The Minister, Deputy Naughton, and departmental officials are currently considering allocation of the 2027 funding across the range of youth schemes and programmes. Once those are determined, any additional staffing to be recruited, the specific roles to be recruited, recruitment timelines or any net change in staffing levels arising from funding allocations will be decisions for the individual funded organisations, having regard to operational needs and available resources. The Department will continue to engage closely with youth services as allocations are finalised."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide I acknowledge the enormous contribution of local youth services, often operating on a shoestring. In Cork East, we have excellent examples of this work done through the Cloyne Diocesan Youth Services, CDYS, in Mitchelstown, Fermoy, Midleton, Carrigtohill and Cloyne, and we have a separately run and very dynamic youth service in Cobh. The reach of their work is extraordinary relative to the resources available to them. These services do far more than organise activities. They help young people to build confidence, forge friendships, reconnect with education, pursue projects and navigate difficult circumstances in their lives. As a psychologist, I am particularly conscious of the importance of this work in preventing difficulties from becoming more entrenched. Much of that happens quietly, without the recognition it deserves. I understand what the Minister of State said - that the Department did not directly fund posts - but does he have any ballpark idea of how many extra youth workers will be funded through budget 2027?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan As regards the allocation, we got an extra \u20ac7 million in the budget in relation to youth services. Quite rightly, we commend the work being done across the country by youth services. In many instances, they are reaching young people who are very vulnerable and giving them the best possible path in life or the best possible opportunity to reach their potential in life. An awful lot of great work is being done by youth services, for which we have extra funding. We are considering that extra funding now to determine how we will allocate it over the next while. The Minister, Deputy Naughton, will make those decisions. We are considering that very meaningfully. It would not be appropriate for me to say that there will be extra workers. We understand the need for more people within the services. We also understand the need for other types of activities within youth services to ensure that we reach the most vulnerable people. I assure the Deputy that we will make the decisions in a timely manner."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide We need to acknowledge the damage done to youth services during the austerity years. Under the Fine Gael-Labour Government, funding for youth organisations and special youth projects was cut dramatically. Between 2008 and 2015, funding fell by more than 44%, and that has had a far-reaching and very serious impact. While there have been increases in recent years, the sector has still not recovered from those cuts in real terms, despite a growing youth population and increasingly complex needs. We talk constantly about the importance of early intervention in mental health, but youth work is itself one of our most valuable forms of early intervention. Youth workers build relationships with young people, support them through very difficult periods in their lives and help them develop confidence, friendship and a sense of belonging. Does the Government have any actual plan to rebuild the capacity lost during the austerity years?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan As the Deputy can see, we have increased funding this year for youth services. We have continued to do so quite considerably over recent years. We are investing in youth services and we acknowledge the work being done across the services. It is a hugely important piece of the Department. Youth services are now back with the Department of education, as they were going back many years. It is important that that role continue. We are increasing the investment and will continue to do so. The great work being done is not lost on me or anybody else in the Department, and we will continue to increase funding for youth services across the country."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Youth Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_29","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Schools Building Projects","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_29","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_29.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath I ask the Minister of State for a full update on the school building project for Owenabue Educate Together National School, based in Carrigaline, County Cork."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I understand that this is an issue on which Deputy McGrath has spent a huge amount of time, working with the school communities. The school building project at Owenabue Educate Together National School represents an important element of the Department of education's overall school building programme. The major project is being delivered under the Department's accelerated delivery of architectural planning and tendering programme, which uses a professional external project manager to progress the project through the relevant stages of architectural planning, tender and construction. The project will deliver a new 16-classroom primary school and five classrooms for children with special educational needs. A 2.76 acre site at Janeville, Shannonpark, Carrigaline, was acquired by the Department for the permanent building in 2024. The project is currently at stage 1, preliminary design. During this stage, site factors and constraints are assessed, options are developed for delivery of the project, and a preferred option is identified. In late September, departmental officials were in contact with the school's acting principal to provide a project update. The current position is that departmental comments on the stage 1 addendum were issued in June 2026, via the project manager, for the design team's attention. Departmental officials are currently working on internal governance procedures to close out stage 1. All school building projects, as they progress through the pipeline, must undergo the necessary due diligence outlined in the infrastructure guidelines and the capital works management framework."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath I thank the Minister of State for the update on the project. This school is based in temporary accommodation at Herons Wood in Carrigaline. It is across two buildings, so it is a separated campus in that sense. The school opened its doors in 2020 and was in other temporary accommodation at that time, so it is in a second temporary accommodation at this stage. The parents, teachers and pupils desperately need some line of sight as to when this school building project will take place. I visited the school recently and it is really crammed in terms of space. It is unsuitable. The school - this is relevant to the Minister of State's responsibility for special education - provides significant services in the area of special education. It really needs to see this school project progress in order that stage 1 gets closed out as quickly as possible. It has been 14 months since the addendum report was issued by the design team, and the Department seems, frankly, to be dilly-dallying on that in not closing out stage 1 and moving this on to the next phase."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I will go back to the Department. It is crucial that stage 1 be closed out. I give a commitment to go back to the Department today and make sure that we are working on that. The Deputy has demonstrated quite clearly in conversations and correspondence with us the challenges within the school community to work effectively within the present accommodation. I know that the school is a huge advocate for special education as well, for which I admire it. We will work closely. This is a long-running issue. It is one we need to meet head-on in order that, as the stages come, we have no delays. I will report back to the Department and, on foot of that, report back to the Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath I would appreciate if the Minister of State could go back to the Department and inject some urgency in closing out stage 1 of this project. I visited the school, and while the conditions there are unsuitable in terms of the space available, it provides outstanding educational services, particularly in the area of special education. All involved deserve some degree of certainty as to where this project is going. A very suitable site has been identified in the Janeville housing estate in Carrigaline. We really need to progress this project. Unfortunately, enrolment numbers in the school have been suffering because of the lack of certainty. That is very unfair on the principal, the other staff and all involved, including the board of management and so on, who are doing their level best to try to progress this school. The school opened its doors in 2020 and started out with the earlier years. As it has progressed, it has added the other classes every year. Shortly, it will have a full complement from junior infants through to sixth class. The space is not adequate where the school is and it simply will not be able to cater for the needs into the future. We need certainty, and I would appreciate if the Minister of State could take that message back and inject some urgency."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan The Deputy's points about the progress are well made. The site has been identified. We now have to make sure that it moves speedily through the Department, given the concerns outlined. I will go back to the planning and building unit and relay the concerns the Deputy has spoken about, not just on the floor of the D\u00e1il, but in conversation and correspondence with me. It is important that we close out stage 1 in a timely fashion and move on to the next stage because this is a huge investment that is hugely needed within the entire school community. I will endeavour to do that."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Schools Building Projects"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_30","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Educational Needs","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_30","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_30.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh The Minister of State will know that the vast majority of parents approaching us with regard to special education have one simple question: when will their child receive an appropriate school place in a school that is appropriately staffed? Is \u00ed mo cheist don Aire St\u00e1it inniu n\u00e1 just that. What actions are the Minister of State and his Department taking to ensure safe staffing levels in all special schools and to ensure that every child has access to a full timetable?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan As Minister of State with responsibility for special education and inclusion, I have met with special school communities across the country, including meeting directly with school principals, and I have heard at first hand the experiences of schools and their families. I am very much aware of the additional challenges our special schools face compared with their mainstream counterparts. In response to this, a number of new measures have been introduced to support special schools. The extension of the administrative deputy principal post to all special schools has been instrumental in assisting principals with leadership and management functions and in supporting learning and parental and community engagement. The allocation of 100 post-primary teaching posts is ensuring that a greater range of national curriculum subjects can be taught to improve student progression and transition. This has facilitated the roll-out of level 1 and level 2 learning programmes. In 2026, for the first time, we saw many students in special schools gaining a State examination certificate on the same day as peers who had completed other State examinations. Since 2023, the National Educational Psychological Service has expanded to all special schools. These schools now have an assigned psychologist. In addition, the education therapy service, ETS, is rolling out, across special schools at first. It is now supporting 64 special schools. The ETS is continuing to expand. Budget 2027 provided \u20ac24 million for the service for next year. In addition to these measures, my Department is also working with the NCSE to further support special schools in relation to a range of issues relating to administration, curriculum and training. Where schools raise concerns regarding staffing resources, this support may include a review of SNA allocations, where requested."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire St\u00e1it ach n\u00ed h\u00e9 seo an taith\u00ed at\u00e1 ag teaghlaigh ar an talamh. Only a couple of weeks ago, families from Carrigaline Community Special School and Belmayne Community Special School were in the audiovisual room telling us about the shocking experiences they have endured. This is only the tip of the iceberg. Special schools around the State are operating with dangerously low staffing levels. We know for a fact that this is causing harm to the welfare and development of some of our most vulnerable children. These families deserve the employment of every tool at the Government's disposal to tackle this crisis. I am sure the Minister of State saw the shocking documentary on Virgin Media Television recently. We saw one particular school using storerooms and accessible bathrooms for one-on-one time with children. The conditions our children are being forced to learn in are unacceptable. The buck stops with the Minister of State and his Department. The measures he has outlined are either ineffective or are not being rolled out fast enough. What can the families expect to see from the Minister of State's Department?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I am acutely aware of this issue. Last spring and early summer, I met with the principals of all of the special schools in five locations across the country to hear at first hand what the challenges are. I am acutely aware of the challenges being faced. This year alone, we increased the budget for special education from \u20ac3 billion to \u20ac3.8 billion. We are investing a considerable amount of money in specialised education. We are going to continue to do that. I assure the Deputy that I have seen the documentaries and the various media pieces. I compliment the leadership of special schools, the teachers, the SNAs and the entire school community on the work they are doing across the country. I meet with and speak with them regularly. I understand the challenges but we are increasing the investment in teachers and SNAs on the one side and, on the other side, in the education therapy service, a new initiative that was in the programme for Government. People were reluctant but we have embraced it and are rolling it out."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh T\u00e1im s\u00e1sta go bhfuil an tAire St\u00e1it tar \u00e9is bualadh leis an m\u00e9id sin scoileanna sa St\u00e1t. I have met with an awful lot of them too. We all share serious concerns about how the new ETB community special schools are being opened with seemingly little planning or preparation. It looks like they are being opened in haste just to get to grips with numbers rather than to genuinely meet the needs of the students. Children are recommended special school places for a reason. It is because they need access to specialist support from occupational therapists, speech and language therapists, psychologists and behavioural specialists who will intervene with the students, their families and the school staff. Neither the special school in Carrigaline nor the one in Belmayne has a full-time functioning multidisciplinary team. This is needed immediately. The consequence of this failure for some of our most vulnerable children has been that they have been punished with suspensions. Carrigaline Community Special School has been reported to have had 18 official suspensions. This should not be happening. It would not be happening if the necessary supports were in place. Will the Minister of State ensure that the full complement of staff is in place going forward in community special schools? Will he ensure that the same is true for every other special school sa St\u00e1t?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan We have made huge investments in special schools. We opened four special schools last year. One of these was under the auspices of one of the religious organisations so we are going one way or the other. Many patron bodies are coming forward and we are engaging. I take the Deputy's fundamental point. Many times, we and other states have been criticised in respect of our education and health systems. It has been said that the State is not providing or opening facilities. The ETBs are State bodies. We need to make sure that we open further special schools. We will have to because international commentary by academics in respect of inclusive education points to a need for more special schools within the country. We will continue to open them. We must also make sure the specialised resources are available at each level to each and every school. I am continuing to engage, as are the Department and the NCSE, as regards providing the specialised supports that are necessary right across the special school and special class community."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Educational Needs"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Schools Building Projects","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_21","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_31.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne I seek an update on the progress of the school building project at St. Joseph's Patrician College, better known as the Bish, in Galway city and when it will move to the next stage."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan The school building project for St. Joseph's Patrician College, the Bish, in Galway represents an important element of the Department of Education and Youth's overall building programme. This project is devolved to the Le Ch\u00e9ile Schools Trust for delivery. The project will deliver a new purpose-built school building on a new site to accommodate a long-term projected enrolment of over 1,000 post-primary students and will include the provision of four special education classrooms. The project is currently at stage 2B, the detailed design stage. Following confirmation of planning permission in December 2024, the stage 2B support was submitted to the Department in April 2026. The report is undergoing a detailed technical and cost review in line with infrastructure guidelines. This month, Department officials contacted the school to advise that the project remains under review in the context of the national development plan parameters and the overall prioritisation of capital investment. It is expected that the next tranche of projects to proceed to tender will be published in 2027. Prioritisation will continue over the coming months to identify this next tranche of projects. This will be informed by the latest available demographic and capacity data and the Department's energy and condition inventory, the validation of which is due to be completed by early 2027. The project for the Bish will be considered as part of the prioritisation process along with other projects that are at the required stage of readiness. The new site for the development is part of a land-swap arrangement with the University of Galway. The future use of the existing Nun's Island campus is a matter for the school authorities and relevant stakeholders. I thank the Deputy for raising the issue of this project. I assure him of the continued commitment of the Department of Education and Youth to advancing investment in school infrastructure, including in Galway."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne I hope that the Bish can progress to the 2027 tranche of schools to go to construction. It is imperative. It is planned for a 1,000-pupil school. The redevelopment will be on a site at Dangan. The school has planning permission. It is very important in terms of catchment in Galway city where there are pressures on capacity. It is important that we progress the Bish school project. They were very disappointed that it was not on the original list of schools. I will continue to work with the Minister, Deputy Naughton, to ensure that it is delivered, and that the project is progressed to the tender and construction stage from 2027 onwards."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan I think that I answered the Deputy's previous question on this as well. I assure the Deputy that both I and the Minister, Deputy Naughton, are acutely aware of it. There has been engagement with the school authorities. This is a huge investment in education within Galway. I know that Department officials have been in contact with the school in relation to a few issues, but we are moving forward with it, and it will be considered in the next tranche which will be some time in 2027. It is a huge investment in education right across Galway. I can assure the Deputy that we are working on it, and Department officials are liaising very closely with the school authorities on the next stages for this development."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Schools Building Projects"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":28,"speakerCount":8},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel Grealish","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty Chaith n\u00edos m\u00f3 n\u00e1 12,000 duine de 75 bliain d\u2019aois n\u00f3 n\u00edos m\u00f3 breis agus 24 uair an chloig i rann\u00f3ga \u00e9igeand\u00e1la in\u00e1r n-ospid\u00e9il. Is iad seo \u00e1r dtuismitheoir\u00ed agus seantuismitheoir\u00ed, agus is daoine iad at\u00e1 tinn, scanraithe agus traochta. C\u00e1 bhfuil an d\u00ednit? C\u00e1 bhfuil an meas? N\u00edl s\u00e9 seo ceart ar chor ar bith. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 cru\u00e1lach. T\u00e1 srianta earca\u00edochta ag cur cosc ar choinn\u00ed riachtanacha agus ag cur othair i mbaol, fad is at\u00e1 altra\u00ed traen\u00e1ilte ag fanacht ar thairiscint\u00ed fosta\u00edochta buana. Cad sa diabhal at\u00e1 ar si\u00fal? Is faoin Aire Sl\u00e1inte at\u00e1 an fhreagracht f\u00e1il r\u00e9idh leis na bacanna, baill foirne a earc\u00fa agus othair a chosaint. Some 12,106 people aged 75 years and over spent more than 24 hours in emergency departments in the first half of this year. That is an increase of almost 21%. These are already sick people. They are our parents and grandparents. They are left waiting through the day, into the night and into the day again. They are exhausted, frightened and in pain. These are people who have worked hard all their lives. They have raised their families. They are the people who built this country, and it is shameful that an elderly person has to go through this. When you are ill at that age, spending more than 24 hours in an accident and emergency unit is an ordeal. Where is the dignity? Where is the compassion? Does the Minister know what this is? It is cruelty. It is absolutely cruel what is happening to our elderly people. Older patients accounted for over 81% of the national increase in waits exceeding 24 hours. Almost two thirds of patients aged 75 years and over spent more than six hours in our emergency departments across the State, and according to the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, last month was the worst September on record for hospital overcrowding. Hospital managers are now telling us very clearly that recruitment restrictions are preventing them from filling essential posts, and this is putting patients' safety at risk. In the mid-west alone, there are 350 vacant posts. Management is reporting that it has been unable to recruit since last June because of the HSE's employment restrictions. The people who are responsible for safe services are warning of daily risks while being denied the authority to recruit. What we are seeing now is unprecedented. Senior managers speaking out in the way they are speaking out is unprecedented, and they are doing so because they are telling us that they have no other choice. They are very worried. These are priority posts that hospitals have been asked to identify. They have identified them, and they are still not being allowed to fill them. What in God's name is going on? Back in April 2024, the Minister's predecessor and the HSE appointed a support team to tackle overcrowding in the mid-west. Two and half years on, the occupancy rate there is 122%. Managers are telling us that the situation is going to get worse, and are warning that planned procedures will inevitably be cancelled if this continues. That means more patients left in pain. It means more families getting the call to tell them that the operation they have been waiting months for is cancelled. The Minister's winter plan depends on seven-day services, extended diagnostics and safe staffing, but who is going to deliver that if hospitals cannot recruit? Newly qualified nurses and midwives cannot get permanent positions, yet hospitals have vacancies."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty Is the Minister going to immediately fund and empower health regions to fill urgent posts, clinically prioritise vacancies and remove the barriers blocking recruitment? Will she ensure that permanent offers are issued to newly qualified nurses and midwives where the vacancies exist? What additional staffed hospital beds and rehabilitation places will she open? These are our parents and grandparents. They deserve dignity and safe care. They also deserve answers from the Minister about what she plans to do today to make their care safe."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill) I thank Deputy Doherty. It is an absolute priority for everybody in this House that we do not have people waiting on hospital trolleys. It is a key marker of patient safety, but it is also a key marker of dignity and how we treat our people. It has been an imperative for me the entire time that I have been Minister for Health. When I started, we had 617 people on hospital trolleys. This morning there are 340. Our safe threshold is 280. There are so many different hospitals that have improved and sustained that improvement. I will speak about Drogheda in particular. It was a particular flashpoint. Everyone is aware of how difficult it was in and around Christmas 2024 and January 2025. There was a particular problem with ambulances queueing up to try to get into Drogheda hospital. There are no patients on trolleys in Drogheda this morning, and they have sustained that improvement throughout the past 18 months. They have seriously improved. Similarly, Cavan was a hotspot for hospital trolleys over weekends and on Monday mornings. Again, it has improved and sustained that improvement. It is a credit to them, and everybody working there, that they have employed different processes. Demand has increased everywhere. Demand has increased in Beaumont Hospital, but they do not have an unsafe situation in relation to trolleys this morning. Demand has increased across the board. It has increased in Limerick and Cork. The Deputy is right. He has identified two hospitals where have been particular calls. However, may I point out a couple of things in relation to those hospitals? When I started, there were on average 90 to 100 people on trolleys in Limerick every day. There are now 36. Again, that is 36 too many, but there are 17 spaces available in the virtual ward. They are figures from this morning. There are 17 spaces in the virtual ward. Dr. Colm Henry and the senior clinical team visited Limerick hospital during the summer to test all of the safety parameters. While healthcare is always a risk, and we will never say that every day is safe, Limerick has the safe staffing framework in place. It is safe staffed. It will require, as every hospital will, more staff next year. It has the second highest recruitment of any hospital in this country. Some 139 people were recruited into this hospital just this year. That is higher than James's, the Mater and Beaumont. Cork is another place where there has been an articulation of patient safety and recruitment challenges. Some 233 people have been recruited into the hospital. That is the highest by some distance of any hospital in this country, and yet there are 40 to 44 people on trolleys today and yesterday, but there were 11 beds vacant in the South Infirmary. There are 15 beds vacant in the South Infirmary today. We opened a new community nursing unit there just last week with 35 new spaces. We have increased spaces in Mallow hospital from 37 to 90, and I am pleased to say that all of those spaces are now used. We have increased capacity not just to the individual hospitals but to the areas around them that support them. A crucial part of what we are trying to do is local injury units to try to keep people who do not need to be in hospitals, such as category 4 and 5 patients and even category 3 patients, out of them in the first instance. The local injury units have played a big part in relation to that. Roscommon provides enormous support with 20,000 people attending there in a year. A new local injury unit is opening in Ballina to support Mayo. Indeed, in the Deputy's constituency, a new community nursing unit opened this winter will provide support to Letterkenny hospital, which has 35 delayed discharges of care. I take this so seriously, as the Deputy does, and I thank him for raising it because it is important that we articulate this every day. I take it so seriously because when I go into a hospital emergency room, whether I go in on a scheduled or an unscheduled basis, which I often do, every person waiting there has their dignity. Every person there is important to all of us. Every person there is our family. It is because of patient safety and dignity that we have this focus on urgent and emergency care. It is so very important. This morning, I joined the trolley call at 11 a.m. to check in and see how things were going but crucially, what the preparations were for this weekend. In Galway when we started this week, there were 64 patients on trolleys. Today, there are only 14. Why do things change and why is it not consistent? It requires whole region integration and the full seven day focus on making sure patients are not left on trolleys."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty I listened to the Minister's response. While listening to her, I was trying to think about me as the son or daughter of one of those elderly patients - one of the 12,106 people over the age of 75 who have their dignity stripped away from them because of what is happening. They are forced to wait in accident and emergency departments for over 24 hours while sick, worried and concerned. What the Minister has said today gives no reassurance to them. The situation has got worse under the Minister's leadership. There are 2,000 more people at this point in time who are waiting over 24 hours who are elderly than there were this time last year. The Minister talks about Limerick. The trolley count in Limerick is likely to exceed in October this year the figure it stood at last year. They are the realities. I am not talking about one individual hospital. I am talking about the facts right across the network. We have a serious, serious problem. Will the Minister lift the recruitment embargo and remove the restrictions that are there?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle I thank the Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty Hospitals that were asked to do so have identified priority posts and they are not being allowed to fill them. In my time in politics, we have never seen senior management-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Deputy Doherty should conclude, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty -----sit down with politicians and say I have to speak out because I am worried about the safety of my patients."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle The Minister to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I ask the Deputy-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty What I hear from the Minister-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle The Minister is responding, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty -----is that everything is okay and it is far from it, I am sorry to tell the Minister."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler Time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel Grealish","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Noel Grealish Sit down."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty Do not wave your finger at me when I am speaking on behalf of patients."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel Grealish","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Noel Grealish Sit down."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty I am speaking on behalf of people in my constituency who are worried and I will take no lectures from people on the Government side telling me to sit down. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle will do his job and only the Leas-Cheann Comhairle."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler Then listen to him."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Deputy Doherty, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty It is disgraceful when I am raising a very serious matter and the Minister knows that, in fairness to her."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle The Minister to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill Well, let us take the facts seriously. The reality is that demand has increased in every area and every hospital. I look at it on a whole of hospital basis every single day. I look at it every single day so you tell me why Beaumont is different to Cork. Both of them have recruited. Both of them have the same demand pressures. Both have needs for the future into 2027, which is what this budget has delivered but Beaumont has nine people on trolleys whereas Cork has 44. They are using things differently. Tell me why St. James's, one of the biggest, busiest hospitals in this country in an area of particular socioeconomic disadvantage only has ten people on trolleys, notwithstanding the pressures it faces, but Cork has 44? Why does St. Vincent's, in such a strong area, consistently have 49 people on trolleys? The reality is that many hospitals have improved significantly over this year but there are about six or seven hospitals that have not. They are Cork, St. Vincent's in my own area and Limerick, which has improved enormously since I took over and there are only 36 on trolleys in comparison to 100."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maurice Quinlivan That is not true."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill That is 36 too many but the facts are here every single day. The reality is that there are some hospitals that have not improved that need to improve. Bizarrely, the ones that consistently do not improve, i.e. Cork, have had the highest recruitment. If there was a correlation between recruitment and performance I would agree with the Deputy but there is not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maurice Quinlivan Wow."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_33","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Visit of Utah Delegation","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_33","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Before calling on Deputy Jennifer Whitmore, I ask colleagues to join me in offering a warm c\u00e9ad m\u00edle f\u00e1ilte to our guests in the Distinguished Visitors' Gallery today from Utah. They include the Governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, First Lady Abby Cox, Senator Mike McKell, Senator Wayne Harper, Representative Logan Monson, Representative Paul Cutler and director of economics, Jefferson Moss. They are here with Senator Mark Daly. They are more than welcome and I hope they enjoy their visit to Leinster House. Members were all very well behaved this morning, in case our guests were wondering. I call Deputy Whitmore."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Visit of Utah Delegation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_34","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Leaders' Questions (Resumed)","counts":{"speechCount":18,"speakerCount":5},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_34","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle The Members were all very well behaved this morning, in case our guests were wondering. I call Deputy Whitmore."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore This week, a harrowing documentary about the medical gaslighting of women was broadcast by Virgin Media. It featured women who spent years in excruciating pain before eventually being diagnosed with conditions like endometriosis and premenstrual dysphoric disorder, PMDD. It featured women whose incredibly serious and debilitating healthcare concerns were repeatedly dismissed or minimised by doctors and women who had to travel abroad for surgery for endometriosis because the specialist care is just not available here. It is shameful that a country as wealthy as Ireland is still exporting so many women for essential healthcare. It is estimated that one in seven women in Ireland have endometriosis. That is 300,000 women and yet, many in the medical profession seem to have barely heard of it. How else can we explain why it takes a woman an average of 14 years to get a diagnosis? That is 14 years of not being listened to, 14 years of being patronised, 14 years of missed diagnoses and 14 years of pain, trauma and fear with hugely negative impacts on the lives of tens of thousands of women and girls all over the country. I acknowledge the Minister has invested in women's healthcare and in endometriosis care specifically but we were at such a low base that any level of funding at this stage is just a drop in the ocean of what is required. The wraparound and surgical services that are needed are often simply not there when women eventually get a diagnosis. \"Prime Time\" recently featured a doctor, Dr. Rachel O'Connor, who was forced to take out an enormous loan and travel to Poland for her surgery. She was told if she had not had that surgery, she would have died. This lifesaving treatment is currently being denied to many women in Ireland. The other related issue is the medical gaslighting women routinely experience. Women are told the agonising pain they are in is all in their heads. Women are told they are just hormonal or experiencing anxiety. Women are talked down to and patronised by too many medics. My colleague, Senator Patricia Stephenson, has done a huge amount of work in this area and she has a proposal she is hoping the Minister will take on. If any woman presents with the same symptoms three times in any 12-month period, her GP should reflect, review and rethink the case. The GP should reflect on what the patient is saying, review her symptoms and rethink by referring the patient, where appropriate, for specialist tests. This is guidance that was taken onboard in the UK in 2025. It is called Jess' Rule, named after a 27-year-old woman who unfortunately lost her life from cancer despite many consultations. There really is no reason why this guidance should not be rolled out here. What will the Minister do to ensure women are not forced to travel abroad for lifesaving endometriosis care? Is she concerned about medical gaslighting for women? Will she introduce the three point guidance for GPs to reflect, review and rethink when women repeatedly present with the same or worsening unexplained symptoms?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill) I thank the Deputy for raising this really important issue. Let me answer them in a slightly different order. On medical gaslighting and how women are treated, let me completely acknowledge what the Deputy is saying. Let me completely acknowledge women have been treated differently in the medical system and that research that was done on men is applied to women in circumstances where that is not necessarily true. Let me bring in another area, heart failure, where women's presentation of heart failure is materially different to men. Let me compliment the work of Ken McDonald and the Irish Heart Foundation who have tried to drive awareness about this. We have a programme called Her Heart Matters which tries to identify that this is very different. That is a different example but another example of how medical presentation is different. I thank Senator Stephenson for the work she has done. We have invested \u20ac2 million for the first time into research in women's health through the Health Research Board. I will ask it to connect with the Senator on the work she has done and see how that fits in with the broader pieces of academic research that are being done to try to advance women's healthcare more specifically. Deputy Whitmore raised endometriosis as her third point and she is so very right. She is so very right that the starting point was so low. How many women have I spoken to who have been suffering for 20, 25 and 30 years with chronic pain, not being understood, having to leave work, having a completely different fertility experience and having a totally different family life? I compliment the Deputy on her work and Sinn F\u00e9in on its work along with Labour. Everybody has raised this in different ways but that is why I brought women with endometriosis into the Department of Health on 1 September last year so we could hear directly from them and from their experience. We did it again in March. The most heartbreaking thing for me that day was looking at two young girls in their school uniforms who were already suffering debilitating pain as a consequence of endometriosis, which is not spoken about enough. As a consequence, the CEO of the HSE and I wrote to every single GP to try to raise awareness that this impacts one in seven women. That is one in seven women, not one in seven people. It affects one in seven women and it is so important because this is so impactful. We introduced a programme to try to fund emergency surgeries abroad because it is a shame on me and everybody else that a doctor in our health system used her HSE salary and a loan to get emergency surgery in a different jurisdiction. We have to fund that on an emergency two-year basis, but we are trying to develop the longer term surgical pathways. We have developed relationships with a specialist clinic in Bordeaux. We have developed a programme where our surgeons are training abroad, and we will have a continual series of fellowships for surgical training and endometriosis so that we never end up in this situation again. Meanwhile, we are trying to recruit specialists as best we can, such as colorectal surgeons to work alongside gynaecological surgeons. I visited one of the super-regional centres in Tallaght, where a new surgeon is doing incredible robotics surgery. However, the Deputy is right; the crisis for women is now and they need those surgeries. We are trying both to address the immediate need by funding emergency surgeries abroad, and to develop a longer term pipeline. I know as well as every single other person here how much more we have to do on that. However, in the last 12 months, we have been on a different pathway, in terms of both awareness and care."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore I thank the Minister for her response. It is clear she is passionate about this area, but I am afraid we are not moving quickly enough with this. Last October, the Minister announced \u20ac16 million in funding for endometriosis care and 65.5 new staff. As of September, only one of those staff was in place, according to a parliamentary question response I got in September, with one more being onboarded. There is still a huge way to go. I can understand why as an emergency measure women have to go overseas because we do not have the capacity here, but women in Ireland are so sick and tired of being exported every single time our health service is not able to meet our needs. The first response we are given is to send us abroad. It is not the way to treat people, to take them away from their jobs, homes, communities and families. It is costly, it is stressful and there are language barriers. We need to be able to treat these women here. I also think a cultural shift is needed in the healthcare system. Women need to be listened to and believed, and our medics need to be trained to support them. This is very important, and that cultural shift has to come from the Government."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill That is one of the reasons we made a presumptive diagnosis in the framework for endometriosis, so that the woman did not have to prove it and would be believed and listened to. Women are the best narrators of their own experience. The cultural shift is really important. We have employed MISE, phenomenal advocates for endometriosis, to go into schools, workplaces and maybe the Oireachtas to talk about endometriosis and its impact. The Deputy is right; we do not want to send women abroad. I want them to get surgeries here, which is why I demanded that an additional 100 surgeries happen in that last quarter of last year to meet some of the need. We did 142, but that is not enough. There is still a need for specialist services. If I have a choice between funding a woman to go abroad or her not getting that surgery in Ireland, of course we are going to facilitate her going abroad to make sure she gets the type of specialist surgery we are trying to build towards. We have also placed a level of priority on this whereby we will have an EU Presidency conference on 3 December to shine a light on this, because it is not just Ireland's problem. It is Germany's problem and France's problem. This is under-researched, underdiagnosed and undertreated right across Europe. On St. Patrick's Day, I visited a specialist clinic in Germany with the German health minister, again to shine a light on the issue. Even through the EU Presidency, we are placing a focus on endometriosis, which is necessary."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Marie Sherlock Earlier this year, the Minister wrote in the HSE national service plan that we were to get rigorous oversight and transparent reporting over HSE funding. This was to be the year of no supplementary budgets, the year when agency spend was going to go down, not up. How is it then that ten months later, the Minister and this Government are about to record the second largest deficit in the history of our health service, a deficit with very real and potentially deadly consequences for patient safety on the ground? We have heard from Cork with regard to CT scanners lying idle because of a lack of sanctioned staff. We know the national neonatal transport service, NNTP, carrying the most fragile and vulnerable babies across our country has been threatened because of a lack of sanctioned maternity cover. We hear from Limerick and Naas that they are terrified of what is in store and what is going to happen this winter. At the heart of this crisis, the Minister, her Department and the Department of public expenditure and reform are failing to plan. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail, as Roy Keane memorably told us 24 years ago. That is exactly what is happening now. The Government's budget is based on a 2% demographic growth, yet we are seeing actual demand in the health service far outpace that. Emergency department, ED, admissions are up 6.75% this year, general admissions are up 3.5% and there was a 10% increase in outpatient waiting lists last year. I have replies to parliamentary questions from the HSE telling me it is forecasting demand for next year only now, after it has got its budget allocation. No wonder the health service is in crisis. No commercially viable business would ever operate like that, so why does the Government make the HSE, with a budget of \u20ac29 billion, operate like that? It is a complete nonsense. If we are to understand the pressure hospitals are under, we should look at the reliance on surge capacity before winter kicks in. I have HSE internal documents which show the south west was relying on 88% more surge beds at the start of October than at the same time last year. In the west and north west, it is 51% higher; in Dublin and south, it is 50%; and winter has yet to come. This is terrifying, and God forbid there is a flu or any other major health event. There are two fundamental issues here: how you plan and, crucially, how you respond when your plan goes wrong. The response by the Government and the Department speaks volumes. We all know agency staff are more expensive than those directly employed, yet when I look at the internal HSE cost and productivity report, we see direct pay is being suppressed. It is \u20ac133 million under what is budgeted to the start of October, yet agency is surging ahead by \u20ac255 million. All that is taking place alongside an embargo on recruiting graduates. It makes no sense. Then we look at community services. We are all about ensuring more investment in community services to keep people out of hospitals, yet that is where the cutbacks are happening - cutbacks to one-on-one top-up care in nursing homes - and those patients will end up back in hospital. Will the Minister commit to employing those nursing and other health professional graduates who were told they would have jobs in the health service and are desperately needed? Will she commit to a supplementary budget beyond what is needed for drugs? What is she going to do to end the fanciful, flawed budget-making that is taking place every single year within the Department, which ensures we are underproviding for our health service year after year?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill In the first instance, it is completely predictable that nurses will graduate every year. That is what we want. The State invests in training our nurses and we want them to stay in Ireland. More nurses are staying in Ireland than we have ever seen before, according to the NMBI, not me, and we want them to stay. Some 83% of graduate nurses this year have been offered positions, which is what should happen. It is incumbent on every regional executive officer to plan strategically for their recruitment for the following year. They got a budget uplift of 6% last year and 6% this year, higher than other parts of the Government, and they have an obligation to plan every year for what is known, such as things that are going to open. These include new community nursing beds, a surgical hub and the fact graduate nurses will come on stream and be available to work in the system. These are things that are planned. This year, with the NSP, I am requiring a strategic recruitment plan from each region to show, as HSE Dublin and North East is well able to do, how recruitment is going to be used each year. The Deputy mentioned a CT scanner in Cork. I go back to the fact Cork University Hospital has hired 233 people. Why has it not prioritised resources for that CT scanner? Beaumont has. I went into Beaumont one Saturday morning and there were 60 people in the emergency department. Six or seven of them needed a CT scan. I went in and saw a CT scanner that was not being used. The lights were turned off. It was a brand new investment not being used. The region recognised the problem and prioritised investment and resources to make that CT operational, which it now is. It is about strategic, intelligent decision-making by everybody. It cannot just be about growth. The health budget has doubled in ten years, and in the last five years, we have had a 52% increase in taxpayers' money going into the health system. There has been a 33% increase in the number of people working in the health system, but only a 16% increase in the actual activity in the health system, including when accounting for complexity. The most expensive part of healthcare are inpatient day cases, not emergency departments. Activity there has increased by only 2%, notwithstanding a budget increase of 6%. We plan based on demographics; that is what we do. We plan to grow based on demographics, because we have already invested in so many people but we are not using them in the correct way. We have not been using the integration that should happen in all the different regions. I have demonstrated this repeatedly throughout the year when talking about Mallow and CUH, but I see it happening in other regions, particularly HSE Dublin and North East, where that integration has been much more successfully achieved and where recruitment has been strategic and planned. It is important now that the Oireachtas see where the strategic recruitment plan is for next year. It is important now that everybody has transparency, including the REOs, about how they will use the additional 3,000 people that may go into the health system next year, on top of the 3,000 that went in this year. That 3,000 was contingent on reducing agency spend and overtime by reorganisation, redeployment and making better use of resources. That has to happen, too."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Marie Sherlock I think we are in parallel universes here. Directors of hospitals tell me they are being blocked from recruiting their graduate nurses, and the Minister is saying something very different. We need to get the truth. The Minister talks about demographic growth but she has not mentioned once the rising complexity of care within our health system, which is driving the increase in admissions and the issues within our hospitals. The reality is we have a serious crisis in our hospitals right now with regard to delayed transfers of care. For about 215 days this year, we have seen over 500 people stuck in hospitals. They no longer need to be there but have nowhere else to go, and the Government has no answer to that. I do not use names lightly but I am thinking about a man today, Christy Murphy. He is in a nursing home because of the benefit of one-on-one care through the HSE. He was in St. James's Hospital for many months because they could not find a nursing home for him and then they found a nursing home in Finglas. The family, who are from D\u00fan Laoghaire, are so grateful but they have been told that the one-on-one care has been pulled and that patient will end up back in St. James's Hospital. That is wrong. I am hearing nothing from the Minister about prioritising community care and ensuring we get people out of our hospitals when they no longer need to be there, and ensuring that those graduates are actually recruited."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill It is so important to prioritise community care, which is why the challenge in here is articulated in terms of acute hospitals and not always in terms of community care. Let us look at that because the acutes have always pulled from community, as the Deputy is aware, but the resources need to go into community. That is why we are trying to focus on making sure there are beds going into model 2 hospitals like Mallow and Bantry. The Minister of State, Deputy Kieran O'Donnell, opened a community nursing unit with 50 beds in Midleton last week, an area the Deputy is very familiar with. We will be opening community nursing units in Donegal and Kerry for the same purpose. All of these are facilities to try to get people out of the hospital, and that investment is just as important. What I find challenging is the conflict between the articulation that hospitals need more money but we also need to get people out. When we put money into other hospitals and facilities, they have to be used. Those beds cannot lie idle. People need to move out of those hospitals, so it has to be both. However, it also has to be articulated as both. It cannot always be more money for CUH but not recognising how much has gone into that region. I am thinking of Mallow, Bantry, the South Infirmary beds, the additional private beds and the new community nursing unit. It has to be everything, and it has to be articulated that way too."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless Recently, I was shocked to see a bizarre advertisement on the issue of consent, funded by the Department of justice. The advertisement featured an elderly couple greeting their grandchildren with a hug at a family event and suggests that they, the grandparents, should have sought consent first. This is totally wrong in how it demonises elderly grandparents and in the shocking waste of taxpayers' money. Consent is very important when it comes to sexual relations between people. However, equating these types of relationships, with a granny giving a hug to a grandchild is completely inaccurate. It is wrong to conflate these two issues of sexual violence, on the one hand, and affection exchanged by a grandmother to a grandchild, on the other. Why is the State asking grannies to second-guess themselves when it comes to hugging their grandchildren? Why is the State planting a seed in a child's mind that it is somehow dangerous to receive a hug from their grandmother? Grandparents do a tremendous job in this country. They have raised one generation and, in many cases, they are helping with childcare for the next generation. Why is the State in this space at all? This is family relationships. It is not a criminal issue either, and it represents an incredible overreach by the State into the private lives of our citizens. It is not sinister for a grandparent to greet their grandchild with a hug at a family event. During the Covid years, we saw how grandparents were deprived of contact with their grandchildren. We know from Alone and many other organisations that loneliness has such a tremendously damaging impact on grandparents, the elderly and senior citizens. It is bad for mental and bad physical health. How much taxpayers' money did the Government spend on this advertisement? Will the Government apologise to grandparents? The Government needs to get its priorities right when it comes to spending. Spending in relation to sexual violence and gender-based violence is very important but it is clearly being mismanaged in this regard. When it comes to priorities, a few days ago The Irish Times led with a story about Tusla having no special-care place for a 14-year-old girl. This girl has a learning disability. She travelled across a county, was brought to a house, was continuously fuelled with drugs and was repeatedly raped. Of the 26 special-care places, 11 of them remain closed as a result of staffing shortages. That is a priority. When will the Minister get her priorities straight?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I want to be very clear that this is not a Government campaign and that is not the view of Government. It is not the view of the Minister for justice, who made his view very clear this morning. The Government does not support that advertisement or that campaign. There is a broader question around consent, which is important, and that is highlighted and targeted. As the Deputy said, it is important that we are having a consent conversation. That is partly why the SPHE programme in schools has been updated to have broader conversations than we had previously about consent and what is appropriate and what is not. That does not extend to this advertisements or to grandparents in any way. Grandparents are an incredibly important part of family life and every child's life. The advertisement was inappropriate and demeaning to grandparents. It has been removed by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, following the Minister for justice's engagement with officials. It goes without saying that having loving grandparents in somebody's life is an incredibly positive thing and is not something to be campaigned against. It does not represent the views of Government in any sense. If we set aside that advertisement on that basis, it is still important that there is a broad body of work, which I know the House agrees with, around domestic, sexual, and gender violence more broadly. That work is being led by Cuan and it is important that it continues. It is also important that we clearly distinguish this video, which was an error and does not represent the views of Government, from that different body of work that is being carried out. I acknowledge what the Deputy said in relation to Tusla. Special care is a very difficult working environment. It is an incredibly important part of our response to protecting the most vulnerable children in the State. Difficulties recruiting and retaining staff have been the main limiting factors on the number of beds that are currently open in the different available units. As a consequence, a new special-care worker grade was introduced in January 2025. This offers an improved salary scale, with 20% higher pay at the top of scale compared with the other Tusla social-care worker grade. That is in addition to recruitment initiatives for special care, including Tusla's new children's residential services training college. The reason for that is due to the particularly sensitive, difficult, and important work that is necessary to support some of Ireland's most vulnerable children. Of course, it is important that we discuss this here, and the Deputy is correct to highlight it. The response of the Government is to try to recruit and retain more people and for them to be recompensed appropriately for doing that most special and particularly difficult work."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless This Government funded the advertisement campaign. This is taxpayers' money spent by this Government. The utter contempt the Government has shown to older people and grandparents is unacceptable. It is a Government-funded campaign, and the advertisement suggested that when it comes to sexual abuse and violence in this country, we need to be looking at and investigating our grandparents. How much did the advertisement cost? Will the Government apologise to grandparents? When it comes to the issue of Tusla, it is in contempt of court in relation to the lack of care for vulnerable people. This is happening in real-time. This is not a past scandal. It is happening today. There are 13 children missing from State care for more than six months. That is still happening. Meanwhile the Government is presiding over spending on the most ridiculous advert, which is trying to demonise grandparents."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I thank the Deputy. I reiterate that this is not a Government campaign. There was no question of it being sanctioned by the Government. The Government has service level agreements with many different entities to deliver services on their behalf and this ad was funded without consultation with anyone in government. I want to be absolutely clear that no person in government viewed or sanctioned this ad."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless What about quality control?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill This is not representative of the views of the Government."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless There are no checks on taxpayers' money."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Please allow the Minister."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill It is not representative of the views of the Government. We have service level agreements with a range of different entities across the health, justice and housing systems that deliver services on behalf of the Government. That does not mean we have oversight of every single thing they do. I am saying clearly that the ad has been withdrawn and does not represent the views of the Government. That is crucial."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed (At\u00f3g\u00e1il) - Leaders' Questions (Resumed)"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_35","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_35","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mattie McGrath On Friday, 9 October, at 7.30 p.m, Uisce \u00c9ireann issued a \"do not consume\" notice to over 11,000 customers in south Tipperary. The impression was given that there had been a failure at the Goatenbridge plant that day, that aluminium levels were too high and that urgent action had been taken. Chaos ensued over the following days. I thank the Uisce \u00c9ireann staff on the ground who helped out with the water in the following days. Families, businesses, schools, childcare providers, farmers and vulnerable people were left scrambling for information. What happened, however, was that this was not an urgent decision taken on an extreme measure on a Friday evening. Aluminium levels had, in fact, exceeded the EU safe levels for most of the previous month. Indeed, on 4 October, five days before the \"do not consume\" notice was introduced, aluminium levels in our water were in excess of 2,300 mg per litre, almost 12 times the EU safe level of 200 mg per litre and two and a half times the much higher World Health Organization levels, yet Uisce \u00c9ireann waited five days to inform the public that the water was not safe to consume. What is most concerning is that the community was not given the full picture or the truth. Elected representatives were kept in the dark and the truth only emerged when we put down a freedom of information request. That is not acceptable. Naturally, trust in the safety of public water has been severely damaged and it will take a long time for it to be regained. The public on this line were on a boil water notice all summer. It was the driest summer we have ever had. The whole of Tipperary town has been on a boil water notice since last February. It is a shocking state of affairs in south Tipperary. On the \"do not consume\" notice, Uisce \u00c9ireann said on Friday that a critical upgrade had been completed. How can that be the case if we are still on a boil water notice and we cannot drink the water in the taps? I live in the area. How can the critical upgrades be completed if we still cannot drink the water? This raises fundamental questions about the transparency and lack of accountability in Uisce \u00c9ireann. When Members ask parliamentary questions of Ministers, we are told the Ministers have no responsibility. Fine Gael, the Minister's party, set up Uisce \u00c9ireann under Phil Hogan. It is time that we had accountability to this House because it is accountable to nobody. Does the Minister accept that we cannot allow a situation whereby Uisce \u00c9ireann is completely unaccountable to the House when it comes to operational matters? Will the Government commit to supporting Private Members' legislation of mine and bringing forward its own legislation to make Uisce \u00c9ireann accountable and answerable to parliamentary questions? We cannot have this cabal doing what it is doing. The CEO is getting \u20ac7,500 per week. An increase of over \u20ac100,000 in his salary was approved recently. It is shocking. It beggars belief that this is going on. There is no accountability whatsoever. The public needs full disclosure at all times in respect of safety. Deputy Carroll MacNeill is the Minister for Health. We have not heard a peep from the HSE or the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA. They are all the time telling us that they are monitoring and doing things in conjunction with Irish Water. We have asked questions of them and have had to resort to FOI requests to get answers. This is scandalous. I am glad the Minister of Health is here to take this matter. It is a critical health issue for old people and especially for babies."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill) I thank the Deputy. The \"do not consume\" notice was lifted for customers on the Ardfinnan regional water supply scheme on Monday, 19 October, following consultation with the HSE. The lifting of that notice followed the completion of critical works at Goatenbridge water treatment plant, an extensive and targeted flushing programme across the network, and comprehensive water quality sampling at both the plant and across the regional network over the weekend. However, as the Deputy is aware and has highlighted, customers must continue to boil water before drinking, preparing food and drinks, brushing teeth or making ice as the boil water notice remains in place. The focus for Uisce \u00c9ireann is now on getting to a point where that boil water notice can be lifted as quickly and safely as possible. The completion of works at Goatenbridge water treatment plant is an important step. There will be further testing and monitoring to continue to provide the evidence required. That will be done in consultation with the HSE, which the Deputy correctly identified as a key partner in that regard. That is what is important in determining when the boil water notice can safely be lifted. As the Deputy correctly identified, it impacts many different people, but particularly more vulnerable people. I thank the Deputy for raising the matter."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mattie McGrath I am disappointed with the Minister's reply. As the Minister for Health, she must be concerned about what is happening. Seventy-nine samples were taken during October and 69 of them were above the safe limit, yet we were not told for a month and the public were not informed. There is absolutely no accountability. The Minister said critical works had been completed. We are still on a boil water notice. That is not fit for purpose. If we cannot drink the water and the critical upgrade has been completed, we are in an awful situation. Tipperary town has been on a boil water notice since last February. There is no information as to when the notice will be removed. Many parts of south Tipperary are affected. At points during the summer, 50,000 customers had no water for days and weeks on end. How are businesses supposed to operate? Farmers got no information at all. But for social media, Councillor Molly McGrath and others who talked to people about the issue, many people would not have known about it for days because they are not on social media. The Civil Defence was not used, as it used to be, to leaflet houses and tell people. They were drinking the water. The following week, when I was visiting the people on strike, I got a call from a family who knew nothing about the issue with the water. They were still drinking it. They asked me to drop water to them and I did. I thank the Uisce \u00c9ireann staff on the ground for their help. I also thank the security personnel and the companies that delivered the water. Irish Water is fundamentally not working."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I thank the Deputy. Knowledge of the difficulty is important. I highlight the role of local radio, in particular Tipp FM, which provides an important service to constituents, including being able to highlight issues of this significance. Of course, the boil water notice continues until the issue has been addressed but, pardon the pun, it still has to flush through the system to ensure it is all clear. Ongoing testing is necessary. It is not an immediate solution and there is a boil water notice following the \"do not consume\" notice. Uisce \u00c9ireann's upgrade programme at the plant is nearing completion. It is committed to improving the reliability and resilience of the Ardfinnan regional water supply. It does require sustained investment to strengthen the overall water supply. Throughout the period of the notice, tankers, boiled water and bulk water supplies have been made available to try to support communities across the affected area, which is important. Alternative water supplies will continue to be provided to more vulnerable customers while the boil water notice remains in place."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mattie McGrath Is Irish Water going to be made accountable to this House?"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_36","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation","counts":{"speechCount":41,"speakerCount":20},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty We can all agree that the days and nights are getting colder. People are turning on their heating earlier and are keeping it on for longer to keep their houses warm. Many cannot afford it. One in four households cannot afford their gas bills. More than 320,000 households cannot pay their electricity bills. Families waited desperately for the Government to provide help in the budget but that help never came. There were no energy credits. There was no real support for working families. No action was taken to take on the big energy companies. Over the past fortnight, what have we seen? Energy company after energy company has hiked its prices. The rip-off bills are going in one direction and that is up. The pressure on folks is intense. I will ask the Minister a plain question. How many more families have to fall into arrears before the Government takes action and delivers the measures that people deserve?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Ward Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill) I thank the Deputy. As he is aware, the fuel allowance is paid to 26% of households across the country and that increase of \u20ac5 will take place next year. We have also tried to take the measures we can at a cost of close to \u20ac1.4 billion, which is nearly the total uplift of the Department of Health this year, to try to suppress energy prices in different ways. Carbon tax on home heating oil and gas has been reduced and will not increase in the lifetime of the Government. The rate of carbon tax on kerosene and natural gas has been reduced to \u20ac48.50 per tonne. The extent of the intervention by the Government is not enough to meet everybody's need. It cannot be. It is more than comparable European countries, but we cannot meet every measure of this extraordinary energy crisis created by the war in the Middle East."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aidan Farrelly When is this Government going to take road safety seriously? In a week when we saw the Road Safety Authority, RSA, perform a U-turn on a shambolic plan to introduce breathalysers in pubs, we know that the start reality is that our roads have become a much more dangerous place to be. Statistics published today paint a harrowing picture. Today, there are hundreds of families grieving the tragic loss of a family member and communities grieving the loss of a friend and loved one yet, the number in the Garda traffic corps continues to decline. Simply put, the Government\u2019s response and that of the RSA to road safety does not match the harsh and stark reality on the ground. I have serious questions. Does the Government have any plans to reduce road deaths? Does it have confidence in the Road Safety Authority? Where will that \u20ac1.5 million that the Road Safety Authority was going to spend on breathalysers go?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill The Government is committed to taking the steps that it can to increase road safety. The number of road deaths is not acceptable. We are going into a bank holiday weekend and darker weather. It is incumbent on everybody to make sure that they are slowing down and taking appropriate steps to maintain their own road safety and that of everybody around them. The Garda continues to enforce traffic laws and engage in breathalysing but it is important that every person in this House and everyone we know continue to take the steps we must take to make sure that we are not speeding or taking risky driving decisions, particularly in the wet weather to come this bank holiday weekend."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Wall Last Thursday night, I attended, with my colleague Councillor Pat Balfe and Members of this House, a meeting organised by the Irish Medical Organisation, IMO, and other unions about very serious staffing and patient safety issues at Naas General Hospital in Kildare. We were told that admissions into the emergency department were already 10% above this time last year. There has been a 28% increase in over-75s attending the ED, ambulance admissions are up by 13% on this time last year and it is now not unusual to see over 100 people in the emergency department at any one time. Staff are at breaking point, saying that the hospital is too small for the population it serves, with every corner and nook of the hospital now being used for patient care. Time and again, staff stood up to say that the hospital was dangerously over capacity and that both staff and patient safety was being compromised. Will the Minister respond to these genuine concerns? What plans has her Department to provide additional staff to Naas General Hospital? No staff member at the meeting wanted to contemplate what could happen to patients if this serious problem was not addressed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I thank the Deputy. Naas is an important model 3 hospital. It has had a bigger staff uplift than most other hospitals; it has had a 40% uplift in staff since 2020. That is even in circumstances where it has a very high proportion of agency staff. Naas is one of the hospitals where we should be targeting the new graduate recruitment in particular to make sure that it is not dependent on agency and that it has permanent staff, but there is a very significant uplift in permanent staff. I would also like to highlight and compliment everyone in Naas for the fact that, over the last ten days, there have been seven days in the green threshold, which is the safe emergency department. That is due to their work. There is a very significant increase in staff and they are maintaining a very safe hospital, and that is to their credit."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Roderic O'Gorman \u201cCancer can be cured with herbs\". \"Cancer is actually a yeast\". \"High fevers in young children are a good thing\". This is some of the health \u201cinformation\u201d that was given to participants in the \"A Journey of Healing\" seminar that was held in Ireland last week and is discussed in an article in The Journal. The recommendations came from an Australian citizen who has actually been banned from providing any health services, including advice, by the New South Wales Health Care Complaints Commission. As chair of the Oireachtas cross-party group on cancer, the issue of health misinformation, particularly cancer misinformation, is a real priority for the group members. With the huge proliferation of online sources, some of which are giving misleading, incorrect and deeply dangerous information to patients, will the Minister outline what steps the Government is taking to address this? Will she work with the cross-party group on cancer to bring forward legislative solutions to this deeply dangerous misinformation?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I thank the Deputy for highlighting this and for his own work on HPV and the HPV vaccine, which he raises consistently. In many ways, it speaks to the intersection of this \u2013 the importance of preventing cancer where possible and the importance of good-quality information and of trusting that information. This is a state that is based on science and respecting science. We have seen other states move away from that very fundamental principle but that will not happen in Ireland. We are committed to the truth about health and vaccinations and to science-based, evidence-based decision-making in healthcare. That is going to be the case whether it is bringing a new drug into Ireland, being very honest about its efficacy or otherwise, being very honest about the efficacy of different types of vaccination, and being transparent in how we make decisions. I am happy to work with every group on improving cancer care. We are evaluating the cancer strategy at the moment and will be developing a new one. It is really important that the Deputy\u2019s cross-party group is involved in that too."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless Vape shops are growing at an extraordinary rate across the country. Regional and small towns often have three or four popping up overnight. We all know that vape shops are targeting young people in terms of smell, their other senses and marketing. Some of these vape shops are located very close to schools and appeal very strongly to our young people. They are a huge concern. There appear to be no regulations that assist local authorities, the Department of Health or any other State agency to try to restrict the proliferation of vape shops in our country. I am asking the Minister to engage with us on this and try to restrict vape shops. I ask she Minister research the matter. I am also concerned with the lack of monitoring on this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill The Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O\u2019Connor, brought legislation through the House to ban smells, flavours, colours and anything else that made nicotine addiction products more attractive to children. That has passed and gone to the President to be signed. That is an important part of this. We are already in a conversation with local authorities in respect of the proliferation of vape shops, which are bad for public health in terms of the availability of vapes and which are not good for our towns and villages, given the proliferation of such disgusting shops. We are already in that space and would welcome the Deputy\u2019s support for it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-O'Sullivan.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan I welcome a line in this year\u2019s budget that got very little attention, namely, the pilot scheme to support early access to new medicines. For the 300,000 people in this country living with a rare disease, that budget line is incredibly important. As the Minister knows, Irish patients still wait longer than most of our European counterparts for access to these medicines. It is often in excess of 800 days. For a person with Duchenne muscular dystrophy or Friedreich's ataxia, those 800 days or so are time they do not have. This summer, we saw Skyclarys approved for Friedreich's ataxia after a long and exhausting campaign, so I welcome the early access scheme that the Department is devising. How much has been allocated to the pilot scheme? Which medicines and conditions will it cover? There are rumours that it might exclusively be aimed at cancer, so I ask that the Minister clarify. When can we expect the first patients to benefit from the scheme?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill This year is evidence that we have prioritised drugs for rare diseases and the speed with which they are approved. What we cannot control is the conduct or participation of the drugs companies. The Deputy will be aware, particularly in relation to Skyclarys, that we were waiting for an extremely long time for the drugs company to submit the different pieces of documentation, including its commercial proposal. I am very glad that it got resolved in a way that was cost effective and, therefore, possible for the State. There are patients now getting that medication, as there are patients getting givinostat. Indeed, I have met many who have now got it. We have been able to execute getting that to patients very quickly. We will continue with that focus but we are not going to prejudge what those applications may be or what those medicines that come to the Irish market will be. As the Deputy is aware, we had to convince and invite Italfarmaco to bring givinostat to Ireland because, as a small market, we compete in terms of attractiveness. We had to work very hard to even have the application made."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne The integrated design team for a 300-bed block project for University Hospital Galway was appointed and approved last May. Ward blocks A and B, each comprising of 150 beds, are the first two phases of the capital programme for University Hospital Galway, which will be followed by a cancer centre, new laboratories, a permanent helipad and a new emergency department. What engagement has the Minister had with the HSE, the Saolta University Health Care Group, and the regional executive officer, REO, of HSE West and North West on the designation of blocks A and B, or initially block A, under the Critical Infrastructure Act 2026 or are we at an advanced enough stage to designate the project if another designation list goes to Cabinet this year?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I thank the Deputy for his repeated advocacy on behalf of University Hospital Galway and the master plan to develop this over some period. I also thank him for facilitating a meeting recently between myself and Cancer Care West to be able to discuss some of the detail of that. With regard to critical infrastructure designations, there is more work to be done by the project team and hospital, but it is exactly the kind of project we would like to see included in critical infrastructure processes. The hospital has to get to a further stage of the business case and planning application preparation to reach that point, but I will be an enthusiastic supporter of it then."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh I raise mental health services for young people in Kildare South. As the Minister of State will be aware, we are in a crisis in youth mental health, with services oversubscribed across the State. In Kildare, the situation is particularly acute. Some 14 people died by suicide in Kildare in 2023 and, in recent times, one of the essential services supporting young people was shut down. I welcome the \u20ac1.1 million investment announced in budget 2027 for a new Jigsaw service in Newbridge, which is badly needed. However, there is currently no building for the service to operate out of and no obvious alternative. Will the Minister of State personally intervene to provide for a new building and ensure that there is no further delay to the establishment of the new Jigsaw service in Droichead Nua?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler) I thank the Deputy for her question and for welcoming the extension of the Jigsaw services for young children and adolescents who suffer with mild to moderate mental health challenges. I recently opened a service in Waterford, which was only the second in the past three years because Jigsaw changed its model of care for a while. However, I am delighted that, working with the Minister, I secured \u20ac3.6 million in the budget to extend the provision of Jigsaw services across Kildare, D\u00fan Laoghaire, Cavan-Monaghan and Sligo-Leitrim, which will be welcome. The funding provided for the Kildare area was the largest proportion at \u20ac1.1 million. It will be a hub-and-spoke model based in Newbridge, with spokes coming out of it to cover the whole of County Kildare. I have been working closely with my colleague, Senator O'Loughlin, who is in correspondence with the local authority to try to secure a premises. I believe we are close to securing one. It is helpful if we have the support of local authorities in providing premises at a reasonable rent so that the bulk of the money can be spent on providing the services by the multidisciplinary team that is in place."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Ward Earlier this month in Britain, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency announced that new safety measures were being implemented for all patients taking antidepressant medications. This follows the completion of a detailed review involving patients and their families of how the risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviours are associated with these medications. Campaigners such as Ms Stephanie McGill-Lynch from my area and Mr. Jim Connell from Meath lost their children by suicides that were related to side-effects of prescribed medications. They have been calling for similar measures to Britain's to be introduced in Ireland in the interest of patient safety. Will the Health Products Regulatory Authority, HPRA, adopt the changes implemented in Britain? If not, we will have a situation where patients in neighbouring counties, such as Fermanagh and Cavan, will be getting different information about the dangers of the medication they are taking. Can this disparity be justified in the interest of patient safety? What does the Government plan to do to address it?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. As he will be aware, we launched the new national suicide reduction and self-harm reduction strategy earlier in the year. Since 2000, we have seen a 33% reduction in suicides in Ireland. Every suicide is one too many. Currently, our number is 8.6 per 100,000 in the Republic of Ireland and we want to get to a complete reduction of that. The lowest number of suicides anywhere in Europe is 6 per 100,000 in the likes of Cyprus and Malta, which has been put down to the fact there are some benefits from being in sunlight. A worrying statistic is that the number of suicides in Northern Ireland is double that in the Republic of Ireland at 16.5 per 100,000. The deputy chief medical officer, Professor Philip Dodd, is in contact with the Northern Ireland Minister for Health, Robbie Butler MLA - no relation. I met him recently about the suicide challenges being dealt with in the North. I will certainly refer the Deputy's question to the Chief Medical Officer, CMO's office and the Irish College of Psychiatry because anything we do will have to be evidence-based."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tom Brabazon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tom-Brabazon.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Tom Brabazon The cost of childcare for families with young children has often been described as carrying the burden of a second mortgage. While the budget provided some welcome relief for some families, parents are still feeling the pinch of childcare costs. Notably, parents are concerned that the childcare fee cap will not assist cr\u00e8ches that opted out of the core funding scheme, that it is limited to children in full-time care and that it still does not go far enough. Parents who are not in the core funding scheme or are not using full-time care need more help to bring down childcare costs. Will the Minister advise on whether further action can be taken by the Government in this regard?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill We are trying to place a continuing focus on childcare because I, like many others in the House representing their constituents, know well the cost of childcare. The core funding scheme is the mechanism in place at the moment. It is an effort to try to bring as many cr\u00e8ches and childcare facilities into a State-based scheme as possible. However, I recognise that there are people outside it. There was an effort to try to increase childminding in the home by extending the tax-free threshold and the number of children who can be cared for in that environment. I will discuss it with the Minister, but the core funding scheme is the model that works. That said, I recognise that many childcare providers, including some in my constituency, choose not to be in it for one reason or another. The State is trying to provide a maximum benefit to the maximum number of people and has done that through the core funding model."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Maxwell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"David-Maxwell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy David Maxwell I will ask about hospital car parking charges. In the Cavan Monaghan hospital group, the charge to use the car park is \u20ac3 per stay, but people from my constituency who travel to Dublin can pay up to \u20ac17 to park at a hospital. Fuel, parking and food costs could add up to more than \u20ac100 per trip for someone having treatment in a Dublin hospital. I welcome the review of capping car parking charges at \u20ac10 per day, but that \u20ac10 must be per day. If family members leave the car park while another family member is still getting treatment, they must be allowed to return and collect or visit that person within 24 hours, for the same money. I welcome that Cavan and Monaghan hospitals operate free or permitted parking that is available to specific groups, such as parents of sick children who need long-term care, the next-of-kin of critically ill patients and long-term care patients. This should be mandatory for all hospital car parks. Close family who have to travel to any hospital to visit a sick family member who may be at the end of life having to worry about a parking fee is wrong. Will the Minister's Department give a strong response on this in the upcoming review?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I thank the Deputy. He will be aware that 36 hospitals have a charge for parking, with a maximum daily rate, and another nine do not have a charge. Parking is entirely free at Bantry, Mallow, Ennis and even in St. Luke's Hospital in Rathgar. There are four hospitals where the fixed daily rate is above \u20ac10: St. Vincent's University Hospital; St James's Hospital; the Mater Misericordiae University Hospital; and St. John's Hospital. In many cases, they are in an arrangement with a private contractor. However, we are trying to limit car parking charges for patients. We are engaged in a review of it at the moment. There is one factor I am concerned about, which is that I do not want to make car parking so accessible that people who are not using the hospital choose to use its car parking. There is a balance around that I am concerned about, particularly in inner city Dublin or inner city Cork. We are trying to provide maximum accessibility - the Deputy's suggestion is good - while making sure that car parking in hospitals is used for the benefit of patients and not third parties."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice According to the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, September was the worst September on record for hospital overcrowding. Facts matter in these debates. There is a permanent state of crisis in the accident and emergency departments. Some 70,000 people left an emergency department without being seen or completing their treatment between January and July of this year. This is utterly unacceptable. More than 30,000 people waited longer than 24 hours to be admitted or discharged. This should be setting off alarm bells in the Department of Health. There are three solutions that need to be advanced. We need to build more beds. We have the fifth lowest number of hospital beds per capita in Europe, according to Eurostat. We need 300 additional beds per year according to the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI. Last year, the Government was 100 short. This year will be even worse. However, the answer cannot be found in hospitals. We must invest in community care. There is a shortage of GPs, step-down facilities and home care. Some 100,000 bed days were lost due to delayed discharges last year. There are solutions to be found in investing in community services and, ultimately, we must reorient our health service away from acute services into the community and deliver Sl\u00e1intecare in full, focusing on prevention and early intervention. Will the Minister provide the beds? Will she provide the staff? Will she commit in full to Sl\u00e1intecare?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I am conscious that the region the Deputy represents has been the beneficiary of exactly that type of care outside Cork University Hospital, CUH, in Mallow in community nursing units, yet there is a continual articulation about putting money into CUH and vacancies there when, as the Deputy correctly said, the emphasis must be on the community. In this year's budget, we have increased yet again the budget for older persons, for meals on wheels and for all of the types of day-to-day hospital-avoidance pieces that are so important. We will continue to do that. People waiting in hospital is not a uniform experience; it is very much a hospital-by-hospital experience. Patients in the Beaumont region, the Connolly region or the Drogheda region, all hospitals that have improved, will have a different experience from those in Cork based on how their hospital is managed, one that is not linked to resources that have gone into that hospital. The hospital in Tipperary has had a difficult few weeks but it has consistently improved over 2025 with an 81%-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice This is one of the largest hospitals in the country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill Indeed. It has the highest recruitment and yet has never improved its position, depending on how it has been managed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice It needs investment-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill Is it not extraordinary? St. James's is a bigger hospital and it has ten people on trolleys today. It is in an area of just as big a difficulty. There is an onus on management to make sure that it is using the resources it has."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Marie Sherlock As the Minister knows, one in ten women in this country suffers from the condition of lipoedema. It is a chronic progressive condition. As the national lipoedema working group on diagnostics and management does not actually specify surgery as part of that management, women end up having to go abroad. There are huge delays in processing the cross-border directive scheme applications at the moment. The women who are approaching us point to a 12-month wait. For most people, it is a nine-month wait. The HSE should be getting back to people within 30 days. Is there something specifically happening with regards to the treatment of lipoedema patients travelling abroad? Some women coming to me have spent over \u20ac10,000. They cannot afford to wait 12 months or longer to be reimbursed by the HSE."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill The Deputy is right on both counts. The cross-border directive scheme reimbursement has slowed down. I have put in place a deadline of Christmas to get back to where we had been. The Deputy is quite right to highlight that it had slowed down. Lipoedema is an issue raised by her and also by Deputy Maeve O'Connell. I have spoken to Dr. Colm Henry about the programme of care for that. This is an area of women's health that has not been understood. It is a very serious condition. It impacts about 11% of women and can lead in different ways to lymphedema, which is even more impactful on women. I am very aware of what the Deputy is saying and it is something I need to follow up more on."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-\u00d3-Feargha\u00edl.S.2000-06-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl In recent years, the State has proven itself to be particularly adept in offering State apologies - long sought and richly deserved apologies. I am thinking of yesterday's quite appropriate apology to the family of Brian Stack. I am thinking also of the apologies offered to Shane O'Farrell's family, to the victims of Kennelly in Waterford and to the families of the Stardust victims. All of them had to wait a very long time to receive their apologies. There is one glaring omission from that list and it is the survivors of thalidomide, the 40 or so people still living who were abjectly failed by the State over 60 years ago. I know the T\u00e1naiste met with survivors in July. When can we expect those 40 survivors and maybe even more significantly the tiny number of remaining mothers who are at a very advanced age to receive from this State the apology to which they are most definitely entitled and the supports they need to live out the rest of their lives in dignity?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill I thank Deputy \u00d3 Feargha\u00edl raising this. I am very conscious of the ongoing quest that the survivors of thalidomide have had, including Finola Cassidy from my constituency. I know that they have met the Taoiseach and T\u00e1naiste at least once, if not several times. There is a strong desire by the Government to address their very real concerns. I hope and expect that that may be resolved and that any remaining barriers on any side would be set aside for that to be completed for the benefit of the survivors of thalidomide."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Gary Gannon I ask the Minister about the drug-related intimidation and violence engagement, DRIVE, programme, which is funded by her Department. We all recognise that drug-related intimidation is endemic the length and breadth of Ireland at the moment. We have seen the horrors of that in its full force last week. Last year, the DRIVE programme received annual funding of \u20ac280,000 from the Department of Health. That was increased in September with an extra \u20ac65,000. What funding has been allocated to the DRIVE programme in this year's budget?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill The Deputy is right; that is within my Department. We are in the process of developing the letter of determination for the national service plan for 2027. I will have to come back to him with a specific amount because that is not finalised. However, we have put significant additional funding into the implementation of the drug strategy this year, of which, of course, that is an important part. There is an additional \u20ac7 million on top of what was there before, so it is now \u20ac11 million for the implementation of the drug strategy. A key part of that is working in the community, with communities, with drug and alcohol task forces and the DRIVE programme, which is important and excellent. I hope people will have confidence in it. That comes in part by continuing to fund it and make it available. I will come back to the Deputy with more specifics."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins Over the last number of years, landowners have been terrorised by Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, and its compulsory purchase order, CPO, powers to railroad walkways, cycleways and greenways through their farms, splitting working land and pulling down farm sheds, all in the name of walkways and cycleways costing tens of millions of euro without a worry in the world. If a landowner says \"No\", TII waves the CPO. This scandalous carry-on has to stop. It has to be taken out of the hands of TII and the CPO needs to be dropped completely. I will give the example of one landowner in Ballinascarty. After being told that a proposed walkway would go through his yard and after he explained that there were a milking parlour, calf sheds and cattle buildings, he was told not to worry about those and that TII would shove those sideways. It was as if his whole livelihood was Lego. Landowners know that they are in real trouble with this mindset. Landowners on the Cork-Kinsale road, the quiet road in Belgooly, the Bandon-Ballinascarty road, the Skibbereen-Baltimore road and others throughout Ireland do not want their lands compulsorily purchased for greenways. The delivery of walkways needs to go back to be being delivered by communities, not dictated by TII."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill The reaction and support for greenways are very significant. TII is doing a study to ascertain everybody's view on how locals feel when a greenway was put in. Results may be only preliminary but they are very positive, with 95% believing that greenways benefited their communities while 92% would recommend greenway development to other communities. It is very much about how the whole community benefits from an investment of that kind, which is a key part of using our community but also the health and well-being aspect of greenways. There is broad positivity towards greenways and I hope they will continue appropriately."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins It is scandalous."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Duncan Smith I am not in the habit of bringing up traffic on the floor of the D\u00e1il, but such is the scale of the traffic chaos in my home town of Swords that I am having to do it for the second time in three months. I am glad the Minister for Health is here. Due to long-term road closures to facilitate works and huge traffic reorientation projects on the R132 dual carriageway, people's lives are being impacted. They are getting stuck in traffic for 45 minutes when it should have taken five. Right in the middle of this is a Dublin Fire Brigade station and a HSE ambulance station. I have received reports from workers at both those stations that their ability to respond quickly and effectively to emergency calls has been impacted by these road designs. I cannot go into the detail because I do not have the time, but the Minister for Health needs to investigate this because it is impacting the ability of ambulances to get to sick people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill Of course, I will follow up with the National Ambulance Service to see if it has had any specific issues. The Deputy will forgive me; I am not familiar with the road, which is on the other side of the city from me. I will, of course, flag this with the Minister for Transport, who is trying to put significant long-term investment into finding alternative transport solutions for that area."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_37","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Spiking Offences Bill 2026: First Stage","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Ward I move: That leave be granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to make provisions for the offence of spiking to be considered a standalone offence; to establish toxicology pathways for victims of this offence; and to provide for related matters. Along with my colleague M\u00e1ire Devine, I am introducing the Spiking Offences Bill 2026. I thank the advocate groups, Safe Gigs Ireland and Spiking Ireland, for their assistance and guidance with this legislation. I especially thank Hazel Behan, who is an advocate and survivor of sexual violence, and Sinn F\u00e9in councillor in Wexford Aoife Rose O'Brien, who is a long-time campaigner and a survivor of spiking and rape, for their very personal contributions to this legislation. Since 2022, 278 spiking incidents have been reported to the Garda. None of these reports has resulted in a prosecution under the current legislation, the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act, where spiking is considered poison. Even though 278 people presented to the Garda to report incidents of spiking, we have had zero prosecutions. That shows there is a problem. Sexual violence centres estimate that this figure is only the tip of the iceberg as many instances of spiking go unreported. We often speak about spiking in the context of what might happen next, whether someone intended to sexually assault, rob or otherwise harm the person they spiked. We need to recognise that the act of spiking itself is already a violation. Support groups and survivors report that countless women, as well as members of the LGBTQ+ community, have shared their experience of spiking. They are different people in different circumstances, but there is a common thread. Someone made a decision about their body without their knowledge or consent. A person's bodily autonomy has been taken from them. Their ability to make decisions about their own safety has been interfered with. Their consent has been disregarded entirely. This is harm, regardless of what follows. What is sometimes lost in the conversation about spiking and crimes like this is the lasting impact on the person who experiences them. The impact does not necessarily end when the substance leaves the system. It can follow them into their next night out or next social gathering. It is important that we do not have to wait for something worse to happen before we acknowledge that the person has been harmed. Spiking should not have to lead to sexual assault or robbery to be a crime. The absence of a further offence does not mean the absence of a victim. That is why this Bill makes spiking a stand-alone offence. The second part of this Bill, which probably falls under the Minister's remit, is to have a statutory toxicology pathway for victims of spiking. Councillor Aoife Rose O'Brien of Sinn F\u00e9in has given me full permission to tell part of her experience. She was spiked with a very high dosage of a sedative and raped. She woke up in a different house, very frightened, and still under the influence of the drugs she was spiked with. She was petrified and unable to understand what had happened. When she got home, she called CareDoc, which refused to do a blood test. They referred her to Wexford hospital's accident and emergency department, which also refused to do a blood test. She was forced to call An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and report the incident of rape. She was then transferred to Waterford hospital, where a blood test was done. It took over 24 hours after she was initially spiked to get the blood test. Here lies the problem. The substance could have left her system. If she had not reported the rape, she would not have received a blood test. What happens to a person who was spiked, had their bodily autonomy taken away from them and was not the victim of sexual assault? Where is the pathway for that person to get tested? That is why we enshrine a statutory toxicology pathway into this Bill, so everyone who was spiked gets a timely toxicology test. During discussion with stakeholders, I have been made aware of a new phenomenon with spiking - spiking a person for the craic. It is absolutely horrendous. People are singling out a vulnerable person, who is often alone, and spiking them for a group's amusement. This is absolutely horrific. I am aware of this happening to a 92-year-old man. This is another reason this Bill is so important. The impact on this 92-year-old man was very frightening. He was not sexually assaulted or robbed, but he is a victim nonetheless. This Bill aims to protect him and others from spiking and bring perpetrators to account."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Is the Bill opposed?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler) It is not opposed."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Since this is a Private Members' Bill, Second Stage must, under Standing Orders, be taken in Private Members' time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Ward I move: \"That the Bill be taken in Private Members' time.\""},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 1.23 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 2.04 p.m."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Sitting suspended at 1.23 p.m. and resumed at 2.04 p.m."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Spiking Offences Bill 2026: First Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-22\/debate\/dbsect_38","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"Children's Health Ireland: Statements","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":9},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_38","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill) I welcome the opportunity to address the House on the independent Report on Children's Health Ireland Inquiry into Spina Bifida and Complex Scoliosis Scoping Exercise by Mr. Remy Farrell, SC. More importantly, I acknowledge the group of people who are here today in the Gallery, who have advocated for some time about complex scoliosis and spina bifida. In that context, I want to first put this conversation in the context of the lived experiences of patients and families who have been in Children's Health Ireland, CHI, in many different contexts and who have not had the care they deserved. For many children living with spina bifida, scoliosis or hip dysplasia more recently, and for the parents and families who care for them, everyday life involves significant challenges, uncertainty and worry. Mr. Farrell attempts to captures the real pain and frustration parents have felt for a very long time. I want to acknowledge that here today. I also want to acknowledge that for so many people I am very aware that any process that this House or the Government progresses will not alleviate pain and will not alleviate the past. What the Government and the Oireachtas are attempting to do is to bring together a structure that enables the investigation of the systems that enabled any of those extremely difficult outcomes that many parents, families and individuals have had to face. As a consequence, I appointed Mr. Remy Farrell as the independent facilitator for a scoping exercise in order to examine how we might progress to a statutory inquiry. I recall from meetings with advocates on complex scoliosis that they had two requests, the first of which was to bring CHI into the HSE. Legislation is being progressed with a view to that being completed by the end of 2027. The second request was to have an inquiry into the events that had led to extreme difficulties for their children. Mr. Farrell was appointed to scope the content of potential terms of reference for a statutory inquiry, in consultation with stakeholders. The process was designed to ensure that when an inquiry is established, which has been our intention, it has structures and parameters that reflect the needs of children and families, and that they are grounded in evidence, are timely and efficient and avoid duplication with existing statutory or clinical processes. Following his appointment in March, the facilitator initially wrote to stakeholders to introduce himself and to invite them to meet with him. The facilitator had various engagements with patient advocate groups, families and a number of clinicians, CHI and HSE management and the Department of Health. His engagement included both written correspondence and meetings. At the beginning of June, Mr. Farrell wrote to stakeholders inviting them to make submissions or observations in relation to the various issues and set out his initial thoughts on any proposed inquiry. He again wrote to stakeholders, including all advocacy groups, on 7 July regarding an extension of time, which he requested to enable him to have further engagement. I granted this extension to him in order to give him the opportunity to continue engaging and re-engaging with them. That is in part because there were some groups that chose not to engage at that stage, and because there were other groups and individuals who came to him at that stage. For both of those reasons, he asked for additional time. I acknowledge the bravery of those who chose to talk about their difficult lived experiences. I also respect and acknowledge that not everybody did. Everybody's participation in different ways added to his understanding of the essential human perspective of the varied and very different issues. I hope he has acknowledged that in his report in a way that reflects people's participation in it. Mr. Farrell submitted his final report to me on 9 September. I am grateful to him for the professional way in which he has conducted the scoping exercise. His work brought structure and clarity to a broad set of issues and concerns which required considerable sensitivity. As Members of the House will be aware, Mr. Farrell has recommended a commission of investigation covering four defined modules on waiting lists, spinal surgery, hip dysplasia and the important group of children who were not transferred to Temple Street post 2008. Mr. Farrell has recommended a commission of investigation over the other statutory model, a tribunal of inquiry, based on his view that a commission can deliver the same core statutory powers as a tribunal while being better suited to the specific subject matter of the inquiry, namely the medical treatment of children. A commission can compel witnesses to attend in the same way and compel the production of documents and a final report will be published. Crucially, a commission also enables a measure of public hearing. It is important that there is an opportunity for public hearing - the difference being that a commission also enables a private element as well, whereas the default in a tribunal model is necessarily public. In relation to the module on waiting lists, Mr. Farrell recommends two submodules. The first is a personal-family statement submodule and the second is a submodule in relation to the response of CHI management to waiting list issues. In the distinct personal-family statement submodule recommended by Mr. Farrell, parents and children would be asked and invited to give testimony in relation to their experiences regarding the impact delays and management of waiting lists had on them. It should not be confined to any specific hospital but to CHI generally. Insofar as the module relating to waiting lists is concerned, Mr. Farrell makes clear that he includes the National Orthopaedic Hospital at Cappagh. His recommendation is that this module be conducted on a non-adversarial basis. This a module that has the opportunity to be in private, public or by written documentation, essentially at the discretion of the individuals involved, enabling an important measure of choice. Regarding the second module, on spinal surgery, his recommendation is that a commission should inquire into the response by CHI to delays and management of waiting lists for spinal surgery or assessment across CHI. It should also inquire into how funds allocated on foot of the scoliosis and spina bifida action plan 2022-23 were spent. It should also inquire into the circumstances surrounding five urology clinics and whether they complied with applicable NTPF rules. While Mr. Farrell does not recommend that the issues covered by the ongoing Nayagam review and by the completed HIQA report should be inquired into, a discrete issue regarding the latter does arise. Mr. Farrell recommends that a commission should inquire into whether the management of CHI was aware of the use or intended use of non-CE marked springs in surgeries undertaken by consultant A between 2020 and 2022. In relation to the module on hip dysplasia, Mr. Farrell recommends that a commission should inquire into the surgical threshold for developmental dysplasia of the hip, DDH, that was in operation at Temple Street and Cappagh. This module should consider whether the threshold was appropriate and justified, the reasons for any deviations from the threshold and the response and awareness of management to this. He recommends that this module should await the outcomes of the external expert panel review before it commences its work. For DDH, the HSE has established a separate process in relation to retrospective reviews to determine the indications for surgery. This is known as the external expert panel review, as I said. The independent expert panel will review patient files to determine, insofar as it can, the appropriateness of the original decision to operate in individual cases based on the appropriate radiological indices and clinical history informing that decision. Lastly, he recommends that a commission should inquire into the care received by the group of patients who were not transferred from Crumlin to Temple Street following a HSE decision in 2008. He recommends that a commission should consider the experiences of patients and their families within this group during that period and, crucially, the CHI management of same. It is important to be clear on what a statutory inquiry can and cannot do, and how it fits into the overall legal architecture of places within which we can get redress and remedy. As Members are aware and as Mr. Farrell says in his report, what a statutory inquiry can achieve is primarily the identification of what has occurred in the past. Insofar as recommendations flow from such conclusions, they tend to be at best broad recommendations. A statutory inquiry is not the appropriate forum in which to decide how future children's health should be delivered, managed or resourced. I suggest that is for this House to do. Mr. Farrell makes clear that those matters remain for the relevant executive and legislative bodies to decide. While it might help to improve the understanding of what went wrong in the past, a statutory inquiry cannot itself deliver the operational, clinical or policy changes needed. It is important to make sure that is understood. It is not possible within the legislation or the model of any type of statutory inquiry. A statutory inquiry is not a clinical process. Mr. Farrell suggests that we do not duplicate or replicate those pieces of clinical examination that are under way and which are appropriate for clinicians, but rather that those findings would inform the work of a commission which would be led by a person who is not a clinician but a senior judge or retired senior judge. Mr. Farrell does not recommend a diagnosis-based inquiry into every aspect of scoliosis care. Instead, he has defined modules by the different issues. A statutory inquiry\u2019s primary role is to establish and explain what happened in the past. It can investigate events, identify failings and make generally broad recommendations. Crucially, it can improve public understanding and provide a moment within which the broader public understands that something happened that should not have happened and attempt to acknowledge that in statutory form, independent of this House and the Government. However, it is not designed to solve complex service delivery problems or implement reforms. A statutory inquiry is not a vehicle within which we can identify or determine what happened in specific individual cases. There are important separate processes where individual cases can be appropriately examined such as a systems analysis review or, very sadly, in some cases, a coroner\u2019s inquest. Those are the existing legal proceedings for examining individual cases. It is not the function of a statutory inquiry as such. Further, in his report Mr. Farrell suggests it may also be necessary for the inquiry to consider a sampling approach in order to enable a commission to take a view as to what may or may not have occurred in a broad manner. The Commissions of Investigation Act 2004 is sufficiently flexible to permit different methodologies to be applied in the context of any such statutory inquiry including sampling. He gives that opportunity of flexibility for the statutory inquiry. I am aware that there are calls for a tribunal of inquiry as opposed to a commission of investigation. As I outlined earlier, Mr. Farrell recommends a commission of investigation over a tribunal based on the view that a commission can deliver the same core statutory powers as a tribunal. However, he is also of the view that as these issues deal with the personal and medical information of children who have specific legal protections and given the relatively finite number of children involved, there is a significant risk that children may be identifiable even where anonymised. A commission on the other hand by default is largely conducted in private with the opportunity to go public. In his view, that alleviates the concerns compared with a tribunal which by default is conducted in public and allows for the cross-examination of all witnesses. His concern is that as a consequence of that, a commission may encourage broader participation because there are those who do not wish to be questioned in public, those who may be more willing to share personal experiences and those who may be more willing to discuss concerns, mistakes or experiences more candidly and provide sensitive evidence. For this reason, he favours the commission model over a tribunal model as it enables all of that flexibility. There is a view among some parents that it should be held entirely in private and among other parents that it should be held entirely in public. Mr. Farrell outlines in his report that although the default position is that evidence received by a commission is received in private, it is by no means an inflexible rule. The Act allows for a witness to request from the commission that all or part of their evidence be heard in public. I am aware also that there is a response to Mr. Farrell\u2019s report that the commission is too narrow. Mr. Farrell emphasises the importance of having a focused and clearly defined inquiry. That comes from our experience of previous statutory inquires. He notes in particular that a commission operating within precise terms of reference is more likely to deliver findings within a defined or reasonable timeframe. The legislation requires that the terms of reference specify the events, activities, circumstances, systems, practices or procedures to be investigated. The legislation also requires that it should identify relevant time periods, locations, organisations or individuals. That legislation is based on our collective experience of how we managed statutory inquires in the past. In his work, Mr. Farrell ensured each issue was addressed on its own merits to determine whether further examination was warranted. That involved identifying issues, some of which had been adequately addressed, areas where unanswered questions remain and matters that benefit from further examination through a statutory inquiry. It is not in our collective interest that we do not get an outcome from this inquiry. By that I mean it is important that we set parameters. When we had a debate on this in the past, Members were clear they did not want this to go on in a way - I do not want to say an \"interminable\" way - that did not get an outcome and was not defined. We have had, as Members know, tribunals of inquiry that lasted up to 12 years in the recent past. That is not in anybody\u2019s interest. For the module on waiting lists, Mr. Farrell suggests a timeframe from 1 January 2019 to 31 December 2025. For the module on hip dysplasia, he recommends a timeframe from 1 January 2019 to 31 March 2025. As I have mentioned, Mr. Farrell notes that inquiries work best when they have a defined scope and time. He suggests 2019 as the start date given that Children\u2019s Health Ireland was, I believe, established in December 2018. This is a six-year period that deals with both the period before Covid-19 affected services, during Covid-19 and after Covid-19, allowing for an assessment of the pandemic\u2019s impact on waiting lists and focusing on events related to CHI as an organisation. Crucially, it also acknowledges that disruptions to services and surgeries not happening was not as a consequence of Covid-19. That is why it is so important to have a period in advance of that as well. Waiting lists did exist. Waiting list challenges very definitely existed before 2019, but Mr. Farrell recommends that period as an effort to put parameters on the commission. The Government has accepted the report\u2019s recommendations and we want to begin drafting terms of reference for a proposed commission of investigation. Officials in my Department will work in close consultation with the Office of the Attorney General in drafting the terms of reference. It is important to me that stakeholders are involved in this process and there will be an important call for input from advocacy groups on the terms of reference. As we have always said, the terms of reference are ultimately a matter for the Government to approve. Similarly, at the same time we have had a process of a commission of investigation into the acts of the paedophile Michael Shine. By way of corollary, my officials are in contact with Dignity4Patients, a group representing victims, in relation to their view on supports for participants ensuring that the commission will be trauma led and trauma informed. We want to replicate that process here. Learnings from that process will enable us to ensure we do everything we can to ensure the establishment of this commission is inclusive, timely and efficient. I know there are concerns that this will take a very long time to set up. Again, as a comparison, Members may be aware that following Lorcan Staines SC\u2019s scoping exercise report, the Government agreed to the initiation of the drafting of terms of reference for that proposed commission of investigation in July. Officials in my Department have been working in the period since and very significant progress has been made in that regard. It is important that every element of this process happen in an expeditious way in order to allow people to have the opportunity to contribute their experience to the commission. There are a number of different ongoing processes I would like to reference, which are important because they will inform the proposed investigation. Overall, the aforementioned external expert panel review is progressing reasonably well. The panel has completed the testing and validation process and it commenced its formal review of cases in August. A letter to all the stakeholders will issue shortly by way of update, and that work will be completed in 2027. It is really important that this work conclude to be able to inform any next steps and, crucially, a commission. Separately, we have the ongoing Nayagam review. The chief clinical officer of the HSE commissioned this UK expert to lead an external review of the paediatric orthopaedic surgical service at Temple Street. The review is in two parts. Phase 1 is a risk assessment of the practice of an individual consultant. Phase 2 is a review of the paediatric orthopaedic surgery service at CHI and other specified Dublin hospitals, to include a review of their governance, systems, processes and capacity. That is a much more clinical focus being done by a clinician. However, by way of update, phase 1 has been completed. Mr. Nayagam recommended a recall for clinical review of 62 of the 91 cases examined by him. All of those have been contacted, appointments are being progressed and a number of young people and adults have had their clinical follow-up. On foot of phase 1, the HSE decided to carry out a wider look-back at the individual consultant\u2019s practice. That will include a review of the patients on whom the individual consultant performed surgeries between 2016 and 2023 in the following domains: all spinal cases, surgical dislocations of the hip, and limb reconstruction cases. Intensive work is under way to establish the number of patients who will be involved in that look-back process. The purpose of that is to detect harm that may have occurred and to ensure a patient is on the correct pathway. That itself may point towards further inquiry. Phase 2 of Mr. Nayagam\u2019s review is under way and is expected to be completed mid-2027. That phase 2 review is important from a broader clinical and system patient safety perspective to assure on future service provision, especially in the context of the move to the new national children\u2019s hospital. As I outlined earlier, Mr. Farrell says in his report that a statutory inquiry cannot itself deliver the operational, clinical or policy changes needed. That responsibility lies with me and with us. The Government has recognised and continues to recognise and prioritise families accessing paediatric spinal services, and there has been a significant additional investment to help reduce waiting lists. We are seeing this year in particular and last year that it is beginning to make a difference. The investment and the associated initiatives are focused on increasing capacity across the care pathways and building a much more sustainable service that can respond to the needs of children and their families. Several initiatives are under way to improve services. We have a ring-fenced theatre and additional outpatient clinics, including on Saturdays, and the outpatient waiting time has gone from about nine months to less than four months. That is important. We have national and international outsourcing pathways to maximise capacity where people choose to use that. We have written and written again to families to offer that. Very few families have taken it up but the offer is an open one if people wish to travel abroad. Further improvements are under way, including the recruitment of additional orthopaedic surgeons, which enables spinal surgeons to devote more capacity to spinal surgery. Indeed, a surgeon was appointed last August, and others who have been appointed are now doing specialist fellowships and will return to the service. Meanwhile, there is locum cover for that. What we are observing this year in particular is an increase in the amount of really complex spinal work, often done by two surgeons instead of one. That has meant the numbers have not been as high but much more complex work is being done. That is the reason for it. We are having two spinal surgeons work together to ensure the complex work is being done rather than being allowed to drift, which is what has happened in the past. We also have a key worker or patient navigator in post to make sure every family has a named point of contact to support them throughout their child\u2019s care, something that did not happen appropriately in the past. There has been a dedicated paediatric spinal surgery management unit in CHI since 2024, to drive continuous improvement across the service and be responsible for managing the delivery of spinal surgery. It is led by a consultant orthopaedic surgeon, is supported by a wider multidisciplinary team and ensures patients are prioritised correctly for surgery. That does not count, however, unless the surgeons are there to do the work and unless the theatre is available, and I do see improvements this year. One hundred per cent of outpatients are now waiting less than 12 months for a first appointment, which is entirely appropriate. A central referral process has commenced to ensure that patients are seen in the right location, by the right consultant, as quickly as possible. Since international outsourcing started in 2024, 19 patients who were considered suitable for surgery have had it completed abroad. For those 19 patients, 25 procedures were completed. As I have said, we have written again, both in March and August 2026, to patients on the active waiting lists to offer them the opportunity to travel abroad, and that is an open offer. The recruitment for a spinal registry team is now complete. As I said, however, there are people on fellowships and it is about making sure they are here in the longer term, but we are seeing the impact of the additional surgeons. The CHI improvement steering group is co-ordinating oversight of the range of matters of focus in CHI and it is making a difference. The weighted average wait time for outpatients has fallen to 3.8 months. The weighted average wait time for inpatient procedures is also down in the last 12 months. At my direction, we will continue to have that focus to make sure children are getting the outpatient services, the care and the surgeries they need. I also want to mention the very necessary work to implement the integration of Children's Heath Ireland into the Health Service Executive, a key ask of advocates. A general scheme of the Bill was approved by Cabinet on 14 July of this year. It has now been published. Pre-legislative scrutiny took place on 7 October. I thank the committee for that. We will progress that legislation expeditiously and I expect integration of those services to be complete in 2027. I recognise the real pain, the difficulty and the enormous trauma to so many people's lives as a consequence of a failure to get the correct surgery or to have the appropriate wraparound care for their children. It is truly enormous and I recognise that on behalf of the Government. Our effort to set up a commission to acknowledge and investigate the systems that enabled and led to that is one that is truly genuine. We genuinely wish to deliver something that can be the most inclusive, for those who wish to be public or private, and to draft terms of reference in a way that enables the best flexibility and inclusivity according to Mr. Farrell's report."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy David Cullinane This inquiry is not being established because the system worked; it is being established because, over many years, children were failed. Children waited in pain. Children waited while their conditions worsened. Children waited so long that the treatment they ultimately needed became more difficult, more complex and, in some cases, inoperable. Children were removed from active waiting lists without their parents knowing. Children fell between services. Children with spina bifida became known as the \"Crumlin orphans\" because of the gaps in the specialist care they needed. Children had unauthorised springs implanted into their bodies. There have been serious concerns about hip dysplasia surgery and about the threshold at which children were operated on. There have been serious spinal surgery incidents. There have been failures of waiting list management, failures of governance, failures of clinical oversight, failures of accountability and failures of communication. Throughout all this, there has been a failure to listen to parents, and that is why we are here. History matters in this context. We cannot start talking about this scandal from 2019 because the failures did not begin in 2019. For many years before the establishment of Children's Health Ireland, parents were raising the alarm. Children were waiting extraordinary lengths of time for life-changing surgery. Parents watched their children worsen while they waited. Those parents campaigned. They protested. They spoke publicly. They came to this House. They forced this issue onto the political agenda. It was in that context that in 2017 Simon Harris, when he was Minister for Health, made the commitment that no child would wait longer than four months for scoliosis treatment by the end of that year. That promise was not made in a vacuum. It was made because there was already a crisis. It was made because children were already waiting for too long. It was made because parents were already telling the Government that their children were suffering. It was an acknowledgement by the State that allowing children with progressive spinal conditions to wait for years was unacceptable. That promise was broken. Children continued to wait beyond four months, and some children still do today. That is why I cannot accept 1 January 2019 as the starting point for this inquiry. It is an arbitrary cut-off when measured against the actual history of what happened to these children. If we start in 2019, how do we properly examine why the 2017 commitment had to be made? How do we examine everything that led up to it? How do we establish why it was not delivered? How do we examine what happened to children who were already waiting before CHI was even established? How do we establish whether the failures we subsequently saw within CHI were new failures or a continuation of problems and patterns that had existed for years? The Minister and the Government have said the chair of the inquiry can have discretion to look further back, but that is not good enough. This cannot be left to discretion. The terms of reference matter. The starting date written into these terms of reference matters. Those terms will define what the inquiry is required to examine. Parents should be able to read them and know that what happened to their children can and will be examined. They should not be told that maybe the 2017 commitment will be examined, maybe what happened before CHI was established will be examined and maybe what happened to their child will fall within the scope. There can be no ifs, buts or maybes. If these issues matter, and they do, they must be explicitly within the terms of reference. This is about rebuilding trust. You cannot ask parents who have spent years fighting the system to take another leap of faith and simply hope that the chair may look at something. The scoping process itself recognises that some of the issues involving the children described as the \"Crumlin orphans\" reach back well before 2019. At the meeting with the Minister for Health and the T\u00e1naiste on 12 November 2025, advocacy groups specifically raised the need to go back as far as 2005. This needs to be resolved now. The Minister needs to put it in the terms of reference and give the inquiry the clear authority and obligation to go back far enough to establish all the facts. Unless we establish the full timeline, we cannot identify the patterns, and if we cannot identify the patterns, we cannot properly understand how children were failed. Children's Health Ireland is central to all this. CHI was established under legislation brought forward when Simon Harris was Minister for Health. It was supposed to bring children's hospital services together under a new structure. It was supposed to improve governance, integration, accountability and outcomes for children. Now CHI is being brought to an end, mired in controversy, as a separate entity and its functions are being reintegrated into the HSE. What an extraordinary journey children and parents had to go on for that to happen. An organisation established to improve the governance and management of children's healthcare is now being dismantled. That cannot be separated from the serious failures of management, governance and oversight that have emerged, nor can we ignore the Government's handling of all this. For years concerns were raised. Parents raised them. Advocates raised them. Clinicians raised them. We in Sinn F\u00e9in and others in opposition raised them. Reports were written. Warnings were given. Too often the Government put its head in the sand. We have had report after report, review after review, investigation after investigation. We have had the Ombudsman for Children raise serious concerns about scoliosis waiting lists. We have had the Dixon report and the issues involving children with spina bifida who became known as the \"Crumlin orphans\". We have had the Nayagam review into paediatric orthopaedic surgery, which is still not complete. We have had the HIQA investigation into implantable medical devices and the unauthorised springs at Temple Street. We have had concerns and reviews relating to developmental dysplasia of the hip. We have had audits and reviews of waiting list management, access to care and governance. We have had published reports and unpublished reports. Now we have the Farrell scoping process. It is a list as long as any of our arms. What is missing in all that is the Government listening to parents and real accountability. At some point all the pieces of this jigsaw have to be put together. That brings me to another fundamental concern. You cannot properly understand these failures simply by looking at structures, policies and waiting list systems; you have to examine what actually happened to individual children. The failure of a healthcare system is experienced by a person. A waiting list does not feel pain; a child does. If a child needed surgery and was left waiting while their spinal curvature worsened, examine that child's experience. If a child was removed from a waiting list without their parents knowing, examine what happened. If a child was left without the specialist care they needed, examine why. If questions subsequently arose about a procedure carried out on a child, examine it. If serious concerns were identified about a child's care and their parents were not told, establish why and how that happened. Individual cases are not a distraction from systemic failures; they are how we expose systemic failures. We need to ask what care a child needed, how long they waited, what decisions were made, who made them, what their parents were told and what happened when concerns were raised. If we do that across enough children, the patterns will be very clear. That is how you establish the truth. Parents have been trying to tell us this for years. They were the whistleblowers. They were screaming from the rooftops. They were saying the waiting lists did not tell the full story. They were asking why their children could not get appointments. They were challenging decisions. They were looking for second opinions. They were demanding answers. Their very strong view is that they were not listened to. In truth, they still feel they are not being listened to. The Government has to confront that reality. If those parents had been listened to properly and earlier, many of these crises and scandals could have been prevented. That is why it is so important that they are listened to now. That brings me to the meeting of 12 November 2025. Families and advocacy organisations came to that meeting in good faith. The T\u00e1naiste was there and the Minister was there. The minutes record that the latter intended to bring forward a statutory public inquiry that would, in principle, be a tribunal of inquiry. They record agreement that a mediator would work on the terms of reference and, when the groups asked that the mediator be agreed by both sides, the minutes state, \"This was agreed.\" They record discussion about an independent clinical expert not connected to CHI and potentially from outside the Irish healthcare system. The families and advocacy groups say that the facilitator was not agreed with them and that the independent clinical expert discussed at that meeting was not appointed. They say the further meaningful engagement they expected never happened. What is missing here is a requirement for transparent, public giving of evidence. Some parents may be able to give evidence publicly as part of a specific module. The concern is that CHI senior decision-makers and those whose actions are under scrutiny will not be required to account for themselves in the same public way. That is a real difficulty. If this inquiry is to rebuild trust, there can be no hiding places for anybody. It would be wrong if the evidence from those responsible for decisions, failures and oversight were examined only behind closed doors. Public accountability has to matter too. Before the terms of reference are finalised, the Minister needs to sit down again with parents and advocacy organisations to listen to them and to address their concerns. Trust is on the floor, and the only way the Minister can begin to rebuild it is by establishing an inquiry that is genuinely independent, genuinely comprehensive and genuinely fit for purpose and that for the first time puts families and children first."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice I welcome the families who are in the Gallery today. None of you should have to be here. None of you should have had to campaign and advocate on these issues for so many years. I know how much heart, soul and effort you have put in to try to get the truth here. It should not have happened. You have campaigned for this crucially important inquiry and the Government now has to get it right. That is the key message. The scale of the failings in CHI is extraordinary. Children were left in excruciating pain as they waited for surgery and some have, sadly, passed away. We need to get this right for all of them. I share many of the concerns set out by Deputy Cullinane. I know other Opposition Members share similar concerns. The first of these concerns in the timeline. This cannot start in 2019. We know that it goes much further back. The work currently under way in relation to the unnecessary hip surgeries is looking back to 2010. That work is already under way. That was well before CHI was established. If we are covering that area in an expert review and all that goes with it, we should be doing the same with the inquiry. The 2014 Temple Street report found serious failures in spina bifida care. In 2017, we had that infamous promise when Deputy Simon Harris said on national radio that we were going to get this right and that no one would wait more than four months. In that interview, he also said there was a direct correlation between the recession and waiting times. The then Minister for Health told us on national radio that there was a clear link between waiting times and the recession. The Government is now proposing that this whole period not be looked at. That is a mistake. We cannot write that period out of the record of the inquiry. The Minister should go much further back. I know others share that concern. One of the big things that was discussed was the difference between a public inquiry and an inquiry behind closed doors. I will read some extracts from Mr. Farrell's report because he puts it quite well. He says: As matters presently stand, the law provides for two similar but distinct types of statutory inquiry, namely a Tribunal of Inquiry and a Commission of Investigation \u2013 as I indicate above for simplicity I refer to these as a Tribunal and Commission respectively. For the sake of completeness I should also observe that it would be open to the Oireachtas to create a bespoke model for the purpose of a statutory inquiry into the matters under consideration here. He goes on to say, \"A further key difference between Tribunals and Commissions is that there is a default assumption that a Commission will conduct its investigation in private.\" Under point 295, he says \"As one might expect, clinicians are generally in favour of a commission model, whereas some of the patient groups advocate strongly for a tribunal.\" This sets out the clear difference and the clear demand I have heard from families and advocates. Many of them want as much of this as possible to be done in public. They want it out there. They want people to be able to hear and see the evidence. Sunlight is a good disinfectant. We know there are concerns about confidentiality but there are ways to address those. There are ways to do parts in private. However, the default should be for this to be in public. There are ways in which that can be achieved. I will also talk about the need for mediation here because there clearly is an impasse. On 12 November 2025, families met with the T\u00e1naiste and with the Minister for Health. I have seen the minutes of that meeting, as recorded by the Department. Those minutes record the intention to establish a statutory public inquiry, in principle, a tribunal of inquiry. Crucially, the minutes explicitly record agreement that a mediator would be agreed by both sides. Raymond Bradley SC requested that a mediator be mutually agreed and the minutes state that this proposal was agreed to. The T\u00e1naiste welcomed this development but that commitment was never honoured. The process proceeded without that agreed joint approach. The advocacy groups have written to both the Taoiseach and the T\u00e1naiste. They want to propose a constructive way forward. The appointment of a mutually agreed mediator would help to resolve the impasse between the Government and affected families and to restore confidence in the process. I urge the Minister to heed that call and to appoint that mediator. It is not too late. As I said when I met the Minister privately, I also think this inquiry needs to be independent of the Department of Health. It would be better situated in the Department of the Taoiseach in order to create that separation. That is very important. It is important that we look at the scope here. We must not just look at how waiting lists were managed. We need to look at outcomes for children and the lifelong consequences for them, including loss of kidney function and fertility. We need to look at what happened to the children who do not neatly fit into the four modules proposed, particularly those children who have sadly passed away. The families I have spoken to feel like an afterthought. They feel they have been treated poorly, strung along and fed excuses while the system closed ranks before them. Things were meant to change but they feel let down again. It is not too late to change this approach."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The time remaining on the clock is all Deputy Rice's if he wishes to continue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice I apologise. I know Deputy Cummins is also coming in on this. It is crucially important that we get this right. As I have said, the timeline is crucially important. We must look further back. We must get the scope of the inquiry right and hold as much of it as possible in public. A large number of families really want it to have that independence. The Minister should appoint that mediator and engage with the groups and families that are directly affected. There is an impasse here. There is a really strong difference of opinion between many of the families who are directly affected and the Government. The families and children affected deserve the best inquiry possible. As I have said constantly, the Minister has just this one golden chance to get it right. If she does, she will have the full support of the Social Democrats and other colleagues in the Opposition. I urge the Minister to listen to these calls, to our feedback and to what is being said. Let us engage constructively on this. Let us ensure we have an inquiry that is fit for purpose."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jen Cummins When I come to talk about this issue, I always remember that, at the end of the day, these are children who really want to play, to be with their family and friends, and to do the things that every child wants to do. Before I start, I thank my colleague, Deputy Rice, who has done so much on this issue. As he said, we want to work with the Minister to make sure that this is the best inquiry it can be for those children and their families. One of the things that has struck me when this issue has been talked about is that families have to talk about their personal details. This is not the only medical issue in respect of which this happens but it is incredibly difficult for families who have a child who needs a surgery to make things right but who is not getting it. As a parent, I cannot imagine how frustrating and heartbreaking that must be. It affects the whole family, including any siblings. We have to get this right. If we do not, it will end up in a State apology. Before I came in, I was looking at some numbers. In September 2026, there were 86 patients on the active spinal surgery waiting list. There were 357 spinal surgeries performed from January to September. The figure for new active and planned procedures from January to September 2026 was 272. There were 31 planned procedures for 25 patients. These are humans at the end of the day. We have to get this right. There are waiting lists for everything. There are waiting lists not just for medical procedures but for the other things that come after the surgery. Many parents contact me about children who have additional needs. There are waiting lists for children's disability network teams, primary care, physiotherapy, occupational therapy and the dentist. It is every single thing. I was very impressed with how the Minister spoke earlier about endometriosis and her determination to get that right. I hope she is as determined to get this right because there are many challenges in our healthcare system at the moment. I plead with the Minister to do the best thing for those families and to listen to them. As Deputy Rice said, there is an impasse. The only way to get through impasses is to speak and to figure out how to do things together. We must remember that, at the core of all of this, is a child who just wants to be a child, to play and to live their best life. I implore the Minister to do the best she can."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Malcolm Byrne This debate is particularly important because it is about the health and safety of the children of our nation, particularly our most vulnerable children. The test for the State has to be how we treat our children. I find the Minister to be incredibly empathetic. She puts the interests of the patient first in all of her approach to dealing with this issue. Based on her remarks, she is putting the children, the patients, and their families first. We have to acknowledge, however, that the public's confidence in children's healthcare has been strongly challenged in recent years. We will talk about the Remy Farrell report and the commission of investigation that is going to happen, but given what has happened, our overall challenge in here at the end of that process, apart from justice being provided for those who have been impacted, is rebuilding trust in children's healthcare in the State and ensuring it is done in a transparent way. I welcome the fact the Government has accepted Remy Farrell's recommendation around a commission of investigation being established into spinal and orthopaedic care with Children's Health Ireland, and it is critical, as the Minister has outlined, that families, including the children where appropriate, clinicians, patient advocates, CHI, the HSE, the Department and everybody who is involved in any way in this process is engaged within this. It needs to be done in as transparent a way as possible. It is critical that, at the end of this and apart from getting some of the answers, we have to be certain that we are able to build trust. The Minister spoke about how it would look at waiting lists between 2019 and 2025. Consideration may need to be given to some of those children impacted before 2019, if it is relevant to some of the discussion, and there should be an openness in that regard. The terms of reference are there and are clear, but if they need to be broadened as time moves on, I ask the Minister to consider that. As others have said, this is about more than individual incidents. This is going to be looking at issues around governance, culture, systems and accountability, which unfortunately are some of the challenges that we regularly see within our healthcare system. Regarding the questions that families have been asking, for us as legislators and for society generally, we want to know by the end of it whether the concerns were listened to. Were the warning signs identified sufficiently early? Did the information pass along to the relevant decision makers? Was action taken quickly enough when the problems emerged? These questions need to be answered clearly when it comes out, not only for the patients and their families, but also for society more broadly. It is not just enough to simply established what has happened. We need to look at who is responsible now for addressing some of those challenges to make sure that they will not happen again and similar families are not put into a similar position. I am particularly concerned about how some patients' records were handled, and I hope this will be examined in detail. The Data Protection Commission will be involved in this, but we are talking about children's medical information. It should be treated safely and securely at all times. I hope that some of the data protection issues will be addressed in great detail. Our other challenge when we talk about children's health in future is to learn lessons from this. We are moving towards finally seeing the opening of the national children's hospital, NCH. We have to acknowledge the enormous commitment of front-line healthcare staff and what all of our doctors, nurses and others are doing, but good people need good systems. As part of our rebuilding of trust, I do not want see that, once we have restored an element of trust as a result of this investigation, the same systems and so on are replicated when the NCH gets up and running. We need to make sure that when the NCH opens, it starts off by saying that it has learned lessons from the past and the kinds of risk that were identified have been solved. In her response, I want the Minister to talk about how the NCH is going to operate. A lot of the discussion within this Chamber has rightly been about the costs and overruns, and I know that the Minister is seeking to address them. Like her, I support the fact that we should have a world-class hospital, but how will we know that we have learned from experience and that the systems in place when the hospital finally opens do not replicate the problems that we have seen in CHI previously? If we simply replicate them, we are going to continue them. Part of the problem is that, too often, public procurement is judged by the successful award of a contract. A Minister gets to announce that we have finally awarded the contract for the building of something. In terms of our public procurement processes, and particularly in healthcare, we need to look at what we have learned from previous experiences. It cannot just be awarded to the economically advantageous tender. In terms of us rebuilding trust in the public healthcare system, I hope that the Minister will be able to outline some of the details of this. There are obviously the issues around the commission of investigation, and I know that the Minister is willing to listen to the concerns that are here, but we need to have systems in place that ensure that these sorts of thing do not happen again. They have happened too often, and when it comes to children in particular, they cause great distress and undermine public confidence in our child healthcare system. We need transparency in order to build that trust. We need clear answers to emerge out of this. We need a process of engagement involving the Department, HSE and those impacted. We also need to ensure that, at the end of this process and when we finally get to the opening of the national children's hospital, the systems are in place and what we saw happening before will never happen again."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan I want to address what I believe is one of the most serious omissions in the proposed inquiry process. Module 2 explains whether CHI management knew about the use of non-CE marked springs in spinal surgeries at Temple Street. That is an important question, but where is the examination of what happened to the children? Where is the examination of infections, complications, revision surgeries, unplanned returns to theatre and the long-term consequences for children and young adults? Where is the examination of whether poor outcomes were identified, investigated and acted upon? Instead, the proposed approach considerably relies on the Nayagam review, which concerns one surgeon's practice as CHI Temple Street and Cappagh. Phase 1 has been completed, but parents have not been given access to the full report, and phase 2 remains ongoing. What about CHI at Crumlin, the designated specialist centre for pediatric scoliosis care? Why is there no comprehensive examination of the surgical outcomes at that hospital? This is supposed to be an inquiry into children's spinal and spina bifida care. The inquiry cannot limit itself to examining what hospital management knew about the implantation of non-medical springs in children while failing to investigate the clinical outcomes, complications and long-term consequences of spinal surgery for the children. Families are not asking for an inquiry into paperwork or management knowledge alone. They are asking what happened to their children, whether harm could have been prevented and who was responsible. Will the Minister expand module 2 to place children's clinical outcomes, experiences and long-term well-being at the centre of this inquiry? It is clear that the Minister and her colleagues are hiding from public inquiry because they know that they have failed these children and their families. The appointment of an independent mediator was agreed by all parties on 12 November last year. The T\u00e1naiste, Simon Harris, welcomed this development. A year on, there is still no mediator and the Chief Medical Officer, CMO, has still not appointed an outside clinician as requested by the Minister. This Government should not be putting up barriers to truth and accountability. I will close with the words of a parent in my constituency: As parents of a child that had a non-registered medical device implanted without our consent or knowledge, we feel that we have been left with more questions than answers. To narrow down the TORs to one question regarding this particular scandal is completely unacceptable. Our experience since the scandal broke three years ago has shown that a public inquiry will be the only way to get answers to the continued secrecy around the mismanagement of CHI that has left our child with physical and emotional scars for life. The only way to restore any trust going forward is to hold a public inquiry. This should not have been allowed to happen to our child."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Marie Sherlock I welcome all of the families in the Public Gallery. Today should have been a day of celebration because, after many years of fighting for justice for their children and the right care for their children, there would finally have been an inquiry into the wrongs that happened in CHI. Instead, we are here arguing with the Minister about this inquiry and how it is flawed from the get-go. One of the biggest sins in politics is to give people false expectations. Not only is it dishonest, but it is also hugely corrosive of the trust in people making decisions. The parents of children with scoliosis and complex spinal needs have had their trust in the institutions of the State dented time and again through repeated failures and the lack of timely care for their children in CHI. After the disastrous promises made by Simon Harris back in 2017, I would have thought that no Minister would walk into a meeting and give such clear commitments only to turn on them a short time afterwards. We have to understand why people want a public inquiry. For years, they have been gaslit and told they were hysterical and finding fault where none existed. They were told that they were in the wrong when that was not true. As Deputy Rice said, and it is a phrase I often use, they want the disinfectant of sunlight on the culture and management of CHI, but they are not clear about whether they will get this. The understanding of those in the room on 25 November was that there were clear commitments made to the public inquiry and that there would be a collaborative approach to the terms of reference. The argument can be made that the Minister has to devolve responsibility to a senior counsel to understand what the most appropriate forum is, but the Minister is an experienced politician. So is the T\u00e1naiste, Deputy Harris. The Minister knew exactly what was being committed to in that room. The reality is that is not what the families are getting now. The reality is also that we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to uncover systemic cultural and governance failures in CHI. We have to get it right. The Minister talked about wanting it to be inclusive and comprehensive, and I agree. As this stands, though, I do not believe it is. On the issue of public versus private, I have had a certain sympathy with the notion of it being in private because these are children, some of whom will grow up to be adults and some who will not make it. The reality is we cannot underestimate the depth of frustration and distrust that so many of these families have in the systems of the State. They do not want the decisions about the sampling to be made in private. They do not trust the process for who will be selected. They want to know who will be before the inquiry to make sure that everybody who should be will be. Unless it is in public, they will not have confidence in this very large undertaking by the State in terms of a commission of investigation. It is a small number of children in the general scheme of things. I do not see any reason that all of those children's cases could be not gone through. Some of them will have been a success - in fact, many of them will have been - but there are lots of others who have been failed. We cannot take the risk that some of those will be excluded. The other critical issue that has already been mentioned is the 2019 cut-off. To be very frank, the Remy Farrell report offers no convincing reason to exclude children treated at CHI before 2019 other than for administrative reasons. That is simply not good enough. We know that there were reports going back to 2014 in Temple Street. We know that many children's issues do not specifically relate to just before or after their surgeries. Those issues go back a long time. There are families here today whose children have finally got surgery and, hopefully, those children will go on to live fulfilling lives. There are other families where it is too late for their children and the time is now ticking for those children as to how long they live. There are other families whose children have died. In the Public Gallery today, we have William and Anne-Marie Clooney from County Laois who lost their son, Cathal, five years ago just six weeks after scoliosis surgery. He was 15 years of age. He effectively bled out after a series of complications after his surgery. To be honest, I am haunted by what his dad has said to me over the last number of weeks. He said that no one knew how anything happened. To this day, they still do not have answers. There were a litany of errors and issues in Cathal's care. He was never properly diagnosed. It was only after his death that they finally realised what the condition was. In his 15 years going to CHI, never once was there a blood test for his type of condition. He was visually inspected at the age of about one week old and doctors worked off that diagnosis for his 15 years of care. The family were told varying things about Cathal's condition after his death. They were originally told that he had had Covid, then he had not had it, and then they were told again that he had had it. The family did not know that he had had sepsis. Most crucially, when the part-post mortem was undertaken, there were things written in it that the family had never been made aware of before, for example, he had known severe Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, EDS, and a respiratory condition. The family knew that he had EDS but they did not know it was severe and they certainly never believed he had a respiratory condition. The family was effectively told that he would not have had long to live anyway. That is a reflection of the culture and manner in which families were treated. When Cathal's family requested an inquest, they were originally told they would probably get one. They were then told \"No\", and it was only because they initiated legal proceedings that they were finally granted one. It is also important to say that a HSE official told them that if they ever spoke out, they would be accused of slander. We have to understand the culture of oppression that these families have been treated with and the critical importance of having their stories told in public. The reality is an inquest will not give all of the answers to that family. It will deal with his death but it will not deal with the lack of diagnosis going back 15 years when that child was born and in the days after his birth. There are families who believe they will not be included in this process. It is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to get this right. If we are doing it, we might as well do it right. It is going to take years and I do not think any of us should fool ourselves into thinking it will completed in the next two or three years. If it will take years, let us make sure that we give confidence to the families that they will be included. The Nayagam review commenced three and a half years ago. Phase 1 has been completed and we are waiting a very long time for phase 2. I know the Minister has said it will be 2027 when we get that report, and that should provide some answers as to the systemic flaws within CHI, but we need a public inquiry with a cut-off date long before 2019 to capture the vast majority of the children who are still under the care of CHI. It is not good enough that we limit ourselves at this point in time to a narrowly framed commission that has been promised to families to finally give them answers. It is a failure if they walk away from today feeling that they will not get the answers from something that will cost the State a lot of money and take a long time. I am pleading with the Minister. It is time to get it right. Let us not commence until the Minister gets it right and make sure that those walking away from the Public Gallery today and all of the others watching in feel and believe that the Government and the State are behind them in getting answers for their families."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Neville The reason we are here today is to start a process of getting answers. That is an important and significant step. I want to begin the debate with the families who have joined us here today."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Children's Health Ireland: Statements"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-10-22"},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-10-22T13:22:38+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-10-21","counts":{"contributorCount":154,"divisionCount":9,"debateSectionCount":22,"questionCount":0,"billCount":8},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aindrias Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Aindrias-Moynihan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Aindrias Moynihan) I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case: Deputy Erin McGreehan - To discuss the national cancer control programme's proposed national radioligand therapy plan. Deputy Duncan Smith - To discuss the current roadworks and traffic congestion issues in Swords. Deputy Cathal Crowe - To discuss an application made by a school in County Clare to become a Gaelscoil. Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss measures to tackle the rate of youth unemployment. Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne - To discuss funding for increased capacity on Galway commuter bus routes. Deputy Aidan Farrelly - To discuss staffing issues at Naas General Hospital. Deputy Conor D. McGuinness - To discuss primary care in Waterford. Deputy Louise O'Reilly - To discuss the need for EV charging infrastructure to be located in developments. Deputy Donna McGettigan - To discuss calls for women to be told their breast density and for further tests to be made available. Deputy Michael Cahill - To discuss contamination of the Ballyheigue public water supply in County Kerry. Deputy Ryan O'Meara - To discuss the need for a full review of trespass laws in rural Ireland. Deputy Jen Cummins - To discuss the improvements needed for diagnosis of ADHD. Deputy Thomas Gould - To discuss the opening of the dementia unit in Heather House and the closure of the dementia unit in Sarsfield Court. Deputies Michael Murphy and Mattie McGrath - To discuss the need to strengthen Uisce \u00c9ireann\u2019s accountability to D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann. Deputies Tom Brabazon, Barry Heneghan, Cian O'Callaghan and Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed - To discuss the ongoing delays with the new school building project at Gaelchol\u00e1iste Reachrann. Deputy Roderic O'Gorman - To discuss the case of a student from Gaza who has had his visa for study in Ireland refused. The matters raised by Deputies Cathal Crowe, Erin McGreehan, Aidan Farrelly, Donna McGettigan and Ryan O'Meara have been selected for discussion."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_4","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Education Policy","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_4","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathal Crowe I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Moynihan, very much for taking this Topical Issue matter this morning. I want to raise a very important issue, which relates to rural education and the preservation of the all-important Irish language in my constituency of Clare. This morning I want to highlight a community initiative led by St. Patrick's National School in the village of O'Callaghan's Mills in east Clare. Like far too many of our fine national schools, St. Patrick's National School has seen a heavy change in local demographics. In recent years the number of children enrolling has plummeted. However, rather than accepting a very slow decline of the school and its enrolment numbers, the relatively newly appointed principal, Gr\u00e1inne Conlon, along with the board of management and the local community, has refused to let the school fade into the background. Instead, the school has come forward with a visionary and very practical solution, namely, the reopening of the school as a Gaelscoil in September 2027. There is a massive geographical gap in our educational infrastructure as there is no Gaelscoil whatsoever in the entire east Clare region. The Minister of State has visited Gaelscoil Mh\u00edch\u00edl C\u00edos\u00f3g, a fine school in Ennis led by D\u00f3nal \u00d3 hAinif\u00e9in. This is a long way out the road for those living in east Clare who would like to have their children educated through the medium of Irish. They have to go much further afield. St. Patrick's National School in O'Callaghan's Mills proposes to fix this. Under its proposal, the school would begin an eight-year transition phase starting in September 2027, when it would welcome a new intake of junior infants who would be in senior infants the following year and then first class the year after that. Within an eight-year period, it would become a scoil l\u00e1n-Ghaeilge. I have been to visit the school and I have spoken to Gr\u00e1inne Conlon and her staff. I am fully supportive of their campaign and I know it enjoys widespread political backing from other TDs and colleagues in Clare as well as councillors. It has community and political backing. We are looking for the full backing of the Minister of State as well. As I have said, the campaign enjoys widespread support. A recent local survey of the community confirmed that more than 100 people in the school catchment area are fully in favour of an Irish-medium school in their locality. Furthermore, a crucial step was achieved recently when Bishop Fintan Monahan of the Killaloe diocese formally gave his permission to explore the transition. There is backing from parents, politicians, the parish, the board, language advocates and the bishop. The benefits of this transition are clear. It would revitalise a vital rural community hub. Crucially, a return to a three-classroom model would allow the school to access additional special education and learning support hours that are currently restricted due to the school having very low numbers. In a debate in the Chamber yesterday, the Taoiseach acknowledged to me that using an existing undercapacity school structure to meet a glaring and unfulfilled demand for Irish-medium education makes absolute financial and social sense. It would save the State from building a brand-new school at a time when capital projects are very much to the pin of their collar. It would also protect the future of the rural school, the rural community and the hinterland that surrounds it. The community has done all of the heavy lifting to date. The school has the vision, there is local demand and it has the patron's blessing. What it now needs is a firm and unequivocal commitment from the Department of education. Will the Minister of State confirm that the Department of education will formally sanction, approve and fully resource St. Patrick's National School in O'Callaghan's Mills, County Clare to successfully open its doors as a Gaelscoil in September 2027?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Education and Youth (Deputy Michael Moynihan) I thank Deputy Crowe for his question. To give some background, the Department of Education and Youth has been engaging with school communities and school patron bodies throughout the country through the primary school survey, which is the largest of its kind. It is examining the vision for the future of primary school education across the system, including, for example, whether schools want to change patronage or have co-education or single-sex education. The Department has been working throughout the primary school sector on one of the biggest surveys of its kind to see what is the future for schools. St. Patrick's National School in O'Callaghan's Mills has completed the online expression of interest as part of the survey. It has indicated its interest in changing from teaching through English to teaching through Irish. The Department is very much looking at schools and school communities, and at the renewed interest in the Irish language throughout school sectors, particularly at primary and post-primary levels. The school has engaged very thoroughly in reaching out to its board and then to its patron and to its community. As the Deputy said in his contribution, it has done much of the heavy lifting. It has gone about examining the possibility of teaching through the medium of Irish in a very earnest and serious way. It has also seen the level of interest from the wider community, as I understand it, and not just from within O'Callaghan's Mills. This is currently being evaluated by the Department. I assure the Deputy that we are taking each and every application extremely seriously. We are also looking at schools such as St. Patrick's National School to see the vision they have outlined in their documents to the Department. Their proactive approach is very much in keeping with what the Department is seeking. We are currently evaluating all the applications received. I assure the Deputy that we will give very serious consideration to the points he has made this morning and has consistently made to me regarding St. Patrick's National School in O'Callaghan's Mills, not only during this discussion on the floor of the D\u00e1il this morning but throughout our other discussions. I compliment the school community, the school leadership and the wider community on their engagement, the way they have presented their papers and their work to ensure they have engaged thoroughly with the Department. I understand that my Department is engaging with the school regularly, but decisions in that regard will be taken in due course."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathal Crowe I sincerely thank the Minister of State for his response. It is encouraging. The Department is very aware of this issue. Indeed, it is in almost daily contact with the principal, Gr\u00e1inne Conlon. It is important to say a few things about the school itself. Ms Conlon has taught in Irish-medium schools. I think she has taught in three Gaelscoileanna elsewhere in the county. A deputy principal was hired recently, and his appointment was very much geared around the fact that this school could be a Gaelscoil in September 2027. The skill set is on site. The Minister of State's constituency of Cork North-West and my constituency of Clare are very similar in demographics, although the geography might be somewhat different. I have seen, as I am sure the Minister of State has, far too many of these schools go into decline. While St. Patrick's National School is some way off having to close, and I do not think anyone is saying that is on the cards, Ms Conlon and the board of management are very much realists. They are saying they will not let the school decline any further. There is an unmet demand for a Gaelscoil in the whole area of east Clare. A huge swathe of the county, more than half of it, has no Gaelscoil, and this school is ready to meet that demand. Time is of the essence. I accept and appreciate that there has been a huge level of engagement and back-and-forth contact with the Department. That is acknowledged. If this school is to open as a Gaelscoil in September 2027, it realistically needs to know this side of Christmas. It must do everything from ordering books and updating school plans to holding open nights. Crucially, parents in the catchment area, and we are not just talking about the village itself but an area extending perhaps 10 or 12 miles beyond it, need to be able to make informed decisions. As I said, the proposal, of course, has the backing of the principal and deputy principal. The board, the parents, the community, the bishop, the patron and the politicians are also on board. There is overwhelming demand for this Gaelscoil. I hope we will get good news in the coming weeks. I do not think we can wait until the spring for an answer. Will the Department appoint a dedicated liaison officer? Several people are dealing with the principal, but she needs one constant point of contact until, hopefully, the proposal is approved. Does the Minister of State have any definitive timelines?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Michael-Moynihan.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Moynihan As the Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach will agree, our constituencies are alike. That is why I spent so many happy times in Clare during August. Returning to the points raised, we have engaged very thoroughly. There is a dedicated and effective team within the Department of education looking at the applications from schools that want to change from English-medium to Irish-medium education. In the programme for Government and the policy announced in November 2025, we committed to ensuring that we have Gaelscoileanna and Gaelchol\u00e1ist\u00ed across the country. We have seen a tremendous uptake and interest in learning through Irish, and we have to compliment that interest across the country. The team within the Department is very thorough. I have engaged closely with it on this and other issues, and it is working closely with the schools concerned. I know it has been engaging with school communities to provide definitive information to schools that would be opening in September 2027. I do not want to give the Deputy a definitive timeline on the floor of the D\u00e1il this morning. I take what the Deputy has said earnestly and seriously, and I will relay it to the Department. I have no doubt that the relevant section in the Department is working closely with St. Patrick's National School in O'Callaghan's Mills. It is important as well that there is an early lead-in time. The school has put up its hand. It has shown that it has public representatives, the patron, the school community and the wider community on board. Those are hugely important building blocks for moving forward. I will take back what the Deputy has said. Expanding Gaelscoileanna and Gaelchol\u00e1ist\u00ed across the country is an important part of the programme for Government and the policy in the Department. We will continue to liaise with the school in O'Callaghan's Mills."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Education Policy"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_5","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Cancer Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_5","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Erin McGreehan The Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, is very welcome to the House. When somebody has advanced cancer, being told that another treatment exists brings real hope. Discovering they cannot access it in Ireland brings an entirely different feeling of desperation. That is why I am raising the urgent need for a funded national plan for radioligand therapy, with the infrastructure, staff and access to medicines needed to deliver it. I acknowledge the progress being made in our cancer services and the commitment to delivering them, but we have to be honest about where the system is falling short. The radioligand therapy advisory group of the national cancer control programme, NCCP, recommended the development of a national plan, yet I understand that this group has not met since March 2025. The responses to my parliamentary questions indicate that this work has not been prioritised by the Department of Health or the office of the chief clinical officer of HIQA during 2025 and 2026. Why has that expert recommendation not been translated into a funded programme of work? I ask this question with real concern. How can we prepare for and deliver the next generation of cancer treatments if the planning needed to deliver them is not being prioritised? We need to know who is responsible, what resources are required and when the national plan will be delivered. Separately, I was recently informed that the HSE senior leadership team has reached a final decision not to reimburse Pluvicto, a radioligand treatment for certain patients with advanced prostate cancer. I understand that Novartis spent four years seeking reimbursement and, while disappointed, has accepted the decision. It is probable that our patients in Ireland will never gain access to this treatment. Four years is an enormous length of time for patients looking for an advanced treatment, only not to get it now. These are people hoping for another Christmas, another birthday and more time with their families. It would be helpful to have an explanation of why this application failed. This debate, however, is about more than one drug. It tells us about our wider reimbursement system. Our processes are not equipped to assess and introduce advanced therapies in a timely, fair and sustainable way. The health policy partnership White Paper identified practical work that is required, including national leadership, workforce planning, infrastructure investment, better data collection and co-ordinated access pathways. Those recommendations deserve a focus. We need suitable treatment facilities, diagnostic capacity, radiopharmacy services, radiation protection arrangements and trained specialist teams. We also need access to the medicines themselves. A treatment room without funded treatment will do nothing for patients. The new national cancer strategy has to address this properly and be ambitious. Radioligand therapy needs to be an explicit commitment, backed by capital investment, recurring funding, workforce targets and delivery dates. Planning services and accessing medicines have to proceed alongside each other. We cannot keep waiting until a treatment arrives before asking whether we have the capacity to deliver it. For patients in Louth and throughout the country, access must depend on a clinical need and be supported by clear referral pathways. I hope the Minister of State can bring back this issue to the Minister for Health to seek a commitment to reconvene the radioligand therapy advisory group of the NCCP, to progress a funded national plan concerning how the Department and the HSE are planning to keep pace with science, and to request that they also start looking at how advanced therapies are being denied to our loved ones who have cancer. We have made real progress in cancer care. Our responsibility is now to ensure that treatments will reach patients when they still have time to benefit from them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment (Deputy Alan Dillon) I thank Deputy McGreehan for raising this important issue in regard to radioligand therapy provision here in Ireland. I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill. I assure the Deputy that her steadfast advocacy in respect of the provision of treatment services for cancer patients is appreciated by all. I also assure her that the Government is committed to providing timely access to new and innovative medicines to all patients, including those with cancer, alongside the planned development of the infrastructure required to safely deliver such therapies. In 2024, St. Vincent's University Hospital in Dublin was designated the initial site in Ireland for the delivery of radioligand therapy. In 2025, that site received European certification as a centre of excellence in theranostics. This certification is a testament to the exceptional work being done in this area, serving to reinforce the growing importance of radioligand therapy in Ireland and underscoring the Government's efforts to advance progress in this important field. To build upon this progress, the HSE's NCCP has engaged with cancer centres and nuclear medicine specialists and established the radioligand therapy advisory group to support consideration of service requirements. Established in 2025, the group is chaired by the national director of the NCCP, and its membership is drawn from across the health spectrum, including representatives from the NCCP, consultant clinicians, radiation oncologists and specialists. The purpose of the group is to consider, on the basis of the need identified, plans for the future development of radioligand therapy services, including recommended norms in relation to service provision, planning and staffing considerations for facilities. In its initial stages, membership of this group is expected to last for a period of three years, within which the group will meet to consider approaches that may be taken for the furtherance of planning necessary to best advance this treatment. There are numerous interdependencies to be considered. The HSE has advised that challenges persist in the delivery of radioligand therapy in Ireland, particularly in terms of infrastructure and capacity. As with any complex area of service delivery, a measured and well-considered approach to planning is paramount. It is towards the progression of this objective that the NCCP's radioligand therapy advisory group is currently engaged, and work remains ongoing in this regard. I accept and understand the concerns the Deputy raised in her opening statement regarding the pace and prioritisation, and I will certainly ensure that those concerns are conveyed to the Minister and that the Department continues to work on making progress on the Government's commitments. The Government has demonstrated its appetite to deliver innovative cancer treatments through significant investments in recent years in regard to medicines. Supporting the development of radioligand therapy is also an important priority."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Erin McGreehan I thank the Minister of State for that response. My question was one that I would like to be conveyed to the Minister. The NCCP radioligand therapy advisory group recommended a national plan. It has not met since March 2025. It is now October, nearly November, 2026. It is going to be stood down. It is going to be in existence for only three years. If its members are not meeting, they are not working. The Department of Health has not implemented the group's current asks. Of course, it is welcome that since 2024 St. Vincent's University Hospital has been a centre of excellence for theranostics. However, one centre is not enough. The Lancet states that the patient pool across Europe could rise from the current 11,000 to 13,000 people a year to nearly 200,000 a year across Europe. We, through a lack of investment in infrastructure, a lack of planning and a lack of a robust reimbursement scheme, are going to fail future patients. We need our next national cancer strategy to be very ambitious and keep pace with science, and we need to ensure it is absolutely fully funded, not only on the infrastructural, clinical and diagnostic sides but also on the treatment side."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Dillon I acknowledge Deputy McGreehan's continued advocacy on this issue on behalf of all the cancer patients who are seeking access to the latest treatment options. I said in my opening remarks that her persistent voice in this area is very welcome. I recognise the importance of the concerns she has raised in regard to the ongoing engagement of the advisory group and the fact that it has not met since last year. The issue very much surrounds the clinical capacity, the infrastructure and the evidence base necessary to support a safe and sustainable national service. Everyone in this House shares the same objective, which is that we want Irish patients to receive timely access to innovative cancer treatments and get the best possible outcomes. That is really the point the Deputy is raising here today. It is clear that the delivery of these services involves significant considerations. I hope that this work will advance in the next national cancer programme and that we will have specialist staff, capacity, long-term service planning and, indeed, the infrastructure to deliver the services. I will ensure that the Deputy\u2019s concerns, which are understandable and deserve to be heard, are brought back to the Minister for Health for further consideration."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cancer Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_6","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Hospital Staff","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_6","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aidan Farrelly I want to speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, about some emerging issues in Naas General Hospital. I have spoken to the Minister of State previously about the context of County Kildare and the population growth in the county since the early 1990s, when it had a population of approximately 100,000 people. Now we are in a situation where we have 250,000 people and, if we keep growing at the rate at which we have done for the next 20 years or so, we will have a population of half a million by 2050. I say that to set the scene because, as we know, such a significant population increase places significant pressure on our critical infrastructure. Understandably, people want to live in County Kildare. Nowhere is the pressure more acute than at Naas General Hospital right now. Last week, we were invited to a meeting by the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation which was attended by nurses and consultants who spoke really honestly about the reality of working in Naas General Hospital right now. Their experience and stories about what they are facing are very concerning. They spoke about significant increases in presentations at the accident and emergency department without any increase in the numbers of nurses and consultants. We also heard from the head of the physiotherapy department, who said patients face a four-and-a-half-year wait from referral to engagement when it comes to physiotherapy. That essentially means many people will never receive a service. We also heard from Lakeview, which is one of the busiest psychiatric and mental health services in the country. It is desperately underfunded. We heard a comparison made with a Border region that has one third of the population of the HSE catchment area in which Lakeview is situated, but receives four times the mental health services funding, specifically for acute care and inpatient care, which are very important areas of care. My concern arises from the fact that we still have not met the 2024 allocation of staff. Sanctioned posts have not been filled despite numerous attempts by those responsible. We now find ourselves in a position where the management team and the HSE cannot hire. Responsibility comes back to the Department of Health to sanction posts in Naas General Hospital. However, two weeks ago at the public accounts committee, of which I am a member, the same Department's officials told me after questioning that it needs to find a reduction of \u20ac100 million in its staffing bill this year alone. We have a situation where we simply do not have adequate or safe staffing levels in Naas General Hospital to the point where we see the real prospect of bed closures, while the Department says it needs to reduce its human resources bill by \u20ac100 million. How do we get around this? We do not need appeasement. Kildare needs proper representation and to be catered for. We are continuously being forgotten when it comes to health services, school places and public transport. We need, at the least, a commitment that Department officials will travel to Naas hospital to meet staff members and patients in order to understand that this is not simply a matter of being over budget but, rather, under-resourced."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Dillon I thank the Deputy for raising this Topical Issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill. As he outlined, Naas General Hospital plays a vital role in providing acute hospital services to the people of Kildare, west Wicklow and the surrounding areas. The Government recognises the importance of ensuring the hospital has the staff, resources and capacity needed to provide safe, high-quality care for a growing population. That commitment is reflected in sustained investment. The hospital\u2019s budget for 2026 is \u20ac131 million, an increase of almost 60% since 2022. Its workforce has grown by almost 42% since January 2020, with a further 52 whole-time equivalent staff added between December 2025 and August 2026. Staffing growth at Naas has exceeded growth across acute hospital services nationally over both periods. Alongside this investment, inpatient bed capacity has increased. However, growth in funding and staff numbers is only part of the picture. Workforce planning must also have the right mix of staff and skills available to meet patient needs, cover absences and support services as demand changes. Recruitment is continuing across a range of staff disciplines at Naas. The wider HSE approach includes supporting healthcare graduates into employment, strengthening domestic and international recruitment and encouraging healthcare professionals working abroad to return home through project home. The development of a national staff bank is also being progressed to provide greater flexibility and reduce reliance on agency staffing. Retention is equally important. Staff need predictable working arrangements and a working environment that supports them to remain in the service. At Naas, a new 22-week rota for emergency department non-consultant hospital doctors provides greater certainty about work schedules and reduces the need for short-notice roster changes. This is a practical example of how workforce planning can support both staff and service delivery. There has also been progress under the framework for safe nurse staffing and skill mix. The latest information provided confirms that baseline staffing under the framework has been achieved across inpatient wards and in the emergency department. The supporting TrendCare system has been fully operational at Naas since July, helping the hospital assess nursing requirements against patients\u2019 care needs in real time. Alongside this progress, reducing reliance on agency staffing must remain a clear priority. The latest nursing information confirms that agency staff and overtime hours continue to cover permanent vacancies and temporary absences. Agency staff play an important role in maintaining services, but ongoing staffing needs should increasingly be met through direct employment. Targeted recruitment, conversion of appropriate agency roles to direct employment and better rostering should support that transition, while protecting patient safety and continuity of care. Workforce planning is also about making the best use of the staff and capacity already available. Naas has demonstrated the benefits of this approach as an early adopter of the outpatient improvement toolkit. By June this year, that work had added more than 4,000 new outpatient appointments since 2025 through to 2026. Building on this progress, better scheduling and co-ordination of staffing, outpatient clinics, theatre sessions and diagnostics can help more patients receive timely care and ensure that investment delivers the greatest outcome. The Department of Health and the HSE will continue to work with hospital management to keep workforce and resourcing requirements under review. The objective is to ensure that investment at Naas supports staff in delivering safe, timely and high-quality care to the communities and the hospital itself."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aidan Farrelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Aidan-Farrelly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aidan Farrelly I thank the Minister of State for that reply on the behalf of the Minister and the Department. For the record, the piece of the reply I will draw attention to is the figure of 52 additional staff in Naas General Hospital between December 2025 and August 2026. Of those 52, only five are nurses. The Minister of State told us that we had 52 additional staff members in Naas but he provided no detailed breakdown as to who they are. We do not know whether they are healthcare workers or administrative staff. What we know, however, is that five of them are nurses. Equally, we know that we also lost five nurses between July and August of this year, so we are at a break-even point. That manifests itself when people present to the accident and emergency department, wait for hours and watch on as overburdened staff try to fight fires in every corner of the room. I have witnessed it first hand. I commend, as everyone in this House does, including the Minister of State, their Trojan commitment. I looked in people\u2019s eyes last week \u2013 I do not try to overstate this \u2013 and saw the despair of professionals at risk of burnout and walking away from a career they love simply because it is unsustainable, given that they leave with worry or the on-call system places even greater demands on them. I do not get any reassurance from the reply that there are not any problems in this regard and that is a concern. It is something we will all continue to raise. We all know that, right now, negotiations are under way to try to stave off the prospect of bed closures in Naas. With a population of 250,000, we have to avoid that. I ask the Minister of State to convey the sincerity by which we tried to raise this Topical Issue with the Minister and the Department to see if we can avoid that situation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Dillon I thank the Deputy for his contribution and for highlighting the challenges facing staff and patients in Naas General Hospital. We are all in agreement that healthcare workers are the backbone of our health service. Every doctor, nurse, healthcare professional and support staff member who comes to work every day plays a critical role in delivering care to patients. I know the Deputy has delivered that with sincerity. We, as a Government, recognise that recruitment and retention remain significant challenges not just in Naas, but across the healthcare service in Ireland and internationally. That is why considerable investment has been made in staffing, workforce growth and hospital resources over recent years. Increasing staff numbers alone is not enough. We also need to retain experienced staff, as the Deputy said, improve workforce planning, provide more predictable workforce arrangements and reduce our reliance on temporary staff. The issues the Deputy raised today regarding recruitment, retention and workforce pressures in Naas are important. They deserve continued attention. As I said earlier, I will bring these points back to the Minister. I will ensure the concerns the Deputy has expressed this morning are conveyed and that the Department of Health and the HSE continue to keep staffing requirements under review so that patients in Naas, Kildare and across the country receive safe and timely care. Everyone in this House will agree that we need a strong hospital service and better outcomes for patients and communities. We are very much dependent on the staff to deliver that."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Hospital Staff"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_7","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Cancer Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_7","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donna McGettigan I want to raise the call for women to be told their breast density before they are told they have cancer. Almost half of all women have dense breasts and it is important to note that dense breasts are normal. Dense breast tissue is made up of glands and fibrous tissue. However, on a mammogram, cancer shows up as white but so too does breast density. Looking for a cancerous tumour in a dense breast is like looking for a ball of cotton in a snow storm. While having dense breasts does not mean one will automatically have cancer, it does carry an increased risk of developing breast cancer. Having high breast density can mask cancer and the denser the tissue, the whiter the mammogram. High breast density cannot be detected by a physical examination. It is identified solely through medical imaging. In Ireland, breast density is not currently recorded during BreastCheck screening mammograms. In the words of Laurna, \"Breast density isn't just words\". It is information about a woman's body that belongs to her. It is a question of ethics and personal autonomy and knowing one's breast density matters. It is critical information that will inform shared consent and shared decision-making and could help guard against the harmful effects of a potentially delayed diagnosis of breast cancer. Most diagnostic and hospital screening mammogram facilities use 3D Tomosynthesis equipment that gives a breast density reading. There is no reason not to pass this information on to women. We heard from several women at a presentation in the audiovisual room recently who had all been diagnosed with breast cancer and all of them said that they had never been told their breast density and the condition may have prevented earlier diagnosis. In fact, we heard from one woman who knew her breast density and although she got a clear mammogram result four months earlier, she took the decision to investigate further and discovered that she had a stage one invasive lobular carcinoma. Evan was lucky and after surgery she was in the clear, with no evidence of the disease. She said that if she had not known that she had dense breasts, she would have not gone for further tests and would, therefore, not have known that she had breast cancer. Many women are not so lucky. Lobular breast cancer is the second most common subtype of breast cancer, accounting for 15% of all breast cancers annually. Treating advanced breast cancer requires significantly more intensive, invasive and costly medical interventions. As Laurna put it, \"Breast density isn't just words\". It affects husbands, partners, children and the wider family. The human cost is enormous. The financial costs of being out of work, the costs to the State of extensive surgeries and treatments and the mental health costs are all avoidable. Countries like the USA, Canada, France and Austria inform women of their breast density. Margaret asked why the HSE and the Government are denying women this basic information about their bodies. These women have asked that the Government would stop using mixed messages and stop using women's anxiety as a reason to withhold this clinically relevant information. They said that this is playing with women's lives. They have a petition with over 10,000 signatures, so this is not a small group. Like myself, a lot of women have never heard of dense breasts. I first heard about it only last year. The fact is that when many women first hear about it, usually it is when they are being told that they have cancer. Then they have to go through extensive treatment or for some, like Hannah, stage four cancer, with no good result at the end."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Dillon I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to discuss the important matter of breast density notification. I am taking this issue on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill. Enhancing Ireland\u2019s population screening programmes is a priority for the Minister. These programmes are a vital component of our health services. Dense breast tissue is common. Around half of all women have dense breasts and it is a normal variation in breast tissue. Breast density is one of several factors that can influence breast cancer risk. It is very important to say, however, that having dense breasts does not mean someone will develop breast cancer. High levels of breast density can make mammograms more difficult to interpret in some women. However, breast density alone does not automatically mean that further imaging is required. Decisions about additional imaging are made on an individual basis by the clinical team as part of a woman's assessment and diagnosis. BreastCheck mammograms remain the best screening test available for population breast screening for women aged between 50 and 69. It can save lives by finding many cancers early, often before symptoms develop. It is important to know that mammography detects the majority of breast cancers, including in women with dense breasts. Consideration of any changes to Ireland\u2019s screening programmes is facilitated through established evidence-driven protocols. The national screening advisory committee, NSAC, is the expert group that advises on any proposed changes to Ireland\u2019s screening programmes. At the request of the committee, the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, has commenced a health technology assessment, HTA, to consider proposals for the expansion of the BreastCheck programme. This review comprises three distinct components. One is the proposed extension of the age range eligibility to those aged between 45 and 49. Another is the extension of age range to those aged from 70 to 74. The third element is the potential introduction of a standardised breast density notification. HTAs facilitate the assessment of relevant evidence on the effects and consequences of healthcare technologies or programmes. They seek to guide decisions regarding the appropriate use of technology and efficient allocation of resources. They involve a multidisciplinary assessment of clinical, economic, ethical, legal and societal perspectives that may be impacted by the introduction of a new technology or programme. HTAs are, by their nature, time intensive and rigorous processes that must be afforded the necessary time to complete. This is particularly relevant in the context of the BreastCheck HTA, which, as I said, is considering three distinct areas, including the potential reporting of breast density. It is expected that the final HIQA HTA report on all three elements will be submitted to the NSAC before the end of 2027. Once received, the committee will consider the findings and make a recommendation to the Minister for Health. The introduction or expansion of any new screening service requires careful consideration, particularly when we are considering all the clinical, ethical, societal, legal and economic perspectives. The Minister wishes to develop services that are clinically effective and have positive health outcomes. This is particularly relevant in the context of significant differences in international clinical opinion on the incorporation of breast density notification into screening. This emphasises the need for an evidence-led approach to ensure that any decision serves the best interests of Irish women."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donna McGettigan I thank the Minister of State for answering this question on behalf of the Minister for Health. The departmental response states that BreastCheck mammography remains the best screening option because it detects the majority of breast cancers, including in women with dense breasts. However, what the women who presented to us are saying is that in some cases, the cancer has grown to a point where it takes extensive treatment or, for some, it is too late for treatment. Siobh\u00e1n told us that if she had known she had dense breasts, her 7 cm tumour would have been found earlier because she would have insisted on having other forms of breast checks, as she would have known that her dense breasts could be masking cancer, which it was. She could have had a lumpectomy and avoided a mastectomy. She could have had avoided chemotherapy and had the tumour detected earlier so that it would not have spread to her auxiliary nodes. In some cases, BreastCheck clinics use older 2D mammogram equipment but software packages are available that can be used to upgrade these older units. The fact that women are not being told their breast density is nothing short of inequality for women. We are not telling them exactly what is happening with their bodies. I have written to the Minister asking for a meeting with these women who have dense breasts and are suffering with breast cancer. These women will never be the same after a breast cancer diagnosis, especially a delayed diagnosis. Some women will be told too late about their cancer diagnosis and will have to struggle with stage four cancer. They have been on this campaign for ten years and unfortunately some of them are no longer with us. This is going on a long time and it is not just about the physical scars for some. They will have mental scars from this. While I welcome the age range eligibility and the potential report on breast density, in terms of a woman's right to have the information on her body, the potential should be turned into the reality of telling women of their breast density."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Dillon I thank the Deputy for raising her concerns and those of many of the women, families and advocacy groups she mentioned with regard to this issue. We share those concerns. They are being taken seriously by Government. The discussion about breast density notification is important because it relates directly to women's confidence in the screening programme and access to information about their health. At the same time, the Minister for Health has a responsibility to ensure that any changes to the national screening programme are informed by robust clinical evidence and supported by the appropriate clinical pathways. The Deputy will be aware that the health technology assessment under way will examine the potential introduction of a standardised breast density notification as part of the wider review of the BreastCheck programme due to be reported late next year. I acknowledge many women want swifter progress and I understand that from the Deputy's perspective. However, as a Government we are ensuring that we can continue to get the best possible outcomes for women and ensure that women have confidence in the care they receive. There is a timing issue and maybe that is what we differ on, but the objective is aligned, which is that Irish women receive the highest standard of screening information and care possible. That is the effort the Minister and her Department are working towards. I will take back the concerns raised by the Deputy."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cancer Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Legislative Measures","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_3","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ryan O'Meara I welcome the opportunity to raise an important issue causing genuine fear and anxiety across the rural communities I represent in north Tipperary and north-west Kilkenny. On Monday morning, I attended a meeting in Ballingarry, north Tipperary, where approximately 30 farmers met me to discuss trespass on their land and property. What I mean by this are repeated incidents of people entering farmland without permission, often at night, accompanied by lurcher dogs and using lamps or thermal scopes. The area I am talking about is Ballingarry, Carrig Riverstown, Aglish and those parts of lower Ormond north of Borrisokane and south of Birr and Portumna. That is to give a geographic idea. This area is just one example of many across rural Ireland that are experiencing these trespass issues and the intimidation that comes with them. Here are some examples to let the House know what is happening in this area. One farmer told me that the same individuals had returned to his land every week for five consecutive weeks. Another described a group whose lurcher caught a hare. The individual killed the hare in front of the farmer, then threatened the farmer and damaged fencing on his land. A couple of weeks ago, another farmer was threatened with a metal bar by an individual trespassing on his land. Other described electrical fencing being cut, which is not unusual when this stuff happens, livestock escaping onto roads and in one instance an animal being hit by a car. These are not simply disputes about access to land. They are matters of community safety, personal security and animal welfare. People in rural Ireland deserve to feel safe in their own homes and on their own land. Farmers should not have to feel intimidation, threats, repeated trespassing or deliberate damage to their property or goods by people on their land who do not have permission to be there. I want to be clear that this is not a criticism of local garda\u00ed. I recognise the challenges with response times, particularly in rural Ireland. However, farmers have raised concerns about the availability of nearby stations, response times to this rural area, difficulties contacting the local Garda stations and the arrangements of crossing district boundaries to respond to calls. That brings me to the wider concern, which is the amalgamation of the Tipperary and Clare Garda divisions. I believe it was a huge mistake. I opposed it at the time and I continue to oppose it. We are talking about a Garda division that goes from the west coast of Clare - the Atlantic Ocean - down to Carrick-on-Suir in south Tipperary. We should have two separate divisions for the two different counties. Rural communities need visible policing and confidence that assistance can reach them when they need it. I want the Minister for justice to examine whether the current structure is delivering that, particularly for communities that feel isolated from their main Garda station. Nenagh is the main station for the area I am talking about in Ballingarry, but it is quite a distance away. Borrisokane and Roscrea are two other stations in the general locality but they are not open all the time and therefore the response time is a major issue. We also need to address animal welfare issues. However, I want to distinguish clearly between lawful and legitimate conservation activities, and people accessing land with permission to do so, from those who are continually and illegally accessing farmers' land leaving the farmers feeling threatened and unsafe with threats of violence and farmers not knowing what to do and how to deal with this situation. They are afraid that if they tackle trespassers on their land that there will be repercussions for them as well."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Dillon I thank the Deputy for raising this serious matter that deserves the attention of the D\u00e1il. Everyone has the right to feel safe in their local communities. He referred to a meeting in Ballingarry. Acts that undermine people's safety should not be tolerated. Government recognises that community safety is not just about policing but about building communities that are stronger and more resilient. That involves communities themselves building safe and secure communities, contributing to needs across government. Our whole approach to community safety is based on that principle. The National Rural Safety Forum is a perfect example of this approach as its membership consists of Departments, State agencies, social enterprises and representative organisations. The forum is co-chaired by the IFA and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and provides a space for organisations to bring forward issues that can be addressed in a more collaborative manner. Working in conjunction with the forum, the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration developed the rural safety plan up to 2027. The second revision of this plan aims to promote safety in rural communities. That plan was launched at the National Ploughing Championships last year along with the deputy president of the IFA and assistant Garda commissioner for community engagement. Relevant stakeholders had a presence at this year's championship and engaged with tens of thousands of members of the public in relation to the plan and crime in rural areas. Members of the National Rural Safety Forum reflected on the needs of the people they serve and represent and identified four priority areas for the plan to address. This follows an analysis of the impact of previous rural safety plans and consultation with their stakeholders. These priority areas, which form the four pillars of the plan, are community safety and engagement, property crime, road safety and animal welfare crime. To make improvements in these areas, the member organisations have committed to 18 overarching actions. These include individual actions or tackling home burglaries and trespassing on private property. One of the main areas of tackling these issues is Operation Thor, An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na's national anti-burglary initiative which has seen a strong focus on rural areas. Following its introduction, recorded residential burglaries fell from 12,600 in the 2015 winter phase to fewer than 2,600 in the same period of 2026. In respect of the legal position of trespassing itself, as the Deputy will be aware, there is robust legislation in place. Therefore, there are no plans to change the law in this regard. However, it is important that we address the safety, the security and the rights of individuals to enjoy their farm and their home and business without fear of intimidation. The issues Deputy O'Meara has raised deserve greater attention and focus."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ryan O'Meara I thank the Minister of State for his response. To be very straight, the dogs on the street know what these groups are doing when they go onto farmers' land with their lurchers, with their lamps and, in some cases, with their thermal scoping. They should not be on the land to begin with. They are not welcome there. They are repeatedly told that. They do not heed the farmers and indeed it appears the local garda\u00ed when they are told to stay away but we know what they are doing there. They are scoping the land to see what can be robbed. That is what farmers tell me time and again. There are so many rural TDs in this House. The Minister of State himself is one. We all know what they are up to. I do not accept the trespass laws are adequate in this country. If they were and if we had the Garda response times, the farmers in my constituency and rural people in general would feel safe. They would feel protected. I am not trying to be a fearmonger here but this is real. It is palpable. It was palpable when 30 farmers, at 10 a.m. on a fine Monday morning, decided that instead of going out and doing a bit of work - they had already been out that morning working - they would come into a hall and talk to me about these issues because of how concerned they are. What I want to see is the Minister for justice engaging with the Garda Commissioner in relation to rural policing, particularly in this area, which is very isolated - the Ballingarry, Carrig, Riverstown, Eglish and general Lower Ormond area, from the main station in Nenagh. We are struggling to get resources for these people. We need to look at changing the divisional structure that was put in place, where Tipperary and Clare were amalgamated, but we also need a full review of the trespass laws. We need greater protections for our farmers and rural people from these people who are blatantly trespassing, and we know why. We also need greater penalties to deter them from doing so. The farmers tell me that those gangs coming onto their land - we all know where they are coming from - feel untouchable and the law is failing rural people in that regard."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Dillon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Alan-Dillon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Dillon I thank the Deputy for raising this serious matter. I understand the concerns that have been expressed by his constituents, by rural communities, farming organisations and landowners regarding trespassing and the impact that is having on their daily lives. For many people, this issue is not simply around property rights. As I said earlier, rural communities deserve to feel safe and the Government needs to continue to work with An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and representative organisations to support that objective. I certainly recognise the Deputy's concerns raised today. I had a similar scenario in south Mayo, with many farmers and rural dwellers significantly impacted. As in the Deputy's case, public meetings were held. We need to see a response. The Deputy has made a number of points regarding the operation of the current legislative framework. It needs to be looked at again. The Minister for justice, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, and the Commissioner need to review this. We have seen the success of Operation Thor and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na's policing model to deter rural burglaries but we need to look at a targeted approach in regard to this issue alone. As the Deputy said, with thermal lamps and with lurchers, it is evident what the motives of these individuals are. The concerns raised today are really important and I will convey them back to the Minister for justice and ensure he responds."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Legislative Measures"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/92","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/92\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026: Second Stage [Private Members] (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026: Second Stage [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":24,"speakerCount":18},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruth Coppinger I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\" Before I introduce the Bill, I welcome to the Gallery a huge number of people who are representing various groups in the LGBTQI community. I welcome Transgender Equality Network of Ireland, TENI, Belong To, Intersex Ireland, Trans Healthcare Action, ShoutOut and Trans Pride. Apologies, if I have left anyone out. I can come back to it at the end. It gives the Minister an idea of how desperate people in the LGBT+ community are for reform and for change and for him to live up to the promises that his party, Fine Gael and others gave to this community. My Bill proposes to give legal rights and recognition to non-binary and intersex people in Ireland. They are a small minority but they face extreme invisibility, marginalisation, violence and discrimination in this world. The Bill essentially introduces a third option on the gender recognition certificate in addition to M and F, namely, the option of X or Other. Without legal recognition, a non-binary person is systematically discriminated against in accessing healthcare and legal documents and in their interactions with the State and society in general. For a person born with intersex characteristics, it allows a parent or qualified informant to put an X on a birth certificate, meaning that parents would not be forced to immediately choose between male and female. It gives equality before the law and prevents discrimination on these grounds. To be clear, in 2015, Ireland broke new ground in allowing self-determination in terms of gender but progress has completely and utterly stalled since then and here we are 11 years later with nothing done. The review set up by the Government at the time recommended that non-binary people would also be allowed to be recognised on the gender recognition certificate. To give Members an idea of what it means to be non-binary in this society, it refers to any person who identifies outside the binary of male and female. This includes non-binary people but also gender queer people - anyone who sees themselves as being outside the male and female binary. From talking to people, even with something as simple as booking a train ticket, you are immediately asked to put, Mr., Mrs. or Ms, and straightaway, in your life, this affects you and, obviously, your passport and your birth certificate do not reflect who you are. The census was a missed opportunity in terms of identifying how many people would be non-binary. However, if up to 10% of people are LGBTQI, and more people are identifying, in surveys a third would say that they are non-binary. Globally, it is estimated that 2% of the world population identifies in this way. What is intersex? Intersex people are those born with innate variations of sex characteristics that vary from the societal or medical understanding of typical female and male bodies. Approximately, one-in-500 infants, for example, is born with ambiguous genitalia or other variations of sex development and there are over 40 different types of intersex characteristics, which I do not have time to go into. However, I want to make it clear that in October 2025 the Government signed up to a Council of Europe directive on intersex equality and I am disgusted to find out today that the Government is opposing this Bill, that it will not agree to what was recommended in the gender recognition review and it will not agree to what it promised at the Council of Europe which was to recognise intersex people and to cut out, in particular, the unwanted and dangerous medical interventions that are being done on babies in the name of enforcing a rigid gender binary. That has been banned in many countries but it has not been banned in Ireland. One of the reasons for putting forward this Bill is to recognise intersex people and to say that this cannot be enforced medically and pushed onto parents with such dangerous repercussions for people throughout the rest of their lives. The UN estimates that 1.7% of the world population were born with some intersex traits. Regarding the context of the Bill, we all know there is pushback going on in society. The programme for Government is wishy-washy, even compared to the one in 2020. However, it does commit very clearly to inclusivity and to LGBT+ recognition. Yet here is the first Bill that has come before the Government almost two years into the D\u00e1il term, and it is going to oppose it. I would be hugely interested to hear why. I think one of the reasons is that it is afraid. I think the pushback by the far right and extreme right worldwide and in this country has made the Government fearful. I do not understand it because this Bill is very basic. It is just recognition of the law for people with regard to State documents and their interventions with the State. One of the things that was committed to was that there would be an opening up of State Departments but we still do not have that. We have it in many other fora, like the colleges and universities, which are very good in that they allow non-binary recognition in the main - certainly most of the big universities. However, in so many other interactions with the State, such as with the Department of Social Protection and so on, the Government has not opened up anything. This Bill is putting it on the Government agenda to do so. There is also a myth that this is some new fad. Non-binary and intersex people have always existed. Ancient civilisations recognised multigenders, as did many other civilisations from Mesopotamia to Asia. It is in art. It is everywhere. Unfortunately, we have a situation where our State has the Gender Recognition Act, which just allows people to transition from male to female but not to non-binary, and does not recognise intersex people. I want to give an idea of how Ireland has been called out on the UN stage. We had the great 2015 marriage equality referendum, which was obviously a huge push forward. It was led by a grassroots mass movement and pushed onto the Establishment\u2019s agenda. However, Ireland has been called out on the UN stage for its lack of action on this. We are registering zero on these issues. This Bill is a chance for the Government to rectify that. I want to say how important this is for non-binary and intersex people. An EU survey found that one in ten LGBTQI people had faced violence over the past five years. A report in UCD found a 13% increase in discrimination from 2024 to 2026. There is an era of hostility towards LGBT+ people. One in three intersex people has faced violence in Europe over the past five years. We know that one of the first things Trump did was to enforce this rigid gender binary. It is very important for the far right, and for the maintenance of capitalism right now, not to allow any deviation from gender norms. We are seeing an increase in attacks on LGBT+ people worldwide. We should be fighting back against this, and the Bill is a key part of that. It is important to refer to the work of Belong To, which deals particularly with young people. After the midterm break next week, Belong To will have Stand Up week in schools. I was in those schools when I was a teacher. All schools will be talking about non-binary people, yet the State does not recognise them. Children and young people in classrooms, and their teachers, will rightly be encouraged to recognise that, yet the State does not. There is a real problem here. A Belong To survey found that 61% of intersex people reported moderate to severe depression, 60% had self-harmed and 74% had experienced suicidal thoughts. How is that acceptable in our society? Does the Minister not agree that the State refusing to recognise people is a key contributor to that? To conclude, I want to comment on some of the issues that have been raised by TENI, which has made this point crystal clear. All of the LGBT+ organisations are supporting this Bill. It is deeply disappointing for them that the Government is confronting this first Bill with outright opposition. This is not a stop, not a commitment to work on the Bill and let it pass at this stage but just outright opposition. No explanation has been sent, by the way, to the movers of the Bill. TENI made the point that progress has stalled. It has been calling for the expansion of the gender recognition process to non-binary people. It has also said that this is causing huge problems, depression and anxiety for many people. I do not have time to outline them but there are many testimonials."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy I thank Deputy Coppinger for introducing this Bill and thank the campaigners and organisations who have been forced to fight so hard for their rights to be recognised, including TENI, Intersex Ireland, Trans Healthcare Action, Belong To, Trans and Intersex Pride, Transgress the NGS and ShoutOut. It is clear that intersex and non-binary recognition has been deliberately ignored by this Government and the previous one. It is eight years since the Government\u2019s own review of the Gender Recognition Act recommended legal gender recognition for non-binary people. It is in its own national LGBTQI inclusion strategy. However, nothing has been done and instead, the Government is going to vote against the implementation of its own recommendations later today. Everybody knows why. It is because the political pendulum has swung to the right since 2018, and Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael and the right-wing Independents are pandering to that. That is what they are prioritising over the rights and the lives of intersex and non-binary people. We know that across the world, violence, hate crimes and discrimination against LGBTQI people are on the rise. A deliberate strategy of hatred against anyone who is seen as different is being whipped up by the far right, and it is coming right from the top - from Donald Trump and from the big tech bros like Elon Musk. The Government is doing nothing to stop it. Instead of fighting against the tide of hate, it is actually leaning into it. It is going with the flow. That is why legal gender recognition has stalled since 2018, and it is why trans, non-binary, queer and intersex people are increasingly under attack. A lot of people may have never heard of intersex and may not know what it means. They do not realise that 1.7% of people globally are born with intersex characteristics, which means they are born with chromosomes, hormones or anatomy that differ from what is regarded as typically male or female. That has always happened. It is a medically recognised fact. There are tens of thousands of intersex people living in Ireland right now, a largely invisible minority that has been mistreated by the State and the medical profession, and they have had unnecessary surgeries performed on them without their consent. This Bill cannot right all of those historical wrongs but it can give hope to intersex adults who wish to be recognised today as non-binary so they can choose to have their gender marked as X on official documents. It will allow parents to make the same decision for their children until they are old enough to know how they want to be recognised, instead of forcing them to be assigned as male or female at birth and potentially causing them lifelong psychological damage. Belong To has found that 61% of intersex people suffer from depression and half have attempted suicide. This Bill will also allow other non-binary people to have their gender recognised instead of being forced by the State into a box that they do not want to be in and do not fit into. I got an eloquent email last night from a non-binary person in my constituency that describes their experience of non-recognition. It states: For many people, something as simple as filling out a form, booking an appointment, travelling or showing identification is something that they barely think twice about. For me, these everyday situations can be deeply uncomfortable, distressing and humiliating. As a non-binary person, I am constantly forced to identify myself in ways that do not reflect who I am. I am not asking for special treatment. I am asking for the same dignity, respect and recognition that other people are able to take for granted. We deserve to be seen, we deserve to be recognised and we deserve to live our lives without being made to feel ashamed of who we are. Legal recognition will be the first step in defending non-binary people from the discrimination and hate they face, along with other marginalised groups. Denmark, Germany, Iceland, Malta, the Netherlands, Canada, Costa Rica, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, Colombia and 22 US states have already done it. Ireland can and should be next. It is ironic that the loudest, most vociferous opposition to this Bill will come from the right, which prides itself on opposing the so-called nanny state. It is hard to imagine a more intrusive and interfering, more nannyish role for the State than policing gender, forcing people who do not fall into a binary category to mark male or female on a passport or birth certificate. Why should the State have any place in policing how we understand ourselves, our identities and our gender? Of course it should not. Insisting that the State continues to police and enforce the gender binary is part of a general assault on individual freedoms and individual rights. It is time to take a stand against it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charles Ward I thank Deputy Coppinger and her staff for all their work on this very important Bill. Recognising non-binary and intersex people is essential to upholding human rights, equality and dignity for all. At the end of the day, this Bill is about basic human rights. It is about a person's right to live with dignity, respect and recognition. Everyone has the right to have their identity recognised and to participate fully in society without fear of discrimination and exclusion. Acknowledging their experiences affirms that human diversity is a valuable part of a shared humanity. We all experience the world differently. These experiences must be respected and valued for all. Diversity must not only be recognised but celebrated. Diversity enriches our society. It makes communities stronger, more resilient and better equipped to respond to the challenges we face in the world today. Upholding the rights and dignity of non-binary intersex people means creating a society where everyone is free to be themselves, where difference is embraced rather than marginalised, where equality, inclusion and respect are fundamental principles of the world we live in. Recognising the identities can also significantly improve LGBTI mental health and well-being by fostering a sense of belonging, safety, acceptance and reducing stigma and discrimination. Research has consistently found that mental health difficulties are far more prevalent in the LGBTI community. I will repeat what has been said already about recent studies because it is important to get this on the record. Being from the LGBTI community, people in Ireland continue to face high levels of self-harm, suicide and increased levels of depression and anxiety. I will give the Minister statistics. Some 27% of people experience severe symptoms of depression, 34% experience severe symptoms of anxiety, 52% experience self-harm, and 64% reported suicidal thoughts. Let that sink in. A total of 26% have made suicidal attempts. These percentages are higher among young LGBTI people. Some 50% of people between the ages of 14 and 18 have experienced severe symptoms of depression, and 66% have experienced severe symptoms of anxiety, while 72% have experienced self-harm. I am a father and reading these statistics is appalling. Shockingly, the self-harm and suicide percentages are even higher in non-binary people. A total of 75% had self-harmed, 82% reported suicidal thoughts and 39% had attempted suicide. It is an absolutely shocking statistic and the Government is tone deaf to what is going on. It is heartbreaking that so many people have experienced such profound stress. The Government needs to do much better. It needs to recognise people's basic human rights. Every person deserves to feel their life is worth living. Right now, this is not happening in our country. Being accepted and recognised should be a right, not a privilege. There is no doubt that Ireland has made significant progress over the recent decades but far more work needs to be done. We should be ahead. Instead, it feels like we are stuck in 2016. This Bill would go a long way to creating equality for non-binary and intersex people in Ireland. Ultimately, recognising and respecting the non-binary and intersex people is essential to ensuring that everyone in our country enjoys the same fundamental rights, freedoms, and opportunities."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dara Calleary","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Dara-Calleary.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Dara Calleary) Cuirim f\u00e1ilte roimh an deis labhairt ar an Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026. I begin by making the Government's position very clear. We absolutely recognise that the question of legal recognition for people who wish to identify as non-binary is important. This is not, therefore, a question of whether the concerns raised by this Bill deserve consideration. They absolutely do. The question before us is whether this particular Bill provides an appropriate, workable and sufficiently considered way of addressing these concerns. It is the Government's view that this Bill does not. The Bill is not very basic, to quote Deputy Coppinger's words. It makes very significant changes, not just to the Gender Recognition Act 2015 but also to the Civil Registration Act 2004, the Employment Equality Act 1998, the Equal Status Act 2000 and the Interpretation Act 2005. These are changes with implications that extend well beyond the gender recognition system itself. For that reason, the Government cannot support this Bill as it is drafted. The Government is already committed to examining non-binary recognition and it is absolutely vital to re-emphasise that while opposing this particular Bill, the Government is not opposing the consideration of legal recognition for non-binary people. In response to the review of the Gender Recognition Act, Government Departments and other public bodies were tasked by Government with considering and taking positive steps to improve the position of people who are non-binary. The review of the Act also included a recommendation relating to making legal gender recognition available to people who are non-binary. The National LGBTIQ+ Inclusion Strategy II 2024-2028 contains a commitment to progress that recommendation. As part of that work, the Government is pursuing an impact assessment on legal recognition. This involves a detailed examination across Government Departments and State bodies on how the introduction of a third gender category could be accommodated from both a policy and an operational perspective. That is the appropriate approach. Before making the kind of change with implications across the Statute Book and public administration, we need to understand those implications properly. Legal recognition of a third gender should be progressed on the basis of careful analysis and an implementable framework, rather than legislating first and addressing the consequences afterwards. The Bill goes considerably further than simply recognising a non-binary gender. The Bill is presented as providing for the recognition of a non-binary gender and people who are born intersex but its legal consequences are much broader. Section 2 would insert into the Gender Recognition Act a right for every person resident in the State to change their recorded gender to female, male or non-binary. This is a particularly significant provision because it is drafted without an age qualification. The Government's concern is therefore that the provision will create a universal entitlement, regardless of age, undermining the safeguards that apply to children under the age of 18 under the existing gender recognition framework. Whatever view Members may take on the appropriate arrangements for children, changes of that significance should follow a deliberate consideration of children's circumstances and the appropriate safeguards. This should not arise simply as a consequence of a broadly drafted Bill. I am also particularly concerned about the proposed amendments to the civil registration system. Section 6 addresses the recording of sex in registers relating to births, stillbirths, adoptions and deaths, including provision for an X entry. The General Register Office assessment identifies a fundamental difficulty with this approach. It considers that the proposal would change existing arrangements by enabling the qualified informant registering the event to determine the sex recorded, rather than relying on the present medical determination. The Bill also does not clarify the process by which an existing medical determination of male or female could be amended to X when it is being registered. That is not simply an administrative change. Civil registration records fulfil functions that are quite distinct from the recognition of a person's gender identity. The proposed change could affect the viability of gender data drawn from those registers and currently used by the Central Statistics Office in measuring health and demographic indicators. We therefore need to distinguish carefully between two issues: recognising a person's gender for legal purposes, and recording sex within the State's system of civil registration. This Bill risks bringing those distinct questions together without adequately resolving the consequences. The implications of the Bill also extend across legislation and public services. The Bill would propose to amend the Interpretation Act 2005. Section 5 proposes rules under which words importing the masculine or feminine gender would also import a non-binary gender, together with a corresponding provision concerning references to a non-binary gender in future legislation and statutory instruments. Again, that is not an insignificant or purely technical amendment. So much existing legislation and service delivery and so many Government systems operate on the basis of two gender categories. The introduction of an additional legal category, therefore, requires us to examine carefully how it interacts with existing legislation and with the systems through which public services are delivered. In addition, it is anticipated that significant costs would follow, requiring changes across Government Departments and existing systems. Those operational consequences need to be identified and understood before legislation takes effect, yet section 9 provides that the legislation would commence six months after enactment, or earlier if the Minister for Social Protection so orders. Given the breadth of the proposed changes, the Government does not believe we should create new statutory obligations without first establishing clearly how they would operate across the State. Employment and equality provisions also require proper consideration. The Bill proposes amendments to both the Employment Equality Act 1998 and the Equal Status Act 2000. These would introduce a new \"sexual characteristics ground\" relating to a person being intersex. The objective of ensuring protection from discrimination is important, but amendments to the State's equality framework need to be coherent with the wider body of equality law. They should be examined as part of a considered legislative process, including the practical and legal interaction with existing protections. A legitimate objective does not remove the need to ensure the legislative mechanism used to achieve it is sound. The better course is the work already under way. There is, therefore, an important distinction at the heart of the Government's position. We are not saying that the issue of non-binary recognition should not be considered. We are saying that a change of this breadth requires proper examination before legislation is enacted. We already have a mechanism through which that work is being undertaken. The impact assessment process under the national LGBTIQ+ inclusion strategy is examining how recognition of a third gender category could be accommodated across Departments and State bodies from policy and operational perspectives. That work gives us the opportunity to identify the legislative implications, the effects on civil registration, the implications for children and the safeguards that may be required, the operational consequences for Departments and public bodies, the changes required to State systems, and the associated implementation implications and costs. That is a more responsible foundation on which to make a significant change to our legal framework. In conclusion, I again acknowledge the absolute importance of the issues raised and assure the House that the Government is committed to progressing the legitimate interests of those seeking legal recognition. However, for the reasons I have outlined, the Government is opposing this particular Bill."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett I commend Deputy Coppinger, on bringing this Bill forward, and all the groups and organisations that have been campaigning for legal recognition for intersex and non-binary people. To me, it is a very straightforward and simple issue. Nobody should be denied, dismissed, discriminated against or persecuted because of who they are. To fail to respect people for who they are and to fail to give them legal recognition is not just an issue for the people whose rights are being denied; it is also an issue for the whole of society because it is a slippery slope when you start to deny people their rights for who they are. That is why it is no coincidence that the leading aggressor against LGBTQ+ people is somebody like Donald Trump, who not only lacks respect for LGBTQ+ people, but is making war against everybody. He is making war against women, he is making war against people of colour, he is making war against Palestinians, he is making war against people of Islamic faith; you name it. He is making war against multiple countries. When you concede to monsters like Trump, it is a slippery slope, so it is important to stand up to them. I do not believe for one minute all the excuses that the Government has given for opposing this Bill, about how it is complicated and there is a better way of doing it and so on. If the Government has any legitimate concerns about technical or inadvertent consequences or whatever, they can be dealt with at the next Stage. The Government can bring forward amendments. The truth is that the Government itself, in the 2018 review, recommended legal recognition for non-binary and intersex people, and the Government has done absolutely nothing about it, and has no intention of doing anything about it, because it is leaning into and capitulating to the hate agenda of the far-right, Trump, and so on. That is the reality of what is going on and that is why the Government is opposing the Bill. It is shameful, quite honestly. It is absolutely shameful that the Government is doing it, but not surprising, given it is also leaning into so many of the other hateful aspects of the far-right agenda and the Trump agenda, whether it is in terms of how it deals with immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers, and so on. All of that is particularly shameful given our history. We do not believe the Minister. It is shameful but we intend to continue to fight for the basic rights of people to be respected, recognised and acknowledged for who they are, and for their rights to be vindicated accordingly."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Roderic O'Gorman The Gender Recognition Act 2015 was a significant achievement, making Ireland one of the first countries in the world to provide for legal gender recognition on the basis of self-determination. However, as many LGBTQI organisations have pointed out, that framework does not currently provide for non-binary people and leaves important issues affecting intersex people unresolved. One lesson I have always taken from my engagement with our community is that progress cannot stop with the achievements of the past. The 2015 Act was a good start, but the need remains to address the outstanding recommendations of the 2018 review process, including legal recognition for non-binary people and greater recognition of the experience of intersex people. This Bill is a positive step forward towards that and I thank Deputy Coppinger for bringing it forward today. We should recognise that other jurisdictions have already moved in this direction. The use of an X marker is now an established feature in a number of countries and is recognised within international travel documentation standards. Legal recognition matters in many very practical ways. When a person's identity documents do not accurately reflect who they are, it can create barriers to everyday life, whether that is in accessing services, travelling, applying for employment or engaging with public bodies. Advocacy organisations have consistently highlighted the impact that a lack of recognition can have on well-being, on safety and on participation in society. I want to highlight the experience of intersex people, a group whose voices are too often absent from public debate and whose experiences remain poorly understood. As a Minister, I was conscious of how little public awareness exists regarding intersex people and the challenges they face. Intersex people are not rare. They have always existed in every society and every community, yet our laws, institutions and our public services have absolutely failed to reflect that reality. This has meant that many intersex people continue to experience invisibility, misunderstanding and stigma throughout their lives. This Bill seeks to address some of these gaps. It would allow for the recognition of intersex people within our civil registration system and would provide explicit protection against discrimination on the grounds of sexual characteristics. These are practical, legal changes that would provide greater protection for a community that has been too often overlooked. This is more than a symbolic action. When official systems fail to acknowledge people's experiences, that has real-world consequences. It can affect access to services, interactions with public bodies, healthcare experiences and a person's sense of belonging in a society. Many intersex people continue to face stigma and barriers in discussing their health and personal experiences, even with their own healthcare professionals, and greater recognition can play an important role in challenging that stigma. We should also listen carefully to the concerns raised by intersex people regarding bodily autonomy and informed consent. While this Bill does not address every issue facing the intersex community, organisations representing intersex people have argued that it is an important step towards a society in which people have greater control over how they are recognised and understood by the State. I welcome this legislation. It is important we engage seriously and respectfully with the lived experience of intersex and non-binary people. They deserve to be heard, they deserve dignity and equal treatment and they deserve laws that recognise them as full and valued members of our society."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy I welcome and support this legislation and thank Deputy Coppinger for bringing it forward. This Bill is about human rights for a small percentage of people. It is deeply disappointing - in fact, it is shocking - that the Minister and the Government are opposing this legislation. The Minister used a very poor excuse. I believe it is disingenuous because, as the Minister well knows, if he had difficulties with this Bill he could use the legislative process, pre-legislative scrutiny and the Oireachtas committee system to bring forward any amendments he deems necessary. He chose not to do that and to say we need further examination. The Government has had eight years for further examination since the review in 2018. I believe the Minister's position is, unfortunately and sadly, disingenuous. I remind the Minister that the review in 2018 proposed the introduction of gender recognition for children of any age under the principle of parental consent; that this be an administrative process, with a straightforward revocation process as currently exists for adults; and that voluntary family mediation be made available for those who wish to accept it. The Minister of the day accepted those recommendations. The recommendation with regard to young people aged 16 and 17 was to introduce a simplified process on the basis of self-declaration with parental consent, a straightforward revocation process and with voluntary family mediation available. Various other recommendations in that report were accepted by the then Minister, including a recommendation for a process for Irish citizens born in the Six Counties to be able to access Irish legal gender recognition. That was another recommendation which was accepted by the Minister of the day. The Minister has had six years to examine and investigate this. Unfortunately, it would appear that the Government is bending to the far right. Despite what the Minister might have said in his contribution, there is no indication of when the Minister might bring forward legislation of his own. The Minister should reconsider his position, accept Deputy Coppinger's legislation, and amend it during the legislative process and parliamentary scrutiny."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy David Cullinane I thank Deputy Coppinger for moving this Bill. At its core, this issue is about people. It is about non-binary people who live in our communities, who are part of our families, and who are our friends, colleagues and neighbours. It is about something fairly basic: being recognised for who you are and being treated with respect. For most people dealing with the State, filling in a form or producing an official document is fairly routine. You tick a box and you move on. However, if neither of the boxes in front of you reflects who you are, then something that is straightforward for everybody else becomes another reminder that the system was not designed with you in mind. This can mean having to explain yourself. It can mean having to disclose personal information. It can mean repeatedly being put in a position where somebody else gets to question who you are. Over time, that takes its toll. While this Bill deals with legislation, certificates, registers and legal definitions, we should not lose sight of what sits behind all of that: real people and their experience. These are people who want to get on with their lives in exactly the same way as everybody else, who want to be treated decently and who should not have to fight with the State simply to have their identity recognised. That, in my view, is why this Bill matters. The Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill would allow a person to have their gender legally recognised as non-binary. It would provide for an \"X\" marker alongside \"M\" and \"F\" on a gender recognition certificate. It would make changes to civil registration. It would provide explicit protection against discrimination for intersex people. It would make consequential changes to the way gender is dealt with in legislation. The core intent of the Bill is a simple one. If someone is non-binary, should the State continue to insist they choose either \"male\" or \"female\" for the purposes of legal gender recognition? I do not believe it should and that is why Sinn F\u00e9in will be supporting this Bill. For somebody who is not non-binary, this may sound like a small administrative change but we all know it means much more than that. It means that when you deal with the State, the State acknowledges that you exist as you are. It means that an official document can reflect who you are rather than forcing you into a category which does not. It removes one more situation in which somebody has to explain themselves, justify themselves, or disclose something deeply personal, simply because the system was not designed with them in mind. I believe that really matters. There are young, non-binary people growing up in Ireland today. There are adults who have spent much of their lives feeling there was no space for them in the legal framework of this State that we collectively created. There are parents who simply want their child to be happy, safe and able to live their life without being subjected to hostility or unnecessary barriers. Our politics should be capable of approaching these people and families with empathy. This does not mean we do not examine legalisation carefully; of course we should. There are aspects of this Bill which need to be worked through. If it proceeds, we need to look carefully at how it interacts with the existing rules on gender recognition. We need to maintain the distinction between being non-binary and being intersex because we know they are different things. There will be practical issues around State records and IT systems. There may be issues around international documents and systems. The proposed amendment to the Interpretation Act deserves detailed legal scrutiny because it could have implications across other areas of law. All of these issues are ones that can and should be examined on Committee Stage. We all know that if we want legislation to work, we have an obligation to scrutinise it. The problem is that the Government is not even allowing the Bill to get to Committee Stage. The Minister said earlier that the Government has a different way and that it is committed to change in this area. Where is it? Where is the Government's plan, because a lot of these changes were ones that were recommended? In fact the Government said it would make them when we first had the Gender Recognition Act, and then when we had the review of it, and people are still waiting. It really rings hollow for people when they hear that. If implementation has to be phased, then plan it properly. There are issues that can be worked through. For me, the most important thing is that we start from the right place and that right place is recognition and respect. I also want to say something about people who are born intersex, because being intersex and being non-binary are not the same. Intersex people are born with variations in sex characteristics. Their experiences and healthcare needs can be very different. This Bill would provide recognition for people who are born intersex - who do not identify as either male or female - and that recognition is really important. It is essential, too, that people who are born intersex receive the healthcare they need from birth to adulthood and that a model of care is in place which values the autonomy and dignity of that person, reserving decisions about their sex characteristics, where possible, for them to make as they develop and mature. As we develop policy in this area, we need to listen directly to intersex people. We should not simply talk about them in the Chamber but listen to them, their families and healthcare professionals with expertise in their care and ensure people are given clear information and have a meaningful say in decisions about their health and bodies. However, we need to urgently address another part of this debate. Legal recognition is really important, but so too is healthcare. We have had several debates on this issue in the House. The gender healthcare system in this State is broken beyond repair. A new model of care has been developed, but people who are intersex, non-binary and trans have been badly let down because the system simply does not exist. People are being put on waiting lists that go nowhere. They are waiting years and years. There are no options or pathways for them. As the Sinn F\u00e9in spokesperson on health, this concerns me very greatly. The reality is that intersex and non-binary people in Ireland have been failed by the lack of timely access to healthcare. They are waiting years. As I said, some people have, in effect, been told to put part of their lives on hold while they wait for the public system. We need to think about what that actually means. People may have spent years trying to understand how they feel and struggle to speak about it. People may have had difficult conversations with their families or the people closest to them. They may already be dealing with anxiety or isolation. When they eventually reach out for healthcare and supports, the State and supports are not there and they are faced with more waits. Waiting times can be measured in years, in many cases. It is simply not acceptable. Nobody in the State should have to wait years to simply begin a conversation about their healthcare. As I said, work is under way on a new model of care for gender healthcare. The new model needs to be brought forward, published and properly resourced, and needs to fundamentally improve the experience of the people using the service. There is little value in announcing a new model of care if the patient still cannot get through the door. Several principles should guide the new model. First, it must be person centred. The person seeking healthcare cannot be an afterthought in the design of the service, which is very often the case. Non-binary, intersex and trans people have to be involved. Their experiences of the existing service have to inform what replaces it. We need to know what went wrong, what the barriers are, why people waited so long, why it was the case they felt they had nowhere to go, what supports they now need and what we can make available. Lived experience should sit alongside clinical evidence and professional expertise. We need, of course, all of the specialists providing that care because gender healthcare cannot exist as an isolated service, disconnected from the wider health system. There needs to be primary care involvement. There are obviously specialist needs. People should not have to co-ordinate all of that themselves and navigate through a system only to find that the healthcare supports are not there. A functioning healthcare service should co-ordinate care around the patient. We need greater regional access. We need to build expertise and capacity so that people are not forced into enormous national bottlenecks. We need to know that specialist intervention is available. It was said earlier that, for adults, autonomy matters. Adults are entitled to information. They are entitled to understand the benefits and risks and make informed decisions about their healthcare and identity. I refer to the intent behind the Bill. That principle should not suddenly disappear simply because we are talking about healthcare or legal responsibilities and accessing forms in the same way that any of us do. We have to make sure that recognition of the individual, and accepting people for who they are when they tell us who they are, are central to how we combat these issues. I am very concerned by what I heard from the Minister who opened this debate. Over the past years, I have watched as a lot of promises have been made on reforming healthcare services, including the gender model of care which was promised. We are still waiting, and I suspect will be waiting for a long time before we see any changes and that new model of care. I would wager that it will be a long time - I would say we could measure it in years - before the Government comes back with any plan. The Government is sitting here today and is saying to Deputy Coppinger and those of us on this side of the House to trust it and it will come forward with a plan. I do not believe anybody believes that. I do not believe a single person in the Chamber, including the Minister of State who is sitting here, genuinely believes that the Government is going to do anything at all in this area. That means the Government is letting down a section of our society, albeit a very small section. As Deputy Boyd Barrett said, they are under attack from Trump and others. They are a small cohort of the population and deserve to be treated with respect. I do not believe they are being treated with respect when Ministers are being disingenuous and offer up any and every reason they cannot support a Bill when we know the issues raised can be dealt with on Committee Stage. I have raised some practical issues that I want to see addressed on Committee Stage. Scrutiny of any Bill is important. It is the last refuge of a scoundrel when Ministers come to the House and say they are not supporting a Bill because there are technical problems with it. It is an excuse. Let us call it what it is. It is not factual or based on goodwill, good faith or anything other than that the Government does not want to do anything in this area. That is the reality of the situation as far as I can see it. We have an opportunity, through Deputy Coppinger's Bill, to address this issue and we should do so. People who are non-binary have waited a long time for the Government to act. The Minister of State now needs to set out in his closing remarks exactly what the Government is going to do. Ministers cannot come to the House and say they will oppose a Bill and set out all of the reasons for that, and then not set out a plan of their own. I have not heard such a plan from the Minister of State and I want to hear it. For all of the reasons I have given, Sinn F\u00e9in will support the Bill as proposed by Deputy Coppinger."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice This is an important debate. I thank Deputy Coppinger for bringing the Bill forward and allowing us to have this debate. It is probably the first time there has been a substantial debate in the Oireachtas around intersex, in particular, and non-binary issues in this way. That is historic and important and I want to congratulate the Deputy for all of the work she has done on this. I was sorry to miss the Minister's opening statement. The health committee is currently sitting. I was chairing it and wanted to step out to take part in this debate. I understand the Government will oppose the Bill, which is deeply disappointing. The Social Democrats support the intention of the Bill, and the need to recognise non-binary people and advance LGBTQI rights. It is simple and straightforward and the Government should be doing that. It would cost the State absolutely nothing, but the Government, as it has done time and again, refuses to address the issue. There has been a failure on the part of successive Governments to advance any rights in terms of intersex and non-binary people in the State. It is shocking, disappointing and deeply frustrating. I want to speak about the non-binary provisions in the Bill. Daire Dempsey, the executive director of TENI, stated that with the passage of the ground breaking Gender Recognition Act 2015, Ireland told trans men and women that the State believes them to be who they are. They went on to say that unfortunately, this is not extended to non-binary people who are not recognised in Irish law or Irish passports or any other document. When your documents do not match who you are, it is alienating, distressing and can be deeply unsafe. I hope the Minister of State hears that. Irish citizens have said that the failure of the State to recognise them is deeply distressing and can be unsafe for them. These are not new recommendations. Time and again, there have been recommendations to advance changes in the law because we know non-binary people are not recognised. It is very difficult for young people to get recognition under the Gender Recognition Act. Irish citizens in the North are not recognised under the Act. A review in 2018 made a series of recommendations, namely to legalise non-binary recognition, a cross-governmental review on the proposed legislative amendments and an impact assessment and for public bodies to take positive steps to improve the position of non-binary people. In 2019, the then Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection published a response to the proposed changes and said that a deeper level of impact assessment was needed. Some eight years later, the Minister has said the same thing, namely that we still need to do an impact assessment, to do more work and to look at this. Why does it take so long for the Government to do anything in this area? Why does it take until eight years after recommendations are made for it to make progress on what are simple, administrative changes that would recognise people in law? These are not fundamental reforms that are going to cost money but a simple change, yet we have seen no progress. This is despite these recommendations being included in the first national LGBTI strategy in 2019, the Department of Social Protection's statement of strategy for 2023 and so on. There has been recommendation after recommendation but a failure to implement that changes required to recognise non-binary people in the law. It is being done in other countries. Austria, Germany, Iceland and Malta provide for non-binary gender recognition and we should do it too. If other European countries are moving ahead with X markers on identity documents, then that is the approach we should take. The European courts have also delivered a series of judgments that recognise and reinforce the rights of trans and non-binary people, including in the area of gender recognition. In 2024, there was the Mirin case in which the court ruled name and gender marker changes made in one EU country must be automatically recognised by other EU states, meaning there is an obligation on the State to do that. There were a series of other cases, including the Mousse case, where the court recognised non-binary people\u2019s existence in the EU for the first time. In this case, the court GDPR provides protections for trans and non-binary people and under EU law everybody is protected against identity discrimination, including non-binary people. Ireland\u2019s inaction on non-binary recognition is therefore going against these trends at the EU level and ignores the recognition within EU law, so we need to see progress. There is a trend internationally and we should make progress on the recognition of non-binary people. It is similar with the intersex recommendations. Sorcha N\u00ed Fhaol\u00e1in of Intersex Ireland said: Despite there being at least as many intersex people as there are people with red hair, most people including our GPs know very little about us. Recognition is an important part of addressing issues intersex people face as it is a step toward reducing stigma that keeps intersex people from being able to talk about our lives and our health with friends, family and even our doctors. It is really important we bring the voices of intersex and trans people into the debate because there is an underrepresentation of people from minority communities in the Oireachtas. Again, there is a failure to implement recommendations. The national LGBTI strategy had two intersex recommendations, neither of which has been progressed. In my previous role in LGBT Ireland, we produced a shadow report on Ireland\u2019s LGBTI strategy and when we were doing that report we went through each of the actions in it and graded the Government on those from A to F. On all the trans and intersex actions, the Government got an F. It was willing to progress some of the other actions concerning lesbian, gay and bisexual issues but on the trans and intersex actions there was an absolute failure by the Government to even do the simple scoping exercise promised in terms of intersex people and data collection. That was in 2019 and there was an absolute failure to progress them. We have had years of failure and today is another disappointing step in the sad record of this Government and the previous one. There are people watching from the Gallery and from home. I want to let them know we will keep fighting for them even if the Government opposes it. We will keep advancing LGBT rights and people do not need the Minister\u2019s approval to be who they are. We see you, you are loved, you are valued and you are respected. Let us keep fighting."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney I thank Deputy Coppinger and her team for bringing forward this crucial legislation. I also thank all the organisations that fight so hard for the rights of the LGBTQI+ community and specifically today those who are fighting for the rights of non-binary and intersex people because it is a hard graft when you are part of a minority but are a minority within that minority and when that minority is more and more demonised by the day. The people in this minority are weaponised by political forces across our globe who are promoting a fascistic and gender-conservative world-view and using it as a wedge to advance their own right-wing views. That is exactly what is happening here. I listened to the Minister, Deputy Calleary, talk about the reasons this legislation will be opposed by the Government and there is nothing in the reasons. He spoke about implications extending well beyond the gender recognition system itself but that is the whole point. Legal gender recognition means people in these categories will no longer face the discrimination they currently experience. It means they will not have to have different experiences from the Minister of State and I when they are being asked for identification and filling in forms. I am irritated there are so many forms that will not accept the fada in my name. I can only imagine how much harder it is when every single time someone has to try to register, express an interest and record their presence in the world they are faced with this binary world-view which forces itself upon them again and again. The Gender Recognition Act delivered a milestone for this community. I worked in the rights and equality space at the time and remember my colleagues across Europe heralding Ireland as being so progressive on this and talking to me about the implications and how they could advance those things within their countries. Let us remember that when the 2015 Act was passed, the sky did not fall in. There were none of the disasters predicted from certain corners of our society. Not only that, there were no floodgates or any of the issues there was scaremongering about ahead of that Act being introduced. However, we have not only stalled since then as a society but gone backwards because so many other jurisdictions have gone ahead and recognised a third gender to facilitate this micro-marginalised, discriminated-against community. It was recommended, as many speakers have said, as part of the review and is operational and fully functioning in multiple jurisdictions. All the objections from the Government are about putting this on the long finger and none are things that cannot be dealt with at a later stage. I will speak briefly to the concept of the binary view of gender because not only is our law and policy lagging behind in this space but so too are we as politicians if we do not put forward a more comprehensive and progressive non-binary view of gender. Our younger generations are way ahead of us here and understand this in a way that means we will be there eventually and will ultimately live in a society that does not see women and men as completely binary genders. I will welcome and am so excited about the day when that happens but we have the opportunity as political leaders not only to push for it in our law and policy \u2013 and we should remember this is just a first step \u2013 but also to be political leaders for our constituents and our communities and to help others understand the misinformation flowing around this topic is vast and that we need to cut through it and help people understand this is a rights issue. As Deputy Rice said, this costs the Government nothing but right now it daily costs this community their respect, their dignity and their rights."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Wall","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Mark-Wall.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Wall I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Labour Party about this especially important Bill. I thank Deputy Coppinger for bringing it forward and welcome our visitors to the Public Gallery. The Labour Party is immensely proud of its track record of supporting the LGBTQI+ community, including those who are non-binary and people who are intersex. The Labour Party legislated for gender recognition in government back in 2015. On 16 July, as part of statements on Pride, I outlined further legislation my party has brought forward, including the promise to hold a referendum on marriage equality, which as well know passed by a landslide. Many of the civil rights passed in this House were because of the Labour Party and it is something we are very proud to say. At the end of 2025, the Labour Party used its Private Members\u2019 time to move a motion on transgender healthcare that called for a new model of trans healthcare that was not just designed for the community, but for the members of the trans community and their families. That day, as on many other days, I and my Labour Party colleagues called for safe and effective healthcare services that are patient-informed. Many trans, non-binary and intersex people simply do not feel listened to by government and they simply do not exist in legal and administrative systems. During the general election the Labour Party manifesto contained a commitment to address these very issues. It is something we are deeply committed to and which we will continue to bring forward and address. In reviewing this Bill, I spoke with friends and colleagues from the intersex community about the proposals it contains. They are incredibly happy to see their concerns and important issues are being debated in this House. Such aims will make a massive difference to their lives, which are currently exceedingly difficult day in and day out for them and their families. I know that from the conversations I have had with them, the issues that have been raised with me and the many other emails and messages I have received about this Bill in advance of today. That is why it is so important to have this debate in their Parliament to start recognising the needs and issues of these communities in our State. That is why we support the fundamental aims of this Bill to ensure that non-binary and intersex people can live their lives with dignity. However, as has previously been said by other contributors, this is not perfect legislation and we believe it will require significant changes via amendments if it progresses beyond Second Stage, which we sincerely hope it does. The Bill conflates intersex characteristics that concern innate physical sex characteristics with non-binary identity that concerns gender identity. We believe it would be more appropriate to address these issues through separate legislative provisions. As drafted, the Bill uses a single marker \"X\" for both groups, with different meanings on different documents. An X on a death certificate would signify a non-binary or intersex person, whereas on a birth certificate it would signify an intersex person. This has the potential to be problematic and to cause confusion. Intersex and non-binary people need protection and recognition and we must ensure that we do not inadvertently legislate to create more legal uncertainty. The Bill can also be interpreted to provide absolute discretion for a parent on whether or not to assign gender at birth. We believe there is a need for medical criteria here, and that there are also medical privacy concerns. As other contributors have said, let us have the debate on Committee Stage. Let us make sure that we have the debate and that we get it right. Non-binary and intersex people have waited long enough for the law to catch up with their lives. It is time for us to act. I repeat my party's steadfast commitment to advancing the rights of those who identify as non-binary and people who are intersex. They have waited too long for this debate. As I said previously in the House, we must stand with them today and every day. I look forward to working constructively with Deputy Coppinger on this very important Bill, and with all those who stand up for the marginalised in this House every single day."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Marie Sherlock","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Marie-Sherlock.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Marie Sherlock I thank Deputy Coppinger for bringing forward this Bill. I am really disappointed in the Government's response and that it is not facilitating the passage of the Bill to Committee Stage. The Government is either in favour of the principle of recognising non-binary and intersex persons or it is not. It is a well-established principle in this House that even if there are difficulties with the technical aspects of a particular Bill, if the Government is in favour of the principle, it facilitates its passage to Committee Stage. It is really disappointing and indeed disingenuous of the Government to say that it is going to vote down the Bill. We need to be very clear on the message we want to send out today to the non-binary and intersex people in our communities and across the country. We want them to know that we stand with them and we support them in seeking the recognition that they are seeking and that they deserve. They are our family members, our neighbours and our friends. Their existence is not up for debate, even if many across the world are now trying to roll back the clock. It is critically important that we send that message out today to those who want to turn us back to the dark ages. We are not going back. Non-binary and intersex people deserve to watch a debate today in our national Parliament with the sensitivity and compassion that it demands. We in the Labour Party fundamentally believe in their right to live a life with dignity and to be protected from discrimination and stigma. They have a right to the proper medical assistance and support if they need it. Let us be in no doubt as to the challenges today for those who live as non-binary or intersex persons in terms of their health issues, stigma and safety issues. That is the position from which I believe we need to start this debate. We must remember we are talking about a very small number of vulnerable people, often invisible in many communities, but they are there and we need to start talking about them. As my colleague Deputy Wall said, we in the Labour Party are extremely proud of our record for LGBTQ+I people in this country; starting with the decriminalisation of homosexuality; the disregard for those with criminal convictions for homosexuality; same-sex marriage; the marriage equality referendum, and of course the groundbreaking Gender Recognition Act in 2015. I am not convinced such a Bill would go through these Houses if it were brought forward now, 11 years later. It is a testament to the commitment of the Labour Party in government at that time, and to the many groups working in that space, to get that Bill over the line. It is long past time that we had recognition for non-binary persons. It is eight years since the review of the 2015 Act took place when was a clear and unambiguous recommendation for non-binary recognition. We have had lots of welcome references to recognition for non-binary persons in the first and second national LGBTI inclusion strategies, but there has been no progress. Talk is cheap. The reality is the Government will be judged on the basis of its actions. I must be honest on looking at the detail of the Bill itself, there is a lot of work to be done to make sure the Bill could become operable and deliver for non-binary and intersex persons. I have concerns that there is a conflation of sex and gender in how the Bill is drafted. The terms \"non-binary\" and \"intersex\" are in some ways being used interchangeably when they are very much not. They are all technical details. The principle here is whether or not we believe in recognition. It is on the Government that it is voting down this Bill today. I thank Deputy Coppinger for lighting a fire under this issue because it has been there for a number of years, and we need to drive on with it. It would be remiss of me not to use this opportunity to raise the very real health issues for those who are trans, intersex and non-binary. Not every non-binary person will require medical support but some do and the reality is that we have a disgraceful and outrageous situation in this country where the National Gender Service has a waiting list of 2,500 people, some of whom have been waiting four and a half years. We had a situation last year where the waiting list was closed and it was only reopened due to ministerial intervention. The reality is that we have a failed system of care. As my colleague Deputy Wall said, last December we brought forward an important motion in the House calling for a new model of care. I am aware that work is ongoing with regard to the new model of care but it is disappointing that two of the groups that were part of designing the new model of care have walked away. We need to support the other groups that are within the framework. The reality is that we need to start delivering for trans, non-binary and intersex people in this country. We need to have a new model of care on the basis of dignity, respect and trust. It is wrong that people have to travel abroad for care. We need to start providing for those persons in our communities in our State. My last appeal to the Minister of State is to let us have the debate on Committee Stage on the details of Deputy Coppinger's Bill. Let us give the Bill a chance and work out the technical details. For it to fail at the first hurdle is frankly disgraceful and unacceptable."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn Aont\u00fa believes in a compassionate pluralist Republic. All citizens are equal and valued no matter what their identity, ethnicity, religion or orientation. Everyone should be treated on the basis of their own individual character. Gender dysphoria is real and is not easy for anyone. We need to treat all our citizens with respect and decency but it is also really important that we have a society based on science and evidence. Gender ideology as represented in the Bill from the far left today is anti-science and anti-evidence. Proponents of this Bill think that they are fighting on the last front of human rights but in reality they are doing enormous damage to children and women. The Tavistock crisis highlighted the damage that this type of gender ideology does to children. Incredibly, Solidarity campaigned against the findings of Dr. Hilary Cass's report. Solidarity seemingly knows more that this doctor and the party continues to support the giving of puberty-blocking chemicals to children despite the massive health concerns that exist. Some 1,000 families are currently suing the Tavistock Clinic because their children were rushed into irreversible physical and psychological transitions without adequate assessment or mental health support. Health services across the world are reversing from this type of gender ideology at the moment. All major sporting organisations are reversing from this damaging gender ideology as well. The idea of putting men competing in women's sport is wrong. Women's sport has come so far in recent years, yet at this time it seems that this ideology thinks it is logical to put men competing in women's sport. Incredibly, Solidarity also believes that male sex offenders can be put into women's prisons. This is not a theoretical issue. Barbie Kardashian threatened to torture, rape and murder his mother. When he was put into a women's prison, he threatened to rape female prison guards and female inmates. Only in a world where an intellectual fashion such as this is more important than science, is it okay to put a male sex offender into a women's prison. This is another proof that the Gender Recognition Act is extremely damaging legislation. Instead of repealing this law, the Bill goes further in trying to create a third gender. Why stop at three? If we are going to ignore the sex chromosomes in every cell of every human being, surely the choice should be unlimited. The reality is that people oppose this ideology too. In 2016, Solidarity received 42,000 votes. In 2024, that figure collapsed to 13,000. Solidarity is falling into the same trap as so many left-wing parties across the world; it is ignoring the bread-and-butter issues facing the people it is meant to serve and getting completely distracted by these intellectual fashions."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruth Coppinger Thanks for the advice"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn By taking these anti-science positions, we are doing the most damage to the most vulnerable. The question is whether the Government will follow its lead."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty This is not a debate on the intricacies of what defines trans. I support the principles of the Bill. I am paired with Deputy James Lawless so I will not be voting today but were I voting on Second Stage, I would vote in favour of the Bill. I want to put this on the record. It is important that no intersex infant is forced by bureaucracy or parental pressure into rigid binary assignment at birth. Equally, our laws have ignored the lived realities of non-binary people, who deserve full legal recognition. I support both these aims. As my Labour Party colleagues have mentioned, as legislators we have a duty to ensure that our laws are structurally sound, and what they are saying is that we will possibly have to debate this on Committee Stage. The proposal in the Bill to use a single catch-all X marker inadvertently conflates two entirely different things. These are the physical biological sex characteristics identified at birth or puberty and the definition of a legal transition, which includes subjective gender identity. Medical data shows that fewer than 3% of intersex variations are visible at birth and a lot are discovered much later, during puberty or adulthood. All intersex people have a right to be identified as intersex at any stage. The Bill uses a single marker to address both a birth trait and an adult's self-determined identity, which I also respect. However, a newborn infant cannot possess a non-binary identity and forcing this identity to retroactively replace an objective biological marker at birth would create legal contradictions. The Gender Recognition Act needs to be reformed and updated. A person transitioning is not the same as a person who has a non-binary gender identity. These issues need to be discussed more and there are various international views on this. I support the Bill passing Second Stage and I urge the Government to support it. We need amendments to be discussed. We should create a specific biological marker at birth, such as an \"I\" marker for intersex infants and, later, adults, to accurately reflect biological variations and we should also have distinct and separate identification for non-binary adults who wish to legally declare their identity."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins From all I can gather, the Government has made a decision to oppose the Bill today, which I fully support. Before I come to the Bill itself, I have to say it is becoming almost impossible to take People Before Profit seriously. Recently I saw one of its social media posts, which spoke about going from the streets of Paris to the streets of Dublin. At a time when the world has watched scenes of disorder, chaos and intimidation on the streets of Paris, and not the peaceful protests we do here, I find this message absolutely outrageous. Ordinary families want safe communities and small business owners want to be able to open their doors without fear. Yet here we are with politicians seeming to glorify street unrest. If this is the kind of politics they want to import into Ireland, they are completely out of touch with ordinary, decent people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruth Coppinger Like the fuel protests."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins Peaceful protests all of the time. When we turn to the Bill, we see even more of the same ideological madness. The Bill asks the Irish people to set aside basic common sense and basic biological reality. It asks us to pretend that something understood by humanity since the beginning of time is now somehow up for debate. A child is not born non-binary; a child is born male or female. A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl. This is not an opinion, an ideology or a political slogan; it is a biological fact. What worries many parents is that activists are increasingly trying to drag children into debates that children should never be burdened with. Children should be allowed to be children. They should be allowed to grow up, develop naturally and enjoy their childhood without adults imposing confusion or ideological theories on them. When families across Ireland are struggling with the cost of living, when housing remains out of reach for many young people, and when farmers, fishermen and small businesses are fighting to survive, this is what People Before Profit has chosen to spend its time on. Instead of dealing with the real problems facing real people, it is pushing an agenda that most ordinary citizens neither asked for nor understand. Frankly, the vast majority of people listening to this debate will be asking themselves the simple question as to whether these people have completely lost the run of themselves."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ken O'Flynn People are struggling at the fuel pump and at the supermarket till. We have 17,885 people in emergency accommodation, 5,830 of whom are children. We have 1 million people on hospital waiting lists. However, the left has brought this Bill before the House. It is not concerned about a family living in a hotel room or a pensioner on a trolley but about the X on a birth certificate. I truly believe that any adult can live the life they want to choose and I will defend this and die defending it for people. People can do what they like once they are over the age of 18. I do not give a damn what they do so long as they are not hurting anyone else and I believe most people in the country feel the same way. A birth certificate records facts. It records when and where people were born and what sex they are. The Bill before the House seeks to stop this. The Deputy admits there are no exact figures for non-binary people in Ireland. According to a clinical definition of intersex, it is one birth in about 5,500, or ten babies each year in this country. This means there are ten families who are affected and who need support and the best medical advice and doctors available to them. What I truly believe they do not need is another box to tick on a form. I fail to understand the Bill's logic and ideology. The Bill is about self-identification but allows somebody else to put an X on a newborn's record. This mark will follow the child for the rest of their medical history. It will follow them into school, hospital, the Passport Office and, eventually, to their death certificate. We do not put a mark on a birth certificate when a child is born with a cleft palate or a physical deformity so why are we putting a mark on a birth certificate that will follow someone? We all know that our medical history is very important to all of us. I find the Bill defective. It is poorly put together. I have great admiration for any parliamentarian who brings a Bill to the House because it is not easy to do and I appreciate the work that goes into it. However, I would say to those people in this country who feel they are being shouted down for speaking truths and facts that feelings are real and facts are also real but when the two collide, the law must always stand on the side of facts. This is why we will vote against the Bill."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport (Deputy Charlie McConalogue) I acknowledge the importance of the issues raised during the debate and the legitimate interests of people seeking legal recognition. The Government recognises that legal recognition for non-binary people is a significant issue that deserves careful and serious consideration. We also recognise the importance of ensuring that people born intersex are properly protected from discrimination. The question before us, however, is not whether these objectives are worthy because they are; the question is whether the Bill provides a clear, workable and sufficiently considered framework for achieving them. The Government's position is that it does not. The Bill would make substantial changes to several major legislative frameworks, including the Gender Recognition Act 2015, the Civil Registration Act 2004, the Interpretation Act 2005, the Employment Equality Act 1998 and the Equal Status Act 2000. Its consequences would, therefore, extend well beyond the recognition of a non-binary gender. Serious and obvious unresolved issues remain. Section 2 appears to create a right for every person resident in the State to change their recorded gender to female, male or non-binary without an age qualification. This raises fundamental questions about the safeguards that currently apply to children under the age of 18. Changes of this significance should result from deliberate consideration of children's circumstances and the protections that may be required rather than arising unintentionally from broadly drafted legislation. The proposed changes to civil registration are also far-reaching. The provisions relating to births, stillbirths, adoptions and deaths would alter how sex may be recorded, including through the introduction of an X entry. This risks conflating two separate matters: the legal recognition of a person\u2019s gender identity and the recording of sex within the State\u2019s civil registration system. There are also unresolved questions concerning the Bill\u2019s interaction with existing legislation, public service delivery and Government systems, including important health, demographic and statistical functions. Any changes must, therefore, be assessed carefully, including their potential implications. Significant operational work and expenditure would be required across Departments and State bodies. Yet the Bill provides for commencement six months after enactment, or earlier by ministerial order, without first establishing how these changes could be implemented consistently across the State. The proposed equality protections must likewise be coherent within the wider body of equality law. The objective of protecting intersex people from discrimination is important but a legitimate objective does not remove the need for a sound and effective legal or legislative mechanism. These are not minor technical details that can responsibly be resolved after enactment. The better course is to complete the impact assessment work already under way under the National LGBTIQ+ Inclusion Strategy II 2024-2028. That process can identify the legislative, administrative, financial and operational implications and provide the evidence required to develop an appropriate and implementable framework. The Government is not closing the door on legal recognition. It is insisting that any change of this importance must be carefully designed, evidence-based and capable of working in practice. For those reasons, while respecting the intention behind the Bill and the many very genuine and substantial contributions made during the debate today, and particularly respecting the people whose interests it seeks to advance, the Government cannot support the Non-binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026 as drafted."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Darren O'Rourke) Now to conclude the debate, I call an Teachta Coppinger."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruth Coppinger","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","memberCode":"Ruth-Coppinger.D.2014-05-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruth Coppinger I thank the TDs who committed to support the Bill and for speaking today. I again commend the many groups represented here. I am very sorry they have had to come here today and to listen to what the Government has just said. It is going to oppose a Bill which fits in with commitments that it has given itself in the past but it is proposing absolutely no alternative, no roadmap, no pathway and no nothing. That is really shocking. It is horrific for people to have had to sit and listen to the last ten to 15 minutes as well. I will just take up some of the issues the Minister raised. First, he spoke about the key reasons for opposing the Bill, and said that no age is indicated in terms of transitioning to X in the gender recognition certificate. The Minister knows the Government could propose an age on the next Stage. He should cop on. If the Minister has a proposal for an age, he can put it forward on the next Stage, so that is absolutely no excuse. Second, the Minister said we need a very detailed examination of how this proposed legislation would interact with the State and with other legislation the State has enacted. Obviously, when any Bill comes along, it is going to interact and need an examination. That does not prevent the Government from allowing the Bill to progress. The Government has been examining this since 2018. That is the reality of it. What has the Department been doing for the past seven to eight years that it has not got a handle on that? I believe that just as other people said, the sky would not fall in if Departments had to facilitate M, F or Other in recognising people who they interact with, for example. I do not see any big fallout or interaction from that. In terms of birth certificates, the Minister said a parent could register their child as a different sex from what was medically determined. Now, I am not sure why parents would choose to do that, to be honest. I do not see that arising very much at all. To be honest, we live in such a binary world that it is very unlikely. The Minister knows that the issue here is that we currently have a situation where medical surgery is being done on babies. It was interesting to hear about the dangers to children. The only surgery happening on children in this country is what is being done to intersex babies or children who do not fit the male and female binary in hospitals. Neither the Minister nor the Minister of State even referred to that, by the way, in their speeches. This proposal is to facilitate and recognise intersex people. Some people in the Labour Party and so on have asked why we conflated the two things. The reason is that when we were looking at non-binary recognition, we felt it was important to recognise intersex people. The only way this can be done is by also allowing for that to be done in birth certs. Mainly, however, it is to give parents the space so that they are not forced down the horrific types of surgery that have been done on children in the past. This legislation is also about recognising anyone outside the gender binary in legislation. We would not even be talking about intersex people today if I had not put that into the Bill. This is the first time, probably, that there has been any discussion in the D\u00e1il of intersex persons and the fact that they exist. Now, it would be laughable, if it was not actually serious, to listen to Aont\u00fa talking about science. Its Deputies are the ones who are being unscientific. It is a scientific reality that not all children are born with male or female characteristics. That is just a scientific reality. The Government agrees with that. That is why it signed up to the Council of Ministers' statement on equal rights for intersex persons. The Government does not disagree with that but it is just not going to do anything about it, it would seem. Regarding some of the other stuff that was said, it was like transphobe bingo from Aont\u00fa there. Misogyny, transphobia and racism are key characteristics of that party. I certainly am not going to take any lecture from members of Aont\u00fa about what would happen. First of all, the way they were talking about rape was very triggering for a lot of people and they really should be a lot more careful. I am not going to take any lessons about dangers to women. Women are mainly in danger from men, and it is usually men they know. It is sometimes councillors they know as well, which has, I know, arisen with Aont\u00fa. Misogyny and transphobia go hand in hand, so I am not going to spend any longer on it. In terms of Independent Ireland asking why we are bringing this Bill forward with all the problems in the world, we can do two things at the one time. It is very possible. We can actually stand for recognition and human rights and care about people\u2019s economic well-being as well. When I introduced the first repeal Bill in this D\u00e1il, which was initially obviously voted down, except by a tiny handful of Members, I was also fighting on the issue of the housing crisis. The two things can actually go hand in hand. In terms of some of the nonsense that we heard, I did state a figure. I said the UN estimates that 1.7% of people in the world are intersex. That is 1 in 500. It is not 1 in 10,000, as was stated. What I said was there are no figures for people identifying as non-binary in the same way. In the last few minutes, I want to talk about some of the countries that have moved forward. Starting with non-binary recognition, these countries include Denmark, Germany, Iceland, Malta, the Netherlands, Canada, Costa Rica, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Pakistan, Nepal, India and Bangladesh. In the US, 22 states have non-binary recognition, even under Trump and his fascistic regime. There is intersex recognition in a number of countries as well, and about nine countries have banned so-called corrective surgeries on babies, which is basically a genital mutilation that is being done. It is being done in Ireland. I would like to get figures from the Minister on how often it has been done in this country. I suppose we really have to listen to the testimonials. Numerous people have contacted us in support of this Bill since it was launched. I will read few of the messages communicated to us. One person stated: I find getting healthcare, going to the dentist, really participating in society on a day-to-day basis difficult without recognition ... things as simple as not having options besides 'mr ms mrs' in being addressed ... to feeling safe to inform healthcare professionals of my gender identity because there's no legal basis for them ... I avoided going to get my first cervical check for over 5 years. Another stated: ... we don't exist when it comes to trans healthcare and often doesn't ever mention [being] queer to any doctor for fear of stigma. I've had even the most progressive clinics asking for pronouns and then ignoring ... I am afraid of being out at work, so my social transition is limited ... The most important thing is there is no access to trans healthcare, unless one travels and has money. The latter point is not dealt with in this Bill, which I absolutely acknowledge. This was about legal recognition first but those are huge issues as well. Another person stated: As an intersex woman, I've spent much of my life living in a society that had no language for people like me. This Bill says that our lives deserve legal recognition too. It won't fix everything, but it is a step towards an Ireland where intersex people no longer have to argue that we exist. I genuinely believe that much of the physical, psychological and sexual abuse I experienced from childhood into adulthood was made possible by a society [and State not recognising us] Ireland was one of 46 countries that signed up to intersex equal rights recognition last October but it has not actually done anything to bring it about. I do not believe any of the excuses that the Minister of State gave hold any water. On the great examination that the Department is doing, I will just refer to what is stated by the bodies that deal most with trans and intersex people. TENI, as others have mentioned, has referred to the progress that has been stalled for a decade. There is the matter of the cross-departmental review. In 2019, the then Minister for employment and social protection published a response to the call for proposals for change. No substantial progress has been made to implement the recommendations in the 2018 review. For how long are trans, non-binary and intersex people going to have to wait for the Government to do a single thing? I urge people to campaign because the Establishment has never reacted unless brought under significant pressure. It is a really horrific ask of people who belong to such an oppressed minority to come out and have to campaign like this. The Government should just do it. The Minister of State heard the crap we had to listen to. It is not fair to ask people to take things on themselves when the Government should be doing it."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Acting Chairman (Deputy Darren O'Rourke) In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time this evening."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 11.43 a.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar mhe\u00e1n lae."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Sitting suspended at 11.43 a.m. and resumed at 12 noon."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026: Second Stage [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":120,"speakerCount":14},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" A Deputy","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel Grealish","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Before we proceed, I wish to remind Members of the standards expected in the Chamber. This House must be able to debate legislation and reach decisions. The Opposition has every right to challenge, object and oppose. Equally, every Member has the right to be heard without interruption. However strongly we disagree, we must respect one another\u2019s right to speak. That applies equally to both sides of this House. Members must make their case through the strength of their arguments within the time allocated, not through shouting, displaying placards or intimidating Members. Our constituents are best served by effective debate and respectful conduct. I expect both from every Member."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran In fairness, this is the second or third time since I came into the House that the Ceann Comhairle has said that and no one has been punished."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Please, Deputy Moran-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran People should be punished for breaking the rules, not stand up and make lectures."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am on my feet, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"R\u00e9ada Cronin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"R\u00e9ada-Cronin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy R\u00e9ada Cronin I agree. I think Miche\u00e1l Martin should be punished."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Excuse me. I have just made a statement that is relevant to every Member of the House. I mentioned \"every Member\". I ask the Deputy to respect what I said and respect the direction of the Chair-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kevin Boxer Moran","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Kevin-Boxer-Moran.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran I hope Members respect the Ceann Comhairle."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle -----if we are to be effective in carrying out the business. I call Deputy Mary Lou McDonald."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald T\u00e1 meas m\u00f3r ag muintir na h\u00c9ireann ar \u00e1r neodracht. N\u00ed f\u00e9idir le Fianna F\u00e1il n\u00f3 Fine Gael f\u00e1il r\u00e9idh leis an nglas triarach gan cead na ndaoine. Caithfear an cheist seo a chur faoi bhr\u00e1id an phobail i reifreann. Today marks a very significant day for Ireland and our future. Today, the Government is bringing forward legislation to dismantle the triple lock. The consequences of the legislation, if passed, cannot be underestimated. The Government is tearing away current vital safeguards on the deployment of Irish troops overseas. It is clearing the way for this Government and future governments to send Irish troops into military operations without a UN mandate. Scrapping the triple lock opens the door to Ireland being dragged into EU military structures, dangerous alliances and further alignment with NATO. None of this is supported by the Irish people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Yesterday, I put it to the Taoiseach that the Government\u2019s plan to abolish the triple lock and dismantle neutrality piece by piece flies in the face of our country\u2019s values of peace and peacekeeping, diplomacy, respect for international law and, crucially, independent Irish foreign policy, all of the things that allow Ireland to speak powerfully against war and for justice and human rights. The Taoiseach\u2019s response was to reach for theatrics and nonsense. It was a churlish response beneath the gravity and seriousness of this issue. The Taoiseach has no mandate from the Irish people to dismantle our neutrality. He does not have the political or moral authority to overturn assurances previously given to the Irish people, and nor do his colleagues in Fine Gael or in Michael Lowry's group for that matter. He cannot simply airbrush commitments made by Fianna F\u00e1il Governments to the Irish people on neutrality. Remember that the Irish people only passed the Nice and Lisbon treaties on the back of explicit guarantees that Irish neutrality would be protected. The triple lock was at the heart of that or, as the Taoiseach once put it, \"at the core of our neutrality\". I clearly remember Fianna F\u00e1il Ministers and, indeed, a Fianna F\u00e1il Taoiseach giving those commitments to the public, but now a Fianna F\u00e1il Taoiseach and a Fianna F\u00e1il-led Government seek to walk away from those commitments. The Taoiseach\u2019s approach is to downplay, dismiss and trivialise his shameful manoeuvring. The dishonesty is staggering. This is not a technical issue. It is not a minor matter. We are talking about an enormous shift in foreign policy, one with far-reaching consequences for generations to come, yet debate is shut down, speaking time is guillotined and scrutiny is avoided. Above all else, the Government wants to rob the Irish people of their rightful place as custodians of our neutrality. How disgraceful. It is not for the Taoiseach, Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael or the Government to decide the future of Irish neutrality. That is for the people to decide. They have a democratic duty to seek the people\u2019s permission. I put it to the Taoiseach again: ask this question in a referendum. Let the people of Ireland call this. Let the people vote on this because anything else is a profound betrayal by the Government."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Well said."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Aonta\u00edm leis an Teachta go bhfuil meas m\u00f3r ag muintir na h\u00c9ireann ar \u00e1r bpolasa\u00ed a bhaineann le neodracht na t\u00edre. T\u00e1 an Rialtas taobh thiar den pholasa\u00ed sin. N\u00edl s\u00e9 ar intinn ag an Rialtas in aon chor athr\u00fa a dh\u00e9anamh ar neodracht na t\u00edre. The Deputy\u2019s presentation of this issue is completely disingenuous and dishonest. Our reform of the triple lock is fundamentally about keeping alive the Irish tradition of peacekeeping and, indeed, keeping alive our capacity to have an independent foreign policy. In no way does it undermine Irish military neutrality. The Deputy, on the other hand, is essentially willing to abandon our proud tradition of peacekeeping. We are not. The only motivation here is to retain the capacity to participate in peacekeeping. The Deputy wants Russia, the United States and China to have the power of veto over whether Ireland ever again in the future participates in a peacekeeping mission. That is the essential difference. She has created false narrative after false narrative but the essential difference here is how we develop a capacity. We need to be honest with our military about this as well, including with soldiers and their families."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Yes."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy We do."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Let us not pretend that everything will be rosy in the garden if we just do not go through with reform of our legislation. It will not be. We know that because the ending of the UNIFIL mission is happening at the insistence of the United States to take away the Security Council's support for the work that Irish peacekeepers, and many other peacekeepers working with us, have been doing for many years in Lebanon, endeavouring to keep the peace there. I find it extraordinary, given Russia\u2019s invasion of Ukraine. Remember that Russia is on the Security Council. We have a member of the Security Council wilfully violating the UN Charter, committing terrible war crimes and bombing civilians and it is the Deputy\u2019s proposition that that country should have a veto on whether Irish peacekeepers enter into a peacekeeping mission. That is the stark choice facing us. That is what the Deputy is saying-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Be honest."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----that Russia will have the veto and our foreign policy-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Please be honest with us."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----will be dependent on Russia\u2019s say-so at the UN Security Council. The UN Security Council is no longer functioning. It is paralysed. The world is much more polarised by the hegemonic powers, by the US, Russia and China. We should retain-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rory Hearne The Taoiseach is giving up on the UN."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach No, I am not, but I am realistic about-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Without interruption, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----the United Nations and the Security Council. What we are simply saying is that we need to reform that-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Ask the people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----if our military is to have any prospect of engagement in peacekeeping and assisting Irish citizens. We need to reform our legislation to make sure that, where our citizens are in crisis situations around the world, we can get more than 12 troops out to assist them. We must also remember our role in Liberia and Chad. What was that role? That role was ensuring humanitarian aid to huge populations. We played a very noble role and Irish troops led that particular mission on behalf of many others. All we want to do is maintain peacekeeping. We are not joining NATO. We have no plans to join NATO. We have made that very clear. We are not part of any military alliance. Within the Constitution, there is a prohibition on mutual defence. This is a new concept that we must now have a referendum on an issue that does not involve any amendment, change, addition or deletion to the Irish Constitution. We have never had referendums bar those amending, deleting or adding to the Constitution."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Taoiseach. I call Deputy McDonald."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Deputy seems to now be undermining-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The allocated time is up, Taoiseach. I call Deputy McDonald."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----the whole process of parliamentary democracy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald The triple lock has been described here in the D\u00e1il, in this democratic place, by a Fianna F\u00e1il Taoiseach as the ultimate, legally binding guarantee of Ireland\u2019s sovereign military neutrality. That is the fact of the matter. The necessity for a UN mandate is essential to ensure our compliance with international law and to ensure that our actions are absolutely consistent as a non-aligned, neutral State. Those are the facts of the matter. The Taoiseach reaches for Russia. He could reach for others because the Russians are not on their own in violating international law and dismissing the UN system. He reaches for the fact that we need UN reform, which I agree with, as a pretext and camouflage to ditch Irish neutrality. He is wrong to do that. That is a shameful position. Let me put it to the Taoiseach again - we can debate this here - that the core of the position is this-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you Deputy, your time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald The Irish people get to call Irish neutrality. The Taoiseach gave them assurances to get Lisbon and Nice passed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald He offered up the triple lock as the guarantee mechanism. Now he wants to take it away."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Respectfully, Deputy, your time is up. The Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald He cannot do that without asking the people's permission."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach For over 60 years now, you-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald I am not 60."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----as in the Sinn F\u00e9in Party, the left-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald I just want to put that on the record."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I am talking about the Sinn F\u00e9in Party, the left and the far left, which for over 60 years have said neutrality was dead. In 1972 when we had a referendum on entering the European Union-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett We said you were killing it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Stop. Go back over the manifestos-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett That is very different."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach They declared that neutrality is over. They declared that it was going to be over in 2003, 2008 and ever since."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Then we got the triple lock."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Neutrality was not dead."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett We said the Government was killing it. That is very different."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Do not be so disrespectful."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Neutrality was not dead. They kept, decade after decade, trotting out this line about a military European Union complex, that we would be part of a European army and that our neutrality was dead in the water."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy So we got the Seville declaration. That was great, was it not? The Government is tearing it up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach All of it has been proven to date to have been false assertions and false narratives and they are doing the same here. I did not just reach for Russia. I said earlier that the United States has essentially stopped the UNIFIL mission-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald What about Israel?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----in Lebanon."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Israel."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I call Deputy Cian O'Callaghan."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The United States is on the Security Council. Israel is not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald I am aware of that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Are you going to stand, Deputy O'Callaghan?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The United States is on it. Let us argue the facts."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald I am arguing the facts."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Taoiseach, Deputy O'Callaghan is now on his feet."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The fundamental point is that they want to end peacekeeping but we want to keep it going."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Please, your time is up. I have called Deputy O'Callaghan."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan The treatment of vulnerable children in the care of the State is an ongoing horror and scandal. Yesterday The Irish Times reported from the High Court on the shocking cases of three of these children. A 14-year-old girl who has mild learning difficulties is being subjected to horrific sexual exploitation by multiple men. The girl has been approached by men who gave her alcohol, cocaine and other drugs. Tusla and the Government are fully aware of the depraved sexual abuse of this girl, which is happening because Tusla is unable to provide her with a bed in a special care unit. She is 14 years old. Another girl is also currently being sexually exploited by a large number of men. She has been seen on social media distressed and under the influence of drugs. Again, this girl is also in State care where she is supposed to be protected and cared for. Instead, she is being subjected to vile and disgusting sexual abuse. Tusla and the Government are fully aware that this is happening and are effectively saying they cannot do anything about it. Another child, a 16-year-old boy, is involved in criminality and is taking and selling drugs. He was holding large quantities of heroin and crack cocaine for older men. Garda\u00ed have now seized these drugs and he is in very serious danger. Again, there is no special care place available for this vulnerable boy. The Taoiseach told my Social Democrats colleague, Deputy Quaide, yesterday that nearly half of the State's 26 special care beds remain closed because of staffing shortages. Those staffing shortages have existed since 2018, for eight years. There has never been a time when all 26 beds have been open. How many children have been failed by the State during all of those years? How many children have gotten hooked on drugs, been pulled into criminality, or been sexually exploited and raped? Successive Governments have tolerated this abject failure of children that the State is supposed to protect. An article in The Irish Times today reports that Tusla's new plan to tackle this crisis is to reduce the number of children it takes into special care. This is a shocking approach to take. What is happening on this Government's watch is an outrage and the current approach to addressing it is not working. It has not worked for the last eight years. It is not acceptable to use staffing shortages as an excuse. Children are being failed and the Government must act. What is the Taoiseach going to do to protect them? Does he agree with the Tusla plan to reduce the number of children it takes into special care?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach First of all, as I said yesterday, the case of the young girl referred to in yesterday's reports is deeply serious and extremely worrying. We are engaging across government with the Minister, Deputy Foley, on this specific case and other special care cases, some of which Deputy O'Callaghan has raised. We will do everything we possibly can to protect vulnerable children. Those men and people who are exploiting children need to be pursued rigorously also and brought to justice. There is an enormous increase in demand on child protection and welfare services. It is not an excuse but there are very significant issues in terms of recruitment and retention of special care workers. In 2025 alone there was a 10% increase in referrals and they increased by a further 11% in the first quarter of 2026. Referrals have more than doubled since 2014. We have responded with sustained investment so it is not a resources issue. We have increased Tusla's budget to about \u20ac1.4 billion in 2027 and have expanded overall staffing by over 343. The special care area serves to protect and engage with a very small cohort of young people with the most acute and complex needs. Those settings require exceptionally high staffing ratios and specialist expertise. There has to be at least one staff member per child throughout the day, in addition to supervisory staff and the units obviously have to be covered on a 24-7 basis. That means seven individuals for every one young person. Children with particularly complex needs may require up to twice that level of staffing, or 14 staff to one individual child or young person. Currently, 15 of the 26 special care beds are staffed. The complexity of these cases is why Tusla has focused on workforce reform in the last number of years. Changes have occurred in an effort to increase staff numbers in terms of grading and so on. I will not go into the detail of that now. The changes are significant enough in terms of dealing with the recruitment issue and are delivering results. Tusla has successfully filled five new social care manager posts, two deputy social care manager posts and 20 special care worker roles as of September. We also have to create stronger care pathways so that young people can transition to more appropriate settings when ready, helping to maximise the use of special care capacity. Two new step-down units will open by the end of this year, with a third opening in early 2027."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan I asked whether the Taoiseach agrees with the Tusla plan to actually reduce the number of children taken into special care. Does he think that is an appropriate response, not to meet the need that is there and not to provide a sufficient level of staffing? What are his thoughts on that and what specifically is he going to do about this? These shortages have been going on for eight years. There have been at least nine High Court judgments on this issue over those eight years calling out the lack of response from the State. It is not acceptable. On staffing shortages, I am sure there are challenges but they need to be addressed. The Government and the Taoiseach need to ensure that those staffing shortages are addressed so that children in these dire situations get the care that they need. It is not acceptable to say that this is difficult and it is not getting addressed. We have had eight years of successive Governments not tackling this. What specifically is the Taoiseach going to do to fix this? What is his view on Tusla's plan to reduce the number of special care places?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I do not agree that nothing has been done over the last number of years. The services have expanded. I just want to make the point, and I say this in the most objective sense, that we need to be careful around the interaction of the courts, the Oireachtas, the Government and proper policy. Policy resides in here. What I mean by that is that over three decades we have been deinstitutionalising care. That is the fundamental direction of travel that I think everyone in the House agrees with. That does not mean we do not have institutionalisation. We do, in this case for specific care needs of children. I remember being Minister for Health and Children in the early 2000s when many court orders came in threatening jail for Ministers. What was coming to us was directly contrary to the policy position outlined by a unit in the Department at that time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan Does the Taoiseach agree that these children need special care?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Will the Deputy hear my point? We need to be mindful of that. I fully accept the judge's decision. I have no issue with sending the details to the Minister. That is fine. We need to be careful that we protect the overall policy idea of not institutionalising every issue pertaining to children."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik I will do a rare thing this afternoon and pay the Taoiseach two compliments on housing. It may not be a surprise that both come with qualifications. Last week I was glad to join new Labour Party councillors Peter O'Brien, Martha Fanning and others for the turning of the sod at D\u00fan Br\u00ed in Dundrum. The Land Development Agency, LDA, and D\u00fan Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council will deliver 934 new homes at the site of the former Central Mental Hospital. It is really welcome to see the LDA beginning to deliver. However, we now need it delivering at even greater scale. Turning the sod is one thing, but a family turning the key in the door of their own home is another. Speaking of turning the key, I have a second compliment. The Labour Party welcomes the housing Minister's plans to end turnkey acquisitions for social housing by the end of next year. For far too long, the State has pumped public money into buying turnkey units from private developers while failing to build our own State capacity to deliver homes. It means the Government has been giving developers tax breaks, selling them public land at a discount and then acquiring those homes back at a premium. It makes no sense and is bad value for money. As the Labour Party has said for years, the private market cannot be relied on to deliver the homes people need at the scale needed. We know this, with almost 6,000 children homeless. That is why the Labour Party has proposed a State construction company along the lines of the National Building Agency established by Se\u00e1n Lemass and Fianna F\u00e1il in the 1960s. The principle is the same. The State must build homes directly and at scale. While we welcome the ending of turnkey acquisitions, we are concerned that social housing delivery will fall off a cliff after 2028 when the new policy comes into effect. That is why we are saying the Government must effectively resource the LDA and councils to build the necessary homes. The problem is that people now lack trust in the Government's capacity to deliver homes. Its 2024 election campaign was predicated on a false premise. It delivered 10,000 fewer homes that year than it promised. It also unfortunately has form on half-baked and half-abandoned gimmicks like the housing tsar, the apartment standards U-turn and, of course, the notorious \"beds in sheds\", as they were christened by the Labour Party housing spokesperson, Conor Sheehan. The Government's promises on social housing are no different. Take the former Irish Glass Bottle site in Ringsend in my constituency. After long negotiations, a deal was struck in 2017 to provide 900 social and affordable homes. A decade on, we see the developer reneging on the commitment to deliver any affordable purchase homes, robbing local people of the chance to own their own home. To add insult to injury, Simon Coveney, the former housing Minister who brokered the deal, has taken up a lobbying job for the developer Johnny Ronan. You could not make it up. It is a question of trust. How can the Taoiseach reassure communities of his Government's capacity to build homes? How can he guarantee the delivery of social housing will not fall off a cliff in 2028?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I welcome the Deputy's contribution in respect of the 1,000 new units in Dundrum. She was at the event last week. It is a real demonstration of momentum in house building and of the role of the Land Development Agency. I do not believe we need two national building agencies. We have the LDA. We do not need a new national construction agency alongside it, which the Deputy seems to be proposing. I will make a point on social housing because I have heard a lot of commentary. Even this morning, somebody said that only 9,000 were built last year. Since 2020, close to 60,000 social homes have been added by this Government and the previous Government to the social housing stock. In the previous five years it was 34,500. That is the level of momentum on social housing that has occurred in the past five years. That needs to be acknowledged. There has been a consistent commitment to social housing since 2020 that outstrips anything done in the past two decades. We are now the fastest in Europe on completions per capita in house construction. We are completing approximately 7.2 units per 1,000 of the population. That is from Euroconstruct. We are more than double the European average of three units and triple the United Kingdom average of 2.4 units. Completions rose by 40% between 2022 and 2026. Ireland was one of only five European countries where output grew while it declined overall on the Continent. Between July 2020 and now, we have delivered in excess of 180,000 houses. We need to do far more. We acknowledge that. I know the Deputy has poured scorn on some of the initiatives. We are doing everything we can legislatively, and through the Housing Activation Office, the Critical Infrastructure Bill and enabling important investment in infrastructure, particularly water and the grid, to enable more housing to be built. There is also public transport that will unblock and facilitate substantially more social and affordable housing. I think the Deputy welcomed the decision on turnkey. We are endeavouring to transition to get a more sustainable market in house construction for the coming decade. The Minister made it clear this morning that we will continue to work with the local authorities. The local authorities will still be in a position to work with builders with a view to building houses they can contract and finance. What we are doing in the context of the turnkey decision is making sure that individual purchasers using the first home or help to buy schemes will not be squeezed out of it by the local authority buying an entire estate. That is a good reform. We have to put pressure on some local authorities to get back to house building. Some have been far better than others in respect of building social housing in their areas."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik The Labour Party's policy is to transform the Land Development Agency into a State construction company, not to create a new entity. The Taoiseach always wilfully misunderstands that. I heard nothing from him in his response about the effective resourcing of the LDA and local authorities to ensure they have capacity to deliver once the policy of buying turnkey homes has ended. I am putting the Taoiseach on notice that he has one year to effectively resource the LDA and councils. Otherwise, the capacity of the State to build homes at scale will be a major issue in the run-up to the next elections in 2029. On Saturday I addressed the conference of the Connect Trade Union, the union for craftworkers. They were clear with me that in order to end the housing disaster, the Government needs to resource and create viable apprenticeship pipelines and invest in public capacity. When he was making the turnkey announcement this week, it was unfortunate to see the Minister, Deputy Browne, getting a dig in to local authorities. I notice the Taoiseach did it himself a moment ago. The Minister blamed them for not stepping up to the mark on house building. However, if they are not adequately funded and resourced with the necessary staffing capacity, the local authorities will be unable to deliver at the scale needed once the buying of turnkey homes is at an end."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle That is your allocated time, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik We are putting the Taoiseach on notice on this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, that is your allocated time finished."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik It is a critical issue for all of those who cannot afford to buy or rent their own home."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Taoiseach, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We are resourcing at an unprecedented scale. I mean, 80% of every house built in this country now has State backing, one way or the other. Some \u20ac9 billion has been provided in the budget. Of that \u20ac9 billion, \u20ac3 billion is to deliver 12,000 new social homes in the budget 2027 allocation. The total Exchequer funding available in 2027 for housing is approximately \u20ac7.7 billion, comprising approximately \u20ac5 billion in capital and \u20ac2 billion in current. The investment in the LDA is additional and will complement that. Lending from the Housing Finance Agency will bring the total to approximately \u20ac9.1 billion. There are huge resources going into this, and they will continue to go into this. On the other side, the help to buy and first home schemes are doing a lot for first-time buyers. The percentage of first-time buyers drawing down mortgages is increasing on an ongoing basis. We are not scapegoating local authorities, but the reality is that some have done far better than others in terms of housing. That is just the reality."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Yesterday in his defence of the abolition of the triple lock, the Taoiseach asked, \"Who is going to engage in military adventurism? Does Deputy McDonald think D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann is?\". Does he think people have no memory at all? In 2003 I was one of more than 100,000 people marching against the US invasion of Iraq. The Taoiseach was a Minister in a Government that facilitated that illegal and imperialist invasion. They agreed to allow US troops to use Shannon Airport on their way to this adventure - an adventure that killed hundreds of thousands of people. A top civil servant told the defence committee that if the triple lock had not been in place, the Government could legally have sent Irish troops to participate in that invasion. The Taoiseach was correct when he said that the triple lock is at the core of our neutrality. Why? Because it is the only thing that legally ensures that the Government can only send troops abroad to peacekeeping missions. That is what this debate is about. The Taoiseach has misrepresented the position again and again today and yesterday. He presents it as reforming the triple lock. That is what the Taoiseach has an electoral mandate for, \"protect and promote Ireland's military neutrality including sensible reform of the 'Triple Lock' legislation.\", but can he be honest today and tell us he is not reforming the triple lock and that he is abolishing it? The civil servant at the Department of Defence at the committee said, \"You could call it a removal of the triple lock\" so stop misleading people. In the Government's legislation, is it not the case that there are only two locks left - the Government and the D\u00e1il - and the Government, by definition, has majority support in the D\u00e1il so it is really no lock at all? Today again, the Taoiseach spoke about getting rid of the triple lock in order to \"keep alive the ... tradition of peacekeeping.\" That is not true either, is it? The Government's Bill states, \"a relevant international force operates for the purpose of peace-keeping, peace-enforcement or conflict prevention\". Can the Taoiseach explain to the public what peace enforcement is? It is explicitly not peace-keeping, is it not? Peace enforcement is different because it operates without the consent of the parties involved. The Government's Bill will involve Irish soldiers in illegal wars with no UN mandate in conflicts. It is explicitly the purpose. If it were not the purpose, the Government would not have the word \"peace-enforcement\" there. Can the Taoiseach accept as well the fact, agreed to by the Department's officials at the defence committee, that any other regional arrangement includes NATO and any potential coalition of the willing? What this is about is freeing the Government's hand and the hands of future Irish governments to send Irish troops to fight in illegal wars wherever they want. The Government should tell the people where he wants to send our troops. Does the Government want to send them to Ukraine to engage in a war with Russia or does it want to send them to Lebanon as part of the EU's mission to strengthen the Lebanese armed forces to fight against Hezbollah?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy The Taoiseach asked why should there be a referendum on this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Why? Because people already voted on it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Your allocated time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy They were promised this. It is in the Seville Declaration. On this basis, they voted."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, are you unable to conform with the direction of the Chair?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy If you are going to get rid of it, it needs to be put to the people. It is not the Taoiseach's decision."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Taoiseach will respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Deputy's presentation, in my view, is completely disingenuous. I note his inability to observe and articulate the fact that what in essence he was saying is that Ireland should depend on the say so and the agreement of Russia, a state that has violated the UN Charter in a most egregious way, killing innocent civilians, behaving like a rogue state."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Donnelly Talk about Ireland."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach In essence, what Deputy Murphy is saying is we cannot participate in any peacekeeping mission from hereon unless a state such as Russia, the United States or China, agrees, particularly Russia because Russia has broken all rules under the UN Charter."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" A Deputy","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"A Deputy So has America."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach In terms of peacekeeping and peace enforcement, there have been peace enforcement missions under the UN. The Deputy knows that, so why did he deliberately create a false narrative there to suggest that this was the Bill?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Because it is not about peacekeeping."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach No. The Bill is, in essence, in terms of what already exists in terms of peacekeeping and peace enforcement. We have been on different missions, ever since we started in the 1960s getting involved in peacekeeping. The Deputy knows that very well. It would be for the Government or the D\u00e1il in terms of deciding what peacekeeping missions we would become involved in. We are not a military power. Let us get rid of all this nonsense. Ireland is not going to be participating in a war. We do not have the capacity to participate in a war. We are very good at peacekeeping-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Noel Grealish","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Noel-Grealish.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Noel Grealish Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----particularly good at it, and recognised internationally. That is all we want to continue with. When I have been out in Lebanon, I have talked to our soldiers. I talk to our navy. They feel fulfilment in their military careers, particularly when things were very difficult during the attack on Lebanon by Israel. When I went out there, I said that it must have been particularly tense and difficult. They said, \"This is what we are trained for.\" People who join our military understand fully the importance of peacekeeping and the impact it has on neighbourhoods and communities that benefit from peacekeeping but if I take the Deputy's direction of travel, the opportunities for peacekeeping will be very limited in the years ahead if we continue with the current system where, essentially, the United States has forced the ending of UNIFIL in Lebanon and Russia, because of its geopolitical issues, will not sanction peace missions in particular parts of the world because it would prefer the Wagner Group to be involved. Russia would prefer its own mercenaries to be involved to extract minerals from many African states. Let us look at what is happening in the Sahel. We need to have an honest conversation about this-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Like Trump wants one."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----but the Deputy's defence of Russia and all of this in terms of them being the decision-makers-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Taoiseach. Your time is up. The Deputy will now respond and you can come back in."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----in terms of where do we get the law in peacekeeping is now erroneous. It has no substantive basis anymore because of the behaviour of Russia-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Taoiseach, the time allocated is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----in terms of how it is behaving across the world, and others."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy This use of Russia and China to justify Ireland preparing to break international law is nothing new. Let me quote from a D\u00e1il debate in 2013: It appears that Fine Gael is arguing that Ireland is failing in its European responsibilities and is allowing Russia and China to have a veto over our peacekeeping activities. This is nothing more than an out-of-touch ideological obsession on the part of Fine Gael which ignores the facts of Ireland's international standing. That was a certain Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin. The Taoiseach was correct then. The problem is he has adopted the same ideological obsession. Let us get down to facts and let us be honest. Does the Taoiseach want to send Irish troops to participate in a European mission in Lebanon? Is that what the Taoiseach wants to do? Let us be honest about that because Kaja Kallas is clear. The EU is not seeking to replace UNIFIL. It is not a continuation of UNIFIL. Instead, it is a mission \"to strengthen the Lebanese armed forces and the ability of the Lebanese state to provide security.\" It is a war internal to Lebanon against Hezbollah, and the Taoiseach wants Irish troops to participate in that. All the triple lock does-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy -----is say we can only send troops within the framework of international law."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you. Your point is made, Deputy, in the allocated time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy The Taoiseach want to get away from international law. International law says peacekeeping only exists when the UN agrees to it. That is what international law says. That is not just the triple lock. The Taoiseach wants to get rid of it because he-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, your time is up. I am going to continuously talk over you until you accept the direction of the Chair."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy -----want Irish troops to participate in illegal wars and the Taoiseach had better tell us which wars those are."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We do not want to participate. By the way, there is no one breaking any law here. How dare the Deputy suggest that we want to break international law?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Why else would you get rid of the triple lock?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, respectfully allow a response."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy The triple lock enshrines international law in domestic legislation. That is all it does."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Under the existing peace missions we have been on in Lebanon, Hezbollah have murdered a number of Irish soldiers. The Deputy did not say that. Under the existing peace missions, only very recently, there was the appalling murder of Se\u00e1n Rooney by Hezbollah, and he was not the first killed by various groupings there. I condemn Hezbollah for what it does and for how it has been undermining Lebanon for so long. Training other armies, soldiers, etc., is something Ireland has been doing for a long time, and de-mining, for example, or medevac and so on. We want to create options. We are not definitively saying one or the other. We certainly do not want to be involved in wars. That is not our function. It is wrong to suggest that it is."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_11","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_11","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Seanad \u00c9ireann has passed the Employment Equality and Institutional Burials (Amendment) Bill 2026, without amendment."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_12","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_12","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Lowry","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Lowry.D.1987-03-10","memberCode":"Michael-Lowry.D.1987-03-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Lowry","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Lowry.D.1987-03-10","memberCode":"Michael-Lowry.D.1987-03-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Lowry This is a question for the Taoiseach or the Minister for Health. I attended a briefing on Monday delivered by the HSE mid-west management team. The briefing outlined the challenges facing University Hospital Limerick, UHL, this winter, the progress made and the support required to ensure patient safety. The message was forthright, clear and disturbing. However, it is important to acknowledge that progress has been achieved. There have been a 10% increase in emergency department attendances and 2,000 additional admissions to UHL compared with the same period last year. Department of Health figures also show that UHL's overall activity and output has increased by 36% in recent years. With the encouragement of the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, governance and oversight have improved, with stronger executive accountability and enhanced clinical management structures. Output and delivery across care services have increased and improved. This reflects the commitment and professionalism of staff and management. However, I want to be equally clear about the stark reality facing us this winter. Improved performance cannot compensate for inadequate hospital capacity and a specialist workforce that remains below what is required to meet demand. Demand has escalated sharply. Emergency department attendance records have again broken records. There is an extraordinary level of demand on a hospital under sustained pressure and in crisis. The regional executive has identified measures required this winter and sought the funding and support to implement them. Given the exceptional circumstances facing the mid-west region, I ask that this funding and support be made available. The response must match the urgency of the situation. We were also briefed that to provide resilience within the hospital system over the winter, day surgery and scheduled care at Nenagh, Ennis and Croom hospitals will be severely curtailed. Currently, management\u2019s only solution is to reallocate existing resources at the expense of selected services. The availability of consulting staff is a critical issue. The mid-west has 80 fewer consultants compared with the average across other regions. I welcome the establishment of the Mid West Health Planning Board and the acknowledgement that the region\u2019s healthcare capacity deficit has to be addressed. However, we need to be clear about what the board has been tasked with delivering. A regional healthcare map is not the same as a specific mandate to plan a new hospital. Following HIQA\u2019s review and its recommendations, the people of north Tipperary and the mid-west are entitled to clarity about the intended outcome. Are we going to get a model 4 hospital on the new site at Raheen? Is the Government committed to delivering that hospital and the additional capacity and staffing to address the deficit identified by HIQA? Our health staff are doing extraordinary work and the progress achieved is tangible. However, staff cannot compensate for inadequate infrastructure and insufficient specialist staffing."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank the Deputy for raising a very serious and important issue, particularly for those in the mid-west in terms of health services at University Hospital Limerick. I commend all the staff and all who work at all hospitals in the mid-west, including UHL, on the work they do. It is true that UHL is one of the busiest emergency departments in the country, with presentations totalling 95,000-plus in 2025, which was the busiest year to date. Demand remains exceptionally high, with attendances increasing by 8.4% between January and September. A lot of good work has been done to deal with those increasing pressures. Parallel with that, the Government has prioritised investment in the mid-west, and the Deputy has acknowledged the progress. We recognise that more is required. The Deputy knows about the completion of the first 96-bed block and that the contract has been signed for a second 96-bed block. That is happening right now. There is also the delivery of two 16-bed rapid-build units. Innovative alternative care pathways are reducing pressure on UHL, including a 40-bed virtual ward, the phased opening of the Limerick surgical hub and over 53,000 attendances at injury units at St. John\u2019s in Ennis and Nenagh Hospital during 2025. It is interesting. Funding for the hospitals has more than doubled from about \u20ac370 million in 2019 to \u20ac763 million in 2025. We then add to that the \u20ac317 million in capital investment between 2020 and 2025 so, by any yardstick, the increased investment has been very significant. Equally, there has been a significant expansion in the workforce. The number of staff at University Hospital Limerick has gone up by 46% since 2020, growing by thousands up to 4,568 now, with more doctors, nurses, midwives and so on. Therefore, both on the human resource side and the capital side, there have been significant investments. We had the HIQA review of safety and the design and delivery of urgent and emergency healthcare services in the mid-west, and we now have the board. That is important. A site has been bought. What is that saying? I think the board has had two meetings. What I would advise, and I think it is important, is that the integrity of the board needs to be maintained. If a board is established, that board should get on with its job in terms of its remit and a proper blueprint for the region into the future, based on the recommendations and the options in that HIQA report, which the Government has agreed with. I am not comfortable with details being articulated after two minutes. The board needs to get on with its work and have the capacity to do that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Lowry","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Lowry.D.1987-03-10","memberCode":"Michael-Lowry.D.1987-03-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Lowry We have been promised the new hospital, and it is essential that it happens. I want to ask the Taoiseach and the Minister about the winter surge and the package of support. Have we got a package and is the staffing ready? In the context of the winter surge, can the Department revisit the proposal to take control of the Raheen Lodge care unit in Mungret for the duration of the winter? This unit is operated by Bartra Healthcare and it is a state-of-the-art facility. It provides step-down and convalescent beds for 80 single-occupancy ensuite rooms. It is a brand-new facility. It is fully staffed but it is currently unoccupied. It is available to the HSE. Negotiations should start immediately to get this centre up and running within the HSE. I consider it to be a necessary and logical step to alleviate the pressure on UHL. The people of the mid-west need to know that regional service planning will proceed in parallel with the development of a new hospital at Raheen."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach A winter plan has been developed with the region. I understand there was a recent conference in the royal college with all the regions to work through a winter plan to deal with the winter surge. On the procurement of additional beds, in order to develop a greater sense of efficiency and value for money for the State, a national tender competition was entered into recently, and a bespoke national panel arrangement has been established for the provision of short-stay therapeutic beds. My understanding is that the HSE has confirmed that the beds referred to by the Deputy are included in the new tender process. It is on the new panel of providers as a result of this tender. The allocation to the mid-west will, in the first instance, increase to 55 beds on a phased basis, with an opportunity to increase that again in early 2027 to support the region to deal with demand over the winter period. A national tendering process was entered into for procurement for these short-term therapeutic beds. That is probably a more structured way to deal with issues as opposed to-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle That concludes questions from other Members. Before I move to Questions on Policy or Legislation, I would like to welcome to the D\u00e1il Councillor Mick McCarthy and friends, who are here today from Freshford, County Kilkenny, at the behest of Deputy \u2018Chap\u2019 Cleere. They are most welcome."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 na Comhalta\u00ed Eile - Other Members\u2019 Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_13","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation","counts":{"speechCount":67,"speakerCount":21},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_13","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Brady","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould I was listening to \u201cMorning Ireland\u201d this morning, and I encourage everyone to listen back to it. From it, I learned that the Minister for housing does not believe in housing targets. He does not believe in housing forecasts. I always knew he did not believe in delivering affordable housing. What I also heard is that he went on to describe the increase in house prices as \u201ca little thing\u201d. How arrogant can he be to describe it like that? They are his words. I ask the Taoiseach to listen back. House prices have gone up by \u20ac200,000. They have doubled under the Government\u2019s watch in the past ten years. Maybe that is a little thing for Fianna F\u00e1il, Fine Gael and all their buddies with loads of money, but for all the hard-working people, it is not a little thing. Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister for housing or does he believe that \u20ac200,000, and the doubling of house prices in ten years, is a little thing?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The time is up. I call the Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I listened to the interview as well, so I do not have to. I thought it was a very calm but determined presentation by the Minister."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould Did you?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I did, actually, particularly in terms of the achievements in social housing, which the Deputy ignored. I mean, 60,000 social houses in the past five years is no mean thing. It is a significant, dramatic change from what we were doing previously. Close to 60,000 social houses have been built since 2020, and that takes in the Covid period as well."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould House prices have doubled."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I cannot command the answer but I can ask the Deputy to stop interrupting."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Deputy is endeavouring to undermine the sincerity-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould I asked a straightforward question."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Irrespective of his political view, he should acknowledge the integrity, sincerity and commitment of the Minister to increase housing supply, which was clearly what he said throughout that interview. Supply, supply, supply, and I really want the Deputy's support when it comes to various projects."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould Is the doubling of house prices a little thing? That is the question I asked. I did not get an answer."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy Rice is on his feet. Please have respect for Deputy Rice."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice I again raise the issue of healthcare workers with long Covid whose payments are about to be cut off and who have been repeatedly failed by the State. As the Taoiseach knows, I raised this previously and I wrote to him about this. This is a small group of workers who got Covid at the peak of the pandemic and have debilitating symptoms which mean they cannot return to work. The special scheme ended on 31 January. It was extended for some people on sick leave, but payments been cut off today for some of those people. The Government is going to plunge them into poverty. Two women drove from Laois to Cork to meet me recently. Rose got Covid during the meaningful Christmas. She is a single parent living at home with her child. Her mortgage is \u20ac800 a month. She is now going to be on a social welfare payment of \u20ac254 per week. She is worried about losing her house, Taoiseach. She said that she went from the front line to the bread line. These are decisions that the Taoiseach and his Government are making. We urgently need a permanent solution here for these workers who served the State so well."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I have responded on a number of occasions and I have met with survivors of long Covid. We have responded at every juncture, as the Deputy has kind of acknowledged there. This issue has been through the WRC, as the Deputy knows. It is not as if consideration has not been given to the issue. I have met trade unions in respect of this. We will continue to keep the matter under review, but it is not simple."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik The people of Ukraine have endured nearly five years of Putin's brutal war of aggression, and I know the Taoiseach spoke on it earlier today. They deserve our unwavering solidarity, particularly with the growing hostility being shown to President Zelenskyy by US President Trump. It is terrifying that lives in Ukraine are so dependent on Trump's volatile temper. At a time when our solidarity is needed more than ever with the people of Ukraine, Ireland cannot be silent or complicit for that matter. That brings me to the question of Aughinish Alumina, which I have raised before in this House. In July, the Minister, Deputy Burke, announced that his Department's review into the exports to Russia from that plant had been completed and sent to the European Commission. We saw a summary of that report, but we have not seen the full report. We know that the Government is likely to face increasing pressure at EU level over coming months over what appears to be a light touch on Aughinish. Will the Taoiseach condemn Trump's approach to Ukraine, in particular his lifting of sanctions on Russia? Where is the report? Will the Taoiseach publish it in full? Can we be sure that Irish-produced materials are not being used to fuel Russia's war machine?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I discussed the recent issues along with others with President Zelenskyy on Friday. I welcome the Deputy raising this issue because, to be fair, she is correct that Ukraine deserves our unwavering solidarity and support. I was extremely disappointed when the Sinn F\u00e9in Party and others, not Labour, opposed the \u20ac90 billion financial support to Ukraine that the EU decided on. Sinn F\u00e9in said that we were wrong to support that. If that funding does not go to Ukraine, it will be completely defenceless, so we have responsibilities too. On the Aughinish Alumina question, the fundamental issue is the supply chain into Europe itself. Where does Europe lie, particularly in the supply of product from Aughinish to France and to Sweden? I will talk to the Minister in respect of the full report and what he can make available to the Deputy. The bigger issue with the USA was the Starshield and Starlink issue. I think Ukraine has engaged again with the USA to try to maintain a consistency of support on that front."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Last week, a grieving mother and formidable online safety campaigner visited Leinster House. Maria Raine is campaigning for stronger regulation of AI chatbots after ChatGPT drove her beloved 16-year-old son, Adam, to take his own life. ChatGPT advised him on suicide techniques, encouraged him to drink alcohol so that he would go through with it, and isolated him from his family. It told him not to talk to his mother or his brother. It said no one understood him like it did. In Ireland, more than half of eight- to 12-year-olds and over three quarters of 12- to 15-year-olds use AI. Some 16% of eight- to 12-year-olds and 20% of 12- to 15-year-olds use AI chatbots to chat or get advice rather than look up information, but the boundary between these is blurred. Adam began using ChatGPT for homework and ended with it writing his suicide note. Maria believes, and I agree, that AI chatbots should be banned from discussing mental health with children. Does the Taoiseach agree and will he introduce legislation to prevent ChatGPT from killing any kids in Ireland?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach It is a shocking situation and our heart goes out to the family. We support restrictions, particularly at a European Union level. President von der Leyen, in her recent state of the Union address, announced that the Commission will publish a proposal in respect of restrictions on access to social media for children. An EU-wide report would have far greater impact with regard to enforceability and protecting children than just one member state by another member state, because the services are cross-border. I am in favour of everything that we can do to protect children. The legislation at the European level will be known as the European Union Kids Act. It will take a graduated, differentiated approach to age restrictions. There will also be new obligations on platforms to design safe services in line with what the Deputy is saying, that are safe for minors and for children in particular."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty I have raised this multiple times and am flagging it with the Taoiseach again. New figures from EirGrid show that more than 13% of available wind and solar electricity could not be used in the first nine months of this year. That is enough energy to power almost 500,000 homes. It is concerning that we are losing vast amounts of clean, renewable energy because our grid and storage capabilities are not up to pace. At a time when households face high electricity costs and data centres are increasing our dependence on gas, which sets the price, Ireland is exposed to imported fossil fuels. It is a missed opportunity. We need urgent investment in battery storage and green hydrogen conversion and greater system flexibility and we are doing it too slowly. Can the Taoiseach give a commitment that we are going to increase our efforts to be more self-sufficient?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I can indeed. The day before yesterday, at the Cabinet sub-committee, we met EirGrid. We discussed the \u20ac18 billion investment to 2030 to enhance the capacity of the grid, which is important, but also storage. We have had some good developments, particularly in the midlands, on battery storage and so forth, but we have to move at pace. I get frustrated that some of the renewable projects are still with An Coimisi\u00fan Plean\u00e1la, for example. We have an energy crisis. Our dependency on fossil fuels creates unreliability in energy supply that is really problematic. Anything we can do to make sure that we optimise the energy generated by renewables and do not lose it is something that we are focused on. The discussion at the Cabinet sub-committee was looking beyond 2030 as well, at further investments to expand the grid. I certainly do not disagree with what Deputy Gogarty is saying."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe I want to ask the Minister for Health about the National Orthopaedic Hospital, which is located in my constituency, but based on the number of parliamentary questions, one can see it is used by constituents right across the country. In recent months, the hospital has been informing constituents that their waiting time for orthopaedic surgeries has increased because of a change in funding to the hospital. As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, I know the end of insourcing by the Minister was a positive measure because it was not giving good value for money for what the taxpayer was investing in our hospitals. Can the Minister ensure that those people waiting on the waiting list will get access to the orthopaedic surgeries that they need?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Carroll MacNeill","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Carroll-MacNeill.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Health (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill) The Deputy is quite right. Insourcing was a wrong use of public funds and created the wrong incentives. There has been significant investment in Cappagh hospital in recent years. Its budget has gone from \u20ac41 million to \u20ac63 million over the past five years. Staffing has increased by 130 in the same period. There is very significant investment but it is also true to say that as we build surgical hubs and other elective capacity, the State will not be using national treatment purchase fund, NTPF, funding to purchase that in the private market. It is appropriate that we wind down the NTPF budget in that way because we have invested in other elective capacity."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Clendennen","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Clendennen.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Clendennen The town of Birr has a population of 5,000. We have had nine outages across the town this year so far. Right now, Uisce \u00c9ireann has nine outages right across the town. These are lasting for two, three, four, five consecutive days. It is simply not good enough. One might expect me to come in and ask for the investment to upgrade this, but that has actually happened. In 2023, we got \u20ac10 million to upgrade a water treatment plant. This is simply not acceptable from an infrastructural delivery perspective. I ask the Taoiseach to ensure that there is some element of review of delivery, management, accountability and oversight of all of our semi-State utilities."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank the Deputy. He might be aware that a mechanical issue arose at the Birr water treatment plant last weekend, which was repaired on Sunday. Water supply was returned to affected areas on the morning of Monday, 19 October. There are leakage reduction programme works taking place daily from 20 October until 23 October in the area, which may have impacted some supplies. All of the works in progress should be completed by the end of the week and customers should see a return to normal supply, notwithstanding a three-to-four-hour window for supply restoration. Deputy Clendennen is correct that there has been significant investment by Uisce \u00c9ireann - by the Government, really - but that is what happened."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Brady","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Brady On 7 November, Wicklow County Council will bring forward and enact a new differential rent scheme for its 6,500 tenants. Of those tenants, 87% will see substantial rent hikes of 100%, 200% or, in some cases, 300%. That would be fundamentally wrong at any time, but given the huge cost-of-living crisis that is impacting people right across the board in terms of putting food on the table and paying for energy and electricity, this is coming at a time when people simply cannot afford to pay those grotesque, substantial rent hikes. I have had many people, including elderly people and old age pensioners, crying down the phone to me saying that they have been put in the situation of making an impossible choice between putting food on the table, looking after their sick or, in some cases, dying family members, wives or husbands, and paying this substantially increased rent hike. There needs to be an intervention here. This is coming about because of a failure to put in place a national harmonised rent scheme, so it is up to local authorities to bring this forward."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Taoiseach to respond. Your time is up, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Brady","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Brady There needs to be intervention. I am calling on the Government to intervene to stop these grotesque rent hikes proceeding."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, finish within your time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Brady","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Brady.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Brady I call on the Minister for housing and local government to intervene and stop these hikes from going ahead on 7 November."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle In future, prepare your question to finish within the time, Deputy Brady."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Government cannot be intervening in every local authority and there has to be sustainability in social housing so that we can provide for the long-term and so that people on the lists and so on have some opportunity on a continuing basis to access social housing. I am not familiar with the specific details in Wicklow County Council, but rent schemes should reflect incomes, they should be fair, and they should also enable some degree of sustainability in terms of social housing well into the future."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"S\u00e9amus McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"S\u00e9amus-McGrath.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy S\u00e9amus McGrath I want to raise a local school project, namely, the Owenabue Educate Together National School in Carrigaline. I know it is a project that the Taoiseach is familiar with. It is currently operating in temporary accommodation across two buildings in Heron's Wood estate. Fourteen months ago, the stage 1 design team addendum report was issued, but we are still waiting for stage 1 to be finalised. The current accommodation is unsuitable but every year it becomes more unsuitable because the school adds an additional class year. I ask that the Taoiseach follow up with the Department to try to ensure that stage 1 is closed out so that we can progress this project and give some certainty to the parents, teachers and all others involved in this school."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank Deputy McGrath for raising a very important issue in Carrigaline. We have had a lot of investment in quite a number of schools but this situation is pressing on this school. I acknowledge that and I will engage with the Minister for education in respect of it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"George Lawlor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"George-Lawlor.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy George Lawlor The collapse of Clearwater Construction, a company specialising in sports infrastructure based in County Wicklow but covering a lot of Wexford, Wicklow and the wider south-east region, has already led to devastation and will lead to more among clubs. Many clubs have handed over tens of thousands of euro, and some hundreds of thousands of euro. Indeed, one soccer club in Wexford has handed over \u20ac313,000, much of which is sports capital funding, to this company. While I appreciate that the Government has no role or function in contractual interactions between a company like this and the sports facilities, given that these clubs are run by volunteers across the board, can the Taoiseach ask the Department to intervene and assist these clubs in whatever way possible, be that advice or interaction? They really need it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach My understanding is that the Minister and the Department are endeavouring to help the clubs in terms of mentoring, advice and so on. I will talk to the Minister for sport in respect of this development. The situation that has emerged is clearly very difficult for the clubs. I thank Deputy Lawlor for raising it. We do not have mechanisms where the Government intervenes in every case a construction company collapses or whatever, but I do hear what the Deputy is saying in terms of the impact of this on the clubs themselves. I will talk to the Minister about it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan It has been 20 years since the planning guidelines for wind turbines were updated. Since then, these turbines have doubled in height. This is a cause of great concern right across Carlow and Kilkenny in communities like Inistioge, Castlebanny and Old Leighlin. I could go on. It is not right that private developers are allowed to exploit outdated guidelines to line their pockets at the expense of communities and taxpayers through curtailment payments. Does the Taoiseach accept that these guidelines are outdated and not fit for the current height and size of modern wind turbines? I, along with so many across Kilkenny and Carlow, want to see a moratorium on wind farms until these planning guidelines are updated to reflect present-day wind turbines."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The guidelines are being worked on. I believe there will be new guidelines brought forward by the Minister for climate and the Minister for housing, who are working together in respect of the planning statement to cover this. I would be cautious of a moratorium. We are in the middle of an energy crisis at the moment, brought on by our dependence on fossil fuels."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan Should we ignore the people?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach No, I am just making the point. We have great debates in here about giving another billion euro to reduce energy prices and so on. There is a balance needed, certainly, and there will be guidelines produced. Invariably, from across the House, people will come in and say they do not want a solar farm, they do not want wind energy, they do not want gas generation. Where does all of that lead us?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan Some communities are overrun with them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Edward Timmins I want to bring up the issue of name-calling that I have witnessed in this Chamber. It is an unwelcome and unnecessary part of debate. It actually is a reflection on the person themselves who does the name-calling and demonstrates that they do not have the language to deal with the issue. It shows a total lack of respect for the other person and, hence, a lack of respect for our democracy. It also lessens the authority of this Chamber, contributes to bringing politics into disrepute, and sets a bad example. I ask that people think before they speak, before they resort to name-calling."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle We could all answer that, but it is the Taoiseach's turn."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach It is not quite within my domain, but I agree with Deputy Timmins and support him in his endeavour regarding the avoidance of name-calling."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Deputy and I hope everybody has that answer in their head. I call Deputy Ken O'Flynn."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ken O'Flynn I am sure the Taoiseach will join me in welcoming James Good and Abbie Marsh in the Public Gallery, who come all the way from Ballincollig. At 8 a.m. today, 635 patients were awaiting beds in our hospitals. Of those, 394 were on trolleys. We now have over 1 million people on hospital waiting lists. The Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, has stated that we need up to 7,780 more hospital beds and 1,200 more GPs by 2030. The Government's plan, as I understand it, is to deliver 3,378 beds by 2031. Earlier this year, the Taoiseach announced 268 extra nursing places throughout the country, as one of the largest expansions in the history of the State. I agree that that was wonderful to hear, but I have to note that not one of those is going to the Mercy University Hospital, the South Infirmary Victoria University Hospital or Cork University Hospital. They are in the Taoiseach's constituency."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We are now entering the winter, which is going to be very challenging. My understanding is that we had about 491 patients waiting for admission to an inpatient bed at 8 a.m. today. The Minister has, for example, completed a national procurement in terms of short-term therapeutic beds with a view to aligning with the winter emergency planning for our hospitals to try to provide additional short-term capacity that will be required over the winter period. There was also a meeting with all the regions recently in respect of the winter surge and winter plans."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae The people of Ballyheigue - over 3,000 people - are still without drinkable water in their taps two weeks on. It is not good enough. Glenderry water supply was closed down in early July and all of the pressure was put on Ballyheigue then and it has been operating at a much lower level. It needs to be closed down completely for at least two weeks to see if this will clear. If it does not, it will have to be replaced in some other way. I am asking that a pipe be laid from Ardfert to Ballyheigue to bring water to those people from Killarney, which comes from Lough Guitane. In the meantime, open up Glenderry and treat it. It is a fine supply that has worked grand for 65 years. I also ask for-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The time is up, Deputy. We have to be respectful of everyone's time. The Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae -----a tanker to provide water because what is going on is not fair and it is taking to long too sort out."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I dealt with this issue in the House yesterday. My understanding from the presentation I received from the Department and from Irish Water is that there has been salt water ingress to the system, which is a very serious issue and requires serious investigation as to what has transpired here. All engineering options are being considered by Irish Water, such as the ones referred to by the Deputy. The Minister, Deputy Foley, has been in touch with me, as was the Deputy yesterday. All these ideas are being worked on but the more fundamental point is that they need to ascertain what has happened here because it is breaking new ground in terms of the challenges facing Irish Water in Ballyheigue. It is very difficult for the people of the area. I acknowledge that, absolutely."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide When Cork University Hospital, CUH, CEO, Jennifer Kearney, raised serious staffing and patient safety concerns in August, the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, lashed out, accusing the hospital of mismanaging its budget. She dismissed those concerns and repeatedly held up the mid-west as an example of sound financial management. On Monday, mid-west TDs and Senators were briefed on a similar staffing crisis in their hospitals, with patient care seriously compromised by recruitment restrictions. Those restrictions imposed by the Ministers, Deputy Carroll MacNeill and Deputy Chambers, are having devastating consequences for patients and staff. South-west Oireachtas Members have received no such briefing, only positive news stories about CUH. The Minister has created a climate in which our regional managers are afraid to publicly acknowledge the crisis in CUH. Meanwhile, hospital managers and senior clinicians who courageously raise patient safety concerns risk being undermined, scapegoated and even sanctioned. CUH is in the Taoiseach's constituency. It is our regional hospital. Almost every family in Cork has a connection with it. When will the Taoiseach stand up for CUH and put an end to these unworkable and unsafe recruitment restrictions?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Deputy has some nerve. He has some nerve to ask when will I stand up for CUH. No one has overseen more investment in CUH than I have, particularly when I was the Minister for Health."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide Have you talked to any of the doctors?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, please, allow an answer."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I am just saying to the Deputy that there is a new maternity unit. It is there a good while now but that did not happen by accident. There are the cardiac and renal centre. There has been huge investment and the population has grown and all of that. Let us not get into whether I will or will not stand up for CUH."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide No, but the recruitment freeze-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I will make this point. There have been huge funding increases for CUH. It has increased by 109% over the past five years. It has gone from \u20ac306 million to \u20ac636 million over the past five years. That has driven notable growth in staffing numbers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide Is this just imaginary?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach There has been an expansion of the workforce and there will be continuing investment. On the safety issue, the Minister did not lash out. The Minister asked Dr. Colm Henry, the chief clinical officer of the HSE, to go down to CUH because safety is important. Nothing has emerged from any examinations that there is a safety issue. Of course, there are pressures. There are real issues there and we have to manage those."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Taoiseach. Deputy Charles Ward is next."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach You have to work with people to ensure there is good management in those situations."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charles Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Charles-Ward.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charles Ward I want to raise again the ongoing concerns of the nine homeowners in Elm Park, Buncrana, who are living with the combined threat of defective concrete and flooding. It has been repeatedly stated that legal advice from the Attorney General's office is being considered and that discussions are ongoing with the OPW. However, these responses have been repeated over several months without anybody providing any definitive answers and meaningful clarity for these residents. I want to ask the Taoiseach three questions. First, has a decision been made whether relocation options will be provided? Second, if not, what are the specific issues remaining? Third, when will a decision be reached? These residents cannot be left without a timeline, waiting for legal advice and interdepartmental discussions. They have been waiting for years and the decision needs to be made. Will the Taoiseach commit today to providing a definitive update and a timeline for these people in Elm Park in Buncrana?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I will engage with the Minister for housing in respect of this. In terms of a timeline, I do not have a specific one here. If legal advices have been sought, they need to be sought. The Government has responded to the overall defective concrete blocks debacle and scandal very comprehensively, in an unprecedented way. That does not often get acknowledged. There is a suite of schemes. Approximately \u20ac400 million is being provided for pyrite, apartment defects and defective concrete blocks. I will come back to the Deputy on the specifics of the nine houses he referenced there."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Erin McGreehan Yesterday was a big day for us. It was a historic day where we saw huge parts of the Narrow Water Bridge sail up through Dundalk Bay and into Carlingford Lough. I thank the Taoiseach for his commitment and making sure this project happened for us in County Louth. I will turn to another historic project, namely, the very first all-Ireland university in Dundalk and the partnership with Queens that is huge not only for County Louth but for the region and indeed the country. There is a proposal in the shared island unit for funding to push forward this project. Will the Taoiseach update me on that proposal so we can continue to make history on shared island projects in County Louth?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I was delighted to see a BBC report this morning showing the excitement in the locality at the arrival of the key component parts of the bridge through Narrow Water. The shared island unit has been the key funding enabler to make that happen. Queens University and Dundalk is a very exciting partnership that will create the first all-island university and that is something we will proactively support. My understanding is that the Minister for higher education is working with his counterparts and that they are working on the various aspects around the partnership agreement, doing an analysis and so on. The legislation is being drafted to give effect to this and this will be a game-changing initiative which will assist in the mobility of students and will be of great benefit to Dundalk, and to Queens in respect of the all-island dimension."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peter 'Chap' Cleere","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Peter-'Chap'-Cleere.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peter 'Chap' Cleere A parent in my constituency has concerns with me regarding the Cumas disability day service in New Ross. This service plays an important role in supporting people with disabilities, providing opportunities for personal development, social interaction and greater independence. These concerns were brought to the attention of Deputy Higgins, the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, in June but a meeting has not yet taken place. Given the importance of the service to the individuals who attend it and their families, I ask that the Minister of State, or her officials, meet directly with this parent to hear their concerns in more detail and discuss the genuine issues they have raised. Would the Taoiseach be willing to arrange a meeting between this parent and the Minister of State to discuss these concerns and explore what steps can be taken to address them?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I will engage with the Minister of State to see if a meeting can be organised with those who have raised this issue and who are concerned about it."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Pholasa\u00ed n\u00f3 ar Reachta\u00edocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_14","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"State Apology to the Family of the Late Brian Stack: Statements","counts":{"speechCount":23,"speakerCount":22},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_14","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paula Butterly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paula-Butterly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paula-Butterly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sean Fleming","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Fleming.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Fleming.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle We now proceed to statements of apology to the family of the late Brian Stack. Before calling on the Taoiseach I wish, on behalf of the House, to acknowledge the presence of Sheila, Brian's wife, and Austin, Kieran and Oliver, his three sons, in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery. Today's proceedings mark an important milestone and a significant moment of recognition. I extend a sincere welcome to the family and express our appreciation for their attendance on this solemn occasion. They are very welcome."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Today, I welcome to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver Stack, the wife and sons of the late chief prison officer, Brian Stack. They have campaigned tirelessly to uncover the truth of what happened to Brian in March 1983 and to keep his memory and legacy alive, following his death in September 1984. Unforgivably, we still do not have the full truth of, or any justice for, what happened that day. With the facts we have, we know it was a very dark day in our country\u2019s history. On the night of 25 March 1983, Brian Stack attended a boxing tournament at the National Stadium in Dublin. He was a very senior prison officer, who was serving the State with great distinction, and the father of a young family. He was leading a full and meaningful life, a man in his prime of life. On leaving the venue, Brian was approached by a man wearing a balaclava. He was approached from behind. He was shot in the neck. Brian survived the shooting but was left paralysed and brain damaged and, after fighting on bravely for 18 months, he succumbed to his injuries on 29 September 1984. He was just 49 years old. His killer escaped with an accomplice on a motorbike and, to date, no one has been brought to justice for Brian\u2019s murder. We know now, because of the work of his family, that Brian was targeted and shot by members of the Provisional IRA, an organisation still in possession of all the facts of what happened. It is important to put these facts on the record because I know from Brian\u2019s family that they do not want any confusion in the public mind about who was responsible for his killing. Those who shot him, transported the killer and covered for them in the intervening decades are responsible. What happened next is why Brian\u2019s family is with us this afternoon and why I am here to offer them an apology on behalf of the Government. It is because Brian and his family, a man who was providing a hugely important service for as chief officer at Portlaoise Prison, at a time of great peril for the State, was badly failed by the investigation into his killing. A major Garda investigation was established after the shooting in March 1983 but this failed to identify those responsible. On Brian\u2019s death in September 1984, the case was reviewed by the Garda murder squad but nothing of evidential value was found. After this point, the investigation into Brian\u2019s killing remained open but dormant. In 2007, at the request of the Stack family, the Garda Commissioner directed a review of the case by the Garda serious crime review team. This review made 202 recommendations relating to the case, leading to the Garda Commissioner directing that an independent reinvestigation team be appointed in the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation in 2008. Although this brought a fresh impetus to the investigation and led to the identification of new lines of inquiry and suspects, it also led to the identification of a number of serious failings and shortcomings in the management of the earlier Garda investigation. These failings were admitted by the Garda Commissioner to the Stack family in 2019, and my formal apology on behalf of the Government in this House today relates to those failings. They are: a failure to keep a map made of the crime scene; a failure to keep a motorbike helmet found near the crime scene and linked to the crime; and a failure to keep custody of material exhibits, including various fingerprints, samples and debris gathered during the investigation. In addition to this, there was a failure to document some potentially important aspects of the original investigation, such as: whether an identification line up process was conducted before eyewitnesses in relation to a number of people who were arrested during the original investigation; whether prisoners at Portlaoise Prison were interviewed during the original investigation; and whether Brian\u2019s colleagues at Portlaoise Prison were interviewed during the original investigation. Furthermore, there was a failure to carry out certain steps in the investigation, which the Stack family considers particularly relevant and important to the case and which would now be considered part and parcel of a victim-centred approach to policing. These were to interview the Stack family and Brian\u2019s wider group of friends. Although it is clear that there was a strong suspicion of Provisional IRA involvement on the part of investigators in the original investigation in the 1980s and in the reinvestigation since 2008, there was a failure by garda\u00ed to identify a definitive link to the Provisional IRA in the shooting until this was admitted to Austin and Oliver Stack by a former IRA commander in 2013 through their family efforts to uncover the truth. It was also the Stack family who brought to light the existence of relevant intelligence received by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na in 1990 and brought it to the attention of the reinvestigation team in 2016. It was not recorded on the original investigation file. An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is independent in its functions, and it is not for me as Taoiseach or for any other Member of this House to insert themselves into any criminal investigation. However, it is plainly and utterly unacceptable that material that was potentially of evidential value to the investigation can no longer be located by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. It is admitted by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na that these are serious matters that had an impact on the investigation. As Taoiseach, and on behalf of the Government, I want to formally apologise to the Stack family for these failings. When viewed in conjunction with the failure by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to document those other aspects of the investigation that I have already highlighted, this failing raises legitimate concerns about how the investigation was conducted and whether it was done competently and properly. This is an inherently unfair position to place the Stack family in, and today I also apologise for this. I know from talking to the Stack family over many years that the hope for justice endures. Since 2007, the Garda investigation into the murder of Brian has continued to progress and I understand that in 2019 a comprehensive file was submitted to the DPP for a decision. Although the outcome of this was that no charges could be brought against any suspect at that time, I am informed that An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na continues to pursue live lines of inquiry in the case and is making every effort to bring those responsible to justice. I know that Garda liaison continues with the Stack family in this regard. Brian Stack joined the Prison Service in 1959 and progressed through its ranks to a senior uniformed role when Portlaoise Prison became the main place of detention in the State for subversive prisoners. Brian Stack served the State with great distinction and honour at a time when the endpoint of the Troubles still appeared to be remote. The challenges the State faced at this time were very significant and prison officers like Brian were in the vanguard of the effort to defend the State against subversives who wished to undermine it during the conflict. Brian\u2019s important service was recognised by the Irish Prison Service when it renamed the Prison Service College Brian Stack House and posthumously awarded him its highest bravery award, which was also renamed the Stack Medal. Outside of work, Brian was at heart of his community and a keen sportsman, referee and organiser at Portlaoise GAA and Portlaoise Boxing Club. Brian\u2019s commitment to public service was carried on by his son Austin, who also served the State as an assistant governor in the Irish Prison Service. Today, as I extend this formal apology to the Stack family for the failings and shortcomings in the management of the Garda investigation into Brian\u2019s death, I am conscious that this moment marks a significant milestone for them. Brian\u2019s loss was immeasurable to them, and their entire family and community circle. The pain they have endured has been lifelong. Many in this House will already be familiar with their campaign and their tireless advocacy. Today, in addition to the apology I have offered, I also want to thank them and pay tribute to them for their dedication to that quest, and to their father Brian. I share their hope that justice may still come. Mar Thaoiseach, agus ar son an Rialtais, deirim go bhfuil br\u00f3n orainn gur theip ar an St\u00e1t fiosr\u00fa cuimsitheach ceart a dh\u00e9anamh. D\u00fanmhar\u00fa uaf\u00e1sach a bh\u00ed ann. Bh\u00ed dualgas ar an St\u00e1t an fiosr\u00fa a dh\u00e9anamh go cruinn agus i gceart. Is l\u00e9ir n\u00e1r tharla \u00e9 seo agus t\u00e1 br\u00f3n orainn d\u00e1 dheasca sin. Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver, it is through your dignity, your courage and your love that Brian Stack will not be forgotten. It is my sincere hope that the words I speak today on behalf of the Government may provide some measure of peace to you. I am deeply sorry for what you have been put through."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Helen McEntee) On my behalf and on that of the T\u00e1naiste and our colleagues, I join the Taoiseach, the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, and the Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, in delivering this full and unreserved apology to the family of the late Brian Stack. I acknowledge presence of Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver. The State failed you in the investigation of Brian's killing. We know those failures added to your suffering, and for that we are deeply sorry. Today marks an important moment in your decades-long campaign to honour Brian\u2019s memory and his legacy following his shooting in 1983 and his subsequent tragic death in 1984 at just 49 years of age. I know it has been a long and painful journey from the very first shocking and devastating circumstances of his attack through his subsequent suffering and ultimately the great bereavement of his loss, along with all that has followed. I hope today brings a measure of comfort after your devoted advocacy in his name which helped to uncover the failings and shortcomings we are acknowledging here. An apology cannot undo the suffering you have endured or indeed replace the pursuit of truth and accountability. Brian Stack, as we have heard, was chief prison officer at Portlaoise Prison during the 1980s and was the sole prison officer in the State to die as a result of a Troubles-related incident. We know now that Brian was targeted and that he was shot by members of the Provisional IRA. To repeat it, they are responsible for his death. While a major Garda investigation was established after his shooting in March 1983, this failed to identify those responsible. To date, this impact has meant the ability of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to bring those perpetrators to justice has been severely impacted. Following Brian\u2019s death in September 1984, a review found no new evidence and the investigation remained open but dormant. At the urging of the Stack family, the Garda Commissioner ordered a review of the case in 2007. This led to a reinvestigation in 2008 and the identification of serious failings and shortcomings in the earlier investigation. These failings were acknowledged by the Garda Commissioner in his apology to the Stack family in 2019. Today, the Government extends a formal State apology. Despite the strong suspicion of Provisional IRA involvement throughout the Garda investigation, it was Austin and Oliver Stack who uncovered the truth. This was not the only occasion on which the Stack family brought to light matters relevant to the investigation. In 2016 the family brought relevant intelligence - again received by the Garda in 1990 - to the attention of the reinvestigating team. Today we acknowledge failings in this House as we honour the character and contribution of Brian Stack. As the Taoiseach has outlined, the investigation remains active and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na has confirmed it continues to pursue lines of inquiry to bring those responsible to justice. Brian served the State with great distinction as chief prison officer at Portlaoise Prison. He served at a time when the Troubles meant people in positions like this were at the coalface, defending the State against subversives who wished to undermine it during the conflict. While his role as chief prison officer was in those dark days of the 1980s, his service in the Prison Service began long before when he joined in 1959. He progressed through the ranks to a senior role when Portlaoise Prison became the main place of detention in the State for subversive prisoners. There have rightly been a number of actions taken by the State in honour of Brian Stack. As the Taoiseach has referenced, in May 2013 the then Minister for justice announced the introduction by the Irish Prison Service of a new merit award scheme for prison staff, including the Stack Medal. The Stack Medal is the highest honour that can be bestowed upon a member of the staff of the Irish Prison Service in recognition of an act of exceptional personal bravery. Brian\u2019s wife Sheila accepted the first Stack Medal on her late husband\u2019s behalf in 2013 in recognition of his loyal service to the State. That same year, the main building in the Irish Prison Service College was renamed Brian Stack House, again in Mr. Stack\u2019s honour. As we know, Brian was more than a man who served the State in a senior and highly valued role; he also served his community. He was at the heart of Portlaoise GAA and Portlaoise Boxing Club. He was a keen sportsman, a referee and an organiser. We know he was an inspiration, not least to his son Austin who carried out his legacy through his own commitment to public service and through his role as an assistant governor in the Irish Prison Service. Brian Stack was a man of resolve. He was a man of dignity and a man of courage. Those same qualities have been echoed and demonstrated in abundance by his family throughout more than four decades which were spent seeking truth, answers and above all justice. I pay particular tribute to Brian\u2019s wife Sheila. As his wife and as the mother of their children, Sheila has borne the heartbreak of losing Brian and the pain of all that followed. Her dignity, resilience and quiet courage over so many years deserve our deepest admiration and respect. I also acknowledge the extraordinary determination of Austin, Kieran and Oliver and the courage of the entire Stack family. You should never have had to fight so hard or for so long to have the truth acknowledged and the failings of the State recognised. Your perseverance has ensured that Brian\u2019s memory has never been forgotten and that his service and his sacrifice have received the recognition they deserve. To Sheila and to all of the Stack family, we are deeply sorry for all that you have endured. For the failures of the investigation and the additional suffering that they caused you, we are deeply sorry. I hope that today\u2019s formal apology brings some measure of comfort and peace and that you know your courage and your determination have not gone unnoticed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Canney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Canney.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Se\u00e1n Canney) On behalf of the Independent Members in government, I acknowledge Sheila Stack and her sons Austin, Oliver and Kieran who are with us today. For over four decades, they have lived with the devastating loss of Brian and the unanswered questions surrounding his death. Today the State formally acknowledges the loss suffered by the Stack family and the failings of the investigations that followed. These are failings that caused immense pain to Brian\u2019s family. Brian Stack was a dedicated public servant who was chief prison officer in Portlaoise Prison at a time when Ireland was experiencing one of its most challenging periods. As has been mentioned, Brian was a man who dedicated himself to the community, having been involved in various sports and leaving an imprint on his local area. His son Austin also served as an assistant governor in the Irish Prison Service, carrying on Brian\u2019s dedication to public service. His death was an immeasurable loss for the family and the Irish Prison Service. Brian Stack was the only prison officer in the State to lose his life during an incident related to the Troubles. The family's suffering was compounded by serious failures in the investigation of this shooting. The omission included the failure to preserve vital evidence, the loss of material exhibits and the failure to record potentially vital information during the original investigation. There was also a failure to interview members of the Stack family or other people who could have been of assistance in the investigation. These were serious shortcomings in an investigation into the murder of a man who had dedicated his working life to serving the State. These failings and their effect on the investigation were acknowledged by the Garda Commissioner in his apology to the family in 2019. It is right that those failings and their impact be formally acknowledged here in the D\u00e1il. For the Stack family, time has not eroded their pain or their desire to know what happened. They have spent over 40 years seeking answers and accountability. No family should ever have to carry this burden for so long. An apology cannot undo what has happened and cannot give the Stack family back the years they should have been with Brian, but it is an important acknowledgement of what went wrong. The family should not have had to spend so many years seeking answers about the murder of their husband and father. We owe it to those who serve the State and their families to ensure they are treated with fairness and respect. The State has previously recognised Brian Stack's service and sacrifice. In 2013 Sheila Stack accepted the first Stack Medal on behalf of her late husband, recognising his loyal service to the State. The naming of Brian Stack House in the Irish Prison Service College is another lasting recognition of his contribution. These honours are important but so too is the formal acknowledgement of the shortcomings in the investigation into his death. The investigation of the murder remains open. I hope the ongoing pursuit of those responsible for the murder will bring the family more answers. The family have waited a long time for the truth. I hope those responsible will ultimately be brought to justice. Today, we are remembering Brian Stack not just as a victim of a terrible crime but also as a loving husband and father and a dedicated public servant. I again acknowledge Sheila, Austin, Oliver and Kieran and their determination over so many years to establish the truth. Brian Stack was an honourable man who devoted his life to the State. His family deserve a thorough investigation into his murder and they deserve answers. I express my sincere sympathy for their loss to Sheila, Austin, Oliver and Kieran and the wider Stack family as we remember Brian today."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty On behalf of Sinn F\u00e9in, I welcome today's State apology to the family of Brian Stack. I offer my sincere sympathies to his wife Sheila and their sons Austin, Kieran and Oliver. The shooting of Brian Stack was wrong. It should never have happened. His family suffered a terrible loss. The failures in the investigations compounded that suffering and left them seeking answers over many decades. We cannot presume to understand their grief but we can recognise that the passing years do not diminish their loss or their entitlement to truth and justice. In 2013, a former IRA leader acknowledged that IRA volunteers were responsible for the shooting of Brian Stack. He said it should not have happened and expressed sorrow to the family. The Stack family's long search for answers deserves respect. More broadly, Sinn F\u00e9in supports a comprehensive, independent truth recovery process to address conflict-related deaths across this island. Such a process can help families to establish what happened and provide meaningful acknowledgement for their loss. The Stack family deserved an effective Garda investigation. They deserved to have information pursued, evidence properly examined and their concerns treated seriously. Today, the State acknowledges that they were failed. That acknowledgment recognises publicly that the family deserved better and that investigative failures added to the burden that they were already carrying. No apology can restore Brian Stack's life or return the years spent seeking answers, but it can recognise the wrong done. Across this island, other families also continue to seek answers. Their circumstances differ, but each deserves dignity, compassion and a fair hearing. Families should be supported in seeking truth and accountability without having to carry the burden of a public campaign for decades. A comprehensive truth recovery and legacy process must be independent and accessible to all families bereaved through conflict-related violence. All those holding relevant information must play their part. Alongside it, there must be a fair and effective framework for examining wider historical investigative failures and miscarriages of justice. As an Irish republican, I believe that building a better future requires us to face the past with honesty. People from all walks of life and every background suffered through the actions of British state forces, republicans - including the IRA - and unionist paramilitaries. The hurt caused by republican actions must be acknowledged and that suffering cannot be disowned. I am sorry for all the lives lost during the period of conflict on this island, without exception. My commitment to a united Ireland is a commitment to a country in which every person's dignity is respected and every family's suffering is heard. We have now enjoyed many years of peace. A generation has grown up free from the daily fear of violence that scarred so many lives. We must protect that achievement, help those still carrying its wounds, and ensure the tragedies of the past are never visited upon another generation. We cannot change the past but we can help people to heal and we can work to ensure that its violence and suffering are never repeated. Today, we acknowledge Brian Stack's life, his family's loss and the investigative failures they endured. I welcome this apology and hope it provides meaningful acknowledgement after so many years."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Matt Carthy Cuirim f\u00e1ilte roimh an deis labhairt inniu chun tac\u00fa leis an leithsc\u00e9al seo \u00f3n St\u00e1t agus chun mo chomhbhr\u00f3n a chur in i\u00fal do theaghlach Stack. I also want to welcome today's State apology to the family of Brian Stack and to repeat that the shooting of Brian Stack was wrong. It was a terrible loss for his family and should never have happened. I again offer my sincere sympathies to his wife Sheila and their three sons, Austin, Kieran and Oliver. I know that the passage of time does not make grief any less and I do not pretend to understand the pain and loss they feel. The Stack family deserve truth and justice, as does every family who has lost a loved one in violent circumstances. The Stack family continues to have unanswered questions and their search for answers deserves not only respect but the full support and assistance of this House. More broadly, we need a comprehensive, independent truth recovery process so that we can ensure that all bereaved families can establish what happened and provide meaningful acknowledgement for their losses. The Stack family deserved an effective Garda investigation. They deserved to have their questions treated seriously and every reasonable effort made to establish the truth. Today's apology acknowledges that investigative failures compounded their suffering. It is right that the State recognises those failures and the hurt they caused. An apology is an important public acknowledgement. It recognises that the family deserved better and that their concerns should have been addressed. I know that no words spoken here today can restore Brian Stack's life or recover the years that his family have spent seeking answers but the acknowledgement today matters. Families should be able to understand the decisions affecting their case and to know who is responsible for taking matters forward. Everyone who can assist bereaved families in establishing the truth, including in this case, has a responsibility to do so. As Sinn F\u00e9in justice spokesperson, I believe there are lessons about how our institutions respond to bereaved families and how concerns about investigative failures are examined. That requires proper communication, accountability and a willingness to acknowledge when things are done wrong. We see the enduring importance of these issues in the Omagh bombing inquiry and the inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane, both now under way following many years of campaigning by bereaved families. These are distinct inquiries examining different circumstances but what they underline is how deeply the need for answers endures and how much families can be required to carry in pursuing them. Other families and individuals continue their own searches for truth, accountability and acknowledgement. In that context, I also acknowledge the families of Councillor Eddie Fullerton and John Hayes, and also campaigners such as Dominic \u00d3g McGlinchey and Osgur Breatnach. They are very different cases with very different circumstances but each deserves to be considered on its own evidence with dignity and respect for those affected. Some families have spent years campaigning and some have pursued legal action, while others have neither the profile nor the resources to sustain such efforts, but every family should have access to a fair and independent process without having to sustain a decades-long campaign. A comprehensive truth recovery and legacy process must be accessible to all families bereaved through the conflict, regardless of who is responsible for their loss. All those holding relevant information must be willing to play their part. Alongside that process, we need a fair, transparent and independent framework for examining wider historical investigative failures and miscarriages of justice. Families need to know how their concerns can be raised, how they can be examined and what supports will be available to them. Where failures are established, there should be accountability and, where appropriate, an apology. The injustices and tragedies of the past have left a deep legacy of suffering and trauma in our society. During the conflict, people from across this island suffered through the actions of state forces; republicans, again including the IRA; and unionist paramilitaries. As a republican, I want to acknowledge the hurt caused by republican actions. That suffering cannot be disowned. I am sorry for all of the lives lost during the conflict. The past cannot be undone but what we can do together is work to help people to heal and to ensure that the grief, hurt and violence of those years are never repeated. That requires us all to listen to those who have suffered, acknowledge their experiences and uphold their fundamental right to truth and justice. Today, our first responsibility is to acknowledge Brian Stack - his life, the suffering of his family and the failures they endured. I repeat that the shooting of Brian Stack was wrong. His family deserve truth, justice and a proper Garda investigation. I sincerely hope that this apology provides some meaningful acknowledgment to them of the suffering they have endured over so many years."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan On behalf of the Social Democrats, at the outset I want to acknowledge and welcome members of the Stack family who are here today: Brian's wife Sheila and his sons Austin, Kieran and Oliver. The public apology that has been delivered today is long overdue because the murder of Brian Stack by the IRA was not just a crime against Brian and his family; it was also an attack on the State. At the time of his murder, Brian was the chief prison officer of Portlaoise Prison. It was a tough job which Brian carried out with distinction. On 25 March 1983, Brian was shot as he left an amateur boxing contest in the National Stadium. It was a cowardly and despicable crime which left Brian with catastrophic injuries. He died 18 months later. Nobody has ever been charged or convicted in connection with his murder. Before I talk about the serious flaws in the Garda investigations that followed, I want to remember Brian as a person because he was much more than the victim of that terrible crime. Most of all, he was devoted to his loving wife, Sheila, and his three young sons. He was also very involved in the GAA and boxing. He played hurling and was a noted intercounty referee. One particularly poignant photo I saw of Brian and his young sons was taken in 1976, in which they were all holding hurleys. When he was shot in 1983, his eldest son, Austin, was just 14, Kieran was 13 and his youngest son, Oliver, was 12. They were robbed of their father, his love and his guidance. He was robbed of the opportunity to watch them grow and to meet his eight grandchildren. Later on, Austin spoke about how harrowing and traumatic that period of their lives was. He said: As we grew up, 1983 was a very tough time for all of us ... As a 14-year-old, you\u2019re shaving your father and he starts to cry. Those sort of things will remain with us for a long, long time. The failure to bring anyone to justice for this heinous crime compounded this suffering, as did the refusal of the IRA to admit responsibility, something which took 30 long years. In total, there were three separate Garda investigations into Brian's murder, and there has been very little transparency about what exactly went wrong. In 2019, the then Garda Commissioner, Drew Harris, apologised for \"failings and shortcomings in the investigation\". He further stated that these failings were serious and had a detrimental impact on the investigation. The Stack family has been told that some of these failings related to key witnesses not being interviewed, material evidence such as fingerprint records going missing and critical intelligence not being acted on. However, no report on these failings has been published for all to see. A serious crime review team report detailing the failings has not been published and this is not acceptable. The Government is now issuing a State apology, which is right and proper, but we also need transparency and accountability. At a minimum, the Government should commit to publishing the report of the serious crime review team. I do not see why this cannot be done. Like this apology, its publication is long overdue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Gary Gannon I acknowledge and welcome Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver Stack and thank them for their immense courage and their dignity in being here today. The grace and determination the members of the Stack family have shown throughout their decades-long campaign for justice have been nothing short of remarkable. What began as a senseless act of violence against this family became a decades-long fight for answers, accountability and the truth. At almost every turn, they met barriers that should never have been put in their way in the first place. The murder of Brian Stack was an appalling act but what followed, and the manner in which his family was treated in its search for justice, compounded this tragedy in ways that are very difficult to comprehend. My colleague, Deputy O'Callaghan, has just spoken about the enormous loss Brian's murder represented to his young family at the time. It is something we should all take a moment to reflect on today. Before we speak about investigations, reports, institutional failures or State apologies, we should remember the man at the centre of all this. Brian Stack was a devoted husband and father. He was a dedicated public servant who carried out an incredibly difficult job with diligence and integrity. His bravery was recognised throughout his career and it stands in the starkest possible contrast to the cowardice of those who murdered him. He was shot in the back and his killers spent three decades refusing to acknowledge their responsibility. Even this acknowledgement did not come willingly. It came after years of extraordinary persistence by a family that should never have had to fight so hard for the truth. This is something we cannot lose sight of today. The Stack family were not simply grieving the loss of a husband and father; they were forced to become campaigners, to challenge institutions, to pursue information and to confront people who had an obligation to tell the truth. All the while, they were dealing with the most unimaginable personal loss. What makes this particularly difficult is that the family's suffering was compounded time and again by the failures of the State itself. We know that 194 distinct errors were identified in the first investigation into Brian's murder. This is an extraordinary number of failings in an investigation into a murder of this seriousness. They were not simply administrative mistakes or minor oversights; they were serious failures that undermined the investigation and, ultimately, the family's pursuit of justice. For years, Brian's family's belief about who was involved in this heinous act was not properly acknowledged. Information was withheld from the family and the transparency it was entitled to was not forthcoming. There is no way to undo the damage these failures have caused. No apology, however sincere, can give Brian Stack back to his family. No words spoken in this Chamber today can return the years his family have had to spend fighting for answers. We have an obligation now to ask ourselves what it means for the State to apologise. An apology cannot simply be the end of a process; it has to be worth the paper it is written on. If we are serious about acknowledging the failures that took place, we must be prepared to confront them openly. I agree with Deputy O'Callaghan that this should mean publishing the serious crime review team's report. This would allow Brian's family and the public to understand the full extent of what went wrong. It would mean recognising that transparency is not something to be feared or avoided simply because the truth might be uncomfortable. There is a broader point here about how we approach truth and reconciliation on this island. We speak a great deal about reconciliation, and rightly so, but reconciliation cannot mean avoiding difficult conversations. It cannot mean asking families to move on while the questions they have spent decades asking remain unanswered. It certainly cannot mean that the passage of time somehow diminishes the responsibilities of those who committed acts of violence or the institutions that subsequently failed the families left behind. If we are serious about truth and reconciliation, we have to be willing to have these hard conversations. We have to be prepared to acknowledge uncomfortable truths, even when they challenge the narratives that institutions have held onto for decades. We have to understand that reconciliation without truth is not meaningful reconciliation at all. The Stack family has demonstrated this more clearly than anybody. These family members have shown extraordinary courage in pursuing answers, even when doing so meant confronting powerful institutions and facing enormous resistance. The very least we owe them now is the willingness to do the difficult things ourselves, to be open about what happened, to acknowledge the full extent of the State's failures and to ensure the apology is accompanied by meaningful action. I again acknowledge Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver. I have enormous admiration for the dignity and determination you have shown throughout your campaign. You should not have had to fight so hard. You should never have had to spend decades demanding answers that ought to have been provided to you. While today is an important moment, I hope it is not presented as the conclusion of the State's responsibility to your family. The measure of this apology will not simply be in the words spoken here today; it will also be in what the State is prepared to do after the words have been spoken. Go raibh maith agaibh and thank you for your courage and dignity."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy William Aird I take this opportunity to welcome Sheila Stack, and her sons, Austin, Oliver and Kieran, to the House today. I welcome the Government's decision to issue a formal apology to the family of the late Brian for the serious shortcomings in the Garda investigation into his shooting and death. As a Laois TD, I believe this is an important moment for our county and for the Irish Prison Service. Brian Stack served the State with distinction as chief prison officer at Portlaoise Prison during a difficult and dangerous period in our history. He was a dedicated public servant who carried out his duties with commitment. His life was tragically changed and ended by a brutal attack. I know Brian's death was a devastating loss to you, Sheila; to your three sons, Austin, Oliver and Kieran; and to all of your extended family. It was also a loss to the Irish Prison Service and the wider community in County Laois. What makes this tragedy more painful is that more than four decades later, nobody has been brought to justice for his killing. The shortcomings in the original investigation were very serious. Important evidence was not retained, aspects of the investigation were not correctly documented, and Brian's family and wider circle of friends were not interviewed. It is troubling that the family itself had to bring relevant intelligence to the attention of investigators. These failures affected an investigation into the killing of a public servant and added to the distress of the family, who have spent decades seeking answers. I acknowledge the determination of Sheila, Austin, Oliver and Kieran in pursuing the truth about what happened to Brian. Their persistence over many years, in the face of considerable disappointment, deserves our respect. The Garda Commissioner apologised to the family in 2019, and the Government's decision to make a formal apology in this House today is an important acknowledgement of the failings that occurred. It demonstrates that the State is prepared to recognise where it fell short and to acknowledge the consequences for those affected. I know an apology cannot undo the family's loss, but it shows that Brian Stack's family deserved better and that the failings in the investigation must be recognised. Brian Stack's service has not been forgotten, as has been said. The establishment of the Stack Medal, the Irish Prison Service's highest award for exceptional personal bravery, and the naming of Brian Stack House at the Irish Prison Service College in Portlaoise are fitting tributes to his courage and dedication. I am glad this recognition is accompanied by a continued commitment to seeking justice. I welcome the confirmation that the investigation remains active, and I encourage An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to follow every appropriate line of inquiry to bring those responsible to justice. Today, we recognise Brian Stack's service to the State. We acknowledge the suffering endured by his family, and we welcome an apology that has been sought for many years. I hope this formal acknowledgement brings some comfort to Sheila, Austin, Oliver and Kieran. As a person born and reared in Portlaoise, I also want to say that Brian's father came from County Kerry to serve as an engineer with Laois County Council. The Stack family have been part of the community in Portlaoise and the community in Togher. I do not remember them being there, but I know Brian's father lived out there at one stage. When I was very young and living on the Abbeyleix Road in Portlaoise, my friends and I would go to the back of the Garda station, which is very close to our homes, and we would watch Brian Stack in there coaching younger people in boxing. I remember great people such as the late Bobby Blackwell, who was a garda in Portlaoise, and Gordon Blackwell who did boxing there. Brian Stack, as we would have known him when we were very young, would have been in there, not training those people but the younger kids. I can remember that distinctly. I say that because Brian Stack was a man who gave of his time outside work for the greater good of younger people in Portlaoise. He hurled with Portlaoise, as did his sons. Not only did he do that, but he also gave of his time as a referee, officiating at many underage matches to encourage people participating in sport. Little did I think I would be at a Portlaoise Town Commission meeting when the late Brian Stack died. That meeting used to be held at night, and it was adjourned as a mark of respect. It is nice to be here today to be a part of this apology on behalf of the Government. To Sheila, to her sons, to both extended families, and to the O'Donoghue family, I want to say that I agree with everything that has been done and said here today. Brian Stack deserves to be remembered with dignity and respect, and his family deserves our continued support in the pursuit of truth."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Erin McGreehan There is a fierce loneliness and sadness in the Chamber today as the State apologises for its own failures to investigate an horrific crime. There is something deeply painful about a family having to spend more than 40 years asking the State to acknowledge that it failed them. My thoughts today are with Sheila, Austin, Oliver and Kieran and everybody who loved Brian Stack. The presence of the Stack family here and the statements today remind us of a very dark time. It was difficult to listen to some in the Opposition because talk is cheap and easy, but actions are far more difficult. Brian Stack was chief prison officer at Portlaoise Prison, as many have said, and a man who served the State with pride and dignity. To his family, however, he was a husband, a daddy and a person they expected to come home. In March 1983, Brian was shot as he left a boxing tournament. He survived, paralysed, and lived with devastating consequences until his death 18 months later. He was just 49. It was a desperate, cowardly and disgusting act by the Provisional IRA, a ruthless and rotten organisation that inflicted pain and terror on so many victims and families. We cannot measure what those months after the attack were like for Brian, Sheila and their boys, as they experienced fear, hopelessness and the grief of then losing him. Their suffering has been compounded by serious failures of the Irish authorities. Evidence was not retained, important investigative steps were not documented and Brian's family and friends were not interviewed. Unfortunately, the State has replicated these failures in respect of other acts of violence during the Troubles. These failures have affected the possibility of bringing many killers to justice, including Brian Stack's, and have denied many families the answers they deserved. The State should have carried out that responsibility. Instead, the Stack family had to keep pushing, questioning and searching for the truth. They should never have had to work so hard. I welcome the Taoiseach's full and unreserved apology today. It matters that the State says clearly on the record of this House that the family was profoundly failed by the State. However, we have to be honest that no one has been brought to justice for Brian Stack's killing. The passage of time does not diminish that responsibility, and anyone who holds information should come forward. A family has waited for far too long. People know who did this. If they really want a peaceful and reconciled island and a peaceful and proper future, which we all want in this House, they must face up to what they did. As somebody from Louth, a Border county, I know that peace requires us to face up to those painful truths. We cannot ask bereaved families to set their grief aside because the truth is uncomfortable. Their loved ones mattered, and their questions still matter. Although the truth is desperately painful, they are faced with hypocrisy, contradiction, hurt and trauma. Far too many families are still awaiting justice and knowledge not only of what happened to their loved ones but in many cases, and in the cases of those who disappeared, even where their bodies are. An apology cannot return the years with Brian that were stolen from his family or answer every question, but I sincerely hope today brings his family some measure of peace. Brian Stack served the State with dignity and gave it proper service. His family deserves better. Today, we must mean every word of that apology and ensure that more is done for the Stack family in Brian's memory."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Claire Kerrane I welcome today's State apology to the family of Brian Stack, and I too offer my sympathies to Brian's wife, Sheila, and to their sons, Austin, Kieran and Oliver. Brian Stack's shooting was wrong and should never have happened. The Stack family's search for truth and for justice deserves respect and support. I was five years old when the Good Friday Agreement was signed. I grew up with the possibilities that peace opened for my generation because others found the courage to talk, negotiate and build a peaceful and democratic way forward. I entered politics because I believe in a united Ireland and a better future for everybody who shares this island. That belief fills me with hope but it also brings a responsibility to listen to those who carry the hurt of the past. People from every section of the community suffered through the actions of various actors in the conflict, including the forces of the British state, the IRA and loyalists. As a republican, I acknowledge the suffering caused by all republican actions. My generation inherited a hard-won peace. We must protect that peace and help those who are still living with the hurt of the past. We cannot ask families to leave their grief behind. That is not possible. We must support their right to truth and justice. That requires a comprehensive and independent truth recovery process for conflict-related deaths alongside a fair examination of wider investigative failures and miscarriages of justice. Everyone who can help families to establish the truth has a responsibility to do all that they can. For my generation, building on peace means facing the past honestly and helping to create a future in which the suffering of the past is never repeated. Today, I hope this apology provides some meaningful acknowledgement of the loss and the failures that the Stack family have endured."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik I welcome the opportunity, on behalf of the Labour Party, to speak on the State apology to the family of the late Brian Stack in relation to the grave failures in the investigations into his murder. This apology from the State is long overdue. It is very welcome. I express my deepest sympathies to the family of Brian Stack \u2013 Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver \u2013 who are with us today, and commend them on their long campaign for justice. Even though they continue to be denied justice for the murder of their father, I hope that today's apology and acknowledgement of State failings will be of some comfort and support to them. Brian Stack was chief prison officer at Portlaoise Prison. Forty-three years ago, in March 1983, after attending a boxing match, he was shot in the neck and paralysed, and ultimately died in September 1984, aged just 49. Brian Stack was a husband, father, committed local sports organiser and dedicated public servant. He went out to enjoy an evening of sport and never returned to the life he had known, leaving a wife and three young sons. His killing was an appalling act of violence. It was an attack on a servant of the State, indeed on the State itself, and it had devastating consequences for the people who knew and loved him. The Stack family have shown extraordinary determination, resilience and courage over the four decades and more since Brian was killed. They have continued to ask questions, to seek answers and to insist that failures in the investigations should be recognised. We know that a State apology will not compensate them for the years of love and companionship stolen from them and from Brian's eight grandchildren. It cannot return the years they have lost or undo their suffering. It cannot secure the conviction of Brian's murderer. However, today's statements are essential in affirming that the Stack family were failed and that they were right to raise the questions that they have asked. I acknowledge the words of Austin Stack, who has spoken of the comfort this apology will bring, particularly to Sheila, in finally having the State officially recognise that they were failed. In 2013, the Provisional IRA accepted responsibility for Brian Stack's killing, but no one has ever been brought to justice for it, despite three separate investigations into the murder. Those investigations, the initial one in particular, we know now to have been riddled with defects, and indeed the Taoiseach outlined some of the particular failings and defects. In 2019, the former Garda Commissioner apologised for his organisation's failures on that front. It is important for this House to apologise today too. Labour is a party in opposition today but my party has served in government. We recognise and acknowledge the State failures that we are here to discuss and we echo the apology from the Taoiseach. However important an apology may be, it is no substitute for justice. There must be people who know who Brian Stack's killer or killers are. Indeed, it has been alleged that former Members of this House either knew who the killer was or possessed information that would have been material to an investigation into the killer. In this context, as we know, on 7 December 2016 former TD and leader of Sinn F\u00e9in, Gerry Adams made a D\u00e1il statement, a personal explanation by a Member, on the murder of Brian Stack. It is very rare for the D\u00e1il to give a Member time for a personal statement. It is the Labour Party's view that Gerry Adams wasted that opportunity in failing to provide the Stack family with substantive answers in that statement. Exactly ten years since that statement, there are still far too many questions that have not been addressed by Sinn F\u00e9in. Gerry Adams is no longer a Member of this House. There is no D\u00e1il mechanism to enable him to make a second statement in the Oireachtas, but his party still has D\u00e1il representation and it still has outstanding questions to answer, as the Government does. On the Government failings and the serious crime review report, Austin Stack has said this week that the review team found 194 errors and omissions in the first investigation and that his family has received only a verbal summary of some of them. The Stack family have asked successive Ministers for justice to allow them to see the full report. I repeat that call and ask the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, to ensure the report will be disclosed to the family after today's apology. Sinn F\u00e9in also has a role here. Austin Stack has called on it to apologise and to do more than that, namely assist in the quest for justice for Brian. For anyone watching, I repeat the call of former Garda Commissioner, Drew Harris. When making his apology in 2019, he confirmed then that the investigation remained open. He appealed for anyone with information to come forward. That appeal remains equally important today. Indeed, it was very welcome to hear the Taoiseach say that An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na continues to pursue live lines of inquiry in this case, that the Garda is making every effort to bring those responsible to justice and that it is continuing to liaise with the Stack family in that regard. That is extremely welcome. Anyone with information on the murder of Brian Stack, even all these years later, must come forward to the Garda now. When a family seeks answers after the murder of a loved one, particularly a loved one murdered in the service of the State, the State must do all in its power to pursue the truth. When that does not happen and investigations fail, families still deserve accountability. Today is about Brian Stack and the people who loved him. It is about the grief that the family have had to carry for more than four decades. It is about their strength in challenging the State and those who knew what went on that day, and about their courage. It is also about their courage. Their courage has been no mean feat. They deserve our fulsome commendations for the work they have done in seeking to uncover the truth. On behalf of the Labour Party again, I welcome the State apology today. I hope it brings some measure of comfort to the Stack family. I also hope it will cause those with the means of assisting them to reflect further, to reflect and to do the right thing in helping and supporting the family in their long-standing quest to expose the truth of what happened to Brian Stack and to secure justice and accountability for him now. Brian Stack and his family deserved better from the State 40 years ago, and they deserve better today too."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cormac Devlin I welcome the State's and the Taoiseach's full, unreserved apology to the Stack family this afternoon. I welcome Sheila, Austin, Oliver and Kieran to the House. Our thoughts are also with the wider Stack family and Brian's Prison Service colleagues. Brian Stack was chief prison officer at Portlaoise Prison. In March 1983, he was shot from behind as he left the National Stadium. He was left paralysed and died 18 months later, aged just 49. He is the only prison officer in the State to die as a result of the Troubles. I have met Austin on several occasions, most recently in my capacity as Cathaoirleach of the Good Friday Agreement committee. Austin was 14 when his father died. For decades, his family has fought tirelessly for answers. They brought to light intelligence never recorded on the original file and, in 2013, through their own efforts, they secured an admission of IRA responsibility. No family should have to do this work. Today, the State acknowledges its failures. The map of the crime scene was not kept, the motorcycle helmet was not kept, fingerprints were not kept and the family were never even interviewed. Those failings were serious. They affected the investigation itself, and no one has ever been brought to justice for the killing of Brian Stack. Today shows that the legacy of the Troubles is a question for this State too. Last night, the House of Commons passed the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill by 330 votes to 178, and it now goes to the House of Lords. The Government has called this an important milestone, and I agree, but the legislation must also comply with the European convention and stay faithful to the joint framework. I share the concerns about one particular element. Serious Troubles-related prosecutions will now need the consent of the attorney general in London. The reforms that flowed from the Good Friday Agreement removed the attorney general's power to direct prosecutions, and I know these concerns are shared across the North too. However, there is progress as well. Legislation passed this year allows the Omagh bombing inquiry to seek sworn evidence from the Garda and officials. Last month, it heard from a senior Garda detective. That is both Governments delivering on their commitments. The families and, indeed, the victims will judge that progress by the answers it brings. However, Governments cannot do this alone. Those who were involved hold answers no file contains. The Stack family proved that. Four families still wait to bury their loved ones: Joe Lynskey, Columba McVeigh, Robert Nairac and Seamus Maguire. I renew the call on former paramilitary groups to bring what they know to the Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains, engage fully with the new information retrieval body and give these families a degree of closure. I ask the Taoiseach to raise these issues with the British Government, particularly while the Bill is with the House of Lords. Brian Stack served this State with courage. For far too long, the State did not serve his family as it should have. I hope today\u2019s State apology brings some degree of closure and peace to the family."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paula Butterly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paula-Butterly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paula-Butterly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paula Butterly At the heart of this story is a man who was in the fullness of his life, a wife, Sheila, who had a wonderful husband by her side and sons, Austin, Kieran and Oliver, who had a wonderful father who was part of the community. All too tragically, undeservedly and unjustifiably, he was struck down in the prime of his life. While we are all here to acknowledge the failings of the State and the investigations, we should never forget that the true cause of his death was by the perpetrator and that there are people here today, both inside and outside of this Chamber, who hold the answers to many of those questions. I wish to acknowledge the immense dignity, perseverance and strength shown by Sheila Stack and her sons for more than four decades in their pursuit of truth and justice for their husband and father. While no apology can undo the terrible loss suffered by the Stack family, today\u2019s full and unreserved apology is an important recognition of the serious failings that occurred in the investigations following the murder of Brian, their husband and father. We remember Brian\u2019s dedication and service to the State and the sacrifices made by his family. I hope this apology brings some measure of acknowledgement, comfort and closure to Brian\u2019s family. Their dignity, resilience and determination have been an example to us all. Today, we stand with the Stack family and reaffirm our commitment to ensuring that every effort continues to be made in the pursuit of truth and justice. I hope they never lose hope that, in some way, we can get that truth for them. I stand with my colleagues and appeal, beg and implore anyone, either inside or outside of this Chamber, to bring forth that information and give comfort once and for all to the Stack family."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn The killing of Brian Stack was absolutely wrong. There can be no equivocation in that regard. No Irish republican would ever try to justify what happened. It was absolutely wrong. I commend Sheila and the Stack family on their campaign for answers and justice. When I look at the litany of Garda failures, I want to also tell the story of someone I personally knew and loved, namely Councillor Eddie Fullerton from my hometown of Buncrana, County Donegal. Eddie was assassinated by unionist paramilitaries in May 1991. Looking at the litany of failures by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na in the investigation of Brian Stack, they are repeated and even worse in the case of Councillor Eddie Fullerton, whose murder occurred just a short number of years later. A key witness had seen those responsible, clearly having burned out the car used and being picked up by another car. That key witness was dismissed by a senior member of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na when they presented their evidence the next day. It was only 12 years later when the witness listened to Eddie Fullerton\u2019s late son, Albert Fullerton, on the radio and reached out to him that the family became aware of this. Key forensic evidence was not dealt with. Legal people who looked at this case years later were shocked at the lack of professionalism and the sheer indifference they saw. Ballistic evidence \u2013 this is shocking \u2013 was passed over by the RUC on the killing of another republican. The same gun used in that killing was used to kill Eddie Fullerton. There were four key suspects, but it would take a decade before An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na asked for them to be questioned. We now know that one of the suspects went on to be responsible for the massacres in Castlerock and Greysteel. He was a British military agent and a sectarian serial killer. That is what happens when there is a failure to follow the evidence, interview witnesses or have any sort of passion for this. The Fullerton family repeatedly had to have meetings with the Taoiseach\u2019s predecessor, Bertie Ahern, and with senior garda\u00ed. I challenge anyone to read the report by former Chief Superintendent Noel White. It is an utter disgrace and a shambles of a report that wilfully obstructed the truth that they knew and must have had in their possession. That legacy of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is a betrayal of the many decent, honourable members whom I have known all my life. They are good, honest and decent people but they were failed, for whatever reason, by senior people. We see it again in the case of Brian Stack. It is a sad case. Some day, I hope there will be a State apology for the family of Councillor Eddie Fullerton."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Emer Currie The Provisional IRA\u2019s violence was brutal, vicious, cowardly and futile. It included a daughter shot beside her parents after mass, families bombed on remembrance Sunday, a father chained into a vehicle carrying a bomb and Brian Stack, father of three, shot in the neck as he left a boxing contest. I feel angry for those robbed of their lives and families robbed of a future together. I feel angry that it was done in the name of a united Ireland. I wish as much energy went into providing answers for families over the years as went into trying to justify the unjustifiable. Mr. Stack served the State as a prison officer. His wife, Sheila, and her three young sons endured 18 months of his suffering before losing him. I commend the family\u2019s dignity and bravery. Austin has supported me from time to time on social media and, today, I want to show my solidarity to him and his family. Three Garda investigations have brought no one to justice. According to Austin, in media reports, a review identified 194 errors and omissions in the original investigation. Today\u2019s apology matters but the family must also receive the fullest possible account of what went wrong, including the circumstances surrounding the investigation. Austin has called on Sinn F\u00e9in to show moral leadership and basic humanity in helping to establish the truth. No family should have to plead for answers. No organisation should ask of others what it is not willing to do itself. Last night, the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill completed its passage through the House of Commons. It now goes to the House of Lords, which is a significant step towards implementing the joint framework agreed by both governments. We must advance our own legislation and ensure these arrangements deliver answers for families. Currently, however, there is no barrier to doing the right thing. An independent truth recovery process is not needed to do the right thing. All combatants should be giving maximum information to victims and survivors. Garda\u00ed yesterday appealed for men who were present 19 years ago at the murder of Paul Quinn. The Quinn family deserves truth. The McVeigh family still waits for the day they can give a Christian burial to Columba. They deserve information. All victims deserve truth and accountability, whoever was responsible. The Stack family deserves this apology, and I am so pleased to be here today. They also deserve the truth."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Tony McCormack I acknowledge Sheila Stack and her sons, Austin, Kieran and Oliver. For most of us, Brian Stack's murder is a chapter in our country's history, but for his family, it is not history. It is a husband who never came home, a father missing from the family table, from the birthdays, Christmases and all of those ordinary, yet precious, moments that make up a life together. No apology can ever give those moments back. Brian Stack was a public servant carrying out a difficult, dangerous job on behalf of this State. He deserved its protection and his family deserved justice when he was murdered. As a Member of this House, I want to associate myself with the Taoiseach's State apology and offer my own sincere apology to the Stack family. They deserved better from the institutions of the State and I am deeply sorry that they did not receive it. I want to acknowledge the extraordinary courage of the Stack family. For over four decades, through disappointment and unanswered questions, they never gave up seeking justice for a man they loved. That brings me to something I believe deeply. Anyone can do what is right when it is easy, when there is no personal cost and no consequences. When doing what is right is difficult, when the consequences are real, that is when the true measure of our character is revealed. That is courage, that is integrity, and that is the measure by which we should be judged. I could stand here and shout across the Chamber demanding answers, but what good is another political exchange to a family who have waited so long? Instead, I want to speak directly to anyone who knows the truth. There comes a time in our lives when we must take stock. We must look at the ledger of our lives and weigh the good we have done against the wrongs we have committed. In the stillness of the night, when the world falls silent and we are left alone with our conscience, we cannot hide from that reckoning. We cannot rewrite yesterday but we can still choose what we write tomorrow. To those who know the truth about Brian Stack's murder, I ask them to find the courage to make that choice today. I say to Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver that their husband and father served this country with courage and they have honoured his memory with their own courage. I hope today's apology brings some comfort, but more importantly, that it brings them closer to the truth and the justice they have sought for so long. I want them to know that the search for answers must not end here. Time may pass, memories may fade and generations may change but justice does not have an expiry date."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins Today is, first and foremost, about the Stack family. For more than four decades, the family of Brian Stack have carried an unimaginable burden. They lost a husband, a father and a public servant in the most tragic of circumstances. Since then, they have endured years of grief, uncertainty and a long search for answers. No words spoken in this Chamber today can undo that loss. No apology, however sincere, can bring Brian back to his family or restore the years that have been taken from them. However, acknowledging wrongdoing, recognising suffering and ensuring that the voices of victims and their families are heard matters. I want to pay tribute to the courage, dignity and determination shown by the Stack family throughout their long campaign. Despite all that they have endured, they have continued to seek truth, justice and accountability with remarkable strength. As Members of this House, regardless of political party, we owe it to the victims and their families to listen to them, respect their experience and ensure that they are never forgotten. Today's apology must be more than words. It must be a reflection on the failures that have caused hurt and frustration. It must also be a commitment that future generations of victims and their families will be treated with the respect, openness and support they deserve. The State cannot change the past but it can learn from it. It can acknowledge where people have been let down and can work to rebuild trust where it has been damaged. I hope today's apology to the Stack family provides some measure of recognition for the pain they have carried for so long. While nothing can erase their loss, I hope it demonstrates that their voices have been heard and that Brian's memory continues to matter to this nation. On behalf of my constituents and my party, Independent Ireland, I extend my deepest sympathy to the Stack family and pay tribute to their perseverance and dignity. May the memory of Brian continue to be honoured and may today's proceedings help to ensure that victims and their families remain at the centre of our consideration in the years ahead."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sean Fleming","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Fleming.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Fleming.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sean Fleming Today is a very significant day for the Stack family. They have waited a very long time for the State to give a formal apology arising from the murder of Brian Stack, who was a well-regarded chief prison officer in Portlaoise for many years. To put it in a local context, since the foundation of the State, Portlaoise Prison has housed the most difficult people who were convicted of criminal offences. Anybody who does not appreciate the work of prison officers does not fully understand that they are in with these people, minding them and making sure they are kept inside the prison walls. They do this on behalf of society to make sure that we are safe. There is a community in Portlaoise of prison officers and generations of prison officers. Not only do we have Portlaoise Prison, but we also have the Midlands Prison. Side by side, they probably amount to the biggest prison complex in the country. There are over 1,000 prison officers in there today and there would be over 1,000 inmates in the prison as we speak. It is important that we have prisons for people who have shown total disregard for the law and that every effort is made by the State to protect prison officers, who have a very difficult job. It is a job that is carried out behind high walls, which is why the public does not fully appreciate what is involved in the work that prison officers do. It is a very significant day for the Stack family. The Government has decided to make a formal apology on behalf of the State to the family of prison officer, Brian Stack. Why is the Government making this apology? The apology is for the mistakes, shortcomings and lack of due diligence by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na on several occasions over several years and its failure to carry out a proper investigation into who was responsible for the execution of Brian Stack. It behoves the State to continue the investigation. There may be information available that can lead to the proper identification of the persons involved. I know that Austin Stack and his brothers have met people and I am sure there are people out there who can provide more information. I ask that the State, which has made an apology, do everything possible to bring to justice those involved in that fatal shooting in Dublin so many years ago. I would also ask those people who know about this to come forward in conscience because it is never too late to do the right thing. Even though many years have passed, it is not too late. The failed Garda investigation is an embarrassment to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. It was looked at on so many occasions and it was a systemic failure. It was not just a failure by individual garda\u00ed. It does not appear that there was a genuine concern and determination to bring the perpetrator to justice. Maybe there are reasons as to why that might be the case that we do not know in this House. However, there is never a wrong time to do the right thing. Sheila Stack is originally a Donoghue from Portlaoise. She comes from a well-known family and I have known her for many years. She is a lovely lady. When we think about Brian Stack, we also have to think of Sheila, who had to take on the role of mother and father to their three sons, Austin, Oliver and Kieran. That was not an easy job and her hands were full, as we can understand, but she was never interviewed by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. People in the prison who may have had information, including work colleagues of Brian Stack, were never interviewed. There were probably prisoners in Portlaoise Prison at the time who were aware of who was involved in this. These are examples of the total failure of the work by the Garda at that time. One would hope that situations like that would never recur in relation to any serious murder case like this. Bear in mind that he was the only prison officer murdered during the troubled times. It is easy for us to think about this, but people should realise how difficult life was for the Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na at the time dealing with the Troubles, and for the prison officers dealing with the trouble-makers when they were convicted because they had their links with outside colleagues and things continued. I compliment the Taoiseach and the wider Government for taking on board the great campaign by the Stack family. They family are to be praised for continuing this work. Other families may have given up years ago. It shows their determination, and I think it came down to genes. Austin has been a distinguished member of the Prison Service for a long number of years. It shows that these things run in families. They run deep and do not go away. It is important that the Government made this apology today. I think it will go some way, but it does not fully solve the mystery of who carried out the murder. I ask that people do this. It is a good day for the family, but it is a very poignant and sad day. All I can say to Sheila and the three children is that I know Brian is up there looking down on us. He is proud of you for working so hard and tirelessly in your campaign with the Government, which has rightly issued this formal apology on behalf of the State."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Murnane O'Connor","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Jennifer-Murnane-O'Connor.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor) I, too, begin by extending my deepest sympathy to Sheila and her sons, Austin, Kieran and Oliver, who are in the Public Gallery. We are neighbours, as Deputy Fleming has said, in Graiguecullen in Laois. I commend the Stack family for their tireless campaign to uncover the truth of Brian's murder. Their determination, courage and resilience deserve our utmost respect. It should never have fallen to a family already devastated by the loss of a husband and father to fight for so long to obtain the answers and information they deserved. I commend them for keeping Brian's memory and legacy alive and for ensuring that his life and the circumstances of his death are not forgotten. I warmly welcome today's State apology and acknowledge fully the serious failings in this case. This apology was long overdue, but I am glad it has been delivered today. I commend the Taoiseach, Miche\u00e1l Martin, for acknowledging the State's failures and apologising to the Stack family. Brian Stack was a young man in the prime of his life going about an ordinary evening attending a boxing event at the National Stadium. His family have lived with the consequences ever since. State apologies are rare, and while they are not given lightly, they are sometimes necessary to acknowledge grave wrongs and failures. Today's apology is one such occasion. It cannot undo the pain, restore Brian's life or erase the years of uncertainty endured by his family, but it is an important recognition of what went wrong and of the injustice that the Stack family have experienced. I hope today brings Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver some acknowledgement and comfort that they have shown extraordinary strength in ensuring that Brian's name and legacy endure. They deserve the answers, they deserve accountability, and today, at long last, their suffering and campaign have been publicly acknowledged."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn I also welcome the State apology to the family of Brian Stack. Brian Stack was shot in the back of the head by the IRA in 1983. Brian was a loved husband and father of three children. His killing was devastating for his family and friends, and no greater disaster can befall a young family than the killing of a parent. Ireland was experiencing difficult times during the Troubles. The North was in convulsions, but even under these heartbreaking scenarios, the killing of Brian Stack shocked people across the Thirty-two Counties. I understand that Brian was the only prison officer killed during the Troubles. The victims and survivors of these shocking killings should be entitled to justice and truth. This is especially true for anybody who was working in the service of the State. The fact that justice and truth have been denied to the Stack family is absolutely wrong. The primary responsibility for this lies with the people who pulled the trigger and with the IRA. Nationalists and republicans rightly fight for truth for the hundreds of nationalists and republicans who were killed by the British state, but equally there is a responsibility on the IRA and republicans to make sure that people who were killed at their hands receive truth and justice as well. There is an incredible responsibility that lies with the State, given that Brian was in the service of the State. That there is no real truth recovery process in the State is a serious mistake, given how long time has travelled since the Good Friday Agreement. That there were three separate Garda investigations into Brian's killing is incredible. It is unbelievable that so many investigations have happened. A review into the first investigation showed that there were 194 errors and omissions. There was physical evidence and that physical evidence has not been used to facilitate a proper investigation. That is outrageous. It is important for the State to look at itself in relation to this and make sure that it can never happen again. I understand that the Stacks have looked for access to the review carried out into this but that that access was denied. That is also deeply problematic. Cuirim f\u00e1ilte mh\u00f3r roimh an leithsc\u00e9al seo \u00f3n Rialtas. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 d\u00e9anach. I nd\u00e1ir\u00edre, ba cheart go mbeadh s\u00e9 ann deich mbliana \u00f3 shin. Ba cheart go mbeadh sc\u00e9al agus nuacht f\u00f3s le f\u00e1il \u00f3 phoblacht\u00e1naigh sa t\u00edr seo mar gheall ar cad a tharla ar an l\u00e1 cinni\u00fanach sin agus cad a tharla do Brian."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan) I begin my remarks by expressing my sincere apology as Minister for justice to Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver - the Stack family - for the various failings documented by the Taoiseach in relation to the Garda investigation into the murder of chief officer Brian Stack. Brian Stack served the State during a time of great challenge and as Sheila, Austin, Kieran and Oliver have vividly described, his life was characterised by a belief in public service. His callous and cowardly murder by the Provisional IRA in 1984 in connection with his role in the Irish Prison Service at Portlaoise Prison was an attack both on the State and the spirit of public service that Brian Stack embodied. Today, we remember Brian Stack not only as a victim of the Troubles, but alongside those members of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the Defence Forces who, as public servants, made the ultimate sacrifice in service of the State during this time. As the Taoiseach has rightly said, this public service remains greatly valued. Regretfully, Brian Stack and his family have been let down by the State, and this has compounded the trauma they have experienced at the loss of a husband and a father. As Minister for justice, I am truly sorry for this. Although the Garda authorities have assured me that their investigation remains open and that they continue to actively pursue live lines of inquiry in this regard, the failure to document potentially critical decisions during the original investigation in 1983 and 1984, and the loss of crucial evidence since then, have undoubtedly hampered the Garda's efforts to bring those responsible to justice. As time has passed since the Good Friday Agreement, these failings have made it impossible for the Stack family to move on, as they have explained to many of us in this Chamber. It is also clear that, both during the original investigation and in the years following, many of the failings for which the Government is apologising today arose from how An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na communicated with the Stack family and kept them informed in the course of the criminal investigation. Although family liaison as we know it today in respect of serious crime was not yet an established concept in policing in Ireland during the 1980s, this cannot excuse or explain the many gaps and failures in communication that have taken place since then. It is difficult to reconcile aspects of what the Stack family were told about the investigation at various times in the 42 years since Brian Stack\u2019s murder with what they have uncovered themselves about those events. It is they who have been the constant in the pursuit of justice for Brian Stack and we owe them our gratitude for this, as well as our apology. The events of recent weeks in Portadown remind us that the peace process on this island is ongoing. The conflict may have ended formally in 1998 but, for the bereaved and the injured, in particular, it remains a daily feature of their lives. Some of the measures that it took to secure that peace were painful for them to witness, and I know that this was the case for the Stack family, but those measures were accepted in a growing spirit of reconciliation and optimism for the future, which contrasts so starkly with the nihilism behind the murder of Brian Stack by the Provisional IRA. The Stack family lived in peace before Brian's murder and were respected in their community in Laois and they have remained committed to the pursuit of justice, truth and accountability by lawful means since then in the knowledge that to open the door to the contemplation of any alternative would be to justify the pathway taken by those who did harm onto them and to others. Austin Stack was correct when he spoke of his mother, Sheila Stack, and the other bereaved like her who had suffered both in the conflict and in the peace that followed, as the real peacemakers. Like Sheila Stack and her sons, we have to search for what is in our own hands to contribute to reconciliation and to address the legacy of the conflict on these islands. I have spoken before in this House about the need for contrition as we seek collectively to do so. As Austin Stack has set out, he and his family have faced many obstacles in their long journey to seek justice, truth and accountability for their beloved father and husband, Brian, and today, we as a Government are rightly apologising for the failings of the State and for the profound impact that these have had on the Stack family. Sadly, this is but one side of the coin. The killers of Brian Stack remain at large, and this is a matter of deep regret to me. Only they can answer for pulling the trigger that night in March 1983. There are those with knowledge of these dark events that continue to deny this and their role, while the unlawful organisation responsible has only made partial admissions to its role in Brian Stack's murder and the perverse reasoning behind this. The House will already be aware of this Government's commitment to addressing the legacy of the Troubles and the implementation of the joint framework on legacy agreed with the British Government. Fundamentally, this is about delivering truth, accountability and, where possible, justice to families like the Stack family. The House will have the opportunity to debate the legislative measures we are proposing to deliver this in the coming months through the legacy of the Troubles Bill. Today, however, I call on anyone with knowledge of the events leading to the murder of Brian Stack to show contrition and the values of peace embodied by the Stack family throughout their lives, and give that knowledge to the authorities in recognition of the pain that the Stack family continue to endure."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Leas-Cheann Comhairle That concludes our statements. I again thank the Stack family for being present during the statements. I join with all of the other speakers in what they have said. As the Minister has said, the killers of Brian Stack are still at large and anyone who has knowledge should come forward. I thank all the Members who contributed."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar fionra\u00ed ar 2.53 p.m. agus cuireadh t\u00fas leis ar\u00eds ar 3.55 p.m."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Sitting suspended at 2.53 p.m. and resumed at 3.55 p.m."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"State Apology to the Family of the Late Brian Stack: Statements"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/63","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/63\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage (Resumed) (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage","counts":{"speechCount":194,"speakerCount":49},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy 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McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Fitzmaurice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Fitzmaurice.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Michael-Fitzmaurice.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Defence (Deputy Helen McEntee) I move: \u201cThat the Bill be now read a Second Time.\u201d I am pleased to present the Bill to the House today. At the outset, I want to again acknowledge the members of our Defence Forces and thank them for the work they do in keeping us safe at home, but in particular, given this debate, to acknowledge, recognise and thank them for their significant contribution to peacekeeping missions for many decades. I have set out in recent weeks, both in this House and in the Seanad just last week, why the changes contained in this Bill are necessary, but it is important to do so again today. It is well known that the triple lock is the legal mechanism that governs the deployment of our Defence Forces personnel overseas as part of an international force. We currently require a UN Security Council mandate, Government approval and D\u00e1il approval to deploy any number of Defence Forces personnel overseas as part of that international force. Whether it is one person, 20 people or 50 people, any person overseas requires all three. Clear examples of international forces are the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, UNIFIL, Operation IRINI, which we have had to leave, and Operation Althea. These are the types of missions where our troops are currently engaging in peacekeeping, peace enforcement and force protection. What is also the case at the moment is that any one of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council can decide to withdraw its support for any of the current UN peacekeeping missions or, as we have seen over many years, can prevent a new peacekeeping mission from being established. To spell that out even more bluntly, France, the UK, China, the US and Russia currently decide and have a role in where we take part and how we contribute to certain international missions. Russia, a country that is bombing, murdering and maiming innocent civilians every single day in Ukraine and that is attacking European member states, including Germany, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland, all in the last few months, has a say over which peacekeeping missions we can send our troops to or where we can keep our troops. This is what goes to the heart of the debate. That five countries across the world, or any country, can have any say in where we send our troops is crazy. We need to change this. The changes contained in this Bill are necessary if we want to ensure that, as a sovereign country, we have the independence and ability to make our own decisions about where we deploy our troops. Most importantly, these changes are necessary if we want Ireland to continue being a force for good in the world, which I believe we all do. Without the independence to make these decisions, we are more limited than ever before. We can do less to defend human rights around the world, and we are reliant on the political decisions of others when making these important decisions. No other country in the world has this mechanism. No other country in the world allows another country or a superpower to decide for it. The alternative is that we maintain the status quo and wait for one of the permanent five to withdraw its support for further UN missions that we are a part of. Again, I think this is getting lost in the debate. The question is asked why we are not exploring UN-mandated missions that currently exist, or why we are not looking to expand and increase our numbers there. Of course we are. However, there is nothing to stop any one of the permanent five members from withdrawing its support for any of those missions at any given time in the same way they have with Lebanon and Operation IRINI. The choice here is simple. The Government and I, as Minister, working with the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, and many others, want to fix what is broken. Importantly, we want to ensure that the right to decide where we send our troops remains firmly with the democratically elected representatives of this country, not with Vladimir Putin or anybody else. The changes we are proposing are consistent with the principles of the UN Charter and international law. The changes in this legislation mean that legal, military and policy advice will support any decision about future overseas deployments, and changes proposed in this legislation will not in any way affect our long-standing policy of military neutrality. There is a reason that at no stage in our country\u2019s history have we enshrined our neutrality or the triple lock in the Constitution. Successive Governments and successive decisions have all recognised that, as a country, we need to remain responsive and agile to the world around us because we are not immune to risk. Putting neutrality in our Constitution would undoubtedly prevent us from engaging in any meaningful way with other countries on our security or on defence matters, and that is not who we are. We are a neutral country, but we are also a country that contributes to peace and security on these islands and further afield. Those two are not mutually exclusive. I have been clear from the outset that I want to engage with colleagues who want to work constructively, as I know they do. I spoke with many of them when we attended the RACO yearly event in the last 24 hours. I want to work with colleagues who want to support the role of our Defence Forces overseas and who want to ensure that Ireland has legislation that allows us to continue to contribute positively to peace. Unfortunately, we have heard few meaningful solutions from the Opposition in recent weeks and months when it comes to ensuring that Ireland is the country that decides where we send our troops, not Russia, America, China, Britain or France. There have been no serious answers to the questions of what we do about the Security Council veto. I put it to the Opposition that there is nothing neutral about allowing another country to decide where we send our troops. Allowing other countries to dictate where we send our troops simply allows superpowers to have their interests reflected in what should be Irish decisions. The triple lock is not working. It does not reflect the changed global environment that we live in. The changes in this legislation aim to address this in a manner that will allow us to deploy our personnel in defence of the principles of the UN Charter and international law. The primary purpose of this Bill is to consolidate with amendments the existing provisions of the Defence Acts 1954 to 2015 concerning the dispatch of members of the Defence Forces for services outside of the State. Most significantly, it reforms what we have all known as the triple lock mechanism, providing the legal mechanisms governing the dispatch of our Defence Forces on peacekeeping missions as part of an international United Nations force. The Bill also updates the other purposes outside service as part of an international force for which Defence Forces personnel may be deployed overseas. In particular, it provides expressly for the evacuation of Irish citizens from unstable or dangerous security environments. We have seen an increase in these kinds of environments and situations. It also provides for military close protection duties when the President or members of the Government are travelling abroad in a potentially hostile environment or area of conflict. Recent years, weeks and months have demonstrated why we need these capabilities and why there should be a clear legislative basis for them. The Bill also deals with another area of important reform. It amends the Defence Act 1954 to provide for the suspension of members of the Defence Forces, giving effect to the recommendations contained in the report prepared by Mr. Peter S. Ward SC on the management of Defence Forces personnel charged with or convicted of serious criminal offences, which was published in December 2024. These provisions are an important part of the continuing transformation of the defence culture of our Defence Forces. I am confident that Deputies across this House will recognise that these are sensible and indeed necessary provisions. I want to touch again on the crux of our debate. I will give some concrete examples because people at home want to understand what we are talking about and what it means to currently have the triple lock and to potentially reform it. Operation Irini provides one clear example. In May, the UN authorisation underpinning Operation Irini, which is an EU naval operation in the Mediterranean supporting the implementation of the United Nations embargo on Libya, was not renewed. Our four defence personnel had to withdraw immediately. The EU mission itself continued. Personnel from the 23 other participating countries remained. Ireland had to leave because our domestic legislation required the UN authorisation. The Irish Government continued to support their participation and our personnel were making valuable contributions, which I know from speaking to three of them a day before they had to leave, but our law required them to withdraw. This is the reality that we need to address. For many years our own troops contributed to this operation and we gained from that operation, but because of a decision of another country, one of the five permanent members, we had to leave while every other member state stayed. While many people may not be familiar with Operation Irini, everyone is aware of Ireland's peacekeeping role in Lebanon. Irish personnel have served with UNIFIL for almost five decades. Generation after generation of Irish soldier has served there. The contribution of our peacekeepers has defined the history of our Defence Forces for the past 50 years. UNIFIL's current mandate provides for the conclusion of its operations by 31 December this year. Without reform of our legislation, our ability to contribute meaningfully to peacekeeping in Lebanon in the way that we have done for decades will be severely constrained. While we are considering and agreed just last week at the EU Foreign Affairs Council a role that will develop and play out in Lebanon after UNIFIL, following proposals which Ireland was involved in, under our existing legislation there would be significant limitations on the contribution Ireland could make to a mission that did not have the necessary UN mandate. Specifically, with the role that we currently have, our members would not be able to take part in many similar missions, in positions that they are trained for, because of the triple lock. This is a clear, real, live reason we need to change and to reform our triple lock. It is absolutely essential. I am committed to working with all Members in this House to find a way forward so that we can continue to support our troops and, most importantly, make our own decisions about where we send our troops and do not allow other countries to make those decisions for us."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Deputy Thomas Byrne) The general scheme of this Bill has been subject to considerable scrutiny. In line with normal practices, it was referred to the Oireachtas committee for pre-legislative scrutiny. The committee members worked well on that, and a wide range of views were expressed. The Government has listened to those views and to the stakeholders who participated in the process. We have considered the recommendations and we have taken a number of them on board. The Minister will be required to make an annual report on overseas deployments available to the Oireachtas. Written notification will be provided to the relevant joint committee where a contingent of 50 or fewer are deployed and the purposes for which a contingent may be deployed as part of an international force will explicitly include peace enforcement, as was mentioned by the joint committee. Changes have also been made to the provisions concerning the suspension of members of the Defence Forces and the dismissal of officers, ensuring that fair procedures apply, and that the circumstances in which suspension or dismissal may arise are clearly set out in the Bill. We will also bring forward an amendment on Committee Stage to ensure that the provisions of the Army Pensions Act apply to members of the Defence Forces deployed outside the State as part of an international force. Let us go through the Bill. Sections 1 to 3 in Part 1 are standard sections. Section 3 provides for the repeal of the existing legislation concerning the dispatch for service of members of the Defence Forces outside the State, which is the Defence (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1960 and the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006. Section 4 is really the crux of it. It amends section 2 of the Defence Act 1954 to include a definition for the term \"relevant international force\", which replaces the term \"International United Nations Force\" as defined in the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006. This is the change. We are changing from \"International United Nations Force\" to \"relevant international force\". The insertion of \"relevant international force\" is what the reform of the triple lock actually means in practice. It means that the Defence Forces can continue to participate in UN-led or UN-organised missions. If the United Nations Security Council changes its mind and starts to authorise new peacekeeping missions, we can still take part and that mandate will do us. It will also allow the Defence Forces to participate in missions organised or led by, for example, the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, OSCE, the EU or other regional arrangements. The participation of the Defence Forces in any such mission would only occur where it operates in a manner consistent with the Charter of the United Nations and international law. That is what we are voting on - not the histrionics from the Opposition, not the exaggerations, not war and not neutrality. This is exactly what we are voting on. Sections 5 to 10 and 13 to 20 provide for consequential amendments to the Defence Act 1954, necessitated by the repeal of existing enactments dating back to 1916 to 2006. In the case of a number of these consequential amendments, references to the repealed enactments are replaced with references to the relevant new sections of the Defence Act 1954. Section 7 applies to officers and section 11 applies to enlisted persons and will amend the Defence Act 1954 to provide for the suspension in certain circumstances of members of the Defence Forces. These proposals come from the Ward report, which was mentioned by the Minister. The section sets out the circumstances in which a member of the Defence Forces may be suspended and the procedures to be followed, including the right to make representations. The section also enables the Minister to make regulations pertaining to suspensions. Section 8 amends the provisions as set out in section 50 of the Defence Act relating to the dismissal of an officer of the Defence Forces. The reasons that may give rise to the dismissal are that the officer has been convicted of a criminal offence, that the officer has engaged in conduct that has brought discredit to the Defence Forces, or that the dismissal is necessary for the purpose of safeguarding national security. Section 9, which is about officers, and section 12, which is about enlisted persons, amend the Defence Act 1954, again in line with recommendations from the Ward report, to require a member of the Defence Forces to inform his or her commanding officer if the member is charged with a criminal offence. The member will also be required to keep the commanding officer informed of any significant developments relating to the charge, including the dates of court appearances. Section 21 inserts a new Part XIV into the Defence Act 1954. The new Part XIV, which consists of six new sections, consolidates the provisions relating to the service outside the State by a contingent or member of the Defence Forces which are currently situated within the Defence (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1960 and the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006. The new section 336 of the Defence Act 1954 relates to the dispatch of a contingent or member of the Defence Forces for service outside the State as part of a \"relevant international force\". This is one of the central provisions of the Bill. The legislation expressly provides that any dispatch of a contingent or member, as part of a relevant international force, which I have already described the definition of, shall be subject to that international force operating \"for the purpose of peace-keeping, peace-enforcement or conflict prevention consistent with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations\". That is what we are voting on. Subsection (2) of the new section 336 provides that a contingent of the Defence Forces will not be dispatched, as part of a relevant international force, other than with the prior approval of the Government, and, subject to certain exceptions as set out in this section, only if a resolution approving the dispatch has been passed by the D\u00e1il. Subsection (5) of the new section 336 sets out the circumstances in which a contingent of the Defence Forces may be dispatched outside the State for service as part of a relevant international force without a D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann resolution. The circumstances are that \"the contingent consists of not more than 50 members of the Defence Forces\", or the contingent is being dispatched for the purposes of replacing, in whole or in part, a contingent that was previously approved for dispatch. The Defence (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1960 currently allows for the dispatch of a contingent of not more than 12 members of the Defence Forces without a resolution approving the dispatch having been passed by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann. This is one of the key mistakes people make regarding the triple lock. The specification of the 12 members and the 50 members has nothing to do with the United Nations or a mandate. One member of the Defence Forces going abroad previously had to have a UN mandate and now will have to be part of a relevant international force. The 12 members and the 50 members relates to D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann approval, and that is the legislation and the law. The increase to 50 in the number of personnel that may be dispatched without a D\u00e1il resolution - they will still need to be part of a relevant international force - will allow for the deployment of a number constituting a military platoon with support elements, such as communications, transport and other support elements. The new section 337 of the Defence Act 1954 deals with the dispatch of a contingent or member of the Defence Forces for service outside the State for purposes other than service as part of a relevant international force. The following new purposes are included: \"undertaking civilian evacuation operations in response to an actual or potential disaster or emergency\" and \"undertaking military close protection duties or military security duties\". The provision relating to civilian evacuation operations is particularly important. We live in a time of geopolitical instability. When Irish citizens are caught in high-risk or volatile environments overseas, Ireland must have the capacity to respond. Our Defence Forces need a clear legal basis to do the job we may ask them to do in undertaking civilian evacuation. This is why the Bill makes express provision in the Defence Acts for the deployment of members of the Defence Forces outside the State for those purposes. The term \"military close protection duties\" relates to the provision of \"personal security duties carried out in an actual or potential hostile environment or area of conflict\" in respect of persons including the President and members of the Government, as specified in subsection (5) of section 337. The reference to \"military security duties\" is intended to cover the provision of security support to Irish embassies in high-risk or volatile security environments. Any dispatch of members of the Defence Forces under this section will be with the prior approval, and on the authority of, the Government. However, in line with an existing provision of the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006, the Government will be authorised to give general approval for the dispatch of the Defence Forces for any purpose set out in subsection (1), other than dispatch for civilian evacuation operations, or the provision of military close protection or military security duties. Dispatch for these purposes will require Government approval on a case-by-case basis. We also have a new section 338, which is a very interesting one as well. This provides that \"A State ship or service aircraft may, with the prior approval of the Government, be deployed outside the State for the purpose of participating in international activities to counter drug trafficking by sea and air\". This is primarily intended to facilitate greater participation by Ireland in the Maritime Analysis and Operations Centre (Narcotics), MAOC(N), of which Ireland is a founder member. If we look back at the record, we will see that a previous Minister for Defence said we would provide equipment for this intergovernmental or interstate operation. We were not able to do so because of the triple lock, even though it relates to drug trafficking. This will give us legislation that will allow us to do that. This is really important for us. We are a founder member of the centre. They asked us for equipment in 2017, but we could not because of the existing legislation even though we are a founder member of the centre and it is about drug trafficking."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Minister of State. Everybody present has your speech. I appreciate he has more to go through."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne I am happy to go through other sections, if people have questions, because there are some others to go through."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire Earlier today at the RACO conference, the Minister suggested that people had put their trust in politicians to bring in changes in particular to the triple lock neutrality protection. That is despite the fact that no reference whatsoever was made to it in the Minister's own party manifesto. It is despite the fact that the Fianna F\u00e1il manifesto merely spoke about reform, rather than ending it. Most of all, it is despite the fact that commitments were twice given to the Irish people in the Nice and Lisbon treaty referendums that the triple lock would be a permanent feature and a protection for our neutrality. When people went to the polls on those occasions, many of them changed their minds from the first referendum to the second on the basis of what Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael presented as being binding commitments. Now, they say that the triple lock has nothing to do with neutrality, even though we are literally amending the parts of our Defence Acts that relate to deploying Irish personnel as part of an international force. For a long time it was the policy of the Government that the triple lock was central to neutrality. I will quote Miche\u00e1l Martin. I think he is sick of being quoted but it is no harm to say once again that he said that \"the triple lock is at the core of our neutrality\" and spoke about a Fine Gael \"obsession\". I will also quote from the Minister's departmental website, which states: Ireland\u2019s policy of military neutrality has long been an important strand of our independent foreign policy and is characterised by non-membership of military alliances or common or mutual defence arrangements. That is uncontroversial, but more interestingly it says: Ireland\u2019s traditional policy of military neutrality is well understood by EU partners and codified in the Protocol attached to the Lisbon Treaty. That is the Lisbon treaty that the Irish people voted for on the basis of that protocol. According to the Minister's own departmental website, the triple lock is central to our neutrality and the protocol is fundamentally premised on the triple lock. The Minister knows perfectly well the Irish people want to keep our neutrality and that they want to keep the triple lock, and she knows that she does not have a mandate for this legislation. If she was so certain of her position, given such past commitments in particular, and if she is so certain of this argument she makes in terms of sovereignty, she should put it to the people. The reason she refuses to do so is because she knows it will be rejected. The Minister cannot very well put such store in arguments around sovereignty and pretend such votes did not really take place. Indeed, she is trying to truncate the debate in here. It would be perfectly normal and in order to have this debate continue into the following week. There is nothing stopping the Minister adjourning this debate at the end of this evening's part, but the reality is that she knows there are many within Government, particularly in Fianna F\u00e1il, who have serious reservations about this Bill, because they are proud of the historical record of peacekeeping and of multilateralism, and they see Fine Gael, Miche\u00e1l Martin and the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, rushing to get rid of it. The Minister is trying to keep a tight rein on this debate. The Minister tells us that the world is changing. That is not disputed. The world is undoubtedly changing. We see the profound instability in this world, with Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, the continued Israeli occupation of Gaza and settler violence in the West Bank, the US and Israeli war with Iran, the Sudanese war, and now the conflict between the Houthis and Saudi Arabia. The response to this volatility should not be to cast aside the protections that we have. The Government proposes to dip its toes. It should be wary that the tides are very strong. What the Government proposes to do is risky, reckless and foolish. It puts Irish Governments in the future at risk of considerable pressure for deployments - of what kind, we do not know. Before I return to the triple lock itself, I will briefly state that it is important that this legislation is also dealing with disciplinary issues and suspensions. I have no objection in principle to this. I acknowledge that changes have been made to the general scheme. That is welcome, but they require additional consideration. We will engage with the amendment the Minister of State has mentioned. It is the first reference we have heard to it. We will engage with that as it comes forward. There have been a lot of myths in relation to this debate and it is important to take them one by one. The first, is in relation to the constant argument about the veto. The reality is, in the triple lock, neutrality protection exists. It exists in the Seville declaration, particularly at Ireland's request, but fundamentally it exists in the Defence Acts. It exists in Acts of these Houses. That is where the triple lock exists. It is the threshold and the standard the Oireachtas has set for the deployment of Irish troops so that it has a UN mandate and that it has a strong grounding in international law. I too acknowledge the very proud record of Irish peacekeepers who have served with distinction, who have brought great pride to Ireland and who have enhanced the reputation of Ireland internationally. I also acknowledge the fact many personnel lost their lives and were severely injured during their service. Those peacekeepers have done us proud. They did so under a UN mandate. There are currently ten other UN peacekeeping missions, aside from UNIFIL, and that is even before we go into the upwards of a dozen other missions supported by UN Security Council resolutions for certain activities and UN mandates. There is not a shortage of locations to deploy Irish personnel to but the Government is not interested in that; it is even exploring it. Right now, all the Government's eggs are in this basket and the deployments it proposes to undertake outside of a UN mandate. The Government has also attempted to suggest the triple lock constrains us in so many different ways regarding our personnel abroad. The triple lock specifically relates to being part of an international force. The reality is that it does not, and never has, prevented us from, for example, postings outside the State, secondments, training, ceremonial duties, monitoring observation, reconnaissance and fact-finding, inspecting and evaluation of equipment, undertaking military close protection or military security duty duties, undertaking humanitarian tasks, evacuation and the protection of Irish citizens. The Minister proposed to clarify that in the legislation. That is fine. It looked clear enough to me in the 2006 Act but if she wishes to clarify that, that is fine. Ultimately, that is not what this legislation is about. If the Government had proposed legislation that did solely that, I would have no objection. Ultimately, the Government is using these arguments as cover to get rid of the triple lock. The Government has also attempted, at times, to connect getting rid of the triple lock with investing in our Defence Forces, but it is this and previous Governments that have failed to invest. We should have a Government that is strong on neutrality and strong on defence. This Government is neither. We must properly resource the Defence Forces by rebuilding the Naval Service, strengthening air and maritime surveillance and developing adequate radar capabilities. Neutrality does not mean being defenceless. It also does not mean dependence and reliance on others. The weakness in our defence has been created by decades of underinvestment by Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael. Instead of fixing that failure, the Government prefers closer alignment with military structures of NATO states. We read recently that the Government is directing officials to progress Irish participation as an observer in the joint expeditionary force, JEF+, which puts this in a concerning context, on top of the fact there was a deployment of a British warship reportedly during the Irish Presidency's hosting of the European Defence Ministers' meeting at the request of the Irish Government, which has also raised serious concerns. We should invest in our Defence Forces rather than becoming dependent and reliant on neighbours, particularly NATO member states. It would be more in the Government's line if it was serious about defence, to address the delayed timelines in the Commission on the Defence Forces report, perhaps, most of all, to meet the needs of the Defence Forces' greatest assets - the men and women of the Defence Forces. As the Minister heard at the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, conference, officers were rostered to work during that very Ministers' meeting and not paid an allowance despite the fact they were working around the clock. The very people we are relying on did not get that allowance. This is a matter of basic respect. We have Defence Forces personnel not being paid for the work they are doing because there is no way of recording overtime and we have the issue of the inadequate cadet pay. I urge the Minister, Deputy Chambers, to stop blocking the appointment of an adjudicator to the Defence Forces scheme and stop delaying the processing of local bargaining schemes under the previous national pay agreement. The European Economic and Social Committee has found against the Government for its failure to properly pay our Defence Forces and abide by the working time directive. The Minister needs to direct her Department to fix this. That would be far more in her line than getting rid of the triple lock. Neutrality has been a strength for Ireland. It is a clear-eyed assessment of how Ireland can best play a role in this world. We enjoy a unique position, being seen by countries of the global south as having overcome conflict and a history of colonialism but also having strong connections of history, language and family with countries such as the United States, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Britain, as well as being an EU country. It gives us an outsized level of influence but this has been allied to and buttressed by our military neutrality and our support for the multilateral system. We are a small nation. We will never be a major military power but neutrality allows us to create a place in the world not swept along by one or other of the tides of the great powers. We are well able to stand on our own two feet. This illustrates all the more why neutrality is vitally important at this time. The Government's attempts to get rid of the triple lock are foolish and reckless and we should oppose them at every step."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Crowe.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n Crowe Let us be crystal-clear: defending Irish neutrality does not mean turning our backs on the world. It means pursuing peace through diplomacy, supporting humanitarian efforts, standing up for international law and refusing to become entangled in military arrangements that compromise our independence. The people of Ireland have a legitimate interest in these decisions and any fundamental change to the triple lock deserves serious public debate, transparency and democratic consent, not a rushed legislative process. One of the concerns with the Bill, and not just specifically from a policy perspective, are the powers given to Government alone regarding the dispatch of Defence Forces personnel for purposes other than service as part of a relevant international force. The Government may decide to send advisers overseas without D\u00e1il approval. If Irish soldiers are to advise the military of any other foreign power, the D\u00e1il must be consulted in order to judge the suitability of who we are advising. Not only is this for the purpose of maintaining our international reputation, for integrity and credibility, but military advisers have all too often in the past been a precursor or a catalyst for involvement in a much larger conflict. Let us consider the Americans in Vietnam or the Soviets in Afghanistan. We cannot allow the government of the day to simply pick and choose who it thinks we should be advising or aiding in military matters. Not every so-called ally or partner has a reputation for upholding international law or defending human rights. We must be careful who we call on our Defence Forces to not only stand beside but work with to build up their military capabilities. I have a similar concern about undertaking reconnaissance missions without the approval of the D\u00e1il. Reconnaissance by its very nature means the proximity to or close contact with a potentially hostile presence. How far could the definition of \"reconnaissance\" be stretched by a Government? Could the cavalry troopers be sent to reconnaissance in force, bringing them into direct conflict with an opposing force? Could the rangers wing be sent to conduct an operating under the guise of a special reconnaissance mission? These two liberties given to the Government are in stark contrast to the other provisions in section 337 and I worry that they are wide open to abuse. This is something we must tighten up as a matter of urgency. There can be no room for semantics when it comes the dispatch of Irish troops to potentially conflict-ridden zones. The Government was very sure to explicitly define itself as eligible to receive close protection by the Defence Forces so it can be quite clear when it needs to be. The Government must scrap this scheme to repeal the triple lock. Ireland's contribution to international security should continue to be rooted in peacekeeping, neutrality and respect for the United Nations. For generations, Ireland has built a profound reputation as a nation committed to peace, diplomacy and the peaceful resolution of conflict. We should be proud of that tradition, defend it and pass it on to future generations."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh The Ministers might not think the triple lock is something the public is engaged in but I assure them they are critically engaged. The vast majority are requesting their public representatives to vote against this Bill and that is why Sinn F\u00e9in will vote against it. Every time the triple lock is talked about there is what is like an annoyance or a frustration with the Irish people that they do not get it. There is an anger coming from the Government-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne There is not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh -----as to why people would question the triple lock or what they want. One person sums this up really well. Our neutrality is a core part of who we are. For decades, it has allowed our Defence Forces to do incredible independent, peacekeeping and humanitarian work across the world without being dragged into global conflicts. Stripping away the requirement of a UN mandate takes away the essential checks and balances that protect our troops and independence. Pushing a massive change like this through without proper public debate is completely unacceptable. If the Government truly believes our foreign policy needs to be altered, then it must put that question directly to the people of Ireland. A decision that alters our national identity cannot be made by a simple D\u00e1il vote. At the very least, we must have a national referendum. Sinn F\u00e9in and I completely oppose these attempts to abolish the triple lock. The Government will say that it has nothing to do with our neutrality. Well, then, all the Irish people are wrong."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne The Deputy is telling them it is about war."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle We cannot have interruptions."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh Let the Government be on its own. As Chair of the defence and national security committee, I have a job to do to facilitate all members of the committee, and I will do that. I want to be absolutely clear. Protecting Ireland's neutrality and strengthening our Defence Forces are not mutually exclusive. The Government would have people believe that the triple lock is somehow preventing Ireland from playing its part internationally and is something we need to be ashamed of. This is not the case. Our personnel can participate in international military training, undertaking humanitarian operations of any size, responding to natural disasters and emergencies and engaging in overseas activities that do not require triple lock approval. They can go on rescue missions and do all of those things. The Irish people know that; they are not stupid. We can strengthen our maritime security, protect our undersea infrastructure, improve our cybersecurity, invest in air surveillance and enhance our capacity to respond to emerging threats. We can improve military readiness, modernise equipment, invest in our barracks and, crucially, address the recruitment and retention crisis that continues to undermine our Defence Forces. Not one of those priorities requires the abolition of the triple lock. The real obstacle to strengthening our Defence Forces are decades of underinvestment, inadequate infrastructure and the failure of successive Governments to properly support the men and the women who serve our State. I want to take this opportunity today to thank each and every one of those who has served and continues to serve. The triple lock is not responsible for the crumbling barracks or the personnel shortages. Yet, rather than tackling these challenges, the Government has chosen to dismantle an important safeguard of Irish neutrality as its priority. Let us be honest with the people around the triple lock. It ensures that certain overseas deployments require Government and D\u00e1il approval and a United Nations mandate. Its removal would fundamentally change the safeguards governing Ireland's participation in overseas military operations. It would transfer greater discretion to the Government of the day, weakening an important democratic and international check. This has serious implications for our neutrality, and the Irish people deserve honesty about those implications. The Government is acting against their expressed wishes. I recognise the genuine difficulties facing the United Nations Security Council, but the answer to a dysfunctional Security Council is not to abandon the UN framework. The answer is to reform it. Ireland should be leading international efforts to reform the council, to challenge the misuse of the veto, to strengthen accountability and to ensure that international peacekeeping is not paralysed by geopolitical interests. We should be using our diplomatic influence to build alliances for meaningful UN reform, not just using its shortcomings as an excuse to remove safeguards at home. Ireland's military neutrality has given us a distinctive and respected voice internationally. It allows us to advocate for peace, diplomacy, international law and conflict resolution, independent of military alliances. That independence is worth protecting, and the people living on this island think it is worth protecting. Sinn F\u00e9in will oppose the Minister\u2019s attempts to abolish the triple lock, invest in our Defence Forces, reform the United Nations and protect our neutrality. If the Government insists on fundamentally changing the safeguards underpinning our neutrality, it should put it to the people in a referendum. If it is not brave enough to let the Irish people have their say, then it should stand aside and let a Government that will do so."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney The Social Democrats strongly oppose this Bill, but not all elements of it. As Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire pointed out, there are some important parts of it regarding disciplinary procedures and so on. However, the removal of the triple lock is an erosion of our neutrality. Although the Government will not admit that, that is the basis on which we oppose this Bill. The Taoiseach called it \"reform\" earlier, and in their opening comments the Minister and Minister of State have used the term \u201creform\u201d. It is not reform, and therefore, the Government has no mandate. It is the abolition of the triple lock. It is the removal of the triple lock, with no comparable replacement, and I am going to get into some detail on that. The Government has no mandate. Fine Gael, in its manifesto for the 2024 election, was silent on this. Fianna F\u00e1il talked about sensible reform. The programme for Government refers to reform while maintaining Irish neutrality, which this Bill does not do. I will refer to some of the experts who have testified to that in committee. I have criticised the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond for his position in not supporting Irish neutrality, but I have come around to the fact that at least he is open and transparent about it because that is less than I can say for the rest of the Fine Gael Cabinet members and TDs who speak on this issue. They do not support neutrality. They never have and never will, as long as they are in power. The Bill finally puts the nail in the coffin of Irish neutrality and allows Fine Gael to pursue its goals, namely, to drag us towards militarisation along with its EPP partners. Fianna F\u00e1il has at least in the past had strong support for Irish neutrality, going back decades with people like Frank Aitken who was instrumental in the development of Irish foreign policy and the multilateralism that is a cornerstone of that. Of course, this is why we are seeing a schism in the Fianna F\u00e1il membership, whereby some of its TDs are seeing through the Government spin and recognise that this is an absolute nail in the coffin of Irish neutrality. I urge the rest of its Deputies to please tune in to and listen to the debate and hear what the Opposition is saying. The Opposition is completely united and is working together to open the eyes of the public, who are with us on this, and those of the Government Deputies who are being hoodwinked by the Cabinet spin. The cross-party work on this has been incredibly strong. I am proud to be a part of the Irish Neutrality League, along with Members present today and others. Of course, Catherine Connolly, before she was elected to \u00c1ras an Uachtar\u00e1in, was a founder of the Irish Neutrality League. I want to get past the politics and into some of the policy of this and have a look at what is being proposed by the Government because that is important. The Bill is suggesting that we go from a clear legal mechanism, which acts as a backstop for Irish neutrality in the deployment of our troops, to what will essentially be a set of vague words and terms that do not have legal standing and that will inform our military deployment policy. There will be no comparable legal certainty. I will address the Minister\u2019s call for other ways in which we could satisfy the triple lock. Ultimately, what the Bill will do is bring us from peacekeeping to military deployment for regional interests. One of the most tangible examples of this change is what I heard during the pre-legislative scrutiny debate in the defence committee. In an exchange between Deputy Murphy and the Minister\u2019s Department's head of defence and security policy, the Deputy asked the Minister\u2019s colleague, who is here with us today, whether if the legal framework being proposed in the Bill was in place in 2003 there would have been anything stopping us from sending troops to invade Iraq. The answer was \u201cNo\u201d. There would have been nothing in place for us to stop it. There would have been no legal backstop and no triple lock to prevent the Government of the day potentially sending troops to Iraq. It was startling to hear that, because the UK and the US claimed at the time that what they did was in compliance with the UN Charter, which is exactly what the Government is trying to replace our triple lock with, namely, adherence to the UN Charter, a term so vague that it is meaningless. Trite phrases like the \"UN Charter\" mean nothing when those kinds of invasion are overseen without UN oversight. That is the point. The UN mandate is the only show in town when it comes to multilateralism and the Government is choosing to remove it. This Bill will allow missions with no UN mandate as long as they are \"consistent with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations\" but who is to determine if a regional organisation or body operates in a manner consistent with the UN Charter, especially when there is no Security Council or General Assembly oversight? That is the role of the UN and it is a role the Government is actively seeking to erode. I will speak to some of the missions that have been referenced throughout the debates on the triple lock and this specific Bill. There has been a lot of misrepresentation of those missions and the missions the Government purportedly wants to go on, so I will delve into some of them. At Leaders' Questions earlier, the Taoiseach made great statements about how Irish troops had been instrumental in delivering humanitarian aid to Chad. I agree, but the Government's proposed non-triple lock missions have no humanitarian functions - not in the new functions for Operation IRINI and not in the EU missions in Lebanon. The new Lebanon mission - we have to clarify this - is not a peacekeeping mission. This is not hyperbole or hysterics. The EU mission does not have a peacekeeping function. It is a training mission to train the Lebanese military. The main similarity it has with UNIFIL is simply that it takes place in Lebanon."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne And we currently do not need the triple lock for that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney We only need to look at the disaster of the EU training mission in Mali to see the problem with these kinds of mission but crucial to the discussion on this Bill is that these are not peacekeeping missions."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne Just on a point of information that does not currently require-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney Please let me finish."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle There are not points of information. This is a debate."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney Now I would like to talk about the-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne There is disinformation being thrown out here."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Deputy did not interrupt the Minister of State and he should not interrupt her."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne But it is disinformation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Keep going Deputy Gibney, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney I will address the non-renewal of mandates because that is one of the key points that the Government puts forward around this. Have there been any new UN-founded missions since 2014? The answer is \"No\" and we all know that. However, have there been mandate renewals and mandates for regional missions? The answer is \"Yes\". These include Operation Sophia for search and rescue in the Mediterranean and enforcing the Libyan arms embargo, the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force, UNDOF, peacekeeping mission in the Golan Heights, which Ireland pulled out of in 2024, and the Haiti mission that was approved by the Security Council in 2023 and began in 2024. The Government's dialogue around this is an attempt to misdirect the Irish public. It cannot get a mandate from the UN for peacekeeping, so it is going to get rid of the triple lock so that it can send troops on non-peacekeeping missions with no UN mandate. There are 11 UN peacekeeping missions currently. There are also more missions globally that have a UN mandate, such as the Haiti mission. The new Lebanon mission is not a peacekeeping mission, so how exactly is our peacekeeping tradition being protected? In the few minutes I have left, I want to pick up on some of the points that the Minister and Minister of State made in their opening statements. The Minister specifically asked us for alternatives. The Government says it is looking to collaborate. I find that hard to stomach when it continues to hold that removal of the triple lock does not compromise our neutrality, but nonetheless and on that basis, what of the uniting for peace resolution and the use of the General Assembly, the Government's pursuit of which I have asked for proof of time and again? The Taoiseach was at the UN General Assembly recently. Did he raise this? Did he talk about how we would like the General Assembly to satisfy our triple lock as outlined in the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006? I do not think he did."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle That was rhetorical, just in case anyone was going to answer."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney Yes. Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne That is in the legislation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Minister of State will be closing the debate and will be able to answer."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne It is covered."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney The General Assembly is increasingly being seen as a crucial mechanism to get past what we all know to be issues with the veto by the permanent members of the Security Council, but beyond that the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006 clearly states: \"International United Nations Force\" means an international force or body established, mandated, authorised, endorsed, supported, approved or otherwise sanctioned by a resolution of the Security Council or the General Assembly of the United Nations; Thus, even beyond the uniting for peace resolution that is available to the Government to satisfy the triple lock but that the Government has failed to pursue, a mission does not even have to be a Security Council mandate or a mission set up via the General Assembly, just endorsed or supported. It is extremely generous language that allows for flexibility in the face of any Security Council deadlock, which we all acknowledge is an issue. In that context, the Government's histrionics over the permanent five members and the veto do not stand up to scrutiny. No new mandate was sought for Operation IRINI and, crucially, it is not a peacekeeping mission. The Minister spoke about four members of the Defence Forces having to withdraw immediately but that is false. They were not legally compelled to withdraw immediately because that was well under the existing limit of 12 deployed without the UN mandate,-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Helen McEntee No."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne No, that is the point I made."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Helen McEntee It has nothing to do with numbers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney -----which is what the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, then confirmed in his contribution."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Sorry, Deputy. Just to prevent all the interruptions-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne I made the point-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Hold on, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne -----that the figure of 12 related to D\u00e1il approval."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Minister of State will have a closing statement. That is when he will address these matters. Take note."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne Okay. I am only trying to help the debate."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Do not interrupt the Deputy again. I have asked the Minister of State three times. Continue, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sin\u00e9ad Gibney","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sin\u00e9ad-Gibney.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sin\u00e9ad Gibney Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. Finally, in terms of picking up on points that the Minister and Minister of State have put forward, the Minister of State said that the new definition still allowed us to participate in new UN missions and to take part in missions from the \"OSCE, the EU or other regional arrangements\". We can already do that. We already have. We just require a UN mandate because that is the guarantee given to the people in the Seville declarations. The invention of the Common Security and Defence Policy, Partnership for Peace and other EU mechanisms poses a threat to Irish neutrality. They run the risk of us not acting for human rights, not acting for the greater good and not acting for multilateralism and international law but for European interests. This is a bloc that has been consistently out of step with Irish foreign policy on the genocide in Gaza, our commitments to humanitarian aid and human rights. Nobody is raising an issue with the Government's changes on civilian evacuation operations, so those points are misleading. I will finish with a couple of quotes from the pre-legislative scrutiny when we had both Professor Ray Murphy and Mr. Joe Noonan in speaking to us. I will read what Professor Murphy said because they were such powerful words. He said: We are removing the requirement for the UN to approve and give legitimacy to Ireland's participation in an international force abroad. By doing so, we are joining all of those states that we are critical of, and that are rendering the United Nations dysfunctional ... He also said: Allowing Irish forces to go to non-UN-approved forces is opening a carte blanche for major operations of a nature which we cannot predict. If we send forces on the ground, as part of an EU or NATO force ... [will] we become embroiled in an actual armed conflict and be a party to a conflict? Those are powerful statements in the context of this debate. They tell us that we are threatening Irish neutrality. That is what is happening here no matter what the Government says or how much it denies that the Bill is a threat to our neutrality. That is exactly what it is. It is an abolition of Irish neutrality through the abolition of the triple lock. As others have, I reiterate the Social Democrats' support for \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann and recognition of the unbroken record of peacekeeping we are proud to hold as a nation state. We, as other parties do, support the mid-level funding that would see our Defence Forces brought back up to a level of functionality from where it is now that the Minister and Minister of State's Governments have allowed it to deteriorate to. This is vital legislation and it vital for us to debate it properly. We also object to the guillotine that is being applied today. I urge Government TDs to tune in and listen to their consciences because if they hold Irish neutrality dear, they must see through the spin of this Cabinet. What is being put forward is completely disingenuous. That this can be passed and we can maintain our neutral status as a nation state is nonsensical and we have to see through that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rory Hearne The Minister of State's interrupting of my colleague was really out of line but it suggests that he knows this is a complete betrayal of the people's desire for Ireland to remain a neutral country. Even more than that, this is Fianna F\u00e1il betraying its promises and going back on them. Fine Gael has always been very interested in pulling us into deeper militarisation and military links but for Fianna F\u00e1il, this is deeply politically damaging and the Minister of State knows it. That is why he is squirming and intervening and why the Taoiseach was so riled by it. I have rarely seen such a U-turn. Fianna F\u00e1il was so explicit. The Taoiseach said in 2013 that the triple lock was core to our neutrality. The Taoiseach, Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin, said that, so what has changed? How is it now no longer the case? If we come forward to 2020, Fianna F\u00e1il's manifesto sets it out so clearly. Fianna F\u00e1il reaffirmed its commitment to the retention of the triple lock of the UN mandate authorisation and Government and D\u00e1il approval prior to committing Defence Forces personnel on overseas service. Fianna F\u00e1il's 2020 manifesto said it, so what has changed? How is Fianna F\u00e1il now somehow claiming that getting rid of the triple lock has no impact on our neutrality? Of course it does. It absolutely does. This is abandoning our neutrality. What is really sad about this legislation and what the Government is doing is that not only is it abandoning our neutrality, it is abandoning the UN. It is giving up on the United Nations and the decades of work done to build it up as something that could try to get international peace. The Government is undermining Ireland's role as a global neutral force and peacekeeper by abandoning the UN. It knows that there are potential pathways to use the UN, like the General Assembly, as has been set out by my colleague, but it is giving up on those. That is deeply disappointing because it sends out the message that Ireland, just like so many others such as the US, no longer believes that the UN is reformable and can be a core institution globally. The US, Russia, Israel - all the aggressors are delighted with that. Ireland, one of the countries that stood up as a neutral country behind the UN, no matter what, is now saying that the UN no longer works as an international institution of peace. That is a very sad day. It is a much more profound implication of this legislation than has been considered and is being put across. I want to echo the point that this is anti-democratic. The Government did not get approval for this in its manifestos, programme for Government or the general election and the matter should be put to the people. It is very clear that there is overwhelming support for our neutrality in its current form among the Irish people. T\u00e1 taca\u00edocht ollmh\u00f3r i measc mhuintir na h\u00c9ireann d\u00e1r neodracht mar at\u00e1 s\u00ed faoi l\u00e1thair. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 sin thar a bheith soil\u00e9ir. It is a very sad day for our neutrality and Ireland's role, which is being lost as a global peacemaker."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice I usually keep my contributions in this House to health issues and focus my work on health policy, but I asked for time on this debate because I felt strongly that this was the wrong decision. I think it is a decision that the Government and the Irish people are going to regret. I urge the Government to reconsider it, to take this slower and to not rush it through the House because it has profound changes for our nation, our sense of who we are and our place in the world. There are members of the Minister's party - Fine Gael Members of this Parliament - who openly talk about wanting to join NATO. If we are honest about it, that is the direction of travel in which Fine Gael wants to take us. Meanwhile, Fianna F\u00e1il is just happy to be in power. The fact that the Fianna F\u00e1il Ministers of State are squirming beside the Minister tell us exactly how uncomfortable they are."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne I am the biggest advocate for this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice But they are going along with Fine Gael on this. Eroding our neutrality erodes our soft power and influence in the world. We have a place in the world where we can focus on peacebuilding and peacekeeping. That is crucial. That is the role the Irish people want us to have on the world stage. We have a huge influence in the world because of our neutrality and our track record around peacekeeping and peacebuilding. When international law is under attack, we need to defend the UN. We need to lean into multilateralism. We need to be that voice in the world saying that there is a different way. When there is a rise in militarism, we can say that neutrality and de-escalation are a way forward. Fundamentally, I think that the Irish people agree with the Opposition on this and that, if we put this to the people, we would get a very clear result. The overwhelming majority of Irish people support neutrality and the triple lock. I urge the Minister to please reconsider this, take this slower and stop rushing this through the House."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Rice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-Rice.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Rice This is the wrong decision."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Niall Collins) I am glad to have the opportunity to speak about this legislation. I have been following the debate on this closely for a number of months. Some facts have been getting lost in the debate that I am glad to put on the record. The Fianna F\u00e1il Party manifesto for the general election promised to reform the triple lock. The election saw Fianna F\u00e1il - my party - returned as the largest party to D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann with the highest vote share. The subsequent programme for Government, agreed with Fine Gael and the group of Independents, reaffirmed the pledge to reform the triple lock."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy So why does the Government not reform it?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Deputy should please not interrupt."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Niall Collins Thankfully, we do not do government by referendum in this country. We have seen how that has worked out for others - not so well. This is a democratically elected Government following through on a commitment, a commitment we made because we needed this reform. The need for this reform is clear because, while we have a proud history of peacekeeping in this country, the United Nations Security Council is dysfunctional. It has not approved any new peacekeeping missions since 2014. We are seeing very real implications of this dysfunction. At the end of this year, we are going to be forced to withdraw from Lebanon after almost 50 years. We are losing a real presence, history and a voice for Ireland in Lebanon against our own foreign policy objectives due to dysfunction outside of our control. There have been suggestions that we can reform the UN Security Council from within. That is wishful thinking. The possibility of that reform is remote. The main participants in the UN Security Council are determined to damage the operation of the United Nations to the greatest possible extent in respect of international law. It is also regrettable that much of the debate has been hijacked by blatant misinformation and populism."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Niall Collins Ireland is neutral. We cherish that neutrality and will continue to do so. This legislative reform has no effect on that. It is a simple fact that military neutrality is defined by non-participation in military alliances, common or mutual defence arrangements or active armed conflicts between other nations. Therefore, our military neutrality is not changing as a result of this legislative reform. The democratically elected D\u00e1il will have the final approval of any future measures, rather than any rogue superpower. How is that not sensible reform? Do Deputies not trust themselves?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy We do not trust the Government."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Niall Collins It is necessary and sensible reform. We live in a different world now from the one we lived in until recently. In these changed circumstances, to say that Ireland cannot do internationally what it used to be able to do because one of five nuclear powers says \"No\" does not make sense any more."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Minister of State."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Niall Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Niall-Collins.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Niall Collins I am glad that the Government is following through on this commitment."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Catherine-Callaghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Catherine Callaghan Speaking as the only current Member of this House who has served in the Permanent Defence Force and as a UN peacekeeper, I want to address some of the claims that have been made about this legislation. Sinn F\u00e9in's continual mislabelling of legislation calling the triple lock a neutrality protection mechanism is disingenuous. In listening to some of the other Opposition contributions, one would think that Ireland was completely abandoning its neutrality and we were turning our back on the United Nations or preparing to join NATO. None of these things is happening. Our military neutrality remains. Our full commitment to the United Nations remains, and our obligations under international law and the principles of the UN Charter remain. The question at the heart of this debate is very simple: should Ireland decide where our Irish peacekeeping troops are deployed or should that decision remain dependent on the five permanent members of the UN Security Council? I believe that Ireland should decide. I have worn the Irish flag on my shoulder, and I understand what it means to represent this country. I also understand the professionalism of the Defence Forces and the importance of military advice in decisions about overseas deployments. However, what has changed is the world around us. The UN Security Council has not established a new peacekeeping mission since 2014, yet nobody in this House could suggest that the world has become a safer place in those intervening 12 years. Our commitment to the UN is unwavering but we must also recognise that the Security Council, in its current form, is increasingly paralysed by the veto powers of the permanent five. Reforming the triple lock does not mean abandoning neutrality. Military neutrality and the triple lock are not the same thing. Our neutrality is a long-standing policy of the State. The triple lock is a legal mechanism. We can reform that mechanism without changing our neutrality and, importantly, removing the UN Security Council requirement does not remove democratic accountability. Professional military advice remains central. Government approval remains and D\u00e1il oversight remains. Future deployments will continue to be governed by international law, the principles of the UN Charter, our neutrality policy and Irish democratic safeguards. I also welcome the provision arising from the Ward report. Having served, I know that discipline is fundamental to military life. I welcome the provisions that are strengthening suspension powers and reporting obligations where personnel face criminal charges."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am afraid the Deputy's time is up. I call Deputy O'Connell."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maeve O'Connell Reforming the triple lock is the right thing to do for the men and women of the Irish Defence Forces, Irish security, Irish sovereignty and Irish neutrality. I am disappointed by the Opposition's continued false framing of this debate. This legislation very simply proposes to remove the ability of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council to prevent the Irish Government and the D\u00e1il from deciding where and when to send our peacekeepers. To put it another way, the Opposition wants the UN Security Council to retain the power to stop us sending our peacekeepers overseas. Let us be fair to the UN Security Council members. In deciding whether to bring a vote to the UN Security Council, the impact in Ireland is not top of their considerations or, most likely, even a consideration at all. The impact on Ireland is of no importance to them but, obviously, it is of huge consequence to us. There have been no new peacekeeping or peace important missions approved by the UN Security Council since 2014. That is 12 years. In those 12 years, other countries - other neutral countries - have participated in new missions but Ireland could not. Now, as we know, the UN Security Council mandate for the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, UNIFIL, in Lebanon is coming to an end. Three generations of Irish peacekeepers have proudly served in Lebanon and the Opposition seems to be happy that there will not be a fourth. Perhaps members of the Opposition does not really want Ireland to work for peace at all. Perhaps they just prefer talking about it but are not really interested in doing the hard work to secure peace. I have a couple of questions for the Opposition. How does the requirement for a UN Security Council mandate, which would include the approval of the US before we can consider sending our peacekeepers overseas, actually protect our neutrality? That is the same US whose President recently visited this island, which many members of the Opposition objected to, yet at the same time, they are okay with that President's Administration getting to decide if we can send our peacekeepers overseas. How does the requirement for the approval of Russia protect our neutrality? The Opposition is happy to allow the country that illegally invaded Ukraine four years ago, bringing war to Europe and death, disruption and hardship to Ukraine, to have a voice on where we, a neutral country, can send our peacekeepers? How does the requirement for the approval of the UK protect our neutrality? Sinn F\u00e9in rejects in principle the authority of the UK over Northern Ireland, yet it is happy for the UK to decide where the Irish men and women of our Defence Forces can serve overseas. This does not make any sense to me. Why does the Opposition not trust the public on this? We are fortunate to live in a parliamentary democracy, which is not what some of the members of the UN Security Council permanent five are. The public elected us to this Chamber, which decides where we send our peacekeepers, and these are the other parts of the triple lock we should be talking about."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Then why did Fine Gael not put it in its manifesto?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Put it in the manifesto."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maeve O'Connell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Maeve-O'Connell.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maeve O'Connell The Government and the D\u00e1il have to approve where we deploy our peacekeepers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Deputy. I am afraid her time is up. I call Deputy Devlin. Deputy Murphy, I am not going to ask you again."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cormac Devlin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cormac-Devlin.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cormac Devlin I welcome the debate today. I want to thank everyone who has been in touch with me with feedback. Their concerns about the triple lock are heartfelt and come from a genuine pride in our peacekeepers and a deep attachment to neutrality. I welcome the feedback and constructive debate here today. Nothing in this Bill, though, changes Ireland\u2019s traditional position of military neutrality. Ireland is not joining a military alliance, there are no plans to change that by this Government and any change would require a referendum. This Bill relates to UN peacekeeping. Irish troops have served in UN missions since 1958. Our Defence Forces have distinguished themselves on more than 76,000 individual tours of duty; and 48 Irish soldiers have given their lives for peace in Lebanon alone. Frank Aiken did much to shape that tradition. As Minister for External Affairs, he gave Ireland an independent voice at the United Nations. In 1960, as our troops left for the Congo, the D\u00e1il first legislated for UN service. At that time, Se\u00e1n Lemass told this House that the UN Charter obliges every member to give the UN every assistance but he also warned that the Security Council had only too often in the past been hamstrung by the exercise of the veto. The world has changed radically since 1960. Today, the veto has deadlocked the Security Council. It has not set up any new UN peacekeeping missions since 2014. These challenges were debated ahead of the last general election and in the Fianna F\u00e1il manifesto, it promised reform. The programme for Government, approved by this very House, committed to reform and action. Ireland is an independent State. Our right to set our own foreign economic policy was hard won and developed step by step from the 1930s under the leadership of de Valera, Aiken and Lemass. Clearly, we must be realistic about the international order but the decision on where our peacekeepers serve must be made here in this House by the elected representatives of D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann, not by others in far-flung capitals representing their own interests. As the Labour Party's William Norton TD said in the House in 1960, \"this Parliament is the custodian of the interests of the nation\" and I agree with him. No state should have a veto over Irish or economic policy. Under this Bill, every deployment needs a Government decision, it must be consistent with the UN Charter, and any contingent of more than 50 personnel needs the approval of this House. This brings Ireland in line with our European partners, including neutral Austria, and it is entirely within our rights as a sovereign member of the United Nations. This Bill facilitates our proud tradition of UN peacekeeping and I will be supporting it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathy Bennett What has changed? In Fianna F\u00e1il's 2020 general election manifesto, it stated that if in government, it wanted to fully maintain neutrality and the triple lock. Sinn F\u00e9in believes that Ireland\u2019s neutrality is a strength that is supported by the Irish people but Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael in government are trying to change the role of Irish troops from peacemakers to conflict participants. No Irish parent wants to see their child in a conflict role or being deployed into European militarisation. The Irish people want to see more defence combined with neutrality. An Taoiseach made a solemn declaration to the Irish people prior to the second Nice and Lisbon referendums. These solemn declarations were intended to ease the fear of the Irish public regarding European militarisation and they did this through a promise to the Irish people. Those promises were to protect the triple lock. In 2013, an Taoiseach told this House that the triple lock was the core of Irish neutrality. Has Miche\u00e1l Martin now rejected this statement as today he says the exact opposite? He maintained that he is now removing the triple lock so that we can continue to take part in peacekeeping missions. I accept issues exist with the Security Council authorisation and recognise and commend the position of the Government regarding the necessary reform. Circumstances have changed, yes, but an Taoiseach's statements and promises to the Irish people were resolute and absolute. An Taoiseach likes to speak to his brand of politics of being of substance."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathy Bennett If so, put a referendum to the people-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Deputy is using up Deputy Mac Lochlainn's time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathy Bennett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Cathy-Bennett.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathy Bennett -----and stop the bullying tactics to make the decisions for the people of Ireland. Let the Irish people have their say and protect our neutrality."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy Mac Lochlainn is next to speak. He might stand, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn Let us just get to the nub of the issue. Members of Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il know that neutrality is cherished by our people - this proud legacy we inherited. Deputy Devlin talked about Frank Aiken and I completely agree. It is a proud legacy. That policy of neutrality was not to sit idly by. That was to allow us to have peacekeepers. It was to allow us to be in the defence of human rights internationally and be involved in peace and conflict resolution internationally. We had the credibility and independence to do all of that. That is the reason, after the rejection of the first Lisbon treaty by the Irish people, the then Government, led by Fianna F\u00e1il, made the solemn declaration that has evolved into the triple lock. There was a solemn declaration and an assurance offered to the Irish people in order to get them to vote for the Lisbon proposition the second time around. The Government knows this. What we are saying is that in order to honour that solemn declaration, the Irish people have to have their say in this matter. It could not be simpler. It is not about Sinn F\u00e9in, the Social Democrats, the Labour Party, People Before Profit, Aont\u00fa or Independent Ireland, or about a range of Opposition parties; it is about the Irish people. The Minister knows this, and any attempt to walk away from that is deeply shameful and dishonest. It is as simple as that. This is a cherished principle for the Irish people. It has been a strength for us internationally. The Minister cannot undo it without putting it to the Irish people. It is as simple as that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Duncan Smith I noted that, in her opening statement, the Minister framed this debate quite narrowly, as she has done in previous statements on the issue and during Private Members' business. She framed it largely in terms of the UN Security Council being an impediment that simply needs to be removed to allow for more agile and sophisticated foreign policy decisions, implying that anyone who thinks otherwise is prehistoric and unsophisticated in their thinking. The Minister does this in a hurried and rushed fashion. There are two things at play here. One, I believe the Minister knows she does not have the support of the Irish people here and that she is unsure of her own policy on this. She knows she did not get a mandate for this from the voters, nor is it in the programme for Government. What is in the programme for Government is a reform of the triple lock. What most of us in opposition have been proposing through pre-legislative scrutiny and through debate has been a reform of the triple lock because the UN Security Council is broken. I am not advocating for it to return to its former glories. The power of the nuclear five to exercise a veto is a Cold War construct and it is undemocratic. The Cold War ended a long time ago and we need a new way, or more accurately, not necessarily a new way but a different instrument to achieve our triple lock objectives. We can do that through a Uniting for Peace resolution and a motion of assent in the General Assembly. We know it is not a binding motion, but we know it would at least maintain an important lock in the triple lock. I do not believe the triple lock is the full manifestation or expression of Irish neutrality. I believe it is part of it, and an important part of it at that. What the triple lock is and what it represents is our strong expression of and commitment to the UN and the goals of a global effort towards peace. The triple lock, as it has existed over the last quarter of a century or so, has codified our link to the primary multilateral institution in the world, the UN, in terms of peacekeeping and personnel deployment. We have been proud of this. It has been a good thing. The Government has flipped on this in the last number of months and has presented it as a bad thing, saying we are the only ones who do this and that we must surely be mad. The question we should be asking is why others are not doing this. Why are others not strengthening their links with the UN and codifying their links with it in relation to the promotion and securing of peace? We are actually doing something right, not wrong, and we should be promoting that with our European partners and beyond because the UN Security Council is broken. When the Cold War ended, and the end of history was falsely declared, there was brief hope in the 1990s of a more peaceful world order, but that has been shattered in this millennium with the events of 11 September 2001, Afghanistan, Iraq, terrorism, AI weaponry, drone warfare, grey-zone attacks, asymmetric threats and, of course, genocide. All the alliances have been obliterated and the countries of the world are grasping for new certainties. Within this, Ireland, no longer a small nation, but a middle power, is struggling to find its place. We are in danger of making the wrong choices. With this Bill, we are making a wrong choice, a choice that is opening us up to risk: risk to our own security, risk to our troops, and risk to our reputation and our culture of being a powerful voice for peace in the world. Ireland is a member of two multilateral institutions, the EU and the UN. I will return to the EU. The UN is at its weakest in its history because it is under attack by the great hegemonic Cold War powers. The UN Security Council is paralysed and, yes, it has not agreed a new peacekeeping mission since 2014 in the Central African Republic. What is more, the UN Security Council is allowing peacekeeping missions to lapse, most pertinently for Ireland, the UNIFIL mission in Lebanon, which will come to an end later this year. Operation Irini, which has been placed front and centre by the Minister in her arguments as to why the triple lock must be removed rather than reformed, is something we believe could have been retained if she had followed what we in the Opposition are proposing in terms of reform rather than throwing the entire triple lock out. One important question needs to be asked honestly of all of us in this House. Do we support the deployment of Irish troops as part of UN missions such as UNIFIL? Perhaps not all in this House do, but we in the Labour Party do, and we do so without equivocation. In fact, we believe missions are enhanced by the presence of \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann, which brings not only experience and expertise to peacekeeping missions but also a culture of non-offensive warfare, a culture of peacemaking and a culture that can be hard to quantify but impossible to deny. I want to see Ireland continue to be able to provide this in a shifting world, and that is going to give rise to difficult questions, questions I have been asking myself and that we have been discussing in the Labour Party for many months. The answer to those questions ultimately comes back, we believe, to the UN. As Deputy Gibney stated, the UN is the only show in town when it comes to peacekeeping, and we cannot turn our back on it. The UN may fail when the great powers damage it, but it will definitely fail when the middle and smaller nations walk away. That is what we are in danger of doing. I do not believe Ireland can reform the UN on its own, and I am not going to, in bad faith, pretend we have answers or say UN reform is the answer, because I have not heard anyone express a true pathway for UN reform that is actually going to work. It is going to be complex and will have to be done within the UN over many years. However, we do not need UN reform to continue to use the triple lock effectively. We can do it through the Uniting for Peace mechanism and through motions of assent in the General Assembly. Why has the Government shifted from its own election manifestos and its own programme for Government? I would relish a debate on the triple lock in terms of reform. It would be very interesting, but we are not having that. We are having a debate about the triple lock's removal. Where is the pressure coming from? It is not coming from the Irish people because they support it. They support the UN. This is deep within their marrow. The pressure is coming from Europe. I am not someone who is mistrustful of Europe or conspiratorial about it, but the facts are the facts. Europe and the European neighbourhood are now at the forefront of traditional warfare owing to Russia's attack on Ukraine, grey-zone attacks in relation to the Baltic states and other threats, including threats in the North Atlantic. European member states are on a pathway and a programme for rearmament and remilitarisation. Again, this is not a conspiratorial assertion; this is a fact. Poland will have one of the largest armies in the world. It is spending 5% of its GDP on arms. It will have a 300,000-strong standing army and 200,000 reserves, amounting to half a million. It is doing that because it feels a threat from Russia. It is a member state of the EU. We had ambassadors from the Baltic states, including Finland, in committee last week speaking about the threats they are under, and they are arming at a rate too. These are members of the EU. This is the international institution of which we are a part, and this is the international institution that will be progressing EU-led peacekeeping, peace enforcement and security missions in the future. The first one will not be a replacement for UNIFIL, but it is what is coming next. It will not be in southern Lebanon; it will be in central Lebanon, and its mission will be to train the Lebanese army against Hezbollah. It may have a knock-on impact with regard to Israel but it will not be on the southern border. It is what comes next. What will come after that? Will it be Ukraine, Poland, the Baltics, T\u00fcrkiye, the Mediterranean or the north Atlantic? These are the questions we will answer. The EU is evolving rapidly with regard to a common defence union. We had Professor John O'Brennan in the foreign affairs committee. Granted, he was not talking about the triple lock. He was talking about the European Union's evolution. He is saying that the EU is living in an uncomfortable world, which I do not think any of us can deny, and the hegemonic ambitions of the United States, China and Russia, versus the weakening of multilateralism and the trend away from soft power, such as trade, for which the EU was founded, to hard power, which is not a natural competence of the EU, will accelerate the creation of a European defence union. His view, which I share, is that it probably will not be a coercive union and members probably will not be compelled to join but it will ask significant questions of EU member states individually and collectively. By untethering us from the United Nations and from having that guardrail, this Bill means that we are operating within the milieu of an EU that is evolving rapidly and will be faced with tough security and defence questions. Bear in mind, this Government has not produced a national security strategy that it said it would. It was in its programme for Government under reform of the triple lock, by the way, but it has not been published yet. We have to go on trust if we are to support this Bill, which we will not be supporting. It is hard to trust a Government on this issue when it is not being open and honest about the true nature of why this is being removed. Some of the security interests in Europe will match Irish interests. I want to see the north Atlantic secured. We have issues with our undersea cables and so on, and all of this is related. However, the European Union can change. The UK is not in it any more. Spain could have a change of government. Germany is currently being run by a centre-right or a right-wing government, if you ask me. That could move to AfD. France could be ruled by Le Pen. These are not fantastical ideas. They are things that could definitely happen. What does the EU look like in a security, defence and peace enforcement scenario when its two biggest powers are being run by the far right? These are genuine questions and concerns that cannot be dismissed. Keeping the triple lock does not remove them or answer them and I am not saying it does. The Labour Party believes that it brings these decisions to another forum. It is the most global forum, which we have trusted for decades, the United Nations. It is a forum that the Government parties, as well as almost all of us in opposition, have been proud of for many years. In fact, those in Fianna F\u00e1il are tying themselves in knots to say how proud they are of their links to the United Nations, Frank Aiken and so on for many years. That is the one truth of this Bill. In this area, this Government is removing us and untethering us. We can do much of what we need for peacekeeping by going through the UN General Assembly and getting motions of assent. It is unwieldy but international diplomacy is unwieldy. The UN is unwieldy and imperfect. We talk about being agile. In our manifestos, we and others in opposition said that we would increase the number of troops for rapid deployment to extract citizens and so on. That is not a problem. We agree with all that. When it comes to the deployment of troops in a multilateral force, we have to have the UN involved. If we turn our backs on the UN, we are turning our backs on the only hope of a multilateral institution that can help bring about peace in the world that exists now. That might sound highfalutin but it is the only thing we have. I do not think the EU is there yet. The EU is fighting a number of battles with other hegemonic powers. It wants to be at the table. It wants to be like China, like America and like Russia. It wants to have that power. Tricky times are ahead. We do not have the depth of discussion and policy required. I do not think we have the robustness and honesty in government to be able to enter that world at this time, because we have not had the discussions. This Government, whether through this Second Stage debate or through truncating pre-legislative scrutiny, has not allowed enough discussion. I know what it will do when this gets to Committee Stage. It will shorten that too and try to rush this through before Christmas. I am frustrated by others with regard to how neutrality is discussed. I do not think it is discussed well in this Chamber. It is far more complex than is indicated in this Chamber and in others. We need to have proper discussions about defence and security. It is true and certain that with this Bill, this Government is throwing huge risk and uncertainty over the deployment of our troops and our foreign, defence and security policies. It is doing this under pressure from Europe, which is understandable pressure, because some European states are under huge threat, which I understand. We do not need to, and we should not, remove the triple lock. We should look at strengthening the UN with our voice and our deeds. This Government will look back on this as a real regret, because it will be the moment that it turned its back, in a security framework, on the United Nations. It should not do it. Much of the Opposition will work with the Government through Committee Stage to pull back from this. We have a few weeks to do it and I ask the Government to do it. This is the wrong move."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Emer Currie","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Emer-Currie.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Emer Currie Ireland has a proud tradition of peacekeeping. For 60 years, Irish men and women have served overseas, protecting civilians, monitoring ceasefires and making communities safe. This legislation is about ensuring that contribution can continue. It does not alter Ireland's policy of neutrality. It does not commit us to membership of a military alliance or oblige us to participate in any particular overseas operation. It reforms the mechanism through which we decide where our personnel can serve. The triple lock currently requires Government approval, D\u00e1il approval and a United Nations mandate for deployments overseas. That mechanism is no longer working as it should. It leaves us vulnerable to decisions by countries whose interests and priorities may be very different from our own. The five permanent members of the UN Security Council, through the use or threat of a veto, can block Ireland's participation in peacekeeping missions, irrespective of the wishes of the Irish Government or D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann. We have already seen the practical consequences of the existing arrangements. In May, Irish personnel had to cease their participation in Operation Irini in the Mediterranean after the relevant Security Council authorisation expired. I listened to former Deputy Cathal Berry, a former Army Ranger, on the radio this morning as he explained that the Kremlin refused to extend the UN mandate. About 20 other countries stayed in the Mediterranean while Ireland was the only participating country to withdraw. With UNIFIL's operational mandate scheduled to end this December, we are also seeing this issue emerge in Lebanon. These are not hypothetical concerns. They are real limitations with real consequences for our Defence Forces and our international engagement. Without reform, our options will narrow and our ability to sustain the peacekeeping contribution we have made for more than six decades will be constrained. I respect the concerns people have raised. Sending Irish personnel overseas is a serious responsibility. It deserves careful scrutiny, clear legal safeguards and democratic accountability. Government approval and D\u00e1il scrutiny remain central to the proposed arrangements. Missions must be consistent with the UN Charter and international law. Removing the requirement for a UN mandate does not remove our responsibility to uphold those principles. That responsibility must guide every decision we make. Our tradition of neutrality has helped make Ireland a distinctive and valued contributor to international peacekeeping, and we should protect that tradition. However, since when did the independence of a sovereign nation depend on securing the permission of the world's most powerful states? I believe that those who oppose this reform must address the consequences of leaving the existing arrangements unchanged. How do they propose to sustain Ireland's peacekeeping contribution when mandates expire?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Malcolm Byrne This is an important debate. Any decision that we make with regard to defence, security or foreign policy must be in line with our values, which are consistency with international law and respect for human rights, for the rule of law and for democracy. This country has always been very committed to multilateralism. The parties on this side have always been strong supporters of the United Nations, and only the parties on this side have been strong supporters of the European Union since Ireland joined it. When questions about multilateralism come up, it needs to be remembered that it was the leader of Sinn F\u00e9in who shared a platform with Nigel Farage during one of the referendums and one of the parties opposite supported Brexit. When it comes to multilateralism and the role of Ireland, it is a bit rich for some in the Opposition to start citing previous referendum commitments. For the purpose of this debate, I chose to go back into the history and read the debates in July 1946 when it came to Ireland joining the United Nations, and then the debates around the adoption of the Defence (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1960, which led to the first time we committed troops to the Congo. I will quote \u00c9amon de Valera from 1946 when, during the post-war period, he spoke about Ireland joining the UN. He said: Some people think that all that is necessary in order to keep out of war is to declare that one is neutral. That is not sufficient. I would like our people and the members of this House to bear in mind that for six years of war the question as to whether our neutrality would be respected or not depended ultimately upon the will of, perhaps, two men. De Valera warned about the danger of the State being too reliant on the decisions of foreign powers. He certainly would not have been happy with the idea of the UK continuing to hold a veto over Irish foreign policy or decisions on peacekeeping troops. In 1960, when the issue was Congo, we were at the height of the Cold War. The big debate then was about whether the UN would just decide to order our troops in. Se\u00e1n Lemass, the then Taoiseach, pointed out the Bill then provided \"that, except in certain clearly defined cases, the exercise of this power will be subject to the approval of D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann in each instance.\" His emphasis was on the decision having to be taken by the D\u00e1il, referencing the Constitution. This is about our peacekeeping. As others have said, this is not going to be an easy decision in any circumstance. The decisions have to be in line with the values we set out. We should listen to our peacekeepers on this issue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy James Geoghegan This is a very serious and significant debate. Perhaps the most serious debate that any nation state can have is where it sends its defence forces and what are the circumstances under which it sends its defence forces abroad. It is, of course, incredibly important in this country because we are so proud of our neutrality, the strength of our neutrality and what our neutrality does for this country. We are also really proud of our peacekeeping forces. I have heard many Opposition Members telling us what the Irish public think. I believe the Irish public are incredibly proud of the men and women who are currently serving abroad and those who have served abroad in the past. There are two fundamental lies that have underpinned the Opposition debate in respect of the issues that pertain to this Bill. The first is that this Bill represents some form of attack on multilateralism and the United Nations. The second lie is that this somehow represents a transition from Ireland being peacemakers to being conflict makers, as I heard one Sinn F\u00e9in TD say, and forming part of conflict. It is very difficult. I think Deputy Farrell is giving out to me for using the word \"lie\"."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Is he allowed to say \"lie\"?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne It was a lie."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Keep going, Deputy Geoghegan."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy James Geoghegan I will say \"untruth\" if that solves the issue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould You said it now."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am chairing the meeting."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould Just to let the Chair know, I will be coming back on those comments."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy Gould can watch the debate from his office."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould No, I am watching here. I will not be accused of being a liar by anyone. If Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael want to go down that road, I will go down it with them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Your name was not mentioned. I ask Deputy Geoghegan to continue. Do not interrupt again, Deputy Gould."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy James Geoghegan I do not think Sinn F\u00e9in has any credibility with the public when it comes to telling people where the Defence Forces are going to enter conflict or where any Irish man or woman is going to enter conflict versus the defence of peace. For decades in this country, Sinn F\u00e9in and its predecessors sent men and women into conflict when others were looking for peace, so it has no credibility. Leaving aside the fact that Sinn F\u00e9in has no credibility, its claims are simply not true. To the first point, the idea that Ireland is somehow undermining the United Nations because the United Nations Security Council is preventing peace missions from taking place is frankly ridiculous."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Which missions? Name them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy James Geoghegan A point Deputy Gibney completely ignored in her submission is that the legislation makes it very clear that peacekeeping missions that are sanctioned, not just by the United Nations Security Council but by the General Assembly, can and would be carried out by the Defence Forces in Ireland with the approval of D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann. There is nothing in this Bill that is in any shape or form undermining multilateralism. It is quite the opposite."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe I tend to try to approach the problems we face in this Chamber from a pragmatic perspective but they have to be based on core principles. Let me, therefore, outline in clear terms what I believe on this. First, I believe fundamentally in Ireland's military neutrality and do not believe in us being part of military alliances. Second, I believe in our tradition of peacekeeping and I want to see that continue. Third, I believe in the sovereignty of Ireland and this Parliament to make decisions with regard to Ireland. If we take those three core principles and apply them to the problem we will have from next January, when hundreds of Irish peacekeepers for the first time in many decades will be left in Ireland rather than being out around the world providing peacekeeping solutions, how do we, as a Chamber, resolve that? Many in the Opposition might say they do not want to fix the problem and we should leave peacekeepers in Ireland until we can get a UN mandate in this decade or the next decade. Most Irish people believe what the Irish Defence Forces have done in Lebanon is important. In Lebanon in particular, the Defence Forces have kept the aggression of Israel in check in many parts, and I want Irish peacekeepers to stay there."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy As part of an EU mission."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe Let me say this without interruption. I believe in the sovereignty of Ireland. We fought for hundreds of years to make our own-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy There were two referendums."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe Let me make the points without interruption."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy There were two referendums."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy Healy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy Two referendums decided the triple lock."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Just one second. Deputy Healy is also free to watch the debate from his office. If he is going to remain in that seat, he must not interrupt another Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy It is not true."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle It is a matter of respect here that each Deputy can contribute without interruption. Please respect the direction of the Chair."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy Respect the rest of us."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The direction of the Chair is that nobody should interrupt another Member. That is all I ask. Deputy McAuliffe may continue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe I thank the Ceann Comhairle. I said I believe in the sovereignty of the Irish people and of this Parliament, and I really do. I believe that, regardless of one's political view, the Government formed by this Chamber are the people responsible for governing Ireland. That is exactly what the Constitution says. External relations shall be exercised by the Government. I cannot understand how parties that mistrust the British Government on so many issues are willing to give Britain a veto over where we send our troops and that mistrust the American Government on so many issues are willing to give Donald Trump a veto on us sending troops to Lebanon. Why do we not trust this place? The word \"trust\" was used by Deputies opposite. I will finish on this point. Ultimately, the Opposition does not trust this Government on lots of issues. We have political differences. I understand that. However, if the Deputies opposite were elected to govern in the morning, while they might make different decisions than we would, I would trust in-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy McAuliffe's time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe -----their right and mandate from the Irish people to make those decisions, because I abide by the Constitution."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Deputy McAuliffe."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe I do not believe anybody outside this island should be dictating-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy McAuliffe, your time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe I was interrupted."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle You were, but I gave you latitude for the time you were interrupted."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe You gave me 20 seconds."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I call Deputy Farrell."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe Ceann Comhairle, you continue to allow people to be browbeaten in this Chamber. I lost a minute of my three minutes while we have other speakers-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle You did not lose a minute."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy Take a minute back."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Follow the direction of the Chair, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul McAuliffe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-McAuliffe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul McAuliffe It is obvious that some Members of this House have no right to speak in this House."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy Take an extra minute."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Earlier today, the Minister claimed that the Government has a mandate to remove the triple lock. To be honest, I find that to be an astonishing claim. Every single opinion poll repeatedly shows overwhelming public support for our neutrality and for retaining the triple lock. Even a majority of the Government parties' voters want to see it protected. The Government has never sought a mandate to weaken our neutrality. No members of this Government were elected on the promise to abolish the triple lock. No member of this Government got elected on the promise to abolish the triple lock. There was no commitment in the manifestos of Fianna Fail or Fine Gael to do so. Let us be clear that the only mandate they have is to protect the triple lock. Irish neutrality is not theirs to change, and the triple lock is not theirs to dismantle. If the Government wants to make any changes to our neutrality, then it must go the people. It is their right and their right alone to decide the future of our neutrality. The Minister said earlier today that all TDs will get to have their say on the legislation tonight. I urge all Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael Deputies, as well as those Independent backbenchers propping up this Government, to act on the Minister\u2019s words and have their say. I urge them to represent their constituents who overwhelmingly oppose this attack on our neutrality. I urge them to vote to keep the triple lock and protect our neutrality. This is a question for the Irish people. It is a question that has been promised to the Irish people through referendums. They want this kept. It should not be the decision of a Minister, Taoiseach or T\u00e1naiste to scrap this. The Irish people want it to stay. The Irish people are proud of our neutrality. The triple lock should stay. I will be watching closely as to how people vote tonight."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould It is good to start with the Taoiseach's own words, namely that the triple lock is !at the core of Irish neutrality\" and that UN peacekeeping is the core of Irish neutrality. That is what the Taoiseach said. My constituency colleague, Fianna F\u00e1il TD, Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan, said on \"The Tonight Show\" last night that it is regrettable that more time was not given to the debate. This is one of the most major decisions that any of us will make as a TD, and it is probably one of the major decisions this Government will make. History will look back at our speeches. I listened to a Deputy talking about going back to look at speeches from the forties and other times. People will look at what we say tonight. This is history. What the Government is doing is fundamentally wrong. The Irish people voted twice, in the Nice and Lisbon referendums, and sent a clear message that they want to protect Irish neutrality. They do not want Europe to drag us into any conflicts. I heard a Deputy talk a while ago about conflicts, although I cannot remember who it was. Does that Deputy remember that people in his party flew the swastika in Dublin and Galway when they sailed to Spain to attack the Spanish people, whereas Frank Ryan and his men went over there to stand up for the Spanish people?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne That is not true."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould Let us remember that. If Members wish to talk about history, let us remember that. Was that the right decision to fly the swastika? By God, then they come into the Chamber, accuse the Opposition and say Sinn F\u00e9in are liars. They cannot stand over their argument. That Deputy never withdrew his statement. It is because they know the Irish people do not want this. They know they cannot go to the people. They know it will be rejected. Is there a man or a woman in here with a backbone to stand up for the people? I think not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne Se\u00e1n Russell."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Excuse me, Minister of State. Please do not have me say it again. I call Deputy Paul Murphy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy I have seen a lot of dishonest and disingenuous arguments and debates in the D\u00e1il but this is the worst. The Government cannot possibly believe what it is saying. It knows what it is saying is not true. The Minister of State is fond of saying over and over again that we are reforming the triple lock but the reason for that is that is all he has a mandate for. Fine Gael has no mandate whatsoever on this. It did not mention it. I am sure the Independents did not mention it either. Fianna F\u00e1il has a mandate to protect Irish military neutrality and to reform the triple lock. The Government is not telling the truth, nor is the Minister of State when he pretends that something is being reformed when, in fact, it is being scrapped. Will anyone refer to the triple lock if the Government has its way with this? It will be gone, of course. No one will call it the triple lock anymore. If there are three locks and one is done away with, then it is not a triple lock anymore. It will, therefore, not be reformed. The Government\u2019s own civil servants accepted that. We are also meant to accept the idea that this has nothing to do with neutrality. We are all meant to forget the discussions we had over the past years in which the Government very openly said it wanted to have a discussion about neutrality. Mich\u00e9al Martin said that neutrality was simply a policy issue that can change at any time and called for a reflection on military non-alignment in Ireland and our military neutrality. Everyone with eyes to see knew what the Government was doing. The Government took advantage of the situation and fear created by Putin\u2019s invasion of Ukraine to try to scrap our neutrality. It ran into strong public opinion, and so simply devised a new tactic to redefine what neutrality is. Listening to the Minister\u2019s speeches, neutrality simply means not joining NATO now. That is all it means. We could send troops to Iraq-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne No, we could not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy We could send troops to Iraq and we would still be neutral because the Government has simply redefined neutrality as not joining a military alliance."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne That would be unconstitutional."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy What is his definition then?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne Article 29 of the-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy The Minister of State can provide his definition of neutrality in his reply."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Minister of State has a rebuttal."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy The Government has redefined neutrality as simply not being in a military alliance, and that is not for no reason. Interestingly and very worryingly, in the senior Minister\u2019s speech today, on the one hand she told us that this is nothing to do with neutrality and that there is no threat to neutrality. On the other hand, however, she said, \"Putting neutrality in our Constitution would undoubtedly prevent us from engaging in any meaningful way with other countries on security or defence matters\". What? On the one hand, we are a neutral country and we should not worry about a threat to neutrality but, on the other hand, we cannot put it in our Constitution that governs what governments can do because that would prevent us engaging with others. Who will we be engaging with? Is it NATO? Would it be a problem to the Government\u2019s participation almost every single month in meetings in NATO headquarters? Would it be a problem with the agenda that anyone with eyes can see that Miche\u00e1l Martin is absolutely rearing to have Ireland more and more integrated into a Western military alliance? Are we expected to forget that Mich\u00e9al Martin signed up to facilitate the US invasion of Iraq? We are expected to forget all of this and simply trust the Government. We do not trust it. We do not trust governments that have supported and facilitated US imperialist invasions over decades. Of course we do not trust the Government. Finally, we have the red herring of the veto. It is a nonsense. There is no veto. The UN General Assembly can, currently, unlock the triple lock. That is in the legislation as it currently stands. All of this is framed with the idea about a country of sovereign choosing where it sends peacekeepers. It is not just the triple lock that stops us choosing where we send peacekeepers; there is also international law. International law and the UN Charter say that we cannot just send troops wherever we want. What the triple lock does is it enshrines international law into Irish law. The Government wants to get rid of it so that it can send troops to participate in illegal wars. The Government needs to tell us the illegal wars it wants us to participate in."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett This Bill represents an historic betrayal of this country\u2019s tradition of neutrality, instigated by people like Wolfe Tone and later by James Connolly, P\u00e1draig Pearse and Constance Markievicz. The Government is betraying that tradition, and it has no right to do so because that tradition of neutrality is the property of the people of this country, not of any government. Let us be clear that, if this passes, there is nothing to stop the Irish Government sending Irish troops abroad in military adventures and wars involving, according to the new wording, any \"regional arrangement or body that operates in a manner consistent with the Charter of the United Nations and international law\". By whom is that defined? Yesterday, I attended the funeral of Denis Halliday, a former UN Assistant Secretary General from this country and a fantastic activist. I stood on the platforms with him in 2003 when Fianna F\u00e1il facilitated the US military to go through Shannon Airport to commit an illegal war against Iraq, which claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. US troops were allowed to go through Shannon Airport. Denis Halliday resigned from the United Nations because of the sanctions regime that claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. When those criminal sanctions were imposed, they were apparently in line with international law but, in fact, what was done to the Iraqi people was criminal and murderous. It was claimed to be done in the name of international law and in line with the Charter. Anybody can claim them and indeed Donald Trump, if pushed, would probably claim his actions are in line with international law and the Charter of the United Nations. What the Government is actually doing is removing the block on the Irish Government being able to deploy troops in those situations. Would the Government send young people to die in wars in which they did not want to die?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne No."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett It is doing it right now. I was talking to Ukrainians who fled to this country because they do not want to fight for either Zelenskyy or Putin and they looked for refuge. If refuge is about anything, it is about providing refuge to people who do not want to fight in wars but the Irish Government is checking people's papers and if they do not have a pass on conscription they are being sent back to fight and die in a war they do not want to fight in. The Government is doing it to the Ukrainians who it claims to support and to be concerned about. Would the Government do it to young Irish people too? Yes, it would, just like it lets the US military through Shannon to conduct a criminal war, invites President Trump, who is up to his neck in the genocide that Israel is committing, and will not impose sanctions on that regime because it is pals with Trump. That is the truth of it. The UN is far from perfect. It is very far from perfect but the one thing the veto does is prevent us from being involved in military conflict where the big powers are at loggerheads with each other. That is the whole point and that goes right back to Wolfe Tone and Connolly and that we do not side with empires."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Brian Stanley There needs to be a level of honesty about what is being put forward here. The Government is not being honest about what is happening here. It is doing away with multilateralism and having UN approval so that Ireland can participate in what the Bill refers to as other regional arrangements and relevant international forces. Who defines that?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne It is in the legislation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Brian Stanley The fact is this Bill is not a small change or a modification to our defence and foreign policy and it is misleading spin to say otherwise. It is a complete change of our position as a State and how we deal with international relations and the UN. It is not reform of the triple lock; it is the abolition of it. It is yet another move, on top of what Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael have been doing for the last 20 years or so, to undermine our position as a neutral State. This includes misinformation and arms industry propaganda pumped out, day after day, participation in joint NATO missions, and the scandalous use of Shannon Airport by the US war machine to carry out its illegal oil wars in the Middle East. I could go on and on. This misinformation from Government Ministers and spokespersons has included such nonsense as the claim that we cannot deploy more than 12 troops for rescue missions and the like unless the UN Security Council approves it. Some of them were saying this until recently but of course we can do that, as confirmed by the Minister many times and as confirmed in the legislation. There is no limit on what can be deployed for missions related to rescue, natural disasters or for humanitarian purposes. Another example is the claim that we will not be able to participate in peacekeeping missions but there are 11 active peacekeeping missions already in the world. Another claim is that we need to modernise our Defence Forces. Of course we do and we should not be leaving it until now to do it. That needed to be resourced, our personnel needed to be paid properly and our Defence Forces needed to be modernised long ago. That should have happened and nothing in the triple lock stops us from doing that. Another suggestion is that Russia will use the power of veto that the five permanent members of the Security Council have to block resolutions on peacekeeping. Which ones? There was only one resolution, in 1999, that was vetoed by China. In fact, since 2020 and 2024, 264 out of 284 UN resolutions were passed by the Security Council, with only 20 rejected. This happened without anyone exercising a veto. The Government might look at those facts. On the issue of democracy, solemn national declarations, not wishy-washy statements, were attached to both the Lisbon and Nice treaties and endorsed by the Irish people to protect the triple lock. The triple lock is writ large in those declarations. I urge Government Ministers to check those two declarations. I have read them carefully and the triple lock is there in them to protect our neutrality, which people were concerned about. Any attempt to change the law or to undo those national declarations by the sovereign people is wrong. It is theirs to change only and not holding a referendum is a denial of democracy and a slap in the face to Irish citizens. Despite saturation levels of coverage to drop neutrality and the triple lock, successive opinion polls show that the majority of the electorate wants to retain our neutrality. Our neutrality has given us a level of credibility internationally and is our best defence against aggression because we do not pose a threat to other countries. We should work with other neutral and non-aligned countries to build multilateralism. I accept that the UN needs to be reformed but we should work to reform it and not join in with the warmongers, those who are beating the war drums at the behest of the arms industry and western superpowers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Roderic O'Gorman This Bill proposes a fundamental change to Ireland's long-standing approach to overseas military deployments. Despite the significance of this Bill, the Government will guillotine the debate in this House, denying Members the scrutiny and debate that such a proposal deserves. Whatever your view on the triple lock, surely we can all agree that legislation of this magnitude warrants careful examination. This Bill is not a minor technical amendment. It removes a core plank that has shaped Irish defence policy for decades. It changes the legal basis on which members of our Defence Forces can be deployed overseas on peace enforcement missions, yet the Government seems determined to use its majority to curtail debate and avoid the detailed scrutiny that a change of this nature demands. That is disgraceful. The central purpose of this Bill it to remove the requirement for a UN mandate before Irish troops can participate in certain overseas missions. The existing requirement for a UN mandate will be removed and replaced with a new framework allowing participation in a much broader range of international forces. Crucially, the Bill does not draw a distinction between peacekeeping and peace enforcement. The Green Party does not support that change. We do not believe that Irish troops should participate in peace enforcement missions without a UN mandate. Peace enforcement missions are fundamentally different from traditional peacekeeping operations. Peacekeeping missions generally operate with the consent of the parties involved in a conflict but peace enforcement missions, by contrast, can involve deployment where such consent does not exist. They carry different risks, different political implications and different consequences for our country's international standing. In those circumstances, we believe that the legitimacy confirmed by a UN mandate remains essential. The debate around the triple lock has been framed by the Government as a debate about the legitimacy of the UN Security Council. This framing is wrong. Supporting the triple lock does not mean believing that the UN is perfect; it is not. The UN needs reform. The operation of the Security Council needs reform. There is a strong case for giving a greater role to the General Assembly and for modernising structures that reflect the realities of 1945 rather than those of today, but acknowledging the need for reform is not a reason to abandon the institution. At a time when multilateralism is under pressure all over the world, when international law is increasingly challenged and when powerful states are seeking to act outside international norms, Ireland should be strengthening its commitment to international institutions, not weakening it. For small countries such as Ireland, the UN has always mattered. It is one of the few places where countries of our size can influence global affairs on the basis of principle rather than power. Our proud record in UN peacekeeping demonstrates exactly that. The Government argues that removing the triple lock will increase flexibility but flexibility should never come at the expense of legitimacy, nor should this debate be presented as a choice between supporting the triple lock and supporting our Defence Forces. Improving the capacity of our Defence Forces does not require us to abandon an important safeguard governing overseas deployment. These are separate questions and should be treated as such. Ultimately, this debate is about the kind of country Ireland wants to be. Do we want to remain committed to the multilateral approach that has guided Irish foreign policy for generations? Do we continue to insist that peace enforcement operations involving Irish troops should carry the legitimacy of a UN mandate? Do we recognise that as a small state, our interests are best served by strengthening international institutions rather than weakening them? The Green Party's answer to each of those questions is \"Yes\" and for this reason, I will oppose this Bill."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy Irish neutrality and the triple lock are the property of the Irish people. They are not the property of any individual Taoiseach, T\u00e1naiste, Minister or political party. Any proposed change must be put to the Irish people. The triple lock has already been endorsed by the Irish people in two sovereign referendums. These were the second referendums on both the Nice and Lisbon treaties, and it has been acknowledged in the EU Seville Declaration. It was also specifically referenced in the explanatory booklet delivered to every house in the country prior to the second referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Any change must be put to the Irish people. We need to be clear that the Bill does not reform or amend the triple lock; it removes and abolishes the triple lock. If the triple lock is abolished then any Irish Government will be able to send Irish soldiers to any conflict around the world through a simple Government majority. These missions will not be peacekeeping missions; they will be peace enforcement missions. They will be aggressive and military fighting missions with everything this entails. It has been suggested by some people that the triple lock impinges on our ability to protect our own people and our own country. This is not so. This failure lies at the feet of the Minister, the Government and previous Governments. Fine Gael has been in power since 2011 and Fianna F\u00e1il since at least 2016. The fact our Defence Forces have been so run down, to the extent that we do not have enough sailors to man our ships or enough airmen to fly our planes, the reduction in our soldier numbers, the closure of our military barracks such as Kickham Barracks in Clonmel, and the poor pay and conditions of our soldiers, is the responsibility of the Government. It has nothing to do with the triple lock. The suggestion that permanent members of the United Nations Security Council have a veto on Irish peacekeeping missions is deeply dishonest. The fact is that the Irish people have themselves, in two sovereign referendums, with no outside interference, decided on the basis on which Irish soldiers can be involved in peacekeeping missions. I want to address Fianna F\u00e1il TDs, who have the power to stop this Bill. I call on each and every one of them to do so tonight. The triple lock is Fianna F\u00e1il. The triple lock is Fianna F\u00e1il history. \u00c9amon de Valera, the founder of Fianna F\u00e1il, a Taoiseach and a President, put peaceful settlement of international disputes into the Constitution. He declared Irish neutrality in 1939. Bertie Ahern, a former Fianna F\u00e1il Taoiseach, put the triple lock into the Nice treaty. Brian Cowen, a former Fianna F\u00e1il Taoiseach, put the triple lock into the Lisbon treaty. Bertie Ahern says he is opposed to the abolition of the triple lock. \u00c9amon \u00d3 Cu\u00edv, a former Minister and deputy leader of Fianna F\u00e1il, says he is opposed to the abolition of the triple lock. Deputy Willie O'Dea, former Minister for Defence, says he is opposed to the abolition of triple lock. Even the current Taoiseach has said that the triple lock is at the core of our neutrality. The question for Fianna F\u00e1il TDs tonight is whether they will disown their own history-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Erin McGreehan I will tell you about history."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy -----or whether they going to stand up for neutrality and for the triple lock, which is a core value for Fianna F\u00e1il. This is a watershed moment for Fianna F\u00e1il tonight."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joe Neville","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joe-Neville.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joe Neville This is obviously a difficult debate for many and it is very important that we do get to have this discussion on the importance of democracy. It also shows us the importance of legislation and this is ultimately what we are deciding tonight. The ability of Irish people to make their own decisions is something that has been forgotten on the far side of the House. I represent North Kildare, which is a constituency with a high number of Defence Forces personnel, some of whom are based in the Curragh and many others who travel into Dublin on a daily basis, to Baldonnel or different areas around Dublin. It is important that we are making reforms. I thank the Minister, Deputy McEntee, for her work and her Department's work on reform of disciplinary procedures. This is badly needed and they are fully welcomed. The main topic of contention we are talking about in this debate is the triple lock. The triple lock allows five permanent members of the UN to decide where we send our troops. These countries are China, Russia, France, the UK and the United States. They get to tell us what we do with our troops and how to run our country. Our country was founded over 100 years ago and it has changed, and we have a proud tradition. We have a tradition of helping other countries. We have a tradition of sending peacekeeping forces as we wished and we were neutral even prior to the UN. This will change nothing. Instead, these changes will renew our ability to pursue an independent, neutral foreign policy, where we as an Irish people decide, and do not have the decisions made in the Kremlin, Washington or even London. The Opposition would typically have significant issues with it if they were making decisions for our State. We have the ability to act what translates as our values into actions. The people whom Irish personnel have protected have looked at Irish people as peacekeepers and as some of the best people they could ever hope to have. There is no reason we cannot continue this tradition, However, we have been stopped from having this tradition and could well be stopped in the future, and this is what we are trying to change here tonight. We are willing to act in the defence of international law and the UN Charter and not just speak about it. We are willing to help where we can. Ireland will remain a neutral country as we pride ourselves on being one and nothing will change in this regard."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Erin McGreehan It is very worrying to listen to some of the contributions from the Opposition on the Bill. It is absolutely incredible that our Opposition disrespect and do not trust our Defence Forces, do not trust our independent State and do not trust our sovereignty, and want others to make decisions for us. This independence and the proud tradition of neutrality our State proclaims is of huge significance. I hold these things very dear as does everyone on these benches. The only people I hear suggesting that Ireland is about to abandon its neutrality are Members of the Opposition and shame on them all. I have sat outside and inside these Houses with some of the very same people, listening to them pontificate about misinformation, disinformation and the dangers of frightening people with things that simply are not true. I agree with them. Misinformation is a serious issue but surely the same standards should apply to all issues and not just when it is politically expedient for people and when it suits the Opposition. Frightening people about Irish neutrality makes a great headline but does not make for good politics and certainly does not make for honest debate. From a Louth perspective, and I will give Deputy Healy a little bit of history, the former Minister for defence and for external affairs, Frank Aiken, who is often spoken about as a reason to keep the triple lock, spoke about the rationale."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy Fianna F\u00e1il history."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Erin McGreehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","memberCode":"Erin-McGreehan.S.2020-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Erin McGreehan I would say that he would absolutely hate that there is a foreign influence on \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. Frank Aiken oversaw the first peacekeeping mission without the triple lock. Was he not neutral? Were our soldiers doing something wrong without the triple lock? Absolutely not. During his many years at the UN, just like he fought for independence, he spent much of his political life championing the rights of independence of small sovereign states. He was very clear about Ireland's international position. He said at the UN that we are not in NATO but that did not mean that we should be regarded as neutral. I disagree with him on that because we are neutral. He also stated that on the contrary, we have emphasised over and over again that we are on the side of western democracies. That is something we do not hear very often and it is from our own Frank Aiken. He understood perfectly well that military neutrality did not mean political neutrality. He understood that Ireland could stand on its own two feet, remain outside military alliances and still have a strong voice in the world. Above all, he understood sovereignty. He was a man who commanded soldiers during the struggle for independence and lived through partition. He understood better than most what it meant for Ireland to make its own decisions. I believe we did a disservice to Frank Aiken's legacy by accepting a system that would allow foreign governments to have an effective veto over certain decisions concerning the deployment of our own \u00d3glaigh na h\u00c9ireann. I do not believe this is what Frank Aiken envisaged for our independent State. There is so much to this that I support but we cannot put up with hypocrisy from the Opposition. I am sure we are well-versed with the hypocrisy we heard from them today. The main Opposition party are often infantilised by the Brits and of course they do not want to take the Brits out of politics. They want decisions to be at the mercy of London, Moscow, Washington, Beijing or Paris."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Ward I actually agree with Frank Aiken, which is not necessarily a comfortable position for me to be in, but I do not think we are neutral either. I am glad we are not neutral. We are not neutral on Gaza. We are not neutral on Ukraine."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn That is political neutrality."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Ward We are not neutral on human rights abuses or breaches of international law and I am glad that we are not. I am much prouder of a country that is willing to stand up and speak for what is right and lawful than anything else. I do, however, believe in our military non-alignment. That is a principle close to the hearts of the Irish people. The notion that young Irish men and women would be sent off to fight in foreign wars is something we abhor, and that is not what this is about. We have an incredibly proud tradition of peacekeeping. It is not peace enforcement, but peacekeeping. The reality, however, is that our policy on peacekeeping and our ability to engage in peacekeeping is determined not by us as a sovereign State of more than 100 years standing but by a committee of many countries, some of whom are rogue states, in my opinion, sitting around the Security Council table. Countries like Russia, China and even now the United States are not reliable partners in terms of international peace. They are certainly not countries I want deciding whether our troops can serve in a peacekeeping mission abroad or not. We are grown-ups now. Let us behave like grown-ups. Let us take back our self-imposed restrictions on our ability to determine where our military goes. Let us take them back and decide where we are. Let us be also clear, however, that a decision to remove the triple lock is not a vote of no confidence in the UN. Deputy O\u2019Gorman is quite right. The UN is really important for Ireland and our role in the UN is really important and it is something that people feel very strongly about and are very proud of but the removal of the triple lock would actually allow us to make sovereign decisions as a sovereign country and a member of the global community. Additionally, one of the red herrings in this debate is the Seville Declaration from 2002. The Seville Declaration did not create the triple lock nor, in fact, did it enshrine it in Irish law. We did that ourselves. The Seville Declaration was the European Union, at our request, giving an assurance to Irish people that our policy on military non-alignment would be respected. That policy is not changing. That neutrality is not changing, as some people are saying. People are saying that if we remove the triple lock, the Irish Government will be able to make a decision about where troops are deployed. Yes, it will. As the sovereign representatives of the people of Ireland, it will."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy The people have spoken already. They have said it twice."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Ward Deputy Healy is the one who said that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy Twice."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Ward Let Deputy Healy tell me this. I ask him to identify the party in this Chamber that is proposing to be involved in wars abroad. I ask him to identify the group in this Chamber that is telling us we want to get rid of this policy of military non-alignment. There is no such group. There is no such party. How can the Deputy have a fear that is well-founded that we are somehow going to trample on that policy of military non-alignment when nobody in here is suggesting we should do that? What we should do instead is trust in the sovereignty of this Chamber and the Government of this country to make serious decisions for this country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Before I go to Deputy Daly, Deputy Healy is incapable of affording other Members the respect of listening to their contribution without interruption. If he cannot do that, he can watch the debate in his office. He is free to leave. I call Deputy Martin Daly."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Daly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Martin-Daly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Martin Daly Ireland is a mature representative republic and democracy, and we fought long and hard for our independence and the right to make decisions as a sovereign nation. It is simply inexplicable to me that the Opposition is purporting to oppose a situation where we are going to take back that right to make our own decisions by our own public representatives, our elected representatives, and an elected Government. We are uniquely positioned in the world as the only country that subcontracts out our decision-making to a third party. That third party is now not just a group of democratic nations but a group of nations not functioning normally. We have got Russia, China and the United States under Trump. Another part of this I cannot understand, again from Sinn F\u00e9in, is that we allow the United Kingdom to make decisions about where we deploy our troops, our Defence Forces, on a peacekeeping mission. There is a conflation of this argument with the loss of neutrality. The suggestion that the reform of the triple lock, or taking back the triple lock, is the loss of neutrality is simply a false narrative. We are not neutral. We are politically aligned to the European Union and to democracies in the West. We are militarily neutral, and rightly so. We have very little to offer militarily to any third force if we were so minded. I just want to reiterate what my colleagues have said on this side of the House. The suggestion that any party in this D\u00e1il, in this Parliament, is suggesting that we are going to embark on wars of adventure and send our young people across Europe or elsewhere in the world to participate in wars of adventure with empires is simply not credible. Abolishing the triple lock does not mean that we abandon multilateralism. We should also think about our own armed forces, our Defence Forces, in terms of their contribution as peacekeepers. It is a very proud tradition but, most importantly, it allows our Defence Forces to develop experience and training that keeps them in full readiness, rather than being cocooned in Ireland. People have quoted history. Se\u00e1n Lemass was absolutely clear that we were not politically neutral. He was absolutely clear about that but we are militarily neutral. The repeal of the triple lock will not affect that position."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness Miche\u00e1l Martin called the triple lock the core of Ireland\u2019s military neutrality, and now he wants to get rid of it. The question must be asked: whose interest is the Taoiseach serving and what price is he willing to ask young Irish people to pay for his personal ambitions? The triple lock means Irish troops can only be sent overseas as part of an international force with Government sign-off, with D\u00e1il approval and with the UN mandate. Our military neutrality keeps us out of those military blocs and those conflicts that are not ours to fight. It prevents craven Irish leaders falling to outside pressure and sending our young people to fight in military missions shaped by the big powers. It gives us the credibility to speak up for peace, for justice and international law, and it has long underpinned our proud tradition of peacekeeping. The UN absolutely needs reform but do not use its limitations as an excuse to scrap our neutrality. Spare us this talk of sovereignty as well. We remember Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael bending to the Troika. We remember Ministers gutting legislation after late-night phone calls from the embassy. Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael were paid off with cushy jobs, or more often, just a few slaps on the back. The Irish people do not trust the Government to stand up to international pressure. At Nice and Lisbon, the people were asked to vote with guarantees of neutrality, including the triple lock. Now, the Government wants to remove that safeguard without asking the people. It can tie itself up in legal niceties but why is it afraid of a referendum? If it really believes it is right, let the Irish people make their decision. Put it to the people because Irish neutrality belongs to the Irish people, and not to Miche\u00e1l Martin, not to Simon Harris, and not to this or any Government."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Martin Kenny","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Martin-Kenny.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Martin Kenny The United Nations is a vital international body that so many countries around the world pay such respect to. It was founded after the two World Wars to try to ensure we would never be in that place again. It is so important that we remain part of that and continue to be an integral part of that whole idea that the countries of the world can come together to ensure that peace can be delivered. That is why it is so important that we keep the triple lock, that we keep our independence and that we keep the United Nations as central to that. The United Nations needs reform. Of course, it is not perfect but the distance we see ourselves travelling now is towards some kind of European military union, which is on the cards. If we look around Europe and ask what that context will look like in the future, in many of the countries, the key countries in Europe, which are the power blocs of Europe, Germany, France and Italy, we see very fascist regimes potentially coming into power. If we are going to be part of that, where is that influence going to bring us? Where is it going to see Ireland end up and, indeed, so many other countries in the world who look to the people we talk about as being the problem with the triple lock, the Putins and the Trumps of the world? They are the heroes of many of the people who could be in power in Europe in the next decade. We have to be very careful what we sign up to and what we move away from. It is vitally important that we understand that the Irish people of all generations, from young to old, recognise that our neutrality is absolutely vital. They see, as they have been told by Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael and other Governments in the past, that the triple lock is an integral part of that. To dismantle that and take it away is simply duplicity. We cannot do that. If the Government wants to do that, it should hold a referendum and ask the people. I know what the answer will be, as does everyone else, and that is why this Government will not do that. It will try to have a sleight of hand to remove the triple lock behind people\u2019s backs and that simply is not good enough. The Government can use any excuse it likes but it should recognise the people of Ireland do not want this to happen. If it is going to happen, put it to a referendum and see what they say. The Government will get its answer."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins The core of this Bill is about making it easier for Irish troops to be deployed overseas. For this to happen, Independent Ireland is very strong in its belief that the people of Ireland will have to have their say. This would be by holding a referendum, simply. What is the Minister afraid of? If she is convinced it is right, is she saying the people of Ireland are stupid? No, put it to the people and let them make their minds up and then we will walk clear here, if that is acceptable to the people of Ireland, but it will not be accepted by the people of Ireland. It will be totally rejected. The Government is afraid to put it to them and shamefully is pushing this through. This is why Independent Ireland cannot support this in its current form. For decades Ireland's long-standing approach has been built around what people know as the triple lock - Government approval, D\u00e1il approval and United Nations authorisation. This legislation removes one of those safeguards. The Government argues that the United Nations system can be blocked by vetoes and that Ireland needs greater flexibility but the answer to frustrations within the UN cannot be to weaken our own protections. The United Nations mandate requirement has always provided an important test of international legitimacy. It ensured that Irish troops were participating in missions that had broad international backing rather than becoming involved in operations driven by the interests of larger powers and political blocs. Once that safeguard is removed the threshold for participation becomes lower. The Government can call it reform but the public will see it for what it is - a significant change in how decisions are made about sending Irish servicemen and women overseas. We should always be honest with the people. This Bill does not abolish military neutrality and does not sign Ireland up to a military alliance. But it does weaken one of the key protections that has helped reassure generations of Irish people that our Defence Forces will only serve overseas under clear international authority. This is a very significant step. I am equally concerned about the reduction in parliamentary oversight. Under the current arrangements, deployment above 12 personnel generally requires D\u00e1il approval. This Bill increases that threshold to 50 personnel, which is more than a fourfold increase. The Government says this is needed for operational flexibility. If that is the case then let the Government make the evidence-based case for it. What we should not do is give future governments broader powers to deploy substantial numbers of troops overseas while reducing the direct role of the D\u00e1il. Informing an Oireachtas committee after a decision has been made is not the same as obtaining the approval of the elected representatives of the Irish people before that decision is made. Those are very different things. Independent Ireland believes that reforms to discipline, accountability, evacuation operations and the protection of Irish citizens abroad should be dealt with on their own merits. Those measures should not be used to justify the removal of the UN element of the triple lock or the dilution of parliamentary scrutiny. Our Defence Forces have built a proud reputation throughout the world as peacekeepers. They deserve clear rules, clear accountability and public confidence in the missions they undertake. For those reasons, I call on the Government to reconsider these proposals, and retain the requirements for a UN authorisation and maintain strong D\u00e1il oversight over the overseas military deployments. Ireland's neutrality, the authority of this House and the confidence of the Irish people should not be weakened by this legislation. When I look around I do not see the Independents that are supporting the Government. Are they going to support this nonsense tonight? Are they going to railroad over the Irish people's viewpoints of this? There is a national outcry. I call on every Independent that supports this Government to stand up tonight and support the people of Ireland and vote this out, and vote for the ordinary people who are begging them to do so because they know what the Government is up to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Fitzmaurice","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Fitzmaurice.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Michael-Fitzmaurice.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill. I was thinking today that it is no wonder the public are losing complete faith in politics considering what the present leader of this country stated in 2013 or 2014 about the triple lock and then he tries to defend something today. That is hypocrisy, in my opinion. You do not do that. People lose faith if you act that way. We remember the Nice treaty. The medicine we seem to dose out to the Irish people is that if they do not what is believed to be what Europe wants then we will go back to the polls again for a second time. We have done it in two treaties. We told people not worry, that we will protect X, Y and Z. What have we done? What have we done on the migration side of it? Under the Lisbon treaty we have decided to give what we had away. We had a right to decide ourselves. What have we done under the Nice treaty? The same thing when it comes to this and then you wonder why people do not vote and lose hope in politicians right across the board. Look at the United Nations. At the moment we have a few guys around the world. Donald Trump is doing what he wants. Putin will do what he wants. Netanyahu will do what he wants. Someone will come out and say it is a war crime, but every single country in Europe let a plane fly right across for a guy to go to America, across their airspace, and they said nothing. They closed their eyes. We were complicit with those people but still we will go out in suits and shake hands, talk to each other and look important, as if it is a big deal. Ireland made a big thing out of getting a seat at the United Nations table and now we are saying we need to pull things back from them. You would wonder are we talking out of two sides of our mouth or what are we playing at. You would also wonder what are we doing when a few years ago, in the Taoiseach's own constituency, we did not have the personnel for the vessels that were actually to support and protect our country. That was some statement. At the moment, under the EU Presidency, there are other vessels offshore. The first thing you would want to do when you go looking after defence is to start protecting your own backdoor but we are not doing it at the moment. We are reliant and we have decided to rely on others. Imagine, we had vessels down in Cork and because of pay and conditions people had left and walked away, and then we talk about ourselves as if we are going to be the Messiah that is going to keep peace around the world, that we are going to send X amount of people and they are going to look after it, while at the same time when they talk about drones, when there are people coming into this country, supposedly drones going around beside them, we cannot give or write a report on them, and no-one knows where they came from, what they did, whether they disappeared and what happened to them. We do not know but then we are going to make sure that we will give away any bit. Who is calling the shots? I would love to know what is the endgame in all of this. Who is promised what? That is the answer that I would love to know and it would be a sad day if we decided tonight to give away this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ken O'Flynn When the people rejected the Nice treaty and then the Lisbon treaty, they did it on a promise that the triple lock would stay - a UN mandate, a Government decision and the adoption and approval of this House. That promise won the vote of subsequent referendums afterwards. I know because I canvassed for them at the time and that was the deal, the deal this Government is trying to break tonight. In 2013, the Taoiseach told this House that the triple lock was at the core of Irish neutrality. The Fianna F\u00e1il 2020 manifesto committed itself to keeping it. The reality is that nobody has voted or given a mandate for this legislative change. We must then ask ourselves in this House the following. Who and what has changed the Taoiseach's mind? It is not coming from Dublin, it certainly is not coming from Cork and it looks like to me that it is either coming from Brussels or perhaps Paris. We must, therefore, look at the old quote by Cicero: \" Cui bono ?\", \"Who benefits?\". We know one thing for sure, Irish neutrality does not benefit. Everyone in this building knows that the Fianna F\u00e1il backbenchers are uneasy in this debate tonight. We hear it in the corridors and the whispers in the tearooms. I am surprised when people invoke the name for Frank Aiken in the House. I imagine that man is spinning in his grave when he looks at Fianna F\u00e1il today and who leads Fianna F\u00e1il today. We will see what those backbenchers who are shouting and roaring in the corridors here tonight about their leader, what they will do when the division is called but I would not hold my breath for any of them to grow a spine. After all, we saw what they did during the presidential election. Our neutrality has been one of Ireland's defending and defining strengths since the foundation of this State. It has helped establish the identity of the State as an independent nation that is committed to peacemaking, diplomacy and international law."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Time is up. Deputy Paul Lawless."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ken O'Flynn If the Government is secure on this then call a referendum."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Time is up, thank you. Deputy Paul Lawless."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless Irish neutrality and the triple lock belong to the Irish people. Miche\u00e1l Martin said a number of years ago that the triple lock was the core part of our neutrality. Why has the Taoiseach now changed his mind? That is the question we must understand because it is not coming from the Irish people, it is not coming from the Opposition, and it is certainly not coming from the backbenches of Fianna F\u00e1il. What is the interest here? Is it a plush job in the next number of years? It is not coming from the Irish people. In fact, the Irish people effectively passed the triple lock by way of a referendum. Over 20 years ago the people voted against the Nice treaty, and they did so because they had concerns about neutrality and the potential of the erosion of Irish neutrality. To allay those concerns, the Taoiseach at the time, Fianna F\u00e1il Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, guaranteed the triple lock in law. Subsequently, the second Nice treaty was passed as a result of the reassurance provided to the Irish people at the time. Essentially, the triple lock was passed by way of referendum. That is what happened. We all know that is why the second Nice treaty was passed. We in Aont\u00fa are very clear. If this was passed by way of referendum, let us put it to the people by way of referendum. Let the people have their decision. I have listened to speeches about sovereignty from Government TDs. Sovereignty is letting the people decide. The people should decide this by way of referendum. The Minister talks about sovereignty but this is the same Government that handed Brussels control over our migration policy. The EU migration and asylum pact was passed by this Government and decisions will now will be made by Brussels in terms of how many asylum seekers we will take and what fines we may face if we cannot take them. Is that what the Minister means by sovereignty? The treatment by this Government of the Irish people and the absolute nonsense it is feeding them is an utter disgrace. What about the people involved in fisheries in this country and how they were treated? Where is their sovereignty? The Government again handed control over to Brussels. The truth is that the Irish people support the triple lock, and that is why the Government will not put this to a referendum. It has absolutely nothing to do with sovereignty. The Taoiseach knows that this would not pass by way of referendum and that is why he has called a quick vote here tonight."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn People around the country are absolutely shocked with what is happening today. This Bill is one of the most shocking attacks on Irish democracy I have ever seen. This Bill puts the Irish Government directly in conflict with the democratic decisions of the people of this country. Irish neutrality is one of the most important foreign policies of this country. The policy of peace is more important than ever. This is a time of great instability. The whole world is starting to tool up in terms of militarism, and the EU has morphed from a peace project to one that is openly preparing for war. The second importance of Irish neutrality is the issue of sovereignty. The Irish Government is actively seeking to outsource Irish foreign and military policy to the EU. The EU is pushing hard for the development of an EU defence union and ultimately, an EU army. The EU military hawks are circling, and Miche\u00e1l Martin is bending the knee. Macron has stated that 26 countries have now pledged to put boots on the ground in Ukraine, and the Government radically seeks to speed up the accession of Ukraine into the EU. This Bill could put Irish men and women in the way of conflict, and if we go down this road, ultimately, this country will have very little say over the decisions that are made. Small countries are sceptical at the intentions of military blocks because military blocks make military decisions on the basis of their own self-interest and economic objectives. To look at another small country, for example, Denmark participated in Iraq as well as in the war in Afghanistan. It lost as many soldiers per capita as the US. The Government will dress this up in the whole idea of peace, but peace is a euphemism. Remember that America attacked Iraq on the basis of peace, and it led to the deaths of 600,000 people. The Government is stating, and this is such rubbish, that the reason this is happening is because the triple lock puts Russia, the US, and China in charge. The whole idea of the triple lock is that when military blocks such as Russia, China and the US are in opposition in the security council, taking sides with either group is, by definition, military alignment. Miche\u00e1l Martin is shredding the democratic will of the Irish people. We know that the triple lock is directly linked to the second Nice referendum. However, Miche\u00e1l Martin is also shredding the core values of Fianna F\u00e1il. What is the difference between Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael if we take this away? It is interesting because Miche\u00e1l Martin is on his last legs as leader of Fianna F\u00e1il, but he is acting as a wrecking ball to the core values of Fianna F\u00e1il on his way out. I appeal to backbenchers in Fianna F\u00e1il to stand up for peace and neutrality, and vote against this Fine Gael Bill."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty Like others, I value our neutrality, and insofar as it is reflected in our Constitution, we have a number of checks and balances. Article 29 commits Ireland to peace, international justice and the peaceful settlement of disputes. Following the Lisbon Treaty, it also explicitly provides that Ireland shall not adopt any decision relating to a common defence of the European Union. I am comfortable with these arrangements remaining as they are, although some argue that Ireland should be prepared to demonstrate greater military solidarity with other European states, particularly the smaller Baltic nations and others like Poland if they are faced with real and serious aggression, and that aggression is becoming a higher risk. It is a legitimate debate to have, even within our own European affairs committee. However, it would represent a profound change in Irish policy, and that sort of thing should only occur after a proper discussion. That type of debate should ultimately go to a vote of the Irish people. At the same time, I acknowledge that there is a practical issue with the current triple lock mechanism, as I said in previous contributions, because the UN Security Council can and has been paralysed by the veto of permanent members, and that is likely to go on for quite a while. Any General Assembly recommendations are not legally binding, so if we want to have peacekeeping missions which might otherwise command broad international support, we have to find other ways around it. We have earned enormous respect for our participation in operations over the years. We have served with distinction in Lebanon, the Golan Heights, and Chad. We sacrificed our lives in these and other places like Congo, and we should ensure that genuine peacekeeping operations can continue into the future. I am going to put out something I have raised before, which is that while I am not wedded to any single mechanism, one option to keep a triple lock, if we get rid of that of the UN, is to require a supermajority in both Houses of the Oireachtas. I mentioned 80% at one stage, and perhaps that is too high. Perhaps it should be two thirds. We need to have a chat about it, but the assent of D\u00e1il and Seanad \u00c9ireann before troops are deployed on missions which currently require triple lock assent could be a workable solution. It could not be said that the Government of the day, with a couple of people in the majority, can make such decisions. It needs wider debate, and that is the political consensus as representative democracy. Obviously, we need to discuss other constitutional issues down the line in terms of changing any sort of military alliance within the European context. We cannot separate this debate from the condition of our Defence Forces, as we have so many long-standing deficiencies in terms of recruitment, retention, abuse of members, gaps in maritime surveillance and air-defence radar coverage. The report on the Commission of the Defence Forces highlighted the need for substantial reform and investment. We also had the issues of pay and conditions. This week, the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers expressed huge frustration over delays in delivering promised improvements and pointed to a ruling upheld by the Council of Europe that Defence Forces personnel are not being adequately compensated through pay or time off for overtime and public holiday works. They are earning as little as \u20ac4 per hour for certain duties that, in any other circumstance, would be called overtime. Whatever our views on this triple lock debate, we should have common agreement in this House that the men and women who serve our State deserve fair remuneration and conditions. I am paired tonight, so I cannot get to vote on Second Stage. As is, I would vote against it, but I look forward, assuming it is passed, to having further discussions on this matter."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Lahart There is so much hysteria on the Opposition benches today, so let me reassure people from the outset that his debate is not about ending Irish neutrality, it is not about joining NATO and it definitely is not about creating a European army. This debate is about one thing. It is about our independence and whether we in Ireland should retain the sovereign right to decide for ourselves when and where we participate in peacekeeping missions. For decades, Ireland has earned an international reputation far beyond its size through the courage and professionalism of its Defence Forces. No country in the world has a longer unbroken record of service in UN peacekeeping than Ireland. Every day since June 1958, Irish men and women have served under the blue helmet in the pursuit of peace. This is not just part of our history; it is part of who we are as a nation - a peaceful nation. However, the uncomfortable truth is that the triple lock means we cannot do that any more. The triple lock was meant to ensure continuity in peacekeeping and sadly that is no longer the world we live in. Today, it does quite the opposite. The Security Council can effectively veto whether or where Ireland sends its Defence Forces. The Opposition cannot credibly claim to defend Irish sovereignty. Sinn F\u00e9in, the party whose very name means \"ourselves alone\", would leave Ireland dependent on a system where Russia or China can determine where Ireland sends its peacekeepers. Sinn F\u00e9in, ironically, would allow Britain more say than our Parliament over where we deploy our peacekeepers. This House is elected by the people of Ireland. The Irish Government is elected by Members of this House and ultimately the Opposition does not trust the elected representatives of the people. If you believe in Irish democracy, you should have the confidence to allow democratic decisions to be made here in this House by Members sent here by the people. Let me reassure everyone again. When it comes to deploying peacekeepers or Irish troops, any deployment will still have to comply with the United Nations Charter and international law. A majority of elected representatives in this House will still be required to support it, and Government approval will still be required. The Opposition is trying to confuse and bewilder people. A number of things can be true at the same time. It is true that our commitment to the UN is unwavering and no Government has defended the UN more than the Government of Ireland, as evidenced by its defence of UNRWA. It is also true that the desire of Ireland to continue its valuable-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan) Your time is up, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Lahart -----work as an international peacekeeper remains steadfast."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan) You are eating into your colleagues' time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Lahart Finally, it is true that we equally want-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan) Deputy, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Lahart","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"John-Lahart.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Lahart -----the preservation of our tradition of military neutrality."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy The triple lock is a mechanism that governs the deployment of our Army personnel overseas. The reality is it is a system that is broken and the legislation being brought forward by the Minister is about fixing it. These changes will renew our peacekeeping. Tonight I think of my cousin who serves in the Defence Forces. Marie Carrigy served in the Golan Heights, Congo and Lebanon and is currently abroad serving on a UN mission. If we do not fix a broken triple lock, Ireland will no longer be able to contribute to peacekeeping in the way we have done for the past 60 years. From 1972 until the barracks closed in 2009, hundreds of members from Sean Connolly Barracks in Longford served as Defence Forces members on peacekeeping duties, particularly in Lebanon. One of the most recent deployments to Lebanon was led by Lieutenant Colonel Mark Lennon with a significant number of members who are now in Custume Barracks in Athlone. What the triple lock does is allow the five permanent members of the UN Security Council to veto where we send our peacekeepers. They dictate what members of our Defence Forces do. We must be able to make our own democratic decisions about where we send our peacekeepers. Decisions about where we send them should be made in Ireland by the democratically elected D\u00e1il, as Deputy Lahart has said, not by Russia, the United States or Vladimir Putin. Strong safeguards will remain. It will need Government approval, D\u00e1il oversight and strict adherence to the UN Charter and international law. These changes will renew our ability to pursue an independent and neutral foreign policy and an ability to act in a way that translates our values as a country into actions. There is a reassertion and strengthening of our neutrality because this will allow us to choose where we send our peacekeepers in defence of the principles of the UN charter, which we have done for decades. The people Irish personnel have protected need countries that are willing to act in defence of international law and the UN Charter, not just words."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eamon Scanlon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","memberCode":"Eamon-Scanlon.S.2002-09-12","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eamon Scanlon I am regularly contacted regarding the triple lock and fully recognise that strongly held beliefs exist on all sides of this debate. I have met members of the Defence Forces who strongly support the proposed changes and I have heard firmly held opposition from others. In my view, legitimate arguments have been advanced on both sides and I do not believe sufficient clear and accessible information has been provided to the public on either the existing triple lock arrangements or the proposed reforms. I was one of those people who sought additional time to consider the Bill given its significance for Ireland's longstanding approach to peacekeeping and foreign policy. Having carefully considered the legislation, I believe it is important to focus on what the proposed changes actually involve. Ireland has a proud and respected record of participation in the United Nations peacekeeping missions and nothing in this legislation diminishes that commitment. The legislation relates to peacekeeping operations and not a change to Ireland's policy of military neutrality. A central issue is the current requirement for a UN Security Council mandate before Ireland can participate in certain peacekeeping missions. Under the existing system, a permanent member of the Security Council can effectively prevent Ireland's participation through the use of its veto. The concern is a significant factor behind the proposed legislation. The Bill would remove the requirement for a UN Security Council mandate when deploying personnel to an international force engaged in peace operation. The proposed changes do not diminish Ireland's commitment to the United Nations. Rather, they address the ability of individual permanent members of the Security Council to exercise a veto over Irish participation. The Sinn F\u00e9in motion does not adequately reflect the increasingly complex international security environment or the difficult foreign security and defence policy decisions facing the State. It also incorrectly categorises change to the triple lock as a change to Ireland's longstanding policy of military neutrality. Ireland\u2019s neutrality is defined by our non-membership of military alliances and common mutual defence arrangements. That position will not change. The proposed amendments will strengthen Ireland's ability to pursue independent foreign policy by removing the power of permanent members of the UN Security Council to veto such Irish sovereign decisions. In particular, neither Russia nor any other permanent Security Council member would be able to prevent Ireland from participating in peacekeeping missions approved by the Oireachtas. Any deployment of Defence Forces personnel overseas would still require Government and D\u00e1il approval. The legislation does not alter Ireland's traditional policy of military neutrality, nor does it affect the constitutional protections and guarantees endorsed by the people in the Nice and Lisbon treaty referendums regarding participation in common European defence arrangements."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne The Minister and Minister of State are welcome. I agree with a lot of what has been said on all sides. The United Nations needs reform. If we were establishing the United Nations today, I do not think anyone would construct it in a way that there would be five countries with a veto, although one may argue that some of those countries would not join a body like the United Nations if they did not have such a veto. It is not a perfect body, but it is an important one that is respected in many parts of the world. We have had a strong voice in that regard. I agree that neutrality is important in the view of Irish people. We have a proud record as a militarily neutral country. I am of the view that our neutrality is not impacted by the changes and reforms being proposed today in relation to the triple lock. As a former member of the defence and security committee, I sat through the pre-legislative scrutiny of this Bill, when we heard testimonies over a long number of sessions. I am happy to be able to support this Bill on foot of that. I believe that strong safeguards will remain - Government approval, D\u00e1il oversight and strict adherence to the United Nations Charter and international law. Ireland remains committed to peacekeeping principles guided by international law, and that has to be the basis of our foreign and defence policy. T\u00e1 veto ag gach ceann de na c\u00faig buanbhaill de chuid Chomhairle Sl\u00e1nd\u00e1la na N\u00e1isi\u00fan Aontaithe. Cialla\u00edonn s\u00e9 seo gur f\u00e9idir le haon cheann acu bac a chur ar chinnt\u00ed an Chomhairle Sl\u00e1nd\u00e1la, lena n-\u00e1ir\u00edtear cinnt\u00ed a bhaineann le s\u00edoch\u00e1na\u00edocht agus oibr\u00edochta\u00ed sl\u00e1nd\u00e1la idirn\u00e1isi\u00fanta. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 ag cur bac ar fh\u00f3rsa\u00ed cosanta na misin sh\u00edoch\u00e1nta a dh\u00e9anamh, a bhfuil siad br\u00f3d\u00fail astu le blianta fada. N\u00edor tugadh cead d\u2019aon mhisean nua s\u00edoch\u00e1na\u00edochta \u00f3 2014 mar gheall ar an ts\u00e1inn sa Chomhairle Sl\u00e1nd\u00e1la. B\u2019\u00e9igean d\u00fainn tarraingt siar \u00f3 oibr\u00edocht chabhlaigh sa Mhe\u00e1nmhuir mar chuaigh cead\u00fa Chomhairle Sl\u00e1nd\u00e1la na N\u00e1isi\u00fan Aontaithe in \u00e9ag. Ag deireadh na bliana, beidh orainn tarraingt siar \u00f3n Liob\u00e1in tar \u00e9is beagnach 50 bliain. There is and has been an impact due to the veto, not just on new missions since 2014 but on the continuation of some of the missions that we are part of. One in particular is the mission in Lebanon, where we have a proud record of peacekeeping, and which encourages many people to join the Defence Forces in order to be part of the peacekeeping forces overseas. Many people they know, perhaps family members, would have served on such missions. It is important that reform allows the democratically elected Irish Government to be able to send peacekeeping forces on such missions."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin does not own Irish neutrality. Irish neutrality is the cherished possession of each and every citizen on our island. The leader of Fianna F\u00e1il may hold the title of An Taoiseach, but he would do well to remember that this is a title bestowed on him by the very Irish people who own our neutrality. The promise of neutrality was secured, ironclad, in the clauses of the Nice and Lisbon treaties that Ireland and Sinn F\u00e9in fought so hard to secure. To go back on that promise of the triple lock is an affront to the democratically expressed wish of the people, and to do so would bring shame to this House. Yet the Taoiseach continues to hurl insult after insult at the intelligence of the Irish people as he suggests that we simply do not understand the implications of the triple lock that we voted for. In May, an Teachta R\u00e9ada Cronin and I convened a very well-attended public meeting i gCill Dara on neutrality and the triple lock. It was very clear that our constituents understood and cherished the triple lock. The Nice and Lisbon treaties were supposed to put this question to bed. Yet here we are today, as the Taoiseach poses as judge, jury and executioner, forcing a political stroke on this House that will have ramifications on my constituents and around this island for years to come. The Taoiseach may view this Bill as a political game, as a win for himself on his imaginary scorecard, but for my constituents in Kildare, particularly the vast number who serve in the Defence Forces and their families, this is an affront to them. It is not for the Taoiseach to play politics with people\u2019s livelihoods and safety as he hurtles us towards war games with his pals in the EU and NATO. This House agonised over PESCO and the European common defence policy in order to protect our neutrality. The mind boggles at what has changed since then - that Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the abandonment of our cherished neutrality. N\u00ed le Rialtas na h\u00c9ireann neodracht na t\u00edre seo. N\u00ed liomsa \u00ed ach oiread. Is le muintir na h\u00c9ireann \u00ed agus is faoi mhuintir na h\u00c9ireann at\u00e1 s\u00e9 aon ghn\u00e9 di a athr\u00fa. Caithfidh aon athr\u00fa a thiocfaidh uirthi n\u00f3 ar an nglas triarach a chur go reifreann l\u00e1ithreach."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa If we go out on the street at this point in time and ask people what their view is on the triple lock, if we ask them their view on the idea of neutrality and an independent foreign policy for Ireland, we will find they have an absolute belief in that. We all know the history of Ireland. It is a history of occupation, persecution and colonialism at its abject worst, and we still deal with the issues of partition and the fact that Britain has a say in the Six Counties. We know what imperial misadventure looks like. That is why the Irish people have an absolute love of independent foreign policy. What they also have is an absolute respect for those who have engaged in peacekeeping. I think of the sacrifices that have been made by Michael McNeela, Se\u00e1n Rooney and many others. What are we doing if we move away from the triple lock? It reveals our intention and shows the world that we are not secure in our position of neutrality. It shows that we are not secure in our position on the necessity and importance of the UN mandate, with all the difficulties that exist today. Now is not the time to move away from multilateralism. Now is not the time to abandon international law. What we need to see, if this Government really wants to make this move, is that it has the bravery and courage to go to the Irish people. That will not happen because the Irish people have absolute support for an independent foreign policy, as well as an absolute fear of moving away from neutrality in a very dangerous world and of the particular moves that are being made by those who believe might is right."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mattie McGrath","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Mattie-McGrath.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mattie McGrath I approach this Bill with very serious concerns, particularly regarding the proposed changes to the triple lock mechanism and the direction of travel it signals for Irish foreign and defence policy. Let us be accurate and clear. Military neutrality is not some outdated concept that the teacher likes to talk about - or did a couple of years ago - that can be discerned according to the convenience of the Government. Neutrality has been a central pillar of the State since its foundation. It is part of who we are as a people. It has shaped our international reputation and allowed Ireland to be respected across the world as an honest broker, a peacekeeper and a humanitarian nation. I compliment our peacekeepers going back to the Congo and since then for the obair stairi\u00fail they did all over the world in very challenging situations. That is why the attempt to weaken and fundamentally alter safeguards surrounding the deployment of Irish troops overseas should not be decided solely within the walls of an teach sin, Leinster House. If the Government believes that the Irish people want a different approach to neutrality, then it should have the courage to say that and put that question directly to daoine na h\u00c9ireann, the Irish people. The Government's record with referendums has not been good in recent years, as the Aire agus Aire St\u00e1it will know - they are from the same constituency, Meath East. The people have consistently supported Ireland's neutral status. It is not the property of any Government Minister or political party. It belongs to daoine na h\u00c9ireann, the Irish people, and they should have the final say on any significant changes to the principles that underpin it. I am deeply concerned that the Government is seeking to chip away at democratic oversight and increase the threshold for D\u00e1il approval for deployments from 12 to 50 personnel, which is another little one that has been slipped in. We are told this is merely administrative. How could it be an administrative change to go from 12 to 50? It is a practical measure. The argument simply does not stand up. When it comes to sending the proud members of our Defence Forces abroad, democratic accountability should be strengthened, not lessened. I also have concerns regarding the expansion of missions outside traditional peacekeeping roles, including military security duties and close protection operations. I want the Defence Forces to be properly funded, which they are not, properly equipped and properly respected. As I said, its members have served us over many decades in many areas, and they need to be supported, not demonised and neglected by the Government. It is fine for Ministers to go over on St. Patrick\u2019s Day and tell them how great they are, but the Ministers have a different plan. This House must be very careful before dismantling safeguards that have served this country well for generations. If there is to be any fundamental change to the triple lock or Ireland's long-standing policy of military neutrality, the matter should be put before the people of Ireland. Anything less would be a travesty. The Government will not put it to the people. C\u00e9n f\u00e1th? Because it is afraid of its life of the people. The people elected the Government but they have grown tired of it. I served with the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, in the party. My father was a founding member of Fianna F\u00e1il. He served 14 months in prison during the War of Independence. He was a proud founding member. Fianna F\u00e1il has abandoned the principles of Se\u00e1n Lemass, Eamon de Valera and all our forefathers, including Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen. Fianna F\u00e1il Deputies would sell their soul now for sixpence at the corner of a street. The Taoiseach, Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin, wants to bring people with him on his journey that he started a few years ago. He held his workshops all over the country, kind of roadshows - you would think it was a circus coming to town. It was a circus. He was told but he did not listen. Bh\u00ed a chluasa d\u00fanta aige. He should have listened to the people. The Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, and I have debated this many times. I have stronger words to describe the Taoiseach but I will not use them here tonight, and what he is doing to the people of Ireland, to our reputation abroad, all in the self-interest of himself, the Minister of State, Deputy Dooley, and a few more capital beggars who want to be with him to get big jobs in Europe and further away, under the World Economic Forum or wherever else he can, and to hell with the people of Ireland. B\u00ed ag \u00e9isteacht le daoine na h\u00c9ireann. They are the people who put you in here. They pay your wages. Respect them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae I am glad to get the opportunity to speak on this. One of the big differences between Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael going back the years was that Fine Gael wanted to get rid of the triple lock and Fianna F\u00e1il did not. Even Deputy Miche\u00e1l Martin in 2013 said it was at the heart and core of our neutrality. I cannot understand how he has changed so much to be in line with Fine Gael. It seems to me that there is no reason for having two different names now because everything they are doing is so united. There is no difference in the world between them. When a referendum on one of the treaties was going against them, they came out and said that the triple lock would never be got rid of. Here we are tonight and the Government is proposing to do just that. It is very unfair for it to use its majority in this way. It has a majority and will win this vote. If the Government was so sure of what it is doing, why does it not call a referendum and let the people of Ireland decide? They are the people who put me, the Ministers opposite and all of us in here. Get them to give the answer as to whether they want to get rid of it. Everything they are doing is showing me that all they want is to be stuck and suiting von der Leyen. Every time she says something, they jump. I am very sorry that this is happening. I got hundreds of emails and phone calls telling me to vote against this tonight. I will be doing just that. I always believed in our neutrality. This is only another chip out of it now. The Taoiseach is saying the reason for getting rid of it is so he can be involved in all the peacekeeping he wants to be. That is not right. We are a sovereign State and we can send our troops to any part of the world."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne We cannot. The law prevents us."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae We are a sovereign State and we should be able to do just that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne The triple lock is stopping us."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae I will not interrupt the Minister of State, that is not the way that I was brought up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Byrne That is what we are trying to change."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae That is what the Government is saying but it is not right. It is the argument those opposite are using but it is just not right. Using this as an excuse to get rid of the triple lock is sacrilegious. Dev kept us out of the Second World War and kept our neutrality but the Deputies across from me will not do that. They would not have the guts to do something like that. It is very hurtful that the people of Ireland are being excluded from this massive decision. I cannot understand. I know there are backbenchers in Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael who are totally and absolutely against this. They just have to do what they are told. It is wrong to be forcing people who have their own long-held ideas. If the Government was fair about it, it would not be putting the Whip on those kind of fellas. If they will not give the people of Ireland a chance to decide, they should at least give one to the TDs around the country who fought hard to get elected and come here to do this job tonight, and not make them vote against their will. That is very wrong. It increases my idea that Deputies cannot represent the people the way they want to if they are not Independent because they will be forced to do what they do not want by the parties in power. There is no difference in the world now between Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael. Fine Gael wanted this all the time, at least the hierarchy of the party did. Fianna F\u00e1il did not. Here we are tonight, they are both joining forces to get rid of the triple lock. They are chipping away at our neutrality. We see other things that are happening. The CAP budget is being reduced because we are putting more into defence. That is God's honest truth. I am thinking of the farmers around Ireland, the fellas in the hills and glens of Kerry who I know, who are only barely surviving. By accepting this, and they are not standing up for the people in that either, those opposite are hurting their own people. Hundreds of people have been on to me to vote against this tonight and I will be doing just that. I am glad to be here to do that. I am very sorry that this is happening. It should have been put to a referendum and the people given a chance."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Carol Nolan T\u00e1 \u00e1thas orm an deis seo a fh\u00e1il labhairt ar an mBille Cosanta (Leas\u00fa), 2026. I am very concerned over this Bill. I strongly oppose it and will be voting against it tonight. Many in this House have the same concerns. I have received so much correspondence from my constituents. Only yesterday I spoke to many constituents in Edenderry and other areas in north Offaly and this was the topic of conversation. They wanted me to vote against the Bill. There is massive concern among people in this country. It is absolutely shameful that they do not have a say in this. The people of this country should have a say in such an important national issue. People are strongly opposed and very concerned. Like every Member of this House, I recognise that Europe faces significant security challenges. Conflict continues in multiple regions, as we know. Governments have a responsibility to assess those risks at all times and to ensure that their citizens are protected. Acknowledging those realities does not oblige us to abandon long-standing principles that have served this State well. In the past, Eamon de Valera was very strong on this principle of neutrality. It is shameful to see that our neutrality is being chipped away. Periods of uncertainty are precisely when we should be more careful about dismantling the safeguards that were established for good reason and have served us well. What concerns me most of all is that the debate surrounding this legislation has become increasingly detached from a broader discussion about the direction in which Europe is moving. Across the European Union, defence spending is increasing at an unprecedented rate. EU member state defence expenditure is projected to rise from approximately \u20ac259 billion in 2021 to \u20ac454 billion in 2026, while the European Commission defence initiative seeks to mobilise more than \u20ac800 billion in additional defence-related investment. I am not against investment in our own Defence Forces, which of course should have been done, or military spending in general. I wonder about the agenda behind it all because they are not putting as much effort into a CAP budget or ensuring food security. It seems that military spending is far more important for the Government's EU masters than issues like food security, which is concerning and disturbing. These developments may be supported by many, while others have reservations, but what cannot be denied is that they represent a profound shift in European priorities. In that context, it is entirely legitimate to ask difficult questions. Are we witnessing a proportionate response to genuine security concerns or are we gradually accepting the view that ever-increasing military expenditure is itself the measure of security? Where is our sovereignty? We should be able to make our own decisions on these matters. Irish sovereignty is being eroded all the time. These considerations have often been absent from the discussion. Ireland's policy of military neutrality emerged not from isolationism or indifference but from a determination to maintain an independent foreign policy and independent judgment on questions of war and peace. Neutrality has allowed Ireland to make a distinctive contribution internationally. It has strengthened our credibility in peacekeeping missions, humanitarian efforts and diplomatic initiatives. It has enabled Irish troops to serve with distinction across the world while maintaining broad public confidence at home. Most importantly, neutrality has ensured that decisions involving the deployment of Irish personnel overseas have been subject to particularly high thresholds of security and legitimacy. This is where the triple lock comes in. The triple lock represented a deliberate recognition that the deployment of Irish troops overseas should carry three separate forms of approval - Government approval, D\u00e1il approval and international legitimacy through the United Nations. No government argues that removing the UN element simply reflects changing geopolitical realities. I respectfully disagree with this. The difficulty is not that the Government wishes to respond to changing circumstances, but the difficulty is that it is proposing to remove an important restraint at precisely the moment when Europe is experiencing an unprecedented expansion of defence structures, defence budgets and military ambitions. That inevitably raises very serious questions, particularly when major defence firms have significantly expanded their lobbying operations in Brussels and as EU defence policy and procurement become increasingly central to the European project. To be absolutely clear, raising those concerns is not anti-European, it is not anti-defence and it is certainly not anti-military. Ireland's neutrality has served our State and people well. It has protected our independence of judgment, it has enhanced our international standing and it remains one of the defining characteristics of Irish foreign policy. At a time when military spending is rising sharply across Europe, the appropriate response is not to weaken democratic safeguards around overseas deployments; it is to strengthen them and to maintain what has served us well. Dismantling the triple lock will be a terrible mistake. I hope that Government TDs will not go along blindly with their Government leaders but, rather, will do the right thing by the Irish people and the people they serve and vote against it. For that reason and for the sake of preserving the principles that have guided Ireland's international engagement for decades, I cannot and will not be supporting this Bill. I urge all here to think seriously about this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Defence (Deputy Helen McEntee) I thank all the Deputies who took part in this debate. It is important that we have an opportunity to discuss what is a really important matter for everybody in this country. I wish to touch on a number of points that have been raised, but also to restate a number of positions. First, many Deputies have claimed this is being rushed. It is important to remind colleagues that this Bill was published in June following the pre-legislative scrutiny that took place last summer. We are now only on Second Stage of the debate. I have not heard that there is any Deputy who has had not an opportunity to speak on this. We will have many more opportunities to speak on it. Second, I am not sure if I have been in a debate for some time where the Opposition was so sure and clear about what Fine Gael stood for, who we were, what Fianna F\u00e1il stood for and what our ambitions, objectives and secret motives are behind all of this. Let me clarify for the Opposition on behalf of Fine Gael. Indeed, I think I speak for many in our Government. The objectives and intention behind this legislation are quite simple and clear. The legislation that we are proposing is to make sure that as a country - a sovereign independent country - that we and only we have the right to decide where we send our peacekeeping troops. Frankly, I am quite confused sitting here listening to the contributions. We have heard from many members of Sinn F\u00e9in, and we have just heard from Deputy Nolan, that we should make our own decisions and that we are an independent sovereign country. Where is our sovereignty? How do we keep our independence? How do we make sure that we have an independent foreign policy? I agree with all of this. However, they are talking out of both sides of their mouths because while they want us to have an independent foreign policy whereby we make our own decisions, members of Sinn F\u00e9in, the Labour Party, the Social Democrats, the Green Party, the Independent groupings and the technical groupings are all sitting here this evening and basically saying that China, the UK, France, the US and Russia - a country that is murdering citizens every single day in Ukraine and attacking members of the EU - should have a say in where we send our peacekeeping troops. That is what the Opposition parties are saying. They are saying that on one hand we should make our decisions and yet they are saying here this evening that they want those five permanent members of the UN Security Council to continue to have a say in where we send our troops. This legislation will mean that we can continue our proud tradition of peacekeeping. There are UN mandated missions that are still there that we are part of, and we will continue to contribute to. There are missions that do not require the triple lock or a UN-mandated mission. There are maritime missions, missions on cybersecurity, training missions and missions around demining that do not require the triple lock but that we choose to be part of. We choose whether we take part in these missions. Due to the triple lock, there are missions that we cannot choose. As an independent country, we cannot decide to be part of them. That is the crux of what we are trying to achieve here. I wish to point to some of the comments that were made about the UN and that this is the demise of Ireland's participation in and support for the UN. I suggest that the Deputies who have said that should actually visit the UN. They might spend a week, as I and many others in government have, at the UN General Assembly. They might talk to the General Secretary. They might talk to many of the 193 member countries, all of which see Ireland as a driving force in supporting the UN and the protection of basic human rights, human dignity, the international rules-based system and multilateralism. We will continue to drive forward in our pursuit to protect those who are the furthest behind and those who need our help the most. For us to do that, it is not just words that are needed; we have to be able to participate. We have to be able to continue to ensure that those words and values are translated through our Defence Forces peacekeeping missions. Quite frankly, that will not be possible for so many missions and in so many situations if the triple lock remains. I wish to restate again that this legislation will ensure that our Defence Forces can continue to participate in UN-led and UN-organised missions. That will not change. We will have a choice, as we do now. It will also enable the Defence Forces to participate in missions organised or led by, for example, the OSCE, the EU and other regional arrangements. Any mission would only occur where it operates in a manner consistent with the Charter of the United Nations and international law. That is what we are proposing here this evening. That is our overall objective. There is not a single country in the world or a single member of the United Nations other than Ireland that requires a UN Security Council mandate to help us, tell us or assist us in where we send our troops. We are an independent sovereign country. That decision should be left to every single Member in this House, those of us who are democratically elected."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Thomas-Byrne.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Deputy Thomas Byrne) Taking hold of reality does not mean letting go of our ideals. In reforming the triple lock, we are doing so in a manner that remains fully consistent with our laws, our Constitution and the morals that found the laws in our Constitution. We will always act, and are required to act, in accordance with our obligations under international law. Reform of the triple lock meets our manifesto commitment from Fianna F\u00e1il's point of view and our programme for Government commitments. The question before us is a straightforward one, namely, do we believe decisions about where Irish peacekeepers serve should be made by Ireland, as Deputy Healy-Rae said, or should those decisions be made by others. I believe those decisions should be made by Ireland. There is a misconception in the Opposition at the heart of this debate. We currently require a UN mandate - Deputy Gibney was incorrect on this - to send even one member of the Defence Forces abroad for peacekeeping. The 12 figure quoted by many people refers to the threshold for D\u00e1il approval. That is part of the reason we need reform. The consequences of failing to reform the triple lock are not hypothetical. We were forced to leave, by law, Operation Irini in the Mediterranean. Everybody else stayed behind. Our soldiers, who had been proudly serving in the most humanitarian of ways, had to go home. That operation continues without the Irish. The triple lock meant we could not even come to the D\u00e1il to ask if it was okay for us to keep our soldiers there. We simply did not have the option once the mandate expired in New York. How can we avoid that situation happening again? The Opposition does not have a clear answer to that. If we want our peacekeeping tradition to continue, we must reform the triple lock, and if we value our sovereignty, we must exercise it. If we value the United Nations, we should continue to support it, to defend its charter and to work for reform, and that is why we have written that into the law. On Ireland\u2019s military neutrality, there is no provision in the Bill that changes that. It provides for peacekeeping, peace enforcement and conflict prevention. I do not know whether Deputy Bennett misread the legislation or was deliberately putting misinformation into the House when she spoke of making our soldiers conflict participants. That was egregiously wrong and the record of the House should be corrected. It is scary to people out there and it is not true. It is not what is written in the legislation. If it was simply a mistake in that she saw \"conflict prevention\" and read \"conflict participation\", then she should say she made a mistake. Article 29 of our Constitution affirms Ireland\u2019s \"devotion to the ideal of peace and friendly co-operation amongst nations founded on international justice and morality\". That constitutional provision is still there. Many Opposition Members mentioned the Lisbon protocol and how important that was. I have news for them. The Lisbon protocol is attached to the Lisbon treaty, which is in our Constitution. We cannot change that in this House. We would have to have a referendum. The Lisbon protocol stays. It remains the law of the European Union and the law of Ireland. Fianna F\u00e1il is the party of Frank Aiken. When I went to the UN Security Council to advocate for the renewal of Operation Althea in 2022, the experience demonstrated to me why we needed reform. I had absolutely no certainty that day as to whether Russia or any other country would veto the renewal. Ireland would have been required to withdraw its contingent from that operation in Bosnia if Russia had decided on the day to veto. Diplomacy won on that occasion but it did not in the case of Operation Irini and it certainly did not in the case of UNIFIL when the United States prevented the continuation of that mission. I contested the election as a Fianna F\u00e1il candidate with a manifesto that promised sensible reform of the triple lock while continuing to protect our military neutrality. Following the mandate we received at that election, I am proud to serve as a Minister of State at the Department of Defence with a programme for Government that includes reform of the triple lock. By reforming the triple lock Ireland ensures we can continue to stand with other nations in the pursuit of peace abroad while ensuring sovereignty over our own peacekeeping decisions. We have no time to lose. I look forward to engaging with Members further in this House and Seanad \u00c9ireann. I commend the Bill to the House."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan) In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time today, Wednesday, 21 October 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor Sheehan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-Sheehan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Conor Sheehan) Seanad \u00c9ireann has passed the Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) (Amendment) Bill 2026, without amendment."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Teachtaireacht \u00f3n Seanad - Message from Seanad"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"European Regulations and Directives: Motions","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":5},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan) I move: That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann approves the exercise by the State of the option or discretion under Protocol No. 21 on the position of the United Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security and justice annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, to take part in the application of the following measure: Regulation (EU) 2025\/2082 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 8 October 2025 amending Regulation (EU) 2018\/1727 as regards the extension of the timeframe for the establishment of the Eurojust case management system, a copy of which was laid before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 21st September, 2026. I ask the House to approve Ireland's participation in three important EU justice and security measures. I am seeking that we approve them under Article 4 of Protocol No. 21 on the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. The three European measures I am seeking the House's permission to opt in to are: a directive from 2017, No. 541 on combating terrorism; a regulation from 2023, No. 2131 on digital information exchange in terrorism cases; and a regulation from 2025, No. 2082 concerning the Eurojust case management system. These motions are brought pursuant to Article 29.4.7\u00b0 of Bunreacht na h\u00c9ireann which requires the approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas before Ireland may exercise its discretion under Article 4, Protocol No. 21 to participate in justice and home affairs measures after their adoption. The first measure, the 2017 counterterrorism directive, is the European Union's principal legislative instrument in the fight against terrorism. It establishes common rules on terrorist offences and strengthens protections for victims of terrorism. While it re-articulated much of the existing EU counterterrorism framework, in which Ireland already participates, it also introduced new offences relating to receiving training for terrorism, travelling for terrorism and organising or facilitating such travel. It was developed in response to the threat posed by foreign terrorist fighters travelling to and from conflict zones. The remaining necessary domestic legislation to give effect to it has been put in place through the Criminal Justice Terrorist Offences (Amendment) Act 2026, enabling Ireland to proceed with participation in the directive. The second measure, the 2023 Eurojust regulation, relates to Eurojust, the European Union Agency for Criminal Justice Cooperation, and strengthens judicial co-operation across Europe in terrorism cases. It provides a stronger legal basis for Eurojust's counterterrorism register and introduces a new digital case management system. These are designed to improve information-sharing and enable links between terrorism cases across member states to be identified more effectively. The third measure is the 2025 regulation. It is a technical amendment extending the timeline for the transition to the new Eurojust case management system. It ensures continuity while technical development of the system is completed. Ireland is currently the only EU member state not participating in the 2023 regulation. The new Eurojust case management system is expected to become operational in December 2026 and Ireland's continued participation in Eurojust could be jeopardised if we remain outside this new framework. Such an outcome would have significant implications for our ability to co-operate with European partners in combating serious cross-border crime and terrorism. Approval of these motions does not itself complete the opt-in process. Rather, it authorises the Government to notify the European Commission and the Council of the European Union of Ireland's intention to participate under Article 4 of Protocol No. 21. The Commission will then assess Ireland's request and determine the conditions and date from which participation will take effect. These measures will strengthen Ireland's security, enable full European counterterrorism co-operation, support effective collaboration with our EU partners and protect Ireland's position within Eurojust. I commend the motions to the House and ask Members to support their adoption."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Ward The manner in which these motions are being brought before the House is wholly unsatisfactory. Once again Members have been given just two days' notice to consider measures arising from significant EU instruments. Once again, we are told they must be dealt with as a matter of urgency. This approach does little to inspire public confidence. It helps explain why many people feel disconnected from the decision-making at European level. Measures with implications for our criminal justice system, our sovereignty and our relationship with the EU institutions deserve proper scrutiny. Instead, the Oireachtas is repeatedly presented with complex proposals and asked to wave them through. Ireland occupies a unique position in this area. Unlike most other EU member states, Ireland secured the right under Protocol No. 21 during the Lisbon treaty negotiations to choose whether to participate in measures relating to justice and home affairs. That safeguard was presented to the Irish people as an important protection of national sovereignty. It gave Ireland the ability to decide, on a case-by-case basis, whether participation was in our interests. As Sinn F\u00e9in has pointed out on numerous occasions, however, the Government is increasingly choosing to opt in to measures where an opt-out exists. That raises legitimate questions about whether the spirit of the guarantee provided to Irish voters is being respected. The measures before us relate to a 2017 directive on combating terrorism and two subsequent regulations concerning the operation of Eurojust, the EU agency responsible for co-ordinating cross-border criminal investigations and prosecutions. The 2017 directive strengthened counterterrorism laws by creating offences relating to terrorist training and travel for terrorism purposes. It also expanded the concept of public provocation to commit terrorism and clarified that in certain circumstances the glorification of terrorism could constitute a criminal offence. Indeed, the Government already legislated to give effect to this directive through the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2026. During consideration of that legislation, Sinn F\u00e9in opposed the provisions relating to the criminalisation of public provocation and glorification. We did so because of concerns about how such provisions may be interpreted and applied, including to undermine political expression. The two Eurojust regulations before us today strengthen information-sharing, establish a new digital case-management system, expand the counterterrorism register and deepen co-operation between national authorities. However, it would be wrong to suggest that there are no sovereignty implications. By opting in to these measures, Ireland becomes further integrated into an EU-wide framework for counterterrorism and judicial co-operation. The 2017 directive requires the State to maintain criminal offences defined at EU level. The 2023 regulation increases obligations to share information through Eurojust structures. It expands the role of EU institutions in the co-ordination of investigations and requires greater participation in shared systems and databases. While prosecutions remain a matter for national authorities and while Eurojust itself does not prosecute cases, these measures undoubtedly increase interdependence between member states and EU agencies in the area of criminal justice. There is also a broader point. Across Europe, there are different approaches to questions of political expression, national movements and the definition of terrorism. Different states can take very different views on where legitimate political advocacy ends and unlawful support for terrorism begins. Given that the 2017 directive deals with public provocation and the glorification of terrorism, it is entirely reasonable to ask how such provisions might be interpreted in different jurisdictions and what safeguards exist to ensure that legitimate political expression is protected. These are important questions; they deserve debate, scrutiny and more than a rushed process justified on the basis that urgency leaves us with no alternative. To be clear: my concern is not with the objective of combating terrorism or facilitating international co-operation. My concern is with a process that repeatedly asks the Oireachtas to consider significant EU measures at short notice without the level of scrutiny such matters warrant."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness As the Minister will know from my colleague, Sinn F\u00e9in supports effective international co-operation to tackle terrorism and serious crime. However, measures with implications for our justice system and sovereignty must receive proper scrutiny from the Oireachtas. This is never more important than now. Co-operation between EU member states is particularly important when it comes to organised crime. We know drug gangs do not respect borders. Those directing the drugs trade, orchestrating intimidation and ordering violence in communities across Ireland may be based, and oftentimes are based, in other EU member states. We need to see effective intelligence-sharing between police forces and judicial authorities and no EU member state should be a safe haven for those who direct criminal activity in Ireland from abroad. We must target those at the top of these organisations, the people who direct, oversee and profit from this criminality. It is not enough to arrest those carrying out orders on the ground while the people giving those orders remain beyond reach, oftentimes in European Union member states. That means working together to track suspects, share evidence, pursue prosecutions and seize criminal assets. We must strip these gangs of the money and resources that allow them to operate and ensure those responsible can be brought to justice, regardless of where they are based. Drug-related intimidation and violence are devastating families and communities across Ireland. Our response must recognise that these criminal networks operate internationally and tackling them requires cross-border action. European co-operation must deliver practical results, better intelligence, stronger investigations and accountability for those who direct and profit from organised crime."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Gary Gannon I begin by making it clear that the Social Democrats support European co-operation when it comes to tackling terrorism. We support the objectives of these measures. We support countries working together, sharing information and ensuring that those who engage in terrorist activity can be investigated and prosecuted wherever they may be. It need not even have been said. That is why we are going to support the first two motions relating to Eurojust. However, we will not be supporting the third motion on the EU counterterrorism directive. I will explain why. When the domestic legislation underpinning our participation in the directive came before the Oireachtas previously, we had an opportunity to strengthen it and ensure the legislation contained the strongest possible protections for fundamental rights, including the right to protest and the freedom of political expression. Important amendments were put forward but were not approved or accepted. Ultimately, we voted against that legislation. I want to be very clear that this is not about opposing measures to tackle terrorism. It is about ensuring that legislation designed to protect people from terrorism can never be used to criminalise people for exercising their democratic right. We have to be extraordinarily careful about powers we give to the State, particularly when it comes to something as fundamental as a right to protest. I do not believe individual members of this Government are fundamentally opposed to free speech or anything of the like. I do not believe they are sitting around a Cabinet table looking for ways to criminalise peaceful protest. I am grateful we live in a country where people can take to the streets every single week to express their horror at atrocities or their opposition to legislation or the Government, but legislation cannot simply rely on the goodwill of the people who happen to be in government on that day. We cannot legislate on the assumption that every future Government will exercise these powers in the same way. If you look at the previous D\u00e1il session, we have good reason to be gravely concerned about how quickly political commitments have changed when it comes to the triple lock. For decades, various Governments told the people of Ireland that the triple lock was a fundamental protection of Irish neutrality. It was used to pass two referendums. It was an essential safeguard and then it was taken away by a forced vote. I am told we should trust the assurances given today about how counterterrorism legislation will be used tomorrow. I think we are entitled to ask some serious questions because we have seen how quickly these assurances can change. We do not even have to imagine what it might look like when it comes to the right to protest; we only have to look across the sea to our nearest neighbours. We are all still in disbelief at the decision to proscribe Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation in the United Kingdom. We all genuinely struggle to comprehend how we arrived at a point where elderly women holding placards expressing support for the Palestinian cause are being led away in handcuffs by police officers. We have all seen those images. People who spent their lives participating in peaceful democratic protests are finding themselves arrested under terrorism legislation. We all should not only be disturbed by that but cautious as we move to advance our own legislation that does not seek to provide the appropriate safeguards. We will be voting against option 3 for the reasons outlined. There were opportunities to present safeguards and I do not think those opportunities were met. We will be opposing the third option based on the lack of assurances given."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Kelly Protocol 21 works case by case. Each measure needs to be opted in in its own right and approved by both Houses under Article 29.4.7\u00b0. Each motion is a specific EU measure. We will support these but as I have said in front of this House many times before, the way in which these are brought forward leaves a lot to be desired. The amount of time given to them, the haphazard way in which they are brought forward, the level of notice given and the way in which the Minister's Department brings them forward at the last minute leaves a lot to be desired. It is not the first time I have said this. I know it is a big Department and the Minister has taken on a lot more as well, to be fair, but it is a real issue. We did not opt in to Directive (EU) 2017\/541 on combating terrorism when it was adopted in 2017. However, the implementing Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Act 2026 was signed in July. It creates the offences of travelling for terrorism, facilitating such travel and receiving terrorist training. The Department's position has been that the legislation must be in place before the Commission confirms participation. Regulation (EU) 2023\/2131 amends the Eurojust regulation to require structured, secure digital sharing of terrorism case information in Eurojust. The second Eurojust amendment, also in place, extended the timeframe for establishing the Eurojust case management system. Ireland is already in Eurojust. The first and second motions keep us aligned with amendments to it, so that we do not risk falling out of its newer systems. I have some questions, which the Minister may address in reply. When will the 2026 Act I referenced earlier be fully commenced? Which authority will be Ireland's Eurojust national correspondent for terrorism, and what data protection safeguards will apply to the new information flows that will come as a result of this? How will the directive's victim support obligations be met?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan) I thank all colleagues for their contributions, to which I have listened closely. A number of issues were raised by Deputy Ward, and Deputy Kelly also raised concerns about the speed with which these motions have come before the House. I will try in future to see if there is a mechanism whereby I will be able to provide more time to colleagues to deal with such opt-ins. That is certainly the case when it comes to Article 3 opt-ins, as there is time pressure in respect of them and, as Deputy Kelly outlined, there is time pressure in respect of one of the opt-ins this evening as well. Ultimately, however, these are political decisions to be made. I am conscious that there is a lot on the political agenda but the three proposals this evening are relatively straightforward in what they seek to do, namely, to assist us in combating terrorism on a united basis across the European Union and to ensure we continue our alignment and co-operation with Eurojust. Deputy Ward said the opt-out is automatic but we have achieved that already in what was contained in Protocol 21. We managed to achieve that in the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union so that if a justice and home affairs measure is agreed by the European Union, we automatically do not participate in it. There is that automatic opt-out. We decided that. The Irish people voted for it. At the same time, we are entitled to consider and decide whether we want to opt in to these measures. There are some measures that we do not opt into. One was brought to my attention by officials last week and I decided that we would not opt in to it. It is appropriate for us to opt into these provisions because they are important for our continuing alignment and co-operation with Eurojust and to ensure that we have a co-ordinated response across the European Union in respect of terrorism. Deputies Ward and Gannon mentioned concerns about the spread and ambit of terrorism legislation. I, too, share the concerns expressed about the legislation that exists at present in the UK - the Terrorism Act. That is extraordinarily broad legislation. Under that legislation, it is a criminal offence for people to wear an emblem suggestive that they are supportive of a proscribed organisation. We discussed this when the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Act 2026 was going through this House. I specifically ensured the legislation would not replicate or imitate the legislation enacted in the UK, which I believe goes too far. The legislation that was enacted in Ireland, the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Act 2026, does not, in my opinion, undermine political expression or free speech. On what Deputy Ward said about sovereignty being impacted, we are making the decision here, in the elected House of the Irish people, to share sovereignty in a number of areas. That is a sovereign decision being made by the Irish people. Deputy McGuinness spoke about how we need international co-operation. That is apparent from the horrific criminal events we have seen recently, not just in Ireland but in other countries. Crime is now international. It does not recognise borders. If we want to get suspects back from other EU countries to ensure they face the law here, we need to have co-operation. That is why it is important that we align ourselves on co-operation across the EU. I note what Deputy Gannon said about the Social Democrats being supportive of two of the three motions but he made the point that legislation cannot be used to criticise or to restrict people expressing their right to protest. Nobody is doing this, and anything that we opt into this evening will not have an impact in respect of that. Deputy Kelly was correct when he said that Protocol 21 issues should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. As I said at the outset, there will always be a decision as to whether a party wishes to support the opt-in. Deputy Kelly asked me when the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Act 2026 will be commenced. I am anxious to commence it promptly but I cannot give the Deputy a specific date yet. I will engage with him on it. Another question Deputy Kelly asked was about who has access to operational personal data processed by Eurojust and what the data protection measures are. Access to such information is limited to national members, their deputies and assistants, seconded national experts and members of the national co-ordination system under Article 34 of the 2018 Eurojust regulation. On Eurojust, it is important to emphasise that it is an important body for the purpose of co-operation across the European Union on criminal justice."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan) I move: That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann approves the exercise by the State of the option or discretion under Protocol No. 21 on the position of the United Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security and justice annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, to take part in the application of the following measure: Regulation (EU) 2023\/2131 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 4 October 2023 amending Regulation (EU) 2018\/1727 of the European Parliament and of the Council and Council Decision 2005\/671\/JHA, as regards digital information exchange in terrorism cases, a copy of which was laid before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 21st September, 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan) I move: That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann approves the exercise by the State of the option or discretion under Protocol No. 21 on the position of the United Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security and justice annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, to take part in the application of the following measure: Directive (EU) 2017\/541 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 15 March 2017 on combating terrorism and replacing Council Framework Decision 2002\/475\/JHA and amending Council Decision 2005\/671\/JHA, a copy of which was laid before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 21st September, 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"European Regulations and Directives: Motions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Home Heating Oil Costs: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Pearse Doherty on Tuesday, 13 October 2026:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 approximately 700,000 households across the State depend on home heating oil to keep their homes warm, with many families facing unprecedented financial pressure as winter approaches; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the cost of filling a home heating oil tank has increased by more than \u20ac700 since the beginning of 2026;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"further notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 in the hours after the Budget was announced, wholesale home heating oil prices increased by \u20ac100 for a fill, with a further increase projected;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 households now face bills of over \u20ac1,600 on a 1,000-litre fill of home heating oil;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 despite these extraordinary increases, Budget 2027 delivered a reduction of just \u20ac43 on a 1,000-litre fill of home heating oil;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 increases over recent days demonstrate how quickly the Government's inadequate \u20ac43 reduction has been wiped out;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Sinn F\u00e9in has consistently called for the removal of carbon tax from home heating oil, including through legislation brought before the D\u00e1il, to deliver immediate and meaningful reductions in household heating costs;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Budget 2027 also failed to introduce any further reduction in petrol and diesel prices, leaving workers and families facing continued high transport costs, and changes in the fuel allowance have actually left recipients worse off; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 despite the strength of the State's finances, the Government has failed to deliver sufficient immediate relief to households struggling to afford the basic necessity of heating their homes; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"calls on the Government to immediately remove all carbon tax from home heating oil, delivering a meaningful reduction in costs for the approximately 700,000 households dependent on it."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To delete all words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\"recognises:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government remains deeply concerned about the ongoing conflict in the Middle East and Gulf, and recognises that de-escalation will have the single greatest impact on reducing prices on home heating oil and other oil-based fuel products;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government continues to monitor increased energy prices that are felt across Europe and the globe;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government fully understands the pressures on households that have arisen due to rising home heating costs, and has continuously acted to allay these pressures;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 successive Budgets have provided targeted support to help households with cost-of-living pressures, and re-affirms that energy affordability is a priority for the Government;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government remains committed to decarbonising our society, increasing investment in renewable energy sources and recycling carbon tax revenues to protect those most vulnerable to fuel poverty through targeted welfare interventions;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Ireland's obligations in respect of European Union (EU) legislation pertaining to fossil fuel taxation, and that abolition of the carbon tax may result in Ireland losing a derogation under European law;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government continues to use the funding from carbon tax to help farmers, businesses and households with increased energy prices;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government continues to monitor the economic impacts carefully, having already taken actions to mitigate energy increases, and provide certainty for families and businesses against the backdrop of global instability; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 that the Government continues to invest in retrofitting, boiler scrappage, wind energy and many other measures to help alleviate costs in the medium-term;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government has delivered one of the largest support packages in the EU per head capita, amounting to over \u20ac1.7 billion in supports from March 2026 to June 2027, to assist households and businesses;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 excise reductions have been extended until February 2027, retaining a 30 cent reduction in diesel and 25 cent reduction in petrol;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Budget 2026 and 2027 have expanded fuel allowance payments to 50,000 more households, and increased the weekly payment;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the trajectory of the carbon tax has been altered to ease pressure on households, with the rate on home heating oil and gas reduced and paused for the lifetime of the Government; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 a series of new schemes have been developed to help people make the transition away from fossil fuels; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"confirms that the Government will continue to:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 keep the situation under review in the time ahead; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 respond in a way that protects those most vulnerable to fuel poverty.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"- (Minister of State at the Department of Finance)"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding home heating oil costs. On Tuesday, 13 October 2026, on the question, \"That the amendment to the motion be made\", a division was claimed and, in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Home Heating Oil Costs: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Public Sector Pay: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following motion was moved by Deputy Ged Nash on Thursday, 15 October 2026:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government allowed the Public Sector Pay agreement to expire in June 2026, leaving over 400,000 workers with no collective pay agreement for the first time since 2010;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 since then, across the public service, trade unions have balloted their members, and there has been overwhelming support in favour of taking industrial action; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 no provision was made in Budget 2027 for pay rises in the remainder of 2026, while inflation has reached 4.1 per cent;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"agrees that it is economically and fiscally reckless for the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation to have allowed a situation to develop where there is no pay agreement that ensures certainty for both workers and the State;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"recalls that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the last time there was a nationwide public service strike was in 2009, under a Fianna F\u00e1il Government;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government has repeatedly given in to the demands of narrow sectoral interests and lobbyists through the last two Budgets, and in response to fuel protests; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Budget 2026 failed to index PAYE tax rates, bands and credits, and the changes this year still leave workers cumulatively behind;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"further recalls that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 as part of the last pay agreement, there was provision for the first phase of a 1 per cent local bargaining increase from 1st September, 2025, to be followed by 2 per cent in the next successor agreement;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 there have been significant delays in the implementation of these agreed increases, leading to growing frustration and anger in affected sectors; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 there have also been similar delays in the implementation of previous agreed commitments and Labour Court recommendations, and this has damaged trust;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"recognises that talks on a new agreement must clearly prioritise pay from the outset, and the Government has not demonstrated a credible approach that properly addresses the growing cost-of-living pressures facing public sector workers;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"regrets that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation has resorted to lecturing public sector workers in his Budget Day speech, and blaming trade unions for his failure to meaningfully engage on future pay; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 comments by the Taoiseach have further inflamed the dispute; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"calls on the Government to:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 drop their arbitrary preconditions, and commit to engaging, in good faith, with the trade unions representing public sector workers; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 commit that future pay increases will, at a minimum, protect the pay of public sector workers against inflation."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The following amendment No. 1 was moved by the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To delete all the words after \"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann\" and substitute the following:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\"recognises that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 public servants make a vital contribution to the delivery of public services across the State; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the best means of securing improvements in pay and conditions is through negotiation and agreement, thereby avoiding disruption to public services and to those who rely on them;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government remains fully committed to the established collective bargaining framework for the public service;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Public Service Agreement 2024-2026 delivered cumulative pay improvements of 9.6 per cent, exceeding cumulative inflation of 6.6 per cent over the period;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 successive public service agreements have provided a stable framework for industrial peace, pay improvements, and public service reform;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and his officials, have consistently stated their willingness to commence negotiations on a successor agreement, and have made clear that all issues raised by unions and staff associations can be discussed within that process;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 extensive efforts have been made by the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and his officials, to facilitate the commencement of negotiations;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government remains committed to the full implementation of the agreed local bargaining framework, with engagement between the parties identifying pathways to resolve a range of local bargaining issues, through established industrial relations mechanisms at local level;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Budget 2027 provides \u20ac1.2 billion to support a successor public service pay agreement; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 Budget 2027 also includes a range of measures to support household incomes and living standards;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"regrets that the planned strike action on Wednesday, 14th October, will cause great disruption to the public, especially the most vulnerable in our society, and also result in an avoidable loss of income for public servants; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"calls for:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 all strike action to be postponed and for all parties to engage in immediate and intensive discussions under the auspices of the Workplace Relations Commission, and that pay can be considered as a priority alongside other matters within these discussions; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 all sides to work towards the early conclusion of a fair, sustainable and affordable successor public service agreement.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Debate resumed on amendment No. 1 to amendment No. 1:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"To delete all words after \"recognises that\" and substitute the following:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\":"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 people are suffering because of the cost-of-living crisis, as prices of goods and services have increased by 22 per cent over the past five years, and wage increases have fallen behind inflation;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 public sector unions estimate that the gap between inflation and the pay of the average public servant over the past five years is at least 5 per cent;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the pressure on living standards has continued into 2026, with public servants receiving increases amounting to an average pay increase of around 1.5 per cent across the year, while annual average inflation has accelerated to 4.1 per cent;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the public sector pay agreement expired in June, leaving over 400,000 workers with no collective pay agreement;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 since then, public sector trade unions have balloted their members, and there has been overwhelming support in favour of taking industrial action;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the unions have said that if the Government would agree to a structured approach to dealing with pay, then the unions can move on to negotiate on other issues like AI, remote working and outsourcing of services; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 the Government has not given this entirely reasonable commitment, and instead has created deliberate confusion by claiming that unions have been unwilling to engage in pay negotiations;"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"notes that a multi-millionaire' tax on the wealthiest 1 per cent can raise the additional revenue required to meet the cost of pay increases for public sector workers; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"calls on the Government to:"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 engage in pay talks with public sector trade unions in good faith, without pre-condition, and with pay dealt with up front; and"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"\u2014 agree a pay increase that restores the real value of wages eroded by inflation in recent years, provides for protection against ongoing inflation, and further provides a real increase in public sector workers' wages.\"."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"- (Deputy Paul Murphy)"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the People Before Profit-Solidarity amendment to the Government amendment to the motion regarding public sector pay. On Thursday, 15 October 2026, on the question, \"That the amendment to the amendment be made\", a division was claimed and, in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Public Sector Pay: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_40","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/16","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2025\/16\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Children\u2019s Health (Ospid\u00e9al N\u00e1isi\u00fanta Kathleen Lynn do Leana\u00ed) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members] (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Children\u2019s Health (Ospid\u00e9al N\u00e1isi\u00fanta Kathleen Lynn do Leana\u00ed) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I must now deal with a postponed division relating to Second Stage of the Children\u2019s Health (Ospid\u00e9al N\u00e1isi\u00fanta Kathleen Lynn do Leana\u00ed) (Amendment) Bill 2025, taken on 15 October 2026. On the question, \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time\", a division was claimed and, in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Children\u2019s Health (Ospid\u00e9al N\u00e1isi\u00fanta Kathleen Lynn do Leana\u00ed) (Amendment) Bill 2025: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_45","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_45","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I must now deal with a postponed division relating to Second Stage of the Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026, taken today, 21 October 2026. On the question, \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time\", a division was claimed and, in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_50","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/63","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/63\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage (Resumed) (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage (Resumed)","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_50","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I must now deal with a postponed division relating to Second Stage of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026, taken today, 21 October 2026. On the question, \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time\", a division was claimed and, in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Second Stage (Resumed)"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-21\/debate\/dbsect_55","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/63","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/63\/dail\/motion\/referral","houseCode":"dail","stage":"motion","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_55","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Helen McEntee","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","memberCode":"Helen-McEntee.D.2013-03-27","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Defence (Deputy Helen McEntee) I move: That the Bill be referred to the Committee on Defence and National Security pursuant to Standing Orders 103(2)( b ) and 188(1)."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 8.46 p.m. go dt\u00ed 8.47 a.m., D\u00e9ardaoin, an 22 Deireadh F\u00f3mhair 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 8.46 p.m. until 8.47 a.m. on Thursday, 22 October 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-10-21"},{"debateRecord":{"house":{"showAs":"34th D\u00e1il","committeeCode":"","houseCode":"dail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/house\/dail\/34","chamberType":"house","houseNo":"34"},"chamber":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/def\/house\/dail","showAs":"D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann"},"lastUpdated":"2026-10-22T16:51:11+00:00","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/main","formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/main.xml"},"pdf":null},"date":"2026-10-20","counts":{"contributorCount":163,"divisionCount":2,"debateSectionCount":35,"questionCount":61,"billCount":2},"debateType":"debate","debateSections":[{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_2","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions","counts":{"speechCount":134,"speakerCount":14},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_2","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald T\u00e1 Fianna F\u00e1il agus Fine Gael ag br\u00fa ar aghaidh lena bplean n\u00e1ireach f\u00e1il r\u00e9idh leis an nglas triarach agus deireadh a chur le neodracht na h\u00c9ireann. M\u00e1 t\u00e1 an Taoiseach muin\u00edneach go dtaca\u00edonn muintir na t\u00edre lena phlean, ba ch\u00f3ir d\u00f3 \u00e9 a chur faoi bhr\u00e1id an phobail i reifreann. In 2013 here in the D\u00e1il the Taoiseach said the triple lock, which is the requirement to have a mandate from the UN, the Government and the D\u00e1il for the deployment of Irish troops, was the core of our neutrality. Why is he now pushing ahead with his plan to dismantle Irish neutrality? Tomorrow he wants to force through his Bill to abolish the triple lock and he wants to shut down debate here. He wants to force the Bill through because he does not want proper scrutiny of this legislation and the consequences of a Bill which, if passed, will fundamentally move Irish foreign policy away from neutrality and towards military entanglement, and away from peacekeeping and towards military adventurism. We know what is at stake here. Scrapping the triple lock opens the door for Ireland to be dragged deeper into EU military structures aligned with NATO strategy. The triple lock is core to our neutrality. It is a strength that has allowed Ireland to be a credible voice for peace and diplomacy for generations, to use our experience of colonisation and oppression to always speak up for justice and to champion a better world in a way that is unequivocally, unapologetically and powerfully Irish. Neutrality is not only a policy; it is deeply connected with the values of the Irish people and who we are. This is why special neutrality protections were given for the Nice and Lisbon treaties. It is why we have the triple lock protection. Now the Taoiseach wants to walk away from these commitments and protections. Piece by piece, with no mandate and without honesty, the Government is dismantling neutrality. The Taoiseach claims he does this because the world has changed and it is now more dangerous and volatile but these are precisely the reasons that defending Ireland's neutrality matters more than ever. Adherence to international law and the requirement of a UN mandate for the deployment of Irish troops are the safeguards against military adventurism. Dysfunction at the UN must be dealt with by reform and by strengthening the United Nations, but it should not be used as a pretext for scrapping our neutrality. The Irish people want no part of the military might-is-right agenda where international law is repeatedly shredded, with catastrophic consequences, and where the European Union now pours hundreds of billions of euro into an arms race. Our neutrality keeps Ireland outside this dangerous military race to the bottom. It allows us to speak for freedom, human rights and justice, and to uphold the vision and possibility of a better, safer world. The Government's attempt to abolish the triple lock is an enormous step. It is literally inconceivable that any Taoiseach or Government would push ahead with this without first seeking the permission of the Irish people, because Irish neutrality belongs to the people, not to any Government. If the Government is intent on abolishing the triple lock, it must have the permission of the Irish people. It must put this question to a referendum and let the people have their say."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Ar dt\u00fas b\u00e1ire, n\u00ed aonta\u00edm leis an Teachta in aon chor. Nuair a fheiceann t\u00fa siar ar stair na h\u00c9ireann, go h\u00e1irithe nuair a bhuamar \u00e1r neamhsple\u00e1chas, is l\u00e9ir gurb \u00e9 an t\u00e9ama is m\u00f3 a thagann amach n\u00e1 c\u00e9 chomh d\u00edlis is at\u00e1imid sa t\u00edr seo maidir le c\u00farsa\u00ed s\u00edoch\u00e1na, coimhlint\u00ed ar fud an domhain a r\u00e9iteach agus a bheith p\u00e1irteach i misin s\u00edoch\u00e1na ar fud an domhain. Is \u00e9 sin an t\u00e9ama is m\u00f3 at\u00e1 le feice\u00e1il, go h\u00e1irithe in an-chuid t\u00edortha san Afraic, sa Liob\u00e1in agus in a l\u00e1n \u00e1iteanna eile. N\u00edl an m\u00e9id at\u00e1 \u00e1 r\u00e1 ag an Teachta f\u00edor in aon chor. N\u00ed bheidh aon athr\u00fa air. N\u00edl \u00e1r dt\u00edr ag lorg aon choimhlint. N\u00edlimid ag lorg aon chogadh."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness F\u00e1g \u00e9 mar at\u00e1 s\u00e9, mar sin."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach T\u00e1 s\u00e9 \u00e1if\u00e9iseach ar fad \u00e9 sin a chur san \u00e1ireamh. Is \u00e9 sin at\u00e1 \u00e1 dh\u00e9anamh ag an Teachta McDonald agus ag daoine eile. Fundamentally, peacekeeping has been one of the great manifestations of Ireland's outreach to the global world. It is not the only one, but by any yardstick it is one of our most significant commitments to the rule of law and to many marginalised people in conflict and humanitarian crises all over the world. The idea that we are about to abandon that is outrageously hyperbolic."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach There is no balance to what Deputy McDonald is saying. She uses language such as \"military adventurism\" and \"military entanglement\"."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness We are just repeating your language back to you."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louise O'Reilly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Louise-O'Reilly.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louise O'Reilly Answer the question."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Who is going to engage in military adventurism? Does Deputy McDonald think D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann is? Does she think an Irish Government is?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Yes, it would."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I do not take lectures from the Deputy on the conduct of foreign policy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine He is good at giving them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I have been Minister for foreign affairs on two occasions. I invite the Deputy to go back over my record and my engagement from 2007 onwards."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Frank Aiken, a member of the Fianna F\u00e1il Party-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald A south Armagh man."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----was an architect of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and was an extraordinary Minister for External Affairs. Fianna F\u00e1il does not take lectures from Sinn F\u00e9in, and neither does Fine Gael nor any other member of the Government, a party that once supported Nazism during the Second World War."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Ah, go away out of that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness That is an outrageous slur."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin What did De Valera do after Hitler passed away? He sent condolences on the death of Hitler."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach But you did."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin The Fianna F\u00e1il party leader-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach You cannot take it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Taoiseach, I am sorry. Please, Deputies."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach When \u00c9amon de Valera-----"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach These are facts."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Please allow the Taoiseach to respond. I call the Taoiseach, please."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I am sorry, but I am not going to be shouted down."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Nobody is going to be shouted down."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Deputy's leader got her time. Now, allow the Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin The Taoiseach-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle End of. Allow the Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine The Taoiseach-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin The Taoiseach does not even know the history of his own party."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy \u00d3 Broin, please. Your leader will respond to the Taoiseach. It is Leaders' Questions."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin She absolutely will."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach When \u00c9amon de Valera affirmed the policy of Irish neutrality during the Second World War, Sinn F\u00e9in leaders colluded with the Hitler regime-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Ah here-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Not true. It is not factually true."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----and Se\u00e1n Russell was the key person."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin It is simply not true. It is utter-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Sinn F\u00e9in party leader, Deputy Mary Lou McDonald, unveiled a statue to Se\u00e1n Russell. How dare the Deputy lecture me about Irish neutrality? He has not an inch of credibility in respect of it-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Talk about revisionism."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----nor has the Deputy's entire party, because, for a long time-----"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Please co-operate with the Chair."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Talk about revisionism. The Taoiseach does not even know the history of his own party."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach For a long time, Sinn F\u00e9in saw-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin What a disgrace."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Through the Chair, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----any conflict Britain was involved in as Ireland's opportunity, right beyond World War Two. Therefore, it could not have given a continental about Irish neutrality for many, many decades. Furthermore, I would say this: I was in the House when Russia-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Answer the question. What has changed about the triple lock? The Taoiseach should answer the question."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Russia has changed fundamentally."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Avoiding the question, as always."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Russia has changed. Again, the Deputy does not want to hear it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Avoiding the question, as always."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Fundamentally, what his party is now saying is that Russia, which, on a daily basis, is bombing the civilians of Ukraine, should have a veto-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Nonsense."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----on Irish participation in peacekeeping."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Absolute nonsense."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Oh, God, the Taoiseach is so defensive."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Answer the question."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We also know that the Lebanon UNIFIL mission-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Ask the people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----is about to end, with no prospect of our participation in it-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Calm down."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I call Deputy Mary Lou McDonald. I thank the Taoiseach. His time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----because of the US decision not to support the continuation of peacekeeping in Lebanon."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I thank the Taoiseach. Deputy McDonald is on her feet."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin And a referendum?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We should be in control of our own destiny when it comes to participation in peacekeeping missions."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy McDonald is on her feet. I thank the Taoiseach. His time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin The people should be in control."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I call Deputy McDonald."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Is f\u00edor go bhfuil siad ag iarraidh \u00e1r neodracht a scriosadh. Sin an rud at\u00e1 \u00e1 gceist againn inniu. The idea of abandoning our neutrality is absolutely outrageous. The Taoiseach is quite correct. The triple lock remains at the core of our neutral position. The Taoiseach was quite correct to state that in 2013 but what we are now seeing is a very dangerous political sleight of hand. The Government is attempting to force through, by means of a guillotine, legislation that will have the most profound consequences for the positioning of this country for generations to come. Frank Aiken was an outstanding man, an outstanding Irish patriot, an outstanding south Armagh man-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach And a member of Fianna F\u00e1il."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald -----and fair play to him. He carried the torch for what was right for this country. For many decades, the Taoiseach's party did defend neutrality but it has moved away from that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Taoiseach should respond now."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald I am simply advancing to the Taoiseach the idea that a matter of this importance must be put to a referendum, and the Irish people, not the Taoiseach, must make this call."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Irish people want us to continue to participate in peacekeeping. The bottom line is that the amended legislation-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Donnelly The Lisbon and Nice treaties. That is the message-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I am sorry but I did not interrupt. Why can the Deputies not allow people opposite to speak?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach That is the essence of parliamentary democracy."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn Stop calling them Nazis here-----"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Donnelly The Nice treaty-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The point I was making is this: if this legislation does not go through, we will not be in a position, for example, if we wanted to have some participation in Lebanon, to be a voice, to be there as a witness to what is transpiring."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald That is a red herring."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Allow the Taoiseach to continue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Nonsense."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach In other areas as well, we would simply not be able to do so. Why? It is because the party opposite and others would prefer Russia to have that decision-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald No."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Nonsense. We want the people to decide."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----or the US, or indeed China. The world has changed dramatically."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Fianna F\u00e1il has changed. That is for sure."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I know Sinn F\u00e9in does not want us to support Ukraine. It did not want us to allocate \u20ac90 billion for Ukraine to defend itself. That is where it is."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Bring that debate to the people and I will have it with the Taoiseach in the full public gaze."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach It was the same when the Russians invaded Crimea. I, for one, and I think the vast majority of people, want us to be involved in peacekeeping. Our military forces want to be involved in peacekeeping."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin Then put it to the people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I call Deputy O'Callaghan."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach What Sinn F\u00e9in is endeavouring to do-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin The Taoiseach is scared of democracy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy Cian O'Callaghan is on his feet."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Eoin \u00d3 Broin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Eoin-\u00d3-Broin.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Eoin \u00d3 Broin He is scared of the view of the people. Shame on him."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy Cian O'Callaghan, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan Last month, a man who was alleged to have threatened to rape and kill his former partner was allowed to cross-examine her in court. This is a man who was accused of trying to kick in her front door and break into her home while young children were present. He is accused of sending her an image of a handgun and saying he would rip her teeth out with pliers and stick a gun down her throat. He was allowed to cross-examine this terrified woman because no solicitor was available to represent him. On Friday, a woman who had taken out a barring order against her son was verbally abused by him as he cross-examined her. The man had to be removed from court by prison officers. This woman had to sit in court while a man she lived in fear of harangued and abused her. This woman, who had shown immense courage by taking out the barring order and going to court, has been utterly failed. Yesterday in the Central Criminal Court, half of the rape and serious sexual assault cases due to go on trial were adjourned because of the dispute. Six of the 13 cases were affected. These vulnerable complainants are now in limbo. They have no idea when these cases will be heard. This is not the first time this has happened. Back in July, the Social Democrats\u2019 leader, Deputy Holly Cairns, raised this very issue with the Taoiseach. She told the Taoiseach that just two out of the 12 rape cases in the Central Criminal Court were able to proceed. Most of them were adjourned because of this row between the Minister and solicitors, and nothing effective has been done since then to resolve this. I do not need to tell the Taoiseach how difficult it is for victims of rape and sexual assault to come forward and how few of these cases are prosecuted. It is a scandal and outrage that this disruption is being allowed to continue. The open warfare between the justice Minister and solicitors has to end. Victims of crime are being caught in the crossfire. Both sides need to talk to each other. The last time the Minister met with the Law Society was in July. Today, hours before his justice committee appearance, he sent a letter saying he is open to a meeting. The Minister is treating this dispute like it is a game. It is now time for the Taoiseach to intervene and show leadership. There is no good reason not to. He did so with the public sector dispute last week, and he needs to do it again now. He needs to step up, take action and protect victims of crime from further trauma. Will the Taoiseach show leadership and personally intervene to ensure this dispute is resolved?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank the Deputy for raising a very important issue. In my view, the cases he raised are harrowing. I have, perhaps, a slightly different perspective to the Deputy in that I think solicitors should attend those cases. The dispute, and the nature of it, does not justify the absence from such cases. That is my perspective. I also put it to the Deputy that, perhaps, he and others in the Opposition should show some leadership on this issue. For years, people have questioned and complained about the absence of reform within our legal system and our legal service. People have raised serious issues at various committees, in the public accounts committee and everywhere, about value for money. To go back nearly 20 years ago to early on when the Personal Injuries Assessment Board was established, where did the attack come from to undermine that, which continues to this very day? It came from the legal profession. I do not say that with any joy, but that is the reality. That was a reform to deal with personal injuries. From looking at the Department of justice\u2019s review of the old system of criminal legal aid, which necessitated the reforms the Minister introduced, it appears to me that it raised serious issues. The review highlighted, for example, more appearances and longer trials due to an appearance-based fee structure. That is at the kernel. This is, fundamentally, a money dispute. Multiple payments were being granted for no stated reason and multiple solicitors were being assigned to the same defendant for charges heard on the same day, resulting in multiple payments for the same case. These are serious issues that, collectively in this House, we should be engaged with, rather than saying that it is all the Minister\u2019s fault and that no one else has any contribution to make to what represents a more sensible reform of the legal system, with better value for money for the taxpayer who is paying for it. The investment that has taken place is quite significant. Criminal case volumes in the District Court have decreased over the years but the expenditure on criminal legal aid in the District Court has increased from about \u20ac19 million in 2015 to over \u20ac41 million in 2025. The Minister, Deputy O\u2019Callaghan, has introduced an 8% increase in criminal legal aid fees payable to the solicitors and barristers in the Circuit Court and higher courts from 1 July 2026. That represents the total restoration of the criminal legal aid fees cut under FEMPI. So, it is very regrettable. I believe it to be unnecessary that some solicitors are choosing to withdraw their services. The overall budget for the-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Taoiseach. I call Deputy O'Callaghan to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----legal area has increased dramatically also."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan This is not reform; this is chaos that has been created. Why has the Minister for justice not met with the Law Society, given how serious this is? Since July there have been no meetings. Only now is he saying that he will meet it. Why has he let this go on for so long? What is the Taoiseach going to do about this? Surely he agrees that what has happened and what people have been put through - people who have gone through hell are now being retraumatised - is not acceptable. Is he going to intervene to stop this happening any more? There is a role for him; he is the Taoiseach of the country. What has happened to people is utterly unacceptable and I am sure he can agree about that. What is he going to do? This cannot keep on dragging on. We cannot have people, who have gone through hell, being put through more trauma in the courts. It has to stop. Will the Taoiseach stand up and do something about this?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach First of all, I support the Minister's reform initiative. That is the first point. I would make the point that more than 3,385 certificates have issued. These are invoices for payment for legal aid, with an approximate value of \u20ac1.7 million since 1 July. That just represents payments for the District Court alone. There has been ongoing engagement. The Minister met with the Law Society twice. There have been further meetings between officials in the Department of justice, the Minister, the Law Society and the Bar Council in relation to the changes to the criminal legal aid fee structure. The Minister wrote to the president of the Law Society today to indicate that he is happy to engage on any minor changes required to the new scheme, particularly in the area of the children's court. The Minister has already changed aspects of the scheme since it was first introduced. He has increased the flat fee from \u20ac455 to \u20ac520. He has agreed to split the payment of the fee and has confirmed that separate and distinct cases appearing for the first time on different days would attract a new legal aid certificate for the same accused person. Just one note of caution - there is competition law around all of this too, in terms of who has responsibility collectively to represent any groups-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Taoiseach. The time is up. Deputy Bacik is next."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach It is a point that people should not lose sight of either."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik For victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual offences the experience of undergoing a criminal trial and being subject to cross-examination as a witness in a criminal trial as a complainant has been described as a second victimisation. Even more deeply traumatising is where the cross-examination is not carried out by a lawyer but by the defendant - the accused or the alleged abuser - in person. That is why we were all so shocked last week to hear about the horrendous ordeal of the woman complainant in the District Court whose partner had allegedly threatened to rape and kill her in the most graphic and horrendous terms. He was unrepresented legally in court due to the criminal legal aid dispute and he subjected her to personal cross-examination in the court room. For any complainant in a case like that to have to face the accused in person across the court is unthinkable. My heart goes out to her and to all of those victims, survivors and complainants who have been affected by the withdrawal of legal representation, including those whose cases were adjourned yesterday in the Central Criminal Court. These cases illustrate the sharpest impact of the criminal legal aid debacle, a crisis in the courts that is the direct creation of the justice Minister. Despite his insistence that his new criminal legal aid scheme is working, the courts are at a standstill. There is chaos since he introduced the change in July and that is the reality. It is a change he justified by relying on statistics showing a high rate of adjournments. He ploughed on with this, even when it was pointed out that the law requires an adjournment in many criminal cases and that adjournments are given very frequently where the State is running late and has not yet served the book of evidence. Now the worst impacts of this stalemate are being felt by the most vulnerable people involved in the system. The Minister calls the latest withdrawal of criminal solicitors unnecessary and regrettable. It is deeply regrettable but he appears to be in denial about his own role in escalating this situation. Yesterday he said, when asked, that he was happy to tweak the new regulations. Why has he not acted before now to defuse matters? He has not met the Law Society since 27 July. He has just sent a letter at 1 p.m. today to the Law Society saying that he will engage with it, which is very little, very late."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash It is cynical."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik It is very cynical. We saw the same pattern in the public sector pay dispute with the Minister, Deputy Chambers, waiting for strikes to bring the country to a halt before committing to meaningful engagement and the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, similarly waiting for escalated action. This has become the modus operandi of Fianna F\u00e1il in government. Ignore the warnings, dismiss concerns, engage in denial and only engage meaningfully when crisis is reached while denying all responsibility. This will only get worse. Vulnerable people are at risk. Victims of crime cannot be collateral damage in a proxy war between Jim O'Callaghan and the Law Society or indeed, a proxy battle for the leadership of Fianna F\u00e1il. We are seeing one arm of the State, this Government, effectively hamstringing another, our justice system. Will the Taoiseach take responsibility for the actions of a Minister in denial and instruct the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, to engage meaningfully with the legal profession to ensure that vulnerable people in the justice system are protected?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach As I said, I support the reforms. Not once has the Deputy mentioned the need for reform. Not once has she said there is an onus and a responsibility on solicitors either. She referenced cases that are indeed harrowing and horrific. I put it to her that in such serious cases, solicitors should attend. The substance of this dispute does not justify solicitors not attending the cases she has movingly and eloquently articulated. That is my position. The Deputy has said a number of things are not correct. First, the Minister has an obligation to act when a report and review indicate a significant need for reform. It has always struck me over the years that the most difficult area in which to implement reform is the legal arena. There are always plenty of defenders in the House of that particular area. I believe a legal system is vital to our democracy. A criminal justice system is vital to our democracy. However, that does not mean it is immune from reform initiatives. We need reform in this area. As I said, the review highlighted significant issues. For example, it showed that cases with criminal legal aid took an average of 313 calendar days to complete, compared with 133 days for cases without. These are significant issues and governments have an obligation to do reform. Investment and reform come together. The weighted average appearances for cases with criminal legal aid is five while the weighted average appearances for cases without criminal legal aid is just over three. Deputy Bacik wants the Minister to just ignore that. She has not referenced that at all. She said it is all the Minister's creation. On another day, if the Minister ignored a report, others would come into the House and ask why he left that report sitting on his desk. I genuinely make the point that we need reform in this area. The Minister did change. The Deputy is saying he did not make any changes or whatever. He increased the flat fee from the original \u20ac455 to \u20ac520. He agreed to split the payment of the fee. He confirmed that separate and distinct cases appearing for the first time on different days would attract a new legal aid certificate for the same accused person. He has written to the Law Society indicating that, particularly in the context of children's court, he is prepared to make further changes. I do not want to make the thing more complicated but there is an issue around the degree to which the Law Society can represent, and I may be wrong here, solicitors in the collective in terms of the competition authority's perspective on all this and individual entities. Some of these firms have significant turnovers. That needs to be acknowledged. They are entitled to that and to earn a good living. They are entitled to fair earnings and a fair living."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Taoiseach. I call Deputy Bacik."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Surely the Government on behalf of the taxpayer is entitled to reform systems to get better value for money."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik With respect, of course we support reforms that will make the system run better for everyone involved. However, it is how you carry out the reform that is the point here. The Minister has simply refused to engage and is in denial about the impact of the change, the current debacle and the stalemate. Last week the Taoiseach lectured public sector workers. He is lecturing us today in the Chamber. The reality is that in order to make reforms work you need to engage meaningfully and that is what the Minister has patently failed to do. He has not met the Law Society since 27 July. He has just, at 1 p.m. today, issued a letter to the Law Society saying he will engage. I think he will instruct his officials to engage with the Law Society. That is welcome but it is very little, very late. Meanwhile, the impact is being felt. In June there were 10,300 legal aid certificates issued and a 90% drop the following month at 702. There are real concerns that future prosecutions are being put at risk. Not alone are those currently before the courts facing enormous delays, and impacts if you are a victim, a survivor or a witness who has taken time off work, but there are also future prosecutions and people held in detention."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik Just as the Taoiseach eventually engaged meaningfully and was brought to the table last week, let us see engagement that is meaningful now."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach First of all, I do not lecture. I am not lecturing the Deputy, and I did not lecture public service workers. Since I came back into Government in 2020, we have expanded-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash What were they striking for?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----the public service significantly. We have had two national pay agreements. We will have a further national pay agreement following, hopefully, good negotiations that are under way between the public service trade unions under the WRC with the Government under the aegis of the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Chambers. In respect of this issue, the Minister has engaged. I have said this to the Deputy already. Just because she keeps on saying the opposite does not mean it is true. The Minister has engaged and he has changed the scheme. He has written to the Law Society as of day again but he also had met it twice, in May and in July, and made changes, and is prepared to make further changes but the essence of the reforms are here to stay because we do owe it to the taxpayer. The Deputy said she is in support of reform but I had to drag that out of her. The Deputy has made one phrase in four minutes."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik We have always said it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Taoiseach."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Deputy said that she supports reform as well, but not now please, and that this is too good for her in opposition to turn."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Taoiseach. I call Deputy Michael Collins."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Deputy Bacik has to take a particular position."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins The people of this country are looking on with disbelief. At a time when families are struggling to make ends meet, the Government has approved a pay increase of approximately \u20ac118,000 for the CEO of Uisce \u00c9ireann, bringing his overall remuneration package to almost \u20ac392,000. That is more than \u20ac2,270 extra every week. That is a 43% increase. The CEO of ESB received a pay increase of almost \u20ac92,000, up 29% to \u20ac410,000 a year. Bord na M\u00f3na's CEO's pay rise of up to \u20ac75,000 brings his pay to \u20ac300,000. Dublin Bus's CEO pay rise of \u20ac60,000 brings it to \u20ac260,000. Meanwhile what did the nurse, special needs assistant, teacher, garda and firefighter get? The people on the front line of the country received a pay increase measured on around 1% while semi-State executives receive increases worth tens of thousands of taxpayers' euros. The firefighter who runs into every burning building when everyone else is running out, the nurse working throughout the night in an overcrowded emergency department, the special needs assistant helping a child with additional needs and the garda answering an emergency call are the people who keep Ireland functioning yet this Government tells them there are limits, that affordability matters and that the books have to balance but somehow there is always money available at the top. Today, petrol costs almost \u20ac1.98 a litre, diesel is over \u20ac2.14 a litre and home heating oil is around \u20ac1.49 a litre. Families feel those costs every day. When they walk into the supermarket, the basics costs more and more. Bread, milk, butter, meat, vegetables and household essentials have all become expensive. Working families, factory workers, farmers, fishermen, hauliers and pensioners are counting every euro before they fill the car, heat the house or buy the groceries yet while ordinary people are struggling with the cost of living, the Government signs off on a pay rise worth more than \u20ac2,200 a week for the head of Uisce \u00c9ireann. Which Minister looked at these figures and thought they represented value for money, while communities across the country are still dealing with water infrastructure failures, wastewater capacity problems and inadequate public services? In fact, the sewerage systems are collapsing into our rivers all over the country and Uisce \u00c9ireann's CEO gets rewarded with a \u20ac118,000 increase a year and is accountable to no one. What message does this send to the ordinary working people of Ireland? From where they are standing, it looks like there is one set of rules for hard-working families, home helps, carers, council workers and rural social scheme, RSS, workers and another set of rules entirely for those at the top. Can the Taoiseach explain to the people of middle Ireland why they are expected to tighten their belts while the Government rewards semi-State executives with pay increases greater than many workers earn in an entire year? Who signed off on this? Did the Taoiseach sign off on it? Did the T\u00e1naiste sign off on it? Did the Independents supporting the Government know about these increases and support them? Who sanctioned these immoral and unpatriotic payments?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Prior to the work of the senior posts remuneration committee, SPRC, in 2025, there had been no systematic review of CEO pay in commercial State bodies since 2011. The issue had not been looked at since 2011 and it was creating issues comparable in terms of recruiting people for these bodies of a particular calibre, experience and expertise relative to what was happening in the private sector. The Government agreed a framework for the remuneration of CEOs in commercial State bodies based on the findings of a report by the independent SPRC Therefore, an independent body was created and asked to look at this, independently and outside of Government, to ascertain what would be levels of pay for CEOs. The Government only accepted the findings of the report in part, limiting pay to the market mean of comparable roles. We did not take on board the full recommendations of this independent committee. The Government agreed the introduction of a banded salary structure for CEOs, ranging from their current salary to the market median of the relevant band. Basically, the report said that we need to have fair, appropriate remuneration as a key element in the recruitment and retention of CEOs of commercial State bodies, which are critical to the State\u2019s future development and economic performance. These are enormous organisations now, with huge budgets, huge turnover and very significant projects under their remit. Over the next five to six years, in particular, Uisce \u00c9ireann and ESB - you name them - will be overseeing very substantial investment, delivering very significant projects and managing the funding and financing of those. That is the issue. The easier, populist political position would be to do nothing, but that in itself would not serve the State either, if the truth be told. We could enter into an era of complete mediocrity in terms of how commercial State bodies would be administered, governed and dealt with. The Government did not come up with these increases itself and it did not decide on them. Ultimately, a decision has to be made in terms of approving them, but the work was done independently of the Government and independently of the relevant Ministers, on balance. That is the background to it. More broadly, we have systems in terms of the public service and we have national pay agreements. What should happen here is that there should be annual increases, in my view, linked to inflation and so on. It should not have to wait for another decade or decade and a half before an area like this gets reviewed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins The Taoiseach said that independent bodies outside of the Government made a decision and the Government accepted that in part. Is the Taoiseach saying the Government accepted these increases? The Taoiseach is saying that the other side here is saying we should do nothing. I do not agree with that. Everybody deserves an increase, but an increase of \u20ac118,000 a year is outrageous. The people of Ireland deserve accountability. They deserve answers. I am not getting them here. What does the Taosieach think these immoral increases to the CEOs of Uisce \u00c9ireann, ESB, Bord na M\u00f3na and Dublin Bus mean to every hard-working taxpayer in Ireland, to every person on a pension who cannot afford to put home heating oil in the tank, to all those who have disabilities, to those 350,000 who cannot pay their electricity bills and to the highest number of people ever in this country who cannot pay their mortgages? I will tell him what it means. It was simply put to me by a tax-paying woman last night: If you're not at the top in this country, the only way it pays to exist is to stay in bed. This is no longer a country for the hard-working man and woman. Again, I ask: was it the Taoiseach, the T\u00e1naiste and the Independents supporting this Government who signed off on this shocking deal for those at the very top?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I would make the overall point that it was decided independently to assess the post, the office or the position, not any individual, because individuals come and go, but for the position at the head of a given commercial State body, what would be a fair increase. The Deputy said there should be increases. This had not been looked at since 2011. In my view, that should not happen again. It should be looked at far more regularly than it has been. We have reduced. By the way, people on higher incomes will pay far more in higher tax, and that is right. We have a very progressive tax system in this country, which is one of the most progressive in Europe, where those on higher incomes get taxed far more than those on middle and low incomes. That is the way it should be, and it will continue that way. We have also done a lot on the cost of living, by the way. Over the past five years in particular, we have intervened significantly every year to try to protect people, including working people. In next year's budget, we have reduced income tax, we have now reduced childcare costs and we have brought in a new cost-of-disability payment. We have taken a lot of measures on the cost-of-living side."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna \u00f3 Cheannair\u00ed - Leaders' Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_3","debateType":"orderofBusiness","bill":null,"showAs":"An tOrd Gn\u00f3 - Order of Business","counts":{"speechCount":151,"speakerCount":28},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_3","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shane Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Brennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle In accordance with Standing Order 35, I call on the Chief Whip, Deputy Butler, to move the arrangements for this week's business."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler) I move: Tuesday's business shall be: - Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Protection of Young Persons (Employment in Food and Beverage Services Sector) Regulations 2026 (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately) - Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2026 (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately) - Motion re Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Marine Planning Policy Statement (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately) - Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and D\u00e1il Reform \"Oral Questions to the Taoiseach and Topical Issues\" (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately) - Motion re Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach under D\u00e1il Standing Order 142 on COM(2026) 560 (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately) - Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026 (Second Stage) (to conclude at the end of the first speaking round; not to exceed 3 hours and 34 minutes) Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Drug Debt Related Intimidation and Community Safety, selected by Sinn F\u00e9in. Wednesday's business shall be: - State Apology to the family of the late Brian Stack (to conclude within 2 hours and 20 minutes) - Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026 (Second Stage) (to conclude at the end of the first speaking round; not to exceed 3 hours and 34 minutes) - Motion re Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann amending Regulation (EU) 2018\/1727 as regards the extension of the timeframe for the establishment of the Eurojust case management system* - Motion re Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann amending Regulation (EU) 2018\/1727 as regards digital information exchange in terrorism cases* - Motion re Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann for Directive (EU) 2017\/541 of the European Parliament on combating terrorism* *Three separate motions to be debated together and brought to a conclusion within 60 minutes, with questions to be put on each motion separately; any divisions claimed to be taken immediately) Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Second Stage of the Non-Binary and Intersex Recognition Bill 2026, selected by Independent and Parties Technical Group. Thursday's business shall be: - Statements on Children\u2019s Health Ireland (to conclude within 2 hours and 25 minutes) Thursday evening business shall be the Motion re Report entitled \"Report on Civil Legal Aid\", sponsored by the Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration. Proposed Arrangements for this week\u2019s business: In relation to Tuesday\u2019s business, it is proposed that: 1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders: (a) the time allocated to Government business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business and the D\u00e1il may sit later than 10.48 p.m.; and (b) private members\u2019 business shall be taken following Government Business with consequential effect on the commencement times for the items following in the ordinary routine of business; 2. the proceedings on the Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Protection of Young Persons (Employment in Food and Beverage Services Sector) Regulations 2026 shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately; 3. the proceedings on the Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2026 shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately; 4. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann of the Marine Planning Policy Statement shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately; 5. the proceedings on the Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and D\u00e1il Reform \"Oral Questions to the Taoiseach and Topical Issues\" shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately; 6. the proceedings on the Motion re Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach under D\u00e1il Standing Order 142 on COM(2026) 560 shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately; and 7. the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at the end of the first speaking round and the following arrangements shall apply: (a) the first-round speeches shall be in accordance with the table below (to be read across); (b) on conclusion of the first speaking round or where speeches conclude before the 3 hours and 24 minutes have elapsed and no other member is offering, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and (c) members may share time. Gov SF Lab Gov SF Mins 20 20 20 12 4 SD Gov SF IPTG Gov Mins 20 12 4 20 12 SF ITG Gov SF OM Mins 4 20 12 4 20 Total 3 hours 24mins In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that: 1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders: (a) the time allotted for Government Business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business and the D\u00e1il may sit later than 9.30 p.m.; and (b) the SOS, pursuant to Standing Order 25(1), shall be taken immediately following the State Apology to the family of the late Brian Stack, which shall be taken at the time when the SOS would normally be taken; 2. the State Apology to the family of the late Brian Stack shall not exceed 2 hours and 20 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (a) the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the sequence contained in the table immediately below (to be read across); (b) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and (c) members may share time; Gov SF Lab Gov SF Mins 30 15 10 8 3 SD Gov SF IPTG Gov Mins 10 8 3 9 7 SF ITG Gov SF OM Mins 3 9 7 3 5 Total 2 hours 10 mins 3. the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2026 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at the end of the first speaking round and the following arrangements shall apply: (a) the first-round speeches shall be in accordance with the table below (to be read across); (b) on conclusion of the first speaking round or where speeches conclude before the 3 hours and 24 minutes have elapsed and no other member is offering, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and (c) members may share time; and Gov SF Lab Gov SF Mins 20 20 20 12 4 SD Gov SF IPTG Gov Mins 20 12 4 20 12 SF ITG Gov SF OM Mins 4 20 12 4 20 Total 3 hours 24 minutes 4. the proceedings on the Motions on Protocol 21 opt-in to EU Counterterrorism and Eurojust measures shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto: (a) the three motions shall be debated together, with separate questions put on all proceedings thereon; (b) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be in accordance with the table below; (c) members may share time; and (d) any divisions claimed thereon shall be taken immediately. Gov SF SD Lab IPTG ITB OM Min Resp. Mins 10 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.5 5 Total 60 minutes In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that: 1. notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders: (a) topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. with consequential effect on the commencement time for Motion re Report entitled \u201cReport on Civil Legal Aid\u201d, and on the time for the adjournment of the D\u00e1il; (b) the D\u00e1il on its rising shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 3rd November 2026; and 2. the Statements on Children\u2019s Health Ireland shall not exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (a) the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the sequence contained in the table immediately below (to be read across); (b) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and (c) members may share time. Gov SF SD Gov SF Mins 25 15 10 10 3 Lab Gov SF IPTG Gov Mins 10 10 3 9 10 SF ITG Gov SF OM Mins 3 9 10 3 5 Total 2 hours 15 mins"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Are the proposed arrangements agreed to?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Not agreed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Do the Deputies have points to raise?"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Deputies know that is not in order. I ask Deputies, except those who are entitled to speak, to resume their seats."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire The Taoiseach has proposed-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler The signage is out of order."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire -----the Defence (Amendment) Bill, which proposes getting rid of the triple lock, not to amend it or not to adjust it, but to get rid of it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler The Ceann Comhairle should suspend. That is in breach of Standing Orders."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire The Taoiseach's response earlier was quite desperate. He looked to me like he was flapping, to be totally honest. It reflects the fact he knows the public does not support getting rid of the triple lock. He knows that-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Deputy's party members are not in order. I ask them to put down those signs. They know they are not in order. I ask them to co-operate with the Chair. We need proper decorum in the Chamber. They know the signs are not in order. Please co-operate with the direction of the Chair."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire I am entitled to raise-----"},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Yes you are but your time is up-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire The Taoiseach is constraining the time because he knows a considerable number of his own party have significant reservations about his proposal on the triple lock."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am afraid Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire's time is up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire There is no reason the debate should not be adjourned tomorrow and continued next week."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"John-Cummins.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Cummins No respect for the Chair."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I ask Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire to resume his seat. The Chair is on her feet. Deputy O'Laoghaire's time is up. I am resuming my seat and I ask Deputies to co-operate with the direction of the Chair. They know they are out of order. Please put down the signs."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett The Government is out of order."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Everybody with the sign up is out of order. I ask Deputies to co-operate with the Chair, who needs to run the Chamber efficiently. The clock is being run down."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald The guillotine is out of order."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach In all jurisdictions, Sinn F\u00e9in decides what the rules are."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Taoiseach, I am in the Chair."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"(Interruptions)."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I ask the Taoiseach to co-operate as well."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn No respect for democracy. The Government is selling out the people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Deputy does not care about the people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am asking Members for the last time. I am on my feet. I am asking for co-operation with the Chair. I thank Deputies for their co-operation. All Deputies, please put the signs down."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Gary Gannon I will tell the Ceann Comhairle what is also out of order. It is the fact that the Taoiseach is hell-bent on breaking a commitment given to the Irish people to pass the Nice treaty and the Lisbon treaty. Has he any recollection of the Seville declaration? Does he not feel he is a custodian of a commitment given to the Irish electorate? It is shameful that he is rolling through the breaking of the triple lock."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Duncan Smith","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Duncan-Smith.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Duncan Smith There is a modest ask today before the debate takes on its full volume. We ask the Chief Whip not to end the debate on the Defence (Amendment) Bill tomorrow but instead to adjourn it. We can then have a proper Second Stage debate on the Defence (Amendment) Bill instead of ramming it through."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett Irish neutrality does not belong to any single government. It belongs to the people. A commitment was made in the Nice and Lisbon treaties about the triple lock and the Taoiseach is in breach of that. When we stick up these signs, we are holding the Government to account for commitments that were made to the Irish people about neutrality, which is their property, not yours."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins I support fellow Deputies who have spoken. We do need extra time. We need this to be debated properly. Irish neutrality cannot be thrown out the window. The whole country is upset and concerned about this and I ask the Taoiseach to reconsider this and give the people the extra time they need. That is what we need to do tomorrow."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Did Deputy \u00d3 Laoghaire propose an amendment?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire The amendment is that the debate be adjourned tomorrow."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett No guillotine."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire No guillotine. That is the proposition."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The question is that the proposed arrangements for the week's business be agreed to and the proposed amendment be negatived."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Can we hear a response from the Chief Whip? Allow us to have a debate."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We are having a debate."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett No guillotine."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy The Chief Whip has not responded."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am now calling the Chief Whip."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Donnchadh-\u00d3-Laoghaire.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donnchadh \u00d3 Laoghaire Just adjourn it. We will debate it the following week."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler Deputies can absolutely hear from the Chief Whip if they allow me to speak and do not try to shout me down. What is shameful about having a debate? The Bill to reform the triple lock will get a full three hours and 34 minutes of debate here on Second Stage tomorrow. It was explained by the Clerk of the D\u00e1il at the Business Committee yesterday that voting has to be completed by 9 o'clock because of the work to rule that we are under orders on."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett It is nothing to do with the work to rule."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn Adjourn Second Stage."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Allow the answer."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett The D\u00e1il is being censored."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash The Government is respecting industrial relations now."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler Maybe I will hold up the sign. Will that do?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett Yes, hold this one up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Please continue, Chief Whip."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler The Bill will then be referred to committee-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash So, last week's strikes were not warranted and industrial action was not warranted but now it has to be respected. Now, industrial action has to be respected."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler -----where there will be opportunity for further debate. I reject the assertions the Government is in any way rushing this through."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald You are."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Butler The Order of Business stands."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Are the proposed arrangements for the week's business agreed to and the proposed amendments negatived?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Ceann Comhairle, that is absolutely disgraceful. All we are asking for is to allow this D\u00e1il to debate it. This should be put to the people."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Are the arrangements agreed to?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Not agreed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy This should be put to the people. The people should be able to vote on this. At the very least, the debate must not be guillotined."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle They are agreed to. I cannot hear objections because I cannot hear the Deputies. Are the proposed arrangements agreed to?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn They are not agreed to."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Not agreed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am putting the question, Deputy Murphy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Not agreed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I am now putting the question. The question is, \"The amendment proposed to the arrangements on the Order of Business is hereby negatived and the proposed arrangements for the week's business are hereby agreed to.\""},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Not agreed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy What is the Government so afraid of? Why are they opposed to a debate? They are afraid of their own backbenchers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Thirty-six people from Depaul's Rendu Apartments in my constituency face eviction on 27 November. Of those, 15 are children. One is a newborn baby, one is a woman undergoing cancer treatment and another is recovering from cardiac arrest. Why are these 36 people facing eviction? The reason is funding of about \u20ac450,000 that is required to make the buildings where they live safe was refused by the Department of housing - by the Taoiseach's colleague, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien. I would like an explanation for that. I would like to know why women and their children are facing eviction on the brow of Christmas because the Government could not come up with such a modest sum of money in the grander scheme of things. We know the Government is pretty indifferent to the issues around homelessness but this is a pretty callous-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The time is up now, Deputy-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald -----example of it and one that is entirely-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle -----and we have to stick to time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald -----avoidable. Can the Taoiseach-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Taoiseach, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald -----ask the Minister to come up with the money-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, we are sticking to time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald -----to save these people from eviction."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle A minute is a minute. The Taoiseach, please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach First of all, we are not indifferent to homelessness. That is an outrageous assertion. I do not have the specifics of this case. I will speak to the Minister for housing, Deputy James Browne. It is not Darragh O'Brien; James Browne is the Minister for housing."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald I did not notice."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I will come back to the Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide Today's The Irish Times reports on the horrific sexual exploitation of a 14-year-old girl, who has an intellectual disability, in Tusla's care by multiple men. The High Court has ordered the girl be moved to a special care setting but the Government has failed to ensure Tusla can provide the protection and support she desperately needs. The court also heard of another teenage girl being sexually exploited by men and a 16-year-old boy being drawn into drug trafficking by adult criminals. These cases are so serious the judge took the extraordinary step of ordering that the Ministers, Deputies Foley, O'Callaghan and Chambers, be informed of them. Nearly half the State's 26 special care beds remain closed because of staffing shortages. It is utterly shameful that in 2026 children who have already suffered extreme adversity are being subjected to appalling abuse and exploitation while in State care. What immediate action will the Taoiseach's Government take to protect these children and when will all 26 special care beds be safely operational?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The case reported this morning is very serious and deeply worrying. The Minister, Deputy Foley, and other Government colleagues are engaging on this case. The fundamental issue is, as the Deputy said, a shortage of staff in terms of being in a position to open all 26 special care beds. At the moment 15 of the 26 special care beds are staffed. These are for children with particularly complex needs who need sufficient and significant staffing resources. Sometimes it can be as high as 14 staff to an individual child or young person. It is not for the want of funding or supports but in a very core, complex number of cases the recruitment of staff has proven to be extremely difficult. However, the Government is continuing to work on this and on this case."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik I want to again express my deepest sympathy to the family and community of Kim, Philip, Callum and Jayden English, whose funerals took place in Waterford yesterday. I know our thoughts are also with the two surviving children who are receiving care in Crumlin children's hospital. We must ensure that the horrific crime carried out against this family becomes a pivotal moment in the national response to drug debt intimidation because we know that families and entire communities across the country are being terrorised. As a constituency TD, I regularly hear from and support those who are being targeted by drug gangs. Gangs are taking over entire neighbourhoods and flat complexes. They extort from innocent people and vulnerable drug users. As has occurred in Waterford, they even take the lives of people. Tackling this violence will require a great deal of work but we do owe it to the memory of the English family. One commitment I ask the Taoiseach to make today is to ensure adequate funding for the DRIVE project - the drug related intimidation and violence engagement programme, which is a national interagency programme. The funding increase announced last month is well short of what is needed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I call on the Taoiseach to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ivana Bacik","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Ivana-Bacik.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ivana Bacik Could we see a commitment to adequate funding?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach First of all, I agree 100% with the Deputy. We are all still shocked at what transpired in Waterford last week and our hearts go out to the family of Kim and Philip English and their children who lost their lives and the two more who are in hospital. We have significantly increased the resources for An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. The DRIVE initiative is strongly supported. Since its launch, more than 800 individuals across the 24 drug and alcohol task force areas have received training to support those impacted by drug-related intimidation. I will talk to the Minister again in terms of anything additional. I think it is the right approach. A multidisciplinary, multi-pronged approach is probably the correct one to deal with this issue of intimidation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy The current income limits for council housing are completely outdated. They are too low and they need to be increased urgently. These low limits have the effect of locking large numbers of low and middle income families out of both public housing and of private home ownership. Families do not qualify for council housing or for the housing assistance payment nor do they qualify for a mortgage, so they are condemned to rent privately at enormous rents forevermore. They cannot save for a deposit because of that. Some of these families have been on council lists for anything up to ten years only to be removed on review. I know the Taoiseach is going to tell me about various schemes, like help to buy, affordable housing and rent to buy, but these categories of families do not qualify for these schemes. They live from week to week and cannot afford a deposit. These income limits need to be increased urgently."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I agree with the Deputy. The Minister for housing is undertaking a review of this and is giving very serious consideration to some related issues that have to be dealt with as well in the context of increasing the thresholds but he is certainly actively looking at it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless The murder of Detective Garda Colm Horkan in 2020 shocked the nation. In Mayo it brought back very painful memories of when two garda\u00ed from Mayo were killed in the line of duty - John Morley and Henry Byrne - in 1980. In recent days the family has come forward and called for a full independent public inquiry into the circumstances of Colm's death and the role the holster may have played. I have spoken to the family, whose request for transparency into what happened that night has been ignored. Today the Irish Examiner reports that Garda management was aware of the holster as far back as a year before the death of Colm Horkan. Does the Taoiseach support the family's call for a full, independent public inquiry?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach A horrendous trauma was visited upon the Horkan family following the murder of Colm Horkan. We should not lose sight of the fact that a person has been convicted of that murder. We should not make assertions yet that there may be other factors involved. It was referred to Fiosr\u00fa but my understanding is that it is not being actively engaged with. The Minister is anxious to be as responsive as possible to the Horkan family but we are not convinced that a public inquiry is necessarily the way to provide transparency, information and the facts to the family, to which they are entitled. I will talk to the Minister in respect of this but the Minister is engaging with it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shane Moynihan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shane-Moynihan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Shane Moynihan My constituency of Dublin Mid-West is one of the constituencies in the State in which hundreds and thousands of new homes are being built for families. It is important that infrastructure keeps up with this rapid housing growth and one particular area is public transport. Congestion is now a feature of life for people in Lucan, Clondalkin, Adamstown and Clonburris. This is why it is important that we bring forward the funding for DART+ South West as a priority, to enable the building of new houses and to enable a quality of life, and, in the interim period, to fund the bus services that are needed to connect people in Adamstown and Clonburris to the city centre, taking pressure off existing services in the constituency and to see whether additional carriages can be put on the train lines to support commuters in Clondalkin, Kishoge, Adamstown and Hazelhatch. This is a priority to bring people with us as we zone land for housing and to show them that housing growth should not impact on the overall quality of life in the communities we all represent."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I fully agree with Deputy Moynihan in respect of the centrality of infrastructure. The DART+ South West project is key enabler in the overall programme that would quadruple peak-hour capacity on the line from 5,000 passengers to 20,000 passengers. It would be a significant game changer. Since the Deputy first raised this issue with me, I have been in touch and I have been advocating very strongly with the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and the Minister of State, Deputy Canney. Funding has been allocated to DART+ South West to progress to planning and design and procurement between 2026 and 2030. I hope the Minister will be in a position to confirm realising the project. Deputy Moynihan is right in terms of the bus services. Hopefully the Minister will be in a position to expand public transport services in particular in 2027. A total of 140 services are due to be expanded and hopefully Clonburris will be part of this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Brennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Brian-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Brian Brennan I warmly welcome the Government's arts capital investment fund announced in budget 2027. My concern is for the towns and villages that do not have existing entertainment venues. I feel they are simply being excluded. Arklow, for example, is a case study for lack of investment. It has a proud tradition of arts, music and culture but it has no entertainment venue. It does not even have a community hall to hold such events. Do not get me wrong: Arklow will be transformed in the next decade with huge investment in the green energy park, offshore wind turbines and great progress on the greenway. However, as it stands we do not have entertainment venues. If there were to be a concert tonight in Arklow, a town of 14,000 people, the school, the church or the local hotel would have to be used. It is simply wrong. It is a missed opportunity. The lack of investment in the town in the past ten years has simply been deplorable."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank Deputy Brennan for raising this issue. I am very fond of Arklow and have been there on a number of occasions. The wastewater treatment plant is the latest investment we officially opened. It has a beautiful design, which received some celebrated colourful coverage which I cannot repeat in the House. I take the Deputy's point. There is an arts capital investment fund. It is a new \u20ac6 million scheme that delivers on the Government's commitment to explore a dedicated capital scheme for the arts and cultural facilities. There are three categories. I wonder whether it could be of some help to the local authority if there was a particular initiative coming from Wicklow County Council for the Arklow area that we could respond to. If the local authority could come forward with a specific proposal, I would be hopeful that the Government might be in a position to respond."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Since the Taoiseach took office, he has been hell-bent on dismantling our neutrality. His first step on this is dismantling and scrapping the triple lock. Before he was Taoiseach, he believed in the centrality of the triple lock in terms of our neutrality and I completely agree with him on that. Since becoming Taoiseach, he has changed his mind. I find this very convenient. I ask him to ask the people whether they have changed their minds on the triple lock, something that was promised to them. Irish neutrality does not belong to the Taoiseach or to me, but to the people and the people should have their say on it. Will the Taoiseach put it to the people and ask them whether they want him to scrap the triple lock?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I am not going to be intimidated or browbeaten by campaigns of untruths-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell I am 5 ft."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald A 5 ft woman."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach -----and falsehoods. I am not on any campaign that is intent on dismantling Irish neutrality. The triple lock is not in the Irish Constitution."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald We are aware of that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach There is no need for a referendum to amend something that is not in the Constitution in the first instance."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn You know the promise you made."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The Deputies knows this but they ignore it. This is about the campaign."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald No, it is about Irish neutrality."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach It is not about the truth and it is not about objectivity. I also have to say, through the Chair, that it is unacceptable the degree to which people on the Government side are constantly interrupted when we speak whereas we allow Members of the Opposition to speak without interruption, as I have on all occasions this afternoon."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell I did not interrupt."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The reality of this is that there seems to be one rule for Sinn F\u00e9in and a different rule for everybody else in the House."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle It is the same rule for everyone, Taoiseach."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach It is not actually."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Well, it is."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach In Northern Ireland we witnessed it during Covid-19 and so on like that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell I have an issue with that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach What I want to say is that my only commitment is-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn You abandoned the nationalist community. As Fianna F\u00e1il leader-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach My only commitment is to peace-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn -----like all that came before you, you abandoned them. Now neutrality."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Sorry, Deputy. We have a problem here, a Cheann Comhairle."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle We do; you are out of time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach It is not \"out of time\". The problem is the constant heckling-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"P\u00e1draig-MacLochlainn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy P\u00e1draig Mac Lochlainn You accused our party of being Nazi sympathisers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The problem is the constant heckling and interruption when I endeavour-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I appreciate that, Taoiseach."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach There is no point appreciating it. There should be no Order of Business if this continues."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I have asked-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach If this continues, there will be no Order of Business. I will not be turning up if I cannot say what I have to say. Just be on notice, a Cheann Comhairle."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell I did not interrupt the Taoiseach, to be very clear. It was a question that I asked-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy, resume your seat."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell -----and I am not intimidating. I have an issue with the Taoiseach saying that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Claire Kerrane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Claire-Kerrane.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Claire Kerrane We have had good news on housing in County Roscommon, with a planning proposal approved in Monksland in south Roscommon this morning. It will follow a number of housing developments that have happened in the area. Similarly in Ballinasloe I attended a meeting last Thursday night with regard to a number of housing developments, all of which are very welcome. We have a need for affordable housing in Roscommon and Galway for those people who cannot get on the council list and cannot get a mortgage very easily. There is also the infrastructure in the communities to be built around this housing. Residents who already live in the area are coming to me to say they are happy for more houses to be built, and they want them, but they also want the amenities, services, supports and supermarkets, in the case of Monksland, to follow. Will the Taoiseach please direct the local authorities once again, via the Minister for housing, that it is about communities, and services should go hand-in-hand with the housing developments, particularly in rural communities?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Yes, I will talk to the Minister in respect of this. I am glad Deputy Kerrane has welcomed the significant housing that is happening now in Roscommon in Monksland. She also mentioned Ballinasloe. Affordable housing is a key issue for people, particularly those above the social housing income thresholds. I will certainly engage with the Minister in respect of the issues the Deputy has raised. The optimal position is that we have community services going hand-in-hand with housing developments."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"William Aird","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"William-Aird.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy William Aird Given the lengthy waiting times under the warmer homes scheme, will the Government bring forward or amend existing legislation so that vulnerable applicants, especially older people living alone, are prioritised? Recently I dealt with an 89-year-old lady, a constituent of mine, who has been approved for the scheme. She has been told it may take up to two years before her works are even started or completed. Her home is cold and damp but her age, her health or the condition of her home cannot be taken into account when determining the priority. I appreciate that clear criteria must apply to any national scheme to ensure fairness and accountability but there must be scope for exceptional cases and common sense must prevail. The warmer homes scheme is essential for vulnerable isolated people. Flexibility would ensure the benefit reaches those who need it most when they need it most."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Perhaps we do not need legislation to make this accommodation or to make these changes. In terms of broader retrofitting schemes, the Minister is more going directly to the person, with the grants going directly to the contractors, to get the job done and to try to bypass some of the bureaucratic processes. This is different, in the context of the warmer homes scheme. I will talk to the Minister about this because he is an open kind of guy and he is into reform and doing things as expeditiously as possible. Certainly in the case of the 89-year-old which Deputy Aird has outlined, it seems very clearly urgent and the kind of case we want to support. We have to understand, to be fair to the scheme itself, that people have to try to administer it. I will talk to the Minister to see what he can do in respect of that, if the Deputy will give us the details of the case."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould On Sunday, republicans in Cork and London will remember two republicans who died on hunger strike. Ard-Mh\u00e9ara Chorca\u00ed Terence MacSwiney began his hunger strike in the detention centre, the old Cork Prison, a building that the Government now intends to demolish. He spent his first night there with the chain of office that the Taoiseach once wore as Ard-Mh\u00e9ara of Cork. Seventy-four days later, he died on hunger strike in Brixton Prison. Now the Government wants to demolish that prison building. That prison is Cork's Kilmainham and it must be saved. On the same day, on Sunday, we will remember Joe Murphy, who died in Cork Gaol. That was demolished. Republicans and Irish people need to remember their history. Will the Taoiseach give a commitment today not to demolish the old Cork Prison? If other prisons need to be built, they should be on greenfield sites. Cork's history and republican history must be remembered."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Lou McDonald","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Mary-Lou-McDonald.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mary Lou McDonald Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I think we have had a noble and historic tradition in Cork never to create division over the legacy of the two martyred Lord Mayors of Cork, Terence MacSwiney and Tom\u00e1s Mac Curtain. I am a republican. I come from a republican family, members of which served in the IRA and in Cumann na mBan contemporaneously with Terence MacSwiney and Tom\u00e1s Mac Curtain. I know full well the necessity and importance of conserving and preserving their legacy and heritage, as we have done by naming various parts and dimensions of our city after both Lord Mayors. Indeed, as the Deputy knows, they are very well remembered in Cork City Hall, which was burned during the War of Independence. My late grandfather was in de Valera's guard of honour when the new building was opened in 1932. We all share a heritage, Deputy, and I do not think we should-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould Will the Taoiseach commit not to demolish the old Cork Prison?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Deputy Michael Murphy is on his feet, Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould He never answered my question."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Michael-Murphy.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Murphy The closure of the memory clinic in Cashel came as a huge blow to my constituency and the wider region, and it was a particular blow to the families of loved ones suffering from dementia. As of July this year, there was a waiting list of more than 450. I suspect that figure is now more than 600. I acknowledge that the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, is in the Chamber. I acknowledge his work. We urgently need both a short-term solution, whether that is some type of blitz clinic, and a medium- to long-term solution, which is the establishment of a memory assessment and support service. Best practice in dementia care is very clear. Referrals should be seen within six weeks. At present, we have people waiting more than three years. I think our elderly people, particularly those in south Tipperary, deserve better. As I said, I acknowledge the work of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell. I look forward to working with him on that short-term and long-term solution."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kieran O'Donnell) I know the Deputy's interest in this on behalf of his constituents. The south Tipperary memory clinic has been paused, but I want to see it reopened as quickly as possible. I have met HSE personnel in the region. I have been in touch with them, and I had a formal meeting on 29 September. I had a further meeting scheduled for last week. I am rescheduling it for this week because it had to be deferred. I understand the real concerns of people in the area regarding waiting times. The situation is unacceptable. I want to get the clinic up and running as quickly as possible. There are some alternative options. People can go to GP services and the integrated care programme for older persons, ICPOP, teams. Fundamentally, we want to get the south Tipperary memory clinic reopened. We then want to examine the en masse rollout in the region. I look forward to working with the Deputy and the HSE locally to get this reopened."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke The HSE acquired the old Blarney golf links hotel and has developed a 50-bed unit there. Some 30 beds are currently managed by Mercy University Hospital. People are discharged from hospital and follow-up rehabilitation care is provided there. The remaining 20 beds are idle because funding is not available to staff them. Those 20 beds are for neurorehabilitation. Will a commitment be given to provide the necessary funding in 2027 so that those 20 beds can become operational and we can move people out of Cork University Hospital? The beds being provided for neurorehabilitation are an extremely important development. The 20 beds are lying idle at present, and it is important that they are brought into use."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank the Deputy for the question. As he knows, the Mercy regional rehabilitation unit, MRRU, is under the governance of Mercy University Hospital and provides 30 level 2 older persons rehabilitation beds, of which 24 are operational. HSE South West can confirm that a regional strategic rehabilitation group is reviewing rehabilitation services across the region. The MRRU is part of that group, and a workstream has been established to increase neurorehabilitation services. It is co-chaired by the chief executive officers of Mercy University Hospital and Cork University Hospital. This group will review the various workstreams, including governance, workforce and operational guidelines. The aim is that, following the national service plan 2027, HSE South West will deliver 20 level 2 neurorehabilitation beds in 2027, subject to funding."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Michael-Healy-Rae.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Healy-Rae Thirteen days ago, we had a saltwater intrusion into the groundwater source for the Ballyheigue public water supply. It also affects the western Clanmaurice group water scheme and parts of Ardfert and Kilmoyley. This is very serious, as it affects more than 4,000 customers, including businesses, schools, residents, and older people and vulnerable people. The unusual thing about this is that it is probably the most serious effect we have had on a public water supply in my living memory. The long-term outlook is very worrying. I commend Irish Water on identifying the problem and trying to deal with it. There are what I would call communication difficulties. Even as late as today, there have been difficulties with the delivery of bottled water. Not enough is happening quickly enough. We need to do more and have a more organised approach. I want the Government to support us in dealing with this problem."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank the Deputy very much for raising this issue. I was alerted to it this morning by the Minister from your constituency. This is a very serious issue. I was taken aback when I heard about it. Uisce \u00c9ireann issued a do-not-consume notice for the public water supply in Ballyheigue, Kilmoyley, Causeway and surrounding areas on 7 October. Uisce \u00c9ireann has mobilised operational and water-quality teams to respond to the issue. Investigations remain ongoing, and extensive monitoring and testing of the raw water source continue. Current investigations are focused on suspected saltwater ingress affecting the source water, with teams working around the clock to determine the precise cause and implement any necessary corrective measures. I hear what the Deputy is saying, namely, that not enough has been done quickly enough. I will revert to Uisce \u00c9ireann on that question. Uisce \u00c9ireann is providing alternative water supplies, bottled water and bulk-water arrangements, with supports available for customers and ongoing engagement with schools, businesses and other key stakeholders."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Lipoedema is a painful and chronic condition affecting one in 11 women. If men were affected like this, there is no doubt that full treatment would be available in Ireland. However, because it is a women's health issue, like endometriosis, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, PMDD, and abortion, lipoedema has been neglected, with women waiting years for a diagnosis, never mind treatment. Until the end of last year, the HSE was reimbursing lipoedema surgeries carried out abroad under the cross-border healthcare directive within four to six weeks. This year, women are waiting ten months after borrowing money in the belief that they could repay it quickly. The HSE promised to tell the support network if reimbursement was being stopped and is still saying there is a backlog. I am now told that an HSE staff member has let slip to one of the women that the HSE has paused the applications. What is going on? It is outrageous. I have a photograph here of the legs of a woman affected by this debilitating condition. How dare the HSE and the Minister mess her around? What is the Government going to do about it?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I do not accept the Deputy's first point about women's health. Over the past five years, in particular, there has been very significant investment in women's health across the board. The former Minister, Stephen Donnelly, was particularly proactive in providing a range of services. We have more to do, particularly when one considers the Women's Health Action Plan and the progress to date. There is now approximately \u20ac180 million in specific funding. There are four additional postnatal hubs, bringing the national network to 13. We have the free contraception scheme. There are also see-and-treat ambulatory gynaecology clinics, of which there are now 19 across the country, established in rapid time. There are six specialist menopause clinics, free HRT medications, dispensing fees and so on, and six regional fertility hubs. I could go on. On the specific issue, the cross-border directive is in place and we have to abide by and adhere to that. I will follow up with the HSE in respect of the specific issue."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle The Deputy and Taoiseach may correspond further, should they wish."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"An tOrd Gn\u00f3 - Order of Business"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_8","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Protection of Young Persons (Employment in Food and Beverage Services Sector) Regulations 2026: Referral to Joint Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_8","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler) I move: That the proposal that D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann approves the following Regulations in draft: Protection of Young Persons (Employment in Food and Beverage Services Sector) Regulations 2026, a copy of which has been laid in draft form before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 24th September, 2026, be referred to the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Tourism and Employment, in accordance with Standing Order 103(5), which, not later than 11th November, 2026, shall send a message to the D\u00e1il in the manner prescribed in Standing Order 110, and Standing Order 109(2) shall accordingly apply."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Protection of Young Persons (Employment in Food and Beverage Services Sector) Regulations 2026: Referral to Joint Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_9","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2026: Referral to Joint Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_9","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler) I move: That the proposal that D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann approves the following Regulations in draft: Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2026, a copy of which has been laid in draft form before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on the 9th October, 2026, be referred to the Joint Committee on Agriculture and Food, in accordance with Standing Order 103(5), which, not later than 18th November, 2026, shall send a message to the D\u00e1il in the manner prescribed in Standing Order 110, and Standing Order 109(2) shall accordingly apply."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2026: Referral to Joint Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_10","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"Marine Planning Policy Statement: Motion","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_10","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Christopher O'Sullivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Christopher-O'Sullivan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan) I move: That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann: \u2014 approves the adoption and publication of the Marine Planning Policy Statement, which has been prepared by the Minister for Climate, Energy and the Environment in accordance with Part 1, Section 6, subsection 4 of the Maritime Area Planning Act 2021, as amended; \u2014 notes that a copy of the Marine Planning Policy Statement and associated statutory environmental reports, in addition to the public consultation report, were laid before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 25th August, 2026; and \u2014 welcomes the marine planning policies and priorities outlined therein, which will enhance the marine planning system, and assist the State in delivering its climate, environmental and renewable energy objectives."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Marine Planning Policy Statement: Motion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_15","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and D\u00e1il Reform: Motion","counts":{"speechCount":2,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_15","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Given the week that is in it, I welcome a special group from Waterford, namely, the Waterford ladies from the Waterford Farm Family. They are most welcome. I ask the Chief Whip, Deputy Butler, to move the motion."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler) I move: That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann adopts the Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and D\u00e1il Reform entitled \"Oral Questions to the Taoiseach and Topical Issues\", a copy of which were laid before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 16th October, 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and D\u00e1il Reform: Motion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_16","debateType":"statement","bill":null,"showAs":"Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Motion","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_16","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler) I move: That D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann: (1) notes the agreed Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach under Standing Order 142 on the following proposal: Proposal for a COUNCIL DIRECTIVE amending Directives 2003\/49\/EC, 2009\/133\/EC, 2011\/96\/EU, (EU) 2016\/1164, (EU) 2017\/1852, (EU) 2025\/50 as regards the simplification of the Union framework on direct taxation and supporting growth and competitiveness of the EU, COM(2026) 560; which was laid before D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann on 16th October, 2026 in accordance with Standing Order 142(3)(b); (2) having regard to the aforementioned Report, and in exercise of its functions under section 7(3) of the European Union Act 2009, is of the opinion that the proposal does not comply with the principle of subsidiarity for the reasons set out in paragraph 4 of the Report; and (3) notes that, pursuant to Standing Order 142(4), a copy of this Resolution together with the Reasoned Opinion and the aforementioned Report shall be sent to the Presidents of the European Parliament, the Council and the Commission."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Motion"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_17","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna - Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_18","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Cabinet Committees","counts":{"speechCount":50,"speakerCount":17},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_18","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shay Brennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shay-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shay-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_18.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 25, inclusive, together. The Cabinet committee on the economy, trade and competitiveness last met on 25 May and is scheduled to meet next on 23 November. In addition, I chaired a competitiveness summit in July where Ministers were briefed by the National Competitiveness and Productive Council, IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland. The committee oversees the implementation of the programme for Government commitments relating to sustainable economic and employment growth, trade, competitiveness and productivity, innovation, the national digital strategy and pensions. As with all policy areas, issues relating to the economy are regularly discussed at full Cabinet meetings where all formal decisions are made. The economy is performing well despite times of great economic uncertainty, with record numbers of people in work, low unemployment and strong Exchequer returns. As set out in budget 2027, we will continue to advance an economic model founded on a pro-enterprise policy framework, a stable and sustainable regulatory and tax environment and sound management of the public finances. It is essential that we continue to protect our economic success and future-proof our economy through competitiveness. Mindful of all this, we are investing in the infrastructure, energy and skills required to ensure our future competitiveness and productivity. The updated national development plan represents one of the largest and most significant capital injections in our economy in the history of the State. It sets out total public capital investment of \u20ac275.4 billion out to 2035. Total capital infrastructure investment in 2026 is estimated at close to \u20ac19.1 billion by year end, with \u20ac20.3 billion allocated for 2027. This represents the highest annual spend to date and is in line with the objectives of the revised national development plan. We are continuing to implement our action plan on competitiveness and productivity, which focuses on economic areas within our domestic sphere of control. Through budget 2027, we are supporting Irish SMEs to grow and scale successfully through a \u20ac1 billion investment programme by the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund, ISIF. Enterprise Ireland will establish startup Ireland as a national entrepreneurship initiative and single-entry point for founders, while the growth and sustainability loan scheme will assist Irish companies to develop their businesses. We are also extending a range of tax supports, such as the employment investment incentive, the start-up capital incentive and the start-up relief for entrepreneurs, among others. We are providing further enhancements to the research and development tax credit through more attractive sub-contracting provisions, increased first-year payment thresholds and a reduced administrative burden. The reduction in the capital gains tax, CGT, rate from 33% to 31% will also support entrepreneurship and investment. A new AI Office of Ireland has been established. This office will play an important strategic role as it works with regulators, businesses and the public to not only promote the safe, responsible adoption of AI but also to support innovation and wider competitiveness. Last week the Government hosted the International AI Summit in Dublin, in conjunction with the European Commission's AI innovation month. Additional information not given on the floor of the House The summit offered a platform to demonstrate how Ireland and Europe can harness AI to drive competitiveness, innovation, investment, productivity and sustainable growth. More importantly, it showcased Ireland as the place to apply AI, as a global tech nation with the people, economy and ecosystem that will allow us to benefit from and take advantage of the changes AI will bring. We are building up fiscal reserves for our future with a further \u20ac1 billion allocated to the Future Ireland Fund in budget 2027. Outside of our domestic control the situation in the Middle East remains volatile and highly uncertain. The Government understands the significant pressure being felt by individuals, families and businesses across the country due to the impacts this is having on the cost of living and the cost of doing business. We have taken action to help households and businesses but we cannot mitigate every increase in cost. The package of Government support measures is helping to reduce the cost burden at the petrol pump, supports those most at risk of energy poverty and assists key sectors such as agriculture and haulage that are critical to keeping our economy moving. Under budget 2027 we are reducing the carbon tax on home heating oil and natural gas, increasing the fuel allowance by \u20ac5 per week and extending the current fuel excise reductions to 28 February 2027. We will continue to make critical investments to secure our economic future while preserving the jobs, stability and prosperity of today."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle As there are 25 Deputies, there will be 30 seconds each. If Members do not turn up, we will take a second round."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore Every single time we raise concerns on this side of the House in relation to data centres and the enormous amount of electricity they are using, the Government and its Ministers just talk about jobs, the tech jobs that Ireland has. Of course, that is very important but let us look at other countries in Europe. In Ireland we are using 23% of our electricity at the moment for data centres."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Your time is up Deputy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore Seriously?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle I know but there are 25 Members."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach There are not 25 Members here at the moment."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Finish the question."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore Sweden has 9% of its workforce in the tech sector and only uses 3% of its electricity for data centres. In Finland, 8% of its workers are in the tech sector but it uses 2% of its electricity for data centres. In Ireland, 6% of our workforce is in the tech sector-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Thank you, Deputy. Deputy O'Gorman please."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore -----and we are using 23%. Can the Taoiseach explain the discrepancies there?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Roderic O'Gorman Battery e-cars now lead the market in new car sales in Ireland. They are ahead of hybrids, petrol and diesel cars but just when Irish consumers are looking to buy e-cars that are cheaper to run, the EU is moving in the exact opposite direction. There is a proposal from the German and French Governments to water down the EU's CO2 emissions cuts for new cars by 2035 from 100% to 80%. It is an historic mistake. It is bad for Irish consumers, for EU industry and for our carbon targets. Will the Taoiseach oppose this in the European Council?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Please stop the clock for a moment. Deputies, I am not trying to be difficult. We have 17 minutes. Deputies may turn up. I can give you an opportunity to pose your question in 30 seconds and come in a second time if Deputies do not turn up. If I take everybody at a minute, you will get no response and we will only get one question in. I am in your hands. I am saying 30 seconds, so that you can prepare. I do not choose the number of Deputies. There are 25 down for the question. There are 15 Deputies here."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Can we have 45 seconds?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle No, because we will not get an answer. Do you want an answer?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We are losing time now."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle We are not. I have stopped the clock. I cannot have people choosing to take a minute if we are agreeing 30 seconds, with the opportunity for everybody and a response. Can we say 30 seconds?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan I will take 29 seconds."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle Go ahead. Start the clock again."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan I raised plug-in solar with the Taoiseach back in February, as well as in April, May and June. I raised it the year before in July at the climate and energy committee. The Department confirmed that ESB Networks was working on a group report that would be issued in September. It is now 20 October. Constituents, renters and people across Ireland will benefit from plug-in solar systems being rolled out. Does the Taoiseach have an update for the Irish public to save money?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness The recent regional strategy for prosperity and connectivity launched by the Waterford Chamber of Commerce targets a \u20ac45 billion economy for the connected south-east region over the coming decades. Has the Taoiseach read the report? What will he do to promote regional economic growth so that decisions taken in Dublin work for regions outside Dublin and ensure that areas like the south east and Waterford city can live up to their potential?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Liam Quaide","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Liam-Quaide.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Liam Quaide IBEC has repeatedly called on the Government to put the enormous surplus in the National Training Fund, NTF, to work. That is money contributed by employers specifically to develop the skills of our workforce, yet approximately \u20ac2 billion has accumulated in that fund. The Social Democrats have consistently called for this money to be invested in apprenticeships, upskilling and retraining and to protect against the threats posed by AI to many jobs. Beyond the \u20ac360 million announced in budget 2027, how much of the accumulated NTF surplus does the Government intend to release over the next three years? Will the Government commit to accelerated investment in apprenticeships, training and retraining, with clear targets for the number of workers who will benefit?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn We are in a cost-of-doing-business crisis here and the Government is actively pushing up costs. This month the CRU will put another \u20ac41 on bills. That is on top of \u20ac500 per year on network charges. Electricity bills in this country are the highest on the planet at the moment. We are trying to get people to move from fossil fuels to electricity. How is that going to happen if we keep putting up the price of electricity? We are the dearest country in Europe in terms of housing, health and energy. Will the Government commit to reducing network charges on the system in Ireland?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Darren O'Rourke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Darren-O'Rourke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Darren O'Rourke I welcome the establishment of the AI office. At the AI committee and at a number of conferences last week, we discussed with trade union members their role in the roll-out of AI. We discussed its potential to improve productivity but there are real concerns that the voices of workers will not be heard. One of the central asks from the trade unions is for collective bargaining. Is that something the Taoiseach sees as a priority in terms of competitiveness?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Last week we saw that it is public sector workers and ordinary workers in this country who make society run, not the likes of Michael O'Leary. The Taoiseach's response has been to say that there must be productivity elements. How can one squeeze blood from a stone? Our workforce is already enormously productive. The Taoiseach is talking about worsening public services. Also, the \u20ac1.6 billion he is talking about is an absolute insult. It will be rejected by workers because it amounts to 4%. Inflation is currently running at 4.1%. People are striking and taking action for real, long-term, significant pay increases."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett Tomorrow postgraduate researchers, of whom there are many thousands, who actually do the research in our third-level institutions will be out protesting. They are continuing with their planned protest action because most of them are living on stipends that are below the minimum wage. It is outrageous when they are in our third-level institutions. In the budget, the Government found \u20ac118 million to give to the big multinational corporations, that are worth billions and whose CEOs are on extraordinary salaries, in research and development tax relief. Why does the Government not give it to the postgraduate researchers instead of the millionaires?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh I ask the Taoiseach to have a comprehensive, independent cost-benefit analysis of data centres for sustainable growth on the island of Ireland, examining their economic contribution, infrastructure demands and opportunity costs and to establish how many centres Ireland actually needs and where they should be located. Approximately 23% of Ireland's electricity is now consumed by data centres. This raises serious questions about sustainable growth, economic competitiveness and the increasing capacity constraints on our electricity and utility infrastructure. We cannot have a situation where data centres secure grid connections while new homes and businesses cannot be connected."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Malcolm Byrne I welcome the establishment of the Cabinet committee on artificial intelligence, which the Taoiseach will chair. I commend the Government on the hosting of the International AI Summit last week, and particularly our colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Niamh Smyth, for all of her work. Given the success of the summit, will the Taoiseach commit to it becoming an annual event for Ireland to host?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara Infrastructural developments such as the western rail corridor are key to economic growth in the west of Ireland. That is why it is very disappointing to read reports that following the Taoiseach's intervention, Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann, has permitted the development of a greenway on the Collooney to Bellaghy section of the rail line. This is extremely short-sighted and puts the integrity of the corridor at risk. Once a greenway is put on the line it will prove very difficult to ever remove it to restore the rail line. A greenway will not drive the kind of economic development we want to see in the west and that a reopened rail line can deliver. The Taoiseach has made a serious miscalculation here. There has been a huge backlash against this decision and I am asking him to recognise that it is the wrong decision."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Shay Brennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Shay-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Shay-Brennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Shay Brennan The action plan on market diversification committed to a new trade and investment strategy this year. The action plan states that this must be guided by Global Ireland 2040. When will Global Ireland 2040 be published and will it set measurable diversification targets with ring-fenced agency resources for growth markets in order to develop Ireland's trade resilience?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Albert Dolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Albert-Dolan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Albert Dolan Mishn\u00f3c leather, a Galway business, has highlighted that it can no longer sell across Europe because of the regulatory burden associated with packaging compliance. Under the EU's packaging waste regulations, small retailers face separate extended producer responsibility registration requirements in different member states. Will the Taoiseach push for a single EU-wide, one-stop shop for packaging compliance similar to the VAT system so that small Irish businesses can genuinely benefit from the Single Market?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Tony McCormack","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Tony-McCormack.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Tony McCormack FDI has been an extraordinary success for Ireland but a strong indigenous business sector is vital for our long-term economic security. Generations of Irish people have gained world-class skills and expertise working in multinationals. We have an opportunity to turn that talent into Irish-owned global businesses. I have always believed that if we are going to do something we should aim to do the best. If startup Ireland is implemented with that ambition, there is no reason the next Intel or Google cannot be from Ireland."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach In respect of data centres, for the past five years we have essentially had a moratorium on data centres, which does not get acknowledged at all. That is not sustainable because data centres are a part of the digital economy. It depends on the prism through which you look. I accept fully that there is an energy issue. Obviously, there was good news this morning in the interesting commentary from EirGrid that there was less possibility of outages this year compared with last year and the year before. The grid is expanding. Some of that is due to rooftop solar, to go back to Deputy Heneghan's point, and some of it is due to more onshore renewable solar and wind coming on stream, but we need an awful lot more. There is a need for debate. We do not have heavy industry. We do not have steel or an automotive industry, but we have a digital industry. In terms of FDI, we do not get to say to companies that we just want a bit of their operation and we do not want anything else. You can say that, but if you look at other countries around Europe, the big investments on data centres in the past three or four years have not actually been here. An Irish ecosystem of expertise and skills has developed for data centres globally. Some Irish SMEs have been bought out now, they are so strong in their expertise and capacities in building high-quality data centres. The debate is a bit broader than it is being reduced to. I acknowledge fully that it grew exponentially over a decade, and we need to reflect on the balance between energy demand and the creation of further data centres. That is why the large energy users connection policy was outlined by the CRU to create a pathway for new data centre applications through the electricity system. The large energy user action plan, LEAP, is aimed at enabling sustainable growth in strategic energy-intensive industries, including data centres, over the medium term. The other big users will be semiconductors. We have a strong position on semiconductors in Ireland. It has been hugely transformative with companies like Intel and Analog. We have a very important sector in Ireland. The growth of AI is creating a new wave of investment on the semiconductor side, which could be beneficial to Ireland. The challenge is how we deal with the energy question. We had a Cabinet subcommittee yesterday on PR6. We are now looking beyond PR6, which is an approximately \u20ac18 billion enhancement of the grid out to 2030, to a substantial expansion of the grid well into the future. That will need buy-in from everyone in the House because it means proper overhead lines and every kind of enhancement of the grid if we want to maintain jobs. I know Deputy Whitmore did not mean it, but she said that we \"just talk about jobs\"."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore The Government does not take any other factors into account."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Jobs are key to people's livelihoods."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jennifer Whitmore","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Jennifer-Whitmore.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jennifer Whitmore Data centres do not create jobs."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I come from an era where when I came out of college in the 1980s, it was a disaster. There was 17% unemployment. A lot of people left the country. I still have that in my head. It is deeply embedded in my consciousness. I never thought we would see these days when we have close to full employment. That can change, so we have to be competitive all the time. Maybe that is the difference between this side of the House and the other side. We are still competitive for growth. We are almost hungry for economic growth. It is a fundamental difference and outlook on life, but that is where we are."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh It needs to be sustainable growth."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Deputy Heneghan spoke about plug-in solar. I hear him loud and clear. I have been engaging proactively - I was going to use a different word - with the Minister in respect of this. He told me it was imminent. I think it went to the ESB, which was meant to come back, because the ESB is worried about making sure it is done safely and in accordance with proper procedure, but it is important. Plug-in solar, like solar in general, could be very impactful. That is a big change that is under way. Regarding Deputy Conor McGuinness, I met the Waterford Chamber of Commerce on a number of occasions and am familiar with its reports. I think it is very go-ahead and forward looking. We will respond as we have on a number of initiatives that it has asked us to respond to. Deputy Quaide is not here, but he raised the National Training Fund. The origin of the National Training Fund was not a new PRSI levy. A slice of the existing PRSI base was earmarked for training. The Ministers at the time, Charlie McCreevy and Mary Harney, engineered that. I was in Cabinet. It has now grown to approximately \u20ac2 billion but it was part of the broader PRSI base. The problem is that it is part of the national Exchequer balance, and that creates some challenges. In this budget, the Minister was able, with the Minister, James Lawless, to create a specific fund for AI training. The latter has a substantial fund over the coming three years, which will make a significant difference. Deputy T\u00f3ib\u00edn asked about the costs of doing business. We are doing everything we can to reduce the cost of doing business. Electricity is a problem across Europe and in Ireland. Renewables are key to getting costs down, as is structurally looking at how energy prices are set generally with a view to the gas dimension of electricity prices. Deputy O'Rourke welcomed the establishment of the AI Office. I am establishing a group under the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, with trade unions in respect of the roll-out of AI. That is important. People, including Deputy Paul Murphy, raised the issue of the public service and productivity. I acknowledge the incredible work that the public service is doing. I attended a Civil Service award ceremony two years ago where I saw growth in productivity through system change or the use of technology. It is not about the emotive phrase \"blood out of a stone\". That is not what I am talking about at all. Workers are enthusiastically doing these things in the public service all the time. They come up with new initiatives and new ways of doing things. Revenue has been very efficient. Education and teachers have been efficient. Teachers have been innovative and are leaders in their classrooms and schools and they keep doing things. That is the context, but the bottom line is that we have expanded the public service. I do not think anyone can query that. Deputy Boyd Barrett criticised the tax credits on R and D. That helps us to bring research-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett I want to contrast it with PhD researchers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We would not have PhD researchers if we did not have the tax credits to bring in the R and D investment in the first place, along with our investment in public universities, which is substantial under the INSPIRE programme and the earlier programme for research in third level institutions, PRTLI, of the late 1990s that I introduced. We created, with Science Foundation Ireland, a research ecosystem in this country, which we never had before the late nineties."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett Below the minimum wage."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach The tax credits are important to the companies to sustain investment in the country and to bring new investment that will benefit people. I turn to Deputy Conway-Walsh, who raised the cost-benefit analysis. Various cost-benefit analyses have been done. There was a recent KPMG report that did not find favour with everybody, but I am open to continuing analysis of the situation. Deputy Byrne raised the AI summit. It was a great success story. I thought there were some great speakers, and it helped to demystify some elements of AI as well as raise the frameworks within which AI should be developed. The reality is that AI was here a long time ago. It is a developing situation, and it is welcome that Ireland was in a position to host that summit. As to whether it becomes an annual event, I am open to that, but we need to be careful that we do not try to repeat the same thing twice. There could be other things we could do and other initiatives. We could do something different in the AI space, building on an evaluation of this AI summit. That is something we will certainly consider and will work the Deputy and others in the House in respect of that. Deputy O'Hara raised the greenway. Deputies representing Sligo are supportive of this, certainly on the Government side. The Deputy is wrong to say that, just because something is identified as a greenway, you cannot have a railway in 20 years' time. That is not true. It is not as simple as that. I think the greenway could be beneficial in the fullness of time. The all-island rail review did not suggest that anything could be done there from a railway perspective for another 30 years, and that is a problem. People need to be realistic in terms of what we can do. We are investing-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness Iarnr\u00f3d \u00c9ireann said it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach We are investing in rail, very substantially, across the length and breadth of the country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle We are out of time. The Taoiseach seemed to miss Deputy O'Gorman's question."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Did I?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Verona Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Verona-Murphy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Ceann Comhairle You did."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy Electric cars."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I offer my sincere apologies to Deputy O'Gorman. The question was on the battery e-cars. Germany and France are very concerned about their automotive industry. There are real serious issues for Germany and France. There has to be a degree of realism about that. To be fair to both countries, they are supporting emissions trading system, ETS, 1 and ETS 2, despite huge opposition from other countries on the east against that. Everything is in the round at an European Council meeting. We are making great progress. I am minded to cut some slack for the German and French economies because they are under huge pressure from China but I will see. We have not come to a definitive position yet on it to see how it manifests itself with the Commission as well. Deputy Dolan raised the Mishn\u00f3c leather packages compliances. I would support the single EU-wide one-stop shop approach to it. I will follow up. I am not familiar with the specific elements of the company case here and the degree to which the European scene is impacting on anyone. We are trying to get simplification of EU regulations, not complication. Deputy McCormack is right about the national hub. The real solution is that parallel with FDI - and they are not mutually exclusive - that we develop an indigenous enterprise base of strength in the country. One of the key areas there is not only starting up companies - and the national start-up hub will be helpful - but to scale those companies and create our own global companies, which we are. I mentioned data centres. There are Irish companies all over the world building data centres. Some people might hate that. I do not. They are needed around the world in terms of the digital world. Can we build companies of scale? We have done it in the food industry, in construction and in other areas. Smurfit Westrock would be one of the great examples. CRH would be another example, the Kerry Group, etc. We have done it. Many SMEs in Ireland depend on and grow on the back of the FDI sector in terms of developing their expertise, which can then be used all over Europe and all over the world."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cabinet Committees"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_19","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Cabinet Committees","counts":{"speechCount":14,"speakerCount":11},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_17","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_17","showAs":"Ceisteanna - Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_19","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_19.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I propose to take Questions Nos. 26 to 45, inclusive, together. The Cabinet committee on children and education oversees the implementation of programme for Government commitments in the area of children and education. It receives detailed reports on identified policy areas such as child poverty and well-being, and education. The membership of the Cabinet committee on children and education includes the Taoiseach and the T\u00e1naiste. I will not go through the full list. The programme for Government contains many important commitments intended to improve the lives of all children, and especially those children who need our help most. We are making substantial progress in realising these goals. Government is committed to a multi-year programme to reduce consistent child poverty to 3% or less by the end of 2030. The most significant Survey on Income and Living Conditions, SILC, figures show that we are on this path, revealing that consistent child poverty reduced from 8.5% in 2024 to 7.8% in 2025. Budget 2027 includes a strong package of measures aimed at reducing child poverty through both increased family incomes and lower household costs. Key measures include a \u20ac6 per week increase in child support payments, a \u20ac10 per week increase in core social welfare rates and a \u20ac30 increase in the income thresholds for the working family payment, providing additional support to low and middle-income families. Alongside these income and cost-of-living supports, the Government is also making other important investments, including \u20ac1.8 million provided for an additional ten new family resource centres. A total of \u20ac1.65 billion in current funding has been allocated under budget 2027 for early learning and childcare. This represents an 11% increase on last year's funding or an additional \u20ac161.8 million. Of the total allocation, \u20ac534.6 million will be used to support a range of important priorities in the sector, including the introduction of new maximum fee caps. As part of the early learning and childcare packages in budget 2027, parents' bills will reduce to no more than \u20ac550 a month from next September, for children who are being minded for 45 hours a week - a reduction of 25%. This represents an important milestone in the journey towards permanently reducing the cap on parental fees to \u20ac200 per month within the current Government's lifetime. By making high-quality childcare more accessible and affordable, the Government is helping to close gender gaps in the workforce, reduce financial pressures on families and provide children with the strong foundations they need for future success. The Government's vision for education is to deliver a world-class education system which breaks down barriers and ensures every child can achieve their full potential. A record \u20ac14.4 billion investment has been provided for education and youth services in the budget, with an overall budget allocation of \u20ac5.3 billion for further and higher education, research, innovation and science. The budget also funds the forthcoming child and family homelessness action plan. Preventing homelessness is, and will remain, our first priority. Where homelessness cannot be prevented, this plan will aim to ensure that families find a stable home as quickly as possible, and puts in place the supports needed to ensure that any experience of homelessness is as brief, and as little damaging, as it can be. Meeting the needs of children with disabilities is a priority for me and for Government. That is why we established a dedicated Cabinet committee on disability. The work of this Cabinet committee is progressing important initiatives to respond to the needs and well-being of children. Significant increases in investment in disability services are being delivered. The Cabinet committee on children and education met yesterday and it will meet again in the coming period. Yesterday was predominantly on education issues, the education convention, and also issues pertaining to school transport and to special needs education."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Roderic O'Gorman","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Roderic-O'Gorman.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Roderic O'Gorman Availability of after-school places remains a key problem in my constituency of Dublin West. I have spoken to constituents who have had to switch from full-time work to part-time hours solely due to the lack of after-school places. Using primary school classrooms as locations for after-school services could make a big difference. Will the Taoiseach engage with the Minister for Education and Youth and ask that she would alter the guidance to primary schools regarding making rooms available to after-school providers and make this mandatory in order to increase the availability of after-school services?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness The Taoiseach can well appreciate the demands on parents who are trying, and often unsuccessfully, to find placements for their children. Childcare remains one of the biggest barriers to people participating in the economy, to being employed and to having that job, the Taoiseach mentioned earlier in the Chamber that can lead to so much social good. Will the Taoiseach undertake to have regard to the childcare situation in Waterford, particularly in Dunmore, Dungarvan and Tramore, where parents are routinely finding it impossible to find a suitable placement for their children?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan T\u00e1 pobal Ghaelch\u00f3laiste Reachrann, an fhoireann, na tuismitheoir\u00ed agus na dalta\u00ed ag fanacht le 25 bliain. They are waiting 25 years for permanent school buildings. The Minister for education promised them that construction would begin in quarter 2 of this year. That passed. Construction did not start. Then the promise was quarter 3 of this year. That passed. Construction did not start. Then the promise was quarter 4 of this year. That commitment now is being reneged on and the Department of education is saying it will be sometime in the coming months. When will construction start on the permanent school buildings promised to the school community in Gaelch\u00f3laiste Reachrann? When will that begin?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan T\u00e1 Gaelchol\u00e1iste Reachrann i mo Dh\u00e1ilcheantar f\u00e9in ag fanacht le 25 bliain. Ba \u00e9 an ch\u00e9ad rud a d'ardaigh m\u00e9 i mo ch\u00e9ad chruinni\u00fa nuair a toghadh m\u00e9 don Teach seo. It is one of the priorities for me since day one. For 25 years, this school has been waiting for a permanent building. They were promised construction would begin in quarter 3. That slipped to quarter 4 and in a recent parliamentary question, it was in the coming months. The tender report reached the Department but we need a firm start date. Enough is enough. These children cannot keep waiting. T\u00e1 Gaeilgeoir\u00ed in my D\u00e1ilcheantar ag iarraidh an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim agus go mbeadh-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach Cad a d\u00fairt an Teachta faoin tender?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan The tender report has reached the Department. They had to add in SEN rooms, which was great, but now it is prolonging the whole experience. It is not good enough. It is great to see the SEN rooms but we need a confirmed date for shovels in the ground."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara I want to raise the issue of primary and secondary school teachers not being able to secure permanent teaching contracts. I have been contacted by many local teachers in County Galway about this issue and how it is impacting them. One of these teachers described to me how the inability to secure a permanent contract of indefinite duration, CID, meant she was dependent on daily substitution work. She has no job security and no reliable income. However, we have not seen any moves to address the insecurity that CID requirements are placing on teachers. Will the Government undertake a review of the wider CID system, including how it is being implemented by schools and the oversight the Department has of the system?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh I want to raise the issue of school bus transport. We should not have to be fighting for seats on buses for children these days. Rice College Westport is over capacity, which means parents from Newport have to send their children to Davitt College in Castlebar, yet there is no school bus to be able to do that. There are buses running, but these students cannot be allocated seats on them. I ask the Taoiseach to look into the situation. The nearest school is oversubscribed and the children want to go to Davitt College in Castlebar. It is a real, live situation in Newport that needs to be solved. I am asking for a bit of flexibility and common sense on this so that children can get seats on the bus. It impacts on parents' work and family lives as well."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Murphy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","memberCode":"Paul-Murphy.D.2014-10-10","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Murphy I want to raise Riverview Educate Together National School in Greenhills. I visited the school back in January. The school seems to do incredible work, but it was packed to the brim with students. Back then, I was putting in parliamentary questions about requests for additional school accommodation. The school needs an extension, but it is still waiting and there is no progress. It is going to have real impacts on students, or potential students, in this area. The school has sanction from the Department to go from one stream to two. It has done that for two years, but it is now out of room. If it does not have an agreement for an extension, it will go back to one stream, which means that a huge number of families will be left without an appropriate school place. Some 38% of respondents in that area say their preferred option would be a multidenominational school, but this is the only primary school. If it does not get the extra accommodation, there will only be 25 places come September 2027."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John Connolly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"John-Connolly.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John Connolly The autumn legislative agenda included a Bill to amend the Education (Welfare) Act 2000 to bring under-sixes within the scope of the Educational Welfare Service to ensure earlier intervention for those children and their families. That is to be greatly welcomed, but we also need to look at the other end of the educational journey. We should bring within the scope of the Educational Welfare Service all children in primary and secondary schools who can be referred for its services. Currently, the Educational Welfare Service cannot receive references for over-16s. We know from school completion data that we have high rates of school completion, but if there is an area where it drops off, it is among over-16s. We should use this opportunity to ensure that all children in primary and secondary school can be referred to and benefit from the Educational Welfare Service."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathal Crowe St. Patrick\u2019s National School is a fine primary school in the village of O\u2019Callaghan\u2019s Mills in east Clare. Like many rural schools, its enrolment has dropped in recent years, but the principal, Gr\u00e1inne Conlon, and her board of management have come up with a novel idea. There is no Gaelscoil in east Clare, so they are proposing to the Department of education that the school would reopen in September 2027 as a Gaelscoil. This idea has been warmly received by the Department. Initially, the school would have an intake of junior infant children, and slowly, across the eight years and all age grades, it would transition to be a scoil l\u00e1n-Ghaeilge. This has the backing of the bishop, the patron, the board of management and the community. I have been out to visit the school. We want the Government to sanction and resource the school to make this a success in September 2027."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ryan O'Meara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ryan-O'Meara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ryan O'Meara Gaeilge is a fundamental part of our national identity, heritage and culture, and I think we all want to see it thrive. However, we need to have an honest conversation in this House and this country about how we teach Gaeilge in our schools and whether we are taking the best approach, because I do not believe we are. How is it possible that after 13 or 14 years of education in Gaeilge, a young person can leave secondary school and still not be able to hold a conversation as Gaeilge? Surely we have to look at a new approach, one that looks at communication, confidence and the spoken language, if we are truly to see our national language thrive and survive for many years to come. Will the Government look at how we approach the teaching of Irish in our schools?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Martin","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Martin.D.1989-06-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"The Taoiseach I thank all the Deputies for their comments. In response to Deputy O\u2019Gorman, some schools make facilities available for after-school services. I will talk to the Minister for children and the Minister for education about this. Very often, what happens is that those in the governance of an individual primary school or second level school are paranoid about who minds the school, who looks after the school, who locks up afterwards and things like that, but it increasingly makes absolute sense that we would use existing facilities, sweat the asset and make it available for children and young people in a given area in terms of after-school services. I will speak to both Ministers in respect of that. The idea is a good one and should be advanced. Deputy McGuinness raised the issue of childcare in Waterford in particular. There are three fundamental pillars to childcare: places, affordability and the pay and conditions of those who work in childcare. It would be fair to say that we would not start off from where we are today if we were building a new childcare service. We have made a lot of advances over the last two decades, especially in the last five years, and Deputy O'Gorman had a role in that as a Minister. We will certainly keep an eye on the areas in Dunmore referenced by Deputy McGuinness. Certainly, the costs will come down substantially from September onwards. We are on track to bring it down to \u20ac200 a month, as per the programme for Government commitment. Deputies O'Callaghan and Heneghan raised the issue of Gaelchol\u00e1iste Reachrann. T\u00e1 a fhios agam go bhfuil br\u00fa faoi leith ar an scoil maidir le foirgneamh nua. Is l\u00e9ir gur lorg an Teachta agus na Teachta\u00ed D\u00e1la eile sa D\u00e1ilcheantar \u00e9 seo agus t\u00e1imid ag d\u00e9anamh gach iarracht \u00e9 a thos\u00fa. T\u00e1 an tuarasc\u00e1il istigh anois. Bh\u00ed g\u00e1 ann n\u00edos m\u00f3 ranganna don oideachas speisialta a chur ar f\u00e1il. Is f\u00e1th amh\u00e1in \u00e9 sin don mhoill, is d\u00f3cha. T\u00e1 na Teachta\u00ed Heneghan agus Brabazon agus daoine eile ag tn\u00fath leis seo le fada an l\u00e1 anois. T\u00e1imid s\u00e1sta gach aon taca\u00edocht gur f\u00e9idir linn a thabhairt. Beidh m\u00e9 ag faire ar an gceist agus tiocfaidh m\u00e9 ar ais chucu. Deputy O\u2019Hara referred to permanent teaching contracts. I will check that out. We want to retain primary school teachers. One of the strongest aspects of our education system is the primary system and the quality of our primary school teachers, relative to other countries. Our teacher training colleges, including Hibernia and others, have done a good job in preparing young people for the teaching profession, which is well respected in the country. Secure contracts are a part of retaining that resource and allowing it to thrive. I will check that out with the Minister in respect of the issue of permanent contracts. There are various mechanisms. If someone is a certain time in a particular school, they have to get a contract. I will get some analysis done on that or see what analysis the Department has. Regarding school transport, I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, about the issue in Castlebar that was raised by Deputy Conway-Walsh. People talk about common sense and flexibility, but what is done in one area can create a lot of unintended consequences elsewhere, create a precedent or create challenges. The expenditure on school transport has grown exponentially, particularly for special education. Nearly 50% of the school transport budget is spent on special education, which is fine, but it has grown. We have to make sure that we are fair across different systems. I do not know whether the Deputy has raised this issue with the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan. Perhaps she could send the details to him. I will reference the fact the Deputy raised it. I do not know what stage Riverview Educate Together National School in Greenhills is at. Deputy Murphy did not indicate whether it was beginning or at what stage the additional school accommodation is, whether it is at planning and design or whether it has gone to tender. Deputy Connolly had a very good idea. Traditionally, at the age of 16, people are entitled to be out in the world and so on, which is why school attendance never looked at the post-16 period but, of course, school attendance has changed dramatically in 50 years. It is now, as the Deputy said, a welfare service - the idea being what is in the best interest of the child or the young person. There is merit in what would be a radical change from 16 to 18 years, for example, in terms of school completion. I am mindful that they are reaching the age of majority but we intervene with various programmes, including the leaving certificate applied, further education modules, Youthreach and other mechanisms. The idea of an advisory service for young people to say we note they are not continuing but we think they should and what we think they should do is a very good idea. I will talk to both the Minister for children and the Minister for education. Deputy Crowe always comes up with good ideas. Other Deputies spoke about new schools, like Riverview. We have a plurality of education provision. By that we mean patrons can be different. It could be multi-educational, it could be church denominated, like the Church of Ireland or the Catholic church, or it could be Gaelscoileanna. The problem is that it costs a lot and in some parishes we have four different types of schools all looking for extensions. In some areas, the population is growing while in other areas, it is not. It makes absolute sense if an existing school wants to change from being a conventional bunscoil to a Gaelscoil and that we look at that carefully. I am not sure what impact that has on surrounding schools. That happened in my area a long time ago with Gaelscoil an Teaghlaigh Naofa. It was dying out as a school but it became a Gaelscoil and is now flourishing in an area with high-quality education. It would save a lot of money if the existing school provides a need that is not met at the moment in east Clare, as the Deputy said. I will discuss that with the Minister and come back to him. Deputy O'Meara raised an age-old question. I do not want to get too controversial but many kids who come out of Gaelscoileanna are able to speak the language even if they do not go into a second-level Gaelchol\u00e1iste. That is because they are immersed in all aspects of the language for the whole day. It can be very challenging if you are just doing Gaeilge for so many hours a week and you are doing French, history and other stuff at second level. The initiatives that took place over the past two decades were to change the curriculum to place a greater emphasis on oral communication skills. Communication skills, both oral and written, are up to 60% or 70% of the paper in the leaving certificate. At junior certificate level, there should be more oral communication. I think has moved substantially towards the spoken word and that needs to continue. Is it a question of how we teach it or is it a question of the context, the atmosphere and the environment in a given school? I think that is more the point. This issue will continue. I will converse with those in the know as well. It would be useful to consult Irish-language teachers about what they feel about this. The leaving certificate is much different from the year I did it or from when I taught. The content of the curriculum is much more student-friendly and communication-friendly than it once was. We never have an oral examination in English, which always bothered me. One of the challenges of oral examinations is trying to organise them. All the industrial relations around organising that at Easter time becomes a problem."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Cabinet Committees"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_20","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/98","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/98\/dail\/2","houseCode":"dail","stage":"2","isBillStage":true,"showAs":"Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026: Second Stage (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026: Second Stage","counts":{"speechCount":26,"speakerCount":22},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_20","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Robert Troy) I move: \"That the Bill be now read a Second Time.\" We are here today to begin our consideration of the Finance Bill (No. 2) 2026, which gives legislative effect to the taxation measures announced in budget 2027, along with other necessary changes to our tax code. On 6 October, the Government announced tax policy changes with a total cost of \u20ac1.6 billion. Budget 2027 was framed against a backdrop of significant global uncertainty but underpinned by the continued strength of the Irish economy. With record employment, sustained economic growth and budget surpluses forecast for both this year and next, this Bill strikes a careful balance between supporting people with the cost of living today, investing in our future prosperity and strengthening our public finances for the challenges ahead. The Government has a strong and consistent track record of supporting those most in need when they need it most. The measures contained in this Bill are no different. The Bill provides a package of income tax measures to support households and working people, including increases to standard rate income tax bands, personal tax credits and the USC threshold, alongside an enhanced rent tax credit for 2027 and 2028. It also provides additional supports through childcare services relief, rent-a-room relief, microgeneration income and third level education fees. Together, these measures will help workers and families to retain more of their hard-earned income and ease the day-to-day costs they face. This Bill goes beyond supporting people today. It also puts us in a stronger position to build the Ireland we need for tomorrow, by helping more people onto the property ladder and bringing more homes into use. The Bill enhances the help-to-buy scheme by increasing the maximum relief available to qualifying purchasers, helping more families take the first step towards homeownership. It also expands rent-a-room relief to qualifying auxiliary dwellings, giving homeowners greater flexibility and helping them to make better use of existing housing. Alongside these measures, the Bill introduces further changes to the residential zoned land tax, improving how the tax operates and helping to bring more land forward for housing development. A particularly important measure is the introduction of a new derelict property tax. Dereliction is a scourge on towns and communities across this country. Properties lying empty and falling into disrepair serve neither the people who need homes nor the communities around them. By combining the expertise of local authorities with Revenue's capacity to administer and enforce taxation, this measure will help to bring derelict properties back into use, creating more homes and breathing new life into towns across Ireland. The Bill also takes an important step towards helping Ireland to move from a nation of proud and prudent savers to one where more people can benefit from the opportunities that investment offers. Through the introduction of the new savings and investment account, the public will have access to a simple and accessible way to invest. This will provide people with a new opportunity to build their financial future, while helping to develop a stronger culture of investment in Ireland. Unlike many of our European neighbours, Ireland\u2019s fiscal position remains strong, but we cannot take that strength for granted. Our ability to support people depends on maintaining a strong economy, supporting Irish businesses and ensuring Ireland remains an attractive and competitive place to invest. That is why this Bill introduces a number of measures to encourage investment, reward entrepreneurship and support businesses to grow. It reduces the tax rate on life assurance products, investment funds and certain offshore funds from 38% to 35%, making investment more attractive and supporting long-term savings. It also reduces the capital gains tax rate from 33% to 31% for disposals made from budget day - the first such reduction in many years - to reward entrepreneurship and encourage home-grown businesses to grow and scale. Alongside these changes, the Bill strengthens supports for innovation and enterprise through enhancements to the research and development tax credit, extensions to start-up tax relief and the knowledge development box, and changes to corporation tax rules to reduce uncertainty and administrative burdens. Together, these measures will help to maintain Ireland\u2019s competitiveness, encourage investment and support businesses to create jobs and opportunities across the country. The Bill also recognises the importance of our agricultural sector, with measures to support farm safety, succession and long-term productivity. These include an extension of accelerated capital allowances for farm safety equipment and enhancements to succession farm partnerships, supporting the next generation of farmers and the continued strength of Irish agriculture. I now turn to the contents of the Bill itself, which is substantial, running to 79 sections and 238 pages. Section 2 increases the entry point to the 3% universal social charge, USC, rate from \u20ac28,700 to \u20ac30,300, ensuring lower and middle-income earners benefit from wage growth and minimum wage increases without facing a higher tax burden. Section 3 increases the standard rate income tax bands by \u20ac2,500, raises the personal, employee and earned income tax credits by \u20ac125 and increases the home carer tax credit by \u20ac100. Section 4 increases the rent tax credit by \u20ac150 for 2027 and 2028, from \u20ac1,000 to \u20ac1,150 for individuals and from \u20ac2,000 to \u20ac2,300 for jointly assessed married couples or civil partners. Section 6 enhances tax relief for third level tuition fees by aligning the disregard amount with the student contribution fee rate, effective from the 2026-27 academic year. Section 7 increases the income tax exemption for qualifying childminders under childcare services relief by \u20ac5,000 to \u20ac20,000 and removes the limit on the number of children covered by the scheme. Section 10 extends existing tax provisions for termination payments to cover the full range of modern pension arrangements. Section 11 allows amendments to reporting obligations for benefits under the enhanced reporting requirements. Sections 13, 14 and 15 amend sports donations tax reliefs. Section 13 allows approved fundraising bodies to receive donations for sports capital projects, introduces limits on tax-relieved donations and strengthens reporting. Section 14 makes equivalent changes for donations to national governing bodies, including electronic tax repayment claims. Section 15 brings these donations within the high-income individuals' tax relief restriction, preventing them from reducing taxable income for the purposes of that restriction. Section 16 extends rent-a-room relief to rooms in auxiliary dwellings within the grounds of a principal residence until 31 December 2030. It also increases the annual tax-free limit from \u20ac14,000 to \u20ac16,000 from 1 January 2027 and protects entitlement to principal private residence and mortgage interest relief on the main residence. Section 17 increases the maximum help-to-buy relief for qualifying first-time buyers from \u20ac30,000 to \u20ac35,000. This applies where a purchase contract is entered into, or the first mortgage tranche for a self-build is drawn down, on or after 7 October 2026. Section 20 exempts certain payments under the work and access scheme from tax. Section 21 increases the income tax disregard for microgeneration from \u20ac400 to \u20ac600. Section 22 extends accelerated capital allowances for farm safety and disability-adaptation equipment until 31 December 2029 and adds 12 new qualifying items to the list of eligible equipment. Section 23 increases the annual succession farm partnerships tax credit from \u20ac5,000 to \u20ac10,000 for partnerships registered from 1 January 2027. It also removes the three-year asset-holding requirement before transfer for applications to register made from that date. Section 24 updates tax provisions by changing the benchmark used to define certain preference shares. Section 25 enhances the research and development tax credit by increasing limits on qualifying subcontracted expenditure to third level institutions and unconnected parties, allowing companies to claim 105% of qualifying research and development payroll costs subject to conditions, and increasing the first instalment from \u20ac87,500 to \u20ac105,000. Section 26 establishes the new savings and investment account framework. Irish residents aged 18 years or over may invest up to \u20ac12,000 annually through one account with an approved provider. A \u20ac50,000 tax-free threshold applies, with a 1% annual tax on the average asset value above that threshold. Income, gains and profits within the account are exempt from other taxes, with the provider administering the tax. Section 27 makes consequential amendments across the tax code to support the new regime and disapply certain related taxes and reporting obligations. Section 28 introduces a stand-alone tax regime for Irish-resident investors in investment undertakings held through recognised clearing systems. Section 29 reduces the tax rate on income and gains from life assurance policies, Irish investment funds and equivalent offshore funds from 38% to 35% from 1 January 2027. This applies to domestic and certain foreign life policies, Irish-domiciled funds and equivalent funds in qualifying EU, EEA and OECD jurisdictions. Section 30 extends start-up company relief until the end of 2030. Section 32 extends the knowledge development box, KDB, relief for a further five years, to accounting periods commencing on or before 1 January 2032. From 2027, existing claimants may irrevocably opt out for one accounting period, subject to conditions. It also clarifies the treatment of carried-forward KDB losses. Section 33 simplifies interest relief rules for borrowings used in certain lending and investment activities. Section 34 extends the deadline for certain interest limitation rule elections to two years after the relevant accounting period and makes technical amendments to improve their operation. Section 35 introduces a capital gains tax deferral where an unincorporated approved sporting body transfers its assets to an approved sporting body incorporated as a company limited by guarantee. This applies to bona fide incorporations involving the transfer of all activities. Section 58 provides a related stamp duty exemption, subject to conditions, while section 63 addresses the associated capital acquisitions tax treatment. Section 36 reduces capital gains tax by two percentage points to 31% for asset disposals from 7 October 2026. Section 37 extends the enhanced diesel rebate scheme rates for qualifying road transport operators until 31 December 2026. Section 38 confirms mineral oil tax changes, including deferred carbon tax increases and extended reduced fuel tax rates. Section 39 reduces natural gas carbon tax from 14 October 2026, while section 40 postpones solid fuel carbon tax increases until 1 May 2027, maintaining existing rates until then. Sections 41 and 42 implement budget 2027 changes to tobacco products tax and e-liquid products tax. Sections 43 to 47, inclusive, align the betting duty regime with the Gambling Regulation Act 2024. Sections 48 and 49 amend vehicle registration tax and extend electric vehicle supports for two years. Section 51 implements VAT modernisation measures in line with the EU\u2019s VAT in the digital age directive. Section 52 increases the flat-rate farmer addition from 4.5% to 4.8%. Section 55 introduces a reduced VAT rate for certain livestock respiratory vaccines. Sections 59 and 60 amend the health insurance levy. Section 61 extends the bank levy for another year. Section 64 broadens the capital acquisitions tax exemption for maintenance, support and education payments to qualifying children following a parent\u2019s death. Section 66 increases capital acquisitions tax thresholds by \u20ac20,000 for group A, \u20ac4,000 for group B and \u20ac2,000 for group C, applying to gifts and inheritances from 7 October 2026. Section 69 raises the annual threshold for tax relief on heritage item donations to Irish national collections from \u20ac8 million to \u20ac12 million. Section 71 enhances stock relief for registered farm partnerships, including young, trained farmers, and makes related changes to stamp duty relief for certain farmland leases. Section 72 updates Ireland\u2019s pillar 2 legislation to reflect recent OECD administrative guidelines and agreements. Section 74 amends preliminary corporation tax rules. Section 75 provides another opportunity for landowners whose land appears on the revised residential zoned land tax maps published by 31 January 2027 to seek rezoning by the relevant local authority. It also provides for data sharing between Tailte \u00c9ireann and Revenue. Section 76 introduces a new Part 22C into the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997, establishing the legislative framework for the derelict property tax. While I have not covered every aspect of the Bill, further details are available in the explanatory memorandum published with it. I can confirm that it is currently intended to introduce the following amendments on Committee Stage: measures relating to the reform and modernisation of the professional services withholding tax arising from the joint public consultation earlier this year; amendments to the age-related valuation factors which apply to the standard fund threshold regime; the extension of the employment investment incentive, the start-up capital incentive, the start-up relief for entrepreneurs, and the relief for investment in innovative enterprises, also known as angel investor relief, to align with the general block exemption regulation; and, with regard to the research and development tax credit, the introduction of a new measure to provide that, where a clinical trial is regulated, this fact may be used to satisfy the science test to recognise research and development work undertaken by Irish companies as part of global trials and to reduce administrative burden. It may also prove necessary to introduce further amendments as the Bill progresses. The Bill implements the taxation measures announced in the budget and seeks to support households, enterprises, employment and economic growth. I look forward to working with colleagues in advancing this legislation and I commend the Bill to the House."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty D\u00fairt an Rialtas gur ch\u00e1inaisn\u00e9is d\u2019oibrithe a bh\u00ed ann, ach is a mhalairt at\u00e1 f\u00edor. Anuraidh, n\u00ed bhfuair oibrithe rud ar bith as an ch\u00e1inaisn\u00e9is agus, i mbliana, n\u00edor thug an Rialtas ach na grabh\u00f3ga \u00f3n t\u00e1bla do chuid mh\u00f3r d'oibrithe na t\u00edre seo. N\u00ed bhfuair an chuid is m\u00f3 d\u2019oibrithe ach laghd\u00fa c\u00e1nach ar fi\u00fa \u20ac4 in aghaidh na seachtaine \u00e9 agus g\u00e9arch\u00e9im chostas maireacht\u00e1la ar si\u00fal. D\u00fairt m\u00e9 go bhf\u00e9adfainn hachoimre a dh\u00e9anamh ar an ch\u00e1inaisn\u00e9is i gc\u00faig fhocal \u2013 \"Imithe sula bhfaigheann t\u00fa \u00e9\". Is \u00e9 sin go d\u00edreach an rud at\u00e1 le feice\u00e1il. D;iarr Sinn F\u00e9in ar an Rialtas oibrithe agus teaghlaigh a chur chun cinn agus chun tosaigh sa ch\u00e1inaisn\u00e9is seo. Ina \u00e1it sin, \u00e1fach, d\u2019fh\u00e1g an Rialtas daoine le bill\u00ed agus costais n\u00edos airde agus a thuilleadh br\u00fa orthu. This Bill gives effect to the financial aspects of the budget. It was a budget that laid bare the Government's priorities. The Government called this \"a budget for workers\", but nothing could be further from the truth. Last year, we know that workers were completely abandoned. They got nothing from last year's budget and in this year's budget the Government gave most workers scraps. Most workers got a tax cut that is worth about \u20ac4 per week. Think about that: \u20ac4 per week in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. I have said that the budget could be summed up in five words: \"Gone before you get it\". That is exactly what has happened. Whether it is the little bit back in tax that has been eaten up by the cost of living, renters left handing over more and more of their pay cheques in rent, people on fuel allowance actually getting less this winter than they got last winter, the tiny reduction in the cost of home heating oil that was already wiped out by immediate increases in prices, or people who rely gas being given even less support, it was all eaten up by price increases the very same week. Sinn F\u00e9in called on the Government to put workers and families first in the budget and in the Finance Bill. Instead, the Government left people with higher bills, higher costs and more pressure. Just days before the Government introduced the budget, the T\u00e1naiste stood up in this Chamber and told the Irish people, families and workers out there that \"help is on the way\". He said those words. Workers, families and pensioners waited and the help never came. This Finance Bill confirms what every worker right across the State already knows, which is that Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il look out for those at the very, very top. Where is the proof of that? It is all over this Bill. Workers get \u20ac200 of a tax cut in the year but if you are an investor who made a profit of \u20ac1 million this year, you get a tax cut of \u20ac20,000 in this Bill. Vulture funds are dancing at this Bill. They go on not paying a single penny of tax on the rental income they charge when they rip off young and old renters across this city and elsewhere by charging astronomical rents. Not a single cent of tax are they being asked to pay on this rent despite the Department of Finance saying that loophole could be closed. The renters get a pittance again. There is no doubling of the rent tax credit as we called on the Government to do. Even though the Government knows that we have seen record numbers of people being unable to pay their electricity or gas bills, there is no sign of energy credits being introduced again by this Government. There is also no sign of the windfall tax Sinn F\u00e9in and others are demanding to make sure the very companies that are ripping off those same customers are actually taxed properly. The priorities of this Government are clear for everyone to see. Since the Government announced this budget, I have been contacted by loads of people. I want to recount the words of one person who wrote to me recently and told me her story, because the Finance Bill is not just about numbers or text on a piece of paper. It means something to people's lives. When the Government decides to prioritise the very top over ordinary, decent Irish workers and families, people suffer. Listen to the words of the 60-year-old who reached out to me recently. She works part time and she said: I am 60 ... I live alone. In recent years I had to cancel my home alarm. I had to cancel my ... TV and internet. Last winter I was cold [and] I had to ration my heating to the bare minimum. I ... go to bed early to be warm and I use electric blankets on my couch. Here we go again; another winter to dread. I could stand here until midnight tonight reading to the Minister of State letters that contain stories and testimonies of ordinary, decent people right across this State who feel so let down by the budget and who feel that, once again, the Government is not listening and not delivering the action and leadership that is needed. We in Sinn F\u00e9in told the Government time and again what we needed to see in this Finance Bill. We needed to see real action to get prices down. We needed to see real action on fuel costs. We needed to see energy credits in the form of \u20ac400. We needed to see the Government tackle the vested interests. We needed to see the Government stop allowing banks to make billions of euro in profit and only pay 1% in tax. At the same time that this Bill removes mortgage interest relief from people right across this State, people are now seeing interest rates increase and are finding it more difficult to pay their mortgage costs and the Government will not even extend mortgage interest relief. This Bill goes nowhere near far enough to helping people with crippling energy costs. Section 39 reduces the carbon tax on natural gas by a fraction. People were told that help was on the way. Instead, what has the Government delivered? It has delivered what amounts to as little as \u20ac30 off the annual bill. In the real world, in the very same week, what happened? These same companies jacked up their prices for customers, charging them multiples of what the Government offered people as help. Bord G\u00e1is, SSE Electricity and others - I could go on and on - all pushed up their prices before families saw a cent in support. Let us remember the reality for people across the State. In this State, under Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael one in four people cannot pay their gas bill as we speak. There are 230,000 families across the State in arrears. We would fill Croke Park multiple times with the number of families who cannot pay their electricity bills, yet the Government thinks it is okay to hand out tax cuts to the wealthiest in Irish society while still denying people the support they need in terms of energy credits or taking on the companies which are ripping off those people. The reduction in the price of home heating oil, worth just \u20ac43 for a 1,000 litres fill, was immediately wiped out by rising prices. On budget day, the T\u00e1naiste corrected the reporter in RT\u00c9 when she claimed it was only about \u20ac40 of a benefit. He said, \"No, no, no, it is \u20ac86\". We know that is not true. It is in black and white in section 38 of the finance Bill. The benefit is \u20ac43. Did the T\u00e1naiste genuinely believe his budget offered double the support he thought it did? Did he just not care? Did he take no interest in the real lived experience of any people? We know the \u20ac43 relief does not last long; only a matter of weeks. In December, the Government plans to increase the cost of home heating oil again by reintroducing the NORA levy, increasing the cost of petrol, diesel and green diesel and putting more pressure on workers and families across the State. The reduction of \u20ac43 in home heating oil will only last a couple of weeks and will be reduced to \u20ac23 by the end of December, a 1% cut for families who are struggling to keep their homes warm. The T\u00e1naiste stood where the Minister of State is sitting now and told the Irish public on budget day, \"I want to be very clear there will be no increase in any form of tax either at the pump or in your home during this winter period\". We all know that is not true. Can we all admit in this House that that is not true, because he did not say that Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il will jack up the prices of petrol, diesel and home heating oil come the end of December and make life just a little bit harder for all of those who are just trying to get by? That is the reality. The Government is doing that at a time when people are being charged nearly \u20ac2.20 cent for diesel. If we had a Government that understood where ordinary people were at, the finance Bill would have introduced a further reduction in excise duty on petrol and diesel. The Bill should have completely removed carbon tax from home heating oil. We continue to demand that the Government understands, listens and acts because people are under serious pressure. Section 48 increases VRT. That makes it more expensive for working people to own a car. For many families, a car is not a luxury. The people who sit around and make these decisions have drivers and do not have to pay to put fuel in their cars. They have State cars and are making decisions to make life more difficult by pushing up the price of petrol and increasing the cost of VRT. People in my community and elsewhere need their cars to get to work, drop their kids to school and make a hospital appointment. Petrol is not a luxury for them and the Government keeps finding ways to make driving more expensive. It needs to stop. The Government needs to stop targeting the motorist and rural Ireland and start doing the right thing. Of course we need to incentivise people in terms of climate action but making life harder for people who have no other option and do not have the money lying about is not the right way to go about it. I will go through a lot of detail in the Bill on Committee Stage. It is a 242-page Bill. It set out the parameters of the savings and investment scheme the T\u00e1naiste has been focused on since budget day. I have no objection whatsoever to incentivising people to save for the future but I am concerned that this bears the hallmarks of a policy that was rushed. The fact the finance Bill includes an economic impact assessment shows that it is a case of having the ass before the cart. It is ridiculous. The Government is getting this the wrong way round. Experts and economists have repeatedly warned that a badly designed scheme could undermine the tax base. Any economic assessment has to include the cost to the Exchequer over the medium to long term. The Bill also contains changes to the research and development tax credit for corporations. We have seen substantial changes to this tax area in recent years. There will be changes to capital acquisitions tax. We need to analyse this on Committee Stage in terms of the cost and the fact only 0.3% of the population will benefit from the change to the tax rate in any given year. We also know that 60% of those who benefit from this are concentrated in Dublin. The cut to capital gains tax in section 36 was barely mentioned in the speech on budget day by the finance Minister, yet it removes \u20ac200 million from the tax base over the lifetime of the Government. That is \u20ac1 billion gone. There are tax cuts throughout the budget most people would not have heard about. There is a reduction in investment undertaking tax, the life insurance exit tax and the taxes equivalent on offshore funds. The Commission on Taxation and Welfare was very clear. It recommended moving away from an over-reliance on taxing workers and towards greater taxation on wealth and capital, yet the Government is moving in the opposite direction. The residential zoned land tax is once again being kicked down the road without any real solution. The derelict property tax will not be collected until the middle of 2028. For years, Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il, now backed by the Independents, have failed to tackle land hoarding and dereliction. As a housing crisis deepens, the Government continues to delay. The increase in the renter's tax credit stands out as very small, given that this is the year the Government pushed through the rent tax Bill which allows landlords to jack up rents on tenants across the board. The Government knows well that the \u20ac150 will end up in the pockets of landlords because it refused to ban rent increases. The Government should ban rent increases and double the renter's tax credit to \u20ac2,000, which would give renters real relief. The rent a room relief also seems to be designed to allow people to increase the rents they are charging as much as to incentivise people to enter the scheme. The Minister, Deputy Harris, got it right on help to buy when he said he did not want to increase the scheme because, in his own words, the worst one can do is help somebody trying to buy house is to accidentally push up house prices. He was right but he buckled under pressure from Fianna F\u00e1il and has jacked up the amount involved. Therefore, house prices will increase further. It is shameful that mortgage interest relief was not extended. The Government knows the ECB has increased its rates and is likely to increase them further. People are under serious pressure and that amounts to putting more pressure and costs on households across the board. I will deal with this in detail on Committee Stage. Again, the Government failed the test of the finance Bill. It should have been about putting workers and families first. Instead, the Bill puts bankers, vulture funds, developers and those with significant wealth first, as only Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael do every time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rose Conway-Walsh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Rose-Conway-Walsh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh There were choices to be made in this budget and they are reflected in the finance Bill today. Above all, what is galling is that the Minister of State and Government will say this a budget for workers. Let me tell the House about a few workers I have met since the budget. I will confine my remarks to nurses, healthcare assistants and other workers in Mayo University Hospital. I understand health comes under the appropriation Bill but what the Government could have done in the finance Bill in terms of taxing vulture funds would have resulted in \u20ac335 million. I want the Government to know the problem that a sum of \u20ac335 million taken from vulture funds would mean to the workers the Government purports to stand up for. Today's Connaught Telegraph front page article by Caoimh\u00edn Rowland describes the situation for one cohort of workers in a headline stating, \"Mayo graduate nurses left in limbo over jobs uncertainty\". These are young nurses who have invested in their education and qualified, who got jobs in Mayo University Hospital and who were even told which ward they would be working on and the number of people they would be working with. Since the budget they have been told that has all been put on hold because of the allocation for the health service, which our spokesperson Deputy Cullinane told the Government was not enough for the existing levels of service in the health service. We are therefore left in a situation where there are 85 vacancies in Mayo University Hospital. That is not 85 new jobs, new measures or anything but existing jobs that are not covered because there is a halt on recruitment to fill those posts. Of those, 50 are for nurses and midwives. This budget is purportedly for workers but how can the Government say that when it put the workers who were in that hospital in that situation? I heard all kinds of talk last week about productivity and everything else and I asked several times what productivity the Government is looking for from nurses and healthcare assistants. They are already covering many jobs. One nurse may be covering the jobs of three or four other nurses and the same with healthcare assistants. They cannot be more productive and the Government is sucking the life out of these workers. Many of the workers have been there for decades. They have come through Covid and through the harshest times, including austerity. They came through it when the Minister of State\u2019s party collapsed the economy in 2008 into 2009. Somehow they got through it and held everything together but they have never seen it so bad. I commend them on speaking out and ask them to continue to do so about what is happening in this situation because the consequence of not putting the money from the vulture funds into the hospitals and the care system is that people are left on trolleys and workers are left burned out. I will quote what a person who was in a hospital over the weekend with her mum said: Honestly Rose it's like a War zone , trolleys on every little nook and cranny of A& E. One man was with neighbour. This 93 year old man had dementia. It was so under staffed the neighbour was telling me that he would have put sudo cream on the man's bed sores if he could, there was no privacy. There was only one carer on the A& E for all these people. People helped me move my mum as the trolley was hard on her too. Another poor lady with some type of dementia on her own and clearly limited verbally. Rose these people aren't going to email or complain even though there 10+ hours in A& E were real and horrendous. These are the people who are bearing the burden of the choices the Government made in the budget and that it is making in the Bill."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Pearse Doherty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Pearse-Doherty.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Pearse Doherty Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cian O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cian-O'Callaghan.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cian O'Callaghan The T\u00e1naiste said help was on the way in this budget but who has been helped by the budget and this Bill? It is the asset holders who are getting a tax cut, it is the developers who are getting another top-up and it is the banks that pay virtually no corporation tax despite making billions of euro in profits. They all did well but there is very little in the Bill for struggling families, pensioners, disabled people or the hundreds of thousands of workers who are trying to stay afloat in the cost-of-living crisis. The legislation before us shows the Government\u2019s priorities. I will start with income tax because that is where most workers will fail to feel the budget. The Minister of State\u2019s officials in the Department of Finance examined the impact of this budget\u2019s income tax measures. They described these measures as \"regressive\" and said the tax package \"disproportionately benefits higher-income households\". That is not me or the Social Democrats talking but what the Minister of State\u2019s Department said in its budget documents. According to those documents, people earning between \u20ac30,000 and \u20ac40,000 will get significantly less than those who earn more. People earning between \u20ac30,000 and \u20ac40,000 are paying exorbitant rent, very high childcare fees and the most expensive electricity bills in Europe. How can the Government justify that? So much for helping those who need it most. Those were more hollow words and empty promises. The Government had choices and it has resources. Never has a government had so many resources at its disposal. Unfortunately, the Minister for Finance was more concerned with grabbing headlines than with the State\u2019s financial health. Nowhere is that clear than in section 26, which outlines the new investment scheme. The Department of Finance says the economic impact assessment will only be published in the coming weeks. After the scheme was announced \u2013 not just in the budget because it was announced all year long on multiple occasions \u2013 it was put in this Bill, which beggars belief given the economic analysis has not even been done. There are billions of euro sitting on deposit in Irish bank accounts and any serious government would look at how that money could be used to do something useful. We have put forward proposals on that. Instead, it is being put into a risky scheme without even basic due diligence being done. This Bill follows the same failed housing policy we have seen for the past 15 years, which is to hand taxpayers\u2019 money over to the private sector and hope for the best. Section 4 throws a bit more at the renter\u2019s tax credit and section 17 expands the help to buy scheme. This is more money going to property developers and landlords, and for what? How many affordable homes have been built due to these measures to date? It is zero. How many more will be built due to their continued expansion? It is zero. When supply is short and more money is pumped in to feed demand, prices are pushed up. The Minister of State knows that. It is basic economics. Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il have been trying to subsidise their way out of the housing crisis for well over 15 years. The consequences have been catastrophic. It has led to record homelessness, record rents, record house prices, record numbers of people in their twenties and thirties still living in their childhood bedrooms and a generation locked out of housing. There are now nearly 20,000 derelict homes countrywide in addition to a huge number of vacant homes. They are a blight on communities and a slap in the face for every family searching for a home. Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il have stood over this for years. At last section 76 introduces a derelict property tax but local authorities will not even draw up the registers until 2027 and nobody will pay a cent under these new proposals until 2028. In the first year, it will only apply in towns of 4,000 people or more and it will never apply to derelict properties outside built-up areas of 2,000 people. Thus the derelict house at the end of a village street in rural Ireland is left out altogether, which is unjustifiable. Where is the urgency? Why is this Government so patient with those who let homes rot in the middle of a housing crisis? Fuel prices have hit people very hard this year. What was desperately needed was a targeted energy credit of \u20ac400 for households with an income of up to \u20ac70,000. What was also really needed was investment in the solar for all plan we in the Social Democrats put forward to permanently bring down cost-of-living and energy bills for households on a permanent basis, not just for those who can afford the cost of solar panels upfront but for people and families on lower and middle incomes who could really do with that measure to have a permanent reduction in their household bills. However, that was missing, as was the windfall tax we have put forward but which the Government has voted down that could be used to fund these much-needed measures. Bringing down people\u2019s bills and tackling climate change share the same solutions. That is why we have put forward our solar for all proposals and why we need to have measures that will help us meet our climate targets, avoid massive fines and protect households from this energy shock and this cost-of-living crisis but also from the next energy shock. The Bill raises the tax-free limit on selling solar power back to the grid from \u20ac400 to \u20ac600. That is a welcome step, but it only helps people who can already afford the solar panels. That is the difference between our approach and the Government's. We want to fix things for people on all incomes and not just throw money around. I want to turn to who really does well out of the Bill. The taxpayer bailed out the banks at enormous cost, a cost future generations will still be paying off. Today, those same banks make billions of euro in profits every year. In fact, the sector has never done better, and it still pays virtually no corporation tax. What does section 61 do? It does not increase the bank levy. It does not triple the bank levy like we have advocated. It freezes it for another year despite their eyewatering profits. Tripling the bank levy would have been the best way to ensure that the banks pay their fair share. Is that too much to ask? It would have paid for our solar for all plan, bringing cheap, clean electricity to homes all over the country. Section 12 closes one of the loopholes in the domicile levy. That is welcome. However, the \u20ac200,000 charge is meant to make sure Irish tax exiles pay something towards this country. As the Minister of State well knows, compliance in recent years has been laughable. In 2010, 37 people paid the domicile levy. By 2024 that had fallen to just 13. The money raised has more than halved. The Government has known for years that this levy has been avoided. Proactive government would not stop at one loophole but would carry out a full review of the levy and ensure that all those who benefit from this country pay their fair share. Section 66 raises the inheritance threshold. Section 36 cuts capital gains tax from 33% to 31%. Together, they are going to cost the taxpayer \u20ac234 million in the first full year. That is \u20ac234 million for people who are inheriting wealth and selling assets. This money could have been used to help kick-start a public high-quality and affordable model of childcare that we desperately need. It would be an investment back into communities that would benefit generations of Irish families. Instead, it goes where it is needed least. While the Government found \u20ac234 million in tax cuts for asset holders, communities have been told there is no money. Some of the allocations in this year's budget are simply not enough to run the services that they cover. Overruns are not a risk; they are a certainty. We know this from the way the Minister has budgeted his allocations. They are an absolute certainty. Nothing has been done to ensure the gap between what Departments need and what they have been given is closed. This year, when the Department of Education and Youth's budget overran, the Government's answer was to impose a levy on every other Department. The Minister, Deputy Chambers, has called this \"savings\", \"reform\" and \"efficiencies\". That sounds good in theory. Who could be against it? However, in reality it has meant a cut to services on the ground that are badly needed in our communities. I want to give the Minister of State one example from my constituency. Darndale is a great community with an exceptional level of need. Two applications for funding were recently refused. One was to expand play therapy to schools in the area. When the applications for funding were refused, the Department made it clear that it was not because the applications did not have merit and were not valid and the projects did not need funding but it was due to the levy that was levied on the Department and budgetary constraints. This is a direct result of that levy. It is not an efficiency. The Minister cannot call it that. It is not a reform. It is taking money out of a community and projects that desperately needs them, and that would have been funded in the past up until this levy was imposed. Let us look at what is missing altogether from the Bill. There is no levy on data centres. Despite them pushing our electricity grid to the brink and driving up people's bills, they are not asked to pay 1 cent more. There is no windfall tax on energy companies, despite them making huge unanticipated profits, while over half a million households are in arrears. Why will the Government not ask them to pay their fair share? It is because households are being made to pay. Meanwhile, data centres and energy giants are making millions of euro. That is the choice the Minister and the Government are making. The public are asking where the help is that they were promised in the lead-up to this budget and Bill. We now have the answer. Help is there, just not for the people who really need it, including the income tax package that the Minister's own Department called regressive, the tax cut for people with valuable assets and bigger subsidies that push up house prices for developers. Energy companies, big banks and data centres can all continue to make billions of euro without paying their fair share. The Social Democrats would make different choices. We would target resources at those who need them most, invest in infrastructure, homes and public services that this country is crying out for and fix things instead of throwing money around. This, however, is a Finance Bill for those who need help the least. Our country deserves far better."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rory Hearne This Bill is deeply disappointing from a number of angles. My colleague has just gone through some of them. In particular, what is frustrating about the Bill is what it does not contain and what it should contain. When we look at the scale, in particular, of issues such as child poverty, households in arrears, and families who are literally struggling to cover the basics; elderly people turning off the heat and climbing into the bed in the middle of the afternoon to try to stay warm, what we are seeing at the moment is people really struggling. The Government utterly failed to put in place things that could help them, like we in the Social Democrats had proposed. The Government always goes on about us not having solutions. We put forward a very clear proposal for a targeted energy credit. The Government did not introduce it. Why not? Because it said it was operating within this framework when it could have put in place measures that could be in this Bill right now such as a windfall tax on energy companies, a levy on the banks or a levy on data centres that could fund a second tier of child benefit that it was told by the ESRI could lift tens of thousands of children out of child poverty. What this Bill and the budget show is what the Government is willing to do and what it is not willing to do. It shows the lack of priority for children who are growing up in poverty, many of them in my constituency from Ballymun to Finglas. They are in places across Dublin city and across the country. They are children whose lives have literally been damaged. Their development has been delayed and impacted not because of any other reason than a failure of this economy and society to ensure that they have the basics. It is a failure of the Government. It is incredible that one of the things the Government refused to do - one of the things it could have done - was to put in place a second tier of child benefit, which the evidence shows would radically reduce child poverty. There are measures that could have been brought in to address it in the Bill. I want to specifically address the derelict property tax. The Minister made a big thing of this and said that Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael were going to really tackle the issue of dereliction, but it is more smoke and mirrors. The tax is not coming in until 2028. Why is that? What is the reason for the delay? Why is it not being brought in immediately? Why is the derelict property tax being delayed? There is no logic to that. It is also a fact that fewer derelict buildings and sites are going to be eligible for this tax than the previous local authority derelict property fine it is replacing. That is absolutely scandalous. The Minister is reducing the proportion of buildings that will be subject to the derelict property tax. Rather than tackling dereliction, the Bill will reduce the level of fines. The Government is also setting out that local authorities will remain responsible for identifying the buildings and properties and putting them on the register. We know that one of the most fundamental problems with tackling dereliction has been the failure of local authorities to put buildings and sites on the register. What is going to change? How is the Bill going to change that? Are local authorities suddenly going to start adding loads of buildings and sites that they were not adding previously? We know some of the issues they face. I have come from the housing committee where the issue was being discussed by the local authorities themselves. They say one of the big reasons is they do not know who owns the buildings. They cannot find the owners. Dealing with this requires resourcing and time to chase up issues such as ownership. The local authorities do not have these resources, so there will be no significant increase in the number of derelict buildings that are liable for the tax. This is really problematic. It represents more spin than substance from the Government with regard to tackling the issue. The position gets even worse for local authorities because they will see their funding reduced as a result of the introduction of the derelict sites and buildings tax. In taking this function away from local authorities, the funding is not being ring-fenced to be returned to them. Local authorities will have less money to deal with dereliction after the tax is introduced because it will go to Revenue. We have asked the question and the money will go to Revenue, and it will not be ring-fenced and returned to local authorities. Will the Minister of State set out how local authorities will be properly funded? Will the Government ring-fence the money raised from the derelict sites tax so it goes straight back to local authorities and they can address this issue? Local authorities have raised the big issue that an owner of a derelict property can be served with a fine but then turn around and put a lick of paint on the outside of the building, after which it is no longer deemed derelict. This cannot be tolerated or accepted. We need local authorities to be able to compulsorily purchase these buildings and turn them into homes or put them to community use. It is unfair and disingenuous to say that the Government is tackling dereliction because this tax does not do so and will not do so. Another issue missing from this Finance Bill is a levy on data centres. It is incredible how the Government is rolling over backwards to facilitate data centres. It removed the moratorium on them despite the evidence showing how they guzzle energy and add to household energy costs. Research shows that growing data centre demand added \u20ac715 million to household electricity bills between 2015 and 2023, equivalent to \u20ac360 per household, while more than 300,000 electricity customers are in arrears. Data centres now consume 23% of Ireland's electricity but support just 3,300 direct permanent jobs. They are going to add hundreds of millions of euro more to people's electricity bills. Research by Dr. Se\u00e1n Fearon, Dr. Patrick Bresnihan and Dr. Patrick Brodie at Maynooth University shows that the investment resources directed towards data centre construction between 2019 and 2024 were equivalent to the investment needed to build nearly 50,000 homes. Data centres have been built while we cannot and will not fund and build homes for our young people, who are leaving the country. The Government is putting data centres for billionaire big tech corporations ahead of young people in this country. It is becoming more and more clear that what is going on here is not beneficial for people. These data centres are producing AI slop and will add to household energy costs. It is completely unfair. We need a moratorium and a levy on data centres to ensure our resources go into proper infrastructure development. I want to speak about wealth tax. A wealth tax should have been introduced in the budget. We have massive wealth inequality. There is huge wealth in this country but it is deeply unequally distributed. The Government should have introduced a wealth tax to address this and to enable tackling child poverty and the cost of living. This would have made a difference."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"James Geoghegan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"James-Geoghegan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy James Geoghegan I listened to Deputy Hearne speak about dereliction but I could not understand his position. Do the Social Democrats want Revenue to collect a derelict site tax? He did not spell this out. He spent so much time doing verbal gymnastics with himself that at one point I felt he was arguing against himself with regard to local authorities. He said local authorities were not doing enough to put sites on the register and then gave out to the Government for saying that Revenue should collect the tax that local authorities around the country had lost, in order to fund dealing with dereliction. What is the position? It is a very positive move that the Government has decided to give Revenue the power to collect the taxes on derelict properties. We saw that, once Revenue was given responsibility for collecting the local property tax, the initial challenges with the collection of charges effectively evaporated overnight. We know Revenue is good at one thing and that is collecting taxes. Having Revenue administer this charge of 7% will achieve the exact thing that Deputy Hearne cannot seem to get his mind around. The objective is not to collect tax. We do not want the derelict property tax to be a hugely successful revenue-raising measure for the State. We want it to be used as a stick because the Government has presented many carrots, including the vacant property refurbishment grant, the living city initiative and the other measures that are out there. I would be the first to say, and Deputy Hearne might agree with me, that we can probably do more and be even more ambitious, particularly in the city centre with the city centre task force. It has great ideas for developing over-the-shop living and cost-rental housing on Middle Abbey Street and Frederick Street North. There is also the question of economic viability. Does the living city initiative go far enough as an incentive, for example? Could we go further? Let us not row about the stick. Surely the Social Democrats, and I presume the Labour Party and Sinn F\u00e9in, agree that it is a good idea for Revenue to collect a tax that deals with the question of dereliction as a way of incentivising people who own properties in our cities, towns and villages to activate the properties in their ownership. I understand that, in the Chamber, Members have to criticise and oppose but when good ideas come along, it does not take much to acknowledge that they are good ideas. The measure addresses a challenge that perhaps should have been addressed much sooner, namely, that local authorities were not collecting the tax on sites on the derelict sites register to the level that they should have been. I agree with Deputy Hearne that they have not done enough to put sites on the register, but to simply throw up your hands and say that local authorities cannot be putting sites on the register is, frankly, ridiculous. Local councillors on every local authority throughout the country should be examining how many premises their local authority has put on the register. I know some local authorities have taken a narrow view that investing in personnel to go from door to door to assess whether a property should be on the register is not a good use of resources and that personnel resources should be invested elsewhere. However, this goes to the vitality of villages, towns and cities and to the whole question of social cohesion. In the situation we are in, whereby we are continuing to try to drive up the amount of housing supply we have in the country, nothing is more frustrating for families walking into a village when looking for a home than seeing a boarded-up premises that has remained so for a number of years without being activated. This is a form of vandalism. It may not involve graffiti or smashed windows, but the failure by the people and companies that own these properties in our cities, towns and villages to put them into active use is a form of social vandalism, which becomes even more pronounced when we have housing challenges such as those we have in this country. I commend the introduction of the vacant property tax in the Finance Bill. I also commend the other measures we have introduced, particularly in the previous budget, most of which were extended in this budget, to act as a carrot. When Revenue comes looking, the owners of these properties will know that we are not all about trying to tax them to the hilt; we are trying to encourage those who own a property. They will know that, in a number of months, there will be a deadline by which local authorities must have newly updated registers. Equally, local authorities know that, at national level, we are setting policy. The elected Government, which is the democratic Government of the country, has viewed as an absolute priority the tackling of vacancy and dereliction. We know that the carrots we have introduced, the grants, have borne fruit. For example, more than 7,000 previously vacant and derelict properties have been restored to residential use through the vacant property refurbishment grant, backed by more than \u20ac396 million in grant funding. Almost 20,000 applications have been received and more than 15,000 approvals have been granted since the scheme was launched in 2022. In the third quarter of this year, the scheme maintained its strong performance, supporting the refurbishment of 809 vacant and derelict homes between July and September. My local authority, Dublin City Council, had one of the largest numbers of homes restored under the scheme, bringing 554 homes back into use to date under the grant. The upper floors of buildings, above shop premises, can be an important part of the solution. I already cited the example of the Dublin city task force, which is examining properties on Middle Abbey Street and North Frederick Street. Converting upper floors into homes can increase the number of people living in our towns, villages and city centres and help to support businesses by bringing more residents into the heart of the community. The vacant above-the-shop grant, which offers up to \u20ac135,000 to property owners willing to breathe new life into empty upper floors, continues to gain traction. Some 78 applications have been submitted since the scheme was launched earlier this year. This reflects increasing interest in town-centre living and the reuse of vacant upper-floor space as a means of expanding housing supply. I know it is not within the domain of the Minister of State but we must keep the success of these carrot measures under review in bringing over-the-shop buildings into use. We should be as innovative and ambitious as possible, particularly in supporting the Dublin city task force, in getting people living in our city. Transforming older, complex commercial structures into compliant living spaces is rarely straightforward. Such conversions can be complicated. Owners may need to understand the condition of a building and its design, access, fire-safety, planning and other requirements before deciding whether a project is viable. The expert advice grant is a useful companion measure. To bridge that gap and to ensure projects are viable before major construction starts, the grant, worth up to \u20ac5,000, is specifically earmarked to help property owners cover the cost of professional guidance on the conversion process. It is very important that property owners know about these grants and that they are available, particularly as we approach the introduction of the collection by Revenue of taxes on properties placed on this register. The Government also introduced a targeted top-up of the vacant property refurbishment grant for entire former commercial or public buildings being completely converted fully into multiple homes. Figures show that there are 1,001 derelict properties across Dublin, making up approximately 0.2% of the overall housing stock. Collection of the derelict sites levy is currently the responsibility of local authorities but more than one third of Ireland's local authorities failed to collect a single cent of the levy in 2024, leaving an estimated \u20ac26 million uncollected. The introduction of a derelict property tax will bring more properties back into communities across the country. The finance Bill published by the Department of Finance has outlined the introduction of the new tax at 7% of a property's value. The tax is being introduced on a phased basis. In its first year of operation, the tax will apply in towns and cities recorded as having populations of 4,000 or more. In its second year, it will expand to towns with populations of 2,000 or more. By placing greater responsibility on property owners to address dereliction, the new tax sends a clear message that buildings should not be allowed to deteriorate indefinitely when they could be restored and returned to productive use. Our towns, villages and city centres must be places where people can live. Regenerating neglected buildings can help breathe new life into local streets, protect the character of our communities and create more welcoming environments for residents and visitors alike. This is about making the best use of places that already have a history, identity and community around them. Reusing existing buildings can help retain that character while adapting spaces to meet today's needs. This regeneration must be about more than the appearance of a building. It should help create active streets, support local services and make our communities places where people feel they belong. We also recognise that successful implementation will be essential. Local authorities must be adequately supported to identify derelict properties, maintain accurate registers and ensure the policy is applied fairly and consistently. Ultimately, the success of this measure should be measured by the number of derelict properties brought back into use, the homes made available and the lasting improvements delivered to communities. The need for housing remains our greatest challenge as a country and a society, and every effort should be made to utilise the housing stock available. The housing challenge demands that we use every practical option available to us. Building new homes is essential but so too is bringing suitable vacant and derelict properties back into use. We should not allow buildings to stand empty and deteriorate when they can provide homes, support local businesses or help revitalise our town centres. The new levy outlined in this finance Bill will encourage owners to take action and make use of the buildings we already have."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould I walked around Shandon yesterday where I held my clinic. Shandon is one of the most historic areas in the State. It has the Shandon Bells and the old butter market. The history and culture there are unbelievable. If any other European city had an area like Shandon, with its restaurants and shops, the whole area would be a magnet for tourism. Instead, when I come out of my office, I look up the hill at the old Connie Donovan's pub, which has been a shell of a building for 25 years. Next to it is the old R\u00f3is\u00edn Dubh pub, which has been boarded up for another 20 years. Approximately 20 yd from my office is a building that used to be a family home. It is falling down and has a tree growing out of it. There is also an empty shop that used to have a family living above it. The amount of dereliction and vacancy allowed to occur in an area that should be a diamond in Cork's tourism industry is extraordinary. The area is important not only for the city but also for the county and the State because it is so historic. Instead of promoting the area and tackling dereliction and taking on vacancy, this Government has stated in the finance Bill that it will not start collecting the derelict sites levy until June 2028. I must be honest: the Government must have no shame at all. The Minister, Deputy James Browne, said earlier in the year that he would have a war on dereliction but he is not going to collect the derelict sites levy until June 2028. I have just come from a housing committee meeting. Most local authorities have one derelict sites officer. Most do not have an up-to-date and complete derelict sites register, and no local authority has collected all amounts due for the outstanding derelict sites levies. At the start of the year, the outstanding figure was \u20ac32 million. It will probably be closer to \u20ac40 million by the end of the year. It is not being collected. Instead of having a war on dereliction, Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael are having an amnesty for the vulture funds and speculators that allow these buildings to rot and destroy communities. I think it was the Minister of State, Deputy John Cummins, who said at the time of the budget that the Government had probably implemented too much carrot and not enough stick. What an understatement. The Government has been all carrot and no stick. It is time these people who are destroying our villages, towns and cities were taken to task. Why will the Government not take them to task? When it comes to the derelict sites levy and the vacant homes tax, there is self-assessment. Only a couple of thousand people have self-assessed. The vast majority, tens of thousands of people, have not. Does the Government think that is acceptable? The derelict sites levy and the vacant homes tax are a joke. The thing about it is that it would be funny if it were not so serious. We have tens of thousands of houses, both derelict and vacant, blighting every community in the State, and the Government is doing nothing about it. Why is this? It is because the Government would sooner look after its buddies, the investors and speculators. The Minister of State is nodding his head at me. If he is nodding his head at me, why is the Government not collecting the levy now? Why is the derelict sites levy not being collected? Why is the vacant homes tax self-assessed? I ask the Government to give the Revenue the permission and the decision-making power to take on these people. They are destroying our communities. Does the Minister of State know who is protecting them? It is Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael. They are protecting the people who are destroying our towns, villages and cities. The Minister of State is there nodding but he will not do anything about it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ged Nash","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Gerald-Nash.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ged Nash I am pleased to speak on the Finance (No. 2) Bill on behalf of the Labour Party. On the face of it, Ireland is a country that is doing well. From the outside looking in, though, the headline numbers paint an incomplete picture. As someone who is proud of his country, it would be churlish of me not to recognise some important facts and some progress that has been made. In a few short years, we have gone from jobless rates heading for 20%, going in the wrong direction, to sustained technical full employment, and from the loss of economic sovereignty and public finances torched by populist politics and reckless economic management to the point where we have established savings funds to act as a buffer against future shocks. However, this tells only part of the Potemkin Ireland variation of the story that this Government likes to tell. As someone who has pride in his country and who tries to practise responsible politics, I have an obligation to point out that all is not well. All the outward signs of success mask the real Ireland, where manifest economic success, record Exchequer revenue and all of these achievements still coexist with shameful levels of child poverty and homelessness, and infrastructure levels and standards way below what this rich country should be entitled to expect. We have had 13 years of continuous growth, unparallelled in this State's short history, growth that we hope will be sustained in the future, but with frustratingly little to show for it. Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il have, as I have said time and again, wasted a boom. It used to be the case that having no money was our persistent problem. That was the traditional problem. That was what held this country back over generations. Now, what is holding us back is a lack of vision, ideas and ambition. In fact, money has made this Government lazy. It is always said that you can discern a government's philosophy and agenda from its budget. On the evidence of the budget two weeks ago and this Finance Bill, the only agenda seems to be to double down on the Government's base with cuts to areas like capital gains tax and capital acquisitions tax and the introduction of new savings and investment schemes, which have been soft-launched about 1,029 times by the T\u00e1naiste, in the hope that they just do enough to get back into government after the next election. It is important that, when we are debating the Finance Bill, we take a closer look at the backdrop and the overall health of the public finances. It does look like the economy will continue to grow strongly. Modified domestic demand is likely to be at 3% next year. That is impressive, especially when set against a very uncertain global environment. We can say with a good degree of hope that full employment will be maintained and that wages will grow. Not every European country can say that. That said, the risk is that inflation may come in at close to 4% and could outpace wage growth, and the limited PAYE tax changes proposed in this Bill risk leaving many working people even less well off next year, when taken alongside the massive anticipated hikes in energy bills, the cost of the weekly shop and so many other factors outside of the control of households. Indeed, many of those factors, as the Minister of State will know and as he has said, are outside the control of the current Government, or any other government, for that matter. Talking of risks, and there are risks on the downside, we are duty-bound to keep reminding the Government of the vulnerabilities of the public finances arising year after year from our now notorious reliance on transitory corporation tax receipts. The headline surplus of over \u20ac9 billion masks an underlying deficit of over \u20ac13 billion when the windfall element is stripped out. Not only are we relying on tax revenues from less than a handful of mega foreign direct investment, FDI, firms for half of our business tax haul, but we are also depending on a small number of products and patents from less than a small handful of companies. In short, Ireland is the only place in the world that is getting fat on Mounjaro. I shudder to think what the withdrawal symptoms would be like for public spending and the country's finances if something were to go wrong. We know that half of all corporation tax paid in 2025 was from only three firms. This is the stamp duty of the 2020s. The way in which these moneys landed in the national accounts is, by some measure, less connected to the real economy than even the construction madness of the 2000s was. The risks are clear. The estimate of transitory receipts is \u20ac22.9 billion for 2027. We should think about that. We are funding permanent spending here. We will also end up borrowing by the end of the decade to put money into the savings funds. The Labour Party supports the savings funds and it is the only Opposition party to have done so, but of course we have no real clue where bond yields will be at the end of the decade. This is a risky strategy when borrowing to save. Time and again, the warnings continue to be ignored and, at some point, if we keep going in this direction, the price, like the last time, will be paid not by the supporters of this Government who will benefit from capital gains tax, CGT, and inheritance tax cuts but by the people who do not, namely the people with few assets beyond their own home, if they have a home at all, and who rely on public services and not the private market for health and education services. Those who will benefit will be insulated; they always are. They were the last time and they will be again. The pace of spending growth is higher here than in peer countries but with the underlying balance in deficit. We are paying for increased spending with cash that might not be around in a few years. Rest assured that what I propose is not a prescription to arrest the necessary investment in services we need and that have suffered over many years from underinvestment. Rather, it is a call to diversify and deepen our sources of tax revenue to fund the State we need and to service this economy and rapidly changing society. Classically, any economist will tell you that the time to do this is when the economy is doing well and, when tax revenues are buoyant. That is when you broaden the tax base and make the changes we ought to be making. I wish to say to the T\u00e1naiste in his absence that I was dismayed when he said the following to the Business Post in his post-budget interview with it two weeks ago: \"I don't have any immediate plans to broaden the tax base.\" A comment like that from a Minister for Finance is the height of irresponsibility and recklessness, knowing full well, as he does, the vulnerabilities involved in the public finances in Ireland. It is a sign of the absolute intellectual poverty at the heart of the Irish political system. The fact is that we have a Government that has never met a tax it did not want to introduce, and some in opposition have never met a tax they did not want to cut. I accuse the Government of dishonest budgeting, and I stand over that. We saw it, as others said earlier, with the deliberate underfunding of the education budget last year and the imposition of levies in various Departments this year to pay for that. We see it in the consistent lowballing from Ministers, who will come in here routinely, on a rinse-and-repeat basis, towards the back end of every year and seek Supplementary Estimates to cover their tracks and make up for their mistakes. Those Supplementary Estimates added up to an average of \u20ac2 billion per year over the last few years. That cannot continue. We need to stop the dishonest budgeting and underfunding and be honest and realistic about what it costs to run quality public services in this country. I said in my budget response that it is about time we had an honest debate in this Chamber, or in the people's Parliament, about tax and spending and what these involve. The budget did not represent that honest conversation, debate, discussion or dialogue, and this Bill does not represent it either. When we talk about dishonest budgeting, we should just take a look at the tax package contained in the budget and in this Finance Bill. The full-year cost is not \u20ac1.6 billion but \u20ac2.2 billion if we include, for example, the excise cuts, the carbon cuts and so on that are funded from the surplus. This is the kind of accounting that would make Manchester City blush. What is more, the Government has only managed to raise over \u20ac200 million in additional tax revenue. The idea of extracting \u20ac200 million from the bank levy and a few bob on cigarettes and vapes is hardly novel or revolutionary. Again, it suggests a poverty of thinking at the heart of the Government and a poverty of ambition for this country. As the saying goes, \"I hope it stays well for you\", because there are risks. Those risks are simply not being taken into account. It is beyond time that the Government took the report of the Commission on Taxation and Welfare seriously. The perpetual ghosting of the commission and its recommendations is tantamount to this Government's \"[we] have had enough of experts\" moment. The commission showed that there is a menu of revenue-raising options which would have no impact on the productive enterprise economy, to the tune of about \u20ac13 billion. That menu of options could be implemented to broaden, deepen and widen the tax space to address the vulnerabilities we all know about. The Minister and his colleagues need to take a closer look at those recommendations. It would also be useful, as the Committee on Budgetary Oversight recommended in its pre-budget report, for the Government to finally produce, some four years on, an assessment on the report of the Commission on Taxation and Welfare and identify the areas in that report it is considering implementing and introducing. To date, all the Government has done is ignore it. Just as it ignored the warnings of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council, it ignores the expert Commission on Taxation and Welfare. This is neither sustainable nor responsible. I note the report of both the Department of Finance and the ESRI on a wealth tax. It is a report on which I hope we can have a comprehensive debate in this House. Believe it or not, some four years after the publication of the report of the Commission on Taxation and Welfare, we still have not had a full debate on it in this House. The Government is running away from it. I have been calling for such a debate, and I get the impression that some on this side of the House do not want to have it either. On the subject of broadening the tax base and wealth taxes, the reduction in inheritance tax and CGT in this Bill makes no sense to me. Inheritance tax is the definition of a minority sport. I note the recent comments from Professor Barra Roantree, outlining that just one in ten of us will ever receive an inheritance that will attract the attention of the taxman. The issue of inheritance tax attracts an outsized proportion of media and political attention, mostly from people in this House on the political right. I understand how some people feel about this. I understand it is an issue that is personal to many people. I get that. I am not callous. However, it is not the biggest issue of social equity facing us in this House. It is not the biggest issue of social equity, fairness or economic justice facing anyone in this country, quite frankly. It has to be said that to inherit a sum of money or assets is a privilege in itself, and it should be taxed as such. I am not sure what evidence-based case can be made for the changes proposed in this Bill beyond the thresholds keeping pace with asset inflation. In the end, this is the transfer of close to \u20ac50 million next year from one group of taxpayers to another. This has not received sufficient interrogation. On the CGT changes, I also advise the Minister to proceed with caution. This seems to me to be nothing more than an ideological change. There is no sign in the market of any issues with the selling of assets and so forth. We know that the market is robust, so what behaviour is this proposal trying to change or promote? If there is ever a case for any form of cuts to CGT, there is an arguable one to be made when business activity is low and the Government needs to boost it. This, however, seems to be a sop. There is no evidential basis for it. Looking at this change and the inheritance tax changes, it is fair to say that there is a certain profile of voter who will benefit from this above all else. In fact, there is a certain profile of voter who will benefit from both changes. It is not the people who get up early in the morning \u2013 to use the hackneyed Fine Gael phrase of lore \u2013 but, rather, the people who can afford a bloody good lie-in. These are the people who, proportionally, may have done the best from this month\u2019s budget. They have, once again, found themselves in the winners' enclosure. Turning to the income tax changes proposed in this Bill, we were told by the T\u00e1naiste in the run-up to the budget that we would have a workers' budget, but it was nothing of a sort. I agree with Owen Reidy, general secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, that the budget tax package contained in this Finance Bill was a half-hearted apology for last year's deliberate gaslighting of PAYE workers. The seeds of much of the discontent felt now go back to last year\u2019s notorious decision imposed on this House and the Government by the now T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Finance, Deputy Harris, to lash out over \u20ac700 million to the hospitality sector at the expense of tax adjustments for working people. This was an ill-conceived decision and it will come back to haunt the Government parties. What also fed into this was last April\u2019s protests that closed the country down. We know the Government made the decision to, essentially, sign the cheque for those who brought the country to a standstill while, at the same time, telling public sector workers, whose collective bargaining agreement - the national pay agreement - expired in June, that they and their trade unions, the people who play by the rules, should go to the back of the queue. We know there was an eleventh-hour opportunity represented by the budget to try to shift the dial and make a last-minute effort to try to avoid last Wednesday\u2019s eminently avoidable dispute. Working people, however, took one look at the budget and rightly decided that it was not for them. For nurses on \u20ac50,000, they will have about \u20ac750 more in their purse next year. A clerical officer in Louth County Council who is just starting out will have next to nothing at the rate of pay he or she enjoys. The T\u00e1naiste, with a straight face, tried to tell people that this was a workers' budget against the backdrop of the performative crap from Fine Gael about whether they were going to accept the Low Pay Commission\u2019s recommendation on increases to the national minimum wage next year. We have a Government that has decided to bury the ambition that this country should have for all working people to have a living wage. That is absolutely astonishing. What we should be doing - we will propose this by way of amendments on Committee Stage - is automatically indexing PAYE tax bands and credits to take into account wage inflation, as they do in many other rich countries across the European Union, as well as indexing social welfare rates in order to take those issues off the table every year. Then, at future budgets when we would be debating the finance Bill or the social welfare Bill, it would allow us to discuss real politics and real bread-and-butter issues about how we tax and spend. That is a debate that we cannot seem to have in this country, however. It is extraordinary that the Government has decided not to impose a windfall tax on the supernormal profits of energy companies. We know the template is available. It was used a short number of years ago. The story of this budget will be the absence of the kinds of energy credits that we in the Labour Party have been proposing for the 1.2 million households with incomes of less than \u20ac80,000. If we had the ambition to do it, they could qualify for an energy credit that would help them through what is going to be a difficult winter. That is markedly absent from this budget. It would come at no expense to the Exchequer. Supernormal profits are being posted by the energy companies not through their own genius but, rather, as a result of international circumstances. A case can be made for such a tax. We do not need to wait for the European Commission or anyone else to tell us that we can do it; it is within the power of the T\u00e1naiste. I ask him to reflect on that ahead of Committee Stage of the Finance Bill. In the short period of time remaining, I will draw attention to some of the issues that will undoubtedly arise from the derelict sites tax. I have campaigned for this for years. It is important that the Revenue Commissioners collect the derelict sites tax. We know that local authorities are finding that derelict sites levies are being routinely ignored by those who are captured by it. There are issues in this regard, however. There is a resourcing issue for local authorities. They will require additional staff to be able to manage this. There are also two different definitions of dereliction, one in this Bill and another in the Derelict Sites Act 1990. That must be addressed. We need to find a way to ring-fence the resources that local authorities will be managing as a result of this levy. They get the levy now, while Revenue will be sending the revenue back through the derelict sites tax to central Exchequer funds. A way ought to be found to ensure that the resources collected will go right back to the local authorities. One way of doing that would be, for example, to increase the block grant by the equivalent amount of the derelict sites tax and send that right back to the local authorities. That is an area I hope we can address on Committee Stage. Finally, I will briefly touch on the T\u00e1naiste's savings account scheme. One thing that has not been looked at yet and ought to be looked at on Committee Stage - I would like to hear from the T\u00e1naiste on this - is the issue of annual management charges. If it is the case that some of the same providers who are providing pensions and so on across the country will be charging the same forms of annual management charges, that will cause real difficulty in terms of take-up of the scheme."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathal Crowe I want to speak specifically about home support services, which some people call home help or home care. In budget 2027, \u20ac1.043 billion was allocated to this, which is a very large sum of money. It is up on 2026 and 2025. Indeed, it goes up every single year. This provides for 28.5 million hours of home support, which sounds fantastic. There is plenty of money allocated to it but the reality is that year on year, there are issues. Different Deputies will eventually put down parliamentary questions in 12 months time because a lot of this budget will not get used up. If a family has a loved one coming home from hospital in acute need of support in the home environment, it is nigh on impossible to get someone in the locality who can fulfil those hours. I know of many examples but one that came in last Friday was someone who has been approved for ten hours of home support but can only get 1.5 hours. That person is now questioning whether it was right to come home from hospital in the first place. This happens time and time again. It could be any county but it is particularly felt in rural counties. We just cannot get the workforce. Too often we are accused in government of not pledging enough money to schemes but the opposite is the case here. The money has been pledged but we cannot get the workers. This has consequences for people's quality of life. It can lead to unnecessary stays in nursing homes and to bed blocking because a lot of people feel that they cannot leave the hospital environment because things are not set up at home for them to be supported. An estimated 42,123 acute bed days were lost in the first quarter of this year due to bed blocking, which costs acute hospitals over \u20ac20 million each year. I have written a policy paper on this and have pitched it this evening to colleagues. In the Finance Bill we should be looking at a community care income exemption. Such an exemption exists for people who provide child care. At the moment people can provide child care in their own home and receive an income across a 12-month period of up to \u20ac20,000 without having to pay additional income tax. It is incentivising people who ordinarily need to be available in the morning to do the school drop-off and to be back at the school gates in the afternoon to pick up kids. There are four hours during the day when they could fulfil a working role in their community, but at the moment they are disincentivised from doing so. I am pitching the idea that we bring in an income tax exemption that would cater for them. There are five areas within the remit of the Finance Bill that this could cater for. Again, the template is there already when it comes to child care and I am asking that the same consideration be given to home support. In the context of the Finance Bill, we could first allow qualifying people to earn a tax-free income of \u20ac20,000 from approved care work. Second, we could exempt that income from the USC. Third, we could disregard qualifying earnings when calculating the home carer tax credit. Fourth, we could limit the qualifying work to prescribed care organisations. Fifth, we could introduce annual earnings and working hour limits. What this proposal involves is activating a greater workforce - people who are in the community who can fulfil a role in the community. I am referring here to a certain amount of hours. We are not trying to displace people from full-time employment. We are trying to activate more people. We are trying to ensure that people who need home support and home care in their home can get it. I do not want to be here in 12 months time looking at over \u20ac1 billion of funding not used up because we could not get enough home carers and home support workers to fulfil those hours. It is an idea that I have pitched to the Taoiseach and to colleagues in the Fianna F\u00e1il Party in the last ten or 15 minutes. I hope the Minister and colleagues, as they prepare and work their way through the Finance Bill, can factor for this because we need to be innovative here. We need to activate a workforce that is currently disincentivised from working at all."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Malcolm Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Malcolm-Byrne.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Malcolm Byrne I welcome many of the measures within this Bill, particularly the research and development tax credits. I note that there are provisions here to tighten some of the rules around high net worth individuals making donations, for instance, for sporting purposes. There is an anomaly that exists, almost at the other end of the scale, if somebody chooses to donate a piece of land to a sporting or cultural organisation. If someone donates a piece of land to the State, a local authority, a university or certain charities or cultural organisations, they will be exempt from CGT, but if they donate it to a sporting body or certain other cultural organisations, it will be assessed at the notional market value of the land and subject to CGT. Let us say I have a field that I want to donate for a peppercorn rent to my local soccer club or GAA club. I know of instances of this. If I donate that land, which is valued at \u20ac100,000, I will then be subject to the current rate of CGT of 33%, which is a bill of \u20ac33,000 or the new rate of 31%, which is a bill of \u20ac31,000. This does not incentivise the donation of land for sporting purposes or for certain cultural organisations. If I wanted to donate land to a university for its sports club, for instance, I would not be subject to CGT but if I wanted to donate it to a sports club down the road, I could be subject to CGT. In the context of some of the changes that are happening here around high net worth individuals - I understand why that is being done - I am asking that consideration be given to being able to support community facilities. If an individual within any of our communities wants to make a donation of land, he or she should not be subjected to a financial penalty for doing that. I appreciate that there are rules and restrictions that may be put in place but it is something I have raised previously with the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Finance. I ask that the Minister of State, in his response, would provide clarity as to why the matter is not being considered or if, on Committee Stage, it could be examined in detail. I want to make a final comment in response to Deputy Nash. I do not think there should be any apology from this side of the House for saying that when people work hard, they should be in a position to get some of their taxes returned. If people work hard, they are entitled to be able to choose how to spend their own money. I was disappointed with the budget last year. We did not sufficiently protect workers in terms of the tax reliefs that were given. I was happy that we were able to do some more this year. In the context of future budgets we need to protect low- and middle-income workers further, which means addressing issues around the USC. However, I make no apologies for saying that we need to invest in services but at the same time, we have to ensure that it pays to work and that we reward people who choose to go to work."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"John McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","memberCode":"John-McGuinness.D.1997-06-26","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy John McGuinness To follow on from a point made by Deputy Byrne, the people who have probably worked the hardest and have been ignored by the budget are the people from other generations. They are elderly now. Many are living alone but some are still together as couples. They have been abandoned by a lot of the budgets. They worked hard and they knew what hard work was. They now want from the State some form of recognition in terms of their pensions and other entitlements because they still have a desire to live well and have a decent quality of life. I do not know how many of the elderly and those who are retired actually exist on some of the payments they are in receipt of. The payments have not kept pace with the serious cost-of-living issues that are now faced by those in that category. One might also say that the people who work for themselves, in family-run businesses, have not been looked after well by the State for a long time. It was always the case that this sector, employing almost 1 million people at one stage, would be understood and be given the opportunity to remain in business. Down through the years they would have made an argument around commercial rates having no regard for the profitability of the business and around businesses having to pay the commercial rates continually. The commercial rates system is completely and utterly out of date. No Government has an appetite to deal with it, even though it is cited as the single thing that people in business are absolutely annoyed about. Likewise with insurance costs - be they for transport, households or public liability - the Oireachtas finance committee detailed very strongly in a report the reforms that are needed. However, they did not happen, and all of that work went to one side. It is the same way with energy bills. We can take any business that has closed down in any of the shopping streets throughout our communities and they will tell us the same story, which is a story of neglect of their input into a local community. It is neglect in the Government's understanding of where they are in supporting communities and in creating local employment. That is why more and more of those businesses are closing. We are saying let us have a derelict property tax. That is fine, but we are creating the dereliction ourselves because we are not understanding what is required in a local community and on a local high street. Our answer as a Government is that there are too many of them in it, so we will tax the site itself. That is causing further problems for the business that closed in the first place. It does not make any sense whatsoever. It is similar to the case I made last week for foster carers. They do a massive job for the country at great cost to their own families, yet none of the reforms they identified have been acted upon. There is just lip service. There is no actual acknowledgement. We have the elderly being abandoned, small businesses being abandoned and all of us are talking about the big profits from the big digital companies. Will they be there forever, or will we just take those profits and not support a society that we should have a vision for? If we want the country to be in a certain place and in a certain way then we have to make plans for that and we have to structure our tax regime to reflect what we are trying to achieve. The whole system seems to be top heavy with bureaucracy and red tape and no real appetite to deal with it. The Government has put billions of euro into the different Departments. It should make sure it gets value for money and not be afraid of reform."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Donna McGettigan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Donna-McGettigan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Donna McGettigan Our universities are teetering on a cliff edge, and this Government cannot continue to ignore the warning signs. For years, the Government and its predecessors have presided over chronic underfunding of higher education and as a result of this, institutions are expected to do more for less. Students are paying the price, and our higher education system is being pushed towards breaking point. State funding for students is now 34% lower than it was in 2008. Let us think about that. Student numbers have soared. Operating costs have surged, expectations on our universities have grown and yet funding has failed to keep pace. The Government's response is a paltry \u20ac10 million in additional core funding against a crisis estimated by the Irish Universities Association to exceed \u20ac250 million. That is a drop in the ocean and a failure to acknowledge the magnitude of the problem, never mind address it. In 2022, a commitment was made to provide \u20ac25 million annually towards closing that funding gap. What has happened to that commitment? There seems to be no ambition and none of the investment our students were promised. Resourcefulness, which our universities are having to put up with, cannot substitute for a properly funded system. The student accommodation crisis is one of the biggest barriers facing students, and students are being priced out, forced into long commutes or left wondering if they can afford to attend university at all. Rhe new student accommodation strategy proposes handing public land to private investors while student unions raise serious concerns about this and universities question whether these plans are even feasible without Government funding. Private investors are all about making money. That is what they do, so why should public land be handed over to build student accommodation that may not even be affordable to those who need it? How many more students must struggle before higher education is treated as a public good rather than a budgetary afterthought? It is time to end the broken promises, stop kicking the can down the road and properly fund our universities and our students. Where is the promise of abolishing student fees? Students are now paying more in fees than they were when the promise to abolish fees was first made. Is it any wonder that slogan, \"We have the dearest free education in the world\", resonates with so many? Newly qualified nurses and midwives cannot get contracts. In the mid-west we have a hospital that has few elective surgeries taking place. They do not have the capacity. They do not have the staffing, and this hospital serves more than 400,000 people. Suspending necessary surgeries is not only outrageous but is dangerous. We are spending millions of euro on agency staff yet newly qualified nurses and midwives cannot get contracts. The HSE in the mid-west has not received any additional staff since June. The issue of overcrowding and capacity remains a significant concern for staff and patients. With winter approaching, there is also real concern for patient and staff safety. We are seeing trolley numbers rising and this is an issue that both Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael failed to take any meaningful action on. The people in the mid-west who have lost family members will attest to that. When will we see a lifting of the recruitment cap with proper investment in staff? When will we see the recommendations from the HIQA report, presented more than a year ago, implemented? There seems to be no urgency in this. We do not even have a sexual assault treatment unit in the mid-west because we cannot get staff for it. That is deplorable. The people of north and west Clare are being put at risk because their nearest emergency department is too far from where they live. When will the people of Clare and the mid-west have the health services they depend on and deserve? We need action in the mid-west. We do not need to see another year where patient and staff lives are put at risk."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy I address the question of vacancy and dereliction and the derelict properties tax. This tax has now been pushed out for almost another two years until June 2028. That is much too long and should be shortened during the passage of the legislation. There may of course be a case for a single property owner in difficult circumstances but there is no case to be made for large property owners, some with multiple derelict properties across the country. Such a property is Market Place, Clonmel, which has been largely vacant and derelict for more than ten years. It has been described as a ghost town. Vacancy and dereliction accelerated after the closure of SuperValu in 2016, but it was the subject of a distressed auction as far back as 2012. Big developers and property owners must not be allowed to sit on this property and properties like it a minute longer and it should be subject to the 7% tax immediately on the passing of this legislation. The main streets of all our towns across the country have high vacancy rates. Clonmel is no exception with a vacancy rate of 18.8%, which is above the national average of 14.5% but lower than many other towns of its size across the country. The living city initiative, a tax incentive scheme aimed at refurbishing vacant properties, was originally introduced for Dublin, Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway. The updated scheme introduced in budget 2026 extended that to some larger towns but Clonmel was excluded. I ask the Minister to amend the scheme during the passage of the legislation to include Clonmel. Another scheme aimed at tackling vacancy is the over the shop scheme and that should also be revised. Currently, only individuals can apply for support under this scheme. However, many town centre shops are owned by long established small family companies, effectively micro companies. These small companies are not eligible for support. This change would give the scheme a significant impact on town centres across the country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Richard Boyd Barrett","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Richard-Boyd-Barrett.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett The Bill has dozens of measures to amend the Taxes Consolidation Act, the cumulation of finance Bills for years and years. When we look at it in the round of what this budget has done and how it adds to the existing situation in this country, it primarily consolidates. It is also well-named. What the Taxes Consolidation Act does is consolidate the gross inequality in the distribution of wealth and income in this country. Every year it either consolidates it as it is or worsens the inequality in the distribution of wealth and income. What is in it is one thing. I will talk a little about that, and what is not in it or what it fails to change to address the accumulation of wealth and income inequality that previous Finance Bills have built into the system. Taking this year - maybe following on from Deputy McGettigan as I am on the same committee for further education as her - I will contrast three of the big tax giveaways in the budget: the research and development tax credit extension, which is worth \u20ac118 million, the capital gains tax changes worth \u20ac186 million and the investment in corporate trades tax change which is worth \u20ac58 million. Those three measures are worth \u20ac354 million in total. That will only benefit a tiny group, not ordinary workers but capitalists. These are people who make money by investing the already vast amount they have and then the money makes money. That is, of course, what our tax system does. It reinforces that, allowing people who already have vast amounts of wealth and money to make more money off the vast amount of wealth and money that they have. This will add to that. That figure, if you contrast it, would also fill the gap mentioned by Deputy McGettigan. The funding gap for further and higher education, according to the Association of Irish Universities, is \u20ac360 million. We have seen the amount of investment per student in third level and higher education drop by more than 30%. This is the amount of investment going into the individual students in our further and higher education system who are our future. They are the people who will make better in this country. We have decided to give the money that could close that funding gap to the owners of the tech companies, the investors in corporate trades, and people who have large amounts of commercial property and commercial assets. That is the choice the Government has made - \u20ac360 million to the capitalists or \u20ac360 million to close the gap in further and higher education. I know what I think is the priority and what I think we would find was that of the vast majority of people in this country. If asked which choice they would prefer, we can safely say that most of our students and most of those working in further and higher education and, I suspect, probably most people would say, \"Let us go for funding third level and further education properly\", instead of letting the investment per student collapse to the point it has, which has massively detrimental effects. Forget about us radical socialists or revolutionary socialists who want to turn the system upside down, which, by the way, we do. Even the mainstream economists are worried about our over dependence on foreign direct investment, and that we are vulnerable because of it, because too much of our tax revenue is now reliant on a tiny group of companies who we have decided to give more money too in the previous budget. While I mention the research and development tax credit that would close the funding gap in further and higher education, that \u20ac118 million extra they are getting is on top of the \u20ac976 million they already get annually. It is now over \u20ac1 billion a year in just one tax relief, overwhelmingly going to companies such as Apple, Microsoft, Google and Meta, which I will mention incidentally are also the people who are using what soon will be 30% of our electricity and driving up all our electricity bills. To mention a few of their headline Irish profits, Apple's are \u20ac34 billion; Microsoft, \u20ac47 billion; Google, \u20ac4.5 billion; and Meta, \u20ac2.9 billion, but apparently, they need a tax break. They need even more incentives. We are increasing our reliance on them when what we should be doing is diversifying our economy and developing a sustainable economy that will not be dependent on these people by investing in our students in further and higher education. We are going to give them another tax handout on top of the massive tax handouts they are getting. I will make another couple of comparisons. A total of 10,000 PhD researchers are going to be protesting tomorrow outside the gates of the D\u00e1il. The vast majority of them are on stipends of \u20ac25,000 a year or less, working, teaching and doing research in our third level and higher level institutions for less than the minimum wage. It is shocking, when we think of the obscene salaries of the CEOs of the companies I am talking about. If, however, we were to give them a stipend of the grand total of \u20ac30,000 a year, which is not exactly a lot of money, that would cost \u20ac330 million or approximately the same amount as the Government gave away in tax breaks to the capitalists in the previous budget, those who are already making obscene profits and beneficiaries of massive tax breaks every year. The sheer scale of the tax breaks is unbelievable. Here is another one relief that has built up as well. I submit these questions every year and sometimes the figures of what certain minimum tax measures being imposed on the capitalists might surprise me. Here is one that has been costed by the Parliamentary Budget Office - a financial transaction tax, FTT, which exists in quite a few other countries. Just so people know how minimal it is, an FTT would be a 0.1% tax on the trading in shares and a 0.01% on the trading in derivatives - an infinitesimal tax on those who are not going out to work hard early in the morning but who are benefiting from that fact that they can trade shares and derivatives on their computers because they are already millionaires and multimillionaires making money off money, which, by the way, is not a victimless crime because when these guys' shares go up in value, that money is coming from the workers' pockets. If we put a financial transaction tax of 0.1% on the trading of shares, the Parliamentary Budget Office tells us that would raise \u20ac6.5 billion in extra tax revenue in one year. People should think about that figure in the context of the public sector strikes and the demands workers are making for pay increases. Let us remind ourselves what the workers got in the budget in USC and income tax changes. They got an increase of between 0.5% and maybe 1.5% in their net income. It was miserable, when they have lost, according to the public sector unions, approximately 5%, another 2% or 3% this year because of inflation and not getting a pay agreement, and what they are going to lose in the next year because of projected inflation. To give every single public sector worker in the country 10% to compensate for lost income as a result of the cost-of-living crisis inflation would cost \u20ac3.1 billion or half of an FTT, of that tiny amount on those who speculate in shares and derivatives, so we would have another \u20ac3 billion left over to do something else. Does the House know what we could do with the other \u20ac3 billion? We have also costed that. We could put price controls on petrol, diesel, home heating oil, electricity and gas to bring them back to the levels they were at before the inflation crisis started. Therefore, for a 0.1% tax on the trading of shares by capitalists in this country, we could give every single public sector worker who was on strike last week a 10% pay increase. We could put price controls on electricity, gas, home heating oil, petrol and diesel to address the energy price hikes that are crippling people to the extent that 500,000 people in this country cannot pay their bills and are going to be afraid to turn on the heating this winter. Some elderly people will die as a result because we get higher mortality rates for elderly people due to conditions like hypothermia during the winter. For a little tax on the capitalists who speculate in shares and derivatives, we could solve all of those problems for the hundreds of thousands of workers and vulnerable people being crucified by the companies that the Government has chosen to give the money away to, and, by the way, that are also helping to drive up energy prices in the first place because they are hoovering up all of our electricity. That is the consolidated impact of the various tax changes the Government has made over many years, and which it is building on this year to give away more money to those who already have it in tax breaks on their wealth and their profits. I find it sickening. Regarding the wealth tax that was mentioned, even the ESRI is now talking about this. It is something we have been advocating for for many years. If we put a 2% tax on the wealth that people have from \u20ac3 million up to \u20ac50 million, a 3% tax on wealth between \u20ac50 million and \u20ac1 billion and a 5% tax on wealth over \u20ac1 billion, that would raise \u20ac9 billion. That is multiples of what I have just talked about. Imagine what we could do with that. This is a tax on those who already have vast amounts of wealth. They would not even feel it. However, it would make a huge difference to working people who are struggling to pay their bills and extortionate rents or house prices and to the many young people who are just deciding they cannot afford this and are going to leave. Some 68% of young people are considering leaving the country because it is too expensive. A relatively minimal tax on the wealth of the multimillionaires and billionaires in this country could produce billions of euro that would help resolve so many of the problems we face in our society. Section 481, the film tax credit, is not in the Bill this year. However, I always raise it at this time of the year because there have been successive changes to the section 481 film tax credit. Like all of these tax expenditures, it continues to be a giveaway. They are a sort of shadow budget that is not really talked about because these tax credits were brought in in previous budgets. Estimates vary as to their worth, but the tax expenditures of various kinds given away to various sectors are at least \u20ac20 billion a year, although they are not even talked about. They are just from previous budgets - they are tax loopholes. The one that I have a particular interest in is now worth over \u20ac100 million a year to the film industry in this country. By the way, I want to see investment in the film industry, and I think it is right that our tax system is used to try to support the development of things like the film industry. What I find shocking and unacceptable is that, year in, year out, when it is raised by those who work in film, like actors, performers, directors and the film crew who work behind the cameras, it is said that the tax credit worth \u20ac100 million and various other handouts that come from other areas of public funding to the film industry are supposed to be conditional on the provision of quality employment and training. At a minimum, that should mean things like the application of fixed-term workers legislation or the application of European directives on copyright for the royalties that actors and performers are supposed to derive from their performances but are taken from them - robbed from them, in my opinion - by film producers who are recipients of the tax giveaway in the film tax credit. We give the film tax credit to the film producers, but they refuse to comply with their obligations under that tax credit to provide quality employment and training, the royalties they should be giving to the actors and performers, and the vindication of the rights of the film crew who work on those film productions but never accumulate rights as workers. The Government should do something about that. It should crack the whip. It should stop giving money to people who refuse to comply with the law or vindicate the rights of actors, performers and film crew."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Barry-Ward.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Ward I dt\u00fas b\u00e1ire, cuirim f\u00e1ilte roimh an mBille. Nuair at\u00e1 muid ag f\u00e9achaint ar an mbuis\u00e9ad, c\u00e9 go raibh fadhbanna ann agus go raibh daoine ag gear\u00e1n faoi, is buis\u00e9ad iontach \u00e9. Is buis\u00e9ad den scoth \u00e9. Rinne muid a l\u00e1n ruda\u00ed do mhuintir na h\u00c9ireann sa bhuis\u00e9ad seo. Caithfidh muid f\u00e9achaint air agus a r\u00e1 go soil\u00e9ir go bhfuil s\u00e1robair d\u00e9anta ag an Rialtas, c\u00e9 go bhfuil fadhbanna f\u00f3s ann agus nach bhfuil gach rud d\u00e9anta againn f\u00f3s. Bh\u00ed m\u00e9 ag l\u00e9amh an Bhille, agus is doicim\u00e9ad m\u00f3r at\u00e1 ann. T\u00e1 s\u00e9 ar f\u00e1il i mB\u00e9arla amh\u00e1in, \u00e1fach. Go bhfios dom, n\u00edl aon Bhille airgeadais ar f\u00e1il againn tr\u00ed Ghaeilge. Tuigim \u00e9 sin. B\u2019fh\u00e9idir go mbeidh athr\u00fa ann i rith an phr\u00f3isis agus an Bille seo ag dul tr\u00ed Thithe an Oireachtais. B\u2019fh\u00e9idir go bhfuil obair mh\u00f3r aistri\u00fach\u00e1in i gceist le doicim\u00e9ad chomh m\u00f3r seo. Ag an am c\u00e9anna, \u00e1fach, m\u00e1 fheiceann muid ar an Acht Airgeadais, 2025, n\u00edl aon leagan Gaeilge den Acht sin. Nil na hAchtanna c\u00e9anna \u00f3 2024 n\u00e1 2023 ar f\u00e1il i nGaeilge ach oiread. B\u00edonn muid ag labhairt an t-am ar fad sa Teach seo faoin teanga n\u00e1isi\u00fanta agus \u00e1r dteanga dh\u00fachais agus araile, ach n\u00ed bh\u00edonn na doicim\u00e9id th\u00e1bhachtacha seo ar f\u00e1il tr\u00ed Ghaeilge. Ag tos\u00fa leis an mbuis\u00e9ad agus leis an mBille seo, ba cheart go mbeadh siad ar f\u00e1il tr\u00ed Ghaeilge. Ba cheart go mbeadh an Bille seo agus na hAchtanna a luaigh m\u00e9 ar f\u00e1il do mhuintir na Gaeltachta le l\u00e9amh agus le tuiscint tr\u00ed Ghaeilge. Cuireann s\u00e9 sin d\u00edom\u00e1 orm. T\u00e1 a fhios agam go bhfuil obair ag baint leis ach, ag an am c\u00e9anna, is obair th\u00e1bhachtach \u00ed. Ba cheart d\u00fainn \u00ed a dh\u00e9anamh. B\u00edonn daoine ag obair sna Ranna Rialtais agus i dTithe an Oireachtais a bh\u00edonn in ann an t-aistri\u00fach\u00e1n sin a dh\u00e9anamh. Is cinnte go bhfuil muid in ann \u00e9 a dh\u00e9anamh, agus ba cheart go nd\u00e9anfa\u00ed \u00e9. This is good legislation. It does a lot of good things for people in Ireland, and it takes a step forward. That does not mean it is perfect or not worthy of criticism in some respects, and I want to go through a couple of things. The first point is really a drafting point that I make quite often. This Bill, which is enormous, is largely illegible to ordinary people. If a citizen picks up this Bill, first, he or she cannot read it without reference to myriad other pieces of legislation that went before it. If I can use an example, section 4, which is the rent tax credit section, is entitled \u201cAmendment of section 473B of Principal Act (rent tax credit)\u201d. In order to properly understand what section 4 of this Finance Bill does, we have to first go back to the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 and look at section 473B of that. However, when we go back to section 473B, that in itself is an amendment. Therefore, it is impossible to read the contents of the Finance Bill, or the Finance Act when it becomes that, without reference to significant other pieces of legislation. The point I make all the time is that in 1997, we managed to pass the Taxes Consolidation Act. On that occasion, although I am sure it was a mammoth piece of work, all of the tax legislation came together in one document. A citizen in 1997 who picked up the Taxes Consolidation Act and read it, because they surely had nothing better to do, could actually read and understand what it said. You cannot do that with modern legislation, and it is true of legislation across these Houses that is being passed all the time. If one reads section 4(1), it states: Section 473B of the Principal Act is amended\u2014 (a) in subsection (1), in the definition of \u201cspecified amount\u201d\u2014 (i) in paragraph (a), by the substitution of \u201c\u20ac11,500\u201d for \u201c\u20ac10,000\u201d, and (ii) in paragraph (b), by the substitution of \u201c\u20ac5,750\u201d for \u201c\u20ac5,000\u201d, We know what that means because it is a relatively straightforward section, but actually reading it in isolation, you have no idea what it means. It is a real shame that we cannot get ourselves together in this House to pass consolidated legislation every year because there are only small changes from one Act to the next, and it should be within the capacity of these Houses to change them. There are a couple of things in this Bill that are absolutely worthy of mention. I am broadly in favour of it. I welcome the provisions that it puts in place. One of the things that I had called for a couple of weeks ago was provision to be made for the shingles vaccine to be made available free of charge, particularly for vulnerable people over 65 who are immunocompromised. I welcome the fact that it was announced as part of the budget process that the Bill would make provision for the shingles vaccine, which is incredibly expensive for an individual, to be covered under the scheme. I know that it will start with immunocompromised patients. That is really good. The possibility of contracting shingles is not just incredibly painful and uncomfortable for the patients involved, but will also seriously compromise their ability to live their lives for a period when they are suffering from shingles. I welcome that and the work that was done on that by my colleague, Deputy Colm Burke, in the health committee. HVO, or hydro-treated vegetable oil, is another issue. It is a perfectly adequate substitute for diesel motor oil, the thing that we put in our diesel cars, but it produces 90% less carbon. It does not produce soot, carbon monoxide or nitrous oxides the way diesel does. It is a progressive, sustainable fuel, yet a litre of HVO costs exactly the same as a litre of diesel. I do not understand why we cannot build into this legislation a genuine tax incentive for people who are driving diesel cars to use HVO instead of diesel. It is much better for the air, but it should be better for their pockets as well, and we cannot expect them to do it, and we cannot expect the companies that supply that product to roll it out across the country when there is not the demand for it, when the incentives have not been put in place for it. The last time I put HVO into my car, it was exactly the same price as diesel. Notwithstanding that, I raised this as a Topical Issue in the House previously, and I was told that the carbon tax would be the difference, in that it would not apply to HVO because HVO was a biofuel, yet there it is at the pumps and it is exactly the same price. It is not beyond us to create an incentive for something that we know is good for the environment as well as for vehicles. There is no need for new infrastructure, modification of vehicles or anything like that. Section 17 of the Bill deals with the help to buy scheme. I make the same criticism of how it is drafted. It amends section 477C of the principal Act and is totally illegible in the absence of section 477C and the other amending legislation that brought us to that in the 1997 Act. The help to buy scheme is obviously important and I welcome it. It is capped at \u20ac500,000. I understand why that is, because the purpose of the help to buy scheme is not to provide help for people to buy big, expensive houses around the country. I represent the constituency of D\u00fan Laoghaire. I do not believe there is a family home in my constituency for less than \u20ac500,000. I hear people in this House saying \"pity about you\" and so on, but pity about the young people who were born and grew up in D\u00fan Laoghaire and want to live near their parents and their support networks. The cost of property is keeping them out, yet the help to buy scheme that we put in place to help first-time buyers, particularly all over the country, is not available in D\u00fan Laoghaire. People in D\u00fan Laoghaire cannot use it, and it is a real blind spot here in the legislation that we do not recognise the documented, statistical fact that in certain areas of the country like D\u00fan Laoghaire, property prices are higher. That should be recognised in many ways, but the obvious one is in the help to buy scheme, to acknowledge the fact that we need to put more resources into it in places like D\u00fan Laoghaire than places where property prices are lower. I regret that section 17 makes no provision whatsoever for the people I represent in D\u00fan Laoghaire. It is unfortunate and a missed opportunity. Childcare is important and I welcome that we are introducing the cap of \u20ac550. I welcome the progress that has been made in that respect, bringing it down from over \u20ac700. We are on the way, I hope, to \u20ac200, as promised by multiple parties in this House during the last general election. We need to make more progress but I welcome this particular step along the journey. What about parents in band F centres who do not benefit from this cap? We have a problem in D\u00fan Laoghaire and D\u00fan Laoghaire-Rathdown generally where there are more and more centres - some 25% of childcare providers - that are outside the scheme. We need to support all families, not just families who happen to live near a childcare facility that is within the scheme. We need to look at this very carefully. I have raised this time and again. If we are not designing a scheme that actually works for the childcare providers, we are not going to achieve the promise that we made to the voters of Ireland to provide childcare for them at reasonable rates. I welcome the changes relating to capital acquisitions tax. They are something I have been asking for. It is important and disproportionately affects people in my constituency because of the cost of houses. Often, children whose parents die cannot assume the family home because of the tax burden that comes with it, particularly if they are only children. The increase from \u20ac400,000 to \u20ac420,000 in the group A increase is welcome progress. We were at \u20ac500,000 before the crash. Property prices are back to where they were at that time and above, so let us get back up to where they were then. That is group A, and that ignores the fact that for group B and group C, although there are also increases, there is still significant discrimination against people who do not have children. This is something that other Members here have raised before. I have raised it. There is a gap in the provision if there is to be a discount in capital acquisitions tax for people who are close to the person who has died. That person worked and paid for the property with a taxed income, and if they pass it on to somebody, we recognise that there are times that that is appropriate and we afford a reduction in the case of groups A and B. Although we have changed the threshold for group C, there is discrimination against people who, for whatever reason, do not have children, nieces, nephews or immediate family members to whom they can pass on a property. That is something that we should be looking at in earnest with a view to addressing that disparity in the law. I have been listening to this debate both today and around the time of the budget, and I listened to the talk about consolidating wealth inequality. It is important to recognise that we have what is widely recognised as one of the most progressive taxation systems in Europe. That should not be ignored. It is good. I heard reference to tax breaks for investors who already had vast sums of money. That is to totally and fundamentally misunderstand, for example, the investment scheme that has been put into this budget. It will allow people - not those with vast sums of money, but much smaller investors - to get on the investment ladder and join that community, which is good for them as individuals, but it is limited to \u20ac12,000 per year. It is also good for the country, because we lag way behind Europe in the amount of money that private individuals have invested here, which is therefore money that is actually working for them. That is the misunderstanding in criticising any tax break that might be in it for an investor. What investing is is using your money to actually work for you, whereas Deputy Boyd Barrett appears to think that it is something that is only for the uber-wealthy. That is not true. There is a lot of good here, but there is also a lot more to do, and I hope we will do that next year."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara At a time when households across the State face rising costs, budget 2027 was an opportunity for the Government to prioritise the needs of workers and families over the greed of vested interests. In this budget, the Government could have delivered supports to households who most need it through tax measures that put money directly in their pockets, but instead the Government has chosen to prioritise those on the highest incomes. In the weeks before budget 2027, the T\u00e1naiste was flat-out telling everybody that help was on its way, but the reality is that this turned out to be yet another empty promise. In the Finance Bill, the Government has decided that people on the lowest incomes - over 1.5 million workers - should receive the least out of budget 2027 while the likes of the banks, the vulture funds and the big energy companies remain untouched. These vested interests make extraordinary profits off the backs of ordinary Irish people, yet the Government continues to make sure that they are looked after. This year, the Government has also made sure to look after the CEOs of State companies. This Government has been happy to give CEOs massive pay rises, with the likes of the CEO of Uisce \u00c9ireann getting a \u20ac118,000 pay rise this year alone. However, the Government is now telling low-income workers to be happy with a \u20ac250 increase to their tax credits, which works out at less than \u20ac5 a week, which will be gone before they even get it with the rising cost of everyday essentials. Clearly the Government has its priorities all wrong, but this is the track record of Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael, and budget 2027 is just another chapter in this record. I also want to raise the new derelict property tax that has been announced and that will see collection powers transferred to Revenue. While I welcome this aspect of the legislation, I am extremely concerned that this will only apply to population centres of more than 4,000 people. I have raised here with the T\u00e1naiste on multiple occasions the case of the former Shannon Oaks Hotel in Portumna, County Galway. That hotel has been left in a dangerous, derelict condition for the past 15 years. It is not secured. It is a serious safety hazard. It is attracting antisocial behaviour and it is a real eyesore in that village. As it stands, the planning permission the owners had in place to redevelop it has now run out which means there are no plans to redevelop the hotel as it stands. Under the population requirement rules that have been introduced for the derelict property tax, this hotel would be exempt from that tax. That is an outrageous proposition for people in Portumna. The Government needs to ensure that property owners are penalised and actually held accountable for as long as they allow this building to be left in an appalling and unsafe condition right in the town centre. The local community is fed up with this being allowed to continue indefinitely. We need a derelict property tax with real teeth that is going to tackle property hoarding and incentivise owners to redevelop homes and buildings or, at least, if they are not willing to do that, to move them on to somebody who will. I want to use this opportunity to encourage the Government to engage on this site. The members of Galway County Council have put forward suggestions for acquiring the site to make it safe and to seek out new owners. I ask the Government to examine this and offer any support necessary for the council to deal with this and, hopefully, find a suitable person to redevelop the hotel."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins As Deputy Ward said, I think this budget may have been a missed opportunity. To me, it was a missed opportunity. To Independent Ireland, it was a missed opportunity. We put forward many positions that were different from what would be the usual rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul type of budget, and they were not listened to. It could have been a bold budget that looked after young families and was mainly concerned with young people who are thinking of leaving the country. They are leaving in droves out of this country as we speak. Some 68% of them are talking about leaving. It is hard to blame them because they know in a few years' time, following this budget, they will not have a home. They will not be able to afford a home and will not be able to afford to stay here. Obviously, the details of the budget will come out as we go on. I have concerns that perhaps the Minister of State will be able to clarify. In relation to respite, we had a protest for adults with intellectual disabilities, where a couple of hundred people walked the streets of Bantry on Sunday, fighting for what I see as the basic human right that is respite. Protests took place in Bantry and Skibbereen in west Cork. The funding is not factored into the budget. Funding for staffing is not factored in there. It is not being delivered and these people are suffering. I have told them I have raised this issue in D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann and I will continue to raise it on a more frequent basis. We need to understand that people with intellectual disability are treated appallingly in this country, whether it is in relation to respite or in relation to transport, because they are left at home. They have no voice bar their parents, and their parents are burnt out from being loving and caring carers who have not been looked after by this Government that promised it would deliver a non-means-tested carers payment in the budget. That has not happened again this year. The Government is raising the bands, and I accept that, but it is not good enough. Just because the husband might have two or three extra cows that takes him across the means threshold and they cannot get carer's allowance. They are at home minding a loved one and they still cannot get this funding. The same is true of housing. If you have an intellectual disability, you are left behind in this country when it comes to housing. You have to fight for everything. That is why the Before We Die campaign was set up by a lot of families of people with intellectual disabilities. It puts extra pressure on them. They are delivering the care service and they are now trying to deliver the service that the Government should have delivered for them and that has not happened. I want to move on to the budget and how it relates to stem cell treatment. There is \u20ac27 million needed for a stem cell unit in Cork University Hospital, and I am not sure whether that is factored into the budget this year. It is very important. There was a big get-together in the audiovisual room recently. I am calling on the Minister for Health to outline where her budget is going to be spent. It cannot always go into the children's hospital here in Dublin. There has to be more spent equally around Ireland, so the rest of the country gets benefits. A campaign for a stem cell unit has been fronted by Mags McCarthy and many more who are desperately trying to get it across the line. It is available in Dublin and Galway, and rightly so, but it should also be available in the south and south-west. We need it in Cork University Hospital, and I would like to know if that is in the budget. The Minister of State might let us know about that. We know the Government gave Uisce \u00c9ireann's CEO \u20ac118,000. We are well aware of that nice little pat on the back for God only knows, because I do not know. He is not accountable to anybody in here, bar maybe one or two Ministers, but he certainly is not accountable to the TDs here. We are contacting Uisce \u00c9ireann in relation to issues such as the one in Ballydehob, where there is stinking sewage going into the tide, and at Goleen, Rosscarbery and Shannonvale, and we get nothing. We get no response. It is a disgraceful carry-on, and then the Government rewards somebody for that instead of making them accountable and seeing that they deliver. What about the roads budget in west Cork? It has been absolutely starved of funding for passing bays and for bypasses at Innishannon, Bantry and Bandon. All these are proposed bypasses over the last 20 years and there is no tar laid on the ground. There are plenty of plans. Every year there are a couple of million euro thrown into a plan to top up the other plan. Are there passing bays provided for in the budget? Is there a budget for west Cork other than walkways, cycleways and greenways, which people are not looking for? The majority of people do not want them going through their farm, but they do want proper roadways so they can pass vehicles coming and going in a natural, fair and safe manner, and not have a situation where they are holding onto their steering wheel going into potholes left, right and centre on main arteries going into Cork like the N71. What about the fishing industry? What is in the budget for the fishing industry? I know we spoke about the farming industry, but the fishing industry is on its knees. Is there a budget set aside for the people who lost their quota? They have not been able to go out fishing for the last six or 12 months in some cases. They have huge trawlers. Those smaller fishermen should be looked after in the budget. We would like to know all that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ken O'Flynn I was watching the debate from my office on the monitors. It was interesting to listen to the contribution from Deputy Boyd Barrett, in particular about Apple, which is in my constituency and employs over 6,500 people. He mentioned EMC in Ballincollig, which is also in my constituency. He mentioned Dairygold and a number of companies that operate in Little Island. Again, they are all big employers that operate in my constituency. To listen to him vilifying international companies, there are times when I am in the Chamber that I often think of people buying tickets to the Gaiety Theatre who could come to sit in the Visitors Gallery and have the entertainment for free. What went on over there in the socialist party and their grouping was nothing short of a pantomime performance. To say that we do not need these companies such as Apple, employing 6,500 people, or EMC, ignores the sheer number of people dependent on those businesses. There are 200,000 jobs in this country from foreign direct investment alone and there are an additional 150,000 jobs that come with them. Does Deputy Boyd Barrett ever worry or think about the fact that the guy who works in Apple, who is my constituent, comes back and buys his coffee in Cork North-Central, buys his shopping in the local shop, goes out and has his few pints on a Friday night in the local pub and spends his money locally in the economy? Deputy Boyd Barrett talks with great ambition about encompassing diversity and the rest of it on a regular basis in this House, but he forgets about the fact that 95 languages are spoken in Apple every day on the northside of Cork city. That is something I am immensely proud of. I am immensely proud of the foreign direct investment we have been able to attract into Cork North-Central, and of the hard work done by various TDs over the years to get that investment. They talk about these big companies and the profits they are making but forget about the number of Irish people they are employing and the number of businesses that are dependent on those foreign direct investment companies. We should not be letting people get away with that, because it is a pantomime. There are things I want to welcome in the budget. One, which was mentioned earlier, is the shingles vaccine. That is very welcome. I remember on one of my first days in this House I mentioned that in a Leaders' Question, and I am delighted to see that somebody listened to me on that side of the House. Every now and again I have a good idea. Maybe the Government might take on a few more of them over the next couple of weeks. I am disappointed we have not moved more quickly on GLP-1 medication. It is vitally important. As we look to the next 20 years and what we are spending in this country on medication for diabetes, and on preventative measures for heart disease and the rest of it, we are missing a beat. We are not looking to the next generation. If we made GLP-1 medication more readily available and much cheaper to the general public, we would be looking at a far healthier Ireland in the next 20 years. I ask the Minister of State to consider that in the coming budgets. I will call out the good things and I will call out the bad things, which I think is being fair with the Minister for State. There are parts of this budget which giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other. There are plans for excise cuts but they only last until 28 February 2027 and after that they come back in, in stages, in February, April, May, and October 2027. We will see an increase in the price of petrol from 50 cent to 74 cent. We will see an increase in diesel from 37 cent to 60 cent per litre by October 2027. The reality for commuters who live in my constituency and in the Minister of State's constituency and use an average of 1,200 litres per year is they will be paying an extra \u20ac420 for petrol and diesel. That is the average. I want to touch on something else that was said in this House regarding the 7% of market value going to Revenue when it comes to derelict properties. I have been banging the drum about derelict properties for the past 18 years when I was on Cork City Council and I welcome this, but I have questions around it. How is the local authority going to take it on? Will moneys be provided to each local authority to employ staff who will be dedicated to the collection of those moneys for derelict properties? I have concerns about the 4,000 plus and we should look at that as well."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Peadar-T\u00f3ib\u00edn.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Peadar T\u00f3ib\u00edn This Finance Bill is another example of a Government living in a bubble. The Ministers do not stay awake during the night wondering what bills they can afford to pay this year. This Finance Bill is another ignorant example of ignoring the lives of real people in Ireland. I would like to introduce the Minister of State to some real citizens and I will read out some of the letters that have been sent to me since the budget: Hi Peadar, I have seen you many times sticking up for the ordinary people and I would like to give you another insight into a young family in 2026. My partner and I have two children on earth. One is four and the other is a newborn child. I recently lost two children to stillbirth and miscarriage. I am on maternity and as such I am trying to give my body some time to recover after years of pregnancy. We do not own a home. We got evicted last year from our rented accommodation, after we lost our child through stillbirth, due to the landlord selling it. We moved into a relation's abandoned house which has no insulation, thick cavity walls and only has had its first kerosene boiler fitted after we moved in. Without kerosene, there is no hot water. We have to buy a drum on a weekly basis just to wash the dishes, which costs us \u20ac50 per drum and it lasts for only a few days. A 300 litre buy of kerosene lasts for a few weeks but our house is still cold and I cannot afford to fill it, even after the fuel payment. The roof needs to be fixed and every room needs replacing. It would cost up to \u20ac200,000 to do so. We can't get a mortgage, we can't get grants because we don't own the house, and we can't get loans because I was bitten during the recession by college loans, which never amounted to a job. Our generation has no hope. My daughter realises we have nothing; not even proper floors in some rooms. The owner of the house wants more rent money but we cannot afford it. We live week to week buying groceries and clothes for the children. I do not eat because it costs so much. I drink coffee. I have yogurts and maybe a dinner every day. I closed my seven-year hair business because there was no cr\u00e8che place for my daughter and I will not be able to return until God knows how long. For now, we live on little money, running out every week in a house that is falling apart, full of mould. I am 40 soon. My partner is 38. Sometimes I can't tell if I'm so stressed or that I've ended up with postnatal depression, trying to survive. I love my children but it's hard to be able to look after them properly. Trying to keep a newborn warm, clean and fed is hard in 2026. We have been failed by this Government. We did not cause the recession. We are victims to it and we will be paying the price until we retire. Neither of us have careers that will last until retirement. I dread the future for the children of this country. I believe that the Government should put the shoe on the other foot and see how it is for us to live, to see if they could live on social welfare or the minimum wage. It would boost the RT\u00c9 ratings at least. I understand the money has to come from somewhere but while the Government squanders money other people like us would do great things with it. Please don't mention my name. This is not from the 19th century. This is Ireland under this Government. This is an Irish citizen today. I will read out correspondence from another individual. I write this email from my bedroom in my parents' home which I share with my two children. Do I work? Yes, I work for the public sector. We are one of those forgotten families of Ireland. I get up at 5 a.m. in the morning to go to work and I am lucky if I get back at 9 p.m. I work hard in the public sector and have two amazing children. I fall into the category of being too rich for social housing and too poor to have a mortgage. Did I mention that my child has autism, which I pay privately for therapies because the Government cannot provide this and does not provide therapies for my child. A family can earn \u20ac2,300, get carer's allowance, working family payment and the one parent family payment but I can't because I have to work, because I have to afford the therapies for my child and just to survive the cost-of-living crisis. I do not have the luxury of not working. It is an absolute insult to call this budget one for the working families. I heard from another family: I am a 31-year-old homeowner from County Meath, a father of one, soon to be married and I work in the public service. I write to you because I want to express my genuine frustration with the current tax system and the financial pressure being placed on ordinary, hard-working people in this country. Every morning, I leave my house at approximately 5.30 a.m. and travel to the Dublin area, often arriving between 7 a.m. and 8 a.m., depending on the traffic. My journey involves going from Meath towards Dundrum and then onto Clondalkin. Along the way I pass through three tolls: two at \u20ac2.70 and one on the M50 which I understand is approximately \u20ac4.90 for my vehicle. That means I am paying up to \u20ac51 a week on tolls. I do not take the tolls on the way home because I simply can't afford them, but if forces me to drive further which means I am burning more diesel. I accept that working comes with expenses and I understand that taxation is necessary to fund public services. However, increasingly I feel that people who get up early in the morning, who work hard and try to provide for their families are being squeezed in every single direction. This budget confirms the squeeze of middle-income earners. Many people with two incomes coming into the family home are unable to make ends meet because on one side, the Government is engineering a cost-of-living crisis by overtaxing energy. Today, the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, put \u20ac41 extra on electricity."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty Looking at the Second Stage of this Finance (No. 2) Bill, anyone with a smidgeon of social conscience and even a basic understanding of fiscal prudence would say that we are going about things the wrong way. We are considered to be in full employment but the core strategy of this Bill, as I said in previous contributions, is to inject lots of euros into stimulating demand, when we have a choice to actually take on board the repeated warnings of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council. By pushing ahead with what I would call untargeted tax cuts and short-term similarly untargeted cash boosts, this budget is giving with one hand but inflation will take it back with the other. I suggest that even allowing for the absolute need to give a dig-out to those impacted by fuel increases and price hikes, the real fiscal responsibility at a time when we do have some revenues to spare and we have to help people means acknowledging the bottlenecks in the system. The greatest threat to the cost of living for ordinary families is not necessarily tinkering with the tax bands and saying here is a few extra quid for them, but by tackling the structural deficits in our public infrastructure. Otherwise, we are reusing this term \"voodoo economics\" coined back in the day during Reagan's time because if a marginal increase in workers' take-home pay is given, from a tax perspective, it is wiped out instantly if they have to pay for private childcare, private healthcare, private assessments of need and private grinds, all because our public services are understaffed and, in many cases, overwhelmed. We are talking about childcare. People have no choice but to drive and pay high fuel prices because they cannot suddenly switch to an EV if they have a petrol or diesel car, and that is if they have a car. Others will have to get a taxi because in many cases no decent public transport is available. Instead of giving general money to spend, our funding should be used to build long-term economic resilience through services. As I have mentioned before, in the medium term we have to guard against data centre progression using so much of our capacity, which increases our reliance on gas and pushes up the price even as renewables increase. I have mentioned the significant investment needed to upgrade our grid and be energy self-sufficient and a net exporter, something which has huge revenue potential. That is a multi-annual project and we need to get moving on it now, using windfall receipts, borrowing strategically and partnering to increase capacity and cut costs. We need to focus on the annual budget side. Specifically, we have to invest directly in the permanent recruitment of critical front-line staff, most notably teachers, garda\u00ed, social workers, occupational therapists and bus drivers. When a school has enough teachers to function and a hospital has enough nurses to clear its waiting lists, we lower the structural cost of living in a sustainable manner. Instead, we are adding to costs by failing to keep our homegrown staff. They are going abroad. Nurses, for example, are going abroad because they are not offered permanent posts. We are leveraging expensive agency services. When our best and brightest emigrate, we import staff to do the same work but increase our costs overall due to strains on housing and education through family reunification, etc. It is a regressive strategy. We should instead provide upfront investment in our own people and protect our public servants by index-linking pay rather than relying on cute hoor budgetary adjustments that look good on paper but add to inflation. We have to protect services and our front-line workers and keep our costs down. That is what should be done."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Se\u00e1n Kyne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Se\u00e1n-Kyne.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne I welcome the Minister of State and congratulate the Minister, Simon Harris, on his first budget presentation to the House. Last year, we emphasised that we were taking care of and trying to support businesses, and rightly so. A permanent change took place. There was a debate here on the reduction in VAT for hospitality and other areas. This year, the emphasis is clearly on trying to help workers and families by giving them back more of their money. The increase in the threshold is important and welcome. Over the coming budgets, we need to move towards a \u20ac15,000 threshold for people to hit the higher rate of tax. As I always say, if we do not increase the thresholds regularly, more and more people will pay the higher rate of tax. If we do not increase them at all, eventually the majority of people will, year on year, pay the higher rate of tax. That needs to be acknowledged. I have heard people use the term \"tinkering around\". I do not believe that is fair. It is about increasing the thresholds to allow people to keep more of their money so that they can spend it on themselves and their families and pay for some additional costs in the economy at present because of the goings-on in the Strait of Hormuz and decisions elsewhere. We have tried to respond to the challenges elsewhere as part of this budget. We have also accepted the increase in the minimum wage. It is fair for those workers on the lowest level to get assistance. It is a cost to business, and we should not pretend it is not. As I always say, you cannot have employees without employers and you cannot have employers without employees. They go hand in hand. It is right that where we give on the one hand in terms of assistance to low-paid workers through increases in the minimum wage, we also consider support for businesses. That was done through the change to PRSI. The budget thresholds were important. There is an increase in the higher rate income tax threshold to \u20ac46,500 from \u20ac44,000 and an increase in the main tax credits by \u20ac125, saving the average worker \u20ac750 and a couple \u20ac1,500 per year. That is important and should be welcomed. As I said, I hope to see progression on that in the coming budgets. I want to talk about section 17 of the Bill, the help to buy scheme. It gives a refund of income tax and DIRT that people have paid in this country for the previous four years. The maximum people can claim under the scheme increased from \u20ac30,000 to \u20ac35,000 in the budget, and applies from 7 October 2026. It relates to people who sign a contract for a new house between 7 October 2026 and 31 October 2029 or draw down on a self-build mortgage between 7 October 2026 and 31 December 2029. This is hugely important assistance that has been provided by the Government and needs to be acknowledged. In Galway, to the third quarter of this year, some 3,316 individuals and families have benefited, with claims totalling \u20ac77.3 million. That demonstrates the benefits of the scheme and the value it has in supporting families who are trying to buy or build their first home. I want to touch on section 75, the residential zoned land, RZL, tax. I have heard anecdotally that it is working in forcing certain parcels of land to be put on the market or developed. That is the intent of the scheme. In his budget speech this year, the Minister stated he is now providing another opportunity for landowners in 2027 whereby if they seek to have their land rezoned to reflect the genuine economic activity being carried out, an exemption will be considered by local authorities. Again, there is some confusion because people have gone through processes to get their land rezoned and have been unable to do so. Do they now have another opportunity to do so or does the provision relate to additional zonings? Perhaps we could get some clarity on that. It is causing a certain amount of stress. I know of individuals affected by this, one of whom is in his late 80s. He is not worried about what happens after he is gone because that will not bother him, but he has a great love for a small piece of land that is zoned. People are facing difficulties and I know the importance of land. The State has invested in servicing land with water and sewerage and, therefore, parcels of land have to be built on. That is what the scheme is trying to address. There is some confusion about the announcement of another opportunity in 2027. Does that relate to the same people or different people? Section 76 deals with the derelict property tax. Again, I welcome the initiative because we have had the carrot approach and the stick approach, and the carrot has worked in terms of the cro\u00ed c\u00f3naithe scheme and above-the-shop grants have benefited. It is not necessarily about collecting money. Rather, it is about bringing properties back into use as homes, turning bigger properties into apartments and making use of other buildings. We all want more homes built and more people living in properties. Local authorities have faced challenges in collecting that money. The move will see the Revenue Commissioners given such powers. Most people accept a letter from Revenue as a stronger threat or stick than a letter from a local authority. It is hoped the change will get some parcels moving, not necessarily in terms of collecting tax but encouraging people to avail of grants and get properties back to life or incentivising individuals to sell properties to realise some capital and allow others to develop them. In a recent meeting with the city manager and officials, one issue raised was the fact that Revenue, as it stands, will keep the moneys collected, and whether that should remain the case. Local authorities would like that money to be reimbursed to them to assist in the administration of the scheme and for their work and the services they provide. Is the policy in the Finance Bill set in stone? Perhaps it is something we could reflect on over the next period of time. Local authorities have been blamed and some have been better than others. If the tax could be retained locally, that would be of benefit. I refer to supporting older people and the new cost-of-disability payment of \u20ac500. We all know the additional costs that families of children with disabilities have. I welcome the payment and also that we have taken another step on the carer's allowance income disregard. Again, this was a commitment I think all parties made before the previous election. We moved substantially last year and there has been another increase in this budget, meaning the disregard is now \u20ac1,150 for single people and \u20ac2,300 for a couple. I also welcome the increase in the renter's tax credit to \u20ac1,150 for single people and \u20ac2,300 for couples. Another area that is hugely important and linked to the growing economy is capital investment. While construction inflation has impacted the value of that investment, we need to continue to invest in infrastructure for our growing economy. I welcome the commitment to the Galway city ring road. It is at the stage where the judicial review appeal will be held next month. There were four applicants to that review and three have been withdrawn and have been sorted. I hope for a speedy decision on the remaining one before the end of the year and that we can get that project moving. We have been talking about it for nearly two decades in various guises. It has had its ups and downs, refusals, quashings and everything else, but it was finally granted and we are now coming to the end of the judicial review process. I hope, with a continued strong economy, we can look at projects like this. This is obviously about making Galway a more attractive place to invest, especially in the west of the city, and also improving the quality of life of people in the city and Connemara as well. Public transport is another area that is continually raised. Strangely, though intuitively it makes sense, the more you invest in bus routes and frequency, the more demand grows because it is a more reliable and better service. As demand grows, you have to invest in capacity, which is a challenge we are experiencing. We see it with the 424 route and Barna, on which, fortunately, there is good news coming. We need to see continued investment in commuter areas in and around Galway city, for example, the 419 service to Moycullen, Oughterard and Clifden. There are new bus shelters in Moycullen, where there is a growing population, and in the last seven or eight years there has been increased frequency. We need to see even greater frequency and more capacity, so we do not have full buses passing people by. A strong economy is not just about the big projects, but also the day-to-day issues that improve people's lives. Fortunately, we are in a better position and we can now look at these projects and continue to invest in them. I am particularly worried about energy costs. Kerosene has been a big issue for rural Ireland. We have done a bit. I am not sure we have done enough. Time will tell. If we get a particularly hard winter, the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS. will have to revisited in some guise. I advocated for an increase in the living alone allowance, which increased for the first time in five years. It would have been nice to see a slightly larger increase because filling a tank of oil costs a couple the same as it does a single person, widow or widower who must bear it on one income instead of two. This is a concern and I had hoped for a lump sum or a greater increase in the living alone allowance, although I certainly welcome the first increase in about five years."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae While the Finance Bill is being praised by the Government, along with the tax cuts made in the budget, and we heard statements that the budget was for those who get up early in the morning, the truth is that the working person is still struggling to make ends meet. Many minimum wage workers are telling me they would be better off staying at home as they would qualify for the medical card, free travel, fuel allowance, supplementary welfare payments and a social house. While the carbon tax applied to kerosene home heating oil and natural gas has been reduced to \u20ac48.50 and paused at this rate, it should be removed completely as many people are struggling to keep up with the payments for heating their homes. The Government should not be profiting from the increases in cost. I made clear previously that the Government was able to manage with the amount of tax it was collecting before the cost went up, so it should still be able to manage with that. It also needs to be highlighted that while the tax has been reduced on natural gas, the same reduction has not been extended to liquid gas. There is no reduction for the fellas who are buying tanks of gas at \u20ac50 a go, and a lot more for the bigger ones. That is very unfair. While the farmers' fuel relief scheme is being extended, it is only for those who qualified in the summer. Surely it should be available to all those who would be entitled to it, if it were not for this clause that is preventing that. Action on green diesel for construction vehicles was promised back in May by the Taoiseach and T\u00e1naiste but nothing has been done since. Words do not mean much. Pensioners were on to me this morning very early saying they cannot manage if they are on their own. The increase in the living alone allowance was shameful. I said here before that \u20ac3 would not buy a cup of coffee or a bar of chocolate and if you showed it to a young fella of eight or nine, he would be looking at you wondering where you were going with it. Families who have students attending third level education where both parents and the student are working may qualify for \u20ac500 from SUSI or nothing at all. That is not enough. With the third level fees and the mere \u20ac150 increase in the rent tax credit a parent can claim for a student near college, these working families tell me every day they are getting no help from the Government when they have been paying taxes for years. I extend my sympathies to the English family in Waterford which has lost four members, with two others seriously injured. I understand they were targeted due to a drug debt of a family member. This is a terrible outrage and we must get to grips with it because there are a lot of drugs coming to our shores. We are not manning our shores and many rural Garda stations were closed down. When a family member gets addicted to drugs they cannot pay their debt and then family members, including mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters, are targeted. This is an awful situation and I appeal to the Government to do its best. It has been highlighted by other Members that Ballyheigue does not have any drinkable water. This has gone on for two weeks. Has the Government an emergency budget to address this water contamination? Apparently seawater has got into the supply. I have been told by many locals what happened there. They stopped taking water from the Glenderry area to the west on Kerry Head and left Ballyheigue supplying water to the entire area. Ballyheigue was not able to keep its supply full and people are saying that is how the saltwater got in. People are asking that this well be closed for a fortnight or three weeks to see if it will clear because it is still supplying toilets, cattle and everything. Otherwise it will never come up to the level it needs to come up to in order to see whether it will clear. If it does not clear, it will have to be forgotten about. To that end, we need to open up Glenderry again. People are saying it is not suitable for drinking but it could be used for toilets, washing and everything else and give the Ballyheigue supply a chance to clear. Killarney water comes as far as the village of Ardfert, which is 5 miles or 6 miles down the road from Ballyheigue. Could this water supply be extended to Ballyheigue? This will take a bit, but Irish Water must have a plan. Water could be brought from the Listowel area. There is plenty of water, but Irish Water needs to get working and laying pipes and that will cost money. The Government says it has no problem in giving it money. I appeal to the Minister of State to ensure that the people in this massive catchment area are not left behind any longer. Let us suppose they bring the water from Ardfert - the Killarney water as we call it - from Lough Guitane. There is no problem in laying the pipes as there is a grand wide margin from Ardfert out to Ballyheigue. There are link roads so that the road will not be blocked or anything. It could be done in two weeks if there were two crews at it day and night. It could be done if the Government gives the money. On top of that, Kerry has fallen well behind the standards we were used to for the provision of water. The Lough Guitane supply comes grand as far as Coolcorcoran in the heart of Killarney, but the pipe going from Coolcorcoran to Scartaglin reservoir needs to be increased and expanded so that there will be enough water for the hospital in Tralee and all the places it has been providing water to for many years. This scheme was put in place about 60 years ago and it is an asbestos pipe. The pipe needs to be taken out of there. I am sure they could lay a new pipe alongside it or go a different way so that there would not be too much interruption. A lot of work needs to be done. Could the Minister of State talk to the Minister, Deputy Browne, the Taoiseach and all the other members of the Government who are linked in any way to this problem and could help to sort it out? This has to be a priority. I appeal to the Minister of State. I got the flu in recent days but I still came up because I wanted to highlight this serious issue on behalf of the people of Ballyheigue, Causeway, Kilmoyley, Linderry and Kerry Head \u2013 all those places cannot be left without water. It is two weeks' now today. What progress has been made? I will be back here next week with the help of God and I will ask again to see what progress has been made. I will ask about it tomorrow. Nothing could be more serious than to leave people without potable drinkable water. The other question that farmers are asking is if it is safe for the animals to be drinking the salt water because they have nothing else apart from a few streams here and there. All these things need to be teased out. I appeal to the Minister of State to sort this out. We must start by closing down Ballyheigue and getting water somewhere else. We can see if the salt will clear in Ballyheigue and if it does not, it will have to be completely forgotten about. This happened with wells in the past. People had to move on. It is hard to understand it, as the Ballyheigue well is high above the strand and the ocean, but anything can happen, and that is what has happened. I appeal to the Minister of State. I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for granting me the indulgence to raise it with him. Nothing could be more serious than to be without water. The people of Kerry whom I represent in Ballyheigue, Causeway, down as far as Ardfert and up as far as Linderry \u2013 all those places need water as good as anywhere else. Like I have said before, the people in those places are entitled to everything that the people in Dublin 4 get. I appeal to the Minister of State's good offices and to the Taoiseach to sort this out because it needs to be sorted out today before tomorrow."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Robert Troy) I thank all the Deputies for their contributions to the Finance Bill this evening. To be fair to Deputy Danny Healy-Rae, he did acknowledge that I am not responsible for the water in Kerry. I will pass on the points that he raised this evening to the relevant Minister."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Danny Healy-Rae","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Danny-Healy-Rae.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Danny Healy-Rae I know that the Minister of State is not responsible but I hold him responsible with the Government."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Robert Troy If Deputy Healy-Rae had waited until I finished responding, to be fair, I was saying that I would raise it with the person responsible. I will do that. If the Deputy had stayed supporting the Government he might have a little bit more influence, but anyway that is not the case. Deputy Collins raised the point that it is not a budget for west Cork. It is not a budget for any particular area; it is a national budget that brings about taxation measures and gives effect to the budget. I agree with Deputy Flynn, who says that on occasion here it could be The Gaiety, but some might say that he plays it up on occasion himself also. The core of this budget is about supporting people who need help today while ensuring the Government retains the fiscal capacity to support those who may need help tomorrow. Every decision we make in respect of public finances has a direct impact on our ability to respond to future crises. We must treat public finances with respect, especially given the heightened international uncertainty we face. Across Europe, governments are being forced to make difficult decisions on spending and taxation. Ireland, by contrast, enters this period with record employment and budget surpluses. This position did not happen by accident. It reflects decisions taken over many years to maintain a competitive economy, support employment and manage our public finances responsibly. We cannot take that strength for granted. I acknowledge that we have an issue in relation to our over-reliance on corporation tax. That is why the Government established two future funds and why in this budget alone we put an additional \u20ac1 billion on top of the \u20ac4.8 billion that is committed this year, recognising that we must put away our excess corporation tax and also put excess corporation tax into capital expenditure. It was a record budget for roads and housing. I am somewhat amazed at some of the contributions by Deputies over the course of the debate here this evening. Some Deputies criticised people who create wealth and foreign direct investment companies who choose to invest in Ireland, who create not tens of thousands of jobs, but hundreds of thousands of jobs. They do not just create jobs directly in their own workplaces but they also give the people who work in them a real and meaningful income that they can go out and spend in the domestic economy, supporting shops and the hospitality sector. These are real jobs. I do not think any government should make an apology for ensuring that we remain attractive and competitive as an economy and not only retain the FDI that is located in Ireland but attract new FDI that could potentially come to Ireland. I acknowledge the incredibly good work the IDA does in this regard. Next year we will celebrate the 40th anniversary of the establishment of the International Financial Services Centre, IFSC - a vision set out by Charles J. Haughey back in 1987. Who would have thought 40 years later that there would be 61,000 jobs in the international financial services sector? Of the 61,000 jobs that are directly created in this sector, 25% of them are in the regions. They are real, quality jobs across the regions of Ireland supporting people to create a life for themselves and they ensure that we support regional economies as well. It is important that we continuously look at the taxation measures that we have as a country so we can continue to remain competitive and to fight above our weight in terms of our ability to attract foreign direct investment. That is why it is important to make changes to the research and development tax credit also. Some Deputies took issue with the amendment to the research and development tax credit. In 2023, some 1,804 companies availed of it. They are companies that are providing real, quality jobs right throughout the length and breadth of Ireland. The 1,804 companies that availed of the research and development tax credit in 2023 paid \u20ac10 billion in corporation tax. The taxation measures we introduce have a direct consequence. When we remain competitive, it helps us increase our tax take. Because we have a competitive and strong economy and full employment, we have been in a position to respond to people who need help with the cost of living. We have been able to increase the fuel allowance, reduce VAT on gas and electricity, increase the temporary fuel excise, increase income tax and personal tax credits and reduce USC thresholds. We have been able to do all this investment because we have a strong and stable economy, full employment and are running budget surpluses. The contradictory remarks regarding the derelict property tax were a bit surprising. Some people were ultra critical of the councils for their inability to collect the tax in recent years. Deputy Gould criticised the Government for Cork County Council's inability to collect it over 20 years and criticised us for not handing it over to the Revenue quickly enough but also asked why we are taking it away from the local authorities. The reason for the delay in moving it from the local authorities to Revenue is that it is being done through negotiation with Revenue, with the Department of housing and with local government to ensure they will have a proper list compiled by the time it is handed over to Revenue. When a new tax is being introduced, you need to ensure it is fair and is consistently applied throughout the jurisdiction. We cannot have any differences in the tax charged in Westmeath, west Cork or Kerry. We need to ensure people take corrective actions to bring derelict properties into a habitable state. If this is to work properly, it should not be a revenue-generating exercise. It should be about bringing derelict properties back into habitable use. The Government has a strong record in supporting people to do this in recent years, with cro\u00ed c\u00f3naithe, the vacant house grant, the SEAI grants and the living above the shop initiative grants. That has worked in some instances but, unfortunately, in other instances, it has not worked. That is why it is important this measure be transferred to Revenue and that will be done over the course of the next number of years. Deputy Conway-Walsh was critical of the Government and looked for greater efficiencies in provision of public services. This is an example of where we need to see greater efficiencies. We need to see new measures being implemented in a timely fashion so they can have an impact on the communities we represent. She talked about supporting public sector workers and I agree wholeheartedly they need to be supported. That is why it is great to see the wage negotiations taking place. A point raised a number of times related to the new personal investment account. Deputies were somewhat critical of a Government that is introducing an account that will help people become more financially resilient. We have \u20ac180 billion on demand deposit in Ireland. We are a nation of savers. The people who are saving are not making their money work well for themselves. We want to bring in an investment account that will support people in becoming more financially resilient, planning for the future and doing so in an easy, accessible way. By encouraging people to invest in the markets, we will also support job creation and people who want to create jobs - again, that is something that was criticised in a number of contributions. I thank the Deputies for contributing to the debate. I look forward to the opportunity to engage in more detail as the finance Bill goes through the various Stages in the Oireachtas."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026: Second Stage"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_21","debateType":"debate","bill":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/98","event":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/bill\/2026\/98\/dail\/motion\/referral","houseCode":"dail","stage":"motion","isBillStage":false,"showAs":"Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee (D\u00e1il)"}},"showAs":"Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_21","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Robert Troy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Robert-Troy.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Robert Troy) I move: That the Bill be referred to the Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach, pursuant to Standing Orders 103(2)( b ) and 188(1)."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Finance (No. 2) Bill 2026: Referral to Select Committee"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_22","debateType":"motion","bill":null,"showAs":"Drug Debt Related Intimidation and Community Safety: Motion [Private Members]","counts":{"speechCount":41,"speakerCount":33},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_22","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dessie Ellis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Matt Carthy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Matt-Carthy.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Matt Carthy I move: notes that: \u2014 drug dealers and organised criminal gangs are terrorising families, exploiting vulnerable young people and holding entire communities to ransom through intimidation, threats, extortion and violence; \u2014 the activities of these criminal gangs represent a direct assault on community safety, with residents, families and local businesses forced to live in fear in their own neighbourhoods; \u2014 drug-related intimidation extends far beyond those involved in drug use, with parents, grandparents, siblings and innocent family members frequently threatened and targeted over alleged drug debts; \u2014 criminal gangs deliberately exploit vulnerable children and young people, drawing them into drug dealing, debt, criminal activity and cycles of intimidation and violence; \u2014 recent deaths and serious incidents of drug-related violence have demonstrated the devastating consequences of allowing criminal gangs to establish a foothold in communities; \u2014 drug dealers must not be allowed to exercise control over streets, housing estates or neighbourhoods, and no community should be abandoned to organised criminality; and \u2014 recognises that while drug-related intimidation affects all communities, its impact is often most acute in areas already experiencing persistent poverty, social exclusion, educational disadvantage, unemployment and historic underinvestment, where organised criminal gangs can exploit existing vulnerabilities; further notes that: \u2014 any effective response must tackle these root causes alongside law enforcement measures, residents, community activists, youth workers and local organisations have repeatedly demonstrated leadership and courage in standing up to drug dealing and intimidation, often without adequate support or protection from the State; \u2014 the Garda Drug Related Intimidation Reporting Programme and community-based initiatives such as Drug Related Intimidation and Violence Engagement (DRIVE) provide important mechanisms for responding to intimidation, but require greater investment, coordination and public awareness; \u2014 tackling drug-related intimidation cannot be left to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na alone and requires a comprehensive, community-led response involving policing, addiction services, youth organisations, local authorities, schools and community representatives; \u2014 restoring community safety requires both an uncompromising response to the criminal gangs responsible and sustained investment in the communities and families they target; and \u2014 Local Community Safety Partnerships provide an important opportunity to put communities at the centre of tackling drug dealing, intimidation and violence, but must be backed by meaningful resources, clear responsibilities and measurable outcomes; condemns: \u2014 the criminal gangs and drug dealers who prey on vulnerable people, threaten families, recruit children into criminal activity and use violence to control communities; \u2014 the use of drug debts as a means of extortion and coercion, including threats against innocent family members; \u2014 the targeting of community workers, residents and others who challenge drug dealing and criminal behaviour; and \u2014 the failure to ensure that every community affected by persistent drug-related criminality has the policing, public services and community supports necessary to confront it; and calls on the Government to: \u2014 launch a major crackdown on drug gangs and intimidation, providing dedicated Garda resources to identify, investigate and prosecute those responsible for drug dealing, extortion, threats and violence, and to target the finances and assets of organised criminal gangs; \u2014 establish a comprehensive community-led response to drug-related intimidation, bringing together An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, local residents, community organisations, drug and alcohol task forces, local authorities, youth services and other statutory agencies to develop coordinated local action plans; \u2014 increase the number of Garda\u00ed being trained annually so that there are sufficient members available to tackle drug related intimidation and keep communities safe; \u2014 place drug-related intimidation at the centre of Local Community Safety Partnerships, requiring targeted action plans in affected areas, with dedicated funding, meaningful community participation and clear accountability for delivery; \u2014 strengthen the Garda Drug Related Intimidation Reporting Programme, providing specialist resources, greater public awareness, confidential reporting pathways, timely Garda intervention and effective protection for victims and their families; \u2014 expand and fully resource the DRIVE programme, ensuring every community affected by drug-related intimidation has access to trained community workers, specialist family supports and coordinated Garda and community interventions; \u2014 introduce dedicated community safety investment programmes in areas experiencing persistent drug dealing and intimidation, including additional community Garda\u00ed, improved public spaces, youth facilities, sporting amenities and community-based services; \u2014 provide immediate and practical protection for families targeted by drug gangs, including emergency accommodation, relocation where necessary, counselling, family support and access to appropriate legal assistance; \u2014 develop a national programme to prevent the recruitment and exploitation of children and young people by drug gangs, including early intervention, outreach youth work, education, mentoring and targeted support for those at risk; \u2014 provide sustainable, multiannual funding to frontline community organisations, recognising their central role in challenging drug-related intimidation, supporting families, building community resilience and creating safer neighbourhoods; \u2014 strengthen accountability across Government, requiring the Ministers responsible for Justice, Health, Housing, Children and Community Development to deliver a coordinated response, with annual reporting to the Oireachtas on Garda enforcement, victim protection, community investment and progress in reducing drug-related intimidation; and \u2014 commit to sustained, long-term investment in communities that have experienced persistent disadvantage, recognising that tackling drug-related intimidation requires not only effective policing but also action to reduce poverty, inequality and social exclusion and to expand access to education, employment, healthcare, housing, sport, recreation and community development opportunities. T\u00e1 daoine feargach. T\u00e1 daoine scanraithe. Caithfidh na garda\u00ed dul i ngleic go dian leis na dronganna druga\u00ed. Drug debt intimidation is destroying lives. It is leaving individuals and families living in fear. People are angry and frightened and, in too many communities, people feel abandoned. The horrific murders in Waterford of Philip and Kim English and their sons Callum and Jayden shocked us all. I want to express my deepest condolences to the English family and send our best wishes to the two children who remain in hospital. What happened to the family was horrific. It is our duty as elected representatives to not only say such a thing must never happen again but to work to that end. Many colleagues who will speak tonight have been supporting those dealing with drug debt intimidation for years. What they will tell us is what our communities have been telling us: the situation is getting worse, with increased fear, despair and violence, families forced to leave their homes in the dead of night, people who pay alleged drug debts for family members and tell no one and people who feel they can barely breathe because drug gangs are taking control of their communities and, in some cases, their lives. We are talking about homes being attacked, petrol bombed, vandalised; cars being burnt out; people being violently assaulted. We are talking about lives destroyed and, in some tragic cases, lives lost. Communities are asking when enough is enough. Many victims feel they have no choice but to pay. The majority of instances go unreported because people are terrified to go to An Garda. There needs to be a public awareness campaign so people know where to turn if this happens to them. The supports need to be there for them when they do so. Support alone is not enough. There must a be a two-track approach: a long-term investment and focus on prevention that includes significant investment in tackling deprivation, poverty and inequality, combined with an immediate and determined crackdown on the criminal gangs responsible for this intimidation. There needs to be a particular focus on stopping young people being groomed by drug gangs into a life of criminality. Right now, affected communities need high-visibility policing on their streets. That involves significant increases in community garda\u00ed. There needs to be a concerted, sustained and resourced Garda operation cracking down on those involved in drug debt intimidation. Those engaged in this criminality have to be identified, arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned. We need to get these people off our streets and out of our communities. The Criminal Assets Bureau should establish a dedicated operation to identify and target those responsible for drug debt intimidation, seizing the assets of gangs and individuals who terrorise and communities. While drug debt intimidation can affect anyone, we know working-class communities have been disproportionately impacted. That is why investment in these communities is so important. Communities need properly funded outreach workers, youth services, addiction supports and diversion programmes. They need practical supports, including investment in community safety measures such as CCTV. Communities deserve to feel safe and families deserve to live free from fear. Those who think that they can hold entire communities to ransom through intimidation and violence must know that the full resources of the State will be deployed against them. I implore and plead with all Members of the House to support this Sinn F\u00e9in motion, but more importantly, to work together to put its provisions into effect."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy David Cullinane Trauma, sadness and heartbreak; that is what happened in Waterford over the last number of days, as I am sure the Minister is aware. A family has been utterly devastated. I attended the funeral yesterday, as did Minister of State, Deputy Butler, and Deputy Conor McGuinness. We saw four coffins lined up, including two white coffins for the children. Philip, Kim, Callum, and Jayden were murdered in their home and young Nadia and Elliot are still fighting for their lives. It was violent criminality and drug intimidation that caused this. People were looking for money from an innocent family, and their lives were taken. Drug intimidation has consequences. It destroys lives. It destroys communities, and we have seen the utter devastation that it has had in Waterford. There have been many attacks on many families over the course of the last number of years. Many of them go unreported. Some of them have been raised in this House. Those families live in fear, and those criminal gangs and thugs thrive on fear and silence. It is very difficult for people to come forward. I have genuinely spoken to hundreds of people in Waterford who said that the English family lived in fear. For any family to have to live in that fear is unimaginable, but they ask what to do in these circumstances, if the State is not there to protect them. This is because those gangs thrive on fear and silence. There can be no fear and silence in this House and from the State. The State has to stand up in a really forceful way, and say it is going to crack down on these criminal gangs; that there will be no hiding place for the people who carry out attacks, or for the people behind them and those who give the orders. I spoke to Philip's father, Paddy, and he said to me, \"If you are talking to the Minister, tell him to change the law\". If the law needs to be changed, that is what needs to be done. We have to do absolutely everything possible to protect those families and anybody who is a victim of drug intimidation. I never want to see anything like the scene I saw in Waterford. I never want to go into a community again and have to look people in the eye, and see that trauma and sadness, but also that anger that is there as well. The politicians from Waterford understand this. It was palpable. People are seething about what happened. There is that deep anger because what happened was so outrageous and wrong. Those four people should still be alive today. I am appealing to the Minister. Everything possible that can be done should be done to, first, bring these people to justice and that means the people who gave the orders. There can be no hiding place for them. I do not care where they are or in what country. Wherever they are, they have to be brought to justice. It is the same for any of these gangs who are perpetrating this type of violence in our communities. I again offer my condolences to the English family. I hope, and it has been said time and again in Waterford over the course of the last number of days, that this is a turning point. This has to be a point where the State says enough is enough; these criminal gangs will be brought to justice; that there will be that crackdown and families will not have to live in fear like the English family had to do."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Conor D. McGuinness","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Conor-D-McGuinness.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Conor D. McGuinness Yesterday, we said goodbye to Jayden and Callum, to their mother, Kim, and to their father, Philip, and the sadness of their funerals will stay with me. It was, and it is, utterly heartbreaking. We offer the Companjen and English families our condolences again. As we stand here discussing this, there are two children still fighting for their lives in hospital. They and their family remain in our prayers. In conversations across Waterford one message kept coming through loud and clear: this cannot happen another family. This must be the turning point. As the cameras leave Waterford and the news cycle moves on, the political focus has to remain. Drug-related violence and intimidation affect families in every city, town, village and townland in the country. I personally know young men who have taken their own lives under the weight of that intimidation and those threats against them and their families, and that devastating consequence often goes unseen and unspoken. This really must be that moment of change. The first national report on drug-related intimidation recorded 1,017 cases across every county in the State, and we know that is the tip of the iceberg. Many more go unreported. We need to see a determined Garda crackdown, not just on those carrying out those crimes, as Deputy Cullinane said, but on those directing, orchestrating and profiteering from them. The people at the top must be faced down and brought to justice. The Government has to ensure that garda\u00ed have the resources to dismantle these gangs, confiscate the proceeds of their crimes, protect threatened families, invest in community supports, actually resource drug and alcohol strategies, prevent young people from being exploited in this way and ensure social inclusion, youth and mental health services have the money to do their essential work. Our motion sets out practical measures, and the Government must give the issue the priority it now demands. If we are being honest, that priority has never been given. It has not happened to date. Today must be that turning point. It must be the watershed moment. Those impacted deserve more than words of sympathy. We have to turn their despair into a lasting action."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mark Ward","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","memberCode":"Mark-Ward.D.2019-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mark Ward The tragedy that was inflicted on an innocent family in Waterford must not go unanswered. I also offer my sincerest condolences to everybody impacted by this attack. Drug debt intimidation, open drug dealing and gang-related violence have no place in our communities. The people who are doing this offer nothing to our communities. They suck the lifeblood out of them, and they have no place whatsoever in them. I listened to the Minister's statements during the week. He said that this should be a watershed moment. I agree, but when this was relayed to people in my community, there was a bit of anger there in relation to that. Our communities have been crying out for support and protection for years. I have been raising drug debt intimidation and gang-related crime in this Chamber since I was elected. I have been speaking about an ongoing feud in my area for a long time. The firebombing of homes is becoming a modus operandi for these thugs. Over a dozen homes were set ablaze during the feud in one estate alone in my constituency, leaving ordinary workers and people, decent residents, terrified. Why was this not a watershed moment? An 11-day-old baby had to be evacuated from a home because the house next door was targeted by these thugs and was firebombed. Why was this not a watershed moment? A teenager was attacked with a machete in broad daylight on the main road in Neilstown. Why was this not a watershed moment? Separate to the feud, we also had another incident where a woman opened her door and had flammable liquid thrown at her. She was set ablaze, leaving her with life-changing injuries and an area absolutely traumatised. Why was this not a watershed moment? My area is not unique. The Minister is going to hear similar stories about their own areas from my colleagues. Our communities are terrified and have collective trauma. At the time, I called for a local task force to deal with the issues, and I felt those pleas fell on deaf ears. We got help after a young man was murdered. I told the D\u00e1il that if my community did not get the help that it needed, somebody was going to lose their life, and that happened. We called for help and got it from the garda\u00ed after that. The garda\u00ed have done a decent job, but there are not enough of them. There are less community garda\u00ed in my area today than there was this time last year. However, we are not just going to police our way out of this situation. This motion calls for a trauma-led response and a co-ordinated response between the garda\u00ed, stakeholders and community groups, but they have to be resourced. We have to resource our communities. We have to give our communities the ability to have resilience against these thugs. We must also send out the message today that these thugs have no place in our communities. They are not wanted in our communities, and the days when they can operate with impunity in our communities are numbered."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ann Graves","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ann-Graves.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ann Graves My thoughts this evening are with the English family and the wider community in Waterford; a community devastated by violent crime. Families and communities have had to face terror on their own and in silence for too long. I have spoken to the Minister directly about drug-related intimidation. I have sat with families who live in constant fear of violence. I have met and listened to communities that have been traumatised by regimes of terror. There is not a town or village in this State that is unaffected and our working-class communities - areas that are deprived of adequate public services - are, as always, disproportionately affected. In my constituency of Dublin Fingal East, I have supported many families suffering intimidation and violence. One young man who ran up a drug debt was assaulted and ended up in hospital, and his elderly parents were threatened. Their car was burned out and their home was vandalised. They could not borrow to pay off what started off as \u20ac15,000 debt and ended up becoming a \u20ac40,000 debt. I worked with the family and they engaged with DRIVE and the matter was successfully resolved but they still live in constant fear. A mother who sadly lost her daughter because of an overdose was approached during her child's funeral and told she was responsible for her daughter's debt. She cleared the drug debt but had to borrow to cover the costs of her daughter's funeral. There are young women being forced into sexploitation to clear their debts or those of loved ones. These are just some examples. We can no longer ignore or turn a blind eye to this scourge on families and communities. Government must prioritise tackling the violence just as it rightly prioritised tackling the drug crisis following Veronica Guerin's murder in 1996. This must be a similar movement that demands a similar all-of-government response. Tackling violence cannot be left to drug projects, the drug task force and youth services. These services are already underfunded and overstretched. Reducing it to a drugs issue only stigmatises and marginalises all the victims. It is deeper and more complex. It involves child grooming, sexual exploitation, taking over and occupying people's homes and forcing families to hold on to weapons and drugs. Women are particularly vulnerable, with mothers and grandmothers bearing the brunt of the violence and shouldering the cause of drug debts. Tackling intimidation and violence cannot be left to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na alone. It requires a comprehensive community-led response involving policing, addiction services, youth organisations, local authorities and education and community leaders. I am urging the Minister to support Sinn Fein's motion and to work cross-party to make our community safer. I met the Minister at recovery events in September. Many of those families are dealing with drug intimidation and debts. I invite people to support a vigil being organised by Family Addiction Recovery Network, FARI, to highlight the plight of families facing violence, which will be held outside the D\u00e1il on Tuesday, 3 November at 1 p.m."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Thomas Gould","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Thomas-Gould.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Thomas Gould I want to begin by sending our thoughts and prayers to the English family - Philip, Kim, Callum and Jayden - and to Nadia and Elliott, who at this moment are fighting for the lives in hospital. It is absolutely heartbreaking stuff. However, this is not without warning as my colleagues have outlined. I have here some correspondence sent to Cork City Council in the past couple of months about families who have been burnt out or who are under threat. I have some of the correspondence sent to the garda\u00ed in Anglesea Street and Mayfield. I have made telephone calls to them. I have documents on the policing forum and the old policy we did in Cork because we knew how dangerous it was. I have correspondence from the Minister who I contacted a number of times with questions but specifically on 31 August because two families in my constituency were petrol bombed out of their homes. There were four petrol bombings in five weeks. People are living in fear. There is a woman right now watching this debate tonight who lives alone in her home. She has been petrol bombed twice. She is a widow and she is terrified. Does the Minister know what she said? She said that the garda\u00ed are lovely and they are doing the best. However, the Garda does not have the power or the resources. There should be a zero-tolerance approach to these people. The garda\u00ed know who they are. I have spoken to the garda\u00ed. They know who is doing this. In my community, there are families that have been destroyed because young people have died by suicide. Six young men died by suicide in the past couple of years, although it may be more, but they are the ones I personally know of. Can the Minister imagine the thoughts of those families when they heard what happened in Waterford? All I would say is that we need action now."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy David Cullinane Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Sh\u00f3nagh-N\u00ed-Raghallaigh.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sh\u00f3nagh N\u00ed Raghallaigh Sinn F\u00e9in is bringing forward this motion for a major crackdown on drug debt intimidation, an end to drug gangs terrorising families and long-term investment in our communities. I have heard from families in Kildare town, Athy, Derrinturn and Newbridge who are all living with threats, fear and violence. They have been left to fight this battle themselves. If we are to get serious about tackling drugs, we must be clear that drug use and addiction are first and foremost issues of healthcare. If we do not have serious, robust community supports and interventions, then we are abandoning some of our most vulnerable. The link between the communities most affected by austerity and communities suffering the most from drugs is clear for all to see. Every community deserves to feel safe, secure and protected. Alongside effective services, policing also plays a role in the fight against drug-related intimidation. While not the only part of the solution, it is a basic foundation of our communities that they be serviced by effective and visible policing. I am sure the Government would share my disappointment that Kildare South has experienced a net loss of garda\u00ed this year when we take into account resignations and retirements. Our local authorities have a role to play here. I meet with individuals and families all the time who are facing serious dangerous intimidation in their homes and local authorities and approved housing bodies have been dragging their feet in arranging housing transfers for these people. Tackling drugs and drug-related intimidation is not confined to one Department, one agency or one body. Every Government Department, from housing to health to justice and beyond, has a role to play here. The heart of this motion is simple. Communities deserve to feel safe, protected and free from intimidation. This is the very bedrock of our society but in order for us to achieve and protect this, we need to ensure our communities are serviced by sustained effective supports and interventions and this needs to be in conjunction with community-backed, properly staffed policing."},{"speaker":{"showAs":" Deputies","uri":null,"memberCode":null,"role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputies Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jim O'Callaghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Jim-O'Callaghan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Jim O'Callaghan) I am sharing time with the Minister of State, Deputy Butler. The first thing I want to do is thank Sinn F\u00e9in for putting down this motion, which the Government will be supporting. I also want to join my colleagues in expressing my condolences to the English family arising from the harrowing arson attack that was perpetrated on them. Part of the reason the Government is supporting the Sinn F\u00e9in motion is that it is extremely important there is a united response from D\u00e1il \u00c9\u00edreann to the public at large stating that we are united in terms of our ambition, commitment and dedication to ensure that we combat drug-related intimidation and violence. It is regrettably the case that drug-related intimidation and violence exist throughout our society. No particular section of society is safe from it. We need to state together that there is no place for such intimidation in this country, in a civilised society, and any persons who seek to terrorise families for their own financial gain will be pursued relentlessly by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. Deputy Cullinane asked who is there to protect people. I want to say to the Deputy the State and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na are there to protect people. The only way that we can combat this scourge of drug-related intimidation is if An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na combats it. To do that, and I know it is extremely difficult for families who are subject to intimidation, the Garda needs to be given the information. I would urge people - anyone in this country who at present is facing intimidation in a drug-related context - to go to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. I appreciate that may strike some terror into them because of the consequence and the fear they have of the person intimidating them but I would tell them, and I think this House would agree, that the only way to combat it is through An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na being informed and involved. The drug-related intimidation and violence programme that was launched last year by my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, seeks to put together a co-ordinated response by the State so that we can get a response to these acts of violence and intimidation that are ongoing. I fully appreciate that this is not solely a policing issue and it is essential that social services and the health services are involved and that we recognise the addiction that can give rise to these intimidatory practises on the part of criminals. I also have to point out, as I pointed out last Friday, that when it comes to people who make a decision early on to use drugs, they need to be informed and told that this is going to bring a load of misery on to them as a result of a decision to get involved in taking drugs. Not only does it bring misery on them individually but it can bring terrible intimidation on their families. I repeat that the only way to resolve this issue is through An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. I want the Deputies to know that I will resource An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to ensure it is able to meet this threat. The force has investigated many such cases of drugs intimidation and has secured convictions. That is a significant step and a significant measure of the Garda's success. There is no way we can solve this on our own. Individuals on their own will not be able to stand up to the intimidatory practices of drug dealers, but with the presence of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and its investigative ability, I believe they will be able to do so. Looking at the resources within the force, the most important aspect of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is the men and women who are members of the force. We achieved a milestone last Friday when we reached the largest number of members of An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na in the history of the State, with the number of sworn members now standing at 14,820. Those extra resources provide an opportunity and an ability to the Commissioner to direct garda\u00ed to combat this terrible and frightening ongoing activity. Through Operation Tara, the Garda's national anti-drugs strategy, garda\u00ed are disrupting, dismantling and prosecuting those involved in drug trafficking and organised crime. Intelligence-led operations, co-ordinated investigations and targeted enforcement activity have led to criminal networks being deprived of drugs, cash, assets and the profits that sustain their activities. We have seen the success of the Garda when it comes to combating some of the biggest drug gangs not just in Ireland but in the world. For that success to continue, we need to come together as a society and recognise that the only way to combat this is through the work of our garda\u00ed. I ask people to put their faith in An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. The work of the Garda National Drugs and Organised Crime Bureau, together with regional Garda units and CAB, sends a clear message to those involved in intimidation and violence that no one is beyond the reach of the law. Through targeted responses such as Operation F\u00f3gra, the Garda is further putting that commitment into action by tackling drug-related intimidation through a victim-centred approach that pairs targeted law enforcement activity with practical supports for victims and their families. I encourage victims to seek support through their continued investment in our confidential reporting pathway, the Garda drug-related intimidation reporting programme. The Garda has the expertise, resources and powers to provide support and protection to victims. I appeal to victims, notwithstanding that I know it can be very intimidating for them and they can be fearful of doing it, to put their faith in An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mary Butler","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Mary-Butler.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler) Yesterday, people in Waterford came together to lay to rest Philip and Kim English and their young sons, Callum and Jayden. People watched online and turned out in person, standing quietly along the route, united in sorrow and wanting to show solidarity with the family. It is difficult to express what losing so many members of the English family has done. It has shaken not just Waterford but the country as a whole. The sight of four coffins side by side, two of them holding the remains of two beautiful young children who had lost their lives, is something I never again want to witness. What happened in Birchwood last week has not just left people heartbroken. People are, rightly, angry and they are searching for answers. Let us not forget that along with the four innocent lives taken, two children, 14-year-old Nadia and six-year old Elliot, continue to fight for their lives in Crumlin hospital tonight. Over the past week, I have met the neighbours, friends, teachers, community workers, voluntary organisation staff and others who have been profoundly affected by the events of last week. In the midst of this horrendous tragedy, we saw decency, compassion and kindness shown by the people of Waterford and this great country as a whole. I particularly acknowledge Ms Amy Maguire and the team at the Butler Community Centre and also the Sacred Heart Family Resource Centre, which became support hubs to help people to deal with the shock, trauma and disbelief following this awful tragedy. We in this House must acknowledge that in the worst of circumstances, communities have rallied together to offer support, counselling, practical assistance and comfort to those who need it. As Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan told mourners at the funeral yesterday, \"anyone taking drugs recreationally is feeding an evil machine\". It is those behind that evil machine who are responsible for four beautiful souls being laid into the ground yesterday. The realty we all must face is that the majority of people taking drugs are doing so by choice. They see it as a weekend or weekday recreation in which there is no harm. However, the results are devastating, not just for the English family but for countless families and communities up and down the country. The scourge of drugs is impacting on every village, town and city in the country. Tonight, let us be unified in sending a message from this House that we have had enough and that we are coming after the criminal thugs responsible for wreaking havoc, despair and death on communities. Let this be a watershed moment. Let us honour the memory of Kim, Philip, Callum and Jayden English not only with our words but with a clear message to the criminals that we will not stand for the extortion, threats, violence and the ending of lives. Enough is enough. This has to stop. I extend my deepest condolences to the extended English family and Companjen family, who have known unbearable grief and loss this week. As Deputies Cullinane and McGuinness said earlier, one had to be there to experience what it was like, with the silence in the church broken only by tears and seeing four coffins going into the ground, with two children laid to rest on their mother and father while two other children fight for their life tonight in Crumlin hospital. This has to stop. I thank the Minister for supporting this motion and Sinn F\u00e9in for putting it forward."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maurice Quinlivan I extend my sympathy and solidarity to the English family, who suffered such horrendous loss in last week's vicious murders in Waterford. A family has been utterly destroyed, communities across Waterford are devastated and the entire nation is grieving because of the barbaric criminal actions of a drugs gang. Drug debt intimidation takes many forms, from threats and criminal damage to assaults and sexual exploitation. The drug gangs exploit the most vulnerable, who, too often, are unconnected to drugs, including parents, grandparents, siblings, other relatives and friends. They become the targets when drug payments are not made. Last week's murders have, of course, focused minds but drug intimidation and violence is not new. In Limerick, families have experienced those threats and the accompanying violence for many years. I have raised the issue of drug intimidation and violence in this Chamber many times over the years. In February 2021, I spoke of a particular estate in Limerick city where it seemed drug gangs had taken over and, what is worse, continue to operate with impunity. Without aggressive State intervention, these gangs have the resources and propensity for violence to suppress any community. In Limerick, they have built unauthorised structures and claimed public land without challenge. The structure I mentioned in 2021 remains in situ , with the local authority unable, unwilling or afraid to have it removed. Last week's murders serve as a tragic reminder of the danger of letting these gangs act with near impunity. They must be a wake-up call, as other crimes have not been to date, and the moment when citizens of the State say \"no more\". The murder of these children and their parents must be a starting point for aggressive action against drug gangs across the State. Our motion today sets out what is needed. We need a Garda operation to target these gangs aggressively, continued increased use of the Criminal Assets Bureau to target their ill-gotten gains, money seized by CAB to be returned to the communities most affected by this crime and a return to a community policing model to promote safer neighbourhoods. Finally, and most importantly, we must address the conditions that allow these gangs to thrive. We must offer hope to these communities by combating exclusion and poverty and implementing a targeted campaign to stop the gangs from recruiting vulnerable youths through prevention and intervention."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joanna Byrne Behind every drug debt is a mother living in terror, a father struggling in silence and a family wondering when the knock will come to the door, or worse. The lessons from the Drogheda feud as far back as 2017 have still not been acted on by the Government. We saw drug debt being bought up by drug gangs acting like vulture funds more than a year before the feud even started. In the following years, many of those indebted addicts were the ones throwing petrol bombs, pouring petrol through letter boxes and being used as cannon fodder by unscrupulous organised criminal gangs. We saw the under-resourced Garda run out of cars and personnel trying to deal with nightly incidents of fire bombings and other attacks. I pay tribute to retired Garda Chief Superintendent Christy Mangan for his leadership and his commitment to the communities affected by the Drogheda feud. He engaged directly and worked closely with the public at a time when fear and intimidation were part of daily life. His leadership helped bring several dangerous criminals to justice. As elected representatives, there were many times when we felt helpless. We could see the fear in our communities and the damage being done. We knew more resources were urgently needed. The former chief superintendent has since revealed that as the feud escalated out of control, Garda Headquarters refused requests for the extra resources he needed to prevent an all-out bloodbath. He said he was so concerned these two drug gangs would destroy the town that at one stage, he seriously considered requesting the assistance of the Army on the streets. The Government did not take the threat of the feud seriously. It did not pay heed to the destruction being wrought and it did not allocate the necessary resources until after the brutal murder and dismemberment of a local teenager, Keane Mulready-Woods, in 2020. Although the feud has been curtailed, nearly a decade on, I am still dealing with people displaced from their homes and families affected by drug debts that are not going away. Young people are being robbed of their futures. Criminal gangs are organised, intimidation is relentless and, sadly, the resources in An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and community-based supports in affected areas are not sufficient. Words in this Chamber mean nothing if families do not feel safe in their own homes at night and this will not happen until we see real investment in community policing and supports. Our streets belong to our communities, not to drug gangs. We need to invest to build up these communities, not stand and watch as scumbags tear them down, taking innocent lives along the way."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Natasha Newsome Drennan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Natasha-Newsome-Drennan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan I thank my colleagues in Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this motion. For years, the actions of the Minister and his counterparts have been solely reactionary. They wait until a crisis point has been reached before putting adequate resources in place and, all too often, it is only in response to an incident of great tragedy that we see meaningful action. Drugs are devastating families across Ireland. Teenagers and younger people are being groomed by these gangs and the simple fact remains that we do not have a significant number of garda\u00ed in our communities. After 16 years of either Fianna F\u00e1il or Fine Gael in power, they have only managed to add around 400 garda\u00ed nationally, despite our population increasing by over one million people. That is an utter disgrace. Are they not embarrassed that other police forces are openly coming to Ireland and poaching some of our most experienced officers? The drugs units across four counties in my region, an area of over 540,000 people, have less than 40 garda\u00ed assigned to them. How are we seriously expected to stop the growth of these gangs when garda\u00ed are operating on a shoestring? Operation F\u00f3gra has been successful in tackling drug-related intimidation, but why is it that Dublin gets these specialised units while communities outside it are left to watch this crisis worsen and pick up the pieces? Where is the Operation F\u00f3gra for the south east? Will we finally see it now?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Mair\u00e9ad Farrell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Mair\u00e9ad-Farrell.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Mair\u00e9ad Farrell Last week, Ireland was united in grief at the devastating news of the deaths of Philip, Kim, Callum and Jayden English. Equally, we were united in horror at the circumstances of their deaths and how this brutality could occur. I think I speak for all of us when I say our thoughts remain with the two children injured in this horrendous attack. Our shared anger, shock and grief must mean that we in this D\u00e1il do something about the scourge of drug-related intimidation happening in all our communities. They say there is not a county that is not impacted by drug intimidation, but I would say it runs far deeper than that. There is not a community that is not impacted by drug-related intimidation. For some, it is felt and seen by their community and neighbours but many others are suffering in silence and alone. This evening, while we discuss this motion, there are families in Galway and elsewhere who are terrified because they are suffocating under the weight of this burden. This is a burden that should fall on all of us collectively. It should not fall on an individual or family to deal with, who are suffering from this intimidation. It is incredibly difficult for families who are suffering from this type of intimidation not to do so in silence. I am sure a lot of us have witnessed this type of intimidation. It is nasty and scary. It is frightening for people. We need to make sure the Garda has the resources to tackle this issue head-on, whether that is through legislation or funding. We should have the burden here on us collectively and not on our communities and people individually. Our drug units and community garda\u00ed need to have the resources."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"M\u00e1ire Devine","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"M\u00e1ire-Devine.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy M\u00e1ire Devine Why have we allowed the term \"life is cheap\" to occur? The lack of a good response is causing an awful lot of despair throughout the country and those communities I and many of my colleagues deal with and try to help. Four years ago, I helped a mother find a safe space to receive help. She reached out following the suicide of her son and what she told me still gives me chills. He owed a drug debt and the drug gang told him either he kill himself or they would kill him. She lost her son to hanging. There is never going to be peace for this mam. It haunts her and her family forever. Arson is increasingly being used now as the tool of intimidation. Like fire itself, it knows no boundaries. It seems to have become the go-to tool of terror and murder, with deadly results. Many communities are trying to deal with this, and families are terrified, intimidated and live in fear. In the past three weeks, the Minister of State will be aware three petrol bombs were burning homes in our constituency of Dublin South-Central due to feuds and drug debts. Families were targeted and young and old - they do not discriminate. They had to leave their homes. A raging fire terrifies like nothing else and the drug lords know this. The increase in mistaken identity for fires is also a feature of this criminality. Fire is indiscriminate; it is not controlled and it is fatal. Little ones talk to their teachers about their estates that have experienced this and they are traumatised. The whole estate is traumatised, like those neighbours and firefighters in Waterford when they heard the distress, screams and terror of those trapped. This will forever remain with them. We need to act."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Gary Gannon","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Gary-Gannon.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Gary Gannon I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this motion. I begin by extending our deepest sympathies and support to the English family in County Waterford; Kim, Philip, their sons Callum and Jayden and the two children who remain in hospital. I agree this has to be a watershed moment for which we finally as a State collectively agree to get in the face of those who are perpetuating violence, intimidation and terror in communities the length and breadth of Ireland. However, I do not understand why that very moment was not last year at Christmas time, when a child of four years of age watching \"The Late Late Show\", Tadhg Farrell, and his great-aunt Mary Holt, were equally killed in their own home. That was the moment I expected the whole resources of the State and the collective will of D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann to have stepped up and got in front of these thugs because we knew this violence and franchising of thuggery and terror were happening all over Ireland. The stats and figures were there and that should have been the moment. I will lament forever that it was not, but now has to be the moment. One figure stuck in my head when the Minister referred to the will of the State to confront these drug gangs. The DRIVE programme was referenced, which is run by the Department of Health. That programme was funded last year to \u20ac280,000, with an increase in funding of \u20ac65,000 announced in September. Just under \u20ac350,000 went into that programme from the State. The DRIVE programme stats show that over 1,100 people made representations seeking help from DRIVE in 2025. Effectively, this equates to just over \u20ac3 per person per family seeking help and solace. The Minister should reflect on that. There is a lot of merit in the DRIVE programme but it needs greater additional resourcing. The Minister's own Department should, at minimum, match what the Department of Health gives. Clearly, there is a significant gap there. I am someone who talks about the need to understand the causes of crime and how we get in the face of those who perpetuate it. I look around not only at my own constituency. I imagine every single speaker who stands up here tonight, including the Minister, represents a constituency where they have had families come to them asking for help because they are genuinely terrified of a knock on their door that is going to come. This is at levels I have never seen. I have been around and known violence in communities for my whole life. I have never known it to the extent that is there at the moment. It is insidious. It has a multitude of forms that I do not think this State is quite ready to recognise. The Minister referred to the legislation introduced in 2024 concerning the coercion of children into criminal activity. There have been about 17 investigations under that Act so far. The most obvious problem, and it is absolutely a problem with that Act, is that a child has to step forward in court and say, \"Yes, I am being groomed, and that individual over there is the one who is grooming me into criminality.\" The Minister has to know, as much as everybody else, that the expectation, pressure and afterwards terror that is placed on that child is a burden too far. We need to look at how we can amend that legislation so that the one good adult who may exist in their life can step forward and take that. There are far more areas relating to drug-related deaths, crime and intimidation. That we do not have an Act on the Statute Book by which a person can be prosecuted for enforcing intimidation and coercion of a ransom by way of a threat or an act of violence is grotesquely flawed given that this is so prevalent now. I stood up in the D\u00e1il a couple of months ago and held up a copy of the Irish Farmers Journal where the front page highlighted that farming families were having to sell off farming equipment to pay debts. I do not believe for a second, regardless of the will, that we fully understand the extent of this problem. I do not believe that the full will and the force of the State is coming down on the thugs who perpetuate this terror. There are solutions. We need to reorientate our focus. I am conscious that the Minister and the Chief Whip argued that those who purchase drugs are fuelling this. It is hard to disagree with that. I understand what they mean. Last week, however, the Department of Health launched a health-led approach to drug addiction. On one arm, therefore, the Government is telling us that it recognises that drug addiction requires a health-led approach, and I fundamentally believe that with every fibre of my being. However, when it comes to those who are perpetuating violence and those who are poisoning their communities rather than those who are impacted by the poison, it just moralises and says, \"If you don't do this, they won't get that.\" There is an old slogan that came from the drugs marches of the nineties: \"Addicts We Care - Pushers Beware\". Pushers, drug dealers and gangs no longer fear this State. This State does not have a monopoly on violence when it comes to these gangs. I ask the Minister to get in front of them. We need to see more prosecution of mid- and high-level ranking members of these gangs who are perpetuating violence. Stop going after those who suffer from the poison and start going after those who poison them, because we are failing grotesquely."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Kelly Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rory Hearne I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing this motion forward. Everyone in this country was absolutely horrified and shocked by what happened with the loss of life suffered by the English family. As Deputy Gannon did, I extend my sympathies. It truly is horrific to think that those parents and children died in a petrol bomb attack of their house. Those children deserve to be waking up. They deserve to be having a Christmas. I am sickened by it and we all should be. It should be the turning point. There should have been other turning points, but this has to be the one where this does not happen again. Unfortunately, in my constituency, just two days after that attack, there was a petrol bomb attack on a house in Finglas and a family managed to escape. This State is not ensuring that children can go to sleep at night knowing that they are safe. That is a very serious indictment of the failure of this State to ensure that communities are safe. I cannot help but contrast the way in which the resources of this State were mobilised and continue to be mobilised for the EU Presidency. Yet what can we do? We cannot ensure our communities are safe. In my constituency, as I mentioned, the issue in Finglas is still there. In Ballymun, in particular, which the Minister is familiar with, there are serious issues. There are endemic levels of intimidation and violence. Shootings are going on. Children are picking up firearms in playgrounds. This is going on, but we are not seeing a sufficient response. We need to see visible Garda operations. We need to see interventions that tackle it at all levels, including diversion. I am part of the Ballymun local drugs and alcohol task force and it has asked me to raise this issue. As my colleague mentioned, the national DRIVE programme is waiting for funding from the Department of justice to match what the Department of Health has put in. The Minister should guarantee that funding is given immediately to ensure they can make the interventions that are needed. A report has been produced by the Ballymun implementation board, which the Minister has met. This is very recent. Its big concern, having talked to local groups, is that children as young as 11 years old are being groomed into criminal gangs. It details the way young people are being drawn in, gradually and often by economic vulnerability, before incurring drugs debts that are then transferred to the wider family. We need serious action on this."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Jen Cummins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Jen-Cummins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Jen Cummins I welcome Sinn F\u00e9in's work on this Private Members' motion. I am sure what I will say has been echoed in many constituencies around this country. People are terrified in their homes because of drug intimidation. Not only are they terrified in their homes of the threat of violence and petrol bombs, as Deputy Hearne in the context of his constituency, but also their neighbours are terrified because they are wondering if they will pick the wrong house and whether they and their children will die in their beds. I wish to give my sympathies to the English family. I really do not have the words. I cannot imagine what that family are going through and the poor children who are in Crumlin tonight. My thoughts are with them. Three children have died as a result of petrol bombs in the last number of months in this country. This has got to be the moment where we say \"No\". Even three children are too many. Even a threat to any child's safety because of drug intimidation or any type of violence is absolutely out of order. In my constituency of Dublin South-Central, things are very much on edge at the moment. Especially coming up to Hallowe'en, the level of violence, intimidation and antisocial behaviour is off the Richter scale. I wish to pay tribute to the community garda\u00ed, who are doing everything that they can, but there are not enough of them. They are not resourced enough. They need vastly more investment in the number of garda\u00ed who are in the constituency. The community safety partnerships need to be advertised so well. Despite all the years we had the community safety forums, lots of people still do not even they exist. Many TDs are saying if people have issues, they should go to that meeting and raise them. The more we raise what is going on in the community, the more pressure the Government will be under to put more resources in our community. However, that has to be advertised. People are being trapped in their homes by this intimidation. One of things that I found recently is that not only are they trapped in their home, but if they did want to move to have a place of safety, there is nowhere to move to because of the housing crisis in this country. They are stuck there. They are stuck in that situation. As someone who worked with young people such as those Deputy Hearne talked about, I know that Fagin's law does not go far enough. The school completion programme, youth services and schools around this country are losing children and young people every single day to crime. Even when a child is being groomed and Tusla wants to put them in a special care place, we do not have that place. We have a lot of work to do. This is the time when it needs to happen."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Alan Kelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","memberCode":"Alan-Kelly.S.2007-07-23","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Alan Kelly I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for tabling this motion. It was very timely and important that a motion was put down. I am glad because across politics we all need to come together, particularly in light of what has happened. We need to come together, particularly in light of what has happened. Everyone has said this is going to be a watershed moment. I have heard that about many things down through the years. It has happened at times. It happened with Veronica Guerin and with other issues down through the years when it came to criminality. This probably needs to be the Minister's moment to make the changes that need to be made. Changes were made back then by the Minister for Defence and Ruair\u00ed Quinn when he was the Minister for Finance. We need to make a lot of changes, some relating to resources, some of them legislative and some of them involving collective campaigning and leadership. On behalf of the Labour Party, I acknowledge the loss of the members of the English family. Prayers and thoughts go out to the two young children who are in hospital. I also acknowledge the community in Waterford for the way it has rallied around. I spoke to people down there, who are so badly affected. They have come together. It is not every time that someone will stand up in the D\u00e1il Chamber and say this, but I also acknowledge the public representatives from Waterford. They have even exemplary across the board, at all levels and from all parties and none. This is a time when leadership is needed. This was an example where everybody in public life showed huge leadership and I hope that will continue because we need to deal with this issue. I also acknowledge An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, which has my full support in bringing to justice not alone those who are responsible for this but also those who made the decision for this to happen. That is critical. It is nearly more important that we root out those who planned this. It was not their first rodeo. We must also root out those above them who are bringing the drugs into communities, and those above them again. The scourge of drugs is everywhere in our communities. It is in here. When I said that previously I did not realise how much attention it would get. This is a workplace. A large number of people work here. Recreational drug use happens in our midst. It happens not far from where we are sitting and standing. It happens everywhere. That is how prevalent drug use is in this country. It is in every community and sporting organisation. It is everywhere. I do not believe that we realise, or are acting to, the scale of what is out there. It is everywhere. If we are going to deal with this issue, we have to acknowledge the scale of the problem. It is not just a matter of dealing with those who are at high and medium levels of criminality and those who are pushing drugs on the ground. I believe in a health-based system for dealing with those who are users. The Minister might want to reflect on that. I was a little disappointed with what he said recently in that regard. I thought we had all moved on. I respect that we all have a journey to travel. I had to do so. I had to be educated and change my views. I have no problem admitting that. As it comes closer and closer to you as a person, when you become a parent and see this going on all over the country and all over our communities, you have to reassess your views. We have to deal with those who are using drugs through a health-led approach, in the main. A multifaceted approach is needed. We need to help those who are using drugs, cut the supply lines into our country and intercept the international gangs. We need to manage how our police force is funded and resourced to deal with this issue. We need to consider the intelligence the Garda is receiving. There is a serious cross-Border element that we need to consider. There are also issues with the access points around the country for drugs coming in. We also have to consider how those who are carrying out the intimidation and criminal activities are able to do so openly in our towns and villages and in the countryside. I represent a rural area. For many people who come from rural backgrounds and work in agriculture, on farms, on large-scale agricultural projects and in various food-related activities in many rural areas and economies, drug use is as much an issue as it is in urban areas. It is not so obvious to the eye, but it is there. I had to deal with a grandfather who has since passed away. He secretly had to pay off his grandson's debt. Otherwise, it was possible he would have been killed. He paid off debts twice because they came back a second time. That was not in an urban area. It was an isolated house in a rural area of Tipperary. It was not in the inner city of Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford or Galway. The person who was affected got health-related help and has recovered. He is now living quite a good and productive life. If we are going to deal with this, resourcing the Garda is essential. I am supportive of youth diversion and the resourcing of the DRIVE project. I completely agree with my colleague that these are under-resourced. I am supportive of the various organisations in communities. All of that is important. We need a campaign and an educational process. There are organisations in this country that are massive and have impact. My local publican has multiple signs in his pub stating, \"We sell Coke behind the counter. If we catch you, you'll be barred for life.\" It is clear and impactful. He runs his premises in such a way and events are managed in such a way that nobody will try to take cocaine. They might try, but I doubt they are going to get away with it. The point I am getting to is this. We have sporting and cultural organisations and a whole range of other organisations that we need to mobilise. I would love to do so as part of the committee I chair. I would love to see those organisations mobilised in a campaign to denormalise drug-taking in this country and to denormalise its social acceptability. In many social settings, whether in a house, a pub or wherever else, it is okay to take cocaine and other serious drugs. It is simply not okay. However, for some reason, among our middle classes, in particular, it seems to be okay. The Government should lead on the issue. We should ask the powerful large-scale sporting, cultural, industry and agriculture organisations in the country to leverage their memberships and capacity to help us to make it the watershed moment that everyone in this Chamber has spoken about. As politicians, we cannot do this on our own. The Government cannot do this on its own. The Government, working with the Opposition, can help but unless we get all of these organisations and all of these people to work with us, we will not be able to address the root cause of what happened in Waterford. The root cause of what happened in Waterford is that people want to take these drugs. Some of them are in very vulnerable situations and they need health-related help, but others are taking them for different reasons. Young people are taking cocaine because they believe it does not give them calories, does not impact them from a health perspective and does not give them a hangover. This is all utter bull. In the long term, it is still doing them damage and creating an addictive capacity, which is changing their lives. I have seen it. I have seen so many of them in trouble. I have seen people from families who no one would have expected to be affected in the way in which they are. Let this be a watershed moment. As the political class of 2026 in this Chamber, we cannot do it on our own."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Brian Stanley","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Brian-Stanley.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Brian Stanley Across urban and rural Ireland, in all counties, drug barons are using extortion, blackmail and intimidation. It is happening in every parish in Laois, the county I represent. Drug barons are trapping often vulnerable young people into drug use, drug dealing and criminal activity. It is the case that middle-class people use drugs for recreational purposes, but vulnerable young people are also using them. Those people who are using them for recreational purposes should stand back and take a look at themselves. These drug dealers ensnare young people through addiction and debt. These debts are collected through fear, intimidation and extortion. They are often collected outside post offices, banks and places where people receive social welfare payments and pensions. Parents and grandparents, as has been said, are targeted to pay off loans. Loans are got from moneylenders, credit unions and friends to clear drug debts. Layers of interest are added on by dealers and often by illegal moneylenders to pay these debts. In the past week, we have again seen the methods used by these thugs, with tragic consequences for the English family in Waterford. Our thoughts are with them, particularly the two boys in hospital. I hope they recover. Unfortunately, this is not the first time we have seen a situation like this. We had the terrible case of Mary Holt and her little grandson in Edenderry. What happened there was scandalous. Other victims have been brought to isolated areas and shot dead or suffered serious injury. Young people have been stabbed in rows over drug debts in houses and in alleyways. The silence these thugs have created around their despicable criminal activity has to be broken. The Government or the D\u00e1il Chamber cannot do this alone. This requires a whole-of-society approach. The Garda DRIVE initiative is a very good one. It is very welcome but it needs to be beefed up and expanded. I ask that this be done. We need to create a greater awareness of this initiative so that people will go to An Garda a lot earlier. We should prioritise this. We have to get to the point where victims go sooner and share as much information as possible confidentially with An Garda. The Minister will have heard that it is estimated that only one in ten is coming forward, and that is probably a best-case scenario. I welcome the fact that the Minister and the Minister of State are here. It shows that the Department is taking this matter seriously, which some Ministers, unfortunately, do not do. We have to come at this very strongly. Dealers have to be treated as pariahs in local communities, not people with status. The local drug units, which do good work, need to be resourced properly and we need to launch a major crackdown targeting dealers. There is good work ongoing, but we need to add to that work with more Garda units. Responses need to be co-ordinated at local level with garda\u00ed, communities and community groups. I want to raise a pressing issue in this regard. We need to create good joint policing committees. I and other Deputies were on joint policing committees and they worked reasonably well. The only argument I ever made about them was that we should strengthen them further and enhance their role, but the Government abolished them. I do not get any pleasure from saying this, but unfortunately, we have created toothless talking shops called community safety partnerships. These are little more than harmless talking shops. We need proper community safety committees. I do not care what they are called but we need proper committees at local level, with garda\u00ed, community representatives, elected representatives and other interested parties involved. We need to provide support for victimised families and they need protection, where necessary. In serious cases, and as a last resort, that may mean relocation. Obviously, we are failing when we get to that point, but where it has to be done, it should be done. The big message is that we need to break the silence the dealers have created. We need to treat them as unwanted in communities. We need well-resourced Garda drugs units to create a serious crackdown and to step up the crackdown on dealers. We cannot allow these thugs to have any level of local or national control and instil terror in families and communities. We have seen in recent months that even those who are in faraway places and at the top of the tree have been brought to justice, and all of that is welcome. The Government is going after the money and when it does so, it catches people. Everybody needs to pull together in this. We need an all-of-society approach. I hope we can step it up. There has to be a change in gear in terms of how we address what has happened and the terrible events in Waterford. We now need to step up a gear and get on top of this problem."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Seamus Healy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","memberCode":"Seamus-Healy.D.2000-06-22","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Seamus Healy I express my condolences to the English family, their relatives and friends and to the Birchwood community in Waterford arising from the awful events last week. I hope that the two children still in hospital will recover quickly and go home safely. I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this very timely and detailed motion. I also thank the Minister for accepting it. It is important that there is cross-party support for the motion from all parties and none in the House. This issue is widespread across the country. Every TD in the D\u00e1il knows that drugs and drug intimidation are a scourge in every corner of the country, not just in cities and towns but in rural areas as well. I also welcome the DRIVE initiative, which, as the Minister indicated, commenced last year. It is a particularly important development because it is a culture change within An Garda. Maybe I should not say this but I feel I have to. It is not too long ago that I had families coming to me looking for support in this area and telling me that they were being advised by garda\u00ed to pay these debts. Thankfully, that has changed and I hope this initiative will bear fruit in the future. I also agree with previous speakers' points about recreational drug taking. These people bear a heavy responsibility for drug-related crime and intimidation and they need to stand back and take a good look at themselves. The full prevention of drug crime intimidation and antisocial behaviour requires a wide range of social, economic and community actions. These include things like education and training, employment, income, social inclusion, community facilities, policing and addiction and rehabilitation services. Garda policing is one of the most essential and basic elements in tackling this type of crime and antisocial behaviour. There are at least three elements to this Garda involvement. First, of course, is adequate Garda numbers to enable high visibility policing by garda\u00ed on the beat, adequately staffed Garda drug units and a comprehensive community policing service. Community garda\u00ed are absolutely invaluable in building up relationships with communities and with individuals within communities. Crucially, they build up a relationship, trust and friendship with young people. They become involved with local activities, youth clubs, sports clubs and resident associations. They are seen and are active in areas and, thus, prevent crime and, importantly, they identify young people at an early age who might tend to stray. Locals know these garda\u00ed. They know their names and they have their contact details. Unfortunately, all that has been lost and the few community garda\u00ed who are left work above and beyond and are stretched to the limit. The community Garda service has, effectively, been dismantled, especially since the introduction of the new Garda districts. The statistics do not lie. In 2010, we had 1,082 community garda\u00ed. In August of this year, we had 592. In Tipperary, in 2010 we had 108 community garda\u00ed. In August 2026, the Clare and Tipperary Garda division had 18 community garda\u00ed. The community Garda service must be re-established and staffed up to at least the 2010 levels. The small number of Garda drug units and garda\u00ed attached to these units would appear to suggest that the Government is not really taking the whole drug threat seriously. Garda statistics show that nationally there are only 339 attached to these units as of February 2026. The Clare and Tipperary division has only 17 garda\u00ed in these units. That is for an area stretching from Limerick city up to the Galway border and from the bridge in Portumna down to Carrick-on-Suir - an impossible task. The policy in recent years of prioritising Dublin, Cork and Galway for the allocation of newly attested garda\u00ed has made matters considerably worse in rural Ireland and in places like south Tipperary. Last week, 207 garda\u00ed were attested and 160 of those went to Dublin and the east. South Tipperary got the crumbs. It got five garda\u00ed: two in Nenagh, two in Clonmel and one in Tipperary town. That leaves Clonmel Garda station with nine fewer garda\u00ed than it had in 2024. We need to beef up the Garda presence throughout the country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Barry Heneghan) Bogfaimid ar aghaidh go dt\u00ed an Teachta O'Flynn."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ken O'Flynn Philip and Kim English, Callum, aged 12, and Jayden, nine years old, were killed in their own home in Waterford over a debt that was not theirs. In Edenderry, we had a four-year-old child, Tadhg Farrell, and his grand-aunt Mary being killed. I use those names because there are a lot of people out there who would ask that we would not use those names or that we would not to mention them, in particular those gangs that are involved. They want us to forget those names. It is vitally important that these names, and the tragedy that happened in Waterford, in Edenderry, and other events that have happened around the country, leave an indelible mark upon this House. Like everybody on all sides of the House, I have witnessed it in my constituency. I have sat in kitchens with mothers and fathers in floods of tears, not just because their child had a drug problem but because their child was in so much debt. Some of them were serving prison sentences in Cork Prison, some had moved out of the house and some were in homeless accommodation or in homeless services. The then family gets a knock on the door from thugs. That is all they are - absolute thugs. In the case of one particular family in Cork North-Central, who I will not name for obvious reasons, they are using an enforcement group or gang from Dublin to come down. These gangs are working out deals with mothers and fathers, people in their 50s. They are saying to them that if they cannot pay the debt, they will work off the debt, and will either have to get involved in intimidation themselves or start running drugs for the gang, driving cars and delivering here and there. I have had people in floods of tears who have been on to local authorities. They spoke to local authorities to say they need to get out of their property. Local authorities cannot help them because they say they cannot move people because of antisocial behaviour. I have seen garda\u00ed upset and perturbed because they feel under-resourced and not listened to, in particular the liaison garda\u00ed who are working their fingers to the bone. It is all very well for us to get up in this House to say what a shame and what an awful tragedy this is but we need to be moving quicker and stronger. We have to get stronger with the Criminal Assets Bureau. We have to move more powers over to it. These guys are quite often going in collecting their dole on a Wednesday, wearing \u20ac500 sneakers, bracelets, Rolex watches and so on. Why are we not going after them when they have the missus in the car with a designer handbag and no real way of proving how they are on the dole and living a lifestyle like that? They are involved in intimidation. We know them. We have seen them. I have seen them at the doors. Then they are using kids under the age of 18 to firebomb houses, to attack and to threaten people. We have to go after these people. We have to strengthen the powers of the Criminal Assets Bureau to go after those particular small-time drug dealers. What I mean by a small-time drug dealer is a guy who is intimidating for \u20ac20,000 or \u20ac30,000. I had a situation recently in Cork where a young man told me that his dad bailed him out of \u20ac30,000 worth of debt. His father had to borrow, beg and steal to try to find that \u20ac30,000. It is not acceptable. We need to move faster on that."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Michael Collins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Michael-Collins.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Michael Collins I will start by extending my sincere sympathies to the English family on the deaths of Philip, Kim, Callum and Jayden in the horrific happenings of last week. I also extend my sincere sympathies to Kim's family who are from Courtmacsherry in my constituency. It opened our eyes to the dangers of drugs, having being brought up in times when drugs were not a huge issue. It shows the crisis it is now. I was listening to the radio during the week when the intimidation was being spoken about. I listened to a doctor who deals with people in relation to drugs issues. Some Deputies are talk about encouraging small-time drugs here but I wonder is that ever the right road to travel. I think it is clear now that it is not. When you start small, you unfortunately end up in the big game. I heard a doctor say that they go as far as seeing the person they are chasing dead and they continue to try to get their money in whatever way. When the person has passed away, they go to the funeral and threaten the family either in the church or at the funeral home. That is an astonishing situation in which we find ourselves. It tells you that law and order has broken down when people are terrified, afraid to open their mouths and fight back. We need more Garda resources. There is no doubt about that. I have very serious concerns that my constituency has been overlooked for the last three times. I have brought this up with the Minister on numerous occasions, including last week. It has been overlooked in relation to garda\u00ed being appointed to it. We have garda\u00ed who have retired and who are out sick. There are genuine reasons. I do not understand for the life of me why a costal community in the south west where drugs are continuously coming in should be overlooked. There is no point in saying they are not. It is foolish person who would say here, or anywhere else, that this is not happening. We are being left wide open. For some reason, whether because of the Garda Commissioner or the Minister, the allocation of garda\u00ed to west Cork was zero this time. It was zero the last time, the time before and the time before that. I do not understand how anybody thinks a chief superintendent is supposed to fill positions. Is the attitude for Drimoleague and places like that to keep them closed and move on? Scale them down or move on and let the drug guys haul them in left, right and centre and then move on because we do not police our coast. I do not know where the Government is sending them but it is certainly not sending them down to us. For the likes of Kinsale, Bandon, Clonakilty, Bantry, Macroom, Skibbereen, Castletownbere and Schull, our communities deserve the same level and protection and policing as other parts of the country. Rural crime, burglary, drug related offences, antisocial behaviour and road safety concerns do not disappear simply because people live outside our cities. West Cork is a large geographic coastal area with scattered communities and long travel distances. Our garda\u00ed are working hard but they cannot be everywhere. They need support at once and they need reinforcement. I am calling on the Minister for justice and the Garda Commissioner to explain to west Cork why this continues to be overlooked."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Lawless","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Paul-Lawless.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Lawless I send my deepest sympathies to the English family in Waterford. There are two children and their parents dead, with two more children fighting for their life. An innocent family was targeted for a debt that was not theirs. It is the most shocking situation. We will be supporting the Bill and will also support Deputy O'Flynn's amendments on CAB and the child trafficking element too. I am aware of situations in my own constituency of Mayo where young people get addicted to drugs, build up a debt and have then emigrated. The gangs are targeting their families and parents. I am aware of one case where the gangs have targeted a vulnerable aunt and uncle in the family. They arrived at night time into their house with balaclavas and so on. What is happening is absolutely frightening. The saddest thing is that so many families live in fear and do not report for fear of repercussions for their loved one. That is frightening and is happening in so many cases all over this country. We absolutely need to tackle it. We need to address it. We need to introduce a new law as a stand-alone piece of legislation. We absolutely need tougher sentencing. It has been reported that the suspects involved in this case were on temporary release. There have been 1,600 individuals on temporary release in the first six months of 2026. Why is this happening? Because there is no prison capacity. It is operating at 120% capacity. What does it mean to the garda\u00ed who are working so hard to put these individuals behind bars and see them out on temporary release? Sentencing must mean something and crime must have consequences. We are treating the criminal thugs far too leniently. When will there be a new prison? We need to build a new prison and it is high time we treat crime and thugs with the full consequences of the law. The divisional drugs unit does tremendous work but it is simply under-resourced. In the region I am from, the divisional unit of Mayo, Longford and Roscommon has in the region of 12 members of the divisional drug squad across three counties and a massive coastline. I attended an event in Belmullet last year where I was told stories from the drugs squad and all of the other agencies about the drugs that are coming in because of the massive coastline Mayo has. This is simply unacceptable because drugs are terrorising families in terms of drug intimidation but destroying the lives of young people. I believe we also need to tackle this on a societal level. We need to tackle it in schools and clubs. We need to denormalise drug-taking in this country because all of these people are responsible and fuelling what is happening across this country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Sorca Clarke) Before we move on to Deputy Gogarty, has Deputy O'Flynn moved his amendment?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ken O'Flynn","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Ken-O'Flynn.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ken O'Flynn Now there is consensus in the House and the Government is not challenging the motion, I am happy to leave it go ahead at the moment. I ask the Minister to have a read of it when he has a chance."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty I presume some of that time is coming back to me?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Sorca Clarke) Yes."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty Gabhaim bu\u00edochas. The Minister will be aware of the drug related intimidation and violence engagement, DRIVE, report that found there were over 1,000 cases of intimidation in every county between 2024 and 2025. Almost two thirds of the victims lived with family members. Drug debt was a factor in over two thirds of cases, with amounts between \u20ac100 and \u20ac20,000. As Deputy Lawless said before me, a lot of cases are not reported. Recently, I heard through the grapevine of someone over on the northside of the city - not in my constituency - where there were five or six teenagers who rushed into a house past the two grandparents looking for a young lad who owed money for drugs. The grandfather said something and got a whack in the face. He basically got beaten up. They did not report it, to my knowledge, because they were absolutely afraid. That situation is happening across the country. We know there are no consequences for low level antisocial behaviour to catch the hangers-on but this is a higher level of stuff. There need to be serious consequences for those who are abusing young children in this way. There need to be consequences for the young children who think it is the flash thing to do but we obviously need juvenile resources from that point of view as well. Equally, those who can afford to and the more affluent groups in our society who think it is okay to have a social go of cocaine bear responsibility and the Minister said it on media interviews himself. I would like to see consequences for their responsibility because these people should know better and if they are involved in taking cocaine, they are responsible for families like the English family. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family, friends and relatives. They are equally as responsible and they need consequences as well so they are not actually buying into this market."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for bringing forward this very important motion. I also offer my deepest sympathies to the English family. What happened was absolutely horrific. It is difficult to even find words to describe such an appalling attack, particularly when you think of the young people who were caught up in such terrifying violence. Over the past 90 minutes, I have listened to contributions from Members across this House and what struck me was how many families and communities across this country, rural, urban and everywhere, have been living in fear of criminal gangs. As previous speakers highlighted, this attack was not the first and sadly, unless we take stronger action, it will not be the last. What concerns me is the sheer level of control these criminal gangs have over people's lives. I thank the Minister for coming to Dublin Bay North in relation to the action programmes earlier in the year. I know he sees what the youth diversion programme can do and the change it can make if it gets a person at that critical point in their life. In my area, there are families afraid in their homes. Parents are worried about their children. These are decent, law-abiding citizens in north Dublin and this intimidation is not just linked to drugs. We also hear about people being threatened over debts and intimidation extends to relatives who have absolutely nothing to do with those debts. This is an absolute scourge on our society and I am glad to hear the Government is accepting and not opposing this motion. We need to ask ourselves how such gangs are allowed to grow, develop and exercise such power over our communities. I firmly believe part of that is answered in strengthening community policing, roles and garda\u00ed and diversion programmes. I really welcome the allocation of the 18 newly attested garda\u00ed but my one question is over just one garda having been sent to Coolock. I have written to the Minister about this because Coolock Garda station does not just cover Coolock. It covers a lot the areas around it, such as Belmayne, Clongriffin and Artane. Just one additional garda was assigned ahead of Halloween for additional numbers. Speaking to garda\u00ed and families in the area, I urge it be prioritised for the next garda allocation. Criminal gangs cannot be allowed to decide how people live their lives, where they go and whether they feel safe in their own homes. I welcome announcements that the Minister's Department, in conjunction with garda\u00ed, have been tackling the HHC vape scourge that is also being sold across north Dublin. We cannot accept a situation where decent families are living in fear while criminals responsible believe they can act with impunity. I welcome that the HHC vapes which are being sold are being tackled. There are 12-, 13- and 14-year-old boys and girls smoking these vapes, rotting their brains and getting them into that criminal gang. This needed to be tackled and I welcome the work the Minister has done on that. Above all, we need to send a very clear message. It is the criminals who should be leaving in fear of the law, not the ordinary families leaving in fear of the criminals."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Carol Nolan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Carol-Nolan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Carol Nolan I wish to begin by expressing my deepest condolences to the extended English family on the deaths of their family members due to an arson attack. I also remember the two children who are critical in hospital at this time and the grief-stricken community in Waterford. Unfortunately, as has been said here by many TDs, this is too common. It is across the country. My own county of Offaly knows only too well what happens when violent criminality is allowed to take root in a community. The horrific deaths of Tadhg Farrell and Mary Holt in Edenderry remain etched in the memory of our county. While criminal proceedings are ongoing and must take their course, we cannot stand over a situation where communities are left feeling abandoned while criminals spread fear and misery. That is why people will be astonished to learn that County Offaly has received just one additional garda from the most recent allocation. At a time when concerns about drug-related intimidation are increasing, unfortunately, that is all we are being offered. It is not right. I ask for a much bigger allocation and further engagement with the Garda Commissioner because County Offaly needs more resources and garda\u00ed. Areas like Edenderry, which have been left under-resourced for too long, need to be looked after, as do many other areas in the county. Criminal gangs do not operate with one hand tied behind their backs, as we know. Yet, the State continues to ask garda\u00ed to police our communities with inadequate numbers and stretched resources. I am mentioning Edenderry again because it does not have a full-time Garda station and that is not acceptable. A town of its size, a huge town with a growing population, should have a full-time Garda station and I have committed to the people of Edenderry that I would raise that here today. Again, I call on the Minister of State to look at Edenderry Garda Station, and more resources for it and for garda\u00ed across County Offaly. The first duty of any Government is to protect its citizens. Families should not live in fear in their own homes. Parents should not have to worry that their children are being targeted by drug gangs. Elderly people should not have to look over their shoulder because criminals believe they own a housing estate, a street or an entire community. Unfortunately, that is what is happening. The message from this House must be absolutely clear: we will not surrender our towns, villages and housing estates to drug gangs or thugs. We need more garda\u00ed, tougher enforcement, stronger victim supports and real consequences for those who prey on vulnerable families. Fine words are no substitute for action and, of course, the basics have to be in place. The hours of Garda stations have to be increased and there needs to be more visibility. The only way the Garda can ensure increased visibility is by having the resources and the numbers. It is shameful that County Offaly was given just one additional garda, despite what happened in Edenderry last year. Deputy Ken O'Flynn's amendment rightly acknowledges a reality that many families face. The people being terrorised are often not those who incurred the debt but their innocent parents, grandparents or children, and that is what we have seen. The State must ensure that these families can access immediate protection, housing support and a rapid Garda response when criminal gangs come calling. I am calling again here tonight for law and order. People in communities deserve to feel safe; it is a basic right. Unfortunately, they do not and we need increased resources."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Cathal Crowe","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Cathal-Crowe.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Cathal Crowe I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this debate this evening. I am glad this motion has been accepted because I think the Minister and Minister of State can hear, across the Chamber and across the political divide, that there is a common view here. It is a shared experience in every constituency. Like others, at the outset, I wish to express my deepest sympathies to the English family in Waterford. It is absolutely heartbreaking to see four coffins but, in particular, the coffins of those two perfect young boys gone to an early grave. They should be heading into the Hallowe'en break from school next week and enjoying all that would have promised for them. To be going to an early grave is absolutely disgusting. It is so upsetting for the nation and I think it is right that this is all debated here in the House tonight. We must finally shatter the comfortable illusion that casual drug use is a victimless lifestyle choice. It is not harmless. Every single line of cocaine or recreational pill bought in this country directly funds and sustains a multimillion euro criminal enterprise. That casual transaction is a direct investment in a trade that takes many innocent lives with it. The horrific tragedy we witnessed in Waterford shocked the entire nation, as I said, but let us be painfully honest in this Chamber tonight. What happened in Waterford could have happened anywhere in Ireland. Indeed, as the last speaker said, it happened in County Offaly just a few months ago. In my own constituency of Clare, I am told of harrowing, stomach-churning accounts. I have been reliably informed of one gang operating in the west of Ireland that has now resorted to using sexual violence to enforce drug debts. They rape men and women or threaten to rape family members if the debts are not paid. This barbaric cruelty goes entirely unreported because families fear that if they report the rape, they will be murdered. I also know of an equally depraved case of a young man in my own county who had successfully beaten his addiction. He went in for four or five weeks' rehabilitation in a treatment centre. That was successful but because of his recovery, it meant that a lucrative customer was lost to the drug dealer. A few days after returning home, his door was beaten down, he was held down in the hallway of his house and he was injected with heroin because by injecting the heroin, the lucrative customer was back again. That is absolutely disgusting and it is an illustration of the sheer, unadulterated evil we are dealing with here. Meanwhile, in towns and villages across Clare, and this could be anywhere in Ireland, we see dealers living large. They do not hold down employment, yet hard-working residents are expected to ludicrously accept the flashy cars in their driveways, the bling jewellery and the multiple sun holidays. Members of the public are not fools. While there is a really good Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, that investigates those on the front page of the Sunday World and the big-name crime families in Ireland, we are going to need a regional, sub-layer of CAB that looks at that village housing estate and the small-town criminal who is taking his community for a ride. We also need to start treating deaths as a direct consequence of the illicit drug trade as homicide. I refer to people who have died as a result of the direct use of drugs but also people who have taken their lives. I know of several funerals in different parts of the country where someone took their life because they knew if they did not, it was going to be taken for them by thugs within a matter of days. That needs to be treated as homicide when it is being investigated by the Garda. The families and friends of these individuals need to do some deep soul-searching. They need to look at the incredible gifts that are showered on them and ask themselves what is really funding them. Is your son really the great lad you think he is, or is he a monster, wrecking lives and taking young people's lives with him? Some politicians also need to stop fraternising with the drug-dealing community. We must take back our communities and resource our Garda. We need to expand CAB and reclaim our streets."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Catherine Ardagh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","memberCode":"Catherine-Ardagh.S.2016-04-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration (Deputy Catherine Ardagh) I thank Sinn F\u00e9in for tabling the motion today. I have listened to the debate in this House and to Members' sincerity and informed contributions. As the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, and other Deputies stated, we are seeing a united approach to these egregious crimes being committed across our constituencies. I wish to send my condolences to the English family and the wider Companjen family on the deaths of Kim, Philip, Jayden and Callum. Our immediate thoughts are with Nadia and Elliot, who are in Crumlin children's hospital fighting for their lives. These serious arson attacks are becoming more rampant across our communities. Many of us have spoken to constituents who have either been victims of these crimes or are dealing with family members who are the victims of these crimes. In our own constituency, Deputy \u00d3 Snodaigh and I have seen people who have been the victims of mistaken identity whose houses were petrol-bombed. We had three instances of petrol-bombing in Dublin South-Central in the past four weeks. The Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, and I know the seriousness, and the insidious and hidden nature of this issue. As was pointed out, not everyone is reporting these crimes; they are afraid to report them. A message that has to come out of the House today is that people should please report the crimes. An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na is there and is resourced. It wants to hear about these crimes and act on them. Please trust An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to act on these crimes. We know that drug-related intimidation extends far beyond those directly involved in drug use. I have dealt with parents, grandparents, siblings and other innocent family members who have been threatened and targeted over alleged drug debts. Organised crime groups deliberately use fear, violence and intimidation to exert control over our communities, but we will have zero tolerance for drug debt-related intimidation. It is our aim that no family, community or person should live in fear of this. I hope this will be a watershed moment. We will and have been targeting top-level criminals. We are determined to target the gangs that are thriving in our communities, the organisers and financiers at a much higher level. We have to ensure that the victims and families are at the centre of everything we do in terms of victim protection. As others have said, we have to follow the money. We have been really successful. It was after Veronica Guerin's tragic death that we established the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB. It is something other countries look at and it is hugely successful, but it has to be extended. We have to consider a mini-CAB because we are seeing people going around wearing designer handbags and driving luxury cars in a manner clearly associated with a life of criminality. We have to ensure we break the cycle. The message has to come from this House that we stand with victims and will not tolerate this type of egregious crime. We are determined to ensure that those who are involved in criminality are relentlessly pursued by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, prosecuted and convicted, and deprived of all the profits they sustain from these awful and harrowing activities that have destroyed families across the country and those living in our communities. There is absolutely no place in our country for this type of uncivilised behaviour. We will absolutely not accept it. As the Minister pointed out, law enforcement is central to our response, but enforcement alone cannot address the harm caused by drug-related intimidation. That is why the Government is pursuing a dual strategy, relentlessly targeting organised crime groups while ensuring individuals and families affected by intimidation can access practical support and protection. I reiterate our call to please report these terrible crimes and intimidation. In addition, we are building resilience, strengthening trust and ensuring people know that support is available when they need it. Just last month, Operation Tara, an intelligence-led operation involving the Garda National Drugs and Organised Crime Bureau and regional Garda units, resulted in the seizure of cocaine worth approximately \u20ac1.6 million, heroin valued at over \u20ac500,000, cash and vehicles, along with multiple arrests. Operation Tara is just one example of the ongoing work taking place every day across our country. The Government's message is clear. Those who engage in intimidation, extortion or violence will face the full force and rigour of the law. Resourcing is reflected in our recent budget. The commitment provides an additional \u20ac167 million for An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na, bringing the overall Garda budget to \u20ac2.7 billion. There is support for the recruitment of up to 1,000 new garda\u00ed next year, and to strengthen both front-line and specialist policing capabilities. This brings our force to a total of nearly 14,828, including 27 garda\u00ed for Waterford last Friday. While enforcement is critical, we also have to recognise that drug-related intimidation presents unique challenges. It inflicts profound harm on individuals and communities. Victims often feel isolated, frightened and unaware. The Government's national drugs strategy provides a comprehensive framework for tackling the harms associated with drug use, including drug-related intimidation and violence. Other Members referred to drug-related intimidation and violence engagement, DRIVE. This is one of the central elements of the Government's drug-related intimidation response. It is a national interagency initiative that supports individuals and communities affected by drug-related intimidation and drug threats. The Government remains fully committed to expanding this work, and budget 2027 provides an additional \u20ac300,000 in recurring funding, doubling investment in the programme and supporting its continued expansion across the country. One of the most disturbing aspects of organised crime is the exploitation of children and young people. As many Members know, I have responsibility for youth justice. We know that criminal gangs deliberately target vulnerable young people and seek to draw them into criminality, including intimidation, and debt. This exploitation of our beautiful children, mostly boys, will not be tolerated. The Criminal Justice (Engagement of Children in Criminal Activity) Act provides new tools to target those who groom, recruit or exploit children for criminal purposes. Alongside this, the response includes continued investment in youth justice, with youth diversion receiving an extra \u20ac11.5 million in the recent budget, bringing the total funding to over \u20ac50 million. This includes funding the nationwide network of 92 youth diversion projects and four specialised youth diversion projects around the country, including two further targeted youth diversion projects. These services have practical interventions for young people. We know that youth diversion works and it will be supported. We must also recognise that community safety cannot be delivered by just one agency. We must see an intergovernmental approach. We are working with local community safety partnerships, the Garda, the HSE, Tusla, community organisations, residents, communities and education to bring that all together. By bringing together local knowledge, public services and community leadership, we can develop responses that are tailored to meet local needs and focus on prevention as well as enforcement. The Government also wants to send a clear message to victims and families that help is available. No family should feel abandoned. No parent should feel they have nowhere to turn. Anyone who becomes the target of drug-related intimidation should immediately report it to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. As the Garda Commissioner has repeatedly emphasised, garda\u00ed have the expertise, powers and resources to support and protect victims, but they can only act on the information they receive. Finally, I would like to address to the issue of casual drug use. As others have stated, casual drug use is not a victimless crime. I urge anyone who uses illegal drugs to reflect carefully on the consequences of their choice. Let me be absolutely clear. Those who purchase illicit drugs are helping to fund the very criminal network that inflicts fear, harm and devastation on our communities. Such purchasing bankrolls the organised crime groups that prey on vulnerable people and children. It undermines our community safety, and profits from other people's human misery. The Government condemns those who use violence, threats and intimidation to control communities. We stand with victims and families affected by these crimes all across the country. They do not discriminate. We remain committed to a comprehensive response that combines strong law enforcement with practical supports, prevention measures, community resilience and sustained investment. Together we can ensure that organised criminal groups do not dictate the future of our communities, that victims receive the support they deserve and that every person can feel safe where they live, work and raise a family."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Donnelly","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Paul-Donnelly.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Donnelly I offer my condolences to the English family and express my hope that the two children who are fighting for their lives will recover. No matter what, their lives will never be the same again. In my community over the past two years, over 15 homes have been burned to the ground. Many others have been damaged, shot at, attacked or had windows smashed. Thankfully, we have not had what we have seen in Waterford. I personally know of a family who have had to pay over \u20ac50,000 to drug dealers. Many others are paying up to hundreds of euro every single week. I have met families who have had to uproot themselves from their communities after living in them for 40 years. Others who cannot leave have to sit night after night with fire extinguishers at the ready, sleeping in shifts. It is becoming normalised. Drug debt intimidation is nothing new in our communities. It is a daily occurrence and has been for years. Those of us who have worked on the front line in family support, drug services and rehabilitation know that we cannot police ourselves out of this situation, but for now we need a dedicated policing response to help our communities feel safe. While we are calling for a Garda response, I note that hundreds of garda\u00ed are brought in from stations across Dublin to police the EU Presidency and no overtime has been spared. Our community would love to see that sense of urgency and unlimited overtime on our streets. I have again and again in our community raised the issue of a gang dealing openly in broad daylight, sucking younger and younger people into drug dealing and criminality. We are watching this every day. Across Dublin West, drug gangs feel untouchable and are operating with impunity. In the long term, we need a trauma-led response and to get in there early to work with families and young people through our youth and counselling services. We need to keep young people in school and provide decent housing and jobs. The youth service in Blakestown and Mountview spent a huge amount of time and energy looking for funding to work with young people and was a few weeks ago denied it for the very outreach teams we are looking for. I urge that we look at that type of funding for those projects."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Ruair\u00ed-\u00d3-Murch\u00fa.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Ruair\u00ed \u00d3 Murch\u00fa We have had the slaughter of a family, Philip, Kim, Callum, and Jaden, and all our thoughts are with Nadia and Elliot. We need to ensure that both the caring and policing resources required are provided. This is not the first time any of us has had to deal with the issue of organised drug criminality and the violence that stems from it, whether we are talking about intimidation, threats, violence, destruction of property, injury or death. In Waterford, what we had was a family wipeout. It happened so somebody could profit off the back of drug dealing and a debt that they allowed a family member to rack up. That is actually better business than straight drug dealing. We have all seen it too many times before. I welcome the Minister's statement that this is a watershed moment. We can all talk of what happened to Tadhg Farrell and Mary Holt when they were slain in Edenderry. Maybe that and many other cases should have been the starting point, but we have to start from somewhere. This is not the first time I have brought up the issue of drug criminality with the Minister, yet we have got nowhere in relation to it. We need to have a very real conversation. I am fully into trauma-informed, health-led harm reduction and making sure we do not jam our courts with young people with serious addiction problems when we need to give them support. However, we are talking about people who engage in sexual exploitation who have been able to operate for years, and huge criminal networks and muscle. In most cases, they have become much cleverer and much more discreet in how they operate. We all know this goes on in every estate and every one of our towns. We know this is across the board. We know people who have been dealing drugs for years, and while I have seen great work done by the Garda, we are nowhere near dealing with this. We need wider family supports and all of the other things I have spoken before about."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Dessie Ellis","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Dessie-Ellis.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Dessie Ellis Drug-related deaths and intimidation in areas like Finglas and Ballymun have been going on for years. Criminal gangs are targeting families over drug debts acquired by a member of the family or a close relative. The intimidation tactics include physical assaults, property damage and attacks on the family home, with windows being broken, cars being burnt out and homes being petrol-bombed. Criminal groups are increasingly shifting the burden of a relative's drug debt onto parents, spouses and even grandparents, and are using threats and fear tactics to extract money to pay for their relative's drug debt. Parents have gone as far as having to remortgage their homes to pay off a drug debt. Many incidents of intimidation go unreported for fear of repercussions and are not even recorded. What compounds this is the low number of prosecutions of those involved in the intimidation. Often, young people with drug debts are exploited by drug gangs and pressurised into holding and delivering drugs, collecting money and carrying out acts of intimidation. There have also been cases where families are targeted in a case of mistaken identity. Recently, a house in Meakstown was petrol bombed and the family, who had no connection with drugs or the drug trade, barely escaped with their lives, having to make their escape by climbing out the windows of the house. Even after the tragedy in Waterford, a house was targeted in Finglas and firebombed. Areas like Finglas and Ballymun suffer from a lack of visible, dedicated policing. This has a real impact in areas where drug dealing is visible and pervasive and it negatively impacts on the confidence local communities have in An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na to tackle this criminal activity. The tragedy in Waterford should be a wake-up call to the Government and also to those who buy and use drugs. Drug dealers have shown time and again that they do not care who gets in their way."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Sorca Clarke Far too many lives have been lost or destroyed due to drug-related intimidation and it is my firmly-held belief that each and every one of those deaths should have been a watershed moment. Across counties Longford and Westmeath, I see individuals and communities being absolutely terrorised. There is no other way of describing it. Our Circuit Court in Mullingar recently heard of teenagers trapped in drug debt. They were being used to attack homes, burn cars and fire a shotgun. The judge in that case likened those exploiting these young people to Fagin, though he described them as being far more sinister and a lot more dangerous. No area is safe from these predators and anybody who thinks that they are safe is delusional. It is happening everywhere. I have met families who have taken out loans, emptied savings accounts and sold their homes in order to pay drug debts. These people tell me they feel preyed upon and alone and that they do not have trust that the judicial system will be there to have their back. We absolutely need a crackdown by An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na on those at the top to go after the profits and assets they have made out of this trade, but we will not police our way out of this. We need stronger communities. We need better investment in the Garda and in addiction, as well as family supports and youth services, particularly in areas where there is that additional vulnerability of deprivation. I will finish with another reflection on a court case in my area involving alleged attacks to crack the skull of a 70-year-old woman. This woman's daughter was also threatened and her car vandalised. Hundreds of euro of damage was done to her home. That woman suffers from heart failure. The alleged perpetrator in that instance is 16. He was given bail. The debt was \u20ac50. That lady stood in court and spoke very clearly when she said, \"I am afraid.\" Those three words are going to be repeated in every single one of our constituencies until we put a hard stop to drug-related intimidation. Nobody should be living in fear. No 70-year-old woman should stand in court and say, \"I am afraid.\""},{"speaker":{"showAs":"David Cullinane","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"David-Cullinane.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy David Cullinane The Minister of State said in her closing remarks that the Government wants to send the clear message to victims and families that help is available and that no family should feel abandoned and no parent should feel they have nowhere to turn. She said that anyone who becomes the target of drug-related intimidation should report it to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na. I echo the call that people should come forward to An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and report any crime, including, of course, drug-related intimidation. However, the problem is that families feel abandoned and that is because of fear. Even when families come forward to the Garda, that fear is heightened because they feel they may be targeted. The Minister of State said no parent should feel they have nowhere to turn but many families feel exactly that because they have watched as other families were victimised and terrorised, with their homes targeted. As we tragically saw in County Waterford, people have lost their lives. While the Government has to send a very clear message to the victims of crime, we have to send a much tougher message to the perpetrators of those crimes. That message has to be very clear, that there is no hiding place for them, the full force of the law will be brought to bear on all of those criminal gangs and the State will hunt them down, if that is what is necessary, and make sure they are brought to justice. I finish by commending An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na and the superintendent and chief Superintendent, whom I spoke to at the funeral yesterday. They said there will be more arrests, no stone will be left unturned and An Garda S\u00edoch\u00e1na will do everything and anything to bring the perpetrators of those four murders to justice. That is what we all want to see, but we want to see it for every single one of those criminal gangs that are doing what they are doing across the State."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question put and agreed to."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Drug Debt Related Intimidation and Community Safety: Motion [Private Members]"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_23","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_24","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Departmental Bodies","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_23","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_24","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_24.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh Ar dt\u00fas b\u00e1ire, gu\u00edm biseach ar an Aire, an Teachta O\u2019Donovan, a bh\u00edonn anseo de ghn\u00e1th. T\u00e1 s\u00fail agam go mbeidh s\u00e9 anseo ag troid linn ar\u00eds amach anseo. This question concerns the agencies under the Department's aegis that have basically had a real-time cut in Budget 2027. Where does the Minister of State expect those cuts to be?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport (Deputy Charlie McConalogue) We all join this evening in sending our best wishes to the Minister, who obviously cannot be here. I am taking questions on his behalf. We wish him a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing him back here as soon as possible. The Budget 2027 allocation to the Department is set out at a programme level in the expenditure report published by the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation. The total allocation to the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport for 2027 is \u20ac1.296 billion. This comprises \u20ac848 million in current funding and \u20ac450 million in capital funding. This allocation provides for a full year of the permanent basic income for arts; increased funding for the Arts Council and Sport Ireland; support for the Ryder Cup and UEFA Euro 2028; the development of IE Alert, which is the new public warning system; and continued investment in the media sector. The overall increase in current expenditure allocated to the Department in Budget 2027 over the allocation in the 2026 Revised Estimates volume was just under 2.7%. There were a number of once-off allocations in 2026 with regard to the EU Presidency and the additional pay fortnight. Taking those into account, the increase for the Department for 2027 is 4.2% before the application of the expenditure levy. In terms of capital funding, the allocation for next year broadly reflects the NDP allocations, in particular the completion of the build stage of the national broadband plan and the fact that Shared Island funding is not allocated until the Revised Estimates Volume for the Public Service process is completed. Allocations to each subhead as part of the budget process were made based on the total available funding in the context of the competing demands across the Department. Final allocations for 2027 will be published as part of the Revised Estimates Volume later this year and then notified to bodies and agencies under the Department's aegis."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh Inflation for 2026 is 4% so if one only increases any budget by less than that, there has to be a cut just to stand still so there is no increase involved. If the Minister of State said that the budget for the Department is a 2.7% increase, that is not an increase in real terms. He went on to say that there was one-off expenditure. There is also one-off expenditure in next year's budget. The Minister of State even listed it. If we take this out, we will still end up with a minus budget for the arts in real terms rather than a plus one. There has been no increase for TG4 - not even a 2.7% increase - so what is the story there? Where will the cut happen in TG4?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue Across Government over the course of this past budget, a very strong effort was made to ensure value for money across all Departments and to ensure that overall Government spending is maintained at a maximum of 6%. Regarding my Department's funding for 2027, when one takes out the exceptional items from last year, which included the EU Presidency, which had significant funding requirements in preparation for this six-month period and over the six-month Presidency, and the exceptional situation facing all Departments this year involving an additional pay run in 2026 - an additional pay fortnight - we were just around the 4% mark with 4.2% before taking into account the expenditure levy. There has been significant increases in funding for TG4 over the past number of years. I think there has been an increase of around 75% since 2020. We continue to support the really important work TG4 does."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh TG4 has spoken for itself. It was encouraged to set out an annual plan to grow and create more content and now it is being told that it will be getting a cut because that is what it is in real terms rather than the \u20ac11 million it needed to achieve next year's growth, which it laid out to the Government and which was accepted as far as TG4 was aware. There was a plan for the next three years. The same is true of the Arts Council. It was given an increase of \u20ac2.5 million rather than the \u20ac3.5 million that would leave it standing still so, again, that means a cut. This year's budget for the basic income for the arts will not even be spent so a single year is allocated for next year. If it is going to be the same then the budget in that instance will not be spent."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue The basic income for the arts was a really significant departure in terms of budgeting for next year because it is the first time that we have a permanent basic income for the arts scheme, which is really significant. It is very significant for the arts across the country and is recognised across Europe as the first scheme of its type. Across the rest of the Department, within that overall increase of 4%, we have sought to make sure that it has as much impact as it possibly can. There is no doubt that when one looks at all of the different asks we have received from different agencies under our remit, the asks will be much higher than what was going to be possible in the budget. Our objective in respect of the increase we received this year is to ensure that we have the biggest and most significant impact for the public that are served so well by so many of our agencies be it TG4 or any of our other agencies, which do exceptional work."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Departmental Bodies"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_25","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Raidi\u00f3 Teilif\u00eds \u00c9ireann","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_23","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_25","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_25.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rory Hearne Many people in RT\u00c9 and across the wider production sector were shocked when the budget allocation was announced. It was \u20ac20 million short of the multiannual funding agreed, putting a new studio, various productions and jobs in jeopardy. I understand that the Minister has met with RT\u00c9 since then. Can the Minister of State tell the House whether funding will be restored to RT\u00c9, under what conditions if any and whether restored funding is conditional on involuntary redundancies?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I propose to take Questions Nos. 117 and 119 together. The overall budget allocation to the Department for 2027 was set out in the public expenditure report published on budget day. The Minister and I set out further details at our press conference on Wednesday, 7 October. As was outlined by the Minister at that time, the allocations to each public body or initiative under the Department's remit were based on the total available funding in the context of the competing demands across the Department. For the broadcasting and media programme area, a key priority was to consolidate the gains made in recent years. More than \u20ac356 million is being allocated to this area next year. Of this amount, \u20ac240 million was secured for RT\u00c9. This included an additional \u20ac11 million in Exchequer funding to make up for a projected fall of this amount in licence fee receipts in 2027. To be clear, the Minister sought \u20ac260 million for RT\u00c9, which would have required a \u20ac30 million increase in Exchequer funding, to cover both the projected fall in licence fee revenue and an increase of \u20ac20 million over the 2026 level. Given the total allocation that was provided to the Department, this was not possible and the Minister had to make difficult decisions in balancing the competing needs for additional funding across the Department. While being guided primarily by the overall current funding available, there was regard to the pace of reform at RT\u00c9 as one factor in this assessment. It has to be acknowledged that RT\u00c9 has delivered and continues to deliver on its reform commitments. At the same time, it must also be acknowledged that the pace of the reform is not what RT\u00c9 originally set out. Notwithstanding this and, as the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, announced after meeting with the chair and director general of RT\u00c9 on Thursday, 8 October, assurances were provided on delivery of reform and there will be continued engagement with RT\u00c9 over the coming weeks."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rory Hearne I also pass on my best wishes to the Minister; I hope he makes a speedy recovery. Unfortunately, that response did not give clarity. N\u00edl aon soil\u00e9ireacht anseo ar chor ar bith. The Minister said the reason was performance related. In advance of the budget when the Minister asked the Department of public expenditure for the \u20ac20 million, no performance issues are raised and were only raised at a press conference the day after the budget. We still do not know where the extra \u20ac20 million which was granted went. While the Minister has met with RT\u00c9 and the meeting was described as constructive, we still do not know if the \u20ac20 million will be restored. If so, when will it be restored? Cathain a dh\u00e9anfar \u00e9 a athch\u00f3iri\u00fa? Crucially if the issue is that RT\u00c9 has not reduced headcount fast enough through voluntary redundancies, will the Government demand headcount be reduced by involuntary redundancies as a condition for restoring funding or will it simply avoid this issue and demand a cut in headcount knowing that would mean staff being made redundant involuntarily?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joanna Byrne As has already been said, no organisation can operate effectively without clarity on its budget. This announcement of a \u20ac20 million cut to RT\u00c9 came as a complete shock to it and to everybody else. I am not any clearer than my colleague after the Minister of State's statement as to the reasons. Ambiguous statements and quotes about difficult decisions just do not cut it. Is there genuine discontent with RT\u00c9 in the Government? He talked about reforms, acknowledgement of reforms but reforms not at the pace that was committed to. We absolutely need clarity on this and whether this funding is secure for RT\u00c9 or not. The European Broadcasting Union is deeply concerned by this decision to cut the funding. The RT\u00c9 unions, its workers and everyone connected to our national broadcaster have expressed their concerns. They need that clarity."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I thank Deputies Hearne and Byrne. As I laid out in my response, there is no doubt that RT\u00c9 is progressing with reforms even though the pace of reform has not been as initially set out. We would like to see those progressed at pace. As I also laid out in my response, \u20ac260 million was sought as part of the budgetary process but that was not possible given the overall context of the budget challenges we had. The pace of reform was also a consideration. There has been really good engagement between the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, and RT\u00c9. He met the director general and chair of RT\u00c9 for a very constructive meeting. As the Taoiseach said, the Government wants to see the agreement with RT\u00c9 honoured and followed through by both the Government and RT\u00c9. That obviously requires RT\u00c9 to step forward in relation to pace of the reforms and the delivery of those reforms. The Government will engage very constructively with RT\u00c9 in relation to working on the agreement and following through on the agreement we signed up to. There will continue to be constructive engagement about that. Any progress on this is contingent on seeing those reforms implemented. We all agree on the absolute importance of a strong public service broadcaster in this country. RT\u00c9 has been intrinsic to the development of our State and ensuring that the public has fair and impartial information, and programming that reflects our culture, our politics and our society. That will be as important in the years ahead as it has been in the development of the State up to now given the wider environment in which we operate. It is important that we work together with RT\u00c9, that we have a good strong funding model in place and that we have constructive engagement, which is what we have and which we will continue to build on."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Rory Hearne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Rory-Hearne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Rory Hearne I am still no clearer on whether RT\u00c9 has this \u20ac20 million or not? Was this a solo run by the Minister or is this the Government's position? As it is clear that RT\u00c9 has not received the \u20ac20 million, where is it? It did not go to F\u00eds \u00c9ireann and it did not go to TG4, which also actually effectively received a cut in its funding. C\u00e1 ndeachaigh an t-airgead? It did not go to the Arts Council, so where has it gone? Were these issues in relation to performance raised before the budget? If that is why RT\u00c9 was not given the guaranteed funding, why did the Minister write to the Minister for public expenditure a week before the budget to ask for the \u20ac20 million that he subsequently withheld? It has been two weeks and the Government has still not been straight on this. The Minister of State is absolutely right that RT\u00c9 is fundamental to the future of broadcasting. For the sake of civil society and social cohesion it is crucial that we have a public broadcaster that can do its work and counter disinformation. Unfortunately, this does not help that and the Government needs to be very clear as to what has happened to that \u20ac20 million and that RT\u00c9 gets it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I have laid out very clearly that there were two aspects to the budgetary position: first, the challenges in relation to the overall budgetary envelope; and, second, the pace of delivery of reform by RT\u00c9. The Government would like to see the three-year agreement made with RT\u00c9 honoured by both sides. Obviously, that is contingent on the delivery of those reforms and the pace of those reforms. The Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, has had and will continue to have very constructive engagement with RT\u00c9 on that. We want to see a public service broadcaster that serves the needs of our country. That funding certainty needs to be in place. There is the discussion in relation to the television licence fee revenue. I think all of us in this House would encourage the public to pay the television licence fee and continue to subscribe. More people in the country are now buying a Netflix subscription than purchasing a television licence. I think we are all in agreement about the very strong role that RT\u00c9 programming plays in our national life. It is important for that to be well funded, with the independent television licence revenue going towards that as well. It is important that the public support it in that way given that they are clearly showing a willingness to engage by actually purchasing programming. No programming is more important than our national programming and the wonderful service that RT\u00c9 provides. It is important that it provides that along with public service funding provision that we have across other media providers across the State. The Government values the role that RT\u00c9 plays. We will continue to engage constructively with it. We want to see the agreements that we have with RT\u00c9 honoured by it as well as us engaging with it in relation to supporting it financially."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Raidi\u00f3 Teilif\u00eds \u00c9ireann"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_26","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Funding","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_23","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_23","showAs":"Ceisteanna ar Sonra\u00edodh Uain D\u00f3ibh - Priority Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_26","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_26.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joanna Byrne I also extend my best wishes to the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan; I wish him a speedy recovery. How does the Minister intend to clear the backlog in the approved applications for the large-scale sport infrastructure fund considering the abysmal allocation in the budget this year?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I thank Deputy Byrne for her question and I also thank her for her good wishes to the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan. The large-scale sport infrastructure fund, LSSIF, was established under the national sports policy to provide Exchequer support for large-scale sports facility projects and to address what had been up to that point a significant gap in public funding of projects of scale. The total allocation made under the large-scale sport infrastructure fund in 2020, which was under the 2018 round of applications, and then again in 2024 for that year's round is in total now \u20ac297 million across 68 projects. There is currently no approval backlog under the large-scale infrastructure fund and no grantee is currently awaiting payment. A sum of \u20ac39 million has been allocated for the large-scale infrastructure fund for next year and it is anticipated that this will be sufficient to cover the drawdown demand in 2027 based on my Department's assessment of the current pipeline of projects. Under the LSSIF 2018, we saw \u20ac86.5 million awarded to 33 projects. Additional funding of \u20ac37.5 million was subsequently allocated to 27 of these projects in December 2023, bringing the total awarded under the LSSIF for 2018 to \u20ac124 million. Grants totalling \u20ac173 million, benefiting 35 individual projects, were allocated under the second round in 2024. No payments have yet been made under the 2024 round as projects progress through the approval gates required by the infrastructure guidelines published by the Department of public expenditure and reform. With regard to a future round of the large-scale infrastructure fund, I am committed to ensuring sustained investment in sports facilities to meet our ambitious goals for sports participation nationwide. The programme for Government commits to maintaining sports funding to get more people participating in all levels of sport. It is our objective to be in a position to run a new round in 2028."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joanna Byrne The Government has to get real and acknowledge that at the rate it is going it will never clear the approved LSSIF applications. This year's budget is just shameful. The Minister of State talks about there being no backlog, yet the Department is not meeting the demand of the applications. Every sporting organisation in this country, including the FAI and the GAA, has report after report, many endorsed by the Government, such as the Swim Ireland report A Pool Within Reach, that details the real need for investment in large-scale sporting infrastructure in Ireland. We are way behind our peers in Europe when it comes to delivering this infrastructure. This Government cannot even acknowledge the shortfall in investment, and going by its budget 2027 allocation, will never address it. All we will see is endless announcements that do not transpire into anything. This scheme is too important to play politics with. Sports clubs right around this country, in every city, town, village and rural area, are being short-changed. That is the reality of the situation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue So far we have had funding and grants committed to 68 projects. From a Government point of view, we want to see those projects move forward. It is the role of either the national sporting bodies or the local authorities that have made those applications to move them forward. The officials in my Department are working with them to try to make sure that they are expedited and that they get into delivery. We want to see them delivered. We have provided so far the capital funding required to make sure that all projects are moving. As I said, no project is awaiting funding. We are working with all those in the most recent round to make sure that they move forward and get into funding. Looking across the country, we have seen many projects delivered that would not have been possible in the absence of the large-scale infrastructure fund, whether that is, for example, the Dundalk leisure centre in the Deputy's constituency, the St. Conleth's Park GAA facility in Kildare, the Charlesland athletics track, Munster Rugby Centre of Excellence or the Askeaton Pool and Leisure centre complex in Limerick. Many projects come through, and we want to see all of them work their way through the system and we want to fund them as required as they come forward."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joanna Byrne I acknowledge that many projects have come through, and they are all very worthwhile and worthy projects, but some of the approved projects have been sitting there since 2018, with nine construction projects approved under the 2018 round yet to commence. The Minister of State stands here today talking to me about opening a new round in 2028. The Department has not cleared 2018, it cannot meet the demand of 2024 and we are supposed to believe this pie-in-the-sky new round of 2028. It is ludicrous. I think the Department is just burying its head in the sand when it comes to this. We need real investment. If we are serious about supporting sport, we need sporting infrastructure that caters for our sports, and we cannot do that without significant investment."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue We are meeting the demand-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joanna Byrne It is \u20ac165 million. You are not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue -----and funding every project that has come forward."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Joanna Byrne","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Joanna-Byrne.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Joanna Byrne You are not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue It is not the Government that is delivering the projects on the ground, though; it is mainly local authorities or national sporting bodies. We are working with them to press that they actually move on and deliver them. The projects the Government is moving forward and directly delivering include, for example, two projects on the national sports campus, the development of the new velodrome and badminton centre and the development of the new national cricket ground. Both projects are under way. We also want to see these large-scale infrastructure projects across the country actually progress. We have funded 68 of them. It is now up to those 68 different projects to get moving and to get into production. We want to see them in production. We will support them with the funding to move on. We are pressing them to get moving and to get into production. We look forward to undertaking a new round in 2028 for more projects to come forward but we expect all those that have been funded and awarded funding to move on and get into delivery. I think all of us want to see them delivered in our local communities."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question No. 119 taken with Question No. 117."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","debateType":"questions","bill":null,"showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_28","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Facilities","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_28","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_28.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan Across north Dublin, clubs are reaching out to me with difficulties with all-weather pitches. At the start of the year we saw one of the worst wet seasons we have had. I have heard from girls, boys and coaches. All matches have been cancelled due to north Dublin's lack of all-weather pitches. I know more has gone in and I welcome the work of Dublin City Council parks and local reps on the recently opened facility in Stardust Memorial Park, but there is a lot more to be done. I ask for an update on the plans."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I know this is something Deputy Heneghan is passionate about and I was glad to visit some local clubs with him in the last few months. I look forward to seeing clubs progress under the next round of the community sport facilities fund. While neither of my Department's sports capital funding programmes, which are the community sport facilities fund and the large-scale infrastructure fund, provides for the acquisition of land, which is something we have discussed in the House previously, we certainly support local authorities in acquiring those lands and working with clubs, particularly for the development of AstroTurf and all-weather surfaces. I think we would all agree, particularly given the last winter we had, that it is really important we develop more of those facilities across the country. On 2 October, my Department published the information guide for the 2026 round of the community sport facilities fund. That guide highlights the recognised need for all-weather field sport facilities to provide certainty of games and training opportunities. I hope now to see local authorities and sports national governing bodies and clubs submitting applications in this regard under the new regional tier 2 grant category, which has been introduced on a pilot basis. The new sport facilities fund grant portal, SPRAOI, opened for applications yesterday, Monday, and will remain open until the end of February. The national development plan provides a significant level of capital investment for sport for the period 2027 to 2030, with over \u20ac500 million allocated for that period. Specific allocations for each year, including for the community sport facilities fund, were published as part of the Revised Estimate Volume. In line with previous rounds, it is proposed to assess the level of demand following the closure of applications at the end of February. Following on from that assessment, my Department will engage with the Department of public expenditure in the context of the Department's capital envelope under the national development plan to work to ensure that we can fund as many new projects across the country as possible and, particularly, that we can see more AstroTurf and all-weather facilities developed in the Deputy's area as well as in other parts of the country."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan I welcome the new community sport facilities fund, especially that large-scale grant, but the real challenge for community clubs is when they lack the resources or the lease to apply for it. I know the Minister of State has acknowledged that. What I would really like for my constituency is a clear list of all the proposed or local authority-proposed all-weather pitches in north Dublin and the funding allocation and delivery timeline for each project. Perhaps Dublin City Council, Fingal County Council and all sporting bodies, working together, could identify these suitable sites and we could have schools, football clubs and GAA clubs working together with disability organisations and older people's organisations. A lot of community groups can avail of these sports facilities. Games have all been called off. I know there were issues with Part 8 applications in some of the councils, but it is not really acceptable. We talk constantly in this House about preventing crime when one of the best things we can do is allow young kids to play sports. What we need to do is get them to play sports, and to get them to play sports they need pitches. All the games are called off."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I recently met with the CEO of Dublin City Council, Richard Shakespeare, and some of his key team to discuss the community sport facilities fund round in order that we can all work collectively together to try to make sure that local authorities, clubs and national sporting bodies are working closely together. I have travelled the country over the last year to meet with clubs to get an assessment of the challenges they face and to get their feedback on recent rounds of the community sport facilities fund to make sure that we are meeting their needs as best as possible as to how we structure this round. I refer to two cases in particular in relation to the \u20ac550,000 regional application maximum fund, which is available to clubs where clubs work together, and the new tier we have introduced, which has a maximum of \u20ac750,000. A local authority or a national sporting body has to apply for that. What we are trying to achieve there is that collaboration and those multisport facilities coming together, facilitated by local authorities and national sporting organisations. Ideal for that is the likes of large-scale all-weather surfaces where everyone can benefit from working together across different sports."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan I welcome that. We have the volunteers, the players, the demand and now we need the pitches."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh Hear, hear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Barry Heneghan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Barry-Heneghan.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Barry Heneghan North Dublin has produced some of the best footballers, and we have had this debate before with the Minister of State about where the best footballers are from, but if we are going to continue to do that we need pitches. It is really hard for myself and all the other local representatives for north Dublin to meet local volunteers, parents who get up early for their kid's match, to have it called off. I welcome the work that has been done and thank the Minister of State for visiting and meeting with the clubs. However, the wet season is coming along. I know that some of the local authorities have been given facilities to take preventative measures and drain pitches in acceptable ways. I ask that the Minister of State ensures that his Department can follow up the cases that I will raise, and have raised continuously, as it is very frustrating to see young boys and young girls indoors on their phones and playing PlayStation when they should be out playing sports."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I agree on the immense power of sport in all communities and, indeed, the great value we have from sporting clubs in terms of being the heartbeat of communities. The strength of the clubs very much reflects the strength of communities. It is our objective now to have as many applications and as many new facilities through this next round. I particularly encourage the following to happen this time. We have designed the new community sports facilities scheme in a way to encourage schools to collaborate with clubs. In cases where it is possible, if schools have the ground to develop a facility and if a club can work with the school to develop a schoolground, where it is available to schoolchildren during to the day and to the community in the evenings and at the weekend, then that is the ideal in terms of the best synergy for public investment and the participation that comes from that. That is something we are looking to encourage this time around as well."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Facilities"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_29","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Broadband Infrastructure","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_29","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_29.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland I very much welcome the significant investment and progress being made by the national broadband plan. That investment is transforming connectivity across rural Ireland. However, I and my colleagues, Deputies Maeve O'Connell and Barry Ward, continue to raise the issue of urban broadband blackspots. The focus of the Government really now needs to move to making sure that those blackspots are dealt with and that the people who live in Balbriggan and Skerries have connectivity."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I propose to take Questions Nos. 121 and 128 together. I thank Deputy Boland. As the Deputy well knows, the national broadband plan is the Government's initiative to deliver high-speed broadband to all premises in Ireland, both rural and urban, in cases where they did not previously have connectivity. In addition, Ireland's digital connectivity strategy, which was published in December 2022, sets out a number of targets, including that all Irish households and businesses will be covered by a gigabit network no later than 2028. As part of the national broadband plan, the Government appointed National Broadband Ireland, as the Deputy will know, to deliver wholesale broadband services to those parts of the country not served by commercial operators. Premises in the non-intervention or blue area are serviced by commercial providers who are either currently delivering or have plans to deliver high-speed broadband services. The Department defines high-speed broadband as a broadband service with minimum speeds of 30 Mbps download and 6 Mbps upload. If a person lives in the blue area and after contacting their retail service provider are told that they cannot get access to greater than 30 Mbps, they should raise a query with my Department, via our website, that will escalate with the commercial operator to investigate this matter further. There may be a choice of operators offering this service in any given area, and further details on this can be found on the Commission for Communications Regulation's website. My Department is continuing to monitor commercial broadband roll-out plans and network upgrades to help ensure that any unnecessary barriers to investment are identified and addressed. This work is designed to mitigate the risk that premises located in commercially served, or blue areas, may remain unable to access gigabit broadband services due to specific infrastructure challenges. It is important to note that my Department's role is focused on ensuring the availability of high-speed broadband infrastructure to all premises. The commercial broadband retailers operating in both the blue commercial areas, and amber State intervention areas, have their own programmes to encourage and support the adoption of high-speed broadband services within the business community. The decision to take up available services is ultimately a commercial matter for individual businesses and their chosen service providers. Measures to encourage the digitalisation of enterprise, including the adoption by small and medium enterprises of available high-speed connectivity, fall primarily within the remit of the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment that delivers a range of educational, awareness and enablement programmes to support small and medium-sized businesses in embracing digital technologies. It is our objective to make sure that everyone gets broadband. I know that it can be a challenge in some urban areas and where that is the case, in the Dublin constituency of Deputy Boland, the Department will engage with them. I encourage where instances like that occur for people to engage, through the Department's website, so that we can follow up."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland I thank the Minister. I welcome the commitment to ensure that all premises have access to broadband but I raised this issue in November 2025, which is nearly a year ago, with the Minister, Deputy Patrick O'Donovan. Since then, I have continued to be inundated with complaints from people in estates in Downside, the Brambles, Hampton Cove, Loughshinny, Rush and Lusk. There are just so many in north County Dublin but also in Foxrock and Blackrock, and we are not further along. People are so frustrated that they have literally fallen into a policy blindspot between commercial roll-out and Government-sponsored roll-out. We now need a plan to tackle this. I have raised all of these areas with the Department and we are no further along. Can the Minister of State commit to giving us a timeline as to when we will see the filling of these urban blackspots?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I know that this is an issue that the Deputy has raised on an ongoing basis here. We are in a process. The many parts of the country, including some urban areas, which did not have any commercial providers is rapidly being filled out by infrastructure build out by National Broadband Ireland. Certainly, I have had experience of that in the home that I live in and getting broadband for the first time. I accept the point that the Deputy has made that there are some challenges in urban areas in the blue area in which commercial operators had indicated they would provide a service. From a Government point of view, it is important that everyone has broadband. That is the objective behind the State investment. There is a process though it is taking time but we will continue to pursue it within the Department and assess any issues that arise in those blue areas where commercial providers had committed to delivering. We need to see them deliver. We need to see everyone being able to avail of broadband, including all of the areas in the Deputy's constituency, which she has outlined. I will revert further to my Department to ask them to follow-up further and continue to expedite that process in relation to following those up to make sure that they get the service that was committed to them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland I appreciate that. We have seen how the plan has transformed rural connectivity and we need to see that. The reality is, the road my mother lives on has fibre broadband but the road off it does not. That is replicated in Skerries, Balbriggan, Rush, Lusk, Foxrock, Blackrock and D\u00fan Laoghaire, and we really need to see a plan of action. People should not be told they are living in a blue area and, therefore, have access to commercial providers because that is simply not the reality. I have other examples of people in an estate in Downside where they were told by a commercial provider that unless they can get 50 of their neighbours to agree to sign up with one provider that the provider was not going to invest in the works in that estate. That obviously has competition issues as well as trying to cajole or encourage people into an agreement. We really need the Government to shift its focus from rural to urban and see an action plan so that I can go back to my constituents and tell them when they will be able to get access to broadband."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I accept that, Deputy. I think we all agree that we have seen immense progress over the last three to four years in terms of the national broadband plan. Work is ongoing, has been very successful, delivered ahead of time and below budget. There is no doubt that we do have a situation now where many premises that had little to no broadband in the past, in isolated areas, thankfully have great broadband and, in some instances, much better broadband than urban areas in which commercial operators had committed to delivering a service. Commercial operators must follow through and must deliver on their commitments. Every premises, residential and business, in this country needs broadband and the Government is committed to delivering it for them. I thank the Deputy for raising this again today. This process is one we need to push on with in identifying areas that are falling between both stools. They need a high level of service in the same way as many of those who benefited directly from the national broadband plan have."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Broadband Infrastructure"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_30","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Funding","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_30","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_30.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail I will start with my home town of Maynooth where I was born and bred. It is a proud sporting town but in recent days there have been extra celebrations for the Crom Ab\u00fa because not only is Maynooth in the senior hurling final this coming Sunday against Naas for the third year in a row \u2013 hopefully we can get over the line \u2013 we are also in the senior football final for the first time in 110 years with a semifinal win over Naas. I am asking about further investment in facilities for towns like Maynooth."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I join in congratulating Maynooth on its great success and wish it well in the finals. I was delighted to be invited by the Deputy at the end of last year to visit Maynooth GAA club and open one of its newest facilities. I congratulate the club not only on its success on the field but also on its success in developing the club off the field. It is a wonderful example of an exceptional sports club and GAA club in its impact on the community and the great facilities it has developed. I know it has plans to continue with that. I look forward to working with the Deputy and with the club on the opportunities for the Government to support them further on that journey. As the Deputy will know, the community sport facilities fund opened in the last couple of weeks. It provides very strong opportunities to develop further the grounds and ancillary facilities Maynooth GAA club has. I encourage the club to look at the new round and work with the Deputy, and any assistance he can provide, to see how it can apply for that and continue its journey. I am sure the club will be allowed a week or two off to enjoy the next two or three weeks. I wish them well and look forward to working with the Deputy on any support we can provide."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail I will be more conscientious with my time here. What I was trying to get to was towns such as Maynooth and those in the commuter belt in Dublin and Kildare that are under significant pressure for resources. The changing rooms were opened but what we see in a lot of clubs is that there are not enough pitches. Will any consideration be given in the allocation of grant funding to hot-spot areas of high population growth, particularly in the commuter belt where there are new estates popping up, where resources are not matching the increase in inflation? I appreciate there is a long process to go through here. I will work with the clubs in Kildare to ensure that we can maximise the funding and the grants available. Has there been any consideration by the Department or by the Minister of State to those areas that are obviously under pressure when it comes to resources, with the hundreds and thousands more people who are living there?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue It is something we will take into consideration in the funding. There are two issues. There are areas which are under pressure in terms of growing population that do not necessarily have the facilities to match it. That is something that will be a consideration. There are also sports that might not have been traditionally successful or have not applied in significant numbers for grants. That is something we will also consider in how we allocate funds. The two particular funds which I would ask those in large growing urban areas to look at are the two regional tiers. One is for \u20ac500,000 where clubs come together to provide facilities. We have also introduced a new tier of up to \u20ac750,000 where local authorities or national sporting organisations can lead an application to develop multisport facilities particularly in large urban areas where land can be a challenge. There is a real opportunity in that. That is something we will try to target in the upcoming round."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail I welcome that. I acknowledge that Kildare has done well in grants previously. We are extremely appreciative of all grant funding that is allocated to all of our sports clubs. However, I am very conscious, when we look at our towns and villages, that our villages in the commuter belt are now becoming towns because of the demand for more housing and we need to match that pace. We have marvellous grant funding available but we need to take a more balanced approach. This is not to discriminate against rural areas but there are marvellous clubhouse facilities in small little parishes around the country and literally no facilities in some towns and villages. We need to be more cognisant about the amount of funding that is invested into an area in relation to the population and ask, per capita , how much we are actually investing into this town or community. That is not to leave anybody behind but when we are seeing massive growth there needs to be that matched investment."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I am sure the Deputy would agree with this point. I have travelled much of the country over the past year and rarely have I gone to a club in either an urban or rural setting that is not under pressure for additional and improved facilities. That is a reflection of the wonderful work the volunteers are doing within those clubs in bringing more and more people in to participate, especially in relation to the great growth we have seen in closing the gender gap between girls and women playing sport with the same regularity as men. There had traditionally been that gender gap there. The Government wants to support all clubs coming forward. I would say two things. It is important that the applications come forward from large urban areas in the first instance. It is important that everyone in those areas comes to the Government with applications in this round. In relation to the two regional tiers, the Government is very cognisant of making the maximum use of limited land in an area through investment to make sure the population is catered for."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_31","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Funding","counts":{"speechCount":5,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_31","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_31.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I know that the Deputy has had a strong interest in this fund and has been waiting for it to open. I am glad to outline the details. He will have seen that we published the information guide for the 2026 round of the community sport facilities fund, CSFF, in the last couple of weeks. The 2026 round will be administered on a new grant management system, SPRAOI, which opened for registrations on 28 September. SPRAOI opened for applications on Monday, 19 October 2026, and will remain open until 26 February. In line with previous rounds it is proposed to assess the level of demand following closure of the applications window. Following that assessment, my Department will engage with the Department of public expenditure in the context of the Department\u2019s capital envelope under the national development plan. This process will inform the timing and quantum of funding allocations. The 2026 round of the CSFF includes a number of new features, including increased maximum grant amounts that will allow local project applications to apply for up to \u20ac250,000, which is a \u20ac50,000 increase in the maximum from the last round, and also regional tier 1 projects to apply for up to \u20ac550,000. A new regional tier 2 funding category has been introduced on a pilot basis for larger multisport facility applications from local authorities and sports national governing bodies. Additionally, eligibility criteria have been eased with lease requirements of ten years instead of the previous 15-year requirement and removing the mandatory requirement to have registered leases. The round also includes changes to encourage more joint applications with schools and to drive stronger engagement with the \u201csport-for-all\u201d ethos that underpins national sports policy. These changes will facilitate clubs and organisations in applying for funding to support the facilities that their communities need in order to serve people of all ages and abilities. All applications will be assessed in accordance with the terms and conditions of the fund, as set out in the published information guide for the round."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke I thank the Minister of State. It is important that we acknowledge the work that has been done by the Department but also by all the sports organisations around the country over recent years in the way they have effectively used funds to develop facilities. It is important we acknowledge that. The issue in relation to this grant allocation is the Minister of State said it will close on 26 February. What kind of time period are we talking about for assessment before clubs will know when the money will be available to proceed with works? The other big issue in relation to sports facilities is the cost of developing them. It has changed quite a bit. There is one particular issue we need to be conscious of which is areas where there has been huge growth in housing and additional facilities are needed. The team in my area of Ballincollig won the premier intermediate hurling championship in Cork on Sunday. It has done a lot of work in involving young people. It is important to ensure areas like that get funding."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I congratulate Ballincollig on winning the intermediate hurling final. It was a wonderful Sunday and a wonderful weekend with a number of county finals taking place including in my own county. Listening on Monday morning to the \"Morning Ireland\" sports review collage of the different county finals and finishes across the country shows what a wonderful weekend it was. It is good to see the Deputy here today after Ballincollig's win on Sunday. The Deputy is right - with the number of young people and people of all ages and both genders taking part, there is a need for more club facilities and expansion and improvement of facilities. Applications will close at the end of February. Our objective then will be to have funding announcements by the end of the summer period so the clubs will know where they stand and be able to progress their planned projects."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke It is important that I acknowledge the Glen which is also in my constituency. It won the senior hurling championship for the first time in ten years. It needs to be congratulated as well. It has developed huge facilities as a result of getting grants down through the years. It has used them very effectively. It is important that we look at areas where there is a huge growth in population. That is happening in my constituency. In Ballyvolane, over 1,000 are going in. We need to make sure we continue to develop facilities in those areas. Likewise in places like Blarney and Glanmire. In Glanmire they are caught - no additional land is available and clubs find it extremely difficult to develop facilities because land is not available yet 30 acres was leased to the FAI over ten years ago. It is still lying idle and not being used even though the land is owned by the county council. That needs to be resolved."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I join Deputy Burke in wishing the Glen well. I think it was its first time in ten years being county champion. I congratulate the club. The Deputy's point is very valid. In large urban and developing areas in his constituency and other parts of the country, we have to make sure we pay attention to that in relation to the round. That is why we developed the new tier, tier two, of a maximum of \u20ac750,000 to try to work with local authorities and national sporting bodies to bring sports together. We also need to work with local authorities in particular in the identification of land in areas where it is scarce and encourage collaboration with schools where that is a possibility in some cases. We have made the conditions of this round more amendable to try to encourage schools and patrons to work with clubs. I encourage all schools and patrons to look at that. There is real potential. That is all the more important in areas where land is at a premium because we not making more of it. We have to utilise the best we can by working together and investing."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_32","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Facilities","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_32","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_32.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail I am taking this question on behalf of my colleague, Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan. Further to parliamentary question No. 44338\/26 of 11 June 2026, and the Minister's statement that \u201cprojects that are not moving forward will have to be taken off the books so new ones can be considered\u201d, Deputy O'Sullivan is asking whether any projects have since been removed from consideration under the large-scale sport infrastructure fund, the amount of funding involved and whether that funding can be reallocated."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue Under the 2018 round of the large-scale sport infrastructure fund, a total of \u20ac124 million was awarded to 33 projects between initial allocations in early 2020 and subsequent top-ups to projects in 2023. Kilkenny Local Authorities Leisure Complex Limited received an allocation of \u20ac2.17 million in respect of The Watershed under LSSIF 2018 between initial allocation and top-up funding. In early 2025, the local authority undertook a value-engineering exercise to address project cost increases. The allocation was subsequently withdrawn after the grantee advised that it could no longer proceed with the project in the absence of further funding from Kilkenny County Council to meet the significant increase in overall project cost. The withdrawn funding was reallocated to address capital requirements for the Galway regional aquatic centre which was also allocated LSSIF funding in 2020 but had not received a top-up allocation in 2023. Specifically, a \u20ac3.25 million top-up allocation was allocated to Galway City Council in May 2026 to close the funding deficit to ensure delivery of the project. The 2024 round of LSSIF received unprecedented demand for funding, amounting to \u20ac665 million worth of applications from 96 applicants. Grants totalling \u20ac173 million, benefiting 35 individual projects, were allocated. A use-it-or-lose-it clause was introduced in the 2024 round which stipulated that if there has not been drawdown of part of a grant within two to three years or before a new LSSIF round is announced, the grant offer may be deemed withdrawn, with each project dealt with on a case-by-case basis. As we are not at the end of that two- to three-year period, no funding has been withdrawn to date from projects allocated funding under the 2024 LSSIF round. At present, 33 out of the 35 projects are at various stages of assessment with two having progressed to construction stage."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail I welcome the Minister of State's positive response. It is quite a difficult scenario. On the one hand, there are projects that may be delayed and it is not the fault of the clubs. There could be issues with contractors, procurement and the price that was given and the price now. On the other hand, there are really worthy projects still waiting for funding. Some projects are being held up while others are stalled. The Minister of State's answer gives clarity on the situation. I will relay that to our colleague, Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan. I do not need any further information from the Minister of State."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue The objective from a Government point of view is to make sure all of these projects move forward. We are in constant communication with all of the applicants from the 2020 round as well as the 2024 round to make sure they push on and are dealt with. From a Government capital point of view, we are spending all of the capital we have been allocated under the national development plan. We are making sure it is spent every year between the LSSIF, the community sports facility fund and the developments in the national sports campus such as the velodrome and badminton centre and the cricket ground. We will provide for every project as quickly as they can move, as we have done up to now. We want to see them all move. We do not want to be in a situation where they are being withdrawn. We will not have a situation where one project not moving forward sees anywhere else suffer. That has not been the case up to now. We want to be in a position in 2028 to open a new round to see new projects be able to fly and move forward."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Naoise-\u00d3-Cear\u00fail.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Naoise \u00d3 Cear\u00fail Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire St\u00e1it. T\u00e1im f\u00edorbhu\u00edoch as sin. I would like to add that I appreciate the effort and work the Minister of State is putting in as the Minister of State with responsibility for sport. I have seen it at first hand in Kildare. I thank him for the amount of work and effort he is putting in. He is travelling all around the country meeting clubs. It is much appreciated."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue The Deputy is travelling around the country tonight himself, taking Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan's question in relation to Cork. I am aware of the particular project he is dealing with and referred to which we want to see move on. This community sports facilities round will be an important opportunity for clubs. From a Government point of view, we have seen a significant increase in prioritisation of funding for sports clubs. The most recent round had \u20ac270 million, benefiting over 3,000 clubs. The round two years before that had \u20ac170 million and the round two years before that had \u20ac70 million. The Deputy can see the massive increase in prioritisation we are putting in. We want to see a round this time that benefits across the country, including Kildare and other parts of the country, and sees more and more people getting to enjoy the benefits sport can have for their health as well as their well-being and, indeed, the well-being of the communities in which they are residing. I look forward to working with Deputy \u00d3 Cear\u00fail and others to try to make sure we have the biggest impact we can from this round."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Facilities"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_33","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Social Media","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_33","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_33.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland As a parent, as a TD and as a member of the committee on children, I have yet to meet someone who is not deeply concerned about the impact of social media on our children. That is why the proposed EU Kids Act is so very welcome. The Minister of State might please update us as to the timeline for implementation and the role Ireland is playing in ensuring these much-needed protections are implemented."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I thank Deputy Boland for her interest in and advocacy on this issue. The Government supports an EU-wide approach to age restrictions, as the Deputy knows, for access to social media as part of a wider process of improving online safety on an ongoing basis. In September, Ireland hosted a high-level EU Presidency conference on the subject, bringing colleagues from across Europe together. Issues, including potential age restrictions, were considered during the conference itself and at a ministerial dinner held alongside the conference. Since then, the European Commission has published a proposal for a new EU Kids Act. This is designed to strengthen protection of children online across the EU. It includes proposals for new age thresholds to access social media and video sharing platforms. The proposal takes a graduated approach. Children under the age of 13 would not be able to have accounts for social media or video sharing platforms. They would be able, through their parents' account, to view video platforms that are designed for young children. For children aged between 13 and 15, a parent or guardian could set up a limited account with parental controls, time limits and restrictions on contacts. Young people aged over 15 could open their own accounts, but the services must be designed to be safe for them. My Department will open a public consultation on the proposal, and the outcome of that will inform the national position on these provisions and the other measures in the proposal. In the meantime, as the protection of children and young people online is a key theme of Ireland\u2019s Presidency of the EU, as the Deputy knows, the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Donovan, has given and will give priority to the negotiations on the Kids Act, and those discussions are progressing."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland I appreciate the Minister of State's response. However, we are aware of the impact on children and teenagers now and the impact on their confidence and their mental health and the addictive nature of social media. We really need to see this regulation implemented as swiftly as possible. There are organisations right across this country, including Turning Tides in my area in Skerries and It Takes a Village in Greystones, that are coming together because they are lacking the national and European leadership. They are doing everything they can to try to delay smartphone usage. However, it is very difficult for parents when we are going up against the might of tech companies. I think we all have to accept that there really needs to be national and European regulation on this to make sure the tech companies are implementing safety by design."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I thank Deputy Boland. I think both of us would agree that this is one of the challenges of our time and it is really important that we respond appropriately to that. The challenge is urgent, as the Deputy said. As she knows, the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, recognised that and did make this the key issue for the Irish Presidency as part of the communications brief at European level, recognising the fact that it is more appropriate and much stronger if we can act at European level. That approach has borne fruit in relation to the EU Kids Act. It is important now that we move forward collectively at European level to see that progress. As the Deputy said, it is urgent. One of the steps we also took was what the Minister, Deputy Foley, did in the budget before last in relation to allocating funding for smartphone pouches to go into schools across the country. That has been an immense success in those schools it has been delivered in, and it has been very much welcomed by the students in those schools. Again, that shows the thirst that is out there for good management of what is a real challenge."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Grace Boland","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Grace-Boland.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Grace Boland I agree; it was fantastic to see the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, put such a focus on this. I think it really did influence the bringing forward of the EU Kids Act proposal. I would like to see the Minister of State and his Department really using Ireland\u2019s position now to make sure there is a timetable set out for the implementation of this regulation. This is urgent. We need to see Government and Europe act swiftly. It was very welcome to see the proposals, but we now also need to see very swift and urgent action and for Ireland to use its leadership role at the EU Presidency level to make sure that happens."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue The Commission published its proposal on 17 September. Ireland\u2019s Presidency of the EU has given priority now to the negotiations in Council, so those are already under way. It is too early to predict when those discussions and negotiations with the European Parliament will conclude, but once the measure is adopted and enforced, most of its provisions are due to take effect within six months of that date. I absolutely concur with the Deputy. It is important we now push on. I recognise the initiative of President von der Leyen at European level in terms of grabbing this and recognising the importance of it. It is important across Europe that it is robust and effective. It is really important that we see it be effective first within our country and that is going to be our objective, certainly, from a Presidency point of view. It is certainly the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Donovan\u2019s, priority to make sure this pushes on now and remains at the forefront of our Presidency, and that progress is made in a significant way and that continues into the Lithuanian Presidency afterwards."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Social Media"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_34","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Commemorative Events","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_34","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_34.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Edward Timmins Twenty-three US Presidents have Irish heritage, with many coming from Northern Ireland. As the Minister of State knows, I first floated this idea of an American Presidents Trail early last year in the House. I thank the Government for the support already given and wish to ask for an update on its progress."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I thank Deputy Timmins for raising this again on the floor of the D\u00e1il. He has been absolutely to the fore in terms of his drive to see this come to fruition and become a reality. This year has seen a significant programme of events as part of America 250 and the national commemoration marking the 250th anniversary of the US Declaration of Independence. That has been supported within the Department by \u20ac200,000 in funding to guarantee a programme that is both meaningful and appropriate. The American Presidents Trail, which the Deputy has been a phenomenal advocate of, is one of the principal initiatives that supports America 250. My Department is collaborating closely with our partners in the local authorities to find the areas and communities across the island with close ties to former US Presidents. These various townlands have been identified and it is planned that they will all be marked by both a symbolic Irish tree and information panel. Our partners in local government are leading on the tree planting initiative and the text for the information panels is currently being assembled. By doing so, we hope to underline just how much Ireland has given to America and how much the American story was written with Irish ink. Elsewhere, I am delighted to say that great progress is also being made on the literary companions to the American Presidents Trail. A book documenting the lives and families of American Presidents of Irish descent was launched on 4 July, and a companion book for schoolchildren will be delivered this December. Work is also continuing in partnership with the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland on the wider delivery of the America 250 programme. All activity is guided by the established principles of commemorations, respectful remembrance, historical authenticity, inclusivity and accessibility. The American Presidents Trail will leave a lasting legacy and will underline and celebrate the contribution of the Irish and Irish America to the American story, while also delivering cultural educational and tourism benefits."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Edward Timmins I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive response. I also thank the Minister, Deputy O\u2019Donovan, for bringing this project to Cabinet and getting approval in April of this year. The actions in July are the start of what will, we hope, eventually be a fully fledged tourist route. I strongly believe this proposal could be a huge positive North-South project. There is support for this in Northern Ireland as well. This could also be a massive attraction for US visitors, especially those with Irish links, and could be comparable to the Wild Atlantic Way. I have pinpointed several key counties to consider, along with a suggested route, but ultimately this map would benefit all parts of Ireland. Will the Minister of State join with me in trying to persuade Tourism Ireland and F\u00e1ilte Ireland to make this part of their strategy?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I certainly will pass on the Deputy's thanks to the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, for bringing this forward and working with the Deputy on it. Our connections with America are so important to us as a country. We see that with the wonderful two-way economic relationship we have between both countries. I agree with the Deputy that it has immense tourism potential. We know that so many of our American visitors enjoy exploring their Irish roots as part of their visits to Ireland, as well as connecting with their Irish relations. That is certainly something that offers further potential in terms of the American Presidents' Trail for F\u00e1ilte Ireland to look to build upon. I certainly will relay the Deputy's initiative and ask them to see how they can build on this initiative once it is completed. It is an opportunity for tourism."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Edward Timmins","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Edward-Timmins.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Edward Timmins Never has it been so important to highlight the close relationship we have with the US. This trail will promote our closer ties. It is a perfect example of the use of soft power. Soft power is something we have with the US. We need to constantly remind ourselves of this fact, develop it and not take it for granted. It has contributed a massive investment, as the Minister of State said, by the US in this country. It would also fit perfectly with the goals of the shared island fund. It would boost the economy of Northern Ireland and deliver benefits that we cannot predict. It would improve co-operation between both parts of this island and develop relationships that currently do not exist. This is the best way to unite our Ireland. It would bring people closer together and then borders would simply melt away."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue The Deputy's point is a very fair one. Both parts of our Ireland - North and South - have contributed to the American story and the development of the American nation. That is something we share in this island as well. The American Presidents' Trail is something we can work on together on an all-island basis. The Deputy's point is a valid one in relation to the potential for the shared island fund and how they can consider that as well. I thank the Deputy for raising the matter today. We look forward from a departmental point of view to continuing to work to see it through to fruition and, indeed, to take on board the various ideas that the Deputy has to ensure it reaches its potential."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question No. 127 taken with Written Answers."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question No. 128 taken with Question No. 121."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Commemorative Events"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_35","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sports Funding","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_35","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_35.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara When will the LSSIF be reopened or will there be anything specific considered for swimming pools? As the Minister of State will be aware, I am raising this in the context of Loughrea where there are ongoing efforts to progress a new swimming pool for the local community."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue As the Deputy pointed out, Ireland's first national swimming strategy sets out a vision to provide everyone in our country with an opportunity to swim. It includes an action plan containing over 50 actions across five thematic strands. In support of the strategy, my Department has provided additional funding of \u20ac1.5 million to Swim Ireland for 2024, 2025 and 2026 for the deployment of swimming activators to work within local authority areas focusing on increasing participation among underrepresented groups and improving coaching supports and facilities. While the provision of public swimming pools is a matter for local authorities, my Department administers two capital funding programmes for sport, namely the community sports facilities fund and, as the Deputy pointed out, the large-scale sport infrastructure fund, that can be accessed to improve and develop public swimming pool infrastructure. The new round of the community sports facilities fund is now open and will stay open until the end of February. Applications in relation to swimming pools that support objectives under the national swimming strategy will be prioritised within that. The LSSIF so far has allocated just under \u20ac43 million for 12 swimming pool and aquatic infrastructure projects. I was delighted earlier today to officially open the newly completed Lucan leisure campus in County Dublin where the project received an allocation of \u20ac3.8 million under the LSSIF and consists of two newly constructed swimming pools, including a multi-use pool with a moveable floor. Regarding the next round, which is the Deputy's key interest, our plan is to open it in 2028. We are currently assessing a swimming pool gap analysis report completed by Swim Ireland to assess exactly what the level of need is across the country and to consider how best we can tailor capital funding from the Department in the context of LSSIF or a tailored element around that to try to work on addressing those gaps across the country to make sure there is good provision in all parts of the country, including Loughrea."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara On Saturday, I was glad to attend to launch of the feasibility study report for the Loughrea swimming pool. I give huge credit to Colm O'Donnell and all his committee for their work in progressing that study. The study has found there is a clear need for a swimming pool in Loughrea to serve the town and surrounding areas. A number of sites have been identified, including a preferred site. This was a very important step forward for the committee in achieving its goal of a public swimming pool in Loughrea. There is a huge need for this in Loughrea. This is a growing town with a population of over 6,000 people. It has a very large rural hinterland as well. It is important for us to remember the benefits that swimming facilities can bring for children, older people, the disabled and so on. It would be a fantastic addition to the local community. Regarding moving the project forward, things like securing a site, carrying out design works and planning will need to be done. Will the Minister of State and the Department offer assistance to the local community and Galway County Council to progress those items and be shovel-ready for the LSSIF in 2028?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue At the invitation of Senator Shane Curley I met the Loughrea swimming pool committee along with the Deputy and other public representatives from the constituency. Whether it is the LSSIF round in 2028 or a fund alongside that, we will work to try to develop further swimming pool facilities around the country. It will be key for each local project to identify and secure its own site, working with the local authority. I was very clear when I met with the swimming pool committee that it is a key step that needs to be taken and secured at local level. In relation to the Government moving forward and trying to address the gaps that we have across the country to make sure the opportunity to swim is available in all communities, we look forward to assessing any application that comes in then on its merits."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Louis O'Hara","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Louis-O'Hara.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Louis O'Hara I take on board the Minister of State's feedback in respect of securing a site. As I mentioned, they have identified a preferred site. Obviously, securing a site, getting design work, planning and other items completed and the project development stages will be very costly. Loughrea was previously allocated \u20ac1.7 million under the local authority swimming pool programme a number of years ago. It would be a huge boost to this project if that money could be reallocated to the Loughrea swimming pool project to get those initial project development costs covered and to progress this. Galway County Council has made a request for this also. Similar funding has been given to other projects elsewhere, including in Buncrana in the Minister of State's constituency. That is just for the initial stages. There is a funding gap when it comes to the LSSIF, and matched funding is required, which would be a challenge for Galway County Council. The question for now is, how can we progress this to get it shovel ready? Will the Department offer assistance?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue It will be important for every project, including Loughrea, to be able to come forward, in terms of any application, with a site and a design proposal. The onus is on the local authority to develop those proposals. The Deputy mentioned Buncrana in my constituency in Donegal, for example. In that instance, the work on putting the design together was advanced by the local authority with its own funding. That is also the case with the Lucan swimming pool, which I opened today. That project cost just under \u20ac20 million to deliver. It is an exceptional facility. Funding from the Government was just under \u20ac4 million, while the other \u20ac16 million was primarily from the local authority, as well as the local community through fundraising. It is up to the local authorities to bring projects forward and develop initial designs."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sports Funding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_36","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Budget 2027","counts":{"speechCount":8,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_36","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_36.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh A month ago, RT\u00c9 news reported teenagers were to receive a \u20ac100 culture voucher in the budget. The day before the budget, the Minister's spokesperson confirmed the funding was secured. This followed the programme for Government commitment to a culture card in 2025 and a hype video in February featuring Government TD Peter 'Chap' Cleere shouting \"Yeah, baby\" and pretending to be a DJ. My question is simple: what happened to that culture card?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I thank the Deputy. I will pass on his compliments to Deputy Cleere on his DJing capacities."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh I did not say he was a good DJ."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I think he had potential. The programme for Government committed to \u201cexamine the introduction of a Culture Card for 16 and 17-year-olds to access theatre, music and art events\u201d. The delivery of a youth culture card was always subject to budget allocation, and while budget 2027 has not provided funding for the roll-out of the programme, the Department will continue to explore the development of a culture card for our young people, in line with the programme for Government commitment. Our overarching aim is to support increased participation in cultural life among young people in Ireland, encouraging engagement with arts and creative industries at a critical developmental stage. This remains an important priority. Options for the development, operation, scope and funding structure for culture cards are being explored further. Anticipated benefits include stimulating lifelong creative engagement, improving well-being outcomes and providing direct economic stimulus for the cultural and creative sectors. In addition, the proposal would support broader priorities around online safety and youth engagement, offering young people alternative social engagement beyond their mobile phones. The proposed culture card is just one way to increase young people's cultural engagement. My Department already supports a range of institutions, programmes and initiatives that create opportunities for young people nationwide, including through Creative Ireland\u2019s creative youth action plan and funding for initiatives such as local creative youth partnerships, creative schools and Cruinni\u00fa na n\u00d3g."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh We had the kite-flying, the hype and the song and dance about this. It is on and off again. Will the Minister of State confirm whether we will see a properly funded culture card for young people in next year's budget? Will the work be concluded? With all the hype beforehand, I presumed the Minister had done his homework, investigated similar culture cards around the world and put in the work with the Minister for Finance well in advance of the budget two weeks ago, yet it seems that work had not been concluded and they are going back to researching this again. It seems to be starting all over again, rather than delivering what was promised. We were basically told it was ready to go when it obviously was not."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I can confirm it is a programme for Government commitment to \"examine the introduction of a Culture Card for 16 and 17-year-olds to enable them to access theatre, music and arts events\". I can also confirm the budget introduced at the start of this month was the second of five this Government will introduce. As with any large programme of commitments laid out over a five-year period, you cannot do everything in year 1 or year 2. There are three more budgets left. As the Minister has clearly outlined, work is ongoing in the Department to explore how the culture card concept would work and the proposal around it. It will be considered in the context of the budget next year and in the context of delivering on programme for Government commitments. I think all of us agree on the merits of the proposal but all of us are clear we cannot do everything at once. We have a commitment there to progress it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh I support the concept of an activity card. It is in our own pre-budget submission and has been for a number of years. We have looked at it. The Minister of State spoke of years 1, 2 and 3 but then he said work would continue on exploring it. That suggests it is not shovel-ready, to take a phrase from the previous question. It does not suggest the Department has gone beyond the concept of the culture card. I implore it to do the work so that next year's budget has the concept nailed down and it can be delivered from day one, rather than saying it is another one of those that need research, that the Department will look at the concept again next year or that it will introduce a pilot. This is a promise in the programme for Government and it should be delivered as soon as possible."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I welcome the Deputy's support for the idea of a culture card. Work is continuing in the Department on assessing how it would work and its implementation pathway. Critical to making it happen is a funding line for it. As the Minister has said, that will be revisited in budget discussions next year in the context of a clear commitment in the programme for Government to progress it. The merits of it are strong, and there is strong support from the Deputy and others across the House for it. While we would like to be able to do it immediately, everything is budget permitting and it will be revisited."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Question No. 131 taken with Written Answers."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Budget 2027"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_37","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Budget 2027","counts":{"speechCount":7,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_37","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_37.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh I am back to the budget. Budget 2027 was a disappointment for the arts. Not only was capital funding cut and Arts Council funding failed to keep pace with inflation, but there were only vague commitments to examine tax reliefs for theatre in the future, the regional uplift sought for the film industry was nowhere to be seen and the tax relief available to sports remains closed to the arts. This is a chance for the Department to explain what discussions took place with the Department of Finance on these matters."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue I thank the Deputy. Officials in my Department have ongoing engagement with the Department of Finance on matters relating to tax reliefs that apply to the culture sector. In this context, the Minister wrote to the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Finance in advance of budget 2027 to consider a sustained uplift of 8% to the section 481 tax relief for regional productions for a period of eight to ten years. He also met with the T\u00e1naiste in advance of the budget to discuss a number of items, including a regional uplift for section 481. In addition, he requested the T\u00e1naiste examine extending the unique sports philanthropy marginal rate tax relief scheme to the arts; increase from \u20ac8 million to \u20ac12 million the capacity of the section 1003 scheme, which provides tax relief in respect of donations of cultural goods and heritage items to public collections in Ireland; and signal that his Department would engage with the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport on reviewing the tax treatment of theatre production costs and supports for the wider night-time economy. All proposals for change in tax relief are brought forward for consideration by the Government in the context of competing demands, an agreed fiscal framework and significant increases in reliefs in recent years, especially in the area of section 481. I am pleased the Government approved a significant increase to the section 1003 tax relief on donations of cultural goods to public collections in Ireland and will over the next 12 months review the tax treatment of theatre production costs and supports for the night-time economy."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh Gabhaim bu\u00edochas leis an Aire St\u00e1it. So, it is the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Finance's fault that we do not see the 8% regional uplift. It is the fault of the T\u00e1naiste and Minister for Finance that we do not see the 8% regional uplift. The Minister of State said that the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, wrote to him and asked for it and it did not appear. This is another promise not kept. Are we anywhere closer to some commitment to that film industry regional uplift of 8% being achieved next year? For the night-time economy, what is the timetable for the consultation to see what additional support can be given, rather than the vague idea that the matter will be looked into?"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue Work will continue with the Department of Finance on the proposal. While it was not secured in the budget on this occasion, it is fair to say that the Government has delivered significant additional benefits for our screen sector, with increased expenditure and new and enhanced tax credits. There were two separate enhancements to the section 481 tax credit over the past period. In 2025, an additional 8% tax relief was introduced under the Sc\u00e9al enhancement for lower budget feature films. In 2026, an additional 8% was introduced for the visual effects enhancement, to help promote Ireland as a VFX centre of excellence and a destination with talent and huge potential for growth. I know the sector is pressing for the regional uplift and it would be of significant benefit. The Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, has pressed it with the Minister of Finance and we will continue to pursue it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Aengus-\u00d3-Snodaigh.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Aengus \u00d3 Snodaigh I welcome the ceiling being raised for the tax relief for heritage donations and the artistic measures which were included in the budget to allow people to make donations to national cultural institutions and several other approved bodies. We need to look beyond that. There is the need to fund artists and art spaces in particular and to allow donations or philanthropy to be encouraged through some form of tax relief similar to that which exists for certain sports bodies which have been designated by the Department. We should extend that type of tax relief from sports into the arts field. Ireland is getting richer. Some people have a lot of money and are willing to contribute when asked or sometimes when it is of benefit to them."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue It is important that we provide opportunities and facilitate people who wish to contribute their own resources and to donate through philanthropy to support our arts sector. The key point the Deputy is raising is that of the regional uplift. I have met people from the film industry in my own county in relation to that as well. We all have to recognise that a certain amount is available to the Minister of Finance in the context of a budget, when taking into account supporting businesses, supporting people with personal taxation and addressing the cost of living challenges. The Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, and I will support this and we will continue to engage with the Minister for Finance on the potential for it in the future."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Sorca Clarke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","memberCode":"Sorca-Clarke.D.2020-02-08","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Sorca Clarke) We will move on to Question No. 133. Deputy Burke, you will not get the opportunity for supplementary questions, but you can certainly ask your question and have the first-round response from the Minister of State."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Budget 2027"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_38","debateType":"question","bill":null,"showAs":"Sport and Recreational Development","counts":{"speechCount":10,"speakerCount":3},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_27","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_27","showAs":"Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_38","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/mul@\/dbsect_38.xml"},"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke What mechanisms will be available for community groups and sports clubs to apply funding for a sports pavilion where the funding level required is greatly in excess of \u20ac250,000 for local groups in the community sports facilities fund? I am raising this in respect of situations where there is a number of sports organisations working together to build a facility and especially where there is a lot of new housing development and a reasonably sized facility needs to be developed."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I would point any clubs in his constituency that are working with the Deputy to the information guide we published in the past couple of weeks on the Department's website. It sets out the criteria for the different grant thresholds available to sports clubs and organisations. As the Deputy knows, we have the standard one, which is up to \u20ac250,000, and can be funded up to a maximum of 95% of the overall expenditure. To apply for more under the community sport facilities fund, which is what the Deputy is asking about, an applicant must apply through the regional funding tiers, which are generally designed for larger collaborative projects, rather than standard, single-club local developments. Regional tier 1 funding ranges from \u20ac250,000 to \u20ac550,000 and is open to larger projects shared by two or more clubs, or projects led by a national governing body of sport or by a local authority. The tier provides for funding at a maximum rate of 70% of the overall project cost. In other words, such projects will have an own-funding requirement of 30%. A new pilot regional tier 2 element for larger projects has also been introduced in the this round of the CSFF. This provides for funding of between \u20ac550,000 and \u20ac750,000. This stream of funding is only open to local authorities and national governing bodies for multi-sport or specialised collaborative regional setups. The maximum funding rate for this initiative is also set at 70%. Those two regional tiers are the ones that any clubs looking to collaborate with others or work under the auspices of a local authority or national governing body would need to look to. I encourage them to look at the detail in the application guide to progress their applications."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke I am asking in the context particularly of new developments. It is about getting the sports groups working with the local authorities and the Department making sure that adequate funding is put in place. It should not be a case of people being told to come back in five years' time for the matter to be considered."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Maurice Quinlivan) Time is up, Deputy, unless the Minister of State wants to make a very quick response."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke Now is the time, when the housing is being built, that we need to deliver the facilities."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue Tier 1 provides for up to \u20ac550,000. It is possible for clubs to come together to collaborate to provide facilities which meet more than the needs of each individual club and meet more of a regional need. For example, it is possible to develop large AstroTurf facilities, which more than one club would be able to avail of. The new tier 2 provides up to \u20ac750,000 and those applications have to be led by a local authority or a national sporting body. That is for multiple sports to come together to develop facilities. There is real potential, particularly in large urban areas with growing needs, to meet the need for new facilities through both of those tiers."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke Regarding the Cork area, in the last round of grants there were only two major projects for all of Cork county and city. One was for \u20ac2 million, where athletic clubs got together with the county council. The other one was a \u20ac1 million project for a really good soccer facility."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Maurice Quinlivan) Deputy, we are out of time."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Colm Burke","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","memberCode":"Colm-Burke.S.2011-05-25","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Colm Burke That was only \u20ac3 million for a huge population. It is a pity that there was not more co-operation and co-ordination between the local authorities and sports clubs."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Charlie McConalogue","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","memberCode":"Charlie-McConalogue.D.2011-03-09","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Charlie McConalogue There is an opportunity now in this round, particularly with the introduction for the first time of the \u20ac750,000 maximum tier. It will encourage local authorities and sporting bodies to work together to develop multi-sport facilities. We have listened over the past year and engaged with clubs as to what their needs are, particularly the need for large-scale AstroTurf and all-weather surfaces in local communities. I encourage clubs to look at the opportunities available. It will be my objective to work with the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Chambers, and the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, to make sure we have as significant a funding round as possible this time."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Is f\u00e9idir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scr\u00edofa ar www.oireachtas.ie."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Sport and Recreational Development"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_39","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters","counts":{"speechCount":1,"speakerCount":1},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_39","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"An Cathaoirleach Gn\u00edomhach (Deputy Maurice Quinlivan) I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 39 and the name of the Member in each case: Deputy P\u00e1draig O'Sullivan - To discuss the proposed closure of the dementia unit at St. Stephen's Hospital, Glanmire, Cork. Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy - To discuss issues in healthcare services in Longford-Westmeath. Deputy Malcolm Byrne - To discuss measures to tackle the rate of youth unemployment. Deputy Se\u00e1n Kyne - To discuss funding for increased capacity on Galway commuter bus routes. Deputy Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in - To discuss the differential rent scheme. Deputies Cian O'Callaghan, Tom Brabazon, Barry Heneghan and Naoise \u00d3 Muir\u00ed - To discuss delays in the new school building project at Gaelchol\u00e1iste Reachrann. Deputy Conor D. McGuinness - To discuss primary care in Waterford. Deputy Jen Cummins - To discuss the improvements needed for diagnosis of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD. Deputy Louise O'Reilly - To discuss the need for electric vehicle, EV, charging infrastructure to be located in developments. Deputy Donna McGettigan - To discuss calls for women to be told their breast density and for further tests to be made available. Deputy Claire Kerrane - To discuss the need for more garda\u00ed in Ballinasloe, County Galway. Deputy Maurice Quinlivan - To discuss the failure to implement the recommendations of the HIQA review on urgent and emergency healthcare services in the HSE Mid West region. Deputy Ryan O'Meara - To discuss the need for a full review of trespass laws in rural Ireland. Deputies Michael Murphy and Mattie McGrath - To discuss the need to strengthen Uisce \u00c9ireann's accountability to D\u00e1il \u00c9ireann. Deputies Danny Healy-Rae and Michael Cahill - To discuss issues with contaminated water in north Kerry. Deputies Aidan Farrelly and Mark Wall - To discuss staffing issues and patient and staffing safety issues at Naas General Hospital. Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty - To discuss extending the Liffey Valley special amenity area. The matters raised by Deputies Carrigy, Quinlivan, \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in, Gogarty and Cathal Crowe have been selected for discussion."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"\u00c1bhair Shaincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Matters"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_40","debateType":"topical","bill":null,"showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate","counts":{"speechCount":0,"speakerCount":0},"parentDebateSection":null,"containsDebate":false,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","speakers":[],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_41","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Health Services","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_40","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_41","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy I thank the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, for taking this Topical Issue, which is to highlight the healthcare situation in my constituency of Longford-Westmeath. For years, particularly in Longford, we have had to campaign for healthcare services. However, instead of existing services being improved or even maintained, some of them have been removed. Constituents come to my office constantly to ask about ophthalmology, occupational therapy, disability, urology, dental, renal and mental health services and, most recently, the closure of the diabetes clinic in Mullingar. It came to my attention recently that there is no urologist currently serving the area and that the relevant post has not been filled at Midland Regional Hospital Tullamore. I refer to hospitals that are within a journey time of one hour for people in my constituency. They now have to go further for services. In ophthalmology, there is a recurring issue, which I have raised here regularly, whereby patients must go to the Royal Victoria Eye and Ear Hospital in Dublin. Currently, more than 1,000 people in Longford-Westmeath are waiting for an ophthalmology appointment, with an average wait time of 12 to 15 months. My constituents have long commutes to get to the services. There is a similarly significant waiting list to access children's disability network teams, CDNTs. When we submit parliamentary questions about this, the reply is that a detailed response is being prepared by the HSE in consultation with the relevant services and stakeholders. Unfortunately, in many instances, no detailed response is received. In recent times, a contract was given to a doctor to provide a service, including in Lanesborough, County Longford, which is a rural town with a clinic with a high level of need. It was quite obvious from the beginning that the intention was to close down that service in Lanesborough despite the contract stating that it must be provided. Currently, there is no GP service being provided there under that contract. Elderly and vulnerable people deserve proper access to healthcare, not to be treated in this way by someone who signed a contract with the HSE in good faith. The doctor in question is not fulfilling the contractual obligation to provide that service and, therefore, should lose the contract. In my view, the intention from day one was to close the service in Lanesborough. The doctor signed the contract but the service is not being provided. More than 475 children in my constituency are on children's occupational therapy waiting lists. Of 701 sixth class children, 506 still have to be seen for dental screening. Unfortunately, it is a case generally of long lists and people waiting. It is necessary to travel outside the county for nearly all the services that need to be accessed. I recently highlighted that patients are travelling from Longford to Tullamore, and sometimes even to Portlaoise, for renal dialysis. That service could be provided in Longford, which is something for which we plan to campaign. Most recently, as I said, the diabetes unit closed in Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar. That service was covering the entire midlands region and its closure leaves a severe gap in care for people with diabetes who rely on the service for support with medical devices such as insulin pumps. I ask the Minister of State to take those points on board. In addition, an issue that falls under his remit and which I know he is looking at closely is the provision of home support hours and finding the staff to provide those hours."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kieran O'Donnell) I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to update the House on these important health-related matters for his constituents in Longford-Westmeath. I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill. I acknowledge the concerns Deputy Carrigy has raised about health services in Longford-Westmeath, particularly where people experience long waits or need to travel for care. These are important issues and I welcome the chance to outline the measures being taken to improve services and strengthen access to care across the region. Urology services for people in Longford and Westmeath are primarily provided through Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar, with patients referred to specialist tertiary centres when more complex care is required. A number of pathways are in place to improve access and reduce waiting times. They include referrals to other centres, where appropriate, and access to treatment through the National Treatment Purchase Fund, which is helping to ensure patients can receive care as quickly as possible based on their clinical needs. For people living in Longford and Westmeath, renal services are delivered through the wider midlands and Dublin hospital networks, with dialysis care provided through regional renal units and satellite dialysis centres, supported by specialist nephrology teams. These regional networks aim to support patients as close to home as possible while ensuring they have access to the specialist care they need. The midlands integrated healthcare area is currently examining capacity and clinical governance with the aim of improving networks of care. This will include long-term options for further renal satellite opportunities, taking account of patient population needs. That work is in its early stages. The Government is aware that there is limited access to GP services in some areas, including rural areas with ageing populations. I assure the Deputy that we are working to increase the number of practising GPs and improve access to services. Further to measures already taken to increase GP capacity and support GPs in rural areas, a strategic review of general practice is to be completed soon, which will consider additional methods to attract more GPs to rural and underserved areas. I understand that Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar has had to temporarily suspend its diabetes day service due to significant staffing shortages within its multidisciplinary diabetes team. The HSE has assured us that every effort is being made to restore the service to full capacity as soon as possible. The Deputy referred to dental services. A total of \u20ac18 million has been allocated via the budget to commence implementation of a two-year national oral health action plan. The top priority is to address current access challenges to dental services nationally, including in Longford-Westmeath. In child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, the priority is ensuring timely assessment and access based on clinical need. I have asked the HSE to provide the most recent Longford-Westmeath staffing and waiting list position, including the number of children waiting and the length of those waits. The provision of ophthalmology services is organised on a regional basis to ensure patients have access to appropriate specialist expertise, diagnostic facilities and treatment pathways. Since March 2026, a locum community ophthalmic physician is providing clinics in Mullingar and Longford and delivering care for both adult and paediatric patients. In addition, Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar is going through the process of approval to permanently fill the relevant post. Patients may still be required to travel to the Royal Victoria Eye and Ear Hospital in Dublin depending on the patient's presenting condition and the type of clinical assessment required. The HSE reports that in the Dublin and Midlands region, most patients are seen within 15 weeks and 90% of all patients are seen within 39 weeks. While the occupational therapy issue raised by the Deputy relates to the adult disability service, which falls under the remit of the Department of Children, Disability and Equality, the Minister for Health recognises that the current primary care therapy waiting lists and long waiting times for access to those services are unacceptable, particularly for children. The people of Longford and Westmeath deserve healthcare that is available as close to home as clinically possible. The Government will continue to work with the HSE to strengthen services, address vacancies and ensure that investment delivers meaningful improvements on care. Specifically on home care support, I am working with the HSE to look at the issue in terms of recruitment of staff."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Miche\u00e1l Carrigy","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","memberCode":"Miche\u00e1l-Carrigy.S.2020-03-30","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Miche\u00e1l Carrigy I thank the Minister of State. I will highlight a couple of points, particularly in relation to renal services. He said the aim of those services is \"to support patients as close to home as possible while ensuring they have access to the specialist care they need\". I looked for figures on the costs to the HSE of the taxis being provided to take patients from Longford to Tullamore for renal services. Currently, two of the staff working in the renal dialysis unit actually live in Longford and have to travel to Tullamore to provide those services. In 2025, there was a cost of \u20ac475,000 for taxis and from January to July of this year, the cost was \u20ac391,000. There is a ballpark cost heading for \u20ac500,000 each year to provide taxi services to bring people down to Longford, while there are staff based in Longford who are working in Tullamore. That service can be provided on St. Joseph's campus. I would like that to be considered seriously with regard to the diabetes clinic. It is only when a clinic like this closes that people who suffer from diabetes, particularly type 1 diabetes, come and explain the difference it makes in their lives. I cannot understand how we got to a situation where we do not have it staffed. This is not just for Longford; it is for the midlands. It has had a severe impact on the lives of patients within my local community and further afield. I ask that it be highlighted and identified. I have looked for meetings with the management of the hospital about it. This needs to be done immediately. On ophthalmology, it is stated that the regional hospital is going through a process of approval to permanently fill a post. We are short of staff to provide ophthalmology services, yet we are waiting for a post to be approved and advertised. There are a lot of issues but I have highlighted three significant ones that can be dealt with. Particularly with renal, there is going to be a saving of \u20ac500,000 in taxi services by basing it in another location and bringing it closer to the homes of people who are using it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell I again thank Deputy Carrigy for his contributions, which I will bring back to the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill. Ensuring people receive the right care in the right place at the right time remains a central commitment of Government under the Sl\u00e1intecare reform programme. The Government has made substantial investment in both Midland Regional Hospital in Tullamore and Regional Hospital Mullingar, the two acute hospitals serving communities across the midlands. More particularly, on the specific points the Deputy has raised, I will bring back his point on renal services to the Minister and the Department. I have no doubt he will raise the issues himself directly with the Minister and the HSE. On the adult diabetes multidisciplinary service in Regional Hospital Mullingar, this service has been temporarily suspended due to significant staffing shortages within its multidisciplinary diabetes team. As I said, the HSE has assured the Minister that every effort is being made to restore the service to full capacity as soon as possible. The Deputy made reference to ophthalmology. A locum community ophthalmic physician is providing clinics in Mullingar and delivering care for both adult and paediatric patients. In addition, Regional Hospital Mullingar is going through the process of approval to permanently fill this post. All the relevant and important points the Deputy makes in respect of the delivery of health services in Longford-Westmeath are valid. The Minister for Health recognises the concerns raised by the Deputy and remains committed to working with the HSE to address vacancies, build sustainable capacity and improve co-ordination across hospital and community services. The Government will continue to build on the progress made in Tullamore and Mullingar with a clear focus on ensuring that investment delivers meaningful, lasting improvements for patients throughout Longford and Westmeath. I will bring the points raised by the Deputy back to the Minister. I have already spoken to the Deputy about delivery of home support hours for the people of Longford-Westmeath. It is something I have committed to working on with the HSE, the Deputy and his colleagues at local level."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Health Services"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_42","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Hospital Overcrowding","counts":{"speechCount":6,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_40","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_42","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maurice Quinlivan As the Minister of State is aware, the mid-west region has been underfunded for decades by successive governments. We are now left cruelly exposed as winter approaches and the hands and tools of staff who need to deliver vital services are tied. The Minister of State will be aware that the HSE met with local representatives from Limerick, Clare and Tipperary and what it told us was stark. The feedback from the briefing yesterday was beyond concerning. They presented the public representatives, including myself, with a situation of impending catastrophe, with a strong suggestion that this winter there is a high chance of avoidable deaths at University Hospital Limerick. They do not say that lightly. They outlined that they are expecting up to 400 presentations at the UHL emergency department every single day of the winter, with presentations expected to exceed 102,000 people by the end of 2026. These are incredible figures. UHL is at 125% capacity already and simply cannot deal with the number of people presenting there. We are utterly exposed come wintertime. The HSE outlined how, at the same hospital, very few elective surgeries are taking place because it does not have the capacity or staff. In the 21st century, to have a hospital that caters for such a large population suspending necessary procedures is outrageous. The issue of overcrowding and capacity remains a significant concern for staff and patients. Overcrowding and capacity challenges have been found to be partly responsible for numerous deaths at the hospital in recent years, as the Minister of State knows. The present situation is a risk to patients and causes massive stress for staff. Both Fine Gael and Fianna F\u00e1il have failed to take any meaningful action on the issue of overcrowding. Indeed, with members of those parties as Minister for Health the issue has got worse, not better. This is not bluster - it is the sad reality. The numbers are not coming down in any significant way. In 2021, for instance, 12,106 people were on trolleys, while last year 22,473 people were treated on trolleys in hospital corridors. I acknowledge that this is a slight reduction on the record high of 23,202 patients on trolleys in 2024. However, the HSE in the mid-west has not received any additional staff since late June and many vacancies remain unfilled across the service. The HSE spoke of a dire need for acute beds. If we were to triage our health service in different regions, it is fair to say that healthcare in the mid-west would be in need of immediate resuscitation. The tools and long-term solutions were presented to the Government over a year ago. They were presented in the three recommendations of the HIQA report on emergency care in the mid-west region. Those recommendations, which the Government has committed to implementing, are: the significant expansion of acute inpatient beds at Dooradoyle; extending the UHL campus by adding a second site nearby; and developing a new hospital in the mid-west region featuring a second emergency department. A year later, we still have no clarity as to whether we will even get a second hospital with acute beds. This is a dereliction of duty. Of the three recommendations, the establishment of a new hospital in the mid-west offers the best hope long-term to ending the deplorable state of emergency care in the mid-west. This is a long-term fix. However, we urgently need to see a fix for the here and now. We have no confirmation of any new hospital acute beds being delivered. The Minister for Health should hold an immediate meeting with the HSE to address this looming crisis in our region. We need a proper plan for the coming winter. We are all deeply concerned that this winter will be catastrophic for our region. To implement the HIQA recommendations, we need a medium-term plan for three to five years. Like most, I am not sure what that plan is or what is going to happen. The Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, needs to intervene personally. She should meet with the HSE as a matter of urgency. She should also meet and update Oireachtas Members in the mid-west region on her plans for the region on a regular basis."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to discuss the actions taken since the HIQA review on urgent and emergency healthcare services in the mid-west region. I am taking this issue on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill. I acknowledge the issues that Deputy Quinlivan is raising on behalf of his constituents, who are also constituents of mine. I am very aware of the issues he is raising. I want first to acknowledge that there are significant challenges at the UHL site which are having an impact on patients, staff and families in Limerick and the mid-west region. I also recognise the dedicated and hardworking staff at UHL and throughout the health services in the region, who do their very best for their patients. HIQA did identify a significant inpatient bed capacity deficit as the central challenge facing urgent and emergency care in the region. The Minister for Health remains focused on ensuring that the recommendations arising from HIQA\u2019s assessment are implemented in a timely and co-ordinated manner. The report sets out three potential options, as Deputy Quinlivan has already indicated. Option A is to expand capacity at the UHL site in Dooradoyle; option B is to extend the UHL campus to include an additional adjacent site; and option C is to develop a model 3 hospital in the mid-west, providing a second emergency department. The Minister for Health accepted this advice and the Government approved a blended approach to progressing all options in December 2025. At UHL, work is already under way on option A. Two new 16-bed units are now in place, alongside the new 96-bed block which opened last October. A further 16-bed unit is due for completion by the end of this year. Contracts for a second 96-bed block were recently awarded and a design team has been appointed for a further 66-bed block. This investment is not just for Dooradoyle. Capacity across Ennis, St. John's and Nenagh hospitals will also be expanded, with an additional 114 beds planned by 2031. Overall, 420 additional beds are planned for delivery across the mid-west between 2024 and 2031. In March, acting on the direction from the Minister for Health, the HSE secured a 44-acre site in Raheen, just 2 km from University Hospital Limerick, to progress option B. This site provides a significant opportunity to provide meaningful additional capacity and health services to the people of Limerick, Clare and Tipperary in the mid-west. Importantly, the site sits on a direct corridor linking it to the main hospital campus, providing strong connectivity and operational advantages for future service integration. The location represents a unique strategic opportunity. It provides sufficient scale to accommodate significant future healthcare development while maintaining close operational links with the existing model 4 hospital. It creates the opportunity for a campus approach to healthcare provision, allowing services to be expanded and reconfigured in a way that supports both immediate needs and long-term growth across the region. Securing the site was an essential first step. The focus now is turning to the next phase. To that end, the Minister established the mid-west health planning board in July 2026 and appointed Mr. Sean O'Driscoll as chair. The board held its first formal meeting in September and is overseeing the development of a service and infrastructure plan for the region, to be finalised within nine months. That plan will inform decisions on the services and facilities to be developed at Raheen and across the wider mid-west. The HSE will subsequently develop an implementation plan to advance the board's work. The challenges facing the mid-west will not be resolved by one intervention alone. However, we are acting on HIQA's advice by expanding capacity across the region, securing the Raheen site for future development and developing a strategic plan for the longer term. The Minister for Health remains firmly focused on delivering these measures, so that patients throughout the mid-west can access safe, high-quality and reliable healthcare. I have run out of time but I will address the winter plan after Deputy Quinlivan's next contribution."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maurice Quinlivan I thank the Minister of State. We all agree that more than one intervention is needed. Where is the urgency? I did not hear any urgency in the Minister of State's response. I am deeply concerned about the feedback I received from the HSE yesterday, and I put my concerns on record. The Government should not say in January or February that it was not aware of the scale of the crisis or the challenges our hospitals face. Will the Government remove barriers and instruct the HSE to allow the University Limerick Hospitals Group to employ the additional staff it urgently needs? I understand there are also 80 private beds readily available in a particular area. Will the Government commit to allow UL Hospitals Group to buy these as an interim measure as we work our way through the imminent winter? The situation at University Hospital Limerick is well documented. I can tell the Minister of State from experience that the conditions many face at the hospital are devoid of dignity and privacy. Too often, it is our most senior citizens left in the corridors. These are people who built our State, worked hard and raised families. In their latter years, they should be able to expect treatment and comfort when they go to their local hospital. I would like to say a bit about the staff. They are often forgotten about when we rightly focus on patient care. The healthcare staff on the ground, the porters and doctors, do their best for patients. They do not want patients in hospital corridors. It impedes their work. I was proud to stand in solidarity with healthcare workers last Wednesday as they took industrial action. The mid-west health planning board has not even decided that the mid-west needs another hospital. That is outrageous; it is bonkers. I see no plans in the here and now. I urge the Minister of State to use all the resources available to him to ensure all necessary resources are in place at University Hospital Limerick for this winter. The Department should allow the vacant jobs to be filled. As I said, no posts have been filled in our hospital since June. There is a blockage on filling them. Will the Minister fast-track the delivery and implementation of all three HIQA recommendations and immediately confirm that the mid-west will be getting new acute beds and a new hospital? That has not been confirmed yet and the new board does not seem to know what it is doing in that regard. We have zero time to lose on this. We need an intervention from the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill. She needs to meet all of us but she needs to meet the HSE as a matter of urgency. Winter is coming and we are all deeply concerned. Every Member of the D\u00e1il and Seanad who attended the meeting was really upset when they came out of it."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell I thank Deputy Quinlivan again for his contribution. As stated earlier, I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill. The Minister for Health fully recognises the significant and sustained pressure on urgent and emergency care across the mid-west, particularly at University Hospital Limerick, and acknowledges, as I do, the fantastic work of the staff. It is obviously all about the care of the people in the mid-west. There has been investment in increasing the capacity of the region. In addition, we are looking at increasing patient flow, supporting timely discharge and maximising available hospital and community capacity. This includes increased access to diagnostics, step-down capacity and virtual wards to enhance community care. We need stronger pathways across acute, community and step-down care, helping people avoid hospital and to appropriately leave hospital safely once acute care is completed. To assist with this, following a recent tender competition by the HSE, a bespoke national panel arrangement was established for the provision of short-stay therapeutic beds, with 125 beds available to the mid-west region. The range of supports includes access to community-based, therapy supported beds for acute hospital patients, with hospitals approaching the nearest panel provider subject to availability. I will make two further points. The mid-west planning board should be allowed to do its work. It is due to report to the Minister. On the point the Deputy made about the winter plans, the Department and the Minister have been engaging with the HSE senior leadership team-----"},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Maurice Quinlivan","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","memberCode":"Maurice-Quinlivan.D.2016-10-03","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Maurice Quinlivan Will there be acute beds? We do not know."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell These are short-stay therapeutic beds. They are step-down beds, and 125 such beds will be available in the mid-west region. The Minister for Health, with her team of senior Department officials, will engage with the senior leadership team in the HSE on the winter plans more generally, with an emphasis, as would be expected, on the issues in University Hospital Limerick and the mid-west. We remain very much committed to increasing capacity, as required and as recommended under the HIQA report, while also looking at immediate issues in the here and now for winter planning for University Hospital Limerick and the mid-west region overall."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Hospital Overcrowding"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_43","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Local Authorities","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_40","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_43","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in Following the recent local authority rent chaos in County Wicklow, when rents rocketed by more than 100% for some pensioners in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, will the Minister of State examine the introduction of a more uniform State-wide differential rent scheme, one that shows greater consistency and fairness in local authorities across the State? I know his brief is older people and housing but is the Minister of State satisfied that the operation of the new Wicklow differential rent scheme is equitable and that the rents are being assessed and calculated correctly? We have heard many harrowing cases, including this week when RT\u00c9 looked back on the chaos in Wicklow. I heard the story of a distraught pensioner who looks after his severely ill wife. He was in tears wondering how he would be able to continue to look after her because he said he simply could not afford the rent increase. Another pensioner said she would have to cut out things such as going for a coffee and a scone once a week or occasionally for a breakfast. This, she said, will no longer happen after the rent increase comes in on 7 November. I also listened to an interview with a young woman on RT\u00c9 who said she had been working for 28 years and was thinking of giving up her job. She received a rent increase of 110%. I know some renters received rent increases of up to 200%. The young woman said she would be better off giving up her job and going on the dole as she would then be on a reduced rent and would have some extra benefits. That should never happen. Does the Minister of State think this scheme is equitable and will the Government review it? It is not consistent across the State."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell I thank Deputy \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in for raising this Topical Issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne. The Housing Act 1966 provides for the charging of rent by local authorities on social housing tenancies. Rents are based on household income levels, with those on lower incomes paying lower rents. This system is know as the differential rents system. It is a critical piece of the State's welfare apparatus, subsidising housing costs and supporting households who cannot meet their long-term accommodation needs from their own resources. The making or amending of such rent schemes is a matter for local authorities within broad principles set out by my Department, including that rent levels should be based on income and reflect tenants' ability to pay. My Department understands that Wicklow County Council, which the Deputy name-checked, recently undertook a review of its differential rent scheme. Wicklow County Council operated two differential rent schemes in the county, dated February 2014. One was in the Bray municipal district area and the other was in the remainder of the county. The amalgamation of both schemes had been a long-term objective since the abolition of the town council in 2014. The new housing plan, Delivering Homes, Building Communities, commits to reviewing the rents paid by social housing tenants with a view to introducing a national scheme that provides an equitable system of rents which is fair, progressive and sustainable and which protects the most vulnerable. It builds on work and analysis my Department has been undertaking which identified that the current differential rents system varies significantly across the 31 local authorities. Rents are based on household income but the amounts charged and the approaches taken in calculating rent differ. Proposals will be submitted for consideration in the second half of 2026. We are, of course, now in the second half of 2026. Any decision to implement a standardised national rents framework will be considered thereafter."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","memberCode":"Fionnt\u00e1n-\u00d3-S\u00failleabh\u00e1in.D.2024-11-29","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Fionnt\u00e1n \u00d3 S\u00failleabh\u00e1in I thank the Minister of State. I welcome any plans for standardisation that will make it fairer across the State. What we have at the moment is not a fair system. There is a considerable discrepancy between different local authorities. Two members of the same family with the same income might be living either side of a county boundary and they could be paying completely different rents. That should not be happening. What is the justification for the 3% surcharge applied to Wicklow County Council tenants? Will the Department review such additional charges? They are not fair. I have met many people across Wicklow, especially south Wicklow, from Aughrim, Tinahely, Shillelagh, Carnew, Arklow and Rathdrum, who are not looking forward to the winter because of the rent hikes. We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis and many of those people are giving up on essentials. They are topping up their oil for the winter at the moment and many of them are wondering how they are going to cope. They are under significant pressure. I ask the Minister of State to review the scheme."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell I again thank the Deputy for raising the issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne. My Department has continued to work on reviewing the current differential rents system with a view to developing a standardised national framework. It is carrying out further research to identify the optimal model for such a framework that will be equitable, progressive and sustainable, while protecting those on low incomes. It is also essential that any reform produces a sustainable rent system that will contribute to the needs of the local authorities in terms of maintenance and management of their social housing stock. The Government priority is the delivery of social housing. It is, therefore, more important that social housing supports are targeted appropriately and managed efficiently. Central to this is ensuring that the rent charged is appropriate to household means, and while the current system has its strengths in maximising resources to meet demand, it is also characterised by inequity. The system of differential rents is an important element of the State's social housing system. It will receive further careful scrutiny with the intention that proposals will be submitted for consideration in due course."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Local Authorities"}]}},{"debateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_44","debateType":"debate","bill":null,"showAs":"Special Amenity Areas","counts":{"speechCount":4,"speakerCount":2},"parentDebateSection":{"uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/akn\/ie\/debateRecord\/dail\/2026-10-20\/debate\/dbsect_40","formats":{"pdf":null,"xml":null},"debateSectionId":"dbsect_40","showAs":"Saincheisteanna Tr\u00e1th\u00fala - Topical Issue Debate"},"containsDebate":true,"debateSectionId":"dbsect_44","speakers":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null}},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null}}],"formats":{"xml":null,"pdf":null},"text":[{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty Gabhaim m\u00edle bu\u00edochas leis an Aire St\u00e1it, an Teachta O\u2019Donnell, as a bheith anseo anocht in \u00e1it an Aire at\u00e1 freagrach as seo. I thank the Minister of State. It is now past midnight but I felt compelled to put this item down for discussion, even at this late stage, because it is topical. We have just had a major vote in respect of the lands at St. Edmundsbury as part of a Government-initiated development plan review process, which ended in my area this week. There is now an opportunity to move forward. In this context, I am submitting a formal request to the Minister of State to instruct South Dublin County Council to extend the special amenity area order, SAAO, on the existing lands at St. Edmundsbury, Woodville, bringing them all the way up to the Lucan Road. To put it in context, we have faced multiple attempts to rezone these lands. In 1998, there was a close vote, 14 to 12. It was only 2,000 people coming out in a referendum that stopped the lands being rezoned for housing back then. Years later, a delegation from South Dublin County Council came to the then Minister for the environment, John Gormley, seeking so-called affordable housing on the land. I was with the Minister at the time. The representatives of the council were suggesting this would be a great place to put housing. It was not quite affordable. They were well over the market rates. We have seen continuous efforts since then. We had the 2016 development plan process and the 2022 development plan process. Now, under the current Government's requests to rezone additional lands throughout south Dublin, St. Edmundsbury is under threat once again. The area in Lucan, which the Minister of State might not know, is unique and irreplaceable. It possesses immense biodiversity and outstanding natural beauty. It serves as a natural entrance to the already protected valley below. It is of such exceptional amenity and recreational value that it has to continue to be zoned as an amenity, but given the continuous threats it has faced, this land will always be at risk until it is a regional or national park or unless the SAAO is extended. In the current proposals, a unanimous number of councillors twice said \"No\" to rezoning, pleading for these lands to be kept for amenity. Almost 2,000 members of the public did likewise. Unfortunately, South Dublin County Council and Fingal County Council have not used their mandates to work together constructively towards a Liffey Valley park, as originally suggested in the 2006 programme, along with Kildare, Dublin city and the OPW. Fingal County Council and South Dublin County Council have rarely met over the past 20 years. It has met an average of approximately 1.5 times per council term. The most recent occasion on which the Liffey Valley special amenity area order monitoring committee met was in January 2025. Our shared long-term vision is to see a comprehensive Liffey Valley regional or national park, as I said, stretching from Islandbridge, through Palmerstown, Chapelizod, Lucan and Leixlip and on to Celbridge. In the short term, our immediate priority has to be to protect St. Edmundsbury and Woodville lands by ensuring they can never again come under this type of threat. The only way to achieve this is by extending the special area designation. This power rests in ministerial hands under the Planning Act to instruct South Dublin County Council to initiate or expand the SAAO. Section 202(2) of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, allows the Minister to make a direction to a planning authority based on natural beauty or recreational value, etc. Under other legislation, such as section 266(2) of the of the Planning and Development Act 2024, the Minister can direct a council to draft an SAAO. It is in the Government's hands and I am urging action to be taken in this regard."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter and providing me with an opportunity to update the House. I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne. The making, amendment, review or revocation of a special amenity area order is a matter governed by sections 202 and 203 of the Planning and Development Act 2000. Prior to the enactment of the Act of 2000, the relevant provisions in relation to areas of special amenity were contained in sections 42 and 43 of the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act 1963. The provisions referenced, which are contained in the Planning and Development Act 2024, are yet to be commenced. The Dublin County Council Lucan Bridge to Palmerstown special amenity area order was confirmed with a minor modification by the Minister for the environment in March 1990, further to section 43 of the Act of 1963. It is to that matter that SI 59 of 1990 refers. Section 203 of the Act of 2000 states \"Any reference in ... [any enactment] to a special amenity area order shall be construed as a reference to an order confirmed under this section\" of the Act of 2000. Accordingly, the provisions of the Act of 2000 apply to existing areas. An order may state the objective of the planning authority in respect of the preservation or enhancement of the character or special features of the area, including objectives for the prevention or limitation of development in the area. On 19 October, yesterday - or the day before yesterday, to be more precise - the elected members of South Dublin County Council made variation No. 2 to the south Dublin county development plan for 2022 to 2028 under section 58 of the Planning and Development Act 2024. The making of a variation to a development plan is a reserved function of the elected members. Like all variations to local authority development plans, variation No. 2 will now be assessed by the Office of the Planning Regulator under section 63 of the Act to evaluate whether it is materially consistent with national and regional planning policy requirements. The Office of the Planning Regulator, OPR, is statutorily independent of the Minister in the performance of its plan evaluation and assessment function in accordance with section 538 of the Act. Cognisant of this fact, and in light of this ongoing statutory plan assessment process, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on specific lands which formed part of the variation."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Paul Nicholas Gogarty","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","memberCode":"Paul-Nicholas-Gogarty.D.2002-06-06","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty I thank the Minister of State. I am setting the ball rolling because if the planning regulator makes a recommendation that the lands should still be rezoned, the Minister reserves the absolute right to agree or disagree with that decision. Whether a decision is made in that regard or the lands are designated to stay as is, the Minister of State and his colleagues in Government - including Deputy Currie, who has raised it multiple times - will be totally aware of the long-standing desire for a Liffey Valley regional or national park and for those lands to be protected. When the appropriate time comes to make a decision on that, as it will in the next number of weeks, I want the Minister of State, the Minister and the other line Ministers to be absolutely aware of the groundswell of feeling on this issue. To have a Liffey Valley regional or national park as part of a strategy, you have to sustain the integrity of the entrance to the existing protected area. In that context, the only way that is going to happens is if the special amenity area order is extended to the roadway. I am putting it out there so that when the appropriate time comes, which will be in a matter of weeks, the Minister will be fully aware of all the facts. We know the elected members have, on two occasions in this iteration, unanimously recommended that the lands stay zoned as amenity. We know there is a huge groundswell out there to keep it this way with regard to public participation. It was one of the biggest submissions made in any of these consultation processes and we also know this has been going on since 2006, when we had the original discussions. It is not something that has just come up but it is something that is going to come up again and again until the message finally gets to those in Government, and possibly the landowners as well, that these are particularly special lands. They supersede any other housing requirements as part of a wider context. I hope that measure will be shared loud and clear."},{"speaker":{"showAs":"Kieran O'Donnell","uri":"https:\/\/data.oireachtas.ie\/ie\/oireachtas\/member\/id\/Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","memberCode":"Kieran-O'Donnell.D.2007-06-14","role":null},"textType":"speech","text":"Deputy Kieran O'Donnell I again thank Deputy Gogarty for raising this important issue in the House, which I am taking behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne. In conclusion, sections 202 and 203 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 set out a statutory process for the making, amendment, review or revocation of a special amenity area order. The provisions referenced, which are contained in the Planning and Development Act 2024, are due to be commenced later this year. In the interim, the provisions of the 2000 Act continue to apply. Variation No. 2 to the south Dublin county development plan is currently being assessed by the Office of the Planning Regulator, as already referenced, under section 63 of the Act to evaluate whether it is materially consistent with national and regional planning policy requirements. In light of the ongoing statutory plan assessment process and the independence of the OPR, it would not, as I stated earlier, be appropriate for me to comment at this time on specific lands that form part of the variation in question."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"Cuireadh an D\u00e1il ar athl\u00f3 ar 12.24 a.m. go dt\u00ed 9 a.m., D\u00e9 C\u00e9adaoin, an 21 Deireadh F\u00f3mhair 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"summary","text":"The D\u00e1il adjourned at 12.24 a.m. until 9 a.m. on Wednesday, 21 October 2026."},{"speaker":null,"textType":"heading","text":"Special Amenity Areas"}]}}]},"contextDate":"2026-10-20"}]}